October 7, 2011 
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October 7, 2011 [00:00:29] *** nachox has quit IRC[00:01:17] *** wdp_ has quit IRC[00:03:30] *** muppetdaemon1 has joined #opensolaris[00:05:58] *** muppetdaemon has quit IRC[00:06:28] *** muppetdaemon has joined #opensolaris[00:07:41] *** muppetdaemon2 has joined #opensolaris[00:07:53] *** muppetdaemon1 has quit IRC[00:09:22] *** muppetdaemon2 has left #opensolaris[00:09:52] *** Fullmoon has quit IRC[00:10:50] *** muppetdaemon has quit IRC[00:17:43] *** dijenerate has joined #opensolaris[00:34:17] *** elgar has quit IRC[00:37:12] *** comay has joined #opensolaris[00:37:24] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o comay[00:40:49] *** Emmedics4 has quit IRC[00:44:02] *** kdavy has joined #opensolaris[00:52:18] *** AxeZ has quit IRC[00:59:28] *** longcat has joined #opensolaris[01:00:03] <longcat> pagesize -a says my system supports 4k and 2m pages... how do i get a process to use 2m pages? ppgzsz -o heap=2m <program> works, but pmap -sx shows the heap is using 4k pages[01:00:12] <longcat> how do i get this to work ?[01:00:29] *** echobinary has quit IRC[01:00:46] <tomww> I think the memory model of your compiled binary[01:01:57] <tomww> if your program reqests only small junks of memory, then you have no advantages of a 2m page.[01:04:08] <longcat> according to http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=174103&seqNum=3 "this option" being -xpagesize_heap=n, "...the same effect as setting the LD_PRELOAD environment variable to mpss.so.1..."[01:04:50] <longcat> that is to say, recompiling isnt any better than setting the LD_PRELOAD to load mpss... which i also tried[01:05:14] <tomww> allow a question, why do you think 2m pages do help your program?[01:11:29] <longcat> no thanks... please, i dont want to go through what happens again. ill just call it an experiment. it looks like it might because of fragmentation. but all the damned kernel options like kernel_cage_enable have changed[01:17:34] <tomww> the solaris memory allocator (page scanner) tries hard to find free junks of memory big enough to provide continues[01:17:46] <richlowe> kcage is a sparc-ism[01:17:53] <tomww> memory as answer to an application memory allocation request[01:18:49] <tomww> so if your app really needs lots of memory (say a large database), then it is sometimes better to requrest large pages and do internal memory stuff in the app[01:19:51] *** InTheWings has quit IRC[01:20:54] <richlowe> longcat: you don't have good work arounds, if it's fragmentation, except "start the application not long after boot"[01:23:36] *** sipior has joined #opensolaris[01:23:41] <longcat> ok... i rebooted and have gigs of free ram... ran ppgsz -o heap=2m top and ran pmap -sx <pid> and under [heap] it shows 4k page size allocations.[01:25:11] <tomww> looks like the application doesn't request bigger junks.[01:25:32] <longcat> wouldnt it get 1 2mb chunk for the first heap request?[01:25:43] <tomww> but the problem of fragmentaion just should not exist right after boot. is heave filesystem IO involved (ZFS?)[01:26:23] <longcat> eh... not really. im doing a zfs rollback, but free memory is just trickling down[01:27:05] <tomww> if the system call for memory only request a small junk, then there is no need for a 2m allocation... but this goes into details only specialists can overview, I think.[01:27:19] <tomww> free memory the OS displays?[01:27:30] <tomww> please please don't trust those numbers.