October 27, 2005 
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October 27, 2005 NOTICE: This channel is no longer actively logged.
[00:00:03] *** joered has quit IRC[00:00:20] <Stork> <3 the javabot[00:01:40] *** Bevin has quit IRC[00:04:01] *** RaspberryAle has quit IRC[00:05:07] *** tomaczec has left ##java[00:05:59] *** chippy has quit IRC[00:07:56] *** vincenz has quit IRC[00:08:07] *** Jax has joined ##java[00:08:14] <Jax> ~tell jax about GUI[00:08:14] <javabot> jax, I guess the factoid 'codeguide' might be appropriate:[00:08:16] <javabot> jax, codeguide is http://www.omnicore.com/index.htm[00:08:51] *** n0b0dY has joined ##java[00:08:55] <n0b0dY> sup[00:09:07] <n0b0dY> is there any guide on network programming with java? transfering files etc?[00:12:10] *** Jax has quit IRC[00:12:20] <Stork> n0b0dY: http://www.ddrheaven.com/Tutorials/java.asp[00:12:27] <Stork> there's a good place to start[00:12:36] <Stork> also, to talk about general networking, #networking[00:12:42] *** agnul has quit IRC[00:12:54] <n0b0dY> thx[00:13:09] <Stork> ~tell n0b0dY about aolbonics[00:13:10] <javabot> n0b0dY, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201[00:13:52] <Stork> holy mother of god[00:13:56] <Stork> i have the best idea ever[00:14:21] *** mheath has quit IRC[00:14:28] *** mheath has joined ##java[00:14:51] <RedGlow> found... I didn't know I have to explicitely flush() the stream to output the data -_-[00:14:51] *** Stork has quit IRC[00:14:52] <n0b0dY> sorry stork[00:15:13] *** Stork has joined ##java[00:18:46] *** alamar has quit IRC[00:19:32] <rogue-kun{B}|Awa> Is it possible to add an item to a JList after it's been created?[00:19:33] *** rogue-kun{B}|Awa is now known as rogue-kun{B}[00:19:50] *** bauerbob has quit IRC[00:22:14] <keyhack> Any ideas on why ResultSet.getString("COLUMN"); would throws: java.sql.SQLException: Bad format for Time '2983:26:59' in column 9[00:22:56] <keyhack> When I run the query by hand in a query window, I see the row fine, so it's not really a SQLException[00:23:28] <keyhack> It's not a time column either, its a created by: SEC_TO_TIME(unix_timestamp() - C.EVENT_TIMESTAMP)[00:25:40] *** piinyouri has joined ##java[00:25:40] <keyhack> I don't get by getString() is trying to parse it as a Time object, when I'm clearly calling getString(), lol[00:26:17] *** Blafasel has quit IRC[00:28:31] <keyhack> I have to use Blob.getBytes() into a new String() object, then I can get it back[00:28:37] <Terr1> When I create a jar file containing my system, I want a config file to lay in the dir that the jarfile is in as well and make the jar file able to access til file, but what PATH should I use from within the jar? it cant seem to open the file using "../file"[00:29:14] *** alesan has quit IRC[00:29:36] <ernimril> Terr1: getResourceAsStream[00:31:16] <piinyouri> Can someone help me with very simple java interafaces? http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/G1IiRq69.html[00:31:27] <piinyouri> I know its simple, I'm just new to java[00:31:55] *** scalar has joined ##java[00:32:01] <scalar> good afternoon[00:32:29] <ernimril> piinyouri: homework?[00:32:50] <scalar> I have a quick question: is there a pre-made Swing class for a dialog that just presents a message and an "Ok" button? I can only find one for Ok/Cancel, Yes/No, and Yes/No/Cancel[00:33:02] <piinyouri> yes, it is part of a longer assignment[00:33:04] <ernimril> scalar: JOptionPane?[00:33:13] <keyhack> No one else experience a problem with ResultSet.getString() trying to parse a string into a Time object if its of the form "xxx:xx:xx" ?[00:33:16] <ernimril> piinyouri: and the question is what?[00:33:21] <Terr1> ernimril, are you sure that getResourceAsStream can read a file outside the jar package? (fx a file in the same dir as the .jar) ?[00:33:33] *** MindZEye has quit IRC[00:33:40] <piinyouri> there is something wrong with the way I setup my interface and classes[00:34:00] <scalar> ernimril: the javadocs seem to suggest it can only do Yes/No and Yes/No/Cancel... " optionType - an integer designating the options available on the dialog: YES_NO_OPTION, or YES_NO_CANCEL_OPTION"[00:34:15] <ernimril> piinyouri: you do not present the errror[00:34:21] <piinyouri> one sec[00:34:46] <ernimril> scalar: showMessageDialgo[00:34:49] <ernimril> scalar: showMessageDialog[00:35:00] <scalar> ah, great. thanks[00:35:11] *** ayrnieu has quit IRC[00:35:34] <piinyouri> error: http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/AKH5Sy64.html[00:36:23] <ernimril> piinyouri: for starters: your main class is too damn long, 441+ lines for a simple assignment?[00:36:33] <piinyouri> the teacher wrote the main[00:36:39] <jwormy> typical teacher[00:36:40] <Stork> ~tell piinyouri about testcase[00:36:40] <javabot> piinyouri, testcase is a minimal independently runnable program, which demonstrates the problem; see http://www.physci.org/codes/sscce.jsp for details and a HOWTO[00:36:54] <ernimril> piinyouri: then I suggest that you get a new one[00:37:09] <piinyouri> a new main?[00:37:19] <ernimril> piinyouri: a new teacher[00:38:09] <ernimril> piinyouri: you have removed the code that breaks so it is hard to say what errors you make.[00:38:23] <ernimril> piinyouri: check out what javabot told you about testcase[00:38:55] <yel> hello everyone can anyone of you guys explain autoboxing for me please ?[00:39:08] *** scalar has left ##java[00:39:17] <ernimril> ~tell yel about autoboxing[00:39:17] <javabot> yel, autoboxing is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/language/autoboxing.html[00:39:25] <yel> thanks ernimril[00:39:28] <piinyouri> I know it has something to do with the way I setup my interface. My instructions are at the top of http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/G1IiRq69.html but its not working[00:39:37] <ernimril> yel: Integer i = 3; int j = someInteger;[00:39:38] <piinyouri> the main is just fine[00:39:49] *** Mazon is now known as mazon[00:41:21] *** shad0wcat has joined ##java[00:42:07] <piinyouri> from my understanding, Seq is extended by For and Fib. Now ForIt should implement the SeqIt for the For class and FibIt should implement the SeqIt interface for the Fib class.[00:42:21] *** amphiboid has quit IRC[00:42:27] <Towny> okay.. so is the only want to turn off loading external dtd is with a SAX parser?[00:43:01] <forsaken> I have a java function printing a really big ammount of text to a text file, and its chopping off the last couple hundred entries for some reason, anyone know why that might be?[00:43:50] <rogue-kun{B}> forsaken: you look condtion counts are off?[00:43:59] *** mrsolo has joined ##java[00:44:14] <forsaken> no[00:44:18] *** Kezzer has joined ##java[00:44:25] <ernimril> forsaken: not closing?[00:44:28] <tieTYT> question time[00:44:48] <forsaken> is there a place to post my code/[00:45:01] <ernimril> forsaken: did you read the topic?[00:45:05] <tieTYT> if i create an annonymous inner class with a public method that does not exist in the class on the left hand side, is there any way to call it?[00:45:17] <tieTYT> that method i mean[00:45:18] *** Ulgar has quit IRC[00:45:20] *** spektr has quit IRC[00:45:27] <ernimril> tieTYT: yes....[00:45:32] <tieTYT> how?[00:45:39] <ernimril> tieTYT: the other methods in that class may call it[00:45:50] <tieTYT> oh i mean from the outside[00:45:51] <tieTYT> yeah that i knew[00:45:53] <tieTYT> sorry[00:46:14] <ernimril> tieTYT: the container class knows about the inner class can can call the method[00:47:15] <tieTYT> let me write this up in pastebin[00:47:20] <Drone> View forsaken's post at: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8593[00:47:24] <forsaken> ^[00:48:33] <ernimril> forsaken: I asked you if you did not close the stream and you do not close...[00:48:54] <ernimril> forsaken: failing to close a file/stream will usually result in loss of data[00:48:57] <forsaken> doh[00:49:05] <forsaken> i closed another one and forgot that[00:49:08] <forsaken> *kicks himself*[00:49:19] <ernimril> forsaken: you want to call close() in a finally-block[00:49:30] <forsaken> yea[00:49:34] <forsaken> got that[00:49:35] <forsaken> thanks[00:49:40] * forsaken kicks himself again[00:49:53] <ernimril> forsaken: and silently doing "catch (Exception e){}" is really bad[00:50:02] <ernimril> forsaken: at least print the stacktrace[00:50:20] <forsaken> ok[00:51:24] *** ayrnieu has joined ##Java[00:51:43] *** Static_-X has quit IRC[00:51:43] <gverig> Anybody knows a good bytcode analyzer, just something that would make bytecode more readable[00:51:46] <gverig> ?[00:51:49] *** RedGlow has left ##java[00:51:55] <tieTYT> ernimril: http://pastebin.com/407238[00:52:11] <ernimril> gverig: havent used it, but bcel might be helpful[00:52:21] *** hadees has joined ##java[00:52:50] <ernimril> tieTYT: ah, then the answer is no, you can not do that.[00:52:56] <gverig> ernimril: isn't BCEL an API/implementation? I mean a tool, like a hex viewer or like a C++ disassembler[00:53:23] <tieTYT> ernimril: i didn't think so :)[00:53:41] <n0b0dY> do i have to make checks to see if the right number of bytes was sent through a socket to transfer files?[00:53:42] <tieTYT> ernimril: and there's nothing you could do to the outerclass that could make that call possible right?[00:54:32] <ernimril> tieTYT: no, not when you do it like that. You have to create a class and use it "SomeInnerClass sic = new SomeInnerClass(...)"[00:54:39] <ernimril> tieTYT: then you can call the methods[00:56:54] <piinyouri> alright, i fixed it[00:57:03] <piinyouri> thankfully[00:58:22] <tieTYT> alright thanks[01:00:51] *** srcerer has joined ##java[01:01:20] *** Coffman has quit IRC[01:08:13] *** teralaser has quit IRC[01:11:02] *** csaba has joined ##java[01:11:16] <csaba> Hi, is there a way to make a JFrame maximizable but NOT minimizable?[01:12:07] <Erica> yes, read the docs,[01:12:10] <Erica> I forget how[01:12:26] <Erica> ~JFrame[01:12:26] <csaba> I've found that there's such a method for JIntenalFrame... :([01:12:26] <javabot> Erica, JFrame is an extended version of java.awt.Frame that adds support for the JFC/Swing component architecture. See: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/javax/swing/JFrame.html[01:12:33] <csaba> but not for JFrame[01:14:00] *** sm9 has joined ##java[01:15:35] *** shad0wcat has quit IRC[01:15:50] *** d0gf has joined ##java[01:16:21] <csaba> ok another question... ks there a way to get the absolute position of the mouse pointer?[01:17:14] *** stefan has joined ##java[01:19:59] *** yel is now known as ries[01:21:49] *** dingo001 has quit IRC[01:22:48] <Terr1> If you application is inside a jar file and it downloads several files, you cant save them within the jarfile? you have to use TMP or something?[01:24:02] *** nater has joined ##java[01:24:45] <IMTheNachoMan> isnt there file that has the java api + tutorials and book so i can burn to cd, i thought i saw it a wihel ago[01:25:09] *** piinyouri has quit IRC[01:26:44] *** ries is now known as ye|[01:27:43] *** Markov has quit IRC[01:27:55] <IMTheNachoMan> anyone know?[01:29:02] <Stork> it'll be on the java.sun website[01:29:03] *** sleek has joined ##Java[01:29:16] <IMTheNachoMan> yeah im lookin but not seeing[01:30:23] <Stork> i've downloaded the docs from there, not sure about the tutorials though[01:30:36] *** OleMoudi has quit IRC[01:30:37] *** stefan has quit IRC[01:31:01] *** stefan has joined ##java[01:31:02] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: wget + diskutil ought to do the job ;)[01:31:34] <IMTheNachoMan> ~tutorial[01:31:35] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, tutorial is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/[01:31:47] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r dont have nuff time for that else i would (and im in windows)[01:32:13] <ernimril> IMTheNachoMan: cygwin....[01:32:27] *** deedaw has joined ##java[01:32:35] <ernimril> IMTheNachoMan: and if you know the tools it will take you no time...[01:32:40] *** slava has joined ##java[01:32:48] <IMTheNachoMan> dont waste time with that, im gonna install linux later this week anyway[01:32:54] <IMTheNachoMan> i found the tutorial online[01:33:01] <IMTheNachoMan> and the api is there too so i think im good[01:33:43] *** mohadib has joined ##java[01:33:55] *** Dena|Lap has quit IRC[01:34:01] <slava> mohadib![01:34:06] <mohadib> slava!![01:34:12] <mohadib> slava: whats the happs[01:34:17] * slava flosses his 1gb ram upgrade[01:34:34] <mohadib> nice , wow , now your mac can open two apps at a time?[01:34:35] <mohadib> :p[01:34:41] <slava> yup[01:34:45] <slava> haven't installed it yet, will do tomorrow[01:34:50] <slava> too busy tonight[01:34:56] <mohadib> how much did that cost you?[01:35:25] <slava> the guy i work for sent it[01:35:42] <slava> but ram is cheap these days[01:35:49] <mohadib> nice[01:35:54] <slava> when i get my g5 i'm gonna deck it out with 4gb[01:36:13] <mohadib> i have never needed more than a gig[01:36:22] <slava> os x is bloat[01:36:25] <mohadib> even with 2 instances of eclipse running :p[01:36:31] <tieTYT> does anyone know of an opensource text box I can put into an applet that has configurable text highlighting?[01:36:50] <mohadib> tieTYT: why not use something from jfc[01:37:00] <tieTYT> cause i donno what jfc is :)[01:37:06] <mohadib> ~jfc[01:37:06] <javabot> mohadib, I have no idea what jfc is.[01:37:11] <tieTYT> lol![01:37:14] <mohadib> java foundation classes[01:37:26] <mohadib> i JTextPane can do what you need[01:37:31] <mohadib> iirc[01:37:40] <tieTYT> o_O is that another way of saying j2se?[01:37:42] *** adante has quit IRC[01:37:55] <tieTYT> mohadib: i figured. I was just wondering if someone already built it for me[01:38:05] <mohadib> they did , its called JTextPane :p[01:38:15] <tieTYT> well fine then :P[01:38:18] <tieTYT> alright i'll look it up[01:38:18] <IMTheNachoMan> woah, can i copy the jdk files to a cd and use it to compile or it has to be 'installed'[01:38:19] <tieTYT> thanks man[01:38:30] <mohadib> np[01:38:42] <IMTheNachoMan> or jeditorpane[01:38:47] *** kaylee has quit IRC[01:38:56] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: at least on Linux , you dont have to install java[01:39:01] <mohadib> just unzip it[01:39:27] <slava> mohadib: autoscroll is such a pain on cocoa compared to swing[01:39:35] <mohadib> slava: how so[01:39:43] <mohadib> autscroll doesnt work for crap with swing[01:39:43] <slava> you have to set up the timer manually[01:39:53] *** ye| is now known as yel[01:39:57] <slava> autoscroll is the one part of swing that works[01:40:07] <mohadib> slava: not in my experience[01:40:12] <mohadib> it works about half the time[01:40:17] <mohadib> but it could be pebkac[01:40:17] <slava> lol[01:40:39] <ernimril> mohadib: edt problem perhaps?[01:40:47] <mohadib> esp if you scroll up ... the auto scroll just stops working a lot of the time[01:41:05] <mohadib> ernimril: I dont think so ... but[01:42:18] *** srcerer has quit IRC[01:42:21] <mohadib> so i found someone to collaborate on java projects who lives 20min away!! w00t[01:42:30] <slava> obj-c has this feature that's like c#'s delegates[01:42:37] <slava> you can make an object which consists of a method name and receiver[01:42:44] <slava> and this is used for timers and event listeners[01:43:31] <IMTheNachoMan> later guys[01:43:52] <mohadib> slava: so the delegate calls the method on the reciever object?[01:44:03] *** rogue-kun{B} is now known as rogue-kun{B}|Awa[01:44:06] * mohadib has never used delegation[01:44:11] *** rogue-kun{B}|Awa is now known as rogue-kun{B}[01:45:01] <slava> yes[01:45:30] <mohadib> so what is the advantge of using delegates[01:45:33] <mohadib> ?[01:45:36] *** mrsolo has quit IRC[01:45:38] <mohadib> or , how are they used[01:45:50] <slava> less typing than inner classes[01:45:53] <slava> event listeners and timers[01:46:17] <cybereal> slava: So... like TimerTask/Timer but also for events?[01:46:32] <slava> no, like an inner class with one method[01:46:39] <slava> that calls a method in your calss[01:46:55] *** Stork has quit IRC[01:46:57] <mohadib> i use interfaces for such things[01:47:12] <cybereal> *sigh* I wrote a webservices framework for an application library that has used RMI solely for the last few years... I think it's time to go home![01:47:30] <slava> why bother with such programming[01:47:41] *** Stork has joined ##java[01:48:12] *** Olathe has joined ##java[01:48:51] <mohadib> slava: with reflection is delegation possible in java?[01:49:14] <cybereal> slava: people who pay us hundreds of thousands of dollars want it, plus I'd rather present functionality through simple REST-like services than use servlets/jsp ... let the web monkeys stay AWAY from the internals.[01:49:51] <slava> server side stuff seems deathly boring to me[01:49:59] * mohadib nods[01:50:03] <slava> its not useful or interesting[01:50:13] <mohadib> unless you;re writing a tcp server[01:50:18] <Stork> would String.matches("hello*") return true when String was "hello@noob" ?[01:50:24] <mohadib> not spitting out html via apache/tomcat/etc[01:50:27] *** deadbug has joined ##java[01:50:34] <mohadib> slava: no , tias[01:50:40] <slava> lol[01:50:58] <mohadib> slava: it would match hellohello or hello or nothing[01:51:01] <mohadib> etc[01:51:08] <slava> Stork not slava[01:51:08] <deadbug> whats the power operator in java as in variable^2[01:51:13] <mohadib> or hellooooooo[01:51:13] <slava> deadbug: Math.pow()[01:51:15] <mohadib> actually[01:51:16] <deadbug> thanks[01:51:19] <mohadib> slava: it would match hellohello or hello or nothing[01:51:20] *** deadbug has left ##java[01:51:23] <mohadib> er..[01:51:26] <Stork> mohadib: so basically anything that started with hello, or not ?[01:51:28] <mohadib> slava: with reflection is delegation possible in java?[01:51:33] <slava> hello* will match hello or helloo or hellooooo[01:51:36] <slava> mohadib: sure but its verbose and ugly[01:51:46] <cybereal> mohadib: wouldn't it match hell plus any number 0 or more of o?[01:51:51] <mohadib> Stork: o* matches o 0 or more times[01:51:59] <mohadib> .* is what you want im guessing[01:52:08] <Stork> alright[01:52:12] <Stork> so hello.* ?[01:52:17] <mohadib> sure[01:52:18] <cybereal> yeah hello.* would match hello plus anything[01:52:24] <Stork> awesome[01:52:31] <Stork> thanks[01:52:40] <mohadib> ~tell Stork about javadoc pattern[01:52:40] <javabot> Stork, please see java.util.regex.Pattern: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/regex/Pattern.html[01:52:45] <Stork> thanks[01:52:48] <mohadib> np[01:52:52] <Stork> by the way[01:52:59] <Stork> i completed my Encrypted i/o streams[01:53:12] <mohadib> nice[01:53:16] <Stork> :)[01:55:36] <tieTYT> is this statement true: Anything I make with pure swing can be put in an applet?[01:55:44] <mohadib> sure[01:55:54] <mohadib> but applets are not preferred[01:56:05] <mohadib> ~tell tieTYT about jws[01:56:05] <javabot> tieTYT, jws is a powerful deployment mechanism that is much better than applets because it removes the browser incompatibility hell and you can run any swing app with a main() method without modification. see http://java.sun.com/products/javawebstart/[01:56:08] <tieTYT> because they suck?[01:56:14] <mohadib> basically :p[01:56:26] <tieTYT> yeah[01:56:28] <tieTYT> my boss loves them[01:56:29] <tieTYT> he wants an applet[01:56:32] <mohadib> heh[01:56:39] <tieTYT> i think they suck too[01:56:39] <mohadib> well , if he's paying[01:56:51] <tieTYT> it's pretty obvious not even sun gives a crap about them[01:57:05] <cybereal> mohadib: that description is partially wrong; there are a few restrictions on what they can do[01:57:11] *** gelignite has joined ##java[01:57:20] <cybereal> mainly with locally accessed files[01:57:45] <mohadib> cybereal: the only problem i have had with jws is setting certian system properites[01:57:55] <cybereal> mohadib: most things you just have to wrap with a permission request[01:57:58] <mohadib> other than that , i have hit no limitations[01:58:03] * mohadib nods[01:58:23] <cybereal> mohadib: but that does make it so you can't just run ANY swing app that way, but usually only very minor modifications are necessary[01:58:44] <mohadib> like signing the jar :p[01:58:47] <mohadib> thats about it[01:59:02] <mohadib> you're fucked if you want aatext[01:59:10] <mohadib> everything else just seems to work ime[02:00:03] <cybereal> Also the last time I used JWS was the year it was released[02:00:06] *** geli has quit IRC[02:00:13] <cybereal> so some things may be autowrapped by now for all I know[02:00:13] *** Stork has quit IRC[02:00:48] *** Stork has joined ##java[02:00:51] <mohadib> cybereal: i dunno , anytime i try to touch the file system or such , i just sign the application[02:01:01] <cybereal> mohadib: simple solution[02:01:08] <Stork> mohadib[02:01:16] <mohadib> yes[02:01:33] <Stork> if i used String.matches(String) and the strings are the same, it'd return the true right?[02:01:57] <mohadib> maybe something in the string is getting interperted ...?[02:02:10] <mohadib> i would think so , but tias[02:02:52] <mohadib> string.matches("^string$");[02:03:11] <slava> Stork: nope[02:03:19] <talios> 'lo slava[02:03:37] <Stork> slava: i don't know, it seemed to work though[02:03:57] <slava> Stork: "[a]".matches("[a]") is false[02:04:18] <Stork> well, when i tried it[02:04:21] <cybereal> Stork: Stop right there![02:04:26] <Stork> INT-A9000AB3.nott.cable.ntl.com matched INT-A9000AB3.nott.cable.ntl.com[02:04:29] <cybereal> Stork: Go learn about regular expressions[02:04:36] *** EasterSunshine has joined ##java[02:04:40] <slava> if you want to check if two strings are equal, use equals()[02:04:40] <Stork> java.util.regex?[02:04:47] <cybereal> Stork: regular expressions aren't just a java thing[02:05:03] <slava> making the String methods use regexps was a mistake[02:05:11] <mohadib> why?[02:05:18] <slava> because people get confused[02:05:40] <cybereal> Stork: Also in your example, if you put "INT-A9000AB3!nott!cable!ntl!com".matches("INT-A9000AB3.nott.cable.ntl.com"); it should work too, . means match any char.[02:05:41] <mohadib> well , if you cant use regex , or rtfm ...[02:06:05] <cybereal> slava: I agree on the replaceAll and split() methods[02:06:46] <EasterSunshine> i am new to java so please bear with me, there are some things my book did not explain. can i have an abstract class with fields in it and non-abstract methods that i would like for sublcasses to inherit? the books only shows abstract classes with all abstract methods and no fields[02:07:01] <cybereal> EasterSunshine: yes[02:07:03] <slava> hi talios[02:07:26] <cybereal> Ok now I'm really going home[02:07:50] <EasterSunshine> cybereal: so if i have a private method in an abstract class, than a subclass of that should able to access the method without overriding it?[02:08:34] *** cybereal has quit IRC[02:08:37] *** geli has joined ##java[02:09:13] <Talden> EasterSunshine - private methods are not inherited... they are final and subclasses cannot see them.[02:10:52] <EasterSunshine> so i have to declare them public? but what if i want them to be private after they are inherited?[02:10:55] *** Shadow_mil has joined ##java[02:12:15] *** Shadow_mil has quit IRC[02:15:24] <follower> ernimril: you around?[02:16:24] <gverig> Talden: Well, they are not accessible, not sure how you mean that they are not iherited.[02:16:34] <gverig> EasterSunshine: Use "protected" or default modifiers instead[02:17:40] <EasterSunshine> gverig: thx, that cut the number of compilation erros down by 40[02:18:38] <follower> is anyone here familiar with htmlparser, im not exactly sure how to use it, and im not fully grasping the documentation[02:19:57] *** gelignite has quit IRC[02:21:42] *** n0b0dY has quit IRC[02:22:33] <alex777> anyone use java db connection pooling ?[02:22:39] *** KingNato has quit IRC[02:23:58] *** csaba has quit IRC[02:24:35] *** elirips has quit IRC[02:24:59] <tieTYT> mohadib: can jws easily return values back to the webpage it came from when it closes?[02:25:26] <mohadib> tieTYT: no[02:25:40] *** fandeholly has joined ##java[02:25:40] <mohadib> tieTYT: however :)[02:26:00] <mohadib> with jdic , you can make your own browser with a few lines of code ;)[02:27:19] <alex777> another question, anyone ever do single-sign-on authentication through java ?[02:27:42] <alex777> I'm looking at the oracle API now to do that, but I want to see if there's a better way[02:27:52] <tieTYT> hm ok[02:28:28] *** cm_patric has quit IRC[02:29:15] <EasterSunshine> i can't override protected methods?[02:29:31] <dmlloyd> sure you can[02:29:36] <cyclone> Has anyone ever had a problem with the Systray class in JDIC? It seems to freeze up Linux with Gnome Completely with a Jabber client I use that is written in Java.[02:29:45] <cyclone> Just curious if anyone else has seen/heard of this issue...[02:30:01] *** stodge has joined ##java[02:30:09] <stodge> Is it possible to change the name of a JTable column at runtime?[02:41:13] *** ractrev has joined ##java[02:42:26] *** ractrev has quit IRC[02:43:36] <Olathe> stodge : I've never done it, but maybe #setColumnModel.[02:43:47] *** teimu has joined ##java[02:44:03] <Olathe> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/javax/swing/JTable.html#setColumnModel(javax.swing.table.TableColumnModel)[02:44:16] *** rogue-kun{B} is now known as rogue-kun{B}|Awa[02:44:54] <teimu> hello #java. i was reading the documentation, and i was a bit confused on what the difference is between ++var and var++?[02:45:22] <slava> the return value[02:45:42] <teimu> explain...[02:45:50] <Towny> how do I use a local version of a DTD, specificily the web.xml dtd?[02:45:57] <alex777> ++var increments on the spot, while var++ increments only when var is used next time[02:46:04] <alex777> as far as I remember[02:46:49] <stodge> olathe: thanks[02:47:13] <slava> alex777: that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard[02:47:18] <slava> they both increment at the time the ++ is evaluated[02:47:22] <slava> but foo++ returns the old value of foo[02:47:24] <teimu> haha[02:47:25] *** ractrev has joined ##java[02:47:42] <alex777> and then it's incremented[02:47:43] *** nater has quit IRC[02:47:58] <slava> no, the old value is kept on the stack and the variable is incremented[02:48:09] <alex777> I see[02:49:18] <teimu> so int i = 0 \ System.out.print(i++) prints 0?[02:49:27] <slava> yup[02:50:08] <teimu> o yea, anyone have any recommendations on a free ide?[02:50:12] <alex777> and then after that if you do a print(i) it prints 1 ?[02:50:22] <alex777> eclipse ?[02:50:38] <alex777> that's what I use, I don't know about everyone else[02:51:13] <teimu> looks nice[02:51:30] <d0gf> netbeans for J2EE/J2ME stuff[02:52:18] <teimu> err, can you give me a laymans version of what j2ee/j2me is?[02:52:19] *** some_dude has joined ##java[02:52:28] <some_dude> I've got an app giving me ""VM Periodic Task Thread" prio=1 tid=0x080a5b30 nid=0x9cd waiting on condition"[02:52:32] <some_dude> and hanging[02:53:25] <gverig> Anybody here from Canada (or knows how Canadian postal codes are structured)? Do you always type a space in the middle or is it sometimes dropped?[02:53:38] <slava> K1J 1K2, etc[02:54:19] <gverig> slava: Yeah. Is space usually required on the web sites? Or do they sometimes type K1J1K2?[02:54:49] <gverig> slava: I basically need to know if they will understand what the problem is if I decline above postal code[02:55:31] <d0gf> teimu j2ee is java enterprise edition, mostly server side stuff to make web sites and web services etc, j2me is java mobile edition, intended for mobile devices[02:55:32] *** follower has quit IRC[02:55:59] <slava> gverig: no space is not required[02:56:12] <gverig> slava: Thanks![02:56:46] <teimu> is there regular java? for amatuer programmers that just want to write scripts?[02:57:13] <slava> professional programmers don't use java, so all the versions are for amaterus[02:57:23] <teimu> haha, what do they use?[02:57:42] <slava> when your time is worth money, you don't want to bother with a toy technology that was obsolete when it was introduced in 1996[02:58:14] <gverig> They don't use anything, they are professionals.[02:58:23] <teimu> haha[02:59:22] <gverig> teimu: Get whatever release you want, generally the latest one. And you can't write scripts in java because it's not a scripting language.[02:59:31] <teimu> =([02:59:48] <teimu> well, define script[02:59:49] <gverig> teimu: ? 5.0 is the current release.[03:00:43] <gverig> teimu: script is generally understood (at least by me ;) ) as an interpreted language code, like shell script, Perl, PHP, Python, etc.[03:00:46] *** stefan has quit IRC[03:00:54] *** glick has joined ##java[03:00:57] <glick> howdy[03:01:01] *** stefan has joined ##java[03:01:04] *** yel has quit IRC[03:01:10] <slava> gverig: some jvms are interpreters[03:01:13] <glick> excuse me, how much memory do java programs usually take?[03:01:21] <glick> not including the JV<[03:01:23] <glick> JVM[03:01:23] <slava> how much memory do c++ programs usually take?[03:01:31] <glick> is there an upper cielling?[03:01:36] <slava> or programs in any language?[03:01:55] <glick> heh[03:02:08] <teimu> as much as you tell them to take[03:02:09] <gverig> slava: yes, But 1) java is not interpreted as a language, they are interpreted at bytecode level 2) they don't have to be interpreted[03:02:35] <slava> gverig: both those points apply to python, php and perl too[03:02:45] <glick> python owns java[03:02:55] <teimu> true that. Python power![03:03:00] <gverig> slava: interpreted languages have nice things like late binding that can't be compiled. And you know this much better then me[03:03:12] <slava> gverig: late binding can be compiled just fine. java's polymorphism is late binding[03:03:27] <teimu> while 1: python > java[03:04:29] <slava> gverig: you can even compile a runtime-updated cache for late-bound method call sites, which is what some smalltalk implementations do[03:04:48] *** nater has joined ##java[03:05:02] <gverig> slava: yup. And so is C++ polymophism. And vtables act as runtime resolution engine that can be built for python or PHP. But for python or PHP it rurns into full blown VM[03:05:23] <slava> gverig: i don't understand what you're trying to say[03:07:59] <EasterSunshine> what the standard way of making a single-threaded program sleep for a certain amount of time?[03:08:14] <Stork> ~karma[03:08:15] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'help karma' might be appropriate:[03:08:16] <javabot> To increment someone's karma, use ~nickname++, e.g., ~Stork++. To decrement, use -- instead of ++. To view someone's karma level, use ~karma nickname, e.g., ~karma Stork[03:08:17] <nater> i'm having trouble figuring out how to determine % loaded status of my application. i've been googling classloader, but it's been of minimal help. any suggestions?[03:08:25] <Erica> Erica++[03:08:35] <Erica> javabot: karma erica[03:08:35] <javabot> erica has a karma level of -2, Erica[03:08:43] <Stork> ehe, lol[03:08:48] <Stork> ~karma Stork[03:08:48] <javabot> stork has a karma level of 4, Stork[03:08:58] <nater> ~karma nater[03:08:58] <javabot> nater, you have a karma level of 1.[03:09:08] <nater> hrmmm... i was at 2 for a while[03:09:14] <slava> ~nater++[03:09:14] <javabot> nater has a karma level of 2, slava[03:09:20] <nater> lol, thanks[03:09:26] <jwormy> slava![03:09:30] <nater> erica: google java sleep[03:09:37] <Erica> slava? i'm a minority female here, help my karma out[03:09:45] <slava> not unless you're hot[03:09:51] <nater> we demand pics[03:09:58] <jwormy> Erica, try and say something useful and you might get some karma..[03:10:00] <Stork> haha[03:10:00] <nater> nakey pics[03:10:11] <jwormy> Erica, but its pretty obvious you have less intelligent things to say than i di[03:10:12] <jwormy> do*[03:10:14] <EasterSunshine> its says to use the static sleep() from Thread class, but inserting that results in a wierd ass cimpilation error[03:10:22] <nater> erica: or show something useful and you might get some karma[03:10:54] <Stork> awesome! I made my own mini javabot[03:11:00] <nater> eastersunshine: error message?[03:11:03] <Erica> public class Karma {...}; Karma Erica = new Karma( 10000 );[03:11:08] <Stork> it records factoids and such[03:11:19] <nater> ummm.... thats invalid code erica[03:11:34] <Stork> Horribly so[03:11:45] <Erica> not it's not[03:11:45] <EasterSunshine> unreported exception java.lang.InterruptedException; must be caught or declared to be thrown[03:11:48] <nater> there's no constructor[03:12:00] <EasterSunshine> i used Thread.sleep(500);[03:12:07] <Erica> you notices the '...' i'm not showing it[03:12:15] <Erica> but the ctor is there[03:12:24] <nater> eastersunshine: did you do try catch?[03:12:26] <Stork> EasterSunshine: that means you have to try/catch the exception[03:12:41] *** Towny has quit IRC[03:12:43] <EasterSunshine> aw man...what kind of exception would possibly generate?[03:12:57] <nater> InterruptedException[03:13:02] <slava> use a try/catch[03:13:06] <nater> as stated in the error message[03:13:08] <slava> checked exceptions are a major productivity loss[03:13:12] <EasterSunshine> try{Thread.sleep(500);}catch(exception e){}[03:13:17] <EasterSunshine> does that look good?[03:13:26] <slava> change it to InterruptedException[03:13:51] <EasterSunshine> i have never worked with try/catch before, sry[03:14:07] <nater> new people tend to overlook it[03:14:11] <nater> i did[03:14:29] <nater> i didn't really get it until i forced myself to use them[03:14:33] <some_dude> ok, I've got an app, i downloaded, and it's for linux,, and says it needs red hat 7.0 +, but it runs on windows, should there be any reason it would not run on debian ?[03:14:36] <some_dude> it just hangs[03:14:52] <glick> has anyone read this book?[03:14:53] <glick> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0201432943/qid=1130375417/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-4171857-2532717?v=glance&s=books[03:15:11] <MrPrimate> some_dude, you installed it from an rpm or what? there are many reasons it might hang for you, debian isn't the same as redhat[03:15:25] *** flippo has joined ##java[03:15:28] <MrPrimate> some_dude, if it's pure java and it runs in redhat and windows, it should run on debian though[03:15:32] <some_dude> its only a .jar file i downloaded of the net[03:15:42] <nater> its probably some redhat specific config file or something[03:15:47] <MrPrimate> some_dude, oh, if it's java, yeah, it should run[03:16:04] <some_dude> I've not been able to test it on redhat, but this one is for red hat, and THIS jar file runs fine on windows[03:16:21] <MrPrimate> some_dude, and there are no error messages in the console when you run it ?[03:16:29] <nater> some_dude: unzip the jar, and look for any files that aren't class files[03:16:32] <some_dude> no, it just hangs[03:16:44] *** bowyakka has quit IRC[03:16:45] <gverig> slava: Sorry I had boss in my cube... Basically, what I was trying to say is that after C, the difference between interpreted and compiled languages started to blur. You can't compile C++, Java or PHP into machine code unless you put some engine in that will resolve some pointers at runtime. That's why I gave definition that I gave for scripting language and I can't come up with a better one. Java can be compiled (well, except for memory management) into machi[03:16:51] <some_dude> brb[03:17:03] <MrPrimate> some_dude, type java -version and make sure you're using Sun's JRE[03:17:13] <MrPrimate> some_dude, it might be trying to run using the GNU java runtime[03:17:22] <MrPrimate> some_dude, that sometimes comes with debian.[03:17:27] <glick> do you think the stuff in that book will still apply today?[03:17:30] <nater> good call[03:17:31] <some_dude> offical sun[03:18:05] <nater> some_dude: what program is it?[03:18:29] <some_dude> springcharts[03:18:55] <MrPrimate> i have debian, i'll try it[03:19:02] <MrPrimate> if it's free to download[03:19:17] <some_dude> it's not[03:19:21] <MrPrimate> ok n/m :][03:19:29] *** stodge has quit IRC[03:19:36] <some_dude> i can send you the .jar file, it's only the client[03:20:10] <MrPrimate> does stderr normally print to console?[03:20:11] <nater> some_dude: my guess is that they detect os, and if it's linux, they've got hardcoded redhat specific code[03:20:15] <MrPrimate> maybe it is printing stuff on stderr[03:20:17] <MrPrimate> and you could 2> out.log[03:20:20] <some_dude> http://www.springmedical.com/programdownload.html[03:20:21] <MrPrimate> and see if there is an error[03:20:55] <Erica> is anyone here into MS Project as a project planner?[03:20:55] <some_dude> i get the message waiting on condtion[03:21:04] <MrPrimate> should I try Linux Single Project Version ?[03:21:05] <some_dude> when i kill -3 it[03:21:21] <MrPrimate> sorry, Single Computer Versioj[03:21:49] <MrPrimate> oh that's jsut some upgrade, not the full program[03:22:06] <glick> isi the current java platform platform 2?[03:22:06] <MrPrimate> well that thing ran fine ;][03:22:07] <Erica> guess not[03:22:22] <MrPrimate> glick, Java 2 v1.5[03:22:38] <Erica> I just wanted to know if MS Project is worth purchasing or is the freeware project planners enough[03:22:46] <glick> MrPrimate, what does the version number mean? just implementation of libraries and such?[03:23:11] <jwormy> Erica what do you do?[03:23:19] <Erica> jwormy java programmer[03:23:27] <glick> MrPrimate, will this books till be relevant?[03:23:27] <jwormy> for whom?[03:23:27] <glick> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0201432943/qid=1130375417/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-4171857-2532717?v=glance&s=books[03:23:48] <glick> im thinkin of buyin that[03:23:51] *** Kezzer has quit IRC[03:24:00] <some_dude> the only thing i get from the install CD is that jar file, and a few files[03:24:07] <Erica> jwormy for a large financial company[03:24:20] <some_dude> but I'm using network client[03:24:24] <jwormy> Erica, so howmany programmers do they have[03:24:27] <some_dude> let me test the server[03:24:32] <Erica> about 200[03:24:42] <Erica> where i work at[03:25:05] * glick is not a huge java fan[03:25:06] <MrPrimate> glick, Yeah that book is not a book that you want to read to learn Java[03:25:09] <nater> erica: you remind me of somebody my friend used to work with... until she got fired[03:25:12] <Erica> i've been given a project to both manage and do the coding[03:25:14] * MrPrimate is a huge java fan.[03:25:24] <MrPrimate> Erica, I manage and do coding also[03:25:29] <slava> managers are stupid[03:25:33] <glick> MrPrimate, i dont want to lean to program in java, i want to lean how the JVM architecture works[03:25:33] <Erica> nater, who is that?[03:25:40] <MrPrimate> glick, oh, well then that book is fine[03:25:49] <MrPrimate> java is slick[03:25:50] <Erica> I might know her, where did she work?[03:25:56] <nater> "<slava> managers are stupid" q4t[03:26:01] <nater> great lakes[03:26:03] *** amorph has quit IRC[03:26:19] <MrPrimate> 200 programmers? my god[03:26:27] <MrPrimate> that's insane[03:26:29] <glick> MrPrimate, im sure java is 'ok' for somethings, but i have less then warm and fuzzy feelings for it[03:26:32] <slava> i bet 195 of them are mediocre[03:26:43] <MrPrimate> glick, java is geat for lots of things that are not low-level[03:26:45] <slava> a team of 200 is less productive than 3 sharp guys, on average[03:26:48] <nater> mrprimate: most likely working on like 5 different projects, split into teams, etc[03:26:48] <MrPrimate> glick, java is great for soft software :][03:26:53] <some_dude> 1.5.x java ver[03:26:59] <jwormy> slava, you've read the zen of programming eh?[03:27:04] <slava> good coders don't tend to work in such environments anyway[03:27:06] <glick> MrPrimate, whats soft software?[03:27:12] <slava> only a fool works on a team of 200[03:27:15] <MrPrimate> glick, further abstracted from the hardware[03:27:26] <Erica> slava that is not nice.[03:27:27] <slava> nothing gets done, too much management and communication overhead[03:27:28] <MrPrimate> glick, software for the purpose of doing software-like things, not talking to a specific machine[03:27:38] <glick> MrPrimate, sure, but you take a performance hit, naturally[03:27:39] <MrPrimate> glick, the abstraction from the machine is a nice thing[03:27:43] <MrPrimate> glick, not so much.[03:27:47] <slava> java is not good for anything, except categoring the market for 200-programmer teams with "managers"[03:28:00] <MrPrimate> glick, the performance hit of a bad c programmer is much worse[03:28:03] <glick> MrPrimate, but enough to notice slowdown when your running a big java code[03:28:08] <glick> MrPrimate, true[03:28:25] <MrPrimate> glick, nah, try out Eclipse, that runs as well as as any C IDE on my machine, and it's pure Java[03:28:30] <Erica> the team is broken down fairly well[03:28:33] <glick> MrPrimate, but if you compare a similer coded C program with a similer coded java program, it will be no contest[03:28:44] <MrPrimate> glick, Eclipse beats MSVC++ to me[03:28:46] <slava> C is quite obsolete...[03:28:49] <Erica> designers, coders, leads, managers, analysts, etc...[03:28:50] <MrPrimate> glick, in performance[03:28:50] <slava> its not suitable for writing applications at all[03:28:53] <glick> MrPrimate, yeah that stuff works slow on mine,[03:28:57] <nater> ummm...[03:28:58] <slava> Erica: designers? hahaha[03:29:03] <slava> Erica: what kind of dorks employ a "designer"[03:29:05] <jwormy> slava, check pm's[03:29:05] <glick> slava, your crazy[03:29:08] <slava> he draws UML diagrams all day[03:29:09] <slava> ?[03:29:12] <MrPrimate> slava, then if C is so outdated, why are you hating on Java ?[03:29:16] <Erica> yes[03:29:22] <Erica> Rational Rose[03:29:23] <Garibaldi> you're*[03:29:28] <glick> slava, C is still the most used language[03:29:28] <gverig> slava: You do realize that you speak nonsense, right? I mean java would should not be used for most tasks where performance is critical but it is more then viable technology for many tasks[03:29:29] <slava> MrPrimate: because C and Java are not the only two languages[03:29:29] <jwormy> wow you guys really have a guy that draws uml diagrams?[03:29:30] <jwormy> that sucks[03:29:32] <idpromnut> Erica: RUP?[03:29:37] <MrPrimate> slava, what's your language of choice?[03:29:37] <Erica> yes, RUP[03:29:50] <some_dude> rup ?[03:29:55] <slava> MrPrimate: the one i develop, as well as lisp and objective-c[03:29:55] <some_dude> I like ruby[03:30:02] <idpromnut> some_dude: Rational Unified Process.[03:30:02] <Erica> Rational Unified Process == RUP[03:30:08] <jwormy> objective-c is hot shit...[03:30:11] <nater> 50rry 3r1c4, j00 ju57 4r3n'7 l337 3n0ugh f0r u5[03:30:13] <some_dude> I was way off[03:30:17] <gverig> slava: There may be technologies/languages that you like better but it does not mean that you can speak in terms of good/bad, especially to newbs.[03:30:21] <glick> well C is for systems software[03:30:21] <jwormy> lisp is... well ... i'm not even gonna say it[03:30:28] <Erica> why aren't I leet enough for you nater?[03:30:28] <idpromnut> some_dude: picture Extreme Programming, now picture the complete opposite end, that's RUP[03:30:28] <MrPrimate> right, java is very suitable for anything that performance is not a high priority, and sometimes Java making native system calls does the job to make the performance well[03:30:32] <slava> gverig: i can speak from a language design perspective[03:30:34] <glick> java is obviously not good for time critical software[03:30:34] <MrPrimate> slava, and what's the one you develop ?[03:30:38] <slava> MrPrimate: factor[03:30:46] <slava> glick: java's performance is not bad these days[03:30:55] <slava> glick: performance is not the problem with java[03:31:00] <Erica> nater: why do you say i'm not leet enough?[03:31:00] <glick> but i guess its good for a spreadsheep program, cause who gives a shit if it takes a few seconds longer to load your spreadsheep[03:31:02] <MrPrimate> as the JIT and JVM improve then performance improves[03:31:05] <nater> erica: you work with designers... i bet your apps have guis and everything[03:31:06] <glick> slava, yes it is[03:31:11] <MrPrimate> glick, what's the problem with java? ... why is objective C better?[03:31:16] <MrPrimate> glick, you don't like the virtual machine ?[03:31:18] <slava> glick: java's problem is verbosity, and poor design of the language/API[03:31:19] <gverig> slava: Again, good/bad has many factors outside of language design. Starting from adoption levels and compiler quality.[03:31:23] <glick> slava, i know the oooh a poorly written c program is worse then a java program[03:31:24] <Erica> I hope tat UML is the future of software design[03:31:34] <glick> but a poorly written c program will beat a poorly written java program[03:31:40] <jwormy> you think UML is the future of software design?[03:31:46] <jwormy> please give me some of the crack you are smoking.[03:31:47] <slava> gverig: adoption levels are not relevant in most cases; i agree that compiler quality is important, which is why i put a lot of effort into mine, and only use languages with good compilers[03:31:48] <Erica> jwormy I hope it is[03:31:54] <mohadib> anyone know how to set which ip you want tp scp from?[03:31:55] <nater> i hope that lone coder is the future of programming[03:31:58] <Erica> jwormy we are using it a lot[03:32:04] <idpromnut> I think Agile Programming has an interesting balance between RUP and XP.[03:32:05] <glick> MrPrimate, yes im not a big fan of the virtual machine[03:32:10] <MrPrimate> glick, but for most scenario where Java is useful, it makes the programming job take quite a lot less time[03:32:11] *** teimu has quit IRC[03:32:16] <Erica> Extreme Programming is ok too[03:32:22] <glick> because firstly, the virtual machine itself may have bugs in it[03:32:23] <slava> MrPrimate: are you kidding? programming in java is so much work[03:32:27] <mohadib> for ssh it is -b , but i dont see how to do the same with scp[03:32:30] <idpromnut> meh, RUP and XP both have their problems.[03:32:31] <slava> MrPrimate: edit/compile/run cycle wastes so much time[03:32:32] <MrPrimate> slava, and programming in C is less work ?[03:32:33] <glick> MrPrimate, your probably right[03:32:37] <slava> MrPrimate: i'm not comapring to C[03:32:43] <MrPrimate> slava, ok, LISP?[03:32:46] <slava> sure[03:32:53] <Erica> Everything as it's problem so what[03:32:57] <MrPrimate> slava, i'll have to see LISP sometime :)[03:33:02] <glick> C doesnt do anything for you, you basically have to set everything up yourself, its basically portable assembler[03:33:05] <MrPrimate> Java gets the job done for me.[03:33:06] <gverig> slava: adoption level is relevant in most cases, because you will not get hired if you use languages nobody knows and you will be fired (and rightfully so) if you try to introduce technologies that are not used.[03:33:08] <nater> can anybody point me to a resource about returning the load status of a program using program loaders? google is poopy[03:33:24] <slava> gverig: only in an enterprise environment. i have no interest in monkey ejb coding[03:33:35] <slava> gverig: with 200 person teams that get *nothing* accomplished[03:33:37] <MrPrimate> glick, don't forget it's also a portable assembler WITH os calls :)[03:34:04] <glick> MrPrimate, heh[03:34:06] <Erica> nater: why did you say i'm not leet enough for you guys? "<nater> 50rry 3r1c4, j00 ju57 4r3n'7 l337 3n0ugh f0r u5"[03:34:07] <jwormy> Erica, can i pm you?[03:34:08] <glick> yeah[03:34:15] <Erica> jwormy sure[03:34:20] <gverig> slava: heh... well, I did not say that everything about java is right. BTW, EJB is bad only because crowds of morons try to put it everywhere and now where it belongs.[03:34:27] <Cow_woC> blah blah blah... I've seen LISP a couple of times. The language might have had great design (I don't know, I never looked) but its syntax looked like garbage.[03:34:29] <slava> gverig: ejb, web apps, j2ee, whatever[03:34:36] <slava> Cow_woC: its a filter that keeps the idiots out[03:34:53] <Cow_woC> slava: that's one way to look at it. You could say the same thing for Perl[03:35:01] <MrPrimate> yaeh, I can't see how people can read lisp, though I don't know it well enough to know[03:35:08] <nater> erica: i was being cheeky[03:35:13] <MrPrimate> but it looks like they went wild with the parenthesis and brackets[03:35:19] * Cow_woC nods[03:35:22] <slava> how can people read java? it takes 10000 lines to do something simple[03:35:34] <slava> i've never seen good java code in a commercial environment[03:35:42] <vinse> i agree with slava more and more every day[03:35:46] <vinse> readability is overrated[03:35:47] <slava> all these monkey enterprise coders using their crappy IDEs to churn out boilerplate EJBs[03:35:57] <slava> vinse: readability is very important[03:36:00] <Erica> i'm going to bed now[03:36:00] <vinse> readability means shit if you get less done[03:36:04] <Erica> see you guys tomorrow.