November 20, 2014 
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November 20, 2014 [00:13:23] *** WooShell has quit IRC[00:28:11] *** dtcrshr has quit IRC[00:32:17] *** droid2727 has quit IRC[00:36:42] *** droid2727 has joined #scummvm[00:36:43] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o droid2727[00:45:35] <m_kiewitz> droid2727: how did the realm work? did sierra implement tcp/ip into sci?[00:45:49] <droid2727> a kNetwork kernel function[00:45:59] <droid2727> the details beyond that, I don't know[00:46:48] <droid2727> m_kiewitz: poke me in about an hour and I'll dig up my detection patch with the demo versions[00:46:50] <m_kiewitz> wait, on realmserver.com it says DirectX 7.1 required o_O[00:46:53] *** _marc` has quit IRC[00:47:02] <droid2727> probably for audio[00:47:09] <m_kiewitz> right "DirectX version 7 or greater is required to provide sound support to The Realm."[00:47:19] <m_kiewitz> did the windows sci need this?[00:47:25] <droid2727> It doesn't use kSound or kAudio, but kPlayMidi and kPlayWav[00:47:29] <m_kiewitz> argh[00:47:49] <m_kiewitz> is it free to download? Or can you buy it somewhere?[00:47:54] <m_kiewitz> are servers still running?[00:48:02] <droid2727> the demo is free, not the full one[00:48:17] <droid2727> servers are still running, yes[00:48:35] <m_kiewitz> how the hell did they do that? Did activision take them over?[00:48:57] <m_kiewitz> although would that even count as adventure game anymore?[00:49:08] <m_kiewitz> it's literally a MMORPG[00:49:19] <droid2727> happened before activision[00:49:45] <droid2727> presumably their agreement with Sierra was in perpetuity, but I'm just guessing[00:50:02] <m_kiewitz> so another company takes care of the servers? but who pays for it?[00:50:21] <droid2727> those playing the full version pay for it[00:50:25] <m_kiewitz> does it require a monthly fee?[00:50:58] <m_kiewitz> ah right[00:50:59] <droid2727> http://secure.realmserver.com/cgi-bin/subscribe.exe[00:50:59] <m_kiewitz> http://secure.realmserver.com/cgi-bin/subscribe.exe[00:51:01] <m_kiewitz> :P[00:51:12] <m_kiewitz> "Credit Card (Free Trial or $6.99/month or $69.99/year)"[00:51:22] <m_kiewitz> my interest vanished[00:52:22] <m_kiewitz> well at least it's still available. If Activision would have taken "care" of it, the servers would already be down[00:52:36] <droid2727> I think the engine stuff is a curiosity, but not the game itself[00:52:39] <m_kiewitz> there can't be that many players anymore[00:53:01] <m_kiewitz> well if we want to get it working, then I guess we would have to pay the subscription :P[00:53:32] <droid2727> or write our own server implementation[00:54:09] <droid2727> same goes for INN aka LSCI[01:01:57] <m_kiewitz> I think I looked into that INN stuff and part of it were actual programs, not scripts[01:03:00] <droid2727> some of it[01:03:17] <droid2727> like the red baron game, yeah[01:03:32] <droid2727> all the cool stuff isn't lsci, basically :P[01:04:34] <m_kiewitz> so it's kinda useless :P[01:06:18] <droid2727> alas[01:19:47] *** Javacat has quit IRC[01:23:09] *** DOSFreak has joined #scummvm[01:26:14] *** m_kiewitz has quit IRC[01:27:05] *** D0SFreak has quit IRC[01:30:32] *** DOSFreak has quit IRC[01:30:41] *** D0SFreak has joined #scummvm[01:31:48] *** NotJavacat has joined #scummvm[01:32:02] *** NotJavacat is now known as Javacat[01:58:11] *** SylvainTV has quit IRC[01:58:26] *** SylvainTV has joined #scummvm[01:58:26] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o