February 27, 2017 
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February 27, 2017 [00:00:20] *** froz-gab <froz-gab!~froz-gab@host22-23-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:10:22] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has joined #postfix[00:11:19] *** Xentil <Xentil!~quassel@ip-46-21-210-22.nette.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)[00:15:22] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[00:15:28] *** mikecmpbll <mikecmpbll!~mikecmpbl@ruby/staff/mikecmpbll> has quit IRC (Quit: inabit. zz.)[00:17:24] <pj> pinPoint: self-signed is fine for smtpd, but if you're running a submission server then MUAs such as thunderbird will complain and require you to accept the cert unless it's from a recognized CA.[00:25:08] *** mikecmpbll <mikecmpbll!~mikecmpbl@ruby/staff/mikecmpbll> has joined #postfix[00:26:00] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has joined #postfix[00:30:12] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has quit IRC (Read error: No route to host)[00:31:31] *** Guest95584 <Guest95584!~kubuntu@95-31-91-15.broadband.corbina.ru> has joined #postfix[00:33:56] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has joined #postfix[00:38:46] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[00:44:50] <pinPoint> pj: I noticed that with TB, thanks.[00:55:17] *** aqua^c <aqua^c!~aqua@114.111.60.64> has joined #postfix[00:55:36] *** Guest95584 <Guest95584!~kubuntu@95-31-91-15.broadband.corbina.ru> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[00:56:02] *** aqua^c <aqua^c!~aqua@114.111.60.64> has left #postfix[00:56:06] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:59:33] *** nutron <nutron!~nutron@unaffiliated/nutron> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[01:00:00] *** nutron <nutron!~nutron@unaffiliated/nutron> has joined #postfix[01:03:13] *** Oclair <Oclair!~Oclair@188-22-97-200.adsl.highway.telekom.at> has joined #postfix[01:09:27] *** joulez <joulez!~lucifurba@pdpc/supporter/active/joulez> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[01:14:57] *** nutron <nutron!~nutron@unaffiliated/nutron> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[01:15:15] *** 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has joined #postfix[03:35:21] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has joined #postfix[03:40:23] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[03:45:33] *** mishehu <mishehu!~mishehu@heartofgold.eyepeeveesicks.shavedgoats.net> has joined #postfix[03:48:16] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has joined #postfix[03:49:53] *** mishehu <mishehu!~mishehu@heartofgold.eyepeeveesicks.shavedgoats.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[03:57:02] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[03:57:26] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[03:59:35] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has joined #postfix[04:02:14] *** disc0 <disc0!~disc0very@static-82-85-147-226.clienti.tiscali.it> has joined #postfix[04:02:16] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[04:03:59] *** zhb <zhb!~zhb@47.91.140.173> has joined #postfix[04:04:08] *** disc0very <disc0very!~disc0very@static-82-85-147-226.clienti.tiscali.it> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[04:04:11] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[04:09:08] *** keanne <keanne!~keanne___@119.92.192.186> has joined #postfix[04:12:14] *** joules <joules!~lucifurba@pdpc/supporter/active/joulez> has joined #postfix[04:28:27] *** chachasmooth <chachasmooth!~chachasmo@unaffiliated/chachasmooth> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[04:36:05] *** chachasmooth <chachasmooth!~chachasmo@unaffiliated/chachasmooth> has joined #postfix[04:38:59] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has joined #postfix[04:39:19] *** froz-gab <froz-gab!~froz-gab@host22-23-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[04:44:32] *** JPT <JPT!~jpt@classified.name> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[04:46:43] *** JPT <JPT!~jpt@classified.name> has joined #postfix[04:46:43] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[04:51:20] <DonRichie> Hi, I found out I can send emails with any identity/from-address . How can I make Postfix refuse to send emails with a value in "from" field which is different than the name of the logged in user?[04:51:30] <DonRichie> Current config: https://paste.ricl.de/view/e24fa0fb[04:52:12] <DonRichie> Ignore last Link: https://paste.ricl.de/view/ab1c2129[04:55:44] *** Chex <Chex!sss@leavingvegas.northnook.ca> has left #postfix[04:56:25] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has joined #postfix[05:01:08] *** Mac_Write <Mac_Write!~Mac@d23-16-14-93.bchsia.telus.net> has joined #postfix[05:01:17] *** heroux <heroux!~heroux@gateway02.insomnia247.nl> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[05:02:01] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[05:11:54] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has joined #postfix[05:16:13] <rob0> !smtpd_sender_login_maps[05:16:13] <knoba> rob0: "smtpd_sender_login_maps" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: Optional lookup table with the SASL login names that own sender (MAIL FROM) addresses.[05:16:18] *** heroux <heroux!~heroux@gateway02.insomnia247.nl> has joined #postfix[05:16:43] <rob0> and a reject_authenticated_sender_login_mismatch to enforce the maps[05:16:59] <rob0> and a reject_authenticated_sender_login_mismatch RESTRICTION to enforce the maps[05:19:34] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[05:20:09] *** heroux <heroux!~heroux@gateway02.insomnia247.nl> has quit IRC (K-Lined)[05:25:07] *** penrod <penrod!~penrod@mail.network1.ca> has quit IRC (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)[05:26:22] *** Mac_Write <Mac_Write!~Mac@d23-16-14-93.bchsia.telus.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)[05:28:48] *** penrod <penrod!~penrod@mail.network1.ca> has joined #postfix[05:43:54] *** Darkclaw66 <Darkclaw66!~Andre@unaffiliated/darkclaw66> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[05:49:42] <rob0> oh, and I just noticed that you said, "'from' field", which I guess refers to the RFC5322.from header. Postfix doesn't do content filtering natively. My answer applied to the RFC5321.mail-from, the "envelope sender".[05:49:48] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has joined #postfix[05:51:00] *** thms <thms!~thms@unaffiliated/thms> has quit IRC (Disconnected by services)[05:51:36] *** thms_ <thms_!~thms@unaffiliated/thms> has joined #postfix[05:54:58] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[05:58:14] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[05:58:35] <pj> !from!=sender[05:58:36] <knoba> pj: "from!=sender" : There are two different from addresses in an email, the From: header and the envelope sender. Postfix only cares about the envelope sender. See also !to!=recipient[05:59:20] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has joined #postfix[06:00:09] *** mishehu <mishehu!~mishehu@heartofgold.eyepeeveesicks.shavedgoats.net> has joined #postfix[06:03:00] <DonRichie> Thanks knoba and rob0. I am trying to make this parameter work. But currently my mysql based Maps have no effect. And I can send from any Identity I set in thunderbird[06:03:08] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[06:04:25] *** mishehu <mishehu!~mishehu@heartofgold.eyepeeveesicks.shavedgoats.