April 5, 2010 
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April 5, 2010 [00:01:53] *** dalibor has quit IRC[00:02:06] *** sstallion has joined #opensolaris[00:03:27] *** twilling has quit IRC[00:06:09] *** kpt-pejsek has joined #opensolaris[00:11:48] *** andersenep has joined #opensolaris[00:14:21] *** sndcrb has quit IRC[00:18:10] *** lattera has quit IRC[00:22:11] *** tg has quit IRC[00:22:30] *** tg has joined #opensolaris[00:26:09] *** katohisa has joined #opensolaris[00:28:23] *** moepmoep has quit IRC[00:32:38] *** moepmoep has joined #opensolaris[00:33:46] *** sergiusens has quit IRC[00:39:55] *** andersenep has quit IRC[00:47:58] *** katohisa has quit IRC[00:49:33] *** RoyK has joined #opensolaris[00:49:47] *** andersenep has joined #opensolaris[00:49:57] *** ma3x has joined #opensolaris[00:52:04] <andersenep> nice earthquake[00:52:28] *** psychicist has quit IRC[00:54:03] <reflect> andersenep: ?[00:54:46] <kukhuvud> yeah, that was freaky[00:54:52] <kukhuvud> long one[00:55:20] <kukhuvud> not too much into on knx that i didn't already know from 5 minutes of googling[00:55:30] <kukhuvud> not too much info on knx[00:55:38] <palowoda> 6.9 mag[00:55:54] <palowoda> Down in Baja[00:55:58] <kukhuvud> yeap[00:56:05] <kukhuvud> strong here in los angeles[00:56:10] <palowoda> http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/recenteqs/Quakes/ci14607652.html[00:59:20] <andersenep> strong here in Yuma, AZ...we aren't too far from San Luis[01:00:24] <andersenep> shook the hell out of my building. I was outta here...[01:00:29] <andersenep> still getting aftershocks[01:00:39] *** CodeWar has joined #opensolaris[01:01:40] <kukhuvud> i had just gotten out of the shower and was like "damn, now i have to put on pants!"[01:02:06] *** kwinz3 has quit IRC[01:03:08] <kukhuvud> say, if i want to change the name of the "staff" group to something else, can i just change it in /etc/group and then just go along my merry way?[01:03:30] <kukhuvud> or will changing the name break group permission in acl's?[01:04:39] *** kwinz3 has joined #opensolaris[01:05:53] *** ingenthr has joined #opensolaris[01:07:18] <_Trullo> heh, I'm on stormy daniels twitter[01:07:19] <_Trullo> StormyDaniels[01:07:19] <_Trullo> WOW!!!! That was a good one! Long too! Earthquake was just so strong that my boobs were jiggling! LOL[01:07:27] <_Trullo> hehe[01:09:34] *** samc has quit IRC[01:09:45] *** samc has joined #opensolaris[01:09:58] * g4lt-mordant doesn't want to knpw why _Trullo is following SD ;P[01:10:09] <_Trullo> she's hot :)[01:10:47] <g4lt-mordant> most of the ones I'd follow would be "yup, still dead". I'm just getting old :/[01:10:51] <_Trullo> useless information tho, it was funny awhile ago tho when her horse got avicted from the stable because they found out the owner was a pornstar :)[01:11:41] <reflect> if this isn't a bot, this person is a moron.[01:11:41] <g4lt-mordant> what, did they think she was doing lewd acts to it?[01:12:00] <g4lt-mordant> reflect, ?[01:12:41] <reflect> wrong channel[01:12:44] <_Trullo> nah, they didn't want people with that kind of background around their stables, so she had to move the horse[01:13:29] <g4lt-mordant> reflect, you're saying that whjoever you were talking about would cause a zombie to starve? ;P[01:14:10] <g4lt-mordant> sounds like it'd bring in MORE business ;P[01:14:38] <reflect> g4lt-mordant: this is a bit scary, I was just discussing zombieland and survival of the dead in another channel[01:14:45] <reflect> :)[01:15:24] <g4lt-mordant> peoples' mindsdo turn to zombies on Zombie Jesus Day[01:15:42] *** ingenthr has quit IRC[01:21:39] *** Disorganized has joined #opensolaris[01:21:40] <andersenep> man, still shaking here...that was a good one[01:25:09] <g4lt-mordant> andersenep, you could solve that if you lost some weight ;P[01:26:48] <andersenep> heh, i'm 5'9 and weigh 140 wet. if i lost any more weight i'd disappear[01:27:41] *** ewdafa has quit IRC[01:31:05] *** holywars has joined #opensolaris[01:33:36] *** zynox has quit IRC[01:34:12] *** InTheWings has quit IRC[01:34:17] *** zynox has joined #opensolaris[01:39:37] *** vergil66 has joined #opensolaris[01:43:12] *** nachox has joined #opensolaris[01:48:22] *** ingenthr has joined #opensolaris[01:49:11] *** kukhuvud has quit IRC[01:49:38] *** freakazoid0223 has joined #opensolaris[01:50:28] *** _madmax_ has quit IRC[01:51:57] *** kukhuvud has joined #opensolaris[01:52:39] *** jenky has joined #opensolaris[01:53:13] *** Setsoru has joined #opensolaris[01:54:47] <jenky> how do I tell the pink monster (Codeina) to quit bugging me about buying Fluendo?[01:55:30] *** loke has quit IRC[01:55:38] <nikolam> buy codecs or find alternative[01:56:02] *** rmorse has quit IRC[01:56:28] <jenky> nope. i've got the codec installed. rhythmbox is happily playing the audio file.[01:56:49] <jenky> i can quite understand it helping me, if the codecs not installed[01:56:52] <jenky> but it's installed[01:57:19] <reflect> pink monster.. ?[01:57:29] <jenky> guess you haven't seen the icon :)[01:57:40] <jenky> it's like a pink marshmallow man[01:57:40] <reflect> no[01:58:24] <g4lt-mordant> jenky, pkg remoce codeina works ;P[01:59:14] <jenky> g4lt-mordant: ah.. thank you. i was halfway to realising that once i realised it was this codeina app popping up, not rhythmbox itself.. argh[01:59:25] <nachox> jenky, remove the codenia stuff from gnome's autostart[01:59:34] <jenky> reflect: /usr/share/codeina/icons/codeina.png[02:00:16] <CodeWar> creepy[02:00:27] <jenky> do i need it? i also get a ton of messages from rhythmbox saying i am missing plugins.. i guess those are really just warnings; i can only play mp3s as that's all i have from fluendo[02:01:04] <reflect> well, I don't have that one[02:01:11] *** ivan_ has joined #opensolaris[02:02:00] *** deet has joined #opensolaris[02:02:17] *** ivan_ has left #opensolaris[02:04:30] <jenky> hmmm still not sure how i got a monster out of that icon. looks quite different when its bigger[02:05:45] *** vergil66 has quit IRC[02:07:35] <g4lt-mordant> smrt: explain homeunix[02:07:36] <smrt> Homeunix.com is a dynamic DNS name available for free use. There are unknown individuals who use hostnames at this domain to distribute software. Treat them as you would treat any other binary program received from anonymous entities. See also: ips.homeunix.com[02:07:47] <g4lt-mordant> smrt: explain ips.homeunix.com[02:07:48] <smrt> a multimedia repo at http://ips.homeunix.com not official, or in fact legal in some areas. See also: homeunix[02:08:17] <g4lt-mordant> jenky, listen to smrt, it just told you how to get codecs without paying fluendo ;)[02:08:30] <jenky> many thanks[02:11:24] <nachox> g4lt-mordant, i thought it was not legal in the us[02:11:46] <g4lt-mordant> nachox, read the factoid[02:11:50] <jenky> i'm not in the us[02:12:14] *** Jenkens_ has joined #opensolaris[02:12:29] <Jenkens_> Good evening[02:13:14] <Jenkens_> I'm trying to diagnose when I have a user's ACL set to file_inherit and dir_inherit (or one or the other independent) I cannot copy sparsebundles from OSX to the CIFS share. Once I toggle this off for the particular user/share I can copy them fine?[02:13:44] *** sstallion_ has joined #opensolaris[02:13:46] <Jenkens_> anyone else ever experience that?[02:13:47] *** sstallion has quit IRC[02:15:35] *** nitrile_ has quit IRC[02:17:13] *** axisys_ has quit IRC[02:17:42] *** axisys has joined #opensolaris[02:20:39] *** nitrile has joined #opensolaris[02:20:51] *** randw has joined #opensolaris[02:22:29] *** ingenthr has quit IRC[02:23:14] *** jenky has quit IRC[02:23:35] *** gebi has quit IRC[02:29:17] *** Hazelesque has quit IRC[02:31:04] *** lattera has joined #opensolaris[02:31:38] *** q5sys has joined #opensolaris[02:31:50] *** Jenkens_ has quit IRC[02:33:34] *** ozux has quit IRC[02:35:40] *** Yu\2 has quit IRC[02:37:32] *** Rune- has joined #opensolaris[02:38:51] *** Mdx4 has quit IRC[02:55:08] *** Odin- has quit IRC[02:59:36] *** deet has quit IRC[03:01:42] *** andersenep has quit IRC[03:09:41] *** icarus901 has joined #opensolaris[03:11:49] *** nitrile has quit IRC[03:12:03] *** andersenep has joined #opensolaris[03:13:26] *** nitrile has joined #opensolaris[03:21:00] *** RoyK has quit IRC[03:25:14] *** CodeWar has quit IRC[03:29:43] *** vraa has joined #opensolaris[03:30:56] *** relling has quit IRC[03:36:41] *** Macer has quit IRC[03:38:47] *** eleusis has quit IRC[03:38:55] *** vraa has quit IRC[03:40:08] *** eleusis has joined #opensolaris[03:40:08] *** eleusis has joined #opensolaris[03:44:30] *** thistle__ has quit IRC[03:47:50] *** randw has quit IRC[03:47:54] *** randw has joined #opensolaris[03:50:16] <lattera> so I'm setting up a few zfs cifs shares using zfs sharesmb=on dataset[03:50:32] <lattera> I did it once for one account and that works fine[03:50:41] <lattera> and I did the same thing for another account[03:50:47] <lattera> and the second account doesn't work[03:52:33] <lattera> these are the steps I used to create the user and share:[03:52:43] <lattera> zfs create tank/shares/edward[03:52:44] *** chronos_ has joined #opensolaris[03:52:52] <lattera> useradd -d /tank/shares/edward edward[03:53:07] <lattera> /bin/chmod A+user:edward:full_set:fd:allow /tank/shares/edward[03:53:10] <lattera> passwd edward[03:53:19] <lattera> zfs set sharesmb=name=edward /tank/shares/edward[03:53:39] *** holywars has quit IRC[03:53:41] <lattera> I did the same steps for user mario, replacing edward with mario[03:53:48] <lattera> the account on the client machine for mario works great[03:53:52] <lattera> but edward doesn't work[03:54:07] *** cybernd has quit IRC[03:54:15] <lattera> any reason why?[03:57:02] *** tosh has quit IRC[03:57:08] <zedrich> check ownership of shares for users[03:57:09] <zedrich> and ACLs[03:57:17] <lattera> ACLs are fine[03:57:17] <zedrich> make sure they are 1:1 the same for users[03:57:24] <zedrich> whats the issue[03:57:30] <zedrich> auth denied for a share?[03:57:33] <zedrich> on the windows machine?[03:57:36] <lattera> I think it might be windows[03:57:55] <lattera> because browsing the shares on linux works fine and dandy[03:58:12] <zedrich> you cant auth to a server with differetn credentials[03:58:12] *** drgbr has joined #opensolaris[03:58:16] <zedrich> on windows[03:58:27] <lattera> yeah you can, you just have to specify it[03:58:34] <zedrich> right[03:58:56] <lattera> in the "Map Network Drive" dialog, you can specify different credentials[03:59:03] <zedrich> try a different windows machine and go to the share that isnt working first as the right user[03:59:04] <zedrich> yeah i know[03:59:13] <zedrich> get more robust in trouble shooting i guess :D[03:59:15] <lattera> this is my only windows machine :([03:59:29] <zedrich> hmmm[03:59:39] <zedrich> #java invite only? whats up with that bs[03:59:47] <zedrich> anyone here in #java that can invite me?[04:01:27] <DerSaidin> join ##java[04:09:20] *** Macer has joined #opensolaris[04:10:26] *** smyth_rj has quit IRC[04:13:52] <Macer> hello[04:23:22] *** chronos_ has quit IRC[04:30:02] *** cmecca has joined #opensolaris[04:30:42] *** syamajala has joined #opensolaris[04:31:30] <cmecca> if you kill the dd from /dev/zero of a disk half way through[04:31:37] <cmecca> do you have to restart it before you can format the disk[04:31:39] <cmecca> and let it finish?[04:37:19] *** randw has quit IRC[04:37:30] *** cmecca has left #opensolaris[04:38:52] *** kwinz3 has quit IRC[04:40:17] *** javashin has joined #opensolaris[04:40:54] *** kwinz3 has joined #opensolaris[04:45:16] *** Jenkens has joined #opensolaris[04:47:50] *** javashin_ has joined #opensolaris[04:48:43] <andersenep> damn, i just updated the BIOS on my MB and now opensolaris won't boot...I get a grub menu and can select a BE, but shortly after selecting it reboots :-([04:49:36] *** lattera has quit IRC[04:50:41] *** javashin has quit IRC[04:50:59] *** ayarter has joined #opensolaris[04:51:18] *** Fallen_Demon has joined #opensolaris[04:51:55] <ayarter> hey all. My package manager doesn't work. Well, pkg does, but the GUI one doesn't do anything, other than ask for an admin password. When I run it from a terminal, it just gives no response, and ends.[04:52:01] <ayarter> Any ideas? I'm using 134[04:53:38] *** Shoggoth has joined #opensolaris[04:54:42] *** vraa has joined #opensolaris[04:54:46] *** syamajala has quit IRC[04:56:03] <CIA-21> Mark Shellenbaum <Mark.Shellenbaum at Sun dot COM>: 6940770 panic in sa_find_idx_tab() after receiving into pool when version shouldn't have allowed it[04:56:48] *** javashin__ has joined #opensolaris[04:58:50] <Shoggoth> hi all![04:58:57] *** javashin_ has quit IRC[04:59:17] <Shoggoth> I've been waiting patiently (impatiently ?) for 2010.03 (04?) to be released[04:59:28] <Shoggoth> but I'm afraid I don't think I can hold off much longer[05:00:00] <Shoggoth> So I'm looking for some feedback for those of you who have been playing with the current b134 preview[05:00:09] <DerSaidin> andersenep: what is the last thing on the screen before it reboots?[05:00:27] <Shoggoth> how stable and reliable are people finding the zfs dedupe code?[05:01:07] *** motas has quit IRC[05:01:18] <andersenep> the opensolaris gui boot screen with the little slider on it. i've tried editing the entry and deleting console=graphics but, either way makes no difference.[05:01:48] <nachox> andersenep, you need to delete the splashscreen crap too[05:01:59] <DerSaidin> andersenep: or hit escape when you get to that screen and it will show you the console output[05:02:02] <nachox> and the background and foreground lines too[05:02:15] <DerSaidin> if you can press it early enough[05:02:16] <andersenep> i'll give it a whirl[05:02:45] <andersenep> ok[05:03:07] <andersenep> findroot (pool_rpool,0,a)[05:03:22] <andersenep> Filesystem is type zfs, partition type 0xbf[05:04:02] <andersenep> bootfs rpool/ROOT/nvidia-newboot (just installed old nvidia gfx card and had it working)[05:04:16] <andersenep> Error 27: Unrecognized command[05:04:34] <andersenep> back to grub[05:04:53] <andersenep> there we go[05:05:36] <andersenep> hrm, let me try to get something more verbose i guess...spat out some stuff about unexpected EOF in rge.conf that's been there for a while. I thought i'd fixed that, but it's not a problem[05:05:45] <ayarter> I'm on the 134 preview for sparc. It has some issues here and there[05:05:50] <ayarter> but all in all, its pretty rad![05:06:49] <Shoggoth> ayarter: I'm assuming that was a response to my question[05:07:02] <Shoggoth> what issues "here and there" are you experiencing?[05:07:22] <andersenep> damn, another earthquake....[05:07:51] <ayarter> Shoggoth: There's an issue with mounting zfs filesystems from time to time, and an issue with my package manager now, but that occured after an upgrade from 133 -- so its kind of expected[05:08:03] <ayarter> ander: Right? Felt the one this afternoon[05:08:30] <andersenep> it's been quiet for the past 3-4 hours and now another one[05:08:44] <Shoggoth> ayarter: could you flesh out the mounting issue a little?[05:09:24] <ayarter> well, since the 134 upgrade, sometimes when I boot, I get Mounting ZFS file systems (-/-)[05:09:40] <ayarter> and for some reason the disk label is no good. Once I rep[air the label its just fine[05:09:53] <ayarter> Never hav the problem in S10 or build 133[05:09:56] <ayarter> *had[05:10:23] <ayarter> but heck, I've had a bajillion more problems with final releases of linux, so I'm not gonna bitch too much.[05:10:52] <Shoggoth> ayarter: so it's not simply a case of reboot and everything is fine... you need to repair the label?[05:11:08] <ayarter> So it seems.[05:11:19] <Shoggoth> ayarter: and it's consistent? ie. you need to do it everytime you get the mount problem?[05:11:21] <ayarter> But this is preview 134 on sparc, and I pretty much reboot once a week.[05:11:46] <ayarter> It happens every so often -- just takes a few minutes to fix though[05:12:18] <ayarter> and I seriously doubt you will have the problem on x86 p134[05:12:39] *** relling has joined #opensolaris[05:12:57] <Shoggoth> have you or someone else filed a bug report? ie. is it something that the dev's know needs to be fixed before the official release?[05:13:57] <Shoggoth> ayarter: have you been using the dedupe functionality ?[05:14:29] <ayarter> I dShoggoth: No, I haven't[05:14:54] <Shoggoth> ayarter: thanks for your feedback[05:14:59] <ayarter> Honestly, I haven't had a lot of time lately to play with any new features.[05:15:33] <Shoggoth> is anyone else able to provide $0.02 worth? I'd really like to get some feedback from someone who has been using the dedupe functions[05:16:05] *** chilicuil1 has joined #opensolaris[05:16:25] *** Shoggoth has quit IRC[05:16:54] *** Shoggoth has joined #opensolaris[05:17:44] *** Shoggoth has quit IRC[05:18:09] *** Shoggoth has joined #opensolaris[05:18:50] *** chilicuil has quit IRC[05:20:39] <Shoggoth> hi again! stupid x-chat crapped out on me... did someone else offer up any comments on zfs dedupe with the current b134 preview whilst I entered the twilight zone?[05:22:03] <ayarter> nope[05:22:21] <ayarter> Its super easy to enable though :)[05:22:29] <ayarter> and it didn't give me any strange errors when I did[05:23:49] <Shoggoth> ayarter: I'm kind of curious to see if anyone has had their data disappear into /dev/null as a result of the dedupe code...[05:23:56] <andersenep> heh, forgot to put onboard SATA controller in AHCI mode :-)[05:26:11] *** Nofer has quit IRC[05:26:12] <andersenep> surprised i got as far as i did in the boot[05:26:12] <andersenep> all these earthquakes must have rattled me brains...beer probably didn't help either[05:26:54] <Shoggoth> andersenep: that depends... did you have the beer before or after the quake (during perhaps) :)[05:27:09] <andersenep> after[05:27:18] <Shoggoth> calm the nerves eh....[05:27:41] <ayarter> ander:Where are you at?[05:27:49] <andersenep> yuma, arizona[05:28:00] <ayarter> Ahh. Los Angeles here[05:28:11] *** Jenkens_ has joined #opensolaris[05:28:27] <Shoggoth> ayarter: you were somewhat closer methinks[05:28:42] <andersenep> nope :-)[05:29:05] <ayarter> ShoggothL I don't think so[05:29:13] <andersenep> it was 40 miles south of San Luis[05:29:34] <andersenep> big boy though, shook LA and Las Vegas pretty well[05:30:16] <ayarter> sure did. I was busy driving though,[05:30:22] <ayarter> being pissed off at my mechanics. lol[05:30:22] <Shoggoth> oh really! the news here is saying that the quake was in baja calif.[05:30:42] <ayarter> Shog:It was I beleive[05:30:49] <Shoggoth> my understanding of US geography is that LA would be closer to that[05:30:52] <andersenep> heh, baja calif is in mexico :-)[05:30:52] <Shoggoth> but then again....[05:30:59] <Shoggoth> yes I know that![05:31:12] <Shoggoth> lol[05:31:16] <ayarter> Nope. Baja cali is Mexico, probably around 200 miles south[05:31:21] <ayarter> I believe Az would be closer[05:31:24] * Jenkens_ is confused[05:31:28] <andersenep> http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsus/Maps/US2/32.34.-116.-114.php[05:31:55] <Jenkens_> how does acl property (aclinherit in particular) differ from file_inherti and dir_inherit set in the ACL list?[05:32:16] <Shoggoth> eh... well that's good to know... I have a mate in AZ... I guess I'll have to call him up and see if he's found his sea-legs :)[05:33:50] <Jenkens_> the inhert flags inherit the property from the parent directory to the child files/subdirs. where ACL passthrough does seemingly the same thing[05:36:07] *** kpt-pejsek has quit IRC[05:36:14] *** ShadowHntr has joined #opensolaris[05:37:22] *** Meths has quit IRC[05:38:49] *** javashin__ has quit IRC[05:39:59] *** ayarter has quit IRC[05:43:50] *** Garen has quit IRC[05:44:28] *** Garen has joined #opensolaris[05:51:19] *** javashin__ has joined #opensolaris[05:54:43] <system5> hey shoggoth, are you still there?[05:54:52] <system5> * paging shoggoth *[05:54:56] <Shoggoth> yep[05:55:00] <Shoggoth> sorry... stepped out for 5[05:55:11] <Shoggoth> sup[05:55:13] <system5> if you want a pain free way to play with ZFS dedupe, try OpenSolaris build snv_129[05:55:17] <system5> my favorite build so far[05:55:36] <Shoggoth> ok....[05:55:38] <system5> there are just two tiny little bugs that aren't really bugs I've had to deal with[05:55:52] <Shoggoth> ....?[05:55:58] <system5> they're not really bugs, it's more like a configuration file says "x" when it should say "y" so you need to edit the configuration file with vi[05:56:16] <system5> you'll have to do that configuration file editing twice, once to get Apache to work, and another time to get IPS to install zones[05:56:17] <Shoggoth> do you remember off the top of your head which files and what edits?[05:56:21] <system5> yes I do[05:56:28] <system5> I posted it on opensolaris.org, let me dig up my old post[05:56:48] <Shoggoth> so you've tried the newer builds and been dissatisfied?[05:56:58] <system5> if it wasn't for those two minor configuration file mal-edits that need to be fixed, snv_129 for me would be a more polished / perfected version of 2009.06[05:57:01] *** Error404NotFound has joined #opensolaris[05:57:02] <system5> like the ultimate 2009.06[05:57:06] *** ganbold has quit IRC[05:57:22] <system5> I tried 130 and 131 and had problems with gnome hanging after log in[05:57:51] <system5> there's all kinds of crazy stuff that happened after 129, but 129 for me is just 2009.06 with bug fixes and ZFS dedupe, which is what I wanted[05:58:19] <Shoggoth> ok... I'll grab the install iso... what's the automated install iso exactly do... and don't say automates installation :)[05:58:26] <system5> I edited grub to get rid of that stoopid orange "knight rider" happy face boot thing[05:58:34] <system5> uhhh, automated install is for advanced users[05:58:35] <system5> heh[05:58:38] <Shoggoth> right[05:58:44] <system5> like kickstart in Red Hat or Jump Start in Solaris 10[05:58:53] <system5> I think it lets you customize your system a lot more[05:59:06] <Shoggoth> that's what I would have suspected... but thanks for the clarification[05:59:10] <system5> but it takes a lot of time to figure out what all the packages and crap you need and don't need are, which is why I haven't tried it yet[05:59:17] <system5> because I'm very short on time[05:59:19] <system5> I have deadlines[05:59:24] <Shoggoth> out of curiosity have you played with b134?