March 31, 2010 
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March 31, 2010 [00:01:27] <melbogia> hey guys, I used netcat to zfs send /receive data because it was 7TB and netcat is faster then ssh. But the zfs send side says it's done and the receive side should also be done but it's not and iostat is show kr/s activity, there is nothing else going on the machine. I used Dtrace iosnoop script and see lots of these http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=RqDcWefN[00:01:41] <melbogia> any clue what is wrong? or why zfs recive is stuck?[00:01:48] *** robinbowes has joined #opensolaris[00:02:07] *** hunter has joined #opensolaris[00:02:07] <tsoome> buffers being written down?[00:02:22] <tsoome> wiat a bit and see if it will be done?[00:02:26] <tsoome> wait*[00:02:29] <melbogia> it's being like that for a while[00:02:39] <tsoome> how long?[00:02:52] <hunter> Is there a known problem with the x86 (i386 / 32 bit) upgrade path?[00:03:21] <melbogia> at least 10 mins[00:03:47] *** peturi has quit IRC[00:03:55] <deet> hunter: are you looking for the fabled release notes?[00:04:05] <alanc> upgrade likes memory, 32-bit computers tend not to have much[00:04:07] <g4lt-mordant> tsoome, yeah, getting the transcriptionist lately is nontrivial ;P[00:04:15] <hunter> http://pastebin.com/fBqqhHtJ[00:04:36] <hunter> I'm seeing that error on a 32 bit system, originally installed from the 0906 live CD.[00:04:55] <hunter> on 64 bit systems installed _from_the_same_CD_, we don't see the error.[00:05:22] <hunter> The 64bit systems "pkg image-update" works fine.[00:05:29] <alanc> weird, I'd have to ask the #pkg5 folks[00:06:02] <hunter> alanc: would you? Or should I - I'm an old hand at rhel/centos/fedora/linux admin, but I haven't touched solaris in about a decade.[00:06:10] *** ahe has quit IRC[00:06:38] <alanc> I meant if I hit that problem, I would - since you're hitting, I'd suggest you try[00:06:58] <hunter> The machine in question doesn't have that package (python-24-simplejson) installed, so it must be a dependancy of soemthing else.[00:07:13] <alanc> they don't bite... unless you go in and scream "apt-get rules! you suck!"[00:10:35] *** Yu\2 has quit IRC[00:12:23] *** RoyK^ has joined #opensolaris[00:13:34] <hunter> No response - might be after work hours - I'll try again in the morning[00:15:23] *** jpd_ has quit IRC[00:15:33] <melbogia> so this zfs receive is still stuck for some reason.[00:15:43] *** miltondsilva has joined #opensolaris[00:17:10] *** raichoo has quit IRC[00:22:34] *** Plazma has quit IRC[00:22:44] *** psychicist has quit IRC[00:24:36] *** Megaf has quit IRC[00:25:08] *** zenjuzu has joined #opensolaris[00:27:05] *** _madmax_ has joined #opensolaris[00:27:30] *** terrygardner has quit IRC[00:28:28] *** moepmoep has quit IRC[00:28:53] *** Error404NotFound has quit IRC[00:29:53] *** robinbowes has quit IRC[00:31:01] *** dalibor has quit IRC[00:32:24] *** Posterdati has quit IRC[00:33:13] *** moepmoep has joined #opensolaris[00:34:04] *** robinbowes has joined #opensolaris[00:36:50] <sstallion_work> jmcp: *poke*[00:43:06] <spike_> Heya[00:43:13] <spike_> anybody been using osol + nx lately?[00:43:28] <spike_> I know there was a contest entry port that was running well for some time, but the link is dead and i don't see anything newer about it.[00:43:32] * Nemesis launches a water balloon into the channel[00:44:55] *** Posterdati has joined #opensolaris[00:46:05] *** olivier_54 has quit IRC[00:46:18] *** sponix has quit IRC[00:47:33] *** Error404NotFound has joined #opensolaris[00:50:48] <Nemesis> whats the su password when you boot from the live cd[00:50:57] <Nemesis> the default user is "jack"[00:51:29] <g4lt-mordant> use pfexec[00:51:42] *** lattera has quit IRC[00:52:08] *** popster has left #opensolaris[00:52:27] *** gebi has quit IRC[00:53:33] *** ewdafa has quit IRC[00:53:56] *** _bob has quit IRC[00:55:48] <Nemesis> the su password is: opensolaris[00:55:52] <Nemesis> bonk[00:56:03] <JeremyK> Nemesis: you could also have done either of the following:[00:56:04] <JeremyK> pfexec su -[00:56:06] <JeremyK> sudo su -[00:56:25] *** t3hrealadamd has quit IRC[00:56:56] <Nemesis> hmm[00:56:57] <Nemesis> ok[00:57:06] <tomww> pfexec bash[00:57:18] <JeremyK> that screws up your prompt.[00:57:30] <Nemesis> well for the record sstallion ...my usb controller is on its own irq..at least when you echo interrupts from the live cd[00:58:19] <Nemesis> so with pfexec su...I dont need a password?[00:58:45] <JeremyK> Nemesis: pfexec is similar to sudo.[00:59:05] <Nemesis> ahh ok[00:59:38] *** doubletwist has quit IRC[01:00:59] *** abford has joined #opensolaris[01:03:15] *** corretico has quit IRC[01:03:41] *** corretico has joined #opensolaris[01:04:04] <Nemesis> and it also does now report that it is on its own irq inside of my own account[01:04:07] <Nemesis> good deal..[01:04:19] <Nemesis> i removed a few things..freed up some irqs[01:04:28] <Nemesis> and that seemed to do the trick[01:05:00] *** andersenep has quit IRC[01:08:54] *** _madmax_ has quit IRC[01:09:25] *** _madmax_ has joined #opensolaris[01:09:42] <Nemesis> froze up though when I booted it with something plugged into one of the usb slots..[01:11:46] *** _madmax_ has quit IRC[01:12:15] *** _madmax_ has joined #opensolaris[01:15:30] *** dunc has quit IRC[01:15:43] <tomww> the USB posrt might be taken as a bootable device, so if you can change the boot order or try switching off legacy USB boot support[01:19:06] <spike_> i don't have /etc/apt/preferences file[01:19:09] <spike_> should i just go ahead and create one?[01:19:18] <spike_> or is there something going on with preferences.d that i don't know bout.[01:19:36] *** q5sys has quit IRC[01:19:51] *** DesiJat has joined #opensolaris[01:20:33] <alanc> umm, /etc/apt? are you sure you're in the right channel?[01:21:28] <alanc> I think there's a nexenta channel if that's what you're using[01:21:30] *** agrajag has quit IRC[01:22:29] <RoyK^> I just wonder[01:22:38] <RoyK^> has anyone made dedup work well?[01:23:09] <RoyK^> last I tried it, it was dead slow and made my system hang for hours after a reboot[01:23:34] <oni-work> I haven't played with it yet[01:24:01] <RoyK^> I'll do more testing when I get my test server back on line[01:24:22] <RoyK^> it tended to reboot every five minutes, so I returned it[01:24:44] *** agrajag has joined #opensolaris[01:24:45] <oni-work> that fits into the "negitive" catigory.[01:25:01] <RoyK^> probably hardware failure[01:25:24] <richlowe> I have it enabled on the pool containing my workspaces, and things aren't as much slower as I'd feared (possibly, not slower at all), but my workspaces are all zfs clones in the first place.[01:25:26] <RoyK^> nothing in the logs, and it did the same with 134 as with 131 as with memtest[01:26:02] <RoyK^> richlowe: heh - I've been testing dedup on 10TB+ and then it slows things down[01:26:34] <taemun> it just depends on how much of the DDT you can keep in arc / l2arc[01:26:38] <RoyK^> richlowe: dedup is just funny on low storage, it gets cool on higher amounts, or it should, but it doesn't[01:27:09] <RoyK^> taemun: you have said so, but exactly how much l2arc should I add for, say, 10TB of storage?[01:27:20] <taemun> ask zfs-discuss[01:27:30] <taemun> also note that when you reboot, l2arc is empty[01:28:56] <RoyK^> meaning what?[01:29:05] <relling> if your data is 8KB, then do the math (or google) (10 terabytes / 8 kb) * 270[01:29:14] <RoyK^> taemun: got any link to docs on this?[01:29:21] <Andys^> RoyK: 32GB of RAM needed for deduping 130,000 blocks[01:29:24] *** tomw has quit IRC[01:29:41] <relling> no, try again[01:29:47] <Andys^> 130,000 blocks is 1TB of data (8K blocksize) or 20TB (128KB blocksize)[01:30:21] <Andys^> sorry[01:30:34] <RoyK^> so with 100TB, how much l2arc?[01:30:42] <taemun> oh its relling ... ask him :P[01:30:49] <Andys^> depends on your blocksize, as you can see[01:30:55] <Andys^> if you have alot of small files, your average blocksize will be small[01:31:20] <RoyK^> for dedup to work well, lower block sizes, so, say, 16k[01:31:25] <Andys^> right[01:31:49] <Andys^> so you'd need 1.28TB of L2ARC for dedup tables[01:32:04] <RoyK^> for how much?[01:32:09] <relling> thats closer to the mark[01:32:11] <Andys^> note that to have that much L2ARC, you need a large amount of system RAM to meep track all of that[01:32:12] <Andys^> for 100TB[01:32:15] <RoyK^> ok[01:32:30] <Andys^> and thats just for dedupe tables :) you'd want more l2arc for the actual data ...[01:33:00] <taemun> .. and how much ram do you need to store the pointers for the 1.28TB of l2arc? :P[01:33:01] <RoyK^> I wonder if it's worth it[01:33:20] <Andys^> you'd need say[01:33:29] <Andys^> at least 64GB of system RAM to run a 2TB L2ARC[01:33:31] <RoyK^> another 10TB of disk space will cost me less[01:33:38] <taemun> (these data sizes should be written in a sun....oracle doco somewhere)[01:33:41] <Andys^> thats what i've been trying to tell you all this time :)[01:33:44] <taemun> the 270 bytes per DDT element, etc[01:33:58] <RoyK^> heh[01:34:01] <tsoome> its not always the block size. if you have really identical files, you can have 128k blocks without problem;)[01:34:08] <Andys^> yeah[01:34:10] <taemun> and before you point me at the source..... I can't nescessarily read that[01:34:10] <RoyK^> I think I'll stick to plain drives[01:34:26] <Andys^> but if you have alot of small files, eg. a mail system... your average block size will be lower as few files will actually hit 128kb[01:34:29] <Andys^> especially with compression enabled[01:34:34] <dizko> i probably missed all the heated discussion...what's the deal with solaris not being free / impact on osol? any oracle employees?[01:35:03] *** lattera has joined #opensolaris[01:35:08] <Andys^> dizko: no effect on opensolaris, afaik[01:35:13] <tsoome> read less ibm fud:P[01:35:17] *** jollyd has joined #opensolaris[01:35:20] *** jollyd has left #opensolaris[01:35:28] *** Error404NotFound has quit IRC[01:35:39] <RoyK^> heh - I'll just do compression and forget about dedup[01:36:02] <Andys^> RoyK: yeah. you can enabled dedupe on a per-filesystem basis anyway.. so you can just turn it on for the parts of your storage that would benefit from it, if any[01:36:03] <tsoome> yea, dedupe is not the universal answer for all torage issues:D[01:36:06] <relling> well, this math assumes total blocks = 100TB/16KB, but you'll need less total space and deduped blocks are more efficient[01:36:17] <Andys^> eg. i'll turn it on for virtual machine storage, but not for email archives[01:36:37] <relling> so the real answer is, try it and tell us :-)[01:36:46] *** knight_ has quit IRC[01:36:49] <RoyK^> Andys^: this is for a backup set, so dedup would be nice, but at that cost, disk space will be cheaper[01:37:01] <Andys^> depends on the dedup ratio you were going to hit, i guess[01:37:27] <Andys^> if you don't care how slow the backups go you could just use dedupe without l2arc; )[01:37:40] *** timsf has quit IRC[01:38:12] <RoyK^> the problem is removing a snapshot and having an uniexpected reboot[01:38:16] <tsoome> when we discussed dedupe with quantum techs, the conclusion was quite the same - its worth "money" at certain rate levels[01:38:23] <relling> mail archives are probably not a good case for dedup[01:38:27] <RoyK^> suddenly the system is offline for a few days[01:38:50] *** sivanov__ has joined #opensolaris[01:38:52] *** sivanov_ has quit IRC[01:38:54] <tsoome> not plain archives, but if you extract attachments, then you might see better effects[01:39:08] <m4rku5> Andys^, well if the filesystem in your VM has 4KiB blocksize then you might not see a lot of identical 128k blocks in your disk-images i guess[01:39:09] <Andys^> RoyK: whatdya mean? long import times?[01:39:22] <Andys^> m4rku5: yes, but i dont use 128kb blocksize for VM disks :)[01:39:27] <relling> but smart mail systems don't keep multiple copies of messages, so they are basically self-deduping[01:39:41] <RoyK^> if zfs operations get interrupted, zfs mount can take hours or days[01:40:12] <Andys^> i'm not 100% sure, but i think having a dedicated ZIL fixes that..[01:40:16] <relling> HDDs and performance do not mix[01:40:31] <Andys^> i havent had alot of reboots, but it feels like my pool import times dramatically improved after i installed ZIL[01:40:46] <relling> dedup doesn't use the ZIL, they are orthogonal[01:40:51] *** terrygardner has joined #opensolaris[01:40:52] <Andys^> not talking about dedup[01:40:57] <Andys^> talking about pool import timing[01:41:07] <Andys^> on a big pool it can sometimes take freakin ages[01:41:23] *** terrygardner has quit IRC[01:41:30] <relling> Solaris 10? Before mnttab went in-kernel?[01:41:58] <Andys^> no[01:42:06] <Andys^> opensolaris, big zpool that wasn't shut down cleanly[01:42:22] <Andys^> i had a 10TB pool, the disk lights flashed for about 10 minutes during bootup[01:42:29] <Andys^> before it finally continued booting and mounted the zpool[01:42:51] <RoyK^> 10 minutes is a stroll in the park[01:43:07] <RoyK^> I had a server going on for several hours[01:43:14] <Andys^> right[01:43:14] <Andys^> :/[01:43:46] <relling> hmmm... I did that just the other day on 27TB and it mounted in about a second[01:43:47] <RoyK^> a test box with only 500 gigs of data stayed unusable for hours until I killed it[01:44:05] <Andys^> doesn't happen on every boot, relling[01:44:16] <Andys^> seems to happen if it was busy doing "something" when power was yanked[01:44:25] <Meths> Was there an on-disk zfs format change from 2009.06 to b134?[01:44:25] <Andys^> but it hasn't happened to me since installation of ZIL device[01:44:28] <RoyK^> relling: I have a 27TB box and it works well[01:44:33] <relling> ah, ok, I did try on the new moon... full moon performance may vary :-)[01:45:05] *** rogue780 has joined #opensolaris[01:45:32] <relling> Meths: yes, there was about 10 or so changes to the zpool format[01:45:51] <miltondsilva> hmm I'm having a bit of trouble getting a pci wireless card to work[01:45:52] <rogue780> I'm not trying to flame or anything, but what can Solaris/OpenSolaris offer that BSD or Linux cannot?[01:46:00] <miltondsilva> it has a rt2800 chipset[01:46:19] <Andys^> rogue780: ZFS[01:46:22] <hunter> rogue780: zfs and zones[01:46:45] *** Tpenta1 has joined #opensolaris[01:46:49] <miltondsilva> and when I try to update de driver to support the card with update_drv -a -i '"pciVVVV,DDDD"' rwn[01:46:52] <hunter> possibly better NFS performance[01:47:16] <relling> rogue780: would you like a BMW, or is your Ford Focus just fine?[01:47:24] <miltondsilva> it says... successfully added to system but failed to attach[01:47:39] <hunter> I wouldn't go that far[01:47:49] *** Stellar has quit IRC[01:48:06] *** Tpenta1 has quit IRC[01:48:14] <relling> car analogies were a lot easier when Scott was around...[01:48:25] <Meths> relling: I'm on b134 and after mirroring rpool it's telling me the format is old and I should update, I'm running 22 and the website says 23 is in b135.[01:48:29] <m4rku5> haha BMW owns :D[01:48:35] <rogue780> relling, it from what I've seen, there is a larger suite of software and more developers on linux than there is on Solaris, and as for ZFS, doesn't XFS beat it out? And quite frankly, I love my KIA Sportage[01:48:54] <Meths> relling: Is it best to upgrade or leave it? Why am I getting 135 stuff being pushed at me in 134?[01:49:00] <forquare> If anyone has any experience with zones, especially using sysidcfg files, could you take a look at my post over on the discussions? http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=126898 Many thanks :)[01:49:10] <tsoome> does xfs have checksum and self healing?[01:49:48] <tsoome> does xfs free you from burden of volume management and partitioning?[01:49:50] <relling> Meths: I don't tend to upgrade the pool every time, just ignore the messages[01:50:04] <rogue780> tsoome, not sure. I was looking at speed comparisons mainly[01:50:10] <Meths> relling: Okay, thanks.[01:50:20] <tsoome> note that zfs is still not the answer for every possible problem[01:50:27] <JeremyK> sure it is![01:50:36] <Andys^> rogue780: ZFS is also a volume manager built in, and has ability to take cheap snapshots and rollback and clone the snapshots...[01:50:40] <tsoome> there are use cases when zfs will perform bad[01:50:47] <CosmicDJ> or not at all ;)[01:50:58] * jbk still remembers a friend tearing his hair out because xfs commands were failing with a strange error....[01:51:00] <JeremyK> tsoome: yea, I'm well aware of some of those use cases unfortunately :([01:51:06] <rogue780> Andys^, did not know that.[01:51:08] <jbk> turns out he installed the 32 bit commands on a 64bit kernel[01:51:21] <jbk> i found such a failure mode bizzare =][01:51:29] <tsoome> but then again, its evolving and quite fast[01:51:39] <JeremyK> yea the userquota stuff is very well done[01:51:44] *** stukreit_ has quit IRC[01:52:00] *** g4lt-mordant has quit IRC[01:52:52] <rogue780> how well does lxrun work? bit performance hit? I have an extra box here that I am thinking of loading Solaris on, but I want to try running some linux binaries that I have[01:53:16] <tsoome> from my point of view - i like my data to be safe, checksum will help to prove it is. an no other fs can do that.[01:53:25] <JeremyK> I have not had any sort of luck with lx branded zones[01:53:31] <tsoome> use lx zones, not lxrun[01:53:36] <JeremyK> I tried it with a stock debian install and apache wouldn't respond[01:53:43] <m4rku5> tsoome, btrfs has checksums too iirc ;)[01:54:02] <Andys^> yeah, rogue780: btrfs is being written to copy some of ZFS's features for linux[01:54:10] <CosmicDJ> dragonflybsd's hammer has checksums, too[01:54:15] <tsoome> well, if you can trust your data to brtfs, go ahead:)[01:54:26] <m4rku5> tsoome, i wouldnt trust my data to btrfs lol :D[01:54:51] <Andys^> the most important thing though is integrated checksums with the volume manager means it can choose which redundant copy of the data is correct, and repair the incorrect one. as opposed to hammer which just tells you 'yeah its broken'[01:55:30] <tsoome> and yes, im sure we see those technologies copied into most major filesystems in next few years.[01:55:59] *** cybernd has quit IRC[01:56:24] <rogue780> Another question, what is the general opinion of how Oracle's change to the Solarlis license will affect OpenSolaris?[01:56:44] *** knight_ has joined #opensolaris[01:56:50] <tsoome> rogue780: are you using linux?[01:56:58] <alanc> OpenSolaris has always had a different license than Solaris[01:57:51] <rogue780> alanc, this box here is windows 7, the one above my head is ubuntu and the one in the closet to my left is slackware[01:58:05] <rogue780> err my last to tsoome[01:58:12] <alanc> I figured that[01:58:31] <alanc> I'd keep slackware locked in the closet too though[01:58:43] <Andys^> rogue780: imo, opensolaris is the best option for building a SAN/NAS/storage appliance[01:58:50] <Andys^> lol[01:58:50] <CosmicDJ> btw, quite funny wikipedias NTFS page it has dedup support but doing a google search for that returns nothing sane...[01:58:56] <rogue780> alanc, but for a while, Solaris has been free as in beer. Now Oracle has taken that away freeness away[01:58:57] <tsoome> so you are using linux. despite the gpl is quite restrictive and its viral license? and you are worried about how oracle is licensing stuff?:P[01:59:11] *** hunter has quit IRC[01:59:20] <rogue780> tsoome, oracle is making Solaris a 90 day trial[01:59:26] <tsoome> so?[01:59:44] <rogue780> I just think that might drive people away from the platform is all[01:59:49] <tsoome> if you need to use it, you agree with license and continue to use it.[02:00:01] <rogue780> tsoome, and pay money[02:00:26] <alanc> Does RedHat charging for RHEL drive people away from Fedora?[02:00:40] <tsoome> dont you think those developers wanna eat something?[02:00:46] <johannes> alanc: yes, they all use centos or ubuntu :-p[02:00:51] <alanc> it is getting near dinnner time...[02:00:56] <rogue780> johannes, exactly[02:01:22] <CosmicDJ> is HP-SuX free? AintUniX? OSX?[02:01:27] <johannes> rogue780: I have no fears about (Open)Solaris[02:01:38] *** W0rmDrink has joined #opensolaris[02:01:44] <DesiJat> u have to pay to even say AIX[02:01:45] <DesiJat> fuck.[02:01:48] <DesiJat> now i have to pay.[02:02:02] <tsoome> if you dont wanna pay for yoursoftware, you get what you bought. if you are happy with that - what is the problem?[02:02:41] <rogue780> tsoome, nothing. I just figured Oracle's decisions would have made bigger waves here, and I was merely trying to guage them[02:02:52] <m4rku5> tsoome, well the difference is between those different "free" options ;) a free CentOS/debian can get you security updates without switching to unstable software as well ;)[02:03:06] <alanc> they've been discussed to death on the opensolaris-discuss mailing list/forum[02:03:30] <tsoome> well. we could argue how one can call debian "stable" ;)[02:04:06] <tsoome> but anyhow, i guess oracle is trying to make some money here. cant blame them. if it does not work out, something will change.[02:04:12] <tsoome> only time will tell[02:04:26] <alanc> you get security updates for CentOS & Debian because the community members make them available instead of whining that there's no corporate sponsor paying people to put them together, test them and distribute them - the opensolaris community has the same option if it wants it[02:04:58] <tsoome> and its already working if im correct[02:05:11] <tsoome> at least in some extent.[02:05:19] <richlowe> alanc: But, but, that would mean *doing stuff*![02:05:28] <m4rku5> tsoome, already working? is there any "stable+security" distro based on opensolaris? ;)[02:05:59] <tsoome> people are providing fixes etc.[02:06:28] <m4rku5> tsoome, well what i wanted to say is: with linux you can have a stable+security patches for free which you afaik cant with *solaris - which is why I (for non enterprise solutions; Im talking about home/really small business/non-profit stuff here) I'd still prefer linux (well maybe + an opensolaris fileserver :P)[02:06:40] <Meths> alanc: Is that an option? Could there be a security repo (a la debian) for the stable /release hosted on pkg?[02:06:41] <tsoome> solaris is not linux (and hopefully will never be). don expect it work exactly like linux.[02:06:50] <Nemesis> im wooped[02:06:58] <Nemesis> any ideas how to install this usb card??[02:07:08] <Nemesis> it dont do nothing...[02:07:14] <Nemesis> nada...zilch..zero[02:07:24] *** nikolam_ has joined #opensolaris[02:07:46] <richlowe> Meths: doesn't have to be hosted on pkg.o.o, probably actually beneficial for such a thing not to be[02:07:48] <Nemesis> i finally got it on its own interrupt, but whatever you plug into it is not detected[02:07:50] <tsoome> m4rku5: its you and your opinion. i have met linux few times and no, i would not prefer it to anything.[02:08:02] <richlowe> You could host it wherever.[02:08:04] <Nemesis> and if you boot in normal mode with something plugged into it...the machine freezes at boot[02:08:09] *** achester has quit IRC[02:08:29] *** g4lt-mordant has joined #opensolaris[02:08:35] <rogue780> m4rku5, so you would recommend opensolaris for a fileserver? I have a via 1ghz fanless board and a 500gb drive that I'm using as a samba server now. Would Open Solaris be a good fit for that?[02:08:35] <Nemesis> if you boot with the livecd..it will boot, but it wont pick up any devices[02:08:36] <alanc> Meths: it could certainly be set up and hosted on another site like genunix.org - I have no idea about hosting it pkg.opensolaris.org itself[02:08:37] <richlowe> The hard part would be finding people willing to do something so utterly boring and unrewarding.[02:08:38] <tsoome> i would go for freebds for example;)[02:08:43] <tsoome> freebsd*[02:08:59] <richlowe> especially given the assumed certainty of people *then* whining about the speed with which updates were provided, what was in them, and the phase of the damn moon.[02:09:02] <Nemesis> VT6212l card...[02:09:09] <rogue780> I'm just looking to broaden my horizons a bit and be at least familiar with another system[02:09:15] <Nemesis> linux dont like this card either[02:09:35] <m4rku5> rogue780, depends; opensolaris needs quite a bit of ram[02:09:37] *** fleyta has joined #opensolaris[02:09:37] <alanc> richlowe: but just think of all the rewarding email you'd get? "Mozilla released firefox 3.6.foo ten minutes ago! Why haven't you lazy fuckers pushed a new version to the pkg repo yet?!?!?!"[02:09:46] <Meths> lol[02:09:51] <tsoome> Nemesis: thats bad sign[02:09:55] <rogue780> m4rku5, ah. I've only got 512mb in it[02:09:56] *** q5sys has joined #opensolaris[02:10:06] <Nemesis> well..people have gotten the card to work in ubuntu[02:10:20] <Meths> richlowe: Judging by the lack of speed/activity around jucr at the moment I think you're right about finding people[02:10:21] <m4rku5> rogue780, might be enough ;) I guess youd have to do benchmarks to see whats besser for you :P[02:10:30] <tsoome> rogue780: solaris may not be the good choice for that amount of resources.[02:10:37] <fleyta> alanc: Send him a mail: 'Do it yourself, lazy fnucker!'[02:10:42] <Nemesis> but..uhh...opensol does not seem to wanna install a driver for the card[02:10:46] *** nikolam has quit IRC[02:10:50] * odyi wants an updates repo for opensolaris that isn't contracted even though he has a contract.[02:10:52] <Nemesis> it sees it fine...it just wont do anything else..[02:11:18] *** ingenthr1 has quit IRC[02:11:19] *** ingenthr has joined #opensolaris[02:11:44] <Nemesis> it took forever to get the thing on its own interrupt[02:11:52] <Nemesis> i finally got that accomplished...[02:11:52] *** miltondsilva has quit IRC[02:12:14] <Nemesis> all usb crap in the bios is turned off[02:12:14] <rogue780> oh well. back to the grindstone[02:12:38] <m4rku5> good night[02:12:39] *** FrequencyParado1 has joined #opensolaris[02:13:11] <FrequencyParado1> Anyone know how to get Python CGI working with Apache worker on OpenSolaris? :-D[02:13:19] <snuff-work> nice nehalem EX launched today..[02:13:55] <Nemesis> if you plug a device into the card...opensol will boot..plug a device in..forget it ..it will freeze everytime[02:14:10] <Nemesis> opensol wont boot if you plug a device in[02:14:14] <Nemesis> my bad[02:14:21] <Nemesis> unplug it..and it will[02:14:32] *** stevel has quit IRC[02:15:03] * randw 's cat just pressed alt-space x and maximized irc window...[02:16:25] *** FrequencyParado1 is now known as FrequencyParadox[02:17:54] <victori> how often are you supposed to scrub your pools?[02:17:57] <Nemesis> why is it that uhh...when i do a zpool list...my pool shows up as 1.82T, but when I browse to it in nautilus it only tells me there is 1.3T available?[02:18:28] <devians[w]> zpool tells you the numbers in TB, zfs tells you the numbers in TiB[02:18:33] <victori> zfs list shows without parity data[02:18:50] <Nemesis> actually nautilus tells me there is 1371.1GB available[02:18:52] <devians[w]> oh, yes sorry, victori is right[02:18:56] <Nemesis> which is around 500gb short[02:19:03] <Nemesis> where is my other 500gb[02:19:12] <victori> http://letsgetdugg.com/2010/03/30/automated-zfs-snapshots/ wrote a ruby script to take daily snapshots; something that works outside of solaris. ;-)[02:19:28] <Nemesis> wait a sec...i allocated 180g[02:19:33] <Nemesis> so that speaks for that[02:20:39] <Nemesis> where is the rest of my hd space[02:20:46] <Nemesis> i dont get it[02:20:57] <relling> randw's cat ate it :-)[02:21:21] <Nemesis> im missing 500gb folkz..where did it go?[02:21:32] <JeremyK> I ate it[02:21:34] <Nemesis> the pool sais its allocated..[02:21:46] <Nemesis> but nautilus dont see it[02:21:47] <JeremyK> Nemesis: snapshot.[02:21:59] <Nemesis> snapshot?[02:22:02] <JeremyK> yea[02:22:06] <JeremyK> zfs has snapshots[02:22:15] <Nemesis> ahh[02:24:45] <Nemesis> so basically jeremy you are telling me the space is really there?[02:24:49] <Nemesis> its just being reported wrong[02:25:00] <JeremyK> nope.[02:25:07] <JeremyK> I'm saying it's probably tied up in a snapshot somewhere[02:25:17] *** fleyta has quit IRC[02:25:18] <Nemesis> ok..how do i get it back[02:25:26] <JeremyK> delete the snapshot?[02:25:28] <Nemesis> i never even knew it was gone[02:25:29] <JeremyK> zfs list -r -t snapshot[02:25:40] <JeremyK> oh wait.[02:25:46] <JeremyK> sorry, just saw your earlier message[02:25:49] <JeremyK> 17:21 < Nemesis> why is it that uhh...when i do a zpool list...my pool shows up as 1.82T, but when I browse to it in nautilus it only tells me there is 1.3T available?[02:25:56] <JeremyK> is it a raidz or raidz2 by chance?[02:26:00] <Nemesis> raidz[02:26:19] <JeremyK> ok. yea, that's because there's the redundancy overhead thing[02:26:28] <Nemesis> when i did that zfs list comand you gave me it only shows 202mb used[02:26:32] <Nemesis> 3.30G refer[02:26:34] <JeremyK> right[02:26:42] <JeremyK> even on an empty pool there will be a difference[02:26:54] <JeremyK> i can't remember the exact answer, but, one sec[02:28:10] <Nemesis> redundancy overhead[02:28:25] *** sergiusens has quit IRC[02:30:29] *** sergiusens has joined #opensolaris[02:30:35] *** reolik has joined #opensolaris[02:32:11] *** reolik has quit IRC[02:34:27] *** randw has quit IRC[02:34:31] *** randw has joined #opensolaris[02:35:24] <relling> zpool list shows all space, zfs list (and userland tools) show available space[02:35:56] *** bubbva has quit IRC[02:36:27] <relling> http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Community+Group+zfs/faq#HWhydoesntthespacethatisreportedbythezpoollistcommandandthezfslistcommandmatch[02:36:38] <robinbowes> I just migrated an snv_127 box to 134b (actually, NexentaStor 3.0) and my NFS user-mapping seems to have broken[02:37:19] <Nemesis> thats the thing relling, I have not used any space[02:37:48] <Nemesis> zfs list reports that, that particular pool has 152k used[02:37:56] <Nemesis> 1.34T available[02:38:11] <Nemesis> there is a total of 2.1T of hard disk space in the box[02:38:23] <Nemesis> i have not used one bit of it yet[02:38:51] <Nemesis> the other pool "rpool" has 105GB available[02:38:51] <relling> what size of disks? 4x 500 GB?[02:38:58] <Nemesis> exactly relling[02:39:07] <Nemesis> i have 4x500 1x120[02:39:15] <Nemesis> the 120 has solaris on it[02:39:19] <Nemesis> thats rpool[02:39:27] <relling> ok, that is (3/4)*500GB with disk marketing adjustment[02:39:36] <Nemesis> shiloh is my other pool it sais it only has 1.34T available[02:39:54] *** aszeszo has quit IRC[02:40:02] <Nemesis> so i am missing 500GB[02:40:24] <relling> robinbowes: do you use LDAP or another network name service?[02:40:38] <robinbowes> Nope[02:40:59] <relling> Nemesis: you aren't missing it, it is accounted for in the pool as space for redundancy (raidz parity)[02:41:28] <relling> robinbowes: ok, then you need to reconcile the /etc/passwd and probably /etc/shadow files[02:41:42] <robinbowes> Yes, have done that[02:41:51] <robinbowes> This was working with snv_127[02:42:07] <relling> hmmm... so what are you looking at that doesn't know users?[02:42:20] <robinbowes> I think I may have found something... NFSMAPID_DOMAIN= is not set[02:42:36] <relling> ah, ok, nfsv4 claims another victim[02:42:38] <Nemesis> ok[02:42:44] <Nemesis> so its there..but not there..[02:42:50] <relling> bingo![02:43:09] <Nemesis> i mean is it actual space I can still use?[02:43:14] *** q5sys has quit IRC[02:43:14] <Nemesis> do I still have access to it?[02:43:24] <Nemesis> where did..it..go[02:43:29] <relling> it will be used for you, if that makes sense[02:43:29] <relling> a[02:43:48] <Nemesis> i think I understand[02:44:00] <relling> actually, it is more like an expected reserve for parity because the actual parity needed is unknown until you write the data[02:44:04] <Nemesis> my problem lies in the ignorance of zfs[02:45:14] <Nemesis> ic[02:45:23] *** q5sys has joined #opensolaris[02:45:56] <relling> space accounting in a dynamic, compressing, deduping file system is a mental challenge[02:46:03] *** achester has joined #opensolaris[02:46:55] <Nemesis> im gonna watch a bunch of video tutorials on zfs, but I had to get this machine up and running first..its been down 5 days now[02:47:11] <Nemesis> so its up finally...with a few quirks[02:48:45] <robinbowes> relling: working now[02:48:49] *** InTheWings has quit IRC[02:48:58] *** zurh has joined #opensolaris[02:50:00] <relling> robinbowes: cool, have fun[02:50:18] <robinbowes> Oh I am - LDAP next :|[02:50:49] * jbk hands robinbowes asprin[02:51:06] *** tosh has quit IRC[02:51:49] <robinbowes> asprin? You're kidding, right? I've smoked 6 crack pipes in 20 minutes and it hasn't dulled the pain[02:53:34] <oninoshiko> couldf be worse.. im dealing ith verizon[02:56:16] <lewellyn> sstallion_work: on smrt? yes, it's on the agenda when i figure out wht the future of its database will be[02:56:21] <CIA-21> Valerie Bubb Fenwick <Valerie.Fenwick at Oracle dot COM>: 6939103 libpkcs11 is too chatty when kcfd isn't running[02:57:58] *** achester has quit IRC[02:58:43] * lewellyn read that as kfcd[02:58:44] <victori> has anyone run opensolaris in virtualbox to power raw disks?[02:58:47] <lewellyn> i must be hungry[02:58:54] *** falconn1 has joined #opensolaris[02:59:01] <lewellyn> victori: it's possible, per the docs. i've not tried very hard.[02:59:16] <victori> I am just wondering if it can lead to zpool corruption[02:59:48] <JeremyK> farting wrong can lead to zpool corruption[03:00:42] <Nemesis> is there a list of supported opensolaris hardware?[03:01:02] <oninoshiko> there is, but it's rather incomplete[03:01:11] <Nemesis> as it should be[03:01:51] <lewellyn> smrt: explain hcl[03:01:52] <smrt> Hardware Compatibility List. Everything that is known to work is here. If it is not here, do not keep asking if we know if it works. :) http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/ (See also: device driver utility)[03:02:07] <Nemesis> gotcha[03:02:22] <oninoshiko> the device driver utility is better, if you have access to the hardware to test[03:02:35] <lewellyn> that's why a see also[03:03:03] <lewellyn> i kind of expect people will figure out quickly that smrt's a bot and that the see also means that there's more information in the see also if they're inclined to find out more.