March 12, 2019 
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Wrong leverrrrrrr!)[06:00:04] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has joined ##OpenGL[06:05:24] *** realzies <realzies!~realz@unaffiliated/realazthat> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[06:05:47] *** realz <realz!~realz@unaffiliated/realazthat> has joined ##OpenGL[06:35:35] *** charlie5 <charlie5!~rod@pa49-180-133-101.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au> has joined ##OpenGL[06:37:26] *** nprs <nprs!uid54228@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pkncnwbhozrcploz> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[06:37:51] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[06:59:00] *** R2robot <R2robot!~R2robot@unaffiliated/r2ro> has joined ##OpenGL[07:02:29] *** Nokurn_ <Nokurn_!~Nokurn@71-95-52-160.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com> has joined ##OpenGL[07:04:28] *** cantstanya <cantstanya!~chatting@gateway/tor-sasl/cantstanya> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[07:04:49] *** hunterco1l <hunterco1l!~huntercoo@199.241.143.139> has joined ##OpenGL[07:05:34] *** telex <telex!teletype@freeshell.de> has quit IRC (Disconnected by services)[07:05:46] *** telex <telex!teletype@freeshell.de> has joined ##OpenGL[07:06:41] *** segnior_ <segnior_!segnior@gateway/shell/xshellz/x-ixocuzfezsxkmhup> has joined ##OpenGL[07:06:43] *** cantstanya <cantstanya!~chatting@gateway/tor-sasl/cantstanya> has joined ##OpenGL[07:07:21] *** segnior <segnior!segnior@gateway/shell/xshellz/x-osftrnniixpvauxk> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[07:07:21] *** Samyel <Samyel!~Samyel@ns364744.ip-91-121-75.eu> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)[07:07:21] *** Nokurn <Nokurn!~Nokurn@71-95-52-160.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2 - https://znc.in)[07:07:21] *** huntercool <huntercool!~huntercoo@199.241.143.139> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[07:07:21] *** ClaudiusMaximus <ClaudiusMaximus!~claude@unaffiliated/claudiusmaximus> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[07:16:12] *** slidercrank <slidercrank!~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank> has joined ##OpenGL[07:31:55] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined ##OpenGL[07:32:07] *** slvn_ <slvn_!~slvn_@c2s31-1-78-245-90-111.fbx.proxad.net> has joined ##OpenGL[07:54:16] *** karab44 <karab44!~karab44@unaffiliated/karab44> has joined ##OpenGL[08:06:33] *** zeduckmaster <zeduckmaster!~zeduckmas@85.106.1.181> has joined ##OpenGL[08:06:52] *** iderik <iderik!~weechat@h-162-65.A147.priv.bahnhof.se> has joined ##OpenGL[08:11:28] *** slidercrank <slidercrank!~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[08:15:10] *** Serus <Serus!~Serus@unaffiliated/serus> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[08:19:21] *** stefkos <stefkos!~Pawel@79.184.3.26.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl> has joined ##OpenGL[08:19:55] *** Serus <Serus!~Serus@unaffiliated/serus> has joined ##OpenGL[08:24:15] *** slvn_ <slvn_!~slvn_@c2s31-1-78-245-90-111.fbx.proxad.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[08:25:01] *** slvn_ <slvn_!~slvn_@c2s31-1-78-245-90-111.fbx.proxad.net> has joined ##OpenGL[08:39:00] *** groton <groton!~groton@unaffiliated/groton> has quit IRC (Quit: groton)[09:11:54] *** Matthijs <Matthijs!~quassel@unaffiliated/matthijs> has joined ##OpenGL[09:24:06] *** mrig <mrig!~mrig@unaffiliated/mrig> has joined ##OpenGL[09:24:12] <mrig> Hello[09:26:44] <mrig> I am starting out with openGL, I am not looking to do high end gaming just to really get the basics, have coded a little openGL 2 and 3. I was hoping to get some advice on system setup. Currently using debian, would you recommend using the backports packages if the code that we are working on works with the default packages?[09:27:59] <mrig> And where would you recommend starting if the goal is to code for POSIX specifications? For UNIX type machines.[09:29:50] <DarkUranium> OpenGL has nothing to do with POSIX, for one.[09:29:59] <mrig> Oh sure[09:30:57] <mrig> I am learning about POSIX and linux type OS at the moment. Appreciate learning to use x11 as well.[09:31:19] <mrig> openGL is an interface, right?[09:31:41] <mrig> I see that Context/Window Toolkits are recommended by khronos.[09:31:44] <DarkUranium> Well, every API is an interface, and OpenGL is an API.[09:31:50] <DarkUranium> Yeah, ignore that.[09:32:04] <DarkUranium> Unless they changed it, their recommendations are woefully outdated.[09:32:10] <DarkUranium> I'd personally recommend SDL2.[09:32:22] <karalaine> if you want to learn x11, you can start by trying to get window with opengl withtout any window toolkit. thats unnecessary work, but then will understand whats underhood[09:32:27] <DarkUranium> Some people use GLFW, I don't like it for personal reasons (I have an issue with the devs)[09:32:41] <DarkUranium> There's also SFML, which is C++.[09:33:23] <mrig> I am coding in C, and am keen to stay as close to the OS as I can, I learn about it this way.[09:34:14] <mrig> If I do not want portability to windows, does that change the spec? What is glu?[09:34:23] <DarkUranium> I still wouldn't recommend direct X11 because of Wayland and non-Xorg platforms (e.g. rPi with direct hardware comms)[09:34:30] <DarkUranium> GLU is outdated. It's an OpenGL 1&2 thing.[09:34:52] <DarkUranium> I'd still us SDL2 or similar, even if you don't care about Windows. Because again: Wayland, direct hardware, etc.