January 2, 2017 
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Bye)[05:37:21] *** JanC_ <JanC_!~janc@lugwv/member/JanC> has joined #postfix[05:38:36] *** JanC is now known as Guest56827[05:38:36] *** JanC_ is now known as JanC[05:39:09] *** Guest56827 <Guest56827!~janc@lugwv/member/JanC> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[05:54:00] *** tharkun <tharkun!~0@187.190.62.81> has quit IRC (Changing host)[05:54:00] *** tharkun <tharkun!~0@unaffiliated/tharkun> has joined #postfix[06:00:01] *** aqua^c <aqua^c!~aqua@114.111.60.64> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[06:06:13] *** aqua^c <aqua^c!~aqua@114.111.60.64> has joined #postfix[06:10:27] *** aqua^c <aqua^c!~aqua@114.111.60.64> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[06:47:29] *** aqua^c <aqua^c!~aqua@114.111.60.64> has joined #postfix[06:48:06] *** d0nn1e <d0nn1e!~d0nn1e@cpe-104-138-218-156.triad.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[06:49:59] *** d0nn1e <d0nn1e!~d0nn1e@cpe-104-138-218-156.triad.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[07:00:11] *** spY|da 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to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[09:38:39] *** postman84 <postman84!~postman84@68-205-9-246.res.bhn.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[09:58:26] *** niki_ <niki_!~niki@0x3e2c877a.mobile.telia.dk> has joined #postfix[09:59:03] *** niki_ <niki_!~niki@0x3e2c877a.mobile.telia.dk> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[10:21:38] *** aqua^c <aqua^c!~aqua@114.111.60.64> has quit IRC ()[10:24:15] *** auzty <auzty!~auzty@202.148.7.130> has joined #postfix[10:29:51] *** benone <benone!~benone@web.tiangola.co.ao> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[10:31:38] *** Embassy <Embassy!~Embassy@41.193.220.26> has joined #postfix[10:52:01] *** infides_afk <infides_afk!~infides@p5B167B3E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #postfix[10:52:22] *** Zilon <Zilon!~Zilon@www.schem.me> has left #postfix ("Leaving")[10:56:17] *** markus_e92 <markus_e92!~markus_e9@91-115-153-26.adsl.highway.telekom.at> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[10:59:45] *** markus_e92 <markus_e92!~markus_e9@91-115-17-237.adsl.highway.telekom.at> has joined #postfix[11:01:18] *** fling <fling!~fling@fsf/member/fling> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection timed out)[11:02:21] *** benone <benone!~benone@web.tiangola.co.ao> has joined #postfix[11:02:23] *** fling <fling!~fling@fsf/member/fling> has joined #postfix[11:16:04] *** stenrose <stenrose!~stenrose@martin.ilait.se> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[11:23:17] *** sphenxes01 <sphenxes01!~sphenxes@81-5-225-44.hdsl.highway.telekom.at> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[11:24:16] *** sphenxes01 <sphenxes01!~sphenxes@81-5-225-44.hdsl.highway.telekom.at> has joined #postfix[11:26:54] *** sphenxes01 <sphenxes01!~sphenxes@81-5-225-44.hdsl.highway.telekom.at> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[11:30:12] *** sphenxes01 <sphenxes01!~sphenxes@81-5-225-44.hdsl.highway.telekom.at> has joined #postfix[11:33:06] *** J0hnSteel <J0hnSteel!~J0hnSteel@92.55.116.125> has joined #postfix[11:39:09] *** stenrose <stenrose!~stenrose@martin.ilait.se> has joined #postfix[11:47:34] *** dargains <dargains!~dargains@191.249.192.119> has joined #postfix[11:54:17] *** infides_afk is now known as Infides[12:07:26] *** dargains <dargains!~dargains@191.249.192.119> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[12:14:45] *** dargains <dargains!~dargains@191.249.192.119> has joined #postfix[12:29:42] *** ptx0 <ptx0!~cheesus_c@unaffiliated/ptx0> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[12:33:23] *** level7 <level7!~quassel@31.44.17.250> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[12:36:04] *** level7 <level7!~quassel@31.44.16.132> has joined #postfix[12:42:16] *** ced117_ <ced117_!~ced117@AStrasbourg-552-1-13-42.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr> has quit IRC (Quit: Quitte)[12:42:41] *** pti-jean_ <pti-jean_!~quassel@7.41.124.78.rev.sfr.net> has joined #postfix[12:48:45] *** ced117_ <ced117_!