March 15, 2019 
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<Olipro!~Olipro@6.123.2.81.in-addr.arpa> has quit IRC (Changing host)[13:39:39] *** Olipro <Olipro!~Olipro@uncyclopedia/pdpc.21for7.olipro> has joined #postfix[13:42:16] *** edux <edux!~edux@190.247.46.25> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[13:45:49] *** edux <edux!~edux@190.247.46.25> has joined #postfix[13:51:01] *** golden_receiver <golden_receiver!~andry@unaffiliated/golden-receiver/x-4949035> has joined #postfix[13:52:52] *** shal3r <shal3r!~shal3r@80.232.250.159> has quit IRC (Quit: emerge life)[14:05:15] *** gislaved <gislaved!b9e814ec@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.185.232.20.236> has joined #postfix[14:07:15] *** ]SiB[ <]SiB[!~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/sib/x-9459575> has joined #postfix[14:24:34] *** edux <edux!~edux@190.247.46.25> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[14:24:53] *** edux <edux!~edux@190.247.46.25> has joined #postfix[14:44:28] *** FinboySlick <FinboySlick!~shark@74.117.40.10> has joined #postfix[15:15:10] *** Noti <Noti!~steffan@ip4da40774.direct-adsl.nl> has joined #postfix[15:23:31] *** yurb <yurb!yurb@wikipedia/Yuriy-Bulka> has joined #postfix[15:41:55] <yurb> Hi everyone. My question is going to be a general one about how bounces work, but since I'm configuring postfix, I've decided I'd ask here. There is a domain, example.com, that already has a mail server. I'm going to configure another one just for sending out a mail newsletter, on mailtrain.example.com[15:42:43] <yurb> (I must say I'm new to mail servers, so please correct me if the idea itself is bad)[15:43:20] <yurb> My question is the following: if I send the newsletter from an SMTP server (postfix) running on mailtrain.example.com, where will the bounce emails arrive?[15:44:07] <yurb> Can I even have an address like noreply at mailtrain dot example.com as the Return-Path of the newsletter?[15:44:21] <yurb> (I'm going to use Mailtrain to manage the newsletter)[15:45:25] <survietamine> hello, general questions can be asked in ##email.[15:45:57] <survietamine> you didn't say if you're using some mlm, and I'm guessing most mlm have that feature[15:47:03] <rob0> read up about "envelope sender", and yes, you want to use some kind of MLM software.[15:47:14] <survietamine> with SYMPA, I can set per list if it will be sender/list/another address and if we must respect the original header from the MUA[15:48:09] <survietamine> if it's mailman, somebody else should help you in ##email or if #mailman is active enough[15:48:12] <rob0> You'll need to configure the list domain in DNS, i.e., with MX, and SPF if desired (might be a good idea for a bulk mailer)[15:48:30] <yurb> rob0, survietamine: thank you for the hints. As the MLM I'm going to use Mailtrain[15:49:01] <survietamine> ah, sorry, I didn't understand it's a MLM[15:49:47] <survietamine> oh, it only does newsletters?[15:49:54] <rob0> feel not bad, I had never heard of it either :)[15:51:04] <survietamine> hehe[15:51:35] <survietamine> maybe because we're not nodemailer/nodejs users[15:51:46] <survietamine> node.js, sorry :p[15:52:11] <yurb> My use case is a kind of self-hosted mailchimp[15:52:59] <survietamine> good luck[15:53:06] <yurb> So if I understand correctly, I should create a separate MX record for mailtrain.example.com to have the bounces arrive correctly[15:53:52] <survietamine> sure[15:54:07] <yurb> thanks[15:54:54] <rob0> you should have a MX record for ANY name you want to use as an email domain[15:55:00] <survietamine> does mailtrain have some bounce calculation like SYMPA? https://sympa-community.github.io/manual/customize/bounce-management.html[15:55:55] <rob0> and note, mailchimp brings a lot to the table. They know how to get your stuff delivered, whereas it might take you years to build up reputation.[15:56:18] <rob0> ESPs like that exist for very good reason[15:56:28] <survietamine> hehe, and not sure it will be for free :D[15:56:36] <rob0> self-hosting might end up costing more[16:00:07] *** somepoortech <somepoortech!~somepoort@72.12.70.165> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[16:00:55] *** Oclair_ <Oclair_!~Oclair@www.aventia.pw> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[16:01:22] <yurb> rob0: regarding bounce management, I'm not sure, but I suspect it's more manual[16:02:34] <rob0> Was this DIY ESP your idea, or boss' idea looking at how much mailchimp would cost?[16:02:55] <tuxick> a Z problem![16:02:59] *** robinho86 <robinho86!