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[00:02:01] <Jax> ok Lars_G JDK and JRE are installed
[00:02:05] <Jax> now to find out how they work :D
[00:02:19] <Lars_G> ~tell jax about first cup of java
[00:02:19] <javabot> jax, A friendly web page to get you started with Java programming: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/getStarted/cupojava/
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[00:02:54] * Jax starts the coffee machine
[00:03:37] <Lars_G> hehehe
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[00:06:51] <Bevin> 'night
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[00:09:03] <Jax> Lars_G: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: test/class
[00:09:19] <Lars_G> Jax: javac reads a filename, java reads a class name.
[00:09:20] <littlezoper> Jax: leave ".class" off your command line
[00:09:30] <Jax> ah ok
[00:09:32] <Jax> one sec
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[00:10:05] <octoberdan> Is it possible to have an object pass itself to a mothod of another object?
[00:10:06] <littlezoper> case is important too
[00:10:12] <Jax> java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: test
[00:10:13] <cyclone> Jax: That url that was sent.. You should attempt to read it word for word.
[00:10:17] <cyclone> It will help you out.
[00:10:25] <littlezoper> octoberdan: foo.method (this); ?
[00:10:26] <cyclone> It will get you started in the right direction.
[00:10:26] * Lars_G nods sagely
[00:10:28] <Jax> i just wrote up a short program, compiled it (worked)
[00:10:35] <Jax> and ran it according to the doc..
[00:10:38] <Jax> but gave me that "error
[00:10:38] <Jax> "
[00:10:45] <octoberdan> littlezoper: Will that be a reference or a clone
[00:10:47] <Lars_G> Jax: is the class name "Test" ?
[00:10:50] <octoberdan> *?
[00:11:05] <Jax> oh. the filename has to be the same as the class name?
[00:11:08] <Jax> it's myClass the class name
[00:11:15] <littlezoper> octoberdan: should be a clone
[00:11:15] <Lars_G> Jax: Yes it has to be.
[00:11:24] <Jax> Hello World!
[00:11:26] <Jax> yeah that was it ;)
[00:11:36] <octoberdan> littlezoper: so it would be safe to kill itself after it passes?
[00:11:38] <Jax> thank you
[00:11:42] <Lars_G> Jax: Hello jax, read the guide and enjoy.
[00:12:03] <Jax> so i can't define more than one class per file ?
[00:12:12] <littlezoper> Jax: only one *public* class
[00:12:15] <octoberdan> littlezoper: oh wait, nevermind
[00:12:21] <Lars_G> Jax: only one public class.
[00:12:21] <octoberdan> littlezoper: that's a stupid question
[00:12:27] <octoberdan> littlezoper: Thanks for the help
[00:12:28] <Jax> ok, so where do i define an interface then? since it applies to more than one class
[00:12:31] <Lars_G> Jax: With the same name as the file.
[00:12:32] <littlezoper> octoberdan: np :)
[00:12:51] <littlezoper> Jax: seriously.  read the first cup
[00:12:52] <cyclone> Jax: Please RTFM
[00:13:05] <Lars_G> Jax: You define an interface, in a file called like the interface name... you IMPLEMENT an interface, in a file called the same as the class name that implements the interface.
[00:13:09] * Jax wonders how he could have ever resisted a cup of coffee
[00:13:10] <Jax> :D
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[00:13:41] <Jax> ok so an interface name can't be the same as a class name, at least not a public one
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[00:14:03] <cyclone> Jax: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/getStarted/index.html
[00:14:10] <Jax> just opened that page 2 sec ago ;)
[00:14:12] <Jax> but thanks
[00:14:14] <littlezoper> Jax: it can, so long as it isn't in the same package :P
[00:14:22] <cyclone> Jax: Then Read it.
[00:14:43] <Lars_G> Jax: no two classes/interfaces can have the same name in the same context (same package, or same VM, etc etc)
[00:15:14] <Lars_G> packages are a sort of "namespace" that will help with that, but personally I see repeating names in a project as a bad coding practice.
[00:15:26] <Jax> indeed
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[00:15:48] <Lars_G> Now I'll be right back, I'm going for food.
[00:15:56] <Jax> time for bed here
[00:15:59] <Lars_G> at least I can pay my own food, and not need to bum on other.
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[00:16:00] <Jax> g'nite, and thanls
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[00:16:09] * cyclone joins ##c to go learn c.
[00:16:12] <cyclone> ;P
[00:16:23] <Lars_G> Jax: have fun, and, I think you're good willed but be ready to get a lot of "RTFMs" in this channel more than explanations.
[00:16:25] <cyclone> Lars_G: You Pretty much taught him Java over IRC.
[00:16:33] <pok> hello all, anybody here familiar with the Compartor interface and implementing compareTo() method?
[00:16:42] <Lars_G> Jax: When you see the ammount and type of questions that are asked here every day you'll understand why.
[00:16:51] <Jax> yeah sorry, it was just the whole JDK/JRE part getting on my nerves.. coming from C++ and scripting languages...
[00:16:56] <Lars_G> ~tell pok about ask
[00:16:56] <javabot> pok, The Ask To Ask protocol wastes more bandwidth than any version of the Ask protocol, so just ask your question.
[00:17:06] <Lars_G> Jax: That was just an example of it.
[00:17:13] <Lars_G> ;)
[00:17:16] <Lars_G> bbl all.
[00:17:17] <Jax> :o
[00:17:38] <Logi> PTSD
[00:17:47] <Logi> Peruse The Sodomizing Documentation
[00:17:56] <Lars_G> Logi: Public Transport Sexual Dissease?
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[00:17:58] <Lars_G> ahh, no.
[00:18:32] <Jax> grr
[00:18:33] <Jax> http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/getStarted/application/classdef.html
[00:18:38] <Jax> doesn't say what the 'static' means
[00:18:41] <Jax> i will have to hurt it!
[00:18:55] <cyclone> Jax: Keep reading... It works it in ;)
[00:20:12] <Jax> ah.. static declares a member eh?
[00:20:21] <Logi> Jax: nope
[00:20:28] <Jax> "A class member is declared by using the static modifier"
[00:20:29] <Logi> Jax: everything is a member
[00:20:30] <Jax> >;/
[00:20:43] <Logi> Jax: hmm.. that's odd wording
[00:20:47] <cyclone> Jax: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/javaOO/classdecl.html
[00:20:53] <cyclone> A nice table for ya.
[00:20:57] <pok> ok, my question is in relation to the compareTo(Object o) method of the Compartor interface, when I implement it this method has to return 1 of 3 possible int values. -1 less than, 0 if its equal and 1 if its greater than, now this is easy if there is only a single member variable to check against, but if you have multiple member variables to check against, is it simple a case of using a statement like if (this.getCustomerName().compareTo((Custo
[00:20:58] <Logi> Jax: it means thatthemethod belongs to the class and not instances of the class
[00:21:22] <Jax> ah ok
[00:21:28] <Jax> everything clear.. ECMA 4 style
[00:21:30] <Logi> pok: I only got the firstbit of that
[00:21:53] <pok> Logi: up until where did you get?
[00:22:01] <Jax> you meant http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/javaOO/variables.html cyclone? :D
[00:22:01] <Sou|cutter> " and not instances of the class"
[00:22:03] <Logi> pok: but probably you will want to have amost significant memberthat you compare first and you only need to compare the next member if the firstmember was equal
[00:22:17] <Sou|cutter> lol
[00:22:19] <Sou|cutter> that was Logi
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[00:23:22] <Logi> my space bar sucks
[00:23:39] <Logi> this "laptop" is destined to become a server, preferably in a silenced box
[00:23:40] <pok> Logi: would this be correct? if (this.getCustomerName().compareTo((Customer)object.getCustomerName()) < 1 & this.getCustomerCountry().compareTo((Customer)object.getCustomerCountry()) < 1) return -1; ?
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[00:23:59] <Jax> Logi so basically everything you declare static, cannot be accessed by instances.. you have to access them directly on the class.. i.e the class never has to be instantiated
[00:24:00] <shingoki> pok, that looks pretty wrong :)
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[00:24:12] <pok> shingoki: in what sense?
[00:24:27] <Logi> pok: ok, first of all, I think you want to declare a variable other of type Customer and assign object to that to get rid of the casts and parenthesis
[00:24:29] <shingoki> that would return -1 if they are both equal
[00:24:31] <pok> i know the braces don't match up
[00:24:43] <shingoki> <1 includes ==0
[00:24:47] <Logi> Jax: pretty much
[00:24:52] <Jax> ok
[00:24:52] <Logi> Jax: but I'm sure they'll get to that
[00:24:55] <Jax> good nite all! :D
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[00:25:27] <octoberdan> If there's going to be casting, isolate it and soround it in a try block
[00:25:28] <pok> shingoki: the first check is for 0, so it returns 0 automatically if they are equal
[00:25:53] <shingoki> pok, ok also you probably want && rather than & ?
[00:26:18] <Logi> pok: what you want is probably something like: int cmp; cmp=this.first.compareTo(other.first); if(cmp!=0) return cmp; cmp=this.second.compareTo(other.second); return cmp;
[00:26:23] <pok> shingoki: && is the shortcut as far as i know, and it needs to satisfy ALL the conditons
[00:26:44] <shingoki> and um, that only returns -1 if both fields are less, so that would be wrong, if only one of the fields is less, then presumably the whole thing is less
[00:26:52] <Logi> pok: that's if you have two fields. If you have more, repeat the first compareTo and if pair
[00:27:26] <Logi> pok: basically, you keep comparing fields until you hit a difference
[00:27:26] <shingoki> pok, IMHO the code should look like if (mostSignificantComparison !=0) return mostSignificantComparison;
[00:27:49] <shingoki> then another line if (nextMostSignificantComparison !=0)...
[00:28:02] <shingoki> that way you avoid deeply nested ifs, and weird logic
[00:28:08] <Logi> pok: shingoki and I are saying exactly the same thing
[00:28:18] <shingoki> Yes sorry Logi
[00:28:21] <pok> Logi: something similar to the compareTo implementation on this url? http://www.javapractices.com/Topic10.cjp
[00:28:25] <Logi> shingoki: that's all right
[00:29:09] <shingoki> yeah that code looks ok
[00:29:28] <Logi> yeah, it just has more cases.. some numeric comparisons and some boolean stuff
[00:30:22] <shingoki> Actually one thing - if you look at Comparable docs, they say you return negative for less than, not necessarily -1
[00:30:40] <pok> ok thanks guys, shingoki to come back to your point, the return mostSignifcantComparison would that be an int value?
[00:30:44] <shingoki> so two things - don't rely on it being -1, use <0, and also, you can do a quick comparison on two ints by just subtracting
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[00:31:03] <shingoki> pok, yes that is something like the result of another compareTo(), or one int minus another
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[00:31:07] <pok> shingoki: yea, i have noticed when i did some prints out sometimes it returns -4 other times 8, 9 or 12
[00:31:23] <Logi> yeah, to keep straight in you head what a.compareTo(b) should return, it should returna number with the same sign as a-b
[00:31:33] <shingoki> pok, if you have two ints i and j, you can return i-j
[00:31:48] <shingoki> you don't need all that if i < j return -1; if J < i return 1
[00:31:51] * Logi chuckles and goes to pour himself another glass of wine
[00:32:13] <Logi> shingoki: will that not occasionally over/under-flow though?
[00:32:14] <pok> yea, i understand
[00:32:26] <shingoki> Logi, yeah it could
[00:32:37] <Logi> shingoki: just a thought
[00:32:52] <shingoki> Logi, I guess you should only use it for numbers you are happy doing arithmetic on :)
[00:32:57] <shingoki> but I hadn't thought of that, good point
[00:33:14] * Logi is a paranoid bugger
[00:33:14] <pok> anyway, thanks again for the help
[00:33:18] <shingoki> np :)
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[00:33:48] <shingoki> would be nice if overflows could be detected more easily :)
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[00:33:58] <Logi> shingoki: yeah, they should really be exceptions
[00:34:30] <Logi> itisvery rare that an overflow results in correct logic
[00:34:48] <Logi> so if that's the odd case, that's the case that should take extra work
[00:34:55] <shingoki> yup absolutely
[00:34:59] <shingoki> I assume it is a performance thing
[00:35:04] <Logi> might be
[00:35:09] <Logi> probably is
[00:35:24] <shingoki> I know a lot of stuff about Java arithmetic is not ideal, for performance and for compatibility with some lame CPU behaviour :)
[00:35:36] <Logi> if I remember my x86, there is a flag register set after each operation if there was an overflow, but it's not free to check it
[00:35:43] <Sou|cutter> but we have ArrayIndexOutOfBounds... why not IntegerOverflow
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[00:36:39] <Logi> there was aconditional jump which checked thatflag... that could be used to jump to the exception throwing code
[00:37:11] <vinse> Logi: you're assuming java overflow conditions are conditions that set that flag
[00:37:15] <vinse> which i doubt
[00:37:15] <shingoki> http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~wkahan/JAVAhurt.pdf
[00:37:29] <shingoki> ^^ rant about java numerics, it goes into all the terrible details
[00:38:00] <Logi> vinse: they would be on x86 since there are register sizes/assembly instructions which correspond to the java types, but yeah, you might in some cases not have a clean correspondance
[00:38:22] <Logi> shingoki: nah, I'm too comfortable to go read something like that just now
[00:38:57] <Logi> and of course, java wasn't really designed with x86 in mind, was it :)
[00:38:58] <shingoki> Logi, it doesn;t make much difference, I don't think any of the stuff it complains about will ever be fixed
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[00:39:31] <shingoki> Logi, yeah the Java floating point behaviour is meant to match some other CPU, can't remember which
[00:39:35] <shingoki> probably something to do with Sun :)
[00:39:58] <Logi> shingoki: yeah, they're much more worried about object allocation cost, thread synchronization cost and other stuff that actually matters in these days of cheap 64-bit laptops and expensive programmers
[00:40:08] <Logi> shingoki: Sun? why?
[00:40:22] * Logi goes to get another glass of wine while scratching his head
[00:40:30] <shingoki> Logi, heh :)
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[00:42:05] <shingoki> Logi, no I mean I think it was a sun cpu, I don't know too much about these things :) It's all in the PDF anyway
[00:42:21] <Logi> those will be Sparcs
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[00:46:11] <Logi> I've only done assembly on x86 and some binary coding on an 68HC11, so I'm hardly an expert
[00:46:14] <shingoki> Somebody somewhere knows what the shutter lag time on a Samsum Digimax V800 is
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[00:46:19] <shingoki> Samsung that is
[00:46:33] * Logi mumbles something about google and topics
[00:46:38] <shingoki> heh yeah
[00:46:47] <shingoki> Next step is cheeser slaps me :)
[00:47:02] <Logi> hell, if you want I can do that :-P
[00:47:09] <shingoki> Google doesn't know though, I've spent hours looking :(
[00:47:12] <shingoki> nah that's ok ;)
[00:47:23] <Logi> you sure?
[00:47:38] <Logi> it's no bother, really
[00:47:42] <shingoki> pretty sure, I've run about a dozen queries, checked pages and pages
[00:47:52] <shingoki> oh you mean the slapping :)
[00:47:56] <shingoki> no I'll skip that
[00:48:01] <Logi> well, you brought it up...
[00:48:18] <shingoki> If it would make you feel better :)
[00:48:31] <Logi> nah, that's fine. I'll just shout at someone at work tomorrow
[00:48:53] <shingoki> Ah good, give them an extra insult for me :)
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[00:48:59] <Logi> will do!
[00:49:18] * cheeser slaps shingoki
[00:49:22] <shingoki> gah!
[00:49:24] <cheeser> 8^)=
[00:49:30] <shingoki> Like a ninja from the shadows!
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[00:49:56] <Logi> shingoki: you shouldn't have named him, you know...
[00:49:59] <cheeser> whaaaaaa!
[00:50:02] <shingoki> yeah :)
[00:50:18] * cheeser starts meditating.  and levitating.
[00:50:31] <shingoki> your num-chuks are showing...
[00:50:31] * Logi cuts cheeser's thread
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[00:51:14] <sandstorm> hi, my IDE is storing visual components' information in an .form(xml) file, and i dont know how to handle those components in code. i'm a bit new into this stuff, do you have any suggestions(tutorial links, documentations etc. maybe)
[00:52:08] <cheeser> here's one:
[00:52:12] <cheeser> javabot: tell sandstorm about newbie ide
[00:52:13] <javabot> sandstorm, newbies shouldn't use IDEs.  read:  http://qa.jtiger.org/GetQAndA.action?qids=52&showAnswers=true
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[00:52:46] <Logi> The_Vulture: ah, haven't seen you in a while. Good morning!
[00:52:57] <sandstorm> I know how to code, the thing I dont know is GUIs
[00:52:59] <The_Vulture> Logi: g'day
[00:53:03] <sandstorm> and XML integration
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[00:53:58] <shingoki> sandstorm, this is netbeans?
[00:54:10] <sandstorm> shingoki: no it isn't
[00:54:35] <shingoki> sandstorm, ah ok, netbeans has .form files too
[00:55:14] <sandstorm> shingoki: they are all based on the same logic, XML holds visual components to improve mobilty
[00:55:18] <shingoki> presumably your IDE either uses the file to insert code, or inserts code to load the xml, it must be documented in the IDE
[00:55:40] <shingoki> personally if I really had to use XML to store a form, I guess I would use XMLEncoder/Decoder
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[00:56:10] <The_Vulture> sandstorm: not necessarily. Many IDEs have extra form description just to provide the extra information required by the GUI construction tool - doesn't really "improve mobility" so far as I can see.
[00:57:16] <The_Vulture> And XMLEncoder/Decoder don't either - they just make it easier to create/load, rather than writing all this code, you just construct the actual GUI in an editor, then it takes the live objects and encodes them with an Encoder - the result is effectively the same as if you (or the IDE) had written source, but it's got a nice, uniform, IDE-independent fomat
[00:57:22] <The_Vulture> s/fomat/format/
[00:57:39] <sandstorm> The_Vulture: it's all about standardization. XML is a common way of holding form components' data. by the way you can easily migrate to any other ide.
[00:58:08] <Logi> sandstorm: hah, you've bought the hupe
[00:58:09] <Logi> hype
[00:58:11] <The_Vulture> sandstorm: Not necessarily - XML is as portable as raw text, if each IDE uses its own XML structure there as non-portable as any other format
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[00:58:57] <The_Vulture> sandstorm: If IDEs standardized their UI descrption (on a specific XML structure, or any other format) it might work. I'm unaware of any IDEs using XMLEncoder/Decoder like XML formats for serializing all their UI builder information.
[00:58:59] <Logi> xml is not a data format, it's an encoding scheme for hierarichal (I can never spell that damned word) data formats
[00:59:05] <sandstorm> The_Vulture: I see, so what's the rationale behind the usage of XML ?
[00:59:26] <The_Vulture> sandstorm: generic tools - you get a higher level view of the structure compared to a pure byte stream
[00:59:36] <Honk^away> it's easily readable by humans ;)
[00:59:40] <Logi> sandstorm: it's programmer-readable
[00:59:46] <Logi> Honk^away: no, not humans. Geeks
[00:59:56] <The_Vulture> rather than dealing with say - a FileReader giving you characters, you deal with an XML parser giving you some, as Logi said, hierarchical structure
[00:59:57] <shingoki> XMLEncoder/DEcoder was explicitly meant to support use by IDE's to store UI's
[01:00:07] <shingoki> it is pretty good for the purpose
[01:00:10] <Honk^away> even a normal user can replace some text in a properly formatted xml file
[01:00:12] <The_Vulture> shingoki: "IDEs" and UIs" *beats you with an apostrophe*
[01:00:18] <shingoki> but it's still not as good as just writing your own GUI code :)
[01:00:19] <The_Vulture> shingoki: Which IDEs currently use it for that purpose?
[01:00:31] <shingoki> The_Vulture, none that I know of
[01:00:41] <The_Vulture> shingoki: Actually it's pretty much equivalent to writing your own GUI code - all XMLEncoded output looks like is a sequence of constructions, method calls, etc.
[01:00:47] <shingoki> I like to put an apostrophe after acronyms, and I don't care :)
[01:00:59] <The_Vulture> just easier for a builder to generate it, rather than having to implement its own code generation routines
[01:01:16] <shingoki> The_Vulture, XMLEncoder/Decoder is a bit weird, so are most Swing components, so putting the two together scares me
[01:01:19] <The_Vulture> shingoki: Congratulations for being an idiot *shrugs*
[01:01:20] <shingoki> even though it should be fine
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[01:01:41] <The_Vulture> I quite like the idea of XMLEncoder/Decoder, even for things that aren't related to UIs at all.
[01:01:43] <shingoki> The_Vulture, congratulations for being a pedant, you can pat yourself on the back for it, #cos no one else will :)
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[01:02:04] <shingoki> The_Vulture, I use XML codec a lot for non swing stuff, just not for swing
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[01:02:12] <The_Vulture> I know several people who will, well perhaps they won't pat me on the back, because I'd just find that weird, but they actually appreciate correctness.
[01:02:37] <shingoki> The_Vulture, acronyms are already pretty borderline, I think you can permit an apostrophe :)
[01:02:44] <shingoki> IDEs just looks odd to me
[01:02:45] <The_Vulture> shingoki: Borderline what?
[01:02:56] <Logi> shingoki: he's just an apostrophobe
[01:03:19] <shingoki> well acronyms are a bit of a neologism, aren't they?
[01:03:25] <The_Vulture> Logi: Not at all, you used an apostrophe correctly right there - and that fills my little heart with joy.
[01:03:28] <sandstorm> as far as I know, XML is born based on the idea "accessing the same data from different platforms/applications". am I right?
[01:03:49] <Logi> The_Vulture: that was a *joke*
[01:03:51] <The_Vulture> sandstorm: How it may or may not have been born doesn't change what it is, and is not.
[01:03:55] <shingoki> sandstorm, yeah most people approve of the idea, just not necessarily the implementation, which is quite a common thing :)
[01:04:05] <The_Vulture> Logi: You know I don't understand humour. ;)
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[01:04:39] <Logi> The_Vulture: quite
[01:04:50] <sandstorm> as a result, I was thinking that IDEs hold data in XMLs to catch a common standard, but apparently I am wrong.
[01:04:56] <shingoki> So before all the apostrophe crap... there was some kind of actual discussion...
[01:05:23] <shingoki> sandstorm, they probably use XML because it is hip and fashionable, there doesn't have to be any actual use to it
[01:05:37] <The_Vulture> sandstorm: Just using XML doesn't make something more "standard". For a given domain people have to agree on a specific structure, whether it be based on XML, raw text, binary, etc.
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[01:06:02] <shingoki> The_Vulture, XML takes you through a lot of the lower level specification detail, to allow a higher level spec.
[01:06:13] <The_Vulture> shingoki: Sure
[01:06:21] <The_Vulture> I've said that, more or less, a few times, I think.
[01:06:24] <sandstorm> The_Vulture: XML is not just the raw text, it's a way to group and label the data of course. that's why they choose it.
[01:06:33] <The_Vulture> sandstorm: I didn't say it was raw text.
[01:06:34] <Logi> xml is a nice meta data format, as it were
[01:06:59] <shingoki> The_Vulture, well, not that I've heard, but I'm sur eyou have
[01:07:00] <The_Vulture> I said for a given domain, someone needs to create a data format which can be based on XML, raw text, or even binary. 3 distinct possibilities
[01:07:06] <sandstorm> The_Vulture: it will be hard to agree on a standard based on a raw text.
[01:07:09] <vinse> does any one know a way i can get eclipse to hang more often? i just enjoy it so much
[01:07:17] <shingoki> gah everyone get their panties unknotted!
[01:07:17] <vinse> sorry i guess i should ask in #eclipse
[01:07:18] <Logi> it's like text files and CSV files in that regard, but with more complexconstructs supported by the tools
[01:07:19] <The_Vulture> sandstorm: No harder than one based on XML, so far as I can see.
[01:07:29] <The_Vulture> Logi: *nods*
[01:07:42] <The_Vulture> vinse: Use vim :)
[01:07:52] <Logi> vinse: use a rope
[01:08:02] <shingoki> XML with a nice toolset and schema system is pretty useful, but very inefficient in terms of size and possibly processing
[01:08:04] <sandstorm> The_Vulture: dont think so, unfortunately you have to group data.
[01:08:17] <shingoki> binary XML might be nice if it ever becomes a standard
[01:08:18] * The_Vulture pictures the Eclipse source code tied in a noose
[01:08:30] <The_Vulture> shingoki: ASN.1 perhaps?
[01:08:42] <shingoki> The_Vulture, I'd have to google that :)
[01:08:44] <The_Vulture> sandstorm: Depends on the data set - take CSV files for example. Not XML based, perfectly useful
[01:08:45] * Logi tries to suppress the shakes
[01:08:50] <The_Vulture> Logi: hehe :P
[01:09:05] <Logi> I'm working with smar cards andx.509 just now and that's too much fucking asn.1 for anyone
[01:09:27] <Logi> so what binary encoding do you want with that asn.1 structure?