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[06:04:34] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[06:07:14] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has joined #postfix[06:07:34] <DonRichie> SELECT username AS allowedUser FROM mailbox WHERE username="%s" AND active = 1 UNION SELECT goto FROM alias WHERE address="%s" AND active = 1[06:08:13] <DonRichie> Thats my query regarding to this file:[06:08:16] <DonRichie> smtpd_sender_login_maps = proxy:mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_sender_login_maps.cf[06:09:08] <DonRichie> I don't understand why the mails are not rejected[06:10:57] <DonRichie> I have reject_sender_login_mismatch and reject_authenticated_sender_login_mismatch in my config now and can still spoof the sender between two users[06:11:43] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[06:12:17] <DonRichie> My main.cf at the moment ist: https://paste.ricl.de/view/77a534a7[06:12:29] <DonRichie> My mysql_sender_login_maps.cf: https://paste.ricl.de/view/a871556d[06:34:38] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has joined #postfix[06:38:16] *** mishehu <mishehu!~mishehu@heartofgold.eyepeeveesicks.shavedgoats.net> has joined #postfix[06:39:40] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has quit IRC (Read error: No route to host)[06:41:32] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has joined #postfix[06:44:55] *** mishehu <mishehu!~mishehu@heartofgold.eyepeeveesicks.shavedgoats.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[06:45:43] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[06:49:05] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has joined #postfix[06:53:27] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[06:54:32] *** mikecmpbll <mikecmpbll!~mikecmpbl@ruby/staff/mikecmpbll> has quit IRC (Quit: inabit. zz.)[07:02:37] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has joined #postfix[07:07:43] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[07:28:30] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has joined #postfix[07:29:46] *** zhb <zhb!~zhb@47.91.140.173> has quit IRC ()[07:33:03] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[07:39:36] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has joined #postfix[07:44:44] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[07:59:06] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[07:59:17] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has joined #postfix[08:04:00] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[08:05:05] *** _ruben <_ruben!~ruben@2a02:bd0:101:3:1ce:c01d:c0ca:c01a> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[08:12:25] *** Mac_Write <Mac_Write!~Mac@d23-16-14-93.bchsia.telus.net> has joined #postfix[08:19:12] *** mishehu <mishehu!~mishehu@heartofgold.eyepeeveesicks.shavedgoats.net> has joined #postfix[08:21:47] *** Phoenixz <Phoenixz!~quassel@187.163.219.201> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[08:21:47] *** KsChoice <KsChoice!~quassel@187-163-219-201.static.axtel.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[08:47:52] *** markus_e92 <markus_e92!~markus_e9@91-115-21-161.adsl.highway.telekom.at> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[08:48:19] <survietamine> are you ignoring answers?[08:52:08] *** markus_e92 <markus_e92!~markus_e9@62-46-31-227.adsl.highway.telekom.at> has joined #postfix[09:00:02] *** Mac_Write <Mac_Write!~Mac@d23-16-14-93.bchsia.telus.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)[09:01:12] *** finster <finster!~finster@unaffiliated/axrfnu> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[09:08:52] *** markus_e92 <markus_e92!~markus_e9@62-46-31-227.adsl.highway.telekom.at> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[09:09:17] *** joules <joules!~lucifurba@pdpc/supporter/active/joulez> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[09:09:40] *** markus_e92 <markus_e92!~markus_e9@62-46-97-220.adsl.highway.telekom.at> has joined #postfix[09:09:57] *** d0nn1e <d0nn1e!~d0nn1e@cpe-24-167-140-225.triad.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[09:10:04] *** mcfate <mcfate!~textual@174-134-145-16.res.bhn.net> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[09:11:11] *** d0nn1e <d0nn1e!~d0nn1e@cpe-24-167-140-225.triad.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[09:12:46] *** joules <joules!~lucifurba@pdpc/supporter/active/joulez> has joined #postfix[09:14:10] *** mcfate <mcfate!~textual@174-134-145-16.res.bhn.net> has joined #postfix[09:44:34] *** mcfate <mcfate!~textual@174-134-145-16.res.bhn.net> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[09:51:24] *** golden_receiver <golden_receiver!~andry@unaffiliated/golden-receiver/x-4949035> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[09:51:35] *** infides_afk <infides_afk!~infides@p4FE75C50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #postfix[09:52:37] *** golden_receiver <golden_receiver!~andry@unaffiliated/golden-receiver/x-4949035> has joined #postfix[09:52:53] *** thms_ <thms_!~thms@unaffiliated/thms> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[09:57:57] *** guampa <guampa!~guampa@unaffiliated/guampa> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[09:59:48] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[10:04:35] *** thms_ <thms_!~thms@unaffiliated/thms> has joined #postfix[10:04:52] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[10:06:03] *** mikecmpbll <mikecmpbll!~mikecmpbl@ruby/staff/mikecmpbll> has joined #postfix[10:25:00] *** julius <julius!~julius@mickeymouse.strangled.net> has left #postfix ("Leaving")[10:32:23] *** systeem <systeem!~systeem@2001:bc8:24e8:800:a:27ba:0:c9f1> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[10:35:23] *** cale250 <cale250!~cale250@unaffiliated/cale250> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[10:36:03] *** systeem <systeem!~systeem@2001:bc8:24e8:800:a:27ba:0:c9f1> has joined #postfix[10:40:15] *** cale250 <cale250!~cale250@unaffiliated/cale250> has joined #postfix[10:41:12] *** dym <dym!~patrick@unaffiliated/dym> has joined #postfix[10:42:47] <dym> Hey all! I have a little problem. A customer is running a cyrus / postfix installation and has a few mailboxes that seemed to be bruteforced and used for spam. althout the passwords were changed. there are still logins and spam sendings "postfix/smtpd[45443]: 0925F1200311: client=na-148-245-141-164.static.avantel.net.mx[148.245.141.164], sasl_method=PLAIN sasl_username=reinhard at ltown dot de"[10:42:53] <dym> how can that possibly be?[10:43:01] <dym> changed password has been verified by login[10:43:52] <survietamine> hello, aren't that messages from queue?[10:44:39] <dym> this is from mail.log[10:44:39] <petn-randall> dym: postqueue -p[10:45:22] <dym> petn-randall: queue has been emptied[10:45:23] <dym> before.[10:46:25] <dym> Those are new mails. I can see the connect and the mail that's inserted into the queue. I do not understand how the authentication can succeed though.[10:49:38] <survietamine> how did you check that "login"?[10:50:08] <dym> survietamine: verified by logging in as said user via their webmail[10:50:19] <dym> (with the new password, obv.)[10:51:00] <survietamine> hmmm[10:54:42] <survietamine> I don't remember well cyrus-sasl, did you check with testsaslauthd?[10:55:05] <survietamine> or try to restart saslauthd[10:59:28] *** markus_e92 <markus_e92!~markus_e9@62-46-97-220.adsl.highway.telekom.at> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[11:01:19] *** markus_e92 <markus_e92!