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[00:00:11] <pr3d4t0r> Anyway, I leave the floor to others to continue. Have a good sleep, peeps.
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[00:00:34] <bearded_oneder> k_89: web applications, e-commerce, distributed applications, desktop apps, embedded systems, appliances, set top boxes, mobile devices -- pretty much on anywhere hardware that can run a compatible JVM.
[00:00:51] <bearded_oneder> on any*
[00:02:00] <Cpudan80> Can a singleton JEE bean not implement PropertyChangeListener ?
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[00:02:25] <Cpudan80> it won't compiile if I'm implementing that interface ..
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[00:03:51] <echosystm> what is the best way to clear a database between unit tests? i'm using liquibase for schema management if that affects anything
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[00:05:18] <cbeust> echosystm: do it in a @BeforeMethod and load it up with batch inserts?
[00:05:18] <ianp> liqui.. what?
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[00:05:54] <ianp> cbeust: I think he wants a delete in @AfterMethod in this case
[00:06:15] <ianp> but that too
[00:07:37] <ianp> or try to write tests that dont need deletes
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[00:07:43] <ianp> and use an in memory db
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[00:08:27] <cbeust> I also read about people doing inserts in transactions but not committing it, and setting the isolation level so that they could actually run their tests on uncommitted data. Not sure how convenient or realistic that is.
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[00:09:01] <fannagoganna> hello, i wonder if there is a streamable-type implementation of Graphics2D, or if anyone knows of a way to use Graphics2D without exhausting JVM (heavy drawing on the Graphics2D canvas)?
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[00:19:25] <MagmaRules> Guys anyone knows how i can use <jsp:include page="..." /> and access variables inside the included files?
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[00:22:08] <freeone3000> JSP may be PHP-like, but I don't think it's *that* retarded. Don't write your code in JSPs. Put it in your backing servlet, or your controller, or your beans, or even in a taglib.
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[00:23:34] <k_89> O.K. so java used here and there.... what is its advantage? RoR, php etc can do scripting much quicker, C/C++ can do much better closer to machine jobs, what is java's usp, other than its virtual machine
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[00:23:48] <k_89> had been away from the pc for a while
[00:24:03] <freeone3000> k_89: Tools and libraries.
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[00:24:22] <exobyte> What's the fix for not being able to reflectivelty access publuc members of Map.Entry?
[00:24:42] <freeone3000> exobyte: Fixing your reflection code. You can always access public members.
[00:25:04] <Charrit> freeone3000, I set up a TableCellEditor to handle the cell edit with a JTextField but I have the same problem, the cursor doen't appear. Can you point me a example of what I should do?
[00:25:18] <exobyte> freeone3000: that's what I thought, but I was pretty sure there was a "bug" with that in 1.5
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[00:25:30] <k_89> freeone3000 : Other languages have it too, the thing is, i know core java pretty well and was thinking of getting scjp and scjd certs, are they worth the time i would spend prepping for them
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[00:25:58] <freeone3000> exobyte: Not that I know of. (Why are you using 1.5, anyway?)
[00:26:09] <freeone3000> k_89: Certs? I don't think so.
[00:26:29] <echosystm> cbeust: i meant more in terms of what is an easy way to run some script that clears the db?
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[00:26:39] <k_89> freeone3000: I don't have a CS degree, have a physics one
[00:27:03] <k_89> Am a self taught java, php, c++ programmer
[00:27:07] <echosystm> ie. how can i have some .sql or liquibase changelog and then easily run that from inside my tests
[00:27:09] <k_89> use php to make bucks
[00:27:18] <freeone3000> k_89: I've found it matters less what credientials you have than the ability to show you can program. Having a decent project to show off wouldn't be terrible.
[00:27:18] <exobyte> freeone3000: broken code. It's pretty sad.
[00:27:39] <bearded_oneder> k_89: it's tools, libraries, and abstraction from the machine permit you to focus more on what the application does rather than platform and hardware idiosyncrasies.
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[00:27:49] <freeone3000> exobyte: Uhm, you're aware that only the API has changed between 1.5 and 1.6, and that library changes are backwards compatible to the point of annoyance, yes?
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[00:28:22] <echosystm> k_89: the thing about java is that that it is often the best tool for the job, particularly once you start doing "enterprise scale" work
[00:28:43] <fannagoganna> or instead, should i use something like Batik and stream the output? Example given here, http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/batik/using/svg-generator.html
[00:28:48] <exobyte> freeone3000: XSLT magically breaks between two 1.5 revisions. My guess is that it's that the code was broken to begin with
[00:28:54] <echosystm> if you're putting together small content managed websites about your pet cats, php or ruby will be far better
[00:28:59] <bearded_oneder> k_89: if you are a "self taught Java programmer" (beyond the basic tutorials), it's benefits should be obvious in comparison to what you've already used.
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[00:29:18] <exobyte> freeone3000: it's bad, I know
[00:29:21] <echosystm> but if you're doing big web services and so on, java is pretty much the only sane choice
[00:29:24] <erkan^> Hello. I have a problem with Java Chat: I cannot close java applets in my browser, when i clicking the 'X'button just nothing happens. Can someone help me?
[00:29:34] <freeone3000> ~~ erkan^ tech support
[00:29:34] <javabot> erkan^, Hello, ##java is not a technical support channel for your Java apps or virtual machines, it is a development enthusiast channel which prefers to receive questions and discussion on the topic of programming with the Java language. Please consider seeking help with the vendor of your software if you can't figure out how to use it.
[00:29:38] <arex\> How do I change the default Javadoc @author tag in Netbeans IDE? It defaults to my username, and I don't want that.
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[00:30:03] <erkan^> ow ok, freeone3000
[00:30:04] <erkan^> thank you
[00:30:16] <echosystm> arex\: http://www.google.com.au/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=netbeans+author+javadoc
[00:30:21] <echosystm> also, #netbeans
[00:30:21] <k_89> facebook is written in php(so i have heard), twitter uses RoR, what is bigger than them
[00:30:56] <echosystm> ok
[00:31:12] <erkan^> Good night :-)
[00:31:14] <echosystm> firstly, twitter uses Scala, which is "THE new JVM language"
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[00:31:25] <echosystm> (it's basically java)
[00:32:00] <echosystm> secondly, writing facebook in PHP was a mistake - a mistake that has resulted in them having to write a tool to compile their php to C (facebook uses hiphop)
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[00:32:55] <echosystm> infact, twitters move from ruby to scala pretty much confirms what i said: scripting languages suck for large projects
[00:33:08] <bearded_oneder> yep, it couldn't scale. Facebook had to be heavily refactored and in many places rewritten.
[00:33:14] <echosystm> same goes for facebook fail
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[00:35:40] <echosystm> to be honest, the JVM is the only VM i trust to handle big projects
[00:35:52] <Charrit> freeone3000, I solved that in a simpler way: jTable4.setSurrendersFocusOnKeystroke(true);
[00:36:00] <Charrit> then cursor appears
[00:36:03] <k_89> k... will give serious thought to moving to jsp and all. And since you guys are java programmers, what do you say about j2ee, haven't heard great things about it, but then, have only talked to .net and php programers
[00:36:17] <exobyte> freeone3000: I found it! http://bugs.sun.com/view_bug.do?bug_id=4071957
[00:36:21] <echosystm> at a guess, ruby only has a weakly-concurrent mark-and-sweep garbage collector, which is going to fail hard on any decent sized heap
[00:36:40] <freeone3000> k_89: It's a library for everything you'd want to do Enterprise-y. Also, JSP is terrible - go with Velocity or FreeMarker for templating.
[00:37:06] <arex\> Do you call a "public static final" in Java "a constant"?
[00:37:13] <freeone3000> You could.
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[00:37:22] <Sou|cutter> arex\: sure
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[00:37:31] <echosystm> k_89: j2ee is great, because it gives you a highly standardised and portable platform to design against
[00:37:44] <echosystm> however, it has a high learning curve and shouldnt be used for everything
[00:37:49] <Sou|cutter> arex\: if it's immutable anyway
[00:37:56] <echosystm> if youre developing small content managed sites, don't use java
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[00:38:20] <Sou|cutter> k_89: there are several high-quality frameworks to choose from in java-land these days
[00:38:48] <Sou|cutter> k_89: pure servlets/jsp is not something I would recommend, though
[00:38:57] <echosystm> if you want a sweet framework for developing highly portable MVC web apps, check out grails
[00:39:07] <echosystm> its all the benefits of java, with all the benefits of a scripting language
[00:39:18] <Sou|cutter> ~~ k_89 web frameworks
[00:39:18] <javabot> k_89, Popular web frameworks: JSF, JAX-RS, Struts 2, Stripes, Wicket, Spring MVC, Grails, GWT, Play, and Click. Ask me about each for more info.
[00:39:31] <Sou|cutter> (those are in no particular order, and fill different niches)
[00:39:35] <echosystm> for larger mvc projects, check out spring
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[00:40:07] <bearded_oneder> k_89: PHP is great for one off projects, small low budget web apps, prototyping, and low investment startups, but for scalable, well engineered, high traffic applications it just can not compete with Java. use the tool that fits the project specs and budget. see http://www.richardrauser.com/index.php/2010/01/18/php-vs-java-for-webapps-quality-maintanability-of-code/
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[00:40:31] <Sou|cutter> ~ bearded_oneder++
[00:40:32] <javabot> bearded_oneder has a karma level of 16, Sou|cutter
[00:41:03] <k_89> looks like i have neglected java for too long now(almost half a year), thnx guys, will move to learn java as soon as i have some time
[00:41:16] <k_89> no... its been an year
[00:41:37] <Sou|cutter> most of these frameworks have been around for years ;) but it's impossible to know them all, so no worries
[00:41:59] <Sou|cutter> that list is hardly complete either
[00:42:01] * Sou|cutter shrugs
[00:42:07] <k_89> i got comfortable with core java a year ago, haven't used it since
[00:42:23] <k_89> made some trees, graphs etc in it
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[00:43:10] <k_89> i do data structure problems to get comfy with a lang
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[00:43:18] <k_89> thats all
[00:43:28] <Sou|cutter> k_89: cool :) There is a lot of depth to the java ecosystem, I have programmed it in years and more than ever I realize how little I know *grin*
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[00:45:29] <cheeser> we've been trying to tell you that, Sou|cutter P^)=
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[00:46:41] <k_89> Can you guys suggest some books to learn beyond core java, I know there is Core java vol.1 & 2, but something which lets me work in web-dev and s/w dev(mainly on android) more quickly
[00:46:44] <Sou|cutter> People who claim to know a lot about things are dangerous!
[00:47:09] <plarsen> k_89: in what regards? Development of what type of application?
[00:47:46] <k_89> what type of app. : apps for android tabs
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[00:48:11] <freeone3000> That's an entirely separate language with exactly the same syntax.
[00:48:13] <k_89> web dev: the stuff i do in php, but something which i can do at a larger scale
[00:48:21] <plarsen> k_89: Lots of resources online about that; but as to theory look at MVC design pattern books
[00:48:58] <k_89> i have read a lot about MVC, done it a lot in php
[00:49:18] <plarsen> k_89: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=androd+programming&x=0&y=0 - lots of books too.
[00:51:22] <k_89> see... the thing is, i think there are 3 main areas in programming.... web-dev, s/w dev, embedded-dev, I feel C/C++(and most probably C++0x) would be much better for third one
[00:51:39] <k_89> and C++)x would be better for pc s/w dev
[00:51:59] <Sou|cutter> java has not made a huge impact on desktop apps outside of development tools
[00:52:20] <k_89> java syntax goes in mobile devices s/w dev ..
[00:52:34] <k_89> and in (as u guys say) large scale web-dev
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[00:53:22] <k_89> so those are the things i want to know some good books for... mainly web dev for java and maybe mobile s/w dev
[00:53:32] <cbeust> k_89: take a look at GWT also, might give you a faster path to getting something up and runnning than JSP
[00:53:34] <k_89> and thanks for the android book
[00:54:17] <Sou|cutter> as for web dev, I think you might have to narrow your focus a bit... find a framework you're interested in, and go from there
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[00:54:54] <Sou|cutter> there's plenty of good online resources for most of them that should give you at least a taste of them before you need to run off and read books
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[00:56:53] <k_89> thanks guys... you all have been of much help
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[00:56:56] <Sou|cutter> k_89: I highly recommend JCIP if you're interested in scaling
[00:57:04] <Sou|cutter> ~~ k_89 jcip
[00:57:04] <javabot> k_89, jcip is Java Concurrency In Practice, a book focused on implementing threaded and concurrent applications in Java. http://jcip.net/
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[00:58:22] <Sou|cutter> that's not strictly a web-dev thing, but in most large-scale web-apps there is some layer at which you'll find the information in that book invaluable
[00:58:39] <k_89> Sou|cutter : I have tried my hand at threading, played with it a little, so know how the basics of it. Scaling of sites would come later. What i want for now is to learn web-dev in java
[00:58:41] <bearded_oneder> k_89: web dev starter -- http://tinyurl.com/Core-Servlets-Javaserver-Pages ; http://tinyurl.com/Java-Servlet-Programming ; http://tinyurl.com/Core-JavaServer-Faces-3rd-Ed
[00:58:51] <Sou|cutter> k_89: fair enough
[00:59:26] <k_89> thanx bearded_oneder
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[00:59:30] <Sou|cutter> k_89: that's the book to read if you ever need to go deeper into concurrency in java, though
[00:59:36] <k_89> sure
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[01:41:04] <jonn> Is there a reason why Java does not have a soft phantom reference?
[01:41:51] <cheeser> ~javadoc PhantomReference
[01:41:52] <javabot> cheeser: http://is.gd/rFbSPY [JDK: java.lang.ref.PhantomReference]
[01:41:53] <cheeser> is that not what you want?
[01:43:39] <jonn> it just seems like there should be 4 types. {soft,weak} and then a phantom equiv. There only seems to be a weak phantom, but not a soft equiv.
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[01:44:21] <cheeser> i don't really know enough about them to comment either way
[01:44:28] <cheeser> i only know they're there
[01:45:48] <Fanook> the package description for java.lang.ref explains the reference semantics pretty well
[01:45:53] <tjsnell> do you have a use case where you really need them
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[01:50:26] <jonn> tjsnell: caching with the needs of phantom references wouldnt seem unrealistic
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[01:52:18] <cornell> ~pastebin
[01:52:18] <javabot> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin - Paste the final url after you've pasted your stuff there.
[01:52:19] <Fanook> Soft: if you run out of memory, try reclaiming this. Weak: doesn't prevent objects that reference this from being reclaimed. Phantom: all objects that reference this have been or can be reclaimed. Most often used with ReferenceQueue to replace finalizers
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[01:52:38] <lt232> wats up yall
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[01:54:26] <lt232> Which of the following declares an array that will hold a list of integers?
[01:54:35] <jonn> Fanook: I know what they each do.
[01:54:37] <Fanook> ~~ lt232 arrays
[01:54:38] <javabot> lt232, arrays is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/arrays.html
[01:54:45] <lt232> (a) int[] numbers; (b) int numbers[]; (c) numbers = new int[10]; (d) numbers = new int[]; (e) int[10] numbers;
[01:54:55] <Fanook> lt232: we will not do your homework for you. Go read the docs and tutorials
[01:54:59] <jonn> but there is a lack of "dont relcaim this until youre out of memory, but then place it in the queue"
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[01:55:57] <Fanook> jonn: sure there is. SoftReference(T, ReferenceQueue)
[01:56:07] <lt232> im just asking for confirmation i put (d
[01:56:10] <lt232> ?
[01:56:44] <cheeser> ~homework
[01:56:45] <javabot> Homework is meant to be done by YOU, so that YOU learn something. Stop cheating; we don't like doing our own, why should we do yours? Also, answering homework questions is extremely frustrating. See "~why no homework" for more reasons why we won't answer your questions.
[01:56:53] <Fanook> lt232: again, go read the tutorial you were linked above
[01:56:54] <jonn> Fanook: then is a phantom not just a weakref(t,queue)?
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[01:57:45] <Ochikobore> can anyone help a newbie with a school problem?
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[01:57:55] <lt232> Oh its answer (a) isnt it??
[01:58:00] <Ochikobore> hahaha
[01:58:01] <Fanook> Ochikobore: we may point you in the right direction
[01:58:03] <Ochikobore> i wish :[
[01:58:07] <cheeser> ~anyone
[01:58:07] <javabot> Chances are someone has, so why not just ask your question and save some time? If someone knows and wants/has time to help, perhaps he/she will.
[01:58:09] <jonn> lt232: just try it
[01:58:13] <cheeser> Ochikobore: he's talking abut something else
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[01:58:40] <lt232> someone pm me
[01:58:43] <cheeser> ok then.
[01:59:33] <jonn> Fanook: I dont understand the purpose of the queuef or non-phantom references. how does it enqueue a deleted object..?
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[01:59:52] <katy> I love java
[01:59:53] <lt232> ~~freeone3000
[01:59:53] <javabot> The syntax is: tell nick about factoid - you missed out the 'about', lt232
[02:00:02] <katy> it is the best language known to man...
[02:00:07] <lt232> paging freeone3000
[02:00:07] <katy> C++ is for fags
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[02:00:49] <lt232> ~javabot
[02:00:49] <javabot> for a FAQ and a quick tutorial on how to use javabot, see: http://javachannel.net/wiki/pmwiki.php/FAQ/Javabot
[02:01:03] <lt232> ~~cheeser
[02:01:03] <javabot> The syntax is: tell nick about factoid - you missed out the 'about', lt232
[02:01:07] <lt232> ~cheeser
[02:01:07] <javabot> lt232, what does that even *mean*?
