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[00:00:13] <Blackwell> n0b0dY: and how do you transmit the binary data? using the same underlying stream and socket, no?
[00:00:13] <n0b0dY> i just use the same stream after the control state with OutputDataStream to transmit the binary data
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[00:00:27] <Blackwell> n0b0dY: that's horrible. do not do that.
[00:00:48] <d03boy> just use a DataInputStream or something
[00:00:55] <d03boy> for binary data
[00:01:02] <n0b0dY> i use
[00:01:31] <Blackwell> use the top level stream/reader/writer that you put on top. do not use the underlying streams/readers/writers anymore, unless you know what you are doing.
[00:01:37] <n0b0dY> i could show you the code but it is kinda big
[00:01:55] <n0b0dY> what you mean by underlying and top level etc
[00:02:36] <Blackwell> n0b0dY: this.br = new BufferedReader(new InputStreamReader(this.sock.getInputStream()));
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[00:03:06] <n0b0dY> man....8 hours of shit coding.....how someone can make me do a work on this with 2 weeks of java class..ridiculous
[00:03:13] <n0b0dY> Blackwell: what?
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[00:03:43] <Blackwell> n0b0dY: this.br = new BufferedReader(new InputStreamReader(this.sock.getInputStream()));
[00:03:51] <jenner> Hm, javax.mail.* clearly needs to be rewritten for 1.5
[00:04:03] <mohadib> is it acceptable to have a ctor that is only used when testing the object , or does this imply im trying to test a class that is to tighly coupled
[00:04:04] <n0b0dY> Blackwell: what you mean send that to me?: that is underlying or top level stream reader/writer?
[00:04:04] <d03boy> jenner, whats that?
[00:04:09] <Blackwell> n0b0dY: you are layering/sandwiching streams/readers/writers there, don't you agree?
[00:04:21] <n0b0dY> Blackwell: yes
[00:04:27] <n0b0dY> that's bad?
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[00:04:33] <Blackwell> n0b0dY: no.
[00:04:41] <mohadib> and if so , should I then focus on testing componenst that have very specific jobs and are not tightly coupled (the few)
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[00:05:15] <jenner> d03boy: mime parsing utilities, interfaces for mail stores (imap/pop3), some address types and stuff like that
[00:05:16] <Clackwell> n0b0dY: accessing the lower level components of that sandwich directly is, though, in my opinion. it is an invitation for data corruption.
[00:05:37] <d03boy> Clackwell, which ones are lower level?
[00:05:37] <n0b0dY> hum
[00:05:46] <n0b0dY> d03boy: exatcly
[00:05:58] <n0b0dY> what you mean by lower level?
[00:06:07] <Clackwell> d03boy: the stuff that you get from the socket is lowest level.
[00:06:25] <Clackwell> we are not talking about stuff growing downwards, rather upwards.
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[00:07:02] <n0b0dY> i didnt find any fscking good java sockets tutorial on transmiting files etc....neither examples. i think ppl dont like java for netowrking =P
[00:07:25] <Clackwell> n0b0dY: spare us such outburst.
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[00:07:35] <Clackwell> outbursts, rather
[00:07:36] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Dude, are you around?
[00:07:42] <verveeld> n0b0dy: doesnt DataOutputStream work for files
[00:07:42] <n0b0dY> Clackwell: ok
[00:07:44] <n0b0dY> im living
[00:07:52] <n0b0dY> cya guys....i cant understand that...
[00:07:55] * cheeser blinks
[00:07:55] <n0b0dY> thx for help
[00:07:59] <cheeser> wth?
[00:08:03] <Clackwell> you suck, dude.
[00:08:10] <n0b0dY> Clackwell: as you do
[00:08:16] <Clackwell> next time you ask for help, go the full distance.
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[00:08:25] <Clackwell> don't waste the effort by giving up.
[00:08:30] <n0b0dY> k
[00:08:35] <n0b0dY> finish your explanation
[00:08:40] <n0b0dY> i' ll try
[00:08:41] <shredstar> I have two Date objects handy. What's the best way to display the difference in time? This is usually 0:01 to 3:00 (1 minutes to 3 hours, and displayed in a JTable cell).
[00:08:57] <Lars_G> Hey cheeser, how's life?
[00:09:05] <shredstar> This doesn't really seem like a SimpleDateFormat thing.
[00:09:09] <n0b0dY> sorry for wasting your time. but things could be easier with an example
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[00:09:56] <Pyramide> shredstar: dateformat.format(new Date(date1.getTime() - date2.getTime()))
[00:10:49] <cheeser> Lars_G: not bad.
[00:10:56] <Clackwell> n0b0dY: i am looking for a graphic
[00:11:09] <Pyramide> this will give you a date like 1970-01-01 3:00 but if the difference is only some hours and the dateformat only displays hours and minutes that should be enough
[00:11:09] <n0b0dY> ok, thx
[00:11:14] <cheeser> javabot: tell shredstar about joda time
[00:11:15] <javabot> shredstar, joda time is an excellent date/time implementation for Java.  http://joda-time.sourceforge.net
[00:12:27] <Clackwell> n0b0dY: http://pastebin.com/410387
[00:12:44] <Clackwell> n0b0dY: which is top level, the BufferedReader or the OutputStream?
[00:12:44] <Lars_G> cheeser: Good to hear
[00:12:54] <shredstar> cheeser: thanks, I'll look into that whemn Im interested in adding gobs more projects to my project.
[00:13:43] <Lars_G> Hmm nice api
[00:13:49] <Geren> question, are all array declarations done at run-time by Java?
[00:13:55] <n0b0dY> Clackwell: buffered
[00:14:03] <Clackwell> n0b0dY: correction: http://pastebin.com/410390
[00:14:05] <Geren> if i do "int[] MyInt=new int[30];"
[00:14:12] <Geren> is this done at run-time or compile time?
[00:15:12] <vinse> Geren: you've hardcoded the type and the array size, what is left there to do at runtime?
[00:15:40] <Lars_G> And more importantly, why do you want to know?
[00:16:26] <n0b0dY> Clackwell: ok, buffered is the top level
[00:16:29] <Clackwell> n0b0dY: in order to recognize all valid linebreak variants BufferedReader.readLine() needs to look ahead 1 char to detect the 2 characters linebreak variant. it cannot "peek" into the stream, that means it needs to read from the stream. when it does that, the byte it read got removed from the stream. what if you use the InputStream at that point, wouldn't that one byte be missing (if it wasn't part of a linebreak combination)?
[00:16:39] <Geren> vinse, but what if i do "int[] myInt = {1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128}", that's done at run-time, no?
[00:16:53] <vinse> even less so
[00:16:56] <Geren> huh?
[00:17:11] <Geren> my O'Reilly book says that this type of array literals are created and initialized at run-time
[00:17:11] <vinse> in that case even the contents of the array are decided at compile time
[00:17:35] <Geren> huh? r u sure?
[00:17:40] <Geren> from my O'Reilly book: "It is important to understand that the Java Virtual Machine architecture does not support any kind of efficient array initialization. In other words, array literals are created and initialized when the program is run, not when the program is compiled."
[00:17:48] <n0b0dY> Clackwell: yes
[00:18:05] <Clackwell> n0b0dY: i am in the middle of explaining why accessing the BufferedReader AND the InputStream directly in this scenario is a very bad idea, that almost always has to lead to data corruption.
[00:18:05] <vinse> Geren: oh ok, they're jsut saying youre' not saving anything by doing it that way i guess
[00:18:08] <Lars_G> Geren: And you doubt the book?
[00:18:14] <vinse> i'm unclear on why they say it's "important" to know tht?
[00:18:15] <ernimril> ~tell Geren about aolbonics
[00:18:15] <javabot> Geren, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
[00:18:19] <shredstar> Pyramide: weird.  new Date( (new Date()).getTime()) - date.getTime() ) is returning 4:00 on a "date" that's a few seconds old.  I'm in PDT, or PST, which changes to PDT tonight.
[00:18:45] <Clackwell> n0b0dY: and similar thoughts apply to output, esp. due to buffering, etc. so how does that relate to your code example?
[00:18:48] <Geren> vinse, so are arrays initialized at compile time or run time?
[00:19:25] <n0b0dY> Clackwell: that i did not get...i use InputStream method to read?
[00:19:30] <n0b0dY> Clackwell: dunno if i got the point
[00:19:47] <Lars_G> n0b0dY: I think the point is use one or the other but not both
[00:20:01] <n0b0dY> hum
[00:20:04] <vinse> Geren: apparently runtime, but why do you care?
[00:20:09] <vinse> it's an acedemic point
[00:20:13] <n0b0dY> clear now
[00:20:13] <javabot> n0b0dY: wrong window, pal
[00:20:15] <n0b0dY> thx
[00:20:21] <vinse> s/ace/aca
[00:20:38] <Clackwell> n0b0dY: you put a text thingie on top of the basic inputstream. abut you want to read text and binary data. so something is wrong.
[00:20:43] <Pyramide> shredstar: hmm iirc it worked when I tried it
[00:20:48] <Clackwell> abut=but
[00:20:52] <vinse> Geren: i realize you're trying to learn , but you'd be better served by doing osme type of programming tasks
[00:20:59] <Pyramide> shredstar: testing...
[00:21:06] <vinse> Geren: you seem to need context
[00:21:12] <Geren> vinse, wait but u said compile-time
[00:21:24] <vinse> well the book says i'm wrong
[00:21:24] <Geren> i mean what is the general rule to decide if something is done at run-time or compile-time
[00:21:25] <Lars_G> Geren: You're unbearable.
[00:21:30] <Geren> i am trying to learn!
[00:21:32] <Geren> god!
[00:21:32] <cheeser> Lars_G: easy
[00:21:35] <n0b0dY> Clackwell: i dont use the same encapsulating to read both. i change it to DataInputStream
[00:21:38] <Lars_G> cheeser: sigh, sorry
[00:22:32] <Lars_G> Sorry too Geren
[00:22:44] <Clackwell> n0b0dY: ok, if that solves it. but the rule of thumb remains: if you put a BufferedReader on top, never access the InputStream directly again, you must keep using the top level object, BufferedReader in the case we discussed.
[00:23:07] <Geren> ti's ok
[00:23:27] <vinse> Geren: i must admit to being pretty confused about what i means to initialize an array at compile time ... i thought initialization was a runtime activity
[00:23:36] <n0b0dY> Clackwell: got that. but where in my code i accessed the InputStream?
[00:23:42] <vinse> perhaps some one with more jvm knowledge can speak to that
[00:23:58] <shredstar> Pyramide: yeah, something's fishy here. im testing something now too.
[00:24:09] <Clackwell> n0b0dY: nowhere. i was just explaining what i meant about top/lower level.
[00:24:47] <n0b0dY> Clackwell: get to zero point again. i dont know will my program stopped
[00:24:57] <shredstar> Pyramide: Oh, the problem is that new Date(0) happened at 4AM Jan 1 1970.
[00:25:20] <Clackwell> n0b0dY: i still suspect that it waits for the input to contain a valid linebreak.
[00:25:29] <Pyramide> ~javadoc SimpleDateFormat
[00:25:29] <javabot> Pyramide, please see java.text.SimpleDateFormat: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/text/SimpleDateFormat.html
[00:25:33] <Pyramide> thanks
[00:25:36] <n0b0dY> Clackwell: le me test
[00:25:43] <Clackwell> n0b0dY: how else could it return? should it return with half a line read? that's not possible.
[00:25:53] <Pyramide> shredstar: ah you need to set UTC first
[00:26:00] <Pyramide> ~pastebin
[00:26:00] <javabot> Paste your code, preferably a test case, any errors, and any other relevant information into the pastebin and tell us the URL: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin
[00:26:38] <n0b0dY> Clackwell: i should have thought on that before =/
[00:26:42] <d03boy> ah, I finally realized what Clackwell was saying
[00:26:43] <vinse> Geren: i would guess it means there is no difference between "int[] arr = {1};" and "int[] arr = new int[1]; int[0] = 1" once it's compiled to byte code
[00:26:52] <Pyramide> shredstar: there http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8629
[00:27:04] <Clackwell> d03boy: sorry fvor being unclear, fuzzy
[00:27:21] <Clackwell> it seems to be called "wrapping streams" or so.
[00:27:33] <Pyramide> gah why does pastebin have such ugly linebreak
[00:27:38] <d03boy> no worries, some stuff is difficult to explain to someone who doesnt know all of the terminology
[00:27:42] <Stork> my program that i wrote to send one file from one computer to another computer worked fine! there was no data loss at all.
[00:27:45] <Pyramide> shredstar: that code prints 00:00:05 for me
[00:28:01] <Geren> vinse, right
[00:28:09] <Clackwell> Stork: sounds like n0b0dY here would die to talk to you about details.
[00:28:18] <Stork> heh
[00:28:19] <Geren> vinse, but is there a reason why one method would be better than the other, memory wise?
[00:28:21] <Stork> by the way Clackwell
[00:28:28] <Stork> i turned off my auto completer ;)
[00:28:40] <Stork> now i can type "well," without bothering a sleeping giant
[00:28:48] <Clackwell> Stork: haha, nevermind me, i was just kidding when i meant you should do something about it.
[00:29:02] <shredstar> Pyramid: setting UTC is kind of kludgey.  there should be a more elegant way to determine hh:mm:ss difference between two Date objects.
[00:29:17] <n0b0dY> Stork: i'd like to see that, if possible
[00:29:20] <Stork> Clackwell, to be honest, i didn't like it much anyway :p
[00:29:22] <vinse> Geren: well, if the array was "initialized at compile time" (whatever that means) i geuss it would save some cycles cuz it wouldnt have to be initialized at compile time ... since that doesnt happen it's just a question of style i guess
[00:29:26] <shredstar> but yeah, I can see how that snippet works.
[00:29:28] <Stork> n0b0dY, the client or the server?
[00:29:33] <n0b0dY> Stork: both
[00:29:35] <Clackwell> Stork: i couldn't irc without the autocompleter. maybe make it work only when pressing TAB or something?
[00:29:36] <Pyramide> shredstar: of course, the manual way with modulo
[00:29:41] <vinse> err, the second compiel time should be run time
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[00:30:07] <Geren> vinse, so you are saying that the first method is better?
[00:30:14] <vinse> no
[00:30:22] <vinse> i'm saying it's a question of style
[00:30:29] <vinse> but i'm still pretty confused about the whole thing
[00:30:33] <Geren> hmm
[00:31:07] <Pyramide> long diff = date1.getTime() - date2.getTime(); long secs = (diff/1000)%60; long mins = (diff/60000)%60; System.out.printf("difference: %d minutes and %d seconds", mins, secs);
[00:31:07] <vinse> i thought "initialization" was the process of creating memory space for a variable and assigning it a value
[00:31:12] <Pyramide> @shredstar
[00:31:20] <vinse> i dont really get how that could be done at compile time
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[00:31:28] <Clackwell> vinse: allocation vs. initialisation ?
[00:31:31] <Stork> n0b0dY, the client or the server?
[00:32:03] <vinse> Clackwell: ok, but what is the differene between "compile time initialization" and "run time initialization"?
[00:32:14] <Stork> n0b0dY ??
[00:32:22] <n0b0dY> Stork: both
[00:32:30] <shredstar> Pyramide: I think I'll do that - save the "long getTime();" values.
[00:32:43] <Stork> Server: http://rafb.net/paste/results/jyMPJo19.html
[00:33:09] <Stork> Client: http://rafb.net/paste/results/8FjHUu38.html
[00:33:14] <Stork> enjoy, be back latere
[00:33:17] <Clackwell> vinse: no idea. perhaps it is meant as in delphi, where you declare a variable x and it is not a reference but rather the object itself (something which java doesn't offer). so when starting the program - x already exists, and is an object!
[00:33:17] <Stork> later**
[00:33:37] <shredstar> They stuff as much junk into the JDK as Rosie O'Donnell stuffs into her mouth - you'd think there would be something in there already.
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[00:33:46] <vinse> Geren: the main point here, as you should be able to tell, is that this issue has no real practical importance
[00:33:59] <vinse> Geren: gettng hung up on it is not productive imo, go write some code
[00:34:17] <Geren> ok thanks
[00:34:32] <n0b0dY> Stork: thx
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[00:39:09] <Geren> we know that in Java, when we instantiate an object and store it to a variable, that variable only stores the reference to that object, not the object itself
[00:39:19] <Geren> but my question is, is this true for String as well?
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[00:39:37] <Geren> I know that String has its own syntax of instantiation that makes it look like its  a primitive data type
[00:39:54] <d03boy> String is an object... its stored on the heap
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[00:40:07] <Stork> it's no ordinary object
[00:41:32] <mohadib> its a super object!
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[00:41:49] <d03boy> i guess I dont see how String is any different than any other object :\
[00:42:12] <Stork> super ;)
[00:42:25] <ayrnieu> doeboy - it overloads an operator, for one.
[00:42:29] <Stork> ~mohadib++
[00:42:30] <javabot> mohadib has a karma level of 53, Stork
[00:42:52] <d03boy> ayrnieu, is that it though?
[00:43:06] <ayrnieu> doeboy - it has a convenient literal object syntax, for two.
[00:43:23] <mebsd> string is object
[00:43:28] <d03boy> what do you mean by literal object syntax
[00:43:34] <d03boy> I cant remember what a literal object is
[00:44:07] <ayrnieu> doeboy - "hi".  'any other object' can't extend Java to support pretty literals.
[00:44:27] <Geren> in other words, if i pass a String variable to a method, and then i modify that variable in my method, does it simply modifies a copy of my variable, or does it modify the original variable?
[00:44:44] <Geren> cause if String is just a regular Class type, then it should change the original content
[00:44:49] <ayrnieu> geren - you don't modify variables except through assignment.
[00:44:51] <Geren> since they are passed by reference
[00:44:51] <cheeser> Geren: java is only pass by value
[00:44:52] <bpalmer> Geren:  you don't pass varibles, you pass references
[00:45:04] * cheeser watches chaos ensue
[00:45:06] <bpalmer> references to objects, or (primitive) objects themselves, that is
[00:45:08] <Garibaldi> Geren: and Strings are immutable
[00:45:17] <Geren> what does immutable mean?
[00:45:21] <d03boy> Geren, Strings get recreated every time you change them
[00:45:23] <ayrnieu> geren - 'non-mutable'.
[00:45:24] <Garibaldi> cannot be changed
[00:45:25] <cheeser> it can't be changed
[00:45:30] <Geren> ok i c
[00:45:34] <Clackwell> Geren: it is up to each class to decide wether it can be changed or not. the java designers wanted the String class to be immutable.
[00:45:55] <d03boy> Clackwell, I thought you had to use a StringBuffer if you want them to be mutable
[00:46:05] <ayrnieu> also, underivable.  The Java designers wanted much from the String class.
[00:46:20] <Clackwell> d03boy: String objects are immutable. no other class can change that.
[00:46:34] <d03boy> ok, I misunderstood you
[00:46:57] <Clackwell> you made StringBuffer sound like a helper class to modify String objects ;)
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[00:47:12] <Clackwell> perhaps misunderstanding on my part
[00:47:28] <shredstar> Not only is String immutable, but you can't change them either.
[00:47:34] <d03boy> I thought you were saying that whoever uses the String class can decide if it is immutable or not, which isnt what you were saying
[00:47:37] <taf2__> i'm new to java, can I cast an -1 int to a nice huge unsigned int?
[00:47:42] <mebsd> is String the only immutable object
[00:47:48] <cheeser> taf2__: ints are signed
[00:47:52] <Clackwell> taf2__: try?
[00:47:53] <cheeser> no unsigned ints
[00:47:57] <taf2__> cheeser: so are their unsigned ints?
[00:48:05] <Garibaldi> taf2__: no
[00:48:05] <taf2__> ah
[00:48:07] <Clackwell> taf2__: see java data types list?
[00:48:09] <shredstar> there
[00:48:26] <mebsd> whole number?
[00:48:28] <cheeser> javabot: primitives
[00:48:28] <javabot> cheeser, primitives is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/datatypes.html
[00:48:32] <mebsd> natural number?
[00:49:02] <taf2__> :-( it's nice to cast -1 to unsigned int ;-)
[00:49:35] <Clackwell> because that...cuts down on typing effort?
[00:49:55] <Clackwell> do i smell the stench of c?
[00:50:13] <ayrnieu> do you smell what the C is cooking?
[00:50:21] <n0b0dY> Stork: i have to follow some protocol specifications
[00:50:25] <taf2__> what's C?
[00:50:26] <Clackwell> c can cook?
[00:50:32] * taf2__ giggles
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[00:50:53] <n0b0dY> Stork: can i use DataInputStream to send a "/filesize <size of file>" comand?
[00:51:05] <Clackwell> n0b0dY: highly unlikely.
[00:51:37] <taf2__> anyone here have a nice example of using SocketChannel to do asynchronous IO for scrapping a webpage?
[00:51:38] *** OleMoudi`away is now known as OleMoudi
[00:51:47] <n0b0dY> Clackwell: i must encapsulate with other type then return to DatAInputStream?
[00:52:01] <Clackwell> taf2__: sounds like the wrong tool for the job to me.
[00:52:20] <taf2__> Clackwell: cool, what do you suggest?
[00:52:21] <Clackwell> n0b0dY: input streams are for receiving, not for sending.
[00:52:23] <cheeser> taf2__: use httpunit
[00:52:32] <cheeser> or nekohtml
[00:52:35] <Clackwell> taf2__: if in doubt, Socket
[00:52:39] <d03boy> File.length() returns the size of a file in bytes
[00:52:40] <taf2__> neat... you mean neckohtml?
[00:52:49] <Clackwell> taf2__: for bare socket stuff. else what cheeser suggests.
[00:52:53] <taf2__> Clackwell: hmm... Socket's not async though?
[00:52:54] <Clackwell> HTMLPARSER HTML Parsers (possibly handling dirty HTML): http://httpunit.sourceforge.net/ http://jwebunit.sourceforge.net/ http://htmlparser.sourceforge.net/
[00:53:03] <taf2__> is httpunit async?
[00:53:06] <Clackwell> taf2__: why does it need to be? that's my whole point.
[00:53:25] <n0b0dY> Clackwell: Sorry, just confused the words
[00:53:33] <taf2__> Clackwell: hmm... why wouldn't it be i guess is my point?
[00:53:36] <Clackwell> taf2__: nio is not the answer, typically, but the question, and typically the answer is, in my opinion, no.
[00:53:40] <n0b0dY> Clackwell: cai i use DataOutputStream for that?
[00:53:54] <taf2__> ok, just wanted to find out thanks for helping
[00:54:04] <Clackwell> n0b0dY: i don't know. do the api docs suggest that you can?
[00:55:06] <Clackwell> taf2__: nio possibly makes something simple very complicated for no good reason, unless you have one of these one of a thousand cases, which i doubt by default. irc habit, based on irc experience. :)
[00:55:32] <cheeser> i didn't find NIO to be all that complicated.
[00:55:41] <cheeser> but it's been a while since i've mucked with it.
[00:55:59] <taf2__> Clackwell: k... i guess something i'd be interested in knowing is can one extend SocketChannel?
[00:56:05] <Clackwell> cheeser: anything more complicated and in less widespread use than Socket needs a good excuse, in my opinion.
[00:56:15] <n0b0dY> Clackwell: where do i consult the api docs? =P
[00:56:16] <Clackwell> taf2__: the api docs can answer that, i think.
[00:56:20] <Clackwell> n0b0dY: APIDOCS The API documentation for the Java standard libraries ( download at http://java.sun.com/docs/ ) lists ALL classes (see link "All Classes") and ALL methods (see link "Index"): http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/overview-summary.html
[00:56:22] <cheeser> taf2__: http://people.apache.org/~andyc/neko/doc/html/
[00:56:31] <taf2__> cheeser: thanks
[00:56:45] <cheeser> sure
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[00:57:43] <n0b0dY> thx
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[00:58:50] <shredstar> hello
[00:59:06] <Clackwell> re shred
[00:59:23] <taf2__> is there a method for extending a class that defines a static method to create itself, such as SocketChannel?
[00:59:38] <taf2__> like, can I have that method create part of the object?
[00:59:55] <taf2__> like super = SocketChannel.open or some such pattern?
[01:00:11] * taf2__ is trying to think things through first before designing too much first...
[01:00:29] <cheeser> taf2__: no
[01:00:44] <cheeser> SocketChanel.open is not a class
[01:01:03] <taf2__> err.. well what it returns is... i meant SocketChannel.open() ;-)
[01:01:05] * Clackwell shudders
[01:01:12] <Clackwell> consider java basics before nio
[01:01:15] <cheeser> what are you trying to do?
[01:01:20] <cheeser> Clackwell: forsooth
[01:01:22] <taf2__> extend SocketChannel
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[01:02:21] * taf2__ is writing a web crawler :-)
[01:03:09] <taf2__> one would be foolish to use threads when designing a web crawler ;-) so async io is the way to go... be nice to use a higher level language but i need to understand what sort of limitations that imposes
[01:05:36] <taf2__> the beauty of being able to extend SocketChannel is this... I would not have to maintian separete look up tables... each socket would know what functionality it was responsible for
[01:05:52] * Clackwell just shakes his head
[01:06:02] <taf2__> Clackwell: how'd you do it then?
[01:06:14] * taf2__ is here to learn and be correct
[01:06:29] <Clackwell> taf2__: threads, Socket, unless you know why those are unsuitable.
[01:06:45] <ernimril> taf2__: are you sure that you want to handle http yourself?
[01:06:52] <taf2__> Clackwell: the cost of creating threads and sharing a synchronized list of urls is very high
[01:06:56] <ernimril> taf2__: http/1.1 is very complicated...
[01:07:28] <taf2__> ernimril: i realize this... i've dealt with it before
[01:07:42] <Clackwell> taf2__: prove that the costs of the threads are relevant, esp. in relation to the typical bandwidth that you expect people to have.
[01:08:00] <taf2__> Clackwell: i expect the crawler to have considerable bandwidth
[01:08:10] <Clackwell> taf2__: 1000 threads waiting for input are pretty cheap.
[01:08:15] <ernimril> taf2__: well a bad implementation is easy...
[01:08:36] <taf2__> Clackwell: 1000 threads hitting a shared data structure is not cheap
[01:08:48] <Clackwell> taf2__: don't share it then?
[01:09:10] <taf2__> Clackwell: how can thread 1 know that thread 2 - 1000 hasn't already downloaded that page?
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[01:09:21] <Clackwell> taf2__: and why are those threads hitting the data structure anyway? and how often per second?
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[01:10:40] <ernimril> taf2__: why would thread 1 need to know that?
[01:10:40] <Lusitanian> hello
[01:10:46] <Clackwell> taf2__: the threads are not polling the data structure, a master thread is assigning work to job-less worker threads?
[01:11:00] <ernimril> taf2__: if you do it threaded you have one thread that distributes urls to the worksers
[01:11:08] <ernimril> s/worksers/workers/
[01:11:46] <taf2__> yes... actually i have it set up to do that but each thread in your case is a process
[01:11:46] <ernimril> I am currently rewriting my http proxy to be fully nio...
[01:12:09] <taf2__> ernimril: cool
[01:12:21] <Clackwell> taf2__: you used the data structure design example as prove for your design decision. since we took that apart, i would reconsider.
[01:12:24] <ernimril> taf2__: interesting...
[01:12:40] <Clackwell> proof, rather
[01:12:53] <shredstar> ernimril: Whats the biggest advantage to doing that?
[01:13:06] <taf2__> Clackwell: you still have synchronization problems doing it that way, because each thread in the master slave example will discover new urls and have to stadn that abck to the master
[01:13:28] <ernimril> Clackwell: threads or nio programming is about the same level of difficulty. If you start from scratch you can do whatever you like...
[01:13:34] <Clackwell> taf2__: queues, etc. pp.
[01:13:39] <Clackwell> cheap excuse, it seems to me
[01:13:53] <ernimril> shredstar: less threads, less synchronization, better scalability...
[01:13:58] <Clackwell> ernimril: ok
[01:14:13] <taf2__> Clackwell: i don't quite, understand Clackwell you seem to not get the benefits of async io?
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[01:14:20] <taf2__> ernimril: yes, thank you :-)
[01:14:28] <ernimril> Clackwell: many java programmers are used to the old one thread per connection and then it can be hard to switch..
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[01:14:55] <Clackwell> taf2__: or perhaps i doubt what cheeser and ernimril tell me about nio being about as complicated as Socket i/o, and maybe i am strongly opposed to complexity fanatism.
[01:15:01] <ernimril> taf2__: until you have huge amounts of threads it does not matter much.
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[01:15:04] <Clackwell> maybe i am a simplicity fanatic.
[01:15:26] <taf2__> Clackwell: i hear you about that, and I'm not happy about some of the complications i've run into with SocketChannel
[01:15:34] <taf2__> for example not being extendable makes life much more difficult
[01:15:39] <Clackwell> and if someone wnats a more complex design rather than a simple one, i always like to hear the technical excuse for that.
[01:15:46] <Clackwell> often enough there isn't a valid one.
[01:15:48] <ernimril> taf2__: why would you want to extend it?
[01:16:25] <Clackwell> or it turns out that there are more assumptions than facts backing the decision.
[01:16:28] <taf2__> ernimril: then my selector maintains both my socketchannels and when i get them they already know what job they need to perform with me having to maintain a separate table
[01:16:53] <taf2__> Clackwell: i beg to differ, go read up on web crawlers
[01:17:00] <Clackwell> btw, the cost of creating a thread...is that really relevant? the threads are not dying, and the program is long running anyway, isn't it?
[01:17:10] <taf2__> s/with/without
[01:17:38] <taf2__> Clackwell: it's the synchronization costs in time and it's the memory cost of the extra thread and it's the context switching
[01:17:44] <jwormy> mohadib, pingy?
[01:18:06] <taf2__> Clackwell: web crawlers that use threads tend to be about as fast as a serial crawl would have been
[01:18:07] <Clackwell> taf2__: not everyone needs to write a solution for "maximum of everything". just because you write a "web crawler" does not mean that you cannot satisfy the requirements with a simpler design, and it doesn't mean that everyone writing a web crawler needs to basically reinvent google.
[01:18:10] <shredstar> I'm tired of bums going through my trash after I throw it into the big trash bin. Any suggestions on ways to make my trash "gross", to get back at these guys?
[01:18:13] <ernimril> taf2__: to be honest, one of the highest cost for a web crawler is network traffic...
[01:18:21] <Clackwell> taf2__: i strongly doubt that.
[01:18:25] <stork> ~ping
[01:18:25] <javabot> Pong
[01:18:43] <jwormy> shredstar, a dead body
[01:19:04] <Clackwell> taf2__: just make sure not to be notorious
[01:19:06] <Clackwell> NOTORIOUS "Programmers are notoriously bad at guessing where performance problems lie." (http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-11-2000/jw-1117-performance_p.html)
[01:19:12] <taf2__> ernimril: yes i agree
[01:19:32] <shredstar> I'm thinking of throwing away my $29 microwave oven. Maybe I should open it up and take a dump into the circuitry, then screw it back up, and leave this little surprise for the trolls.
[01:19:52] <shredstar> jwormy: Would you suggest that?
[01:20:04] <jwormy> shredstar, thats sick
[01:20:07] <taf2__> Clackwell: if i get past all the typicall performance issues for a crawler the real kicker is dns ;-)
[01:20:48] <Clackwell> taf2__: oh, you were asking for async dns lookup a while ago, didn't you?
[01:20:57] <Clackwell> erh, weren't you
[01:20:59] <ernimril> taf2__: dnsjava
[01:21:10] <ernimril> taf2__: a nice package for threaded dns...
[01:21:26] <Clackwell> he said threaded! put him against the wall!
[01:21:41] <taf2__> ernimril: cool, that's what i'm really loving about java all the packages out there already built :-)
[01:21:46] <delvinj> flog 'im
[01:21:47] <ernimril> taf2__: much better than suns dns handler if you are running unix/linux, bad on international versions of windows
[01:22:06] <shredstar> Yeah, all the packages of dubious quality.
[01:22:13] <taf2__> cool, win32 isn't my target so that's cool
[01:22:13] <delvinj> lol
[01:22:30] <delvinj> shredstar: i think there is a cool band name in there somewhere
[01:22:30] <ernimril> the biggest problem with suns dns handler is that it is single threaded and blocking...
[01:22:39] <Terr1> I want to be able to select a date using 3 comboboxes with year -> month -> day, any tips on how to get these in java API or joda API? get an object array containing how many days is in that month that year and so on?
[01:22:53] <taf2__> ernimril: yeah, that blocking io is a kicker
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[01:23:19] <ernimril> taf2__: if I remember correctly then version 2.0 of dnsjava uses nio
[01:23:44] <taf2__> cool
[01:24:04] <ernimril> taf2__: well, not if it does not gives an async interface...
[01:25:01] <Clackwell> Terr1: date picker?
[01:25:29] <ernimril> taf2__: http://www.xbill.org/dnsjava/
[01:26:04] <taf2__> ernimril: hehe ah true
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[01:27:59] <jwormy> delvinj, wassup buddy
[01:28:48] <delvinj> jwormy: hey dude
[01:29:00] * jwormy is jedi for the night
[01:29:13] <Clackwell> ", your code smells bad, go refactor, and make it better"
[01:29:27] <Clackwell> (re "hey dude")
[01:30:07] <delvinj> ok sounds good  =)
[01:30:37] <delvinj> my code was out drinking last night, sorry
[01:30:41] <Terr1> Clackwel, was looking for something free, isent it possible using the java API to get amount of days in a certain month and so on? so you just could put em into ur own components?
[01:31:50] <delvinj> Terr1: just search for java date picker
[01:32:00] <delvinj> there are many of these in the wild =)
[01:32:09] <Clackwell> Terr1: did i say anything about a non free date picker? if you don't like using something existing, fine. use Calendar, perhaps.
[01:32:50] <Terr1> Clackwell, oh ok my first hit was a professional solution tought it was that one you where refereing to sorry 8)
[01:33:48] <Clackwell> Terr1: now you made it sound like a free solution cannot be professional ;)
[01:34:04] * Terr1 hides
[01:34:25] <Terr1> commercial solution then 8)
[01:34:43] <Clackwell> Terr1: like mysql you mean? :)
[01:35:04] <dibblego> I work on the most expensive software on the planet; I'll tell you, the "free" ones are much better
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[01:35:34] <Clackwell> hi dibble. you work for sap now?
[01:35:41] <dibblego> lol, I work *with* SAP yes
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[01:36:05] <Terr1> dibble actually owns SAP 8(
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[01:36:27] <Clackwell> dibblego: oh excellent, i should get you in touch with my brother than. he tells me it is a real physicist's graveyard there.
[01:36:37] <Clackwell> then, rather
[01:36:44] <n0b0dY> Clackwell: i change the method to one that doesnt espect a line break and it still stop there =/
[01:36:44] <dibblego> it's not fun
[01:36:51] <Clackwell> hah ;)
[01:36:59] <Clackwell> i heard as much from a friend working at siemens
[01:37:00] <n0b0dY> dibblego: sup
[01:37:07] <dibblego> hello n0b0dY
[01:37:09] <Clackwell> he is still onging for the old bs2000 hard and software.
[01:37:23] <Clackwell> longing
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[01:39:00] <nezzari> hello, would anyone mind helping me with a little something? I would ask on the chat, but I would rather speak to 1 person.
[01:39:09] <dibblego> nezzari: ask in the channel
[01:39:52] <Garibaldi> nezzari: no lap dances
[01:40:04] <palomer> bring it!
[01:40:29] <nezzari> Alright. I have a button in a Jframe dialog. Is there a way to spawn threads from that 1 class? (perhaps a method?)or do I have to write another class with the actions and call that
[01:40:50] <dibblego> you can spawn a thread whenever you like; I doubt that's what you want to do though
[01:41:55] <nezzari> Here is what the program does. When the user presses a button, it starts 10 threads. once all the threads are done, it outputs the combined time it took each thread to complete the task
[01:41:57] <dibblego> ~tell nezzari about threads
[01:41:57] <javabot> nezzari, threads is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/essential/threads
[01:42:12] <dibblego> and your UI locks up while that's occurring right?
[01:42:56] <nezzari> That's why I want to use threads. Also, I already visited that site.
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[01:43:15] <dibblego> you want to know why you shouldn't put time consuming tasks on the EDT
[01:43:18] <palomer> yes, but can you dance?
[01:43:21] <nezzari> That's why I wanted to talk to 1 person (someone who wouldn't mind giving me a little guidance)
[01:43:29] <dibblego> and you're about to ask what the EDT is right?
[01:43:33] <nezzari> Yes
[01:43:36] <dibblego> ~EDT
[01:43:36] <javabot> dibblego, EDT is Event Dispatch Thread, the thread that drives the swing gui. See http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/misc/threads.html for a tutorial on swing and threads
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[01:43:43] <dibblego> it's something you need to know about
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[01:43:53] <nezzari> Sigh, I have a terrible teacher.
[01:44:08] <dibblego> the student teaches himself; the teacher merely guides
[01:44:22] <dibblego> the road signs, not the road
[01:44:25] <nezzari> And that's what I'm trying to do now
[01:44:46] <dibblego> tell yourself that you're terrible?
[01:44:54] <nezzari> No...
[01:45:13] <dibblego> you *need* to know what the EDT is; google it up and get crackin'
[01:45:51] <nezzari> Sigh, nvm. Thanks anyways.
[01:45:58] <delvinj> lol
[01:46:01] <dibblego> blame the teacher
[01:46:02] <Clackwell> edt
[01:46:04] <Clackwell> arf
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[01:46:16] <Clackwell> ~edt
[01:46:17] <javabot> Clackwell, edt is Event Dispatch Thread, the thread that drives the swing gui. See http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/misc/threads.html for a tutorial on swing and threads
[01:46:17] <delvinj> someone deserves a refund
[01:46:32] <nezzari> Refund? It's public school...
[01:47:06] <mohadib> then i want part of that refund
[01:47:08] <palomer> community college?
[01:47:27] <nezzari> High School.
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[01:48:06] <bab__> you might as well get used to getting little or no help from your teacher's now... you'll be better prepared for college
[01:48:10] <bab__> <-- college
[01:48:18] <dibblego> ~bab__++
[01:48:19] <javabot> bab__ has a karma level of 1, dibblego
[01:48:22] <mohadib> <-- &th grade
[01:48:25] <mohadib> 7th
[01:48:28] <dibblego> <-- college teacher
[01:48:38] <dibblego> :)
[01:48:43] <Garibaldi> <-- to-be college professor
[01:48:46] <Garibaldi> :-P
[01:48:53] <shredstar> How do I make a JTable column be exactly 80 pixels wide, always, regardless of time.
[01:48:54] <palomer> <----might be a lover but ain't no dancer
[01:48:54] <dibblego> <-- muffin man
[01:48:56] <mohadib> <-- derlic in training
[01:48:58] <Clackwell> <-- never-to-be college teacher
[01:49:14] <nezzari> Well I'm going. Thanks for trying.
[01:49:21] <Clackwell> ^wuss
[01:49:25] <mohadib> haha
[01:49:26] <dibblego> lol
[01:49:33] <dibblego> yeah, sorry we couldn't try hard enough
[01:49:46] <dibblego> you know, we provided you with all the references and keywords, but that still wasn't enough
[01:49:50] <dibblego> I wonder what is missing?
[01:50:05] <Clackwell> l'amour :)
[01:50:05] <nezzari> Usually I would figure it out myself, but I need to finish this in 30 minutes.
[01:50:08] <dibblego> blame the teacher anyway
[01:50:10] <mohadib> dibblego: give him a modevational speach
[01:50:14] <dibblego> oh you have poor time management?
[01:50:18] <bab__> you can do it!
[01:50:19] <Clackwell> oh, someone ban him for 60 minutes please :)
[01:50:27] <mohadib> heh
[01:50:40] <cheeser> javabot: hurry
[01:50:40] <javabot> aaaaarrrrreeeee     yyyyoooouuuu    iiiinnnn   aaaaaa   hhhhhhuuuurrrryyyyy????  OOOOhhhhh dddddeeeaaaarrrr!!!!
[01:50:45] <Geren> hi
[01:50:46] <Geren> ok
[01:50:49] <Clackwell> ;)
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[01:50:58] <Geren> i was just reading about packages, and i wanted to trying making a package myself
[01:51:02] <cheeser> mohadib: motivational
[01:51:08] <Geren> i made two classes, myClass.class and myClassSub.class
[01:51:08] <mohadib> sod off?
[01:51:10] <mohadib> ;)
[01:51:13] <cheeser> Geren: it's difficult.  are you up for it?
[01:51:14] <Geren> and i moved them into a folder called myPackage
[01:51:31] <Clackwell> ~conventions
[01:51:31] <javabot> Clackwell, conventions is http://java.sun.com/docs/codeconv/html/CodeConvTOC.doc.html , or "ThisIsAClassName, thisIsAVariableOrMethodName, THIS_IS_A_CONSTANT_NAME"
[01:51:33] <delvinj> <-- is all about your package
[01:51:40] <Geren> and in each of those classes, i did "package myPackage" as the first line
[01:51:43] <Clackwell> Geren: what javabot just said
[01:51:48] <Geren> then in my main code, i did "import myPackage"
[01:51:58] <shredstar> Geren: How large is your package?
