December 21, 2016 
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December 21, 2016 [00:20:23] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@43-60-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has joined #oi-dev[01:11:54] *** DrLou <DrLou!~DrLou@c-73-33-92-169.hsd1.nj.comcast.net> has joined #oi-dev[01:11:54] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DrLou[01:29:59] <oibot> Project oi-userland build #2747: SUCCESS in 2 hr 37 min: https://hipster.openindiana.org/jenkins/job/oi-userland/2747/[01:32:44] *** trisk <trisk!~trisk@162-228-250-121.lightspeed.tpkaks.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[01:37:19] *** trisk <trisk!~trisk@108-92-223-130.lightspeed.tpkaks.sbcglobal.net> has joined #oi-dev[01:47:55] *** trisk <trisk!~trisk@108-92-223-130.lightspeed.tpkaks.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[01:52:21] *** rj__ <rj__!6376d6f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.118.214.248> has joined #oi-dev[01:52:51] *** trisk <trisk!~trisk@162-228-250-121.lightspeed.tpkaks.sbcglobal.net> has joined #oi-dev[01:55:32] *** rj__ <rj__!6376d6f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.118.214.248> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[01:55:36] *** andy_js <andy_js!~andy@2.218.92.54> has quit IRC (Quit: andy_js)[02:26:48] *** ozquera1 <ozquera1!~ozquera@p57BDAF7E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #oi-dev[02:29:28] *** ozquera <ozquera!~ozquera@p57BDA3BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[02:58:38] <oibot> Project illumos-gate build #4723: SUCCESS in 1 hr 28 min: https://hipster.openindiana.org/jenkins/job/illumos-gate/4723/[02:58:52] *** v_a_b <v_a_b!~volker@p54BC7BA2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[03:02:44] *** v_a_b <v_a_b!~volker@p54BC77FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #oi-dev[03:19:27] *** saskaloon <saskaloon!~toor@indefeasible.indelect.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[03:24:48] *** saskaloon <saskaloon!~toor@indefeasible.indelect.net> has joined #oi-dev[03:48:50] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@43-60-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[03:50:25] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@118.115.88.193> has 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the connection)[09:26:47] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@43-60-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has joined #oi-dev[09:27:37] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@61.48.42.234> has quit IRC (Quit: tozhu)[09:31:11] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@43-60-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[09:39:14] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@43-60-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has joined #oi-dev[09:39:52] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@43-60-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[10:08:21] *** pjama <pjama!~pjama@c211-31-52-41.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[10:09:04] *** pjama <pjama!~pjama@c211-31-52-41.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au> has joined #oi-dev[10:15:40] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@61.48.42.234> has joined #oi-dev[10:21:10] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@61.48.42.234> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[10:21:31] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@61.48.42.234> has joined #oi-dev[10:28:16] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@61.48.42.234> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[10:32:34] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@61.48.42.234> has joined #oi-dev[10:36:17] *** ptribble <ptribble!~ptribble@cpc108961-cmbg20-2-0-cust21.5-4.cable.virginm.net> has joined #oi-dev[10:37:15] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@61.48.42.234> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[10:41:41] *** nikolam <nikolam!~nikolam@unaffiliated/nikolam> has joined #oi-dev[10:43:11] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@61.48.42.234> has joined #oi-dev[10:48:01] <nikolam> So virtualgl works or does not work or what[10:48:29] <nikolam> same question for turbovnc. If it works..