[03:36:05] <Erica> nite[03:36:06] *** Erica has left ##java[03:36:13] <gverig> slava: I have seen quality java code. Not much of it though.[03:36:22] <MrPrimate> slava, hahah... java is not that bad... what do you mean? it takes 15 lines to open a window and draw a happy face in it[03:36:24] *** kazzmir has joined ##java[03:36:26] <Cow_woC> yeah, ok there :) slava and company are welcome to keep their opinions and "code right"[03:36:37] <Cow_woC> meanwhile, I'm happy sitting here using Java and not Lisp[03:36:41] <Cow_woC> "Works for me" (tm)[03:36:42] <gverig> slava: But quality code is not a property of a language. I can bet there are people that write ugly code in LISP[03:36:46] <kazzmir> does anyone know of a way to write a streaming compressed file that can be read back before its closed?[03:36:56] <slava> gverig: a langauge can make it hard or easy to write crappy code[03:36:58] <MrPrimate> it's nice to be able to extend everything and override methods and everything[03:37:10] *** EasterSunshine has quit IRC[03:37:22] <MrPrimate> gverig, is there lisp code that isn't ugly??er?/? legible???[03:37:28] <Garibaldi> "getting shit done" doesn't mean much in the end[03:37:34] <slava> gverig: its also a matter of community attitude[03:37:37] <vinse> Garibaldi: how so?[03:37:39] <slava> the java philosophy is get it done, not do it right[03:37:40] <Garibaldi> question is, is your shit maintainable[03:37:52] <gverig> slava: And java is doing pretty well job there. Maybe not the best but solid enough.[03:37:59] <jwormy> Garibaldi, yeet yeet![03:38:00] <slava> gverig: its doing pretty badly, IMO[03:38:21] <Garibaldi> since less than 20% of the software's lifetime is spent while you're "getting shit done"[03:38:31] <vinse> Garibaldi: maintainability is a good idea that, like all good ideas, lives awkwardly on earth[03:38:37] <slava> yes, maintaining 1 million lines of boilerplate duplicated code is pretty tough[03:38:44] <vinse> i've seen some horrible stuff done in the name of maintainability[03:38:47] <slava> espeically if a 200 person team wrote it[03:38:50] <slava> with a manager[03:38:58] <MrPrimate> yeah people write a lot of 'tower of babel' bullship OOP code in Java, but that's not Java's fault,[03:39:04] <gverig> slava: Well... I guess that's where we do not agree. But I am not too good in language comparisons so I can't argue with you there.[03:39:05] <MrPrimate> that's 200 programmers that had to earn their keep[03:39:06] <slava> MrPrimate: look at swing, for example[03:39:10] <Garibaldi> eh, all I'm referring to is some reasonable coding style[03:39:11] <slava> MrPrimate: its one of the worst pieces of code known to man[03:39:20] <MrPrimate> slava, yeah swing does have its problems I'll admit[03:39:24] <glick> maybe a reason i dislike java is that i had a shitty java teacher[03:39:26] <slava> MrPrimate: look at any java core api[03:39:26] <Garibaldi> that is consistent across the project[03:39:29] <MrPrimate> slava, I won't call it the worst piece of anything though[03:39:30] *** bgilb has joined ##java[03:39:32] <slava> MrPrimate: are you going to say that java is not crap, just that every api written for it is?[03:39:35] <glick> plus i am in live with python for anything application level[03:39:36] *** SbCl3 has joined ##java[03:39:37] <slava> MrPrimate: maybe that's true[03:39:43] *** SbCl3 has left ##java[03:39:45] <MrPrimate> slava, no most of the API seems nice to me, and yes the language itself is nice[03:39:46] <Cow_woC> slava: give me a break[03:39:50] <jwormy> erica is one of the dubmest bitches ever.[03:39:52] <slava> glick: python has serious performance issues that make it unsuitable for anything but toy tasks[03:39:54] <Garibaldi> (and hopefully consistent with the existing libraries for the language)[03:39:55] <Cow_woC> slava: Java APIs are definately not crap, not by far[03:39:57] <glick> but most of my coding is system software and the occasional shell script to make make files[03:39:57] <MrPrimate> slava, I don't see any trouble with the most of the API, swing does have some problems[03:39:58] <slava> Cow_woC: yes they are.[03:40:05] <glick> slava, thats not true[03:40:06] <MrPrimate> most of the Java API is very nice, IMO[03:40:06] <Cow_woC> slava: fine, I happen to disagree with you[03:40:10] <slava> Cow_woC: the java hotspot implementation is terrible, terrible, code, so are the core apis[03:40:17] <slava> Cow_woC: if all you have to comapre with is c++ and qbasic, fine the api is great[03:40:18] <gverig> slava: I do think though that telling a newb that java sucks without explaining that pretty much any other language sucks as much and the few languages that do not suck from your standpoint are almost never used any more is wrong. That's IMO though[03:40:19] <slava> i agree[03:40:21] <MrPrimate> slava, what core API is terrible[03:40:21] <Cow_woC> slava: they work just fine, thank you very much[03:40:22] <glick> slava, look at freshmeat.net and look at python projects,[03:40:29] <glick> python is nicely extensible with C[03:40:38] <some_dude> hey, ok I'm outside, and its cold and dark, I walked away for a bit, and came back and the client that was hung was running[03:40:43] <glick> so for performance criticle sections you can call C code[03:40:43] <slava> MrPrimate: swing, java.util collections[03:40:45] <slava> MrPrimate: tons more[03:40:47] <some_dude> i think it's just SLOW[03:40:48] <glick> and glue it together with python[03:40:53] <glick> its a beautiful thing[03:40:58] <slava> glick: that is not necessary with a fast language[03:41:02] <MrPrimate> slava, the collections seem ok to me[03:41:02] <Cow_woC> slava = LISP troll[03:41:19] <slava> MrPrimate: have you used smalltalk collections, or any functional langauge collections?[03:41:20] <MrPrimate> you can always extend or replace them with your own things[03:41:21] <bgilb> http://vandrel.obscurum.net/vandrelquest2.png - bad good design?[03:41:33] <MrPrimate> slava, not really[03:41:33] <glick> slava, python of course its interpreted language! what do you expect? asm speed? but its a nice glue language[03:41:41] <slava> MrPrimate: then you have no reference point[03:41:48] <MrPrimate> python is just annoying to look at[03:41:50] <slava> glick: interpreters are very amateurish[03:41:52] <glick> and when its used as glue to glue together C and C++ code, its almost JUST AS FAST as C[03:41:57] <slava> glick: writing a compiler is not that hard[03:42:04] <glick> slava, python interprets bytecode[03:42:08] <gverig> Cow_woC: Well, apart from bing a troll, slava has a more then decent CS background (probably scientific... not sure) so he is right on many points[03:42:11] <slava> glick: i meant machine code compiler[03:42:30] <slava> glick: some of python's design decisions, such as using refcounting instead of GC, are just inexcusable[03:42:36] <glick> slava, no you cant compile because of the way the language works[03:42:42] <Cow_woC> gverig: <shrug> he speaks very often from an embedded programmer point of view[03:42:50] <slava> glick: lisp and smalltalk are about as high level as python and both are compiled[03:42:58] <Cow_woC> gverig: Frankly, I don't care about embedded dev (I used to do that kind of dev myself) ..[03:43:03] <Cow_woC> gverig: and most people don't either[03:43:04] <slava> i don't do embedded programming[03:43:06] <jwormy> wow erica says the company she works for has a project that is millions of lines of coding.. i'd lvoe to see that UML diagram[03:43:09] <glick> lisp is not compiled[03:43:12] <slava> glick: yes it is[03:43:18] <gverig> Cow_woC: I don't know how much embedded programming you can do with LISP[03:43:19] <glick> lisp is bytecode compiled[03:43:23] <glick> just like python![03:43:28] *** synic has quit IRC[03:43:29] <MrPrimate> did they do some of gnome with lisp ?[03:43:30] <slava> glick: nope[03:43:36] <glick> MrPrimate, im not sure[03:43:40] <MrPrimate> I was told some of gnome was written in lisp[03:43:44] <slava> glick: "Steel Bank Common Lisp (SBCL) is an open source (free software) compiler and runtime system for ANSI Common Lisp. It provides an interactive environment including an integrated native compiler, a debugger, and many extensions."[03:43:44] <MrPrimate> or a lot of it[03:43:48] <slava> glick: note: native compiler :)[03:44:00] <slava> gnome uses corba... not really related[03:44:05] <slava> but its a dynamic OOP technology[03:44:19] *** phuriku has joined ##java[03:44:22] <glick> havent seen that[03:44:31] <glick> i think lisp can run interpretively or be compiled then[03:44:39] <jwormy> i love pm'ing slava[03:44:42] <some_dude> ok, I've found the problem[03:44:45] <some_dude> there is not one[03:44:50] <glick> but whatever have you ever looked at lisp code? its about as shitty as it comes[03:45:00] <some_dude> i need to rebuild the kernel and add something[03:45:03] <slava> glick: i find it much nicer than c-like syntax[03:45:06] <slava> its a matter of taste[03:45:08] <glick> programming in recursive lamda calculus sounds like a shitty proposition to me[03:45:16] <some_dude> TCP multi-casting ?[03:45:26] <glick> slava, to each his own i guess[03:45:29] <some_dude> they use multi-casting, and my kernel does not support it[03:45:36] <MrPrimate> he's more fun if you pronounce his name as saliva[03:45:36] <slava> programming in a language used by a community of enterprise retards sounds like a shitty proposition to me[03:45:37] <glick> java takes OOP to an extreme[03:45:40] <glick> and i dont like that[03:45:44] <MrPrimate> slava its a matter of taste[03:45:47] <slava> glick: lisp has better OOP than java -- multiple inheritance, multiple dispatch[03:45:58] <slava> glick: so does python[03:46:02] <glick> im used to C the functional paradyme, and the functional AND OOP paradyme[03:46:10] <slava> C is not functional[03:46:10] *** keyhack has quit IRC[03:46:14] <Garibaldi> and multiple inheritance is a goal?[03:46:16] <MrPrimate> glick, yeah... well pick the right tool for the job, right?[03:46:21] <glick> MrPrimate, yeah[03:46:29] <Garibaldi> C is procedural[03:46:31] <slava> Garibaldi: no but its nice in a few cases, unlike what idiots like james gosling say[03:46:33] <glick> MrPrimate, but i find it hard to think in PURE OOP[03:46:40] <slava> glick: then don't use pure OOP languages[03:46:41] <glick> pure OOP doesnt model the real world[03:46:47] <slava> neither does procedural[03:46:55] <glick> i think OOP mixed with functional paradyme is a much closer model[03:46:57] <slava> modelling the real world is not what you want to do in programming anyway[03:47:01] <slava> glick: what's a paradyme?[03:47:04] <gverig> slava: Not just enterprise retards program java. Not everybody needs a language that is "pure like a virgin"... Some of us need for technology to work and be actively developed and supported. Java has both.[03:47:05] <slava> ~tell glick about english[03:47:06] <javabot> glick, english is http://www.bentsynapse.net/insults/images/englishpulpfiction.jpg[03:47:11] <MrPrimate> Pure OOP....hmm... POOP..... maybe we have a new acronym[03:47:24] <glick> slava, a spelling error or the the word paradime?[03:47:31] <slava> paradigm[03:47:31] <MrPrimate> if you are too hardcore about your OOP you just make a big bloated mess[03:47:51] <MrPrimate> tower of babel[03:48:08] <slava> OOP is not inherently bloated[03:48:08] <glick> plus i find java hard to read personally[03:48:11] <tanq> i wouldnt say hardcore about OOP but a poor architect[03:48:12] <glick> and sometimes hard to follow[03:48:29] <glick> i find anonymous classes "strange"[03:48:36] <MrPrimate> I think it's the easiest to read and follow of any language I've seen[03:48:40] <slava> anonymous classes are a hack[03:48:47] <slava> MrPrimate: what have you seen?[03:48:53] <MrPrimate> I don't do the anonymous classes much[03:49:06] <tanq> i don't either[03:49:07] <MrPrimate> slava, basic, c, pascal, asm, perl, php, javascript, etc[03:49:11] <MrPrimate> slava, oh, c++ also[03:49:43] <MrPrimate> slava, also some others I can't remember the name, I've seen bits of code for the obscure ones[03:49:44] <glick> heh im writting a Java byte code interpreter for a project[03:49:47] *** Rene_ has joined ##java[03:49:48] <glick> thats why i need that JVM book[03:50:46] <slava> popular languages are never very good because they attract a community of people who only use the language because its popular[03:50:58] <slava> some fool gets his java cert and starts writing spring[03:51:03] <slava> etc[03:51:07] <glick> hehe[03:51:25] <glick> any language you can get a "cert" in be weary of[03:51:32] <MrPrimate> heh[03:51:56] <Garibaldi> no, just be weary of people who have "certs"[03:52:04] <jwormy> haha yes.[03:52:10] <Garibaldi> says nothing about the language[03:52:11] <jwormy> my last minion had 'certs'.. i fired him quickly[03:52:14] <Uviz> The most popular language in the world is VB the last time I checked.[03:52:19] <tanq> yeah especially project managers[03:52:21] <tanq> =0[03:52:26] <glick> i dont know of anyone offering C certs[03:52:36] <Uviz> Java was forth or 5th if I'm not wrong.[03:52:38] <slava> Garibaldi: sure it does, because languages get popular not because of technical superiority, but because of marketing, etc[03:52:46] <MrPrimate> i'll sell you a C cert for $200[03:52:51] <glick> C didnt get popular cause of marketing[03:52:52] <tanq> heh[03:52:56] <MrPrimate> i'll even let you cheat on my test[03:52:59] <slava> some pinhead manager sees sun's glossy literature and decides to hire a 200 person team to program ejb's in java[03:53:01] <glick> neither did C++[03:53:03] <glick> or perl[03:53:12] <MrPrimate> C was popular because nobody wanted to write assembly, and that's what you got.[03:53:13] <glick> or Fortran[03:53:16] <slava> was technology ever a factor in his decision? no... will the team produce anything interesting or relevant? no[03:53:24] <glick> people just use what they know and what the job calls for[03:53:29] <MrPrimate> perl was popular because you didn't want to write C, and that's what you got.[03:53:38] <glick> i hate perl[03:53:44] <glick> regex are nice however[03:53:58] <MrPrimate> yeah perl's regexness is the cool part of it[03:54:04] <Cow_woC> regex are evil[03:54:06] <Garibaldi> slava: your logic is flawed[03:54:06] <glick> but python can do regex too using the perl lib so i never need to touch perl again[03:54:07] <MrPrimate> i think they went a little buck wild though[03:54:09] <jwormy> i pretty much get disinterested with a project as soon as someone talks about 4 people or more..[03:54:16] <Garibaldi> to say "a language sucks because it is popular"[03:54:17] <slava> Garibaldi: maybe so, but it mirrors my experience 100%[03:54:24] <Cow_woC> they're only interesting once you understand them, but they tend to be abused more often than useful[03:54:28] <slava> Garibaldi: people who make tech decisions know nothing about the tech involved[03:54:32] <slava> they read press releases, not CS papers[03:54:37] <glick> damn its cold how the hell you turn on the heat in this mofo[03:54:40] <slava> Cow_woC: i agree[03:54:42] <slava> Cow_woC: regexes are unreadable[03:54:43] *** fandeholly has quit IRC[03:54:51] * glick looks at his aincient radiator with no clue as how to turn it on[03:54:58] <Garibaldi> slava: is it possible to have a great language with great press spin[03:55:15] <glick> a good language doesnt need to be marketed[03:55:27] <slava> a langauge should not aspire to be popular[03:55:27] <jwormy> poor delphi.[03:55:29] <vinse> regex is my primary example of how readability is overrated[03:55:37] <slava> why is popularity important?[03:55:49] <glick> delphi didnt fill any niche[03:55:54] <glick> thats why delphi didnt go anywhere[03:56:02] <vinse> slava: a perception of broad adoption and support is extremely important for a language[03:56:07] <slava> vinse: why?[03:56:09] <MrPrimate> who cares whether it's marketed? Java would have been popular either way, it is a revolutionary thing.[03:56:11] <vinse> in every sense but hte most academic[03:56:16] <glick> C, C++, perl, fortran, heck even slobol, eh i mean cobol fill niches[03:56:36] <vinse> slava: i'm not saying there's good reasons for it, but it's true[03:56:36] <slava> i'm sure many language communities would not want the majority of their users, and majority who decides the direction of the language, to consist o mangers and enterprise coders[03:56:59] <vinse> slava: it's a fair trade if you want to be a popular language[03:57:01] <slava> MrPrimate: java was obsolete when it was released[03:57:03] <vinse> you cant get by w/o that stuff[03:57:16] <rogue-kun{B}|Awa> Kon'ban wa minna 8)[03:57:21] *** rogue-kun{B}|Awa is now known as rogue-kun{B}[03:57:28] <slava> vinse: but that trade dooms you to having an inferior language[03:57:34] <slava> hence, my point holds[03:57:38] <MrPrimate> slava, hah... well that's amusing, but really, Java is a neat and original concept if you ask me[03:57:54] <slava> MrPrimate: smalltalk was around in 1996, with bytecode VM, reflection, class browser, etc[03:58:00] <vinse> slava: i'm not really arguing with you, i'm saying a language can be EITHER "pure" or widely adopted[03:58:10] <vinse> there's a good chance the two are mutually exclusive[03:58:24] <rogue-kun{B}> slava: smalltake was apple right?[03:58:29] <slava> no[03:58:37] *** nater has quit IRC[03:58:39] <vinse> smalltake: it just takes a little![03:58:45] <Cow_woC> :)[03:59:01] <rogue-kun{B}> vinse 8T[03:59:03] <MrPrimate> slava, slava yeah but Java was called Oak and exist around the same time as smalltalk[03:59:13] <slava> MrPrimate: smalltalk existed since the 80's[03:59:27] <slava> and java still doesn't have some smalltalk features, like full live code reloading (hotswap in 1.3+ is almost there but not quite)[03:59:43] <glick> damn my apt is freezing![03:59:48] <Uviz> slava, Make that 70's unless you are talking about "Smalltalk80".[03:59:52] <MrPrimate> slava, ok, but smalltalk is going to depend on native system stuff,[03:59:54] <glick> jesus christ![03:59:56] <glick> its cold[04:00:00] <slava> MrPrimate: squeak smalltalk is portable...[04:00:06] <MrPrimate> slava, am I going to be able to write, in smalltalk, a web browser that runs on a Windows machine and a Mac ?[04:00:11] <Uviz> glick, Where do you live?[04:00:12] <slava> MrPrimate: java did not introduce portability[04:00:17] <glick> Uviz, in philadelphia[04:00:20] <rogue-kun{B}> Anyway I'm right the is no unggoing question right now, just slava's standing purists debate?[04:00:31] <glick> a.k.a the city of brother shove[04:00:36] <MrPrimate> slava, how does smalltalk draw a window on either operating system ?[04:00:42] <Uviz> glick, I see. Hah.[04:00:47] <slava> MrPrimate: all major smalltalks are portable[04:00:47] <MrPrimate> slava, does smalltalk have a runtime like java that draws windows and things ?[04:00:53] <glick> i wish i was in seattle[04:00:54] <slava> MrPrimate: squeak (free), visual works ($$$)[04:01:03] <slava> MrPrimate: both have portable gui toolkits, like swing[04:01:20] <MrPrimate> slava, but in order to distribute it, you have to clump together a bunch of random components,[04:01:21] <slava> MrPrimate: i stand by my point that java did not introduce anything new[04:01:22] <glick> damn i got a networking exam tomorrow[04:01:26] <slava> MrPrimate: no that's not correct[04:01:37] <slava> MrPrimate: both of them bundle the GUI toolkit[04:01:39] <rogue-kun{B}> Question: is it possible to chnage the contents of a JList after creation?[04:01:46] <slava> rogue-kun{B}: yes[04:01:46] <MrPrimate> slava, where with java, once you have a jre, it runs any (small bytecode) java program without the libraries coming each time[04:01:49] <slava> ~tell rogue-kun{B} about JList[04:01:50] <javabot> rogue-kun{B}, I have no idea what JList is.[04:01:55] <slava> ~tell rogue-kun{B} about javadoc JList[04:01:55] <javabot> rogue-kun{B}, please see javax.swing.JList: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/javax/swing/JList.html[04:02:03] <Uviz> MrPrimate, Try Squeak, it has a very strong community. Smalltalk users are like a cult. We have a very good squeak channel on this network #squeak[04:02:06] <slava> tell rogue-kun{B} about javadoc ListModel[04:02:12] <slava> ~tell rogue-kun{B} about javadoc ListModel[04:02:12] <javabot> rogue-kun{B}, please see javax.swing.ListModel: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/javax/swing/ListModel.html[04:02:13] <MrPrimate> slava, so you tell me that if I download smalltalk right now, I can go get a smalltalk program and it will work with a GUI, and they iddn't have to bundle squak with the smalltalk program. ?[04:02:16] <rogue-kun{B}> slava: i been over the API alread I'm stonn green enough not to look at it before asking[04:02:21] <MrPrimate> is there anything written in squeak that doesn't look like crap ?[04:02:21] <glick> maybe i would like java better if it was taught better than it was to me[04:02:25] <glick> i had a bum for a teacher[04:02:28] <rogue-kun{B}> I'm simply not finding it 8([04:02:34] <slava> rogue-kun{B}: DefaultListModel, in fact[04:02:35] <MrPrimate> can anyone show me a smalltalk program that has a ncie interface?[04:02:41] <slava> MrPrimate: bottomfeeder[04:02:51] <glick> MrPrimate, check out freshmeat[04:02:58] <glick> browse by language[04:03:02] <Uviz> MrPrimate, Squeak has its own environment and yes with only one or two lines you can draw windows in Squeak environment.[04:03:06] <rogue-kun{B}> slava ahh look at the Model d'oh[04:03:12] <glick> OCaml is a weird language[04:03:13] <MrPrimate> slava, ok, bottomfeeder isn't as ugly as I thought it would be[04:03:14] <slava> MrPrimate: http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/BottomFeeder/screenshots.html[04:03:22] <slava> MrPrimate: is there anything written in java that doesn't look like crap?[04:03:29] <glick> hehe[04:03:29] <MrPrimate> slava, plenty[04:03:35] <slava> MrPrimate: such as?[04:03:43] <MrPrimate> slava, everything I write :][04:03:44] <slava> MrPrimate: name something that's not an IDE[04:03:54] * glick is not a big fan of IDEs[04:03:57] <MrPrimate> slava, just look at some of the modern java games[04:04:04] <slava> MrPrimate: java games? hahahahaahahahahahahahahha[04:04:26] <slava> MrPrimate: games have their own graphics anyway[04:04:35] <slava> MrPrimate: you can take the same graphics and rewrite the game in any langauge, it will look the same[04:04:36] * Garibaldi thinks some folks here think waaaay too much of their own opinions[04:04:51] <glick> when SUN writes a graphics engine in Java that everyone is dying for, ill change my mind about java[04:04:57] <jwormy> Garibaldi, yea.. so i think clemson sucks ;)[04:04:57] <MrPrimate> slava, I am just afraid with smalltalk you only get stuck with some little squeak[04:05:01] <slava> except some of our opinions are based on years of experience and research, and others just repeat what they read in an enterprise press release[04:05:16] <slava> making any discussion pointless[04:05:17] <tanq> i know that the FA22 flight simulator is written in java[04:05:33] <Garibaldi> slava: yeah, and this guy on the tv is using science to prove the fact that ghosts exist[04:05:45] <tanq> it was demonstrated at the fort worth JUG a 2-3 years ago..[04:06:17] <tanq> and if you think of what has to go into a real flight simulator. I would say its worth something...[04:06:18] <MrPrimate> slava, can this be made with smalltalk > http://www.javazoom.net/jlgui/jlgui.html or would it be faster to do with Java ?[04:06:35] <slava> it can be made in smalltalk, why not?[04:06:40] <slava> or any language with a decent gui interface[04:06:40] <Uviz> MrPrimate, Squeak is a great environment to introduce the kids to programming; just ask Allen Kay. :)[04:06:47] <slava> and a sound api[04:06:56] <glick> i dont get what your arguing about every language has its pros and cons[04:07:05] <jwormy> i say since we are in java... we just talk about java... and forget about this smalltalk[04:07:06] <Garibaldi> you're*[04:07:17] <MrPrimate> slava, I just didn't have any idea that smalltalk had any graphical capabilities without requiring the product to include a slew of libraries[04:07:18] <glick> lets skip the smalltalk[04:07:24] <MrPrimate> hahah[04:07:31] <slava> MrPrimate: then you're wrong... simple as that[04:07:39] <MrPrimate> slava, yeah, I was assuming this[04:07:40] <glick> what about logo?[04:07:45] <MrPrimate> logo owns[04:07:49] <glick> heh[04:07:52] <MrPrimate> logo can do in just a few lines of code,[04:07:56] <MrPrimate> what it takes slava yeasrs to develop[04:08:03] <slava> what?[04:08:07] <MrPrimate> sorry ;)[04:08:10] <cheeser> this is java how?[04:08:19] <glick> my java prof asked the class what languages they had experiance with, and i raised my hand and said logo[04:08:35] <glick> the entire class thought it was funny except him, who didnt get it[04:08:45] <Cow_woC> cheeser: moo[04:08:45] <slava> CS profs are stupid[04:08:49] <glick> i realized immediatly that this guy was a moron, and that the class would suck[04:08:51] <glick> and i was right[04:08:55] <cheeser> 'sup, Cow_woC ?[04:09:15] <Uviz> MrPrimate, http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/683[04:09:25] <Cow_woC> cheeser: same old ... Hibernating[04:09:33] <slava> those screenshots are so old[04:09:33] <cheeser> i hear ya.[04:09:47] <Cow_woC> cheeser: Gavin is being an ass yet again, check this... http://opensource2.atlassian.com/projects/hibernate/browse/HHH-1054?page=all[04:09:48] <MrPrimate> Uviz, I have to say that a lot of those screenshots are very ugly[04:10:13] <slava> well the api can draw any geometric primitive, so its a question of what the programmer chose to call[04:10:21] <slava> just like java apps are sometimes ugly[04:10:34] <MrPrimate> slava, but then the programmer must write everything, and there is a point to use Java[04:10:35] <Cow_woC> cheeser: he introduced a regression into Hibernate 3.1 that works back in 3.05 whereby Session.reload() throws ConcurrentModificationException. And he rejected the bug report.[04:10:40] <cheeser> slava: well, metal helps things look uglier than need be... 8^)=[04:10:41] <MrPrimate> slava, because I can get it done today, instead of next month[04:10:49] <Uviz> MrPrimate, That wasn't meant to be an eye grabber. Just to your comment with regard to lack of graphical capabilities.[04:11:02] <glick> im currently in talks with SUN to get a license of their JAVA CPU core[04:11:06] <slava> MrPrimate: again, if you know next to nothing about it, how can you compare development speed?[04:11:08] <MrPrimate> Uviz, that's what I imagined smalltalk /squak programs might look like....[04:11:50] <MrPrimate> slava, well I will agree that Java API has a lot of flaws, can you at least admit that it is fairly extensive ?[04:11:56] <cheeser> Cow_woC: nice.[04:12:01] <slava> MrPrimate: sure, but i don't need most of the crap it has[04:12:01] <Uviz> MrPrimate, That's just a few random shots. Remember you are not looking at Doom 3 demo.[04:12:07] <slava> javax.outsourcing, javax.management.xml.webservices, etc[04:12:14] <cheeser> brb...[04:12:31] <MrPrimate> Uviz, right, and of course you could probably write a gtk app with smalltalk if you wanted to, but I was trying to talk about portablish[04:12:35] <slava> MrPrimate: for programming tasks that are mostly algorithmic, and not plugging together existing libraries, an extensive API is not much help[04:12:43] *** Ginsu_Squirrel has joined ##java[04:12:44] <MrPrimate> slava, agreed.[04:12:56] <MrPrimate> slava, and so for that task, Java is probably not the one you want[04:13:17] <slava> so then you agree that java is only for trivial programs?[04:13:22] <slava> beucase i'm sure that was not your point[04:13:26] <MrPrimate> slava, that depends on what you consider trivial[04:13:34] <MrPrimate> slava, trivial is based on your perspective[04:13:34] <slava> enterprise programming is trivial[04:13:42] <MrPrimate> slava, your IRC client could be written in Java[04:13:51] <MrPrimate> slava, I wouldn't find that to be a bad thing[04:13:52] <slava> writing web/rmi front ends to relational databases is trivial[04:13:59] <Ginsu_Squirrel> i have 3 compareable objects, what is the easiest way to find the smallest?[04:14:03] <slava> my irc client is written in objective C... its colloquy for the mac[04:14:05] <glick> god you guys are still arguing over what could best be written in what language?[04:14:12] <MrPrimate> slava, and so what's non-trivial program ?[04:14:33] *** cored has joined ##java[04:14:35] <MrPrimate> slava, the kernel... yes... we can't write that one in java :)[04:14:37] <slava> MrPrimate: a game doing heavy graphics and AI, numerical simulations, compilers, etc[04:14:51] <cored> hi all[04:14:56] <MrPrimate> slava, a game doing heavy graphics uses JavaGL (native OpenGL), so that takes a lot of the hit[04:15:08] <MrPrimate> slava, and you would have to use native code for anything super hardcore[04:15:15] <slava> MrPrimate: i'm not talking about performance, but the ease with which one can implement complex algorithms[04:15:25] <MrPrimate> slava, but if it saves enough time, then wrap the native stuff in Java and write the oopy parts in java[04:15:54] <MrPrimate> slava, ok... i'll take your word for it, and i'll know myself when I try out more languages that you've described[04:15:57] <slava> i already said java's performance is quite good[04:16:11] *** NSA has joined ##java[04:16:14] <slava> you don't need to use JNI for performance-critical parts anymore[04:16:19] <MrPrimate> slava, yeah I don't even know syntax of lisp or smalltalk, so we'll end our conversation here[04:18:03] <MrPrimate> slava, quick question... do you think the way that Java does streams and serialization and things of that nature are useful?[04:18:11] *** delvinj has joined ##java[04:18:12] <MrPrimate> slava, I find those types of things to be monumentally useful[04:18:32] <glick> MrPrimate, to set up a steam in java is a pain in the neck to me[04:18:40] <slava> MrPrimate: i think streams are fine, serialization is not so great[04:18:40] <glick> have to set up buffered readers[04:18:43] <glick> and do this and do that[04:19:03] <slava> MrPrimate: streams are not integrated with collections[04:19:07] <MrPrimate> slava, but serialization is cool to move data around between different machines, or (maybe) to store it[04:19:16] <slava> MrPrimate: the idea is fine, but its implemented badly[04:19:54] <MrPrimate> slava, I think it's cool that in a few lines of Java code, I can open a socket, get a stream, serialize my object and send it to another machine....[04:20:27] <MrPrimate> and if I decide to take my stream from a file or from something else it doesn't matter[04:20:46] <slava> what if the serialization format was human readable text, eliminating the need for expensive object construction code and declarative XML configuration?[04:21:01] <MrPrimate> slava, but then it's so bulky[04:21:10] <slava> what if streams and iterators were the same thing? what if you could connect streams like pipes, with processing blocks in between? etc[04:21:12] <MrPrimate> slava, serialization could have two formats, machine or human readable[04:21:21] <cheeser> in fact, it does![04:21:27] <slava> XMLEncoder[04:21:31] <Garibaldi> cheeser++[04:21:33] <slava> but you can't embed XML objects in your source code[04:21:43] <cheeser> 8^)=[04:22:17] <cheeser> slava: wait until 1.7 when they'll mangle the java language even more with entities (hehe) to directly manipulate XML in the language[04:22:27] <slava> what are entities? got a url?[04:22:42] <cored> cheeser: hm, just like LINQ[04:22:49] <cheeser> they're talking of adding, um..., language constructs to java to manipulate xml.[04:22:54] <cored> cheeser: its looks like Sun is just going behind .NET[04:22:57] <slava> that might not be a bad idea[04:22:59] <cheeser> basically, putting the DOM directly into the languge.[04:23:04] <cheeser> what i saw wasn't pretty.[04:23:16] <cheeser> it was in some sun developer's blog a month or two back.[04:23:18] <slava> in lisp any object has a literal syntax in the language[04:23:25] <slava> its great for doing declarative configuration[04:23:36] <MrPrimate> did they have try{}catch{} blocks before Java ?[04:23:39] <slava> MrPrimate: yes[04:23:42] <cheeser> now that, would be handy. but it didn't look to be quite like that.[04:23:46] <cheeser> s/,//[04:23:50] <Garibaldi> MrPrimate: yes[04:23:53] <Garibaldi> C++[04:23:56] <slava> even before C++[04:24:02] <Cow_woC> finally?[04:24:06] <slava> yup[04:24:09] <Cow_woC> well anyway[04:24:14] <Cow_woC> Java's value is not in "new features"[04:24:22] <cheeser> java is by no means revolutionary.[04:24:23] <Cow_woC> but rather in packaging a lot of preexisting stuff in the right place[04:24:28] <slava> java's security model is new[04:24:32] <Garibaldi> since C++ was before Java, I didn't really see any necessity to enumerate every other language that had it[04:24:34] <cheeser> slava: true[04:24:36] <slava> with fine-grained permissions, etc[04:24:40] <MrPrimate> I thought Java was the first one to really do the virtual machine with the bytecode and everything[04:24:47] <slava> MrPrimate: no, that was lisp[04:24:56] <cheeser> oh, that's true.[04:24:58] <MrPrimate> slava, lisp has a virtual machine ?[04:24:58] <cheeser> and python.[04:25:13] <slava> MrPrimate: they didn't call it that, but yes. a live environment with GC, reflection, code loading[04:25:25] <MrPrimate> slava, and you hate VMs :)[04:25:29] <slava> MrPrimate: why?[04:25:34] <slava> that's glick[04:25:39] <MrPrimate> slava, ah, sorry[04:25:45] <slava> i hate statically compiled langauges like C++ :)[04:26:02] <MrPrimate> slava, oh, yeah, interesting[04:26:11] <cheeser> what does Martin Short know about VMs anyway[04:29:02] *** asian has joined ##java[04:29:05] *** puff has joined ##java[04:29:06] <puff> hi all.[04:29:32] <asian> would someone give me advice on: how could i check from a thread who is running it? can i get the object of the parent?[04:29:57] <puff> asian: ThreadGroup?[04:30:02] <puff> asian: theadlocal variables?[04:30:57] <puff> I'm trying to troubleshoot a JNDI issue; server reports that the database context we're looking up isn't there, but we're pretty sure it is; trying to write a bit of code right now to traverse the JNDI tree and show me what *it* thinks is there... which is turning out to be a pain in the ass. Anybody know of some boilerplate code to do this?[04:31:44] <puff> And 2) are there any features in eclipse or IDEA 4.5 that would help me "lint" a codebase for failure to close JDBC connections, resultsets, statements, etc?[04:31:59] <slava> heh[04:32:39] <slava> C#'s 'using' feature is intended to prevent resource leaks[04:33:04] *** sleek has quit IRC[04:35:56] *** Azrael_- has quit IRC[04:37:00] *** Stork is now known as stork[04:38:32] *** Rene_ has quit IRC[04:39:12] *** glick has quit IRC[04:42:59] *** Amnesiac has joined ##java[04:48:16] <puff> slava: Yeah, I'm actually pretty sure that all instances are closed, etc, I'm just looking for a cheap way to rule it out.[04:48:32] <slava> you can't, its a limitation of java[04:51:35] *** phuriku has quit IRC[04:52:24] <puff> slava: Hm?[04:52:43] <slava> there's no language construct to guarantee that a resource is allocated and freed in the same scope[04:52:44] *** kazzmir has left ##java[04:52:44] <puff> slava: Well, eclipse and idea have all of these options for style, etc, it's worth asking about.[04:53:15] <puff> slava: Or a more limited form... I'd like some sort of structured scripting language for java source.[04:53:22] <puff> sort of like regexp but for language constructs.[04:53:29] <puff> Find me any method that returns a ResultSet.[04:53:31] <puff> etc.[04:53:58] <puff> find me any method invocation that is passing in a ResultSet.[04:54:05] <slava> i meant something like withStream(stream = new FileInputStream("foo.txt")) { stream.write("foo"); }[04:54:15] <slava> where the stream is closed automatically, even if an exception is thrown, etc[04:57:53] <puff> Ah... yeah, that would be cool.[04:58:02] *** Sancezz has quit IRC[05:00:27] *** Goosemoose has joined ##java[05:03:40] *** Ginsu_Squirrel has left ##java[05:03:49] *** rogue-kun{B} is now known as rogue-kun{B}|Awa[05:07:06] *** vincenz has joined ##java[05:08:50] *** aliveuser has joined ##java[05:11:35] <asian> how does a class print its own name? generically (via java.lang.Class)[05:16:05] *** rizzo_ has joined ##java[05:17:47] *** nater has joined ##java[05:18:49] <Cow_woC> asian: println(foo.getClass().getName())[05:25:33] *** talios has left ##java[05:28:42] <asian> i have a JFrame printing to stdout on a Timer event, when i close the JFrame with the [x] in the window manager the events stop[05:29:04] <asian> when i click on my close button, i call dispose(), the frame closes but the events continue to print the stdout[05:29:12] <asian> how can i terminate my app completely?[05:30:39] <asian> ok, i decided to call timer.stop in the close event[05:30:40] <asian> =)[05:30:49] <asian> but...i was wondering if there was a better way[05:31:47] *** MrPrimate has left ##java[05:32:14] *** prolificgnosis has joined ##JAVA[05:32:23] <prolificgnosis> anyone home?[05:32:34] <delvinj> no im at work[05:32:37] <prolificgnosis> sweet[05:33:10] <prolificgnosis> in the rectangle class, is there anyway to draw it so that the rectangle grows from the bottom left instead of top left[05:33:26] <delvinj> yes[05:33:31] <prolificgnosis> so the bottom left is 00[05:33:35] <prolificgnosis> (0,0)[05:33:41] <delvinj> well, not like that[05:33:51] <delvinj> you still have to use awt's coordinate system[05:34:02] <prolificgnosis> go on[05:34:13] <delvinj> are you using Rectangle2D[05:34:15] <delvinj> ?[05:34:20] <prolificgnosis> yes[05:34:28] <slava> use an affine transform to remap the co-ordinate system[05:34:38] <pr3d4t0r> ::Zooooooooom!::[05:34:42] <slava> what you want is basically a reflection along the x axis[05:34:55] <IMTheNachoMan> hello everyone[05:35:05] <prolificgnosis> can u send me a link on affine transform[05:35:11] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r you almost got me in trouble at work today[05:35:14] <slava> ~tell prolificgnosis about javadoc AffineTransform[05:35:14] <javabot> prolificgnosis, please see java.awt.geom.AffineTransform: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/awt/geom/AffineTransform.html[05:35:22] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r[05:35:24] *** prolificgnosis was kicked by pr3d4t0r (pr3d4t0r)[05:35:29] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r[05:35:31] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: How so?[05:35:44] *** prolificgnosis has joined ##java[05:35:51] * pr3d4t0r eyes prolificgnosis[05:35:58] <prolificgnosis> can you post that again?[05:36:10] <prolificgnosis> what pr, i'm just getting information[05:36:13] <slava> ~tell prolificgnosis about javadoc AffineTransform[05:36:13] <javabot> prolificgnosis, please see java.awt.geom.AffineTransform: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/awt/geom/AffineTransform.html[05:36:31] <prolificgnosis> appreciate it[05:37:10] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r to put it short, at work we now have to text message managers and what not, and when there is a big prob we text message back and forth a lot, text messages have to be short and coincice, and i kept saying 'your' but the guidelines at work say we have to short-cut stuff like 'u' for 'you' so my manager got mad[05:37:19] <IMTheNachoMan> cuase now im getting in the habbit of saying 'you' instead of 'u'[05:37:20] <IMTheNachoMan> heh[05:37:29] <IMTheNachoMan> its not really your fault just thought it was funny[05:38:07] *** brown_cow has joined ##java[05:38:14] <slava> managers are stupid[05:38:19] <IMTheNachoMan> they used to carry pagers that could take 500 char messages, but now they use nextel celphones, can only take a max of i think 20 chars so we have to keep it short[05:38:29] <IMTheNachoMan> slava they wouldnt be managers if they were stupid[05:38:34] <IMTheNachoMan> they musta done something right[05:38:36] <slava> ~IMTheNachoMan++[05:38:36] <javabot> imthenachoman has a karma level of 0, slava[05:38:37] <asian> anyone here know threads? what if a thread is foolish enough to ignore the interrupt? how do i force kill?[05:38:43] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: It's not my fault if your manager is a retard.[05:38:50] <asian> everything supporting this seems to be deprecated[05:39:02] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r i didnt say it was your fault, i just thought it was funny, had to share[05:39:12] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Ah :)[05:39:19] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: IMTheNachoMan++[05:39:20] <javabot> imthenachoman has a karma level of 1, pr3d4t0r[05:39:37] <slava> dumb-ass chewing gum chewing, pen-twirling, gelled back hair MBA motherfuckers[05:39:51] * IMTheNachoMan can breath now as he is above water[05:40:01] <IMTheNachoMan> well i wanna be a manger one day (i hope)[05:40:01] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: You know, I was talking to a books marketing editor and we saw a letter from someone, asking her to stock a book, written with aolbonics. That was the sorriest piece of shit I've ever seen.[05:40:07] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: She was laughing for an hour.[05:40:18] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Management is overrated.[05:40:33] <slava> pr3d4t0r: some workers need a lot of hand-holding.[05:40:34] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r tell them to give me a book, il convert it for them[05:40:35] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: I'm a manager, have been a manager in various incarnations... it's OKi.[05:40:41] <slava> pr3d4t0r: they can't/won't take initiative and do things on their own.[05:40:45] *** silasj has joined ##java[05:40:45] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: He, he, he...[05:40:52] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r i dont want to be a manager manager, i want to be more of a lead, like lead programmer[05:40:54] <IMTheNachoMan> and what not[05:40:55] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Then they should STFU.[05:41:05] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: That's what I'll do next.[05:41:18] <IMTheNachoMan> well its not a managers job to do things on there own, a manager, well....manages[05:41:21] * slava is a lead programmer in a team of 1[05:41:24] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: I give myself another year at work, then I'll leave the coop.[05:41:42] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: My guys have awesome numbers this year, higher than they every reported.[05:41:49] <IMTheNachoMan> im to young to know what my plans are, right now im just taking in knowledge, learning, gaining experience[05:41:58] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: We're delivering at 2.5 times the rate than any other group.[05:42:08] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: I know because I had my quarterly review today :)[05:42:14] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r see thats exactly soemthing a manager would worry about, heh[05:42:16] <prolificgnosis> wait when i create a rectangle, is the upper left hand corner (0,0)[05:42:21] <cored> IMTheNachoMan: how old are you ?[05:42:29] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r yeah my manager was pretty excited bout that, but then if he does a bad job his job gets out-sourced so[05:42:33] <IMTheNachoMan> cored 22[05:42:38] <cored> IMTheNachoMan: yes too young[05:42:46] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: That's the thing. While everyone else is worried about attending meetings, doing paperwork, playing politics, etc. my guys and I are worried about getting shit done.[05:42:48] <IMTheNachoMan> cored just joined the corp world, im still tryin to get a hold of things[05:43:02] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Chin up.[05:43:02] <cored> i see[05:43:05] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r yeah same with my manager[05:43:05] <prolificgnosis> wait when i create a rectangle, is the upper left hand corner (0,0)[05:43:15] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: By 23 I'd had managed a team of six and sold a company to IBM :)[05:43:30] <IMTheNachoMan> some of the b.s. in the corp world just baffles me[05:43:44] <prolificgnosis> uh can anyone answer that?[05:43:49] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: prolificgnosis What's up?[05:43:58] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r if i had worked harder in collge and high school i might have had the same, but i played to much, payin for it now[05:44:00] <pr3d4t0r> prolificgnosis: What's up? Sorry, typing too fast.[05:44:01] <prolificgnosis> wait when i create a rectangle, is the upper left hand corner (0,0)[05:44:22] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: I didn't start having fun until I turned 27 or so.[05:44:35] <slava> prolificgnosis: i told you already.[05:44:50] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r ah, well i got 5 year then; although i am sorta having fun right now, if i can finish this chat client at work that should impress my boss a lot[05:44:57] <slava> prolificgnosis: change the co-ordinate system by setting the affine transform to an appropriate matrix that remaps homogeneous co-ordinates as you require.[05:44:59] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: I was too busy before paying for the university, establishing my business, etc.[05:45:19] <asian> anyone have a recommend light weight window message wrapper? to just get an ok box up?[05:45:19] <slava> pr3d4t0r: one day we should start a company together :)[05:45:31] <prolificgnosis> yes but i need to know where (0,0) lies originally so i know where to push the coordinate[05:45:32] <pr3d4t0r> asian: JOptionPane.[05:45:35] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r, funny they say college is to learn about the real world, sad thing is, after 4 years and a lot of money, i still had to learn a lot of stuff my self, how to manage expenses was one of them[05:45:40] <pr3d4t0r> slava: You're wimping out on me ;)[05:45:50] <pr3d4t0r> slava: I already tried to get you involved in a couple of things.[05:45:57] *** mohadib has quit IRC[05:45:59] <slava> pr3d4t0r: something not involving java.[05:46:00] <IMTheNachoMan> slava how old are you?[05:46:04] <pr3d4t0r> slava: If you don't hurry I'll be out of the industry by the time you say 'yeah'.[05:46:04] <slava> IMTheNachoMan: 21[05:46:06] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r how old are you?[05:46:10] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: 38.[05:46:21] <IMTheNachoMan> slava wow, impressive, makes me look pathetic i suppose[05:46:47] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: If you want to kick arse at programming, listen to slava.[05:47:01] <slava> IMTheNachoMan: why is my age impressive?[05:47:06] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: If you want to get in the startup game, I may be able to tell you a thing or two.[05:47:16] <IMTheNachoMan> slava you have accomplished a lot (jedit)[05:47:17] <slava> if you want to have no money listen to slava[05:47:27] <slava> if you want to drive a bentley listen to pr3d4t0r[05:47:29] <pr3d4t0r> slava: You'll make your pile.[05:47:46] <pr3d4t0r> slava: I'm waiting for you to kick Wolfram's arse first.[05:47:54] <IMTheNachoMan> slava hahahah but see when i saw jedit and learned a guy, one guy, someone like me, wrote it, it gave me a lot of, humm ambition[05:48:14] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: IMTheNachoMan[05:48:14] <javabot> pr3d4t0r, I have no idea what IMTheNachoMan is.[05:48:36] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: IMTheNachoMan is slava's number one grouppie and soon we'll take us all out to dinner.[05:48:36] <javabot> Okay, pr3d4t0r.[05:48:37] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: you owned your own company at age 23?[05:48:47] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: No, I sold it when I was 23.