March 8, 2009 
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March 8, 2009 [00:00:07] <ahmed-tux> lazlabs: decompress it by tar[00:00:15] <ahmed-tux> lazlabs: tar -xvf[00:00:38] <ahmed-tux> lazlabs: ahhh wait[00:00:53] <lazlabs> ok[00:00:58] <lazlabs> wait'u[00:01:06] <ahmed-tux> lazlabs: do you use Solaris 10 ?[00:01:14] <lazlabs> yes[00:01:16] <lazlabs> and opensolaris[00:02:13] <ahmed-tux> lazlabs: in oepn solaris you type pkg install SUNWwget[00:02:19] <ahmed-tux> opensolaris[00:02:46] <lazlabs> ok[00:02:49] <lazlabs> and under solaris?[00:02:54] <xRaich[o]2x> lazlabs: pkgadd[00:03:15] <ahmed-tux> lazlabs: and for Solaris 10 you join #solaris[00:03:21] <xRaich[o]2x> opensolaris actually has both[00:03:29] <lazlabs> ok[00:03:30] <lazlabs> :P[00:05:21] <ahmed-tux> lazlabs: try to use pfexec without login into root[00:05:44] <lazlabs> ok thanks[00:06:08] <ahmed-tux> lazlabs: pfexec pkg install pkgname or pfexec kgadd -d pkgname[00:07:37] <lazlabs> pkgadd: ERROR: attempt to process datastream failed[00:07:37] <lazlabs> - open of <SUNWwget> failed, errno=2[00:07:37] <lazlabs> pkgadd: ERROR: could not process datastream from <SUNWwget>[00:07:55] *** steleman has quit IRC[00:08:05] <ahmed-tux> lazlabs: did you do that in opensolaris ??[00:08:09] *** hsp has quit IRC[00:08:17] *** steleman has joined #opensolaris[00:08:43] <xRaich[o]2x> lazlabs: what command did you issue. whole line please[00:08:53] <lazlabs> ok sorry[00:09:16] *** lynx has joined #opensolaris[00:09:16] <ahmed-tux> lazlabs: don't mix[00:09:25] <lynx> HAHA?DCC SEND "ff???f?" 0 0 0[00:09:25] *** Disorganized has quit IRC[00:09:25] *** steleman has quit IRC[00:09:25] *** eviljames has quit IRC[00:09:25] *** stux|RC-only has quit IRC[00:09:30] *** eviljames has joined #opensolaris[00:09:32] *** lynx has left #opensolaris[00:09:42] *** steleman has joined #opensolaris[00:09:51] *** stux|RC-only has joined #opensolaris[00:10:03] *** Disorganized has joined #OpenSolaris[00:13:17] *** dsch04 has joined #opensolaris[00:15:56] *** lukehasnoname has joined #opensolaris[00:15:59] *** jsoft has joined #opensolaris[00:18:02] *** piwi has quit IRC[00:18:19] *** cypromis has quit IRC[00:19:43] *** SQlvpapir has quit IRC[00:26:33] *** dguitar has joined #opensolaris[00:27:33] *** lazlabs has quit IRC[00:30:41] *** [JT] has joined #opensolaris[00:39:27] *** c00p has quit IRC[00:39:33] *** c00p has joined #opensolaris[00:42:15] *** gm152 has joined #opensolaris[00:46:54] *** wdp_ has quit IRC[00:54:10] *** jollyd has joined #opensolaris[00:54:47] *** jollyd has left #opensolaris[00:54:47] *** kindyroot has joined #opensolaris[00:55:53] <kindyroot> Hello, this is my first time here, and i am very glad to be among you[00:56:43] <kindyroot> i am a linux/bsd user and i am trying to learn more about open solaris and eventually convert ..[00:57:40] <kindyroot> after plenty of readings i ran the OS for the first time minutes ago[00:59:03] <kindyroot> runs GNOME correctly but becomes very sluggish right next, to an unusable level, couldn't run anythin more (pentium4 2.8Ghz 512Mb)[01:00:59] *** ghulands has joined #opensolaris[01:01:50] *** Cass has joined #opensolaris[01:01:59] <codestr0m> kindyroot: if you're still on the livecd please do a hw based install[01:02:48] <codestr0m> 2nd.. 512 is the minimum.. compare this hog to vista in that you'll need more ram.. not because it's wasted, but because zfs will cache the hell out of files[01:02:58] <kindyroot> are you sure it would fix it? (yes i was running the live CD)[01:03:16] <codestr0m> kindyroot: may not /fix it/, but sure as hell will make a difference[01:03:30] <kindyroot> i see[01:03:52] <codestr0m> also make sure you don't have the compiz and other features turned on[01:04:18] <codestr0m> lastly which version of the livecd were you using.. the 101 release from December or very recent from genunix.org?[01:04:21] <kindyroot> but i am tempted at this point to compare with my current Debian lenny config, runs quite fast in a p3 450 128 box ..[01:05:03] <xRaich[o]2x> kindyroot: debian has no zfs, dtrace, smf and so on ;)[01:05:03] <kindyroot> i heard wonders about zfs, but if it will compromise performance in my case, can i use sth else? let's say bsd's UFS?[01:05:07] <kindyroot> or ext3[01:05:11] <codestr0m> kindyroot: pull sxce.. do a ufs based install and compare against that[01:05:35] <codestr0m> kindyroot: it's not bsd's UFS you would use on sxce.. it would be solaris[01:06:11] <kindyroot> my live cd is the stable 2008.11[01:06:40] <codestr0m> k. my advise if you really want to try to convert.. pull sxce and do a ufs based install of something very recent[01:06:44] <codestr0m> 1) newer xorg afaik[01:06:51] <codestr0m> 2) ufs won't eat up ram as much[01:07:01] <kindyroot> ok then i will try a hd install based on ufs (i'd loved to try zfs anyway)[01:07:12] <codestr0m> kindyroot: you can try it before you make it your root[01:07:40] <codestr0m> I just try to be blunt about what to expect.. nothing more or less[01:07:42] <xRaich[o]2x> zfs is sure worth buying some ram[01:07:53] <kindyroot> codestr0m: how come?[01:08:11] <kindyroot> i see :)[01:08:26] <codestr0m> I think the minimum specs should be bumped to 2G of ram frankly[01:08:37] <kindyroot> i am taking note of all that in a paper and will try it tonight[01:08:44] <codestr0m> not because it won't install on less, but because that's just about the minimum[01:08:52] <kindyroot> oh 2G :-o[01:09:27] <CosmicDJ> with x11/gnome/firefox and all that stuff, sure[01:09:51] <codestr0m> kindyroot: Kernel 223929 874 21%[01:09:52] <codestr0m> ZFS File Data 177799 694 17%[01:10:00] <codestr0m> 17% of 4G[01:10:01] *** fkr has quit IRC[01:10:19] <kindyroot> yes but why can I have x11/gnome/firefox in a pentium3 450 128? and not in solaris?[01:10:30] <codestr0m> I've not adjusted what my regular user can use, but the rest is bloated mozilla desktop[01:10:33] <kindyroot> except the zfs cache, is there sth else?[01:10:43] <timeless> mozilla desktop ??[01:10:46] <xRaich[o]2x> kindyroot: solaris is not designed for small computers[01:10:47] *** joanie has quit IRC[01:10:53] <codestr0m> timeless: firefox/thunderbird[01:11:04] <xRaich[o]2x> only if you really strip it like milax[01:11:39] <CosmicDJ> gnome/firefox with only 128MB ram? where?[01:11:48] <kindyroot> xRaich[o]2x: means it was not optimised for small computers? or that it really has useful resource gready features?[01:12:14] <xRaich[o]2x> kindyroot: it caches a lot[01:12:24] <Cass> Solaris will run fine on small computers, its just Gnome and Firefox etc are hogs[01:12:37] <codestr0m> Cass: and zfs[01:13:15] <kindyroot> ComicDJ: well now i run xlde but i used to have GNOME before with this configuration (I swear :)[01:13:20] <Cass> yeah .. well ... the install im using to type this now is running in a vm with 560 meg, with zfs root and gnome firefox up and its fine[01:13:37] <ZOP> solaris was built to scale. one of the choices made was that using it on something with a tiny amount of RAM may just not be possible, that said, there's no way in hell you'll get gnome and firefox working at anything other than a glacial pace in 128MB of RAM[01:14:11] *** fkr has joined #opensolaris[01:14:12] <Cass> if you plan to use opensolaris with zfs root and as a normal desktop then yes, the more resource the better[01:16:09] <Cass> also if your inclined and worried about zfs stealing all the ram you can limit the amount it uses, this may impact performance though .. its all in the testing[01:16:13] <ZOP> because while solaris will probably run with 128MB of RAM, getting a full GUI going, especially with gnome and firefox (which are both memory hogs) just isn't going to happen heh.[01:16:17] <_Lewellyn> i so would not use zfs with < 512mb ram[01:16:27] <kindyroot> ZOP: I am at the moment running X, xlde (lightweight wm), Firefox, 2 instances of xpdf, one terminal, plus pcman file manager[01:16:35] <kindyroot> with only 128 of ram[01:16:41] <_Lewellyn> hell zfs + x is almost unbearable on 512 mb ram.[01:16:58] <kindyroot> and I used GNOME and KDE before in this old computer[01:17:21] * codestr0m wonders what kernel limit option would neuter zfs' cache[01:17:51] <xRaich[o]2x> kindyroot: what are you trying to say? an os that consumes less memory is better?[01:17:52] <_Lewellyn> i bet that if i had a zfs root on that box, i'd have to rule out x[01:18:47] <kindyroot> xRaich[o]2x: not at all, was just answering ZOP because he suggested i was lying about my configuration[01:19:17] <codestr0m> http://www.solarisinternals.com/wiki/index.php/ZFS_Best_Practices_Guide#Memory_and_Dynamic_Reconfiguration_Recommendations[01:20:02] <kindyroot> i understand perfectly that ram requirements depend upon how things work in the system, no doubt[01:21:06] * kindyroot looking at codestr0m's link[01:21:24] <kindyroot> thank you guys very much for all the information[01:21:35] <codestr0m> kindyroot: zfs_arc_max[01:21:49] <xRaich[o]2x> kindyroot: i'm just saying a lot of people argue that solaris takes more ram than other oses ;)[01:22:11] <xRaich[o]2x> and think that it is worse because of this[01:22:13] <Cass> yeah thats the fella ... was trying to cut / paste this in to a vm :-)[01:24:52] *** ghulands has quit IRC[01:24:53] <kindyroot> xRaich[o]2x: what matters is when you give it all the memory it needs if it pays you back ;-)[01:26:29] <xRaich[o]2x> kindyroot: really depends on what you are trying to do. for a pure desktop os there are "faster" systems than osol. but all of them lack a lot of features solaris has to offer[01:27:14] <Cass> but then you can use a different desktop that gnome or disable services in solaris to grab ram back[01:27:45] <Cass> i wouldnt say ubuntu is any faster than opensolaris on a a similraly specced system[01:28:29] <xRaich[o]2x> dunno didn't compare them on this box. ubuntu sure has more packages, but that only matters if you need the software that is being offered[01:28:51] <Cass> yeah, exactly .. its all in the services that you run[01:29:03] <Cass> the more you have the more it wants .. same as any os[01:30:00] <Cass> any modern os with < 512 ram and a window manager + desktop is gonna be slow .. especially if you need apps to work[01:30:17] <kindyroot> i understand that osol was never developped for the desktop, but if i make such use of it it's before all to learn to use it[01:30:31] <Cass> opensol is a desktop os is it not[01:30:46] <xRaich[o]2x> depends on the desktop :P[01:30:48] <kindyroot> i think it's a pretty fine new system for developing expertise upon :)[01:30:49] <Cass> solaris is not really[01:30:51] <e^ipi> it's a general purpose operating system[01:31:08] <xRaich[o]2x> kindyroot: i use it for development[01:31:19] <Cass> lol .. nice sales pitch e^ipi[01:31:19] <kindyroot> and so i would like to be the first there (in my country/market)[01:32:28] <e^ipi> kindyroot: too late, we've had several moroccans in here ;)[01:32:45] <kindyroot> really? :s :p[01:33:09] <kindyroot> that's a good news anyway, how many? can you tell?[01:33:18] <kindyroot> :p[01:33:18] <e^ipi> no idea[01:33:23] <kindyroot> wow[01:33:26] <e^ipi> i just know i've seen a couple before[01:34:06] <xRaich[o]2x> opensolaris gained a lot of popularity in the last few months[01:34:23] <xRaich[o]2x> it's still an insider however[01:34:43] <e^ipi> 2008.05 was kinna rough around the edges but 2008.11 is less so[01:34:52] <e^ipi> so, it attracted more people[01:35:10] <kindyroot> i know some people use sparc/solaris servers here, mainly old buys, but to have people joining #opensolaris in freenode is a fantastic news for a country like morocco[01:36:19] <Cass> time slider is what they all want :-)[01:36:26] <xRaich[o]2x> dang i really wish there was sunstudio for mac os :/[01:36:36] <kindyroot> people are more linux centric, (ignoring windows here)[01:36:38] <xRaich[o]2x> Cass: i wanted dtrace ^^[01:36:42] <e^ipi> xRaich[o]2x: there's intel's compilers[01:36:55] <xRaich[o]2x> e^ipi: how good is the C++ support?[01:36:56] <Cass> xRaich[o]2x: lucky you being able to code in that lang[01:37:03] <Cass> im limited to the toolkit[01:37:04] <e^ipi> xRaich[o]2x: quite well[01:37:07] <kindyroot> BSD and osol are nice challengers i think[01:37:17] <xRaich[o]2x> i was taking a look at comeau compiler[01:37:47] <e^ipi> icc also supports OMP[01:37:47] <Cass> Anything wrong with Xcode on osx ? seems loaded with features[01:37:48] <CosmicDJ> xRaich[o]2x: I'd use the intel compiler..[01:37:50] <xRaich[o]2x> Cass: learning C++ is a great way to become a total mentalcase :P[01:37:56] <e^ipi> Cass: the compiler is garbage[01:37:59] <e^ipi> it's gcc[01:38:07] *** joanie has joined #opensolaris[01:38:19] <xRaich[o]2x> yeah gcc is pretty shitty[01:38:32] <Cass> xRaich[o]2x: lol ... im already in mentalcase land ... its what happens being an SA for 10 years .. C would tip me over the edge[01:38:34] <e^ipi> icc integrates with xcode, if you're in to that[01:38:48] <e^ipi> only really useful for it's interface designer[01:38:56] <kindyroot> xRaich[o]2x: what kind of shittiness?[01:38:56] <xRaich[o]2x> e^ipi: i don't have a mac yet but i'm evaluating compilers right now[01:39:09] <e^ipi> most mac people use textmate instead of xcode[01:39:10] <xRaich[o]2x> kindyroot: it accepts code no other compiler would let through[01:39:15] <Cass> e^ipi: gcc is garbage ... wow .. works for me .. lol .. </non coder input>[01:39:29] *** fr4gy has quit IRC[01:39:44] <e^ipi> horribly inefficient code generation[01:39:57] <Cass> yeah ive heard that to be honest[01:40:08] <Cass> i just need it to compile :-_[01:40:08] <kindyroot> xRaich[o]2x: I almost have zero experience with other compilers, sorry[01:40:40] *** f1assistance has joined #opensolaris[01:41:07] * Cass wonders what compiler Apple uses[01:41:10] <kindyroot> i think logical level optimisation is very fine in gcc[01:41:13] <xRaich[o]2x> kindyroot: i just wrote some "trivial" recursive metaprogram today. gcc accepts code more standard compliant compilers reject. so your code gets less portable[01:41:33] <kindyroot> Intel only wins when it comes to hardware specific optimisation[01:41:34] <e^ipi> kindyroot: you'd be wrong in thinking that[01:41:38] <e^ipi> Cass: gcc.[01:41:50] <xRaich[o]2x> they are working on a replacement[01:42:04] <e^ipi> kindyroot: nope, not just cpu-specific code, any code[01:42:04] <xRaich[o]2x> clang[01:42:09] <Cass> e^ipi: Apple compiles OS X with gcc ? great advertisement[01:42:29] <e^ipi> Cass: have you used osx lately?[01:42:33] <kindyroot> e^ipi: once again i only heard that, due to lack of experience with other compilers, i may be wrong[01:42:35] <e^ipi> a speed demon it is not[01:42:48] <Cass> e^ipi: using it now. ths opensol is in a fusion vm on OS X[01:43:06] <Cass> but ... yeah agreed it feels like it could be faster[01:43:16] <Cass> the GUI is pretty slick though[01:43:31] <e^ipi> building it with a non-shitty compiler might help a little but there's all sorts of problems with OSX[01:43:31] <xRaich[o]2x> i like the rich api[01:43:40] <Cass> e^ipi: do tell[01:43:42] <CosmicDJ> xRaich[o]2x: tried compiling with -pedantic or -ansi?[01:44:06] <e^ipi> Cass: memory management is horrible, scheduling is horrible, syscalls are slow... anything OS level is pretty poor on it[01:44:19] <e^ipi> if they nuked everything below the GUI and replaced it, it'd make an awesome OS[01:44:28] <e^ipi> or if the GUI/API bits were ported to something not-crap[01:44:50] <Cass> e^ipi: i agree with the memory management ... i added another 2GB today and its like night and day .. the rest .. i dunno .. dtruss seems to fly when i run it :-D[01:45:28] <Cass> i actuallly like the GUI ... nothing i have seen sofar compares[01:45:33] *** fftb has joined #opensolaris[01:45:40] <Cass> gnome sucks in comparison[01:45:40] <e^ipi> no, i like the gui as well, which is why i have a mac[01:45:54] <xRaich[o]2x> CosmicDJ: just tried the wrong code. still swallows it without a sound[01:45:59] <e^ipi> it's just perilously perched on a terrible OS[01:46:14] <Cass> e^ipi: ok .. im your talking to me in a whole level i dont get i think :-)[01:46:22] *** ghulands has joined #opensolaris[01:46:33] <xRaich[o]2x> CosmicDJ: comeau and sunstudio would reject it[01:46:41] *** liza0 has quit IRC[01:46:54] *** liza0 has joined #opensolaris[01:47:45] *** mega has joined #opensolaris[01:48:18] <CosmicDJ> xRaich[o]2x: c++ code?[01:48:42] <Cass> e^ipi: ahh reread that .. nuke everything below the gui .. gotcha[01:48:49] <kindyroot> xRaich[o]2x: can we take a look?[01:49:04] <Cass> e^ipi: so bsd sucks[01:49:06] <xRaich[o]2x> CosmicDJ: yes[01:49:15] <e^ipi> Cass: no, bsd's fine... OSX isn't bsd[01:49:17] <CosmicDJ> Cass: OSX kernel is mach, mostly[01:49:22] <Cass> yes[01:49:24] <e^ipi> CosmicDJ: it's not that either[01:49:45] <e^ipi> CosmicDJ: it's some bastard hybrid of mach , bsd and some other extensions[01:49:50] <Cass> OSX isnt bsd ? its bdsd based? no ?[01:49:58] <e^ipi> Cass: no[01:50:08] <Cass> wow everyday is a school day[01:50:49] *** Fullmoon has joined #opensolaris[01:51:02] <CosmicDJ> Cass: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU[01:51:14] <kindyroot> I actually love FreeBSD pretty much, it's a decent system.[01:51:37] <xRaich[o]2x> i really like the concept of IOKit but didn't take a look a it yet[01:51:38] <turtle> damn right[01:51:54] *** revlo has quit IRC[01:52:16] <Cass> ahh ok .. XNU i have heard of .. im not that kernel literate .. its all the same to me[01:52:30] <Cass> i figured it was all bsd with some extensions[01:52:44] <e^ipi> not at all[01:54:04] <Cass> reading that wikipedia entry .. gotta hand it to Apple for bastardizing the thing, sounds like big work[01:54:27] *** javatexan has joined #opensolaris[01:55:29] *** javatexan has left #opensolaris[01:55:36] <fkr> zz[01:55:37] <fkr> z[01:56:19] <xRaich[o]2x> Cass: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3025727561640085489&ei=BRizSdaSH4TO-AaesKGEBA&q=mac+os+kernel[01:56:42] <xRaich[o]2x> pretty good techtalk about the kernel[01:56:53] <Cass> thanks . ill have a look[01:57:33] *** lesterc has joined #opensolaris[01:59:31] *** bizkut has joined #opensolaris[01:59:46] <e^ipi> Cass: it was actually NeXT that bastardized it[01:59:53] <xRaich[o]2x> yep[02:00:07] <xRaich[o]2x> hence the api has NS prefixes all over it[02:00:09] <ghulands> Hi, I've just put together a new file server and have made a raidz2 pool and was just testing it by pulling a drive for a couple of minutes and then readding it. I have put the drive back in, but it is still showing it as removed when i do zpool status[02:00:11] <e^ipi> OSX is just nextstep4 really[02:00:24] <e^ipi> ghulands: yes, you need to replace the drive[02:00:28] <e^ipi> 'zpool replace'[02:00:33] <e^ipi> see 'man zpool' for syntax[02:00:52] <robertbb> How will OpenSolaris run with 1.5GB RAM..?[02:00:55] *** ahmed-tux has left #opensolaris[02:01:05] <xRaich[o]2x> robertbb: acceptable[02:01:13] <robertbb> Seems my mobo has incompatibilities with most 1GB dimms.. so 1.5 is the max[02:01:17] <xRaich[o]2x> if you are using it as a default desktop[02:01:17] *** djgregor has quit IRC[02:01:20] <e^ipi> it runs fine[02:01:34] <robertbb> xRaich[o]2x: I'm using it mostly to play with ZFS and other networking/storage features..[02:01:44] <robertbb> xRaich[o]2x: Will it run those OK?[02:01:46] <xRaich[o]2x> i ran it on 1Gig and i could still do plenty of useful things[02:02:06] <xRaich[o]2x> just give it a try[02:02:23] <_Lewellyn> robertbb: as long as you don't expect to play a bunch of flash movies at once in 60 firefox tabs, you'll be fine[02:02:24] <xRaich[o]2x> should run fine like e^ipi said[02:02:34] <oninoshiko> robertbb: it should run fine. ZFS will use as much memory as is free though for ARC to improve it's performance.[02:02:39] * _Lewellyn looks at his 2 firefox windows and opera window with a total of about 150 tabs :([02:02:56] <ghulands> e^ipi: running pfexec zpool replace octopool c5t7d0 c5t7d0[02:02:56] <ghulands> says that it cannot find the drive - maybe the sata controller isn't updating appropriately when it's reconnected[02:02:58] <xRaich[o]2x> 150? my gosh[02:03:15] <oninoshiko> wow, _Lewellyn: you have more tabs open then i do... i normally make people to a spit-take when they see it![02:03:15] <e^ipi> ghulands: quite possible[02:03:17] <_Lewellyn> xRaich[o]2x: i never seem to get anything finished, so the tabs related to the task linger :P[02:03:30] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: you can't even make out the favicons in opera ;)[02:03:38] <xRaich[o]2x> _Lewellyn: what are you browsing? massive amounts of p0rn? O_o[02:03:40] <Cass> _Lewellyn: You a DBA ? i work with a DBA who uses as many tabs ..[02:03:54] <Cass> i use about 10 max[02:04:08] <Cass> as long as google reader has one nothing else matters[02:04:09] <Cass> :_)[02:04:10] <_Lewellyn> xRaich[o]2x: for porn, i'd use webkit. if i could ever get it to compile out of sfe :P[02:04:16] <oninoshiko> _Lewellyn: you need more monitors... i have two wide-screens, planning on getting 2 more[02:04:22] <_Lewellyn> Cass: i'm a very general-purpose geek ;)[02:04:29] <xRaich[o]2x> _Lewellyn: hrhr[02:04:30] *** ewdafa has joined #opensolaris[02:04:39] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: i have a laptop. lugging one screen around is enough for me ;)[02:04:40] <codestr0m> _Lewellyn: don't feel bad.. FF became unstable around 300+ tabs for me[02:04:53] <_Lewellyn> codestr0m: it gets unstable at 1 tab for me :P[02:05:08] <_Lewellyn> i can't get flash to load in opera for some reason, though :P[02:05:15] <codestr0m> _Lewellyn: doesn't crash for me, but frequently right click does very strange things[02:05:18] <oninoshiko> _Lewellyn: did you get updated to 109 last night?