~robsonjf@191.36.239.241> has joined #postfix[16:04:10] <rob0> Note, if your list is perfectly clean and kept that way, you might succeed. I'm not saying you won't, just saying it will probably be harder than you thought.[16:06:57] <yurb> rob0: thanks for warning me about that. I'm in Ukraine, so paying for mailchimp would be 1/3 of my salary[16:07:12] <yurb> or 1/4[16:07:26] <rob0> this could become a full-time job for you[16:08:15] <rob0> sites in the west are often prejudiced against Russia/Ukraine and such[16:09:34] <tuxick> yurb: in ukraine not using mailchimp would probably be getting most mails rejected[16:09:40] *** Oclair <Oclair!~Oclair@www.aventia.pw> has joined #postfix[16:09:41] <tuxick> notorious spamhole[16:10:17] <tuxick> s/be/mean/[16:10:20] <yurb> rob0: interesting. Do you think it's really such a big effort to run this newsletter for, let's say, 3000-6000 local subscribers?[16:11:07] <yurb> tuxick: I plan to host it on Scaleway, Amsterdam IP[16:12:48] <yurb> The model is the following. We are a state concert institution. We have a list of people who attend our concerts. We'd like to periodically send them the newsletter.[16:13:04] *** jalalsfs <jalalsfs!~jalalsfs@unaffiliated/jalalsfs> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[16:13:29] <rob0> As I said, a perfectly clean list and adequate IP reputation, you should be fine.[16:13:38] <tuxick> don't know scaleway, so no idea about their reputation[16:13:46] *** somepoortech <somepoortech!~somepoort@72.12.70.165> has joined #postfix[16:13:47] <rob0> Wow, how much did Mailchimp what for a tiny list like that?[16:13:58] <yurb> tuxick: is there a way to check the reputation somehow?[16:14:19] <yurb> 6000 is £57.22 per month[16:14:59] <rob0> hmmm[16:15:23] <rob0> May be worth a try, I don't know[16:16:00] <tuxick> yurb: http://multirbl.valli.org/lookup might help[16:16:26] <yurb> rob0: one more thing - what do you mean by list cleanness?[16:16:31] <yurb> thanks tuxick[16:16:33] <tuxick> but i'm not sure how much use it is[16:17:49] <rob0> I think this should move to ##email , nothing Postfix about it yet, and getting further off[16:21:02] <yurb> you're right[16:27:42] *** tobeon <tobeon!~tobeon@cm-84.209.1.157.getinternet.no> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[16:29:06] *** troulouliou_div2 <troulouliou_div2!~troulouli@unaffiliated/troulouliou-div2/x-0271439> has joined #postfix[16:30:29] *** Olipro_ <Olipro_!~Olipro@2001:8b0:14a7:1b24::1> has joined #postfix[16:30:29] *** Olipro_ <Olipro_!~Olipro@2001:8b0:14a7:1b24::1> has quit IRC (Changing host)[16:30:29] *** Olipro_ <Olipro_!~Olipro@uncyclopedia/pdpc.21for7.olipro> has joined #postfix[16:30:52] *** Olipro <Olipro!~Olipro@uncyclopedia/pdpc.21for7.olipro> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[16:31:07] *** Olipro_ is now known as Olipro[16:39:33] *** simbalion` <simbalion`!~simba@45.77.108.203> has joined #postfix[16:46:01] *** ]SiB[ <]SiB[!~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/sib/x-9459575> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:59:42] *** ]SiB[ <]SiB[!~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/sib/x-9459575> has joined #postfix[17:06:07] *** 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<eelstrebor!~eelstrebo@216-75-116-100.static.allophone.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Ex-Chat)[18:51:10] *** robinho86 <robinho86!~robsonjf@191.36.239.241> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[18:52:10] <kermit> whats the right way to block messages by the name (not address) in the From: line?[18:53:59] <tuxick> a spamfilter[18:54:46] <rob0> right way is: don't[18:55:52] *** rsx <rsx!~rsx@ppp-188-174-130-96.dynamic.mnet-online.de> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[18:57:26] <tuxick> or do it at client/user side, with sieve[18:57:36] <tuxick> but that's not blocking :)[18:58:03] <tuxick> recipient would be the word, but ok[18:59:43] <teward> kermit: specialized SPamAssassin filters (and a spam filter), but the proper way is to not try and block by the 'display name' part of the From line :P[18:59:46] <teward> as was stated :P[19:00:33] <rob0> that way lies madness[19:01:15] <tuxick> madness is everywhere[19:02:26] <opilab> excuse me if this is off-topic, but do i need an spf record for both my mail subdomain and root?[19:02:38] <rob0> Madness takes its toll! (Please have exact change.)[19:04:33] <double-p> excited![19:07:44] <pinPoint> ok, finally!![19:08:09] <pinPoint> I've got DNSSEC, TLSA, DANE SMTP working, certified GREEN. :D[19:08:37] <opilab> pinPoint: that's awesome[19:09:00] <pinPoint> but I have a bone to pick with bind people though... some permission rw issues.