[05:48:48] <slava> that's pretty impressive[05:48:58] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: I know, but you owned it?[05:48:58] <IMTheNachoMan> i used to think, ahh nobody can do something like that (since nobody i knew could) so i used to not try hard you know, after jedit, things changed for me[05:49:05] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r haha[05:49:08] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Yeah.[05:49:10] <Cow_woC> cool[05:49:14] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: when did you start it?[05:49:18] <Cow_woC> how old were you then?[05:49:27] <slava> IMTheNachoMan: i know an 18 year old taht does linux kernel programming[05:49:39] <prolificgnosis> ok i really need someone undivided attention for five minutes[05:49:40] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Unofficially when I was 17; officially when I turned 19.[05:49:47] * IMTheNachoMan feels 9 inch small[05:49:51] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: 38.[05:49:53] * slava feels 9 inches large[05:50:30] <prolificgnosis> using rectangle, how do I get the rectangle to grow starting from the bottom left corner instead of bottom right[05:50:34] <IMTheNachoMan> naw, i think il be all right, i just gota finish this chat/server program and that should get my name around at work[05:50:43] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: http://eugeneciurana.com/about.html[05:50:49] <vinse> ~IMTheNachoMan[05:50:50] <javabot> vinse, IMTheNachoMan is slava's number one grouppie and soon we'll take us all out to dinner.[05:51:00] <vinse> you spelled groupie wrong[05:51:00] <prolificgnosis> affine transform appears to slide the axis[05:51:05] <prolificgnosis> which i'm not sure i want to do[05:51:20] <vinse> pr3d4t0r: and i assume you meant "will" and not "we'll"[05:51:26] <slava> prolificgnosis: affine transforms map x to Tx+y where y is a constant vector, and T is a linear transform.[05:51:43] <prolificgnosis> can you break it down?[05:51:45] <slava> prolificgnosis: this includes translations, rotations, reflections, shearing, or any composition of the above[05:51:55] *** mohadib_ has joined ##java[05:51:57] <slava> prolificgnosis: x is your 2-d vector[05:52:00] <slava> prolificgnosis: T is a 2x2 matrix[05:52:02] *** silasj has quit IRC[05:52:16] <slava> prolificgnosis: that's what the transform does; it specifies a matrix to multiply each point you draw by, then adds another 2-d translation[05:52:37] <slava> prolificgnosis: eg, a reflection in the x axis (what you are after) is T=((1 0) (0 -1))[05:52:47] <IMTheNachoMan> ok well i think il get back to lookin through slava's jedit source code to figure out how he did something (im assuming slava wont mind)[05:52:57] <slava> IMTheNachoMan: the jedit code is not that good[05:53:14] <prolificgnosis> hmmmm hold on let me see if i can understand all that[05:53:15] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: maybe I should hire you for consultation or something... my company is going nowhere fast[05:53:28] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: I'm 8 months into it with an income of $0/hour[05:53:51] <asian> pr3d4t0r: thanx, that works great (JOptionPane)[05:53:58] <IMTheNachoMan> well im just trying to figure out what you meant by that advice you gave me and it appears you did the same for jedit so im tryin to break it down, having a hard time though, spent bout 2 hours on it this morn[05:54:09] <prolificgnosis> ok so when I originally create a rectangle, the middle of the rectangle is (0,0)?[05:54:11] <slava> IMTheNachoMan: oh this is about the custom component?[05:54:15] <slava> prolificgnosis: no[05:54:20] <IMTheNachoMan> slava yeah....[05:54:22] <slava> prolificgnosis: its hard to explain this stuff over irc[05:54:32] <prolificgnosis> i know but i need to visualize it[05:54:38] <IMTheNachoMan> prolificgnosis what you trying to do now?[05:54:39] <slava> prolificgnosis: the best advice i can give you is picking up a linear algebra book, 1st or 2nd year college level. they cover all this stuff[05:54:57] <prolificgnosis> k i haven't taken linear algebra, next semester lol[05:55:37] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Not for a year... but thanks :)[05:55:56] <prolificgnosis> i understand what the transformation does, once I transform will I be able to access everything using only positive values[05:56:05] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: If you know someone who works in the US TV or feature film industry production and can hook me up with an introduction, we can talk :)[05:56:35] <prolificgnosis> ohhhhhhhhhhhh okay got u[05:56:41] <pr3d4t0r> asian: Any time :)[05:56:43] <prolificgnosis> (1 0) (0 -1)[05:57:04] <prolificgnosis> omg thanks guys[05:57:07] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Dude![05:57:26] <pr3d4t0r> slava: I'm having ginger tisane with Siberian pine nut honey.[05:58:00] <slava> prolificgnosis: in homogeneous co-ordinates, that is (1 0 0) (0 -1 0) (0 0 1)[05:58:27] <slava> prolificgnosis: you can express Tx+y as Ax' where x' is a 3-d vector with 3rd component 1, and A is a 3x3 matrix[05:58:32] <slava> prolificgnosis: that's what AffineTransform does[05:59:14] <slava> but its best to think in terms of the T and y separately, since homogeneous co-ordinates are in the projective plane, which you cannot visualize in your head[05:59:23] *** sandstorm has joined ##java[05:59:29] <slava> but they're easier to compute for the graphics library implementation[06:00:04] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r what year is the firebird? or is that a firebird?[06:01:34] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r hah, nevermind, its a pontiac[06:01:36] <IMTheNachoMan> missed htat[06:01:49] <slava> pr3d4t0r: i'm embarrased to say i had a complex analysis midterm today and i did not do very well.[06:02:17] *** deedaw has quit IRC[06:02:55] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: why would you need that? ( US TV or feature film industry production )?[06:03:20] <IMTheNachoMan> Cow_woC look him up on his website, you will see why[06:03:25] <pr3d4t0r> slava: :([06:03:41] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Because that's the business I plan to be in within the next 36 months.[06:04:21] <IMTheNachoMan> Cow_woC http://eugeneciurana.com/about.html[06:04:25] <IMTheNachoMan> i like the comercial[06:04:29] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r ^^^[06:04:40] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: :)[06:04:47] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: That was a sucky experience.[06:04:51] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r and any cool things done to the pontiac firebird?[06:05:00] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: We shot that at the gym. It was cold, at night, the heat didn't work.[06:05:21] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: I had a puncture tonight and put a spare tire on it....[06:06:02] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: you work for Walmart?![06:06:38] <vinse> pr3d4t0r: hey![06:06:43] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Yes.[06:06:45] <pr3d4t0r> vinse![06:06:51] <vinse> pr3d4t0r: fix your IMTheNachoMan factoid![06:06:52] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: is that the big DB you were talking about?[06:07:42] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Huh?[06:07:46] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Yes.[06:07:47] *** Goosemoose has quit IRC[06:07:49] <vinse> pr3d4t0r: spelling and grammar[06:07:50] * IMTheNachoMan feels special, he has a factoid[06:07:54] <pr3d4t0r> ...[06:08:00] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: No comprendo, amigo.[06:08:12] <pr3d4t0r> ~IMTheNachoMan[06:08:13] <javabot> pr3d4t0r, IMTheNachoMan is slava's number one grouppie and soon we'll take us all out to dinner.[06:08:21] <vinse> s/grouppie/groupie[06:08:25] <vinse> s/we'll/will[06:08:26] <pr3d4t0r> ~forget IMTheNachoMan[06:08:27] <javabot> I forgot about imthenachoman, pr3d4t0r.[06:08:53] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: IMTheNachoMan is slava's number one groupie and soon he'll take us all out for sushi.[06:08:53] <javabot> Okay, pr3d4t0r.[06:09:06] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: There.[06:09:07] <vinse> pr3d4t0r: thx ;)[06:09:09] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: that's surprising... why would Walmart have such a huge DB?[06:09:16] <IMTheNachoMan> uhhh[06:09:17] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: ...[06:09:23] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: I'd figure IBM would have something like billions of times bigger?[06:09:24] <IMTheNachoMan> why would they not[06:09:30] <vinse> Cow_woC: you ever been in one of those places? they're huge![06:09:35] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: IBM is a piddly company compared to us.[06:09:40] <Cow_woC> no way[06:09:44] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Dude, Microsoft is a piddly company compared to us.[06:10:01] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Did you know that Wal-Mart is in the Fortune 100?[06:10:02] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: ok, something isn't making sense here... when you say "piddly" ... what are we talking about?[06:10:09] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Did you know that Wal-Mart is in the Fortune 10?[06:10:15] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Did you know that Wal-Mart is in the Fortune 1?[06:10:18] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: financially small? physically small? infrastructure small?[06:10:22] * IMTheNachoMan wants a new z109[06:10:26] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Do you have any idea of how big Wal-Mart is?[06:10:39] <brown_cow> i shop at target, wal-mat sucks.[06:10:40] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: Well, I was/am under the impression that IBM is bigger than Walmart[06:10:45] <Cow_woC> brown_cow: heh[06:10:47] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: LOL[06:10:49] <vinse> it'd be easy to check[06:10:52] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r[06:10:55] <vinse> i'm sure you can look up market cap[06:10:57] *** brown_cow was kicked by pr3d4t0r (pr3d4t0r)[06:10:59] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r[06:11:07] <pr3d4t0r> Where were we?[06:11:07] *** brown_cow has joined ##java[06:11:14] * pr3d4t0r eyes the traitor among us[06:11:15] <Cow_woC> heheh[06:11:18] <Cow_woC> I knew it :)[06:11:37] <brown_cow> don't make me pull out my wal-mart employee discount card[06:11:39] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: you telling me that Walmart is like the biggest company in the world[06:11:40] <Cow_woC> ?[06:11:53] <Cow_woC> brown_cow: call customer support and tell them one of their employees is misbehaving[06:12:10] * Cow_woC grins[06:12:17] *** Baloogan has joined ##java[06:12:26] <Cow_woC> I had a super funny/sad moment today with The Bay[06:12:31] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Wal-Mart is the largest company in the world.[06:12:37] <Baloogan> PLEASE HELP?[06:12:40] <Cow_woC> (which is a big-ass Canadian company btw)[06:12:44] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: What's up?[06:12:51] <Baloogan> give me a sec[06:12:53] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: listen to this one, you're going to find it funny[06:12:55] <Baloogan> with the pastebin[06:13:14] <brown_cow> Cow_woC: i actually got reprimanded once when I brought a target bag to work[06:13:18] <Drone> View Baloogan's post at: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8594[06:13:27] <brown_cow> it contained my lunch, which was made from Wal-mart goods. weird.[06:13:27] *** horros has quit IRC[06:13:29] <Baloogan> That has both my server and client[06:13:32] <Baloogan> Please read though.[06:13:34] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: http://www.fortune.com/fortune/global500/fulllist/0,24394,1,00.html[06:13:40] <Baloogan> And help me fix.[06:14:03] <Cow_woC> I placed a single order consisting of 3 items using my "points". One of the items purchased was paid for half/half meaning that I paid some $$$ and used some points to get it. So after this purchase I get *more* points for the thing I spent money on. I then used those new points to purchase a CD casing (2nd order) and donated the rest of the points to charity. Now ... the next day they decided to process my orders backwards.[06:14:13] <IMTheNachoMan> what is BP?[06:14:18] <Cow_woC> So they process the CD casing, then inform me I don't have enough points for my 1st order...[06:14:27] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Wal-Mart is 3 times bigger than IBM.[06:14:41] <Cow_woC> Took me 2 hours over the phone today to explain to them why the shipping order was important and how this is *their* problem with *their* system, not with me.[06:14:44] <IMTheNachoMan> heh were 53[06:14:46] <IMTheNachoMan> 52[06:14:48] <IMTheNachoMan> bank of america[06:14:50] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: wow, I'm impressed[06:14:52] <Baloogan> Help?[06:14:54] <Baloogan> Anyone?[06:14:55] <Baloogan> RMI?[06:15:04] <Logi> ~tell Baloogan about ask[06:15:04] <javabot> Baloogan, The Ask To Ask protocol wastes more bandwidth than any version of the Ask protocol, so just ask your question.[06:15:06] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: read my above msg :) it'll give you some perspective into why DB transactions are important :) :)[06:15:13] <Baloogan> Logi: See above[06:15:18] <Baloogan> The question is in my pastebin[06:15:21] <Baloogan> Please help[06:15:27] * Logi goes to catch the bus to the airport[06:15:31] *** mazon has quit IRC[06:15:40] <IMTheNachoMan> what company is BP?[06:15:44] *** |^JaMeS^| has joined ##java[06:15:53] *** littlezoper has left ##java[06:15:53] <Logi> IMTheNachoMan: British Petrolium[06:16:05] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: British Petroleum.[06:16:16] *** GarethTheGreat has quit IRC[06:16:20] <Garibaldi> IMTheNachoMan: British Petroleum.[06:16:20] <IMTheNachoMan> oh[06:16:24] <IMTheNachoMan> microsoft isnt evenon the list[06:17:09] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Microsoft is not among the top 100 companies, no.[06:17:10] *** Azrael_- has joined ##java[06:17:14] <IMTheNachoMan> but wait im confused, this is done by revenue, not by profit, wouldnt it make more sense to do by profit[06:17:20] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r wow did not know that[06:17:25] * IMTheNachoMan finds out how naive he actually is[06:17:40] <cored> later[06:17:40] *** cored has quit IRC[06:18:43] <IMTheNachoMan> ok something is up, i know for a fact one of these numbers is wrong[06:18:43] <pr3d4t0r> brown_cow: Part of my job consists of getting the latest thing from our competitors or potential competitors, see how it works, and devise strategies for it.[06:19:04] <pr3d4t0r> brown_cow: So I have no problems with bringing things with others' labels at work :)[06:19:23] <pr3d4t0r> brown_cow: I don't think anyone in the building would have a problem, actually. It would be silly.[06:19:50] <|^JaMeS^|> hehe[06:20:01] <pr3d4t0r> brown_cow: If you read Sam Walton's biography, he used to spend lots and lots of time at his *competitors* stores, figuring out what they did well, what they did poorly, and learning from both.[06:20:39] <asian> hello - when my Timer has an event, my gui loses focus...its annoying, can any suggest a solution?[06:21:00] <|^JaMeS^|> throw it out the window[06:21:14] <asian> throw it out the window?[06:21:14] <brown_cow> pr3d4t0r: well, i no longer work there. i now sell books at borders. plenty of java books to read :)[06:21:39] <IMTheNachoMan> great place to meet women, a book store[06:22:03] <brown_cow> IMTheNachoMan: yep. and if its a book store with a cafe, even better[06:22:05] *** FaeLLe has quit IRC[06:22:19] <IMTheNachoMan> ok i have a question[06:22:24] <|^JaMeS^|> i got slapped alot by women at the bookstore[06:22:25] <|^JaMeS^|> hehe[06:22:28] <IMTheNachoMan> sorta complex i think, plese bear with me[06:22:37] <IMTheNachoMan> james why?[06:22:47] <asian> |^JaMeS^|: what do you mean 'throw it out the window' ?[06:23:08] <Baloogan> Anyone with quite a bit of RMI knowlege please say so.[06:23:13] <Baloogan> I have a simple simple problem.[06:23:15] *** Talden has quit IRC[06:23:25] <Baloogan> But I need some RMI guru help.[06:23:26] <IMTheNachoMan> what is RMI again?[06:23:32] *** asac_ has joined ##java[06:23:32] <Baloogan> Remote Method invocation.[06:23:36] <nater> remote[06:23:42] <nater> yeah.. what baloogan said[06:23:45] *** asac has quit IRC[06:23:47] <IMTheNachoMan> ~RMI[06:23:48] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, RMI is Remote Method Invocation or http://java.sun.com/tutorial/rmi[06:23:50] *** asac_ is now known as asac[06:24:02] <Baloogan> So. Anyone to help?[06:24:13] *** Terr1 has quit IRC[06:25:31] <Baloogan> nater: You know much about RMI?[06:26:03] <IMTheNachoMan> would a chat room (client/server) have any use for RMI?[06:26:07] <nater> not yet... will be doing that part of my program in a couple days if jmf isn't suiting my needs[06:26:14] *** vinse has quit IRC[06:26:14] *** alex777 has quit IRC[06:26:16] <nater> imthenachoman: depends[06:26:58] <Baloogan> jmf?[06:27:05] <nater> java media framework[06:27:10] <IMTheNachoMan> nater: im trying to think of an example where i would but i cant think of one, you got one?[06:27:11] <Baloogan> IS that like RMI?[06:27:27] <IMTheNachoMan> no[06:27:33] <IMTheNachoMan> i used it for my video chat program[06:27:48] <nater> actually, no i won't be doing any rmi... brainfart... was thinking jni[06:28:39] <nater> imthenachoman: how'd you get past the 2 second delay it seems to want to put in there?[06:28:55] <Baloogan> ~jni[06:28:55] <javabot> Baloogan, jni is Java Native Interface and http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/jni/ and http://java.sun.com/tutorial/native1.1[06:29:40] *** rizzo_ has quit IRC[06:30:28] *** flippo has quit IRC[06:30:28] *** sm9 has quit IRC[06:30:28] *** Stigma has quit IRC[06:30:28] *** Honk^away has quit IRC[06:30:29] *** firelord has quit IRC[06:30:29] *** slava has quit IRC[06:30:29] *** some_dude has quit IRC[06:30:29] *** Dewi has quit IRC[06:30:29] *** roots- has quit IRC[06:30:29] *** Teckla has quit IRC[06:30:29] *** Peter has quit IRC[06:30:29] *** alexander has quit IRC[06:30:29] *** znoG has quit IRC[06:30:29] *** kur1j has quit IRC[06:30:29] *** cpugeniusmv has quit IRC[06:30:29] *** brown_cow has quit IRC[06:30:29] *** drewie has quit IRC[06:30:29] *** BULLE has quit IRC[06:30:29] *** ApEtc has quit IRC[06:30:29] *** Chalain has quit IRC[06:30:29] *** ohsix has quit IRC[06:30:29] *** StFS has quit IRC[06:30:43] <IMTheNachoMan> nater what are you talkin bout now?[06:30:51] *** brown_cow has joined ##java[06:30:51] *** flippo has joined ##java[06:30:51] *** some_dude has joined ##java[06:30:51] *** slava has joined ##java[06:30:51] *** sm9 has joined ##java[06:30:51] *** Stigma has joined ##java[06:30:51] *** Honk^away has joined ##java[06:30:51] *** alexander has joined ##java[06:30:51] *** firelord has joined ##java[06:30:51] *** Peter has joined ##java[06:30:51] *** Dewi has joined ##java[06:30:51] *** roots- has joined ##java[06:30:51] *** znoG has joined ##java[06:30:51] *** Teckla has joined ##java[06:30:51] *** kur1j has joined ##java[06:30:51] *** cpugeniusmv has joined ##java[06:30:51] *** StFS has joined ##java[06:30:51] *** Chalain has joined ##java[06:30:51] *** BULLE has joined ##java[06:30:51] *** ohsix has joined ##java[06:30:51] *** drewie has joined ##java[06:30:52] *** ApEtc has joined ##java[06:31:34] <IMTheNachoMan> ~interface[06:31:34] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, interface is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/interpack/createinterface.html[06:31:37] <IMTheNachoMan> ~abstract[06:31:37] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, abstract is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/javaOO/abstract.html[06:31:59] *** vinse has joined ##java[06:32:08] <nater> imthenachoman: rtp has a buffer that creates ~2 sec delay, right?[06:32:41] <IMTheNachoMan> nater this must be new, not that i noticed, but then i did this a lil more then a year ago[06:32:54] <IMTheNachoMan> just a project for school, dont remember most of it[06:33:05] <IMTheNachoMan> nater we had a different problem[06:33:27] <IMTheNachoMan> ok am i to get this right, the only difference between and abstract and interface is in an interface you can not impliment any actual code[06:33:42] <IMTheNachoMan> can an interface impliment an interface public interface blah impliments asdf{}[06:33:43] <Garibaldi> they are conceptually different though[06:33:54] <IMTheNachoMan> or extend an abstract class?[06:34:03] <Garibaldi> an interface defines the.. well... interface contract[06:34:19] <Garibaldi> an abstract class is a class that has (usually) some behavior associated with it[06:34:21] <IMTheNachoMan> however, an interface should still return true for instanceof right?[06:34:26] <Garibaldi> it's more than an interface contract[06:34:27] <IMTheNachoMan> Garibaldi ok, thx[06:35:45] *** Uviz has quit IRC[06:35:56] *** bpalmer has joined ##java[06:36:05] <slava> IMTheNachoMan: don't use RMI for a chat server[06:36:09] <slava> IMTheNachoMan: use a simple text protocol[06:36:12] <Garibaldi> and abstract classes can have state too[06:36:23] * pr3d4t0r flex0rs[06:36:30] <Garibaldi> interfaces cannot[06:36:33] <pr3d4t0r> Phear my google skills![06:36:44] <Garibaldi> (aside from static constants)[06:37:25] <Baloogan> Anyone know GMI?[06:37:28] <IMTheNachoMan> slava ok thx[06:37:35] <bpalmer> I think a chat program was what we used to learn RMI , back in the day[06:37:40] <bpalmer> it's not a horrible way to do things[06:37:56] <IMTheNachoMan> but it wouldnt make sense[06:38:00] *** tag has joined ##java[06:38:00] <IMTheNachoMan> chat is i say you listen[06:38:04] <IMTheNachoMan> and you say i listen[06:38:20] <IMTheNachoMan> not i say and i open YOUR ears so you can listen[06:38:42] <IMTheNachoMan> and you i dont open your mouth to make you talk, and thats all i could see RMI doing[06:38:45] <slava> open your ears, open your mind: condoms prevent AIDS[06:38:45] <bpalmer> IMTheNachoMan: what if you want to send richer-than-text messages?[06:38:57] <slava> use html or xml markup[06:38:58] *** stork has quit IRC[06:38:59] <slava> not rmi[06:38:59] <IMTheNachoMan> bpalmer huh?[06:39:08] <IMTheNachoMan> bpalmer what is stopping you w/o using RMI?[06:39:08] <bpalmer> IMTheNachoMan: sending audio clips, for example[06:39:15] <IMTheNachoMan> bpalmer so send an object[06:39:21] <slava> don't listen to bpalmer, RMI is dumb[06:39:22] <bpalmer> IMTheNachoMan: nothing. But it starts complicating your text-based protocol[06:39:27] *** Stork has joined ##java[06:39:27] <IMTheNachoMan> bpalmer through the socket[06:39:30] <bpalmer> IMTheNachoMan: yes, sending objects is easy with RMI[06:39:39] <slava> *when* and *if* this becomes an issue, he can use a more complicated protocol[06:39:41] <IMTheNachoMan> also with just plain ol sockets[06:39:45] *** Mott has joined ##java[06:39:46] <slava> and sending audio with RMI is not very smart either[06:39:53] <IMTheNachoMan> well i mean i am sending rich text[06:39:54] <slava> why would you use RMI? just send the compressed audio stream[06:40:03] <IMTheNachoMan> if i can figure out how to get the content from a jeditorpane[06:40:06] *** Chang_Wufei is now known as Wufei|sleep[06:40:23] <IMTheNachoMan> rmi would be more if i want the server to call a method in the client (or am i right)[06:40:27] <bpalmer> *shrug* RMI is not a horrible way to easily sketch out a chat client, is all[06:40:49] <bpalmer> it's quick, it's easily extensible, so on[06:40:55] <IMTheNachoMan> the jtable issue and jeditorpane once i get those two, im good to go[06:41:10] <tag> bpalmer: Help me with rhino and axis[06:41:13] <slava> RMI just ties you in with java[06:41:18] *** prolificgnosis has quit IRC[06:41:23] <slava> what if you want a chat client that's written in c#?[06:41:36] <bpalmer> slava: you should be using irc then, and an existing chat client[06:41:52] <bpalmer> or jabber, and an existing chat client[06:41:56] <bpalmer> or aim, and an existing chat client[06:42:01] <bpalmer> or ...[06:42:06] *** cybereal has joined ##java[06:42:17] <IMTheNachoMan> bpalmer he isnt the one doing it, i am[06:42:24] *** JViz has quit IRC[06:42:24] <bpalmer> tag: get a big gun if you're hunting rhino[06:42:50] <IMTheNachoMan> how is text stored in a jeditorpane? as html or something else?[06:43:04] <bpalmer> IMTheNachoMan: as StyledText[06:43:25] <IMTheNachoMan> bpalmer ah thx[06:43:32] <IMTheNachoMan> now to see if i can understand that[06:43:43] *** Corical has quit IRC[06:43:54] <IMTheNachoMan> cuase i need to be able to travers the text and figure out what eeach char/string/line is styled as[06:44:45] <slava> writing a network protocol is simpler than RMI[06:44:45] <slava> i tried RMI once in 2000, gave up because it was broken and horrible to use[06:44:45] <slava> wtf is up with these Remote interfaces?[06:44:59] <IMTheNachoMan> are we allowed to cuss in here?[06:45:05] <IMTheNachoMan> just curioua[06:45:08] <IMTheNachoMan> curious[06:45:15] *** BULLE has quit IRC[06:45:15] *** znoG has quit IRC[06:45:16] *** firelord has quit IRC[06:45:16] *** Honk^away has quit IRC[06:45:16] *** Stigma has quit IRC[06:45:16] *** sm9 has quit IRC[06:45:16] *** slava has quit IRC[06:45:16] *** brown_cow has quit IRC[06:45:16] *** Teckla has quit IRC[06:45:16] *** Chalain has quit IRC[06:45:16] *** kur1j has quit IRC[06:45:16] *** Dewi has quit IRC[06:45:16] *** some_dude has quit IRC[06:45:16] *** Peter has quit IRC[06:45:16] *** cpugeniusmv has quit IRC[06:45:16] *** StFS has quit IRC[06:45:16] *** flippo has quit IRC[06:45:16] *** ApEtc has quit IRC[06:45:17] *** roots- has quit IRC[06:45:17] *** alexander has quit IRC[06:45:17] *** drewie has quit IRC[06:45:17] *** ohsix has quit IRC[06:45:39] *** brown_cow has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** flippo has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** some_dude has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** slava has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** sm9 has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** Stigma has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** Honk^away has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** alexander has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** firelord has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** Peter has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** Dewi has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** roots- has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** znoG has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** Teckla has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** kur1j has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** cpugeniusmv has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** StFS has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** Chalain has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** BULLE has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** ohsix has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** drewie has joined ##java[06:45:39] *** ApEtc has joined ##java[06:45:44] <cybereal> omg I'm having dalnet flashbacks[06:45:53] <bpalmer> IMTheNachoMan: no. The nuns will slap your wrists[06:46:10] <IMTheNachoMan> oh ok, thx[06:50:32] <IMTheNachoMan> i wonder if there is quick way to get the html version of styled text in a jeditorpane[06:52:52] <IMTheNachoMan> oo i forgot, im gonna have to figure out how to figure out nick complete on tab, i wonder how id do that[06:53:17] <cybereal> half the fun is figuring it out on your own[06:53:23] <mohadib_> keep an updated list of nicks in your channel object[06:53:29] <mohadib_> cybereal: yep[06:53:38] <IMTheNachoMan> no i know, i was just talking out loud[06:53:39] <IMTheNachoMan> heh[06:53:58] <cybereal> It's Internet Relay Chat, not Internet Relay Think[06:54:06] <mohadib_> ?[06:54:09] *** fat0s has joined ##java[06:54:10] <mohadib_> heh[06:54:20] <vinse> IRT?[06:54:23] *** fat0s has left ##java[06:54:26] <IMTheNachoMan> it aught not be hard, i have a list of users online, event listener listining for tab etc...[06:54:28] *** Stigma has quit IRC[06:54:36] <vinse> s/aught/ought ?[06:54:42] <IMTheNachoMan> are you sure, on the top of my window it says mIRT[06:54:50] <IMTheNachoMan> is that how its spelled?[06:55:00] <IMTheNachoMan> vinse your big on grammer and spelling arent you?[06:55:06] <vinse> s/your/you're[06:55:10] <mohadib_> hahaha[06:55:14] <mohadib_> javabot: vinse++[06:55:15] <javabot> vinse has a karma level of 25, mohadib_[06:55:15] <IMTheNachoMan> im sorry[06:55:20] <vinse> hehe jk[06:55:22] <vinse> i'm not really[06:55:37] <vinse> i was asking that time, cuz i'm not sure about aught[06:55:39] <IMTheNachoMan> vinse spent last 8 years having teachers correct me, i just didnt learn[06:55:44] <vinse> and the other time it was because it was a factoid[06:55:46] <IMTheNachoMan> im not big on grammer or spelling[06:55:50] <vinse> so i thought that shoudl be right[06:55:55] <IMTheNachoMan> vinse ahh didnt want to make a bad impression[06:55:57] *** Mot has quit IRC[06:56:04] *** aliveuser has left ##java[06:56:04] <vinse> i really dont care[06:56:14] <vinse> i'm the one that always argues against the aolbonics ban[06:56:22] <vinse> i'm less of a pedant than lots of others here[06:56:25] *** Mot has joined ##java[06:56:26] *** xtuz has joined ##java[06:56:33] <cybereal> boo to aolbonics![06:56:36] <IMTheNachoMan> vinse lets start a petition, il sign it[06:56:40] <mohadib_> aolbonic is annoyoing[06:56:47] <IMTheNachoMan> can i ask why?[06:56:57] <mohadib_> why they are annoying?[06:57:07] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r not tryin to get kicked, just talkin to the other guys here and seeing what they think[06:57:07] <IMTheNachoMan> yeah[06:57:19] <vinse> IMTheNachoMan: it's elitism[06:57:23] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib_ how/why is it annoying? is it really that much harder for you to read 'u' rather then 'you'[06:57:24] <mohadib_> cause thats the way 14yr old kids talk in aol chat rooms[06:57:25] <cybereal> IMTheNachoMan: Using them makes you look like an idiot[06:57:33] <bpalmer> guys? We're all xx here...[06:57:41] <vinse> IMTheNachoMan: see, it's purely a value judgement[06:57:53] <vinse> like anyone who says that a certain accent makes people sound stupid[06:57:55] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib_ i never used aol[06:58:07] <mohadib_> IMTheNachoMan: i did for a few months[06:58:09] <vinse> it's just trying to enforce artificial distinctions[06:58:10] <mohadib_> ;)[06:58:16] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib_ what about saving time?[06:58:21] <vinse> by declaring an arbitrary standard[06:58:24] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib_ like when one types lol, or brb[06:58:34] <IMTheNachoMan> less key presses = more productivity[06:58:34] <vinse> aolbonics r g8 m8[06:58:38] <mohadib_> vinse: plus ... people who have a poor grasp on english (esl) hang here[06:58:43] <vinse> IMTheNachoMan: exactly[06:58:48] <mohadib_> they get lost with aolbonics[06:58:53] <vinse> that's bs[06:59:00] <vinse> aolbonics is more international than english[06:59:01] *** ijoyce has joined ##java[06:59:01] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib_ ahh and you think it might make it harder for them[06:59:11] <mohadib_> plus .... its also script kiddie talk[06:59:18] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib_ i am going to have to go with vinse on that one, it is true[06:59:18] <vinse> see: value judgments![06:59:22] <cybereal> I repeat, it makes you look like an idiot[06:59:22] <mohadib_> vinse: hehe[06:59:23] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib_ so your judging basically?[06:59:29] <IMTheNachoMan> ahh ok[06:59:30] <IMTheNachoMan> i see[06:59:33] <vinse> cybereal: thank you for provign my point[06:59:33] <mohadib_> no , it annoys me[06:59:38] <mohadib_> i dont care what you guys do[06:59:41] <mohadib_> its not my rule[07:00:02] <IMTheNachoMan> i have one think to say to that, i dont care if it annoys one person, but if it annoys an op pr3d4t0r for example then il stop[07:00:10] <IMTheNachoMan> i would rather not get kicked[07:00:12] <vinse> cybereal: and yet you must know that using aolbonics is just a choice? and that it has no actual bearing on intelligence?[07:00:19] <cybereal> vinse: I disagree[07:00:20] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib_ although i think its hipocrytical (however thats spelled)[07:00:23] <vinse> and yet you hang on to that prejudice[07:00:29] <cybereal> It's not a prejudice, it's experience[07:00:29] <mohadib_> ~irc y0ur3 teh 1337 vinse[07:00:30] <javabot> rofl y0ur3 teh 1337 vinse rofl!!!111!!!!111oneone[07:00:31] <vinse> you think there's an actual correlation?[07:00:39] <cybereal> In all of my experience yes[07:00:39] <vinse> i'd be suprised[07:00:48] <vinse> it says a lot more about age than intelligence[07:01:01] <cybereal> Age and intelligence have a habit of correllation as well ;)[07:01:07] <vinse> ./shrug[07:01:10] <cybereal> All rules have exceptions[07:01:12] <IMTheNachoMan> as for the unintelligent people dont talk like that, il have to disagree with that too[07:01:21] <vinse> that's wisdom, not intelligence, they're not the same ... didnt you play AD&D?[07:01:22] <IMTheNachoMan> il accept it for one reason[07:01:24] <IMTheNachoMan> its a rule[07:01:30] <IMTheNachoMan> i dont agree with it, but il follow it[07:01:35] <vinse> IMTheNachoMan: that's why i follow it[07:01:35] <IMTheNachoMan> EOD[07:01:48] <cybereal> Just learn to type and it won't matter[07:01:52] <mohadib_> heh[07:01:58] <vinse> free your mind and it wont matter[07:02:00] <IMTheNachoMan> cybereal what about when you use acronyms or other short cuts?[07:02:03] <vinse> you're in chains man![07:02:13] <IMTheNachoMan> cybereal is that not hipocrytical (however thats spelled)[07:02:17] <vinse> you're doing THE MANS work and you dont even know it[07:02:19] *** Mott has quit IRC[07:02:24] <vinse> STAND UP TO THE MAN[07:02:27] <IMTheNachoMan> just curious, while were on the subject[07:02:30] <cybereal> IMTheNachoMan: Acronyms are not aolbonics[07:02:34] <IMTheNachoMan> not tryin to argue or nothing[07:02:37] <Baloogan> IS this correct for that folder?[07:02:38] <Baloogan> -Djava.rmi.server.codebase="file:///c:\Documents and Settings\Baloogan\RMI\Server\build\classes/"[07:02:43] <vinse> cybereal: you mean like "lol" ?[07:02:43] <cybereal> IMTheNachoMan: Acronyms are established meaningful things, aolbonics is stuff like "u" and "r"[07:02:48] <IMTheNachoMan> cybereal aolbionics is shortcuts, acronyms are short cuts[07:02:49] <cybereal> yeah, I hate lol but it's not an aolbonic[07:02:53] * mohadib_ gives vinse some warm tea and a sedative[07:02:54] <IMTheNachoMan> cybereal aolbionics started cuase of shortcuts[07:02:59] <IMTheNachoMan> cybereal why isnt it?[07:03:03] <Baloogan> Anyone?[07:03:06] *** Mott has joined ##java[07:03:07] <vinse> ell oh ell @ u m8[07:03:08] <IMTheNachoMan> cybereal lol started with aol[07:03:14] <Baloogan> Lets talk java and not aconims please :/[07:03:17] <cybereal> IMTheNachoMan: lol existed long before AOL[07:03:31] <mohadib_> ~irc shut it Baloogan[07:03:31] <javabot> mouarf shut it Baloogan jaja[07:03:32] <IMTheNachoMan> cybereal then so much have 'u' for 'you' etc...[07:03:36] <mohadib_> ;)[07:03:45] <Baloogan> mohadib_: Please, :/[07:03:47] <cybereal> IMTheNachoMan: because there is no valid reason to shorten you to u, it's two less letters[07:03:48] <mohadib_> heh[07:03:49] <Baloogan> -Djava.rmi.server.codebase="file:///c:\Documents and Settings\Baloogan\RMI\Server\build\classes/"[07:03:50] <IMTheNachoMan> Baloogan im sorry, il try to stop, but its something im interested in[07:03:51] <Baloogan> Is that right?[07:03:59] <IMTheNachoMan> cybereal two letters add up[07:04:39] <cybereal> Not to anything meaningful[07:04:47] <cybereal> You trade your two letters for your appearance of intelligence[07:04:55] <cybereal> When text is the only thing you have to give a first impression[07:05:04] <IMTheNachoMan> i always thought freenode was a channel with nobody putting there views on others, i feel that the whole aol rule is forcing someone elses views on mine but what can i say[07:05:14] <mohadib_> of things to bitch about... aolbonics rank very high[07:05:14] <Baloogan> Goddamn :([07:05:20] <IMTheNachoMan> cybereal ahh so it all comes to how you judge the person[07:05:22] <IMTheNachoMan> ok im sorry[07:05:23] <IMTheNachoMan> il stop[07:05:27] <mohadib_> desnt![07:05:31] <mohadib_> doesnt rank![07:05:34] <mohadib_> heh[07:05:37] <cybereal> IMTheNachoMan: It's how you can filter the people who are not capable of cogent conversation[07:05:39] * IMTheNachoMan bites is tounge hard[07:05:45] <cybereal> IMTheNachoMan: I'm not going to waste my time talking to people who can't understand me[07:06:07] <IMTheNachoMan> cybereal just cause i use 'u' instead of 'you' doesnt mean i cant have cogent conversation, and if someone thinks it does then id rather not associate with them[07:06:13] <Baloogan> Please? Could someone help me?[07:06:23] <cybereal> IMTheNachoMan: Please, by all means, do not associate with me.[07:06:26] <Baloogan> How do I make -Djava.rmi.server.codebase="file:///c:\Documents and Settings\Baloogan\RMI\Server\build\classes/" CORRECT![07:06:33] <IMTheNachoMan> cybereal no i didnt mean it like that[07:06:50] <IMTheNachoMan> cybereal in all honesty, this is a real stupid argument, im just arguing for the sake of it[07:06:51] <cybereal> I'm not afraid to judge people by the choices they make[07:07:08] <IMTheNachoMan> then lets agree to disagree?[07:07:11] <vinse> i'm not afraid to say that 4 + 4 = 9[07:07:15] <vinse> it doesnt make it right[07:07:15] <IMTheNachoMan> Baloogan sorry i cant help you[07:07:19] <Baloogan> Anyone else?[07:07:21] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Dude, I like you.[07:07:24] <cybereal> IMTheNachoMan: Fine, it's not as if you're doing it anyway[07:07:24] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: I really do.[07:07:35] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: But stop arguing about fucking aolbonics once and for all.[07:07:39] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r heh, thanks i am[07:07:49] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Thank you.[07:07:56] <vinse> pr3d4t0r: sorry i started it[07:07:57] <vinse> (again)[07:08:20] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r i do have to say thanks though, i really have wanted to get out of the habbit, i may not like it but its frowned upon in the professional world, heh[07:08:48] <vinse> evolutionary change of language is inevitable though, you guys are going to have to face it one day ... you'll never have to like it i admit[07:09:01] <IMTheNachoMan> ok so why isnt this working, i burned the java folder on my c drive to a cd so i could try to compile progs[07:09:03] <IMTheNachoMan> and it wont work[07:09:08] <vinse> but u and "ne1" and all that are all going to become widely accepted[07:09:25] * IMTheNachoMan is biting his tounge hard[07:09:41] * vinse also bites his tounge[07:09:59] * vinse means his own tounge, not IMTheNachoMan's cuz that would be really creepy[07:10:01] *** some_dude has quit IRC[07:10:01] * cybereal wonders if the reason these guys like aolbonics is because they type with their tongues[07:10:22] <IMTheNachoMan> cybereal haha[07:11:57] *** The_Vulture has joined ##java[07:12:42] <IMTheNachoMan> The_Vulture howdy doodie[07:13:11] <IMTheNachoMan> i have got it, who wants to help me write a irc client that uses AI to 'sort' conversations[07:14:26] <IMTheNachoMan> i will write the actual chat part, someone else writes the AI part, and we split it 50/50, we will make millions, whos with me[07:15:21] *** Mot has quit IRC[07:15:22] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r i was looking forward to seeing something cool in your aim profile, but no luck, i think you should spice it up, its supposed to be a portal to your soul[07:15:51] * IMTheNachoMan is surprised, he actually typed your instead of ur, and didnt even have to think about it[07:16:04] <IMTheNachoMan> im out guys[07:16:05] <IMTheNachoMan> later[07:18:08] *** GedasRx has joined ##java[07:18:17] <slava> hi The_Vulture[07:20:32] <The_Vulture> hey slava - how's things?[07:21:43] <Cow_woC> ok ..... I've asked this before but I'll ask it again[07:21:49] <Cow_woC> why the heck does Calendar use zero-based months?[07:21:57] <tag> http://www.blisted.org/tr/browser/projects/RhinoProvider/org/apache/axis/providers/RhinoProvider.java ...anyone know wtf I'm doing wrong here?[07:22:10] <slava> Calendar is probably one of the worst APIs ever designed[07:22:14] *** |Agent has joined ##java[07:22:21] <Cow_woC> yes yes, but why does it do it? what is the reasoning?[07:22:25] <slava> The_Vulture: been doing a lot of OpenGL lately[07:22:31] <slava> Cow_woC: it was written by IBM programmers[07:22:34] <Cow_woC> slava: joda-time looks quite nice in that respect[07:22:36] <slava> Cow_woC: there's no reasoning involved[07:22:58] <slava> the same people gave us OS/390 and the AIX management consoe[07:23:15] <Cow_woC> would be nice if joda-time replaced Calendar in Java.... the downside being that Joda-time is big :( but it's very nice[07:23:24] <Cow_woC> so with pack200 I think it's worth it[07:23:59] *** sanj has joined ##java[07:24:07] <|Agent> I notice that debuggers show something like @x43 for each object. Is there a way for me to get that value, so I can id objects with a toString() printout?[07:24:11] <Cow_woC> slava: personally I always find myself making a mistake with zero-based months..... and wasting time tracking down these bugs. It looks like an extremely stupid decision to me[07:25:20] *** L-----D has joined ##java[07:25:58] <The_Vulture> slava: ah - neat-o. Anything in particular?[07:26:16] <slava> The_Vulture: some paying work, and a gui toolkit in my spare time[07:26:21] <The_Vulture> I don't really think Calendar ranks very highly among poorly designed APIs, personally. *shrugs*[07:26:30] <Cow_woC> hilarious read: http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?forumID=31&threadID=647645[07:26:35] <Cow_woC> \-> about month being 0-based[07:27:08] <The_Vulture> bleh.. why is the 'nutter casting then assigning to a wider type anyway?[07:27:10] <The_Vulture> bleh.[07:28:06] <L-----D> :(, I think i lost my nick[07:28:53] <Cow_woC> hahahaha[07:28:54] <Cow_woC> http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=4609228[07:29:04] <Cow_woC> \-> Iranian people bitching to Sun[07:29:15] <Cow_woC> "We want Iranian calendar support!"[07:29:24] <Cow_woC> man ... screw you guys ... nuke the whales[07:29:49] <Cow_woC> why we'd want to give technology to these people is beyond me[07:30:23] <Cow_woC> (holy crap, the Japanese are even worse with comments in that issue!)[07:30:46] <slava> the 21-bit unicode shenannigans in 1.5 are terrible[07:30:57] <slava> toUpperCase is now like 10 pages of code[07:31:05] <slava> just so some fool can write klingon in netbeans[07:31:24] <Cow_woC> heh[07:31:27] <Cow_woC> so true[07:31:56] <tag> ARGH[07:32:03] <Cow_woC> they should just use compression on useless languages and pack it into 16-bit ... uh :)[07:32:05] <Cow_woC> or something[07:32:11] * Cow_woC snickers[07:32:25] <slava> lets just take over the asians[07:32:30] <slava> they're overdue for a regime change[07:32:31] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: you don't seem to understand the concept of compression..[07:33:03] <Cow_woC> The_Vulture: I was joking[07:33:09] <Cow_woC> slava: heh[07:33:21] <slava> and bomb those auzzies too[07:33:23] * slava looks at The_Vulture[07:33:23] <bpalmer> war with eurasia?[07:33:33] * The_Vulture throws an empty stubby at slava[07:33:49] * slava coats The_Vulture with maple syrup[07:34:23] <The_Vulture> mm, syrupy goodness. Now if it were Sprite syrup I'd be set.[07:35:12] * Cow_woC still can't wrap his mind over Iran though[07:35:47] <Cow_woC> How could anyone seriously believe they are developing a nuclear program for peaceful means (they say for generating electricity) when they have a *shitload* of oil? They don't need freakin' nuclear energy![07:36:41] <Cow_woC> and coincidently, they spent years extending their ballistic missile range, and regularly announce they'd like to wipe certain countries off the face of the earth. Put it all together and ... frankly, you'd have to be insane to think they're peaceful ;)[07:38:39] <slava> just make a java version for iran and it will overwhelm their computers and slow them to a crawl[07:39:09] <Cow_woC> they have computers?[07:39:10] <Cow_woC> :)[07:40:41] <slava> 386's and such[07:40:50] *** [bono] has joined ##java[07:40:59] *** Amnesiac has quit IRC[07:44:59] * pr3d4t0r eyes Cow_woC[07:45:02] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: /join #politics[07:45:34] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: well, I figured #java was asleep[07:45:42] <Cow_woC> injecting some life into it never hurt[07:45:43] <Cow_woC> :)[07:45:51] <Cow_woC> but anyway, I better head off to bed :)[07:45:52] <Cow_woC> good night all[07:50:34] *** xfrye has joined ##java[07:51:09] *** L-----D has quit IRC[07:52:00] *** watzlaf has joined ##java[07:56:25] <pr3d4t0r> Damn, he left before I kicked him.[07:56:56] *** |^JaMeS^| has left ##java[08:00:01] *** sm9 has quit IRC[08:01:18] *** terence_ has joined ##java[08:01:21] <terence_> hi[08:01:31] <terence_> howto print float values?[08:01:52] <terence_> summaryFile.println("Avg. number of UniCasts per Event:\t"+(ttlUniCasts/processedEvents)); > only prints ints[08:02:00] <pr3d4t0r> terence_: float f = 42.0; System.out.printf("%f\n", f);[08:04:41] *** |Agent has quit IRC[08:05:40] *** stefan has quit IRC[08:06:31] <terence_> summaryFile.printf("%f\n",ttlUniCasts/processedEvents); ?[08:06:59] <terence_> >Exception in thread "main" java.util.IllegalFormatConversionException: f != java.lang.Integer[08:07:17] <terence_> do ihave to set it to float var before?[08:08:26] <d03boy> when i want to Deprecate a method, how do I officially do it so that it wont function.. does it need to throw an exception[08:08:26] <d03boy> ?[08:09:13] <slava> @deprecated[08:09:20] <terence_> float fl = 22/99; = 0.0 ?[08:09:23] <terence_> hae?[08:09:27] <slava> 22.0/99.0[08:09:31] <d03boy> slava, ok... i figured there would be something else. thanks[08:10:01] <terence_> ow[08:10:08] *** dukttape has joined ##java[08:10:37] <terence_> uhm, why do i have to use floats values .. to get a float resul ..that sux[08:10:51] <d03boy> because you cant change the precision of an int[08:11:14] <d03boy> you can always round float values, but you cant round an int to a more precise value[08:11:15] <terence_> i declared my results as float, so i don't chnage it[08:11:32] <slava> because java's numerics suck -- there's no support for rational numbers[08:11:34] <terence_> in c++ and delphi it is possible as far as i now ..[08:11:42] <terence_> yes, it sucks[08:11:47] <slava> c++ and delphi don't have rationals either[08:12:11] <d03boy> slava, in java can you put an "f" behind a number to cast it as a float like you can in C?[08:12:12] *** Stork has quit IRC[08:12:17] <slava> yes[08:12:47] <d03boy> cool[08:12:49] *** Stork has joined ##java[08:14:32] <terence_> how does this work?[08:14:50] <slava> what java lacks is a precise way to represent 1/3, etc[08:15:12] <terence_> i need 3 points behind the comma[08:15:32] * cybereal thanks slava again for his handy rationals code that lead cybereal to writing his own very simplified version[08:15:39] <slava> heh[08:15:47] <terence_> howto cast int to float?[08:15:56] <slava> my code was unworkable in java, too much dynamic typing[08:16:08] <d03boy> terence_, You have to box it in Float I believe[08:16:17] <slava> (float)3[08:16:21] <cybereal> Yeah I threw out all the Numbers compatibility in favor of BigInteger based rationals since I didn't need any of those features[08:16:22] <d03boy> unless that was for the specific case I was using it in..