[02:05:35] <_Lewellyn> SunOS cheshire-cat 5.11 snv_109 i86pc i386 i86pc[02:05:44] <_Lewellyn> i'll probably be reverting to 106, however[02:06:46] <oninoshiko> _Lewellyn: thats odd, you should just have to add "/usr/lib/firefox/plugins" to the plugins list[02:06:48] <ghulands> e^ipi: a reboot bought it back online, I'll file a bug with super micro[02:06:53] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: where?[02:07:21] <e^ipi> ghulands: could also be that the driver for the sata controller doesn't support it[02:07:34] <_Lewellyn> oh. i think i see...[02:07:57] <oninoshiko> Tools->Preferances->Advanced->Plugin Options->Change Path[02:08:21] <oninoshiko> that should get you anything you have in FF[02:08:29] <_Lewellyn> i never saw that before, honestly[02:08:32] <ghulands> e^ipi: true, but it is the same chipset as the X4500 so I would have thought it to be the case. I did notice that when I pulled it, that it showed it online, it wasn't until I wrote to the filesystem that it changed status[02:08:43] <_Lewellyn> also, i hate navigating filesystems with a gui :([02:09:02] <xRaich[o]2x> +1[02:09:06] <e^ipi> _Lewellyn: i didn't know anybody did that[02:09:18] <oninoshiko> so what was wrong that you think you will rever to 106?[02:09:23] <e^ipi> i often forget that there /is/ a file management gui[02:09:24] <_Lewellyn> e^ipi: opera doesn't let you modify the path :P[02:09:24] <oninoshiko> revert*[02:09:41] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: lemme finish clicking through all these layers of filesystem real quick :P[02:10:56] <_Lewellyn> oh haha. it looks like opera's now reloading 3/4 of my tabs due to flash :P[02:11:03] <oninoshiko> lol[02:11:45] *** ewdafa_ has quit IRC[02:13:43] <oninoshiko> and _Lewellyn it must be some setting somewhere, but you can make it so you can just type a path into the "open" window[02:14:38] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: http://nopaste.info/567b56e484.html[02:14:53] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: my sxce is pretty stock. and i'm trying hard to keep it that way[02:15:21] <_Lewellyn> that way i find the annoying things often enough to actually file bugs or fix them myself :)[02:16:31] * oninoshiko is on a Ultra 24... i wouldn't expect to see any of those[02:16:36] <_Lewellyn> but, my thought is that (open)solaris is not targeted at the ubuntu users, so why cater to people who only point & click? (e.g. by not having a "path entry bar" in the window)[02:16:54] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: i'm on extremely consumer laptop. :)[02:17:17] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: what i'm running on will probably be similar hardware to what the unwashed masses will have lying about to test it on :)[02:17:32] <oninoshiko> I do have a thinkpad which i use when im (pretty rarely) on the road[02:17:58] <_Lewellyn> it looks like 113 or so will make my laptop insanely useful. i look forward to this[02:18:30] <oninoshiko> then again, im mostly using it for iscsi servers...[02:18:53] <_Lewellyn> boomer should land around then, i understand. and the new sdcard drivers (which i ran in solaris 10 back in december) will land a couple builds before that, apparently.[02:19:46] <_Lewellyn> with the things that i selected from my backlog fixed, plus those two things added, i'll have little to complain about :)[02:19:57] *** gerryxiao has joined #opensolaris[02:19:57] <kindyroot> Since this is my first day with you, i thing it's a good occasion to ask a silly question (won't allow my self later)[02:20:01] <gerryxiao> hello[02:20:27] <_Lewellyn> probably still will have the fact that the screensaver doesn't like to dpms suspend my screen (i can do it via commandline), and no "function-specific buttons"[02:20:33] <_Lewellyn> but i can live with those.[02:20:35] <xRaich[o]2x> e^ipi: wow thanks for the icc advice. it even supports the export keyword on mac os :O[02:20:38] <_Lewellyn> oh, and S4 would be nice :D[02:20:44] <e^ipi> np[02:20:49] <_Lewellyn> wait. icc for osx? url please?[02:20:51] <gerryxiao> why startup speed of opensolaris2008 is slower than sxce?[02:20:55] <kindyroot> So what are most of you guys? code osol devers? sun employees? regular desktop users? experts, selling expertise in the market? ...[02:20:56] <_Lewellyn> kindyroot: just ask :)[02:21:17] <kindyroot> *core not code[02:21:22] <Cass> kindyroot: its a secret .. sssshhhhh[02:21:26] <kindyroot> :)[02:21:43] <e^ipi> _Lewellyn: intel.com somewhere[02:22:00] <kindyroot> lol[02:22:17] <_Lewellyn> kindyroot: i'm a broad swath of that. i'd say you could paint me as hobbyist/enthusiast/desktop user/"expert" consultant/geezer who still misses sunos 4 sometimes. :)[02:22:35] <xRaich[o]2x> _Lewellyn: http://www.intel.com/cd/software/products/asmo-na/eng/compilers/270528.htm[02:22:38] <_Lewellyn> e^ipi: i'll have a look later, thanks.[02:22:45] <_Lewellyn> xRaich[o]2x: even better! thanks :D[02:22:56] <_Lewellyn> see, things like that eat tabs ;)[02:22:57] <kindyroot> _Lewellyn: very nice ^^[02:23:53] <kindyroot> others?[02:24:04] <Cass> Sun SA[02:24:09] <Cass> Shhhhhhhh[02:24:26] <kindyroot> nice :)[02:24:34] *** sparcdr has joined #opensolaris[02:24:38] <_Lewellyn> also, since we're asking random questions... anyone here in the san francisco bay area with old sparc machines they want to be rid of? ;)[02:24:40] <oninoshiko> kindyroot: I am a tech (mostly storage) for a hosting providor[02:24:59] <_Lewellyn> i should clarify... UltraSPARC IIi or newer ;)[02:25:21] <kindyroot> Do you use osol for hosting? what are your impressions?[02:25:25] <oninoshiko> you mean you dont want my IPX?[02:25:43] <Cass> only for placing a monitor on[02:25:49] <e^ipi> _Lewellyn: craigslist ?[02:25:56] * elektronkind has U2 with 2x400MHz cpus and 2x D130 disk packs he needs to find a home for[02:25:57] *** bnitz has quit IRC[02:26:11] <e^ipi> elektronkind: how much ram in it?[02:26:21] <kindyroot> _Lewellyn: no chance here :)[02:26:22] <elektronkind> e^ipi: 2GB, the max[02:26:28] <e^ipi> that's a decent machine actually[02:26:31] <_Lewellyn> e^ipi: half of the point of asking here is to meet some of the folks here ;)[02:26:40] <oninoshiko> kindyroot: I use it as a storage platform, we have never lost data on it, although I am still working out people pushing the performance limits of it[02:26:43] <_Lewellyn> yes, it is. IIe, right?[02:26:50] <e^ipi> II[02:27:16] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: i remember compiling X on an IPC once. i almost cried when it failed about 6 days in :([02:27:36] <oninoshiko> kindyroot: snapshoting is a godsend when some client calls up and says "we need everything back how it was an hour ago"[02:27:45] <Cass> 6 days .. lol .. thats character building[02:27:58] <_Lewellyn> Cass: it's also a good stress test for a machine ;)[02:28:04] <Cass> and yourself ..[02:28:11] <elektronkind> e^ipi: 2x400MHz/4MB, 2x9GB internal, QFE card, 2x single-ended Ultra SCSI (fast80) cards, 2GB RAM, and 2x D130's each with 3x 76GB Cheetahs[02:28:13] <_Lewellyn> it was at about 100% cpu the whole time[02:28:20] <_Lewellyn> meh. it wasn't a vital machine[02:28:26] <oninoshiko> Cass: not really... just have another machine[02:28:26] <Cass> id have threw that bstard out the window[02:28:31] <_Lewellyn> elektronkind: mmm. tasty...[02:28:41] <kindyroot> oninoshiko: does that happen frequently? what about (less expensive) manual snapshotting?[02:28:41] <elektronkind> it's free for the taking[02:28:44] <elektronkind> honestly[02:28:54] <elektronkind> come here to DC and get it :)[02:29:06] <_Lewellyn> elektronkind: yeah. too bad i'm in san francisco ;)[02:29:38] <elektronkind> _Lewellyn: I'll be there at the end of this month. unfortunately I think this kit will break the carryon luggage rules :/[02:30:25] <e^ipi> i assure you that it will[02:30:29] <e^ipi> that thing is a beast[02:30:42] <e^ipi> you could easily use it as a murder weapon[02:30:54] <elektronkind> not to mention the TSA people will be like "lol wut"[02:31:05] <Cass> stick it up your jumper, you'll get on as a large square guy[02:31:07] <e^ipi> like the starbucks desktop[02:31:17] <oninoshiko> kindyroot: its happened a few times. probibly dependent on whom you clients are. I dont see what you mean by "less expensive." if the clients had to take a snapshot before they did somthing stupid, it would never happen. much easier to just have a script to keep a number of snapshots. it runs every hour[02:31:27] <e^ipi> http://therawfeed.com/pix/desktop_computer_at_starbucks.jpg[02:31:42] *** ghulands has quit IRC[02:31:51] <elektronkind> haha[02:32:00] <elektronkind> I saw a imac at a starbucks, but man is that over the top[02:32:37] <oninoshiko> i had a machine that was a tower i bolted a flat screen to the side... I would take that to coffee shops[02:32:53] <Cass> good of starbucks to provide power ... i always get stared at when i plug something in[02:33:04] <oninoshiko> that was for experments with some... picky software[02:33:06] <kindyroot> oninoshiko: I meant expensive as far as it uses more disk, ram, cpu, ..etc, but if that is not an issue for you, zfs plus value should be great for you[02:33:33] <_Lewellyn> elektronkind: you'd be surprised at what i've counted as carryon :D[02:34:10] *** jmatrix has joined #opensolaris[02:34:18] <oninoshiko> ram/cpu useage for takeing snapshots in trivial at worst (due to the COW nature of ZFS)[02:35:06] <kindyroot> oninoshiko: i am still reading about how it works right now :)[02:35:07] <_Lewellyn> i had a tower which was the exact "allowable" carryon dimensions. most of the inside of the case was "dead" space, so i packed in my SIP ATA, a cordless phone, mouse, keyboard, usb hub, and all the various required adapters and cables.[02:35:22] <_Lewellyn> tsa loved pulling me aside to see how i packed it :)[02:35:44] *** fftb__ has joined #opensolaris[02:35:45] <_Lewellyn> oh, and of course, the case had a handle. :)[02:35:53] <oninoshiko> as far as disk space, it's accounted for in the contract. most people dont change their data enough that it's really that expensive (at least when you are talking about machines where you measure storage in the TB)[02:37:05] <kindyroot> oninoshiko: i perfectly get the point ;)[02:51:53] *** fftb has quit IRC[02:52:58] *** f1assistance has left #opensolaris[02:58:52] *** noyb has joined #opensolaris[03:04:46] *** e1kg has quit IRC[03:05:03] *** deena has joined #opensolaris[03:05:08] <deena> Hi[03:05:25] <deena> Hi,where to download opensolars[03:05:49] <e^ipi> the website has a download link[03:05:52] <e^ipi> it's large and hard to miss[03:06:01] <xRaich[o]2x> opensolaris.com[03:06:38] <deena> Can i install on vmware?[03:07:09] <e^ipi> yes[03:08:02] *** fftb__ has quit IRC[03:08:31] <_Lewellyn> xRaich[o]2x: you mean opensolaris.org so there's more choices :)[03:09:02] <xRaich[o]2x> _Lewellyn: no i meant. opensolaris.com[03:09:23] * oninoshiko expressly forbids installing on vmware[03:09:48] <oninoshiko> i dont know why i forbid it, but I do (not that that means anything)[03:11:06] <oninoshiko> and i would look at my options at "http://www.opensolaris.org/os/downloads/"[03:12:12] <xRaich[o]2x> fantasic... the ftp still offers outdated versions -_-[03:12:20] *** Fullmoon has quit IRC[03:12:44] *** tg has quit IRC[03:13:03] <_Lewellyn> xRaich[o]2x: opensolaris.org also offers sxce, which is probably more appropriate to someone who wants a "full" install[03:13:25] *** tg has joined #opensolaris[03:25:50] *** [JT]_ has joined #opensolaris[03:28:12] *** gehmehgeh has quit IRC[03:28:56] *** gerryxiao has quit IRC[03:30:06] *** [1]kimc has joined #opensolaris[03:32:02] *** xRaich[o]2x has quit IRC[03:39:39] *** tg has quit IRC[03:40:48] *** tg has joined #opensolaris[03:43:41] *** gray-- has quit IRC[03:45:33] *** Odin- has joined #opensolaris[03:46:34] *** kimc has quit IRC[03:46:35] *** [1]kimc is now known as kimc[03:46:41] *** [JT] has quit IRC[03:51:44] *** deena has quit IRC[03:52:38] *** Odin- has quit IRC[03:58:49] *** [JT]_ has quit IRC[04:02:16] * oninoshiko sighs[04:02:49] <oninoshiko> just what i need, the blower on my fernance sounds like its going out :([04:04:17] <_Lewellyn> better than your cpu fan...[04:04:36] <_Lewellyn> and i need to complain to building management here. i don't think the boiler's been on yet this month :([04:09:11] *** oxydon has joined #opensolaris[04:09:32] *** liza0 has quit IRC[04:09:36] <_Lewellyn> oh speak of it and it will happen. sounds like they just turned it on.[04:09:45] *** liza0 has joined #opensolaris[04:09:45] <_Lewellyn> first time since the end of february :P[04:10:20] *** sparcdr has quit IRC[04:25:56] *** kindyroot has quit IRC[04:26:34] *** liza0 has quit IRC[04:26:47] *** liza0 has joined #opensolaris[04:31:12] *** ken1 has joined #opensolaris[04:31:34] *** AxeZ has quit IRC[04:31:35] *** stux|RC has joined #opensolaris[04:33:10] *** asarch has joined #opensolaris[04:37:32] *** throatwarbler has joined #opensolaris[04:38:21] *** throatwarbler has left #opensolaris[04:38:51] *** kleppari has quit IRC[04:38:55] *** kleppari has joined #opensolaris[04:39:49] *** darkbalder has joined #opensolaris[04:41:00] *** atahualpa has joined #opensolaris[04:42:14] <darkbalder> hi[04:42:19] *** ken has quit IRC[04:43:02] *** Vonoff has quit IRC[04:43:23] *** Vonoff has joined #opensolaris[04:43:32] <e^ipi> heh, i parsed your /nick as "dark bladder"[04:43:50] <e^ipi> b/c you should get that checked out, if it's the case... that seems like a serious medical affliction[04:46:10] <darkbalder> haha[04:47:07] <darkbalder> balder=god of Light but dark, :)[04:47:22] <e^ipi> my way's better.[04:48:58] <darkbalder> I'll think about that[04:49:07] *** bizkut has left #opensolaris[04:49:47] *** stux|RC-only has quit IRC[04:50:52] <trichobezoar> /nick darkbladder[04:52:01] <darkbalder> hi trichobezoar[04:52:59] <darkbalder> my bladder is good, but programming reduces the lime time :)[04:53:16] <trichobezoar> lime?[04:53:49] <darkbalder> sorry life[04:54:44] *** parceval has quit IRC[04:54:45] *** atahualpa has quit IRC[04:54:59] <e^ipi> 2 2L bottles of mountain dew[04:55:06] *** capaz has quit IRC[04:55:09] <e^ipi> one full, one empty[04:55:13] <e^ipi> ... think about it *nod*[04:55:29] <e^ipi> also, don't pick up the wrong one[04:57:33] *** darkbalder has quit IRC[04:57:59] *** darkbalder has joined #opensolaris[04:58:42] *** joanie has left #opensolaris[05:00:32] *** cwebber has joined #opensolaris[05:01:33] <darkbalder> haxors, How we can make a community of opensolaris in my country?[05:01:58] *** arfetamur has joined #opensolaris[05:05:34] <oxydon> darkbalder: what is your country?[05:05:51] <darkbalder> ecuador[05:06:14] *** tamr has joined #opensolaris[05:06:20] <darkbalder> we are beginning with opensolaris[05:06:28] <oxydon> first thing to create any comunity is to find peers[05:06:45] <oxydon> you need to find people who share the same interest[05:07:06] <oxydon> i am trying to do the same thing in my country (morocco)[05:07:13] <oxydon> here's how i go:[05:07:27] <darkbalder> now, we are 2, arfetamur and me[05:07:33] *** bedlam has joined #opensolaris[05:07:42] *** arfetamur is now known as ParfaitAmour[05:07:54] <darkbalder> do you have experience with os?[05:08:12] <oxydon> by the end of this month i am organising an event in university, no theme particular theme just presentations about open source and free software[05:08:25] <_Lewellyn> dark bladder and love dessert. that sounds like a great group ;)[05:08:49] <oxydon> i expect it to gather some dozens of people and hopefully there will be some true enthusiasts[05:09:15] <_Lewellyn> oxydon: hand out copies of both osol 2008.11 and the latest sxce :)[05:09:26] <oxydon> you typically find those people discussing techy subjects in the breaks[05:09:51] <_Lewellyn> what suits one person doesn't suit the next[05:10:06] <oxydon> _lewellyn : i will for sure ;)[05:10:42] <oxydon> i was even going to do a presentation about osol but my brother is convincing me that the audience will not be very receptive to that[05:10:44] <_Lewellyn> it would help if you find a good, clear differentiation for them[05:10:55] *** darkbalder has quit IRC[05:11:10] *** darkbalder has joined #opensolaris[05:11:15] <oxydon> since most of them are perfect newbies that come just to make an idea about open source and free software[05:11:55] <oxydon> _lewellyn: what do you mean by differenciation?[05:11:57] <_Lewellyn> like "sxce = you install EVERYTHING and it is like the tried-and-true solaris that businesses have run in production for 25 years" and "osol = the commands are more like linux and you can install most things off the internet"[05:12:49] <oxydon> i see[05:13:12] <oxydon> i am supposed to speak and I have not yet found a precise subject[05:13:27] <oxydon> what can you suggest?[05:13:31] <_Lewellyn> no need to explain ips and everything. just focus on sxce is similar to solaris and osol is similar to linux and you'll get one group of people. and sxce can install everything and osol installs what you need when you need it will attract another group[05:14:16] <_Lewellyn> you may wish to find one more easy-to-digest bullet point, since marketers have proven many times that people like things in threes[05:14:45] <_Lewellyn> and is it going to be a solaris-y speech? or just generally about open-source software?[05:15:08] <darkbalder> osol is the first step for know solaris?[05:15:46] <_Lewellyn> if you want to keep a sun-focused speech to reinforce your osol message, i'd suggest showing how companies manage to "sell" open source software[05:16:06] <_Lewellyn> i.e. sun and mysql, open office/star office, solaris...[05:16:11] <oxydon> _Lewellyn: I am free to choose, the event is not about solaris, it's all about free software, but i can talk about whatever i want[05:16:20] <_Lewellyn> darkbalder: osol and sxce are both good introductinos.[05:16:33] <oxydon> i am afraid to lack knowledge about solaris[05:16:47] <_Lewellyn> oxydon: sun and opensource would be a great way to push osol and keep things clear by focusing on one company's products[05:17:12] <_Lewellyn> especially since of the 3 i mentioned, almost everyone's heard of 1 or 2[05:17:36] <oxydon> I agree with you[05:17:49] <_Lewellyn> even Alice Officeworker in Cubicle Wall 3 is likely to have heard about open office and/or mysql somewhere on the web[05:17:57] <oxydon> so i will base my speech on sun[05:18:23] <oxydon> maybe the sun business model? and then i talk about the products?[05:18:59] <oxydon> or i present osol, mysql, apach and php as a substitute to LAMP[05:19:00] <_Lewellyn> the income-generation models for mysql, staroffice/openoffice, and solaris are all slightly different and interesting[05:19:12] <oxydon> or i bring glassfish into play ..[05:19:15] <_Lewellyn> meh, lamp is so overhyped that people won't listen[05:19:16] <darkbalder> _Lewellyn, do you work at sun?[05:19:18] <_Lewellyn> nope[05:19:52] <_Lewellyn> i've just used sun's products for many years and i've funneled hundreds of thousands of dollars (at least) their way over the years, directly and indirectly :)[05:20:20] <oxydon> funneled means earned?[05:20:25] <oxydon> or spent?[05:20:37] <_Lewellyn> means that i've caused money to be spent[05:20:45] <oxydon> ah :)[05:21:01] <darkbalder> why?[05:21:41] <oxydon> ok then what i will do is to copy/paste some ideas you said in a paper, and then ask you some questions about the sun business model if you don't mind, this is an exciting subject i think[05:21:56] <_Lewellyn> darkbalder: many reasons. :) one being that for some tasks, sun's hardware excels. another being that sometimes sun has the best price. another is that i'm a lazy admin and like having the same operating system everywhere that it makes sense...[05:22:24] <_Lewellyn> oxydon: i'm just a customer. you would be better off talking to some of the sun employees who come into this channel :)[05:22:54] *** ggeecko has quit IRC[05:23:48] <_Lewellyn> oxydon: but i feel that a talk like "you've heard about open source, you might even know what it is. but you just can't figure out how a company makes money from giving their stuff away to whoever wants it. there are a number of ways, and today we'll look at one company that uses a few of those ways." would be interesting[05:24:55] <oxydon> this is awesome![05:25:24] <oxydon> i copy that :p[05:25:29] <_Lewellyn> heh ok :)[05:25:50] <_Lewellyn> i've had to "sell" open source to a couple of companies over the years. it's all in the presentation.[05:26:01] <_Lewellyn> it's easier to talk about these days, with all the media coverage[05:26:26] *** stux|RC-only has joined #opensolaris[05:27:06] *** popcornPanic has joined #opensolaris[05:30:54] <oxydon> done[05:31:18] <oxydon> first question that springs to my mind:[05:32:02] <oxydon> I understand that one can give a software for free and sell support/customisation for it[05:32:22] <e^ipi> and millions of dollars worth of machines to run the software[05:32:24] <oxydon> BUT, what if the software doesn't need any support or customisation at all?[05:32:34] <oxydon> i am talking with open office in mind[05:32:45] <oxydon> even mysql to an extent[05:33:08] <e^ipi> you'd run a business without support?