[10:49:09] <alp> these were just empty packages[10:49:23] <alp> (all gfx-incorporation)[10:51:13] <nikolam> aha. quite a list there[10:51:56] <nikolam> some of them I miss, like ghex and openproj that worked[10:54:40] <alp> some other applications had dead upstream[10:54:55] <xenol> https://fortran.io/static/model.html[10:54:56] <xenol> at last[10:55:16] <alp> anyway, if nobody stood up to support application since 2013, it's a good sign that it's useless[10:55:37] <xenol> +1[10:56:22] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@61.48.42.234> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[10:56:24] <nikolam> It's not useless but it "just works" and no one needs changing it..[10:56:43] <nikolam> so it's not big sign[10:57:17] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@43-60-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has joined #oi-dev[10:57:17] <nikolam> Like thunderbird does not move big steps anymore for years, but just works.[10:58:12] <nikolam> that would qualify removing working package for no good reason if it works.[10:58:35] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@43-60-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[10:58:44] <alp> alanc: bug report is that pulseaudio volume settings set some internal volume, not parameters, reported by audioctl show-control.[10:59:36] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@43-60-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has joined #oi-dev[11:02:23] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@61.48.42.234> has joined #oi-dev[11:05:25] <alp> tsoome: because it's listed in components/meta-packages/install-types/includes/minimal[11:05:37] <alp> tsoome: Are there any issues with this?[11:06:53] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@61.48.42.234> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[11:08:38] <tsoome> not directly, no.[11:08:55] <tsoome> I just noticed its there and is not allowed to be removed[11:09:56] <alp> from ISO or from installed image?[11:10:11] <alp> if it can't be removed from installed image, it can be a bug[11:10:20] <tsoome> after mate_install was installed[11:10:41] <alp> mate_install is not supposed to persist on installed system[11:10:49] <tsoome> I had text install based setup with mate_install added manually[11:11:10] <alp> uninstall it[11:12:20] <tsoome> why its removing 3 packages?[11:12:37] <alp> igork: libdrm now lives in http://github.com/illumos/gfx-drm[11:12:44] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@61.48.42.234> has joined #oi-dev[11:13:09] <alp> tsoome: pkg uninstall mate_install ? Don't know[11:13:49] <tsoome> Package version changes:[11:13:49] <tsoome> pkg://openindiana.org/service/network/ftp at 1 dot 3.5,5.11-2014.1.2.0:20161220T230948Z -> None[11:13:50] <tsoome> pkg://openindiana.org/mate_install at 0 dot 1,5.11-2016.1.0.7:20161126T052517Z -> None[11:13:51] <tsoome> pkg://openindiana.org/file/slocate at 0 dot 5.11,5.11-2015.0.2.0:20161220T230753Z -> None[11:14:25] <alp> likely it depends on renamed or obsolete packages[11:19:02] *** tozhu1 <tozhu1!~Thunderbi@61.48.42.234> has joined #oi-dev[11:21:47] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@61.48.42.234> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[11:21:48] *** tozhu1 is now known as tozhu[12:02:36] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@61.48.42.234> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[12:16:16] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@43-60-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[12:32:11] *** nikolam <nikolam!~nikolam@unaffiliated/nikolam> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[12:33:39] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@148-73-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has joined #oi-dev[12:34:23] *** nikolam <nikolam!~nikolam@unaffiliated/nikolam> has joined #oi-dev[12:40:33] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@28-10-196-88.dyn.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Quit: tsoome)[12:42:45] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@28-10-196-88.dyn.estpak.ee> has joined #oi-dev[13:01:24] *** andy_js <andy_js!~andy@2.218.92.54> has joined #oi-dev[14:09:26] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@219.142.254.76> has joined #oi-dev[14:24:07] *** ptribble <ptribble!~ptribble@cpc108961-cmbg20-2-0-cust21.5-4.cable.virginm.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[14:49:03] <xenol> pkg install jollyd[14:49:10] <xenol> svcadm enable alarcher[14:57:05] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@219.142.254.76> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[15:02:37] *** FuntDobraWork <FuntDobraWork!