[05:59:28] <system5> nope[05:59:33] <system5> haven't played with 134[05:59:38] <system5> my uptime on snv_129 is ridiculous though[05:59:47] <system5> server has been up since the build was released[05:59:52] <Shoggoth> and have you made extensive use of dedupe?[05:59:56] <system5> and I stripped GNOME out and made it command line only[05:59:57] <system5> yes[06:00:01] <system5> I have dedupe and compression[06:00:02] <Shoggoth> ok...sweet[06:00:08] <system5> the uptime is so good because I do everything in zones[06:00:12] <Shoggoth> crypto?[06:00:34] *** Error404NotFound has quit IRC[06:00:39] <system5> all my work is done in non-global zones and not the global zone, so if I need to change something critical, I reboot the non-global zone without rebooting the global zone, hence my ridiculous uptime, get it?[06:00:52] <system5> I think 129 would be a good desktop too[06:00:53] <Shoggoth> yep.... zones are sweet![06:01:00] <system5> I'm probably going to standardize on that build since I know it so whell[06:01:03] <system5> * so well[06:01:06] <Shoggoth> I've got my current install running as a Xen VM[06:01:18] <Shoggoth> so the GNOME stuff isn't really useful to me[06:01:19] <Shoggoth> :)[06:01:21] <system5> yeah, there might be a problem with Xen / xVM on 129, not sure[06:01:24] <system5> I haven't tried it yet[06:01:41] <Shoggoth> hmmm...[06:01:44] <system5> I'm just running a ton of dedup-ed zones with applications and developers working in them[06:01:48] *** javashin__ has quit IRC[06:01:54] <Shoggoth> I'm looking at using it as a domU not dom0[06:01:55] <system5> well, try it and tell me if you have a problem[06:02:15] <system5> Shoggoth, you know how to get rid of the stupid happy face boot and get a text only "-v" verbose boot in grub, right?[06:02:24] <system5> it's the first thing I do to every opensolaris box, desktop or server[06:02:26] *** Jenkens_ has quit IRC[06:02:28] <system5> is kill the knightrider thing[06:02:31] <Shoggoth> I think I can figure it out[06:02:45] <Shoggoth> besides if I run it as a domU paravirt I won't get that crap anyway[06:02:51] <Shoggoth> no VGA[06:02:51] <Shoggoth> :)[06:02:56] *** Funk-E has joined #opensolaris[06:03:14] <system5> yeah, but don't you want to see what's happening on the text console when it boots up?[06:03:29] <Shoggoth> yep I sure do[06:03:53] <Andys^> on servers for sure...[06:03:56] <ShadowHntr> i've wanted to try paravirt[06:04:00] <system5> you need to take all the unnecessary parts out of the /rpool/boot/grub/menu.lst file[06:04:00] <ShadowHntr> virtualbox and vmware mostly[06:04:00] <Shoggoth> but I think I can edit the grub file to do the right thing[06:04:02] <skeeziks> system5: How do you do it? I'm curious.[06:04:08] <ShadowHntr> but i'm not sure how it's done[06:04:13] <ShadowHntr> i haven't found much documentation online[06:04:22] <system5> ok[06:04:33] <system5> lemme SSH into one of my servers and copy and paste the grub menu.lst for you[06:04:34] <Shoggoth> I'm currently running and earlier release 2009.06 or maybe even 2008.X as a paravirt domU[06:04:36] <Shoggoth> works well[06:05:33] <system5> you guys need to say a prayer that I don't get kicked for copying and pasting this here instead of using bastebin, but it's only a couple of lines[06:05:53] <system5> maybe better if I just say it[06:06:00] <system5> edit /rpool/boot/grub/menu.lst[06:06:26] <system5> comment out or delete the following lines (probably have comments or '#' symbols at the beginning of mine since I commented them)[06:06:35] <system5> #splashimage /boot/grub/splash.xpm.gz[06:06:46] <system5> #splashimage /boot/solaris.xpm[06:06:46] <system5> #foreground d25f00[06:06:46] <system5> #background 115d93[06:07:14] <system5> and get rid of the "console=graphics" part of the kernel line and add a "-v" for verbose boot so you can see all the kernel messages as it boots up[06:07:17] <system5> so change:[06:07:27] <system5> kernel$ /platform/i86pc/kernel/$ISADIR/unix -B $ZFS-BOOTFS,console=graphics[06:07:29] <system5> to[06:07:39] <system5> kernel$ /platform/i86pc/kernel/$ISADIR/unix -B $ZFS-BOOTFS -v[06:07:50] <system5> try it right now in VirtualBox if you have OpenSolaris installed in there[06:08:06] <system5> the verbose "-v" textboot is beautiful, it's like a FreeBSD boot, with all kinds of useful and informative messages[06:08:27] *** lattera has joined #opensolaris[06:08:33] <system5> looks a bit like a FreeBSD boot actually, since both Solaris and BSD have roots in UNIX[06:08:39] <system5> Solaris more in UNIX System V R4 though[06:08:46] <Shoggoth> heh... speaking of which... I asked a question about an hour ago on the vbox-dev channel... is it usually a quiet channel?[06:08:52] <system5> I dunno[06:09:00] <Shoggoth> I'm assuming that some ppl here are also on there[06:09:08] <system5> I don't really have that much time for IRC, probably shouldn't even be here while I"m at work :-)[06:09:18] <Shoggoth> lol[06:09:29] <Shoggoth> work eh? which TZ are you in?[06:09:33] <system5> so try those GRUB changes in VirtualBox tell me if they work, I'll get you the bug list for snv_129[06:09:40] <system5> hey do any of you read Dennis Clarke's Blog?[06:09:47] <system5> you know Dennis Clarke, the guy who runs blastwave[06:10:04] <system5> a lot of the stuff I know I stole from Dennis Clarke and Ben Rockwood[06:10:15] <system5> they were kind of my teachers indirectly[06:11:30] <system5> on SPARC you can do the verbose boot by typing in "boot -v" at the OK prompt, that's how I did it on my old Netra T1 with Solaris 10 installed on it, anyway[06:14:05] <Shoggoth> yes.... that's a hangover from the old SunOS / BSD days[06:14:21] * system5 loves verbose boot[06:14:33] <Shoggoth> I've only just come back to solaris land after a very long absence[06:14:45] *** ganbold has joined #opensolaris[06:14:47] <Shoggoth> I started off with SunOS3.x and left at Sol7[06:15:00] <system5> Solaris land is so much better than Linux land, I would use FreeBSD but there's no vendor support and IHV support for so many things[06:15:12] <system5> like try getting good Nvidia binary blog drivers for OpenBSD... good luck there[06:15:37] <Shoggoth> eh... there's a lot to like about linux too but I don't like the ABI instability and the Ego factor[06:15:57] <system5> my biggest problem with FreeBSD was, I do a lot of CISCO work, and my Keyspan USA 19-HS USB to serial adapter wouldn't work with FreeBSD[06:16:03] <Shoggoth> OpenBSD is great for a perimeter firewall box...but I wouldn't run it as a deskop[06:16:32] <system5> worked right away as soon as I plugged it in to Solaris x86:[06:16:33] <system5> http://www.sun.com/io_technologies/vendor/faq_usa_19hs_usb_to_serial_device.html[06:17:01] <system5> so Solaris does have some IHV / ISV support, not as much as Red Hat Linux and certainly not as much as Microsoft Windows / Mac OS X[06:17:17] <system5> but better than the 0% IHV / ISV support you get in *BSD land where all device drivers have to be reverse engineered[06:17:37] <system5> so that's why I made Solaris / OpenSolaris my main Desktop OS[06:17:48] <system5> Linux was just pissing me off too much every time I upgraded it[06:17:54] <system5> any of you guys read linux hater's blog?[06:18:12] <Shoggoth> I use a combination of ubuntu, solaris & macos for my desktops[06:18:13] <Shoggoth> :)[06:18:18] <system5> some of the stuff is so hilarious because it describes exactly what I was experiencing with Ubuntu, and I thought it was only me that was experiencing it[06:18:23] <system5> I can't afford a Mac[06:18:28] <system5> those are for rich people[06:18:34] <Shoggoth> lol...[06:18:53] <system5> Mac's are very expensive considering how slow and minimal the hardware is[06:18:58] <Shoggoth> they aren't that expensive... compare it with an equally spec'd dell or hp[06:19:15] <Shoggoth> the problem is atm that they lag with current h/w availability[06:19:19] <DesiJat> trolololol[06:19:22] <system5> not really, I bought an HP that was better equipped and faster than a Mac Book Pro on e-bay for $400 and installed OpenSolaris on it[06:19:46] <Shoggoth> ahh... eBay... well you aren't (pardon the pun) really comparing apples with apples there are you[06:19:54] <system5> a good spec mac is hard to get for less than $500 on e-bay[06:20:15] <Shoggoth> I would never buy a whole system off of ebay[06:20:15] <Aria> Yeah. Also because they don't break and vents dont' clog.[06:20:24] <system5> I'm on a tight budget, which is why if they raise the OpenSolaris support over $324 it might break my piggy bank and force me to stop buying it[06:20:31] <Shoggoth> too many dodgy sellers on ebay[06:20:31] *** aszeszo has quit IRC[06:20:41] <Shoggoth> besides it's different for you yanks[06:20:57] <Andys^> ebay is awesome[06:21:00] <Shoggoth> we don't get the deep discounts on hardware that you do[06:21:04] <Shoggoth> ebay is full of theives[06:21:10] <Andys^> they're easy to spot though[06:21:17] <system5> I took the Soviet / Russian / CHinese military approach of getting a whole bunch of stuff and throwing it out there and hope enough of it works to have an effect[06:21:18] <Shoggoth> ahem... I disagree[06:21:20] <Andys^> ebay lets me buy things with USA hardware discounts despite not living in USA :)[06:21:23] <system5> human wave attacks[06:21:24] <system5> lol[06:21:37] <DesiJat> system5: how much are u paying for opensolaris right now?[06:21:48] <Andys^> shoggoth: i see you are a fellow oztralian ;)[06:21:48] <system5> $324 for a one year support contract[06:21:54] <system5> how much are you paying DesiJat ?[06:21:57] <DesiJat> do u use the support contract?[06:21:58] <DesiJat> $0[06:22:03] <DesiJat> i dont have a support contact for opensolris[06:22:04] <system5> sometimes I use it[06:22:07] <Shoggoth> and the real problem for me at least is that buying anything from the US (ebay or otherwise) is that shipping for the US is unbelievably expensive and really unreliable[06:22:09] <system5> I use the support repository[06:22:11] *** aszeszo has joined #opensolaris[06:22:19] <Shoggoth> Andys^: yes indeed I am[06:22:23] <Shoggoth> which state you in?[06:22:23] <Andys^> shoggoth: i get stuffed shipped to a PO box, which seems to make it alot more reliable[06:22:26] <Andys^> Sydney[06:22:33] <taemun> sydney is a state now?[06:22:34] <Shoggoth> I get everything shipped to a po box[06:22:37] <taemun> wow, the times they change[06:22:44] <Andys^> and, amazingly, for some items its still cheaper to buy off ebay and ship it here than buy it locally :([06:22:46] <system5> do you guys use ed2k? I think someone might through the codeina codecs up there sometime soon for people who can't afford them[06:22:53] <system5> think of it as "try before you buy"[06:22:58] <Andys^> for example, server motherboards[06:23:05] <Andys^> high-end NICs and HBAs[06:23:06] <Andys^> SSDs[06:23:09] <Shoggoth> taemun: essentially yes.... the urban sprawl is getting that bad :)[06:23:13] <taemun> :P[06:23:25] <taemun> Andys^: on the server mobo thing, thats only because Digicor suck[06:23:29] <taemun> and like their margins[06:23:33] <Andys^> yes[06:23:33] <Andys^> :|[06:23:35] <Shoggoth> Andys^: I find it easier, cheaper and faster to buy stuff from the UK[06:23:36] <Andys^> also[06:23:40] <system5> ok, so you guys wanted to know about the couple of workarounds I used for snv_129, right?[06:23:45] <Andys^> i've had Supermicro things *ship* faster to my door via ebay than via digicor[06:23:45] <system5> let me get back on track and look that up[06:23:46] <Shoggoth> system5: yep[06:23:50] <taemun> haha[06:23:52] <Andys^> as well as be cheaper[06:24:11] <Andys^> however, for chassis i must use digicor[06:24:20] <Shoggoth> the real problem with the US is shipping, USPS is the _worst_ postal service on earth[06:24:28] <Shoggoth> and the private couriers aren't any better[06:24:28] <Andys^> well, i'd agree, until the last few years[06:24:33] <Andys^> suddenly they put their prices up and service got alot better[06:24:34] <Shoggoth> and it's all so bloody expensive[06:24:48] <Aria> Heh, yeah. And the distances are high.[06:24:49] <taemun> USPS EMS?[06:24:54] <taemun> I've never had a problem with EMS[06:24:54] <Aria> (Though UPS rocks locally)[06:24:59] <Andys^> as for couriers.. DHL, Fedex have always cost alot, but service has been amazing[06:25:00] <Shoggoth> they all completely suck from the US[06:25:00] * system5 system5 is googling himself to try to find what he said earlier about snv_129 bugs[06:25:17] * Aria snorts. DHL.[06:25:20] <Shoggoth> I've used all of them over the years... I'm sure they're very good at delivering with the US (and to Canada)[06:25:32] <Shoggoth> but delivering to AU is a joke[06:25:35] <taemun> Shoggoth: I'm in Melbourne[06:25:37] <Andys^> how so?[06:25:39] <taemun> the Australian one :P[06:25:42] <Aria> Might be lucky if it arrives the same week here if it comes DHL[06:25:43] <Aria> "Sorry we missed you. Next delivery attempt will be next Monday."[06:25:45] <Shoggoth> I once had a package sent by airmail and it took 9months[06:25:49] <Andys^> wtf :)[06:25:59] <Aria> Well, that's just it being lost.[06:26:01] <system5> Shoggoth, go to this link:[06:26:02] <system5> http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=464909[06:26:04] <system5> and scroll down[06:26:05] <Andys^> i shipped a *monitor* once by Fedex and it arrived in 3 days[06:26:10] <Shoggoth> I've had it happen a lot[06:26:11] <taemun> TOLL once took four weeks for airmail package from perth to melbourne for me[06:26:21] <Andys^> taemun: lol.. wtf?[06:26:30] <taemun> they put the wrong sticker on it[06:26:31] <Shoggoth> Andys^: 3-days from the US?[06:26:32] <system5> the topic is about IPMI / BMC not working in OpenSolaris (it only worked in Solaris Express and Solaris 10) but you'll see I mentioned the two major bugs in 129[06:26:36] <system5> and how I worked around them[06:26:37] <taemun> it went by truck to NT[06:26:39] <taemun> and got lost[06:26:52] <Andys^> shoggoth: yes... but it cost $250 USD :)[06:26:52] <system5> my post on February 15th, 2010[06:26:58] <system5> you see it Shoggoth?[06:27:06] <Shoggoth> wow... ring guiness book right now!!!!![06:27:13] <system5> what I said was:[06:27:19] <Andys^> no.. whenever i used fedex, it was almost always 3 days[06:27:31] <Shoggoth> thanks![06:27:34] <Andys^> but since ~2008 I switched to USPS EMS[06:27:39] <system5> what I said was:[06:27:40] <system5> OpenSolaris snv_129 is working great for me after I worked around this zone installation bug:[06:27:43] <system5> http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=13493[06:27:46] <system5> and this apache bug:[06:27:48] <system5> http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6907454[06:27:50] <Shoggoth> Andys^: I would agree that fedex is the best of them[06:27:51] <system5> https://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=445511[06:27:53] *** lattera has quit IRC[06:27:58] <system5> so yeah, just edit those two configuration files and snv_129 is a rock solid UNIX system[06:28:02] <system5> at least it was for me[06:28:04] <Andys^> good ol' fastcgi[06:28:09] <Shoggoth> UPS was awful... I haven't used them in a few years so they may have improved[06:28:23] <Shoggoth> system5: thanks * 10^6[06:28:24] <Andys^> their brown shirts are aweful[06:28:35] <Andys^> you know whats amazing though? Hong Kong Post[06:28:39] <system5> basically zones won't install because IPS on snv_129 tries to grab from whatever the latest /dev build is when you try to create a zone[06:28:40] <Shoggoth> yes!!!![06:28:47] <Andys^> shipping stuff from hong kong to sydney costs like $3 and takes less than a week[06:28:55] <Shoggoth> the good postal services are UK, France and HK[06:28:56] <Andys^> so i tend to buy RAM and SSD from there[06:28:59] <system5> and then goes "what the hell, what we are trying to grab from IPS isn't 129, it's the latest build" and it craps out[06:29:07] <system5> so you just edit the script that IPS runs[06:29:23] <Shoggoth> I don't bother shipping stuff from HK though... I go there regularly enough just to buy it at the store :)[06:29:35] <system5> you edit the /usr/lib/brand/ipkg/pkgcreatezone file[06:29:40] <Andys^> heheh[06:29:46] *** vraa has quit IRC[06:29:58] <system5> add a "-f" option to pkg list in that file and now IPS zone creation works on snv_129[06:29:58] <Shoggoth> Andys^: which suburb you in... if you don't mind me asking[06:30:03] <system5> you following me shoggoth?[06:30:07] <Shoggoth> cool![06:30:22] <Andys^> shoggoth: work in the city, live in Miranda.... you?[06:30:28] <Shoggoth> yes... I'm making a transcript[06:30:31] <system5> with Apache, you have this bug:[06:30:32] <system5> http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6907454[06:30:43] <Shoggoth> I'll read it over when the damn ISO finished downloading :)[06:30:43] <system5> just edit /etc/apache2/2.2/conf.d/fcgid.conf[06:30:45] <system5> and you are done[06:30:48] *** lateau_ has quit IRC[06:30:59] <Shoggoth> system5: thanks!!!!![06:31:02] <Andys^> for example, i got 4GB FB-DIMMs from hong kong to here for $99 USD shipped[06:31:17] <system5> yeah, make sure you bookmark those pages, my problem is I figure out how to solve stuff the first time and then forget what I did later and can't reverse engineer myself (i.e. figure out what I did)[06:31:22] <system5> heh[06:31:25] <Shoggoth> Andys^: I live in the ryde area and I work everywhere :)[06:31:26] *** initLevel has joined #opensolaris[06:31:35] <initLevel> hello[06:31:43] <system5> so they're not really bugs, just stuff in stupid text files and scripts not being the way it's supposed to[06:31:49] <Shoggoth> system5: yep it's a common problem... I should learn to keep a journal[06:31:51] <system5> that's different from say, something actually crashing[06:32:02] <initLevel> Why is the #solaris chat so silent all the time[06:32:08] <system5> errr, I dunno[06:32:10] <Shoggoth> Andys^: you a sysadmin?[06:32:11] <system5> I"m in there sometimes[06:32:13] <system5> too busy tonight[06:32:27] <system5> yeah Andys^ what do you admin? hopefully Solaris?[06:32:32] <system5> I'm a Linux sysadmin[06:32:41] * system5 system5 blames Linus Torvalds for ruining his life[06:32:49] <Shoggoth> lol[06:32:54] <Shoggoth> it could be worse[06:33:13] * system5 system5 spends so much overtime fixing borked Linux machines that his girlfriend things he's having an affair[06:33:18] <Shoggoth> it could be "system5 blames Bill Gates for turning him into a Senior Reboot Technician"[06:33:36] <initLevel> Not to sound provocative but who here actually prefers Solaris 10 u8 to the current OpenSolaris[06:33:54] <Andys^> system5: a bit of everything. opensolaris for ZFS-based NAS, bsd for firewall/routers, linux for everything else, windows if someone calls in a favour :P[06:34:18] <Andys^> oh, and VMware esx(i)[06:34:22] <Shoggoth> heh... I've had to learn so much windows over the last few years[06:34:28] <Andys^> (he most important bit :)[06:34:47] * system5 system5 underwent a Sith Lord style conversion after spending years fixing bricked Linux servers & desktops and now vows revenge against Linus Torvalds and his stooges for wasting so much of his time[06:34:53] <Shoggoth> shoggoth blames VMware for turning him into a senior reboot tech.[06:34:57] <Andys^> hahah[06:35:12] <system5> LOL I had the purple screen of death on a customer's VMware ESXi box[06:35:21] <Shoggoth> really... sweet![06:35:22] <system5> ^%#$ that s@#t[06:35:37] <initLevel> system5, so you came over to Solaris from Linux?[06:35:42] <system5> and the vsphere client only works on Windoze[06:35:46] <system5> well Linux pays my bills[06:35:50] <Shoggoth> yeah... don't start me[06:35:52] <system5> Solaris and OpenSolaris are more like a hobby[06:35:55] <Andys^> system5: i only run linux and winblows in VMs nowadays :)[06:36:02] <Shoggoth> I started into VMware with ESX 2.x[06:36:10] <system5> I'm like the dumb mechanic that fixes Toyotas for a living but dreams of working on Ferraris[06:36:11] <Shoggoth> back then it was rather unix-ish[06:36:12] <Andys^> and yeah.. vsphere client... thats why Sun gave us VirtualBox ;)[06:36:43] <system5> but yeah, my plan to get revenge on Linux and co. is basically to support OpenSolaris, FreeBSD and OpenBSD as much as I can[06:36:49] <system5> you guys seen the movie Karate Kid?[06:36:52] <Shoggoth> that's the only thing linux has over solaris[06:37:00] <taemun> my /usr/lib/idmapd keeps using more and more ram[06:37:02] <system5> There is no fear in my OpenBSD Cobra Kai dojo!!!![06:37:04] <taemun> based on system uptime[06:37:11] <Andys^> shoggoth: its still not too bad. you can admin ESX completely from command line, though some tasks are much easier frmo the GUI[06:37:11] <Shoggoth> leisure suit larry and his minions might pull the plug at any minute[06:37:21] <system5> not pull the plug[06:37:35] <system5> they will kill OpenSolaris via their own confusion about what's going on in their own company[06:37:35] <Shoggoth> Andys^: that's only true if you can do powershell[06:37:39] <Shoggoth> :([06:37:43] <system5> right now, you call Oracle on the phone and try to buy support[06:37:51] <Shoggoth> yes I know[06:37:57] <Shoggoth> you can't get a friggin' support contract[06:38:00] <Shoggoth> idiots!!!!![06:38:01] <system5> and the Oracle sales reps tell you to e-mail an e-mail address that doesn't accept e-mail from the public internet[06:38:11] <system5> I don't think it's deliberate[06:38:15] <system5> I just think they don't have a clue[06:38:16] <system5> heh[06:38:24] <taemun> I always assume incompetence over malice, @ system5[06:38:30] <Shoggoth> it's the same everywhere these days[06:38:32] <system5> it's what the U.S. Army calls a "Charlie Foxtrot"[06:38:42] <initLevel> I remember when Linux acted really compliant and had a lot of good utilities in the userland[06:38:53] <system5> the right hand at Oracle doesn't know what the newly grafted S'norcle left hand is doing[06:38:53] <initLevel> right out-of-the-box, like Red Hat back in the day esp.