[05:33:49] <e^ipi> that seems like a bad idea[05:34:38] <oxydon> e^ipi: yes but most of this software will run on a typical modern PC for small businesses .. so no expensive machines needed[05:34:53] <oxydon> e^ipi: support for open office?[05:35:11] <e^ipi> small business becomes big business[05:35:53] <e^ipi> a small business with an old dell in the closet running solaris becomes a big business that needs a few million in servers and support contracts for the lot of 'em[05:36:13] <oxydon> e^ipi: any one can type text or charts or drawings in open office with almost no help, if one doesn't how how to save a file there will always be someone around who knows .. not a big deal[05:36:23] <oxydon> so how does sun earn money with that?[05:36:38] *** loke_ has joined #opensolaris[05:37:00] <oxydon> e^ipi: i think i understand your point[05:37:57] <oxydon> you suggest that sun is building fidelity to its services so that "when" the businesses grow they will buy its servers?[05:38:27] <e^ipi> yeah, why not ?[05:39:05] <e^ipi> that's the reason why linux isn't just a couple greasy nerds hacking in some basement... people started to use it... then those people got big[05:39:35] <_Lewellyn> oxydon: for your specific example, sun sells staroffice for companies that need support. what kind of support? "oh my god. this customer sent us a word document with what they need in order to spend a million dollars. we can't open it." is a plausible example.[05:39:58] *** jamesd has joined #opensolaris[05:39:58] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jamesd[05:40:32] <_Lewellyn> that's part of why companies buy office rather than using openoffice. they know that if there's a problem, microsoft has support for them.[05:42:49] *** stux|RC has quit IRC[05:42:53] <_Lewellyn> and yes, part of why sun gives stuff away is to sell hardware[05:43:00] <oninoshiko> kind of... have you ever CALLED microsoft support? make sure you are sitting down and have you creditcard handy[05:43:05] <_Lewellyn> like apple, sun tries to make their money off hardware[05:43:09] <oxydon> e^ipi: not sure they think like that, because 1) neither, open office, mysql, glassfish, ..etc (exept solaris) suggest one should by sun's hardware neither now or for future evolution, 2) sun repeatedly says it's future is not in servers but in software, so i don't expect they maintain long term hardware strategies anymore[05:43:19] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: if you have a site license for office, you tend to get decent support ;)[05:44:06] <jamesd> _Lewellyn, sun makes the most money off of support.. they will often give you hardware if you buy support... especially if you buy platinum level[05:44:10] <_Lewellyn> oxydon: it's not a *stated* goal, but rather someone would feel that they've gotten good stuff from the company in the past and should see if the company's hardware works as well as the software.[05:44:15] <e^ipi> oxydon: 1) think "consolidating vendors", so you don't have to make 3 dozen phone calls to various companies, all of whom pass the blame to each other 2) the future is in /systems/ ( as in software + hardware + support )[05:44:31] <_Lewellyn> jamesd: yup. that was implicit in my phrasing earlier[05:44:37] <oxydon> _Lewellyn: but how many companies will need such a service for staroffice? do you find this is an interesting market for sun?[05:44:38] <_Lewellyn> i think you just joined, however :)[05:44:47] <oninoshiko> well the OS people are real $# at (*es dot .. I'd rather pay SMI for supprt... atleast then I know I'm getting something solid for it[05:44:57] <_Lewellyn> oxydon: apparently it's interesting enough for them to continue[05:45:59] <oninoshiko> where is the cost in contenuing? the cost is so low, that it's worth it just from an advertising perspective[05:46:08] <oninoshiko> (for OO.O)[05:46:48] <oxydon> i understand better now[05:47:34] <oxydon> so it is all about integrating solutions and marketing them as a whole[05:48:09] <oxydon> so that one will have a single hotline[05:49:06] *** loke has quit IRC[05:49:10] *** loke_ is now known as loke[05:49:11] <oxydon> i think if this strategy is understood well enough then it can be deployed quite easily by anyone[05:49:49] <oxydon> this is where i think my speech can become interesting :p heheh[05:50:12] *** stux|RC has joined #opensolaris[05:50:13] <_Lewellyn> oxydon: it's what red hat used to try to do (as well as the companies they purchased). but they've taken a weird turn somewhere and have managed to fragment their market[05:50:19] *** popcornPanic has quit IRC[05:51:04] <oxydon> i think they no longer distribute linux today, do they?[05:51:16] <oninoshiko> yes they do[05:51:26] *** robertbb has quit IRC[05:51:55] <oxydon> i don't know how they are thinking, i think they business model is interesting too, since it's not hardware driven at all[05:52:15] <oninoshiko> they just dont have a "free download" copy... the GPL doesnt require it (although there is Fedora and CentOS)[05:52:45] <oxydon> ah[05:52:53] <oxydon> i see[05:53:29] <_Lewellyn> they give you the sources. if you want it for no cost, you can build your own version (but you can't call it "Red Hat", due to trademark). and you won't get support.[05:53:44] <_Lewellyn> that's what centos is: a no-cost rebuild. (from my understanding)[05:54:12] <e^ipi> i'm pretty sure they only technically need to distribute the source to their customers[05:54:20] <_Lewellyn> i really have no idea where fedora fits into the picture. it's certainly not aimed at the same market as their "pay" linux[05:54:28] <e^ipi> the GPL doesn't say you need to redistribute source to everyone, only people that you distribute the binaries to[05:54:42] <oninoshiko> actually e^ipi is right, they only distribute sources to clients[05:54:53] <PinkFreud> CentOS is a free rebuild, minus the proprietary bits.[05:55:02] <_Lewellyn> e^ipi: yes. but if the customers can redistribute binaries based on those sources, and your gpl says that people can request sources from you...[05:55:15] <oninoshiko> yes, that is what CentOS is[05:55:23] *** Doc has joined #opensolaris[05:55:34] <PinkFreud> Fedora is essentially the testing ground. It's essentially bleeding edge, where RH is conservative.[05:55:44] <oxydon> fedora/redhat is something like osol/solaris afaik[05:55:52] <_Lewellyn> fedora *seems* like it's aimed at end-users[05:55:58] <PinkFreud> oxydon: indeed. probably an apt comparison. :)[05:56:18] <_Lewellyn> i really had a hard time getting an explanation of the 3 the other day. from users of them :([05:56:27] <oninoshiko> BUT they didn't distribute to YOU (just to whomever you got it from) so they have no obligations to you. OTOH whomever you get it from DOES[05:56:33] <PinkFreud> _Lewellyn: it is, for the most part.[05:56:54] <_Lewellyn> then the comparison isn't really apt :)[05:57:10] <PinkFreud> _Lewellyn: just like Ubuntu is Debian Sid (unstable) packaged into a release meant for end users.[05:57:19] <oxydon> fedora contains a lot of beta software and i think a beta kernel and the latest unstable version of almost everything to be tried before integration in redhat[05:57:28] <_Lewellyn> osol is essentially the "future" of sxce, from what i understand. and sx is historically the "early release" of the next solaris[05:57:40] <PinkFreud> The idea is that the distro is reasonably stable, while not getting too stale.[05:58:13] <oninoshiko> i sure the revisionists might like that[05:58:24] <_Lewellyn> that's one advantage of solaris. by controlling the kernel, they don't have to worry about "staleness" compared to other distros ;)[05:58:39] <PinkFreud> it's not a 1:1 comparison, but it's close enough :)[05:58:44] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: that solaris express is an early-release of solaris?[05:58:56] <_Lewellyn> that's how it's been marketed to me in the past[05:58:59] <oninoshiko> they also dont have to worry about the ABI changing randomly[05:59:12] *** felipecerda has joined #opensolaris[05:59:34] <_Lewellyn> in my book, the difference between sx and sxce is that now your input actually may make a difference ;)[05:59:43] * _Lewellyn kids, to an extent[06:00:22] <oninoshiko> if "the past" means "a couple of years"[06:01:26] <oninoshiko> *MY* imput hasn't amounted to a hill of beans so far (with OS).[06:01:53] <e^ipi> input comes in the form of .diffs[06:02:00] <felipecerda> hello[06:02:18] <_Lewellyn> e^ipi: yup. and that wasn't really an option even with sx10[06:02:45] <_Lewellyn> that's part of why sxce excites me. i usually migrate to sx closer to release, too. that may be part of it.[06:03:38] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: did you use solaris 9? did you use solaris express 10? did you use solaris 10? compare sx10 with sxce. you'll see far more transparency now.[06:03:40] <e^ipi> pretty sure SX doesn't exist anymore[06:03:43] <felipecerda> I have a question about screen resolution in opensolaris[06:03:46] <_Lewellyn> it doesn't.[06:03:47] <_Lewellyn> afaict[06:04:04] <_Lewellyn> sxce takes its place afaict. and that pleases me.[06:04:10] <e^ipi> felipecerda: same way that you'd do it in linux. xorg.conf[06:04:32] <_Lewellyn> the only thing that really displeases me is a dead horse.[06:04:54] <e^ipi> dead horse?[06:04:57] <oninoshiko> e^ipi: you know as well as i do, as i have stated it multiple times, that OS has choosen a direction in direct contrast to what i actually want. no amount of diffs with change that. normally that would not be a problem, except that there seems to been an expressed effort to make sure that what I want and what they want to do cannot co-exsist[06:05:09] *** stux|RC-only has quit IRC[06:05:12] <e^ipi> oninoshiko: so create your own distribution.[06:05:16] <felipecerda> i already did that[06:05:38] <oninoshiko> but what do i know? i just buy equipment (hint, hint)[06:06:12] <_Lewellyn> e^ipi: dead horse == opensolaris vs "opensolaris"[06:06:27] <felipecerda> e^ipi: i did it with xorg.conf but nothign happened. I was using the live CD though... i don't know if changes also take effect there[06:06:29] <e^ipi> if the amount of equipment purchase that the changed version generates minus the amount of equipment that you won't buy because of it is positive, it was a good move to ignore you.[06:06:38] <e^ipi> felipecerda: they don't[06:06:45] <e^ipi> _Lewellyn: oh... yeah... that was a mess[06:07:00] *** stux|RC-only has joined #opensolaris[06:07:01] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: how many major-version solaris releases have you seen?[06:07:14] <_Lewellyn> i'm willing to bet you never suffered through things like migrating to solaris 7[06:07:19] <felipecerda> e^ipi: so you'd recommend me to install opensolaris on my computer with a ATI video card?[06:07:40] <e^ipi> felipecerda: yes, if you want to change the configuration around[06:08:07] <e^ipi> _Lewellyn: technically there's been one major version of solaris... from Solaris 1 ( sunos4 ) to solaris 2 (sunos 5 )[06:08:19] <oninoshiko> e^ipi: you are running under the assumption that they it's an either/or situation, there is a 3rd option.[06:08:33] <e^ipi> oninoshiko: you buying equipment despite the changes?[06:08:33] <felipecerda> e^ipi: ok i'll try, i'm using it right now on my laptop and works like charm, 1280 x 800 but on my desktop... it just gets stuck at 1024 x 768[06:08:35] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: every major version, solaris does things which are unpopular with a distinct subset of their users. however, they almost always leave the old way in until it dies naturally.[06:08:45] <oninoshiko> _Lewellyn: 2.6, 8, 9, 10[06:08:51] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: i'm questioning whether the removal of cde is wise[06:08:55] <_Lewellyn> otherwise...[06:09:13] <_Lewellyn> e^ipi: i still die a little inside each time i type "solaris", you know :([06:09:20] <e^ipi> heh[06:09:21] <MACscr1> zfs is probably going to be faster for a "raid10" type setup for 4 dives versus an onboard raid controller, don't ya think?[06:09:35] <e^ipi> yes, probably[06:09:42] *** stux|RC has quit IRC[06:09:59] <_Lewellyn> and since starting at 5.7, the versioning suffered revisionism again, i consider all "solaris" "2.x" to be "major" releases.[06:10:00] *** felipecerda has quit IRC[06:10:11] <_Lewellyn> this works thanks to 5.5 and 5.5.1, for example ;)[06:10:18] <oninoshiko> MACscr1: i dont know about faster, i can tell you it will be be more reliable (and really if speed is all you care about, just get input from /dev/urandom)[06:10:29] *** felipecerda has joined #opensolaris[06:11:04] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: if you've used solaris back to 2.6, you've seen lots of things go the way of the dodo each release. solaris 11 will be no different.[06:11:09] <_Lewellyn> it's called "progress"[06:11:16] <_Lewellyn> if they didn't do it, they'd have windows :P[06:11:39] <_Lewellyn> you realize that windows vista 64-bit is the first version to not run windows 1.0 binaries?[06:11:46] <oninoshiko> its only really progress if it actually improves things, otherwise it's called "regress"[06:12:04] <oninoshiko> _Lewellyn: i call bullshit[06:12:17] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: can you point me to your bug reports via official channels as to your issues that are ignored?[06:12:41] <_Lewellyn> what? grab a windows 1.0 install. you can run things in vista but not vista/x64[06:13:06] <_Lewellyn> x64 killed the 16-bit subsystems[06:13:34] <_Lewellyn> they've seriously maintained backward compatibility for that long.[06:14:12] <_Lewellyn> that's a lot of the "real" issue with windows is that they make it a point not to break things.[06:14:20] <_Lewellyn> sun only cares about that for a few years. ;)[06:14:45] <oninoshiko> _Lewellyn: I have had a number of applications from that far back that most assuradly did NOT run in more recent versions of windows[06:15:38] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: i'm talking about properly-written core-os applications[06:15:51] *** anilg has joined #opensolaris[06:16:03] <oninoshiko> And I have ran Sol 8 bins in SXCE. thats more thne "a few years back"[06:17:03] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: how about dt apps? alanc has stated unequivocally that CDE/Dt is dying except for a few things that probably should live for compatibility (such as dtksh).[06:17:57] <_Lewellyn> hm. i'm not finding a legit download of ms-dos executive older than 3.1... i know there's a legit 1.01 version that used to be on microsoft's ftp[06:18:06] <_Lewellyn> wish i could remember the mskb # :([06:18:17] <oninoshiko> _Lewellyn: my critical apps are all console[06:18:43] <_Lewellyn> regardless, sun removes things that fall into disuse.[06:18:52] <_Lewellyn> and you've yet to point me at the bugs you've filed[06:19:03] <e^ipi> oninoshiko: good, then you should be unaffected by the changes[06:19:21] *** krisis has joined #opensolaris[06:19:26] <oninoshiko> e^ipi: i never bitched about dropping CDE[06:19:55] <oninoshiko> my biggest bitch is dropping support for an install from media[06:20:16] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: and where has it been said that's happening?[06:20:22] <e^ipi> oninoshiko: good, then you should be unaffected, since that's slated for putback to IPS[06:20:35] <_Lewellyn> just because that's how they're doing osol right now, that doesn't mean that's how s11 will be[06:20:53] <oninoshiko> e^ipi: when is this slated for?[06:21:04] <_Lewellyn> i recall asking alanc in channel the other day about that and he said that was part of why sxce still uses svr4 packages[06:21:15] <e^ipi> oninoshiko: some time in the future, likely before it puts back to SXCE[06:21:20] <_Lewellyn> at least, that's my recollection of what he said[06:23:04] <oninoshiko> until it actually happens, its vapor, and until it's atleast being seriously talked about it i will contenue to dislike IPS[06:23:30] <oxydon> is it true that solaris scales better than linux on big machines even on x86-64?[06:24:02] <oninoshiko> oxydon: last i looked the linux kernel has problems with more then 4 CPUs[06:24:17] <oxydon> this would mean that even when zfs and dtrace and all the plus value when it will all go gpl'ed there will still be an advantage[06:24:51] <e^ipi> oxydon: i doubt that it'll go gpl.[06:25:16] <oninoshiko> oxydon: except that most users are not being multiprocessor at a high enough scale for it to matter (with a few exceptions)[06:25:19] <oxydon> oninoshiko: means current quad cores monoprocessor machines are its actual limit?[06:26:14] <oninoshiko> oxydon: it's not a limit per-se. you just start to get deminishing returns (this applies to all platforms, but some more then others)[06:26:39] <oninoshiko> will you double the cost of your machine for a 5% improvement?[06:26:44] <oxydon> e^ipi torvalds expessed the same doubt recently, the ceo of sun answered that they only are waiting for gpl3 and that double licencing is imminent[06:26:48] *** chowmeined has quit IRC[06:27:07] <oninoshiko> GPL3 code cannot be included in the linux kernel[06:27:13] *** masafumi_ohta_ has joined #opensolaris[06:27:31] <e^ipi> oxydon: no, he didn't.[06:27:33] <oninoshiko> (gotta love the GPL, the only license that is incompatable with itself)[06:27:37] *** masafumi_ohta_ has left #opensolaris[06:27:52] <_Lewellyn> oxydon: link please.[06:27:59] <oxydon> he says: (his own words) "GPL2 is a bit hard for us due to many contributed sources under many licences, not easy to merge everything into GPL2"[06:28:14] <e^ipi> oxydon: slashdot people want it to be GPL so they can steal things[06:28:27] <oxydon> _lewellyn: got it in a bookmark, give me a moment[06:28:28] <jamesd> oninoshik1, don't forget that linux changes API and ABi so often even the kernel modules shipped in the "official tarball" relase are likely to be incompatible with other bits in the same kernel.[06:28:39] <e^ipi> but aside from some stretches in interpretation, it's unlikely to happen[06:29:05] <_Lewellyn> cddl is a very sane license[06:29:19] <_Lewellyn> even debian includes cddl stuff ;)[06:29:27] <oninoshiko> and even if it did, it still doesnt matter because GPL-3 code cannot be included with the kernel[06:29:36] *** robertbb has joined #opensolaris[06:29:41] <oninoshiko> *linux kernel[06:29:45] * oxydon posts the link in seconds[06:30:43] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: re ips: until you've seen it on sxce, reserve judgement. we have nfc how it will actually work, as "consumers", in a "real" solaris release yet.[06:30:44] <jamesd> oxydon, beware of marketing folks writing checks the rest of the company can't and has no interest in honoring.[06:31:06] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: there's reasons it's not the packaging format for sxce yet.[06:31:24] *** mibyt has joined #opensolaris[06:31:33] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: and it's been stated that you can keep your beloved svr4 packages on an ips system.[06:32:40] <oxydon> jamesd: but that's the ceo of sun! he wrote that in his own official sun blog[06:32:51] <e^ipi> oxydon: no he didn't[06:32:53] <_Lewellyn> oxydon: url.[06:33:06] <oxydon> right now :p[06:33:08] <e^ipi> theregister claimed he did. he did not.[06:33:18] <e^ipi> theregister hates sun, so best to just ignore them[06:33:20] <_Lewellyn> i'm still hunting for this ms-dos executive binary :P[06:33:24] <oninoshiko> ill happily judge now, but i always reserve the right to change said judgement upon the arrival of new informaion[06:33:25] <_Lewellyn> theregister hates everyone[06:33:49] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: then keep your judgement to yourself for now, as an uninformed judgement is not useful.[06:34:01] <_Lewellyn> citing concerns is useful, damning something sight unseen is not.[06:35:03] <_Lewellyn> that's applicable to anything in life, btw :)[06:35:33] <oninoshiko> i will not. I have seen IPS as it exsists, hardly sight unseen. In other news I would judge a house based on how i see it now, not "oh, we'll fix the water damage and termite infestation"[06:35:49] <_Lewellyn> that's not a proper analogy.[06:36:04] <_Lewellyn> you're judging a house based on "we have the foundation down and a bit of the frame up"[06:36:16] *** mibyt has quit IRC[06:36:25] <e^ipi> the electrician hasn't even been there yet[06:36:41] <_Lewellyn> hell, we only have an idea as to the shape of the thing, still[06:36:43] <oninoshiko> funny, that's not how it's being advertised[06:36:45] *** mibty has joined #opensolaris[06:36:58] <e^ipi> oninoshiko: you're listening to marketing now?[06:37:05] <e^ipi> that's silly[06:37:18] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: they want people to use it, especially people familiar with similar systems. and sun's marketing department is generally ignorable[06:37:30] <mibty> Could anybody let me know if there is a way to install opensolaris sunpinyin package with scim wrapper on linux without having root privilege? (the package compiles)[06:37:46] *** kindyroot has joined #opensolaris[06:38:03] <_Lewellyn> mibty: that's a good question :)[06:38:28] <_Lewellyn> i wouldn't even know where to start since i use iiim, which i believe is not the same as scim[06:38:46] <mibty> _Lewellyn: indeed iiimf is much better than scim[06:39:02] <kindyroot> i am oxydon, got disconnected, i found the blog, i am searching for the post where he talked about that[06:39:23] *** KOHJU is now known as kohju[06:39:35] <_Lewellyn> oh, praise for the new iiim: i like that it doesn't live in each and every window anymore. at least i couldn't figure out how to change it in prior releases ;)[06:39:46] <oninoshiko> i tend to start my judgement of a product when marketing says "yes it's ready." telling people a system is ready when it isn't would be a really bad marketing plan. It's the kind of thing that causes people to get pissed and bad reviews to be shown...