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[01:02:07] <oibot> Project oi-userland build #2712: FAILURE in 2 hr 16 min: https://hipster.openindiana.org/jenkins/job/oi-userland/2712/
[02:29:17] <oibot> Project illumos-gate build #4707: SUCCESS in 1 hr 23 min: https://hipster.openindiana.org/jenkins/job/illumos-gate/4707/
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[07:20:19] <nikolam> when switching tabs in mate-terminal, selected terminal doesn't get the focus until it is clicked inside tab
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[07:58:31] <Agnar> moin
[07:59:03] <oibot> Yippee, build fixed!
[07:59:03] <oibot> Project oi-userland build #2713: FIXED in 2 hr 28 min: https://hipster.openindiana.org/jenkins/job/oi-userland/2713/
[08:04:09] <nikolam> sure it is Agnar
[08:11:29] <Agnar> it wasn't me! I promise!
[08:11:31] <Agnar> :)
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[09:01:48] <alp> xenol: hi, here? What do you think about switching default gnu tls to 3.4?
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[10:54:15] <xenol> alp: if it doesn't break anything and works
[10:54:27] <xenol> switching to openssl 1.1.0 would be great =)
[10:54:43] <alp> :)
[10:55:17] <alp> did you have time to talk to Alasdairrr about new infrastructure?
[10:55:52] <xenol> not yet
[10:56:19] <xenol> I have a meetings until 14:00, will write him an email afterwards
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[12:54:09] <oibot> Project oi-userland build #2714: SUCCESS in 2 hr 28 min: https://hipster.openindiana.org/jenkins/job/oi-userland/2714/
[13:01:54] <alp> xenol: Do we agree to avoid auto_home creation during installation and just deliver user with home in /export/home/user ?
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[13:23:04] <alp> or do we want to go further and completely remove /home auto_dir layout, creating user home directories just in /home ?
[13:24:07] <Woodstock> i'd prefer if you didn't change that at all :->
[13:25:03] <alp> I want to avoid cases like https://www.illumos.org/issues/7616
[13:25:33] <jimklimov> I am "for" the old system
[13:25:46] <Woodstock> well, the bug doesn't really explain what went wrong
[13:25:56] <jimklimov> local homedirs natively present under /export (may come from various pools)
[13:26:00] <alp> jimklimov: : with auto_home layout?
[13:26:06] <jimklimov> and automounted from local or remote store into /home
[13:26:16] <jimklimov> there ARE cases for NSF-backed homes ;)
[13:26:28] <jimklimov> NFS
[13:27:09] <jimklimov> The default might be like
[13:27:09] <jimklimov> * localhost:/export/home/&
[13:27:09] <jimklimov> +auto_home
[13:27:22] <alp> please, no
[13:27:35] <jimklimov> or just the old default as long as it works
[13:27:37] <alp> this will generate tons of noice, we've checked
[13:28:21] <tsoome> what noise?
[13:28:23] <tsoome> why?
[13:28:32] <jimklimov> is autofs running? are pools all mounted?
[13:28:44] <jimklimov> IIRC NFS is not required for localhost:
[13:28:56] <jimklimov> it loops back to local fs then, or used to
[13:29:33] <tsoome> local host (::1, 127.0.0.1, my ip) cases are all using lofs mounts.
[13:30:36] <alp> cd /home ; ls nonexistent
[13:30:56] <alp> some or ls *
[13:31:06] <alp> some scripts do something similar
[13:31:16] <tsoome> ls * does only list what you have
[13:31:17] <alp> it shows as Dec 5 15:31:06 pyhalov.cc.rsu.ru automountd[26016]: [ID 834250 daemon.error] Mount of /export/home/* on /home/*: No such file or directory
[13:31:21] <Woodstock> then the scripts should be fixed
[13:31:42] <tsoome> ah, thats bug in automount, it should not use *
[13:32:13] <tsoome> only valid name should be used
[13:33:02] <tsoome> well.. ok, its a bit more complicated to tell what is valid and whatnot:)
[13:33:21] <alp> somehow I see Mount of /export/home/dmesg on /home/dmesg: No such file or directory
[13:33:53] <tsoome> you have . in PATH?