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[01:09:50] <sandstorm> The_Vulture: you are talking about a relative example. what I am trying to point out is a generic form.
[01:09:52] <Logi> any preference w.r.t. text encodings? no? so I must support them all then? *cringe*
[01:10:08] <The_Vulture> Logi: hehe - bugger.
[01:10:09] <shingoki> The_Vulture, that looks good
[01:10:36] <shingoki> The main thing I dislike about XML is the in-stream markup stuff
[01:10:43] <shingoki> Also the emphasis on human readability
[01:10:53] <Logi> there is a particularly nice bit int he x.509v3 standard where text strings before a particular date may be encoded according to one of these rules here, but after that date according to those rules over there
[01:10:53] <The_Vulture> shingoki: the self-descrpitive nature?
[01:11:00] <The_Vulture> Yeah - seems a bit silly really.
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[01:11:13] <shingoki> I have yet to see a human capable of say using his tongue to detect the voltage on a bit of electronics, decosing ASCII in his head, and hence reading XML
[01:11:16] <The_Vulture> Logi: Ooh, sweet. :P
[01:11:31] <shingoki> I mean FFS if you have a PC, you can install something capable of decoding a simple standard binary format and rendering it as text
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[01:11:53] <rogue-kun{B}|Awa> shingoki: the use somthing else
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[01:12:04] <The_Vulture> shingoki: Well the theory is that with XML you can read the raw text - with something that's not self descrptive (binary or otherwise) you'd also need the specification
[01:12:05] <shingoki> there is no need at all to send that text anywhere, just in case someone is caught short, with only an old amiga, a wind up clockwork generator, a length of duct tape, and a gleam in their eye
[01:12:10] <rogue-kun{B}> But I like XML's human readiblity
[01:12:20] <The_Vulture> But really to understand most non-trivial XML encodings you need the DTD or Schema anyway.
[01:12:27] * The_Vulture beats rogue-kun{B} with an apostrophe
[01:12:28] <Logi> I like XML's programmer readability
[01:12:33] <The_Vulture> wait, no.. that was right. Bleh.
[01:12:34] <shingoki> The_Vulture, yes but, for example, if there was some way to just escape the next N bytes, you could have raw data in the file instead of cursed Base64
[01:12:35] <rogue-kun{B}> it makes 3rd party support fro the data files much easyer
[01:12:36] <The_Vulture> Pardon.
[01:12:40] <Logi> The_Vulture: hee-hee!
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[01:12:46] <shingoki> The_Vulture, but then it wouldn't be editable by an idiot with notepad
[01:12:47] * The_Vulture is just a little hypersensitive
[01:13:05] <Logi> The_Vulture: that's hyphersensitive
[01:13:13] <shingoki> The_Vulture, I would just risk pissing off the idiot with notepad, and go for the N byte escape
[01:13:15] <The_Vulture> Logi: Hardly.
[01:13:22] <The_Vulture> Well, sorta.
[01:13:24] <The_Vulture> But no.
[01:13:47] <shingoki> binary XML could still have enough data to render directly into human readable text XML, but be smaller and easier to parse
[01:14:07] <shingoki> one copy of each tag in a dictionary, raw data with a length at the beginning, etc.
[01:14:25] <Logi> it's just like DER encoding for asn.1
[01:14:26] <shingoki> a checksum at the end :)
[01:14:46] <Logi> all the data is there, it's just efficiently encoded so you don'thave to worry about people messing with it
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[01:14:53] <gangster`s> hello
[01:15:06] <rogue-kun{B}> Logi the point of XML is so people can mess with though
[01:15:08] <Logi> hello, how's Romania?
[01:15:12] <shingoki> then there could be a 100 line binary<->text XML converter for every conceivable platform, and if people are caught short without that, screw 'em
[01:15:19] <gangster`s> well
[01:15:34] <gangster`s> nice, but is 2.15 am in romania
[01:15:41] * Logi throws rogue-kun{B} a cloth to polish his sarcasm detector
[01:15:45] <cheeser> mmmmm.  late night coding sessions.
[01:16:04] * Logi was offered a job in .ro once
[01:16:19] <Logi> consulting/educating type of thing about PKI
[01:16:26] <shingoki> Anyway, XML is here, it's text, so I guess we had better get used to it :)
[01:16:58] <sandstorm> and spreading with a light speed.
[01:17:07] * Logi glances over at his persistance implementation using tens of thousands of individual XML files and wonders when the guy will be finished re-implementing it using a database
[01:18:18] <gangster`s> i am wery "sleppy"
[01:18:50] <gangster`s> but after all where can i find a irc script
[01:19:14] <gangster`s> i'm am a php coder...
[01:19:23] <shingoki> ?
[01:19:27] <gangster`s> but i need a irc
[01:19:43] <gangster`s> where can i find a irc script?
[01:19:48] <The_Vulture> gangster`s: you seem to be in the wrong channel
[01:19:56] <gangster`s> jscript?
[01:20:11] <The_Vulture> I thought we'd moved on from this years ago.
[01:20:15] <shingoki> #php ?
[01:20:23] <The_Vulture> Java is no JavaScript, nor is it JScript, or even PHP.
[01:20:29] <gangster`s> i know
[01:20:34] <gangster`s> all of that
[01:20:36] * cheeser puts shingoki in an XML envelope and mails him home.
[01:20:54] <The_Vulture> gangster`s: so how's about you leave..
[01:21:09] <gangster`s> ok
[01:21:12] <gangster`s> bye
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[01:21:23] <shingoki> XML encoding a person... that would be a challenge
[01:21:24] <The_Vulture> well that was easy
[01:21:40] <shingoki> The_Vulture, he was pretty sleppy I guess
[01:21:47] <The_Vulture> guess so
[01:22:46] <shingoki> Right, talking about XML has made me wery sleppy too, night ;)
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[01:25:47] <cheeser> wth was all that with gangster?
[01:26:16] <The_Vulture> beats me
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[01:29:08] <nirvdrum> Wow, there's a foreign face.
[01:29:17] <nirvdrum> The_Vulture: How goes it?
[01:29:38] <The_Vulture> slowly & painfully (thesis due next week, haven't really written much of it), but apart from that.. much the same :)
[01:29:41] <The_Vulture> you?
[01:29:57] <nirvdrum> I'm actually trudging through my thesis too.
[01:30:02] <nirvdrum> But overall, not too bad.
[01:30:05] <nirvdrum> I had until December ;-)
[01:30:45] <cheeser> tee hee hee
[01:30:46] <cheeser> school.
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[01:33:34] <xitrium> if you compile things with, say, gcj, does that mean you don't need the vm?
[01:33:58] <cheeser> depends on you how compile with gcj
[01:34:49] <Honk^away> gcj sucks anyway =D
[01:34:59] <xitrium> lol
[01:35:08] <xitrium> is there any way to compile java so that it doesn't need a vm?
[01:35:20] <xitrium> and what's better than gcj?
[01:35:45] <cheeser> there are some commercial native compilers for java.
[01:35:50] <cheeser> most of the time it's not really worth it.
[01:36:13] <Honk^away> the one i know about just puts the vm into the .exe anyway
[01:36:19] <xitrium> haha
[01:36:21] <xitrium> terrible
[01:36:28] <Honk^away> nah
[01:36:41] <Honk^away> making a .exe from java is terrible =)
[01:36:54] <Honk^away> unless you've got really good reason to do so
[01:37:14] <joaopaulo> xitrium, take a look on jikes and sablevm
[01:37:36] <xitrium> alright, thanks
[01:37:57] <Honk^away> aw cmon, tell us why you want to do that :p
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[01:40:21] <mohadib> anyone want to work with me on a remote backup software ... non-opensource , I all ready have 2 perspective clients
[01:40:36] <cheeser> like dibs?
[01:40:53] <mohadib> cheeser: im not familiar with dibs
[01:40:57] * mohadib googles
[01:42:03] <mohadib> yes
[01:42:14] <mohadib> but the files only go to one server
[01:42:20] <znoG> what should this backup software do that existing backup software can't?
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[01:42:55] <mohadib> not much , it seems the people who are asking me to write it are not happy with what is out there
[01:43:18] <mohadib> i am set to speak with them about why they dont like existing soltuoins
[01:43:31] <znoG> yea, good idea
[01:43:36] <cheeser> who cares as long as they pay?
[01:43:37] <cheeser> 8^)=
[01:43:40] <mohadib> cheeser: exactly
[01:43:43] <znoG> true
[01:44:02] <mohadib> and i see it as a reoccuring charge
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[01:44:35] <cheeser> especially if they're too dumb to use existing free options.
[01:44:36] <cheeser> 8^)=
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[01:45:20] <mohadib> yep , exisiting option do not come with my support
[01:45:28] <mohadib> thats is part of the reason
[01:45:36] * cheeser signs up for the existing solutions.
[01:45:36] <cheeser> 8^)=
[01:45:40] <mohadib> heh
[01:46:42] <xitrium> Honk^away, haha
[01:48:24] <mohadib> znoG: i would say the main feature will be cheap offsite backup that is geared to small business and non-business users
[01:48:55] <mohadib> atleast thats i how would sale it
[01:50:25] <cheeser> sell
[01:50:33] <mohadib> ty
[01:50:35] <cheeser> 8^)=
[01:51:55] <mohadib> ahh sale is a noun
[01:51:57] <mohadib> :)
[01:52:04] <cheeser> yes, it is.  8^)=
[01:52:07] <mohadib> hehe
[01:52:22] <cheeser> congratulations, billy.  you've graduated the 4th grade!
[01:52:37] <mohadib> yeah yeah
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[01:53:52] <mohadib> i did well in english through out school , but i never could spell :\
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[01:57:02] <forsaken> how do you read a series of strings from a file? What class would i use?
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[01:59:23] <Honk^away> bufferedreader
[01:59:29] <Honk^away> prolly
[02:00:47] <xitrium> i'd use Scanner
[02:01:22] <Honk^away> you'd make an exe from a java program :P
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[02:01:36] <xitrium> haha
[02:01:37] <xitrium> just the one
[02:01:47] <xitrium> scanner is easier anyway ;)
[02:02:13] <Honk^away> not much ;)
[02:03:13] <xitrium> lol
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[02:06:31] <mohadib> where are the programmers who collaborate for nothing more than the love of the work? ;)
[02:06:33] <ArGunda> I need to do a sci fair ... since I'm poor and I cant afford to do internships with stupid bio professors, Im just gonna do it in Com Sci... with Java ofcourse! What do u guys think I could do it on?
[02:06:46] <delvinj> and the dirty, dirty cash
[02:06:53] <nmx> mohadib: love? work?
[02:06:57] <mohadib> heh
[02:07:03] <ArGunda> I'm thinking something with Data Structures..
[02:07:14] <mohadib> oh , so it's just me then... :\
[02:07:21] <ArGunda> but I dont really have a concrete idea... lol
[02:08:04] <xitrium> I <3 programming
[02:09:06] <ArGunda> anyone?....
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[02:10:13] <mohadib> ArGunda: java3d seems interesting
[02:10:30] <ArGunda> hmmmm
[02:10:36] <ArGunda> I need to test something tho..
[02:10:47] <mohadib> or an indepth "thing" on how reflective programming works and how it can be used
[02:10:57] <ArGunda> like have a varialbe (no pun) which I can change.. then test the effects of it
[02:11:02] <ArGunda> :o
[02:12:05] <ArGunda> mohadib, what exactly is reflectice programming?
[02:12:41] <mohadib> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=define%3Areflective+programming&btnG=Search
[02:13:11] <ArGunda> lool
[02:13:13] <ArGunda> i just did that
[02:13:59] <gabb> Erm,.. in a copy constructor, can I simply do this = arg.clone() or is this just for member fields that are reference types ?
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[02:15:15] <stodge> Can I enable anti-aliasing for a swing app from code? For the whole application?
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[02:15:33] <mohadib> stodge: yes , but it is a hack
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[02:15:53] <mohadib> and might not work in the future and does not work for webstart apss or applets
[02:16:02] <ArGunda> mohadib, reflective programming is a relatively new concept for me.. I dont know how much indepth i an go in 3 months
[02:16:06] <stodge> Really? That's a bummer
[02:16:20] <mohadib> swing.aatext = true
[02:16:30] <cheeser> mohadib: you have to do that at VM start up, afaik
[02:16:33] <ArGunda> *can
[02:16:34] <mohadib> or you can use the SmoothMetal theme javootoo.com
[02:18:19] <stodge> Will that change with the next release?
[02:19:02] <mohadib> ~mustang
[02:19:07] * stodge is still struggling trying to get a simple window to show using Eclipse's GUI editor
[02:19:08] <javabot> mohadib, I have no idea what mustang is.
[02:19:27] <mohadib> stodge: gui editors kinda suck
[02:19:36] <stodge> Yeah but they're good for prototyping
[02:19:42] * mohadib nods
[02:19:53] <ArGunda> use NetBeans... lol
[02:20:04] <stodge> I am
[02:20:09] <stodge> Learning that too
[02:20:19] <stodge> Except it uses openide, which means more jar files
[02:20:59] <ArGunda> I'm currently using BluJ
[02:21:03] <ArGunda> *BlueJ
[02:21:09] <ArGunda> no problems so far
[02:21:35] <stodge> bluj? Does it have a GUI builder of sorts?
[02:21:48] <ArGunda> uh..
[02:22:06] <ArGunda> yes
[02:22:49] * mohadib didnt know perl could use reflection
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[02:23:44] <X-Scale> when someone is in a Eclipse/Java Studio Enterprise dilema, what road to follow ?
[02:23:53] <ArGunda> wait..... stodge, idk
[02:23:54] <ArGunda> lol
[02:23:59] <Garibaldi> BlueJ doesn't have a GUI builder
[02:24:04] <idpromnut> X-Scale: go with Idea instead :)
[02:25:01] <stodge> I'm experimenting with netbeas
[02:25:04] <stodge> netbeans even
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[02:27:40] <ArGunda> yea i just found out :/
[02:27:48] <vinse> ~ide war
[02:27:49] <javabot> emacs rocks
[02:27:52] <vinse> ~ide war
[02:27:52] <javabot> jbuilder is cool
[02:28:08] <vinse> they all suck imo
[02:28:09] <ArGunda> anyone try pcGrasp?
[02:28:18] <vinse> ive been using cuneiform and clay tablets
[02:28:26] <ArGunda> cool
[02:28:38] <ArGunda> vinse, is version 7.4b out?
[02:28:40] <vinse> hang on, i have to sharpen my reed stylus
[02:29:23] <tieTYT> does anyone have a good article on the java classloader?
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[02:29:46] <vinse> btw, i jsut looked it up, and do my amazement i spelled "cuneiform" correctly
[02:29:50] <vinse> s/do/to
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[02:30:13] <ArGunda> what are somethings data structures can be used for
[02:30:35] <forsaken> does anyone know whats wrong w/ this line? (i got it pretty much word for word out of the java docs) Scanner dictfile = new Scanner(new File("file"));
[02:30:44] <forsaken> gives me a Unhandled exception type FileNotFoundException
[02:31:02] <vinse> forsaken: heh, you need a file named "file" i'd guess
[02:31:24] <Garibaldi> do you have code to catch the exception?
[02:31:28] <forsaken> well, it isn't even running...
[02:31:39] <forsaken> (i have code before that, printing something out, and that isnt being executed)
[02:31:43] <vinse> forsaken: oh, compile error
[02:31:45] <vinse> sorry
[02:31:46] <forsaken> yea
[02:31:54] <tieTYT> forsaken: you need to wrap a try/catch block around that
[02:31:54] <vinse> forsaken: yeah, what Garibaldi said then
[02:32:06] <forsaken> Garibaldi, no
[02:32:11] <forsaken> i wasn't aware that I had to.../
[02:32:21] <Garibaldi> forsaken: that's what that error means
[02:32:22] <vinse> forsaken: well that's why the compiler told you
[02:32:35] <forsaken> hrm
[02:32:42] <forsaken> so do i have to try/catch it?
[02:32:49] <vinse> forsaken: or throw it
[02:33:16] <vinse> forsaken: if i'm just trying little tests and playing around, i'll have all my methods throw
[02:33:18] <vinse> Exception
[02:33:25] <vinse> but this is a VERY bad idea for real code
[02:33:30] <vinse> so dont get used to doing it
[02:33:37] <forsaken> hrm
[02:34:03] <forsaken> well i'm just trying to read strings from the file, and i can't figure it out heh :x
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[02:36:18] <tieTYT> just put try { code... } catch (Exception e) { e.printStackTrace() }
[02:36:24] <forsaken> also...can you have functions called in your main() that aren't static? (i'm getting this error, but it seems silly not to be able to have helper functions in the same class as the code)
[02:36:26] <forsaken> ok
[02:36:54] <xitrium> try { Scanner scanner = new Scanner(new File(filething)); } catch(FileNotFoundException e) { System.out.println("file not found"); }
[02:37:04] <tieTYT> didn't you mean to ask, can the main call methods that aren't static?
[02:37:17] <tieTYT> yes you said that...
[02:37:18] <tieTYT> anyway
[02:37:20] <tieTYT> the way you do that
[02:37:28] <tieTYT> is to create an instance of the object that main is in
[02:37:32] <tieTYT> and use it inside main
[02:37:49] <xitrium> hee
[02:37:52] <xitrium> *hehe
[02:38:01] <forsaken> gotcha
[02:38:27] <forsaken> xitrium, now I have that, and it's saying that the Scanner dictfile, dictfile is undefined later on in the file :x
[02:38:33] * forsaken curses
[02:38:46] <xitrium> do "dictfile"
[02:38:52] <xitrium> i think
[02:39:20] <vinse> forsaken: heh, it's cuz it can only be seen in the scope it was declared ... since you're declaring in the try, tha't sthe only place it can be used
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[02:39:30] <xitrium> ohhh
[02:39:32] <xitrium> i see what you mean
[02:39:33] <vinse> forsaken: declare it outside the try, but initialized it inside
[02:39:34] <forsaken> ah
[02:39:35] <forsaken> okay
[02:39:53] <xitrium> yeah, sorry, i thought you meant the new File(dictfile) wasn't found or something, my bad
[02:39:56] <vinse> e.g. Scanner scanner = null; try { scanner = new Scanner( ...
[02:40:03] <forsaken> The local variable dictfile may not have been initialized
[02:40:10] * forsaken sighs
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[02:40:30] <vinse> forsaken: set it to null instead of just declaring it
[02:40:51] <tieTYT> you should read the java tutorial
[02:40:53] <vinse> forsaken: you're experiencing java-noob frustrations 1 through 7 here
[02:41:00] <vinse> yeah, what tieTYT said
[02:41:05] <forsaken> whew
[02:41:08] <forsaken> lol
[02:41:08] <forsaken> yea
[02:41:14] <forsaken> i got it workin :)
[02:41:21] <forsaken> just not used to the concept of the whole try/catch thing
[02:41:27] <vinse> forsaken: read the tutorial anyway ;)
[02:41:31] <forsaken> hehe
[02:41:37] <vinse> ~tell forsaken about really big index
[02:41:37] <javabot> forsaken, really big index is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/reallybigindex.html
[02:41:38] <forsaken> in the topic?
[02:41:43] <vinse> ~tell forsaken about first cup
[02:41:43] <javabot> forsaken, A friendly web page to get you started with Java programming: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/getStarted/cupojava/
[02:41:48] <forsaken> thanks :)
[02:42:59] <L----D> hi guys
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[02:43:52] <tieTYT> now that we're giving java tutorials out for free, is there one for the classloader?
[02:45:36] <tieTYT> :(
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[02:52:58] <The_Vulture> tieTYT: what do you want to know about them?
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[02:53:29] <tieTYT> just like how they work.  I think i suck at classpaths just like 99% of java programmers
[02:53:31] <The_Vulture> and setting something to null outside a try/catch only to assume it's non-null afterwards is broken.
[02:53:47] <The_Vulture> Since you'll just end up getting two exceptions (the caught one, then a NullPointerException)
[02:53:51] <tieTYT> i think learning about them would help me understand that better
[02:55:58] <tieTYT> also i know you can use the class loader to load properties file that reside in a jar
[02:56:13] <tieTYT> i want to learn what's going on there
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[02:56:39] <meatmanek> Hmm.
[02:56:57] <L----D> I know little about classpath, cause using Eclipse i need not to configure such thing in OS
[02:57:28] <L----D> I just install the JDK and run
[02:57:31] <L----D> :D
[02:58:02] <tieTYT> yeah i'm sure we've never had a question about stuff not working due to eclipse hiding how the classpath works
[02:58:30] <meatmanek> very well-masked sarcasm there.
[02:58:42] <meatmanek> and yes I realize the irony in that statement.
[02:58:46] <The_Vulture> tieTYT: loading stuff from jars (or any other ClassLoader source) - java.lang.Class : getResource / getResourceAsStream
[02:59:13] <The_Vulture> I'm not aware of [m]any tutorials that cover the ClassLoader hierarchy in detail.
[02:59:29] <The_Vulture> just reading the javadocs for the ClassLoader class and related things is a start
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[03:00:37] <tieTYT> alright i'll try that
[03:01:37] <zarmi82> hey ppl...i've got a question..once i've written my program..how do i actualy make it into a standalone application...should i convert it into a *.jar file?
[03:02:14] <The_Vulture> zarmi82: you could create an executable jar if you wanted, sure.
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[03:02:36] <L----D> and you can make a shortcut
[03:02:56] <zarmi82> hmm i've never done it before..I'm using Eclipse...I can go Export then into a Jar file...is that it?
[03:03:38] <IMTheNachoMan> hey
[03:04:48] <The_Vulture> zarmi82: if you mean an executable jar, sure. It's not really "standalone" though - you still need a JRE to run the jar
[03:05:00] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: dude.
[03:05:07] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: How did it go?
[03:05:57] <zarmi82> yeah....i just realized that doubleclicking doesnt work :-)
[03:06:05] <zarmi82> do i ned to compiler the jar file still?
[03:06:10] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: not too bad. Was there 2-6:30, interviewed with 4 tech people & 1 hr type. Which was all the interviews I think I could have.
[03:06:36] <The_Vulture> Could have answered questions better - just a bit nervous, but we'll see. Should hear back by next Wednesday in time to take IBM's offer if Microsoft aren't interested.
[03:07:10] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Excellent.
[03:07:15] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Good luck.
[03:07:21] <The_Vulture> thanks - how's things with you?
[03:07:33] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Based on other ratios, I'd say that three or less would've meant "thanks for coming, but no".
[03:07:37] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Busy.
[03:07:42] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: I'm leaving now, actually.
[03:07:52] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Just saw you here and figured I'd check whassup.
[03:07:56] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Talk to you later.
[03:08:08] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: May the Force be with you.
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[03:08:40] <IMTheNachoMan> The_Vulture had a job interview at microsoft?
[03:09:14] <L----D> MS want someone doing Java?
[03:09:56] <zarmi82> i tried doing java file.jar in command prompt or javac file.jar  and    javac  file   i'm just getting" Exception in main Thread no CLassDefFoundError" :-S can anyone tell me what i'm doing wrong plz ? has it got to do with my classpath?
[03:10:19] <pr3d4t0r> w00t!
[03:10:27] <pr3d4t0r> LogCop is on SourceForge now.
[03:10:35] <pr3d4t0r> Meh.
[03:10:56] <L----D> hi,pr3, URL?
[03:11:50] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: okey dokes. Catch you later (yeah - after I got back from my 4th interview (having had 2 tech, 1 HR, and another tech) 3 out of the 4 other applicants had already been shown the door)
[03:11:58] <The_Vulture> IMTheNachoMan: yes.
[03:11:59] <The_Vulture> L----D: no
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[03:12:05] <jwormy> oi!
[03:12:18] <IMTheNachoMan> The_Vulture lol, let the queue build and then answer huh?
[03:12:47] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: though they're going to be busy - 5 people each session, two sessions a day for the whole week. A couple of the guys doing honours here are also interviewing (one this afternoon, another on Friday)
[03:12:50] <L----D> MS in our country is shit, just want people do Localization
[03:12:53] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r is lol permitted (since thats also something big in the aol lingo) (and i must point out i learned to talk like that w/o using aol)
[03:13:00] <jwormy> argh me and my roomate have an ms manager after us...
[03:13:04] <pr3d4t0r> L----D: Not yet.
[03:13:06] <jwormy> we're running like the devil
[03:13:10] <pr3d4t0r> L----D: We need to upload the software.
[03:13:13] <IMTheNachoMan> jwormy why?
[03:13:14] <The_Vulture> L----D: The interviews were for positions in Redmond. I'm in Australia at the moment - it'd mean moving, and I'm fine with that.
[03:13:27] <pr3d4t0r> L----D: I need to talk to kinabalu, Bevin and Lars_G first.