[01:27:48] <tomww> please read the doco on how to interpret those numbers :)[01:28:15] <tomww> only few know that threre is different types of "free" since years (Solaris 8)[01:28:27] <longcat> well... ::memstat says there's only 800mb of zfs file data used, and about 5gb on the freelist[01:28:46] <tomww> okay, then you first should study the doco.[01:28:56] <tomww> watch out for memory really on the free list,[01:29:20] <tomww> then go to the think where there is a list of "potential" free momory (forgot about the exact name).[01:29:33] <tomww> if you have a filesystem read cache, you need memory.[01:30:05] <tomww> once this read cache ages, that is only last frequently used by reads, it is put on a potential free memory list.[01:30:31] <tomww> of you read again and the page (memory mapped IO) is not yet dirty, you can just have that page and use it.[01:30:51] <longcat> ahhh there. i did a dd | ppgsz less, and i see 2M pages allocated[01:31:07] <tomww> if a large memory allocation request is coming in, then the page scanner can use pages from that potential free list and remove it from there for fresh use.[01:31:16] <longcat> so the system is reasonably smart, that's nice[01:31:20] <tomww> so numbery always don't show what we operators expect.[01:32:05] <longcat> so it was just my fault for letting the memory fragment, then my test was faulty too[01:32:27] *** Reepicheep has quit IRC[01:32:30] <tomww> the reson for this method was, if you use memory mapped IO, you are allocating a lot memory for it, but only use it once for instance.[01:33:00] <tomww> but you could have a need for reading it again, this is the usefullness of the potential free memory, but still valid, non-dirty data there ready to be used.[01:33:38] <tomww> if the sae system runs an application with huge memory consumption, the both don't linker steal the memory form eatch other.[01:33:50] <tomww> (well, long story described very short)[01:34:06] *** ewdafa has quit IRC[01:36:58] <tomww> Ah, I think the terms "freelist" and "cachelist" are more apropriate. and both have memory which can be re-used for applciation reqests, priority is the freelist. if that runs low,[01:37:14] <longcat> even shorter, you're saying consider the freelist and cachelist as free. i wonder what to pshows[01:37:17] <tomww> the page scanner wakes up and tries to find new free pages[01:38:11] <tomww> time to leave, have fun with the memory/pagescanner model of Solaris :-)[01:38:21] <longcat> see ya around, and thanks[01:39:48] *** sipior has quit IRC[01:39:52] <tomww> :-) you are welcome. on URL, dunno if it is all correct, but looks good: http://tinyurl.com/6b8r7cg[01:44:46] *** dijenerate has quit IRC[01:50:28] *** echobinary has joined #opensolaris[02:09:36] *** fisted has quit IRC[02:11:13] *** fisted has joined #opensolaris[02:20:00] *** paniczero has quit IRC[02:24:08] *** comay has quit IRC[03:01:10] *** HyperJohnGraham has quit IRC[03:07:46] *** kimc has quit IRC[03:12:33] *** randw_ has quit IRC[04:07:54] *** deet has quit IRC[04:14:26] *** symptom has joined #opensolaris[04:48:55] *** niq has quit IRC[04:51:07] *** timsf has quit IRC[04:52:53] *** ingenthr has joined #opensolaris[04:54:10] *** ingenthr has quit IRC[04:56:09] *** ingenthr has joined #opensolaris[05:04:48] *** deet has joined #opensolaris[05:12:38] *** ingenthr has quit IRC[05:21:58] *** symptom has quit IRC[06:35:06] *** comay has joined #opensolaris[06:35:20] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o comay[07:15:45] *** Fullmoon has joined #opensolaris[07:24:28] *** Fullmoon has quit IRC[07:24:35] *** Fullmoon has joined 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*** eXeC001er has joined #opensolaris[14:46:44] *** held has quit IRC[14:51:01] *** held has joined #opensolaris[14:54:27] *** darrenb has quit