[08:16:25] <cybereal> "features" I should say[08:17:31] <terence_> slava: Float(int) or float(int) does either not compile[08:17:38] <slava> terence_: (float)int[08:17:45] <terence_> but i try yours now[08:17:58] <slava> cybereal: factor has similar dynamically typed arithmetic but my runtime uses jump tables and unboxed integers behind the scenes to make it a bit faster[08:19:25] <terence_> slava: works know . but still only 0 is printed in summaryFile.printf("%f\n",fl);[08:19:30] <terence_> ^now[08:19:36] <cybereal> one of these days when I'm bored I'm going to add a .simplify() method to that SimpleRatio class of mine[08:19:56] <terence_> missing precision?[08:20:10] <slava> cybereal: to remove a common numerator/denominator?[08:20:41] <cybereal> slava: yeah, well to get a usefully readable fraction after doing tons of iterations like I was doing... the numbers were upwards of 80 digits each[08:20:52] <slava> cybereal: my code already did that[08:21:03] <slava> cybereal: compute the gcd, if its not 1, divide numerator and denominator by it[08:21:06] <d03boy> has anyone written a class to solve laplace transforms? :P[08:21:51] <terence_> slava: fl=0.232 but printf only prints 0 ?[08:22:12] <cybereal> terence_: why are you using printf for that?[08:22:24] <terence_> because slava said that[08:22:30] *** Stork has quit IRC[08:22:32] <slava> me?[08:22:34] <cybereal> terence_: you'd get the same result from .println(yourFloatHere);[08:22:49] *** Stork has joined ##java[08:22:49] <slava> i never mentioned printf my friend[08:22:51] <terence_> i will try[08:22:53] *** stefan has joined ##java[08:23:12] <terence_> slava: sty it was pr3d4t0r[08:24:27] <terence_> summaryFile.println(fl); also 0[08:24:42] <cybereal> ~tell terence_ about testcase[08:24:45] <javabot> terence_, testcase is a minimal independently runnable program, which demonstrates the problem; see http://www.physci.org/codes/sscce.jsp for details and a HOWTO[08:24:52] <cybereal> ~tell terence_ about pastebin[08:24:53] <javabot> terence_, Paste your code, preferably a test case, any errors, and any other relevant information into the pastebin and tell us the URL: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin[08:25:50] *** [bono] has quit IRC[08:25:51] <terence_> are you kidding . thta are two lines of code which are reached (i set a breakpoint ) > float fl = (float)ttlUniCasts/(float)processedEvents;[08:25:51] <terence_> summaryFile.println(fl);[08:26:21] <d03boy> but we dont know what ttlUniCasts or processedEvents are[08:26:24] <pr3d4t0r> d03boy: Dude, don't be lazy and go do your differential equations homework.[08:26:43] <d03boy> pr3d4t0r, haha. I was just joking man[08:26:53] <slava> maple does laplace transforms[08:27:00] <terence_> System.out.println(fl); does show it up correctly[08:27:20] <terence_> but the println of PrintWriter not! .. or it has stgh to do with the charset?[08:29:03] <terence_> any idea?[08:29:57] <bgilb> try[08:30:01] <bgilb> System.out.println(fl +"");[08:30:16] <terence_> hahe?[08:30:46] *** Danielle has joined ##java[08:31:03] <terence_> why shall i do thta .. i said that System.put.println(float) already work .. but printWriter.pintln(float) not . that is the problem..[08:31:20] <terence_> i want to write it to a file not to consiole[08:31:54] *** dukttape has quit IRC[08:32:34] <IMTheNachoMan> is there someone i need to tell if i get a spam message on freenode?[08:33:21] <d03boy> terence_, you might try using a DataOutputStream instead of a PrintWriter[08:33:47] <terence_> arg..[08:33:56] <d03boy> or use the dataoutputstream as the input for the printwriter[08:34:08] <d03boy> i'm not sure if that will work[08:34:14] <d03boy> but I remember doing something similar a while back[08:35:13] <d03boy> or you could just use the print() instead of printf[08:37:56] <terence_> this fucking outpustream has now println .. i had problems with \n in former times[08:39:00] <terence_> println(float) as print(float) does not work either[08:39:09] <terence_> the f.. PrintWriter can write floats[08:39:14] <terence_> can't[08:39:27] <terence_> arzgg this is outpustream hell[08:39:50] <d03boy> what exactly are you trying to do?[08:40:13] <terence_> only print stats about an algo .. which keeps text,ints and float values[08:40:25] <terence_> to afile[08:40:39] *** Stork has quit IRC[08:40:52] * d03boy reads that twice[08:41:07] *** Stork has joined ##java[08:42:48] <terence_> this dataoutpustream can't write strings print(String)[08:43:16] <terence_> i do not really want to use 1000 objects to write tis file[08:43:27] <d03boy> well are you writing a string or a float?[08:43:37] <d03boy> make up your mind[08:43:40] <terence_> both[08:43:57] <terence_> man, you won't tell me thta i can't use int,str and float in one text file[08:44:07] <terence_> back to the middle ages[08:44:09] <d03boy> you can, but you probably have to turnit into a string beforehand[08:44:27] <terence_> well, how to get that dam float to string?[08:44:28] <d03boy> if you are going to actually store it as an int,float,double or whatever, it is considered to be "binary data" I think[08:44:40] <d03boy> box it as a Float and then use Float.toString()[08:47:16] <terence_> ahh me dumbass[08:47:54] <terence_> i forgot delete the file .. the data was appended and i always only seeked the first data record in the file ..[08:48:09] <terence_> ahhhh!* its quite to early here[08:48:20] <d03boy> ...idiot... :D[08:48:26] <terence_> lol really![08:49:13] <terence_> know i have the choice, thanls for finding 1001 ways to write a float to afile lolol[08:49:18] <terence_> ^now[08:49:19] <d03boy> haha[08:50:51] *** Honk^away has quit IRC[08:51:35] *** xfrye has quit IRC[08:51:49] <IMTheNachoMan> hi[08:51:53] *** vinse has left ##java[08:51:59] <terence_> summaryFile.println("Avg. number of UniCasts per Event:\t"+((float)ttlUniCasts/(float)processedEvents)); works!![08:52:08] <terence_> in one line![08:52:09] <IMTheNachoMan> slava ping[08:52:35] <IMTheNachoMan> !seen slava[08:52:40] <Drone> slava is currently online in ##java and last spoke on Thu 27 Oct 2005 06:25 GMT, saying 'maple does laplace transforms'.[08:53:02] <IMTheNachoMan> !time[08:53:05] <IMTheNachoMan> ~time[08:53:06] <javabot> Thu Oct 27 00:53:06 MDT 2005[08:53:12] *** Honk^away has joined ##java[08:53:19] <IMTheNachoMan> grrr, it gives gmt for some stuff and MDT for others[08:53:37] *** tommi^ has joined ##java[08:55:41] * pr3d4t0r smacks IMTheNachoMan for not paying attention.[08:57:54] <d03boy> night[09:01:27] *** tag has quit IRC[09:03:00] *** KingNato has joined ##java[09:07:45] *** rvalles has quit IRC[09:14:08] <Baloogan> fudge[09:14:08] <Baloogan> ![09:14:15] <Baloogan> I got[09:14:16] <Baloogan> java.lang.ClassCastException: server.$Proxy0[09:14:26] <Baloogan> Object o = r.lookup("server");[09:14:26] <Baloogan> ServerInterface f = (ServerInterface) o;[09:14:29] <Baloogan> on ^^[09:14:38] <Baloogan> Its supposed to work1[09:14:40] <Baloogan> :([09:14:45] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: Please use the pastebin.[09:16:11] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: System.out.printf("\"o\" is an instance of %s%n", o.getClass().getName());[09:16:20] <Baloogan> Ok.[09:16:29] <Baloogan> But it will just return object right?[09:16:31] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: Comment out the ServerInterface f; line and see what "o" is.[09:16:36] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: I don't know.[09:16:40] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: That's why you do this.[09:16:49] <Baloogan> Ok.[09:16:57] <Baloogan> "o" is an instance of server.$Proxy0[09:17:18] <Baloogan> Hm. I think thats what its suppsed to be with RMI.[09:17:25] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: OKi.[09:17:27] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: Next:[09:17:29] <Baloogan> But I need to turn it into the ServerInterface[09:17:35] <Baloogan> to call stuff on it[09:17:48] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: Look at the Class class.[09:17:57] *** denshi has joined ##java[09:17:59] <Baloogan> What?[09:18:05] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: There's a method for listing the interfaces that a given class implements.[09:18:12] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: Look at the Class class.[09:18:43] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: Use that method for listing your interfaces; your cast exception occurs because whatever "o" is, it doesn't implement the interface ServerInterface .[09:18:44] <denshi> any old hands at javax.xml.transform about tonight?[09:19:01] <Baloogan> pr3d4t0r: I don't understand, can you give me a line?[09:19:25] <Baloogan> System.out.println(o.getClass().getInterfaces()); ?[09:19:27] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell Baloogan about java.lang.Class[09:19:32] <javabot> Baloogan, I have no idea what java.lang.Class is.[09:19:38] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell Baloogan about javadoc java.lang.Class[09:19:39] <javabot> Baloogan, please see java.lang.Class: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Class.html[09:20:41] <Baloogan> System.out.println(Arrays.toString(o.getClass().getInterfaces()));[09:20:43] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: for (Class anInterface : o.getClass().getInterfaces()) System.out.println(anInterface.getClass().getName());[09:20:53] <Baloogan> "o" is an instance of server.$Proxy0[09:20:53] <Baloogan> [interface java.rmi.Remote, interface server.ServerInterface][09:21:02] <Baloogan> What?[09:21:09] <Baloogan> server.ServerInterface !?!?1[09:21:13] <Baloogan> server!?[09:21:15] * pr3d4t0r smacks Baloogan[09:21:16] <Baloogan> guar![09:21:21] <Baloogan> let me try something[09:21:25] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: Are you using inner classes for this?[09:21:31] * pr3d4t0r smacks Baloogan again[09:21:43] <Baloogan> pr3d4t0r: Yes.[09:21:44] <Baloogan> :/[09:21:44] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: Inner classes are usually a bad idea.[09:22:02] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: Please just define that as a package, non-public interface and you'll be fine.[09:22:19] <Baloogan> HOLY SHIT[09:22:24] <Baloogan> IT IS FUCKING WORKING[09:22:27] <Baloogan> HOLY FUCKING SHIT[09:22:28] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: Declare your variable as server.ServerInterface f; -- that might work.[09:22:30] <Baloogan> FUCK![09:22:36] <Baloogan> TOOK ME 4 FUCKING DAYS[09:22:44] <Baloogan> TO GET THING SIMPLE PIECE OF SHIT TO WORK![09:22:47] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r[09:22:50] <Baloogan> pr3d4t0r: THANK YOU![09:22:52] *** helter has joined ##java[09:22:56] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: You're welcome.[09:23:06] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: Now, get that class out of there and clean that up a bit.[09:23:08] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r[09:23:15] *** xfrye has joined ##java[09:23:15] <Baloogan> Thanks so much![09:23:17] <Baloogan> Holy shit.[09:23:22] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: Vaya con Dios.[09:23:50] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: Somehow I think you might have code there for thedailywtf.com ;)[09:23:52] <nater> grrr... thread sync isn't working... and i'm not seeing what i did wrong.[09:24:35] *** helter has quit IRC[09:40:34] *** agnul has joined ##java[09:42:06] *** doc|work has joined ##java[09:44:22] *** jonx has joined ##java[09:46:08] *** denshi has quit IRC[09:49:33] *** ramza3 has joined ##java[09:50:09] *** pok has quit IRC[09:50:55] *** some_dude has joined ##java[09:51:13] <some_dude> I've got that program running after such a long time[09:51:25] <some_dude> but nowI've got a new problem, the client and server won't talk[09:52:23] <Baloogan> how do I make things of no package be imported?[09:54:41] <some_dude> i can ssh, and vnc to the system[09:54:46] <some_dude> and samba is working[09:55:50] <some_dude> it looks like it's hitting a lot of ports[09:56:04] <some_dude> 1113 seems to be used a lot[10:02:21] *** ramza3 has quit IRC[10:04:35] *** NSA has quit IRC[10:07:34] *** Baloogan has quit IRC[10:07:52] *** Baloogan has joined ##java[10:10:25] *** Cow_woC has quit IRC[10:11:53] <some_dude> when i run the server and client on windows, they talk, when i run either somewhere else i can't connect[10:19:29] <Baloogan> Does java have distruction methods?[10:19:30] <Baloogan> I need a distructor[10:19:41] <Baloogan> I need something to be called when my program DIES[10:19:48] <Baloogan> DIES LIKE DEAD[10:19:57] *** jonx has quit IRC[10:19:58] <Baloogan> To tell the server to say bye bye[10:22:22] <agnul> use an exit hook[10:23:27] <agnul> check the APIs for Runtime.addShutdownHook[10:24:15] *** ph8 has quit IRC[10:25:56] <Baloogan> ~ Runtime.addShutdownHook[10:25:57] <javabot> Baloogan, I have no idea what Runtime.addShutdownHook is.[10:26:01] <Baloogan> well fuck[10:26:04] <Baloogan> ~ Runtime[10:26:05] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'changing runtime classpath' might be appropriate:[10:26:07] <javabot> Baloogan, changing runtime classpath is http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jsp?forum=32&thread=300557&message=1961099[10:26:08] <Baloogan> NO[10:26:15] <Baloogan> ~ addShutdownHook[10:26:15] <javabot> Baloogan, I have no idea what addShutdownHook is.[10:26:18] <Baloogan> well fuck.[10:30:53] <Baloogan> Runtime.getRuntime().addShutdownHook(new Thread(){[10:30:53] <Baloogan> });[10:31:03] <Baloogan> What would I put in there to make it work?[10:31:45] *** jonx has joined ##java[10:32:21] <Eclipser> ~javadoc addShutdownHook[10:32:21] <javabot> I don't know of any documentation for addShutdownHook[10:32:25] <Eclipser> :<[10:32:47] *** some_dude has quit IRC[10:32:52] <Baloogan> Eclipser: Its not that.[10:33:10] <Baloogan> Its how to do that little 'make a class that extends something but not really'[10:33:16] <Baloogan> just changes a method around[10:33:18] <Baloogan> or something[10:34:34] *** dibblego has joined ##java[10:35:33] *** mikmorg has joined ##java[10:41:15] *** talios has joined ##java[10:42:16] *** some_dude has joined ##java[10:42:32] <bpalmer> Baloogan: java does have finalizer methods, but they're tricky and not exactly what you may end up wanting[10:42:50] <Baloogan> bpalmer: I already have implemented the addShutdownHook :/[10:42:52] <Baloogan> And it works.[10:42:54] <some_dude> is there any reason a java .jar file can't create a socket ?[10:43:08] <dibblego> some_dude: many[10:43:20] <dibblego> such as, the bind port is already in use[10:43:37] <some_dude> the apps runs on windows, and is supose to run on linux, but it won't connect[10:43:49] <some_dude> netstat does not show a listening socket[10:43:56] <dibblego> are you going to paraphrase your observations or communicate them completely?[10:44:13] <pr3d4t0r> doc|work: Google for Jeff Raskin's last project before he died.[10:44:20] <some_dude> how completely do you want ?[10:44:24] *** horros has joined ##java[10:44:33] <dibblego> an exception message perhaps? a source code test case?[10:44:41] <some_dude> it's not my code[10:44:44] <dibblego> proof that indeed you are binding a ServerSocket as you expect[10:45:48] <some_dude> the app runs well on windows, client and server, but when i move the client to linux, can can't connect, so i move the server to linux, same problem so i move them both, and nothing[10:46:21] <dibblego> the problem could be many things[10:46:58] <dibblego> why can I connect to google on machine X but not machine Y? well, maybe machine Y has no route to google - google's fault? of course not[10:47:16] <some_dude> ah, I've found my server socket at port 7599[10:47:27] <some_dude> well I'm vnc that system now[10:47:38] <roots-> vnc to a X server ?[10:47:41] <roots-> how awkward[10:47:57] <roots-> thats like putting a 40hp engine into a porsche[10:48:31] <some_dude> this is a test, if all goes well, I'll improve it[10:48:58] *** xtuz has quit IRC[10:49:12] <dibblego> you should probably not expose your VNC port to the internet - go over a SSH tunnel[10:49:28] <some_dude> it's only local[10:49:33] <dibblego> it's not[10:49:51] <dibblego> adsl-69-151-150-121.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net TCP/5900 is open to the internet[10:50:32] <some_dude> oh, that's just a toy computer, it's off 99% of the time[10:51:54] *** lobz has joined ##java[10:52:16] <some_dude> it's dead now[10:54:09] *** Mactabilis has joined ##java[10:54:38] <some_dude> it's odd that i can reach the ports[10:55:27] <dibblego> they may have bound to a specific netword interface[10:57:19] *** jonx has quit IRC[10:58:44] *** hatOFF has joined ##java[10:58:47] <hatOFF> Is there someone here that knows both C and Java?[10:59:08] <dibblego> nope[10:59:15] <dibblego> Java is the only language in the world[10:59:19] <agnul> me, me, me :-)[10:59:44] <dibblego> claiming to "know Java" or "know C" is easily discredited; I've yet to see the claim to hold true[10:59:50] <roots-> i did c for a living for years[11:00:05] <roots-> yet i dont know it too well[11:00:08] <roots-> same is true for java[11:00:24] <hatOFF> I created a socket server in java[11:00:34] <dibblego> survey questions are boring[11:00:36] <hatOFF> but when a guy audited it he told me it has to be rewritten in C[11:00:44] <roots-> hatOFF: why is that ?[11:00:58] <dibblego> lol[11:01:03] *** JViz has joined ##java[11:01:06] <hatOFF> because of some security flaws and that on >1000 users the java socket server will crash[11:01:12] <dibblego> did he have the term "senior" or "architect" in his job title?[11:01:14] <roots-> >1000 concurrent connections ?[11:01:25] <hatOFF> yes[11:01:31] <dibblego> yes, to me?[11:01:36] <hatOFF> no, to roots[11:01:39] <roots-> tell him to go fuck off[11:01:44] <dibblego> well, it's rubbish[11:01:45] <hatOFF> to you, he is programming since 3 years on rentacoder[11:01:45] <roots-> also hit him on the nose[11:01:47] <dibblego> and do what roots- said[11:01:55] <hatOFF> :)[11:02:14] *** Conductor has joined ##java[11:02:20] <Conductor> how do i encode an url?[11:02:29] <dibblego> with a URL encoder[11:02:37] *** dmiles_akf has joined ##java[11:02:38] <roots-> encode in what ?[11:03:00] <Conductor> ah i see: java.net.Class URLEncoder[11:03:06] <roots-> hatOFF: where are you from ?[11:03:12] <hatOFF> .ro[11:03:14] <dmiles_akf> who here runs out of sockets alot .. becasue of other apps?[11:03:42] <dibblego> dmiles_akf: if you do, you have some serious issues[11:04:01] <dmiles_akf> Outlook, Yahoo Messenger, sometimes my code[11:04:28] <dibblego> again, serious serious issues[11:04:40] <roots-> running out of sockets ?[11:04:44] <roots-> man there 2^16 of them[11:04:52] * dmiles_akf checks and will give you exception details in a sec[11:04:54] <dibblego> you're aware that TCP permits 65535 possible ports per address?[11:04:59] <dmiles_akf> i know[11:05:12] <dmiles_akf> it makes no sense.. ok also i'll netstat to figure this out[11:05:25] <roots-> your netstat would produce a few 100kb output[11:05:47] <dmiles_akf> yeah and i think i only see about 5 bound tcp ports[11:06:00] *** agnul has quit IRC[11:06:05] <dibblego> maybe you should stop paraphrasing what sounds like an error or exception[11:06:32] <bpalmer> dibblego: is the port number affected by ipv6 at all?[11:06:35] <dmiles_akf> the app takes a few minutres to start.. i even have a gig of ram here[11:06:47] <The_Vulture> dmiles_akf: What is the actual problem[s] you are experiencing?[11:06:59] <dmiles_akf> java.net.SocketException: No buffer space available (maximum connections reached?): recv failed */[11:07:11] <dibblego> bpalmer: I know very little about ipv6[11:07:14] <The_Vulture> Right, that's somewhat more informative.[11:07:55] *** agnul has joined ##java[11:07:59] <dmiles_akf> netstat -a shows only about 20 things[11:08:37] <dmiles_akf> well my java app gets about 5 of the sockets it needs .. some it is not getting[11:09:09] <dmiles_akf> like the irc bot which uses 2 sockets (one IPC) works[11:09:26] <dmiles_akf> but the connections to the SQL databases seem to get that error alot[11:09:42] *** hzsp has joined ##java[11:09:58] <The_Vulture> do you clean up your database connections properly (and any other connections for that matter)?[11:10:01] <dibblego> who's application makes database connections?[11:10:15] <dmiles_akf> mine.. i did it raw sockets[11:10:26] <dibblego> my bet: you're leaking[11:10:30] <The_Vulture> I don't know if Window's netstat shows connections that are in the CLOSE_WAIT state or whatever it's called either..[11:11:01] <dibblego> dmiles_akf: show the code that opens the connection (and why aren't you using a JDBC driver?)[11:11:05] <dmiles_akf> well the server runs on a differnt machine.. but hrrm hjava is not supposed to let me leak ;P[11:11:15] <dibblego> yes, Java does let you leak[11:11:15] <The_Vulture> dmiles_akf: leaking connections, not memory[11:11:31] <The_Vulture> but you can leak memory too, if you keep references to things you no longer actually need[11:11:38] <dibblego> http://jqa.tmorris.net/GetQAndA.action?qids=38&showAnswers=true[11:11:40] <dmiles_akf> well right now .. for example IE is mad becasue it thinks my java app stole everything[11:12:11] <The_Vulture> dmiles_akf: stop paraphrasing[11:12:13] <dmiles_akf> and other software is unhappy until i shut of my java app[11:12:14] <The_Vulture> it's annoying[11:12:36] <dmiles_akf> ie cant get a clear socket so it goes into infinate refresh mode[11:12:57] <dibblego> does it do that while your application is running and opening database connections?[11:13:03] <dmiles_akf> only then[11:13:12] <dibblego> when you kill your application is IE "happy"?[11:13:15] <dmiles_akf> yes[11:13:20] <dibblego> leak leak leak[11:13:25] <dmiles_akf> so it is me ;P i confess[11:13:52] <dmiles_akf> but .. ok knowing this is possible ok i better see if i can prevent it[11:14:06] <dibblego> do you use finally blocks? that contain a call to close(), where *no* other code prior to the call can possibly throw an exception (or unroll the stack, such as returning)?[11:14:26] <dmiles_akf> well its rather random most of the time my app has no problem[11:14:31] <dibblego> actually, I've documented that already http://jqa.tmorris.net/GetQAndA.action?qids=38&showAnswers=true[11:14:34] <dmiles_akf> it didnt all last month[11:14:38] <The_Vulture> that doesn't answer the question..[11:14:50] <dmiles_akf> i never use finally ;([11:14:53] <The_Vulture> dmiles_akf: Do you or do you not use finally blocks to ensure your connections are closed in a timely manner?[11:14:59] <The_Vulture> That'd be a 'no' then.[11:15:03] <dibblego> then you need a walloping[11:15:13] <The_Vulture> Do you close your connections at all? are you logging any exceptions? (are you silently ignoring any exceptions?)[11:15:21] <dibblego> and I now offer more than three "leak"s[11:15:30] <bpalmer> (and, java needs a walloping, for making that rather annoying to do)[11:15:41] <The_Vulture> bpalmer: *nods*[11:15:43] <roots-> i like c# using idiom[11:15:57] <dibblego> roots-: what idiom? the using keyword you mean?[11:15:57] <The_Vulture> I prefer C++, lexically scoped objects with destructors.[11:16:00] <roots-> which is a try/finally/dispose idiom in one word[11:16:02] <roots-> dibblego: yes[11:16:07] <dibblego> the common Java idiom is inherently broken[11:16:13] *** IMTheNachoMan has quit IRC[11:16:23] <dibblego> specifically, the assignment of a local to null, then the check for null in the finally block[11:16:26] <roots-> using (bla) amounts to try { useBla.. } finally { bla.dispose(); };[11:16:36] <dibblego> ah right; I was reading about that today[11:16:42] <roots-> dibblego: indeed, it is annoying[11:16:47] <dibblego> after I listened to an interview with Bloch[11:16:49] <roots-> also catching checked exceptions in finally again[11:16:53] <dibblego> I think it was on the same website[11:16:58] <The_Vulture> dibblego: In what way is that common idiom broken?[11:16:58] <roots-> artima ?[11:17:28] <dmiles_akf> i never silently ignore the exceptions but its a rather crazy app.. it starts in doom3 the game... that makes a few sockets that talk to my server from c++.. then i start a jvm ussing jni.. normally the java has no problems.. but this month indeed something changed.. c++ is opening alt more sockets now.. in fact 44 new ones[11:17:32] <dibblego> The_Vulture: on the basis of the principle that assigning any local to null is broken, but even more so, because it is a potential source for leaks[11:17:49] <dibblego> prefer nested try blocks (Java mandates verbosity yet again)[11:17:53] <bpalmer> dibblego: "assigning any local to null is broken" ?[11:18:06] <dmiles_akf> but i thought i wouldnt be limited.. maybe its the OS stopping me[11:18:07] <The_Vulture> If the ctor doesn't complete successfully there's nothing user code can do to try to clean up after it - the ctor code should have done it itself. If it does complete successfully then you can clean it up - the only way to distinguish the cases is with a null test.[11:18:11] <dibblego> bpalmer: yes, in fact, the very existence of null is broken - I have optimal workarounds for it[11:18:22] <dibblego> The_Vulture: not so[11:18:26] <roots-> a null ?[11:18:32] <roots-> a ctor can never return null[11:18:37] <The_Vulture> roots-: Right.[11:18:41] <dibblego> The_Vulture: I have an example here: http://jqa.tmorris.net/GetQAndA.action?qids=38&showAnswers=true[11:18:51] <bpalmer> null is rather useful. I don't see why you consider it anathema[11:19:08] <dibblego> using 'null' as a flag to mean "the statement executed successfully is so... script kiddie like[11:19:20] <dibblego> bpalmer: rephrase, it "appears" useful to you today[11:19:28] <The_Vulture> dibblego: Sure, rightio.[11:19:41] <bpalmer> dibblego: not at all, I make extensive use of it[11:19:44] <bpalmer> it *is* useful[11:19:46] <dibblego> bpalmer: precisely[11:19:50] <hzsp> morning all[11:20:12] <dibblego> appears useful[11:20:29] <dibblego> asserting Truth based on personal experiences is so annoying[11:20:32] <The_Vulture> dibblego: You claim an objective viewpoint that can render definitions based on more than "appreance"?[11:20:41] <The_Vulture> dibblego: What other kind of assertion could one possibly make?[11:20:51] <The_Vulture> It's implicit that any assertion is based on personal experience.[11:20:51] <dibblego> The_Vulture: a scientific one at least[11:20:58] <dibblego> not so[11:21:07] <bpalmer> I'm just trying to figure out what sort of definition dibblego attaches to useful that is not coupled in some fashion to "being used"[11:21:42] <dibblego> bpalmer: let's change it all around; you offer me some code where you use 'null'; I'll rewrite it to not use null, along with the appropriate text to make the assertion that it is only "appearing" to be useful to you[11:21:58] <The_Vulture> dibblego: You state, unequivocally that "the very existence of null is broken" - this is based on what is apparent to you from your experience - not some superior objective viewpoint.[11:22:30] <The_Vulture> You can equally restate your assertion the way you tried to restate bpalmer's.[11:22:41] <dibblego> here's an interesting point to note: *all* of my public APIs (on interfaces) that accept at least one reference type, declare to throw NullPointerException, in orderto fail as early as possible (unfortunate limitation of the language); *none* of my local contexts have the keyword null (except for the check)[11:22:55] <dibblego> The_Vulture: I'm not stating my assumptions for brevity[11:23:03] <The_Vulture> dibblego: and nor is bpalmer[11:23:08] <dibblego> so be it[11:23:09] <The_Vulture> it's implicit in everything anyone could possibly say[11:23:31] *** teralaser has joined ##java[11:23:36] <The_Vulture> granted some people don't realise it and hold on to their opinions as absolute truth, but I think those in this discussion can see past that[11:23:39] <dibblego> if I was wiped off the planet, or never existed in the first place, null would still be broken[11:23:51] <dibblego> yes, that is what I was trying to mean,[11:24:09] <The_Vulture> dibblego: in your sense of broken it would be, though that sense would not really exist[11:24:25] <dibblego> "broken" can be elaborated, but I think we all agree on the context[11:24:48] <bpalmer> void foo(Object key) { Object o = hash.get(key); if (o == null) { ... } else { ... } } // I can see some ways of not using null, but they themselves seem rather awkward[11:25:02] <dibblego> I have some email trails with Neal Gafter and Josh Bloch on this issue actually, they are at work - I'm sure they won't mind[11:25:21] <roots-> you can have null in a collection[11:25:23] <bpalmer> personally, my only request for improvement with null is that it should support all of the methods that Object implements[11:25:23] <dibblego> bpalmer: the issue there is that you have a third party dependancy[11:25:24] <roots-> like a hashmap[11:25:29] <dibblego> such as java.util[11:25:30] <roots-> containsKey and get are different thus[11:25:42] <bpalmer> roots-: ah, good point, you're right[11:25:44] <dibblego> if it mandates that null is returned for condition C, then what can you do about it?[11:26:07] <The_Vulture> dibblego: how would you then encapsulate the retrieval and testing for containment in one operation - avoiding two lookups? (yes I can think of a few ways, just interested to hear yours)[11:26:13] <dibblego> the correct solution is to use a decent collections API (which I am writing/have written) that doesn't perform such an atrocity[11:26:34] <dibblego> though I admit, I handle nulls (so that I can adapt to such things as java.util.List)[11:26:37] <The_Vulture> I quite enjoy the way C++ collections work, though that's another story.[11:27:08] <bpalmer> The_Vulture: I find the distinction between vector's operator[] and .get to be a little ungainly[11:27:09] *** pisi has joined ##java[11:27:12] <dibblego> The_Vulture: do you mean, for example, the implementation of Map.containsKey[11:27:13] <roots-> you the STL ?[11:27:31] <dibblego> or actually, Map.containsValue (since it is O(n))[11:28:18] <pisi> if i have created a xml dom tree, how can i serialize it to a string AND omit the xml declaration ?[11:28:20] <The_Vulture> dibblego: I mean if I want to do one thing if an entry does not exist (either an element in a List, Map, or Set, the same principle seems to apply) or do something with the element if it does exist. Without having to do two separate lookups.[11:28:25] <The_Vulture> Each of which could be non-trivial.[11:28:29] <dibblego> http://www.xdweb.net/~dibblego/javadoc/ this is quiteold, and only represents an "ordered sequence of elements", some of which can be null (do to the requirement to adapt to java.util.List)[11:28:31] <The_Vulture> and are presumably just as complex as the other[11:28:40] <bpalmer> pisi: your xmloutputter may have a flag you can set[11:28:47] <bpalmer> I believe I remember jdom having such a beast, for example[11:29:08] <pisi> first please tell me how do i get my hands to the xmloutputter ?[11:29:38] <The_Vulture> A List probably isn't the best example - since it's rare that someone wants to retrieve an element equal to a pre-existing object. (eg Foo f = ...; Foo g = list.get(f); /* returning some g.equals(f) */) - a Map would be a more common example[11:29:56] <bpalmer> pisi: I use jdom, because I find the w3 interface in Java to be quite painful to use[11:30:03] <dibblego> The_Vulture: the "more correct" (again, my assumptions unstated) way is to return a more appropriate abstraction that the client can query; off the top of my head, but almost certainly not quite right interface{boolean isAvailable();E getElement() throws IllegalStateException; /* if isAvailable() returns false */}[11:30:32] <The_Vulture> dibblego: Well since you're working on a collections framework - have you got to a thing like Map, and how have you handled this case?[11:30:36] *** ulver has joined ##java[11:30:38] <dibblego> erm, excuse the screw ups[11:30:44] <pisi> ahem.. I've used the w3 interface and usign xerces-xalan.[11:30:52] <The_Vulture> dibblego: Have you got any experience with C++'s collections & algorithms system?[11:30:53] <bpalmer> pisi: so I would simply do an XMLOutputter outputter = new XMLOutputter(Format.getPrettyFormat());[11:30:53] <ulver> wella all![11:31:01] <dibblego> The_Vulture: not yet; and it's not going to be like java.util.Map, but I'm almost certainly going to handle null, since I will adapt to java.util.Map[11:31:03] <The_Vulture> Yeah, that was one of the ways I had in mind, just interested to see your thoughts[11:31:16] <ulver> xmloutputter.....[11:31:21] <ulver> jdom![11:31:41] <roots-> in STL concepts are fundamentally different[11:31:47] <dibblego> The_Vulture: I used them for about 6 months, a long time ago, and a C++ bigot at work (who's opinion I trust a lot), talks about it with me, so not really[11:31:53] <roots-> iterators play a more central role in generic treatment of collections[11:31:59] <nater> where does an image have to be for an application to use it if i'm using this: Image image = Toolkit.getDefaultToolkit().getImage("foo.gif");[11:32:01] <ulver> Have you interfaced Java and MS Word?[11:32:10] <nater> i have it in the directory with my source code... that should work right?[11:32:18] <ulver> i must do it, to interface a db with ms word but not using macro[11:32:18] <roots-> items are stored into collections by value and a copy is made prior to storage[11:32:27] <dibblego> roots-: yuk[11:32:30] <roots-> nater: i doubt you want to use this[11:32:32] <dibblego> oh you mean StL[11:32:38] <dibblego> *STL[11:32:40] <nater> roots: why not?[11:32:42] <roots-> dibblego: it has some nice aspects, yes[11:32:49] <The_Vulture> dibblego: well sort of - the STL refers to an old subset of what is now the standard library[11:32:49] <roots-> nater: because it returns before the image is fully loaded[11:32:58] <The_Vulture> but more or less, yes[11:33:08] *** YD has joined ##java[11:33:15] <roots-> nater: its an advanced feature most people dont want in their apps[11:33:29] <roots-> nater: this method searches for the image relative to your current working directory[11:33:41] <bpalmer> ulver: perhaps you can do something using VBA[11:33:44] <dmiles_akf> ok question.. i got the out of buffer space on some of the first sockets i try to open.. but not the later[11:33:47] <bpalmer> I think it can access COM objects[11:33:47] <roots-> as determined by System.getProperty("user.dir")[11:33:54] <The_Vulture> dibblego: Basically it can't deal in null pointers, because containers can be of a value type. That and it has a nice separation between containers and algorithms - though the full power of that is only available to a language with templates or similar forms of polymorphism.[11:33:59] <ulver> bpalmer, yes but i must use java or perl[11:34:00] <dibblego> dmiles_akf: more importantly, found your leak yet?[11:34:06] *** ph8 has joined ##java[11:34:21] <roots-> i dont think templates play any central role in STL[11:34:26] <dibblego> The_Vulture: yeah, that statement rings a couple of bells[11:34:28] *** Bevin has joined ##java[11:34:35] <roots-> you could achieve the same by using a common ancestor base class[11:34:36] <roots-> like Object[11:34:38] <bpalmer> roots-: *blink* the entire algorithm quarter of the STL?[11:34:39] <Bevin> hi[11:34:45] <dmiles_akf> dibblego: it wont give me a chance to leak.. only the first 2 sockets attempts cause the error.. the ones after that have no problems[11:34:53] <The_Vulture> roots-: hardly[11:34:56] <The_Vulture> roots-: Algorithms[11:35:05] <roots-> bpalmer: whether you specify an input as callback or as a template it doesnt matter[11:35:17] <dibblego> dmiles_akf: if you don't use finally blocks, you're almost certainly leaking; have you read the referenced document yet?[11:35:22] <The_Vulture> roots-: they basically all deal in iterator pairs. You can't get that kind of genericity in Java - you just couldn't create an iterator pair for an array the same way as a collection, etc..[11:35:29] <roots-> the difference seems to me more related to concepts like iterators playing a central role and the semantics of value objects[11:35:37] <ulver> with perl it's easy[11:35:45] <roots-> The_Vulture: sure you can, you can even today[11:35:46] <ulver> but i love java more and more than perl :D[11:35:53] <dmiles_akf> dibblego: ok.. i'll code it up in a way people think is dependable ;([11:35:55] <The_Vulture> roots-: Well if Sun chose a better mechanism when introducing the foreach looping construct (giving arrays real Iterators instead of making it another special case) you might be able to.[11:35:57] <ulver> (or with python)[11:35:59] <roots-> Arras.asList(new String[] { "one", "two" }).iterator()[11:36:05] <The_Vulture> roots-: you can wrap an array in a List and get an iterator, yes[11:36:25] <The_Vulture> (side note: your example could be simplified to Arrays.asList("one", "two").iterator() with the advent of varargs)[11:36:35] <The_Vulture> but it's far less elegant imo.[11:36:52] <dibblego> net.tmorris.adt.Sequence solves all that :)[11:36:56] <bpalmer> ulver: there was an example on perl.com a while back about how to interface with COM (in their case, itunes) using perl[11:37:00] <The_Vulture> Again, you can also get iterators over subsequences with List:subList(..).iterator() but still not as nice as quick iterator arithmetic[11:37:01] <dibblego> er net.tmorris.adt.sequence.Sequence[11:37:05] *** silasj has joined ##java[11:37:05] <bpalmer> that article might be worth lookign for[11:37:28] <roots-> The_Vulture: the sublist view concepts adds API strength to collections[11:37:43] <roots-> and it in a way is as strong as the iterator concept of STL[11:37:53] <dibblego> sublist view concepts?[11:38:01] <roots-> downside is you end up with a few indirections too many[11:38:04] <dibblego> you mean, obtaining a part of a list without copying data?[11:38:04] <The_Vulture> roots-: I disagree as to the strength.[11:38:20] <roots-> suppose you want to iterator backwards over the indices 5 through 10 of an array[11:38:25] <roots-> iterate even[11:38:57] <roots-> now with a reverseList-view combined with a sublist-view you can do that[11:39:04] <roots-> passing that as an iterator[11:39:14] <The_Vulture> "Lengthable".. *cringe* what a nasty name. Sizeable would have been more fun & consistent.[11:39:21] <The_Vulture> dibblego: Are Sets Lengthable? (or will they be)[11:39:25] <ulver> thanks bpalmer[11:39:33] <dibblego> final Sequence<Integer> s = ArraySequenceImpl.getArraySequence(0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10);final BidirectionalIterator<Integer> i = s.getIterator(5);[11:39:35] <The_Vulture> I've never much liked the idea of "bag" like structures having a length, size just sounds more correct.[11:39:36] <dmiles_akf> dibblego: oh crap, http://jqa.tmorris.net/GetQAndA.action?qids=38&showAnswers=true.. that is soo lame that the first code snippit is wrong[11:39:49] <dibblego> The_Vulture: yes; I might change it to size as you noted[11:40:03] <dibblego> dmiles_akf: what is wrong?[11:40:25] <dmiles_akf> that finally is nescisary[11:40:37] <dibblego> dmiles_akf: what are you on about?[11:40:44] <The_Vulture> dmiles_akf: The point was to demonstrate that..[11:40:56] <The_Vulture> (and it's "necessary")[11:41:17] <dibblego> I've made nil progress getting PHP running on Apache, yay[11:41:29] <dibblego> bloody freenode ##java and it's vultures :)[11:41:39] <The_Vulture> ;)[11:41:45] <dmiles_akf> well in should be freed at the end of m(..) no matter what[11:41:54] <dmiles_akf> even if 'e' has it[11:42:02] <The_Vulture> Can't say I've ever played with PHP (on Apache or elsewhere) - though I use Debian so it'd just be a simple matter of aptitude install stuff..[11:42:02] <dibblego> dmiles_akf: you sure about that?[11:42:05] <dmiles_akf> since 'e' and 'in' should be freed[11:42:06] *** silasj has quit IRC[11:42:09] <dibblego> The_Vulture: me neither, yet[11:42:14] <dibblego> dmiles_akf: positive?[11:42:31] <dibblego> dmiles_akf: remember it is *you* who has the resource leak, *me* who is paid to fix them, and *me* who wrote that code sample[11:42:35] <The_Vulture> dmiles_akf: err.. this is Java - 'e' is eligible for GC as soon as the exception handler finishes..[11:42:36] <dmiles_akf> dibblego: i guess not if someones still using them.. like somone holdings a string from 'e'[11:42:40] <The_Vulture> and 'in' does similarly[11:42:40] <dibblego> reflect on that for a moment[11:42:46] <The_Vulture> (well at the end of the try block instead)[11:42:59] <The_Vulture> dmiles_akf: you seem to be misunderstanding things[11:43:01] *** terence_ has quit IRC[11:43:02] <dmiles_akf> my string holding is a bad example[11:43:42] <dmiles_akf> since they cant be held ;P but ok if a discared X() will 'in' and 'e' go away maybe?[11:43:51] <The_Vulture> dmiles_akf: what?[11:43:51] <dibblego> maybe?[11:44:20] *** fandeholly has joined ##java[11:45:17] <dmiles_akf> wait.. that code snipit.. you'd forgot to put a in.coles() on the IOException[11:45:31] <dmiles_akf> the in.close() in the catch[11:45:32] <The_Vulture> dmiles_akf: he couldn't put it there - the scope's wrong[11:45:40] <The_Vulture> dmiles_akf: read the text, it explains what he's trying to demonstrat[11:45:41] <The_Vulture> e[11:45:52] <The_Vulture> the code has one specific flaw that's there deliberately[11:46:00] <dmiles_akf> in needs to be moved up a bit abouve the try.. InputStream in = null;[11:46:02] <The_Vulture> the second example shows one way to solve this problem[11:46:10] <The_Vulture> dmiles_akf: JUST READ THE FUCKING TEXT.[11:46:15] * The_Vulture smiles sweetly[11:46:19] <roots-> gosh, there is runtime exceptions[11:46:24] <roots-> bailing out of the method[11:47:28] <roots-> anyhow the file-open try/finally is a standard idiom[11:47:41] <roots-> just stick to what you see in smart people's code, i do the same[11:47:45] *** fmachado has quit IRC[11:48:02] *** TPC has joined ##java[11:48:50] <TPC> I'm trying to sort an array with objects in it, but since the array isn't full, the sorting throws NullPointerException and aborts the sort, but I just want the items with nothing in them to go at the end of the array[11:48:55] <TPC> is it possible to do it like that?[11:49:13] <The_Vulture> TPC: Yes. Use a custom Comparator.[11:49:19] <bpalmer> TPC: give it a comparator that does the "right" thing[11:49:50] <TPC> could you point me towards an example?[11:50:00] <The_Vulture> TPC: read the javadocs for the Comparator interface.[11:50:01] <dmiles_akf> ok one question, it seems only the first few minutes my app gets that exception after its been running for a while (20 minutes) i am assuming garbage collection finally happened .. why did the leaks go away?[11:50:25] <The_Vulture> dmiles_akf: just go make sure you're closing all your connections in a timely fassion for starters..[11:50:40] <The_Vulture> ensure you're not silently ignoring any exceptions, that you close connections even in exceptional cases, etc..[11:50:47] *** terence_ has joined ##java[11:51:44] <dmiles_akf> can it trying to getHostByName inspire it it the DNS servers are misconfigured?[11:52:08] <dmiles_akf> i mean i think its happened when i try to resolve the hostname[11:52:38] <dmiles_akf> if i dont resolve the hostname first.. just ussing IP.. it connects fine[11:52:43] <dmiles_akf> wierd[11:53:32] <dmiles_akf> but anyhow hanging things to be very carefull about making sure i handle exceptions with care[11:57:10] *** jenner has joined ##java[11:57:12] <jenner> heya[12:02:52] <some_dude> to run a .jar file, i say java -jar <filename> ?[12:03:23] <The_Vulture> some_dude: try it.. what happens?[12:03:38] *** Kallistor has joined ##java[12:03:58] <some_dude> you know what happens it runs fine with a strange lack of connection[12:04:33] <The_Vulture> that's non-specific. Exactly what does it do when it tries to connect? does it produce any error messages, logs, etc?[12:06:03] <some_dude> let me see if i can find some logs, i know it makes an connection to the sever at port 1113 and 1114 sucessfully, but says it can not find the server[12:06:57] <some_dude> it does not create error logs[12:08:51] <some_dude> is there a problem with my java install ?[12:09:07] <some_dude> it's 1.5.x and the a vendor says use 1.2.4[12:09:30] <some_dude> 1.5.0_04[12:09:31] <The_Vulture> *shrugs* could be a problem with a great many things. You could try using a packet sniffer like ethereal to see what's being communicated across the links & compare it with the communications of a successful run on another system..[12:09:57] *** Lamex has joined ##java[12:12:32] <some_dude> I have noticed that when i hit the about box on windows i see the ip, but when i hit it on linux it's not there[12:14:37] <TPC> The_Vulture, I've read the docs, but I don't really understand what I need to do[12:14:50] <some_dude> it's just that neither the server nor the client will work on linux[12:14:55] <some_dude> what is multicasting ?[12:15:35] <TPC> multicasting is sending the same paket to mutiple targets[12:16:15] <some_dude> and that's kernel level ?[12:17:30] *** Ulgar has joined ##java[12:17:47] <dibblego> ~tell TPC about npe[12:17:47] <javabot> TPC, npe is http://www.tmorris.net/pubs/npe/ or alternatively http://lavender.cime.net/~ricky/java-errors/NullPointerException.html[12:18:54] <TPC> dibblego, I know what the problem is[12:18:59] <TPC> I just don't know what to do about it[12:19:05] *** cybereal has quit IRC[12:19:27] <dibblego> what is the problem?[12:19:38] <The_Vulture> TPC: So.. what operation are you using to sort your sequence?[12:20:00] <dibblego> you're using Arrays.sort with null elements?[12:20:03] <TPC> yes[12:20:10] <TPC> I need to sort an array with null elements[12:20:14] <dibblego> so do what The_Vulture said, use a Comparator[12:20:18] <TPC> I think I am[12:20:21] <TPC> but its not working[12:20:28] <The_Vulture> TPC: What are you doing, exactly?[12:20:31] <dibblego> "not working"[12:20:33] <TPC> let me paste the code somewhere[12:20:38] <dibblego> good ol' "not working"[12:20:49] *** talios has quit IRC[12:20:52] *** terence_ has quit IRC[12:22:05] <Drone> View TPC's post at: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8595[12:22:09] *** Mactabilis has quit IRC[12:22:12] <TPC> thats what I found after some googling[12:22:31] <TPC> do I need to do antyhing else than that?[12:23:15] <dibblego> that's not a Comparator[12:23:18] *** OleMoudi has joined ##java[12:23:30] <dibblego> ~tell TPC about javadoc Comparator[12:23:30] <javabot> TPC, please see java.util.Comparator: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/Comparator.html[12:24:52] <TPC> hmm[12:29:57] <nater> i'm still not able to load an image, i think i've either got the path wrong(unlikely) or permissions are off(i've set it 777 and chown to myself)[12:30:40] *** Jax has joined ##java[12:31:02] <Jax> good day![12:31:38] <Kallistor> is it?[12:31:45] <nater> i keep geting a runtime error of java.lang.NullPointerException at the line where i add the image to my mediatracker[12:31:58] <nater> mt.addImage(image, 0);[12:32:03] <The_Vulture> nater: so, have you RTFM for the NullPointerException class..[12:32:04] <dibblego> ~tell nater about npe[12:32:05] <javabot> nater, npe is http://www.tmorris.net/pubs/npe/ or alternatively http://lavender.cime.net/~ricky/java-errors/NullPointerException.html[12:32:15] <The_Vulture> nater: is that line the actual source of the NPE, or just somewhere in the middle of the stack trace?[12:32:50] *** tommi^ has quit IRC[12:33:01] <nater> the_vulture: its what gets spit out at me when i try to run my program[12:33:28] <dibblego> javabot: tell nater to RTFM or be precise[12:33:28] <javabot> The syntax is: tell nick about factoid - you missed out the 'about', dibblego[12:33:37] <The_Vulture> nater: a stack trace should be there too.. it should tell you on which line things happened, etc..[12:34:21] <dmiles_akf> grr "java.net.SocketInputStream.socketRead0" http://66.14.82.104/doom3/base/dm-server.txt[12:35:29] <dmiles_akf> i looked more closely and the error happens before i start doing my socket handling.. it was calling someones code at org.opencyc.api.CycConnection .. but then my sockets have no troubles right after? why is that?[12:35:50] <dmiles_akf> so the bufferspace is only full on that thread maybe?