[03:13:29] <jwormy> IMTheNachoMan, beacuse i'm well on my way to having my own decent development firm
[03:13:37] <IMTheNachoMan> jwormy oh cool
[03:13:37] <pr3d4t0r> L----D: Tomorrow :)
[03:13:46] <IMTheNachoMan> can i ask how old everyone is here? whoever is willing to answer
[03:13:46] <jwormy> IMTheNachoMan, and i have about 2 yrs worth of control work to do...  and couldn't be happier working from home for myself..
[03:13:49] <IMTheNachoMan> just out of curiosity
[03:13:53] <gabb> Someone please help me for the love of god! I'm getting a NPE here: ((Boolean)topology[i][j]).booleanValue() and topology is a Object[][] - length is fine, anyone got a idea?
[03:14:00] <L----D> pr3, OK, we will wait another day
[03:14:14] <The_Vulture> gabb: RTFM for NullPointerException
[03:14:15] <jwormy> The_Vulture, best of luck to you..
[03:14:20] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: I'm sure you'll smoke them.  You're a good guy, as much as I hate to admit it ;)
[03:14:22] <IMTheNachoMan> The_Vulture yeah good luck
[03:14:30] <jwormy> The_Vulture, hopefully you'll get to experience why the rest of the world hates the US :)
[03:14:45] <IMTheNachoMan> jwormy and might i ask why you THINK that is?
[03:15:12] <jwormy> ~tell IMTheNachoMan about politics
[03:15:12] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, politics are off topic.  try #politics.
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[03:15:21] <gabb> The_Vulture, thanks
[03:15:24] <IMTheNachoMan> jwormy haha, yeah your right, sorry
[03:15:30] <L----D> IBM in our is somehow , shit too, cause no software dept.
[03:15:57] <IMTheNachoMan> ~The_Vulture
[03:15:58] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, The_Vulture is a bit of an arse, according to http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=132546
[03:16:42] <zarmi82> hmm i've tgried doing javac file.jar in command prompt, windows, and its just saying invalid flag, whats the flag that needs to be added when compiling a .jar file, does anyone know?
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[03:17:34] <zarmi82> also....if i've created a jar file and my code was using an external jar file....does taht jar file get added to my jar file ??
[03:17:39] <L----D> wow, i've never known there is a Politics channel
[03:17:48] <IMTheNachoMan> so The_Vulture is bout 22
[03:17:49] <MrPrimate> does anyone know how I can have something like a FileOutputStream, but where I can write it in a non sequential order ?
[03:17:57] <IMTheNachoMan> ~IMTheNachoMan
[03:17:58] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, I have no idea what IMTheNachoMan is.
[03:18:06] <MrPrimate> like I want to replace parts of the file but not write the entire file in sequential order
[03:18:25] <pr3d4t0r> See you later, kids.
[03:18:36] <The_Vulture> IMTheNachoMan: 22 as of 26th of August.
[03:19:00] <IMTheNachoMan> The_Vulture cool, where you live?
[03:19:13] <IMTheNachoMan> The_Vulture and happy belated birthday, haha
[03:19:19] <gverig> MrPrimate: That kinda violates the concept of a stream...
[03:19:28] <gverig> MrPrimate: Are you talking about RandomAccessFile?
[03:19:49] <gverig> ~javadoc RandomAccessFile
[03:19:50] <javabot> gverig, please see java.io.RandomAccessFile: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/io/RandomAccessFile.html
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[03:19:50] <IMTheNachoMan> id assume youd have to use seom sorta buffer
[03:20:09] <IMTheNachoMan> i suppose that would work too
[03:20:13] <jwormy> IMTheNachoMan, i'm 21..
[03:20:19] <_m0O> in real life scenarios do you people program to JSP or servlets ?/
[03:20:29] <_m0O> what do you prefer?
[03:20:35] <jwormy> servlets..
[03:20:36] <_m0O> for a J2EE architecture ?
[03:20:42] <_m0O> any reason why doing so ?
[03:20:42] <gverig> _m0O: o_O depending on the real scenario ;)
[03:20:45] <IMTheNachoMan> jwormy in college? got a job lined up?
[03:20:53] <_m0O> i was thinking to use servlets
[03:21:03] <_m0O> and buiild a templating package to handle the html area
[03:21:06] <_m0O> would that be good?
[03:21:06] <jwormy> IMTheNachoMan, im in college yes.. and no i already explained i dont' wnat a job..  i do contract work..i work for myself :)  its fantastic
[03:21:07] <IMTheNachoMan> ~servlets
[03:21:07] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, servlets is http://www.servlets.com
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[03:21:17] <IMTheNachoMan> jwormy oh ok, sorry forgot
[03:21:19] <gverig> _m0O: as a rule of thumb, you do not put logic into a JSP and you do not put HTML into a servlet
[03:21:27] <_m0O> yes
[03:21:35] <jwormy> _m0O, seperation of different layers ..
[03:21:37] <IMTheNachoMan> what is a servlet
[03:21:39] <_m0O> i know that :) but how would you separate logic and presentation
[03:21:42] <_m0O> from servlets?
[03:21:51] <_m0O> i was thinking making a templating class?
[03:21:59] <_m0O> would that be sufficient?/
[03:22:14] <gverig> _m0O: you process your request in a servlet and then use dispatcher to pass request along to a JSP
[03:22:30] * gverig hates JSP's guts
[03:22:36] <IMTheNachoMan> ahh
[03:22:40] <IMTheNachoMan> ok im out guys
[03:22:42] <IMTheNachoMan> back to work
[03:22:44] <IMTheNachoMan> peace everyone
[03:22:45] <_m0O> the dispatcher is included withint he J2EE?
[03:22:53] <ghatak> Hi, i have a weird problem, when i do an import test.*; i get an error for one of the classes, the error is 'can not access', if i do import test.A; and import test.B; then no errors, all works fine. what am i doing wrong?
[03:23:08] <gverig> _m0O: yes :) it's a part of Servlet API
[03:23:12] <jstrforgets> Hey people.  I have a quick JSP problem if some one would be kind enough help me.  I'm using tomcat to serve my jsp pages, and the version on my home computer passes Null values of Strings to the browser as "" (ie empty) where as the version at my uni passes Null values to the browser as "Null".  Does anyone know if there is some flag that I can change that controls this activity? - thanks heaps
[03:23:14] <Drone> View joaopaulo's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8575
[03:23:17] <_m0O> what I am aware of, if you choose the JSP aarchiteectre, once you make ur ear file
[03:23:19] <joaopaulo> somebody can take a look?
[03:23:27] <_m0O> it will automaticlaly genrate the servlet sublayer
[03:23:41] <_m0O> i thought when using JSP you don't have to worry with servlett
[03:23:45] <gverig> _m0O: Yes, that is correct.
[03:24:03] <_m0O> but to make a multiple tier system you use both
[03:24:07] <_m0O> thats what ur saying?
[03:24:21] <gverig> So what you do is you create a servlet (or find somehting like Struts or whatever) and map it to /request/servlet
[03:24:28] <_m0O> okay
[03:24:40] <_m0O> I am getting ideas for my final project thats why I am asking :)
[03:24:52] <gverig> in your HTML forms, you target actions at the servlet ("action="/request/servlet")
[03:24:59] <_m0O> yea
[03:25:20] <gverig> Then you process input in the servlet and dispatch request to the JSP. Let me check API calls, not sure
[03:25:22] <_m0O> and in that servlet you use dispatcher to pass that request to a jsp page
[03:25:28] <_m0O> thats okay :)
[03:25:40] <_m0O> it acts like a templating thing
[03:25:44] <_m0O> pretty nice
[03:26:18] <_m0O> alot of work within java
[03:27:16] <gverig> _m0O: On servletrequest you can getRequestDispatcher(...) and then do dispatcher.forward(....) to your JSP page
[03:27:23] <_m0O> aha
[03:27:30] <_m0O> a built in templating wizard
[03:27:32] <_m0O> very nice
[03:27:37] <_m0O> very :)
[03:27:54] <gverig> _m0O: Well, not really. It's more like ... well, internal request dispatcher :)
[03:28:01] <_m0O> heh
[03:28:06] <_m0O> if you want to think of it that way
[03:28:17] <_m0O> easier then mixing up code and html together
[03:28:28] <_m0O> let the beans do the logic
[03:28:32] <gverig> _m0O: Well, it has really nothing to do with templates, you can .forward to another servlet if you want
[03:28:34] <_m0O> and let the servlet do the requests
[03:28:42] <_m0O> and let the jsps do the presentation
[03:28:49] <_m0O> oh
[03:28:52] <gverig> _m0O: That's the general idea
[03:28:59] <_m0O> why would someone .forward to another servlet?
[03:29:13] <_m0O> for moduleS?/
[03:29:22] <_m0O> modular purpose?
[03:29:28] <gverig> _m0O: there can be multiple reasons
[03:30:19] <gverig> _m0O: modularity is one, separation of responsibilities is another... You might want to have multiple servlets for action processing and one for rendering control...
[03:30:40] <gverig> _m0O: As I said, I hate JSPs and I use other technologies that I hate less
[03:30:55] <_m0O> hehe
[03:30:58] <gverig> _m0O: So I did not have much "hands on" with dispatchers.
[03:31:03] <jstrforgets> ok no response from that question, perhaps it was a stupid one.  Is there some way at all short of calling a function that will block all Null Strings been sent to the browser?
[03:31:20] <_m0O> np thax for giving me the idea at least:)
[03:31:27] <gverig> jstrforgets: I don't think so.
[03:31:30] <_m0O> i was going to do somethign completelty different
[03:31:41] <jstrforgets> I scared at the possiblity of rewriting massive pages of code
[03:31:44] <_m0O> but thax for pointing out about dispatches and the whole thing
[03:31:45] <gverig> jstrforgets: You need to pre-process your stuff.
[03:31:48] <jstrforgets> thanks
[03:32:30] <jstrforgets> thats a shame... i wonder why tomcat in jbuilder blocks the output of Null strings... strange
[03:33:42] <gverig> jstrforgets: Really? I would assume it would be consistent. You can compare generated Servlet code...
[03:34:02] <jstrforgets> also meens i have to change all my sexy <jsp:.... tags to crappy <% bean.fucntio(adfaflkja.... tags
[03:34:24] <jstrforgets> good idea
[03:34:27] <gverig> jstrforgets: Or you can write your own tags.
[03:35:10] <jstrforgets> hmm our lecturer did mention something about tags.. but i think it followed with "its really difficult so I wont cover it"
[03:37:01] <gverig> bull... especially if you are working with J2EE 1.4... You can write your own tag files in JSP
[03:37:09] <gverig> basically, .tag files
[03:37:28] <X-Scale> idpromnut: i'm experimenting with IntelliJ IDEA as you told me....pretty decent platform
[03:37:35] <forsaken> what class do you use to write to a file in java? (the easiest?)
[03:38:01] <gverig> forsaken: FileWriter?
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[03:38:47] <gverig> forsaken: depends on what kind of file... Either what I said or FileOutputStream, for binary.
[03:39:09] <forsaken> just strings to a text file
[03:39:36] <jstrforgets> gverig: thanks for your help... im googling tags now...
[03:39:47] <gverig> jstrforgets: np
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[03:40:26] <prolificgnosis> hellO?
[03:40:54] <prolificgnosis> anyone here?
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[03:42:54] <prolificgnosis> ...
[03:43:21] <prolificgnosis> asynototic complexity anyone?
[03:43:44] <gverig> ~ask
[03:43:45] <javabot> The Ask To Ask protocol wastes more bandwidth than any version of the Ask protocol, so just ask your question.
[03:44:26] <tieTYT> the people that ask to ask half the time dont' think they're asking to ask and half the time don't know what it means to ask to ask
[03:44:56] <delvinj> javabot, my foot hurts
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[03:44:56] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'when i do this it hurts' might be appropriate:
[03:44:58] <javabot> Well don't do that then!
[03:46:31] <forsaken> Why would        FileWriter out = new FileWriter("outfile");
[03:46:31] <forsaken>  out.write(1);        create a file called 'outfile', but be blank?
[03:46:46] <tieTYT> forsaken: rtfm
[03:46:50] <tieTYT> it's because you didn't close it probably
[03:46:55] <tieTYT> now read the tutorial
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[03:48:16] <rizzo> Working with a JEditorPane to display some text.  Feeding that into a JScrollPane.  However when I launch the window, the pane is shown scrolled to the bottom, rather than at the top.
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[03:55:09] <jstrforgets> gverig: yeah i think you are right, tags are the way to go... you have saved me so much work and nicer looking code, I just feal so greatful
[03:55:39] <gverig> jstrforgets: np, that's what we are here for... when we are here :)
[03:55:57] <jstrforgets> :)
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[03:57:02] <cowbud> what is the keyword to open standard out with say Writer?
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[03:59:10] <gverig> cowbud: ... something like new StreamWriter(System.out)?
[03:59:19] <cowbud> ahh System.out
[03:59:22] <cowbud> clever and obvious
[03:59:23] <cowbud> damn
[03:59:59] <gverig> ohh... I thought the keyword was Writer and it was "standard out" :)
[04:03:05] <cowbud> hah well System.out didn't work rofl
[04:03:51] <gverig> cowbud: well... System.out does work.
[04:04:27] <cowbud> when I do writer=new FileWriter(System.out); it complains..
[04:04:38] <cowbud> System.out to print does..
[04:04:48] <cowbud> I suppose I could just do that instead open it but that adds more shit
[04:04:54] <gverig> cowbud: And since when does FileWriter accept streams?
[04:05:03] * cowbud shrugs
[04:05:04] <cowbud> heheh
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[04:05:19] <pnm> hi
[04:05:28] <gverig> cowbud: System.out.println("I need to read some javadocs");
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[04:06:45] <pnm> I'm writing a client for a bizarrely implemented server, and I'd like to write in in java, but I'm not sure whether java is low-level enough..
[04:07:35] <pnm> I need to be able to send some tcp packets with the SYN flag set, to certain closed ports in a certain order (as a 'port knock') in order to get the server to open another port for the main communication
[04:08:30] <gverig> pnm: I don't think java is that low level.
[04:08:33] <pnm> so my question is... can I generate these SYN packets from java?
[04:08:52] <prolificgnosis> anyone know the asymptotic complexity of tostring for a linked list
[04:09:06] <pnm> gverig: ah :(
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[04:09:42] <prolificgnosis> anyone?
[04:09:51] <cowbud> gverig: hrmm so you are telling me there is no way to just open stdout for writer and have it go to stdout I mean I can open /dev/stdout but I don't want to make it depend on that..
[04:09:52] <gverig> prolificgnosis: I am not sure what asymptotic complexity is, but .toString for a linked list is linear
[04:10:07] <prolificgnosis> runtime basically
[04:10:17] <pr3d4t0r> Hello.
[04:10:25] <gverig> cowbud: Nope, I did not tell you that. You said it. That's a lie
[04:10:50] <prolificgnosis> is there anyway to improve that?
[04:10:58] <gverig> cowbud: If you need a writer (nice one), do something like new PrintWriter(new StreamWriter(System.out));
[04:11:06] <gverig> pr3d4t0r: howdy
[04:11:37] <gverig> prolificgnosis: ? Improve linear? Not likely...
[04:12:35] <prolificgnosis> do you know the formula for minimum number of nodes in an AVL tree?
[04:13:15] <cowbud> gverig: ok thanks
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[04:14:33] <prolificgnosis> anyone
[04:15:00] <gverig> prolificgnosis: WTF is AVL tree? And why does it have a minimum number of nodes?
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[04:15:37] <prolificgnosis> an avl tree is a tree where the balance factor differs by no more than 1
[04:15:50] <prolificgnosis> it has all the rules of a normal bst
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[04:17:46] <gverig> prolificgnosis: sorry, you'll have to ask somebody else. I have not heard those terms in years
[04:17:49] <xprment626> Can somebody show me a short snippet of code using java.net.HttpURLConnection? I can't find any simple examples on the web.
[04:18:51] <gverig> xprment626: What do you need to do, Stitch?
[04:19:33] <xprment626> gverig, I'm just trying to learn something new. Simiply trying to request a webpage.
[04:21:28] <gverig> xprment626: Basically, do a new URL("http://google.com").openConnection()
[04:22:07] <gverig> xprment626: the URLConnection you will get will be HttpURLConnections
[04:22:16] <gverig> night everyone, im outa here.
[04:22:26] <xprment626> thanks a lot...goodnight
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[04:27:17] <|Agent> How does an instance of an inner class return its containing instance? Is there some variation on "this"?
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[04:29:40] <jcscoobyrs> Anyone know a good in-memory JNDI Service Provider that can be accessed over a network?
[04:34:19] <Talden> OuterClassName.this
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[04:36:17] <|Agent> Just found it in the spec, but thanks.
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[04:40:44] <xprment626> do I use HttpURLConnection to send responses to an html page?
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[05:10:07] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Ping...
[05:10:17] <slava> pong
[05:10:45] <pr3d4t0r> slava: How the @#$!@!! do you set up CVS access for a brand new project on SourceForge?
[05:10:59] <slava> its already set up
[05:11:06] <slava> export CVS_RSH=ssh
[05:11:08] <slava> export CVSROOT=...
[05:11:11] <slava> cvs import ...
[05:11:30] <pr3d4t0r> slava: The CVSROOT string requires a module.  We have no modules, only the project name.
[05:11:39] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Unless that's the module name that I'm about to import.
[05:11:42] <slava> the project name is the module.
[05:11:51] <pr3d4t0r> slava: They quote them separately.
[05:11:53] <slava> eg, factor's CVSROOT is :ext:spestov at cvs dot sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/factor
[05:12:11] <pr3d4t0r> slava: OKi, I'll try that.
[05:12:14] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Next...
[05:12:36] <pr3d4t0r> slava: How do you put the DSA key on their CVS server?  It has no shell access.
[05:12:47] <slava> there's a web form for it on the web site
[05:14:42] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Do you recall where it is?  I've been going in circles for an hour.
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[05:16:05] <slava> https://sourceforge.net/account/editsshkeys.php
[05:16:51] <pr3d4t0r> slava: How did you find it?
[05:16:56] <pr3d4t0r> slava: I was in Admin/CVS
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[05:17:16] <slava> account options, edit ssh keys
[05:17:25] <slava> its per-user, not per-project
[05:17:47] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Ah!
[05:17:51] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Cool, thanks.
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[05:20:14] <alexander> helllo
[05:20:21] <slava> pr3d4t0r: what project is this?
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[05:22:43] <Drone> View alexander's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8576
[05:23:03] <alexander> anyone care to help me with this odd problem?
[05:23:22] <slava> Hand.Node does not implement Comparable
[05:23:23] <pr3d4t0r> slava: LogCop
[05:23:37] <slava> pr3d4t0r: i'm coding some java for the first time in several months.
[05:24:17] <alexander> the problem is that it seems to
[05:24:25] <slava> seems to?
[05:24:31] <alexander> public class Hand<E extends Comparable> implements Multiset<E> {
[05:24:31] <alexander> private class Node<E> {
[05:24:32] <alexander> 	E data;
[05:24:42] <slava> alexander: i don't see an 'implements Comparable' there.
[05:24:43] <alexander> thats a <E> data;
[05:24:47] <Amnesiac> hey pr3d4t0r
[05:25:17] <alexander> but the way i have the defaults E makes it so E has to extend comparable
[05:25:31] <slava> whenever E extends comparable or not is irrelevant.
[05:25:39] <slava> your Node class does not implement Comparable.
[05:25:40] <alexander> ah i see
[05:25:43] <slava> you're casting it to Comaprable.
[05:25:45] <alexander> i'll fix that
[05:25:45] <slava> end of discussion
[05:25:51] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac!
[05:26:00] <pr3d4t0r> slava: https://sourceforge.net/projects/logcop
[05:26:53] <slava> pr3d4t0r: bash, awk? hehe
[05:26:58] <pr3d4t0r> slava: ;)
[05:27:00] <alexander> wait... I'm not comparing a node... I'm comparing an object that a node variable is pointing to
[05:27:05] <pr3d4t0r> slava: That's the point.
[05:27:17] <pr3d4t0r> slava: This is intended as a tool to enhance other stuff.
[05:27:19] <slava> alexander: then it does not implement comparable.
[05:27:26] <alexander> odd
[05:27:38] <pr3d4t0r> slava: A lot more sensical than trying to do this in Python or Java.
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[05:27:46] <pr3d4t0r> slava: It may become Perl one day.
[05:27:53] <alexander> since the object does implement comparable
[05:28:20] <cored> lo pr3d4t0r
[05:28:40] <pr3d4t0r> cored!
[05:28:48] * pr3d4t0r smacks alexander
[05:29:13] <cored> slava: hey
[05:29:20] <pr3d4t0r> alexander: So extrapolate that to the node; you need to compare those internal objects, not the nodes themselves.
[05:29:41] <alexander> right.
[05:29:49] <alexander> i think the problem is that the object is null
[05:29:53] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Are they really taking five hours to update the repository?
[05:29:54] <cored> pr3d4t0r: you had create a monster :-)
[05:30:02] <slava> pr3d4t0r: anoncvs, yes.
[05:30:04] <alexander> since i was comparing the internal object
[05:30:14] <alexander> although null would throw a diff exception
[05:30:15] <pr3d4t0r> slava: The DEV CVS is not updated, it seems.
[05:30:18] <alexander> meh
[05:30:29] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Never mind; it is now.
[05:30:52] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Thanks.
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[05:37:03] <slake> What is the most correct way to disable a JButton?
[05:37:27] <slake> the disable() method doesn't seems to be depreciated
[05:38:45] <slake> Actually.. just found it on sun.com. setEnabled()
[05:38:47] <slake> thanks anyway...
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[05:39:22] <pr3d4t0r> ...
[05:39:30] <mohadib> howdy pr3d4t0r
[05:39:34] <pr3d4t0r> slava: How long does it take to import a project with five or six files?
[05:39:41] <pr3d4t0r> slava: It seems to be hung.
[05:39:54] <slava> it should take about 2 seconds.
[05:40:03] <slava> did you set the CVS_RSH variable to ssh?
[05:40:40] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Yeah, I use CVS all the time.
[05:40:51] <pr3d4t0r> slava: I just can't figure out how to use it with their weird configuration.
[05:41:07] <pr3d4t0r> slava: It just hangs.
[05:41:19] <IMTheNachoMan> hola seniors
[05:42:44] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Damn -- it took it five minutes, then it started working.  Thanks again.
[05:42:52] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Is SourceForge stable nowadays?
[05:42:57] <pr3d4t0r> slava: It used to suck a bit.
[05:43:29] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Incidentally, if you're running your Mac mini with SSH ports exposed to the world, you probably want to run LogCop :)
[05:43:40] <pr3d4t0r> slava: SSH or HTTP.
[05:43:41] <slava> i'm not running ssh.
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[05:47:09] <alex777> hey
[05:47:13] <alex777> I have a quick question
[05:47:22] <alex777> I'm generating an image in a servlet
[05:47:31] <alex777> and outputting it in an output stream
[05:47:40] <alex777> but I get an illegalstateexception
[05:48:36] <alex777> even though the image does get displayed
[05:48:42] <alex777> any idea what I'm doing wrong ?
[05:49:31] <slake> I am writing a simple cardgame for school, it is a very basic swing gui, almost completely event driven..
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[05:49:50] <slake> and I want to just delay execution for a few miliseconds for my animations
[05:50:05] <slake> does java have a simple sleep() function or something like that?
[05:50:09] <alex777> yep
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[05:50:25] <alex777> I remember seeing that somewhere a few days ago
[05:50:33] <slake> I don't want to deal with threads, is there a way to simply halt my current thread for a few seconds?
[05:50:46] <alex777> that I don't know
[05:51:02] <slake> hmm.
[05:51:08] <slake> I have to turn this in in a few hours
[05:51:29] <slake> and it would look so much better with animation
[05:51:30] <alex777> do you have a method that does the animation ?
[05:51:40] <slake> yup
[05:51:50] <slake> <-- a bit new to Java
[05:52:01] <alex777> if the method is synchronized, then I think if you sleep in there, it should just put the current thread to sleep
[05:52:13] <alex777> but I'm not 100% sure
[05:52:22] <slake> I mean, I could do something sloppy like make a tight loop and keep checking the clock and not advancing till the next tick or something
[05:53:02] <slake> don't I have to import some big thread libs to even use sleep()
[05:54:00] <alex777> I think so
[05:54:05] <alex777> java.lang.Thread
[05:55:23] <slake> oh man :(
[05:55:33] <slake> it looks so ugly now
[05:55:49] <slake> Java just chugs along suffling cards and the whole frame flickers
[05:55:54] <IMTheNachoMan> ah ha, jtable cells can render HTML
[05:55:56] <IMTheNachoMan> thats beautiful
[05:56:21] <Logi> slake: there is actual animation playing functionality in java
[05:56:38] <Logi> slake: but I haven't used it. media something
[05:56:47] <Logi> slake: I'm sure there is a thread on it in the tutorial
[05:57:13] <slake> I will look into it, thanks
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[05:57:34] <MrEntropy> yo
[05:57:41] <alex777> Logi are you familiar with servlets and renderding images in servlets ?
