February 12, 2018 
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February 12, 2018 [00:03:40] *** DrBenway <DrBenway!~DrBenway@modemcable080.164-57-74.mc.videotron.ca> has joined ##OpenGL[00:03:53] *** ZeroWalker <ZeroWalker!~Zerowalke@78-67-154-24-no268.tbcn.telia.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[00:05:50] *** DrBenway <DrBenway!~DrBenway@modemcable080.164-57-74.mc.videotron.ca> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:07:50] *** slime <slime!~slime73@142.134.95.169> has joined ##OpenGL[00:09:57] *** DrBenway <DrBenway!~DrBenway@modemcable080.164-57-74.mc.videotron.ca> has joined ##OpenGL[00:10:23] *** seangrove <seangrove!~user@136.24.198.70> has joined ##OpenGL[00:10:31] *** panda8146 <panda8146!32009561@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.50.0.149.97> has joined ##OpenGL[00:12:10] *** DrBenway <DrBenway!~DrBenway@modemcable080.164-57-74.mc.videotron.ca> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:12:19] *** Kingsquee <Kingsquee!~kingsquee@d108-180-237-219.bchsia.telus.net> has joined ##OpenGL[00:19:58] *** DrBenway <DrBenway!~DrBenway@modemcable080.164-57-74.mc.videotron.ca> has joined ##OpenGL[00:20:12] *** needs1 <needs1!~needs@86.160.9.93.rev.sfr.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[00:21:57] *** DrBenway <DrBenway!~DrBenway@modemcable080.164-57-74.mc.videotron.ca> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:23:57] *** DrBenway <DrBenway!~DrBenway@modemcable080.164-57-74.mc.videotron.ca> has joined ##OpenGL[00:24:09] *** ville <ville!~ville@37-136-79-8.rev.dnainternet.fi> has joined ##OpenGL[00:25:25] *** ZeroWalker <ZeroWalker!~Zerowalke@78-67-154-24-no268.tbcn.telia.com> has joined ##OpenGL[00:25:41] *** DrBenway <DrBenway!~DrBenway@modemcable080.164-57-74.mc.videotron.ca> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:30:07] <panda8146> hi is there way to make dFdx instruction unaffected by perspectives?[00:30:44] <derhass> panda8146: not sure what you mean[00:31:07] <derhass> panda8146: you can apply them to data derived only from noperspective varings[00:34:23] <panda8146> derhass: For example, if I have a rectangle texture mapped, this rect should have constant du if in the rect's local space. But if I do dFdx( uv.x), I think it's applied in perspective space, and I don't get a constant du anymore[00:35:39] <derhass> that's the whole point of perspective-corrected interpolation[00:36:49] <panda8146> derhass: I remember there were tricks like divide by gl_FragCoord.w. Wonder if it can be used somehow[00:37:18] <derhass> and no, it should not by constant in object space, since the pixels are not equal-sized in object space, unless the rect is parallel to the image plane[00:37:43] <derhass> well, you can un-do the perspective correction in various ways[00:37:53] <derhass> but the question is: what are you trying to do[00:39:11] *** Simonious <Simonious!~simonious@h69-21-230-45.mntimn.dedicated.static.tds.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[00:40:00] *** torgdor <torgdor!~weechat@cpe-104-32-77-28.socal.res.rr.com> has joined ##OpenGL[00:40:30] <derhass> and no, dFdx will _not_ be constant across the whole rectanle if you do this on not-perspective-corrected texcoords. it will be constant across each triangler, but have an ugly jump between the two[00:41:14] *** Simonious <Simonious!~simonious@68-113-148-6.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com> has joined ##OpenGL[00:42:41] <derhass> so I wonder what you're even after[00:44:00] <panda8146> derhass: I have quad walls of various sizes. Each quad wall is mapped a brick texture. Due to the sizes of the quad, the brick texture gets stretched large or small. I'm trying to unstretch the texture ini FS by finding the rate of change of the uv in respect to the size of the geometry[00:44:26] <panda8146> *in FS[00:45:34] <derhass> I don't get it[00:45:57] <derhass> fix your texcoords per vertex if you want to have the same brick size in object space[00:46:22] <derhass> screen space dericatives aren't going to help you with this[00:46:47] <derhass> *derivatives[00:48:16] *** delicado <delicado!~delicado@110.54.203.22> has quit IRC ()[00:48:35] <panda8146> I was hoping not to change the texcoords per vertex as I dont control the construction of the texture coords and geometry[00:50:04] <derhass> well, what you want to do can't be done that way[00:51:24] <derhass> what you want to do requires _other_ information, namely the object space size of the quad[00:51:57] <derhass> and trying to do it in a FS is completely besides the point[00:52:14] *** Gama11 <Gama11!~quassel@p50902CF7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[00:52:22] <panda8146> Good to know it's a dead end. Yea it only works if I change the camera to orthographic[00:53:27] <derhass> how does it work there?[00:53:50] <derhass> if the rect is not parallel to the image plane, you still get the wrong value[00:54:04] <derhass> just consistenyly across the whol quad now[00:54:32] <panda8146> I'm doing the dFdx on perspective correct uvs even though the camera is orthographic[00:54:46] <derhass> panda8146: I get that, but that's not the issue[00:55:11] <derhass> that way, you will get constant brick size in screen space, not in object space[00:55:32] <derhass> if the rect is not parallel to the image plane, your bricks will be shortened or stretched on the object now[00:56:55] <derhass> well, or maybe not[00:57:08] <derhass> I don't know what exactly you're calculating[00:59:32] <panda8146> oh well I'm abandoning the shader approach anyways[01:00:01] *** atk <atk!Arch-TK@ircpuzzles/staff/Arch-TK> has quit IRC (Quit: Well this is unexpected.)[01:00:05] <derhass> you can do it in a geometry shader[01:00:16] *** atk <atk!~Arch-TK@ircpuzzles/staff/Arch-TK> has joined ##OpenGL[01:00:22] <derhass> or in a VS if you can add some extra attributes[01:01:08] *** xerpi <xerpi!~xerpi@160.red-83-45-199.dynamicip.rima-tde.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[01:05:16] <zid> derhass: I'm struggling to find anything that lists precisely what a vao can 'remember', just handwavy stuff suggesting it maybe does some binding for you?[01:06:09] <derhass> zid: well, there is something which lists exactly that[01:06:14] <derhass> zid: the state tables in the spec[01:06:42] <zid> aha, pefect, I have no idea where that is but I'll try go find it[01:07:14] <derhass> look into the channel topic[01:10:25] *** lucaswang <lucaswang!~lucaswang@180.159.204.153> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[01:10:59] *** lucaswang <lucaswang!~lucaswang@180.159.204.153> has joined ##OpenGL[01:15:21] *** lucaswang <lucaswang!~lucaswang@180.159.204.153> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[01:16:08] *** KAHR-Alpha <KAHR-Alpha!~Alpha@2a01cb0d04c905006193dce3f550ab4a.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)[01:17:10] *** l3dx <l3dx!uid2250@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yzmbxkalhlquojul> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[01:17:13] <zid> This looks like it might be it, page 723 on this 4.6 spec I found[01:22:57] *** Simonious <Simonious!~simonious@68-113-148-6.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[01:23:29] *** Birchy <Birchy!~Birchy@178-164-108.52.3p.ntebredband.no> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[01:24:48] *** Simonious <Simonious!~simonious@71-8-145-61.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com> has joined ##OpenGL[01:29:18] *** Keniyal <Keniyal!~Keniyal@unaffiliated/keniyal> has joined ##OpenGL[01:32:57] *** seangrove <seangrove!