SylvainTV[02:00:39] *** sact has quit IRC[02:01:40] *** sact has joined #scummvm[02:04:47] *** RUBICN64 has joined #scummvm[02:05:32] *** RUBICN64 has joined #scummvm[02:11:28] *** Quatroking has quit IRC[02:12:34] *** D0SFreak has quit IRC[02:24:53] *** sirlemonhead has left #scummvm[02:28:11] *** Javacat has quit IRC[02:37:32] *** Jon_God has joined #scummvm[03:23:48] *** Vampire0_ has joined #scummvm[03:27:20] *** Vampire0 has quit IRC[03:29:34] *** RUBICN64 has quit IRC[03:40:17] *** Dominus has quit IRC[03:41:06] *** Dominus has joined #scummvm[03:50:04] *** LordHoto has joined #scummvm[03:50:04] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o LordHoto[04:38:12] *** SylvainTV has quit IRC[06:02:22] *** Poly-C has joined #scummvm[06:04:47] *** Polynomial-C has quit IRC[10:44:57] *** echelog-1 has joined #scummvm[11:08:31] *** edheldil has quit IRC[11:09:30] *** edheldil has joined #scummvm[12:06:14] *** D0SFreak has joined #scummvm[12:50:41] *** SylvainTV has joined #scummvm[12:50:42] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o SylvainTV[13:01:38] *** Jon_God has quit IRC[13:25:19] *** Wishmaster has joined #scummvm[13:32:22] *** chkr has quit IRC[13:34:10] *** chkr has joined #scummvm[14:22:46] *** Sir_Burpalot has joined #scummvm[14:24:17] <Sir_Burpalot> How soon is ScummVM going to switch to SDL 2? SDL 1 has no Retina display support on OS X.[14:24:24] <Sir_Burpalot> Everything is rendered at half the native DPI and then upscaled.[14:27:55] <Sir_Burpalot> That's not much of an issue when you're playing a game in its native resolution, but as soon as you maximise the window (because fullscreen is broken) or turn on aspect ratio correction, things start to look ugly.[14:28:00] <droid2727> just add NSHighResolutionCapable to the plist[14:31:56] <Sir_Burpalot> Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, but it didn't help.[14:32:16] <somaen> Well, to be fair, that's not really the biggest issue with SDL1 on OS X[14:32:30] <somaen> Crashes when switching fullscreen/windowed is a bit worse[14:32:46] <somaen> But, the answer to your first question is: Not any time soon at all.[14:33:13] <droid2727> And never "switching" to SDL 2. Supporting it, eventually[14:33:22] <Sir_Burpalot> That's a shame. I wish someone would make a Boxer for ScummVM.[14:33:35] <somaen> Well, at some point SDL1 will get too old I guess[14:33:39] <somaen> seeing as it's unmaintained[14:33:51] <droid2727> It's a shame SDL2 made crazy decisions[14:34:06] <somaen> Well, that, and the fact that it's not really mature enough yet.[14:34:12] <Sir_Burpalot> SDL1 is already too old. It isn't just Apple computers that have high-DPI displays.[14:34:44] <somaen> aquadran tried to port ResidualVM to SDL2, IIRC OpenGL context creation was broken on OS X in SDL 2.[14:34:57] <somaen> Sir_Burpalot: Pfft, High-Dpi is just a lack of a new feature[14:35:08] <somaen> It's worse when things get obsoleted.[14:35:37] <somaen> Like when OS X 10.7 was released, and SDL 1.2.14 suddenly was unable to go fullscreen at all.[14:36:16] <somaen> Happily 1.2.15 was released to fix that, but I wouldn't bet on another round of fixes like that, I _WOULD_ however bet on Apple deprecating more stuff in the future.[14:36:22] <wjp> (fullscreen is broken on OS X?)[14:36:37] <somaen> wjp: Not consistently[14:36:45] <wjp> so, that's a yes? :-)[14:36:49] <somaen> But I did some testing with my GoG-bought LSL[14:36:52] <Sir_Burpalot> It's just that most open-source projects poop on high DPI, except for GNOME 3 and Firefox.