[12:36:22] <dmiles_akf> my security mananger caugth him trying to kill the jvm[12:36:35] *** axionline has joined ##java[12:37:04] <nater> the_vulture: it did, i pasted the offending line[12:37:08] <nater> mt.addImage(image, 0);[12:38:07] *** adante has joined ##java[12:38:51] <The_Vulture> nater: yes, and I asked: is that line the root of the stack trace, or just a line within the trace?[12:39:10] <dmiles_akf> so my question is is "java.net.SocketInputStream.socketRead0(Native Method)[12:39:37] <dmiles_akf> oops so my question is its not out of TCP ports but out of arrayspace?[12:39:56] * hzsp beats junit remote debugging :([12:40:05] <dmiles_akf> since i easilly opened sockets and used them succssfully[12:40:56] *** LLyric has joined ##java[12:43:48] <dmiles_akf> oh my god i fixed it! i just made sure my c++ portion was ussing the correct JVM .. see http://66.14.82.104/doom3/base/dm-server.log[12:43:59] <nater> the_vulture: just a line in the stack trace, the only other one there is a reference from another class to method the other line resides in[12:44:30] <dmiles_akf> i had two installs of java.. so i was ussing the _02 rt.jar with _05[12:45:00] <dmiles_akf> and thats all that caused my buffer out of space[12:45:18] <ulver> bpalmer, the solution is java+python :D[12:46:54] <dmiles_akf> i suggest the jvm should compilain when the wrong rt.jar is loaded.. not that i want us to be prevented from writting our own.. but at least some version snaity[12:47:08] <dmiles_akf> sanity[12:48:09] <bpalmer> ulver: oh?[12:48:43] <The_Vulture> nater: so.. what do the docs for NullPointerException tell you about the possible causes?[12:48:52] <The_Vulture> which ones might apply, and how would they do so, to the line in question?[12:49:04] <roots-> nater: you dont need a mediatracker[12:49:05] <ulver> java+python for the ms word automation[12:49:12] <roots-> nater: not if you use ImageIcon[12:49:17] <TPC> hm.. now it throws a ClassCastException[12:49:18] <roots-> new ImageIcon(...).getImage()[12:49:28] <roots-> blocks until the image is loaded, you type less error prone code[12:49:43] <dmiles_akf> python has good COM/OLE control ulver?[12:49:52] <ulver> dmiles_akf, yes[12:49:55] <The_Vulture> TPC: so fix it :)[12:50:21] <dmiles_akf> ulver, sad you have to go that far ;P[12:50:21] <ulver> i can link?[12:50:38] <TPC> The_Vulture, well.. I don't know what is wrong, its the Arrays.sort() that trows the exception, so I don't know what in the comparator is wrong[12:50:41] <dmiles_akf> ulver, no *you* but anyone[12:50:49] <dmiles_akf> s/no/not[12:51:03] <nater> the_vulture: the one i read said it's a 95% chance i dereferenced something[12:52:13] <dmiles_akf> ulver, i think the next thing i gotta do is get the jvm embeeded into python[12:52:38] <The_Vulture> TPC: pastebin the stack trace, relevant lines of code, etc..[12:52:39] <dmiles_akf> ulver, but i am guessing alot of that has been done[12:52:47] <ulver> jython[12:52:51] <nater> the_vulture: this is odd, it's telling me it can't find the symbol for the constructor for MediaTracker[12:53:44] <The_Vulture> nater: so perhaps you're calling a ctor that doesn't exist..[12:53:49] <dmiles_akf> ulver, 100% Pure Java[12:53:50] *** ^cool^tom^ has joined ##java[12:53:53] <Drone> View TPC's post at: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8596[12:53:58] <ulver> mmm opencyc.... in my university is more used[12:53:58] <^cool^tom^> Hi[12:54:14] <ulver> dmiles_akf, cool[12:54:28] <dmiles_akf> yeah.. i do the opencyc java api[12:55:00] <nater> the_vulture: how can it not exist? its part of the language? i have an import statement pointing directly to it[12:55:01] <dmiles_akf> i just got done with prolog and c binding for it.. getting to python soon[12:55:11] <ulver> dmiles_akf, :D[12:55:20] <TPC> is the code at that url right?[12:55:45] <dibblego> TPC: state your problem clearly, if you observe a CCE, post the stack trace to the appropriate place[12:55:45] <The_Vulture> TPC: a) your Comparator's not quite right - what if they're both null? b) I asked for the exception stack trace too..[12:56:17] <TPC> ah, sorry, I posted those lines before I saw your responce[12:56:36] <ulver> dmiles_akf, i say this to a my friend that works with opencyc[12:56:42] <dibblego> a common beginner mistake is to look at a stack trace as something so scary, that it's not worth reading; it actually holds a guaranteed answer to your problem[12:56:47] *** Conductor has quit IRC[12:57:27] *** watzlaf has quit IRC[12:58:10] <ricky_clarkson> *yawn*[12:58:26] <Drone> View TPC's post at: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8597[12:58:29] <TPC> better?[12:58:59] <dibblego> show Main.java line 124[12:59:30] <TPC> oops, typo, but not releated to the exception[12:59:33] <ricky_clarkson> TPC: Make your Comparator generic.[13:00:14] <ricky_clarkson> Oh, sorry, it's compareTo. Well, can you implement Comparable<User> instead of just Comparable (dunno)?[13:00:27] <TPC> here is line 124: Arrays.sort(users);[13:00:36] <dibblego> it's a Comparator[13:00:48] <dibblego> TPC: right, now go here: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/Arrays.html#sort(java.lang.Object[])[13:00:59] <ricky_clarkson> TPC: What is the declaration of users?[13:01:01] <dibblego> look for the words "Throws ClassCastException"[13:01:28] <dibblego> and when you find those words, tell me why a ClassCastException will be thrown according to the spec[13:02:05] <TPC> ricky_clarkson, users is: User[] users = new User[100];[13:02:16] <ricky_clarkson> TPC: Ok, answer dibblego. ;)[13:02:25] <TPC> I'm looking[13:02:47] <dibblego> you want to find the sort(Object[]) method[13:02:56] <dibblego> they are in alphabetical order[13:03:00] <dibblego> the list of methods[13:03:06] <dibblego> see al the methods called sort?[13:03:17] <ricky_clarkson> dibblego: Not only that but you gave him a direct link.[13:03:20] <TPC> yes, I see it[13:03:24] <roots-> do you see the invisible orange ?[13:03:30] <TPC> I'm just slow at responding[13:03:31] <dibblego> ricky_clarkson: some browsers screw up anchors[13:03:40] <roots-> netscape2 did[13:03:41] <dibblego> TPC: so tell me why[13:04:09] <TPC> it says that the array contains elements that are not mutually compareable[13:04:34] <dibblego> right, so now you have an authoritative, absolute, clear-cut, unambiguous (lol!?) answer[13:04:49] <dibblego> your next question is "what does that mean", am I right?[13:04:55] <TPC> something like that[13:05:03] <TPC> but my guess is that I need to use another sort() method[13:05:12] <dibblego> mine too[13:05:23] <dmiles_akf> dibblego: you heard i solved the problem: was becasue i had lib and jre/lib that wasnt good with the java.dll i loaded from c++[13:05:25] <dibblego> since if users contains null elements, it'll screw up again[13:05:28] <dibblego> back to the spec.[13:05:29] <The_Vulture> TPC: you created a custom Comparator - how do you expect the sort algorithm to use it if you don't specify it somehow..[13:05:43] <dibblego> do you see the sort method that accepts a Comparator?[13:05:55] <dibblego> dmiles_akf: I have amnesia, and forget what your problem was[13:06:08] *** Ulgar has quit IRC[13:06:08] <dmiles_akf> dibblego: but i promise the use finally after my last catch()[13:06:28] <dibblego> dmiles_akf: especially for external resources like sockets and files[13:06:31] <dibblego> and database connections[13:07:48] <TPC> what I don't get is what the <T> thing is[13:07:50] <dmiles_akf> finally i was thinking just alias to catch (Throwable e) {}[13:07:57] <ricky_clarkson> ~tel TPC about generics[13:07:57] <javabot> Did you mean tell TPC about generics?[13:08:03] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell TPC about generics[13:08:03] <javabot> TPC, generics is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/language/generics.html[13:08:11] <ricky_clarkson> javabot: yes, I did.[13:08:12] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, I have no idea what yes, I did is.[13:08:36] <ricky_clarkson> ~yes, I did is <reply>I thought so. *shrug*[13:08:37] <javabot> Okay, ricky_clarkson.[13:08:38] <dmiles_akf> but finally probly is the only thing that finishes scope for a try {}[13:08:55] <ricky_clarkson> The scope of a try {} is the try {}.[13:09:01] <dibblego> wtf?[13:09:06] <dmiles_akf> hehe oops yeah[13:09:11] <dibblego> dmiles_akf: stop making silly babble[13:09:40] <dmiles_akf> finally is not the same as catch (Throwable unused) ?[13:09:50] <ricky_clarkson> dmiles_akf: s/\?/./[13:09:54] <dibblego> if it was, it would be called catch (Throwable unused)[13:10:23] <ricky_clarkson> dmiles_akf: Reasonable applications do not catch Throwable or Error.[13:10:37] <ricky_clarkson> And some would argue that Exception should not be caught either, in most cases.[13:10:38] *** ^cool^tom^ has left ##java[13:10:44] <ricky_clarkson> ~don't catch exception[13:10:45] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, don't catch exception is http://findbugs.sourceforge.net/bugDescriptions.html#REC_CATCH_EXCEPTION and http://checkstyle.sourceforge.net/config_coding.html#IllegalCatch[13:11:49] *** The_Vulture has quit IRC[13:12:36] <dmiles_akf> i love the package name: com.puppycrawl.tools.checkstyle.checks.coding[13:12:37] <roots-> what about runtime exception ?[13:12:50] <dibblego> let's not[13:13:45] <ricky_clarkson> I don't see why not to catch RuntimeException, as long as you do something useful with it.[13:16:19] <ricky_clarkson> dibblego: If you had a collection of Blahs and wanted to get all the instances of BlahSubInterface from it, would that be a broken requirement in your opinion?[13:16:25] *** Bevin has quit IRC[13:16:33] <dibblego> I don't understand that[13:16:43] <ricky_clarkson> Collection<Blah>=something;[13:16:45] <dibblego> also, broken requirements exist independantly of my opinions[13:17:06] <ricky_clarkson> Collection<BlahInterface> thing=new ArrayList<BlahInterface>();[13:17:22] <dibblego> I'm still confused[13:17:30] <dibblego> how are Blah and BlahInterface related?[13:17:43] <ricky_clarkson> for (final Blah blah: something){ if (blah instanceof BlahInterface) thing.add(blah);[13:17:51] <ricky_clarkson> BlahInterface is a sub interface of Blah.[13:17:55] <dibblego> yuk[13:18:01] <ricky_clarkson> It was supposed to be BlahSubInterface. ;)[13:18:21] <dibblego> are you trying to figure out how not to cast and/or use instanceof while still using inheritance?[13:18:38] *** nater has quit IRC[13:18:54] <ricky_clarkson> Only for this case, I suppose.[13:19:09] <dibblego> you should join #jtiger and hassle #jtiger, I suck at explaining these things as you have noticed[13:19:15] <dibblego> er, hassle dmlloyd[13:19:22] *** timing has left ##java[13:19:34] <dibblego> do you mean, you don't strive to avoid casting and/or instanceof?[13:19:48] <ricky_clarkson> I do, but not very hard.[13:20:01] <dibblego> the fact that Java casts is a reason to invalidate interface inheritance, but I concede to that[13:20:28] <dibblego> then yes, it is defective, and be traced to requirements[13:20:33] <dibblego> *and can be[13:21:20] <dibblego> assuming a commonly accepted context of course, which I still try to formalise[13:21:22] <ricky_clarkson> Ok. I have a PositionManager, which can tell me the NetworkComponents that are a child of a particular NetworkComponent. Like a tree.[13:21:46] *** aktinos has joined ##java[13:21:53] <ricky_clarkson> But in one case I want only the children that are EthernetCards (the parent is a Computer).[13:22:06] <dibblego> I'm lost already[13:22:46] <ricky_clarkson> class PositionManager { public static Map<NetworkComponent,List<NetworkComponent>>; }[13:22:49] <ricky_clarkson> Very approximately.[13:22:59] *** fandeholly has quit IRC[13:23:06] <dibblego> odd[13:23:27] <ricky_clarkson> So if I want to know the children of a NetworkComponent, I look there.[13:23:33] <dibblego> ok[13:23:34] <ricky_clarkson> Why's that odd?[13:23:55] <dibblego> that you have a tree as a map; I was just discussing something very similar today[13:24:05] <ricky_clarkson> Well, it's not quite a tree.[13:24:12] <ricky_clarkson> E.g., an EthernetCable has two parents.[13:24:17] <ricky_clarkson> [up to two][13:24:24] <dibblego> where does EthernetCable come into it?[13:24:34] <dibblego> extends NetworkComponent?[13:24:39] <ricky_clarkson> Yep.[13:24:44] <ricky_clarkson> Well, s/Ethernet//[13:24:58] <dibblego> and defines the additional operation to obtain its additional parent?[13:25:07] <ricky_clarkson> No, PositionManager does that.[13:25:19] <dibblego> but not all NetworkComponents have two parents?[13:25:21] <ricky_clarkson> manager.getParent(component,index)[13:25:24] <ricky_clarkson> Right.[13:25:33] <ricky_clarkson> Only an EthernetCable can have two parents (atm).[13:26:02] <ricky_clarkson> Grr, I'm changing the name of EthernetCable to Cable and keep mixing them.[13:26:22] <roots-> talking about graphs[13:26:30] <dibblego> sorry mate, I have to go[13:26:40] *** dibblego has quit IRC[13:26:42] <roots-> i prefer the nomenclatura of talking about incoming/outbound/indegree/outdegree[13:27:09] * ricky_clarkson glances at roots-, then swiftly moves on.[13:28:35] <ricky_clarkson> Do you think dibblego threw a OhShitMyIdeaDoesntWorkInPracticeException?[13:28:45] <BULLE> ricky_clarkson: lol[13:30:44] *** Wufei|sleep is now known as Wufei|school[13:31:24] *** Stork is now known as stork[13:32:26] <TPC> hmm[13:32:31] <TPC> the sorting works now[13:32:51] <ricky_clarkson> One big plus of this refactor is that my code no longer has the text 'childHandler' in it.[13:33:08] <roots-> i'se a mugin[13:33:12] <roots-> whats that mean ricky ?[13:33:23] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: What?[13:33:33] <roots-> "i'se a mugin"[13:33:47] <ricky_clarkson> mugin might be a fool, I don't know.[13:33:54] <ricky_clarkson> Or it might be a verb - mugging.[13:34:07] <ricky_clarkson> I'se a mugin - I am mugging[13:34:23] <ricky_clarkson> Ich mochte context.[13:34:41] <roots-> http://www.heptune.com/iseamugg.html[13:34:47] <roots-> its a jazz classic[13:35:24] <roots-> just listening to the version from django reinhardt et le quintett du hot club du france with guest singer freddy taylor[13:35:25] <ricky_clarkson> Dick's a-muggin'[13:35:29] <roots-> are those slack lyrics ?[13:35:51] <roots-> or just nonsense ?[13:35:53] <ricky_clarkson> Looks like US slang, maybe it means 'moving'.[13:35:59] <ricky_clarkson> urbandictionary?[13:35:59] *** stork has quit IRC[13:36:19] *** pisi has quit IRC[13:36:38] *** Stork has joined ##java[13:44:01] <TPC> my program now works fully :)[13:44:14] <TPC> thanks everyone that helped me[13:44:52] <BULLE> TPC: The bill will arrive by mail in a few days .....[13:47:18] <TPC> ok ;)[13:48:18] *** OleMoudi is now known as ole|AWAY[13:50:36] *** toonX has joined ##java[13:57:17] *** toonX has quit IRC[13:57:50] *** xfrye has quit IRC[13:59:29] *** themoves has joined ##java[14:00:19] <themoves> ok, this is a stupid question but I'm asking it anyway. J2EE is enterprise edition, what EE got that SE doesn't and what do all jobs want EE experience and how can I prove it?[14:00:39] <Epesh> themoves: uh[14:00:43] <Epesh> yeah that's pretty stupid[14:01:03] <Epesh> EE has tech for distributed applications, and adds APIs to SE[14:01:24] <themoves> Epesh, not so stupid, more illeterate :([14:01:27] <Epesh> and dice.com, monster.com, etc. are cool sites[14:01:34] <Epesh> well, programming is for the literate[14:01:35] <BULLE> themoves: as Epesh explained, j2ee is basicly lots more API for enterprise type applications, that means ots of distributed communication, webservices, webappas and so on[14:01:45] *** Ulgar has joined ##java[14:01:49] *** Frankablu has joined ##java[14:01:50] <Epesh> go practice asking if people want to super-size that or if they want fries[14:01:56] <BULLE> there are decently nice j2ee tutorials at java.sun.com[14:02:08] <BULLE> super-size me![14:03:06] <Frankablu> How do you tell if 2 string buffers contain the same string?[14:03:23] <roots-> toString() on both and .equals the results[14:03:30] <BULLE> Frankablu: .equals() ?[14:03:34] <roots-> StringBuffer doesnt have equals/hashcode overridden[14:03:49] <themoves> ok, that I already knew. So imagine this, your in a job interview and your asked got j2ee experience? and you say of course, then they say prove it. How? Maybe if I had j2ee experience I would need to ask this question[14:03:49] <roots-> BULLE: so your idea is very ikea :)[14:04:00] <BULLE> roots-: he, it is ?[14:04:05] * BULLE is mr ikea[14:04:11] <Frankablu> Thanks[14:04:20] <roots-> themoves: i dont know what j2ee is[14:04:30] <roots-> still i have worked with most stuff which makes up j2ee[14:04:41] <roots-> j2ee seems to be the sum of its ingredients but no more than that[14:04:46] <BULLE> themoves: give examples of projects you have been involved with, ?[14:04:55] <Epesh> themoves: If you've done servlets, know anything about JNDI, JMS, EJB, JavaMail...[14:04:57] *** Stork has quit IRC[14:05:10] <Epesh> say, I think the j2ee pages on java.sun.com actually address what technologies make up J2EE[14:05:24] <BULLE> themoves: eg, i developed this hooker booking system for this big brothel, the serverside was a webapp running on blalalala using lolo and lili and so on[14:05:35] *** Stork has joined ##java[14:06:03] <roots-> say you worked for the medillin cartel but your work was so exceptional you got hired by the tijuana folks[14:06:29] <roots-> your ejb based, jms enabled, jndi aware future-safe systems secure drug traffic worldwide[14:07:06] <Epesh> roots-: dont forget how he architected it around SOA, using BPEL for orchestration and fast infoset for performance[14:07:25] <roots-> add some IoC, MDA, DDD[14:07:43] <BULLE> darn, im impressed by myself, i seem to have managed to introduce some memory leak or other wierd bug in my app[14:07:54] <BULLE> it slowly runs slower and slower and slower, the more i scroll around the data display window[14:08:35] *** hatOFF has quit IRC[14:09:10] <BULLE> any general advice on how to figure out what is going on in this situation ?[14:09:13] <Frankablu> How would I increase a "Integer a" by 1?[14:09:27] <themoves> ok, so revise some buzz words instead of getting actual experience and skill and bobs your uncle, new job. Brill[14:09:27] * BULLE stares at Frankablu[14:09:31] <Kallistor> lol[14:09:51] <Epesh> themoves: right[14:09:57] <KingNato> BULLE: Heap profiling might help[14:10:02] <Epesh> and like I said,practice "you want fries with that"[14:10:09] <Epesh> and "you wanna supersize that?"[14:10:22] <BULLE> KingNato: and i would just what software for that ?[14:10:40] <Epesh> BULLE: what jvm version?[14:10:49] <Epesh> There are lots of tools that'll show you heap usage[14:10:55] <Frankablu> BULLE: answer?[14:11:05] <BULLE> Epesh: oh, 1.4.2 or 1.5 i have both installed[14:11:15] <BULLE> Epesh: code is for 1.4.2[14:11:17] <Epesh> Frankablu: a=new Integer(a.intValue()+1);[14:11:21] <ricky_clarkson> Frankablu: Use int, not Integer.[14:11:29] <Epesh> BULLE: again, lots of heap tools for most JVMs[14:11:38] <BULLE> Epesh: such as ?[14:11:56] <hzsp> Google Java Profiler[14:12:00] <hzsp> ;)[14:12:02] <Frankablu> Bah couldn't they have overridden + / - * for the Integer object?[14:12:07] <Epesh> optimizeit, jprobe, etc[14:12:11] <Epesh> Frankablu: sure, but why?[14:12:18] <Baloogan> How do I make 2 netbeans projects use one file?[14:12:30] <BULLE> Baloogan: "use one file" ?[14:12:34] <Baloogan> Project A and Project B needs file lol.java[14:12:50] <ricky_clarkson> Frankablu: Try making Project C, which A and B depend on.[14:12:54] <Baloogan> And netbeans hates having 2 projects have overlapping class path.[14:12:57] <BULLE> Baloogan: put lol.java and any other shared stuff in a library[14:13:05] <ricky_clarkson> I call mine, cryptically, com.rickyclarkson.[14:13:11] <ricky_clarkson> Baloogan: So do I.[14:13:26] <Baloogan> Could someone walk me though making a library?[14:13:33] <Baloogan> And how would I deploy it?[14:13:35] <ricky_clarkson> Baloogan: Ask a librarian.[14:13:43] <Baloogan> You are just so witty.[14:13:47] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Baloogan about packages[14:13:47] <javabot> Baloogan, packages is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/java/interpack/packages.html and some example http://javafaq.mine.nu/lookup?254[14:16:03] <BULLE> Baloogan: just make a new project in netbeans[14:16:10] <BULLE> Baloogan: new project, general, library[14:16:16] <BULLE> Baloogan: what version of nb do you use ?[14:16:20] <Baloogan> 5.0 beta[14:16:21] <BULLE> im using 4.0[14:16:34] <Baloogan> I think I have it undercontrol.[14:19:49] <Baloogan> Also, is it a good practice to not use * when importing things?[14:20:00] <Baloogan> Like import java.util.*; ?[14:20:04] <Baloogan> Should I not use that?[14:20:12] <Baloogan> Is there a large performance hit or somethign?[14:20:16] <Epesh> Baloogan: no[14:20:26] <Baloogan> Epesh: Using * is ok?[14:20:34] <Epesh> Baloogan: sure[14:20:46] <Epesh> there are cases where it's nice not to, but it doesn't really matter[14:20:49] <ricky_clarkson> Baloogan: Why are you using Netbeans before you've learned Java?[14:21:18] <Baloogan> ricky_clarkson: I'm learning by doing.[14:21:35] <Epesh> netbeans != java, though[14:21:39] <ricky_clarkson> Yeah, well, Netbeans takes out some of the do, and puts in some unnecessary "Wha?".[14:22:05] <Baloogan> I noticed that when attempting RMI. I could get it to work using the console.[14:22:12] <Baloogan> And manually starting everything.[14:22:25] <Baloogan> But now I use System.setProperty(s and it works.[14:22:27] *** Blade0r has joined ##java[14:24:33] <Blade0r> Hi everyone. I have this (newbie) problem: I want to store an array of Strings within a 3 dimensional array. How would I go about doing this? i.e. I want to return: x[1][3] = {"a","b","c"}[14:24:37] <Blade0r> can anyone help?[14:24:49] *** bov has joined ##java[14:25:18] <hzsp> heh, more ide newbies, eh ricky_clarkson?[14:25:27] <Honk^away> x[1][3] <-- that's 2d, not 3d[14:26:00] <Blade0r> oh, sorry[14:26:02] <Honk^away> int x[][] = new int[]{ {0,1}, {1,2} }[14:26:06] <Honk^away> like that[14:26:30] <ricky_clarkson> Blade0r: There's hardly ever any reason to use an array greater than 1 dimension.[14:26:52] <Honk^away> ricky_clarkson: well.. 2d can be more convenient ;)[14:26:53] <Blade0r> well, i'm making an organiser application for my desktop[14:27:04] <ricky_clarkson> Honk^away: Fur die idiotsen.[14:27:12] <Epesh> Blade0r: still probably looking for a collection, not an array[14:27:17] *** Stork is now known as stork[14:27:17] <Blade0r> so i thought id have: day[month][day] = [events][14:27:21] <Honk^away> ricky_clarkson: tic-tac-toe e.g. ;)[14:27:30] *** maroffo has joined ##Java[14:27:41] <Honk^away> if you make that in 1d, you have to do the conversion yourself[14:27:44] <Honk^away> that sucks ;)[14:27:47] *** maroffo has left ##Java[14:27:49] <ricky_clarkson> Honk^away: A 1D array with a 2-arg conversion method is not tricky.[14:27:59] <Honk^away> nah, not tricky[14:28:05] <Honk^away> but unnecessary in some cases :)[14:28:44] <Blade0r> is there any way to do what I had in mind? Its the only way I can think of...[14:29:33] <ricky_clarkson> Blade0r: Try OOP.[14:29:46] <Blade0r> OOP?[14:30:01] <ricky_clarkson> Exactly.[14:30:10] * hzsp slaps ricky_clarkson[14:30:18] <hzsp> so toy with Blade0r ;)[14:30:28] <Jax> you guys use Eclipse too?[14:30:34] <Jax> just downloaded ...[14:30:43] <ricky_clarkson> I do, not everyone does.[14:31:13] <hzsp> I'm poking it with a pointing stick right now[14:31:23] <hzsp> *pointy[14:31:53] <ricky_clarkson> http://rickyclarkson.blogspot.com - lame blog on Eclipse usability.[14:32:21] *** hashman has quit IRC[14:32:25] <Epesh> I use eclipse occasionally[14:32:56] *** LLyric has quit IRC[14:34:43] *** Jax has quit IRC[14:35:55] <ricky_clarkson> At Christmas and new year?[14:36:11] <Blade0r> anyway, thanks for the help people[14:36:37] *** Blade0r has quit IRC[14:36:41] <Epesh> ricky_clarkson: nah, more often than that[14:37:12] <paulweb515> I used to use Emacs with JDE, but now I use eclipse ...[14:37:26] <Epesh> I still use emacs with jde every now and then[14:37:28] <paulweb515> of course I started working for Eclipse, so we have to eat our own dog food[14:37:35] <paulweb515> :-)[14:37:36] <Epesh> but it's so underpowered compared to the other ides...[14:37:43] *** delvinj has left ##java[14:37:47] <Epesh> paulweb515: you work for ibm or the consortium itself, or ...?[14:37:55] <paulweb515> I know, but I do love my emacs ...[14:37:58] <paulweb515> IBM[14:38:14] <Epesh> what do you do for eclipse?[14:38:34] <paulweb515> I'm part of the Platform UI team ... toolbars and such[14:40:11] <paulweb515> At my last job most of the people were using IntelliJ from IDEA[14:40:19] *** Mc_Fly has joined ##java[14:40:51] <paulweb515> It was OK as well[14:41:02] *** JViz has quit IRC[14:41:02] *** Danielle has quit IRC[14:41:16] <BULLE> paulweb515: just get some great gui designer in eclipse please! =)[14:41:41] <paulweb515> Haha ... boy are you out of luck[14:41:46] <BULLE> ye[14:41:55] <paulweb515> In my interview I mentioned my idea of a GUI was a big window with text in it :-)[14:41:57] <BULLE> i am, thats why i dont use eclipse, but neatbeans currently[14:42:09] <paulweb515> 6 of one, half dozen of another[14:43:17] <paulweb515> They're all mostly useful if you prefer IDEs, and mostly tinsel if you prefer VIM or Emacs :-)[14:44:06] *** JViz has joined ##java[14:44:07] *** Danielle has joined ##java[14:45:55] *** ulver has quit IRC[14:47:27] <paulweb515> Epesh: it's nice to able to work on an open source project[14:48:15] *** bgilb has quit IRC[14:48:58] <KingNato> paulweb515: I hope you're planning to add an elisp interpreter to eclipse :)[14:49:59] * doc|work wants to see decent jsp support[14:51:47] <Epesh> doc|work: lots of addins for that[14:52:21] <doc|work> Epesh: I'm using lomboz but its ctrl-left/right key movements are random at best :/[14:52:27] * teralaser wants to see even the smallest hairs disappear[14:52:28] <paulweb515> They're working on it in WTP, but I'm not sure how far they got[14:52:37] <teralaser> oh wait, that's the ladyshaver[14:52:42] <teralaser> :|[14:52:45] <doc|work> teralaser: and well you'd know :)[14:52:54] <paulweb515> not the ladyshaver, the JSP support[14:52:59] <doc|work> hehe[14:53:45] *** CorraSan has joined ##java[14:54:18] <Epesh> I like WTP, except it fails at odd times for me[14:54:21] <Epesh> i.e., "when I use it"[14:54:36] <paulweb515> haha[15:01:14] *** Forexs has joined ##java[15:05:34] *** Ionox has joined ##java[15:08:24] *** GarethTheGreat has joined ##java[15:09:03] *** Coffe has joined ##java[15:20:53] *** ayrnieu has quit IRC[15:20:55] *** chippy has joined ##java[15:21:48] *** bov has quit IRC[15:22:52] *** nater has joined ##java[15:24:24] *** Baloogan has quit IRC[15:26:38] *** jenner has quit IRC[15:27:13] <Coffe> When I create a JTree in netbeans, I get the some nodes by default (colors,sports,food), how do I add my own or remove them through netbeans and not by code ?[15:27:35] <ricky_clarkson> ~applet diagnostics is <reply>http://lakeaccess.org/classes/JavaTrouble.html[15:27:35] <javabot> Okay, ricky_clarkson.[15:31:43] <nater> can somebody help me with my image loading code? http://hashphp.org/pastebin?pid=5132[15:33:16] <nater> hmmm... i typed it into pastebin with a typo on 11... ignore that, its correct in my code[15:34:36] <ricky_clarkson> I think it's wise to use ImageIcon to load images.[15:34:40] * ricky_clarkson invokes roots-.[15:34:40] *** IMTheNachoMan has joined ##java[15:34:47] <IMTheNachoMan> hi all[15:36:06] *** sanj has quit IRC[15:38:07] <IMTheNachoMan> who wnats to call me so i can wake up for this job interview thingy[15:38:39] <ricky_clarkson> You're a cunt![15:38:43] <ricky_clarkson> Slapper![15:38:47] <ricky_clarkson> Oh, wrong kind.[15:39:42] *** themoves has left ##java[15:40:06] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: i told him 2 times already[15:40:23] <ricky_clarkson> nater: Are you ignoring roots-?[15:40:29] <IMTheNachoMan> im a cunt?[15:40:34] <roots-> my argument was that ImageIcon uses a mediatracker intenally[15:40:36] <roots-> internally[15:40:37] <ricky_clarkson> IMTheNachoMan: You asked me to call you.[15:40:45] <nater> ricky_clarkson: trying to avoid using swing[15:40:49] <ricky_clarkson> nater: Why?[15:40:53] <IMTheNachoMan> haha, not names[15:41:04] <IMTheNachoMan> ricky_clarkson i meant on my cell, but iwas a joke[15:41:09] <roots-> ImageIcon doesnt have that many dependencies[15:41:12] <roots-> its a valid point though[15:41:15] <IMTheNachoMan> im goin back to bed so i can wake up for the interview i suppose[15:41:16] <IMTheNachoMan> peace[15:41:16] <roots-> i will help[15:42:09] <roots-> nater: it doesnt compile[15:42:12] <nater> roots-: what did you say earlier? i thought you just pointed me to a page about null pointer exceptions[15:42:16] <roots-> you need to read about try/catch[15:42:41] <roots-> also it is waitForID[15:43:10] <nater> that's the typo i was alluding to[15:43:17] <nater> it compiles on here, java version 1.5.0_01[15:44:08] *** Garibaldi has quit IRC[15:45:45] *** Chmmr has joined ##java[15:47:39] <Chmmr> Hi[15:47:41] <Chmmr> I have JCheckBox and JCheckBoxMenuItem. What is the simplest way to synchronize them (making they show identical state)?[15:50:57] <hzsp> I love the way eclipse uses the workspace root as the default working directory when launching apps[15:51:06] <hzsp> why not the directory containing the classes? muh.[15:51:48] <ricky_clarkson> hzsp: You can set that.[15:51:58] <hzsp> I know I can[15:52:23] <hzsp> I guess the reason it isn't the default is because there can be multiple output directories[15:52:59] *** lilgg has joined ##java[15:53:52] <roots-> hzsp: use an Action[15:53:56] <lilgg> hello? i want to make a jbutton and make that button "run" a program. what is the command to "run"/open theprogram?[15:54:04] <roots-> it is not only the simplest but also the intended and only reasonable way[15:54:17] <ricky_clarkson> lilgg: Run an external program?[15:54:18] <hzsp> roots-: an Action? what sort of action?[15:54:31] <roots-> javax.swing.Action[15:54:37] <lilgg> ricky_clarkson yeah[15:54:39] <hzsp> I'm not coding swing :P[15:54:47] *** diro has joined ##java[15:55:08] <Chmmr> I guess, it was message for me :)[15:55:16] <hzsp> oh, heh[15:55:24] <hzsp> Chmmr: use an Action :)[15:56:34] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell lilgg about runtime.exec[15:56:34] <javabot> lilgg, runtime.exec is A way of running external processes from java, or see http://javafaq.mine.nu/lookup?110[15:56:42] <Chmmr> Or, maybe, set same ButtonModel instance both for check box and menu item?[15:58:08] <lilgg> ok thx ricky_clarkson. im gonna try it now:)[15:58:13] <ricky_clarkson> hzsp: Again, what's wrong with Swing?[15:58:33] <Epesh> ricky_clarkson: it's slow![15:58:36] <hzsp> ricky_clarkson: what?[15:58:36] <Epesh> It's not java![15:58:42] <Epesh> It's hard to uuuuuuuse![15:58:43] <hzsp> arg, stop confusing me[15:58:45] <ricky_clarkson> hzsp: Why not use Swing?[15:59:27] <hzsp> um, because I'm writing TestCases?[15:59:38] <Epesh> swing can use test cases too[15:59:44] <Drone> That URL gave the following error: java.net.ConnectException, Connection timed out[16:00:46] <Epesh> Drone: which url?! :)[16:01:56] <pr3d4t0r> Good morning, Humanz.[16:03:07] <ricky_clarkson> Epesh: javafaq thingy.[16:03:13] <Epesh> I know[16:03:26] <Epesh> drone always amuses me[16:03:32] <ricky_clarkson> Yeah.[16:03:50] <ricky_clarkson> Bevin Drones [sic] on about how good and flexible RIFE is, but takes 3 months to change anything.[16:04:04] <Epesh> it doesn't, though[16:04:14] <ricky_clarkson> it doesn't?[16:04:20] <ricky_clarkson> What doesn't what?[16:04:41] <Epesh> rife doesn't take 3 months to change[16:04:45] <BULLE> pr3d4t0r: god morgon[16:04:45] <Epesh> rife's actually pretty good[16:05:39] *** littlezoper has joined ##java[16:05:42] <lilgg> ricky_clarkson i think what u told me isnt what i asked for..i want to make a jbutton and when i click on it to run a program..[16:06:31] *** conan has joined ##java[16:07:03] <lilgg> oh.. thats it..but how am i goin to make the button run the programa?[16:07:06] <lilgg> program*[16:08:46] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell lilgg about aolbonics[16:08:47] <javabot> lilgg, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201[16:08:52] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell lilgg about u[16:08:53] <javabot> lilgg, u is Dutch for "you" or an aolbonic meaning "I am stupid".[16:10:14] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell lilgg about actions[16:10:14] <javabot> lilgg, I have no idea what actions is.[16:10:17] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell lilgg about action[16:10:17] <javabot> lilgg, I have no idea what action is.[16:10:24] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell lilgg about javadoc ActionListener[16:10:24] <javabot> lilgg, please see java.awt.event.ActionListener: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/awt/event/ActionListener.html[16:10:27] <ricky_clarkson> Phew.[16:10:30] <lilgg> instead of that bullshit can you tell me about java and jbutton run program?:P[16:10:38] <ricky_clarkson> lilgg: Can you go and read?[16:10:58] <lilgg> thats what im doin now..[16:11:04] <ricky_clarkson> So what's wrong?[16:11:09] *** bogonflux has quit IRC[16:11:17] *** Ferret has joined ##java[16:11:46] <ricky_clarkson> An ActionListener lets you respond to clicks on JButtons and Runtime.exec lets you run non-Java programs. You just have to tie the two together.[16:11:53] <Ferret> Hi, if I call Integer.valueOf(42) then call it again, am I allowed to depend on the Objoct returned each time being the same?[16:11:57] <lilgg> instead of you tryig to help me with java your just making a big fuss of the way i wrote you..[16:12:15] <ricky_clarkson> lilgg: Note that that wasn't me.[16:12:22] *** sanj has joined ##java[16:12:44] <Ferret> It says in the spec that it should be called for optimisation reasons because it doesn't necessarily call new Integer(), but is there any guarantees that it pools Integer objects?[16:12:49] <pr3d4t0r> lilgg: If you don't like it, feel free to leave.[16:12:55] <lilgg> ricky_clarkson sorry:)[16:13:08] <pr3d4t0r> lilgg: Since we aren't paid to help you, we don't have to put up with your screwy spelling.[16:13:10] <ricky_clarkson> Ferret: I wouldn't say that that is guaranteed, but it's likely.[16:13:19] <roots-> Ferret: no guarantees unless specified in the javadocs[16:13:22] <Ferret> Mmm, OK, that's not good enough. x.x[16:13:26] <roots-> there isnt any[16:13:30] <lilgg> pr3d4t0r its not my problem that the only thing you know is how to correct the way people type:)[16:13:31] <roots-> you could do that yourself[16:13:33] <ricky_clarkson> lilgg: pr3d4t0r just doesn't want ##java to descend to SMS speak.[16:13:40] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r[16:13:41] <lilgg> ricky_clarkson i got it[16:13:43] <roots-> probably even with LRU behavior rather than pooling 0..20[16:13:45] <lilgg> pr3d4t0r ban me..[16:13:48] *** pr3d4t0r sets mode: +b *!*n=jap@*.vivodi.gr[16:13:48] *** lilgg was kicked by pr3d4t0r (pr3d4t0r)[16:13:50] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r[16:13:58] <roots-> little short lived objects are handled nicely though by the jvm[16:14:02] <littlezoper> as you wish![16:14:02] <roots-> probably better not to pool at all[16:14:31] <Ferret> I'll explain my problem, it's very simple...[16:14:42] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: la ban es para cuantos horas?[16:14:55] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Until I remember to unban that IP address.[16:14:57] <ricky_clarkson> Mm, Spanglish.[16:15:12] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Ban == prohibición.[16:15:23] <solus> hora = feminine[16:15:39] <Ferret> I'm just making a Set using HashSet<Integer> with a wrapper so that I can use int instead of Integer. My problem occurs when I make: remove(int i) { hashset.remove(Integer.valueOf(i)); }[16:15:46] * BULLE just loaded profiler output into the profiler app and bushed the "find memory leaks" button[16:16:30][16:16:37] <ricky_clarkson> mejor?[16:16:44] <ricky_clarkson> s/oi/ohi/[16:16:44] <Ferret> I KNOW that HashSet uses HashMap therefore checks a.equals(b) / a.hashcode()==b.hashcode() rather than a==b, but that's not guranteed for all jvms either :/[16:17:06] <roots-> Ferret: if you were using c# and had a hashmap<int> it would create code for that special case[16:17:13] <ricky_clarkson> Ferret: I think that checking equals and hashcode is possible for any Set.[16:17:14] <pr3d4t0r> Sí.[16:17:15] <roots-> totally circumventing heap managed objects[16:17:20] <Ferret> So... not sure how I can possibly make a Set of Integers and have a remove(int) function[16:17:31] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Hasta que yo recuerde terminar su /prohibición.[16:17:35] <roots-> equals on collections is confusing[16:17:40] <roots-> and error prone[16:17:45] * Ferret nods.[16:17:48] <roots-> new HashSet().equals(new ArrayList())[16:17:52] <roots-> what is your guess ?[16:17:54] <ricky_clarkson> false[16:18:08] <pr3d4t0r> solus: Are you a native Spanish speaker? If so, help :) I don't know if there's a better word to use instead of "prohibición".[16:18:17] <pr3d4t0r> solus: Or rather, I don't remember.[16:18:26] <Ferret> You could .equals on their .toIterators()[16:18:31] <solus> pr3d4t0r: nope, sorry[16:18:35] <Ferret> Tht should be true, but probably won't be[16:18:37] <pr3d4t0r> solus: :)[16:18:42] <solus> but I'm pretty sure there is one[16:18:48] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: corrcet[16:18:57] <roots-> new LinkedList().equals(new ArrayList()) ?[16:19:00] <pr3d4t0r> solus: I'm a native speaker but once in a while I have a mental blackout and forget synonims :([16:19:06] <pr3d4t0r> solus: Peace -- thanks.[16:19:09] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r[16:19:15] <dmlloyd|work> ricky_clarkson: what you want is the visitor pattern (a.k.a. multiple dispatch)[16:19:17] <solus> pr3d4t0r: I'm not even good at spanish anymore[16:19:21] <solus> huh?[16:19:33] * Ferret thinks he might have to implement his set properly rather than as a wrapper[16:19:37] <Ferret> :/[16:19:42] *** pr3d4t0r sets mode: -b *!*~*n=jap@*.vivodi.gr[16:19:42] <dmlloyd|work> this pattern allows you to take a different action based on the type of the argument, without using instanceof or other cascading-if checks[16:19:43] <Epesh> haha[16:19:45] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r[16:20:04] <pr3d4t0r> solus: Oh, dude... you aren't a target.[16:20:21] <pr3d4t0r> solus: I was lifting the ban on that address, sorry :)[16:20:38] <ricky_clarkson> dmlloyd|work: I don't want that, I want a Collection<SubInterface>.[16:20:57] *** omry|work has joined ##java[16:21:03] <pr3d4t0r> omry|work![16:21:07] <dmlloyd|work> given Collection<ParentInterface?>[16:21:12] <ricky_clarkson> dmlloyd|work: Yep.[16:21:20] <omry|work> pr3d4t0r![16:21:23] <solus> pr3d4t0r: excomunión might be better[16:21:29] <roots-> ok hardware maintenance[16:21:30] <roots-> bbl[16:21:32] <pr3d4t0r> solus: Hrm...[16:21:35] <dmlloyd|work> ah, well the best you can do there is a wrapper, or an unsafe cast, thanks to erasure.[16:21:47] <ricky_clarkson> Wrapper?[16:21:58] <solus> pr3d4t0r: i dont really know, i just looked it up[16:22:01] <pr3d4t0r> solus: Excomunión sería excommunicate. Religious use only, as far as I know.[16:22:08] <dmlloyd|work> yeah, make a Collection<SubInterface> that delegates to the original Collection<ParentInterface> with some type-checking[16:22:09] <ricky_clarkson> I know what a wrapper is, just don't know how to apply one here.[16:22:11] <pr3d4t0r> solus: Je, je, je... Babelfish?[16:22:22] <solus> no[16:22:34] <ricky_clarkson> dmlloyd|work: That seems like a bad option.[16:22:36] <BULLE> nice, my profiler told me i have a memory leak i HashMap and HashSet[16:22:47] <pr3d4t0r> solus: Anyway...[16:22:50] * pr3d4t0r left.[16:22:55] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: Watch the channel.[16:22:55] * javabot watches the channel for trolls and will call an op if you guys misbehave.[16:23:05] <BULLE> uhoh[16:24:09] <omry|work> ah, anyone know how I tell ORB (sun's) what is the host and port of the CORBA server??[16:24:10] *** Erica has joined ##java[16:24:21] <Erica> Hi-pee birthday![16:24:27] <omry|work> hi Erica[16:24:33] <Erica> hi omry|work!!![16:24:36] <nater> morning erica[16:24:37] <BULLE> omry|work: dont you use the orbd registry thingy for that ?[16:24:41] <Erica> hi nater![16:24:53] <BULLE> omry|work: eg, you ask for the adress, from the registry, and it provides you with it[16:25:05] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: Happy Birthday![16:25:10] <Erica> omry|work do you know how to make bitmap fonts for cell phones?[16:25:15] <BULLE> pr3d4t0r: what about me ?[16:25:19] <Erica> pr3d4t0r not my birthday :)[16:25:22] <BULLE> but it is mine![16:25:23] <pr3d4t0r> BULLE: Happy Birthday![16:25:25] <BULLE> thanks =)[16:25:31] <Erica> BULLE happy birthday![16:25:34] <pr3d4t0r> ~do BULLE[16:25:34] * javabot does BULLE[16:25:37] <nater> i figured she was doing it as a frosty the snowman type thing[16:25:43] <BULLE> Erica: thanks[16:25:44] <Erica> nater yes[16:26:03] <nater> wow, we're both dorks then[16:26:09] <nater> ;-p[16:26:10] <omry|work> Erica, happy birthday. Erica, why, you load font glyph images, and paint them.. unless there is some easy way I am not aware of.[16:26:13] <Erica> being a dork is nice[16:26:27] <Erica> omry|work how do I make them?[16:26:27] <omry|work> BULLE, that orbd is a service that needs to be running?[16:26:43] <nater> erica: ms paint[16:26:47] <BULLE> omry|work: yes[16:26:58] <BULLE> omry|work: comes with the jdk[16:27:06] <nater> or paint them on the screen[16:27:10] <BULLE> omry|work: i guess you can serialize the server endpoint aswell, and have the client read it, as a file if you want that[16:27:30] <BULLE> omry|work: there is some way of doing that, but its not something i remember how to do, i have just seen it in the past[16:27:40] *** rox has quit IRC[16:27:44] <Erica> i can't paint well[16:27:49] <Erica> there has to be a better way[16:27:52] <omry|work> Erica, you can grab them from an existing fonts (screen shot)[16:28:04] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: The fonts are manufacturer-dependent.[16:28:08] <nater> i still can't get this to load my image... google still insists on giving me noise[16:28:18] <Erica> omry|work then i have to cut them out[16:28:33] <Erica> way too much trouble to figure out the kerning etc... of the fonts[16:28:39] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: The Java specs say not much more than it has to support serif, non-serif, and monospaced fonts.[16:28:47] <omry|work> BULLE, what do you mean, serialize the endpoint?[16:29:12] <Erica> pr3d4t0r that's why i want bitmap fonts[16:29:14] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: If you don't have to do a lot of text in the font you want, have you considered doing the messaging in PNG graphics?[16:29:18] *** sanj has quit IRC[16:29:19] <Erica> so I can support different langs[16:29:23] *** mindCrime has joined ##java[16:29:24] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: Ah.[16:29:31] <Erica> asian[16:29:34] <Erica> eastern[16:29:39] <BULLE> omry|work: write it down to disk, as some sort of file, i dont remember the format[16:29:41] <Erica> french[16:29:44] <Erica> etc...[16:29:56] <BULLE> omry|work: its a bit like an url, but for corba connectios[16:30:05] <Erica> asian mainly because asia is where the money is[16:30:10] <Erica> to be made for cell phones[16:30:11] <omry|work> BULLE, yeah, something like iioop://host:port[16:30:16] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: If you check with the manufacturers, you may have an option to do that.[16:30:27] <omry|work> BULLE, but how do I give it to the damn ORB on the client?[16:30:28] <Erica> pr3d4t0r did already and they don't[16:30:36] <Erica> pr3d4t0r a few do though[16:30:42] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: :([16:30:55] <Erica> java on cell phones is still in the sucky stage[16:31:44] <dmlloyd|work> usa is still the #1 technology market afaik[16:31:51] <Erica> i'll be glad when cell phones can run a fully functional jvm[16:31:54] <omry|work> Erica, of you don't like to cut the image, maybe you can write a C program that will generates the png images from the font you want to use.[16:32:24] <omry|work> Erica, I bet you can find something like that online.[16:32:26] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: The manufacturers don't want it.[16:32:42] <BULLE> omry|work: yes, thats the problem with using the serialized way[16:32:48] <BULLE> omry|work: you realy should use the ordbd imho[16:32:49] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: That'd dilute their value added on the phones.[16:32:51] <Erica> omry|work nah, that would mean i have to generate the fonts and I don't know how to[16:33:23] <Erica> pr3d4t0r it's coming though as phones get more memory and better cpus[16:33:27] <BULLE> omry|work: lets see if i can dig up some old code and put it in pastebin[16:33:47] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: Yeah, but a lot of it is politics.[16:34:23] *** ph8 has quit IRC[16:34:53] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: Take things like Bluetooth support. The phones can do it fine, the Java API is there, etc. but uniform support sucks because manufacturers don't want to miss the boat to sell their own wares and don't want to be upstaged by a Java app.[16:35:28] <omry|work> BULLE, that would be cool.[16:35:28] <Erica> pr3d4t0r java is becoming the defacto standard for programming cell phones though.[16:35:55] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: Not from where I'm looking at it -- and I had to put up with a lot of mobile manufacturers this year.[16:36:12] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: As soon as you start talking real money, the manufacturers and the carriers get all nervous.[16:36:14] <Erica> really[16:36:25] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: Really :([16:36:28] <Erica> :([16:36:31] <omry|work> Erica, you can even generate the fonts from a java program. set the correct font to the graphics. and paint each character on an offscreen image, than save it to the disk.[16:37:16] <Erica> omry|work true that is a good idea, but can I get the program to generate asian fonts too?[16:37:18] *** mohadib_ has quit IRC[16:37:47] <omry|work> Erica, but as I said, I am sure you can find something that dumps a font to image files. about asian, I guess so - if you have the fonts installed.[16:38:02] <Erica> I see.[16:38:05] <Erica> hmmm[16:38:22] <omry|work> Erica, run a short google session. :)[16:38:39] <pr3d4t0r> omry|work: That's what I was thinking ;) with full messages, not individual characters... but your idea is better.[16:38:58] <BULLE> omry|work: http://pastebin.com/407799[16:39:07] <BULLE> omry|work: that is just parts of the server and client[16:39:27] <BULLE> omry|work: its a very simple setup, but it basicly shows how to "register" the methods on the server, and how to get hold of them on the client[16:39:33] <BULLE> omry|work: that piece of code requires a running orbd[16:39:44] <jwormy> good morning erica[16:39:46] <jwormy> my sweet.[16:39:46] <BULLE> omry|work: on port 1050 i think, just check the code[16:39:57] <Erica> morning jwormy[16:40:00] <BULLE> jwormy: its me you should be nice to[16:40:17] <dmlloyd|work> well, I hate you all equally. See how fair I am?[16:40:25] <diro> =)[16:40:27] <jwormy> BULLE, let me guess.. your a minority in this room and you demand attention?[16:40:27] <omry|work> BULLE, thanks. it looks like RMI code no? I am trying to use ORB (java.CORBA or something), not RMI[16:41:01] <BULLE> omry|work: ehm[16:41:03] <BULLE> omry|work: that is corba[16:41:06] <Erica> jwormy which do you like better c# or java?[16:41:14] <BULLE> jwormy: YES![16:41:22] <BULLE> jwormy: i belog to the "its my birthday today" minoroty[16:41:28] <BULLE> belong, minority[16:41:43] *** roots- has quit IRC[16:41:50] <Erica> it's BULLE's birthday![16:41:57] <Erica> and he'll cry if he wants to![16:42:09] <dmlloyd|work> there's like a 1-in-30 chance that two people in a room of like 25 have the same birthday[16:42:12] <dmlloyd|work> or something[16:42:12] *** kaylee_ has joined ##java[16:42:15] <dmlloyd|work> much better odds than you'd think[16:42:17] <BULLE> omry|work: im using jndi for geting hold of the server[16:42:30] *** Gavrila has joined ##java[16:42:36] <dmlloyd|work> I bet someone else here has a birthday of 6/22[16:42:38] <dmlloyd|work> am I right?