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[00:15:02] <MrStamp> where do the x server settings get saved? I don't see xorg.conf anywhere

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[00:16:49] <bda> /etc/X11/.xorg.conf? Or it's genreated on the fly?

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[00:16:54] * bda doesn't remember.

[00:17:31] <nicoatsun> Xorg discovers everything on startup, unless xorg.conf is there

[00:17:41] <nicoatsun> and it does not write xorg.conf

[00:18:06] <nicoatsun> recently Xorg gained the ability to set only some things in xorg.conf, IIRC

[00:18:07] <MrStamp> In that case, does anyone know a way to turn the caps lock into a control key?

[00:18:13] <nicoatsun> but I don't recall the details

[00:18:18] <nicoatsun> xmodmap!

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[00:18:21] <nicoatsun> well

[00:18:27] <dsch04> evening all

[00:18:33] <MrStamp> I can do it with setxkbmap but it doesn't remain after rebooting

[00:19:01] <nicoatsun> I'm thinking there should be a GNOME tool for this somewhere

[00:19:05] <dsch04> I'm having fun trying to get my opensolaris box to boot

[00:19:30] <MrStamp> the gconf-editor has the option when I ran it on Ubuntu but it's not there on my opensolaris box

[00:19:50] <nicoatsun> mrstamp: but I can't find on

[00:19:52] <nicoatsun> e

[00:19:55] <dsch04> I've disabled the graphic boot and booted with -v

[00:20:08] <dsch04> The last thing I see is:

[00:20:11] <MrStamp> I thought it might work to manually copy over the .gconf tree but it just deletes the files it doesn't like

[00:20:22] <dsch04> lx_systrace0 is /pseudo/lx_systrace@0

[00:20:31] <alanc> you can make an xorg.conf and set it there if you want

[00:20:45] <nicoatsun> gconf-editor has desktop->gnome->keybindings -- dunno if that'd be it

[00:20:48] <alanc> default xorg.conf should be recorded in /var/log/Xorg.0.log

[00:20:59] <dsch04> MrStamp, what's your issue?

[00:21:30] <MrStamp> dsch04: I hate caps lock and I want my control key there

[00:21:46] <dsch04> Ah, I see

[00:21:51] <nicoatsun> dsch04: can you break into mdb?

[00:21:57] <nicoatsun> sadly, I've to go

[00:22:02] <dsch04> nicoatsun, dunno - how do I do that?

[00:22:12] <nicoatsun> boot -kv

[00:22:21] <dsch04> Sure, I can reboot

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[00:23:21] <nicoatsun> on x86 IIRC the key sequence is F1-A or Shift-Pause

[00:23:37] <nicoatsun> see the kmdb(1) and kbd(1) manpages

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[00:23:48] <dsch04> Heh - if I could boot, I would :)

[00:23:53] <nicoatsun> then once in kmdb type $c<RETURN>

[00:23:56] <nicoatsun> see what happens

[00:24:04] <nicoatsun> the manpages are on docs.sun.com

[00:24:14] <nicoatsun> you seem to have some sort of network access :)

[00:24:23] <dsch04> Yeah - laptop

[00:24:30] <dsch04> OK, am in kmdb

[00:24:33] <RandalSchwartz> sounds like the old L1-A from sun boxes

[00:24:35] <dsch04> (F1-a)

[00:24:57] <RandalSchwartz> learned about that in 1988

[00:25:21] <dsch04> You want me to let it run until it hangs, then break into debugger?

[00:25:32] <nicoatsun> yes

[00:25:32] <RandalSchwartz> <= old geezer

[00:25:38] <dsch04> Heh

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[00:25:50] <dsch04> OK, how do I get it to continue running?

[00:25:52] <nicoatsun> hey, SPARC still exists

[00:25:55] <dsch04> 2

[00:26:05] <nicoatsun> ::continue

[00:26:11] <RandalSchwartz> sparc was modern  back then

[00:26:27] <RandalSchwartz> we had sun3, sun386i, and sun4

[00:26:27] <nicoatsun> so is UltraSPARC...

[00:26:40] <dsch04> :c worked

[00:26:46] <RandalSchwartz> sun4 reserved for high performance apps

[00:27:15] <dsch04> OK, stopped at: lx_systrace0 is /pseudo/lx_systrace@0

[00:27:16] <nicoatsun> dsch04: kmdb/mdb is derived from adb; anything that starts with :: is new, otherwise it's all ADB syntax

[00:27:30] <nicoatsun> ("synatx" is generous to ADB though!)

[00:27:38] <nicoatsun> ok, so break into kmdb

[00:27:42] <nicoatsun> $c

[00:27:43] * dsch04 is *db newbie

[00:28:05] <dsch04> OK, screen full of hex

[00:28:06] <jbk> it's one of those things you have to use all the time

[00:28:24] <nicoatsun> ::cpustack [-c cpuid]

[00:28:32] <nicoatsun> no symbol names?

[00:28:36] <nicoatsun> save that stack trace

[00:28:49] <nicoatsun> post it on an appropriate OpenSolaris mailing list

[00:28:57] * nicoatsun has to go home

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[00:29:07] <dsch04> Some usb stuff

[00:29:10] <dsch04> OK, thanks

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[00:29:44] <dsch04> RandalSchwartz, didn't know you were a Sun guy?

[00:30:06] <nicoatsun> but is he the real one?

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[00:30:38] <dsch04> real Sun guy?

[00:30:41] <dsch04> :)

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[00:31:59] <TheK> I don't get how I should do linking of .S files. I always end up with unresolved names. What is the trick? :(

[00:32:32] <TheK> I'm running gmake and gcc4.3.2. Compiling works fine.

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[00:33:42] <TheK> ld: fatal: relocations remain against allocatable but non-writable sections

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[00:34:21] <TheK> + a long list of unresolved items like "dv_super_map_horizontal             0x368     	.libs/vlc_x86.o"

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[00:35:17] <TheK> The names exist in the asm-files. But they are not recognized by the linked obviously. Should I add some special flag?

[00:35:43] <TheK> help. :) I want to go to bed, but i won't have happy dreams unless I figure this out :)

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[00:37:50] <lazlabs> hi to all

[00:38:00] <lazlabs> i've a issue with SSL connections under my OpenSolaris box.

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[00:38:28] <lazlabs> it's so slow, for example in https i get timeout , and over ssh i need to wait about 3min to get shell prompt

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[01:21:26] <dsch04> Hrm, this is rather strange

[01:21:55] <dsch04> Boot seems to have hung, but if I plug in a USB device it is detected and details written to the console

[01:22:09] <dsch04> If I unplug it, it is marked as offline

[01:22:23] <bubbva> dsch04: are you trying to boot from the USB device?

[01:22:28] <dsch04> No

[01:22:42] <dsch04> I'm booting from internal SATA disks

[01:23:03] <dsch04> It seems to be "stuck" on something

[01:23:41] <bubbva> hrm. :(

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[01:25:46] <bubbva> dsch04: I just came across this blog which may help...

[01:25:49] <bubbva> http://blogs.sun.com/dmick/entry/diagnosing_kernel_hangs_panics_with

[01:26:01] <bubbva> it's for diagnosing boot hang/panic

[01:27:10] <dsch04> thanks. reading...

[01:32:12] <darth4> say i created a zpool: zpool create MYSQLPOOL mirror c0t0d0 c0t1d0

[01:32:35] <darth4> if i wanted to create another pool, would i need another hard drive, or could i use c0t0d0

[01:32:44] <flyingparchment> why do you want another pool?

[01:33:08] <darth4> well im reading this mysql documentation with zfs and it says to use a seperate pool for log files, and a sepearate pool for data

[01:33:18] <flyingparchment> what it means is a separate disk

[01:33:24] <flyingparchment> so that writes to the log don't affect the data file

[01:33:28] <dsch04> bubbva, that article helps me display screenfuls of meaningless (to me) information! :)

[01:33:38] <bubbva> dsch04: :-)

[01:33:38] <darth4> so i need another hard drive just for logs?

[01:33:44] <flyingparchment> darth4: no, but it improves performance

[01:33:51] <flyingparchment> darth4: if you only have two disks, just use a different filesystem

[01:34:02] <jmcp_> darth4: what's the url you're reading?

[01:34:06] <flyingparchment> (since you want to set recordsize on the innodb data, but not the logs)

[01:34:18] <bubbva> dsch04: but that data may help someone help you who knows stuff about boot (which is not really me).

[01:34:19] <darth4> http://recordings.dimdim.com/view/dimdim/b4544fb0-605b-102c-9991-003048944478 , around 34:00 in

[01:34:42] <dsch04> I know - I guess I could always take a photo of the screen :)

[01:34:50] <jmcp_> darth4: who presented it?

[01:34:51] <bubbva> :-)

[01:34:52] <darth4> i have a 2 disk rpool, and starting off with a 2 disk zpool, expanding up to 12 tb or more

[01:35:03] <darth4> jmpc; some dude with a heavy british accent

[01:35:25] <darth4> im not sure who it is exactly

[01:35:27] <bubbva> dsch04: I've seen boot hangs twice, personally. One was an out of sync boot-archive and the other was a dead harddrive.

[01:35:56] <dsch04> darth4, Martin Brown

[01:36:11] <dsch04> Well, this system was OK initiallyu

[01:36:35] <dsch04> It seesm to have got a little screwy since some recent updates - not sure whether it was snv 107/8/9 ?

[01:37:32] <dsch04> Heh, he says "zed ef es"

[01:37:48] <dsch04> I've kinda got used to saying "zee ef es"

[01:39:15] <jmcp_> dsch04: ah, so he's speaking English, rather than American :-)

[01:39:40] <dsch04> He has an east country accent, I think

[01:39:57] <gkl> I have a puzzle

[01:40:05] <gkl> maybe its answer is trivial, maybe not

[01:40:15] <gkl> in my hosts file, I have "192.168.2.99 black"

[01:40:22] <gkl> I can ssh to 192.168.2.99, but I cannot ssh to black

[01:40:25] <gkl> however, I can ping black

[01:40:49] <gkl> sshd is definitely running on black

[01:40:50] <dsch04> sshd not running on black, firewall blocking access to sshd on black

[01:41:01] <gkl> I disabled ipf and it's the same

[01:41:02] <flyingparchment> dsch04: read the question again :)

[01:41:04] <gkl> it also happens with NFS

[01:41:25] <gkl> I can mount if I specify 192.168.2.99:/black, but not black:/black

[01:41:43] <dsch04> I typed that before he said ssh was running!

[01:41:46] <gkl> I happened upon this crazy situation when I did an install and selected "non-networked computer" then decided to go ahead and network it

[01:41:50] <flyingparchment> gkl: egrep 'hosts|ipnodes' /etc/nsswitch.conf

[01:41:57] <flyingparchment> dsch04: he said he can ssh to the IP

[01:42:05] <dsch04> Ah

[01:42:05] <flyingparchment> gkl: also, tell us the error messages

[01:42:17] <gkl> it just hangs

[01:42:24] <dsch04> nsswitch issue then :)

[01:43:09] <gkl> let's seeeeee

[01:43:41] <dsch04> what does "host 192.168.2.99" say?

[01:43:47] <dsch04> and "host black"

[01:43:53] <gkl> just a sec

[01:43:57] <gkl> the computer is now not booting up very well

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[01:44:05] <dsch04> Hey, I've got one of thiose!

[01:44:05] <flyingparchment> note that 'host' doesn't consult /etc/hosts

[01:44:11] <flyingparchment> use 'getent hosts' if you need that

[01:44:12] * dsch04 knows

[01:44:25] <gkl> okay

[01:45:19] <gkl> hosts:      files dns mdns

[01:45:23] <gkl> ipnodes: files dns # Added by DHCP

[01:45:28] <gkl> I did check nsswitch.conf

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[01:45:33] <gkl> does that look like it should?

[01:45:42] <gkl> I reckoned it did

[01:45:56] <teknoprep> anyone have a recomendation for a sata controller... either PCI or PCI-x 64bit for 8 - 16 HDD

[01:45:57] <gkl> I also checked to see what services may be disabled by comparing svcs -a to a working box I have

[01:45:59] <flyingparchment> gkl: getent hosts black; ssh -vvv black

[01:46:02] <teknoprep> if its 8 i will just buy 2

[01:46:10] <dsch04> Marvell

[01:46:18] <dsch04> Mv8?

[01:46:19] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8

[01:46:23] <dsch04> That's the one

[01:46:29] <gkl> ahhh

[01:46:31] <dsch04> Got two

[01:46:39] <gkl> well

[01:46:51] <gkl> debug1: Reading configuration data /etc/ssh/ssh_config

[01:46:51] <gkl> debug1: Rhosts Authentication disabled, originating port will not be trusted.

[01:46:53] <jmcp_> gkl: do you have an /etc/resolv.conf, with valid contents?

[01:46:55] <gkl> debug1: ssh_connect: needpriv 0

[01:46:57] <gkl> debug1: Connecting to black [67.63.55.3] port 22.

[01:46:58] <teknoprep> is it that good ?

[01:47:04] <teknoprep> flyingparchment, is it that good ?

[01:47:10] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: sun uses the same controller in their own systems

[01:47:10] <gkl> jmcp_: yes I do

[01:47:16] <dsch04> They're well supported in Solaris

[01:47:18] <gkl> it has my two dns servers in it

[01:47:18] <teknoprep> oh cool

[01:47:22] <dsch04> cheap and fast

[01:47:28] <dsch04> Used in the "thumper"

[01:47:38] <flyingparchment> of course, they ditched it in the thor

[01:47:50] <flyingparchment> but most people who ask for PCI SATA cards don't like being told to buy SAS cards ;)

[01:47:51] <gkl> hrm, 'host black' reveals this: black has address 67.63.55.3

[01:48:01] <gkl> 67.63.55.3 is definitely not my ip address

[01:48:03] <gkl> that's probably why

[01:48:04] <flyingparchment> gkl: host ignores files, so that's not unexpected

[01:48:14] <gkl> oh

[01:48:14] <flyingparchment> gkl: the question would be why ssh does too

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[01:48:31] <jmcp_> gkl: perhaps your client system is using the dns server in your dsl modem/router ?

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[01:48:47] <gkl> that could be

[01:48:48] <dsch04> Does the network come up fairly early on an OpenSolaris boot?

[01:49:01] <gkl> resolv.conf has a bogus domain (which it must have gotten from my router)

[01:49:16] <flyingparchment> dsch04: before single user mode

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[01:51:06] <dsch04> Hrm

[01:51:11] <gkl> okay, so for whatever reason my nsswitch.conf is not being obeyed

[01:51:17] <gkl> is there a service I must enable to have it do so?

[01:51:24] <flyingparchment> no

[01:52:34] <gkl> now this is interesting

[01:52:42] <dsch04> Can you see any boot logs from tkmdb?

[01:52:47] <dsch04> *kmdb

[01:52:51] <gkl> the same thing is happening now on this computer (black)

[01:52:55] <teknoprep> wow i just built a storage array with 16x 250GB SATA2 HDD for 1,100$

[01:53:01] <flyingparchment> dsch04: you can see the kernel message buffer. ::dmesg or something

[01:53:58] <jamesd_> teknoprep: for pure storage one built with 1.5TB drives probably hold more and is about the same price and pays for any extra in power savings

[01:54:25] <flyingparchment> i thought the most cost effective ($/GB) was 500GB at the moment

[01:54:39] <teknoprep> jamesd_, i need the IOPS of many drives

[01:54:44] <jamesd_> i see 1TB drives for $80 currently

[01:54:46] <jmcp_> gkl: is dns/client running?

[01:55:04] <jamesd_> teknoprep: then get a fast flash drive.. much more cost effective.

[01:55:06] <teknoprep> flyingparchment, i get HP refurb 250GB HDD for $25/drive

[01:55:10] <gkl> client is running, server is not

[01:55:23] <teknoprep> jamesd_, its for vmware ..... shhh

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[01:56:08] <jamesd_> the flash drive would be for a logzilla/readzilla  big speed increase...

[01:56:14] <teknoprep> jamesd_, i am not going to put a SAN storage system in for VMware ESXi on 3 1.5TB drives or a few Fast Flash Drives

[01:58:22] <jamesd_> writes are slow on the raidz2 storage... that is where the flash makes a big impact

[01:58:34] <teknoprep> writes are not slow on raidz2

[01:58:45] <CIA-33> Siddheshwar Mahesh <Siddheshwar.Mahesh at Sun dot COM>: 6788618 nfs mounts fail due to rcpib running on server's Infiniband network

[01:58:46] <CIA-33> Bill Holler <Bill.Holler at Sun dot COM>: 6818652 cpu_acpi_cache_cst panics with bad _CST objects on Tecra M9 and M10

[01:58:49] <teknoprep> writes are slow on RAID 5 and 6

[01:58:57] <teknoprep> writes are very fast on RAIDz2

[01:59:01] <jamesd_> compared to a mirrored pool it is...

[01:59:15] <teknoprep> i did some benchmarks and RAID10 vs RAIDz2 is the same

[01:59:19] <teknoprep> the IOPS were the same too

[01:59:45] <teknoprep> and that was over a 10 HDD raidz2 vs 10 HDD RAID10 both using the same system

[01:59:51] <teknoprep> both using software zfs raid configs

[02:00:53] <teknoprep> anyway.. i was under the impression the whole idea behind RAIDz was to fix RAID5 issues with speed

[02:01:13] <teknoprep> WAFL / OnTap does pretty much the same thing... and its VERY fast from NetApp

[02:01:22] <flyingparchment> no

[02:01:29] <teknoprep> no what?

[02:01:30] <flyingparchment> it fixes the raid5 write hole, which prevents data loss, but doesn't affect speed

[02:01:31] <RandalSchwartz> raidz1 means i could lose 1 drive and still be ok?

[02:01:38] <flyingparchment> RandalSchwartz: correct

[02:01:44] <RandalSchwartz> or does that require mirror?

[02:01:48] <jamesd_> yes raidz fixes some of the issues with raid5/6, but there are still speed penalities

[02:01:51] <teknoprep> RandalSchwartz, you are fine

[02:01:52] <jamesd_> RandalSchwartz: yes.

[02:01:58] <teknoprep> RandalSchwartz, one hard dirve dies.. you still have data

[02:02:07] <flyingparchment> RandalSchwartz: mirror is for two disks, raidz is for 3 or more

[02:02:08] <RandalSchwartz> so why have mirror instead of raidz?

[02:02:15] <RandalSchwartz> oh

[02:02:20] <flyingparchment> RandalSchwartz: if have >2 disks, you do a mirror+stripe, not a mirror

[02:02:30] <flyingparchment> that mirrors over each pair of disks, then stripes over those mirrors

[02:02:42] <RandalSchwartz> with just 2, i cant do raidz?

[02:02:48] <flyingparchment> it's slightly more reliable than raidz, because in theory, you can lose up to 50% of disks without data loss

[02:02:54] <flyingparchment> (but the more disks you lose, the more likely data loss is)

[02:03:00] <jamesd_> mirror is faster for a mixed workload, raidz is faster for streaming data, and writes can be a bit slower in many workloads

[02:03:02] <teknoprep> flyingparchment, but not really.. if you loose the wrong 2 disks its gone

[02:03:07] <flyingparchment> RandalSchwartz: with 2 disks, there is absolutely no reason to use raidz.  so, it's impossible

[02:03:09] <teknoprep> flyingparchment, so its more of a luck base

[02:03:16] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: right, i didn't mean you'd actually rely on it

[02:03:25] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: but you often hear stories of how 3 disks in a raid failed all at once..

[02:03:41] <teknoprep> flyingparchment, i have heard of it.. but its never happened to me

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[02:03:47] <RandalSchwartz> i like mirror, but dislike the physical equal size partioning

[02:03:56] <RandalSchwartz> that feels odd given pools

[02:03:57] * dsch04 has had three disks fail in a raidz2

[02:03:59] <flyingparchment> RandalSchwartz: that is a requirement of raidz as well

[02:04:30] <flyingparchment> RandalSchwartz: if you have a 4GB disk and a 9GB disk, you can't store 9GB of data in a mirror -- where will the data go that doesn't fit on the 4GB disk?