~markus_e9@91-115-16-167.adsl.highway.telekom.at> has joined #postfix[11:08:08] *** keanne <keanne!~keanne___@119.92.192.186> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[11:10:36] *** froz-gab <froz-gab!~froz-gab@host22-23-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it> has joined #postfix[11:29:38] <pj> dym: either (1) the new password has been compromised or brute-forced, (2) the user's computer is compromised so it sends emails with whatever valid current credentials are in the MUA, or (3) the user is spamming.[11:36:19] <dym> mhhh[11:36:28] <dym> Actually after a saslauthd restart, things calmed down[11:37:48] <survietamine> so, maybe some saslauthd caching[11:38:20] <pj> maybe, I suppose that's possible.[11:38:41] <pj> I don't work with cyrus, my installs use dovecot.[11:39:01] <survietamine> yeah, saslauthd is PITA compared to dovecot :p[11:45:29] *** RadoQ <RadoQ!~cheater@unaffiliated/radoq> has joined #postfix[11:50:28] *** infides_afk <infides_afk!~infides@p4FE75C50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[11:58:44] *** k-man <k-man!~jason@unaffiliated/k-man> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[12:00:44] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[12:00:50] *** k-man <k-man!~jason@unaffiliated/k-man> has joined #postfix[12:05:16] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[12:33:49] <Kelsar> can I use warn_if_reject inside maps?[12:46:49] *** Bish <Bish!~arne@p5DF6AB1F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #postfix[12:47:06] <Bish> hi folks, what do i want to do if i won't different relay servers per login?[12:50:32] <Bish> a.e; user1 logins in and his emails will be send by servers smtp1-3.example.com, and for user2 it will be smtp3-6.example.com[12:58:14] *** Zilon <Zilon!~Zilon@www.schem.me> has quit IRC (Quit: Bye)[13:01:26] <Zerberus> !sender_dependent_relayhost_maps[13:01:26] <knoba> Zerberus: "sender_dependent_relayhost_maps" : a configuration directive in main.cf for sender based message routing. See http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#sender_dependent_relayhost_maps[13:01:49] *** Zilon <Zilon!~Zilon@www.schem.me> has joined #postfix[13:01:58] *** infides_afk <infides_afk!~infides@p4FE75C50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #postfix[13:04:51] <Bish> Zerberus: great, thanks[13:04:59] <Bish> if i knew that name would be that ... expressive[13:08:34] *** Xentil <Xentil!~quassel@ip-46-21-210-22.nette.pl> has joined #postfix[13:10:45] *** dka <dka!~dka@1.52.59.85> has joined #postfix[13:18:54] *** idl0r <idl0r!~idl0r@gentoo/developer/idl0r> has left #postfix[13:26:55] <Bish> Zerberus: but sender != logged in user, right? sender is what is in front of @, the "local part"?[13:27:48] <Bish> or am i wrong about that[13:30:13] *** Zilon <Zilon!~Zilon@www.schem.me> has quit IRC (Quit: Bye)[13:34:09] *** Zilon <Zilon!~Zilon@mail.schem.me> has joined #postfix[13:34:33] <Zerberus> Bish: sender is the envelope sender address[13:35:08] <Bish> can i get the same behaviour for the logged-in user?[13:36:14] <Zerberus> Bish: why would you want to? you can map valid sender addresses to SASL logins[13:36:46] <Bish> im writing an application for newsletter-subscriptions[13:36:57] <Bish> and i want a decoupling of ip-reputation per user[13:37:20] <Bish> so if someone sends stupid mails, the other customer wont get penalty for that[13:37:51] <Bish> or.. in future there might be certain servers that get whitelisted, and i don't want everyone to send over those, etc[13:38:40] <Bish> and sender addresses will be user-defined, so i don't know them yet[13:38:50] *** monkeynuts <monkeynuts!~monkeynut@unaffiliated/monkeynuts> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[13:43:18] *** monkeynuts <monkeynuts!~monkeynut@unaffiliated/monkeynuts> has joined #postfix[13:45:38] <patdk-lap> you cannot control that[13:46:29] <patdk-lap> the receiving side can use or not use anything they want, so they can penalize you for whatever they want to[13:46:50] <patdk-lap> and since doing ip reputation is easier than doing sender or dkim or other things, that is normally what they use[13:47:06] <Bish> well, but i want to give people the ip reputation they deserve..[13:47:25] <Bish> if someone "spams", i don't want that to affect my other mail servers[13:47:31] <Bish> although i want to remove spam either way.[13:47:49] <Bish> i cannot have a map for login<=>which servers to use?[13:48:16] <Bish> sure.. the receiving side can penalize all my other mailservers, too, but i mean.. i could minimize that, couldn't i?[13:48:30] *** Madda <Madda!~Madda@hq.m3team.it> has joined #postfix[13:55:09] <Bish> is there anything i can control login-wise[13:59:16] *** xcrracer <xcrracer!~xcrracer@unaffiliated/xcrracer> has joined #postfix[14:00:43] *** puhuri <puhuri!puhuri@freenode/sponsor/puhuri> has quit IRC (Quit: change host)[14:01:14] *** puhuri <puhuri!puhuri@freenode/sponsor/puhuri> has joined #postfix[14:01:31] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[14:06:08] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[14:14:37] *** Oclair <Oclair!~Oclair@188-22-97-200.adsl.highway.telekom.at> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[14:14:57] <Bish> the only idea i had, if postfix doesn't support this is to write sort of a proxy for that.. but i just decided to use postfix without external tools :([14:15:10] <Bish> or are you guys thinking it's really that pointless, that i shouldn't do it at all?[14:17:51] <cpm> fwiw,[14:18:12] <cpm> the idea that you can de-couple the reputation of your email servers is based in a fallacy.[14:18:17] *** Oclair <Oclair!~Oclair@194-166-154-82.adsl.highway.telekom.at> has joined #postfix[14:18:34] <cpm> recipients will filter or not according to essentially their whims.[14:18:57] <Bish> well, and if it's just about load?[14:19:04] <cpm> if you have a smtp server that is spamming, assume that all of your smtp servers will be discovered and handled accordingly.[14:19:08] <Bish> that i won't to give big customers other servers for other reasons than reputation?[14:19:18] <cpm> failure to police your mail policies will have negative effects.[14:19:35] <Bish> cpm: basicially, their ips and domains are totally different.. so, how would they handle it?[14:19:42] <cpm> attempting to protect your non-spammers from your spammers is almost the same thing as protecting your spammers[14:20:07] <Bish> well, i would rather say.. i want to isolate them, so they dont affect my "good" customers[14:20:20] <Bish> ofcourse i will try to minimize any amount of spam[14:20:20] <thumbs> sigh[14:21:03] <Bish> well, but still, even what you say is true, i would like to do this, just for the sake of load-balancing[14:21:06] <Bish> so can i?[14:21:29] <Bish> if you're right, it won't affect my ip-reputation, and i will have to learn it the hard way, i still would need that function[14:22:00] <thumbs> load balancing is not a solution here.[14:22:12] <Bish> well, how can you tell[14:22:20] <Bish> maybe i have a customer that needs 1 server, and the other one needs 100[14:22:34] <thumbs> why would you deploy 100 servers?[14:22:50] <Bish> it's a stupid example.. not real[14:23:00] <Bish> still.. if i want to seperate servers per user.. there is a use case im pretty sure[14:23:05] <Bish> can i do that?[14:23:12] <thumbs> separate servers per user is stupid too.[14:23:19] <Bish> is it possible?