[14:36:54] <Strangerke> wjp: yes[14:37:12] <somaen> it can't switch consistently, and IIRC updating from 1.5.0 to 1.6.0 didn't help atleast.[14:37:30] <Sir_Burpalot> wjp: on Retina displays, it appears to be broken.[14:37:38] <somaen> Sir_Burpalot: It's a case of "someone needs to care AND have the hw"[14:38:00] <Strangerke> somaen: and free time[14:38:03] <Sir_Burpalot> With the OpenGL renderer, at least.[14:38:16] <somaen> Well, does the normal renderer work?[14:38:22] <wjp> did anybody already investigate _why_ it's broken?[14:38:48] <somaen> I seem to remember OS X exposing the actual resolution to OpenGL[14:38:59] <somaen> but talking in half-resolution through normal APIs or something[14:39:19] <wjp> and that makes us and/or SDL confused?[14:39:23] <somaen> (Just speculating, as I remember Diablo 3 reviews talking about very high resolutions)[14:39:26] <somaen> Might be[14:39:35] <somaen> I don't have a retina screen, but it could be.[14:39:46] <somaen> It could also be a case of adding a plist-flag like clone mentioned[14:40:15] <wjp> that flag sounds it would only be a good idea when using OpenGL rendering?[14:40:18] <somaen> Which btw should preferably be done for the flag that tells OS X that we DON'T need a dedicated GPU anyhow.[14:40:37] <somaen> (I.e. the "Sure, Intel graphics is fine" flag)[14:40:59] <somaen> For battery reasons.[14:41:09] <wjp> do we have anyone with a Mac and a retina display?[14:42:09] <somaen> Sir_Burpalot: Did you try to press CMD-I on ScummVM in Finder, and select "open in low res"?[14:43:09] <somaen> From http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20426140/how-to-enable-use-low-resolution-on-retina-display-for-an-application-when-shi[14:43:12] <Sir_Burpalot> I did just now. Fullscreen is still broken.[14:43:21] <droid2727> Or have the OS rebuild the plist cache after modifying the plist?[14:43:25] <somaen> I get the idea that _IF_ that works, then the plsit change should.[14:43:33] <Sir_Burpalot> Oh, the plist cache.[14:43:44] <somaen> droid2727: Shouldn't the override in Finder effectively do the same thing?[14:43:51] *** somaen has quit IRC[14:43:51] *** somaen has joined #scummvm[14:43:51] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o somaen[14:44:03] <droid2727> I thought they were slightly different[14:44:26] <droid2727> But I don't have anything beyond 10.6, so I can only make guesses here[14:45:44] <somaen> Well, 10.10 here, but non-retina.[14:45:54] <Sir_Burpalot> I've also noticed that, even though there's pixel doubling, screen transitions in SCI games take considerably longer than they did on a non-Retina display.[14:46:22] <somaen> I have, from time to time considered doing a native OS X backend for modern-ish OS X.[14:46:38] <somaen> Since that seems to be the place where SDL tears the most at the seems these days.[14:46:49] <Sir_Burpalot> That would be very nice.[14:46:56] <somaen> (And I've been wanting to have some reason to do something in Cocoa anyhow)[14:47:22] <droid2727> the screen transition nonsense has always been around[14:47:38] <droid2727> disable vsync and it will be fine[14:47:43] <Sir_Burpalot> Would it have native OS X menus, too?[14:48:02] <somaen> In a perfect world where I'd have time, sure, why not.[14:48:10] <wjp> these transitions are annoying, yes...[14:49:41] <droid2727> I too have thought about breaking from SDL...