March 2, 2019 
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March 2, 2019 [00:00:36] *** WakiMiko <WakiMiko!~WakiMiko@unaffiliated/wakimiko> has joined #postfix[00:04:59] <pinPoint> cybrNaut: I have a "Received: from [IP] (unknown[public IP]) - Where can I read more of this?[00:05:37] *** Penguin_ <Penguin_!~xwQ5kwYl6@our.systems.are.full.of.penguins.at.penguinsystems.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[00:05:45] *** gislaved <gislaved!5266180a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.82.102.24.10> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[00:05:49] <pinPoint> !headers[00:05:49] <knoba> pinPoint: Error: "headers" is not a valid command.[00:05:52] <pinPoint> !header[00:05:53] <knoba> pinPoint: Error: "header" is not a valid command.[00:05:53] *** Getty <Getty!getty@stardestroyer.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[00:06:18] *** varesa_ <varesa_!~varesa@ec2-52-49-18-111.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com> has joined #postfix[00:06:30] *** Getty <Getty!getty@stardestroyer.de> has joined #postfix[00:08:05] *** Penguin_ <Penguin_!~xwQ5kwYl6@our.systems.are.full.of.penguins.at.penguinsystems.net> has joined #postfix[00:12:59] <pinPoint> also, wouldn't user at domain dot com already reveal the user?[00:14:38] <lunaphyte> !tell pinPoint example[00:14:38] <knoba> pinPoint: "example" : Example.TLD has been reserved for examples in generic top-level domains (com,net,org) and many other TLDs. Please do not use real Internet names as examples.[00:14:47] <lunaphyte> user at example dot com is just an email address[00:15:02] <lunaphyte> it may or may not coincide with other things like usernames, etc[00:15:10] *** gislaved <gislaved!b9e814cd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.185.232.20.205> has joined #postfix[00:15:15] <pinPoint> but if I saw the user I can then challenge the server with that user*[00:15:25] <lunaphyte> challenge the server?[00:15:42] <pinPoint> for login. If that is what hidding headers is about?[00:16:00] <lunaphyte> like i said, user at example dot com is just an email address[00:16:17] <lunaphyte> it may or may not also be a username somewhere[00:17:17] <pinPoint> ok. What if the user@example has no shell access. Does that reduce the impact somehow?[00:17:35] * pinPoint I'm just not understanding this hidding of headers I suppose.[00:18:10] <lunaphyte> hiding the headers is really just about some degree of security through obscurity[00:18:23] <lunaphyte> it's something that may or may not make a difference[00:18:25] *** gu1lle_ <gu1lle_!~Thunderbi@201.216.253.75> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:19:12] <pinPoint> I see.[00:19:14] *** jwhitmore <jwhitmore!~jwhitmore@109.76.158.68> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:20:27] <pinPoint> lunaphyte: what do you know about dnswl? I've added my domain/ip there but I'm not in the list after days-week.[00:20:41] <lunaphyte> that wouldn't be a postfix question[00:20:53] <pinPoint> ah, you're right.[00:20:59] <lunaphyte> you could ask in ##email, but really, you'd just have to contact the service provider and find out[00:36:48] <regis> Semi-postfix question here. Is the 80chars text wrapping ... emm... welcome on the ml? I have a question pending and I can see that some people tend do wrap, some don't. What's the best way?[00:38:20] <lunaphyte> i'd say that's just fine[00:38:20] *** n_1-c_k <n_1-c_k!~nick@2a02:8010:63a6::70> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[00:39:09] *** n_1-c_k <n_1-c_k!~nick@2a02:8010:63a6::70> has joined #postfix[00:49:25] *** W3TAJ <W3TAJ!james@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe6e:d098> has joined #postfix[00:58:26] <cybrNaut> pinPoint: you seem to be thinking about the normal case, where a user is using the email address that matches their local username at example dot TLD pair. But a user can freehand type any email address in the "From:" field if they use mutt, and the local mail server may not even offer to accept inbound mail from the WAN. In that case, the internal username differs from what's in the address, which is[00:58:33] <cybrNaut> clearly a compromise[01:02:35] <cybrNaut> a user may want to masquerade under many different identities each associated with a different address. But all of that is blown if every single email contains their same internal username and domain or IP.[01:05:08] *** Diemuzi <Diemuzi!~IceChat9@unaffiliated/diemuzi> has quit IRC (Quit: See you on the flip side!)[01:07:46] <cybrNaut> pinPoint: a good general principle in infosec is to not disclose more information than necessary. So by not removing the "Received:" headers before sending, you are only helping your adversary. (there's a caveat though-- some poorly configured receiving servers will treat the msg as spam if it lacks Received: headers, which may matter to you)[01:13:31] <lunaphyte> clearly a compromise?[01:13:33] <lunaphyte> no.[01:13:40] <lunaphyte> potentially undesirable?