[14:24:29] <Bish> i wish, too, that my email servers will deliver any email instantly, and load balancing would not be an issue[14:24:32] <Bish> but that's not the case[14:24:49] <Bish> having more mailservers did more than 1 time result in me keeping my job[14:24:53] <Bish> i don't care if it's stupid[14:24:54] <thumbs> you cannot guarantee deliverability, but you can improve your chances.[14:25:03] <Bish> would you be so kind, and answer my question[14:25:13] <thumbs> I don't care to answer stupid requirements, no.[14:25:31] <Bish> but you care enough to tell me im stupid[14:25:43] <Bish> congrats[14:25:44] <thumbs> I didn't say you were stupid, personally.[14:25:55] <thumbs> I said it's a stupid requirement/idea.[14:26:01] <Bish> yeah, okay[14:26:06] <Bish> i will wait for something willing to help me[14:26:16] <thumbs> good luck with that.[14:26:20] <Bish> thanks[14:28:47] <Bish> i will never understrand why you keep investing time to only tell people that come here that what they do is stupid, but you do no approach at all to help other way, what does this give you?[14:28:51] <Bish> i really don't get it[14:29:06] <Bish> i would totally get it, if you thought to yourself "man this guy is a douche" and ignore it[14:29:10] <Bish> but this.. always.. geez[14:29:14] <thumbs> Bish: the solution is to implement all the measures that will improve your IP reputation.[14:29:28] <Bish> it doesn't matter, i want user-based de-coupling of servers[14:29:30] <Bish> for several reasons[14:29:31] <thumbs> Bish: as stated multiple times.[14:29:37] <thumbs> !tell Bish xy[14:29:37] <knoba> Bish: "xy" : (#1) The XY problem is that you want to do X, but don't know how. You think that you can solve X by doing Y, so you ask us how to do Y. We tell you that's an odd problem to want to solve. Just ask us about the real problem., or (#2) http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem -- I want to do X, but I'm asking how to do Y...[14:29:38] <Bish> it's not only because of ip reputation[14:29:54] <Bish> i know all this stuff, i got it in this channel 100*10^6 times[14:30:07] <Bish> im asking a simple question, and you keep telling me, that this is stupid, instead of helping[14:30:13] <Bish> i need it for several reasons.not for one[14:30:44] <Bish> if i have a server, and it's ip reputation sucks, which i cannot change, i don't this to affect all my users[14:31:02] <Bish> so until i learn, how my server magicially have a good reputation, i would like to have one per user[14:31:19] *** mcfate <mcfate!~textual@174-134-145-16.res.bhn.net> has joined #postfix[14:31:33] <Bish> so, that one customer doesn't cut my head off, just because one other had a virus and spams or something[14:31:42] <Bish> so how on earht, does what you write help me with that problem[14:31:43] <Bish> not at all[14:32:03] <thumbs> well, spammers will be penalized, yes.[14:32:32] <Bish> yes, but since i am not that spammer, but it's my custoemr[14:32:41] <Bish> can he be penalized instead of my other customers?[14:32:50] <Bish> i never said i will not care for spam[14:32:55] <thumbs> you become the spammer. It doesn't matter.[14:33:06] <Bish> so i do it the right way, and lose my job[14:33:13] <Bish> instead of .. doing it.. in a economic way?[14:33:18] <Bish> wow, that sounds like someone would do[14:33:39] *** mcfate <mcfate!~textual@174-134-145-16.res.bhn.net> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[14:33:43] <thumbs> not everyone is cut to run mail servers. It's difficult.[14:34:03] <Bish> especially if there are no nice people in their irc channels[14:34:32] <cpm> end of the day, if you run a mail server that serves the public, you must have clear cut terms of service that are highly prohibitive of spamming, and you must enforce those terms of service firmly.[14:34:33] <thumbs> giving you realistic answers isn't "not being nice"[14:35:07] <Bish> i keep coming here with the mindset, im trying not to get angry, im trying to be nice, but seriously, i could create a channel #getcalledstupid, where is a bot that does the same phrases over and over[14:35:12] <Bish> xy-problem, etc[14:35:16] <Bish> it would be as useful[14:35:35] <thumbs> Bish: you keep joining with the wrong mindset. We offer sensible approaches.[14:35:55] <Bish> no, you keep being smart-assery, instead of trying to help.. you might be right with all you said.. but you learn by doing mistakes[14:35:56] <thumbs> Bish: don't let your lack of professional maturity hinder you.[14:36:06] <Bish> i can't do mistakes if your help is "you're stupid, help yourself otherway"[14:36:16] <Bish> yeah what you do is very mature.. im sure[14:36:18] <thumbs> Bish: we never called you "stupid".[14:36:39] <Bish> subtext, you don't have to have an advanced intellect like yours to see that[14:36:51] <Bish> i just wished i knew why you do this[14:37:01] <thumbs> now if you can stop with the attacks, it would be wonderful.[14:37:21] <Bish> i wish i could call that attacking.. but i will stop. no worries[14:38:10] <Bish> cpm: i never said i wouldn't.. i just don't want to close my business, as soon i do a mistake[14:38:37] <Bish> ofcourse i won't ignore spammers.. i even function in my software, that tries to find spam before it gets sent.[14:38:47] <Bish> but if it was that easy.. there would be not spam, would it?[14:39:09] <thumbs> running a mail server is not easy, no.[14:41:11] <thumbs> a single spam sent from your server isn't likely to damage your reputation irreparably.[14:41:23] <thumbs> repeated behaviour, however, will.[14:41:54] <Bish> even without that, i would still like to have that function, as i told you[14:42:49] <Bish> for numerous reasons[14:42:57] <Bish> hell even if it was just debugging[14:43:10] <cpm> smtp reputation services of any consequence offer remediation options. The reasons for getting listed are often pretty clear. The manner in which one may get de-listed are often spelled out. Without knowing *specifically* what issues you face, it's just conjecture on how to fix a hypothetical. As others have pointed out, no one really has much control over how others manage their mail servers. Best you can do is keep close tabs on the behavior of your[14:43:11] <cpm> rs and be very proactive to head off any problems. Once problems have taken root, as you have expressed, it can be a lot of work to dig yourself out. Trying to side-step fixing the actual problem often results in just adding complexity in vain.[14:43:41] <Bish> >numerous reasons[14:43:50] <Bish> >not only ip reputation[14:46:24] <survietamine> I still don't get what you plan to do with some newsletter and your mail server[14:46:36] <survietamine> isn't just having some mailing-list with moderation not enough?[14:50:23] *** Bish <Bish!~arne@p5DF6AB1F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[14:52:24] *** Bish <Bish!~arne@p5DF6AB1F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #postfix[14:57:15] <thumbs> he clearly has undisclosed motives, yes.[14:59:49] <cpm> I need to continue to spam, and not suffer consequences, , how do I do this?[14:59:55] <cpm> should be a factoid[15:00:58] <patdk-wk> bish you should not spam[15:01:12] <patdk-wk> there is no need to minimize consquences if you just don't send spam[15:02:59] <survietamine> « I'm not spamming, my users are. »[15:03:00] <survietamine> :D[15:03:01] <cpm> yeah, even if the hypothetical he stated, of a hacked account spewing horrors, monitoring would have shown that even within a few hours at worst, and it could have been dealt with swiftly, with minimal consequence.