[03:03:41] <iFire> smrt: expain zfs[03:03:43] <iFire> :([03:04:20] <lewellyn> you typoed ;)[03:04:21] <oninoshiko> smrt: explain zfs[03:04:22] <smrt> ZFS is the groundbreakingly awesome new copy-on-write filesystem from Sun. It self-heals, uses storage pools, implements software RAID, has built-in compression, does snapshots, and has native backup tools. It is included in recent Solaris and OpenSolaris versions. See http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zfs/ (See also: zfs boot faq, zfs best practices, arc, arc summary, zilstat) (Also, /msg smrt search zfs) No, it doesn't slice, dice, or julienn[03:04:52] <oninoshiko> lewellyn: shhh... i was going to let iFire think smrt just didn't like him/her[03:05:15] <lewellyn> no, poor smrt comes across as too fickle as it is[03:05:27] <iFire> smrt: explain universe[03:05:28] <smrt> Um. I seem to not know anything about universe...[03:05:34] *** vraa has joined #opensolaris[03:05:36] <iFire> smrt: explain oracle[03:05:37] <smrt> Um. I seem to not know anything about oracle...[03:05:46] <iFire> I'll stop now[03:05:57] * iFire wants http://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/system/2U/2022/AS-2022G-URF.cfm[03:05:59] <oninoshiko> you can also msg smrt[03:06:05] <lewellyn> smrt: hi[03:06:06] <smrt> Hi, I'm smrt. I try to be a helpful bot. For more information: /msg smrt help[03:07:09] <iFire> who's interestd in 12 "Magny-Cours" 6100 Opterons?[03:07:41] *** wdp__ has quit IRC[03:08:06] <lewellyn> certainly not i[03:08:14] <lewellyn> i still don't even have a nehalem ;)[03:10:24] *** achester has joined #opensolaris[03:14:56] <Meths> lewellyn: Ah, there you are. Finally got there with gxmessage then - saw it in pending.[03:15:18] <lewellyn> yeah i was just about to fire up a vm to install it in[03:15:23] <Meths> lewellyn: Who do you have to get to know to get a package validated?[03:16:02] <lewellyn> email sw-porters-discuss? if you got hidden away by the roboporter spam, it's probable that no one's seen it[03:16:57] *** chendy has joined #opensolaris[03:17:22] <alanc> iFire: smrt is case sensitive it appears[03:17:24] <alanc> smrt: explain Oracle[03:17:25] <smrt> See http://www.sun.com/acquisition/company.jsp[03:17:35] <alanc> since that's been there for a while[03:19:12] <Meths> lewellyn: Yeah, guess I'll fire off an email. Not lost though, first entry on review.[03:19:14] <oninoshiko> be sure to include a link, it helps[03:19:25] *** Odin- has quit IRC[03:19:43] <Meths> A link to the review? Sure.[03:25:23] *** purserj has quit IRC[03:25:50] *** zenjuzu has quit IRC[03:26:16] *** sergiusens has quit IRC[03:28:01] *** comay has quit IRC[03:32:51] *** setheus has quit IRC[03:34:17] *** setheus has joined #opensolaris[03:35:04] <devians[w]> *laughs maniacially* internet sleuthing has produced this dudes manifest files for vbox headless service[03:35:08] <devians[w]> hell, yes.[03:35:23] <devians[w]> now to wait for the other guy's server to unfuck so i can compare and improve[03:37:29] <Nemesis> currently no one has access to my zpool directory but root, how do I change perms so other users can access it[03:37:44] <bda> chmod?[03:37:46] *** zurh has left #opensolaris[03:37:59] <Nemesis> tried that[03:38:08] <Nemesis> chmod 666 foldername[03:38:12] *** JDuke128 has quit IRC[03:38:13] <Nemesis> permission denied[03:38:17] <devians[w]> pfexec[03:38:21] *** W0rmDrink has quit IRC[03:38:31] <bda> Directories have to be executable.[03:38:34] *** purserj has joined #opensolaris[03:38:38] <bda> 666 is rw.[03:38:43] <Nemesis> correct[03:38:52] <Nemesis> oh[03:38:57] <Nemesis> 777 then[03:39:04] <bda> You actually want 555.[03:39:04] <Nemesis> thats full access[03:39:09] <Nemesis> hmm[03:39:17] <bda> But maybe you should not be using the octals if you don't understand them.[03:39:44] <Nemesis> newp..permission denied[03:39:47] <Nemesis> weird[03:41:48] <Nemesis> chmod -R 555 dirname[03:41:57] <Nemesis> still cant write to it[03:43:39] <Nemesis> 777[03:43:45] <Nemesis> r/w/e[03:43:55] *** dunc has joined #opensolaris[03:44:18] <Nemesis> thx[03:44:19] <Nemesis> ;)[03:47:15] *** vraa has quit IRC[03:48:28] *** vraa has joined #opensolaris[03:51:46] <devians[w]> Nemesis, are you privileged? ie in su or using pfexec?[03:52:28] <Nemesis> dont think so[03:52:40] <Nemesis> oh well...su I am[03:52:51] <Nemesis> im not quite familiar with pfexec yet[03:52:59] <Nemesis> ill have to do some reading up on it[03:59:25] *** jdoe has joined #opensolaris[04:00:28] <Nemesis> from the lease to the Greatest they are all the same to God[04:00:34] <Nemesis> least rater[04:00:37] <Nemesis> rather[04:01:58] <Gman_> anyone else noticing odd things happening with the psarc-ext bridge?[04:02:09] * Gman_ seems to be getting mails twice[04:02:12] *** Gman_ is now known as Gman[04:02:13] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Gman[04:03:27] <jdoe> this may be a dumb question... how stable are the dev builds? If I'm building an nfs server, say... am I better off with 2009.06 or a dev build with whatever improvements/fixes there may be there?[04:03:52] <Nemesis> go with the dev build jdoe[04:03:59] <Nemesis> i made that mistake earlier[04:04:05] <Nemesis> in fact last night[04:04:11] <Nemesis> this is not like linux[04:04:12] *** JDuke128 has joined #opensolaris[04:04:16] <jdoe> in what way was it a mistake?[04:04:35] <Nemesis> opensolaris is more solid and up to date in the dev builds than the stable[04:04:41] <Nemesis> its like the other way around[04:05:14] <Nemesis> my take on it was, well the latest stable is the best way to go....[04:05:16] <Nemesis> Wrong![04:05:25] <Nemesis> i had all kinds of issues with smb[04:05:36] <Nemesis> got the dev latest, and it all worked out[04:06:14] <oninoshiko> if stable does what you want, I would recommend it, but if it doesn't dev very well might.[04:06:29] <devians[w]> Nemesis, smb or cifs[04:06:36] <Nemesis> smb[04:06:44] <Nemesis> 2009.06 is snv_111b[04:06:50] <Nemesis> and that is buggy for smb[04:07:00] <Nemesis> among other things[04:07:41] <Nemesis> i did not play with cifs devians..so I cannot tell you about that[04:07:46] <devians[w]> as far as i was aware, smb is kinda deprecated in favour of cifs now[04:08:11] <Nemesis> sol still uses smb..[04:08:25] <Nemesis> beats me[04:08:45] <Nemesis> all i know..is that more than one person today said that snv_111b was a buggy version[04:08:50] <Nemesis> and that is 2009.06[04:08:59] <Nemesis> i had to blast and reinstall it[04:09:32] <oninoshiko> for some things it does contain bugs, for some it works fine. I happen to be on it right now[04:09:33] <rawtaz_> blast :)[04:11:02] <Nemesis> [05:43] <MGSsancho> yeah ther are lots of bugs in 111b[04:11:03] <Nemesis> [05:43] <MGSsancho> expecially with samba[04:11:35] *** Edgeman has quit IRC[04:12:45] <Nemesis> how do I get 100mbps throughput over ftp on my network[04:12:55] <Nemesis> right now im getting about 20ish[04:13:05] <alanc> install a gigabit link[04:13:23] *** c00p has quit IRC[04:13:30] <Nemesis> i have 10/100 cards...they should do 100mbs[04:13:59] <rawtaz_> are your links negotiated successfully then? so they really run at that speed[04:14:24] <Nemesis> to my knowledge...these were autoconfigured by their OS's respectively[04:14:51] <Nemesis> opensol not autoconfigure its 10/100 nics to do 100mbps throughput?[04:15:13] <rawtaz_> i just know that sometimes various equipment dont successfully negotiate like expected. so its one thing to check if it doesnt perform like it should :)[04:15:13] <Nemesis> i got the same throughput on my prior linux server too[04:15:22] <alanc> 100 megabit links can't transfer 100 megabits of data per second - have to allow overhead for frames/packet headers/etc. (plus don't ftp clients usually report in megabytes not megabits?)[04:16:02] <Nemesis> MB/s[04:21:08] *** Edgeman has joined #opensolaris[04:22:15] <Nemesis> no question is a stupid one..[04:22:17] <Nemesis> ;)[04:23:02] *** perlmongo has quit IRC[04:23:20] <Nemesis> so im getting 20 megabytes throughput on the ftp[04:23:26] <Nemesis> that would be equal to...[04:23:55] <Nemesis> Megabyte per second[04:23:56] <Nemesis> A megabyte per second (MB/s or MBps) is a unit of data transfer rate equal to:[04:23:56] <Nemesis> * 8,000,000 bits per second, or[04:23:56] <Nemesis> * 1,000,000 bytes per second, or[04:23:56] <Nemesis> * 1,000 kilobytes per second, or[04:23:56] <Nemesis> * 8 megabits per second.[04:24:17] <Nemesis> Mebibit per second[04:24:17] <Nemesis> A mebibit per second (Mibit/s or Mib/s) is a unit of data transfer rate equal to:[04:24:17] <Nemesis> * 1,048,576 bits per second or[04:24:17] <Nemesis> * 1,024 kibibits per second.[04:24:44] <jamesd2> Nemesis, that is enough flooding thanks[04:25:05] *** falconn1 has left #opensolaris[04:25:37] <Nemesis> wrong paste..[04:25:43] <Nemesis> meant to paste megabit[04:26:33] <rawtaz_> are you getting 20 megabytes throughput on a 100 mega*bit* connection?[04:26:40] <Nemesis> yes[04:26:44] <Nemesis> roughly[04:26:54] <rawtaz_> id be quite happy with that :)[04:27:05] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jamesd[04:27:14] <Nemesis> i have my units of measurement quite messed up[04:27:19] <jdoe> Nemesis: I really mostly need safe zfs (I imagine it's safe by now no matter the version...), nfs and smb. Anything else is a bonus.[04:27:30] <rawtaz_> for starters, each byte takes up eight bits. so there you have 80 mbit per 10 mbyte[04:27:40] <rawtaz_> and then there's some overhead to it as well[04:27:43] <Nemesis> k[04:27:49] <chendy> a byte is 8 time to bit.[04:27:59] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jamesd[04:28:08] <rawtaz_> so unless im thinking totally wrong here, 20 mbyte per second is really dang good for 100 mbit :D[04:28:32] *** Aria has joined #opensolaris[04:28:32] <Nemesis> ;)[04:28:37] <Nemesis> well..nothing to change then...[04:28:41] <Nemesis> cept my mind[04:28:45] <Nemesis> :P[04:29:09] <rawtaz_> well i could be wrong[04:29:14] <rawtaz_> but i think not[04:29:23] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jamesd2[04:29:32] <Nemesis> 1024 k in a meg[04:29:40] <Nemesis> they rounded it off to 1000[04:29:53] *** system5 has joined #opensolaris[04:30:02] *** system5 has quit IRC[04:30:36] *** Sloar has left #opensolaris[04:32:24] <Nemesis> 1megabyte is = to 8 megabits[04:32:41] <rawtaz_> yeah, raw data[04:33:01] <Nemesis> 8x12 would be 96[04:33:09] <Nemesis> so yea..im getting what I should be getting[04:33:21] <Nemesis> your right..actually im over..im doing better than what I should[04:33:22] *** system5 has joined #opensolaris[04:33:53] <Nemesis> feels so lonely being a newb[04:33:53] <rawtaz_> yeah[04:33:59] <Nemesis> but oh well.[04:34:00] <dizko> since there's no /usr/ucb/ps in opensolaris, what's the right way to get full arg lists on process?[04:34:01] <rawtaz_> probably the ftp software not measuring correctly[04:34:01] <richlowe> it's not easy being green?[04:34:10] <system5> there is a /usr/ucb/ps in opensolaris[04:34:11] <rawtaz_> maybe its measuring overhead too or something[04:34:23] <dizko> oh, what package installs that?[04:34:31] <system5> think like a Debian-ish type person, you need to "apt-get" or "pkg install" it[04:34:58] <system5> type in: pkg search -r ucb[04:35:12] <Nemesis> "too my knowledge" - opensol uses pkg[04:35:19] <Nemesis> not apt[04:35:25] <system5> give a man a fish and he eats for a day... teach a man to fish...[04:35:30] <dizko> yea i think i found it, SUNWucbt maybe[04:35:32] <system5> no I meant, think Debian like[04:35:34] <system5> no[04:35:37] <system5> it's not that one[04:35:40] <system5> ok I'll just tell you[04:35:45] <dizko> ill find it[04:35:48] <system5> pkg info -r SUNWscp[04:35:57] <system5> what's your output for that command?[04:36:08] <Nemesis> who?[04:36:12] <Nemesis> who you talkn to?[04:36:21] <system5> I'm talking to the guy who can't find /usr/ucb[04:36:27] <system5> typing in: pkg install SUNWscp installs it[04:36:53] <system5> he was saying that there's no /usr/ucb in OpenSolaris, and my reply was: think Debian-like you need to install it[04:37:00] <system5> with a network based package manager[04:37:08] <system5> i.e. pkg install or apt-get or yum install[04:37:20] *** boyd_ has quit IRC[04:37:30] <dizko> i understand how pkg works, and to be honest i didnt checkb efore i said that, but awhile ago i had looked and couldnt find it and i thought i saw someone mentioning it was deprecated and not included[04:37:35] <dizko> so my bad for not double checking[04:37:38] <system5> BTW, is it just me, or is #Solaris not online for IRC[04:37:59] <system5> you're not bad for double checking, there's nothing wrong with not knowing something[04:38:01] *** boyd has quit IRC[04:38:23] <system5> I was trying to give you the methodology for finding stuff in general instead of just the specific command for this one particular package[04:38:24] <richlowe> pkg:/compatibility/ucb contains /usr/ucb/ps, but Casper made /usr/bin/ps accept UCB arguments early last year.[04:38:34] <system5> yeah[04:38:51] <dizko> pkg contents doesnt seem to have -r support[04:38:53] <system5> on OpenSolaris 2009.06, /usr/bin/ps takes BSD arguments[04:39:10] <system5> like Linux does and like IBM's AIX does (I think)[04:39:13] <richlowe> dizko: Not sure about in 2009.06, but it does in more recent bits.[04:39:21] <system5> hey, is it just me or is the #solaris channel not working?[04:39:50] <dizko> $ pfexec pkg contents -r SUNWscp[04:39:51] <dizko> PATH[04:39:58] <dizko> all i get back is the header[04:40:01] <richlowe> SUNWscp was renamed to compatibility/ucb[04:40:03] <richlowe> it contains no files[04:40:14] <system5> dang that renaming stuff, you guys are going to break all my scripts[04:40:16] <richlowe> the old name is just a dependency on the new one.[04:40:19] *** edude03 has joined #opensolaris[04:40:21] <dizko> col thanks richlowe that works[04:40:22] <system5> that's what I get for using OpenSolaris instead of Solaris 10[04:40:23] <edude03> Hello everyone[04:40:27] <system5> and being an early adopter[04:40:43] <edude03> lewellyn you here?[04:41:10] <system5> BTW, one of my associates is trying to buy a bunch of Solaris / OpenSolaris contracts from sun and he is having one heck of a difficult time[04:41:33] <dizko> probably because sun doesnt exist ;)[04:41:39] <system5> where in the new Oracle page do we find pricing for buying different levels of Solaris / OpenSolaris support contracts[04:41:59] <system5> assuming that you guys still want to take our money for this product and not run it as a charity ;-)[04:42:22] <system5> if I remember correct, basic support is between $300 and $400 a year, am I right?[04:43:00] <system5> we're building ZFS storage servers for several major universities and would be willing to kick some of the money back to Sun / Oracle / Snorcle if you guys will oblige us[04:43:22] <system5> by having a web page somewhere where it says the cost (so we can e-mail the link to clients) and then click on it to buy support[04:43:58] <system5> I have an exising OpenSolaris contract that I want to renew as well[04:44:04] *** JDuke128 has quit IRC[04:44:40] <dizko> there are support contracts for opensolaris?[04:44:45] <system5> yeah[04:44:50] <system5> there's a support repository dizko[04:45:03] <system5> gives security patches without requiring you to use the /dev repository[04:45:13] <system5> it used to be ~ $300 a year, I think[04:45:38] <system5> to do anything now, you have to "Contact an Oracle Sales Representative" which to me is kind of lame when they could just post the price up on the web page[04:45:56] <dizko> maybe they dont want to give everyone the same price[04:45:57] <system5> why should buying OpenSolaris support be more complicated than buying a bag of Cheetos?[04:46:14] <oninoshiko> I would get a Oracle sales rep on the phone[04:46:17] <dizko> there is always a lot of overhead when companies merge[04:46:18] <system5> do I have to contact Chester the Cheetah or a Frito Lay sales representative every time I want to buy a bag of cheetos/[04:46:24] <system5> ?[04:47:18] *** iFire has quit IRC[04:47:33] <oninoshiko> system5: because frito-lay is already a subsidiary of pepsico, inc. not a company in the middle of sorting out an acquisition.[04:48:11] <system5> Sun's products are superior to IBM, but IBM's marketing peeps are such a brilliant bunch of sneaky used car salesmen ever since Louis Gerstner took over IBM and turned it in to a cracker factory[04:48:31] <Nemesis> lolz[04:48:32] *** q5sys has quit IRC[04:49:36] <system5> I was reading el Reg or some other IT web site and right there pops up some IBM ad showing a picture of some gorgeous looking server with like 10 different 2 inch SAS drives and a caption saying that I could have it for $89 or $93 a month or some low price like that[04:50:12] <system5> I had to realy restrain myself to not click through and grab two of them right then and there[04:50:49] *** iFire has joined #opensolaris[04:50:54] <oninoshiko> fine print: most of the server's hardware is not turned on. or is it one that you have to pay for the rest of you life?[04:50:57] <Macer> ugh wifi sucks for actual work[04:51:10] <system5> I know oninoshiko, you are 100% correct[04:51:17] <system5> but they are such sneaky used car salesmen[04:51:23] <system5> I almost clicked on it even though I knew better[04:51:36] <iFire> system5 what are you guys talking about?[04:51:51] <oninoshiko> now if you'll excuse me, im going to open notes and check on my email...[04:52:12] <system5> talking about how my business partner is angry[04:52:27] <system5> because he's having a hard time trying to figure out how to buy support contracts for Solaris and OpenSolaris[04:52:27] <iFire> ooh do tell[04:52:39] <Macer> :)[04:52:44] <iFire> you can't[04:52:44] <iFire> ?[04:52:53] <Macer> just find people that know how to admin it and you won't need support contracts as much[04:53:14] <system5> Well, where is the web page where they give you an actual concrete number for the price tag[04:53:20] <Macer> hiring an on-site admin and the support contract probably cost the same :)[04:53:31] <system5> which should be somewhere between $300 and $400 for basic support[04:53:43] <system5> if you don't buy support you don't get security patches, which is a big deal, especially for Solaris 10[04:53:49] <Macer> do they even give support contracts for opensolaris?[04:53:53] <system5> yes![04:53:58] <bda> You sure about that?[04:54:02] <system5> I have a support contract for opensolaris and I need to renew it[04:54:05] <system5> soon[04:54:14] <system5> look[04:54:19] <bda> It is unclear to me whether support contracts for OSOL are still being offered.[04:54:27] <bda> Not that you can buy them for S10 right now.[04:54:33] <system5> these are servers I'm building for major universities to put biocomputational data on[04:54:42] <system5> we want to use ZFS[04:54:46] <system5> I've got hard deadlines[04:54:55] <bda> Talking to Oracle?[04:55:30] <system5> why do we need to talk to Oracle? why should buying OpenSolaris support be more complicated than buying a bag of Cheetos?[04:55:42] <Macer> uhm[04:55:50] <system5> well really[04:55:51] <Macer> why do you need to talk to MS for support contracts for windows?[04:55:54] <bda> system5: A good question. Go buy a contract.[04:55:57] <system5> if I was dealing with IBM, they would just take my money[04:55:59] <Macer> :)[04:56:16] *** iFire has quit IRC[04:56:28] <bda> I managed to get a contract for S10 after they pull patches and before they pulled the online contract purchasing.[04:56:31] <bda> Thank the gods.[04:56:40] <bda> But now try to get them to take your money while they sort their shit out.[04:56:44] *** iFire has joined #opensolaris[04:56:48] *** jayne has quit IRC[04:56:51] <Macer> heh[04:57:01] *** jayne has joined #opensolaris[04:57:13] *** syamajala has joined #opensolaris[04:57:18] <system5> yeah, why did they pull online contract purchasing?[04:57:29] <bda> They're pulling it into whatever the Oracle support stuff is called.[04:57:33] <Macer> probably sorting things out after the merger[04:57:39] <system5> they're going to lose about a dozen basic support contracts because I can't buy them before my deadline[04:57:45] <Macer> you can always use a phone and call them can't you?[04:57:45] <Macer> :)[04:57:55] <system5> I guess[04:57:59] <system5> I bought my previous contracts online[04:57:59] <Macer> or is that too archaic? heh[04:58:05] <oninoshiko> seriously, let your fingers to the walking[04:58:18] <Macer> heh... well.. sometimes .. business requires actually talking to people :)[04:58:41] <oninoshiko> Macer: that used to be a slogan for the yellow pages, i think[04:58:49] <Macer> haha.. was it?[04:58:51] <bda> I've talked to people who have tried calling them up.[04:58:56] <system5> my partner is pissed and just wants to have the clients sign a liability waiver saying that they won't sue us and then not spend the $300 a year or whatever it is on support per server and I've been arguing back and forth with him because I want to buy the contracts[04:58:56] <bda> Oracle support basically goes "uhm."[04:59:04] *** gregcoit has joined #opensolaris[04:59:07] <system5> exactly![04:59:13] <system5> my partner talked to an Oracle Sales rep[04:59:14] <bda> "What's Solaris?"[04:59:14] <system5> who said[04:59:15] <Macer> bda: hahaha[04:59:21] <Macer> hahahaha[04:59:23] <system5> you have to send an e-mail to somebody[04:59:24] <oninoshiko> http://adage.com/century/slogans.html[04:59:30] <system5> and then he said the e-mail server wasn't working properly[04:59:39] <Macer> system5: wow. :)[04:59:41] <Macer> go with MS then haha[04:59:49] <system5> and then he said- "Dude, let's just pocket the $300 and have the customer sign a waiver saying they won't sue us for not buying support"[04:59:50] <Macer> that's horrible[05:00:04] <Macer> system5: just get the systems set up[05:00:07] <Macer> and buy the support later[05:00:15] <Macer> the schools will be happy they have their servers[05:00:16] *** c00p has joined #opensolaris[05:00:22] <Macer> and tell them the truth. that you are waiting on oracle[05:00:24] <system5> yeah he said that one too[05:00:26] <Macer> :)[05:00:31] <victori> what does -r do for zfs snapshot?[05:00:31] <Macer> if all else fails..the truth works[05:00:35] <system5> "Dude, we can just buy it later"[05:00:40] <Macer> why not?[05:00:46] <Macer> jus tell the school that you have to[05:00:50] <system5> I don't want oracle to jack up the prices[05:00:55] <oninoshiko> victori: makes it recursive.[05:00:57] <system5> I wanted to buy before the prices got jacked up[05:01:05] <victori> recursive in what way?[05:01:07] <Macer> how do you know the prices will be jacked up? :)[05:01:08] <system5> the -r makes it snapshot both the parent and the child datasets[05:01:15] <system5> like if you snapshot a Solaris zone[05:01:18] <system5> and you don't use -r[05:01:22] <system5> the snapshot is basically worthless[05:01:37] <system5> because all the child datasets that actually contain the stuff in the zone weren't snapshotted properly[05:01:40] <victori> so just use -r by default[05:01:41] <Macer> and if they jack up the prices.. then that's life... tell the school that is what oracle charges for them[05:01:43] <system5> i found that one out the hard way[05:01:48] <Macer> which is good because right now they shouldn't have any pricing on it[05:01:51] <Macer> since you can't get it[05:01:55] <system5> weak[05:01:57] <Macer> so it will be the first price they get[05:01:59] <Macer> :)[05:02:15] <Macer> instead of you saying "it will cost $x.. then later telling them it will be $x+y"[05:02:21] <oninoshiko> victori: use -r when you need it. I find I always need it.[05:02:26] <system5> I guess my partner has a pretty strong argument for just pocketing the $300 we were going to spend on support for each server[05:02:41] <Macer> heh[05:02:52] <Macer> in the long run that small change you will pocket... will cost you more[05:02:58] <gregcoit> any suggestions on an ntp-client setup problem: http://pastebin.com/pMtGfKGU ?[05:03:01] <Macer> :) but good luck with that. i have to sleep. i hope things work out[05:03:02] <victori> oninoshiko just not sure when -r is needed still[05:03:04] <system5> exactly![05:03:09] <system5> which is why I want to buy support[05:03:18] <Macer> not to mention the absolute headaches[05:03:22] <system5> exactly![05:03:24] <Macer> :)[05:03:32] <system5> and what to I do when the OpenSolaris support on my Toshiba laptop runs out?[05:03:36] <system5> and I can't renew it?[05:03:37] <Macer> you're selling your life away for $300/server[05:03:38] <system5> that's kind of lame[05:03:42] <system5> no[05:03:49] <Macer> haha[05:04:01] *** abford has quit IRC[05:04:02] <system5> we're selling the servers for several thousand each[05:04:07] <oninoshiko> victori: when you want to take a snapshot of a zfs dataset and it's child-datasets[05:04:20] <gregcoit> nm, it's syncing - strange[05:04:21] <Macer> but pocketing the support that you would have bought from oracle @ ~300/server[05:04:26] *** gregcoit has left #opensolaris[05:04:36] <Macer> meaning that you would be sucking up the headache of endless phone calls[05:04:42] <system5> they're custom built with our own turnkey storage and monitoring scripts and tuned for the biocomputational / bioinformatics community[05:04:48] <Macer> and having your partner put "don't sue us if" on something[05:04:50] <Macer> sounds grimey[05:04:51] <Macer> :)[05:04:55] <system5> I know![05:04:56] <oninoshiko> you know, i was about to respond to that guy[05:05:02] <system5> so[05:05:03] <Macer> that is bad business[05:05:04] <Macer> heh[05:05:18] <system5> I want to go to a web page and click somewhere and enter a credit card number or paypal some money over to you guys[05:05:18] <Macer> if someone has to walk up to you and say " sign this so you can't sue us if... "[05:05:22] <system5> but you make it so difficult[05:05:24] <Macer> their card is going to the trash haha[05:05:35] *** lattera has quit IRC[05:05:37] <system5> like I said, if it was IBM they would have taken my money by now[05:05:48] <system5> and figured out the rest later[05:05:49] <oninoshiko> Macer: soo... you dont use any software then?[05:05:59] *** lattera has joined #opensolaris[05:06:02] <Macer> oninoshiko: differen't circumstance ;)[05:06:06] <Macer> er.. different[05:06:18] <system5> @Macer, read the Microsoft EULA you agreed to when using Windoze[05:06:24] <system5> if you use Windoze (I don't)[05:06:39] <system5> it basically says that you rent Windows from Microsoft and don't own it and never really purchased it[05:06:40] <oninoshiko> system5: screw that, read the GPL.[05:06:46] <system5> and they can take it away from you any time you want[05:06:57] <Macer> haha... yeah.. but.... that is a little different than conducting business as a sysadmin who says "this is how it will be..." then coming back later and bringing someone a paper saying "tech support.." and "sue us..."[05:07:01] <Macer> :)[05:07:07] <system5> so.....[05:07:10] <Macer> "sign here please" heh[05:07:13] <system5> I have to call some Oracle Rep[05:07:19] <system5> and say "I want to buy Solaris support"[05:07:22] <system5> and then they say-[05:07:29] <system5> "you need to send an e-mail to so and so"[05:07:35] <Macer> then get mean[05:07:36] <Macer> :)[05:07:37] <system5> and then the e-mail bounces back or never gets responded to[05:07:40] <oninoshiko> then you say, ok, then I want to talk to you manager[05:07:46] <system5> so what's the correct procedure for buying Solaris support?[05:07:53] <system5> right now?[05:08:04] <Macer> and start saying "IS IT THIS HARD TO GIVE YOU MONEY? YOU HAVE 3 SECONDS TO SEND ME TO SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT OR I'M HANGING U AND CALLING IBM WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE DOING!"[05:08:08] <bda> You can't, afaict.[05:08:08] <Macer> haha[05:08:22] <system5> I know[05:08:23] <Macer> it should never be hard to give people money :) haha[05:08:24] <system5> like I said[05:08:44] <system5> IBM is so good at the whole sales thing even though they're lazy and haven't updated their core technologies that much in the last 30 years[05:08:44] <bda> If I figure it out, I'll let you know. :)[05:08:47] <bda> I would like to be legal.[05:08:53] <oninoshiko> Macer: sun wasn't exactly easy to give money to[05:08:54] <Macer> haha[05:08:58] <system5> I mean the changes from MVS mainframes to z/OS mainframes are pretty minimal[05:09:01] <bda> Everyone else I know would like to be legal.[05:09:07] <Macer> oninoshiko: :) sure they were.. they just wanted more[05:09:10] <bda> Unfortunately they won't take our fucking money.[05:09:18] <Macer> deep down their execs were already thinking about their new boats[05:09:28] <system5> it's so hard to give money to Sun / Snoracle[05:09:36] <system5> I want to pay you guys and buy stuff[05:09:39] <bda> system5: I think it will change.[05:09:40] <system5> please take my money[05:09:43] <system5> pretty please ?[05:09:46] <oninoshiko> Macer: i had to get call them a half a dozen times over a month to get them to charge me for my T&B[05:09:53] <bda> system5: Oracle is just incorpating the Sun support/contract system into their own.[05:09:58] <system5> yeah[05:10:00] <bda> system5: Oracle is apparently quite good at taking money. :)[05:10:04] <oninoshiko> that was AFTER the T&B ended[05:10:10] <bda> So there will be a brief transition and then our pockets will be empty.[05:10:12] <Macer> hahha[05:10:13] <Macer> that's rough[05:10:18] <system5> ok, so where do I go to buy a Solaris support contract?[05:10:21] <system5> somebody has to know[05:10:28] *** LadySerena has joined #opensolaris[05:10:42] <oninoshiko> keep asking to speak to managers.[05:10:55] <oninoshiko> eventually you will get someone who can help (usually)[05:10:58] <system5> I don't want to indulge my business partner by letting him think he can get away with just pocketing the money we were going to use to buy support[05:11:04] <Macer> system5: you can always just set the servers up.. make sure they work.. and work on support later[05:11:11] <system5> well, it's going to be like $150 for him and $150 for me[05:11:12] <bda> No patches.[05:11:18] <system5> more money made on each server[05:11:20] <bda> Well, unless you already have a contract.[05:11:20] <system5> but no patches[05:11:23] <Macer> later you can give them a choice of either your tech support or sun's based on what the price of it is[05:11:30] <Macer> and let them decide[05:11:38] <victori> how much is a solaris basic support contract anyway?[05:11:43] <bda> It used to be $324.[05:11:44] <Macer> customers always like to feel like they're the ones making the decisions anyways :)[05:11:48] <bda> (yr/system)[05:11:50] <bda> Hard to say now.[05:11:53] <Macer> they'll have boring ass 3 hour meetings on one stupid question[05:11:54] <system5> victori- I thought basic was $300 a year[05:11:58] <system5> for a 2 socket system[05:12:01] <system5> am I right?[05:12:04] <Macer> i've gotten stuck in meetings like that[05:12:05] <system5> who else hear knows?[05:12:06] <Macer> it's horrible[05:12:15] <system5> it's more than $300[05:12:22] <system5> but I remember the first number being a "3"[05:12:27] <system5> my memory is garbage[05:12:28] <oninoshiko> victori: noone knows at the moment, it is being integrated into Oracle's offerings.[05:12:36] <system5> well, what was the old pre-Snorcle price?[05:12:40] <Macer> you know it's bad when all you need to talk about is ordering new desks and it turns into the contents of martian soil[05:12:41] <system5> $3xx right?[05:12:46] <oninoshiko> 324[05:12:47] *** Shoggoth has joined #opensolaris[05:12:49] <system5> thought so[05:12:52] <system5> $324[05:13:06] <system5> we had budgeted like $340 I think[05:13:09] <system5> to give some room[05:13:16] <system5> for the Larry tax[05:13:29] <victori> our company is pretty entrenched in using opensolaris; no motivation to hop ship to freebsd or linux; smf,zones,zfs are just too good compared to anything else.[05:13:39] <system5> what company is that victori?[05:13:44] <system5> only Joyent uses OpenSolaris[05:13:50] <system5> and they use "Solaris Express" and not "Indiana"[05:13:58] <bda> system5: Joyent rolls their own distro.[05:14:03] <bda> But several people do that.[05:14:04] <oninoshiko> no, not only joyent[05:14:06] <bda> s/people/orgs/[05:14:19] <system5> Joyent takes Solaris Express and puts NetBSD pkg-src on top of it[05:14:29] <victori> freebsd comes close, but freebsd jails have nothing on zones[05:14:33] <bda> No, they roll their own distro. The pkgsrc stuff is there for their users.[05:14:45] * bda uses pkgsrc on Solaris 10. :P[05:14:51] <system5> they don't "compile their own distro from source"[05:14:52] <victori> that and zfs mirror root = win.[05:14:54] <system5> they use Solaris Express[05:14:58] <bda> shrug.[05:14:59] <bda> Anyway.[05:15:02] <system5> rolling your own distro is what Google and Akamai do[05:15:07] <system5> where you have your own paid kernel engineers[05:15:12] <system5> who is the kernel engineer at Joyent?[05:15:18] <system5> no-one, because they use Solaris Express[05:15:24] <bda> SXCE is dead.[05:15:29] <system5> except at Joyent[05:15:34] * bda sighs.[05:15:39] <system5> where SXCE will probably live on for another couple of years[05:15:40] <system5> what[05:15:45] <oninoshiko> not just at joyent[05:15:58] <system5> Ben Rockwood said in one of his blog entries what builds of SXCE they use and which ones they're testing[05:16:21] <system5> if Joyent built from source they wouldn't have IPMI since IPMI doesn't work in Belenix or Milax or Nexenta or any other "self-rolled" distro[05:16:43] <bda> That's a weird argument.