~user@136.24.198.70> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[01:33:04] *** seangrove <seangrove!~user@136.24.198.70> has joined ##OpenGL[01:34:49] <ZeroWalker> if i want to draw a texture with different parameters (in my case the scaling), what's a good way to go. It will be in two different shader programs if that plays a role[01:35:14] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host81-153-204-241.range81-153.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…)[02:04:47] *** krychu <krychu!~krychu@136.117.192.178.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined ##OpenGL[02:05:55] *** MrFlibble <MrFlibble!MrFlibble@90.196.204.40> has quit IRC (Quit: MrFlibble)[02:08:15] *** slidercrank <slidercrank!~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[02:09:19] *** krychu <krychu!~krychu@136.117.192.178.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[02:13:12] *** salamanderrake <salamanderrake!~quassel@cpe-24-165-192-204.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[02:16:25] *** salamanderrake <salamanderrake!~quassel@cpe-24-165-192-204.neo.res.rr.com> has joined ##OpenGL[02:20:38] *** Keniyal <Keniyal!~Keniyal@unaffiliated/keniyal> has joined ##OpenGL[02:21:20] *** salamanderrake <salamanderrake!~quassel@cpe-24-165-192-204.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[02:23:44] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7osvi3fldh8skl.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[02:24:04] *** salamanderrake <salamanderrake!~quassel@cpe-24-165-192-204.neo.res.rr.com> has joined ##OpenGL[02:31:13] <zid> Wow I'm doing well tonight, I manage to get heap corruption inside _start[02:32:01] *** DarkUranium <DarkUranium!~DarkUrani@77.38.34.248> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[02:33:32] *** lucaswang <lucaswang!~lucaswang@114.84.215.127> has joined ##OpenGL[02:42:05] *** salamanderrake <salamanderrake!~quassel@cpe-24-165-192-204.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[02:43:14] *** salamanderrake <salamanderrake!~quassel@cpe-24-165-192-204.neo.res.rr.com> has joined ##OpenGL[02:49:10] *** irrenhaus3 <irrenhaus3!~xenon@ip-37-201-7-18.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal)[02:50:36] *** salamanderrake <salamanderrake!~quassel@cpe-24-165-192-204.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)[02:53:48] *** salamanderrake <salamanderrake!~quassel@cpe-24-165-192-204.neo.res.rr.com> has joined ##OpenGL[03:03:30] *** groton <groton!~groton@unaffiliated/groton> has joined ##OpenGL[03:03:31] *** salamanderrake <salamanderrake!~quassel@cpe-24-165-192-204.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[03:03:58] *** Fig1024_ <Fig1024_!~Fig@175.117.3.23> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[03:04:32] *** salamanderrake <salamanderrake!~quassel@cpe-65-189-208-17.neo.res.rr.com> has joined ##OpenGL[03:09:45] *** krychu <krychu!~krychu@136.117.192.178.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined ##OpenGL[03:10:34] *** Croepha <Croepha!~Croepha@unaffiliated/croepha> has quit IRC (Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish...)[03:27:21] *** torgdor <torgdor!~weechat@cpe-104-32-77-28.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1)[03:29:35] *** salamanderrake <salamanderrake!~quassel@cpe-65-189-208-17.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[03:30:36] *** salamanderrake <salamanderrake!~quassel@cpe-24-165-192-204.neo.res.rr.com> has joined ##OpenGL[03:35:25] *** Croepha <Croepha!~Croepha@45.55.252.156> has joined ##OpenGL[03:36:08] <zid> Finally finished fixing my 40 tiny but awful bugs and I'm no longer having terrible crashes and finally have some geometry.. yay.. but it's inside out :P[03:36:49] *** Croepha <Croepha!~Croepha@45.55.252.156> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[03:37:22] *** Croepha <Croepha!~Croepha@45.55.252.156> has joined ##OpenGL[03:38:05] *** salamanderrake <salamanderrake!~quassel@cpe-24-165-192-204.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[03:39:52] *** salamanderrake <salamanderrake!~quassel@cpe-65-189-208-17.neo.res.rr.com> has joined ##OpenGL[03:41:51] *** Fig1024_ <Fig1024_!~Fig@1.209.170.47> has joined ##OpenGL[03:43:17] *** Thorn <Thorn!~Thorn@unaffiliated/thorn> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[03:53:21] *** sacrebleu <sacrebleu!~main@dsl-67-55-0-126.acanac.net> has joined ##OpenGL[03:53:41] <sacrebleu> on the first few frames of my application, the edges of 2d VBOs are drawn with perfect antialiasing[03:53:54] <sacrebleu> however, by frame 5, its lost the anti-aliasing, why is that?[03:55:36] <zid> https://i.imgur.com/osgM2nM.png I broke it :P[03:56:51] <zid> Everything appears to have been averaged to the origin or something >_<[04:01:14] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host81-153-204-241.range81-153.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##OpenGL[04:05:43] <ZeroWalker> textures remind me of banjo & kazooie[04:06:00] <zid> https://i.imgur.com/zO5Ds5m.png I fixed it[04:06:12] <ZeroWalker> oh it's mario 64[04:07:32] *** deepio_ <deepio_!~deepio@dyndsl-080-228-188-119.ewe-ip-backbone.de> has joined ##OpenGL[04:11:50] *** deepio <deepio!~deepio@dyndsl-080-228-178-119.ewe-ip-backbone.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[04:13:54] <zid> I just spotted a bug though, the texture for the ring around the flowers is upside down.. I'm not sure what's more troubling, one texture being upside down or them all being upside down[04:14:14] <sacrebleu> meh i'm going to have to rewrite my loading/setup argyle bargle[04:14:48] <sacrebleu> this seems like a good tutorial https://mariuszbartosik.com/opengl-4-x-initialization-in-windows-without-a-framework/[04:15:20] <zid> https://i.imgur.com/YdAaUUB.png The texture filtering is nice though :)[04:15:48] <ZeroWalker> i use opengl without any framework;d[04:15:56] <ZeroWalker> except glad if that counts[04:18:52] *** BearishMushroom <BearishMushroom!~BearishMu@82-209-154-59.cust.bredband2.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[04:20:37] *** groton <groton!~groton@unaffiliated/groton> has quit IRC (Quit: groton)[04:25:07] <zid> https://i.imgur.com/7k7Sola.jpg Okay so the texture is upside down in the original model..[04:27:48] <zid> https://imgur.com/a/0Z0DO Better view[04:28:01] <zid> So in the real model the texture is upside down, but not in my engine..[04:29:38] <zid> I don't even know where to begin thinking about this[04:34:32] *** groton <groton!~groton@unaffiliated/groton> has joined ##OpenGL[04:39:17] *** Orion] <Orion]!~H0i@unaffiliated/orion/x-3970838> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[04:43:04] <ZeroWalker> probably stupid, but can't you just flip the uv?[04:44:41] <zid> that doesn't solve the bug[04:44:55] <zid> That'd flip every texture[04:45:03] <zid> maybe all my textures are flipped, idk, but I need to understand that first[04:45:22] <ZeroWalker> ah yeah true[04:45:28] <ZeroWalker> it's more of a workaround[04:50:05] <zid> erm.. does opengl infact want textures to be upside down like a bmp, by any chance[04:50:12] <zid> that would explain this, my textures all being upside down[04:51:45] <zid> so 1.0-v in the shader would fix it, but I think I can just get my png loader to swap the rows[04:52:42] <Stragus> zid: Origin is bottom-left, maybe that's your problem[04:53:54] <zid> Yea, it loads them like bmps[04:54:01] <zid> not like pixels[04:54:11] <zid> I just inverted my textures in the png loader[04:58:46] <ZeroWalker> i find it so annoying that it can differ, it's so confusing when some or top first and others bottom first etc[04:59:15] <zid> bmp and opengl are last row first[04:59:19] <zid> that's all you need to remember[05:00:56] *** wuji2016 <wuji2016!