[01:52:01] <Geren> 2 classes
[01:52:06] <Geren> my package contains only 2 classes
[01:52:19] <delvinj> show us your private members
[01:52:21] <Clackwell> shredstar: jealous yet? :)
[01:52:39] <Geren> i just wanted to know the correct procedure in making a package
[01:52:56] <Clackwell> Geren: possibly related: http://javafaq.mine.nu/lookup?254
[01:52:57] <Drone> That URL gave the following error: java.net.ConnectException, Connection refused
[01:53:18] <Clackwell> Geren: consider prepared an excuse for not using the sun java tutorial.
[01:53:22] <Clackwell> preparing, rather
[01:53:50] <delvinj> an interpretive dance would also be acceptable
[01:54:20] <Geren> i am reading that tutorial
[01:54:26] <Geren> but its too general, no concrete examples
[01:54:38] <mohadib> ~do tell ricky_clarkson , we're still confused http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=define%3Asod&btnG=Search
[01:54:38] * javabot does tell ricky_clarkson , we're still confused http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=define%3Asod&btnG=Search
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[01:54:59] <Clackwell> Geren: did you read the "creating and using packages" trail?
[01:55:03] <delvinj> holy shiites,  enzyme superoxide dismutase
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[01:57:08] <Geren> yes
[01:57:18] <Geren> so i put my two classes in a myPackage folder
[01:57:23] <Geren> then i used the classpath to specify that folder
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[01:57:37] <Geren> yet when i compile it still complains that it cannot access that class
[01:58:09] <Clackwell> Geren: are you boycotting help?
[01:58:27] <Geren> huh?
[01:58:40] <mohadib> ~goldfish Geren
[01:58:40] <javabot> Geren, you have a 4 second memory!  Here's a silver star and an honourary degree!!
[01:58:45] <Clackwell> Geren: stop copying .class files around. the trick is to get javac to put them where they belong. by having the .java files where they belong to start with.
[01:58:47] <mohadib> only silver!
[01:58:49] <Clackwell> Geren: possibly related: http://javafaq.mine.nu/lookup?254
[01:58:50] <Drone> That URL gave the following error: java.net.ConnectException, Connection refused
[01:59:23] <mohadib> Clackwell: does that mean you refuse to help
[01:59:37] <Geren> how will copy my .class files into that folder break anything?
[01:59:55] <Geren> i mean the classpath option allows me to speciy the directory to look for the class iles
[01:59:57] <Geren> which i did
[02:00:05] <Geren> but it still complains it cant find those class files
[02:00:05] <Clackwell> Geren: it doesn't break. it will simply not work.
[02:00:25] <Clackwell> Geren: why are you still boycotting that article that i wrote for people like you, with package issues?
[02:00:51] <Clackwell> Geren: the .class file contains the package information. did you patch your .class files with a hex editor or something? didn't think so...
[02:01:08] <shredstar> I am now viewing - How To Use Tables.  http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/components/table.html
[02:01:09] <Geren> Clackwell, what r u talking about?
[02:01:33] <shredstar> I need a way to mark a JTable column as not-resizable.
[02:01:41] <Clackwell> Geren: the package information is inside the .class file. copying the .class file elsewhere can never change it's package. never. ever.
[02:02:12] <Clackwell> shredstar: sounds tricky, given multiple platforms.
[02:02:17] <Geren> Clackwell, no! i put the package myPackage; in my .java files before i compiled them!!!
[02:02:25] <Geren> THEN i moved them to my folder!
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[02:02:39] <Clackwell> Geren: why are you still not reading that article that i gave you?
[02:02:57] <Geren> ok now it seems to work
[02:03:26] <Clackwell> Geren: if you are tired of copying the .class files where they belong, read the article. until then, keep shooting at your feet.
[02:03:43] <shredstar> Geren: How often do you manipulate the private members in your package?
[02:03:48] <Geren> Clackwell, ok, right, but my issue now is not the class files
[02:04:07] <Geren> Clackwell, i didnt specifying a classpath option, yet it still is able to access my packages
[02:04:27] <Clackwell> Geren: your java issue is solved, as you just told us. and "your" issue is ignoring advice that you asked for.
[02:04:50] <Clackwell> pretty demotivating and ingrateful, if you ask me.
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[02:05:02] <Geren> ok my question is, if i dont specify classpath, is the default behavior to look for packages in folders with the same name as the package name?
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[02:05:20] <Clackwell> Geren: starting from ".", yes. as you could have tried.
[02:05:27] <shredstar> The whole concept of "PreferredWidth" in Swing is discusting. Let me SET the damn width, idiots.
[02:05:48] <dibblego> shredstar: set the preferred width and use an appropriate layout manager
[02:05:58] <Clackwell> shredstar: my mom won't like that, with that LARGE FONT setting due to her eyesight problems.
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[02:05:59] <bpalmer> shredstar: the idea of absolute width in GUIs is silly
[02:06:03] <Geren> ok let me try
[02:06:05] * Garibaldi mumbles something about setPreferredWidth(Dimension)
[02:06:09] <Geren> first, how do i renmae a folder in unix?
[02:06:18] <Garibaldi> Geren: rm -rf
[02:06:19] <Clackwell> oh lawdee
[02:06:20] <d03boy> can anyone give me some suggestions for diff apps for cvs?
[02:06:21] <Geren> ok thanks
[02:06:33] <Clackwell> ~garibaldi++
[02:06:33] <javabot> garibaldi has a karma level of 1, Clackwell
[02:06:55] * Clackwell drums his fingers on the couch impatiently
[02:06:55] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> garibaldi!
[02:06:57] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> yes..!
[02:06:59] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> :P
[02:07:04] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> forza italia!!
[02:07:06] <Geren> the mv function does not seem to work
[02:07:14] <Garibaldi> Tallia1-KubuntuB: don't get too excited
[02:07:14] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> i have to ask you a fast thing..
[02:07:16] <d03boy> Geren, it should work fine
[02:07:17] <shredstar> An automobile designed by the Swing guys would replace the steering wheel with a "preferred direction wheel".  And "brake" in Swing would be invokeLater(new Brake())
[02:07:23] <Garibaldi> I don't do Italy
[02:07:33] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> ah
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[02:07:35] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> :(
[02:07:36] <Clackwell> people seem eager to call everything a function these days...
[02:07:37] <WebLOCH> Hey guys
[02:07:38] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> anyway
[02:07:46] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> if i have a binary file
[02:07:50] <d03boy> as opposed to a method/
[02:07:57] <WebLOCH> Looking for some assistance with Java dev/ANT under Linux, anyone fancy helping ?
[02:08:00] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> and i output with the cat command under linux that file
[02:08:01] <Clackwell> d03boy: or a program :)
[02:08:07] <jenner> WebLOCH: shoot
[02:08:07] <nater> lol @ shredstar
[02:08:11] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> what i should see?
[02:08:13] <Clackwell> WebLOCH: what is java dev/ant?
[02:08:22] <dibblego> shredstar: the swing API is of the most horrible design; you are highlighting perhaps the only decent part
[02:08:34] <Clackwell> Tallia1-KubuntuB: see linux channels?
[02:08:35] <WebLOCH> Clackwell, Java development including ANT
[02:08:47] <Clackwell> WebLOCH: ask a specific question, i gues.
[02:08:48] <Geren> Clackwell, OK Clackwell , it seems that when i name a package differently than the name of my folder where that package's classes are, it wont ind it
[02:08:49] <Clackwell> +s
[02:08:51] <Geren> *fint
[02:08:52] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> the file have been wrote in java
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[02:09:06] <Geren> Clackwell, does the package name have to be equal to the folder's name??
[02:09:08] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> and some parts of the file use ascii translation into byte
[02:09:19] <shredstar> Anything of the form    int name() {   ... } can be called a function.  If that bothers you, just s/function/method/ when talking to people. Its your problem.
[02:09:23] <WebLOCH> I am running ubuntu and I have installed JRE1.5, JDK1.5, Netbeans and ANT
[02:09:26] <dibblego> Geren: have you read that article yet? if so, why are you asking redundant questions?
[02:09:37] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> in the file i can see only chars and not numbers
[02:09:38] <Clackwell> Geren: your research seems to suggest that.
[02:09:39] <Garibaldi> shredstar: actually, no, as the class is still in scope
[02:09:40] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> is it possible?
[02:09:42] <WebLOCH> I just tried compiling a brief example and it told me that it could not resolve symbol for the IO class
[02:10:00] <dibblego> anything can be called a fucking whore; if it's a vegetable, and not a fucking whore, just change the word, your problem
[02:10:03] <Clackwell> WebLOCH: maybe it cannot find that "IO" class?
[02:10:14] <Garibaldi> lol
[02:10:15] <jenner> WebLOCH: set your classpath appropriately
[02:10:26] <WebLOCH> Clackwell, jenner as far as I can tell I have...
[02:10:39] <WebLOCH> Clackwell, jenner which is where my problem arises, hence my looking for assistance
[02:10:43] <Clackwell> WebLOCH: java vm seems to disagree with you.
[02:10:55] <dibblego> WebLOCH: there is no IO class
[02:11:11] <jenner> WebLOCH: paste your javac task to pastebin.com
[02:11:13] <dibblego> you might want to provide the error message, instead of paraphrasing it
[02:11:18] <WebLOCH> dibblego, there is an IO package, which infers at least a single class by assiociation
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[02:11:26] <Clackwell> we'll have to stroke and squeeze WebLOCH for all relevant details for 5 minutes now.
[02:11:28] <dibblego> WebLOCH: but there isn't
[02:11:30] * Clackwell starts the timer.
[02:11:35] <WebLOCH> haha
[02:11:52] <WebLOCH> Clackwell, I can leave if you guys are busy, I realised this isnt for n00bsthatportedtonix
[02:11:58] <dibblego> there is a java.io package?
[02:12:07] <WebLOCH> dibblego, should be
[02:12:16] <Geren> Clackwell, ok, but if i dont specify classpath, what is the default directory that it tries to look for packages?
[02:12:19] <dibblego> WebLOCH: you're aware that IO and java.io are not the same thing?
[02:12:20] <shredstar> WebLOCK: When is the last time you deployed your package?
[02:12:27] <dibblego> Geren: .
[02:12:30] <Clackwell> WebLOCH: it would be enough if you would do a little more than just "i have a problem.".
[02:12:39] <Geren> dibblego, what is .?
[02:12:44] <dibblego> Clackwell: don't be such a noob! break out the crystal ball
[02:12:46] <Garibaldi> Geren: the current directory
[02:12:50] <dibblego> Geren: ls .
[02:12:58] <Clackwell> dibblego: mine is at the repair shop, that's the problem.
[02:13:10] <Geren> dibblego, ok the current directory, but what folders will it know to look for?
[02:13:11] <WebLOCH> Clackwell, fair play guvna, what do you want me to pastebin?  I seem to be able to set environment variables in several places, including bash.bashrc /etc/profile
[02:13:14] <dibblego> I threw mine at my next door neighbour
[02:13:16] <Clackwell> <"oh, . denotes the current directory?"
[02:13:30] <Garibaldi> WebLOCH: don't go setting environment variables
[02:13:31] <Clackwell> dibblego: did you at least hit?
[02:13:32] <Geren> dibblego, i put my all my .class files in a folder in my current directory, yet it stil found the class files
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[02:13:42] <dibblego> Geren: "it" (the system class loader) will look according to package names/ directory structure
[02:13:54] <dibblego> Geren: because they aren't in the default package
[02:13:57] <WebLOCH> Garibaldi, linux seems terrible at doing so itself, so I have to, besides as long as im careful why ?
[02:14:07] <Clackwell> Geren: java won't recursively search all your current directory's sub-folders, if you think it will.
[02:14:11] <Garibaldi> WebLOCH: Linux doesn't do anything itself
[02:14:21] <Geren> dibblego, so if i named a package called myPackage, then by default it will try to look for those classes under ./myPackage/ folder, right?
[02:14:22] <WebLOCH> Garibaldi, fair point, but you understood my point
[02:14:27] <dibblego> WebLOCH: set the PATH env var as per install instructions and be done; if you have an issue, state what it is clearly
[02:14:30] <Garibaldi> if you want an OS that thinks it knows more than you do, use Windows
[02:14:44] <Garibaldi> WebLOCH: what variables are you setting?
[02:14:49] <dibblego> Geren: dunno, will it? have you done some reading yet?
[02:15:01] <shredstar> bpalmer: I don't care so much about absolute width, as the column being a fixed width to fit my data, and not growing as I resize the JTable. Resizing must affect all the *other* columns.
[02:15:07] <WebLOCH> Garibaldi, I had to create JAVA_HOME for ANT which seems fine
[02:15:18] <Geren> ok yes i am doing some research
[02:15:21] <dibblego> this is an Ant install problem?
[02:15:28] <WebLOCH> Garibaldi, ill go and check the java ones currently
[02:15:31] <WebLOCH> dibblego, no
[02:15:32] <dibblego> set ANT_HOME and the PATH to $ANT_HOME/bin
[02:15:42] <dibblego> WebLOCH: how many guesses do I have left?
[02:15:44] <Geren> i put two of my class files under a folder called "yourpackage" and made them a part of myPackage.
[02:15:50] <Clackwell> WebLOCH: i think you should sort your problem out before fiddling with ant. or do you not have this problem when using javac and java directly?
[02:15:52] <WebLOCH> dibblego, 880
[02:16:00] <dibblego> cripes, not many
[02:16:00] <Geren> then i did javac -classpath ./yourPackage/ test.java
[02:16:22] <dibblego> gunna state your problem clearly already?
[02:16:26] <WebLOCH> Clackwell, Netbeans now requires that you write your own ANT script, so I hadnt compiled any java till playing around with ANT, its just the order i created it in
[02:16:38] <WebLOCH> s/created/resolved
[02:16:40] <dibblego> ah, the noob + NetBeans dilemma
[02:16:46] <Clackwell> Geren: we already told you that the default class path is "." and you already assumed that java looks for myPackage in the folder ./myPackage then. so why do you screw up the class path manually?
[02:17:09] <Geren> Clackwell, just to test if it's possible to name a package different from its path!!!!1
[02:17:18] <Clackwell> Geren: aha, ok.
[02:17:31] <Clackwell> Geren: but how did that test that?
[02:17:49] <Geren> huh?
[02:18:04] <Clackwell> Geren: java will look for the myPackage package/folder in all folders that are listed in the class path.
[02:18:06] <Geren> i mean my test seem to indicate that it's not possible for a package to have a different name than the path
[02:18:37] <ernimril> it is possible if you use a special classloader...
[02:18:39] <Clackwell> Geren: well, i guess
[02:18:53] <Clackwell> yeah, break out the freak cases, excellent ;)
[02:18:56] <Geren> ok in anycase, i think i get it now
[02:19:19] <Geren> i name a package the same name as the path, then create the same path strucutre under the same directory
[02:19:22] <Clackwell> Geren: <nod> will stick better if you find out by experimenting rather than being told.
[02:19:24] <ernimril> and note that a classloader does not have to read files, it may use a prng
[02:19:29] <d03boy> do any of you sneak little things into your software to mess with users? like.. "Press F13 key to continue"
[02:19:33] <cheeser> prng?
[02:19:33] <ernimril> or something else to generate classes
[02:19:42] <ernimril> pseudo random number generator
[02:19:45] <cheeser> ah
[02:19:50] <Geren> Clackwell, but then if it'll automatically look for folders of the same name as the package, what's the point of using -classpath ??
[02:19:58] <ernimril> probably have to give a special seed though :-)
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[02:20:10] <cheeser> Geren: because the classpath tells the VM where to look
[02:20:35] <shredstar> Lovely. This just Does Not Work(tm).  getColumnModel().getColumn(1).setResizable(false);
[02:20:53] <Geren> cheeser, wait, i thought it looks under the current directory for folders of the same name as the packages
[02:21:09] <Garibaldi> shredstar: last time I looked, Object does not have a "setResizable" method
[02:21:09] <Clackwell> Geren: sometimes you want it to look for folder/package "myPackage" (and everything else) in more than one/the current folder.
[02:21:17] <cheeser> Geren: nope
[02:21:23] <cheeser> it looks at each element in the classpath
[02:21:34] <ernimril> not really true...
[02:21:36] <cheeser> and those elements may or may not be jars/zips
[02:21:39] <Clackwell> shredstar: fool, of course not. that's not twisted enough, for a swing solution.
[02:21:45] <Geren> Clackwell, oh i see!!!!!
[02:21:46] <ernimril> the system classloader only search until it finds something
[02:21:53] <cheeser> ernimril: well, yeah.
[02:21:58] <Garibaldi> shredstar: err, n/m
[02:22:09] <Geren> very interesting!!!1
[02:22:12] <shredstar> Garibaldi: That's more like it!
[02:22:36] <ernimril> oh well, time to sleep, even if classloading is fun...
[02:22:41] <ernimril> night all...
[02:22:51] <Clackwell> bye ernimril
[02:22:58] <palomer> what if a file is twice inside a classpath?
[02:23:05] <dibblego> palomer: unspecified
[02:23:19] <dibblego> most implementations search from first to last
[02:23:38] <delvinj> so you could have two different versions  of something on accident
[02:23:42] <cheeser> yep
[02:23:47] <cheeser> and it'd use the first one found
[02:23:50] <dibblego> not from the system class loader
[02:23:50] <delvinj> not that i have before, or anythihng
[02:23:52] <delvinj> .....
[02:24:00] <dibblego> the "second" one will never be found
[02:24:20] <Clackwell> class shadowing, as the orion app server calls it.
[02:24:38] <dibblego> unless, some implementation didn't search the same way each time, which is permitted
[02:25:23] <cheeser> dibblego: though, technically, that'd require not caching the class def which would be less than ideal.
[02:25:30] <cheeser> though it could also imply and aging cache
[02:25:34] <cheeser> s/and/an/
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[02:27:58] <shredstar> Well, well well.  jtable.getColumn(0).setResizable(false) *does* work when used on something other than the last column in the JTable.
[02:28:28] * delvinj screams
[02:30:25] <Clackwell> shredstar: why do you need to disable that again? disallowing the user from rearranging the sane default should require a sane excuse, i think.
[02:30:28] <shredstar> What I want is the last column to be 50 pixels wide. The other column takes up the remaining width.
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[02:32:40] <Clackwell> shredstar: how about disabling the autoresize of the column? isn't that really what you need?
[02:32:41] <shredstar>   ... All this column has in it is a time - "3:20".  Everytime I resize, the silly column is allocated 50% of the width of the table. I want everything other than the space for "3:20" to be allocated to my 0th column.
[02:32:54] <pr3d4t0r> Hello.
[02:33:01] <Clackwell> hi pred
[02:33:40] <pr3d4t0r> Clackwell!
[02:34:42] <shredstar> Clackwell: Column 0 should be resized, Column 1 should remain the same width.
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[02:35:40] <Clackwell> shredstar: yes, that sounds more like disabling autoresize for that one column
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[02:37:30] <Clackwell> shredstar: perhaps related? http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.gui/browse_thread/thread/117363bf5150a735/8153a7e1b3bd0c44?lnk=st&q=disable+column+auto+resize+jtable&rnum=1&hl=en#8153a7e1b3bd0c44
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[02:39:34] <shredstar> Clackwell: That is true that the table is set up to fill the width of the scrollpane. I'll try this suggestion.
[02:40:17] <Clackwell> shredstar: when resizing the container, you'll have to adjust the preferred widths, i guess, but that isn't too painful maybe?
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[02:49:54] <dkey> hi, I want to compare a string received over udp with another local one, but the comparison always returns false, is there any way to compar those strings!? I did String a = new String(buf); a.equals("ab"); buf is the received buffer array
[02:50:10] <dibblego> you didn't receive a String over UDP
[02:50:12] <dibblego> you received bytes
[02:50:19] <dkey> yeah, right ;)
[02:50:21] <dibblego> then you converted them using some character encoding
[02:50:32] <dibblego> which means that said character encoding must be the same on both ends
[02:50:32] <dkey> yep, with new String(buf);
[02:50:45] <dibblego> right, which is the "platform default encoding"
[02:50:48] <dkey> yes, it's localy, so it's the same
[02:51:07] <dibblego> ok, then simply use .equals
[02:51:08] <mohadib> same endianess?
[02:51:14] <keyhack> Isn't there something like Arrays.equals() ?
[02:51:21] <mohadib> when you print the string do they look the same?
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[02:51:28] <dkey> same machine. yes, I did .equals, but always returns false
[02:51:34] <dibblego> keyhack: yes, since 1.5, but I assume the String conversion is for some other legitimate reason
[02:51:43] <dibblego> dkey: then the two String instances are unequal
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[02:52:15] <dkey> isn't there a way which just compares the characters? or does that .equals do?
[02:52:20] <mohadib> yes
[02:52:37] <mohadib> dkey: maybe trim() the string before comapre
[02:52:44] <keyhack> dibblego: No, since v1.4.2 atleast: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/util/Arrays.html
[02:53:16] <keyhack> dkey: If your buffer is a byte[], then use Arrays.equals()
[02:53:24] <keyhack> dkey: No reason to waste CPU on converting to a String()
[02:53:35] <dibblego> keyhack: you're right; I'm thinking or Arrays.hashCode and toString
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[02:54:12] <dkey> keyhack: the received one is byte[], but the other string is taken from args, so it's already a string. so I need to convert it in any way
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[02:58:19] <dkey> mohadib: thx a lot! trim() does it :) rcv.trim().equals("ab") works
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[02:58:26] <mohadib> np ;)
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[02:00:12] * slava flosses his yugo
[02:00:43] <mohadib> heh
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[02:01:10] <slava> mohadib: i'm optimizing some obj-c code
[02:01:11] <mohadib> slava: with a gold platted wooden leg you dont even have to try anymore
[02:01:16] <slava> they use message sends to do matrix operations :(
[02:01:44] <mohadib> im designing an application to get paid
[02:02:03] <slava> and PICs are only supported on OS X 10.4, so we cannot use that... so we have to rewrite the code in C style, and/or optimize the algorithms
[02:02:40] <slava> mohadib: an objective C message send is about 50 clock cycles
[02:02:44] <Clackwell> programmable interrupt controllers?
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[02:02:56] <slava> polymorphic inline cache
[02:03:11] <Clackwell> oh yeah, those
[02:03:16] <Clackwell> i have one in my bedroom.
[02:03:17] <mohadib> he
[02:03:35] <mohadib> slava: too much ice
[02:03:47] <slava> i've already optimized the code to allocate about 3x less objects
[02:04:57] <dkey> btw, does trim() only remove trailing and (don't know the word..pre-standing?) characters? or does it remove white spaces between two alphabetic characters too?
[02:05:03] <slava> nope
[02:05:08] <mohadib> leading too
[02:05:28] <cybereal> dkey: removes whitespace at the beginning and end but not in the middle
[02:05:35] <dkey> yeah, leading, that's the correct translation :) ok, that's fine, thx!
[02:07:48] <mohadib> slava: i meet some guy via my lug mailing list who has 30yrs exp and is gonna help me write/design an application to assit me in getting paid
[02:07:58] <slava> what application?
[02:08:00] <mohadib> and i dont have to pay
[02:08:10] <slava> well, if you had to pay to work, that would be pretty lame
[02:08:14] <mohadib> an offsite backup software
[02:08:21] <mohadib> hehe
[02:08:23] <slava> for what oS?
[02:08:25] <mohadib> i dont have to pay him
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[02:08:37] <mohadib> at least Linux and Winders
[02:08:57] <awayfromHome> anyone here can help me with SQL? i know there is a channel for it but they didnt answer for like 45 min
[02:08:58] <slava> and OS seX?
[02:09:09] <mohadib> he can write the C to get all the meta data about a file i could ever want
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[02:09:22] <slava> a 14 year old could do that
[02:09:27] <mohadib> lol
[02:09:30] <mohadib> i can do it on linux
[02:09:32] <slava> stat() on unix and GetFileAttributes() on win32
[02:09:35] <mohadib> but i have no clue in winders
[02:09:40] <slava> win32 is crap
[02:09:40] <Jax> awayfromHome what's up
[02:09:41] <mohadib> oh
[02:09:43] <mohadib> :p
[02:09:51] <mohadib> slava: yes , but they pay
[02:09:52] <slava> carbon is about as crufty as win32, though
[02:10:42] <slava> mohadib: i have to learn some more win32 and carbon, and also learn sparc assembly... then i'll know every major CPU and OS :)
[02:10:44] <mohadib> well , i dont need much , just the file metadata that the file system will give me
[02:10:47] <mohadib> the more the better
[02:11:13] <mohadib> and the ability to set that information as well
[02:11:18] <awayfromHome> well, i have a column in my database named "DateBirth" and i want to select * from myTable where someDate is less than DateBirth
[02:11:27] <awayfromHome> but how do i compare dates
[02:11:38] <awayfromHome> < didnt work
[02:11:41] <awayfromHome> since it isnt an int
[02:11:50] <d03boy> compareTo should work?
[02:11:52] <Clackwell> awayfromHome: see your db engine's manual. and consider preparedstatement
[02:11:57] <mohadib> awayfromHome: get the long
[02:12:02] <d03boy> if the date class implements Comparable
[02:12:11] <Clackwell> d03boy: sounds like an sql question to me.
[02:12:14] <bpalmer> Indeed.
[02:12:17] <awayfromHome> im doing a sql query
[02:12:20] <d03boy> Clackwell, sorry, wasnt paying attention as usual
[02:12:21] <bpalmer> but I was fairly sure < was defined for dates
[02:12:40] <dibblego> it is
[02:12:47] <bpalmer> of course, sql doesn't even define operator= for strings...
[02:12:48] <awayfromHome> even dates in the form 12-06-1945?
[02:12:55] <dibblego> dates aren't in any form
[02:13:01] <dibblego> they are SQL data types
[02:13:06] <Clackwell> awayfromHome: db specific matter.
[02:13:09] <bpalmer> awayfromHome: is this a VARCHAR() column, or a DATE, or a TIME, or a ... ?
[02:13:10] <awayfromHome> well, when i made my column of type Date i gave it a form
[02:13:16] <awayfromHome> in parentheses
[02:13:25] <bpalmer> awayfromHome: what db?
[02:13:25] <awayfromHome> (mmddyyyy)
[02:13:29] <awayfromHome> access
[02:13:36] <bpalmer> ah, no idea
[02:13:53] <dibblego> so it's not an SQL question
[02:13:59] <dibblego> it's a MS Access question
[02:14:15] <Geren> sorry
[02:14:30] <awayfromHome> well, if dates are handled differently by DB
[02:14:42] <awayfromHome> i suppose? i figured sql would handle it
[02:14:45] <awayfromHome> the same for all DB's
[02:14:48] <cybereal> access? hah
[02:14:49] <dibblego> why did you suppose that?
[02:14:55] <dibblego> Access is arguably, not a DB
[02:14:57] <awayfromHome> because SQL is a standard language
[02:15:02] <dibblego> that it is
[02:15:16] <bpalmer> how could anybody argue access is not a DB?
[02:15:16] <awayfromHome> so why shouldnt i make the same query in access as in oracle
[02:15:23] <dibblego> it might implement something close to SQL
[02:15:37] <bpalmer> awayfromHome: SQL is a standard language, that is standardly not implemented
[02:15:42] <dibblego> bpalmer: depends on your definition of a DB; is a Java source a DB?
[02:15:56] <cybereal> I had to write some VBA apps with access and one with excel and word... omfg that's horrible
[02:16:05] <Clackwell> awayfromHome: preparedstatement is the only java solution for this, as far as i know. the jdbc escapes may have another java based route. that aside there is only the db engine specific sql implementation left to check.
[02:16:08] <bpalmer> dibblego: java source code? No, no structured way to get at the data
[02:16:19] <dibblego> bpalmer: sure there is; ANTLR works perfectly fine
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[02:19:04] <awayfromHome> well
[02:19:09] <awayfromHome> i think i found out
[02:19:10] <awayfromHome> http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/assistance/HA010546621033.aspx
[02:19:22] <awayfromHome> i just did what u said and went to microsofts help thanks
[02:19:37] <awayfromHome> *you
[02:19:38] <dibblego> good idea
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[02:20:25] <Clackwell> awayfromHome
[02:20:44] <Clackwell> awayfromHome: actually, nevermind
[02:20:55] <Clackwell> since you are happy with a db engine specific approach, rock on.
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[02:23:44] <awayfromHome> well, i was thinking i could pssibly get back all the results, and then sort them using java
[02:23:55] <awayfromHome> which would be easier, but letting sql do this work is more efficient
[02:24:07] <cybereal> can't sort beforehand with order by?
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[02:24:24] <awayfromHome> no, i dont mwan sort literally
[02:24:28] <znoG> what exactly is the difference between a String and a String literal?
[02:24:38] <bpalmer> String s; <-- a string
[02:24:42] <bpalmer> "Hi" << a string literal
[02:24:47] <znoG> ah, right. thank youi
[02:24:56] <znoG> same as: int x; and int x = 5; i guess?
[02:25:07] <bpalmer> x is an integer; 5 is an integer literal
[02:25:12] <znoG> yep
[02:25:29] <dibblego> s is a String reference
[02:25:35] * znoG heads back to his Java book :)
[02:25:55] <dibblego> http://jqa.tmorris.net/GetQAndA.action?qids=75&showAnswers=true
[02:26:07] <awayfromHome> dibblego: its a variable, an also the reference?
[02:26:17] <awayfromHome> i knew references are what point to the object in memory
[02:26:28] <bpalmer> s is a string variable that contains a reference to a string
[02:26:36] <dibblego> nothing to do with memory; everything to do with referring to an object (or the special value null)
[02:26:54] <awayfromHome> oh i see
[02:27:11] <dibblego> the handle of the frying pan, not the frying pan itself
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[02:29:14] <awayfromHome> i know this is way off topic, but anyone know how to check how old my pc is?
[02:29:15] <awayfromHome> hehe
[02:29:21] <awayfromHome> i would like to know when i purchased this
[02:29:28] <awayfromHome> anything in windows?
[02:29:39] <Sarge[BN]> heyy
[02:29:41] <Sarge[BN]> whatsup
[02:29:41] <d03boy> check system file dates? dunno
[02:29:45] <Sarge[BN]> ah
[02:30:00] <Sarge[BN]> whatsup
[02:30:57] <awayfromHome> haha
[02:31:00] <Sarge[BN]> hi
[02:31:01] <awayfromHome> yeah, that doesent work
[02:31:14] <awayfromHome> some system files say "created: 1999"
[02:31:18] <awayfromHome> i know its not nearly that old
[02:31:29] <awayfromHome> maybe its modified
[02:32:42] <cybereal> find the bank receipt for your purchase? :)
[02:33:42] <awayfromHome> well i was able to track it by a graphics adapter purchase i made
[02:33:55] <awayfromHome> i know i bought my pc very near the release date
[02:33:58] <awayfromHome> of that card
[02:34:15] <awayfromHome> its 2.5 years old, time for an upgrade
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[02:36:55] <arseniq> hi i wonder how can i build an applet for client-side uploading files
[02:38:08] <Clackwell> arseniq: preferably not at all. if you have to, get an existing one?
[02:38:13] <cheeser> 8^)=
[02:38:29] <arseniq> Clackwell: why?
[02:38:30] <Clackwell> arseniq: write an application to do that, then you know what you need to do in the applet, plus some more stuff.
[02:39:09] <cheeser> minus some others
[02:39:11] <cheeser> 8^)=
[02:39:11] <Clackwell> arseniq: applets aren't working so well without java installed on the target machines, that might limit the target audience considerably.
[02:39:54] <arseniq> Clackwell: ok i know it i will use it for an admin panel for one of my clients web site
[02:40:06] <cybereal> arseniq: you realize that web browsers can upload files right?
[02:40:11] <arseniq> so no matter limiting the target
[02:40:19] <Sarge[BN]> !a
[02:40:21] <Sarge[BN]> !users
[02:40:36] <Clackwell> arseniq: then i would look around for an existing solution.
[02:40:49] <arseniq> cybereal: yes, i also want to use a progress bar
[02:41:34] <Clackwell> arseniq: i would also consider a non java solution. not sure if it is technically possible though.
[02:41:45] <Sarge[BN]> !info
[02:41:56] <Clackwell> Sarge[BN]: abuse the bot in private perhaps
[02:41:59] <Clackwell> it really enjoys that.
[02:42:02] <cheeser> Sarge[BN]: wtf are you trying to do?
[02:42:12] <Sarge[BN]> I am sorry I come from another network
[02:42:13] <arseniq> Clackwell: i looked google deeply indeed :) but all i can find is demos, sharewares. so i think it would be nice if i can build a simple one
[02:42:15] <Sarge[BN]> just wondering what the trigger was
[02:42:18] <Sarge[BN]> to use chanserv
[02:42:42] <Clackwell> arseniq: might be cheaper to get one of those other ones.
[02:42:44] <cheeser> Sarge[BN]: then read the docs on freenode.org and leave us alone
[02:44:38] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> how to convert an of bytes in a string?
[02:44:47] <cheeser> javabot: tell Tallia1-KubuntuB about type conversion
[02:44:48] <javabot> Tallia1-KubuntuB, when trying to convert from one type to another, you should start by checking the docs for the two endpoints.  If an endpoint (or both) is a primitive, you'll have to look at the wrapper class's docs.
[02:45:15] <shredstar> What design pattern deploys rich functionality?
[02:45:21] <arseniq> Clackwell: anyway can you help me where to start my own simple uploder? :)
[02:45:24] <dibblego> wtf?
[02:45:26] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> i was searching about a Byte wrapper
[02:45:41] <Clackwell> arseniq: i already did. write an application to do it.
[02:46:04] <arseniq> Clackwell: ok how?
[02:46:10] <Clackwell> Tallia1-KubuntuB: try to describe what you want to do in a way that the rest of the world can understand you.
[02:46:25] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> byte[10] -> String
[02:46:30] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> this conversion
[02:46:40] <Clackwell> Tallia1-KubuntuB: see api docs of String i think.
[02:46:43] <cheeser> Tallia1-KubuntuB: read what javabot just said.
[02:46:44] <dibblego> did you check the docs for the String class as advised?
[02:46:47] <cheeser> and then go do it.
[02:46:50] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> i looked
[02:46:56] <dibblego> look harder
[02:46:57] <Clackwell> Tallia1-KubuntuB: see what cheeser just said.
[02:47:06] <dibblego> see what Clackwell just said
[02:47:08] <Clackwell> Tallia1-KubuntuB: bang head on table, then look again.
[02:47:12] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> but in string i found only the opposite transformation
[02:47:12] <Clackwell> eyes get stuck sometimes.
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[02:47:24] <Clackwell> Tallia1-KubuntuB: why ignore the constructors of String?
[02:47:44] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> mhh
[02:47:55] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> i didn't watch the constructors,,
[02:48:04] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> maybe there's something..
[02:48:04] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> :P
[02:48:15] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> yes
[02:48:24] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> sorry again for the stupid question
[02:48:35] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> it's more than 20 hours of coding no stop
[02:48:35] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> :P
[02:48:43] <Clackwell> Tallia1-KubuntuB: the question was ok, ignoring the bot however...
[02:48:56] <Clackwell> bed time for you.
[02:48:59] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> yes but i did check the doc of string
[02:49:00] <cheeser> obey my dog!
[02:49:08] <cheeser> er, bot!
[02:49:09] <cheeser> P^)=
[02:49:12] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> but only the methods.. forgetting the constructors..! :P
[02:49:50] <cheeser> when creating an object, always look for constructors first.  then look for static factory methods.
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[03:04:40] <Clackwell> cheeser killed the conversation.
[03:07:19] <bpalmer> we were looking for conversation constructors
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[03:08:37] <cheeser> Clackwell: i didn't kill it.  i just collected some garbage.
[03:08:38] <cheeser> 8^)=
[03:08:58] <Clackwell> ;)
[03:10:58] <cheeser> T -50 minutes to sushi
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[03:13:13] <cheeser> kinabalu: i hear you're in L.A.
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[03:16:00] <cheeser> i'm out!
[03:18:12] <Clackwell> bye cheeser, happy stuffing
[03:18:26] <Clackwell> eat enough wasabi, i hear there's parasites in raw fish
[03:18:32] <Clackwell> ;)
[03:19:58] <kinabalu> cheeser: yes, i am
[03:20:02] <kinabalu> brb
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[03:25:07] <pundai> HI EVERYBODY IM DR NICK
[03:25:18] <bpalmer> hi dr nick!
[03:25:19] <slava> HI DR NICK
[03:25:29] <pundai> hey slava hows life
[03:25:31] <pundai> bpalmer
[03:25:32] <ijoyce> hi mr dick
[03:25:40] <dibblego> hi Noctor Dick
[03:25:47] <pundai> hehe
[03:27:10] <pundai> so for java 5 if you're iterating through a stack using the new for syntax, what is the order of elements
[03:27:43] <slava> a stack only has three operations, push pop and peek
[03:27:44] <slava> no iteration
[03:27:45] <dibblego> the fact that you can is nasty
[03:28:00] <dibblego> it's YABOJ
[03:28:03] <pundai> friggin hell
[03:28:11] <dibblego> ~YABOJ is Yet Another Brokenness of Java
[03:28:11] <javabot> Okay, dibblego.
[03:28:12] <pundai> im using a stack to implement scope
[03:29:21] <slava> so why do you want to iterate it?
[03:29:42] <pundai> slava, http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/Stack.html implements iterable
[03:29:52] <dibblego> pundai: that's an unfortunate design flaw
[03:29:56] <slava> that's because Stack inherits Vector
[03:30:17] <pundai> so how would you suggest implementing a scope lookup
[03:30:20] <dibblego> interface Stack<E>{void push(E e);E pop();E peek();} // is better, but Sun and stupid both start with 's'
[03:30:54] <pundai> slava, im iterating over the scopes to look up a given symbol
[03:31:04] <slava> dynamic or lexical scope?
[03:31:16] <dibblego> use a List if you require an ordered sequential list of elements
[03:31:19] <pundai> slava, lexical (i assume)
[03:31:24] <slava> you assume?
[03:31:32] <slava> there's a big difference
[03:31:47] <Clackwell> ass-u-me
[03:32:20] <Clackwell> no developer's day is perfect without an incorrect assumption.
[03:32:35] <pundai> whoa boy, ok how about lexical then
[03:33:05] <slava> then you don't use a stack
[03:33:11] <slava> you use lexical addressing with a window
[03:33:13] <pundai> so just a list
[03:33:43] <pundai> slava, this means what?
[03:33:47] <slava> no
[03:33:55] <slava> what are you implementing?
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[03:37:04] <{aaron}> hi guys, is there a way to refer to 'this' type with generics in java?
[03:37:11] <pundai> slava, is it in the dragon book
[03:37:24] <slava> pundai: i doubt it, the dragon book is about parsers
[03:37:26] <slava> it is in SICP though
[03:37:41] <slava> google for "structure and interpretation of computer programs"
[03:38:01] <slava> its online now, and a very good book on programming in general and it covers such topics
[03:38:11] <{aaron}> e.g. interface Node<Parent, Child> { Parent getParent(); Node<??> getChild } or can this not be parameterized well?
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[03:38:40] <slava> {aaron}: no
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[03:40:23] <pundai> slava, ok thanks i will do that
[03:40:33] <pundai> slava, hows school
[03:40:34] <slava> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexical_variable_scoping
[03:40:51] <slava> this article discusses the difference between the two
[03:40:54] <slava> it calls lexical scoping 'static scoping'
[03:41:10] <slava> school?
[03:42:24] <pundai> yeah arent you at mcmaster or mcgill or something
[03:42:31] <slava> no
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[03:43:54] <shredstar> What's a good design pattern for sporting fresh content?
[03:45:22] <slava> outsourcing design pattern
[03:45:27] <pundai> wtf
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[03:51:59] <Geren> when people talk about java, they always say "have u done client-side programming or server-side?"
[03:52:03] <Geren> i never understood that that means
[03:52:09] <Geren> i mean java is java is java
[03:52:18] <Geren> why does it matter of it's "client-side" or "Server-side"?
[03:52:36] <Geren> if i write a program that displays "hello world.", is that client side or server side???
[03:52:39] <bpalmer> because the skill sets differ
[03:52:45] <Geren> can u elaborate??
[03:52:52] <bpalmer> if you're working with webapps vs gui and so on
[03:52:59] <{aaron}> Geren: the apis differ of course
[03:53:03] <Geren> what is a typical client side app
[03:53:09] <Geren> and what is a typical server side app
[03:53:10] <bpalmer> the java itself may not vary, but the process is very different
[03:53:18] <{aaron}> there is hardly any "jdbc" client side or "swing" server side
[03:53:34] <slava> or interesting server side
[03:54:01] <Geren> is it safe to say that all "beginner" java applications are client side?
[03:54:09] <Geren> that is, server side is harder?
[03:54:14] <{aaron}> you mean tutorial?
[03:54:17] <Geren> yea
[03:54:19] <Geren> thats what i mean
[03:54:22] <{aaron}> no there isn't anything harder or easier
[03:54:31] <Geren> ok, what about all those java examples on tutorials
[03:54:33] <Geren> like Hello World
[03:54:52] <{aaron}> tutorials are mostly client side simply to avoid all the exposition on how to deploy/use the server
[03:54:54] <shredstar> GUI (client side) programming takes a thick skin. People who run your stuff will nitpick it to death.