[09:36:27] <mrig> Is there much difference between say Allegro Cairo and SDL2?[09:38:25] <DarkUranium> Cairo has nothing to do with the other two.[09:38:43] <mrig> That is only 2D?[09:38:49] <DarkUranium> Allegro and SDL2 are pretty similar; I heard good things about both. Allegro is slightly higher-level, but also less well-known.[09:38:52] <mrig> no openGL[09:39:01] <DarkUranium> Cairo has nothing to do with games or anything like that.[09:39:07] <DarkUranium> Except that it does graphics, but that's about it.[09:39:12] <DarkUranium> It's really a completely unrelated thing.[09:39:32] <mrig> I am not looking to code games, more interested in UI and data displaying.[09:39:41] <DarkUranium> 3D data displaying?[09:39:45] <mrig> yes[09:39:53] <DarkUranium> I see. Well, for UI, I like Qt, myself.[09:40:33] <mrig> For now, I would like to use only C, just so that I can really nail my coding practice with it.[09:40:46] <mrig> Also I love the language.[09:41:27] <mrig> learning go too, it will be nice to be able to code for openGL in C and then interface with that code using Go[09:42:43] <mrig> Yes Qt does look like a pretty awesome API[09:43:07] <DarkUranium> Go <-> C interfacing is very slow, FYI.[09:43:22] <DarkUranium> Also, Go's threading model creates problems for OpenGL.[09:43:44] <DarkUranium> Anyhow, for C, you'll have to go much lower-level.[09:43:58] <DarkUranium> Unless you want to do GTK.[09:44:16] <mrig> I tend to find lower level easiest to grok strangely.[09:45:02] <DarkUranium> It's a *lot* more work, though.[09:45:15] <DarkUranium> Even for low-level, unless you want to implement everything 3-5 times, I'd still go SDL2 or such.[09:45:17] <mrig> I have a small project that I want to build and it involves glyphs and font rendering, would like to do it low level and really have control over what is happening.[09:45:30] <karalaine> hmm yeah true that wayland is more relevant to learn nowadays[09:46:16] <mrig> DarkUranium why 3-5 times, portability?[09:46:52] <DarkUranium> mrig, X11, Wayland, EGL.[09:47:00] <DarkUranium> Plus one or two others that I'm *sure* I'm missing.[09:47:02] <DarkUranium> But those are the main 3.[09:47:38] <mrig> Right so you need to target those 3 to be basically portable in the `linux` world?[09:47:51] <DarkUranium> Off the top of my head, yes. Possibly more.[09:47:57] <DarkUranium> Linux isn't a very unified thing.[09:48:15] <DarkUranium> SDL2, GLFW (dunno about Wayland or EGL there) and such do it for you.[09:48:17] <mrig> not looking to do that even at them moment. keen to code for supercomputers; really target hardware.[09:48:42] <mrig> or at least squeeze everything out of the machine that is on my desk.[09:49:26] <mrig> Thank you for the pointers, I will look into those and understand what I need to code this program for my maching.[09:49:27] <DarkUranium> Supercomputers are a completely different beast to normal desktops, though.[09:49:30] <mrig> machine.[09:49:34] <DarkUranium> For that, you need to get into heterogenous computing.[09:49:48] <DarkUranium> Also, you wouldn't be visualising stuff on them.[09:49:54] <DarkUranium> So no need for anything UI-related.[09:50:18] <mrig> well say for climate modeling or astronomy?[09:50:40] <DarkUranium> You compute things, send the result over a network to a normal computer, and *that* visualizes it.[09:50:47] <mrig> right yes[09:50:48] <DarkUranium> I highly doubt supercomputers have Xorg or Wayland or such.[09:50:55] <DarkUranium> Would be a waste of processing power to worry about that.[09:50:55] <mrig> makes sense[09:51:08] <mrig> that is what sysv is for right?[09:51:20] <DarkUranium> SysV IPC, or what?[09:51:32] *** BPL <BPL!~BPL@102.56.27.77.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com> has joined ##OpenGL[09:51:53] <DarkUranium> I dunno what you mean, SysV was just a Unix.[09:53:23] <mrig> it would be ideal for using multi-thread directly from the core in a system that is working in a distributed manor, and sending graphical output else where.[09:54:30] <mrig> Like I say I am just trying to visualise what is actually going on, and as a learning project I have some thing to code that I would line to make work locally at as low a level that I can.[09:54:57] <mrig> Text rendering on 3d surfaces with sound, is the goal.[09:56:06] <mrig> would like to go on from there to look at data visualisation, happy to keep to GPU for that, as efficient as I possibly can; I learn by doing is the thing.[09:56:32] <mrig> sounds like you have given me the pointers that I need to get started.[09:56:51] <mrig> Thank you very much for your help.[09:57:09] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!c351a8d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.81.168.216> has joined ##OpenGL[09:57:28] *** powerbit <powerbit!~powerbit@5-15-49-54.residential.rdsnet.ro> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[09:58:48] <DarkUranium> mrig, be careful about premature optimization.[09:58:55] <DarkUranium> Sounds to me like you're falling into that trap.[09:59:44] <mrig> DarkUranium I am learning to code in C that is all.[10:00:09] <DarkUranium> Sounds like there's more to it than that.[10:00:38] <mrig> Just love data structures :)[10:01:03] <mrig> not really bothered about the speed, I want to see them.[10:01:15] <mrig> so seems to me to be a nice way to do it.][10:03:36] *** karab44 <karab44!~karab44@unaffiliated/karab44> has quit IRC ()[10:06:51] <mrig> Right EGL looks pretty interesting, have a fairly decent understanding of the difference between wayland and xserver, so EGL communicates with mesa?