[05:58:02] <pr3d4t0r> ls
[05:58:02] <javabot> pr3d4t0r: wrong window, pal
[05:58:06] <pr3d4t0r> He, he, he...
[05:58:12] <Logi> alex777: uh, servlet, yeah, but rendering images not really
[05:58:23] <IMTheNachoMan> wait you cant do ls in irc? darn
[05:58:27] <Logi> pr3d4t0r: dude, I think this javabot guy just dissed you
[05:58:34] <IMTheNachoMan> ok i need adivce or a better method if anyone can think of one
[05:58:37] <alex777> well, I use an outputstream for it, and I get an IllegalStateException
[05:58:52] <alex777> and I'm just not sure what I'm doing wrong, googled it and everything
[05:59:39] <Logi> alex777: so basically you have a servlet whose get/post method sets the mime type to the appropriate value and then starts outputting binary image data?
[05:59:47] <alex777> yes
[06:00:40] <Logi> alex777: are you closing the stream, maybe implicitly, while you are writing to it?
[06:00:58] <Logi> alex777: that would put it in an invalid state for writing
[06:01:15] <alex777> hm, I don't think so, but let me make sure of that
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[06:01:26] <pr3d4t0r> Logi: I'll show him!
[06:01:27] <alex777> I have a method which generates/returns me the image
[06:01:32] <pr3d4t0r> ~leave motherfucker
[06:01:32] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'help leave' might be appropriate:
[06:01:33] <alex777> then I write it to the stream
[06:01:34] <javabot> pr3d4t0r, help leave is see 'help abuse'.
[06:01:37] <pr3d4t0r> ~leave
[06:01:37] <javabot> I'll be back in one hour
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[06:01:45] <pr3d4t0r> Logi: See?
[06:01:49] <Logi> alex777: perhaps what you wantis a minimal test case which just returns a simple constant image
[06:01:51] <pr3d4t0r> Logi: He wimped out.
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[06:01:59] <pr3d4t0r> ~invite javabot
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[06:02:08] <mathman0> guys, if i have a package, as in a directory with source files in it, and they depend on a package in a jar file, how can i compile this without extracting the jar?
[06:02:09] <IMTheNachoMan> wait i havent doen anything
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[06:02:14] <Logi> pr3d4t0r: yeah, a polite invitation to leave shows him who's boss!
[06:02:27] <IMTheNachoMan> ?
[06:02:59] * pr3d4t0r eyes javabot
[06:03:11] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: Do as I say.
[06:03:11] * javabot does as I say
[06:03:17] <alex777> Logi I don't close the stream anywhere else until the image is written to the stream
[06:03:23] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: Do IMTheNachoMan
[06:03:23] * javabot does IMTheNachoMan
[06:03:25] <alex777> and after that I close the stream
[06:03:30] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: Bomb IMTheNachoMan
[06:03:30] * javabot drops a humongous exploding turd on IMTheNachoMan
[06:03:37] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: Thank you.
[06:03:37] <javabot> You're welcome.
[06:03:43] <alex777> this is how I set that:
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[06:03:47] <alex777> response.setContentType("image/png");
[06:03:47] <alex777> 		OutputStream outputStream = response.getOutputStream();
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[06:04:02] <Logi> alex777: yeah, but perhaps you do something to the, what was it, HttpServletResult that implicitly closes it?
[06:04:03] * IMTheNachoMan doesnt know if he should pay javabot or have javabot pay him
[06:04:05] <alex777> I do that right when the servlet is called
[06:04:12] <Frederick> is anyone here familiar with free-context grammar simplifications?
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[06:04:29] <Logi> ooh! homework!
[06:04:38] <pr3d4t0r> Frederick: I am but I have to get dinner; if nobody's answered/help within the next hour let me know.
[06:04:47] <pr3d4t0r> Frederick: I'll be back by then.
[06:04:55] <Frederick> pr3d4t0r, Im afraid I dont have 1 hoir but thx a lot
[06:04:58] <pr3d4t0r> s/but/about/
[06:05:05] <pr3d4t0r> Frederick: Dragon book!!
[06:05:06] <Logi> Frederick: I used to, but I've not used that stuff much since uni.
[06:05:29] <slava> never had to write a parser?
[06:05:34] <pr3d4t0r> LOL
[06:05:44] * Logi hands Frederick a pair of armor gloves
[06:05:46] <Frederick> Logi, I cant find a freaking way to simplify this grammar -> http://rafb.net/paste/results/LZuQtc89.html
[06:05:49] <pr3d4t0r> slava: I've been a member of SourceForge since my birthday, 1999.
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[06:06:01] <Logi> slava: strangely, I've never needed to write anything but incredibly simple ones
[06:06:23] <alex777> Logi I don't use the HttpServletResult
[06:06:50] <IMTheNachoMan> i for the life of me cant remember how grammer works
[06:07:08] <alex777> I tried creating the outputstream right at the end of the servlet, so it shouldn't be affected by anything else, same error
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[06:07:57] <IMTheNachoMan> ok im making a chat program, for the client text area, im going to use a jtable, reason i want to do this is so, there is a distinct column for the names of the people, and also so when long text is wrapped, the wrap starts after the name if that makes sense
[06:08:03] <IMTheNachoMan> can anyone think of a better way?
[06:08:09] <slava> write a custom widget
[06:08:11] <slava> jtable won't scale
[06:08:13] <Kane_Hart> should this work
[06:08:15] <Kane_Hart> java -Xms512m -Xmx768m -cp bsf.jar:bsh-2.0.jar:jython.jar:c3p0-0.9.0.jar:mysql-connector-java-3.1.10-bin.jar:l2jserver.jar net.sf.l2j.Server > /home/kanechart/l2j/server.txt
[06:08:16] <slava> esp. if every cell is html
[06:08:25] <IMTheNachoMan> slava what you mean scale?
[06:08:31] <slava> i mean, perform well with lots of rows
[06:08:38] <IMTheNachoMan> slava ahh
[06:08:47] <IMTheNachoMan> slava what does a widget mean?
[06:08:48] <IMTheNachoMan> ~widget
[06:08:48] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, widget is a generic term for a GUI component that you manipulate.  Java calls them 'components' in some cases.  Widget is language-neutral.  JFrame, Button, JScrollPane, etc. are examples of Java widgets.
[06:08:57] <IMTheNachoMan> oh
[06:09:02] <IMTheNachoMan> i mean i COULD
[06:09:09] <IMTheNachoMan> have a jlabel with html table in it
[06:09:12] <IMTheNachoMan> but that seems
[06:09:14] <Logi> alex777: are you calling setContentType before getOutputStream ?
[06:09:15] <IMTheNachoMan> like bad programming
[06:09:24] <slava> no, i don't mean a jlabel with an html table in it.
[06:09:28] <alex777> yes
[06:09:33] <slava> i mean a custom component that shows two columns, one for names and one with wrapped text
[06:09:33] <alex777> Logi: yes
[06:09:38] <Logi> IMTheNachoMan: you could also not
[06:09:39] <Logi> IMTheNachoMan: split you
[06:09:46] <Logi> IMTheNachoMan: sentences among
[06:09:48] <Logi> IMTheNachoMan: multiple
[06:09:50] <Logi> IMTheNachoMan: lines
[06:10:05] <IMTheNachoMan> man i just cant make people happy in this channle can i
[06:10:10] <IMTheNachoMan> Logi ok i will sorry bout that
[06:10:26] <IMTheNachoMan> its a bad habbit i know, il try to stop
[06:10:51] <IMTheNachoMan> slava i cant think of how i would do that, any leads, examples, ideas?
[06:11:03] <Logi> alex777: how about a very small test case which sets the MIME type, outputs a string of 0s and stops, then put your functionality back in slowly and see where it dies
[06:11:07] <slava> public class MyWidget extends JComponent { /* stuff goes here */ }
[06:11:53] <IMTheNachoMan> Frederick hey, do you have an example of grammer simplication, i gota see if i can remember it
[06:12:05] <Frederick> IMTheNachoMan, http://www.cs.umbc.edu/~squire/s01-451/cs451_l16.html
[06:12:26] <alex777> Logi: output the 0s in the outputstream ?
[06:12:32] <slava> hmm
[06:12:33] <Logi> alex777: yeah
[06:12:37] <alex777> I'll try it
[06:12:39] <Frederick> http://www.cs.umbc.edu/~squire/s01-451/cs451_l15.html
[06:12:41] <slava> i've written maybe two dozen parsers and never actually used a lot of the thoery behind it
[06:12:43] <Logi> alex777: it'll be invalid image data, but not until you get to the client
[06:12:49] <Logi> alex777: a *very* simple servlet
[06:13:33] <alex777> well, the exception happens when I do this: OutputStream outputStream = response.getOutputStream();
[06:13:41] <alex777> so it's not when I write it out
[06:14:44] <Logi> alex777: and that's something like the second line of your doGet method?
[06:15:22] <slava> after writing these parsers i've also realized that simple prefix and postfix is the best, no need to complicate things wtih silly sugar
[06:15:54] <alex777> Logi: yes, but I use the service method for the servlet
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[06:18:40] <Logi> alex777: do you extend HttpServlet?
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[06:19:48] <Logi> alex777: please note the"There's no need to override this method." in the javadocs for service
[06:20:33] <alex777> I do extend HttpServlet
[06:21:05] <Logi> alex777: you probably want to override doGet to return your data and doPost to call doGet (or vice versa orwhatever)
[06:21:17] <IMTheNachoMan> anyone know of any tutorials for a custom jcomponent, i need to see one in example to get an idea of what im tryin to do
[06:21:25] <alex777> Logi: I found the problem
[06:21:53] <alex777> the servlet was included in a jsp and it was messing with the request
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[06:22:24] <Logi> alex777: still, you should not do this in a service method
[06:22:48] <alex777> yea, I'll change that
[06:23:23] <alex777> probably have doGet return the image
[06:24:00] <alex777> now I just need to find a way to put the image generated on a page with other stuff
[06:24:33] <Logi> alex777: that's easy, you just put a URL to the servlet in your html for the page
[06:24:50] <Logi> alex777: i.e. an image tag which refers to the servlets
[06:25:03] <alex777> oh, yea, forgot about that :)
[06:25:09] <alex777> I was looking at jsp tags :)
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[06:27:19] <alex777> awesome, thanks Logi
[06:27:26] <Logi> alex777: no problem
[06:29:07] <IMTheNachoMan> slava i understand how to make a custom jcomponent and what not, i just cant think of a proper way to do what i want
[06:29:13] <slava> go to http://www.dack.com/web/bullshit.html, and click 'make bullshit' a few times
[06:29:18] <IMTheNachoMan> like what id put in my custom component
[06:29:22] <slava> the punchlines look a lot like j2ee api features
[06:29:38] <slava> syndicate bleeding-edge infrastructures
[06:29:54] <slava> reinvent user-centric relationships
[06:29:59] <slava> syndicate seamless e-services
[06:30:06] <slava> sounds like Spring or JBoss to me!
[06:30:25] <IMTheNachoMan> i agree, flash is evil
[06:30:46] <slava> my favorite is some article i read where they said that j2ee has buitt-in support for outsourcing
[06:31:10] <slava> what kind of idiot uses this?
[06:31:30] <prolificgnosis> why is flash evil
[06:31:33] <prolificgnosis> i love flash!
[06:31:37] <prolificgnosis> whats wrong with it
[06:31:50] <IMTheNachoMan> if used correctly its fine
[06:31:54] <slava> "strategize impactful supply-chains" hahaha isn't there a javax.management api that claims to do this?
[06:31:54] <Garibaldi> it smells like burnt chicken
[06:31:57] <IMTheNachoMan> but when its overdone, entire sites made with flash
[06:31:59] <IMTheNachoMan> useless
[06:32:05] <prolificgnosis> why useless?
[06:32:11] <IMTheNachoMan> slava uses what?
[06:32:16] <prolificgnosis> what can u do on other websites that u can't do in flash
[06:32:17] <slava> "leverage B2B mindshare" mwaahahahhaa
[06:32:23] <prolificgnosis> it just makes things seamless
[06:32:27] <prolificgnosis> which is great for the user
[06:32:41] <slava> but does flash "integrate revolutionary mindshare"?
[06:32:45] <IMTheNachoMan> prolificgnosis the user loose control of certain things, selecting and copying text, sizing text, viewing on non graphical medium
[06:32:46] <slava> i bet j2ee does
[06:33:08] <IMTheNachoMan> prolificgnosis i mean its cool for certain stuff but
[06:33:12] <prolificgnosis> u can size text
[06:33:17] <prolificgnosis> hmmm i see what your saying
[06:33:23] <slava> this bullshit generator reminds me of how stupid enterprise programming is... they made this site as a joke but i'm sure there's idiots copy and pasting these phrases into press releases
[06:33:33] <IMTheNachoMan> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[06:33:46] <IMTheNachoMan> slava mind helping me out for a few with my question earlier, if your busy thats infe
[06:33:47] <prolificgnosis> i think flash will eventually evolve to cater to a lot of that stuff
[06:33:47] <IMTheNachoMan> fine
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[06:33:55] <IMTheNachoMan> prolificgnosis you think?
[06:34:04] <slava> IMTheNachoMan: i can't explain how to write a swing component in a few sentences
[06:34:06] <high-bass> hey im getting an error which goes... :
[06:34:13] <slava> IMTheNachoMan: you have a collection of output lines, you draw them, etc
[06:34:17] <prolificgnosis> can u integrate jsp with flash stuff?
[06:34:22] <slava> flash is dumb
[06:34:27] <high-bass> Note: X.java uses or overrides a deprecated API.
[06:34:28] <high-bass> Note: Recompile with -Xlint:deprecation for details.
[06:34:33] <IMTheNachoMan> i think HTML 4.0 + JS (AJAX) + XML = a lot better
[06:34:36] <high-bass> anyone know why that is?
[06:34:40] <slava> i only ever see flash used for website ads so i just uninstalled the plugin
[06:34:45] <IMTheNachoMan> high-bass what version of java you using?
[06:34:54] <high-bass> 1.42 i believe
[06:34:56] <Garibaldi> high-bass: I bet if you recompiled with -Xlint:deprecation, it would tell you
[06:34:58] <slava> flash goes with ad popups just like j2ee goes with spam
[06:35:04] <IMTheNachoMan> slava flash is sometimes too flashy
[06:35:04] <high-bass> ok
[06:35:18] <high-bass> so like -Xlint:deprecation X.java
[06:35:35] <IMTheNachoMan> slava i know, but an idea of how, each line be another component? but im trying to figure out why you said extend jcomponent and not just jpanel
[06:35:51] <slava> IMTheNachoMan: no render the lines yourself
[06:36:14] <high-bass> how do i recomplie with -Xlint:deprecation ?
[06:36:17] <IMTheNachoMan> slava and im not sure i understand what you mean by that, thats what im tryin to understand
[06:36:23] <Garibaldi> high-bass: experiment
[06:36:25] <IMTheNachoMan> high-bass  javac -Xling:deprecation blah.java
[06:36:26] <slava> IMTheNachoMan: write a paint() method for your component
[06:36:29] <xitrium> javac -Xlint:deprecation whaetver.java
[06:36:31] <xitrium> yeah
[06:36:34] <slava> IMTheNachoMan: that draws each line... simple...
[06:36:41] <high-bass> o ok
[06:36:53] <IMTheNachoMan> slava im sure what your saying is dead simple, im just not understanding
[06:36:54] <IMTheNachoMan> humm
[06:37:00] <slava> ~tutorial java2d
[06:37:00] <javabot> slava, tutorial java2d is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/java2d
[06:37:02] <Drone> That URL gave the following error code: 404 Not found
[06:37:09] <slava> read the java2d tutorial, IMTheNachoMan
[06:37:11] <xitrium> whoa
[06:37:17] <xitrium> ~tutorial java3d
[06:37:17] <javabot> xitrium, tutorial java3d is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/java3d
[06:37:18] <high-bass> o ok it said error with show();
[06:37:19] <Drone> That URL gave the following error code: 404 Not found
[06:37:19] <xitrium> sweet!
[06:37:28] <high-bass> i think there is an other cmd for that
[06:37:44] <prolificgnosis> i'm going to rewrite the entire api
[06:37:45] <Garibaldi> high-bass: so now look at the API documentation
[06:37:51] <Garibaldi> high-bass: see what it has to say about show()
[06:37:51] <prolificgnosis> and evey structure in it
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[06:38:28] <IMTheNachoMan> slava ah ur saying have each line of text like .drawString(...) etc???
[06:38:34] <high-bass> ya Garibaldi.. i believe show(); is not usable with new api's .. i remmember my prof sayn somthing about that
[06:38:39] <IMTheNachoMan> prolificgnosis api for what?
[06:38:45] <high-bass> instead i think the cmd was .setVisible( true );
[06:38:53] <Garibaldi> high-bass: don't think, read the API
[06:38:59] <Garibaldi> it will say explicitly
[06:39:09] <high-bass> ok what is the link to the api again?
[06:39:13] <high-bass> api's*
[06:39:15] <IMTheNachoMan> ~api
[06:39:15] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, api is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/index.html
[06:39:23] <Garibaldi> high-bass: /topic
[06:39:25] <IMTheNachoMan> thats 1.5
[06:39:32] <IMTheNachoMan> if thats the version your using
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[06:42:38] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Ping...
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[06:43:40] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Te quiero poner en contacto con un cuate de Guadalajara.
[06:43:51] <IMTheNachoMan> with graphics2d, im assuming once a string is drawn using drawstring its not editable
[06:43:54] <high-bass> ok
[06:43:57] <Amnesiac> pr3d4t0r, me agarraste en la cena
[06:43:58] <high-bass> i cant find the class.. java.awt.window
[06:43:59] <Amnesiac> que ondas
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[06:44:09] <IMTheNachoMan> ?
[06:44:10] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Yo no te agarré nada, güey.
[06:44:15] <Amnesiac> hahahahaha
[06:44:17] <Amnesiac> seguro? :P
[06:44:18] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Así se hacen los chismes.
[06:44:21] * IMTheNachoMan bits his lip
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[06:44:59] <high-bass> X.java:26: warning: [deprecation] show() in java.awt.Window has been deprecated
[06:44:59] <Amnesiac> te gusta, te gusta, no te hagas, ahora te niegas eh?
[06:45:04] <Amnesiac> pero anoche que tal? :P hahahahahaha
[06:45:07] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: He, he, he...
[06:45:12] <The_Vulture> high-bass: RTFM.
[06:45:25] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Tengo un cuate de Guadalajara que a lo mejor es bueno que se conozcan.
[06:45:31] <The_Vulture> and it's "APIs" not "api's" *shakes fist*
[06:45:32] <high-bass> O wait nevermind go tit!
[06:45:38] <IMTheNachoMan> "mucho gusto me llamo Bradley Im hornier than ron Jeremy" only spanish i know
[06:45:43] <IMTheNachoMan> acutally dont even know what it says
[06:45:45] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: ¿Tienes MSN?
[06:45:50] <IMTheNachoMan> high-bass tit???
[06:45:56] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: LOL
[06:45:57] <high-bass> haha meant to say got it!
[06:45:59] <high-bass> HAHah!
[06:46:00] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: IMTheNachoMan++
[06:46:01] <javabot> imthenachoman has a karma level of -1, pr3d4t0r
[06:46:12] <xitrium> IMTheNachoMan, i like a lot, they call me bradley, ...
[06:46:20] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r you know that song?
[06:46:21] <Amnesiac> pr3d4t0r, simon
[06:46:39] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Mándamelo en privado.  Por cierto, ¿Cómo te llamas?
[06:47:05] <xitrium> high-bass: did you replace show(); with pack();?
[06:47:22] <high-bass> why would i replace it with pack();
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[06:47:32] <high-bass> it says... the class show makes window visible in the API
[06:47:44] <Garibaldi> huh?
[06:47:48] <Logi> high-bass: and then it says something about deprecation, right?
[06:47:52] <IMTheNachoMan> xitrium is that what it says/
[06:47:53] <IMTheNachoMan> ?
[06:47:53] <Logi> high-bass: and what to use instead
[06:48:06] * IMTheNachoMan is listining to sublime - caress me down
[06:48:07] <high-bass> it doesnt mention deprecation
[06:48:12] <xitrium> IMTheNachoMan, yeah, doesn't really make much sense :p
[06:48:23] <IMTheNachoMan> dont care, songs still awesome
[06:48:24] <The_Vulture> high-bass: which documentation are you reading, exactly?
[06:48:26] <IMTheNachoMan> i wish they were still together
[06:48:27] <xitrium> hehe
[06:48:30] <xitrium> yeah
[06:48:40] <Garibaldi> high-bass: you're looking at the show() method documention in the Window class?
[06:48:44] * Amnesiac looks at The_Vulture and shows his tongue
[06:48:50] <high-bass> yup!
[06:49:04] <Garibaldi> high-bass: I think you're broken
[06:49:09] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Acabo de invitar a mi amigo a ##java; a ver si se puede conectar desde la chamba.
[06:49:11] <IMTheNachoMan> HAHAHAHAHHAA
[06:49:16] <IMTheNachoMan> Garibaldi sorry that was funny
[06:49:18] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Está en el turno de noche en Jabil.
[06:49:21] 
[06:49:26] * The_Vulture grabs the tongue looseners
[06:49:27] <high-bass> uhm this is like my first year using java so
[06:49:30] 
[06:49:32] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r can i ask something with out you banning me?
[06:49:43] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Un cuate de la universidad; fué buen cuate y creo que también fué mi alumno.
[06:49:49] <Amnesiac> IMTheNachoMan, hahahahaha, he's going to do that if you remember him
[06:49:55] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell IMTheNachoMan about ask2ask
[06:49:56] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, I have no idea what ask2ask is.
[06:49:59] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell IMTheNachoMan about ask
[06:50:00] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, The Ask To Ask protocol wastes more bandwidth than any version of the Ask protocol, so just ask your question.
[06:50:00] <Amnesiac> pr3d4t0r, ah orale, desarrolla en Jabil o que hace?
[06:50:06] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r no but in this instance i need permission to ask first
[06:50:08] <xitrium> garibaldi, what is show() replaced with? i've been using pack();
[06:50:16] * Amnesiac smacks The_Vulture
[06:50:21] <Amnesiac> no more cookies for you DAvid
[06:50:29] <Garibaldi> xitrium: setVisible(true);
[06:50:31] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Da soporte técnico.
[06:50:38] <Garibaldi> high-bass: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/awt/Window.html#show()
[06:50:39] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: No sé realmente que hace.
[06:50:52] <The_Vulture> high-bass: Documentation I'm looking at makes it pretty clear.
[06:50:53] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r i mean not trying to be rude/annoying but dont you think tis a bit rude to be speaking a a different language in a channel like this, i realize this is not a set channel with any language but, just curious, not gonna ask you to stop im just wondering
[06:50:57] <xitrium> ah
[06:51:02] <Garibaldi> high-bass: you're telling me that doesn't say anything about deprecation?
[06:51:12] <Amnesiac> pr3d4t0r, orale, conozco gente en HP y en flextronics, en Jabil no
[06:51:13] <high-bass> uh
[06:51:16] <high-bass> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/
[06:51:18] 
[06:51:19] <high-bass> go read that doc...
[06:51:22] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: No, I don't think so.
[06:51:24] <high-bass> and i thought i had 1.4.2 installed
[06:51:28] <high-bass> i told you that from the start
[06:51:35] <high-bass> apprently i dont
[06:51:35] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: OKi.
[06:51:38] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r ok if you say so
[06:51:43] <IMTheNachoMan> anyway
[06:51:50] <The_Vulture> high-bass: "java -version" and/or "javac -J-version"
[06:51:54] <The_Vulture> it should tell you quite clearly
[06:51:57] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Mándame tu MSN -- no puede entrar a IRC.
[06:51:59] <Amnesiac> The_Vulture, speak spanish please :P
[06:52:03] <high-bass> alright thanks vulture
[06:52:04] <xitrium> haha
[06:52:09] <The_Vulture> Amnesiac: In a word: no.
[06:52:13] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: El era my pasajero el día que descojonamos un VW con my Renault Alliance.
[06:52:14] 
[06:52:22] <Amnesiac> o.O
[06:52:23] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: No quedó nada del VW.
[06:52:24] <Amnesiac> wtf
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[06:52:34] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Email?
[06:52:44] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: It didn't go through if it was a /msg
[06:52:45] <Amnesiac> no te llegan los notices?
[06:52:50] <Amnesiac> oh
[06:52:53] <some_dude> will the free-java-sdk run sun's java apps ?
[06:52:55] <Amnesiac> you expected a msg
[06:52:56] <Amnesiac> ok
[06:53:06] <IMTheNachoMan> some_dude why you say free?
