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   February 23, 2017
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[01:06:33] <toblorone> Hi I'm developing on a laptop plugged into an external monitor and I've noticed that if I start my program on the laptop display, glViewport only renders to 1 quarter of the window, whereas if I start it from the main monitor it renders to the whole screen. When I unplug the monitor this behavior continues until i restart my computer. any idea what
[01:06:33] <toblorone> s causing this?
[01:06:41] <toblorone> this is on osx btw
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[01:56:06] <zzo38> Why it seem to sometimes access the wrong texture coordinate (off by one in one direction)? Also the program sometimes it refusing to start when trying to load one texture.
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[02:00:48] <zzo38> On here you can see the wrong output http://zzo38computer.org/img_1B/improper.png Do you know what is wrong?
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[02:19:36] <zzo38> Once what happened is I got the correct background colour and the program accepted mouse and keyboard input, but would not draw anything on the screen nor play music, and I don't know why.
[02:21:14] <zzo38> (It does that when I load a texture of the correct size, but which is blank, into the slot for that texture.)
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[02:28:27] <zzo38> It also somehow causes it to no longer receive SDL SYSWM events, although they still cause the screen to refresh somehow; I don't know why.
[02:29:51] <zzo38> I don't know if the problem is related.
[02:32:21] <slime> zzo38: are you using SDL1 or SDL2?
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[02:33:29] <zzo38> SDL1
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[02:34:09] <slime> how come?
[02:34:50] <zzo38> It is what is installed in my computer. (Also I don't like the keyboard handling in SDL2)
[02:35:23] <slime> well, keyboard handling in SDL1 was incorrect and broken
[02:35:41] <zzo38> It works fine
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[02:35:57] <slime> and parts of SDL1 don't function properly on modern operating systems
[02:36:18] <zzo38> It is not as good as the X11 core protocol keyboard handling, but it works fine
[02:38:54] <zzo38> But the keyboard is working and that isn't the problem anyways, and the other program has not this problem. (And, both programs even use the same C code, but different JavaScript code.)
[02:40:29] <zzo38> (Also, there is a problem that SDL1 and SDL2 share, which is that it isn't thread safe and signal safe.)
[02:40:57] <zzo38> (I have worked around it by using SYSWM events, but then that part of the program is not portable.)
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[02:45:35] <zzo38> But do you know what may cause one texture to fail to work sometimes (but not always) in OpenGL?
[02:46:28] <zzo38> And do you know why even when it does work, it accesses the wrong texture coordinate? (see the picture, to see what I mean is wrong)
[02:50:44] <zzo38> (In case it would help, I will say that it is a "RECTANGLE" texture rather than a "2D" texture.)
[02:52:56] <slime> posting a screenshot with no code and not much real context makes it hard for people to help you
[02:56:16] <zzo38> http://sprunge.us/jdMK
[02:58:50] <zzo38> Actually I can try something that I forgot to try.
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[03:05:36] <zzo38> I think I found out why the program sometimes fails at least, but that still does not explain why I get something like the screenshot when it does load.
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[03:06:49] <zzo38> (That first problem has nothing to do with OpenGL.)
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[03:16:43] <pinum> Hi, I’m not using OpenGL so sorry for the offtopic, but I need a quick sanity check: Is the “near” value provided when computing a perspective projection matrix supposed to affect the perspective?
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[03:18:40] <ESphynx> pinum that’s something that bit me before I think
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[03:19:08] <pinum> For instance, if I set near=2 my test object is much smaller than near=1
[03:19:37] <ESphynx> pinum: see what I do here -- https://github.com/ecere/ecere-sdk/blob/master/ecere/src/gfx/drivers/gl3/matrixStack.ec#L201
[03:19:38] <pinum> But when I make a similar setup in something else, such as opengl, the same thing doesn’t seem to happen
[03:19:49] <ESphynx>    nearPlane = n;    n = 1;
[03:19:57] <ESphynx> then l/= nearPlane; ...
[03:20:22] <ESphynx> might be a different thing :P this was causing stuff not to show on some GLES device :)
[03:20:42] <pinum> ESphynx: Thanks, I’ll take a look
[03:20:49] <chrisf> pinum: yes. the near plane is one of the critical elements defining your perspective projection.
[03:20:51] <ESphynx> pinum: it might be ‘clipped’ against the near plane?
[03:21:30] <pinum> ESphynx: No, it’s not clipped. all the verts are ~5-7 units away and I’m trying 1 vs 2 for `near`
[03:22:30] <pinum> chrisf: Thanks! I created an OpenGL test app and didn’t notice the same thing, and I also tried tweaking camera settings in 3D software like blender and it had no effect there either
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[03:23:31] <pinum> chrisf: So I concluded that `near`/`far` were not supposed to affect the perspective, only generate suitable depth values for clipping tests
[03:24:56] <chrisf> pinum: consider the difference between just chopping off more of the point of the frustum vs moving the plane back maintaining its `size` intersected with the other planes.