[03:55:06] <{aaron}> hello worlds are usually trivial enough (that's the point) that it doesn't matter where they are run
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[03:55:14] <pundai> hey slava you tried wx4j
[03:55:18] <Geren> ok
[03:55:33] <slava> pundai: no
[03:55:39] <shredstar> For example, jedit's Ctrl+D should delete selected lines, not the current line.
[03:55:43] <Geren> like i feel all my java programming has been so simple and non-realistic that i will never get into the real world of java
[03:55:44] <Geren> u knwo?
[03:55:49] <pundai> i tried the javaws sample and it looks so cool
[03:55:54] <Geren> like i'm sure a real java developer does not use a pure text editor
[03:55:58] <Geren> and real java apps involve GUI's
[03:56:01] <slava> shredstar: it does delete selected lines if there is a selection
[03:56:04] <pundai> i think i might use that to deploy my parser in my company
[03:56:06] <Geren> and some sort of networking/web aspects
[03:56:09] <{aaron}> Geren: tons of "real" developers use text editors
[03:56:17] <Geren> so i wanna get into real java development
[03:56:22] <{aaron}> i don't know any real developer that doesn't use a text editor
[03:56:28] <{aaron}> or any for that matter
[03:56:33] <Geren> {aaron}, but if i dont use a text editor, what are some commone IDE's for Java?
[03:56:36] <slava> are you saying those senior architects who draw UML in visio are not real developers?
[03:56:38] <pundai> {aaron}, real text editor vs what
[03:56:39] <shredstar> slava: It does not.
[03:56:46] <Geren> like NetBeans?
[03:56:49] <Geren> is that what it's called?
[03:56:49] <{aaron}> pundai: you got me :/
[03:56:55] <Geren> or JBuilder?
[03:57:01] <{aaron}> Geren: those all have text editors in them
[03:57:12] <Geren> right, but i mean they are IDE's
[03:57:22] <Geren> if i were to use one, which one do u recommend?
[03:57:24] <slava> arguably, real developers don't use java
[03:57:33] <slava> shredstar: it does in jedit 4.3
[03:57:58] <shredstar> slava: Is that new? It behaves as I say in 4.2final.
[03:58:06] <Geren> is NetBeans a popular IDE?
[03:58:06] <taf2__> VI RULES!!
[03:58:10] <slava> shredstar: probably. i'm too busy to check
[03:58:19] <{aaron}> Geren: they are all popular
[03:58:22] <Geren> ok
[03:58:24] <Geren> also
[03:58:24] <{aaron}> it doesn't really matter what IDE you use
[03:58:30] <slava> shredstar: i have to fix some performance problems in an obj-c program, asap.
[03:58:36] <Geren> what are some applications/proj i can write myself that's a bit more complex and real-world than those tutorial examples?
[03:58:49] <slava> write a game or something
[03:59:00] <taf2__> or a music player :-)
[03:59:02] <Geren> how about a server-client chat program
[03:59:04] <{aaron}> Geren: irc bots and mail clients seem popular
[03:59:06] <Geren> twith GUI's
[03:59:09] <taf2__> ooh, that's fun too
[03:59:17] <Geren> hmm ok
[03:59:20] <Geren> interesting
[03:59:24] <Geren> i think i will take on that project
[03:59:28] <taf2__> use rhino/js/xul :-)
[03:59:43] <{aaron}> i heard rhino was going to be included in java 6
[03:59:52] <taf2__> wow, that'd be awesome
[03:59:53] <{aaron}> for some reason
[04:00:00] <slava> its already included
[04:00:08] <Geren> also, in the real world, Swing is the most common way for making GUI's for java right?
[04:00:15] <slava> yes it is
[04:00:17] <Geren> ok
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[04:00:19] * taf2__ coughs use xul ;-)
[04:00:32] <Geren> and do people hardcode the GUI, or do they use a grpahical tool
[04:00:34] <{aaron}> all the xul engines i've seem generate really awful UIs
[04:00:40] <Geren> like things u can create boxes by dragging them
[04:00:45] <taf2__> i mean like gecko xul ;-)
[04:00:57] <{aaron}> Geren: i don't think there are many good graphical UI designers, most people just hand code UI
[04:01:05] <Geren> most? even in a real company?
[04:01:12] <taf2__> yes
[04:01:17] <Geren> hmm ok
[04:01:29] <slava> what is a real company?
[04:01:33] <taf2__> hehe
[04:01:35] <Geren> like say Google
[04:01:42] <Geren> or like Adobe
[04:01:51] <Geren> or like American Airlines
[04:01:54] <Geren> things like that
[04:01:56] <slava> do you realize that 99% of corporate developers are pathetically incompetent, money-hungry losers who cannot code anything worth a damn?
[04:01:58] <taf2__> i bet aa outsources
[04:02:06] <slava> basing any programming decisions on what 'real companies' do is foolish
[04:02:19] <{aaron}> slava: you are so not invited to our next company retreat :p
[04:02:21] <taf2__> preach on!!
[04:02:38] <Geren> but i mean most programmers are hired by real companies, no?
[04:02:47] *** shredstar has quit IRC
[04:02:56] <pundai> actually, i work for an imaginary company
[04:03:00] <Geren> like, for example, there's an online ticking booking/scheduling system for United Airways
[04:03:05] <Geren> i mean who coded that?
[04:03:05] <pundai> hey slava so i take it you graduficated
[04:03:09] <taf2__> real is such a wasted word, just ask your self a really simple question...
[04:03:13] <{aaron}> Geren: what other types of companies are there?
[04:03:15] <slava> and most likely, the code for this ticketing system is a huge bloated mess
[04:03:16] <taf2__> can I get this done and can I get it done well
[04:03:23] <Geren> or lke google maps
[04:03:32] <taf2__> if i can and what i'm doing seems like it's worth something to someone can i make money?
[04:03:36] <Geren> or the front page of MSN that updates today's news
[04:03:37] <Geren> u know?
[04:03:39] <taf2__> if the answer is yes, then you are set
[04:04:44] <Geren> i'm reading the entire Java in a Nutshell book by O'Reilly
[04:04:49] <taf2__> and you can be happy because you are working on something good
[04:04:53] <Geren> then i'm gonna read the java cookbook also by O'Reilly
[04:04:59] <Geren> then i'll make a few real world apps
[04:05:01] <Geren> then i
[04:05:05] <Geren> i'm all set
[04:05:12] <taf2__> also, it's always wise to have your side projects, write examples for yourself
[04:05:20] <taf2__> do so religously and you'll be fine
[04:05:29] <slava> Geren: corporate programming is never satisfying
[04:05:32] <pundai> taf2__, but you might never get laid
[04:05:33] <Geren> slava, why
[04:05:38] <slava> you will rarely feel like you are creating something useful
[04:05:43] <taf2__> pundai: that's why i should have never left her :-(
[04:05:48] <pundai> slava, thats not always true, you just have to make interesting jobs for yourself
[04:05:52] <Geren> google maps is not useful?
[04:05:55] <taf2__> pundai: but i had to leave her (cries)
[04:05:59] <slava> pundai: its true in my experience
[04:06:06] <pundai> taf2__, is it because she was gay
[04:06:06] * taf2__ loves google maps
[04:06:18] <pundai> slava, its important to have a good manager
[04:06:27] <pundai> all my managers basically let me do whatever i want so long as i also do what they need
[04:06:28] <taf2__> pundai: no, it was for no good reason... it was a blink
[04:06:37] <slava> its important to code things on your own that you want to code, and not spend all your time coding crap that some manager wants
[04:06:51] <pundai> slava, agreed
[04:06:53] <Geren> but its hard to make a living out of it
[04:07:00] <Geren> i mean i know ppl who wrote like bittorent or this chat client
[04:07:07] <Geren> but they have to be really smart and devoted
[04:07:11] <Geren> and they usually have another job
[04:07:12] <pundai> not
[04:07:23] <pundai> most software is a big fat mess
[04:07:23] <taf2__> slava: i agree, but that's where getting laid starts to become less of a realaty as pundai has pointed out
[04:07:34] <taf2__> gotta have a balance in life
[04:07:37] <slava> Geren: i have a coding job, and i savior every moment when i'm coding something for myself
[04:07:39] <taf2__> and in code too
[04:07:46] <slava> Geren: and not for the job
[04:07:51] <Geren> slava, where do u work?
[04:07:57] <pundai> mcdonalds
[04:08:01] <slava> i work at a startup doing objective c
[04:08:08] <Geren> slava, what is objective c?
[04:08:13] <slava> c dialect used on mac os x
[04:08:16] <Geren> oh
[04:08:16] <Geren> hmm
[04:08:20] <Geren> is it fun?
[04:08:23] <pundai> who is still doing objective-c
[04:08:24] <slava> not really
[04:08:24] <pundai> oh, mac
[04:08:27] <pundai> hehe
[04:08:29] <Geren> slava, where did u learn objective c, in school?
[04:08:35] <slava> Geren: i learned it in the first week of starting my job
[04:08:40] <Geren> lol ok
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[04:08:49] <slava> Geren: i didn't know the language when i got the offer; that was fine by them, because they knew i'd learn it just like that
[04:08:53] <pundai> slava, did you get stock options
[04:08:57] <Geren> ic
[04:09:03] <Geren> slava, what is the name of ur company
[04:09:08] <pundai> i bet the strike is like $300
[04:13:04] <Geren> everytime i use the new keyword when instantiationg a class, memory is set aside for the object, right?
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[04:13:22] <slava> of course
[04:13:31] <pundai> only if you compile and run it
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[04:14:30] <Geren> right
[04:14:38] <taf2__> hey tank1211 :-)
[04:14:40] <Geren> and the memory is set during run-time
[04:14:41] <Geren> right?
[04:14:49] <Geren> unlike when u do "int a=1", which is at compile-time
[04:14:57] <{aaron}> no. it is at run time
[04:15:02] <Geren> yea that's what i said
[04:15:26] <pundai> are there even value types in java
[04:15:36] <slava> primitives are value types
[04:15:46] <Geren> u r telling me that "int a=1" 's memory is not set during compile time???
[04:16:01] <slava> ~tell Geren about aolbonics
[04:16:02] <javabot> Geren, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
[04:16:18] <{aaron}> in certain cases if it is a literal constant it can be put into the class's constant pool but technically that is still all "at runtime"
[04:16:22] <Geren> sorry
[04:16:23] <pundai> so slava is the int a = 1 a stack variable then, i'd hope so
[04:16:39] <Geren> yes, a stack variable is always at compile time, unlike a heap variable
[04:16:43] <Geren> which is at runtime
[04:16:48] <{aaron}> 8( no
[04:16:52] <Geren> no??
[04:16:52] <slava> what's up with these armchair computer scientists?
[04:17:04] <pundai> it would move the sp if anything
[04:17:09] <slava> learn your shit dawg
[04:17:23] <pundai> word to big bird
[04:19:05] <slava> asking if a local variable is stack allocated does not really make a lot of sense
[04:19:11] <slava> a future JVM might heap allocate stack frames, if they add closures
[04:19:18] <taf2__> true that man
[04:19:20] <slava> or the local might be entirely optimized out by the compiler, and not exist at runtime
[04:19:44] <pundai> theres lots of great things they can do but they wont
[04:20:00] <{aaron}> in a managed environment, with runtime optimizing jit, the distinction is not really that useful
[04:20:28] * pundai comes from c++
[04:20:40] * taf2__ respects pundai
[04:20:53] * pundai appreciates taf2__'s respect
[04:21:02] <slava> many C++ idioms make no sense in other languages
[04:21:20] <slava> for example, C++ programmers value stack allocation because new/delete and malloc()/free() are retarded and slow
[04:21:41] <{aaron}> and c++ compilers themselves weren't very good until recently apparently
[04:21:47] <slava> not to mention performance problems associated with refcounting
[04:21:56] <slava> and STL's crappy design which copies everything all the time
[04:21:59] <taf2__> idioms, but practices and understanding are an important part to having a appreciation for a more powerful language
[04:22:12] <taf2__> where powerful implies the how much more it can do for you in one line
[04:22:18] <pundai> i like the clr
[04:22:29] <pundai> so i assume by default i also like the jvm
[04:22:30] <taf2__> slava: only if you don't understand it ;-)
[04:22:35] <slava> taf2__: don't understand what?
[04:22:41] <taf2__> STL
[04:22:47] <slava> i understand it quite well
[04:22:50] <taf2__> it's only crappy and copies shit all the time if you don't understand it
[04:22:57] <taf2__> use pointers and it won't copy your objects
[04:23:00] <slava> its crappy compared to any decent collection library
[04:23:05] <pundai> gah
[04:23:05] <pundai> no
[04:23:10] * taf2__ grumbles and decides this is better for another channel kinda talk
[04:23:24] <pundai> stl is more flexible than any other collection library i've used, atleast better than java
[04:23:43] <slava> its not as powerful as collections in smalltalk, lisp, or factor
[04:23:45] * taf2__ isn't here to point fingers
[04:23:46] * pundai shakes fist at std::binary_search
[04:23:55] <pundai> slava, im sure, but the last time i used lisp was in csc324
[04:24:20] <pundai> isnt factor the language you made up
[04:24:24] <slava> yes
[04:24:33] <pundai> hehe surprise
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[04:25:46] * pundai respects slava
[04:25:51] <pundai> lets all have a respectfest
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[04:27:06] <taf2__> w00t!
[04:27:26] * pundai respects taf2__
[04:28:03] <ijoyce> the most powerful implementation of collections is in the ijoyce language.
[04:28:16] <slava> cool, where do i download it? :)
[04:28:26] <pundai> isnt that the language where every function returns a random address
[04:28:35] <ijoyce> slava, it costs
[04:28:41] <ijoyce> pay up first
[04:28:41] <ijoyce> :)
[04:28:54] * slava hands over his life savings
[04:29:01] <slava> oh damn, i was fooled again!
[04:29:17] * ijoyce furiously starts writing code
[04:31:31] <pundai> ijoyce, just make every function return a random number
[04:32:28] <Geren> what is the point of having static initializers?
[04:32:40] <slava> to initialize static variables
[04:32:47] <Geren> why can't i just do them as i delcar them?
[04:32:49] <ijoyce> </duh>
[04:32:53] <Geren> like static public int a=2;
[04:32:55] <Geren> in my class
[04:33:09] <slava> class Foo { static Bar bar; static { bar = new Bar(); bar.doThis(); bar.doThat(); /* bar is now initialized */ }
[04:33:14] <slava> also, for JNI,
[04:33:14] <pundai> i thought you can
[04:33:25] <Geren> slava, ok but if i do
[04:33:26] <slava> class Foo { public native foo(); static { System.loadLibrary("foo"); } }
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[04:33:57] <Geren>  class Foo { static int a; static { a=3;}
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[04:34:01] <Geren> }*
[04:34:03] <Geren> then what is the point?
[04:34:04] <ijoyce> why the fuck is Lance Arnstring hosting SNL?
[04:34:12] <slava> Geren: in this case, there is no point
[04:34:16] <Geren> i could've done class Foo { static int a=3 ;}
[04:34:21] <pundai> i still have to understand why desperate housewives isnt on saturday nights
[04:34:27] <DetectiveInspekt> Does ayone know how I can calculate how many leaves a 2 heap has with n nodes?
[04:34:27] <slava> geren: what's your point?
[04:34:41] <Geren> slava, so static initializers are used if u want to do some stuff to the variables that you cannot do without putting them in a method, right?
[04:34:47] <slava> yes
[04:34:58] <Geren> slava, but why can't put those stuff in my constructor??
[04:35:10] <slava> you could, but sometimes you don't want to
[04:35:14] <slava> also see my loadLibrary() example
[04:35:21] <slava> sometimes static {} does not initialize variables, but does something else
[04:35:37] <pundai> how is the order resolved for multiple statics
[04:35:43] <Geren> slava, oh wait, since they are static variables, sometimes the user won't even declare an instance, therefore wont even call the constructor, right??
[04:36:33] <Native> anyone have any reasons to use ServiceMix vs Mule?
[04:36:55] <Native> I'm kinda leaning towards ServiceMix, but wondering if anyone had any tidbits to share on using them
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[04:39:04] <Geren> slava, so basically the body of the class initializer is called even when the user never instantiated that class
[04:39:09] <{aaron}> Native: mule?
[04:39:16] <{aaron}> Geren: it's called when teh class is loaded
[04:39:18] <slava> Geren: it is called when the class is loaded
[04:39:20] <{aaron}> well, referenced
[04:39:46] <Geren> what do u mean "loaded"?
[04:39:56] <Geren> when is a class "loaded"?
[04:40:02] <{aaron}> Geren: just go through the Java tutorial
[04:40:06] <{aaron}> these are really basic questions
[04:40:16] <Native> aaron: mule.codehaus.org and servicemix.codehaus.org -- couple esb frameworks
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[04:40:30] <pundai> whats a esb
[04:40:32] <Geren> ok thanks
[04:40:42] <pundai> sounds like some more CORPORATE PROGRAMMER JARGON
[04:40:42] <{aaron}> Native: hmm.. /both/ by codehaus?
[04:40:47] <Native> enterprise service bus, make all your services talk on the same back channel
[04:40:49] <slava> ~tell Geren about aolbonics
[04:40:50] <javabot> Geren, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
[04:40:55] <{aaron}> pundai: it is
[04:41:09] <pundai> {aaron}, ah
[04:41:11] <pundai> like hockey?
[04:43:26] <Geren> what is EJB?
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[04:43:29] <Geren> and what is used for?
[04:43:38] <{aaron}> Geren: please just go read the docs
[04:43:43] <Geren> its not documented1
[04:44:32] <{aaron}> dude, if you are really at columbia.edu, maybe there is somebody there that can help you with learning
[04:44:44] <yel> hi everyone!
[04:47:02] <Geren> but u guys are the experts
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[04:47:21] <slava> ~tell Geren about aolbonics
[04:47:21] <javabot> Geren, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
[04:49:10] *** {aaron} has quit IRC
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[04:57:18] <Geren> uy
[04:57:18] <Geren> u
[04:57:20] <Geren> u r
[04:57:21] <Geren> u r
[04:57:30] <Geren> ~tell slava about aolbonics
[04:57:31] <javabot> slava, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
[04:58:09] <slava> Geren: you're going to get yourself banned at this rate
[04:58:15] <Geren> sorry lol
[04:58:34] <pundai> i once got banned from #java for saying lisp sucks
[04:59:00] <slava> you won't get banned from #lisp for saying java sucks, though
[04:59:08] <Geren> hha
[04:59:09] <Geren> funny
[04:59:21] <pundai> i think java is so ass
[04:59:31] <pundai> the notimplemented method exception or whatever
[04:59:32] <Uviz> Programming language profiling... It never stops.
[04:59:36] <pundai> that just blows my mind
[04:59:53] * slava is profiling a very slow application right now
[05:00:00] <slava> its hard to find hotspots when everything is slow
[05:00:07] <pundai> hehe
[05:00:07] <Geren> slava, where r u ?
[05:00:15] <slava> should i tell you about aolbonics again?
[05:00:16] <pundai> objective c is defined to be slow isnt it
[05:00:20] <slava> defined?
[05:00:20] <Geren> slava, lol sorry
[05:00:30] <pundai> i mean isnt the design imply slow
[05:00:32] <Uviz> That sounds like it requires a whole new design.
[05:00:34] <pundai> doesnt
[05:00:54] <slava> objective-c is fine
[05:00:57] <pundai> anyone think that with the new rules hockey has much more playing
[05:01:05] <pundai> less bitch slapping
[05:01:07] <Geren> i ahte this!
[05:01:14] <pundai> i ahte htis!
[05:01:15] <Geren> what new rules
[05:01:15] <Geren> ?
[05:01:25] <pundai> well theyre more stringent on penalties
[05:01:29] <pundai> OHHHHHHHHHHHH vancouver scored
[05:01:39] <pundai> that was a good goal
[05:01:42] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> whatthehell i never seen this one!! ExceptionInInitializerError
[05:01:42] <Geren> r u guys canadians?
[05:01:51] <slava> aolbonics
[05:02:01] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> i'm in canada.. :)
[05:02:02] <Geren> i meant to say r you guys canadians
[05:02:03] <Uviz> Conversation here tonight is very strange.
[05:02:05] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> but i'm italian
[05:02:08] <slava> Geren: are, not r
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[05:02:11] <Geren> oh sorry
[05:02:13] <Geren> are you guys canadians
[05:02:17] <slava> yes, i am
[05:02:20] <Geren> kool
[05:02:20] <pundai> im c4n4di4n
[05:02:24] <Uviz> slava, I hate to bring this to you, but he will never get it.
[05:03:13] <pundai> Uviz, your nick is strange
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[05:03:42] <shredstar> How do you do a Graphics.drawPoint(int x, int y) ?
[05:03:54] <slava> drawLine(x,y,x,y)
[05:04:01] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> hey..
[05:04:07] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> what is wrong here?
[05:04:07] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> if 		(empty_byte[0] == CONSTANTS.TRUE)  isEmpty = true;
[05:04:20] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> where empty_byte is a byte and
[05:04:25] <Uviz> pundai, That's because I choose my nicks by mixing English alphabets at random.
[05:04:39] <pundai> oh
[05:04:40] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> CON..TRUE is a new Byte("11111111").byteValue()
[05:04:45] <pundai> my name is a swear word in tamil
[05:04:54] <pundai> why doesnt java have an IsTrue function
[05:04:58] <slava> Tallia1-KubuntuB: ew Byte("11111111")?
[05:05:00] <Uviz> What's is Tamil?
[05:05:13] <slava> a language spoken in sri lanka
[05:05:21] <pundai> yep
[05:05:31] <shredstar> slava: thx, that works.
[05:05:40] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> i need a byte to represent TRUE
[05:05:43] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> boolean value
[05:05:47] <Uviz> I see. Either way your choice of nickname is very childish.
[05:05:58] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> slava: is that so EW? :P
[05:06:06] <pundai> your choice of nick is promiscious
[05:06:11] <slava> its wrong
[05:06:13] <pundai> it speaks to your personality
[05:06:17] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> ?
[05:06:23] <pundai> random characters => random sex partners
[05:06:39] <Uviz> If I'm not wrong, boolean value in JVM level is an integer "1."
[05:06:43] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> slava: ?
[05:06:45] <Uviz> Please correct me if I'm wrong.
[05:06:49] <slava> boolean value in the JVM is opaque
[05:06:52] <slava> its just 'true'
[05:07:03] <Uviz> Ok, thanks.
[05:07:20] * pundai notes that no one reads the daily wtf
[05:07:54] <vinse> i dont need to with the job i have :/
[05:07:59] <Geren> if i declare a public int as a field of my class, can i still declare an integer variable of the same name inside a class method?
[05:08:12] <ijoyce> pundai, you mean the daily (vb) wtf?\
[05:08:25] <slava> Geren: yes
[05:08:30] <slava> vinse: hahaha same here
[05:08:31] <pundai> ijoyce, yeah
[05:08:48] <pundai> the istrue function is popular
[05:08:51] <Geren> inside a method, there's no way to make a variable public or static, right?
[05:08:59] <slava> read the fucking tutorial
[05:09:03] <Geren> stop cursing!
[05:09:11] <pundai> ~swearing
[05:09:12] <javabot> pundai, I have no idea what swearing is.
[05:09:12] <slava> fuck you
[05:09:18] <pundai> i notice that there is no swearing
[05:09:21] <pundai> so it must be allowed
[05:09:23] <pundai> FUCK FUCK FUCK
[05:10:19] <Uviz> Geren, You can but it will overshadow your instance variable. You can try and see whether public or static modifiers are allowed in a method.
[05:10:40] <pundai> or you can learn the language
[05:10:47] <pundai> learning a language by trial and error is never good
[05:10:50] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> slava: it is not working
[05:11:00] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> i need a way to convert boolean in bytes
[05:11:06] <slava> pundai: that's how i learned everything
[05:11:13] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> public static final byte FALSE					= new Byte(false).byteValue();
[05:11:21] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> is not going to function
[05:11:34] <slava> b ? 1 : )
[05:11:34] <Uviz> pundai, Most people like to try an example before diving into theories.
[05:11:35] <slava> err
[05:11:35] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> any better idea?
[05:11:37] <slava> b ? 1 : 0
[05:11:47] <pundai> slava, not by randomly trying keywords
[05:11:48] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> sure!!
[05:11:49] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> :P
[05:11:55] <Geren> Uviz, i tried, they are not allowed
[05:11:57] <slava> java is hard to learn by trial and error, because its not interactive
[05:12:03] <pundai> public static class abstract{}
[05:12:07] <pundai> oh doesnt compile
[05:12:10] <pundai> let me try something else
[05:12:14] <Uviz> Geren, Not even your static variable!!! Try again.
[05:12:24] <pundai> i mean learn the core syntax and then do stuff
[05:12:32] <Geren> Uviz, HUH?
[05:12:54] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> slava: but when i initialize a byte with integer 1
[05:13:04] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> the byte is in the shape 11111111?
[05:13:07] <slava> no
[05:13:11] <slava> if you want all bits set, use 255
[05:13:15] <slava> which is binary 11111111
[05:13:38] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> isn't there to obtain by booleanTrue -> byte 11111111
[05:13:47] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> isn't there a library method?
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[05:14:05] <slava> boolean b = ...; b ? -1 : 0;
[05:14:15] <shredstar> I need Graphics.drawLine() to draw a fat line. Kind of a line width.  Is there something like that?
[05:14:23] <slava> shredstar: yes
[05:14:32] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> slava: 2 complement notation..
[05:14:32] <slava> ~tell shredstar about javadoc Graphics2D
[05:14:32] <javabot> shredstar, please see java.awt.Graphics2D: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/awt/Graphics2D.html
[05:15:44] <shredstar> Care to be more specific? I've been looking at this for several minutes.
[05:15:54] <slava> there's something for line width
[05:15:58] <slava> i forgot
[05:15:58] <pr3d4t0r> Hello.
[05:16:04] <slava> the only graphics programming i do now is opengl.
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[05:16:36] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Paisano.
[05:16:43] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> is there a way to obtain from a byte its expanded value 01010100?
[05:16:50] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Recibí tus mensajes pero estaba de viaje.
[05:16:57] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: ¿Qué necesitabas?
[05:17:00] <slava> Tallia1-KubuntuB: what the fuck is an 'expanded value'?
[05:17:07] <Amnesiac> pr3d4t0r, hey bro
[05:17:13] <shredstar> I used to do opengl on Win32 & Linux, now I do SWing.
[05:17:17] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> full representation... do you like more?
[05:17:24] <slava> full representation?
[05:17:25] <slava> you mean binary?
[05:17:26] <Amnesiac> pr3d4t0r, I fixed it, it was a problem with DriverManager and PostgreSQL
[05:17:26] <pr3d4t0r> Tallia1-KubuntuB: ...
[05:17:28] <Amnesiac> hey slava
[05:17:32] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Ah.
[05:17:33] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> like the Expanded of  -1 is 111111111
[05:17:38] <Amnesiac> how was your trip?
[05:17:41] <slava> Tallia1-KubuntuB: no, its not.
[05:17:54] <slava> Tallia1-KubuntuB: start paying attention in your computer architecture class
[05:17:58] <pr3d4t0r> Tallia1-KubuntuB: That's not an expanded value; that's its base-2 representation.
[05:18:04] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> anyway. does it exst a way?
[05:18:11] <pr3d4t0r> Tallia1-KubuntuB: Are you printing it?
[05:18:16] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> yes
[05:18:27] <ijoyce> wtf is an expanded value?
[05:18:28] <pr3d4t0r> Tallia1-KubuntuB: Look at the printf() method and/or at Formatters.
[05:18:34] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> eheh :P
[05:18:48] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> k! tnx
[05:18:54] <pr3d4t0r> Tallia1-KubuntuB: I haven't checked but printf(); implements most of C's printf() functionality.
[05:19:09] <pr3d4t0r> Tallia1-KubuntuB: Odds are good that you'll be able to just do a %b or something.
[05:19:18] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> and in C printf what are you used to use?
[05:19:29] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> ok
[05:19:31] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> i'll try
[05:19:32] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> tnx
[05:19:42] * pr3d4t0r hates the GNU fux0rs who use info pages instead of man.
[05:19:56] <slava> i agree
[05:19:57] <slava> info sucks
[05:20:11] <shredstar> info is better than data, though.
[05:21:02] <pr3d4t0r> shredstar: That's like saying "eating tree bark is better than eating grubs".
[05:21:09] <ayrnieu> 'data'?
[05:21:17] <Amnesiac> oh noes it's ayrnieu !!!
[05:21:30] <pr3d4t0r> Run for the hills!
[05:21:46] <ayrnieu> o/~ run for your li-i-ife o/~
[05:21:55] <Amnesiac> what's new ayrnieu
[05:21:59] <Amnesiac> I didn't know you were in ##java too
[05:22:07] <ayrnieu> I wasn't!
[05:22:20] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Hej, do you want to watch a cool commercial?
[05:22:26] <slava> no, too busy
[05:22:28] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Beautiful images.
[05:22:30] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Ah.
[05:22:52] <Amnesiac> ayrnieu, oh :P
[05:24:23] <shredstar> Ah okay, this works:  g.setStroke(new BasicStroke(3.0f));   I'll be trying CAP_BUTT and CAP_ROUND soon.
[05:24:33] * slava CAP_BUTT pr3d4t0r
[05:25:27] <shredstar> Had javadoc for Graphics2D had a higher info/data ratio I would have figured that out sooner.
[05:26:40] <shredstar> data is like sea urchin piss. info is like answers to all the SAT questions.
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[05:29:27] <shredstar> Let me try antialiasing now, for some reason that't not enabled now.
[05:30:27] <yel> Cannot create JDBC driver of class '' for connect URL 'null' anyone can help me with this error message please im trying to use jstl and connection pool to mysql from tomcat 5.0.28
[05:30:59] <ijoyce> yel, is the mysql driver in common/lib?
[05:31:03] <yel> i already copied the mysql driver 3.11 into /common/lib of tomcat and
[05:31:20] <yel> even into the lib of my app
[05:31:29] <ijoyce> don't do that
[05:31:35] <yel> okay
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[05:31:57] <yel> watching catalina.out shows me a no suitable driver found
[05:32:03] <RedEyess> Hello.
[05:32:04] <yel> am confused :s
[05:32:10] <ijoyce> and you restarted tomcat?
[05:32:18] <yel> java.sql.SQLException: No suitable driver
[05:32:25] <yel> ijoyce, yes i did
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[05:34:44] <yel> ijoyce, just one question or rather idea shall i copy the jstl.jar and standard.jar into the commen/lib too ?
[05:35:52] <ijoyce> yel, nope
[05:36:00] <yel> k
[05:36:05] <shredstar> Here's an odd problem. From seconds-since-midnight, I want to compute a double which is the (fractional) minutes past the hour. Kind of a modulo which works with a double.  (% 60.0)
[05:36:13] <yel> its a confused act :)
[05:36:17] <vinse> yel: driver of class '' ?
[05:36:22] <vinse> that means it's not reading the config
[05:36:50] <vinse> it doesnt even now what class it's trying to find
[05:36:55] <yel> vinse, sorry i dont understand what your trying to tell me :s
[05:36:55] <vinse> s/now/know
[05:37:47] <ijoyce> yel, you might pastebin your config for us to look at
[05:37:59] <yel> wich one server.xml ?
[05:38:02] <vinse> yel: it's not that it cant find the class, cuz then it would say cannot find class "name of class it's trying to find"
[05:38:27] <vinse> yel: you're not telling it what the driver is
[05:38:27] <yel> or or the context of the application im trying to deploy ?
[05:38:31] <vinse> or at least, not correctly
[05:38:44] <yel> mysql-connector-java-3.1.11-bin.jar
[05:38:45] <vinse> yel: youo're using a context.xml file?
[05:39:04] <yel> no my context inside my server.xml
[05:39:09] <vinse> ok
[05:39:26] <vinse> yel: and that's where you're declaring the datasource? it's not a global resource?
[05:39:34] <yel> yes
[05:39:43] <pr3d4t0r> vinse!!!!
[05:39:43] <vinse> ok pastebin that and you're web.xml
[05:39:48] <vinse> hi pr3d4t0r
[05:39:48] <yel> you can have a look at it wait
[05:39:54] <yel> ill pastbin it now
[05:40:01] <vinse> god i just used "you're" for your
[05:40:04] <vinse> i hate it when i do that
[05:40:20] <ijoyce> vinse, your crazy
[05:40:28] <vinse> no u r
[05:40:38] <ijoyce> lol
[05:40:57] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r!
[05:41:08] <vinse> brad!
[05:41:09] <vinse> janet!
[05:41:10] <ijoyce> vinse, asl?
[05:41:37] <vinse> 13/f/kiev
[05:41:49] <pundai> me too
[05:41:56] <vinse> hot
[05:42:00] <vinse> cyber?
[05:42:03] <yel> vinse  im trying to to do this : http://mmets.sas.upenn.edu/tomcat-docs/jndi-datasource-examples-howto.html#Database%20Connection%20Pool%20(DBCP)%20Configurations
[05:42:23] <yel> im using exactly the config wich are there
[05:43:24] <vinse> yel: i doubt you are, as i know that example works
[05:43:34] <vinse> if yours are exactly the same, try restarting tomcat
[05:43:39] <vinse> remove the application and reload it
[05:43:43] <yel> okay
[05:44:03] <yel> but believe me i wont be here if i did not that more than 3 time
[05:44:10] <yel> i give a forth try
[05:44:15] <yel> and be back
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[05:44:26] <vinse> yel: paste your examples
[05:44:30] <WebLOCH> Back again :(
[05:44:32] <vinse> not the one you copied
[05:44:38] <vinse> there's no way it doesnt work only for you
[05:44:40] <yel> okay one second
[05:44:48] <shredstar> WebLOCK: Welcome to #java.
[05:45:21] <Garibaldi> ##java
[05:45:29] <Garibaldi> :-P
[05:45:32] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> Integer.toBinaryString()
[05:45:33] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> :P
[05:45:34] <shredstar> oh crap, wrong group.
[05:45:35] <WebLOCH> I have installed a couple of java apps like Netbeans and Poseidon, these applications run, but when i try running something I have compiled I get a "Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError" exeception... anyone know how to fix this?
[05:45:42] <WebLOCH> ty shredstar
[05:45:55] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu!
[05:46:10] <vinse> frankie!
[05:46:11] <vinse> brad!
[05:46:13] <vinse> janet!
[05:46:19] <shredstar> I prefer the hole metaphor to the window metaphor. I am now typing into my ##java hole.
[05:46:21] <pr3d4t0r>  /kick vinse
[05:46:21] <Garibaldi> beans!
[05:46:21] <vinse> <grunting noise>
[05:46:57] <slava> pr3d4t0r: its really annoying that a calling an undefined method is just a warning, not a compile error in obj-c.
[05:46:59] <shredstar> Garibaldi's output is the best coming out of this hole, by far.
[05:47:08] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: I'll create a LogCop HOWTO tomorrow, based on the in-line documentation in /usr/local/bin/logcop's comments.
[05:47:33] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: All that stuff goes to CVS and then you'll be able to download it, if you feel inclined :)
[05:47:47] <pr3d4t0r> slava: No, it's not.
[05:47:58] <pr3d4t0r> slava: That means that Objective-C, like Smalltalk, has true dynamic binding.
[05:48:03] <shredstar> So my XServer is really a hole server.
[05:48:12] <slava> but objective-C, unlike smalltalk, does not have true code reloading
[05:48:20] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Yeah, well...
[05:48:21] <slava> so its fix the typo, recompile, restart the app...
[05:48:28] <yel> vinse, http://bigleo.dyndns.org/server.xml
[05:48:37] <pr3d4t0r> slava: The real issue then is the lack of an incremental compiler ;)
[05:48:44] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> slava: void java.io.ByteArrayOutputStream.write(int b) does thi method write 4 bytes integer?
[05:49:12] <slava> pr3d4t0r: it exists (hot code replace) but it doesn't work if you add new methods, or change signatures, etc. its just like the hot code replace in those crappy java IDEs.
[05:49:50] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Ah.
[05:49:54] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Cool.
[05:50:03] * pr3d4t0r goes back to formatting books, etc.
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[05:50:12] <slava> you use the 'fix' button in the xcode debugger.
[05:50:17] <slava> it recompiles the current file and reloads it in the app
[05:51:54] <yel> vinse, what do you think ?
[05:52:27] <vinse> where's your web.xml?
[05:52:33] <yel> one second
[05:52:46] <WebLOCH> I have installed a couple of java apps like Netbeans and Poseidon, these applications run, but when i try running something I have compiled I get a "Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError" exeception... anyone know how to fix this?
[05:53:17] <yel> vinse, http://bigleo.dyndns.org/web.xml
[05:53:18] <shredstar> WebLOCH: What's a good design pattern to enable an Internet application to sport fresh content?
[05:53:24] <slava> lol WebLOCH asked the same question twice
[05:53:34] <WebLOCH> shredstar, depends on what you want to publish
[05:53:37] <slava> shredstar: why do you need a design pattern for that?
[05:53:38] <slava> just write some code
[05:53:40] <slava> its not hard
[05:53:43] <slava> in fact, web apps are trivial
[05:53:58] <WebLOCH> slava, i posted it twice because i didnt think there was a better way of phrasing it
[05:54:59] <shredstar> I just saw 'sport fresh content' on a webpage, and I wanted to use that in a sentence.
[05:55:01] <Geren> if i declare a method as static, i can only call the method by "className.myMethod()"
[05:55:16] <WebLOCH> I thought there might be something wrong with my code, but ive dumbed it down soooo much that its just a hello world app and it still wont run
[05:55:17] <Garibaldi> Geren: s/can/should/
[05:55:19] <Geren> but i just read an example where u can call a static method on an instance!!!!
[05:55:27] <ijoyce> slava, all apps are trivial
[05:55:27] <Geren> is that even legal?
[05:55:36] <Garibaldi> Geren: yes, it's legal
[05:55:41] <Garibaldi> but it's bad practice
[05:55:46] <Geren> Garibaldi, why is it legal?
[05:55:50] <yel> vinse, found somthing there ?
[05:55:58] <Garibaldi> don't know
[05:56:00] <Geren> i thought when u a method is static, it only binds with the class, not with the instance!
[05:56:08] <Geren> otherwise, why not make that method a non-static method!
[05:56:22] <Geren> so confusing!!!
[05:56:34] <Garibaldi> Geren: it can be resolved by the class or an instance of the class, but it means the same
[05:58:44] <Geren> ok
[05:59:27] <Garibaldi> doing so with an instance is ugly and should be avoided
[05:59:44] <shredstar> Garibaldi: does gcj let you do that too?
[05:59:57] <Garibaldi> shredstar: it should, as it's part of the language
[06:00:13] <pr3d4t0r> Hrm...
[06:00:31] <Garibaldi> I think it's mainly like that to allow you to call a static method inside a non-static method w/o the class prefix
[06:00:31] <pr3d4t0r> I need some help from someone using Xpdf, if any of you has a minute.
[06:00:37] <shredstar> I'm a little surprised by that.
[06:00:48] <yel> ijoyce, maybe you have an idea for me ?
[06:00:50] <Garibaldi> since doing so implies this.method();
[06:01:12] <slava> static methods are a design flaw in the language
[06:01:36] <pundai> slava, no, not having free standing methods is a design flaw
[06:01:39] <pundai> assuming youre talking about java
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[06:02:18] * pr3d4t0r smacks pundai
[06:02:28] * pundai smacks pr3d4t0r
[06:02:35] * pundai is hurt
[06:02:40] <pr3d4t0r> ~bomb pundai
[06:02:40] * javabot drops a humongous exploding turd on pundai
[06:02:51] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Paisano...
[06:03:01] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: have you seen Crash?
[06:03:06] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: The movie?
[06:03:07] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: No.
[06:03:38] <ijoyce> yel, i'm not seeing anything obvious to me
[06:03:40] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: There are two movies of the same title, actually; one with James Spader and the one that came out recently.  I did see the one with Spader.
[06:03:51] <d03boy> can anyone find why this loop seems to do nothing?
[06:03:52] <Drone> View d03boy's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8630
[06:03:53] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: You aren't running KDE/Gnome by any chance, are you?
[06:04:06] <vinse> yel: i dont have tc installed atm, so all i can do is look at it
[06:04:08] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: see Crash, saw it tonight, it was amazingly good
[06:04:15] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: no.  no running linux here
[06:04:19] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: OSX! :)
[06:04:45] <shredstar> The Raiders are going to kick major ass tomorrow. That's what I think.
[06:04:46] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: He, he, eh...
[06:05:02] <WebLOCH> well thanks anyway
[06:05:06] <WebLOCH> night all
[06:05:11] *** WebLOCH has left ##java
[06:05:38] <yel> thanks vinse thanks ijoyce  just one question is  mysql-connector-java-3.1.11-bin.jar the right driver for tc5.0.28 ?