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[02:04:53] <teknoprep> you can only mirror your largest partition

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[02:05:03] <RandalSchwartz> smallest

[02:05:07] <teknoprep> yeah

[02:05:09] <teknoprep> lol

[02:05:30] <jamesd_> RandalSchwartz: you could use raid0 plus enable copies=X  for important data in those cases, not perfect but better than nothing

[02:05:34] <teknoprep> i dunno tho.. i have found that using lzjb compression with RAIDz2 is extremly fast

[02:05:54] <teknoprep> and with the way ZFS works... i see no increase in speed with RAID-10 over RAIDz2

[02:05:54] <RandalSchwartz> well if i have 1 + 7g physical, i can't mirror them to 4 + 4 physical

[02:06:06] <RandalSchwartz> thats the odd thing

[02:06:09] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: the iops of a raidz stripe is limited to a single disk, because it has to send every write to every disk.  (you can mitigate that by using several stripes, which is a good idea anyway, of course)

[02:06:10] <teknoprep> could someone show me some reports? if it is faster

[02:06:16] <flyingparchment> RandalSchwartz: uhhh

[02:06:22] <RandalSchwartz> for the most part zfs lets me ignore phys

[02:06:37] <flyingparchment> RandalSchwartz: if you put 3GB of data on the 7GB disk, then you mirror it onto the *same* disk, what happens when that disk fails?

[02:06:41] <jamesd_> teknoprep: most likely you are seeing zfs' readahead and caching ability rather than actual disk performance in your tests.

[02:07:00] <RandalSchwartz> i'm talking about 4 disks

[02:07:07] <RandalSchwartz> nothing same

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[02:07:15] <teknoprep> well i will have a 14HDD raid10

[02:07:18] <teknoprep> i will test it out

[02:07:35] <flyingparchment> RandalSchwartz: you said two disks, 1GB and 7GB, no?

[02:07:42] <RandalSchwartz> yes

[02:07:49] <RandalSchwartz> and two more 4 + 4

[02:08:11] <dsch04> Well, I think I'll leave my system "bootiing" overnight to see if it's just some issue that takes a long time to resolve

[02:08:14] <teknoprep> flyingparchment, why would every right have to be sent to every disk in a raidz ?

[02:08:18] <teknoprep> flyingparchment, that makes no sense

[02:08:31] <teknoprep> flyingparchment, s/right/write

[02:08:42] <dsch04> teknoprep, do you understand how raid works?

[02:08:48] <teknoprep> dsch04, yes

[02:09:01] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: because that's how it worked.. each write creates a new stripe, which is written across every disk (N-1 blocks + 1 parity block)

[02:09:12] <jamesd_> every write has to be sent to at least 2 disks.. one disk data one for parity, but most large writes are sent to all disks.

[02:09:18] <dsch04> So you must know that with raid5/raidz, all disks must be involved

[02:09:21] <gkl> (re: my problem) apparently nscd can goof up hostnames...  does anyone know anything about that?

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[02:10:12] <dsch04> teknoprep, What part of that makes no sense?

[02:10:37] <teknoprep> the block i thought was striped across all disks(-1) .. the one being the parity disk for that block write

[02:10:43] <ranks> gkl: svcadm disable name-service-cache

[02:10:49] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: yes.. and to stripe it across all disks, it has to write to all disks

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[02:10:53] <ranks> gkl: nscd can cache a long time

[02:11:01] <teknoprep> holy shit that sucks

[02:11:02] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: therefore every write requires an io to every disk.  therefore your iops is limited to the iops of a single drive

[02:11:14] <teknoprep> now i get it

[02:11:18] <teknoprep> holy shit that does suck

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[02:11:27] <flyingparchment> this is why *all* hardware raid5 arrays use a battery

[02:11:46] <flyingparchment> the nvram brings performance back to a reasonable level (as well as avoiding the write hole to some extent)

[02:11:46] <teknoprep> so how does raid10 defeat this ?

[02:11:55] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: with raid10, each write only goes to 2 disks

[02:12:01] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: so you can send other writes to the other disks at the same time

[02:12:08] <jamesd_> flyingparchment: a write of 512byes to a raidz pool only has to write to 2x disks, its one of raidz improvements, but most writes are larger.

[02:12:24] <teknoprep> hmm

[02:12:40] <flyingparchment> btw, you can do the same as the hardware nvram by adding some nvram to your zfs pool, and using a separate zil

[02:12:45] <teknoprep> so you can dump multiple blocks to multiple stipes in a raid 10 at the same time ?

[02:12:55] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: yes

[02:12:58] <teknoprep> oh wow

[02:13:07] <teknoprep> i don't know why i never kne wthat before

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[02:13:25] <teknoprep> but i was always a fan of RAID-10 until i got into WAFL on the ontap systems

[02:13:33] <flyingparchment> netapp = nvram = runs fast

[02:13:33] <teknoprep> which used to use raid-4 and now RAID-6

[02:14:08] <flyingparchment> zfs is better than software raid5 since it can enable the disk write cache, and only fsync when necessary

[02:14:18] <jamesd_> and zfs + logging device equals incredibly fast writes.. 1000's of IOPS per second...

[02:14:29] <teknoprep> logging device /

[02:14:30] <teknoprep> ?

[02:14:46] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: zfs can put the "journal" (zil, zfs intent log) on a separate device

[02:14:49] <jamesd_> loging device,  either a write tuned flash drive.. or read tuned flash drive.

[02:14:59] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: if that separate device is an nvram, writes to it are very fast

[02:15:13] <flyingparchment> which means your fsync() return immediately, and the data is written to the disks later -> iops goes up

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[02:15:31] <teknoprep> so how would i set something like that up?

[02:15:31] <flyingparchment> (flash helps too, but it's not as fast as nvram... unless it's one of the ones with an nvram battery builtin)

[02:15:34] <teknoprep> on my own box ?

[02:15:34] <jbk> though with ssd, size(zil) >>>> size(nvram)

[02:15:44] <jbk> very easy to overrun nvram

[02:16:22] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: you can buy cards with SDRAM slots, a battery and an SATA connector.  just connect it to your SATA card and it appears as a disk

[02:16:31] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: then tell zfs to put the zil on that when creating the pool

[02:16:47] <teknoprep> could you point me to something that i would buy.. i am going to bjuy it and play around

[02:17:03] <jamesd_> and in cases of bad disasters most nvrams are only on powerfor 3 days... then the data is gone and your filesystem is a nightmare.. happened in 9/11 NYC was without power for a week.. major pain

[02:17:24] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Storage/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2180

[02:17:32] <jamesd_> http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Storage/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2180

[02:17:35] <jamesd_> oops

[02:17:45] <gkl> no dice on disabled nscd with regards to my mysterious problem

[02:18:14] <flyingparchment> that looks like SATA1, though.. an SATA II one would probably be better

[02:18:43] <teknoprep> hmm

[02:18:49] <teknoprep> that wil show up as a disk ?

[02:18:51] <teknoprep> that is kick ass

[02:18:52] <flyingparchment> yes

[02:19:00] <flyingparchment> you can get ones that need special drivers and use a PCI slot

[02:19:01] <jamesd_> teknoprep: also while testing zfs  checkout fsstab zfs   to see how the filesystems are performing

[02:19:07] <flyingparchment> which are probably faster, but also more of a pain to manage

[02:20:04] <ranks> gkl: is /etc/hosts still a symlink to /etc/inet/hosts ?

[02:20:41] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: also, if you need read iops, consider buying an SSD or two and putting the read cache (l2arc) on them

[02:20:52] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: it augments the RAM cache with the ssds, which are much faster at seeking than disks

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[02:23:54] <gkl> uhh

[02:23:56] <gkl> probably not

[02:24:07] <gkl> ranks: that's probably it

[02:24:44] <gkl> I never knew /etc/hosts was a symlink

[02:24:54] <flyingparchment> it wasn't until solaris 10 (update 1?)

[02:25:03] <flyingparchment> no, i lie

[02:25:09] <flyingparchment> (i'm talking about ipnodes, which is also a symlink, but different)

[02:25:13] <ranks> gkl:is it working now ?

[02:25:19] <jbk> it's been that way since i think solaris 2.x came out

[02:25:20] <gkl> let me check

[02:25:28] <jbk> taken from sysv

[02:25:37] <teknoprep> flyingparchment, what is a good size for the ZIL if i put it on a RAMDISK ?

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[02:26:13] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: i would say 512MB or 1GB is enough

[02:26:16] <gkl> ranks: that fixed it

[02:26:18] <gkl> you are brilliant

[02:26:30] <gkl> that's kind of a quirky thing

[02:26:42] <Niosop> Anyone gotten the Informix client SDK to install on Solaris/OpenSolaris?

[02:26:42] <flyingparchment> ... how did you manage to break /etc/hosts like that?

[02:26:54] <gkl> oh, I've been breaking all sorts of things on this box

[02:27:25] <gkl> I was not being very careful

[02:28:01] <ranks> ranksj@compaq:/etc$ ls -l | grep inet

[02:28:01] <ranks> lrwxrwxrwx   1 root     root          12 Dec 20 12:03 hosts -> ./inet/hosts

[02:28:01] <ranks> drwxr-xr-x   5 root     sys           22 Mar 20 18:42 inet

[02:28:01] <ranks> lrwxrwxrwx   1 root     root          17 Dec 20 12:03 inetd.conf -> ./inet/inetd.conf

[02:28:01] <ranks> lrwxrwxrwx   1 root     root          15 Dec 20 12:03 netmasks -> ./inet/netmasks

[02:28:02] <ranks> lrwxrwxrwx   1 root     root          15 Dec 20 12:03 networks -> ./inet/networks

[02:28:04] <ranks> lrwxrwxrwx   1 root     root          16 Dec 20 12:03 protocols -> ./inet/protocols

[02:28:06] <ranks> lrwxrwxrwx   1 root     root          15 Dec 20 12:03 services -> ./inet/services

[02:28:08] <ranks> lrwxrwxrwx   1 root     root          16 Dec 20 12:03 sock2path -> ./inet/sock2path

[02:28:19] <ranks> is what is in my /etc dir with links to inet.  Check them all

[02:28:19] <gkl> it's all in /etc/inet, huh?

[02:28:19] <teknoprep> lol

[02:28:31] <jmcp_> gkl: yep

[02:28:35] <gkl> hosts was the only thing not broken

[02:28:37] <gkl> er

[02:28:39] <gkl> the only thing broken

[02:28:46] <gkl> everything else is fine (because I don't usually touch them)

[02:29:09] <gkl> you guys fix all my problems

[02:29:12] <gkl> thanks so much

[02:29:17] <ranks> gkl: np

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[02:32:10] <ranks> flyingparchment: I don't know how gkl broke his, but it happened to me a few years ago writing a script to update the host files.  The script created a temp file, removed hosts, then moved temp file to hosts.  Little did I know what I was doing then ;)

[02:33:44] <gkl> so you've run into this before, ranks?

[02:34:20] <ranks> gkl: yes, I was trying to add a bunch of stuff to hosts in a jumpstart finish script.

[02:34:33] <gkl> well I don't feel so bad then

[02:34:48] <gkl> maybe in a few years someone will do the same thing and I'll have just the answer

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[02:35:15] <ranks> gkl: I had all but forgotten about it, but after all the other things you tried, I thought, hey maybe that's it

[02:36:31] <ranks> gkl: the problem, as you found out is that some stuff works, some stuff doesn't.  Hard to find what's really wrong.

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[02:48:03] <teknoprep> putting the ZIL on a ramdisk speeds things up alot ?

[02:48:48] <flyingparchment> depends on the workload

[02:49:04] <flyingparchment> for streaming writes, it won't help much.  for iops-sensitive workloads, it makes a massive difference

[02:49:25] <teknoprep> ahh so for vmware it would be great

[02:49:38] <flyingparchment> depends what workloads you're running in vmware

[02:49:54] <flyingparchment> vmware itself doesn't do much (any) disk access

[02:50:22] <teknoprep> well when you run say 40-50 VM's per ESX box

[02:50:29] <teknoprep> it tends to be IOP intensive

[02:50:44] <teknoprep> i usually use NetApp stuff for these.. but i am looking into what ZFS can do

[02:52:15] <Niosop> if it's a pretty high random IO read load, any of the new storage servers w/ SSD L2ARC would do pretty good.  http://blogs.sun.com/brendan/entry/l2arc_screenshots

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[02:53:19] <jbk> at a very basic level, the sun stuff gives you bigger read and write caches than netapp

[02:53:44] <jmcp_> muttermuttermutter I think it's cheaper, too muttermuttermutter

[02:54:08] <jbk> plus all the other goodies (no arbitrary snapshot or volume limits, no nickel & dimeing, and infinitely more useful performance data)

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[02:55:18] <jbk> it seems fairly easy to overrun the nvram (causing back to back consistency points) on netapps

[02:55:25] <jbk> due to the small sizes

[02:55:48] <nachox> evening

[02:56:06] <jbk> IIRC, the nvram on the netapps are all < 1gb

[02:56:22] <jbk> hi nachox

[02:58:39] <CIA-33> Bill Holler <Bill.Holler at Sun dot COM>: 6819156 cpu_acpi_free_cstate_data can free the wrong size

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[03:07:34] <teknoprep> whats up with zil_disable ?

[03:08:17] <e^ipi> disables the zil, one might assume

[03:08:25] <nachox> :)

[03:08:29] <teknoprep> i do understand this

[03:08:34] <teknoprep> but why would it make the system faster?

[03:08:41] <teknoprep> but less stable

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[03:08:48] <nachox> read what zil does

[03:08:56] <teknoprep> its the log

[03:09:07] <e^ipi> correct

[03:09:42] <e^ipi> if you don't need to ensure your data is sane and correct despite power outage, you can disable it

[03:09:51] <nachox> teknoprep, http://www.solarisinternals.com/wiki/index.php/ZFS_Evil_Tuning_Guide#Disabling_the_ZIL_.28Don.27t.29

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[03:15:01] <teknoprep> hmm

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[03:16:48] <teknoprep> hey whats the equivalient of TOP on solaris

[03:17:00] <jbk> prsta

[03:17:00] <teknoprep> i usually run top on linux for an active view of the system inside of a console

[03:17:01] <jbk> t

[03:17:15] <Niosop> prstat

[03:17:21] <teknoprep> what about memory ?

[03:17:30] <teknoprep> oh nvm its there

[03:17:37] <Niosop> total memory?  Top is usually kind of off for that anyways.  Use vmstat I'd say

[03:18:57] <nachox> teknoprep, newer opensolaris releases include top, but it a nasty tool, resource hungry too

[03:22:39] <bda> prstat -a is useful. Or prstat -Z if you're using zones.

[03:22:42] <bda> Much better than top. :)

[03:22:47] <bda> (you could also install htop if you want to be ereet)

[03:22:56] <flyingparchment> one of my users like to run htop

[03:23:09] <flyingparchment> on a 3GHz 8-core system, it consistently use 5% or more cpu

[03:23:14] <bda> See? Ereet.

[03:23:19] <teknoprep> iscsitgtd is using 2.5% of the CPu

[03:23:20] <teknoprep> lol

[03:23:27] <teknoprep> everything else is 0.0%

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[03:24:16] <nachox> X too?

[03:24:23] <teknoprep> i don't run X

[03:24:32] <nachox> that explains it :P

[03:24:41] <teknoprep> its just a storage array for VMware boxen

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[03:25:27] <teknoprep> does ether bonds in solaris use 802.3ad ?

[03:25:49] <flyingparchment> yes

[03:25:54] <flyingparchment> unless you use in.mpathd, which is different

[03:26:04] <teknoprep> ok cool

[03:26:15] <flyingparchment> you can also do static trunking

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[03:26:32] <Niosop> will 802.3ad work using 2x crossover cables, or does it need a supporting switch in the mix?

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[03:27:16] <teknoprep> hmm thats a good question

[03:27:31] <flyingparchment> TIAS

[03:27:34] <teknoprep> but who cares.. i just bought a DELL 5224 for 150$

[03:27:37] <flyingparchment> (btw, GE doesn't need xover, it has auto mdix)

[03:28:16] <Niosop> wow, how'd ya pull that off?

[03:28:21] <teknoprep> www.ebay.com

[03:28:24] <teknoprep> they have 1 or 2 more left

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[03:28:59] <Niosop> hmmm, good deal, not a lot of ratings though

[03:29:06] <Niosop> although for 150 it's probably worth the risk

[03:30:57] <teknoprep> agreed

[03:30:58] <teknoprep> also

[03:31:04] <teknoprep> you just get your money back pretty easy on paypal

[03:31:10] <teknoprep> i mean its really easy to get your money back

[03:31:12] <Niosop> nod, just picked one up

[03:31:20] <Niosop> thanks for the heads up

[03:31:23] <teknoprep> np

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[03:32:10] <teknoprep> oh hey niosop

[03:32:14] <teknoprep> that guy isn't sketchy tho

[03:32:20] <teknoprep> we recieved ours today

[03:32:24] <Niosop> nice  :)

[03:32:33] <Niosop> looks like I got the last one, or someone grabbed it right after me

[03:32:45] <teknoprep> damn it lol

[03:32:51] <teknoprep> i was going to buy another one

[03:32:54] <Niosop> lol

[03:33:03] <teknoprep> well i have 2 more comming

[03:33:14] <Niosop> lol, nice

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[03:35:39] <Niosop> hmm, where would 64bit python look for 64 bit libs?

[03:35:46] <flyingparchment> /lib/64, /usr/lib/64

[03:36:03] <flyingparchment> (which is a symlink to either amd64/ or sparcv9/)

[03:36:20] <flyingparchment> or you mean libraries as in python extension (shared objects)?

[03:36:25] <teknoprep> so raid10 is better than raid0+1

[03:36:32] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: yes.  0+1 is less reliable

[03:37:12] <Niosop> yes.  Trying to get InformixDB python lib to work.  Finally got it to build/install (informix only gives 64 bit version of the libs) but now it's dying during import because it can't find a library.

[03:37:22] <teknoprep> what does zpool use when setting up   zfs create blah mirror

[03:37:23] <teknoprep> drive1 drive2 mirror drive3 drive4 mirror dirve5 driver6

[03:37:33] <flyingparchment> Niosop: which library, and where is it?

[03:37:39] <flyingparchment> teknoprep: 10

[03:37:42] <teknoprep> ty

[03:38:13] <Niosop> flyingparchment: libifasf.so, it's in /opt/IBM/informix/lib/esql/libifsql.so but I've symlinked it pretty much everywhere in an attempt to get it found.  Last place to try is /usr/lib/64

[03:38:22] <teknoprep> are reads faster on RAID10 than RAID5? since the blocks are only on 2 HDD in RAID10

[03:38:31] <flyingparchment> Niosop: link the thing that's trying to find it with -R/opt/IBM/informix/lib/esql

[03:38:36] <flyingparchment> that will hardcode the library path

[03:39:03] <Niosop> flyingparchment: ahh, cool, will try that

[03:39:28] <flyingparchment> if it's a python extension, that probably means you need to link the extension's .so like that

[03:40:22] <flyingparchment> only providing 64-bit libraries is pretty bizarre, btw

[03:40:56] <Niosop> hmm, yeah, lemme look harder, maybe I just missed them.  Cause really don't want to use 64 bit because I don't think mod_python is gonna be happy.

[03:41:12] <Niosop> hmm, didn't fail on -R argument but still the same error.

[03:41:17] <Niosop> lemme search for 32 bit

[03:41:21] <flyingparchment> what's the exact error?