[06:38:56] <system5> and vice versa[06:39:06] <initLevel> I'm really angry about the state of linux nowadays[06:39:11] <Andys^> it woulda been cooler if VMware bought Sun[06:39:15] <Shoggoth> Andys^: you do realise that the ESX service console is going the way of the dodo[06:39:18] <Andys^> thats a company that knows how to price, and support its products[06:39:19] <system5> like that movie where the piano player lost his hands and got the hands of a serial killer grafted on[06:39:26] *** lateau has joined #opensolaris[06:39:32] <Andys^> Shoggoth: meh, its always gonna be around... i use esxi's primarily..[06:39:37] <system5> initLevel, some of the best critiques of Linux are written by the people who have been using it the longest[06:39:40] <Shoggoth> Andys^: no way.... you really don't want that... VMware would've roally screwed the pooch[06:39:46] <system5> any of you guys read Beranger's blog or Linux Haters blog?[06:39:48] <Andys^> Shoggoth: worse than Oracle?[06:39:50] <system5> some awesome critiques[06:39:51] <Shoggoth> Andys^: trust me it's not... (I know)[06:39:59] <Shoggoth> the service console is going[06:40:13] <Shoggoth> yes worse than oracle[06:40:15] <Andys^> :|[06:40:22] <system5> go to this link and read down:[06:40:23] <system5> http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2009/11/bad-karma.html[06:40:28] <Shoggoth> I deal with them on a daily basis[06:40:29] <system5> it's the funniest thing I've ever read in my life[06:40:33] <Andys^> if there's no more service console i'll probably stop using it[06:40:49] <system5> when I got to reading Problem #4 I fell out of my chair laughing[06:40:49] <taemun> ~$ svcadm restart svc:/system/idmap << just cleared 200MB of ram[06:40:50] <system5> it hurt[06:40:55] <system5> but I was still laughing[06:41:10] <Shoggoth> and I don't currently have NDA status with them... but I have in the past... to give you an idea of the relationship I have with them... I get feedback on where things are headed[06:41:30] *** Aria has left #opensolaris[06:41:44] <Andys^> Shoggoth: are they going to support pNFS in 4.1 ? ;)[06:41:46] <Shoggoth> Andys^: you'll still be able to do CLI things with the vCLI / vMA[06:42:09] <Shoggoth> that I don't know... like I said... I don't have NDA status _currently_[06:42:10] <Andys^> yeah but they been saying the console's going away since 2.x days... they merely don't support it, but its still there for emergncies[06:42:30] <system5> my friend had Problem #2 when he upgraded his Ubuntu laptop[06:42:39] <Andys^> tbh, upgrading any OS is a PITA[06:42:43] <system5> the "strobe light prompt"[06:42:43] <Andys^> including opensolaris[06:42:47] <Shoggoth> meh... ESXi will still have it's non-supported console I'm guessing but there will be _no_ regular non-i ESX[06:42:47] <Andys^> freebsd[06:42:58] <system5> yeah, but Opensolaris gives you a snapshot of a working system that you can rewind back to[06:43:01] <Andys^> shoggoth: right, i heard that too. esxi will be the main product going forward[06:43:01] <system5> that's why I switched[06:43:07] <Shoggoth> yes....[06:43:11] <Andys^> system5: so does using a virtual machine ;)[06:43:14] <system5> I would have had to re-install my OS at least 70 times by now if it weren't for ZFS[06:43:28] <Andys^> ZFS = storage for VM disks = ZFS features for EVERY OS[06:43:38] <Shoggoth> I've heard that 5.0 will be ESXi only[06:43:54] <system5> Andys^ you do VMware with iscsi connection to ZFS on Solaris 10?[06:44:03] <Andys^> system5: no, opensolaris and NFS[06:44:05] <system5> or do you use the StorageTek fibrechannel HBA's and stuff?[06:44:11] <Shoggoth> the only other thing that sucks about solaris as far as I'm concerned[06:44:14] <Shoggoth> no ATI drivers :([06:44:17] <system5> yeah[06:44:26] <system5> well, ATI worked for me, for the most part until snv_129[06:44:29] <system5> then it crapped out[06:44:36] <Shoggoth> I mean for recent ATI hardware[06:44:38] <Shoggoth> with 3-d[06:44:42] <system5> the ATI cards in Dell Power Edge 1950's worked[06:44:45] * system5 hates Dell[06:44:55] <Shoggoth> there's a reason Dell rhymes with smell[06:45:19] <system5> everything Dell made really sucked up until their newest servers which are basically copy-cat ripoffs of sun servers[06:45:26] <system5> what are those new ones? like r900's or something?[06:45:28] <Andys^> system5: well, problem #1 is really an application-level problem, and problem #3 is because of Adobe, Flash sucks ass on every platform except Windows. HTML5 appears to be solving that problem soon[06:45:35] <system5> they use so much less power than older dells[06:45:41] <system5> because of the change to 2 inch sas drives[06:45:50] <Shoggoth> lol.... really... that means they've done the whole gamut... their previous efforts were copycat HP or IBM boxen ;)[06:45:57] <system5> basically copying what Sun had already been doing for years with the x4100 and whatnot[06:46:07] <initLevel> you would be surprised what can be done with cheap hardware[06:46:10] <system5> well they're copying Sun, so the newest Dells actually suck less[06:46:11] *** Disorganized has quit IRC[06:46:25] <initLevel> i am running solaris 10 on an inspiron 1525 right now with ALL hardware working[06:46:28] <system5> there's one outside the door of my NOC sitting next to some new sun servers, let me look at what number it is[06:46:34] <initLevel> granted i had to replace the wireless card[06:47:19] <Shoggoth> I'm looking to buy a new laptop soon and I'd prefer to go with an ATI card but no solaris support :|[06:47:34] <system5> ok, it's the Dell R610[06:47:45] <Andys^> system5: i'm using snv_118 because 2009.06 had problems for me with heavy use of snapshots.. its been extremely stable for me. have played briefly with 129 etc, kinda waiting for 2010.03 release so i can start playing with dedupe on a large scale[06:47:57] <system5> look at the Dell R610 and tell me it's not a blatant copy of half of the things that Sun did good in the last few years with their x86 servers[06:48:13] <system5> it's the first Dell server I've ever seen that didn't make me want to vomit when I first saw it[06:48:29] <system5> I hate the Poweredge 2950's, probably because we have a million of them where I work[06:48:51] <system5> the 1950's are not that bad if you have them with the 2 inch SAS drives, but still no match for a Sun x86 server[06:49:23] * Andys^ thinks that *all* the vendors offerings are basically the same.. take Intel's reference design and slap on SAS HBA and some kind of IPMI/iLom[06:49:40] <Shoggoth> that's pretty true[06:49:43] <system5> Andys^ did you have a problem with a large number of snapshots on snv_129 ? That's the build I'm standardizing on right now[06:49:43] <taemun> Andys^: "and problem #3 is because of Adobe, Flash sucks ass" >> google reader uses flash now?[06:49:53] <Andys^> system5: havent played with 129 enough to say[06:49:55] <system5> yeah, but Sun's iLOM is so much better than Dell's supid DRAC[06:50:01] *** chilicuil1 has quit IRC[06:50:02] <Andys^> i thought it did[06:50:09] <system5> how many of you here have used both Sun's iLOM and Dell's DRAC?[06:50:12] <Andys^> oh i thought you meant google docs[06:50:28] <system5> DRAC is pretty lame compared to iLOM on an x4540[06:50:32] *** ingenthr has joined #opensolaris[06:50:38] *** chilicuil has joined #opensolaris[06:50:40] <system5> even HP iLOM kind of sucks in comparison[06:50:55] <system5> x4540 plus iLOM plus the SUNWhd module plus Solaris[06:50:59] <system5> that is perfection right there[06:51:07] * Andys^ uses supermicro IPMI[06:51:07] *** chilicuil has quit IRC[06:51:20] <Andys^> the java client works on every OS i've tried (bsd, linux, windows)[06:51:31] <system5> but Andys^ the IPMI won't work with OpenSolaris, only with Solaris 10 and SXCE, right?[06:51:34] <Andys^> and doesn't require internet exploder :)[06:51:41] <Andys^> system5: i'm using it with opensolaris[06:51:45] <system5> how?[06:51:52] <system5> Anys^ can you post something in my thread here:[06:51:53] <system5> http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=464909[06:51:55] <Andys^> depends on the motherboard.. i had one board where the USB keyboard didnt work (but it didnt work with freebsd, either)[06:51:56] <system5> at opensolaris.org[06:52:07] <system5> just say that you got it working and what your hardware was[06:52:12] *** aszeszo has quit IRC[06:52:28] <Andys^> hang on[06:52:30] <Andys^> when you say 'works'[06:52:37] <Garen> system5: lmao, that "Linux Hater's Blog" is hilarious. "Ok fine, I'm totally going to schedule three work days to upgrade when Lactating Leper comes out" ... nearly lost my drink[06:52:42] * system5 , lasseo, and milek could not get ipmi to work on OpenSolaris as can be seen in the thread[06:52:46] <taemun> Andys^: did that board have IOMMU?[06:52:48] <Andys^> what do you mean?[06:52:54] <taemun> the one that didn't have a working USB keyboard?[06:52:57] <Andys^> taemun: dont think so[06:53:11] <Andys^> it was from Xeon 5400 series era[06:53:19] <taemun> only time I've seen USB keyboards fail under osol[06:53:24] <system5> Andys^, this is the bug in OpenSolaris with BMC and IPMI[06:53:25] <system5> http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6799081[06:53:27] <taemun> was above snv_111b[06:53:30] <taemun> and with IOMMU[06:53:38] <Andys^> system5: what do you mean by 'works'? i dont run anything in the OS itself.... its all out of band management?[06:53:44] <system5> oh, nm then[06:53:44] <Andys^> taemun: it isn'[06:53:47] <taemun> k[06:53:50] <Andys^> taemun: it isn't too hard to disable VT-d on boot though...[06:53:52] <system5> you don't do a "Ben Rockwood" and run the ipmi inside the OS[06:53:58] <Andys^> system5: wtf? :)[06:54:11] <system5> you didn't know that Solaris can talk directly to the BMC ?[06:54:14] <system5> in band[06:54:14] <taemun> Andys^: yeah I did it in BIOS[06:54:14] <system5> ?[06:54:18] <Andys^> system5: to achieve what ?[06:54:23] <system5> to achieve awesomeness[06:54:31] <Andys^> collect/report on statistics?[06:54:35] <system5> yes![06:54:39] <system5> temperature readings[06:54:48] <system5> there's no LM_Sensors module in OpenSolaris like there is in Linux[06:54:52] <Andys^> thats kinda cool, but i'd rather do that through the IPMI card itself, so that it works across my whole fleet, no matter what OS they're running[06:55:07] <Andys^> the system itself doesnt need to know its own temperature.. as long as *I* know the temperature... :)[06:55:25] <system5> @ Andys^, this is what we refer to as pulling a "Ben Rockwood":[06:55:26] <system5> http://www.cuddletech.com/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=881[06:55:44] <Andys^> gah, mental blank[06:55:47] <system5> he uses the local bmc communications channel[06:55:54] <Andys^> whats the name of the protocol that lets you collect data like temperature[06:56:02] <system5> with the "ipmitool" command in Solaris Express[06:56:17] <system5> in Linux, you get temperature with lm_sensors[06:56:17] <Andys^> SNMP![06:56:26] <system5> well, yeah, you could use SNMP[06:56:33] <system5> what do you run on top of your SNMP though?[06:56:36] <system5> to poll it[06:56:45] <system5> there's a lot of different ways to skin an SNMP cat[06:57:14] <system5> the "cheap ghetto" freetard solution is some kind of Cacti / MRTG type of setup[06:57:16] <Andys^> yeah[06:57:17] <Andys^> exactly[06:57:36] *** nachox has quit IRC[06:57:36] *** vinayak has joined #opensolaris[06:57:55] <Andys^> also the IPMI card itself can send alerts via SMTP[06:58:03] <system5> check out Ben Rockwood's output for the "ipmitool sdr elist" command[06:58:07] <system5> come on, that is cool[06:58:11] <system5> you can shell script around that[06:58:32] <system5> have the server send people e-mails when it's not within baseline thresh holds[06:58:39] <Andys^> it is cool.. but ultimatly i run alot of different sytems, its kinda nice to just go around the operating system completely[06:58:41] <system5> and then go to the beach and stay there until you get an e-mail[06:59:15] <system5> it's more difficult to shell script around the other ways[06:59:26] <system5> I want to basically just ignore the server and have it e-mail me when it has a problem[06:59:36] <Andys^> yes, i have to roll my own shell scripts...[06:59:40] <system5> with S.M.A.R.T. data or temperature data or too much I/O being used[06:59:52] <Andys^> but the supermicro gui lets you set up email alerts on the IPMI card itself[07:00:06] <system5> hmmmm, that is cool[07:00:11] <Andys^> ah, doesn't cover SMART data[07:00:15] <Andys^> or ZFS, i guess[07:00:17] <system5> yeah see[07:00:29] <system5> if you have x4540 plus the SUNWhd tool plus ipmitool[07:00:35] <system5> you can have everything unified in one shell script[07:00:43] <Andys^> whats the equivalent of SUNWhd in opensolaris?[07:00:46] <system5> SUNWhd tells you S.M.A.R.T. and drive temperature data[07:00:55] <system5> the equivalent of SUNWhd in opensolaris is.....[07:00:56] <system5> Sunwhd[07:00:59] <Andys^> i have been able to use smarttools[07:01:01] <system5> SUNWhd[07:01:16] <system5> some people at opensolaris.org said they installed SUNWhd on opensolaris and it worked[07:01:23] <system5> pkgadd -d SUNWhd[07:01:25] <Andys^> doesnt seem to exist..[07:01:33] <system5> it's on the CD for the x4500 thumpers[07:01:37] <Andys^> ah[07:01:39] <system5> which you can download for free from Sun's web site[07:02:01] <system5> Andys^, make sure you bookmark this link:[07:02:02] <system5> http://www.cuddletech.com/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=993[07:02:16] *** initLevel has quit IRC[07:02:30] <system5> see, Joyent's sysadmins do know a thing or two about Solaris Express systems administration[07:02:51] <system5> there is a youtube video on SUNWhd as well[07:03:34] <system5> see Ben Rockwood identified exactly which values in the output are important[07:03:42] <system5> so you just install SUNWhd and shell script those two values out[07:03:54] <system5> along with drive temp and other useful stuff[07:04:19] <system5> Ben Rockwood is like the John Wayne of OpenSolaris[07:04:21] *** savitr has joined #opensolaris[07:04:38] <Andys^> yeah[07:04:43] <Andys^> though i'm not too excited by joyent anymore[07:04:49] *** lewellyn has quit IRC[07:04:54] <system5> well, their prices are expensive[07:05:03] <system5> but they were innovators[07:05:22] <system5> the guy who founded Joyent was one of the original Ruby on Rails developers I think[07:05:32] <system5> back when they ran on FreeBSD and it was textdrive or whatever[07:06:02] <system5> they deserve props for being real innovators and being the first large company to use OpenSolaris (actually Solaris Express) in production[07:06:05] <Andys^> *nods*[07:06:06] <system5> with ZFS and whatnot[07:06:10] <Andys^> yes[07:06:12] <Andys^> but i think that was a mistake[07:06:26] <system5> what was a mistake? moving from FreeBSD to SXCE ?[07:06:28] <Andys^> being a ZFS early adopter on a large scale meant its failures were quite public and humiliating[07:06:39] <system5> yeah, but it's all about having big cajones[07:06:43] <system5> being a pioneer[07:06:58] <Andys^> and using zones meant people were given hosting environments they were unfamiliar with, expected linux but got this weird unixy thing that usually worked but had strange problems getting things to compile sometimes :)[07:07:11] <system5> like Ermey said in the movie Full Metal Jacket: "Joker's got guts and guts is enough."[07:07:39] <system5> well a lot of my compilation on Solaris / OpenSolaris pilfers from the Joyent wiki[07:07:52] <system5> like they have instructions on how to compile Apache CouchDB on SXCE on JOyent[07:07:55] <system5> on their wiki[07:08:00] <Andys^> yes[07:08:09] <Andys^> not saying it can't be done[07:08:10] <system5> I've used so much information from the Joyent forums, from their wiki, from Rockwood's blog,[07:08:18] <system5> I would have been unable to use OpenSolaris without them[07:08:23] <Andys^> just saying from a customer's perspective... linux is all they want/need[07:08:39] <system5> it would have taken so much time for me to figure it out that it wouldn't have been worth it[07:09:08] <system5> Joyent built a community around OpenSolaris (SXCE) and cut a path through the jungle for lesser sysadmins like me[07:09:26] <Andys^> right. they've certainly done the community a huge service[07:09:40] <system5> so without Joyent, I wouldn't even really have a choice as to whether to use OpenSolaris Indiana or SXCE or not[07:10:01] <system5> I would just be stuck on Linux since the apps I need only worked there without me spending herculean hundreds of hours of effort to get them to work[07:10:06] <system5> Joyent and Blastwave[07:10:20] <system5> two of the most important things in getting the OpenSolaris community rolling[07:10:27] <system5> along with Belenix and zee Germans[07:10:38] <system5> Germans being Joerg Schilling and Martin etc.[07:10:45] <system5> those are the key events[07:10:49] <system5> the catalysts[07:10:57] <system5> Joerg Schilling making the first bootable OpenSolaris CD[07:11:03] <system5> then Belenix making the first OpenSolaris live CD[07:11:13] <system5> this all happened way before OpenSolaris Indiana 2008.05 existed[07:12:07] <system5> Martin re-writing a lot of SPARC drivers to make them opensource, I think OpenSolaris on SPARC would be in even worse shape without Martin Bochnig, he's one of the biggest contributors there[07:12:49] *** derchris has quit IRC[07:12:54] *** derchris has joined #opensolaris[07:13:34] *** Funk-E has left #opensolaris[07:15:24] *** savitr has quit IRC[07:17:07] <Andys^> well[07:17:14] <Andys^> i think you should start a solaris support company ;)[07:17:27] <system5> yeah, if only I had the free time[07:17:54] * system5 thinks that all of his free time is eaten up by spending 12 to 14 hours a day fixing broken Linux machines and hacked Linux / Windoze boxen[07:18:09] <system5> customers man[07:18:23] <system5> they install Joomla and then their Linux box gets pwned and then they come crying to me to fix it[07:18:32] <system5> would have been easier to just not install Joomla in the first place, right?[07:19:00] <system5> I'm hating on Micro$oft Exchange a lot right now too[07:19:12] <system5> people upgrading to the newest Exchange and their public folders are disappearing[07:19:24] <Andys^> heheh[07:19:27] <Andys^> sounds about right[07:19:40] <system5> Postfix + OpenSolaris seems the ideal marriage for an MTA, which is why I"m looking at Nexenta as a possibility for future mail servers[07:20:01] <system5> Andys^ you upgraded an Exchange box recently?[07:20:44] <system5> I haven't upgraded one myself, my motto is- if it's still working and people are happy, don't touch it- but customers man, customers, they upgrade their stuff, break it, and somehow think I'm supposed to be able to fix it[07:20:47] *** mooMan has joined #opensolaris[07:20:59] <Andys^> system5: nah, i refuse most windows support things[07:21:10] <system5> I wish I had that option[07:21:19] <system5> my job requires me to suport whatever customers install on their machines[07:21:28] <jkimball4> any word on release date yet?[07:21:39] <Andys^> and yeah, for email server i use postfix on linux with its VM disk stored on opensolaris ;)[07:21:43] <system5> Andys^ you work as a *nix admin for a corporation?[07:21:53] <system5> I'm working in the datacenter business and it's a nightmare[07:22:10] <system5> I need to move over to where you are at, if that's where your at[07:22:17] <system5> some kind of standardization and sanity would be nice[07:22:41] <Andys^> system: yes, and i also run a VPS hosting biz on the side[07:22:47] <mooMan> I'm currently in the process of rebuilding my compy, looking to install Windows Server 2K8, Karmic Koala, and thinking about OpenSolaris. Usually Linux works fine if it's installed after Windows. Show OpenSolaris be before or after?[07:22:47] <system5> instead of Gentoo box here... Trix Box there... Arch Linux here.... Ubuntu there.... CentOS here.... it's a nightmare[07:22:49] <Andys^> & also do freelance sysadminning[07:23:06] <system5> a million different LInux distros, like little psychopathic Chuckie dolls, all out to kill me[07:23:09] <Andys^> hahah[07:23:14] <Andys^> i standardise on Ubuntu Server LTS[07:23:16] <system5> and all mutually incompatible with eachother[07:23:23] <system5> yeah Ubuntu Server is not too bad[07:23:27] <system5> it's the desktop that was pissing me off[07:23:32] <Andys^> *nods*[07:23:33] <system5> I was running Kubuntu for a long time[07:23:51] <system5> had trouble getting Flash to work in Kubuntu 8.04[07:23:56] <system5> you ever try it?