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   February 23, 2017
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[01:14:42] <MarcWeber> How important is setting up dmbarc.org like DNS entries today?
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[01:18:55] <rjsalts> MarcWeber: It depends on how much and what type of outgoing mail you have and who you're trying to send to
[01:19:46] <MarcWeber> About 100 to 300 makreting emails to find sponsoring for 10 life events. Targets are "companies". I was told that a lot of emails were not delivered.
[01:20:08] <MarcWeber> Till yesterday all I knew about was blacklists (baracuda and similar).
[01:21:14] <MarcWeber> And the same source wondered whether most email marketing comopanies fail at technical expertise (not setting up such dmarc like validation correctly).
[01:21:49] <rjsalts> MarcWeber: the big email receivers; google, yahoo, hotmail, aol(?); seem to be building reputation based on spf/dkim and it will certainly give you insight as to whether any email arriving at these providers is being forged from your domains and/or being forwarded to them by third parties if you publish dmarc records
[01:21:51] <MarcWeber> dmarc has been there for 2+ years (?) so I expect that most companies specializing on email marketing know about it.
[01:23:14] <rjsalts> MarcWeber: but if people are hitting the "This is spam" button in their webmail for emails you've sent then publishing dmarc won't really help in terms of emails successfully delivered to inboxes
[01:24:07] <MarcWeber> Do the big companies filter based on sender email and talk to each other?
[01:25:12] <MarcWeber> How long doese gray listing take usually till emails get delivered?
[01:25:52] <rjsalts> MarcWeber: either your ip address will get a bad reputation (if you have no spf records for your domain, or you don't sign emails with dkim in your domain, or all the domains from that ip have complaints), or your domain will get a bad reputation (if the ip address is mixed spam/ham and they can do dkim and/or spf auth for a domain)
[01:26:58] <rjsalts> MarcWeber: not particularly on the sharing data. They may use similar 3rd party data sources, or get enough information across their own user base
[01:27:31] <rjsalts> MarcWeber: and most of them guard their spam mitigation policies fiercely
[01:27:55] <MarcWeber> If you send 100 to 300 mails via united-domains for instance black listing an IP doesn't make sense probbaly - beacuse I think they have their own email servers..
[01:30:07] <rjsalts> in short, there is no hard and fast rules on what you should do to make sure more email is received. There are only rough guidelines and various hoops you can jump through interacting with receivers like feedback loops, postmaster tools, etc.
[01:30:28] <MarcWeber> And whats preventing spammers from setting up DKIM / SPF ?
[01:31:14] <rjsalts> nothing, but their reputation will usually be trash once a few people complain about their email, and will remain that way until people stop complaining
[01:32:07] <MarcWeber> So those technologies might have an effect but not will not increase open rate by 900% or so ..
[01:32:47] <rjsalts> they can also give you some intelligence about where your email is getting to
[01:34:32] <rjsalts> e.g. spf https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7208#page-58 shows you v=spf1 exists:_h.%{h}._l.%{l}._o.%{o}._i.%{i}._spf.%{d} ?all
[01:35:48] <rjsalts> the %{...} are macros which are expanded, %{h} is the helo, %{l} is the local part of the sender, etc
[01:35:59] <rjsalts> envelope sender that is
[01:36:41] <rjsalts> same with dmarc
[01:36:56] <rjsalts> and dkim
[01:39:18] <rjsalts> you can sign with a different selector for each campaign/recipient/whatever and know that if people hit custom-selector._domainkey.whatever then they're processing your email somehow
[01:39:37] <rjsalts> assuming you're collecting that info from your dns servers
[01:40:45] <rjsalts> if you're not seeing those queries it would probably mean they're not happy about the sending ip address
[01:41:35] <rjsalts> but beyond that you can't tell if it was silently discarded, delivered to a spam folder or delivered to the inbox
[01:41:59] <MarcWeber> Well - ganets picked up the phone and started asking - and they were told no email arrived.
[01:42:53] <MarcWeber> Thank you very much.
[01:43:30] <rjsalts> have a look at the logs on your server, and the mail queue. If the remote host has acccepted delivery and they're still not seeing anything then you're in the silently discarding category
[01:44:21] <rjsalts> check your double bounces, they might provide some insight into why things are rejected if then remote host is telling you to go away
[01:44:45] <MarcWeber> I cannot access united domains logs ..
[01:45:01] <MarcWeber> No bounces (yet) or not many - otherwise they would have known.
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[01:45:18] <rjsalts> so you just send to a smarthost?
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[01:47:22] <MarcWeber> No bounces (yet) or not many - otherwise they would have known. And I was told dmarc would be the solution and a great business opportunity to be better and get 900% more openings once setup is fixed. But that judghment is not realistic ..
[01:48:32] <rjsalts> dmarc definitely provides you with more information, but it's information on what unexpected email from your domain is around, not the email you send yourself
[01:49:04] <divno> Hi, trying to connect to milter, which I seem like it should work -- warning: connect to Milter service inet:localhost:7226: Connection refused is what I am getting, obviously this shows that service is not running or firewall is rejecting the connection, iptables shows there is no rules in place, as if it was flushed of all rules. I added smtpd_milter option in main.cf but still no dice,  can you pleas help me out?
[01:49:27] <MarcWeber> whether its valid and whether it should be regarded - so I can protect against spammers, but not avoid getting seen as such.