~Thunderbi@112.26.78.164> has joined ##OpenGL[05:03:40] *** Tee_Pee <Tee_Pee!uid23783@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vyzonhdqmyaudvsn> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[05:07:19] *** wuji2016 <wuji2016!~Thunderbi@112.26.78.164> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[05:08:01] *** lucaswang <lucaswang!~lucaswang@114.84.215.127> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[05:08:28] *** lucaswang <lucaswang!~lucaswang@114.84.215.127> has joined ##OpenGL[05:08:51] *** Thorn <Thorn!~Thorn@unaffiliated/thorn> has joined ##OpenGL[05:09:01] *** rizzo <rizzo!~RizzoTheR@p54B6BDA4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[05:11:02] *** xissburg <xissburg!~xissburg@unaffiliated/xissburg> has joined ##OpenGL[05:12:47] *** lucaswang <lucaswang!~lucaswang@114.84.215.127> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[05:29:00] *** DrBenway <DrBenway!~DrBenway@modemcable080.164-57-74.mc.videotron.ca> has joined ##OpenGL[05:29:21] *** upgrdman <upgrdman!~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[05:29:37] *** DrBenway <DrBenway!~DrBenway@modemcable080.164-57-74.mc.videotron.ca> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[05:43:05] *** lucaswang <lucaswang!~lucaswang@114.84.215.114> has joined ##OpenGL[06:04:15] *** snakegums <snakegums!~snakegums@c-73-247-106-227.hsd1.il.comcast.net> has joined ##OpenGL[06:07:40] *** tambry <tambry!~tambre@b1b9-edf1-e3c7-f8f9-ab80-8a0a-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee> has joined ##OpenGL[06:08:33] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has joined ##OpenGL[06:22:11] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host81-153-204-241.range81-153.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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IN YOUR FACE, SCRUB![13:45:54] <DarkUranium> there's plenty for you, too[13:45:59] <DarkUranium> you have 12 hours to get to Slovenia[13:46:09] <zid> I need a jet but it's doable[13:46:09] <eto> as i am diving deeper and deeper into the docs i am learning that everything i knew about immediate is de facto obsolete[13:46:13] <zid> would probably cost a few grand[13:46:18] <eto> yet the code still works[13:46:27] <DarkUranium> eto, yeah, it's basically been obsolete since OpenGL 2 (not formally deprecated back then yet, though)[13:46:34] <zid> obsolete doesn't mean someone comes to your house and deletes the code[13:46:35] <eto> first thing is - can i mix immeadiate things and new things?[13:46:47] <DarkUranium> Yes and no.[13:47:05] <DarkUranium> OpenGL allows for a 4.5 compatibility profile. Many (most?) implementations tend to stop at 3.x for that.[13:47:05] <eto> zid: well it might mean app doesn't work - but it compiles and runs fine[13:47:25] <DarkUranium> zid, or buy me an ICBM[13:47:35] <DarkUranium> MIRP[13:47:40] <DarkUranium> (Multiple Independent Reentry Pizza)[13:47:59] <eto> okay so reading up further i learned that all "noob" matrix funcs, begin/end pair are deprecated[13:48:12] <DarkUranium> I think what you should do is read a modern tutorial or something[13:48:16] <DarkUranium> or at least example[13:48:35] <DarkUranium> latest GL you can manage to find[13:49:11] <eto> so let me say what i think is now proper way : i have to bind vtx. shader which does the matrix funcs in itself (translate, rotate, scale) in itself and "move" geometry with that[13:49:38] <eto> and i need to bind pixel shader as well, so that i can see pixels on screen is that correct assumption[13:49:40] *** svp <svp!~svp@unaffiliated/svp> has joined ##OpenGL[13:49:56] <zid> You can still move it on the cpu[13:50:01] <zid> you'd just need to reupload the geometry[13:50:02] <eto> DarkUranium: most tuts i found are rather copy/paste[13:50:06] <zid> with the glvertex functions[13:50:31] <DarkUranium> eto, GL calls it a fragment shader, BTW.[13:50:46] *** Neomex <Neomex!~quassel@net-37-117-5-106.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has joined ##OpenGL[13:50:58] <DarkUranium> (which is a more correct name anyhow, I'd argue)[13:51:02] <eto> zid: but not with DarkUranium sorry yes, fragment[13:51:11] <eto> sorry[13:51:14] <eto> DarkUranium sorry yes, fragment[13:51:30] <eto> zid: but not with glRotated anymore, right?[13:52:11] <zid> no, write your own function or use the provided auxillary library[13:52:15] <zid> glu or glew or whatever it's called[13:52:22] <eto> i see[13:52:22] <zid> or just any random matrix library[13:52:31] <DarkUranium> zid, he can't use glu, that's the same as trying to use deprecated GL2[13:52:37] <DarkUranium> glu no longer exists in modern[13:52:48] *** ville <ville!~ville@176-93-184-210.bb.dnainternet.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[13:53:12] <DarkUranium> it even operates the same (namely, it directly works on the GL matrix stack, it doesn't allow you to separately compute stuff)[13:53:18] <zid> I literally just said I don't know what it was called[13:53:20] <exDM69> eto: so there are two things that have been deprecated: 1) immediate mode (glBegin/End, glVertex, glTexCoord, etc) 2) fixed function pipeline ("default" vertex & fragment shaders)[13:53:22] <DarkUranium> eto, you can use glm, though[13:53:26] <zid> glm, there we go[13:53:31] <exDM69> eto: replacing immediate mode is easy[13:53:34] <DarkUranium> zid, you said "provided". glm is not provided, it is a third-party library, no affiliation with Khronos whatsoever.[13:53:49] <zid> I've never used any of them, sorry[13:54:02] <eto> so, well, anyway, this confirms if i want to use "modern" opengl - i need to look up vtx.shader binding frag.shader binding and vbos drawing[13:54:11] <DarkUranium> I also argue that it's a poor-quality library, all in all, but that's a discussion for another time.[13:54:42] <DarkUranium> eto, nowadays, you can *tell* OpenGL which binding you want a variable (be it uniform or attribute) be in[13:54:48] <exDM69> eto: you should first replace immediate mode with vertex buffers but keep on using the fixed pipeline[13:54:54] <DarkUranium> ^[13:54:56] <exDM69> when you've done that, then replace fixed pipeline with shaders[13:55:04] <eto> DarkUranium: yes i am learning that (attributes)[13:55:05] <exDM69> don't try to do it all in one go[13:55:11] <eto> exDM69: problem is i kinda suck at math - i can manage, but i am extremely slow (which doesn't matter as this project has no deadline)[13:55:23] <zid> so use a library that has the old interface[13:55:23] <DarkUranium> good time to learn, then[13:55:29] <zid> or just learn, yea[13:55:32] <DarkUranium> zid, "the old interface"?[13:55:40] <zid> DarkUranium: immediate calls to rotate things[13:55:47] <exDM69> eto: the solution is get better at math :)[13:55:56] <exDM69> you have the perfect excuse and this isn't difficult math[13:55:57] <DarkUranium> How will that help him? He literally said he wants to move off of deprecated stuff.[13:56:03] <DarkUranium> So, using deprecated stuff is not a solution.[13:56:21] <zid> because that's not what I said[13:56:39] <eto> exDM69: thank you i wanted to hear this, regarding the "how to port" strategy - because i tried implementing vbo according to new tuts and "embed" it into the program at Draw call, but i see nothing[13:56:50] <DarkUranium> what *did* you say, then?