[06:53:09] <pr3d4t0r> some_dude: That's what it's for.
[06:53:21] <IMTheNachoMan> some_dude but what pr3d4t0r said
[06:53:22] <Amnesiac> The_Vulture, how was your inter?
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[06:53:36] <IMTheNachoMan> sdk - it will also let you compile java programs too
[06:53:44] <IMTheNachoMan> i mean some_dude ^^^^
[06:53:48] <some_dude> into binaires ?
[06:53:54] <IMTheNachoMan> some_dude no, byte code
[06:53:55] <xitrium> Bite Code
[06:53:57] <xitrium> or that
[06:54:03] <bpalmer> is the free-java-sdk the gnu classpath thing?
[06:54:04] <The_Vulture> Amnesiac: not too bad - should hear back by this time next week
[06:54:14] <IMTheNachoMan> what is this free-java-sdk?
[06:54:19] <The_Vulture> bpalmer: probably a meta-package for it
[06:54:20] <Amnesiac> The_Vulture, that's good, good luck with that
[06:54:22] <bpalmer> It sounds like a debian package
[06:54:23] <IMTheNachoMan> as far as i know, there all free
[06:54:30] <The_Vulture> or for CLASSPATH & gcj, etc..
[06:54:30] <some_dude> is it near 100% compatalbe ?
[06:54:32] <Amnesiac> The_Vulture, which place is the one that you prefer to get into?
[06:54:32] <IMTheNachoMan> ahh maybe
[06:54:41] <The_Vulture> some_dude: with J2SDK1.5 - no
[06:54:43] <bpalmer> in some contexts, IMTheNachoMan , free doesn't mean costless, it has to do with the license of the source code
[06:54:50] <IMTheNachoMan> oh
[06:54:57] <The_Vulture> Amnesiac: Microsoft would be good, though there's pros and cons to that and the IBM offer I've got.
[06:55:00] <prolificgnosis> anyone know the running time of tostring
[06:55:04] <xitrium> "free speech, not free beer"
[06:55:04] <IMTheNachoMan> wait, if i write something with the JDK i cant sell it?
[06:55:07] <Amnesiac> The_Vulture, cool thing
[06:55:10] <IMTheNachoMan> or use it in a corporation?
[06:55:14] <bpalmer> prolificgnosis: it'd depend on what class it's for
[06:55:17] <xitrium> yeah
[06:55:22] <prolificgnosis> linklist
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[06:55:38] <bpalmer> prolificgnosis: you could peek inside src.jar and check
[06:55:47] <bpalmer> (assuming you only care about sun's implementation, for example)
[06:55:53] <prolificgnosis> yes i do
[06:55:55] <IMTheNachoMan> probably something like Theta(N)
[06:56:04] <prolificgnosis> i need worst case
[06:56:29] <IMTheNachoMan> well lets see, traverse a list from start to end, N, convert each node to string, N
[06:56:34] <bpalmer> O(n^10), I'm pretty sure
[06:56:36] <IMTheNachoMan> or maybe im wrong, i was never to good with all that runtime crap
[06:56:42] <IMTheNachoMan> bpalmer ??????????
[06:56:56] <bpalmer> ok, it's probably not the -tightest- bound...
[06:57:12] <IMTheNachoMan> wait im not factoring in how long it takes to convert a node to string
[06:57:19] <IMTheNachoMan> but i suppose that would depend on the node
[06:57:23] <IMTheNachoMan> bpalmer haha
[06:57:38] <bpalmer> IMTheNachoMan: you put your finger on the hard part
[06:58:11] <bpalmer> AbstractCollection.toString() describes the procedure it goes through, which gives you a lower asymptotic bound
[06:58:42] <IMTheNachoMan> i mean
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[06:58:58] <IMTheNachoMan> i could come up with a program where toString took O(n^n)
[06:59:03] <IMTheNachoMan> that could be bad
[06:59:03] <bpalmer> *nod*
[06:59:09] <bpalmer> or infloop
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[06:59:39] <IMTheNachoMan> prolificgnosis ok worst case O(n^(n-1))
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[06:59:47] <IMTheNachoMan> if its any worse then that, no use in trying
[06:59:52] <bpalmer> but you're right, even my joke was wrong
[07:00:02] * bpalmer slaps myself ashamedly, then goes away
[07:00:05] <IMTheNachoMan> haha
[07:00:10] <bpalmer> why do you care, prolificgnosis ?
[07:00:22] <IMTheNachoMan> gah, i really gota figure this jcomponent thing out so i can get this program done
[07:00:30] <prolificgnosis> studying
[07:00:51] <bpalmer> Well, it's \Omega(n), at the least
[07:01:06] <bpalmer> for n the number of elements in the list
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[07:01:14] <prolificgnosis> how omega(n)
[07:01:41] <IMTheNachoMan> omega?
[07:02:05] <prolificgnosis> palmer, how did u get omega(n)
[07:02:19] <pr3d4t0r> prolificgnosis: Dude?
[07:02:24] <pr3d4t0r> prolificgnosis: It's "you", not "u".
[07:02:32] <bpalmer> (it's also bpalmer, not palmer)
[07:02:33] <prolificgnosis> sorry habit
[07:02:37] <pr3d4t0r> ~topicsmite prolificgnosis
[07:02:37] <javabot> And the wrath of /TOPIC descended with terrible fury upon prolificgnosis.  And all the people marvelled, saying, Behold, we too should read the /TOPIC, lest we be stricken.  And all the people read the /TOPIC, and went away edified.
[07:02:57] <bpalmer> "Returns a string representation of this collection. The string representation consists of a list of the collection's elements in the order they are returned by its iterator, enclosed in square brackets ("[]"). Adjacent elements are separated by the characters ", " (comma and space). Elements are converted to strings as by String.valueOf(Object)."
[07:03:07] <bpalmer> that says it's Omega(n)
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[07:03:49] <bpalmer> ok, I'm wrong, technically
[07:03:55] <prolificgnosis> yeah but thats assuming you go through the list and then convert to a string
[07:04:00] <bpalmer> the most obvious implementation of that is Omega(n)
[07:04:02] <Bevin> ùhi
[07:04:11] <prolificgnosis> so you're sure its omega(n)?
[07:04:16] <bpalmer> it could be Omega(1)
[07:04:16] <IMTheNachoMan> prolificgnosis well that depends on the way the linkedlist impliments .toString
[07:04:26] <IMTheNachoMan> it could be anything, so why argue
[07:04:38] <prolificgnosis> scroll up nacho
[07:04:49] <IMTheNachoMan> with java2d, drawString, is the text that is drawn editable?
[07:05:08] <bpalmer> So, as is usual, unless the API specifies directly, performance has to be guessed at or concretely analyzed
[07:05:30] <bpalmer> which, again, I should have known. *slaps self again, ponders making dinner*
[07:06:20] <IMTheNachoMan> what is #async for?
[07:06:26] <IMTheNachoMan> why did i get a message in this channel about it?
[07:07:02] <IMTheNachoMan> i wonder if nacho is a nice guy (not me but the person on IRC whos name is 'nacho')  im gonna ask him if i can buy his name
[07:07:09] *** IMTheNachoMan is now known as IGotTheGoodOne
[07:08:12] <IGotTheGoodOne> there better
[07:09:05] <IGotTheGoodOne> anyone know of any good java libraries for chat programs?
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[07:12:48] <IGotTheGoodOne> anyone seen konfabulator?
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[07:15:02] <Cow_woC> hi
[07:15:16] <Cow_woC> Is there a way to calculate the avg of many large numbers (you can't just add them up and divide at the end)?
[07:15:36] <bpalmer> do you know how many there will be ?
[07:15:39] <prolificgnosis> why not?
[07:15:47] <prolificgnosis> u can use the sum
[07:15:49] <prolificgnosis> ummmm
[07:15:56] <prolificgnosis> crap
[07:16:05] <Cow_woC> bpalmer: not ahead of time
[07:16:14] <prolificgnosis> its the one with that teacher that made the kid write x number of time on the board
[07:16:20] <Cow_woC> prolificgnosis: the sum is too big to store in a variable
[07:16:21] <prolificgnosis> oh wait..
[07:16:21] <prolificgnosis> nm
[07:16:25] <bpalmer> Cow_woC: BigInteger
[07:16:31] <prolificgnosis> ok
[07:16:34] <Cow_woC> bpalmer: surely even BigInteger has limits?
[07:16:56] <IGotTheGoodOne> Cow_woC do you know how many numbers there are total?
[07:17:03] <IGotTheGoodOne> Cow_woC before you start?
[07:17:12] <rogue-kun{B}|Awa> Cow_woC: you could do averages, in smaller batces, then do an average of the averages...
[07:17:12] *** rogue-kun{B}|Awa is now known as rogue-kun{B}
[07:17:36] <bpalmer> Cow_woC: its limit is the size of RAM, basically. "Immutable arbitrary-precision integers. "
[07:17:36] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r
[07:17:41] <Cow_woC> IGotTheGoodOne: yes, I could find out the total number of values before beginning to calculate the sum
[07:17:46] <Cow_woC> (now that I think about it)
[07:17:48] *** prolificgnosis was kicked by pr3d4t0r (It's "you", not "u")
[07:17:49] <Cow_woC> but how would that help?
[07:17:55] <IGotTheGoodOne> (A+B+C+D+E)/5 = A/5 + B/5 + C/5 + D/5 + E/5
[07:17:58] <bpalmer> actually, probably it's 2^{Integer.MAX_VALUE}
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[07:18:22] <vinse> fist iteration a0 + a1 / 2, 2nd you do that result  [2(prevResult) + a3] / 2, etc
[07:18:33] <Cow_woC> bpalmer: why that value?
[07:18:41] <Cow_woC> IGotTheGoodOne: hmm, that might work for me :)
[07:18:46] <Cow_woC> I'll give it a go
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[07:19:14] <bpalmer> Cow_woC: somewhere along the lines it's probably using an int to index into an array or collection
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[07:19:21] <IGotTheGoodOne> Cow_woC well mathamatically it has to, dont konw bout for your program
[07:19:31] <IGotTheGoodOne> Cow_woC good luck
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[07:19:35] <IGotTheGoodOne> what everyone thinks of my new name?
[07:19:42] * IGotTheGoodOne = IMTheNachoMan
[07:19:46] <Eclipser> teh lmae
[07:19:50] <Eclipser> erm
[07:19:53] <Eclipser> that was unintentional
[07:19:57] <prolificgnosis> halp
[07:20:02] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell prolificgnosis about aolbonics
[07:20:02] <javabot> prolificgnosis, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
[07:20:04] <IGotTheGoodOne> except a better version, some minor bug fixes, and a brand spanking new spiler
[07:20:09] <bpalmer> Cow_woC: but my brain is confuzzled tonight, so don't trust me. But if you're running into BigInteger's limits, you're doing some extreme programming
[07:20:17] <pr3d4t0r> IGotTheGoodOne: See?  The knife cuts the same way for everyone.
[07:20:19] <prolificgnosis> how is halp aolbonics?
[07:20:26] <Cow_woC> bpalmer: thank you
[07:20:33] <pr3d4t0r> prolificgnosis: Stop talking like a retard and spell out the words.
[07:20:38] <pr3d4t0r> prolificgnosis: You're hurting our eyeballs.
[07:20:44] <IGotTheGoodOne> pr3d4t0r i have decided its not worth the argue, so im just gonna keep my mouth shut, i may not agree with your 'rules' but i shall follow them
[07:20:48] <prolificgnosis> what word?
[07:21:02] <IGotTheGoodOne> actually i dont know
[07:21:09] <IGotTheGoodOne> im wondering what you said so i dont say it in the future
[07:21:19] <IGotTheGoodOne> maybe 'halp' ?
[07:21:20] <prolificgnosis> i'm wondering too
[07:21:22] <pr3d4t0r> prolificgnosis: You instead of u; you're or your instead of ur.
[07:21:37] <prolificgnosis> i'm comp sci, not an english major
[07:21:54] <Garibaldi> prolificgnosis: comp sci doesn't mean you speak like a retard
[07:22:03] <prolificgnosis> but it does mean i spell like one
[07:22:06] <xitrium> yeah, even engineers can spell "you" :P
[07:22:19] <IGotTheGoodOne> prolificgnosis shhh dont argue, not worth it, trust me
[07:22:20] <bpalmer> strictly speaking, programming should mean you pay better attention to details like spelling than an English major would
[07:22:32] <Garibaldi> spelling and grammar
[07:22:35] <IGotTheGoodOne> but wait im curious, i cant see where he said 'u'
[07:22:41] <xitrium> up there
[07:22:52] <xitrium> "u can use the summ" or something
[07:23:03] <slake> Hmm.
[07:23:25] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: Watch the channel.
[07:23:26] * javabot watches the channel for trolls and will call an op if you guys misbehave.
[07:23:27] <IGotTheGoodOne> yeah and he was kicked after that
[07:23:43] <IGotTheGoodOne> then he came back and pr3d4t0r told him again right after he said 'halp'
[07:23:47] <IGotTheGoodOne> no i give, not worth it
[07:23:47] <IGotTheGoodOne> anyway
[07:23:52] <IGotTheGoodOne> back to my problem
[07:24:02] <prolificgnosis> what does halp mean?
[07:24:12] <IGotTheGoodOne> mistyped help i guess i dont know, you said it
[07:24:31] <prolificgnosis> a and e are far away
[07:24:39] <xitrium> there's something to be said for using two hands to type
[07:24:41] <MacIver> dvorak ;)
[07:24:50] <IGotTheGoodOne> no they arent, not even an inch
[07:24:51] <prolificgnosis> i can't the other one is busy
[07:25:09] <prolificgnosis> maybe I shouldn't use contractions either
[07:25:21] <vinse> Cow_woC: i think i have an algorithm that will work w/o knowing how many numbers you have ... implement it for me!
[07:25:34] <Logi> "it may be that I should not use contractions"
[07:25:36] <IGotTheGoodOne> vinse yeah i have it to somewhere, just cant find it
[07:25:43] <pr3d4t0r> prolificgnosis: If you don't like it, you're welcome to ask in Efnet #java.
[07:25:52] <xitrium> haha
[07:25:57] <xitrium> does efnet have a #java?
[07:25:58] <IGotTheGoodOne> pr3d4t0r no im curuios though, what did he say the second time, so i dont do it, cause i cant find it
[07:26:02] <IGotTheGoodOne> learn from others mistakes, thats my motto
[07:26:10] <IGotTheGoodOne> xitrium yeah, but not a good one
[07:26:16] <prolificgnosis> well I would like to code a "u" structure
[07:26:33] <IGotTheGoodOne> xitrium well last time i was there they got sidetracked with warez, heh
[07:26:38] <xitrium> haha
[07:26:39] <prolificgnosis> this u structure would use spatial data in a 4-ary tree
[07:26:59] <IGotTheGoodOne> are you tryin to be a smartass, cause it doesnt work in this channel
[07:27:07] <IGotTheGoodOne> just curious?
[07:27:27] <prolificgnosis> bi-curious?
[07:27:45] <IGotTheGoodOne> anyone here live in the USA? and play the McDonalds monopoly game
[07:27:49] <IGotTheGoodOne> wait nm, offtopic
[07:27:51] <IGotTheGoodOne> nevermind
[07:28:00] <IGotTheGoodOne> ok i hate to ask this again
[07:28:05] <IGotTheGoodOne> but is slava still here?
[07:28:13] <xitrium> just look?
[07:28:15] <IGotTheGoodOne> i need more help on this jcomponent thing, cant figure out what he meant
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[07:28:42] *** pr3d4t0r sets mode: +b %prolificgnosis!*@*
[07:28:51] <IGotTheGoodOne> humm what i do?
[07:28:51] <IGotTheGoodOne> oh
[07:28:53] <xitrium> he's not listed as being here
[07:29:01] <IGotTheGoodOne> sorry thought it was for me
[07:29:07] <IGotTheGoodOne> ~slava
[07:29:07] <javabot> IGotTheGoodOne, I have no idea what slava is.
[07:29:11] <IGotTheGoodOne> isnt there a command for seen?
[07:29:13] <some_dude> can i run a windows .exe java file on linux ?
[07:29:16] <xitrium> !seen slava
[07:29:18] <Drone> slava (slava!n=slava at CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14 dot cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) was last seen in ##java on Wed 26 Oct 2005 04:36 GMT, saying 'read the java2d tutorial, IMTheNachoMan'.
[07:29:24] <some_dude> I've been able to find the .jar file
[07:29:25] <IGotTheGoodOne> some_dude i dont think you understand how java works
[07:29:26] <MrEntropy> IGotTheGoodOne: /whowas
[07:29:35] <IGotTheGoodOne> MrEntropy i mean for channel
[07:29:42] <MrEntropy> oh
[07:29:55] <IGotTheGoodOne> MrEntropy the one xitrium said
[07:29:56] <some_dude> I assume that the exe extracts the .jar and lauches java
[07:29:56] <IGotTheGoodOne> thx
[07:30:04] <IGotTheGoodOne> ok maybe someone else can help
[07:30:08] <xitrium> IGotTheGoodOne, what's your question?
[07:30:28] <rogue-kun{B}> some_dude: demedis most java can be run, but some java eps JMI can't
[07:31:01] <IGotTheGoodOne> i was going to use a jtable for my client chat program, so that the column with the names is distinct (the text doesnt flow into it) and when lines of text wrap they indent after the name column (like a jtable would do)
[07:31:01] <rogue-kun{B}> if it in .exe form, then not with out somthing like wine
[07:31:02] <Cow_woC> Given a long representing offset in milliseconds, is it possible to get a Date from time = 0 (not from the epoch)?
[07:31:04] <IGotTheGoodOne> but slava said bad idea
[07:31:27] <Cow_woC> I want a Date which displays the long of milliseconds in terms of hours/mins/seconds
[07:31:45] <IGotTheGoodOne> he said custom jcomponent, i just for the life of me cant figure out how or what he meant
[07:32:23] <rogue-kun{B}> Cow_woC: I assume you look at the Date class?
[07:32:31] <xitrium> hmm
[07:33:08] <some_dude> when i run the exe it creates a .jar file
[07:33:12] <Cow_woC> rogue-kun{B}: yes but the date is relative to the epoc. The problem is that Date represents an absolute time, as opposed to a relative time
[07:33:27] <some_dude> I'm going to try that jar file
[07:33:35] <rogue-kun{B}> some_dude: unbless you have a windows/dos emulatoer you can not run .exe files on *unix
[07:33:49] <bpalmer> unbless me? Well, unbless you!
[07:33:54] <xitrium> IGotTheGoodOne, to tell you the truth i'm not really sure what he was getting at, sorry
[07:34:00] <IGotTheGoodOne> xitrium thats fine
[07:34:01] <Cow_woC> heh
[07:34:07] <IGotTheGoodOne> pr3d4t0r you have any idea?
[07:34:13] <some_dude> now here is one, if i run this exe under wine, would i need the java for windows installed on wine ?
[07:34:20] <IGotTheGoodOne> prolificgnosis told you, shoulda just listened
[07:34:25] <IGotTheGoodOne> pr3d4t0r you must be having fun today
[07:34:32] <rogue-kun{B}> some_dude: no
[07:34:43] <IGotTheGoodOne> rogue-kun{B} no? you sure?
[07:35:15] <IGotTheGoodOne> rogue-kun{B} maybe your right, i bet if you export it as a path within wine it aughta work, wow, never thought of that
[07:35:28] <rogue-kun{B}> IGotTheGoodOne: WINE can make *inx calls to the underline OS, , so you ojnly need one vertion of java VM installed
[07:35:46] <IGotTheGoodOne> rogue-kun{B} interesting, cool, thx
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[07:37:09] <IGotTheGoodOne> pr3d4t0r just out of curiosity, u gonna keep him silenced, or eventually unsilence him?
[07:37:40] * bpalmer blinks. "Taunting happy fun pr3d4t0r?"
[07:38:06] <IGotTheGoodOne> happy?
[07:38:13] <IGotTheGoodOne> or you mean having?
[07:38:38] *** pr3d4t0r sets mode: +b IGotTheGoodOne!*@*
[07:38:42] *** IGotTheGoodOne was kicked by pr3d4t0r (pr3d4t0r)
[07:38:53] <pr3d4t0r> Asshat.
[07:39:00] *** pr3d4t0r sets mode: -b %prolificgnosis!*@*
[07:39:01] <cored> are you guys never sleep
[07:39:05] <cored> :-S
[07:39:12] <rogue-kun{B}> cored: Insomina
[07:39:22] <cored> rogue-kun{B}: ok
[07:39:29] <pr3d4t0r> prolificgnosis: Welcome back.
[07:39:31] <cored> i know that pr3d4t0r is a robot or something like that
[07:39:38] <rogue-kun{B}> LOL my roomie just should me a computer who case is made out of lego
[07:39:43] <cored> but the other one
[07:39:51] <cored> rogue-kun{B}: :-P
[07:40:03] <bpalmer> rogue-kun{B}: you seen the computers whose chips float inside a drum of diesel fuel?
[07:40:03] <rogue-kun{B}> pr3d4t0r is not a bot, javabot is the bot 8)
[07:40:33] <rogue-kun{B}> bpalmer: nope
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[07:42:08] <IGotTheGoodOne> anyone here use mirc?
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[07:43:39] <Baloogan> Ok. Could someone walk me though "Dynamic Generation of Stub Classes" @ http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/rmi/relnotes.html
[07:43:40] <rogue-kun{B}> IGotTheGoodOne: a good number of us yess
[07:43:41] <Baloogan> ?
[07:43:52] <Baloogan> How do I make it work?
[07:44:18] <IGotTheGoodOne> anyone know how to set up aliases so when i type blah blah 'a' it will replace it with 'abc'
[07:44:20] <IGotTheGoodOne> the 'a'
[07:44:21] <ernimril> rogue-kun{B}: I do not think that there is a _large_ number of mirc users hers... (I certainly do not use it)
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[07:44:40] <IGotTheGoodOne> i see how to set up aliases but thats for / commands
[07:44:41] <pr3d4t0r> |^JaMeS^|!
[07:44:48] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r
[07:44:55] <|^JaMeS^|> pr3d4t0r, y0
[07:45:02] <Baloogan> Anyone?
[07:45:12] <IGotTheGoodOne> pr3d4t0r you were talkin bout that earlier, do you know how?
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[07:45:17] <Honk^away> IGotTheGoodOne: there's channels like #mirc for sure ;)
[07:45:27] * |^JaMeS^| goes to pr3d4t0r's bar to get some tangelo juice
[07:46:08] <wig> is there an alphabetical list of all java methods?
[07:46:13] <Baloogan> Please?
[07:46:21] <wig> not by classes, but by alpah
[07:46:45] <pr3d4t0r> |^JaMeS^|: :)
[07:46:45] <Honk^away> wig: what do you need that for? :]
[07:46:49] <pr3d4t0r> 'nite gang.
[07:46:54] <|^JaMeS^|> nite pr3d4t0r
[07:46:57] <wig> Honk^away, someone wanted to know if it existed
[07:46:59] <wig> i told him i didn't think so
[07:47:02] <wig> but wanted to make sure
[07:47:16] <Honk^away> well.. one can easily create one :p
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[07:47:30] <wig> probably.
[07:47:36] <Honk^away> not "probably" :P
[07:47:49] <wig> definitely :-p
[07:47:55] <Honk^away> having such a list is pretty pointless anyway
[07:48:07] <wig> i konw
[07:48:09] <wig> know*
[07:48:12] <Honk^away> unless one can remember 30k methods :]
[07:48:21] <wig> he wanted it for some weird program
[07:48:32] <rogue-kun{B}> ernimril: I did not say a majority, or even most *)
[07:48:38] <Honk^away> that's even more reason to create it yourself :)
[07:48:57] <wig> it's not my program, so i don't care :-p
[07:49:06] * Cow_woC is blown away by the fact that joda-time is a 500k JAR
[07:49:07] <Baloogan> Could someone walk me though "Dynamic Generation of Stub Classes" @ http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/rmi/relnotes.html
[07:49:08] <Cow_woC> file
[07:49:18] <Baloogan> Like how to get them working?
[07:49:24] <Baloogan> I don't even know where to start.
[07:49:39] <Baloogan> Please?
[07:50:22] * Cow_woC is off to bed, good night all
[07:52:44] <some_dude> I'm still on my windows box, I ran the exe file, and it created a .jar file when i ran the .jar file i got "Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: "SpringChartsClient/jar
[07:52:57] <IGotTheGoodOne> pr3d4t0r yoyou still here, gota make syoure one thing real qyouick
[07:53:35] <Baloogan> Please... I just don't know enough about java to understand Dynamic Generation of Stub Classes...