[02:02:19] <Fanook> jonn: from my understanding of the package docs and javadocs, ReferenceQueues are processed between the time a referenced object is identified as reclaimable and when it's actually reclaimed
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[02:03:42] <Fanook> jonn: PhantomReferences only indicate that no other live objects are referencing the associated object and as such the object will be reclaimed once the queue it's associated with processes it
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[02:16:16] <disappearedng_> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/347779/ Anybody mind telling me why my timer doesn't expire?
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[02:20:27] <Fanook> disappearedng_: it expires for me. Pastebin your test case
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[02:21:53] <disappearedng_> actually sorry I realized my code is caught up on some other part
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[02:28:10] <chomping> hi guys, I need some help here with regards to servlet. Let say I want to response from my servlet a JSON object. However, I want to response a preformatted HTML then I want to reply {result: "<li>....list of 20 items .. </li>"}. In my code I do request.getRequestDispatcher("website/ajax/fetchMorePostsPageTemplate.jsp").forward(request, response); Now how would I able to get the preformatted HTML?
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[02:35:08] <disappearedng_> Hey guys I am new to java, I basically wants to do the following: start_timer => after X amount of time, run SetFlagTask(this should be in a loop). Then stop_timer just cancels this loop. How come I am not getting what I want? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/347788/
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[02:39:18] <Planck_> disappearedng_: I don't even see how that could compile
[02:39:29] <disappearedng_> Planck: It does
[02:39:41] <disappearedng_> I left out the static variable declaration at the top cause I don't want to paste the whole thing down
[02:41:53] <Planck_> Ahh, I see: TimerTask is a nested class
[02:42:00] <Planck_> Err, SetFlagTask
[02:42:08] <disappearedng_> do you want me to paste you the whole java file?
[02:42:11] <disappearedng_> if that helps
[02:42:13] <Planck_> Nah, it's fine
[02:42:28] <disappearedng_> I am implementing go back N as an exercise for my interview
[02:42:49] <Planck_> You are changing the timer instance up to 200 times per second...
[02:42:57] <disappearedng_> yeah I took that off let me repaste
[02:44:22] <disappearedng_> Planck_: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/347791/ Well the one thing that I have is now when I run this code, I keep seeing multiples of System.out.println("Timer expired, running again"); being run at the same time
[02:44:32] <disappearedng_> I thought start_timer will destory the old timer now?
[02:44:35] <disappearedng_> *no?
[02:45:47] <Planck_> Well, it does make it garbage, but continues to exist for a while.
[02:47:18] <disappearedng_> ok I guess I have to check if timer = null then timer.cancel
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[02:47:26] <Planck_> Incidentally, that 's an awful lot of static methods
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[02:47:35] <Planck_> Hmm, and static fields
[02:47:39] <disappearedng_> lol I am not that good with java yet
[02:47:43] <disappearedng_> just touching the basics
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[02:47:55] <disappearedng_> I mean they are gonna ask you to like do algorithms and netwrok
[02:48:04] <disappearedng_> won't really critize you on the spot for using that much static in an interview
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[02:49:35] <Planck_> Hmm, actually start_timer doesn't do anything to previous timers at all
[02:49:56] <Planck_> I was misreading stop_timer as beign part of it
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[02:50:56] <Planck_> Though I suppose start_timer is only ever called when the only task on the previous timer finishes.
[02:51:00] <disappearedng_> yeah sorry yeah but basically I came from python background and I thought that once you overwrite a variable the memory gets trashed
[02:51:34] <Planck_> Oh wait, that's not true either. Your main() method does lots of start_timers
[02:51:46] <disappearedng_> yeah
[02:51:51] <disappearedng_> now I check in start_timer
[02:51:55] <Planck_> So they continue to run and can't be stopped
[02:51:58] <disappearedng_> if timer != null, stop_timer()
[02:52:47] <Planck_> Wouldn't it be better to just maintain a single Timer and schedule tasks on that?
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[02:53:15] <sbxd> ~pastebin
[02:53:15] <javabot> http://mysticpaste.com - Paste the final url after you've pasted your stuff there.
[02:53:44] <Elazar> Is there a way to convert a Date instance from one TimeZone to another without having to convert to String and back again?
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[02:54:43] <Planck_> Elazar: java.util.Date?
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[03:01:47] <monty_hall> will javafx 2 be included as part of javase? ie: d/l as a separate plugin etc etc.
[03:01:48] <Elazar> Planck_: Yes.
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[03:02:32] <Planck_> Elazar: All the functions to do with timezones in Date are deprecated and shouldn't be used.
[03:02:45] <Elazar> Planck_: So, the answer to my question is "no," then?
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[03:03:12] <Planck_> The answer to your question is "you shouldn't be using Date for that purpose at all"
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[03:04:17] <Elazar> Planck_: I'm writing an application based on Jersey and I'm trying to use http://jsr311.java.net/nonav/releases/1.1/javax/ws/rs/core/Response.ResponseBuilder.html#lastModified(java.util.Date) which expects a GMT date.
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[03:04:41] <Elazar> To my knowledge, any Date instance will respect the timezone of the current system, which may or may not be GMT.
[03:04:53] <Planck_> Date represents a specific time, independent of timezone.
[03:05:14] <Planck_> That's the only non-deprecated functionality left in it
[03:05:43] <Elazar> Planck_: How would you suggest I handle this situation, then?
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[03:06:50] <Planck_> You can either use one of the two Date constructors (if either are what you need), or use a Calendar of some sort.
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[03:07:38] <Planck_> What Date do you wish to represent?
[03:07:39] <grug> what is the best way to print a List (i.e. i have a list of List<TreeEvent> treeEvent), just iterate through it and print each element?
[03:07:51] <Planck_> grug: Yes
[03:07:58] <grug> sweet, cheers :)
[03:07:58] <Fanook> what's .toString() give you?
[03:08:22] <grug> well i could do that, but i want to be able to format it nicely
[03:08:32] <grug> so printing each element and doing what i want with each element is a bit easier
[03:08:36] <grug> i may be mistaken, though
[03:09:37] <Elazar> Planck_: No specific date. It's variable.
[03:10:18] <Planck_> I mean, what are you using to specify the date? Offset from now? Year/month/day? etc.
[03:10:55] <Planck_> Millseconds since Jan 1st 1970 GMT?
[03:12:18] <Elazar> Planck_: I think the Calendar suggestion you made may be what I need.
[03:12:27] <Planck_> Okay :-)
[03:12:49] <Elazar> Planck_: Would calling setDate(someDate) on that, then setTimeZone(new SimpleTimeZone(0, "GMT")), then getDate() give me someDate respective to GMT?
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[03:14:24] <Planck_> Date objects don't model timezone representations at all.
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[03:16:03] <Planck_> (Well, they used to try. But they failed and you shouldn't use that anymore)
[03:16:07] <Elazar> Planck_: OK, maybe I should rephrase the question. If I'm in GMT-6 and I want to know the time in GMT+0, how would I get that?
[03:16:22] <Planck_> Use a Calendar.
[03:16:46] <Elazar> Planck_: Doing what I just described? ^
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[03:16:59] <Planck_> Nothing to do with Date at all
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[03:17:22] <tje2> Hello all.
[03:17:28] <Elazar> Planck_: OK, now what if I want to do it for a time that isn't the current time?
[03:17:43] <tje2> I was wondering if someone might be able to clue me in as to the best place to put the PostgreSQL JDBC .jar file might be?
[03:17:51] <ojacobson> Elazar: The Date for 2011-03-03 09:00:00-03:00 is the same as the Date for 2011-03-03 12:00:00Z
[03:17:55] <ojacobson> That's the point he's making
[03:18:15] <ojacobson> There's no "the date here" vs "the date there" distinction. You get the same Date object, modulo identity, either way.
[03:18:15] <tje2> I'm looking to place it somewhere "global" where, ideally, anything called from $JAVA_HOME/bin/java would find it in it's $CLASSPATH.
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[03:18:28] <tje2> I'm fairly knowledgeable with PostgreSQL, but a total n3wb to Java.
[03:18:32] <ojacobson> tje2: On your application's classpath.
[03:18:37] <ojacobson> Global classpath *does not work well*. Don't do it.
[03:18:51] <ojacobson> It's only convenient until you accidentally break something that was expecting some other version of the library.
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[03:19:17] <tje2> ojacobson, OK, got ya. I've already got it in one of the app's include dir's.... was just hoping that there was a "global" classpath that I might fall-back on.
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[03:19:51] <ojacobson> There is, but you don't want it.
[03:19:54] <Planck_> Elazar: You can use a Calendar to choose a time using its calendar-specific fields (such as timezone), and get the Date corresponding to that.
[03:20:03] <tje2> ojacobson, Might I inquire as to why?
[03:20:18] <tje2> I'd be happy w/ a link to an explanation if you don't feel like going into all of the details...
[03:20:29] <ojacobson> The absence of version information in inter-JAR dependencies means that a globally-visible library is almost certainly going to be the wrong version
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[03:20:34] <Planck_> You can also start with a Date, and use a Calendar to get the calendar-specific fields for a given timezone
[03:20:38] <ojacobson> It's the right version for the app you're writing now, and for nothing else
[03:20:49] <tje2> Got ya.... Now THAT makes perfect sense.
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[03:21:00] <ojacobson> with JDBC in particular, a driver in the global spot gets loaded into every program that uses DriverManager, which is most of the ones that use databases
[03:21:03] <tje2> Thanks, ojacobson. I believe that gives me exactly what I need to know.
[03:21:10] <ojacobson> do you really want to have side effects on every db-using program you run? :)
[03:21:55] <tje2> Well, considering that the box is going to be dedicated to a single custom app, I don't think it'll be an issue... but if it's a "best practice" not to rely on a global classpath for such things, than I want to do it the right way.
[03:22:20] <ojacobson> Is it a container-using app or something freestanding?
[03:22:33] <tje2> Honestly, the app is written in PHP (the front-end), but I had intended to write the backend (send/recv XML over SSL socket from PHP code up front) in Java as a learning experience.
[03:22:46] <tje2> It would be a standalone app.
[03:22:51] <ojacobson> Euargh. That's going to be terrible.
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[03:23:00] <ojacobson> JVM startup has been much improved, but it's still pretty noticable
[03:23:01] <tje2> It's more of an exercise than anything for right now.
[03:23:03] <Planck_> Elazar: In short, a Date is an object representing a physical time. A Calendar is an object that handles local representations of time.
[03:23:04] <tje2> Learning Java.
[03:23:12] <ojacobson> especially if you spin up a JVM every time you want to send one of thse requests :)
[03:23:31] <tje2> Oh, no, nothing like that... Yeah, JVM startup takes forever and a day. That's my biggest beef w/ Java apps.
[03:24:32] <tje2> I had intended to write a daemon, in Java, that connects to a PostgreSQL database. The Java app would receive XML over an SSL socket containing a username/password combo (from the PHP code up front), parse out the XML, check the user/pass against the database, and then return XML back to the front-end over the SSL socket.
[03:24:35] <Elazar> ojacobson, Planck_: OK, thanks guys. I think I understand, cranial inclination toward explosion notwithstanding.
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[03:26:18] <tje2> ojacobson .. Again, thanks for the gift of clue. I'll forget the idea of a global version of the PostgreSQL JDBC .jar, was just a thought that I figured I'd look into while I was thinking about it.
[03:26:44] <tje2> I'm going to have to get going; gotta get the girl's butt out of bed so she can get ready for work (and I can have some peace and quiet w/ the computer) :)
[03:26:44] <ojacobson> tje2: No probobelem.
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[03:50:24] <bearded_oneder> " Don't call me 'Junior' ! " It's "Indiana", "Dr. Jones" if you're nasty. (re-watching the Indiana Jones series).
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[04:08:51] <LtHummus> I wanted a car, I got a computer. How's that for being born under a bad sign?
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[04:09:13] <freeone3000> But you can only drive one car at a time.
[04:09:51] <LtHummus> I suppose
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[04:35:56] <echosystm> whats a good library for database testing with testng?
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[04:36:15] <echosystm> i'd use dbunit, but im wondering if there is some testng equivalent
[04:36:38] <chomping> guys, how would I able to get the value from this syntax -> request.getRequestDispatcher("website/ajax/fetchMorePostsPageTemplate.jsp").forward(request, response);
[04:37:06] <chomping> if I can get the value after being parsed, I want to assign it to a variable that's why I need the return data from that, any idea?
[04:37:38] <ojacobson> What return data?
[04:39:08] <cbeust> echosystm: Not really, people use DBUnit, which is pretty easy to integrate with TestNG
[04:39:10] <chomping> ojacobson: as I tested it, it does return a formatted HTML which is a string. prior than that, I have actually a variable as request.setAttribute()... which populates data to that jsp file then after it's done, I want to get the result and assign it to a variable, but I don't know how.
[04:39:17] <cbeust> I had a few issues a few years back using DBUnit, maybe moot now
[04:39:22] <chomping> I was looking towards the net didn't got any success to find how
[04:39:33] <ojacobson> chomping: it doesn't return anything.
[04:39:50] <ojacobson> It writes the resulting HTML (or whatever else the JSP produces) to the HttpServletResponse you passed it.
[04:40:03] <ojacobson> If you want it to go somewhere other than the originating client (browser, usually), give it a different response to write to
[04:40:05] <chomping> ojacobson: really, so let say I believe you have experienced this already
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[04:40:29] <chomping> oh ojacobson can you give me any url's that shows that? damn, I really didn't get any reference
[04:40:41] <chomping> what I was trying to achieve is that
[04:41:16] <chomping> I want to pass the data thru JSON object and I don't want to produce the HTML
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[04:42:01] <chomping> ojacobson: this is what's puzzling me on how to do this -> "give it a different response to write to" as what you've said
[04:42:09] <ojacobson> I don't see what's puzzling about it
[04:42:39] <ojacobson> HttpServletRequest is just an interface
[04:42:43] <chomping> what I mean is that I don't know how to do that, I was trying to research didn't got any luck how to do it in java
[04:43:11] <ojacobson> The instance of that interface you get when the container hands you a request to process is only magic in that it's connected to the HTTP client that originated the request
[04:43:19] <ojacobson> nothing's stopping you from inventing your own
[04:43:23] <ojacobson> same goes for HttpServletResponse
[04:43:43] <freeone3000> Couldn't you just create a new HTTP request to your own webserver and fetch the page contents?
[04:43:57] <ojacobson> freeone3000: forward can do things that inbound requests can't
[04:44:14] <ojacobson> (you can forward to resources inside of WEB-INF, for example)
[04:44:15] <chomping> I can actually do this -> JSONObject mapped = new JSONObject()... mapped.put("test", "test data");
[04:44:30] <chomping> I have no problem doing it and it produce JSON into my browser
[04:45:06] <chomping> but if I have a jsp file as my source of data sort of I want to add, mapped.put("result", data from the jsp file I want);
[04:45:46] <chomping> I don't know how, what it does right now it will immediately print the HTML after i do mapped.write(response.getWriter())
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[04:47:09] <freeone3000> Well, no duh.
[04:47:21] <freeone3000> "My program is doing exactly what I'm telling it to!"
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[04:49:22] <freeone3000> So either provide your own HttpServletResponse which isn't hooked up to browser output and get the data from it, or perform the request/response like one would a standard http client.
[04:49:46] <ojacobson> Actually, according to the docs there are some restrictions on what kinds of request and response you can pass
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[04:49:59] <ojacobson> but they're sufficiently open that you can still ultimately do anything you want, you just need to be pedantic about it
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[05:29:59] <_controller> Hello, how can I check how many threads an ExecutorService is running?
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[05:32:06] <exobyte> _controller: the API doesn't provide a means
[05:32:27] <_controller> that's retarded
[05:32:49] <exobyte> _controller: you could submit a task that submits a task, then blocks, and so on, but that only half works
[05:33:03] <_controller> if a callable threw an uncaught exception, would the thread be destroyed?
[05:33:23] <_controller> assuming im using a fixed thread pool
[05:33:28] <exobyte> _controller: oh
[05:33:40] <exobyte> _controller: if it's a ThreadPoolExecutor, there is an api call
[05:34:14] <exobyte> _controller: getActiveCount, getCorePoolSize, and getLargestPoolSize
[05:34:17] <_controller> does Executors.newFixedThreadPool return a ThreadPoolExecutor
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[05:34:32] <exobyte> _controller: what do the javadocs say?
[05:34:38] <_controller> dont say anything
[05:34:45] <exobyte> yes, they do
[05:35:47] <_controller> where?
[05:35:48] <exobyte> _controller: you could also provide a custom ThreadFactory that counts how often a thread is made
[05:36:02] <_controller> that's nasty
[05:36:05] <_controller> Creates a thread pool that reuses a fixed number of threads operating off a shared unbounded queue. At any point, at most nThreads threads will be active processing tasks. If additional tasks are submitted when all threads are active, they will wait in the queue until a thread is available. If any thread terminates due to a failure during execution prior to shutdown, a new one will take its place if needed to execute subsequent tasks. T
[05:36:10] <_controller> no mention of threadpoolexecutor
[05:36:19] <exobyte> _controller: read the method signature
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[05:36:34] <_controller> ExecutorService....
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[05:36:50] <exobyte> _controller: that's what it returns
[05:36:55] <_controller> umm..
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[05:37:02] <_controller> ExecutorService is an abstract class
[05:37:10] <exobyte> yes
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[05:37:16] <_controller> meaning it might have used a Threadpoolexecutor
[05:37:23] <exobyte> you can make a ThreadPoolExecutor on your own, too
[05:37:51] <exobyte> yup
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[05:38:54] <exobyte> _controller: why don't you just create a new ThreadPoolExecutor on your own?