[05:16:50] <system5> hence the reason that they use Solaris Express + Jumpstart plus pkg-src[05:16:51] <bda> You could always ask benr.[05:16:56] <system5> well, let's see[05:17:04] <oninoshiko> i dont think he's here at the moment[05:17:04] <system5> IPMI is proprietary in Solaris Express[05:17:14] <system5> Jump Start is proprietary too (I think)[05:17:19] <system5> where is the Jump Start source code?[05:17:34] <bda> oninoshiko: Well, that's what email are twitter are for.[05:17:40] <system5> no way to roll your own distro with Jump Start, you would have to use Indiana's "A.I." installer or write your own[05:17:47] <system5> which is why Joyent uses SXCE[05:21:13] <system5> ugh[05:21:17] <system5> just read this: http://www.cuddletech.com/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=1119[05:22:00] <bda> And?[05:22:34] <system5> looks like no support for non-Sun systems? all kinds of penalties?[05:22:48] <system5> I don't see how our hardware system would be qualified as service ready since we build our own servers[05:23:02] <system5> and then install Solaris or OpenSolaris on them and buy support from Sun[05:23:05] <system5> or that was the plan[05:23:29] <bda> Sun is dead. Oracle does not behave like Sun did.[05:23:38] <system5> yeah,[05:23:40] *** syamajala has quit IRC[05:23:40] <bda> You'll have to wait until the dust settles.[05:24:49] *** abford has joined #opensolaris[05:25:08] *** sergiusens has joined #opensolaris[05:25:41] <Andys^> someone should set up a company to provide support for opensolaris![05:26:04] <bda> Like Nexenta? :)[05:26:36] <oninoshiko> does Nexenta support OpenSolaris?[05:26:50] <oninoshiko> or just Nexenta?[05:27:06] <system5> I still get ticked off at IPS, every now and then[05:27:12] <bda> Just Nexenta. :)[05:27:26] <bda> But according to some it's still OpenSolaris, it seems...[05:27:31] <system5> I'm scared that if I install too many packages using IPS and not SysV packages, I'll run into some IPS bug that will screw with me when I try to pkg image-update[05:27:36] <oninoshiko> it is and it isnt'[05:27:47] <bda> Like that dead cat.[05:27:52] <system5> if you install from SysV packages, it doesn't try to update the SysV package when you pkg image-update, am I right?[05:27:54] <bda> Always confused me. Wait long enough and all becomes clear.[05:27:57] <bda> If only by the smell.[05:28:00] <system5> giving you more control[05:28:07] <oninoshiko> it's not dead, but it is shrodinger's OS[05:28:13] <system5> LOL[05:28:20] <system5> OpenSolaris = Schroedinger's OS[05:28:22] <system5> that is brilliant[05:28:30] <system5> I'm going to steal that for conversational use if you don't mind[05:28:40] * oninoshiko shurgs[05:28:46] <system5> release it under the GPL so that I'm required to re-submit any changes I make to it back to you[05:29:01] <system5> or you could be cool and BSD it[05:29:03] <oninoshiko> actually, the GPL does not require that[05:29:12] <system5> well, the source and the changes need to be available[05:29:39] <system5> like if I take the Linux kernel, and change something and use that something I changed in a product that I sell / distribute to the public[05:29:46] <system5> and I don't distribute the source code for the change I made[05:29:46] <oninoshiko> the changes have to be made available to anyone you make binaries available to.[05:29:57] <system5> then I'm pwned by Stallman and Eben and the rest of the FSF[05:30:01] <system5> ask CISCO about it[05:30:08] <system5> right[05:30:23] <system5> Google and Akamai get around it by not making the binaries for the Google File System available to anyone[05:30:24] <oninoshiko> if stallman doesn't get a copy of it from me, I dont have to give him anything[05:31:13] <system5> well CISCO had Linksys appliances that were using a modded Linux kernel and they didn't make the source available[05:31:20] <system5> and they got pwned by Stallman and Eben[05:31:34] <system5> Stallman--> all your source are belong to us[05:31:42] <oninoshiko> yes, but all stallman had to do was buy one, then he can sue[05:32:03] <system5> but I thought Stallman won't buy anything that's not opensource?[05:32:08] <oninoshiko> but NOT until. (actually, there was a complaint from people who did, and did ask)[05:32:10] <system5> so he has a chicken or the egg problem on his hands[05:32:19] <gosx> don't think it was stallman, i think it was the Moglin and the EFF[05:32:31] <system5> yeah, Eben Moblin or Moglin or whatever his name is[05:32:40] <system5> that Israeli attorney dude who represents FSF for free[05:32:44] <oninoshiko> gosx: the point is that same, I dont have to give anything to anyone i dont give bins to[05:33:58] <oninoshiko> and if i give you a binary and you pass it on, it's then your responcibility to pass on the source to whoever you give it to (not mine), even if you make no changes[05:34:34] <gosx> oninoshiko: true. You could rip out the linux block layer and port ZFS onto the linux kernel and you're in the clear, provided you don't share it with anyone outside of your organization[05:34:44] <oninoshiko> seriously, im going to go get food now[05:40:14] <gosx> hrm[05:40:23] <gosx> those new Xeon chips look neat, but holy god they're expensive[05:40:35] <gosx> can now build a dell box with 1TB of DRAM[05:41:59] <Shoggoth> I never thought I'd see the day when a single Dell box had super-computer levels of RAM[05:42:08] <gosx> yea, same[05:42:12] *** edogawaconan has quit IRC[05:42:16] <gosx> that's all within a 4U rackmount box[05:42:35] <Shoggoth> biggest thing I ever played with memory-wise was a HP Superdome... that had 2TB[05:42:38] <gosx> for a mere $130K[05:42:44] <Shoggoth> and 128 cores... and 192 PCI slots!!!![05:42:48] <gosx> heh[05:42:53] <gosx> thats a lot of slots[05:42:56] <Shoggoth> yep[05:43:04] <system5> what's the largest RAM available in a Sun Fire x86 box?[05:43:04] <Shoggoth> it seems somewhat out of proportion[05:43:11] <system5> I thought it was somewhere between 500 and 600 GB[05:43:14] <system5> correct?[05:43:20] <gosx> 256 on the intel ones[05:43:22] <gosx> i think[05:43:25] <system5> I'm not talking SPARC, which is obviously more[05:43:26] <system5> no[05:43:34] <system5> there is definitely a Sun Fire box with 500GB of RAM[05:43:37] <system5> I'm certain of it[05:43:41] <system5> x4600 or something[05:43:42] <system5> like that[05:43:44] <Shoggoth> no idea sorry... last time I played with sun branded hardware was ultra2 workstations and a E3000[05:43:58] <system5> it came out at the same time as the first gen thumpers[05:44:02] <system5> that's too bad[05:44:05] <snuff-work> x4640 should support 512gb i think[05:44:06] <gosx> X4450 says 256GB[05:44:07] <system5> Sun's x86 hardware is the best[05:44:08] <system5> yeah[05:44:14] <system5> x4640 supports 512GB[05:44:19] <system5> and it was before Dell was doing it[05:44:19] <lewellyn> edude03: not really[05:44:26] <system5> but I guess now Dell goes up to 1 TB?[05:44:31] <system5> what Dell model is that?[05:44:35] <Shoggoth> yeah... it always looked pretty good to me... I have to say HP's stuff is pretty nice too.... not so sure about big-blue... not fond of dell[05:44:35] <snuff-work> an AMD cannot support more than 512gb ram in single system[05:44:37] <edude03> lol lewellyn[05:44:56] <Andys^> snuff: they might be able to with 16GB DIMMs[05:45:02] <system5> the ILOM in Sun's x86 is the best IMO[05:45:07] <system5> better than those stupid Dell DRAC cards[05:45:10] <system5> better than HP ILO[05:45:36] <system5> the older one on the V20z's was awful, but the ILOM that came out with the first generation of x4100's was amazing[05:45:44] <Shoggoth> 1st gen Ilo sucked[05:45:48] <system5> yup[05:45:48] <Shoggoth> ilo2 is ok[05:45:56] <system5> what's the one in the first x4100[05:45:57] <Shoggoth> haven't really played with ilo3 yet[05:46:02] <system5> not the M2, the one with all e1000g's[05:46:03] <Shoggoth> but I've heard it's pretty good[05:46:06] <system5> that one is amazing[05:46:08] <Shoggoth> ibm's rsa is ok[05:46:10] <system5> godlike powers[05:46:13] <Andys^> its not reallly fair to call 1TB "supercomputer" anymore..[05:46:18] <Shoggoth> has anyone played with apple's lights out?[05:46:18] <system5> to remotely control the server[05:46:37] <Shoggoth> I understand it's pretty neat[05:46:51] <system5> well, Apple's VNC is awful[05:46:57] <edude03> I need some disaster rocvery advice :/[05:47:00] <Shoggoth> lol... yes....[05:47:01] <system5> and I guess that's how they want you to remotely admin the server?[05:47:12] <system5> hence my bad opinion of Apple servers[05:47:14] <Shoggoth> but there 1U "Xserve" has a lights-out card in them[05:47:21] <system5> if it's a card then it sucks[05:47:30] <Shoggoth> .. eh... sorry... it's on the mobo[05:47:39] <system5> the reason the ILOM in the x4100 and later sun servers is so great is because it's built into the Mobo[05:47:51] <system5> vs Dell Dracs which are these retarded plugin cards you pay extra for[05:47:53] <Shoggoth> bad habbit of mine to refer to anything that's not a standard mobo feature as a "card"[05:47:56] <system5> heh[05:48:02] <Shoggoth> sry[05:48:14] <system5> I could never afford anything made by Apple except maybe an ipod[05:48:18] <system5> just didn't have the money[05:48:27] <system5> I run Solaris on generic x86 stuff I build myself[05:48:32] <Andys^> SGI has these xeon-based blade clusters now.... can link hundreds of Xeon sockets together with many TB of RAM..[05:48:37] <Shoggoth> actually the xserve is pretty well priced compared to similar kit[05:48:38] <system5> but other people let me play with their sun hardware and that's how I know how amazing it is[05:48:49] <Shoggoth> I nearly got some... but I ended up with a couple of proliants[05:49:05] <system5> which proliants did you get and how do you like them?[05:49:13] <system5> I heard Solaris support for HP hardware was uneven[05:49:35] <system5> and especially rocky if you don't have the Sun support, which is, of course, impossible to buy now due to the Snorcleization[05:50:08] <system5> I knew a guy who worked in Financial Services sector and his HP server running Solaris 10 would crash every time it was under a heavy load[05:50:11] <Shoggoth> I've got a couple of DL380 G5's ... excellent piece of kit[05:50:19] <system5> so he called Sun support and they went in there with mdb and dtrace and whatnot[05:50:23] <system5> looked at the core dumps[05:50:37] <Shoggoth> then again.. I'm not running solaris on bare metal... ESXi is on the box[05:50:40] <system5> and figured out that the RAID card driver (which was written for Solaris by HP engineers)[05:50:49] <system5> wasn't clearing out a buffer properly and that was causing the crash[05:51:01] <system5> took a month for HP engineers to patch their own driver[05:51:11] <system5> I'm sure those HP-UX engineers love writing Solaris drivers ;-)[05:51:20] <system5> here, take that Sun, here's a wrench in your cog![05:51:27] <Shoggoth> well it wouldn't be the hpux guys doing it[05:51:27] *** encode_ is now known as encode[05:51:33] <system5> you don't think?[05:51:38] <Shoggoth> HP is so large that each division is like a different company[05:51:43] <system5> maybe the Linux guys at HP write 'em?[05:51:45] <Shoggoth> I _know_ otherwise[05:52:12] <Shoggoth> hpux runs on non-x86... those groups have very little crossover[05:52:19] <system5> IC[05:52:34] <system5> so it would probably be the Linux people moonlighting as Solaris driver developers at HP?[05:52:54] <Shoggoth> well... it may well be some of the guys doing the linux stuf... but unlike the marketing spiel they don't have a "linux" group as such[05:52:58] <system5> you think HP would pay someone full time to do nothing but code for Solaris? I'm skeptical[05:53:05] <Shoggoth> oh no![05:53:06] <system5> I could see IBM doing that if they thought they would make money[05:53:07] <system5> but not HP[05:53:15] <system5> IBM is totally mercenary in that way[05:53:23] <Andys^> large chunks of HP's kit is just rebranded[05:53:26] <gosx> system5: Dell R910 is the 4-socket box that can hold the most memory[05:53:29] <Shoggoth> they're probably the same people who do the linux drivers and probably the windoze drivers as well[05:53:40] <system5> so a Dell R910 holds 1 TB of RAM?[05:53:46] <Shoggoth> Andys^: that's true of the low-end stuff[05:53:49] <system5> good point Shoggoth[05:53:51] *** The-spiki has quit IRC[05:54:14] <Shoggoth> thankfully the high-end kit is still done by engineers who tend to have a cluy[05:54:16] <Shoggoth> clue*[05:54:20] *** lattera has quit IRC[05:54:24] <system5> I can't believe that SGI is a Linux vendor now[05:54:28] <Shoggoth> unfortunately they don't get much backing from the higher-ups[05:54:38] <system5> I've come to really hate on Linux after using it as my main desktop OS for almost a decade[05:55:05] *** leito has quit IRC[05:55:05] <Shoggoth> it's kind of interesting looking at the difference of cultures between sun and hp[05:55:10] <Andys^> SGI buyers aren't using their systems as desktops :)[05:55:23] <Shoggoth> unfortunately it's part of the reason sun went the way it did[05:55:29] <Shoggoth> still run by engineers[05:55:46] <system5> well Sun needed a different Sales / Marketing team[05:55:47] <gosx> system5: yea, R910 is up to 1TB, R810 up to 512GB[05:55:49] <system5> and they would have been fine[05:55:51] <system5> for example[05:56:11] <Shoggoth> hp still has some in some dark corners (many are actually DEC people) but the place is run by sales droids and marketing types these days[05:56:31] <system5> IBM's mainframe marketing people are selling something that is basically slow and vastly over-priced[05:56:37] <system5> that won't work with most modern technology[05:56:42] <system5> and they do an amazing job doing it![05:56:43] <gosx> 16x 16GB DIMMs per socket[05:56:50] <Shoggoth> it's kind of ironic... if HP had bought Digital directly rather than having all that Compaq crap... it might still be a great engineering firm[05:57:03] <system5> the end of DEC was a massive blow to technology[05:57:10] <Andys^> also, Samsung is about to ship 32GB DIMMs[05:57:12] <Shoggoth> system5: I don't begruge IBM doing that[05:57:18] <system5> the DEC Alpha was such a great chip[05:57:22] <system5> I don't begrudge them[05:57:24] <system5> but I'm saying[05:57:28] <gosx> system5: Alpha was awesome, especially when the heatsink fan died[05:57:35] <Andys^> system5: is POWER system really slow? it can be extremely fast, iirc[05:57:40] <Shoggoth> they've been smart enough to realise that there's still a lot of $$$$ to be made from legacy support[05:57:49] <system5> Andys, Mainframes don't run on Power[05:57:52] <Shoggoth> Andys^: no.. POWER is very FAST[05:57:57] <system5> you obviously don't know anything about Mainframes or System Z[05:58:06] <system5> or MVS / zOS / zVM[05:58:10] <system5> no offense[05:58:20] <system5> they run on z architecture which is different from power[05:58:33] <Shoggoth> system5: that's sort of true... and sort of not... mainframe is the old 360 but it's emulated on top of POWER[05:58:40] <system5> what?[05:58:45] <system5> which mainframe model has a power cpu?[05:58:46] <system5> which one?[05:58:48] <system5> the z10?[05:58:50] <system5> the z9?[05:58:55] <system5> all are on z architecture[05:59:00] <system5> the z architecture is not a Power CPU[05:59:08] <Shoggoth> the actual CPU's in most z-series are POWER....with an emulation layer on top[05:59:09] <system5> the cell CPU used in the playstation is closer to power than Z is[05:59:17] <Andys^> system: ok, sorry i thought you meant iSeries when you said mainframe :)[05:59:22] <system5> "in most z series"?[05:59:24] <Andys^> i though zSeries is dead lol[05:59:25] <system5> which one specifically?[05:59:31] <Shoggoth> just a moment...[05:59:31] <system5> the i series is power[05:59:38] <system5> the z series is z architecture[05:59:40] <system5> go to wikipedia[06:00:05] <system5> most recent mainframes are *drummroll*[06:00:09] <system5> the z9:[06:00:10] <system5> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System_z9[06:00:28] <system5> and the z10:[06:00:30] <system5> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System_z10[06:00:37] *** farsan has quit IRC[06:00:48] <system5> look at the internals, schematics, specs, all of which are on those wikipedia pages, and tell me where the power CPUs are[06:01:10] <Andys^> this is getting a little offtopic ;)[06:02:30] <Shoggoth> sorry... where are the schematics?[06:02:36] <system5> those two wikipedia pages[06:02:41] <system5> shows what cpus and how many[06:03:00] *** vraa has quit IRC[06:03:15] *** farsan has joined #opensolaris[06:03:17] <system5> what I'm saying, if you could sell something that's only good as a legacy cash cow and make 8 billion dollars a year from it like IBM does[06:03:34] <system5> you could sell something like Solaris which is actually much better and make more money using the same marketing techniques[06:03:50] <Shoggoth> yes... the "CPU's" come on a daughter card... take a look at one sometime you might get a surprise[06:04:19] <system5> are you talking about the IFL CPU's (integrated facility for Linux) that OpenSolaris for System Z runs on?[06:04:23] <system5> those aren't power CPUs either[06:04:29] <system5> which is why AIX doesn't run on the mainframe[06:04:31] <Shoggoth> no... I'm not talking them[06:04:57] *** FrequencyParadox has left #opensolaris[06:05:17] <Shoggoth> in any case that's the argument I was about to make vis-a-vis HP... they've got lots of legacy platforms too: vms, mpe/ix etc. and they killed them off rather than make a cash cow from them[06:05:22] *** CodeWar has joined #opensolaris[06:07:00] <system5> VMS is still a cash cow[06:07:01] *** h3x0r has quit IRC[06:07:09] <system5> I think oil companies like Chevron use VMS don't they?[06:07:14] *** h3x0r has joined #opensolaris[06:07:23] <system5> I saw jobs for VMS admin positions at Chevron a while ago[06:07:32] <system5> MPE/IX is dead[06:07:39] <Andys^> the legacy nature of the platform is by design; these big companies choose a vendor thats going to be stable in the very long term[06:07:39] <system5> but VMS and HP-UX are definitely cash cows[06:07:51] <Shoggoth> nah... large inventory and warehousing as well as things like fab automation are VMS[06:07:59] <Andys^> so of course they're going to pay top dollar... this is the top level of computing, not x86 consumer crud[06:08:05] <system5> and Microsoft Windoze is based on VMS[06:08:07] <system5> indirectly[06:08:13] <system5> since David Cutler plagiarizes himself[06:08:17] <system5> when he wrote WINNT[06:08:20] <Shoggoth> well sort of... MPE is dead because HP decided to take it out the back and shoot it... and they've tried doing the same with VMS on several occasions[06:08:43] <Shoggoth> lol.... that's a hoary old chestnut... yes Dave was involved in both projects[06:08:45] <system5> if you take VMS and increment each letter by one you get WNT = Windows N T[06:09:00] *** perlmongo has joined #opensolaris[06:09:09] <system5> the CISCO IOS command line seems kinda similar to VMS[06:09:12] <system5> don't you think?[06:09:12] <Shoggoth> but it certainly stretching a long bow to say that one is a lineal descendant of the other[06:09:16] <system5> lots of "show" commands and crap[06:09:18] <Shoggoth> yes... I'd agree with that[06:09:22] <system5> we don't "show" anything in UNIX[06:09:33] <system5> I think some of the commands like[06:09:36] <Shoggoth> meh... everyone should just be using Plan9 :)[06:09:56] <system5> "show sessions" and what not do something on both CISCO IOS and VMS but they have vastly different output and purposes[06:10:13] <Shoggoth> I have a love/hate relationship with VMS[06:10:23] <Shoggoth> it's ugly as hell... but also _very_ stable and secure[06:10:27] <system5> interestingly enough CISCO IOS was written by a guy who was working at SUN Microsystems[06:10:31] <system5> and CISCO licensed it from him[06:10:35] <Shoggoth> and the clustering is still hard to out-do[06:10:35] <system5> William Yeager, I think?[06:10:46] <Shoggoth> not sure..[06:11:10] <system5> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Yeager[06:11:13] <Shoggoth> wonder if he's related to Chuck :-P[06:11:23] <system5> might be?[06:11:36] <system5> it's probably just a re-spelling of the german word Jaeger or "hunter"[06:11:37] <Shoggoth> don't know how I missed him[06:11:55] <system5> it's pronounced "Yay-ger"[06:11:57] *** bitvector2 has joined #opensolaris[06:12:00] <Shoggoth> yes... I'm pretty sure it is precisely that[06:12:08] <Shoggoth> although my german is rather rusty[06:12:29] <system5> I can only pick up German and Dutch because they are easy because they are similar to English[06:12:41] <system5> with the grammar being mainly different but the vocabulary being similar[06:12:57] *** leito has joined #opensolaris[06:13:02] <Shoggoth> I did german at high school and found it easy to pick up... of course it helped that two of my best friends had german parents :)[06:13:16] <system5> anyway, if VMS clustering was supposedly so awesome[06:13:23] <system5> then why does Windows 2003 clustering suck so bad[06:13:32] <Shoggoth> but yes... german, english, dutch = western germanic language grouping[06:13:44] <Shoggoth> becuase as I said.. the dave cutler thing is over played[06:13:46] <system5> considering that Microsoft hired the whole VMS team pretty much[06:13:54] <system5> well, they got all his friends too[06:13:56] <Shoggoth> he didn't have that much to do with the actual implementation of either[06:13:57] <system5> like a whole bunch of them[06:14:07] <system5> oh, so he only does kernel dev then?[06:14:13] <Macer> hm[06:14:17] <Macer> zsh is nice[06:14:20] <system5> he had a team of guys and they went from DEC to Microsoft[06:14:23] <Shoggoth> that's not how the guys I know who worked with him at DEC see it[06:14:28] <CodeWar> nothing like hiring a whole bunch of old guns ... helps make sure legacy code never dies[06:14:34] <Shoggoth> lol... yes[06:15:09] <system5> it's interesting though that CISCO IOS originated from someone within Sun Microsystems though[06:15:24] <system5> seems like all the cool stuff in UNIX came from either AT&T or UC Regents or Sun[06:15:31] <system5> I don't consider HP or IBM to be UNIX innovators[06:15:39] <Shoggoth> not surprising really... they're both based in the valley[06:15:52] <Shoggoth> no I'd agree...[06:16:00] <system5> and Linux doesn't innovate[06:16:03] <Shoggoth> I spent a decade working on SunOS and Solaris[06:16:08] *** corretico_ has joined #opensolaris[06:16:08] <Shoggoth> then a decade working on HPUX[06:16:12] <system5> Linux re-invents the wheel over and over again[06:16:14] <system5> I don't call that innovation[06:16:15] <Shoggoth> yep![06:16:29] <system5> as soon as you get a wheel that's working somehwhat decently[06:16:35] <Shoggoth> there is _some_ innovation around the edges... but in the most part....[06:16:40] <system5> a new generation of Linux emos come around[06:16:50] <Shoggoth> well... yes... although I think the problem with most of what happens with IT in general[06:16:58] <system5> and say- "Why do we have to still use this legacy round wheel, I think a square wheel would be so much better"[06:17:00] <Shoggoth> is that we re-invent the wheel every other week[06:17:11] <Shoggoth> but they haven't figured out that it should be round[06:17:21] <Shoggoth> lol... yes precisely[06:17:30] <system5> well, as much as I dislike IBM, the one thing they do right is they don't re-invent the wheel over and over[06:17:45] <system5> unless throwing some pocket change at Linux devs counts as reinventing the wheel indirectly[06:17:57] <Shoggoth> some wheels do need re-inventing though...[06:17:58] <system5> like if you base your business on Microsoft[06:18:02] <system5> like everyone is doing now[06:18:08] <system5> take MS Exchange[06:18:15] <system5> I had a problem with an old Exchange server[06:18:17] <Shoggoth> the _one_ thing I did like when I went from solaris to hpux is LVM[06:18:27] <Shoggoth> disksuite was bloody aweful[06:18:34] <system5> called up my buddy who has all the letters of the MIcrosoft alphabet after his name[06:18:42] *** CodeWar has left #opensolaris[06:18:42] <system5> MCDT, MCSE, etc. etc.[06:18:44] <Shoggoth> know a few of them... :)[06:18:48] *** corretico has quit IRC[06:18:57] <system5> and he didn't know how to deal with it because it was an older version of Exchange and he didn't know the interface[06:19:07] <system5> because MIcrosoft randomly changes stuff from one release to another[06:19:10] <system5> that breaks everything[06:19:21] <system5> like with Office 2003 and Office 2008 or whatever the versions are[06:19:23] <system5> totally different[06:19:29] <system5> you have to relearn everything and I hate it[06:19:30] *** zazenrasta has quit IRC[06:19:32] <Shoggoth> yes... unforunately I know[06:19:34] <system5> I like being comfortable[06:19:41] <system5> and that's the one thing IBM does right[06:19:44] <Shoggoth> I've spent the last four years doing VMware[06:19:57] <system5> you buy an AS/400 in the 1980's and a "System i" in 2010[06:20:01] <system5> and they're really kind of the same thing[06:20:09] <Shoggoth> worst thing about it is that it's put Micro$oft's grubby foor back in the datacenter door[06:20:19] <system5> same thing with MVS in the 1970's and z/OS in 2010[06:20:22] <Andys^> Shoggoth: but inside a VM, where it firmly belongs ;)[06:20:30] <system5> there are a lot of things that are creaky and hateful about working on mainframes[06:20:47] <system5> one dev told me developing on a mainframe is like kicking a dead whale down a beach[06:20:51] <system5> but once you learn it[06:21:00] <system5> you don't need to re-learn it all over again every 3 or 4 years[06:21:04] <system5> and that to me is almost worth it[06:21:19] <Shoggoth> Andys^: I disagree... I used to think the same... but all x86 virtualisation has done is allow people to deploy several orders of magnitude more windoze boxen[06:21:28] *** zazenrasta has joined #opensolaris[06:21:42] <Shoggoth> system5: that's about how I feel about VMS :)[06:21:48] <system5> yeah,[06:21:49] <Andys^> Shoggoth: i personally found windows server alot less obnoxious to manage when its inside a VM. still my last preference for OS, of course..[06:22:16] <system5> at least with Sun, up until Solaris 10, when they changed something, they had a damn good reason and maintained backwards compatibility for the most part from Solaris 2 to Solaris 10[06:22:20] <Shoggoth> Andys^: true... but before VMware came along windoze had started to receed from datacenters[06:22:24] <Shoggoth> now it's bloody everyone[06:22:26] <system5> like SMF was actually an improvement over SysV init[06:22:29] <Shoggoth> everywhere *[06:22:42] <system5> and you can still have /etc/init.d on Solaris 10[06:22:46] <Shoggoth> like I said... Plan9 ftw![06:22:51] <Shoggoth> ;)[06:23:02] *** vmlemon has quit IRC[06:23:03] <system5> it's only with OpenSolaris that they started messing stuff up like getting rid of scripting during the package installation process[06:23:17] <system5> which 99% of sysadmins I know are pissed about[06:23:26] <system5> because that's how they do their jobs[06:23:36] <system5> flash archive, jump start, scripts inside sysv packages[06:23:40] <Shoggoth> actually... that's the only other thing that I liked about HPUX[06:23:48] <system5> what, that HPUX didn't change?[06:23:59] <Shoggoth> IgniteUX is a great way to do automated installs[06:24:02] <system5> you think it's still worth while to learn HP-UX or do only Solaris and AIX matter now?[06:24:09] <Shoggoth> jumpstart and kickstart both suck[06:24:26] <Shoggoth> nah... hpux is dead... aix is dead... solaris and linux are the last men standing[06:24:30] <system5> although my faith in Solaris is now shaken to the ground due to the fact that I can't buy Solaris support right now[06:24:38] <jamesd2> system5, its pretty rare to see a place that has hpux and solaris... aix is still live and kicking... as is solairs[06:24:43] *** vmlemon has joined #opensolaris[06:24:44] <system5> if AIX is dead, then how come it's the fastest growing UNIX right now?[06:24:50] <system5> where is IBM selling all these boxes to?[06:25:02] <system5> I know a guy at Ticket Master and they have a Power AIX box there[06:25:02] <Shoggoth> sure... IBM are doing a "surge"[06:25:07] <system5> and at Union Bank they have some[06:25:11] <Shoggoth> I doubt it will last[06:25:32] <Shoggoth> besides I'm not seeing much of that in my corner of the world[06:25:34] <system5> it seemed like AIX was gaining market share for a while, I don't know how they were doing it[06:25:41] <system5> what corner is your corner? Australia or UK?[06:25:49] <Shoggoth> Asia-Pacific[06:25:54] <system5> IBM UK seems like it's mad about something so I assume their getting their buts kicked[06:25:55] <Shoggoth> Australia/New Zealand mostly[06:25:58] <system5> ic[06:26:06] <Shoggoth> but lots of SE Asia and Nth Asia[06:26:12] <system5> Australia / New Zealand is strong Sun territory from what I've heard[06:26:22] <system5> I heard Korea and Dubai are heavy into the IBM stuff[06:26:27] <system5> for business stuff[06:26:28] <Shoggoth> yes....[06:26:34] <Shoggoth> china is a good place for HP[06:26:37] <jamesd2> power are some nice cpus... and AIX+lpars are a great virtualization platform.. and smit is pretty hard to beat[06:26:39] <system5> really?[06:26:39] <Shoggoth> so is singapore and malaysia[06:26:43] <system5> there's HP-UX in China?[06:26:46] <Shoggoth> yep[06:26:51] <Shoggoth> lots[06:27:10] <system5> I always thought China was Microsoft / IBM and maybe a little Solaris here and there[06:27:18] <Shoggoth> there's a fair bit in Australia too[06:27:25] <Shoggoth> IBM is the smaller player here[06:27:34] <Shoggoth> unix-wise that is[06:27:35] <system5> probably because all the IBM stuff I learned was from google translating Chinese web sites[06:27:53] <system5> like 90% of my IBM mainframe knowledge was from using google translate to read chinese forums[06:28:05] <Shoggoth> lol[06:28:05] <system5> where they were cracking and taking apart z/OS and figuring out how it worked[06:28:14] <system5> can't find stuff like that in English[06:28:16] <system5> only in Chinese[06:28:18] <Shoggoth> china is such a huge market that it's big for every vendor[06:28:34] <Shoggoth> I know that HP sold a _lot_ of superdomes there over the last several years[06:28:53] <Shoggoth> although I suspect a few would be running windows :([06:30:03] <system5> yeah[06:30:08] <system5> Windows 2008 Data Center edition[06:30:15] <Shoggoth> and if you think windows on x86 is bad[06:30:17] <system5> the Chinese government is in bed with Micro$oft big time[06:30:20] <Shoggoth> you ain't seen nothin'[06:30:26] <system5> it's that bad on Itanium?[06:30:31] <system5> I thought it would be better somehow[06:30:41] <system5> since it costs like $50,000 or someething for the license, right?[06:30:43] <Shoggoth> I haven't played with it in about 3 years mind you[06:31:04] <Shoggoth> but last time I played with it ... you had to move which slot the VGA card was in when you applied a service pack[06:31:05] <Shoggoth> !!!!!![06:31:23] *** corretico_ has quit IRC[06:31:32] <system5> well, at least the VGA card was hot swappable, right?[06:31:39] <Shoggoth> not under windows[06:31:39] <system5> on those big HP boxes[06:31:41] <Shoggoth> hpux yes[06:31:44] <Shoggoth> windows no[06:31:45] <system5> lame lame lame[06:31:51] <Shoggoth> ... like I said that was 3 years ago[06:31:57] <system5> unbelievable[06:32:00] <Shoggoth> I don't really deal with the big-tin so much these days[06:32:07] <Shoggoth> it's all vmware for me now[06:32:20] <system5> yeah, but how do you troubleshoot ESXi when something goes wrong?[06:32:26] <Andys^> it never goes wrong :-)[06:32:33] <system5> it does all the time in my datacenter[06:32:36] <Andys^> hehehe[06:32:39] <system5> I've seen stuff happen[06:32:40] <Shoggoth> lol... if you know the platform it's not so bad[06:32:48] <system5> where VMware ESXi would swap the NICS[06:32:52] <Shoggoth> we were talking earlier about market share[06:33:00] <system5> like the private network and public network are on different nics[06:33:04] <system5> and ESXi would swap them[06:33:09] <Shoggoth> relatively speaking... _all_ the big name unixen are dead[06:33:15] <system5> I even got that pink purple screen of death on one[06:33:24] <Andys^> ouch dude[06:33:26] <Andys^> what did you *do* to it?[06:33:28] <Shoggoth> redhat and vmware are the ones making the big inroads[06:33:33] <system5> I did nothing[06:33:36] <system5> it was a customer's box[06:33:39] <Shoggoth> someone did something!!!![06:33:42] <system5> colocated at one of the data centers I work[06:33:43] <system5> no[06:33:44] <Andys^> in any case, its pretty easy to debug - you SSH in or use the console and poke around with the vm-* utilities[06:33:53] <Shoggoth> that _doesn't_ happen without someone screwing the pooch[06:33:54] <system5> vm* utilities[06:33:57] <system5> interesting[06:34:12] <system5> I think it was his RAID 5 array silently corrupting his data[06:34:16] <system5> that's just my hypothesis though[06:34:26] <system5> I don't see how VMware maintains end to end data integrity for all the VMS[06:34:27] <Shoggoth> eh... and there's the argument for ZFS :)[06:34:30] <Andys^> he mustn't have been using ZFS ;)[06:34:30] <system5> yup[06:34:33] <Andys^> zing![06:34:43] <system5> man I thought SOlaris was going to make such a big comeback[06:34:45] <system5> I mean really[06:34:56] <Shoggoth> my SOHO setup has a opensolaris box serving out iscsi over zfs[06:34:57] <Andys^> yeah, it doesn't maintain integrity for performance reasons. unless you use lockstep between two hosts[06:34:57] <system5> I'm selling these storage boxes to universities like hot cakes[06:35:05] <Shoggoth> and then I run VMFS on top of that[06:35:07] <Shoggoth> works pretty well[06:35:09] <system5> and I want to kick some money over to SUn / Oracle / Snorcle[06:35:13] <system5> and they won't let me do it[06:35:15] <system5> why?