[19:09:52] *** teward <teward!teward@ubuntu/member/teward> has quit IRC (Quit: The Darkness Will Rise Again.)[19:10:19] <tuxick> blame the packager[19:11:00] <double-p> or send a diff :)[19:12:32] <rob0> and it's *not* a BIND problem, it's an apparmor/packaging problem[19:13:17] <double-p> i consider BIND a problem in itself for two decades something :)[19:14:19] *** ntnlzr <ntnlzr!~ntnlzer@pix.gsy.it> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[19:16:20] *** robinho86 <robinho86!~robsonjf@191.36.239.241> has joined #postfix[19:16:26] *** ]SiB[ <]SiB[!~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/sib/x-9459575> has joined #postfix[19:16:49] *** gu1lle_ <gu1lle_!~Thunderbi@201.216.253.75> has joined #postfix[19:23:48] <tuxick> i looked at powerdns, it's nice[19:23:53] <tuxick> and went back to bind[19:27:03] <double-p> :)[19:28:12] *** ]SiB[ <]SiB[!~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/sib/x-9459575> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[19:31:32] *** ]SiB[ <]SiB[!~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/sib/x-9459575> has joined #postfix[19:38:40] *** Naglfar <Naglfar!Severance@unaffiliated/naglfar> has left #postfix[19:38:56] *** Naglfar <Naglfar!Severance@unaffiliated/naglfar> has joined #postfix[19:48:36] <pinPoint> tuxick: heh[19:49:12] *** _cr_ <_cr_!~quassel@srv.ncxs.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[19:50:16] * double-p "drives" through akihabara on gmaps.. best two weeks ahead this year :)[19:51:37] *** opilab <opilab!~opilab@host81-154-78-180.range81-154.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[19:57:34] *** TheFatherMind- <TheFatherMind-!~TheFather@cpe-104-34-204-52.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 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<]SiB[!~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/sib/x-9459575> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[21:08:25] <tuxick> dankzij het eindeloze badkamer verhaal zijn nu blijkbaar allebei de afvoeren weer vrij[21:08:53] <tuxick> nou ik toch al een sleuf in de vloer heb gehakt denk ik dat ik ze gewoon koppel[21:08:57] <tuxick> redundante afvoer![21:11:55] <tuxick> en ik denk dat ik de doucheboiler aan ga sluiten op warmwater uitgang van de combiketel[21:12:04] <tuxick> die dan uit/laag staat[21:12:28] <tuxick> zodat daar later evt een ander systeem aan kan[21:21:15] *** opilab_ <opilab_!~opilab@host81-154-78-180.range81-154.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[21:23:32] *** teward <teward!teward@ubuntu/member/teward> has joined #postfix[21:26:48] *** opilab_ <opilab_!~opilab@host81-154-78-180.range81-154.btcentralplus.com> has joined #postfix[21:30:58] *** TheFatherMind <TheFatherMind!~TheFather@cpe-104-34-204-52.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[21:32:08] *** shibboleth <shibboleth!~shibbolet@gateway/tor-sasl/shibboleth> has joined #postfix[21:39:35] *** n_1-c_k <n_1-c_k!~nick@2a02:8010:63a6::70> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[21:39:55] *** n_1-c_k <n_1-c_k!~nick@2a02:8010:63a6::70> has joined #postfix[21:46:53] *** edux__ <edux__!~edux@190.247.46.25> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving...)[21:50:57] <tuxick> haha sorry dudes[22:05:01] *** namyzarc <namyzarc!~namyzarc@c-73-187-86-216.hsd1.pa.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[22:09:55] *** Diemuzi <Diemuzi!~diemuzi@unaffiliated/diemuzi> has quit IRC (Quit: See you on the flip side!)[22:15:47] *** chkbsd <chkbsd!~ucio@unaffiliated/ucio> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[22:17:30] *** chkbsd <chkbsd!~ucio@bla.mode42.one> has joined #postfix[22:17:30] *** chkbsd <chkbsd!~ucio@bla.mode42.one> has quit IRC (Changing host)[22:17:30] *** chkbsd <chkbsd!~ucio@unaffiliated/ucio> has joined #postfix[22:42:08] *** TheFatherMind 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qgTG[23:13:50] *** 7YUAA73WD <7YUAA73WD!~opilab@host81-154-78-180.range81-154.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[23:15:23] *** opilab_ <opilab_!~opilab@host81-154-78-180.range81-154.btcentralplus.com> has joined #postfix[23:20:29] *** Elisha <Elisha!~elisha@188-230-142-97.dynamic.t-2.net> has joined #postfix[23:26:59] <petn-randall> tuxick: Good luck with your bathroom renovations![23:27:37] *** eelstrebor <eelstrebor!~eelstrebo@216-75-116-100.static.allophone.net> has joined #postfix[23:54:05] *** tobeon <tobeon!~tobeon@cm-84.209.8.103.getinternet.no> has joined #postfix[23:58:11] *** imm__ <imm__!~imm_@dh207-40-55.xnet.hr> has joined #postfix[23:59:34] *** imm_ <imm_!~imm_@unaffiliated/imm/x-7821412> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)