[05:39:03] <_controller> idk
[05:39:05] <_controller> whatever
[05:39:07] <_controller> thanks
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[05:40:02] * exobyte "helped" someone!
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[06:26:25] <franzks> hello, please take a look at http://java.pastebin.com/AD9gsvdR at line 73
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[06:26:51] <franzks> I wanted to create a sort of a Log with the logins, but everytime I run the program again, it creates a new Log.txt
[06:27:22] <franzks> How can I do it so that it used only 1 Log.txt, everytime it needs to write something, it just adds to the text file instead of create a new one
[06:27:39] <Fanook> open your stream in append mode
[06:28:18] <franzks> so instead of println(), I use append() ?
[06:29:21] <Fanook> no, that's not what I said
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[06:32:16] <franzks> There is no other append in the API for printstream, where else should I look?:
[06:32:21] <franzks> google doesnt help either :(
[06:32:49] <Fanook> well, you're writing to a file, so how about FileOutputStream
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[06:33:29] <franzks> FileOutputStream(file, true)?
[06:33:31] <franzks> thanks!
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[06:35:28] <franzks> uhm, new problem, FileOutputStream doesnt have any methods that accepts strings?
[06:35:45] <Fanook> so wrap it in a writer or stream that does
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[06:47:23] <echosystm> does anyone know of a nice framework for testing databases that isn't completely database-specific?
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[06:47:45] <echosystm> ie. i'm not actually testing my database, im just testing that the results of my webservice calls are doing the right thing in the database
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[06:48:04] <echosystm> dbunit seems far too much towards testing the database itself
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[06:48:24] <echosystm> i basically just want an easy way to run queries and assertions
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[07:04:51] <blbrown_win3> is there a working git java api
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[07:06:06] <blbrown_win3> I guesss jgit
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[07:31:39] <cbeust> Yup jgit
[07:31:43] <cbeust> Eclipse uses it
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[07:33:30] <dextro_> why do HashMaps have containsValue() but no way to get the key(s) that contain the value
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[07:34:52] <cbeust> Because they're built for fast key look up, not values
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[07:36:37] <dextro_> yes but to do the check containsValue() it has to loop though the entire list anyway
[07:36:48] <dextro_> so why not have it just return the fucking key
[07:38:41] <cbeust> Because there can be more than one
[07:41:13] <dextro_> not in my HashMap, so is there something better suited I should use/
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[07:41:34] <cbeust> You can always use a second hashmap that reverses keys and values
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[07:44:54] <dextro_> double the memory :(
[07:45:06] <dextro_> probably my best bet though
[07:45:23] <dextro_> would be faster lookups than looping though the first HashMap prob
[07:46:12] <cbeust> Typical space/time dilemma.
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[07:58:51] <GirL> Hello
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[08:10:24] <jerkface03> performance penalty when boxing primitive -- anyone know how bad it is
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[08:12:54] <cbeust> jerkface03: Don't worry about it until the profiler tells you to
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[08:21:08] <gnychis_> how can i avoid "unchecked cast from Object to ArrayList<ScanResult>" with this code: ArrayList<ScanResult> netlist_80211 = (ArrayList<ScanResult>)i.get("com.gnychis.coexisyst.80211");
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[08:26:01] <freeone3000> You can't.
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[08:35:38] <_W_> gnychis_, change the type of i
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[08:42:08] <MindTaker> how come i cant do this in java , Arr[]=new Arr[5]; ptr* p=arr[3]; arr[-1]// i can do it in c ,and for java: Arr[]=new Arry[5]; Object ptr=Arr[3]; ptr[-1]// error
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[08:45:31] <pirx> hello! does anyone know of a good (command line) tool to list jmx beans (and get their values)?
[08:47:12] <MindTaker> pirx: forget it java is a bad language
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[09:01:22] <c|oneman> Can someone explain in very laymen terms the differences between || and &&, when compared to | and &
[09:01:45] <c|oneman> this text doesnt seem to pay much attention to
[09:01:51] <c|oneman> | and &
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[09:10:53] <RLN> c|oneman, http://download.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/opsummary.html
[09:11:01] <jim> where's int min(int, int)?
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[09:11:27] <talios> java.lang.Math
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[09:11:48] <jim> thanks
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[09:20:20] <cbeust> c|oneman: Look up boolean arithmetic and binary arithmetic
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[09:47:12] <alex88> hi guys, i'm trying to load a big image as RenderedImage or BufferedImage, but it get outofmemory, is possible to load just a block of an image without fully loading it?
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[09:48:11] <pirx> i am trying to get some values from an application using jmx (monitoring purposes, using nagios). i can get simple values like ints, like this: java -Djava.endorsed.dirs=../terracotta-3.4.1/lib/ -cp jmxquery.jar org.nagios.JMXQuery -U service:jmx:jmxmp://192.168.146.79:9520/ -O "org.terracotta:type=Terracotta Server,name=DSO" -A GlobalServerMapGetSizeRequestsCount which answers: "JMX CRITICAL GlobalServerMapGetSizeRequestsCount=0". but some o
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[09:48:50] <pirx> the endorsed libs is there because terracotta uses jmxmp for their beans
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[09:56:35] <Planck_> alex88: Not via the built-in Java APIs
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[09:58:13] <alex88> Planck_: any idea? i've to get blocks of 8x8 pixels for processing them and reassemble image
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[10:03:44] <Repox> Hi. I'm a typical PHP developer with all the shortcomings that language brings and I'm currently trying to develop something in Java; I'm currently stuck at something that might seem simple, but I can't google the simple solution.
[10:03:58] <Repox> What I wan't is to set a timestamp for the current time. And when I activate some function I wan't to compare that timestamp with the current time to see if x seconds has passed.
[10:04:09] <Repox> In PHP I would do something like this: http://pastebin.com/NMZyLNzZ - How can I accomplish something like this, in a simple way?
[10:06:39] <joakimk> Anyone know what to do when Eclipse puts a red ! over the project folder? I realize this may be off-topic, but at least I'm working on a Java project :)
[10:07:29] <Bombe> Nah, it’s still off-topic.
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[10:08:03] <joakimk> The project is checked out via SVN, using Subclipse. And suddenly, while I'm programming, this ! appears and after that Eclipse simply stops compiling new binaries. When I do Run, I just get the last binaries compiled before the error/warning happened. And the main problem is, Eclipse doesn't *say* anything (in text) about what it's complaining about!
[10:08:51] <RLN> Repox, System.currentTimeMillis()
[10:09:20] <Repox> RLN: Thank you - I'll try that...
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[10:17:08] <frimend> Anyone who have worked with "PrimeFaces"?
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[10:17:57] <frimend> I have a icon, and I wish to enlarge it.
[10:18:25] <Niek> I am currently running a SOAP server on PHP. I really notice that it is quite slow. So I am concidering moving to Java. Would Java run faster as PHP for SOAP servers?
[10:18:28] <frimend> <p:commandButton action="#{filterBean.getXSDasFile}" ajax="false" title="Last Ned" image="ui-icon ui-icon-arrow-1-s">
[10:18:31] <frimend> <f:setPropertyActionListener value="#{xsd}" target="#{filterBean.selectedXSD}" />
[10:18:34] <frimend> </p:commandButton>
[10:19:14] <frimend> If anyone has any hint on how I should go about, to enlarge the icon "ui-icon ui-icon-arrow-1-s", that would be very helpfull.
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[10:30:48] <tjololo> anybody have experience with dom4j? (please don't kill me for asking about that)
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[10:33:06] <camcorder> hi
[10:33:21] <camcorder> I add a basic JButton to a JFrame, but whatever I did I couldn't make it shown
[10:33:49] <camcorder> when I debug I see the component is there, I use .validate() etc. but Panel is there, though can't add any component
[10:34:31] <camcorder> isn't creating a Jbutton, and panel.add(button); button.setVisible(true); panel.validate(); enough?
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[10:37:21] <freeone3000> Don't need the .setVisible() call, and the validate() call is wrong - if the panel's not yet laid out, you don't need it ; if it is, you need .revalidate();
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[10:42:31] <camcorder> freeone3000, didn't work
[10:42:48] <camcorder> freeone3000, can it be related with layout? I mean can I use '.add()' for a container using GroupLayout?
[10:43:26] <freeone3000> camcorder: You don't want to, no.
[10:43:47] <camcorder> hmm
[10:44:00] <camcorder> then designer gui became partially useless
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[10:44:29] <camcorder> or I should create my own JPanel using the grouplayout of mainPanel (which netbeans project creates automatically)?
[10:45:47] <camcorder> grouplayout looks like a hack to create a gui designer, as far as I see.
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[10:46:36] <camcorder> using it with handwritten code can easily end up with spagetti code
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[10:49:43] <freeone3000> GroupLayout contents are changed through creating Groups. And yes, GUI Designers for Swing tend to produce poor code.
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[10:57:46] <larsivi> Hi - I have a question with regard to the Java specification and the decision to omit implicit to-bool conversions (such are as present in C/C++) in conditions and expressions - do some documentation with examples exist as to why the decision was made?
[10:58:11] <Alvo> hi, where can i find <dependency> <groupId>jstl</groupId> <artifactId>jstl</artifactId> <version>1.2</version> </dependency> ?
[10:58:29] <Alvo> 1.2 seems not to be out
[10:59:13] <naked> alvo - god only knows since the demise of the old java.net maven repo. It might be under a different groupId/artifact now tho. which, if you're trying to solve a dep. on a different library - good luck :(
[10:59:51] <Alvo> larsivi: i dont know exactly decision but general decisions might be that java had no operators at all
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[11:02:10] <xeviox> hi, I'm using spring with jpa, any ideas what kind of query I have to create to check if a entity is in the table?
[11:02:33] <xeviox> using getResultList().count or something like that?
[11:03:11] <xeviox> the problem, first I used .getSingleResult, but that throws an error if no result is present
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[11:11:36] <mitch0> isn't there something like .get() or find() ?
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[11:19:01] <freeone3000> xeviox: .getSingleResult() and catch the error, perhaps?
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[11:23:09] <larsivi> Alvo: Java didn't have boolean operators in the beginning?
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[11:26:35] <ztj> Alvo: don't believe everything you read on the internet
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[11:27:51] <scruz> i'm definitely getting old
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[11:35:09] <Ledgrip> Hello?
[11:35:49] <Ledgrip> anybody here?
[11:35:59] <Tyred> Hi
[11:36:14] <[switch]> Ledgrip: morning
[11:36:23] <Ledgrip> Hello, sir' or maddam
[11:36:24] <[switch]> well here anyway :P
[11:36:25] <fr0ggler> nope, I'm not.
[11:36:40] <[switch]> fr0ggler: see last :)
[11:36:49] <Ledgrip> Is there anybody in here who can help me get a jumpstart on java?
[11:36:58] <fr0ggler> ~~Ledgrip tutorial
[11:36:58] <javabot> Ledgrip, Please see http://download.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/
[11:37:02] <fr0ggler> ~~Ledgrip rbi
[11:37:03] <javabot> Ledgrip, rbi is http://download.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/reallybigindex.html
[11:37:11] <fr0ggler> ~~Ledgrip book
[11:37:11] <javabot> Ledgrip, Download these two beginners' bibles free of charge: 1) Sun Java Tutorial at http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial 2) Bruce Eckel's "Thinking in Java" at http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIJ
[11:38:25] <Ledgrip> I have the book Head First 2nd Edition. But i learn better when somebody can help me get the basics down first
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[11:38:50] <ztj> go to school then
[11:38:56] <fr0ggler> Ledgrip, then pay for a tutor. if you have specific java questions, then ask here. "teach me java" isn't what we're here for.
[11:38:59] <ztj> hire a tutor
[11:39:06] * ztj gasps
[11:39:28] <fr0ggler> ztj, i know. and there you were thinking you were someone's dedicated Java bitch.
[11:39:31] <Ledgrip> I cant afford a tutor
[11:39:40] <fr0ggler> Ledgrip, then read.
[11:39:52] <fr0ggler> I learnt without a tutor, so can you.
[11:39:52] <ztj> learn to be a tutor, then tutor yourself
[11:40:19] <ztj> Funny that the word tutor is such a big part of the word tutorial
[11:40:21] <ztj> funny indeed
[11:40:34] <[switch]> :)
[11:41:00] <Ledgrip> wow, I was just asking a question. I could do without the smart ass comments. I have done nothing to you. Just a guy looking for a little help, clearly this isnt the place
[11:41:39] <ztj> Imposing your laziness on others is a thing that you did, it's not well respected here, your mistake. We'll get over it.
[11:41:45] <[switch]> Ledgrip: the URLS already given here are your best place to start.
[11:42:50] * ztj stretches
[11:43:03] <ztj> It's been a while, I'm rusty. It's hard work being such an asshole.
[11:43:13] <fr0ggler> Ledgrip, we've given you some help. As I said, if you have specific questions, that's fine. We aren't your dedicated tutors.
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[11:43:42] <fr0ggler> ztj, but you do it so well! :)
[11:44:13] <ztj> We all must have our talents
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[11:44:37] <pZombie> i cannot find mine
[11:45:03] <ztj> Your talent is being named after the worst Pizza Hut novelty menu item ever conceived.
[11:45:05] <[switch]> pZombie: look closer, its there somewhere
[11:45:08] <Ledgrip> Im not lazy, Thats why I have all those links stored in my Browser and I bought a book. Im just asking for a few pointers. But as I said before, This isn't the place for help. Only snarky attitudes. So thanks but no thanks. Im trying to be serious and you're just making jokes. I will find somebody who isn't a Dick.
[11:45:20] <fr0ggler> Ledgrip, really, we're helping you.
[11:45:25] <ztj> Ledgrip: your loss
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[11:45:34] <ztj> I learned everything about java here *shrug*
[11:45:50] <fr0ggler> Ledgrip, we're not being dicks at all. You just don't seem to like our answers for you. By all means, if you need specific help, ask here.
[11:45:54] <ztj> ~~ Ledgrip getting answers
[11:45:54] <javabot> Ledgrip, Not getting the kind of responses you'd like? Read this: http://www.mikeash.com/getting_answers.html
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[11:47:03] <ztj> And if that doesn't solve your problem, here is a huge flock of geese taking off at once http://bit.ly/ij4Ke4
[11:47:11] <Ledgrip> I'll just figure it out on my own.
[11:47:23] <ztj> Maybe (a) gosling is in there somewhere
[11:47:31] <fr0ggler> ztj, boom tish.
[11:47:52] <scruz> hi fr0ggler, ztj
[11:47:58] <fr0ggler> Ledgrip, that's what I did. And I ask in here for help with specific things, as well as googling and using forums. It's just sensible.
[11:48:02] <fr0ggler> we have day jobs you know.
[11:48:11] * scruz can't believe that he forgot that a ^ 0 = a
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[11:48:16] <fr0ggler> hey scruz
[11:48:56] <Ledgrip> I understand. Thanks
[11:49:23] <scruz> Ledgrip: my advice, so you don'y get pissed off, ask for specific things. and show code as much as possible when asking
[11:49:38] <ztj> I think he did the latter
[11:49:43] <ztj> by technicality
[11:50:07] <Ledgrip> Will do.
[11:50:08] <scruz> if you don't assume you're obligated to get an answer, you're more likely to learn stuff in here
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[11:50:29] <javahorn> Hi
[11:50:33] <scruz> ~xor
[11:50:33] <javabot> scruz, what does that even *mean*?
[11:50:40] <xeviox> freeone3000: this would work, but I don't like using exceptions when there is a high possibility that they may raise (then its not an exception ^^)
[11:50:42] <ztj> ~operators
[11:50:42] <javabot> ztj, operators is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/operators.html
[11:50:49] <javahorn> if i have to modify a signature, it says remove @Override,why so?
[11:51:12] <fr0ggler> javahorn, because it no longer matches the superclass' method signature?
[11:51:13] <ztj> javahorn: don't you know what @Override means?
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[11:51:30] <scruz> what fr0ggler said
[11:51:41] <javahorn> ztj: yes a bit, that is new flavour in the down hierarchy
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[11:51:48] <scruz> override means you're exactly matching the signature
[11:51:55] <javahorn> fr0ggler: superclass does not have it explicitly
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[11:52:10] <ztj> javahorn: no it means the method it's adorning directly overrides (or implements in the case of interfaces) a parent class's method (or interface's method)
[11:52:33] <ztj> javahorn: so if you change the super class/interface or the subclass method and it stops matching, you get warnings. It's a service to you.
[11:52:57] <ztj> javahorn: now you know that your overridden method isn't actually matching any super class's method
[11:53:11] <ztj> javahorn: so either you need to fix the other part of the equation or remove override because you don't actually want to be overriding
[11:53:25] <javahorn> ztj: ok, let me go to other half
[11:54:19] <javahorn> ztj: fr0ggler thanks
[11:54:31] <scruz> well, that's...new
[11:55:47] <ztj> heheh someone looked at my geese
[11:56:10] <Phil-Work> campaign2 is "17364_gill christmas gifts" and campaign2.matches("^[0-9]{3,}_") returns false
[11:56:14] <Phil-Work> what's wrong there? :S
[11:56:57] <Phil-Work> hm, does the whole string need to match?
[11:56:59] <ztj> Phil: it has to match the string as a whole, it's not find it's matches
[11:57:01] <Phil-Work> i.e. do I need a .* at the end
[11:57:03] <ztj> yes
[11:57:07] <Phil-Work> ah, thanks :)
[11:57:15] <Phil-Work> thus I don't need the ^?
