October 25, 2011 
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October 25, 2011 [00:05:46] *** muppetdaemon has left #opensolaris[00:14:05] *** yippi has quit IRC[00:23:08] *** jelmd has quit IRC[00:24:20] *** miine has quit IRC[00:25:02] *** yippi has joined #opensolaris[00:26:14] *** jelmd has joined #opensolaris[00:36:30] *** held has joined #opensolaris[00:37:25] *** heldchen has quit IRC[00:45:23] <CIA-56> SFE viskov: SFEmpg123.spec: do not restrict the modules that are built to oss[00:46:29] *** miine has joined #opensolaris[00:50:11] *** yippi has quit IRC[00:54:37] *** sphenxes02 has quit IRC[01:17:49] *** held has quit IRC[01:18:04] *** held has joined #opensolaris[01:45:35] *** echelog has joined #opensolaris[01:47:36] *** Trisk[netbook] has quit IRC[01:50:06] *** Trisk[netbook] has joined #opensolaris[01:50:06] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Trisk[netbook][04:07:17] *** echelog has joined #opensolaris[04:07:17] -zelazny.freenode.net- [freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp[04:07:44] <joobie> im at work[04:07:50] <joobie> unfortunately :P[04:07:52] <bradend1> I don't get it.[04:08:00] <joobie> the whole drinking and work thing[04:08:16] <bradend1> But working is when you need drink most!![04:08:21] <joobie> haha[04:08:41] *** miine_ has joined #opensolaris[04:10:06] <joobie> btw bradend1 .. with that ZFS snapshot replication that you do - do you typically see if 1MB of data is changed, 1MB of data syncing with the replication?[04:10:30] <joobie> is there an overhead you are seeing with the replication or seeing less data transfer given you are compressing the blocks in the transfer[04:10:54] *** miine has quit IRC[04:10:54] *** miine_ is now known as miine[04:11:04] <bradend1> Well, i varies a lot, there's a little bit of overhead, but not much.[04:11:05] <joobie> i've roughly measured that we have about 100-300MB change in an hour.. trying to do some basic math to calculate what sorta link we need between sites to transfer the image every hour[04:11:08] <bradend1> Compression helps.[04:11:38] <joobie> and i can just send the delta of the image right?[04:11:38] <bradend1> I tried a few compression methods - bzip worked best for my particular dataset.[04:11:45] <joobie> i mean just the changed blocks.. rather than the whole image[04:11:52] <joobie> i see[04:12:02] <bradend1> That's right, you can just send the delta.[04:12:23] <bradend1> I advise reading ZFS send, receive, and snapshot man pages to understand that stuff.[04:12:33] <joobie> thanks[04:12:37] <joobie> i will[04:13:16] <bradend1> Worth noting that Enterprise Nexenta will do some of the work for you.[04:13:40] <joobie> I dont mind scripting it :P but thanks[04:13:42] <bradend1> (And Community Edition will rsync for you)[04:14:53] <bradend1> If you need a jump start in scripting, I found this to be neat-o : https://labs.omniti.com/labs/zetaback[04:16:01] <joobie> cheers bradend1[04:16:16] <joobie> appreciate the help[04:16:28] <joobie> i just noticed the maintainers email address on that post[04:16:36] <joobie> interesting :)[04:16:56] <bradend1> Also, lastly, I'm an idiot, so research very thoroughly, whatever you do.[04:17:04] <bradend1> Standard disclaimer.[04:17:29] <joobie> lol[04:17:42] <bradend1> If you ask SOME people, I'm an idiot swine in a sty, no less.[04:17:46] <joobie> an idiot is a bit harsh[04:17:56] <bradend1> Pretty smart for a pig, though, I think.[04:18:00] <joobie> ahah[04:18:09] <bradend1> "That's some pig".[04:18:14] <joobie> sole admin has to be somewhat smart :P[04:18:21] <joobie> unless u work at AOL[04:18:28] <bradend1> That's unfortunately not true.[04:18:39] <bradend1> They could be lone admins because noone wants to work with them.