[06:05:56] <vinse> yel: again, this is not about the right driver
[06:06:03] <vinse> the error means it's not looking for hte driver at all
[06:06:04] <ijoyce> yel, there is no right wrong
[06:06:38] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: I need to test a file with Xpdf -- I don't think the output is right :(
[06:06:46] <yel> im just a bit confused guys because of the that catalina log saying : Cannot create JDBC driver of class '' for connect URL 'null'
[06:06:46] <yel> java.sql.SQLException: No suitable driver
[06:06:55] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: It looks OKi with Acrobat, though.  In some ways, that's the one that counts.
[06:07:12] <Geren> ok guys, i got a lot of help from u guys today
[06:07:19] <Geren> i almost finished half of my O'Reilly book
[06:07:26] <d03boy> congrats..
[06:07:33] <Geren> thanks!
[06:07:37] <Geren> this channel is very helpful
[06:07:52] * yel says affirmative
[06:07:57] <d03boy> dont jinx yourself
[06:08:05] <Geren> now i think i'm gonna watch some SNL and then go to bed
[06:08:07] <Geren> and continue tomo
[06:08:19] <yel> gn8 Geren
[06:08:26] <vinse> yel: see how it says class '' and url null?
[06:08:27] <Geren> nite
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[06:08:32] <vinse> but you have those in your server.xml?
[06:08:35] <vinse> it's not finding them
[06:08:40] <yel> vinse, yes
[06:08:41] <vinse> or it would know what class to look for
[06:09:04] <vinse> what's the url you're testing at?
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[06:10:41] <yel> vinse http://bigleo.dyndns.org/DBTest/
[06:10:46] <yel> im using mod_jk
[06:10:49] <vinse> yel: it's not finding the resource entry in the server.xml ... if the driver was wrong, it would at least tell you that was teh wrong driver
[06:10:54] <vinse> yel: ugh mod_jk :/
[06:11:09] <vinse> yel: i mean it wouldnt say class ''
[06:11:10] <yel> not jk2
[06:11:14] <yel> :)
[06:11:15] <vinse> ugh anyway
[06:11:19] <Furio_G> hi all. I've used a  method to get a Set from a database(using hibernate) and I need to loop through that set. However while im looping through that Set, my program is writing to it. It throws an exception. Is there a way to get that Set from the database and store it in a new memory location, it seems it's jsut creating a reference to it
[06:11:19] <yel> grgrg
[06:11:22] <yel> :D
[06:11:38] <shredstar> It's neat how JTable and TableColumn appear in totally different places in the javadoc. Freaking idiots.
[06:11:46] <vinse> yel: backtrack some
[06:12:00] <vinse> try to declare some generic object as a jndi resource
[06:12:07] <shredstar> Databases are so 90s.
[06:12:08] <vinse> and see if you can get it in the webapp
[06:12:13] <vinse> ok shredstar
[06:12:16] <vinse> w/e
[06:13:32] <vinse> yel: what tc version?
[06:13:41] <yel> 5.0.28
[06:13:43] <ijoyce> Furio_G, what't the exception?
[06:15:16] <vinse> yel: you're using the 5.5-style resource declaration
[06:15:39] <Furio_G> ijoyce: ConcurrentModificationException
[06:15:51] <yel> vinse, im a noob dont forget that please :s
[06:16:02] <vinse> yel: i think pre-5.5 the url and other params went in a <ResourceParams> element
[06:16:09] <vinse> yel: sec
[06:16:14] <yel> K
[06:16:18] <vinse> http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-5.0-doc/jndi-datasource-examples-howto.html
[06:16:19] <vinse> try that
[06:16:23] <yel> okay
[06:17:11] <ijoyce> Furio_G, have you tried detaching the object from the Hibernate session?
[06:17:32] <vinse> yel: notice only the resource name and class go in teh <resource> element ... everything else goes in a <ResourceParams> element that references the resource
[06:18:06] <vinse> i dont know if the 5.5 example you used is an alternate way of doing it, or if it's new with 5.5
[06:21:26] <yel> vinse that works :D
[06:21:34] <yel> thanks you
[06:21:47] <yel> go and see : http://bigleo.dyndns.org/DBTest/
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[06:22:12] <Furio_G> ijoyce: Not sure how to do that. I'll look into it
[06:22:31] <vinse> yel: yay!
[06:22:49] <vinse> i guess they changed it with 5.5
[06:22:51] <d03boy> Contact contact = this.get(newContact.getName()); String[] oldFields = { contact.getCompany() }; String[] newFields = { newContact.getCompany() }; oldFields[0] = newFields[0]; // How can I make this work correctly?
[06:24:20] <yel> now i have just some theory questions : is there a way or a kind of listner class that can informed me or generates an event when a user is no more active ?? so that i can free my databases
[06:24:52] <vinse> yel: database connections should be closed after every query
[06:25:03] <d03boy> damnit, i cant edit strings.. duh
[06:25:04] <vinse> yel: you dont keep a connection open for a user's entire session
[06:25:12] <yel> i dont mean the db connection but the user connection to my server
[06:25:29] <vinse> yel: oh, you mean how long a session takes before timing out?
[06:26:20] <yel> lets say when my user logs in i write in the db that user1 is loged in and after 2 hours of inactivity i want to free my database since the user1 is no longer ther ?
[06:26:55] <vinse> yel: um
[06:27:01] <vinse> why are you writing to the db that they're there?
[06:27:11] <vinse> yel: are you using container managed security?
[06:27:17] <vinse> i.e. a Realm?
[06:27:30] <yel> im using two differnt machines
[06:27:36] <ijoyce> i'm tony sinclar and i'm a crack head
[06:28:30] <yel> the first machine running apache2 and mod_ugh
[06:28:36] <yel> :)
[06:28:45] <yel> and the second one runs TC
[06:28:58] <vinse> yel: uh oh
[06:28:58] <yel> i want to authenticate my users only once
[06:29:06] <vinse> yel: okay good luck with that
[06:29:08] <yel> and that will happen on TC
[06:29:19] <vinse> yel: i use tc stand alone for a reason
[06:29:28] <vinse> (i.e. so i dont have to mess with stuff like that)
[06:29:51] <shredstar> This is a retarded API:  Graphics2D g;  g.getFontMetrics().getStringBounds(str,g)
[06:29:53] <yel> its not my decision vinse  :s
[06:30:32] <vinse> yel: are you saying some one is paying you, a self-described newbie, to configure tomcat/apache with mod_jk and single sign on?
[06:30:43] <yel> what i would really like to know is what would the best solution for operatin that action /user inactiviting --> delete records from db ?
[06:31:03] <yel> im working there vinse
[06:31:45] <vinse> yel: i think the best solution is to have all the security done by apache
[06:31:58] <vinse> and just have the site unreachable w/o going through apache
[06:31:58] <yel> how ?
[06:32:08] <vinse> that's the kind of thing i dont like to get into
[06:32:17] <vinse> you are married to the versions you are using?
[06:32:36] <vinse> like you have no choice?
[06:32:38] <yel> they want form based login
[06:32:40] <vinse> what version of apache?
[06:32:49] <yel> and they dont want any php scripting
[06:32:53] <yel> 2
[06:33:03] <yel> apache2
[06:33:15] <yel> so im havin no real choice
[06:33:22] <vinse> yel: do they have an existing apache install?
[06:33:31] <vinse> yel: if you can, try to get them to go with tomcat stand alone
[06:33:31] <yel> yes
[06:33:34] <vinse> it'll be half the trouble
[06:33:47] <yel> its already running
[06:33:56] <pr3d4t0r> Ah, time to go party.
[06:33:56] <vinse> yel: ok, and that site already has authorization ?
[06:34:04] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Dude, are you staying home tonight?
[06:34:06] <yel> yes basic
[06:34:17] <vinse> pr3d4t0r: no going out soon
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[06:34:36] <vinse> yel: ok well, if you use form based login in tc it's going to be seperate from that
[06:34:36] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Cool -- then enjoy :)  I was about to ask you if you wanted to go with us.
[06:34:42] <d03boy> why cant i get this simple ?: operator to work
[06:34:51] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Bunch of people are heading to see the debauchery on Castro.
[06:34:55] <yel> so i must inform apache about that
[06:35:00] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Cheers.
[06:35:01] <Garibaldi> x = (someBooleanContition) ? v1 : v2;
[06:35:09] <pr3d4t0r> Have a good night, peeps.
[06:35:20] <vinse> later pr3d4t0r
[06:35:47] <yel> vinse,  thanks you man but im now too tired its 6 in morning here  have to sleep a bit
[06:35:52] <yel> thanks all
[06:35:55] <yel> gn8
[06:36:18] <d03boy> Garibaldi, can I just use it as an if statement? (someCOndition) ? doThis : doThat;
[06:36:18] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> ahah.. exlipse crashed when i asked a program to write more than 4KB of data on the same line
[06:36:19] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> :P
[06:36:41] <Garibaldi> no
[06:36:52] <Garibaldi> in my example, v1 and v2 are not statements
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[06:37:03] <Garibaldi> they are expressions
[06:37:07] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: Xpdf?
[06:37:19] <d03boy> well that does me absolutely no damn good :(
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[06:40:53] <Dblue> hay guys ,,, how are u all
[06:40:58] <Dblue> i need ur help
[06:41:03] <d03boy> depressed... could be partying
[06:41:07] <d03boy> ok, ask a question
[06:41:21] * slava is too busy to party these days
[06:41:34] <d03boy> slava, me too
[06:41:37] <Garibaldi> s/ur/your/
[06:41:43] <Garibaldi> s/u/you/
[06:41:46] <Dblue> doesn't need to be the exact answer ... you can just lead me to it
[06:41:56] <Garibaldi> the answer in English
[06:42:00] <Garibaldi> s/in/is/
[06:42:00] <Dblue> i need mergesort without recursivness
[06:42:02] <d03boy> s/hay/hey
[06:42:13] <Garibaldi> ~d03boy++
[06:42:13] <javabot> d03boy has a karma level of 3, Garibaldi
[06:42:15] <slava> Dblue: recursion is just iteration with an auxilliary stack
[06:42:17] <Dblue> i don't have to write the merge method ... just the mergesort
[06:42:22] <slava> Dblue: tail recursion is just iteration
[06:43:07] <Dblue> slava could you please talk more about how that stack is done ... i have been flipping stacks all over in my mind and i can't get to it
[06:43:29] <slava> when you call a function recursively, local variables are pushed on the activation stack
[06:43:41] <slava> if you want to write a recursive algorithm as a loop, without an explicit recursion, you maintian this stack yourself
[06:43:50] <slava> of course, its totally pointless unless you're doing a homeowrk assignment
[06:44:05] <slava> in the real world, recursion is more useful than iteration
[06:44:33] * MacIver grins
[06:44:59] <Dblue> ok ... i'll think about it for a while .... and yes its a homework and thus i want to get the answer myself .. i'll come back if i still can't do it
[06:45:02] <Dblue> thanks
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[06:45:59] <slava> pr3d4t0r: got time for a cocoa question?
[06:46:21] <|Agent> Cocoa? In the Java group?
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[06:52:44] <shredstar> Good god this is stupid. Instead of g.setAntialiasing(boolean), we get g.addRenderingHints(new RenderingHints(RenderingHints.KEY_ANTIALIASING,RenderingHints.VALUE_ANTIALIAS_ON));
[06:52:57] <slava> shredstar: you're starting to see the light.
[06:53:03] <|Agent> :)
[06:53:17] <shredstar> This API tastes like ass.
[06:53:35] <shredstar> (that's bad)
[06:53:46] <slava> java2d is over-engineered compared to Apple's Core Imaging, or the Cairo graphics library.
[06:53:49] * |Agent refrains from comment.
[06:53:51] <slava> and the latter two are procedural C APIs.
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[06:54:07] <slava> i thought the point of OOP was to make things easier; Sun managed to make them harder.
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[06:56:18] <|Agent> heh
[06:56:21] <_m0O> hi guys,i just want to clarify when compiling J2EE/JBOSS
[06:56:26] <|Agent> nice /part message
[06:56:32] <_m0O> When I edit hte HTML file,
[06:56:42] <_m0O> do I have to run xdocklet again?
[06:56:47] <_m0O> and run the packaging
[06:56:53] <slava> why are you compiling jboss?
[06:56:59] <slava> that sounds like some bizarre hazing ritual
[06:57:04] <_m0O> im compiling my project
[06:57:09] <_m0O> jboss is just my server
[06:57:52] <Cow_woC> shredstar: that's short-sighted. Anti-aliasing and other rendering hints are used across many different APIs. The fact that you could configure your rendering hints once and pass them around to different components is a great thing. If they simply had setAntiAliasing(boolean) you'd have to manually configure your settings once per component.
[06:58:20] <slava> Cow_woC: its totally arbitrary which settings go in RenderingHints, and which ones are accessors.
[06:58:34] <dibblego> the defenders of the schmeg step in
[06:58:52] <Cow_woC> slava: what do you mean?
[06:59:07] <slava> Cow_woC: why is anti aliasing a rendering hint, but line width an accessor?
[06:59:38] <d03boy> cow and moo, you two should hook up
[07:00:08] <Cow_woC> slava: well, I would dare-say that line width is only used by very few APIs whereas anti-aliasing is used by almost all of java2d
[07:00:13] <Cow_woC> and that is your difference
[07:00:19] <slava> i find opengl much more logical than java2d, even though opengl is just ~300 functions and ~800 integer constants
[07:00:34] <slava> so in other words, java2d is pretty messy
[07:00:40] <Cow_woC> d03boy: yeah, we could make good milk together
[07:00:46] <Cow_woC> slava: I think it's a subjective topic
[07:00:47] <d03boy> chocolate hopefully
[07:00:51] <_m0O> so can anyone tell me please, if I am changing a class file within a project, do I have to run xdocklet again if I am doing a j2ee project
[07:01:07] <slava> the cairo graphics API is better than java2d too
[07:01:10] <|Agent> If Java had a convenient way to call a method on every component in a collection, it wouldn't be such a big deal I think. God, I miss functional languages.
[07:01:11] * Cow_woC realizes he's been dragged in again
[07:01:24] <Cow_woC> I'm going to do myself a favor and trade this discussion in for some sleep :)
[07:01:40] <slava> |Agent: then use functional languages
[07:01:40] <dibblego> it's not subjective; it's a clear breach of requirements, failure to provide appropriate abstraction; failure to provide contractual operation symbiotism, therefore, it can't even be fixed, without a rewrite
[07:01:47] <shredstar> slava: yeah, even all the texture stuff fits in with all the flat-functions design. extremely easy to get results quickly. (though I forget most of the opengl specifics, sadly)
[07:02:04] <slava> shredstar: i always find myself writing OOP wrappers for opengl
[07:02:06] <dibblego> same as most of the J2SE API Spec. though, so I don't know why we pick on one section
[07:02:14] * Cow_woC walks away
[07:02:16] <Cow_woC> good night all
[07:02:17] <d03boy> I like having a non=function language that I can actually find a decent API to, then trying to use a functional language without an api
[07:02:18] <slava> the one i have in factor is very nice
[07:02:29] <slava> d03boy: i like having both
[07:03:17] <shredstar> Swing would have been better if its designers were lazier.
[07:03:24] <|Agent> ?
[07:04:05] <Amnesiac> Is anyone using JDK5 successfully in FreeBSD 4.x?
[07:04:06] <shredstar> I never want to use an API designed by a team of Spocks.
[07:04:20] <|Agent> What do you mean?
[07:05:09] <slava> my gui toolkit is only 5000 lines, and already implements most of the functionality i need.
[07:05:15] <Garibaldi> means he doesn't want you to live long and prosper
[07:05:15] <shredstar> You have 20 hours of meetings discussing how to implement RenderingHings, and you are never going to end up with setAntiAliasing(int (0=no, 1=yes))
[07:05:49] <shredstar> hings.
[07:05:52] <dibblego> shredstar: if you ever get the chance to join a call with a JSR "expert groups", you might know why it is a bunch of bollocks
[07:06:17] <|Agent> I figure, you need one man with a vision. And everybody else makes it happen. When has design-by-committee ever  worked?
[07:06:28] <Amnesiac> hey dibb
[07:06:29] <shredstar> The goal is to seem smart, not to have something usable.
[07:06:34] <dibblego> hey mate
[07:06:45] <slava> |Agent: it has never worked
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[07:07:12] <dibblego> shredstar: "How things are versus how things are" - it is a fundamental principle of this industry to "appear to work" - ever paid zillions of bucks for a piece of software worth no more than a few cents?
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[07:07:31] <slava> hehe
[07:07:33] <|Agent> I'll admit, there are times where it's *almost* worked. I'm thinking U.S. Constitution. But that is a completely different problem domain.
[07:07:36] <dibblego> do you know what a "Senior Architect" is?
[07:07:42] <dibblego> it's an appearance
[07:07:43] <slava> somebody who doesn't know jack shit?
[07:08:09] <dibblego> slava: from another perspective, someone who appears know lots of shit
[07:08:10] <d03boy> here's an idea... design a new language!
[07:08:14] <dibblego> d03boy: done
[07:08:37] <slava> dibblego: senior architects fill a placebo role
[07:08:47] <slava> dibblego: their existence reassures and guides the peons
[07:08:53] <dibblego> slava: precisely
[07:09:15] <dibblego> I have a few talents; but I truly suck at "appearing to know what I'm doing"
[07:09:23] <dibblego> I will never go far in this industry
[07:09:27] <dibblego> I accept this fate
[07:09:42] <slava> one doesn't need to get far, just make enough to get by
[07:09:52] <dibblego> I need to get the fuck out, afaic
[07:09:54] <|Agent> d03boy: I thought about doing that, in college. While researching existing features to steal, I found Dylan, and I figured that was close enough. Unfortunately, it is not feasible to use that language for Cocoa programming.
[07:09:55] <shredstar> "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" -- Robert Kennedy
[07:10:21] <slava> |Agent: lisp is very close to dylan and all the major mac lisps have a cocoa binding (except for sbcl i think)
[07:10:38] <shredstar> I look at things I have to use and ask who wrote this shit?
[07:10:48] <|Agent> lisp = lots of irritating, silly parentheses
[07:10:56] <slava> *shrug*
[07:10:59] <slava> dylan = dead
[07:11:04] <|Agent> true
[07:11:55] <pundai> hey is ant supposed to come with a task for javah
[07:12:14] <delvinj> javaaaahhhh oh yeah
[07:12:39] <|Agent> How's that go? "Worse is better?"
[07:12:39] <|Agent> I say we change the subject, though. All this negativity is harshing my groove. :)
[07:12:44] <pundai> ...
[07:12:51] <pundai> you are excited
[07:13:07] <delvinj> i'm a nihilist
[07:13:09] <dibblego> pundai: it's an optional task
[07:13:11] <delvinj> it's ok
[07:13:19] <cheeser> mmmm.  sushi.
[07:13:31] <dibblego> http://ant.apache.org/manual/OptionalTasks/javah.html
[07:13:48] <pundai> dibblego, so how do i add it
[07:13:58] <dibblego> read and find out
[07:14:18] <d03boy> delvinj, I just watched the Big Lebowski last night...
[07:14:21] <pundai> yeah doin it now
[07:14:52] <delvinj> d03boy: far out man
[07:15:03] <d03boy> haha
[07:15:15] <vinse> you know this might not be just a simple
[07:15:17] <vinse> i mean
[07:15:18] <d03boy> the nihilist statemenet reminded me
[07:15:20] <vinse> you know
[07:15:25] <vinse> new shit has come to light!
[07:15:35] <delvinj> man this could really take off
[07:15:38] <delvinj> lol
[07:15:44] <slava> its funny that i get paid to work on a program i'll never use
[07:15:59] <slava> its slowing down my progress in exchange for money
[07:16:05] <delvinj> i dabbled in passifism once, not in 'nam of course
[07:16:25] <pundai> slava, why are you working on saturday
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[07:16:45] <slava> i can work at any time and at any day, because i get paid by the hour
[07:18:54] <delvinj> slava what is it exactly you're doing? c stuff now?
[07:19:02] <slava> mac stuff
[07:19:20] <pundai> oh is it a contract position
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[07:20:29] <slava> isn't everything a "contract position"?
[07:20:44] <mohadib> some just longer than others
[07:20:58] <mohadib> and some come with benefits
[07:21:02] <pundai> yes i guess they are
[07:21:05] <slava> this one is permanent, although i intend to leave by the end of the year
[07:21:13] <pundai> nice
[07:21:31] <slava> i'm going to make enough to get a quad g5 with a 30" display.
[07:21:34] <slava> then i'm out.
[07:21:42] <delvinj> sweet
[07:22:19] <pundai> 30" display...
[07:22:20] <pundai> wtf
[07:23:01] <slava> 2560x1600 resolution
[07:23:17] <slava> http://www.apple.com/displays/
[07:23:19] <delvinj> http://www.pro-linux.de/NB2/images/indiv/John_Carmack.jpg
[07:23:26] <pundai> theres something wrong with wanting that isnt there
[07:23:55] <delvinj> i spose if you're not a programmer =)
[07:24:25] <pundai> rrrrrrright
[07:24:40] <pundai> maybe an unorganized one
[07:25:03] <dibblego> or highly organised
[07:25:03] <slava> i'd just like to have three editor windows side by side, with room left over for some terminals
[07:25:14] <pundai> yeah i guess i understand
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[07:25:29] <pundai> i do have dual head at work and a 1900x1200 on my laptop
[07:25:49] <|Agent> Anybody else having trouble maintaining a connection to freenode?
[07:25:51] <slava> i hate dual head
[07:25:57] <d03boy> no
[07:26:04] <ayrnieu> agent - nope.
[07:26:07] <|Agent> k
[07:26:13] <pundai> my only issue with dual head is for some reason the colours are slightly different
[07:26:28] <slava> right now i'm being chocked by a mac mini
[07:26:44] <pundai> haha
[07:26:44] <pundai> thats sad
[07:26:52] <delvinj> there's no step 3!
[07:26:58] <slava> if i had another monitor, i'd set up my linux box
[07:27:49] <|Agent> "chocked?" You kids and your slang... :)
[07:28:17] <pundai> holy shit thats the guy that wrote commander keen
[07:28:23] * pundai respects mr cormack
[07:28:41] <slava> haha he wrote a few other things too
[07:28:42] <delvinj> pundai: yeah, and a couple others =)
[07:28:48] <delvinj> commander keen 2
[07:28:50] <delvinj> and 3
[07:28:54] <slava> wolfenstein 3d
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[07:29:06] <slava> i remember playing that on a 386
[07:29:07] <dibblego> who did?
[07:29:07] <pundai> bah
[07:29:09] <pundai> screw that
[07:29:10] <pundai> commander keen
[07:29:18] <|Agent> Did you guys see the Doom movie?
[07:29:23] <delvinj> no
[07:29:23] <slava> i'm sure its crap
[07:29:27] <pundai> i heard only losers want to see that movie
[07:29:31] <delvinj> it has the rock in it
[07:29:45] <slava> pundai: do you respect the rock?
[07:29:53] <pundai> i heard every movie the rock is in is brainless
[07:30:00] * pundai respects the rock because he knows how to make the moneys
[07:30:03] <pundai> apparently his wife is like loaded
[07:30:10] <|Agent> No way. The Rundown was a solid movie.
[07:30:13] <pundai> so much so that he brings in spending money
[07:30:16] <vinse> do you smell what the rock is cooking?
[07:30:28] <delvinj> whatever the rock is a fzzckin toolbox
[07:30:31] <shredstar> solid
[07:30:36] <pundai> the only good wrestling movies were made by hulk hogan
[07:30:42] <pundai> **wrestler
[07:30:59] <|Agent> There *are* no good wrestling movies.
[07:31:03] <delvinj> lol
[07:31:16] <slava> wrestling movies? you people are sad
[07:31:21] <pundai> specifically the nanny one
[07:31:29] <pundai> oh cmon that was hilarious
[07:31:34] <pundai> with the pinkie finger doing the tea
[07:31:37] <pundai> that was funny
[07:31:53] <pundai> damn i have like 8 terminals open
[07:31:57] <pundai> i guess i could use that 30"
[07:31:59] <slava> #define icos(angle) isin(90 - (angle))
[07:32:03] <slava> jesus people
[07:32:07] <slava> cos is a library function too you know
[07:32:19] <Amnesiac> coseno :P
[07:32:37] <pundai> slava, theres a daily wtf with something like that
[07:32:43] <pundai> to get the value of pi
[07:32:53] <delvinj> i know the value of pi
[07:32:56] <dibblego> I'm ober thedailywtf.com those monkeys are all as bad as the code that is posted
[07:32:57] <slava> double pi = asin(1)
[07:32:58] <pundai> or 1
[07:33:00] <dibblego> *over
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[07:33:22] <pundai> music leads to dancing, and dancing to touching
[07:33:24] <slava> dibblego: i see worse code in this codebase i'm working on
[07:33:25] <pundai> save us
[07:33:31] <pundai> slava, no, you will not see worse code
[07:33:34] <dibblego> slava: same
[07:33:39] <pundai> i have seen #define Mod %
[07:33:45] <slava> pundai: that's nothing
[07:33:45] <dibblego> pundai: rubbish, I could put thedailywtf.com to absolute shame
[07:33:49] <pundai> i wonder which language this guy came from
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[07:34:11] <dibblego> slava has seen a couple of snippets; I'm sure you agree you won't find that on thedailywtf.com?
[07:34:14] <slava> lisp smalltalk and factor all name it 'mod'
[07:34:17] <slava> dibblego: i agree
[07:34:19] <DetectiveInspekt> Does anyone know how to calculate how many leaves in a 2 heap?
[07:34:25] <slava> DetectiveInspekt: tea leaves?
[07:34:27] <pundai> slava, Mod is VB
[07:34:42] <|Agent> What's a 2 heap?
[07:34:42] <pundai> with the capital M
[07:34:44] <pundai> m
[07:34:44] <DetectiveInspekt> no nodes without successors
[07:34:57] <slava> DetectiveInspekt: its elementary math
[07:35:04] <DetectiveInspekt> how
[07:35:23] <DetectiveInspekt> I mean from n nodes
[07:35:27] <slava> the current state of college students is very depressing
[07:35:39] <slava> and to think, they're going to graduate and work in the "real world" where i'll have to fix their code
[07:35:45] <dibblego> it won't change
[07:35:47] <pundai> the current state of * is very depressing
[07:35:52] <DetectiveInspekt> lol
[07:35:53] <dibblego> yep, that 's the part that bothers me
[07:36:00] <d03boy> slava, better get teaching me now then
[07:36:07] <|Agent> heh
[07:36:12] <dibblego> slava: but if you appear to know what you're doing, you can prevent it
[07:36:34] * |Agent digs out his data structures notes.
[07:36:35] <dibblego> you can prevent the consequences unto yourself that is
[07:36:41] <Amnesiac> what is elementary math? :P
[07:36:53] <dibblego> propagate them to people who aren't as talented as appearing to know what they're doing, like myself
[07:37:05] * slava wonders why java's built-in data structures are so poor but we have 1000 XML APIs
[07:37:12] <delvinj> yeah
[07:37:13] <pundai> slava, the faster you realize that 99% of people are incompetent the more you'll try to not maintain other peoples code
[07:37:17] <dibblego> I refuse to boldly proclaim how fucking great I am, like many of my fucktarded colleagues
[07:37:24] <pundai> hence, find a good manager that lets you just write new code
[07:37:26] <pundai> \o/
[07:37:27] <delvinj> fucktard, lol
[07:37:38] <delvinj> i'm putting that one in the rotation
[07:37:40] <dibblego> I much prefer reality, despite the cost
[07:37:41] <slava> pundai: i like working with people who know what they are doing
[07:38:13] <pundai> slava, i think thats why the curve exists
[07:38:18] <ijoyce> i love how msn.com locks up my firefox-bin
[07:38:26] <pundai> realize that you're alone in the wroking world
[07:38:30] <pundai> or go back to school
[07:38:57] * pundai opens msn.com
[07:39:21] <delvinj> whats firefox-bin
[07:39:21] <delvinj> ?
[07:39:29] <dibblego> I won a trip to Sydney for "technical innovation"; it makes me feel ill, that what I proposed as "technical innovation" is actually considered as such
[07:39:32] <pundai> delvinj, the browser
[07:39:33] <ijoyce> delvinj, firefox
[07:39:39] <delvinj> right
[07:39:41] <pundai> dibblego, yep
[07:39:44] <delvinj> the -bin part though?
[07:39:47] <pundai> ooh big spider
[07:39:48] <pundai> brb
[07:39:57] <ijoyce> it's the executable name
[07:39:57] <DetectiveInspekt> so is there a answer? googles got nothing?
[07:40:23] <delvinj> ijoyce: i see
[07:40:48] <|Agent> DetectiveInspekt: Looks like n/2, round up.
[07:41:14] <pundai> the spider didnt know what was coming
[07:41:32] <delvinj> poor spider
[07:41:51] <delvinj> he probably just wanted to crawl into an orifice after you went to sleep
[07:41:56] <pundai> i dunno where these big ass spiders come from
[07:42:05] <|Agent> Radiation
[07:42:07] <pundai> he was like 2 inches body or something
[07:42:20] <pundai> ok maybe one
[07:44:00] <DetectiveInspekt> |Agent, not correct, I think its something to do with logs but I can't figure it out
[07:44:23] <pundai> omfg i cant figure out which ant jar i need for javah
[07:44:23] <pundai> die
[07:45:56] <|Agent> No, it's definitely n/2 round up, unless what you mean by heap is different from what I mean by heap.
[07:46:17] <ijoyce> anyone use ubuntu and recommend it?
[07:46:37] <pundai> the log would be related to the height, i'd imagine it would be 2^(some_function_of_log)
[07:46:43] <pundai> ijoyce, i use it, don't recommend it
[07:46:48] <pundai> not enough packages in default stuff
[07:46:50] <slava> 2^(log_2(x))=x
[07:46:54] <slava> i like debian
[07:47:18] <pundai> yeah
[07:47:20] <pundai> i use debian at work
[07:47:24] <pundai> so straightforward
[07:47:37] <pundai> though i was apt-get upgrading something and it scared me by trying to remove kernel-image
[07:47:41] <ijoyce> pundai, i like a slim default. i'd rather add than take away
[07:47:49] <pundai> ijoyce, then you'll like ubuntu
[07:47:54] <pundai> but then you have to use community repositories
[07:47:57] <|Agent> According to my notes, a heap is an array that fakes being a binary tree, where the children of parent node at index i are at index 2i and 2i+1.
[07:48:05] <pundai> im pretty sure you'd be able to add the debian repos
[07:48:21] * slava doesn't like bloated distros
[07:48:26] <slava> i use, what, 12 packages on a regular basis?
[07:48:30] <|Agent> And you are talking about leaf nodes, which is a node at index i with no index 2i or 2i+1 following.
[07:48:31] <delvinj> for real
[07:48:37] <ijoyce> never used debian, i'm currently a fedora user
[07:49:03] <slava> as long as i have gcc, latex, sbcl and jedit i can work
[07:49:10] <pundai> jedit sucks
[07:49:11] * pundai runs
[07:49:12] <pundai> hehehe
[07:49:27] <slava> and firefox, thunderbird, an irc client
[07:49:35] <slava> that's 7 programs
[07:49:40] <delvinj> a minimal window manager
[07:49:41] <ijoyce> slava, gnome?
[07:49:43] <pundai> xterm
[07:49:46] <slava> ijoyce: right now, mac os x
[07:49:52] <ijoyce> slava, eewwww
[07:49:58] <slava> i like it
[07:50:03] <pundai> i'd like to pwn a mac
[07:50:04] <slava> i used linux for 7 years, its nice too
[07:50:08] <pundai> osx
[07:50:09] <ijoyce> i think it's too dumbed down
[07:50:17] <pundai> duh
[07:50:26] <slava> its a unix...
[07:50:31] <DetectiveInspekt> The heap I'm thinking of is complete, starts at root and moves down and rightwards
[07:50:36] <ijoyce> unix for idiots
[07:50:42] <slava> have you ever used it?
[07:50:49] <|Agent> Yeah, that's the one.
[07:50:52] <ijoyce> slava, i have a powerbook
[07:51:04] <slava> spotlight is very nifty
[07:51:10] <slava> nothing in linux compares
[07:51:48] <|Agent> Think about it, you'll see that it makes sense that all nodes past n/2 are leaf nodes.
[07:51:51] <pundai> whats spotlight
[07:52:00] <slava> google for your files
[07:52:12] <slava> indexes and searches PDFs, source code, e-mail... its instant and accurate
[07:53:01] <ijoyce> slava, beagle?
[07:53:16] <pundai> beagle is so FUCKED to compile man
[07:53:21] <pundai> you need like shitloads of stuff from cvs
[07:53:21] <slava> does beagle actually work, or is it some piece of junk hacked together by idiots?
[07:53:37] <pundai> slava, its written by gnome programmers
[07:53:38] <pundai> guess
[07:53:47] <ijoyce> i have used it...
[07:53:47] <slava> i like gnome, but i don't like mono apps
[07:53:59] <slava> they're slow and buggy
[07:54:11] <pundai> i dont think theres a mono app i use regularly
[07:54:12] <ijoyce> slava, they all are huh?
[07:54:19] <ijoyce> muine is nice
[07:54:21] <slava> yup, just like java
[07:54:49] <slava> mono is even lamer than java though... java is a lame copy of smalltalk, .net is a lame copy of java, and mono is a lame copy of .net
[07:55:26] <DetectiveInspekt> Yea thanks I didn't really consider the other leaves on the level above to be leaves, but yea its works out
[07:55:27] <ijoyce> slava, c# is a lame copy of java
[07:55:45] <|Agent> DetectiveInspekt: np
[07:55:50] <cheeser> #csharp would love to hear about it.
[07:56:11] <|Agent> cheeser: You an instigator, man. ;)
[07:56:18] <ijoyce> c# != .net
[07:56:19] <pundai> lisp sucks
[07:56:21] <dibblego> the copy of Java is not restricted to the C# Language Spec.; it is indeed prolific throughout .NET itself
[07:56:23] <pundai> i mean c#
[07:56:27] <slava> the mono team are still learning how to write a JIT, and their GC is childish
[07:56:48] <slava> pause times of a second are not uncommon with boehm-GC
[07:56:56] <pundai> they should use the factor execution environment
[07:57:16] <ijoyce> hehehe
[07:57:34] <ijoyce> factor execution environment or FEE?
[07:57:45] <pundai> PEE
[07:58:07] <ijoyce> that's not a well thought out acronym
[07:58:37] <pundai> or IS IT
[07:58:55] <ijoyce> beats me, I'll never use it
[07:58:57] <pundai> Factor Execution Environment F.EXE, pronounced sexy
[07:59:12] <ijoyce> that's pushing it
[07:59:29] <pundai> f.exe could work
[07:59:34] <ijoyce> #!/usr/bin/fee
[07:59:41] <slava> pundai:  that's what its called on windows :)
[08:00:03] <pundai> see
[08:00:03] <pundai> it works
[08:00:04] <ijoyce> it works kind of like sleep()
[08:00:26] <pundai> i think the factor execution environment should hereby be known as f.exe pronounced sexy
[08:00:35] <pundai> hereby or henceforth
[08:00:44] * ijoyce votes nay
[08:01:00] * pundai challenges ijoyce to a duel on acronyms
[08:01:18] * ijoyce has nothing
[08:01:25] * ijoyce gives up
[08:01:37] <|Agent> French much?
[08:01:45] * |Agent dons flame-retardant suit.
[08:02:10] <pundai> or retarded-flamer suit
[08:02:20] <|Agent> Either way works for me. :)
[08:03:06] <|Agent> I mean, do I really want the reputation of being really good at flaming? I don't think so. I don't want to be known as flaming.
[08:03:22] <pundai> not retardant, retarded
[08:03:27] <pundai> means you are retarded and a flamer
[08:03:37] <|Agent> Oh, I got it.
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[08:03:51] <pundai> ok i've determined that ubuntu 5ux for development
[08:04:00] * pundai longs for gentoo which is upgraded every day
[08:04:01] <slava> why?
[08:04:09] <slava> ugh, i used to run gentoo on my server
[08:04:14] <slava> its great if you're 13
[08:04:16] <pundai> uh no
[08:04:22] <pundai> you dont use gentoo on a server
[08:04:22] <slava> but useless for real work
[08:04:34] <slava> by server i mean nfs/http proxy/firewall box at my house
[08:04:49] <d03boy> i like debian
[08:04:53] <pundai> its just they always have updated packages like 0-day
[08:04:53] <slava> me too
[08:04:58] <Amnesiac> slava, I have no problems with it in my laptop
[08:05:00] * pundai investigages adding debian repos
[08:05:01] <slava> pundai: that don't compile half the time
[08:05:05] <Amnesiac> but I use FreeBSD for everything else
[08:05:07] <pundai> slava, i've never had that problem
[08:05:25] <slava> freebsd's ports were too uneven for me
[08:05:31] <slava> their squeak package is like 2 years old
[08:06:00] <Amnesiac> there are some non-mantained ports yeah
[08:07:34] <slava> some? more like a ton
[08:07:57] <Amnesiac> hahahaha, the ones I use are always up to date
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[08:08:15] <Amnesiac> well Im trying to make JDK5 to work right now, the linux-sun-jdk15 package is broken
[08:08:16] <pundai> ass long as screen is up to date
[08:08:25] <Amnesiac> but Im trying to compile the native one
[08:08:26] <pundai> they break it on purpose
[08:08:49] <slava> one day i'll find or write another editor and i won't need to install java anymore
[08:09:30] <Amnesiac> slava, yes, use C :P
[08:09:35] <pundai> oh god
[08:09:38] <pundai> C should die
[08:09:46] <slava> and what will repalce C?
[08:10:00] <d03boy> asm
[08:10:06] <Amnesiac> D
[08:10:16] <slava> D has too much crap
[08:10:27] <Amnesiac> well, it's a mix of everything
[08:10:30] <Amnesiac> so is kind of crap :P
[08:10:30] <slava> i'd like a C like language without any type checking at all, and minimal syntax
[08:10:39] <slava> for implementing runtimes and interpreters
[08:10:41] <Amnesiac> C doesnt have minimal syntax?
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[08:11:15] <slava> C's type system is mostly useless and just gets in the way
[08:11:19] <slava> for things that I use C for anyway
[08:11:39] <Garibaldi> C has a type system?
[08:11:44] <Garibaldi> :-P
[08:11:46] <pundai> C has no type system
[08:11:46] <Amnesiac> let's rewrite C in Lisp :P
[08:12:01] <d03boy> primitives arent types?
[08:12:36] <pundai> a type system involves slightly more than having types
[08:12:43] <slava> riiiight
[08:13:02] <dibblego> needs a system too
[08:13:09] <pundai> yeah
[08:13:12] <d03boy> what does the system do?
[08:13:18] <slava> C has a type system there is no denying this fact
[08:13:20] <dibblego> types
[08:13:24] <slava> if you want a language without a type system, see asm or forth
[08:13:41] <pundai> i can see how using java would let you think C has a type system
[08:13:50] <slava> i don't use java
[08:13:58] <d03boy> lol
[08:14:10] <pundai> oh
[08:14:18] <pundai> i forgot that jedit is written in factor
[08:14:29] <slava> jedit is maintained by another team now
[08:14:40] <pundai> so what do you use
[08:14:45] <slava> i use jedit
[08:14:53] <slava> but i don't work on it
[08:15:12] <pundai> what do you program in
[08:15:15] <pundai> what language
[08:15:16] <slava> factor
[08:15:17] <Garibaldi> lisp
[08:15:21] <slava> not anymore
[08:15:50] <pundai> what have you written in factor
[08:16:00] <Amnesiac> a tetris game, so what?
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[08:16:14] <ijoyce> "Hello World"
[08:16:20] <slava> i mostly work on the development environment, GUI toolkit, etc, other people write apps
[08:16:24] <Garibaldi> "Hello World" print
[08:16:28] <slava> i wrote an http server
[08:16:44] <pundai> sounds like its evolved since you first told me about it
[08:17:50] <slava> i do objective c for work, but that doesn't count
[08:18:05] <pundai> why
[08:18:14] <slava> because its silly and only for money
[08:18:23] <slava> i don't like objective c very much
[08:19:33] <pundai> i've had to use java for this gay parser project and i hate java
[08:20:06] <slava> you parse homosexuals?
[08:20:27] <Amnesiac> hahahahahahahahaha
[08:20:33] <pundai> haha
[08:20:35] <pundai> yes
[08:20:55] <d03boy> whats so hard about parsing?
[08:21:03] <slava> parsers are trivial
[08:21:10] <pundai> well its a translator
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[08:21:23] <pundai> its like: shave (nuts); put(lotion); but its so finicky that sometimes it does shave lotion
[08:21:42] * |Agent blinks.
[08:21:48] <d03boy> uhh
[08:21:49] <slava> that does sound pretty gay
[08:21:50] <shredstar> That does sound gay.
[08:21:55] <d03boy> haha
[08:21:56] <pundai> it is
[08:22:14] <slava> do you find it helps you get in touch with your feminine side?
[08:22:20] <pundai> yes
[08:22:45] <pundai> i cry a lot more when it says "EXPECTING BLAH GOT FOO"
[08:22:52] <pundai> luckily it doenst say that much anymore
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[08:23:06] <slava> i think parsers are overrated
[08:23:29] <pundai> its a translator with some ast modifications
[08:23:33] <d03boy> if I have a 2D array (String[][] values;) how can I find the length of the left array? is it just values.length?