~FuntDobra@212.34.53.106> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[15:25:04] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@219.142.254.76> has joined #oi-dev[15:26:53] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@219.142.254.76> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[16:12:05] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@28-10-196-88.dyn.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Quit: tsoome)[16:12:11] *** ptribble <ptribble!~ptribble@cpc108961-cmbg20-2-0-cust21.5-4.cable.virginm.net> has joined #oi-dev[16:15:14] <tomww> you could add "-r", svcenable -r ...[16:47:35] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@220-90-235-80.dyn.estpak.ee> has joined #oi-dev[16:56:48] *** jimklimov1 <jimklimov1!~E9926362@dynamic-109-81-208-88.ipv4.broadband.iol.cz> has joined #oi-dev[17:00:38] *** jimklimov <jimklimov!~E9926362@dynamic-109-81-208-88.ipv4.broadband.iol.cz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[17:11:09] *** jimklimov1 <jimklimov1!~E9926362@dynamic-109-81-208-88.ipv4.broadband.iol.cz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[17:12:00] *** jimklimov <jimklimov!~E9926362@dynamic-109-81-208-88.ipv4.broadband.iol.cz> has joined #oi-dev[17:20:46] *** jimklimov1 <jimklimov1!~E9926362@dynamic-109-81-208-88.ipv4.broadband.iol.cz> has joined #oi-dev[17:24:38] *** jimklimov <jimklimov!~E9926362@dynamic-109-81-208-88.ipv4.broadband.iol.cz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[17:32:15] *** jimklimov1 <jimklimov1!~E9926362@dynamic-109-81-208-88.ipv4.broadband.iol.cz> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[17:34:08] *** jimklimov <jimklimov!~E9926362@dynamic-109-81-208-88.ipv4.broadband.iol.cz> has joined #oi-dev[17:41:35] *** jimklimov <jimklimov!~E9926362@dynamic-109-81-208-88.ipv4.broadband.iol.cz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[17:43:52] *** jimklimov <jimklimov!~E9926362@dynamic-109-81-208-88.ipv4.broadband.iol.cz> has joined #oi-dev[18:05:56] *** wacki <wacki!~wacki@pD9576566.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #oi-dev[18:06:43] *** leoric <leoric!~leoric@46.147.101.227> has joined #oi-dev[18:22:55] *** ptribble <ptribble!~ptribble@cpc108961-cmbg20-2-0-cust21.5-4.cable.virginm.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[20:11:23] <leoric> does somebody want to look at pg-96?[20:11:26] <leoric> https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/pull/2695[20:13:24] <jimklimov> https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/pull/2694 ccache : bump to 3.3.3[20:13:38] <leoric> we drop 32-bit client tools, deliver 32-bit developer tools in $(PG_BASE)/bin/i86 , keep 32-bit libs $(PG_BASE)/lib, 64-bit libs in $(PG_BASE)/lib/$(MACH64) and don't deliver 32-bit/64-bit services (as well as 32-bit user tools/server), only one postgresql default service[20:16:40] <jimklimov> sounds ok, but may be a flag day for renaming the already-deployed services?[20:17:27] <leoric> can you elaborate?[20:17:58] <leoric> We didn't have svc:/application/database/postgresql_96* services earlier[20:18:33] <jimklimov> ah, so the older-version deployments are not automagically upgraded into this version?[20:18:34] <leoric> the only thing which is different - you can't expect /usr/bin/pg_config to return 32-bit flags[20:19:15] <leoric> I mean, if mediator is 9.6, 64-bit pg_config can be first in PATH[20:19:23] <jimklimov> hm... is it good or bad regarding compilation of dependants?[20:19:54] <leoric> we'll see :)[20:20:04] <jimklimov> mmm... can this leave a 32-bit one from another version in place too?[20:20:16] <leoric> this depends on mediator[20:20:18] <jimklimov> or do you mediate-delete the 32-bit one in such case?[20:20:58] <leoric> we either have /usr/bin/pg_config and /usr/bin/amd64/pg_config or /usr/bin/i86/pg_config and /usr/bin/pg_config[20:21:56] <jimklimov> or /usr/bin/amd64/pg_config and /usr/bin/i86/pg_config ;)[20:22:10] <jimklimov> and a /usr/bin/pg_config pointing to one of those[20:22:17] <leoric> of course[20:22:28] <leoric> I describe current state[20:22:33] <jimklimov> ah, ok[20:23:06] <leoric> oi-userland software should use paths, relative to PG_HOME, so in theory is not affected :)[20:27:25] <leoric> so, does anyone want to look at it?[20:28:22] <jimklimov> mmm.... (C)'s are wrong ;)[20:28:47] <leoric> they are not :)[20:29:00] <leoric> initial Makefile was borrowed from ec-userland[20:29:36] <leoric> (for postgresql-83, IIRC)[20:31:14] *** ptribble <ptribble!