~ced117@AStrasbourg-552-1-13-42.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr> has joined #postfix[12:50:27] *** tmberg <tmberg!tmberg@unaffiliated/tmberg> has joined #postfix[12:53:37] *** auzty <auzty!~auzty@202.148.7.130> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[12:58:17] *** level7 <level7!~quassel@31.44.16.132> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[13:01:40] *** internat <internat!~nf@61.68.129.101> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[13:02:23] *** internat <internat!~nf@61.68.129.101> has joined #postfix[13:02:25] *** internat <internat!~nf@61.68.129.101> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[13:03:03] *** internat <internat!~nf@61.68.129.101> has joined #postfix[13:06:53] *** dargains <dargains!~dargains@191.249.192.119> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[13:09:31] *** dargains <dargains!~dargains@191.249.192.119> has joined #postfix[13:23:57] *** dargains <dargains!~dargains@191.249.192.119> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[14:06:37] *** D-Boy <D-Boy!~D-Boy@unaffiliated/cain> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[14:11:48] *** mcfate <mcfate!~textual@174-134-145-16.res.bhn.net> has joined #postfix[14:20:18] *** Diemuzi <Diemuzi!~IceChat9@unaffiliated/diemuzi> has joined #postfix[14:26:50] *** dargains <dargains!~dargains@191.249.192.119> has joined #postfix[14:27:20] *** vrederv <vrederv!~vrederv@84-114-84-181.cable.dynamic.surfer.at> has joined #postfix[14:40:25] <GTAXL> When configuration mail clients for SMTP, I have 587 STARTTLS. Is there a way to change this to SSL/TLS only?[14:56:00] *** higuita <higuita!~higuita@2a01:240:fe00:82a7:ec72:50ff:fe96:f291> has joined #postfix[14:58:18] *** ced117__ <ced117__!~ced117@AStrasbourg-552-1-26-76.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr> has joined #postfix[14:59:39] *** ced117_ <ced117_!~ced117@AStrasbourg-552-1-13-42.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[15:03:54] <rob0> Sure there is, but why do you want to do that?[15:09:00] *** guampa <guampa!~guampa@unaffiliated/guampa> has joined #postfix[15:13:49] <survietamine> because some smart admin put some smart firewall rule? :D[15:15:29] <GTAXL> Big providers do it, ex. gmail and I'd prefer explicitly for the client to do so. STARTTLS can be MITM'd, given any sane client would refuse to continue, I'd feel safer this way.[15:18:20] *** ExoUNX <ExoUNX!~ExoUNX@unaffiliated/exounx> has joined #postfix[15:20:10] <GTAXL> upon further investigation it appears this is default on 465?[15:21:38] <rob0> it's not safer[15:21:43] <rob0> !smtps[15:21:44] <knoba> rob0: "smtps" : Port 465 is smtps, SMTP over SSL, a deprecated means of submission. This means that smtps should *not* be used, and that this factoid exists for historical purposes only and should not be implemented. See !submission for smtps' successor. That being said, Postfix can implement smtps with a separate smtpd(8) listener with \"-o smtpd_tls_wrappermode=yes\". See the commented example in master.cf.[15:22:19] *** sphenxes02 <sphenxes02!~sphenxes@81-5-227-211.hdsl.highway.telekom.at> has joined #postfix[15:23:46] <GTAXL> !submission[15:23:46] <knoba> GTAXL: "submission" : Port 587 is submission, for user submission of mail, NOT suitable for mail exchange. See the commented example in master.cf. also see !msa, and rfc 6409. Also read http://www.maawg.org/sites/maawg/files/news/MAAWG_Port25rec0511.pdf[15:25:05] *** jak2013 <jak2013!~jak2000@189.244.115.137> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[15:25:37] *** sphenxes <sphenxes!~sphenxes@81-5-225-44.hdsl.highway.telekom.at> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[15:25:39] <GTAXL> If 465 is deprecated though, why does gmail, isps, etc. still use it? o.O[15:25:59] *** sphenxes01 <sphenxes01!~sphenxes@81-5-225-44.hdsl.highway.telekom.at> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[15:26:05] *** sphenxes <sphenxes!~sphenxes@81-5-227-211.hdsl.highway.telekom.at> has joined #postfix[15:27:57] <GTAXL> I see IANA changed it, hmm[15:47:57] <rob0> gmail and ISPs have large user bases which they do not control. It's easier for them to cater to users who don't know any better, than to tell them to change to 587+STARTTLS.