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[03:27:35] <pinum> chrisf: I’ll need to test some more. Thanks for the reassurance that I’m not doing something completely crazy
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[03:51:11] <pinum> chrisf: Does it make sense that I’m not seeing the same effect with OpenGL? I have a test app (fixed function, uses gluPerspective) which draws a quad and it looks the same whether near is 0.1 or 5
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[03:52:34] <chrisf> pinum: this is why i gave you the thought experiment above
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[04:10:28] <pinum> chrisf: I understand your visualisation of the frustum but I’m not sure how to fix it. I’m treating the perspective matrix as a bit of a black box, to be honest, which I know is the wrong way to go about things
[04:11:00] <pinum> chrisf: Does it imply that I’m preparing the matrix wrong, or that the rest of my pipeline (clip->ndc, etc) is wrong?
[04:11:15] <pinum> (Or both?)
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[04:23:01] <chrisf> pinum: changing near plane of gluPerspective corresponds to the first case. changing just the near plane of a glFrustum-style construction corresponds to the other case.
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[04:51:17] <zzo38> I fixed one of the problems (which had nothing to do with OpenGL nor with SDL). However there is still the other problem.
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[04:54:22] <zzo38> This is the part that is causing the problem in the picture:  http://sprunge.us/NVET
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[05:15:28] <chrisf> sigh, more arb programs
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[05:52:38] <zzo38> Precision hints don't help; I tried that.
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[06:14:25] <zzo38> I figured out how to fix it, but I want to know why it is necessary to do what I did to fix it.
[06:15:35] <zzo38> What I did is adding .3 after multiplying by 255 why is that necessary?
[06:17:00] <zzo38> Is that because of how floating numbers are stored (you can't store an exact fraction with a denominator of 255)? If so, why is the program for drawing text does not have the same problem?
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[07:33:20] <Fig1024_> zzo guy left already, but he should have been adding 0.5 instead of 0.3. heh
[07:37:17] <`Guest01> i need to combine all fragments generated for a pixel in a custom fashion before producing a color. what opengl features would this need?
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[07:38:51] <Stragus> All fragments for a single pixel? What do you mean exactly?
[07:39:18] <Stragus> When using multisampling, your fragment shader is still only executed once
[07:40:07] <gyatm> i know very little about opengl, but would deferred rendering be the solution?
[07:41:36] <Stragus> I think he needs to explain the problem better before anything else
[07:43:48] <Fig1024_> sounds like he's talking about blending
[07:43:51] <`Guest01> i mean, i need to get fragments for all triangles which contain a pixel on screen, then combine them
[07:44:54] <`Guest01> blending looke like what i want, but it's limited
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[07:45:24] <Fig1024_> next step is using stencil buffer
[07:46:29] <Stragus> "All triangles which contain a pixel on screen" ... Do you mean all triangles sharing samples from a multisampled FBO/texture?
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[07:46:59] <`Guest01> i don't know about multisampling
[07:47:00] <Stragus> Or do you mean all rendered triangles covering the pixel? (even if it would be depth culled)
[07:47:07] <`Guest01> yes, that
[07:47:38] <w3pm> is there a glCheckFramebufferStatus to string type of function
[07:47:57] <Stragus> Well, a framebuffer obviously can't accumulate a list of triangles/colors per pixel
[07:48:06] <Stragus> what kind of operation do you need exactly?
[07:50:18] <`Guest01> a complex one... need to combine all fragments in list ordered by depth in a certain way
[07:50:48] <`Guest01> but it is a list fold
[07:51:17] <Fig1024_> that describes a method, what's the purpose
[07:51:26] <Stragus> ^ What Fig1024_ said
[07:55:05] <`Guest01> purpose is rendering hexahedrons in "full volume" and also discarding some hexahedrons occupying same space
[07:55:44] <`Guest01> "full volume" means like ray tracing but rays never change directions, only lose color intensity
[07:56:25] <`Guest01> and "3d-texture" is so simple, i hope to have a function from two points on hexahedron surface to resulting color
[07:56:56] <Stragus> There are several methods for order-independent transparency (narrow purpose) or depth peeling (flexible, but awfull slow)
[07:56:59] <Stragus> awfully*
[07:57:55] <Fig1024_> and why hexahedrons?
