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[00:16:21] <kinaeda> hi?
[00:21:13] <peda__> hi kinaeda
[00:23:48] <kinaeda> hey, interesting project here
[00:24:10] <peda__> yeah :)
[00:24:26] <peda__> you're new to JNode? Did you allready try to run it?
[00:24:33] <peda__> or want to help?
[00:24:50] <kinaeda> i've been watching it for a while. tried booting a vm image but i was waiting an hour and it went nowhere :P
[00:26:32] <kinaeda> I'd be interested in helping out but dunno if it's beyond my ability or not. I can code in ASM, Java, PHP and a few other languages.
[00:26:51] <peda__> well, Java is needed most
[00:27:30] <kinaeda> of course :P are u the head of the project?
[00:27:32] <peda__> there are many open topics that need help. But it's always a bit hard to get into JNode as the code base is huge
[00:27:43] <peda__> no
[00:28:02] <kinaeda> yea I was looking at the source
[00:28:30] <peda__> if we have something like a head of the project it's now levente (lsantha on irc) as the project founder is quite busy with real live
[00:28:42] <kinaeda> ah
[00:28:59] <peda__> if you're interessted in getting started with JNode I suggest to write a little console application
[00:29:11] <peda__> there are some open commands that need implementing on our forum
[00:29:36] <peda__> and it has the advantage to get known to the shell, the plugin framework and compilation
[00:29:43] <kinaeda> yea
[00:30:14] <kinaeda> anyway I can improve the boot time or should I try installing it to a hdd :P
[00:30:35] <peda__> no, I guess it was due to your setup
[00:30:45] <peda__> which VM did you use and which setup?
[00:30:50] <peda__> and which version of JNode
[00:31:07] <peda__> and what is your host setup and which OS do you use?
[00:31:08] <peda__> :)
[00:31:09] <kinaeda> I used VirtualBox and the latest JNode
[00:31:17] <kinaeda> using ubuntu
[00:31:44] <peda__> ok, Zigara had problems with virtualbox too, I had too (it was very very slow)
[00:31:50] <peda__> which CPU do you use?
[00:32:07] <peda__> as for hardware virtualized CPUs kvm is a great VM!
[00:32:26] <kinaeda> i only hav a 1.8ghz celeron m
[00:32:34] <peda__> ok
[00:32:41] <peda__> is vmware player an option for you?
[00:32:55] <peda__> you get it for free but its not open source
[00:33:05] <kinaeda> if I boot into windows I cud get it
[00:33:18] <peda__> there's a free linux version too
[00:33:29] <peda__> that's what I used before my switch to kvm
[00:33:41] <kinaeda> wats the current spec requirements for jnode?
[00:34:16] <peda__> well, celeron 1,8 should be good enough, most important is the amount of RAM
[00:34:33] <peda__> and you should have at least 1GB for JNode to work on it
[00:34:49] <peda__> you can boot it with quite less but it's a pain for developing imho
[00:35:52] <kinaeda> i hav 1.5gb ram :P I mostly develop with integration and low memory usage in mind coz my comp sucks so much :P
[00:36:04] <peda__> hehe
[00:36:24] <peda__> ok, but you still could give ~700MB to your VM
[00:36:29] <peda__> which is good enough
[00:36:35] <peda__> the problem is with virtualbox
[00:37:39] <peda__> for some reason they do not play good together, compared to native execution kvm is 1,5times, vmware ~2times, virtualbox 5-10times, qemu 50?times as slow
[00:38:01] <peda__> these are not real messured numbers, just to give an impression on the speed of different VMs
[00:38:13] <kinaeda> yea
[00:38:34] <peda__> and this estimation is only true if you boot JNode in it
[00:38:47] <kinaeda> I'll redownload jnode now and try vmware
[00:38:50] <peda__> e.g. for a linux guest I experienced virtual box to be faster as vmware
[00:38:56] <peda__> ok cool
[00:39:05] <kinaeda> also, why is it called jnode? :P
[00:39:30] <peda__> Java New Operation System Design Effort
[00:39:37] <kinaeda> ah lol
[00:40:48] <kinaeda> I don't get how drivers can be written in Java
[00:41:38] <peda__> there are basically two "concepts" for that
[00:41:43] <peda__> we have a Unsafe class
[00:42:01] <peda__> which interfaces directly to short asm code that does "special" things
[00:42:44] <peda__> and we have a set of "unboxed" classes which get treated in a special way by the compiler: This basically is the class Address which can be compared to a "void *" pointer
[00:43:15] <peda__> and we have a permission system to prevent access to these classes. Only core classes may use it
[00:43:59] <kinaeda> ahh, good stuff. If u need my help I'd mostly be able to code applications and networking stuff, I can do low level but its not my cup of tea :P
[00:45:14] <peda__> well, that fully depends on your skills and on what you like to do. As I said, there is much work todo, bugs to search, bugs to fix, TODOs, FIXMEs, javadoc, documentation,...