[11:57:30] <ztj> not really but I don't think it hurts anything
[11:57:35] <Phil-Work> alright, thanks
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[12:00:06] * scruz mutters to javabot xor is exclusive or
[12:01:13] <Niek> [11:47:14] scruz can't believe that he forgot that a ^ 0 = a <-- if you're talking about math, a^0=1
[12:02:13] <scruz> Niek: really? try it on a calculator. any numeric value xor'ed with 0 returns itself
[12:02:40] <Niek> ah, xor'd
[12:02:51] <Niek> ^ is also the notation for power.
[12:02:59] <Niek> exponent
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[12:03:01] <scruz> not in computing it's not
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[12:03:04] <Niek> true.
[12:03:06] <ztj> not in java you mean
[12:03:21] <Niek> but I thought you were talking about math, that's why I said "if youre talking about math"
[12:03:35] <scruz> or C, or C++, or C#...
[12:03:47] <Niek> it was unclear for me if you meant xor or pow with ^
[12:03:59] <Niek> try it in the Google calculator with ^ ;-)
[12:04:00] <scruz> don't mind me
[12:04:49] <ztj> scruz: never fear, it is impossible for your mind to be as hazy as this landscape http://bit.ly/gVCNci
[12:05:23] <ztj> Niek: I suspect its syntax matches unix bc
[12:05:27] <scruz> ztj: you sure do take a lot of photos, don't you?
[12:05:41] <ztj> scruz: it's what photographers do
[12:06:00] <ztj> even amateur ones
[12:06:15] <scruz> and would i be correct in assuming that statement implies you are a photographer?
[12:06:33] <ztj> enthusiastically
[12:07:08] <ztj> Hm I only have 287 photos publicly visible. Not too many for less than one year in the hobby
[12:07:16] * scruz goes off on a mental tangent and plans how to convince ztj that the camera, and not he, takes the photos
[12:07:36] <ztj> scruz: you would have a hard time convincing any actual photographer of that sentiment
[12:07:56] <ztj> Like claiming a painter does not paint, but his brush does.
[12:08:08] <pZombie> there is no photo
[12:08:14] <scruz> and all of them would have a hard time printing photographs from memories
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[12:08:36] <ztj> A camera does nothing on its own
[12:08:51] <pZombie> the photographer picks the motive
[12:08:55] <scruz> a camera does camera stuff on its own
[12:09:01] <ztj> a camera does nothing on its own
[12:09:12] <pZombie> it does a lot on it s on
[12:09:19] <scruz> it looks like a camera on its own. that has *got* to count, doesn't it?
[12:09:19] <ztj> no, it does nothing until prompted
[12:09:21] <pZombie> it can even take photos on it s own
[12:09:28] <ztj> only if instructed to do so
[12:09:35] * scruz will stop pulling ztj's leg now
[12:10:16] * ztj pushes the dissenters in front of this train http://flic.kr/p/8TQxEz
[12:10:48] * scruz doesn't hear the dissenters' screams
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[12:10:57] <pZombie> those photos have nicer colors than reality
[12:11:08] <scruz> officer, it's ztj! he killed all those peoples!
[12:11:21] <ztj> pZombie: you must not have seen reality, it's pretty colorful
[12:11:37] <pZombie> not as colorful as your photos
[12:11:41] <ztj> sure it is
[12:12:19] <Peej> Java is just great.
[12:12:32] <Peej> that is all.
[12:12:44] <ztj> Java keeps me employed so that is pretty great.
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[12:14:50] <ztj> pZombie: the human perception of light and color is so incredibly askew, what with the effects of the physics of the eye, the limits of the optical nerve and the huge amount of subconscious reconstruction that goes on in the brain (you know, the center of your vision in each eye is blind. It is in everyone.)
[12:17:57] <pZombie> is it possible to combine zoom + magnifying into one camera lens?
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[12:18:26] <pZombie> like zoom in 50x to someones face, and then magnify one of his pimples x5?
[12:18:52] <pZombie> or even combine that with microscopy
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[12:20:18] <scruz> pZombie: one camera lens generally has a single focal length. all the zoom and stuff works by combining several lenses iirc
[12:20:36] <fr0ggler> pZombie, magnification is a factor of "zoom" (or focal length)
[12:20:59] <pZombie> yes, but usually you can zoom to someone's face, but you cannot get down to watch cells on his skin move
[12:21:16] <fr0ggler> pZombie, that's because the "zoom" doesn't go far enough
[12:21:36] <pZombie> like, you i attach the output of that zoom objective which does 50x to a microscope input and get to see cells?
[12:21:39] <scruz> i think that's because the cells on his skin are dead, too
[12:22:21] <pZombie> well, i read somewhere that once there existed such a magnifying zoom objective
[12:22:39] <ztj> pZombie: theoretically that's possible but the optic would be pretty huge
[12:22:55] <fr0ggler> pZombie, light accumulation would be a distinct problem. there are adapter lenses that magnify but you lose on f values.
[12:23:07] <ztj> it's actually quite hard to make lenses that have high enough resolution to produce that small of a thing at a visible size from a distance
[12:23:08] <scruz> yup. hence the close-up for microscopes
[12:23:14] <pZombie> why are you all experts on optics ffs?
[12:23:23] <scruz> what's an f-value, anyway?
[12:23:24] <pZombie> i feel like i am surrounded by aliens
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[12:23:39] <scruz> i did physics some years back. like 13 or so
[12:23:40] <fr0ggler> scruz, indeed and hence the reason why light microscopes have large lighting rigs
[12:23:49] <fr0ggler> pZombie, and it's kind of common sense :)
[12:23:56] <ztj> scruz: he's referring to aperture which is not really the right thing, t-stops is what he should be referring to but aperture ratios imply change in t-stops
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[12:24:02] <ztj> (though it varies by lens)
[12:24:04] <fr0ggler> pZombie, why do you think the better telescopes have larger apertures?
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[12:24:21] <psst> pZombie: then why did you ask on ##java?
[12:24:25] <fr0ggler> psst, heh
[12:24:34] <ztj> actually better telescopes have smaller apertures, which allows for finer detail
[12:24:46] <[switch]> the things you can learn in a ##java channel..
[12:24:51] <ztj> smaller aperture lenses are a bigger challenge due to diffraction
[12:24:59] <pZombie> intuition i guess i would find all experts on optics in the ##java channel
[12:25:04] <fr0ggler> ztj, its a balance between focal length and aperture
[12:25:07] <[switch]> lol
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[12:25:12] <fr0ggler> at least, how I understood it
[12:25:16] <ztj> pZombie: it's not that hard to learn about lenses, the factors haven't changed much in 100 years
[12:25:27] <ztj> fr0ggler: depends on the type of lens, the purpose, etc.
[12:25:32] <fr0ggler> ztj, aye.
[12:25:37] <pZombie> i d like to create my own modular lenses
[12:25:48] <fr0ggler> pZombie, you can. lenses and adapters exist
[12:25:49] <ztj> wide apertures allow incidental light which causes circles of confusion which is not desirable for scientific purposes
[12:25:50] <pZombie> so i can build modular objectives for all purposes
[12:26:16] <fr0ggler> ztj, but magnification ability decreases I guess.
[12:26:17] <ztj> you can combine lenses but without the design to do so in the first place you'll often see quick degradation of resolution or quality in one form or another
[12:26:31] <fr0ggler> hence, electron microscopes. there's only so far you can go with light.
[12:27:00] <scruz> those only work in a vaccuum. no crawling cells here
[12:27:10] <dreamreal> morning
[12:27:14] <fr0ggler> hey dreamreal
[12:27:22] <scruz> afternoon
[12:27:40] <ztj> fr0ggler: well now you'll get into the realm of actual aperture size to subject size ratios rather than focal length to aperture ratios but yeah it impacts things at certain scales
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[12:27:44] <fr0ggler> you've joined us in a very java related microscopy session.
[12:27:53] <fr0ggler> ztj, yeah.
[12:27:54] <dreamreal> oh?
[12:28:05] <ztj> but regular skin cells aren't all that small
[12:28:11] <fr0ggler> i can see mine!
[12:28:13] <ztj> no need for an electron microscope for that :)
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[12:28:49] <ztj> however there is a bigger problem for imaging at that magnification which is of course the extremely shallow depth of field (hence the need for narrowest possible aperture for the subject size)
[12:29:08] <_W_> there's an actual photography channel on this network, only I can't remember its name, and it's apparently +s
[12:29:19] <ztj> if you were going to try and image a cell from a distance you'd have issues with intersecting the focal plane and the cells
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[12:29:50] <jink> _W_: search your logs? :/
[12:29:58] <ztj> it's the whole reason you flatting shit out on a slide when you use a microscope
[12:30:02] <ztj> err flatten
[12:30:03] <DroidAgent> Where's cheeser? :D
[12:30:09] <_W_> haven't been in it for over a year, and don't have logs that far back
[12:30:15] <_W_> ~be cheeser
[12:30:15] <javabot> that's very interesting, but what's that got to do with java?
[12:30:25] <DroidAgent> :)))
[12:30:45] <jink> _W_: /msg alis list *photo* ?
[12:31:33] <_W_> I did a /list and it didn't have it, so I am guessing it's actually secret
[12:32:05] <jink> I'm not sure how alis handles that, but you might be right.
[12:33:07] <_W_> (or have since moved network or otherwise disappeared)
[12:33:10] <ztj> well #photography is +s
[12:33:26] <ztj> er well #photogeeks which is what it forwards to
[12:33:38] <_W_> photogeeks! that was it
[12:34:09] <_W_> also, duh on the #photography redirect
[12:35:08] <_W_> so, yes, everyone buzz off to #photogeeks :p
[12:35:29] <jink> :P
[12:35:47] <_W_> anyone know of a compression algorithm specifically tailored to Java source code?
[12:35:48] <pZombie> Just one last question, since there are so many experts on optics here. What would happen if i use a high quality lens which is usually used to check diamonds and such, and can magnify 15x optical in high quality, and then put that lens in front of a high resolution CMOS digital cam with the objective removed, at the right distance, would it magnify the object in front of the lens when recording video?
[12:35:54] <ztj> it may be the only channel on fn with more snark than this one
[12:36:50] <javahorn> ztj: public class A extends B implements C I changed the signature of a method createItem on interface C. Remove @Override in implementation class A and pass the two new param in createItem. But it warns of creating method in B(even though i create it, still it throws exception)
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[12:37:38] <ztj> pZombie: depends on the lens and where it casts its light in focus and the size of that circle, but it's theoretically possible. FYI, there are microscopic lenses for modern (D)SLR cameras. They are specialty but they exist.
[12:39:25] <pZombie> they are also very expensive
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[12:39:34] <fr0ggler> pZombie, good lenses generally are
[12:39:45] <Guyman> if i implement Comparator in java, is the implementing class should be abstract?
[12:40:01] <FauxFaux> Guyman: Given you need to instanciate it?
[12:40:13] <Guyman> why would i need to?
[12:40:20] <Guyman> i just use it as static
[12:40:21] <FauxFaux> To pass it to people?
[12:40:26] <Guyman> umm
[12:40:32] <Guyman> i dont know yet, but i got your point
[12:40:40] <Guyman> mostly it would be abstract, right?
[12:40:46] <ztj> pZombie: lenses are tough to make and have a relatively low level of demand and what's worse, once you get a good one you pretty much never have to replace it (unless you can't find a proper mount for a newer imager or whatever)
[12:41:08] <javahorn> ztj: what is being missed?
[12:41:11] <ztj> hell I just proudly bought a Nikkor lens that was new 10 years ago. Loving it. Will probably keep loving it for years.
[12:41:27] <ztj> javahorn: pastebin dude, I can't answer your theoreticals which could just be flat out wrong
[12:41:34] <FauxFaux> Guyman: An implementation of a single-method interface would be abstract? No? Why?
[12:41:54] <_W_> Guyman, your question really makes no sense
[12:42:00] <Guyman> why not?
[12:42:24] <Guyman> we dont need to instanciate usally, we just prove it 2 objects and get an int back
[12:42:29] <Guyman> provide(
[12:42:30] <_W_> Guyman, every implementation I have made of Comparator has been public final
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[12:42:40] <Guyman> ok..
[12:42:50] <_W_> (if you don't know, final rules out abstract)
[12:43:00] <Guyman> i know
[12:43:04] <ztj> Guyman: because the interface defines Comparators as things you instantiate then provide the instance. Nothing stops you from providing the same actual instance everywhere, but you still have to have one.
[12:43:59] <Guyman> alright
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[13:00:20] <pZombie> does Thread.yield() actually work? It seems to return way faster than the lowest Thread.sleep(1) one could use.
[13:01:07] <tjololo> I think yield only allows other threads to execute before the thread you called yield on
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[13:02:11] <FauxFaux> Operating systems don't trust programmers to yield sensibly 'cos generally they don't. Also, it soundsl ike you're using it wrong if you care about how long it takes.
[13:02:48] <_W_> in general, you don't use yield
[13:03:22] <tjololo> if there is no other threads waiting to execute then yield will not pause (asfar as you can notice)
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[13:07:53] <javahorn> ztj: http://pastebin.com/0dngJgEV
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[13:25:05] <topriddy> hi, am having problems integrating guice with jersey running in my web app, Daos are injected in the pages but not in the web services. i googled jersey-guice, used the lib, didnt work still, seems the versions arent maintained. any pointers?
[13:28:02] <RLa> why not just use jersey and guice
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[13:35:17] <Peej> any pointers, no sorry not in Java.
[13:35:25] <Peej> Did you see what i did thar?!
[13:35:52] <Peej> Sorry topriddy, i cant actually help but i thought i'd be funny and bring some laughter :>
[13:36:30] <dreamreal> Peej: it's not so funny when you're wrong, though :)
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[13:44:47] <topriddy> RLa: couldnt get guice to inject into Jersey by default. even when same daos were injecting successfully into my Wicket web pages
[13:45:14] <RLa> i read that with jersey you cannot use constructor injection
[13:46:22] <topriddy> RLa: i am doing field injection. ie public class Foo{@Inject PersonDao personDao; public Foo(){}}
[13:46:38] <RLa> hm, weird
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[13:47:52] <Peej> :(
[13:48:37] <Peej> dreamreal, people can laught at me. All are merry!
[13:49:05] * tjsnell laughs
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[13:56:27] <Vorrin> hello, I'm displaying a Jlist in a Jscrollpane in a Jpanel. Weirdly the scrollpanel scrolls down way past the end of the list which only contains a handful of elements. Does anyone have an idea about what I am doing wrong?
[13:58:34] <Vorrin> oh, I had initialized the list as a massive one, which was not needed, obviously I noticed now that I asked, rather than in the past hour that I've been trying to work out why -_-
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[13:59:41] <pythonirc101> how do i find out whether my java installation is 32-bit or 64-bit on windows (preferably from the command line)
[14:00:13] <dreamreal> pythonirc101: java -version
[14:00:23] <dreamreal> here, I'll show you
[14:00:28] <dreamreal> java version "1.6.0_20"
[14:00:28] <dreamreal> OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea6 1.9.7) (6b20-1.9.7-0ubuntu1~10.04.1)
[14:00:28] <dreamreal> OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 19.0-b09, mixed mode)
[14:00:35] <dreamreal> see that "64-Bit" there?
[14:00:40] <pythonirc101> java version "1.6.0_23", Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_23-b05), Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 19.0-b09, mixed mode, sharing)
[14:00:46] <pythonirc101> I dont see a 64/32 there?
[14:00:53] <ztj> then it's 32 bit
[14:00:58] <pythonirc101> thanks
[14:01:00] <dreamreal> then it's 32
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[14:01:12] <ztj> pythonirc101: 64 bit is still largely a "special" case
[14:01:21] <ztj> as it offers almost no benefit beyond a larger max heap
[14:01:31] <ztj> (and some specific algorithms are faster, like gzip for some reason)
[14:01:47] <pythonirc101> thanks
[14:06:48] <mitch0> gzip is phased out anyways with xz :)
[14:07:42] <ztj> ha
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[14:08:00] <ztj> just like a thousand other things set to replace pkzip have not succeeded
[14:08:18] <ztj> gzip will continue to be, for a very long time, the most compatible compression in certain contexts
[14:10:50] <pythonirc101> when i run a java program (weka), I get this error: Not enough memory. How can i increase the heap size for weka?
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[14:14:22] <wilfredor> Good afternoon
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[14:14:35] <wilfredor> I'm a ANT user
[14:14:49] <wilfredor> I'm trying build a big proyect
[14:14:56] <wilfredor> but I have the follow error "at org.apache.tools.ant.taskdefs.Javac.compile(Javac.java:999)"
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[14:15:12] <wilfredor> I changed the ANT memory size
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[14:17:27] <Candle> ~~ wilfredor enter
[14:17:28] <javabot> wilfredor, enter is not punctuation. Please don't press your Enter or Return key until you've finished typing your question, sentence, or idea. It is annoying to see that and hard to follow.
[14:17:34] <Candle> ~ wilfredor paraphrase
[14:17:35] <javabot> Candle, what does that even *mean*?
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[14:17:47] <ztj> ~don't paraphrase
[14:17:47] <javabot> ztj, what does that even *mean*?
[14:17:50] <ztj> it's gone
[14:17:52] <ztj> jerks
[14:18:00] <Candle> ~~ wilfredor paraphrase
[14:18:01] <javabot> wilfredor, Don't paraphrase code or errors. If you knew what was important to show us, you wouldn't need us to answer your question. You should pastebin the *actual* code and the *actual* error. Anything else is most likely going to be useless.
[14:18:11] <ztj> ah I see you forgot a ~
[14:18:14] <Candle> no, I just failed at adding two ~.