[13:33:58] <alp> no
[13:34:07] <alp> but perhaps I've mistyped somewhere
[13:34:43] <tsoome> well, the good point is, should automount log the no such file or directory as default.
[13:35:03] <tsoome> perhaps it should log it only at some debug level
[13:35:10] <alp> likely
[13:35:29] <tsoome> as such logs are mostly spam anyhow
[13:35:35] <alp> another issue is absent of ~ on early boot
[13:35:40] <alp> absence
[13:35:54] <alp> should ssh depend on auto_home?
[13:36:05] <alp> what if we have issues with this service?
[13:37:07] <tsoome> early boot is early boot in any case. and as principle, you have to make decision there, if you want to delay login till some services are up, or you want to risk that some resources are not yet available.
[13:37:37] <alp> I wouldn't delay login, as it could do it impossible
[13:37:44] <tsoome> against issues, the dependency (if set) should be soft.
[13:38:08] <tsoome> well, it is possible. gdm (used to) be run ar run level 3/multi user milestone.
[13:38:49] <tsoome> also you can set dependencies, but it is another matter if you really want to.
[13:39:41] <tsoome> just as with windows - you get the login after boot relatively quick, but the actual log in will take long if the services are still starting.
[13:39:43] <alp> gdm is another issue :) I mean, having delayed login on console can be fine.
[13:40:04] <tsoome> yea but ssh is not much different
[13:40:05] <alp> at least you can boot -s and in any case you see what is happening
[13:40:25] <alp> if you don't have console access , it's much more unpleasant
[13:40:34] <tsoome> ssh already has to check for local file systems and network at least.
[13:40:57] <tsoome> and without network, the ssh is just as unpleasant…
[13:42:26] <alp> in any case we have https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/blob/oi/hipster/components/network/openssh/files/ssh.xml#L53
[13:44:11] <tsoome> IMO, the root of the problem about automounter and useradd is that the defaults do not match.
[13:44:49] <tsoome> IF you have /home managed by the automounter default, your useradd *must* set up the auto_home entries.
[13:45:32] <alp> yes, this is the problem
[13:45:49] <tsoome> if you want useradd to default to not update auto_home, perhaps you should not deliver /home managed by automounter.
[13:46:02] <tsoome> its the consistency and expectations issue.
[13:46:48] <tsoome> we caoul deliver automounter service disabled as default, and admin can decide to enable it.
[13:46:51] <tsoome> could*
[13:47:33] <tsoome> in sense that should not be like huge issue as *most* of the people are probably not using it, or are not even heard about it.
[13:48:12] <alp> we have https://github.com/OpenIndiana/illumos-gate/commit/70501a0c9a45806dbe4a81c2195b2647fa982f79
[13:48:24] <alp> which was not integrated
[13:48:46] <tsoome> yea, i remember you were working on it
[13:48:53] <tsoome> why it was not integrated?
[13:49:22] <tsoome> ah, and btw, how is the /etc/.login?:D
[13:49:22] <alp> I've just looked at it , but never submitted it
[13:49:27] <tsoome> ah, ok
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[13:55:15] <alp> tsoome: I think noone from advocates looked at it
[13:55:55] <tsoome> we have Woodstock :P
[13:56:00] <tsoome> hehe
[13:57:34] <alp> so, as I understand, basically we have 2 choices: 1) disable auto-mounter and ship homes in /home , 2) fix useradd to edit auto_home dir or 2a) fix auto_mounter to be less verbose and use * in auto_homes .
[13:58:15] <tsoome> even without * you still want automounter to be silenced
[13:59:01] <tsoome> there was something walking over /home tree probing those names (I suddenly remembered seeing it as well)
[13:59:40] <igork> well, i can do not install autofs on my VM
[13:59:57] <tsoome> Im not really sure we should populate /home even without automounter, as it would imply setting mountpoint for rpool/export/home
[14:00:20] <xenol> alp: it is traditional for solaris, so I would keep it
[14:00:35] <xenol> if we turned it of, we should also make /home/user the default directory
[14:01:11] <alp> In 2) I dislike in https://github.com/OpenIndiana/illumos-gate/commit/70501a0c9a45806dbe4a81c2195b2647fa982f79 that we try to parse and edit /etc/auto_home, which has a rather free format....