[03:42:05] <Niosop> ImportError: ld.so.1: python: fatal: libifasf.so: open failed: No such file or directory

[03:42:30] <Niosop> although, now that I look at it it's looking in /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/informixdb.py instead of the 64bit directory...

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[03:44:25] <Niosop> hmm, guess that's how it likes to roll.

[03:44:58] <jmcp_> Niosop: you can set   LD_DEBUG=files in your env before running the python script, that'll produce *heaps* of output and let you figure out where it's looking for libs

[03:45:13] <Niosop> excellent, that's what I was looking for.

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[03:46:33] <Niosop> doh, it's a different error, first one is gone.  Library names were similar so I didn't notice.

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[03:50:27] <Topdeck> Can you run strace to see where it's looking?

[03:50:40] <Niosop> nice, no more errors on import  :)  No idea if it can connect, but it's better than before.  Still don't think I'm going to be able to use it with mod_python though.  Guess I can use pyro and have a

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[03:50:58] <flyingparchment> mod_python would require 64-bit apache and everything else

[03:51:02] <Niosop> I just symlinked it to /usr/lib/64, that seems to have fixed it

[03:51:04] <flyingparchment> (this is why not providing 32-bit libs sucks)

[03:51:13] <Niosop> yeah, everything about informix sucks

[03:51:30] <jmcp_> Topdeck: as far as I'm aware we don't have strace on OpenSolaris

[03:51:30] <Niosop> it's ok, I can probably build a 64 bit pyro and just have it proxy db requests for me

[03:51:37] <jmcp_> Topdeck: truss, or dtruss

[03:52:30] <Niosop> hmm

[03:52:51] <Niosop> evidently there's an strace now

[03:52:55] <Niosop> wonder when that got put in.

[03:58:35] <CIA-33> Judy Chen <Judy.Chen at Sun dot COM>: PSARC 2009/056 Removal of ISA Pseudo Node, 6813425 Remove /isa pseudo node for x86

[03:59:15] <Niosop> Thanks guys, this will let me get rid of a VirtualBox'd linux web server

[03:59:25] <nachox> isa is dead!! :)

[03:59:41] <Niosop> Lone live ISA!

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[04:07:16] <_Lewellyn> but what about people with PS2? don't the ps/2 ports live under /is?

[04:07:18] <_Lewellyn> isa even

[04:07:37] <flyingparchment> i can only assume they didn't actually remove ISA support

[04:07:52] <flyingparchment> just changed how the device nodes work.. (since a _lot_ of x86 stuff is still connected via isa)

[04:08:37] <flyingparchment> http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=90226&tstart=0

[04:10:06] <_Lewellyn> hm... do that eliminates running on solaris 8 (and maybe 9) era x86 machines

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[04:10:17] <flyingparchment> no, like i said, it doesn't remove ISA support

[04:10:23] <flyingparchment> it just restructures how the OS handles ISA devices

[04:11:19] <_Lewellyn> by placing them under the pci bus

[04:11:35] <_Lewellyn> which wouldn't work in a machine without a pci bus, correct?

[04:11:49] <flyingparchment> only if the isa bus is attached to the PCI bus

[04:12:09] <flyingparchment> btw, how many non-PCI systems do you have with 768MB RAM?

[04:12:15] <_Lewellyn> i don't see that as being specifically the case

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[04:12:20] <_Lewellyn> flyingparchment: 1 :)

[04:12:24] <_Lewellyn> it runs dos

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[04:13:06] <_Lewellyn> the 768mb is mostly for thrills during POST

[04:13:18] <_Lewellyn> since i never use more than about 256mb

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[04:20:06] <alanc> I think the official minimum CPU is around a Pentium I @ 120Mhz, which would still be new enough to have PCI bus

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[04:28:27] <_Lewellyn> alanc: but not guaranteed to have a pci bus :)

[04:28:40] <_Lewellyn> i have a k6-2/333 on an isa-only board

[04:29:18] <_Lewellyn> not that i ever plan on installing opensolaris on that thing, but yeah. :P

[04:29:54] <alanc> I think Xorg dropped ISA bus video card support in 1.5 or 1.6, so you'd be without graphics if you did

[04:35:08] <_Lewellyn> so not even with vesa if i were to try it? :)

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[04:35:27] <flyingparchment> on something that old, you'd probably be running OpenServer anyway...

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[04:35:32] <alanc> dunno if vesa depends on bus support or not

[04:35:35] <tek-ops_> hello all

[04:35:36] <flyingparchment> that OS was designed for crappy x86 systems

[04:35:44] <nachox> xenix

[04:35:49] <_Lewellyn> flyingparchment: dos :)

[04:35:53] <flyingparchment> nachox: where do you think openserver comes from? ;)

[04:36:26] <_Lewellyn> nachox: why do you think microsoft's SFU is derived from OpenServer? ;)

[04:36:33] <nachox> flyingparchment, i really had no idea

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[04:36:39] <tek-ops_> hey, is there no more opensolaris swag?

[04:36:43] <tek-ops_> all links seemed to be dead

[04:36:56] <flyingparchment> nachox: SCO acquired Xenix, and openserver is basically "xenix v2"

[04:37:11] <nachox> flyingparchment, when i think of sco's unix, all that comes into my mind is old print servers

[04:37:14] <_Lewellyn> and unixware is "we hated xenix v1"

[04:37:37] <flyingparchment> AIUI, unixware is actually fairly decent - perhaps because it didn't come from SCO originally ;)

[04:38:32] <nachox> it could run in oh, like 2 processors with a special kernel!

[04:38:55] <_Lewellyn> heh. unixware was a terrible thing to give openserver users though :)

[04:41:25] <flyingparchment> (i know someone who lovingly calls it 'opensewer')

[04:41:55] <nachox> they had virtual consoles like linux does

[04:44:22] <nachox> _Lewellyn, they droped the SFU name in server 2008 right?

[04:45:25] <flyingparchment> yes, it's SUA now, also in vista

[04:45:39] <flyingparchment> and they dropped it from all versions of vista except enterprise and ultimate, which is really lame.

[04:47:55] <_Lewellyn> yup. which is why i've only had limited exposure to sua

[04:48:13] <_Lewellyn> i heard that it's now based on unixware, in alignment with sco's support policies

[04:49:36] <nachox> SUA? what does it stand for?

[04:49:44] <flyingparchment> subsystem for unix applications

[04:50:00] <flyingparchment> it's still 'interix 3.5' internally

[04:50:09] <flyingparchment> (XP/server 2003 was 3.0)

[04:50:23] <nachox> it's the good old posix layer? :P

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[04:50:34] <nachox> sorry, bad old

[04:50:40] <flyingparchment> that, and the NFS/NIS integratio

[04:50:41] <flyingparchment> +n

[04:51:10] <nachox> and AD schema extensions

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[04:56:21] <_Lewellyn> it's the POSIX subsystem, yes, nachox

[04:57:39] <_Lewellyn> at least the posix subsystem didn't go the way of the os/2 subsystem

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[05:01:14] <nachox> _Lewellyn, maybe posix compliance is a must to be able to participate in some government bids?

[05:02:37] <_Lewellyn> or they know that posix compliance will help keep big companies from deploying linux? ;)

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[05:03:22] <nachox> btw, b112 has something really useful for some of us ChrootDirectory for sunssh

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[05:12:12] <oninoshiko> _Lewellyn: standerds complience? what is this you speak of?

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[05:19:22] <jkimball4> Is there a way to turn off devices manually in order to save battery?

[05:20:48] <nachox> i'm off to sleep

[05:20:53] <nachox> night guys

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[05:43:37] <dclarke> my ballot has been cast

[05:44:32] <dclarke> very very tough to choose from that list of OGB options

[05:44:40] <dclarke> all top notch people

[05:47:13] <brett_> dclarke: the declines list was interesting

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[05:49:39] <dclarke> the declines list ?

[05:49:45] <dclarke> I did not look too deeply

[05:50:02] <dclarke> yes yes .. I know Ben R and I respect him

[05:50:22] <brett_> he was on the 'not accepted' list

[05:50:32] <dclarke> well, that is okay

[05:51:04] <brett_> but derek cicero, rich teer, jim grisanzio, stephen lau are all on the declines list ;)

[05:51:07] <dclarke> the people that I voted for are all top notch people and I trust that in any circumstances that may arise in the next year, they will do the "right" thing

[05:51:19] <brett_> dcomay too ;)

[05:51:42] <brett_> but yes, many top notch people on the list this year

[05:51:50] <brett_> +diversity

[05:51:55] <dclarke> pardon me folks .. but I have Apache 2.2.11, MySQL 5.0.75 and new PHP5 all in the release queue here

[05:52:14] <dclarke> and GCC 4.3.3 and binutils on the back burner still

[05:52:24] <dclarke> I was just popping in

[05:52:27] <brett_> roger

[05:52:30] <dclarke> gotta run

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[05:52:31] <brett_> have a nice night

[05:53:18] * dclarke vanishes with a loud "whop" like a thousand people all saying "whop"

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[06:05:02] <_Lewellyn> wait. what's this. when's these being released? inquiring minds want to know :)

[06:07:19] <g4lt-lappy> us users have no need to Know

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[06:23:27] <bimbo> hello, is there a command to clear the cache pkg keeps of downloaded programs (ips)?

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[06:26:23] <asyd> \_o<

[06:26:55] <bimbo> I meant packages there, not programs

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[06:35:11] <IvanR_> bimbo: Not yet, there was some recent discussion on the pkg list about better cache management.

[06:36:33] <bimbo> IvanR_: hmm then should I simply delete the directory containing the downloaded content?

[06:39:51] <IvanR_> Right, /var/pkg/download

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[06:40:33] <IvanR_> I've done that on my old laptop which has been updated every couple weeks since the 2008.05 release

[06:42:27] <bimbo> IvanR_: thx for the help

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[06:58:31] <CIA-33> Gangadhar Mylapuram <Gangadhar.M at Sun dot COM>: 6618447 processor_bind(2) returned EPERM when binding bind an active non-global zone to a processor., 6791277 psrset gives wrong message when run on system processes

[06:58:32] <CIA-33> Thomas Haynes <Thomas.Haynes at Sun dot COM>: 6775211 mirror mounts use the zcred; should use caller's cr augmented w/ PRIV_SYS_MOUNT

[07:00:24] * _Lewellyn takes aim and shoots

[07:00:30] <_Lewellyn> i think the duck got away

[07:00:35] <_Lewellyn> there's a dog laughing at me :(

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[07:19:32] * codestr0m happily bounces around

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[07:22:50] * _Lewellyn runs

[07:23:16] <rags> :)

[07:23:38] * codestr0m hits _Lewellyn with a snowball

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[07:29:41] <_Lewellyn> it's cold enough tonight that it wouldn't melt before hitting me :(

[07:29:50] <e^ipi> todays coffee cost less than folgers

[07:29:51] <e^ipi> hooray!

[07:30:25] <_Lewellyn> <@e^ipi> too bad it doesn't taste as good as folgers. boo.

[07:30:30] <e^ipi> and it's actually good, without the burnt tire flavour of commodity grade vietnamese robusta

[07:30:52] <e^ipi> _Lewellyn: it's not bad, i paid $1.90/lb green for it

[07:31:38] <e^ipi> not amazing like a fruity ethiopian, but defect free and pretty smooth

[07:32:07] <_Lewellyn> i keep a fruity ethiopian on-call

[07:32:21] <_Lewellyn> fun to watch him prance around while redecorating my apartment

[07:32:55] <e^ipi> like this guy: http://truebloodguide.com/wp-content/themes/wp-vybe/graphics/cat/lafayette/lafayette-reynolds-7.jpg

[07:33:21] <e^ipi> damn, you beat me to it

[07:33:32] <e^ipi> minus the picture

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[07:36:10] <bimbo> hello, I'm missing about 10gb of space, I don't know where they are... df -h reports 96% usage of my pool, but that can't be ok, here's the output of it: http://pastebin.ca/1370089

[07:36:33] <e^ipi> snapshots

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[07:57:42] <_setuid_H> Morning everybody

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[07:58:33] <CIA-33> sonam gupta - Sun Microsystems - Bangalore India <Sonam.Gupta at Sun dot COM>: 6789790 'lpstat -o' doesnot display the host-info along with the owner of the request with ipp service

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[08:33:36] <c00p> when does ibm take over sun ?

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[08:35:29] <_setuid_H> c00p: without comment

[08:35:36] <_setuid_H> c00p: this is what my manager told me

[08:35:37] <_setuid_H> :-)

[08:36:07] <c00p> he smiled about it ?

[08:36:15] <_setuid_H> c00p: but my personal opinion is that it won't happen

[08:36:55] <c00p> lol - my sun sales rep was out on site a month ago and he bagged all the x86 ibm we had - might have to change his thought soon :)

[08:36:58] <c00p> *thoughts

[08:37:33] <_setuid_H> c00p: but when the IBM is starting to spam it's employees with mail containing to "no-comment" sentence ... it stared to be a serious thing

[08:38:24] <c00p> is ibm based in the valley ? They are else where in the states arn't they ?

[08:38:58] <_setuid_H> c00p: I'm not sure, I'm far away from US

[08:39:59] <c00p> same - I am AU ...

[08:40:12] <c00p> anyways - indoor soccer time :)

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[08:41:35] <_setuid_H> c00p: I'm neighbour

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[08:41:38] <_setuid_H> c00p: CZ

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[08:41:52] <_setuid_H> c00p: if AU stands for Austria :-)

[08:41:56] <_setuid_H> not Australia

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[08:46:32] <_Lewellyn> austria would be .at, i think

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[08:47:23] <_setuid_H> _Lewellyn: it should be in Deutsch, I'm not sure if english Acronym is the same

[08:47:36] <CosmicDJ> au isn't Austria-hUnngary? ;)

[08:47:54] <_Lewellyn> CosmicDJ: .au is australia

[08:48:02] <CosmicDJ> just kidding

[08:48:19] <_Lewellyn> i still don't understand why switzerland is .ch tho

[08:48:28] <_Lewellyn> not that i've ever cared enough to ask the interwebnet

[08:49:17] <CosmicDJ> _Lewellyn: "Confoederatio Helvetica" in latin

[08:50:16] <_Lewellyn> ah

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[08:58:29] <CIA-33> "Nagaraj Yedathore - Sun Microsystems - Bangalore India" <Nagaraj.Yedathore at Sun dot COM>: 6815198 lp -d .. -H hold not working for s10u5

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[09:15:36] <Setien> is it possible to install mod_dav_svn for apache with pkg somehow?

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[09:19:34] <DesiJat> set: u using Coolstack (1.3) ?

[09:19:36] <DesiJat> if so

[09:19:37] <DesiJat> http://blogs.sun.com/basant/entry/compiling_subversion_in_coolstack_1

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[09:19:46] <DesiJat> (you'll have to compile)

[09:19:56] <DesiJat> steps 2,3,4,5

[09:21:44] <DesiJat> sleep time

[09:21:45] <DesiJat> l8rs

[09:21:46] <Setien> DesiJat: Nope, not using coolstack

[09:21:47] <Setien> ok

[09:21:49] <Setien> bye

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[09:29:20] <Setien> what is the effective way of finding packages? I never seem to be able to find the packages I need

[09:29:37] <crink> is there #opensparc channel?

[09:32:40] <Setien> how do you guys find a package name?

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[09:40:57] <smtms> crink, if you join it, there is

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[09:41:17] <crink> smtms: where?

[09:42:30] <crink> yeah i can make any channel whatever

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[09:52:44] <deena> HI

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[09:53:38] <deena> I installed opensolaris.. i want to add more packages can anyone say how to do that

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[09:54:39] <smtms> deena, have you read about IPS?

[09:55:03] <deena> didnt!!!

[09:55:18] <Stric> deena: You should have Add packages  or somesuch in the leftmost menu

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[09:55:50] <deena> i am able to open up the package manager but i am not able to install or uninstal the packages

[09:56:12] <deena> is it not possible in opensolaris login as root in X ?

[09:56:27] <Stric> No, root is not a regular account

[09:56:36] <Stric> but a role that can be assigned

[09:56:57] <Stric> by default, the first account you created should be able to use the root account through the package manager for instance

[09:57:16] <Stric> try opening a terminal and run 'pfexec id'  does that say root?

[09:57:39] <deena> let me try 1 sec

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[09:59:10] <deena> pfexec id

[09:59:10] <deena> uid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=10(staff)

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[09:59:36] <Stric> seems right then.. what happens when you try to add packages? (which will fetch over the network.. you have network, right?)

[10:00:00] <deena> everything fine... install and uninstall button is in disable state

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[10:00:36] <deena> it is fetching the package from internet

[10:01:28] <deena> i am not able to click over install/update botton

[10:01:32] <deena> to install new package

[10:01:58] <Stric> ok, and if you remember a package name you want, then run 'pfexec pkg install thatpackagename' in a terminal?

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[10:03:11] <deena> let me try and one more thing sound is not detecting in my system any idea on this?

[10:04:32] <Stric> Run the Driver Detect Utility to see if it's supported or not

[10:05:05] <deena> 1 sec stric i am running now

[10:06:01] <Stric> hm.. don't remember what the gui package tool is called, and the only osol machine I have up and running was installed differently and lacks it..

[10:06:15] <Stric> otherwise you could try 'pfexec packagemanagernamewhateveritiscalled'

[10:06:34] <deena> my audio driver is audiovia823x

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[10:15:55] <seanmcg> Stric, almost had it right.  The gui package tool is called packagemanager

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[10:18:33] <deena> any idea???  audio detection is not happening do i have to install any more packages

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[10:19:30] <trochej> Coffee

[10:19:50] <asyd> heya

[10:20:21] <sickness> :'''

[10:20:24] <sickness> I'd like coffee too

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[10:34:01] <lblume> How to prevent vncserver to raise the number of bpp sent over the wire automatically? I keep setting it to 2 (64 colours) client-side, but after a while, it sets it back to 8.

[10:34:44] <codestr0m> lblume: Hej

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[10:35:24] <_Lewellyn> lblume: i've never seen this behavior. then again, i only ever run at 8 :)

[10:35:31] <lblume> Hi codestr0m

[10:36:52] <lblume> I want 24 bit available for the X server, because I run GNOME inside it, it sucks at 8 and it doesn't work at 16 (well, Java doesn't to be precise).

[10:37:14] <_Lewellyn> then why are you running at 2?

[10:38:05] <lblume> Only the VNC client is at 6 bpp (sorry, not 2, mistake)

[10:38:46] <lblume> It's visually much better to have GNOME run in 24 and send 6 , than run it at 8 and send all 8 :-)

[10:39:24] <_Lewellyn> but uses more ram :)

[10:39:34] <_Lewellyn> wait. 6bpp? i bet that's the reason :)

[10:39:39] <lblume> Who cares?

[10:40:01] <_Lewellyn> well, my vnc server box has limited ram, so i care. :)

[10:40:32] <lblume> Hmm, I'm sure I've got a few RMB I could use to buy you a few more GB's, let me see...

[10:41:04] <lblume> But why 6 bpp would be the reason? It works well, just that after a while, it gets back to 24 (so, much slower)

[10:41:08] <_Lewellyn> for an ultra 5 ;)

[10:41:27] <_Lewellyn> well, i'm not sure. i'm looking into non-standard bit depths + vnc right now

[10:41:31] <_Lewellyn> which viewer do you use, btw?

[10:42:00] <lblume> People who use SPARC workstations for anything else than doorstops don't deserver a single fen :-P

[10:42:16] <lblume> It's RealVNC standalone viewer.

[10:42:26] <_Lewellyn> heh. it's obsolete, but not useless :)

[10:42:47] <lblume> I never looked for anything else, actually, it worked.

[10:42:52] <_Lewellyn> i suppose i could move vnc over to a v100, but that seems wrong... at least the ultra 5 has a framebuffer ;)

[10:43:08] <_Lewellyn> yeah. the realvnc viewer works best with the realvnc server. :)

[10:43:17] <_Lewellyn> and i think realvnc is all you have for servers for solaris

[10:43:36] <lblume> Nah, I used to have tightvnc from Blastwave.