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[07:58:51] <Stragus> That particular need may be better suited for ray tracing than rasterization
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[08:00:24] <`Guest01> Fig1024_: actually i want to render true 4D
[08:00:31] <`Guest01> hexahedrons are hyper-surfaces
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[08:01:24] * Stragus would ray trace that unless it's totally dynamic and changing every frame
[08:02:23] * Fig1024_ would back away slowly and then make run for it
[08:03:18] <`Guest01> Stragus: ray tracers require newer graphics cards and i have an old one
[08:04:35] <Stragus> How old? You can do compute shaders/CUDA/OpenCL on 8 years old Nvidia GPUs
[08:06:20] <`Guest01> no, that's not enoguh old
[08:07:03] <Stragus> You may as well trace rays on the CPU if all you have is a 10 years old GPU
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[08:08:25] <`Guest01> that's always a possibility, but may be not fast enough
[08:12:38] <Stragus> Yes well, you are running out of options
[08:13:53] <Fig1024_> he could setup networked processing, get 1000 old systems, hook them up, do distributed ray tracing on 10 year old CPU
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[08:14:43] <`Guest01> thanks for replies
[08:17:07] <Stragus> With good code, CPU ray tracing isn't that slow... You can get 10M coherent rays per second, or 3M incoherent rays
[08:17:33] <Stragus> GPUs are fantastic with coherent rays, not so much otherwise
[08:17:59] <Stragus> (10M and 3M for each CPU core, that is)
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[08:38:06] <dahlia> "coherent rays"?
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[08:41:23] <immibis> so an 800x600 display at 20fps with nothing else going on
[08:41:35] <immibis> which should be marginally playable
[08:41:38] <immibis> :P
[08:44:12] <ClaudiusMaximus> http://docs.gl/gl3/glBlitFramebuffer says "If filter is GL_LINEAR and the source rectangle would require sampling outside the bounds of the source framebuffer, values are read as if the GL_CLAMP_TO_EDGE texture wrapping mode were applied." but i'm seeing different behaviour (no change to draw framebuffer for areas outside read framebuffer)
[08:44:20] <ClaudiusMaximus> driver bug?  or wrong documentation?
[08:44:25] <Stragus> dahlia: Bundles of rays following very close paths in the acceleration structure
[08:45:32] <Stragus> immibis: That's for a single CPU core, you can multiply by 16 or whatever
[08:46:17] <immibis> ClaudiusMaximus: usually when the documentation doesn't match what you're seeing, in general it's a bug in your code
[08:46:27] <immibis> however opengl driver bugs are certainly not unheard of
[08:47:12] <dahlia> Stragus: so assume they intersect objects in a similar manner?
[08:47:34] <dahlia> and skip some tests?
[08:47:45] <immibis> dahlia: it could just be a matter of cache coherency
[08:47:50] <immibis> as opposed to skipping tests
[08:48:28] <dahlia> memory cache coherency for multicore?
[08:49:06] <ClaudiusMaximus> immibis: true, but my dst rectangle is the whole draw framebuffer, and some pixels remain unchanged after the blit framebuffer (with src rectangle set to something extending beyond framebuffer bounds)
[08:49:09] <Stragus> dahlia: On the CPU, you can trace a coherent bundle as a whole and break it apart progressively as required
[08:49:33] <Stragus> On the GPU, coherent bundles imply coherent memory loads and execution flow
[08:49:44] <dahlia> oic
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[09:39:58] <tej> hello, I've implemented projective texture mapping.
[09:40:46] <tej> I wanted to understand how I could go about scaling and translating the texture coordinates to give a bounding box effect for projective texture mapping.
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[10:04:01] <ClaudiusMaximus> (maybe i'm reading the documentation wrong...  will see if the spec has diagrams or more description than the man pages)
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[10:10:00] <Yuri6037> Hey all I'm back, I'm now trying to create a motion blur effect with framebuffers but I see something strange in glFrameBufferTexture2D : There's only 3 attachements possible does this means only 3 framebuffers can be used for render part of scene on texture ?
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[10:12:48] <ClaudiusMaximus> ok the spec is slightly clearer, seems to say that the GL_CLAMP_TO_EDGE stuff is only for the pixels at the edge of the source rectangle; and not for pixels outside the source rectangle (which is left unspecified)
[10:13:22] <ClaudiusMaximus> i guess i'll refactor to drawing a full screen triangle strip with a shader...