[13:56:59] <DarkUranium> eto, I think you really need to tell us which GL version you're using at this point[13:57:44] <eto> DarkUranium: howestly i don't know - i get GL context from SDL and i know immediate works[13:57:57] <exDM69> eto: that's quite common, something small goes wrong, you get nothing on screen[13:58:03] <eto> DarkUranium: no idea which OpenGL version SDL picks[13:58:21] <exDM69> eto: https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki/Debug_Output <<-- you should enable this first[13:58:33] <DarkUranium> eto, glGetString(GL_VERSION)[13:58:57] <eto> the physical machine is optimus on linux (nvidia/intel) and i am pretty sure that i am running on intel[13:58:59] <DarkUranium> (BTW, in the long run, you'll definitely want to request an *exact* GL version ... I'd recommend SDL2 for that)[13:59:10] <DarkUranium> yes, unless you're running it via `optirun`[13:59:17] <DarkUranium> but I'm talking about the GL version, not device[13:59:42] <DarkUranium> the device is irrelevant in most cases (it only becomes relevant when the discussion shifts to bugs or vendor-specific extensions or such)[13:59:43] *** Fig1024 <Fig1024!~Fig@175.117.3.23> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[13:59:46] <eto> exDM69: will debug output work even in compatibility profile?[14:01:39] <exDM69> eto: depends if you're on a new gpu/os/driver[14:01:53] <exDM69> e.g. if you're on new nvidia gpu and fresh drivers, yes it will[14:02:02] <exDM69> if you're on apple, no it won't[14:02:22] <DarkUranium> eto, there's no guarantees that it'll work even in core; if it doesn't work, it's basically a no-op, so you can *try* using it in any case.[14:02:28] <eto> glGetString(GL_VERSION) returned following string '3.0 Mesa 17.3.3' so i guess it's ogl3.0 :)[14:02:36] <DarkUranium> okay, that's good to know[14:03:53] *** Borkr <Borkr!~Borkr@mail.seaonics.com> has joined ##OpenGL[14:04:44] <eto> okay as this project contains lot of immediate drawing, i guess, i should stop messing with it, create something "hello world triangle" from scratch and try to get triangle drawn using modern way, shaders and vbo.[14:05:08] <eto> once i understand that, i can go back and try to "port" over[14:05:18] <DarkUranium> that might be a better idea, yes[14:05:21] <DarkUranium> I'd recommend using SDL2, however[14:05:37] <eto> it seems to me, it makes no sense to try mix "new world" with "old world"[14:05:41] <DarkUranium> because that allows you to request a forward-compatible profile, and an exact version (so, 3.0 without deprecated stuff)[14:05:54] <chek> you can use shaders in gl 2 while still using glBegin, glPushMatrix, etc[14:05:58] <chek> so there is a middle ground[14:06:18] *** immibis <immibis!~chatzilla@122-59-200-50.jetstream.xtra.co.nz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[14:06:19] <chek> or at least, there are shaders on the other side of the massive ravine between 1.1 and core[14:06:23] <eto> DarkUranium: sorry for not being specific, yes i am on SDL2 now that was first thing i got going[14:06:27] <zid> old ass shader specs though[14:06:30] <DarkUranium> chek, I think converting it to core is the point of this excercise, though[14:06:37] <zid> I'd go strait to 4[14:06:48] <DarkUranium> eto, using both old & modern does make sense in some rare cases (like legacy code that needs some new things), but for new projects, definitely go core[14:07:03] <eto> chek: yes i assumed there are some mixed "modes" but you see one needs to be deep in opengl to do that - not a beginner/noob like me[14:07:22] <DarkUranium> zid, his old code is 3.0 compat, so I think it might be easier to port from 3.0 compat to 3.0 forward[14:07:30] <DarkUranium> as opposed to 3.0 compat to (say) 4.1 core[14:07:42] <zid> You'd have your triangle by now if you'd just spent this time ripping off a tutorial ;)[14:07:50] <DarkUranium> though yes, eto, if you think you can manage, doing straight 4.x (or at least 3.3) would be better.[14:07:50] <eto> DarkUranium: frankly the original code within source is probaly ogl1.5/ogl2.0[14:08:29] <DarkUranium> it's not that different to 3.0, and especially 3.2/3.3 add some neat things[14:08:40] <eto> it all started when i wanted to draw vbo grid in addition to what i have, and i learned that everything what i've got is probably wrong[14:08:48] <DarkUranium> right[14:08:58] <DarkUranium> you can draw a grid without using a VBO at all, for what it's worth![14:09:01] <DarkUranium> I mean, in modern GL[14:09:53] *** ngm <ngm!~nishanth@183.82.187.154> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[14:10:46] <eto> this is "2d" thing, current impl. draws simple quads, but i want to add new qaudgrid object which allows user to define arbitrarily big quadgrids for huge images i want to rotozoom and pan[14:11:01] <DarkUranium> what's a "quadgrid"?[14:11:23] <DarkUranium> or rather, what do quadgrids have to do with image sizes? Are you talking about rendering images tiled, for those *really* big ones?[14:11:33] <eto> DarkUranium: sorry my name - "grid of quads"[14:12:36] <eto> yes for images that have non power of 2 texture, and texture surpassing gfx card size limits let's say 10k x 10k[14:13:09] <eto> i know the thing will be pretty complex (probably will need to split image into multiple textures at certain size)[14:13:24] <eto> but i wanted to start with geometry, at least[14:13:44] <DarkUranium> non-power-of-2 is well-supported for most things nowadays, just FYI[14:13:49] <DarkUranium> at least on desktop, that is[14:14:25] <DarkUranium> 10kx10k is also well within the size limits for modern cards, too[14:14:30] <eto> DarkUranium: i know situation is much better than it was 10 ago when i last messed with opengl, but is this true even on crappy embedded intel cards?[14:14:30] <DarkUranium> but I get your idea[14:14:43] <DarkUranium> it is, because it's part of GL core that they have to be[14:14:49] <DarkUranium> otherwise, Intel couldn't support modern GL[14:16:05] <eto> ah okay - so think single quad would suffice for all cases, even when texture approaches non power of 2 maxres?[14:16:48] <eto> i still plan to pan above huge images, so i thought grid approach is worth the time[14:17:37] <DarkUranium> depending on size of the image, it might, yes[14:17:58] <DarkUranium> but that's for stuff above 16k in dimension or thereabouts[14:18:30] *** raynold <raynold!uid201163@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eloufbpgpcnnycvk> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[14:18:34] <eto> okay so it's not completely bullshit idea[14:19:48] <eto> well thanks guys anyway, this was very helpful, i have to go. i will try to get modern ogl going first then, and see what that will bring[14:20:43] <DarkUranium> as I said, 3.0 forward-compatible (removes deprecated stuff) for slightly easier porting, though 4.x/3.3 core would be far preferable[14:21:37] *** snakegums <snakegums!~snakegums@c-73-247-106-227.hsd1.il.comcast.net> has joined ##OpenGL[14:22:27] <roxlu> What is the "modern" way of rendering with textures? Is it still the common way to bind a texture to a unit and set an uniform/[14:23:00] *** slime <slime!~slime73@142.134.95.169> has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)[14:23:12] <exDM69> roxlu: yes, for most textures[14:23:41] <exDM69> if you're asking how a modern game engine deals with textures, they do some kind of texture virtualization and use large texture arrays[14:24:00] <exDM69> but the way you choose a texture is the same, bind to a unit and set uniform valua[14:24:02] <DarkUranium> that reminds me, eto, in your case, texture arrays might help a lot. Use them as sort of a cache.[14:24:31] *** ville <ville!