[10:43:37] <_Lewellyn> not that i've investigated replacements

[10:43:54] <lblume> It had a lesser protocol, but not the bpp issue.

[10:43:54] <_Lewellyn> the tightvnc server runs on solaris? weird.

[10:44:23] <_Lewellyn> i'm rereading the protocol spec atm

[10:45:12] <lblume> Why weird? It's only a recompilation matter? Ok, a most boring one, I tried once or twice, and gave up on the XFree86 3.3 part.

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[10:46:18] <_Lewellyn> sure nuff it's the 6 bits per pixel

[10:46:35] <_Lewellyn> "Currently bits-per-pixel must be 8, 16 or 32C"BBless than 8-bit pixels are not yet

[10:46:38] <_Lewellyn> supported."

[10:46:42] <lblume> But why would it change automatically?

[10:46:44] <_Lewellyn> from the RFB 3.8 spec

[10:47:18] <_Lewellyn> probably because it's unsupported and the behavior is then undefined? :)

[10:47:31] <trochej> Aaah

[10:47:32] <lblume> Hmmm, I'm not talking about the X server part, right? It's not what's shown by xdpyinfo, but what's in the vnc *client* options (Full, medium, low, very low)

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[10:47:44] <dsch04> Morning all

[10:48:00] <lblume> I've set Low, and would like it to stay that way.

[10:48:12] <_Lewellyn> i'm talking about the protocol. it isn't meant to go < 8 bpp.

[10:48:23] <_Lewellyn> low should be 8bpp

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[10:48:29] <TT> hi

[10:48:32] <lblume> Why would they set options for 8 and 4, then?

[10:48:35] <_Lewellyn> morning dsch04 and TT

[10:48:38] <lblume> 6 and 4, I mean?

[10:48:48] <_Lewellyn> lblume: dunno... is rfb 3.8 current?

[10:48:52] <lblume> 'evening, even.

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[10:48:59] <_Lewellyn> and what version does your server support?

[10:49:03] <dsch04> Well, I left my errant workstation booting overnight, and it finally came up

[10:49:09] <_Lewellyn> dsch04: woo! :D

[10:49:11] <lblume> Yes, I'm using 3.8.

[10:49:37] <TT> cani replace disks when my pool is a stripe of some disks? or is this only possible with raidz1 and mirrors?

[10:49:50] <dsch04> Took about 90 mins to boot :$

[10:50:08] <_Lewellyn> lblume: then there may be a higher rfb version that i've not yet seen :)

[10:50:14] <_Lewellyn> dsch04: cool! :D

[10:50:15] <tsoome> TT you have broken disk?

[10:50:34] <TT> not now i want only to inform

[10:50:37] <_Lewellyn> lblume: oh, btw. do you use irssi at all?

[10:51:03] <dsch04> I think I may revert to Ubuntu for now

[10:51:08] <tsoome> if you have raid 0 and broken disk, you will loose your data related to disk

[10:51:15] <lblume> irssi? The name sounds vaguely familiar, but I can't place it.

[10:51:20] <_Lewellyn> dsch04: what took 90 mins to boot?

[10:51:20] <sickness> irssi++

[10:51:22] <dsch04> My OpenSolaris-on-the-desktop experience is not going well

[10:51:23] <sickness> :)

[10:51:23] <_Lewellyn> lblume: irc client

[10:51:25] <TT> i know this

[10:51:38] <_Lewellyn> i have issues where irssi + screen hangs when i input chinese :(

[10:51:43] <lblume> Oh, nah, I'm a lazy Pidgin user.

[10:51:44] <sickness> tsoome: I think with raid0 you will lose all the data...

[10:51:51] <lblume> All my IM in a single GTK app.

[10:51:53] <tsoome> if you wanna replace working device, use zpool attach and once data is mirrored, detach old one

[10:52:09] <dsch04> _Lewellyn, It's a 2008-11 install, upgraded to snv109

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[10:52:25] <_Lewellyn> dsch04: did 2008.11 do it?

[10:52:32] <dsch04> "do it" ?

[10:52:33] <tsoome> sickness: basically yes

[10:52:42] <sickness> lblume: with irssi+betlebee I have all my Im in irssi :P

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[10:52:49] <_Lewellyn> dsch04: take that long

[10:53:05] <_Lewellyn> sickness: irssi starts sucking at around 30 active channels

[10:53:06] <lblume> I've seen a hang issue in OpenOffice 3 when IIIM has been modified at least once before starting it, it can be worked around by starting it in the C locale, have you tried that?

[10:53:14] <_Lewellyn> you start running out of keybindings to hijack :P

[10:53:15] <tsoome> sickness: but it really depends on situation;)

[10:53:18] <dsch04> I don't recall, but I've had the issue for a while now

[10:53:27] <_Lewellyn> lblume: i'm sshed in from windows atm :)

[10:53:39] <_Lewellyn> lblume: but i can duplicate it from any ssh client and qq's ime

[10:53:56] <_Lewellyn> dsch04: :(

[10:54:25] <_Lewellyn> lblume: i should probably activate a different ime, but i suspect that won't change anything

[10:54:58] <dsch04> I thought I'd give it a whirl, but too many deficiencies to use as my main machine

[10:55:04] <sickness> _Lewellyn: omg, I don't have that much channels =)

[10:55:35] <lblume> Ah, so it's really the input of non-ASCII that it doesn't swallow, not the IME per se. Is it UTF-8?

[10:55:38] <_Lewellyn> sickness: i just quit about 30 channels so my act bar was no longer wider than my screen :P

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[10:55:57] <sickness> lblume: the problem is IIIM itself >:)

[10:55:57] <lblume> Want me to send some Chinese to your terminal? :-)

[10:56:03] <_Lewellyn> lblume: i think it's utf-8 it chokes on. i did a test in another screen, pasting from my browser

[10:56:18] <_Lewellyn> sickness: no iiim on windows. i'm using qq's ime :)

[10:56:29] <_Lewellyn> and it doesn't matter which ssh client

[10:56:33] * _Lewellyn tries a test without screen

[10:56:46] <lblume> Hmmmm, but your IIIM is Windows' or Solaris'? I'm using a VNC session, so my Pidgin uses Solaris', not Windows', for example.

[10:57:14] <_Lewellyn> ssh doesn't have an input editor ;)

[10:57:15] <sickness> _Lewellyn: omg, I know qq, a chinese coworker of mine used to use that, it's even worse than msn, afaik :P

[10:57:40] <_Lewellyn> the ime isn't directly related to the im client :)

[10:57:45] <lblume> And QQ is all I have on my Nokia, so I'll have to learn to use it :-)

[10:58:56] <lblume> I don't know what kind of IIIM QQ has. I'm on Windows, with its own IME thing activated (Chinese/French/English).

[10:59:26] <lblume> I guess you checked all your ssh client config to get the correct locale on cnonecting?

[11:00:29] <sickness> all the world should be ascii 7bit and nothing more, we will spare us all this mess >:P

[11:00:34] <sickness> ghgh

[11:00:37] <sickness> s/will/would/

[11:01:19] <_Lewellyn> lblume: yes. and it's not the ime. qq just auto-updated. and now it spews what appears to be jibberish at me when i type in securecrt :)

[11:01:23] <_Lewellyn> C$B=B C%B%B=

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[11:04:54] <lblume> Why don't you use Windows IME?

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[11:05:30] <_Lewellyn> because its pinyin isn't what i've learnt, and it's ugly? :)

[11:05:51] <_Lewellyn> qq pinyin also "learns" pretty well

[11:05:52] <lblume> AFAIK, QQ has some compatibility issues because it doesn't always use UTF, but rather GB18030 or others.

[11:06:29] <_Lewellyn> yeah. that seems to be what it's doing now in securecrt. which is preferable to hanging my irssi under screen when i accidentally hit alt-shift

[11:07:50] <codestr0m> QQ is 99% only used by chinese... (and for a while it caused problems with msn and it being open at the same time)

[11:08:06] <lblume> Well, for its flaw, Dinwsows IME is also rather compatible with Solaris' :-) I haven't tried much the non-pinyin based versions to compare them, though.

[11:08:14] <_Lewellyn> codestr0m: that's who i communicate with using qq, yes :) and it's far more compatible now.

[11:08:41] <codestr0m> _Lewellyn: yeah. I bitched in #pidgin a few times to have them test more before cutting a release with QQ all borked

[11:08:43] <_Lewellyn> and i think i like TM2008 better than QQ2009 :P

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[11:09:20] <_Lewellyn> codestr0m: heh. i did the same with adium and their response was "no one uses qq, anywhere. wait for it to be fixed upstream. we won't bug them to do it."

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[11:09:42] <codestr0m> _Lewellyn: do you do business in china? (which part if so?)

[11:09:56] <_Lewellyn> nevermind that there's 42.5 million people signed into qq at this moment

[11:10:03] <_Lewellyn> i don't do business in china directly, no.

[11:10:47] * lblume lives in China now, and will need a working QQ.

[11:10:57] <codestr0m> _Lewellyn: yeah, but it's almost like an island. the chinese do *a lot* of research/development, but outside of china you'd never know

[11:11:22] <_Lewellyn> yup.

[11:11:28] <codestr0m> lblume: you'll need to fiddle with your trigger keys. that's how I got the thing to stop crashing

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[11:11:56] <_Lewellyn> lblume: english language?

[11:12:02] <codestr0m> I remapped to L / R shift instead of the typical alt-shift, but that's partly because it conflicted with Intellij

[11:13:53] <_Lewellyn> i dislike the alt-lshift default simply because my keyboard has no right control, so i accidentally switch languages instead of ctrl+alt :P

[11:15:25] <trochej> Coffee

[11:15:29] <trochej> It doesn't switch

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[11:15:55] <_Lewellyn> i also wish that i could buy premium stuff for qq from outside china. :P

[11:15:57] <lblume> codestr0m: I just built the pidgin version that supports QQ again, so haven't fiddled with it yet.

[11:16:01] <_Lewellyn> qqshow is neat :D

[11:16:10] <_Lewellyn> lblume: last i played with it, its qq support blew

[11:16:30] <_Lewellyn> since a lot of my QQing is in groups, and its group support was about non-existent, it was useless

[11:16:43] <_Lewellyn> and i do voice/video chat with qq, too. :P

[11:17:14] <seanmcg> _Lewellyn, you wanna build a spec file for pidgin + qq support and submit it for the gnome on opensolaris ?-)

[11:17:44] <_Lewellyn> seanmcg: um. once i can find a blank dvd so i can install 110, sure ;)

[11:17:44] <codestr0m> seanmcg: there's a spec file for pidgin already.. they just need to stop disabling QQ afaik

[11:18:02] <_Lewellyn> codestr0m: qq has a dependency, iirc

[11:18:38] <_Lewellyn> dude. wtf. qq2009 didn't keep my message history from tm2008. that's annoying, at best :(

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[11:19:04] <lblume> The latest Pidgin builds QQ without option ( it magically appeared)

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[11:19:20] <lblume> No dependency that I can tell.

[11:19:31] <_Lewellyn> oh, so pidgin now supports qq on opensolaris? neat

[11:19:32] <lblume> Oh, on S10, not OS.com.

[11:20:00] <_Lewellyn> i looked at building it once on solaris 10 and qq had a dependency i didn't have installed :P

[11:21:55] <lblume> Nah, it builds fine without any extra dependency.

[11:22:02] <lblume> At least for most protocols.

[11:22:23] <_Lewellyn> i'll take a look at it after i can get 110 up

[11:22:47] <lblume> Sure, I can send you my ./configure options if you want.

[11:23:24] <_Lewellyn> well, they won't do me much good atm :(

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[11:27:34] <_Lewellyn> ok. since people who "know things" may be lurking at this hour... i think i found a blank dvd, so... ;)

[11:28:01] <_Lewellyn> what's the best way to try to do data recovery on my zfs partition?

[11:28:22] <_Lewellyn> i have 2 directories i care about, only :P

[11:28:43] <lblume> tar

[11:28:46] <lblume> :-P

[11:28:56] <lblume> I've got to go anyway, good luck!

[11:28:57] <_Lewellyn> i don't expect the filesystem to mount :(

[11:29:00] <_Lewellyn> have fun!

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[11:43:46] <_Lewellyn> yay. burning 110. finally. it had better not fail because i think i'm out of dvd blanks now :(

[11:45:18] <seanmcg> network boot instead of burning dvds..

[11:45:36] <_Lewellyn> not an option with this scenario

[11:45:48] <_Lewellyn> i need to try to recover some data from my damaged zfs partition

[11:46:08] <_Lewellyn> unless there's a way to netboot to a shell that i'm unfamiliar with

[11:46:50] <_Lewellyn> (easily)

[11:46:52] <seanmcg> netboot single usermode..

[11:47:44] <_Lewellyn> well, too late for that now. and i've not looked into how to netboot opensolaris/sxce yet

[11:47:56] <_Lewellyn> i heard that it's changed

[11:48:19] <_Lewellyn> besides, it's good to keep an install disc around. i gave out my last one to someone

[11:48:34] <seanmcg> yes, for opensolaris net boot has changed.

[11:48:54] <seanmcg> or use usb to boot from.

[11:49:10] <_Lewellyn> that'd involve having a spare usb disk of sufficient capacity

[11:49:43] <seanmcg> 15 euro gets a 4GB one, easily holds opensolaris.

[11:49:49] <seanmcg> :)

[11:49:51] <_Lewellyn> don't have one handy

[11:49:56] <_Lewellyn> and this burn failed. joy.

[11:50:02] <_Lewellyn> so. can i netboot off wifi? ;)

[11:50:28] <seanmcg> um.. probably not.  wifi doesn't support PXE boot :}

[11:50:40] <_Lewellyn> well then, it's not an option atm, either then :)

[11:50:50] <seanmcg> how close is your nearest shop that sells a usb stick ?

[11:50:52] <_Lewellyn> guess i get to scrounge more for a blank dvd

[11:50:55] <_Lewellyn> it's 4am

[11:51:03] <_Lewellyn> so probably about 10-15 miles

[11:51:22] <seanmcg> sleep on it.

[11:51:38] <_Lewellyn> and i've been in bed sick for the past week which is why i don't have a new spindles of dvds yet :P

[11:51:56] <seanmcg> more reason for sleep

[11:52:18] <_Lewellyn> i sleep even more randomly atm. i was hoping reinstalling would give me more time to sleep :)

[11:53:51] <seanmcg> well, now you're no option but to sleep :)

[11:54:11] <_Lewellyn> meh. i'll scrounge for another blank. there's bound to be one around here *somewhere* :P

[11:54:36] <seanmcg> sure, another week sick in bed is just what you want :)

[11:55:03] <_Lewellyn> i need to get out of bed occasionally :P

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[12:05:39] <sickness> does a binding to do pageup/pagedown exist, without those keys?

[12:06:07] <sickness> esc+p esc+n seems to work tnx!

[12:16:23] <trochej> Coffee

[12:16:53] <codestr0m> sickness: ctrl+v and then press the key combination you want to see the keycode

[12:17:08] <codestr0m> from there you can map like you need

[12:17:18] <codestr0m> (you probably know this already)

[12:17:48] <sickness> oh

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[12:24:32] <Keso> hmm new version of virtualbox beta 1 with usb support but no solaris build yet :(

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[12:25:15] <_Lewellyn> Keso: build 44647?

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[12:26:04] <Keso> _Lewellyn: yep

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[12:26:07] <_Lewellyn> http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/2.2.0_BETA1/VirtualBox-2.2.0_BETA1-44647-SunOS.tar.gz

[12:26:10] <_Lewellyn> that one? ;)

[12:26:40] <Keso> _Lewellyn: damn, I have to eat more carrots

[12:27:01] <_Lewellyn> /sun

[12:27:02] <_Lewellyn> ;)

[12:27:08] <_Lewellyn> /solaris didn't work

[12:27:42] <Keso> _Lewellyn: I was searching /sol /x64 etc

[12:27:43] <Keso> :0

[12:28:31] <_Lewellyn> /sun is your friend

[12:28:45] * _Lewellyn cues laugh track for the few who get the joke there

[12:29:44] * seanmcg thinks _Lewellyn really needs sleep now

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[12:30:57] <_Lewellyn> :(

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[12:31:49] <tough> hi

[12:32:02] <tough> is it possible to have dual boot in opensolaris?

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[12:32:14] <smtms> it is

[12:33:09] <trochej> It is also possible to have dual espresso

[12:33:13] <_Lewellyn> with vista, even

[12:33:20] <trochej> Yup

[12:33:23] <trochej> With Vista

[12:33:32] <trochej> I even had dual espresso with OS/2 Warp

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[12:38:13] <_Lewellyn> i have a bunny who likes sitting on my warp 3 red box :)

[12:39:36] <smtms> photos? :-)

[12:40:16] <_Lewellyn> if he wouldn't run when i point a phone or camera at him, maybe :(

[12:41:17] <seanmcg> is the bunny's name Harvey ?

[12:41:23] <_Lewellyn> no.

[12:41:34] <_Lewellyn> and i also don't have a duck named howard

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[12:43:05] <trochej> Do you have coffee?

[12:43:12] <tsoome> yes!

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[12:43:25] <tsoome> just got it:D

[12:48:13] <tsoome> ull.... http://www.arvutid.ee/prod.asp?cid=MLSS4212_NP4&pr_id=nov&series=MLSS4200 :D

[12:50:26] <_Lewellyn> yeah. i don't understand that page. but the red input areas are nasty :(

[12:50:30] <tsoome> oops, wrong channel

[12:50:33] <_Lewellyn> heh

[12:50:39] <tsoome> sorry:D

[12:50:49] <_Lewellyn> :)

[12:51:12] <tsoome> friend was looking for dirt cheap storage solutionsD:

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[12:51:46] <seanmcg> what currency is that in tsoome ?

[12:51:56] <tsoome> price tags starting from like 500-600 EUR

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[12:52:15] <tsoome> estonian crone (EEK) on that page

[12:58:39] <CIA-33> Amrita Sadhukhan <Amrita.Sadhukhan at Sun dot COM>: 6679231 port_getattr() sets vap->va_mask to 0 which could confuse callers

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[13:08:43] <Keso> _Lewellyn: did you tried usb support ? in virtualbox ?

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[13:09:57] <_Lewellyn> Keso: um. since my zfs partition is corrupt and i haven't figured out how to recover a couple of files that weren't backed up yet, i've not tried vbox at all lately

[13:10:16] <Keso> o.k i'll not ask

[13:11:19] <_Lewellyn> but it's definitely something i want to try :)

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[13:15:57] <Keso> _Lewellyn: I didnt successed with palm device and SE mobile

[13:16:38] <_Lewellyn> Keso: :(

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[13:47:09] <cidco> I am trying to get crontab to use nano as ther editor because i hate vim, i have added export EDITOR=nano to my bashrc but still when i run crontab -e it uses vim. Also when I type set it shows the variable EDITOR=nano, am i missing something ?

[13:48:52] <tough> export  EDITOR

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[13:49:12] <tough> you will get nano once you are exported

[13:49:32] <_Lewellyn> is nano installed?

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[13:49:54] <_Lewellyn> i.e. from SFE?

[13:50:00] <cidco> yes nano is installed and works

[13:50:13] <cidco> and i added /opt/csw/bin to my path

[13:50:23] <cidco> SFE?

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[13:50:44] <tough> logout and try agian..

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[13:51:16] <cidco> ok

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[13:52:51] <cidco> same

[13:53:19] <_Lewellyn> SFE is spec-files-extra

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[13:53:38] <_Lewellyn> they're RPM-style spec files using a sun build system

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[13:54:01] <cidco> ok, i didnt use that I dont think. I installed it from blastwave.