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[14:19:31] <vague`> Anyone have experience with the MQSeries java classes, how is the writing to remote clustered queues? Simple to setup? I'm attempting this in perl atm and it's driving me nuts. I would like to have some forknowledge before I start with java if possible.
[14:20:02] <wilfredor> Candle: the full mistake is here http://java.pastebin.com/5aRAAFFV
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[14:23:54] <Candle> wilfredor: Ok, so there's a compiler error somewhere, find where the ant task has put the output from the compiler and fix it.
[14:24:20] <wilfredor> I can't to see the compiler output
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[14:26:17] <wilfredor> If someone could help me try to do everything possible to facilitate the help, I hope you can understand that my knowledge of ant is almost nil
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[14:26:45] <Candle> Can you compile the project without ant?
[14:27:15] <wilfredor> I have read the tutorials online, and I understand to some extent, however, the performance for certain cases of the tool is what I do not know
[14:27:21] <paulweb515> wilfredor: http://ant.apache.org/manual/
[14:27:31] <paulweb515> wilfredor: can't you find your javac task and ask for verbose output?
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[14:27:48] <wilfredor> The project can be compiled fine without ant
[14:27:55] <wilfredor> paulweb515: I readed already that
[14:28:12] <dreamreal> wilfredor: why are you using ant?
[14:28:27] <wilfredor> I even read a book about ant, however, I am not familiar with their errors
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[14:28:32] <paulweb515> wilfredor: and does your javac task product verbose output?
[14:28:47] <wilfredor> dreamreal: It is a requirement to automate builds
[14:29:19] <wilfredor> paulweb515: ant build build.xml -debug =
[14:29:28] <dreamreal> wilfredor: Maven.
[14:29:43] <Candle> wilfredor: Check the javac task and remove anything that isn't completely needed. The 'nowarn' should definitly be the default: 'off'.
[14:29:50] <paulweb515> wilfredor: that's not the javac task I've now mentioned twice
[14:30:01] <paulweb515> wilfredor: you are the one with the build.xml, you *must* read it
[14:30:05] <paulweb515> ~~ wilfredor rif
[14:30:06] <javabot> wilfredor, Reading Is Fundamental
[14:30:36] <Candle> It's probably at line 71 of the build.xml, you know, as the error message says.
[14:31:13] <wilfredor> That line has nothing in particular that would suggest an error. I think so
[14:31:54] <Candle> You know what was said about paraphrasing earlier, that includes the code that is failing.
[14:32:09] <wilfredor> My build.xml is here http://java.pastebin.com/222xH2MB
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[14:32:46] <ojacobson> this is reminding me why I don't use ant any more
[14:32:54] <ojacobson> <jottinger> wilfredor: Maven.
[14:33:06] <wilfredor> Candle: There is no code that is failing. I think it's a configuration problem of tool
[14:34:42] <ojacobson> build.xml is effectively code (albiet code written in an XML dialect).
[14:34:42] <wilfredor> ojacobson: I have no choice, I can only use ant
[14:34:48] <ojacobson> It's strongly imperative.
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[14:35:41] <Candle> ojacobson: I still use a little ant, but only in maven-antrun-plugin.
[14:35:56] <Mwa> Is there a way to silence all warnings in a package? JSON doesn't use generics in any of it's multitude of tangles, and it's driving Eclipse mad.
[14:36:04] <ojacobson> Candle: you can package up small ant scripts and use them as maven plugins. The plugin machinery supports it pretty reasonably.
[14:36:51] <ojacobson> Mwa: Use existing compiled versions rather than compiling it yourself (it's in central as org.json:json
[14:37:08] <ojacobson> Or use a less jank json library
[14:37:16] <Candle> ojacobson: Yes, creating a small maven plugin is pretty easy. but it *is* more initial work then throwing in an antrun definition.
[14:38:37] <dreamreal> wilfredor: why can you only use ant?
[14:39:20] <wilfredor> This is a standard among all enterprise-level developers
[14:39:26] <ojacobson> nnnnot so much, no
[14:40:02] <wilfredor> It is a requirement of the application, you can think that way
[14:40:18] <Candle> The 'enterprise' needs to update it's skill set then.
[14:41:03] <wilfredor> That's another problem, however, is not something that is going to do now or at some time
[14:42:04] <dreamreal> wilfredor: *nod* pragmatism always wins, just sucks when it's necessary like that
[14:42:55] <wilfredor> you're right
[14:42:56] <wilfredor> I agree
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[14:43:23] <Keepers> someone familiar with jsp expression language?
[14:43:30] <Candle> ( wilfredor: you still need to find the output of the compiler that the an task is calling)
[14:43:33] <FauxFaux> ~~ Keepers ask
[14:43:33] <javabot> Keepers, The Ask To Ask protocol wastes more bandwidth than any version of the Ask protocol, so just ask your question.
[14:43:41] <dreamreal> although what *I* would do is use maven, and tell it to build an ant script for you just to satisfy the "we use ant" requirement
[14:43:42] <Candle> ~~ Keepers anyone
[14:43:42] <javabot> Keepers, Chances are someone has, so why not just ask your question and save some time? If someone knows and wants/has time to help, perhaps he/she will.
[14:43:49] <wilfredor> Candle: It's a windows bug
[14:44:05] <wilfredor> not resolved
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[14:44:14] <Keepers> i want to check if a parameter exists or not in a <c: if test="${}"></c:if>
[14:44:54] <Keepers> its like: <c:if test="${empty files.audio_transfer.uri and (not exist) param.defaultaudio_transfer}">
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[14:47:52] <aLeSD> maybe it's a stupid question. But is it a real cast? float x = 0.5f; Float y = (Float)x; ?
[14:48:06] <dreamreal> no.
[14:48:30] <aLeSD> dreamreal, in any VM implementation ?
[14:48:44] <wilfredor> the same mistake. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/lucene-solr-user/200909.mbox/%3C5e76b0ad0909191130h3017c4e3p1b36228eba55510c at mail dot gmail.com%3E
[14:48:50] <aLeSD> (that was the stupid question)
[14:49:05] <dreamreal> aLeSD: errrrrrr
[14:49:06] <wilfredor> unsolved
[14:49:26] <dreamreal> I would imagine the java spec would cover this fairly clearly. It's not a cast: autoboxing is a conversion.
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[15:07:32] <scruz> is there a way to get the number of actual bytes stored in a byte array? to clarify, if you write into a byte array but you don't write into the entire array, is there a way to get the number of 'filled spaces' as it were?
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[15:08:30] <Skyec> by filled spaces, do you mean non-0?
[15:08:32] <ojacobson> scruz: There's no such concept.
[15:08:37] <scruz> yup
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[15:08:51] <scruz> ok
[15:08:55] <Skyec> is there a way to differiate between a valid 0 value and an empty value
[15:09:09] <scruz> i don't think so
[15:09:17] <Skyec> it sounds like you should probably be using a stream
[15:09:21] <scruz> well, 0 isn't null
[15:09:22] <cheeser> not with a primitive
[15:09:54] <Skyec> scruz: this might be helpful. http://download.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/essential/io/bytestreams.html
[15:10:20] <ztj> Skyec: java doesn't allow you to compile code that reads a variable that doesn't have a "valid value"
[15:10:42] <Skyec> it was more of a concept for what he was using it. not a syntatical one
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[15:11:20] <Skyec> because if he is actually writing 0s through his byte array, he's going to have to track the length externally
[15:11:29] <Skyec> otherwise, he could just use a loop, although that might be expensive
[15:11:33] <ztj> which is a perfectly common thing to do
[15:11:45] <Skyec> ztj: ofc, but its worth asking anyway
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[15:12:12] <wilfredor> Thanks for everything, I think my problem is too complex to hope that someone can devote so much time to help me. Have good day
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[15:39:38] <alex88> hi guys, i'm using this code, http://pastebin.com/ej7HtLAF for replacing a region of an image with the bufferedimage i supply, but writer.replacePixels is throwing exception UnsupportedOperationException, docs says that's because canReplacePixels is returning false, how can i know why it returns file? due file format or what?
[15:39:55] <alex88> *false
[15:41:09] <saml> so if it can'tReplacePixels, then you should not call replacePixels
[15:41:27] <saml> why not create a new Image and copy the entire image with replaced pixels?
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[15:42:34] <alex88> because the image is very big and i get outofmemory trying to load it into memory, so i've done readimg that reads a region of image, then process it, and then write the processed one in the same region of a new image.
[15:43:14] <alex88> i'm thinking to create a new empty image compatible with replacepixels but i've no idea what's supported.
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[15:45:07] <saml> alex88, it doesn't make sense for JPG writers to replace pixels
[15:45:27] <saml> maybe try "BMP"
[15:45:44] <saml> ImageIO.getImageWritersByFormatName("BMP").next();
[15:46:06] <alex88> saml: the final image should already exists right?
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[15:46:56] <saml> can you pipe streams?
[15:47:01] <saml> i don't know how imageio works..
[15:47:17] <alex88> i'm new to that too.. i'll try more... thank you
[15:47:22] <saml> but since image output is jpg.. writer is bmp..
[15:47:36] <saml> bmp | jpg | output
[15:48:03] <saml> do u have fully runnable program and demo image?
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[15:48:35] <alex88> because i've to do like a parallel processing, block by block and the reassemble the whole image using map reduce.
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[15:48:48] <alex88> i've a sample image of 16kx16kx pixels for test.
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[15:49:10] <saml> no.. i'm not interested in parallel processingp art
[15:49:38] <saml> anyway try to pipe it. i think it's possible
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[15:50:35] <saml> like.. bmpWriter.setOutput(jpgOutputStream);
[15:50:38] <saml> no i'm confused
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[15:52:22] <Artefact2> hello. why does System.err.println("[quote]\n".matches("quote")); prints false? what am I doing wrong?
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[15:52:55] <deebo> because .matches is a regular expression
[15:53:03] <deebo> you want .contains (or similiar)
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[15:53:16] <Artefact2> deebo: but "quote" is a valid regular expression too
[15:53:21] <cheeser> and it matches the whole string. and "quote" doesn't end with \n
[15:53:23] <deebo> .matches("\[quote\]") would match
[15:53:37] <deebo> oh yeah and add the \n
[15:53:45] <Artefact2> oooh. so java regexes have ^ and $ implied at the beginning/end?
[15:53:45] <deebo> altho i think without dotall mode it will match anyhow
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[15:55:16] <ojacobson> Artefact2: No, .matches checks that the entire region matches the regex.
[15:55:33] <ojacobson> You can simulate .matches with \A and \Z and find, though
[15:56:14] <Artefact2> ojacobson: ooh, right. .find() is exactly what I am looking for, thanks!
[15:56:41] <Artefact2> (i am used to php regexes, and preg_match doen't match only the whole string)
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[15:59:31] <_W_> preg_match always reminds me that PHP is pregnant with failure
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[15:59:57] <ojacobson> preg_match is, would you believe, a potential code-injection vector :-(
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[16:01:06] <osmosis_paul> hello a simple question to read a file the path that i have to write is from my project right?
[16:01:14] <osmosis_paul> if my project is A anmd i have my file in B that is inside A the path would be /A/B/file right?
[16:02:29] <fr0ggler> osmosis_paul, that seems like a simple question, but I'm confused as to what you're trying to do
[16:02:50] <mitch0> fr0ggler: he's trying to confuse use
[16:02:57] <fr0ggler> he's doing a good job
[16:03:00] <Skyec> i don't need any help being confused
[16:03:34] <osmosis_paul> becuase i'm writing the path from project root without the project name of course path="/public/images/import/File" but File file = new File(Path) dont get anything
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[16:04:02] <fr0ggler> osmosis_paul, what's a project got to do with it? and what actually is a "project"?
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[16:04:17] <osmosis_paul> once that i have the file i want to remove it file.delete()
[16:04:48] <osmosis_paul> proyect
[16:04:55] <fr0ggler> osmosis_paul, right ok. well it seems the confusion arises from where you think a "project" should store its files
[16:05:10] <fr0ggler> what do you mean by "project"? like in an IDE?
[16:05:39] <osmosis_paul> Java proyect
[16:05:49] <ojacobson> Java doesn't have a concept of projects
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[16:06:07] <fr0ggler> osmosis_paul, project doesn't mean anything in J... what ojacobson said
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[16:06:45] <osmosis_paul> ojacobson, new java project in Eclipse? what IDE use? or use notpad :-P
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[16:06:57] <ojacobson> osmosis_paul: that's entirely an IDE-specific concepts.
[16:06:57] <fr0ggler> osmosis_paul, it makes no difference
[16:06:58] <ojacobson> concept.
[16:07:07] <ojacobson> From Java's point of view, it's just classes, resources, and the filesystem
[16:07:35] <ojacobson> You *probably* want getResource or getResourceAsStream for resources that are going to be part of your program (images, etc), though.
[16:07:38] <ojacobson> ~resources
[16:07:38] <javabot> Put your resources inside the jar file together with your class files, then use YourClassName.class.getResourceAsStream("foo.png") for images in the same directory as your class file, or YourClassName.class.getResourceAsStream("/images/foo.png") if your resources are in a dir named 'images' in the root of the jar file. Do NOT use ClassLoader.getResource. More info: http://is.gd/4IGHp
[16:07:49] <osmosis_paul> Ok in Eclipse you can separate by "projects" in others IDE's as Inteligent you cannot
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[16:07:53] <fr0ggler> osmosis_paul, you need to figure out how to reference that file path, i.e. relative to a given path or classloader, or absolute to a given path or classloader
[16:07:58] <fr0ggler> *blargh*
[16:08:03] <ojacobson> netsplat
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[16:08:37] <fr0ggler> osmosis_paul, forget the concept of a project. think of your program and its resources.
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[16:10:40] <osmosis_paul> well again, it is possible use this path path="/public/images/import/File" where public is one of the root folders?
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[16:11:08] <fr0ggler> osmosis_paul, possibly. we don't know your filesystem or permissions. read the link that ojacobson gave you.
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[16:16:27] <saml> is there a way to include a.jsp inside b.jsp so that a.jsp has all variables defined in b.jsp?
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[16:16:56] <saml> b.jsp has <% final boolean isBlah = true; %> and I want to include a.jsp that uses isBla
[16:17:00] <saml> isBlah
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[16:17:20] <dreamreal> sure
[16:17:23] <dreamreal> everything's POSSIBLE
[16:17:35] <ojacobson> ##java is the new zombo.com, confirm/deny
[16:17:46] <ojacobson> Putting code in your JSPs is still a bad idea, though
[16:17:51] <mitch0> what's the old zombo.com?
[16:17:54] <ojacobson> zombo.com
[16:18:08] <ojacobson> related: http://html5zombo.com/
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[16:18:28] <gtrak> welcome to zombo com
[16:18:59] <cheeser> this is zombocom!
[16:19:38] <fr0ggler> erm. what's this zombo of which you speak? I see spangly balls.
[16:19:56] <fr0ggler> it seems i've been out-memed.
[16:20:03] <mitch0> actually, it's kinda relaxing
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[16:20:15] <fr0ggler> hm to me it's about as relaxing as comic sans.
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[16:20:22] <ojacobson> Turn on your speakers
[16:20:29] <fr0ggler> oh god no. not... sound.
[16:20:37] <ojacobson> Do it. I know things. Listen to me.
[16:20:51] <dreamreal> sound is overrated. You should avoid it.
[16:20:54] <dreamreal> I know this!
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[16:21:15] <fr0ggler> oh lord.
[16:21:28] <osmosis_paul> fr0ggler, thanks for the info.
[16:21:36] <osmosis_paul> ojacobson, thanks for the info.
[16:21:54] <fr0ggler> there are two things of which I am now sure. firstly that it is zombocom. and secondly that I am welcome.
[16:22:11] <cheeser> http://html5zombo.com/
[16:22:16] <cheeser> modernized!
[16:22:34] <fr0ggler> aw it stopped.
[16:22:46] <ojacobson> cheeser: <ojacobson> related: http://html5zombo.com/
[16:22:47] <ojacobson> oldmeme
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[16:23:01] <ojacobson> The HTML comments in it are gold
[16:23:02] <cheeser> oh. missed that.
[16:23:06] <cheeser> 8^)=
[16:23:07] <mitch0> the htlm5 version is better. I missed yellow in the original
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[16:24:17] <ojacobson> saml: zombo.com notwithstanding, I would seriously avoid <% code %> and <%! code %> constructs
[16:24:23] <ojacobson> They have a nasty habit of turning into PHP
[16:24:44] <ojacobson> If all you need is something to hang EL and c:if off of, c:set or jsp:useBean can create a java.lang.Boolean and initialize it
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[16:25:12] <gtrak> mm delicious php mysql html spaghetti
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[16:29:02] <AUTx> if I have this method: http://pastebin.com/02P5YYVL How could I return a location which is opposite to what would normally be returned?
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[16:29:17] <AUTx> so instead of closer it gets a location +1 further
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[16:29:47] <saml> how can I introduce a property in my jsp? I tried <jsp:setProperty name="stuff" property="entryToEdit" value="<%= entryToEdit %>"/> but I get null pointer exception
[16:30:41] <seicherlbob> hi! I would like to lookup the local IP address, but InetAddress.getLocalHost() only returns <myhostname>/127.0.0.1. I set a custom securitymanager (for testing) that allows any connect attempt, but still, I only get the loopback address. can someone help me?
[16:31:10] <ojacobson> seicherlbob: which one?
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[16:31:30] <ojacobson> A single host can have many IP addresses. You can interrogate NetworkInterface to find them all, but you need some way to decide which to use.
[16:32:19] <seicherlbob> ojacobson: well, if i ask about "www.google.com" I get all addresses with getAllByName. but for my host, i only get the loopback
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[16:32:56] <_W_> seicherlbob, are you asking for the address of localhost, by any chance?