[06:35:22] <system5> so frustrating[06:35:25] <Andys^> i hate that[06:35:31] <Shoggoth> meh.... vendors![06:35:34] <system5> yeah, I can't buy Solaris support[06:35:40] <system5> right now anyway[06:35:56] <Shoggoth> lol.. Snorcle... I like!!!![06:36:00] <system5> and my partner is going to take his half of the $340 dollars allocated for SOlaris support and spend it on booze[06:36:04] <system5> I just know[06:36:06] <system5> I just know it[06:36:21] <Andys^> might be just as effective ;)[06:36:23] <Shoggoth> lmao... I read that as $340m ... on booze[06:36:24] <system5> so if I can't figure out how to buy SOlaris basic support or OpenSolaris support by next week I have a feeling we're just going to run without it[06:36:38] <system5> Snoracle[06:36:43] <system5> or Sunnacle[06:36:56] <system5> maybe S'noracle ?[06:37:08] <Shoggoth> snoracle... or snorcle (snorkel)... sounds better[06:37:17] <system5> they should still sell Solaris support even while they are trying to figure out what to do with Solaris[06:37:20] <Andys^> i prefer.. "JSQL" ;)[06:37:22] <system5> why turn down my money[06:37:48] *** corretico has joined #opensolaris[06:37:49] <system5> hey, is anybody else having problems joining #solaris ?[06:37:55] <system5> doesn't seem to work for me[06:37:58] <system5> only #opensolaris works[06:37:59] <Shoggoth> I'm sure if you offered them enough green you could get support[06:38:30] <Aria> It's just you.[06:38:35] <system5> yeah, but we're a Linux sysadmin and a university student who is a professional bioinformatics programmer moonlighting as a storage vendor[06:38:57] <system5> and the programmer wants to not buy the Solaris support and spend the money on booze[06:39:09] <system5> because he feels that if there's a problem, the sysadmin will take care of it[06:39:15] <system5> typical developer mindset[06:39:19] <Andys^> heheh[06:39:31] <Andys^> system5: if all you're using is ZFS, it works remarkable stably[06:39:40] <system5> yeah, that's all we use[06:39:45] <Shoggoth> I think they should pass a law that says you're not allowed to write a single line of code unless you've spent at least 5 years in a support role[06:40:09] <system5> yeah, but then Windoze wouldn't have as many apps[06:40:09] <system5> lol[06:40:22] <system5> since Windoze sysadmins and Windoze programmers have totally different mindsets[06:40:32] <system5> unlike UNIX / Linux where developers and sysadmins overlap[06:40:37] <jamesd2> system5, you are in #solaris as system5 and system5_[06:40:43] <system5> aha[06:40:45] <Shoggoth> well... really we should all think Bill Gates... without windoze there'd be a lot more unemployment in the IT industry[06:40:55] <system5> weird[06:40:57] <Shoggoth> I mean... how mean Snr. Reboot Technicians are there[06:41:07] <system5> must be something wrong with irssi[06:41:17] <system5> LOL[06:41:20] <Shoggoth> system5: are you finding that still[06:41:22] <system5> snr reboot technician[06:41:47] <Shoggoth> down here devels and admins can't even stand to be in the same room[06:41:47] <system5> will be "Senor Reboot Technician" when all the datacenters get outsourced to Mexico and south america[06:42:08] <Shoggoth> oh! is that where yours are... ours are in india and the philipines[06:42:32] <system5> well, a *nix admin is kind of a *nix developer in a very small way because he's going to have to write a shell script or perl or python script at some time in his life[06:42:45] <Andys^> i haven't heard glowing stories about sun support previously...[06:42:51] <Shoggoth> system5: unfortunately the young kids these days don't know how to script[06:43:01] <Andys^> least with osol you have the src[06:43:24] <system5> and just writing lame scripts makes him at least as much of a "developer" as someone who codes in Visual Basic on Windoze[06:43:28] <system5> am I right?[06:43:28] <Shoggoth> hell I don't mind which country the support is in... as long as they understand the concept of timezones and the international dateline[06:43:48] <system5> a *nix admin has at least as much "developer" cred (if not more) than a VB or C# coder[06:44:09] <system5> Phillipines support can be the worst[06:44:13] *** edude03 has quit IRC[06:44:17] <system5> I know a lawyer who outsourced his IT to the phillipines[06:44:19] <Shoggoth> sorry fellas... but one thing that really pisses me off is when I ring support that's based in the USA on a monday and I get asked why I'm working on a sunday[06:44:38] <system5> and I talk to his sysadmin who is some woman in the phillipines[06:44:44] <system5> about DNS and MX records and stuff[06:45:08] <system5> and the Phillipina woman says (in Phillipina accent): "I'm sorry but I am at home right now and don't have internet access"[06:45:16] <Shoggoth> lol[06:45:20] <Shoggoth> fantastic![06:45:23] <system5> and I thought- YES! We need more customers for my data center that don't have 24/7 internet access[06:45:30] <Shoggoth> that must be a real cheap support contract[06:45:42] <system5> that explains why she didn't notice when we had a network outage caused by some bad Extreme Black Diamond switches[06:45:46] <system5> I hate extreme switches[06:45:49] <system5> worst switches ever[06:45:52] <Shoggoth> never heard of them[06:45:59] <system5> they are purple[06:46:07] <Shoggoth> I only use cisco, juniper or procurve[06:46:13] <system5> used a lot by the supercomputer crowd[06:46:17] <system5> Juniper is awesome[06:46:19] <Shoggoth> oh![06:46:23] <system5> Cisco is reliable but expensive[06:46:42] <Shoggoth> procurve stuff is pretty good... but like everything else the HP marketing droids don't have a clue[06:46:42] <system5> Procurve must be ok because Akamai has a tone of them in their data center every time I walk through there[06:46:55] <system5> I've seen pics of Google data centers with procurve in them too[06:47:02] <Shoggoth> I'd say that they're as good as if not better than the cisco stuff[06:47:03] <Andys^> Cisco/Linksys FTW[06:47:13] <system5> No[06:47:16] <system5> Linksys cannot win[06:47:17] <Shoggoth> the nice thing about procurve is that they follow IEEE standards to the letter[06:47:18] <system5> it can only fail[06:47:21] <Shoggoth> unlike cisco[06:47:23] <Andys^> i had to do some work on a linksys switch... couldn't telnet in, only had a web interface - and it required IE, came up as a blank page in firefox[06:47:26] <system5> CISCO != linksys[06:47:34] * andrnils loves the juniper stuff[06:47:35] *** edude03 has joined #opensolaris[06:47:36] <system5> Linksys is garbage[06:47:45] <Shoggoth> junipers stuff is nice[06:47:47] <Shoggoth> too[06:48:02] <devians[w]> its a pity because linksys used to be pretty good for consumer level[06:48:13] <system5> I wish Sun would've bought Juniper and SGI back in the day instead of Cobalt and MySQL and that tape storage company[06:48:14] <devians[w]> my favorite to hate is dlink consumer grade stuff. just awful.[06:48:21] <Shoggoth> yes[06:48:21] <system5> dlink and linksys are horrible[06:48:23] <Shoggoth> dlink = crap[06:48:30] <Shoggoth> netgear is ok-ish[06:48:41] <Shoggoth> but I've generally given up on all the consumer level stuff[06:48:46] <system5> linksys is only good if you format over the Linksys firmwear and replace it with your own embedded Linux distro like dd-wrt[06:48:50] <system5> dd-wrt is awesome[06:48:56] <Shoggoth> I just picked up a new procurve this morning to put into my SOHO rack[06:49:00] <system5> even though linksys still sucks[06:49:09] <system5> how is the procurve CLI ?[06:49:25] <Shoggoth> it's ok I guess... looks somewhat cisco-ish[06:49:26] <Shoggoth> :([06:49:41] <devians[w]> i remember i had a dlink router. it had a shitty over jpeged and over compressed webui, and it had plainly never been tested. the port forwarding page had no form of apply button. so you could never map ports through the nat[06:49:43] <system5> hey, this is what an Extreme Black Diamond in a super-compute cluster looks like:[06:49:47] <system5> http://www.scl.ameslab.gov/Projects/IBMCluster/ExtremeSwitch.jpg[06:49:49] *** Gugge_ has joined #opensolaris[06:49:51] <system5> those things are the bane of my existence[06:49:54] <system5> I hate extreme[06:49:56] <system5> hate hate hate[06:49:57] <devians[w]> we use a pfsense machine now.[06:50:09] <system5> PF is good, but I don't like the GUI for pfsense[06:50:15] <system5> just my personal preference[06:50:19] <Shoggoth> lol... looks like an old cisco or procurve 9000 with a splash of paint[06:50:22] <system5> I would rather just install OpenBSD on an old sparc box[06:50:35] <system5> no, an Extreme Black Diamond is not a Catalyst 6500[06:50:42] <system5> the Extreme is really fast[06:50:53] <system5> but it's performance sucks once you start using vlans[06:51:04] <system5> and the embedded OS isn't stable and crashes sometimes[06:51:08] <system5> so it will ruin your uptime[06:51:20] <Shoggoth> I must say I'm surprised... I thought all the supercomputer makers had gone infiniband[06:51:23] <system5> probably why it's a hit with the HPC crowd, which doesn't need uptime or vlans[06:51:30] <system5> well, for cheap HPC[06:51:36] <Shoggoth> right![06:51:36] <system5> for cheap, ghetto HPC[06:51:42] *** Gugge has quit IRC[06:51:42] <system5> Extreme is the winner there[06:51:55] <system5> you can get a black diamond for so much cheaper than a Catalyst 6500[06:52:07] <Shoggoth> I'm more interested to see what happens now that HP owns 3com[06:52:15] <Macer> wow. The Pacific has messed up uniforms for the Marines where the chevrons don't have crossed rifles.. for shame Tom Hanks[06:52:17] <system5> and it has more than 40gb of throughput[06:52:30] <Shoggoth> 3com have a _huge_ presence in china[06:52:30] <Macer> bring a former Marine ... that is incredibly irritating :)[06:52:37] <Shoggoth> semper fi![06:52:45] <system5> all the Army uniforms are wrong in every movie[06:52:49] <system5> I think they do it on purpose[06:52:51] <system5> for legal reasons[06:53:01] <system5> you'll see like a ranger tab upside down or something[06:53:08] <enderst> no, they just screwed up[06:53:12] <system5> or badges that don't go together[06:53:27] <Shoggoth> that's the least of hollywood's offences[06:53:27] <system5> no, Hollywood has advisors who know how to do stuff right[06:53:42] <Shoggoth> maybe if they stopped doing remakes[06:53:43] <system5> I think they deliberately always make at least one thing wrong in a military uniform worn by an actor[06:53:54] <system5> watch movies and you'll always notice one thing is off in the uniform[06:54:12] <system5> maybe they don't want to be "impersonating an officer"? who knows[06:54:32] <system5> what about Full Metal Jacket, were the marine uniforms correct there?[06:54:34] *** edude03 has quit IRC[06:54:43] <system5> considering the drill sergeant was an actual marine[06:54:50] <Shoggoth> really!!!![06:55:11] <Shoggoth> I should've seen that coming... typical Kubrick[06:55:43] <system5> yeah, he failed the audition because Kubrick said he wasn't mean enough[06:55:48] <Shoggoth> lmao[06:55:53] <system5> so after failing the audition a few time, he did a video of himself being real mean[06:55:55] <enderst> r lee ermey is great[06:55:56] <system5> and won the part[06:56:17] <system5> Kubrick didn't write lines for him either[06:56:22] <system5> all the insults are improvised on the spot[06:56:30] <Shoggoth> that's surprising[06:56:42] <system5> the script just says: "Ermey improvises something here...."[06:56:44] <Shoggoth> kubrick was just about the most anal personal alive[06:57:02] <system5> yeah, that's the only time he ever let an actor improvise lines[06:57:08] <system5> in his entire film career[06:57:19] <Shoggoth> he kind of reminds me of theo de raat[06:57:38] <system5> Kubric or Ermey?[06:57:43] <Shoggoth> lmao[06:58:06] <Shoggoth> I was thinking kubric but I can see how you could get confused :)[06:59:02] <Shoggoth> my fav. theo posting: http://kerneltrap.org/OpenBSD/Virtualization_Security[06:59:13] *** relling has quit IRC[07:00:31] <system5> I am gunnary sergeant de raadt, if you ladies survive my OpenBSD hackathon island, you will be a weapon. You will be a minister of death, praying for war. But until that day you are pukes. You are the lowest form of life on Earth. You are not even human f#$%$#ng beings, you are nothing but unorganized grabastic pieces of amphibian sh!t.[07:02:50] *** tri2be has joined #opensolaris[07:03:13] <tri2be> Hi guys, what's the general status of 2010.03?[07:03:15] <system5> Because I am hard you will not like me. But the more you hate me the more you will learn about OpenBSD.[07:03:25] <tri2be> <3 OpenBSD[07:03:29] <Shoggoth> rofl[07:03:33] <Macer> system5: yeah but usually it is something a little more suttle ;)[07:03:34] <Andys^> classic post[07:03:47] <Macer> not totally screwed up chevrons with missing crossed rifles[07:03:50] <Macer> that's just wrong[07:03:51] *** easyE has quit IRC[07:03:57] <Shoggoth> heh.... Theo's actually not so bad[07:04:11] <Shoggoth> and he _is_ the kind of guy you want cutting kernel code[07:04:15] <tri2be> I'm running a SXCE file server and wanted to upgrade to 2010.03 when it was released, but seeing that it's delayed and with the recent change announcements from Oracle/Sun, I'm looking to possibly move to FreeBSD.[07:04:21] <Shoggoth> but you wouldn't want to have him around for dinner[07:04:39] <tri2be> I'd really like to rebuild my server soon, but it looks like the FreeBSD zfs/zpool implementation is quite behind the OS version.[07:04:40] <Macer> tri2be: i heared that zfs implementation is not as "stable" in fbsd[07:04:46] <Macer> but i haven't tried it myself[07:04:48] <tri2be> Yeah, I'm quite sure it's not =/[07:05:06] <tri2be> Theo is an amazingly good coder.[07:05:16] <tri2be> His social skills lack some, but meh...it works. Some devs like that.[07:06:04] <jamesd2> tri2be, run opensolaris /dev its much newer and is pretty stable... and is 99.9% of what will be in the next opensolaris stable.[07:06:04] <Shoggoth> I can vouch for that... I _have_ sat through dinner with him[07:06:44] <tri2be> Hmm, well the bottomline for me is that I want to rebuild my server within the next month or so. OpenSolaris OS 2010.03 seems delayed, and I'm none too happy with the recent Oracle/Sun announcements. I come from FreeBSD world anyway, so I'd be fine (and even happy) with the change, but the fact that the FreeBSD release (RELENG_8) implementation of zfs is so far behind concerns me.[07:06:59] <tri2be> Shoggoth: O RLY?[07:07:04] <tri2be> Shoggoth: How was it[07:07:05] <tri2be> ?[07:07:10] <tri2be> jamesd2: Hmm, I see[07:07:18] <Shoggoth> yes... he came to the AUUG conference back in.... '97 iirc[07:07:30] <tri2be> Shoggoth: Highlights?[07:07:32] <Shoggoth> I ended up being sat at the same table[07:07:35] <tri2be> Give me the low-down. I want the juicy bits.[07:07:56] <tri2be> If there was gay sex involved, leave those bits out.[07:08:04] <system5> I wouldn't move to FreeBSD just yet since it probably has an older version of ZFS than SXCE / OpenSolaris[07:08:07] <tri2be> Actually, on second though...detail those bits as much as possbile plzkthnx.[07:08:18] <tri2be> system5: Yes, it's much older =/[07:08:27] <Shoggoth> at the time I was fiddling around with VSTa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VSTa) and he proceeded to give me a dressing down[07:08:42] <Shoggoth> but actually he was OK despite what people say... I[07:09:02] <tri2be> OpenSolaris ZFS: File system version = 4, Pool version = 23[07:09:12] <tri2be> FreeBSD: File system version = 3, Pool version = 14[07:09:16] <tri2be> It's a bit behind =/[07:09:20] <Shoggoth> I've had some dealings with him since and he's actually quite ok... just don't say anything against what he feels passionately about[07:09:38] *** mroconnor has joined #opensolaris[07:10:12] <Andys^> tri2be: if you're mainly just wanting ZFS... just run one of the prerelease versions of 2010.03, no problems[07:10:23] <Shoggoth> at least he wasn't Hans Rieser[07:10:29] <tri2be> heh[07:10:43] <tri2be> Andys^: Yeah, I'll probably end up doing that.[07:10:52] <tri2be> I'm kind of an OpenSolaris newbie =/[07:10:59] <tri2be> Been using FreeBSD for a long time though.[07:11:08] <tri2be> Anyway, my file server is SXCE b89.[07:11:16] <Shoggoth> tri2be: what was it you said about 2010.03 being delayed?[07:11:23] <tri2be> RAID-Z2 on top of 6x750gb.[07:11:34] <tri2be> I want to upgrade it to the latest SXCE and redo the Active Directory integration.[07:11:55] <tri2be> That's the other thing...I'm not sure if I should go for the in-kernel cifs implementation, or if I should go for Samba.[07:12:00] <Andys^> tri2be: i was just like you. long time freebsd user, jumped to osol just for ZFS[07:12:04] <tri2be> I want to offer CIFS and if possible, iSCSI.[07:12:07] <gosx> Shoggoth: we're about 46 minutes away from 2010.04 in my timezone =P[07:12:16] <tri2be> Shoggoth: It's delayed[07:12:22] <tri2be> That's all I was saying :P[07:12:30] <Andys^> tri2be: samba works and if you're used to configuring it, its easier[07:12:34] <gosx> er, 1 day 46 minutes, damn nursery rhymes[07:12:37] <Shoggoth> tri2be: did you read that somewhere?[07:12:55] <tri2be> Not too keen on the announcement by Oracle/Sun either, about changing OpenSolaris to 90-day evaluation and developing the codebases seperately for S10 and SXCE.[07:13:09] <tri2be> Shoggoth: Nope, but we're about to hit 2010.04 :P[07:13:10] <hecsa> 2010.04? are you talking about the originally named 2010.02 release? ;-)[07:13:13] <lewellyn> smrt: explain 2010.03[07:13:14] <smrt> Um. I seem to not know anything about 2010.03...[07:13:16] <Shoggoth> gosx: I was trying to figure that out.... I'm GMT+11 and it's still just short of 8hrs away for me[07:13:16] <lewellyn> hm[07:13:58] <Shoggoth> tri2be: wtf? 90-day eval? where was this announced[07:14:00] <Shoggoth> t?[07:14:05] <tri2be> Andys^: Are you doing Active Directory integration with your file server?[07:14:05] <lewellyn> smrt: explain when 2010.03 will be released[07:14:06] <smrt> "When it's done." Originally scheduled for the end of March, but probably not until after then.[07:14:07] <Andys^> tri2be: no dude, they changed *Solaris* to 90 day eval. opensolaris is still completely free[07:14:13] <Andys^> tri2be: uhh.,. no :)[07:14:15] <tri2be> oops, my bad...type-o[07:14:26] <tri2be> I meant S10 is 90-day eval, which isn't so bad[07:14:28] <hecsa> what happens after the day #90?[07:14:29] <Shoggoth> Andys^: phew.... just about had a heart attack then[07:14:33] <tri2be> ...but in the long run, the codebases will diverge =/[07:14:35] <hecsa> it just stops working?[07:14:46] <tri2be> Since Oracle doesn't seem to want to cross-port between S10 & SXCE.[07:14:53] <Andys^> tri2be: its made zero difference to me.. i've only used opensolaris, which is already vastly more stable than freebsd. never felt the need to try something even more out of date (ie. solaris proper)[07:14:53] <tri2be> New shit will go into S10 and be kept propritary[07:15:03] <Shoggoth> well... I for one won't be paying for it[07:15:15] <Shoggoth> if I don't have access to the source..... no dice![07:15:24] <lewellyn> tri2be: um. that's not new. opensolaris only has open bits. solaris has always been planned to have the proprietary bits.[07:15:26] <tri2be> Shoggoth: /name RStallman[07:15:28] <tri2be> plzkthnx[07:15:38] <Shoggoth> lol... not quite[07:15:41] <lewellyn> look at all the stuff that "died" with sxce[07:15:45] <snuff-work> osol needs a bmc driver ;)[07:15:51] <Andys^> tri2be: i'll be very sad if that happens... will probably eventually have to go to linux or back to bsd :( however, i doubt it would have that bad an effect for a long time[07:15:52] <lewellyn> as snuff-work notes ;)[07:16:01] <Shoggoth> but I've been burnt too many times by vendors who withold source[07:16:12] <system5> what, Solaris 10 is no longer free?[07:16:17] <system5> who said that[07:16:18] <Shoggoth> I don't mind paying a reasonable amount of $$$[07:16:24] <Shoggoth> but I do wants my source[07:16:24] <system5> well you can't pay[07:16:30] <system5> I want to buy support right now[07:16:32] <system5> like this week[07:16:38] <system5> where do I go to buy it, you can't[07:16:43] <lewellyn> system5: at the moment it's a 90 day eval, and there's no easy way to buy it. it's likely just a way to buy oracle 90 days to figure out the path forward.[07:16:52] <Shoggoth> you can pay me... I'll support it :)[07:17:03] *** Gman has quit IRC[07:17:24] <hecsa> lewellyn: Do you know what happens after the day #90? It stops working, or it's a legal issue?[07:17:30] <lewellyn> oracle's in the middle of a huge acquistion. cut them some slack till they figure out what they have and their plans for it.[07:17:36] <lewellyn> hecsa: legal issue[07:17:45] <tri2be> heh[07:17:51] <lewellyn> essentially they stopped automatically sending out RTUs[07:17:53] <tri2be> Oracle has the well known sales shark tank[07:17:53] <system5> yeah, but I have to buy Solaris or OpenSolaris support by next week[07:17:56] <tri2be> They're really aggressive[07:18:04] <system5> or my business partner is going to spend his half of the support money on booze[07:18:05] <hecsa> lewellyn: thanks! This is the answer I needed about it.[07:18:14] <lewellyn> tri2be: note that they're not yet with sun's products. oracle is still integrating things[07:18:15] <system5> you think I'm joking[07:18:17] <lewellyn> it's been 2 months[07:18:28] <tri2be> Yeah I know[07:18:30] <hecsa> lewellyn: because of a guy who develops using S10 near me.[07:18:30] <Aria> system5: Invest it. In something just a little hard to withdraw from.[07:18:34] <lewellyn> that's like no time in the world of business[07:18:39] <system5> they can still sell Solaris support to people like me who want to buy it while they are "figuring things out"[07:18:42] <system5> why turn down my money?[07:18:51] <Aria> Because it involves commitment on their part.[07:18:57] <Aria> And they're not sure their commitment is worth your money.[07:19:00] <lewellyn> hecsa: afaict, if you have an RTU, nothing's changed aside from the support change previously communicated[07:19:05] <system5> like I said earlier, IBM would take my money and figure out what to do later[07:19:14] <lewellyn> system5: they apparently don't know how much they're charging for what yet[07:19:26] <system5> so I can't budget $324 for Solaris support[07:19:26] <lewellyn> they have to know the "how much" part[07:19:37] <hecsa> lewellyn: great! this is great! This news are very welcome![07:19:43] *** Fallen_Demon has joined #opensolaris[07:19:58] <lewellyn> let's just say that when i talked to oracle last week, they weren't willing to sell me a support contract at a sane price[07:20:08] <system5> ok[07:20:11] <system5> so for people like me[07:20:17] <system5> who are selling things based on OpenSolaris[07:20:18] <lewellyn> they WERE willing to sell me a support contract, but at an insane price, with the advice to wait a couple of weeks[07:20:27] <system5> support is out of the question[07:20:37] <system5> @lewellyn- what was the price they quoted you?[07:20:39] <system5> this is a big deal[07:20:52] <lewellyn> system5: lots of zeroes were involved[07:20:55] <system5> as I already negotiated a contract with the customer and are now moving on to the implementation phase[07:20:59] <system5> ok[07:21:06] <lewellyn> but i'd have support for everything oracle makes on any machine owned by the company![07:21:41] <hecsa> lewellyn: Is Oracle starting to charge like they do with the DB? (CPU based or concurrency based licenses)[07:21:43] <system5> so the only way is to do what my partner wanted to do which was to have the customer sign a waiver that they wouldn't sue us and then spend the money that we had budgeted for Solaris support contracts on booze then?[07:21:52] <system5> he wanted to spend his half of the $324 on booze[07:22:01] *** Thrae has quit IRC[07:22:02] <system5> I don't know what I'm going to do yet with my half[07:22:33] <lewellyn> hecsa: they aren't charging anything right now. they're still in the acquisition process. based on watching prior companies i've done business with getting acquired by oracle, this is perfectly normal and there's about another month left before things are back to normal[07:22:34] <Shoggoth> hookers and blow?[07:22:43] <system5> yeah[07:22:46] <system5> strippers maybe[07:22:56] <system5> well, I tried to give back to the OpenSolaris community, I really did[07:23:01] <Andys^> steak'n'strippers[07:23:05] <Andys^> ?[07:23:19] <lewellyn> system5: money to oracle doesn't directly benefit the community. code does ;)[07:23:23] <system5> but due to the Snorcle acquisition, I'm going to have to pocket all the money that we already budgeted to spend on support contracts with Sun[07:23:24] <Andys^> what was $324 supposed to buy you, anyway?[07:23:27] <system5> great[07:23:34] <system5> $324 was one year basic support, wasn't it?[07:23:37] <Andys^> really?[07:23:41] <system5> all I wanted was basic support[07:23:42] <Andys^> no wonder Sun didnt have enough money[07:23:43] <lewellyn> it was a bit more than that[07:23:45] <system5> like security patches[07:23:45] <Andys^> $324? wtf.[07:23:47] <lewellyn> not much though[07:23:57] <system5> it's basic support[07:24:01] <system5> gives you security patches[07:24:01] <tri2be> Wait, you're serious with the $324?[07:24:05] <system5> yeah[07:24:06] <Andys^> if Sun is charging anyone any amount that *I* can afford... they have got the pricing all wrong ;)[07:24:07] <tri2be> ...[07:24:12] <system5> what[07:24:15] <tri2be> ... x 5[07:24:20] <tri2be> $324 gets you what?[07:24:20] <lewellyn> Andys^: i expect a huge revamp of the support structure ;)[07:24:21] <system5> you didn't know that basic Solaris support was $324 a year?[07:24:24] <hecsa> lewellyn: well...I remember the licensing model from when I was working at Oracle. This is how they license SW products. Per CPU, or per connections, but I must consider that a DB, and App Server, or Collab Suite is VERY different than an OS.[07:24:26] <tri2be> 1 year of software support per install or something?[07:24:44] <lewellyn> hecsa: yeah. we'll see what happens in may[07:24:48] <tri2be> hecsa: Yes, Oracle sales & licensing generally sucks[07:24:52] <tri2be> They really rape you[07:24:58] <system5> $324 gets you security patches and some very low level basic e-mail support on a 2 socket system, I thought[07:25:01] <system5> am I wrong?[07:25:08] <tri2be> Microsoft has it per cpu, Oracle does per core last I checked.[07:25:16] <system5> $324 for one year basic support on a 2 socket system[07:25:26] <hecsa> lewellyn: I totally agree, I must remember the tale of the horse and the king. Let's wait until the horse learns how to talk, or the king dies :D[07:25:28] <lewellyn> hecsa: you probably have a vague idea of how much they wanted to charge me for an umbrella support contract for all oracle products as a multi-site license, then ;)[07:25:30] <tri2be> I actually like mssql[07:25:52] *** Thrae has joined #opensolaris[07:26:03] <system5> this is why I was actually going to buy large quantities of Solaris support contracts on all the 2 socket systems I'm deploying[07:26:20] <lewellyn> let's just say that if i had that many zeroes lying around, i'd be hiring people to hack on opensolaris code :P[07:27:03] <hecsa> lewellyn: I can imagine. Oracle Enterprise cost me almost U$5.000 per core. I work at Verizon, we have thousands of machines...imagine the amount of a contract like that...I, my future sons, and my future grandsons can live very well with the 10% of that amount, for the rest of their lives...[07:27:39] <tri2be> Hmm[07:27:42] <hecsa> lewellyn: cost me = cost Vz , of course :D[07:27:55] <tri2be> $5k per core for an Oracle Enterprise license?[07:27:58] <lewellyn> i think that was their way of trying to convince me to leave them alone for a few weeks... ;)[07:28:03] <hecsa> yeap...[07:28:07] <Shoggoth> lol.. that's cheap[07:28:19] *** lblume has joined #opensolaris[07:28:19] <tri2be> Well, that's actually cost competitive on a quad-core or less system, compared to mssql (which is cheap)[07:28:22] <Shoggoth> you should try out the licensing for any of Mentor's products[07:28:24] <Shoggoth> :)[07:28:25] <system5> so what was the Solaris support $$$ amount that Oracle is quoting right now on the phone[07:28:30] <system5> because I was going to call them tomorrow morning[07:28:39] <tri2be> Perpetual, unlimited license per cpu for mssql enterprise is like $25k[07:28:45] <lewellyn> system5: they weren't quoting me solaris support[07:28:45] <hecsa> yes, one Oracle DB core = two Alienware laptops fully made :D[07:28:49] <system5> I know somebody knows what it is, and I know it's not the $324 per year that it used to be[07:28:52] <system5> oh[07:28:55] <system5> what were they quoting?[07:29:00] <system5> OpenSolaris support?[07:29:00] <lewellyn> they were quoting me support for every product they make, on every system i may ever purchase[07:29:04] <Shoggoth> $324 is pretty damn good[07:29:08] <system5> yeah[07:29:14] <hecsa> mssql is not perpetual, it goes down at the first DataWarehouse implementation :D[07:29:14] <system5> Sun's support was the best bang for the buck[07:29:23] <lewellyn> it involved more zeroes than some countries have as GDP ;)[07:29:34] <Shoggoth> I remember one place I used to work... we supported a whole bunch of VLSI CAD guys and that was over $1m per annum[07:29:34] <system5> Sun was the most amazing company ever, it's just that their sales and marketing was innefectual at getting the word out[07:29:48] <system5> the $324 should have been in big gigantic letters on the front of Sun's page[07:29:51] <system5> so you couldn't miss it[07:29:59] <lewellyn> system5: their sales was often ineffectual at actually selling what you wanted to buy, too[07:30:06] <Andys^> $324 is about what i'd expect for say, a large academic institution[07:30:07] <system5> I KNOW!!!![07:30:16] <system5> I want to buy sun stuff[07:30:17] <Andys^> who is buying hundreds/thousands of licenses[07:30:17] <lewellyn> which is why oracle is a good thing ;)[07:30:24] <system5> but they make it so difficult for me to give them money!!!![07:30:31] <system5> ok[07:30:41] <system5> so I should just give up on Solaris support and run Solaris without it then[07:30:43] <lewellyn> i expect pricing to go up slightly overall, but i expect the offerings to scale accordingly[07:30:53] <system5> I realistically can't afford more than $350 a year, it cuts too much into my bottom line[07:30:54] <tri2be> lol, nevermind[07:31:00] <system5> I can just switch to FreeBSD or CentOS linux[07:31:00] <lewellyn> system5: dude. have you ever acquired a company?[07:31:02] <system5> and run for free[07:31:17] <lewellyn> you don't just go "oh yeah. they're part of us now" and that's that[07:31:20] <system5> I"m actually competing against other people bidding on my contracts who are using CentOS and FreeBSD[07:31:27] <lewellyn> and sun's a HUGE acquisition[07:31:27] <system5> and I need to be price competitice with them[07:31:32] <system5> yeah[07:31:41] <system5> but they could still keep selling Solaris while they figure out what the new price will be[07:31:42] <hecsa> does anybody have something about the other Sun products? Will there be a pay and a free version of VirtualBox, for example?[07:31:43] <lewellyn> give oracle a couple more weeks to sort out everything[07:31:43] <tri2be> Oracle Enterprise = $47,500 for a processor license[07:31:49] <lewellyn> hecsa: there already is[07:31:59] <system5> hopefully Oracle will never find out what VirtualBox is[07:32:01] <tri2be> Microsoft SQL Server 2008 Enterprise = $21,000 for a processor license[07:32:05] <lewellyn> i still say the pay version needs to be linked on virtualbox.org[07:32:06] <system5> and it will just keep getting developed as usual[07:32:13] <Fallen_Demon> system5, OSE edition is always there :3[07:32:18] <system5> MS-SQL is the most over-rated crap ever[07:32:24] <tri2be> How so?[07:32:26] <lewellyn> system5: oh, i suspect that oracle wants a piece of the desktop virtualization pie[07:32:30] <system5> I think IBM's DB2 is cheaper on WIndoze on x86[07:32:33] <Fallen_Demon> Postgres for the win ^_^[07:32:38] <lewellyn> system5: it's free on solaris ;)[07:32:40] <tri2be> I use it for a lot of low-to-mid end apps, which are like 75% of the paps.[07:32:42] <tri2be> *apps[07:32:45] <hecsa> yes, but I can download VirtualBox OSE without paying. My concern is if in the future there will be an community-driven only version, and an Oracle made version.[07:32:46] <tri2be> PostgreSQL rocks too.[07:33:00] <system5> yeah, I'm totally based on VirtualBox[07:33:06] <tri2be> system5: Yes, but db2 sucks for integration[07:33:06] <system5> man, I would really hate moving back to Linux[07:33:11] <tri2be> It's either mssql or oracle[07:33:20] <Fallen_Demon> Wait[07:33:30] <system5> what's so bad about DB2, what does "sucks for integration" mean?[07:33:31] <Fallen_Demon> If you're on Solaris why not use Zones?[07:33:33] <hecsa> PostgreSQL rocks! I have is running and replicating with Slony-1 in some of my machines, and work rock-solid![07:33:37] <system5> all the banks and stuff that are using it are fine[07:33:46] <tri2be> hecsa: Is Slony much better now?[07:33:50] <system5> I use VirtualBox to run all my Windoze and Linux apps on my OpenSolaris workstation[07:33:52] <tri2be> hecsa: Are you running master-slave or master-master?[07:34:01] <Fallen_Demon> Oh...