[07:53:47] <Baloogan> I know enough to use DGSC. ;)
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[07:56:54] <some_dude> my VNC server can not find the fixed font
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[07:57:09] <some_dude> in /usr/X11R6/lib/fonts/*
[07:57:17] <cybereal> This is #java
[07:57:28] <some_dude> hehe
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[08:00:30] <IGotTheGoodOne> can we have color text in this channel?
[08:00:43] <MacIver> no
[08:00:50] <Garibaldi> hell no
[08:00:53] <IGotTheGoodOne> k
[08:01:11] <IGotTheGoodOne> man cant find one good mirc script for this
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[08:01:19] <Garibaldi> this isn't #teen-sex
[08:01:30] <cybereal> it's a chat channel, wtf do you need an elaborate script for?
[08:03:53] <IGotTheGoodOne> to convert 'u' to 'you'
[08:04:02] <some_dude> "Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: " is this very bad ?
[08:04:22] <Garibaldi> one way to convert 'u' to "you" is to type the 'y' and 'o'
[08:05:05] <Honk^away> IGotTheGoodOne: try pressing "F1"
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[08:05:38] <IMTheNachoMan> sorry stupid internet
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[08:06:02] <some_dude> so when you create a windows exe from a jar file, what happenes ?
[08:06:46] <Honk^away> half of the ppl can no longer run it :]
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[08:08:34] <some_dude> well, when i run it, the program extracts a .jar file, and loads java on it
[08:08:43] <some_dude> are there some command line options i need ?
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[08:13:32] <IMTheNachoMan> hello
[08:13:36] <IMTheNachoMan> wanna see something cool?
[08:13:53] <dibblego> Antarctica?
[08:13:55] 
[08:14:46] <cybereal> IMTheNachoMan: What are you, 10 years old?
[08:15:24] <IMTheNachoMan> no
[08:15:59] <cybereal> IMTheNachoMan: I asked pr3d4t0r why you were banned, and he told me that you were doing what you are doing right now so you might act your age I guess unless you wanna get banned again ;)
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[08:22:04] <terence_> hi
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[08:22:30] <MrEntropy> if a select query is to return 0 rows, an SQLException is thrown, is that correct?
[08:22:35] <terence_> for intersection of two hash sets i would iterate over the smaller(size() ) one and serach in the bigger, or is there a faster approach?
[08:22:37] <dibblego> no
[08:22:44] <dibblego> terence_: yes
[08:22:50] <dibblego> ~javadoc HashSet
[08:22:50] <javabot> dibblego, please see java.util.HashSet: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/HashSet.html
[08:22:53] <terence_> which?
[08:23:15] <dibblego> set1.addAll(set2);
[08:23:31] <dibblego> oh wait, intersection
[08:23:37] <MrEntropy> dibblego: was that no for me?
[08:23:41] <dibblego> MrEntropy: yes
[08:23:56] <MrEntropy> dibblego: ok, so when i get a result set, how do i make sure it's not empty?
[08:24:06] <terence_> dibblego:  INTERSECTION!
[08:24:15] <MrEntropy> dibblego: i don't see a count() or anything like that
[08:24:20] <dibblego> MrEntropy: final boolean isEmpty = !rs.next();
[08:24:27] <dibblego> MrEntropy: that's because you don't want a count()
[08:24:36] <terence_> dibblego:  how shall i find ou which macthed which not?
[08:24:43] <terence_> with addall()
[08:24:51] <dibblego> terence_: I take it back
[08:24:54] <dibblego> <dibblego> oh wait, intersection
[08:25:11] <terence_> >for intersection of two hash sets i would iterate over the smaller(size() ) one and serach in the bigger, or is there a faster approach?
[08:25:21] <terence_> ^-------------
[08:26:33] <terence_> oriterate over the bigger and serach in the smaller?
[08:26:51] <terence_> either more iterations or more searching
[08:27:07] <terence_> factor would be around 100:1000
[08:27:20] <cybereal> more iterating is more efficient than more searching
[08:27:24] <terence_> items diff .. - intersected 100
[08:27:47] <terence_> cybereal:  i am not sure in hash set .. because it has very efficient serach ahead
[08:28:07] <cybereal> terence_: if you're referencing it by key then it's fast
[08:28:18] <dibblego> Set lookup is O(1)
[08:28:21] <terence_> ?  its a hah Set!
[08:28:25] <dibblego> er, HashSet
[08:28:30] <dibblego> you iterate the smaller one
[08:28:34] <terence_> ok.
[08:28:36] <terence_> tx
[08:29:02] <dibblego> np
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[08:34:36] <pr3d4t0r> Hrm...
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[08:38:10] <slake> Is there a textbox swing component?
[08:38:19] <slake> I want to make an immutable text box...
[08:38:21] <dibblego> ~javadoc TextField
[08:38:22] <javabot> dibblego, please see java.awt.TextField: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/awt/TextField.html
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[08:43:29] <rogue-kun{B}> slake: one line or multi line?
[08:45:29] <pr3d4t0r> Damn.
[08:45:38] <pr3d4t0r> Talk about life imitating art imitating life.
[08:45:40] <pr3d4t0r> http://edition.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Movies/10/25/film.germany.reut/index.html
[08:46:52] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: they have a widget to get 'news alerts' about Adolf Hitler hah, I wonder how often there are news alerts for that
[08:48:27] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: More often than you think.
[08:48:42] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: Google for "Prussian Blue" and "singers"
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[09:13:38] <Kane_Hart> when i run this on my server through putty "java -Xms512m -Xmx768m -cp bsf.jar:bsh-2.0.jar:jython.jar:c3p0-0.9.0.jar:mysql-connector-java-3.1.10-bin.jar:l2jserver.jar net.sf.l2j.Server > /home/kanechart/l2j/server.txt"  when I close putty the server goes down.
[09:15:38] <cybereal> Kane_Hart: that's not a java specific question, that's a linux/bash/shell question
[09:15:55] <cybereal> Kane_Hart: I'll give you a hint though: nohup
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[09:26:01] <b0fh_ua> hello! I still wandering, is it possible to get resource from remote JNDI server. I have application server installed on hostA and there is a connection object bound to some name. I would like to get this object using JNDI connecting to hostA from hostB. Is it possible at all?
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[09:28:38] <roots-> nohup and or disown
[09:29:05] <roots-> disown is actually more accourately detaching a process from the shell than nohup
[09:29:49] <TPC> I have an array of objects based on a class I wrote myself, and I need to sort that array based on the output of the getName() method in the class. What is the easiest way to do that?
[09:30:15] <cybereal> TPC: implement Comparable on that class and use Arrays. class
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[09:30:26] <TPC> ok
[09:30:27] <roots-> or a comparator
[09:30:48] <roots-> Arrays.sort has one that uses the natural ordering (as defined by comparable of the objects itself) and external order defined by a comparator
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[09:31:23] <cybereal> Yeah but I think if you design the class, and you know it needs to be sorted, you may as well implement Comparable
[09:31:41] <roots-> i am reluctant to do that often though
[09:32:05] <roots-> for a number of reasons, eg there might be other attributes, you need a Collator based sorting most likely and so on
[09:32:27] <cybereal> but in this case we know it's simple
[09:32:29] <roots-> secondary and teriary criteria and so on
[09:32:30] <roots-> :)
[09:32:50] <cybereal> %08?
[09:33:30] <cybereal> roots-:  why did your smiley get url encoded?
[09:33:50] <roots-> cybereal: i accidentally hit the wrong keys
[09:34:05] <roots-> woo big boss wants to talk to me
[09:34:09] <cybereal> lucky you
[09:34:14] <roots-> from the customer
[09:34:17] <roots-> i am not so sure its positive :>
[09:34:47] <roots-> i might end up in the betty ford clinic, irc section
[09:36:27] <cybereal> hm
[09:37:58] <roots-> i have an office for myself lately
[09:38:10] <roots-> kind of nice
[09:39:27] <cybereal> yeah I have my own office for the time being... I'm going to end up sharing soon though because we've run out of space *sniff*
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[09:41:45] <roots-> here its the opposite
[09:41:51] <roots-> over half of the people got laid off
[09:42:18] <cybereal> Bummer
[09:42:29] <roots-> where are you cybereal ? in the usa ?
[09:42:36] <cybereal> yeah
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[09:43:44] <roots-> a lot of guys over there sit in cubes
[09:44:13] <roots-> you have some privacy yes, but it sucks compared to real walls and so on
[09:44:20] <cybereal> Yeah, cubes are depressing
[09:44:22] <roots-> talking micro-climate in the office
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[09:53:54] <Drone> View TPC's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8577
[09:54:16] <TPC> would that work?
[09:55:00] <TPC> I want the array entrys that are not used (the array is bigger than the number of objects because I don't know how many objects I need) to end up at the end of the array when sorting
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[09:56:01] <kiliko> ow do i get last_insterd_id  from mysql?
[09:58:08] <roots->  TPC no it wouldnt
[09:58:18] <roots-> the sort you have in java's core lib are stable
[09:58:28] <roots-> equal objects maintain their relative order
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[10:01:54] <TPC> roots-, I don't really understand what you mean
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[11:01:52] <heanol> i have a method in a class that takes an object and returns a List with instances of the same object, is that a case for generics?
[11:04:47] <cybereal> might be a good idea I suppose
[11:05:20] <heanol> all the howtos and tutorials seem to focus on how to use classes that uses generics
[11:05:25] <heanol> not how to implement it in a new one
[11:06:15] <cybereal> I noticed
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[11:16:05] <shaym> hello
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[11:53:33] <heanol> bah.. i'm having trouble understanding generics.. must the whole class work with the same set?
[11:53:36] <heanol> same class*
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[11:54:49] <dibblego> erm, yes
[11:54:54] <dibblego> ~tell heanol about generics
[11:54:54] <javabot> heanol, generics is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/language/generics.html
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[11:55:26] <ulver> wella all!
[11:55:35] <heanol> yeah i
[11:55:43] <heanol> yeah i've read through the pdf and i'm still not getting it
[11:55:58] <ricky_clarkson2> pr3d4t0r, ping
[11:56:24] <heanol> hrm.
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[11:56:34] <rvalles> hi
[11:56:43] <rvalles> what does it mean for a method, to be static?
[11:56:50] <heanol> public interface Bar<T> { public List<T> foo(T baz); }
[11:57:00] <heanol> that works.. hmm
[11:57:11] <dibblego> of course, why wouldn't it?
[11:57:20] <dibblego> (assuming "works" means "compiles")
[11:57:22] <heanol> yeah. but do i really need to specify the Type for each instance?
[11:57:42] <heanol> cant i just add a method like the foo() one without specifying the type in the interface declaration?
[11:58:08] <dibblego> yes, then you declare T in the method
[11:58:09] <heanol> or am i missunderstanding generics?
[11:58:19] <dibblego> public interface Bar { public <T> List<T> foo(T baz); }
[11:58:22] <doc|work> if you're running an SQL query where the parameters don't change, which is faster, Statement or PreparedStatement?
[11:58:26] <dibblego> T is inferred by the argument
[11:58:45] <heanol> ah, coolness dibblego
[11:58:49] <heanol> that's exactly what i wanted
[11:58:50] <heanol> thanks
[11:58:57] <dibblego> doc|home: depends on the underlying driver, and further context
[11:59:11] <dibblego> heanol: generics methods is at the end if I remember erectly
[11:59:22] <ricky_clarkson2> doc|work, The reason for PreparedStatement isn't speed, it's reliability, afaik.
[11:59:26] <doc|work> dibblego: postgresql and it's a simple "SELECT fields FROM table ORDER BY field"
[11:59:51] <dibblego> doc|home: Statement is certainly more appropriate; there is nothing to prepare
[11:59:56] <ricky_clarkson2> doc|work, so there are no parameters..
[12:00:10] <doc|work> ricky_clarkson2: any links to why it's more reliable?
[12:00:14] <doc|work> ok, thanks
[12:00:20] <dibblego> "faster" is a silly reason to choose one over another
[12:00:34] <dibblego> it's faster to not write any code at all
[12:00:45] <ricky_clarkson2> doc|work, e.g., insert 'It's a beautiful day'
[12:00:46] <dibblego> why don't you choose that option?
[12:01:12] <dibblego> to protect against SQL Injection (which it doesn't do), I think is what ricky_clarkson is saying
[12:01:33] <ricky_clarkson2> I meant reliability more than safety really.
[12:01:34] <doc|work> not write any code? can I do that and still get paid? :)
[12:01:35] <dibblego> it protects against some basic injection attacks
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[12:01:54] <doc|work> dibblego: yeah, I understand the SQL injection advantages but was wondering was that it
[12:02:02] <dibblego> doc|work: the answer is "then I won't meet my requirements", which can be said when you use an inappropriate data type
[12:02:13] <doc|work> hehe
[12:02:25] <dibblego> the argument to use X over Y because it's "faster", is the same argument to do nothing instead of X or Y
[12:02:34] <dibblego> since nothing is "faster"
[12:02:39] <dibblego> meet requirements first!
[12:02:44] <doc|work> nothing won't get what I want done
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[12:02:55] <dibblego> neither will X if your requirement is for Y
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[12:03:23] <dibblego> if PreparedStatement and Statement existed purely for performance, they would be called Statement and SlowedDownStatement
[12:03:25] <ricky_clarkson2> Javalobby seems to think people actually *want* JavaZone videos.
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[12:03:40] <dibblego> </rant> <!-- :) -->
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[12:04:16] <ricky_clarkson2> Before you trolls get excited, I'm still here!
[12:04:45] <doc|work> dibblego: I knew that preparedstatement wasn't advantageous because there was no actual parameters which change so I thought the only thing it came down to, in deciding one over the other, was speed, which is why I asked...
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[12:05:36] <ricky_clarkson> Me too.
[12:05:42] <dibblego> doc|home: Statement is more appropriate to your requirement; whichever is faster is of less concern. In any case, neither is faster; they are interfaces
[12:05:43] <ricky_clarkson2> Cool, I can stop using XChat.
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[12:06:03] <doc|work> dibblego: ok, so why is Statement more appropriate?
[12:06:10] <dibblego> doc|home: because you have nothing to prepare
[12:06:27] <dibblego> you don't even meet the requirements of the data type, let alone its specification
[12:06:34] <dibblego> s/data type/name of the data type
[12:06:42] <dibblego> <b>Prepared</b>Statement
[12:06:55] <doc|work> ok
[12:07:08] <dibblego> </rant-for-real> <!-- :) -->
[12:07:16] <dibblego> you thought rant was the top-level node, didn't you?
[12:08:09] <doc|work> I'm beginning to think it's part of some broken code which has created an infinite loop :)
[12:08:39] <dibblego> oh mate, I saw the worst code today, EVER!
[12:09:11] <dibblego> worse than catch(IOException e){if(e.toString().startsWith("java.io.FileNotFoundException"){blah();}} even
[12:09:19] <dibblego> this 650 line method
[12:09:24] <cybereal> hehe
[12:09:34] <dibblego> was in a recursive call because some twit reused a loop index
[12:09:54] <dibblego> for(int i = 0; i < whatever; i++){/* ~250 lines */for(i = 0; i < whateverElse; i++){}}
[12:10:03] <dibblego> and that's not even the bad bit of the code
[12:10:07] <dibblego> that's just the bug I had to fix
[12:10:14] <dibblego> damn, it was bad
[12:10:42] <dibblego> I even decided to sent an instant message to the person that wrote it, and ask him if he is still permitted to write code
[12:10:43] <ulver> in the second for use j
[12:10:49] <dibblego> I'm likely to be fired any day soon anyway
[12:10:52] <ricky_clarkson> dibblego: I always look with suspicion at a for loop that doesn't declare its variable.
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[12:11:00] <dibblego> ricky_clarkson: same
[12:11:09] <dibblego> but you could never have found it with visual observation
[12:11:15] <dibblego> it was a friggin' mess
[12:11:23] <ricky_clarkson> Set a CheckStyle check for it. ;)
[12:11:26] <dibblego> I had to use a debugger to nail it down
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[12:11:35] <dibblego> no, IDEA style checker > CheckStyle
[12:11:45] <ricky_clarkson> Whatever, make it look for those.
[12:11:52] <dibblego> the sidebar of IDEA is entirely yellow or red for this code, so it's pointless anyway
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[12:12:19] <bowyakka> hello peepes
[12:12:21] <dibblego> I have IDEA configured pretty strict though, but I think the default config wouldn't make a difference
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[12:12:32] <bowyakka> anyone have any experiance sending automated emails to hotmail
[12:12:39] <ricky_clarkson> Sometimes cleaning up the code can be a good way of finding the problem, even if you don't commit the cleaned up code.
[12:12:47] <dibblego> bowyakka: yep, I click send and bam, automatically sent
[12:13:02] <bowyakka> dibblego, i mean running from a javamail program
[12:13:04] <dibblego> ricky_clarkson: no code refactoring tool I know of can sucessfully "clean it up"
[12:13:07] <ricky_clarkson> dibblego: I have two Checkstyle configs, one for 'perfect' code and one to spot bugs in other peoples' code.
[12:13:10] <bowyakka> it seems to drop everything
[12:13:18] <dibblego> I'm dead serious; I don't think you really know just how bad this code is
[12:13:24] <dibblego> *nothing* can fix it
[12:13:37] <dibblego> I've tried *everything*
[12:13:37] <Epesh> dibblego: what does it do?
[12:13:37] <ricky_clarkson> dibblego: I've seen some bad shit.
[12:13:49] <Epesh> bowyakka: um, hotmail can be sent to like any other service
[12:13:52] <dibblego> Epesh: erm, I'd like to answer that, but while I'm still employed...
[12:14:01] <bowyakka> Epesh, hehehehe I would like that
[12:14:03] <dibblego> in any case, has anyone downloaded the IBM 5.0 beta?
[12:14:12] <dibblego> and maybe looked at a file called gskikm.jar?
[12:14:26] <dibblego> just thought someone might have, that's all :)
[12:14:35] <ricky_clarkson> Why, is your name in it?
[12:14:42] <dibblego> lol!
[12:15:01] <dibblego> I think of myself as humble, but I wouldn't say self-insulting
[12:15:02] <Epesh> bowyakka: ?
[12:15:14] <cybereal> bowyakka: you clearly don't understand how email works
[12:15:22] <Epesh> dibblego: "self-deprecating" is the normal word for that
[12:15:44] * ricky_clarkson is too stupid to self-deprecate.
[12:15:45] <dibblego> I thought it was self-denigrating
[12:15:47] <bowyakka> Epesh, javamail sends, SMTP output is fine hotmail does not have any email in any test inbox
[12:16:00] <Epesh> bowyakka: is it spam?
[12:16:08] <Epesh> does hotmail recognize it as spam?
[12:16:08] <bowyakka> no booking confirmations !
[12:16:19] <Epesh> dibblego: that'd work too but have far less common usage
[12:16:23] <bowyakka> nope it doesnt appear, even in the junk mail folder
[12:16:28] <Epesh> and "self-deprecating" is pretty freakin' rare too
[12:16:30] <dibblego> Hi! you have a booking confirmation, just send me 50 bucks
[12:16:40] <ricky_clarkson> Epesh: Not at all.
[12:16:43] <Epesh> bowyakka: well, I've sent mail to hotmail via javamail, nothing special to it
[12:16:44] <dibblego> it's not spam, it's penis extensions!
[12:16:46] <ricky_clarkson> "Self-deprecating humour".
[12:17:00] <dibblego> yeah, it rings a bell now
[12:17:02] <Epesh> ricky_clarkson: compare that to other common phrases... and it's rare. By comparison.
[12:17:08] <Epesh> Do you understand comparisons?
[12:17:13] <ricky_clarkson> Penis extension?!  Get a sexier girlfriend.
[12:17:19] <dibblego> < > == !=
[12:17:30] <Eclipser> sexyness is in the eye of the beholder :p
[12:17:31] <bowyakka> wow its possibly the lowest tone i have seen yet in ##java
[12:17:33] <Epesh> dibblego: was talking to ricky_clarkson.
[12:17:33] <dibblego> or a shorter one
[12:17:37] <cybereal> heh penis extension... is that like, some device that makes your penis do other things than it was designed for?
[12:17:39] <ricky_clarkson> Epesh: Compared to "Big Mac and fries", yes.
[12:17:48] <cybereal> "Here we offer you the ladle extension for making soup"
[12:17:52] <cybereal> ladel
[12:17:55] <dibblego> tone of an IRC channel? awesome!
[12:17:57] <cybereal> ladle, which is it? dmanit
[12:17:59] <dibblego> technology is bril
[12:18:02] * cybereal can't type
[12:18:12] <dibblego> self-deprecating ladle
[12:18:13] <ricky_clarkson> ladle I think.
[12:18:24] <ricky_clarkson> Might be one of those that's spelled wrong in the US, dunno.
[12:18:25] <bowyakka> dibblego, humm i wonder what i would get if i piped java into dev/dsp
[12:18:38] <Epesh> cybereal: ask ricky_clarkson, he's all into the ladles
[12:18:43] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: no it's a third category: Stupid spelling altogether
[12:18:43] <ricky_clarkson> bowyakka: Depends whether you have mohadib on ignore.
[12:18:56] <Epesh> bowyakka: noise, of course.
[12:19:15] <cybereal> bowyakka: it'd be more interesting if you piped it into /dev/hda
[12:19:21] * agnul takes note: checkstyle
[12:19:21] <bowyakka> Epesh, but how pretty a noise, i mean /dev/random is more ugly than /dev/hda
[12:20:10] <ricky_clarkson> I played the contents of RAM on the Amiga and I think /dev/random sounds better than that.
[12:20:10] <Epesh> bowyakka: no idea, but the signal woul have a fairly low set to choose from: generally 0-127 at nonsensical sequences
[12:20:42] <bowyakka> again this is all totally off topic
[12:21:15] <ricky_clarkson> It's a meta-conversation.
[12:22:07] <dibblego> don't you know the channel rules? as soon as pr3d4t0r leaves, the topic is dynamic
[12:23:23] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ricky_clarkson
[12:23:33] *** ricky_clarkson sets mode: -o ricky_clarkson
[12:24:31] <ricky_clarkson> He's only left because of network difficulties, which are now solved.
[12:27:39] <roots-> yes uk is only left because of network problems :)
[12:27:43] <roots-> hope they get resolved soon
[12:27:49] <ricky_clarkson> What?
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[12:28:38] <roots-> just kidding
[12:29:15] <BULLE> roots-: mind a swing question ? about repainting of things that take a LONG time ?
[12:29:25] <roots-> yeah
[12:29:33] <BULLE> okies, no question then
[12:29:37] <roots-> i mean its ok, but i will be only 10% focussed, ask anyhow though
[12:29:50] * roots- neglects irc
[12:30:07] <BULLE> roots-: oh, its simple, i have a pretty BIG dataset, i want to plot, its a few million datapoints, so plotting it all via the swing thread is not going to give me a responsive app
[12:30:33] <BULLE> roots-: so i was thinking that i should spawn a new thread, that plots in the background, to some type of bitmap, and then just display the bitmap, in the swing app
[12:30:36] <BULLE> roots-: is that a sane approach ?
[12:30:56] <roots-> usually not
[12:31:01] <BULLE> aha
[12:31:06] <BULLE> so what should i do then ?
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[12:36:25] <basix> where will i find good info about sending files over the internet??
[12:36:36] <ricky_clarkson> ~rfcs
[12:36:36] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, I have no idea what rfcs is.
[12:36:41] <ricky_clarkson> ~rfc
[12:36:42] <javabot> ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfcrfc.txt or http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfcrfc.html - depending on your preference.
[12:36:43] <Drone> That URL gave the following error code: 404 Not Found
[12:36:52] <BULLE> basix: what do you mean with sending files over the internet ?
[12:36:56] <ricky_clarkson> basix: Be more specific.
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[12:37:45] <basix> BULLE, i want to know how files (binary / ascii) are transmitted over the internet (eg. Instant messengers - p2p file transfers, Email attachments etc...)
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[12:38:06] <ricky_clarkson> basix: Go and learn about sockets.
[12:38:11] <ricky_clarkson> About TCP.
[12:38:17] <basix> are they converted to some specific format? (i've heard of UUEncode...)
[12:38:37] <roots-> no, binary is fine
[12:38:37] <basix> ok...
[12:38:48] <roots-> unless embdeed in some kind of text encoded format
[12:38:52] <roots-> embedded
[12:39:03] <roots-> BULLE: in your paintComponent, you have a clipRect set
[12:39:20] <roots-> do you pay any attention to that one ?
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[12:39:30] <roots-> is the entire dataset visible at a time ?
[12:41:53] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: Why not the ImageIcon route?
[12:42:09] <BULLE> roots-: ah yes
[12:42:12] <BULLE> roots-: and yes, it is
[12:42:32] <BULLE> roots-: im retarded, but yes, i have tried to optimize things by just painting stuff that is visible
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[12:47:20] <roots-> imageicon route ?
[12:47:57] <ricky_clarkson> Image on ImageIcon on JLabel.