IRC[14:56:22] *** GdeLeo has joined #opensolaris[14:57:08] *** fisted has quit IRC[15:00:45] *** darrenb has joined #opensolaris[15:04:37] *** fisted has joined #opensolaris[15:07:00] *** GdeLeo has left #opensolaris[15:10:18] *** bradend1 has joined #opensolaris[15:10:27] *** jfisc has quit IRC[15:12:56] *** bradend has quit IRC[15:14:52] *** cdVarLog has joined #opensolaris[15:17:05] <cdVarLog> Added a 2nd drive to box (c2t1d0). Want to turn existing rpool (on c1t1d0) into a mirror. is the correct command? zpool add rpool mirror c2t1d0[15:18:41] <cdVarLog> or maybe?? zpool create rpool mirror c1t1d0 c2t2d0[15:18:51] *** bradend has joined #opensolaris[15:21:21] *** bradend1 has quit IRC[15:21:50] <tomww> you tell zpool which drive is the existing one with the data, then as well tell zpool which drive is the new one to receive the copy[15:22:15] *** jfisc has joined #opensolaris[15:22:31] <tomww> ao you essentially are attaching (accoding to the existing layout add something), not adding (make pool grow)[15:23:07] <tomww> the problem with "adding" is, you can't take out that device any more[15:23:08] <cdVarLog> so the correct command would be 'zpool attach' ?[15:23:12] <tomww> yes[15:23:23] *** jfisc has quit IRC[15:23:58] <tomww> if a device is accidentailly added, you need to copy out all data to a temprary other disk, destroy and recreate the pool you wanted the device attached[15:24:12] <tomww> (the repair is a bit complicated for a boot pool)[15:24:19] <cdVarLog> thanks[15:24:56] <cdVarLog> zpool attach rpool c1t1d0 c2t1d0 (looks like it, reading man now)[15:25:08] <tomww> *one day* there might be a feature capable of relocating blocks off a disk to another disk, then you can free a disk from all use and take it out (not yet implemented)[15:25:31] *** jfisc has joined #opensolaris[15:25:48] *** calLNCH is now known as calumb[15:25:49] <tomww> in your example the disk with data is c1t1d0 and the new empty disk is c2t1d0[15:26:01] <cdVarLog> tomww while i have you .. the new drive is MUCH bigger, once the mirror is created i could "zpool detach" the original drive and "Zpool attach" a 2nd new drive .. correct?[15:26:05] <tomww> but you might not get happy with the device names, c1t1d0[15:26:09] <cdVarLog> kk[15:26:17] <tomww> might be more c1t1d0s0 or something[15:26:52] <cdVarLog> ok, i'll try it your way ;)[15:27:11] <tomww> to make the bot disks contain the same DOS-fdisk partition and Solaris VTOC you can can use fdisk or dd and prtvtoc fmthard[15:27:26] <tomww> you run a X86 system?[15:27:33] <cdVarLog> yes x86[15:27:50] <tomww> if you are really sure the target disk is empty, you can do this[15:28:15] <tomww> dd if=/dev/dsk/c1t1d0p0 of=/dev/dsk/c2t1d0p0 bs=512 count=1[15:28:37] <tomww> after that running format on the c2t1d0 should print on the "fdisk" menu that the same DOS style partition is in place.[15:28:48] <tomww> after this, make the Soalris VTOC identical with:[15:28:53] <cdVarLog> i have a single aging 80gig for rpool and bought two 500gigs .. want to replace the old drive with mirrored 500gigs[15:29:07] <cdVarLog> tis the ultimate goal[15:29:09] <tomww> prtvtoc /dev/dsk/c1t1d0s2 | fmthard -s - /dev/rdsk/c2t1d0s2[15:29:25] <tomww> keep in mind this is all without any security questions from the tools[15:30:30] <cdVarLog> so i just need 'prtvtoc' ? or i need both those cmds in sequence?[15:30:50] <tsoome> prttoc with fmthard is only good for identical disks (and on x86 youhave to have fdisk partition created already).[15:31:09] <cdVarLog> oh ok[15:32:15] *** mietek has joined #opensolaris[15:32:23] <cdVarLog> 1+0 records in[15:32:24] <cdVarLog> 1+0 records out[15:32:28] <cdVarLog> thats it for 'dd'?