[16:42:45] <BULLE> omry|work: jndi can be used for many different types of "services" dns etc, or in this case "cosnaming" that is one way of getting hold of the other end in corba[16:42:52] <jwormy> BULLE, happy birthday![16:42:56] <BULLE> jwormy: thanks =)[16:42:57] <nater> bizarre... my code compiles on my laptop but not the windows machine[16:43:07] <jwormy> BULLE, now get back to work.[16:43:09] <nater> and it's not even close on the windows machine[16:43:10] <jwormy> BULLE, how old?[16:43:12] <BULLE> jwormy: aye sir![16:43:13] *** Chmmr has quit IRC[16:43:16] <BULLE> jwormy: to old :([16:43:20] <Erica> omry|work i am thinking about writing my own xml parser it will save me 14kb of ram[16:43:33] *** stork has quit IRC[16:43:34] <omry|work> BULLE, thanks, I`ll look into it.[16:44:04] <omry|work> Erica, there is some open source xml parser which is pretty light.. I don't quite remember its name.[16:44:06] *** Stork has joined ##java[16:44:11] <omry|work> (for j2me)[16:44:13] <Erica> kxml[16:44:16] <omry|work> yeah.[16:44:17] <omry|work> I think[16:44:26] <Erica> i have that, it's 22kb[16:44:37] *** Garibaldi has joined ##java[16:44:37] <omry|work> compiled classes, you mean?[16:44:41] <Erica> i'm trying to reduce the size of my midlet,[16:44:46] <Erica> yes, compiled it's 22kb[16:44:48] *** Garibaldi has left ##java[16:44:50] <BULLE> he, i misread as midget[16:44:51] *** Garibaldi has joined ##Java[16:44:52] <omry|work> Erica, and you obfuscated of course.[16:45:01] <Erica> omry|work yes[16:45:12] <ricky_clarkson> BULLE: Nice.[16:45:13] <omry|work> BULLE, midlet, midget... its all the same.[16:45:33] <Erica> my midlet is 273kb :([16:46:12] <ricky_clarkson> My midget is 4'.[16:46:29] <Erica> i need to reduce some of the java classes[16:46:40] <omry|work> Erica, that sucks. hate this crap.[16:46:49] <omry|work> you take a good midlet, and mess it up.[16:47:07] <Erica> omry|work what do you mean?[16:47:49] <omry|work> Erica, I mean you change the code design for all the bad reasons in the world.[16:47:56] <Erica> true[16:48:21] <omry|work> to make it smaller for some Fuc*ed up phone. (probably Nokia :)[16:48:22] <Erica> in midlet world you can't be very oo[16:48:31] <Erica> omry|work nokia 6680[16:48:35] <ricky_clarkson> o_O[16:48:58] <Erica> Nokia makes the worst phones[16:49:05] <Erica> but they are the most popular[16:49:21] <BULLE> Erica: not here[16:49:30] <Erica> bulle what is popular there?[16:49:36] <BULLE> Erica: Sony Ericsson[16:49:47] <omry|work> BULLE, they are not perfect as well.[16:49:51] <ricky_clarkson> Patriots can make bad choices.[16:49:52] <BULLE> omry|work: of course not[16:49:53] <solus> BULLE: do you have stats on that?[16:49:54] <omry|work> but better than nokia.[16:49:58] <BULLE> solus: ye[16:50:05] <ricky_clarkson> Nokia has great UI.[16:50:10] *** follower has joined ##java[16:50:12] <BULLE> solus: based on monthly sales numbers, from the major retailers[16:50:20] <omry|work> ricky_clarkson, clearly you never used 6600. :)[16:50:30] * solus has a sony ericsson[16:50:36] <Erica> the nokia java ui api is deprecated though[16:50:46] <solus> mainly because my brother thought it was too old and sold it to me cheaply[16:51:16] <Erica> nokia sugguest not using their java ui api anymore[16:51:58] <Erica> I usually write my own ui stuff anyways via Canvas[16:52:03] <BULLE> its pretty sad that there is no easy way to write apps that actualy interface neatly with the phone in java[16:52:11] <BULLE> eg, not just games or similar, but like small modifications to the ui, etc[16:52:36] <Erica> BULLE java sandbox is a hinderance[16:52:52] <BULLE> Erica: ye, and lack of unified api aswell i guess[16:52:58] <ricky_clarkson> omry|work: Mine's a 3300.[16:53:08] <Erica> bulle that'll never happen[16:53:16] <BULLE> Erica: guess one will have to stick to symbian then, but then the market is even less uniform then with java[16:53:39] <Erica> BULLE i guess[16:53:50] <Erica> i'm developing for motorola and nokia now[16:53:58] <BULLE> what happened with that java operating system for mobile phones ?[16:54:07] <BULLE> Erica: no symbian stuff ?[16:54:20] <omry|work> BULLE, I think orbd is not what I need. I already have an orb server running.[16:54:29] <Erica> BULLE i have no idea[16:55:14] <omry|work> BULLE, what is orbd supposed to be? ORB server, or ORB server directory?[16:55:19] <BULLE> omry|work: if you have an "orb" server, then you are most likely correct in thatyou do not need to run orbd, as the "server" will aready be doing it[16:55:29] <BULLE> omry|work: its a directory service[16:55:55] <BULLE> omry|work: i think the corba name for it is "cosnaming" service[16:55:58] <BULLE> or something like that[16:56:16] <omry|work> BULLE, CORBA got very confusing names for its stuff.[16:57:23] <omry|work> BULLE, my server listens on port 951, but when I try to use ORB (javax.corba) it tells me it can't connect to port 900. that's why I asked how I give it a different port to conenct to.[16:57:24] <BULLE> omry|work: oh yes[16:58:11] <BULLE> omry|work: check the first code in the server part, if checks if the naming server has been configured, if not, it configures it[16:58:20] <BULLE> omry|work: you specify a hostname and port there[16:58:27] <BULLE> omry|work: the client does it in a similar way[16:58:32] <paulweb515> omry|work: The vanilla java ORBs usually respond to ORBInitialPort 2000 -ORBInitialHost myhost[16:58:42] *** Amnesiac has joined ##java[16:58:44] <omry|work> BULLE, the server is in C++[16:58:53] <BULLE> omry|work: yes, but your client is in java right[16:58:59] <omry|work> BULLE, yes.[16:59:06] <BULLE> omry|work: and, as i said, from jndis perspective, it doesnt matter if it is used as a server or a client[16:59:13] <BULLE> omry|work: so, your client need to so, just as my java server[16:59:20] <BULLE> omry|work: it needs to set the naming service, for jndi[17:00:14] <omry|work> BULLE, got a howto for that?[17:00:49] <BULLE> omry|work: http://pastebin.com/407819[17:00:53] <BULLE> omry|work: that is my client code[17:01:13] <BULLE> omry|work: and no, not realy, the corba documentation on java.sun.com is completely outdated, very cryptic, or non existing imho[17:02:17] <BULLE> omry|work: if you set those properties you shold be able to have your jndi stff go for port 951[17:02:21] <omry|work> BULLE, think I found something in http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/corba/corba.html#anchor410781[17:04:01] <BULLE> omry|work: dunno, it seems to be pretty old stuff imho, and partly about visibroker, but if you find something that helps you, of course use it[17:04:25] <paulweb515> omry|work: http://www.javacoffeebreak.com/articles/javaidl/javaidl.html is also just enough to get it working ... it uses the OMG naming stuff instead of JNDI[17:04:45] <BULLE> paulweb515: uhm, JNDI uses the omg naming stuff though[17:05:53] <BULLE> paulweb515: and that code uses jndi clases atleast[17:05:54] <paulweb515> Sorry, I meant it uses the OMG naming stuff directly (looks more like the C++ version), then JNDI InitialContext() stuff (which uses OMG naming stuff under the hood?)[17:06:11] <paulweb515> s/then/than/g[17:06:15] <BULLE> paulweb515: jndi is just a generic api, you can use different types of naming services with it[17:06:46] <paulweb515> Yup (I mostly use it for LDAP), but it's one more level of indirection as well[17:07:00] <BULLE> paulweb515: oh, my wrong, it doesnt use jndi classes, but the java cosnaming classes it uses are identical to the jndi ones[17:07:10] <BULLE> from an api point of view[17:07:17] <omry|work> BULLE, paulweb515, thanks. I`ll have a look.[17:07:29] <paulweb515> BULLE: I'll buy that ...[17:08:19] <BULLE> omry|work: i would use jndi, as its less complex then not using it, but thats just me, the tutorial paulweb515 pasted seems to be nice, a bit old though, as it is for java 1.2 but still its icely writte[17:11:02] <omry|work> BULLE, since I am trying to interact with a C program, and all my code samples for it are C/C++, I think I`ll try to stay as close as possible to standard corba.[17:11:26] <BULLE> omry|work: it IS standard corba[17:11:33] <omry|work> BULLE, with the parameters that url I pasted earlier, I was able to tell orb to connect to the correct server.[17:12:12] <omry|work> BULLE, by standard I mean : as close as possible to the C examples.[17:12:12] *** hiko has joined ##java[17:12:16] <hiko> Hello, channel[17:12:21] <ricky_clarkson> Hello, user.[17:12:23] <hiko> I will ask a question..[17:12:24] *** diro has quit IRC[17:12:32] *** roots- has joined ##java[17:12:33] <BULLE> omry|work: i see[17:12:36] <hiko> I want design new website, with html, php[17:12:43] <hiko> I need java games[17:12:45] <BULLE> omry|work: i guess im silly, but i dont want to give myself more trouble then i want to[17:12:54] <BULLE> roots-: hoi[17:13:01] <roots-> hoi BULLE[17:13:02] <hiko> example: billard, okey, swamp[17:13:11] <roots-> excuse the ikea stuff from earlier on[17:13:12] <Kallistor> hike: google[17:13:14] <hiko> how can I buy java games,[17:13:23] <ricky_clarkson> hiko: Use Flash.[17:13:37] <BULLE> omry|work: corba in java have changed quite a lot, since 1.2 and 1.3 its all POA and BOA nowadays and so on[17:13:45] <hiko> ricky_clarkson, I need games flash or java, i will design website and coding php[17:13:53] <hiko> how can I design that website[17:13:56] <roots-> corba--[17:14:00] <hiko> how can i find that games,[17:14:12] <ricky_clarkson> hiko: Your website design is not a Java question.[17:14:12] <hiko> i'm from turkey, but turkey hasnt got people to coding java games[17:14:14] <BULLE> roots-: yes, its just very painfull[17:14:24] <roots-> its bizarre unproductive[17:14:27] <roots-> utterly useless[17:14:34] <BULLE> roots-: thats why i realy tries to use all the nice glue sun have provided, to hide all the ugg-lee ness, if i need to use corba[17:14:36] <hiko> ricky_clarkson, gamyun.net join thbat website[17:14:48] <hiko> i need make ready like that website[17:15:01] <ricky_clarkson> hiko: Great.[17:15:04] <BULLE> hiko: why do you need to make such a website ?[17:15:12] <hiko> backgammon, swamp, king[17:15:13] <hiko> etc.[17:15:19] <BULLE> hiko: why do you NEED to do it ?[17:15:20] <hiko> BULLE, My customer wants that..[17:15:23] <BULLE> ah yes[17:15:26] <BULLE> thought so[17:15:39] <BULLE> so, you want us to help you, do stuff for free, so you can get money from the customer[17:15:40] *** nater has quit IRC[17:15:44] <BULLE> hiko: time to hire someone to do the work then[17:15:59] <hiko> i will get money from customer,[17:16:01] <BULLE> you might find someone to hire here, i guess[17:16:07] <hiko> but I cant find to selling that games..[17:16:10] <omry|work> BULLE, POA? BOA?[17:16:14] *** hatOFF has joined ##java[17:16:25] <BULLE> omry|work: standard objects that is what you should be using with corba nowadays[17:16:37] <BULLE> omry|work: Portable Object Adapter and Bsomething Object Adapter[17:16:51] <hiko> BULLE, are you bot, are you very faster?[17:16:53] <BULLE> omry|work: but as roots said, its all VERY messy, and complicated, and nasty[17:16:57] <BULLE> hiko: oh yes,im a bot[17:17:30] <omry|work> BULLE, so what's the best shot, in your opinion?[17:17:34] <BULLE> omry|work: from a clients perspective, you most likely dont need to touch those objects at all, i would just use rmi over iiop on the client side i think, to hide all the nastyness[17:18:04] <BULLE> omry|work: but if you have code that works now, use that, no need to rewrite stuff[17:18:35] <omry|work> BULLE, I have code that connects to the server, tries to create an initial reference, and blows.[17:18:40] <omry|work> this is how far I got.[17:19:24] <BULLE> omry|work: well, if you read this url http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/idl/corba.html[17:19:24] *** lobz has quit IRC[17:19:38] <BULLE> omry|work: especialy the historical part, you will see how java and corba have evolved togheter, and what options exist[17:19:43] <hatOFF> i have changed from extend Thread to Implement Runnable and now it won't take in consideration my second connection, any suggestion?[17:19:52] *** Amnesiac has quit IRC[17:20:11] <ricky_clarkson> hatOFF: Be more specific on what it won't do.[17:20:52] <omry|work> BULLE, great.[17:20:57] <BULLE> omry|work: i think that document will allow you to choose the proper method to solve your problem[17:21:08] <dmiles_akf> hatOFF it still needs a thread to run in unblocked[17:21:09] <BULLE> as i dont relay know much about what it is you are trying to do[17:21:14] <BULLE> but now, im off[17:21:15] <hatOFF> while(true) { Socket socket = server.accept(); Client client = new Client(this, socket); writeActivity(client.getIP() + " connected."); client.run(); }[17:21:16] <BULLE> home to rott![17:21:21] * BULLE --ruttna &[17:21:22] <hatOFF> It does it just once[17:21:34] *** hadees has quit IRC[17:21:50] <ricky_clarkson> hatOFF: run is just a method, Runnable just an interface. Like dmiles_akf said you stil need a Thread to run it in.[17:21:54] <BULLE> hiko: so you need to make new thread and feed the new thread the runnable ?[17:22:00] <IMTheNachoMan> hatOFF new Client(this, socket).run() or something like that, there is an example in the tutorial[17:22:12] <IMTheNachoMan> hatOFF im assuming client impliments runable[17:22:22] <dmiles_akf> client.run() probly just runs but is cooperating to let the loop keep going[17:22:28] <hatOFF> IMTheNachoMan, yes it does.[17:22:40] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell hatOFF about thread[17:22:41] <javabot> hatOFF, thread is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/essential/threads[17:23:23] <dmiles_akf> but is cooperating / but isnt cooperating becasue the method never returns until that client is done[17:24:53] *** kopke has joined ##java[17:24:59] *** OMFG_ has joined ##java[17:25:12] <kopke> Hi all, I want to center-align text on a JTextArea,( I need to have a multi-line with autowrapping so no JTextField :/), and I don't suceed, I try creating a Document (PlainDocument), but I neither succeed to center it[17:25:14] <hatOFF> oh[17:25:17] <kopke> Some one has a solution?[17:25:28] <hatOFF> Exception in thread "Thread-0" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space[17:25:33] <hatOFF> Why am I getting this?[17:25:39] <dmlloyd|work> because you're out of heap space[17:25:54] <hatOFF> ~tell me about heap space[17:25:55] <javabot> hatOFF, I guess the factoid 'javaspaces' might be appropriate:[17:25:57] <javabot> hatOFF, javaspaces is distributed shared memory, where java objects are entries. See http://www.dancres.org/cottage/javaspaces.html[17:26:03] <hatOFF> ~tell me about heaps[17:26:04] <javabot> hatOFF, I have no idea what heaps is.[17:26:05] <hatOFF> ~tell me about heap[17:26:06] <javabot> hatOFF, I have no idea what heap is.[17:26:06] <OMFG_> I need some help :) If i got <form action="url" name="form1" method="post"> how can i send that in java?[17:26:11] <dmlloyd|work> heap space is the amount of memory you have for new objects[17:26:17] <IMTheNachoMan> ricky_clarkson am i also correct that in his example, if client just inherited from Thred and implimted a run method the server would just hvae to do new Client(...) and it will automatically call the run function?[17:26:17] <hatOFF> oh[17:26:18] <IMTheNachoMan> is this true[17:26:25] *** hadees has joined ##java[17:26:25] <dmlloyd|work> you adjust it through judicious use of -Xms and -Xmx[17:26:35] <dmlloyd|work> ~memory[17:26:35] *** Stork has quit IRC[17:26:36] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'outofmemoryerror' might be appropriate:[17:26:38] <javabot> dmlloyd|work, outofmemoryerror is Take a look at the java -X options to see whether your VM supports increasing the heap size, or try designing your system so that it doesn't keep references to old objects. Also, see http://archives.java.sun.com/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0405&L=jini-users&D=0&P=17761[17:26:52] <ricky_clarkson> IMTheNachoMan: And you need to call start().[17:27:03] <ricky_clarkson> ~jvm options[17:27:04] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, jvm options is http://blogs.sun.com/roller/resources/watt/jvm-options-list.html[17:27:14] *** Stork has joined ##java[17:27:17] <OMFG_> If i got <form action="url" name="form1" method="post"> how can i send that in java?[17:27:18] *** seon has joined ##java[17:27:20] <IMTheNachoMan> ricky_clarkson ah so new Client( .... ).start() aughta work[17:27:23] <seon> hello[17:27:44] <dmlloyd|work> hi\[17:27:58] <seon> i have a jsp pages like a header template and i want to use the include jsp inside a Servlet, is it possible?[17:29:00] <ricky_clarkson> IMTheNachoMan: Yes, but it's more flexible to implement Runnable than to extend Thread.[17:29:10] <ricky_clarkson> E.g., if you ever want thread pooling.[17:29:11] <IMTheNachoMan> ricky_clarkson yeah i was just curuios[17:29:18] <IMTheNachoMan> ricky_clarkson thread pooling?[17:29:22] <IMTheNachoMan> ~thread pooling[17:29:23] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'threads and swing' might be appropriate:[17:29:25] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, threads and swing is http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/articles/threads/threads1.html or http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/misc/threads.html[17:29:31] <IMTheNachoMan> ~pooling[17:29:31] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, I have no idea what pooling is.[17:30:00] <ricky_clarkson> There are other tools besides javabot.[17:30:30] <IMTheNachoMan> ricky_clarkson heh i know im tryin to google, figured you might just give a hint, i guess i guessed wrong[17:30:45] <ricky_clarkson> I gave a hint.[17:31:04] <IMTheNachoMan> listining[17:31:08] *** Baughn has quit IRC[17:31:17] <ricky_clarkson> Gave. Past tense.[17:31:20] <ricky_clarkson> Did give.[17:31:28] <IMTheNachoMan> oh i get it[17:31:30] <IMTheNachoMan> re-use em[17:31:37] <ricky_clarkson> Right.[17:31:38] <Stork> ~ricky_clarkson++[17:31:38] <javabot> ricky_clarkson has a karma level of 102, Stork[17:31:51] <IMTheNachoMan> i dont think il need that for my chat program[17:31:57] <IMTheNachoMan> well maybe i would...humm[17:31:59] <IMTheNachoMan> thx[17:32:13] <ricky_clarkson> You could use nio instead of threading.[17:32:15] <ricky_clarkson> ~nio[17:32:15] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, nio is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/nio/ and http://grexengine.com/sections/people/adam/nio/Converting_Tetris_from_io_to_NIO.html and http://gee.cs.oswego.edu/dl/cpjslides/nio.pdf[17:32:17] <ricky_clarkson> Or eio.[17:32:23] <seon> who knows Servlet?[17:32:26] <dmlloyd|work> yeah, threads are not for newbies for sure[17:32:32] <ricky_clarkson> seon: Servlet programmers.[17:32:34] <solus> ~eio[17:32:34] <javabot> solus, eio is Event Input/Output - see http://java.twistedmatrix.com/eio/[17:32:39] <dmlloyd|work> threads are not even for intermediates either[17:32:57] <seon> ricky_clarkson> are you a servlet programmer?[17:33:12] <ricky_clarkson> seon: No. Are you a fish?[17:33:23] <pr3d4t0r> Hello.[17:33:24] <solus> only the very wise are allowed to touch the threads[17:34:46] * ricky_clarkson weaves 'em.[17:35:06] <paulweb515> pr3d4t0r: Hello?[17:35:21] <ricky_clarkson> paulweb515: stupid questions?[17:35:41] *** cored has joined ##java[17:35:51] <IMTheNachoMan> ~eio[17:35:51] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, eio is Event Input/Output - see http://java.twistedmatrix.com/eio/[17:35:58] <Stork> how come my beep() doesn't work ;([17:36:12] <paulweb515> ricky_clarkson: No, I was just saying hello ... or are you talking about the Fish? :-)[17:36:13] <roots-> what beep ?[17:36:16] <roots-> on toolkit ?[17:36:38] <Stork> yes[17:36:52] <roots-> well, its os dependend as hell[17:36:54] <ricky_clarkson> How do you know about the Fish?[17:37:02] <ricky_clarkson> paulweb515: We'll have to shoot you now.[17:37:03] <Stork> fair enough[17:37:21] *** eidolon has joined ##java[17:37:25] <seon> who knows how to use a jsp page inside a servlet?[17:37:32] <paulweb515> Doh ... I knew I should have watched Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy![17:37:39] <solus> inside?[17:37:44] <IMTheNachoMan> question, i was just planning on using server sockets and doin the network communication my self, any real benifit to using NIO or EIO ?[17:37:45] <eidolon> a jsp page is a servlet.[17:37:50] <paulweb515> s/should/shouldn't/g[17:37:56] <eidolon> (mornin :)[17:38:27] <ricky_clarkson> Yes, definitely stupid questions day.[17:38:35] *** mohadib has joined ##java[17:38:53] *** teralaser has quit IRC[17:38:57] *** stefan has quit IRC[17:39:01] <eidolon> ricky_clarkson: as opposed to any other day on #########java?[17:39:09] *** kopke has quit IRC[17:39:16] <seon> i have a header which i want to use in all my pages and i want to put it inside my servlet but out.println("include file=mapage.jsp") is not good[17:39:26] <eidolon> *twitch*[17:39:39] <eidolon> seon,k you need to go back to servlet / jsp school.[17:40:10] <mohadib> good morning[17:40:23] <eidolon> a jsp is a way of writing a servlet. the servlet container (tomcat presumably) converts the jsp into servlet code, compiles it, and runs it. you're trying to put a command in long after the pre-processor has done its work.[17:40:37] <IMTheNachoMan> ~nio[17:40:38] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, nio is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/nio/ and http://grexengine.com/sections/people/adam/nio/Converting_Tetris_from_io_to_NIO.html and http://gee.cs.oswego.edu/dl/cpjslides/nio.pdf[17:40:58] <IMTheNachoMan> hurmph[17:41:03] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: are you going to use nio for your chat client?[17:41:30] <IMTheNachoMan> well i cant use eio, its a thrid party library[17:41:38] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib dont knwo what it is yet completely, thats what im trying to figure out[17:41:39] * eidolon w00tz![17:41:39] <ricky_clarkson> ~wiki NotInventedHere[17:41:40] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, wiki NotInventedHere is http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?NotInventedHere[17:41:45] * eidolon violates the EJB spec![17:41:47] <seon> eidolon> but imagine a jsp with a form action=Login , Login is a servlet for me, i want to write inside my Login servlet a line to put a jsp include.[17:42:11] *** Mugatu has quit IRC[17:42:14] <Epesh> ewh[17:42:45] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib why you have a comment/advice on it?[17:42:56] <eidolon> seon: write a class into the servlet that opens the URL or the file and prints it out.[17:43:06] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: i have a nio example using IRC you are welcome to look at[17:43:09] * pr3d4t0r pets PHP.[17:43:14] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib that would be awesome[17:43:17] <mohadib> one sec[17:43:20] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib htx[17:43:32] <IMTheNachoMan> FYI: htx = thx in nacho language[17:43:57] * IMTheNachoMan wonders if anyone got that joke[17:44:11] <dmlloyd|work> thx = thanks in aolbonics[17:44:16] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: U R teh sux.[17:44:40] * eidolon shudders.[17:44:51] <seon> eidolon> how can i print it ou?[17:44:59] <dmlloyd|work> you know, soon *everyone* will be using aolbonics, and we'll be the fossils.[17:45:00] <IMTheNachoMan> dmlloyd|work well i didnt know that, i suppose il stop that too[17:45:00] <cored> lo pr3d4t0r[17:45:05] * eidolon weeps.[17:45:11] <pr3d4t0r> cored![17:45:15] <cored> pr3d4t0r: what's up[17:45:19] <cored> pr3d4t0r: no time for me ?[17:45:20] <pr3d4t0r> cored: Hangin'.[17:45:32] <pr3d4t0r> cored: Not to play Dr. Laura on you, no.[17:45:35] <cored> :-P[17:45:39] <cored> just kidding[17:45:42] <pr3d4t0r> cored: But it's time for me to pluck a flower off your garden.[17:45:48] <cored> i told ya you craete a monster already[17:45:53] * eidolon moves away from cored and p3d.[17:45:57] <cored> eidolon: :-P[17:46:03] *** Bevin has joined ##java[17:46:05] <Bevin> hi[17:46:07] <pr3d4t0r> cored: What word would you use in Spanish to say "ban cored"?[17:46:16] <pr3d4t0r> cored: For "ban"[17:46:19] <cored> ban[17:46:27] <cored> well we use ban too[17:46:51] <pr3d4t0r> cored: Spanglish... I see...[17:47:01] * pr3d4t0r will wait for Amnesiac to help with this one.[17:47:22] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: here are the important methods http://pastebin.com/407878[17:47:34] <mohadib> the whole source is available if you want it[17:47:42] <ricky_clarkson> How about the Spanish for 'remove'.[17:48:07] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib this aughta work[17:48:28] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib i just need to see if its important enough for me to learn and use in my chat client, or simple server sockets and what not will be enough[17:48:52] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: its pretty easy , i prefer NIO to using a bunch of threads[17:48:55] <IMTheNachoMan> im assuming that if i currently write my server/client using server sockets and wht not, and lter i upgrade the server to use NIO the client doesnt have to be updated, correct?[17:49:02] <mohadib> some people think NIO is harder , i disagree[17:49:05] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib NIO good with GUI stuff?[17:49:15] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib harder wont discourage me, waste of time will[17:49:23] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: its the same[17:49:27] <ricky_clarkson> Right.[17:49:28] *** pchapman has joined ##java[17:49:31] *** dingo001 has joined ##java[17:49:34] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib whats the same?[17:49:34] <dingo001> hey all[17:49:38] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib harder and waste of time?[17:50:01] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: im saying writing a GUI for a NIO app is no differient than writing a GUI for anyohter app[17:50:09] <cored> ricky_clarkson: remover[17:50:10] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: i think NIO is cleaner[17:50:22] *** FreemaniaX has joined ##java[17:50:28] <IMTheNachoMan> oh[17:50:30] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: less worries with race conditions and concurrent modification exceotions etc[17:50:39] <IMTheNachoMan> humm[17:50:44] <dingo001> about hsqldb, using hibernate, I am writing to the db and in the same time, i see that data has been written to the app, but when i try to view the data throgh the dbmanager, i see nothing, that says, everything is in memory and is discarded when the jvm exits, how can i stop doing that?[17:50:54] <IMTheNachoMan> it looks as though im gonna have a tid bit of reading to do tonight[17:51:00] <IMTheNachoMan> thx[17:51:03] <mohadib> np[17:51:05] <IMTheNachoMan> oops, sorry i mean Thank You[17:52:06] <IMTheNachoMan> 1.4 have nio?[17:52:14] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Yes.[17:52:19] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: RTFM.[17:52:42] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Dude, I was looking at the earlier logs from this channel, when you started showing up about a year ago.[17:52:49] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: What happened to you in the interim?[17:52:54] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Any hard bangs to the head?[17:52:57] <eidolon> dingo001: first, #hibernate is a good palce to start. second, do you have lazy writes turned on?[17:53:04] <eidolon> also, are you flush()ing and close()ing your session each time?[17:53:31] *** Cow_woC has joined ##java[17:53:36] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r heh no[17:54:06] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r and i wasnt meaning to ask if its in 1.4 i meant mostly is it any different, still better then using plain ole server sockets and what not[17:54:09] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Were you abducted by weirdos from another planet then? I mean, you used to make a lot more sense, be less argumentative, and overall not even use aolbonics.[17:54:42] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r yeah, well for the aolbonics thing, you told me once, LONG time ago too, but i didnt come for a while so i forgot[17:54:47] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r but i still find it hard to believe[17:55:08] <pr3d4t0r> Anyway, time to get back to work.[17:56:24] <ricky_clarkson> Blasphemy.[17:56:31] <hadees> okay so I have two Date objects and i want to find all the dates inbetween them, anyone know the best way to go about doing that?[17:56:35] *** Frankablu has quit IRC[17:56:41] <eidolon> a Date object is just a microtime() representation.[17:56:54] <eidolon> so you have the number of second between the 2 dates. ez :)[17:56:55] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell hadees about javadoc Calendar[17:56:56] <javabot> hadees, please see java.util.Calendar: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/Calendar.html[17:57:09] <eidolon> Calendar gave me hives last time i worked with it.[17:58:11] <hadees> I know about Calendar but is there a function or am I just supposed to add a day till it equals the end date?[17:58:29] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r you think i could get a copy of those logs?[17:58:52] <ricky_clarkson> hadees: You could find the number of seconds between the 2 dates and convert that to a Date.[17:59:24] *** Lamex has quit IRC[17:59:31] <hadees> ricky_clarkson, i don't just want the diffrence, I want a date object representing each day inbetween[17:59:41] <ricky_clarkson> hadees: So iterate.[18:00:47] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Ask Bevin and use Google.[18:00:57] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Google for bevinbot IMTheNachoMan[18:01:25] *** CBTCWwW has joined ##java[18:02:17] <ricky_clarkson> Perl's optional ()s are funny.[18:02:33] *** CorraSan has quit IRC[18:02:35] <Stork> perl is grotesque[18:02:52] <ricky_clarkson> print join " ",split //,join " ",@ARGV;[18:03:03] * Stork gags[18:03:05] <ricky_clarkson> Or something.[18:03:30] <ricky_clarkson> Yes, that was it.[18:04:14] <Kallistor> can be very hard to interpret something written by another person in perl[18:04:26] <Kallistor> once had to do that with a webshop written in perl[18:04:28] <mohadib> yes[18:04:28] <Kallistor> funfun[18:04:49] <mohadib> perl is hard to read even if you're the person who wrote it :p[18:05:18] * ricky_clarkson is writing code he knows he will deprecate soon.[18:05:41] *** clajvm has joined ##java[18:05:45] <clajvm> hello[18:07:06] *** [TartY] has joined ##java[18:07:09] <ricky_clarkson> ciao[18:07:10] <clajvm> I have need of a book on spider, crawler and other. Someone can help me? thanks[18:07:19] <ricky_clarkson> clajvm: google.[18:07:20] <ricky_clarkson> amazon[18:07:48] <clajvm> ricky_clarkson Are you Italian?[18:07:56] <ricky_clarkson> no.[18:08:07] <clajvm> you speak italian?[18:08:09] <ricky_clarkson> No.[18:08:13] <ricky_clarkson> Ciao is an English word.[18:08:27] <clajvm> ...[18:08:31] *** Stork is now known as stork[18:09:26] *** tvv has joined ##java[18:09:41] <mohadib> ciao is an italian word[18:09:52] <mohadib> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3Aciao&btnG=Google+Search[18:10:08] *** hatOFF has quit IRC[18:10:40] *** Ulgar has quit IRC[18:11:59] *** Beco has joined ##java[18:12:19] <Cow_woC> is there a way to resolve IP to geographical location without dishing out any money? I know you can do IP -> country for free, but is there something that goes down into finer-detail?[18:12:35] *** clajvm has left ##java[18:12:46] <mohadib> Cow_woC: dnsstuff.com has a netgeo ip look up[18:13:21] <Cow_woC> ah, cool[18:13:23] <Cow_woC> thank you ;)[18:13:47] <Cow_woC> hmm, they use ip2location under the covers[18:14:04] <Cow_woC> can I make a few 1000 hits per day or do they cap it (like everyone else) at like 10 requests?[18:14:40] <mohadib> Cow_woC: dnsstuff.com caps you[18:15:51] *** Danielle has quit IRC[18:16:13] *** mutunus has joined ##java[18:16:41] *** noodl has joined ##java[18:16:48] <Cow_woC> mohadib: I wish I could download a local DB so I'd have no caps and not have to waste other people's bandwidth[18:17:14] <Cow_woC> mohadib: I basically have IPs of visitors to my site and I want to resolve them to more accurate geographical location[18:17:18] <seon> can i send in a servlet out.println a <%@include file='introduction.html'%>[18:17:42] <noodl> Hi. Someone has been asking me questions about mod_jk (apache-tomcat connector) in #apache. Sadly none of us have any experience with it. Should I direct him here?[18:18:45] <mohadib> Cow_woC: webalizer does that with s small degree of accuracy ... maybe it will be specific enough?[18:19:02] *** Tartaros has quit IRC[18:19:13] <IMTheNachoMan> does java have a db sorta thing i can use, i dont know anything bout db's but i think im gonna need one to hold all the user info for my chat program (name and passowrd primlaniarly)[18:19:47] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: i would use a real db , like mysql or some such[18:19:51] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: MySQL.[18:19:56] <IMTheNachoMan> for that i have to learn it, dont have time to do that[18:20:02] <mohadib> its easy[18:20:04] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Java-based databases are all for pay, and you probably don't want one.[18:20:08] <IMTheNachoMan> and i dont want to, heh[18:20:10] *** Emil_Zeuthen has joined ##java[18:20:14] <mohadib> select * from users where username='noob';[18:20:14] <IMTheNachoMan> mysql is free?[18:20:21] <mohadib> yes[18:20:22] <nmx> IMTheNachoMan: for what purpose are you writing your chat program anyway?[18:20:25] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: If you want to be a cheapskate, go look at Cloudscape from Informix/IBM. They released it as open-source.[18:20:26] <IMTheNachoMan> work[18:20:32] <IMTheNachoMan> nmx work[18:20:35] <Erica> has anyone seen jk?[18:20:46] <mohadib> Erica: the musical performer[18:20:49] <mohadib> ?[18:20:52] <IMTheNachoMan> or a joke?[18:20:53] <nmx> IMTheNachoMan: so what you're saying is, you got hired to do a job you don't know how to do?[18:20:57] <ricky_clarkson> The guy with the silly hat?[18:20:57] <Erica> now, a regular on this channel[18:21:04] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: ;)[18:21:06] <IMTheNachoMan> nmx haha no, i dont have to do this, im doing it out of my way[18:21:07] <Erica> no, jk is a regular on this channel[18:21:10] <IMTheNachoMan> nmx my job is something completely different[18:21:23] <nmx> IMTheNachoMan: so why is there a time constraint?[18:21:26] *** arnon has joined ##java[18:21:38] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: use a flat text file[18:21:41] * mohadib runs[18:21:42] <Erica> is there any software to help me write detailed feature or requirements for software design?[18:21:45] <IMTheNachoMan> nmx heh, there isnt, but there is a personal one, im going out of the country want to get this done before that[18:21:51] <nmx> IMTheNachoMan: ahh, ok[18:22:02] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: He *could* use an awk/text file back end for storing records...[18:22:14] <IMTheNachoMan> i was just thinking storing to file[18:22:15] <IMTheNachoMan> heh[18:22:15] <ricky_clarkson> Erica: Try UML.[18:22:17] <nmx> IMTheNachoMan: well, sql is pretty easy[18:22:22] <Erica> ok.[18:22:24] <IMTheNachoMan> nmx well il look into it i suppose[18:22:29] <mohadib> damn subclipse is nice[18:22:32] <nmx> IMTheNachoMan: simple stuff anyways, which it sounds like is all you need[18:22:33] <Erica> yes, you are right uml will work[18:22:34] <mohadib> it works so well now[18:22:56] <Erica> i have microsoft project now but everyone says it sucks and hard to use[18:23:03] <pchapman> What is IMTheNachoMan trying to do?[18:23:39] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: make a chat client[18:23:46] <mohadib> rite of passage as a programmer[18:23:49] <roots-> you could also look at the java.util.preferences package[18:23:57] <nmx> oh man, i haven't written a chat client[18:24:07] <arnon> I want to split "C86.2<tab>C86.4 / C46.4" into {"C86.2", "C86.4", "C46.4"}, I did string.split("[(<tab>)(\\s*/\\s*)]"); and it gives me {"C86.2", "", "", "", "", "C86.4", "", "", "C46.4"} instead, help[18:24:08] <roots-> you could even look at serialization and or java.util.Preferences[18:24:10] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: good morning[18:24:17] <Erica> everyone writes a chat client[18:24:23] <Erica> write a chess game[18:24:30] <Erica> or a game to play checkers[18:24:37] <nmx> oh god i haven't written a chess or checkers game either![18:24:42] * nmx turns in his badge[18:24:47] <roots-> i wrote 3 irc clients[18:24:51] <roots-> the 3rd one i even sold[18:24:54] * solus is not a valid programmer either[18:24:56] <roots-> its not used anymore[18:24:59] <roots-> :([18:25:14] <roots-> it was a jdk1.1 featuring an owner-drawn textarea for mirc-colors :)[18:25:18] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: nice , atleast you made some cash off it[18:25:26] <roots-> like 300 euro or such :>[18:25:52] *** JeaK110 has joined ##java[18:25:55] <ricky_clarkson> 18000 marks? ;)[18:26:13] *** seon has quit IRC[18:26:20] <roots-> 1 billion british pounds once your bubble economy bursts[18:26:55] <nmx> ok i guess i better get started on my irc client then[18:27:00] * pr3d4t0r wrote a chat program that translated on the fly between English and any cross-language supported by Babelfish's web services.[18:27:06] * pr3d4t0r got paid for that too.[18:27:12] <roots-> 4haha thats bizarre[18:27:33] <pr3d4t0r> roots-: It was fun.[18:27:39] <pr3d4t0r> roots-: It was for a pr0n site.[18:27:48] <pr3d4t0r> roots-: The models were in Brazil.[18:27:50] <nmx> i made an x10 control program, that was neato[18:28:06] <roots-> pr3d4t0r: did you travel down there for some profound customer contact ?[18:28:08] <pr3d4t0r> roots-: So you could chat with them in English, they'd see the text in Portuguese, and viceversa.[18:28:12] <pr3d4t0r> roots-: No.[18:28:15] <IMTheNachoMan> made 5 grand of a video conferencing program[18:28:28] <Erica> written in java?[18:28:35] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: Yes.[18:28:38] <Erica> cool[18:28:41] <nmx> nice[18:28:49] <Erica> everyone loves java[18:28:50] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: It was an applet for the client and a stand-alone server for the back-end.[18:28:55] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: Not me.[18:28:56] <nmx> java is great[18:29:01] *** agnul has quit IRC[18:29:09] <Erica> pr3d4t0r what do you luv then?[18:29:12] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: Java is becoming the COBOL of a new generation.[18:29:16] <nmx> if only it had a good language, api and vm[18:29:21] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: I'm starting a torrid affair with Ruby.[18:29:35] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: The problem with Java is that it's like a Swiss Army knife.[18:29:49] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: It does a lot of stuff but it isn't ideal for most of it.[18:29:49] <Erica> how is that a problem?[18:30:01] <Erica> oh i see.[18:30:08] <ricky_clarkson> I like static typing.[18:30:09] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: There are better ways to do the same stuff that you do in Java if you bother to check.[18:30:18] <Erica> so you saying that java does a lot of stuff horribly?[18:30:32] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: No, I'm saying it does it adequately, not great.[18:30:38] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: Especially in the web space.[18:30:52] <IMTheNachoMan> Our mainframes now have 32 processors, 8 dedicated to java[18:31:03] <ricky_clarkson> Amateurs.[18:31:11] <Erica> pr3d4t0r well, java is where the jobs are[18:31:11] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: LOL[18:31:25] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: The jobs are wherever you are good at.[18:31:31] <roots-> i used to install websphere on this linux on zos[18:31:38] <roots-> on a damn mainframe with whatnot as hardware[18:31:50] <roots-> a lot of cpu/io resources were assigned to the virtual linux machines[18:31:52] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: I get jobs offered in Objective-C, Smalltalk, Java, C++, UNIX system architecture, etc.[18:31:54] <roots-> but it was too slow to use[18:32:04] <Erica> pr3d4t0r i never get job offers[18:32:08] <roots-> i am qualified as unix admin, c/c++ coder[18:32:09] <Cow_woC> guys ........... why do we keep on Java-bashing for week now?[18:32:13] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: You need better PR ;)[18:32:19] <roots-> but ended up doing stuff i am not good at[18:32:20] <Cow_woC> week -> weeks[18:32:22] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Because it sucks.[18:32:28] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: And I'm not bashing it.[18:32:33] <Erica> pr3d4t0r i don't care anymore i've given up on commercial sector[18:32:35] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: uh, we *are* in ##java no?[18:32:36] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: In reality, it's good enough.[18:32:49] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: yeah, but dude, you could say the same thing about democracy[18:32:56] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: But good enough is not good enough for some applications.[18:32:58] <Erica> i'm free lancing now[18:33:01] <Cow_woC> it's not perfect, but it's the best thing we have[18:33:07] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: Being in a channel about something doesn't mean you can't criticise it.[18:33:10] * IMTheNachoMan knows BASIC[18:33:13] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Java is *not* the best thing we have, that's my problem with it.[18:33:18] <mohadib> ~ridicule IMTheNachoMan[18:33:18] * javabot points at IMTheNachoMan and laughs.[18:33:20] <Erica> i make very little money and get very few jobs but it's better than begging corp america for work and not getting any[18:33:20] <mohadib> ;)[18:33:23] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: there's that, and there's criticizing it for the majority of the time...[18:33:26] <Erica> and i get to be m y own boss[18:33:30] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: if you do the latter, it makes me wonder[18:33:30] <Erica> but I do need more work[18:33:58] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: Most of the time pr3d4t0r is idle. ;)[18:34:00] * hzsp watches OutOfMemoryError: PermGen space err0rs :|[18:34:02] <mutunus> Erica, are you in the us?[18:34:02] <mohadib> Erica: freelance is nice is you have enough work , else you eat a lot of frozen pizzas and ramen :\[18:34:15] * solus needs less work, but more money[18:34:16] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: And dude, I've been doing Java since its very beginning and shipped more Java products and services written in it than most people here, so I think I have a bit of insight into it. And you're welcome to disagree with that, if you can support your argument.[18:34:17] <Erica> mutunus yes :([18:34:28] <mutunus> Erica, why the frown?[18:34:30] <Erica> mohadib i eat a lot of air[18:34:33] <mohadib> heh[18:34:37] <Erica> mutunus because it sucks here[18:34:44] <Erica> i can't find work with corp america[18:34:46] <mutunus> Erica, coding wise?[18:34:53] <mohadib> Erica: depending on where at in the US you are that could be bad for your health[18:34:53] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: I think you forget to factor in the amount of time it takes to learn new concepts and new languages[18:35:14] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: I use Java for more things than maybe I should, but that is with the realization that it might be cheaper in the long run because I know how to use it very well[18:35:21] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: versus say LISP[18:35:21] <Cow_woC> :)[18:35:29] <IMTheNachoMan> is there a way with a java 1.5 compile to compile a program as though it were compiled on 1.4 ?[18:35:32] <Erica> i use to luv lisp now I hate it[18:35:39] *** doc|work has quit IRC[18:35:41] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: I could always use C/C++ which I also know very well, but I always favor Java[18:35:41] <IMTheNachoMan> 1.4.2_07 to be exact[18:35:51] <Cow_woC> IMTheNachoMan: -target 1.4[18:35:51] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: I don't forget that.[18:35:55] <Erica> franz lisp[18:36:05] <Cow_woC> IMTheNachoMan: -source 1.4 -target 1.4 to be precise[18:36:05] <Erica> too many () for me now[18:36:07] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: If I want to code in something, I learn it quickly.[18:36:13] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: Erica++[18:36:14] <mutunus> Erica, I cant find work either in corp america -- do you know where to find telecommute or frelance jobs online[18:36:14] <javabot> erica has a karma level of -1, pr3d4t0r[18:36:20] <mohadib> lol[18:36:20] <IMTheNachoMan> Cow_woC oh thank you[18:36:20] <Erica> (setq a 100)[18:36:26] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: How many people here do you think know Franz :)[18:36:38] <Erica> pr3d4t0r :)[18:36:41] <mohadib> slava[18:36:43] <Erica> i don't know[18:36:50] <Erica> mutunus www.guru.com[18:37:02] <mutunus> Erica, thanks...[18:37:18] *** swperman has joined ##java[18:37:20] <IMTheNachoMan> advice good asking salary for an entrly level programmer?[18:37:25] <IMTheNachoMan> in the usa[18:37:31] <mohadib> 40,000[18:37:37] <IMTheNachoMan> im chatting with someone now and they are asking[18:37:39] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib thank you[18:37:48] <mohadib> sure[18:38:05] <ricky_clarkson> IMTheNachoMan: What do McDonald's workers get>[18:38:21] <IMTheNachoMan> ricky_clarkson dont know[18:38:31] <Cow_woC> mohadib: you kidding me... Is it really 40,000?[18:38:36] <mohadib> subverisions global revison numbering system is annoying[18:38:40] <IMTheNachoMan> ricky_clarkson enough to bring em in to work not enough to get them to do anything[18:38:42] <Cow_woC> man, things have really gone to the crapper over the past few years..[18:38:55] <Cow_woC> in Canada sometimes it's 30k or lower for entry level[18:38:55] <mutunus> Erica, What state r u in?[18:39:02] <mohadib> Cow_woC: thats what my first real programming job paid me $20/hr =~ 42K/yr[18:39:08] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: 15k USD?[18:39:13] <Erica> mutunus Illinois[18:39:18] <pr3d4t0r> Damn.[18:39:19] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: heh, yeah, pretty bad[18:39:24] <arnon> Erica, I think female programmer are minority so finding a job should not be too hard, I think a lot of companies look for minority, female programmer[18:39:34] <Erica> arnon hardly[18:39:42] <pr3d4t0r> arnon: They don't.[18:39:45] <roots-> most guys dont want chicks on their team[18:39:48] <pr3d4t0r> arnon: Companies can get sued for that.[18:39:55] <roots-> psychologically and socially programmers are mostly retards[18:39:55] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: 20k GBP[18:39:56] <pr3d4t0r> roots-: Bullshit.[18:40:12] <mutunus> Erica, at leat the sox won last nite...[18:40:18] <swperman> hi there... Is there a way to use regexps like s/aaa\([a-z]\)aaa/bbb\1bbb/g (in vim or sed) with the command replaceAll() or another similar?[18:40:20] <Erica> sox?[18:40:26] <Erica> what is that?[18:40:47] <mutunus> Erica, The chicago White Sox....[18:40:53] <IMTheNachoMan> roots- i dont know bout that, socially im doin ok[18:40:55] <mohadib> Erica: lame baseball[18:41:11] <Erica> oh[18:41:14] <IMTheNachoMan> roots- and id take a chick on my team, just cuase there female doesnt mean there dumb[18:41:14] <IMTheNachoMan> heh[18:41:17] <Erica> i hate sports[18:41:20] <Erica> boring[18:41:42] <roots-> winston churchill said "no sports"[18:41:46] <roots-> he became very old[18:41:47] <mohadib> baseball and nascar is less fun than watching paint dry[18:41:59] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: F1 racing is where it's at.