[13:54:28] <_Lewellyn> last i checked, blastwave still tried to never rely on system packages. so i still don't like it :P

[13:54:46] <cidco> ah, wasnt aware of that

[13:55:18] <cidco> ok, im wondering if the prob;em im having is with the mehod im using, because now the EDITOR isnt even showing up when i type set

[13:55:29] <cidco> here is the process im going through.

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[13:56:23] <cidco> I setup the .bashrc, then i SU to root and run sudo -i so that it processes my profile and bashrc.

[13:56:35] <cidco> then i type crontab -e

[13:56:40] <cidco> and nothing

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[13:59:46] <cidco> does that seem like it should work?

[14:00:31] <_Lewellyn> you're using: export EDITOR=nano

[14:00:34] <_Lewellyn> correct?

[14:00:43] <_Lewellyn> wait no

[14:00:47] <cidco> if i just type "export EDITOR=nano" into the shell and type crontab -e that should work also right?

[14:00:49] <cidco> yes i am

[14:00:54] <_Lewellyn> why aren't you using pfexec?

[14:00:58] <cidco> hmm

[14:01:04] <cidco> not to familiar with it

[14:01:12] <cidco> first run at solaris

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[14:01:34] <_Lewellyn> i think you'll find login shell -> su -> sudo -i won't work anywhere

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[14:02:17] <cidco> so pfexec crontab -e should ?

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[14:02:54] <_Lewellyn> if you set it up, yes

[14:02:54] <chrol> is there a fix to get aptitude to work?

[14:03:01] <_Lewellyn> aptitude? o_O

[14:03:10] <codestr0m> chrol: ##nexenta buddy

[14:03:33] <cidco> ok ill read a little about it, thanks for pointg me in the right direction.

[14:03:39] <chrol> aptitude loads fine but doesn't handle any input

[14:03:44] <chrol> on ncp2 rc1

[14:03:56] <_Lewellyn> chrol: you're speaking greek to most of us

[14:04:08] <_Lewellyn> codestr0m apparently thinks ##nexenta is where you should be ;)

[14:04:15] <codestr0m> chrol: I'd highly suggest you don't talk deb stuff here.. ask in ##nexenta

[14:04:19] <chrol> aha ok - sorry.  codestr0m is righ.

[14:04:25] <chrol> right...

[14:04:45] <chrol> colloqoy IRC client switched between forums...

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[14:07:12] <cidco> the man page for pfexec doesnt have much, where do you configure the profiles it speaks of ?

[14:07:44] <_Lewellyn> www.google.com/search?q=pfexec

[14:08:02] <_Lewellyn> there's a link to c0t0d0s0 and developers.sun.com and weblogs.java.net

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[14:08:07] <_Lewellyn> those are the 3 i'd recommend :)

[14:08:27] <_Lewellyn> there's far more, as you see from those results

[14:08:29] <Okona> cidco: 'rbac' is the magic word

[14:08:38] <cidco> rbac?

[14:08:47] <Stric> role based access control

[14:09:03] <cidco> ok ill check it out thanks again

[14:09:04] <_Lewellyn> Okona: it's the magic word, but won't get him digestible information as quickly :)

[14:09:33] <Okona> _Lewellyn: the young apprentice has to improve his google-fu

[14:09:41] <_Lewellyn> the blog posts returned by that google search link to good rbac stuff :)

[14:09:54] <_Lewellyn> Okona: yup. that's why i linked a good query ;)

[14:10:06] <Okona> fine

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[14:10:33] <cidco> so is pfexec a replacement for sudo ?

[14:11:09] <_Lewellyn> it's far more fine-grained and powerful than sudo

[14:11:30] <_Lewellyn> it's a sudo-alike

[14:11:43] <Okona> you can use it for the same purpose, cidco

[14:12:02] <cidco> ok

[14:12:17] <_Lewellyn> only there's no password prompt :)

[14:12:26] <cidco> yes, i noticed that,

[14:12:26] <_Lewellyn> (for better or for worse)

[14:12:47] <cidco> thats why i thought it couldnt possibly be giving you shose privelges without asking for a password.

[14:13:01] <Stric> your account is flagged to be trusted

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[14:13:07] <cidco> when i was formating some drives i ran pfexec format and it worked

[14:13:15] <Stric> regular accounts can't

[14:13:17] <cidco> just didnt research what i was actualy doing.

[14:13:25] <_Lewellyn> cidco: id ; pfexec id; id

[14:13:37] <andy_js> Hi, I'm having a problem with solaris and linux reporting different sizes for the same file

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[14:13:54] <andy_js> is this a known issue?

[14:14:01] <_Lewellyn> who's right? ;)

[14:14:14] <_Lewellyn> and what does windows report?

[14:14:59] <andy_js> _Lewellyn: you asking me?  I don't have a copy of windows to try.  Who needs it?

[14:15:07] <_Lewellyn> yes, i'm asking you.

[14:15:25] <_Lewellyn> in this case, it would be edifying to see what windows or dos has to say about the file

[14:15:53] <andy_js> A little bit of context:

[14:16:03] <_Lewellyn> always helpful

[14:16:05] <andy_js> I'm creating APT repo for opensolaris

[14:16:34] <andy_js> the server is running linux and reports different file sizes than reported in the package index

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[14:17:30] <googlypi> Are we talking bytes here, or KB or KiB, or what?

[14:17:31] <tsoome> and thats surprise?

[14:17:47] <_Lewellyn> and if linux is reporting the wrong sizes, how is solaris at fault?

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[14:18:16] <andy_js> well I've tried two different linux boxes, and they report the same

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[14:18:33] <tsoome> try md5;)

[14:18:44] <andy_js> I'd love to be able to put solaris on the server, but unfortunatly I cant

[14:19:05] <_Lewellyn> again, if linux reports the wrong size, how is solaris at fault?>

[14:19:23] <Stric> andy_js: what kind of "report size" ? the byte count according to 'ls -l', disk usage, etc?

[14:19:43] <Stric> file size according to 'du' is quite probable that it will differ

[14:20:06] <_Lewellyn> almost expected, in fact

[14:20:26] <_Lewellyn> especially if it's a different filesystem type

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[14:21:01] <andy_js> damn, the md5 is different

[14:21:09] <andy_js> how is this possible?

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[14:21:18] <tsoome> its an linux

[14:21:33] <Stric> andy_js: because you're not checking the same file contents

[14:21:40] <tsoome> download the file again

[14:21:55] <_Lewellyn> andy_js: is this the same exact filesystem on both operating systems?

[14:22:02] <andy_js> not afaik

[14:22:05] <Stric> with different file size and different contents, I would say you're not using the same file ;)

[14:22:15] <_Lewellyn> then how did you get the data transferred?

[14:22:26] <_Lewellyn> and i don't see where solaris fits in here still

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[14:23:08] <andy_js> I got the data via ftp, thats also how I uploaded it

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[14:23:55] <Stric> ftp can modify the file

[14:23:58] <Stric> use 'binary mode'

[14:24:06] <andy_js> I did use binary mode

[14:24:19] <Stric> then something else trashed the file, try again

[14:24:45] <_Lewellyn> or it was mistransferred to the server

[14:24:56] <Stric> verify file size and contents for every step

[14:24:58] <Stric> see where it failed

[14:25:29] <nachox> wesolows is still at sun?

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[14:25:44] <nachox> i havent seen him around for AGES

[14:27:35] <jbk> he was as of a few months ago

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[14:32:58] <Okona> how reliable is the output of 'psrinfo -vp' concerning the MHz number?

[14:34:05] <cidco> http://www.c0t0d0s0.org/archives/4844-Less-known-Solaris-features-pfexec.html good guide on pfexec :)

[14:34:29] <tsoome> Okona read the source

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[14:37:15] <IvanR_> Okona: I'd think it would be accurate, but I'm not sure what it would show of power management is throttling the speed down.

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[14:38:08] <Okona> IvanR_: ic, in My case, i have an Athlon 3000+ and it constantly shows 1300mhz

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[14:38:38] <_Lewellyn> Okona: that sounds about right, no?

[14:39:47] <_Lewellyn> what does "/usr/bin/kstat cpu_info" say?

[14:40:24] <Okona> same frequency

[14:40:44] <bda> AMD CPU names have nothing to do with their clock speed.

[14:40:57] <bda> Haven't for years and years.

[14:41:02] <nachox> Athlon 64 3000+	2000 MHz

[14:41:06] <_Lewellyn> kstat -m cpu_info -i 0 -s supported_frequencies_Hz

[14:41:08] <nachox> from the wikipedia

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[14:41:33] <_Lewellyn> what's the last line of that?

[14:43:09] <Okona> supported_frequencies_Hz        1300009693

[14:43:50] <Okona> bda, that is clear, but 1300 seems to low for Athlon XP 3000+ (which is 2100Hz according to Wikipedia)

[14:44:21] <bda> Seems more like your BIOS may be at fault than the OS.

[14:44:25] <nachox> Okona, what does psrinfo -vp return btw?

[14:44:44] <nachox> the cpu model i mean

[14:44:59] <Okona> AuthenticAMD 6A0 family 6 model 10 step 0 clock 1300 MHz

[14:46:34] <Okona> perhaps i shall revisit the bios. But the boot up sceen shows 2100 mhz IIRC

[14:47:51] <Okona> i removed the graphics card from this system a long time ago (-:

[14:48:13] <Okona> and the bios does not support serial usage...

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[14:50:08] <nachox> the mobile athlon xp with that cpuid is 1300 mhz

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[14:52:11] <Okona> hmm

[14:52:14] <_Lewellyn> nice. there's a variety of possibilities. even 1830 MHz

[14:52:56] <nachox> http://www.myplc.com/sony/docs/amd_processor_reference.html

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[14:55:25] <Okona> i highly doubt it is a mobile Athlon. IIRC the bios says something about 2100MHz

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[15:31:43] <FastJack> nice! http://www.c0t0d0s0.org/archives/5415-ZFS-visualized.html

[15:32:00] <asyd> lack of explanations however imho

[15:32:09] <rno> Hi there

[15:32:18] <rno> My drives are well slow

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[15:32:26] <rno> and checking /var/adm/message

[15:32:30] <rno> I found this entry

[15:32:38] <rno>  kern.info] NOTICE: IRQ19 is being shared by drivers with different interrupt levels.

[15:32:41] <rno> This may result in reduced system performance.

[15:32:59] <rno> I've checked on the BIOS and not sure what to do...

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[15:33:32] <asyd> do you have some disk controllers which are not on the motherboard?

[15:33:39] <rno> yes

[15:35:08] <asyd> hmm ok, well try to rserv an IRQ for this card

[15:35:20] <asyd> can't remember exactly how to achieve that, and it's bios dependant anyway

[15:35:33] <rno> At least it's a good place to start

[15:35:47] <rno> do you have any good doc about IRQ

[15:36:06] <rno> In fact I'm not sure to fully understand what they stand for

[15:36:52] <rno> My understanding is physical allocation ID but can't see why this could be an issue when shared

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[15:37:40] <asyd> irq shaing on disk controller is not a good idea

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[15:39:22] <rno> Looks like...

[15:39:31] <rno> Got raidz2

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[15:39:36] <rno> and I moved disk

[15:39:54] <rno> and the speed realy dropped!

[15:40:07] <rno> I will have a look at this

[15:40:11] <rno> thx for the tips!

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[15:58:34] <tynar> hi, I am developing simple tftp client application, and want to test it. Does Solaris provide a simple tftp server? Or is there any public tftp server for testing?

[15:59:13] <rno> tynar: I'm using blastwave if I can't find what I want

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[15:59:20] <rno> it's pretty straight forward

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[15:59:53] <rno> http://www.blastwave.org/docs/s10u3_howto.html

[16:00:03] <rno> it's working with opensolaris as well

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[16:00:13] <tynar> rno: I have used blastwave, but I gived up

[16:00:21] <rno> Oh why?

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[16:00:39] <dunz0r> can someone tell me if opensolaris supports luks-encrypted disks?

[16:00:41] <tynar> rno: Since Sun provides many popular packages

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[16:01:05] <rno> It's true the new pkg command provide so many package

[16:01:10] <rno> but still missing some...

[16:01:24] <IvanR_> tynar: Yes, there's the SUNWtftp package, has both the client and server.

[16:01:37] <rno> Just run

[16:01:38] <dunz0r> or rather luksencrypted partitions

[16:01:44] <rno> pkg search -r tftp

[16:01:48] <rno> and here you go

[16:01:52] <rno> SUNWtftp at 0 dot 5.11-0.101

[16:02:14] <tynar> IvanR_: I have looked to tfpt, but can you provide some info on configuring it like server

[16:03:01] <rno> dunz0r: There is a zfs encryption project

[16:03:14] <rno> but I don't think available yet

[16:03:38] <rno> http://opensolaris.org/os/project/zfs-crypto/

[16:03:59] <dunz0r> well. atm I don't need encryption for ZFS

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[16:04:32] <rno> That the only one I'm aware off

[16:04:37] <dunz0r> I'm thinking of trying out opensolaris. And a lot of my partitions at my workstation are encrypted.

[16:04:54] <xRaich[o]2x> dunz0r: i don't think you will be very lucky here

[16:05:01] <dunz0r> :(

[16:05:11] <IvanR_> tynar: What distribution are you running?  There should be a manpage for "in.tftpd", but looking on my opensolaris install it doesn't have the line in inetd.conf

[16:05:11] <xRaich[o]2x> afaik there is no luks support for opensolaris

[16:05:13] <dunz0r> I'll have to install it in VM then

[16:05:17] <dunz0r> ty ty

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[16:11:19] <cidco> anyone know of away to have your system email if errors are found in zfs?

[16:11:51] <cidco> i setup a weekly cron job to scrub the pools but id like to know if the array is degraded.

[16:12:11] <Stric> zpool status -xv    will say if there's any problems or if everything is ok

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[16:13:42] <cidco> wonder if i could direct that to an email or something

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[16:14:30] <tynar> IvanR_: I have configured tftp, and the udp6 svc is running, I tested by getting file on /export/home/user/1.log to /export/home/user/2.log. But I get Acess Violation error. Do you know what I am doing wrong?

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[16:30:31] <tynar> what is the default directory for tftp ?

[16:31:05] <fraggeln>  /tftpboot ? :)

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[16:34:31] <tynar> fraggeln : I rebooted machine and everything is working fine :)

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[16:41:25] <tynar> fraggeln: I can get file from /tftpboot, but can't write to there. I have chmoded it to 777, what can be the reason?

[16:43:23] <seanmcg> man in.tftpd will tell you

[16:43:51] <seanmcg> Files may be written only if they already exist Files may be written only if they already exist

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[16:52:40] <telpochyaotl> hi all! How bad would it be to use OpenSolaris for production in Amazon EC2?

[16:53:16] <RandalSchwartz> i'm going to be doing that soon

[16:53:22] <RandalSchwartz> ec2

[16:54:00] <telpochyaotl> I noticed there are OpenSolaris images there so I'm wondering if it is advisable to use it (i love it) for production like stuff

[16:57:17] <RandalSchwartz> ec2 has been around for a long time relatively

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[16:57:26] <RandalSchwartz> solaeis even longer

[16:57:41] <CosmicDJ> telpochyaotl: why is that bad?

[16:57:42] <RandalSchwartz> production use not a problem, i presume

[16:58:33] <CIA-33> Ali Bahrami <Ali.Bahrami at Sun dot COM>: 6818012 nm tries to modify readonly segment and dumps core

[16:58:45] <telpochyaotl> CosmicDJ: not that I think it is bad... I'm wondering if people consider OpenSolaris good for production stuff, as I want to use it.

[16:59:33] <tynar> seanmcg: I tried by touching junk.txt in /tftpboot, and putting junk.txt from different machine

[16:59:34] <CosmicDJ> telpochyaotl: there's support for it (http://www.sun.com/service/opensolaris/index.jsp), so I'd say sun considers it production ready

[16:59:42] <tynar> seanmcg: no success

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[17:00:51] <seanmcg> tynar, does junk.txt have the right permissions ?  i.e. is it writable by say the user nobody ?

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[17:02:26] <telpochyaotl> CosmicDJ: awesome... Thanks!

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[17:02:57] <tynar> seanmcg: I couldn't realize that. thanks

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[17:03:27] <nettezzaumana> hi all

[17:03:32] <nettezzaumana> would someone tell me the trick, which format manpages in solaris like in the right window here `http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/4894/mand.png`, which is solaris manpage viewed on Linux host .. in the left window is xforwarded terminal from solaris server and *native look of same manpage in solaris

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[17:06:00] <CosmicDJ> nettezzaumana: you want bold words under solaris, too?

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[17:08:20] <nettezzaumana> CosmicDJ: yes

[17:08:34] <nettezzaumana> CosmicDJ: i just want to see manpages like linux prints them

[17:08:53] <nettezzaumana> co column width is set by physical terminal

[17:09:15] <nettezzaumana> and manpage is not divided into numbered pages like for print

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[17:09:53] <nettezzaumana> CosmicDJ: on the screenshot you saw is same manpoage (same file) viewed by mancommand in solaris and Linux

[17:10:16] <nettezzaumana> CosmicDJ: Linux shows it exactly as i want to order solaris to show it

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[17:10:43] <g4lt-lappy> as in, not how the troff interpreter wants to format it

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[17:16:43] <_Lewellyn> you'd have to use groff to get it to output man pages in gnu style

[17:16:57] <_Lewellyn> i forget how to invoke groff for man page generation, however

[17:18:02] <g4lt-lappy> no sane person would WANT to

[17:19:20] <nachox> the docs guys might

[17:21:39] <xRaich[o]2x> nettezzaumana: use less as pager and set the env variables to get the desired output

[17:21:57] <xRaich[o]2x> you can even use color in your manpages of you want

[17:22:48] <nettezzaumana> xRaich[o]2x: huh. i use less for pager ;) .. it can be seen from my screenshot .. pager has nothing to do with how troff/nroff formats manpage

[17:22:51] <g4lt-lappy> ewwwww

[17:23:00] <g4lt-lappy> view is my pager ;P

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[17:23:30] <nettezzaumana> _Lewellyn: okok .. i'll try groff

[17:24:25] <nachox> oh, cool i have never used zones in osol 2008.11, they seem to be really small things

[17:25:55] <_Lewellyn> nettezzaumana: um. yeah. you can have less format manpages, itself, iirc.

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[17:27:46] <nettezzaumana> _Lewellyn: how please

[17:27:54] <nettezzaumana> _Lewellyn: i can't figure it out

[17:27:58] <_Lewellyn> i dunno. *shrug*

[17:28:03] <_Lewellyn> ask xRaich[o]2x :)

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[17:29:32] <e^ipi> nachox: you can also use them off clones, so a zone can take up 100k or so plus data

[17:30:00] <e^ipi> they're pretty cheap on compute resources as well

[17:30:34] <mmu_man> hmmm http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/opensound/ can anyone explain me the rationale behind wasting time into a bastardized OS-specific version of OSS ?

[17:30:39] <nachox> that is if i have more than one non-global zone, but that is true even in sxce iirc

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[17:30:48] <e^ipi> correct

[17:31:00] <e^ipi> i create a template which I don't use for anything, and then hang zones off that

[17:31:02] <mmu_man> one of the strenghts in OSS is it's cross-platform, meaning more ppl use it = more ppl will contribute fixes.

[17:31:10] <mmu_man> which is why I ported it to BeOS and Haiku...

[17:31:12] <mmu_man> oh well

[17:31:55] <e^ipi> well, that came out of nowhere

[17:32:05] <nachox> mmu_man, i dont know what you mean, would you rather import into solaris software that is pooly written and does not perform properly at the expense of keeping portability?