[00:45:18] <peda__> :)
[00:49:46] <kinaeda> well I've built an mmorpg in java and several web developer tools so I'm pretty confident I can help out somewhere
[00:50:04] <peda__> yeah cool
[00:50:46] <kinaeda> let me just try boot it first :P
[00:51:17] <peda__> btw, one very usefull but "simple" thing is to try different applications in JNode. There's the "application packager tool" by Fabien (you can find an explanation on the forum) and let us know if it worked or not
[00:51:38] <peda__> in most cases all bigger applications show some odd behavours
[00:51:58] <peda__> and this makes us find bugs.
[00:51:59] <kinaeda> I see
[00:52:23] <peda__> and the pro-work is to find the bug and submit a patch of course :)
[00:52:35] <kinaeda> oh, I'm confident I can do this: http://www.jnode.org/node/802
[00:53:07] <kinaeda> I just wonder would the apache mina package work well with jnode
[00:53:51] <peda__> I'm sure no one tried yet
[00:54:23] <peda__> we have a >99% API coverage for jdk1.6 and we pass a huge number of mauve API tests
[00:54:55] <peda__> but most applications call one of the not working ones at one or another point
[00:54:59] <kinaeda> cool. I'm just wondering is apache mina pure java
[00:55:11] <peda__> the larger the app, the more likely you call one
[00:55:29] <peda__> ah ok, it it is not, there's no way yet to get it working in JNode
[00:55:30] <kinaeda> how many people work on jnode?
[00:56:42] <kinaeda> I think it is, just rooting through the source. does jnode support jar files?
[00:56:49] <peda__> If I did count correctly you could say that there are around 6 developers which are in the project for a long time
[00:57:25] <peda__> but that includes me and I didn't commit anything (usefull) for some time and another one with the same problem
[00:57:45] <peda__> at the moment around 3-4 active commiters
[01:00:17] <kinaeda> hrm for vmware should the .iso be in the same directory as the .vmx
[01:00:19] <kinaeda> ?
[01:00:36] <kinaeda> ah, it does :P
[01:01:16] <peda__> :)
[01:01:21] <kinaeda> ahh. wait, need to reboot. brb
[01:01:26] <peda__> ok
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[01:05:17] <kinaeda> and we're booting
[01:05:38] <kinaeda> error in booting?
[01:06:19] <Zigara> kinaeda, you made your own mmorpg?
[01:06:24] <kinaeda> I did
[01:06:43] <Zigara> iv been wanting to write my own for sometime.
[01:07:15] <kinaeda> well, it was a fan made mmorpg
[01:07:44] <peda__> what error did you get in booting?
[01:08:03] <kinaeda> I can't scroll back up :P
[01:08:29] <kinaeda> I think it has stalled though. It current says Device startup took 122........ms: scsi0
[01:08:41] <peda__> press return
[01:08:48] <peda__> and you'll see the prompt
[01:09:14] <kinaeda> plugin org.jnode.work has not yet finished :/
[01:09:34] <kinaeda> ahh there we go
[01:09:48] <kinaeda> wait, I thought there was a gui?
[01:10:04] <peda__> depends on the configuration in grub you choose
[01:10:15] <peda__> but most of use start the GUI from the comand line
[01:10:35] <peda__> startAWT
[01:10:45] <peda__> or startawt? use tab-completion...
[01:11:20] <kinaeda> kk
[01:13:05] <kinaeda> all I get is an arrow :P
[01:13:14] <peda__> wait...
[01:13:15] <kinaeda> *sigh* there it is lol
[01:13:16] <peda__> :)
[01:13:56] <peda__> you have to see that for the GUI to start up you need a fare amount of classes from awt.* and swing.*
[01:14:07] <peda__> and everything in there gets loaded and compiled by the JIT
[01:14:13] <peda__> before it gets executed
[01:14:19] <kinaeda> I see
[01:14:23] <kinaeda> tis slow XD
[01:14:28] <peda__> if you end the GUI and start it a second time it is really fast
[01:15:04] <kinaeda> which is done how?