[15:34:32] *** tsoome has quit IRC[15:35:50] <cdVarLog> fmthard: New volume table of contents now in place.[15:36:35] *** mietek has left #opensolaris[15:37:27] *** jfisc has quit IRC[15:37:28] *** dubf has quit IRC[15:40:09] <cdVarLog> resilvering :)[15:47:48] <tomww> yeah. thats what I love with Solaris style OS, it just works.[15:48:37] <tomww> cdVarLog: just read the backlog[15:49:19] <tomww> yes, once resilvered, you can offline and detach the original disk (can be reactiveted then in case of an accident)[15:49:55] <tomww> then you can use a DOS fdisk partition tool and keep the geometry, but make the DOS partiton larger[15:50:33] <cdVarLog> cool thank you![15:50:34] <tomww> after that you can return to solaris and use fromat -> partition to enhance the existing slice S0 but keeping the starting position.[15:50:51] <tomww> that way you can allow zpool to grow the existing pool[15:51:07] <cdVarLog> great.[15:51:08] <tomww> you have only one pool currently?[15:51:18] <cdVarLog> yeah on this machine[15:51:32] <tomww> if not, then the excercise would have been a bit more complicated becasue of overlapping :)[15:51:33] <cdVarLog> i just started working here .. it only had one drive to start .. but i got to pull my OS of choice[15:51:59] <tomww> which partition tools are you familiar with? well, not very hand, but my personal favorite is sfdisk on a linux rescue boot cd[15:52:24] <tomww> this way *I'm* the boss and tell which layout really gets onto the disk.[15:52:38] <cdVarLog> at home i have rpool mirrored across 2 drives and my data is on dpool mirrored across 2 more physical drives[15:52:46] *** snuff-home2 is now known as snuff-home[15:52:57] <tomww> about the detach, keep in mind this also deletes the metadata on the detached disk, so please first "offline" the disk[15:53:10] <cdVarLog> ahh good to know[15:53:15] <tomww> to keep this data, then detach (can anyone confirm this)[15:53:22] <cdVarLog> i use which ever partitoion tool i can get my hands on when i need one lol[15:53:42] <cdVarLog> i think i've heard that before to offline first .. but totally forgot till you mentioned it[15:54:06] <tomww> if you know sfdisk, this is one of the more low level ones, only hexediting by hand is lower level then sfdisk[15:54:21] <cdVarLog> kk[15:55:15] <tomww> I prefer a no-magic partitoning tool :), so no automatic logic calculations destroy the start and the geometry stuff.[15:56:04] <cdVarLog> i generally don't get very detailed with my partitions. I keep it as simple as possible.[15:56:11] <cdVarLog> but i hear what your saying :)[16:01:57] *** dijenerate has quit IRC[16:38:07] *** elgar has joined #opensolaris[16:43:33] <CIA-56> SFE kenmays: Xfce 4.8: Added SFExfce4-battery-plugin.spec, SFExfce4-dict-plugin.spec, SFExfce4-notes-plugin.spec,SFExfce4-sensors-plugin.spec,SFExfce4-verve-plugin.spec,SFExfce4-xfapplet-plugin.spec[16:45:11] <CIA-56> SFE kenmays: Xfce 4.8: Added SFExfce-gvfs-mount.spec[16:46:21] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris[16:47:47] *** Thrae has quit IRC[16:48:06] *** Thrae has joined #opensolaris[16:51:47] *** axisys has quit IRC[16:52:25] *** axisys has joined #opensolaris[17:10:49] *** spanglywires has joined #opensolaris[17:12:47] *** jfisc has joined #opensolaris[17:17:03] *** jamesd_ has quit IRC[17:19:32] *** ingenthr has joined #opensolaris[17:29:18] *** jamesd_ has joined #opensolaris[17:37:02] *** ikonia has quit IRC[17:37:50] *** mattd has joined #opensolaris[17:38:24] *** ikonia has joined #opensolaris[17:38:29] *** ikonia has joined #opensolaris[17:40:27] *** dijenerate has joined #opensolaris[17:40:49] *** ikonia has quit IRC[17:41:05] *** ikonia