November 26, 2012 
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November 26, 2012 [00:12:22] *** maccampus has quit IRC[00:12:23] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Tpenta[00:27:40] *** Mdx4 has quit IRC[00:28:15] *** delewis has joined #opensolaris[00:41:47] *** CosmicDJ has joined #opensolaris[01:03:04] *** swa_work has joined #opensolaris[01:36:45] *** LucidDreamZzZ has quit IRC[01:50:12] *** ganbold has joined #opensolaris[01:52:25] *** CVLTCMK0 has quit IRC[01:55:40] *** loganbr has quit IRC[02:02:44] *** loganbr has joined #opensolaris[02:11:55] *** CVLTCMK0 has joined #opensolaris[02:13:49] *** irker773 has joined #opensolaris[02:13:49] <irker773> spec-files-extra [5067] loganbruns SFElibotr.spec: updated to 3.2.1.[02:13:50] <irker773> spec-files-extra [5068] loganbruns SFEbitlbee.spec: updated to 3.0.6 and removed a patch.[02:14:20] *** kdavyd has joined #opensolaris[02:19:43] *** noyb has joined #opensolaris[02:29:57] *** Tpenta has quit IRC[02:30:30] *** Tpenta has joined #opensolaris[02:32:20] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Tpenta[02:51:41] *** fisted_ has joined #opensolaris[02:55:04] *** fisted has quit IRC[02:55:20] *** fisted_ has quit IRC[02:55:26] *** fisted has joined #opensolaris[02:56:30] *** delewis has quit IRC[03:42:34] *** jamesd has quit IRC[03:44:11] *** CosmicDJ_ has joined #opensolaris[03:47:44] *** CosmicDJ has quit IRC[03:49:10] *** jayne has quit IRC[03:49:21] *** jayne has joined #opensolaris[03:49:58] *** nikolam has joined #opensolaris[03:56:36] <irker773> spec-files-extra [5069] loganbruns SFEatlas.spec: Add support for 32/64 build and move cblas.h, clapack.h to include/atlas to avoid conflict.[03:56:45] <irker773> spec-files-extra [5070] loganbruns SFEr-atlas.spec: updated to 2.15.2[04:04:43] *** mkruger has left #opensolaris[04:08:24] *** jayne has quit IRC[04:20:22] *** jayne has joined #opensolaris[04:26:52] *** jayne has quit IRC[04:30:27] *** noyb has quit IRC[05:23:25] *** jacobs has quit IRC[05:23:42] *** jacobs has joined #opensolaris[05:46:17] *** superstructor has quit IRC[05:55:26] *** 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*** tsoome has joined #opensolaris[10:35:39] *** tsoome has quit IRC[10:45:13] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris[10:58:59] *** darrenb has joined #opensolaris[11:28:38] *** irker021 has joined #opensolaris[11:28:38] <irker021> spec-files-extra [5071] loganbruns SFEsage.spec: updated to 5.4.[11:41:57] *** welby is now known as welby_away[12:40:13] *** fisted has joined #opensolaris[12:43:47] *** fisted has quit IRC[12:59:40] *** darrenb` has joined #opensolaris[12:59:40] *** alhazred has joined #opensolaris[13:00:03] *** darrenb has quit IRC[13:08:19] *** fisted has joined #opensolaris[13:21:16] *** fisted has quit IRC[13:21:21] *** nikolam has joined #opensolaris[13:21:29] *** fisted_ has joined #opensolaris[13:21:48] *** fisted_ is now known as fisted[13:52:02] *** nikolam has quit IRC[13:54:44] *** nikolam has joined #opensolaris[14:03:46] *** Sachiru has joined #opensolaris[14:06:03] *** Sachiru has quit IRC[14:06:45] *** Sachiru has joined #opensolaris[14:06:55] *** chol- has 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#opensolaris[16:38:50] *** jfisc has joined #opensolaris[16:39:36] *** nikolam has quit IRC[16:41:45] *** ingenthr has joined #opensolaris[16:42:41] *** nikolam has joined #opensolaris[16:51:13] *** ganbold has quit IRC[17:06:35] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris[17:17:25] *** Dagobert has quit IRC[17:28:34] *** bigjohnto has joined #opensolaris[17:29:27] <bigjohnto> if you got a 2 slices with one overlapping cylinder. 