[10:07:50] <mrig> but this is for wayland ...[10:09:44] <mrig> looks like it is GLX that I need to learn about?[10:12:29] <mrig> :) I think I am starting to understand why xserver has such security issues.[10:13:23] <DarkUranium> mrig, EGL, X11, and Wayland initialization are 3 different beasts.[10:13:36] <DarkUranium> Hence my recommendation to just use a wrapper. You won't learn anything about C by using those 3 directly.[10:14:06] <DarkUranium> You'll learn things about EGL, X11, and Wayland. Which isn't very useful knowledge unless you're going to be developing a low-level wrapper library (like SDL2, GLFW, or SGML themselves)[10:17:12] *** learningc <learningc!~learningc@mti-37-145.tm.net.my> has joined ##OpenGL[10:17:37] <mrig> Sure I get that, it is just that I need to see what is happening, just an over view, to remember and to read the code.[10:17:49] <mrig> This is why I am looking.[10:20:54] <mrig> And the low level requirements are really due to the math behind the Sanskrit language, just a hunch that I will need it so keeping the options open.[10:25:52] <DarkUranium> Honestly, neither of those will tell you what's happening.[10:26:27] <DarkUranium> They're all high-level APIs, compared to what they're actually doing.[10:26:41] <DarkUranium> They're all also the lowest levels that have a public interface (the private interfaces probably aren't even exported as symbols)[10:26:53] <DarkUranium> (and in the case of EGL, might be driver-specific; in other cases, "just" version-specific)[10:27:09] <DarkUranium> What do you mean by "math behind the Sanskrit language"?[10:27:45] <DarkUranium> All the libraries I've mentioned do is a portability wrapper around all of this crap.[10:27:58] <mrig> It is difficult to explain to someone who has not studied the language it is so different from European languages now.[10:28:05] <DarkUranium> BTW, EGL is more difficult than the rest.[10:28:15] <DarkUranium> Wayland & X11 give you input, too (not 100% sure on Wayland)[10:28:20] <DarkUranium> EGL just gives you a graphical context.[10:28:35] <mrig> Just reading about it, seems that EGL streams to openGL ES?[10:28:40] <DarkUranium> Yes, but what does a specific language have to do with the technical decision on the choice of context-creation APIs?[10:29:00] <DarkUranium> Typically, yes. But you can technically use it with desktop.[10:29:12] <DarkUranium> You need to worry about GLES if you want to be *truly* portable with Linux anyhow.[10:29:25] <mrig> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backus%E2%80%93Naur_form[10:29:41] <DarkUranium> I know what BNF is. I still fail to see your point.[10:29:46] <mrig> The motivation behind fortran belive it or not.[10:30:21] <DarkUranium> What does a natural language possibly have with the technical choice of choosing an API that creates a context to drive a masivelly parallel computer?[10:30:28] <mrig> Like I said you need to tdi a fair amount of study into the language to understand why it has to be low level[10:31:22] <DarkUranium> If you need low-level graphics API access in order to be able to handle a natural language, you're doing something very, very, *VERY* wrong.[10:31:24] <mrig> DarkUranium oh I was generalising, I just want to understand the computer that is in front of me and to use it for some experiments that I have in mind.[10:31:39] <DarkUranium> Neither of those 3 APIs will help you with that.[10:31:45] <DarkUranium> You'd need to delve lower, and there is no API for that.[10:31:50] <DarkUranium> Not the context creation part, anyhow.[10:32:08] <mrig> Yes i know, might end up writing a language for some of this.[10:32:56] <mrig> does not matte, just want to understand the graphics stack and learn to read the glyph, as I mentioned I learn best by doing,[10:33:16] <mrig> do not care about the rewards, more interested in the science :)[10:33:21] *** serg-z <serg-z!~serg-z@213.109.222.163> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[10:33:30] <mrig> Very keen on CS[10:33:53] <DarkUranium> There's very little to no CS in the APIs I've mentioned.[10:34:17] <DarkUranium> The APIs you want aren't even on the same level.[10:34:19] *** serg-z <serg-z!~serg-z@188.247.217.53> has joined ##OpenGL[10:34:23] <DarkUranium> What you're looking for would be kernel code.[10:34:25] <mrig> yes sure thing; Just tools.[10:34:32] <DarkUranium> And X11 is a loooong way away from kernel code.[10:34:46] <DarkUranium> You'd need to look into drivers.[10:35:16] <mrig> yes I gather, for now this is an exercise in learning to read the glyphs, and in coding in C for my computer,[10:35:32] <mrig> I want to build a tool to help me learn the glyphs.[10:35:58] <mrig> for the time being.[10:36:02] <DarkUranium> Then I wouldn't recommend starting with kernel code.[10:36:05] <DarkUranium> That would be absurd.[10:36:14] <DarkUranium> Hell, I'd start at a higher level than even SDL2 that I recommended.[10:36:28] <mrig> and with a mind to understanding the stack[10:37:05] <mrig> DarkUranium have you any notion of what it is to be a visual learner?[10:38:21] <DarkUranium> That's a myth.[10:38:25] <DarkUranium> I know that for a fact.[10:38:41] <mrig> The path that is `prescribed` for learning, is a waste of the teachers time and mine, So I just have to hack it and make do. That is what this program for learning to read the visual glyphs id for :P[10:38:58] <DarkUranium> There are learning *preferences* (mere familiarity effect, I'm sure), but it turns out there's no actual difference to learning *efficiency* if it goes against the preferences.