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[01:11:57] <Kurlon_> "OmniOSCE - Now available as an EMACS module."
[01:23:47] <_Tenchi_> haha
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[03:37:44] <LeftWing> Has anybody noticed, with "omni build_omnios" that kayak-kernel can't be built
[03:38:09] <LeftWing> Seems to be a conflict in mode bits for /home between two packages: omnios/library/ncurses and omnios/SUNWcs
[03:39:27] <LeftWing> ...
[03:39:29] <LeftWing> Oh goodness
[03:40:14] <LeftWing> Apparently having TERMINFO=$HOME/.terminfo in your environment will cause your home directory to end up in the ncurses package
[03:42:38] <LeftWing> I'm definitely getting the feeling that some environment sanitisation in "omni" might be a good idea
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[04:04:05] <richlowe> haha
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[11:00:03] <andyf> LeftWing - I've never noticed the pager thing, nor kayak kernel
[11:00:32] <andyf> LeftWing - thanks for the report about ncurses though, that needs fixing
[11:00:54] <andyf> LeftWing - Why would `omni build_omnios` fire up a git pager, I wonder
[11:00:57] <LeftWing> The ncurses thing was the cause of the kayak thing, for what it's worth
[11:01:12] <andyf> Yes, got that now, I should have ready everything at once
[11:01:23] <LeftWing> I think there's some use of git commands that I have configured to use a pager by default
[11:01:37] <lotheac> this is orthogonal, but i'm curious, why do you need terminfo in your homedir?
[11:01:41] <andyf> This is why I always like other people to try these tools
[11:01:52] <andyf> :)
[11:02:15] <LeftWing> lotheac: I probably don't now, but a million years ago on Solaris 10 I needed it for xterm-256color and such
[11:02:17] <andyf> You can probably imagine the initial troubles we had getting things to build, due to differences between the OmniTI environment and ours
[11:02:51] <andyf> but we had diversity between developers too, which was really useful for shaking out bugs.
[11:02:53] <LeftWing> lotheac: Apparently I've still got it rigged up in my NFS home directory
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[11:02:58] <lotheac> LeftWing: yeah, i remember that too. ncurses ships more reasonable stuff now though.
[11:03:27] <lotheac> although we did have one request from a user at the university years ago that we weren't shipping rxvt-unicode terminfo, because apparently upstream ncurses does not and will not carry it
[11:03:42] <lotheac> interpersonal conflicts between developers or something
[11:03:50] <LeftWing> That sounds exhausting
[11:03:53] <lotheac> yes
[11:04:26] <lotheac> i said to the user requesting, well it would be better if upstream ncurses would ship this, and he said "yeah that will not happen" and it turned out he was one of the rxvt-unicode devs :)
[11:04:32] <LeftWing> andyf: Have you noticed you can't build media right now because of the 64bit prtconf ?
[11:05:25] <andyf> LeftWing - hmm.. no, I build media most days
[11:05:31] <LeftWing> Huh.
[11:05:42] <LeftWing> I wonder what I'm doing wrong
[11:06:06] <andyf> With `omni build_media` to use the local repo, or `omni build_media https://pkg.omniosce.org/r151030/core` or similar
[11:07:29] <andyf> What are you seeing?
[11:10:09] <LeftWing> Some Missing library delta from the baseline
[11:10:34] <LeftWing> ldd doesn't seem to be working the way the missing library check expects for some reason
[11:10:40] <andyf> ah, ok. That check was added really recently
[11:11:18] <andyf> it might still need some work
[11:11:22] <LeftWing> It's a bit weird. For usr/sbin/prtconf it just prints fully qualified paths. It's like it's ignoring the LD_* stuff
[11:11:34] <LeftWing> Anyway I'll figure it out
[11:11:51] <andyf> It's supposed to stop us ending up with missing libraries in the miniroot, although some lazily-loaded ones are deliberately omitted (hence the baseline file)
[11:13:26] <LeftWing> Ahh
[11:14:01] <LeftWing> Yeah I suspect there's a more robust way to do this check but I have no idea what it is at the moment haha
[11:15:03] <andyf> I played with a few different variations (like ldd -d), elfdump variants, and even LD_DEBUG stuff. This seemed to work well enough.
[11:15:24] <andyf> The problem we hit was that the new ZFS crypto stuff added libcryptoutils as a dependency on libzpool (or was it libzfs?)
[11:15:39] <andyf> which broke the installer - which is fine since we have releases and this is the bloody branch
[11:18:07] <lotheac> omniti's kayak originally had this "bigroot" mode where it would not remove stuff from the miniroot, and you could use an anonymous dtrace script to figure out which files were accessed during the install
[11:18:14] <lotheac> it was pretty useful
[11:18:18] <andyf> Yep, we still have that
[11:18:27] <lotheac> right, ok :)
[11:18:52] <lotheac> it was still quite annoying because generating the installers still took forever
[11:18:55] <andyf> Although it does catch some things which aren't strictly needed, like /usr/bin/mail and its dependencies
[11:19:12] <lotheac> sure, it's a big hammer
[11:19:19] <andyf> We've massively improved things there (and so have the recent lofi fixes)
[11:19:34] <andyf> Assuming everything is in place, I can spin a new ISO in a minute or two
[11:19:41] <LeftWing> I was surprised how fast the media build was
[11:19:41] <andyf> and the entire media build only takes a few minutes
[11:19:42] <lotheac> nice
[11:19:54] <LeftWing> Also how fast pkg seems to have become!