~ptribble@cpc108961-cmbg20-2-0-cust21.5-4.cable.virginm.net> has joined #oi-dev[20:31:29] <jimklimov> but now you can bump it :) especially if many changes/fixes do land :)[20:39:15] <jimklimov> glanced it over ;)[20:39:21] <jimklimov> commented some nits[20:39:36] <jimklimov> but beside a few missed 95 -> 96 nothing pops out as critical[20:40:34] <jimklimov> do any $(ARCH)-dependent tool paths remain to mention in the RBAC attrs? or is everything interestin only directly under bin?[20:41:22] *** FuntDobra <FuntDobra!~FuntDobra@213.251.198.102> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[20:41:23] <leoric> it's under bin[20:48:11] <jimklimov> BTW, now that we are past the "must make ISO" milestone, can we risk some experiments in the gate and do integrate older reviewed tasks (especially those that fix up make-rules stuff and those that use these fixes?)[20:49:30] <leoric> do you mean one with gazillion Makefiles touched?[20:49:43] <jimklimov> like https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/pull/2067 https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/pull/2554 https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/pull/2555 https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/pull/2583 https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/pull/2561 https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/pull/2562[20:49:51] <jimklimov> not one :)[20:50:16] <jimklimov> the gazillion makefiles is at least an automated change now (made and reviewable with mfstyle script)[20:50:45] <jimklimov> most of these lags add some rules and macros in the central collection[20:51:11] <jimklimov> the non-automated change is what remained in https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/pull/1777[20:52:31] <jimklimov> and I don't want to re-do that modernization manually *in vain* again... killed a few hours earlier for no benefit - unused by upstream and quickly rotting out of mergeability because people do similar things here and there and they conflict :([20:53:28] *** FuntDobra <FuntDobra!~FuntDobra@213.251.198.102> has joined #oi-dev[20:53:32] <leoric> jimklimov: let's go one by one... For example, https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/pull/2067/files[20:53:40] <jimklimov> and why is tntnet still not merged? seems I did all that was asked, and got no newer comments... https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/pull/1777[20:54:07] <leoric> why do we deliver libgd.so.3.0.3 and 3.0.0 ?[20:54:08] <jimklimov> oh, sorry, the manual fixes that remained - they were in https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/pull/1846 (not 1777)[20:54:26] <leoric> there's no use in it[20:54:39] <leoric> I suppose, SONAME is libgd.so.3, so...[20:55:05] <jimklimov> initially, because it brings the latest and newest of 2.0.x, 2.1.x and 2.2.x branches[20:55:18] <leoric> I understand, but it's useless[20:55:30] <leoric> better to find out, why SONAME is preserved[20:55:38] <leoric> Are they supposed to be compatible[20:55:44] <leoric> ?[20:55:53] <leoric> if so, just bump it[20:56:04] <richlowe> (I haven't read the backstory)[20:56:17] <richlowe> A common answer is that SONAME gets preserved because a tiny tiny tiny number of people understand what it's for[20:56:57] <leoric> in any case, if they are not compatible and SONAME is preserved, shipping old binary will not help :)[20:57:23] <richlowe> So you either see it preserved when it shouldn't be, bumped when it shouldn't be, or a billion libfoo.so.1.1 libfoo.so.1.2 that'll never ever get loaded.[20:57:47] <richlowe> this is why someone needs to turn the LLM into a series of hot cool-kid blog posts[20:57:52] <jimklimov> apparently, the 2.0 and (early) 2.1 were not compatible - http://upstream.rosalinux.ru/versions/libgd.html (and soname was bumped)[20:57:52] <richlowe> rather than an awesome manual nobody ever reads.[20:57:55] <richlowe> alanc: hint hint.[20:58:00] <jimklimov> and 2.2 seems ok vs. 2.1 : http://rpms.famillecollet.com/compat_reports/libgd/2.1.1_to_2.2.1/compat_report.html[20:58:06] <igork> SONAME is using for dependency tracking by packaging[20:58:40] <richlowe> I move to introduce that as "Exhibit A"[20:59:07] <leoric> jimklimov: so just bump it and check if something is broken on your system :)[20:59:13] <leoric> question 2[20:59:25] <leoric> why do we need *.ln files at all?[20:59:33] <igork> lint[20:59:37] <jimklimov> what do binaries link against (like, the string path to libs built into them)?