0-22999 22999-endofdisk[17:30:22] <bigjohnto> I know that the one overlapping cylinder is not good, so I going to recreate the first slice with one cylinder less. but the question is can I write the label if i leave slice 2 mounted? or do i need to unmount all slices before labelling the disk?[17:38:39] <tsoome> what filesystem?[17:43:06] *** alanc has quit IRC[17:43:40] <bigjohnto> ufs[17:43:43] <bigjohnto> using disk[17:43:46] <bigjohnto> format[17:44:08] <bigjohnto> slice 1 I want to modify cylinders[17:44:13] <bigjohnto> slice 2 I want to leave mounted[17:44:43] <bigjohnto> would i be able to modify slice 1 cylinders label disk and newfs it without having to unmount slice 2[17:45:24] <tsoome> slice 2 is normally whole disk from 0 to $, if so, you cant create anything there[17:46:29] <bigjohnto> sorry so i mean[17:46:32] <bigjohnto> slice 0 and slice 1[17:46:54] <bigjohnto> my bad for starting at 1[17:47:07] *** Dagobert has joined #opensolaris[17:47:18] <tsoome> sparc or x86?[17:48:30] <tsoome> on sparc you can start from 0, ufs has space reserved for disk label. on x86 you have to leave cylinder 0 alone and start from 1[17:49:13] <tsoome> and if its modern solaris, better use zfs and not ufs;)[17:49:36] *** welby is now known as welby_away[17:52:43] *** alanc has joined #opensolaris[17:52:44] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o alanc[17:54:09] <bigjohnto> solaris 10[17:54:41] <bigjohnto> but the biggest thing is slice 0 ends at 22999 and slice 1 starts at 22999, i should not have them overlap the 1 cylinder right?[17:58:42] <tsoome> yes. and s10 can do zfs;)[17:59:16] <tsoome> as you have fs in s1, your s0 must end at 22998[18:01:32] *** wereHamster has quit IRC[18:01:32] *** wereHamster has joined #opensolaris[18:17:38] *** alhazred has quit IRC[18:39:58] *** merzo has joined #opensolaris[18:44:46] <bigjohnto> thanks tsoome, appreciate your help[18:50:16] <tsoome> yw[18:56:29] <Alasdairrr> SmartOS ftw, slices be gone \o/[19:20:53] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris[20:32:09] *** welby_away is now known as welby[20:37:56] *** chris64 has joined #opensolaris[20:40:06] *** nikolam has quit IRC[20:42:27] *** randw_ has joined #opensolaris[20:44:10] *** randw has quit IRC[20:54:21] *** volta has quit IRC[20:57:01] *** leptir_ has joined #opensolaris[20:57:15] *** merzo_ has joined #opensolaris[20:59:03] *** timsf has joined #opensolaris[21:00:38] *** dijit- has joined #opensolaris[21:01:36] *** merzo has quit IRC[21:01:39] *** mavhc has quit IRC[21:01:53] *** dijit has quit IRC[21:01:56] *** leptir has quit IRC[21:03:27] *** mavhc has joined #opensolaris[21:18:37] *** Dagobert has quit IRC[21:20:54] *** Dagobert has joined #opensolaris[21:30:14] *** darrenb` has quit IRC[21:30:58] *** darrenb has joined #opensolaris[21:34:16] *** merzo_ has quit IRC[21:40:04] *** merzo_ has joined #opensolaris[21:43:25] *** jamesd_ has joined #opensolaris[21:46:54] *** jamesd has quit IRC[22:05:20] *** dijit- is now known as dijit[22:12:15] *** Cpt-Oblivious2 has joined #opensolaris[22:21:37] <Cpt-Oblivious2> Hey[22:21:46] <Cpt-Oblivious2> I have a question regarding solaris[22:21:51] <Cpt-Oblivious2> what exactly happened with opensolaris?