[17:32:20] <e^ipi> nachox: we already have OSS, and it works fine

[17:32:42] <mmu_man> nachox I'd say if it's poorly written fix it :p

[17:33:02] <mmu_man> but it works not so bad here, I get sound off my ATI IXP crapset under BeOS

[17:33:04] <nachox> e^ipi, we have a modified version of OSS which addresses the issues brought up

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[17:33:34] <mmu_man> http://revolf.free.fr/beos/shot_haiku_oss_working.003.png :)

[17:33:53] <mmu_man> why not just contribute the fixes to OSS then

[17:33:57] <mmu_man> instead of forking

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[17:34:15] <e^ipi> you download the solaris version of OSS directly from 4front

[17:34:17] <e^ipi> ...

[17:34:39] <e^ipi> what the hell are we talking about oss for?

[17:34:43] <mmu_man> yes but as I've read boomer is supposed to be a fork

[17:34:51] <mmu_man> or maybe I missed something

[17:35:07] <e^ipi> boomer's a completely different thing AFAIK, with OSS programming interfaces

[17:35:09] <asyd> if they are some zsh lovers here, take a look at http://zshwiki.org/home/zen

[17:35:38] <e^ipi> so it's OSS from xmms's point of view, but it's really nothing alike

[17:35:55] <e^ipi> i could be wrong here though

[17:35:57] <mmu_man> IIRC it is supposed to be forked from OSS at some point

[17:36:06] <mmu_man> I recall having the PDF somewhere

[17:36:13] <mmu_man> and Hannu is the one to work on it...

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[17:36:39] <IvanR_> mmu_man: I believe boomer is fully compatible with the OSS API, so OSS drivers should still work.

[17:36:57] <nachox> nah, they are modified 4front sources, there is a gstreamer plugin too in the mix, they also added a personality for sun's legacy audio api iirc

[17:37:03] <mmu_man> oh well, maybe you have enough devs to spend on this, I'm used to not having time as there are so many things to do in Haiku :)

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[17:37:38] <mmu_man> IvanR_ ok, well I don't really see the difference from fixing the existing Solaris HAL in OSS4

[17:38:16] <mmu_man> appart forking

[17:38:18] <mmu_man> anyway

[17:38:19] <g4lt-lappy> did someone just mentikon HAL in relation to solaris without breaking up in gales of laughter?

[17:38:22] <IvanR_> http://gdamore.blogspot.com/2008/12/boomer-beta-source-code-posted.html

[17:38:28] <mmu_man> asyd hey, how goes it ? :)

[17:38:29] <nachox> i'm sure sun will contribute the fixes to the oss guys

[17:38:42] <IvanR_> Read Garrett's follow up comment, he's the one doing the work on boomer

[17:38:54] <mmu_man> asyd I still need to try zsh actually, I maintain a BeOS port but never actually used it :p

[17:38:59] <asyd> hey mmu_manm, you're here?! :) wann take a look into a real os ?

[17:39:07] <asyd> huhu

[17:39:14] <mmu_man> tssk :)

[17:39:15] <nachox> e^ipi, anyway, i was thinking of using a zone to play with the sun communication stuff, the other option is to download the demo virtualbox virtual machine i guess

[17:39:31] <mmu_man> I still have to find a box to install this opensolaris cd

[17:39:41] <mmu_man> + I promised to try BSD too :D

[17:40:00] <flyingparchment> "MIDI support is not a priority for us right now. It is unlikely that will ever change... there just isn't that much call for it anymore." <- i guess solaris will continue to suck as an audio platform for a long time into the future then ;)

[17:40:02] <nettezzaumana> xRaich[o]2x: would you please take a look at my man page issue and try to say, what needs to be done to see manpage like on Linux host ??

[17:40:08] <mmu_man> IvanR_ anyway, I just hope for you it just ends up too wasteful

[17:40:14] <nettezzaumana> xRaich[o]2x: and its not about less

[17:40:33] <jbk> flyingparchment: it doesn't mean someone else couldn't work on it

[17:40:35] <nettezzaumana> xRaich[o]2x: once again `http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/4894/mand.png`

[17:40:40] <Stric> flyingparchment: yeah.. everyone using audio on computers is using midi..

[17:41:05] <nachox> flyingparchment, look at timidity++ in opensolaris-arc

[17:41:06] <flyingparchment> Stric: what else are you going to use to control external audio devices?

[17:41:12] <mmu_man> asyd would you be interested in writing zsh completion for BeOS/Haiku ? I wrote some beosish bash_completion stuff (like completing driver names on /bin/rescan, ...) but I don't know much about zsh yet

[17:41:14] <Stric> flyingparchment: they are called speakers :)

[17:41:15] <xRaich[o]2x> nettezzaumana: if it's not about less i don't know what you are trying to do. from what i saw it's possible to do the same with less setting some environment variables. check man less

[17:41:35] <e^ipi> flyingparchment: don't most musicians ( the people that would want midi ) use macs anyhow?

[17:41:36] <flyingparchment> Stric: i'm talking about proper audio work, not just playing mp3s

[17:41:41] <e^ipi> occasionally windows but mostly macs

[17:42:00] <xRaich[o]2x> who would use midi on solaris?

[17:42:03] <asyd> mmu_man: well, I'm crious about the number of zsh users on beos :) I don't have lot of free time, so writning completions used by only few people .. :/

[17:42:04] <e^ipi> i've never seen a recording studio without a macpro in the background

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[17:42:29] <mmu_man> asyd likely 1 - 1 = 0 :)

[17:42:34] <_Lewellyn> xRaich[o]2x: someone who wants to play with cakewalk on windows 3.1 with their game port hooked up to their solaris box? ;)

[17:42:36] <nettezzaumana> xRaich[o]2x: i'm trying to NOT have solaris manpages in thin column splitted into numbered pages

[17:43:27] <xRaich[o]2x> _Lewellyn: that person needs a GF... seriously

[17:43:34] <nettezzaumana> xRaich[o]2x: you said before something about less, but i can't figure it out .. i provided you screenshot .. i thing that it is about nroff/troff/groff formatting

[17:43:54] <xRaich[o]2x> nettezzaumana: i'm afraid i can't help you

[17:44:18] <nachox> hmm, do any sound blaster include separate midi hardware these days? i think everything is software based now

[17:44:25] <mmu_man> asyd I'm not even sure, are they written always as shell code or in C ?

[17:44:29] <_Lewellyn> xRaich[o]2x: i don't disagree, and it was the only thing to come to mind

[17:44:29] <flyingparchment> e^ipi: well, as long as you say "solaris sucks for X, therefore noone uses solaris for X, therefore we will never do any work on making X work better", X will always suck

[17:44:42] <asyd> mmu_man: shell

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[17:44:48] <nettezzaumana> xRaich[o]2x: ok.. one last question .. manpages on your computer looks like manpage on left or right in my screenshot

[17:44:51] <nettezzaumana> ?

[17:45:00] <flyingparchment> nachox: most mid/high end PC sound cards include midi ports

[17:45:01] <xRaich[o]2x> left

[17:45:07] <_Lewellyn> flyingparchment: and why try to find people who know about X if no one's likely to use X?

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[17:45:19] <flyingparchment> _Lewellyn: uh, what?

[17:45:22] <xRaich[o]2x> i didn't change the look of my manpages

[17:45:25] <nettezzaumana> xRaich[o]2x: ok .. so we both probably need to fix it .. ;) thanks

[17:45:44] <nettezzaumana> xRaich[o]2x: okok .. i thought that you've got it like i want

[17:45:47] <_Lewellyn> flyingparchment: how many people in the opensolaris community are familiar with midi's "plumbing"?

[17:46:01] <flyingparchment> _Lewellyn: it's not a complicated standard

[17:46:04] <_Lewellyn> and the quirks of various devices over the years that'll have to be supported?

[17:46:12] <nachox> flyingparchment, that doesnt mean it's hardware is doing more than routing midi requests somewhere else... like software :P again

[17:46:18] <_Lewellyn> i know roland broke spec numerous times and other devices have as well

[17:46:23] <flyingparchment> nachox: or to/from your external synth, midi keyboard, etc

[17:46:50] <_Lewellyn> flyingparchment: if it matters to you, add the support. you have the sources :)

[17:47:03] <flyingparchment> it doesn't matter to me, i just think it's a poor attitude

[17:47:12] <flyingparchment> because saying "no one uses midi now we have software synths" is cleary wrong

[17:47:36] <nachox> _Lewellyn, damn, you wrote "roland" and i instantly thought of ksh, and was wondering when roland ever did such thing as breaking a standard :P

[17:47:44] <xRaich[o]2x> i don't see a point in using midi on solaris...

[17:47:46] <_Lewellyn> i think it's a realistic attitude. "we aren't likely to see many people even look at the os for midi work, so the manhours are best spent otherwise"

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[17:48:08] <flyingparchment> _Lewellyn: that's not what he said

[17:48:14] <xRaich[o]2x> i wouldn't use midi on linux let alone on solaris

[17:48:25] <flyingparchment> if they considered adding midi and decided against it because it wouldn't be used much on that platform, that's one thing

[17:48:27] <Stric> flyingparchment: On the other hand, I think it's better to make the product better in the market its already in.. compared to trying to create a market..

[17:48:41] <_Lewellyn> flyingparchment: there also *isn't* nearly as much in the way of midi equipment anymore

[17:48:45] <_Lewellyn> this isn't 1988 anymore

[17:49:07] <xRaich[o]2x> _Lewellyn: there sure is midi stuff out there. my guitar rig is pretty full of it

[17:49:09] <jbk> most anything electronic still uses it

[17:49:56] <_Lewellyn> meh, regardless. i see this as a non-issue, personally.

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[17:50:12] <_Lewellyn> i'd rather see the manhours spent on other things

[17:50:15] <xRaich[o]2x> midi on solaris doesn't make any sense to me

[17:50:33] <jbk> yeah, as i said if someone else is interested, i don't see why they'd not welcome the addition

[17:50:38] <_Lewellyn> unless someone actually wants to see midi hardware supported on solaris, it doesn't make sense to devote time to it

[17:51:30] <flyingparchment> i wish 'cal 4' showed April, instead of the year 4

[17:51:40] <_Lewellyn> hahaha

[17:52:19] <_Lewellyn> i wish 'cal 9 1752' showed the whole month :P

[17:52:36] <holcomb> wassup with that?

[17:52:45] <flyingparchment> holcomb: calendar changed

[17:52:45] <_Lewellyn> holcomb: history :)

[17:52:50] <holcomb> crazy.

[17:52:57] <flyingparchment> (from julian to gregorian, i think?)

[17:52:57] <_Lewellyn> it was a leap month ;)

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[17:53:23] <_Lewellyn> or leap fortnight?

[17:54:21] <flyingparchment> hmm, i also wish solaris cal did the thing gnu cal does, where it highlights today on the output.  maybe i'll file an rfe

[17:55:01] <nachox> i didnt even know there was a cal program :P

[17:55:18] <CosmicDJ> there is even a calendar program

[17:56:11] <nachox> so many wasted disk space

[17:56:15] <nachox> *much

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[17:56:46] <g4lt-lappy> yeah, that's a nice RFE reason "it isn't like linsux"

[17:57:17] <holcomb> that's not one of the pull-down selections when filing one?  i figured it would be by now

[17:57:21] <CosmicDJ> nachox: 10k uhh ahh

[17:57:26] <CosmicDJ> kb

[17:57:30] <nachox> hehe

[17:57:41] <flyingparchment> g4lt-lappy: so you think useful new features shouldn't be added, just because linux added them first?

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[17:58:22] <CosmicDJ> flyingparchment: I think comand line utilities should remain KISS, you want the current date, run date

[17:58:32] <g4lt-lappy> flyingparchment, no, I think the utility of a feature isn't defiend by linsux

[17:58:33] <flyingparchment> CosmicDJ: i don't want the current date, i want a calendar

[17:58:39] <CIA-33> Daniel Beauregard <Daniel.Beauregard at Sun dot COM>: 6676294 PCIEX-8000-5Y Critical error is shown at every boot, 6709814 qlc firmware table should end with a zeroed entry, 6741218 qlc should buffer extended logging messages in host memory at all times, 6743794 qlc source file for mdb module should use angle brackets for include instead of double-quotes, 6751834 Firmware dump and debug messages should be made available through mdb dcmd, 6755226 qlc

[17:58:45] <flyingparchment> g4lt-lappy: where did anyone say it was?

[17:58:50] <CosmicDJ> flyingparchment: cal looks like a calendar to me

[17:58:54] <flyingparchment> g4lt-lappy: gnu has this feature, i think it's useful, therefore i would like solaris to have it

[17:59:03] <flyingparchment> CosmicDJ: yes, and often when looking at a calendar, it's useful to know where today is

[17:59:38] <CosmicDJ> flyingparchment: hm no, as I said, I use date for that

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[18:00:03] <flyingparchment> CosmicDJ: okay, so you can run date, then run cal.  or you can have the current date shown in cal.  personally i think the latter is more useful.  (you're free to disagree, of course)

[18:01:05] <CosmicDJ> calendar: "a chart or series of pages showing the days, weeks, and months of a particular year, or giving particular seasonal information."

[18:02:03] <CosmicDJ> nothing about "shows current date"

[18:02:08] <flyingparchment> ...

[18:02:11] <nicoatsun> sticky keys is going nuts on my desktop

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[18:02:30] <Asad2005> i am planning to install opensolaris for ZFS raidz. My current set up is raid 5 on ubuntu server. I am new to BSD and not sure if this is right for me. Is it easy to set up raidz and share as NFS with free open solaris ?

[18:02:49] <CosmicDJ> Asad2005: no, no... and no

[18:03:07] <Asad2005> CosmicDJ,  Why ?

[18:03:21] <CosmicDJ> Asad2005: you can't install opensolaris on raidz

[18:03:37] <flyingparchment> Asad2005: BSD?  wrong channel

[18:03:52] <nachox> opensolaris is not a bsd os

[18:04:02] <nachox> you can only mirror your / with zfs

[18:04:13] <brett_> CosmicDJ: where 'install' means 'boot from' ;)

[18:04:15] <Asad2005> I will install on a separate disk and create ZFS raidz on the other drives

[18:04:33] <nachox> you can however install the os on a separate disk and create a raidz with the rest of the drives

[18:04:55] <brett_> Asad2005: to answer your question, yes, getting opensolaris setup as a filer is trivial.

[18:04:58] <nachox> and sharing it through nfs and cifs needs exactly 1 extra command

[18:05:11] <Asad2005> nachox, How about sharing with NFS

[18:05:23] <Asad2005> ok thanks

[18:05:29] <nachox> 1 shorter extra command :P

[18:06:55] <Asad2005> I have experimented a little with zfs-fuse on ubuntu but could not share it as NFS so i think i will try to switch to opensolaris and see

[18:07:45] <nachox> zfs set sharenfs=on myzpool/test

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[18:07:56] <g4lt-lappy> and grepping the zpool manpage for nfs never crossed your mind?

[18:08:00] <nachox> that is the extra command :P

[18:08:20] <tsoome> linux people cant read man

[18:08:23] <g4lt-lappy> nachox, suuure, give them the wussyboy way out

[18:08:26] <tsoome> :P

[18:08:29] <Asad2005> yes but that did not work in ubuntu

[18:08:46] <g4lt-lappy> tsoome, Ithink we established that WRT troff/groff discussion about an hour ago

[18:08:54] <xRaich[o]2x> Asad2005: don't compare zfs-fuse with real zfs ;)

[18:09:01] <tsoome> :D

[18:09:02] <nachox> g4lt-lappy, *blush*

[18:09:32] <_Lewellyn> RE: cal, at&t's cal doesn't do anything special to today's date either

[18:09:50] <_Lewellyn> nor does osx's nor freebsd's.

[18:10:02] <_Lewellyn> so that's a gnuism that is probably as portable as color ls :P

[18:10:05] <Asad2005> xRaich[o]2x, yes am not comparing and thats why i wanted to test real zfs. Many thanks

[18:10:11] <g4lt-lappy> _Lewellyn, solaris's IS AT&T IIRC

[18:10:21] <_Lewellyn> g4lt-lappy: i meant current at&t

[18:10:32] <_Lewellyn>   version         cal (The Regents of the University of California) 1994-04-02

[18:10:35] <nachox> _Lewellyn, someone ported ls's colors to solaris ls :) jbk maybe?

[18:10:48] <g4lt-lappy> hmmm, looks like IDRC

[18:10:49] <_Lewellyn> nachox: i thought that was gnu's ls ;)

[18:11:12] <_Lewellyn> g4lt-lappy: that was the output of cal --version on an at&t install :)

[18:11:18] <tsoome> oh no, no colors for ls plx...

[18:11:19] <g4lt-lappy> _Lewellyn, well, maybe it's in the "it's not like linsux" RFE P

[18:11:50] <nachox> _Lewellyn, nah, solaris engineers are trying to fool gnu guys into thinking they are using the gnu ls when they are using the much cooler solaris one :P

[18:11:53] <_Lewellyn> tsoome: i'm all for optional color in ls. provided it doesn't break non-color-enabled terminals ;)

[18:11:59] <nachox> so they had to port ls's colors

[18:12:38] <_Lewellyn> i still say that at&t's df is the best out there, though. too bad its output format hasn't made its way into opensolaris ;)

[18:12:42] <CosmicDJ> alias ls to ls -F and you don't need colors ;)

[18:12:46] <tsoome> i did see that linux ls output years ago. still recovering... :D

[18:12:55] <_Lewellyn> the  df (AT&T Research) 2005-04-06   version, that is

[18:13:27] <_Lewellyn> tsoome: ever done a color ls on a glass tty terminal type? :(

[18:13:35] <_Lewellyn> or better, on something like wyse60? :P

[18:13:52] <jbk> well

[18:13:57] <tsoome> i dont like self-torturing:D

[18:13:58] <jbk> there's an RFE for color ls

[18:14:00] <jbk> a webrev

[18:14:10] <jbk> and a completed arc template awaiting submission

[18:14:15] <trochej> Coffee

[18:14:20] <_Lewellyn> tsoome: many linux distros have it as default :P

[18:14:31] <tsoome> i dont use linux. at all.

[18:14:37] <tsoome> not by free will.

[18:14:40] <jbk> and it's such that running plain ls should see _no_ difference

[18:14:52] <trochej> I believe that color ls will be a killer attribution for OpenSolaris, thta will allow iit to overpower other operating systems

[18:14:53] <jbk> it won't even attempt to query the terminal type unless you enable color

[18:14:57] <nachox> jbk, so it was you? :)

[18:15:07] <jbk> i got sick of the arguments

[18:15:15] <jbk> it was like a few hours worth of work to add it

[18:15:24] <jbk> including learning the necessary low level termcap stuff

[18:15:29] <trochej> jbk: I owe you a coffee :)

[18:15:37] <jbk> well now just need to get it putback

[18:15:47] <flyingparchment> jbk: but don't you know that solaris can't add any features that a) some people don't like, even if they're optional, or b) linux had first?

[18:15:59] <jbk> though if you're anxious, you can build it yourself

[18:16:03] <_Lewellyn> jbk: so you mean i won't see more things like this? :D

[18:16:05] <_Lewellyn> 0m0mmoduli0m  0mssh_config0m  0mssh_host_dsa_key0m  0mssh_host_dsa_key.pub0m  0mssh_host_rsa_key0m  0mssh_host_rsa_key.pub0m

[18:16:21] <tsoome> .oO :D

[18:16:38] <jbk> well if you set your term type incorrectly, use ls --color=always, and then run on a term that doesn't support it, you could

[18:16:42] <_Lewellyn> that's what gnu's ls does on a non-ansi terminal :P

[18:16:59] <Stric> _Lewellyn: with $TERM that lies?