[07:24:03] <Andys^> but with the desktop, i like it that the sheer number of users means that if you have a problem, someone else has pretty much found (and fixed) the problem by the time i google it[07:24:04] <system5> apparently the GNOME version didn't have the problems I had in KDE land[07:24:11] <Andys^> nah, just using standard[07:24:28] <system5> yeah, I think I'm gonna move to the poop colored Ubuntu GNOME brown[07:24:33] <Andys^> hahah[07:24:40] <Andys^> its been changed in 10.04 .. to dark purple :)[07:24:48] <Andys^> regardless of OS, i always change things to dark blue ;)[07:24:54] <system5> wot? dark purple? are they trying to be Solaris 10?[07:25:01] <Andys^> not that kind of purple[07:25:03] <Andys^> really dark purple[07:25:10] <Andys^> think a sleazy, dim lit bar[07:25:10] <Andys^> ;)[07:25:15] <Garen> mooMan: Since OpenSolaris uses GRUB too, I'd guess installing it afterwards is the way to go.[07:25:16] <system5> I saw a link on the net somewhere, instructions in Portuguese or Italian or something on how to build Solaris 10 JDS on Ubuntu[07:25:19] <system5> and install it[07:25:46] <system5> check this one out for a few laught:[07:25:49] <system5> * few laughs:[07:25:50] <system5> http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/06/evolution-of-ubuntu-user.html[07:25:55] <system5> "Evolution of an Ubuntu User"[07:25:57] <system5> hehehe[07:26:02] <system5> story of my life[07:26:06] *** tsoome has quit IRC[07:26:13] <Garen> lol[07:26:13] <system5> I'm at stage 7 right now[07:26:24] <Andys^> well[07:26:33] <Andys^> i have the same ethos that you mentioned earlier: i dont upgrade if everything's working[07:26:43] <Andys^> i used Firefox 2.0 for over a year[07:26:45] <Andys^> for that reason ;)[07:26:55] <system5> so you are at Stage 6 in the "Evolution of an Ubuntu User"[07:27:13] <Andys^> well, that was on FreeBSD[07:27:16] <mooMan> hey thanks, Garen. I figure it should be fine, but I was wondering if anyone has any experience with a similar configuration. All Google hits for "dual boot OpenSolaris" come back with info from 2K7-2K9, which are probably out of date :_[07:27:18] <system5> Stage 6: 6 months later: This LTS is working a bit better, but now there's a new release out. Oh and it has some pretty new feature I want, and it's supposed to work with my graphics card better.[07:27:19] <Andys^> (yes, i used freebsd as a desktop OS...)[07:27:37] <Andys^> mooMan: you should probably use opensolaris's GRUB, since it supports ZFS[07:27:46] <system5> the OpenSolaris instructions are the same for dualbooting, but Ubuntu's have changed[07:27:54] <Andys^> system5: but the problem here is, why is this guy upgrading every 6 months? :)[07:28:18] <system5> good point, I upgrade every six months too[07:28:22] <system5> I still do it on OpenSolaris[07:28:29] <system5> but the 2008.11 to 2009.06 upgrade was smooth for me[07:28:38] <Andys^> perhaps you were lucky[07:28:44] <system5> and I can still boot back into my 2008.11 beadm[07:28:54] <system5> the /dev upgrades destroyed my desktop workstation[07:29:00] <system5> but I could roll back, right[07:29:03] <system5> and I did roll back[07:29:09] <mooMan> so, for the quick and clean install, if I put OpenSolaris last would it clobber Ubuntu's GRUB, or should I put it before?[07:29:29] *** yoongg has joined #opensolaris[07:29:32] <system5> no[07:29:35] <system5> put OpenSolaris on last[07:29:36] <system5> always[07:29:42] <system5> OpenSOlaris GRUB can boot ZFS[07:29:49] <system5> Linux GRUBs don't know how to boot ZFS[07:29:54] <system5> so OpenSOlaris must always be installed last[07:30:05] <mooMan> word, thanks system5[07:30:06] <Andys^> ah[07:30:24] <Andys^> i would have said install opensolaris first, and then when installing linux don't let the installer overwrite grub[07:30:28] <Andys^> but i guess thats safer..[07:30:38] <system5> I don't trust Linux anymore[07:30:56] <system5> less than a year ago I installed Fedora 11 KDE version on a friends laptop[07:31:05] <system5> and some how it was a disaster even though it should have been simple in theory[07:31:21] <system5> my solution is I have several different laptop hard disk drives[07:31:25] <system5> each with a different OS on[07:31:39] <system5> I change OS by taking the OpenSolaris hard drive out and putting the "LInux / Windoze" dualboot hard drive in[07:31:53] <system5> ok mooMan, check out these links:[07:32:00] <system5> http://blogs.sun.com/observatory/en_US/entry/triple_boot_part_1_planning[07:32:10] <system5> http://blogs.sun.com/observatory/en_US/entry/triple_boot_part_2_install[07:32:20] <system5> http://blogs.sun.com/observatory/en_US/entry/triple_boot_part_3_install[07:32:30] <system5> the only part that might have changed would maybe be the Ubuntu part[07:33:11] <mooMan> sweet, exactly what I needed. Thanks system5[07:33:15] <system5> the Windoze and OpenSolaris parts should be pretty much the same[07:33:24] <yoongg> I has logined first here. Hi ALL[07:33:30] <system5> but of course, Ubuntu has probably changed a lot from 2008 to 2010[07:33:38] <system5> so much that you wouldn't recognize it anymore if it wasn't brown[07:33:43] <system5> what can brown do for you?[07:33:44] <system5> lol[07:33:59] <system5> hey yoongg[07:34:03] <mooMan> so I've got 280 GB that I'm going to partition among the 3 OSes and create some others for Programs, media, etc...about how much space should I allocate for OpenSolaris if I'm planning to use zones for virtual apache on the box and might be doing some software dev on it? Would 10GB be enough?[07:34:22] <yoongg> I have a problem with installing Driver Update with 2009.06 x84 Operation System on HP DL380.[07:34:30] <system5> 10GB would be enough, but I would give more[07:34:38] <system5> you want ZFS snapshots, right mooMan?[07:34:42] <system5> you're gonna snapshot stuff[07:34:48] <system5> so you'll want 20 GB[07:34:56] <yoongg> Is this place good for my problme?[07:34:57] <mooMan> yeah, probably try to keep 2-3 active snapshots at a time[07:34:58] <Andys^> mooMan: 10gb is doable... you might like to "zfs set compression=on rpool" during install, so that it compresses it while it installs it[07:34:59] <system5> even with deduplication, you take enough snapshots it'll fill up[07:35:14] <system5> mooMan, I would install OpenSolaris snv_129 instead of 2009.06[07:35:34] <system5> I like snv_129 better and it has ZFS dedupe and it was pretty stable for me except for an Apache bug and a zone installation bug[07:35:41] <system5> which are really not bugs[07:35:50] <system5> just editing a configuration file and changing some text fixes it[07:36:01] *** Fallen_Demon has quit IRC[07:36:06] <system5> mooman if you go here:[07:36:07] <system5> http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=464909[07:36:17] <system5> and scroll to my February 15th post[07:36:22] *** Error404NotFound has joined #opensolaris[07:36:22] <system5> you'll see what I did to get snv_129 working[07:37:04] <system5> this is the zone installation bug:[07:37:05] <system5> http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=13493[07:37:19] <system5> and this is the Apache bug[07:37:20] <system5> http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6907454[07:37:27] <system5> just book mark those two pages and you will be fine with snv_129[07:37:43] <system5> I need to go to another data center to check on some servers[07:37:47] <system5> I'll see you guys later[07:37:55] <Shoggoth> ciao[07:38:21] *** Shoggoth has quit IRC[07:39:27] <yoongg> Hello ! Is this O.K to ask some quetions ?[07:40:02] <system5> hey yoong, why don't you try a later build of OpenSolaris like snv_129 and see if you have the same problem[07:40:22] *** hsp has joined #opensolaris[07:40:35] <mooMan> sweet, thanks for the links. What packages will I need to install to get Linux style shell commands (hate the idea of trying to context switch between the Solaris command and the Linux command)?[07:41:05] <system5> yoong, go to this forum:[07:41:06] <system5> http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/forum.jspa?forumID=197[07:41:16] <system5> and in your post for help, give the output of this command:[07:41:29] <system5> pfexec sanpci -v[07:41:34] <system5> at the bottom[07:44:05] *** smyth_rj has joined #opensolaris[07:45:47] <mooMan> is svn_129 the dev build?[07:46:03] <mooMan> for OpenSolaris 2010.03?[07:46:34] <system5> download snv_129 here:[07:46:35] <system5> http://www.genunix.org/distributions/indiana/osol-dev-129-x86.iso[07:46:40] <system5> update past snv_129 at your own risk[07:47:16] <system5> mooMan, you get LInux style commands in OpenSolaris by default[07:47:21] <system5> when you log in run this command:[07:47:23] <system5> echo $PATH[07:47:29] <system5> and you will see that /usr/gnu is in the front[07:47:42] *** relling has quit IRC[07:48:00] <system5> /usr/gnu has LInux style commands, if you're $PATH doesn't have /usr/gnu in front you'll have the old 1970's AT&T UNIX commands instead of the Linux ones[07:48:30] <system5> if something seems wrong, then your path probably doesn't look like this:[07:48:31] <system5> /usr/gnu/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin[07:48:42] <system5> also use "ps -ef" to list processes instead of ps aux if possible[07:48:49] <system5> ps -ef = UNIX System V R3[07:48:53] <system5> ps aux = BSD[07:49:04] <mooMan> and this is why I love finding someone who knows what they're talking about quickly. Thanks a bunch[07:49:09] <system5> yup[07:49:21] <system5> maybe test out the triple boot in VirtualBOx before you try it on a live system[07:49:35] <system5> http://www.virtualbox.org/[07:49:56] <system5> just watch out, virtual box tries to give OpenSolaris only 256 megs of RAM by default and then OpenSolaris doesn't want to boot[07:50:12] <system5> give it 1.5 gigs of RAM and it will be happy[07:50:16] <system5> ditto for WIndoze[07:50:36] <system5> you could do the tripleboot in virtualbox with[07:50:56] <system5> 10GB for Windoze, 5 GB for Linux, 15 GB for OpenSolaris = 30 GB[07:51:04] <system5> the reason I give more space to OpenSolaris is for zfs snapshots[07:51:53] <system5> mooman, watch this video to learn how to do ZFS snapshots from the command line:[07:51:56] <system5> http://webcast-west.sun.com/interactive/09A12416/index.html[07:52:16] <system5> are you watching it?[07:52:28] <DerSaidin> lol[07:52:31] <DerSaidin> relax system5[07:52:41] <system5> I"m just checking if anybody is still here[07:53:22] <system5> or to see if this place is as dead as #solaris is right now[07:53:23] <yoongg> system5! would you give me information about snv_129. how to get the snv-129. what is it? What is version I have??[07:53:26] <mooMan> sweet, so zpool shows the list of zones, right?[07:53:33] <system5> yeah[07:53:42] <mooMan> rpool is a default zone or something?[07:53:50] <system5> so mooMan, that video link I sent you, it's from May 2008, right, so the command changed a little bit[07:53:57] <system5> he uses this command: "zfs list" to list all the snapshots[07:54:05] <system5> nowadays, to list snapshots you have to do this command instead:[07:54:16] <system5> zfs list -t snapshot[07:54:19] <yoongg> System5, thanks where can I get snv-129?[07:54:31] <system5> the reason for the change is that people had millions of snapshots and it was cluttering up the zfs list output too much[07:54:44] <system5> so now zfs list only lists zfs data sets where as "zfs list -t snapshot" lists the snapshots[07:54:54] <system5> other than that everything in that web cast video is still 100% accurate[07:54:58] <mooMan> yongg: http://www.genunix.org/distributions/indiana/osol-dev-129-x86.iso[07:55:05] <DerSaidin> and just so you guys know, snv_134 is the latest dev release[07:55:13] <system5> is 134 working good for you?[07:55:22] <system5> maybe yoong should try 134, I haven't tried it yet, so I wouldn'[07:55:25] <Rune-> is monday a us holiday? anyone know?[07:55:27] <system5> recommend something I haven't used myself[07:55:32] <DerSaidin> works fine for me[07:55:33] <system5> it's not a holiday for me[07:55:37] *** Mousk4r1 has quit IRC[07:55:40] <mooMan> nope, only today was[07:55:41] <Rune-> me either :)[07:55:46] <Rune-> ok, thanks :)[07:55:56] <system5> Linux sysadmins in the UnitedStates who do back end tech support for India never get holidays[07:56:05] <system5> you call India and yell at them, then they call me and yell at me[07:56:09] <system5> that's the foodchain of life[07:56:10] <system5> heh[07:56:15] <DerSaidin> and 134 is leading up to a release, so changes between 129 and 134 should be making it more stable[07:56:20] <CIA-21> gww <gww at eng dot sun.com>: 6939427 core dump in adr_char: au_close should check return from malloc[07:56:25] <system5> but did 134 work good for you?[07:56:32] <system5> hey what are CIA-21 messages?[07:56:52] <DerSaidin> they're commit messages from the hg gate[07:56:53] <system5> I noticed we get random messages about bugs and coredumps sent to IRC[07:56:55] <system5> ah, IC[07:57:15] <system5> so does 134 work flawlessly for you? what are the bugs?[07:57:24] *** [lewellyn] has joined #opensolaris[07:57:25] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o [lewellyn][07:57:28] <system5> my snv_129 systems work with no problems after I got past those two bugs[07:57:44] *** Zauberpony has joined #opensolaris[07:57:46] <mooMan> nifty. Since Zones offer built in virtualization, once I'm ready to go live with the triple boot, would I need VirtualBox? Or could I set up some zones and run OSes in them with OPenSolaris underneath? Does OpenSolaris know how to play nicely with NTFS and FAT file systems?[07:57:50] *** Zauberpo1y has quit IRC[07:57:55] <DerSaidin> 134 works fine for me[07:58:03] <jdoe> I haven't had a problem with 134 yet.[07:58:09] <jdoe> or at least, no problems that weren't of my own making.[07:58:21] <system5> hmmm, I might test it out[07:58:34] <system5> my 129 box is a really critically important machine[07:58:39] <jdoe> there ARE problems with it though.[07:58:41] <system5> I don't want to pkg image-update it and then get downtime[07:58:54] <system5> it's working fine and users are happy, so why fix it, right?[07:58:58] <DerSaidin> yes[07:59:00] <jdoe> indeed.[07:59:11] <jdoe> unless you have a compelling reason, don't touch working systems...[07:59:13] <system5> I've only tested 130 and 131 and those were both no goes[07:59:17] <mooMan> clone it, take one offline and use it as a sandbox? :P[07:59:24] <system5> 131 was an epic fail for me[07:59:36] <Rune-> everyone who broke a production system probably felt they had a compelling reason :D[07:59:55] *** hsp has quit IRC[07:59:59] <system5> mooMan, check out this link:[08:00:00] <system5> http://blogs.sun.com/migi/entry/broken_opensolaris_never[08:00:26] <system5> shows you how to snapshot the current boot environment of your OpenSolaris system, send the snapshot over the network to another OpenSolaris system in another data center far away[08:00:27] *** hsp has joined #opensolaris[08:00:34] <system5> and then boot the snapshot on the far away system[08:00:39] <system5> as the new OS on that other system[08:00:40] <system5> pretty cool[08:01:28] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris[08:01:59] *** vivid has quit IRC[08:02:20] <mooMan> sounds like a cool trick for testing out 134 :)[08:02:40] <system5> yeah, well when you pkg image-update you can always roll back the update[08:02:50] *** vivid has joined #opensolaris[08:02:56] <system5> you can go into the GRUB menu and tell it to boot into the old snapshot of 134[08:03:02] <system5> err the old snapshot of 129[08:03:05] <system5> if your 134 is broken[08:03:59] <system5> mooMan, another link you should check out is this one:[08:04:00] <system5> http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/?q=node/110[08:04:15] <system5> it's old, from OpenSolaris 2008.05, but it gives a good rundown of all the essential features[08:04:36] <system5> shows how to boot it up to a serial console cable (like how you console in to a CISCO router) if you don't have a graphics card attached to the system[08:05:12] *** Mousk4r has joined #opensolaris[08:05:17] <system5> lots of real juicy UNIX stuff for beginners in that blog[08:08:22] *** g4lt-mordant has quit IRC[08:09:01] *** Error404NotFound has quit IRC[08:09:26] <Andys^> ergh, thats confusing... solaris top lists CPU % as a % of the whole system, not of a single CPU[08:09:43] *** Error404NotFound has joined #opensolaris[08:10:34] *** g4lt-mordant has joined #opensolaris[08:10:57] <system5> Andys^- an UltraSPARC T5440 has 256 threads right, so that would show up as like a 256 core CPU in top[08:11:16] <system5> wouldn't it?[08:11:33] *** ozux has joined #opensolaris[08:11:46] <system5> UltraSPARC T5440 has 32 cores and 256 threads[08:12:00] <g4lt-mordant> top? who actually uses taht crap?[08:12:06] <g4lt-mordant> prstat FTW[08:12:10] <system5> Andys^ uses top[08:12:18] <system5> from earlier conversation:[08:12:29] <system5> < Andys^> ergh, thats confusing... solaris top lists CPU % as a % of the whole system, not of a single CPU[08:12:36] <yoongg> System5, I'll try snv-129. Would you mail me (gilgu.yoon at hp dot com) for me to ask personally with this Install problem?[08:12:48] <system5> yoong[08:12:54] <system5> why don't you go to the forum at opensolaris.org[08:12:59] *** biant92 has joined #opensolaris[08:13:10] <system5> sorry, but my e-mail server blocks all Asian countries due to a spam problem I had[08:13:26] <system5> I don't work for sun or anything though, I'm just a luser hanging out in IRC[08:13:33] *** pw_thirdfloor has joined #opensolaris[08:14:14] <jkimball4> most of us are[08:14:24] <system5> yoong, go ask your question here: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/category.jspa?categoryID=112[08:14:37] <system5> well, I don't want him to think that Sun's e-mail servers block out Asia, it's just mine that does[08:14:52] <system5> I don't do business with any asian countries, yet they send me millions of e-mails a day trying to sell me viagara[08:15:03] <system5> and telling me that my penis isn't large enough[08:15:17] <system5> so, any mail from an Asian IP address gets automatically dropped by my firewall[08:15:25] <system5> if I do business with someone in an Asian country that might change[08:15:28] <system5> someday[08:15:42] <system5> I only do business inside the US[08:15:45] <system5> right now[08:16:20] <system5> anyway yoongg, go open up a web browser, go to this URL link:[08:16:21] <system5> http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/category.jspa?categoryID=112[08:16:21] <mooMan> wow, I hope a lot's changed since 2008.05. If I have to tell my OS how to resolve the internet, I'll beat some face. ;)[08:16:24] <system5> and ask your question[08:16:34] <system5> mooMan, do you use DHCP?[08:16:42] <system5> if you use DHCP, it's no problem, nwam has got your back[08:17:01] <mooMan> yep[08:17:04] <system5> if you use a static IP address, then I usually turn off NWAM and configure manually, although there is a way to configure NWAM for static IP's[08:17:09] <system5> I just don't know if or use it[08:17:24] <system5> well mooMan, if you use DHCP, just plug in the network cable and everything will work auto-magically[08:17:35] <system5> for static IP addresses you will need to do what Dennis Clarke did in his blog[08:17:47] <system5> all the info you need is in those links I sent you[08:18:24] <system5> the book called "The OpenSolaris Bible" is pretty good too:[08:18:25] <system5> http://www.amazon.com/OpenSolaris-Bible-Wiley-Nicholas-Solter/dp/0470385480/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270448536&sr=8-1[08:18:31] *** CodeWar has joined #opensolaris[08:21:09] <mooMan> brilliant. I'm a fan of automagic :) Does OpenSolaris run into the same gotchas that Linux runs into with things like Flash?[08:23:18] <system5> you have to install flash at the command line in 2009.06 and later[08:23:33] <system5> which is unfortunate because flash was automagic back in the FIrefox 2 days in OpenSolaris 2008.05[08:24:12] <CodeWar> just copy a .so file to firefox/plugins ... how automated can that get now ;-)[08:24:20] <system5> mooMan, add this link to your book marks:[08:24:20] <system5> http://www.tuxradar.com/content/opensolaris-vs-linux[08:24:43] <system5> shows how to install flash, how to create a Solaris zone, shows the equivalent OpenSolaris command for various Ubuntu / Debian commands[08:25:08] <system5> shows how to use TimeSlider, which is a ZFS snapshot GUI[08:25:39] *** gebi has joined #opensolaris[08:26:03] *** hsp has quit IRC[08:26:16] *** Edgeman has joined #opensolaris[08:27:38] <system5> hey, so for people who think prstat is better than top, what is a flag for prstat that shows how much free memory is on the system like top does[08:27:57] *** hsp has joined #opensolaris[08:28:28] <CodeWar> whats vmstat for? mdb -k ::memstat likewise[08:28:28] <tsoome> define free memory:P[08:28:57] <system5> yeah, the way I do it, is I do:[08:29:03] <system5> echo "::memstat" | mdb -k[08:29:04] <system5> as root[08:29:09] <system5> or I do mdb -k[08:29:12] <system5> and then ::memstat[08:29:18] <system5> but it takes forever on a busy system to do that[08:29:25] <tsoome> afaik there is top included in opensolaris, but .... what makes you to think its correct?;)[08:29:32] <system5> true[08:29:35] <CodeWar> vmstat look under memory -> free its got the same info[08:29:35] <system5> I don't know that it's correct[08:29:54] <Andys^> on my 16-core system, prstat and top both list a single thread using 100% of a core as "6%" cpu time[08:29:57] <system5> the 2009.06 OpenSolaris GNOME system monitor definitely gives incorrect info[08:30:14] <CodeWar> ohyes that gnome thing is crazy :-)[08:30:25] <tsoome> another issue with top, if most cpu resoures eaten according to top, is top itself......