February 22, 2018 
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February 22, 2018 [00:04:08] *** toblorone <toblorone!~toblorone@162.246.216.28> has joined ##OpenGL[00:09:03] *** BearishMushroom <BearishMushroom!~BearishMu@82-209-154-59.cust.bredband2.com> has joined ##OpenGL[00:16:16] *** _gr3g_2 <_gr3g_2!~greg@pool-72-80-159-17.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined ##OpenGL[00:21:59] <korans> I'm getting "error: `out'qualifier in declaration of `colour' only valid for function parameters in GLSL 1.20" from the following shader http://bpaste.net/show/695cb546786f please ignore the 3 quotes at the end of the paste they're not part of the program[00:22:24] <korans> I think it maybe an issue with the GLSL version I'm using as the guide is for 1.50[00:23:00] <korans> however, this is the latest version I can use.[00:25:26] <Stragus> Archaic GLSL used gl_FragColor and not an out variable, since there was only one color output[00:26:03] <Stragus> I think there are no "out" for shaders in 1.20 anyway, just in and varying[00:26:38] <korans> Stragus: honestly I'm not sure what out is supposed to do this guide is very breif[00:26:46] <korans> *brief[00:27:59] <Stragus> Remove the out variable and use gl_FragColor[00:28:18] <Stragus> Your drivers don't go beyond GLSL 1.20? That is pretty old[00:28:35] <korans> The card is very old[00:29:24] <derhass> like what?[00:30:39] *** threenuc <threenuc!~threenuc@88.156.163.16> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[00:34:21] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[00:35:09] <korans> Stragus: looks like it doesn't have in either, it states they can be used as function parameters however[00:35:36] <Stragus> It doesn't have what?[00:35:53] <derhass> "in" qualifiers[00:35:56] <korans> the "in" qualifier[00:35:58] <derhass> which shouldn't be surprising[00:36:04] <derhass> as those were introduced in 1.30[00:36:36] <Stragus> I thought 1.20 had "in" for vertex attributes?[00:36:57] *** castleboar <castleboar!~bes@unaffiliated/castlelore> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[00:36:59] <derhass> Stragus: no[00:37:12] <derhass> it had "attribute"[00:37:23] <Stragus> Oh, right. That was a while ago[00:37:46] *** karab44 <karab44!~karab44@unaffiliated/karab44> has quit IRC ()[00:39:33] <korans> any good guides for the version I'm using ?[00:43:26] <Stragus> What's your hardware?[00:43:42] <Stragus> I mean, using 12 years old OpenGL shouldn't be necessary[00:43:45] <korans> OpenGL 2.1. ATI RV560[00:44:35] <Stragus> Released in 2005, okay[00:44:43] <korans> Mesa certainly thinks so[00:45:49] <Stragus> I would recommend looking around for an used or new low-end GPU[00:46:30] <zid> I recommend just mailing gl commands to people and hoping they render them for you and email them back[00:46:30] <korans> that's not a suitable alternative[00:47:15] <Stragus> I'm sure there are still guides for GL 2.1 around, Google should know[00:47:32] <Dariusz> what does mean Transform a Vector by a matrix and return the result in a destination vector.[00:47:32] <Dariusz> ?[00:47:33] <DarkUranium> with the RV560, he might be better off with software rendering at this point =|[00:47:39] <korans> so anyone will do. Wasn't sure if there were bad guides lying around[00:48:05] <DarkUranium> I'd argue any <GL3.1 (or thereabouts) guide is a bad guide by now. But it's not as if you have much choice.[00:48:21] <DarkUranium> well, you do, but software rendering is gonna be slow[00:48:44] <zid> What's the beast that RV560 is plugged into[00:48:50] <Stragus> korans: Yes, there are bad guides out there... but most of us wouldn't know what's out there for GL 2.1[00:49:16] <zid> Oh hey that gpu is good for a project I have[00:50:04] <zid> 2.1 was the era of "opengl is lagging behind dx, make everything useful an extension" afiak?[00:50:35] <Stragus> Dariusz: It means multiplying the vector by the matrix[00:51:21] *** ciaala <ciaala!~crypt@101.180.0.85.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)[00:52:26] <Dariusz> dear lord[00:52:38] <Dariusz> in how what why[00:52:47] <Dariusz> why does multiplying a vector by a matrix means transform[00:52:50] <Dariusz> T_T[00:53:14] <DarkUranium> Dariusz, ... because that's how this works?[00:53:18] <DarkUranium> they're transformation matrices.[00:53:22] <DarkUranium> lookup linear algebra[00:53:42] <Dariusz> what year/school do you learn linear algebra that should have given me this knowledge?[00:54:36] <zid> 3blue1brown has an amazing series on this on youtube[00:54:52] <zid> watching it is what made me finally give 3D graphics a go[00:54:55] <Stragus> Here (Quebec, Canada), it's in the two years of natural siences before university[00:54:56] <DarkUranium> given how stunningly different school systems between countries are, I don't think I can answer that.[00:55:18] <Stragus> Or at 17-18 years old if that helps[00:55:18] <Dariusz> I'm watching 3blue1brown videos too but uhh[00:55:24] <DarkUranium> Stragus, you only have 2 years of "natural sciences"? O_o[00:55:27] <DarkUranium> like, that's 1 subject?[00:55:38] <Dariusz> so thats a college then[00:55:52] <Dariusz> yea I did arts /photography in college. Didnt touch math :/ crap. Gotta go to college now lol[00:55:57] <Stragus> DarkUranium: It's mostly two years of math, physics and chemistry before specializing at university[00:56:07] <DarkUranium> huh[00:56:25] *** _gr3g_2 <_gr3g_2!~greg@pool-72-80-159-17.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:56:38] <DarkUranium> Stragus, here, it's 4 years of math, 3 years of physics & chemistry & biology & such (I think I'm forgetting 1 or 2)[00:56:51] <DarkUranium> +1 years of those latter ones, for one of 2 subjects you can pick[00:57:01] <DarkUranium> (I picked physics & chemistry, for example)[00:57:14] <DarkUranium> BTW, that's separate subjects. Physics != Chemistry != Biology != ...[00:57:37] <DarkUranium> that's for high school, to be clear[00:57:58] <Stragus> School systems vary widely around the world[00:58:16] <DarkUranium> elementary has all that, about 9 years of it (math is always separate, first few years have a combined "nature" for the rest, but it splits up after that)[00:58:18] *** acksys_ <acksys_!~fritz@mail12.shutterfly.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[00:58:59] <Stragus> University here begins later than in the U.S. for example, because of these two years of a more general formation before people specialize[00:59:06] <DarkUranium> right[00:59:14] <DarkUranium> here, it begins at 18ish, IIRC.[00:59:25] <DarkUranium> (I might be wrong by a year or so)[00:59:35] <Stragus> These two years include advanced calculus, integrals, matrices, and so on[00:59:51] <DarkUranium> for us, the 4 years are ... well, a lot, heh.[01:00:42] <DarkUranium> calculus, statistics (including, but not limited to, combinatorics & probability), boolean algebra, all sorts of functions (everything from linear to rational, exponential and such), conical sections, ...[01:00:55] <Stragus> Yup, all that[01:00:59] <DarkUranium> No linear algebra in high school though. They removed it relatively recently.[01:01:05] <DarkUranium> with the exception of vectors.[01:01:11] <Stragus> What? That's terrible[01:01:44] <Stragus> Linear algebra begins here at... 15 years old I think?[01:01:47] <DarkUranium> actually, with the exception of vectors and linear equations[01:02:02] <DarkUranium> but no transformations or such, and no matrices anymore[01:02:11] <Stragus> Darn[01:02:15] <DarkUranium> (except for gauss elimination and similar matrix-based approaches to linear equations)[01:02:33] <DarkUranium> univ covered, oh dear.[01:02:53] *** _gr3g_2 <_gr3g_2!~greg@pool-72-80-159-17.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined ##OpenGL[01:03:11] <DarkUranium> more of calculus (honestly *LESS* advanced than high school for some reason), linear proofs, grammatical stuff (100% mathematical aspects, no comp sci in sight --- at least in mathematics), advanced boolean algebra (duh), uhm[01:03:27] <DarkUranium> linear algebra (actually, we could pick between that and numerical mathematics; but I picked lin alg)[01:03:46] <DarkUranium> and like 5 other things that I forgot by now.[01:04:21] <DarkUranium> mind you, there's plenty of *ALGEBRA* in high school. Just not linear algebra as such.[01:04:41] <DarkUranium> algebra starts in elementary here, at like ... 13? Ish?[01:04:44] <DarkUranium> I think before that, even.[01:05:14] <Stragus> If you mean algebra by "isolate the x", then yes, around that[01:05:35] <DarkUranium> that includes logarithms and such (but logarithms are a bit later), not only linear.[01:05:40] <DarkUranium> Stragus, mind you, much of the vectors and such is basically covered in physics classes.[01:05:44] <DarkUranium> since they *are* mandatory.[01:06:07] <DarkUranium> physics goes, IIRC: Newtonian physics -> thermodynamics -> optics -> * -> particle physics[01:06:15] <DarkUranium> the '*' is a "I can't recall, but I do remember there's something there"[01:06:49] <DarkUranium> oh right, electricity before that (starts in elementary, really)[01:07:02] <DarkUranium> Stragus, I think the most ... interestingly out of place thing was back in elementary school.[01:07:53] <DarkUranium> Technical drawings classes. Like, top/side/front/isometric. Even covering how to write the lettering in a technical way (which must be written in a very specific order of lines and such, apparently), and so on.[01:08:29] <Stragus> That's... weird[01:08:36] <DarkUranium> Not as interesting as back in Yugoslavia though, which used to have defense classes. Weapons included.[01:09:38] <DarkUranium> And yeah, it is weird. I enjoyed them, though, even if I couldn't draw the damn arrows properly for the life of me![01:09:54] <DarkUranium> (there is a veeeeery specific way of drawing them, and I never could quite get it right)[01:10:22] <Stragus> I saw in South America, very recently, high school students who had mechanical typewritter classes[01:10:27] <DarkUranium> ha[01:10:53] <DarkUranium> we did have computer classes back then; mostly office-related stuff (not necessarily MS Office the software --- but rather office the general concept)[01:10:56] <DarkUranium> but with some HTML.[01:11:15] <DarkUranium> ... in practice, a lot of in-class Counter-Strike sessions.[01:11:41] <DarkUranium> (this would've been around '99 to '02 or thereabouts)[01:11:53] <derhass> we had ut99[01:12:28] <DarkUranium> UT99 was the shit![01:12:39] <DarkUranium> I played an unbelieveable amount of that.[01:13:00] <DarkUranium> Against bots though --- we only had dial-up and it was *EXPENSIVE*. So 'net use was limited to a few minutes every once in a while.[01:13:21] <Stragus> And we were into Duke Nuken 3D, a few years earlier I guess[01:13:36] <DarkUranium> I still think Epic Games should've released the sources to that, much like how id released the sources to Quake 3.[01:13:52] <DarkUranium> Stragus, I played a ton of Doom, too. Doom II, if my memory serves me right.[01:13:57] <DarkUranium> and *ESPECIALLY* Prince of Persia[01:14:04] <DarkUranium> apparently, I knew every nook & cranny of that game.[01:14:41] <DarkUranium> Speaking of '99ish, I still maintain that the best GPU I've ever owned was the Voodoo 3.[01:15:27] <Dariusz> lol[01:17:47] <DarkUranium> oh and, using the Radeon ... I think it was 9200 (one of the 9x00 series, at any rate)[01:17:49] <DarkUranium> that was fun in Halo.[01:18:27] <DarkUranium> you see, it would negate the invisibility shader in it ... basically, "invisible" enemies would be these completely-out-of-place green things[01:18:35] <DarkUranium> spotted even more easily than if they hadn't been using that.[01:18:41] <Stragus> I learned OpenGL on a geforce 2 MX. It could do bump mapping, stencil shadows, reflection cube maps! But... not all at the same time, for a good frame rate[01:18:46] <DarkUranium> haha[01:18:56] <DarkUranium> I think I first started with GL on a GeForce 4[01:19:45] <Stragus> So you had like FOUR multitexturing units to use with NV register combiners[01:20:00] <Dariusz> dear god o.o[01:20:25] <Dariusz> u guys got some serious experience o.o[01:20:27] <DarkUranium> haha[01:20:41] <Dariusz> I mean holy crap, geforce4? voodoo....[01:20:52] <DarkUranium> Stragus, I remember not being able to use FBOs reliably. So I needed 2 code paths, one FBO, and one copy->draw->copy[01:21:11] <DarkUranium> the main culprit was one particular (but *EXTREMELY* popular & common) Intel integrated GPU[01:21:22] <DarkUranium> mind you, it wasn't just GL that was broken --- even DirectDraw surfaces wouldn't work with it.[01:21:35] <DarkUranium> it reported success, but then failed to work properly[01:21:39] *** derhass <derhass!~derhass@dslb-094-222-155-209.094.222.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[01:21:49] <Stragus> Intel hasn't changed much[01:22:36] <DarkUranium> Compared to then? Yes it has.[01:22:40] <DarkUranium> It hasn't changed *ENOUGH* though.[01:23:06] <DarkUranium> actually, IIRC, I couldn't even use VBOs reliably enough.