~ville@176-93-11-177.bb.dnainternet.fi> has joined ##OpenGL[14:24:44] <roxlu> Thanks exDM69[14:25:45] *** Orion] <Orion]!~H0i@unaffiliated/orion/x-3970838> has joined ##OpenGL[14:26:09] <eto> exDM69: DarkUranium: texture arrays are exvivalent to vertex buffer, but insted of containing multiple vertexes, they contain multiple textures?[14:26:20] <exDM69> no[14:26:22] <exDM69> not at all[14:26:50] *** Fig1024 <Fig1024!~Fig@175.117.3.23> has joined ##OpenGL[14:26:56] <exDM69> texture arrays are kinda like 3d textures but have a bit different sampling and filtering characteristics[14:27:00] <DarkUranium> ^[14:27:11] <DarkUranium> 3D textures do sampling in the Z direction as well, while texture arrays still do sampling only in X/Y[14:27:18] <DarkUranium> I mean, 2D texture arrays[14:27:30] <DarkUranium> (& filtering)[14:28:46] <ZeroWalker> guten morgen:)[14:29:04] <DarkUranium> hi ZeroWalker[14:30:03] *** Serpent is now known as Serpent7776[14:47:24] *** genr8_ <genr8_!~genr8_@unaffiliated/genbtc> has joined ##OpenGL[14:48:35] *** Fig1024 <Fig1024!~Fig@175.117.3.23> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[14:50:48] *** Fig1024 <Fig1024!~Fig@175.117.3.23> has joined ##OpenGL[14:53:36] *** Sharkigator <Sharkigator!~Sharkigao@ppp-83-171-189-251.dynamic.mnet-online.de> has joined ##OpenGL[14:54:10] *** AlexSvideniuk <AlexSvideniuk!~oleksandr@195.234.75.138> has joined ##OpenGL[14:58:47] *** snakegums <snakegums!~snakegums@c-73-247-106-227.hsd1.il.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[15:00:21] *** ngm <ngm!~nishanth@183.82.187.154> has joined ##OpenGL[15:08:18] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host81-153-204-241.range81-153.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[15:08:50] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host81-153-204-241.range81-153.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##OpenGL[15:09:06] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host81-153-204-241.range81-153.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[15:12:39] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host81-153-204-241.range81-153.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##OpenGL[15:13:02] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host81-153-204-241.range81-153.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[15:13:31] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host81-153-204-241.range81-153.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##OpenGL[15:13:50] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host81-153-204-241.range81-153.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[15:18:07] <ZeroWalker> can't you have a vertex attribute as a struct?[15:18:40] <zid> how you chose to describe your memory isn't relevent, as long as the right bytes are in the right places[15:19:15] <ZeroWalker> yeah but can't seem to get it to work, my struct (CPU side) is essentially 5 floats. So i try to use float[5] on the vertex shader[15:19:50] <ZeroWalker> it runs sure, but it seems the data isn't right as nothing draws, and been trying to figure out why[15:19:54] <zid> codepad.org[15:19:59] <zid> or a binary[15:20:42] <exDM69> ZeroWalker: generally speaking, it's just asking for trouble using complex structs for shader inputs/outputs[15:20:59] <ZeroWalker> oh[15:21:20] <ZeroWalker> well basically want x,y, width,height and also the texture name[15:21:22] <zid> It's fine as long as your bytes are in the right places of course, which may require some skill to make sure you don't end up with padding etc[15:21:33] <zid> texture name?[15:21:38] <ZeroWalker> wrong[15:21:39] <zid> in your vertex?[15:21:40] <ZeroWalker> not the name[15:21:44] <ZeroWalker> meant the index[15:21:52] <zid> Are you using 2D_TEXTURE_ARRAY?[15:22:03] <ZeroWalker> yeah[15:22:08] <zid> ah okay then[15:22:18] <ZeroWalker> and i guess you have to go via the vertexshader[15:22:19] <zid> so {x, y}, {w, h}, {i} are your components[15:22:24] <ZeroWalker> yeah[15:22:44] <zid> So you'll want three attributes, three bindings, and three arrays[15:23:00] <zid> If you use structs you'll have to use the stride fields and do some math[15:23:15] <ZeroWalker> ah was "afraid" i would have to split it up[15:23:21] <ZeroWalker> wait, why would it require that?[15:23:35] <zid> because if you do struct vertex { float x, y; int w, h; int i; };[15:23:37] <ZeroWalker> shouldn't it be straightforward, 5 floats are just 4 byts each etc[15:23:43] <zid> then every 'x' is sizeof(struct vertex) apart[15:23:49] <zid> not sizeof(float) apart[15:24:01] <zid> or sizeof(float[2]) apart if you give it x,y as a pair like you probably would[15:24:20] <zid> so you would need to tell opengl about the stride (gap) between elements[15:24:29] <zid> which in your case would be the size of three ints[15:24:41] <ZeroWalker> but, what if i just set float[5] in the shader and GL_FLOAT, shouldn't it just assume it's sizeof(float)?[15:24:55] <ZeroWalker> so float[0] would equal x[15:25:06] <zid> Is there a vec5[] type?[15:25:20] <ZeroWalker> doesn't seem to be, hence why i went with float[5][15:25:20] <zid> Think about what you want the shader to see[15:25:29] <zid> there isn't vec5 so you went with vec5??[15:25:38] <ZeroWalker> no,i went with float[5]?[15:25:45] <zid> yes, and what do you write in your shader[15:25:49] <zid> in vec5 vertex;?[15:25:54] <zid> you just said vec5 doesn't exist[15:25:56] <ZeroWalker> no[15:25:59] <ZeroWalker> i just said xd[15:26:05] <zid> and you don't have five floats, either, you have 2 floats and 3 ints[15:26:19] <ZeroWalker> layout(location=1)in float[5] offset;[15:26:23] <exDM69> ZeroWalker: consider just five floats[15:26:28] <ZeroWalker> it's 5 floats xd[15:26:29] <exDM69> ZeroWalker: or vec4 + float[15:26:31] <ZeroWalker> i don't use any ints[15:26:41] <exDM69> 5 floats, not float[5][15:26:54] <zid> well my example struct was ints because you never showed me your actual one[15:27:21] *** lucaswang <lucaswang!~lucaswang@180.159.204.153> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[15:27:26] <exDM69> ZeroWalker: or if you insist on using arrays, you'll need to read the fine print about vertex specification[15:27:26] <ZeroWalker> you must have looked at the one in the shader which isn't used[15:27:30] <ZeroWalker> but wait ehm[15:27:38] <ZeroWalker> so, can i use the same buffer and split up the attributes?[15:27:47] <zid> You can use three buffers and split them up[15:27:53] <ZeroWalker> yeah that i know[15:27:53] *** lucaswang <lucaswang!~lucaswang@180.159.204.153> has joined ##OpenGL[15:28:04] <zid> in vec2 pos; in vec2 size; in float tex; or something would be a nice interface[15:28:15] <zid> you just asked if you could use one buffer, I said use three and you said "I know"[15:28:19] <zid> you're really hard to talk to[15:28:47] <ZeroWalker> ehm, think you didn't quite get that[15:29:00] <ZeroWalker> i Know you can use 3 buffers and 3 attributes[15:29:05] <ZeroWalker> i said Yes i know to that[15:29:15] <ZeroWalker> not "Yes i know you can't use 1 buffer"[15:29:22] <zid> I know you said that.[15:29:26] <zid> I was just talking about that fact[15:29:28] <zid> because it makes no sense[15:29:33] <zid> I'm going home[15:29:38] <ZeroWalker> kk cya[15:29:57] *** goiko <goiko!~goiko@unaffiliated/goiko> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[15:29:58] *** _borkr_ <_borkr_!~borkr@static130-244.mimer.net> has joined ##OpenGL[15:31:57] *** lucaswang <lucaswang!~lucaswang@180.159.204.153> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[15:32:32] *** goiko <goiko!