February 23, 2017 
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(and risk your app getting killed if it hogs too much resources)[18:03:54] *** afl_ext <afl_ext!~afl_ext3@acib108.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl> has joined ##vulkan[18:03:54] *** afl_ext <afl_ext!~afl_ext3@acib108.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl> has quit IRC (Changing host)[18:03:54] *** afl_ext <afl_ext!~afl_ext3@unaffiliated/afl-ext/x-2796036> has joined ##vulkan[18:04:25] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7nei0a9vvjq37a.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[18:04:38] <maxrk> well I did try that, but testing that on a Nvidia shield Tablet led to acquireNextImage crashing ...[18:04:52] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7nei0a9vvjq37a.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined ##vulkan[18:05:07] <maxrk> And the lack of documentation on that issue also kinda makes me suspicious[18:05:35] <exDM69> maxrk: you re-created the swapchain?[18:05:38] <exDM69> but not the device?[18:05:51] <maxrk> yes[18:06:27] <ratchetfreak> if device is not lost then I would assume that everything is still in place[18:06:39] *** mrEt <mrEt!581af01d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.26.240.29> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[18:06:42] <ratchetfreak> the swapchain can be lost seperately[18:06:49] <exDM69> maxrk: post a thread to devtalk.nvidia.com vulkan forum, then give me the link and I'll make sure the appropriate people look at it[18:06:59] <exDM69> maxrk: did you check that you're not getting DEVICE_LOST from anywhere?[18:12:15] <maxrk> pretty sure i did not get DEVICE_LOST. I did also destroy and recreate the Surface, is that correct?[18:12:45] <ratchetfreak> youprobably don't need to do that[18:13:23] <exDM69> maxrk: "the surface"?[18:13:34] <exDM69> what Surface are you referring to?[18:13:52] <exDM69> the VkSurface object you get from Android WSI?[18:14:09] <maxrk> yes[18:14:22] <exDM69> you will need to recreate that and the swapchain because your window (ANativeWindow) has changed[18:18:55] *** Matthijs <Matthijs!~quassel@unaffiliated/matthijs> has joined ##vulkan[18:19:36] *** ravior <ravior!~crapitea@5-13-128-156.residential.rdsnet.ro> has joined ##vulkan[18:25:10] *** sla_ro|master <sla_ro|master!~sla.ro@95.76.45.217> has joined ##vulkan[18:28:35] *** Matthijs <Matthijs!~quassel@unaffiliated/matthijs> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[18:32:18] *** early <early!~early@68.ip-149-56-14.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[18:34:01] *** HuntsMan <HuntsMan!~hunts@dhcp9.eps.hw.ac.uk> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)[18:34:54] *** early <early!~early@68.ip-149-56-14.net> has joined ##vulkan[18:35:27] *** Guest40893 <Guest40893!~john@host86-147-123-91.range86-147.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[18:36:15] *** SHC <SHC!~quassel@117.204.33.135> has joined ##vulkan[18:37:57] *** [xyzzy] <[xyzzy]!~xyzzy@ip68-229-227-253.ok.ok.cox.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[18:39:22] <maxrk> i made the forum thread with only my questions for now https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/995823/vulkan/android-suspend-and-resume-behaviour/ , tomorrow i can update that with the approaches I tried already.[18:46:26] *** Guest44283 <Guest44283!~john@host86-147-123-91.range86-147.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##vulkan[18:51:24] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7nei0a9vvjq37a.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[18:51:50] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7nei0a9vvjq37a.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined ##vulkan[19:01:05] *** [xyzzy] <[xyzzy]!~xyzzy@ip68-229-227-253.ok.ok.cox.net> has joined ##vulkan[19:02:45] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yanielkolm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-papkfvjgpjyirkgl> has joined ##vulkan[19:04:21] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has joined ##vulkan[19:07:21] *** [xyzzy] <[xyzzy]!~xyzzy@ip68-229-227-253.ok.ok.cox.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[19:07:53] *** [xyzzy] <[xyzzy]!~xyzzy@ip68-229-227-253.ok.ok.cox.net> has joined ##vulkan[19:15:07] *** nsf <nsf!~nsf@jiss.convex.ru> has joined ##vulkan[19:16:28] *** w-t-h_ <w-t-h_!~chatzilla@72.67.52.110> has joined ##vulkan[19:22:28] *** [xyzzy] <[xyzzy]!~xyzzy@ip68-229-227-253.ok.ok.cox.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[19:23:23] *** HuntsMan <HuntsMan!~hunts@cpc104822-sgyl39-2-0-cust136.18-2.cable.virginm.net> has joined ##vulkan[19:25:25] <Ralith> am I correct in understanding that the benefit of tesselation in a LoD'd heightmap terrain renderer is reducing the amount of draw commands and associated CPU work by a constant factor?[19:26:35] <ratchetfreak> it reduces the amount of primitives getting pushed through the rasterizer[19:26:55] <ratchetfreak> very small triangles aren't good for fragment throughput[19:30:28] *** doomlord <doomlord!~textual@host86-176-242-250.range86-176.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[19:31:28] *** maxrk <maxrk!d4a20611@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.162.6.17> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[19:34:01] *** TheSilentLink <TheSilentLink!~TheSilent@unaffiliated/thesilentlink> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[19:35:01] *** doomlord <doomlord!~textual@host86-176-242-250.range86-176.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##vulkan[19:45:29] *** LanDi <LanDi!~landi@179.178.140.245> has joined ##vulkan[19:46:45] *** [xyzzy] <[xyzzy]!