[06:39:46] <mibty> _Lewellyn: but i cant figure out a way to get iiimf sources yet, and I am not sure if it could be installed without root privilege :([06:40:11] <_Lewellyn> i'm not sure if iiim is open-sourced yet. i seem to recall someone saying it's only in sxce still :([06:40:16] <e^ipi> kindyroot: he didn't talk about that.[06:40:34] *** anti-opensolaris has joined #opensolaris[06:40:35] <e^ipi> kindyroot: give it up, it's not going to happen. it doesn't make much sense to do it[06:40:39] <mibty> _Lewellyn: but iiimf on opensolaris is a definitely plus to the system[06:40:54] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: if you've really used solaris for a decade, you ought to know to ignore 90% of sun's marketing[06:41:02] <kindyroot> e^ipi: please just give me a moment, i know what i'm saying ;)[06:41:16] <mibty> _Lewellyn: it does not break as usually as scim does and it runs faster than ibus[06:41:18] *** il_padrino has joined #opensolaris[06:41:28] <_Lewellyn> mibty: i agree. iiim and the windows ime system are the only two worth using :)[06:41:30] <e^ipi> kindyroot: you don't[06:41:38] <kindyroot> xD[06:41:50] *** anti-opensolaris has left #opensolaris[06:41:56] <_Lewellyn> e^ipi: i'll let him find the url. it'd be fun to see :D[06:42:05] <oninoshiko> that is ignoreing 90%. im only useing them to decided when to judge... nothing more. i have a whole rack of kit just for testing. (I don't trust ANYONE's marketing)[06:42:40] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: history should tell you that if they're promising things that are nowhere near inclusion in solaris express, it's vapor until proven otherwise.[06:43:16] <mibty> _Lewellyn: ms ime actually is not that compatible with gtk running on windows though . . .[06:43:31] <kindyroot> e^ipi: here's the link: http://blogs.sun.com/jonathan/entry/one_plus_one_is_fifty[06:43:32] <kindyroot> :p[06:43:39] <_Lewellyn> mibty: i have very few problems with gtk on vista with qq input[06:44:27] <mibty> _Lewellyn: well qq on windows does not use gtk, you could try pidgin windonws, which use gtk, which has some glitches with ms ime.[06:44:30] <MACscr1> so if zfs isn't a cluster file system, how would I use it with an iscsi san? Basically all I need is the ability to provide a LUN to each one of my xen domu's that are running on my centos servers[06:44:47] *** oxydon has quit IRC[06:44:50] <e^ipi> kindyroot: i fail to see how you inferred that there were GPL plans from that[06:45:03] <_Lewellyn> kindyroot: nowhere in there does he state choosing gpl nor dual-licensing[06:45:17] <_Lewellyn> kindyroot: he simply said that gpl3 couldn't even be considered at that time[06:45:19] <oninoshiko> MACscr1: a cluster FS is one that provides for locking so two (or more) machines can access the same data-set at the same time[06:45:55] <_Lewellyn> kindyroot: he could (should?) have worded it differently, but i suspect he wanted to keep linux user interest.[06:46:10] <MACscr1> oninoshiko: right. on my other cluster, im actually just using a single volume group and giving individual LV's to each domu[06:46:14] <oninoshiko> so you can provide access to different datasets to each VM[06:46:16] <kindyroot> This has nothing to do with being afraid of the community (if it was, we wouldn't be so interested in seeing ZFS everywhere, including Linux, with full patent indemnity).[06:46:26] <_Lewellyn> mibty: i use the qq ime even with gtk programs.[06:46:29] <kindyroot> cpy/paste[06:46:49] <_Lewellyn> i do not like ms pinyin. it is ugly and does not like directx games :([06:47:02] <kindyroot> "Remember, we can't even pick GPL3 yet - it doesn't officially exist."[06:47:07] <e^ipi> kindyroot: it's still a bit of a stretch[06:47:09] <oninoshiko> or you can just run a cluster FS on the exported iscsi volume. (iscsi just provides a block device... solaris has no clue what is in it)[06:47:19] <lukehasnoname> so[06:47:34] <e^ipi> esp. since that's over a year and a half old , and all the other evidence indicates that GPL isn't a possibility[06:47:34] <lukehasnoname> goddamnit, it sounds like I missed an interesting discussion[06:47:40] <_Lewellyn> kindyroot: that last quote simply says "we can't judge whether it's viable or not, it's vaporware as far as that is concerned, right now"[06:48:00] <kindyroot> e^ipi: i agree with you, he didn't make it very clear, no promises in his text[06:48:03] <_Lewellyn> i see no other sane reading, in context[06:48:14] <_Lewellyn> lukehasnoname: not really :P[06:48:18] *** kleppari has quit IRC[06:48:38] <kindyroot> the original torvalds note to with jonathan answers can be found here: http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/6/12/232[06:48:54] <mibty> _Lewellyn: interesting, anyway, I do not use windows that often as did I in the old days, so I have no say on this issue . . .[06:49:04] <_Lewellyn> mibty: likewise :)[06:49:09] <oninoshiko> kindyroot: i agree with e^ipi, that was a pretty weak inferance. and even if it were GPL3d (is there an echo in here?) it still cant be put in the linux kernel[06:49:23] <_Lewellyn> mibty: sadly, i do not know the answer to your question, still :([06:49:43] <_Lewellyn> kindyroot: we could follow the link, yes[06:49:51] <e^ipi> kindyroot: he was diffusing a situation at the time...[06:50:03] *** darkbalder has quit IRC[06:50:15] <lukehasnoname> _Lewellyn: talking about IPS?[06:50:25] <_Lewellyn> kindyroot: most of his statements there are couched in olive branches[06:50:34] *** ParfaitAmour has left #opensolaris[06:51:06] <_Lewellyn> lukehasnoname: a bit. and a bit about other things.[06:51:07] <kindyroot> i agree my inference was false[06:51:27] *** kleppari has joined #opensolaris[06:51:49] <kindyroot> it was just a diplomatic answer to linus, it led me to false conception[06:52:31] <kindyroot> but why did sun allow zfs to be in bsd?[06:52:37] <oninoshiko> lukehasnoname: summation: i dont like IPS because i dont like repos. i like DVD. IPS doesn't permit me to install from this, therefore i dont like it, but i shouldnt have an opinion about IPS because it isn't done and it will (allagedly) be able to do this at some unspecified time in the future.[06:53:09] <oninoshiko> kindyroot: sun didn't allow it. the CDDL is compatible with the BSD license... they had no choice in the matter[06:53:25] <kindyroot> aah ok[06:53:45] <oninoshiko> (not to say i think there was a lot of crying at sun about it)[06:53:54] <kindyroot> so linux can consider a fragmented licencing as well[06:54:22] <kindyroot> to allow parts of it to be gpl3'ed or even bsd, no?[06:54:54] <e^ipi> nope[06:54:59] <oninoshiko> no, the GPL2's terms prevent the inclusion of CDDL code (or GPL3 code, for that matter)[06:55:16] <e^ipi> GPL makes everything in the "project" GPL, whether you want to or not[06:55:29] <kindyroot> hahaha stallman tricks[06:55:38] <_Lewellyn> kindyroot: it's on purpose.[06:55:58] <_Lewellyn> and people really need to know that when gpl'ing their projects. too many don't realize it[06:55:58] <kindyroot> :D[06:56:34] <oninoshiko> BSD code can sometimes be put in linux (depending on which BSD license) because the GPL is a superset of the terms of the BSD licence's terms and the BSD license does not prohibit the addition of additional terms[06:56:37] <kindyroot> maybe some group of programmers will consider a rewrite of the solaris plus features[06:56:43] <kindyroot> particularly the zfs[06:56:44] <_Lewellyn> i actually need to compose a letter to the fsf. i expect a terse "go away" as a response :([06:56:48] <e^ipi> yes, stallman's a nice person in the same way that Lenin was... big words to convince people to do bad things in the name of good reasons[06:57:10] <_Lewellyn> e^ipi: lenin had better social skills.[06:57:15] <e^ipi> kindyroot: zfs is thousands of lines of code. it's unlikely that they'd be able to do it[06:57:27] <oninoshiko> _Lewellyn: last email i wrote them, i didnt even get that[06:58:15] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: i have very specific gpl-compatibility concerns. a lawyer advised me "get a response from them, in writing, clarifying that part of their license"[06:58:25] <kindyroot> e^ipi: not a strong argument: linux itself is even bigger and it was a Unix rewrite at the time[06:58:25] <lukehasnoname> e^ipi:[06:58:27] <_Lewellyn> gpl2 has many holes :([06:58:28] <lukehasnoname> what the hell[06:58:32] <lukehasnoname> that's just a shitty comparison[06:58:35] <lukehasnoname> and you should know it[06:58:39] <oninoshiko> _Lewellyn: that was the exact reason for my email, actually[06:59:00] <e^ipi> kindyroot: right, well that took 15 years[06:59:06] <oninoshiko> well, I sent the email without consulting a lawyer first[06:59:13] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: i've had good luck with getting at least a polite "go away" from them.[06:59:16] <e^ipi> if in the next decade they get ZFS, we'll probably have moved on to something better[06:59:18] <oninoshiko> but good luck :)[06:59:26] <lukehasnoname> Comparing mass murderer and ruiner of country to a guy who writes software licenses and the most used compiler ever is ludicrous[06:59:35] <kindyroot> e^ipi: i got your point, sun will still hold the advantage[06:59:48] <_Lewellyn> and i've been advised that if they raise no objection to the specific example, they'll be hard-pressed to convince a judge of infringement.[06:59:58] <_Lewellyn> it's a very specific edge-case. sadly gpl is full of them :([07:00:16] <e^ipi> lukehasnoname: yes, you're right... it was hyperbole, as intended[07:00:34] <lukehasnoname> Several people at my university are putting money on Sun being out of existence within 5 years[07:00:38] <_Lewellyn> i think e^ipi and i both enjoy hyperbole analogies :)[07:00:43] <oninoshiko> _Lewellyn: you shouldnt judge the gpl2. its not the final version :p[07:00:48] <_Lewellyn> lukehasnoname: people bet that in 1985.[07:00:51] <e^ipi> lukehasnoname: heh, right... highlight "university"[07:00:56] <lukehasnoname> I say Sun needs to migrate to something similar to Red Hat, but do it better[07:01:00] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: that's the license the code in question is under.[07:01:00] <e^ipi> as in, people who haven't seen industry in 10 years[07:01:19] <e^ipi> see: "ivory tower"[07:01:20] <robertbb> I reckon Sun's about to clean up and emerge as the leader in storage[07:01:24] <_Lewellyn> e^ipi: while still being a core market for sun ;)[07:01:33] <lukehasnoname> _Lewellyn: true[07:01:34] <_Lewellyn> robertbb: and virtualization[07:01:54] <e^ipi> _Lewellyn: perhaps, but i'm not sure that i'd take their predictions on the future of industry as particularly valid[07:01:58] <oninoshiko> sun has remade themselves multiple times. I won't put money against them... but i am somewhat concerned[07:02:09] * il_padrino is gone.. autoaway after 15 min [BX-MsgLog On][07:02:24] <lukehasnoname> I think benr is right, Sun needs to polish their management interfaces[07:02:27] <robertbb> I don't know enough about virtualization to comment, but they really have it right with storage as far as I can see. Commodity hardware, open platforms, smarts in software licensed such that a community can take the base and build an ecosystem.[07:02:40] <lukehasnoname> Except I can't grow my raidz[07:02:42] <lukehasnoname> >_>[07:02:44] <e^ipi> il_padrino: you know bitchx hasn't been maintained in years, and IIRC has several known security bugs[07:02:50] <_Lewellyn> e^ipi: honestly, my predictions circa solaris 2.1 have proven totally false. so i've stopped trying. i'm just pretty sure that sun's at least as secure as apple right now :)[07:02:54] <lukehasnoname> e^ipi: they working on that one, too?[07:03:07] <e^ipi> lukehasnoname: http://milek.blogspot.com/2009/03/whats-coming-in-zfs.html *shrug*[07:03:10] <oninoshiko> lukehasnoname: its comming (i know... hipocrite)[07:03:11] <_Lewellyn> e^ipi: i recall thinking hp-ux was going to emerge the "victor" of unices[07:03:12] <e^ipi> looks like it[07:03:27] *** oxygen-a1dict has joined #opensolaris[07:04:17] <lukehasnoname> OK, I'm not trolling: Is there any one area or homepage where I can see all the current development on Osol and ZFS? Is opensolaris.org worth anything, because opensolaris.com is pretty stale.[07:04:31] *** tamr has quit IRC[07:04:51] <lukehasnoname> oninoshiko, how can you not like repos?[07:05:13] <oninoshiko> os.o has forums (which are also the mailing list) that are pretty useful[07:05:16] <robertbb> Hmm, ZFS is getting dedupe?[07:05:21] <robertbb> That's sexy.[07:05:38] <oninoshiko> lukehasnoname: screwed to many times by repo maintainers[07:05:38] *** cwebber has quit IRC[07:06:15] <oninoshiko> maybe SMI will be the first to not do that, im not so willing to bet on it[07:06:18] <_Lewellyn> lukehasnoname: they often "silently" upgrade things, making a duplicable environment hard to promise[07:06:39] <kindyroot> " ... And to prove the sincerity of the offer, I invite you to my house for dinner. I'll cook, you bring the wine. A mashup in the truest sense." Jonathan Schwarz to Linus Torvalds, hahaha[07:07:38] *** gm152 has quit IRC[07:08:56] *** _setuid_H has joined #opensolaris[07:09:05] <e^ipi> _Lewellyn: release/ is stable (unchanging) more or less[07:10:58] <_Lewellyn> e^ipi: i'm talking about other repo-based package management systems[07:11:15] <_Lewellyn> e^ipi: i'm unfamiliar with ips, and it's not "finalized" yet, anyhow[07:11:22] <_setuid_H> Morning all[07:11:53] <e^ipi> _Lewellyn: just saying, there's no reason why a bugfix-only repo can't exist[07:11:54] <_setuid_H> e^ipi: it will takes a long time to finalize it[07:12:35] <_setuid_H> e^ipi: i'm not familiar with ips too, but I'm playing it with it a lot to find if I'm not wrong about it[07:12:39] <_Lewellyn> but yeah, it's definitely not unheard of for a repository to get a "silent" -1 update, for example.[07:12:53] <oninoshiko> lukehasnoname: _Lewellyn sums it up nicely. When talking about busness critical machines we change versions of software when there is a "compelling reason," which is a nice way of saying "as least often as i can manage." At the same time I need to make sure that new systems are on the same releases as old systems (oh there was a bug sighlently entroduced in version a.b.c that was not in b.c.d).[07:13:08] <_Lewellyn> this can sometimes bring headers out of sync, causing software compiled on the newer system to be subtly "buggy" and no clue why[07:13:28] *** mibty has quit IRC[07:13:48] *** chowmeined has joined #opensolaris[07:13:56] <_Lewellyn> i recently hit this issue on a rhel machine, btw.[07:14:32] <_Lewellyn> yum gave us a -4 package of (i think) mysql. it behaved differently than the -2 that was installed from the same "stable" repository on an older machine.[07:14:58] <_Lewellyn> my client spent an extra few hundred dollars for something that realistically should not have happened.[07:15:52] <oninoshiko> "more or less" is why im so strongly worried about it, and why being forced into a transition to a repo based system makes my blood boil so. The DVD on my desk does not change. period.[07:15:58] *** taltamir has joined #opensolaris[07:16:31] *** oxygen-addict has quit IRC[07:16:33] <e^ipi> oninoshiko: and the DVD of your local mirror doesn't either[07:16:36] *** Dickinson_h2k has joined #opensolaris[07:16:52] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: every indication we've been given is that the install cd will have a complete repo[07:17:20] <Dickinson_h2k> cheers from Chile[07:17:23] <Dickinson_h2k> :)[07:17:36] <_Lewellyn> my worry is that say we use a repo to update to S11U2 and hold back one machine for some months. there's a "bugfix", and the package gets replaced. that 1 machine will be out of sync.[07:17:40] <_Lewellyn> Dickinson_h2k: hi :)[07:18:57] <Dickinson_h2k> hello :)[07:19:31] <oninoshiko> _Lewellyn: we shall see. I've seen alot of indications that were inaccurate. there is alot of emphisis on killing SXCE, not so much on letting be not deal with repos.[07:19:51] *** felipecerda has quit IRC[07:19:55] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: there is no "emphasis" on killing sxce[07:20:07] <e^ipi> oninoshiko: a local mirror of the repository is equivalent to a DVD full of packages[07:20:11] <jmcp> lukehasnoname: as I understand it, it's not just the actual ZFS code in the OpenSolaris kernel which needs to be ported, but also the VFS layer - that's what Pawel found when he did the FreeBSD port[07:20:36] * jmcp catches up[07:20:41] <jmcp> clearly it's been a busy afternoon[07:21:05] <oninoshiko> _Lewellyn: I keep seeing the topic come up.[07:21:11] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: the idea that i keep seeing is that osol and sxce will "merge" once all the packages can be included in osol, and ips is ready for sxce. i would not be surprised if the result kept the sxce name, since sx is well-known to long-time solaris users.[07:21:23] <e^ipi> oninoshiko: putting back IPS isn't the same as killing SXCE[07:21:24] <jmcp> _Lewellyn: in a few months IPS will be integrated into the ON consolidation[07:21:28] <_Lewellyn> naming has been sidestepped often.[07:21:33] <_Lewellyn> jmcp: i just said that ;)[07:21:43] <e^ipi> forget about naming, it's still a pain in the ass[07:21:50] <jmcp> and that will go a *long* way towards fixing the idiocy that we had with a separate install consolidation[07:21:57] <_Lewellyn> jmcp: and RE: VFS on linux. there's a LOT of NIH syndrome lurking there.[07:22:02] <jmcp> yeah[07:22:03] <jmcp> I know[07:22:12] <_Lewellyn> look at the protectiveness over resier's proposed changes[07:22:22] <jmcp> _Lewellyn: I expect to be having a lot of sleepless nights when IPS comes a-knocking to the NV cteam[07:22:31] <_Lewellyn> not even "let's see how we can bridge our views", but an unequivocal "no"[07:22:37] <jmcp> since I expect to be testing damned near *everything* they touch[07:22:56] <jmcp> _Lewellyn: shall we lump EFI in there too?[07:22:56] <_Lewellyn> jmcp: i'm sure i'll be lodging a few bugs as a long-time svr4 user :)[07:23:04] <jmcp> _Lewellyn: I bet you will[07:23:09] <Doc> IPS?[07:23:13] <_Lewellyn> jmcp: efi is irrelevant to zfs ;)[07:23:19] <elektronkind> in a lot of ways, IPS is so much better[07:23:20] <jmcp> _Lewellyn: under the NIH category[07:23:23] <_Lewellyn> Doc: the opensolaris package management[07:23:36] <_Lewellyn> jmcp: linux is based around nih[07:23:48] <elektronkind> but I'm still irked over having to get packages from a dedicated server... no file format AFAIK[07:23:55] <_Lewellyn> jmcp: i think the only reason jfs and xfs are supported is because of the companies backing them.[07:24:16] <_Lewellyn> jmcp: and i know of no way that ext? is superior to either, honestly.[07:24:22] <e^ipi> elektronkind: as has been said multiple times... you will be able to mirror to a local repository, and that repository will probably come on the DVD[07:24:44] <jmcp> elektronkind: this is what the Distro Constructor is for[07:25:14] <_Lewellyn> elektronkind: as i made the analogy earlier, ips is like an unfinished house still. things aren't yet ready to judge the final product, let alone move into it :[07:25:15] <jmcp> in fact, it's *precisely* for this - how else is Sun going to convince three letter agencies etc that they should move?[07:25:16] <_Lewellyn> :)[07:25:30] <oninoshiko> (16:32:41) alanc: right - once the various consolidation builds generate IPS packages, and the IPS team doesn't have to manually update their SVR4->IPS conversion data for each build, then IPS repo updates should come faster (and SXCE should go away, since we won't convert IPS packages back to SVR4 ones to build the SXCE images) [how do I read this other then "killing SXCE"?][07:25:34] <_Lewellyn> jmcp: CIA, FBI, UCB? ;)[07:25:54] <jmcp> yeah ... though how secure they really are I dunno :-)[07:26:30] <jmcp> oninoshiko: it's naming, only[07:26:36] <jmcp> well, not only, but mostly[07:27:35] <_Lewellyn> oninoshiko: if you read it in the context of my previous conversations with alanc on the subject, it's best to take it as "sxce should go away" == "sxce and osol will finally be in sync"[07:27:37] <elektronkind> e^ipi: that misses the big point though. I want to roll a package. *A* package. I want to then be able to have that package in the form of some type of file, same concept as a rpm, dev, or svr4 pkg stream and say "download it from http://mywebsite/foo.ips or whatever. Now, I have to run a package server? And if I want any sort of security, I can maybe proxy it using Apache because it the IPS server has no concept of access control?[07:27:49] <elektronkind> s/dev/deb[07:28:30] <_Lewellyn> elektronkind: how do you know ips servers won't have access control?