[04:18:47] <joobie> true[04:18:50] <bradend1> I'm just unfriendly unless drinking.[04:18:51] <joobie> or windows admins[04:18:57] <bradend1> I'm a Windows admin.[04:19:01] <bdha> "Some pig!"[04:19:07] <bradend1> Like it that way, too.[04:19:22] <bradend1> That's me, I'm friends with a little pregnant spider, even![04:20:01] <bradend1> Call me terrible, but I've loved Active Directory since the day it was born.[04:20:33] <bradend1> Of course, it needs lots love love and discipline to even work.[04:20:49] <bradend1> Don't make me get my belt, you damn dirty domain controller![04:23:37] <bradend1> You know, for poobox, my SuperMicro boxen do frequently saturate my Infiniband. That's not SO bad.[04:35:12] <bdha> Poo saturation. That happens to my daughter sometimes. :([04:35:57] <bradend1> OK, that does sound bad.[04:36:11] <bradend1> Also a little gross.[04:37:52] <alanc> bdha would have to confirm, but I've heard having a baby is much like being a sysadmin, after a while you've seen so much shit you forget to be disgusted by it[04:38:23] <alanc> diaper duty, pager calls, it's all the same[04:38:49] <bdha> It's very true.[04:39:04] <bdha> Baby waking you up is very similar to an alert.[04:39:11] <bdha> You operate in the same mental space.[04:39:14] <bradend1> Ah. I'm only just into my second decade of sysadminning, so I still get grossed out once in a while.[04:39:33] *** Transformer has joined #opensolaris[04:39:35] <bdha> Rats chewing on your ethernet? Baby literally exploded poop in her diaper all the way up to her chin? Whatever...[04:39:42] <bdha> Systems administration is great training for parenthood.[04:39:55] <timsf> and just after you've cleaned up one mess....[04:39:56] <bdha> For the first 6 months there is a Sev1 you simply cannot resolve.[04:40:00] <bradend1> Though I've reached the point where Sysadmin Day is the only major holiday I observe.[04:40:08] <bdha> You wake up every 30m to do a status check (make sure she's still breathing...)[04:41:10] <timsf> the system appears unhappy, for no readily apparent reason...[04:41:49] <alanc> sometimes it's just as worrying when there's no screaming at you as when you can't figure out the reason for the screaming[04:42:08] <bradend1> These anecdotes don't scare me from parenting, but they do make me want to stop being a sysadmin - the memories are too much![04:42:15] <bdha> It's a not like admining Linux boxes.[04:42:18] <bdha> No introspection.[04:42:21] <bdha> No analytics.[04:42:49] <bdha> Cargo cult indocrination, hundrends or thousands of books with conflicting information...[04:42:53] <bdha> s/not/lot/[04:43:54] *** Transformer has left #opensolaris[04:44:26] <timsf> Yeah, I used the dim-sum approach, cherry-picking features from those baby books, and applying patches as necessary :)[04:45:29] <bdha> Same.[04:45:41] <bdha> "Happiest Baby on the Block" was probably the most useful for the first two months.[05:01:16] *** echelog has joined #opensolaris[05:15:14] *** ihateyou is now known as lewellyn[05:46:46] *** Transformer has joined #opensolaris[05:48:55] *** Transformer has quit IRC[06:07:47] *** Trisk[netbook] has quit IRC[06:14:27] *** held has joined #opensolaris[06:36:13] <mustang> http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7725/malk.jpg[06:49:38] *** Centauri has quit IRC[07:09:28] *** timsf has quit IRC[07:15:22] *** keremet has joined #opensolaris[07:25:02] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris[07:31:55] *** hajma has quit IRC[08:03:26] *** Mdx4 has quit IRC[08:09:05] *** saiju has joined #opensolaris[08:17:32] *** Dagobert has quit IRC[08:31:12] *** mavhc has quit IRC[08:32:34] *** mavhc has joined #opensolaris[08:33:03] *** mavhc has joined #opensolaris[08:33:14] *** dubf has joined #opensolaris[09:11:34] *** hajma has joined #opensolaris[09:15:00] *** Dagobert has joined #opensolaris[09:19:21] *** fisted_ has quit IRC[09:21:17] *** joobie has quit IRC[09:24:15] *** fisted has joined #opensolaris[09:24:34] *** jfisc has quit IRC[09:31:40] *** tsoome has quit IRC[09:47:18] *** iFire has quit IRC[09:48:00] *** iFire has joined #opensolaris[09:50:03] *** hajma has quit IRC[09:53:54] *** hajma has joined #opensolaris[10:04:48] *** sphenxes has joined #opensolaris[10:13:35] *** Whoopsie has joined #opensolaris[10:14:35] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris[10:38:50] *** matteoni has joined #opensolaris[11:02:01] *** snuff-home2 has joined #opensolaris[11:05:27] *** snuff-home has quit IRC[11:14:57] *** wdp has joined #opensolaris[11:14:57] *** wdp has quit IRC[11:14:57] *** wdp has joined #opensolaris[11:46:10] *** niq has joined #opensolaris[11:48:29] *** thistle_ has quit IRC[11:49:06] *** thistle_ has joined #opensolaris[12:06:14] *** PlasticLawnDaemo has joined #opensolaris[12:11:05] *** thistle_ has quit IRC[12:12:01] *** thistle_ has joined #opensolaris[12:12:44] *** echobinary has quit IRC[12:12:59] *** echobinary has joined #opensolaris[12:15:09] *** ganbold has quit IRC[12:17:44] *** ganbold has joined #opensolaris[12:37:14] *** snuff-home2 is now known as snuff-home[12:42:24] *** seanmcg has quit IRC[12:42:34] *** seanmcg has joined #opensolaris[12:43:29] *** thistle_ has quit IRC[12:44:06] *** thistle_ has joined #opensolaris[12:50:17] *** thistle_ has quit IRC[12:50:55] *** thistle_ has joined #opensolaris[12:56:41] *** thistle_ has quit IRC[13:15:18] *** houst0n has joined #opensolaris[13:27:41] *** held has quit IRC[13:49:51] *** held has joined #opensolaris[14:22:33] <miine> brand new IPSit package builder - creating IPS packages as easy as 1 2 3 . Site and IPS repository online at ipsit.de .[14:24:13] <seanmcg> not announcing this on #pkg5 miine ?-)[14:24:30] <miine> thanks. will do that :-)[14:25:06] <seanmcg> miine, can't load on firefox ipsit.de - it redirects and gives me: 414 Request-URI Too Large[14:25:35] <miine> seanmcg: thats bad. will see if I can fix that...[14:25:54] <seanmcg> this is the looong url that it tries to redirect to http://pastebin.com/DsBUpBsj[14:26:06] <seanmcg> well at the pastebin you'll see the url :)[14:26:19] *** piwi has joined #opensolaris[14:49:59] *** joobie has joined #opensolaris[14:50:00] *** joobie has joined #opensolaris[14:52:57] *** joobie has quit IRC[15:01:48] <miine> now ipsit.de is working - removed the redirection...[15:02:46] <seanmcg> nope, still seeing the redirection here[15:03:50] <miine> seanmcg: hmm. restart firefox?[15:04:49] <seanmcg> nope, still redirects :([15:05:08] <miine> firefox on openindiana or something else?[15:05:24] <seanmcg> on s11, could be (transparent) proxies[15:05:31] <seanmcg> works fine from links[15:06:54] <miine> maybe your proxy does some caching. you might try www.ipsit.de . works for me too...[15:07:09] *** dijenerate has quit IRC[15:07:38] <seanmcg> yup, that works thanks miine[15:08:12] *** keremet has left #opensolaris[15:08:31] <miine> fine. take a look at it. have worked some time on it (and have still to do some documentation :P )[15:08:32] <houst0n> aaahh! die Deutschen![15:08:49] <miine> is my english that bad?[15:10:03] <houst0n> Nah, I'm just being annoying[15:10:13] <houst0n> Where in .de are ya?[15:10:23] <miine> near frankfurt.[15:10:40] <houst0n> Never been, my girlfriend lives in Belrin tho[15:10:46] <houst0n> Belrin? Berlin even[15:11:24] *** nachox has joined #opensolaris[15:11:24] *** nachox has joined #opensolaris[15:14:26] *** bradend has joined #opensolaris[15:15:31] *** bradend1 has quit IRC[15:15:49] *** Norrin has quit IRC[15:16:47] *** Norrin has joined #opensolaris[15:18:40] <wdp> miine, near soest?