[01:23:15] <DarkUranium> I had to use those direct CPU-side pointers with gl*Pointer[01:23:31] <DarkUranium> dark times.[01:24:21] <Stragus> Old GPUs had plenty of restrictions regarding VBO data layout to be able to use the data[01:24:47] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host86-178-171-7.range86-178.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[01:24:48] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7mzgy0p2f49u7u.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[01:24:49] <DarkUranium> I mean even just the existence of VBOs.[01:25:14] *** Gama11_ <Gama11_!~quassel@p5DCDB9A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[01:25:15] <DarkUranium> Couldn't rely on them existing. IIRC, the reason was, again, Intel.[01:27:20] <Dariusz> Are any of you familiar with QMatrix4x4.perspective function ?[01:27:50] * DarkUranium doesn't use Qt. Or rather, he does, but never with GL.[01:27:56] <DarkUranium> lemme look it up[01:28:12] <Dariusz> its a perspective(fov,ratio,near,far clipping)[01:28:17] <Stragus> Never touched Qt[01:28:19] <Dariusz> is that a viewToProjection matrix?[01:28:23] <DarkUranium> looks like the Qt version of gluPerspective.[01:29:07] <DarkUranium> it's part of the projection matrix, typically, if that's what you mean[01:29:16] <DarkUranium> (I mean, the full name is perspective *projection*)[01:29:30] <DarkUranium> viewToClipSpace[01:30:09] <Dariusz> humh[01:30:42] <Dariusz> so its[01:31:01] <DarkUranium> I'd first try ortho(), see if that works (without any other matrices involved)[01:31:07] <DarkUranium> if it does, then perspective will.[01:31:15] <Dariusz> oh no I got it all working, I'm just trying to implement raycast[01:31:15] <DarkUranium> if it doesn't, first thing I'd try is transposing it when loading to GL[01:31:18] <DarkUranium> ah.[01:31:28] <Dariusz> https://youtu.be/DLKN0jExRIM?t=431#[01:31:38] <Dariusz> I'm just trying to figure out what matrix is what and how to undo it o.o[01:32:11] <DarkUranium> you have a .inverted() function.[01:32:14] <DarkUranium> that's how you undo it.[01:32:19] <Dariusz> yeah[01:32:23] <Dariusz> well[01:32:26] <Dariusz> kinda yeah[01:32:33] <Stragus> Tracing a ray based on screen coordinates? You need to do the inverse of all the steps[01:32:39] <Dariusz> yep[01:32:57] <Dariusz> so I grab x/y of mouse pos, get it in to openGL space of -1 to 1[01:33:14] <Dariusz> and then I need to multiply it by magic[01:33:14] <Dariusz> :D[01:33:34] <Dariusz> I'm re-reading on all these matrices again now to try to figure out what is what lol[01:33:46] <Stragus> By the inverse of your matrix, or the inverse of the multiplication of your modelview and projection matrices if you do that[01:34:10] <DarkUranium> if your shader is `modelViewProjectionMatrix * vector`[01:34:12] <DarkUranium> you just inverse that.[01:34:14] <Stragus> Then the perspective divide, .xyz / .w[01:34:20] <DarkUranium> (pref. CPU-side)[01:34:41] <Dariusz> as far as I can tell I have camMatrix.perspective() * matrix.lookAt(camPosition,camPosition+viewDirection,UP) * modelMatrix(model matrix is translate *rotate*scale)[01:35:09] <DarkUranium> you literally do an inverse of all that (assuming you're trying to do what I think you're trying to do)[01:35:24] <Dariusz> I want to cast a ray and hit an object in worldspace[01:35:44] <Stragus> Maybe that'll help: https://pastebin.ca/3976486[01:35:47] <Dariusz> so I can select it or get its id or something[01:38:55] <Dariusz> that mathUnprojectPoint is well black magic :- ) but thanks ! I will understand it one day hah.[01:39:18] <Stragus> Take the time to understand matrix math[01:39:47] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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(www.adiirc.com))[07:18:57] *** Fig1024 <Fig1024!~Fig@1.209.170.47> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[07:19:44] *** barteks2x <barteks2x!barteks2x@gateway/shell/panicbnc/x-vricrwbdldbwcsmn> has joined ##OpenGL[07:21:21] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7mzgy0p2f49u7u.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined ##OpenGL[07:25:15] *** ville <ville!~ville@178-55-61-138.bb.dnainternet.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[07:25:46] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7mzgy0p2f49u7u.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[07:27:01] *** xaxxon <xaxxon!~xaxxon@73.109.60.231> has quit IRC (Quit: xaxxon)[07:30:40] *** Borkr <Borkr!~Borkr@mail.seaonics.com> has joined ##OpenGL[07:33:48] *** xaxxon <xaxxon!~xaxxon@73.109.60.231> has joined ##OpenGL[07:34:38] *** castleboar <castleboar!~bes@unaffiliated/castlelore> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC 1.6.5 - http://znc.in)[07:36:22] *** xaxxon <xaxxon!~xaxxon@73.109.60.231> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[07:38:34] *** castlelore <castlelore!~bes@cpe-76-173-200-54.hawaii.res.rr.com> has joined ##OpenGL[07:39:53] *** castlelore <castlelore!~bes@cpe-76-173-200-54.hawaii.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Changing host)[07:39:53] *** castlelore <castlelore!~bes@unaffiliated/castlelore> has joined ##OpenGL[07:40:06] *** castlelore is now known as castleboar[07:56:55] *** tambry <tambry!~tambre@0ab1-316b-0229-5933-ab80-8a0a-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee> has joined ##OpenGL[07:58:00] *** tambre2 <tambre2!~tambre@206-195-196-88.dyn.estpak.ee> has joined ##OpenGL[07:58:27] <Stragus> arahael: I assume it's still only blit and blending[08:00:37] *** tambre <tambre!~tambre@c0f4-6047-a4f4-494a-ab80-8a0a-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[08:02:22] *** tambry <tambry!~tambre@0ab1-316b-0229-5933-ab80-8a0a-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[08:02:28] *** Fig1024 <Fig1024!~Fig@175.117.3.23> has joined ##OpenGL[08:04:52] *** gomjabbar <gomjabbar!gomjabbar@206.41.112.239> has quit IRC (Changing host)[08:04:52] *** gomjabbar <gomjabbar!gomjabbar@unaffiliated/anti-mttr/x-9384728> has joined ##OpenGL[08:06:32] *** metalice <metalice!~metalice@169-0-91-240.ip.afrihost.co.za> has joined ##OpenGL[08:19:02] *** ngm <ngm!~nishanth@183.82.187.154> has joined ##OpenGL[08:25:25] *** ravior <ravior!~crapitea@38.132.111.173> has joined ##OpenGL[08:27:29] *** reddv <reddv!~dredev@b07-406b.kn.vutbr.cz> has joined ##OpenGL[08:30:45] *** castleboar <castleboar!~bes@unaffiliated/castlelore> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC 1.6.5 - http://znc.in)[08:31:06] *** gomjabbar <gomjabbar!gomjabbar@unaffiliated/anti-mttr/x-9384728> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[08:32:46] <arahael> Stragus: More or less, plus rotations.[08:32:55] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[08:33:08] <arahael> Has rudimentary font support, and by that, I mean I'm not sure it does hinting, etcetera.[08:33:55] *** goiko_ <goiko_!~goiko@p5DEB78B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined ##OpenGL[08:34:47] *** gomjabbar <gomjabbar!gomjabbar@206.41.112.239> has joined ##OpenGL[08:34:57] *** goiko <goiko!~goiko@unaffiliated/goiko> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[08:35:28] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has joined ##OpenGL[08:35:50] <bookmark> https://www.google.com/search?q=opengl+texture+size+limit&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-ab[08:35:56] <bookmark> i just searched this[08:36:08] <bookmark> and it says a radeon should handle 2048 textures[08:36:15] *** gomjabbar <gomjabbar!gomjabbar@206.41.112.239> has quit IRC (Changing host)[08:36:15] *** gomjabbar <gomjabbar!gomjabbar@unaffiliated/anti-mttr/x-9384728> has joined ##OpenGL[08:36:21] <bookmark> but my program is crashing when i try to run it[08:36:30] <Yaniel> did you read the fine print[08:36:34] <bookmark> is that because its a mobility radeon i'm running it on?[08:37:05] <bookmark> https://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Radeon-HD-4250.29664.0.html[08:37:31] *** stefkos <stefkos!~Pawel@82.177.144.226> has joined ##OpenGL[08:37:36] <bookmark> it uses shared memory up to 512 mb[08:38:00] <bookmark> apparently[08:38:30] <Yaniel> yes, mobile GPUs tend to be cut down versions[08:38:47] <Yaniel> and in the end your OpenGL implementation has the final say in what it supports[08:38:59] <bookmark> how can i find out?[08:39:01] <Yaniel> that's why glGet* exists[08:39:10] *** john51 <john51!~john@15255.s.t4vps.eu> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[08:40:01] <bookmark> GL_MAX_RECTANGLE_TEXTURE_SIZE ?[08:40:04] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has joined ##OpenGL[08:40:06] <Stragus> No. GL_MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE[08:40:23] <bookmark> ah i gotcha[08:40:29] <bookmark> thanks guys[08:41:24] *** meandrain <meandrain!~meandrain@89.39.123.241> has joined ##OpenGL[08:41:33] <Stragus> When you say "crash", you mean a GL error?[08:41:38] <Yaniel> unless you are using the rectangle texture extension[08:41:47] <bookmark> windbg just hangs[08:42:02] <Yaniel> also do you mean 2048x2048 textures or 2048 separate textures[08:42:11] <bookmark> 2kx2k[08:42:35] <Stragus> Something would have to be prehistoric not to support 2048x2048[08:42:46] <Yaniel> > mobility radeon[08:42:46] <bookmark> yeah this is an old laptop[08:43:18] <bookmark> i got it running a few weeks ago before i did the texture atlas stuff[08:43:22] <bookmark> on there[08:43:39] <bookmark> but with the texture atlas i designed just to run on there it wont lol[08:43:40] <Stragus> If it claims to support 2048, you have a bug in the pixels upload[08:44:05] *** slvn_ <slvn_!~slvn_@c2s31-1-78-245-90-111.fbx.proxad.net> has joined ##OpenGL[08:44:21] <bookmark> aight[08:44:42] <Yaniel> anyway, check what your gl implementation says it supports[08:45:07] <bookmark> lol i think it was my debug routine[08:45:10] <bookmark> sorry guys[08:45:29] <bookmark> but thats good for me[08:46:07] <bookmark> i had a opengl get string thing in there[08:46:18] <Yaniel> that shouldn't crash[08:46:32] <bookmark> tell that to my computer[08:47:09] *** goiko__ <goiko__!~goiko@p5DEB78F4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined ##OpenGL[08:47:09] <Stragus> Eh. Thought that couldn't be it, my 20 years old Geforce 2 MX supported 2048x2048 textures[08:47:46] <Yaniel> wow, that must've been huge at the time[08:48:05] *** goiko_ <goiko_!~goiko@p5DEB78B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[08:50:33] <Stragus> You bet, you could have a maximum of _one_ of these in video memory[08:50:40] <Yaniel> hehe[08:54:37] <bookmark> sweet it finally loaded although in the debugger[08:54:57] <bookmark> 1 fps[08:55:16] <Yaniel> still counts as realtime :P[08:56:42] <bookmark> wish i had a nice windows profiler[08:57:16] *** DrBenway <DrBenway!~DrBenway@modemcable080.164-57-74.mc.videotron.ca> has joined ##OpenGL[08:59:21] <Yaniel> doesn't visual studio have that[08:59:30] <Yaniel> and both amd and nvidia have one for the gpu side[09:00:14] <bookmark> i still need to devolop pages into my texture atlas builder[09:00:30] <bookmark> because right now it builts 64 256x256 into one 2048[09:00:36] <bookmark> and if i go over i crash[09:00:40] <bookmark> ehehe[09:00:55] <Yaniel> also renderdoc is awesome, use it[09:00:56] <bookmark> needs at least one more page[09:01:10] <Yaniel> (if you're working with modern gl as you should)[09:01:18] *** geo5 <geo5!~geo5@2601:601:1800:53a4::54a> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[09:01:28] <bookmark> well i just got a version of my game that has modern gl[09:01:45] <bookmark> but i have to finish updating the 2d text gui stuff[09:01:48] *** DrBenway <DrBenway!~DrBenway@modemcable080.164-57-74.mc.videotron.ca> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[09:01:51] <bookmark> and its running abnormally slow[09:02:07] <bookmark> compared to the deprecated glRotatefs and what not[09:04:28] <Yaniel> are you creating / uploading new VBOs all the time[09:04:49] <bookmark> i use a vao[09:05:29] <bookmark> i build bunch of matrices each frame[09:05:33] <bookmark> maybe thats why[09:05:44] <bookmark> probably should have that done before hand[09:05:49] <bookmark> duh[09:06:14] <bookmark> like i do half at init and half during runtime on the bone matrices[09:06:21] <bookmark> i should just do it all at init[09:08:43] <Yaniel> matrices shouldn't be an issue[09:08:54] *** Quetzal2 <Quetzal2!~Quetzal2@unaffiliated/quetzal2> has joined ##OpenGL[09:14:35] *** groton <groton!~groton@unaffiliated/groton> has quit IRC (Quit: groton)[09:20:10] *** groton <groton!~groton@unaffiliated/groton> has joined ##OpenGL[09:20:14] *** Matthijs <Matthijs!~quassel@unaffiliated/matthijs> has joined ##OpenGL[09:25:03] <bookmark> i send in my vao every frame yes[09:25:12] <bookmark> for each object[09:25:19] <bookmark> that in turn updates vbos[09:25:22] <Yaniel> vao != vbo[09:25:33] <Yaniel> binding a vao is cheap[09:25:38] <bookmark> ok[09:25:42] <Yaniel> glBufferData is much more expensive[09:27:29] <bookmark> i only use glBufferData when the objects load[09:27:37] <Yaniel> still shouldn't be quite that bad unless you are sending tons of data every frame[09:28:00] *** castlelore <castlelore!