[14:02:43] <tsoome> there is also the issue that if you are going to mess up /export/home, you will get many annoyed people from solaris side:D
[14:02:45] <alp> for example, if we have '* localhost:/export/home/&' in auto_home
[14:05:11] <tsoome> also, we do not have to use /home even with automouner service disabled. my osx home is in /Users, my fbsd home is in /usr/home, we do not have to use /home if its not set up for automounter just to please some linux loonies.
[14:05:46] <xenol> tsoome: OS X is a different story
[14:05:51] <tsoome> its not
[14:05:53] <xenol> /usr/home on freebsd? /home
[14:07:06] <alp> the patched useradd seems to create unexpected config
[14:07:12] <tsoome> tsoome@freebsd:~ % pwd
[14:07:12] <tsoome> /usr/home/tsoome
[14:07:32] <tsoome> it was created with defaults on system install.
[14:07:50] <xenol> weird, I remember to have /home/foo on freebsd systems
[14:07:56] <xenol> whatever
[14:08:15] <alp> when you select separate FS for /home
[14:08:21] <alp> perhaps, it was a link
[14:08:31] <tsoome> home -> usr/home
[14:08:35] <xenol> no idea, I never checked that ;)
[14:08:36] <tsoome> symlink
[14:08:37] <xenol> ah
[14:09:07] <xenol> alp: what's the reason for having this debate btw?
[14:09:15] <xenol> any problem with the automounter?
[14:09:16] <tsoome> but, the problem with re-using the /home is that it will mess you up once you are going to enable automounter
[14:09:35] <alp> xenol: https://www.illumos.org/issues/7616
[14:10:23] <alp> I think we get additional complexity without evident gain with this setup
[14:11:05] <alp> and one issue which would be good to fix - inconsistency of initial user setup and other users
[14:12:13] <xenol> how did solaris fix this?
[14:12:49] <jimklimov> Fell out from discussion. Regarding early boot - I do fix up ssh SMF on my systems to start as soon as possible and not wait for mounts, homes, etc. Netwokring is needed, but not much more. Specifically to fix issues with `zfs mount -a` bombing out on not-empty mountpoints etc.
[14:14:37] <alp> xenol: On my S11 setup I don't see auto_home setup, user has home in /export/home/user
[14:14:53] <xenol> did they nuke automounter?
[14:14:57] <alp> I mean, auto mounter is running
[14:15:18] <alp> but /etc/auto_home has just +auto_home and that's all
[14:15:56] <xenol> yeah, but if you change home dir, +auto_home becomes useless
[14:16:30] <tsoome> +auto_home is for name service referral only. if you have just local files, it does not do anything.
[14:17:09] <alp> also useradd defaults to /export/home
[14:17:11] <jimklimov> yup, but if you have all accounts in LDAP it is another matter
[14:17:19] <xenol> let me check one thing
[14:17:20] <alp> not /home
[14:17:54] <jimklimov> or if you `useradd` an account to define the numbers locally, but then want it to use `/home/$USERNAME` pointing automatically to NFS common dump
[14:18:14] <jimklimov> e.g. * centralnfs:/export/home/&
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[14:19:08] <jimklimov> although likely the needed auto_* links will be part of LDAP in this usecase (and recognzed by ldap/client)
[14:20:24] <xenol> ok, I mistaken +auto_home with actual automap entry
[14:20:41] <xenol> I have home configured in /home and home dir in /export/home
[14:21:00] <xenol> but I specified -d when creating the user
[14:21:11] <xenol> (I am using lofs mount from gz to ngz)
[14:22:16] <xenol> so I am fine with the following setup: 1) disable automounter and home dir is in /export/home/user
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[14:22:49] <alp> disable automounter service by default?
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[14:23:47] <xenol> that shall help, shouldn't it?