[10:39:05] <mrig> that is why the Occident can not grasp the importance of Sanskrit.[10:39:29] <mrig> efficiency has nothing to do with it[10:40:04] <DarkUranium> It has everything to do with it.[10:40:05] <mrig> occidental obsession with point scoring is detrimental to their understanding of archery :D[10:40:31] <DarkUranium> If the point of making a learning tool is not to improve learning, then it's pointless.[10:40:43] <mrig> and consequently also the perception of time.[10:41:19] <mrig> Thank you for your help.[10:48:03] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[10:48:20] <mrig> DarkUranium as a side note, curiously enough the Sanskrit language has the different learning types encoded within it.[10:48:24] *** learningc <learningc!~learningc@mti-37-145.tm.net.my> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[10:48:31] <mrig> It is really rather beautiful.[10:49:12] *** learningc <learningc!~learningc@mti-37-145.tm.net.my> has joined ##OpenGL[11:07:56] *** R2robot <R2robot!~R2robot@unaffiliated/r2ro> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[11:08:09] *** R2robot <R2robot!~R2robot@unaffiliated/r2ro> has joined ##OpenGL[11:10:39] *** ClaudiusMaximus <ClaudiusMaximus!~claude@unaffiliated/claudiusmaximus> has joined ##OpenGL[11:15:48] *** Cyp_ <Cyp_!~Cyp_@87-52-78-149-cable.dk.customer.tdc.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)[11:36:44] <mrig> DarkUranium there are two distinct differences in the way that humans individually work together in a community, memory and understanding, some have greater memory others greater understanding,[11:38:07] <mrig> proof of efficiently does not take into account this very real phenomenon in any way shape or form. Discipline with less focus on competition would help this greatly.[11:40:20] <mrig> for that there absolutely must be understanding in the teacher, and a notion of mutual humility and respect.[11:41:01] *** Danol <Danol!~Danol@ip-94-112-108-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has joined ##OpenGL[11:41:54] <mrig> It is all in the name of the devanagri, or nagri script.[11:42:02] *** Cyp_ <Cyp_!~Cyp_@87-52-78-149-cable.dk.customer.tdc.net> has joined ##OpenGL[11:44:21] <Danol> Yo can I somehow do something like this: layout(r16ui) readonly uimage3D lightPropertiesMaps[3][3]; ?[11:44:29] <Danol> How would I bind to that?[11:48:23] *** learningc <learningc!~learningc@mti-37-145.tm.net.my> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[11:49:17] *** learningc <learningc!~learningc@mti-37-145.tm.net.my> has joined ##OpenGL[12:01:43] <Danol> OpenGL does not allow greater than 8 image uniforms :/[12:02:55] *** slime73 <slime73!~slime73@blk-215-81-93.eastlink.ca> has joined ##OpenGL[12:23:01] *** slime73 <slime73!~slime73@blk-215-81-93.eastlink.ca> has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)[12:29:22] *** slvn_ <slvn_!~slvn_@c2s31-1-78-245-90-111.fbx.proxad.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[12:42:28] *** stefkos <stefkos!~Pawel@79.184.3.26.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[12:46:47] *** iderik <iderik!~weechat@h-162-65.A147.priv.bahnhof.se> has quit IRC (Quit: iderik)[12:48:23] *** learningc <learningc!~learningc@mti-37-145.tm.net.my> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[12:48:38] *** learningc <learningc!~learningc@mti-37-145.tm.net.my> has joined ##OpenGL[13:32:05] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has joined ##OpenGL[13:48:26] *** learningc <learningc!~learningc@mti-37-145.tm.net.my> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[13:49:13] *** learningc <learningc!~learningc@mti-37-145.tm.net.my> has joined ##OpenGL[13:50:16] *** Jonas__ <Jonas__!~Jonas__@unaffiliated/jonas/x-7723671> has joined ##OpenGL[13:54:48] *** karab44 <karab44!~karab44@unaffiliated/karab44> has joined ##OpenGL[14:18:24] *** charlie5 <charlie5!~rod@pa49-180-133-101.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[14:29:37] *** thavlik <thavlik!ae47944a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.71.148.74> has joined ##OpenGL[14:32:18] <thavlik> Hey folks! I am trying to run this webgl shader and it is throwing an error about no overload for `texture`. I thought it would automatically pick a higher version of webgl that uses texture instead of texture2d? Here is the shader and the error: https://pastebin.com/1jBiTUKX[14:33:34] *** learningc <learningc!~learningc@mti-37-145.tm.net.my> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[14:36:49] <karalaine> thavlik: nope, you need to add #version 300 es or higher to make it compiled as 3.x glsl[14:43:23] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host109-150-28-226.range109-150.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##OpenGL[14:48:55] *** slvn_ <slvn_!~slvn_@c2s31-1-78-245-90-111.fbx.proxad.net> has joined ##OpenGL[14:49:30] *** learningc <learningc!~learningc@2001:d08:d6:93b:3c85:ee4d:6fbd:ae84> has joined ##OpenGL[14:56:50] <thavlik> karalaine: thank you! I get unsupported version with `#version 300 es`, though[14:56:56] <thavlik> on the latest chrome[14:57:05] *** jfpoole <jfpoole!~textual@72.143.113.107> has joined ##OpenGL[14:57:52] <karalaine> thavlik: whats your hardware and OS?[14:58:36] <thavlik> Mac Mini from 2012 (?) Mojave (10.14.3)[14:58:48] <thavlik> I have no issues running the exact same shader on shadertoy[14:59:13] <thavlik> https://www.shadertoy.com/view/XdfGDH[14:59:35] *** smitop <smitop!uid328768@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gnmugbxooajgfxrb> has joined ##OpenGL[15:02:23] *** dos11 <dos11!