[01:13:41] <lunaphyte> sure[01:14:18] <lunaphyte> by not removing received headers, you may be helping someone[01:14:25] <lunaphyte> these are not empirical absolutes[01:25:40] *** boombudder <boombudder!~boom@p200300E98F3586CE68FD9382260957EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.4)[01:30:22] *** cemotyz09 <cemotyz09!~cemotyz09@cpe-70-121-128-59.satx.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[01:44:56] *** eelstrebor <eelstrebor!~eelstrebo@216-75-116-100.static.allophone.net> has joined #postfix[01:56:35] *** shibboleth <shibboleth!~shibbolet@gateway/tor-sasl/shibboleth> has joined #postfix[02:02:04] *** gislaved <gislaved!b9e814cd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.185.232.20.205> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[02:02:38] *** gislaved <gislaved!b9d4ab0d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.185.212.171.13> has joined #postfix[02:13:33] <pinPoint> hmm, ok.[02:13:57] <pinPoint> is this a desired effect: Received: from authenticated-user (localhost [127.0.0.1]) ??[02:14:10] <pinPoint> That's what I've done so far with postfix.[02:20:08] *** Bebef <Bebef!sbreit@phobos.bebef.de> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[02:21:16] *** Bebef <Bebef!sbreit@phobos.bebef.de> has joined #postfix[03:05:57] *** jalalsfs_ <jalalsfs_!~jalalsfs@unaffiliated/jalalsfs> has joined #postfix[03:08:44] *** jalalsfs <jalalsfs!~jalalsfs@unaffiliated/jalalsfs> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[03:14:43] *** eelstrebor <eelstrebor!~eelstrebo@216-75-116-100.static.allophone.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Ex-Chat)[03:21:33] *** Netwolf <Netwolf!~Netwolf@unaffiliated/netwolf> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[03:26:08] *** johnny56 <johnny56!johnny56@unaffiliated/johnny56> has 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#postfix[23:28:24] *** doctor-n1 <doctor-n1!~doctor-n1@121.159.212.229> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[23:31:38] *** oculux <oculux!~oculux@109.202.107.5> has quit IRC (Quit: blah)[23:33:21] *** oculux <oculux!~oculux@109.202.107.5> has joined #postfix[23:35:27] *** ItsAVortex <ItsAVortex!~ItsAVorte@2600:380:6847:45dd:3d1b:285f:90f2:179e> has joined #postfix[23:35:58] *** ItsAVortex <ItsAVortex!~ItsAVorte@2600:380:6847:45dd:3d1b:285f:90f2:179e> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[23:36:22] *** ItsAVortex <ItsAVortex!~ItsAVorte@2600:380:6847:45dd:3d1b:285f:90f2:179e> has joined #postfix[23:40:11] *** DTZUZU <DTZUZU!~DTZUZU@S0106bcd16584b0aa.vs.shawcable.net> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.2)[23:45:47] *** DTZUZU <DTZUZU!~DTZUZU@S0106bcd16584b0aa.vs.shawcable.net> has joined #postfix[23:47:57] *** ItsAVortex <ItsAVortex!~ItsAVorte@2600:380:6847:45dd:3d1b:285f:90f2:179e> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[23:54:07] <cybrNaut> lunaphyte> clearly a compromise? <= of course it's a compromise. Sensitive information is recklessly, needlessly disclosed. A "compromise" is a security lapse, including but not limited to needless sensitive information disclosure[23:54:42] <lunaphyte> you're confusing your opinion with everyone else's[23:55:01] <cybrNaut> the infosec industry is clear about this. The rule of least priviledge is widely accepted[23:55:09] <cybrNaut> it's in textbooks[23:55:29] <cybrNaut> you do not needlessly disclose sensitive information. And why would you? It makes zero sense[23:56:11] <lunaphyte> the litany of pejorative adjectives is also not winning you any hearts or minds ;)[23:56:42] <lunaphyte> you see, the thing is, i agree with you, in that i believe disclosing unnecessary information is not likely to be wise[23:56:47] <lunaphyte> and like you, i elect to not do it[23:57:05] <cybrNaut> you're confusing laypeople with security pros. laypeople think what you think -- that reason is needed to secure something. Security admins say the opposite: secure it, unless you can justify the contrary[23:57:08] <lunaphyte> and like you, i'd discourage others from doing it[23:57:35] <lunaphyte> the difference though is unlike you, that i'm not dictating circumstances to others[23:57:37] <lunaphyte> that is all[23:58:04] <cybrNaut> you don't. You called it "security by obscurity", which not only discourages it, it's improper use of that phrase.[23:58:14] <lunaphyte> perhaps someone wants to. perhaps circumstances may differ from what you've invented as your expectations[23:58:24] <lunaphyte> these are all plausible realities[23:58:44] <cybrNaut> Security by obscurity means you're relying on complexity to over burden the adversary, but that's not the case here[23:59:11] <lunaphyte> incorrect[23:59:23] <lunaphyte> you've got research to do[23:59:28] <cybrNaut> you're not alone though.. "Security by obscurity" is hte most overused and misused buzz phrase in the discipline[23:59:32] <lunaphyte> in any case, it's not topical here[23:59:45] <cybrNaut> lunaphyte: i have my infosec masters - you need the help on this