[15:51:40] *** rsx <rsx!~dummy@ppp-93-104-52-203.dynamic.mnet-online.de> has joined #postfix[15:51:57] <honestly> TLS-wrapped SMTP/IMAP is also strictly more secure than STARTTLS.[15:55:00] <rob0> why?[15:56:01] <rob0> a sniffer could snoop the initial EHLO hostname, only "vulnerability" I can see in it[15:56:16] <GTAXL> I'd argue faster too, instead of waiting to "upgrade to TLS" anyway, the client will instantly begin the ssl/tls handshake and be on it's way.[15:58:42] <GTAXL> That's just what I don't understand, in 2016 we're gonna use TLS for mail submission, period. The extra overhead to connect via plaintext to just "upgrade to TLS" doesn't make sense to me.[15:58:47] *** ced117__ <ced117__!~ced117@AStrasbourg-552-1-26-76.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr> has quit IRC (Quit: Quitte)[15:58:54] <GTAXL> I can see on 25 but not mail submission imo[15:59:56] <rob0> I don't know. Maybe dig into the IETF work group's discussions if you want to know why they did it.[16:00:12] <honestly> rob0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunistic_TLS#Weaknesses_and_mitigations[16:00:37] <GTAXL> I changed master.cf and enabled to the TLS wrapper for 587, since it's RFC for mail submission and 465 apparently isn't.[16:00:56] <GTAXL> updated client and works great, bit snappier too[16:01:29] <honestly> it's possible to configure clients to not be vulnerable to downgrade / stripping attacks, but it can't be secure by default (starttls also has nothing comparable to HSTS, so can't even be attempted to be enforced by server)[16:01:35] <rob0> the submission standard expects an initial plaintext connection. Clients won't expect smtps on 587.[16:01:50] <GTAXL> They will if configured to[16:02:10] <honestly> clients generally try every possible combination of protocols and use whichever succeeds.[16:02:32] <rob0> sure you can enforce it, at least in terms of not allowing them to relay without AUTH, and not allowing AUTH without TLS[16:02:34] <GTAXL> It's literally this easy http://pik.gtaxl.net/02_01_17_10_02_14.png[16:04:47] <honestly> rob0: without a pinning mechanism like HSTS, enforcing anything on the server side does nothing against a MITM attacker[16:05:07] <rob0> A well-written MUA will let you set server settings, such that it won't send passwords without TLS.[16:05:20] <honestly> sure[16:05:22] *** Rembo <Rembo!Rembo@92.55.144.175> has joined #postfix[16:05:27] <rizonz> MACscr: :) nice Happy New Year![16:05:31] <honestly> and that does nothing to protect 99% of the users of that MUA[16:05:36] <Rembo> hello everyone, i'm getting this error: https://hastebin.com/gupocutovo.sql can someone help?[16:05:51] <honestly> unless that MUA is comfortable with having 99% less users after they make this the default setting[16:05:53] <GTAXL> .sql o.O[16:07:34] <rob0> I use lynx in IRC, and hastebin is unusable in lynx. Sorry.[16:07:44] *** Oclairi <Oclairi!~Oclair@178-191-230-16.adsl.highway.telekom.at> has joined #postfix[16:09:18] *** Oclair <Oclair!~Oclair@178-190-62-71.adsl.highway.telekom.at> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[16:10:57] *** gu1lle_ <gu1lle_!~Thunderbi@190.18.4.241> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:11:10] *** dargains <dargains!~dargains@191.249.192.119> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:18:08] *** rsx <rsx!~dummy@ppp-93-104-52-203.dynamic.mnet-online.de> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:21:12] *** dargains <dargains!~dargains@191.249.192.119> has joined #postfix[16:23:45] <vrederv> Hey folks I just setup Postfix but it's refusing connections at 465 from localhost ...[16:24:30] <JPT> port 465 is smtps which is deprecated. use submission on port 587 instead. It even supports STARTTLS[16:25:20] <vrederv> does that mean that Postfix won't serve smtps by default?[16:25:39] <JPT> probably, yes.[16:25:55] <vrederv> 587 isn't working either[16:26:03] <vrederv> but 25 is[16:26:13] <JPT> That really depends on how you set it up[16:26:22] <vrederv> I didn't change any ports.[16:26:25] *** dargains <dargains!