[18:17:03] <jbk> if the terminfo is correct (which may or may not for the terminal type)

[18:17:06] <_Lewellyn> Stric: nope. wyse60

[18:17:10] <jbk> it actually uses the terminfo data

[18:17:29] <jbk> i wouldn't be surprised of gnu ls actually jsut spit out the raw escape sequences

[18:17:33] <jbk> (I haven't looked)

[18:17:37] <_Lewellyn> that's what it does, afaict

[18:17:43] <nachox> nice

[18:17:49] <_Lewellyn> lynx does the right thing

[18:18:01] <nachox> i always love my screen full of garbage :)

[18:18:02] <jbk> the color ls info is more or less specified using the raw sequences (minus the esc[)

[18:18:08] <_Lewellyn> i actually like using lynx on wyse60

[18:18:19] <jbk> does wyse60 support color?

[18:18:30] <_Lewellyn> nope

[18:18:39] <jbk> then it shouldn't spit out color codes

[18:18:40] <_Lewellyn> reverse and underline's about it :D

[18:18:48] <jbk> though it could utilize reverse or underline

[18:18:54] <jbk> if terminfo supplies the data

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[18:19:07] <_Lewellyn> gnu ls doesn't care about your terminal type. everyone is running TERM=linux or TERM=xterm anyhow ;)

[18:19:08] <flyingparchment> jbk: does it emit blue text on a green background by default?

[18:19:21] <jbk> no

[18:19:25] <_Lewellyn> or dark blue on black ground? :P

[18:19:37] <jbk> it assumes the default background color

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[18:20:39] <nachox> i hate smb in gnome...

[18:20:42] <flyingparchment> where did all the categories on bugs.opensolaris.org go?  the only utility available is utility/raidcfg

[18:20:46] <_Lewellyn> is this new color ls easily compilable on solaris 10? i'll test it against a few term types right now :D

[18:20:48] <eviljames> nachox: s/in/and/

[18:20:57] <g4lt-lappy> one day, I'm going to set my term background such that color ls will actually be unreadable

[18:20:57] <nachox> hehe

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[18:21:15] <_Lewellyn> g4lt-lappy: dark blue, on a gnu ls box ;)

[18:21:16] <jbk> http://cr.opensolaris.org/~jbk/ls/

[18:21:39] <flyingparchment> _Lewellyn: if your default background is black, and you can't read one of the ANSI colours on your default background, it sounds like the terminal is set up wrong..

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[18:21:40] <jbk> _Lewellyn: hmm not sure -- the extended attribute / nfsv4 acl stuff might utilize some private interfaces

[18:21:59] <_Lewellyn> flyingparchment: it's certainly not comfortable reading low-contrast for a directory of files :P

[18:22:27] <_Lewellyn> jbk: i want the "Raw"?

[18:22:46] <flyingparchment> _Lewellyn: i increase the brightness of the dark colours so they're still distinct, but easily readable

[18:22:47] <jbk> that'd be a compilable .c file

[18:23:19] <trichobezoar> Has anybody here compiled js-1.7.0.tar.gz on sol x86

[18:23:30] <jbk> there are a number of other gnu flags that it implements as well

[18:24:13] <_Lewellyn> flyingparchment: i choose white on black for a reason. i don't need to read a dir of blue on black. no matter what you say, the contrast isn't the same :P

[18:24:23] <tsoome> i hope there is an update for ls manpage as well?;)

[18:24:32] <g4lt-lappy> like --this-is-a-damn-long-flag?

[18:24:38] <flyingparchment> _Lewellyn: well, don't enable colour ls then

[18:24:52] <tsoome>  --what-flag-you-wann-have-tomorrow

[18:24:54] <g4lt-lappy> tsoome, in bold?

[18:25:26] <jbk> yes, they're of course optional

[18:25:32] <jbk> there are only so many letterrs

[18:25:50] <jbk> a number of cases it's just adding long aliases to existing flags

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[18:25:52] <g4lt-lappy> not for GNU

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[18:26:06] <g4lt-lappy> they just add the second dash and make entire word flags

[18:26:35] <jbk> the only ones that _must_ be long options are color, block-size, full-time, si, file-type, and time-style

[18:27:12] <g4lt-lappy> one is more than enough

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[18:27:17] <_Lewellyn> jbk: CC ls.c?

[18:27:21] <jbk> cc

[18:27:30] <jbk> it's not c++ code

[18:27:30] <g4lt-lappy> gcc prolly ;P

[18:27:56] <_Lewellyn> same errors either way :P

[18:28:04] <jbk> probably missing header files

[18:28:16] <g4lt-lappy> _Lewellyn, no, gcc will give you entirely new errors

[18:28:29] <jbk> you _might_ be able to compile it on SXCE, and run it on s10

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[18:28:40] <jbk> you sometimes (but not always) able to get away with that

[18:28:40] <_Lewellyn> g4lt-lappy: just tried that, too. funner errors from gcc :D

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[18:29:01] <_Lewellyn> jbk: yeah. s10 dislikes this file greatly :P

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[18:29:23] <jbk> i think it's using some private interfaces (nothing I added, just the existing code)

[18:29:43] <_Lewellyn> first error is "ls.c", line 68: cannot find include file: <aclutils.h>

[18:29:49] <jbk> i wouldn't be surprised if one had a copy of the S10 tree if it the diff could be applied and it'd build

[18:30:03] <jbk> i doubt ls has had a lot of work done on it recently

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[18:30:15] <trichobezoar> It seems that js 1.7 only has configurations for sparc

[18:30:17] <jbk> yeah..

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[18:32:39] <trichobezoar> how miserable

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[18:36:49] <nachox> now we only need to integrate star as tar and sfind as find ;)

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[18:36:59] <ikarius> hrmm. is there a way to tell solaris express to do a straight interactive text install and for it to not even try GUI install?

[18:37:12] <tsoome> yes

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[18:37:28] <ikarius> tsoome: could you enlighten me please?

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[18:37:46] <ikarius> this is SXCE b110

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[18:38:07] <tsoome> use nowin boot option

[18:38:13] <ikarius> thank you

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[18:39:27] <nachox> evening steleman, hows kde4 going? :)

[18:39:42] <steleman> hi nachox :-)

[18:39:46] <steleman> well it's afternoon here

[18:40:03] <steleman> but that's ok, not getting hung up on meaningless details :-)

[18:40:20] <steleman> kde4 is going OK, the build system has been severely b0rked

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[18:40:40] <steleman> i am trying to un-b0rk it

[18:40:48] <tsoome> nowin or test according to http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/820-4039/6nfhhqjuv?l=en&a=view&q=nowin

[18:40:51] <nachox> there is no chance of ips packages any time soon, right?

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[18:41:13] <steleman> nachox: Adriaan DeGroot [ the author of the b0rkage ] has IPS packages

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[18:41:31] <steleman> nachox: but he hosts them on a box which is down more often than up

[18:41:43] <steleman> nachox: hold on lemme find the link

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[18:41:58] <nachox> hehe, nice

[18:42:19] <nachox> i'll go on and create a new BE for it then, just to test it

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[18:43:09] <eviljames> Is it this Thursday that 110 goes to IPS?

[18:43:32] <ikarius> not sure what's going wrong, but SXCE gui initialization is simply hard freezing on a supermicro X7DWU motherboard- a simple 5400 intel chipset based Xeon chassis, with the built-in video

[18:43:45] <ikarius> trying it with the nowin parameter now.

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[18:44:22] <steleman> nachox: he took down the IPS repo

[18:44:28] <steleman> nachox: only SVR4 packages

[18:44:32] <steleman> http://solaris.bionicmutton.org/PKGS/

[18:45:24] <nachox> thanks steleman :)

[18:45:31] <steleman> nachox: yw :-0

[18:45:32] <steleman> :-)

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[18:48:29] <wbkang> I have an nfs shared zfs filesystem, with 777, everyone@:full_set:df:allow, but I get permission_denied everytime i try to mount it. any ideas?

[18:48:48] <flyingparchment> wbkang: mounting is nothing to do with file permissions

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[18:48:57] <flyingparchment> the server is refusing access to the client for some reason

[18:49:09] <wbkang> hmm, so I have

[18:49:17] <wbkang> zfs filesystems

[18:49:24] <wbkang> /storage

[18:49:24] <wbkang> /storage/home/wbkang

[18:49:33] <wbkang> all of them are shared nfs and smb

[18:49:38] <wbkang> there's also /storage/storage

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[18:50:01] <wbkang> mounting /storage works

[18:50:10] <wbkang> but mounting /storage/home/wbkang does not work

[18:50:38] <wbkang> neither I can access /storage/home/wbkang thru nfs-mounted /storage. whenever i do ls -l, i  get permission denied

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[18:51:43] <nachox> steleman, ok, i think downloading all those packages will take a while :P

[18:52:06] <steleman> nachox: yeah the whole thing is huge

[18:52:28] <nachox> wbkang, nfs does not work through filesystems iirc

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[18:53:49] <nachox> steleman, will it litter my /usr or it installs everything in a more sane location like say /usr/kde?

[18:54:01] <steleman> nachox: everything installs in /opt/foss

[18:54:03] <wbkang> nachox: what do you mean? i used zfs set sharenfs=on

[18:54:05] <ikarius> ok, so "nowin" worked to get me a text-install of SXCE.... is there any reasonable path for troubleshooting why the GUI install is hard-hanging the system?

[18:54:23] <steleman> nachox: we don't mess with /usr :-)

[18:54:34] <nachox> thank god

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[18:57:06] <nachox> wbkang, oh, i missread everything :P

[18:57:09] <wbkang> I get  nfs mount: mount: "target dir": Permission Denied

[18:57:12] <wbkang> lol

[18:58:05] <g4lt-lappy> and somehow this is the NFS server's problem?

[18:59:50] <CIA-33> Judy Chen <Judy.Chen at Sun dot COM>: 6821180 boot hangs on Sun Fire x4150 post /isa removal

[19:00:20] <wbkang> Well, it mounts the parent directory fine. and it gives me access denied to only my home dir

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[19:00:53] <wbkang> that nfs mount error message is a generic message occuring when mount failed, NOT that i have no permission in the target dir.

[19:01:23] <MrStamp> is there a way to list the contents of an installed package with pkg or pkginfo or some other command?

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[19:02:19] <asyd> hmm pkgchk -l iirc

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[19:05:22] <MrStamp> hmm, this doesn't seem right. Almost all of the packages I check with pkgchk say "package is installed but empty"

[19:07:04] <nachox> you're using opensolaris or sxce?

[19:08:19] <MrStamp> opensolaris

[19:08:40] <ottom> MrStamp: that's what happens if an IPS package is installed and has registered itself into the old SVR4 package mechanism in order to provide backwards compatibility

[19:08:56] <Okona> then do pkg contents <packagename> MrStamp

[19:10:31] <MrStamp> so the pkg and old pkg* commands are not compatible?

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[19:11:03] <Okona> MrStamp: yep, they are for completely different packaging systems

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[19:12:08] <nachox> see? there is a reason for everything :P

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[19:18:22] <MrStamp> I was wondering about this because I had installed synergy with pkgadd from pkg.unixzen.com and thought that the package formats were the same

[19:18:44] <Okona> both can be used on the same machine

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[19:22:32] <wbkang1> Oh well, restarting the server fixed it. Weird.

[19:24:02] <trichobezoar> anybody else experience zfs process/disk storms with time slider enabled?

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[19:24:20] <trichobezoar> it makes things unusable

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[19:26:08] <JWheeler> I think the act of taking a snapshot is an fsync generating operation.... so I guess if you have a lot of zfs's, it could create pauses

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[19:26:28] <JWheeler> I notice a very slight spike in cpu on the hour when it takes several at once, but nothing major

[19:27:08] <MrStamp> why is it that snapshots taken with Time Slider don't show up with zfs list?

[19:27:10] <sommerfeld> right, in order for the snapshot to be meaningful it needs to sync out pending writes before creating the snapshot.

[19:27:15] <sommerfeld> MrStamp: zfs list -t all

[19:27:39] <trichobezoar> the system would be idle if not for the snapshots.  it seems to cause anonymous memory to get swapped out

[19:28:01] <sommerfeld> it's not "snapshots created by Time Slider".  it's all snapshots that are excluded by default from zfs list unless you specify -t all

[19:28:17] <trichobezoar> for hours the disk activity would be max (until i reduced the number of filesystems to snapshot)

[19:29:35] <MrStamp> ah, I see now. I can do -t snapshot just to see the snapshots

[19:29:36] <trochej> Coffee

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[19:38:34] <hrist> no

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[19:41:32] <_Lewellyn> nocoffeeforyou

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[19:58:33] <CIA-33> Krishnendu Sadhukhan - Sun Microsystems <Krishnendu.Sadhukhan at Sun dot COM>: 6779994 clkset()'s RTC test is unreliable and error message misleading

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[19:59:16] <mega> hi

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[20:03:43] <prav33n> Hello

[20:04:05] <prav33n> I am writing a dtrace script and I have a question about aggregation and printa function

[20:04:17] <prav33n> I have an aggregation "    @peakActiveBuffers = max( activeBuffers );'

[20:04:44] <prav33n> And I am trying to print the value in the END probe using printa and formatted string

[20:04:53] <prav33n> Can someone give me an example of doing this?

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[20:05:15] <prav33n> printa( "Peak allocated buffers: %a", @peakActiveBuffers ); // I tried this and it doesn't print anything

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[20:07:44] <CosmicDJ> why %a ?

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[20:16:24] <prav33n> I solved the issue

[20:16:37] <prav33n> printa( "Peak allocated buffers: %@d\n", @peakActiveBuffers ); // This is the right format

[20:16:44] <prav33n> Thanks

[20:17:54] <sickness> how can you tell screen to go in utf8 mode/

[20:17:57] <sickness> ?

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[20:18:38] <brett_> sickness: screen -U

[20:19:15] <sickness> tnx

[20:19:54] <sickness> works fine :)))

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[20:20:49] <nicoatsun> doesn't screen use UTF-8 if your locale is a UTF-8 locale?

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[20:22:37] <trochej> I think the meeting can be taken off the topic. :)

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[20:23:46] <jbk> results are out

[20:23:54] <jbk> or in

[20:24:01] <sickness> I don't know I happen to have a running screen than change the terminals I connect from solaris xterm or from win32 putty and from osx iterm and so on...

[20:24:06] <sickness> dinner time

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[20:54:49] <nachox> nice, there is an acroread 9.1 for solaris x86 now

[20:55:04] <nachox> ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/reader/unix/9.x/9.1/enu/

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[21:32:47] <kimc> i found what caused the target numbers on the test machine to advance when the drives were replaced

[21:33:13] <kimc> turns out LSI SAS drives retain the target values in nvram

[21:33:31] <kimc> err SAS HBA's that is..

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[21:34:40] <kimc> so if you want to have the numbers begin with: c0t0d0 and not c0t4d0 you can reset the nvram on the HBA

[21:34:47] <kimc> hello mink

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[22:06:29] <nv23> hey all. I installed SUNWtftp and SUNWtftpr packages for tftp...for some reason the smf service for tftp is missing from the system

[22:06:29] <nv23> did i miss a package?

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[22:07:18] <nachox> are you using opensolaris or sxce?

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[22:07:52] <nv23> sxce

[22:07:59] <nv23> build 91

[22:08:14] <nv23> Nachox: x86

[22:08:24] <ikarius> ... that appears suboptimal.  transferring miniroot.x86 from a linux TFTP server when PXE booting SXCE takes nearly 5 minutes across a gigabit network

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[22:08:40] <ikarius> ....153 megabytes should NOT take 5 minutes to xfer.

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[22:09:15] <nv23> ikarius have you verified any nic or network issues? duplex setting, etc.. ?

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[22:09:52] <ikarius> nv23- I know the "server" is working full-duplex gig link speed.

[22:10:23] <ikarius> I haven't verified anything on the client-side.... it's an intel igb on-board NIC, nothing wierd.

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[22:11:09] <nv23> ikarius: take a look at the client, i had that issue before and it was a duplex setting on the switch when the server was auto_neg

[22:11:17] <ikarius> not sure how to go about verifying the client when it's a dumb layer-2 switch, and I'm in the boot process.

[22:11:48] <nv23> ahhh i gotcha.......your not going over any wan links right? same subnet, simple layer 2 switch?

[22:11:51] <ikarius> nv23- there something I can add to the grub line to specify speed/duplex?

[22:11:56] <ikarius> nv23: yes

[22:12:54] <nv23> linux box?

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[22:13:05] <ikarius> linux server boots pxelinux, I pick pxegrub from my options, it boots pxegrub, presents the SXCE list, I pick the Solaris Express option, and I see the dots pop in about one dot every 15 seconds

[22:13:09] <nv23> sudo ethtool eth0   should give u ur dumpex setting

[22:13:23] <nv23> ahh i get what ur doin

[22:13:25] <nv23> hmmm

[22:13:26] <ikarius> linux box is a dell 1950 running broadcom NIC

[22:13:35] <flyingparchment> ikarius: over GE, you should have several dots per second

[22:13:47] <ikarius> flyingparchment- I agree

[22:13:50] <nv23> not sure how to echo out the duplex and nic settings via grub

[22:14:00] <nv23> but it should be going a lot faster then that, thats slower then local cd install

[22:14:11] <ikarius> MUCH slower than local CD install

[22:14:52] <nv23> can i swap to a different nic? the 1950's have (2) nics

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[22:14:56] <nv23> also verify the cable?

[22:15:06] <nv23> oops can u swap :-)

[22:15:06] <ikarius> I do linux network installs off the same linux server all day long, they cruise along full speed

[22:16:01] <ikarius> in point of fact, I tested doing a linux install onto the same HW I'm now attempting to install SXCE on, and it was just fine speed-wise

[22:16:25] <nv23> anyone have any ideas to my issue? SUNWtftp and SUNWtftpr are installed but the smf service is no where to be found, did i miss a package?

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[22:16:43] <ikarius> nv23- did you reboot the box?

[22:16:46] <flyingparchment> i've never seen that on any of our 1950s

[22:17:07] <nv23> ikarius: reboot the server? no

[22:17:10] <ikarius> nv23- if you dont want to reboot the box, you may need to tell SMF to parse the manifest

[22:17:27] <nv23> if i reboot the smf will come up?

[22:17:34] <ikarius> nv23 I forget the command to do that, but it will parse any new manifests automatically when the box reboots

[22:17:53] <nv23> it should to the svccfg import during the package install

[22:17:58] <nv23> lemme reboot see what happens

[22:18:32] <ikarius> nv23: I recall having trouble with a newly installed service not showing up until I either rebooted or told it to import the manifest manually

[22:18:53] <flyingparchment> if you install from a properly built package, it'll import the manifest automatically

[22:18:57] <nv23> odd thing is /var/svc/manifest/network has no tftp file in there

[22:19:01] <flyingparchment> if not, you have to do it by hand, it doesn't monitor the directory for updates

[22:19:13] <nv23> hmm

[22:19:35] <flyingparchment> nv23: do you have a tftp line in /etc/inetd.conf?  uncomment it, run inetconf

[22:19:42] <flyingparchment> (that's the case on S10, but i don't have SX here to check)

[22:19:45] <ikarius> flyingparchment: I've never installed a package from anywhere besides the osol production repository

[22:19:57] <nv23> yea this is off the cd

[22:20:00] <flyingparchment> inetconv, not inetconf

[22:20:12] <nv23> lemme check....the package was from a b109 build and im using b91

[22:20:18] <nv23> lemme see if that screwed it up

[22:21:51] <flyingparchment> why did you install it from a different build? (and did you check inetd.conf?)

[22:22:02] <nv23> cus i got mixed up :-)

[22:22:08] <nv23> lemme check inetd after i look at this

[22:23:01] <nv23> ok it wasn't the packages from the build

[22:23:04] <nv23> lemme take a look at inetd

[22:23:41] <nv23> flyingpartchment: it is commented out, but this isnt going to resolve why the smf service wasn't created by the package

[22:23:57] <nv23> :q!

[22:23:58] <flyingparchment> nv23: because no one wrote the code to make it do that

[22:23:59] <nv23> oops

[22:24:10] <flyingparchment> not everything has been converted to smf yet

[22:24:21] <flyingparchment> (in the specific case of tftp, it might be something to do with jumpstart..)