[15:03:40] <cpm> "gee, why am i getting a buncha 4xx and 5xx in the logs? Oh crap! My bad! whoops!"[15:04:11] *** infides_afk <infides_afk!~infides@p4FE75C50.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[15:04:19] <patdk-wk> or you could have just been emailing yahoo :)[15:04:24] <patdk-wk> 4xx's are common to them[15:04:44] <cpm> yeah, but when they stack up, ,[15:04:59] <cpm> like, well, , you know.[15:05:45] <thumbs> protecting a spammer^Hcustomer isn't worth it, no matter how much they pay you[15:06:10] <cpm> unless that is your business model, but then you need #more_clever[15:06:15] <thumbs> hah[15:06:39] <patdk-wk> cpm, I thought that was what botnet purchases where for[15:07:15] <cpm> yeah, I'm not that clever. that takes more clever than I have.[15:07:58] <cpm> I honestly cannot imagine some bitcoin darknet purchase that wouldn't bite me hard pretty much almost before the deal was closed. :)[15:08:44] <lunaphyte> well that's your problem right there[15:09:03] <lunaphyte> you want a *dorknet* purchase, not a darknet purchase![15:09:19] <cpm> Doh![15:09:25] <cpm> see?[15:09:33] <cpm> need #more_clever[15:09:42] <thumbs> cpm definitely isn't clever.[15:09:56] <cpm> indeed[15:14:50] <survietamine> he, offtopic, but about bitcoin, do you think blockchain will be everywhere? https://www.ted.com/talks/don_tapscott_how_the_blockchain_is_changing_money_and_business[15:15:35] <Bish> ... clearly has undisclosed motives?[15:15:50] <Bish> i stated 10128312837 times that i would not spam[15:16:03] <Bish> if i wanted to spam i would spam something that is more lucrative than smtp, believe me, i fukin hate emails[15:16:25] <Bish> i just don't understand why this channel doesn't help people[15:16:54] <Bish> i came here already, with 5 different questions, got the same answers "your requirements are stupid", yeh okay[15:16:56] <Bish> whatever guys[15:17:15] <survietamine> imho, it's easy to understand[15:17:18] <Bish> there is nothing "undisclosed" i have a simple question, and you rather spend 30 mins ranting than helping[15:17:42] <survietamine> helpers in this channel are not paid to help, you need some requirements to admin a mail server[15:17:56] <survietamine> so, instead a human repeating each time same text, a robot does that[15:18:03] <survietamine> I don't get what's wrong with that[15:18:27] <survietamine> I'm myself newbie and I appreciate help in this channel[15:18:35] <survietamine> #bash does same[15:18:56] <Bish> it's not the only irc channel i am in, and IT-people are always difficult[15:19:02] <survietamine> and if you compare with some channels that don't like ##linux, it's completely a mess[15:19:12] <Bish> but this is the worst, i came here with 1238123 different topics, i always get the same stupid generic answers[15:19:18] <Bish> and also pretty rude[15:19:19] <survietamine> those channels like web forums that upvote wrong answers[15:19:25] <survietamine> it's not expert helping[15:20:05] <Bish> and this "im not helping, because your question is stupid, even though i know the answer", how old are you emotionally, 5[15:20:16] <Bish> why can't you say " you could do x, but x is pretty stupid, don't do it"[15:20:23] <survietamine> maybe you have 1238123 « bad ideas », I, personnally don't remember you questions and anyway, I don't have the skill to answer correctly[15:20:25] <Bish> nah, that be crazy, rather spent 30 mins feeling superior[15:20:49] <Bish> survietamine: you can't remember my question because im discussion the metaquestion for an hour[15:20:54] <Bish> instead of getting help[15:21:00] <Bish> and get accused of weird motives[15:21:20] <survietamine> that sounds to me like "I'd like to make my care very noisy, pleas help me" and people tell "don't do that"[15:21:25] <patdk-wk> Bish, you haven't asked any question[15:21:36] <patdk-wk> you only stated you don't want your email tied to ip reputation[15:21:39] <patdk-wk> and I said that is impossible[15:21:40] <Bish> i want a mapping, from users, to relayhost.[15:21:41] <survietamine> s/care/care[15:21:42] <survietamine> s/care/car[15:21:52] <survietamine> damnit, i return to my mail server migration :/[15:21:52] <Bish> patdk-wk: bullshit, i never said that, that's what people make my question about but its not[15:22:11] <patdk-wk> <Bish> im writing an application for newsletter-subscriptions[15:22:12] <patdk-wk> and i want a decoupling of ip-reputation per user[15:22:23] <Bish> i specified that.. 101023123 times[15:22:24] <Bish> i want[15:22:31] <Bish> login=>servermapping[15:22:41] <Bish> that's i want, for numerous reasons, even if it doesn't help me with ip reputation[15:22:44] <Bish> i said that.[15:22:59] <patdk-wk> I dunno what your saying now[15:23:03] <patdk-wk> let along saw anything else[15:23:16] <patdk-wk> !transport_maps[15:23:16] <knoba> patdk-wk: "transport_maps" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: Optional lookup tables with mappings from recipient address to (message delivery transport, next-hop destination). See transport(5) for details.[15:23:38] <Bish> i want this:[15:23:41] <cpm> there are relay maps that will do that, and you can map against sasl-auth for that behavior.[15:23:44] <Bish> http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#sender_dependent_relayhost_maps[15:23:51] <Bish> but not dependant on the sender address[15:23:54] <Bish> but on the login the user used[15:24:09] <Bish> cpm: wow! that'd be great![15:24:13] *** chaas_ <chaas_!~quassel@moss.workaround.org> has quit IRC (Changing host)[15:24:13] *** chaas_ <chaas_!~quassel@debian/developer/pdpc.active.haas> has joined #postfix[15:24:17] *** chaas_ is now known as Signum[15:25:04] <Bish> 12:46 < Bish> hi folks, what do i want to do if i won't different relay servers per login?[15:25:07] <Bish> 12:50 < Bish> a.e; user1 logins in and his emails will be send by servers smtp1-3.example.com, and for user2 it will be smtp3-6.example.com[15:25:10] <Bish> this is my original question, btw[15:25:20] <Bish> everything which came additionally was made up in the discussion[15:26:50] <survietamine> and that was answered[15:27:02] <Bish> where, by whom?[15:27:29] <Bish> survietamine: and i didn't say "it's my users that spam" jesus fukin christ you people[15:27:55] <patdk-wk> bish, cursing is not for this channel[15:28:09] <patdk-wk> I never said you said, it's your users that spam[15:28:14] <Bish> yeah well, can't believe that doesn't happen now and then when you help people[15:28:22] <patdk-wk> if you want to talk in gereralities and curse at people that attempt to help[15:28:26] <survietamine> no, you didn't say that, it was me, just as joke[15:28:36] <survietamine> so, sorry, if you took that as an offense[15:28:38] <Bish> yeah, but why you mock me, it's not like i did anything to you[15:28:44] <Bish> ofcourse i took it as an offense, because it was[15:28:56] <patdk-wk> your bitching and cursing that people in here don't care and won't help[15:28:57] <survietamine> no, I'm not really angry about you or something[15:29:11] *** mishehu <mishehu!~mishehu@heartofgold.eyepeeveesicks.shavedgoats.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[15:29:14] <patdk-wk> I don't remember doing any of this, and have attempted to help, sorry, I won't help anymore if you don't want help[15:29:39] <patdk-wk> !tell bish welcome[15:29:40] <knoba> bish: "welcome" : Welcome to #postfix! If you're new here, or to IRC, first read the channel topic (/topic). It has important instructions on how to ask good questions. You will get more and better help if you follow those instructions. Good Luck![15:29:48] *** DarkPsydeLord <DarkPsydeLord!