~dargains@191.249.192.119> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[16:27:32] <jaybe> !doesntwork[16:27:32] <knoba> jaybe: "doesntwork" : (#1) It doesn't work... is a ridiculous statement. It conveys essentially no information whatsoever. No one can help with such a statement. Provide actual information, such as what actually happens, what messages are displayed, what you expected to happen, what you see in logs, etc.; specifics! See !config to share your configuration with us., or (#2) It doesn't work... is a ridiculous statement. It conveys essen[16:28:37] <vrederv> telnet localhost 587[16:28:37] <vrederv> Trying 127.0.0.1...[16:28:37] <vrederv> telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused[16:29:16] <jaybe> you do see/comprehend the issue described by that message?[16:29:38] <jaybe> !submission[16:29:38] <knoba> jaybe: "submission" : Port 587 is submission, for user submission of mail, NOT suitable for mail exchange. See the commented example in master.cf. also see !msa, and rfc 6409. Also read http://www.maawg.org/sites/maawg/files/news/MAAWG_Port25rec0511.pdf[16:30:34] <vrederv> if I would get what's wrong I wouldn't bother you[16:30:51] <jaybe> read what i asked[16:30:54] <GTAXL> vrederv, uncomment the "submission inet " line and the -o's that follow it in /etc/postfix/master.cf then restart postfix.[16:37:07] *** DzAirmaX <DzAirmaX!~AirmaX@unaffiliated/dzairmax> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[16:41:30] *** shaytan <shaytan!~shaytan@c-83-233-76-171.cust.bredband2.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[16:54:54] <vrederv> GTAXL, so submission is disabled by default?[16:56:41] <GTAXL> I believe so, did your master.cf config have it commented out?[16:57:40] <GTAXL> I remember having to uncomment it for Debian's default configuration structure[16:58:40] <jaybe> more accurately probably is that submission is not enabled by default[16:58:53] <jaybe> (depending on OS/distribution/packaging)[16:59:05] <GTAXL> yup[17:01:11] <lunaphyte> it's not enabled in 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<ExoUNX!~ExoUNX@unaffiliated/exounx> has quit IRC (Quit: I'm outta here)[23:14:16] *** gu1lle_ <gu1lle_!~Thunderbi@181.167.195.114> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[23:19:02] *** froz-gab <froz-gab!~froz-gab@ip-47-24.sn2.clouditalia.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[23:19:11] *** Oclairi <Oclairi!~Oclair@178-191-230-16.adsl.highway.telekom.at> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[23:19:58] *** Oclair <Oclair!~Oclair@178-191-230-16.adsl.highway.telekom.at> has joined #postfix[23:23:29] <GTAXL> Jan 2 17:18:00 coke postfix/sendmail[23241]: fatal: open /etc/postfix/main.cf: Permission denied[23:23:44] <GTAXL> Happens after I setup spamassasin, I'm guessing it uses sendmail?[23:25:15] <rob0> By default the config_directory and main.cf are world readable. You must have changed that.[23:27:02] <rob0> I would not recommend setting up spamassassin like that. If you need content filtering after postscreen and anti-spam restrictions, consider:[23:27:09] <rob0> !amavisd-new[23:27:09] <knoba> rob0: "amavisd-new" : amavisd-new is a high-performance and reliable interface between mailer (MTA) and one or more content checkers. See http://www.ijs.si/software/amavisd/[23:32:10] *** troys is now known as troys_[23:39:59] *** fredl <fredl!~fredl@2001:980:942a:1:1d99:bd3d:bc40:a5bf> has joined #postfix[23:40:16] *** troys_ is now known as troys[23:41:22] <fredl> hi folks. I seem to be having some difficulties with my virtual_alias_maps[23:41:45] <fredl> I have configured in my main.cf: virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf[23:42:29] <fredl> and when I try with postmap -q aliased at domain dot com mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf it gives the correct translation[23:42:56] <fredl> but when postfix is running it doesn't recognize those aliases[23:43:26] <fredl> and mail to the alias bounces[23:46:21] <fredl> anybody?[23:48:27] <fredl> alrite, well....[23:48:29] <fredl> :([23:48:36] *** fredl <fredl!~fredl@2001:980:942a:1:1d99:bd3d:bc40:a5bf> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)