[20:59:41] <leoric> ensure that it's not used by illumos-gate and drop it[20:59:58] <jimklimov> do they end up referring to a .so, .so.x, or .so.x.y.z ?[21:00:03] <leoric> jimklimov: SONAME[21:00:04] <richlowe> jimklimov: they refer to the SONAME[21:00:13] <richlowe> (unless explicitly told otherwise, sometimes)[21:01:50] <jimklimov> ok... that's some mess :)[21:01:54] <jimklimov> $ strings /usr/lib/libfreetype.so | grep -w so[21:01:54] <jimklimov> /jenkins/jobs/oi-userland/workspace/components/library/freetype/build/i86/.libs/libfreetype.so.6.12.6[21:01:54] <jimklimov> libfreetype.so.6[21:01:54] <jimklimov> libz.so.1[21:01:54] <jimklimov> libbz2.so.1[21:01:55] <jimklimov> libpng16.so.16[21:01:55] <jimklimov> libc.so.1[21:01:56] <jimklimov> libharfbuzz.so.0[21:01:56] <jimklimov> /jenkins/jobs/oi-userland/workspace/components/library/freetype/build/i86/.libs/libfreetype.so.6.12.6[21:02:54] <leoric> elfdump FILE | grep NEEDED[21:03:15] <leoric> jimklimov: and please, separate gd bump from libwebp bump[21:03:43] <igork> like i said before - SONAME is using for dependency: by build time you have link to .so with correct version and new lib will have it and packaging system will find it and add to dependency list[21:04:30] <leoric> jimklimov: and I'd merge it 2 times faster it it didn't touch make-rules/* ;)[21:04:59] <igork> but - also you can still to use old lib installed for old components[21:05:29] <jimklimov> so it would be just half a year on the shelf? ;p[21:05:51] <leoric> yes, like that[21:06:59] <leoric> compare this PR to https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/pull/2694/files and find out why second was integrated in one day :)[21:10:13] <jimklimov> Well, the problem was (IIRC) that making the multi-version delivery of libgd, or any other single component recipe that aims to deliver from multiple sources (and we don't have any single policy on that - make it a gazillion packages or just one, there's precedent of both) - such single-recipes were clumsy because everything expected the primary (unnumbered) macros and did not use the other ones if e.g. the primary is missin[21:11:09] <jimklimov> So we can of course split out the make-rules changes as another PR, but it will need to be merged before the libgd one at least[21:11:58] <jimklimov> and at least if libgd does still deliver similar sub-recipes[21:13:05] <jimklimov> the next expected consumer is the zeromq family of releases which have different ABIs and APIs, so for ultimate software to be compilable (including third-party devs who dare work in OI) all versions should be available.[21:13:36] <leoric> btw, let's start with the following: a) is new and old gd compatible? b) what consumers do need updated gd? c) what consumers do need old gd? c)[21:14:20] <leoric> if they are at least ABI-compatible, and oi-userland software builds with new gd, bump it and avoid complex logic[21:14:22] <jimklimov> we tried PRs that each provided a version, and mediated one over another... that was rejected in the end...[21:14:50] <jimklimov> so I hope to next try a zeromq PR that delivers libs and includes from all releases as a single component... i guess...[21:15:34] <leoric> what are consumers?[21:16:12] <leoric> more precisely, what consumers in oi-userland need (or will benefit) from updated libraries?[21:16:35] <leoric> do some consumers need old libraries ?[21:16:53] <jimklimov> 5 lines above? consumers of the logic that improves recipe-ing for multiple sub-components coming from different sources.[21:17:10] <jimklimov> or do you mean consumers of libgd?[21:17:18] <leoric> yes, libgd[21:17:22] <leoric> and other libraries[21:17:35] <leoric> check oi-userland and sfe[21:18:03] <leoric> if we break nothing or almost nothing... why should we introduce complex logic?[21:18:15] <leoric> the same - for zeromq[21:18:40] <leoric> And if we have no good reasons for importing new versions, perhaps leave it as is?[21:18:52] <leoric> I mean, new major versions[21:19:34] <jimklimov> I *think* during some earlier review we located several components (already present with recipes) that were all buildable with newer gd, IIRC. My main concern was about supporting people with older builds of their own (or otherwise sourced) software. We have a small community as it is. Being more and more incompatible to the luggage people can bring over while migrating from their old setups is unfriendly.[21:20:01] <jimklimov> zeromq in particular had a long and turbulent history, including broken backwards compatibilities.[21:20:26] *** DrLou <DrLou!