~goiko@unaffiliated/goiko> has joined ##OpenGL[15:39:51] <roxlu> I'm using a compute shader for a particle system and I emit particles from a mesh. I use the vertex positions atm but I clearly see the vertex positions when I emit which I don't like. How can I make the emit position more random? Maybe randomly pick a point on a triangle of the mesh?[15:41:41] <ZeroWalker> hmm, so if i had a struct with 5 floats, and then did glBufferData(GL_ARRAY_BUFFER sizeof(struct), &struct, GL_STATIC_DRAW); glVertexAttribPointer(location, 2, GL_FLOAT, GL_FALSE, 0, 0);[15:41:58] <ZeroWalker> would it grab 2 floats, then jump the "sizeof(struct)"?[15:42:27] <zid> where did you tell it sizeof(struct)[15:42:41] <zid> oh there *points*[15:42:55] <zid> size[15:42:55] <zid> Specifies the size in bytes of the buffer object's new data store.[15:43:09] <zid> size[15:43:09] <zid> Specifies the size in bytes of the buffer object's new data store.[15:43:19] <zid> fuck sorry. I don't think that function does what you think it oes.[15:44:05] <ZeroWalker> thought it might upload that size, but only use the amount you tell it to, which would work as some kind of offset[15:44:14] <ZeroWalker> that doesn't seem to be the case though[15:46:14] *** Cooler <Cooler!~coolerext@14.139.60.12> has joined ##OpenGL[15:50:46] <ratchetfreak> if you set stride to 0 then opengl assumes stride is tightly packed, in this case 2 floats per vertex[15:51:13] <ratchetfreak> stride is the second to last parameter of glVertexAttribPointer[15:51:43] <ZeroWalker> oh[15:51:58] <zid> I even gave him example code yesterday or the day before, and pointed out he was using the wrong function, and pointed out he was using the parameters wrong, sigh[15:52:10] <ZeroWalker> ehm that wasn't me[16:00:20] *** Murii <Murii!~Murii@79.113.205.114> has joined ##OpenGL[16:01:27] *** zeduckmaster <zeduckmaster!~zeduckmas@85.106.1.181> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[16:08:57] *** lamduh <lamduh!~lamdih@64.128.62.6> has joined ##OpenGL[16:11:14] *** lamduh <lamduh!~lamdih@64.128.62.6> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[16:12:13] *** Apeiron` <Apeiron`!~Apeiron@enigmavoid.com> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in - it's pretty ftw)[16:15:17] *** Apeiron` <Apeiron`!~Apeiron@enigmavoid.com> has joined ##OpenGL[16:17:43] *** madsy <madsy!~madsy@cm-84.215.249.56.getinternet.no> has joined ##OpenGL[16:17:43] *** madsy <madsy!~madsy@cm-84.215.249.56.getinternet.no> has quit IRC (Changing host)[16:17:43] *** madsy <madsy!~madsy@fu/coder/madsy> has joined ##OpenGL[16:19:24] *** lucaswang <lucaswang!~lucaswang@180.159.204.153> has joined ##OpenGL[16:19:54] *** svp <svp!~svp@unaffiliated/svp> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[16:21:12] *** Apeiron` <Apeiron`!~Apeiron@enigmavoid.com> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in - it's pretty ftw)[16:22:50] *** Apeiron` <Apeiron`!~Apeiron@enigmavoid.com> has joined ##OpenGL[16:27:20] *** Cooler <Cooler!~coolerext@14.139.60.12> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[16:27:38] *** Cooler <Cooler!~coolerext@14.139.60.12> has joined ##OpenGL[16:29:32] <ZeroWalker> ratchetfreak, hmm, tried using stride, if i have (x,y, w,h,i), and want x,y. wouldn't the stride be 3?[16:34:26] *** lucaswang <lucaswang!~lucaswang@180.159.204.153> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:35:00] *** lucaswang <lucaswang!~lucaswang@180.159.204.153> has joined ##OpenGL[16:37:39] <ratchetfreak> stride is the number of bytes you want opengl to jump per vertex[16:38:04] <ratchetfreak> this includes the data it is using for the attribute[16:38:04] *** David3k <David3k!~David3k@120.29.112.59> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[16:38:35] *** David3k <David3k!~David3k@120.29.112.59> has joined ##OpenGL[16:38:48] <ratchetfreak> with 5 floats it is 5*sizeof(float) == 5*4 == 20[16:39:03] *** zid <zid!~zid@cpc112319-pete13-2-0-cust670.4-4.cable.virginm.net> has left ##OpenGL[16:39:21] *** lucaswang <lucaswang!~lucaswang@180.159.204.153> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[16:43:05] *** Sharkigator <Sharkigator!~Sharkigao@ppp-83-171-189-251.dynamic.mnet-online.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Let's all go and party on the moon!)[16:43:32] *** Guest3075 <Guest3075!~delicado@110.54.227.80> has joined ##OpenGL[16:44:00] *** watered <watered!~dagger@gateway/tor-sasl/watered> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:46:03] *** ville_ <ville_!~ville@178-55-93-116.bb.dnainternet.fi> has joined ##OpenGL[16:46:07] *** fluffrabbit <fluffrabbit!~fluffrabb@173-122-182-238.pools.spcsdns.net> has joined ##OpenGL[16:46:22] <fluffrabbit> 8 is not a square number, so how is 8x MSAA possible?[16:46:25] *** upgrdman <upgrdman!~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman> has joined ##OpenGL[16:46:38] *** ville <ville!~ville@176-93-11-177.bb.dnainternet.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[16:46:52] *** ville_ is now known as ville[16:48:17] <fluffrabbit> or 2x MSAA for that matter[16:48:38] <karalaine> fluffrabbit, it refers to samples, not reseolution[16:51:01] <fluffrabbit> yeah but a sample is a fragment right[16:51:04] <ZeroWalker> ah okay, yeah with 20 bytes it seems to work somewhat, the size is wrong of the drawing though, but might be how i give it the size itself[16:52:33] *** ville <ville!~ville@178-55-93-116.bb.dnainternet.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[16:53:09] <ZeroWalker> hmm, so when you upload the data this way, does that mean i basically upload 3 copies of the same buffer[16:53:31] *** lucaswang <lucaswang!~lucaswang@180.159.204.153> has joined ##OpenGL[16:58:06] *** lucaswang <lucaswang!~lucaswang@180.159.204.153> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[16:59:32] *** 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I am not sure, that my question is correct for that channel. Anyone had problems with opengl visualization view via windows remote desktop? In my app I have part of screne with black zone until not resize window.[21:09:19] *** stefkos <stefkos!~Pawel@82.177.144.226> has joined ##OpenGL[21:09:21] <Yaniel> complain to microsoft or your driver vendor[21:10:11] <daedok> Yaniel, good joke[21:11:08] *** Peixinho <Peixinho!Elite19900@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-cxtnmarsymebcrxp> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[21:14:15] *** RajRajRaj <RajRajRaj!uid72176@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xenoejdmtatjfrap> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[21:17:18] *** delicado <delicado!~delicado@110.54.201.66> has joined ##OpenGL[21:19:26] *** BitPuffin <BitPuffin!~isak@c83-248-113-111.bredband.comhem.se> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[21:20:27] *** KAHR-Alpha <KAHR-Alpha!~Alpha@2a01cb0d04c905000ca12f302925bd0d.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr> has joined ##OpenGL[21:21:44] *** Spridge <Spridge!32538e57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.83.142.87> has joined ##OpenGL[21:22:14] *** Spridge <Spridge!32538e57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.83.142.87> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[21:22:37] *** Spridge <Spridge!32538e57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.83.142.87> has joined ##OpenGL[21:24:13] <Spridge> When it comes to managing how much memory meshes/textures use, should I actively be trying to manage that myself by unloading things that I don't plan on drawing very soon at the expense of having to reload them manually from disk later?