has joined #opensolaris[17:45:55] *** ajkn has quit IRC[17:49:02] *** darrenb has quit IRC[17:50:07] *** jfisc has quit IRC[17:55:02] *** MilkmanDan has quit IRC[17:56:36] *** darrenb has joined #opensolaris[18:12:07] *** Whoopsie has quit IRC[18:17:26] *** jfisc has joined #opensolaris[18:17:42] *** jfisc1 has joined #opensolaris[18:17:53] *** jfisc1 has left #opensolaris[18:22:14] *** jfisc2 has joined #opensolaris[18:25:20] *** jfisc has quit IRC[18:26:54] *** jfisc has joined #opensolaris[18:36:04] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris[18:39:18] *** ImTheBrightSunny has joined #opensolaris[18:39:51] *** ImTheBrightSunny has quit IRC[18:41:58] *** spanglywires has left #opensolaris[18:44:05] *** dijenerate has quit IRC[18:48:57] <CIA-56> SFE kenmays: SFExfce4-ristretto.spec: Bump to 0.1.0[19:15:19] *** calumb has quit IRC[19:16:24] *** Edgeman has quit IRC[19:22:19] *** fOB has joined #opensolaris[19:26:32] *** Edgeman has joined #opensolaris[19:32:30] *** niq has quit IRC[19:35:56] *** held has quit IRC[19:39:21] <CIA-56> SFE tom68: experimental/SFEopenldap.spec: inital spec *new*[19:54:16] *** Mdx4 has quit IRC[19:56:07] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris[19:59:16] *** held has joined #opensolaris[20:07:14] *** kimc has joined #opensolaris[20:10:25] *** comay has joined #opensolaris[20:10:44] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o comay[20:19:24] *** fOB has quit IRC[20:25:43] *** eXeC001er has quit IRC[20:27:52] *** nachox has joined #opensolaris[20:29:59] *** Z` has joined #opensolaris[20:35:07] *** merzo has joined #opensolaris[20:37:37] *** cdVarLog has left #opensolaris[20:38:34] *** dijenerate has joined #opensolaris[20:47:55] *** AxeZ has joined #opensolaris[20:54:37] *** niq has joined #opensolaris[20:55:52] *** Z` has quit IRC[20:55:57] *** dijenerate has quit IRC[20:57:39] *** Z` has joined #opensolaris[20:58:43] *** Z` has quit IRC[20:59:24] *** Z` has joined #opensolaris[21:05:22] *** synegy34 has joined #opensolaris[21:07:57] *** jeffpc_ has joined #opensolaris[21:14:12] *** piwi has quit IRC[21:15:02] *** piwi has joined #opensolaris[21:23:37] <CIA-56> illumos Bayard Bell <buffer.g.overflow at gmail dot com>: 1153 remove krtld support for _depends_on Reviewed by: Robert Mustacchi <rm at joyent dot com> Reviewed by: Garrett D'Amore <garrett at nexenta dot com> Reviewed by: Jason King <jason.brian.king at gmail dot com> Reviewed by: Richard Lowe <richlowe at richlowe dot net> Approved by: Gordon Ross <gwr at nexenta dot com>[21:44:13] *** Mdx4 has quit IRC[21:52:19] *** dominiq has quit IRC[21:56:14] *** smrt has quit IRC[21:56:28] *** smrt has joined #opensolaris[21:56:47] *** alanc changes topic to "opensolaris.org will be down Fri. Oct 7 - Mon. Oct 10 | OpenSolaris is dead, long live the community! Use Solaris 11 or the open fork, #illumos | Solaris 11 Express 2010.11 (151a): http://bit.ly/d809HG | OpenIndiana 151a: http://goo.gl/CrDOy #openindiana | Docs: (READ THEM!) http://goo.gl/emjEm | Sysadm Guide: http://goo.gl/HLcXT | Linux->Solaris migrants: http://bhami.com/rosetta.html |"[21:57:18] <alanc> sorry smrt, the length reaper cut you off the end of the /topic[21:58:38] <Triskelios> time to place bets on *which* October it'll be back up[21:59:34] <richlowe> alanc: if you're doing that stuff, perhaps EA rather than 11X?[21:59:50] <richlowe> presuming the rumours that it only _said_ it needed OTN magic, rather than actually doing so are accurate[22:00:02] <alanc> well the data center power is supposed to be back on by this monday morning - how fast the os.o admins bring it back online is another story[22:00:40] <richlowe> Obviously they should .... rush more![22:00:42] * richlowe puts on sunglasses[22:00:47] <nachox> haha[22:01:05] <nachox> os.org without os/net feels hollow[22:01:07] <alanc> more rush? I think we can find some mp3's....