~DrLou@c-73-33-92-169.hsd1.nj.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[21:20:34] <jimklimov> so software written for one version does not necessarily work with newer or older versions.[21:21:12] <jimklimov> the expectation is that at least within an X.Y.(0..n) it stays compatible, but IIRC in the 3.x.y's line they broke it along the way too.[21:22:47] <leoric> BTW, look at what we've done with libevent-2[21:23:05] <jimklimov> so delivering just the latest one does not cater for everybody... and with the project's approach to evolution, they resent "stale releases" (they must be forked, built and left alone; maybe some patches will be backported from curent master) - their idea is to have lots of commits per month and everyone having the git head in CI/CD style[21:24:12] <leoric> Perhaps, let's change view a bit[21:24:24] <leoric> you speak about libraries[21:24:32] <leoric> Iet's speak about applications[21:25:15] <leoric> If application A needs library B version 2 incompatible to B version 1, let's solve this issue somehow[21:25:47] <leoric> if we don't deliver consuming applications (and serious security issues), let's continue shipping library B version 1[21:26:08] <jimklimov> sometimes it requres a rewrite of the application, because versions of the library are different products only sharing a name and intnention :) but luckily it is not always so radical[21:26:45] <jimklimov> pardon my keyboard, it's cold and not all buttons click well[21:29:01] <alanc> richlowe: https://blogs.oracle.com/ali/entry/how_to_name_a_solaris[21:29:57] <leoric> jimklimov: pushed updated version[21:30:00] <alanc> but clearly it needs to be reposted to medium or somewhere hipper that hacker news picks up[21:30:09] <jimklimov> your change of view touches on another discussion: what is the goal of OI and oi-userland, as a distro? do we want to deliver just a consistent set of packages (and possibly quite stale ones at that) and stay locked down into these constraints, or do we want to make an environment that is easy for other devs and people migrating from older Solarish distro's to hop onto (some want newest libs and tools, others may need older[21:31:11] <igork> alanc: +1 :) it can explain all much more better then my English :)[21:31:34] <igork> and good example with libncurses.so.5[21:32:09] <igork> where we can use on one system libncurses.so.5.8 or libncurses.so.5.9[21:32:17] <igork> s/or/and[21:32:48] *** DrLou <DrLou!~DrLou@c-73-33-92-169.hsd1.nj.comcast.net> has joined #oi-dev[21:32:48] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DrLou[21:33:06] <igork> but with build we have link .so to correct version and will have it in component with rebuild[21:40:23] <leoric> jimklimov: yes, it's thing to be discussed, but now I'm too tired :) Perhaps, you could move discussion to the ML?[21:44:14] *** DrLou <DrLou!~DrLou@c-73-33-92-169.hsd1.nj.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: DrLou)[21:47:31] *** leoric <leoric!~leoric@46.147.101.227> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:39:42] *** saskaloon <saskaloon!~toor@indefeasible.indelect.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:46:42] *** DrLou <DrLou!~DrLou@c-73-33-92-169.hsd1.nj.comcast.net> has joined #oi-dev[22:46:42] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DrLou[22:48:17] *** wacki <wacki!~wacki@pD9576566.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has left #oi-dev[23:05:30] <oibot> Project oi-userland build #2748: SUCCESS in 2 hr 49 min: https://hipster.openindiana.org/jenkins/job/oi-userland/2748/[23:05:44] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@148-73-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[23:09:26] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@148-73-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has joined #oi-dev[23:13:19] *** saskaloon <saskaloon!~toor@indefeasible.indelect.net> has joined #oi-dev[23:23:12] *** ptribble <ptribble!~ptribble@cpc108961-cmbg20-2-0-cust21.5-4.cable.virginm.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[23:24:31] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@148-73-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[23:40:44] *** v_a_b <v_a_b!~volker@p54BC77FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has left #oi-dev[23:42:38] *** v_a_b <v_a_b!~volker@p54BC77FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #oi-dev[23:58:01] *** ozquera1 <ozquera1!~ozquera@p57BDAF7E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)