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[10:18:09] <BPL> Hi everyone
[10:20:31] <BPL> I was wondering... do you guys know any open-source demo with similar quality than these ones? http://www.nvidia.com/coolstuff/demos . It'd be really great to learn a little bit more about those techniques... the best i've found is https://github.com/NVIDIAGameWorks , but nothing as spectacular as the first link de
[10:20:34] <BPL> mos
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[10:34:52] <exDM69> BPL: look at the channel topic, there's some links to examples
[10:36:28] <exDM69> some of the stuff on that nvidia page has been either done by a research org (e.g. the human heads), while other have been done by nvidia with a fairly big budget and staff
[10:36:48] <exDM69> so don't expect to find stuff of comparable quality and quantity done by hobbyists...
[10:37:34] <BPL> exDM69: Those links are definitely not what I'm looking for... that's too introductory stuff, the best i've found so far was nv-pro repo, that's why i'm asking whether someone knew any high-quality open-source demo stuff out there
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[10:37:53] <exDM69> then the answer is "no"
[10:38:05] <exDM69> I haven't come across a large collection of high quality demos anywhere
[10:38:11] <Fig1024_> I noticed that I can mirror texture using glBlitFramebuffer by flipping source rectangle points (glBlitFramebuffer(start_x, end_y, end_x, start_y.. - vertical mirror) - is that part of the standard or is this a driver specific thing?
[10:38:53] <BPL> exDM69: i know, never seen something similar to nvidia's high quality demos anywhere neither. Just wondering, why they didn't release any of them over the years?
[10:38:55] <exDM69> Fig1024_: interesting... I know it can do linear filter resizing
[10:39:14] <exDM69> BPL: why didn't who release what?
[10:39:41] <BPL> NVIDIA
[10:39:58] <exDM69> those demos have been released over a period of 15-20 years
[10:40:19] <BPL> sorry, I meant why didn't they open-sourced these demos http://www.nvidia.com/coolstuff/demos ?
[10:40:52] <exDM69> because open sourcing stuff means dealing with lawyers if you work for $BIGCORP, and everyone hates talking to lawyers
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[10:41:17] <BPL> hehe :)
[10:42:14] <BPL> in any case, my question is still open, if somebody knows any high-quality opengl open-source demo, please let me know, thx in advance
[10:45:52] <ClaudiusMaximus> Fig1024_: flipping is specified (just been reading those docs today anyway)
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[10:48:34] <Fig1024_> cool, pretty useful
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[12:56:05] <antilogic> Im very confused about GL_FRAMEBUFFER_SRGB. I get different results on nvidia and intel. My pipeline: multisampled fbo(which i draw to), blit to srgb fbo, then blit to default framebuffer. On intel i dont get gamma correction, but on nvidia i do. Which one has correct behavior ?
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[14:37:05] <benny-innofaith> Hello gentlemen; I am trying to use gl_VertexID in my vertex shader. But my webgl context says: ERROR: 0:4: 'gl_VertexID' : undeclared identifier. Is the following page where gl_VertexID is mentioned a cake?: https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki/Built-in_Variable_(GLSL)
[14:39:17] <karalaine> benny-innofaith, that page is about desktop GL. WebGL or ES 2.0 doesnt have gl_VertexID
[14:39:32] <benny-innofaith> :-(
[14:39:42] <karalaine> you have to create and pass that data yourself
[14:40:04] <benny-innofaith> Okay; I'll guess i will do that.
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[14:43:57] <benny-innofaith> Is this the correct channel to ask webgl questions?
[14:45:28] <karalaine> as long as they arent JS related
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[16:06:24] <Nimmy> is it at all possible that a computer supports OpenGL3.2 but not 3.3?
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[16:06:39] <Chipzz> BPL: it may also be (not sure) these demos are heavily optimized for nvidia cards and don't run very well on non-nvidia
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[16:07:32] <BPL> Chipzz: Yeah, sure... and that's fair enough, really interested on how they coded that cool stuff
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[16:09:10] <BPL> Chipzz: You only see mostly of the time really trivial stuff or just simple specific opengl cases all over the internet. And if you want to check really professional stuff you end up looking at open-source games like unreal, doom, quake... but they're not demos anymore and the code is huge, so... it'd really awesome to find really cool open-source opengl demos out there :)
[16:09:45] <BPL> like the already mentioned www.nvidia.com/coolstuff/demos
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[16:13:20] <Xeek> Good Morning
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[16:18:18] <ratchetfreak> BPL: because non trivial stuff tends to depend on the rest of your project
[16:20:13] <ratchetfreak> also this repo has a ton of examples you may be interested in https://github.com/McNopper/OpenGL
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[16:21:45] <BPL> ratchetfreak: Oh, yeah, thanks, that's cool stuff ;-D
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[16:23:50] <BPL> ratchetfreak: Nice! he's a technical lead at vulkan, so yeah, definitely is really worth take a look to that repo :)
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[16:27:48] <ratchetfreak> he also has a vulkan repo
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   February 23, 2017
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