[07:28:54] <_Lewellyn> elektronkind: i foresee a lack of enthusiasm if there's no access control[07:29:04] *** Cass1 has joined #opensolaris[07:29:09] <jmcp> iirc, I am sure I have seen comment from IPS team ppl indicating that we should be able to install from a specific file rather than necessarily having to setup a specific repo[07:29:12] <elektronkind> I get the whole utility of the package server concept, but to not have something more, shall we say, more bare-bones without having to deal with having to set up and maintain a server process for it[07:29:25] <elektronkind> I hope so[07:29:26] <_Lewellyn> and what's wrong with running a package server? you just suggested running apache to serve the file.[07:29:52] <_Lewellyn> and i have been told by a few people that ips will eventually be able to install files just fine from the filesystem.[07:29:57] <elektronkind> _Lewellyn: generally a web server is running on most jumpstart or private colo boxes anyway[07:30:02] <elektronkind> it's already there[07:30:08] *** sndcrb has joined #opensolaris[07:30:27] <_Lewellyn> elektronkind: what's to say they won't write an apache or nginx mod_ips?[07:30:44] <elektronkind> sure, but it doesn't seem to be in the wings at the moment[07:30:56] <_Lewellyn> and ips is not yet mature. i fail to see the point.[07:31:09] <oninoshiko> _Lewellyn: eventually may or may not come. When and if it comes, then we will talk. until then I don't want to be using it.[07:31:24] <_Lewellyn> a fully-featured repo server is putting the cart before the horse, if the package installer is still not ready for prime time[07:31:28] <elektronkind> anyway, I'm just venting spleen. I like the concept of IPS, I just think that the design flow for it jumped the shark too early[07:31:33] *** capaz has joined #opensolaris[07:31:46] <_Lewellyn> also, there is *nothing* to prevent the community from hosting an ips module for <insert web server here>[07:31:58] <_Lewellyn> i'm not either pro- nor anti-ips, per se.[07:32:09] *** Fullmoon has joined #opensolaris[07:32:24] * elektronkind has similar gripes about AI[07:32:25] <_Lewellyn> i just have specific concerns and i'm willing to let ips mature a bit, based on the promising things that have been said by people who matter.[07:32:29] <jmcp> elektronkind: if you haven't been venting spleen on the relevant mailing lists, why not?[07:32:30] <_Lewellyn> (aka not marketing)[07:32:49] *** stux|RC has joined #opensolaris[07:32:58] <elektronkind> jmcp: for lack of time, my own fault of course[07:33:12] *** Dickinson_h2k has quit IRC[07:33:13] <_Lewellyn> jmcp: i personally am not venting on mailing lists yet for the aforementioned reason: these things appear to be on personal roadmaps of people who are likely to get it done anyhow.[07:33:18] <e^ipi> switching topics, Gin: makes a nice, light snack.[07:33:39] <_Lewellyn> if things don't continue to be promising, then i'll certainly raise some noise.[07:33:43] <jmcp> _Lewellyn: yeah, the leads for IPS are people who I have a *lot* of respect for, and faith in[07:34:04] <elektronkind> I have sat in on a few AI calls though and had to actually explain to the team at one point how useful the concept of jumpstart's begin and finish scripts are, and why AI should have the same sort of mechanisms. At first, this was specifically precluded from the AI design spec[07:34:05] <_Lewellyn> jmcp: i'm not even sure who the leads are. i just know that there have been people who "matter" commenting.[07:34:17] <elektronkind> I was, to say the least, a bit flabbergasted[07:34:27] <_Lewellyn> e^ipi: do you deliver? i have some sailor jerry to share.[07:34:37] <jmcp> _Lewellyn: barts, sch, comay, dduvall...[07:34:43] <_Lewellyn> and some orange syrup from Herzegovina[07:35:36] <_Lewellyn> elektronkind: that's the point of solaris express, you realize. engineers don't realize which features are truly needed by the real-world, sometimes. and they pull things that seem irrelevant until people complain.[07:36:08] <_Lewellyn> elektronkind: as i said about sxce earlier, that's one of the best things. we can see how our input affects the progress and it appears to actually matter more this time around.[07:36:18] <elektronkind> oh I know that, that's the impetus that made me put the AI weeklies on my calendar and call in :)[07:36:23] <_Lewellyn> :)[07:36:25] *** Cass has quit IRC[07:36:59] <_Lewellyn> sun's done a lot of things i've disliked over the years. they'll continue doing so. but, in the end, they've made the right choices in the end (most of the time).[07:37:09] <_Lewellyn> my biggest concern right now is still the state of dt[07:37:10] <elektronkind> a lot of times I think that certain projects which cover "sysadmin" features have too many non-sysadmins designing/running them[07:37:40] <_Lewellyn> you should see my dtterm in 109 :([07:37:40] <elektronkind> "We never used this feature in the lab, so no one must be using it out in the real world" etc[07:38:31] <_Lewellyn> elektronkind: it's easy to fail to find a plausible use-case while brainstorming how to replicate/replace 15-year-old technology. believe me. :)[07:38:47] <_Lewellyn> it's also plausible to find an insufficient replacement for a feature[07:39:53] <elektronkind> yeah. jumpstart is one of those things that are near (and dear, but also kinda not ;) to me[07:40:06] <elektronkind> my jumpstart infrastructure is very ninja[07:40:39] <elektronkind> so, there's a lot of things I'd like to see improved with AI, and AI provides that opportunity... a really good one[07:41:04] <jmcp> good thing you joined the concalls then[07:41:47] <elektronkind> I'm really happy sun invites non-sun people onto them[07:42:24] <elektronkind> like, very thankful for that. It's a great way to feel like part of a process... moreso than just signing up on a -discuss mailing list[07:48:44] *** [lewellyn] has joined #opensolaris[07:49:34] *** sndcrb2 has joined #opensolaris[07:50:02] *** stux|RC-only has quit IRC[07:50:05] <jbk> evening[07:50:17] <elektronkind> hey jbk[07:51:19] *** kleppari has quit IRC[07:53:11] *** gnut has joined #opensolaris[07:53:21] *** sndcrb has quit IRC[07:53:38] <c00p> hi jbk[07:54:12] <c00p> wats happening ?[07:54:56] *** kleppari has joined #opensolaris[07:55:22] <c00p> anyone here running 108 and using the smb server ?[07:55:22] <jbk> just back from band practice[07:55:32] <c00p> wat u play ?[07:55:51] <jbk> keyboard/piano[07:57:43] *** capaz has quit IRC[07:57:51] *** [lewellyn] has quit IRC[07:57:52] *** cypromis has joined #opensolaris[07:58:14] <jbk> i was kinda drafted into it :)[07:58:20] *** [lewellyn] has joined #opensolaris[07:58:30] <jbk> i stopped by one day and messed around and was told i was now in the band[08:02:29] <codestr0m> alanc: what's the latest xorg work.. did it merge or is there still a fox 1.5 gate with more recent stuff?[08:02:30] <[lewellyn]> ok. i'm hoping i'm done crashing xchat[08:03:03] <[lewellyn]> is alanc around?[08:03:19] <codestr0m> jbk: would you be interested to help port a compiler or advise on certain sections that require a very deep knowledge[08:03:44] <codestr0m> [lewellyn]: he may ignore me, but 6 months ago sent an email on ogb-discuss so.. who knows ;)[08:03:50] <codestr0m> 6 minutes*[08:04:20] <jbk> what sort of compiler?[08:04:48] <codestr0m> jbk: it's open source.. should we discuss here or I pm you with the high level overview[08:05:08] <jbk> well think others might be interested[08:05:57] <[lewellyn]> codestr0m: ah. so he's alive, but ignoring irc. not a bad plan. i should do that ;)[08:05:58] <codestr0m> open64.. it's mostly used in hpc and there's a ton of research on it doing cool things. (google, hp, CERN and a few other universities use it)[08:06:46] <codestr0m> Fred Chow the lead sgi scientist has a lot of research in it.. it's easier to hack than gcc.. the porting guide is pretty clear and documented[08:07:02] <codestr0m> (by porting I mean to a new arch.. I'm trying to wrap up the port to fbsd and opensolaris)[08:07:31] <e^ipi> compilers are relatively easy[08:07:35] <e^ipi> i wrote one in python[08:07:36] <jbk> which arch?[08:07:42] <jbk> sparc?[08:07:46] <e^ipi> not a real arch[08:07:59] <codestr0m> e^ipi: compiler maybe, but optimizer like what this has is non-trivial[08:08:24] <codestr0m> jbk: yeah sparc.. I think you've got the most sparc asm knowledge around here or could at least help point others of where to look[08:08:25] <e^ipi> and nonportable either[08:08:35] *** fgd has quit IRC[08:08:48] *** [JT] has joined #opensolaris[08:08:52] <jbk> i don't know about that (most sparc asm knowledge).. I can read a specification, that's all :)[08:08:54] <codestr0m> e^ipi: if you're interested in code generation you should have taken a trip to Seattle for CGO[08:09:13] <jbk> but still sounds like an interesting endeavor[08:09:19] <e^ipi> should have doesn't help me now ;)[08:09:57] <codestr0m> jbk: ok. you wrote the disassembler :P so I think that counts for something.. if you're maybe interested hop on #open64[08:10:02] <e^ipi> regardless, i'll be doing an advanced compilers class over the summer as part of project "6 more credits to graduate"[08:10:12] *** fgd has joined #opensolaris[08:10:32] <e^ipi> because i enjoy it[08:10:35] <codestr0m> e^ipi: I'm senile.. http://www.cgo.org/cgo2009/ it's not until closer to the end of the month[08:10:48] <e^ipi> aww, balls[08:10:49] <e^ipi> march[08:11:11] <e^ipi> if it were may, i'd be there[08:11:28] <e^ipi> wouldn't even need to book a hotel[08:14:14] <codestr0m> e^ipi: are you pretty comfortable with asm and tweaking code generation?[08:15:41] <[lewellyn]> codestr0m is trying to recruit anyone who can potentially even read asm ;)[08:18:00] *** cypromis has quit IRC[08:20:59] <e^ipi> asm is really simple to read[08:20:59] *** kindyroot has quit IRC[08:21:04] <e^ipi> following it is the bitch[08:21:42] <[lewellyn]> e^ipi: especially good asm :P[08:21:43] *** gnut has quit IRC[08:22:22] *** jsoft has quit IRC[08:24:43] *** asarch has quit IRC[08:30:13] *** gnut has joined #opensolaris[08:31:25] *** ken1 has quit IRC[08:33:30] *** ken has joined #opensolaris[08:35:08] *** __ms_ has quit IRC[08:35:46] *** fkr has quit IRC[08:35:51] *** fkr has joined #opensolaris[08:37:31] *** kindyroot has joined #opensolaris[08:38:44] *** __ms_ has joined #opensolaris[08:50:19] *** logic has joined #opensolaris[08:50:59] *** krisis has left #opensolaris[08:52:41] *** kleppari has quit IRC[08:55:51] *** kate21de has joined #opensolaris[08:57:24] *** kleppari has joined #opensolaris[08:59:47] <[lewellyn]> oh, does the packager of ksh frequent this channel?[08:59:58] <[lewellyn]> ksh93, that is[09:00:54] *** bizkut has joined #opensolaris[09:00:59] *** stux|away|away has joined #opensolaris[09:01:45] <e^ipi> yeah, gisburn / nrubsig[09:02:38] *** zaarg has quit IRC[09:02:55] *** stux|RC-only has joined #opensolaris[09:03:39] <[lewellyn]> who appears to not be here atm. i wanted to say thanks for the quick packaging of 93t :)[09:03:48] *** logic855 has quit IRC[09:03:48] *** logic is now known as logic855[09:04:27] <[lewellyn]> no bash 4 yet though that i see. meh. not that i use bash :)[09:04:32] *** [JT] has quit IRC[09:04:56] *** beket has joined #opensolaris[09:05:26] <beket> Salute everyone. If anyone was kind enough to run http://stathisk.ath.cx/t_sysconf.c and paste me the output of the command, I'd be grateful to him/her.[09:05:43] *** jteo has joined #opensolaris[09:05:45] <e^ipi> "please run my random code"[09:05:50] <e^ipi> yeah... not going to happen[09:05:52] * [lewellyn] is naturally suspicious[09:06:07] <e^ipi> go install solaris on a machine and run it yourself[09:06:08] <[lewellyn]> meh. at a glance, it looks safe enough[09:06:27] <[lewellyn]> but i fail to see the point of this exercise[09:06:34] <e^ipi> if you'll take a look at opensolaris, you'll see that it's a livecd[09:06:41] <beket> but thanks for responding nonetheless :)[09:06:47] <beket> opensolaris doesn't boot to my pc[09:06:48] *** gnut has quit IRC[09:07:31] <[lewellyn]> beket: there's always virtualization. sun's vbox is apparently a very nice product ;)[09:08:31] *** fgd_ has joined #opensolaris[09:08:37] <beket> [lewellyn], thanks but a have a very very low spec machine. I'll stick around if you don't mind, in case someone else sees my message & runs the snippet. Thanks again :)[09:08:50] *** zaarg has joined #opensolaris[09:09:22] <[lewellyn]> seems it'd be faster to read the docs on sun's site... but whatever.[09:09:42] <[lewellyn]> i'm kinda curious if both cc and gcc like it, tho[09:09:43] <e^ipi> EC2 also has opensolaris zones[09:09:47] * [lewellyn] isn't finding out[09:09:54] <[lewellyn]> there's that. i forget about that[09:10:46] <elektronkind> jbk: you about?[09:11:03] <jbk> about to go to bed[09:11:04] <jbk> why?[09:11:24] <elektronkind> jbk: oh, just some questions re: the lld design/operation page[09:11:30] <elektronkind> but they can wait[09:11:31] <elektronkind> :)[09:11:36] <e^ipi> light bedtime reading[09:12:56] <[lewellyn]> heh :P[09:13:42] *** fgd_ has quit IRC[09:13:49] *** fgd_ has joined #opensolaris[09:13:51] *** mikefut has joined #opensolaris[09:14:34] <elektronkind> jbk: I'll just respond to your recent post with them :)[09:15:54] <jbk> ok[09:16:45] <[lewellyn]> so, how can i tell for sure if the i915 DRM kernel module is loaded?[09:18:04] *** stux|RC has quit IRC[09:19:11] *** stux|away|away has quit IRC[09:19:23] *** hsp has joined #opensolaris[09:20:15] *** fgd has quit IRC[09:24:59] *** __ms_ has quit IRC[09:26:28] <elektronkind> [lewellyn]: look for it in modinfo output?[09:26:37] <[lewellyn]> good idea![09:26:41] * [lewellyn] blames the hour ;)[09:26:53] <elektronkind> yeah, fuck a buncha DST[09:27:02] <elektronkind> I just realized that it's 4:30am here[09:27:02] *** beket is now known as Beket[09:27:05] *** nsuperbus has joined #opensolaris[09:27:34] *** stux|RC has joined #opensolaris[09:29:57] <[lewellyn]> it's 0030 here still[09:30:03] <[lewellyn]> gimme 90 mins to feel older[09:32:07] <[lewellyn]> hm. the i915 driver's loading. wonder why i'm not seeing the same performance i saw under 106... it's the same as 108 :([09:33:45] *** kate21de has quit IRC[09:34:27] <palowoda> How does one tell if the i915 driver is fast when you see it?[09:34:54] <[lewellyn]> palowoda: under 106, my windows didn't lag when i dragged them?[09:35:02] <[lewellyn]> i was able to run compiz?[09:35:36] *** kate21de has joined #opensolaris[09:35:50] <palowoda> Maybe you expect to much from the hardware.[09:35:55] <palowoda> too[09:35:56] *** stux|RC-only has quit IRC[09:36:01] *** kindyroot has quit IRC[09:36:33] <[lewellyn]> i expect similar performance now as i had 3 builds ago.[09:36:55] <[lewellyn]> i'm not joking when i say a 256kb oak vga card was faster under windows 3.1[09:37:07] *** bizkut has left #opensolaris[09:37:09] <[lewellyn]> does opensolaris/sxce come with any x or gl benchmarks?[09:37:28] *** xy|ox has joined #opensolaris[09:37:34] <palowoda> just the simple gl gears demo.[09:38:04] <palowoda> I won't even bother tracking performance on the i915 or intel graphics stuff. A waste of time.[09:38:11] <[lewellyn]> i don't have glxgears. i wanted to use that, as i normally do :P[09:38:12] *** stux|RC has quit IRC[09:38:28] <palowoda> When did they take that out?[09:38:29] <[lewellyn]> palowoda: it's not a waste of time to me. it's the core of usability if i can't move a window properly :P[09:38:35] <[lewellyn]> dunno. it wasn't in 106 either[09:38:45] <palowoda> Well get a real video card like an Nvidia.[09:39:18] <[lewellyn]> laptop. not an option.[09:39:40] <palowoda> My laptop has a Nvidia 7800GTX in it.[09:39:45] *** Beket has left #opensolaris[09:39:47] <[lewellyn]> then give me your laptop :P[09:39:58] <palowoda> You couldn't afford it.[09:40:17] <[lewellyn]> i'm not buying a new machine just to get around "performance dropped with new xorg"[09:40:23] <[lewellyn]> that's a valid bug, in my book.[09:40:32] <[lewellyn]> and how do you know what i can and cannot afford?[09:40:55] <palowoda> You afforded the wrong hardware to start with. :)[09:41:05] <[lewellyn]> i purposely specced this machine[09:41:28] <[lewellyn]> i945 is generally well-supported by every major os[09:41:36] <palowoda> Oh brother.[09:41:37] <[lewellyn]> it's the most popular consumer chipset[09:42:01] <[lewellyn]> it's not a GOOD chipset, necessarily, but it's the most widely-deployed intel chipset, right now.[09:42:25] <palowoda> Intel has never had graphics that impressed anyone.[09:42:52] <[lewellyn]> i'm not looking to impress. i'm looking to drag windows without them lagging behind my pointer :P[09:43:22] <[lewellyn]> i suspect this new i915 driver in 109 is also why i can't suspend[09:45:56] <palowoda> Log a bug on it. But I'd bet Intel graphics issues are not going to be the greatest priority.[09:46:10] <[lewellyn]> i'm trying to get valid data before lodging a bug[09:46:23] <[lewellyn]> and the intel drivers have been getting love lately[09:46:33] *** hsp has quit IRC[09:46:39] <palowoda> Yeah your proving it. :)[09:46:40] <[lewellyn]> they just lagged behind the new xorg 2 builds. it happens.[09:47:02] <[lewellyn]> the new xorg does things that X should have done ages ago. and i think that's affecting the driver[09:47:07] <[lewellyn]> like not running as root :P[09:47:29] <[lewellyn]> that's why suspend caused x to restart on i915 for 107 and 108, afaict :)[09:52:42] <palowoda> The funny thing is Sun and Intel have a lot of co-operation. But when it comes to the video side and laptops, well that is a different story. Just an opinion.[09:53:55] <[lewellyn]> do you have any data to back that opinion? from all appearances, they're supporting opensolaris at least as well as they do linux.[09:54:04] *** hsp has joined #opensolaris[09:54:46] <e^ipi> i'd say better; they're working on all sorts of crazy crap[09:54:53] <e^ipi> tickless kernel and what have you[09:55:16] <[lewellyn]> yeah. does opensolaris support the rng yet?[09:55:33] <e^ipi> no idea[09:57:22] <[lewellyn]> i should investigate that soon. hardware rng rocks.[09:57:57] <[lewellyn]> it's actually why i ran an i810 linux box for a while. i used it to serve entropy :)[09:58:26] <[lewellyn]> (my ss10 and ipc and ipx so did not do random...)[09:58:48] <CIA-40> Miles Xu, Sun Microsystems <Min.Xu at Sun dot COM>: 6589577 Huron does not discard and does transmit frames greater than maxFrameSize, 6809729 Panic in function 'e1000g_rxfree_func' on T2000, 6809877 e1000g E1000G_IPALIGNROOM code can be rewritten[09:59:38] *** lukehasnoname has quit IRC[10:01:41] <palowoda> lewellyn: I'm not sure Sun has any engineers working on the Intel video card drivers. I thought that was an xorg/intel issue?[10:01:51] *** luc^ has joined #opensolaris[10:02:07] <[lewellyn]> palowoda: intel works closely with sun.[10:03:48] <palowoda> They should work closer on the intel video drivers yes.[10:04:09] <e^ipi> patches welcome[10:05:06] <palowoda> Xorg does need patches I'd agree.[10:05:27] <[lewellyn]> most of intel's problem is that they track mesa for 3d, imo.[10:06:02] <palowoda> Wait I thought they where using drm for intel graphics now?[10:06:21] <[lewellyn]> mesa is their reference implementation[10:06:27] <palowoda> Mesa is a waste of time.[10:06:35] <[lewellyn]> the gory details are on the intel linux site[10:06:49] <palowoda> But I don't care about linux.[10:06:51] <[lewellyn]> and apparently mesa's got good things cooking to land at the end of this year.[10:07:07] <[lewellyn]> that's where the gory details are, regardless.[10:07:19] <palowoda> I'd buy a new laptop.[10:07:20] <[lewellyn]> the same details apply to windows, linux, opensolaris, freebsd, and osx.[10:07:53] <[lewellyn]> then one of the core reasons for this laptop is needing replacement: to run the most popular intel chipset.[10:08:12] <[lewellyn]> how about you go and buy every i915 user a new chipset?[10:08:54] <palowoda> Sure send me the bill.[10:14:21] *** anilg has left #opensolaris[10:15:36] *** c00p has quit IRC[10:16:09] *** c00p has joined #opensolaris[10:39:02] *** prdelka has quit IRC[10:39:10] *** prdelka has joined #opensolaris[10:50:50] *** taltamir has quit IRC[10:51:09] <[lewellyn]> now let's see if daylight saving is handled properly in 8 mins ;)[10:52:13] *** ravv has quit IRC[10:52:44] <palowoda> Starting a big build process just for fun to see the timestamps.[10:53:32] *** fkr has quit IRC[10:53:56] <[lewellyn]> i'm superstitious. i don't trust gmake nor cmake with timestamp jumps :P[10:55:37] *** sven_ has joined #opensolaris[10:55:47] <palowoda> And 'make' is so intelligent on the dst border it's retroactive.[10:56:26] *** deftunix has joined #opensolaris[10:57:47] *** ahmed-tux has joined #opensolaris[10:57:47] *** fkr has joined #opensolaris[10:57:53] <ahmed-tux> hi[10:58:10] <palowoda> 10 secs[10:58:33] <palowoda> bingo[10:58:39] <deftunix> hi all, opensolaris and other solaris os support link aggregation and ipmp. What are the differences between link aggregation and ipmp? the difference is only the aggregation of interface supported by link aggregation? high availability is supported by ipmp and link aggr.[10:59:19] <deftunix> thanks in advance[10:59:23] <[lewellyn]> i've never been sure what ipmp is exactly[10:59:44] <[lewellyn]> so i chose trunking for my solaris 10 box that needed it (aka "aggregation")[11:00:18] <ahmed-tux> i don't know why gdm doesn't run when startup my machine , i must do everytime pfexec gdm , Xorg.log gives me UnloadModule: "kbd" UnloadModule: "mouse"[11:00:38] <deftunix> lewellyn: aggregation support high availability?[11:00:40] <[lewellyn]> ahmed-tux: 109?