~xyzzy@2600:8803:e400:d600:8125:535a:a187:8208> has joined ##vulkan[19:58:46] <fazias> basic: you want to make sure every triangle you draw, contributes to the end image. It might happen that they are too small and don't contribute anything, wasting perf.[19:59:27] <fazias> also tiny triangles that fill only one pixel are wasting perf also, ideally you would want to have atleast few pixels of coverage per triangle.[20:01:32] <fazias> good test is to have wireframe as debug mode, where you should see black holes and not solid ground/mesh.[20:13:02] *** LanDi <LanDi!~landi@179.178.140.245> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[20:14:55] *** GMpow2_3 is now known as GMpow2[20:18:59] <Ralith> ratchetfreak, fazias: but you can accomplish both those things just fine without tesselation[20:19:30] <fazias> Ralith: I didn't say a word about tesselation ;)[20:19:53] <Ralith> just by drawing geometry with different worldspace vertex densities directly[20:20:17] <ratchetfreak> but with tesellation there is less VBO data to keep[20:20:35] <ratchetfreak> and per patch dynamic changing of lod[20:20:44] <Ralith> in any case where you could tesselate a quad, you could have instead drawn a subdivided quad in the first place; since a heightmap terrain LoD system needs to draw multiple scales of tiles at different distances anyway, all tesselation is buying you there is the ability to move some of that work to the GPU[20:20:59] <Cheery> fazias: they waste perf, but surely you can use degenerate triangles to remove any triangle without shifting remaining ones to take its place?[20:21:15] <Ralith> at the cost of increased implementation complexity[20:23:10] <fazias> trianglestrips?[20:23:28] <Ralith> you seemed to be responding to my question, which asked why tesselation is useful for that[20:24:03] <ratchetfreak> tesselation does stem from an era where memory and compute weren't as cheap as they are now[20:24:13] <Ralith> ratchetfreak: the amount of vertex data seems like a red herring; you only need one subdivided quad and can tile it as necessary[20:24:44] <ratchetfreak> that means instancing unless you want a drawcall per quad[20:24:48] <Ralith> and you achieve dynamic LoD regardless by scaling and using more or fewer instances of that quad[20:25:14] <ratchetfreak> but then you end up doing a lot of cpu work to get the LoD tuning to the gpu[20:25:25] *** SHC <SHC!~quassel@117.204.33.135> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[20:25:25] <ratchetfreak> with tesselation all the tuning is done in the control shader[20:25:55] <fazias> can't you just move the lod decision to gpu ;)[20:25:57] *** jsgrant_ <jsgrant_!~jsgrant@97-85-249-106.static.stls.mo.charter.com> has joined ##vulkan[20:26:16] <Ralith> right, so my hypothesis is valid, then? you're just moving some of the CPU LoD work to the GPU[20:26:33] <fazias> and I mean more of the compute side[20:26:35] <fazias> no tesselation[20:26:38] <ratchetfreak> and gpu is good at that kind of parallizable work[20:26:56] <ratchetfreak> better than the cpu at any rate[20:26:59] * Ralith nod[20:27:21] <Ralith> it's not embarassingly parallel on the scale of rasterization, but nonetheless[20:27:40] <ratchetfreak> the control shader is fully parallel[20:27:55] <ratchetfreak> each of the eval invocations is paralle[20:28:30] <Ralith> I suppose it's not hard to end up with many thousands of separate invocations[20:28:33] <ratchetfreak> the (fixed function) tesselating step and allocating the buffer is the only serial part in there[20:28:57] <ratchetfreak> but that can be reduced to an add[20:29:25] *** jsgrant_ <jsgrant_!~jsgrant@97-85-249-106.static.stls.mo.charter.com> has quit IRC (Quit: jsgrant_)[20:30:04] *** jsgrant_ <jsgrant_!~jsgrant@97-85-249-106.static.stls.mo.charter.com> has joined ##vulkan[20:30:28] <Ralith> of course you have to upload enough heightmap resolution to handle the upper bound of tesselation for any given tile, vs. only needing exactly the data involved[20:30:56] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7nei0a9vvjq37a.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[20:31:22] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7nei0a9vvjq37a.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined ##vulkan[20:31:53] *** Matthijs <Matthijs!~quassel@unaffiliated/matthijs> has joined ##vulkan[20:32:03] <Ralith> but that's reasonably bounded and you can probably use that data for other fun stuff like computing per-fragment normals[20:32:14] *** jsgrant_ <jsgrant_!~jsgrant@97-85-249-106.static.stls.mo.charter.com> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[20:33:09] *** jsgrant_ <jsgrant_!~jsgrant@97-85-249-106.static.stls.mo.charter.com> has joined ##vulkan[20:34:33] *** Vtec234 <Vtec234!~Vtec234@fez.tardis.ed.ac.uk> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)[20:35:24] *** jsgrant_ <jsgrant_!~jsgrant@97-85-249-106.static.stls.mo.charter.com> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[20:42:13] *** uuppi <uuppi!5b987b47@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.152.123.71> has joined ##vulkan[20:42:48] <uuppi> Hello[20:42:56] <Cheery> hi[20:44:08] *** echotangoecho <echotangoecho!~echotango@dhcp-089-098-177-067.chello.nl> has joined ##vulkan[20:46:55] *** bjz <bjz!~bjz@14-201-122-110.static.tpgi.com.au> has joined ##vulkan[20:47:45] *** jsgrant- <jsgrant-!~jsgrant@97-85-249-106.static.stls.mo.charter.com> has joined ##vulkan[20:47:46] *** Matthijs <Matthijs!~quassel@unaffiliated/matthijs> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[20:49:37] *** doomlord <doomlord!~textual@host86-176-242-250.range86-176.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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