~bes@cpe-76-173-200-54.hawaii.res.rr.com> has joined ##OpenGL[09:28:00] <metalice> can i jump in here , i have a texture issue, question ?[09:28:01] <bookmark> im sending in 60 bone 4x4s and 60 vec3 offsets[09:28:12] <Yaniel> metalice: shoot[09:28:14] *** castlelore <castlelore!~bes@cpe-76-173-200-54.hawaii.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Changing host)[09:28:14] *** castlelore <castlelore!~bes@unaffiliated/castlelore> has joined ##OpenGL[09:28:17] *** castlelore is now known as castleboar[09:28:26] <Yaniel> bookmark: separately or in one go?[09:28:30] <metalice> i have a textured square like this[09:28:31] <metalice> https://snag.gy/WSxdJ5.jpg[09:28:44] <metalice> zoom out a bit[09:28:45] <metalice> https://snag.gy/kLDIqp.jpg[09:28:49] <Yaniel> it's not much data but if you have separate calls for each of them the overhead adds up quickly[09:28:51] <metalice> some more https://snag.gy/BQJWFo.jpg[09:29:33] <bookmark> its in two arrays[09:29:35] <metalice> using this atm[09:29:35] <metalice> GL.TexParameter(this.TextureTarget, TextureParameterName.TextureMagFilter, (int) TextureMagFilter.Nearest);[09:29:36] <metalice> GL.TexParameter(this.TextureTarget, TextureParameterName.TextureMinFilter, (int) TextureMinFilter.Nearest);[09:29:43] <bookmark> uniforms[09:29:55] <metalice> how can i stop the "dithering" or whatever its doing ?[09:30:10] <Yaniel> metalice: TextureMinFilter.Nearest means it just grabs the value of the nearest texel[09:30:15] <Yaniel> when zooming out[09:30:18] <bookmark> could be z error[09:30:22] <Yaniel> and that texel happens to be white[09:30:25] <bookmark> are there two planes there[09:30:42] <bookmark> yeah or mipmapping error[09:30:44] <Yaniel> nah, the texture looks a bit noisy[09:30:49] <Yaniel> no mipmaps involved either[09:30:56] <Yaniel> just nearest-neighbour filtering[09:31:07] <bookmark> oh[09:31:41] <metalice> hmm, ok, dont know where to start to fix that :P[09:31:50] <bookmark> put linear[09:31:51] <Yaniel> metalice: use TextureMinFilter.Linear or one of the mipmap filters to have GL interpolate between nearby texels[09:31:53] <metalice> my texture loading code looks like this[09:31:54] <metalice> https://snag.gy/lSaEdH.jpg[09:32:26] <Yaniel> the mipmap ones won't work unless you call glGenerateMipmaps (or supply them manually) after glTexImage[09:32:53] <metalice> i have that in the last line[09:33:18] <bookmark> just change Nearest to Linear metalice[09:33:30] <Yaniel> then you can use any of the available filtering modes[09:33:36] <Yaniel> mipmaps usually give the best quality[09:34:23] <bookmark> or that[09:34:59] <metalice> ok, ill try that, have to figure out howto do that quick[09:35:02] <metalice> thanks[09:35:22] <Yaniel> just change the MinFilter parameter...[09:35:38] <metalice> ok testing that now[09:37:41] *** akaWolf <akaWolf!~akaWolf@unaffiliated/akawolf> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[09:37:51] *** Cooler <Cooler!~coolerext@27.97.172.26> has joined ##OpenGL[09:38:49] *** doek <doek!~doek@2.56.62.188.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined ##OpenGL[09:39:54] *** reddv <reddv!~dredev@b07-406b.kn.vutbr.cz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[09:45:27] <metalice> ok, the texture from straight ahead looks better[09:45:33] <metalice> but i still have 2 issues now[09:45:49] <metalice> when retated it looks like this[09:45:56] <metalice> https://snag.gy/ZKMATg.jpg[09:46:09] *** xaxxon <xaxxon!~xaxxon@73.109.60.231> has joined ##OpenGL[09:46:37] <Yaniel> have you enabled anisotropic filtering?[09:47:23] <bookmark> it could be the geometry as i stated earlier, z error[09:47:39] <bookmark> if you have a cube there and then also a plane or something[09:47:47] <bookmark> or two cubes on accident[09:49:26] <Yaniel> that would likely look a bit different[09:50:24] <Yaniel> oh wait, is this zoomed in now?[09:50:45] <Yaniel> because it could also have something to do with the magnification filter[09:50:55] <Yaniel> which you had also set to nearest[09:51:59] <metalice> yes zoomed in[09:52:04] <metalice> also it alternates with zoom[09:52:13] <metalice> all white, then next zoom point all texture[09:52:14] <Yaniel> try setting MagFilter to Linear[09:53:11] <metalice> also bookmark: i do have a small cube ontop of the base[09:53:17] <metalice> the front one has the texture on[09:53:29] <metalice> the base cube has a white texture on[09:53:35] <metalice> testing linear now[09:54:15] <Yaniel> if you have two cubes there, z fighting could indeed be an issue too[09:54:22] <Yaniel> although this is a weird pattern for that[09:55:36] <metalice> https://snag.gy/gS24PZ.jpg[09:56:03] <metalice> https://snag.gy/zsCFKX.jpg[09:56:06] <metalice> between zooms[09:56:31] <metalice> different levels of cubes and textures showing[09:56:41] <metalice> its like the z is locked to a depth[09:57:14] <metalice> and just rotating a bit does this[09:57:15] <metalice> https://snag.gy/gjc5dy.jpg[09:58:12] <Yaniel> so wait what cubes are there now[09:58:24] <metalice> lemme make a drawing quick[09:58:25] <metalice> :)[10:00:14] <metalice> https://snag.gy/LZuJmY.jpg[10:00:17] <metalice> thats side view[10:00:41] <metalice> the arrows point to the cube with the texture on that comes from a bitmap[10:01:10] <metalice> the larger blocks just have a small 1x1 white texture on[10:02:08] <Yaniel> so you have an extra cube on one side of both of those cubes just for the texture?[10:05:22] <metalice> ye[10:05:55] <Yaniel> why >.<[10:06:10] <metalice> i know you can spec the texture on the base cube just havnt got around to it yet[10:06:16] <metalice> still very much in dev phase[10:06:18] <Yaniel> z fighting indeed seems likely in that case[10:06:20] <metalice> and this is old code[10:06:23] *** glYoda <glYoda!~MTLYoda@c-73-25-27-206.hsd1.or.comcast.net> has joined ##OpenGL[10:06:47] <metalice> i think i might have found the issue[10:06:52] <metalice> just testing[10:08:49] <metalice> https://snag.gy/nBEhsb.jpg[10:08:55] <metalice> yeah much better[10:09:11] <metalice> the little texture block was too "thin"[10:09:23] <metalice> i mad it 1 mm instead of 0.1 mm[10:10:20] <metalice> still have front issues now though[10:10:21] <metalice> https://snag.gy/u7WPDI.jpg[10:10:34] *** slidercrank <slidercrank!~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[10:13:07] <spear2> z fighting?[10:14:25] <metalice> seems so, how can i fix it without making the cube larger ?[10:17:32] *** flavi0 <flavi0!~anon@unaffiliated/flavi0> has joined ##OpenGL[10:19:50] *** bayoubengal <bayoubengal!~bayoubeng@rrcs-50-84-94-202.sw.biz.rr.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[10:20:08] *** bayoubengal <bayoubengal!~bayoubeng@rrcs-50-84-94-202.sw.biz.rr.com> has joined ##OpenGL[10:20:20] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[10:23:43] <spear2> metalice: polygon offset maybe? dunno never used it[10:26:09] *** Kingsquee <Kingsquee!~kingsquee@d108-180-237-219.bchsia.telus.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Just Monica.)[10:31:50] *** Asu <Asu!~sdelang@AMarseille-658-1-119-62.w86-219.abo.wanadoo.fr> has joined ##OpenGL[10:33:01] *** threenuc <threenuc!~threenuc@88.156.163.16> has joined ##OpenGL[10:35:34] <metalice> could it be my shader ?[10:48:35] *** groton <groton!~groton@unaffiliated/groton> has quit IRC (Quit: groton)[10:53:50] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-68-175.internetia.net.pl> has joined ##OpenGL[10:54:44] <metalice> the back part of that cubes textures doesnt to it, so it could be the way i constructed the vbo ?[11:09:31] *** Asu <Asu!~sdelang@AMarseille-658-1-119-62.w86-219.abo.wanadoo.fr> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[11:10:03] *** Asu <Asu!~sdelang@AMarseille-658-1-119-62.w86-219.abo.wanadoo.fr> has joined ##OpenGL[11:13:08] *** goiko__ <goiko__!~goiko@p5DEB78F4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: ﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿ O'RLY? Bye!)[11:14:43] *** goiko <goiko!~goiko@unaffiliated/goiko> has joined ##OpenGL[11:23:18] <Yaniel> I would just fix your models and see if the problem persists[11:24:01] *** threenuc <threenuc!~threenuc@88.156.163.16> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[11:24:13] *** _gr3g_2 <_gr3g_2!~greg@pool-72-80-159-17.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined ##OpenGL[11:29:23] <metalice> yeah, do you have a link closeby which outlines the steps ?[11:30:44] <Yaniel> you could just google "opengl texturing tutorial"[11:31:12] <Yaniel> https://learnopengl.com/Getting-started/Textures but here you go[11:33:45] <metalice> thanks, was hoping to get your best pick :)[11:34:05] <metalice> just googling is what got me into problems in the first place[11:37:22] *** hellozee <hellozee!~hellozee@45.118.156.236> has joined ##OpenGL[11:37:43] <metalice> but really, thanks for the help Yaniel:[11:37:59] *** ville <ville!~ville@37-136-113-16.rev.dnainternet.fi> has joined ##OpenGL[11:39:54] *** xaxxon <xaxxon!~xaxxon@73.109.60.231> has quit IRC (Quit: xaxxon)[11:46:22] <Dariusz> Hey[11:46:23] *** threenuc <threenuc!~threenuc@88.156.163.16> has joined ##OpenGL[11:46:24] *** Asu <Asu!~sdelang@AMarseille-658-1-119-62.w86-219.abo.wanadoo.fr> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)[11:46:57] <Dariusz> openGL "display" is it measured from (-1.0,-1.0) to (1.0,1.1) ?[11:47:15] *** SiN_Bizkit <SiN_Bizkit!~SiN_Bizki@78.140.13.203> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[11:47:27] <Dariusz> so if I want to click on pixel, and then be able to tell openGL where I click on its "display" I have to convert my pixel x/y cords to display (-1.0,-1.0) to (1.0,1.1 coords?[11:47:30] <Yaniel> display coordinates are -1..1 yes[11:47:51] *** SiN_Bizkit <SiN_Bizkit!~SiN_Bizki@studio.unigine.com> has joined ##OpenGL[11:47:57] <Yaniel> why would you tell opengl about clicks?[11:49:09] <Dariusz> well if I want to cast a ray from a click, I need to go from x/y window coords, to openGL display coords, to some black magic inverted camera matrix to get to world matrix, and then use camera position/direction vectors to cas a ray somehow...[11:49:22] <Dariusz> so just learning trying to understand all the process that happens[11:49:50] *** begui <begui!~bj@108-200-216-48.lightspeed.dybhfl.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[11:49:53] *** ngm <ngm!~nishanth@183.82.187.154> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[11:49:54] *** Dave13h <Dave13h!~Dave@gibson.int13h.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[11:50:02] <Dariusz> I know that camera projection matrix is matrix4x4.perspective(), so one I have my openGL display coords, I have to somehow use them with inverted perspective(), I think not sure. still reading/trying to figure it out in my head ;- )[11:50:11] *** Dave13h <Dave13h!~Dave@gibson.int13h.com> has joined ##OpenGL[11:50:11] *** ngm <ngm!~nishanth@183.82.187.154> has joined ##OpenGL[11:50:12] *** begui <begui!~bj@108-200-216-48.lightspeed.dybhfl.sbcglobal.net> has joined ##OpenGL[11:50:35] <Stragus> If you understand the forward transform, performing the inverse shouldn't be too hard[11:50:44] <Stragus> What do you use to learn OpenGL? They should cover that stuff[11:50:45] <Yaniel> yeah[11:50:56] <Yaniel> just go one step at a time[11:51:16] <Dariusz> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA1P4PtXl_Q&index=37&list=PLRwVmtr-pp06qT6ckboaOhnm9FxmzHpbY Kings videos, he talks a lot about matrix/perspective/and so on. I'm just trying to understand it all properly[11:52:16] <Stragus> Okay... If that doesn't work, try reading resources from the channel's topic[11:52:28] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host86-178-171-7.range86-178.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[11:52:33] *** chirpsalot <chirpsalot!~Chirps@unaffiliated/chirpsalot> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[11:52:51] <Dariusz> the book from top? I'm slowly reading it too[11:53:14] *** SiN_Bizkit <SiN_Bizkit!~SiN_Bizki@studio.unigine.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[11:53:28] *** chirpsalot <chirpsalot!~Chirps@unaffiliated/chirpsalot> has joined ##OpenGL[11:53:35] *** flavi0 <flavi0!~anon@unaffiliated/flavi0> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[11:53:53] <Yaniel> there are links named "Tutorials" and "Examples"[11:53:58] <Yaniel> not sure what book you are referring to[11:53:59] <Dariusz> when you say forward transform, do you mean vector3 + vector3 ? or a matrix forward transform which is... thesame as far as I know ? o.O[11:54:25] *** SiN_Bizkit <SiN_Bizkit!~SiN_Bizki@78.140.13.203> has joined ##OpenGL[11:54:37] <Dariusz> Modern OpenGL Guide is in one of links as pdf[11:55:21] <Stragus> Dariusz: The whole transform from model XYZ vertices to XY+depth in viewport[11:55:52] <Dariusz> humh[11:57:07] *** flavi0 <flavi0!