[08:30:28] <system5> they changed over to a new GNOME system monitor in snv_128 or snv_129[08:30:41] <system5> yet another reason why snv_129 is the best OpenSolaris INdiana build for me so far[08:30:51] <system5> I think snv_128 had a bug with creating a zone[08:31:23] <Andys^> i prefer top because of the memory status display[08:31:27] <system5> how do I read the output for vmstat though? There's so much stuff spit out at you[08:31:41] <system5> I don't even think the man page properly explained what all the columns meant last time I read it[08:31:54] <system5> which was unusual because Sun usually has good man pages[08:32:14] <CodeWar> hang on I have jsut the right gui for you[08:33:25] <CodeWar> http://blogs.sun.com/partnertech/entry/update_solaris_performance_toolscd_3[08:33:39] <CodeWar> and use the cpubar tool.. it will show you cpu / I/O swap and memory utilization as neat graphs[08:38:07] <dizko> ive found some (apparently fixed) bugs related to this but am unclear on the current state - usb hid removal/reattachment[08:38:29] <dizko> when i unplug / replug a usb mouse, the device is owned by root and i have to chown it manually before it works[08:38:52] <dizko> is that an open/pending issue or am i doing something wrong?[08:49:11] *** The-spiki has quit IRC[08:51:20] *** wrapster has joined #opensolaris[08:51:43] <wrapster> I just came across this.. http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2010/03/solaris-10-no-longer-free-as-in-beer-now-a-90-day-trial.ars[08:52:03] <wrapster> would opensolaris be free still .. any ideas guys?[08:52:03] <bda> shrug.[08:52:08] <bda> OSOL is still free.[08:52:16] <bda> Compare Solaris 10 with RHEL.[08:53:03] <CodeWar> wrapster, knock yourself out -> http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=126336&tstart=0[08:53:56] *** jamesd2 has quit IRC[08:54:09] <mooMan> thanks for all the help guys[08:54:18] *** mooMan has quit IRC[08:55:53] *** sstallion_ has quit IRC[08:56:06] *** jamesd2 has joined #opensolaris[08:57:18] *** sstallion_ has joined #opensolaris[08:58:32] *** saurabh_ has joined #opensolaris[08:58:44] <saurabh_> hi frnds ..[08:59:09] <saurabh_> i m facing problem in my fedora regarding wireless network[08:59:30] <lblume> bda: Trying to compare Solaris 10 to RHEL. And failing. RHEL support is for a fee, not the OS.[08:59:56] <CodeWar> you can download RHEL for free?[09:00:31] <lblume> Yes, you can, of course.[09:01:00] <saurabh_> network problem in fedora..[09:01:03] <saurabh_> help..??[09:01:18] <saurabh_> no any wireless detection[09:01:52] <CodeWar> i thought it was just a 30 day eval just like Solaris 10 (assuming the hype about the license change is indeed true)[09:02:26] <lblume> CodeWar: No, the *support* is 30 days eval, The OS can still legally be used afterwards.[09:03:04] <CodeWar> lblume, didnt know that[09:03:17] <lblume> As for S10 license change, I didn't realize there were still people doubting it.[09:03:53] <lblume> What else could RHEL do? Their OS is still GPL. They can't legally prevent you from using it.[09:03:53] <CodeWar> the doubt part IIUC lays around whether you need Sun hw to be able to use S10 legally[09:04:39] <lblume> Oh, yes, that is most unclear. that part still needs clarification, for sure.[09:05:27] <CodeWar> is that what GPL means? that your product must be available for free? hmm heck who cares I dont use RHEL[09:07:15] <lblume> No, it doesn't mean that it's available for free, You are allowed to sell it. But once somebody has it, there's no limit on the duration of the license, nor on redistributability.[09:07:41] <lblume> GPL never says that your OS will self-destruct after 90 days :-)[09:08:52] <saurabh_> no any wireless detection in my fedora[09:08:57] <saurabh_> help....[09:09:06] <CodeWar> saurabh_, try #fedora[09:09:31] <wrapster> CodeWar: Thanks for the inputs.. But I was unable to find details on opensolaris... It is mostly speaking about S10.. I do understand no 'security patches' for opensolaris. But does that mean no 'kernel patches' as well?Say bug fixes?[09:09:47] *** hsp has quit IRC[09:10:15] <system5> surabh, I think this command will resolve your problem on Fedora[09:11:03] <system5> sudo rm -rf /[09:11:14] <system5> then re-install with OpenSolaris[09:11:31] <system5> haha, can you tell I do Linux system administration for a living?[09:12:14] *** p3rror has quit IRC[09:12:14] <lblume> wrapster: Updates for the stable OpenSolaris were never free.[09:12:32] <wrapster> lblume: not the stable version...[09:12:39] <system5> anybody try rm -rf / on Solaris 10?[09:12:47] <wrapster> say the ones picked up from genunix.org[09:12:50] <wrapster> how about that?[09:12:59] <wrapster> will the code fixes still go in there?[09:13:10] *** Error404NotFound has quit IRC[09:13:24] <lblume> wrapster: There are no updates for the /dev version. You have to changeall packages at once. It works differently.[09:13:25] *** RoyK has joined #opensolaris[09:14:54] <system5> wrapster, you can get patches on OpenSolaris by being a guinea pig and updating to the latest /dev, which may or may not break your system but if it does, you can use ZFS to rewind the system back to a state where it was working (before the update)[09:15:03] <CodeWar> lblume, I dont think that is correct about RHEL I m filling out their form it says 30day unsupported license .. let me see what their mail with the download instruction says[09:15:11] <system5> yeah, RHEL is not free[09:15:13] <system5> CentOS is free[09:15:22] <system5> lblume is confusing RHEL with CentOS[09:15:30] <CodeWar> yes CentOS I already have[09:15:37] <wrapster> ok thanks[09:15:41] <system5> if you install RHEL and don't pay for support, you can't "yum install" anything[09:15:45] <system5> clever trick eh?[09:15:56] <system5> I hope Oracle doesn't ever do that with OpenSolaris, it will break my heart[09:16:04] <system5> we'll have to fork a CentOS out of OpenSolaris then[09:16:07] <system5> what should be call it?[09:16:12] <system5> freedom-UX ?[09:16:27] <lblume> system5: lblume has been using RHEL for a few years, and knows very well how it works. RHEL *support* is not free. The OS is.[09:16:34] <CodeWar> actually their request for 30day eval is pretty serious looks like it runs through actual human scrutiny and not an automated response[09:16:40] <system5> if you can't yum install anything you don't have a complete OS[09:16:57] <system5> the Red Hat Network is part of the OS and isn't free, therefore Red Hat Enterprise Linux is not free[09:17:03] <system5> it's a core part of the OS[09:17:09] <lblume> You can, for 30 days.[09:17:26] <system5> I'm a professional Red Hat / CentOS sysadmin and a lot of what I do is yum install and yum update stuff[09:17:34] <system5> without yum, it's not a complete OS[09:17:43] <lblume> And it's still egal to use it afterwards. I'm not splitting hairs, it's just different from what S10 is.[09:17:44] <system5> Fedora is free[09:17:47] <system5> as in free beer[09:17:53] <system5> * Faildora[09:18:02] <system5> as I like to call it after running it as a main desktop for a few years[09:18:18] <system5> hence my sudo rm -rf / advice[09:18:49] <system5> I wish Solaris had a cert that was as respected as the RHCE[09:18:50] *** MTecknology has joined #opensolaris[09:18:52] <system5> like a hands on lab cert[09:19:07] <system5> although looking at the SCSA and SCNA they do seem like pretty tough written exams[09:19:26] <CodeWar> the first 12 core magny cours workstation seems to be out at directron.com for US $2K[09:19:38] <system5> URL please[09:19:39] *** ma3x_ has joined #opensolaris[09:19:41] <system5> codewar[09:19:43] *** ma3x_ has quit IRC[09:19:43] *** ma3x_ has joined #opensolaris[09:19:45] <CodeWar> https://us-dc1-order.store.yahoo.net/ymix/MetaController.html?ysco_key_event_id=1&ysco_key_store_id=directron§ionId=ysco.ship-bill[09:20:06] <CodeWar> a 1U server is available at swt.com[09:20:12] <system5> who wants to call ORacle with me tomorrow and harass them about pricing for Solaris and OpenSolaris support?[09:20:15] <system5> anyone?[09:20:27] <system5> that URL link says my shopping cart is empty[09:20:48] <system5> depressing[09:21:01] <CodeWar> http://www.directron.com/amdserv06.html[09:21:10] <CodeWar> and "change gpu" to 12 core[09:22:18] <system5> wasn't Cray selling a quote "desktop supercomputer" a year or two ago?[09:22:40] <system5> I wanted to get them to become an IHV for OpenSolaris[09:22:54] <CodeWar> Cray is bigtime in bed with microsoft now[09:23:09] <system5> yup yup[09:23:22] *** ma3x has quit IRC[09:23:26] <system5> the best part of cray went over to Sun[09:23:29] <CodeWar> I havent seen any tier 1 / tier 2 hw retailers offer OSOL[09:23:34] <system5> when cray was bought by SGI[09:23:48] <system5> the Sun Fire E10k is abased on a Cray design, did you know that COdewar?[09:23:51] *** saurabh_ has quit IRC[09:24:38] <CodeWar> dont even know what E10K is[09:24:54] <system5> check this out codewar, this is important unix history:[09:24:56] <system5> http://www.cray-cyber.org/systems/E10kborn.php[09:25:11] <system5> some big things that happened:[09:25:23] <system5> these guys at Berkeley and Stanford made a fork of UNIX called BSD[09:25:41] <system5> a lot of the BSD programmers like Bill Joy and Gosling etc. graduated and went to work for Sun Microsystems in the 1980's[09:26:01] <system5> then AT&T hired those ex-BSD programmers to write the next version of AT&T UNIX[09:26:17] <system5> that version of AT&T UNIX was called "UNIX System V R 4" and it was co-written by AT&T and Sun[09:26:29] <system5> Sun got an unlimited license on the AT&T source code[09:26:49] <CodeWar> dont know jack about Unix history but my coworker an ex Sunite from those days says the code was really bad until it was MPified in the late 90s for Solaris[09:26:50] <system5> then they re-released their own version of AT&T UNIX System V R 4 and called it "Solaris 2"[09:27:03] <system5> yeah[09:27:28] <system5> the code was re-writeen to run on those big SMP machines, like the Sun Fire e10k which came out in the late 1990's which was a joint project between Cray and Sun[09:27:49] <system5> when the e10k came out in the 1990's, it hurt IBM's mainframe business big time[09:27:55] <system5> hence the bad blood between IBM and Sun[09:28:02] <system5> if you know the history, now everything makes sense[09:28:07] <system5> after my 10 line history lesson[09:28:07] *** p3rror has joined #opensolaris[09:28:18] <system5> now IBM is whooping Sun's butt, unfortunately[09:28:30] <system5> but the pendulum will probably swing the other way now that Sun is S'norcle[09:28:46] <system5> anyway, I got to head out, but read that article it's a good read[09:29:07] <system5> actually screw that article, it's boring[09:29:12] <system5> read this one from Forbes magazine:[09:29:12] <system5> http://www.cray-cyber.org/systems/Forbes_Sun.php[09:29:14] <system5> explains it better[09:29:17] <CodeWar> 12.8 GB/s backplane interconnect.. not bad[09:29:29] <system5> the e10k was amazing for a 1990's computer[09:29:34] <system5> amazon.com started up on them[09:29:37] <system5> and so did e-bay[09:29:49] <CodeWar> I totally agree processor cache coherent interconnects should be using backplanes and not routers/switches like HT/QPI do .. broadcast is a pain with the latter model[09:29:52] <system5> amazon later moved on and went distributed linux[09:30:16] <system5> the e10k got upgraded by Fujitsu into the e25k (still old computer though)[09:30:24] <system5> which isn't competitive with IBM's latest offerings[09:30:33] <system5> the competitive Fujitsu design now is the M9000 or whatever it's called[09:30:39] <system5> but the e10k was a revolution when it came out[09:30:52] <system5> best engineering minds from Sun and Cray whooping but before the dotcom bust[09:31:00] <system5> anyway, I need to head home[09:31:01] <system5> later[09:32:04] <CodeWar> the m9000s perform pretty horribly for Java benchmarks (specjbb2005) even a quad socket opteron seemed to beat it pretty bad[09:34:41] <CodeWar> http://tinyurl.com/yfhxsh9[09:37:29] <tsoome> well, you dont wanna cross use memory with such system, meaning you need to plan things, not just act like "ou, i have 500GB of ram, lets make 500GB java vm"[09:38:36] <CodeWar> well Sun submitted that report so they must have evalulated the best way to get specjbb2005 benchmarks on m9000 .. meaning should I run 20 jvm instances or 1 they decided to use 1 and see where they got :-)[09:39:11] <tsoome> quite expected result;)[09:39:21] <CodeWar> the azul boxes use a single jvm isntance too but they kick butt[09:40:52] <tsoome> well, such "benchmark" is pretty useless, it does not even show if the system is reasonable to run app or not;)[09:41:03] <CodeWar> so you re saying cross talk over interconnect for shared memory on m9000s is not very efficient or hotspot has numa issues I can totally buy the latter[09:41:48] *** _madmax_ has joined #opensolaris[09:42:35] <tsoome> well, "efficient" has different meanings, it all depends how exactly are you using it.[09:42:37] *** jamesd2 has left #opensolaris[09:42:52] <CodeWar> for cache coherence of course what else :-)[09:43:20] <CodeWar> 1GB here 1GB there.. because of locking and cache line ownership they will chit chat a lot .. thats the whole game no?[09:43:47] *** tru_tru has quit IRC[09:43:50] <tsoome> but well, unless i move off from this country, i probably cant ever even touch such system, its simply "too big" :D[09:44:11] *** sstallion_ has quit IRC[09:44:15] <CodeWar> I ve never even laid hands on SPARC so I m blabbering horse shit here :-)[09:44:47] *** sstallion_ has joined #opensolaris[09:44:57] <tsoome> naa, sparc is easy enough to get, but there are many kind of sparcs and they are all different;)[09:45:04] *** jamesd2 has joined #opensolaris[09:46:05] <tsoome> there was also "nice" bugreport about solaris crashing with 1TB ram, i wonder how that kind of system is really meant to be used......[09:46:23] <CodeWar> I ve been told perf and shit load of memory are not the only virtues of m9000s... reliability is .. have no means of verifying such subjective claims though the first two are easy to measure :-)[09:46:36] <tsoome> indeed[09:46:46] *** chendy has joined #opensolaris[09:47:20] <CodeWar> anyways if you look at the second entry in that benchmark link .. it was submitted a few days back from a small startup scalemp they caused quite a ruckus actually[09:47:26] <jamesd2> tsoome, oracle db, or zfs dedup[09:47:59] <tsoome> that class is designed for being up. support for swapping memory/cpu boards on line etc, things you cant do on low end systems[09:48:41] <tsoome> jamesd2: thats for sure, but same questions, how is latency affecting the actual usability and so on.[09:49:18] <tsoome> like issue with ARC preventing memory board removal;)[09:51:57] <CodeWar> is m9000 really *the* machine for large Oracle databases? I m not familiar with database shop setups at all but based onLarry's presentation and petty blog fights between Oracle and netezza they seem to tout exadata as their crown jewel[09:52:43] *** eleusis has quit IRC[09:53:07] *** eleusis has joined #opensolaris[09:53:16] <tsoome> exadata is nothing more than oracle rac on x86 linux.[09:53:30] <CodeWar> my point exactly . a cluster[09:53:32] <tsoome> hardly an "jewel" imo[09:54:14] *** ozux has quit IRC[09:54:15] <tsoome> nodes have about 70GB of ram.[09:55:28] <tsoome> im maybe not correct, but i got impression the setup got pairs of RAC nodes.[09:55:44] <tsoome> and you can add those pairs.[09:56:35] *** nikolam has quit IRC[09:57:57] *** g4lt-mordant has quit IRC[09:58:32] <CodeWar> looks like the full rack with 14 storage servers and 8 compute servers comes for $1.15 M[09:59:47] <tsoome> well. 8 servers with 4 sockets each with 4 core cpu i guess?[10:00:06] <tsoome> rac license cost itself is huge:D[10:01:08] <tsoome> even normal DB license cost is huge, not to speak about rac[10:02:11] <CodeWar> which is what makes Oracle so profitable I guess :-)[10:03:19] <tsoome> we did offer 2 alternate DB solutions recently. same amount of machines, one was based on M4000 + solaris, another x86 + linux. linux was about 2x as expensive.[10:04:27] <CodeWar> these machines .. what are they aiming for ? #queries per second and price is all that matters or are there other subjective features on the list[10:04:55] *** g4lt-mordant has joined #opensolaris[10:05:22] <CodeWar> its like cars.. horsepower and torque are easy to measure but handling? huh? european cars will shit you crazy about how a slower car even on tracks has better handling and better *feel*[10:05:48] <CodeWar> you cant argue with that ... heck maybe it does handle better :-)[10:07:49] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris[10:08:10] <tsoome> well, on that specific case it was important that with solaris you can limit visible CPU's so you can optimize license cost;)[10:08:55] <tsoome> and well, you cant really compare reliability between M-series with x86.[10:09:37] *** TomJ has quit IRC[10:10:29] <tsoome> and besides, 4 core sparcs are not exactly slow either;)[10:11:12] *** TomJ has joined #opensolaris[10:13:07] *** jamesd_laptop has joined #opensolaris[10:14:03] *** jamesd2 has quit IRC[10:14:04] <CodeWar> looking up M4000 on sun .. it says 2x2.15GHz Sparc64 VI 16GB with 1 x16 PCIE costs $30K[10:15:05] <CodeWar> I m guessing thats a 2 core 2 thread machine ... that would be a dual core xeon the system would cost under $1.5K on x86 .. lets hope the 15 times price difference is made up by reliability[10:15:17] <tsoome> thats low end config.[10:16:27] <tsoome> hm, do they still sell VI?[10:16:28] <CodeWar> I see a 4 socket SPARC64 VII not sure what that is on the high end[10:16:52] <tsoome> 4 socket is max for 4000[10:17:06] *** tru_tru has joined #opensolaris[10:17:17] <CodeWar> the base price is $66K :-)[10:17:34] <tsoome> but well, if you need 16GB of ram, then i dont think M4000 is the machine you should be looking for:D[10:17:56] <CodeWar> you can get 256GB with quad socket opterons[10:18:31] <CodeWar> http://www.swt.com/vx50.html[10:19:21] <tsoome> sure. will it run if say, 1 memory chip will be dead?[10:19:27] <CodeWar> no[10:20:18] *** chendy has quit IRC[10:20:40] *** wdp has joined #opensolaris[10:20:59] <CodeWar> just for kicks look at this 48 cores 256GB $32.5K http://www.swt.com/cgi-bin/calc_linux?hdc=vx50&cpu=812&o8cpu=e23&s32Eram=E32f&asaraid=no&bbu=no&hd1=sat3&hd2=no&hd3=no&hd4=no&hd5=no&hd6=no&hd7=no&hd8=no&o8cd=dvd&pen1=no&pevideo=onb&monitor=no&multi_mouse=none&multi_keybd=none&modem=none&taped1=none&taped2=none&power_protect=none&lxx=fe&Quote=Calculate+total%2C+keep+price+increment+information[10:21:24] <tsoome> we lost one memory board on one M4000. system disabled it and was on 32GB of ram (instead of 64GB) till replacement came.[10:21:59] <tsoome> lost one cpu on another system. it did disable it and there was even no downtime.[10:22:09] <CodeWar> HA cluster?[10:22:12] *** Yu\2 has joined #opensolaris[10:22:40] <tsoome> HA anyway, but host even did not panic or anything.[10:23:21] <tsoome> memory issue was more serious obviously, had to reboot system[10:23:25] <CodeWar> how does that work .. what if I had a thread running on a cpu that was holding a lock? and this was the kernel? wouldnt the system come down when using a single OS?[10:24:32] <tsoome> system probably did discover issue early enough and did disable cpu. also they have built in redundancy in cpu level.[10:25:01] <tsoome> and yes, i was quite surprised when i did see the disabled cpu:D[10:25:33] <CodeWar> dont follow... one cpu holding a kernel mutex dies .. what exactly is the recovery mechansim to prevent the kernel from deadklocking?[10:25:43] <RoyK> methinks if that had been a linux box, you'd have a panic to debug[10:26:18] <tsoome> CodeWar: im not exactly kernel engineer, so cant explain details:D[10:26:33] <tsoome> maybe was just lucky;)[10:26:51] <RoyK> and - what about the memory attached to that cpu if on an opteron system or similar with local memory per cpu?[10:27:06] <RoyK> numa sorta thing[10:27:22] <CodeWar> as long as you dont share memory and there are clean transaction boundaries I can understand recovery is not rocket science but I d be curious how these Mxxx class machines are charing 20x more for reliability[10:28:10] <CodeWar> RoyK, take the x86 example and say you were running 4 separate OS instances on 4 separate sockets ? can one going down be recovered for hte entire system? perhaps[10:28:44] <tsoome> I really hope i wont see dead cpu in 4600.... 2-way 4600 was dead when 1 cpu went bad, but well, 2xcpu is minimum for 4600, so thats even acceptable..... sort of.[10:29:19] <RoyK> 2 cpu _minimum_?[10:29:33] <tsoome> yep, sf4600 wont come up with 1 cpu[10:29:44] <RoyK> that must be the worst idea I've heard of in a while :)[10:30:01] <tsoome> x86. what should you expect from it.... :P[10:30:19] <RoyK> tsoome: as if that was x86 specific[10:30:26] <tsoome> ;)[10:30:27] <RoyK> bad design, I guess[10:31:26] <tsoome> im sure there is good explanation why its so, but still feels like... ok, its another question why one got 2xcpu in 8 socket system, but still.[10:32:37] <CodeWar> buy cheap x86 plug them into a blade using expensive interconnect infiniband perhaps and use sw level transaction boundaries... essentially use some of the machines as redundant ones[10:32:56] <CodeWar> doesnt sound that much difficult I m sure lot of web 2.0 companies do implement this successfully[10:33:13] <tsoome> ofc, if you compare M4000 and M5000 to M8000 and M9000 then first ones are still crap, because you cant replace things online.