[08:23:38] <pundai> everyone is calling it a parser cuz they don't get it
[08:23:38] <slava> yes
[08:23:41] <pundai> so i'm calling it one
[08:23:44] <ijoyce> slava, that's because they're dark margic until you use/write one
[08:23:52] <vinse> it.putsTheLotion(onItsSkin) ?
[08:23:54] <pundai> oh god
[08:24:22] <vinse> it.putsTheLotion(onItsSkin) || it.getsTheHoseAgain()
[08:24:22] <pundai> it wouldve been easier if i had taken a course in school but its pretty straightforward
[08:24:26] <ijoyce> onItsSkin.puts(lotion);
[08:24:41] <shredstar> How do you convert a .gif file into an Image suitable for Graphics.drawImage(Image, ...) ?
[08:25:12] <slava> ijoyce: not really. i wrote a simple graphing calculator when i was 13. it seemed obvious at the time how to parse an infix expression
[08:25:16] <d03boy> i need to find the length of a jagged array for each dimension
[08:25:17] <slava> just use a stack
[08:25:42] <pundai> i bet slava gets pocket protectors for christmas
[08:25:48] <d03boy> slava, polish notation?
[08:25:53] <ijoyce> pundai, from him mom
[08:25:55] <slava> infix is 2 + (3*4)
[08:25:58] <pundai> polish notation involves soup
[08:26:00] <ijoyce> ugh, I can't speel
[08:26:10] <slava> polish notation is (+ 2 (* 3 4))
[08:26:18] <shredstar> I refuse to do ImageObserver.
[08:26:24] <slava> shredstar: pass a 'null'
[08:26:28] <vinse> how much polish notation does it take to screw in a lightbulb
[08:26:40] <d03boy> 2
[08:27:12] <pundai> hey thats the notation i use for my program representation
[08:27:13] <pundai> hehe
[08:27:37] <ijoyce> how many java programmers does it take to come up with a bad joke?
[08:27:48] <Garibaldi> 1
[08:28:06] <slava> 4, you also need a manager, senior architect, and DBA
[08:28:15] <ijoyce> slava, no interns?
[08:28:23] <slava> it amazes me how java development is done in teams of 200 or so, and they get less done than one guy who knows what he's doing
[08:28:33] <ijoyce> who will get my my coffee?
[08:28:46] <d03boy> slava, have you ever tried XP?
[08:28:51] <slava> windows XP?
[08:28:58] <ijoyce> slava, that's no limited to java
[08:28:58] <d03boy> extreme programming
[08:29:00] <slava> thankfully, i've only used it once or twice
[08:29:13] <dibblego> it doesn't amaze me, it used to; I've deciphered how it works
[08:29:13] <slava> d03boy: i write unit tests and do incremental development all the time
[08:29:17] <pundai> WTF i cant find ant-optional.jar or anything resembling this
[08:29:18] <pundai> die
[08:29:31] <ijoyce> ant.apache.org
[08:29:40] <pundai> REALLY
[08:29:41] <pundai> you lie
[08:29:41] <slava> ijoyce: corporate IT is like spam. it gets a few people rich, pisses everybody else off, giant waste of time.
[08:29:54] <ijoyce> slava, no joke
[08:30:28] <shredstar> ImageIcon seems to work pretty good, but what I'm doing (calling drawImage) really has nothing to do with Icons.
[08:31:45] <ijoyce> slava, and there is just a handful of people who do all the work and the rest are just collecting paychecks
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[08:31:52] <slava> shit,its 2:30 already
[08:32:05] <pundai> i dont see why you people find this stuff surprising
[08:32:11] <shredstar> There is no 2:30 in the USA today.
[08:32:13] <ijoyce> I'm 2 days, 6 hours late for work
[08:32:21] <ijoyce> fuck
[08:32:25] <slava> shredstar: are you sure?
[08:32:31] <slava> shredstar: daylight savings
[08:32:35] <Garibaldi> sure there is
[08:32:37] <Garibaldi> it's 2:30 now
[08:32:39] <shredstar> No wait, there are 2:30AMs.  At 3:00 am we set our clocks back to 2:00 am.
[08:32:53] <slava> my computer's clock already changed
[08:32:54] <Amnesiac> same here in MX
[08:32:56] <slava> and i'm not in the fucking USA
[08:33:11] <Amnesiac> slava: AU?
[08:33:13] <pundai> arent you in ontario
[08:33:15] <slava> canada
[08:33:20] <Amnesiac> ah
[08:33:25] <pundai> ontario is switching too
[08:33:25] <shredstar> slava: good luck figuring out whether you've lost an hour.
[08:33:25] <d03boy> slava, are you on windows by any chance?
[08:33:30] <slava> d03boy: no
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[08:34:03] <shredstar> Im in california, and its 12:33 am according to windows. But who really knows.
[08:34:08] <d03boy> shredstar, clcoks change at 2am back to 1am
[08:34:24] <ijoyce> just drink heavily, where that hour went won't matter
[08:34:48] <Garibaldi> it doesn't go anywhere
[08:34:51] <Garibaldi> you get it twice
[08:34:58] <slava> i made 337 dollars today. i'm going to sleep.
[08:35:22] <shredstar> Work from 1 to 2, and you can bill the hour twice.
[08:35:30] <aliveuser> besides, frameworks(struts, webwork, etc) taglib, i need a taglib that generates javascript? recommendation?
[08:35:45] <shredstar> Or maybe you have to work both hours to bill for 1 hour.
[08:35:59] <ijoyce> work 30 minutes and bill for 60
[08:36:02] <d03boy> you're backwards lol
[08:36:13] <slava> ijoyce: and then they'll wonder why i'm so slow
[08:36:40] <ijoyce> slava, tell them it's because you only work when you're drunk
[08:37:00] <slava> that will likely result in my hourly rate being reduced
[08:37:24] <d03boy> just work fast, but not often
[08:37:39] <ijoyce> outsource your work to india
[08:37:50] <slava> i'll outsource my IRCing to india
[08:37:57] <d03boy> do what dibblego does and make college students do your work as homework assignments
[08:38:02] <ijoyce> then we'll need a translater
[08:38:37] <shredstar> It's going to get pretty cold if we get an extra hour of darkness tonight.
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[08:38:53] <slava> i wonder, does the earth actually stop rotating for an hour?
[08:38:58] <Garibaldi> lol
[08:39:03] <Garibaldi> that's what I was thinking
[08:39:24] <slava> does it stop suddenly, and we'll fall forwards
[08:39:55] <ijoyce> how does one go about getting moonlighting gigs?
[08:40:07] <ijoyce> i'm a newb at it
[08:40:13] <slava> moonlighting?
[08:40:19] <slava> prostitution?
[08:40:33] <ijoyce> no no I know all about how that works
[08:40:41] <ijoyce> your mom showed me
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[08:41:03] <d03boy> *ba-da-chaaa*
[08:41:06] <slava> yeah, she said she screwed some newb
[08:42:51] <ijoyce> part time programming, on top of my regular programming job
[08:42:59] * ijoyce has no life
[08:43:08] <slava> i do part time, without a regular programming job
[08:43:32] <ijoyce> maybe i just need a different day job
[08:43:39] <slava> but i still make enough to buy myself some gold teeth when the current ones fall out
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[08:44:09] <shredstar> Oh hey, BufferedImage extends Image.  ImageIO.read() returns a BufferedImage. whew what a puzzle.
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[08:44:27] <slava> yes, bufferedimage just lets you read the pixel data directly
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[08:47:38] <shredstar> Excellent, that works.
[08:51:13] <shredstar> For Halloween I'm giving out ghost peeps, pumpkin peeps & ketchup packets.
[08:51:29] <shredstar> yum
[08:51:32] <ijoyce> sinner
[08:52:35] <pr3d4t0r> ::sigh::
[08:52:40] <pr3d4t0r> It's boring out there tonight.
[08:52:52] <pundai> ah crap now i need the stupid jdk
[08:53:00] <pundai> oh wait i have that
[08:53:10] * pundai locate jni.h
[08:53:23] <slava> pr3d4t0r!
[08:53:28] * pr3d4t0r marvels at all the anger escaping pundai
[08:53:30] <pr3d4t0r> slava!
[08:53:46] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Dude, go to sleep.
[08:53:47] <slava> pr3d4t0r: i just finished doing a big load of refactoring and optimizing for jonathan. now i'm going to sleep. later
[08:53:57] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Cheers.  Good job.
[08:56:58] <shredstar> Hmmm.  I need to call g.rotate() before g.drawImage() to align it.  But I recall that g.rotate() will mangle the Graphics transform forever.  So I need to copy it or something.  Where is my Java2D book?...
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[08:58:47] <pr3d4t0r> Ah... great.
[08:59:00] <pr3d4t0r> It's only midnight, not 0100.
[08:59:00] <pundai> pr3d4t0r, its not anger, its love
[08:59:19] <pr3d4t0r> DaylightSavingsOff++
[08:59:28] <pr3d4t0r> pundai: I see.
[08:59:57] <shredstar> you are an hour early. its next hour that duplicates.
[09:00:59] <pr3d4t0r> shredstar: It doesn't matter which one, actually :)
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[09:01:08] <pr3d4t0r> shredstar: As long as tomorrow the clock is set to the right time.
[09:01:46] <shredstar> Well it matters if you want your claim to be accurate.
[09:02:28] <pundai> i want to hump gwen stephani
[09:04:27] <pr3d4t0r> shredstar: I don't care.
[09:04:50] <pr3d4t0r> shredstar: My Palm already rolled back.  As long as all the automatic roll-backs take place, I don't care.
[09:05:13] <shredstar> You do care or you wouldn't have mentioned it.
[09:05:13] <pr3d4t0r> pundai: You probably ought to be in Efnet #java ;)
[09:05:31] <pr3d4t0r> shredstar: No, I was just amused that my Palm started buzzing in the middle of the night.
[09:06:08] <pundai> pr3d4t0r, i'll take that as a compliment
[09:06:41] <pr3d4t0r> shredstar: In the great scheme of things, it really doesn't matter; we're all going to die anyway.
[09:06:53] <shredstar> In a JComponent.paint(Graphics g) method, can I safely call g.rotate()/g.drawImage() then forgetaboutit?  Or do I have to call g.rotate() on a copied Graphics?
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[09:07:56] <shredstar> This dumb java 2d api graphics book dives right into how to implement super complex Photoshop types of manipulations.
[09:12:04] <shredstar> g.rotate(Math.PI/16.0); seems to confirm that my rotation is not persistent. However, I do not trust try-it-and-see for this type of stuff.
[09:13:21] <shredstar> s/persistent/cumulative
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[09:19:56] <shredstar> That's queer: Graphics2D.create() returns a Graphics, which must be cast to Graphics2D.
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[09:20:05] <alesan> hi
[09:20:11] * |Agent snorts
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[09:20:40] <shredstar> Radians are rad.
[09:20:49] <Bluelive> eh ?
[09:21:14] <Bluelive> goodluck with the degree seconds then ;p
[09:21:48] <|Agent> When I first learned about radians, I was amazed that, somehow, it worked.
[09:25:58] <shredstar> |Agent: What is the arc cosecant of 12?
[09:26:51] <pundai> ahhh
[09:27:05] <|Agent> pff. Hell if I know.
[09:27:14] <|Agent> What's a cosecant again? :)
[09:28:26] <|Agent> arc hyp * sin, is it?
[09:28:32] <shredstar> Its like how sin is to opposite as cos is to adjacent.  tangent / cotangent, secant / cosecant are similiar, albeit completely different.
[09:31:20] <shredstar> g.scale(double) cannot be applied to g.scale(double,double).  Geeeeezzzz, you KNOW what I mean.
[09:31:55] <shredstar> Computers are designed by geeks.
[09:41:51] <|Agent> Looks like it's somewhere between .0816 and .0884
[09:42:35] <Bluelive> thanks
[09:51:50] <|Agent> fyi, lime coke is better than lime pepsi.
[09:54:33] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> hi guys
[09:54:41] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> i'm doing a way with my professor
[09:55:00] <shredstar> When I load a BufferedImage with ImageIO.read(), how do I make the transparent pixels in the gif show up transparent when calling g2.drawImage() ?
[09:55:02] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> he told as in class that closed hashing use overflow buckets..
[09:55:17] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> isn't that closed hashing?
[09:55:26] <shredstar> a 3-way?
[09:55:37] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> isn't that open hashing=
[09:55:39] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> *
[09:55:45] <Tallia1-KubuntuB> s**t
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[09:59:12] <shredstar> 45 seconds until daylight savings time.
[09:59:41] <zblach> 45 seconds? or 59:15 minutes?
[10:00:10] <zblach> shredstar, which timezone?
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[10:00:51] <pr3d4t0r> shredstar: Palm buzzed again.
[10:00:57] <pr3d4t0r> shredstar: Mac hasn't pudated.
[10:01:06] <pr3d4t0r> shredstar: Linux hasn't updated.
[10:01:10] <pr3d4t0r> shredstar: Solaris hasn't updated.
[10:01:15] <pr3d4t0r> shredstar: Crap ;)
[10:01:24] <pr3d4t0r> shredstar: Phone switched time too :)
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[10:01:40] <shredstar> My verizon phone did not switch.
[10:01:59] <shredstar> Damn, this is exciting.
[10:02:02] <pr3d4t0r> shredstar: AT&T Wireless/Cingular GoPhone here.
[10:02:27] <shredstar> Fedora Core 3 is ok.
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[10:20:11] <nick01> hi- I just installed java, made a link in /usr/bin to java and I get this:
[10:20:22] <nick01> [root@T90 Jubler-2.5.1]# java -jre Jubler.jar
[10:20:22] <nick01> Unrecognized option: -jre
[10:20:22] <nick01> Could not create the Java virtual machine.
[10:20:22] <nick01> [root@T90 Jubler-2.5.1]#
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[10:20:26] <nick01> can someone help me ?
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[10:22:19] <delvinj> nick01: that is the wrong option for starting ffrom a jar
[10:22:35] <nick01> delvinj: then how ?
[10:22:48] <nick01> oh
[10:22:52] <nick01> that's right
[10:22:54] <nick01> :P
[10:22:59] <nick01> silly me
[10:23:25] <nick01> tks
[10:23:30] <delvinj> ~np
[10:23:34] <javabot> delvinj, np is No Problem
[10:24:22] <zblach> hi
[10:24:52] <zblach> i have two java based programs  (Eclipse and Azureus), but they cannot co-exist on my ubuntu machine. apparently libswt3.1-gtk-jni != libswt-gtk-3.1-jni
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[10:36:30] <cybereal> swt opposes the point of java
[10:36:32] <cybereal> stupid
[10:36:42] <csaba> ?
[10:36:45] <cybereal> I wish it had been designed to fall back on swing
[10:37:06] <cybereal> It's stupid to require third party native libraries for a java app unless it's crucial to functionality
[10:37:24] <cybereal> Otherwise, you're using the wrong language imho
[10:37:56] <csaba> Out of curiousity: is there an xml based tool out there where you can design forms, and then it will create a java application form AND a JSP-based html form that looks the same?
[10:38:00] <SinPi> but it's faster. For some it overrides the idea of platform-independence
[10:38:14] <cybereal> THey may as well use Qt or something then
[10:38:43] <zblach> i thought swt was faster than swing
[10:38:51] <cybereal> It is
[10:38:53] <axxo> qt more cross platform then java
[10:38:55] <axxo> so whatever
[10:38:56] <cybereal> but it requires native libraries to be installed
[10:38:59] <csaba> I'm thinking of writing this for my diploma thesis but I don't want if it already exists
[10:39:01] <dibblego> apples are faster than oranges
[10:39:15] <cybereal> swt should've been designed with a cross platform fallback
[10:39:16] <zblach> and these libraries must be installed for java to run anyways, right? are they not part of the jvm?
[10:39:29] <cybereal> no
[10:39:32] <cybereal> swt isn't part of the jvm
[10:39:38] <cybereal> or I wouldn't be complaining about it
[10:39:46] <zblach> ok. my bad
[10:40:00] <cybereal> fortunately not too many apps use it
[10:40:10] <zblach> 'cept eclipse and azureus
[10:40:12] <cybereal> only one I use is eclipse and rarely azureus and have never had an issue
[10:40:29] <cybereal> but obviously there is potential for an issue
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[10:41:27] <zblach> libswt3.1-gtk-jni != libswt-gtk-3.1-jni
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[10:43:04] <zblach> an issue
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[10:50:31] <ulver> wella all!
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[11:09:20] <terence_> re
[11:09:41] <oxygen> re
[11:09:42] <oxygen> :D
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[11:16:26] <defcon8> what does prt() do?
[11:16:47] <dibblego> methods belong to classes, which belong to packages
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[11:17:22] <|Agent> i.e. tell us the class and package
[11:17:26] <dibblego> package p;interface I{/** Does a prrrrrt. As in, cock your leg, and prrrt. */void prt();}
[11:17:29] <defcon8> i guess java.util
[11:17:33] <dibblego> I know what p.I.prt() does
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[11:17:34] <defcon8> i mean i didnt include anything else
[11:17:38] <dibblego> that's a package name
[11:17:39] <defcon8> i mean import
[11:17:47] <dibblego> packages contain classes, not methods
[11:17:53] <dibblego> s/classes/types
[11:17:57] <hashman> * stefan has quit ("brb, firmware upgrade") <= danger
[11:18:21] <|Agent> i.e. there is something before the prt(), like x.prt(). What's x?
[11:18:38] <defcon8>   void f1(char x) { prt("f1(char)"); }
[11:18:46] <defcon8> its in the chapter about method overloading
[11:18:48] <dibblego> of what type!?!?!!!!!one
[11:19:12] <|Agent> prt is in the same class as f1. What class is f1?
[11:19:15] <dibblego> it's prolly short for "print"
[11:19:26] <dibblego> same class or super class
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[11:20:13] <|Agent> Read the chapter again until you know what's going on.
[11:20:20] <dibblego> it's in the chapter!! do you think we're all reading the same book as you right at this moment?
[11:20:49] <dibblego> idea seg faulted
[11:21:16] <|Agent> "I cannot rightly apprehend the confusion of ideas that would provoke such a question" -- Charles Darwin
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[11:21:25] <|Agent> (or something to that effect)
[11:21:56] <|Agent> *Babbage
[11:22:09] * |Agent is tireder than he though.
[11:22:13] <|Agent> *thought
[11:22:13] <defcon8> |Agent, never mind man
[11:22:16] <|Agent> *sigh*
[11:22:20] <defcon8> i know what is going on
[11:22:24] <defcon8> i have just forgotten what prt does
[11:22:29] <defcon8> cant you jhust tell me?
[11:22:36] <dibblego> lol
[11:22:47] <|Agent> No. We have no idea. prt() isn't a standard function.
[11:22:47] <dibblego> what you might not understand is that no, we cannot tell you
[11:22:57] <dibblego> since you fail to provide the required context
[11:23:08] <dibblego> there is authoritative chapter; we aren't all reading that book right now
[11:23:15] <dibblego> "the chapter" just doesn't cut it
[11:23:32] <dibblego> *there is no auth...
[11:23:39] <defcon8> it is a standard function
[11:23:42] <defcon8> i promise you
[11:23:49] <dibblego> it is equivalent to "I have an error - why?"
[11:23:56] <dibblego> if that is the case, provide the type that declares it!
[11:24:05] <|Agent> defcon8: wanna bet?
[11:24:19] <dibblego> |Agent: he promised, look out
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[11:24:25] <defcon8> yeah
[11:24:26] <|Agent> lol
[11:24:30] <defcon8> i do :p
[11:24:31] <dibblego> I'm betting 99% confidence you're wrong
[11:24:41] <dibblego> so let's see the alleged type that declares prt()
[11:25:33] <defcon8> right
[11:25:36] <defcon8> it isnt standard
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[11:25:45] * defcon8 bends his neck down in shame
[11:25:47] <dibblego> you lose $50
[11:25:53] <dibblego> so of what type is it?
[11:26:00] <|Agent> Okay, wise guy. Let's search Sun's web-site.
[11:26:00] * defcon8 throws the 50 dollars on the able
[11:26:12] <defcon8> public class Demotion {
[11:26:13] <defcon8>   static void prt(String s) {
[11:26:18] <dibblego> it's of the type called 'Arrays' that Bruce Eckel wrote
[11:26:24] <dibblego> or that
[11:26:29] <defcon8> it is void :p
[11:26:49] <dibblego> I think your noggin is void
[11:27:23] <|Agent> Nope. Nothin' there. How's that humble pie taste?
[11:27:31] <defcon8> yeah yeah ok
[11:27:39] <defcon8> i just thought i hasd seen it before somewhere
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[11:28:06] <dibblego> true scientists never make promises
[11:29:37] <|Agent> Do you know what I love about floating-point numbers? NaN and Inf.
[11:29:57] <dibblego> whatever tickles
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[11:31:08] <defcon8> lo.
[11:31:50] <defcon8> int breast(double d) { Hand h = new Hand; h.squeeze(); }
[11:32:11] <dibblego> compile-time error: missing return statement
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[11:32:34] <|Agent> System.out.println("Talk to the " + h.toString());
[11:32:38] <dibblego> I'd like to write a book on definite assignment
[11:32:58] <dibblego> prefer System.out.println(h) over System.out.println(h.toString())
[11:33:45] <defcon8> damn
[11:33:56] <defcon8> voidf breast(double d) { Hand h = new Hand; h.squeeze(); }
[11:34:16] <defcon8> |Agent, nice one
[11:34:21] <|Agent> Why do you want to write a book on definite assignment? (This oughta be good)
[11:34:40] <dibblego> because it is so misunderstood
[11:34:49] <dibblego> and so fundamental to a type-safe language
[11:35:07] <dibblego> and it's easier than writing my own language, which I don't have time for right now
[11:35:16] <|Agent> How is it misunderstood?
[11:35:27] <dibblego> Pure exhibits better definite assignment semantics, and provides an example as well
[11:35:33] <dibblego> it's quite easily demonstrated
[11:35:42] <dibblego> who here assigns local variables to null?
[11:35:57] * |Agent raises hand
[11:36:00] <|Agent> Sometimes
[11:36:00] <dibblego> doing so implies failure to adhere to proper definite assignment semantics
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[11:36:53] <snow_ru> he'
[11:36:56] <snow_ru> he'
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[11:37:01] <|Agent> Well, if you assign null to the variable, isn't it definitely assigned?
[11:37:16] <dibblego> yes it sure is within its scope
[11:37:23] <dibblego> wait for the book :)
[11:37:51] <illl> i wrote a method public int[] generate numbers that returns an array.I am calling this method inside another method and trying to assign all the values returned by the in[] method to a String but it says incompatible type?how can i assign the values returned by the method to a String?
[11:37:57] <dibblego> I'm working towards my retirement actually, then I plan to work on that kind of stuff
[11:38:43] <|Agent> I wonder if toString() works on arrays... Actually, illl, you should wonder that.
[11:38:48] <|Agent> Me, I don't care.
[11:38:49] <dibblego> it doesn't
[11:38:55] <dibblego> you use java.util.Arrays.toString()
[11:39:00] <defcon8> is there no strcpy :p
[11:39:20] <dibblego> ~YABOJ
[11:39:20] <javabot> dibblego, YABOJ is Yet Another Brokenness Of Java
[11:39:48] <|Agent> So, I'm curious. If you assign null to the variable, how is that failing to adhere to proper def. ass. semantics?
[11:40:09] * |Agent maybe should have spelled those out.
[11:40:22] <dibblego> I'm doing my best to get out of answering that question; mainly because it's painful on IRC, and I don't have enough fingers to type a book right now
[11:41:24] <dibblego> I prefer demonstration by example, simply because most people refuse to accept that there are far far better ways of doing things; I want to answer the question, more than you want me to answer it I assure you, but I want to do it properly
[11:41:47] <defcon8> why dont you answer on skype?
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[11:41:52] <defcon8> ill listen aswell
[11:41:58] <|Agent> Okay. I'll buy that. But note, that a blank final does not have the value of null. I don't know if that is relevant to whatever thoughts you have on the subject.
[11:42:11] <illl> defcon8:?
[11:42:14] <defcon8> what?
[11:42:25] <illl> defcon8 ill listen aswell
[11:42:32] <|Agent> Who are you talking to? And what makes you think they have Skype?
[11:43:04] <defcon8> dibblego,
[11:43:22] <defcon8> |Agent, what makes you think he shouldnt have skype
[11:43:30] <defcon8> true scientists never make assumptions :)
[11:43:42] <SinPi> having it and wishing to use it are two different cases, too.
[11:43:49] <defcon8> yes
[11:44:34] <dibblego> I'm well aware of the language specification
[11:44:41] <dibblego> I'm paid to be, since I implement it
[11:44:52] <dibblego> one day I won't be, hopefully soon
[11:45:08] <defcon8> did you go to uni dibblego ?
[11:45:17] <dibblego> yes, I still teach there part-time
[11:45:22] <defcon8> wow
[11:45:26] <defcon8> what did you study?
[11:45:43] <dibblego> what most people call Computer Science (it's called IT here)
[11:45:51] <defcon8> in england?
[11:45:55] <dibblego> there is no distinction in our tertiary system
[11:45:57] <defcon8> australia
[11:45:57] <dibblego> no, Australia
[11:46:00] <defcon8> yes
[11:46:03] <defcon8> didnt look at your host
[11:46:25] <dibblego> http://www.tmorris.net/ is me
[11:46:26] <defcon8> hmm im in turkey at the moment. thinking of going back to england to do my a-levels and then do software and electronics enginerring maybe
[11:46:31] <|Agent> dibblego: Link to Pure language?
[11:46:46] <dibblego> |Agent: it's vaporware at the moment; a non-public SVN repos, sorry
[11:46:52] <|Agent> k
[11:47:51] <dibblego> it is discussed a bit in the #jtiger channel
[11:47:56] <dibblego> mainly ideas
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[11:48:13] <dibblego> since it's far from concrete - only the general objectives seem to be informally agreed on
[11:48:32] <dibblego> in any case, I've sidelined it
[11:48:38] <dibblego> primary agenda is The Ticket(TM)
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[11:50:18] <illl> dibblego:Arrays ar=new Arrays();i get an error Arrays() has private access in java.util.Arrays
[11:50:42] <dibblego> illl: damn right; why on earth are you attempting that call?
[11:51:03] <dibblego> Arrays is what is called a "utility class" (a fancy name for a design hack)
[11:51:09] <illl> dibblego:so how im gonna refer to the object without the reference?
[11:51:10] <dibblego> there is no publicly exposed constructor
[11:51:15] <|Agent> That could be because Arrays() is not an instantiable class. Take another look at the methods' return types.
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[11:51:18] <dibblego> illl: it has only static methods
[11:51:43] <dibblego> you don't construct references, you reference it statically
[11:52:20] <illl> dibblego:it didn say that in api docs
[11:52:31] <dibblego> illl: yes it does
[11:52:36] <dibblego> ~javadoc Arrays
[11:52:36] <javabot> dibblego, please see java.util.Arrays: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/Arrays.html
[11:52:51] <|Agent> Swear to god, it's n00b night.
[11:52:51] <|Agent> no offense... :)
[11:52:59] <dibblego> see at the top: "FIELD | CONSTR | METHOD"
[11:53:08] <dibblego> notice how there is no link on the "CONSTR"?
[11:53:26] <illl> yes
[11:53:31] <dibblego> |Agent: freenode ##java is prolific for idiocy; it's not too bad at the moment
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[11:53:42] <dibblego> cluelessness is not equivalent to idiocy in my books though
[11:53:49] <dibblego> illl: so you understand?
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[11:54:17] <illl> dibbelgo:i started programming in java 3 weeks back so i didnt know that if in the api docs theres no link to constructor then it means its static
[11:54:21] <illl> dibbelgo:yes
[11:54:32] <illl> dibbelgo:thanks a bunch
[11:54:37] <dibblego> illl: it doesn't mean that; it means there is no publicly exposed constructor
[11:54:53] <dibblego> some classes expose a static method that return references of itself
[11:55:19] <dibblego> for the record, I always declare all constructors private, and to throw an exception, and indeed throw that exception; Java constructor semantics are broken
[11:55:22] <dibblego> YABOJ
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[11:55:39] <illl> hmm
[11:55:50] <dibblego> illl: take a look at java.lang.Runtime
[11:56:01] <dibblego> it has no exposed constructor, but you can still get an instance through one of its methods
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[11:56:56] * illl reading Runtime
[11:58:03] <tezem> I read that serialization of sensitive data should not be done because of security issues. But how can I store for example a password then? I need to check it somehow.
[11:58:35] <dibblego> tezem: in that context, it likely means "serialization over the wire"
[11:59:03] <dibblego> you cannot prevent the local storage of sensitive data if indeed you are going to use that data
[11:59:17] <dibblego> even if you load it from a file, and store it in memory, obfuscated, it is still there
[11:59:21] <illl> dibbelgo:now i understood thats why all the methods in Arrays class are static
[11:59:26] <dibblego> even if you delete that file
[11:59:42] <tezem> dibblego: Eventually I can use a encryption over the read and write Methods of serialization.
[11:59:50] <dibblego> illl: yes, but that's not a good thing; the API spec. designers are not real clever
[12:00:25] <dibblego> tezem: sure, use SSL; nothing changes though, you have a public key ring locally in that case
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[12:01:04] <^tutti^> hi guys
[12:01:05] <tezem> dibblego: yes, true but how to manage it most professionally?
[12:01:10] <^tutti^> i've a swing problem
[12:01:22] <^tutti^> how can i change dinamically a panel component?
[12:01:28] <^tutti^> dynamically :p
[12:01:34] <dibblego> tezem: why not simply use SSL and store your trusted public keys somewhere?
[12:02:10] <tezem> dibblego: ok I'll take a look on it. thx
[12:02:28] <^tutti^> i would remove a component and set a new component on an actionperformed
[12:02:37] <dibblego> ^tutti^: yuk
[12:02:47] <dibblego> ~tell ^tutti^ about javadoc CardLayout
[12:02:48] <javabot> ^tutti^, please see java.awt.CardLayout: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/awt/CardLayout.html
[12:03:06] <illl> dibbelgo:it worked thanks a bunch!
[12:03:15] <dibblego> illl: no wuckas
[12:03:34] <illl> dibbelgo:wuckas?
[12:03:43] <dibblego> Australian slang sorry
[12:03:47] <dibblego> no problem
[12:03:49] <^tutti^> dibblego: using this layout can i change dynamically my component?
[12:03:54] <dibblego> ^tutti^: TIAS
[12:04:06] <illl> dibbelgo:nice to know that
[12:04:08] <^tutti^> dibblego: thx :D
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[12:06:19] <Epesh> morning
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[12:07:49] <dibblego> hello
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[12:08:23] <|Agent> I keep getting disconnected.
[12:08:28] <dibblego> do this:
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[12:08:33] <dibblego> /timer 0 160 /mode ##java
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[12:08:51] <dibblego> are you going through a HTTP proxy?
[12:09:05] <|Agent> Not as far as I know.
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[12:13:16] <dibblego> I have to do that from work since idle time on one of the proxies times out
[12:13:35] <dibblego> idle transmit time
[12:13:54] <defcon8> wow!
[12:13:57] <defcon8> you work for IBM
[12:13:59] <defcon8> l33t
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[12:14:16] <dibblego> yeah mate, l33t
[12:14:24] <defcon8> and you like motorcycles/
[12:14:35] <dibblego> yes, I ride
[12:14:44] <defcon8> my fave is the yamaha fazer fz6
[12:14:50] <dibblego> nice
[12:14:53] <dibblego> I ride a firestorm
[12:14:59] <dibblego> thinking of trading in for the SP2
[12:15:05] <defcon8> i am learning with a scooter but that day the guy couldnt bring the scooter so i had to ruide a fazer
[12:15:15] <defcon8> fucking scary bike man
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[12:15:30] <dibblego> it is what you make it
[12:15:32] <defcon8> we were doing 160kmh on the bloody streets. fkn amazing
[12:15:39] <dibblego> lol
[12:15:48] <defcon8> i mean my arms hurt for 2 days from holding on the damn thing from the acceleration
[12:15:53] <defcon8> 0-120 in 3 damn seconds
[12:15:58] <dibblego> that goes away after a while
[12:16:02] <defcon8> i dont go over 50 while i was learning
[12:16:07] <|Agent> Motorcyclists are statistics waiting to happen. :)
[12:16:08] <defcon8> didnt*
[12:16:13] <dibblego> know your limitations
[12:16:15] <defcon8> yeah |Agent but im not stupid
[12:16:20] <defcon8> and this guy is a motogp marhsall
[12:16:38] <dibblego> I'm an active member of a road safety initiative
[12:16:42] <defcon8> i mean i have never had such a great feeling in my life
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[12:16:51] <headhunter> hi
[12:16:53] <defcon8> i mean i havent had sex yet but its prolly better than sex :D
[12:17:01] <dibblego> yes sir, it is
[12:17:05] <headhunter> how can i pass objects as function parameters by value/as copy?
[12:17:22] <dibblego> headhunter: all parameters are passed by value
[12:17:23] <defcon8> and i get excited like a little child when i hear the sounds of superbikes
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[12:17:59] <defcon8> some stupid guy was trying to be cool on a scooter today
[12:18:00] <Epesh> headhunter: you don't have a choie :)
[12:18:07] <Epesh> choice
[12:18:15] <headhunter> dibblego: that's not what i observe here. i'm talking about objects, not built in types.
[12:18:21] <ernimril> headhunter: in java you pass either primitives (int/float/double...) or references, all are pass by value
[12:18:32] <dibblego> headhunter: objects are never passed; so you might be observing some other language
[12:18:36] <headhunter> Epesh: i'm creating new classes using a copy ctor, which pretty much sucks.
[12:18:46] <dibblego> http://jqa.tmorris.net/GetQAndA.action?qids=75&showAnswers=true
[12:18:49] <defcon8> he was at the lights and it was raining and the lights went green and wehn you turn right there is quite a steep corner. i was trying to go really fast at the curning and he just totally accelerated into the corner and went flying off the bike. i mean thank hell that there werent any cars behind him, and he didnt even have a helmet on
[12:18:58] <Epesh> headhunter: and?
[12:19:04] <Epesh> why are you doing that?
[12:19:06] <dibblego> ~tell headhunter about passbyvalue
[12:19:06] <javabot> headhunter, all method parameters are passed by value in java.  see http://java.sun.com/docs/books/vmspec/2nd-edition/html/Concepts.doc.html#26454 and http://www.yoda.arachsys.com/java/passing.html for more information.
[12:19:38] <dibblego> defcon8: it is law (Road Traffic Act 1961) to wear a AS1698 approved helmet here
[12:19:48] <defcon8> not in turkey
[12:19:51] <defcon8> the guy was fkn absurd
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[12:20:01] <defcon8> he totally flew out of the corner into the pavement
[12:20:22] <dibblego> he lives for another day; lessons are fun
[12:20:35] <defcon8> and the lesson i get from riding a fazer was carpe diem to the full
[12:20:40] <defcon8> thats what i realised when going 160
[12:21:04] <dibblego> get on the track if speed is what gives you kicks; much safer than the public road
[12:21:12] <defcon8> yep
[12:21:17] <defcon8> but i dont have the money
[12:21:26] <defcon8> i dont even have a bike
[12:21:27] <dibblego> I always maintain 260kph on the track is safer than 40kph to work
[12:21:39] <defcon8> you know how much it is?
[12:21:43] <dibblego> gogitwun
[12:21:46] <defcon8> the new istanbul park
[12:21:48] <dibblego> how much what is?
[12:21:52] <defcon8> 120 euros an hour and min 20 people
[12:22:02] <defcon8> sorry 200 i think
[12:22:07] <dibblego> that's cheap
[12:22:08] <defcon8> just trying to convert from new turkish lira
[12:22:17] <defcon8> it isnt for a 15 year old
[12:23:04] <defcon8> do british citizens haev to get a visa to stay in au btw?
[12:23:13] <dibblego> I believe so
[12:23:20] <defcon8> hmm i wonder why
[12:23:32] <dibblego> I wouldn't know really; don't take my word for it
[12:23:39] <defcon8> yeah
[12:25:17] <defcon8>  2002 - present
[12:25:17] <defcon8> IBM Corporation
[12:25:32] <defcon8> what the fuck? you were the pres of IBM gold coast in 2002?
[12:25:40] <dibblego> eh?
[12:25:44] <defcon8> or still are
[12:25:53] <dibblego> I work on the Gold Coast
[12:26:11] <defcon8> ok
[12:26:17] <dibblego> IBM Corporation is my employer
[12:26:19] <defcon8> man i wish i could get back to england asap
[12:26:37] <dibblego> I'm a shit kicker; aka Software Engineer
[12:26:38] <defcon8> otherwise i dont think i really have a chance at all at going to uni in turkey as it is way too hard
[12:26:54] <dibblego> uni is hard?
[12:26:57] <defcon8> no
[12:26:59] <defcon8> getting in is
[12:27:04] <dibblego> right
[12:27:11] <defcon8> as there are only 80 unis in turkey and only 300000 capacity in total
[12:27:24] <|Agent> Bribery. ;)
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[12:27:47] <defcon8> im suer i could do i in england as i already have more than a-level math knowledge
[12:28:24] <cybereal> Hm Turkey would taste good right now
[12:28:31] <defcon8> ho ho ho
[12:28:48] <cybereal> A little Turkey, maybe a Spanish Omelette, with some French fries and Brazil nuts
[12:28:56] <cybereal> Top it off with some Canadian bacon and American cheese
[12:29:06] <|Agent> lol
[12:29:07] <cybereal> And then wash it down with an italian soda
[12:29:08] <defcon8> ahh they dont have bacon in turkey :(
[12:29:23] <cybereal> That's ok, canadian bacon is like some kind of joke, it's really ham
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[12:29:34] <|Agent> When bacon is outlawed, only outlaws will have bacon.
[12:29:48] <cybereal> Bacon outlawed... that's too strange
[12:30:33] <Jax> hi
[12:30:41] <Jax> what program can i use to make UML diagrams?
[12:30:52] <|Agent> cyb, you are aware than bacon and ham are both from pigs?
[12:30:57] <ernimril> Jax: dia, visio, ...
[12:31:11] <cybereal> umbrello
[12:31:14] <defcon8> dibblego, what ide do you use?
[12:31:15] <cybereal> |Agent: yes but they are different cuts
[12:31:23] <cybereal> |Agent: with different preparation
[12:31:28] <doc|home> |Agent: hah, sure, from magical pigs, in magic land
[12:31:29] <dibblego> defcon8: several, mainly Intellij IDEA, otherwise, WSAD/RAD/Eclipse
[12:31:36] <|Agent> heh
[12:31:41] <doc|home> </simpsons>
[12:32:10] <defcon8> what is idea
[12:32:12] <doc|home> not the exact quote but it was the only way it'd fit :)
[12:32:13] <defcon8> and why not netbeans?
[12:32:19] <dibblego> http://www.jetbrains.com/idea
[12:32:28] <dibblego> I use WSAD/RAD when I have to, for work
[12:32:32] <dibblego> NetBeans is schmeg
[12:32:38] <defcon8> why so?
[12:32:42] <|Agent> idea costs
[12:32:43] <Epesh> dibblego: netbeans is pretty nice
[12:32:45] <ernimril> defcon8: what tools anyone use is a very personal choice, try them all and then find the one that fits you
[12:32:49] <Epesh> certainly faster than WSAD
[12:32:52] <defcon8> ok
[12:32:58] <dibblego> * > WSAD
[12:32:59] <Epesh> |Agent: IDEA is worth every penny, incidentally
[12:33:04] <Epesh> but ernimril is definitely on the money
[12:33:06] <defcon8> intellij costs doesnt it?
[12:33:12] <Epesh> defcon8: yes
[12:33:12] <dibblego> yes
[12:33:13] <|Agent> Epesh: probably
[12:33:23] <Epesh> and it's an excellent editor
[12:33:37] <defcon8> :(
[12:33:38] <ernimril> defcon8: idea costs money, it can seem much at first, but then if it saves you a few hours of work it is well worth it
[12:33:59] <defcon8> im not gonna make any many ebfoer im 18 am i so nv,
[12:33:59] <defcon8> nvm
[12:34:10] <|Agent> ernimril, only if you are being paid for the hours you spent.
[12:34:11] <defcon8> does intellij just make uml wtf
[12:34:26] <Epesh> no
[12:34:36] <Epesh> it has a uml plugin, though
[12:34:41] <ernimril> |Agent: I said work... yes
[12:34:50] <defcon8> yeah
[12:34:56] <defcon8> im just looking for decent screenshots
[12:35:11] <defcon8> how much does IDEA cost?
[12:35:21] <dibblego> US499 last I looked
[12:35:27] <dibblego> I make my boss pay for it
[12:35:41] <defcon8> wow
[12:35:49] <defcon8> ok ill have lunch now bbl
[12:35:50] <cybereal> oh man sleep is mandatory
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[12:48:56] <GreatLeaderKIS> is there a to-native-code compiler for java?