~anon@unaffiliated/flavi0> has joined ##OpenGL[11:58:14] *** maeln1 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quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[13:04:41] <bookmark> anyone know what libarary is floor in?[13:04:57] <bookmark> like: floor ( 2.3 ) out: 2.0[13:04:59] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has joined ##OpenGL[13:05:05] <bookmark> in c++[13:05:26] <bookmark> i tried tgmath.h[13:05:31] <bookmark> says it can't find that[13:05:42] <exDM69_> man 3 floor[13:05:53] <bookmark> oh cmath or ctgmath[13:05:54] <bookmark> sorry[13:05:58] <exDM69_> it's in math.h header and -lm library[13:07:36] <Adrinael> cmath has std::floor, math.h has ::floor()[13:07:39] <Adrinael> If using C++[13:07:43] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7mo56rkk6i6rq5.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined ##OpenGL[13:11:20] *** ratchet_freak <ratchet_freak!~ratchetfr@d51a4beaf.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)[13:12:03] *** DarkUranium <DarkUranium!~DarkUrani@77.38.34.248> has joined ##OpenGL[13:21:54] *** metalice <metalice!~metalice@169-0-91-240.ip.afrihost.co.za> has quit IRC ()[13:30:34] *** bellbreaker <bellbreaker!~husker@77.11.150.83.ftth.as8758.net> has joined ##OpenGL[13:31:23] *** ngm <ngm!~nishanth@183.82.187.154> has joined ##OpenGL[13:31:41] <bellbreaker> Why would setting glClearColor with an alpha of either 1 OR 0 result in consecutive frames being drawing on top of each other in an FBO?[13:32:27] *** Waynes <Waynes!~Waynes@23.94.61.168> has joined ##OpenGL[13:32:39] <zid> because the clear color is on top and semitransparent?[13:32:53] <zid> so you don't actually 'clear' i t[13:33:05] <zid> just a guess, I've not seen how it works internally[13:33:10] <Yaniel> because glClearColor does not clear anything[13:33:18] <Yaniel> glClear does[13:33:41] <zid> also that, reading comprehsion is hard :([13:33:44] <Yaniel> glClearColor only defines what value should be used for clearing[13:34:01] *** spear2 <spear2!~spear2@71-95-117-135.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com> has joined ##OpenGL[13:34:12] <Yaniel> also you can clear to completely transparent and the previous frame still should not show through[13:34:26] <Yaniel> because clear is basically doing memset()[13:34:28] <zid> good[13:34:47] <exDM69_> yes, there's no alpha blending in clear[13:35:26] <zid> That makes a lot more sense but the sandwiching was all I could think of cosndiering I read it as glclear not glclearcolor[13:35:40] <Yaniel> bellbreaker: are you actually calling glClear too?[13:36:43] *** hellozee <hellozee!~hellozee@45.118.156.236> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[13:36:48] <bellbreaker> Yes I am calling glClear[13:37:11] <bellbreaker> I'm rendering to an FBO in Qt. I am just trying to figure out what could cause this on the opengl side[13:37:34] <Yaniel> is the FBO complete when you clear it?[13:37:49] <Yaniel> are all rendertargets you need attached at that point?[13:38:10] <bellbreaker> According to the Qt docs, the FBO should be bound when Qt calls my render function[13:38:31] <bellbreaker> and otherwise it works perfectly fine. I can draw whatever I want as normal. I just cannot clear to black[13:38:41] <bellbreaker> clearing to white works fine though[13:38:58] <zid> blagick pink[13:39:12] <bellbreaker> let me try hideous magenta[13:42:00] *** Mangy_Dog <Mangy_Dog!Mangy_Dog@05449fa3.skybroadband.com> has joined ##OpenGL[13:42:51] <bellbreaker> Hmm. When I render a quad in any color. It leaves behind a white quad that is not cleared on glClear. So I don't notice it when the background is white also[13:43:05] <DarkUranium> how are you calling glClear?[13:43:19] <DarkUranium> are you using GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT?[13:43:55] <bellbreaker> and depth buffer yes[13:44:19] <exDM69_> you're probably clearing the wrong framebuffer[13:44:27] <DarkUranium> ^[13:44:31] <Mangy_Dog> Im doing some simple UI programming for a embedded video engine that uses a spin on openGL. And im having a little difficulty as the original documentation for the graphics chip is poorly written. I have done some googling but I would like a little hands on talking about stenciling. Im a bit lost on the stensiling commands... Can anyone help?[13:44:40] <bellbreaker> ah no, it's not a white quad that gets left behind. It's some interaction between the alpha values[13:45:06] <exDM69_> Mangy_Dog: can you be more specific than that?[13:45:09] <bellbreaker> If I am clearing the wrong framebuffer, how can I draw to it?[13:45:37] <exDM69_> Mangy_Dog: the stencil buffer is a pretty simple concept[13:45:48] <Mangy_Dog> well basically put, im struggling to understand the stencilign tools... there doesnt really seem to be any logical way of using it.[13:46:00] <Mangy_Dog> ok ill explain my current task[13:46:14] <Mangy_Dog> im trying to make a radial progress bar...[13:46:20] <exDM69_> you have an 8 bit buffer of stencil values, and you can do a per-pixel stencil test whether a pixel should be drawn or not[13:46:34] <exDM69_> and then update the stencil values depending if the depth-stencil test passed or not[13:46:35] <Mangy_Dog> i understand the concept[13:46:45] <Mangy_Dog> its the commands i dont understand[13:47:00] <zid> so what are the commands, what are you trying to use[13:47:01] <zid> and what do you get[13:47:09] <zid> you know, things that would actually help us debug your problem[13:47:19] <zid> not "I don't know how stencils work" followed by an explanation followed by "I know that already"[13:48:08] <Mangy_Dog> the three commands that the eve tool i use uses are stencil_op stencil_funcstencail_mask[13:48:40] <Mangy_Dog> i dont even know what order the commands are meant to be used in[13:48:42] <exDM69_> stencil op is what is the operation done to the stencil buffer (e.g. increase value if stencil test passes)[13:48:54] <exDM69_> stencil func is the "test" that takes place (ie. not equal to 0)[13:49:05] <exDM69_> and stencil mask is a bitmask used in the test[13:49:13] <exDM69_> the order in which you give them doesn't matter[13:49:36] <exDM69_> like most GL functions, they just change the stencil state[13:50:14] <Mangy_Dog> hmm ok as i said im making a radial progress bar... Im using 2 points of different radiuses to mask out the bar... 1st point is the goes to the outter edge of the bar second point inner edge[13:50:48] *** emmanueloga_ <emmanueloga_!sid23099@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-termdliullipscms> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[13:50:50] *** joel135 <joel135!sid136450@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xolcbitsppzpdrun> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[13:51:28] <exDM69_> I'm not sure stencil test is the best way to do what you want but go on[13:51:32] <Mangy_Dog> i will also use either a multipoint line or set of edge strips to fill up the stenciled progress bar[13:51:56] <Mangy_Dog> cant use alphas as ive already maxed out my limited g ram[13:52:11] *** Zaneo <Zaneo!~Zaneo@45.55.2.85> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[13:52:21] <zid> what is this running on out of interest[13:52:29] <Mangy_Dog> ftdi eve chip[13:52:34] <Mangy_Dog> currently controlled by an arduino[13:52:41] <Mangy_Dog> but going to be stm32f4 soonish[13:52:47] *** hgoel <hgoel!uid175521@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mcwxsdyumdeivuet> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[13:53:03] *** emmanueloga_ <emmanueloga_!sid23099@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ntphoiceqoqvshcg> has joined ##OpenGL[13:53:12] <zid> no 1bit alpha support?[13:53:26] *** hgoel <hgoel!uid175521@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xmprmxstyyaozulo> has joined ##OpenGL[13:53:27] <exDM69_> never heard of 1 bit alpha[13:53:30] <Mangy_Dog> no because ive already run out of space[13:53:47] <Mangy_Dog> exDM69_ i think he meant l1 textures[13:53:48] <zid> exDM69_: 1555 is a pretty common internal format outside of the desktop gpu world[13:54:04] <Mangy_Dog> L1 could be used[13:54:08] <Mangy_Dog> but again... no space :p[13:54:24] <zid> Do you have shaders and some free gpu load? :P[13:54:32] <Mangy_Dog> no[13:54:35] <zid> shame[13:54:40] <zid> shaders make it realllly easy[13:54:46] *** joel135 <joel135!sid136450@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kvdzyslpspzufsnd> has joined ##OpenGL[13:54:47] <Mangy_Dog> its a really simple embedded ui tool[13:54:59] <exDM69_> anyway, you need to draw in two passes 1) color buffer write disabled, fill stencil buffer 2) color writes enabled, draw your shape with stencil test enabled[13:55:02] *** phillip_w <phillip_w!~phil@162.243.147.19> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[13:55:03] <Mangy_Dog> if anything ive really been pushing it to its limits already[13:55:15] *** Zaneo <Zaneo!~Zaneo@45.55.2.85> has joined ##OpenGL[13:55:28] <exDM69_> so you have a big circle and want to "subtract" small circle out of it[13:55:38] <Mangy_Dog> well sort of[13:55:40] <exDM69_> first draw big circle with GL_INCR stencil op[13:55:50] <exDM69_> then draw small circle with GL_DECR stencil op[13:56:16] <Mangy_Dog> subtract small circle and use the strip thats left as a mask for another object that would make up the bar filler[13:56:37] <exDM69_> then draw the shape with glStencilFunc(GL_NOTEQUAL, 0, 0xff)[13:56:51] *** goiko_ <goiko_!~goiko@p5DEB78F4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: ﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿ O'RLY? Bye!)[13:57:20] <exDM69_> Mangy_Dog: doing a speedometer for a car dashboard?[13:57:25] <Mangy_Dog> yes[13:57:27] <Mangy_Dog> well bike[13:57:28] *** phillip_w <phillip_w!~phil@162.243.147.19> has joined ##OpenGL[13:57:33] <Mangy_Dog> you found my youtube?[13:58:05] <exDM69_> no, I put 1+1 together, ftdi cheapo graphics chip + radial progress bar[13:58:34] <zid> I found your youtube, this is a lot of adult men in squirrel costumes[13:58:45] <Mangy_Dog> :o[13:58:51] <Mangy_Dog> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtLtihhfuvk[13:58:59] <Mangy_Dog> is what im working on[13:59:12] <DarkUranium> hm[13:59:22] <DarkUranium> is it normal for a single error to output 2 callbacks?[13:59:26] <DarkUranium> with KHR_debug?[13:59:36] <exDM69_> DarkUranium: sure why not[13:59:46] <DarkUranium> exDM69_, with almost exactly the same text? Lemme paste it[14:00:19] <DarkUranium> it's only 2 lines, so I'll just paste here:[14:00:23] <DarkUranium> GL_INVALID_VALUE error generated. Program handle does not refer to an object generated by OpenGL.[14:00:23] <DarkUranium> GL_INVALID_VALUE error generated. <program> handle does not refer to an object generated by OpenGL.[14:00:37] <DarkUranium> same source/type/severity, even same ID[14:00:52] <zid> possibly a bagu in the driver[14:00:53] *** goiko <goiko!~goiko@unaffiliated/goiko> has joined ##OpenGL[14:00:57] <DarkUranium> (this was triggered by a `glUseProgram(10)` --- I was just testing if I got the debug callback setup properly)[14:01:06] <Yaniel> people still pull gl object handles out of their hats?[14:01:15] <DarkUranium> Yaniel, when testing KHR_debug, yes :P[14:01:27] <Yaniel> fair enough[14:01:47] <DarkUranium> it's just the first function that came to mind with few arguments that would toss an error[14:02:02] <DarkUranium> it doesn't matter much (and I could cache the last error ID), but still[14:02:48] <DarkUranium> I haven't done that even back in GL2 days, I'd always generate objects (I didn't realize until recently that you even *COULD* use them directly)[14:02:50] <exDM69_> DarkUranium: why is this important?[14:03:02] <DarkUranium> exDM69_, it isn't very important, but it does add to noise, so I was wondering[14:03:22] <exDM69_> DarkUranium: there aren't a lot of restrictions under which conditions the driver may spew debug output[14:03:33] <DarkUranium> right[14:04:07] <exDM69_> so while it's a bit odd, I think there's nothing wrong with it[14:04:47] <exDM69_> I wouldn't bother doing anything to it[14:05:32] <zid> I can sort of visualise why the code might end up giving you the error twice but I can't express it[14:06:09] <zid> some complicated control flow that makes it really hard to exit cleanly in an error state getting slightly confused[14:14:49] *** _gr3g_2 <_gr3g_2!~greg@pool-72-80-159-17.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[14:18:56] *** _gr3g_2 <_gr3g_2!~greg@pool-72-80-159-17.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined ##OpenGL[14:20:14] *** JohnCoates <JohnCoates!~JohnCoate@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:a8a3:304f:fda> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[14:20:21] *** JohnCoates <JohnCoates!~JohnCoate@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:a8a3:304f:fda> has joined ##OpenGL[14:23:16] *** Oddmonger <Oddmonger!~Odd@unaffiliated/oddmonger> has joined ##OpenGL[14:23:34] <Oddmonger> hello[14:23:42] <Yaniel> hi[14:23:52] <Mangy_Dog> exDM69_ https://pastebin.com/b6qd9FDY doesnt appear to be doing anything :/[14:23:56] <Mangy_Dog> well its not working[14:24:05] <bookmark> woot i have pages in my texture atlas builder now[14:24:13] <bookmark> so i could load a font or whatever[14:24:19] *** Xeek <Xeek!