[16:33:15] <_W_> it's a common standard to have localhost resolve to the loopback ip
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[16:33:35] <_W_> seicherlbob, what do you need this address for?
[16:33:46] <seicherlbob> _W_: I call getLocalHost(), which tells me my hostname. Then i lookup all adresses for the hostname
[16:34:10] <ojacobson> seicherlbob: You remind me of that parable about a man searching for his keys under the streetlight
[16:34:11] <seicherlbob> _W_: I'd like to build a debugging/administration panel for a client application
[16:34:13] <ojacobson> stop trying the thing that doesn't work
[16:34:22] <_W_> seicherlbob, and what does the IP have to do with that?
[16:34:51] <seicherlbob> _W_: well, for a system administrator it would be nice to know the clients IP, if the serverconnection fails.
[16:35:08] <_W_> then I would suggest you do as ojacobson say - iterate the interfaces, and list up all addresses
[16:35:20] <_W_> they might only be able to reach it on one or a few of the ones
[16:35:27] <seicherlbob> _W_: the list only contains the loopback
[16:35:33] <ojacobson> seicherlbob: you could ask the socket what IP address it used
[16:35:34] * Skyec searches for the streetlights above his keys
[16:35:36] <ojacobson> that information is available
[16:35:37] <_W_> (or might not be able to reach it on any - if it is behind NAT for instance)
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[16:35:51] <_W_> seicherlbob, no, if you followed ojacobson's advice, you get them all
[16:36:27] <ojacobson> seicherlbob: Though honestly the only peer that can tell where a connection came from is the accepting peer, not the connecting peer
[16:36:32] <ojacobson> (due to NAT)
[16:36:50] <seicherlbob> ojacobson: it's an internal network without NAT
[16:36:53] <ojacobson> the connecting peer can determine which of its own IP addresses it used, though - that's available from the Socket object associated with the connection
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[16:41:36] <seicherlbob> thanks, the NetworkInterface.getNetworkInterfaces() did it!
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[16:50:32] <Archon> Can Swing components inherit the style settings (eg. font) as its parent component?
[16:51:09] <seicherlbob> Archon: Maybe you better edit the lookandfeel
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[16:53:55] <monk14> hello all, I had an java editing quest since its a lil' dead in #eclipse. I cannot set a breakpoint in eclipse for a jsp file. I realized its cause the default editor it uses with "Open With" is the "Java Editor", not the "JSP Editor". I can change each file's "Open With" setting, but was curious where to set the default. Hope its fine to ask in here.
[16:54:52] <jink> Nope, that's #eclipse specific. Someone might know, but don't expect too much. ^__^
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[16:55:05] <seicherlbob> monk14: I think you can set the default editor under General->editors->File Associations
[16:55:53] <monk14> seicherlbob, Thanks so much. works :).
[16:56:02] <seicherlbob> monk14: i just stepped over it recently, because i deactivated the POM editor (and changed to standard XML editor).
[16:56:12] <seicherlbob> monk14: you're welcome
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[17:20:12] <passwordoff> split
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[17:59:49] <jesmon`> ~eclipse++
[18:00:01] <javabot> eclipse has a karma level of -378, jesmon`
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[18:00:19] <dreamreal> jesmon`: cool! it must have given you an excuse for why your project was late or something?
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[18:00:45] <jesmon`> dreamreal: no, I don't have that plugin installed
[18:01:34] <jesmon`> but, I switched from IDEA a little over a week ago (after the update which introduced more bugs), and I'm actually liking it quite a bit
[18:02:19] <jesmon`> it has the best emacs key bindings of any java IDE I've tried :-)
[18:02:32] <dreamreal> it's part of the base IDE :/
[18:02:44] <dreamreal> wow
[18:02:47] <dreamreal> you're probably the second person ever to say that
[18:02:50] <dreamreal> which release of IDEA were you on?
[18:03:31] <jesmon`> dreamreal: 10.whatever, community edition. I like IDEA, but it became unusable for one of my projects
[18:04:16] <dreamreal> I've actually never used community
[18:04:40] <dreamreal> but I hate moving from IDEA, it's like going from a bullet train to a yugo, while the train is moving and the yugo ... isn't
[18:05:34] <jesmon`> there's certainly a transition involved. but, I'm quite happy so far with eclipse, and learning more cool things each day
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[18:05:50] <dreamreal> keep us informed when you discover what a piece d'crap it is :)
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[18:06:13] <jesmon`> sure thing :-)
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[18:13:44] <cheeser> i have a hard time believing that one.
[18:14:05] <cheeser> how big is your project? because i work on several large projects in IDEA and it's just fine.
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[18:16:59] <FauxFaux> Work are forcing me to use IDEA instead of Eclipse; I'm going to do a writeup at some point. Basically, anyone who claims IDEA is even remotely bug free, especially around the Swing stuff and the Maven integration, is just plain lying.
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[18:17:52] <jesmon`> cheeser: I don't think it was the size of the project. It was a combination of the mercurial support they "enhanced" in the update was causing unpreventable annoying popups, telling me the remote repo was invalid. The project makes pretty heavy use of generics, and IDEA started to freak out about some of it at roughly the same time. I generic parsing errors in Netbeans before, but not IDEA...Eclipses type checker seemed to have a
[18:17:52] <jesmon`> easier time.
[18:17:57] <dreamreal> FauxFaux: nobody says it's bugfree
[18:18:14] <cheeser> ah. yeah. last i checked, the hg support wasn't native
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[18:18:19] <cheeser> and rather flaky.
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[18:31:57] <aLeSD> hi all
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[18:33:08] <aLeSD> I have a class that has a method void m(List<List<Float>>) .. .how could I add a method m(List<Float>) ?
[18:33:10] <saml> hi aLeSD
[18:33:26] <saml> void m(List<Float> l); ?
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[18:33:32] <cheeser> aLeSD: you'd need a different name
[18:33:44] <saml> ah sorry
[18:34:03] <cheeser> i'm reasonably sure the compiler will complain if they're both named m()
[18:34:24] <waz> m1 and m2
[18:35:14] <aLeSD> ok
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[19:19:24] <sbalmos> I'm tias'ing in various incantations, but it doesn't look like I can specify that a millisecond component is optional for parsing in a DateFormat, can I?
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[19:21:18] <wyvern`> sbalmos, if there's an ISO8601 preset, try that
[19:21:20] <wyvern`> or joda time
[19:21:26] <kba> How would I create menu-like structure in a console application with Java? Like in Aptitude or when you install most Linux variants from the console?
[19:21:30] <wyvern`> (is threeten ready for use yet?)
[19:21:39] <wyvern`> kba, jansi or similar?
[19:21:40] <ernimril> sbalmos: for DateFormat you can create your own one that does it, if you mean SimpleDateFormat then no
[19:21:50] <sbalmos> wyvern`: This is in a proprietary system built on top of Java's, so I can't slap in Joda
[19:22:07] <sbalmos> I'm checking to see how close to ISO8601 the timestamps are
[19:22:09] <wyvern`> sbalmos, bummer
[19:22:14] <dmlloyd> ~threeten
[19:22:14] <javabot> dmlloyd, threeten is the JSR-310 reference implementation at http://sourceforge.net/projects/threeten (it replaces the older JSR-310 project at dev.java.net).
[19:22:39] <kba> wyvern`: isn't htat only for coloring stuff?
[19:23:06] <wyvern`> kba, dunno but in general ansi terminal controls is what you're looking for. Perhaps there's a java wrapper to ncurses
[19:23:39] <kba> ah yes, ncurses. That seems like something useful. I just needed a keyword to Google, thank you :)
[19:24:20] <wyvern`> ncurses is a little non-obvious of a name. :)
[19:24:24] <Fallout2man> Is there a way to specifically hide a class inside a jar you want to not be importable by anyone using that jar? Like let's say I had a class I needed to mark as public because I had a lot of packages and I needed it to be usable internally accross all packages, but not usable externally. How would you do that?
[19:24:37] <cheeser> you wouldn't
[19:24:39] <cheeser> you can't
[19:24:42] <Fallout2man> hrmm
[19:24:49] <Fallout2man> Okay, thanks
[19:24:50] <cheeser> not until jigsaw at least.
[19:24:52] <wyvern`> Fallout2man, unfortunately the 'superpackages' stuff got bumped from java7 too i think
[19:25:28] <ernimril> kba: if you do java then consider doing a swing gui, javas handling of console sucks
[19:25:42] <Fallout2man> Actually in this case I'm trying to discern how to extract a class from a jar
[19:25:48] <Fallout2man> But it's android and not strictly Java
[19:25:54] <Fallout2man> but the Android guys didn't know
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[19:25:59] <RLa> use obfuscator
[19:26:01] <ernimril> Fallout2man: a jar is a zip-file, just unpack it
[19:26:06] <Fallout2man> so thought I'd see if anyone here had any idea of what Vanilla java could do the same
[19:26:19] <RLa> there is proguard, maybe works for android too
[19:26:28] <Fallout2man> ernimril: That's worthless since my app has to run on a mobile phone where I cannot modify the jar. :p
[19:26:50] <kba> ernimril: well I don't like Java's GUIs, tbh
[19:26:59] <Fallout2man> I'm trying to figure out why the IDE is not allowing me to use the class, since I have the full source and it's marked as public final.
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[19:27:05] <ernimril> kba: why not?
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[19:27:20] <Fallout2man> proguard!
[19:27:22] <Fallout2man> that's it
[19:27:30] <nawk> what is an abstract class?
[19:27:33] <Fallout2man> I saw a proguard config in my android extra files.
[19:27:43] <Fallout2man> nawk: A class that is only partially implemented.
[19:28:05] <Fallout2man> Abstract classes allow you to include abstract methods, which are method definitions that subclasses will be required to implement themselves.
[19:28:12] <ernimril> kba: if you really want to do console, then sure go for it, but note that java has _very_ little support for console (basically only read line, write line and turn echo off (for password input)
[19:28:14] <ernimril> )
[19:28:14] <RLa> nawk, a class you cannot instantiate
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[19:28:47] <RLa> there is jline if you want nice prompt
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[19:30:09] <kba> ernimril: I think it's slow and for what I'm going to make, a console will do just fine :)
[19:30:55] <ernimril> kba: swing is not slow, but there are a lot of bad swing programs that may feel slow
[19:31:16] <ernimril> kba: http://www.digpro.com/Articles/Produkter/dp_com.html <== what I do for work, quite a lot of swing
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[19:32:02] <kba> is dp_com_pop.jpg made in Swing?
[19:32:26] <kba> Ah, yes, it is. I can see the buttons in the lower left-hand corner.
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[19:32:34] <ernimril> kba: yes, that is standard swing
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[19:32:42] <kba> I just think generally they are very ugly.
[19:32:47] <ernimril> kba: with own drawing for the maps of course
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[19:38:44] <ernimril> kba: ugly is a matter of taste and some people think that swing is ugly, not much to do about it. You can change the look and feel to be more native, but then other people will think it is ugly
[19:38:45] <nawk> Fallout2man, RLa, by characteristics you described, its like an interface and a class combined kinda thing
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[19:38:46] <kba> Well, if I really wanted to create a GUI app, I would probably take a look at Cocoa anyway
[19:38:46] <kba> but what I'm intending to build is really more suitable as a console application; I appreciate your insight though :-)
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[19:39:51] <Fallout2man> nawk: Indeed, it's an inheritance thing. It lets you define a partial implementation so you can very effectively write subclasses.
[19:40:08] <Fallout2man> So that way there's minimal code duplication.
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[19:40:22] <Fallout2man> A great example are the java collections classes like list.
[19:40:28] <aLeSD> if I have a two reference to the same list (a,b) and I run a.remove(3); b see the modification . is it ?
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[19:40:45] <Fallout2man> They use abstract bases so that many types of lists can derrive from a partial base implementation whose code is universally relevant.
[19:41:04] <aLeSD> now the real question is : if I run a.remove(0) ... what happen to b ?
[19:41:36] <_W_> aLeSD, nothing happen to either a or b in your examples
[19:41:46] <_W_> the mutation happens to the list that both a and b point to
[19:41:53] <aLeSD> ok
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[19:42:04] <aLeSD> _W_, I am very happy
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[19:49:33] <Terabyte> if I have dis = new DataInputStream(new BufferedInputStream(is)); and is is a URL stream. what's the best way of keeping what would be read from dis for later (given there are other objects that want to make use of the contents in the form of an "inputstream")
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[19:50:24] <Terabyte> (that is, if I read dis compleatly, the stream is depleated and I don't want to have to download again to retrieve the same information for another object later)
[19:50:29] <Terabyte> lete*
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[19:53:02] <_W_> Terabyte, just parse it fully the first time, and make the results of that available?
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[19:53:40] <Terabyte> hae done. so at the moment, i'm storing the result of readUTF in a string, and then creating a new ByteArrayInputStream from that string whever anybody needs it again. Not sure if that's the best way.
[19:53:49] <Terabyte> have*
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[19:55:19] <Terabyte> is there any reason why readUTF() would cause the characters <? to be ommited from the opening? When I print the string out, those 2 characters are missing.
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[20:08:25] <Terabyte> nevermind used buffered reader problem went away
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[20:10:00] <nawk> Fallout2man, thank you, it's been almost 4 years since I touched cup/line of Java
[20:10:25] <nawk> s/cup/a &/
[20:10:54] <Fallout2man> No worries, I've been all over the place myself. Started out with web work, then objective-C and now java
[20:11:01] <new2net> return n instanceof Integer ? n + 1 : n; "object + 1 operation not supported... "
[20:11:02] <Fallout2man> after this, who knows? :p
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[20:11:29] <new2net> how do I turn the type checker off?
[20:11:31] <Fallout2man> new2net: If you're using a wrapper class then it'd be n.intValue()
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[20:11:44] <Fallout2man> new2net: You can't disable type safety in Java
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[20:12:19] <x21> LOL
[20:12:22] <Fallout2man> If you're using a wrapper class you can't perform math operations on it, you need to get a primitive value first.
[20:12:28] <nawk> Fallout2man: oh great, maybe I could ask for some obj-C stuff in the near future to help me get started, especially there isn't an ##objective-C
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[20:12:33] <nawk> :-)
[20:12:43] <Fallout2man> nawk: #iphonedev
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[20:12:53] <Fallout2man> because let's be real, you're not developing Objective-C if it's not iDevice :p
[20:13:07] <new2net> Integer.parseInt(n.toString()) + 1 ... it's beutiful
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[20:13:31] <Fallout2man> new2net: I wouldn't do that, it's not as clean as you think.
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[20:19:22] <new2net> well my interface is for a linked list, so it receives anything you want to put into a linked list
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[20:19:48] <Tuplanolla> There already is a linked list class.
[20:20:06] <new2net> yeah, synchronized
[20:20:23] <new2net> i'll show you my code
[20:20:23] <Fallout2man> Okay, so it's basically receiving information one piece at a time to insert inside a collection? Will it always be one at a time or might there me times where more than one piece of information might need to be put in?
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[20:21:07] <new2net> well the list is immutable, but you can put another list into an existing list using append()
[20:21:51] <Tuplanolla> To quote http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/util/LinkedList.html "this implementation is not synchronized".
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[20:23:56] <new2net> here's what i've been testing it with http://pastebin.com/r2xsz1ji
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[20:25:16] <new2net> you build off of the empty list.
[20:25:35] <Fallout2man> Hrmm, might be able to take a look later
[20:25:39] <Fallout2man> got stuff to do right now
[20:25:41] <Fallout2man> bbl
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[20:29:18] <new2net> how has Java survived this long?
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[20:30:41] <sbalmos> Bribery
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[20:31:23] <new2net> makes sense.
[20:31:59] <shiranpuri> who's bribing who?
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[20:32:32] <cheeser> whom
[20:32:32] <cheeser> 8^)=
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[20:33:34] <kercyr> Who's whom?
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[20:37:07] <KWhat_Work> How do you get mail protocol information with javaee.jar? When i try to include mail.jar I get an error like "java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: com/sun/mail/util/LineInputStream" due to the javamail conflict? When I remove it I get javax.mail.NoSuchProviderException: imap. How the hell do you use mail with javaee.jar?
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[20:39:06] <webczat> Hey, how do you do a java server that accepts many many connections, usually?
[20:39:38] <new2net> gnome multithreading. You need more gnomes
[20:39:48] <cheeser> ~grizzly
[20:39:48] <javabot> cheeser, grizzly is a framework to build scalable and robust server applications using nio. Grizzly is used in GlassFish and SJSAS PE 8.1. For more information see https://grizzly.java.net/ or see Jean-Francois Arcand's blog: http://weblogs.java.net/blog/jfarcand/archive/2005/06/grizzly_an_http.html
[20:40:09] <webczat> I mean if you have thousants of users, it probably isn't a good idea to try to accept 10000 users on 10000 threads.
[20:40:32] <new2net> gnome threads, the gnome is a layer in the short stack
[20:40:41] <cheeser> ~nio
[20:40:41] <javabot> cheeser, nio is the New I/O framework, which supports (among other things) non-blocking I/O and memory-mapped files. It's relatively hard to use though. See http://is.gd/k13w [sun.com] and http://is.gd/k13Q [pdf file at oswego dot edu] for more info, and ask me about ~xnio, ~netty, ~rnio, ~mina, and ~grizzly.
[20:41:15] <webczat> So actually, are streams or channels preferred for usage?
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[20:41:25] <new2net> ~xnio
[20:41:25] <javabot> new2net, xnio is an NIO replacement framework, which keeps Channels but does away with Selectors, developed by ##java's very own dmlloyd. The project can be found at http://www.jboss.org/xnio - have fun!