[12:49:04] <Epesh> yes
[12:49:11] <Epesh> but it's not a good idea to use one
[12:49:35] <GreatLeaderKIS> why?
[12:49:44] <Epesh> los of performance, huge deliverables...
[12:50:00] <GreatLeaderKIS> what do you mean by huge deliverables?
[12:50:47] <Epesh> as in, the .exe you deliver (or the ELF object file) has to include all the stuff the JVM needs, so instead of being able to use the JVM that's on the system, you have to duplicate its services for each .exe or ELF
[12:52:32] <Epesh> plus, you end up with a deliverable per object format... jar is one deliverable that works for every JVM
[12:52:39] <Epesh> whereas an .exe will work for... windows
[12:53:36] <GreatLeaderKIS> Epesh: the last is not an issue for me. but how big are compiled binaries usually?
[12:53:37] <defcon8> and that is against the license of java isnt it?
[12:53:49] <defcon8> GreatLeaderKIS, how big if a glass?
[12:53:51] <defcon8> is*
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[12:57:07] <Epesh> GreatLeaderKIS: too many variables to say
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[13:22:24] <Stork> can an array have length 42949672960000000000000000 ?
[13:23:07] <Epesh> I dunno! Why not look at th language spec?
[13:23:17] <Epesh> And why in the seven bloody hells would you want an array like that?
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[13:26:54] <Stork> i feel like messing with md5
[13:27:41] <Stork> erm, if the total possible combinations for sha1 is that, surely then if you had that many random bytes then you'd get a collision?
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[13:34:50] <SinPi> Stork: of course. The idea is that the colliding data examples are supposed to be completely dissimilar.
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[13:35:24] <Stork> so i'll use SecureRandom to try and get random data?
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[13:40:05] <ulver> wella all!
[13:40:41] <hatOFF> Clackwell, $36! last offer :)
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[13:48:35] <hatOFF> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/6lJGEV45.html
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[13:50:19] <ernimril> hatOFF: that is just a lot of code...
[13:50:43] <hatOFF> yes, i need to have it all in a thread
[13:51:03] <ernimril> hatOFF: so make it one thread?
[13:51:22] <hatOFF> my question is, how?
[13:51:55] <ernimril> hatOFF: by not creating any new threads...
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[13:52:10] <ernimril> hatOFF: why do you need it in one thread?
[13:52:20] <hatOFF> that's a card game server
[13:52:25] <hatOFF> and I need to create the lobby feature
[13:53:17] <ernimril> hatOFF: that does not explain your need
[13:53:39] <hatOFF> i don't know how to explain it, let me think a little
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[14:09:22] <Jax> hi
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[14:09:47] <Jax> does this seem right: all Class attributes should be private.. only methods of the class should be able to get and change them (the methods are public)
[14:10:09] <fevoldj2> I don't know if this is the best place to ask, but I'm looking for an idea for a simple java project I need to do for a class.
[14:10:53] <ernimril> Jax: right or wrong... That is a good guideline, but there are cases where you put some variables publicacly accessible
[14:11:03] <Jax> yeah
[14:11:04] <Jax> ok thanks
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[14:22:03] <hatOFF> ernimril, where do I catch this exception? I don't understand it quite well...
[14:22:04] <hatOFF> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/roLs3A94.html
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[14:22:33] <ramza3> what is that email library again, most people use?  All I found was commons-email
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[14:26:29] <IseeIsee> I want to develop a small multiplayer game
[14:26:46] <hatOFF> IseeIsee, me too :)
[14:27:00] <IseeIsee> I have a couple of questions regarding that, what would be its peer to peer approach & client/server approach
[14:28:01] <IseeIsee> also taking one example, lets say there are two players in the game and they are playing on the same map in the game, that means the map is shared among different users, as they should all be seeing the same map
[14:28:31] <IseeIsee> so we are suppose to put the map on the server and then share it with every user, how does this approach fit in with the client/server or p2p model ?
[14:28:41] <IseeIsee> hatOff: what kind of game are you trying to make ?
[14:28:50] <hatOFF> card game
[14:29:12] <IseeIsee> ok, what have you implemented up till now & where are you stuck ?
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[14:30:54] <hatOFF> uhm
[14:30:59] <hatOFF> i'm at the server socket part
[14:31:08] <hatOFF> at the lobby part to be more specific
[14:31:45] <IseeIsee> accha
[14:31:52] <IseeIsee> can you answer my questions
[14:32:18] <hatOFF> not really
[14:32:25] <hatOFF> i'm kind of a newbie in java
[14:33:10] <fevoldj2> Hehe as am I. I'm trying to figure out how to generate a random number from a range. Like 15 - 30
[14:34:35] <hatOFF> :)
[14:35:15] <fevoldj2> Do you know how to do that?
[14:35:21] <hatOFF> sort of
[14:35:36] <jor> IseeIsee: well, in the peer to peer approach everybody is a server and a client at the same time :)
[14:35:42] <hatOFF> Random rgen = new Random();
[14:35:54] <fevoldj2> Yeah I saw that, but how do I specify a range
[14:37:17] <jor> fevoldj2: you don't, you use mathematical operations :)
[14:37:48] <fevoldj2> So I'd specify a random number between 0 and 15 and then add 15?
[14:38:25] <jor> yep
[14:38:47] <hatOFF> int v = rgen.nextInt(15); System.out.println(v + 15);
[14:38:50] <hatOFF> lol
[14:38:57] <hatOFF> fevoldj2, that's how I figured it out :)
[14:38:58] <hatOFF> rofl
[14:39:00] <hatOFF> but it works
[14:39:03] <fevoldj2> Yeah
[14:39:17] <fevoldj2> So I'd have to import the java.util.Random class correct?
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[14:39:42] <hatOFF> exactly.
[14:39:59] * hatOFF feels half smart ;)
[14:40:10] <jor> there's also Math.random() :)
[14:40:10] <fevoldj2> :)
[14:40:30] <jor> just to add some confusion ;)
[14:40:35] <hatOFF> lol
[14:40:36] <hatOFF> :)
[14:41:09] <fevoldj2> Well that's exactly what I need.. more confusion
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[14:42:14] <defcon8> does anyone actually use sgi?
[14:42:36] <adaran> hello everyone
[14:42:48] <adaran> any recommendation on a java book for someone with a bit of programming experience?
[14:43:11] <IseeIsee> jor: what do you mean everybody is a server & client at the same time /
[14:43:28] <adaran> is there anything like the K&R for C or TCPP for C++ in the Java world?
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[14:44:33] <defcon8> yes
[14:44:35] <defcon8> think in java
[14:44:45] <defcon8> by the same guy (bruce eckel ) that made TICPP
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[14:45:09] <ernimril> ~tell defcon8 about tij
[14:45:10] <javabot> defcon8, tij is http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIJ/
[14:45:10] <adaran> i mean The C++ Programming Language by Bjarne Stroustroup (spelling?), not TCIPP =)
[14:45:25] <IseeIsee> ~book
[14:45:26] <javabot> IseeIsee, book is http://www.sun.com/books/catalog/gosling_JPL4.xml
[14:45:35] <defcon8> well ther IS the java tutorial isnt there
[14:45:53] <adaran> IseeIsee, thanks
[14:45:57] <ernimril> the java tutorial is good
[14:46:01] <adaran> defcon8, doesn't have to be free...
[14:46:18] <defcon8> is that book free?
[14:46:24] <defcon8> does it explain the whole api? maybe i should get it
[14:46:29] <defcon8> i mean not free
[14:46:31] <defcon8> is it good
[14:46:45] <IseeIsee> no book explains the whole API
[14:46:54] <defcon8> right
[14:47:01] <ernimril> well the api is very big...
[14:47:14] <IseeIsee> I have this book of Java 2, 4th Edition by Herbert Schildt, its not that bad
[14:47:23] <IseeIsee> also Bruce Eckel books are nice too
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[14:47:57] <defcon8> bloody hell it is 50 dollars
[14:48:34] <defcon8> but it is 928 pages. nice one
[14:48:45] <defcon8> does it teach java? what kind of book is it?
[14:48:49] <ernimril> that is about 900 pages too much...
[14:49:34] <defcon8> why?
[14:51:22] <Epesh> no schildt book should be purchased anyway
[14:51:36] <Epesh> he's a hack
[14:51:42] <defcon8> why so?
[14:51:53] <Epesh> why is he a hack?
[14:54:34] <defcon8> yes
[14:54:55] <hatOFF> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/roLs3A94.html <-- where do I have to catch the exception? I don't understand!
[14:55:10] <Epesh> defcon8: he rather clearly writes to fulfill word counts
[14:55:16] <defcon8> ok
[14:55:24] <Epesh> hatOFF: try learning java, it's a neat language
[14:55:57] <Xgc> hatOFF: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/essential/exceptions/
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[14:58:03] <defcon8> anyone have safari?
[14:59:21] <fevoldj2> Hmm
[14:59:37] <hatOFF> Am I the only romanian here?
[14:59:40] <fevoldj2> I get a class path error. NoClassDefFoundError
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[14:59:57] <fevoldj2> I remember fixing that once lol
[15:00:30] <Epesh> fevoldj2: it's easy enough to fix
[15:01:24] <Epesh> hatOFF: we can only hope
[15:01:32] <fevoldj2> lol
[15:02:36] <hatOFF> :)
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[15:02:54] <defcon8> ahh l33t, it accepted my CC
[15:03:49] <fevoldj2> So I type "set classpath=c:\j2sdk1.4.2_09\lib" ?
[15:04:33] <Epesh> fevoldj2: uh, no?
[15:04:41] <IseeIsee> hey nobody answered my questions, which I asked above
[15:04:59] <Epesh> IseeIsee: maybe noone cared
[15:05:05] <fevoldj2> meh
[15:05:07] <IseeIsee> :)
[15:05:08] <hatOFF> I can't answer mine :(
[15:05:11] <Epesh> it's happened before to you, quite likely to happen again
[15:05:13] <fevoldj2> I just set it to nothing and it works fine
[15:05:18] <fevoldj2> hehe
[15:05:20] <IseeIsee> why no one cared ?
[15:05:26] <Epesh> fevoldj2: funny what happens when you know java
[15:05:31] <Epesh> IseeIsee: dunno, I didn't see the question
[15:05:56] <IseeIsee> ok you can sroll up & see
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[15:06:17] <Epesh> actually, no, I can't
[15:06:27] <IseeIsee> you joined in late ?
[15:06:29] <Epesh> I don't have scroll up capability on this client, and I don't care to fix that
[15:06:32] <IseeIsee> I can repaste them
[15:06:35] <fevoldj2> lol
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[15:06:38] <Epesh> oh, please don't
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[15:06:52] <IseeIsee> I want to develop a small multiplayer game
[15:06:55] <fevoldj2> You can page up with irssi can't you?
[15:07:07] <Xgc> IseeIsee: Use the pastebin for long winded questions.
[15:07:16] <IseeIsee>  I have a couple of questions regarding that, what would be its peer to peer approach & client/server approach
[15:07:16] <IseeIsee> <IseeIsee> also taking one example, lets say there are two players in the game and they are playing on the same map in the game, that means the map is shared among different users, as they should all be seeing the same map
[15:07:16] <IseeIsee> <IseeIsee> so we are suppose to put the map on the server and then share it with every user, how does this approach fit in with the client/server or p2p model ?
[15:07:22] <fevoldj2> spam :(
[15:07:22] <Epesh> fevoldj2: not on this client
[15:07:26] <fevoldj2> oh
[15:07:39] <Epesh> fevoldj2: I don't feel like fixing it, because that helps resist the temptation to answer people like IseeIsee
[15:08:41] <IseeIsee> hey Epesh, whats the problem with you, if you don't wanna answer, don't say anything
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[15:08:51] <Epesh> see? "I have a client/server app and model, and I can't figure out if it's client/server or p2p"
[15:09:03] <IseeIsee> you don't want to answer and you also want to tell you don't want to answer
[15:09:14] <Epesh> IseeIsee: I don't need to answer
[15:09:26] <Epesh> critical aspect, that
[15:09:30] <Xgc> IseeIsee: What part of client/server don't you understand?
[15:09:41] <IseeIsee> Xgc: I understand
[15:09:54] <Xgc> IseeIsee: What part of p2p don't you understand?
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[15:10:09] <IseeIsee> what I don't understand is whether I should use p2p or server and how would they be implemented
[15:10:14] <IseeIsee> I mean what would make them different
[15:10:36] <Xgc> IseeIsee: Then you really don't understand.
[15:10:38] <IseeIsee> I make function calls to my server stub, and my server stub makes functions call on the client stub, this is client/server ?
[15:10:41] * Epesh sighs
[15:10:48] <IseeIsee> ok may be I don't
[15:11:03] <IseeIsee> I tried to search online, could'nt get a link where I could read up on it
[15:11:07] <IseeIsee> ~p2p
[15:11:08] <malte> is it possible to find out what color a pixel with given coordinates on a Canvas has?
[15:11:08] <javabot> IseeIsee, I have no idea what p2p is.
[15:11:16] <IseeIsee> ~client/server
[15:11:17] <javabot> IseeIsee, I have no idea what client/server is.
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[15:12:02] * Epesh sighs again
[15:12:09] <malte> is that even possible?
[15:12:21] <Epesh> malte: is what even possible? oh, yes
[15:12:27] <Epesh> by getting the image, and examining it
[15:13:18] <IseeIsee> so Xgc: where do I stand :)
[15:13:41] <Xgc> IseeIsee: Well, if your game is limited to 2 players, you could use a peer to peer link.  But more often you really use a simplified client/server approach where one of the nodes acts as the server and client for the local player and the other player runs strictly in a client mode.
[15:15:03] <malte> Epesh: but how?
[15:16:42] <IseeIsee> no its not 2 players
[15:16:55] <IseeIsee> its like different players and teams, just like Counter Strike
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[15:17:50] <IseeIsee> I put a question earlier that lets say e.g. for all my players the map I'll be using in a game, by map I mean a graphical map of the game, its the same among all users, so I should put that map on the server ?
[15:20:24] <jor> IseeIsee: well, most game, like CS, have it on the server. And it's send to the clients when they don't have it already
[15:21:02] <IseeIsee> ok but lets say there are some bonus value packs sort of thing being generated on the map
[15:21:23] <IseeIsee> and if the player hits with these packs the health increases & all that, I hope you get what I mean
[15:21:30] <IseeIsee> and they are being randomly generated
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[15:22:04] <Xgc> IseeIsee: That's normally handled by the server and clients simply obtain the data from the server.
[15:22:19] <IseeIsee> and they should appear at the same time & be at the same locations for all the players, so my own understanding is that the they should be generated at the server so the server sends all its client the exact information ?
[15:22:43] <IseeIsee> ya thats what I had in mind and thats what I wanted to confirm, so Xgc confirmed it for me, thanks
[15:23:38] <IseeIsee> ok I'll be working on it in the next 4 or 5 days and I'll keep on bothering you guys :)
[15:23:48] <IseeIsee> by the way I also heard that we face the issue of networks delays
[15:23:51] <IseeIsee> how do we resolve that ?
[15:24:11] <Xgc> IseeIsee: Use shorter cables.
[15:24:17] <IseeIsee> :)
[15:24:26] <IseeIsee> I mean at the software level
[15:24:55] <IseeIsee> I don't have control over the networks, its already laid down
[15:25:03] <IseeIsee> I can only improve my game, any suggestion for that ?
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[15:27:43] <jor> IseeIsee: make it a turn-based game :)
[15:28:01] <Xgc> IseeIsee: Not without more specific information.  The question is too vague.
[15:28:02] <IseeIsee> :)
[15:28:08] <IseeIsee> ok
[15:28:15] <IseeIsee> well how should I put it
[15:28:18] <jor> action games usually do some predictive calculations on the client side, to try and mask the lag
[15:28:31] <IseeIsee> ok let me describe the game
[15:28:52] <IseeIsee> its a game which has these random map consisting of walls which are laid down initially
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[15:29:14] <IseeIsee> they we have these small tanks which are gif images representing each player, they move around in the map firing at opponents tanks
[15:29:22] <Xgc> IseeIsee: That's not necessary in the channel.
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[15:30:08] <IseeIsee> so what happens is that when I'm moving my tank, the tank is lagging behind on the other players screen
[15:30:14] <Xgc> Document the requirements for your game and post the URL for anyone interested.
[15:30:37] <IseeIsee> ahan
[15:30:47] <Xgc> IseeIsee: You shouldn't be looking at other players screens.
[15:31:14] <IseeIsee> its not about whether I'm looking at other players screen, I'm talking on testing grounds
[15:32:46] <IseeIsee> e.g I fire on the opponents tank and my screen shows that the tank has been destroyed, while in the mean time the other player tank had moved backward before the missile was fired on my screen, so on my screen the opponents destroyed & on the other screen the opponents is roaming here & there :)
[15:32:48] <SinPi> hmmmm. odd. I have a signed applet, signed enough to have permission to display the FileChooser window, but apparently not trusted enough to allow local file access... Should I somehow enable such permissions, or what?
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[15:38:06] <jor> IseeIsee: there's not a full proof solution to that problem, whole books have been written about that :) Like I said before, most games make some predications to mask the lag and hope it guessed correctly
[15:38:59] <IseeIsee> ic
[15:39:51] <IseeIsee> IseeIsee says ic :)
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[15:42:33] <jor> ~aolbonics
[15:42:33] <javabot> jor, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
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[16:13:19] <defcon8> how do you do factorial in java?
[16:13:54] <cheeser> the same way you'd do it in any other language
[16:14:18] <defcon8> ko
[16:14:20] <defcon8> ok
[16:14:26] <defcon8> like !21 or something?
[16:14:45] <defcon8> i mean 21!
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[16:15:05] <ernimril> defcon8: java have no operator that does factorial, you have to do it yourself
[16:16:00] <sateh> no factorial operator? man what kind of lame language is this?!
[16:16:09] <defcon8> oh ok then
[16:20:51] <ernimril> defcon8: why do you need one?
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[16:22:18] <paulweb515_> sateh: an edible one
[16:23:47] <malte> uhm.. if i have an object Date date; is getTime() really supposed to give the same value everytime i call it?
[16:23:55] <illl> defcon8:here is an example http://examples.oreilly.com/jenut/Factorial.java
[16:24:51] <malte> so that i'll have to do (new Date()).getTime() everytime i want the time?
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[16:25:27] <ernimril> malte: System.currentTimeMillis()
[16:25:41] <idpromnut> malte: why don't you look at System.getCurrentTimeMillis() (I think that's the call)
[16:25:54] <malte> ok, thanks :)
[16:26:06] <malte> that is probably faster than doing new Date().getTime()?
[16:26:26] <ernimril> malte: a tiny bit, you do not create a Date object
[16:26:28] <idpromnut> it probably doesn't involve an ibject creation, so yes
[16:26:51] <malte> thanks
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[16:38:46] <hanasaki> lamia   \LAY-mee-uh\   noun
[16:38:46] <hanasaki>      : a female demon : vampire
[16:38:50] <hanasaki> good morning
[16:40:19] <defcon8> hello
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[16:41:43] <n0b0dY> sup
[16:41:50] <defcon8> hello
[16:42:23] <n0b0dY> if i opne a file using File, how do i close it?
[16:42:50] <ernimril> n0b0dY: File is something that ought to have been named Path, it is not an open file
[16:43:19] <ernimril> n0b0dY: you have to close streams and channels
[16:44:57] <n0b0dY> ern: i just realized that! =D i missed the "stream.close()" =P
[16:45:17] <n0b0dY> ernimril: =P
[16:46:30] <Cow_woC> I'm reading Hibernate in Action and I think it's saying something that makes no sense: that it is all right to use second-level caching on data that rarely changes. The problem being that if it *does* change you'll get data corruption will you not? Sounds like a bad idea to me, did I miss something?
[16:46:44] <pr3d4t0r> ::yawn::
[16:46:45] <pr3d4t0r> Good morning.
[16:46:50] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: good morning
[16:50:38] <kinabalu> wtf is the point of mocking expectations in a test?  if you change any of the ways in which the impl does things, it fails the test .. but that doesn't mean it doesn't still work ... argh#?!@#
[16:51:15] * pr3d4t0r gives kinabalu some hierba mate tea so he can cool off.
[16:51:34] * kinabalu ahhhhhh
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[16:52:12] <keyhack> hey all
[16:55:27] <defcon8> just had a look at killer game programming in java, scary...
[16:55:32] <defcon8> hello
[17:01:14] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: Ping...
[17:01:34] <amphiboid> who's that ##java regular working for a J2ME game development/porting company?  Pandora--?
[17:02:25] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: yes ..
[17:02:50] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: Are you using the firewall.rc script as well?
[17:02:50] *** zzxxcc has quit IRC
[17:02:50] <kinabalu> brb.
[17:02:54] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: OKi.
[17:03:10] *** n0b0dY has quit IRC
[17:03:14] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: no, haven't configured it yet ... i'll be back shortly .. gotta clean the damn atrium !
[17:03:45] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: OKi -- let's talk about it shortly.
[17:03:49] *** RLN has joined ##java
[17:04:02] <RLN> Is it possible to stop a method from running, on command?
[17:04:37] <pr3d4t0r> RLN: return;
[17:04:39] <alesan> do you know a windows programming channel? it's not Java related, unfortunately...
[17:04:41] *** pem3v78 has quit IRC
[17:04:44] <RLN> but from another class
[17:04:51] <pr3d4t0r> RLN: ...
[17:04:53] <pr3d4t0r> RLN: No.
[17:04:59] <RLN> :\
[17:05:03] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell RLN about bunny
[17:05:03] <javabot> RLN, bunny is Just For You! http://www.userfriendly.org/illiad/wtf.jpg
[17:05:04] *** SegmentFault has joined ##java
[17:05:53] * pr3d4t0r ponders if that was more panda worthy than bunny worthy...
[17:06:03] <RLN> I'm using a classloader, using reflection. But i need it to stop the "plugin" on command
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[17:09:07] <Cow_woC> alesan: #winprog in efnet ... though I should warn you some of the ops there are asses
[17:09:41] <Cow_woC> alesan: and also a lot of the users like to make fun of people to avoid showing the fact they have no clue what the answer is.
[17:09:56] <Cow_woC> :) typical IRC
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[17:12:23] <bqk> how can you dynamically create a class that is specified on the command line?
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[17:18:28] <paulweb515_> bqk: Check out Class and the java.lang.reflect API
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[17:20:00] <bqk> ok thanks
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[17:24:27] <ernimril> bqk: what you want is dynamic classloading, usually you do that with Class.forName
[17:29:13] <bqk> i'll give that a go
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[17:42:03] <kosh[0]> hi, is there a way to tell swt to only put two columns of widgets on a gridlayout that has 4 columns?
[17:42:15] *** Stork has joined ##java
[17:42:20] <kosh[0]> I want to leave the space after it blank but I can't find a method to do it
[17:42:55] <Stork> if in an outputstream, a byte[] is written, can i read all of that byte doing read() commands in a normal inputstream?
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[17:43:12] <ernimril> kosh[0]: 1) why are you using swt? 2) put an panel in the empty space
[17:43:17] <Stork> that's a stupid question, isn't it ;o
[17:43:52] <Stork> ignore me :)
[17:43:52] <kosh[0]> ernimril: because it's what eclipse uses
[17:44:02] <ernimril> Stork: a read(byte[]) may not fill all of the array
[17:44:17] <Stork> i meant int read()
[17:44:21] <kosh[0]> you want me to use swing instead? isnt that going to look weird? or will the themes match up?
[17:44:22] <ernimril> kosh[0]: yes and it limits the numbers of users you have
[17:44:40] <kosh[0]> ernimril: but it's a eclipse plugin?
[17:44:42] <kosh[0]> so...
[17:44:46] <ernimril> kosh[0]: you can use swing in the programs you develop in eclipse
[17:44:51] <kosh[0]> if you can't run eclipse, it's kinda useless
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[17:45:04] <kosh[0]> can't/don't
[17:45:20] <ernimril> kosh[0]: ok, if you want to do an eclipse plugin it is ok to use swt...
[17:45:37] <kosh[0]> ernimril: ah, well I was wondering whether if i use swing, it'll look the same as swt, or will it use that dammed awful theme?
[17:45:54] <ernimril> kosh[0]: I do not know, I do  not use eclipse
[17:46:02] <kosh[0]>  ok :)
[17:47:06] <ernimril> kosh[0]: as I see it eclipse is a slow, memory hungry program that tries to distract me from coding by wasting screen space on toolbars, package trees and system output consoles...
[17:47:10] <paulweb515_> The swing will look different than the SWT, but you can still use the SWT_AWT bridge and put swing in your plugin
[17:47:25] <ernimril> kosh[0]: (as most ide:s)
[17:47:26] <kosh[0]> hehe
[17:47:37] <paulweb515_> ernimril: go Emacs+JDE!
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[17:47:56] <kosh[0]> does swt have a panel widget?
[17:48:06] <ernimril> paulweb515_: I use emacs, but jde makes emacs about as useful as any other ide (that is not at all)
[17:48:55] <kosh[0]> I'm googling for it and I can't find anything "swt widgets panel"
[17:49:14] <ernimril> kosh[0]: try a blank label or something like that instead then
[17:49:16] <paulweb515_> ernimril: Begin able to type variable. and have it show you vaild methods is always a vast improvement
[17:49:21] <kosh[0]> ah, good idea
[17:49:34] <ernimril> paulweb515_: no
[17:49:43] <ernimril> kosh[0]: panel may be called canvas
[17:49:53] <paulweb515_> kosh[0]: a panel is just a composite ... create an empty composite and setSize()
[17:49:54] <kosh[0]> ahhh I saw canvas
[17:50:06] <paulweb515_> ernimril: yes
[17:50:21] <paulweb515_> speaking as someone that used reflection to look up class methods
[17:50:31] <paulweb515_> just so I wouldn't have to use IntelliJ
[17:50:34] <ernimril> paulweb515_: I do not like it, so it is not an universal truth
[17:50:56] <ernimril> paulweb515_: many people like it and that is fine by me, everyone have to select their own tools.
[17:51:07] <Garibaldi> depends on if you need a crutch
[17:51:13] <Garibaldi> or if you can program using your own brain
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[17:51:28] <paulweb515_> variable. is always faster than your own command line tool
[17:51:58] <paulweb515_> Now I prefer Emacs or VIM, but that doesn't mean that variable. in an IDE isn't faster, it just means
[17:52:06] <ernimril> paulweb515_: typing is faster than using the mouse or moving your hand to use the cursor keys...
[17:52:12] <paulweb515_> I prefer to approach my programming a different way
[17:52:23] <kosh[0]> standing in a bucket?
[17:52:33] <kosh[0]> very novel, but I aint sure how it helps in this situation
[17:52:35] <christo> has anybody come across the Asterisk::Outgoing perl module which is mentioned in this presentation? http://community.moertel.com/~thor/talks/pgh-pm-talk-asterisk.pdf
[17:52:40] <paulweb515_> ernimril: which is why I like emacs as an editor ... plus having to hit 5+ keys for anything
[17:52:48] <paulweb515_> you get a lot more exercise
[17:53:12] <paulweb515_> :-)
[17:53:20] <paulweb515_> but you don't have to use the mouse
[17:53:21] <kosh[0]> it's like that game where you put your arm on yello, your left leg on red and your armpit on the blue
[17:53:39] <paulweb515_> kosh[0]: exactly
[17:54:25] <paulweb515_> ernimril said "as useful as any other ide (that is not at all)" and "I do not like it, so it is not an universal truth"
[17:55:00] <paulweb515_> ernimril: so what you meant was "as useful as any other ide (that is not at all)" for me, who prefers to program differently than the masses
[17:55:44] <ernimril> paulweb515_: no, I only expressed my opinion, you are allowed to have your own
[17:55:52] <kosh[0]> lies
[17:57:16] <Garibaldi> considering "the masses" are really shitty programmers, I wouldn't really consider that an insult
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[17:58:26] <Stork> hehe
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[17:59:57] <paulweb515_> Garibaldi: why hang out and help people if you don't want to?
[18:00:21] <Garibaldi> who said I was helping people?
[18:00:34] <paulweb515_> haha
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[18:01:11] <paulweb515_> ernimril: opinions are shiny
[18:01:21] <ernimril> paulweb515_: this is not a help channel.... but quite a lot of people do get help on java here... this channel is for discussing java programming...
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[18:02:48] <Pi_Wizard> if i was using a JTextField and i wanted to change the text in it, whats the command for it?
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[18:03:09] <defcon8> hmm trying tomake a factorial algo is fun :D
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[18:03:34] <ernimril> Pi_Wizard: setText, same as for a lot of text components
[18:03:38] <Pi_Wizard> like n!
[18:03:41] <paulweb515_> ernimril: discussing java programming helps other people :-)
[18:03:48] <paulweb515_> but I do understand the distinction
[18:04:00] <Pi_Wizard> oh oops that was an int i was passing through
[18:04:01] <Pi_Wizard> lol
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[18:04:09] <Pi_Wizard> i had setText but it errored and i thought it wasnt it
[18:04:22] <Xgc> Pi_Wizard: Check your types.
[18:04:23] <defcon8>  <-- that is the factorial of 5 :D
[18:04:32] <defcon8> is it because i made the result a long?
[18:04:43] <defcon8> i mean i plan to make my programme do the factorial of 53 for later
[18:05:09] <ernimril> defcon8: making a factorial calculator is trivial (at least if you limit yourself to integers (not the java int, Integer) but the number class integer)
[18:05:12] <defcon8> ahh i know what ievw done wrong
[18:05:17] <defcon8> ive
[18:05:33] <ernimril> defcon8: doing homework?
[18:05:39] <defcon8> no
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[18:05:49] <defcon8> well im donig it for homework yes, also just for fun
[18:05:58] <defcon8> as i have nothing else to programme really, no ideas
[18:06:24] <defcon8> how could i do an int with the number class?
[18:06:49] <ernimril> defcon8: you would have to use BigInteger in java to handle the large numbers...
[18:07:05] <defcon8> ahh i know what ive done wrong again
[18:07:16] <defcon8> and what class is that in?
[18:07:17] <ernimril> defcon8: you realize that both int and long are very small for factorials...
[18:07:31] <ernimril> defcon8: not learned to use the javadoc yet?
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[18:07:39] <defcon8> yeah i have
[18:07:46] <defcon8> well i only know how to search java.sun.com
[18:07:53] <defcon8> maybe you could help me with giving me a link to javadoc
[18:08:04] <ernimril> defcon8: "all classes" search for "BigInteger"
[18:08:16] <ernimril> ~tell defcon8 about javadoc BigInteger
[18:08:16] <javabot> defcon8, please see java.math.BigInteger: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/math/BigInteger.html
[18:08:40] <defcon8> thankyou
[18:08:40] <kosh[0]> erm Checkbox anyone? swt doesnt seem to have one
[18:09:09] <ernimril> defcon8: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factorial
[18:09:22] <defcon8> i want to do this on my own
[18:09:25] <defcon8> i know i will in the end
[18:09:31] <decaf> how can I set default theme for all java application on a linux system? I tried to search but unfortunately I dont know what I need to search.
[18:09:33] <ernimril> defcon8: that is for the math
[18:09:44] <ernimril> decaf: default theme?
[18:09:51] <ernimril> decaf: system look and feel or what?
[18:09:59] <Garibaldi> decaf: you want to see the look and feel globally?
[18:10:02] <Garibaldi> s/see/set/
[18:10:11] <ernimril> decaf: if you use system look and feel you will get something that resembles the current gtk+ theme
[18:10:11] <decaf> ernimril: java apps on my system looks like gtk 1.x apps.
[18:10:32] <Pi_Wizard> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/LdT0Pz60.html num.toString() says int num cannot be dereferenced, so what is wrong with it? it's in an inner class
[18:10:33] <ernimril> decaf: "java -version" say what?
[18:10:50] <decaf> I want to set all of them to default metal theme.
[18:10:52] <kosh[0]> ok, the only swt designers I can find are jigloo and swt designer, anyone recommend another? cause jigloo is just as horrid as eclipe VE and swt designer I'm geting now
[18:10:57] <decaf> ernimril: sun 1.5.04
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[18:11:32] <ernimril> decaf: I doubt that, it would be 1.5.0_04 for the real thing...
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[18:11:56] <ernimril> decaf: how did you install java?
[18:12:03] <decaf> Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.5.0_05-b05) exactly
[18:12:20] <decaf> ernimril: with make-jpkg script for debian
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[18:13:00] <ernimril> decaf: odd. I just download the binary from sun and unpacks it, they I get the normal metal theme
[18:13:16] <ernimril> s/, they/, then/
[18:13:54] <ernimril> decaf: so I suggest you check what the debian docs say, it seems to be a debian thing
[18:15:04] <decaf> jre 1.5 on windows looks just like any other windows app. (except its slowness)
[18:15:12] <kosh[0]> I'm seriously thinking about making my plugin rely on gtkjava and to hell with it
[18:15:14] <defcon8> how do i make a list x elements big
[18:15:44] <defcon8> i tried arrays int[] x = null; and stuff but i cant seem to be able to assign stuff to it
[18:15:57] <kosh[0]> lol, that thought, just for two property pages hahahah
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[18:16:11] <kosh[0]> swing and swt are a joke compared to gtk
[18:16:12] <defcon8> say i have factorial 5 i am planning to put 5 and 4 and 3 and 2 and 1 into the array and then times them by eachother
[18:16:22] <kosh[0]> ufff, <googles>
[18:16:32] <ernimril> kosh[0]: ?
[18:17:12] <ernimril> defcon8: why would you do that?
[18:17:22] <kosh[0]> ernimril: the complexity of swing/swt is enough to make me pull my hair out and want to chant death to the designers :P the layout of swing and swt components is idiotic at best, criminal at worst
[18:17:36] <kosh[0]> whoever thought of this system, I'd leave bleeding to death at the side of the road
[18:17:40] <defcon8> i cant think of anything else to do
[18:17:43] <defcon8> the other stuff i tried didnt work
[18:17:48] <yi> how do i create a random intenger between (int x, int y)? The random object allows Random(int n) but that includes 0
[18:17:48] <kosh[0]> with a song in my heart and a smile on my face
[18:18:10] <defcon8> ill rethink thus
[18:18:12] <defcon8> this
[18:18:17] <ernimril> kosh[0]: swing is not trivial for all things, but doing complex guis in swing is way easier than doing them in gtk... at least thats how I find it
[18:18:27] <kosh[0]> hahahahaha
[18:18:53] <ernimril> yi: create one between (0 and (y - x)), then add x
[18:20:43] <paulweb515_> kosh[0]: a checkbox is a button with one of the SWT constants ... SWT.CHECK?
[18:20:50] <yi> ernimril: oh, i guess that works, thanks
[18:20:56] <kosh[0]> paulweb515_: thanks
[18:25:31] <paulweb515_> naan is good!
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[18:28:34] <defcon8> http://pastebin.com/411093  <-- can someone tell me what is wrong with this algo please
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[18:29:36] <Stork> defcon8, it's brokem
[18:29:39] <Stork> broken*
[18:29:53] <X3rxes> rofl
[18:29:58] <X3rxes> <3 Stork
[18:30:18] <kosh[0]> why do I have to set bounds on things like labels?
[18:30:32] <kosh[0]> it's like every widget has to have a particuar set of dimensions
[18:30:33] <Stork> :P
[18:30:36] <Stork> hi xerxes
[18:30:41] <X3rxes> hai
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[18:31:25] <Stork> defcon8, what's it supposed to do?
[18:31:35] <Xgc> kosh[0]: You don't.  Why do you think that?
[18:32:20] <kosh[0]> Xgc, cause when I use the visual editor in eclipse it's setting them for me, so I thought, ok, I don't need them, deleted the setBounds() and it made my text disappear
[18:32:50] <ernimril> kosh[0]: What layout manager are you using?
[18:32:55] <kosh[0]> it's like everything it creates, has setBounds applied to it and when I remove it, it disappears, I think it's setting bounds(0,0)
[18:33:03] <Xgc> kosh[0]: You're misunderstanding something.  You might want to look into the layout manager you are using.
[18:33:21] <kosh[0]> ah, it's not using one
[18:33:27] <kosh[0]> wow, it's clever that :P
[18:33:51] <Xgc> kosh[0]: Generally, it's probably best to not use an IDE for this and to learn how Swing works yourself first.
[18:33:56] <Pi_Wizard> defcon, why not just use a slop which takes the count sets it as the beginning then decrements til it reaches 0 then at 0 it'll leave the loop
[18:34:00] <kosh[0]> GridLayout? GridBagLayout?
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[18:34:09] <Pi_Wizard> ah ok you did
[18:34:16] <Pi_Wizard> earlier you were talking about arrays
[18:34:17] <Pi_Wizard> and stuff
[18:34:18] <kosh[0]> Xgc, from what I've seen I dont want to learn it, I only use it cause I need a preferences page
[18:35:12] <Xgc> kosh[0]: Later, you can override and delete to your hearts content, given that you understand what you are doing.  Given that you currently don't understand Swing, STOP changing things you don't understand.
[18:36:08] <kosh[0]> Xgc, thing is I dont like swing, atall, I hate it, gtk kicks it's ass and I find it very hard to do simple things in swing, that I can do in 5 lines in gtk
[18:36:13] <kosh[0]> so I've gota natural hatred of it
[18:36:29] <Xgc> kosh[0]: It's easy to understand why you might hate something you don't understand at all.
[18:36:35] <kosh[0]> :)
[18:37:08] <paulweb515_> kosh[0]: but if you set them up, the swing layouts will do all of the setBounds() for you
[18:37:23] <paulweb515_> That must be worth a little inconvienience :-)
[18:37:26] <Xgc> kosh[0]: Lots of people make that mistake, trying to evaluate technology that they have no clue about.
[18:38:03] <kosh[0]> Xgc, but overall a toolkit is defined by how easy it is to use, if you have to sit around for hours reading god knows what like I've tried to do today, it's not a very good toolkit
[18:38:26] <kosh[0]> with gtk, was 10 minutes and I was away creating buttons, dialogs, radiobutton groups, treeviews
[18:38:41] <kosh[0]> in swing, I can't create a simple arrangement of buttons for a property page :P
[18:38:43] <Xgc> kosh[0]: You chose to use null layout.  That's your fault.
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[18:38:55] <defcon8> i found a bug in google :D
[18:38:58] <kosh[0]> Xgc, ok, but I've got a gridbaglayout now
[18:39:01] <defcon8> well i guess many people have found the same thing
[18:39:06] <defcon8> cache: www.google.com
[18:39:20] <Xgc> kosh[0]: and why did you choose that?
[18:39:34] <kosh[0]> because I want columns of layout and it seemed to fit from what I've read today
[18:39:54] <Xgc> kosh[0]: Ok.  If that's what you want, you should be all set.
[18:40:12] <kosh[0]> except I arent :P lol it's still doing the same thing
[18:40:16] <kosh[0]> hahahaha, this is hilarious really
[18:40:20] <Xgc> kosh[0]: See how esay Swing is when you choose what you want?
[18:40:21] <kosh[0]> 10 years I've been programming
[18:40:22] <kosh[0]> lol
[18:40:51] <Stork> lego != programming
[18:40:57] <kosh[0]> hahahah
[18:41:06] <kosh[0]> ace
[18:41:17] <paulweb515_> Stork: it's not edible, either
[18:41:31] <Stork> damn, really?
[18:41:41] <Xgc> kosh[0]: Post the testcase you have.  It will be interesting to see what you generated.
[18:42:04] <Pi_Wizard> Jeez when we first did it in class it was easy, it took me like an hour to make a GUI using Swing with 3 different boxed off areas of different sizes and tons of stuff to boot
[18:43:01] <kosh[0]> Xgc, wait, I'm still trying to figure out whats gone wrong
[18:44:50] <kosh[0]> bugger it, I'll write the dammed code by hand
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[18:52:55] <defcon8> Stork, it is supposed to calc factorials
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[18:56:03] <Geren> hi
[18:56:07] <Geren> a have another question
[18:56:19] <Geren> i have a class called Foo, in which i made a protected method that prints "foo"
[18:56:32] <Geren> and then i have a class called Bar in the same package that extends Foo
[18:56:44] <Geren> but when i call that method on a Bar object, it won't compile
[18:57:00] <Geren> but i thought protected methods should be inherited fine as long as the child class is in the same package
[18:58:10] <Garibaldi> protected methods can be called by a subclass, whether it's in the same package or not
[18:58:44] <Garibaldi> protected methods can be called by other classes in the same package, whether it's in the same inheritance tree or not
[18:58:59] <Geren> Garibaldi, right that's what i read too
[18:59:15] <Geren> but when i try to call that protected method in my main program on the Bar object, it doesnt work
[18:59:31] <Geren> oh wait, my main program is in a different package
[19:00:48] <Geren> but i remmeber there's something called "reduced visibility" not allowed?
[19:01:06] <d03boy> am i seeing things, or is eclipse actually telling me that I HAVE to have an else statement with my if statement?
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[19:01:45] <d03boy> ah, missing a brace
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[19:02:25] <paulweb515_> stork: shrink?
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[19:03:33] <R3d> hi
[19:03:48] <R3d> how do I get the time in miliseconds?
[19:03:56] <d03boy> System.timeInMilles()
[19:03:59] <d03boy> Millis
[19:04:01] <R3d> thanx
[19:04:48] <shredstar> What's the difference between a normal image and a RenderableImage?