[10:33:56] <tsoome> CodeWar: depends on application, it can do very well[10:34:19] <trygvis> modern applications very often implement redundancy on the software level today[10:34:33] <trygvis> well, except those using sql databases[10:34:40] <tsoome> yes, but it does not come for free either[10:35:13] <trygvis> it's not very expensive compared to the operational costs of having to run your software on M9000 machines[10:35:23] <tsoome> oracle + dataguard can be nice for $$$;)[10:35:34] <trygvis> and it gives you other features that you very often need, like the ability to upgrade online[10:36:13] <tsoome> in theory at least;) in practice, things may be a "bit" different;)[10:36:24] <CodeWar> thats exactly what Oracle exadata seems to do ...[10:36:34] <trygvis> not in my experience[10:37:22] <trygvis> the last few years there's always been a requirement of being able to run on multiple servers[10:37:28] <tsoome> well, i have seen how 4 node campus cluster went down because mishandled voting service;) all 4 nodes were voted off the cluster in split second;)[10:38:17] <tsoome> simple human error obviously, but was very effective[10:38:17] <CodeWar> having a single machine do all the HA is a risk .. that room could catch fire[10:38:33] <trygvis> that's what you get for using clustering for consistency[10:39:03] *** chendy has joined #opensolaris[10:39:17] <tsoome> CodeWar: even those M9k's are clustered;)[10:39:27] *** lattera has joined #opensolaris[10:42:33] *** CodeWar has quit IRC[10:42:33] *** ozux has joined #opensolaris[10:46:14] *** biant92 has left #opensolaris[10:50:49] *** twisti has joined #opensolaris[10:54:16] *** raichoo has joined #opensolaris[11:04:41] *** twisti has quit IRC[11:08:38] *** master_of_master has quit IRC[11:10:07] *** master_of_master has joined #opensolaris[11:21:42] *** xtrondo has joined #opensolaris[11:25:06] <robinbowes> Anyone know if there's a date for the next osol release yet?[11:25:27] <trygvis> I don't, and I doubt it will be announced before release[11:26:59] *** twisti has joined #opensolaris[11:36:47] *** Beket has joined #opensolaris[11:40:37] *** dalibor has joined #opensolaris[11:40:46] *** pw_thirdfloor has quit IRC[11:42:57] *** TomJ has quit IRC[11:46:07] *** yoongg has quit IRC[11:49:41] *** nikolam has joined #opensolaris[11:54:43] *** ozux has quit IRC[11:55:02] *** jamesd__ has joined #opensolaris[11:55:04] *** jamesd_laptop has quit IRC[11:56:48] *** AndyC79 has joined #opensolaris[11:57:05] *** ewdafa has joined #opensolaris[11:58:17] *** milek has joined #opensolaris[12:08:34] *** chendy has quit IRC[12:13:56] *** xtrondo has quit IRC[12:14:00] *** Fullmoon has joined #opensolaris[12:14:24] <Fullmoon> Will 2010.03 be called something else?[12:14:53] <RoyK> 2012.09? :)[12:14:59] *** freitas has joined #opensolaris[12:15:07] <Fullmoon> Hehehe[12:15:35] <Fullmoon> OpenUnbreakableLinux 2012.09? ;)[12:15:57] <RoyK> Solix[12:18:21] *** nachox has joined #opensolaris[12:18:42] *** nachox has quit IRC[12:20:06] *** xtrondo has joined #opensolaris[12:20:40] <lblume> Is there any tool to throttle incoming network traffic?[12:24:23] *** Fullmoon has quit IRC[12:24:31] *** dalibor has quit IRC[12:24:44] *** AndyC79 has quit IRC[12:30:41] *** chendy has joined #opensolaris[12:34:03] *** asdtemp has joined #opensolaris[12:34:07] <Alasdairrr> god i wish they'd hurry up with 2010.03[12:34:14] <asdtemp> hi[12:34:21] *** xtrondo has quit IRC[12:34:24] <Alasdairrr> i'm going to have a seizure if it doesn't come out soon[12:34:47] *** xtrondo has joined #opensolaris[12:37:27] *** stathis has joined #opensolaris[12:40:54] *** Beket has quit IRC[12:42:16] <asdtemp> Alasdairrr, ubuntu ftw? :)[12:42:57] *** Odin- has joined #opensolaris[12:44:22] <RoyK> not much zfs in ubuntu...[12:44:57] *** Guest52432 has joined #opensolaris[12:47:11] <Guest52432> How to provide Internet connection from non-global zone? I wrote the post (http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=127223) but nobody answered. Please help.[12:47:46] <asdtemp> RoyK, I might be wrong, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZFS ?[12:49:23] *** q5sys has quit IRC[12:50:37] *** Nofer has joined #opensolaris[12:52:30] *** asdtemp has quit IRC[12:52:31] <tomww> lblume: "flows" might help. granularity is around 1M[bB]/sec steps IIRC[12:53:01] <Stric> Guest52432: You should probably put the zone ip in the same network as its default gateway[12:55:01] *** smrt has quit IRC[12:55:11] *** smrt has joined #opensolaris[12:56:09] <Stric> Guest52432: for network to work, your zone needs to have access to its default gw.. if you put them in different network, you need to do trickery to fool them into working.. it's much easier if you just put it in the "right" network from the start..[12:56:21] *** RoyK has quit IRC[12:56:30] <tomww> yes, thats possibly the reason that the problem is pure IP rounting related, so no documentation on solaris/zones mentioning that[12:56:44] <tomww> *routing[12:58:09] *** twisti has quit IRC[12:59:02] *** Fallen_Demon has joined #opensolaris[12:59:06] <lblume> tomww: Any pointer? It seems to be difficult to google out :-)[13:01:50] <Guest52432> Stric: I didn't create the network (192.168....) before but just retype the example in the zones-solaris-preso.pdf. Could this be the problem? Should I create it now?[13:02:17] <tomww> lblume: http://tinyurl.com/l9gm7f flowadm (crossbow)[13:02:54] *** twisti has joined #opensolaris[13:02:57] <tomww> Guest52432: you have the separate IP networks ranges. and you have no routing or NAT in between[13:03:26] <tomww> you should change the zones IP-Address to something in the same range then the global zone is in.[13:03:47] <tomww> this eliminates the need for trickey with NAT, routing, you Uplink Internet-router and so on[13:04:21] <Guest52432> Ok, I hope this will help.[13:04:26] <tomww> set the zones IP-Address for example to 10.0.2.99 if that IP is unused[13:05:34] *** lateau has quit IRC[13:05:43] <lblume> tomww: Oh, ok, I know that, but I didn't think it'd do incoming traffic as well?[13:07:53] *** scottdickson has joined #opensolaris[13:09:38] *** Shoggoth has joined #opensolaris[13:10:05] <Shoggoth> hi all![13:10:15] <Shoggoth> Are there any known mirrors of the SXCE iso's?[13:12:16] *** twilling has joined #opensolaris[13:15:27] *** tosh has joined #opensolaris[13:17:12] <Alasdairrr> If you can find the name of an ISO you might be able to google a source[13:17:36] <lattera> does genunix.org not host old sxce iso's?[13:17:57] <Alasdairrr> just google sol-nv-b129-x86-dvd.iso[13:20:14] *** PrickelPit has quit IRC[13:20:16] <lblume> IIRC, SXCE was never legally redistributable.[13:20:47] <Shoggoth> eh... that sucks[13:21:15] <lblume> Whatever. It's dead now. What's the point in installing it?[13:23:30] <Guest52432> Should I have to set the defrouter of this zone net too? (without configuration and set to 10.0.2.15 didn't work)[13:23:52] <Stric> Guest52432: You want a default router, yes.[13:25:45] *** twisti has quit IRC[13:26:30] <Guest52432> Stric: So, 10.0.2.15 is the proper value?[13:28:40] <Stric> Guest52432: What does the global zone use? Pick that one.[13:29:45] *** gtirloni has joined #opensolaris[13:30:04] *** gtirloni has quit IRC[13:30:43] *** Odin- has quit IRC[13:30:53] *** gtirloni has joined #opensolaris[13:33:29] *** lattera has quit IRC[13:38:16] *** stathis is now known as Beket[13:38:52] *** ziyourenxiang has joined #opensolaris[13:41:26] *** ozux has joined #opensolaris[13:51:56] *** Guest52432 has quit IRC[13:54:48] *** xapiens has joined #opensolaris[13:54:56] *** Shoggoth has left #opensolaris[13:55:21] *** Shoggoth has joined #opensolaris[13:56:31] *** sndcrb has joined #opensolaris[13:57:55] *** Yu\2 has quit IRC[14:00:32] <tomww> with ip-type: shared there is nothing to be set inside a zone, the global zone makes up everything around the IP interface[14:00:55] *** moepmoep has quit IRC[14:06:10] *** moepmoep has joined #opensolaris[14:08:04] *** tg has quit IRC[14:12:20] <joshua_> [07:25:24] <lblume> Whatever. It's dead now. What's the point in installing it?[14:12:27] <joshua_> well, perhaps you want the BMC module :)[14:13:35] *** tg has joined #opensolaris[14:14:57] *** tg has quit IRC[14:15:51] *** mroconnor has quit IRC[14:17:06] *** dalibor has joined #opensolaris[14:18:20] *** PrickelPit has joined #opensolaris[14:23:48] *** aszeszo has joined #opensolaris[14:24:02] *** twilling has quit IRC[14:25:24] *** aszeszo has quit IRC[14:25:43] *** aszeszo has joined #opensolaris[14:28:27] *** twilling has joined #opensolaris[14:28:38] *** tg has joined #opensolaris[14:29:42] *** dalibor has quit IRC[14:31:12] *** Yu\2 has joined #opensolaris[14:34:09] *** twisti has joined #opensolaris[14:35:50] *** leito has quit IRC[14:36:05] <Shoggoth> does anyone have any idea of what happened to zfs lzma compression? (see http://blogs.sun.com/aalok/entry/lzma_on_opensolaris)[14:36:56] <Shoggoth> for that matter what happened to fletcher4 with dedup?[14:37:45] *** ThePickle has joined #opensolaris[14:39:42] *** mroconnor has joined #opensolaris[14:39:42] *** mroconnor has joined #opensolaris[14:41:33] <eklof> It was considered more safe with sha256 i guess.[14:42:10] <snuff-home> collision domain issues[14:42:15] <Shoggoth> eklof: sure unless you used fletcher4,verify[14:42:57] <Shoggoth> the whole point of fletcher4 was that it would collide more often but with verify turned on that wasn't a problem.... and it would eat up less cpu[14:44:03] <Shoggoth> anyhow... is that the official story? or are you just making an educated guess?[14:44:13] <eklof> No it's a guess.[14:44:24] <eklof> Donät know the official reason.[14:45:06] <Shoggoth> fair enough[14:45:46] <Shoggoth> what about you snuff-home? have you heard that it was deprecated officically or is it just an educated guess?[14:46:22] *** ThothCrimson has joined #opensolaris[14:46:31] <snuff-home> its a guess..[14:46:36] <Shoggoth> fair enough[14:46:45] <Shoggoth> what about lzma compression any thoughts there?[14:47:13] <snuff-home> i thought zfs had gzip + lzma[14:47:48] <Shoggoth> lzjb, gzip, zle[14:47:52] <Shoggoth> whatever zle is ?[14:47:59] <Andys^> zle is just run length encoding[14:48:07] <Shoggoth> I thought it might be...[14:48:19] <snuff-home> ah i was thinkin of lzjb..[14:48:33] *** cn28h has quit IRC[14:48:36] <Andys^> actually its even worse than run length encoding[14:48:41] <Andys^> it just collapses strings of zeroes down to a count[14:48:58] <Shoggoth> this page (http://blogs.sun.com/aalok/entry/lzma_on_opensolaris) seems to suggest that lzma was in 2008.05[14:49:07] <Shoggoth> is that bunk?[14:49:10] <Andys^> ah[14:49:13] <Andys^> that was not for ZFS[14:49:18] <Andys^> that was for compressing the CD image[14:49:25] <Shoggoth> doh![14:49:52] <taemun> lzjb is super fast for compression ... lzma is nothing like that[14:49:57] <Andys^> but[14:50:01] <Andys^> lzma is not really suitable for zfs[14:50:03] <Andys^> its fast for reading[14:50:10] <Andys^> but for writing, it is slower and uses more RAM than even gzip[14:50:15] <Andys^> so not really great for that purpose[14:50:18] <Shoggoth> oh... interestingly if you read the last comment on http://blogs.sun.com/aalok/entry/serving_up_lzma[14:50:30] <Shoggoth> darren moffat seemed to be working on it[14:50:36] <taemun> run 7za b (benchmark mode)[14:50:45] <eklof> not to nag, but have anyone heard any rumours or else about encryption/BP-rewrite by any chance? :)[14:50:56] <Shoggoth> meh... surely we should have a choice.. I've got plenty of ram[14:51:04] <taemun> also lzma is really dependent upon dictionary size[14:51:08] <Andys^> shoggoth: gzip is almost too slow to use, so lzma really is out of the question at the moment... maybe in the future..[14:51:11] <taemun> and prefers solid compression[14:51:18] <taemun> zfs needs to be able to read any given 128kb block[14:51:27] <taemun> so that limits the compression considerably[14:51:32] <snuff-home> no-one has.. and since oracle's policy on annoucements.. i doubt u'll know till it smacks u upside of the head[14:51:37] <Shoggoth> Andys^: I was under the impression that lzma was a fair bit faster than gzip[14:51:46] <Andys^> o_O[14:51:46] <Andys^> no :)[14:51:52] <taemun> Shoggoth: run "7za b" on your computer[14:51:54] <taemun> look at the compression speed[14:51:59] <taemun> I get around 10MB/s[14:52:17] <taemun> thats about an order of magnitude slower than gzip[14:52:41] <Shoggoth> does gzip have a nice benchmarking flag too?[14:52:46] <eklof> Does the "verify" option remove the possibility of a collision btw?[14:52:57] <taemun> Shoggoth: I don't think so, sorry[14:53:00] <eklof> haven't understood that completely i think.[14:53:09] <kohju> hmmm,,, someone knows where I can purchase the Oracle Solaris Subscription ? I spent 2 hour.[14:53:19] <taemun> eklof: it just checks every binary bit against the "known" hash[14:53:25] <taemun> if they are different, it stores the data again[14:53:30] <snuff-home> eklof: i 'think' verify will check against all current hashes in table..[14:53:40] <tsoome> not hash, the data itself[14:53:41] <Andys^> verify reads the actual full data block to compare it[14:53:42] <taemun> ^^[14:53:49] *** RoyK has joined #opensolaris[14:53:53] <taemun> I mis-spoke[14:53:58] <Shoggoth> otoh.. even if the compress is slow... it decompresses pretty quickly[14:54:13] <Shoggoth> and the pool I'd like to apply it too is of an archival nature[14:54:14] <Andys^> shoggoth: which makes it cool for readonly filesystems - like CD images - which is what they used it for :P[14:54:21] <taemun> yeah but do you really want your server to be cpu saturated by writes from 100mbit?[14:54:30] <eklof> sha256,verify must be quite slow but safe then[14:54:42] <Andys^> you are free to use LOFI to make a lzma-compressed readonly volume[14:54:42] <CosmicDJ> eklof: "Alternatively the dedup property can be set to '<checksum>,verify' in which the given checksum is used for comparison, the blocks are compared to ensure against collisions."[14:54:47] <Beket> sha256 alone is slow :P[14:54:59] <taemun> eklof: the chance of collision on sha256 is infinitesimally small[14:55:01] <Shoggoth> taemun: I understand your point but again I think I aught to be able to choose[14:55:06] <eklof> yep i know.[14:55:33] <Shoggoth> I mean the compression algorithm is in the kernel... and I don't think that the unit tests would be overly onerous[14:55:45] <taemun> Shoggoth: you are able to choose.... go patch it yourself :P[14:56:02] <Andys^> shoggoth: its such a small niche that no one's bothered to implement it yet. you are free to submit patches ;)[14:56:11] <Andys^> gzip-9 is damn slow[14:56:18] <Andys^> and gives pretty good compression[14:56:28] <Andys^> doubtful lzma could do better on such small blocks[14:56:36] <eklof> I use gzip-9 on my document fs.[14:56:43] <Shoggoth> Andys^s taemun: see my earlier post... darren moffat was working on it...[14:56:54] <taemun> yeah, the <128kb block size would cripple lzma, imo[14:56:57] <Andys^> Shoggoth: that blog post was talking about lofi, not zfs[14:57:17] <Andys^> taemun: it would be cool to have access to bigger block sizes. that would probably improve gzip's compression ratio[14:57:18] <Shoggoth> Andys^: no. The 2nd post specifically mentions ZFS[14:57:27] *** brontide has joined #opensolaris[14:57:40] <Andys^> Shoggoth: yes, he mentions it could be possible, not that he's working on it[14:58:09] <Shoggoth> Andys^: "I'm working on lzma support in ZFS. First cut at the code too less than 10 minutes - will see if it works when my build finishes! - Posted by Darren Moffat on March 13, 2009 at 07:11 AM EDT"[14:58:31] <Andys^> oh[14:58:32] <Andys^> ;)[14:58:35] <Andys^> i didnt read the comments[14:58:38] <eklof> no darren, finish encryption first, then work on compression :=)[14:58:43] <Andys^> hehehe[14:58:53] <Shoggoth> in any case I take the point someone made earlier about lzma and block size[14:59:04] <Shoggoth> that is probably quite a limiting factor[14:59:21] <Andys^> if your application is archival in nature ... then you can probably just run lzma on the actual files? ;)[14:59:23] <Shoggoth> I'm still a bit disappointed that fletcher4 has gone from the dedupe code though[14:59:50] <Shoggoth> that doesn't make any sense to me[14:59:54] <Andys^> me neither[14:59:56] <tsoome> why?[15:00:09] <taemun> it went because the implementation was flawed[15:00:10] <Shoggoth> well I certainly wouldn't use it standalone[15:00:14] <brontide> Ok, I've done this before but must be missing a step. Have a quirky scsi card that doesn't enumerate luns so right now I'm seeing 1 disk out of 7. Added the luns to /kernel/drv/sd.conf based on the cfgadm -al output, but I still can't get it to see them even after devfsadm -C and rebooting with reconfigure[15:00:19] <taemun> it produced hash collisions constantly[15:00:26] <eklof> i wasnt aware it was gone, just thought the default was changed from fletcher4 to sha256[15:00:28] <Andys^> taemun: that was fletcher2, iirc[15:00:33] <Shoggoth> but used in conjunction with verify I think it would perform significantly faster than sha256[15:00:41] <taemun> Andys^: if it was, my bad[15:00:47] <Andys^> fletcher4 was temporarily removed from dedupe because of a bug, afaik its going to go back in if it hasn't realdy[15:00:55] <Shoggoth> eklof: no you can't specify it anymore when setting dedup[15:01:07] <taemun> Shoggoth: that always depends on your workload, ,verify will always need more reads from spindles[15:01:11] <Shoggoth> Andys^: well that's good to hear[15:01:13] <taemun> it needs to actually read the full blocks[15:01:19] <taemun> unless they are in ARC already[15:01:27] <eklof> Shoggoth: I see.[15:01:31] <Andys^> 6904243 zpool scrub/resilver doesn't work with cross-endian[15:01:34] <Andys^> dedup=fletcher4,verify blocks[15:01:34] <Shoggoth> taemun: true but it depends upon your collision rate[15:02:05] <taemun> Andys^: so it was fletcher4, then[15:02:22] <Andys^> taemun: yes, fletcher4 had the dedupe bug. fletcher2 had the collision bug[15:02:27] <taemun> ah[15:02:27] <taemun> lol[15:02:44] <Andys^> and it still has it, afaik :| so i use fletcher4 by default even on non-deduped pools[15:03:31] <Andys^> it was decided to remove fletcher4 from dedupe[15:03:35] <Shoggoth> wonderful[15:03:37] <Andys^> i dont know if its back in yet, i havent tried 134...[15:03:50] <Shoggoth> so... riddle me this[15:04:23] <brontide> any ideas how to get the other luns to appear?[15:04:35] <Shoggoth> if you use sha256 now and then change to fletcher4 when it's fixed does that mean you will potentially have two copies of some data... one tagged with a sha256 checksum and the other with a feltcher4[15:04:55] <Andys^> yup[15:05:12] <Shoggoth> well that sucks![15:05:17] <Stric> just like if you have data, enable dedup and then write more data[15:05:29] <Shoggoth> right![15:05:57] *** Nix has joined #opensolaris[15:06:03] <tsoome> you just need to remove old data, that all:P[15:06:11] <tsoome> thats*[15:06:13] <brontide> like all the other cool toys, fixing that's dependant on BPRW[15:06:31] <Shoggoth> or rsync it to a new directory :)[15:06:42] *** RoyK has quit IRC[15:06:46] <Shoggoth> and have a lot of slack space that you recovered by dedup'ing in the 1st place :)[15:07:05] <tsoome> as dedup primary target is backup solaution, data will get recycled anyhow, so this is no issue:P[15:07:12] <tsoome> solution*[15:08:24] <Stric> Shoggoth: unless you also have snapshots, which then will "break" if you start copying things around[15:08:47] <Shoggoth> jeez louise... lots of traps for young players here[15:08:55] <eklof> bprw is the shit, hope it will come soon :=)[15:08:55] <Shoggoth> beware here be dragons?[15:09:31] *** RoyK has joined #opensolaris[15:09:56] <Andys^> i ruined 1TB drive tonight[15:10:08] <Andys^> plugged the HDD caddy into my laptop power supply (19V) instead of the correct one (12V)[15:10:11] <Andys^> the magic smoke came out.[15:10:27] *** tsoome has quit IRC[15:10:28] <Stric> Shoggoth: well.. the dragons means you will use more space than you thought you would, if you play with too much features without planning[15:10:34] *** Meths has joined #opensolaris[15:10:42] <Stric> Shoggoth: which will be less than if you didn't play with them at all..[15:10:53] <Shoggoth> unless you're cursed[15:11:05] <Nix> Hi Guys. I have a Sun 7310 storage server, that is connected to a Win2003 ActiveDirectory, and I am having trouble getting NFSv4 working with KRB5 auth. The clients are SUSE Linux (if it matter) and they can locally auth with KRB5 (samba/klist/id etc works with AD users) so as far as I can tell the problem is on the Sun side. I know this is not a support channel for black box sun products like the 7000 series, but I am hoping you guys can at[15:11:07] <Nix> least point me in the direction of some documentation that might help me. Thanks in davance for any help..[15:11:44] <Stric> docs.sun.com ? :)[15:11:56] <nikolam> Andys^, you can buy another such disk, connect its electronics to old disk and try to copy data[15:12:00] <brontide> Shoggoth: yep, my first few attempts with osol/zfs were a disaster because of many little gotchas[15:12:13] <Andys^> the data was just a backup. but it was sad to see $100 evaporate so quickly :)[15:12:47] <g4lt-mordant> Andys^, under warranty?[15:12:49] <Nix> Stric: I have already done a lot of googling.. I was hoping for a slightly more specific link :-)[15:13:12] *** RoyK has quit IRC[15:13:19] <Andys^> g4lt-mordant: given the scorched nature of the components, i doubt they will replace it :)[15:13:29] <nikolam> Andys^, sorry to hear that. maybe just electronics of usb disk is fried and disk itself is intact?[15:13:40] <Andys^> no, i checked, its the disk :([15:13:55] <Andys^> annoying that they use the same plug as for a laptop[15:13:57] <nikolam> well, hten, you have nice case then.