[22:21:54] <Cpt-Oblivious2> is it discontinued?[22:22:01] <Cpt-Oblivious2> and is Solaris 11, free for use?[22:23:30] <datadigger> Cpt-Oblivious2: See topic, Solaris 11 is only free for evaluation.[22:23:47] <Cpt-Oblivious2> So that doesn't include running it for personal use?[22:24:45] <datadigger> As far as I understand Oracles legal speak: no personal use allowed.[22:24:52] <Cpt-Oblivious2> hmm ok[22:25:47] <alanc> evaluation & development, so write some software on it[22:26:11] <alanc> or pick one of the free/open source replacement distros from /topic[22:27:46] *** chris64 has quit IRC[22:29:40] *** ex9t has joined #opensolaris[22:33:03] *** echelog has joined #opensolaris[22:33:16] <jamesd_> illumos isn't a distro, illumos is the source code that most opensolaris/openindiana type distros are based on.[22:33:33] *** randw has joined #opensolaris[22:33:33] <Cpt-Oblivious2> ooh ok[22:33:45] *** doug has joined #opensolaris[22:35:40] <alanc> recommendations differ based on usage types[22:35:59] <Cpt-Oblivious2> Would be for a file server / backup server[22:36:00] <alanc> if you're looking for a desktop, then you probably want openindiana - for servers, lots of people like smartos & omnios[22:36:02] <Cpt-Oblivious2> on ZFS[22:37:23] <Cpt-Oblivious2> oh[22:37:27] <Cpt-Oblivious2> SmartOS sounds nice[22:37:37] <Cpt-Oblivious2> has like a HyperV / Vmware integrated in it?[22:37:51] <Cpt-Oblivious2> sounds nice[22:37:55] <Cpt-Oblivious2> going to try that in a vm now[22:37:57] <Cpt-Oblivious2> that's for the hint[22:38:02] <Cpt-Oblivious2> thanks for the hint*[22:38:14] <alanc> it's based on Linux KVM, but yes[22:38:27] <jamesd_> unless are you are going do zones or kvm... smartos may not be the best choice, its too light weight if you want to run services on it.. so you end up doing double work to run a small webserver on it[22:38:52] <Cpt-Oblivious2> but would it be the OS of choice to virtualize?[22:39:08] <Cpt-Oblivious2> So I run Smartoss with a bunch of ZFS storage[22:39:29] <Cpt-Oblivious2> and virtualized on top of that other linux distro's more suited to specific tasks / like running websites / gameservers etc..[22:39:39] <jamesd_> depends.. if you want dozens of guests yes, if you want to run a guest occausionally, and a webserver, dns server all the time it may not be your best choice[22:39:56] <Cpt-Oblivious2> Atm i have a windows 2008r2 with hyper V[22:40:02] <Cpt-Oblivious2> on which 5-6 guests run non stop[22:40:11] <Cpt-Oblivious2> and I run absolutely nothing on the hyperv it self[22:40:29] <Cpt-Oblivious2> But i'm looking to switch to linux, since the 6 x 3T i have now i'd rather have on ZFS[22:40:32] <jamesd_> smartos may be good choice to replace that then.[22:40:46] <Cpt-Oblivious2> I had heard of Xen but not of smartos[22:41:20] <jamesd_> xen is what opensolaris used years ago... its a bit dated, kvm is the current free hypervisor of choice.[22:41:30] <Cpt-Oblivious2> Nice[22:41:33] <Cpt-Oblivious2> hadn't heard of it before[22:41:41] <Cpt-Oblivious2> sounds promising[22:42:04] <alanc> none of these are Linux - Solaris/OpenSolaris is a different OS, though with lots of similarities & cross-pollination[22:42:26] <Cpt-Oblivious2> what do you mean that they aren't linux?[22:42:43] <Cpt-Oblivious2> As far as i'm aware, it's freebsd -> linux -> windows/mac[22:42:54] <Cpt-Oblivious2> with a few very small OS'es like Chrome / HP stuff[22:43:02] <Cpt-Oblivious2> and Unix ofc[22:43:03] <jamesd_> openindiana, opensolaris, solaris, smartos, etc are not based on linux, or freebsd source code.