[07:34:04] <Andys^> postgresql 9.0 includes built-in master-slave replication anyway[07:34:05] <hecsa> tri2be: yes, it works perfectly, with just a few lines of configuration[07:34:08] * lewellyn wanders off[07:34:13] <Fallen_Demon> How well does Windows run in a zone, I wonder[07:34:31] <system5> some Russians were trying to create a zone that runs Windoze[07:34:33] <hecsa> tri2be: master-slave, with a failover/switchover script set[07:34:36] <system5> look at the OpenSolaris forums[07:34:45] <system5> it was a ReactOS / Wine zone[07:35:05] <Fallen_Demon> Hrm, cool[07:35:06] <tri2be> hecsa: Ah ok[07:35:13] <system5> check out ReactOS[07:35:18] <system5> type it in to google[07:35:23] <Andys^> thats crazy[07:35:25] <tri2be> I'm curious about performance on master-master replication via Slony and/or the pgsql9 built-in support[07:35:39] <hecsa> tri2be: I didn't tried master-master...but give me two weeks, and I'll tell you ;-)[07:35:43] <Fallen_Demon> ReactOS looks promising :)[07:35:48] <tri2be> heh :)[07:35:56] <Andys^> i've done multi-master postgresql with pgpool-II[07:35:57] <system5> so has anybody talked on the phone to Oracle about getting OpenSolaris or Solaris support this week?[07:36:01] <system5> what did they say?[07:36:09] <tri2be> Ok, here comes a newbie question that's on topic...since I'm a relative OpenSolaris newbie.[07:36:17] <tri2be> What's the general upgrade procedure?[07:36:18] <system5> I need to have a decision finalized on whether or not to buy SOlaris / OpenSolaris support by this friday[07:36:25] <tri2be> I want to keep my array, and I'm updating to the /dev branch.[07:36:25] <system5> tribe[07:36:32] <system5> the upgrade procedure is: pkg image-update[07:36:38] <tri2be> I see.[07:36:40] <system5> but yout pkg authority command output[07:36:47] <system5> should have the /dev repository added first[07:36:56] <system5> if pkg authority doesn't list /dev[07:37:09] <system5> then you won't be able to pkg image-update to /dev[07:37:11] <tri2be> SunOS fs01 5.11 snv_89 i86pc i386 i86pc[07:37:16] <tri2be> That's what uname -a says right now.[07:37:23] <tri2be> Ah ok[07:37:25] <system5> what's your cat /etc/release[07:37:30] <system5> and what is your output for:[07:37:33] <system5> pkg authority[07:37:45] <Fallen_Demon> Ah, the good old days where I had an openSolaris box running Windows 2003 in VirtualBox just so I could watch movies[07:37:55] <tri2be> Solaris Express Community Edition snv_89 X86[07:38:00] <tri2be> That's cat /etc/release[07:38:04] <tri2be> Assembled 06 May 2008[07:38:06] <Andys^> thats ancient :)[07:38:07] <tri2be> lol[07:38:10] <system5> what do you use now Fallen Demon, VLC[07:38:12] <system5> tri2be[07:38:17] <tri2be> fs01@root:/root# pkg authority[07:38:17] <tri2be> CORRECT>pg authority (y|n|e|a)?[07:38:19] <tri2be> lol[07:38:20] <tri2be> Yeah[07:38:21] <Fallen_Demon> system5, I switched back to Linux[07:38:23] <hecsa> Fallen_Demon: Why use a M$2003 to watch movies?[07:38:24] <system5> you can use luupgrade to upgrade to a later SOlaris Express[07:38:27] <tri2be> Looks like I'm going to be wiping and cleaning[07:38:27] <Fallen_Demon> I needed to go wireless[07:38:40] <Fallen_Demon> And just haven't got back around to changing back yet XD[07:38:43] <system5> pkg image-update is only on OpenSolaris[07:38:53] <tri2be> Well, this is SXCE b89[07:38:59] <tri2be> What's the difference between SXCE & OpenSolaris?[07:39:04] <tri2be> Is OpenSolaris based on Indiana?[07:39:05] <system5> SXCE is like Solaris 10[07:39:08] <tri2be> I'm assuming it is[07:39:09] <system5> OpenSolaris = Indiana[07:39:12] <Fallen_Demon> OpenSolaris uses the GNU userland[07:39:13] <tri2be> That's what I thought.[07:39:15] <Fallen_Demon> I think <.<[07:39:19] *** ball has joined #opensolaris[07:39:19] <system5> well[07:39:21] <tri2be> k[07:39:26] <system5> GNU is first in your $PATH[07:39:29] <tri2be> So given what I have right now, what's the best course of action?[07:39:31] <Fallen_Demon> Yeah XD[07:39:40] <system5> you can change the $PATH variable and go back to the SXCE $PATH[07:39:45] <system5> but there's no CDE on Indiana[07:39:47] <tri2be> luupgrade or just export the array, format & install a fresh copy of the latest, and then import the array?[07:39:53] <system5> tri2be[07:39:56] <Fallen_Demon> I had all the Sun utilities installed and put first in my path[07:40:01] <system5> you need to find someone who has a DVD of a later SXCE[07:40:02] <Fallen_Demon> SunCC > gcc[07:40:04] <system5> and live upgrade[07:40:08] <system5> if you're set up to live upgrade[07:40:19] <tri2be> Hmm[07:40:23] <system5> SXCE uses live upgrade[07:40:24] <tri2be> Not sure that I am[07:40:24] <system5> google it[07:40:26] <tri2be> yeah[07:40:28] <system5> Ben Rockwood blogs about it[07:40:33] <system5> at www.cuddletech.com[07:40:35] <tri2be> Oh, luupgrade is live upgrade[07:40:36] <tri2be> Now I get it[07:40:46] <system5> Ben Rockwood's blog is all SXCE / Solaris Express stuff[07:40:59] <system5> he rarely ever mentions Indiana except a couple of times[07:41:06] <Fallen_Demon> I didn't use SXCE for very long, I switched to Indiana the week it was released[07:41:07] <system5> so that's where you would want to go[07:41:14] <system5> INdiana is better for a desktop[07:41:15] <tri2be> Well, would it be quicker and less complicated to export my zpool, format my system drive, install the latest /dev, and then reconfigure everything?[07:41:21] <Fallen_Demon> Took me forever to get my wireless card in my lappy working[07:41:23] <system5> but a pain in the #$@#$ for servers[07:41:38] <system5> test the latest /dev before you use it[07:41:51] <system5> tri2be, I would wait until 2010.03 comes out[07:41:52] *** heldchen has quit IRC[07:42:06] <tri2be> Hmm ok[07:42:18] <tri2be> When it comes out, just download & burn the DVD iso, and then fresh install it from there?[07:42:20] *** ozux has joined #opensolaris[07:42:37] *** ball has left #opensolaris[07:42:38] <tri2be> I can wait another month if that's how long it'll take for the next release to come out[07:42:51] <Fallen_Demon> It's not that different from b135, is it?[07:43:06] <tri2be> I just don't want to wait too long because this file server is ancient and because I'm going to be rebuilding my entire network in the next few weeks want to deal with all of this stuff at once.[07:43:09] <Fallen_Demon> I glossed over the changelog the other day, so I'm not entirely sure[07:43:56] *** davenz has left #opensolaris[07:44:32] <Nitial> I think the release is going to be based on b134[07:45:10] <Fallen_Demon> http://techie-buzz.com/foss/opensolaris-2010-03-are-we-there-yet.html This makes me a sad panda[07:45:45] <tri2be> Yep, saw that earlier[07:46:10] <Andys^> the last release was delayed by a month or so too, and that was nothing to do with oracle?[07:46:41] <tri2be> I hope it's released as 2010.04[07:46:53] <tri2be> I really want to upgrade and fix some minor, yet annoying, issues.[07:47:07] <Fallen_Demon> nwam pisses me off[07:47:17] <Aria> So don't use it?[07:47:19] <Aria> Or fix it?[07:47:23] <Fallen_Demon> :P[07:47:44] <Fallen_Demon> It works 90% of the time, sometimes it just inexplicably karks it[07:50:21] <tri2be> aight muh bro-mahs[07:50:35] <tri2be> I'm about to run down the street to the 24/7 Kroger to picks me ups a nice cut of steak[07:50:48] <tri2be> It's almost 2am here and I have a hankering for a nice juicy steak[07:51:24] <tri2be> gg, laters :)[07:51:26] *** tri2be has quit IRC[07:53:56] *** perlmongo has quit IRC[07:56:13] <CIA-21> Nikko He <Li.He at Sun dot COM>: 6933916 Should check if the NACA flag is set in uscsi path[07:58:09] *** Zauberpo1y has quit IRC[07:58:28] *** Zauberpony has joined #opensolaris[07:59:27] *** hajma has quit IRC[08:04:15] *** radsy has quit IRC[08:05:21] *** nikolam_ is now known as nikolam[08:07:44] *** Gekz_ has joined #opensolaris[08:10:47] <Gekz_> So, the prophecy has been fulfilled[08:10:53] <Gekz_> Oracle have made the mighty dick move.[08:11:02] *** g4lt-mordant has quit IRC[08:12:12] <lblume> And 10 years ago, Sun cancelled Solaris x86. Mistakes are made to be corrected :-)[08:12:34] <Gekz_> Sun was still owned by Sun 10 years ago, lol[08:12:44] *** hsp has joined #opensolaris[08:12:50] <Gekz_> I'm referring to this typo-ridden article[08:13:41] <lblume> Sun was owned by stockholders 10 years ago, and a stupid mistake is still a stupid msitake, whoever the management is.[08:14:09] <lblume> Anyway, got more urgent things to do than read typo-ridden articles about rehashed speculation.[08:15:25] *** g4lt-mordant has joined #opensolaris[08:16:55] *** deet has quit IRC[08:17:34] <system5> so anybody have any clues as to when we will be able to buy support for Solaris again and how much it will cost?[08:17:45] *** phimic has joined #opensolaris[08:17:50] *** aruntomar has joined #opensolaris[08:18:00] <lblume> The Magic 8 ball must know![08:19:07] <taemun> Try Later[08:21:43] *** gebi has joined #opensolaris[08:22:47] *** deet has joined #opensolaris[08:25:15] <system5> so I guess we should focus all of our resources on FreeBSD, Nexenta, Belenix, Milax, etc. from here on out?[08:25:29] *** d1b has joined #opensolaris[08:25:31] *** merzo has joined #opensolaris[08:25:58] <system5> this is too bad, 'cause me giving a $324 kick back on every server I deployed to sun would have probably been worth $30,000 a year[08:26:30] <Aria> I'd be focusing on OpenSolaris myself.[08:26:30] <system5> if they charge more than $400 I have to pay them zero and switch to another operating system[08:26:35] <system5> you think so?[08:26:42] <system5> OpenSolaris seems like it would be easier to criple[08:26:53] <system5> because Oracle can turn IPS into "the Red Hat Network"[08:26:58] <system5> and charge for IPS[08:27:04] <Aria> Ask the CentOS folks how that turned out.[08:27:18] <system5> yeah, but do we have enough resources in the community to keep a CentOS going?[08:27:25] <system5> for OpenSolaris?[08:27:51] <system5> with Solaris 10, once you got it running and got blastwave on it, you only have to worry about security patches, which I won't be getting anymore without support[08:28:10] <system5> there's no network repository so it's harder for them to hit you in the knee caps with a lead pipe[08:28:39] <system5> or the network repository is blastwave with isn't controlled by anyone except Dennis Clarke, and if blastwave goes down you can use that other one, OpenCSW or whatever it is, which is kinda the same[08:28:57] <Aria> I'd read the section on pkg set-authority.[08:29:18] <richlowe> The technical means aren't (mostly) the issue, it's willingness to do a vast amount of work.[08:29:36] <richlowe> we had this discussion earlier, re: security updates. Same applies to wholesale rebuilds, only more so.[08:29:46] <system5> I'm just saying, my experience with OpenSolaris is that I need to update a lot because it's kinda buggy, which puts me at the mercy of my support contract or whatever support I can get[08:29:56] <system5> whereas once Solaris 10 is working you can almost forget about it because it's so solid[08:30:10] <system5> just let it run and run and run forever and ever[08:30:12] <system5> with no reboot[08:30:15] <Andys^> system5: i think if it lost corporate support, all the enterprise features would grind to a halt and it would continue slowly as a desktop OS, developing at about the same pace as freebsd...[08:30:17] <Aria> That is the difference between running release and dev software, yes.[08:30:24] *** biant92 has joined #opensolaris[08:30:31] <system5> well even release, 2009.06[08:30:38] <system5> has it's problems[08:30:58] <system5> my favorite Indiana build so far has been snv_129 which was real solid once I got past some Apache configuration file bugs[08:31:02] <system5> and an IPS workaround[08:31:24] <system5> I have an snv_129 server that has uptime = to the time between now and when 129 was released[08:31:38] <system5> I do all the actual work in non global zones[08:31:53] <system5> this is what really scared me: http://www.cuddletech.com/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=1119[08:34:39] <Aria> Hehe. Yet more speculation.[08:35:36] <system5> what can they do if we have small two socket Solaris 10 and OpenSolaris systems already deployed but can't afford more than $400 per license?[08:35:44] <system5> besides denying security patches, what else could they do?[08:36:11] <system5> 'cause I already have a bunch of machines running with this OS on it[08:36:41] <Andys^> system5: well, the way Sun was operating wasn't sustainable.. so hopefully oracle will offer you something comprable, but either way, you're gonna have to shut up and put up ;)[08:36:53] <system5> but what I'm saying, is[08:36:54] *** _madmax_ has quit IRC[08:36:55] <madwizard> system5: They can declare your solaris 10 installations illegal[08:37:06] <system5> so if they're declared illegal, what could they do?[08:37:13] <system5> just give you an injunction to turn the machine off or what?[08:37:21] <nikolam> system5, Since you need obviously sec. updates for opensolaris release, maybe you can form a group that will do something about it? (and having some kind of security information flow to be fixed, etc)[08:37:34] <system5> I"m thinking about it[08:37:57] <Andys^> yeah but if opensolaris stops supporting the latest and greatest server hardware.. :([08:38:02] <system5> right now I"m kind of poor and over taxed working two full time jobs to keep my bills paid with a third side business of building and selling zfs storage servers[08:38:11] <system5> living in California is too expensive with taxes and the state going broke[08:38:33] <system5> I would love to code OpenSolaris full time if someone will let me live and sleep at their place for free and give me food :-)[08:38:48] <system5> I'll stand on the freeway with a sign[08:38:57] <system5> * will fork opensolaris for food *[08:38:58] <richlowe> Nobody knows what oracle will do, 'cept oracle[08:38:58] <richlowe> also, the terms for 10 (now) aren't that much worse than those for releases through 9[08:39:18] <nikolam> system5, well if all you need is zfs storage appliance, there is whole opensolaris spectrum of distributions[08:39:30] <richlowe> which were "non-commercial and uni-proc, or give us a lot of money", basically.[08:39:48] <Andys^> they're all sponging off the fact that Sun was paying good people to write drivers for things like SAS 2.0 HBAs and 10G NICs, and the latest Intel architectures/CPUs[08:40:26] <madwizard> system5: There is already a fork of OpenSolaris codebase, osunix[08:48:25] *** wrapster has joined #opensolaris[08:48:51] <wrapster> can anyone pls explain to me how to latest packaging system works in the onnv_builds?[08:49:11] <wrapster> Earlier we had svr4 format right.. now how does the pkgs get created?[08:49:23] <wrapster> it would be great if anyone can point out to any docs..[08:49:52] *** wrapster has left #opensolaris[08:50:10] <Aria> ... Fail.[08:50:24] *** wrapster has joined #opensolaris[08:50:40] <wrapster> sorry , got cut out..[08:51:13] *** Shoggoth has quit IRC[08:52:00] <richlowe> docs are referenced in the heads-up Liane sent.[08:52:14] <richlowe> and usr/src/pkg/README.pkg[08:52:32] <richlowe> and the KTD slides, I forget if the heads-up linked them, though.[08:53:57] <wrapster> richlowe: ok i'll look at it and get back to you.[08:56:21] *** darrenb has quit IRC[09:00:54] *** |AbsyntH| has joined #opensolaris[09:04:40] <wrapster> dlc.sun.com does not exist anymore?[09:05:15] *** Gekz has joined #opensolaris[09:05:35] *** Gekz_ has quit IRC[09:08:03] *** darrenb has joined #opensolaris[09:09:38] <richlowe> It resolves, the way it works has never been quite sane. You need at least http://dlc.sun.com/osol/ for it to do what you'd expect.[09:12:03] *** rogue780 has quit IRC[09:13:11] *** luc^ has joined #opensolaris[09:13:55] *** perlmongo has joined #opensolaris[09:16:44] *** Dagobert has quit IRC[09:24:04] *** raichoo has joined #opensolaris[09:28:32] *** hajma has joined #opensolaris[09:29:49] *** aruntomar has quit IRC[09:31:00] *** ozux has quit IRC[09:31:12] *** darrenb has quit IRC[09:33:58] *** darrenb has joined #opensolaris[09:40:28] *** Fallen_Demon has quit IRC[09:43:41] *** g4lt-mordant has quit IRC[09:45:55] <madwizard> Coffee[09:46:06] *** edogawaconan has joined #opensolaris[09:53:06] *** ozux has joined #opensolaris[09:53:44] <perlmongo> indeed[09:56:56] *** gebi has quit IRC[09:57:23] *** milek has joined #opensolaris[09:57:26] *** g4lt-mordant has joined #opensolaris[09:58:23] *** wrapster has quit IRC[10:00:32] *** darrenb has quit IRC[10:02:54] *** jollyd has joined #opensolaris[10:08:37] *** darrenb has joined #opensolaris[10:08:59] *** twisti has joined #opensolaris[10:09:54] *** Dagobert has joined #opensolaris[10:12:25] *** g4lt-mordant has quit IRC[10:13:30] *** Aria has quit IRC[10:15:05] *** jamesd2 has quit IRC[10:16:52] *** Jagoo is now known as dnaumov[10:17:07] *** Alasdair has quit IRC[10:17:09] <smyth_rj> anyone here on the OGB?[10:18:47] <madwizard> smyth_rj: try opensolaris-meeting[10:19:11] <smyth_rj> ah, thanks madwizard[10:19:22] <smyth_rj> smrt:explain oracle[10:19:50] <Kapsel> I just set up an iSCSI filesystem on my opensolaris box and use it on my mac pro.. however, I cant seem to get more than 70-80MB/s over gbit.. I can se my log device getting some beating, but afaik it (an intel X25-E) should be able to take ~150MB/s.. any ideas on where my bottleneck is?[10:19:56] <madwizard> smrt explain: oracle[10:20:02] *** Erwann has joined #opensolaris[10:20:08] <madwizard> It's asleep?[10:20:15] <madwizard> smrt: explain: Oracle[10:20:17] <smrt> Um. I seem to not know anything about explain: Oracle...[10:20:22] <madwizard> smrt: explain Oracle[10:20:22] <causality> smrt: explain oracle[10:20:22] <smrt> See http://www.sun.com/acquisition/company.jsp[10:20:25] <smrt> the company that killed Sun[10:20:35] <madwizard> :)[10:20:47] <causality> i am slightly nervous about building out my new file server on opensolaris now[10:20:51] <causality> i want data integrity for many years to come[10:21:00] <smyth_rj> dang too many :[10:21:07] <hali> nothing to worry about, as long as you get a support contract ;)[10:21:19] <smyth_rj> I didnt think oracle could hurt opensolaris just Solaris[10:21:32] <madwizard> smyth_rj: Oracle holds all keys to the code[10:21:53] <madwizard> If they decide not to accept external patches or not add new functionality to publicly available codebase,[10:21:57] <madwizard> OpenSolaris is a toast[10:22:13] <madwizard> And it seems that plan sometihng along the lines[10:22:24] <causality> is all of the opensolaris source available?[10:22:49] <madwizard> the hope is, the extra value they plan on not giving out is more around GUI tools[10:22:52] <madwizard> causality: So far[10:23:36] *** tsoome has quit IRC[10:23:53] <smyth_rj> oracle compatability and tweaks[10:23:57] <causality> madwizard so surely it'll just fork ouff[10:24:02] <causality> and become another product[10:24:20] <smyth_rj> so the community can only at this stage create patches and additional features etc[10:24:34] <smyth_rj> not put it into the opensolaris distribution?[10:24:52] <madwizard> smyth_rj: You can go through sponsor/arc/review/accept livecycle[10:24:54] <causality> that'd most likely mean it'd end up junk like lunix though[10:25:21] <madwizard> causality: The is a kind of a fork - osunix.org[10:25:34] <madwizard> However it is in vegetational state now[10:26:03] <madwizard> I don't know if other *working* community distros are forks, I think not. Belenix, Shilinx (or whatever).[10:28:46] *** mecatsun has quit IRC[10:29:17] *** mecatsun has joined #opensolaris[10:31:02] *** _madmax_ has joined #opensolaris[10:31:34] *** jollyd has left #opensolaris[10:32:22] <smyth_rj> AuroraUX perhaps > http://bit.ly/9OPkzx[10:33:41] *** easyE has joined #opensolaris[10:36:03] <lewellyn> smyth_rj: auroraux is based on bsd[10:36:12] <lewellyn> AuroraUX is a suite of high-integrity applications, libraries and user tools and a distribution of DragonFly.[10:36:16] <lewellyn> from http://auroraux.org/[10:37:05] <smyth_rj> yeah, what is that about?[10:37:35] <lewellyn> they're trying to find something that will welcome rewriting the userland in ada, most likely[10:38:00] <smyth_rj> thats the one opensolaris.org links to as well!?[10:38:20] <lewellyn> no clue. i haven't paid much attention to auroraux[10:38:48] * lewellyn heads back to bed[10:42:08] *** chemosh has joined #opensolaris[10:42:29] *** MattMan has joined #opensolaris[10:42:57] *** boyd has joined #opensolaris[10:43:23] *** nitrile has quit IRC[10:44:46] *** zedrich has joined #opensolaris[10:44:52] *** timsf has joined #opensolaris[10:44:57] <zedrich> ok .. how does dns resolution work again? heh[10:45:05] <zedrich> i fixed it and it broke again ..[10:45:11] <zedrich> nsswitch.dns -> conf[10:45:42] <Dagobert> right[10:46:11] <zedrich> still not working[10:46:15] <zedrich> at this point...[10:46:17] <smyth_rj> svcadm restart network/physical:default ?[10:46:19] <Dagobert> Did you set up /etc/resolv.conf[10:46:26] <zedrich> yeah resolv.conf works[10:46:31] <zedrich> is correct, rather.[10:46:36] <Dagobert> So nslookup www.google.com works?[10:46:37] <zedrich> i erased a line in /etc/hosts[10:46:43] *** Alasdairrr has joined #opensolaris[10:46:52] <zedrich> nslookup just hangs[10:47:05] <Dagobert> Can you ping the DNS server in resolv.conf?[10:47:42] *** RoyK has quit IRC[10:47:46] <zedrich> ghah[10:47:49] <zedrich> gateway wrong[10:47:56] <zedrich> sorry .. just had problems before and ..[10:47:57] <zedrich> well..[10:48:03] * zedrich cries in corner[10:48:11] <zedrich> thanks though :)[10:48:14] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris[10:48:30] *** aszeszo has joined #opensolaris[10:50:08] <zedrich> so .. using the GUI network admin tool[10:50:15] <zedrich> i have 2 interfaces... 2 differnt virtual networks[10:50:20] <zedrich> one is 10/24[10:50:30] <zedrich> the other is 192.168/16 with a gateway (my LAN) of .1[10:50:38] <zedrich> i keep resetting it and saving... doesnt do anything[10:50:46] <zedrich> where is the authoritative gateway listed?[10:50:58] *** Tom-W has joined #opensolaris[10:51:31] <Dagobert> You mean the default gateway? /etc/defaultrouter[10:51:38] <Dagobert> Check with netstat -nr[10:51:57] <Tom-W> is opensolaris going to be released any time soon ? 2010.03 that is?[10:52:23] <tsoome> read /topic[10:52:30] <zedrich> hmm this doesnt look right..[10:53:52] <Tom-W> when its ready? hahaha.. in other words you dont know when it will be released[10:53:54] <Tom-W> bye[10:53:56] *** Tom-W has quit IRC[10:54:16] *** |AbsyntH| has quit IRC[10:54:22] <zedrich> so rude[10:54:43] <tsoome> another linux zealot[10:55:02] <zedrich> why would one be enviable of a kernel? :D[10:55:42] *** Gekz has quit IRC[10:55:57] <zedrich> what I can believe is how ridiculous the religion is.. ZFS hasnt been ported to linux yet cuz... the license isnt GPL? like wha?[10:55:57] *** Gekz has joined #opensolaris[10:59:02] <Alasdairrr> It's not religion, it's legal.[10:59:09] <Alasdairrr> The licenses are legally incompatible.[11:00:00] <Dagobert> http://blogs.sun.com/chandan/entry/copyrights_licenses_and_cddl_illustrated[11:00:16] <Dagobert> Note the red asterisk on GPL[11:00:59] <zedrich> one can build linux kernel modules that are not GPL right[11:01:32] <zedrich> its just another FS.. true, it would have to be distributed as a patch or module only but ..[11:01:39] <zedrich> its still possible without legality[11:01:51] <zedrich> not that Im debating anything[11:01:54] <zedrich> just saying.. :)[11:02:15] <zedrich> linux supports many different FSs unless the architecture is completely half witted ZFS should be pluggable..[11:02:25] <zedrich> i know thats what FUSE is all about but thats userspace.. not so great[11:02:33] <Stric> except that ZFS replaces half of the architecture[11:02:57] <Stric> You apparently has no idea how ZFS works, but still makes high statements about how easily it can be plugged in everywhere[11:03:09] <Stric> That's usually called "trolling"[11:03:14] <Alasdairrr> I'm personally very glad that ZFS hasn't made it into Linux. Solaris/OpenSolaris has a fantastic number of other advantages not present on Linux (Like Zones, SMF, Liveupgrade/boot environments) and ZFS gets Linux people to try Solaris, then they discover these other great features.[11:03:30] <zedrich> dont forget crossbow :)[11:03:41] <Alasdairrr> Yes indeedy![11:03:48] <Alasdairrr> Crossbow/rbridges/comstar[11:03:50] <zedrich> Im just not religious ..[11:03:57] <tsoome> i dont think linux should be able to steal technology either:P[11:04:10] <tsoome> let them sit on gpl and be happy there:P[11:04:14] <zedrich> sounds like your zealouts on the solaris front... maybe i should be too.[11:04:17] <CosmicDJ> you can't steal smth that's free...[11:04:19] <zedrich> all things considered.[11:04:50] <zedrich> i work at oracle so .. getting a little multiple personality around those parts :D[11:04:57] *** xtrondo has joined #opensolaris[11:05:29] <tsoome> well "borrow". ie. you cant come out with your own technologies, so you copy others and ones you cant copy you will start to spread FUD:P[11:05:32] <tsoome> ;)[11:05:33] <Nemesis> does anyone have a clue what 4 or 5 port usb expansion card brand/model will work with opensolaris[11:05:49] <Nemesis> i am having a difficult time finding one in the hardware compatibility list..[11:05:58] <RoyK^> what's the name of this file archiving system in solaris again for storing less used files on slower media etc?[11:06:15] <Stric> SAM?[11:06:34] <tsoome> uhm, when i did need usb ports on my old ultra10, i went to shop, bought pci card with usb slots on it and it "just" did work:)[11:06:44] <RoyK^> sam-qfs, I think, yes[11:07:10] <causality> zedrich why should everything be shared?[11:07:18] <Stric> Nemesis: There are like 3 different USB chipsets in the world..[11:07:44] *** master_of_master has quit IRC[11:07:53] <Stric> Sorry.. 4.. uhci/ohci for usb1, ehci for usb2 and whatitsname for usb3[11:07:57] <Nemesis> ok..well the one I cannot get to work is te VT6212l[11:08:11] <Nemesis> i already have a card, but opensolaris does not like it[11:08:22] <tsoome> does it require special drivers in windows?[11:08:42] <Nemesis> not sure, never installed it on a winblows box[11:08:53] <Stric> If so, you seem to have gotten one of the very few that has invented its own standard[11:08:59] <Nemesis> there are windows drivers for it though..i notices[11:09:00] <Nemesis> d[11:09:54] *** master_of_master has joined #opensolaris[11:10:46] <zedrich> cas: I guess many of us look at open source as unified... public / private. guess it could be factions within each...[11:11:48] *** ionizer has quit IRC[11:12:04] *** held has joined #opensolaris[11:12:08] *** rulereric has joined #opensolaris[11:12:11] <tsoome> well, even for windows 7 it needs drivers. so it means you need to have special driver for any other system as well and its not using standard interfaces. probably out of luck.[11:12:18] *** ionizer has joined #opensolaris[11:12:55] <Nemesis> hmm[11:13:01] *** Gekz has quit IRC[11:13:02] *** Brendan__ has joined #opensolaris[11:13:06] <Nemesis> where did you see that the card needed drivers for windows 7?[11:13:12] <tsoome> google[11:14:03] <Nemesis> i highly doubt they wrote a driver for it for opensol[11:14:10] <Nemesis> very doubtful[11:14:16] <tsoome> just entered that VT6212l into google and there are many links for driver downloads[11:14:37] <tsoome> and yes, as you already hinted, they have problems with it with linux as well[11:14:56] <Nemesis> yep..but I did see someone who got it to work on ubuntu[11:14:58] <zedrich> so .. sharesmb=on is actually samba[11:15:01] <zedrich> not the CIFS stuff[11:15:07] <tsoome> you need pcie-usb?[11:15:14] *** Yu\2 has joined #opensolaris[11:15:19] <Nemesis> yea...old machine...[11:15:23] <tsoome> or pci(-x) - usb?[11:15:29] <Nemesis> i have 1 pci slot available[11:15:37] <Nemesis> the difference?[11:15:44] <Nemesis> i just need a pci usb card[11:16:08] <RoyK^> zedrich: sharesmb != samba[11:16:16] *** Mick27 has joined #opensolaris[11:16:17] <RoyK^> zedrich: that's the CIFS stuff[11:17:40] *** MuffiXXL has joined #opensolaris[11:18:30] <zedrich> hmm[11:18:43] <zedrich> is everything integrated auth?[11:18:48] <Nemesis> well...at any rate..I can find little to no opensolaris support for the card[11:18:50] <zedrich> with cifs and local then?[11:19:04] <Nemesis> i found a few questions without answers thoug[11:19:07] <RoyK^> depends how you configure it :P[11:19:21] <Nemesis> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-discuss/2008-September/043332.html[11:19:37] <zedrich> RoyK^: haha[11:20:29] <RoyK^> afaik standard cifs uses opensolaris accounts[11:20:41] <RoyK^> but you can configure it to use NIS/YP or AD or standard LDAP or what you like[11:20:51] <zedrich> hmmm Im unable to auth with my standard regular user[11:21:01] <zedrich> RoyK^: right, thats integrated[11:21:04] <RoyK^> that is, NIS/YP won't require any particular config[11:21:14] <zedrich> unable to auth to a share that is owned by the same user[11:21:20] *** held has quit IRC[11:21:22] <zedrich> afaik the share does exist..[11:21:38] <zedrich> this machine auths/connects to a linux samba machine just as well[11:22:06] <RoyK^> wierd - worked well last I tested CIFS[11:22:07] *** kokotier has joined #opensolaris[11:22:17] <zedrich> yeah same here..[11:22:18] <Nemesis> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-hardware-18/problem-vt6212-chipset-4-port-usb-pci-card-594514/ <--- Here for ubnuntu it shows that its not the chipset that is the issue, it is the actual card vendor..[11:22:24] <RoyK^> if in a hurry, switch to samba :þ[11:22:29] <Randello> anyone does know where webmin logs his logs ?[11:22:36] <Nemesis> this card I have..is an unknown vendor[11:22:54] <Nemesis> rather than play with this pile of dung, why not just buy one that is supported by opensol[11:22:55] <zedrich> http://pastebin.com/GM5pwXvf[11:23:01] <RoyK^> Randello: #webmin?[11:23:04] <causality> is CIFS performance on opensolaris comparable to on windows itself?[11:23:14] <Nemesis> but that was the issue..I could not find one that was supported by opensol[11:23:32] <RoyK^> causality: even samba is comparable to windows performance[11:23:49] <kokotier> http://www.cuddletech.com/blog/[11:24:06] <zedrich> i havent tested it but samba is fast... i feel like samba-samba is probably the fastest config.[11:24:08] <RoyK^> zedrich: you can ignore that warning[11:24:21] <tsoome> zedrich: what build of opensolaris?[11:24:24] <zedrich> thats a warning? heh[11:24:33] <zedrich> root@ostest1:~# uname -a[11:24:33] <zedrich> SunOS ostest1 5.11 snv_111b i86pc i386 i86pc Solaris[11:24:35] <RoyK^> or notice[11:24:45] <zedrich> its 2009.06[11:24:48] <RoyK^> oh - CIFS on 111b is _not_ very good[11:24:57] <tsoome> well, thats ages old and in kernel smb is way too buggy there[11:24:57] <zedrich> with the patches[11:25:05] <zedrich> I had to install all the SMB stuff[11:25:10] <zedrich> hrm[11:25:16] <RoyK^> paid support?[11:25:18] <zedrich> whats the solution? Ive always just installed samba[11:25:33] <zedrich> paid support?[11:25:37] * RoyK^ votes for samba - it works[11:25:37] *** ivo_ has joined #opensolaris[11:25:49] <tsoome> you can switch to /dev, you can use samba while 2010 will be there[11:25:50] <zedrich> ok guess Ill just config that then..[11:25:50] <RoyK^> zedrich: if you pay for osol support, you get a bunch of fixes[11:25:57] <zedrich> installed the packages and got an smb.conf[11:26:02] <zedrich> RoyK^: oh heh[11:26:20] <zedrich> thats weird that they release fixes for paid support .. shrug[11:26:34] <tsoome> ?[11:26:34] <RoyK^> it's like, what, $150 per server?[11:26:38] <zedrich> open source is more like ... ya have to keep things prety current so taht it gets testing[11:26:39] <RoyK^> not a whole lot[11:26:44] <zedrich> uhm, right.[11:26:58] <tsoome> if you dont wanna pay, you have option to switch to /dev[11:27:01] <zedrich> depends on your spin to the whole thing :D[11:27:14] <RoyK^> /dev works well[11:27:18] <zedrich> yeah i guess i need to switch to /dev at some point.. right now Im developing a POC[11:27:20] <madwizard> Also, if you don't wanna pay, you can switch to other OS[11:27:29] <zedrich> and solaris has all the coolness I need. and vbox[11:27:40] <zedrich> madwizard: h0h0h0[11:28:02] <RoyK^> I was having some problems and blaming them on xvm appearently causing reboots, but it was hardware failure - heh[11:28:04] <tsoome> keep in mind the opensolaris is not "released" os, it has no real release quality yet.[11:28:32] <RoyK^> tsoome: I'd guess osol+paid support should be "release" quality[11:28:41] <tsoome> the builds in /release branch are more stable etc, but its still beta[11:28:43] <zedrich> i remember when I got into linux back in 1996 for college.. $20 got you c, modula, pascal compilers. multitasking. that was back when the best thing you could get was like what... NT 3.51?[11:28:44] <tsoome> naa[11:28:52] <tsoome> well, i cant tell about support[11:29:03] <tsoome> because i dont use one myself[11:29:38] <zedrich> minix? how much was a super slow IPC back then? yeah .. exactly[11:29:40] <tsoome> but tbh, i doubt a lot. you still have that 111b build with its base packages etc[11:29:56] <tsoome> but ok, someone with support should tell[11:30:01] <Nemesis> tsoome oh you meant pci express or normal pci[11:30:12] <Nemesis> just a normal pci card was all[11:30:22] <tsoome> yea, have you looked on belkin cards?[11:30:30] <Nemesis> ill look[11:30:31] <Nemesis> thx[11:30:51] <tsoome> i did try to google a bit, but not too many technical details around[11:31:33] <Nemesis> yea..its a tough find[11:31:50] <Nemesis> i appreciate your help but dont worry about it[11:31:51] <tsoome> but anyhow, what you need is that card must use standard EHCI interface, and if the vendor is offering drivers for common windows systems (xp, etc), then its an bad sign[11:31:54] *** held has joined #opensolaris[11:32:00] <Nemesis> ok[11:32:28] <Nemesis> you mean if the vendor is "not"[11:32:36] <Nemesis> right?