~DarkPsyde@189-210-177-172.static.axtel.net> has joined #postfix[15:29:51] <survietamine> but your attitude is common to many people coming here with not-so-good-ideas and are angry because helpers dare to say that are not good ideas[15:30:18] <Bish> well, as i said, this isn't my first day in irc, this channel is very special[15:30:19] <survietamine> he doesn't like factoids, maybe just /ignore is simpler[15:30:35] *** voidy <voidy!~tom@gateway.t0mb.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[15:30:39] <survietamine> no, as I said, it's not the only one channel that does that[15:30:50] <survietamine> #bash too, and others expert channels[15:30:51] <Bish> does what? i cannot express this without cursing.[15:30:53] <patdk-wk> this channel is special? no[15:31:04] <Bish> patdk-wk: it is, i get things in here, i get nowhere[15:31:06] *** mcfate <mcfate!~textual@174-134-145-16.res.bhn.net> has joined #postfix[15:31:16] <patdk-wk> every channel I am in, is the same[15:31:23] <survietamine> so, if you only go to #general_purpose channels and appreciate random answers with random quality, it's your choice[15:31:41] <survietamine> so, try to ask your question in ##linux, you'll get that random answer[15:31:49] <survietamine> or some web forum[15:31:49] <patdk-wk> the channel has rules, the rules are posted in the topic for all to see[15:31:53] <Bish> ? my question was super specific[15:32:06] <Bish> and people chose not to answer it because it's stupid what i am trying to do[15:32:07] <patdk-wk> your question was generic, and not specific at all[15:32:12] <cpm> this channel is very special in that many folks come here trying to work around the problems encountered from running spammy mail servers, rather than fixing that problem, they want work arounds, and enabling that behavior is self-defeating. spam is a common-core challenge to all of us, and lassitude in dealing with it effects us all.[15:32:30] <survietamine> once, I agree with you, you get things here you get nowhere, that makes this channel helpful and unique[15:33:14] <Bish> best thing i got in here was "i read this manpage about configuration paramter xyz, can somebody explain please how this work, please don't just link me the manpage, i read it, and i don't understand it"[15:33:19] <Bish> bam, gets manpage linked[15:33:59] <Bish> it's a level of rudeness i get nowhere in irc, and i really struggle to believe people remain calm for long, or they're despreate[15:34:07] <patdk-wk> bish, no idea what your talking about[15:34:14] <Bish> patdk-wk: well, i do[15:34:21] <patdk-wk> this happened in the last hour?[15:34:24] <Bish> no[15:34:29] <Bish> this was the last time i got kicked in here[15:34:33] <survietamine> so, because I'm stupid, I asked stupid questions in here, and others channels like #bash, #awk, #bind, and they were rude, and I liked it. Maybe am I masochist? Or am I just humble enough to accept experts point of view base on their experience?[15:34:42] <patdk-wk> well, you will have to discuss this with the people that did that then[15:34:45] <patdk-wk> nothing can be done about it now[15:34:48] <Bish> survietamine: maybe, i don't know[15:35:06] <Bish> patdk-wk: i just wanted to express, if you ever wonder why people feel offended by this channel[15:35:09] <Bish> i can very well tell you why[15:35:19] <patdk-wk> I don't really care what people feel or do[15:35:23] <patdk-wk> this is free help[15:35:32] <patdk-wk> I am talking time out of my life to deal with your bitching[15:35:35] <Bish> well, some people care enough to chat 3 hours about how stupid a question is[15:35:40] <Bish> i am not bitching, im trying to explain[15:35:45] <patdk-wk> and that is ALL your doing[15:35:48] <patdk-wk> and why no one want s to help you[15:36:06] <survietamine> yeah, others will just don't care your question and ignore it and you just get silence[15:36:07] <patdk-wk> what people feel is important and care about for them, is their own issues[15:36:15] <patdk-wk> getting people to care about YOUR issue, is YOUR problem[15:36:17] <Bish> this is pointless, i gonna stop, cpm i would be grateful if you could lead me to the manpage, where i can do that mapping you talked about[15:36:24] <Bish> patdk-wk: no, i don't care if people care aobut me..[15:36:31] <Bish> they could ignore me, and that's totally cool[15:36:34] <patdk-wk> then why come in here and ask for help at all?[15:36:36] <Bish> if someone did not want to help me, it's great[15:36:44] <Bish> patdk-wk: i am explaining that right now[15:36:53] <patdk-wk> yes, you want someone to care to help you[15:37:02] <patdk-wk> but you don't want anyone to criticize or comment about you[15:37:08] <survietamine> you know what? Some askers also complain about the fact noone is answering[15:37:08] <patdk-wk> only andswer your damned question[15:37:11] <Bish> yes, listen: i want to come here, ask a question, get help OR NOT), it's fine[15:37:28] <Bish> but people telling me 30 mins that they basicially know the answer, but dont want to help me because im stupid[15:37:34] <Bish> survietamine: yeah that's great, but that's not me[15:37:45] <survietamine> no, I personnally don't know the answers to your questions[15:37:46] <Bish> and i get treated as if[15:37:51] <Bish> survietamine: i never said that either[15:38:20] <survietamine> and I don't remember telling you your questions are stupid. Maybe I did, but I don't remember that[15:38:34] <Bish> survietamine: what makes you think i am talking about you, you joined way later[15:38:42] <survietamine> anyway, who cares what I answered because I'm not a helper :D[15:39:44] <Bish> i apologize for not remaining calm, im sorry.[15:41:17] <survietamine> so, the answers Zerberus provided are not sufficient to your goal?[15:41:27] <cpm> it's pretty normal for folks to think that things are just happily running along swimmingly, then one day, Ding! Problem! and rather than deal with that problem, they start coming up with all sorts of convoluted work arounds to avoid the problem. When what needs to happen, is that $problem must be addressed, so that things can go back to working swimmingly.[15:41:42] <cpm> often, things weren't actually going all that well in the first place.[15:42:11] <cpm> the oft-referred-to 'spammy' user, or 'hacked account' is the straw man folks throw up.[15:42:32] <cpm> and that's fine, we've all been there. But addressing *THAT* is the proverbial stitch-in-time[15:43:05] <cpm> which is why folks start asking for specifics.[15:43:11] <survietamine> that remembers me some coworker, all discussions we had ended with "I'm pragmatic, stop annoying me with all that"[15:43:34] <thumbs> Bish: you have to stop thinking that folks think you're stupid[15:44:01] <cpm> hell, we're *all* stupid. hence smtp. :)[15:44:47] <cpm> and fwiw, when folks respond by dodging putting up an actual demonstrable scenario, years of experience are condensed into skepticism about the actual motive.