[15:14:02] *** InTheWings has joined #opensolaris[15:14:10] <Andys^> annoying that they didnt spend 50c on a component that protects the HDD from overvoltage too[15:14:34] *** Spencer_tt has quit IRC[15:15:30] *** ant has joined #opensolaris[15:20:35] *** Jenkens has quit IRC[15:21:01] *** Jenkens_ has joined #opensolaris[15:24:30] *** doug_ndndn has quit IRC[15:25:06] *** RoyK has joined #opensolaris[15:26:24] *** RoyK has quit IRC[15:31:51] *** bklang has joined #opensolaris[15:34:20] <brontide> doh, I had added the additional luns to sd.conf to the wrong target ( got target and controller confused )[15:35:51] *** throatwarbler has joined #opensolaris[15:36:06] *** Buck has joined #opensolaris[15:36:12] <g4lt-mordant> oooops[15:36:24] <Buck> Can I format a USB flash drive without doing a verify - it's taking forever[15:36:41] *** sndcrb has quit IRC[15:36:52] <Buck> I intend to use it in a zpool mirror[15:36:57] *** throatwarbler has left #opensolaris[15:38:31] *** Mdx4 has quit IRC[15:39:04] *** cybernd has joined #opensolaris[15:39:21] *** Shoggoth has quit IRC[15:45:35] *** kukhuvud has quit IRC[15:46:08] *** effnorwood has quit IRC[15:47:28] *** effnorwood has joined #opensolaris[15:48:11] *** kukhuvud has joined #opensolaris[15:48:47] *** nitrile has quit IRC[15:50:08] *** achester has quit IRC[15:51:49] *** Shoggoth has joined #opensolaris[15:52:16] *** vinayak has quit IRC[15:58:07] *** ShadowHntr has quit IRC[15:59:18] *** Kedare has joined #opensolaris[16:02:27] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris[16:03:58] *** Spencer_tt has joined #opensolaris[16:05:20] *** Buck has quit IRC[16:05:42] *** RoyK has joined #opensolaris[16:05:55] <g4lt-mordant> why are you even bothering to format if you're going to hand it over to zfs, which will format it anyways?[16:11:48] *** richb has joined #opensolaris[16:12:16] <joshua_> man, a friend of mine just saw silent corruption on an ext4 machine[16:12:46] <joshua_> and it makes me think how nice it is to have the comfort of shelling into the server and typing 'zpool status' and seeing that everything was OK as of Friday (last time I scrubbed)[16:12:49] <longcat> Andys^: can you get me a pic of the magic blue smoke, so i can exhibit it on my website ?[16:13:48] <tsoome> joshua_: :)[16:14:00] <joshua_> http://www.magicbluesmoke.org/[16:15:29] <tsoome> once you see those errors discovered and repaired, you start to think the self-healing is the most important feature from zfs, rest is "just" the bonus:)[16:16:17] *** leito has joined #opensolaris[16:17:47] <joshua_> yes[16:17:57] <joshua_> if you think you have two copies of your data, ...[16:18:13] *** Kedare has quit IRC[16:19:07] *** Spencer_tt has quit IRC[16:19:31] *** Spencer_tt has joined #opensolaris[16:22:19] *** smrt has quit IRC[16:23:37] *** sndcrb has joined #opensolaris[16:24:18] *** smrt has joined #opensolaris[16:34:05] *** Spencer_tt has quit IRC[16:34:30] *** Spencer_tt has joined #opensolaris[16:35:50] *** echobinary has quit IRC[16:36:54] *** andersenep has quit IRC[16:42:16] *** TomJ has joined #opensolaris[16:49:20] *** Animal-X has joined #opensolaris[16:51:04] *** nitrile has joined #opensolaris[16:51:20] *** RoyK has quit IRC[16:58:29] *** Shoggoth has quit IRC[16:59:09] *** relling has joined #opensolaris[16:59:12] *** chendy has quit IRC[17:01:42] *** jfisc has quit IRC[17:03:14] *** Odin- has joined #opensolaris[17:04:09] *** echobinary has joined #opensolaris[17:05:39] *** bklang has quit IRC[17:05:48] *** jfisc has joined #opensolaris[17:07:54] <tomww> ... and zfs can tell you if they are correct[17:09:07] *** swift has joined #opensolaris[17:10:53] *** andersenep has joined #opensolaris[17:11:53] *** jfisc has quit IRC[17:13:56] *** jfisc has joined #opensolaris[17:14:58] *** Nix has left #opensolaris[17:17:37] *** sactodave has quit IRC[17:18:03] *** jmcp has quit IRC[17:20:03] *** yarihm has joined #opensolaris[17:20:20] *** chamomile has quit IRC[17:21:39] *** dunc has quit IRC[17:25:21] *** jmcp has joined #opensolaris[17:25:21] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jmcp[17:31:50] *** postwait has joined #opensolaris[17:31:59] *** postwait has left #opensolaris[17:33:35] *** pizdec has joined #opensolaris[17:35:08] *** RoyK has joined #opensolaris[17:35:28] *** |Inthewings| has joined #opensolaris[17:35:47] *** jmcp has quit IRC[17:36:13] *** jmcp has joined #opensolaris[17:36:14] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jmcp[17:36:27] *** twisti has quit IRC[17:38:18] *** bourbon has joined #opensolaris[17:38:45] *** InTheWings has quit IRC[17:41:26] *** jmcp has quit IRC[17:41:42] *** jmcp has joined #opensolaris[17:41:42] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jmcp[17:43:31] <kimc> This is a fine thing.. after months and a couple of rounds of firmware from Sun ..now have the Sunrays able to connect over an ipsec vpn[17:44:21] *** astra-x has joined #opensolaris[17:46:51] *** jfisc has quit IRC[17:47:42] *** hunter has joined #opensolaris[17:49:43] *** crichardso has quit IRC[17:50:36] *** ozux has quit IRC[17:50:43] *** jfisc has joined #opensolaris[17:54:16] *** wrapster has left #opensolaris[17:56:47] *** deet has joined #opensolaris[18:00:11] *** Fallen_Demon has quit IRC[18:01:15] *** TommyTheKid has joined #opensolaris[18:03:03] <astra-x> so how is opensolaris doing now that oracle runs the town?[18:03:31] <astra-x> i am mildly fearful of migrating from openfiler to opensolaris for my nas cause of what may happen with solaris as a whole now[18:03:37] <longcat> seems anything related to opensolaris has been pretty mum[18:03:49] <longcat> but you'll soon earn a ban with much more speculation[18:04:00] <longcat> or at least strong reprove[18:04:37] <winstonw> OpenUNIX eh?[18:11:15] *** xtrondo has quit IRC[18:14:05] <astra-x> longcat: mum?[18:15:26] *** crichardso has joined #opensolaris[18:15:27] *** milek has quit IRC[18:17:52] <astra-x> haven't decided if i want to use freebsd or opensolaris yet for this project though[18:18:24] *** c00p has quit IRC[18:18:30] *** ziyourenxiang has quit IRC[18:18:31] *** c00p has joined #opensolaris[18:19:13] *** nitrile_ has joined #opensolaris[18:20:17] <longcat> Probably easier and more reliable to install opensolaris and if some time in the future you need to switch to solaris because opensolaris is no longer supported than having to deal with zfs on freebsd[18:20:53] <winstonw> astra-x: If you're using zfs I would suggest using OSOL because I still have doubts with FreeBSD's zfs implentation, its old, stable, but even then it had a rather large security issue[18:21:28] <winstonw> basically if you loose power with a certian set of conditions you can ruin permissions[18:21:32] <winstonw> iirc[18:21:57] *** nitrile has quit IRC[18:24:34] *** nitrile has joined #opensolaris[18:25:26] *** swift has quit IRC[18:25:42] <astra-x> winstonw: oh, i guess i just don't feel confident enough in my solaris administration capabilities[18:27:05] <winstonw> astra-x: :-) I am in the same position, however, if you are very good with FreeBSD I would suggest you verify my claims and see if there are any current issues -- no use in learning OSOL if you have another system that works just as good[18:28:05] <astra-x> winstonw: well i was going to use freenas as some of collegues have no ability to administrate from the cli, and they are using 7.2. fbsd 8.0 is supposed to have zfs 14 which is allegedly no longer experimental[18:28:11] *** nitrile_ has quit IRC[18:30:26] <winstonw> You may wish to force your colleges to read the handbook[18:31:03] <winstonw> tell them if they don't know how to take care of the Operating System in the simplest way possible they can't be safe with it[18:31:29] <melbogia> I am trying a zfs send (local) | zfs recieve (remote) , the filesystem exists on remote and i am trying to overwrite it, -F doesn't work. I get this error "must destroy them to overwrite it"[18:31:34] <melbogia> is there a way around that?[18:31:43] <winstonw> idk, I don't work so I don't know how to work with colleges so mind my silliness[18:33:43] *** niq has joined #opensolaris[18:34:17] <astra-x> winstonw: well small companies like mine only have one IT[18:34:35] <astra-x> and if my administrators need to do something, they don't have patience to learn things[18:36:14] *** twisti has joined #opensolaris[18:36:31] <winstonw> ahh[18:36:54] <andersenep> astra-x: heh, hope you have a good backup solution then, whatever course you decide to take...[18:37:52] <astra-x> thanks andersenep[18:38:05] <astra-x> i am testing osol0906 right now in vmware[18:38:13] <winstonw> there must be some literature on the risks of allowing untrained users to have privledged access[18:38:17] <astra-x> like it is crazy how stupid you can be with things[18:38:27] <astra-x> like i honestlyl have no idea how to patch opensolaris[18:39:28] <astra-x> they won't have privleged access[18:39:31] <longcat> there's no patching as you knew it. security updates are provided with a paid subscription, or you want wait for the next release, or track the dev branch[18:39:38] <astra-x> but i don't want to get bitched at as why this doesn't have a webgui[18:39:47] * astra-x thinks maybe he can install webmin securely[18:40:34] <winstonw> :-)[18:42:12] <g4lt-mordant> astra-x, uhm, not many OSes DO have a webgui to patch....[18:42:35] <effnorwood> anyone have a build of opensolaris that will run on my ipad? i need to get the crappy os it shipped with off.[18:42:40] * g4lt-mordant can think of only one, and using it is Considered Harmful[18:44:02] *** RoyK has quit IRC[18:44:04] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris[18:44:27] <astra-x> no i mean[18:44:38] <astra-x> webgui to creates shares and the like on the raidz2[18:44:50] <g4lt-mordant> okay, indiana is REALLY beginning to piss me off. man -M /usr/share/man vi gives me a vim manpage[18:47:45] <winstonw> I thought vi is vim in that release[18:47:56] <Stric> it is..[18:51:30] *** RoyK has joined #opensolaris[18:52:02] <g4lt-mordant> so Unix is dead[18:52:52] <winstonw> nope, install nvi[18:52:57] <Stric> and in a related channel, #solaris, some other person just bumped into limitations that solaris vi has, but vim doesn't..[18:53:01] <winstonw> also i think there is an old vi in the older releases[18:53:21] <winstonw> like in a ucb directory iirc[18:53:51] <g4lt-mordant> Stric, that actually prompted the issue for me, as I wanted to see what could be done[18:54:02] <Stric> /usr/has/bin/vi or similar I think[18:54:11] <winstonw> ahhh that sounds right[18:56:06] <CIA-21> Christopher Baumbauer - Oracle America - San Diego United States <Chris.Baumbauer at Oracle dot COM>: 6904937 thread spinning in anon_array_enter causing ps and other proc tools to hang[18:58:20] *** RoyK has quit IRC[18:59:10] <winstonw> I have to say it is warming to see CIA send a mesg[18:59:35] <Stric> /usr/xpg4/bin/vi is also the old one[19:00:58] <Stric> Version SVR4.0, Solaris 2.5.0 <- :version[19:00:59] *** bourbon has quit IRC[19:03:28] <melbogia> I get this error when zfs receive completes, "cannot mount '/datapool/dumps/archive': directory is not empty". Anybody know why? /datapool/dumps/archive is the filesystem is the one I synced[19:03:42] *** _setuid_H has joined #opensolaris[19:04:03] *** dalibor has joined #opensolaris[19:04:25] <_setuid_H> Hello guys, I'd like to point one question to our colleges from Sun. Does anybody know what is the status of integration wpa 2 to solaris 10?[19:04:38] <_setuid_H> based on this document from 2006 http://uat.mentorware.com/bhive/a/1000/1153/transcript-SEE-20061024.pdf[19:04:52] <_setuid_H> there was a plan to implement that[19:06:46] *** randw has joined #opensolaris[19:06:49] *** lattera has joined #opensolaris[19:09:12] *** Spencer_tt has quit IRC[19:10:53] *** g4lt-mordant has quit IRC[19:12:52] *** derchris has quit IRC[19:12:57] *** derchris has joined #opensolaris[19:14:46] *** randw has quit IRC[19:14:50] *** randw has joined #opensolaris[19:15:25] *** g4lt-mordant has joined #opensolaris[19:19:22] *** Spencer_tt has joined #opensolaris[19:22:02] *** achester has joined #opensolaris[19:22:22] *** achester has quit IRC[19:23:05] *** duri has quit IRC[19:25:16] *** duri has joined #opensolaris[19:27:24] <nikolam> hm :)[19:27:54] <nikolam> how one update program inside /dev for newer release if runnin older /dev release ? :)[19:28:13] <_setuid_H> nikolam helloy[19:28:24] <_setuid_H> pkg install pkg_fmri[19:28:26] <_setuid_H> should be enough[19:28:38] <_setuid_H> it will get package with latest fmri[19:30:08] *** Mech0z has joined #opensolaris[19:30:09] <nikolam> so its something like, pfexec pkg install openoffice_fmri ?[19:30:23] <_setuid_H> pfexec pkg install openoffice yep[19:30:40] <_setuid_H> it will get openoffice with latest fmri[19:30:49] <Mech0z> Anyone know why when I access my Opensolaris server through Putty (from a windows machine) its super slow, but when I browse the folders I shared its fast as ever[19:31:06] <Mech0z> it takes like 2 min for it to pop up with a password "question" after the username[19:31:30] <eviljames> reverse dns[19:31:35] <effnorwood> Mech0z - yes - dns[19:31:53] <eviljames> Mech0z: add an entry to /etc/hosts (or however you choose to manage your dns) for the machine you're connecting from.[19:31:54] <tsoome> getent ipnodes yourwindowshost[19:31:55] <Mech0z> can I fix it? Iam sitting on local network with it[19:32:07] <tsoome> and then same with ip[19:32:20] *** ozux has joined #opensolaris[19:32:23] <effnorwood> is sshd_config add a line that says "UseDNS no"[19:33:41] *** dalibor has quit IRC[19:33:42] *** freakazoid0223 has quit IRC[19:34:10] *** tg has quit IRC[19:35:07] *** tg has joined #opensolaris[19:35:49] <nikolam> _setuid_H, i think you did not understand. there is update in update managet but when packages are listed in package manager, only current package versions are listed for that snv_ release[19:36:30] <nikolam> So question were to update single program from newer release while resto of the systm stays in current one.[19:36:42] *** freakazoid0223 has joined #opensolaris[19:37:03] <Mech0z> what should I google for finding out how to edit a file over putty (ssh)[19:37:49] <causality> how to use vi[19:37:53] <_setuid_H> nikolam: that's correct, but you should know that openoffice is probably a metapackage and it can have multiple dependencies[19:38:05] <_setuid_H> causality: this is a joke right?[19:38:33] <causality> _setuid_H: what is a joke?[19:38:36] <nikolam> _setuid_H, so what.[19:38:37] <_setuid_H> Mech0z: what do you mean? like how to open file and edit?[19:38:49] <_setuid_H> nikolam: these dependencies will be also updated[19:38:58] <_setuid_H> causality: like asking here how to use vi editor[19:39:05] <_setuid_H> causality: that sounds like a joke to me[19:39:07] <Mech0z> yes, when I sit on my ubuntu I use gedit, but I cant really use that over putty (and I dont remember what editor my opensolaris has)[19:39:09] <causality> _setuid_H: i wasnt asking that.[19:39:09] <nikolam> so, that would be ok.[19:39:19] <causality> _setuid_H: the other chap asked what to google for....[19:39:26] <_setuid_H> causality: oh ok[19:39:30] <causality> so calm down :)[19:39:43] <_setuid_H> causality: so we have another ubuntu guy, asking how to work in unix?[19:39:56] <_setuid_H> causality: :-)[19:40:08] <Mech0z> Iam wores than ubuntu[19:40:27] <tsoome> there is pretty decent vi guide in docs.sun.com[19:40:31] <_setuid_H> Mech0z: comon man learn at least vi, or you can use sed as well[19:40:44] <causality> can you build Pico in solaris?[19:40:45] <_setuid_H> tsoome: yes it's in advanced users guide[19:40:46] <_setuid_H> probably[19:40:48] <Mech0z> Iam trying vi now just iddnt know what it should be[19:40:54] <_setuid_H> causality: or nano[19:40:55] <Mech0z> what editor was named anyway[19:40:55] <causality> vi <filename>[19:41:13] <nikolam> _setuid_H, you think it could be.. pfexec pkg install openoffice at 0 dot 5.11,5.11–0.134 ?[19:41:24] *** jinx099 has joined #opensolaris[19:42:33] <_setuid_H> nikolam: sounds good to me[19:43:01] <Mech0z> Ehm when I try to vi sshd_config I get some warning (this is my own server for private use) and when I try to enter the password I get this Mech0z is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.[19:43:05] <nikolam> _setuid_H, so you are actually not sure[19:43:30] <Stric> Mech0z: try 'pfexec' instead of sudo on opensolaris[19:43:34] <tsoome> Mech0z: its solaris, use pfexec, not sudo[19:43:41] <Mech0z> ah right[19:43:42] <tsoome> :D[19:43:59] <_setuid_H> Mech0z: you can configure sudo as well, you should know how to do that from ubuntu ...[19:47:40] *** ozux has quit IRC[19:48:49] *** _setuid_H has left #opensolaris[19:50:25] *** nitrile_ has joined #opensolaris[19:50:37] *** freakazoid0223 has quit IRC[19:50:40] *** Reepicheep has joined #opensolaris[19:50:47] *** ozux has joined #opensolaris[19:53:31] *** nitrile has quit IRC[19:55:39] *** MTecknology has left #opensolaris[19:56:30] <CIA-21> Sukumar Swaminathan <Sukumar.Swaminathan at Sun dot COM>: 6923815 Implement FMA functionality in qlge driver, 6936309 qlge 1.03 performance is only at about 2G in Sparc M series systems[19:57:50] <cybernd> probably a stupid question: is the upcoming osol release suitable as desktop OS? or is it more meant to be a server OS with just a tiny destkop extension for administrative stuff?[19:58:58] <Meths> cybernd: It is prefectly suitable. Of course as with any desktop system you need to look at the availability of the apps you normally run and then make your decision.[19:59:30] <cybernd> my plan for availability is xvm[19:59:39] <cybernd> or virtualbox or however its called[20:00:15] <Stric> where "it" are two different products[20:00:20] <cybernd> and the non-availability of games is a feature in my eyes :D[20:00:24] *** bubbva has joined #opensolaris[20:00:50] *** Calibellus has joined #opensolaris[20:02:59] *** _setuid_H has joined #opensolaris[20:05:03] <bball> my netcfg service is in maintenance mode.. the log file says I'm missing /lib/inet/netcfgd..[20:05:49] <_setuid_H> bball: and is it really missing?[20:06:10] <bball> yes :-)[20:06:33] <_setuid_H> bball what about to download package that contains the file and install it?[20:06:54] <_setuid_H> you can use your solaris 10 dvd to get it[20:06:56] <bball> this happened after I did a bfu install of custom ON bits[20:07:02] <bball> :-)[20:07:08] <_setuid_H> that sucks a bit[20:07:14] <bball> but I don't see netcfgd anywhere in the build tree[20:07:21] <_setuid_H> bball sorry for mentioning sol10[20:07:37] <_setuid_H> bball: I just moved from indiana back to solaris 10 and I see it everywhere :-)[20:07:52] <bball> the bfu install wen't mostly OK.. except that networking isn't working[20:08:31] <crichardso> any idea why when i do a zfs destroy on a snap i get dataset is busy?[20:10:35] <Stric> do you have clones based on that snapshot?[20:11:19] <crichardso> nope[20:11:32] <crichardso> it hapens on all my snaps[20:11:45] *** homoioi has joined #opensolaris[20:12:02] *** RoyK has joined #opensolaris[20:13:03] *** homoioi has quit IRC[20:13:47] *** LaidBack_01 has joined #opensolaris[20:14:26] *** sr__ has joined #opensolaris[20:14:32] <sr__> hey[20:14:37] <sr__> guys[20:14:39] <sr__> I have many troubles[20:14:43] <sr__> with my opensolaris[20:14:58] <sr__> http://pastie.org[20:15:00] <sr__> oops[20:15:39] *** wrapster has joined #opensolaris[20:15:42] <sr__> http://pastie.org/904156[20:15:42] *** RoyK has quit IRC[20:16:01] <wrapster> where can i get details on the internal working of IPS?[20:16:05] <sr__> anyone !!! help me please[20:17:25] <sr__> sr@opensolaris:~$ uname -a[20:17:26] <sr__> SunOS opensolaris 5.11 snv_129 i86pc i386 i86pc Solaris[20:17:26] <sr__> sr@opensolaris:~$[20:17:27] <LaidBack_01> sr__: set up an alternate boot environment. That's what it's asking you to do. Follow the instructions, might help a bit. man beadm[20:17:55] *** homoioi has joined #opensolaris[20:18:04] <homoioi> Hi I have some questions: how to know the osol is debug kernel or non-debug kernel? When the osol booting, if it shows "DEBUG enabled", does it mean debug kernel?[20:19:04] *** homoioi has quit IRC[20:19:28] *** homoioi has joined #opensolaris[20:19:35] <sr__> but[20:19:35] <homoioi> Thanks[20:19:46] <sr__> I have in the manage boot envirements[20:20:09][20:20:18] <sr__> there is only one boot enviroment[20:20:40] <crichardso> Stric: i take it back its wierd looks almost like only the ones i have done zfs sends by hand is there a way to see what processes have a dataset open?[20:21:04] <LaidBack_01> you must not have read the part where I said "SET UP another boot env..." like they are asking you to do[20:21:17] *** ThothCrimson has quit IRC[20:21:19] <LaidBack_01> also, you[20:21:20] <LaidBack_01> don't[20:21:21] <LaidBack_01> need[20:21:24] <LaidBack_01> too hit enter[20:21:28] <LaidBack_01> after every couple[20:21:30] <LaidBack_01> of words.[20:21:37] <LaidBack_01> see how annoying that is?[20:21:58] *** lblume has quit IRC[20:22:03] <sr__> i seee[20:23:03] *** homoioi has quit IRC[20:24:00] *** lblume has joined #opensolaris[20:24:30] <sr__> but[20:24:33] <sr__> I am sorry[20:24:44] *** twisti has quit IRC[20:25:07] *** LaidBack_01 has left #opensolaris[20:25:11] <sr__> I really do not understand you, I am so stupid in opensolaris[20:25:30] <sr__> http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=443552[20:26:54] *** RoyK has joined #opensolaris[20:27:15] *** plompi has joined #opensolaris[20:27:28] *** twilling has quit IRC[20:27:44] <sr__> will it good for my problems ?