[12:48:08] <roots-> BULLE: you could paint before hand if you want to yes, ImageProducers come in handy
[12:48:22] <BULLE> thanks
[12:48:31] <roots-> i think with large vector data sets user drawig is still the only way
[12:48:32] <BULLE> time to google for teh ImageProducers
[12:48:38] <roots-> since buffering such a large image might be a problem
[12:48:43] <roots-> do you support zooming/viewports ?
[12:49:02] <BULLE> roots-: not now no, but i guess that would be a future addition that would be nice, atleast zoomig
[12:51:27] <ricky_clarkson> How big is the image?
[12:57:20] <roots-> indeed
[12:57:25] <roots-> how many pixels with zoom = 1.0
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[13:05:31] <dibblego> as a point to note, the person who wrote the code catch(IOException e){if(e.toString().startsWith("java.io.FileNotFoundException"){blah();}} is at a higher level within the corporation than I am, which bothers me only on the point that I'm constantly reminded of the stupidity that I work in 8 hours a day
[13:05:54] <Stork> LOL!!!!!
[13:06:30] <dibblego> in fact, I've been offered a "job title promotion", which I declined for this very reason; this is NOT a corner case
[13:06:32] <ricky_clarkson> Yeah, they missed a )
[13:06:41] <dibblego> I just slapped that out
[13:06:42] <Stork> rofl!!
[13:07:00] <Epesh> hahaha
[13:07:12] <ricky_clarkson> I've been given an involuntary backdated pay-rise ;(
[13:07:31] <roots-> dibblego: but thats not surprise
[13:07:41] <roots-> dibblego: its the usual way of things
[13:07:43] <teralaser> ricky_clarkson ???
[13:07:47] <dibblego> roots-: I'm not surprised at all; just reminded of the stupidity
[13:07:56] <roots-> the idiots get promoted, the experts fired
[13:07:57] <dibblego> roots-: yes, I learned that lesson a few years ago
[13:07:57] <ricky_clarkson> teralaser: I think you missed out the words.
[13:08:49] <teralaser> if you complain about "an involuntary backdated pay-rise", you have some serious tax/social welfare issues in the U.K.
[13:09:45] <ricky_clarkson> You need to appear idiotic to fit in, then insidiously change things from the inside.  Or get annoyed and become a real idiot yourself.
[13:09:50] <dibblego> I received two performance bonuses in one month, which put me in the highest tax bracket (49%), plus HECS (uni fees), a student loan from years ago, etc.; I saw nothing
[13:10:11] <BULLE> roots-: how many pixels ? you mean how many datapoints ? a few million most likely
[13:10:20] <ricky_clarkson> teralaser: Topical sarcasm.
[13:10:29] <dibblego> well, something, but not much more than nothing
[13:10:45] <ricky_clarkson> My income tax is about, um, 25% I think.
[13:10:47] <BULLE> dibblego: he, its lovel to hear such things!
[13:10:48] <dibblego> I refuse to "fit in"
[13:10:54] <dibblego> I am working towards "fitting out" as we speak
[13:11:09] <BULLE> dibblego: i mean, if people that use string comparisons like that in exception handling, can get a job, i can get one to!
[13:11:15] <dibblego> open the cage, and join the monkeys
[13:11:21] <dibblego> I'd rather sit in my own monkey cage
[13:11:38] <ricky_clarkson> BULLE: Except so sane person would employ a Swede.
[13:11:43] <ricky_clarkson> s/so/no/
[13:11:52] <BULLE> ricky_clarkson: i will just claim i come from norway!
[13:11:58] * ricky_clarkson throws new B0rkException
[13:12:02] <BULLE> =)
[13:12:25] <BULLE> ricky_clarkson: no big international company will notice my swedish accent when i speak norwegian =)
[13:12:25] <roots-> BULLE: event based painting of the exposed pixels is one approach
[13:12:33] <roots-> you probably need to leverage a few techniques
[13:12:33] <dibblego> even our most senior architect in the whole company is a total fucktard, which pretty much sums it up; anyone work on JSR groups?
[13:12:36] <roots-> buffering is also good
[13:12:50] <roots-> dibblego: evangelist ? :)
[13:13:05] <BULLE> roots-: like, painting 1000 pixels, let the swing thread to its thing, then pain 1000 more ?
[13:13:11] <dibblego> these senior spack-it-up architect 'tards seem to offer great lip service and *appear* to know what they're talking about
[13:13:14] <dibblego> *spank
[13:13:40] <dibblego> I had a bad day :)
[13:14:22] <BULLE> dibblego: here, i got told to stfu, when i complained about a guys code, with the motivation that the guy is a great coder, he had written a parser for a certain filetype used here, his code used a fixed buffer for reading in stuff, a quick look at the size of his buffer, and the average filesize in production told me that its not going to work
[13:14:35] <BULLE> but complaining was useless, because he knows how to code, im a biologist so i dont!
[13:14:38] <BULLE> well, thats true
[13:15:17] <teralaser> dibblego : Constructive criticism ! *mantra*
[13:15:28] <ricky_clarkson> BULLE: Who told you to STFU?
[13:15:46] <dibblego> I'm complete in knowing I'm working towards getting out of this fuck hole I have dug for myself
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[13:15:53] <dibblego> entering this industry was the biggest mistake in my life
[13:16:03] <dibblego> and I've even chopped off 2 fingers :)
[13:16:27] <dibblego> and, owned a Mitsubishi
[13:16:32] <teralaser> Didnt know about that "Sawmill and Java(tm)" industry.
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[13:17:20] <ricky_clarkson> My parents used to own a Mitsubishi.  I used to push it along the drive with the handbrake on.
[13:17:21] <BULLE> ricky_clarkson: the boss
[13:17:27] <BULLE> ricky_clarkson: the project leader
[13:17:35] <ricky_clarkson> BULLE: I thought you meant in ##java ;)
[13:17:46] <BULLE> ricky_clarkson: oh, no, people are to kind here, they seldom tell me to STFU
[13:18:01] <dibblego> STFU BULLE
[13:18:06] <ricky_clarkson> No, we just force you to. ;)
[13:18:14] <axxo> 2/
[13:18:19] <ricky_clarkson> /win 2
[13:19:05] <BULLE> dibblego: i love you to
[13:19:14] <dibblego> aw shucks
[13:19:33] <ricky_clarkson> Oh, the romance.
[13:19:42] <ricky_clarkson> dibblego: I admire your pulling technique.
[13:19:50] <BULLE>  <3
[13:19:55] <dibblego> works well hey?
[13:20:26] <ricky_clarkson> dibblego: Does "fancy a fuck?" work in Australia, or is it a backward country?
[13:20:45] <dibblego> that might work with a foreign accent
[13:20:59] <Stork> "Fuck me if I'm wrong, but don't you want to give me head?"
[13:21:00] <dibblego> but I don't like yourchances
[13:21:00] * ricky_clarkson grows a moustache and calls himself Borat.
[13:21:31] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: You might get head-butted.
[13:21:47] <Stork> yes, the statement still has a few flaws
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[13:21:55] <ricky_clarkson> Rack off! *bang*
[13:22:00] <Stork> hehe
[13:23:14] <dibblego> bed, later
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[13:23:42] <ricky_clarkson> Is that a promise?
[13:28:57] <Stork> haha
[13:29:14] <Stork> ~ricky_clarkson++
[13:29:16] <javabot> ricky_clarkson has a karma level of 100, Stork
[13:30:01] <ricky_clarkson> Woo, the century.
[13:30:04] <Stork> ooh, the big 1-0-0
[13:30:37] <ricky_clarkson> I'll get a telegram from the Queen.
[13:30:38] <Stork> i need something to code
[13:31:26] <Stork> ricky_clarkson
[13:31:40] <roots-> BULLE: in general do your painting from paintComponent
[13:31:42] <Stork> i still don't see why i can't make a subclass of OutputStream
[13:31:51] <roots-> when it gets slow pay attention to the clipRect
[13:32:03] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: I don't see why you would.
[13:32:05] <roots-> pay attention to that anyhow if your data is hierachically bounded
[13:32:23] <Stork> i would have thought it'd be nicer
[13:32:31] <ricky_clarkson> Why?
[13:32:33] <Stork> easier to use
[13:33:07] <ricky_clarkson> How would you use it?
[13:33:17] <Stork> instead of, EncryptedOutputStream out = new EncryptedOutputStream(something.getOutputStream(), new EncryptionKey());
[13:39:37] <Stork> what i don't understand is how can a paramater be changed if it's not a return value
[13:39:51] <Stork> eg, InputStream.read(byte[])
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[13:43:42] <teralaser> Stork , think of byte[] as a pointer :D
[13:43:51] <Stork> pointer?
[13:43:54] <Gerrit> How do I create a BigInteger from an int?
[13:43:56] <teralaser> Oh-Uh
[13:44:49] <roots-> new BigInteger(someInt);
[13:44:53] <Gerrit> http://www.cdt.luth.se/java/doc/jdk1.4.2/api/java/math/BigInteger.html lists six way to construct a BigInteger, but converting an int into a BigInteger doesn't seem to be listed?
[13:45:05] <Gerrit> Hm, that should work?
[13:45:11] <roots-> Gerrit: in a long context you can always use an int
[13:45:12] <Gerrit> In that case my error is something else...
[13:45:16] <roots-> int i = 10; long j = i;
[13:45:25] <roots-> its an implicit type widening converion
[13:45:27] <roots-> conversion
[13:45:35] <Gerrit> ok
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[13:46:49] <websheriff> I want to integrate hibernate nicely into Tapestry4, now that Tapestry is built on HiveMind I thought that a hivemind service could be used to "inject" hibernate into my tapestry app. I then found Hivetranse that is exactly this thing, problem is that I havn`t seen much feedback from people using hivetranse. So if there is anyone here who could tell me their experience with hivetranse (good or bad) please do!
[13:47:23] <ricky_clarkson2> Stork, You were originally trying to subclass FileOutputStream.
[13:47:25] <Gerrit> Like this: "BigInteger m = new BigInteger(i);", where 'i' is an int? I get "cannot resolve symbol" while compiling when I try that.
[13:48:04] <Stork> ricky_clarkson2: would it be alright to subclass OutputStream then?
[13:48:12] <ricky_clarkson2> Now you want to subclass OutputStream, which is slightly better, but still pointless.
[13:48:12] <Gerrit> I'm probably making some beginners' mistake
[13:48:30] <websheriff> Gerrit, have you declared i? and have you included the package for BigInts?
[13:48:31] <BULLE> Gerrit: what symbol can it not resovel ? BigInteger ?
[13:48:45] <Gerrit> 'new'
[13:48:45] <Stork> ricky_clarkson2: alright, i wont subclass it :(
[13:49:02] <Gerrit> I reference 'BigInteger' earlier in the code, succesfully, and included the package
[13:49:16] <Gerrit> '            int i=42;' is the previous line
[13:49:40] <Gerrit> It points at 'new'
[13:49:44] <websheriff> Gerrit, if you get this error on "new" then you probably got some typo somewhere else in youre code
[13:49:50] <Gerrit> oh, OK.
[13:49:58] <Stork> ~javadocs biginteger
[13:49:58] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'javadocs' might be appropriate:
[13:50:00] <javabot> Stork, javadocs is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api
[13:50:03] <Stork> :|
[13:50:08] <Stork> ~javadocs BigInteger
[13:50:08] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'javadocs' might be appropriate:
[13:50:10] <javabot> Stork, javadocs is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api
[13:50:15] <Gerrit> I'll check
[13:50:43] <ricky_clarkson2> Stork, Why is new SomethingOutputStream(outputstream).readFully() any easier than OutputStreamUtility.readFully() ?
[13:51:17] <Stork> it's not, i guess
[13:53:14] <ricky_clarkson2> er, OutputStreamUtility.readFully(outputStream) I meant. ;)
[13:54:58] <Stork> i think i'm pretty much done with my i/o streams
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[13:55:21] <Stork> this my crypto package is almost completed
[13:55:24] <Stork> what to do now!
[13:55:41] <Logi> Stork: hey! are you duplicating my work!
[13:55:51] <Stork> i am :( ?
[13:56:19] <Drone> View Gerrit's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8578
[13:56:20] <Logi> Stork: almost everything has been done already
[13:56:24] <Logi> Stork: perhaps you did it better...
[13:56:31] <Stork> i didn't, i'm sure
[13:56:31] <Gerrit> aw it wraps
[13:56:53] <Logi> Stork: did you implement encrypting/decrypting streams?
[13:56:54] <Gerrit> It's wrapping the code around
[13:57:03] <Logi> Gerrit: yeah, it's pretty annoying
[13:57:12] <Gerrit> But where is the error?
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[13:57:39] <Stork> yes Logi, i did
[13:57:53] <Stork> key based one time padding encryption on the streams
[13:58:00] <Gerrit> "BigInteger m = new BigInteger(42);" results in "cannot resolve symbol", pointing at "new"
[13:58:06] <Logi> Stork: that's not an OTP
[13:58:15] <Logi> Stork: that's a stream cipher, a completely different thing
[13:58:22] <Stork> ???
[13:58:50] <Logi> Stork: an OTP is a truly random stream of bytes that you xor or add to your plaintext to get the ciphertext
[13:58:53] <ricky_clarkson2> ~javadoc BigInteger.BigInteger(int)
[13:58:54] <javabot> I don't know of any documentation for BigInteger.BigInteger(int)
[13:58:59] <Logi> the key here is "truly random"
[13:59:03] <ricky_clarkson2> Gerrit, that constructor doesn't exist.
[13:59:06] <Gerrit> So
[13:59:12] <Gerrit> How do I create a BigInteger from an int?
[13:59:14] <Logi> Stork: anything generated from a key is only pseudo random
[13:59:27] <Logi> Gerrit: isn't there a static factory method for that on BigInteger?
[13:59:31] <websheriff> Gerrit, look at http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/math/BigInteger.html
[13:59:34] <Gerrit> hm
[13:59:35] <Stork> not if the key is made from random bytes & is the same length of the file itself
[13:59:43] <Gerrit> I was looking at http://www.cdt.luth.se/java/doc/jdk1.4.2/api/java/math/BigInteger.html
[13:59:48] <Logi> Stork: ok, yes, that's OTP
[13:59:55] <Gerrit> aah
[13:59:56] <Gerrit> valueOf
[13:59:58] <Logi> Stork: I understood you as having a shorter key being expanded
[14:00:10] <Gerrit> I wasn't aware of the difference between a constructor and a static factory method
[14:00:15] <Stork> key size is optional
[14:00:27] <websheriff> Gerrit, that`s the one :)
[14:00:42] <Stork> i have a static method in my EncryptionKey class which returns a completely random byte[] with a given length. If the length was the same length of the data itself then it'd be completely random
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[14:01:16] <ricky_clarkson2> Anyone understand Stork's last sentence?
[14:01:41] <Stork> made sense to me :\
[14:02:26] <Logi> Stork: you only get completely random data from a hardware entropy source
[14:02:34] <Logi> Stork: how do you construct the EncryptionKey?
[14:02:44] <Stork> using either a string or a byte array
[14:02:54] <Logi> Stork: with a smaller key which is then used to create the longer key?
[14:03:32] <Stork> nope
[14:04:36] <Logi> Stork: hmm.. how do you then generate this random data?
[14:04:43] <Logi> Stork: SecureRandom ?
[14:06:29] <Stork> java.util.Random.nextBytes(byte[]);
[14:06:36] <Stork> lol :s
[14:06:54] <Logi> Stork: that is a very bad entropy source...
[14:07:05] <Logi> Stork: at *leaset* use SecureRandom
[14:07:08] <Logi> least
[14:07:14] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: Do you care about true randomness?
[14:07:26] <Logi> ricky_clarkson: thi is crypto, there is only one answer to that
[14:07:31] <Gerrit> Am I supposed to call a staticmethod like "BigInteger m = new BigInteger.valueOf(i);"? This is listed at http://www.cdt.luth.se/java/doc/jdk1.4.2/api/java/math/BigInteger.html but it results in a "cannot resolve symbol, class valueOf". What is the correct syntax?
[14:07:52] <Stork> ricky_clarkson: i had no idea that Random wouldn't be random enough
[14:08:12] <Gerrit> Oh, it's not a constructor
[14:08:19] <Gerrit> so I probably don't use 'new'
[14:08:28] <Gerrit> that's it (-:
[14:08:52] <Gerrit> (sorry, I'm not really learning Java - my teacher says this class can be completed with a minimum of Java knowledge, I'm really a Pythoneer)
[14:09:23] <Stork> :|
[14:09:25] <ricky_clarkson> Gerrit: That wold be trying to instantiate a class called valueof, which is either in the package BigInteger, or is a nested class inside BigInteger.
[14:09:32] <Gerrit> I see
[14:09:47] <ricky_clarkson> Gerrit: "I'm not really driving, I'm trying to get to the airport".
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[14:10:07] <Gerrit> Yes
[14:10:15] <Gerrit> Sorry (-:
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[14:10:52] <Gerrit> Once I arrive at the airport I can do the rest by plane
[14:11:09] <Stork> ~javadocs SecureRandom
[14:11:10] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'javadocs' might be appropriate:
[14:11:12] <javabot> Stork, javadocs is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api
[14:11:17] <ricky_clarkson2> ~javadoc SecureRandom
[14:11:18] <javabot> ricky_clarkson2, please see java.security.SecureRandom: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/security/SecureRandom.html
[14:11:25] <Stork> blah, thanks
[14:11:38] <ricky_clarkson2> ~javadocs $1 is <reply>I think you mean javadoc $1, $who.
[14:11:40] <javabot> Okay, ricky_clarkson2.
[14:11:43] <ricky_clarkson2> ~javadocs String
[14:11:43] <javabot> I think you mean javadoc String, ricky_clarkson2.
[14:12:21] <Stork> clever
[14:12:59] <Stork> ricky_clarkson2: so i'd use SecureRandom exactly the same was as Random?
[14:13:12] <ricky_clarkson2> ~leech Stork
[14:13:13] * javabot removes the bloodsucking Stork from ricky_clarkson2 and attaches him to a frying pan.
[14:13:28] <Stork> hater
[14:13:38] <Stork> it was a queston, not a leech
[14:14:08] <Stork> i have no idea how you can have a "secure" random
[14:14:16] <Stork> and indeed an unsecure one..
[14:14:18] <ricky_clarkson2> Go and read the docs of both classes.
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[14:14:29] <ricky_clarkson> Yeah, I agree.
[14:14:29] <BULLE> ~leech BULLE
[14:14:30] * javabot removes the bloodsucking BULLE from BULLE and attaches him to a frying pan.
[14:15:47] <paulweb515> Perhaps not so tasty ...
[14:16:17] <akatadektos_> Any ideas if the annoying Vector "warning: [unchecked] unchecked cast" has come to a fix?
[14:16:27] <ricky_clarkson2> ~tell akatadektos_ about generics
[14:16:27] <javabot> akatadektos_, generics is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/language/generics.html
[14:16:49] <Stork> hooray for generics!
[14:17:05] <ricky_clarkson2> Generics: Deterring the newbie for 1 year!
[14:17:37] <ricky_clarkson2> I suppose it's not really newbies they're deterring, but people who've been using Java for years and years without learning it.
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[14:18:30] <tanq> heh
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[14:19:00] <akatadektos_> hehe..not a newbie...I ll send you the bug number in a bit ;)
[14:19:18] <ricky_clarkson2> What's the issue then?
[14:20:54] <akatadektos_> when you try to load a vector with (Vector<MyObject>)ObjectInputStream.getObject() it returns with that warning
[14:21:13] <ricky_clarkson2> That's because generics are compile-time.
[14:21:42] <ricky_clarkson2> Vector vector=(Vector)objectInputStream.getObject();
[14:22:08] <akatadektos_> So, how can you do the above, without getting these annoying warnings?
[14:22:16] <ricky_clarkson2> Vector<MyObject> vector2=new Vector<MyObject>(); for (final Object object: vector) vector2.add((MyObject)vector);
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[14:24:02] <akatadektos_> I ll try that thanks
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[14:30:37] <dingo001> hey all
[14:30:46] <dingo001> ricky_clarkson: ping
[14:30:56] <dingo001> cheeser: ping
[14:31:55] <dingo001> i have this xml http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8570
[14:31:59] <ricky_clarkson2> pong
[14:32:32] <dingo001> i want to read it and search into it, the last we spoke was that digester to could read this into objects and then i could search the objects
[14:32:45] <dingo001> how can do that, searching the objects that is
[14:32:49] <dingo001> hows u ricky_clarkson
[14:32:54] <ricky_clarkson2> ~javadoc Digester
[14:32:54] <javabot> I don't know of any documentation for Digester
[14:33:00] * ricky_clarkson2 doesn't remember this conversation.
[14:33:28] <akatadektos_> ricky_clarkson2: I dont get the last part. You mean add each Object to my vector?
[14:33:35] <dingo001> well.. the big question is that using saxon and dom i can use xpath expressions to search the xml
[14:33:38] <ricky_clarkson2> akatadektos_, yes.
[14:33:58] <dingo001> but that is taking too much time, so we talked about how we can reduce the time it takes to search
[14:34:31] <dingo001> ring a bell?
[14:34:36] <ricky_clarkson2> My advice was to make sure you are only loading the data once, and to cut down the size from 20 MB.
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[14:34:44] <ricky_clarkson2> And to run a profiler.
[14:35:17] <akatadektos_> ricky_clarkson2: so it 's either that warning or an unneccecary overhead?
[14:35:28] <dingo001> i am loading the data only once, cannot cut it down from 20MB, profiler will tell me where i am getting stuck, but i will try that again
[14:35:41] <ricky_clarkson2> akatadektos_, I believe so.  Generics are not implemented particularly well imo.
[14:35:57] <dingo001> any other ideas, on how to read the xml into objects and then searching the objects, load time and memory does not matter
[14:36:02] <ricky_clarkson2> dingo001, oh yeah, I would shove the data into a db.
[14:36:19] <dingo001> ricky_clarkson: cant do that
[14:36:25] <ricky_clarkson2> Bullshit.
[14:36:40] <dingo001> really cant
[14:36:58] <ricky_clarkson2> Do you know that some databases can run in-memory?  HSQLDB I've used, Derby I haven't (but Derby is reportedly faster for large datasets).
[14:37:04] <dingo001> there are many things i could do for this project but this is the way they want it
[14:37:29] <akatadektos_> SuppressWarnings("unchecked")
[14:37:39] <ricky_clarkson2> akatadektos_, doesn't work in 1.5.
[14:37:41] <akatadektos_> ricky_clarkson: java forums suggest @SuppressWarnings("unchecked")
[14:37:48] <ricky_clarkson2> akatadektos_, doesn't work in 1.5.
[14:37:49] <agnul> what about searching the XML with xpath ?
[14:37:56] <ricky_clarkson2> agnul, he does that.
[14:38:06] <dingo001> agnul: i have done that, but the response time is pitiful
[14:38:33] <ricky_clarkson2> dingo001, what's wrong with an in-memory database?
[14:39:02] <ricky_clarkson2> I don't think you understand what I'm saying, if you think you can't use that.
[14:39:04] <dingo001> ricky_clarkson: there is nothing wrong with it, just that i cannot use it for this project
[14:39:08] <ricky_clarkson2> Yes you can.
[14:39:26] <ricky_clarkson2> It's just a Java library that stores data in memory and you can search that data.
[14:39:37] <ricky_clarkson2> Like DOM, but fasterererer.
[14:39:41] <dingo001> you mean exist?
[14:39:52] <ricky_clarkson2> Speak English please.
[14:39:57] <agnul> buy a tamino license and let it do the searching then. (kidding)
[14:40:02] <dingo001> exist is an xml database
[14:40:10] <ricky_clarkson2> No, I do not mean XML.
[14:40:17] <ricky_clarkson2> Derby or HSQLDB.
[14:40:18] <dingo001> hqldb then
[14:40:20] <ricky_clarkson2> ~derby
[14:40:21] <javabot> ricky_clarkson2, derby is a Java RDBMS undergoing incubation at Apache Software Foundation, see http://incubator.apache.org/derby/
[14:40:24] <KingNato> db4o looks like a more interesting in-memory database than hsqldb and other relational solutions
[14:40:37] <ricky_clarkson2> Ah, whatever, try some out.
[14:40:53] <Epesh> derby is pretty nice
[14:41:01] <ricky_clarkson2> At least you shouldn't have to write much db-specific code when you want to switch DBs.
[14:41:14] <dingo001> is there an example out there for loading xml into derby or hsqldb?
[14:41:17] <KingNato> Unless of course you actually want to use SQL, of course
[14:41:32] <dingo001> then use sql to query the db?
[14:41:49] <ricky_clarkson2> dingo001, you could do it either by iterating over the DOM or by handling SaxEvents directly.
[14:42:06] <ricky_clarkson2> Probably the DOM would be easier.
[14:42:28] <ricky_clarkson2> Btw, I do NOT suggest putting the XML in the DB, just the data it contains.