~xeek@unaffiliated/xeek> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[14:24:23] <Oddmonger> i'm trying to texture a quad, and i'm not sure that vertices coordinates and textures coordinates use the same coordinate system[14:24:34] <Oddmonger> i've found documentation , of course, but i'm a bit confused[14:24:57] <Oddmonger> for texture coordinates, i'm sure that origin is at bottom left of «screen»[14:25:12] <zid> texture coordinates and screenspace are unrelated[14:25:15] <Oddmonger> for vertices, i _think_ origin is upper left, can your confirm ?[14:25:18] <zid> uvs are 0-1[14:25:51] <zid> verticies can be whatever you like, it's your shader that determines where they end up onscreen[14:25:59] <Mangy_Dog> wait[14:26:01] <Mangy_Dog> got it working[14:26:03] <zid> with your translation/scale/rotation matrices and your perspective matricies[14:26:11] <Mangy_Dog> i think[14:26:26] <zid> UV coordinates are locked to 0-1 because that's the range the texture sampler wants[14:26:43] <Oddmonger> zid: you mean a wrong persp matrix could lead the quad to be upside down ?[14:26:52] <zid> sure why not[14:26:58] <zid> or any other matrix you multiply by[14:27:00] <Oddmonger> it's well textured, but it's upside down[14:27:11] <zid> bear in mind opengl wants textures like bmps[14:27:13] <zid> last row first[14:27:29] <Oddmonger> oh[14:27:30] <zid> you can just invert all of your UVs and load things the 'normal' way up of course[14:27:38] <zid> if it's easier[14:28:47] <zid> but they'll all show as flipped in debug tools etc[14:29:45] <zid> (I just made my png loader do rows[height-i-1] = ...;)[14:30:23] *** _gr3g_2 <_gr3g_2!~greg@pool-72-80-159-17.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[14:32:58] *** _gr3g_2 <_gr3g_2!~greg@pool-72-80-159-17.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined ##OpenGL[14:33:29] *** neuro_sys <neuro_sys!~user@unaffiliated/neurosys/x-283974> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[14:33:53] *** neuro_sys <neuro_sys!~user@185-11-209-162.s1networks.fi> has joined ##OpenGL[14:34:17] *** neuro_sys is now known as Guest78774[14:34:45] <bellbreaker> in case anyone is wondering how I solved the problem: I was using instanced drawing to draw a grid of quads, using a float value per instance to mask whether this quad should be visible by using this value as the alpha value in the fragment shader. This value was only ever 1.0 or 0.0. Now I converted this input to an int and use an if/else in the fragment shader to either set alpha to 1 or 0 based on[14:34:51] <bellbreaker> the int. Somehow this works, but I don't understand why[14:38:08] *** Guest78774 <Guest78774!~user@185-11-209-162.s1networks.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[14:38:17] *** ipe <ipe!~ipe@91-156-244-112.elisa-laajakaista.fi> has joined ##OpenGL[14:38:35] <bookmark> now i've got 128 256 size textures and i'm only using 2 texture registers[14:38:40] *** neuro_sy` <neuro_sy`!~user@185-11-209-162.s1networks.fi> has joined ##OpenGL[14:38:44] <bookmark> wee[14:39:18] <bookmark> now how do i test 3 pages i wonder[14:39:26] <bookmark> i'd need to load my font[14:39:30] <bookmark> i suppose[14:41:30] *** Albori <Albori!~Albori@64-251-148-158.fidnet.com> has joined ##OpenGL[14:43:29] *** neuro_sy` <neuro_sy`!~user@185-11-209-162.s1networks.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[14:47:47] <Oddmonger> zid: well, just by centering my quad, it's ok now Oo[14:49:21] *** CoolerX <CoolerX!~coolerext@27.97.182.187> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[14:53:19] *** neuro_sy` <neuro_sy`!~user@185-11-209-162.s1networks.fi> has joined ##OpenGL[14:53:48] *** reduz <reduz!sid223967@godotengine/reduz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[14:56:14] *** emmanueloga_ <emmanueloga_!sid23099@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ntphoiceqoqvshcg> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[14:56:15] *** M28 <M28!sid210233@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hxygjhbokymogisr> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[14:56:32] *** reduz <reduz!sid223967@godotengine/reduz> has joined ##OpenGL[14:57:13] *** emmanueloga_ <emmanueloga_!sid23099@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oycyvfgfywpkgyku> has joined ##OpenGL[14:57:56] *** M28 <M28!sid210233@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mhbzwsyxuchpjieo> has joined ##OpenGL[14:57:56] *** neuro_sy` <neuro_sy`!~user@185-11-209-162.s1networks.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[15:02:50] *** Meow-J_ <Meow-J_!sid69628@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wqfqtbnoudpcotdh> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[15:05:24] <bookmark> can a surface pro run a 4k display ?[15:05:39] <bookmark> i think my big tv is 4k[15:05:44] <bookmark> not sure but its huge[15:06:46] *** Meow-J_ <Meow-J_!sid69628@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-szhvchgnqlupqvom> has joined ##OpenGL[15:07:01] <bookmark> i need to get a lan party going or something[15:07:10] *** neuro_sy` <neuro_sy`!~user@185-11-209-162.s1networks.fi> has joined ##OpenGL[15:08:49] *** tambry <tambry!~tambre@fd2b-8793-6fe7-61d7-ab80-8a0a-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee> has joined ##OpenGL[15:11:50] *** neuro_sy` <neuro_sy`!~user@185-11-209-162.s1networks.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[15:11:54] *** ngm_ <ngm_!~nishanth@183.82.187.154> has joined ##OpenGL[15:12:23] *** hampusw <hampusw!~Hampus@37.139.156.40> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[15:12:47] *** tambre2 <tambre2!~tambre@206-195-196-88.dyn.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)[15:14:31] *** hampusw <hampusw!~Hampus@37.139.156.40> has joined ##OpenGL[15:14:37] *** ngm <ngm!~nishanth@183.82.187.154> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[15:19:36] *** StuartW <StuartW!~stuart@165.225.80.106> has joined ##OpenGL[15:19:47] *** Borkr <Borkr!~Borkr@mail.seaonics.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[15:20:06] *** jokoon <jokoon!~jokoon@2a01:e35:2e08:9f10:3906:4425:b4b:4fc1> has joined ##OpenGL[15:20:07] *** CoolerX <CoolerX!~coolerext@27.97.182.187> has joined ##OpenGL[15:20:26] *** neuro_sy` <neuro_sy`!~user@185-11-209-162.s1networks.fi> has joined ##OpenGL[15:22:54] <Yaniel> bookmark: test by using smaller pages?[15:23:22] *** neuro_sy` <neuro_sy`!~user@185-11-209-162.s1networks.fi> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[15:23:41] *** neuro_sy` <neuro_sy`!~user@185-11-209-162.s1networks.fi> has joined ##OpenGL[15:28:49] *** neuro_sy` <neuro_sy`!~user@185-11-209-162.s1networks.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[15:34:46] *** echotangoecho <echotangoecho!~echotango@92-108-127-60.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl> has joined ##OpenGL[15:34:54] *** neuro_sy` <neuro_sy`!~user@185-11-209-162.s1networks.fi> has joined ##OpenGL[15:35:01] <bookmark> 4 pages[15:35:08] <bookmark> good idea[15:35:18] <bookmark> but that would take some more work[15:35:22] <bookmark> i just loopified it[15:35:32] <bookmark> and the page and part of another still load[15:35:56] <bookmark> but there are in the memory of the loop[15:36:01] <bookmark> more[15:36:14] <bookmark> i just need to put more textures into it now[15:38:40] *** op9 <op9!znc@rouk.org> has joined ##OpenGL[15:39:10] *** CoolerX <CoolerX!~coolerext@27.97.182.187> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[15:40:02] *** neuro_sy` <neuro_sy`!~user@185-11-209-162.s1networks.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[15:43:17] *** jokoon <jokoon!~jokoon@2a01:e35:2e08:9f10:3906:4425:b4b:4fc1> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[15:45:07] *** CoolerX <CoolerX!~coolerext@27.97.182.187> has joined ##OpenGL[15:47:20] *** borkr <borkr!~borkr@static130-244.mimer.net> has joined ##OpenGL[15:50:47] *** _gr3g_2 <_gr3g_2!~greg@pool-72-80-159-17.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[15:54:22] *** neure <neure!~tsuoranta@62.209.167.43> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[15:59:13] *** CoolerX <CoolerX!~coolerext@27.97.182.187> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[16:00:40] *** raynold <raynold!uid201163@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xusacppziqkacswb> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[16:01:53] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[16:15:54] *** spear2 <spear2!~spear2@71-95-117-135.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:16:02] *** hampusw <hampusw!~Hampus@37.139.156.40> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[16:16:11] *** Waynes <Waynes!~Waynes@23.94.61.168> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[16:16:18] *** neuro_sy` <neuro_sy`!~user@185-11-209-162.s1networks.fi> has joined ##OpenGL[16:17:31] *** StuartW <StuartW!~stuart@165.225.80.106> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)[16:20:57] *** neuro_sy` <neuro_sy`!~user@185-11-209-162.s1networks.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[16:22:06] *** Cooler <Cooler!~coolerext@27.97.182.187> has joined ##OpenGL[16:22:25] *** Waynes <Waynes!~Waynes@23.94.61.168> has joined ##OpenGL[16:26:06] <DarkUranium> question.[16:26:10] <DarkUranium> what are the possible reasons for "Program/shader state performance warning: Fragment shader in program 0 is being recompiled based on GL state."[16:28:33] *** spear2 <spear2!~spear2@71-95-117-135.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com> has joined ##OpenGL[16:28:38] <DarkUranium> http://vpaste.net/lgUnn[16:29:01] <zid> Did you do a glEnable in your render path somewhere[16:29:22] <DarkUranium> glEnable of what?[16:29:28] <zid> anything[16:29:37] <DarkUranium> GL_DEBUG_OUTPUT, yes.[16:29:41] <DarkUranium> that's literally it[16:29:46] <zid> actually in the render path?[16:29:51] <DarkUranium> no, that's before it[16:29:55] <DarkUranium> render path has, basically:[16:30:16] <zid> That message sounds like "some global state changed and we compiled a bytecode shader assuming it was off"[16:30:24] <zid> "so now it's out of date"[16:30:25] <DarkUranium> glClear(...); glBindProgramPipeline(pipeline); glDrawArrays(...); SDL_GL_SwapWindow(...);[16:30:28] <DarkUranium> actually, not "basically"[16:30:30] <DarkUranium> it's literally just that.[16:31:22] <DarkUranium> now it randomly stopped appearing again[16:31:28] <DarkUranium> (it randomly starts & stops appearing)[16:31:34] <DarkUranium> I did *no* code changes.[16:31:43] *** ImQ009 <ImQ009!~ImQ009@unaffiliated/imq009> has joined ##OpenGL[16:31:58] <zid> your driver sounds fun[16:32:45] *** Croepha <Croepha!~Croepha@45.55.252.156> has joined ##OpenGL[16:32:59] <DarkUranium> GL_VERSION: 4.5.0 NVIDIA 388.13[16:33:02] <DarkUranium> that's my driver.[16:33:07] <zid> That explains a lot[16:33:09] <DarkUranium> lol[16:33:10] <DarkUranium> why?[16:33:20] <zid> nvidia's opengl is just a directx frontend done in userspace, for the most part[16:33:44] <zid> The card itself basically runs directx bytecode[16:38:41] *** ville <ville!~ville@188-67-99-146.bb.dnainternet.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[16:40:16] *** Oddmonger <Oddmonger!~Odd@unaffiliated/oddmonger> has left ##OpenGL ("see you :)")[16:48:07] *** CoolerX <CoolerX!~coolerext@27.97.178.32> has joined ##OpenGL[16:50:46] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host86-176-242-213.range86-176.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##OpenGL[16:51:33] *** Cooler <Cooler!~coolerext@27.97.182.187> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[16:53:03] *** _gr3g_2 <_gr3g_2!~greg@pool-72-80-159-17.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined ##OpenGL[16:53:50] *** ngm_ <ngm_!~nishanth@183.82.187.154> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[16:54:11] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has joined ##OpenGL[16:54:41] <exDM69_> zid: that statement is completely and utterly false[16:55:06] <zid> exDM69_: nvidia engineers have told me as much[16:55:16] <exDM69_> no, you have misunderstood[16:55:35] <zid> Plus all my bugreports come back as WONTFIX for the same reason[16:55:41] <exDM69_> please refrain from making claims and giving advice you're not fairly certain about[16:56:56] <zid> please refrain from making claims and giving advice you're not fairly certain about[16:57:02] <zid> applies to you too telling me you're certain it's not true[16:57:49] *** acksys_ <acksys_!~fritz@mail12.shutterfly.com> has joined ##OpenGL[16:57:55] <exDM69_> eh[16:58:28] <zid> I've been told by nvidia engineers that it is how the microarch is designed[16:58:46] <exDM69_> you have completely misunderstood what they meant[16:58:52] *** BearishMushroom <BearishMushroom!