[11:00:54] <ahmed-tux> lewellyn: IPS 108[11:00:54] <[lewellyn]> deftunix: i don't know. don't even ask which machine has it :P[11:01:11] <[lewellyn]> ahmed-tux: hm. weird.[11:01:21] <[lewellyn]> have you checked for bugs?[11:01:31] *** MrDusty has quit IRC[11:02:00] <palowoda> lots of bugs on gdm with the newer xorg.[11:02:07] *** MrDusty has joined #opensolaris[11:02:12] <ahmed-tux> lewellyn: no[11:02:58] <[lewellyn]> ahmed-tux: i think there's been enough bugs filed against the new xorg and its fallout that yours probably exists[11:03:21] <[lewellyn]> i suspect it's related to the problem reported about 24 hours ago in here with sxce 109[11:03:46] <ahmed-tux> [lewellyn]: do yu use SXCE ?[11:03:48] <[lewellyn]> i think that person had an nvidia card[11:03:49] <palowoda> but sxce can install with the text install option and boot gui after that.[11:03:50] <[lewellyn]> yes[11:04:01] <[lewellyn]> palowoda: this is gdm; it's after install.[11:04:11] <palowoda> but that is indiana only[11:04:20] *** WormDrink has quit IRC[11:04:21] <ahmed-tux> [lewellyn]: yes i have nvidia card[11:04:53] <[lewellyn]> ahmed-tux: hm. too bad the sxce person isn't on right now. i'd love to compare notes between you so i could try to find the appropriate bug :P[11:04:58] *** deftunix has left #opensolaris[11:05:04] <palowoda> Yeah indiana isn't allowed all of the nvidia drivers.[11:05:10] <[lewellyn]> i think i saw one the other day related to this, but it was supposed to have been fixed in 109[11:05:17] <ahmed-tux> [lewellyn]: but when i type pfexec gdm , it workes[11:05:20] <[lewellyn]> it was something to do with input drivers[11:05:21] <[lewellyn]> yeah[11:05:21] <palowoda> fixed in 110[11:05:42] <[lewellyn]> i'm 99% sure i found that bug while looking for one of mine[11:06:40] <ahmed-tux> [lewellyn]: 'ill wait for 109 or 110 IPS[11:07:04] <[lewellyn]> ahmed-tux: if it's the same bug as earlier, i don't think it's fixed in 109 :([11:07:21] <[lewellyn]> i think a couple of things "fixed in 109" didn't quite make it[11:07:24] <ahmed-tux> [lewellyn]: i'll send tem the bug[11:07:35] <[lewellyn]> ahmed-tux: let me try to find it again :)[11:07:36] <ahmed-tux> them*[11:08:40] <ahmed-tux> [lewellyn]: http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6801598 the only bug that i knew[11:09:49] <[lewellyn]> is it a dvi monitor?[11:10:08] <ahmed-tux> [lewellyn]: no i have vga[11:10:13] <[lewellyn]> hm...[11:10:28] *** ttmrichter has quit IRC[11:10:31] *** Fullmoon has quit IRC[11:10:52] *** skullone has quit IRC[11:11:22] <[lewellyn]> and the bug you pasted is just one of the ones alanc mentioned that should be fixed in 109 :)[11:11:29] *** skullone_ is now known as skullone[11:11:33] <[lewellyn]> luckily none of those bit me[11:11:45] *** _setuid_H has quit IRC[11:11:51] <palowoda> But 109 is available.[11:12:04] <[lewellyn]> palowoda: not for ips. check /topic.[11:12:30] <palowoda> Oh that is right indiana is not the reference.[11:12:58] <ahmed-tux> [lewellyn]: no problem i do the tradutionel way , " runing gdm by command line untill the bug will fix"[11:13:14] <[lewellyn]> ahmed-tux: yeah. i'm looking for it, but i'm not finding it :([11:13:47] <ahmed-tux> [lewellyn]: i did too and i find only the URL that i sent it to you[11:14:20] <ahmed-tux> bbl[11:14:28] <ahmed-tux> [lewellyn]: thank you for your time[11:14:39] <[lewellyn]> good luck[11:14:57] *** ahmed-tux has quit IRC[11:15:16] *** perlmongo has quit IRC[11:15:39] <[lewellyn]> hm. a bug that's been bugging me was supposedly fixed in 107. but i still see it in 108 and 109[11:15:59] <palowoda> I'll bet most of the xorg bugs settle out around build 110 and later.[11:16:10] <[lewellyn]> Release Fixed solaris_nevada(snv_108)[11:16:31] <[lewellyn]> i shouldn't be seeing this one anymore in 109, certainly[11:16:54] <palowoda> Hey alanc has a lot on his plate right now.[11:17:20] <[lewellyn]> mmhmm...[11:17:33] <[lewellyn]> oh too bad ahmed left. i wanted to know if he was getting core :([11:17:49] <[lewellyn]> if so, i think i found his bug[11:18:59] <palowoda> If it ends up related to gdm it's always a couple of weeks behind to get the fix in.[11:19:26] <[lewellyn]> this would be an nv bug[11:20:01] <[lewellyn]> in any case, it's something that would end up on alanc's plate...[11:20:02] <palowoda> You mean an older version of the nv driver?[11:20:21] <_coredump_> hi, is there a working (free)nx-client for opensolaris? nomachine client is for solaris-sparc only.[11:20:22] <palowoda> Actually John Martin handles the Nvidia stuff.[11:21:34] <[lewellyn]> palowoda: i'm willing to bet that it would pass by alanc to verify what's up[11:22:04] <palowoda> John Martin is Sun's only contact engineer with Nvidia.[11:22:15] <[lewellyn]> _coredump_: i don't really know much about freenx. but i'm assuming you're on x86. you can use a solaris/x86 binary just fine, most likely.[11:23:04] *** Ramdac_ has joined #opensolaris[11:23:58] <Ramdac_> Hello guys,I'm intending to switch to OpenSolaris so i'd like to know its advantages and disadvantages over linux[11:24:19] <palowoda> The advantage is it's not linux.[11:24:38] <palowoda> LNU you know.[11:24:39] <Ramdac_> why linux is good?[11:24:52] <Ramdac_> why?linux is good[11:24:52] <palowoda> God is good.[11:25:06] <[lewellyn]> ok. bugzilla bug 7017 is certainly not fixed for me :([11:25:12] <palowoda> Computers are evil.[11:25:15] <Ramdac_> is it easier than linux or harder[11:25:38] *** hrist has quit IRC[11:25:51] *** hrist has joined #opensolaris[11:26:09] <[lewellyn]> powertop's working right in 109 again for me tho...[11:27:06] <Ramdac_> palowoda: is it worth to leave linux and go for it[11:27:16] <palowoda> Come on nobody important right now is making news on solaris power savings mode.[11:27:39] <palowoda> Ramdac_: I have 14 personal computers. It's a hardware problem.[11:27:42] *** e1kg has joined #OpenSolaris[11:28:07] <[lewellyn]> Ramdac_: for most things, you probably won't notice a difference from linux[11:28:20] <[lewellyn]> especially if you get the sxce distro of opensolaris[11:28:36] <[lewellyn]> any differences you notice, ask in here :)[11:29:33] <Ramdac_> lewellyn: ok why then some companies uses open solaris?[11:29:51] <palowoda> Becuase they like it.[11:29:53] <[lewellyn]> opensolaris will become the next version of solaris. and solaris is *very* widely used[11:30:34] <Ramdac_> does is it operate like linux?[11:30:42] <palowoda> but better.[11:30:43] <[lewellyn]> using opensolaris ensures that they're aware of potential issues a long, long, time before they need to actually worry about them "now"[11:30:55] *** gray-- has joined #opensolaris[11:30:58] <[lewellyn]> Ramdac_: linux is a clone of unix. solaris is a unix.[11:31:09] <[lewellyn]> so there's more similarities for the user than differences.[11:31:58] <palowoda> And everone thinks the differences is a life changing experience.[11:32:14] <palowoda> everyone[11:32:30] <palowoda> It gets rather boring.[11:33:17] <Ramdac_> mmmm *thinking*[11:33:43] <palowoda> But it's fun to see some who try getting milk from a bull and complain about it.[11:33:47] <[lewellyn]> Ramdac_: if you have a spare computer (or at least hard drive), at least grab sxce and give it a spin[11:34:08] <[lewellyn]> just a heads-up, it IS currently under active development and you might find broken pieces.[11:34:23] <[lewellyn]> one known broken piece is the installer; you have to install in text mode right now.[11:34:48] <[lewellyn]> you usually want to anyway, so you can use the fancy new zfs filesystem (the graphic installer doesn't have a choice for it)[11:34:50] <Ramdac_> but its help is verbose right?[11:35:07] <[lewellyn]> the installer? very. it makes it hard to mess up the install :)[11:35:19] <[lewellyn]> pretty much give it a bit of information and press F2 :)[11:35:21] <palowoda> The text mode of SXCE versions are the best option.[11:36:15] <Ramdac_> can i have my hard drive formatted as ext3 fs[11:36:22] <[lewellyn]> not as a boot volume[11:36:27] <Ramdac_> shit[11:36:39] <[lewellyn]> ext3 is very underperforming, especially compared to zfs[11:37:20] <Ramdac_> what about programming on opensolaris is it fun like on linux?[11:37:39] <Ramdac_> does it provide all tools like on linux?[11:37:39] <palowoda> programming is the gateway to hell.[11:37:53] <[lewellyn]> define "all tools"?[11:38:16] <[lewellyn]> the interfaces differ slightly, but if you are used to writing good code, you won't notice.[11:38:19] *** RoyK has left #opensolaris[11:38:35] <[lewellyn]> but you get gcc, and you can download sun's compiler too.[11:38:47] *** kohju is now known as KOHJU[11:38:50] <Ramdac_> lewellyn: some IDEs, disassemblers and what about the gdb?[11:38:51] <[lewellyn]> sun's cc is a pretty nice compiler. fast, tight binaries.[11:39:02] *** KOHJU is now known as kohju[11:39:04] *** bahumbug has joined #opensolaris[11:39:11] <palowoda> gdb works just fine on solaris.[11:39:17] <[lewellyn]> gdb only for gcc-compiled stuff. the native debugger is FAR better[11:39:35] <[lewellyn]> and even better, you have dtrace, so you can poke around in a live, running application[11:39:52] <palowoda> How come Oracle requires you to use Intel's compiler on Linux?[11:39:59] <Berny> or mdb to stab the kernel from behind[11:40:04] <[lewellyn]> hee[11:40:23] <Ramdac_> and what about mounting drives is it mounted auto or i have to go to alter fstab[11:40:26] <[lewellyn]> but, definitely install the sun compiler :)[11:40:36] <palowoda> zfs doesn't do mounting.[11:40:36] <[lewellyn]> you get netbeans with it. if you like ides, you may love netbeans[11:40:49] <Berny> Ramdac_, we do have a volmgr to take care of removable media[11:40:50] <Ramdac_> sun compiler works for C++ also?[11:40:50] <palowoda> it's some new fangled way.[11:40:50] <[lewellyn]> with zfs, you shouldn't need to touch the fstab[11:40:54] <[lewellyn]> yup[11:41:07] <palowoda> it's magic[11:41:13] <tsoome> last time i attempted to use gdb i ended up using dbx in like 5 sec[11:41:27] <[lewellyn]> tsoome: dbx is worlds better than gdb :)[11:41:41] <[lewellyn]> i hate being on linux when something dumps core :([11:42:01] <palowoda> but linux users are not using sun's debuggers because it's not popular.[11:42:03] <tsoome> its because gdb did crash in at once.....[11:42:03] <[lewellyn]> "oh, let's load this core and oh yeah gdb... this is gonna be fun..."[11:42:22] <palowoda> it's available but not popular.[11:42:26] <Ramdac_> WOW! guys u convinced me really.[11:42:36] <Ramdac_> ok what distro u recommend?[11:42:45] <palowoda> SXCE[11:42:55] <Ramdac_> and stands for?[11:43:06] <Berny> solaris express community edition[11:43:16] <[lewellyn]> i like sxce (solaris express communtity edition) because it comes with *everything* if you do a full install[11:43:19] <palowoda> go to the opensolaris download site and it's available for download.[11:43:27] <Ramdac_> and what about games on it?[11:43:29] <palowoda> and it's free too.[11:43:47] <[lewellyn]> some newcomers from linux like the opensolaris distribution because the gnu tools are preferred there. but you can use them on sxce, too :)[11:43:48] <tsoome> if you are about to learn it - do yourself a favor and install with full install:D[11:43:51] <palowoda> Your playing the game not anyone else.[11:43:59] *** jteo has quit IRC[11:44:01] <Berny> chess, mahjongg, nibbles, mines, you name it[11:44:09] <[lewellyn]> yes. with a full install, you will not be missing much at all :)[11:44:15] <Ramdac_> does it have wine ?[11:44:18] <palowoda> God I love mahjongg.[11:44:20] <[lewellyn]> you can add wine[11:44:52] <palowoda> The best wine is from California.[11:44:52] <Ramdac_> and what about the drivers?[11:44:56] <[lewellyn]> dunno why it doesn't come with wine yet. probably because not many people need it[11:45:08] <palowoda> The best drivers are from Korea.[11:45:11] <[lewellyn]> it's got pretty good driver support[11:45:15] <[lewellyn]> what kind of hardware do you have?[11:45:23] <palowoda> All of the hardware.[11:45:42] <palowoda> Not the stuff you would buy.[11:46:03] <Ramdac_> nforce motherboard with nvidia video and audio[11:46:08] <[lewellyn]> you should be fine[11:46:14] <palowoda> got that too[11:47:52] <Ramdac_> but i'm intending to install it on my laptop[11:48:18] <palowoda> You have an Nforce laptop?[11:48:32] <Ramdac_> yes but nforce 430i[11:48:43] <palowoda> What brand laptop?[11:48:58] <Ramdac_> MSI[11:49:16] <[lewellyn]> it should work ok for you[11:49:33] <[lewellyn]> only thing is that there's no "suspend to disk"/"hibernate" yet[11:49:38] <palowoda> Interesting I didn't know they where using it in thier laptops. I'm using MSI on the motherboards with solaris.[11:49:54] <palowoda> Works well too.[11:50:20] <Ramdac_> on linux the audio driver had problems cuz it was nvidia the sound comes from both speakers and headphones[11:50:32] *** matts0 has joined #opensolaris[11:51:32] <[lewellyn]> only thing i can suggest is to try it :)[11:51:46] <Ramdac_> i'm gonna try it[11:51:47] <[lewellyn]> if you have problems, we're here. well, there's usually someone here :)[11:51:55] <palowoda> At least the Indiana is a live cd.[11:52:19] <palowoda> Nothing to lose.[11:52:22] <[lewellyn]> you can get sxce from opensolaris.org. it's about a 3gb dvd download.[11:52:59] <palowoda> He can still get the 108 of indiana and try the live cd.[11:53:32] *** sven_ has quit IRC[11:53:41] <Ramdac_> nah i'll go for sxce its more challenging ;)[11:54:23] <palowoda> Hey it's only download time. If you only have one system to play with well.....[11:55:00] <palowoda> I was going to say buy another system. :)[11:55:10] <palowoda> Just kidding.[11:55:14] <matts0> Hi all. A bit of advice if you would be so kind... I have successfully built my first IPS package on opensolaris using the instructions here (http://opensolaris.org/os/community/sw-porters/contributing/indiana-ips/). I am a little confused about what to do next to get it into the pending/contrib repo. I saw info on the porters page saying you could submit the source code through an "approved build system", but I had to modify a coup[11:55:47] <Ramdac_> lol[11:56:50] <[lewellyn]> matts0: you may wish to try back during more-active hours...[11:57:08] <[lewellyn]> i think there's few IPS users awake, and fewer people who would know the answer to that[11:57:41] <palowoda> Err it's still the weekend. Don't know if it makes a difference if they are awake.[11:58:35] <matts0> sure... when is the channel more active?[11:58:56] <palowoda> During bankers hours.[11:59:14] <matts0> US or UK bankers?[11:59:28] <palowoda> They are all broke at this point.[11:59:38] <matts0> Beat me to it![11:59:39] <[lewellyn]> um. "programmer's hours"... so you missed people by 2-3 hours :([12:00:11] <[lewellyn]> the time zone change tonight's throwing me off :P[12:00:42] <palowoda> Yeah it really screwed up my cat.[12:01:47] <matts0> What country are you guys in? Clocks don't change here in the UK until the 29th[12:02:10] <palowoda> 29th of what?[12:02:15] <matts0> March[12:02:27] <palowoda> Damn your a month behind.[12:03:30] <palowoda> Or a month ahead.[12:04:13] <palowoda> It just happend a couple of hours ago.[12:04:23] *** prdelka has quit IRC[12:04:35] *** prdelka has joined #opensolaris[12:04:51] *** nsuperbus has quit IRC[12:05:14] <tsoome> it was dst switch?[12:05:45] <palowoda> yes.[12:05:54] <tsoome> ah that explains...[12:06:10] <palowoda> It's 407 PST time right now.[12:06:31] <[lewellyn]> our wonderful president (with ties to the oil industry, of course) somehow convinced the country to change their clocks a few years back[12:06:49] <[lewellyn]> i can't wait till the practice is abolished completely[12:06:53] <palowoda> You get better gas milage with dst.[12:07:09] *** Roninkvf has joined #opensolaris[12:07:40] <palowoda> You arive at your destination an hour early.[12:08:14] <matts0> anyway I'll be off, make the most of your short day![12:09:05] *** matts0 has quit IRC[12:10:24] <palowoda> I don't know are a lot of people working today?[12:10:32] * fkr is[12:10:48] <palowoda> is it monday for you?[12:10:51] <fkr> no[12:10:57] <fkr> i work sunday -> friday[12:11:11] <palowoda> well hopefully you get extra.[12:12:34] <palowoda> Sunday has got to be the most boring day to work. Though admin's are usually taxed on the off hours.[12:12:50] *** Ramdac_ has quit IRC[12:12:57] <_dsw> pah - if you work oncall for who I work for you would be[12:13:03] <fkr> palowoda: sunday is perfect[12:13:05] <_dsw> i get slaughtered -[12:13:07] <fkr> nobody calls[12:13:13] <fkr> i can actually get stuff done[12:13:14] <_dsw> large estates guarentee at least 1 outage per night[12:13:31] <_dsw> morning felix[12:13:37] <fkr> hey![12:13:39] *** ahmed-tux has joined #opensolaris[12:14:12] <palowoda> Yeah but all the crap happens in the off hours during upgrades.[12:14:20] <_dsw> agreed yeah[12:14:41] <_dsw> we have an aix 5.2 -> 5.3 upgrade today, second time lucky - vcs 4.0mp3 -> 5.1mp1 too[12:14:45] <_dsw> im oncall again[12:14:47] <_dsw> going to be a long one[12:14:53] <fkr> palowoda: of course. thats why we offer 24/7 to our customers. and the off hours are the interesting ones[12:15:04] <[lewellyn]> _dsw: oh fun. :P[12:15:09] <_dsw> indeed[12:15:10] <[lewellyn]> you played with aix 6 yet?[12:15:12] <_dsw> yep[12:15:15] <_dsw> wpars and probevue[12:15:39] <[lewellyn]> my knowledge is of the aix 4 days. aix 5 was still new when i last touched it[12:15:40] <_dsw> was a while back now though - 6.1-beta was the aix version[12:15:45] <_dsw> hehe thats a while ago ;)[12:15:46] <_dsw> 4.3.3?[12:15:58] <[lewellyn]> 4.3.3 fed me for a while, yes ;)[12:16:07] <_dsw> hehe[12:16:12] <_dsw> bet you're no fan of hacmp then[12:16:16] <_dsw> archaic and nasty[12:16:31] <[lewellyn]> but someone was running down some of the features of aix 6. it sounds shiny[12:16:47] <_dsw> yeah it's great[12:16:59] <_dsw> very aligned with solaris10's feature sets - *cough* since open source *cough*[12:17:02] <[lewellyn]> it also sounds like aix is dropping to glacial release pace now.[12:17:04] <palowoda> Hey the upper bozo's pay for it.[12:17:06] <_dsw> probevue - the dtrace clone![12:17:25] <[lewellyn]> i'm actually impressed ibm hasn't killed and/or opensourced aix[12:17:29] <_dsw> yeah aix release are slow, but they keep the maintenance levels / TL's going[12:17:42] <palowoda> Pay to play.[12:17:46] <_dsw> yeah there are big calls for it to be opensores'd now[12:18:10] <palowoda> Yeah right.[12:18:35] <_dsw> i know, like that's ever going to happen[12:18:43] <_dsw> big blue the philanthropist?[12:18:55] <[lewellyn]> i kinda miss the late-90s/early-200s. there was enough competition that new releases were fast and furious enough from all vendors to keep a sysadmin in a heterogeneous shop with some job security :)[12:19:05] <palowoda> Like we are going to solve prostitution.[12:19:12] <[lewellyn]> well, they sold off ecs...[12:19:19] <[lewellyn]> er os/2 ;)[12:19:27] <_dsw> heh yeah - the typical bank setup was your spread of solaris/aix/hpux[12:19:40] <[lewellyn]> and maybe a vms box and some as/400s[12:19:44] <_dsw> hah yeah![12:19:52] <palowoda> What are banks buying now?[12:19:54] <_dsw> MVS, tandem and a bit of as400[12:19:56] <[lewellyn]> and if you were lucky, osf/1[12:19:59] <[lewellyn]> mmm mvs[12:20:02] <_dsw> mostly sun[12:20:12] <_dsw> and linux boxes too[12:20:16] <_dsw> dl585s aplenty[12:20:21] <_dsw> hp c300 blades, etc[12:20:28] <palowoda> Hope they aren't using their stock price.[12:20:38] <[lewellyn]> oh, there used to be plenty of os/2 in banks, too.[12:20:45] <_dsw> os/2 ..warp was it?[12:20:46] <[lewellyn]> can't forget token ring[12:20:51] <[lewellyn]> yup. warp 3.[12:20:55] <_dsw> ah[12:20:59] * [lewellyn] looks at the red box across the room[12:21:02] <_dsw> heh[12:21:08] <_dsw> sequent dynix :P[12:21:23] <[lewellyn]> i wanna run it under vbox but i can't image the disks :([12:21:26] <palowoda> God I remember dynix.[12:21:32] <_dsw> heh[12:21:33] <palowoda> And sequent.[12:21:44] <_dsw> thought dynix was sequent?[12:21:57] <_dsw> used to run it at my college years ago[12:22:04] <palowoda> Yeah I worked for Wyse who had a contract with tem.[12:22:07] <palowoda> them.[12:22:07] <_dsw> ah ok[12:22:10] <_dsw> wow, wyse[12:22:11] <_dsw> oldschool[12:22:21] <palowoda> SVR4.1[12:22:35] <_dsw> bet you had an autographed copy of the magic garden then ;)[12:22:36] <palowoda> Sequent hardware chips.[12:23:11] <palowoda> I had to deal with ATT and the ports of svr4.[12:23:21] <_dsw> excellent[12:23:47] <_dsw> wish I could say my history was as grandiose! hehe[12:23:58] <palowoda> It wasn't that fun.[12:24:03] <_dsw> :\[12:24:28] <palowoda> I was writting nfs stress tests back than.[12:24:38] <_dsw> ah right[12:25:05] <palowoda> 8 way 486 boxes.[12:25:18] <_dsw> imagine![12:25:28] <palowoda> You can't these days.[12:25:42] <palowoda> painfull[12:25:47] <_dsw> heh yeah[12:26:02] <palowoda> remember lotus?[12:26:08] <_dsw> which part?[12:26:45] <palowoda> The part that Sun eventually bought with ISC?[12:26:52] <_dsw> hmm can't say that I do[12:27:14] <palowoda> So much history, so much lost.[12:28:10] <_dsw> nostalgia ain't what it used to be ;)[12:28:40] *** ttmrichter has joined #opensolaris[12:28:43] <palowoda> Yet Linux isn't as new as we thought.[12:28:44] *** liza0 has quit IRC[12:29:00] <_dsw> if you consider it's '91 roots, nope - almost 20 years old[12:29:06] *** liza0 has joined #opensolaris[12:29:24] <_dsw> "hello minix users out there! .." hehe[12:29:44] <palowoda> I guess I'm an old fart. Started bsd in 82.