[20:27:51] *** plompi has left #opensolaris[20:30:03] *** drgbr has quit IRC[20:30:21] *** _setuid_H has quit IRC[20:30:43] <sr__> ok thanks anyway[20:31:01] *** brontide has quit IRC[20:32:17] *** _RoyK has joined #opensolaris[20:33:03] *** Spencer_tt has quit IRC[20:34:04] *** RoyK has left #opensolaris[20:34:10] *** _RoyK is now known as RoyK[20:34:43] *** RoyK^ has joined #opensolaris[20:34:53] *** longcat has left #opensolaris[20:35:17] *** raichoo has quit IRC[20:37:30] *** raichoo has joined #opensolaris[20:40:51] *** Kraln has joined #opensolaris[20:42:15] <Kraln> I was wondering if someone could do me a huge favor. There's a distro of opensolaris for file servers, but they don't publish a .usb. I was wondering if I could ask someone could convert the iso to usb (you need a running system to do this)[20:42:20] <Kraln> The distro is EON[20:43:05] <jamesd__> Kraln, you can do it by insatlling virtualbox and then make the usb[20:44:30] <Kraln> That seems extremely inefficient.[20:44:43] *** psychicist has joined #opensolaris[20:45:02] *** andersenep has quit IRC[20:46:54] <jamesd__> Kraln, then contact the people that package the distro you want to use and complain[20:47:29] <Kraln> I didn't ask for a lecture, merely a favor. If you're not interested, you're just adding line noise to IRC :)[20:48:45] <jamesd__> sorry i just gave you a solution to the problem if you can't find anyone to help...[20:49:46] <sr__> noone cares here about users like me[20:52:21] *** andersenep has joined #opensolaris[20:53:16] <jamesd__> sr__, what is the issue.... garen posted an anwser to your problem... looks like[20:54:09] <sr__> sr@opensolaris:~# pkg -R /mnt/osol-129 install SUNWipkg[20:54:10] <sr__> Creating Plan /[20:54:59] <sr__> is it normal for opensolaris?[20:55:10] *** icarus901 has quit IRC[20:55:31] <sr__> COOOOL[20:55:38] <sr__> i see right now[20:55:45] <sr__> that is really awesome[20:56:02] <Stric> Your statements are confusing and you hit enter too often[20:56:07] <CIA-21> Edward Gillett <Edward.Gillett at Sun dot COM>: 6938076 bootadm can create a grub menu with a missing '$' for the kernel line with Solaris Next build 135[20:56:57] <Stric> Like "is it normal" .. what is "it" ?[20:57:47][20:58:30] <jdoe> speaking of grub, how can I get rid of the splash screen? The fullscreen blue opensolaris thing with the progress bar?[20:59:34] <Stric> sr__: Yes.[21:00:34] *** freitas has left #opensolaris[21:02:30] *** g4lt-mordant has quit IRC[21:05:45] *** yarihm has quit IRC[21:06:21] *** freakazoid0223 has joined #opensolaris[21:07:54] *** syamajala has joined #opensolaris[21:12:06] *** g4lt-mordant has joined #opensolaris[21:14:51] *** bklang has joined #opensolaris[21:15:01] *** _setuid_H has joined #opensolaris[21:15:47] *** jfisc has quit IRC[21:17:20] *** staropram has joined #opensolaris[21:18:13] <staropram> Can ndiswrapper be used on MilaX?[21:19:11] *** leito has quit IRC[21:19:27] <staropram> i guess i should try it out[21:19:45] <staropram> since the ndiswrapper toolkit appears to be available for OS[21:19:53] *** ma3x__ has joined #opensolaris[21:20:56] *** jfisc has joined #opensolaris[21:22:04] *** RoyK^ has quit IRC[21:23:22] *** ma3x_ has quit IRC[21:23:39] <staropram> Does anyone know if any structural changes happened to the dev team after oracle took over?[21:23:46] <staropram> And re-orgs?[21:23:52] <nikolam> hm. what do you think is the target audience for opensolaris today, and now?[21:23:53] *** Teknix has quit IRC[21:24:10] <nikolam> How do everyone that see this questioin see it?[21:24:28] <staropram> I think the aim was to compete with bsd and linux[21:24:31] *** leito has joined #opensolaris[21:24:33] <staropram> As a server and desktop os[21:24:50] *** Andrew3 has joined #opensolaris[21:24:55] <staropram> As to who exactly is using it, well there must be some stats somewhere[21:25:02] <staropram> At least for registered users.[21:25:16] <nikolam> to compete. ok, but thats not target audience[21:25:38] <staropram> I expect that there are a lot of legacy people and mainly server people[21:25:39] <nikolam> and not talking about present stats[21:25:52] *** RoyK^ has joined #opensolaris[21:25:57] <nikolam> aha ok. legacy people.[21:26:16] <staropram> Yeah, it's like you can still buy a DEC alphastation 255[21:26:18] *** freakazoid0223 has quit IRC[21:26:21] <staropram> because of all the legacy software[21:26:35] <staropram> I expect there is a large legacy market for solaris that moved over to OS[21:26:41] <staropram> but that is just a guess[21:26:51] <Stric> nikolam: What is your purpose with this question, and who is your target audience with it?[21:26:56] <staropram> Personally, I just thought the technology looked awesome on OS[21:27:01] *** Spencer_tt has joined #opensolaris[21:27:19] <staropram> and I have some nostalgia from university days[21:28:13] <nikolam> Stric, my target audience with question is everyone on the channel. purpose is to find out what do you people think what are appropriate user scenarios for opensolaris today and now. regarding experience[21:28:42] <nikolam> So what do you think, who mostly could , should and in the future, use it.[21:29:47] <Stric> What's the difference between "today" and "now"?[21:30:05] <nikolam> Stric, not looking for rethorical answers[21:30:24] <Stric> I'm just curious and want to understand the question before answering[21:30:51] <nikolam> its the same think. but look at it: from this moment into the future[21:30:56] *** RoyK^ has quit IRC[21:31:42] <nikolam> and also if tomorrow, (Apr 6th you would tell someone to use it, what profile of users would it be , why and for what use[21:32:10] <Stric> My guess is that some plan with osol was to.. 1) get hyped and bring in people that way (since open source is kinda hyped nowadays).. 2) get external people anyway.. 3) make it a bit more desktop:y..[21:32:28] <sr__> everyone can use opensolaris just for fun[21:32:48] *** yarihm has joined #opensolaris[21:32:52] <nikolam> for fun. ok[21:33:11] <nikolam> Stric, what do you think[21:33:25] <Stric> ..?[21:34:20] <nikolam> some plan.. was. What do you think it is apropriate for now and in the future[21:34:41] <Stric> Huh?[21:35:49] <nikolam> so you think it is for ¨opensource hyped external people¨ that use it for desktop?[21:37:22] <Stric> I'm not sure what you're trying to say/ask/do.. but I said what I said..[21:37:54] <Stric> And that's only a guess.. and only a guess at a part of some plan..[21:38:09] *** RoyK^ has joined #opensolaris[21:38:12] *** _setuid_H has left #opensolaris[21:38:27] <nikolam> ok, thannk you Stric . Anyone else?[21:38:45] <Stric> (this feels like an article coming up with the headline "The main plan for OpenSolaris was x y z.")[21:39:47] <nikolam> ho Stric you are missing the point. I am not talking aboult past. Dont know why you are looking only to that what was etc.[21:39:47] *** freakazoid0223 has joined #opensolaris[21:40:13] <nikolam> I am interested specifically what do you think who should use it now and in the near future.[21:40:19] <Stric> I'm pretty confident I'm missing your point, because it seems confusing :)[21:40:33] <nikolam> Stric, thank you Stric for comment.[21:40:37] *** Odin- has quit IRC[21:40:55] <nikolam> Anyone else, what do you think?[21:40:58] <Gugge> I know im gonna use opensolaris today and in the future, so thats one person[21:41:43] <nikolam> Gugge, yep ok, what is your user profile. for what you are/will use it and how you describe yourself as user[21:42:35] *** lblume has quit IRC[21:42:52] <Gugge> i use it for "nas" boxes[21:42:56] *** sr__ has quit IRC[21:43:35] *** q5sys has joined #opensolaris[21:44:35] *** lblume has joined #opensolaris[21:44:39] *** sr__ has joined #opensolaris[21:44:47] <nikolam> Gugge, so you use it in your company where you work or you support other company networks ? or use it to serve some service, inside your business or others etc?[21:45:10] <Gugge> yes[21:45:51] <nikolam> yes something of that or all of that Gugge[21:46:30] <Gugge> all of the above[21:46:44] <nikolam> great Gugge ;)[21:46:50] <RoyK^> hi all. I have a crash log in /var/crash and I just wonder - why didn't the box reboot automatically after crasing?[21:47:28] <RoyK^> I had to call service personnel to manually reboot the bastard[21:51:13] <nikolam> manual for reboot is saying it should reboot after crash. What opensolaris version/release do you use RoyK[21:51:25] <sr__> http://pastie.org/904298[21:51:35] <sr__> problems again[21:52:55] <sr__> Action install failed for 'usr/X11/lib/X11/fonts/TrueType' (pkg://opensolaris.org/x11/compatibility/links-xorg):[21:52:56] <sr__> ActionExecutionError: attempted to remove link 'usr/X11/lib/X11/fonts/TrueType' but found a directory[21:55:12] <sr__> and then I received next message: The Boot Environment osol-129 failed to be updated. A snapshot was taken before the failed attempt and has been restored so no changes have been made to osol-129.[21:55:32] <RoyK^> nikolam: this one is 111[21:56:02] <CIA-21> Sue Gleeson <Susan.Gleeson at Sun dot COM>: 6879350 RFE: Add ability to enable/disable SRPT on specific HCAs[21:56:24] *** Yu\2 has quit IRC[21:57:16] <effnorwood> RoyK^ check the bios settings. Sounds like you might have "last state" turned on instead of "always [reboot]"[21:58:07] *** syamajala has quit IRC[22:00:51] *** jamesd__ has quit IRC[22:01:10] <RoyK^> effnorwood: heh - not likely - a hard reboot fixed it[22:01:44] *** jamesd2 has joined #opensolaris[22:02:07] <RoyK^> effnorwood: last I checked bios settings was "up", not "last state", also, "last state" was "up" so it shouldn't be a problem[22:02:50] <effnorwood> the next place i would look then is grub boot time options[22:03:09] <RoyK^> huh? grub was the same after the reboot[22:03:39] <jamesd2> jdoe, remopepsima5[22:03:39] <RoyK^> no change in config - a reboot made it come up again[22:04:35] *** snuff-home has quit IRC[22:06:58] *** snuff-home has joined #opensolaris[22:11:51] *** datafirm has joined #opensolaris[22:11:55] <datafirm> Hello,[22:12:18] <datafirm> Can someone point me to a good disk IO benchmark tool? I want to compare the speed from my attached storage vs. NFS mount.[22:14:45] <hali> datafirm: iometer[22:15:15] <datafirm> hali: OK, it's not on the box.. but I'll see about getting it installed.[22:15:35] <hali> or iozone[22:15:41] <hali> iozone is probably better[22:16:27] <datafirm> hali: Just looking for a simple CLI too to check if this NFS drive is acting up..[22:17:52] *** RoyK^ has quit IRC[22:19:16] *** tg has quit IRC[22:20:24] *** tg has joined #opensolaris[22:22:49] <jamesd2> a quote from the movie solaris... aka things that make you go hmm... "I was with the project when it was still with NASA, before it was sold to DBA."[22:23:50] *** Yu\2 has joined #opensolaris[22:26:31] <datafirm> hali: cant seem to compile it on Solaris 11[22:27:47] <Stric> datafirm: the best benchmark is "do your regular thing and see how fast it goes"[22:27:49] *** ThePickle has quit IRC[22:30:31] *** zazenrasta has joined #opensolaris[22:31:46] <alanc> hard to compile anything on Solaris 11 since it hasn't been released yet[22:32:27] <datafirm> alanc: Heh.. I thought 5.11 snv_89 i86pc i386 i86pc[22:32:32] <datafirm> 5.11 was version 11[22:32:42] *** scottdickson has left #opensolaris[22:32:43] <alanc> wow, that's positively ancient[22:33:04] <alanc> it's a development build / pre-release - it's far from being done yet[22:34:09] <datafirm> alanc: that's what Joyent is using on my accelerator.[22:34:19] <datafirm> sadly im not able to upgrade the kernel.[22:35:05] <tsoome> you dont upgrade kernel[22:35:15] <tsoome> you update whole system.[22:35:56] *** staropram has quit IRC[22:36:55] <datafirm> tsoome: Either way, my hands are tied. They do not let me since Im running on a zone and it could affect the other users.[22:37:12] <tsoome> buy an computer:)[22:37:27] <datafirm> already pre-paid :)[22:38:42] <alanc> in any case, I was just nit-picking the name, and have no information on what's needed to compile any disk benchmarks on Solaris Express or OpenSolaris - I thought bonnie had been ported, but never benchmarked a disk so don't pay attention to them[22:39:34] *** raichoo has left #opensolaris[22:39:34] * bda uses bonnie++ or filebech.[22:39:40] <bda> Although filebench has been grumpy lately.[22:39:45] <Stric> datafirm: As I said before.. the only real benchmark is whatever you're normally doing..[22:40:00] <Stric> datafirm: .. which is..?[22:40:06] <datafirm> Stric: Its mainly serving website/applications[22:40:15] <bda> Joyent's zone storage is all NFS/iSCSI backed anyway.[22:41:03] *** piwi has joined #opensolaris[22:42:53] *** Animal-X has quit IRC[22:45:40] *** bklang has quit IRC[22:48:14] *** RoyK^ has joined #opensolaris[22:51:37] *** dalibor_ has joined #opensolaris[22:52:26] *** Netwolf has quit IRC[22:53:31] *** Netwolf has joined #opensolaris[22:54:55] *** icarus901 has joined #opensolaris[22:55:12] <datadigger> nikolam: My Windows Vista got confused by a spurious diskwrite. Recovery didn't work. I rescued my files with Ubuntu, then installed Opensolaris (SXCE snv_b130, to be exact) as my main desktop system (on an Acer laptop). I must say Ubuntu was easier and 'more complete' out of the box, but I want zfs. Does that answer your question?[22:55:14] *** dalibor_ is now known as dalibor[22:56:00] *** Netwolf has quit IRC[22:56:01] *** Netwolf has joined #opensolaris[22:56:10] *** yippi has joined #opensolaris[22:57:19] <tsoome> solaris has never been about being easy.[22:58:42] <nikolam> datadigger, yes, thanks :)[22:59:11] <nikolam> I am on laptop, too, i had ubuntu desktop that didnt want to change etc[22:59:36] <tsoome> also about complete - if you mean complete set of gnu crap, then it never will be, unless they change all to gnu, but then it wont be solaris any more.[23:01:00] <nikolam> gnu is not a crap[23:01:29] <tsoome> try to build some gnu softare without gcc. your opinion might change:P[23:02:10] <nikolam> try not to use gnome.[23:02:10] <tsoome> there are lot of non crap as well, dont get me wrong;)[23:02:18] *** lattera has quit IRC[23:02:39] <nikolam> oh, there is, great then[23:02:58] <tsoome> doent make rest less crap nevertheless;)[23:03:59] <nikolam> well i dunnoo, i were using linux from 96 here and there. and frankly dont care whay anyone is saying about gnu in general.[23:04:12] *** comay has joined #opensolaris[23:04:23] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o comay[23:04:30] <RoyK^> I got a crash a day back and the box didn't restart. this is 111 - is there something that should be set for it to reboot automatically?[23:05:09] <jdoe> jamesd2: ?[23:05:34] <CosmicDJ> http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20100310215559 Marc Espie on portability "At some point in the past, autoconf was *meant* to simplify porting programs. These days, it's more a "use gnu-linux, or die""[23:05:36] <jamesd2> jdoe, sorry cat walked on my keyboard.. while i was away[23:06:23] <datadigger> nikolam: I don't mind gnome. But I hate the gedit insert date/time plugin doesn't remember the custom format :( ;)[23:06:31] <CosmicDJ> RoyK^: IIRC on sparc you can use a watchdog which automatically reboots the box once it doesn't respond anymore, not sure about x64...[23:07:04] <jdoe> jamesd2: darn, was hoping it was some occult way to nuke the splash screen ;)[23:07:24] <RoyK^> CosmicDJ: most x86 hw has that too[23:08:27] *** beorn_ has quit IRC[23:09:32] <nikolam> well, generalizations are never the best[23:10:18] <jamesd2> jdoe, i know how to do it from grub, but not sure how to make it happen always... remove the color lines, and the image that it loads, and change console to text instead of graphics.... files are in /boot/grub[23:10:29] <CosmicDJ> nikolam: well IIRC the belenix guy uses gcc for everything because compiling most gnu/oss stuff with sun studio simply dosn't work[23:10:54] *** chilicuil has joined #opensolaris[23:11:03] <datadigger> nikolam: And it would be nice to switch between single-head and dual-head video without restarting X.[23:11:07] *** sr__ has quit IRC[23:11:32] <nikolam> Well. I dont know everything.[23:12:44] <alanc> with some graphics cards you can switch between single & dual head without restarting - at least nvidia & intel support that[23:14:16] *** astra-x has quit IRC[23:15:06] *** Odin- has joined #opensolaris[23:16:43] <jdoe> jamesd2: and that nukes the splash screen of grub's or the thing that pops up after?[23:16:43] *** yarihm has quit IRC[23:16:48] <jdoe> this is post-grub, pre-X[23:17:02] <jdoe> ... but since I have gdm disabled it just sits there scrolling back and forth until I press a key.[23:17:09] <jdoe> a minor irritation, but an irritation.[23:17:21] <jamesd2> hmm that is just pre-X[23:18:19] <alanc> grub tells the kernel to load the splash screen while booting until X loads[23:18:37] <alanc> you should be able to edit grub's menu file to make the change permanent[23:18:44] *** Bateau has joined #opensolaris[23:23:22] *** andersenep_ has joined #opensolaris[23:24:21] <jdoe> alanc: super.[23:24:28] <jdoe> jamesd2, alanc: thanks.[23:26:06] <alanc> need to remove the splashimage line and the console=graphics option from the boot options line[23:26:22] *** mroconnor has quit IRC[23:26:48] *** andersenep has quit IRC[23:26:59] *** andersenep_ is now known as andersenep[23:36:01] <datadigger> alanc: Thanks, I'll give that a try.[23:36:12] <datadigger> (dualhead)[23:36:25] <alanc> with nvidia, use their config gui, with intel, use xrandr[23:36:45] <strawf> anyone used anything similar to vnstat in opensolaris? I would like to keep track of amounts transferred[23:37:51] <jamesd2> strawf, there are tools that are part of dtrace toolkit that can help or ntop, or wireshark could be helpful[23:38:34] <strawf> alright, thanks. I will look into dtrace first :)[23:40:08] *** xapiens has quit IRC[23:41:23] <duckinator> is there a way to tell autoconf and related annoying crap where gcc is located? it's gcc-4.3.2 here[23:42:24] <tsoome> set your path[23:43:52] *** anibal has joined #opensolaris[23:45:34] <duckinator> tsoome: it wants `gcc`, i have `gcc-4.3.2`[23:45:52] <tsoome> so make link to it[23:46:13] <tsoome> its damn unix, think. you have million ways to solve it[23:46:40] <duckinator> tsoome: i was asking because i know on gentoo they have a way to have a symlink handled automatically with each gcc upgrade[23:46:57] <tsoome> this is not gentoo, havent it occurred to you?:P[23:47:12] <duckinator> ... i was asking because i thought maybe osol had something similar?[23:47:29] <tsoome> afaik no, why should it?:P[23:47:45] <duckinator> same reason people are supposed to have brains, but apparently you don't know anything about that[23:47:56] <duckinator> (hint: "it makes sense")[23:48:08] *** gm152 has joined #opensolaris[23:48:18] <tsoome> why should you have gcc as gcc-4.3.2? you install it in separate branch and set your path[23:48:49] <tsoome> as i told there are million ways to do it. there is no one single correct path[23:49:17] <duckinator> ok, so why are you acting so stupid about it? as i said i just asked because on some systems there is a "standard" way for it[23:49:36] <tsoome> the fact gentoo does it one way does not that way more correct than others.[23:49:54] <duckinator> you really don't listen do you?[23:49:59] <duckinator> or read, to be more correct[23:50:01] * JeremyK yawns[23:50:11] <tsoome> get out of box.[23:50:26] <tsoome> look around, there are more ways than gentoo way[23:50:37] <duckinator> nobody said there wasn't[23:51:00] *** sndcrb has quit IRC[23:51:07] *** Teknix has joined #opensolaris[23:51:12] <jamesd2> duckinator, what if you install a new version of gcc to test, but you still want to use the old version most of the time... the gentoo way just made it harder on you....[23:51:18] <duckinator> tsoome: i asked because i know multiple operating systems/distros have their own "standard" ways for handling this. i asked because i wasn't sure if opensolaris did. is that honestly so hard of a concept for you to comprehend?[23:52:30] <duckinator> jamesd2: i know, but i just used that as an example. i didn't say that was the only damn way to do it and opensolaris should have it. i just know from experience that if you don't use the "standard" manner of handling stuff for the os/distro you choose, people tend to whine and tell you to go do it "right" then talk to them[23:53:00] *** Yu\2 has quit IRC[23:53:39] <jamesd2> duckinator, take tsoome's word for it he works for Oracle/Sun and if he doesn't know another way there probably isn't one....[23:54:10] *** xapiens has joined #opensolaris[23:54:20] <tsoome> btw i doesnt work for neither oracle nor sun, just merely the partner;)[23:55:23] <duckinator> wow, really guys? all i did was ask a question. i never even *suggested* another way to do it, i just mentioned an *example* of how things are done elsewhere and mentioned similar ways are why i asked. that doesn't mean i think it's better, i just ASKED.[23:56:12] <alanc> sadly, working for oracle or sun does not come with omniscience as an employee benefit - most of us don't know everything about every part of the OS either[23:56:41] *** datadigger has quit IRC[23:57:17] <alanc> as for autoconf, isn't it just running it with CC=/opt/whereever/you/put/it/bin/gcc-4.3.2 ?[23:57:44] <tsoome> i have worked from grounds up as admin, used many different workarounds for various issues, in many cases there are "common" solutions, in other cases there are none.[23:57:48] <Stric> I was just going to suggest that too[23:57:53] <Stric> (CC=blah that is)[23:57:59] <duckinator> tsoome: which is the very reason i asked[23:58:09] <duckinator> alanc: i'll try that, thanks[23:58:40] <tsoome> there is one possible flaw, gcc does check its name to switch on different modes (if im correct)[23:58:48] <Stric> CC=blah has worked the last 15 years or so at least[23:58:50] <tsoome> or does it not?[23:59:12] <Stric> tsoome: hm.. not that I know of.. ibm xlc does though..[23:59:56] <tsoome> well, yea, im not sure too. usually avoiding gcc.[23:59:58] <Stric> debian also has gcc-x.y.z (for the versions you want) and 'gcc' pointing at the currently blessed version