~dos1@neo900/coreteam/dos> has joined ##OpenGL[15:03:35] *** petris_ <petris_!~quassel@li-docker.host.petris.net> has joined ##OpenGL[15:03:55] <karalaine> well, all I can say that its non-standard so if shadertoy accepts it, its doing some tricks or converting it[15:04:32] <thavlik> karalaine: I needed canvas.getContext('webgl2')[15:04:38] <thavlik> as opposed to just `webgl`[15:04:53] <thavlik> I appreciate the help :) #version 300 es was indeed the correct directive[15:05:04] *** marcheu_ <marcheu_!~marcheu@annarchy.freedesktop.org> has joined ##OpenGL[15:05:30] <karalaine> right, forgot that webgl is refusing to use newer version of glsl with older context[15:05:37] <karalaine> in desktop drivers dont care that much[15:06:12] *** roxlu <roxlu!~roxlu@2a01:7c8:aac0:286:8c3a:b01c:3830:245b> has joined ##OpenGL[15:08:42] <roxlu> hi, I'm working on an application that renders some transparent objects. I was reading up on how to render this and I the approach that first renders opaque objects, then transparent seems to be worth a try.[15:08:49] *** TweyII <TweyII!~twey@unaffiliated/twey> has joined ##OpenGL[15:09:07] <roxlu> To calculate the distance for the transparent objects, I found some post that describes calculating the distance like:[15:09:20] *** ra4king1 <ra4king1!~ra4king@unaffiliated/ra4king> has joined ##OpenGL[15:09:35] <roxlu> `dist = dot(cam.position - node.position, cam.z_axis)` ... I'm wondering how this works ...[15:09:39] *** Jonas__ <Jonas__!~Jonas__@unaffiliated/jonas/x-7723671> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[15:09:39] *** Twey <Twey!~twey@unaffiliated/twey> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[15:09:39] *** petris <petris!~quassel@li-docker.host.petris.net> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[15:09:40] *** bl4ckb0ne <bl4ckb0ne!znc@173.195.146.141> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[15:09:40] *** mfiano <mfiano!~mfiano@lispgames/developer/mfiano> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[15:09:40] *** marcheu <marcheu!~marcheu@annarchy.freedesktop.org> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[15:09:40] *** Jenetrix <Jenetrix!~Jen@li582-254.members.linode.com> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[15:09:40] *** ra4king <ra4king!~ra4king@unaffiliated/ra4king> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[15:09:40] *** vmt <vmt!~vmt@pop.ax> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[15:09:40] *** dos1 <dos1!~dos1@neo900/coreteam/dos> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[15:09:40] *** Yamakaja <Yamakaja!~yamakaja@vps.pub.yamakaja.me> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[15:09:40] *** mort <mort!~mort96@snow/mort96> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[15:09:40] *** O2Leak <O2Leak!tacodrake9@unaffiliated/tacod> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[15:09:41] *** TweyII is now known as Twey[15:10:02] *** ra4king1 is now known as ra4king[15:10:07] <roxlu> I know `dot(vector, vector)` gives me an angle, and `dot(point, point)` a squared distance ... but this seems to be a `dot(vector, point)` and I'm not sure what the meaning of that is[15:11:38] *** dos11 is now known as dos1[15:12:46] *** serg-z <serg-z!~serg-z@188.247.217.53> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[15:14:34] *** serg-z <serg-z!~serg-z@87.247.50.197> has joined ##OpenGL[15:15:52] *** mfiano <mfiano!~mfiano@lispgames/developer/mfiano> has joined ##OpenGL[15:17:20] *** Jonas__ <Jonas__!~Jonas__@unaffiliated/jonas/x-7723671> has joined ##OpenGL[15:18:27] <Danol> Is it necessary to unbind image units?[15:18:44] <Stragus> No[15:19:32] <Stragus> Unbinding stuff in general can be useful to detect code mistakes, but you don't want that overhead in real builds[15:20:51] <karalaine> roxlu: maybe its just an optimization so you dont need to take square of it if you are just comparing distances?[15:21:15] *** thavlik <thavlik!ae47944a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.71.148.74> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[15:21:23] <karalaine> assuming z_axis is unit vector[15:22:22] <roxlu> karalaine: yeah `dot(point, point)` would give the distance squared which is nice[15:23:03] <roxlu> but `dot(vector, vector)` would give the angle between them (when they are normalised). and I'm curious how they use that when sorting on distance[15:23:08] <Stragus> roxlu: You get an acos angle multiplied by the distance of point from the origin? That can come up[15:23:51] <roxlu> Stragus: ah, is that the case?[15:24:00] <roxlu> Stragus: so basically you're projecting onto the z-axis ?[15:24:42] <Stragus> Well, that would depend what your vector is, but yes[15:25:08] <roxlu> ok, thanks that clears up something :) going to read up a bit[15:27:29] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host109-150-28-226.range109-150.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[15:29:03] *** Stragus <Stragus!~alexis@modemcable198.134-161-184.mc.videotron.ca> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[15:34:17] *** bl4ckb0ne <bl4ckb0ne!znc@173.195.146.141> has joined ##OpenGL[15:35:42] *** bl4ckb0ne <bl4ckb0ne!znc@173.195.146.141> has left ##OpenGL ("WeeChat 2.4")[15:46:02] *** DarkUranium <DarkUranium!~DarkUrani@stdrand.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[15:46:40] *** DarkUranium <DarkUranium!~DarkUrani@stdrand.com> has joined ##OpenGL[15:51:45] *** bayoubengal <bayoubengal!