[22:01:28] <alanc> (band, not windbag)[22:02:22] <richlowe> nachox: most of the good stuff was the people involved, most of whom still are (though it's obviously far harder to notice, given the list-silence)[22:02:51] <nachox> yep[22:04:13] <nachox> it was cool knowing what was to come. it is also what makes solaris 11 less interesting, we've been using some of the features they are announcing as new for years[22:07:48] <alanc> oh, and I'm not sure if EA is the right thing to recommend, since you can't upgrade to it from OS or 11X[22:08:02] *** dijenerate has joined #opensolaris[22:08:13] <richlowe> oh, duh, I knew that.[22:08:35] <richlowe> nachox: it still has stuff that's pretty cool and will interest folks.[22:08:36] *** lala has joined #opensolaris[22:08:37] <alanc> well, "you" (rich) can, since you know how to build a new enough pkg, but "you" the general user base...[22:09:00] <alanc> they have to wait for shawn's backport to finish code review and get published to a repo[22:09:16] <richlowe> nachox: though I know a bunch of outside folk are claiming otherwise, I have no idea from where they're getting information.[22:09:24] <richlowe> so it is possible I'm wrong, if others are better informed.[22:10:20] <alanc> 11EA should have just about all the new stuff, but there's a lot of changes between 11X & 11EA[22:10:21] <nachox> richlowe, it sure does, its a huge leap forward from solaris 10, but its not THAT different from the last indiana release[22:10:38] *** Z` has quit IRC[22:11:14] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris[22:12:12] <richlowe> It's certainly different enough to have things you could very reasonably be excited about.[22:12:32] <richlowe> alanc: glad to see your marketing folks are still as good as ever.[22:13:12] * alanc doesn't know who made the decision to go back to S10 style date names for the S11 11/11 release[22:14:26] <nachox> uX was more... sane[22:15:04] <alanc> the update numbers were always the internal names, not intended for customer use, all the way back to the first Solaris 7 updates[22:15:21] <alanc> Solaris 7 3/99[22:15:45] <nachox> dates just get lost[22:15:52] <richlowe> treat them as fractions[22:16:09] <alanc> marketing thought customers found them more useful than mere numbers[22:16:26] <richlowe> so "7.03" for that one, and "11.1" and ...[22:16:26] <alanc> not having to remember that s10u2 was 4 years ago[22:16:53] <richlowe> then you just have to arrange your release schedule such that you never duplicate[22:17:06] <richlowe> so if you release in june '12, don't release in july '14[22:18:15] <nachox> people will always have a reason to complain[22:20:50] <richlowe> I just wanted someone else to have reason to argue about bloody version numbers :)[22:27:15] *** nachox has quit IRC[22:43:03] *** Meths has quit IRC[22:43:53] *** niq has quit IRC[22:49:16] *** Meths has joined #opensolaris[22:50:20] *** sphenxes has quit IRC[23:13:25] *** cdVarLog has joined #opensolaris[23:14:42] *** dijenerate has quit IRC[23:27:10] *** cdVarLog has quit IRC[23:28:22] *** cdVarLog has joined #opensolaris[23:30:15] *** jeffpc_ has quit IRC[23:30:50] *** jeffpc has joined #opensolaris[23:41:24] * cdVarLog coffee[23:42:14] *** niq has joined #opensolaris[23:45:23] *** elgar has quit IRC[23:47:05] *** Fullmoon has quit IRC[23:50:29] *** Mdx4 has quit IRC[23:51:48] * datadigger likes ISO 8601[23:55:39] *** cdVarLog has left #opensolaris