[22:43:15] <Cpt-Oblivious2> really? :o[22:43:22] <Cpt-Oblivious2> are they fundamentally different?[22:43:29] <Cpt-Oblivious2> control / command wise[22:43:49] <jamesd_> acrually in a way linux was based on linus torvlads experience with Solaris.[22:44:04] <Cpt-Oblivious2> But it's still partially linux right?[22:44:12] <Cpt-Oblivious2> because it implements KVM which is written for the linux kernel?[22:44:27] <jamesd_> nope.... linux is the new kid on the block compared to solaris.[22:44:55] <jamesd_> kvm was ported to smartos and illumos and illumos based distros[22:45:03] <Cpt-Oblivious2> oh ok[22:45:33] <alanc> Solaris is Unix - originally based on the AT&T Unix sources, with BSD bits merged in and then lots of later changes by Sun[22:45:42] <alanc> OpenSolaris was opensourcing the Solaris sources[22:45:59] <Cpt-Oblivious2> oh ok[22:46:20] <alanc> a bunch of commands are the same, due to common BSD or GNU sources[22:46:51] <jamesd_> unix was written in the 70's... it was forked and became sunos/solaris both were unix, linus torvalds used sunos/solaris in university, he wanted unix for home, but didn't have money for it, so he wrote linux. solaris was eventually opensourced and became illumos and friends.[22:47:17] <Cpt-Oblivious2> ah ok[22:47:19] <Cpt-Oblivious2> But uhmm[22:47:30] <Cpt-Oblivious2> isn't illumos then kinda on a thin path[22:47:40] <Cpt-Oblivious2> because Sun just killed opensolaris by making it closed source[22:47:45] <Cpt-Oblivious2> can they do the same with illumos?[22:47:57] <alanc> well, Oracle did that, not Sun[22:48:14] <Cpt-Oblivious2> Yea ok[22:48:25] *** merzo_ has quit IRC[22:48:27] <Cpt-Oblivious2> Any chance it's going to happen to Illumos as well?[22:48:35] <alanc> illumos took the last open source release of OpenSolaris and continued on - the source that's already out there is still open, Oracle's just not releasing any further updates[22:48:36] <Cpt-Oblivious2> I mean, why kill just OpenSolaris?[22:48:53] <Cpt-Oblivious2> ah ok[22:48:56] <jamesd_> illumos took the last open realese of opensolaris, and most of the people that left oracle are now working on improving illumos including 90% of the guys that wrote most of the cool futures in Solaris 10 and opensolaris.[22:49:07] <Cpt-Oblivious2> and OpenSolaris was heavily dependend on the updates from the non opensource brance[22:49:12] <alanc> because Oracle was only paying for people to work OpenSolaris - Oracle wasn't paying anyone to work on illumos[22:49:14] <Cpt-Oblivious2> so by close sourcing the completely it died[22:49:46] <Cpt-Oblivious2> ah makes sense[22:49:50] <Cpt-Oblivious2> history lessons right here :P[22:49:50] <jamesd_> opensolaris died, but illumos is it reincarnated and stronger than it was before.[22:49:56] *** chris64 has joined #opensolaris[22:50:28] <jamesd_> Cpt-Oblivious2, checkout "Fork yeah cantrill" on youtube it has the whole story and history.[22:50:47] <Cpt-Oblivious2> thanks for the tip[22:50:52] <Cpt-Oblivious2> certainly will[22:51:10] <Cpt-Oblivious2> I'm a 1st year computer science student, and got a bunch of servers running my self[22:51:14] <Cpt-Oblivious2> though it's mostly windows based[22:51:22] <Cpt-Oblivious2> but that's all pirated off course[22:51:31] <Cpt-Oblivious2> and partially it has quite some limitations[22:51:35] <Cpt-Oblivious2> which is why i was looking at zfs[22:51:50] <Cpt-Oblivious2> but now that i know about KVM in SmartOS and also ZFS[22:51:52] <Cpt-Oblivious2> that's just awesome[22:52:53] <timsf> "90% of the guys that wrote most of the cool futures in Solaris 10 and opensolaris." that's not terribly generous.