~bayoubeng@rrcs-50-84-94-202.sw.biz.rr.com> has joined ##OpenGL[15:54:41] *** thavlik <thavlik!ae47944a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.71.148.74> has joined ##OpenGL[15:57:08] <thavlik> So I switched a simple webgl scene to webgl2 and now depth testing doesn't work and it runs *very* slow with many of the frag shaders that previously ran at 60fps[15:57:21] <thavlik> I'm down to 24fps on some simple bezier shaders[15:57:52] <thavlik> depth testing just doesn't work anymore[15:58:33] <thavlik> It flickers the content underneath the fullscreen quad I'm drawing then it disappears forever. Removing the quad reveals the geometry underneath. Going back to webgl1 fixes the issue. Changing the depthfunc et al does nothing[16:01:02] *** zeduckmaster <zeduckmaster!~zeduckmas@85.106.1.181> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[16:02:46] *** Nicmavr <Nicmavr!~Nicmavr@unaffiliated/nicmavr> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[16:02:52] <karalaine> thavlik: weird, do you get any errors to console? I wonder if the chrome on OS X does something weird[16:03:12] <karalaine> whats you reason to go with webgl2 anyway? marketshare isnt that great just yet[16:04:37] *** Nicmavr <Nicmavr!~Nicmavr@unaffiliated/nicmavr> has joined ##OpenGL[16:05:22] *** karab44 <karab44!~karab44@unaffiliated/karab44> has quit IRC ()[16:05:58] <thavlik> karalaine: none[16:06:10] <thavlik> Guess I should stick with webgl1[16:06:21] <karalaine> do you happen to have it live somewhere?[16:06:59] <thavlik> Unfortunately no[16:07:04] <thavlik> I'm unable to share it as well[16:07:21] <thavlik> Very tempted at this point to just move to native[16:14:18] *** BPL <BPL!~BPL@102.56.27.77.dynamic.reverse-mundo-r.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[16:16:52] <karalaine> to rule out thats its not your setup, but the actual code, does this for example render correctly? https://tsherif.github.io/webgl2examples/dof.html[16:20:02] <thavlik> runs smoothly[16:20:48] <karalaine> right, something funky probably with your code then :)[16:22:06] *** upgrdman <upgrdman!~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman> has joined ##OpenGL[16:26:19] <thavlik> I'm sure[16:26:51] <thavlik> Just have no idea what and it doesn't seem to be worth finding out :)[16:27:03] <thavlik> Thanks, Apple, for just straight up not supporting webgl2 in Safari[16:27:25] <thavlik> at the end of the day, it seems like the right decision to deprive Apple users of bleeding edge web content. It's only right :)[16:31:15] <roxlu> fwiw, I was asking abou the scalar projection earlier.[16:36:55] *** bl4ckb0ne <bl4ckb0ne!znc@173.195.146.141> has joined ##OpenGL[16:37:20] <bl4ckb0ne> hiya, how bad is RGB888 compared to XRGB8888?[16:39:12] *** learningc <learningc!~learningc@2001:d08:d6:93b:3c85:ee4d:6fbd:ae84> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[16:44:45] <thavlik> Are framebuffers / fullscreen quads generally very slow WebGL?[16:45:11] <thavlik> I put in a render target for my scene and I'm rendering a full screen quad of it. FPS went from 45-60 to about 5[16:45:26] <thavlik> all I am doing is sampling the texture in the fsq shader[16:46:02] <thavlik> Oh, nice. It randomly started working after I refreshed the page.[16:46:29] <thavlik> I literally changed nothing[16:47:23] <thavlik> this is quite a bit flakier than gl on desktop :[16:52:28] *** bayoubengal <bayoubengal!~bayoubeng@rrcs-50-84-94-202.sw.biz.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[16:59:12] *** bayoubengal <bayoubengal!~bayoubeng@rrcs-50-84-94-202.sw.biz.rr.com> has joined ##OpenGL[16:59:53] *** millerti <millerti!~millerti@cpe-66-24-91-119.stny.res.rr.com> has joined ##OpenGL[17:02:55] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[17:09:09] *** smitop <smitop!uid328768@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gnmugbxooajgfxrb> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[17:13:54] *** millerti <millerti!~millerti@cpe-66-24-91-119.stny.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)[17:17:31] *** tecneecs <tecneecs!~tecneecs@ool-44c1cbc1.dyn.optonline.net> has joined ##OpenGL[17:19:16] *** thavlik <thavlik!ae47944a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.71.148.74> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[17:28:27] *** cfoch <cfoch!uid153227@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-onnypelihulxrjpe> has joined ##OpenGL[17:28:55] *** bayoubengal <bayoubengal!~bayoubeng@rrcs-50-84-94-202.sw.biz.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[17:39:27] *** bayoubengal <bayoubengal!~bayoubeng@rrcs-50-84-94-202.sw.biz.rr.com> has joined ##OpenGL[17:50:18] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined ##OpenGL[18:01:41] *** Matthijs <Matthijs!~quassel@unaffiliated/matthijs> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[18:18:34] *** Yamakaja <Yamakaja!~yamakaja@vps.pub.yamakaja.me> has joined ##OpenGL[18:33:39] *** Stragus <Stragus!~alexis@modemcable198.134-161-184.mc.videotron.ca> has joined ##OpenGL[18:42:11] *** notadeveloper <notadeveloper!~textual@unaffiliated/notadeveloper> has joined ##OpenGL[18:42:39] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!c351a8d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.81.168.216> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[18:47:04] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has joined ##OpenGL[18:47:20] *** iderik <iderik!~weechat@h-162-65.A147.priv.bahnhof.se> has joined ##OpenGL[18:51:45] *** krystcich <krystcich!