[21:24:48] <Spridge> From what I can tell it seems that opengl will handle some of that itself, but I can't tell if that's guaranteed or not[21:25:05] *** MrFlibble <MrFlibble!MrFlibble@90.196.204.40> has joined ##OpenGL[21:25:07] <Spridge> This is all in the context of a streaming world btw[21:25:08] <Stragus> Yup. You can do that in background threads to prevent stuttering[21:25:18] <Spridge> Yes - I am doing that now![21:25:37] <Spridge> I just wonder if it's worth actually freeing the gl objects[21:26:03] <Spridge> since it sounds like opengl will unload things I'm not actively using from the GPU as needed[21:26:14] <Stragus> If you don't, you'll run out of video memory and the GL drivers will begin swapping stuff in and out of video memory, probably not in the smartest way[21:26:39] <Spridge> Ok yeah that's what I'm really trying to figure out. It's a situation where I'm considering whether it's worth re-inventing the wheel or not[21:27:14] <chrisf> if you know something is dead, get rid of it[21:27:15] <Spridge> in theory I'd be fine with letting opengl swap it out. I don't expect any sort of thrashing behavior i.e. I'll keep the number of assets needed at any one time reasonably low[21:27:33] <chrisf> there also exist drivers which give up[21:27:46] <Spridge> I just have no idea how robust and efficient opengl's implementation of these sorts of things is guaranteed to be[21:27:47] <chrisf> "this is all too hard, crash now"[21:27:57] <Spridge> Ah ok. That's very helpful. I didn't know if that was the case or not[21:28:05] <Stragus> GL swapping things will make your frame rate stutters, assuming the drivers are well behaved in the first place[21:28:14] * chrisf gives the intel windows driver the frownyface[21:28:24] <Spridge> haha[21:28:41] <Spridge> That's very disappointing! But it's still not a hard problem to solve on my own[21:29:04] <Spridge> the only complicating factor is that there is still no "correct" way to check gpu memory usage, right?[21:29:12] <Stragus> I tend to agree that it's not the implementation's job to manage video memory, the programmer will always do a better job[21:29:36] <Spridge> so it'd actually be very hard to "adapt" to a given pc's capability[21:29:39] <Stragus> There are two extensions, and it's about 10 lines of code to use both and get the number[21:29:51] <Spridge> are they broadly supported?[21:30:07] <chrisf> Spridge: ideally, your streamed stuff can just recycle a pool of buffers all the same shape[21:30:28] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7osvi3fldh8skl.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[21:30:55] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7osvi3fldh8skl.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined ##OpenGL[21:31:27] <Spridge> chrisf: Yeah I was thinking about doing something like that, but I also wondered if simply reusing buffers would be that much faster if they're not the same size[21:31:28] <Stragus> Spridge: There's a Nvidia extension and an AMD one. And then there are the Intel GPUs which share their memory with the CPUs[21:31:40] *** glYoda <glYoda!~MTLYoda@c-73-25-27-206.hsd1.or.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: glYoda)[21:31:56] <Stragus> Reuse buffers/textures/framebuffers as much as possible[21:32:13] <chrisf> Spridge: you dont need to allocate /exactly/ the right size either[21:32:18] <Spridge> Stragus: It just seems very cumbersome if mobile is a consideration and all that[21:32:23] <chrisf> if it makes reuse easier, round up a bit.[21:32:57] <Spridge> chrisf: Yeah I'm very aware of that. Doing sort of a "dynamic array" type dealy. I'll have to experiment then.[21:33:15] <Spridge> You guys have answered my main question very thoroughly though! Thanks a bunch![21:33:30] <Stragus> My engine tends to allocate very big buffers and internally manages ranges from any need that comes up[21:33:34] <Stragus> for* any need[21:35:04] <Spridge> do you find yourself actively checking available resources often? Or just sort of going at it with a minimum spec target system in mind[21:35:33] <Stragus> Often? I check total video memory once, and count my usage myself[21:35:54] <Spridge> sorry - I meant often in terms of on different projects[21:36:24] <Spridge> I've also read, maybe incorrectly, that counting your own usage is extremely error prone just due to implementation differences[21:36:49] <Spridge> so do you tend to just assume worst case scenarios? etc.[21:37:23] <Stragus> Counting your own usage is inexact, but you can make overetimate safely. I think my engine assumes any allocation (including mipmaps) is aligned on 4096 bytes[21:38:44] <Spridge> and also, how does your engine behave differently depending on available vram etc.?[21:38:52] <chrisf> as long as you're within 20% or so i wouldnt be worried[21:39:36] <Spridge> thanks for the useful guideline. :)[21:40:44] <Spridge> I'm mostly worried about textures. Most projects seem to be absolutely blowing up their texture sizes and I'm trying to make my code more flexible for multiple huge textures.[21:41:33] <Stragus> It should be pretty easy to downscale textures if needed, 2048x2048 instead of 4096x4096[21:41:40] <chrisf> scale by throwing away the biggest mipmaps[21:41:54] *** immibis <immibis!~chatzilla@122-59-200-50.jetstream.xtra.co.nz> has joined ##OpenGL[21:41:57] <Spridge> yeah - but managing all of that manually (and intelligently) is spooky[21:42:11] <derhass> sparse textures[21:42:27] <chrisf> Spridge: what range of hardware do you need to target?[21:42:36] <Spridge> chrisf: I've never actually tried that. Is there a facility in ogl for doing that? Or do you just mean when you load in textures that have pre-generated mipmaps[21:42:56] <chrisf> Spridge: always pregenerate the mipmaps, and decide which to load[21:42:58] <Stragus> GL-generated mipmaps are low quality, stupid box filter[21:43:15] <Spridge> chrisf: right now it's entirely speculative. I'm just making sort of a toy engine, for learning and experimenting[21:43:15] <Stragus> It's pretty fast though, good for runtime generated textures updated every frame[21:43:20] *** suppahsrv <suppahsrv!~mopmop@host66-161-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[21:43:37] *** suppahsrv <suppahsrv!~mopmop@host66-161-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it> has joined ##OpenGL[21:45:00] <Spridge> I want to generally overhaul my resource management/loading system. Pregenerating mipmaps is probably a very good place to start, but I like the ability to just summon a png texture from code directly if needed for some goofy thing I'm experimenting with[21:45:59] <chrisf> can preserve that ability by writing a bit more code ;)[21:46:11] <Spridge> I've done something similar already -[21:47:05] * Stragus realizes his code to compute high quality mipmaps on the CPU is 18k lines of code[21:47:10] <chrisf> if you need to stream texture data too, then arrange so you can fill the tail first, and then add bigger levels on top.[21:47:17] <Stragus> Oops, 4k lines, nevermind that[21:47:18] <Spridge> where I had different modes of file io. It'd try to put everything into a pak file as it was loaded, and I could have it look for updated versions outside of the pak, etc.[21:47:30] <Spridge> but it just got so annoying to deal with, which I know is my own fault[21:47:55] <Spridge> what's current state of the art for mipmapping?