[14:49:57] <somaen> I'm not sure what SDK version should be targetted though, although, I'd guess something like 10.7+ atleast, since SDL1 seems to work ok up until 10.6[14:50:01] <droid2727> though, I only looked at OpenAL support[14:50:22] <droid2727> somaen: and then we'd be releasing two versions for Mac?[14:50:46] <somaen> Well, what we'd be releasing is entirely another question.[14:51:02] <somaen> But OS X is a rather divergent target when you stretch it from 10.2 to 10.10[14:51:42] <droid2727> Not as much as you'd think; not for what we use[14:51:46] <Sir_Burpalot> Other platforms have all around crappy high-DPI support, but on OS X, I only have to put up with ScummVM not supporting it, so that's comforting.[14:51:49] <somaen> The Intel-side of the UB can be built against 10.5 anyhow (well, 10.4 if we want to support the earliest dev machines)[14:52:39] <somaen> Although, it isn't really pretty to have a UB where the ppc-binary is SDL1-based, and the Intel-binary is non-SDL-based I guess.[14:52:42] <droid2727> That might be doable[14:52:59] <droid2727> Or have a native Mac one be 64-bit only[14:53:15] <droid2727> and the ppc and x86 ones remain SDL[14:53:31] <droid2727> it's never pretty, no[14:55:43] <Sir_Burpalot> Why is there still a PPC build? If anyone is using a PPC Mac in 2014 as anything other than a museum showpiece, they should expect lots of things not to work.[14:55:47] <somaen> Well, diverging depending on x86/x86-64 is a bit weird[14:55:56] <somaen> Sir_Burpalot: Please, don't do that.[14:56:09] <somaen> You won't be getting any more friends that way.[14:56:20] <Sir_Burpalot> Well, the PPC support is probably the reason Dreamweb is broken on OS X.[14:56:35] <wjp> Dreamweb is broken on OS X?[14:56:42] <Sir_Burpalot> Yes. It crashes after the intro.[14:57:14] <somaen> Is this by any chance 1.6.0?[14:57:26] <somaen> The problem is not what you think it is.[14:57:32] <wjp> oh, right, somebody built it with a broken compiler[14:57:45] <somaen> Yes, it is only in the release build.[14:57:58] <somaen> A buildbot build of the same branch does not have that issue.[14:58:20] <Sir_Burpalot> Well, isn't it because of the PPC support that an outdated compiler is used for the release builds?[14:58:25] <Sir_Burpalot> Maybe not.[14:59:42] <droid2727> Since buildbot has a ppc build too, no[15:00:01] <Sir_Burpalot> At some point, though, support for legacy software and hardware really does need to be dropped if it becomes too painful to maintain. Just look at IE6...[15:00:07] <droid2727> Blaming PPC builds for your woes won't you anywhere[15:00:18] <wjp> legacy software? Such as, say, Monkey Island 1? :-)[15:00:29] <droid2727> We're all about supporting legacy software.[15:01:47] <somaen> Sir_Burpalot: The PPC build can be performed completely separately from the intel build[15:01:52] <Sir_Burpalot> Oh, another question about Dreamweb.[15:02:01] <somaen> a UB is basically just a glued together set of 2/3 binaries[15:02:14] <Sir_Burpalot> Why is the bright palette mode turned on by default?[15:02:46] <Sir_Burpalot> Does it have something to do with the Amiga version? Because I don't remember Dreamweb ever looking like that on DOS.[15:03:59] *** clone2728 has joined #scummvm[15:03:59] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o clone2728[15:04:31] <Sir_Burpalot> (The buildbot version of ScummVM doesn't crash, by the way, so thanks.)[15:04:54] <wjp> there should be an option to turn off the bright palette[15:05:00] <somaen> IIRC, it isn't even a case of a broken compiler, just outdated libs.