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   July 22, 2017
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[00:00:26] <DarkShin> xD yea its failing ;<
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[01:09:30] <thomaxo> How good of an idea is it to use shaders instead of sprites for 2d graphics?
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[01:09:46] <thomaxo> for a more "vector graphics"-y look
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[01:18:55] <DarkUranium> thomaxo, you mean vertex data instead of sprites?
[01:19:00] <DarkUranium> because you need to use shaders in any case.
[01:19:20] <thomaxo> Yeah i still need to learn the openGL pipeline and programming
[01:19:37] <thomaxo> but there wouldn't be any triangles
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[01:20:11] <thomaxo> pretty much only data specifying there is a green circle of radius 4 at position (10,340)
[01:20:17] <thomaxo> and simular stuff
[01:22:11] <thomaxo> the shader is defined as: if length( pixel.x y - circle.x y) < circle.radius then -> pixel.color = green
[01:22:45] <thomaxo> wouldn't that qualify as a shader? :)
[01:22:47] <dahlia> that is usually pretty slow for anything other than a few small primitives
[01:23:04] <thomaxo> hmm
[01:23:09] <thomaxo> i thought it worked like that
[01:23:27] <dahlia> you can do it but it's not how it's meant to work
[01:23:56] <thomaxo> oh, i thought this was kinda how shadows were ray traced
[01:24:11] <thomaxo> as the shader is kinda a raytracer in 2d i suppose
[01:24:32] <dahlia> GPUs are good at drawing and filling triangles
[01:25:03] <thomaxo> but very bad at real time lighting?
[01:25:19] <dahlia> I didnt say that
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[01:26:04] <dahlia> if you need to test each pixel to see if it is part of any primitive, thats a lot of work
[01:26:19] <thomaxo> yeah that is true
[01:26:53] <thomaxo> i thought, as raymarching is gaining momentum, a 2d implementation would be easy :)
[01:27:01] <dahlia> I know people do crazy stuff like that in shadertoy but most of that stuff is not practical
[01:27:24] <thomaxo> but what if that was all i wanted?
[01:27:28] <thomaxo> lots of sphere's
[01:27:41] <dahlia> a few spheres is easy, a lot isnt
[01:27:53] <thomaxo> hm
[01:28:24] <thomaxo> ok, then i'll need to cave
[01:28:41] <dahlia> I mean, do whatever you want. GPUs are designed to draw filled triangles though.
[01:29:13] <thomaxo> i know ^^
[01:29:29] <thomaxo> also applying a texture on said projected triangle
[01:29:53] <thomaxo> problem is, i only need sphere's, and i need them realistically lit
[01:30:23] <thomaxo> realtime dynamic lighting and such. no textures, no weird shapes.
[01:30:53] <thomaxo> But i suppose i'll need to wait a bit more till GPGPU stuff gets better
[01:31:04] <dahlia> ya you can raytrace a few spheres. If you try to do a lot then things get real slow
[01:31:20] <thomaxo> what would you consider alot?
[01:31:39] <dahlia> desktop? probably 20ish or more
[01:31:48] <thomaxo> ouch
[01:32:03] <thomaxo> ok i need to rethink my whole situation
[01:33:19] <dahlia> if you just do 3-4ish then it may even work on mobile
[01:34:34] <thomaxo> i'd need 1000 +
[01:34:36] <thomaxo> lol
[01:34:54] <dahlia> good luck :)
[01:34:56] <thomaxo> https://www.shadertoy.com/view/4dfXDn essentially something like this
[01:35:16] <thomaxo> and if the balls would be shaded i'd be in heaven
[01:35:55] <dahlia> I see 12
[01:35:59] <dahlia> not thousands
[01:36:08] <thomaxo> hmm
[01:36:30] <thomaxo> lets say 50 and the particles could be triangle rasterized
[01:37:08] <dahlia> try it and see
[01:37:33] <dahlia> test it on different machines
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[01:48:33] <phufs> hey! Is anyone here involved with GLM and/or knows if there is a more appropriate channel to ask questions about it?
[01:56:53] <render_loop_> What kind of questions? Simple usage questions, or more detailed info?
[01:57:29] <render_loop_> Seems like the creator is pretty active on Twitter if you want to ask someone involved: https://twitter.com/g_truc
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[02:25:50] <thomaxo> Does anyone have a recommendation for a good graphics book?
[02:26:27] <thomaxo> Ultimately i'd like to use metal as that's going to be my first target platform, but i suppose i can start a bit more broadly :)
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[02:35:02] <Kingsquee> am i right in understanding the idea is to CreateProgram/AttachShaders/BindAttribLocation/LinkProgram once and just UseProgram whenever that use case comes up?
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[02:37:58] <Kingsquee> I was thinking one could create a program and BindAttribLocation after the fact, to possibly cut down on the number of programs
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[03:19:09] <render_loop_> thomaxo OpenGL Superbible
[03:19:37] <thomaxo> thanks, render_loop_
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[03:19:43] <render_loop_> or Real-Time Rendering
[03:19:48] <thomaxo> I hope there isn't a cult associated :)
[03:20:15] <thomaxo> I'll buy both of them to be safe!
[03:20:46] <thomaxo> Which is more friendly to read first?
[03:21:40] <render_loop_> Superbible is more like a reference book, but RTR is more dense
[03:22:23] <thomaxo> RTR read more like a book, then?
[03:22:35] <thomaxo> I'll start reading that one first. Thanks! :)
[03:23:34] <AlexMax> okay, so I have a question
[03:23:42] <render_loop_> Not necessarily, if you're looking for something to read front->back you would have to look at a more broad style book like Game Coding Complete or 3D Game Programming w/ DX11
[03:23:55] <render_loop_> I'm not sure if there is one like the 3d game prog book for ogl
[03:23:57] <AlexMax> wrapping opengl in C++ stuff is very problematic because of all of the lifetime issues and global state
[03:24:17] <render_loop_> AlexMax depends on how you structure it
[03:24:24] <AlexMax> However, I've got a question, would it be a better idea to do my own bookkeeping in my C++ code?
[03:24:58] <AlexMax> Like, anytime I bind a texture to a certain slot, make a note of that in my C++ code, and any "checks" don't have to cross the OpenGL boundary
[03:25:30] <render_loop_> Yes, it is usually wise to cache your opengl state on the cpu
[03:25:48] <AlexMax> okay cool
[03:26:09] <AlexMax> I didn't know if the answer to the question is "yes, please do" or "you are opening zalgo, OpenGL will do surprising things behind your back" or whatever
[03:26:41] <render_loop_> However, if structured correctly you won't need to switch state unless absolutely necessary
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[03:28:37] <render_loop_> Here are some interesting counter points to mine: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/38883473/should-i-cache-opengl-state-such-as-currently-bound-buffers-or-does-opengl-do-t
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   July 22, 2017
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