[19:05:03] <defcon8> one being renderable and one not
[19:05:03] <defcon8> ?
[19:05:21] <d03boy> such incitefulness
[19:05:24] <Geren> can someone give me an example of overriden methods that reduce visibility (which i know is not allowed in java)?
[19:05:32] <defcon8> i guessed
[19:06:28] <ernimril> Geren: "public class Foo { private String toString() {return "42";}}
[19:06:31] <ernimril> "
[19:08:03] <Garibaldi> or:  public class Foo { String toString() { return "42"; }}
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[19:08:16] <Garibaldi> which is a little harder to spot
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[19:08:27] <Geren> ernimril, how is that reducing visibility?
[19:08:35] <Geren> ernimril, which part of this is reducing visibility
[19:08:39] <Garibaldi> Geren: String is defined as public in Object
[19:08:42] <ernimril> Geren: homework?
[19:08:47] <Geren> Garibaldi, oh i see!
[19:08:51] <ernimril> Geren: toString that is
[19:08:54] <Geren> no i am just reading the O'Reilly book
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[19:09:09] <Geren> the second example is package visbility, which is still smaller than public, right?
[19:09:23] <ernimril> Geren: public is for all, package is not for all
[19:09:23] <Garibaldi> yes
[19:09:37] <Geren> right
[19:09:37] <Geren> ic
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[19:09:45] <Geren> is there a more sophisticated example of reducing visibility?
[19:09:56] <Garibaldi> no
[19:09:57] <Garibaldi> not really
[19:10:07] <d03boy> its pretty basic..
[19:10:10] <Geren> hmm ok
[19:10:26] <R3d> hmmm...there is no timeinMillis() in System class..
[19:10:33] <R3d> what am I doing wrong
[19:10:34] <R3d> ?
[19:10:40] <Geren> and no static fields can be inherited right?
[19:10:48] <Garibaldi> currentTimeMillis
[19:10:49] <Geren> in other words, a child class cannot access the static fields of its parent?
[19:10:52] <Jax> how would you guys write first name as a member? FirstName ?
[19:11:06] <Garibaldi> Geren: correct
[19:11:17] <R3d> Garibaldi: thanx
[19:11:23] <Garibaldi> Jax: firstName
[19:11:31] <Geren> ic
[19:11:46] <Garibaldi> R3d: $ javap java.lang.System | grep -i time
[19:11:46] <Garibaldi>     public static native long currentTimeMillis();
[19:11:52] <Garibaldi> javap is a nice tool
[19:11:55] <Jax> ok thanks
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[19:16:56] <Geren> ok another question
[19:17:08] <Geren> i have a class Foo which has a static method that prints "static"
[19:17:16] <slava> http://charlespetzold.com/etc/DoesVisualStudioRotTheMind.html
[19:17:28] <Geren> and then i have a class Bar that extends Foo, and inside bar, i did Bar.staticprint()
[19:17:32] <Geren> and it compiled fine!
[19:17:32] <slava> a good critique of bloated libraries and overly complex IDEs -- they're solving the wrong problem
[19:17:44] <Geren> even though staticprint() is a static method defined in Foo, so shouldn't it be Foo.staticprint() ???
[19:18:18] <shredstar> The right problem is how to sell more books!
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[19:20:27] <Geren> helllooo?
[19:20:33] <Pi_Wizard> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/LdT0Pz60.html num.toString() says int num cannot be dereferenced, so what is wrong with it? it's in an inner class
[19:20:55] <Geren> i thought static methods are not inherited, yet when i did Bar extends Foo, and i ran the static method on an object of Bar, and it still worked!!!!
[19:22:19] <kosh[0]> do I have to fill out a GridLayout's columns with blank widgets to make the next widget I add on the next row, or is there a GridData option I can use?
[19:22:22] <Garibaldi> Geren: it's inherited, but Bar doesn't get it's own version
[19:22:25] <d03boy> i actually dont know if they are inherited
[19:22:29] <Garibaldi> Bar cannot override the method
[19:22:50] <Garibaldi> it can't be used for dynamic dispatch
[19:22:55] <Geren> Garibaldi, what is the significance of "not getting its own version?"
[19:23:10] <Garibaldi> Geren: say you had a static data member
[19:23:19] <Geren> right
[19:23:36] <Garibaldi> if Bar extends Foo, and Foo had a static int x;, then Foo and Bar would share a single x
[19:23:49] <Geren> right
[19:24:02] <Geren> and?
[19:24:03] <Garibaldi> so, Bar doesn't get its own version
[19:24:13] <Geren> hmm
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[19:25:11] <Uviz> Geren, That means there is only one code for "everyone." Static members and methods are held in Method Area -> class data (in this case Foo's) rather than in the Heap area where for every instance (object) you create, JVM allocates appropriate space for it [object].
[19:26:00] <Geren> o
[19:26:01] <Geren> k
[19:26:09] <Geren> but it says that static methods cannot be overriden by the subclass
[19:26:13] <Geren> but i just override it and it works!
[19:26:29] <Geren> i wrote my own versino of the static method with the same name and parameter as in the superclass
[19:26:38] <Geren> and the overriden version was run fine1
[19:26:44] <alexander> how do i tell my main class to get images inside the same jar ? when i compile in eclipse i can see the icons but i can't see them when i run the jar.
[19:27:03] <ernimril> alexander: getResourceAsStream
[19:28:04] <Geren> so weird!
[19:28:11] <Geren> i just overrode a static public void method in my subclass
[19:28:14] <Geren> and it compiled fine
[19:28:26] <Geren> i thought static methods are implicitly final
[19:29:21] <alexander> ernimril: this.getResourceAsStream?
[19:30:31] <Garibaldi> Geren: you didn't really override it
[19:30:47] <Geren> Garibaldi, what do u mean? i wrote a different method with the same API
[19:30:52] <Geren> in my subclass, that is
[19:30:57] <Geren> isnt that overriding?
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[19:31:21] <Garibaldi> class Foo { public static void foo() { } }  class Bar extends Foo { public static void foo() { } }
[19:31:26] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell Geren about aolbonics
[19:31:26] <javabot> Geren, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
[19:31:29] <Geren> sorry
[19:31:30] <Garibaldi> Foo f = new Bar();  f.foo();
[19:31:32] <Garibaldi> which gets called
[19:31:46] <Geren> Garibaldi, yes but in my program, i wrote those two foo's different
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[19:32:08] <Geren> Garibaldi, my superclass's foo() prints "this is static" and my subclass's foo prints "this is the overriden static!"
[19:32:08] <Garibaldi> Geren: hum?
[19:32:17] <Garibaldi> yeah, doesn't matter what it does
[19:32:22] <Geren> what do u mean?
[19:32:27] <Garibaldi> my question is, in my example, which method gets called
[19:32:41] <Geren> ok in your example, its the Bar's version that's called
[19:32:48] <Garibaldi> err, wrong
[19:33:07] <Geren> wrong? i thought its always the type of the object whose version is called
[19:33:14] <Geren> thats virtual method invocation, no?
[19:33:21] <Garibaldi> Geren: static methods are never virtual
[19:33:29] <Geren> oh ok, they can only be shadowed right
[19:33:33] <Garibaldi> ya
[19:33:48] <Geren> so for static methods, its always the version of the reference type that's called, and in this case, its Foo's version
[19:33:57] <Garibaldi> correct
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[19:34:07] <Stork> DataInputStreams suck
[19:34:09] <Geren> Garibaldi, but in my program, its my subclass's version that's called!
[19:34:09] <Garibaldi> 1.) having static methods should be avoided
[19:34:10] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Pingus
[19:34:39] <Geren> Garibaldi, oh wait! i think i got it! if i did Bar b=new Bar(), b.foo(). Then it's the Bar's version that's called
[19:34:42] <Garibaldi> 2.) having static methods in subclasses with the same signature should be avoided
[19:34:52] <Garibaldi> Geren: it's dependent upon the type of the reference
[19:34:53] <Uviz> Geren, You sure you compiles? It shouldn't, you can't override the static method in your subclass.
[19:35:00] <Geren> so even though the static method is not overriden but shadowed, the apperance is the same
[19:35:00] <Uviz> s/you/it
[19:35:02] <Garibaldi> not the type of the object to which the reference points
[19:35:36] <ernimril> Geren: you should call static methods by using the classname.methodname: Foo.someStaticMetod(), if you try to use an object to call static methods you will get odd results...
[19:35:53] <Geren> ok i get it :static methods cannot be overriden but CAN be shadowed, which can achieve the same thing as being overriden as long as the type of the object matches the type of the reference
[19:36:05] <Geren> ok
[19:36:18] <Uviz> Geren, So it wouldn't compile, right? As you were told...
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[19:36:25] <Geren> it does compile fine
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[19:36:38] <Garibaldi> it will compile
[19:36:47] <Garibaldi> but it's a horrible practice
[19:37:01] <Garibaldi> the semantics are different than non-static methods
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[19:37:31] <[algo]> What's the point of Spring ?
[19:37:37] <[algo]> could anyone explain me please..
[19:37:47] <Geren> ok i totally got it now!@
[19:37:47] <Garibaldi> [algo]: it makes things bounce
[19:37:51] <Garibaldi> and bouncing is fun
[19:37:59] <Geren> shadowing/overriding is subtle
[19:38:09] <[algo]> Garibaldi: bounce well, man
[19:38:19] <[algo]> any real answers ? :/
[19:38:26] <solus> [algo]: everyone likes spring
[19:38:27] <Garibaldi> Geren: indeed
[19:38:30] <[algo]> damn yes
[19:38:33] <Geren> Garibaldi, when i shadow a static method, does my subclass have a separate version of it then?
[19:38:34] <[algo]> everyone likes it :)
[19:38:40] <[algo]> and I just can't get why
[19:38:43] <Garibaldi> Geren: yes
[19:38:47] <Geren> ok i see
[19:39:00] <solus> I'm not sure, but i wouldn't be suprised if dmlloyd likes spring
[19:39:07] <Garibaldi> Geren: Foo.foo() and Bar.foo() are separate things
[19:39:07] <kosh[0]> hmmm, I've got my project properties page working, but there are huge gaps by the labels and I dont want them, if I put a webpage with a screenshot and a pastebin, anyone wanna take a look?
[19:39:15] <Geren> ok
[19:39:29] <Lars_G> [algo]: Spring lets you parametrize stuff, so that it becomes easier to add stuff to a large system, or to exchange a component for another without recoding the whole system.
[19:39:35] <kosh[0]> making a sftp transfer plugin and I just wanna get this gui stuff over with
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[19:39:40] <Lars_G> [algo]: My explanation was horrible too
[19:40:03] <[algo]> Lars_G: I saw bean descriptions
[19:40:12] <[algo]> Lars_G: these beans describe objects ?
[19:40:20] <[algo]> Lars_G: like commons.digester ?
[19:40:33] <Lars_G> [algo]: The basic idea of spring, is that it's spring, a single place (and thus more easy to modify than multiple places) who tells an Object looking for another Object which Object to look for and to use.
[19:40:48] <[algo]> yes !
[19:40:51] <[algo]> that is what I heard
[19:40:51] <Lars_G> [algo]: The basic idea is, to make the relationships between objects configured by spring instead of hard coded.
[19:40:55] <[algo]> IoC and stuff
[19:41:06] <[algo]> could you go into detail please ?
[19:41:24] <Lars_G> The interesting aspect of it, is that you can replace an object for another type of Object without having to recode every class that uses that Object to notice the change
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[19:41:46] <Lars_G> So you're more free to exchange components of a multi component system without having to investigate every part that depends on it.
[19:41:57] <[algo]> hmm
[19:42:00] <Lars_G> Now, that's a better explanation :)
[19:42:06] <kosh[0]> anyone want to help me with a simple gui layout problem? screenshot: http://kosh.kmem.org/esftp.png and code: http://pastebin.com/411188 thanks
[19:42:09] <[algo]> am I right: it tells object NAME from object ITSELF ?
[19:42:42] <kosh[0]> it's not a hard problem, I just dont like the huge gap between the first column of labels and the text entry boxes
[19:43:33] <Lars_G> [algo]: I am unsure there. I think basically when an Object needs to use / instantiate another, it asks Spring, and spring passes the ID of an Instance back to the requesting Object
[19:44:28] <[algo]> Lars_G
[19:44:36] <[algo]> what it means " Object needs to use "
[19:44:50] <[algo]> you mean: it needs e.g "Article"
[19:45:00] <[algo]> and it calls spring to create "Article" for him
[19:45:01] <[algo]> right ?
[19:45:08] <shredstar> Well duh. Apparently my transparent GIF was not displaying correctly because I did not create it correctly.
[19:45:45] <Geren> if i have Bar that has a private method, and Foo extends Bar, and I write a public method in Foo that has the same API as that private method in Bar, will it compile?
[19:46:09] <Garibaldi> Geren: try it and see
[19:46:10] <Geren> basically i try to override that private method in my parent class and gives it increased visibility
[19:46:13] <Geren> i tried, and it compiles
[19:46:25] <Geren> but there's no way i can call that method, even if i made it public in my subclas
[19:46:47] <Garibaldi> you can't call it through the interface of the superclass
[19:46:55] <Garibaldi> but you should be able to call it through the interface of the subclass
[19:47:12] <Geren> Garibaldi, no i tried to call it through an object of the subclass, yet it still complains that it has private access
[19:47:17] <Geren> even though i gave it public visibility
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[19:48:08] <Garibaldi> Geren: works for me
[19:48:35] <Geren> hmm
[19:48:36] <solus> [algo]: did you visit #spring? awfully nice fellows
[19:48:52] <Garibaldi> class A { private void foo(){} }  class B extends A { public void foo(){} } ... B b = new B(); b.foo()
[19:49:09] <[algo]> solus: going there
[19:49:55] <Geren> Garibaldi, does not work for me
[19:49:56] <Geren> won't compile
[19:50:10] <Garibaldi> Geren: that very example compiles here
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[19:50:26] <Garibaldi> java version "1.4.2-01"
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[19:50:41] <Garibaldi> also with java version "1.5.0_03"
[19:50:45] <Geren> Garibaldi, but as a general principle, private members cannot be accessed by subclasses, so it shouldn't be overriden, no?
[19:50:53] <Geren> but you just overrode it successfully
[19:50:56] <Garibaldi> Geren: it's not overridden
[19:51:08] <Geren> Garibaldi, its not? then what was it?
[19:51:18] <Geren> Garibaldi, i mean u used the same API
[19:51:18] <Garibaldi> it's a different signature
[19:51:23] <Garibaldi> no
[19:51:29] <Garibaldi> public/private is part of the API
[19:51:53] <Garibaldi> kinda
[19:52:15] <Geren> Garibaldi, ok, so lets say this is not private to begin with. This is just a regular method that's public. And in my subclass i made it protected, yet still kept all the other signatures the same, then is that no longer overriding???
[19:52:28] <Geren> i mean its still overriding no?
[19:52:35] <Geren> its just "overrding with increased visibility"
[19:52:38] <Garibaldi> yeah, that's what I meant by "kinda"
[19:52:42] <Garibaldi> you couldn't do that
[19:52:47] <Garibaldi> but you cannot override private methods
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[19:52:56] <Garibaldi> so, it's not overriding
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[19:53:11] <Geren> Garibaldi, but what u did to that private method is exactly what we do to a non-private method when we override them
[19:53:18] <Geren> but just because its private, its not called overriding?
[19:53:19] <Loodwig> garbialdi: very cool nick
[19:53:25] <Geren> even though its the same procedure?
[19:53:26] <Garibaldi> ~tell Geren about aolbonics
[19:53:26] <javabot> Geren, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
[19:53:29] <Geren> sorry
[19:53:48] * pr3d4t0r ponders giving Geren some anti-aolbonic reinforcement.
[19:53:56] <Geren> u know what i mean?
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[19:54:03] *** Geren was kicked by pr3d4t0r (pr3d4t0r)
[19:54:05] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r
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[19:54:11] <Geren> sorry about that
[19:54:13] * pr3d4t0r eyes Geren
[19:54:14] <Geren> anyway , as i was saying
[19:54:16] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Hej dude, how's life?
[19:54:18] <pr3d4t0r> Geren: Stop hurting our eyeballs.
[19:54:43] <znoG> question for those familiar with MVC: if I was to create a inventory program (typical UNI exercise), and it was to read/write it's info via JDBC, would the model be the one responsible for all the interaction between the DB and the program?
[19:54:44] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Hangin'.  Working on formatting my novel.  Meeting with the graphics artist later.  Writing shit down for a marketing campaign.  Busy.
[19:54:46] <Geren> to "override" a private method to be public, its not called overriding?
[19:54:58] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: Yes.
[19:55:00] <Garibaldi> Geren: private methods are by definition only visible to the defining class.  Preventing a subclass from having a method with the same name would make the subclass be aware of the superclass' private state
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[19:55:10] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: It'd be the model or one of its parts.
[19:55:19] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Ok. Having fun on my side, trying to fix a system which ought to handle /etc/password and iptables from a php frontend.
[19:55:28] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: Chances are good that your model (also called business object) will be an aggregation of other objects.
[19:55:38] <znoG> pr3d4t0r: so from my views, I would call, say, getPrices() which is in the Model and that calls JDBC, just as I would call setPrices() which is also in the model?
[19:55:41] <Garibaldi> Geren: it's not overriding.  If an instance of the subclass calls a superclass method that calls that private method, the subclass' version does not get called.
[19:55:44] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: The crucial thing is to not put the business logic in the GUI components.
[19:55:51] <znoG> pr3d4t0r: yea, the model will have lots of subclasses i'd imagine.
[19:55:52] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: Yup.
[19:56:05] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: No subclasses, but member objects.  Or both.
[19:56:07] <Geren> Garibaldi, my version is 1.5.0_01, and in my version, it won't compile
[19:56:08] <znoG> pr3d4t0r: thanks! the GUI components go under view, and yes they just call functions in the model
[19:56:17] <Garibaldi> Geren: then you've done something wrong
[19:56:20] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: Indeed.  You're on the right track.
[19:56:28] <Geren> no i'm pretty sure it did it
[19:56:29] <Geren> right
[19:56:32] <znoG> pr3d4t0r: :) i hope so hehe
[19:56:32] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Sweet.
[19:56:33] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Shouldn't it be the control who calls methods on the model?
[19:56:40] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: How's LogCop treating you?
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[19:56:44] <Garibaldi> well, I'm 100% sure that I did it right.  Furthermore, I know you can do it.
[19:56:44] <Geren> i mean it will compile if i don't call that method in my Main
[19:56:48] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: I'll update the SourceForge project tonight.
[19:56:50] <Geren> but as soon as i call it, it wont compile
[19:56:56] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Yeah.
[19:57:03] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: But the model should implement the business logic.
[19:57:11] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Not bad, but I've had no time to look at it. Having fun with this project. I'm thinking of scrapping all code and starting with Rails.
[19:57:22] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Aye, the model does.
[19:57:26] <Loodwig> somewhat of a general question:  I am making a card game I want playable via some plugin.  The cardgame is too complicated for flash, so I figured Java would would be fun.  It is not graphically intensive, but should support chatting between users, and interaction, and up to 10 players.  Is Java a good language to use?  And if so, should it be done with the new API and applications linked to some server, or through applets (swing or awt?)
[19:57:29] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: The controller should worry about interfacing the two in ways that make sense, but not be responsible for database access either.
[19:57:33] <Garibaldi> class A { private void foo(){} } class B extends A { public void foo(){} }  public class Foo { public static void main(String[] args) { B b = new B();  b.foo(); }}
[19:57:41] <Lars_G> nod nod, you're right
[19:57:52] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Do you have a SF ID?  I need to add you to LogCop :)
[19:58:02] <znoG> pr3d4t0r: yeah, i don't quite understand (yet) the role of the Controllers, i'm gonna google around a bit to understand it. Model and Views are pretty clear, just gotta get the Controllers role into me.
[19:58:07] <Geren> Garibaldi, ok you are right it works.
[19:58:10] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: I am not sure if I ever got one, let me check
[19:58:20] <Geren> Garibaldi, what i did is A b=new B(); b.foo(), then it won't compile
[19:58:22] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: Let me give you a quick example of how this works.
[19:58:25] <Geren> because it tries to run the A's version
[19:58:26] <znoG> pr3d4t0r: i'm all eyes
[19:58:37] <Garibaldi> Geren: yeah, as I said, it wouldn't work through the superclass' interface
[19:58:42] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: You know that your GUI stuff runs in a single thread, correct?
[19:58:57] <slava> znoG: a controller distinct from a view is not really a general abstraction
[19:58:57] <znoG> pr3d4t0r: not really, never really thought about it, but OK I believe you :)
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[19:59:10] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: So performing operations either directly on the GUI would "hang" it until the operation completes.
[19:59:11] <slava> znoG: the MVC pattern originated from the MVC GUI toolkit. the latter called its event listeners 'controllers'.
[19:59:27] <Geren> Garibaldi, and that's proof that its not overriden, because otherwise it'll have virtual method invocation
[19:59:37] <znoG> slava: ah, i see.
[19:59:37] <alan__> how should one go about generating random coordinates between -1 and 1 ?
[20:00:00] <Garibaldi> Geren: standby, I'll demonstrate
[20:00:12] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: What you probably want to do, is run your business objects in a separate thread, and have an arbiter (like slava explained) that handles events  between that thread and the GUI.  That's your controller.
[20:00:16] <Loodwig> alan: Random object between 0 and 2, subtract 1
[20:00:22] <znoG> pr3d4t0r: So updating a DB, for example, should be done by asking a method in the Controller to do it, so the GUI can carry on.
[20:00:28] <alan__> math.Random(2) - 1 ?
[20:00:50] <Geren> demonstrate?
[20:00:51] <Loodwig> I used the Random type instead of math.Random().  Not sure if there's a real difference
[20:00:56] <znoG> pr3d4t0r: s/$/?
[20:01:08] <alan__> will it generate a random neg number though?
[20:01:10] <alan__> ie. -1 ?
[20:01:28] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: You'd probably fire the event from the GUI to the controller, and this one will hand it to the model for processing.
[20:01:29] <Garibaldi> Geren: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8631
[20:01:31] <slava> there is Math.random(2) method
[20:01:34] <slava> there is no*
[20:01:36] <Loodwig> from what I understand, it just generates a number between 0 and 1, and you apply whatever you want to that.
[20:01:43] <slava> do Math.random() * 2 - 1
[20:01:47] <alan__> hrm
[20:01:48] <alan__> ok
[20:01:53] <znoG> pr3d4t0r: i gotta learn about events and stuff, i think it's a few chapters down the line from where I am in this Java book :)
[20:01:55] <alan__> ill give it a try
[20:02:06] <Garibaldi> Geren: *if* B's version of foo overrode A's version, the output would say B's version twice
[20:02:15] <Loodwig> read up on java.util.Random class
[20:02:19] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: The basic event handlers you'll find at first will be in-thread.
[20:02:37] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: I opened one.
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[20:02:44] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: Later on you'll realize the need for a more sophisticated controller, like when you fire up an event that pulls 200,000 records off your database :)
[20:02:50] <Garibaldi> Geren: however, in this case it prints A's then B's
[20:02:54] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: What is it?  Lars_G?  So that I can invite you.
[20:02:56] <pr3d4t0r> Ah, got it.
[20:02:57] <Loodwig> so no thoughts on my question?
[20:03:04] <Geren> Garibaldi, ok in this case, since Wee is inherited, it'll run, but it encounters A's private member of foo
[20:03:23] <Garibaldi> Geren: yes.  If B has overrode it, it would call B's version
[20:03:29] <znoG> pr3d4t0r: hehe yep makes sense, also makes sense why the teacher said "don't worry about controllers for now"
[20:03:31] <Geren> Garibaldi, even though wee() is run from A?
[20:03:41] <Garibaldi> Geren: yes
[20:03:43] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: Yup.
[20:03:44] <Geren> hmm interesting
[20:03:49] <znoG> pr3d4t0r: since we're creating a small program, not really needed.
[20:03:50] <alan__> jesse
[20:03:51] <alan__> Math.random() * 2 - 1
[20:03:51] <Garibaldi> that's the point of overriding
[20:03:54] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: May the Force be with you, young padawan.
[20:04:02] <Geren> GarethTheGreat, but since B has not overriden it, it'll call A's version?
[20:04:05] <alan__> Coordinate (-1890477001,161508123) lies outside the circle
[20:04:07] <Garibaldi> Geren: make foo public and see
[20:04:08] <znoG> pr3d4t0r: :)
[20:04:10] <alan__> its gone bit mad
[20:04:12] <Geren> its very confusing to me
[20:04:16] <Geren> A's version is protected!
[20:04:20] <Geren> i mean private!
[20:04:32] <slava> alan__: you're doing something wrong.
[20:04:36] <Garibaldi> yeah, hense the word "make"
[20:04:38] <slava> Math.random() returns values in the interval [-1,1]
[20:04:41] <alan__>          int x = generator.nextInt() * 2 - 1;
[20:04:41] <alan__>          int y = generator.nextInt() * 2 - 1;
[20:04:42] <slava> or (-1,1), i forget
[20:04:46] <pr3d4t0r> Two trailing  L's?
[20:04:49] <slava> alan__: jesus.
[20:04:54] <slava> alan__: i said Math.random(), not random.nextInt().
[20:04:55] <kosh[0]> what import do I need to get TextArea?
[20:04:59] <slava> nextInt() returns an INTEGER
[20:05:03] <slava> between 0 and 2^32-1
[20:05:06] <Clackwell> kosh[0]: apidocs
[20:05:08] <alan__> oh
[20:05:10] <Clackwell> hallo everyone
[20:05:13] <Loodwig> yep, the random object
[20:05:16] <kosh[0]> import apidocs?
[20:05:16] <Loodwig> hi clackwell
[20:05:19] <Clackwell> kosh[0]: APIDOCS The API documentation for the Java standard libraries ( download at http://java.sun.com/docs/ ) lists ALL classes (see link "All Classes") and ALL methods (see link "Index"): http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/overview-summary.html
[20:05:22] <kosh[0]> strange...never heard of it
[20:05:34] <alan__> int x Math.random() * 2 -1; ?
[20:05:35] <Clackwell> kosh[0]: it shows
[20:05:38] <Loodwig> wow, a kosh too... (thinks fondly, and wonders if Vir will show up)
[20:05:43] <slava> alan__: its not an int, its a double.
[20:05:49] <alan__> oh sorry
[20:05:50] <alan__> ok
[20:05:54] <kosh[0]> so we can kill him for being ghey as the day is long?
[20:05:57] <kosh[0]> sounds like fun
[20:06:12] <Garibaldi> kosh[0] has not always been here
[20:06:21] <kosh[0]> kosh has been busy
[20:06:24] <Loodwig> hehe
[20:06:27] <kosh[0]> what the hell do you know about kosh's dammed day
[20:06:31] <kosh[0]> all you punks...lol
[20:06:43] * Loodwig is a b5 fan
[20:06:44] <alan__> Coordinate (0.08430147984613057,0.7659587304031332) lies inside the circle
[20:06:51] <kosh[0]> sitting around....coding....meh, I'm out destroying planets
[20:06:56] <Loodwig> hehe
[20:07:32] <slava> alan__: if you use Math.random() to generate two points like that, they won't always be in the unit circle
[20:07:44] <Clackwell> kosh[0]: that part of the series kicked as
[20:07:47] <Loodwig> so, have you guys worked with applets before?
[20:07:49] <Clackwell> erh, arse
[20:07:54] <slava> Loodwig: yes, in 1996
[20:07:59] <kosh[0]> Clackwell: yeah, lol
[20:08:00] <pr3d4t0r> Loodwig: Applets are not a good idea.
[20:08:05] <Clackwell> Loodwig: what slava said
[20:08:05] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell Loodwig about JWS
[20:08:05] <javabot> Loodwig, JWS is a powerful deployment mechanism that is much better than applets because it removes the browser incompatibility hell and you can run any swing app with a main() method without modification. see http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/
[20:08:07] <eghm> '95
[20:08:15] <Loodwig> cool
[20:08:21] <slava> nowadays i don't even install the java plugin for browsers if i can
[20:08:22] <alan__> slava: out of 100,000 coordinates generated, they were all smaller than 1
[20:08:26] <pr3d4t0r> Loodwig: So JWS is the way to go, not Applets.
[20:08:32] <Loodwig> awesome
[20:08:33] <alan__> is * 2 - 1 correct?
[20:08:43] <slava> alan__: ok, here's an exercise for you. suppose that x and y are in the range (-1,1). is (x,y) inside the circle of radius 1 centered at (0,0) ?
[20:08:51] <Loodwig> so how do I get compatability with JWS?  Does it become an application?
[20:09:03] <Clackwell> "but how do i use JWS to program my animations in java to be displayed on my homepage?"
[20:09:04] <Garibaldi> maybe read that link
[20:09:05] <alan__> yeah it is
[20:09:10] <slava> alan__: no, its not. learn some basic geometry.
[20:09:16] <Loodwig> oh, didn't see the link... nvm :)
[20:09:19] <slava> alan__: for example, the point (1,1) is not inside the unit circle.
[20:09:53] <slava> alan__: the unit circle is all (x,y) such that x^2+y^2 <= 1.
[20:10:02] <slava> not all (x,y) such that -1<=x<=1, -1<=y<=1
[20:10:05] <alan__> 2 is more than square root of 1
[20:10:07] <Geren> wait
[20:10:07] <wobster> anyone knows a lightweight java-editor with auto-completion?
[20:10:08] <Geren> ok
[20:10:18] <Loodwig> wobster: eclipse?
[20:10:20] <Geren> the protected modifier has larger visibility than no modifier, right?
[20:10:26] <alan__> x^ + y^ = r^
[20:10:28] <kosh[0]> LIGHTWEIGHT Loodwig
[20:10:35] <wobster> Loodwig, where is eclipse a) leightweight, b) an editor? ;)
[20:10:37] <kosh[0]> 250MB says it's not lightweight
[20:10:45] <slava> Geren: yup
[20:10:45] <Loodwig> it's that big?
[20:10:58] <alan__> slava: sorry
[20:11:00] <kosh[0]> on my disk, yeah
[20:11:01] <Loodwig> last time I saw it, it... yeah it was that big last time
[20:11:01] <alan__> got it
[20:11:03] <wobster> I am jumping back and forth between ecmacs and eclipse .. two extremes
[20:11:04] <Loodwig> nvm :)
[20:11:05] <slava> Geren: protected means that all classes in the same package, and all subclasses can see that membe.r
[20:11:05] <kosh[0]> dont ask me why, cause I dont know
[20:11:11] <Geren> slava, but then how come i am allowed to class Foo {
[20:11:11] <Geren>    public static void main(String[] args) {
[20:11:11] <Geren> ....}} as a main program
[20:11:12] <slava> Geren: no modfiier just means all classes in the same package
[20:11:12] <Clackwell> wobster: have 2 gb of ram, then it is lightweight.
[20:11:15] <Garibaldi> wobster: throw them both out and get vim
[20:11:26] <kosh[0]> Clackwell: lol
[20:11:29] <Geren> slava, but i i change it to protected class Foo{...} it says protected not allowed here
[20:11:31] <ernimril> wobster: vi or edlin would be extreme... emacs is just an editor
[20:11:38] <wobster> GarethTheGreat, vim got auto-comp?
[20:11:39] <kosh[0]> mcedit!
[20:11:42] <Garibaldi> s/editor/operating system/
[20:11:44] <slava> Geren: because its not allowed
[20:11:49] <Geren> it seems that only public or no modifier is allowed in a class with a Main method
[20:11:54] <Clackwell> kosh[0]: my favorite on unix console
[20:11:59] <wobster> jblue seems very light to me
[20:12:00] <Geren> slava, but why, i mean according to the principles of Java, why is that not allowed?
[20:12:05] <wobster> bluej even
[20:12:08] <slava> Geren: i don't know, because java is broken and crappy?
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[20:12:33] <R3d> System.currentTimeMillis()...what does it return..I use it a few times in an aplication and it allways return the same number..I know that becouse my app is small it does the job fast...but i don't think it does it in a millisecond..is this normal?or am I dong something wrong..?
[20:12:40] <Geren> slava, but theoretically there's nothign that prevents a protected class with the Main method from compiling right? i mean protected means it's accessible from everywhere except classes in other packages
[20:12:42] <slava> wobster: emacs and eclipse are more similar than you think. eclipse is just bloated, without offering a lot of new functionality.
[20:12:43] <Loodwig> for jws, the virtual machine is client side, right?
[20:12:44] <Clackwell> R3d: checked api docs?
[20:12:46] <bpalmer> Geren: that's not strictly correct
[20:12:47] <kosh[0]> Clackwell: I think it's great, like edit on msdos, just miles better and totally differnet in almost everyway you can think of
[20:12:48] <slava> Geren: theoretically, a lot of things in jav amake no sense
[20:12:56] <Geren> hmm
[20:12:58] <Geren> ok
[20:12:58] <bpalmer> Geren: you can have non-public classes with a main method
[20:12:59] <Geren> lol
[20:13:14] <Geren> bpalmer, like which modifier?
[20:13:15] <bpalmer> it's simply that you can only execute from the command-line a public class with a public static void main
[20:13:24] <Geren> bpalmer, and why is that?
[20:13:35] <bpalmer> what do you think public means?
[20:13:42] <Geren> its accessible everywhere
[20:13:44] <wobster> slava, even though there are packages for emacs that add completion, there's nothing that utilises the reflection API for example, to inspect the class libs as well. that's a drawback
[20:14:03] <bpalmer> wobster: I thought the jdee used beanshell to do just that?
[20:14:19] <slava> wobster: i wasn't comparing feature sets, just general design
[20:14:25] <slava> eclipse is emacs ported to java
[20:14:38] <wobster> hum .. something new to me. wait. maybe it's useful =)
[20:14:44] <Geren> it seems that my Main Method MUST BE PUBLIC, otherwise it wont run
[20:14:45] <Clackwell> slava: and with more eye appeal
[20:14:45] <pr3d4t0r> ~ide war
[20:14:46] <javabot> emacs is teh suckz
[20:14:47] <pr3d4t0r> ~ide war
[20:14:48] <javabot> netbeans 0wnz
[20:14:49] <pr3d4t0r> ~ide war
[20:14:50] <javabot> notepad is teh suckz
[20:14:51] <pr3d4t0r> ~ide war
[20:14:52] <javabot> netbeans is shit
[20:14:53] <pr3d4t0r> ~ide war
[20:14:54] <javabot> emacs is shit
[20:14:56] <pr3d4t0r> ~ide war
[20:14:56] <javabot> eclipse rocks
[20:14:58] <bpalmer> Geren: to run it from the command-line, yes
[20:14:58] <pr3d4t0r> ~ide war
[20:14:58] <javabot> emacs sucks
[20:15:06] <slava> ~tell pr3d4t0r about flood
[20:15:07] <Geren> bpalmer, i mean to the command line, what is it considered? a class from anthoer package?
[20:15:08] <javabot> pr3d4t0r, Please don't flood, it's irritating.  We *do* have a pastebin or two.
[20:15:09] <bpalmer> not entirely. Eclipse borrows emacs's extensibility but leaves out the dynamic adaptability
[20:15:26] <wobster> jdee looks promising. thanks a lot
[20:15:28] <slava> eclipse does not have an interactive extension language
[20:15:40] <bpalmer> that is correct
[20:15:48] <bpalmer> which is at least a quarter of emacs's power
[20:15:48] <Geren> does the command line look like a class from antoher package to the Main method?
[20:15:53] <Clackwell> wobster: given that you ask for lightweight, you seem to ask for heavyweight features.
[20:15:53] <ernimril> Geren: the signature of main is specified, you can not change it...
[20:15:56] <slava> i'd say its closer to 27%
[20:15:57] <bpalmer> Geren: it doesn't look like anything
[20:16:05] <bpalmer> Geren: but it's a way of thinking through the rationale
[20:16:17] <wobster> I am so used to emacs. I always mess up ecplipse-written code with all those command-keys :)
[20:16:36] <bpalmer> (I'd personally put it at closer to 75% for my usage; but I know I'm an anamoly)
[20:16:41] <wobster> Clackwell, indeed
[20:16:46] <Lars_G> wobster: There is a keystroke mode for emulating emacs strokes in eclipse
[20:16:53] <bpalmer> s/(anamoly)/the correct spelling of $1/e
[20:16:55] <slava> that won't give you emacs lisp though
[20:17:03] <wobster> cool :)
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[20:17:27] <Geren> bpalmer, ok , so i can call the Main method from another class?
[20:17:34] <Geren> like Foo.Main(new String("111"));
[20:17:43] <slava> why do people write new String("111")?
[20:17:46] <Clackwell> ~tell Geren about tias
[20:17:47] <javabot> Geren, Try It And See.  You look silly asking if something will work when you can just try it and see.
[20:17:49] <bpalmer> Geren: yes, but the one that you run from the command line is main() (lower-case)
[20:17:58] <Geren> bpalmer, right i meant main().
[20:18:08] <bpalmer> and it takes String[]
[20:18:12] <Geren> ok i just tried it, and it seems that the signature does not match
[20:18:17] <ernimril> slava: well for that one in a billion times you really need a new string...
[20:18:19] <Geren> right so new String("1223") is a String, no?
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[20:18:27] <bpalmer> slava: guarantees a new object
[20:18:31] <slava> Geren: "1234" is also a string
[20:18:33] <slava> bpalmer: i know
[20:18:36] <slava> bpalmer: but in this case its useless
[20:18:47] <bpalmer> Depending on what it is geren is doing, but...
[20:19:01] <slava> he's gearing up to be an enterprise programmer, that's what he's doing
[20:19:38] <Geren> oh bpalmer ok it got it working now! i succcesfully called the Main method from antoher class!
[20:19:40] <Geren> interesting!
[20:19:59] <Loodwig> do you guys know of an example jws application I can download and see how it works?
[20:19:59] <Clackwell> Geren: "Fascinating."
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[20:20:20] <Clackwell> Loodwig: take any application of your choice. JWS it, done.
[20:20:27] <Loodwig> JWS it?
[20:20:28] <slava> not quite
[20:20:48] <slava> if the application uses class loading to load external JARs, you will have to sign them all, etc
[20:20:51] <Clackwell> Loodwig: yes, do what is necessary to make a java application jwebstart-able
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[20:21:45] <Loodwig> does it behave like a application with starting in main() or with a start() stop() init() and stuff
[20:21:57] * Clackwell shoots Loodwig
[20:22:00] <Garibaldi> new String("1234") != "1234";  new String("1234").intern() == "1234"
[20:22:03] <[algo]> wow
[20:22:08] <[algo]> I understood IOC !
[20:22:11] <Clackwell> Loodwig: you are turning into a Geren.
[20:22:15] <Loodwig> sorry
[20:22:17] * Loodwig takes a shower
[20:22:19] <Geren> hmm
[20:22:26] <slava> [algo]: i didn't
[20:22:41] <Geren> i simply did new String[]({"1234"})
[20:22:54] <bpalmer> [algo]: is understanding the International Olympic Committee so hard?
[20:23:07] <[algo]> bpalmer: not quite obvious
[20:23:24] <[algo]> bpalmer: you should know
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[20:23:56] <kosh[0]> hmmm, when I say to the GridData to verticalSpan = 5, I dont get a Text box which is 5 rows high
[20:24:16] <Clackwell> can't be any worse than the german soocer association. they sell cards for the wolrd championship and disallow reselling those, or passing them on to someone outside your family, etc.
[20:24:27] <Clackwell> big brother in germany, again
[20:24:44] <paulweb515_> kosh[0]:  is it a multi-line text box, or a single line text box?
[20:24:46] <kosh[0]> what do you mean cards?
[20:24:58] <bpalmer> like postcards?
[20:24:59] <Clackwell> kosh[0]: oh, tickets i meant
[20:25:06] <kosh[0]> new Text(c, SWT.MULTI | WRAP | V_SCROLL)
[20:25:18] <kosh[0]> Clackwell: hmm, stopping ticket touts I guess
[20:25:21] <slava> SWT? yuck
[20:25:30] 
[20:25:32] <bpalmer> oh. anti-scalping laws are pretty common
[20:25:50] <Clackwell> kosh[0]: and playing big brother at the same time. it is a sick start already.
[20:26:07] <Clackwell> kosh[0]: welcome to capitalism and the free market.
[20:26:08] <kosh[0]> well is it the government doing it? or the FA? or whatever it's called in your country
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[20:26:25] <Clackwell> kosh[0]: it's the soccer association. they are about to be sued about it.
[20:26:38] <kosh[0]> nice :)
[20:26:50] <Clackwell> i can understand trying to equally sell them first hand. but after that to is none of their business anymore.
[20:26:57] <kosh[0]> yeah
[20:27:00] <Clackwell> to=it
[20:27:10] <kosh[0]> although I can understand them wanting to stop ticket touting
[20:27:23] <Clackwell> kosh[0]: why? if someone is willing to pay that much, why not?
[20:27:35] <kosh[0]> hmmmm
[20:27:38] <Clackwell> as long as you sell them in a fair way, no problem.