[11:33:31] <tsoome> no, modern osses have drivers for EHCI, so if card is ehci compliant, you dont need any special vendor driver, the built in will do[11:34:02] <Nemesis> ic[11:34:59] *** g4lt-mordant has joined #opensolaris[11:36:01] *** held has quit IRC[11:36:14] <tsoome> hmmmmm[11:36:23] <Nemesis> this looks like the card I already have[11:36:28] <Nemesis> it sais its EHCI compliant[11:36:37] <Nemesis> http://www.allaboutadapters.com/5usb20adcafo.html[11:37:15] <Nemesis> those belkin cards are upwards around 75 bux[11:39:42] <zedrich> i can help but notice[11:39:49] <Nemesis> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4427115&CatId=511[11:39:53] <zedrich> that opensolaris ships with Gnome, QT, etc etc[11:40:04] <zedrich> all open source, GPL, typically 'linux' stuff[11:40:39] <sivanov__> http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-6-PORT-NEC-USB-2-0-HUB-HIGH-SPEED-480MB-PCI-CARD_W0QQitemZ120550511065QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c115ed1d9[11:40:51] <RoyK^> and so?[11:41:05] <RoyK^> would it be better if it was running CDE?[11:41:19] <zedrich> well i dunno you guys get all over linux[11:41:28] <zedrich> its fair from a services / backend perspective[11:41:41] <zedrich> but its helped bring OSOL along quite a lot on the desktop[11:41:48] <Nemesis> will that card work with opensol sivanov__ ?[11:41:54] <zedrich> guess like i was saying.. i dont get the religion[11:41:58] <Nemesis> that kina looks like the card I already have..[11:42:05] <Nemesis> +a port[11:42:16] <Nemesis> mine is only 5 port...4 out 1 in[11:42:40] <RoyK^> zedrich: I guess it's mostly religion, and I guess most ppl in here has a linux box or two[11:43:01] <RoyK^> or a mac[11:43:04] <zedrich> well i dunno.. guess I havent been a sysadmin for a decade so .. aint that close to the action any more[11:43:06] <ivo_> I tried linux yesterday[11:43:10] <RoyK^> or a windows machine[11:43:12] <ivo_> it blowed its boot volume[11:43:14] <zedrich> operating systems are utilities in most ways.[11:43:14] <ivo_> :D[11:43:17] <causality> zedrich here here ;)[11:43:51] <RoyK^> ivo_: heh - I guess _you_ blowed it ;)[11:43:52] <RoyK^> or bew[11:43:59] <RoyK^> blew[11:44:02] <zedrich> causality: what that Im not a sysadmin? right.. Im a product / tools / infra development manager at ... drum roll... oracle, since BEA acquisition[11:44:02] <ivo_> nope[11:44:08] <ivo_> I've just shutdown my PC[11:44:13] <ivo_> and this morning[11:44:17] <ivo_> was nobody there[11:44:21] <zedrich> Im only even doing this stuff cuz its a home project ... sort of inspired by some stuff we did at work[11:44:47] <causality> a lot of people cant see beyond sysadmin[11:45:04] * causality is an enterprise architect[11:45:09] <zedrich> hmmm[11:45:28] <RoyK^> ivo_: having first played, than worked, with linux since 1994 or so, I still haven't seen that....[11:45:35] *** swift has joined #opensolaris[11:45:43] <zedrich> many layers to that but yeah .. i dont do IT, product dev so its more ... limited i guess[11:46:01] <ivo_> RoyK^ it is strange to me too[11:46:05] <zedrich> limited and yet suits, its mostly about innovation[11:46:14] *** biant92 has left #opensolaris[11:46:15] <ivo_> but I gues has something to do with the Fake RAID card[11:46:34] <ivo_> but for now I am sticking with osol[11:46:36] <causality> zedrich i dislike the paperwork but it's a necessary step to become the big chief[11:46:39] <RoyK^> ivo_: hammers are dangerous, if you aim badly, you may hit your thumb or even your balls[11:46:42] <zedrich> causality: know of any SOAP service impls for ZFS? :D[11:46:57] <zedrich> causality: .. dont forget powerpoints[11:46:59] <causality> zedrich: we're phasing out Sun[11:47:12] <tsoome> good for you:P[11:47:28] <tsoome> and bad news for your data:P[11:47:29] <causality> zedrich: and oracle rdms[11:47:37] <zedrich> causality: oh.. *shrug*[11:47:44] <causality> i dont make those decisions :)[11:47:45] <zedrich> aint like earnings are worrying much[11:48:07] <zedrich> but enterprise stuff gets more and more static .. placid and glass ceilinged[11:48:12] <causality> oracle 11 is still available as an exception technology[11:48:14] <zedrich> consulting is good tho[11:48:22] <causality> yes, we have architecture patterns[11:48:23] <zedrich> causality: at cisco or something?[11:48:30] <causality> no, a company larger than cisco[11:48:31] <tsoome> causality: thats easy thing to say. i dont make decisions, so i dont have to worry.[11:48:34] <zedrich> causality: that is an overloaded term[11:48:46] *** xtrondo has quit IRC[11:48:54] <causality> tsoome: when your IT dept has maybe 20,000 people, it's not so easy.[11:49:26] <tsoome> Nemesis: funny thing is that opensolaris ehci driver actually even got some workarounds for VIA VT62x2[11:49:31] *** xtrondo has joined #opensolaris[11:49:40] <zedrich> causality: what I found out about the internet is what MS found out a long time ago... that there are many more people working for 10k person companies than for 100k perosn companies[11:49:52] <causality> i agree completely[11:50:04] <causality> when i worked at microsoft there were abot 58k people[11:50:08] <zedrich> therefore the spectrum of 'life' isnt always agreed upon :)[11:50:14] <causality> since then i've worked at 130k and 250k places[11:50:20] <causality> and it does get progressively worse.[11:50:44] <causality> i had a lot of power over tech in my area at msft[11:50:48] *** evik has joined #opensolaris[11:50:50] <tsoome> but they mention VT6202[11:51:17] <causality> the entire emea hosting infrastructure was designed by me and another guy from 2002-2006 or so[11:51:18] <Nemesis> hmmm[11:51:33] <tsoome> http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/uts/common/io/usb/hcd/ehci/ehci.c[11:51:34] <zedrich> its sinusoidal .. hard to imagine that when you get kinda big that a great idea is to buy Sun stuff cuz you have 6 guys to admin it. when you get bigger buying a cluster of vmware stuff running windows might scale better cuz sourcing MS admins is easier.. then bigger than that might be back to Sun cuz you need the heavy metal biz critical stuff like 11g to run (cisco) .. then back to windows cuz you got something to replace that.. heh[11:51:59] <causality> windows and linux are our core OS's[11:52:11] <causality> transactional pattern is IHS+WAS+MSSQL[11:52:31] <causality> must dash, bbl[11:52:31] <zedrich> websphere?[11:52:40] <zedrich> wtf is IHS heh[11:52:43] *** calumb has joined #opensolaris[11:52:45] <Nemesis> 72 /* Enable all workarounds for VIA VT62x2 */[11:52:45] <Nemesis> 73 uint_t ehci_vt62x2_workaround = EHCI_VIA_WORKAROUNDS;[11:53:08] <Nemesis> interesting[11:53:22] <Nemesis> so its probably not the chip..its the card manufacturer[11:53:38] <Nemesis> thats what that guy on the ubuntu forum was saying[11:53:49] *** ganbold has quit IRC[11:54:18] <zedrich> vbox + opensolaris is pretty badass, must say.[11:54:24] <zedrich> i shoulda saved up and bought sun[11:54:31] *** dalibor has joined #opensolaris[11:54:54] <tsoome> bought sun? instead of oracle buying it?:P[11:55:14] <zedrich> tsoome: yeahp. oracle aint good.[11:55:21] <zedrich> speaking as an employee haha[11:55:22] <tsoome> agree:P[11:56:32] <Nemesis> http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-6-PORT-NEC-USB-2-0-HUB-HIGH-SPEED-480MB-PCI-CARD_W0QQitemZ120550511065QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c115ed1d9 <--- see this card here...The chip is supported by opensol, but people have problems with the syba brand[11:56:34] <RoyK^> would microsoft be better?[11:56:46] <zedrich> ms wouldnt have bought sun[11:56:55] <zedrich> better... hmmm[11:57:06] <zedrich> better woulda been sun figuring it out i guess[11:57:16] <forquare> I mused at the idea of Apple buying Sun...[11:57:16] <zedrich> oh well... keeps us here in silicon valley rolling somehow[11:57:21] <tsoome> RoyK^: cant say. US corporations tend to suck:P[11:57:23] <zedrich> they coulda yeah[11:57:34] <zedrich> tsoome: tend to own everything too[11:58:00] <RoyK^> tsoome: I don't think it's US corporations in general, just large corporations[11:58:09] <tsoome> agree[11:58:24] <zedrich> obviously most innovative place in the world[11:58:35] <zedrich> not that the girls here are hot[11:58:37] <zedrich> heh[11:58:47] <tsoome> well, its usually businessman versus tech guy.[11:58:50] <tsoome> :)[11:59:00] <zedrich> tsoome: watch out when they work together[11:59:26] <zedrich> google / apple couldnt have bought sun .. old school big corp doesnt merge well into the creative agilist types[11:59:56] <forquare> I loved working in Sun for my industrial year. I was working at GMP. The tech guys were really good, always up for a chat about something, and always willing to explain stuff. It was always a great atmosphere[12:00:35] <zedrich> funny.. same at BEA[12:00:41] <zedrich> but both went to the big O in the sky[12:01:00] *** ivo_ has quit IRC[12:01:04] <forquare> :([12:01:37] <zedrich> i woulda left eons ago[12:01:44] <zedrich> but market is so slow it requires a pay cut[12:03:08] <Nemesis> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-hardware-18/problem-vt6212-chipset-4-port-usb-pci-card-594514/ <--- See this guy here...pretty much cleared this up. Finding a compatible card is pretty much an uncertain process due to the generic parts that are on the card besides the chipset[12:03:08] *** MuffiXXL has quit IRC[12:03:26] <zedrich> http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-q3-2008/3DMark-Vantage-CPU,817.html[12:04:19] <Nemesis> windows just picks most of this crap up and runs it[12:04:42] <Nemesis> if not a driver is designed for it...but those of us out here in nix land are pretty much on our own with no vendor support[12:04:43] <zedrich> hmm[12:04:53] <zedrich> do you have any windows licenses?[12:04:57] <zedrich> run vbox[12:04:59] <zedrich> and try it[12:05:07] <zedrich> be interresting to see if the USB is pass through at that level[12:05:12] <zedrich> prob not but .. could be[12:06:41] <kokotier> [12:08:56] <zedrich> do you have any windows licenses?[12:06:47] <kokotier> winodws trial[12:06:59] <kokotier> 30 days[12:09:41] <CosmicDJ> solaris trial, 90 days ;)[12:11:57] *** iFire has quit IRC[12:12:39] <madwizard> CosmicDJ: :)[12:15:29] *** ganbold has joined #opensolaris[12:15:40] *** The-spiki has joined #opensolaris[12:16:13] <CosmicDJ> btw, does it stop to run after 90 days?[12:16:52] <madwizard> I believe not, but it becomes illegal[12:17:42] <madwizard> Of course, if I understand all this.[12:17:57] <madwizard> In such moments English as second language is... troublesome[12:18:55] *** chendy has quit IRC[12:20:39] *** mroconnor has quit IRC[12:21:03] <g4lt-mordant> I hve yet to hear of anyone with direct experience here. best I saw was someone that dl'd sol10, and their entitlement email never got to them (what a surprise there, I was getting about 20% when sun promised one with every dl)[12:21:45] <g4lt-mordant> but I'm going to go right ahead and say that if you pull genunix's copy of opensolaris, you don't have such an agreement[12:22:25] *** iFire has joined #opensolaris[12:23:06] <g4lt-mordant> so your yammering is helping nobody, cleasrly speculation in a no-speculation zone, and offtopic to boot[12:25:44] <madwizard> yammering?[12:26:09] <zedrich> hmmm smb confusion was around windows 7 not having clear error messages. nice.[12:26:52] <g4lt-mordant> madwizard, yes, yammering. I was being polite for a change[12:26:54] <Nemesis> spammering?[12:27:10] * Nemesis goes with the flow[12:27:50] *** Andrew3 has joined #opensolaris[12:28:12] *** The-spiki has quit IRC[12:28:27] <Nemesis> uhhh..so im transferring stuff to my opensol server right? via ftp....and there is a slight pause during each transfer...it transfers a bit..then pauses...then starts again..then pauses..[12:28:31] <Nemesis> anyone know why?[12:28:52] <madwizard> g4lt-mordant: Where did I yammer now?[12:29:10] *** Brendan__ is now known as Gekz[12:29:18] *** Gekz has joined #opensolaris[12:29:27] <Nemesis> same file...transfer...pause..transfer...pause..transfer....[12:29:43] <Nemesis> its weird..[12:29:51] <tsoome> Nemesis: sounds like crappy hw, network receive is slowing down when write caches are flushed?[12:30:05] <Nemesis> k[12:30:08] <RoyK^> Nemesis: that's how ftp works[12:30:08] <RoyK^> Nemesis: use rsync[12:30:17] <Nemesis> rsync?[12:30:31] <Nemesis> it didnt work that way when I had my linux server running[12:30:36] <Nemesis> i had freeflow on each transfer[12:30:46] <RoyK^> ftp is a prehistoric protocol not well suited to transferring lots of files[12:30:51] <Nemesis> but that was a different filesystem of course[12:30:52] <Nemesis> not zfs[12:30:57] <RoyK^> rsync -avP -e ssh someserver:/somedir /here[12:31:02] <RoyK^> for instance[12:31:10] <Nemesis> k[12:32:32] <Nemesis> whats his face told me that zfs eats more cache and ram[12:32:46] <Nemesis> the guy that helped me set it all up[12:32:51] <Nemesis> sancho[12:33:13] <g4lt-mordant> madwizard, speculation on sol10[12:33:25] <madwizard> g4lt-mordant: And where did I speculate on sol10?[12:33:56] <zedrich> dont you want to use send/recieve with zfs? :)[12:34:18] <zedrich> of course they could of offered a transport system for the streams as well... ssh seems a bit absurd[12:35:22] <RoyK^> zedrich: heh - use netcat[12:35:34] <Nemesis> well...[12:35:42] *** Gekz has left #opensolaris[12:35:50] <madwizard> g4lt-mordant: Because I don't see any *speculation* coming from me within last few things I said about Solaris 10 here[12:36:00] <Nemesis> i was going to just do this via smb, but uhh...i dont have that setup yet and had to start getting my crap over there anyway[12:36:28] <Nemesis> i have never transferred anything via zfs[12:36:38] <Nemesis> so I have no idea how to do that yet[12:36:48] <g4lt-mordant> [0426] <madwizard> I believe not, but it becomes illegal[12:37:26] <madwizard> Oookaay, right, I speculated that Solaris 10 does not come into grinding halt, when it gets 90 days old and has no contract[12:37:29] <madwizard> Sorry[12:37:47] <madwizard> Will refrain myself in future from assuring everbody that there are no DRMs built in[12:37:54] <madwizard> Going for coffee[12:37:55] <madwizard> See ya[12:40:43] <g4lt-mordant> should have had the cup before you fed the FUD engine, maybe the caffeine would have amde you realize how stupid and idea it was[12:42:05] *** hsp has quit IRC[12:42:23] *** betchou has joined #opensolaris[12:42:24] <madwizard> g4lt-mordant: Still don't see how what I said was fud, but okay, let it be your way. EOT.[12:45:16] <Nemesis> http://docs.huihoo.com/opensolaris/solaris-zfs-administration-guide/html/ch06s03.html[12:45:29] *** santoroj has joined #opensolaris[12:52:24] *** tomw has joined #opensolaris[12:55:28] <Nemesis> zfs-fuse is taking a bit to refresh[12:55:33] * Nemesis waits...[12:57:10] *** Dagobert has quit IRC[12:57:39] *** calumb is now known as calAFK[13:01:54] *** Beket has joined #opensolaris[13:05:28] *** kokotier has quit IRC[13:07:56] *** t3hrealadamd has joined #opensolaris[13:09:37] *** BluSmoke has joined #opensolaris[13:11:00] <madwizard> Nemesis: You got i working?[13:11:06] <madwizard> s/i/it/[13:11:39] *** Odin- has joined #opensolaris[13:12:58] *** hakmn has joined #opensolaris[13:13:07] *** tomw has quit IRC[13:13:22] *** cocacola has joined #opensolaris[13:13:24] *** RoyK^ has quit IRC[13:14:13] *** snuff-home2 has joined #opensolaris[13:15:14] *** eclipse_ has quit IRC[13:17:05] *** swift has quit IRC[13:17:10] *** swift_ has joined #opensolaris[13:17:19] *** snuff-home has quit IRC[13:17:45] *** swift has joined #opensolaris[13:18:27] *** swift__ has joined #opensolaris[13:18:55] <Nemesis> still plunking along here[13:19:09] <Nemesis> im working with the ssh host side of the zfs send command[13:19:29] <Nemesis> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-5461/gbchx?a=view[13:19:31] *** gm152 has joined #opensolaris[13:20:35] *** Fallen_Demon has joined #opensolaris[13:21:52] *** t3h_realadamd has joined #opensolaris[13:22:10] *** swift_ has quit IRC[13:22:27] *** BluSmoke has left #opensolaris[13:22:39] *** swift has quit IRC[13:22:50] *** swift__ is now known as swift[13:23:49] * Nemesis goes back to ftp for the moment[13:24:03] <Nemesis> it seems I need to create a snapshot on this end first[13:24:18] <Nemesis> im rather #$##@@#!('d[13:24:42] <Nemesis> zfs has a learning curve with it indeed[13:25:19] <Nemesis> zfs send tank/dana@snap1 | ssh host2 zfs recv newtank/dana[13:25:24] <CosmicDJ> yeah we all miss ufsdump ;)[13:25:44] *** t3hrealadamd has quit IRC[13:26:07] <Stric> you need a snapshot to have a "stable environment"[13:26:17] <Nemesis> I understood this as: zfs send /home/pathtomycrap@myhost | ssh my.open.sol.box recv /path/to/my/crap/that/I/want/it/at[13:26:18] <Stric> no we don't[13:26:59] <Nemesis> do i have the interpretation wrong?[13:27:00] *** swift_ has joined #opensolaris[13:27:25] *** Dagobert has joined #opensolaris[13:27:26] <CosmicDJ> what's "@myhost"[13:27:29] <CosmicDJ> ?[13:27:48] <Nemesis> like my puter name: dork@whatever#[13:28:04] <Nemesis> root@dorksputer[13:28:05] <Stric> Nemesis: .. yes[13:28:05] <Stric> seems about right. now test it to see that you get what you expect[13:28:29] <Stric> @myhost is actually @thesnapshotnameyoumade[13:28:32] <tsoome> missing zfs in front of recv[13:28:45] <Nemesis> the error I got was invalid dataset for my path[13:28:53] *** swift__ has joined #opensolaris[13:29:00] <Nemesis> /home/pathtomycrap <-- this part here[13:29:10] <Nemesis> then it went on and asked me for a password for ssh[13:29:18] <Nemesis> you know that authentication key thing?[13:29:20] <tsoome> zfs command woks with dataset names, not path names[13:29:24] <tsoome> works*[13:29:33] <Nemesis> so I gave it a password and it told me denied[13:29:42] <Nemesis> i assumed the password was my root password[13:29:50] <Nemesis> but maybe I have to setup another account or something[13:29:54] *** swift has quit IRC[13:29:54] *** swift__ is now known as swift[13:30:46] <CosmicDJ> root login via ssh is often disabled by default, and... there's no root user on opensolaris[13:30:52] <Nemesis> Permission denied (gssapi-keyex,gssapi-with-mic,publickey,keyboard-interactive).[13:31:28] <Nemesis> well whatever..the su password is what I used[13:31:32] <Nemesis> that shoulda worked[13:31:34] <Nemesis> but it didnt[13:31:55] *** swift_ has quit IRC[13:31:59] <CosmicDJ> when you ssh somehost IIRC ssh will try to login on that host with your current username[13:32:05] <Nemesis> my su password and normal password are the same[13:32:09] <Stric> you have two different things here.. ssh and zfs.. get ssh working first, then use that as transport method for zfs send[13:32:10] <Stric> (working as you want to use it)[13:32:18] <Nemesis> well that would be the issue[13:32:19] *** milek has quit IRC[13:32:40] <Nemesis> when i sftp in, it asks me for a username and pass[13:32:40] <Stric> so leave zfs out first, and get familiar on how ssh works[13:32:47] <Nemesis> I give it the info..and it makes it happy[13:32:58] <Nemesis> is there a way I can tell this the username I want to login with?[13:33:04] <CosmicDJ> yes[13:33:07] <Nemesis> ok..[13:33:08] <CosmicDJ> ofc[13:34:15] <Nemesis> zfs send /home/pathtomycrap@myhost | ssh my.open.sol.box recv /path/to/my/crap/that/I/want/it/at <--- So like on the ssh part of this can I say ssh username:pass my.open.sol.box recv /path/to/my/crap/that/I/want/it/at[13:34:49] <tsoome> man ssh[13:35:32] *** edude03 has joined #opensolaris[13:35:36] <Nemesis> there it is[13:35:42] *** held has joined #opensolaris[13:35:43] <Nemesis> ssh -l dorksname[13:36:09] *** ziyourenxiang has joined #opensolaris[13:36:36] *** milek has joined #opensolaris[13:36:48] <CosmicDJ> ssh user@host works, too[13:36:55] *** Stric has quit IRC[13:37:05] *** hnhn has joined #opensolaris[13:37:29] *** ewdafa has joined #opensolaris[13:38:18] <Nemesis> ok when I log in..i get this error[13:38:29] <Nemesis> bash: zfs: command not found[13:38:31] *** Stric has joined #opensolaris[13:38:54] <madwizard> Nemesis: Wrong $PATH?[13:38:56] <tsoome> use full path[13:39:06] <Nemesis> if I do it at user@host it wont allow me to login[13:39:06] <tsoome> and if its not root, you need pfexec[13:39:09] <Nemesis> it dont recognize me[13:39:20] <Nemesis> if I do just the username it lets me in[13:39:22] <tsoome> well. man ssh. really.[13:40:02] <Nemesis> were clear on the ssh part of it I thought[13:41:09] <Nemesis> cannot open '/path/to/my/crap': invalid dataset name[13:41:20] *** calAFK is now known as calumb[13:41:23] <Nemesis> that is what I was wondering[13:41:34] <Nemesis> did i need to take a snapshot first?[13:41:42] <tsoome> zfs command does wotk with dataset, not with path names[13:41:50] <tsoome> grrr work*[13:42:10] <tsoome> dataset name cant start with /[13:42:25] <Nemesis> well on my linux drive..thats the path[13:42:34] <Nemesis> so you are telling me that zfs wants this a different way[13:42:36] <Stric> Nemesis: first column of 'zfs list' output. I've told you once before.[13:42:38] <Nemesis> then what my path is on linux[13:42:51] <Stric> linux isn't involved at all in zfs send or zfs receive.[13:43:02] <Nemesis> linux is involved[13:43:08] <Nemesis> my crap is on a linux box[13:43:14] <Nemesis> im trying to get it over to the opensol box[13:43:14] <tsoome> its like volume name in volume manager versus volume mount point[13:43:24] <Nemesis> so im going from point linux A to opensol B[13:43:34] <Nemesis> i had to install zfs-fuse[13:43:38] <Nemesis> on linux[13:43:46] <Nemesis> along with libraries and all of this[13:44:23] <tsoome> eeeee[13:44:27] <Nemesis> did i miss something?[13:44:31] <Stric> Then see documentation on your zfs-fuse how to use zfs send or receive[13:44:42] <eklof> Nemesis: backup the thing first, I couldn't import my zfs-fuse pool to osol.[13:44:54] <Stric> On the opensolaris side, you shouldn't start with a / at least.[13:45:08] <Nemesis> see he is warm..i gotta take a snapshot of this or something..[13:45:08] *** snuff-home2 is now known as snuff-home[13:45:15] <Nemesis> [07:48] <eklof> Nemesis: backup the thing first, I couldn't import my zfs-fuse pool to osol.[13:45:28] <Beket> man... how do you trust zfs-fuse? seriously.. zfs is barely reliable under opensolaris which is the canonical implementation. Don't you care for your data ? :P[13:45:56] <Stric> eklof: trying to zfs send/recv from one to the other, so no import is involved[13:45:56] <Stric> Nemesis: You still seem clue resistant. People tell you things over and over and you don't listen. Welcome to my /ignore[13:45:56] <Nemesis> exactly Beket[13:45:59] <Stric> 13:49 Ignoring ALL from Nemesis[13:46:04] <Nemesis> i was doing this via ftp at the start[13:46:12] <Nemesis> but I had a pause inbetween my transfers[13:46:21] <Nemesis> well in the same transfer rather[13:46:36] <Nemesis> file transfers..then pauses..transfers...pauses[13:46:46] <Nemesis> so we decided to transfer via either rsync or zfs[13:46:58] <Nemesis> zfs is looking to be a big pain[13:47:02] <eklof> Beket: it was not very important data :)[13:47:04] <tsoome> so you did install zfs-fuse, copied data on zfs fuse and doing zfs send now?![13:47:12] <Nemesis> so maybe I should stay with ftp or go with rsync[13:47:16] <Beket> eklof, mm ok then :)[13:47:21] <Nemesis> yes i tsoome[13:47:26] <Nemesis> did[13:47:33] * tsoome bangs his head against the wall[13:47:40] <Nemesis> i installed it along with the libraries on my linux box[13:47:57] <tsoome> simple scp -r would be probably just enough.[13:48:13] <Tempt> Honestly, this is #opensolaris. zfs-fuse questions should probably go to the relevant mailing lists.[13:48:40] <Nemesis> ok...for the record..I have absolutely no ambition to learn zfs[13:48:45] <Nemesis> zfs-fuse i mean[13:48:48] <Nemesis> not zfs[13:48:52] <tsoome> doesnt really matter if its fuse or not fuse; zfs command operated with dataset name.[13:49:04] <Nemesis> well whatever it is..its not working[13:49:09] <eklof> the thing have identical commands so i don't get it?[13:49:10] <Tempt> (before tsoome pops an aneurysm)[13:49:13] <Nemesis> and its being a big pain..more effort than it should take[13:49:15] *** xulfer has left #opensolaris[13:49:23] <tsoome> just use scp ffs[13:49:44] <tsoome> copy data and get over with it[13:50:03] <Nemesis> ok[13:50:20] *** jfchevrette has joined #opensolaris[13:51:04] <Nemesis> mercy sakes[13:51:10] <Nemesis> sorry bout the headache[13:51:29] <tsoome> no need to overcomplicate things[13:53:06] *** lateau_ has quit IRC[13:53:17] *** gm152 has quit IRC[13:53:51] <Nemesis> [07:49] <Stric> Nemesis: You still seem clue resistant. People tell you things over and over and you don't listen. Welcome to my /ignore <---what chapped this guys ass? he tells me this is not a linux related issue when all my junk is on a linux box..[13:53:56] <Nemesis> i dont understand[13:54:57] <Nemesis> i guess he thinks I intentionally go out of my way to piss him off...and I dont try to do that...[13:55:09] <Nemesis> i dont know what to this guy[13:55:12] <Nemesis> tell[13:56:07] <Tempt> Alright, that's enough.[13:57:40] <madwizard> I still cannot decide if Beket was simply trolling[13:57:41] <madwizard> :)[13:57:53] *** DerSaidin has quit IRC[13:57:54] *** jfchevrette has quit IRC[13:57:54] *** jfchevrette has joined #opensolaris[14:00:19] *** edude03 has quit IRC[14:01:19] *** jfchevrette has quit IRC[14:03:00] *** Gugge_ is now known as Gugge[14:04:11] *** LukeL_ has joined #opensolaris[14:04:45] <madwizard> So I will refrain myself from obvious thing, like pointing out that ZFS is friggin' working fs[14:04:48] *** RoyK has joined #opensolaris[14:04:49] <madwizard> :)[14:07:02] *** DerSaidin has joined #opensolaris[14:07:02] *** DerSaidin has joined #opensolaris[14:09:48] *** twilling has joined #opensolaris[14:14:21] <tsoome> quite;)[14:15:12] *** _madmax_ has quit IRC[14:16:07] <madwizard> http://chototsumoushinp.dip.jp/projectkyoto/home.html[14:16:10] *** sipior has joined #opensolaris[14:16:15] <madwizard> About /security for /release[14:16:40] *** wewek has joined #opensolaris[14:19:10] *** edogawaconan has quit IRC[14:19:42] *** LukeL_ has quit IRC[14:22:15] <madwizard> Coffee[14:24:58] *** dalibor has quit IRC[14:25:11] *** syamajala has joined #opensolaris[14:25:29] *** syamajala has quit IRC[14:25:57] *** Andrew3 has quit IRC[14:26:36] *** kwinz3 has quit IRC[14:26:42] *** Andrew3 has joined #opensolaris[14:27:07] *** sergiusens has quit IRC[14:27:24] *** luc^ has quit IRC[14:27:53] *** cron0 has joined #opensolaris[14:28:23] *** cron0 has quit IRC[14:28:43] <Kapsel> I did some testing with iSCSI earlier, from a Mac Pro with globalSAN iSCSI initiator. worked pretty fine, but I saw the log device was pushing hell of a lot of write to it. is this expected? I mean, will I never be able to achieve more throughput than my log device is capable of writing?[14:29:02] <Kapsel> i have a X25-E SSD in it, and it works perfectly fine. but it only does 150MB/s write or so.[14:29:18] <Kapsel> is this because of the way iSCSI works with sync writes?[14:31:34] *** dalibor has joined #opensolaris[14:32:34] <forquare> If anyone has any experience with zones, especially using sysidcfg files, could you take a look at my post over on the discussions? http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=126898 Many thanks :)[14:36:00] *** ozux has quit IRC[14:38:33] *** robo has joined #opensolaris[14:39:40] *** bourbon has joined #opensolaris[14:43:10] *** kwinz3 has joined #opensolaris[14:46:53] *** twilling has quit IRC[14:47:37] <Andys^> Kapsel: correct[14:47:52] <Kapsel> Andys^: how do I get better iSCSI performance?[14:47:56] <Kapsel> disabling log and ZIL?[14:48:47] *** RoyK^ has joined #opensolaris[14:49:44] *** twilling has joined #opensolaris[14:49:53] <Andys^> kapsel: add an extra log device ;)[14:50:03] <Tempt> or a faster log device.[14:50:24] <|woody|> using comstar or old software iscsi?[14:50:34] *** ThothCrimson has joined #opensolaris[14:50:46] <tsoome> in general, for your data you dont wanna disable zil (other than testing purposes)[14:50:52] <Kapsel> i just used the zfs setiscsishare=on or something like that.[14:51:00] <Kapsel> tsoome: yeah, I know. that's why I added a log device, heh.[14:51:00] <Andys^> all writes to zvols are syncronous[14:51:06] *** doug_ndndn has quit IRC[14:51:11] <|woody|> well switch to comstar :)[14:51:29] <Kapsel> oh.[14:51:36] *** merzo has quit IRC[14:51:42] *** |AbsyntH| has joined #opensolaris[14:51:57] <RoyK^> is comstar going into main line?[14:52:05] <tsoome> Kapsel: have you read brendan gregg's blog about comstar?[14:52:09] <Kapsel> tsoome: nope.[14:52:16] <Andys^> it isn't really anything to do with which iscsi target software..[14:52:20] <tsoome> blogs.sun.com/brendan[14:52:48] <tsoome> check it out, its last entry comparing comstar with old one[14:53:50] <Kapsel> cool. Thanks a lot.[14:54:14] <Andys^> its basically because zfs doesn't have any way to track the ordering of non-syncronous writes..[14:54:22] <Andys^> (i think)[14:54:38] <Andys^> anyway, its pretty safe this way[14:54:45] <Andys^> so its worth getting a few X25-E's :)[14:54:50] <Andys^> (they'll last longer, too)[14:55:58] *** Fallen_Demon has quit IRC[14:56:56] *** timsf has quit IRC[14:57:57] <Kapsel> Andys^: yeah. makes sense. currently I only have one X25-E (no mirroring).[14:58:11] <Kapsel> but I'd gain performance by adding a second log device? is that even possible?[14:58:17] <Andys^> i believe so...[14:58:21] <Andys^> i think it can stripe across them[14:58:33] <Andys^> although when i added one as a stripe, it seeems to be using it as a mirror which i dont understand[14:58:39] <Andys^> but i'm stuck on a particular version, maybe its been fixed..[14:58:40] <Kapsel> also, I'm not exactly sure if thats the actual bottleneck. since I only saturate ~80MB/s of the 150MB/s write that the X25-E is capable of.[14:58:49] <Andys^> right[14:58:52] <Andys^> well thats probably to do with other stuff[14:59:05] <Andys^> like TCP/IP stack at both ends - have you enabled large TCP window?[15:00:15] <Kapsel> if I could get 150MB/s, i'd be happy. I did some network test and got ~910Mbit on my Gbit[15:00:22] <Kapsel> I guess that's fine.[15:00:32] <Andys^> os you've maxed out 1G[15:00:40] <Andys^> you should be able to get at least 100MB/s[15:00:44] <Andys^> on a 1G link[15:01:01] *** calum has joined #opensolaris[15:01:01] <Kapsel> yeah. and I only get ~80.[15:01:14] <Kapsel> but I only tested from one machine and using one initiator[15:01:21] <Andys^> right[15:01:29] <Andys^> is that on TCP defaults?[15:01:42] <Andys^> the default TCP window for solaris is only 48kb, which is very low, should be at least 128kb, i use 256kb[15:01:45] <Kapsel> Anyone have experience with other initiators for OS X? The globalSAN seems pretty crappy. it hangs and feels sluggish.[15:01:55] <Kapsel> yeah, TCP defaults.[15:01:56] <Andys^> you can change it with ndd set[15:02:28] <Stric> Andys^: depends on how high latency you have on the link as well.. for LAN, it's not a big issue[15:02:33] <tsoome> only used globalsan, was doing ok for me, tho[15:03:13] <Andys^> Stric: well, i dont really get full rate on a single TCP connection unless i increase it[15:03:21] <Kapsel> tsoome: I tried it on two different machines (a Mac Pro and a MacBook Pro), both worked really sluggish. I'll try with comstar instead.[15:03:29] <Stric> Andys^: at what latency? ping for instance..[15:04:11] *** calumb has quit IRC[15:04:11] <tsoome> i have used it against HDS SMS100 iscsi array for an year or so, used iscsi lun as timemachine targed disk.[15:04:29] <tsoome> so, it was not too high usage pattern[15:04:50] <Andys^> Stric: over a LAN.[15:04:55] <RoyK^> Andys^: jumboframes will probably help[15:05:05] <Stric> Andys^: I get about 0.5ms, which with 48kB should be enough to drive about 96MByte/s[15:05:18] <Andys^> ironically, jumbo frames made no difference - it merely lowered CPU time slightly[15:05:22] <Stric> Andys^: yeah, over LAN.. what latency?[15:05:35] <Andys^> (with intel NICs, the processing of TCP is offloaded to the NIC anyway)[15:05:36] *** doug_ndndn has joined #opensolaris[15:06:00] <Andys^> Stric: well, 1G LAN is capable of more than 96[15:06:15] <Andys^> & thats assuming no delay in processing at either end[15:06:18] *** tosh has joined #opensolaris[15:06:32] <Andys^> 48kB isn't even big enough to hold a whole block from a single transfer[15:07:13] <Stric> I haven't said that 48kB is much, but for a LAN it should be enough to drive a gigE more or less full[15:07:15] <RoyK^> how do I increase windows size?[15:07:30] <Stric> RoyK^: http://www.acc.umu.se/~maswan/linux-netperf.txt[15:07:56] <RoyK^> I thought we were talking about osol here :)[15:07:58] *** mroconnor has joined #opensolaris[15:08:02] <Stric> RoyK^: scroll down[15:08:21] <Stric> it has generic info and linux, aix, solaris commands[15:08:44] <d1b> aix...[15:08:47] <RoyK^> thanks[15:09:51] <Macer> :)[15:09:55] <RoyK^> jAIX[15:09:55] <Macer> aix![15:09:59] <Macer> woo![15:10:42] * RoyK^ hasn't touched AIX in something like 10years[15:12:46] <Macer> when was the last release?[15:12:53] <Macer> 2005 or so?[15:13:08] <Macer> :) i didnt know they still sold it[15:13:09] <Stric> end of 2007[15:13:26] <evik> AIX V6 6.1, November 9, 2007[15:13:33] <Stric> which is more recent than Solaris 10[15:13:56] <tsoome> latest s10 release was in 2009 :P[15:14:13] <Stric> and AIX 6.1 has gotten updates as well.[15:14:22] <Stric> but AIX 6.1 was released in 2007 and Solaris 10 in 2005.[15:14:50] <tsoome> are aix updates same as s10 update releases?:P[15:14:55] <Stric> similar[15:15:32] <RoyK^> any idea if s11 is planned soon?[15:15:44] <tsoome> define "soon"?[15:16:12] <tsoome> looking on opensolaris, i would say its nowhere near soon.[15:16:17] *** Spencer_tt has joined #opensolaris[15:16:26] <RoyK^> heh[15:16:49] <tsoome> tsoome@kass:~$ uname -r[15:16:49] <tsoome> 5.11[15:16:50] <madwizard> In relation to the process of mountain forming - any while now. :)[15:16:50] <tsoome>[15:16:51] <forquare> Wasn't OPenSolaris going to be Sol 11?