[15:45:03] <survietamine> yes, but, maybe using "stupid" word, even if it's about someone idea is not so great because he will feel offensed[15:45:30] <Bish> i canÄt show an demonstrable scenario, since the system is in the makin[15:45:58] <thumbs> then you're solving a non-problem[15:46:04] <Bish> my original question stated very well what i want, and if thats stupid, okay[15:46:15] <Bish> it might be stupid, but i want to do that mistake[15:46:17] <patdk-wk> !goal[15:46:18] <knoba> patdk-wk: "goal" : describe your goal, not what you think the solution is[15:46:32] <cpm> using multiple mtas, with separated taskings, (such as in-bound/out-bound) is very common place. there are all kinds of reasons to do this, mostly based on volumes and loads, and all sorts of ways to achieve it.[15:47:22] <Bish> yes, i wanted the seperate sending servers, maybe just because im noobish, but i want to make that experience[15:47:23] <cpm> protecting the reputation of the mail server is pretty much a priority 1 job of the postmaster.[15:48:16] <Bish> i don't think i could learn anything if i do a question-marathon here, until you answered how YOU would've created the systme[15:48:25] <cpm> for the postmaster, the entire world is your user base.[15:51:07] <Bish> i didn't run yet in actual problems.. im trying to avoid problems in the first place, maybe because i am naive, yes[15:51:10] <Bish> might be[15:51:16] <Bish> still wished i just got the answer to that[15:52:37] <Bish> so i don't even have a problem that i could address, yet[15:53:25] <thumbs> so stop breaking your head, then[15:53:40] *** KsChoice <KsChoice!~quassel@187-163-219-201.static.axtel.net> has joined #postfix[15:53:44] <Bish> how am i breaking my head?[15:54:10] *** Phoenixz <Phoenixz!~quassel@187-163-219-201.static.axtel.net> has joined #postfix[15:55:01] <thumbs> by continuing this painful conversation.[15:55:22] <Bish> yeah.. well, i still don't know how i would do what i want to[15:56:09] <thumbs> why do you want to run multiple multiple mtas?[15:56:21] <Bish> so we're back at the beginning,great[15:56:44] <Bish> for example: there might be whitelisted servers, i only want certain users to have access to[15:56:47] <Bish> maybe higher paying users.[15:57:08] <thumbs> wrong approach.[15:57:16] <cpm> ^^^^^^^[15:57:25] <Bish> sigh.[15:57:27] <thumbs> and there is not such thing as a whitelisted server, unless you control both ends.[15:57:30] <Bish> still people do it[15:58:03] <Bish> https://de.certified-senders.eu/ <= what's this[15:58:06] <Bish> hoax?[15:58:12] <thumbs> Bish: you should ask those people, then.[15:58:23] <patdk-wk> no idea what that is, I don't use it[15:58:26] <Bish> so you're saying it just doesn't work, that's weird, because i've seen it work[15:58:31] <patdk-wk> they are not WHITELISTED for any of my servers[15:58:53] <Bish> yeah that's cool, but for people like aol yahoo, gmx it is[15:58:57] <cpm> further, it won't work. a spammy server *will* be researched, and *all* servers that can be tied to it will eventually suffer the same reputation. It can spread to the upstream ISP and even further, which can and does result in the ISP taking action, upto and including dropping you as a customer.[15:59:06] <thumbs> Bish: no, they are not.[15:59:27] <Bish> cpm: when did i say i spam[15:59:49] <thumbs> Bish: you keep insisting that your assumptions are right.[16:00:03] <Bish> i seen csa whitelisted server being a lot less painful in the ass, yes[16:00:10] <Bish> it is a use case for me,[16:00:35] <Bish> you want to help me with that?[16:01:09] <thumbs> Bish: whitelisting means that you control both the sending and receiving end.[16:01:23] <cpm> build an MTA that works correctly, follows all the relevant RFCs, and eventually after being in use for a while, it will have a good reputation. No 'whitelisting' required.[16:01:23] <thumbs> Bish: it's used internally in larger organizations.[16:01:40] <Bish> this is just ridiculous[16:02:01] <patdk-wk> heh?[16:02:13] <patdk-wk> the whole way the world works is, but what specifically now is your issue?[16:02:18] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[16:02:29] <thumbs> Bish: personally, I think you won't gain anything from banging your fists on the wall.[16:02:40] <Bish> in this channel, it seems to be the case, yes[16:02:43] <thumbs> Bish: take a break, go see a movie, start with a clear head[16:02:55] <Bish> i won't come up with another approach.[16:02:56] <thumbs> Bish: perhaps /part if your best bet then[16:03:16] <Bish> because i have thought alot about it, i have many reasons why i want to do it this way[16:03:27] <Bish> maybe it's because it's naive, yes, but i cannot do it any other way, because i am naive[16:03:43] <Bish> you don't want to help, and rather spent hours telling me how wrong i am, instead of just answering[16:03:49] <Bish> man i wish i had that time[16:03:52] *** Bish <Bish!~arne@p5DF6AB1F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has left #postfix[16:04:43] <patdk-wk> we aren't here for theory though[16:04:48] <patdk-wk> if you want that, take this to the mailing list[16:04:55] <patdk-wk> if you want help with problems, sure[16:07:00] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[16:07:09] <cpm> it's interesting, , , like digging at a splinter.[16:07:56] <cpm> I want to sender-map to specific smtp outbound. Okay, fine. I want to $thatstuff to direct higher paying customers to smtp with better reputation is a fallacy.[16:08:49] <cpm> unless $much higher paying, where you can buy spam permission from various folks, like gmail, etc. :)[16:09:00] <rob0> BTW after seeing only a small part of the scrollback, answer to his first question might be check_sasl_access in 3.x[16:09:06] <cpm> but that's not in the scope of running mail servers.[16:09:17] <cpm> rob0, it is.[16:09:40] <rob0> sas;-login-name FILTER smtp:that-user's-relayhost[16:10:14] <cpm> also smtp_sender_dependent_authentication, sender_dependent_relayhost_maps, blah blah. WHich Zerberus hit him with right off.[16:10:50] <rob0> yeah, definitely sounds like XY, if he thinks he can keep a clean reputation on an address serving spammy customers[16:11:08] <cpm> but he pretty much right off started to drift into how to save his users from bad reputation smtp servers, but routing to different ip addresses, which raised big flags.[16:11:24] <cpm> s/but/by[16:11:36] <thumbs> yes, I don't trust him whatsoever.[16:13:16] <cpm> "tell me where your servers are, , so I can just static blacklist them" :)[16:13:28] <rob0> of course the check_sasl_access is silly anyway -- just implement different servers for different users, give them creds and hostnames to use as appropriate[16:13:54] <cpm> ya[16:14:41] <cpm> but that too is silly, depending on how many users. Again, he wouldn't really touch queries about the scale.[16:14:52] <rob0> I get so tired of XY questions seriously; generally from people who have no clue but who get very angry when people realize how clueless they are.[16:15:00] <cpm> further, he alluded to failing and losing job, which sorta contradicts 'this is all theory' thing.[16:15:49] <cpm> well, getting angry is a pretty good clue that folks are scared. That's okay, it happens, usually they calm down if they have a real issue.[16:19:16] <thumbs> I'm not very sympathetic in those cases.[16:19:26] <thumbs> HELP ME OR I WILL LOSE MY JOB[16:20:06] <cpm> that's okay, just calm down and provide requested info so folks can help. But, , $CONFESS_SINS ! :)[16:20:17] <cpm> very hard. :)[16:21:19] <rob0> okay, enough of that; I didn't read the whole scrollback, but I got enough. Sounds like he is trying to be an ESP of sorts for spammy customers with bad lists.[16:22:03] <rob0> I would have suggested mailchimp or similar to him. And they'd terminate him.