[12:30:05] <_dsw> would that be 4.2?[12:30:13] <_dsw> or is that later..[12:30:15] <_dsw> yeah much later[12:30:17] <palowoda> 4.1 with megatest.[12:30:31] <_dsw> what i can remember from Peter H. Salus book anyway[12:32:11] <palowoda> megatest was bought out by teradyne.[12:33:12] <_dsw> i need to dash - nice taking to you mate[12:33:18] <_dsw> got a call[12:35:34] *** ahmed-tux has quit IRC[12:35:35] *** tosh has quit IRC[12:39:31] *** Gingillo has joined #opensolaris[12:42:12] *** lazlabs has joined #opensolaris[12:44:35] *** kohju is now known as KOHJU[12:45:42] *** KOHJU is now known as kohju[12:48:34] *** hsp is now known as hsp_away[12:56:29] *** ahmed-tux has joined #opensolaris[12:57:52] *** stux|RC-only has joined #opensolaris[12:58:29] *** Gingillo has quit IRC[13:03:59] *** _Lewellyn has quit IRC[13:04:18] *** asarch has joined #opensolaris[13:06:28] *** Cope_ has joined #opensolaris[13:17:27] *** Cope has quit IRC[13:24:10] *** Odin- has joined #opensolaris[13:30:05] *** liza0 has quit IRC[13:30:17] *** liza0 has joined #opensolaris[13:30:36] *** e1kg1 has joined #OpenSolaris[13:37:31] *** Cass1 has left #opensolaris[13:45:35] *** liza0 has quit IRC[13:45:56] *** liza0 has joined #opensolaris[13:47:13] *** piwi has joined #opensolaris[13:48:25] *** e1kg has quit IRC[13:49:59] *** [1]kimc has joined #opensolaris[13:52:01] <lazlabs> if i setup raidz on my 1Tb disk , i've minor space?[13:53:30] <trygvis> a raidz1 require more than 4 devices, raidz2 more than 3[13:53:40] <trygvis> err, raidz 1 require more than 2[13:54:45] *** _setuid_H has joined #opensolaris[14:01:47] *** ttmrichter_ has joined #opensolaris[14:03:55] *** kleppari has quit IRC[14:04:00] *** kleppari has joined #opensolaris[14:04:16] <lazlabs> ok trygvis[14:04:18] <lazlabs> with two hd , 73Gb SAS and 1Tb SAS[14:04:26] <lazlabs> i want to run zones, mysql tomcat on this server[14:04:33] <lazlabs> what it's the best solution for this?[14:04:56] <trygvis> kinda hard to give an answer without any requirements[14:06:37] <tsoome> guess u wanna run mysql on sas drive[14:07:04] *** piwi has quit IRC[14:07:06] <lazlabs> two sas drives[14:07:08] *** sndcrb2 is now known as sndcrb[14:07:21] <tsoome> ah yea[14:07:30] *** kimc has quit IRC[14:07:30] *** [1]kimc is now known as kimc[14:07:33] <tsoome> but i suppose they have different rpm?[14:07:56] <lazlabs> yes[14:08:37] <tsoome> so for perfomance you dont wanna mix those drives....[14:09:16] <lazlabs> ok[14:09:17] <lazlabs> thanks[14:09:55] <tsoome> for redundancy you wanna get another 73GB and 1TB disks:D[14:10:10] *** jteo has joined #opensolaris[14:10:19] <lazlabs> i don't have more disk[14:10:20] <lazlabs> :P[14:10:46] *** nsuperbus has joined #opensolaris[14:13:12] *** ttmrichter has quit IRC[14:13:40] <oenone> use 73GB disk, and 1TB for (multiple) backups[14:13:42] <oenone> :P[14:14:23] <lazlabs> my db can be use more 50Gb[14:14:24] <lazlabs> :P[14:14:46] <monsted> then replace the 73g with a 1TB[14:14:59] <lazlabs> i cannot replace .. :P[14:16:10] <monsted> there[14:16:21] <monsted> there's no way to make a decent disk setup with those two, really[14:16:42] *** Roninkvf has left #opensolaris[14:17:58] <tsoome> well, simple one is to create 2 pools and set copies to have *some* redundancy[14:18:11] <tsoome> but it would suck for perfomance[14:18:27] <tsoome> will protect against bad blocks though...[14:18:35] *** smtms has joined #opensolaris[14:18:43] <monsted> but not against completely failed drives[14:18:55] <tsoome> but really, buy disks in pairs if its possible[14:19:01] *** smtms has left #opensolaris[14:19:11] <tsoome> then you can have mirrors at least[14:19:21] <tsoome> as disks will break eventually...[14:19:21] <monsted> sell the 73g on ebay and buy a 1TB with the proceeds - you'll have money left over :)[14:21:35] <tsoome> i think i'd do mirror 73GB (rpool) on that 1TB and have separate pool for rest, then at least my OS is protected in some extent[14:22:07] <tsoome> as well as most important data (if it fits in 73gb...)[14:28:02] *** _setuid_H has quit IRC[14:34:17] *** svcadm has joined #opensolaris[14:34:46] *** Snyper_de has joined #opensolaris[14:34:52] <Snyper_de> Hi[14:35:08] <svcadm> hiya[14:35:37] *** BlueM0nk has joined #opensolaris[14:37:01] <Snyper_de> i have a question. I downloaded via package manager in Opensolaris two pachages (SUNWsmbs and SUNWsmbskr). I want these two packages to copy on an other PC with open solaris. Where is the saving location on the first PC where i can find these packages?[14:40:24] <svcadm> package stuff lives in /var/pkg, but the downloaded package doesn't exist as a discrete file.[14:40:44] *** kleppari has quit IRC[14:40:49] *** kleppari has joined #opensolaris[14:41:21] <Snyper_de> ahh, ok... then i have a little problem, because the second pc is in my Company and has no direct connection to the internet to download this 2 packages :([14:42:13] <Snyper_de> So i have the idea to download the 2 packages at home and copy them to an USB stick to carry it to my company PC ...[14:42:40] *** parceval has joined #opensolaris[14:43:15] <svcadm> I was going to suggest setting up a local repoistory mirror, but that will be rough if you don't have internet access.[14:44:06] <svcadm> You could setup a repository mirror in a virtualbox guest, and then take the virtualbox guest to work, I guess ... it's a little rube goldberg, though.[14:45:28] <Snyper_de> hmm, ok thank you... i will try it out. :) I wish you a nice sunday :)[14:46:01] <Snyper_de> bye[14:46:06] *** Snyper_de has quit IRC[14:46:06] <svcadm> good luck .. this might be helpful: http://blogs.sun.com/jensd/entry/creating_an_opensolaris_repository_mirror[14:46:45] *** xRaich[o]2x has joined #opensolaris[14:47:40] *** [1]kimc has joined #opensolaris[14:51:20] *** noyb has quit IRC[14:57:54] *** kimc has quit IRC[14:57:55] *** [1]kimc is now known as kimc[15:03:30] <lazlabs> how add a "secure user" for administrative permissions[15:03:31] <lazlabs> ?[15:03:52] <svcadm> useradd[15:04:47] <lazlabs> but[15:04:48] <lazlabs> how?[15:07:03] <hrist> man useradd?[15:07:03] *** perlmongo has joined #opensolaris[15:07:06] <svcadm> ummmm .... type: useradd .... if you're unsure about the syntax, look at: man useradd. There are a gazillion examples in the internet for creating a user account on a UNIX (or OpenSolaris) system.[15:07:12] *** AxeZ has joined #opensolaris[15:07:43] <svcadm> s/in/on .... *sigh* ... before I know it I'll be referring to "the tubes"[15:10:24] *** lesterc has quit IRC[15:11:31] *** fkr has quit IRC[15:11:33] *** fkr has joined #opensolaris[15:12:24] *** BlueM0nk has quit IRC[15:14:30] *** hsp has joined #opensolaris[15:17:58] *** kohju is now known as KOHJU[15:18:19] *** gaveen has joined #opensolaris[15:18:57] <lazlabs> svcadm[15:19:04] <lazlabs> but all people can execute pfexec??[15:19:21] <lazlabs> i add a new user with this id:gid -> user:other[15:19:27] <lazlabs> and can execute pfexec[15:20:23] <tsoome> o?[15:20:25] *** KOHJU is now known as kohju[15:20:25] <tsoome> so?[15:21:03] <svcadm> if you want the new user to be a "full admin" role, just like the first account created during installation, then make them a member of the "Primary Administrator" profile. Using useradd, it's the following option: -P "Primary Administrator". If you want their pfexec privileges to be different than that, then choose a corresponding profile name.[15:21:08] <lazlabs> i want to add a sysadm user , and not use root[15:21:16] *** ahmed-tux has quit IRC[15:21:52] <lazlabs> how i use from linux systems with sudo.[15:22:20] <svcadm> I don't understand what that question means.[15:22:26] <lazlabs> ok[15:22:30] <lazlabs> i've a root account[15:22:51] *** ahmed-tux has joined #opensolaris[15:23:03] <lazlabs> but i don't want to use this.. i think i need add a other user account and when i need to exec some commands i need root permission[15:23:16] <lazlabs> i think i need to run it with pfexec[15:23:21] <lazlabs> with sysadm user[15:23:25] <svcadm> yes[15:23:31] <svcadm> that is what I just described[15:23:32] <lazlabs> ok[15:23:37] <lazlabs> add a new user[15:24:04] <lazlabs> named user[15:24:14] <svcadm> yes, and add to the useradd line the following: -P "Primary Administrator", which will allow that user account to pfexec anything.[15:24:15] <lazlabs> how i can add to administrator permissions[15:24:22] <lazlabs> ok, del first the user?[15:24:31] <svcadm> you don't have to delete any users[15:25:07] <lazlabs> useradd -P "Primary Administrator"[15:25:07] <lazlabs> UX: useradd: ERROR: Primary Administrator is not a valid profile name. Choose another.[15:25:19] <svcadm> are you on an opensolaris system?[15:25:43] <lazlabs> yes[15:26:57] *** hsp_ has joined #opensolaris[15:27:02] <svcadm> does this return anything: cat /etc/security/prof_attr | grep Primary[15:27:48] <lazlabs> in my opensolaris works but in solaris not[15:27:56] <lazlabs> opensolaris isn't a solaris system?[15:28:10] <svcadm> no, that's why it's called opensolaris[15:28:19] <Stric> similar, but not identical[15:28:24] <lazlabs> :/[15:28:34] <lazlabs> do you know how named in solaris?[15:28:40] *** hsp_away has quit IRC[15:29:55] <svcadm> actually, on my solaris 10 box, it's the same thing[15:30:12] <svcadm> uname -a -> SunOS dobby 5.10 Generic_137137-09 sun4u sparc SUNW,Sun-Blade-100[15:30:22] *** dusty__ has joined #opensolaris[15:30:32] <lazlabs> SunOS blackshell 5.10 Generic_137138-09 i86pc i386 i86pc[15:30:46] <svcadm> cat /etc/security/prof_attr | grep Primary -> Primary Administrator:::Can perform all administrative tasks:auths=solaris.*,solaris.grant;help=RtPriAdmin.html[15:30:56] <lazlabs> i don't have this line[15:31:03] <lazlabs> add by hand?[15:31:05] *** MrDusty has quit IRC[15:31:14] <svcadm> sure[15:31:18] *** hsp has quit IRC[15:31:28] <lazlabs> ok, add at end of file?[15:32:24] <svcadm> sure, why not[15:32:34] <lazlabs> but i need to restart later?[15:33:16] <svcadm> you shouldn't, not for this[15:33:29] <lazlabs> and howto reload permissions?[15:33:58] <svcadm> I don't know what "reload permissions" means .... follow the same syntax to assign them as described before.[15:34:24] <lazlabs> ok, thanks i try[15:34:29] <svcadm> good luck :)[15:35:01] <lazlabs> for example[15:35:32] <lazlabs> useradd -d /export/home/user -m -s /bin/bash -c "My newuser" -P "Primary Administrator" user[15:35:32] <lazlabs> ?[15:35:47] <svcadm> yep[15:36:07] <lazlabs> ok[15:36:09] <lazlabs> thanks :)[15:36:16] <lazlabs> but someone runs pfexec?[15:36:38] <lazlabs> or pfexec only get the permissions of a user listed on this attr[15:37:58] <svcadm> pfexec is similar to sudo in function .... the user defined above, when running pfexec foo, "foo" will be executed with "root" privileges.[15:38:07] <lazlabs> ok :)[15:38:11] <lazlabs> another question[15:38:24] <lazlabs> when i add a user, the group of this user it's other[15:38:26] <lazlabs> "other"[15:38:29] <lazlabs> :/ this is ok?[15:38:48] *** pavlos has joined #opensolaris[15:38:53] <lazlabs> on my other unix systems by default it's user:user , user:users, etc for example[15:39:08] <svcadm> I can't answer that for you really ... it's not an error. If you're happy with the group, then it's okay. If you want it to be a different group, then you should change it.[15:39:36] *** ken has quit IRC[15:39:38] <lazlabs> ok :), but i'm thinking about the security[15:40:28] <svcadm> what does security have to do with it? You're handing a user account a loaded "root" gun. It doesn't matter, from a security perspective, what their assigned group is.[15:42:00] <lazlabs> :)[15:42:14] <lazlabs> it's opensolaris so stable to run a productive servers?[15:44:12] <svcadm> That has been my anecdotal experience with the 2008.11 release so far, but I don't have it running on any systems that take regular severe beatings. It kind of depends on what "production" means for you. Stability means different things for a "production server" at a bank vs a "production server" for grandma's web blog.[15:45:09] *** _setuid_H has joined #opensolaris[15:45:29] <svcadm> also, if you're concerned about it, you might want to consider purchasing a support contract[15:48:04] <fkr> mmmh, with b108 my xscreensaver gets stuck[15:48:23] *** pavlos has quit IRC[15:49:14] <svcadm> there are some ugly interactions between compiz and some of the xscreensaver programs .... I keep mine here set to the bouncing cow[15:49:51] <svcadm> I'm still on 106 ... the pci-express bug bites me with 107 & 108[15:51:55] *** lazlabs has quit IRC[15:55:59] *** perlmongo has quit IRC[15:59:34] *** ken has joined #opensolaris[16:08:02] *** Andrew1 has quit IRC[16:09:09] *** AliBB has joined #opensolaris[16:11:34] *** ravv has joined #opensolaris[16:13:10] *** AliBB has quit IRC[16:13:43] *** AliBB has joined #opensolaris[16:15:40] *** fkr has quit IRC[16:20:37] *** fkr has joined #opensolaris[16:27:22] *** capaz has joined #opensolaris[16:29:11] <_setuid_H> Hi is there something wrong in this ipfilter configuration? ipfiter fails to maintance mode ...[16:29:12] <_setuid_H> map eri0 192.168.0.0/24 -> 0.0.0.0/32 portmap tcp/udp auto[16:29:12] <_setuid_H> map eri0 192.168.0.0/24 -> 0.0.0.0/32[16:29:15] *** ibseo has joined #opensolaris[16:29:24] <_setuid_H> sorry[16:29:30] <_setuid_H> map eri0 192.168.0.0/24 -> 0/32 portmap tcp/udp auto[16:29:30] <_setuid_H> map eri0 192.168.0.0/24 -> 0/32[16:29:32] <_setuid_H> this one[16:30:59] <tsoome> why it will go into maintenance?[16:31:33] <_setuid_H> interfaces should be bge0 not eri0, the text was taken from the website[16:31:56] <_setuid_H> but in the log is this[16:31:57] <_setuid_H> syntax error error at "bge0", line 9[16:31:57] <_setuid_H> /lib/svc/method/ipfilter: load of /etc/ipf/ipf.conf into alternate set failed[16:32:30] <_setuid_H> line 9 is the first line in my output[16:32:35] <_setuid_H> but change eri0 for bge0[16:33:12] <_setuid_H> here is the exact file http://gisburn.pastebin.com/d7d3e9a2e[16:33:36] <tsoome> its for ipnat, not ipf....[16:33:47] <_setuid_H> ok[16:33:55] <_setuid_H> that should be it[16:34:12] <tsoome> this contents belongs to ipnat.conf, not ipf.conf[16:35:45] <_setuid_H> ok[16:35:51] <_setuid_H> I moved it to ipnat.conf[16:36:05] <_setuid_H> but now it throws that ipf.conf could not be loaded[16:36:10] <tsoome> you may wanna look for ipf-howto, its really useful[16:36:11] <_setuid_H> but it's empty[16:36:20] <_setuid_H> tsoome: ok[16:36:46] <tsoome> you have ipf.conf there?[16:36:50] <_setuid_H> yes[16:37:07] <tsoome> whats the error message exactly?[16:37:14] <_setuid_H> /lib/svc/method/ipfilter: load of /etc/ipf/ipf.conf into alternate set failed[16:37:14] <_setuid_H> Not switching config due to load error.[16:37:30] *** authentic has quit IRC[16:38:00] <tsoome> for svcadm enable ipf?[16:38:05] *** ^authentic has joined #opensolaris[16:38:06] <_setuid_H> yes[16:38:14] *** ^authentic is now known as authentic[16:39:09] <tsoome> thats wierd, it should be able to use empty ipf.conf fine[16:41:04] *** e-jat has joined #opensolaris[16:41:29] <_setuid_H> i don't know[16:41:32] <_setuid_H> now it's online[16:41:35] <_setuid_H> strange[16:41:51] <_setuid_H> i just 3times disabled and enabled it and it works :-)[16:41:58] <_setuid_H> first time nothing[16:42:00] <_setuid_H> :-)[16:42:09] <_setuid_H> no refresh ...[16:42:19] <tsoome> it might have had some wierd state saved[16:42:21] <_setuid_H> ok thanks now[16:42:22] <_setuid_H> ...[16:42:24] <_setuid_H> yes[16:42:29] <_setuid_H> probably[16:43:05] *** Hauptstadt_Penne has joined #opensolaris[16:51:21] *** ibseo_ has joined #opensolaris[16:52:35] *** lazlabs has joined #opensolaris[16:53:42] *** ibseo has quit IRC[16:53:43] *** ibseo_ is now known as ibseo[16:54:03] *** javatexan has joined #opensolaris[16:57:22] *** hsp_ has quit IRC[16:59:53] <AliBB> do you know ifican found sunray srss services in the Package Manager list? no result after a search :/ do I have to add a repository?[17:00:10] <tsoome> you need to download it from sun.com[17:01:01] *** bnitz has joined #opensolaris[17:01:14] <AliBB> tsoome, the solaris package ?[17:01:36] <tsoome> yes[17:02:01] <AliBB> tsoome: do you have tested it ?[17:02:12] <tsoome> on opensolaris? no[17:02:24] <AliBB> thx tsoome[17:04:29] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC[17:06:10] *** goo1 has left #opensolaris[17:06:19] *** ryo3 has joined #opensolaris[17:07:35] *** Kernel86 has joined #OpenSolaris[17:07:38] *** narmac has joined #opensolaris[17:07:40] *** ryo3 has quit IRC[17:08:11] *** ryo2 has joined #opensolaris[17:08:23] *** ryo2 has quit IRC[17:08:32] *** javatexan has left #opensolaris[17:17:24] *** ahmed-tux has quit IRC[17:19:03] *** ahmed-tux has joined #opensolaris[17:19:57] *** stux|RC-only has quit IRC[17:24:31] *** e-jat has quit IRC[17:27:48] <lazlabs> someone have a nice bash prompt?[17:28:41] *** e-jat has joined #opensolaris[17:28:56] <monsted> yes, i quite like mine[17:29:13] <xRaich[o]2x> nope. but ksh :P[17:41:18] *** bubbva has quit IRC[17:41:25] *** ^authentic has joined #opensolaris[17:41:31] *** bubbva has joined #opensolaris[17:41:43] *** gehmehgeh has joined #opensolaris[17:45:28] *** authentic has quit IRC[17:45:40] *** ^authentic is now known as authentic[18:02:19] *** jteo has quit IRC[18:02:30] <lazlabs> how can i add a new harddisk[18:02:30] <lazlabs> ?[18:02:35] <lazlabs> with zfs support[18:02:35] <lazlabs> ?[18:04:32] *** dmoerner has joined #opensolaris[18:07:12] <svcadm> there's no such thing as a "hard disk with zfs support"[18:09:24] *** koan has quit IRC[18:09:28] *** koan has joined #opensolaris[18:10:11] *** tnnielsen has joined #opensolaris[18:10:25] *** lisppaste3 has quit IRC[18:11:14] *** Odin- has quit IRC[18:14:14] <lazlabs> svcadm howto add my second hd[18:14:19] <lazlabs> 1tb to my solaris system[18:14:29] <lazlabs> for example /backup[18:17:08] <svcadm> what storage pool do you want to add the 1tb to?[18:18:31] <lazlabs> svcadm[18:18:34] <lazlabs> ive a 2 disk[18:18:43] <lazlabs> 73Gb and 1Tb. Solaris are installed on 73Gb[18:19:03] *** bnitz has quit IRC[18:19:14] <lazlabs> i want to add the 1Tb disk for mysql db or backups[18:19:19] <lazlabs> i think i need /backups mount[18:19:24] <lazlabs> and format how zfs[18:19:59] *** gray-- has quit IRC[18:21:09] *** gray-- has joined #opensolaris[18:21:45] <svcadm> zfs format is a bit of a misnomer ... you add block devices to a storage pool, and then create zfs filesystems within that storage pool. Those zfs filesystems can then be mounted wherever you like. I strongly suggest that you read up some on ZFS, since it works _very_ different from traditional filesystems.[18:22:09] *** gray-- has quit IRC[18:22:35] *** _setuid_H has quit IRC[18:22:51] *** cmihai has joined #OpenSolaris[18:24:13] <Stric> lazlabs: look through the demos at http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zfs/demos/[18:40:40] *** gnut has joined #opensolaris[18:47:06] *** tosh has joined #opensolaris[18:52:19] *** Vonoff has left #opensolaris[18:54:59] *** Caino has quit IRC[18:55:35] *** Caino has joined #OpenSolaris[19:02:28] *** ibseo has quit IRC[19:02:43] *** mega has joined #opensolaris[19:05:14] *** capaz has quit IRC[19:10:55] *** ShadowHntr has joined #opensolaris[19:11:52] *** jollyd has joined #opensolaris[19:12:34] *** dunc has joined #opensolaris[19:14:59] *** jollyd has left #opensolaris[19:17:01] *** imajes has joined #opensolaris[19:17:40] *** luc^ has quit IRC[19:17:52] *** capaz has joined #opensolaris[19:18:56] *** Traveler9 has joined 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now known as authentic[19:52:23] *** MACscr_la has joined #opensolaris[19:53:26] *** derchris has quit IRC[19:56:29] *** e1kg1 has quit IRC[19:56:44] *** narmac has quit IRC[19:58:17] *** cwebber has quit IRC[20:06:39] *** elektronkind is now known as ldso1[20:07:56] *** capaz has quit IRC[20:08:05] *** ldso1 is now known as elektronkind[20:08:21] *** luc^ has quit IRC[20:08:22] *** wokolad has joined #opensolaris[20:08:40] *** capaz has joined #opensolaris[20:08:48] <wokolad> where are font files located(.ttf)?[20:10:10] <AliBB> how root can edit file /etc/inetd.conf , it says it's a read only file[20:12:16] *** wokolad has quit IRC[20:12:35] *** marko-b_ has quit IRC[20:12:35] *** kvanals has quit IRC[20:12:35] *** mui has quit IRC[20:12:35] *** dizko has quit IRC[20:12:35] *** pjd has quit IRC[20:12:35] *** trichobezoar has quit IRC[20:12:35] *** MACscr1 has quit IRC[20:12:35] *** Guest35315 has quit IRC[20:12:36] *** pcgod has quit IRC[20:12:36] *** ggbbgg has quit IRC[20:12:36] 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has quit IRC[21:04:24] *** ahmed-tux has joined #opensolaris[21:05:56] *** luc^ has joined #opensolaris[21:06:07] *** pjfloyd has joined #opensolaris[21:06:27] *** hajma has joined #opensolaris[21:09:24] *** d3xter has joined #opensolaris[21:09:39] *** jgracin has joined #opensolaris[21:09:42] <d3xter> hey[21:10:21] <hajma> Hi, I have b108 installed. I've filled up my home directory and now everytime i try to delete a file to get some space, I get 'rm: cannot remove `name-of-the-file': No space left on device, even if i try as root. web browser stopped working too. any hints? TIA[21:11:46] <ranks_> hajma: try delete some old snapshots[21:12:02] <d3xter> i'm not able to get resolve to work[21:12:45] <d3xter> ping with a ip-address works :-S[21:13:23] <ranks_> d3xter: verify contents of /etc/resolv.conf and /etc/nsswitch.conf[21:13:51] <hajma> ranks_: do you mean using Time Slider in System-Administration? there's only the install snapshot, is it safe to delete it?