[15:16:51] <tsoome> :P[15:17:17] <forquare> Looking at the output of uname: SunOS beleg-ia 5.11 snv_111b i86pc i386 i86pc[15:17:23] <RoyK^> some time in 2015? :D[15:17:47] <Macer> haha[15:17:47] <tsoome> at some point of foreseeable future:D[15:17:47] <madwizard> Looking at the uname: 5.11, I'd say more like 2511[15:17:57] <Macer> was reading the wikipedia abput aix[15:17:59] <Stric> forquare: or rather, Solaris Next having roughly the same codebase as what OpenSolaris will have at some point[15:18:07] <Macer> and totally forgot about the sco lawsuit machine[15:18:23] <Stric> Macer: then you haven't followed any tech news in the last years[15:18:28] <Macer> hahaha.. sco.. i just had a 90s flashback[15:18:29] <forquare> Stric: yes,[15:18:46] <Macer> Stric: ?[15:19:09] <taemun> is there a non-persistent osol/osol based server style (no-gui) distro? just boots with DHCP and binds a ssh daemon to default ip?[15:19:15] <Macer> still suing? :)[15:19:32] <Stric> Macer: there has been news updates every now and then, and yesterday the court ruled in favour of novell[15:19:45] <amgarching> hi, how do you list hardware? Something like hwinfo or lspci?[15:19:56] <Andys^> prtconf[15:20:09] <Stric> or scanpci which is .. somewhere..[15:20:15] <Macer> whoa. just yesterday?[15:20:26] <Stric> Macer: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/30/jury_rules_novell_own_unix/[15:20:27] <Macer> so what happens to ibm?[15:20:32] <amgarching> ok, thanks reading man pages[15:20:38] <Stric> "but its case against IBM is still pending"[15:20:56] <Macer> owns unix.. so what happens to open src unix based OSes?[15:21:11] <turtle> nothing?[15:21:18] <tsoome> taemun: svcadm disable gdm[15:21:19] <Macer> do they go line by line andfind more people to sue?[15:21:37] <taemun> ( tsoome ): I want something that can *boot* of a cd/usb stick as is[15:21:38] <Stric> Macer: Yes.[15:21:40] <taemun> without a gui, etc[15:21:41] <Macer> that is our code from 1970![15:21:41] <Stric> SCO did[15:22:01] <Stric> Macer: for more info, read up on the internets.. there should be info every here and there[15:22:23] <Macer> ibm will settle[15:22:32] <Macer> they should have just bought novell haha[15:23:27] <Macer> wonder if it is illegal to buy out a company that is suing you[15:23:41] <d1b> Macer: you mean sco[15:23:43] <Meths> Novell isn't suing IBM[15:23:58] <Macer> didnt novell buy sco?[15:24:01] <d1b> + why would it be illegal?[15:24:22] <Meths> No, Novell just won it's (second) court case against SCO[15:24:32] <Macer> d1b: oooh[15:24:42] <d1b> and novell is under attack :P[15:24:46] <Meths> Now SCO goes to finish the delayed court case against IBM.[15:24:47] <causality> novell bought suse[15:24:51] <d1b> it's a trap![15:24:55] <Macer> d1b: for the same reason you cant bribe witnesses ?[15:25:05] <d1b> Macer: totally different[15:25:16] <Macer> doesnt seem different[15:25:41] <d1b> well bribing witneses costs less for a start :P[15:25:48] <Macer> eliminitaing a lawsuit by buying the company suing .. firing the people who sued you.. then dismantling it[15:25:51] <Macer> :)[15:26:23] <Macer> costs less haha.. and people say there arent two legal systems ;)[15:26:45] <Meths> Problem with that is you then set a precedent for patent trolling companies being good for shareholders.[15:27:55] <d1b> Meths: exactly[15:28:16] <d1b> sco isn't worth anything anymore it would be a total waste of money[15:28:25] <d1b> the company is broke last i looked[15:29:25] <Meths> The best thing would be for a judge in the IBM case to come to his senses and rule that SCO is actually backrupt, can't pay its lawyers and should just be left to die.[15:29:44] <RoyK^> I thought SCO was bankrupt ages ago[15:29:51] <Meths> Unfortunately such common sense in patent and law circles is merely a fantasy[15:30:55] <Meths> RoyK^: Yes, yes it was, some fool lent them money to keep on their lawyers and the farce continues.[15:30:56] <d1b> Meths: mm[15:31:09] <d1b> i think that fool is called microsoft![15:31:20] <d1b> conspiracy theory are fun[15:31:50] *** Klinki has joined #opensolaris[15:31:58] <Meths> Microsoft made money from Novell as the only company to sign up to their patent pact. They wouldn't gain by supporting SCO I don't think.[15:32:23] <d1b> didn't the legal action start prior ?[15:32:53] <d1b> yeah im pretty sure it did[15:33:28] <RoyK^> what's Novell doing these days, really?[15:33:33] *** sergiusens has joined #opensolaris[15:33:48] * RoyK^ is an old Master CNE and somehow misses NetWare :)[15:34:01] <d1b> selling support for their lunix and wishes that their old software would die?[15:34:17] <RoyK^> hehe[15:34:47] <d1b> speaking of which, solaris is now a lunix right :P[15:34:59] <RoyK^> not really[15:35:08] <d1b> oracle sells lunix support :P[15:35:19] *** perlmongo has quit IRC[15:35:31] <Stric> No, Solaris is an embedded database.. because they own BerkeleyDB as well..?[15:35:45] <d1b> Stric: i was going to say nfs but ok[15:35:52] <d1b> re rpc[15:36:50] *** ThothCrimson has quit IRC[15:37:33] <tsoome> oh creat, another gccism:([15:37:34] *** ThothCrimson has joined #opensolaris[15:38:23] <effremn> i have been hearing that some of the zfs guys are going to Apple[15:38:27] <effremn> is that true?[15:38:47] <effremn> i also saw this today - hmm - http://www.katonda.com/news/solaries-no-more-free-open-solaris-may-die/936/2010[15:39:22] <tsoome> read less IBM fud.[15:39:50] *** richb has quit IRC[15:39:54] *** zenjuzu has joined #opensolaris[15:40:24] <d1b> tsoome: m?[15:41:46] <forquare> effremn: I know a few ZFS people went to Apple a while ago, but when all the Orcale stuff came up, Apple seemed to abandon it's ZFS efforts[15:41:58] *** dalibor has quit IRC[15:42:13] *** dalibor has joined #opensolaris[15:42:28] *** RoyK^ has quit IRC[15:42:54] *** RoyK^ has joined #opensolaris[15:43:24] <RoyK^> d1b: even if oracle sells linux support, it doesn't really mean solaris will have a linux kernel next month :[15:44:17] <madwizard> forquare: Apple abandoned ZFS a while before Oracle came into picture[15:44:20] <effremn> i think apple is planning something zfs related but i can't figure out what or why[15:45:05] <RoyK^> effremn: wierd it's not in 10.6, then[15:45:06] <effremn> to publicly "abandon" and then get every engineer to write it again seems steve jobs clever to me[15:45:22] <forquare> Apple could have used ZFS, especially for it's Mac Pros and XServes, and Time Machine...But since they've dropped it, I think they will probably look at modifying HFS again[15:45:28] *** richb has joined #opensolaris[15:45:51] <RoyK^> I just don't get it...[15:45:55] * RoyK^ wants zfs on his mac[15:46:00] <Beket> effremn, why would it be clever ?[15:46:01] <effremn> my prediction is that apple and some zfs engineers will do a clean page re-write of zfs - but why[15:46:02] <d1b> RoyK^: they had zfs and they dropped it[15:46:05] *** Erwann has quit IRC[15:46:06] <d1b> (apple)[15:46:07] <madwizard> RoyK^: Install OSOL. :)[15:46:10] *** Erwann has joined #opensolaris[15:46:11] <RoyK^> d1b: I know[15:46:15] <RoyK^> madwizard: heh - no[15:46:26] <RoyK^> madwizard: OS X rocks[15:46:36] <forquare> IIRC Apple dropped it due to licensing issues. The *rumour* was that Apple wanted Sun to relicense ZFS for some reason[15:46:45] *** RoyK is now known as Guest19685[15:46:48] <madwizard> Depends on personal preferences. It couldn't get me to love it for two years I used it.[15:46:51] <forquare> RoyK^: I agree[15:46:53] <madwizard> I doubt it could now[15:46:56] <madwizard> Even with ZFS[15:47:13] <madwizard> I wonder where g4lt-mordant is now. :)[15:47:14] <d1b> madwizard: it isn't a desktop os[15:47:23] <madwizard> OS X?[15:47:34] <d1b> lunix[15:47:38] <d1b> is fine.[15:47:53] <madwizard> d1b: Which one of 300 distros? :)[15:47:58] <d1b> but solaris for a desktop mmm.[15:48:09] <d1b> madwizard: but i only use one :P[15:48:14] <madwizard> d1b: I have osol on desktop. I'm pretty fucking fine with it.[15:48:19] <DerSaidin> me too[15:48:24] <Meths> me three[15:48:28] <d1b> but no compiz![15:48:34] <DerSaidin> yeah there is[15:48:37] <d1b> where?[15:48:37] <Meths> compiz working fine for me[15:48:38] <sergiusens> I have it too, but no entirely fine...[15:48:43] * DerSaidin spins cube and stuff[15:48:52] <madwizard> d1b: "Linux" is sooooo exact[15:49:02] <madwizard> d1b: Why the hell would I need compiz?[15:49:07] <d1b> madwizard: because![15:49:12] <madwizard> Ah[15:49:23] <madwizard> Something taken out of PMS[15:49:26] <g4lt-mordant> madwizard, if you ruin the digestion of my donuts.....[15:49:26] <Dagobert> Desktop doesn't matter. A vt100 and X11 runs on almost any Desktop.[15:49:45] <DerSaidin> system -> preferences -> appearance, visual effects[15:49:46] <g4lt-mordant> donuts > flamewars[15:49:57] <d1b> DerSaidin: what about on nvidia / ati graphics cards?[15:49:57] <madwizard> g4lt-mordant: You are ircing from the hermitage?[15:50:01] *** asdtemp has joined #opensolaris[15:50:17] <asdtemp> hi[15:50:41] *** kwinz3 has quit IRC[15:50:42] <madwizard> d1b: LFS is Linux distro too[15:50:43] <DerSaidin> I'm on a nvidia 8400GS (like $30)[15:50:45] <madwizard> Anyway[15:51:00] <d1b> madwizard: yes and...[15:51:13] <asdtemp> what does "If you rush it, you get what you deserve." from the topic mean?[15:51:24] <d1b> boom![15:51:47] *** darrenb has joined #opensolaris[15:51:54] <madwizard> boom?[15:52:26] <d1b> using software not marked stable often results in boom[15:52:48] <madwizard> d1b: And nothing. Just as fruitful as the last few tens of lines here.[15:52:55] <madwizard> Heeeheeee[15:53:05] * madwizard eyes gentoo and their server usage.[15:53:18] *** kevku has joined #opensolaris[15:53:43] <d1b> madwizard: oh no! don't speak to loud freenode uses it![15:54:01] <madwizard> oh noes[15:54:33] <DerSaidin> http://www.dersaidin.net/xreal/osol_xreal3.png < that engine is (more or less) opengl3.1, check out the GLSL in the center there[15:54:41] <d1b> people use gentoo on servers. it really is frightening[15:55:09] <d1b> what game is that?[15:55:18] <DerSaidin> WIP[15:55:19] *** terrygardner has joined #opensolaris[15:55:32] <d1b> only 10 frames.../s[15:55:45] <DerSaidin> as I mentioned, $30 worth of graphics card[15:55:57] <d1b> right.[15:56:33] <d1b> doesn't look to bad but that's just normal gnome[15:56:46] *** timsf has joined #opensolaris[15:56:48] <d1b> valgrind doesn't run does it ?[15:58:00] <d1b> dtrace is nice but you also wanta memory checker..[15:58:37] <johannes> dbx rtc, libumem, ... Soalris has memory checkers, too[15:58:44] <johannes> Solaris even[15:59:54] <asdtemp> Can OSol be installed to a logical partition (to be booted)?[15:59:55] <alanc> even the granddaddy of all memory checkers, Purify - but you have to pay for it[16:00:04] <asdtemp> To an extended partition, I mean[16:00:33] *** hajma has quit IRC[16:00:36] <d1b> oooo[16:00:47] <asyd> ahah, french's sun salesguy stroke[16:00:58] *** comay has joined #opensolaris[16:01:25] <asyd> strike, even[16:01:59] <RoyK^> asdtemp: afak osol uses grub, so it shouldn't be a problem[16:02:12] <asdtemp> thank you RoyK^[16:02:16] <g4lt-mordant> they're broke,sales is useless as teats on a boar hog, and they're on strike. this should turn out well[16:02:32] <alanc> d1b: yes, there are stupid columnists who don't understand Solaris 10 != OpenSolaris[16:02:48] *** taemun has quit IRC[16:02:51] <d1b> alanc: i noticed[16:02:56] <d1b> rather amusing.[16:03:08] *** taemun has joined #opensolaris[16:04:29] *** LaidBack_01 has quit IRC[16:05:23] <d1b> so like in opensolaris is the whole thing now totally open ? - ive seen articles that say it isn't completely open and has some blobs around[16:06:15] *** kwinz3 has joined #opensolaris[16:06:34] <tsoome> why ask oracle when you can read articles:P[16:06:38] <RoyK^> it's open as in open source, but the community doesn't control its development[16:07:23] <alanc> there are some closed binary blobs still[16:07:27] <Meths> Aren't there binary drivers around?[16:07:30] *** KungFuJesus has joined #opensolaris[16:07:43] <tsoome> esp like the guy who has been journalist for 30 years and still cant distinguish solaris10 from opensolaris.[16:07:52] <alanc> there's a long running community project to replace some, but not many community members have been interested in it[16:08:15] <d1b> alanc: right[16:08:20] <RoyK^> alanc: what blobs are these? drivers?[16:08:34] <alanc> http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Main/no_source[16:09:10] *** mecatsun has quit IRC[16:09:56] <d1b> is there a network driver that is open...[16:10:08] <alanc> the biggest amount of progress there has been the ksh93 project, which Roland & Olga have successfully integrated from the community to replace things like ksh88 and sed that the source to the old versions couldn't be released for[16:10:19] <alanc> d1b: I think most of the network drivers are open[16:10:39] *** kmays has joined #opensolaris[16:10:42] <tsoome> d1b: go src.opensolaris.org[16:10:53] <alanc> and gdamore recently got a couple more opened that were previously closed[16:10:55] <d1b> alanc: a fair amount of those listed are really common.[16:11:36] <alanc> d1b: not a network guy, so I just know what's on my computers[16:11:50] <asdtemp> Is there something like ubuntu gdm-guest-session for opensolaris?[16:12:04] <alanc> and I thought sstallion contributed a port of one of the elxl BSD drivers to open it[16:12:17] <tsoome> fair amount of listed 7 ethernet drivers?[16:12:40] <alanc> asdtemp: if it's part of gdm, then it's probably the same thing in build 130 and later, which use the new community gdm[16:12:46] *** mecatsun has joined #opensolaris[16:13:06] <asdtemp> alanc, imho it isn't, a little script that uses apparmor[16:13:29] <alanc> oh, then I have nfc, since I don't know what apparmor is[16:13:50] <asdtemp> aha[16:16:10] *** dalibor has quit IRC[16:17:28] <EisNerd> moin[16:17:49] <RoyK^> I read Live Upgrade isn't being opened - what is this really?[16:18:14] <tsoome> s10 version of beadm[16:18:16] <EisNerd> could someone tell me what the problem maybe when after disbaling nwam and enabling on fresh b134 the homedir automount fails to work?[16:18:25] *** ball has joined #opensolaris[16:18:43] <tsoome> use getent to test your nss setup[16:18:59] <ball> Does anyone happen to know what OpenSolaris' size limits are for head(1) and tail(1)?[16:19:01] <tsoome> that was for you EisNerd :)[16:19:07] <EisNerd> tsoome: local user[16:19:12] <EisNerd> just the fresh install[16:19:20] <EisNerd> the default user[16:19:30] <tsoome> check out your /etc/auto_* files[16:20:05] <|woody|> check if autofs failed[16:20:09] <EisNerd> works[16:20:19] <EisNerd> nothing failed[16:20:59] <EisNerd> grep -v '#' /etc/auto_home[16:20:59] <EisNerd> +auto_home[16:21:04] <EisNerd> looks ok[16:21:34] <tsoome> you dont have any other entries there?[16:21:48] <EisNerd> yes[16:21:59] *** omry|work has joined #opensolaris[16:22:00] <EisNerd> uh moment[16:22:05] <tsoome> so, what exactly is not working then?[16:22:09] <RoyK^> pstack saved my day yesterday - I wonder if linux has something like it ...[16:22:18] <EisNerd> tsoome: I got it thx[16:22:21] <tsoome> ;)[16:23:10] <EisNerd> wtf why are the homedirs mounted via network[16:23:19] <tsoome> ?[16:23:22] <EisNerd> no wonder that the snapshots are broken[16:23:29] <EisNerd> or the timeslider[16:24:14] *** clint- has joined #opensolaris[16:24:42] <clint-> hey everyone, I got my nice opensolaris CD in the mail yesterday, First Class from Sun Microsystems :)[16:24:55] <clint-> its really cool cd too .. :)[16:25:06] <asdtemp> not Oracle, clint- ?[16:25:10] *** nomad_fr has joined #opensolaris[16:25:12] <clint-> heck, it wasn't even that long as I thought it would be. I was expecting.. maybe a few weeks,[16:25:14] <nomad_fr> hi all[16:25:14] <clint-> nope[16:25:17] <EisNerd> tsoome: looking on another machine shows iordanov localhost:/export/home/&[16:25:19] <EisNerd> +auto_home[16:25:31] <EisNerd> that looks really like network[16:25:40] *** calum is now known as calSHOP[16:25:48] <clint-> 2159 Bering Drive , San Jose CA 95131 USA[16:25:56] <asdtemp> :S[16:26:00] <clint-> hee[16:26:11] <clint-> and right on it.. Sun Microsystems[16:26:22] <clint-> on the back, it has the opensolaris[16:26:32] <tsoome> EisNerd: grep automount /etc/nsswitch.conf[16:26:32] <asdtemp> when was it requested? :)[16:26:34] <clint-> the cd is really sweet too[16:26:39] <clint-> I requested it the other day[16:26:47] <clint-> they shipped it first class on the 25[16:26:51] <EisNerd> automount: files[16:26:52] <clint-> 25th[16:26:57] <asdtemp> then I got no idea :)[16:27:03] <clint-> its sweet though[16:27:08] <EisNerd> I think dns was missing[16:27:10] <tsoome> no network involved.[16:27:13] *** perlmongo has joined #opensolaris[16:27:14] <asdtemp> happy birthday, clint- :)[16:27:15] <Dagobert> EisNerd: Don't do that. Use * -fstype=lofs :/export/home/& instead[16:27:24] <EisNerd> on ipnodes and hosts[16:27:37] <|woody|> Dagobert thats default if opensolaris install :)[16:27:40] <|woody|> with[16:27:46] <EisNerd> Dagobert: that is the default when installing b134 straight away[16:27:52] <|woody|> which is more or less a bug :)[16:28:12] <|woody|> it's in the release notes too I think[16:28:14] <Dagobert> If the defaults were sane why should customers pay us? ;-)[16:28:18] <clint-> thanks D[16:28:19] <clint-> :D[16:28:30] <clint-> I already had burned 2 Verbatims with opensolaris[16:28:55] <clint-> the CD even has.. Sun Microsystems on it no .. Oracle[16:29:39] <clint-> I can't wait to really explore the Sun OS system.. :)[16:29:49] <clint-> been busy with mandrake too long.. 6 years[16:30:03] *** longcat has joined #opensolaris[16:30:05] <causality> i think my cd turned up a while ago[16:30:09] <clint-> lol[16:30:11] <clint-> mine came fast[16:30:16] <tsoome> localhost:/ and fstype=lofs will give you exactly the same result. except in first case you need to have localhost resolving /which should not be issue anyhow/[16:30:20] <causality> clint- what country?[16:30:20] <longcat> anyone notice seemingly random panics that dont leave a dump on svn 130?[16:30:23] <clint-> USA, IL[16:30:26] <clint-> Peoria[16:30:31] <causality> clint- i'm in europe[16:30:37] <clint-> explains.. :)[16:30:45] <clint-> how is Europe though.. I always wanted to see Europe[16:30:48] <|woody|> tsoome it's a problem as nwam takes down localhost I think[16:30:55] <causality> clint- different to north america :)[16:30:58] <longcat> looks like it's the last day before release date[16:31:03] <EisNerd> Dagobert: fixes this also the timeslider problem?[16:31:10] <tsoome> huh[16:31:30] <clint-> yeah[16:31:36] <Meths> Anyone familiar with jucr know if every package actually has compulsary undocumented BuildRequires?[16:31:37] <Dagobert> EisNerd: Don't know. But it makes the mount a lofs-type. Kind of fast...[16:32:00] <clint-> once we get.. btfrs for linux, stable things will be different. however I can't wait to really get involved with this.. a great firewall is important to me.. I need something a lot stronger[16:32:10] <tsoome> Dagobert: mounts from same server is always lofs mount:P[16:32:22] <clint-> I however am either .. Setting up a smoothwall box, , buying this Sonciwall, or maybe just getting this.. Watchguard[16:32:27] <EisNerd> Dagobert: maybe reduce ti bind mount?[16:32:36] <EisNerd> uh wait it is a dataset[16:32:43] <Dagobert> Mmmhhhh... On Solaris 10 you definitely need it[16:32:48] <tsoome> no[16:32:57] <tsoome> nor earlier[16:32:58] <clint-> the ipblock I setup was doing good for a while.. with other attacks.. shorewall wasn't picking up.. but I bet opensolaris doesn't have an issue with attacks much :)[16:33:01] <clint-> heya tsoome[16:34:13] <clint-> hee, my associate in #mandriva, <blingme> clint-: but, Oracle has *just* made it not so Open ....[16:34:15] <RoyK^> clint-: with the current btrfs progress, I guess it'll be around with zfs-like functionality around 2020[16:34:23] <EisNerd> thx Dagobert[16:34:25] <clint-> clint- yeah I know..[16:34:28] <EisNerd> ok have to hurry now[16:34:33] <clint-> lol[16:34:45] <clint-> can't we support osol ourselves?[16:35:02] <causality> clint- it'd end up like lunix then[16:35:03] <causality> chaos.[16:35:10] <causality> there'd be 50 distros that partially work.[16:35:14] <clint-> I mean theoretically its open source right?[16:35:26] <clint-> man theres already too many[16:35:30] <clint-> you kiddin me :P[16:35:36] <tsoome> clint-: read less fud. really.[16:35:45] <causality> open source doesnt necessarily mean a good product[16:35:47] <clint-> I'm excited I don't care.. I"ll support the project[16:35:50] <clint-> $$[16:35:52] <RoyK^> causality: seriously, ubuntu works, redhat works, even suse and mandriva and gentoo work[16:36:05] <causality> RoyK^ for certain things..[16:36:10] <clint-> just got a like new small desk, yesterday, I have a nice L shape workstation desk, but waiting to move[16:36:22] <RoyK^> causality: for what does ubuntu _not_ work?[16:36:25] <clint-> got to get these boxes and stuff, and setup a system, and I'm going to install osol on its own disk..[16:36:43] <clint-> I don't really like to have multiple operating systems on 1 disk, at 1 time I was managing 6 of them on 1 disk, in a laptop.. hee[16:36:44] <causality> RoyK^ i'm not going to engage in an os flame war[16:36:51] <clint-> and likewise for the workstation. I had..[16:36:59] <clint-> via Acronis Disk Director Suite,[16:37:15] <bda> RoyK^: I installed Ubuntu once. Then I did an upgrade. When it had rebooted, it had removed the RAID card that was in the previous stock kernel.[16:37:18] <bda> So my system didn't boot.[16:37:19] <bda> EOF.[16:37:27] <RoyK^> causality: I'm in operations and we have 50+ linux servers and a bunch of solaris servers - most of them just work[16:37:30] <bda> This wasn't a dist-upgrade. It was just an update within stable.[16:37:33] <clint-> I think I was running, debian, windows, fedora, gentoo, ubuntu, mandriva[16:37:33] <Dagobert> tsoome: I just checked. If you specifiy an ip != localhost it does an NFS-mount. localhost always goes to lofs. So you were sort of right ;-)[16:37:45] <RoyK^> bda: that's never something I've been out for - sounds wierd[16:37:46] <clint-> talkin about driving yourself crazy[16:38:02] <bda> RoyK^: shrug. That was my last experience with Ubuntu.[16:38:03] *** santoroj has left #opensolaris[16:38:12] <RoyK^> bda: when was this?[16:38:17] <bda> Three months ago.[16:38:33] <RoyK^> the LTS releases from ubuntu are very stable imho[16:38:40] <clint-> I stopped using ubuntu[16:38:43] <clint-> at LTS[16:38:47] <bda> Evidently not.[16:38:51] <clint-> I started working with it.. back in 2005, when I started on debian sarge[16:38:54] <RoyK^> using non-LTS-releases is nothing I would recommend for servers[16:38:58] <clint-> I started working with hedgehog[16:38:59] *** sergiusens has quit IRC[16:39:00] <clint-> I rem the exact build[16:39:11] <bda> RoyK^: If they can't even keep their kernel configs stable in-tree, well.[16:39:15] <clint-> then it was breezy badger.. I think[16:39:18] <clint-> all the way up to LTS[16:39:19] <tsoome> Dagobert: * hydra.ml.ee:/export/home/& ; /export/home/tsoome /home/tsoome lofs dev=401000b 1270046468[16:39:23] <causality> RoyK^: perhaps we're looking at different definitions of "work"[16:39:32] <clint-> I stopped work with debian @ lenny testing[16:39:32] <causality> you're looking at it from a geek perspective, eg "i cant install this and it works"[16:39:38] <causality> i am looking at how it 'works' for an organisation[16:40:04] <RoyK^> causality: I work for a research institute and things have to work, and they do[16:40:05] <clint-> what I think is really cool, and I admire. is that they ported the architecture for SunOS, Solaris etc, to more architecture[16:40:25] <clint-> that gives the ability for more people to run it, test it, report bugs, develop it more,[16:40:28] <causality> RoyK^ as i said,, different definitions of 'work'[16:40:35] *** lateau has joined #opensolaris[16:40:39] <clint-> heya RoyK^[16:40:42] <RoyK^> causality: what's your definition?[16:41:17] <RoyK^> mine is 'no need to touch it except updates'[16:42:02] <causality> RoyK^: what is your companys policy regarding security when it chooses a technology? what process do you go through?[16:42:06] <clint-> I thought this commercial was so inspiring, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ5sL5niW2w[16:42:31] <clint-> I can do 8 thousand things as easy as 1, I can work 70 years without making a mistake.. :)[16:42:44] <clint-> gee, wish I could say the same about the linux kernel[16:42:49] <clint-> :P[16:42:51] <RoyK^> causality: heh - what makes you think Ubuntu LTS is insecure?[16:42:53] *** ThePickle has joined #opensolaris[16:42:56] <clint-> and the file systems..[16:43:03] <clint-> kind of sad.. eh :P[16:43:06] <causality> RoyK^: you avoided the question[16:43:29] <tsoome> Dagobert: even if i did write ip:/.... in auto_home, its still doing lofs mounts[16:43:29] <clint-> I can tell you the most stable system.. :)[16:43:43] <causality> clint- one that's switched off?[16:43:46] <clint-> :)[16:43:50] <clint-> there you go :D[16:44:04] <bda> The materials are still decaying.[16:44:08] <bda> You need to put it in a zero tau pod.[16:44:13] <clint-> lets be serious though, openBSD is pretty tight[16:44:21] *** Hedonista has quit IRC[16:44:25] <clint-> and from what I have researched.. solaris seems pretty strong.[16:44:40] <causality> security is more than what holes are present[16:44:44] <clint-> really, I think it all comes down to the user, and who is working with it[16:44:52] <causality> it's about how they're managed..[16:44:56] <clint-> but sometimes, you don't change things, unless you break it[16:44:57] <RoyK^> causality: no, I answered with a question - what would make the company more secure if everything was running on solaris?[16:45:03] <clint-> yep[16:45:14] <causality> and for most decent organisations, waiting for someone to write a non-obligated patch isn't acceptable.[16:45:35] <causality> RoyK^: my questions are nothing to do with solaris or any other specific technology[16:45:47] <RoyK^> for important servers, we pay for support[16:45:50] <bda> A friend of mine did his PhD paper on using graph theory to mitigate attack surfaces.[16:46:02] <RoyK^> for work-horses like number crunching machines, we don't[16:46:02] <clint-> oh yeah, when I was trying to load the live cd, on a customer of mine.. 2 systems of theres.. yesterday at there house.. on 1 machine, it booted into the console.. which I did the .. jack, and then opensolaris right?[16:46:21] <bda> e.g., introducing enough heterogenity into a system so if you take out x, you can't get y and z because they're completely different.[16:46:23] <RoyK^> causality: and, yes, you can get very good support and quick fixes also for ubuntu[16:46:26] <bda> (paper is more complex than that, but)[16:46:32] <clint-> I even chose VESA, but it wouldn't boot into X, and it had, nvidia mx 400 or something like that old dell machine, I can't stand them,[16:46:35] <causality> RoyK^: your tunnel vision is due to two reasons, 1) an engineering perspective and 2) small time infrastructure[16:46:41] <bda> Of course, that introduces enough management complexity that shit tends to done get fucked up.[16:46:43] <clint-> I like building.. performance towers with Asus motherboards, thats me[16:46:50] <RoyK^> causality: I don't get your point[16:46:55] <RoyK^> causality: tunnel vision?[16:46:57] <causality> and you wont either, so lets move on[16:47:05] <RoyK^> please explain[16:47:05] <clint-> Seagate hard drives, or Western digital, but I love the SEA's :)[16:47:08] <causality> i cant roy[16:47:32] <clint-> well... if your using open source.. you gotta be open minded eh?[16:47:33] <causality> clint- i received two hd's in the post today stuffed in padded envelopes :([16:47:35] <causality> i doubt they'll work[16:47:36] <RoyK^> causality: so you're just a general know-it-all?[16:47:38] <clint-> I'm open minded til the day I pass on[16:47:50] *** deet has quit IRC[16:47:53] <clint-> into the Universe of infinity matter and definition, and dark matter[16:48:07] <clint-> oh yeah?[16:48:14] <clint-> I order from newegg a lot.. more than I do tigerdirect.[16:48:19] <causality> RoyK^ there's no need to get personal, i made an observation that you see things through engineering spectacles.[16:48:31] <clint-> yeah, they don't really ship the boxes anymore really[16:48:35] <clint-> its strange[16:48:47] <causality> clint- LHC is up to power[16:48:53] <clint-> LHC?[16:48:53] <causality> we're all gonna die.[16:49:01] *** longcat has quit IRC[16:49:01] <causality> but i will before you, if by a matter of nano seconds.[16:49:03] <\amethyst> clint-: half power[16:49:05] <AbeFroman> only 7TeV. full power is 14.[16:49:15] <\amethyst> they already did collisions over a day ago[16:49:17] <causality> up to power for the next two years, i meant :)[16:49:19] <RoyK^> causality: of course, we do run important storage and so on on Solaris because it's stable, over time, but for your general server, it won't have to last 10+ years[16:49:28] <clint-> heya \amethyst , AbeFroman[16:49:49] <\amethyst> oop, s/clint-/causality/[16:49:55] <causality> :)[16:49:59] <tsoome> your x86 server will be replaced like 3 times during that period.[16:50:00] <\amethyst> clint-: LHC = large hadron collider[16:50:01] <clint-> you don't think it will last 10 years?[16:50:07] <clint-> on a solid state 3.5 form factor hd?[16:50:14] <clint-> hee[16:50:21] <clint-> why limit yourself[16:50:24] <tsoome> ssd will be dead long before[16:50:26] <causality> CERN have quite a bit of storage[16:50:30] <causality> i' mwondering what they're using[16:50:33] <clint-> yeah, they got optical stuff now[16:50:40] <clint-> and have had it..[16:50:44] <tsoome> every kind of crap. and have benn bitten from that[16:50:56] <tsoome> been*[16:50:57] <lblume> causality: One of the screenshots I saw for their result was a CDE window.[16:51:01] <clint-> you know there going to have optical motherboards[16:51:10] <clint-> and I believe they already have stuff there testing with[16:51:12] <lblume> So, not OpenSolaris :-P[16:51:13] <clint-> I mean look at nanotechnology[16:51:20] * causality likes CDE[16:51:25] <lblume> clint-: You can't. It's small.[16:51:30] <causality> although it should be called UDE[16:51:31] <clint-> look at the fact, they have the nano fibers.. and the military gear, and the nano bots..[16:51:31] <AbeFroman> haha[16:51:33] <causality> uncommon :)[16:51:36] <\amethyst> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LHC_Computing_Grid says mostly Scientific Linux[16:52:14] <causality> "The CERN computer center, considered "Tier 0" of the LHC Computing Grid, has a dedicated 10 Gb/s connection to the counting room"[16:52:14] <clint-> oh yeah, any kernel param I should pass , with vGA issues .. I mean.. X not displaying at boot[16:52:17] <causality> i'd hope it has mor ethan one.[16:52:31] <clint-> I chose VESA, but heck, on 2 machines.. 1 didn't boot into X,and 1, didn't even pass stage2[16:52:43] <clint-> but there crap computers anyways :)[16:53:03] *** Hedonista has joined #opensolaris[16:53:41] <clint-> see, I like building stable products, http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n312/clintsnet/?action=view¤t=DSCN0380.jpg&newest=1[16:53:48] <clint-> engineering something that will last a long time.. not a short period[16:54:20] <causality> RoyK^: the point i was eluding to is your operational model does not scale very well[16:54:22] <clint-> I'm not using the Aerocool ExtremEngine 3T's anymore though, especially the 250mm side fan, its not needed, just an 80mm or 90mm, nothing more...[16:54:40] <clint-> for sides.. of course front intakeand rear exhaust fans are nice.. vantec hdd coolers are a plus too[16:55:05] *** leito has quit IRC[16:55:24] <causality> clint- i've used some cases in the past with 250mm side fans[16:55:30] <causality> it's an efficient way to do it[16:55:32] <clint-> yeah, you need filters[16:55:51] <causality> bigger the better when it comes to fans[16:55:52] <clint-> you need the nice fine .. air filters though, to keep the dust out of the towers, cases etc[16:55:56] *** psychicist has joined #opensolaris[16:55:59] <clint-> not really[16:56:03] <RoyK^> causality: how?[16:56:26] <clint-> the quality of the bearings, and the circuitry[16:56:31] <clint-> thats what matters[16:56:35] <clint-> first[16:56:35] <causality> RoyK^: i assume there are 2-3 people supporting these 50 servers[16:56:42] <CIA-21> Michael Bergknoff <Michael.Bergknoff at Sun dot COM>: 6932788 prtdiag -v exit status error when V_VBAT Sensor's status is warning (0volts)[16:56:49] <clint-> brb[16:57:18] <RoyK^> causality: yeah, and?[16:57:40] <RoyK^> it's pretty general stuff, well documented etc[16:58:06] <causality> RoyK^: do you think you could scale to 500 servers and 30 support people in exactly the same way you operate today?[16:58:13] *** Dagobert has quit IRC[16:58:22] <causality> with it being cost efficient[16:58:37] <RoyK^> causality: it's quite unlikely for this to grow the way it is[16:58:49] <RoyK^> virtualising stuff is quite a good idea[16:58:52] <causality> that doesnt change what i said about it not scaling.[16:59:02] <RoyK^> I still don't understand what you're at[16:59:19] <causality> it doesnt matter, lets move on[16:59:50] *** t3hreal_adamd has joined #opensolaris[16:59:51] <RoyK^> at first, you were talking about how bad ubuntu was, and now it's our IT dept, about which I guess you know little[17:00:40] *** ball has left #opensolaris[17:00:46] *** sndcrb has joined #opensolaris[17:01:14] <alanc> to end-users, all IT departments suck, since it's their job to make the business run efficiently, not to make the users happy[17:01:29] *** leito has joined #opensolaris[17:01:30] *** nitrile has joined #opensolaris[17:02:04] <johannes> alanc: and users only notice them in case of failures :-)[17:02:09] *** raichoo has quit IRC[17:02:24] *** t3hrealadamd has joined #opensolaris[17:02:44] *** longcat has joined #opensolaris[17:03:17] <alanc> johannes: yes - the general case of something I saw @alecmuffet say on twitter this week: "if you do security perfectly, you are a cost and deemed expendable; do it imperfectly and you are incompetent and fired. Go figure."