[22:53:00] <timsf> that's just what they want you to think.[22:53:58] <Cpt-Oblivious2> Of course it won't be 90%[22:54:06] <Cpt-Oblivious2> but it can still be quite a big part[22:54:08] <jamesd_> timsf, the core dtrace/fishworks team left and are part of illumos and so did the core ZFS team....[22:54:26] <timsf> Right, but that's not 90% of the cool features in s10[22:54:36] <timsf> there's several core ZFS engineers still at Oracle.[22:55:14] <jamesd_> just not the guy who started it and did a lot of work to make it happen[22:55:32] <timsf> right.[22:56:19] *** chris64 has quit IRC[22:57:05] <richlowe> this conversation smells of foolishness[22:57:16] <Cpt-Oblivious2> quite possibly[22:57:18] <Cpt-Oblivious2> i'm quite a noob[22:57:20] *** Dagobert has quit IRC[22:57:24] <Cpt-Oblivious2> i'm Oblivious as well[22:57:27] <timsf> (I'm trying not to get ratty)[22:58:32] *** chris64 has joined #opensolaris[23:03:13] <alanc> better than the claim I saw once (can't remember where) that Joyent had hired the majority of Solaris engineering - which is clearly off by a few orders of magnitude[23:03:40] <alanc> (think it was a fanboy, not someone actually at Joyent, to be fair)[23:04:18] <Cpt-Oblivious2> Btw with SmartOs[23:04:20] <Cpt-Oblivious2> with KVM[23:04:27] <Cpt-Oblivious2> can you import current vm's?[23:04:34] <Cpt-Oblivious2> that i have currently running in hyperv?[23:05:02] <jamesd_> Cpt-Oblivious2, might be a good question for #smartos[23:05:12] <Cpt-Oblivious2> ah ok[23:05:13] <Cpt-Oblivious2> true[23:05:15] <Cpt-Oblivious2> sorry about that :P[23:05:26] <Cpt-Oblivious2> Thanks for the tips / pointing in the right direction so far[23:09:24] <richlowe> alanc: the obvious target would be the 20% who aren't irritating.[23:09:36] <richlowe> but even that's a fairly large number of people[23:10:33] <richlowe> A firm "Have I ever been secretly tempted to stab you?" hiring policy. The one true path.[23:10:47] <richlowe> though, then again, wesolows.[23:12:06] <alanc> hmm, I don't know about that test, though making you publicly tempted to stab me probably doesn't help...[23:27:35] <richlowe> now now, I'm full of nothing but happy thoughts and optimism.[23:28:17] <timsf> coffee | nose[23:39:13] <alanc> must be nice to live outside normal timezones, where you can declare it to be beer o'clock whenever you want[23:41:20] <timsf> ... because nobody will ever know? :-)[23:43:19] <jamesd_> its better to work where the office provides beer in the office... then you get free beer and permission to drink on company time.[23:45:11] <timsf> (I'm a python developer: we don't ask for permission! :-p[23:46:10] <timsf> [ follow-on comments about hurling stack traces around at every possible opportunity are expected ][23:48:13] <alanc> so if you work from home, and brew beer at home, do you ever have a reason to leave home?[23:50:59] <timsf> voting?[23:51:35] <timsf> (I actually haven't brewed beer in ages, since Gman moved into his new house and has room to store his equipment now)[23:51:53] <timsf> I really need to start acquiring brewing gear again.[23:52:25] *** maccampus has quit IRC