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[22:25:19] <nv23> flyingpartchment: it is supposed to create that smf...i have several systems with the tftp service under smf

[22:25:41] <flyingparchment> did you use setup_install_server on them?

[22:26:45] <nv23> i am pretty sure im missing a package

[22:26:54] <codestr0m> does John Plocher work for sun?

[22:27:05] <codestr0m> nvm

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[22:30:17] <bubbva> codestr0m not anymore

[22:30:19] <jbk> any feedback on b110?

[22:30:38] <jbk> any gotchas before doing a lu?

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[22:31:04] <codestr0m> jbk: snv_109 to 111 afaik will have a zfs performance bug

[22:31:25] <codestr0m> (outside of that nothing I'm aware of)

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[22:32:36] <coollinux> hi i am trying to work with different languages - i.e trying to be able to see them atleast in the terminal using xemacs or emascs

[22:32:37] <coollinux> or vi

[22:32:46] <trichobezoar> what bug, coollinux ?

[22:33:00] <trichobezoar> Maybe that's why I'm getting stormed for hours regarding timeslider

[22:33:05] <trichobezoar> err, sorry, that's for codestr0m

[22:34:52] <codestr0m> trichobezoar: http://bugs.opensolaris.org/view_bug.do?bug_id=6806627

[22:34:56] <codestr0m> (I think that's correct)

[22:35:01] <coollinux> how do you thinkn i would be able to do that

[22:35:18] <codestr0m> me and another dev are looking into the patches which fixed it and may apply early to our project

[22:35:42] <codestr0m> coollinux: umm. change your locale?

[22:35:51] <codestr0m> set it to UTF-8

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[22:36:16] <trichobezoar> Heh that sucks.  Fixed in snv_112

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[22:36:35] <trichobezoar> Well better than the track record for some bugs ;D

[22:37:26] <codestr0m> trichobezoar: well. as I said.. our project we'll hunt down the patch and resolve or package around it

[22:37:27] <coollinux> just setting the LC_ALL=ru doesn't work for me - where and how do i get the fonts

[22:37:41] <nicoatsun> you need to use a UTF-8 locale

[22:37:53] <nicoatsun> locale -a should list the installed locales

[22:37:54] <codestr0m> coollinux: not sure.. maybe some extra fonts did you install from the global cd or other one?

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[22:38:11] <nicoatsun> pick a UTF-8 locale and use that

[22:38:20] <nicoatsun> that's what I do

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[22:38:49] <trichobezoar> Does sun do anything after finding these types of bugs, like adding an automated test that checks if filesystem performance is drastically reduced?

[22:38:53] <coollinux> i want to work with iso8859-5

[22:38:59] <nicoatsun> so all my apps display messages in English, but I'm able to type and see characters in other languages

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[22:39:15] <trichobezoar> automated tests == hard once, easy forever

[22:39:59] <nicoatsun> coollinux: ISO8859-* are all single byte codesets, therefore you can't use them and work in multiple languages that can't be represented in a single ISO8859-* codeset

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[22:40:21] <nicoatsun> trichobezoar: we have testsuites

[22:40:29] <nicoatsun> the tests are manually written

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[22:40:40] <coollinux> right now i only want to work with this as my text is in ISO8859-5 russian lang

[22:40:49] <nicoatsun> we do have perf testsuites too, but these are typically run after integration, rather than before

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[22:41:43] <nicoatsun> coollinux: if you only want  Latin/Cyrillic then ISO8859-5 will do

[22:41:44] <coollinux> so how do i go about displayin some text in iso8859-5 on my shell

[22:42:03] <nicoatsun> what terminal app?

[22:42:08] <coollinux> how do i load those, do i have to add them to font path

[22:42:28] <nicoatsun> if you start your whole desktop in an 8859-5 locale then it should just work

[22:42:37] <coollinux> on bash

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[22:43:03] <nicoatsun> if you're in some other locale and you're using gnome-terminal use the Terminal->Set Character Encoding menu

[22:43:14] <coollinux> i am using remote login to log into solaris machine

[22:43:19] <coollinux> using putty at the moment

[22:43:48] <nicoatsun> coollinux: then set LC_ALL=<an-ISO8859-5-locale>

[22:43:49] <coollinux> so what do i have to do something like vi or more and still able to see the text

[22:43:59] <nicoatsun> most apps should just work

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[22:44:14] <nicoatsun> VIM might be too smart, depending on your .vimrc

[22:44:27] <coollinux> actually i have a file which has iso8859-5 characters

[22:44:38] <coollinux> i want to do something like

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[22:45:02] <coollinux> vi abc.txt and see the text in proper encoding

[22:45:19] <coollinux> so alli have to do is LC_ALL=iso8859-5

[22:45:31] <nicoatsun> there are tools to convert file contents

[22:45:48] <nicoatsun> so if you're in a UTF-8 locale you can still deal with 885905 contents

[22:45:53] <coollinux> but i have tried using xlsfonts, there are no iso8859-5 fonts

[22:45:53] <nicoatsun> VIM can do it directly, IIRC

[22:46:05] <nicoatsun> there's no such thing as iso8859-5 fonts

[22:46:07] <nicoatsun> locales

[22:46:10] <nicoatsun> use locale -a

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[22:47:23] <coollinux> but if i look in /usr/openwin/lib/locale/iso_8859_5/X11/fonts/

[22:47:38] <coollinux> there are some fonts and if i use xset fp+ thepath

[22:47:48] <coollinux> then xlsfonts give me those fonts as welll

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[22:48:19] <nicoatsun> you're logged in remotely and using a pty, yes?  if so then fonts on the remote side are not an issue

[22:48:24] <nicoatsun> the locale is

[22:48:33] <nicoatsun> ru_RU.ISO8859-5

[22:48:36] <nicoatsun> is the locale you want

[22:49:04] <coollinux> ok nice

[22:49:10] <coollinux> but i just wanted to know where do the fonts come from

[22:49:25] <hajma> Hi, is there someone from the SourceJuicer (jucr.opensolaris.org) project ?

[22:49:38] <nicoatsun> if you're going to be dealing with files in different codesets in the same shell session then you'll want to either use VIM (I don't know enough about VIM and switching codesets, but I believe it does it) or you'll want to convert file contents using, for example, iconv(1)

[22:49:42] <nicoatsun> (man iconv)

[22:50:00] <nicoatsun> hajma: I work with them but not for them

[22:50:09] <nicoatsun> hajma: what's up?

[22:50:35] <nicoatsun> also, there's irc://freenode.net/#opensolaris-jucr

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[22:51:45] <hajma> nicoatsun: thanks, I'll join the channel

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[22:52:39] <coollinux> ok i understand

[22:53:07] <coollinux> just doing LC_ALL will do the trick

[22:53:11] <coollinux> from loadin the fonts

[22:53:33] <coollinux> to displaying them

[22:53:34] <nicoatsun> see also locale(1)

[22:54:04] <nicoatsun> the fonts are an issue where your X11/WIN32/whatever lives

[22:54:15] <coollinux> also if i want to install locales then how to do that

[22:54:18] <nicoatsun> they are an issue for your terminal application

[22:54:35] <nicoatsun> locales are in the operating system install media

[22:54:42] <nicoatsun> they are in packages

[22:54:54] <nicoatsun> I'm not sure how this works in OpenSolaris

[22:55:14] <nicoatsun> I just recall that when I've done OpenSolaris installs I've always selected the locales I want

[22:55:15] <nicoatsun> :)

[22:55:28] <nicoatsun> someone else here might know, but I'll do a quick search anyways

[22:57:05] <coollinux> oh ok

[22:58:09] <nicoatsun> #opensolaris-i18n

[22:58:29] <nicoatsun> aha

[22:58:34] <nicoatsun> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/int_localization/locale_development/projects/#RequestLocale

[22:58:37] <CIA-33> Ethindra Ramamurthy <Ethindra.Ramamurthy at Sun dot COM>: 6538473 system panics, when domain reboot happens in middle of DR

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[22:58:53] <nicoatsun> oh, no, that's for developers

[22:58:56] <nicoatsun> not for users

[22:59:32] <alanc> codestr0m: re: your last mail, that's wrong - the ON gate is now two separate repos - one completely open and a separate one that's checked out under usr/closed

[22:59:40] <alanc> the whole thread is stupid though

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[23:00:38] <alanc> why not assume that if IBM buys Sun they'll throw more resources at emancipation so they can finish the SystemZ port they're funding which is blocked by not having binaries for the closed bits for their platform?

[23:00:52] <codestr0m> alanc: I agree and I tried to ask about this the other day.. sorry I don't have access and only know what people tell me

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[23:01:41] <codestr0m> alanc: IBM owns the copyright on the closed libc afaik.. so it wouldn't make the port easier

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[23:02:06] <alanc> there's no way in hg to allow only part of a repo to be checked out, so it's not possible to have a mixed open/closed repo in hg

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[23:02:23] <nicoatsun> coollinux: I think you want to install the pkgs named SUNWlang-ru*

[23:02:45] <ceri> Fact is, they can't kill opensolaris.  The closed bits only matter because they pass the compliance tests, an opensolaris project disassociated from solaris doesn't need to care

[23:03:02] <codestr0m> alanc: yes subtree or partial checkout isn't possible, but still I don't know how you guys get the source

[23:03:13] <alanc> hg clone

[23:03:35] <alanc> it's documented on the ON webpages, it's not a secret

[23:03:38] <codestr0m> alanc: ok so it's two hg sources you guys keep in sync

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[23:03:47] <codestr0m> (shrugs)

[23:03:54] <nicoatsun> yes

[23:04:01] <nicoatsun> the testsuites live in different gates

[23:04:11] <nicoatsun> some testsuites have been made public, IIRC

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[23:04:23] <codestr0m> nicoatsun: which ones?

[23:04:23] <nicoatsun> but the test gates are mostly private

[23:04:31] <nicoatsun> ZFS and DTrace come to mind

[23:04:34] <CosmicDJ> ceri: well not kill, but who'll continue opensolaris development... this is not a community driven project, the main force behind the continued development are sun employees

[23:05:18] <ceri> cosmicdj That's an artefact of the fact that the gate isn't open to everyone.  That would just change.

[23:05:53] <codestr0m> nicoatsun: I'll have to find the zfs and dtrace testsuite

[23:05:57] <coollinux> nicoatsun: if working on cde/gnome do i have to restart x

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[23:06:05] <ikarius> I suspect if IBM buys sun, they'll relicense the most useful bits, i.e. ZFS & dtrace and then port them to AIX and linux

[23:06:13] <coollinux> or just doing LANG= will work

[23:06:14] <trichobezoar> and java...

[23:06:23] <nicoatsun> the folks who ported DTrace to MacOS X and FreeBSD (and the guy doing the LInux port) all used the DTrace testsuite

[23:06:23] <ikarius> java's already GPL.

[23:06:45] <ikarius> but yes, I suspect IBM is very interested in java

[23:06:46] <ceri> Putting ZFS under the GPL would actually be more harmful to the OpenSolaris project than anything else that IBM could do, I think.

[23:07:16] <ikarius> ceri: I doubt IBM gives a crap about opensolaris. they're invested in AIX on the high end, and linux for mainstream

[23:07:29] <codestr0m> nicoatsun: thanks

[23:07:38] <DesiJat> they care about solaris. a lot.

[23:07:40] <DesiJat> anyways.

[23:07:46] <alanc> ikarius: IBM has long been one of the biggest resellers of Solaris - they're invested in making money

[23:07:50] <nicoatsun> coollinux: if you want your desktop to run in a different locale then you'll need to restart it, yes; but typically apps like gnome-terminal and firefox can deal (so with gnome-terminal you can set the encoding for each terminal)

[23:07:59] <ikarius> solaris would live as long as folks kept paying for maintainence contracts

[23:08:13] <ikarius> alanc: really? I had no idea of that.... that's pretty interesting...

[23:08:17] <codestr0m> instead of all the bs talk.. why don't people help with coding more?

[23:08:29] <nicoatsun> so, there's certainly a lot of overlap between Sun and IBM

[23:08:32] <alanc> coding is hard, making up BS is easy

[23:08:49] <ceri> codestr0m Because that's difficult and requires a foot in the real world?

[23:08:51] <codestr0m> alanc: yeah. it's got your and my feathers ruffled

[23:08:53] <CosmicDJ> ceri: history proves you wrong, look at XFS, the main force behind it are still old SGI devs, or HP's "generous" AdvFS donation, dead code that doesn't even compile on Tru64

[23:08:59] <nicoatsun> it's way, way too early to speculate on what *would* be done about that *if* IBM were to acquire Sun

[23:09:15] <nicoatsun> IBM has been trying to replace AIX with Linux

[23:09:25] <nicoatsun> IBM is porting OpenSolaris to POWER

[23:09:37] <nicoatsun> IBM has an interest in all three OSes

[23:09:44] <alanc> ikarius: http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/x/solutions/os/solaris/ for example

[23:09:47] <codestr0m> nicoatsun: I don't think it's IBM. I think it's a couple IBM employees with too much time/interest on their hands

[23:09:48] <ikarius> nicoatsun: pfft. but theorizing about things we know too little about and blowing smoke is fun ;)

[23:09:54] <nicoatsun> if they were to acquire Sun, which would they kill, if any?  who knows???

[23:10:01] <ceri> cosmicdj I don't really think that history can prove me wrong wrt a future event

[23:10:20] <trichobezoar> It was always conjectured that Sun and Fujistu would merge

[23:10:33] <nicoatsun> ceri: given enough time the probability of any event approaches 1

[23:10:36] <tsoome> i think IBM got no clue what to do

[23:11:01] <nicoatsun> I've seen acquisitions where the smaller partner's culture and management took over

[23:11:12] <nicoatsun> odd things happen in M&As

[23:11:20] <nicoatsun> so chill out :)

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[23:11:56] <trichobezoar> which merger was that?

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[23:12:00] <bda> On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

[23:12:09] <pjfloyd> nicoatsun: do you have a ref for IBM porting OpenSolaris to POWER?

[23:12:13] <alanc> Sun and Apple was a popular rumor of past years (one that had a lot of truth at times it turned out later, as McNealy confirmed a couple rounds of merger talks in the past, and engineers have confirmed working on the "Solaris-based MacOS X" port before Apple bought Next instead)

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[23:12:32] <nicoatsun> tricho: then Swissbank IFD and O'Connor associates, for one

[23:12:49] <CosmicDJ> alanc: too bad it never happend :(

[23:13:05] <nicoatsun> pjfloyd: it was in the news a while back, no?

[23:13:25] <nicoatsun> http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2008/11/24/ibm_authorizes_mainframe_opensolaris/

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[23:13:42] <nicoatsun> use the power of search engines :)

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[23:13:58] <pjfloyd> nicoatsun: that's not a real port

[23:14:19] <nicoatsun> ok then

[23:14:28] <nicoatsun> I think it's time to go do something else now

[23:14:46] <CosmicDJ> nicoatsun: IIRC IBM mainframe != power cpu

[23:14:48] <alanc> trichobezoar: well, for instance, in the mid-90's, Sun bought this little company called Lighthouse, which made OpenStep/NextStep apps, when Sun was investing in OpenStep - the apps died, but the CEO of Lighthouse is now CEO of Sun

[23:14:48] <pjfloyd> nicoatsun: it's just running under xVM

[23:15:15] <nicoatsun> alanc: good point!

[23:15:27] <nicoatsun> alanc: back at UBS we used a lot of OpenStep too

[23:15:44] <nicoatsun> the world is tiny

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[23:17:56] <psychicist> now that there are so many Sun developers here having discussions on the future of OpenSolaris, could someone tell me what is the future of SPARC?

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[23:18:25] <CosmicDJ> psychicist: Rock is still the messiah ;)

[23:19:02] <nicoatsun> we're not discussing; you all are and we're just telling you that we can't predict the future

[23:19:23] <alanc> there's likely nothing we can tell you that you can't read on sun.com or register.co.uk - there's plenty of new SPARC machines in the pipeline, and new CPU versions like Rock in development

[23:19:28] <nicoatsun> as such the answer to your question about SPARC is the same as for OpenSolaris

[23:19:48] <nicoatsun> right

[23:19:52] <psychicist> CosmicDJ: I would only hope any future releases won't be put on the backburner or even axed ;)

[23:19:55] <CosmicDJ> let me translate that as "hazy"

[23:20:12] <nicoatsun> yes, the future is hazy :)

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[23:20:54] <noyb> I've wanted Apple to buy Sun for a long time...  That would be pretty cool to have the aqua ported to Solaris and all of the Solaris goodies could live where they were born, not on BSD.  Then we could ditch gnome.  :)

[23:21:01] <teknoprep> does opensolaris work with dual monitors ?

[23:21:28] <trichobezoar> teknoprep: yes

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[23:23:33] <teknoprep> trichobezoar, so that would probably mean Milax supports dual monitors

[23:24:05] <psychicist> just so you know, I'm a linux guy but I'm also developing/maintaining a SPARC version of my distro, that's why asked. I've read so many doom scenarios over time, that I was wondering if it would still be worth the effort to work on it

[23:24:53] <nicoatsun> psychicist: isn't the question then: "do my customers need that?"

[23:24:57] <alanc> some projects under development are always axed before release, because you can't learn what works without trying things and seeing which fail - as long as enough good ones come out, you win

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[23:30:10] <Tuxbubling> hello how do i unload a module that is busy?

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[23:30:37] <Tuxbubling> my audio has gone mad, i'd like to unload and reload oss

[23:30:56] <psychicist> nicoatsun: they surely don't need it now, but I figured if it would be nice to see what works and what doesn't in case SPARC would really make a comeback as it has with the Niagara systems and the upcoming Rock processor. thanks for your answers, anyway, I appreciate it

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[23:43:01] <nachox> ok, i can confirm adobe reader works in opensolaris

[23:43:19] <nachox> the problem is that it install several odd stuff, like things in /opt/csw

[23:43:35] <CosmicDJ> like?

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[23:44:33] <nachox> /opt/csw/etc/bash_completion.d/acroread.sh

[23:47:14] <nicoatsun> the installer is a binary

[23:47:21] <nicoatsun> which is kind of obnoxious

[23:48:16] <piwi> hope they put it into pkg.sun.com/extra

[23:48:32] <alanc> they're working on getting it into an IPS repo

[23:48:35] <nicoatsun> and it tries to install a browser plugin, but gives no info on how to do that for other copies of the browser

[23:48:43] <nicoatsun> but, hey, I'm not really complaining

[23:48:43] <piwi> great

[23:48:56] <nicoatsun> because just having an x86 acroread is awesome

[23:49:10] <CosmicDJ> so what's next? skype? itunes? ;)

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[23:49:41] <piwi> google chrome :)

[23:49:51] <CosmicDJ> google is evil...

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[23:50:11] <piwi> so is skype.

[23:50:13] <nicoatsun> ah, there's a howto for the browser plugin

[23:50:23] <nicoatsun> ./Browser/HowTo/ENU/Browser_Plugin_HowTo.txt

[23:50:29] <tsoome> there wont be any skype soon

[23:51:24] <nicoatsun> hmmm, I probably don't want the browser plugin

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[23:57:25] <alanc> new ON flag day: Fast Reboot by default and Panic Fast Reboot: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/pages/2009032403/

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[23:58:39] <CIA-33> Sherry Moore <Sherry.Moore at Sun dot COM>: PSARC/2008/760 Boot configuration Service, PSARC/2009/091 Reboot to firmware, PSARC/2009/092 libgrubmgmt - library for GRUB menu management, 6768468 Introducing svc:/system/boot-config service, 6775160 reboot -f ignores active BE and resets zfs pool bootfs property, 6760845 Add checksum verification when loading the new kernel and boot archive for fast reboot, 6815215 quiesce_active should be added to MUTE

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   March 24, 2009  
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