[01:49:51] <MarcWeber> If each mail costs USD 0.10 spam problem would be solved as well :)
[01:50:25] <rjsalts> and if you have a bunch of strange sources, you might be able to fix your spf policies or get branch offices, or customers to change procedures based on dmarc reports
[01:50:50] <rjsalts> doubtful
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[01:52:22] <rjsalts> spammers already steal other peoples resources to send email when the cost for sending is a fraction of a cent, why would they not increase botnet zombie use if it were to cost $0.10USD/email
[01:53:22] <MarcWeber> Maybe the companies who charge the USD 0.10 would stop after 100 mails to not receive too many complains - or at least send a simple email 'do you really want to spend USD X' ?
[01:54:18] <rjsalts> meanwhile some user who had malware on their computer gets a bill for $3,000, etc.
[01:54:51] <MarcWeber> How do google/apple protect? "please login at your mobile phone and verify" -> you're right.
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[01:57:56] <rjsalts> and we have a similar situation with the postal service, advertisers still use letter drops via post which has costs of printing and delivery (possibly higher than $0.10USD)
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[09:18:01] <archer121> hi, I am trying to get postfix to act as a mail client. This is where I am stuck: https://paste.ubuntu.com/24051568/  I triend to find what is going on by going through the tcpdumps. Postfix is trying to send emails (MAIL) without doing and AUTH.
[09:21:36] <archer121> Here is the tcpdump, if you want to take a look: https://paste.ubuntu.com/24051609/
[09:22:23] <archer121> I am able to send emails using other clients. I have been trying to figure it out for over a day. Can someone help me with this?
[09:26:27] <archer121> Initially postfix was doing a smtp_pix_workarounds of disable_esmtp, butconfigured postfix to not apply the workaround, and so it is now using ESMTP instead of SMPT
[09:26:38] <archer121> SMTP*
[09:27:26] <archer121> !getting_help
[09:27:26] <knoba> archer121: "getting_help" : before asking your question, read the !relevant_logs and !showconfig factoids, and prepare a single pastebin containing all of that data. if you don't understand what this means, or if you need help doing this, please let us know. also see !pastebin
[09:27:54] <archer121> !relevant_logs
[09:27:54] <knoba> archer121: "relevant_logs" : mail.* syslog Postfix log messages (NOT verbose, see !no_verbose) which show ONLY the entire handling of a single mail which illustrates the issue with which you want help. Random selections from your mail log are not adequate. IMAP/POP3 daemons and external delivery agents often log to the same syslog facility (mail); filter such messages out unless asked not to.
[09:28:29] <archer121> !showconfig
[09:28:29] <knoba> archer121: "showconfig" : when asked to provide your config, please provide a SINGLE pastebin with postconf -nf and postconf -Mf. if your version is too old for those commands to work (< 2.9), you should upgrade, but see !showconfig_old
[09:30:51] <archer121> my postfix conf: https://paste.ubuntu.com/24051627/
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[12:14:43] <Aviv> Hi, I have domain a.com. a.com is hosted on Google G suite. Now if i'll send mail to contact at a dot com I'll recevice in on my Gmail account. Now we created a website called www.a.com and created a contact form. On that website we installed sendmail that will allow us to send mails once a user filled all the details on our website. the issue is that the sendmail also configured to get mails to
[12:14:43] <Aviv> @a.com. How can I create that all mails that rcpt to: contact at a dot com will be forwarded to gmail instead of our local server (sendmail) ? :)
[12:20:31] <spammy> !whisper Aviv example
[12:20:48] <Zerberus> Aviv: this channel is about Postfix, not Sendmail
[12:20:49] <Aviv> a.com was the example :)
[12:21:11] <Aviv> Zerberus, I don't mind doing it in sendmail also
[12:21:56] <Zerberus> Aviv: still wrong channel to ask here for Sendmail configurations
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[12:50:12] <Nit_> hum
[12:50:51] <Nit_> !nullmailer
[12:50:51] <knoba> Nit_: "nullmailer" : a nullclient program which provides a means for a computer to submit mail to an existing msa. see http://untroubled.org/nullmailer/ for more info. also see !nullclient_software, !nullclient and !msa
[12:51:12] <petn-randall> Good thing we have the three-headed daemon dog guarding #postfix from sendmail users ;)
[12:51:20] <Nit_> Aviv: ^ is it not want you want ?
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[13:05:54] <Aviv> Thanks!
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[13:20:06] <ismithers> Would anyone be able to tell me what this message in my log means? (this is from a MailServer package running on a Synology NAS) "error: ConvertFullUserName: SYNOUserLoginNameConvert(travis) failed" (in context https://db.tt/7YIz6zYKb9)
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[14:01:41] <jaybe> ismithers: are you just guessing the "system" you described used postfix and is your question about postfix?
[14:02:01] <ismithers> jaybe: No and yes.
[14:02:35] <ismithers> jaybe: Did you even look at the screenshot, it has postfix written all over it...
[14:03:15] <jaybe> no
[14:03:23] <ismithers> Excellent work.
[14:03:30] <jaybe> watch closely--
[14:03:39] * jaybe wander off
[14:04:03] * ismithers doesn't really care... ^_^
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[14:04:17] <patdk-lap> !tell ismithers getting_help
[14:04:17] <knoba> ismithers: "getting_help" : before asking your question, read the !relevant_logs and !showconfig factoids, and prepare a single pastebin containing all of that data. if you don't understand what this means, or if you need help doing this, please let us know. also see !pastebin
[14:05:03] <ismithers> patdk-lap: I will sort it out myself. Was just wondering if it was something intuitively obvious.
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[14:18:53] <lunaphyte> questions like that are a little bit of a pet peeve of mine
[14:21:21] <jaybe> not surprising. the addition and combination of the delivery/narcissism didnt help. :)
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[14:26:44] <lunaphyte> yeah
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   February 23, 2017
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