[20:41:34] * dmlloyd bows
[20:41:42] <dmlloyd> could use some testers for XNIO 3
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[20:42:27] <new2net> I need to figure out how to parse an int from object first lol
[20:43:25] <webczat> ?
[20:43:26] <Tuplanolla> You could limit it to extend Comparable<T> and use (int)a.compareTo(b).
[20:44:10] <webczat> Should you use streams or channels, or when which one is preferred?
[20:44:51] <webczat> i mean if I don't want to use any frameworks beyond standard java lib because of something.
[20:45:44] <webczat> i think java isn't so hard to do it like that.
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[20:45:48] <Charrit> hi
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[20:49:01] <webczat> And, where can I find java language reference or tutorial?
[20:49:25] <new2net> http://www.java2s.com/Tutorial/Java/CatalogJava.htm
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[20:50:39] <elb0w`> is there a java freelance channel?
[20:51:11] <webczat> Are jsp or servlets actually good?
[20:51:18] <cheeser> not really. yes.
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[20:52:27] <webczat> i heart opinions that they aren't
[20:52:59] <cheeser> well, you know what they say: opinions are like assholes. everyone has one and they all stink.
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[20:53:17] <cheeser> if they meet your needs, they're awesome. if they don't, probably not great.
[20:53:44] <webczat> why servlets aren't good?
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[20:53:56] <cheeser> i never said they weren't.
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[20:55:02] <webczat> s/servlets/jsp
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[20:55:50] <cheeser> for many varied reasons, really.
[20:55:58] <cheeser> i don't really want to run down the list
[20:56:19] <webczat> are servlets videly used?
[20:56:25] <cheeser> yes
[20:56:25] <mapreduce> very videly
[20:56:30] <cheeser> heh
[20:56:40] <Matuku> Does anyone know of a good library for converting a movie to a series of images?
[20:56:44] <mapreduce> Evenin' all.
[20:56:54] <webczat> i usually see cgi or php
[20:57:01] <mapreduce> Matuku: libavformat
[20:57:08] <mapreduce> For Java, probably xuggler.
[20:57:43] <Tuplanolla> Do you happen to know a short and simple tutorial about project file management?
[20:57:53] <cheeser> read the maven book
[20:57:54] <Tuplanolla> I find myself spending more times managing files than actually programming.
[20:58:05] <mapreduce> Tuplanolla: As in pom.xml files?
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[20:58:19] <Tuplanolla> As in *.java, *.class and *.jar.
[20:58:30] <mapreduce> Tuplanolla: What build tool are you using?
[20:58:42] <Tuplanolla> javac only. :P
[20:58:42] <webczat> Are there any free hostings making it possible to write servlets?
[20:58:56] <mapreduce> Tuplanolla: That's a compiler, not a build tool as such.
[20:59:02] <mapreduce> Tuplanolla: Look into maven.
[20:59:02] <Tuplanolla> Well, no build tools then.
[20:59:04] <cheeser> webczat: yes
[20:59:25] <mapreduce> webczat: You can also do it on your own PC for development purposes.
[20:59:32] <cheeser> amazing!
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[21:00:28] <Tuplanolla> Maven... is it portable?
[21:00:35] <cheeser> ...
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[21:00:50] <mapreduce> It is a Java program.
[21:00:57] <mapreduce> So it's as portable as Java is.
[21:00:59] <cheeser> it's usuable on most flavors of solaris.
[21:01:07] <cheeser> spelling++
[21:01:08] <mapreduce> That's more than solaris is.
[21:01:16] <webczat> Does it need apavhe/mod_jk if I use apache?
[21:01:22] <Tuplanolla> I was thinking of a few kB tool I could put on a memory stick.
[21:01:36] <mapreduce> webczat: Maven builds stuff, it largely doesn't care whether you use apache later.
[21:01:45] <cheeser> dear lord
[21:02:05] <mapreduce> Though there is a jetty:run goal you can use to have it locally host the servlets.
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[21:03:55] <Tuplanolla> I much prefer the C way of having a single *.bat or *.sh that builds the project (even partially) no matter how the files are located.
[21:04:02] <Tuplanolla> Might as well try Maven though.
[21:04:18] <sbalmos> You've never dealt with Makefiles then?
[21:04:43] <Tuplanolla> Haven't really needed to.
[21:04:49] <cheeser> wow. that's ... um. wow.
[21:04:51] <sbalmos> wow
[21:04:55] <sbalmos> <boggle/>
[21:05:00] <cheeser> Tuplanolla: you're a student?
[21:05:04] <Tuplanolla> Nope.
[21:05:06] <cbeust> Tuplanolla: You've probably never have to deal with complex software then
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[21:05:18] <cheeser> professional?
[21:05:21] <kercyr> javac `find . | grep java$`
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[21:05:26] <Tuplanolla> Not that either.
[21:05:31] <Tuplanolla> I've had bigger projects, but they don't usually take much to compile.
[21:05:39] <cheeser> not very big then.
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[21:05:51] <cheeser> or just incredibly stupidly done.
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[21:09:02] <mapreduce> Tuplanolla: You can write a .sh file to build Java stuff if you like too.
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[21:09:34] <Tuplanolla> I wouldn't call anything stupid that's easy to maintain though.
[21:09:34] <mapreduce> I occasionally do that, for throwaway projects, but I usually use maven.
[21:09:51] <saml> <jsp:include page="<%= somepath %>.html"/> why is this bad?
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[21:10:07] <cheeser> if it's small enough sure. but any large project that doesn't use a build tool is dumb.
[21:10:44] <mapreduce> saml: Does it fail to compile?
[21:11:11] <saml> yah it doesn't like %>
[21:11:36] <cheeser> try ${somepath}.html
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[21:11:56] <saml> i'm doing it with <c:set var="stuff" value="<%= asdfadadsadfaf.asdaf() %>"/> <jsp:include page="${path}.html" />
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[21:12:16] <saml> i mean....... you know what i'm saying
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[21:13:03] <saml> hrm.. jstl and el stuff are good.. but they silently fail
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[21:13:25] <saml> <jsp:include page="something/that/doesn't/exist.html"/> is okay without compilation error
[21:13:33] <saml> is it really recommended?
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[21:15:42] <Tuplanolla> Maven doesn't seem to provide an interface to compile/run/package/upload the project with a single keystroke, so I'm sticking with my scripts until I run into trouble.
[21:16:07] <mapreduce> Tuplanolla: mvn deploy
[21:16:15] <sbalmos> mvn de... <backspace/>
[21:16:22] <sbalmos> RIF
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[21:17:31] <cheeser> hahahahah
[21:17:36] <cheeser> holy shit.
[21:17:46] <cheeser> your script doesn't have a single keystroke either.
[21:18:08] <Tuplanolla> It uses MS-DOS interrupts.
[21:18:11] <Tuplanolla> Let's not go there.
[21:18:37] <mapreduce> So you do use a build tool after all.
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[21:18:57] <sbalmos> int $0B = build
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[21:19:28] <Tuplanolla> I wouldn't classify it with such a high status word, mapreduce. :>
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[21:30:47] <tishammer> why would one want to use nio instead of DataInputStream? I basically has the same api without the hassle.
[21:31:48] <saml> i do <c:set var="foo" value="bar"/> <jsp:include page="/some/path.html"/> .. but /some/path/html.jsp (that handles GET request to /some/path.html) has ${foo} == null
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[21:36:10] <saml> oh i had to do <c:set var="foo" value="bar" scope="request"/>
[21:36:23] <cheeser> tishammer: a class has the same api as an IO technique?
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[21:36:48] <_controller> Hey, is there any way to check if another threads owns a specific object's monitor?
[21:36:56] <_controller> thread*
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[21:38:43] <nawk> Hi
[21:39:28] <new2net> hi
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[21:39:43] <nawk> java is known as the "Java application launcher", so how does the JVM gets created/run
[21:39:51] <nawk> I am not sure how it works
[21:40:13] <nawk> I am reading the wiki right now, but dont' quite get it
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[21:40:36] <nawk> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Virtual_Machine#Execution_environment
[21:41:01] <new2net> its the JRE, you can shred it
[21:41:12] <new2net> thats what I did
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[21:42:11] <nawk> I mean java.exe
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[21:47:18] <wyvern`> _controller, if you're using ReentrantLock I think you can
[21:47:36] <_controller> i was using implicit blocks, but i see using a reentrant one is the best way
[21:47:40] <_controller> locks*
[21:47:55] <wyvern`> you do not have access to anything like that if you're using implicit.
[21:51:48] <tishammer> cheeser: you know what i mean
[21:51:56] <cheeser> no, i don't.
[21:52:22] <tishammer> cheeser: instead of channel+bytebuffer i can use directly datainputstream. they both give me the ability to readInt, readLong etc from a bytestream
[21:52:25] <tishammer> basically
[21:52:40] <cheeser> one is blocking. one is not.
[21:52:42] <tishammer> but with datainputstream i can read faster as i can pass a bufferedinputstream
[21:53:02] <tishammer> cheeser: on files? nio is non blocking on files?
[21:53:23] <cheeser> who said anyting about files?
[21:53:28] <tishammer> i do
[21:53:38] <nawk> What's the point of an reentrantlock? (though I never used it in Java), it's kind of lazy to do that. Shouldn't programmer should keep track him/her self?
[21:54:05] <cheeser> just now maybe.
[21:54:14] <nawk> the number of times it has acquire the lock
[21:54:39] <wyvern`> nawk, why wouldn't you want it to be reentrant?
[21:54:42] <tishammer> ok, then now :) i don't see the sense of using nio with files while you can use DataInputStream(BufferedInputStream). it's way faster, easier to use and has similar apit
[21:54:55] <cheeser> that might be true.
[21:55:08] <tishammer> ok
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[21:55:41] <tishammer> and abount non-blocking, afaik inputstreams are now developed on nio, aren't they?
[21:55:49] <nawk> wyvern` I don't know. The only concurrent programming I've done is with Pthreads.
[21:56:05] <wyvern`> nawk, it's more pleasant in Java. Read JCIP :)
[21:56:08] <wyvern`> ~~ nawk jcip
[21:56:09] <javabot> nawk, jcip is Java Concurrency In Practice, a book focused on implementing threaded and concurrent applications in Java. http://jcip.net/
[21:56:13] <cheeser> tishammer: no
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[21:56:25] <cheeser> InputStreams are blocking. always will be.
[21:56:27] <nawk> I can't think of a situation where a thread has to acquire a lock for a resource more than once
[21:56:48] <tishammer> ok
[21:56:52] <wyvern`> nawk what about a synchronized method that calls another synchronized method
[21:56:54] <wyvern`> that's reentrant.
[21:57:16] <_controller> should lock objects be volatile
[21:57:30] <wyvern`> _controller, are you changing which lock object is being used (which is a terrible idea btw)?
[21:57:46] <_controller> no
[21:57:55] <wyvern`> Then will volatile make any difference? (Hint: no.)
[21:57:56] <_controller> i never really got the purpose of volatile
[21:58:04] <_controller> if it doesnt block, then what's it do
[21:58:06] <wyvern`> ~~ _controller jcip
[21:58:06] <javabot> _controller, jcip is Java Concurrency In Practice, a book focused on implementing threaded and concurrent applications in Java. http://jcip.net/
[21:58:21] <_controller> can someone simply not explain it with a one liner?
[21:58:26] <wyvern`> No.
[21:58:29] <wyvern`> It's more complex than that.
[21:58:55] <wyvern`> It has implications for memory visibility and reordering. Read the book. It's a good book.
[21:59:00] <tishammer> about inputstreams. I'm implementing a datareader over my own db and would like to export Iterator interface. Of course that means no IOException at next(). What is the best practice in these situations? drop the idea of decorating with an iterator? :)
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[21:59:30] <_controller> wyvern`, ok but should it simply be used when multiple threads mutate the same object concurrently
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[21:59:39] <wyvern`> _controller, read the book. It's complicated.
[21:59:39] <nawk> wyvern`, mmm... perhaps I should read JCIP when I have time. All I know is that a synchronized method implements a monitor in Java
[21:59:47] <_controller> ...
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[22:00:03] <wyvern`> nawk, that is correct.
[22:02:03] <mapreduce> tishammer: A bigger problem with that is that there's no way of closing the resource partway through the iteration.
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[22:02:46] <mapreduce> E.g., you only care about the first three hundred bytes, so you stop iterating after that. The resource stays open and bad shit happens.
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[22:03:50] <_controller> guys does Executors.newFixedThreadPool instantiate a ThreadPoolExecutor
[22:03:51] <_controller> ?
[22:04:03] <wyvern`> Check the source and see
[22:05:08] <jim> speaking of source... can I get a tarball of it to link to eclipse?
[22:05:29] <wyvern`> if your jdk is installed properly eclipse should have no problems showing source of most classes
[22:05:35] <wyvern`> (i.e. not some com.sun ones)
[22:05:58] <whaley> jim: source.zip somewhere in the bowels of your jdk
[22:06:16] <jim> where can I get it?
[22:06:26] <tishammer> mapreduce: ok, you implement Closeable
[22:06:26] <jim> for 2.1 and maybe 2.2
[22:06:34] <wyvern`> huh? what is 2.1?
[22:06:49] <jim> wait, I'm sorry...
[22:07:00] <jim> I'm typing to wrong window
[22:07:05] <wyvern`> heh
[22:07:13] <whaley> ~~ jim ls
[22:07:13] <javabot> jim, wrong window pal!
[22:07:27] <tishammer> jim: at least it wasn't your CC number
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[22:07:55] <jim> or the password to Obama's toybox...
[22:08:21] <jim> again, sorry; have an awesome day
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[22:16:59] <mapreduce> tishammer: The foreach construct won't call .close()
[22:18:50] <mapreduce> So you can't do for (String line: linesInFile(file)) if (line.startsWith("foo")) return line; without leaking resources.
[22:18:58] <mapreduce> (or slurping)
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[22:20:49] <Tuplanolla> Slurping!
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[22:37:59] <TomyLobo> hi
[22:38:07] <LtHummus> javabot, say hi to TomyLobo
[22:38:07] <javabot> hi to TomyLobo
[22:38:14] <TomyLobo> lol
[22:38:28] <TomyLobo> javabot, say !k LtHummus
[22:38:28] <javabot> !k LtHummus
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[22:43:48] <Lone_Rifle> "any discussions related to performance comparisons between Java and C++ ultimately boils down to how close you want to get to bare metal" - Discuss.
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[22:44:45] <lt232> int[ ] numbers;
[22:44:46] <lt232> is that what i need to write to declare an array that will hold a list of integers?
[22:45:17] <Lone_Rifle> ~~lt232 arrays
[22:45:18] <javabot> lt232, arrays is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/arrays.html
[22:45:24] <Lone_Rifle> ~~lt232 collections
[22:45:25] <javabot> lt232, The Collections API is available at http://java.sun.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/collections/index.html
[22:47:26] <TomyLobo> is there a way to look ahead in a stream or to put back a string i already read?
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[22:47:58] <TomyLobo> err bufferedreader to be precise
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[22:48:54] <Cher> TomyLobo: have you tried PushbackReader?
[22:49:37] <lt232> so im thinking that was right based on that
[22:49:39] <TomyLobo> ah sounds good
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[22:50:38] <TomyLobo> Cher is that significantly slower than bufferedreader?
[22:50:43] <TomyLobo> i.e. unbuffered
[22:51:38] <TomyLobo> in other words: should i wrap the bufferedreader in the pushbackreader or the filereader i have
[22:51:45] <TomyLobo> a box in a box in a box or a box in a box?
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[22:54:09] <Cher> TomyLobo: That depends on your use case.
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[22:55:00] <Cher> TomyLobo: Unless your use case is inherently performance critical - which most use cases are not - performance should not matter directly, it would come automatically from a clean, aesthetic design.
[22:56:47] <TomyLobo> so it's not buffered?
[22:57:09] <Cher> Does the description of PushbackReader say it's buffered?
[22:57:30] <TomyLobo> no, but the ability to "unread" something kinda implies there is some kind of buffer
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[22:59:00] <Lone_Rifle> why would the presence of a buffer matter anyway?
[22:59:13] <Cher> Because the description doesn't mention buffering, I think it is a valid conclusion that PushbackReader buffers what you unread. It doesn't buffer less, otherwise it wouldn't work. It does not guarantee that it buffers more. It might be that it buffers what you unread and read again, but that wouldn't matter.
[22:59:37] <Lone_Rifle> ~javadoc PushbackReader
[22:59:38] <javabot> Lone_Rifle: http://is.gd/u5FvYb [JDK: java.io.PushbackReader]
[22:59:39] <Cher> In other words: If my use case suggests both, unreading and buffering, I would chain PushbackReader and BufferedReader.
[23:00:10] <TomyLobo> i found it makes my design cleaner to just make a pushbackreader in the small part of my code where i actually need it
[23:01:27] <Lone_Rifle> given you're working with Java, do you have bigger things to worry about than choosing the best combination of readers to go in your project?
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[23:01:54] <TomyLobo> yes, but these are things i can't change :P
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[23:03:07] <TomyLobo> like this: return position.clone().add(size.clone().multiply(0.5));
[23:04:35] <mapreduce> Clone, poor man's immutability.
[23:04:52] <TomyLobo> thing is, they are mutable
[23:05:00] <lt232> i have this array
[23:05:04] <lt232> String[] sentence = new String[5];
[23:05:04] <TomyLobo> and they'd suck if they weren't
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[23:05:14] <lt232> now i need to assign a value inside the arry
[23:05:23] <mapreduce> TomyLobo: Why would they?
[23:05:29] <Cher> TomyLobo: You just discovered one of the things that I would change about the Java API, if I could: Dimension etc. should be immutable imo.