~BearishMu@82-209-154-59.cust.bredband2.com> has joined ##OpenGL[16:58:59] <zid> so presumably you do know what they meant[16:59:14] <exDM69_> well I don't know what you've been told[16:59:19] <zid> You seem to[16:59:28] <exDM69_> but yeah, the HARDWARE is designed directx first[16:59:45] <zid> yes, we were refering to hardware to begin with[16:59:48] <exDM69_> but the *software* for d3d and opengl isn't really related[16:59:52] <zid> correct[16:59:54] <exDM69_> there's no "directx bytecode"[17:00:04] <zid> yes, there is, in the same way there is x86 bytecode[17:00:11] <zid> It runs actual dx commands as opcodes[17:00:13] <zid> in silicon[17:00:28] <exDM69_> there are no "dx commands" in silicon[17:00:41] <zid> Then I have a billion dollar idea for hwo to make their gpus faster[17:00:50] <zid> run dx commands in silicon[17:01:18] <exDM69_> the level of abstraction of d3d is far higher than what the gpu actually does[17:01:33] <zid> hence the bytecode[17:01:50] <exDM69_> what bytecode are you referring to?[17:02:10] <exDM69_> the gpu instruction set?[17:02:15] <zid> ask them, the instruction set isn't available[17:02:49] <exDM69_> well you can look around in open source drivers, there's plenty of information there about the instruction set[17:02:53] <exDM69_> mesa and nouveau[17:03:05] <chrisf> zid: if you want to know what the native shader isa looks like, have a look in nouveau.[17:03:06] <exDM69_> and it's got nothing to do with d3d[17:03:15] <zid> chrisf: not talking about shaders necessarily[17:03:38] <exDM69_> zid: if you want to look at the command buffer contents and structure, ditto, look at nouveau[17:04:25] <exDM69_> really, it's no secret... it's not public information from nv, but there has been significant reverse engineering done[17:05:04] <exDM69_> there's nothing really d3d-specific in there[17:05:13] <zid> except it all being designed to basically be how d3d works[17:05:21] <zid> other than that, yea[17:06:27] <exDM69_> but at that level, d3d, opengl do pretty similar things, despite the api and driver being completely different[17:06:35] *** xerpi <xerpi!~xerpi@4.red-83-45-194.dynamicip.rima-tde.net> has joined ##OpenGL[17:06:46] *** upgrdman <upgrdman!~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman> has joined ##OpenGL[17:07:02] <exDM69_> any claim that nv gl driver is some kind of emulation on top of d3d is nonsense[17:07:07] *** kasper_ <kasper_!~safaf@82.137.11.65> has joined ##OpenGL[17:07:10] <DarkUranium> yeah, D3D and OpenGL are very, very similar when you get down to it[17:07:11] *** kasper^ <kasper^!~safaf@82.137.11.128> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)[17:07:37] <DarkUranium> sure, there are some minor differences (and a major structural one, namely that GL is directly implemented by vendors, and D3D is basically a HAL), but overall[17:07:46] <exDM69_> so this "directx frontend in userspace" statement is bollocks[17:07:48] <davve> HAL?[17:07:53] <DarkUranium> hardware abstraction layer[17:08:08] <zid> emulation what[17:08:18] <spear2> is "void mainImage (...)" a GLSL ES thing?[17:08:40] <DarkUranium> never heard of mainImage[17:08:54] <DarkUranium> a quick google search gives me ShaderToy[17:09:08] <exDM69_> spear2: where did you see that? are you sure it's not just a part of a bigger shader (where main() is elsewhere)[17:09:24] <DarkUranium> exDM69_, it would appear that ShaderToy has `mainImage` as the entry point[17:09:28] <DarkUranium> instead of `main`, for some reason.[17:09:36] <DarkUranium> I assume because it can also procedurally generate audio[17:09:39] <spear2> exDM69: probably, it's https://www.shadertoy.com/[17:10:06] <exDM69_> davve: d3d "driver" is half implemented by microsoft and half by gpu vendor[17:11:00] <exDM69_> davve: so when glFooBar is implemented by vendor, D3DFooBar is implemented by MS and calls into the vendor's driver with a different "HAL" API[17:11:19] *** _gr3g_2 <_gr3g_2!~greg@pool-72-80-159-17.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[17:11:44] <DarkUranium> exDM69_, might've been nice if GL did that, too. But then we probably wouldn't have had all of these bleeding edge extensions in GL[17:12:04] <chrisf> exDM69_: and then half the work the vendor side does is unpicking crazy assumptions the MS code forced on you :P[17:12:21] <DarkUranium> I guess it might be doable now, with Vulkan around (namely: by using Vulkan as the GL<->vendor interface)[17:12:22] <exDM69_> chrisf: good thing I'm not a d3d driver engineer[17:12:41] <chrisf> *ahem*, d3d shader bytecode.[17:12:44] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7mo56rkk6i6rq5.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[17:13:07] *** _gr3g_2 <_gr3g_2!~greg@pool-72-80-159-17.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined ##OpenGL[17:13:30] <chrisf> DarkUranium: possible, but it's harder than it looks to layer gl over vk[17:13:32] <exDM69_> DarkUranium: vulkan is a really big improvement, although the loader is not quite the same as the d3d common part[17:13:44] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7mo56rkk6i6rq5.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined ##OpenGL[17:14:03] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7mo56rkk6i6rq5.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[17:14:10] *** neuro_sy` <neuro_sy`!~user@185-11-209-162.s1networks.fi> has joined ##OpenGL[17:14:18] <exDM69_> chrisf: DarkUranium: I really hope that someone (I'm looking at the search engine company and their infinite coffers) would write a GL implementation on top of vulkan[17:14:19] <chrisf> DarkUranium: "mostly" solving it is easy enough; being rigorously correct is not.[17:14:26] <exDM69_> or a vulkan backend to angle[17:14:29] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7mo56rkk6i6rq5.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined ##OpenGL[17:14:48] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7mo56rkk6i6rq5.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[17:14:49] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host86-176-242-213.range86-176.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[17:14:50] <DarkUranium> exDM69_, that was my first thought back when I first heard of Vulkan.[17:15:06] <zid> I figured they were just opening up the command queues and essentially letting you do whatever[17:15:14] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7mo56rkk6i6rq5.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined ##OpenGL[17:15:25] <zid> so you could make your own dx or gl or whatever[17:15:36] <zid> rather than using the grotty ass driver implementations[17:15:48] <zid> I haven't really looked at it though[17:15:51] <DarkUranium> chrisf, sure. Though I think, with a few Vulkan extensions here or there (to adjust the impedance mismatch between GL and Vulkan where necessary), you could basically have the D3D enviromment, with vendors doing just Vulkan end[17:15:55] <chrisf> the mapping from vk to hardware isnt always straightforward[17:16:18] <chrisf> (for zid)[17:16:28] <DarkUranium> less performant than direct GL, but OTOH, they could then technically drop e.g. compatibility profiles, and just do those via compat->core->vk translation (or even compat->vk)[17:16:44] <chrisf> just drop compat[17:16:59] <DarkUranium> Compat is important for old programs, so I don't think it's a good idea to outright drop it.[17:17:01] <chrisf> keep legacy[17:17:06] <DarkUranium> ah, that's what you mean[17:17:12] <chrisf> but >= 3.2 compat is batshit[17:17:16] <DarkUranium> it is[17:17:19] <DarkUranium> but I meant 2.1 and 3.0 compat[17:17:26] <DarkUranium> I don't care about 3.1 compat and onwards[17:17:32] *** ejb <ejb!~ejb@unaffiliated/ejb> has joined ##OpenGL[17:17:43] <DarkUranium> (I know 2.1 doesn't have profiles as such --- technically, neither does 3.0)[17:17:45] <chrisf> CTS only enforces core profile behavior[17:17:45] <zid> I'd like to get rid of compat if it let nvidia clean up their driver[17:17:55] <zid> whatever the hell problem they're having with gl in the driver needs to get removed[17:18:08] <DarkUranium> zid, you complain so much about Nvidia, it makes me think you've never tried using OpenGL with AMD.[17:18:13] <DarkUranium> unless the situation has improved with AMD[17:18:31] <zid> DarkUranium: I have not, but I am painfully aware of some shortcomings on the nvidia side that get directly in my way[17:18:33] <chrisf> DarkUranium: it's improved dramatically. you use the open driver, and smile all the way through the day[17:18:41] <chrisf> ;)[17:18:51] <zid> like say, suspending a process with a gl context freezing all my other processes with /any/ graphics context due to held locks[17:19:11] <zid> because it runs the gl through the dx paths after a bit of transmutation for some things[17:19:16] <zid> so it locks both apis[17:19:21] <DarkUranium> chrisf, do I need to take some LSD before using that?[17:19:33] *** neuro_sy` <neuro_sy`!~user@185-11-209-162.s1networks.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[17:19:37] <DarkUranium> zid, huh. I've never, ever seen that happen.[17:19:43] <zid> SndVol.exe goes completely black if I debug this game[17:19:55] <DarkUranium> and no, it doesn't run gl through dx paths[17:20:03] <DarkUranium> have you been buying to the Microsoft FUD back from 2007 or so?[17:20:12] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7mo56rkk6i6rq5.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[17:20:19] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[17:20:27] <zid> Again, that's what I was told, the opengl paths are a shit load of hacks in the driver to just barely work if possible[17:20:37] <DarkUranium> (apparently, it was 2005, not 2007)[17:20:39] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7mo56rkk6i6rq5.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined ##OpenGL[17:20:40] <chrisf> both dx and gl bottom out in the same low level driver bits, and yes there are mad sync bugs in there.[17:20:42] <zid> and to fix it they'd have to properly sidebyside them and they can't be bothered[17:21:02] <zid> so the gl just sits lopsidedly on top of both the hw and the dx-inspired 'core' of the driver[17:21:18] <zid> which can hold locks, so can also stop dx working[17:21:52] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has joined ##OpenGL[17:22:26] <exDM69_> zid: you do realize you're in a chat room half full of driver engineers[17:22:50] <zid> probably[17:23:18] <DarkUranium> exDM69_, I think he's stuck with the 2005 FUD by Microsoft, w.r.t. Vista running GL via D3D.[17:23:35] <exDM69_> of course there must be a common component in d3d and gl drivers[17:23:43] <exDM69_> otherwise the two couldn't coexist at the same time[17:23:51] *** xerpi <xerpi!~xerpi@4.red-83-45-194.dynamicip.rima-tde.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[17:23:52] <zid> Right, but it isn't as "common" as you might imagine[17:23:58] <zid> it's more "do what dx wants" and "gl uses it anyway"[17:24:24] <exDM69_> zid: actually, a lot of this stuff is mandated by microsoft[17:24:29] <zid> lame[17:25:01] <zid> I'm certain they could do a better job than they're doing though, but I've only heard 3rd hand how insane the actual code is[17:25:05] <DarkUranium> also, don't confuse some naming differences with conceptual ones[17:25:12] <DarkUranium> e.g. D3D pixel shader vs GL fragment shader[17:25:27] <DarkUranium> just because NVIDIA calls it "pixel shader" (which they probably do) doesn't mean it doesn't match GL fragment shaders perfectly[17:25:37] <zid> but I know how it acts in practice wrt debugging and stuff[17:25:40] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[17:25:46] <zid> so I feel entitled to complain[17:26:14] *** xissburg <xissburg!~xissburg@unaffiliated/xissburg> has joined ##OpenGL[17:26:18] <zid> also vsync is just massively broken which is nice[17:27:06] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has joined ##OpenGL[17:27:43] <zid> I have special hacks in this game to deal with nvidia's shitty vsync and I still can't get it working right all the time[17:28:12] *** echotangoecho <echotangoecho!~echotango@92-108-127-60.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal)[17:28:32] *** geo5 <geo5!~geo5@2601:601:1800:53a4:d942:4162:13a:aa25> has joined ##OpenGL[17:28:54] <zid> also fun: It confusedly applying the red alert 2 set of shims to my process at one point because they happened to both be called game.exe was fun[17:29:57] <DarkUranium> are you running fullscreen?[17:30:06] *** _gr3g_2 <_gr3g_2!~greg@pool-72-80-159-17.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[17:30:12] <zid> sometimes yes sometimes no[17:30:15] *** Matthijs <Matthijs!~quassel@unaffiliated/matthijs> has quit IRC (Quit: *waves frantically*)[17:30:28] <DarkUranium> because windowed mode makes vsync not really work[17:30:37] <DarkUranium> that's a Windows thing (specifically, its compositor), not an NVIDIA one.[17:30:44] <zid> I don't care about tearing[17:30:49] <zid> I care about it running at 68fps[17:30:51] <DarkUranium> I'm not talking about tearing.