[01:15:54] <kinaeda> lol my laptop is dieing running this
[01:16:29] <peda__> you can "kill" the gui with alt+F11 or F12? or F10?
[01:16:33] <peda__> something like that..
[01:16:45] <peda__> and in the GUI panel you have a exit menu entry too
[01:18:10] <kinaeda> this is impressive
[01:18:55] <peda__> yeah, and all that with a quite simple JIT
[01:19:05] <peda__> no optimizations yet
[01:19:21] <kinaeda> nice
[01:19:34] <kinaeda> so is there a roadmap or anything?
[01:20:09] <peda__> there is on the forum. Totaly out of date and you should not even have a look at it :)
[01:20:55] <kinaeda> :P
[01:21:07] <peda__> in talks there emerged some "milestones" we want to reach
[01:21:15] <peda__> you could count that as a roadmap
[01:21:42] <kinaeda> on the forums too?
[01:21:50] <peda__> don't think so
[01:22:02] <peda__> perhaps spread across different posts
[01:23:05] <peda__> basically: get a nighly test server up and running all kind of tests, build jnode on jnode, run tomcat and similar "big" apps in JNode
[01:23:39] <peda__> find and fix bugs, improve VM core
[01:23:45] <kinaeda> cool
[01:23:50] <peda__> perhaps something like these
[01:24:25] <kinaeda> hrm restart function seems to have killed jnode :P
[01:24:45] <peda__> hmm
[01:25:06] <kinaeda> seems it ran out of memory also
[01:25:54] <peda__> ok, have a look into the .vmx file
[01:26:03] <peda__> the default configuration might be a bit too small
[01:26:09] <peda__> take > 500
[01:27:12] <kinaeda> kk
[01:28:58] <kinaeda> does jnode support jars?
[01:29:25] <peda__> sure
[01:29:41] <peda__> each plugin in jnode is a jar
[01:29:47] <peda__> that contains a xml descriptor
[01:32:25] <kinaeda> In that case a jnode web server would be pretty easy
[01:33:24] <peda__> we have NanoHTTPD included in Jnode
[01:33:37] <peda__> and I think levente made jetty work
[01:33:45] <peda__> but it's not included by default
[01:33:50] <kinaeda> I dunno what that is XD
[01:34:22] <peda__> tomcat in smaaaall
[01:34:28] <kinaeda> ahhh
[01:36:49] <kinaeda> well yea, my mmorpg used apache mina for networking so I'm sure a web server could be built with it
[01:41:07] <kinaeda> using jnode has reminded me how ugly the default java look and feel is :P
[01:41:24] <peda__> :)
[01:41:33] <peda__> I think it's the only working one right now
[01:41:45] <kinaeda> yea
[01:45:27] <kinaeda> wow this is over 4 years old
[01:48:30] <peda__> btw, most of us are from Europe, so we're GMT based
[01:48:48] <peda__> and as it's really late here I have to go to bed now
[01:49:27] <peda__> hope to cu, gn8
[01:50:15] <kinaeda> i'm GMT based but don't sleep much :P
[01:50:25] <kinaeda> thanks for the help. cya
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[12:00:42] <FabienD_> hi all
[12:01:27] <FabienD_> hagar_jnode: have you updated from svn these days and had some troubles with @Override in intellij IDEA ?
[12:07:45] <hagar_jnode> Hi Fabien... I just updated yesterday
[12:08:15] <hagar_jnode> but I didn't have time to check anything nor building it
[12:08:33] <hagar_jnode> I updated to IDEA 8.0.1
[12:13:56] <FabienD_> did you specify something about java source level ? it should be java 6
[12:15:13] <FabienD_> I ask you these questions about questions because levente told me yesterday that @Override on implementations of interface methods is giving errors in IDEA
[12:15:37] <FabienD_> s/questions about questions/questions
[12:16:20] <FabienD_> annotation on such methods is allowed only since java 6 and wasn't allowed in java 5
[12:16:57] <FabienD_> anyway, in eclipse and with ant script all is fine
[12:21:41] <hagar_jnode> hmm... I can check it when I get home... I imported the settings from my last IDEA and loaded the project and ran an update on the project. I didn't noticed any error messages, but if I recall correct the java version is 6 in the intellij project files in svn
[12:25:40] <FabienD_> I have looked at the .iml files but they don't seem to mention explicitely the java version
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   December 22, 2008  
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