[18:42:11] *** cm_patric has joined ##java[18:42:13] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Faster cars, and hotties around the track with full sets of teeth.[18:42:13] <Erica> tennis and figure skating I do like though.[18:42:15] <ricky_clarkson> Do you want to become very old?[18:42:18] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: i like to watch the X games ;p[18:42:21] <hzsp> Erica: I wonder why ;)[18:42:25] <swperman> with replaceAll() I have to pass 2 arguments, the "from" (regexp, ok) and the "to" (only plain String, as it seems, with no regexp stuff like \1...)[18:42:29] <mutunus> pr3d4t0r, yep .... alonso rocks![18:42:32] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: I like to *participate* in things like X-games.[18:42:36] <arnon> I am doing replaceAll("[(<tab>)(/)]", "<haha>") on "C375.2<tab>C375.4 / C376.4" and I am getting "C375.2<haha><haha><haha><haha><haha>C375.4 <haha> C376.4" instead of "C375.2<haha>C375.4<haha>C376.4", why ?[18:42:50] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: me too , but my AS has put a damper on such activites[18:42:59] <Erica> well, back to work for me. i'm uml'ing[18:43:09] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Your AS? Ass?[18:43:13] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Big Ass?[18:43:24] <arnon> alonso rocks because it's his year, alonso born in rooster year, and this year is a rooster year[18:43:28] <omry|work> Erica, the joy, the happiness. :)[18:43:38] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: http://www.nass.co.uk/[18:43:40] <mutunus> arnon, you chinese?[18:43:48] <arnon> mutunus, yes[18:44:03] <ricky_clarkson> ni hao[18:44:22] <mutunus> arnon, That doenst apply to shumacher though... he won how many in sequential years...[18:44:31] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Is AS one of those illnesses that only Americans get like fibromyalgia?[18:44:34] <arnon> mutunus, I know , shumacher is god[18:44:44] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Ah! No, you're serious.[18:44:48] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: na , that site i linked you to is in the UK[18:44:49] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Damn, sorry to hear that.[18:44:52] <IMTheNachoMan> so...how bout that java 1.5[18:44:56] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: its not that bad :p[18:45:06] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Sorry mate, I didn't mean to.[18:45:10] <mohadib> np ;)[18:45:12] <ricky_clarkson> Works for me.[18:45:38] <mutunus> arnon, schumacher is really overrated -- he won in a field where there was not competition -- let see what he does next year in a v -8 ...[18:45:59] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: I had a person I know who had this thing touted as "fibro myalgia". If you look at the "symptoms" it describes a fat arsed, somewhat depressed, lazy person.[18:46:12] <mohadib> HAHAHA[18:46:15] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: And the only place where I could find information about it was in the US.[18:46:31] <mohadib> LOOL , we have a bunch of fat arses here :p[18:46:36] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Indeed.[18:46:44] * pr3d4t0r looks at his -- it's fatter than he'd like it to be.[18:46:51] <IMTheNachoMan> anyone here work for Lockheed Martin?[18:46:51] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: i refuse to got to a beach in the US[18:46:58] <swperman> arnon: I think that "<tab>" in "[(<tab>)(/)]" matches individually <, t, a, b and >... I guess that's why you get five <haha>s...[18:46:59] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib why?[18:47:02] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Me too, until next spring.[18:47:03] <mohadib> too many fat chicks in thongs[18:47:07] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: I'm going back to the gym soon.[18:47:12] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib which beach are you going to?[18:47:16] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib how old are you?[18:47:22] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: I want to do at least one more fight before I turn 40, then retire from the sport.[18:47:24] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: last one was in texas :p[18:47:30] <arnon> mutunus, what I heard is that ferrari doesn't do a good job adapting to the new aerodynamic rule and bridgestone isn't that good this year, but still with that screwed up package, schumy still manage on 3rd driver constructor, he's good[18:47:32] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: nice[18:47:33] <mutunus> mohadib, where in the US are u?[18:47:35] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: I also want to do that before the full arthritis sets in ;)[18:47:41] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: :\[18:47:43] <pr3d4t0r> mutunus: Fix your keyboard.[18:47:44] <mohadib> yeo[18:47:46] *** TPC has left ##java[18:47:48] <pr3d4t0r> mutunus: It's "you", not "u".[18:47:52] <mohadib> mutunus: New Mexcio[18:47:57] <arnon> swperman, I see[18:48:00] <mohadib> ~tell mutunus about aolbonics[18:48:00] <javabot> mutunus, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201[18:48:30] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: im 28[18:48:37] <mutunus> pr3d4t0r, what are we speaking here? the queens english?[18:48:49] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r you should updated the factoid with "see IMTheNachoMan for more information on what happens if you continue to talk using aolbionics"[18:49:01] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: http://www.doctorndtv.com/FAQ/detailfaq.asp?id=6728[18:49:03] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib come to VA Beach, and il show you some women[18:49:14] <arnon> swperman, do you know how can I solve this problem? I thought I already give ( ) between <tab> and it should treat as a group...[18:49:19] <hzsp> mutunus: y3s[18:49:20] <pr3d4t0r> mutunus: No, but please abstain from using aolbonics.[18:49:36] <mutunus> IMTheNachoMan, Come to florida/miami I'll show you some even nicer ones...[18:49:41] <hzsp> pr3d4t0r: so your nick is just a bit of post-modern irony? ;)[18:49:46] <pr3d4t0r> Florida++[18:49:55] <pr3d4t0r> hzsp: My /nick is none of your business.[18:50:01] <hzsp> aw :([18:50:07] <mutunus> pr3d4t0r, understood-- just did it to be concise.[18:50:07] <pr3d4t0r> hzsp: ;)[18:50:21] <pr3d4t0r> mutunus: You know, the channel noise gets pretty bad on occasion.[18:50:45] <pr3d4t0r> mutunus: If we start allowing aolbonics then it'll be indistinguishable from IRC/games or AOL chat.[18:50:47] <IMTheNachoMan> mutunus yeah been there, il agree[18:50:55] <pr3d4t0r> mutunus: That's why we prefer to keep the aolbonics down.[18:51:25] <swperman> arnon: you have to use "(<tab>)|(/)"[18:51:35] <mutunus> pr3d4t0r, thats fine... I slipped... return to old habits I guess....[18:51:36] <pr3d4t0r> hzsp: The problem with my /nick is that too many people know me that way.[18:51:40] <pr3d4t0r> mutunus: No worries.[18:51:49] <pr3d4t0r> mutunus: I only pounce on IMTheNachoMan -- we're cool.[18:51:57] <pr3d4t0r> mutunus: Watch:[18:51:58] * IMTheNachoMan feels special[18:51:59] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r[18:52:00] <IMTheNachoMan> oh oh[18:52:01] *** IMTheNachoMan was kicked by pr3d4t0r (pr3d4t0r)[18:52:03] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r[18:52:05] *** IMTheNachoMan has joined ##java[18:52:07] <pr3d4t0r> mutunus: See?[18:52:10] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Oh, hi![18:52:12] <mutunus> pr3d4t0r, copy that.[18:52:26] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r hi, nice to see you in again, have not spoke to you in a long time[18:52:41] <jwormy> hahah[18:52:41] <pr3d4t0r> mutunus: So if someone starts using aolbonics, you know the consequences. I'll /kick IMTheNachoMan off the channel.[18:52:42] <jwormy> yea[18:52:45] <jwormy> i used to be 'that guy'[18:52:51] <jwormy> but now pr3d4t0r fears me..[18:52:52] <cyclone> i c u IMTheNachoMan[18:52:54] * cyclone ducks[18:52:56] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r[18:52:58] *** IMTheNachoMan was kicked by pr3d4t0r (pr3d4t0r)[18:52:58] <arnon> swperman, thank you, it works[18:53:02] *** IMTheNachoMan has joined ##java[18:53:02] <cyclone> lol[18:53:03] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r[18:53:04] <cyclone> DOH[18:53:06] <cyclone> IMTheNachoMan: sorry[18:53:15] <pr3d4t0r> cyclone: Wait until he gets back.[18:53:17] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r[18:53:18] *** shad0wcat has joined ##java[18:53:26] <cyclone> hehe[18:53:37] <jwormy> argh its cold here in NC[18:53:40] <cyclone> One more day till Friday.. awwwhhh yeaahhh[18:53:46] <IMTheNachoMan> hi[18:53:48] <ricky_clarkson> It's cold here in NB.[18:53:50] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r[18:53:52] <ricky_clarkson> Newton Building.[18:53:54] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: ;)[18:54:00] <cyclone> 70F here in U[18:54:07] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r[18:54:09] *** cyclone was kicked by pr3d4t0r (pr3d4t0r)[18:54:10] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r[18:54:14] <ricky_clarkson> ;)[18:54:15] *** cyclone has joined ##java[18:54:16] <nmx> wow cyclone is old[18:54:19] *** mutunus has left ##java[18:54:25] <pr3d4t0r> He, he, he...[18:54:26] <cyclone> ;)[18:54:37] <ricky_clarkson> Eau de EFNet.[18:54:47] <axxo> u[18:54:58] <cyclone> To many politics on efnet at the moment.[18:54:59] <cyclone> :-/[18:55:01] * pr3d4t0r gets back to work; the game is getting old.[18:55:03] <swperman> arnon: you're welcome =)[18:55:49] <arnon> swperman, do you know what's the different between [(ab)|(cd)] and (ab)|(cd) ?[18:56:14] <axxo> one has [] the other doesn't[18:56:21] <nmx> To many politics![18:56:23] * nmx raises his glass[18:56:47] * ricky_clarkson raises nmx' glass.[18:57:53] *** Sancezz has joined ##java[18:58:28] <IMTheNachoMan> arnon there is a difference?[18:58:56] *** seon has joined ##java[19:00:00] <swperman> arnon: I think that the brackets ("[]") mandatorily treat everything inside as single characters...[19:00:33] <ricky_clarkson> "blah" matches [all][19:00:39] <arnon> swperman, I see, thank you[19:00:43] <ricky_clarkson> Well, contains [all][19:00:50] *** noodl has left ##java[19:00:52] <arnon> ricky_clarkson, I see[19:01:02] <ricky_clarkson> blah doesn't contain all[19:01:22] *** tezem has joined ##java[19:01:42] <pr3d4t0r> It's the same thing I'm doing now, but it'll be official then :)[19:01:53] <arnon> I am off to lunch[19:01:56] *** arnon has quit IRC[19:02:20] *** wms has joined ##java[19:02:55] *** fuso has joined ##java[19:03:32] *** tvv has quit IRC[19:03:58] <lunk> how can I disable a submit button after it's clicked using Struts?[19:04:47] <ricky_clarkson> Sounds like a JS question.[19:05:13] <swperman> I have a similar problem... can anyone help? replaceAll("aaa([a-z]*)aaa","bbb\1bbb") transforms "aaafdoijeoaaa" into "bbb1bbb", instead of "bbbfdoijeobbb"... what happens?[19:05:31] <mohadib> lunk: button.removeActionListener(al); button.setEnabled(false); :p[19:05:48] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell swperman about double escape[19:05:49] <javabot> swperman, double escape is http://mindprod.com/jgloss/regex.html - see the first row in the table.[19:07:19] <IMTheNachoMan> bbl[19:07:21] <IMTheNachoMan> i mean be back later[19:07:21] <IMTheNachoMan> sorry[19:07:21] <IMTheNachoMan> bye[19:07:24] *** IMTheNachoMan has quit IRC[19:07:31] <Honk^away> ricky_clarkson: that's not the problem[19:07:52] <ricky_clarkson> Honk^away: Er, \1?[19:08:10] <Honk^away> replaceAll doesnt allow \1 for groups int he first place ;)[19:08:26] <ricky_clarkson> Well, that's to come after the compiler parses it correctly. ;)[19:08:30] <Honk^away> ~tell swperman about javadoc matcher[19:08:30] <javabot> swperman, please see java.util.regex.Matcher: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/regex/Matcher.html[19:08:37] <Honk^away> ricky_clarkson: that's valid java[19:08:57] <ricky_clarkson> Honk^away: Correctly.[19:09:12] <Honk^away> huh? ;)[19:09:36] <ricky_clarkson> The compiler might parse it, but not as the luser expeccts.[19:09:50] <Honk^away> and heand if he did get bbb1bbb, he did use double \[19:10:19] <ricky_clarkson> ~confuse Honk^away[19:10:20] <javabot> no, them is your J2EE tomorrow, Honk^away? At least that's what the manager of java said, with extra cream[19:10:41] <Honk^away> foooood![19:11:03] <ricky_clarkson> Damn sunset.[19:11:06] <ricky_clarkson> I was gonna cycle.[19:11:30] *** teralaser has joined ##java[19:12:03] <tezem> sorry but how can I implement a composition in Java when I need to get the object from outside of the holding object? How can I make sure that the object I hold has only one reference to it which should be the reference inside my holding object?[19:12:06] <lunk> mohadib: struts not swing, i think it's got a really lame java script solution[19:12:23] <ricky_clarkson> Make a field..[19:18:14] <mohadib> lunk: checkout onClick="return doCheck()" or some such[19:18:47] *** Sou|cutter has joined ##java[19:19:22] <seon> do you know a place where i can ask for mp3 or real music file?[19:19:41] <mohadib> ?[19:20:38] <pr3d4t0r> Cheers.[19:20:57] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: ;)[19:21:00] *** shad0wcat has quit IRC[19:21:27] * hzsp off[19:21:46] * hzsp off[19:21:49] *** hzsp has quit IRC[19:21:58] <swperman> seon: what kind of music do you want[19:22:26] <seon> swperman> i want to convert a rm file in a mp3 file[19:24:45] * mohadib sniffs a line of wasabi[19:24:54] <Coffe> When I create a JTree in netbeans, I get the some nodes by default (colors,sports,food), how do I add my own or remove them through netbeans and not by code ?[19:25:04] <mohadib> lol[19:25:16] <Honk^away> Coffe: read the tutorial on jtrees[19:25:22] <Honk^away> it should be linked from the api :p[19:25:46] *** seon has left ##java[19:25:59] *** amphiboid has joined ##java[19:26:09] <Coffe> Honk^away: Well yeha, it's not hard to add it by code, but I want to remove and add nodes through the design mode )=[19:26:11] *** sockmonk has joined ##java[19:26:18] *** IMTheNachoMan has joined ##java[19:26:23] <lunk> mohadib: i got it, it was as lame as expected[19:27:01] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib heh, there is a #swing too[19:27:16] <Honk^away> Coffe: ...[19:27:38] <Honk^away> they 're not exactly gui elements, are they? :}[19:27:51] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: # channels are for people who own the project[19:27:59] <mohadib> thats why we are in ##java not #java[19:28:04] <IMTheNachoMan> oh i see[19:28:15] <Coffe> Honk^away: Right, but I have succeded with adding items through the design mode, I think =p[19:28:46] <Honk^away> i dont think you did ;) though i never tried that..[19:29:03] *** Baloogan has joined ##java[19:29:18] <Baloogan> Ok! How do I delete an object?[19:29:27] <Honk^away> you dont :][19:29:33] <Baloogan> I need to delete something :([19:29:38] <Honk^away> garbage collection ftw[19:29:42] <Baloogan> And garbage collection doesn't get it,[19:29:48] <Baloogan> ftw?[19:29:50] <roots-> test[19:29:54] <Honk^away> for teh win :)[19:29:57] <roots-> ~ping[19:29:57] <javabot> The machine that goes 'pong' has arrived.[19:29:59] <Honk^away> Baloogan: just lose all references to it[19:30:11] <Baloogan> Honk^away: Impossible. :([19:30:17] <Baloogan> It has no references to begin with.[19:30:29] <Baloogan> Its a new OptionsFrame();[19:30:29] <Honk^away> how do you know it's not garbagecollected?[19:30:35] <Honk^away> if it doesnt have references?[19:30:45] <Honk^away> well.. Frames DO have references :p[19:30:52] <dmlloyd|work> whenever I type "ant war", I get such an interesting image in my mind[19:30:52] <Baloogan> I don't have any in my program.[19:31:02] <Baloogan> But its still there.[19:31:07] <tieTYT> dmlloyd: hah[19:31:08] <mohadib> howdy dmlloyd|work[19:31:08] <Honk^away> so the real question is "how do i remove a Frame"?[19:31:11] * IMTheNachoMan is thourally confused[19:31:11] <dmlloyd|work> hi[19:31:13] <Baloogan> Honk^away: Yes.[19:31:18] <Honk^away> Baloogan: that's cuz swing/awt keeps the references[19:31:22] <Baloogan> Yes.[19:31:26] <Honk^away> ~tell Baloogan about JFrame[19:31:27] <javabot> Baloogan, JFrame is an extended version of java.awt.Frame that adds support for the JFC/Swing component architecture. See: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/javax/swing/JFrame.html[19:31:32] <Honk^away> search the method yourself ;)[19:31:34] <Honk^away> lazy one[19:31:36] <Baloogan> Jesus. Just tell me how to kill it.[19:31:54] <IMTheNachoMan> Jesus isnt here[19:32:11] <Honk^away> ahhh, i dont get it[19:32:23] <IMTheNachoMan> he stepped out for a moment, i think he said he had a city to save[19:32:32] <Honk^away> why does java try to connect to a random host in my lan, if i specify 127.0.0.1 as host?[19:32:44] <cyclone> Honk^away: talk about lazy.. You still haven't changed your nick back from away. ;P[19:32:44] <Honk^away> if i specify my external interface, it works just fine..[19:32:46] * cyclone ducks[19:32:49] <Baloogan> Honk^away: It doesn't work.[19:32:52] *** stork is now known as Stork[19:32:54] <Baloogan> There is no way[19:32:56] <Baloogan> I mean[19:32:59] <Honk^away> Baloogan: lol[19:33:07] <Honk^away> you are pretty damn fast[19:33:12] <Baloogan> Yeah.[19:33:18] <Honk^away> 10 seconds to read that huge page?[19:33:20] <Honk^away> impressive[19:33:23] <Honk^away> very impressive[19:33:40] <Baloogan> I've read it before.[19:33:43] * IMTheNachoMan just plugs into the internet and downloads everything to his brain[19:33:50] <Baloogan> To make my fucking jframe.[19:33:50] <Honk^away> Baloogan: not properly obviously[19:34:13] <IMTheNachoMan> Baloogan what are you trying to do?[19:34:13] <tieTYT> i'm still trying to figure out how to highlight words in swing. I'm using a JTextPane and StyledDocument.insertString but this forces the cursor to be at the end of the text[19:34:14] <Honk^away> there's a method to destroy the frame if you dont want to show it any longer[19:34:22] <Honk^away> and there's a method to set it as invisible too[19:34:36] <tieTYT> am i approaching this in the right way? I want to mimick text highlighting like an IDE does[19:35:29] <Baloogan> Honk^away: I know how to make it invisible.[19:36:11] <IMTheNachoMan> tieTYT yeah, there is a tutorial on the java site for how to use jeditorpanes i dont know how to do it my self but i have seen it[19:36:23] <tieTYT> i'm looking at that too[19:36:24] *** JeaK110 has quit IRC[19:36:27] <Honk^away> Baloogan: great :)[19:36:30] <tieTYT> but there examples are using static text[19:36:31] <IMTheNachoMan> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/index.html[19:36:37] <Honk^away> why do you need more? ;)[19:36:39] <IMTheNachoMan> tieTYT ahh[19:37:07] *** Kezzer has joined ##java[19:37:08] <Baloogan> Honk^away: Because I make hundreds of these fuckers[19:37:14] <Baloogan> And I need them to DIE[19:37:18] <Baloogan> And not take memory[19:37:38] <Honk^away> well..[19:37:40] <Honk^away> read the api[19:38:05] <mohadib> Baloogan: loose all refrences and the object will get GCed[19:38:19] <Baloogan> mohadib: I don't have any references to begin with.[19:38:21] <IMTheNachoMan> Baloogan System.gc()[19:38:26] <mohadib> Baloogan: er , you do[19:38:32] <mohadib> or they would get GCed[19:38:34] <Baloogan> the jframe is created with "new OptionsScreen();"[19:38:39] <mohadib> if you have objects you have refrences[19:38:42] <Baloogan> And its there.[19:38:46] <Stork> does System.gc() actually work :\ ?[19:38:47] *** ractrev has quit IRC[19:38:49] <IMTheNachoMan> tieTYT http://javaalmanac.com/egs/javax.swing.text/style_ListStyles.html[19:38:53] <mohadib> Stork: its a suggestion[19:38:56] <mohadib> a hint[19:38:57] <IMTheNachoMan> Stork well thats what i foundon the tutorial[19:39:01] <IMTheNachoMan> found on[19:39:08] <Honk^away> Stork: maybe is the correct answer ;)[19:39:14] <Stork> i've used it a few times, haven't noticed a difference though[19:39:20] <IMTheNachoMan> i dont know much bout what he is asking, im just posting what i find, im getting tired of the complaining[19:39:29] <Honk^away> Baloogan: just a question..[19:39:30] <IMTheNachoMan> Stork well java runs it by it self[19:39:40] <Honk^away> but why dont you use the same frame every time you need it[19:39:47] <Honk^away> instead of creating 100 different frames? :)[19:39:48] <Stork> yeh, fair enough[19:40:00] <tieTYT> hm ok[19:40:00] <tieTYT> thanks[19:40:06] <Baloogan> Honk^away: Because I have more than one displaying at a time.[19:40:12] <Baloogan> Alot alot[19:40:22] <IMTheNachoMan> Baloogan what are you trying to do?[19:40:33] *** ole|AWAY is now known as OleMoudi[19:40:51] <Baloogan> IMTheNachoMan: Test out the java VM with lots of jframes.[19:40:54] <Baloogan> :/[19:41:02] <Baloogan> Lots and lots.[19:41:12] <Baloogan> and lots.[19:41:17] <IMTheNachoMan> Baloogan look into interface destroyable[19:41:20] <IMTheNachoMan> ~destroyable[19:41:21] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, I have no idea what destroyable is.[19:41:27] <Baloogan> ooooh[19:41:29] <Baloogan> I want that.[19:41:31] <Honk^away> Baloogan: 100 frames showing at the same time?[19:41:32] *** Corical has joined ##java[19:41:35] <Baloogan> Honk^away: 1000s.[19:41:37] <IMTheNachoMan> how can i make a factoid[19:41:38] <Honk^away> you might want to reconsider your gui design[19:41:42] <IMTheNachoMan> destroyable is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/javax/security/auth/Destroyable.html[19:41:44] <Baloogan> Cricky.[19:41:47] <Honk^away> IMTheNachoMan: huh?[19:41:52] <Honk^away> try ~javadoc ;)[19:42:07] <IMTheNachoMan> ~javadoct destroyable[19:42:07] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, I have no idea what javadoct destroyable is.[19:42:15] <Baloogan> SHOWER TIME[19:42:17] <IMTheNachoMan> ~javadoc destroyable[19:42:17] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, please see javax.security.auth.Destroyable: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/javax/security/auth/Destroyable.html[19:42:21] <IMTheNachoMan> ahh ok thx[19:42:31] <IMTheNachoMan> Baloogan is that all you wanted?[19:42:35] <IMTheNachoMan> first hit on a google search[19:42:55] *** Sancezz has quit IRC[19:43:35] <roots-> lots of JFrames ?[19:43:41] <roots-> i'd say one is enough[19:43:48] <roots-> maybe 2-3 in some scenarios[19:43:51] <roots-> even that is questionable[19:43:56] <Stork> i'm going to make a java application to get lyrics for a certain song[19:44:00] <roots-> you should try my RCP framework[19:44:18] <mohadib> roots-: link[19:44:31] <IMTheNachoMan> tieTYT http://examples.oreilly.com/jswing2/code/ch22/StyleFrame.java[19:44:33] <roots-> if i ever release it, minimum size, but maximum RCP framework, should offer a nice gui and a module architecture[19:45:04] <roots-> similar to eclipse's views and osgi's (also in eclipse) plugin stuff, but way less complex[19:45:05] <IMTheNachoMan> later guys[19:45:10] *** alesan has joined ##java[19:45:12] <alesan> hi[19:45:13] <roots-> i hacked something the last few nights[19:46:08] <tieTYT> IMTheNachoMan: thanks again[19:46:53] *** incorrect has joined ##java[19:47:06] *** [-D7-] has joined ##java[19:47:08] <[-D7-]> hello[19:47:30] <mohadib> [-D7-]: HY! your nick is annoying :)[19:47:46] <[-D7-]> not in my country[19:48:26] <pr3d4t0r> [-D7-]: No le hagas caso al mohadib.[19:48:36] * pr3d4t0r mira a mohadib con desdeño.[19:48:41] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: ;)[19:49:06] <mohadib> :p[19:49:22] <[-D7-]> how can I access to context of app server ( SunONE ) to make data available to every component deployed ?[19:49:28] * mohadib has no clue what was just said[19:49:33] * mohadib smiles and nods[19:49:47] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: I told him to ignore you ;)[19:50:09] <pr3d4t0r> OKi, time to get my Batmobile from the shop. See you guys later.[19:50:11] * pr3d4t0r left.[19:50:23] <IMTheNachoMan> yeah!!! party!!!![19:50:23] <mohadib> later[19:50:28] <Stork> bye pr3d4t0r[19:50:32] <Stork> hi and bye*U[19:50:35] <Stork> *[19:50:41] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r aruvua[19:50:48] <IMTheNachoMan> dont know how thats spelled[19:50:56] <mohadib> ok , i got to /part or im never gonna get anything done[19:51:02] <mohadib> have a swell day![19:51:05] *** mohadib has left ##java[19:51:44] *** auv has joined ##java[19:51:59] *** vinse has joined ##java[19:52:00] <auv> hi, how can i set environmental variables?[19:52:01] *** pchapman has quit IRC[19:52:03] <Stork> ~htmlparser[19:52:04] <javabot> Stork, htmlparser is http://htmlparser.sf.net - it parses HTML.[19:52:07] <Stork> awesome[19:52:13] <Stork> ~thanks[19:52:13] <javabot> np[19:53:11] *** vinse has left ##java[19:54:04] *** Mactabilis has joined ##java[19:55:22] <nmx> auv: under which operating system?[19:55:27] <paulweb515> auv: what kind of environment variables? System properties? win32? linux shell?[19:55:38] <paulweb515> What nmx said ... :-)[19:55:53] <auv> os environmental vars[19:56:02] <auv> does it matter which one?[19:56:05] <auv> from java code[19:56:23] <paulweb515> the short answer is yes[19:56:24] *** bpalmer has quit IRC[19:56:30] <auv> heh[19:56:36] <paulweb515> yes it matters (not yes you can do it0[19:56:49] *** kio has joined ##java[19:57:05] <auv> paulweb515, os matters?[19:57:18] <auv> if i'm trying to set it from code?[19:57:34] <paulweb515> Java doesn't provide an easy way to do it[19:57:35] <kio> Hi, am trying to match a pattern but having problem[19:58:09] <kio> I want to locate the line containing "matched pattern" in a text file[19:58:13] <paulweb515> and on linux, there isn't a way for a program (any binary executable) to set the parent process variables[19:58:26] <kio> so[19:58:36] <paulweb515> (unless perhaps you go through the kernel)[19:58:54] *** vinse has joined ##java[19:59:00] <kio> Pattern p = Pattern.compile ("matched pattern");[19:59:15] <auv> paulweb515, now i see, thanks//[19:59:53] <kio> Matcher match = p.matcher (lineString);[20:00:33] <kio> which I have in a loop over the text file[20:00:47] <kio> and break when matcher.matches() == true[20:00:53] <[-D7-]> paulweb515, but .... is not System enviroment the OS enviroment ? or is JMV enviroment ?[20:01:04] <kio> but somehow it never matches[20:01:56] <[-D7-]> kio, to match this pattern, I think that the line must be exactly equal[20:01:56] <swperman> you are sure that there is a line in the file with "matched pattern" ?[20:02:01] <roots-> paulweb515: you could if the parent program cooperates[20:02:04] <paulweb515> Sorry, I meant like System.getProperties()[20:02:09] <roots-> eg sources the output of the child[20:02:18] <roots-> but besides that the kernel is the only option[20:02:53] <[-D7-]> paulweb515, and System.getProperties() doesn't have the OS enviroment ?[20:02:55] <paulweb515> roots-: yeah, like the interactive version of updating bash variables: % eval `resize`[20:03:13] <swperman> [-D7-]: not necessarily... if the line contains the pattern, it's supposed to match... isn't it?[20:03:17] <paulweb515> resize actually outputs environment variables in bash syntax[20:03:28] <ernimril> swperman: use find instead[20:03:38] *** MindZEye has joined ##java[20:04:06] <auv> hm, and what about getting java system properties from ant, which is executed from java code using api?[20:04:08] <ernimril> hello all :-)[20:04:09] <paulweb515> [-D7-]: Not by default, I think ...[20:04:23] <roots-> yeah its the only way[20:04:30] <swperman> kio: you are sure that there is a line in the file with "matched pattern" ?[20:04:36] <kio> hmm, [-D7-] , I thought I can find aab in aaab[20:04:50] <paulweb515> auv: ant loads and parses the environment variables and makes them available as properties[20:04:56] <kio> swperman, yes, checked and double checked[20:05:50] <auv> paulweb515, i mean i need to java system properties, not environment variables now[20:05:55] <ricky_clarkson> *yawn*[20:05:59] <swperman> try debugging the thing to see what's going on... by what you're telling, I think it's supposed to work fine...[20:06:01] <auv> *to get from ant[20:06:35] <kio> swperman, ok, just want to see if I have the correct concept[20:06:47] *** ern has joined ##java[20:07:09] <paulweb515> auv: you want to get back properties from ant, or you want to execute ant with some properties set?[20:07:27] <[-D7-]> kio, are you sure that is not mandatory be equal ?[20:07:39] <[-D7-]> it's only a question ...I dont remember it[20:07:51] *** danny_osl has joined ##java[20:08:00] <auv> i set java system property, execute ant from java code and need to load java system property as ant property[20:08:04] <auv> 2 paulweb515[20:08:13] *** tezem has quit IRC[20:08:34] *** ern has quit IRC[20:08:48] *** slava has left ##java[20:08:48] <paulweb515> If you use System.setProperty() before you execute ant, does ant see it?[20:09:13] <paulweb515> auv: You can write a bogus ant script with an *echo* task to test it[20:09:36] <danny_osl> ok, n00b question: I have a sha-1 hashed entry in a database, that in my code is just a string. I'm trying to compute a SHA-1 hash to match it and compare the two. Using ant/command-line, my code worked. In eclipse, the output of new String(the hash) is something cryptic, like "StringBuffer hexString = new StringBuffer();[20:09:42] <danny_osl> for (int i=0;i<digest.length;i++) {[20:09:44] <danny_osl> hexString.append([20:09:47] <danny_osl> Integer.toHexString(0xFF & digest[i]));[20:09:49] <danny_osl> hexString.append(" ");[20:09:49] <danny_osl> shoot, copied teh wrong thing, my apologies channel[20:09:52] <danny_osl> }[20:10:33] <danny_osl> anyway, could this be a charset issue? i'm just trying to get this hash into an ascii string[20:11:05] <ernimril> danny_osl: your code is wrong by the way...[20:11:23] <ernimril> danny_osl: since you do not make sure that you get 2 characters from toHexString...[20:11:38] <danny_osl> that's not my code, I didn't realize that was in my buffer[20:11:43] *** pchapman has joined ##java[20:12:03] *** MindZEye has quit IRC[20:12:34] <danny_osl> I'm just doing a simple digest.update(someString.getBytes()), new String(digest.digest())[20:12:46] <kio> [-D7-], well, the example in the doc mentions matching "aab" to "aaab"[20:12:51] <danny_osl> where 'digest' is MessageDigest.getInstance('sha-1');[20:13:09] <ernimril> danny_osl: a digest produces a byte[] that is random, it will not be a good string[20:13:44] <danny_osl> right, but String's constructor can take a byte array[20:14:16] <danny_osl> regardless, what is the proper way to compare two values, one being the sha-1 hash stored in the DB, the other being a plain-text value that needs to be hashed?[20:14:31] <ricky_clarkson> danny_osl: hash the latter, compare the result.[20:14:36] <ernimril> danny_osl: yes, but if your encoding is variable length (utf-8 or some other thing) you may get something that fails to decode the byte to a string[20:14:50] <danny_osl> ricky_clarkson: that's what I'm trying to do...but the hash doesn't seem to be giving me something comparable[20:14:59] <danny_osl> ernimril: how do I specify the encoding?[20:15:11] <danny_osl> (I believe I prefaced all of this with 'n00b')[20:15:11] <ricky_clarkson> danny_osl: What is it giving you?[20:15:14] <ernimril> danny_osl: what is the thing in the database? a byte[] or a String or a hexstring?[20:15:38] <danny_osl> the value in the database is a string (looks like ascii)[20:15:46] <danny_osl> 40 chars, as I would expect from a sha1[20:16:12] <ernimril> danny_osl: something like "9cbc7d7d01c3b956e7093ae2bf5651ebe928d93c Makefile" ?[20:16:16] <danny_osl> yeah[20:16:27] <ernimril> danny_osl: that is not the same thing as the byte[][20:16:30] <danny_osl> I'm aware[20:16:51] <ricky_clarkson> I'm self-aware.[20:17:03] <danny_osl> it seems like it's a charset issue. those 4 lines of code I used above worked fine from my ant/command line app, when i run it in eclipse, I get the strange encoding[20:17:04] <ernimril> danny_osl: http://www.khelekore.org/~robo/MD5.java <= example sha1/md5 that output same thing as md5sum/sha1sum[20:17:16] <auv> paulweb515, it does now, thanks.. i found my mistake..[20:17:40] * ricky_clarkson goes home.[20:17:42] <ernimril> danny_osl: convert the byte[] to a string with a sensible method and then compare the string with the database string[20:17:52] *** ern has joined ##java[20:17:55] <danny_osl> define 'sensible method'[20:17:58] <[-D7-]> kio, I probed it[20:18:11] <danny_osl> I don't understand why the string taking it as a constructor arg wouldn't do it[20:18:23] <[-D7-]> kio, and boolean b = Pattern.matches("ab", "aaaaab"); is false[20:18:29] <roots-> new String(byte[]) is almost always wrong[20:18:33] <ernimril> danny_osl: the byte[] is random binary, it is not a string[20:18:33] <roots-> i am on a crusade against it[20:18:51] *** kur1j has quit IRC[20:18:51] <danny_osl> alright, I guess I don't understnad how to convert it then[20:19:11] <roots-> new String(byteArray, "UTF-8") is most bytes are < 128[20:19:13] <ernimril> danny_osl: I gave you an example program that does the conversion[20:19:19] <roots-> that is lossless[20:19:42] <ernimril> roots-: assuming you have a nice byte[] with data that can be made fully into characters[20:20:00] <nmx> aren't all bytes in java < 128?[20:20:14] <ernimril> roots-: new String(byteArray, "ISO-8859-1") is easier to use[20:20:21] <roots-> its lossy[20:20:33] <roots-> erm sorry[20:20:41] <roots-> it is not[20:20:59] <roots-> it is fine yes[20:21:28] <roots-> nmx: sorry[20:21:32] <roots-> please ignore me for today[20:21:34] <roots-> completely :)[20:21:42] <nmx> heh[20:21:46] <ernimril> roots-: did you say something?[20:21:46] <nmx> can do[20:22:04] <ernimril> :-)[20:22:37] <ernimril> danny_osl: the people who put the strings in the database ought to be able to tell you how to format the data.[20:22:54] *** amphiboid has quit IRC[20:23:29] *** alesan has quit IRC[20:23:37] <danny_osl> ha, why, they just have a varchar(40) that runs sha1() before entry[20:23:39] <danny_osl> anyway, I got it[20:23:42] <danny_osl> thank you for that sample program[20:23:49] *** Ulgar has joined ##java[20:23:53] *** ramza3 has joined ##java[20:24:02] <danny_osl> I don't understand why it was working before...but thank you for the help[20:24:25] <ramza3> anybody know anything about ant and 'subant' task? cant it accept multiple targets?[20:24:45] <ernimril> ramza3: who cares about ant?[20:24:51] <Sou|cutter> !seen grrrr[20:24:53] <Drone> I've never seen grrrr talk in ##java.[20:25:00] * Sou|cutter ponders[20:25:05] <ramza3> ernimril, what are you using maven now[20:25:20] *** fandeholly has joined ##java[20:25:23] <ernimril> ramza3: I like make or make/cron/sh[20:25:40] <ernimril> ramza3: I have only used ant when I was forced to...[20:25:51] <ramza3> ernimril, well then, no point in talking to you[20:27:11] *** Mactabilis has quit IRC[20:27:33] <paulweb515> ramza3: ? in what way ... doesn't ant build a dependency list of ordered targets, then sequentially execute them?[20:27:35] <roots-> ernimril++[20:27:38] <roots-> ant is so backwards[20:27:58] <roots-> make has a nice natural syntax with no overhead, executes shell commands straight, gnumake is packed with great functionality[20:28:07] *** Baloogan has quit IRC[20:28:18] <ramza3> paulweb515, http://ant.apache.org/manual/CoreTasks/subant.html from the docs there, it looks like I cant select one target at a time[20:28:19] <ernimril> roots-: might want to use a ~ in there or perhaps you just like being ignored by the bot also ;-)[20:28:22] <roots-> it can do substitutions, evaluate vars, call other makes[20:28:28] <roots-> ~ernimril[20:28:29] <javabot> roots-, I have no idea what ernimril is.[20:28:31] <roots-> ~ernimril++[20:28:31] <javabot> ernimril has a karma level of 33, roots-[20:29:11] <dingo001> i have 90K records, whats the fastest way to insert them into a database with java[20:29:16] <ernimril> simple makefile that I use at the moment for my web proxy: http://www.khelekore.org/~robo/Makefile2[20:29:30] <ernimril> dingo001: depends on how you want them in the database[20:29:43] <IMTheNachoMan> ~mysql[20:29:43] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, I have no idea what mysql is.[20:29:45] <ernimril> dingo001: preparedstatement and batch them in (autocommit off)[20:29:51] <dingo001> ok[20:29:57] <roots-> dingo001: jdbc has batch support[20:30:02] <vinse> ant is platform independent and makes one javac invocation for all targets[20:30:11] <roots-> but if you can use oracle's import tool on the shell or such[20:30:13] <vinse> that's its advantage over make for java, and why i use it[20:30:20] <dingo001> with prepared statement, does it do the insert all at one time[20:30:30] <dingo001> if yes, then wont the memory run out with 90K records[20:30:31] <dmlloyd|work> inserts are atomic[20:30:33] <roots-> vinse: what is a platform that gnumake doesnt run on , but ant does ?[20:30:33] <ernimril> vinse: my makefile also only make one call to javac[20:30:39] *** jvoorhis has left ##java[20:30:39] <dmlloyd|work> inserts are not autobatched[20:30:44] <dmlloyd|work> though you *can* batch[20:30:58] <roots-> every platform has unix command line tools[20:31:01] <dingo001> http://javaalmanac.com/egs/java.sql/InsertPs.html[20:31:07] <dingo001> something like this?[20:31:15] <dmlloyd|work> yes[20:31:25] <dingo001> what about the memory?[20:31:40] <dmlloyd|work> what about it[20:31:43] <vinse> roots-: you start having to do funny dances with path seperators to make a platform-indepedent make file[20:31:44] <ernimril> dingo001: you send data to the database server, it will write to disk and commit when you say so[20:31:55] <vinse> ernimril: same answer to you, that is ant's behavior by default[20:32:27] <ernimril> vinse: yes and it is makes default behaviour as well so that is no advantage for any one of them[20:32:28] <dingo001> how does it work, is it like, i create the ps, keep filling with data, when i say executeupdate, will it write all 90K at one time?[20:32:42] <dmlloyd|work> no![20:32:50] <ernimril> dingo001: you prepare, you addBatch lots of times, you commit[20:32:52] <dmlloyd|work> you prepare the statement, which compiles the sql[20:32:58] <dingo001> ok[20:33:00] <ernimril> dingo001: you prepare, you addBatch lots of times, you executeBatch you commit[20:33:02] <dmlloyd|work> every time you do execute it writes to the DB[20:33:15] *** danny_osl has left ##java[20:33:16] <ernimril> dingo001: note that not all databases allows batch jobs[20:33:16] <dingo001> ok, i gotta rtfm[20:33:27] <dingo001> does hsqldb allow?[20:33:33] <IMTheNachoMan> i need to be able to serialize a password to a file, can this be done safley?[20:33:56] <ernimril> IMTheNachoMan: depends on what you mean by safely...[20:33:57] <Sou|cutter> IMTheNachoMan: use a password hash[20:34:03] <IMTheNachoMan> there is no password object?[20:34:10] <IMTheNachoMan> Sou|cutter ?[20:34:24] <dingo001> http://hsqldb.sourceforge.net/doc/src/org/hsqldb/jdbc/jdbcPreparedStatement.html guess it does[20:34:27] <ernimril> dingo001: not sure I do not use it[20:34:55] <Sou|cutter> ~tell IMTheNachoMan about hash[20:34:56] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, I guess the factoid 'hashcode' might be appropriate:[20:34:58] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, hashcode is something you must override if you override equals. See http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/Books/effectivejava/Chapter3.pdf[20:34:59] <Sou|cutter> hmm[20:35:12] <vinse> heh[20:35:21] <vinse> here's a sweet line of code i just found in our code base[20:35:24] <vinse> getLiu().getClInfo().getPbInfo().getPb(getLiu());[20:35:37] <nmx> my brain hurts[20:35:47] <IMTheNachoMan> vinse and that does what[20:35:57] <nmx> it gets lead info, apparently[20:35:58] <vinse> gets a persistence broker :([20:36:05] <nmx> oh.[20:36:08] <nmx> THAT pb.[20:36:15] <Sou|cutter> well I don't know what you're doing, IMTheNachoMan, but rather than storing a password string it'd be better to store a hash so that the password itself cannot be determined (easily). If you're storing a password for a feature like 'remember my password', this may not be an option since hashes are one-way (and you'd need the actual password presumably)[20:37:00] <IMTheNachoMan> Sou|cutter user gonna set up a profile, with pass, and then be able to log in later[20:37:04] *** Oejet has joined ##java[20:37:09] <IMTheNachoMan> Sou|cutter so hash might work[20:37:35] *** ractrev has joined ##java[20:37:40] <nmx> IMTheNachoMan: do you need to send the password to the server, or send a hash of the password to the server?[20:37:44] <Sou|cutter> IMTheNachoMan: Yeah. Then when you need to compare the password to the input, just put the input through the same hash, and if the results are the same you have a match[20:38:23] <ernimril> IMTheNachoMan: you still only want to allow the admin to read the password hash file though[20:38:40] <ernimril> IMTheNachoMan: so file systems permissions are not to be forgotten[20:38:41] <nmx> are we talking about client side or server side?[20:38:53] <Sou|cutter> who knows?[20:39:00] <ernimril> it does not matter[20:39:02] <nmx> IMTheNachoMan knows, presumably :-P[20:39:05] <nmx> it does matter[20:39:24] <nmx> if the server is expecting the actual password, saving a hash on the client isn't going to do you any good[20:39:36] <IMTheNachoMan> wow[20:39:38] <IMTheNachoMan> this is getting complex[20:39:43] <IMTheNachoMan> il have to look more into it later[20:39:48] <IMTheNachoMan> i wish i could just use a DB[20:39:50] <IMTheNachoMan> but i cant so i shant[20:40:01] <ernimril> IMTheNachoMan: why can't you ?[20:40:14] <IMTheNachoMan> ernimril i cant install anything on the server at work, only use what is already there[20:40:21] <ernimril> IMTheNachoMan: you know the meaning of the word "cant"?[20:40:43] <IMTheNachoMan> ernimril i thought i do, but i have a feeling your going to tell me the correct meaning[20:41:27] <IMTheNachoMan> im not allowed to[20:41:28] <IMTheNachoMan> how is that[20:41:31] *** [-D7-] has quit IRC[20:41:38] <ernimril> IMTheNachoMan: it is some sort of singing or speaking, not sure, wait...[20:42:01] <Sou|cutter> IMTheNachoMan: you could embed a db[20:42:06] <Sou|cutter> in your program, I mean[20:42:16] *** Mott is now known as Mot[20:42:22] <ernimril> IMTheNachoMan: use an java database?[20:43:07] <ernimril> IMTheNachoMan: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cant[20:44:30] <IMTheNachoMan> ernimril what you mean embed a dv?[20:44:31] <IMTheNachoMan> db?[20:44:34] <IMTheNachoMan> il have to see what you mean late[20:44:44] <IMTheNachoMan> right now i gota goto work, thank you for the help, peace[20:45:26] *** asac_ has joined ##java[20:46:06] <Stork> how come when i try in firefox and in java i get different content headers[20:46:27] <ernimril> Stork: ?[20:46:43] <Stork> erm[20:47:00] <Stork> something wrong with my program, i'm trying to get it to automatically upload some text to nopaste[20:47:47] <dingo001> is there a way to specify the batch size in a preparedstatement[20:47:52] <Stork> but i won't do that; nevermind[20:48:16] <Stork> ~java db[20:48:17] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'genericity in java 1.4' might be appropriate:[20:48:19] <javabot> Stork, genericity in java 1.4 is The 1.4 jvm does not support genericity and the 1.5 javac does not produce 1.4-compatible bytecode from sources using genericity. However, there is an undocumented "-target jsr14" flag which combined with "-source 1.5" does what you need. Hopefully.[20:48:22] <Stork> ~java databases[20:48:23] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'genericity in java 1.4' might be appropriate:[20:48:23] <Stork> ~java database[20:48:25] <javabot> Stork, genericity in java 1.4 is The 1.4 jvm does not support genericity and the 1.5 javac does not produce 1.4-compatible bytecode from sources using genericity. However, there is an undocumented "-target jsr14" flag which combined with "-source 1.5" does what you need. Hopefully.[20:48:27] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'genericity in java 1.4' might be appropriate:[20:48:29] <javabot> Stork, genericity in java 1.4 is The 1.4 jvm does not support genericity and the 1.5 javac does not produce 1.4-compatible bytecode from sources using genericity. However, there is an undocumented "-target jsr14" flag which combined with "-source 1.5" does what you need. Hopefully.[20:48:35] <ernimril> dingo001: you count as and do it manually "for(int i = 0; i < 1000; i++) { ... ps.addBatch(); } ps.executeBatch()[20:48:45] <Stork> i shan't do that again[20:49:10] <ernimril> Stork: you can pm the bot and ask it as much as you like without disturbin the channel...[20:49:19] <Stork> sorry, i'll do that in future[20:49:48] <Stork> since the bot doesn't have any ideas, do you?[20:50:13] *** alex_f has quit IRC[20:50:16] *** ramza3 has quit IRC[20:50:31] <ernimril> Stork: http://hsqldb.org/[20:51:35] <Sou|cutter> there's also derby[20:52:00] <Bevin> Stork: One$db is worth a look too[20:52:06] *** Oejet has quit IRC[20:52:07] <Bevin> Derby is nice but a tad slow[20:52:17] *** swperman has quit IRC[20:52:43] *** alex_f has joined ##java[20:52:52] <Stork> thanks[20:53:36] <Sou|cutter> there's berkleydb if you aren't married to sql[20:56:20] *** caee has joined ##java[20:56:31] <Cow_woC> Stork: db4o[20:56:46] *** imperio59 has joined ##java[20:56:47] <Cow_woC> it's a OODBMS (so again, no SQL) and Java[20:56:59] *** asac has quit IRC[20:57:00] *** asac_ is now known as asac[20:57:04] <Cow_woC> it's an embedded DB so it's also very fast[20:57:08] <Stork> i don't understand what they do[20:57:15] <Cow_woC> (they also do client/server but they specialize in embedded)[20:57:48] *** kaylee_ has quit IRC[20:57:51] <caee> is it an easy way to create an ArrayList that containts the characters a-z and the number 0,1,2,3 ?[20:58:26] <ernimril> caee: why do you need it?[20:58:36] <imperio59> Hi, can someone explain to me why when i split the following string "255.255.255.255" like so: myString.split(".",4) the returning array contains { "", "", "", ".255.255.255" }[20:58:42] <ernimril> caee: and yes, it is easy[20:59:24] <imperio59> ...[20:59:28] <Sou|cutter> imperio59: well, in regex a period is a wildcard[20:59:39] <imperio59> would \. work?[20:59:45] *** Stork has quit IRC[20:59:48] <caee> ernimril: so i dont need to type all the a,b,c,...,z ? how can i do it easyer?[21:00:03] <ernimril> caee: no, step back, why do you need it[21:00:04] *** Stork has joined ##java[21:00:09] <ernimril> caee: just loop[21:00:12] *** jk__ has joined ##java[21:00:15] *** fandeholly has quit IRC[21:00:16] <paulweb515> imperio59: maybe "\\."[21:00:30] <imperio59> heh, yea the compiler didnt like \.[21:00:32] <Sou|cutter> imperio59: what paulweb515 said[21:00:37] <imperio59> trying \\.[21:00:38] <Sou|cutter> ~paulweb515++[21:00:40] <javabot> paulweb515 has a karma level of 1, Sou|cutter[21:00:52] <imperio59> oh my, beautiful[21:00:56] <imperio59> it works[21:01:11] <paulweb515> yeah![21:01:12] <imperio59> now why did i miss the line in the doc that said . is a regex wildcard? sigh[21:01:13] <caee> ernimril: hm.. loop, how can java know that b comes after a? Im just trying to make a stupid crypt.. so i need a a-z,0-9 array[21:01:34] <nmx> imperio59: try cahnging the 4 to 0[21:01:57] <nmx> imperio59: or -3[21:02:07] <nmx> oh ok heh[21:02:09] <imperio59> 4 works...[21:02:10] * nmx needs to catch up[21:02:11] <imperio59> ^^[21:02:32] <ernimril> caee: java knows, characters are just small numbers (mapped to some figures)[21:03:01] <ernimril> caee: for (char c = 'a'; c <= 'z'; c++) { ... }[21:03:02] <dmlloyd|work> not so small these days :)[21:03:06] <nmx> ~tell caee about ascii[21:03:07] <javabot> caee, the ascii table can be found at http://www.utoronto.ca/webdocs/HTMLdocs/NewHTML/iso_table.html[21:03:23] <ernimril> dmlloyd|work: depends on your definintion of big and small...