~krystcich@088156132098.dynamic-ww-04.vectranet.pl> has joined ##OpenGL[18:55:40] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host109-150-28-226.range109-150.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##OpenGL[19:09:57] *** gareppa <gareppa!~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa> has joined ##OpenGL[19:13:08] *** grim001 <grim001!~grim001@ip70-189-228-129.lv.lv.cox.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[19:15:46] *** gareppa <gareppa!~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[19:17:50] *** Matthijs <Matthijs!~quassel@unaffiliated/matthijs> has joined ##OpenGL[19:19:26] *** ratchet_freak <ratchet_freak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7ne7axe82l8kqn.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined ##OpenGL[19:21:28] *** notadeveloper <notadeveloper!~textual@unaffiliated/notadeveloper> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[19:22:08] *** notadeveloper <notadeveloper!~textual@unaffiliated/notadeveloper> has joined ##OpenGL[19:42:43] *** millerti <millerti!~millerti@cpe-66-24-91-119.stny.res.rr.com> has joined ##OpenGL[19:57:01] *** grim001 <grim001!~grim001@ip70-189-228-129.lv.lv.cox.net> has joined ##OpenGL[20:00:24] <grim001> hmm... when I disable GL_MULTISAMPLE, I still get multisampling. Just less of it. The docs say that a only a single sample is used to generate the final color of a fragment if multisample is disabled. How can this produce transparent edges?[20:01:11] <grim001> I suppose that single sample has a coverage of less than 1.0[20:04:42] *** slidercrank <slidercrank!~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank> has joined ##OpenGL[20:10:44] <Yaniel> if you have GL_POLYGON_SMOOTH enabled it will use blending[20:11:04] <Yaniel> assuming you have that enabled of course[20:11:57] <Stragus> Maybe you are just confused between multisampling and bi/trilinear interpolation?[20:12:47] *** cnu- <cnu-!~u@s8635.suka.se> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[20:13:37] <Yaniel> interpolation does not act on polygon edges[20:13:37] *** cnu- <cnu-!~u@s8635.suka.se> has joined ##OpenGL[20:14:26] <grim001> not using GL_POLYGON_SMOOTH. I'm getting what appear to be smoothed edges as long as I am rendering to a multisample framebuffer before blitting to the backbuffer, even if GL_MULTISAMPLE is disabled[20:14:44] <grim001> disabling GL_MULTISAMPLE reduces the amount of smoothing[20:15:03] <grim001> so there's probably some aspect of it I'm not understanding[20:17:21] <Yaniel> oh[20:18:45] <Yaniel> > If enabled, use multiple fragment samples in computing the final color of a pixel. See glSampleCoverage.[20:18:47] <Yaniel> says the docs[20:19:03] <Yaniel> so yes it won't disable antialiasing[20:19:45] <grim001> so as I thought, it simply winds up using a single sample with whatever its associated coverage is?[20:19:59] <Yaniel> that's how I read the docs[20:20:14] <Yaniel> would have to double-check in the spec to be absolutely sure[20:20:20] <grim001> cool, I just wanted to check my understanding[20:27:30] *** iderik <iderik!~weechat@h-162-65.A147.priv.bahnhof.se> has quit IRC (Quit: iderik)[20:30:00] <derhass> no. that's not how it is. disabling GL_MULTISAMPLE _will_ disable the multisampling, i.e. if the fragment center lies inside the primitve, the coverage will be set to all sampless, and if not, it will be set to no samples at all[20:30:53] <derhass> not sure what exactly is goin on in your case, maybe you screw it up when blitting to the final framebuffer[20:31:52] <grim001> in this case the blit is between two same-size framebuffers, no stretching[20:32:18] <derhass> maybe you also have some DPI scaling going on[20:32:52] <derhass> or you screwed something up in the code[20:34:14] <grim001> no DPI scaling, only code change is the number of samples used in the framebuffer and enable/disable GL_MULTISAMPLE[20:34:55] <derhass> well, show the code[20:36:51] <derhass> or, you might have forced or "enhanced" the antialiasing via the GPU driver[20:37:03] <grim001> that's worth checking...[20:42:14] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has joined ##OpenGL[20:45:46] *** bayoubengal <bayoubengal!~bayoubeng@rrcs-50-84-94-202.sw.biz.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[20:45:52] <grim001> made sure all driver settings related to antialiasing were set to application-controlled. leaving GL_MULTISAMPLE off, I see hard edges with 0 samples selected, and soft edges with 32 samples selected. changing nothing else in the code.[20:46:52] <derhass> "leaving GL_MULTISAMPLE off", well, it is enabled by default[20:47:04] <grim001> by that I mean explicitly setting it to off[20:47:15] <derhass> maybe I driver bug then[20:47:34] <derhass> but I'm not convinced that it's not a bug in your side either[20:49:19] <grim001> I found this: https://forums.khronos.org/showthread.php/68385[20:49:39] <grim001> "When I looked at this before, it appears glDisable( GL_MULTISAMPLE ) only (as the spec says) disables multisample rasterization. So you get rid of some of the AA effect but not necessarily all, so long as you keep the MSAA pixel format"[20:50:48] *** marcheu_ is now known as marcheu[20:51:10] <derhass> hmm, I'll be re-reading the spec then[20:51:58] *** bayoubengal <bayoubengal!~bayoubeng@rrcs-50-84-94-202.sw.biz.rr.com> has joined ##OpenGL[20:51:59] <derhass> "If MULTISAMPLE is disabled, multisample rasterization of all primitives is equivalent to single-sample (fragment-center) rasterization, except that the fragment coverage value is set to full coverage. The color and depth values and the sets of texture coordinates may all be set to the values that would have been assigned by single-sample rasterization, or they may be assigned as described below for multi[20:52:05] <derhass> sample rasterization."