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[15:01:33] <alp> xenol: something like https://github.com/pyhalov/slim_source/compare/no-auto-home?expand=1
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[15:18:38] <alp> now testing https://github.com/OpenIndiana/slim_source/pull/19
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[15:28:13] <xenol> I would keep the auto_home stuff, only disable autofs
[15:28:37] <xenol> but not sure if that would be a source of confusion if people turned autofs on
[15:28:47] <xenol> richlowe: what's your opinion on that?
[15:29:33] <alp> what do you mean? Enable auto_home config, but disable service?
[15:30:12] <xenol> yes
[15:30:18] <xenol> just disable the service
[15:30:32] <xenol> and modify the home dir
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[15:30:58] <alp> seems inconsistent :)
[15:31:24] <tsoome> with useradd using /export/home/username, we do not need to disable automounter (but we can).
[15:32:18] <xenol> tsoome: if that's the case
[15:32:18] <tsoome> the bad combination is automounter running and useradd trying mkdir in /home - thats no go.
[15:32:23] <alp> Yes, I'd just removed default config, without touching automounter
[15:33:15] <tsoome> another bit bad combination is automounter disabled and useradd doing mkdir /home/username — thats because if you will enable automounter, your /home is busted.
[15:33:35] <xenol> 15:31 < tsoome> with useradd using /export/home/username, we do not need to disable automounter (but we can). -> I like this
[15:33:37] <nikolam> if by default, installed user won't use that thing and just use /export/home, like any new user, that sounds fine.
[15:34:22] <tsoome> the least surprise is just as alp wrote - have useradd managing /export/home and automounter running.
[15:34:23] <xenol> alp: inconsistent in what sense? It's a hack more less, but it works ;)
[15:34:58] <xenol> but what about auto_home entries? are those bits supposed be removed?
[15:35:03] <alp> inconsistent in having /home/user entries for users with HOME set to /export/home/user
[15:35:21] <alp> the change doesn't affect installed systems
[15:35:25] <nikolam> I don't want to see that /home thing for default user anymore, if one wants it one can configure it for himself
[15:35:38] <alp> +1
[15:36:53] <alp> xenol: new systems will have just '+auto_home' in /etc/auto_home
[15:37:15] <alp> old systems will not be affected (only by more sane useradd behavior)
[15:37:17] <tsoome> as long as user* commands default to usable actions (that is, not attempting to mkdir/rmdir in /home while automounter is running), we have working setup.
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[15:47:36] <jimklimov> so why not have the automounter always (so /home/* always exists for users already defined and having a home), and user* working on /export/home/* always?
[15:48:19] <jimklimov> note that some setups hide the existing user/home populace (chmod 711 /home /export/home ; chmod 771 or 771 /export/home/*)
[15:48:55] <jimklimov> this sort of matches the invisibility achieved by autohome for undefined users ;)
[15:49:33] <alp> I consider auto mounter setup is a task of administrator. We don't want to guess for him.
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[15:53:43] <oibot> Project oi-userland build #2715: SUCCESS in 2 hr 42 min: https://hipster.openindiana.org/jenkins/job/oi-userland/2715/
[15:59:30] <alp> illumos-gcc was updated to gcc-4.4.4-il-4
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[16:18:28] <alp> gwr, xenol: do you think that we are ready to integrate gfx-drm? If so, I could create one more test ISO for people to test it before integration...
[16:19:31] <xenol> I think so, ISO would be good
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[18:33:52] <oibot> Project oi-userland build #2716: SUCCESS in 2 hr 40 min: https://hipster.openindiana.org/jenkins/job/oi-userland/2716/
[18:36:31] <Woodstock> stupid lint
[18:49:54] <Woodstock> alp: apparently there is a bug in lint regarding that glib warning. IIRC lint is supposed to ignore /usr/include already, but it doesn't, and -errhdr=no%/usr/include/glib-2.0 and variants seem to have no effect
[18:50:47] <Woodstock> alp: so just disabling that particular lint check as you suggested may be the right solution
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   December 5, 2016  
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