[21:48:09] <chrisf> you might throw that away in favor of the worst-named library: physfs[21:48:44] <chrisf> will do your paks and patch paks and loose files handling more or less the right way with very little work[21:48:45] <Stragus> I use a tweaked SSE-optimized Kaiser-Bessel resizing algorithm, preserving/enhancing details in mipmaps without ringing or other artefacts[21:48:53] <Spridge> I might do that then![21:49:26] <Spridge> yeah if I'm making mipmaps I'm going to do it as easily as possible haha. Don't need any SSE if I'm pregenerating them[21:49:54] <Stragus> Yes... that code is to compute them at load time in background threads[21:50:17] <Spridge> hahaha[21:50:29] <chrisf> Spridge: your actual constraints will drive how much cleverness you need[21:50:42] <Spridge> I'm trying to spend less time on my engine dev and more time on game stuff[21:50:44] *** delicado <delicado!~delicado@110.54.201.66> has quit IRC ()[21:50:45] *** svp <svp!~svp@unaffiliated/svp> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[21:51:02] <Spridge> thanks again for all the help! I think you've all given me more than enough stuff to look into[21:51:03] *** _borkr_ <_borkr_!~borkr@static130-244.mimer.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[21:51:20] *** _borkr_ <_borkr_!~borkr@static130-244.mimer.net> has joined ##OpenGL[21:53:12] *** slvn_ <slvn_!~slvn_@c2s31-1-78-245-90-111.fbx.proxad.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[22:00:34] *** krychu <krychu!~krychu@136.117.192.178.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:00:44] *** krychu <krychu!~krychu@136.117.192.178.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined ##OpenGL[22:00:50] *** krychu <krychu!~krychu@136.117.192.178.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:00:59] *** krychu <krychu!~krychu@136.117.192.178.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined ##OpenGL[22:01:49] *** Murii <Murii!~Murii@79.113.205.114> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 1.4)[22:02:55] *** MrFlibble <MrFlibble!MrFlibble@90.196.204.40> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[22:03:42] *** AlexSvideniuk <AlexSvideniuk!~oleksandr@195.234.75.138> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[22:04:28] *** AlexSvideniuk <AlexSvideniuk!~oleksandr@195.234.75.138> has joined ##OpenGL[22:05:48] *** immibis <immibis!~chatzilla@122-59-200-50.jetstream.xtra.co.nz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[22:08:45] *** jcarpenter2 <jcarpenter2!~rofl@2601:441:8680:4631:9015:f38:2:b388> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[22:08:47] *** ragecryx <ragecryx!~ragecryx@2a02:2149:8777:c400:5de4:2db4:a4f:523e> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[22:09:02] *** jcarpenter2 <jcarpenter2!rofl@2601:441:8680:4631:9015:f38:2:b388> has joined ##OpenGL[22:09:44] *** ipee <ipee!~ipe@91-156-244-112.elisa-laajakaista.fi> has joined ##OpenGL[22:10:26] *** suhdood <suhdood!~suhdood@2600:380:4a4a:5631:98a1:a7d:3642:173f> has joined ##OpenGL[22:11:27] *** Kane <Kane!~Kane@home.yarg.fr> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[22:11:55] *** xerpi <xerpi!~xerpi@220.red-83-45-198.dynamicip.rima-tde.net> has joined ##OpenGL[22:12:14] *** ipe <ipe!~ipe@91-156-244-112.elisa-laajakaista.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[22:15:42] *** Peixinho <Peixinho!Elite19900@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-btxvweitzxznpmbv> has joined ##OpenGL[22:16:07] *** ClaudiusMaximus <ClaudiusMaximus!~claude@unaffiliated/claudiusmaximus> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[22:17:27] *** krystcich_ <krystcich_!~krystcich@178235146139.dynamic-zab-01.vectranet.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))[22:19:08] *** mtj_ <mtj_!~mtj@kohaaloha.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:19:53] *** groton <groton!~groton@unaffiliated/groton> has joined ##OpenGL[22:21:48] *** ClaudiusMaximus <ClaudiusMaximus!~claude@unaffiliated/claudiusmaximus> has joined ##OpenGL[22:23:07] *** Claudius1aximus <Claudius1aximus!~claude@host109-156-138-17.range109-156.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##OpenGL[22:24:05] *** Claudius1aximus <Claudius1aximus!~claude@host109-156-138-17.range109-156.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[22:30:11] *** slime <slime!~slime73@24.215.81.93> has joined ##OpenGL[22:31:36] *** slidercrank <slidercrank!~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank> has joined ##OpenGL[22:32:12] *** upgrdman_ <upgrdman_!~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman> has joined ##OpenGL[22:32:59] *** Spridge <Spridge!32538e57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.83.142.87> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[22:34:08] *** upgrdman <upgrdman!~upgrdman@blender/artist/upgrdman> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)[22:34:41] *** acksys_ <acksys_!~fritz@mail12.shutterfly.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)[22:34:54] *** suhdood <suhdood!~suhdood@2600:380:4a4a:5631:98a1:a7d:3642:173f> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:35:02] *** xerpi <xerpi!~xerpi@220.red-83-45-198.dynamicip.rima-tde.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[22:36:33] *** xerpi <xerpi!~xerpi@220.red-83-45-198.dynamicip.rima-tde.net> has joined ##OpenGL[22:37:22] *** _borkr_ <_borkr_!~borkr@static130-244.mimer.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[22:38:52] *** Kingsquee <Kingsquee!~kingsquee@d108-180-237-219.bchsia.telus.net> has joined ##OpenGL[22:41:30] *** acksys_ <acksys_!~fritz@mail12.shutterfly.com> has joined ##OpenGL[22:43:44] <friden> just out of curiousity, for the sake of just allocating buffer storage, does does the target that the buffer is bound to affect the allocation in any way?[22:45:33] *** idleloop <idleloop!~idleloop@95.211.185.57.static-nl.twistednetworks.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Bye)[23:02:38] *** karab44 <karab44!~karab44@unaffiliated/karab44> has joined ##OpenGL[23:03:35] *** karab44 <karab44!~karab44@unaffiliated/karab44> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[23:13:26] *** groton <groton!~groton@unaffiliated/groton> has quit IRC (Quit: groton)[23:15:06] *** castleboar <castleboar!~bes@unaffiliated/castlelore> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC 1.6.5 - http://znc.in)[23:15:38] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has joined ##OpenGL[23:16:28] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[23:17:57] *** Gama11_ <Gama11_!~quassel@p50902DA5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[23:19:45] *** Gama11 <Gama11!~quassel@p5DCDB010.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined ##OpenGL[23:21:53] *** suhdood <suhdood!~suhdood@2600:380:4a4a:5631:98a1:a7d:3642:173f> has joined ##OpenGL[23:29:35] *** xissburg <xissburg!~xissburg@unaffiliated/xissburg> has joined ##OpenGL[23:34:40] *** Sharkigator <Sharkigator!~Sharkigao@ppp-83-171-187-93.dynamic.mnet-online.de> has joined ##OpenGL[23:38:23] *** suhdood <suhdood!~suhdood@2600:380:4a4a:5631:98a1:a7d:3642:173f> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)[23:39:17] *** stefkos <stefkos!~Pawel@82.177.144.226> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[23:40:44] *** Quetzal2 <Quetzal2!~Quetzal2@unaffiliated/quetzal2> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[23:48:47] *** Sharkigator <Sharkigator!~Sharkigao@ppp-83-171-187-93.dynamic.mnet-online.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)[23:53:45] *** glYoda <glYoda!~MTLYoda@c-73-25-27-206.hsd1.or.comcast.net> has joined ##OpenGL[23:59:32] *** ImQ009 <ImQ009!~ImQ009@unaffiliated/imq009> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)