[16:23:37] * cpm suggests , , , , ,[16:24:09] <PaulePanter> Just an update to my problem from two or three weeks ago. PIX workarounds don’t seem to be required for newer Cisco appliances.[16:24:29] <PaulePanter> I disabled them for now. Let’s see how many faulty ones are still out there.[16:24:52] <patdk-wk> there is no way for postfix to know if your on newer or older pix/asa/...[16:25:04] <PaulePanter> I guess Postfix is unable to determine by default, if such a workaround is needed or not, that means if it talks to a newer or older Cisco appliance?[16:27:41] <PaulePanter> `smtp_pix_workarounds = disable_esmtp,delay_dotcrlf` seems to be the default.[16:28:01] <PaulePanter> patdk-wk: I am not using the Cisco stuff. It’s on the receiver side, which I do not control.[16:29:07] <patdk-wk> I thought that few weeks back, it was on your side[16:29:17] <patdk-wk> as no one else had the cisco pix smtp stuff[16:30:10] *** pti-jean_ <pti-jean_!~quassel@161.25.124.78.rev.sfr.net> has joined #postfix[16:30:33] <rob0> we could not pinPoint exactly where the proxy was. It could be that the site had a dual-Internet connection with the proxy only on one of the connections.[16:30:35] *** Madda <Madda!~Madda@hq.m3team.it> has quit IRC (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)[16:31:05] <rob0> but sometimes we saw it, sometimes we didn't[16:32:32] <cpm> pixie stuff, , sometimes it's there, sometimes it's in alternative universe.[16:34:16] <PaulePanter> patdk-wk: It is mailhub.ice.mpg.de and smtp.ice.mpg.de, which I don’t control.[16:34:28] <PaulePanter> bbl[16:34:47] *** mcfate <mcfate!~textual@174-134-145-16.res.bhn.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)[16:35:12] *** pti-jean__ <pti-jean__!~quassel@214.17.124.78.rev.sfr.net> has joined #postfix[16:36:38] *** pti-jean_ <pti-jean_!~quassel@161.25.124.78.rev.sfr.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[16:42:17] *** Phoenixz <Phoenixz!~quassel@187-163-219-201.static.axtel.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:42:17] *** KsChoice 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seconds)[21:04:01] <J0hnSteel> hello all it seems that for some reason my mail ip is blocked by google and hotmail. all I see is timeouts and when I try using telnet it hangs. from my computer everything works(telnet test). how I might resolve this?[21:04:48] <Poster> Does it work to other mail exchangers?[21:05:00] <Poster> I know Comcast blocks outbound port 25[21:05:28] <J0hnSteel> @Poster I tried to connect to yahoo no problem there[21:05:52] *** Darcidride <Darcidride!~Darcidrid@2a01:e35:8b4a:ca10:8805:b6c:92e6:5d95> has quit IRC (Quit: Bye.)[21:06:20] <Poster> ok so this probably is something happening with your ISP or the remote side, not much we can do here to help either[21:06:58] <cpm> what is your mta hostname?[21:07:00] <Poster> you may be able to route around it be defining your ISP's mail server as a relay host via transport[21:08:24] <J0hnSteel> thank Poster I'll try that.[21:10:50] <Poster> http://www.postfix.org/transport.5.html[21:10:59] <rob0> what hostnames are you testing? Are they known public MX hosts?[21:11:09] <rob0> Poster, simpler than that,[21:11:17] <rob0> !relayhost[21:11:17] <knoba> rob0: "relayhost" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: The default host to send non-local mail to when no entry is matched in the optional transport(5) table. When no relayhost is given, mail is routed directly to the destination. If your relay host requires authentication see the !saslclient channel factoid.[21:11:31] <Poster> yeah that would be global[21:11:39] <Poster> I was suggesting a per domain workaround either can work[21:11:48] <rob0> oh, I see[21:12:09] <rob0> I was thinking[21:12:19] <rob0> !port_25_block[21:12:19] <knoba> rob0: "port_25_block" : Many consumer-grade ISPs (and some which claim to be for business, such as Godaddy) block outbound port 25/tcp traffic to prevent abuse from their network. If your ISP does this, you should see the !basic and !relayhost factoids. Or, upgrade to business-class service (or change ISP if you already had it.)[21:12:48] <Poster> yeah J0hnSteel noted that outbound to Yahoo is ok[21:12:59] <Poster> I thought that might have been the case though[21:13:26] <rob0> but it could be faulty testing; we see that a lot[21:13:34] <Poster> it's true[21:14:36] <rob0> J0hnSteel, try connecting to port 25 at my MX, harrier.slackbuilds.org[21:14:44] <Poster> When I had to relay through a consumer grade Internet link, I ultimately did the relayhost for everything outbound. Aside from the possibility of getting blocked, I found many RBLs would block dynamic address blocks handed out by my ISP and I suspect others[21:14:56] <rob0> oh yes[21:15:03] <rob0> !pbl[21:15:03] <knoba> rob0: "pbl" : The Spamhaus PBL is a DNSBL database of end-user IP address ranges which should not be delivering unauthenticated SMTP email to any Internet mail server except those provided for specifically by an ISP for that customer's use. It is part of Zen as well.[21:15:12] <Poster> ^^^[21:19:31] <J0hnSteel> Poster I tried telnet to your host and as rob0 suggested port 25 is probably blocked by ISP. Had no trouble last week,isp relaying is the next option.[21:21:25] <Poster> ok that was rob0's host, but yeah it sounds like you're getting some blocking somewhere, if that's true, the relayhost option may be better just to cover all your bases[21:24:05] *** pti-jean <pti-jean!~quassel@64.92.119.78.rev.sfr.net> has joined #postfix[21:26:12] *** pti-jean__ <pti-jean__!~quassel@57.52.124.78.rev.sfr.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[21:36:57] *** pti-jean <pti-jean!~quassel@64.92.119.78.rev.sfr.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[21:38:22] *** Dessa <Dessa!~Dessa@kvirc/staff/Dessa> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)[21:41:17] *** pti-jean_ <pti-jean_!~quassel@133.41.124.78.rev.sfr.net> has joined #postfix[21:42:49] *** Dessa <Dessa!~Dessa@pku74f0o.dip0.t-iqconnect.de> has joined #postfix[21:49:32] *** pti-jean_ <pti-jean_!~quassel@133.41.124.78.rev.sfr.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[21:49:52] *** pti-jean <pti-jean!~quassel@169.31.124.78.rev.sfr.net> has joined #postfix[21:54:22] *** pti-jean <pti-jean!~quassel@169.31.124.78.rev.sfr.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[21:54:31] *** pti-jean <pti-jean!~quassel@135.23.124.78.rev.sfr.net> has joined #postfix[21:58:05] *** pti-jean__ <pti-jean__!~quassel@147.40.124.78.rev.sfr.net> has joined #postfix[21:59:09] *** pti-jean <pti-jean!~quassel@135.23.124.78.rev.sfr.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[22:04:34] *** Dessa <Dessa!~Dessa@pku74f0o.dip0.t-iqconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)[22:05:48] *** Dessa <Dessa!~Dessa@pku74f0o.dip0.t-iqconnect.de> has joined #postfix[22:06:35] *** Dessa <Dessa!~Dessa@pku74f0o.dip0.t-iqconnect.de> has quit IRC (Changing host)[22:06:35] *** Dessa <Dessa!~Dessa@kvirc/staff/Dessa> has joined #postfix[22:40:26] *** Nit_ <Nit_!nit@saphire.uk.to> has joined #postfix[23:05:27] *** armguy <armguy!~adminempi@unaffiliated/adminempire-jl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[23:07:56] *** pti-jean__ <pti-jean__!~quassel@147.40.124.78.rev.sfr.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[23:08:25] *** pti-jean <pti-jean!~quassel@158.28.124.78.rev.sfr.net> has joined #postfix[23:08:56] *** Xentil <Xentil!~quassel@ip-46-21-210-22.nette.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. 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