[11:19:55] <lotheac> we should probably steal some of that stuff
[11:20:01] <lotheac> sometime when there's time :)
[11:20:15] <andyf> especially since it builds .iso, .ufs-dd, and a zfs send stream with variant=global and non-global
[11:20:22] <lotheac> pkg's become fast? that sounds very unlikely to me
[11:20:28] <lotheac> what changes could have done that?
[11:20:32] <andyf> LeftWing - one thing that helps pkg on OmniOS is the reduced set of packages..
[11:20:40] <LeftWing> That's interesting.
[11:20:47] <LeftWing> Maybe that's what it is then
[11:20:50] <andyf> but it has improved, yes
[11:20:58] <lotheac> we've also killed a crapton of packages from unleashed, and yes it does help, but it's still slow
[11:21:00] <andyf> we are caught up with upstream oracle now, and have switched to python3
[11:21:14] <lotheac> i kinda hoped we'd get rid of pkg before python2 eol'ed
[11:21:27] <lotheac> but it doesn't look likely, haven't done much lately
[11:21:46] <LeftWing> What would you replace it with?
[11:22:00] <lotheac> jeff was trying out freebsd's pkgng at some point
[11:22:22] <lotheac> personally i'd be fine with the openbsd approach of using tarballs for base system ;)
[11:23:28] <lotheac> i actually talked to a few freebsd people about porting pkgng at fosdem, but having time is always the problem wit hobbies
[11:23:34] <lotheac> with*
[11:23:36] <andyf> LeftWing - I should probably at least make the library dependency check thing non-fatal when interactive, and prompt to continue..
[11:25:05] <LeftWing> That would certainly cut down on cycles while experimenting
[11:25:26] <andyf> and I'll update omni to use --no-pager, and look at ncurses
[11:26:01] <andyf> omnios-build already does a lot of environment sanitisation, but TERMINFO could be one to add, or just patch the source, or something
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[11:26:50] <LeftWing> Alright! Thanks. It's been pretty smooth honestly, all things considered.
[11:26:55] <andyf> https://github.com/omniosorg/omnios-build/blob/master/lib/config.sh#L30
[11:27:54] <andyf> When we first tried to build OmniOS, hadfl could not build openssl at all
[11:28:09] <andyf> which turned out to be locale related
[11:28:15] <andyf> but burned a few hours
[11:28:23] <lotheac> i always found that approach weird... env -i should be safer (but then of course you can't pass any env)
[11:28:56] <LeftWing> env -i is what we have tried to do in illumos-extra for SmartOS I believe
[11:29:46] <andyf> (for interest, it was include order - in C locale <openssl/file_1.h> sorted before <openssl/file.h>, and in hadfl's locale it was the other way round.. or something like that
[11:30:04] <LeftWing> That's diabolical
[11:30:32] <andyf> I think it's because we try and support building arbitrary packages different ways.. `omni build_omnios` could certainly use env -i, but it's nice to be able to cd build/openssl; ./build.sh
[11:30:54] <andyf> I suppose we could look at changing all of the shebangs.
[11:31:37] <LeftWing> Yeah the more flexible you make it the harder it is to find an appropriate interposition point
[11:31:42] <lotheac> i don't think we do anything with env in unleashed. the idea is that if your env is broken you can keep both pieces of your built stuff ;)
[11:32:13] <andyf> It's an approach :) But it's really nice when people with different setups experiment and provide feedback too, then things will generally improve
[11:32:13] <lotheac> release builds are done in the same env always anyways
[11:32:46] <LeftWing> I'll let you know how my Linode experiment goes, anyway! For now it's sleep time.
[11:33:50] <lotheac> what exactly are you doing with linode? i used to run my unleashed dev box in linode for some time
[11:34:19] <andyf> One nice thing we have when building packages, is that it shows a diff of the contents from the last published one, which means we would spot $HOME/.terminfo making an appearance.
[11:34:20] <lotheac> then i got some extra hardware and things build faster for less money ;)
[11:48:21] <andyf> LeftWing - for when you are back, you can just run the sanity check bit with `pfexec ./build/build_miniroot rpool/kayak_image sanity` from inside the kayak checkout
[11:50:50] <lotheac> this is probably a long shot, but anyone here going to open source summit in tokyo next week?
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[17:05:31] <ENOMAD> [07:40] <Kurlon_> [16:11:57] "OmniOSCE - Now available as an EMACS module."
[17:05:31] <ENOMAD> We used to joke that RMS wouldn't rest until there was a vmunix.el.
[17:07:20] <Kurlon> hah
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[19:21:27] <xmerlin_> As I can see lx zones on smartos doesn't use swap anymore ...is it the same also on omnios?
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[20:49:31] <richlowe> xmerlin_: everything uses swap.
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[22:19:27] <xmerlin_> richlowe, no ...the LX zones have always swap usage = 0 and many processes generate core files when all the memory is exausted
[22:20:02] <xmerlin_> I didn't have such problem before ...only after updating the GZ
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[22:27:01] <LeftWing> I think the swap usage thing is part of a lie we tell because a non zero value there means something quite different on Linux
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top

   July 9, 2019  
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