[20:27:45] <kosh[0]> i suppose yeah, I mean there is an extortion angle to this
[20:27:54] <kosh[0]> but it's not like you dont havea choice to be extorted or not
[20:27:59] <Clackwell> kosh[0]: free choice of everyone to pay that or not.
[20:28:02] <slava> the real problem is people who go to soccer matches
[20:28:02] <kosh[0]> yeah
[20:28:03] <Clackwell> <nod>
[20:28:25] <Clackwell> slava: that's what they claim to make all this nonsense for, to prevent hooligans from getting access.
[20:28:26] 
[20:28:37] <kosh[0]> it's not like the guy is selling you bread to your starving family
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[20:29:10] <Loodwig> my applogies guys, if Had just read on in the doc I was reading, it would have answered my questions
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[20:29:20] <kosh[0]> oh, you mean sell a ticket to Mr Jameson, only to find Mr Jackass as bought the ticket and is pretending to be Mr Jameson to get into the grounds
[20:30:01] <kosh[0]> paulweb515_: did you see anything odd in what I wrote? all fairly normal right?
[20:30:08] <Clackwell> kosh[0]: <nod> personalized tickets as far as i understand, rfid in the tickets
[20:30:09] <kosh[0]> all I get, is a squished text box in one row
[20:30:25] <slava> swt sucks
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[20:30:43] <kosh[0]> Clackwell: well, I suppose if it gets to a level where it's intolerable, you have to do something, but I aint sure thats why
[20:30:47] <kosh[0]> thats what sorry
[20:31:02] <kosh[0]> perhaps encode the RFID tag and have that tag attached to an address
[20:31:06] <eghm> will it me illegal to resell the personalized tickets?
[20:31:13] <kosh[0]> if the guy can produce his address, thensurely it's his ticket
[20:31:21] <kosh[0]> slava: well, I'm using it cause eclipse does
[20:31:24] <bpalmer> rfid on the tickets?!
[20:31:31] <kosh[0]> and I aint sure swing, awt or anything else is any good
[20:31:35] <slava> kosh[0]: eclipse sucks too
[20:31:45] <kosh[0]> bpalmer: Clackwellmentioned it I think, sounds an interesting idea
[20:31:52] <Clackwell> eghm: they claim it is illegal, they already stepped in as one person bought a ticket that way via ebay. they are being sued about that, esp. since the buyer is not a well known hooligan (or a hooligan at all).
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[20:32:02] <slava> swing is hardly an example of good code, but it is superior to SWT
[20:32:09] <kosh[0]> slava: I dnt think so, better than macromedia dreamweaver for php and might help me replace miserable studio (visual studio)
[20:32:17] <kosh[0]> slava: I dont see how
[20:32:40] <kosh[0]> it all looks like rubbish to me, actually, I'm kinda ok with swt now
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[20:32:51] <eghm> heh, seems everything is going that direction, once you buy something it is not yours to resell
[20:32:53] <kosh[0]> at least it looks likea native app, not like swing, which looks rubbish
[20:33:05] <kosh[0]> eghm: sucks dont it
[20:33:05] <slava> swt is very slow on linux and os x
[20:33:20] <eghm> ya, wave of the future
[20:33:30] <kosh[0]> slava: well since it's a plugin for eclipse, nobody is gonna notice nothing over the baseline slowness anyuway :)
[20:33:30] <slava> what is a 'native app' on linux anyway?
[20:33:52] <bpalmer> frankly, it's amazing the used book market has lasted as long as it has... almost all of the arguments against "piracy" apply to it as well
[20:33:53] 
[20:34:02] <bpalmer> desktop? On linux?
[20:34:13] <kosh[0]> bpalmer: believe it or not, it exists, I've got a nice one
[20:34:14] <slava> if somebody is running KDE, eclipse won't integrate
[20:34:16] <kosh[0]> desktop that is
[20:34:23] <slava> anymore than swing will
[20:35:06] <Clackwell> eghm: in this case they do it to prevent violent activities while the wolrd championships, i guess. so they can claim to do this in the best interest of all "sane" soccer fans. who'd want their friends called because of some fucked up hooligans going crazy afterall?
[20:35:16] <Clackwell> called=dead
[20:35:23] <eghm> ya, i hear ya
[20:35:28] <Clackwell> (weird complete-word-typo)
[20:35:35] <bpalmer> do hooligans kill people? I thought it was just property destruction
[20:35:56] <eghm> i can see the software making the same claim
[20:35:57] <Loodwig> I thought it was some other nation colquialism, being called that is.
[20:36:12] <Clackwell> bpalmer: hooligans nearly killed a frech police man, stomped on his head. he survived with severe brain trauma.
[20:36:18] <eghm> illega to resell to keep it out of the hands of black hats
[20:36:20] <Clackwell> that's the last excess that i recall.
[20:36:29] <bpalmer> oof
[20:36:36] <kosh[0]> can someone look at this, right at the bottom, with the serverOutput, it's not outputting a text area 5 rows high
[20:36:37] <kosh[0]> http://pastebin.com/411273
[20:36:52] <slava> kosh[0]: learn to solve problems on your own
[20:37:00] <kosh[0]> slava: shh
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[20:39:22] <Loodwig> looks like I have a lot of reading to do... ttyl.  And thanks for pointing me in the right direction
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[20:42:52] <SinPi> Hello again. Problem still persists: a signed applet has enough permissions to show a FileChooser, but apparently not enough to access local files. Any idea why?
[20:43:32] <bpalmer> have you given it full permissions?
[20:43:34] <eghm> been a while, but don't u also have to define the security policy
[20:44:01] <ernimril> ~tell eghm about aolbonics
[20:44:01] <javabot> eghm, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
[20:44:13] <SinPi> do I define the permissions in the signature somehow, or in the code?
[20:44:26] <fevoldj2> If I have a variable defined within a while loop, how do I use it outside of that loop?
[20:44:28] <ernimril> SinPi: normally in a policy file
[20:44:39] <ernimril> fevoldj2: you do not
[20:44:45] <fevoldj2> There's no way?
[20:44:47] <eghm> what about typos?
[20:44:53] <bpalmer> fevoldj2: it's simply out of scope
[20:44:59] <SinPi> define it earlier, and be done with it, fevoldj2
[20:45:06] <bpalmer> you have to change your program one way or the other to expand the scope
[20:45:20] <bpalmer> (or to restrict the scope required, or...)
[20:45:21] <fevoldj2> I'm working with try\catch blocks and I want that section to start over if there is an error.
[20:45:29] <bpalmer> fevoldj2: yeah, that's a pain
[20:45:42] <fevoldj2> Yeah I'm finding that out.
[20:46:06] <fevoldj2> I haven't worked with many languages, but this is byfar the most difficult error handling solution I have come across.
[20:46:08] <SinPi> my permission file has   grant { permission java.security.AllPermission;
[20:46:13] <bpalmer> as usual, I wish java's exception-handling had some more features
[20:46:18] <fevoldj2> yeah
[20:46:32] <fevoldj2> There's got to be an alternate way for me to do this, but I'm not seeing it.
[20:46:51] <fevoldj2> I could start the whole program again, but that defeats the purpose.
[20:47:02] <defcon8> can you design guis in netbeans?
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[20:48:50] <defcon8> 	public static void main(String argv[]) {
[20:48:50] <defcon8> 		System.out.println(argv);
[20:48:54] <defcon8> and why isnt that working?
[20:49:31] <shredstar> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1593760531/ref%3Dnosim/nationalreviewon/104-4846708-2319102
[20:49:50] <ernimril> ~tell defcon8 about does not work
[20:49:50] <javabot> defcon8, does not work is useless.  Tell us what it is, what you want it to do, and what it is doing.
[20:50:07] <defcon8> i want it to print the arguments given from the command line
[20:50:34] <ernimril> defcon8: and what makes you think that your code should work?
[20:50:52] <eghm> move ur [] to after the string
[20:51:01] <eghm> String[] argv
[20:51:04] <defcon8> oh yeah
[20:51:06] <defcon8> sorry
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[20:51:38] <ernimril> defcon8: "System.out.println (Arrays.asList(argv)); " will almost give you what you want...
[20:51:46] <defcon8> defcon8@ubuntu:~/java$ /usr/java/jdk1.5.0_05/bin/java Args hello
[20:51:46] <defcon8> [Ljava.lang.String;@10b62c9
[20:51:51] <defcon8> ahh ok
[20:51:57] <defcon8> thanks
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[20:52:12] <ernimril> defcon8: the [L... is correct and in some cases that is what you want...
[20:52:20] <timing> Hey is there a free (as in speech) jdk for java?
[20:52:24] <fevoldj2> Is there a way to begin again after a try\catch block without a while loop?
[20:52:26] <eghm> and that is gonna print out the memory location of the String aray
[20:52:31] <timing> and runtime environment?
[20:52:34] <defcon8> timing, blackdown
[20:52:36] <defcon8> isnt it?
[20:52:43] <ernimril> timing: not really...
[20:52:54] <ernimril> timing: gcj, kaffe, classpath project, ...
[20:52:56] <defcon8> location: class Args
[20:52:56] <defcon8>                 System.out.println(Arrays.asList(argv));
[20:53:10] <defcon8> cannot find sumbol. what clas do i need to import?
[20:53:11] <ernimril> timing: they do not work well with java/5 and they do not have the full api
[20:53:32] <ernimril> defcon8: search the api if you have to...
[20:53:44] <eghm> or get an ide that does the imports for you
[20:54:18] <defcon8> im just using a plain editopr
[20:54:27] <defcon8> dont have the ram for ides
[20:54:28] <eghm> i can tell
[20:54:31] <eghm> bummer
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[20:54:41] <defcon8> 256mb sdram
[20:55:07] <eghm> what is your dev env?
[20:55:32] <defcon8> ubuntu linux
[20:55:35] <timing> okay thanks!
[20:55:35] <ernimril> you do not want an ide until you know your way around java...
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[20:56:08] <defcon8> yes
[20:56:15] <defcon8> im still wondering why Arrays isnt working
[20:56:22] <defcon8> iev looked on http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/data/example/ArrayDemo.java
[20:56:37] <defcon8> but that doesnt use the Arrays class
[20:57:01] <ernimril> defcon8: use the javadoc and search there...
[20:57:03] <ernimril> ~api
[20:57:04] <javabot> ernimril, api is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/index.html
[20:57:20] <eghm> array not Array
[20:57:43] <ernimril> no, I said "Arrays" and that is what I mean
[20:57:49] <eghm> u need the loop
[20:58:02] <ernimril> ~tell eghm about aolbonics
[20:58:02] <javabot> eghm, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
[20:58:09] <eghm> i get the hint
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[20:59:37] <defcon8> wow it works :D
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[21:02:33] <defcon8> is there a lexical orderer in the java api?
[21:03:06] <ernimril> defcon8: String have a natural order, so you just sort them
[21:03:36] <ernimril> defcon8: you can use a Collator if you really have to
[21:04:12] <defcon8> ok
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[21:05:32] <yel> hello everyone!
[21:05:39] <ernimril> hello yel
[21:05:45] <defcon8> hello
[21:06:01] <yel> im getting this error message while i were testing some jstl : org.apache.jasper.JasperException: /demo.jsp(11,10) According to TLD or attribute directive in tag file, attribute value does not accept any expressions
[21:06:09] <defcon8> ernimril, what does olof mean?
[21:06:24] <yel> can somone of you guys clarify it for me please!
[21:06:27] <ernimril> defcon8: ?
[21:06:36] <defcon8> your surname ernimril
[21:06:53] <ernimril> defcon8: oh, that is just a name
[21:07:00] <defcon8> ok
[21:07:16] <d03boy> ernimril, you should've given him some bullshit explanation :P
[21:07:19] <defcon8> all turkish names have a meaning
[21:08:25] <ernimril> defcon8: there is a meaning, "olof" is a name so read it as "olof's son" or son of olof... (as I said it is just a name..)
[21:08:39] <defcon8> yes
[21:09:00] <yel> merhaba ernimril !
[21:09:11] <defcon8> merhaba yel :)
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[21:09:22] <yel> ;)
[21:09:27] <defcon8> are you turkish yel?
[21:09:40] <yel> mhh originally yes
[21:09:48] <defcon8> ahh
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[21:12:13] <slava> firefox keeps crashing on os x. maybe one day, mac os will be as usable as linux
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[21:16:54] <Teckla> Does Swing have a built-in type which is basically a panel of buttons whose width are all the same?
[21:17:34] <Teckla> For example, I don't want: [OK] [Cancel]  But instead I want: [  OK  ] [Cancel]
[21:17:48] <Teckla> It's easy enough to do, I just want to make sure something built-in doesn't already exist.
[21:18:20] <cybereal> If anything exists to do that, it will be a layout manager
[21:18:40] <Teckla> Yeah, I'll use GridLayout if such a beastie doesn't already exist.
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[21:31:24] <mohadib> good morning
[21:32:25] <Geren> if i have an abstract class that implements an interface, is it necessary to provide implementations to ALL API's in the interface?
[21:32:36] <mohadib> yes
[21:32:51] <mohadib> all methods of n interface must be implimented
[21:34:10] <ernimril> Geren: you can make the class abstract, but you still have to tell that the unimplemented methods are abstract...
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[21:35:59] <Geren> hmm ic
[21:36:39] <Geren> can interfaces be put into packages
[21:36:42] <Geren> like classes
[21:36:59] <mohadib> yes
[21:37:00] <cybereal> Geren: of course
[21:37:01] <mohadib> tias
[21:37:05] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell Geren about aolbonics.
[21:37:05] <javabot> Geren, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
[21:37:14] <mohadib> and how many time do people have to tell you about aolbonics
[21:37:22] <Geren> sorry
[21:37:27] <mohadib> thats like the 100th time you have been warned
[21:37:35] <Geren> seroiusly though, why is that bad?
[21:37:45] <pr3d4t0r> Geren: Because it hurts our eyeballs.
[21:37:46] <Geren> i mean why are you guys so insistent about that?
[21:37:52] <mohadib> Geren: why is it bad to eat beef in india
[21:37:55] <mohadib> customs
[21:38:05] <pr3d4t0r> Geren: And one day you'll go asking for a job, probably programming in Java, and we want you to have good communication skills.
[21:38:09] <lunk> Geren: bill cosby says: it makes you look stupid.
[21:38:16] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: lunk++
[21:38:16] <javabot> lunk has a karma level of 6, pr3d4t0r
[21:38:20] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: lunk++
[21:38:20] <javabot> lunk has a karma level of 7, pr3d4t0r
[21:38:26] <Amnesiac> hey pr3d4t0r
[21:38:32] <pr3d4t0r> lunk: Two, because you've been around long enough :)
[21:38:35] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Hej.
[21:38:39] <lunk> \o/
[21:38:44] <Amnesiac> what's new pr3d4t0r
[21:38:51] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Busy.
[21:38:54] <lunk> nice aolbonics named pr3d ;)
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[21:38:58] <lunk> ziing
[21:39:04] <Amnesiac> pr3d4t0r, yuck :/
[21:39:21] <pr3d4t0r> lunk: Don't confuse aolbonics with 31337 sp33|<.
[21:39:27] <lunk> lol
[21:39:31] <lunk> k
[21:39:37] <pr3d4t0r> lunk: Aolbonics == retarded; 31337 == pretentious prick.
[21:39:44] <lunk> hahaha
[21:39:53] <lunk> game back from commerical, afk
[21:40:15] <Drone> That URL gave the following error: java.net.ConnectException, Connection timed out
[21:40:36] <Clackwell> Drone: yeah...;)
[21:40:38] <mohadib> :/
[21:40:46] <mohadib> what url
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[21:43:04] <cybereal> the user friendly comic from the aolbonics factoid
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[21:43:38] <mohadib> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
[21:43:55] <mohadib> i dont that was it
[21:44:05] <pr3d4t0r> Hrm... I'll have to photoshop Shanna's Dorothy photo a bit.  Her body and face are a bit out of focus.
[21:44:17] <cybereal> mohadib: it was the only url
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[21:45:32] <Geren> if i have a class Foo, and a subclass B that extends Foo and implements Foo2.
[21:45:38] <Geren> is Foo2 on the same level as Foo?
[21:46:32] <pr3d4t0r> Geren: No.
[21:46:48] <Drone> That URL gave the following error: java.net.ConnectException, Connection timed out
[21:46:53] <mohadib> heh
[21:47:01] <pr3d4t0r> Geren: Interfaces are not in the class hierarchy; they're in their own interface hierarchy.
[21:47:06] <pr3d4t0r> ...
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[21:47:49] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Test.  Let's see if Drone thinks that anything with a ":" is a URI.
[21:48:01] <mohadib> http:
[21:48:14] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Oh, I see; User Friendly.  Ne'er mind.
[21:48:33] <Geren> pr3d4t0r, ok. Then if i do Foo a= new Bar(); and then do ((Foo2)a).someMethod_in_the_interface()
[21:48:36] <Geren> that's allowed
[21:48:37] <mohadib> but that url worked for me?
[21:48:50] <Geren> even though a is of the type Foo, which is not in the same hierarchy as Foo2, which is an interface
[21:48:56] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: LOL
[21:49:04] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Drone is constipated.
[21:49:08] <mohadib> hehe
[21:49:17] * mohadib -> food
[21:49:25] <pr3d4t0r> Geren: Yes.
[21:49:29] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r
[21:49:42] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Dude, your OOP kung fu sucks.
[21:49:53] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: If you're OOP, it should be mohadib <-- food.
[21:50:09] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: That way, it looks like you're turning into food (yuk!).
[21:50:19] <cybereal> mohadib: welcome to the internet
[21:50:45] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: ping
[21:50:47] <pr3d4t0r> http://eugeneciurana.com/personal/images/Dorothy.JPG
[21:50:49] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: Pong.
[21:50:53] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: ^^^^
[21:50:55] <Geren> pr3d4t0r, why is that?
[21:51:04] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell Geren about interfaces
[21:51:04] <javabot> Geren, interfaces is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/interpack/createinterface.html
[21:51:38] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: I think she's trying to tell me something.  She called yesterday to say she wants to get back together.  Decisions, decisions...
[21:51:46] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: Anyway, what's up?
[21:52:22] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: nada, you were talking about the firewall.rc script?
[21:52:27] <pr3d4t0r> Hrm... someone's looking at the Sushi HOWTO form a Microsoft Media Center... weird.
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[21:52:41] <kinabalu> hrmm .. should expiration date be integers?  or strings... decisions, decisions
[21:52:52] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: Integers.
[21:52:59] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: Or rather, long integers.
[21:53:11] <bbtech> Can someone point me in the right direction with a quickhull method I'm trying to write... http://batie.com/ConvexHull.java
[21:53:18] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: Then you can convert to utime and calculate seamlessly.
[21:53:37] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: Just ensure that you don't put your name on that code.
[21:53:52] <bbtech> The methods that are giving me trouble are "QuickHull" and "extremePoints"
[21:53:53] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: utime?  tf is that ... these are cc# expiration dates ..
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[21:53:59] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: You don't want anybody coming to get you out of bed on a sunny 2038 morning to tell you to fix the code.
[21:54:11] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: Universal Unix Time.
[21:54:32] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: Number of seconds since 1.Jan.1970 at midnight.
[21:54:33] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: i do hope i'll retire by then ..
[21:54:37] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: :)
[21:54:50] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: so I'll have one of my minions fix it then
[21:54:56] <kinabalu> OMG, 2038 the world is going to end!
[21:54:56] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: He, he, he...
[21:55:00] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: Yup.
[21:55:06] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: The real Y2K is coming.
[21:56:27] <kinabalu> 2000 was only the beginning!
[21:56:29] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: Anyway, I may extricate the configuration parameters for firewall.rc and put them in /etc/logcop.firewall
[21:56:43] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: Right now they're in-lined with the rest of the script.
[21:56:47] <kinabalu> oh man .. i drove by a dealership with one of those electronic billboards ...
[21:56:48] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: What do you think?
[21:56:57] <kinabalu> and it said they had 10,0000 new cars!
[21:57:11] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: sounds like a nice plan ... i say go for it .. all configured in the same place?
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[21:57:34] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: Yeah.
[21:57:57] <kinabalu> 10,0000 new cars!
[21:58:07] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: That way you can put the scripts in /usr/local/bin or /usr/local/sbin or wherever, and edit the firewall rules/LogCop lists independently of the code.
[21:58:07] <shredstar> Any plan that involves extrication has got to be a good one.
[21:58:24] <pr3d4t0r> shredstar: http://www.sourceforge.net/logcop
[21:58:26] <Drone> That URL gave the following error code: 404 Not Found
[21:58:32] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: right, putting in /etc for config, and bin for executables .. makes sense
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[21:59:33] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: I'm also thinking of making lcscrub more sophisticated so that it can run from cron.
[22:00:01] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: It should fetch the names from the /var/log/whatever and then add them to /etc/logcop.conf, then scrub it, etc.
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[22:00:26] <Clackwell> http://sourceforge.net/new/
[22:00:27] <pr3d4t0r> shredstar: He, he, he... sorry:  http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/logcop
[22:00:29] <Clackwell> oops
[22:00:39] <pr3d4t0r> My bad.
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[22:01:18] <pr3d4t0r> :(
[22:01:20] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r
[22:01:36] <Clackwell> good night
[22:01:42] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: that would be very helpful.
[22:02:21] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: You should learn some awk too ;)
[22:02:35] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: You'll find it very powerful, yet a lot easier to deal with than Perl.
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[22:03:00] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: The firewall.rc is all bash anyway.
[22:03:18] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: The open ports list will become a bash array.  The syntax for those is nasty.
[22:04:19] <pr3d4t0r> He, he, he...
[22:04:21] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: Oct 30 12:13:22 lavender sshd(pam_unix)[12319]: authentication failure; logname= uid=0 euid=0 tty=NODEVssh ruser= rhost=203.252.65.71  user=rootOct 30 12:13:25 lavender LogCop: root attempt - banning: 203.252.65.71
[22:04:37] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: From a few minutes ago.  First one this week.
[22:04:44] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: i know, first mock objects, then awk
[22:04:52] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: w00t!
[22:04:53] <Geren> a static methods can only access other static methods/fields within the same class.
[22:04:56] <pr3d4t0r> OKi, I'm going back to work.
[22:05:02] * pr3d4t0r left.
[22:05:13] <Geren> but a non-static methods can access BOTH static and non-static methods/fields within the same class, right???
[22:05:48] <cybereal> Geren: obviously
[22:05:53] <Geren> why is it obvious??
[22:06:03] <cybereal> Because everything can access a static method of a class
[22:06:11] <cybereal> so of course that class's methods can also access it
[22:06:16] <cybereal> that non static ones i mean
[22:06:47] <Geren> right
[22:07:16] <cybereal> It's sorta like asking "If everyone is allowed to have a donut, is Bob also allowed to have a donut?"
[22:08:08] <znoG> maybe Bob has had enough donuts and is excluded from the "everyone" group ;)
[22:09:13] <bbtech> Can someone point me in the right direction with a quickhull method I'm trying to write... http://batie.com/ConvexHull.java
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[22:10:57] <znoG> pr3d4t0r: you're writing LogCop?
[22:12:12] <bpalmer> cybereal: typical non-monotonic logic there
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[22:14:54] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: Yeah.
[22:15:02] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: kinabalu and Lars_G are helping/testing.
[22:15:21] * bbtech passes out
[22:15:21] <cybereal> bpalmer: you're a slow contrarian
[22:15:59] <bpalmer> cybereal: logic is hard
[22:17:05] <znoG> pr3d4t0r: what are you coding it in?
[22:17:39] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: awk.
[22:18:11] <znoG> i might join in on the testing
[22:18:20] <znoG> if allowed :)
[22:18:34] <znoG> keep those annoying people out who keep trying to ssh in
[22:18:43] <shredstar> Anyone here run a blog?
[22:18:54] <slava> yes
[22:19:02] * bpalmer wonders if the next line will be, "You'd better go catch it then!"
[22:19:58] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: Of course!
[22:20:20] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: The code is production-ready.  I've been running it for a year, kinabalu and Lars_G for a couple of months.
[22:20:29] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: It's just not documented for "the masses" :)
[22:20:37] <slava> hard not to be production ready with a 10 line awk script :)
[22:20:40] <znoG> that's fine, i'm not part of the masses ;)
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[22:21:10] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: If you give me your email address, I'll email you the package as-is.  We're documenting it, adding licensing infos, etc. in the SourceForge repository ;)
[22:21:28] <znoG> pr3d4t0r: sounds good :)
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[22:23:43] <riffraff> hi
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[22:24:38] <riffraff> I was wondering if there is a builtin method in 1.4.2 to create a List starting from an array of basic types (not Object[]), someone has a suggestion?
[22:25:01] <slava> no there isn't
[22:25:36] <riffraff> eh, I got this impression, thanks
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[22:26:49] <znoG> ok so the default access control for Java is that any class in the same package can access the variable/method... what exactly does it mean in the same "Package" ?
[22:26:54] <znoG> as in .. Object is a package?
[22:26:58] <slava> no
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[22:27:03] <slava> read the tutorial on packages
[22:27:03] <znoG> no.. it would be talking about java.* wouldn't it
[22:27:12] <slava> java.lang.Object is in the java.lang package
[22:27:27] <znoG> right
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[22:32:02] <cowbud> is there a method in the java api that will allow me to get the last time an Object was accessed?
[22:32:12] <slava> no, that would be absurd
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[22:32:44] <cowbud> why would that be absurd?
[22:32:46] <slava> only a language like python would do something as dumb as keep a timestamp for each object, and deal with the overhead of updating it on every access...
[22:32:53] <slava> getting a timestamp involves a system clal
[22:35:08] <keyhack> and system calls call for context switches
[22:35:10] <keyhack> which are evil
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[22:37:16] <cybereal> cowbud: what would be the usefulness of that anyway?
[22:37:26] <keyhack> cowbud: Why would you want to do that anyways? Re-think it and then find another means to achieve what you are looking for
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[22:38:32] <pundai> wtf why do i have to register
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[22:39:48] <primitiveworker> i have a 4.5 license--can i still download 4.5 anywhere?  i don't want to have to buy an upgrade license just because i neglected to keep the 4.5 installer.. phooey./
[22:39:55] <primitiveworker> oh yeah, i'm talking about IDEA
[22:40:13] <pundai> ask idea
[22:40:49] <primitiveworker> thought maybe someone in here had a similar situation.  will do.
[22:41:19] <pundai> i use eclipse, i wonder how better/worse intellij s than eclipse
[22:41:30] <slava> intellij is a 400$ workaround for java design flaws
[22:41:46] <pundai> ah
[22:41:54] <pundai> hi slava
[22:42:00] <pundai> hows the c0dingz going
[22:42:10] <pundai> im happy with eclipse
[22:42:19] <pundai> though i havent figured out how to do a split window for a single document yet
[22:42:29] <slava> that's the most basic feature...
[22:42:34] <pundai> i know
[22:42:35] <slava> more important than XML bean generation and other junk eclipse does
[22:42:38] <pundai> :S
[22:42:39] <pundai> yeah
[22:42:55] <slava> does eclipse have an oursourcing wizard?
[22:43:01] <slava> i hear IDEA has one
[22:43:04] <pundai> whats with you and outsourcing
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[22:43:18] <slava> i'm just trying to leverage my assets and achieve greater ROI
[22:43:36] <pundai> oh
[22:43:38] <pundai> in that case, me too
[22:43:44] <pundai> i only have about 25K in assets though
[22:43:46] <pundai> sniffles
[22:43:54] <pundai> and 5K is in front of me
[22:43:55] <pundai> doh
[22:44:51] <primitiveworker> i chose idea over eclipse because of the vim plugin maturity.  now eclipse's viPlugin is mature enough that i might consider using eclipse for java again.  (radrails.org turned me onto eclipse again.)
[22:45:10] <pundai> slava, is factor interpreted
[22:45:11] <slava> nothing beats the productivity of the eclipse outsourcing wizard
[22:45:23] <slava> i can click some buttons and my web app is already written for 5$ an hour
[22:45:25] <primitiveworker> the links to old versions of idea are in the knowledge base on the intellij site, btw if anyone cares.
[22:45:28] <slava> pundai: compiled
[22:45:50] <pundai> slava, do you have an IL
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[22:45:55] <slava> what is an IL?
[22:46:07] <pundai> il = intermediate language
[22:46:35] <Stork> what's the default TcpDelay on a socket?
[22:46:43] <pundai> did you write your own stuff to generate code is what i eventually meant to ask
[22:46:43] <Stork> i mean
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[22:46:52] <Stork> the value for setNoTcpDelay
[22:46:55] <slava> pundai: i generate machine code
[22:47:27] <pundai> slava, doesnt factor run on more than one system
[22:47:34] <Stork> shit, i have to do some thread work! NOOOO
[22:47:37] <slava> yes, it runs on x86 and powerpc, with various oses
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[22:47:56] <pundai> so do you have an intermediate representation
[22:48:17] <slava> not like class files or net assemblies, no
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[22:48:39] <slava> there's either source code or compiled machine code
[22:49:12] <pundai> source => tokenize => grammar => ??? => code how do you go from your grammar to code
[22:49:23] <slava> there's two intermediate reprensetations used by the compiler but they are not saved to disk
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[22:49:36] <pundai> slava, is it an ast based representation
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[22:49:55] <slava> ast => dataflow graph => basic blocks => machine code
[22:50:06] <pundai> k
[22:50:17] <pundai> just making sure i'm on the right track
[22:50:17] <pundai> tx
[22:50:28] <pundai> ~tell pundai about aolbonics
[22:50:29] <javabot> pundai, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
[22:50:32] <pundai> no need
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[22:50:34] <pundai> :)
[22:51:25] <jess-2> hello, i have to write an aplication on Jess, somebody have experiencie with these languaje, or examples.
[22:51:37] <jess-2> this is a language for ia
[22:51:42] <Stork> it's time for me to get owned by Threads
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[22:52:03] <znoG> protected and public variables/methods are inherited by subclasses, right?
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[22:52:39] <jess-2> ups
[22:52:53] <pundai> man this fucking language has eight ways to write a simple do loop
[22:52:57] * pundai bangs head on spikes
[22:53:22] <jess-2> i have a homework to do!
[22:53:24] <jess-2> =(
[22:53:36] <pundai> so ask your classmates
[22:53:41] <pundai> whats jess anyway
[22:53:49] <Stork> what's a daemon thread?
[22:53:49] <pundai> java except stupid statements?
[22:54:01] <jess-2> mmmm
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[22:54:25] <jess-2> the funcking teacher dont have idea
[22:54:35] <Stork> ~threads
[22:54:36] <javabot> Stork, threads is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/essential/threads
[22:54:40] <jess-2> =(
[22:55:37] <pundai> jess-2, change schools
[22:56:20] <jess-2> :(
[22:56:50] <jess-2> i don't have money :(
[22:56:58] <pundai> OMG OMG GOOGLE IS DOWN \o/
[22:57:03] <jess-2> i need examples of fucking JESS
[22:57:23] <pundai> use google
[22:57:24] <bpalmer> jess-2: *blink* I'm sure there are porn-specific search engines you could use
[22:57:26] <omoore> google isn't down
[22:57:35] <pundai> bpalmer, !!
[22:57:53] 
[22:57:56] <Stork> bpalmer, what the hell is one of those!
[22:58:00] <pundai> omoore, it is for me
[22:58:07] <pundai> Stork, booble.com i think
[22:58:26] <bpalmer> Stork: every other industry has specific search engines, why on earth wouldn't porn?
[22:58:31] <omoore> pundai, that's so sad :(
[22:58:45] <Stork> mmn, i misread
[22:58:47] <pundai> omoore, whats sad
[22:58:54] <Stork> i thought you said non-porn-specific
[22:59:03] <omoore> pundai, that it's down fo ryou
[22:59:21] <pundai> omoore :P
[23:00:15] <bpalmer> Stork: ah, google on safe-search, presumably
[23:01:17] <jess-2> and?
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[23:10:51] <Stork> can a class be sychronized?
[23:11:12] <Stork> i'm incredibly confused with these threads :\
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[23:13:11] <Stork> i'll look at pircbot for an example
[23:13:21] <pundai> or rtm
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[23:17:42] <d03boy> i used pircbot as an example
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[23:20:03] <Stork> okay, threads are confusing
[23:20:37] <cybereal> Stork: then don't use them
[23:20:43] <Stork> have to, really
[23:20:50] <cybereal> Are you using swing?
[23:20:54] <Stork> i'm writing a server for a game. i don't see any way around it
[23:20:58] <Stork> no, no gui involved
[23:21:02] <yel> vinse, hi there
[23:21:02] <cybereal> Games usually don't use threads
[23:21:21] <Stork> this one is excessively complicated
[23:21:42] <cybereal> How is it any more complicated than any of the popular 3d shooters or whatnot out there?  They don't use threads.
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[23:22:00] <Stork> this one needs a server..
[23:22:01] <pundai> enemy territory uses threads
[23:22:11] <cybereal> pundai: prove it
[23:22:22] <d03boy> doom3 uses threads i think
[23:22:24] <cybereal> Stork: learn about asynchronous programmer, and state machines
[23:22:31] <Stork> anyway, what i need to do
[23:22:36] <cybereal> !s/mmer/mming/
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[23:22:36] <Drone> cybereal: Stork: learn about asynchronous programming, and state machines
[23:22:39] <pundai> cybereal, i should say i thik it does
[23:22:40] <ayrnieu> omg <sneer>prove it</sneer>
[23:22:52] <pundai> google is down so i am in trouble
[23:22:55] <ayrnieu> prooooooooooooove it.
[23:22:59] <ayrnieu> *headdesk*
[23:23:03] <cybereal> Hm can ET run in a window?
[23:23:08] <Stork> i'll do it myself then
[23:23:18] <cybereal> pundai: google isn't down
[23:23:19] <Stork> guesswork is key
[23:23:38] <pundai> cybereal, its still down for me
[23:23:46] <cybereal> pundai: you may not have access to it, but it's not down
[23:23:48] <pundai> cybereal, yeah it can if you set the resolution to such that it can't fit or something
[23:24:15] * cybereal plays ET almost every day
[23:24:21] <pundai> ditto
[23:24:35] <cybereal> ah it has a fullscreen switch
[23:25:22] <pundai> it does?!!!!!!!111111
[23:25:26] <pundai> cybereal, are you on windows
[23:25:33] <cybereal> pundai: it's the same on windows & linux
[23:25:43] <cybereal> pundai: Fullscreen: Yes/No in System
[23:25:46] <pundai> cybereal, how do i do it
[23:25:50] <pundai> cybereal, ohes
[23:25:52] * pundai tries
[23:26:39] <cybereal> And you're right, it's running with 4 threads, I wonder wtf for, games rarely benefit from multithreading, I wonder if Quake 3 uses threading
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[23:27:37] <pundai> cybereal, how do i bring my focus outside the et window when fullscreen is off
[23:28:07] <cybereal> pundai: I hit the windows key, dunno how you'll do it if you're not on windows
[23:28:22] <pundai> DAMN
[23:28:47] <cybereal> in q3a going into the console releases the mouse
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[23:29:17] <pundai> hm
[23:29:32] <pundai> same as et
[23:29:32] <cybereal> q3a has 6 running... I'm gonna have to check out that source
[23:29:36] <pundai> frickin sweet
[23:29:46] <pundai> dude, thanks for teaching me about fullscreen
[23:29:49] <pundai> this has saved my life
[23:31:34] <cybereal> why?
[23:32:02] <pundai> danmn
[23:32:06] <pundai> it doesnt work while you're in the game
[23:32:19] <pundai> cybereal, im not sure
[23:32:19] <cybereal> What doesn't, releasing mouse focus?
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[23:32:23] <pundai> yeaeh
[23:32:28] <pundai> it works if im at the main menu
[23:32:43] <pundai> see now im in the main menu
[23:32:46] <pundai> lemme start a game
[23:33:20] <pundai> oh ok
[23:33:22] <pundai> its working
[23:33:28] <pundai> i mustve doen something wong last time :)
[23:33:31] <cybereal> works for me in game
[23:33:57] <pundai> yeah its working
[23:34:37] <pundai> damn, boss just came in
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[23:36:11] <ijoyce> haha
[23:36:23] <ijoyce> somone is cleaning out their desk
[23:36:46] <Stork> how funny!
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[23:40:22] <Stork> i don't understand thread sychronization
[23:41:14] <ijoyce> is that your attempt at asking a question?
[23:41:35] <Stork> haha, yes, yes it is
[23:41:57] <Stork> well erm
[23:42:15] <Stork> i have two subclasses, to handle input and output
[23:42:32] <Stork> i need to make the outputthread wait until i recieve some input#
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[23:43:22] <mike8901> is it possible to call a wait() function in a non-threaded application?
[23:43:36] <Stork> sure, but it'd be a stupid ideas
[23:43:38] <mike8901> basically, in my main function, I have code like this:
[23:43:42] <mike8901> while(true){
[23:43:47] <Stork> ~tell mike8901 about paste
[23:43:48] <javabot> mike8901, Paste your code, preferably a test case, any errors, and any other relevant information into the pastebin and tell us the URL: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin
[23:43:48] <mike8901> mymethod();
[23:43:52] <mike8901> ok
[23:43:57] <mike8901> sorry
[23:43:58] <Stork> saved your life
[23:44:53] <mike8901> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8632
[23:45:17] <mike8901> err, and instead of mymethod, it's classinstance.mymethod();
[23:45:49] <mike8901> I tried doing classinstance.wait(), but that throws a Exception in thread "main" java.lang.IllegalMonitorStateException: current thread not owner
[23:46:00] <slava> read the tutorial
[23:46:13] <Stork> i read the tutorial, it didn't help all that much
[23:46:14] <mike8901> which tutorial?
[23:46:18] <Stork> ~threads
[23:46:18] <javabot> Stork, threads is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/essential/threads
[23:48:06] <mike8901> slava: were you talking to me?
[23:48:10] <slava> yes
[23:48:31] <mike8901> which tutorial were you refering to?
[23:48:35] <mike8901> the big index?
[23:48:45] <slava> the threads tutorial
[23:48:45] <mike8901> or the one stork pointed out?
[23:48:52] <slava> jeez just read it already
[23:48:55] <mike8901> err... I don't want my program to be threaded...
[23:49:05] <mohadib> slava: not everyone has flossing skillz like you
[23:49:08] <mohadib> be patient
[23:50:46] <slava> mike8901: then why are you using wait()?
[23:50:47] <mohadib> man sunday must be "WalMart Day" in New Mexico
[23:50:57] <slava> did you read what it does or did you just see it show up in your IDEs completion window?
[23:51:06] <mohadib> every fuck for 30 miles in any direction is there buying cheap ass crap
[23:51:20] <ijoyce> mohadib, including you?
[23:51:38] <mohadib> ijoyce: i needed lanudry liquid
[23:51:46] <mohadib> it took me 30 minutes to get it and check out
[23:51:48] <ijoyce> walmart is evil
[23:51:51] <mohadib> yes
[23:52:00] <mohadib> but... :)
[23:52:09] <mohadib> i did get a Napoleon Dynamite poster
[23:52:11] <mohadib> SWEET!
[23:52:17] * ijoyce sighs
[23:52:20] <d03boy> friggin awesome
[23:52:20] <ijoyce> hehe
[23:52:26] * mohadib feels guiity
[23:52:28] <ijoyce> gawd
[23:52:31] <mohadib> javabot: d03boy++
[23:52:31] <javabot> d03boy has a karma level of 4, mohadib
[23:52:34] <ijoyce> you're such as idiot
[23:52:40] <mohadib> ahaha
[23:53:28] <mohadib> i saw no less than 10 napoleons last night at haloween parties
[23:53:45] <mohadib> and a few Debs , and Rex!!
[23:54:17] <ijoyce> I saw alot of pirates
[23:54:25] <mohadib> "You think anyone wants a round house to the head while im wearing these bad boys"
[23:54:45] <mohadib> ;)
[23:54:52] <d03boy> i stayed in the dorm because i'm a loser
[23:54:59] <mohadib> :\
[23:55:17] <slava> i was programming all night
[23:55:35] <slava> fuck haloween parties, i'd rather kick back with a fat doob
[23:55:39] <d03boy> so was I, but I still would've left if I had something to do
[23:55:44] <mohadib> i went to parties , then took my GF to a prive tub at 10,000 waves http://www.tenthousandwaves.com/
[23:55:53] * mohadib is a pimp
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[23:56:01] <tomaczec> hi
[23:56:16] <d03boy> mohadib, how long did you stay?
[23:56:33] <mohadib> only 1 hour - $110
[23:56:42] <ijoyce> mohadib, is that the only place big enough to clean her off in?
[23:56:47] <mohadib> lolol
[23:56:47] <d03boy> nice
[23:57:05] <slava> mohadib: jesus, that's like... an ounce
[23:57:06] <mohadib> ijoyce: well , most of the time i just use the water hose imn the backyard
[23:57:13] <ijoyce> does the 110 include forklift rental?
[23:57:15] <mohadib> slava: pimpn at cheap
[23:57:33] <mohadib> ijoyce: no , but i had some bug sumo guys helping me out
[23:57:34] <ijoyce> i kid, i kid
[23:57:39] <mohadib> ;)
[23:59:56] <slava> mohadib: did you drive her there with your pinto with platinum curb feelers