[17:31:05] <DarkUranium> it'll typically enforce vsync in windowed[17:31:13] <DarkUranium> because it has to be synced up with the rest of the compositor's stuff[17:31:15] <zid> on two 60hz monitors, with it on precisely one monitor, not overlapping, so it isn't getting double vsync signals or anything[17:31:23] <zid> 68Hz vsync[17:31:28] <DarkUranium> seriously, if you're gonna complain, pleast at least know what you're talking about first[17:31:33] <zid> what[17:31:37] *** Asu <Asu!~sdelang@AMarseille-658-1-119-62.w86-219.abo.wanadoo.fr> has joined ##OpenGL[17:31:39] <zid> vsync should get me 60hz, not 68[17:32:14] <zid> plus, their 'wait for vblank' system is: while(1);[17:32:47] <zid> which causes windows to change the scheduling class of the process[17:33:10] <zid> "Oh yea, this is clearly just prime95, latency doesn't matter"[17:33:47] <zid> The hw this was designed is a radeon and it runs fine, no 100% cpu load, no wrong framerates[17:34:12] <DarkUranium> how do you know it's 68Hz?[17:34:29] <zid> because it runs 68/60ths of realtime[17:34:44] <zid> I've also had 75, and once 121[17:34:51] <DarkUranium> yes, because your program isn't syncing[17:34:54] <DarkUranium> but Windows is syncing *for* you.[17:35:08] <DarkUranium> Windows 8 & 10 enforce triple-buffering for windowed.[17:35:09] *** upgrdman <upgrdman!~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[17:35:13] <zid> vsync is enabled in the code, and forced on in the driver, and I am not running 8 or 1[17:35:14] <zid> 10[17:35:23] <DarkUranium> what are you running?[17:35:28] <zid> xp and 7 with aero off[17:35:33] <zid> and 7 with aero on[17:35:43] <DarkUranium> 7 still uses double-buffering for windowed[17:35:47] <DarkUranium> I've no idea what XP does.[17:36:01] <DarkUranium> and I've never seen the problems you are talking about, so.[17:36:21] <zid> You need multiple monitors connected and to be using opengl and modern nvidia drivers, afaik[17:36:24] *** kasper_ <kasper_!~safaf@82.137.11.65> has quit IRC ()[17:36:43] <zid> You can actually 'fix' it by making the window span both monitors, the driver is conflating the sync from the first device with the sync on all devices or something[17:36:44] *** kasper^ <kasper^!~safaf@82.137.11.65> has joined ##OpenGL[17:37:26] <zid> I can make it run 60hz and not-60hz by moving it a few pixels left or right while spanning monitors, it'd be funny if it weren't sad[17:37:27] <exDM69_> there has been massive improvements to gpu driver parts (mostly from microsoft) since windows 7[17:37:52] <chrisf> 7's a mess[17:38:07] <zid> What's input lag like on those forced compositor modern windows setups?[17:38:09] <DarkUranium> chrisf, doesn't that apply to every version?[17:38:11] <zid> in a window, that is[17:38:17] <chrisf> DarkUranium: it's true[17:38:32] <DarkUranium> chrisf, of the lot, I feel like 7 is the *least* of a mess.[17:38:47] <zid> aero definitely adds input lag on 7 for windows (fullscreen is fine, as you'd hope and expect)[17:38:50] <DarkUranium> (which doesn't mean it isn't such!)[17:38:56] <chrisf> the 10 graphics stack is saner[17:39:07] <chrisf> the rest of 10.... ehhhhhh[17:39:17] <zid> I'll switch to 10 when 7 literally stops working[17:42:30] <chrisf> at the bottom of the stack, wddm2 is dramatically less screwed up than 1.x[17:44:38] *** MyNickname__ <MyNickname__!~default@2604:5500:c116:3c00:1d1c:e47b:7d2e:eaf5> has joined ##OpenGL[17:46:15] *** _gr3g_2 <_gr3g_2!~greg@pool-72-80-159-17.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined ##OpenGL[17:49:27] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[17:51:44] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has joined ##OpenGL[17:57:12] *** tambry <tambry!~tambre@fd2b-8793-6fe7-61d7-ab80-8a0a-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[17:58:00] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[18:00:53] <davve> what's it like working as an asset pipe programmer?[18:01:05] <davve> I am dreaming of making a career switch from doing enterprise web dev[18:01:21] <davve> s/dream/think/[18:01:31] *** Murii <Murii!~Murii@79.113.205.114> has joined ##OpenGL[18:01:47] <bellbreaker> Sounds like your job would be trying to fit square pegs into round holes[18:01:50] <davve> seems like it would be nice staying out of the actual development and just assisting artits/prograzmmers[18:02:06] <zid> I spent 2 days on it recently, it was not fun[18:02:46] <davve> I imagine it involves parsing different formats to some custom engine one[18:02:58] <davve> writing plugins for some editors and such?[18:03:01] <davve> automating it[18:04:01] <exDM69_> davve: did you find an interesting job offer?[18:04:15] <exDM69_> davve: yeah, it's going to be a lot of automation tasks probably[18:04:17] <davve> not an offer but avalanche studios only 500 meters from me are hiring[18:04:23] *** upgrdman <upgrdman!~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman> has joined ##OpenGL[18:05:05] <exDM69_> I imagine it involves doing stuff like configuring jenkins (or whatever) to compress textures, etc and pack them into a format the engine understands[18:05:10] *** soulz <soulz!~soulz@unaffiliated/soulz> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[18:05:22] *** bellbreaker <bellbreaker!~husker@77.11.150.83.ftth.as8758.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[18:05:35] <davve> I'd think so too[18:06:08] <davve> oh no the ad has been taken down :([18:07:02] <davve> the irony how they are looking for a full stack developer to do marketing sites and analytics now[18:07:17] <davve> kind of what I am trying to get away from[18:08:27] <davve> doesn't look half bad actually, and I have the relevant experience[18:12:07] <_gr3g_2> hi, after a few days i got assimp sample program to work, it was great moment[18:12:11] <_gr3g_2> for me[18:12:23] <_gr3g_2> now i need to learn how it works[18:13:28] <_gr3g_2> for some reason my xcode was not able to use the typedefs that were built into the assimp sample program so i had to remove them[18:14:09] *** stefkos <stefkos!~Pawel@82.177.144.226> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[18:16:00] <_gr3g_2> davve you are looking for a job? i am as well[18:17:48] <davve> i have one currently but the only thing keeping me there is I like the people working[18:18:05] <davve> there[18:18:28] *** krystcich <krystcich!~krystcich@178235146020.dynamic-zab-01.vectranet.pl> has joined ##OpenGL[18:18:28] <davve> would really like to work with graphics/gamedev somehow but I don't know if I have the chops[18:19:28] <davve> but i know that i'd probably learn a lot of stuff way more useful than what I am doing now[18:19:28] <_gr3g_2> yeah, me neither, not yet at least, maybe in a few years i'll see[18:19:50] <_gr3g_2> you'd be interested in using opengl?[18:19:57] *** soulz <soulz!~soulz@unaffiliated/soulz> has joined ##OpenGL[18:20:01] <_gr3g_2> for work[18:26:18] <davve> yes[18:31:15] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-68-175.internetia.net.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[18:32:41] *** raynold <raynold!uid201163@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vmyfvvlswpixfjdr> has joined ##OpenGL[18:34:28] *** neuro_sy` <neuro_sy`!~user@185-11-209-162.s1networks.fi> has joined ##OpenGL[18:39:21] *** neuro_sy` 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ZZZzzz…)[19:18:02] *** ratchet_freak <ratchet_freak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7mzgy0p2f49u7u.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined ##OpenGL[19:20:16] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7mo56rkk6i6rq5.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[19:20:40] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7mo56rkk6i6rq5.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined ##OpenGL[19:21:21] *** ville <ville!~ville@37-33-18-113.bb.dnainternet.fi> has joined ##OpenGL[19:21:28] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[19:21:32] *** StuartW <StuartW!~stuart@cpc1-heme13-2-0-cust480.9-1.cable.virginm.net> has joined ##OpenGL[19:28:15] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has joined ##OpenGL[19:29:38] <geo5> #version 430 corresponds to opengl 4.3 right? what #version of opengl does opengl es3 go upto?[19:30:51] <geo5> oh nvm, i see #300[19:31:47] <karalaine> "#300 es" to be specific[19:32:33] <geo5> ok[19:33:12] *** ratchet_freak <ratchet_freak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7mzgy0p2f49u7u.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[19:33:40] *** ratchet_freak <ratchet_freak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7mzgy0p2f49u7u.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined ##OpenGL[19:36:15] *** KAHR-Alpha <KAHR-Alpha!~Alpha@LFbn-REI-1-167-64.w86-225.abo.wanadoo.fr> has joined ##OpenGL[19:41:02] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[19:42:00] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7mo56rkk6i6rq5.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[19:42:45] *** ratchet_freak <ratchet_freak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7mzgy0p2f49u7u.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[19:43:11] *** ratchet_freak <ratchet_freak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7mzgy0p2f49u7u.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined ##OpenGL[19:45:31] *** Orion] <Orion]!~H0i@unaffiliated/orion/x-3970838> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[19:46:31] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host86-176-242-213.range86-176.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##OpenGL[19:53:06] *** discopatrick <discopatrick!uid138124@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vuyzmlpyeqxrvswl> has joined ##OpenGL[19:53:23] *** discopatrick <discopatrick!uid138124@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vuyzmlpyeqxrvswl> has quit IRC (Excess Flood)[19:53:33] *** PaulCape_ <PaulCape_!~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-50.dc.dc.cox.net> has joined ##OpenGL[19:53:33] *** Lucretia <Lucretia!~laguest@pdpc/supporter/active/lucretia> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[19:54:11] *** discopatrick <discopatrick!uid138124@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vtwmxvktvymmlqla> has joined ##OpenGL[19:54:35] *** PaulCapestany <PaulCapestany!~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-50.dc.dc.cox.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[19:57:07] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has joined ##OpenGL[19:57:10] *** Lucretia <Lucretia!~laguest@pdpc/supporter/active/lucretia> has joined ##OpenGL[20:01:28] *** Chanterelle <Chanterelle!~chanterel@104.131.69.59> has quit IRC (Quit: have a nice day =^.^=)[20:03:07] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[20:03:54] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host86-176-242-213.range86-176.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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GLUT is a relic from the 90s[22:03:56] <korans> Okay[22:04:10] <zid> Games lor findows wive[22:06:56] *** chat_ <chat_!~chat@p54B2F157.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[22:10:19] <mangelis> what's the benefit of using sampler objects in opengl?[22:11:23] *** chat <chat!~chat@p54B2F157.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined ##OpenGL[22:11:48] *** chat is now known as Guest64380[22:12:21] <chrisf> mangelis: not having to spray your sampler parameters everywhere.[22:12:41] <chrisf> there's usually not many configurations you want[22:12:55] <mangelis> but no speed benefit?[22:13:22] *** flavi0 <flavi0!~anon@unaffiliated/flavi0> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[22:13:26] <mangelis> i think it's a design mistake in opengl that you can't specify sampler objects in shader code[22:14:04] <zid> Sorry, what's a sampler object?[22:14:27] <mangelis> https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki/Sampler_Object[22:14:38] <zid> I was browsing it[22:14:43] <zid> but I'm not sure I understood it[22:14:59] <zid> I can see how to use it but I have no idea what it.. does[22:15:03] <mangelis> so instead of binding textures to pipeline, you instead bind sampler (which describes filtering, clamping etc) and texture separately[22:16:53] <mangelis> in dx11/dx12 one can create variety of samplers, and use them in shaders to sample textures. in opengl you have to bind both samplers and textures outside of shader and i was wondering what's the benefit of that[22:17:55] *** Neomex <Neomex!~quassel@net-37-117-5-106.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has joined ##OpenGL[22:18:48] *** _gr3g_2 <_gr3g_2!~greg@pool-72-80-159-17.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:19:12] <zid> So it's more or less a way to package the GL_NEAREST_* etc stuff along with a texture, rather than having to mess around with them seperately?[22:20:42] <zid> looks like you bind them to the texture units, so probably you could do precisely 0 fiddling with the api if you always used the same sampling parameters inbetween draw calls?[22:20:44] <zid> seems nice[22:20:52] *** immibis <immibis!