[23:05:46] <lt232> this be ok
[23:05:47] <lt232> sentence[5] = "sentence.";
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[23:06:15] <lt232> someone pm me
[23:06:18] <Cher> lt232: What exactly is the question?
[23:06:21] <TomyLobo> mapreduce because that would prevent efficient operation if you, say, want to sum up a bunch of vectors
[23:06:40] <TomyLobo> you'd essentially copy the vector each time you add something to it
[23:07:04] <mapreduce> TomyLobo: Not really. Allocating and deallocating very short-lived objects is blindingly fast on modern JVMs.
[23:07:08] <lt232> i need to assign a value inside the array
[23:07:16] <lt232> String[] sentence = new String[5];
[23:07:16] <mapreduce> lt232: Your code sample does that.
[23:07:24] <mapreduce> lt232: So what's the problem?
[23:07:25] <lt232> oh ok let me try again
[23:07:26] <Cher> lt232: Why don't you just compile and run this?
[23:07:30] <saml> final String[] sentence = new String[]{"a"};
[23:07:38] <TomyLobo> mapreduce it's not nothing
[23:07:39] <Lone_Rifle> http://ideone.com
[23:07:40] <lt232> i have other errors so im waiting
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[23:08:03] <lt232> (d) sentence ["a "];
[23:08:08] <mapreduce> TomyLobo: Sure, but it's close enough to nothing to not matter in most if not all cases.
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[23:08:24] <lt232> sentence["a"];
[23:08:32] <Cher> lt232: I guess your program will compile but yield a runtime error. If you think a little bit about it, you should find out why.
[23:08:35] <mapreduce> lt232: Array indexes are ints, not strings.
[23:08:40] <xeer> This is some bs. HashMap.put claims to return the object inserted or null. Everything is returned as null! What gives?
[23:08:58] <mapreduce> xeer: It claims to return the previous object.
[23:09:06] <mapreduce> And oddly enough, that's what it does.
[23:09:20] <xeer> "previous" object referring to what
[23:09:32] <Cher> What's previousyl been mapped to the key.
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[23:09:33] <mapreduce> Time.
[23:09:33] <Lone_Rifle> the previous object that was held by the Map at that key location
[23:09:39] <xeer> put(K, V) -> returns !V
[23:09:44] <TomyLobo> mapreduce even in C++ people care about useless copies. and you wont claim that allocation and deallocation is faster in java than in C++, right? :)
[23:09:52] <xeer> AGH that is so misleading.
[23:09:53] <mapreduce> TomyLobo: Yes, I will.
[23:09:54] <lt232> sentence["Hello"]; sentence[2] = "this "; [3] sentence = "is "; sentence ["a "]; sentence[5] = "sentence.";
[23:10:00] <lt232> those are what i've tried
[23:10:04] <lt232> which could be correct
[23:10:05] * Cher agrees with mapreduce.
[23:10:07] <TomyLobo> also, allocation is not the only thing involved in a copy
[23:10:16] <mapreduce> TomyLobo: new and delete are slower than Java for short-lived objects.
[23:10:17] <xeer> mapreduce: It's called put, not replace. I want back the object I inserted.
[23:10:22] <Lone_Rifle> ~~lt232 arrays
[23:10:23] <javabot> lt232, arrays is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/arrays.html
[23:10:28] <mapreduce> Stack allocation in C++ is certainly fast though.
[23:10:29] <TomyLobo> mapreduce i'm talking about temporaries
[23:10:33] <TomyLobo> which reside on the stack
[23:10:47] <Lone_Rifle> actually, since we're slowly moving into C++ vs Java territory...
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[23:11:12] <TomyLobo> accum = accum + current; vs accum += current
[23:11:14] <mapreduce> TomyLobo: I'm not sure whether it's in yet, but I believe JVMs can/will be able to.. stack-allocate objects as an optimisation.
[23:11:24] <Lone_Rifle> is the whole performance comparison between the languages really a comparison between needs and wants?
[23:12:06] <mapreduce> TomyLobo: The general upshot is that code that minimises object creation often does more harm than good, other than for expensive objects like file handles.
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[23:12:45] <Lone_Rifle> a point i have in mind is that through GC Java can collate all the garbage and use one free() while C++ has to free() for each and every object
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[23:12:55] <mapreduce> If immutability would get you to a correct solution quicker, who gives a flying frog if it's 0.5% slower on every other Tuesday.
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[23:13:03] <Lone_Rifle> but on the other hand, there might be situations where latency is critical and so I don't want Java's GC to kick in at the wrong time
[23:13:06] <TomyLobo> Lone_Rifle pool allocators
[23:13:18] <Lone_Rifle> ~g pool allocators
[23:13:18] <javabot> http://www.google.com/search?q=pool+allocators
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[23:13:31] <Cher> mapreduce: I'm not sure that I agree there. I'd prefer that object creation is primarily driven by proper immutability / mutability properties of objects, by scope and by suited collaborations.
[23:13:33] <TomyLobo> http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_46_0/libs/pool/doc/index.html
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[23:13:51] <gener1c> is there a way to set how a class will behave when System.out.print is invoked on it?
[23:13:52] <mapreduce> Lone_Rifle: You want the GC to kick in all the time, but not 'stop the world'.
[23:13:55] <gener1c> some return method?
[23:14:05] <mapreduce> gener1c: Override toString
[23:14:08] <Lone_Rifle> mapreduce: i thought G1 is stop-the-world?
[23:14:13] <gener1c> ok thanks mapreduce
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[23:14:33] <mapreduce> Lone_Rifle: I don't know much about it, but I expect it has other phases that don't stop the world.
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[23:14:43] <mapreduce> I.e., for short-lived objects.
[23:15:08] <Lone_Rifle> i doubt that would go down well with say, angry equity traders
[23:15:13] <mapreduce> Cher: I can't actually make any sense out of what you just said.
[23:15:42] <mapreduce> Lone_Rifle: I work on software where GC pauses are fairly fatal problems, and I just keep the heap low.
[23:15:51] <mapreduce> That way the pauses aren't noticeable.
[23:16:12] <Lone_Rifle> mapreduce: are you at liberty to disclose the software in question?
[23:16:20] <mapreduce> CCTV viewing software.
[23:16:33] <cheeser> aka public peeping toms
[23:16:33] <Lone_Rifle> ok
[23:16:43] <TomyLobo> tbh i wouldnt be surprised if some jvm implementation uses boost::pool :D
[23:17:30] <Cher> mapreduce: I refer to minimising object creation. You said it often does more harm than good. I think minimising object creation shouldn't be the primary design driver, but it definitely shouldn't be avoided either.
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[23:18:19] <mapreduce> Cher: I've benchmarked cases where it "seems obvious" that cacheing objects will be faster than recreating them, and found that it wasn't.
[23:18:50] <Lone_Rifle> mapreduce: did you document it, and is it accessible from the Net?
[23:18:55] <TomyLobo> Cher in the case of Vector.add, one could split the operation into mutating and a non-mutating part
[23:18:56] <mapreduce> Reasonably serious benchmarks running over a couple of weeks.
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[23:19:21] <TomyLobo> Vector.addAndReturn(Vector)
[23:19:52] <mapreduce> Lone_Rifle: Yes, but probably in a project-specific way, and no. It'd take a rewrite to be publishable I think.
[23:19:55] <smw> Anyone here know jsvc well? I am getting an error when I try to run it. jsvc error: JSVC re-exec requires execution with an absolute or relative path
[23:20:02] <TomyLobo> that'd be the equivalent to C++'s operator+, while add would be +=
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[23:20:16] <TomyLobo> however, that is ugly :)
[23:20:25] <Cher> mapreduce: I wouldn't care about creating a few String or Integer objects more than necessary, true. For short-lived flyweights I wouldn't care about their creation. For objectss which are more in the centers than at the leaves of models, I would.
[23:21:01] <mapreduce> TomyLobo: It makes more sense to have two Vector types, one mutable and one not, plus some conversions between the two.
[23:21:20] <TomyLobo> that wouldnt cut down on the method calls in my code
[23:21:41] <TomyLobo> it'd essentially replace the clones in my code by toImmutableVector
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[23:22:06] <Cher> TomyLobo: Why do you want an immutable Vector?
[23:22:21] <mapreduce> position.add(size.multiply(0.5))
[23:22:22] <kercyr> so you can keep track of changes.
[23:22:29] <TomyLobo> what mapreduce said
[23:23:39] * kercyr doesn't understand what mapreduce caid
[23:23:45] <kercyr> said...
[23:24:02] <TomyLobo> that is the code i want to write and that's what i need immutable vectors for
[23:24:04] <Cher> Me neither. And I don't understand why someone would want an immutable java.util.Vector.
[23:24:30] <TomyLobo> not java.util.Vector, duh
[23:24:32] <mapreduce> I don't think it's java.util.Vector he's on about, but something like a 3D vector for graphics.
[23:24:35] <TomyLobo> a mathematical vector
[23:24:41] <Cher> Ah okay...
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[23:25:04] <TomyLobo> no one likes java.util.Vector anyway
[23:25:06] <mapreduce> I'd want an immutable java.util.Vector so I don't have to putz about cloning it wherever I receive one.
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[23:26:06] <mapreduce> A Smalltalk developer might not understand why you want your ints to be immutable.
[23:26:21] <Radu-Mihail> Hello.
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[23:26:55] <TomyLobo> mapreduce 1 = 5?
[23:27:01] <Cher> Do you really want an immutable java.util.Vector or would an immutable java.util.ArrayList do? I mean, you don't need the sync stuff if it's the true object is immutable. You'd only need it if it's just an immutable view, but that makes no sense if you talk about cloning when receiving one. Right?
[23:27:27] <mapreduce> TomyLobo: I believe you can do something like that in Smalltalk.
[23:27:50] <TomyLobo> and subsequent reading from "1" would return 5?
[23:27:53] <TomyLobo> that is gross
[23:28:00] <mapreduce> Cher: Me? I don't really care, as I have access to libraries that provided immutable lists.
[23:28:22] <mapreduce> s/provided/provide/
[23:28:26] <TomyLobo> sounds functionally
[23:28:29] <TomyLobo> like your name :)
[23:28:42] <mapreduce> I use Functional Java, yes, but there's also Guava.
[23:29:16] <gener1c> oh no
[23:29:17] <Lone_Rifle> interesting, they were talking about it in the workplace the other day. Did you examine alternatives, and why did you settle with FJ?
[23:29:23] <gener1c> i cant invoke .toString on Int
[23:29:31] <TomyLobo> "Even the statement true become: false is valid in Smalltalk, although executing it is not recommended."
[23:29:33] <mapreduce> tbh I mainly only use fj's tuples and Option at the moment.
[23:29:34] <TomyLobo> from wikipedia :D
[23:29:41] <lt232> http://pastebin.com/hR0zq8jb
[23:30:18] <mapreduce> Lone_Rifle: I know the author, and had my own library before FJ existed, which was trivial to convert uses of to FJ.
[23:30:35] <mapreduce> Guava (then google-collections) refused to add something I found useful.
[23:30:43] <TomyLobo> lt232 nice code i guess, what is (with) it?
[23:30:58] <TomyLobo> oh, homework
[23:31:03] <TomyLobo> javabot, homework
[23:31:03] <javabot> Homework is meant to be done by YOU, so that YOU learn something. Stop cheating; we don't like doing our own, why should we do yours? Also, answering homework questions is extremely frustrating. See "~why no homework" for more reasons why we won't answer your questions.
[23:31:07] <xeer> lt232 is throwing code examples about just to get people to answer the questions on their test.
[23:31:19] <TomyLobo> cool, you have a homework factoid
[23:31:23] * kercyr loves fj.
[23:31:23] <Lone_Rifle> TomyLobo: ~~<user> <keyword> for better targetting
[23:31:43] <lt232> i need to initialize the nums array with random numbers
[23:31:44] <mapreduce> lt232: The answer is 10.
[23:31:49] <lt232> in my instance part
[23:31:50] <TomyLobo> what is one paste ~~? QQ?
[23:31:52] <Lone_Rifle> mapreduce: nein, 7!
[23:32:01] <lt232> stop guys either help or not
[23:32:02] <mapreduce> das ist klein
[23:32:05] <Cher> mapreduce: Ah you used base 42 :-)
[23:32:07] <Lone_Rifle> ~~lt232 homework
[23:32:08] <javabot> lt232, Homework is meant to be done by YOU, so that YOU learn something. Stop cheating; we don't like doing our own, why should we do yours? Also, answering homework questions is extremely frustrating. See "~why no homework" for more reasons why we won't answer your questions.
[23:32:09] <lt232> dont be a prick about it
[23:32:09] <PrimeZ> Anyone can suggest how can I create a general sql query (with multiple params) such that if some parameters are null, the condition on them (wherE) will not take place?
[23:32:30] <TomyLobo> mapreduce no, gigantisch
[23:32:35] <mapreduce> lt232: You haven't asked a question, prick.
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[23:32:52] <lt232> sorry guys
[23:33:14] <Lone_Rifle> ~howtoaskforhelp
[23:33:15] <javabot> Lone_Rifle, what does that even *mean*?
[23:33:16] <xeer> lt232: I gave you the chance in pm to learn before posting homework
[23:33:18] <TomyLobo> PrimeZ refer to your server's manual. though you might give NOT ISNULL(field) a shot
[23:33:41] <kercyr> ~average
[23:33:41] <javabot> kercyr, what does that even *mean*?
[23:33:59] <Lone_Rifle> they've changed javabot's response to unknown keywords. hmph.
[23:34:12] <mapreduce> Yeah, my original wording was far better.
[23:34:21] <TomyLobo> what was it?
[23:34:32] <Lone_Rifle> "i have no idea what <keyword> is"
[23:34:50] <cheeser> they == me
[23:34:50] <TomyLobo> hmm abusable
[23:35:01] <cheeser> not really
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[23:35:14] <TomyLobo> i have no idea ~yourmom is
[23:35:18] <TomyLobo> +what
[23:35:25] <Lone_Rifle> javabot sounds a bit hysterical now
[23:35:26] <javabot> Lone_Rifle, what does that even *mean*?
[23:35:30] <mapreduce> Amusing when you tell someone else about a non-existent factoid.
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[23:35:41] <mapreduce> ~~ cheeser smelly feet
[23:35:42] <javabot> cheeser, what does that even *mean*?
[23:36:01] <Lone_Rifle> see, it even acts indignant when i pass a comment about it
[23:36:49] <cheeser> i need to fix that, actually, to bother the sender on a bad factoid like that.
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[23:37:32] <kba> anybody have experience with CHARVA? I installed it as http://www.pitman.co.za/projects/charva/Download.html instructed me, but when I do "sh test.sh" nothing happens. "sh test.sh swing" works, however.
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[23:38:01] <TomyLobo> nice portmanteau
[23:38:10] <mapreduce> kba: support at pitman dot co.za
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[23:38:48] <mapreduce> Sorry, that was just a guess, but this isn't: http://www.pitman.co.za/projects/charva/Support.html
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[23:39:50] <mapreduce> kba: What terminal are you running it within?
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[23:39:56] <kba> bash
[23:40:11] <mapreduce> No, that's your shell.
[23:40:24] <mapreduce> E.g., xterm, rxvt, gnome-terminal, OS X Terminal
[23:40:28] <kba> Standard MacOSX Terminal
[23:40:39] <TomyLobo> konsole *cough*
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[23:41:50] <mapreduce> There's nothing in the docs that I can see referring to OS X's Terminal, so I'd try the mailing list.
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[23:47:54] <kba> thanks
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[23:50:06] <Wyvern666> why the read() in InputStream returns an int in the range 0-255 and read() in Reader returns an int in the range 0-65535?
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[23:50:28] <carutsu> is there a BufferedReader to read just data, not text?
[23:50:37] <cheeser> because InputStream operattes on bytes and Reader on char
[23:50:46] <cheeser> carutsu: InputStream
[23:50:51] <cheeser> but it's not buffered
[23:51:24] <carutsu> cheeser: basically what I can is have a buffer to keep all the characters untill an end of line is read
[23:51:27] <carutsu> *want
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[23:51:57] <cheeser> then use a BufferedReader
[23:52:28] <Wyvern666> [cheeser] and why the range is small for bytes?
[23:53:00] <shiranpuri> Wyvern666: cuz that's the size for bytes?
[23:53:01] <carutsu> cheeser: but the tream has more than characters
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[23:53:07] <cheeser> unless you don't really mean "characters" in which case you shouldn't say characters
[23:53:18] <cheeser> Wyvern666: how large a number can a byte hold?
[23:53:20] <carutsu> pardon me
[23:53:27] <carutsu> cheeser: pardon me the bytes
[23:53:55] <cheeser> then the idea of EOL is meaningless with binary data
[23:54:30] <Wyvern666> mm yes is 255
[23:55:10] <carutsu> cheeser: unless, of course, I'm controling that binary data and can asure that an EOL character means that it's the end of the message
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[23:56:01] <cheeser> then read until you see 13 and dump the bytes in to a ByteArrayOutputStream
[23:57:08] <carutsu> cheeser: that's what I needed!, thank you :-D
[23:57:27] <cheeser> sure
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[23:58:02] <carutsu> cheeser: just one thing, what I failed to tell you is that all this is just for a socket and all I want is to make sure I have all the bytes before reading the message
[23:58:12] <carutsu> thanks :-)
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[23:59:14] <cheeser> i'm writing the same kinda code at this very moment.
[23:59:14] <cheeser> 8^)=
[23:59:33] <carutsu> cool
[23:59:45] <carutsu> B-)
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   March 4, 2011  
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