[21:03:25] <dmlloyd|work> beware that jdk 1.5 characters are UTF-16, and so two chars might be needed to represent a single codepoint[21:04:10] <Sou|cutter> dmlloyd|work: somehow I don't think that will come up in this case, but nice[21:04:45] <caee> hm, cool.. thanks :)[21:07:47] * paulweb515 wanders off[21:12:49] *** hashman has joined ##java[21:13:01] <Stork> caee: #crypto[21:13:15] <Stork> for crypto-related matters[21:13:17] <Stork> if you want[21:14:27] *** quiet has joined ##java[21:15:20] <quiet> hey guys.. i want to start learning java development... as well as perl/cgi.. any suggestions as to the best/easiest distro to get that set up on?[21:17:01] <Stork> what do you mean distro?[21:17:06] <Stork> there's only one java[21:18:20] <vinse> i believe he means what linux distro would be best to run perl/cgi and java[21:18:33] <Stork> i see[21:19:10] <quiet> yes[21:19:13] <quiet> that's what i mean.[21:19:23] <quiet> I would prefer to NOT use Fedora..[21:19:32] <nmx> so use a different one[21:19:57] <nmx> neither perl nor java care what distribution of linux you're using[21:20:06] <Sou|cutter> quiet: just learn using a real sdk, not gcj[21:20:38] <quiet> well, it is definitely easier to set up on some distro's than others.. i guess that's what i'm asking.[21:21:07] <quiet> I have never really been a programmer.. i can do XHTML, CSS, some PHP and ColdFusion... but nothing that's really "programming"[21:21:50] <quiet> I have several O'Reilly books on Java and Perl... that's why I'm interested in learning it...[21:22:10] <quiet> and marketability... of course.[21:22:45] <dmlloyd|work> java is a language that requires you to understand software development principles... such as how you'd learn in school. Perl and php let you scrape by. Java is not so gracious.[21:22:53] <nmx> quiet: as for java, it does not matter what distribution you're using. unpack the tar file. set your path. begin.[21:22:57] *** ShutterBC has joined ##java[21:23:23] <ShutterBC> 'afternoon[21:23:34] <ShutterBC> I have a little project management question, if anyone's alive in here[21:23:48] <dmlloyd|work> don't we all[21:23:55] <ShutterBC> lol[21:23:57] <ShutterBC> true[21:23:58] <quiet> dmlloyd|work, that was kind of my point. :)[21:24:39] <nmx> i'm not convinced java is the best language to give to a beginner[21:24:56] *** ractrev has quit IRC[21:24:56] <dmlloyd|work> I think beginners should start with assembly language[21:25:00] <dmlloyd|work> teach them some perspective[21:25:04] <nmx> i could see the reasoning for that[21:25:25] <dmlloyd|work> start on some little architecture, like 6502 or z80 or something[21:25:31] <dmlloyd|work> work your way up to RISC (ARM maybe)[21:25:38] <dmlloyd|work> then x86 in all its horror[21:25:43] <nmx> yeah, one of our intro cs courses was ARM assembly / architecture[21:25:49] <dmlloyd|work> excellent[21:25:50] <Stork> i think it's best to start with a big language[21:25:56] <dmlloyd|work> I think you're nuts[21:25:56] <ricky_clarkson> Murrrrgh.[21:25:56] <nmx> but the actual cs 101 was java[21:26:13] <Stork> ricky awakes[21:26:19] * Stork hides the booze[21:26:21] *** wcstok has joined ##java[21:26:29] <ricky_clarkson> = 19:18:57 * ricky_clarkson goes home.[21:26:31] <dmlloyd|work> if you teach people on a high-level language, they'll never learn how to utilize data structures properly, or how to write efficient code[21:26:32] <nmx> i already knew how to program long before college, so i skipped the 100s, i dunno how i would have done being thrown into assembly from the beginning[21:26:33] <ricky_clarkson> = 20:27:13 < ricky_clarkson> Murrrrgh.[21:26:48] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: I already have a merlot open.[21:26:53] * dmlloyd|work -> home[21:26:58] <Stork> i'm about to get myself a beer[21:27:04] <sateh> hi[21:27:11] * sateh has a question :-)[21:27:16] <Stork> don't we all[21:27:18] <Stork> fire away[21:27:44] <sateh> when i see a (big) piece of code for financial transactions and calculations that uses floats all over the place, should i worry?[21:27:53] <ricky_clarkson> dmlloyd|work: I think trying to write efficient code causes more problems than it solves now.[21:27:57] <ricky_clarkson> sateh: Hell yeah.[21:27:59] <Stork> depends if you wrote it or not[21:28:06] <sateh> a contractor did[21:28:09] <Sou|cutter> sateh: If it's a real world financial program, yes[21:28:13] <sateh> the issue is sensitive :-)[21:28:41] *** zackk has quit IRC[21:28:51] <ricky_clarkson> So that's where my Paypal money went, the IEEE creamed it.[21:28:51] <nmx> just beware if you see "initechAccount.send(remainder, swissBankAccount);"[21:28:56] <sateh> i see floats in the model beans and in the calculation logic, combined with casts to doubles and a lot of Math.round crap[21:29:50] <sateh> i have no concrete proof yet that this can cost money, but i think just the fact that floats are used to store amounts and do calculations says enough right?[21:29:55] <sateh> beginner mistake[21:30:05] <Sou|cutter> ricky_clarkson: I think you take for granted that you're a bit clueful about writing code... I've seen some abhorrantly inefficient code that would, for example, take several seconds to sort a list of less than 100 items.[21:31:21] <ricky_clarkson> sateh: Well, rig up some test cases.[21:32:06] <ricky_clarkson> Sou|cutter: I'm not sure I'd be able to write that code without some empty for loops.[21:33:27] <imperio59> How do i accept a connection with a Socket, once it is bound?[21:33:31] <imperio59> there's no accept() method[21:33:32] <ShutterBC> speaking on that line (of efficiency), I always thought it interesting that cell phones support Java and not some lower-level language.[21:33:33] *** depaulis has joined ##java[21:33:44] <sateh> imperio59, try a ServerSocket[21:33:45] <ricky_clarkson> ~networking[21:33:46] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, networking is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/networking[21:33:49] <imperio59> thanks[21:34:04] <ricky_clarkson> ShutterBC: Mobile phones tend to 'support' C.[21:34:10] <sateh> that will be 0.25000012 cents please[21:34:13] * sateh thinks in floats[21:34:15] *** Lars_G has joined ##java[21:34:20] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: You owe me one.[21:34:28] <depaulis> ~comparator[21:34:28] <javabot> depaulis, comparator is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/collections/interfaces/order.html[21:34:52] <Sou|cutter> ricky_clarkson: it's good to know data structures and algorithms[21:35:10] *** MrPrimate has joined ##java[21:35:16] <ricky_clarkson> Sou|cutter: That doesn't imply low-level programming.[21:35:38] <Sou|cutter> ok[21:35:55] <ShutterBC> ricky_clarkson: Yeah... I haven't figured out how to get anything other than Java MIDlets into my Nokia 6820. Only the newer ones (symbian OS) phones openly support C[21:36:18] *** kasper has quit IRC[21:36:21] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Hola, como estas?[21:36:22] <ricky_clarkson> Well, they run C programs, but the vendor probably prevents you adding your own.[21:36:29] <ricky_clarkson> Phone OSs are remarkably shaky.[21:36:37] <ShutterBC> yeah, I'm noticing[21:36:40] <ricky_clarkson> ShutterBC: And Symbian supports C++.[21:36:45] <ricky_clarkson> Not really C, afaik.[21:36:59] <ShutterBC> ok[21:37:06] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: I like PalmOS a lot.[21:37:20] <ricky_clarkson> No memory managemnet on most phones, so you can actually read and write from and to the zeroth memory address.[21:37:37] <Lars_G> On Smart Phones, you can normally add your own programs as native code for the OS be it SYmbian, PalmOS or WinCE.[21:37:57] *** shad0wcat has joined ##java[21:38:04] <Lars_G> On normal phones, only two general forms of adding code exist. J2ME and (almost completely defunct) Mophun (based on C)[21:38:39] <ShutterBC> Thanks, Lars_G[21:38:44] * ricky_clarkson TRAPs Lars_G and hits him over the head with that big red book.[21:38:56] <Lars_G> Most phones, smart and not nowadays support J2ME but as I am sure Panda could tell you if he was here, implementations vary so widely you could hardly consider it "portable"[21:39:23] * Lars_G strangles ricky_clarkson[21:39:33] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: You haven't called me back bitch, did my voice scare you away?[21:40:20] <ShutterBC> ok... so here's the question I have -- it's not so technical as it's approach -- if you have a general project in mind don't you usually keep platform and toolkits in mind at an early point?[21:40:23] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: And before you let your tongue fly about PalmOS, know that I have a deep love for PalmOS and I don't tend to be rational while discussing it.[21:40:55] <Lars_G> ShutterBC: Not exactly or not me at least. First I choose language and libraries to be used depending on my requirements.[21:41:05] <Lars_G> Then, based on that language, deploy platform, and libraries, I choose a toolset[21:41:29] <Lars_G> Btw give thanks you're codding for a Nokia and not a Sony Ericsson.[21:41:50] <Lars_G> SE are cooler devices, but Sony has a long standing approach of treating developers like dirt.[21:41:59] <Lars_G> Well developers, and clients too.[21:42:03] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Bad timing, that's all.[21:42:13] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: So you still love me?[21:42:23] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: OOps, don't let JavaGeek know, I think he has a crush on me,.[21:42:30] <ShutterBC> I'm working on a team project (for a class) where we'd like to basically make a mesh network out of Bluetooth-enabled devices. We're hitting conflict whether we decide on a conceptual application (supported feature / interface) or platform / toolkit first... I kind of thought you need to keep both in mind at the same time[21:42:33] <ricky_clarkson> No, that's a headlock.[21:43:03] <ricky_clarkson> ShutterBC: Supported features and interface.[21:43:09] *** wms has quit IRC[21:43:10] <Lars_G> ShutterBC: Good luck, accessing bluetooth from installable code is not something most vendors allow easily.[21:43:12] <ricky_clarkson> The requirements come first, at least initially.[21:43:26] * Lars_G nods sagely.[21:43:46] *** auv has quit IRC[21:43:48] <ShutterBC> yeah... well I was hoping to basically implement gnutella protocol as a project[21:44:03] <Lars_G> Good luck[21:44:05] <ShutterBC> and that already kind of defines a particular feature set[21:44:17] <ShutterBC> yeah, this might be tough[21:44:24] <ShutterBC> I'm not sure how much work it would involve yet[21:44:29] <Lars_G> I'd personally go with J2ME wich I like more, but that'd require the phone to implement JSR 82, which old models don't.[21:44:32] <nmx> Lars_G: sony does treat customers like dirt. i have a digital camera that doesn't work under windows 64 bit. i asked if there was a solution and they just said "no, we don't provide 64 bit support". like it's THAT hard to write a driver[21:44:56] <ShutterBC> but then there's JXTA... which is supposed to be a more general framework for P2P java apps[21:44:56] <Lars_G> nmx: Worse has happened. My dad is a video professional specially regarding digital video.[21:45:10] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: That's awful![21:45:10] <nmx> Lars_G: oh i know, that's a minor quibble really but it's obnoxious[21:45:14] <ShutterBC> so I guess I'm just getting lost in the choices and I need to map out what things are[21:45:21] <Lars_G> nmx: He told me, when Sony released theyr first really professional digital camera for studio use, it had BIG audio quality troubles.[21:45:37] *** hashman has quit IRC[21:45:52] <Lars_G> nmx: Sony quickly fixed it, and instead of exchanging the cameras to theyr faithfull clients, released a new model with "improved audio" to the market.[21:45:58] <Lars_G> so typically Sony.[21:46:21] *** quiet has quit IRC[21:46:21] *** Stork has quit IRC[21:46:24] <Lars_G> ShutterBC: I'm not so sure how easy it'll be to cram JXTA into a phone dude....[21:46:24] <ricky_clarkson> Yeah, I went for a Toshiba laptop this time instead of a Vaio.[21:46:33] <cyclone> nmx: It would require Sony to pay SOMEONE to implement another driver.[21:46:35] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: I went for something better, an Apple.[21:46:36] *** Stork has joined ##java[21:46:50] <nmx> Lars_G: that is very obnoxious[21:46:53] <cyclone> and they are a programmer.. so It will also require masses amount of IRCing and Blog reading.[21:47:02] <cyclone> Which makes the hours rise up for a simple driver.[21:47:05] <Lars_G> nmx: What kind of camera? end user or professional?[21:47:07] <nmx> cyclone: i guarantee it would not be a difficult or time consuming task[21:47:16] <nmx> Lars_G: just end user[21:47:20] <Lars_G> ok.[21:47:22] <ricky_clarkson> cyclone: I like your style.[21:47:34] <ShutterBC> Lars_G: I think I'll settle for emulation at this point[21:47:41] <Lars_G> if it were professional I'd have called foul, many studios are bound to use 64 bit.[21:47:46] <cyclone> I love my job ;)[21:47:59] <nmx> Lars_G: yeah, but still, athlon 64s are being marketed as desktop machines[21:48:13] <ricky_clarkson> I bet pair programming makes IRCing and blog-reading harder.[21:48:22] <nmx> Lars_G: and simple devices like a usb mass storage device won't even work on the thing in windows[21:48:56] <cyclone> hehe[21:49:13] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Nah, I IRC and my coworker reads blogs.[21:49:24] <cyclone> Lars_G: I am about the same way.[21:49:35] <cyclone> Except sometimes my coworker reads my ircing OVER my shoulder.[21:49:45] *** fuso has quit IRC[21:49:52] <cyclone> then when I turn my head.. they continue to type in vulgar stuff to all the channels I am on.[21:50:36] <nmx> i find irc useful even when i'm not actively using it for help solving a problem, but in terms of random tidbits to be picked up[21:50:51] <sockmonk> nmx: same here[21:51:21] <Lars_G> cyclone: If mine tried, I'd poke his eyes out.[21:51:36] <Lars_G> nmx: Same here.[21:51:46] <Lars_G> nmx: And blogs are good for showing us new ideas or paths.[21:51:47] <cyclone> Lars_G: Then I'd have a whiney co-worker.. getting blood all over my keyboard.[21:52:05] <Lars_G> cyclone: Blood on my machine? no way, they'd be shoved away simply.[21:52:07] *** synic has joined ##java[21:52:16] * synic heard someone was talking about him in here[21:52:17] <Lars_G> And what do I care if he whines, I work with my earphones on[21:52:17] <cyclone> Lars_G: hehe[21:52:18] <ernimril> Lars_G: better to cut his fingers, that way he will have problem repeating[21:52:38] * cyclone points at synic. "Evil coworker"[21:52:39] <cyclone> ;)[21:52:45] <synic> muahaha[21:52:45] <Lars_G> ernimril: With the new A/C I'd only need to tap them, and they'd shatter away[21:53:04] <Lars_G> cyclone: Mine's worse, he codes only ASP in Visual Studio....[21:53:15] <ernimril> Lars_G: remember what happen in T2 after they tried that?[21:53:16] * synic shudders[21:53:46] *** Esaj has joined ##java[21:53:51] <cyclone> Lars_G: You win ;)[21:53:59] <cyclone> Mine actually got me into Java.[21:54:06] <Lars_G> Nice of him.[21:54:11] <Lars_G> Time to get you out.[21:54:14] * cyclone pats synic on the head.[21:54:35] <Lars_G> Java is on a very very wrong path.[21:54:37] <cyclone> Lars_G: Tried.. I even go to the meetings. man java owns me[21:54:40] <Lars_G> We need to bail while we can.[21:54:44] <synic> thanks.... that's all I wanted.[21:54:59] <synic> :P[21:56:14] *** paulweb515_ has joined ##java[21:58:56] *** Ferret has left ##java[21:58:57] <imperio59> Can someone explain to me why not all of my components will show up in my JFrame until i call pack()?[21:59:09] *** ocx32 has joined ##java[21:59:16] <imperio59> I have mutliple panels, do i need to call repaint() on all of them or...?[21:59:39] <ernimril> imperio59: you have to validate the layout[21:59:47] <ernimril> imperio59: pack will do that...[22:00:30] <ocx32> hi, how can i import a package? i am writing import mypackage.* where the package is in the current directory but i am getting a compilation error: mypackage does not exists[22:01:09] <imperio59> ernimiril problem is, pack resizes down everything, how do i prevent that?[22:01:22] <ernimril> imperio59: you use a sane layout manager[22:01:28] <ocx32> LocalProxy.java:2: package Market does not exist[22:01:29] <ocx32> import Market.*;[22:01:31] <ernimril> imperio59: what are you using now? null layout?[22:01:40] <imperio59> Grid[22:01:47] <imperio59> vaidate() works more like i want, hmm[22:01:51] <ocx32> i have writen a file market.java and declared it as a package...[22:02:12] <ernimril> imperio59: Grid is not a very nice layout manager...[22:02:23] <imperio59> Flow doesn't do what i want it to do..[22:02:49] <ocx32> can anyone help me?[22:03:12] <imperio59> I've never been friends with the layout managers... :/[22:03:31] <imperio59> i'd rather be able to freely set my element's positions and lock my window size but meh[22:03:32] <ernimril> ~tell ocx32 about package[22:03:32] <javabot> ocx32, package is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/java/interpack/packages.html and some example http://javafaq.mine.nu/lookup?254[22:03:51] *** Lars_G has left ##java[22:06:31] <ocx32> ernimril: i read the faq, how can i import a package in the current directory?[22:08:04] <caee> how can i check what type a class is?[22:08:17] <caee> i mean object..[22:08:18] *** ulver has joined ##java[22:08:31] * cheeser bows.[22:08:41] <caee> like if ( getClass( object) == int ) { bla}[22:08:42] <ulver> wella all![22:10:55] <Stork> ~er4[22:10:55] <javabot> Stork, I have no idea what er4 is.[22:12:06] *** shad0wcat has quit IRC[22:12:16] <Stork> ~being a good bot[22:12:16] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'help javabot' might be appropriate:[22:12:17] <ricky_clarkson> caee: instanceof[22:12:18] <javabot> see 'help'.[22:12:29] *** cybereal has joined ##java[22:14:24] <caee> like if ( getClass( object) == int ) { bla}[22:14:56] <cybereal> Are you wanting 'instanceof' ?[22:15:44] *** NOthsouth has joined ##java[22:17:09] *** icestorm has joined ##java[22:18:41] *** ocx32 has quit IRC[22:20:28] <depaulis> i != 0 ? a : b <--- This means: if ( i != 0 ) a else b correct?[22:21:05] <cybereal> yup[22:21:06] <cyclone> depaulis: yeah[22:21:08] <depaulis> thanks[22:21:22] <depaulis> just never use the ? operator[22:21:39] <vinse> caee: if you want to check if it's a specific type you can do, e.g. myObject instanceof String ... if you have no idea what it is and want to find out, you do myObject.getClass()[22:21:50] *** OMFG_ has quit IRC[22:23:10] *** soulreaper has joined ##java[22:23:37] *** pchapman has quit IRC[22:27:26] *** npmccallum-work has joined ##java[22:27:43] <NOthsouth> Can someone please give me some URL for Traning jav exercises? our something like it .. ?[22:27:47] <caee> vinse : but if i use getClass() i get a string.. and then i have to check on a string?[22:27:52] *** deedaw has joined ##java[22:28:02] <caee> and i read somewhere i should try to avoid instanceof[22:28:08] <ernimril> caee: you co not get a String, you get a Class[22:28:35] <ernimril> caee: you should avoid it if you can[22:28:42] <caee> so how can i check a variable that it is a int or a string?[22:28:44] <ricky_clarkson> caee: Yes, it's better to use OOP.[22:28:52] <vinse> caee: getClass() returns a string?[22:28:59] <vinse> you sure?[22:29:01] <cybereal> Does java have any standard library method that does urlencoding?[22:29:05] <ricky_clarkson> caee: You look at ita declaration.[22:29:32] <ernimril> cybereal: yes[22:29:54] <vinse> caee: you could never mix up a string and int ahead of time, as int is not an object, and code that can confuse the two will not compile[22:30:00] <caee> yes, it returns "class java.lang.String"[22:30:08] <cybereal> ernimril: I just found URLEncoder class, is that the right thing to look at?[22:30:18] <ricky_clarkson> caee: How do you know that?[22:30:26] <ernimril> cybereal: yes[22:30:33] *** Jax has joined ##java[22:30:39] <cybereal> thanks :)[22:30:43] <Jax> hi i'm getting user input with: BufferedReader br = new BufferedReader(new InputStreamReader(System.in));[22:30:50] <caee> i just did a System.out.println()... ?[22:30:51] *** diro has joined ##java[22:30:58] <Jax> now how can i use a try, catch, finally to check user input until a certain word is entered?[22:31:04] <Jax> i.e until the input is "jax"[22:31:05] <ricky_clarkson> caee: which converts it to a string.[22:31:11] <caee> oh..[22:31:13] <Stork> Jax: just use a while loop[22:31:31] <caee> ricky_clarkson: then how can i make a if statement on it?[22:31:35] <Jax> like: try { while(br.readLine() != "Jax") { ?[22:31:38] <Stork> while(!lastInput.equals("Jax")) { //try{..}catch }[22:31:49] <ricky_clarkson> caee: What are you actually trying to do?[22:32:01] <ricky_clarkson> caee: I was on the phone, can concentrate more now.[22:32:07] <Jax> hm[22:32:13] <vinse> ricky_clarkson: i believe he's trying to avoid reading a tutorial[22:32:20] <vinse> but i cant be sure[22:32:35] *** aktinos has quit IRC[22:32:36] <ricky_clarkson> vinse: I don't want to learn to drive, I'm just trying to get to the airport.[22:32:38] <ricky_clarkson> .. officer.[22:32:43] <caee> ricky_clarkson: im looping trough an ArrayList, and making an if/else on the object types..[22:32:45] <Stork> lol, ricky, cliche[22:32:50] <ricky_clarkson> caee: Why?[22:33:15] <caee> ricky_clarkson: the ArrayList contains both String and int.. so i want to do different thing on String and int[22:33:25] <ricky_clarkson> caee: An ArrayList cannot contain ints.[22:33:35] <vinse> caee: it cant contain String and int ... it contains Strings and Integers[22:33:47] <imperio59> I love GridbagLayout[22:33:57] <vinse> imperio59: THEN WHY DONT YOU MARRY IT?[22:34:00] <vinse> ack[22:34:00] <imperio59> Steep lurning curve but i'm never going back to GridLayout ^^[22:34:07] <caee> yes, it contain String and int[22:34:08] <imperio59> I might :)[22:34:11] <vinse> sorry i was transported to 2nd grade[22:34:15] <lunk> imperio59: heh, it's not that bad if you think of them as HTML tables[22:34:15] <ricky_clarkson> caee: No, it do not.[22:34:17] <vinse> caee: no, it doesn[22:34:24] <imperio59> vinse: we all have our moments...[22:34:26] <imperio59> O.o[22:34:38] <vinse> imperio59: ;)[22:34:48] <cybereal> Bah! Should I turn +'s into %20 before sending the data to a client that is MOST LIKELY javascript, or should I convert the received string...[22:35:07] <diro> perhaps he uses autoboxing... so the confusion[22:35:25] <ricky_clarkson> caee: What makes you think the List can (or does) contain ints?[22:35:26] <Jax> i don't quite understand Stork[22:35:33] <ricky_clarkson> Jax: Nobody does.[22:35:34] <Jax> how do i invoke the request for input again?[22:35:47] <ricky_clarkson> Jax: The same way you did the first time?[22:35:53] <Jax> BufferedReader br = new BufferedReader(new InputStreamReader(System.in));[22:35:54] <Jax> again?[22:36:01] <Jax> gives me Duplicate local var declaration[22:36:06] <ricky_clarkson> That doesn't look like a request for input.[22:36:08] <caee> ricky_clarkson:[22:36:09] <caee> ArrayList test;[22:36:10] <caee> test = new ArrayList(); test.add("foo"); test.add(1);[22:36:17] <caee> works fine..[22:36:28] <diro> ok, you currently use autoboxing[22:36:29] <ricky_clarkson> caee: Ok. The 1 is converted to an Integer.[22:36:32] <vinse> caee: 1 is getting converted to an Integer[22:36:32] * cheeser nods sagely.[22:36:46] <ricky_clarkson> caee: Is there any reason to have one List containing Strings and Integers, rather than one containing Strings, and another containing Integers?[22:36:48] *** Isil`Zha has joined ##java[22:36:53] *** warpzero has joined ##java[22:36:55] <caee> is it a different between int and Integer?[22:37:02] <ricky_clarkson> caee: Yesp.[22:37:03] <vinse> caee: hi, how r u?[22:37:05] <ricky_clarkson> Er, yep.[22:37:10] <vinse> a big one[22:37:17] <warpzero> is there some JVM option that restricts file handles internally?[22:37:24] <ricky_clarkson> ~jvm options[22:37:24] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, jvm options is http://blogs.sun.com/roller/resources/watt/jvm-options-list.html[22:37:31] <caee> hm..[22:37:42] <ricky_clarkson> cyclone: A blog for your cow-orker. ^^[22:37:57] *** fransemail has joined ##java[22:38:04] <fransemail> hello to everibody[22:38:06] <cyclone> ricky_clarkson: ahh cool.. Thank you sir :)[22:38:09] <ricky_clarkson> ciao a tutti.[22:38:14] <ernimril> warpzero: restircts in what way?[22:38:20] <caee> the thing is that i try to make a crypttext thing..so i need to have a CryptTabel that contains both String and Integer[22:38:26] <warpzero> ernimril: maximum number of open filehandles[22:38:36] <ricky_clarkson> caee: What's a CryptTabel?[22:38:38] <warpzero> ricky_clarkson: i don't see anything in that list[22:38:40] <ernimril> warpzero: just set rlimits[22:38:44] <fransemail> anyone may help me? I've a problem with classloader[22:38:56] <fransemail> I want to load a jar at runtime[22:38:58] <ricky_clarkson> warpzero: Maybe not, but that's the jvm options, for your perusal.[22:39:08] <caee> ricky_clarkson: a-z and 0-9, but the 0-9 is not ordered[22:39:11] <warpzero> ernimril: ?[22:39:21] <ernimril> warpzero: unix/linux?[22:39:25] <ricky_clarkson> fransemail: Load classes from a jar, or read a jar's entries individually?[22:39:33] <ricky_clarkson> caee: Why not treat them all as Strings?[22:39:33] <warpzero> yeh[22:39:43] <ernimril> warpzero: ulimit/rlimit[22:39:48] <caee> hm.. i guess i can do that[22:39:52] <ernimril> warpzero: check the docs[22:39:56] <warpzero> enimril oh i know how to use those[22:40:04] <warpzero> i was wondering if there was something internal to java going on here[22:40:14] <fransemail> ricky_clarson: load classes from a jar and make change permanent in systemclassloader[22:40:19] <caee> or no.. because i have one algorith for the strings, and one for the integers[22:40:21] <ernimril> warpzero: why do you want it to? the OS can do it[22:40:34] <ernimril> warpzero: the OS have a better view of things in this case[22:40:38] <warpzero> ernimril: i keep hitting a limit that i don't want to hit[22:40:50] <ricky_clarkson> caee: Ok, explain the problem (not the solution), i.e., your requirements.[22:41:10] <ernimril> warpzero: then fix your leaking code. Make sure you call close() in a finally-block[22:41:42] <warpzero> its not my code :-/[22:41:56] <warpzero> i wouldn't write java AHAHAHAHAHA[22:42:04] <ernimril> warpzero: then file a bug to your code provider[22:42:09] <Jax> ok Stork so i did: while(!br.readLine().equals("Jax")) { System.out.print("Enter your name: "); br.readLine(); } but now how do i do: "Thanks for your name, <name>" after the while?[22:42:17] *** fuso has joined ##java[22:42:25] <Jax> i.e how can i fetch the current value without calling readLine again[22:42:33] <pr3d4t0r> Hola.[22:42:48] <vinse> shalom[22:42:55][22:42:55] <ricky_clarkson> javabot: You are not storing the read line.[22:42:55] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'cannot resolve symbol' might be appropriate:[22:42:57] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, cannot resolve symbol is http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CannotResolveSymbol[22:43:05] <ricky_clarkson> Er..[22:43:06] <Jax> ricky_clarkson yeah exatly..[22:43:10] <Jax> but how do i put that in a while?[22:43:19] <ricky_clarkson> Jax: Use a do..while.[22:43:20] <Jax> because if i do: while(myVar = br.readLine()...[22:43:25] <Erica> looking for ms word feature document template for software design[22:43:25] <Jax> it will always be true[22:43:26] <Stork> what a loser[22:43:27] *** Stork has quit IRC[22:43:29] <pr3d4t0r> Jax: Wi gets?[22:43:31] <ricky_clarkson> Inline assignment is an antipattern.[22:43:41] <fransemail> ricky_clarkson: have you any proposal for my problem?[22:43:46] <Jax> Wi gets?[22:43:48] <Jax> ah[22:43:49] <pr3d4t0r> Jax: Phonetical Swiss-German, sorry.[22:43:51] <Jax> sorry lol[22:43:59] <cheeser> wie gehts?[22:44:02] <Jax> wie geits ;)[22:44:05] <cheeser> ah[22:44:09] <cheeser> been a while.[22:44:09] *** Stork has joined ##java[22:44:10] <Jax> depending on where you are from i gues hehe[22:44:15] <Jax> wie gehts is real german heh[22:44:22] <Jax> he's trying to speak SWISS-german[22:44:26] <ricky_clarkson> fransemail: Yes, use tab completion so that I notice you talking to me (my surname is clarkson, not clarson).[22:44:30] <cheeser> gotcha[22:44:50] <ricky_clarkson> fransemail: The system class loader *is* a URLClassLoader, and you can modify the classpath in that.[22:44:52] <pr3d4t0r> cheeser: Swiss-German is a collection of dialects, spoken.[22:44:54] <ricky_clarkson> ~runtime classpath[22:44:54] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'changing runtime classpath' might be appropriate:[22:44:57] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, changing runtime classpath is http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jsp?forum=32&thread=300557&message=1961099[22:44:57] <pr3d4t0r> cheeser: No formal written way.[22:45:00] <ricky_clarkson> fransemail: ^^[22:45:06] *** Dandre has joined ##java[22:45:08] <Jax> ricky_clarkson how will that help? can you make a little example ?[22:45:19] <Dandre> hello all,[22:45:19] <pr3d4t0r> cheeser: The little I speak is Zuricher dialect.[22:45:27] <Jax> wi gahts?[22:45:29] <Jax> that'd be ;)[22:45:34] <pr3d4t0r> Jax: Merci.[22:45:38] <fransemail> ricky_clarkson, how can I modify the classpath for that class loader?[22:45:43] <Jax> or even we gahts hehe[22:45:49] *** maroffo has joined ##Java[22:46:07] <Dandre> I have a JTextPane which I want to use to display either html content and plain text content[22:46:21] <maroffo> 'sera[22:46:23] <Stork> Dandre: i bet that feels great[22:46:30] *** maroffo has left ##Java[22:46:40] *** some_dude has quit IRC[22:47:08] <ricky_clarkson> Jax: String input; do { input=br.readLine(); doStuff; while (!input.equals("Bugger off"));[22:47:10] <Dandre> I have used setContentType method to set either txt/html or txt/plain but it doesn't work. What shoult I do?[22:47:19] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell fransemail about javadoc URLClassLoader[22:47:19] <javabot> fransemail, please see java.net.URLClassLoader: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/net/URLClassLoader.html[22:47:43] <ricky_clarkson> Dandre: I use JEditorPane, and if I give it a URL, it JustWorks(tm).[22:48:01] <Stork> Dandre: it's text/html, or text/plain[22:48:12] <ricky_clarkson> Haha.[22:48:13] <Stork> not txt, that's for aol users[22:48:21] <Jax> thanks ricky_clarkson[22:48:23] <ricky_clarkson> snd me prn nw btch.[22:48:23] <fransemail> javabot, I've already saw at URLClassLoader specification, but addURL was protected and I cannot access to it[22:48:24] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'access modifiers' might be appropriate:[22:48:26] <javabot> fransemail, access modifiers is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/java/javaOO/accesscontrol.html[22:48:38] <ricky_clarkson> Haha, good catch.[22:48:40] <Stork> k rcky, i snd l33t pron 2 u[22:48:46] <Dandre> sorry yes I have used text/html and textLplain[22:48:55] <Stork> bleh, ruin my fun then[22:49:25] *** mymayer has joined ##java[22:49:27] *** dingo001 has left ##java[22:49:49] <mymayer> how is the syntax for "enum" and which package is needed ? Can someone give an example ? thank you[22:49:50] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell fransemail about changing runtime classpath[22:49:50] <javabot> fransemail, changing runtime classpath is http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jsp?forum=32&thread=300557&message=1961099[22:49:53] <ricky_clarkson> *again*[22:49:57] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell mymayer about enum[22:49:57] <javabot> mymayer, enum is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/language/enums.html or http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/third_edition/html/classes.html#8.9 (JLS 3rd Edition 8.9)[22:50:05] <Stork> damn it ricky_clarkson, you beat me to it[22:50:19] * ricky_clarkson always beats Germans.[22:50:23] <ricky_clarkson> Sorry, wrong channel.[22:50:31][22:50:47] <Jax> when should you use == and when .equals?[22:50:50] <Jax> very oddish :D[22:50:52] <Dandre> ricky_clarkson: I don't have url but content created by another class[22:51:03] <ricky_clarkson> Jax: == for comparing identity, .equals for equality.[22:51:13] <Jax> o_O[22:51:13] <cyclone> Jax: Still using IRC to learn java eh?[22:51:17] <Jax> no :D[22:51:18] * Jax hides[22:51:19] <ricky_clarkson> Dandre: How do you put it on the JTextPane?[22:51:38] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Jax about string comparison[22:51:38] <javabot> Jax, string comparison is http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-ebb0917a.html[22:51:44] <fransemail> javabot, great![22:51:44] <javabot> fransemail, I have no idea what great is.[22:52:09] <Dandre> ricky_clarkson: I use setText method[22:52:10] *** Stork has quit IRC[22:52:15] <fransemail> javabot, thanks for your suggests![22:52:16] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'thanks' might be appropriate:[22:52:16] <ricky_clarkson> ~great is <reply>No problem, $who.[22:52:18] <javabot> np[22:52:20] <javabot> Okay, ricky_clarkson.[22:52:25] *** Stork has joined ##java[22:52:34] <mymayer> ricky_clarkson it doesnt work[22:52:37] <ricky_clarkson> ~thanks $1 is <reply>No problem, $who.[22:52:38] <javabot> Okay, ricky_clarkson.[22:52:44] <mymayer> ricky_clarkson : private Enum cooType ( TEST, TEST1);[22:53:00] <mymayer> is something wrong here ricky_clarkson[22:53:01] <ricky_clarkson> mymayer: That's because you're case-insensitive.[22:53:19] <Jax> whee it works[22:53:19] <Jax> :D[22:53:23] <Jax> thx ricky_clarkson reading[22:53:37] <Jax> IBM has some pretty good articles[22:53:45] <ricky_clarkson> Shame about their software.[22:53:47] <Jax> also the one on Prompt Magic[22:53:52] *** imperio59 has quit IRC[22:54:15] *** hiko has quit IRC[22:54:18] <mymayer> ricky_clarkson : private enum cooType ( TEST, TEST1); this doesn work..[22:54:34] <ricky_clarkson> mymayer: You're bracket-insensitive.[22:54:46] <NOthsouth> how can I make , IF != int type ?[22:54:55] *** Dandre has quit IRC[22:55:07] <ricky_clarkson> NOthsouth: Eat three bananas and what?![22:55:32] <mymayer> ricky_clarkson : can you be more exakt, sorry[22:55:48] <mymayer> #ah[22:55:49] <mymayer> ok[22:56:18] <NOthsouth> I need something like : if (a != INT) , .. != int types.. numerics....[22:57:09] <Jax> you guys see a way to optimize this n! (n factorial) algorithm: r=1; for(i=n; i>1; i--) { r *= i; } return r; (condition is that 0! is 1)[22:57:35] <mymayer> public enum Rank { DEUCE, THREE, FOUR, FIVE, SIX,[22:57:35] <mymayer> SEVEN, EIGHT, NINE, TEN, JACK, QUEEN, KING, ACE }[22:57:43] <mymayer> doesnt work too, ricky_clarkson[22:57:48] <mymayer> what can be wrong ?[22:57:54] *** zackk has joined ##java[22:57:54] <mymayer> iam using java5[22:58:02] <ernimril> mymayer: "java -version"[22:58:05] <cheeser> javabot: tell mymayer about doesn't work[22:58:05] <javabot> mymayer, doesn't work is useless. Tell us what it is, what you want it to do, and what it is doing.[22:58:36] <ricky_clarkson> mymayer: What's the error?[22:58:43] <mymayer> one second[22:58:43] *** hashman has joined ##java[22:58:50] <ricky_clarkson> That's a strange error.[22:59:30] <mymayer> "enum cannot resolved to a type"[22:59:44] <cheeser> doesn't sound like you're on 1.5[22:59:46] <mymayer> enum is function ?!!?[22:59:53] <mymayer> Oh my goodness[22:59:59] <cheeser> javabot: tell mymayer about enum[23:00:00] <javabot> mymayer, enum is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/language/enums.html or http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/third_edition/html/classes.html#8.9 (JLS 3rd Edition 8.9)[23:00:22] <ricky_clarkson> mymayer: java -version[23:01:45] <mymayer> ricky_clarkson : private enum cooType {value1,value2} <- this should work, or ?[23:01:49] <ricky_clarkson> mymayer: java -version[23:02:00] <Jax> whoa ricky_clarkson.. so == should seldomly be used...[23:02:08] <Jax> except if you are trying to compare memory addresses so to say?[23:02:15] <cheeser> Jax: or primitives[23:02:16] <ricky_clarkson> Jax: Or primitives.[23:02:21] <Jax> javabot primitives[23:02:22] <javabot> Jax, primitives is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/datatypes.html[23:02:26] * ricky_clarkson sod nagely.[23:03:01] <ricky_clarkson> sods nagely.[23:03:46] <Jax> javabot references[23:03:46] <javabot> Jax, I have no idea what references is.[23:04:02] *** Stork is now known as stork[23:04:05] <Jax> so what types are NON-primitives besides String ?[23:04:56] <diro> anything that is not byte, short, int, long, float, double, boolean, char[23:05:08] <Jax> ok so class, interfaces, arrays, strings[23:05:27] <diro> ehhh, sorry[23:05:40] <diro> I mean all these ARE primitives[23:05:41] <diro> sorry[23:05:51] <Jax> yeah those are primitives[23:06:00] <diro> my mistake[23:06:04] <ricky_clarkson> Stop confusing da noobs![23:06:06] <ricky_clarkson> ;)[23:06:17] <Jax> ricky_clarkson why can't i use userName = br.readLine(); in the do {} without doing: throws IOException in the main function[23:06:22] * diro is sorry :([23:06:32] <ricky_clarkson> Jax: Because readLine might throw an IOException.[23:06:39] <Jax> what if i don't care? ;)[23:06:49] <ricky_clarkson> Jax: Then declare that you throw it.[23:07:10] <Jax> you mean with a try catch ?[23:07:15] *** Forexs has quit IRC[23:07:18] <ricky_clarkson> No, with a throws.[23:07:23] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Jax about exceptions[23:07:23] <javabot> Jax, exceptions is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/essential/exceptions[23:07:38] <Jax> thanks[23:09:34] <ricky_clarkson> Kein problem.[23:14:23] *** cored has quit IRC[23:15:13] *** faceplant has joined ##java[23:15:21] <faceplant> doc|home[23:15:23] <faceplant> you dont know shit about java[23:15:28] <faceplant> you stupid lamer get out of this channel[23:15:31] <faceplant> how fucking gay are you bitch[23:15:53] <Erica> who is he talking to and what is his problem[23:16:08] <d03boy> what kind of friggin IDE gives you warnings/errors in commented code? seriously... wtf[23:16:11] <ricky_clarkson> faceplant: Can you tone it down? Or you will leave.[23:16:19] <faceplant> fuck you[23:16:22] <faceplant> ban me motherfucker[23:16:23] <faceplant> NOW[23:16:25] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ricky_clarkson[23:16:28] <faceplant> wait[23:16:30] *** ricky_clarkson sets mode: +b faceplant!*@*[23:16:32] <ernimril> d03boy: that is generally good[23:16:34] *** faceplant was kicked by ricky_clarkson (ricky_clarkson)[23:16:45] <doc|home> he'll change his nick[23:16:55] <d03boy> ernimril, not if it wont compile :([23:17:00] <Erica> was he retarded?[23:17:01] *** tieTYT has quit IRC[23:17:01] *** hadees has quit IRC[23:17:04] <ernimril> d03boy: ah, that may be a problem...[23:17:26] <Erica> there should be a law against allowing 'tards to irc[23:17:29] <ernimril> d03boy: our pre-commit at work inspects comments, but then we do not want commented code to be bad code...[23:17:35] <teralaser> Ah, your manager comes in this channel, doc|home ?[23:17:41] <teralaser> :D[23:17:42] <doc|home> haha[23:18:17] <doc|home> "<doc|home> you're not very bright faceplant <faceplant> no shit" right after someone opped themselves and banned him[23:18:25] <doc|home> he had been abusing them too[23:19:16] <Drone> View ricky_clarkson's post at: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8598[23:19:23] <dmlloyd> lol, that would be good bash.org material if the exact same thing weren't already in there 10000 times[23:19:31] <doc|home> heh[23:19:34] <ricky_clarkson> That's what he said to me in /msg ^^[23:19:37] <jk__> Erica: what about your gantt tool? did you try both of them?[23:19:39] *** ricky_clarkson sets mode: -o ricky_clarkson[23:19:57] *** kio has quit IRC[23:20:03] <dmlloyd> lol ricky_clarkson[23:20:05] <dmlloyd> some people are just odd[23:20:58] <ricky_clarkson> doc|home: Where did this come from?[23:20:58] *** stork has quit IRC[23:21:11] * ricky_clarkson thinks Irish people shouldn't be allowed on the Internet.[23:21:19] * cyclone leaves :([23:21:21] *** Stork has joined ##java[23:21:21] <cyclone> ;P[23:21:22] <doc|home> oi![23:21:28] <ricky_clarkson> doc|home: Well?[23:22:26] <doc|home> ricky_clarkson: he came into #web and started trolling. I asked someone I knew to be an op to stick around. I showed him being a troll in another channel. he abused her, she opped herself and banned him, he's now going into channels I'm in.[23:22:46] <doc|home> and I've banned him from a few channels in the meantime[23:23:36] <ricky_clarkson> alindeman: Can you get rid of faceplant? (scroll up)?[23:23:42] *** warpzero has left ##java[23:24:08] <teralaser> alindeman is away: gone[23:24:08] <meatmanek> if I know every object in my ArrayList is of type Group, can I simply return (Group[]) list.toArray(); ?[23:24:31] <teralaser> In the meantime... http://www.priceless420.com/Pr102605idiotfish.jpg[23:24:42] <ricky_clarkson> meatmanek: No.[23:24:55] <jk__> list.toArray(new Group[0])[23:24:57] <ricky_clarkson> meatmanek: Use generics, or the other version of toArray.[23:25:09] <meatmanek> k.[23:25:16] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: toArray() does not return a typed array...[23:25:23] <doc|home> ricky_clarkson: it has been sorted[23:25:29] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: toArray(T[] t) does[23:25:30] <doc|home> I talked to an oper[23:26:03] <ricky_clarkson> ernimril: Even with generics? St00pid.[23:26:08] <ricky_clarkson> Unless there;s something I'm missing.[23:26:11] <meatmanek> and you do still have to cast the results of toArray(new Group[0]) ?[23:26:20] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: that is one thing they missed, sadly[23:26:27] <ricky_clarkson> ernimril: I wrap List.[23:26:41] <ricky_clarkson> List.contains(Object) is fucking annoying.[23:26:45] <jk__> meatmanek: yes[23:26:59] <meatmanek> ricky_clarkson, how so?[23:27:16] <ricky_clarkson> meatmanek: Well, how can a List<String> contain a StringBuffer, for example?[23:27:52] <meatmanek> hmm.[23:27:55] <ricky_clarkson> When you refactor, you want that kind of thing to show up in your compile errors.[23:29:23] *** mindCrime has quit IRC[23:30:31] *** [TartY] has quit IRC[23:30:47] *** Wufei|school is now known as Chang_Wufei[23:32:02] <ricky_clarkson> I also have a ListView that provides read-only access to a List.[23:33:31] *** depaulis has quit IRC[23:34:26] <ricky_clarkson> Better than runtime exceptions imo.[23:43:22] *** Ulgar has quit IRC[23:43:23] *** d0gf has quit IRC[23:43:46] *** d0gf has joined ##java[23:44:48] <Jax> hm ricky_clarkson .. how can i make a method throw multiple things? not chained exceptions .. but like if(gah == 0) { throw expection1 } else if (gah == 1) { throw expection 2 }[23:45:19] <Jax> eh[23:45:20] <Jax> exception[23:45:23] <Jax> damn can't type ;)[23:45:28] <Sou|cutter> Jax: almost exactly as you imagined[23:45:39] <Jax> ok, but how do i put it in the method definition?[23:45:45] <Jax> throws exception1, exception2 ?[23:45:52] <Sou|cutter> public void foo() throws Exception1, Exception2 { }[23:46:00] <Jax> duh[23:46:00] <Jax> ;)[23:46:02] <Jax> thanks[23:46:09] <Sou|cutter> no problem[23:46:11] <Sou|cutter> ~exceptions[23:46:11] <javabot> Sou|cutter, exceptions is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/essential/exceptions[23:46:31] *** Mell has joined ##java[23:46:47] <Jax> yeah i'm reading that[23:46:53] <Jax> but didn't mention anything about multiple in one method[23:47:09] *** FreemaniaX has quit IRC[23:47:57] *** bpalmer has joined ##java[23:49:03] <Jax> ok[23:49:55] <Jax> and how do i know what the exceptions are called that methods from java classes throw?[23:50:03] <Jax> like IOException[23:50:07] <Jax> for readline[23:50:08] <dmlloyd> from the javadoc[23:50:24] <Sou|cutter> ~tell jax about api[23:50:25] <javabot> jax, api is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/index.html[23:50:53] <ricky_clarkson> Jax: youre a good guesser.[23:51:28] <Jax> yeah...[23:51:40] <ricky_clarkson> ~apostrophesmite ricky_clarkson[23:51:41] * javabot smite's ricky_clarkson wit't a whole's shitloads' of apostrophe's[23:51:44] <Jax> like the other day, i guessed the birthday of my girlfriend from 7. grade correctly (by accident).. now she doesn't stop bothering me...[23:52:06] <ricky_clarkson> Your gf is in the 7th grade?[23:52:16] <Jax> whoops, that one leaked...[23:52:22] <Jax> heh no, when i and her were in 7th grade[23:52:23] <ricky_clarkson> I bet it did.[23:53:30] <Stork> hah[23:53:39] <Stork> ~ricky_clarkson++[23:53:39] <javabot> ricky_clarkson has a karma level of 103, Stork[23:53:42] <Jax> man java is confusing..[23:53:44] <Jax> BufferedReader br = new BufferedReader(new InputStreamReader(System.in));[23:53:45] <Stork> who made javabot?[23:53:47] *** caee has quit IRC[23:53:51] <Jax> why the 100 new's in each other...[23:53:52] <Sou|cutter> Stork: ricky_clarkson[23:54:06] <Jax> modularity i guess...[23:54:07] <Stork> ricky_clarkson: i'm curious as to how you stored the karma?[23:54:12] <Sou|cutter> Jax: each new corresponds to a different object[23:54:22] <Jax> so i could do BufferedReader(new FileInputStream.. or whatever it's called[23:54:26] <ernimril> ~tell Stork about source[23:54:26] <javabot> Stork, My subversion repository can be found at http://www.cheeseronline.org/svn/repos/javabot[23:54:41] <Stork> i just wanted to discuss, not analyze[23:54:50] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: The same way as any other factoid.[23:54:52] <Stork> i used Properties[23:54:53] <Sou|cutter> Jax: if the constructor signature for that object exists[23:55:02] <Jax> yeah checking API[23:55:14] <Stork> ricky_clarkson: for some stupid reason i decided to encrypt my factoids[23:55:29] <dmlloyd> s3kr3t f4ct01d5[23:55:43] *** fransemail has quit IRC[23:55:45] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: I don't think you emphasised 'stupid' enough.[23:55:56] <Stork> STUPID*[23:56:01] <ricky_clarkson> Better.[23:56:09] <Sou|cutter> Stork: factoids used to be stored in a Map of some kind (not sure if that's still the case)[23:56:23] <Stork> I would have thought Properties would be good[23:56:27] <Stork> i just used files though[23:56:36] <Stork> eg, each factoid has its own file[23:56:38] <Sou|cutter> well, the Map was serialized to a file somewhere I'm sure[23:56:55] <Stork> that's basically what Properties is[23:57:05] <Sou|cutter> if you say so[23:57:12] <Jax> ok so let me wrap this up...[23:57:19] <Stork> ~tell Sou|cutter about javadoc properties[23:57:19] <javabot> Sou|cutter, please see java.util.Properties: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/Properties.html[23:57:35] <Sou|cutter> *grin*[23:57:36] <Jax> how can i make the exception throw a specific message.. i.e where do i define the IOException("my message");[23:57:54] <BULLE> Jax: uh ?[23:58:09] <Jax> and can i do catch (IOException) eh = IOException.getMessage();[23:58:09] <Stork> ~tell Jax about exceptions[23:58:09] <javabot> Jax, exceptions is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/essential/exceptions[23:58:15] <Sou|cutter> Jax: check the javadoc for the specific exception, but generally exceptions have a String constructor ala new Exception("SOmething weird happened")[23:58:17] <ricky_clarkson> Sou|cutter: They're now in PostgreSQL, despite my protests. ;)[23:58:24] <Stork> Jax: read it, for christs sake[23:58:24] <Stork> ~jax--[23:58:24] <javabot> jax has a karma level of -1, Stork[23:58:30] <Jax> ah wait wait[23:58:32] <Jax> ahh[23:58:38] * Jax dies due to negative karma[23:58:51] <ricky_clarkson> No, you just get reincarnated as an estate agent.[23:59:06] <Jax> >;/[23:59:07] * Stork feels guilty[23:59:07] <Stork> ~jax++[23:59:08] <javabot> jax has a karma level of 0, Stork[23:59:08] <Sou|cutter> ricky_clarkson: Well, the map performance sucked once the bot filled up with cruft[23:59:17] <ricky_clarkson> Sou|cutter: No it didn't.[23:59:22] <ricky_clarkson> Really, it didn't.[23:59:28] <Sou|cutter> oh really?[23:59:32] <ricky_clarkson> Really.[23:59:33] <Jax> is there a way i can throw IOException without calling it? :D[23:59:34] <Sou|cutter> why was it so slow back then?[23:59:39] <Sou|cutter> I assumed that was why[23:59:40] <Jax> i.e without really generating it[23:59:40] <ricky_clarkson> Network lag.[23:59:48] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser had some issues.[23:59:52] <Sou|cutter> ah