[20:52:16] <Stragus> You say you still see AA with disabled multisampling. Do you see a difference if you actually enable it?[20:52:37] <grim001> yes, there is a stronger AA effect when GL_MULTISAMPLE is enabled[20:52:52] <Stragus> Weird stuff[20:53:10] <derhass> so yes, it does allow some does allow some differencesm so looks like allowed by the spec[20:53:52] <Stragus> I guess your hardware doesn't like rendering without any MS to a MS framebuffer, so it does "something" between full MS and single sample[20:55:27] <grim001> interesting. thanks for the feedback all.[21:02:01] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[21:03:23] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[21:05:56] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has joined ##OpenGL[21:26:40] *** slime73 <slime73!~slime73@24.215.81.93> has joined ##OpenGL[21:49:32] *** slvn_ <slvn_!~slvn_@c2s31-1-78-245-90-111.fbx.proxad.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[21:52:55] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[21:57:46] <Danol> Hmm[21:58:06] <Danol> is uniform block binding somehow shared with some other binds? Like images or something?[22:02:13] <derhass> no[22:04:39] *** s0laster <s0laster!~needs@119.160.9.93.rev.sfr.net> has joined ##OpenGL[22:05:58] <Danol> Weird[22:06:08] <Danol> Somehow glBindBufferBase breaks my rendering[22:06:17] <Danol> even when i don't use anything[22:06:22] <Danol> from the uniform block[22:07:00] <Danol> even when I don't call the shader afterwards[22:08:40] <derhass> show the code[22:09:01] <derhass> glBindBufferBase does also bind the unindexed target, too[22:10:11] <Danol> derhass, what does that mean?[22:10:39] <chrisf> suspect not enough spec reading[22:10:59] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host109-150-28-226.range109-150.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[22:11:15] <chrisf> but let's see code.[22:11:53] <Danol> https://pastebin.com/iU9vMty5[22:12:03] <Danol> It basically does not make any sense to me[22:12:50] <Danol> I have quite a lot of boilerplate so there's not that much to be seen[22:13:31] <derhass> well[22:13:32] <Danol> the glDraw2d binds its own program and does not use uniform buffers at all[22:13:38] <derhass> this is not nearly enough to diagnose the problem[22:14:12] <derhass> my suspicion still is that gl2DDraw or some other stuff which is operating in your draw loop is expecting a bound GL_UNIFORM_BUFFER[22:15:01] <Danol> hmm ye that could be it maybe[22:15:33] <Danol> rather that I'm not binding properly the uniform buffer for the previous stages[22:15:36] <chrisf> how about running this through apitrace and seeing what the state is at that point[22:15:59] <Danol> AYYY got it[22:16:11] <Danol> in the setUniformBlock, I only set it once[22:16:15] <Danol> instead of after every binding[22:16:29] <Danol> I can do that for glUniformBLockBInding[22:16:33] <Danol> but not for glBindBufferBase[22:16:54] <chrisf> ideally dont ever call glUniformBlockBinding[22:17:22] <Danol> is there any reason for that?[22:17:54] <chrisf> is rare to need a dynamic mapping between blocks and binding points[22:18:00] <derhass> assign yhe binding in the GLSL source[22:21:06] *** notadeveloper <notadeveloper!~textual@unaffiliated/notadeveloper> has quit IRC (Quit: My Mac Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[22:25:28] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[22:25:46] *** notadeveloper <notadeveloper!~textual@unaffiliated/notadeveloper> has joined ##OpenGL[22:26:09] <Danol> does dynamic binding slow things down,[22:26:10] <Danol> ?[22:26:59] <chrisf> it's just one more thing to screw up[22:27:31] <Danol> well if that's the case, then for me it'd be one less thing to screw upt[22:28:14] <Danol> since I have a wrapper around it that handles it, I don't have to remember to have proper bindings and can just enter the uniform name[22:32:56] *** hugh-adolph <hugh-adolph!uid18705@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eeckrielpweoeklf> has joined ##OpenGL[22:44:21] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host109-150-28-226.range109-150.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##OpenGL[22:52:30] *** grim002 <grim002!~grim001@ip70-189-228-129.lv.lv.cox.net> has joined ##OpenGL[22:54:37] *** glYoda <glYoda!~MTLYoda@c-73-25-27-206.hsd1.or.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: glYoda)[22:57:16] *** grim001 <grim001!~grim001@ip70-189-228-129.lv.lv.cox.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[22:57:32] *** cfoch <cfoch!uid153227@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-onnypelihulxrjpe> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[23:01:13] *** mrig <mrig!~mrig@unaffiliated/mrig> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.4)[23:07:14] *** bayoubengal <bayoubengal!~bayoubeng@rrcs-50-84-94-202.sw.biz.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[23:08:53] *** Lunatrius <Lunatrius!~Lunatrius@77.38.91.49> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[23:10:06] *** Lunatrius <Lunatrius!~Lunatrius@77.38.91.49> has joined ##OpenGL[23:10:40] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host109-150-28-226.range109-150.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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