[15:19:37] <miine> no. soest is 2-3h driving away.[15:19:47] <wdp> i see. i'm from there.[15:29:32] *** randw has joined #opensolaris[15:31:24] <nachox> lewellyn, around?[15:32:15] <nachox> lewellyn, you told me windows had something like LU, what was its name?[15:36:12] <Stric> System Restore Point something..[15:38:08] *** elgar has joined #opensolaris[15:38:54] *** echobinary has quit IRC[15:41:30] *** dubf has quit IRC[15:55:20] <nachox> those are windows xp things i think, windows server 2008 doesnt have that[16:05:14] *** dijenerate has joined #opensolaris[16:09:00] *** dijenerate_ has joined #opensolaris[16:11:15] *** dijenerate has quit IRC[16:12:47] *** dijenerate_ has quit IRC[16:22:18] *** icarus902 has joined #opensolaris[16:22:37] *** icarus902 is now known as smaresca[16:22:49] *** Alasdairrr is now known as AlasAway[16:27:20] *** saiju has quit IRC[16:38:55] *** tsoome has quit IRC[16:47:08] *** xinkeT has left #opensolaris[17:14:17] *** yippi has joined #opensolaris[17:24:47] *** yippi has quit IRC[17:25:52] *** yippi has joined #opensolaris[17:28:30] *** bradend1 has joined #opensolaris[17:30:13] *** bradend has quit IRC[17:31:01] *** houst0n has quit IRC[17:31:41] *** bradend has joined #opensolaris[17:33:14] *** bradend1 has quit IRC[17:39:47] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris[17:44:55] *** Hedonista has quit IRC[17:45:01] *** saiju has joined #opensolaris[17:48:57] *** hajma has quit IRC[17:52:34] *** kimc has joined #opensolaris[17:54:41] *** jfisc has joined #opensolaris[17:57:33] *** Hedonista has joined #opensolaris[18:09:53] *** Dagobert has quit IRC[18:13:39] *** lok7a has joined #opensolaris[18:14:29] *** saiju has quit IRC[18:28:52] *** Whoopsie has quit IRC[18:32:42] *** held has quit IRC[18:41:10] *** yippi has quit IRC[18:46:47] *** Norrin has quit IRC[18:49:47] *** sphenxes01 has joined #opensolaris[18:53:24] *** sphenxes has quit IRC[19:02:34] *** randw has quit IRC[19:08:40] *** held has joined #opensolaris[19:10:09] *** heldchen has joined #opensolaris[19:13:06] *** held has quit IRC[19:22:41] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris[19:49:34] *** ewdafa has quit IRC[20:03:03] *** ewdafa has joined #opensolaris[20:14:42] *** Dagobert has joined #opensolaris[20:17:27] *** dca has joined #opensolaris[20:24:13] *** randw has joined #opensolaris[20:25:20] *** Mdx4 has quit IRC[20:36:23] *** matteoni has quit IRC[20:41:35] <lewellyn> nachox: system restore and company use VSS better than previous versions[20:42:19] <nachox> lewellyn, meaning you can apply a patch do some magic and go back to the previous version the same way you do in solais with LU?[20:43:42] * lewellyn claims ignorance on specifics.[20:43:45] <lewellyn> i'm on a mac atm :)[20:45:03] <richlowe> I don't think it works lu-ishly[20:45:05] <nachox> haha[20:45:11] <richlowe> thought it was more like snapshot rollback.[20:45:34] <nachox> meaning you windows has to actually be unbroken enough to let you rollback?[20:46:04] <richlowe> that's a question for lewellyn, certainly.[20:46:55] <richlowe> but VSS in lewellyn's sentence is what they're calling shadow copy now.[20:47:01] <richlowe> though I always find it more fun to read it as "Source Safe" :)[20:47:13] <lewellyn> well, considering i'm windowsless because somehow i disabled system restore without realizing it so i get to fix it manually offline, i really don't know details :)[20:47:16] * lblume has been MUCH happier lately with Windows system restore than LU.[20:47:23] <lewellyn> VSS == Volume Shadow Services (or some such)[20:47:43] <lewellyn> most good backup programs use it, too.[20:47:45] <richlowe> lblume: right, comparing against LU seems pretty unfair.