[17:03:25] *** edogawaconan has joined #opensolaris[17:03:46] *** evik has quit IRC[17:03:50] <lblume> alanc: I made my users happy![17:03:51] *** t3h_realadamd has quit IRC[17:03:56] <clint-> Roy , I'm an IT/engineer as well[17:04:17] <lblume> Those who had good tea and chocolate to share, at least.[17:04:52] *** calSHOP is now known as calumb[17:04:58] *** t3hreal_adamd has quit IRC[17:05:21] *** hecsa has quit IRC[17:05:41] *** nikolam has quit IRC[17:06:15] <nomad_fr> \quit[17:06:16] *** nomad_fr has quit IRC[17:06:33] *** nikolam has joined #opensolaris[17:08:07] *** t3h_realadamd has joined #opensolaris[17:09:43] <g4lt-mordant> alanc, uhm, YM @alecmuffett, HTH[17:10:11] *** held has quit IRC[17:10:12] *** throatwarbler has joined #opensolaris[17:10:25] *** tsoome has quit IRC[17:10:31] *** hakmn has quit IRC[17:11:15] *** t3hrealadamd has quit IRC[17:11:49] *** LaidBack_01 has joined #opensolaris[17:12:36] *** wewek has quit IRC[17:13:27] <longcat> how's the next release coming?[17:13:29] <longcat> gonna be on time?[17:13:54] *** throatwarbler has left #opensolaris[17:14:06] <longcat> and more importantly are there gonna be any known stupid bugs in it. for which a delay would be acceptable.[17:15:06] <causality> you have more chance of receiving a blowjob from the pope[17:15:16] <longcat> pipe down you troll[17:15:43] <lblume> March ends in 41 minutes for me. Not going to be on time.[17:16:13] *** nitrile has quit IRC[17:16:24] <g4lt-mordant> lblume, going to count down to new years? ;P[17:16:25] <causality> longcat, probably best you keep your FUD to the other network[17:17:40] *** PhlowX has joined #opensolaris[17:17:56] <lblume> g4lt-mordant: I really, really hope that 2010.03 won't be ultimately renamed 2011.01 :-D[17:18:07] *** basic` has quit IRC[17:18:12] <lblume> See you all![17:18:13] <RoyK^> causality: imho you're main the FUD export in here[17:18:27] *** held has joined #opensolaris[17:18:41] <causality> RoyK^: if you wish to go on a crusade because i said your operational model doesn't scale well, be my guest.[17:18:54] *** lblume has quit IRC[17:19:28] <forquare> I do have to agree with longcat partially. It would be nice to see someone telling the community why things have been delayed, a post over on opensolaris.org would be nice. People have asked, and they just get shot down...[17:20:29] <longcat> lack of or poor communication is a bad sign[17:20:44] <RoyK^> causality: heh - you have no idea how operations work at our place, Sir[17:20:45] <RoyK^> causality: you started off blaming the wrong OS and then went on blaming other shite - don't you have better stuff to spend time doing?[17:21:19] <causality> RoyK^: i didnt say anything about a specific o/s, you're having trouble intepreting what i said which i said to just leave it.[17:21:32] <causality> which is why.. even[17:21:46] <RoyK^> causality: scroll up, troll[17:23:09] <causality> i know what i said..[17:23:44] * effremn builds a bridge for all the trolls today[17:24:42] <effremn> 11:27am up 673 days 19:31 :)[17:25:25] <causality> i'm not really sure how i could be classified as a troll for pointing out that having a bazillion lunix distributions isn't as productive as the single distribution model as pushed by this channel with opensolaris[17:25:39] <causality> but each to their own.[17:25:53] * bda advocates /ignore.[17:26:09] * g4lt-mordant advocates violence[17:26:14] * Hedonista yawns[17:26:34] <clint-> gotta go.. walmart charge me, $201.60 on something I never got lmao[17:26:35] <bda> Each according to their natures.[17:26:48] <clint-> argh .. have to dispute this.. I paid cash because my card wasn't working for some reason.. and she kept swiping it[17:26:50] <longcat> bda: does that mean you're ignorant?[17:26:55] <g4lt-mordant> just remember kiddiez, violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. the competent get it over with MUCH earlier[17:26:57] <clint-> see you all later[17:27:04] <causality> ttfn clint[17:27:16] <longcat> just joking anyway[17:27:21] <clint-> you know how I can get display working if its not loading[17:28:18] <effremn> bda - did you just sneak in a Marx reference?[17:28:38] *** clint- has quit IRC[17:29:26] <bda> Well, there's plenty of farce in here. :)[17:29:35] <bda> Tragedy less so.[17:37:54] *** stevel has joined #opensolaris[17:42:02] *** bogdomania has joined #opensolaris[17:43:17] <bogdomania> cheers guys.. can anyone help me setting up my internet conn. on my fresh osol install..? i`m a noob,and i can`t get the internet working..[17:43:54] <bogdomania> my eth driver is installed, but i have a static connection,my isp gave me the ip addr, gtw net msk and dns[17:44:41] *** chemosh has quit IRC[17:46:39] *** kmays has quit IRC[17:48:38] *** charlieS_ is now known as charlieS[17:49:27] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris[17:51:49] *** milek has quit IRC[17:55:25] <effremn> bogdomania - http://wiki.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/Belenix_FAQ#How_do_I_configure_a_static_IP_Address_and_setup_networking_.3F[17:55:42] *** TomJ has quit IRC[17:56:22] *** wrapster has joined #opensolaris[17:57:43] <bogdomania> k,thanks. I'll try[17:57:54] *** bogdomania has quit IRC[17:59:14] <wrapster> in the latest onnv-builds.. How are all the SUNW pkgs built? i know that its going to use IPS internally.. But say the contents of the previously present prototype_com files , where will they be.. and how are they accessed/used to build the pkgs?[18:02:39] *** saite has joined #opensolaris[18:05:14] <timsf> they're not built[18:05:41] <timsf> http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/pkg/README.pkg[18:06:09] *** TomJ has joined #opensolaris[18:06:10] *** gswain has joined #opensolaris[18:08:16] <alanc> prototype_com all went away in 136 with the conversion from SVR4 to IPS[18:10:38] *** lateau has quit IRC[18:11:17] <wrapster> alanc: yep i understand that. but just wanted to know how this new mode of packaging works in creating deliverables.[18:11:34] *** twisti has quit IRC[18:11:44] <wrapster> Could not find the actual technicals that i was looking for on IPS so im asking here.[18:12:18] *** comay has joined #opensolaris[18:12:20] <alanc> wrapster: so read the link timsf gave you, that has the technical details[18:12:29] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o comay[18:12:32] <alanc> which is actually a README file in the source now[18:12:34] <wrapster> yes going hrough this.[18:13:20] *** Kitty has quit IRC[18:13:54] *** Kitty has joined #opensolaris[18:14:52] *** Klinki has quit IRC[18:16:15] *** ziyourenxiang has quit IRC[18:16:47] *** relling has joined #opensolaris[18:19:49] *** jamesd2 has joined #opensolaris[18:21:11] *** twisti has joined #opensolaris[18:21:59] *** swift has quit IRC[18:22:19] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris[18:26:25] *** dalibor has joined #opensolaris[18:26:27] *** raichoo has joined #opensolaris[18:26:46] *** Mousk4r has joined #opensolaris[18:26:49] *** MattMan has left #opensolaris[18:27:58] *** hnhn has quit IRC[18:29:42] *** achester has quit IRC[18:32:19] *** gswain has left #opensolaris[18:35:41] <longcat> I got around #2 by having two services for a single repo, the public read-only one, and a writable one. The writable one is firewalled from the world and publishes go to it. Then the readonly is HUP'd to refresh its shit. Of course that wont help for local.[18:37:17] <longcat> rather SIGUSR1[18:38:36] *** sipior has quit IRC[18:40:35] *** aszeszo has quit IRC[18:40:44] *** timsf has quit IRC[18:41:19] *** kimc has joined #opensolaris[18:42:07] *** Mousk4r has quit IRC[18:42:24] *** sactodave has joined #opensolaris[18:43:13] *** timsf has joined #opensolaris[18:43:23] *** timsf has quit IRC[18:43:28] *** drecute has joined #opensolaris[18:45:06] *** hakmn has joined #opensolaris[18:46:31] *** Mousk4r has joined #opensolaris[18:47:20] *** calumb has quit IRC[18:47:40] *** Kedare has joined #opensolaris[18:54:14] *** ewdafa has quit IRC[18:56:57] *** Erwann has quit IRC[18:57:17] *** miltondsilva has joined #opensolaris[18:58:03] *** miltondsilva has quit IRC[18:58:08] *** Fullmoon has joined #opensolaris[19:02:35] *** Mousk4r1 has joined #opensolaris[19:03:36] *** Edgeman has quit IRC[19:05:26] *** Mousk4r has quit IRC[19:08:17] *** |AbsyntH| has quit IRC[19:09:57] *** InTheWings has joined #opensolaris[19:10:17] <InTheWings> NO MORE Osol ?!?§,![19:11:04] <sickness> :((([19:11:46] <InTheWings> Any fork will survive ? Nexenta ?[19:12:01] <jamesd2> InTheWings, what are you talking about?[19:12:29] <raichoo> I guess he is mixing up Solaris 10 and OpenSolaris.[19:12:46] <turtle> ORACLE WANT TO TAKE OUR GUNS AND SEND THEIR BLACK SOCIALIST ARMY AFTER US[19:12:52] <turtle> DON'T FILL OUT THE CENSUS[19:12:59] <InTheWings> http://www.katonda.com/news/solaries-no-more-free-open-solaris-may-die/936/2010[19:13:17] <InTheWings> linked from news everywhere[19:13:42] <eviljames> FUD[19:13:53] <eviljames> At least until it is substantiated.[19:13:55] <CosmicDJ> yeah come back when your URL starts with oracle.com ;)[19:14:08] <turtle> or doesn't include the word "may"[19:14:14] <turtle> STUFF MIGHT HAPPEN[19:14:21] <raichoo> I really have to get used to that "oracle" stuff…[19:14:36] <eviljames> "Oh no Oracle is trying to monetize their purchase of Solaris, they're going to somehow magically un-open-source the CDDL licensed opensolaris!" OHNOEZ[19:14:40] <kimc> what is Project Wonderland ?[19:14:44] <InTheWings> 'Nicole Yankelovich posted a Sun Blog' <- maybe you're ablr to find this post[19:14:52] <gtirloni> CosmicDJ: good one. lol.[19:15:22] <gtirloni> kimc: something to do with michael jackson i guess[19:15:27] <kimc> heh[19:15:33] <jamesd2> InTheWings, did you notice that there isn't a link anywhere in that story?[19:15:47] <eviljames> Everybody hammer the mercurial server just in case! We're gonna need the streisand effect to happen here![19:16:34] <raichoo> I just don't get why there is so much FUD around OpenSolaris…[19:16:54] *** gebi has joined #opensolaris[19:17:17] <jamesd2> InTheWings, oh yeah and obama is a muslim, and was born in kenya, and i will get free food from applebee by forwarding emails....[19:17:20] <effremn> http://www.projectwonderland.com/[19:17:35] <wrapster> guys.. im currently using onnv_134 and having weird problems on one of the machines that is running this version...[19:17:55] <tsoome> raichoo: thats simple- you spread FUD when you are afraid.[19:18:14] <raichoo> So it seems[19:18:33] <wrapster> i was trying to get this working on one of my machines.. http://www.kamiogi.net/Kamiogi/FrameDragging/Entries/2009/5/25OpenSolarisZFSiSCSITimeMachinein20Minutesor_Less.html[19:18:46] <kimc> I looked aroung the Sun site yesterday in the Solaris download area for info the 'new' licensing[19:18:48] <wrapster> and iscsi target service is failing ..[19:18:58] <wrapster> with this http://pastie.org/897381[19:19:06] <InTheWings> quote 1 is : http://blogs.sun.com/wonderland/entry/good_news_and_bad_news[19:19:17] <wrapster> i verified that libxml.so.2 is present.[19:19:30] <kimc> if anyone is interested they should take a look.. its maybe not what you think[19:19:55] <CosmicDJ> InTheWings: maybe someone should tell your news guy that proj. wonderland != opensolaris..[19:19:59] *** knight_ has quit IRC[19:20:19] <InTheWings> But they seems effectively to cut oss resources :/[19:20:25] <CosmicDJ> and honestly, I've heard wonderland for the first time here.[19:20:36] <InTheWings> want me to sing ?[19:20:45] <raichoo> I never really got the point of project wonderland.[19:21:40] <gtirloni> raichoo: if it follows secondlife, then it's porn[19:22:05] <raichoo> Ok, now I want it. Where's the download?[19:22:30] <CosmicDJ> openwonderpr0n^Wland.org[19:22:58] *** Odin- has quit IRC[19:23:00] <turtle> open porn land! that sounds like it could work.[19:23:12] <raichoo> Can I be a princess in OpenWonderland?[19:23:47] *** xtrondo has quit IRC[19:23:51] <sickness> lulz[19:23:53] <CosmicDJ> it's getting warm in here[19:23:57] <sickness> I vote for teh pr0n!!!11 =)[19:23:59] *** sHellUx has joined #opensolaris[19:24:54] <turtle> raichoo: we can all be a princess if it's in our hearts[19:25:02] <CosmicDJ> InTheWings: anyway, we'll just have to wait and see what Oracle wants to do with OpenSolaris...[19:25:40] <raichoo> turtle: That sounds beautiful… you are making me cry over here…… Where are my nachos?[19:25:41] <CosmicDJ> I'd rather be a brave knight..[19:26:01] <InTheWings> Well, while the news are relating "no more open solaris", I must admin the pointed article is quite unsufficient[19:26:05] <InTheWings> s/admin/admit[19:26:34] <CosmicDJ> InTheWings: yeah, as always, don't believe everything you read[19:26:40] *** held has quit IRC[19:27:04] *** zenjuzu has quit IRC[19:27:22] <InTheWings> Where does the "rebranded, 90 days licence" comes from...[19:27:29] <raichoo> CosmicDJ: Does that mean that there are no nazi flying saucers on the moon?[19:28:01] *** Spencer_tt has quit IRC[19:28:48] *** Edgeman has joined #opensolaris[19:28:51] <CosmicDJ> raichoo: no but there's a secret nazi base on the north pole ;)[19:29:38] <sickness> CosmicDJ: on the moon ;P[19:29:55] <CosmicDJ> proof http://www.gnosticliberationfront.com/nazi_bases_in_antarctica.htm ;-)[19:30:50] <gtirloni> omg![19:30:57] *** hakmn has quit IRC[19:31:12] *** hajma has joined #opensolaris[19:31:16] <CosmicDJ> hehe[19:33:32] *** deet has joined #opensolaris[19:34:02] *** xtrondo has joined #opensolaris[19:34:54] *** _matze has joined #opensolaris[19:34:58] <_matze> Hi[19:35:04] <turtle> woah that link is awesome[19:35:18] <turtle> how do i get to be a cyborg that the aliens control with their thoughts?[19:35:27] <turtle> i'll bet you get bad ass health care if you're one of them[19:36:05] *** Fullmoon has quit IRC[19:36:50] <jamesd2> with all the fud and other email crap i am recieving its a great day to watch a movie....[19:36:53] *** RoyK^ is now known as RoyK[19:37:55] *** Spencer_tt has joined #opensolaris[19:37:58] *** deet has quit IRC[19:38:57] <_matze> :D finally replaced slackware with opensolaris ... :)[19:39:04] <alanc> InTheWings: Project Wonderland didn't die because it was open source, but because it was a research project not related to any product - completely different from OpenSolaris[19:39:10] <CosmicDJ> jamesd2: still waiting for tron, btw anyone knows where I can download SolarOS? ;) http://www.c0t0d0s0.org/archives/6408-SolarOS.html[19:39:21] *** achester has joined #opensolaris[19:40:00] <alanc> similar to Project Looking Glass that Sun killed several years before (causing several of those project members to go to work on wonderland instead)[19:41:16] <JeremyK> wonderland?[19:41:21] *** Kae has joined #opensolaris[19:41:25] <JeremyK> the... 2d kiddy mmo? :P[19:41:30] <effremn> you know - where Micahel Jackson lived[19:41:58] <CosmicDJ> no where alice followed the rabbit[19:42:03] *** bourbon has quit IRC[19:42:36] <effremn> fairy tales, trolls and magical places day here on #opensolaris[19:42:57] <alanc> JeremyK: no, the open source, 3D secondlife-sorta-thing[19:43:15] <JeremyK> alanc: is it also dead? google isn't giving me anything :P[19:43:40] *** deet has joined #opensolaris[19:43:57] <alanc> Project Wonderland? Sun/Oracle is no longer supporting it - the developers started an open foundation and got new corporate sponsors[19:44:12] <alanc> never heard of a wonderland mm[19:44:12] <alanc> o[19:44:17] <JeremyK> oh, it was a Sun project?[19:44:31] <JeremyK> ahh ok got it now[19:44:35] <JeremyK> <3 wikipedia[19:44:43] *** dieta has joined #opensolaris[19:45:03] <alanc> yes, it was a Sun Labs project, not part of any product group[19:45:09] <alanc> http://openwonderland.org/[19:49:39] *** jollyd has joined #opensolaris[19:50:14] *** jollyd has left #opensolaris[19:57:00] *** held has joined #opensolaris[19:59:29] *** lattera has joined #opensolaris[20:00:06] *** coodu has joined #opensolaris[20:00:26] *** Mick27 has quit IRC[20:01:20] *** drecute has quit IRC[20:02:38] <wrapster> anyone listening to my issue?[20:02:44] <wrapster> on iscsi[20:03:29] * gtirloni mumbles something about oracle[20:03:50] <wrapster> gtirloni: talking to me?[20:04:23] *** coodu has quit IRC[20:05:08] *** nachox has joined #opensolaris[20:05:30] *** bubbva has joined #opensolaris[20:07:04] <gtirloni> if i've to explain it then it's not fun[20:07:15] <gtirloni> anyway, that link you posted on kamiogi is broken[20:07:24] *** tosh_ has joined #opensolaris[20:08:49] *** _matze has quit IRC[20:09:12] *** drecute has joined #opensolaris[20:10:28] *** ThothCrimson has quit IRC[20:10:48] <wrapster> gtirloni: http://www.kamiogi.net/Kamiogi/Frame_Dragging/Entries/2009/5/25_OpenSolaris_ZFS_iSCSI_Time_Machine_in_20_Minutes_or_Less.html[20:10:54] *** xtrondo has quit IRC[20:11:47] *** tosh_ has quit IRC[20:11:49] <gtirloni> what build are you using?[20:12:04] *** sergov has joined #opensolaris[20:12:20] *** betchou has quit IRC[20:12:23] *** tosh_ has joined #opensolaris[20:12:39] *** knight_ has joined #opensolaris[20:12:39] <alanc> the old iscsi went away in recent ON builds[20:13:06] <crazed> oh no![20:13:15] <crazed> no comstar integration though?[20:13:19] <alanc> looks like 136 according to http://static.opensolaris.org/on/flagdays/136-140.html[20:13:20] <tsoome> i wont suggest to use iscsi for timemachine.[20:13:36] <tsoome> been there, done that and it sucks.[20:13:39] <alanc> crazed: it went away because comster was integrated long ago[20:13:44] <crazed> oh[20:14:01] *** hohum_ is now known as hohum[20:14:05] <crazed> well that's good[20:14:11] <tsoome> rather build netatalk and use afp based storage[20:14:34] <alanc> there were both for a while to allow people to transition, but now there's just comstar[20:14:47] <crazed> i guess i need to transition then[20:15:29] <crazed> will all the target names get changed[20:17:06] *** tosh_ has quit IRC[20:18:05] <gtirloni> smrt: explain comstar[20:18:06] <smrt> COMSTAR is a software framework that enables you to convert any OpenSolaris host into a SCSI target device that can be accessed over a storage network by initiator hosts (think iSCSI / FC). To install COMSTAR 'pkg install storage-server SUNWiscsit'[20:19:19] <oni-work> crazed: if by "COMSTAR Intigration" you mean "shareiscsi=on" working with COMSTAR, then there is no integrtation![20:19:28] <crazed> oh[20:19:35] <crazed> damn[20:20:46] *** tosh_ has joined #opensolaris[20:21:56] <jamesd2> oni-work, so they are going to go backwards in ZFS.... since iscsi old fashion targets were working... putting comstar without zfs intergration would break zfs so doesn't seeem likely[20:23:22] <wrapster> gtirloni: im on onnv-134[20:25:28] <wrapster> alanc: but this problem , its not with regard to COMSTAR or the traditional iscsi mode right? the icsit service if failing to start it self...[20:25:43] <wrapster> and thats my problem.[20:25:52] <alanc> wrapster: sorry, I've already said everything I know about iscsi[20:26:04] <alanc> I've never actually used it - I use NFS for sharing files[20:26:19] <wrapster> alanc: ok thanks..[20:26:27] *** miltondsilva has joined #opensolaris[20:26:32] <wrapster> but if anyone knows how i can troublshoot it. pls let me know.[20:26:39] <tsoome> only set it once or twice by the book[20:27:14] <wrapster> the strange thing is that i have other machines also running onnv-134 and this service did not fail to start on them...[20:35:04] *** Calibellus_ has joined #opensolaris[20:42:41] *** miltondsilva has quit IRC[20:45:07] *** knight_ has quit IRC[20:45:45] *** knight_ has joined #opensolaris[20:46:14] *** drecute has quit IRC[20:47:18] *** randw has quit IRC[20:47:21] *** randw has joined #opensolaris[20:48:27] *** Yu\2 has quit IRC[20:49:00] <gtirloni> wrapster: do you have /usr/lib/libxml* ?[20:50:21] <wrapster> gtirloni: yes i have em all[20:53:47] <gtirloni> weird. i think i'd undo everything and follow a comstar tutorial[20:54:13] *** merzo has joined #opensolaris[20:54:57] *** CodeWar has joined #opensolaris[20:56:20] <CIA-21> Mark J Musante <Mark.Musante at Sun dot COM>: 6917066 zfs block picking can be improved[20:56:20] <CIA-21> Girish Moodalbail <Girish.Moodalbail at Sun dot COM>: 6927499 ipmgmtd will go out of sync when an interface is moved into an IPMP group[20:58:07] <forquare> If I use a sysidcfg file to configure a zone, do I need to use zlogin -C zonename to actually make the config happen?[20:59:10] <tsoome> if your config is complete and correct, then no[20:59:11] *** sergov has quit IRC[20:59:27] <tsoome> you may still wanna verify if it is:)[21:04:37] *** twilling has quit IRC[21:06:18] <wrapster> gtirloni: its not about COMSTAR[21:06:22] <wrapster> its like this.[21:06:45] <wrapster> the service is failing whether its comstar or not would it really matter for the service?[21:06:48] <wrapster> I dont think so.[21:09:23] *** Calibellus__ has joined #opensolaris[21:10:11] *** t3h_realadamd has quit IRC[21:11:55] *** tosh_ has quit IRC[21:13:00] <yippi> i know that you can use getisax() to tell what extensions (MMX ,SSE) the CPU supports. But how can you detect what extensions are supported for a given set of compiler arguments?[21:14:05] <yippi> I need to construct a configure check to figure out whether to enable MMX code or not. Checking getisax() tells me it is available, but if the compiler isn't passed a valid -xarch value to support MMX, the code won't compile.[21:14:17] <forquare> tsoome: Thanks :)[21:15:40] <yippi> so if I compile a test program with arbitrary arguments, is there a check the program can do to tell me if MMX,SSE is supported in this binary?[21:16:28] *** sergiusens has joined #opensolaris[21:19:21] *** Dagobert has joined #opensolaris[21:22:15] *** hunter has joined #opensolaris[21:22:27] <eviljames> hmm... so it seems developer/versioning/subversion doesn't install /usr/apache2/2.2/libexec/64/mod_{authz,dav}_svn.so ?[21:23:46] *** miki has joined #opensolaris[21:24:01] *** miki has quit IRC[21:24:47] *** miki has joined #opensolaris[21:25:11] <iFire> yet another opensolaris fud artcle >.<[21:26:13] <alanc> yippi: the configure.ac checks I wrote for libpixman to check for MMX & SSE for Sun compilers are at http://cgit.freedesktop.org/pixman/tree/configure.ac#n175[21:26:14] *** q5sys has joined #opensolaris[21:28:05] *** bklang has joined #opensolaris[21:28:46] <sstallion_work> yippi: *poke*[21:29:58] *** Calibellus___ has joined #opensolaris[21:29:58] *** Calibellus__ has quit IRC[21:31:14] <crazed> do i need to configure anything to use clzonecluster?[21:31:46] *** ozux has joined #opensolaris[21:33:56] *** CNLiberal has joined #opensolaris[21:33:57] *** kokotier has joined #opensolaris[21:36:26] <tsoome> what you mean?[21:36:46] *** luc^ has joined #opensolaris[21:36:49] <tsoome> you need to have local zones up and base cluster obviously[21:39:34] *** Calibellus___ has quit IRC[21:41:13] <TomJ> SXCE b99 - I did zfs snapshot -r data@whatever . The snapshot does not appear in zfs list, however if I try it again it says 'dataset already exists' and lookign at space usage, it looks like that the snapshots are definitely in effect and working[21:41:34] *** twisti has quit IRC[21:42:30] <TomJ> you can see the issue here: http://pastebin.com/9kXtqNJT[21:42:37] *** gswain has joined #opensolaris[21:43:13] *** Mdx4 has quit IRC[21:43:23] <TomJ> oh, but it shows up in zfs list -t snapshot[21:43:24] <gswain> OS 2010.04 ?[21:43:37] *** Ditegen has joined #opensolaris[21:43:47] <jamesd2> gswain, not yet... but soon hopefully.[21:44:10] <gswain> well good luck guys :)[21:44:14] <TomJ> I install b134 from the genunix.org ISO - when 2010.4 lands I will be able to upgrade seamlessly with the BE stuff, right?[21:44:18] <TomJ> *installed[21:45:59] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris[21:46:24] <tsoome> yes, same way as you did switch to /dev /if you have done that/[21:46:39] *** PhlowX has quit IRC[21:48:23] *** hunter has quit IRC[21:49:15] <crazed> tsoome: is there a package i just download to setup the base cluster? that's where i'm stuck[21:49:21] <crazed> i see plenty of info for clzonecluster[21:52:52] <tsoome> isnt it in extras repo=[21:52:53] <tsoome> ?[21:53:02] <tsoome> https://pkg.sun.com/opensolaris/extra/[21:53:09] <crazed> what's it called[21:54:02] <tsoome> openha something?[21:54:20] *** CodeWar has left #opensolaris[21:55:19] <crazed> ok so openha is what i need to setup first[21:55:20] <crazed> wasn't sure[21:55:28] <tsoome> yes[21:55:58] <tsoome> base cluster, then zonecluster is sort of virtual cluster inside it, sort of like zone is virtual os inside solaris[21:56:14] <crazed> yeah i read the solaris pdf on zone clusters[21:56:24] <crazed> and want to try setting it up in a virtualized evironment[21:56:54] <crazed> seems pretty cool[21:57:10] <tsoome> it is pretty nice.[21:57:45] <tsoome> that is actually best about it, you can delegate local zone admin to manage that virtual cluster.[21:58:15] *** Kedare has quit IRC[21:58:15] *** asdtemp has quit IRC[21:58:20] <crazed> that is useful but probably not in the case that i will be using it in[21:58:34] <crazed> want to cluster oracle rac / app servers on the same hardware[21:59:02] <tsoome> well, ofc the application isolation is main point;)[21:59:11] <crazed> yep haha[21:59:16] *** PhlowX has joined #opensolaris[22:01:19] <tsoome> havent used it in real production, was quite near, but then it appeared we had to set DG broaker up as well, and DG broaker does not support fail over clusters[22:02:06] <crazed> ah that sucks[22:02:16] <crazed> not sure if it'll go into production here[22:02:20] <tsoome> oracle is really crap:P[22:02:20] <crazed> just something we're looking at[22:03:10] <tsoome> we did end up using normal container agent. not so decent setup, but still "good enough"[22:04:06] *** Mdx4 has quit IRC[22:04:31] *** dalibor has quit IRC[22:04:35] *** luc^ has quit IRC[22:07:27] *** Odin- has joined #opensolaris[22:07:52] <jbit> argh, sound seems to be broken in 134 :([22:08:02] *** hsp has joined #opensolaris[22:08:33] *** moldo has joined #opensolaris[22:08:58] <moldo> hi, ist there a flashplugion availablke for firefox?[22:09:22] <gtirloni> yes[22:09:52] <moldo> as package? i cant get the version work from adobe[22:10:13] <gtirloni> pkg install medialib[22:10:15] <gtirloni> and try again[22:10:44] <sstallion_work> isn't there a package in the extra repo?[22:11:01] *** dalibor has joined #opensolaris[22:11:04] <gtirloni> yes[22:11:09] <moldo> tnx ill tray again[22:16:58] *** doug_ndndn has quit IRC[22:20:11] *** knight_ has quit IRC[22:21:32] *** knight_ has joined #opensolaris[22:23:07] *** knight_ has quit IRC[22:24:03] *** Mick27 has joined #opensolaris[22:24:25] *** moldo has quit IRC[22:25:08] *** agrajag has quit IRC[22:26:40] *** mroconnor has quit IRC[22:26:56] *** longcat has quit IRC[22:27:38] *** TommyTheKid has joined #opensolaris[22:27:43] *** agrajag has joined #opensolaris[22:30:59] <jbit> hrm, maybe it's not broken in 134[22:31:13] <jbit> i just booted onto a linux flash image and doesn't work there either[22:31:22] <jbit> so maybe my sound card has decided to die on me[22:31:53] *** doug_ndndn has joined #opensolaris[22:32:19] *** darrenb has quit IRC[22:32:43] <alanc> leave headphones plugged in somewhere?[22:33:49] *** darrenb has joined #opensolaris[22:34:17] *** fastsolars has joined #opensolaris[22:35:10] *** terrygardner_ has joined #opensolaris[22:36:07] *** sponix has joined #opensolaris[22:36:43] <jbit> nope[22:37:04] <jbit> well that sucks[22:37:11] * jbit goes to look for an old pci sound card[22:37:23] *** terrygardner has quit IRC[22:38:28] *** pjfloyd has joined #opensolaris[22:38:44] <fastsolars> hey is there a recommended soundcard for opensolaris[22:39:07] <jbit> audiohd seems to be the primary driver in boomer?[22:39:32] <Spencer_tt> smrt: explain jeos[22:39:32] <smrt> JeOS is focused on delivering examples of heavily reduced, text-based, headless server-oriented forms of the Sun-managed OpenSolaris distribution such that developers and administrators can more easily realize application-tailored installations of OpenSolaris in virtual appliance, cloud and bare metal environments. http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+jeos/WebHome[22:39:45] *** terrygardner_ has quit IRC[22:40:17] *** ganbold has quit IRC[22:42:01] *** jamesd2 has quit IRC[22:42:19] *** jamesd2 has joined #opensolaris[22:42:44] *** korr has joined #opensolaris[22:43:11] <korr> hi, is there a way to find out where a package is installed?[22:45:55] *** Dagobert has quit IRC[22:46:10] *** CNLiberal has left #opensolaris[22:47:08] *** fastsolars has left #opensolaris[22:47:25] *** ewdafa has joined #opensolaris[22:47:43] <korr> why doesnt pkginfo list the same infos as the gui manager?[22:50:03] <Auralis> because pkginfo is for old sysv style pkgs, the gui manager is for ips pkgs, as is pkg[22:51:35] *** Mdx4 has joined #opensolaris[22:51:46] <korr> is ther a commandline interface foe ips?[22:52:00] <trygvis> "pkg"[22:53:21] *** Aria has joined #opensolaris[22:53:57] *** pjfloyd has quit IRC[22:54:48] <tomww> korr: the IPS packages most times deliver only the info file used by pkginfo from the old days with the SVR4 package format[22:56:26] <korr> hm, i tried pkginfo -l sunwfirefox that gave some infos about the installed package, but not as much as the gui[22:56:31] *** robo has quit IRC[22:56:46] <korr> pkg info sunwfirefox sais noting installed..[22:56:56] *** radsy has joined #opensolaris[22:57:07] *** m0wfo has joined #opensolaris[22:57:47] *** ThePickle has quit IRC[23:00:24] *** kevku has quit IRC[23:03:03] *** Beket has quit IRC[23:08:32] *** niq has quit IRC[23:10:11] *** _madmax_ has joined #opensolaris[23:10:59] *** korr has quit IRC[23:11:58] *** nachox has quit IRC[23:12:15] *** davenz has joined #opensolaris[23:12:54] *** q5sys has quit IRC[23:17:02] *** hunter has joined #opensolaris[23:18:10] *** Mousk4r1 has quit IRC[23:19:22] <zedrich> hrm[23:19:30] <zedrich> what are the events that lead to a zpool degredation?[23:19:37] <zedrich> i know usually losing a drive..[23:19:45] <zedrich> but in this case there is only 1[23:19:53] <tsoome> ?[23:20:05] <tsoome> the checksum errors as well[23:20:12] <zedrich> ah[23:20:19] <zedrich> any way to resilver / correct it?[23:20:42] <zedrich> i do find that all a tad weird though... its inside a vbox VM heh[23:20:42] <tsoome> in case you have just 1 drive and copies is 0, you dont have data to resilver it[23:20:54] <tsoome> no redundancy.[23:21:03] *** hsp has quit IRC[23:21:04] <zedrich> well i could add one well nuff[23:21:25] <zedrich> but since its a VM anywya trying to limit disk read/writes[23:21:25] *** kokotier has quit IRC[23:21:34] <tsoome> doesnt matter where it is, it can be bitrot if no IO errors, and the data got changed on platter...[23:21:54] <tsoome> but zpool status -v should tell you exactly[23:22:00] <zedrich> ok checking now thanks[23:22:11] <tsoome> and hope you have backkup....[23:22:16] <tsoome> backup*[23:22:24] <zedrich> very odd thats for sure[23:22:34] <zedrich> but this new machine of mine has seemed a bit glitchy too[23:23:08] <tsoome> check cables etc...[23:23:42] <zedrich> well just a newly assembled workstation.. might have memory problems that Ive yet uncovered[23:23:46] <zedrich> memtest checks out fine..[23:23:54] <zedrich> dont know how else to assess it all though[23:24:40] <crazed> can you install Cluster 3.2 on opensolaris?[23:25:05] <zedrich> i issued a scrub as well[23:25:09] <zedrich> cant hurt.. or can it?! haha[23:29:22] <tsoome> crazed: no idea, you cant get openha?[23:29:44] <crazed> guy in #ohac said to try cluster 3.2[23:29:46] <crazed> meh[23:30:14] <tsoome> you can always try. create new be and install it[23:30:15] *** l0nd has joined #opensolaris[23:30:20] <zedrich> is raid 3 a disk + parity drive? I think i want that[23:30:41] <tsoome> man zpool[23:30:43] <zedrich> guess a parity drive is ... a mirror haha[23:30:53] <zedrich> if its a single drive.[23:31:02] <tsoome> zfs does not do raid3[23:32:08] <zedrich> ever seen 40 chksum errors?[23:32:10] <zedrich> seems like a lot[23:32:47] <tsoome> huh something is quite bad there[23:33:24] *** fleyta has joined #opensolaris[23:34:05] *** gm152 has joined #opensolaris[23:35:28] *** Thrae has quit IRC[23:35:47] *** twilling has joined #opensolaris[23:37:44] <deet> does osol support hot-pluggable RAM?[23:37:46] *** _zenbalrog has joined #opensolaris[23:37:53] <deet> i know it's available in solaris on some systems[23:39:02] *** _zenbalrog has left #opensolaris[23:42:19] *** Spencer_tt has quit IRC[23:42:44] *** Spencer_tt has joined #opensolaris[23:43:08] *** g4lt-mordant has quit IRC[23:43:39] *** g4lt-mordant has joined #opensolaris[23:44:04] *** wrapster has quit IRC[23:47:03] <CosmicDJ> deet: http://milek.blogspot.com/2010/03/cpumem-hotplug-on-x86-in-open-solaris.html[23:47:41] *** pogs has quit IRC[23:47:46] <deet> wow, just the other day[23:48:19] *** sHellUx has quit IRC[23:52:10] *** m4rku5 has quit IRC[23:55:11] <fleyta> Is today a holiday in America?[23:56:18] <CIA-21> Ali Bahrami <Ali.Bahrami at Sun dot COM>: 6938111 nm `No symbol table data' message goes to stdout[23:56:20] <CIA-21> Mark Shellenbaum <Mark.Shellenbaum at Sun dot COM>: 6938757 SMB and NFS referrals not working correctly, 6939680 zfs_sa_upgrade can leak slink pointer, 6939859 zfs maps first SID incorrectly when no fuid table exists[23:57:04] <oni-work> fleyta: if so, noone told me[23:57:07] <CosmicDJ> opensolaris 2010.03 out wtf[23:57:19] *** dalibor has quit IRC[23:58:19] <fleyta> CosmicDJ: The answer is only available to paying Oracle stock holders![23:58:32] <CosmicDJ> downloading right now[23:58:44] <fleyta> Whut?[23:58:50] <fleyta> CosmicDJ: Where?[23:58:57] <CosmicDJ> ah I love april the first :)[23:59:00] *** xecuter has joined #opensolaris[23:59:04] <xecuter> hiii