[15:05:08] *** droid2727 has quit IRC[15:05:17] *** SylvainTV has quit IRC[15:06:50] <Sir_Burpalot> wjp: I know there's an option. It's just always puzzled me why it's enabled by default.[15:07:46] <somaen> And well, personally I don't really see a big problem with offering two separate OS X builds, one for 10.2-10.6 and one for 10.7+ (or some other split). 10.6 has rosetta, anything after doesn't. The only real problem is that there is nothing preventing that from having to happen AGAIN, which is boring.[15:07:54] <wjp> somaen: hm, I think the valgrind backtrace pointed at a compiler bug since it was showing data corruption inside our own data strucctures[15:07:58] <wjp> s/valgrind//[15:08:27] <somaen> wjp: I vaguely remember doing some tests there, and noticing some discrepancies in the libs[15:08:41] <somaen> Which of course might lead to a bug in our code at a later point.[15:08:50] * wjp is unconvinced :-)[15:08:54] *** clone2728 has quit IRC[15:09:13] <somaen> Oh well.[15:09:25] <somaen> Would anyone scream at me if I _DID_ do a native OS X backend?[15:11:05] <wjp> assuming it would have feature parity, I guess the big question would be maintenance[15:12:23] <somaen> Yeah, I'd be hoping to converge atleast SOME with the iOS-backend[15:13:49] <somaen> It would give me a chance to add proper fullscreen support, which SDL1 won't add, ever.[15:17:07] <somaen> I remember having some code in for ResidualVM that allowed the iOS backend (lifted from ScummVM) to work in GLES2 too, moving the GL-context from the main-thread to the "gameloop"-thread, I really should take another look at that (and look into allowing both GLES1 and GLES2) for backporting/completion.[15:17:40] *** droid2727 has joined #scummvm[15:17:40] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o droid2727[15:28:40] *** Wishmaster has quit IRC[15:28:59] *** Wishmaster has joined #scummvm[15:39:30] *** Sir_Burpalot has quit IRC[15:59:48] *** _marc` has quit IRC[16:06:40] *** Quatroking has joined #scummvm[16:20:50] *** Wishmaster has quit IRC[16:47:05] *** Wishmaster has joined #scummvm[16:54:01] *** _sev|work has joined #scummvm[16:54:01] *** _sev|work has joined #scummvm[16:54:02] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o _sev|work[16:55:33] *** Vampire0_ has quit IRC[17:09:56] *** Sir_Burpalot has joined #scummvm[17:12:34] *** SylvainTV has joined #scummvm[17:12:34] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o SylvainTV[17:27:39] *** _marc` has joined #scummvm[17:42:42] *** Sir_Burpalot has quit IRC[17:43:43] *** Sir_Burpalot has joined #scummvm[17:44:20] *** TMM has quit IRC[17:55:36] *** Cheeseness has quit IRC[17:55:43] *** ny00123 has joined #scummvm[18:03:13] *** WooShell has joined #scummvm[18:05:09] <WooShell> meow =^.^=[18:22:43] *** Sir_Burpalot has quit IRC[18:27:18] *** Deledrius_ has joined #scummvm[18:28:44] *** Vampire0 has joined #scummvm[18:30:17] *** Deledrius has quit IRC[18:33:01] *** h00ligan has quit IRC[18:36:52] *** Sir_Burpalot has joined #scummvm[18:37:47] *** broosky has quit IRC[18:40:44] *** ajax16384 has joined #scummvm[18:40:44] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ajax16384[18:42:12] *** sirlemonhead has joined #scummvm[18:45:53] *** m_kiewitz has joined #scummvm[18:45:53] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o m_kiewitz[18:46:01] *** Ramal has quit IRC[18:47:50] *** Ramal has joined #scummvm[18:53:01] *** Raziel^ has joined #scummvm[18:53:02] *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Raziel^[18:54:39] <m_kiewitz> Space Quest 6 - the waiting game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Oqr0WTfrNs[18:55:14] *** lukaslw has joined #scummvm[18:55:15] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o lukaslw[18:56:40] *** Deledrius_ has quit IRC[19:13:06] *** Sir_Burpalot has quit IRC[19:15:36] *** Sir_Burpalot has joined #scummvm[19:19:55] <Raziel^> m_kiewitz: too bad they didn't award that :-)[19:20:12] <m_kiewitz> we could patch something in :P[19:20:23] <Raziel^> hell, yeah, please :-D[19:26:49] *** ST1 has quit IRC[19:29:09] *** Raziel^ has quit IRC[19:29:26] *** Raziel^ has joined #scummvm[19:29:26] *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Raziel^[19:30:07] *** ST has joined #scummvm[19:30:07] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ST[19:34:42] *** Javacat is now known as NotJavacat[19:35:03] *** broosky has joined #scummvm[19:39:36] *** NotJavacat has quit IRC[19:39:53] *** t0by has joined #scummvm[19:39:53] *** ChanServ sets mode: +v t0by[19:46:23] *** m_kiewitz has quit IRC[19:46:34] *** Sylvain has joined #scummvm[19:47:09] *** SylvainTV has quit IRC[19:51:03] *** nrbcmi has joined #scummvm[19:51:20] *** m_kiewitz has joined #scummvm[19:51:21] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o m_kiewitz[19:51:35] *** Deledrius has joined #scummvm[20:03:36] *** Sylvain has quit IRC[20:06:40] *** lukaslw has quit IRC[20:07:01] *** _sev|work has quit IRC[20:09:40] *** nrbcmi has quit IRC[20:13:21] *** Wishmaster has quit IRC[20:25:42] *** broosky has quit IRC[20:25:59] *** broosky has joined #scummvm[20:30:15] *** borosky has joined #scummvm[20:31:08] *** broosky has quit IRC[20:33:03] *** broosky has joined #scummvm[20:34:21] *** Harekiet has quit IRC[20:34:41] *** borosky has quit IRC[20:36:36] *** Harekiet has joined #scummvm[20:39:48] *** SylvainTV has joined #scummvm[20:39:48] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o SylvainTV[20:41:51] <sirlemonhead> heh getting major weirdness in Fate of atlantis from GOG.[20:42:14] <sirlemonhead> Sophia is apparently having knifes thrown at her, yet she's currently on the other side of the screen :P[20:42:46] <sirlemonhead> knife thrower is talking to thin air :)[20:43:56] <sirlemonhead> I assume that's just Scumm itself acting up and/or old scummvm version..[20:45:18] <droid2727> file a bug[20:45:55] <sirlemonhead> ok, will do. I have two savegames where it acts up[20:59:50] *** RUBICN64 has joined #scummvm[21:14:44] *** Deledrius_ has joined #scummvm[21:18:30] *** Deledrius has quit IRC[21:19:43] *** borosky has joined #scummvm[21:21:19] *** broosky has quit IRC[21:22:46] *** RUBICN64 has quit IRC[21:24:37] *** stekern has joined #scummvm[21:27:47] *** D0SFreak has quit IRC[21:29:35] *** Deledrius_ has quit IRC[21:37:45] *** Raziel^ has quit IRC[21:44:24] *** Deledrius has joined #scummvm[22:03:48] *** |Cable| has quit IRC[22:16:49] *** |Cable| has joined #scummvm[22:46:22] *** ajax16384 has quit IRC[23:02:10] *** Sir_Burpalot has quit IRC[23:07:00] *** Quatroking has quit IRC[23:23:25] *** ny00123 has quit IRC[23:27:17] *** Littleboy has joined #scummvm[23:27:17] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Littleboy[23:28:36] *** _marc` has quit IRC[23:31:43] *** D0SFreak has joined #scummvm[23:45:17] *** Sir_Burpalot has joined #scummvm[23:49:55] *** Cheeseness has joined #scummvm[23:52:27] *** kurtwr has quit IRC[23:57:20] *** kurtwr has joined #scummvm