[21:14:31] <ranks_> hajma: check quotas first. if at quota, root won't be able to delete.[21:15:06] *** coldsun has joined #opensolaris[21:15:14] <coldsun> Hello[21:15:16] <d3xter> ranks_: resolv.conf looks good, and nsswitch.conf is default, i'm running 2008.11 livecd[21:15:27] <coldsun> Who can help me install UPS in my osol?[21:16:26] <ranks_> d3xter: if resolv.conf had nameservers and you are using fully qualified, and nsswitch.conf is pointing to dns, then you got me. If not using fully quallified entry, try using fqdn[21:18:06] <coldsun> Who can help me install Uninterruptible Power Supply in my osol?[21:18:15] *** Gekz has quit IRC[21:19:18] <d3xter> hm is there a german osol channel, because my english is bad ^^[21:20:19] <ranks_> d3xter: are you doing something like ping a or ping a.b.c ?[21:20:38] <d3xter> ranks_: ping ip-address works[21:20:45] <d3xter> and ssh to my root-server too[21:20:55] <d3xter> but ping google.com does not[21:21:22] <hajma> ranks_: so I removed the snapshot. it freed 129MB and now i am able to delete the files. I'm wondering how i will solve it next time when i'll have no snapshot to delete ;-)[21:21:27] <d3xter> and network-applet says that no networkinterface is activated[21:21:38] *** luc^ has quit IRC[21:21:43] *** javatexan has joined #opensolaris[21:21:56] *** javatexan has left #opensolaris[21:21:57] <ranks_> d3xter: does nslookup google.com work for you ?[21:22:24] <d3xter> ranks_: yes[21:22:28] <ranks_> hajma: buy more disk ? ;)[21:22:46] <ranks_> d3xter: perhaps you have a firewall issue ?[21:23:11] *** lisppaste3 has joined #opensolaris[21:23:31] <coldsun> Ok[21:23:38] <ranks_> d3xter: not sure. If nslookup works and pinging the ip number works, pinging the name should work too.[21:23:42] <coldsun> Who can help me with USB???[21:24:15] *** gehmehgeh has quit IRC[21:24:16] *** luc^ has joined #opensolaris[21:24:26] *** jgracin_ has joined #opensolaris[21:25:38] <ranks_> d3xter: can you ping 74.125.45.100 ?[21:26:20] <ranks_> d3xter: what ips do you get when you nslookup google.com ?[21:26:38] *** javatexan has joined #opensolaris[21:28:07] *** NoFX_SBC has joined #opensolaris[21:28:56] *** coldsun has left #opensolaris[21:29:12] <ranks_> d3xter: also check you have the correct netmask for your subnet.[21:31:18] *** jgracin has quit IRC[21:32:59] *** gehmehgeh has joined #opensolaris[21:34:29] *** PicCard has joined #opensolaris[21:36:18] *** master_of_master has quit IRC[21:36:28] *** kleppari has quit IRC[21:39:16] *** master_of_master has joined #opensolaris[21:40:48] *** gaveen has quit IRC[21:41:39] *** gaveen has joined #opensolaris[21:41:41] *** ranks_ has quit IRC[21:42:55] *** kleppari has joined #opensolaris[21:45:08] *** wonko has quit IRC[21:45:40] *** javatexan has left #opensolaris[21:46:00] *** wonko has joined #opensolaris[21:47:45] *** liza0 has quit IRC[21:47:58] *** liza0 has joined #opensolaris[21:52:46] *** asarch has quit IRC[21:56:57] *** nsuperbus has quit IRC[21:57:03] *** prudhvi has quit IRC[21:57:13] *** prudhvi has joined #opensolaris[21:58:00] *** cypromis has joined #opensolaris[22:03:52] *** ahmed-tux has quit IRC[22:04:36] *** ahmed-tux has joined #opensolaris[22:10:07] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC[22:10:14] *** bubbva has quit IRC[22:10:27] *** bubbva has joined #opensolaris[22:11:19] <[lewellyn]> so quiet in here today[22:11:22] <[lewellyn]> oh! ahmed-tux![22:11:48] <[lewellyn]> ahmed-tux: are you seeing a stack trace or core when x hangs/dies instead of launching gdm?[22:12:38] *** Chipdancer_ has joined #opensolaris[22:13:18] *** tombhadAC has joined #opensolaris[22:16:22] *** NoFX_SBC has quit IRC[22:18:00] *** fftb__ has joined #opensolaris[22:18:38] *** fftb__ has quit IRC[22:19:12] *** lesshaste has joined #opensolaris[22:20:14] *** Chipdancer_ has quit IRC[22:20:27] *** oninoshiko has joined #opensolaris[22:21:36] <MACscr_la> im assuming higher speed fsb's/ram would be extremely helpful to zfs storage boxes?[22:22:09] <jmcp> more ram and 64bitness will make a difference[22:23:08] *** MrDusty has quit IRC[22:23:21] <SQlvpapir> what he said ^^[22:23:40] <[lewellyn]> and high speed disks[22:24:29] <oninoshiko> MACscr_la: you can also have quite a bit of fun with the cache's if you have SSDs/DRAM disks...[22:24:46] <MACscr_la> hmm, ddr2 800 ram is so cheap these days though =P[22:25:08] <MACscr_la> oninoshiko: lol, definitely, but damn htose are expensive drives[22:25:15] *** pjfloyd has quit IRC[22:25:27] <oninoshiko> thats why i only said for cache :p[22:25:53] <MACscr_la> how would you use them for cache?[22:26:02] <MACscr_la> sry, im a bit of a noob when it comes to these[22:26:19] *** phobos_anomaly has joined #opensolaris[22:27:11] <oninoshiko> L2ARC can be created with a pool like this "zpool create raidz2 blah blah cache blah"[22:27:37] *** phobos_anomaly has left #opensolaris[22:28:14] <oninoshiko> you can also add what is called a "slog" which is a "seperate zfs intent log" offhand i dont recall the syntax for that...[22:29:09] <jmcp> MACscr1: the manpages are pretty good (zfs and zpool), there's also http://www.solarisinternals.com/wiki/index.php/ZFS_Best_Practices_Guide[22:29:10] <MACscr_la> im going to see if i can build a 2tb iscsi server for less than $1k[22:29:12] <oninoshiko> generally the L2ARC will improve read performance and the SLOG will improve write performance[22:29:33] <MACscr_la> oninoshiko: good to know. Thanks for that info. Wasnt aware.[22:29:45] <oninoshiko> YMMV[22:29:47] <jmcp> MACscr1: if you're going to have any chance of producing a box which will perform nicely, please ensure that you go 64bit and maxi-ram[22:30:04] *** jgracin__ has joined #opensolaris[22:30:17] <oninoshiko> 64-bit is easy anymore anyway[22:30:37] *** Chipdancer has quit IRC[22:30:40] <jmcp> oninoshiko: vv true[22:31:06] <MACscr_la> well, of course it would be 64bit. 32bit is so 2005 =P[22:31:10] <jmcp> oninoshiko: the temptation to use "the old box in the corner" which is only 32bit does loom large :)[22:31:13] <jmcp> MACscr1: heh[22:31:15] <jmcp> and true![22:31:34] *** sndcrb has quit IRC[22:31:37] <MACscr_la> nah, im going to build all of it from scratch[22:31:53] <oninoshiko> all my 32bit machines died last time i moved[22:31:54] <MACscr_la> i think i might have to skimped a bit on the nics though, might just use intel pro desktop nics[22:32:00] <MACscr_la> can get those for about $40[22:32:08] <MACscr_la> to bad they dont have dual port ones[22:32:11] <jmcp> I've never had any problems with Intel nics[22:32:14] <jmcp> either server or desktop[22:32:20] <MACscr_la> well, not for less than $100[22:32:26] <SQlvpapir> drivers are pretty darn stable[22:32:37] <oninoshiko> pro/1000s work well (i can voutch for the server ones)[22:32:54] <MACscr_la> yeah, i have a bunch of the server ones in my other iscsi san[22:33:04] <MACscr_la> but thats basically a dell based san (md3000i)[22:33:19] *** fftb__ has joined #opensolaris[22:33:29] <oninoshiko> i have a vendor that makes a 6 port card based on the pro/1000[22:34:00] <jmcp> does that attach just with the e1000g driver?[22:34:07] <oninoshiko> jcmp: yep[22:34:13] *** ShadowHntr has quit IRC[22:34:28] <MACscr_la> oninoshiko: care to share the vendor name?[22:34:29] <jmcp> cool![22:34:37] <jmcp> yeah, I'm interested too[22:34:48] <oninoshiko> sure: HotLava Systems... let me get the IP[22:35:13] <oninoshiko> (im more then happy to share, i want them to stay in bussness)[22:35:35] <svcadm> wow ... a nic with a heatsink![22:35:45] <oninoshiko> http://www.hotlavasystems.com/[22:36:10] <MACscr_la> care to share the price estimate on those?[22:36:59] <MACscr_la> 6 ports is cool, but man, that card goes out and you lose 6 ports[22:37:18] *** jgracin_ has quit IRC[22:37:18] <MACscr_la> but through two of those into an iscsi box, it would be pretty sweet[22:37:25] <oninoshiko> I would have to look up priceing... they are comperable per port with intel's 4 port card[22:37:41] <MACscr_la> ah, so not really any cheaper, that stinks[22:38:01] *** medar has quit IRC[22:38:11] <MACscr_la> but i guess if you hurting for pci ports, then they would be pretty good[22:38:20] <oninoshiko> (atleast that is what i recall.. goes to accounts payable, so not my problem)[22:38:30] <jmcp> MACscr1: if you're getting 50% more ports for about the same currency units, surely that *is* cheaper[22:38:40] <jmcp> oninoshiko: the joys of budgets[22:38:44] <MACscr_la> he said it was the same per port[22:39:17] <MACscr_la> aka, if it was $200 for a 4 port intell, it would be $250 for the 6port[22:39:27] <oninoshiko> correct[22:39:53] <oninoshiko> the advantage is the number of ports you can put in the system[22:39:58] <MACscr_la> i cant spell as you can see, but i can still do math =P[22:40:12] <MACscr_la> oninoshiko: right, its definitely still pretty cool[22:40:34] <MACscr_la> hmm, wonder if the pci bandwidth comes into play at all though[22:40:43] <MACscr_la> didnt really look at the specs[22:41:36] <oninoshiko> i did the math, they are using PCI-express 8x (iirc) which has just enough bandwith to support it[22:42:27] *** piwi has joined #opensolaris[22:42:31] *** gnb has quit IRC[22:46:31] <[lewellyn]> MACscr_la: if you're skimping on NICs, find yourself an old qfe card. and aggregate it :)[22:46:34] *** SQlvpapir_ has joined #opensolaris[22:46:37] <[lewellyn]> also, nwam is the bane of my existence[22:47:37] <[lewellyn]> oh. does anyone have a Sun Trunking -> aggr guide?[22:48:08] <samc> [lewellyn]: yeah, I'm pretty unkeen on attempts to do network config automatically too[22:48:13] <[lewellyn]> i know who would have most likely written it, if there is one. ;)[22:48:21] <[lewellyn]> samc: it works great. when it works.[22:48:23] <samc> there always seems to be some situation where it won't do what you want because it's trying to be too user friendly[22:48:34] <[lewellyn]> samc: problem is that i'm using wifi. wifi drops out occasionally.[22:48:57] <[lewellyn]> samc: it thinks it's smarter to try to activate my wired nic (with no cable connected) than to try to reconnect to the AP[22:49:03] <samc> like NetworkManager in ubuntu .. you can't (couldn't; it may have been fixed now) use it to configure a wireless connection without DHCP[22:49:18] <samc> [lewellyn]: ohh, heh .. that'd be annoying[22:49:22] <[lewellyn]> nwam isn't made for non-dhcp :)[22:49:33] <samc> does link state detection work on your wired nic?[22:49:54] <[lewellyn]> samc: it's almost as annoying as how it doesn't auto-reconnect to my preferred ESSIDs at boot[22:50:14] <[lewellyn]> and link-state connection works fine in other OSes and it worked fine in solaris 10[22:50:28] <samc> heh, funnily enough I regularly get that happening in Windows, but opensolaris has (so far) always reconnected to the wlan on boot[22:50:30] <[lewellyn]> if it doesn't work now, it's a bug with the rge driver[22:50:37] <oninoshiko> i havent had any problems with it, then again i always use my laptop in coffee shops and such... so that default behavior isn't an issue[22:51:15] <[lewellyn]> is there any way to revert nwam/dladm to "default" states so they are like on a fresh install?[22:52:01] <samc> [lewellyn]: dust off and nuke the disk from orbit[22:52:04] <samc> it's the only way to be sure[22:52:14] <[lewellyn]> that's not the answer :P[22:52:22] <MACscr_la> lewellyn: im using the iscsi san for vm's, so i dont need to aggregate the bw. More cards just mean more separate "streams" available[22:52:26] <[lewellyn]> nwam/dladm are just "magic" to me, atm. :P[22:52:51] <[lewellyn]> MACscr_la: so you aren't needing lots of concurrent access, just lots of bandwidth per port.[22:53:13] *** thebentzone has quit IRC[22:53:20] <[lewellyn]> MACscr_la: qfe cards are cheap these days, tho :)[22:53:48] <MACscr_la> lewellyn: lol, i dont even know what a gfe card is, guess i need to google that[22:54:44] <[lewellyn]> qfe was the quad-port 100mbit controller that sun tried to sell with practically every sparc box for the longest time[22:54:47] <oninoshiko> ok, lets try 109![22:54:53] *** oninoshiko has left #opensolaris[22:54:59] <[lewellyn]> it's 4 hme cards on a cheerio pci bridge.[22:55:19] <[lewellyn]> on x86, i think they show up as 4 hme nics[22:55:20] <MACscr_la> um, 100mb would be 12MB of actual transfer, that would suck[22:55:42] <[lewellyn]> heh, it works for my case where almost everyone using the server is on wifi ;)[22:55:58] <MACscr_la> need to do at least 80mb transfer, so have to be gigabit[22:56:07] <[lewellyn]> the most they expect is about 8<B/s[22:56:09] <[lewellyn]> MB[22:56:41] <[lewellyn]> yeah. i think if you're looking for sun gear, it'll be hard to find the multiport gigabit stuff cheap still, used.[22:57:00] <[lewellyn]> realtek is as cheap as you'll find, but intel is probably the way to go.[22:57:23] <[lewellyn]> well, realtek's not the cheapest, but the cheapest i'd even half-consider[22:57:35] <MACscr_la> oh, im definitely not looking for sun gear. Yeah, i definitely want to go with intel[22:58:15] <MACscr_la> i mean, sun is good, just out of my price range[22:58:21] <MACscr_la> at least for this project[22:58:26] <[lewellyn]> your best bet may to be a server board with integrated intel nics :)[22:58:41] <[lewellyn]> and you'd be surprised at how cheap "old" sun stuff goes for[22:58:52] <CIA-40> Alok Aggarwal <Alok.Aggarwal at Sun dot COM>: PSARC/2008/785 LZMA compression for lofi, 6785864 lzma compression support for lofi[22:59:29] <[lewellyn]> oh that's neat![22:59:57] *** estibi_ has joined #opensolaris[23:03:17] *** zaarg has quit IRC[23:04:15] *** init3 is now known as SimonCowell[23:04:18] *** nachox has joined #opensolaris[23:04:43] *** cypromis has quit IRC[23:05:38] *** SQlvpapir has quit IRC[23:06:02] *** cypromis has joined #opensolaris[23:14:51] <MACscr_la> hmm, a intel pro server adapter is about 2x the amount as the desktop version. Wonder if its really worth the extra[23:15:09] <MACscr_la> i know i have to go server version if i want a dual or quad port card[23:16:17] *** luc__ has joined #opensolaris[23:16:31] *** estibi has quit IRC[23:16:42] <[lewellyn]> jmcp: so yeah. bug 7017 still bites me, just not quite the same.[23:18:25] *** robertbb has quit IRC[23:23:14] <nachox> what's that bug?[23:23:28] <jmcp> nachox: compiz is the bug'[23:24:21] <nachox> it doesnt work in b107 and intel cards :)[23:25:00] *** luc^ has quit IRC[23:26:15] *** bahumbug has quit IRC[23:26:29] *** kleppari has quit IRC[23:26:34] *** kleppari has joined #opensolaris[23:26:50] <[lewellyn]> nachox: supposedly fixed with the new dri/drm in 109[23:26:52] <MACscr_la> think there really is going to be an actual huge difference with a gigabit card on a 32bit pci versus a pci-x?[23:27:09] <[lewellyn]> nachox: i seem to still have totally unaccelerated X :([23:27:12] <MACscr_la> i know technically there would be, but i wonder how much of a real world difference there would be[23:27:20] <jmcp> MACscr1: yes, I believe there would be[23:27:30] *** jgracin__ has quit IRC[23:27:39] <jmcp> your 32bit pci card is going to be limited to (iirc) 33MHz bus transfer speed[23:27:41] <[lewellyn]> MACscr_la: if the 32-bit card does offloading and the 64-bit card does not, the 32-bit card can theoretically win.[23:27:48] <[lewellyn]> jmcp: 66mhz[23:27:49] <nachox> [lewellyn], i'm still running b107 because b108 broke CIFS and b109 is not out got IPS[23:28:02] <jmcp> [lewellyn]: ah, right[23:28:10] <[lewellyn]> nachox: i'm thinking that tomorrow i'm going back to 106[23:28:18] <MACscr_la> lewellyn: good point. Since im thinking about doing desktop adapters, i would think none of them would do offloading[23:28:27] <[lewellyn]> i miss suspend altogether :P[23:28:28] <nachox> i hope you still have the old be[23:28:37] <[lewellyn]> MACscr_la: you never know until you read :P[23:28:42] <[lewellyn]> nachox: of course![23:28:54] <nachox> i wish suspend worked here... but i have NO idea how to debug it[23:28:55] <[lewellyn]> oh. though 109 fixed powertop for me...[23:29:10] <[lewellyn]> i don't either, else i'd get my 109 to suspend again[23:29:17] <MACscr_la> [lewellyn]: from what i have read, they dont. At least i dont see it listing[23:29:29] <nachox> syslog doesnt show me what device failed to revive[23:29:38] <[lewellyn]> using the power icon's suspend option will lock the screen, sys-suspend tells me it's not supported[23:29:42] <nachox> and i have no idea what to do with mdb[23:29:44] <[lewellyn]> oh wait. i bet i know why[23:29:57] <[lewellyn]> MACscr_la: i think the rtl8169 actually does[23:30:14] <nachox> tweak power.conf?[23:30:24] <[lewellyn]> MACscr_la: it's an overall crappy nic, but if you have spare cpu cycles, it is pretty good bang for the buck.[23:30:54] <MACscr_la> [lewellyn]: i was thinking more intel pro desktop cards. Seems like the more reliable option[23:31:08] <[lewellyn]> i've not had reliability issues with rtl[23:31:19] <[lewellyn]> just overall performance under high cpu load[23:31:47] <[lewellyn]> they're an "it works, it's cheap" solution, and they do it well.[23:31:48] <MACscr_la> well, i might have plenty of extra cpu depending on if i go amd versus intel[23:32:38] <MACscr_la> i think i can do a quad core amd for the same price of the intel. But, i will have to use ddr3 memory since amd only has one motherboard that has 8 sata connections[23:32:50] <MACscr_la> kinda lame when intell has 43 different ones[23:32:54] <MACscr_la> er, intel[23:33:10] <MACscr_la> rofl, i spend way to much time researching this stuff[23:33:50] <nachox> the 8139 realtek cards? the best i can say about them is that they are supported in every os in existence, they are not fast though[23:33:57] <[lewellyn]> you're wasting more money in time than you would just buying what suits the task ;)[23:34:19] <[lewellyn]> nachox: 8169, not 8139. the 8139 are total crap, but even have dos packet drivers.[23:34:29] <MACscr_la> [lewellyn]: probably right, but at this point, i have more time than money. Plus im sitting at my inlaws right now on my lappy[23:34:30] <MACscr_la> =P[23:34:39] <[lewellyn]> 8169 is a definite step forward, though they're still not "great"[23:35:13] *** mibty has joined #opensolaris[23:36:10] *** zarguni has joined #opensolaris[23:36:40] <mibty> Could anyone let me know how to use the opensolaris learning cloud service? I did log in and "join", yet after something saying "might takes 1 or 2 minutes" nothing happens, and theres no such link or button labeled "Start Lab" to click on.[23:37:28] <[lewellyn]> learning cloud service?[23:37:30] *** AxeZ has quit IRC[23:37:51] <mibty> yet, or I wonder if it is that the opensolaris learning cloud service is supposed to give out ssh login but not web windows?[23:37:55] <mibty> ** ye[[23:37:58] <mibty> **yep[23:38:21] <mibty> I am sorry for the crappy keyboard . . .[23:38:31] <[lewellyn]> i'm unfamiliar with this thing...[23:38:53] <nachox> never heard of it[23:39:36] <mibty> never? its at http://opensolaris.org/os/TryOpenSolaris/ anyway, maybe its a cutting-edge new feature . . .[23:39:50] *** devians has quit IRC[23:39:58] <mibty> i might be the first one to find this out though :)[23:40:31] <[lewellyn]> heh. oops... wonder if this may be part of it? :)[23:40:33] <[lewellyn]> Note: PLEASE DO NOT SHUTDOWN THE SOLARIS IMAGE USING SOLARIS COMMANDS - THIS TAKES THE IMAGE OFFLINE UNTIL WE MANUALLY RESTART IT. PLEASE QUIT FROM THE PORTAL. THANK YOU![23:40:44] *** dmoerner has quit IRC[23:40:53] <nachox> hahaha[23:41:18] <mibty> indeed, yet i did not start anything except for clicking on join and following instructions, and there is no terminal window for me to type in shutdown -y 0[23:41:22] <[lewellyn]> but yeah. that doesn't seem terribly useful. a one-time one-hour use of the os?[23:41:52] <[lewellyn]> mibty: if you can't log in, i wouldn't be surprised that someone shut it down :)[23:42:06] <mibty> but the feature is great, if it works, u guys never run out of brilliant ideas[23:42:24] <[lewellyn]> meh. i'm just another solaris user ;)[23:42:37] * nachox is a happy solaris user too[23:43:18] *** syamajala has joined #opensolaris[23:43:19] <mibty> so I conjecture I should try this on another machine . . . regretfully I am not . . .[23:43:25] <nachox> [lewellyn], btw, i'm really happy with opera[23:43:38] <[lewellyn]> nachox: i'm indifferent, as usual, with opera[23:43:42] <nachox> unlike firefox, it rarely crashes[23:43:44] <[lewellyn]> i wish i could get SFEwebkit to build.[23:44:03] *** capaz has joined #opensolaris[23:44:04] <mibty> hmm i will restart and c if safaris works . . .[23:44:09] *** mibty has quit IRC[23:46:23] <[lewellyn]> why do i get the feeling that the "cloud" is a single vbox image? ;)[23:46:54] <nachox> but many different zones :P[23:47:13] <[lewellyn]> suspect not, with that message ;)[23:51:18] *** mibty has joined #opensolaris[23:52:07] *** cypromis has quit IRC[23:52:53] <mibty> eventually it works it turns out that that start lab option is hidden under the section my subscription! it is surprising that the whole desktop stuff is done in java, but not ssh . . .[23:52:57] *** syamajala has quit IRC[23:54:14] <mibty> it would be even better if they offer the option to run ssh inside the virtual image though . . .[23:55:55] <mibty> but anyway its slower that vnc, requiring ultra patience[23:56:14] <[lewellyn]> heh. of course it's in java. it's sun :P