[20:48:06] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris[20:48:18] <lblume> I need a good metaphor to descript LU.[20:48:20] <richlowe> _reminding_ people of LU seems unfair, even.[20:48:31] <richlowe> lblume: well, I can't do metaphor, but the reality is a million lines of ksh held together with spit and tape[20:49:01] <lblume> Like, it's needed like woodworm treatment when you have a wooden leg?[20:49:06] *** niq has quit IRC[20:49:53] <richlowe> that works, I think.[20:50:29] <lblume> Close enough.[20:51:05] <lblume> Right now, I need a crowbar strong enough to open that !@#$% woodworm treatment can that's stuck.[20:52:45] <lewellyn> lblume: that's what you get for not being an english user ;)[20:55:03] <lblume> I'm not a rebel colonist like you either :-)[20:55:25] *** timsf has joined #opensolaris[20:55:27] <nachox> lblume, maybe i should have said beadm instead of LU? :) how did windows system restore help you?[20:59:14] <lblume> nachox: By Just Working when I needed to rollback cleanly, something LU hasn't done properly for me since hmmmm I'd say 2007.[20:59:24] <nachox> haha[20:59:25] <lblume> beadm is another matter.[20:59:46] <nachox> lblume, can you roll it back from windows' boot disk?[21:01:24] <lblume> Good question. Win7 has a pretty extensive list of tools from the boot disk those days, haven't tried them all yet. At least I noticed that it can fix boot automatically when modifying a disk, but only if its partition is the bootable one.[21:03:26] <lewellyn> so totally unrelated and fairly offtopic question (but not totally?): hudson is dead, long live jenkins, right?[21:04:04] <richlowe> nachox: yeah, beadm would be a better example. Much less state[21:04:24] <_Tenchi_> lewellyn: both are still developed[21:04:32] <richlowe> my experience is I've never managed to go back to an old BE cleanly when I actually needed to, that whole "boot the old BE, then type 'luactivate' with no arguments, then..."[21:04:47] <lewellyn> _Tenchi_: i meant in terms of which i should be choosing for a new deployment.[21:04:52] <richlowe> lewellyn: I'm unclear on which is most popular. I switched to Jenkins[21:05:02] <nachox> beadm has never failed me in the past, not once[21:05:09] <richlowe> nachox: right, beadm is fantastic[21:05:19] <lewellyn> richlowe: it looks like most of my tools still support both, but some are dropping hudson. so it doesn't seem totally clear. :/[21:05:35] <richlowe> lewellyn: I switched because, at the time, the "Hudson" side weren't doing a damn thing.[21:05:47] <lewellyn> you mean oracle?[21:05:47] <lblume> richlowe: Heh, luckily that part has worked for me almost each time LU fucked up the new BE because the phase of the moon was not right, or the stars, or just for no particular reason other than making me suffer.[21:05:55] <richlowe> everything I've had go wrong since would have gone wrong anyway. It's still better than any alternate similar tool I've tried[21:06:29] <richlowe> so far the major lossage is a pkcs11 bug on our side, and a configuration bug on there's.[21:06:49] <richlowe> lblume: well, I have to admit after initial experiences, I never used zones and LU at the same time.[21:07:00] <lewellyn> well, looks like "set up jenkins" is on friday's todo list then. :)[21:07:17] <richlowe> the necessary magic added by zulu never seemed to be sufficient.[21:08:47] <tomww> LU sometimes indeed needs a kick or some help. but there are as well configurations so odd that LU has no chance to be prepared (e.g. a zones-root-path sittign directly in a pool base filesystem)[21:10:27] <richlowe> There's a lot of excuses that can be made for it[21:10:33] <richlowe> but they're still excuses, and it's still broken[21:14:05] <lblume> tomww: Yep, odd configurations, such strange and aliens, like having a separate /var, who'd think about testing THAT?