~chatzilla@222-155-160-32.jetstream.xtra.co.nz> has joined ##OpenGL[22:20:58] <zid> I'll probably give it a proper look soon[22:21:38] <mangelis> well no, you set sampler object that packages those, and then you bind that and texture into the texture unit[22:21:56] <zid> Is that different to what I said?[22:22:07] <mangelis> you said "along with a texture" :-)[22:22:12] <zid> ah yea[22:22:20] <zid> I meant.. alongside, more than along..with[22:22:29] <zid> idk, sentences are hard[22:22:37] <mangelis> but yeah, if you need to use same texture with different parameters in different drawcalls, then you only need bind different sampler[22:22:56] <zid> I was thinking more the opposite, using the same sampler for all your texturing[22:23:11] <zid> put that sampler onto all the units and never have to do glTextureparametercrap again?[22:23:33] <mangelis> yeah you can do that[22:25:12] *** Elysion <Elysion!~Elysion@118.211.15.153> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[22:26:33] <mangelis> but in dx11, it's super nice. you bind all your samplers and all your textures like uniforms (well of course only those which are actually needed by the shader), and then you can use them like textureWall.Sample(samplerNearest, uv);[22:27:06] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[22:27:14] <zid> I tried to get DX11 working, I got as far as opening 20 msdn tabs before I decided fuck it this is too much effort just to get a black window[22:27:35] <zid> I had to make a DGIXFactory to make a FactoryAdapter3 to get access to..[22:27:39] <zid> didn't even get to the dx parts :P[22:28:24] <DarkUranium> lol[22:31:23] <mangelis> :)[22:32:17] *** immibis <immibis!~chatzilla@222-155-160-32.jetstream.xtra.co.nz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[22:34:03] *** _gr3g_2 <_gr3g_2!~greg@pool-72-80-159-17.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined ##OpenGL[22:36:00] *** kasper^ <kasper^!~safaf@82.137.11.65> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[22:36:27] *** Kingsquee <Kingsquee!~kingsquee@d108-180-237-219.bchsia.telus.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[22:37:24] *** kasper^ <kasper^!~safaf@82.137.11.65> has joined ##OpenGL[22:38:09] *** Kingsquee <Kingsquee!~kingsquee@d108-180-237-219.bchsia.telus.net> has joined ##OpenGL[22:38:09] *** ImQ009 <ImQ009!~ImQ009@unaffiliated/imq009> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[22:38:40] *** jdashg <jdashg!~jdashg@corp-nat.fw1.untrust.mtv2.mozilla.net> has joined ##OpenGL[22:40:04] *** RajRajRaj <RajRajRaj!uid72176@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bqicbmtckurpnchx> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[22:43:55] <zid> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/mt679495%28v=vs.85%29.aspx[22:44:07] <zid> Thanks microsoft this api is amazing[22:50:15] <chrisf> what exactly are you complaining about? it inherits from 4 earlier interfaces.[22:50:28] *** Waynes <Waynes!~Waynes@23.94.61.168> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[22:54:00] <chrisf> mangelis: come to the vulkan side. we do separate samplers like dx too.[22:54:44] <DarkUranium> chrisf, but do you have cookies?[22:55:19] <chrisf> cookies with predictable performance[22:55:40] <chrisf> i guarantee i will not recook the cookie as you try to eat it[22:56:16] <chrisf> (this guarantee is achieved by having you specify all your expectations about the cookie upfront, and then making you cook it)[22:56:27] <Stragus> Each texture being a sampler itself is rarely a problem in practice, it's very rare that you need to switch sampling mode for the same data continuously[22:56:44] *** threenuc <threenuc!~threenuc@88.156.163.16> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[22:57:02] <chrisf> max anisotropy control is a damned nuisance without sampler objects[22:58:48] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host86-176-242-213.range86-176.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##OpenGL[22:59:48] <Stragus> You would sample the same texture with different maximum anisotropy in the same frame?[23:00:02] <chrisf> Stragus: not likely[23:00:13] <Stragus> So it's not really a nuisance[23:00:34] <chrisf> Stragus: but having the settings bottom out as "now fix all the texture objects" isnt great[23:01:25] *** threenuc <threenuc!~threenuc@88.156.163.16> has joined ##OpenGL[23:02:03] <Stragus> Right, it isn't "great" but it's not really a problem either[23:04:57] *** Asu` <Asu`!~sdelang@92.184.96.153> has joined ##OpenGL[23:08:23] *** Asu <Asu!~sdelang@AMarseille-658-1-119-62.w86-219.abo.wanadoo.fr> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[23:11:18] <derhass> at least anisotropy is in the standard now[23:12:56] *** Albori <Albori!~Albori@64-251-148-158.fidnet.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[23:13:33] *** acksys_ <acksys_!~fritz@mail12.shutterfly.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[23:15:12] *** acksys_ <acksys_!~fritz@mail12.shutterfly.com> has joined ##OpenGL[23:20:38] *** krystcich <krystcich!~krystcich@178235146020.dynamic-zab-01.vectranet.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))[23:22:56] *** stefkos <stefkos!~Pawel@pc11-226.chomiczowka.waw.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[23:26:37] *** Albori <Albori!~Albori@64-251-148-158.fidnet.com> has joined ##OpenGL[23:27:05] *** Murii <Murii!~Murii@79.113.205.114> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[23:38:08] <mangelis> chrisf: i was planning to, but then i realized that opengl has compute shaders too (and much simpler everything)[23:38:59] <mangelis> create tool like PIX for vulkan (that works on linux too) and I'll be there in a blink of an eye[23:39:24] <chrisf> rdoc is pretty good and pix-like[23:39:30] <DarkUranium> what's PIX?[23:39:44] <chrisf> DarkUranium: MS graphics debugger[23:39:54] <DarkUranium> ah[23:40:01] <mangelis> rdoc is good but nowhere near pix[23:40:18] <DarkUranium> Uh, question. I remember someone saying that this: https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glslang ... was missing some important features found in modern GLSL. Or some important extensions, can't quite recall what.[23:40:21] <chrisf> its vulkan support is rather good[23:40:28] <mangelis> pix shows stuff like individual shader threads and their occupancy in multiprocessors[23:40:30] <DarkUranium> Can anyone help me remember? (I'm trying to find a good GLSL frontend/parser thingie)[23:40:51] <DarkUranium> mangelis, oh, nice[23:40:54] <chrisf> DarkUranium: it's complete enough that it's used for glsl->spirv.[23:41:01] <DarkUranium> chrisf, oh. Huh.[23:41:17] <mangelis> (not sure if windows version does that though, i've only used the xbox one)[23:41:20] <chrisf> DarkUranium: if you run into something that's not implemented, file bugs.[23:41:35] <DarkUranium> well, wasn't me who used it, I'm afraid[23:41:45] <chrisf> DarkUranium: your other option is to grab the mesa glsl frontend[23:41:53] <DarkUranium> what's the license on that one?[23:42:07] <DarkUranium> hell, what's the license on the Khronos one, for that matter?[23:42:14] <DarkUranium> (there's no COPYING or LICENSE file there)[23:42:23] <chrisf> mesa is MIT[23:42:29] <DarkUranium> oh, I thought it'd be GPL[23:42:30] <DarkUranium> huh.[23:42:32] <DarkUranium> MIT is perfect![23:43:04] *** Asu` <Asu`!~sdelang@92.184.96.153> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)[23:43:21] <DarkUranium> I'm starting to think I might be better off making my own shading language earlier than planned, though (since it doesn't *have* to be GLSL; GLSL was just a convenient option, due to the parsers I could find floating about)[23:43:59] <mangelis> personally i think HLSL is better language than GLSL[23:44:06] <chrisf> DarkUranium: glslang is 3-clause BSD.[23:44:21] <DarkUranium> chrisf, I'm avoiding any and all code made by graphitemaster. $REASONS.[23:44:34] <DarkUranium> oh wait, I thought you meant the other one[23:44:34] <DarkUranium> nevermindf[23:44:38] <chrisf> DarkUranium: your feud is not my problem.[23:44:40] <DarkUranium> you're talking about the Khronos one[23:44:57] <DarkUranium> it's not so much a feud, as much as it is that the response to just about anything (bug reports included) is "fuck off"[23:45:00] <mangelis> all that float, float2, float3, automatically expanding float->float3 when needed etc. is so damn nice[23:45:16] <DarkUranium> mangelis, I prefer to manually expand that.[23:45:20] <DarkUranium> and GLSL has float/float2/float3[23:45:24] <DarkUranium> it's called float/vec2/vec3[23:45:31] <mangelis> yes, exactly. :-)[23:46:07] <chrisf> if you insist on hlsl there are pretty good hlsl->spirv options now.[23:46:22] <DarkUranium> My target is not SPIR-V. Not necessarily, at any rate.[23:46:58] <chrisf> my personal opinion is that hlsl has more than its share of batshit[23:47:50] <mangelis> not be able to write float2(2.0, 3.0) is annoying in hlsl at least[23:47:59] <mangelis> i'm sure there's other things as well[23:48:30] *** Quetzal2 <Quetzal2!~Quetzal2@unaffiliated/quetzal2> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[23:48:31] <DarkUranium> mangelis, how *are* you supposed to write that in HLSL?[23:48:35] * DarkUranium hasn't used much of it.[23:48:50] <mangelis> oops, i mean float2(2.0)[23:49:24] <DarkUranium> I thought you said it automatically expanded float->float3?[23:49:32] <mangelis> in glsl you do vec2(2.0), in hlsl it's just 2.0[23:49:51] <DarkUranium> as I said, I prefer the former anyhow[23:49:55] <DarkUranium> and you only really need to do that in some cases[23:50:02] <DarkUranium> e.g. +-*/ work just fine with 2.0 alone[23:50:13] <DarkUranium> like `foo.xy - 2.0`[23:50:16] <mangelis> by the spec?[23:50:22] <DarkUranium> yes[23:50:29] <mangelis> cool, i remember that some glsl compiler didn't accept that[23:50:41] *** echotangoecho <echotangoecho!~echotango@92-108-127-60.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl> has joined ##OpenGL[23:50:46] *** Sindriava <Sindriava!~textual@94.230.153.70> has joined ##OpenGL[23:51:55] <DarkUranium> mangelis, https://www.khronos.org/registry/OpenGL/specs/gl/GLSLangSpec.3.30.pdf 5.9[23:52:02] <DarkUranium> "One operand is a scalar, and the other is a vector or matrix. In this case, the scalar operation is[23:52:02] <DarkUranium> applied independently to each component of the vector or matrix, resulting in the same size vector[23:52:02] <DarkUranium> or matrix"[23:52:10] <DarkUranium> it talks about +-*/[23:52:34] <mangelis> nice[23:52:37] <chrisf> "vantage number two!" said the bi-colored-python-rock-snake. "you couldn't have done that with your It Is Whatever Microsoft Implements language[23:52:38] <DarkUranium> AMD used to not follow the spec here, though[23:52:55] <DarkUranium> chrisf, huh[23:53:11] <chrisf> (having a precise spec to consult)[23:53:12] <mangelis> aah, i thought it was nvidia not following the spec with their cg-derived compiler[23:53:24] <DarkUranium> cg is HLSL-based, not GLSL-based[23:53:28] <DarkUranium> ... or was.[23:53:38] <DarkUranium> mangelis, in the specific '*' case, that's even mathematically defined, you know. That is, vecN * scalar[23:53:39] <mangelis> but afaik nvidias glsl compiler is based on their cg compiler[23:53:43] <DarkUranium> possibly.[23:54:08] <chrisf> mangelis: this is true, and it's visible in some really weird ways from time to time :)[23:54:31] <chrisf> error messages that cite things that arent even close to existing in GLSL :)[23:54:58] <mangelis> at some point lots of demos were broken because people mostly used nvidia-syntax and then amd users released patched shaders to make them run on amd :)[23:55:32] <chrisf> desktop gl implementations arent /required/ to reject every nonsense shader.[23:55:59] <mangelis> right[23:56:00] <DarkUranium> chrisf, in the specific case of AMD, though, it was fully compliant code being rejected[23:56:09] <DarkUranium> (namely, the vecN <op> scalar case)[23:56:13] <chrisf> right[23:56:25] <DarkUranium> was back a few years ago, though, I'm sure that's been fixed by now.[23:56:29] <mangelis> amd has also fixed their compiler to work similarly to nvidia in 2016[23:57:38] <DarkUranium> chrisf, just in case you're curious, I want a custom SL because I want my code to run both on GPU and CPU. But I want to avoid OpenCL because it's very, very heavy and not as ubiquitously available as GL + GLES[23:57:52] <DarkUranium> (plus a few other requirements that are irrelevant ATM)[23:58:46] <mangelis> DarkUranium: check out the Scopes language by Paniq: https://bitbucket.org/duangle/scopes/wiki/Home[23:58:56] <DarkUranium> will do.[23:58:58] <mangelis> that should run on both cpu and gpu[23:59:13] *** ville <ville!~ville@37-33-18-113.bb.dnainternet.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[23:59:22] <DarkUranium> FWIW, my plan was to compile to GLSL for GPU (I would've done SPIR-V, but OpenGL ES ...), and QBE for CPU[23:59:48] <DarkUranium> seems very heavy, though[23:59:49] <chrisf> DarkUranium: i think you've mentioned this before.[23:59:52] <DarkUranium> chrisf, I have.