[21:14:44] <nachox> i'm not even sure how to configure beadm to manage a separate /var[21:15:05] <nachox> i'm guessing it has something to do with setting up some pool properties but i never tried[21:16:07] <tomww> lblume: no one really thinks of a separate var on a zfs root system anymore :-)[21:16:16] <tomww> thats so 80s :)[21:17:29] <tomww> parts of the LU code might be older then the operators at the keyboard in the meanwhile :-)[21:17:47] <lblume> You surely mean separate /usr. There are still good reasons for a separate /var, or separate anything that can grow and eat up all the rest, like /var/log, or /var/mail[21:19:16] <tomww> I would like to have that separate as well. but I work around with only haveing my applications in /var/ owning a separate sun filesystem, not the whole /var.[21:20:32] <tomww> and probably there hasn't been enough demand. Or, other LU problems have be solved first :[21:22:23] <lblume> Like the one that breaks it up if you mount a volume on a directory that belongs to a different pool.[21:22:39] <timsf> some three letter agencies require a separate /var - so it was written :-/[21:23:06] <timsf> separating unpackaged files from /var into their own shared dataset is also a worthy goal imho[21:23:36] <lblume> And one that works only if the dataset is part of rpool.[21:23:56] <richlowe> Tim's talking about things you will only have seen if you have S11EA[21:24:19] <timsf> alas, also stuff that never quite made it. roll on the updates[21:25:09] <timsf> (separate /var did, shared /var didn't)[21:25:33] <richlowe> oh[21:25:47] <richlowe> I take it back then.[21:25:51] <richlowe> lblume: Tim's prophesying.[21:26:55] <lblume> ahhhh.... the holy grailof the shared /var...[21:27:29] <lblume> logs that would not be concatenated back in, thus breaking the chronological order of their lines...[21:27:44] <_Tenchi_> heh[21:27:46] <timsf> Right.[21:28:11] <timsf> the ips dev-guide describes how to do it in s11, it's just not as fully integrated as we'd like.[21:28:18] <timsf> yet[21:30:08] <lblume> So you'll be our official prophet and reach to heavens when it happens?[21:30:33] <richlowe> woe woe and thrice woe![21:31:30] <timsf> :-)[21:33:35] <lblume> We need more IT-based religions anyhow.[21:34:19] <timsf> we don't have enough of those already? http://www.ibiblio.org/Dave/Dr-Fun/df9612/df961220.jpg[21:36:18] <lewellyn> timsf: you should have linked to fsf.org :)[21:36:52] <timsf> ha![21:36:53] <tomww> is that cartoon realy so old?[21:37:08] <timsf> time flies[21:37:57] <tomww> yes. they wold stare into some ebook reader or tabletts today :)[21:40:39] <tsoome> :)[21:49:22] * lewellyn hides his tablet[21:49:53] <lewellyn> not that i can run what i compiled for it last night :([21:49:53] <lewellyn> Error: Cannot find application entry point[21:55:10] *** niq has joined #opensolaris[21:59:18] *** Dagobert has quit IRC[22:03:16] *** Dagobert has joined #opensolaris[22:04:25] *** comay has quit IRC[22:05:22] *** fisted has quit IRC[22:11:04] *** comay has joined #opensolaris[22:12:39] *** fisted has joined #opensolaris[22:16:11] *** Dagobert has quit IRC[22:16:54] *** Martiini has joined #opensolaris[22:23:13] *** Martiini has quit IRC[22:29:11] *** darrenb has quit IRC[22:31:15] *** Martiini has joined #opensolaris[22:41:13] *** randw has quit IRC[22:42:10] *** WormDrink has joined #opensolaris[22:42:37] *** darrenb has joined #opensolaris[23:01:51] *** Martiini has quit IRC[23:20:56] *** sphenxes01 has quit IRC[23:21:42] *** _grim has joined #opensolaris[23:27:20] *** _grim has left #opensolaris[23:55:01] *** nachox has quit IRC[23:56:52] *** WormDrink has quit IRC