[14:44:36] <dingo001> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8570 ie from here , create a property table and insert all the data into the table
[14:44:37] <dingo001> ?
[14:45:13] <ricky_clarkson2> Yep.
[14:45:24] <ricky_clarkson2> Is the whole file 20MB of that?
[14:45:48] <ricky_clarkson2> "6 mi. NE of Low Gap on Low Gap Fork"
[14:45:50] <ricky_clarkson2> Nice.
[14:45:52] <Goc> I have an applet that tries to open a file from the applets root direcory (simply an overridden Property-class that loads some settings from file), but I get a AccessControlException denying me the right to access the file that contains the settings. Shouldn't it be allowed to access any file I want from the same directory that I have the Applet?
[14:46:18] <dingo001> its test data
[14:46:22] <roots-> Goc: nope
[14:46:29] <roots-> the File is on the user system
[14:46:33] <roots-> you get the idea right ?
[14:46:34] <dingo001> sometimes the things they throw at you
[14:46:46] <roots-> if i run the applet, it tries to open a file on my box
[14:46:49] <ricky_clarkson2> Goc, applets can only access stuff from the server they came from.  The http/https server.
[14:46:52] <roots-> use Class.getResource
[14:47:07] <ricky_clarkson2> roots-, oh, oops.
[14:47:10] <roots-> certainly makes sense that they cannot read files on people's computers
[14:47:17] <ricky_clarkson2> Goc, listen to roots- ;)
[14:47:29] <ricky_clarkson2> rogue-kun{B}|Awa, get a shorter nick, backspacing this thing is annoying.
[14:48:12] <Goc> Oh, I thought that if I dodn't say anything, it would automatically fetch it from the server, but now that I come to think of it, that's not really logical...
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[14:51:12] <ricky_clarkson2> I've got a wad of code that I've rewritten, but I've still got the old stuff around.
[14:52:57] <ricky_clarkson2> Removing it will not be trivial (which is one reason it's rewritten).  Just wondering whether to actually remove it.
[14:53:07] <ricky_clarkson2> The annoying thing is that the SVN repo is not online atm. ;(
[14:53:13] <roots-> svn--
[14:53:28] <roots-> Goc: a File is on the local system
[14:53:43] <roots-> unless some transparent mechanism is in place, like nfs or smb
[14:53:49] <roots-> but still it appears as local then
[14:54:11] <akatadektos_> ricky_clarkson2: Arrays.asList is a good effective workaround
[14:54:38] <akatadektos_> ricky_clarkson2: along with Vector.toArray
[14:59:02] <roots-> Vector is a List
[14:59:43] <ricky_clarkson> akatadektos_: So you serialise the array?
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[15:02:18] <ricky_clarkson2> I think I'll find a way of disabling the old code first, make sure it gives RuntimeExceptions etc.
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[15:09:19] <saintiss> hi
[15:09:36] <saintiss> is it possible to find out the types of the template parameters of a class by means of reflection?
[15:09:59] <saintiss> e.g. I've got a variable myCollection, and I would like to know dynamically what the parameter types were
[15:10:34] <saintiss> so, suppose the declaration was LinkedList<String> myCollection, then I would like a way to get the String class starting from the myCollection variable
[15:10:42] <ricky_clarkson2> saintiss, Generics are entirely compile-time.
[15:11:19] <ricky_clarkson2> It's like asking for the contents of // comments
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[15:12:10] <saintiss> ricky_clarkson2, interesting... so generics only added extra compile-time type safety but basically nothing new?
[15:12:15] <ricky_clarkson2> Right.
[15:12:27] <ricky_clarkson2> If you want runtime type safety, use Collections.checkedList
[15:12:34] <ricky_clarkson2> etc.
[15:12:48] <Honk^away> they added convenience for accessig 'em too ;) that's why everyone luvs 'em
[15:13:23] <saintiss> ricky_clarkson2, I just wanted a way to look up element types of collections, but I guess that's still impossible then
[15:13:39] <saintiss> provided you want to allow empty collections that is
[15:13:43] <ricky_clarkson2> saintiss, you can look up the type of an object.
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[15:13:52] <ricky_clarkson2> saintiss, why would you want empty collections?
[15:13:58] <ricky_clarkson2> assuming that by empty you mean untyped.
[15:14:20] <saintiss> no... I assumed you meant I could find out the element type by looking up the type of the first element
[15:14:27] <ricky_clarkson2> How am I supposed to play away when my home team is coming out with me? ;(
[15:14:47] <ricky_clarkson2> saintiss, No, I didn't mean that.
[15:15:13] <ricky_clarkson2> saintiss, Why would you need to know, other than compile-time, the parameter type of a generic collection?
[15:15:56] <saintiss> ricky_clarkson2, well, it's for evaluating OCL constraints on Java, which uses static type checking
[15:16:08] <ricky_clarkson2> ~ocl
[15:16:09] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'noclassdeffounderror' might be appropriate:
[15:16:11] <javabot> ricky_clarkson2, noclassdeffounderror is an error you might get when invoking java incorrectly; see http://lavender.cime.net/~ricky/java-errors/NoClassDefFoundError.html
[15:16:38] <ricky_clarkson2> saintiss, what are OCL constraints?
[15:17:01] <saintiss> ocl, object constraint language, basically a query and constraint language for specifying pre- and postconditions and invariants
[15:17:37] <ricky_clarkson2> Ok, without me learning this PoS, why might you need to know the parameter type of a generic collection?
[15:19:06] <saintiss> well, suppose you specify such a constraint in which you use the return type of a Java operation. the OCL engine will want to check the type correctness of the constraint, so it must know the return type of the method. if this is a collection, and the remainder of the constraint uses e.g. the first element of the collection, then the type of that element is relevant too
[15:19:40] <ricky_clarkson2> Does it reflect to find the return type?
[15:19:51] <saintiss> ricky_clarkson2, yes, it uses java reflection
[15:20:17] <ricky_clarkson2> Well it can see that the return type is List<Whatever>
[15:20:27] <ricky_clarkson2> And it can see that the return value is List<Whatever>.
[15:20:30] <ricky_clarkson2> So what's the issue?
[15:21:40] <saintiss> it can? apparently, if I have a declaration LinkedList<String> myCollection, and I do myCollection.getClass(), then the result is just LinkedList
[15:21:46] <saintiss> I can't find the <String> part
[15:22:06] <ricky_clarkson2> Can't you do that statically?
[15:22:13] <ricky_clarkson2> I.e., on source code.
[15:22:33] <saintiss> you mean parsing the source myself in the engine?
[15:22:39] <ricky_clarkson2> Yep.
[15:23:03] <saintiss> then it wouldn't work on java code for which the source isn't available
[15:23:08] <saintiss> that's not really acceptable
[15:23:19] <roots-> you dont need to know the element-type
[15:23:21] <ricky_clarkson2> Tough luck.
[15:23:36] <roots-> besides that java has an (almost) unified type system with a common root
[15:23:50] <roots-> in such a system you typically have collections of Objects and not specific types
[15:23:59] <roots-> generics is a misdesign as a side note
[15:24:15] <ricky_clarkson2> saintiss, you can check that the return type is a collection.  After all, that's all the Java runtime does.
[15:24:27] <saintiss> roots-, right, but then I can't do static type checking if I don't know element types
[15:24:37] <roots-> yes, if you need that
[15:24:40] <saintiss> ricky_clarkson2, exactly, but I could do that already in 1.4.2
[15:24:43] <ricky_clarkson2> saintiss, static type checking is better done statically (i.e., on source).
[15:24:49] <ricky_clarkson2> saintiss, yes.
[15:24:49] <roots-> it marginally prevents some bugs in some projects i suppose
[15:25:23] <ricky_clarkson2> saintiss, otherwise it's dynamic type checking, surely.
[15:25:29] <saintiss> ricky_clarkson2, well, it *is* being done on the source of OCL, but since it allows calling of java functions, that would imply I need the java source too, which is unfortunate in this case
[15:25:59] <saintiss> so yes, the java types need to be checked dynamically, to be able to check the OCL source statically
[15:26:26] <ricky_clarkson2> saintiss, 3 options. 1: ignore the parameter. 2: parse source. 3: Use/write collections that keep the type.
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[15:26:50] <ricky_clarkson2> saintiss, Here's an option.  Instead of List<String>, interface StringList extends List<String>, then use StringList everywhere.
[15:27:53] <saintiss> ricky_clarkson2, right, so in general those are systems where I do my own type bookkeeping... I guess that will indeed by the only solution... still, what's this method "getTypeParameters" for? I would have expected to do what I want, but apparently it does not
[15:28:22] <ricky_clarkson2> ~javadoc Class.getTypeParameters(*)
[15:28:23] <javabot> ricky_clarkson2, please see java.lang.Class.getTypeParameters(): http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Class.html#getTypeParameters()
[15:29:19] <saintiss> yes, I looked there, but I find the explanation unclear. Also, I even tried the method on some sample code. In the above, if I call myCollection.getClass().getTypeParameters() it seems I get one TypeVariable object with name "E"
[15:29:41] <ricky_clarkson2> saintiss, You can see at runtime that the return type for a method is, e.g., List<String>
[15:30:38] <saintiss> you can after all? but not with getClass() and getTypeParameters() so it seems
[15:30:42] <ricky_clarkson2> method.getReturnType().getTypeParameters() should give you one element, String.
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[15:30:53] <ricky_clarkson2> saintiss, objects don't know their parameter.
[15:30:59] <saintiss> now that's what I thought
[15:31:00] <ricky_clarkson2> methods know their signatures.
[15:31:15] <saintiss> hmm, but the class of an object should know its parameters, no?
[15:31:38] <ricky_clarkson2> How?  That's not stored at runtime.
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[15:32:10] <saintiss> hmm, but method signatures are? why the distinction?
[15:32:21] <ricky_clarkson2> Because method signatures don't change.
[15:32:35] <saintiss> and classes do?
[15:32:40] <ricky_clarkson2> Objects do.
[15:33:00] <saintiss> right, but I'm not asking the type parameters of an object
[15:33:05] <saintiss> what about something like this?
[15:33:13] <ricky_clarkson2> Yes you are.
[15:33:16] <saintiss> LinkedList<String>.class.getTypeParameters?
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[15:33:43] <saintiss> because object.getClass() is an object too?
[15:33:45] <ricky_clarkson2> The <String> is erased.
[15:34:38] <Goc> Is it possible that NoClassDefFoundError is thrown when trying to load a file with class.getResourceAsStream, or is it something else?
[15:34:56] <saintiss> apparently it doesn't even compile...
[15:35:39] <ricky_clarkson2> Probably a basic syntax fuckup.
[15:36:02] <saintiss>  LinkedList<String>.class.getTypeParameters() does not compile, while  LinkedList.class.getTypeParameters does...
[15:36:19] <saintiss> with () of course
[15:36:43] <ricky_clarkson2> That's a good thing.
[15:37:58] <ricky_clarkson2> Because LinkedList<String>.class cannot be any different to LinkedList.class, and so you should use the most explicit version.
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[15:39:02] <ricky_clarkson2> What's the error, btw?
[15:39:14] <saintiss> ic... the point I don't get is why a class should be any different from a return type in storing its parameters...
[15:39:25] <saintiss> illegal start of expression
[15:39:51] <ricky_clarkson2> The Class object is runtime.
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[15:41:49] <saintiss> ok, but if I fetch the return type of a Method, then I will get the exact same object than if I get the type of a variable of the same type, right?
[15:42:15] <ricky_clarkson2> Nope.
[15:42:25] <ricky_clarkson2> Because the return type of a Method isn't erased.
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[15:44:08] <saintiss> ok... I am trying this now, and it doesn't seem to work: I've got this method:
[15:44:17] <saintiss> public LinkedList<String> myMethod() { return null; }
[15:44:23] <saintiss> now I fetch it like this:
[15:44:32] <saintiss> Method m = A.class.getMethod("myMethod", new Class[0]);
[15:44:49] <saintiss> that works... but then I fetch the typeparameters of the returntype, and do this:
[15:45:11] <saintiss> System.out.println(t[i].getName());
[15:45:14] <saintiss> for each of them
[15:45:18] <saintiss> and all i get is:
[15:45:19] <saintiss> E
[15:45:28] <saintiss> where I should have gotten "String"
[15:47:19] <saintiss> ricky_clarkson2, this *is* what you meant by looking up the return type of a method, right?
[15:47:34] <ricky_clarkson2> Yeah, I'm a bit surprised.
[15:47:43] <ricky_clarkson2> I'll try it out myself sometime.
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[15:48:26] <ricky_clarkson2> Why would you get the name?
[15:48:29] <saintiss> ricky_clarkson2, ok... do you happen to know what this "E" means?
[15:48:40] * eidolon yawnsmornin.
[15:48:40] <saintiss> ricky_clarkson2, I wouldn't... just to see if I got String or not
[15:49:00] <roots-> saintiss: there is additional information in the classfiles concerning generics
[15:49:01] <ricky_clarkson2> E is the name given to it in the source of the LinkedList class.
[15:49:26] <roots-> in attributes
[15:49:32] <saintiss> right... so that's the parameter declaration name...
[15:49:35] <roots-> the bytecode is as if you had a simple old LInkedList though
[15:49:51] <saintiss> roots-, in attributes? secret ones?
[15:50:25] <ricky_clarkson2> Only secret if you don't read the specs, I expect. ;)
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[15:51:07] <saintiss> or some good tutorial? ;)
[15:52:00] <ricky_clarkson2> ~generics
[15:52:00] <javabot> ricky_clarkson2, generics is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/language/generics.html
[15:52:09] <saintiss> right, let's see... thanks
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[16:03:21] <akatadektos_> ricky_clarkson2: yes... It seems to be working effiently without overhead(not sure about that, but I think that Vector contains an array so it just returns some kind of pointer)
[16:03:45] <ricky_clarkson2> akatadektos_, I doubt it.
[16:04:09] <ricky_clarkson2> That would go against the contract of List.toArray().
[16:04:40] <roots-> indeed
[16:04:49] <roots-> and be hazardous like hell
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[16:05:44] <ricky_clarkson2> Unless it asynchronously copied or something. ;)
[16:05:57] <ricky_clarkson2> Nah, even then..
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[16:09:10] <akatadektos_> "(Changes to the returned list "write through" to the array.) " doesn't this mean that it contains that array?
[16:09:45] <cheeser> ArrayList is backed by an array, yes.
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[16:10:36] <lazy1> Anyone can give some help on using lint4j?
[16:10:43] <ricky_clarkson2> toArray doesn't return a list, what are you referring to?
[16:11:01] <akatadektos_> so, Arrays.asList() just creates a list with the specifed array as data
[16:11:35] <roots-> Vector is a List already
[16:11:45] <akatadektos_> javadocs Arrays.asList() public static <T> List<T> asList(T... a)
[16:12:16] <ricky_clarkson2> akatadektos_, yep, and whose size cannot change.
[16:12:48] <akatadektos_> but then new Vector(list) does the job
[16:13:15] <ricky_clarkson2> What job?
[16:13:25] <ricky_clarkson2> Oh, is this for the serialising stuff?
[16:13:30] <akatadektos_> yes
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[16:17:23] <saintiss> roots-, do you know any of these attributes by heart? the word "attribute" doesn't even occur in the tutorial
[16:17:40] <ricky_clarkson2> ~class file format
[16:17:40] <javabot> ricky_clarkson2, class file format is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/vmspec/2nd-edition/html/ClassFile.doc.html
[16:18:10] <ricky_clarkson2> saintiss, ^^
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[16:18:54] <saintiss> ricky_clarkson2, ok, I'll have a look, thx
[16:19:01] <akatadektos_> just to clarify things. The original problem was that when trying to deserialize a Vector (with objectInputStream.getObject() ) there wasn't a way to cast the Vector (e.g (Vector<MyClass>)object) without getting an "unchecked cast" by the compiler. Until 1.4 @SuppressWarnings("unchecked")  could be used. java 1.5 Does not allow that. forum.java.sun.com suggests that this is bug(to be voted I think)
[16:20:18] <ricky_clarkson2> Er, @SuppressWarnings is an annotation, which didn't EXIST until 1.5.
[16:21:07] <cheeser> and won't work until 1.6
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[16:21:15] <ricky_clarkson2> I believe it's fixed in 1.6.
[16:21:19] <akatadektos_> So, as a workaround I used Vactor.toArray and serialize the array. Then deserialize the array and use new Vector<mytype>(Arrays.toList()) to get my vector back
[16:21:28] <magowiz> i would like to know if it's necessary a dtd or a schema to parse a xml file and use the DOM tree. I've got some problem parsing a file , it doesn't give me any exception but it returns me a null document
[16:21:47] <cheeser> magowiz: no, it's not.
[16:21:53] <ricky_clarkson2> setValidating(false)
[16:22:01] <roots-> ant wouldnt exist if that as mandatory :>
[16:22:11] <roots-> at least no custom tags being integrated as they are now
[16:22:18] <magowiz> thanks ricky
[16:22:22] <roots-> s/tags/tasks/
[16:23:59] <sanj> Where should i place the hibernate properties file?
[16:25:06] <magowiz> I set Validating to false as suggested but it stills return me a null document : xmlversion:1.0 textcontent: null
[16:25:23] <ricky_clarkson2> Maybe there's no content. ;)
[16:25:59] <roots-> it still must be wellformed
[16:26:07] <follower> what event happens when you click on a tab in a jtabbedpane?
[16:26:23] <magowiz> it's wellformed and it has some content (i print it before parsing)
[16:26:47] <saintiss> fro the spec:
[16:26:51] <saintiss> Classfiles need to carry generic type information in a backwards compatible way. This is accomplished
[16:26:51] <saintiss> by introducing a new "Signature" attribute for classes, methods and fields.
[16:27:02] <magowiz> this is my xml file : <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-15"?>
[16:27:02] <magowiz> <elemento1>
[16:27:02] <magowiz> <elemento2></elemento2>
[16:27:02] <magowiz> </elemento1>
[16:27:04] <saintiss> However, getSignature() doesn't exist on class :(
[16:27:19] <roots-> saintiss: its a classfile attribute
[16:27:39] <roots-> reflection obviosuly uses it to a certain degree
[16:27:44] <saintiss> roots-, right... does that mean I have to use a special API to find out about it?
[16:28:01] <roots-> reflection i suppose
[16:28:15] <saintiss> roots-, right, which is why I would expect getTypeParameters(), which is in the reflection API, to work
[16:28:18] <saintiss> but it does not
[16:28:26] <roots-> that cannot work
[16:28:30] <roots-> anyhow those attributes are optional
[16:28:33] <roots-> dont rely on them
[16:28:46] <saintiss> why can it not worK?
[16:28:57] <ricky_clarkson2> roots-, What's it for then?
[16:29:07] <roots-> its misdesigned
[16:29:11] <roots-> from the ground-up
[16:29:27] <roots-> the idea of not generating dedicated code for primitive instances of generic class
[16:29:30] <roots-> +es
[16:29:46] <roots-> that would have been the only potential for it becoming a cool feature
[16:30:01] <saintiss> like in c++
[16:30:14] <shaym> some people playing with sqlexecutor here ?
[16:30:25] <roots-> in c++ you get (at least until recently) code instances each time
[16:30:33] <roots-> like in c# would have been reasonable
[16:30:44] <saintiss> still, the spec says the class attribute was specifically added for reflection to work
[16:30:59] <roots-> yeah you are on the right track it seems
[16:31:02] <roots-> sorry i dont know much about this
[16:31:27] <magowiz> ricky_clarkson2, it gives me no error when i parse it with xmllint so I think it's well formed and it isn't empty
[16:33:34] <saintiss> roots-, thanks anyway
[16:35:07] <BULLE> javabean propertysheets, are there any simple implementations around in some free form ? i have found one very wierd implementation at http://www.l2fprod.com/
[16:35:30] <BULLE> i know there are ones in netbeans and eclipse, but it seems i cant even get close to extract just that swing widget out of the source there
[16:36:56] <roots-> i have a propertygrid
[16:36:59] <roots-> it kicks some serious ass
[16:37:26] <roots-> not bean based, but one could cook up a BeanInfo based bridge to it
[16:37:31] <roots-> eg BeanInfo is cool anyhow
[16:37:33] <BULLE> i just want something i can feed a Bean and a BeanInfo class to, and if i clickz on the widget, the bean should be altered =)
[16:37:52] <roots-> you know the winforms property grid ?
[16:38:09] <roots-> add some sliding for the fold/unfold of categories and you got mine
[16:38:29] <BULLE> the one at l2fprod.com is a bit wierd, it doesnt propagate changes back to the bean and so on, but i guess i can write listener code for it, and it seems i must use its property editors so i cant use the support ones from the jdk
[16:39:13] <roots-> well i dont have that either
[16:39:19] <roots-> like i said, one could cook it up
[16:39:27] <roots-> it will be available as a module for my own swing RCP
[16:39:34] <BULLE> roots-: it looks something like this http://weblogs.asp.net/rmclaws/archive/2004/06/19/159992.aspx ?
[16:39:36] <roots-> extremly lightweight, most likely never released
[16:39:54] <roots-> no it looks exactly like it
[16:40:02] <BULLE> okies, it looks just like the l2f one then =)
[16:40:19] <roots-> even the new docking gui is mimicking visualstudio/#develop
[16:40:26] <BULLE> RCP ?
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[16:40:45] <roots-> swing application skeleton
[16:40:49] <BULLE> aha
[16:40:53] <roots-> where you can plugin modules, it comes with a bunch of modules
[16:40:55] <ricky_clarkson2> Is that legal, roots-?
[16:41:01] <roots-> ricky_clarkson2: yes
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[16:41:15] <roots-> you could say you mimick #develop
[16:41:23] <BULLE> ricky_clarkson2: what is legal ?
[16:41:57] <roots-> several pieces of software mimick it already anyhow
[16:42:00] <rizzo> Is there ever a reason I would need to manually add $JAVA_HOME/jre/lib/rt.jar to my CLASSPATH env var?
[16:42:19] <rizzo> Does java not automatically know to include that no matter what?
[16:42:20] <cheeser> no
[16:42:28] <cheeser> you shouldn't need to add it
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[16:42:53] <ricky_clarkson> rizzo: java -version
[16:42:57] <rizzo> cheeser: ok thanks.  One of my devs did it and just want to make sure he's an idiot
[16:43:04] <mohadib> heh'
[16:43:19] <rizzo> ricky_clarkson: ?  1.4.2_05
[16:43:24] <ricky_clarkson> rizzo: The only time to do it is when your java is not Java(tm), and even then it's dubious.
[16:43:40] <rizzo> Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.4.2_05-b04)
[16:43:48] <ricky_clarkson> Yada yada.
[16:43:57] <rizzo> lobster bisque
[16:44:03] <rizzo> alright thanks boyos
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[16:46:13] <roots-> how about an upgrade ?
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[16:48:37] <rizzo> hm I'm told that someone added rt.jar to CLASSPATH due to java calls not working from cron
[16:49:01] <mohadib> rizzo: you can make java work from cron
[16:49:01] <ricky_clarkson2> rizzo, that's a case for JAVA_HOME if anything, I think.
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[16:49:18] <rizzo> ricky_clarkson2: I do have JAVA_HOME set, perhaps that wasn't before
[16:49:23] <mohadib> i have had to use screen and bash -lc to make java run from cron iirc
[16:49:29] <rizzo> I'm going to test it and make sure
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[16:49:36] <ricky_clarkson2> rizzo, cron normally runs in a different environment to bash.
[16:49:47] <cheeser> i.e., they don't run in login shells.
[16:49:57] <ricky_clarkson2> Roit.
[16:50:01] <cheeser> so you have to source /etc/profile before your command
[16:50:17] <rizzo> right.  we actually run our apps (java and perl) through a "cronstart" wrapper sh script to pull in a lot of env stuff
[16:50:31] <rizzo> which we might not have been doing earlier
[16:52:12] <mohadib> /usr/bin/screen -d -m
[16:52:21] <mohadib> will run almost anything from cron ^
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[16:54:55] <rizzo> Looks like I can call java from cron without any wrapper .sh script
[16:55:03] <rizzo> outputting Date.toString() just fine
[16:55:37] <rizzo> which actually doesn't make sense to me
[16:55:52] <mohadib> rizzo: try to print to stderr from cron
[16:55:52] <rizzo> since I haven't sourced /etc/profile to even pick up JAVA_HOME
[16:56:06] <rizzo> mohadib: I'm running java -cp /root Test >> java.log 2>&1
[16:56:07] <Honk^away> i never set JAVA_HOME :p
[16:56:10] <ricky_clarkson2> You don't even need JAVA_HOME normally.
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[16:57:15] <rizzo> yeah /usr/bin/java is symlink back to JAVA_HOME/bin/java
[16:57:47] <rizzo> but bottom line is it will know where to find rt.jar and include it, so there is no reason to specify it in CLASSPATH
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[17:01:48] <Rembrando> Is anyone free to help me with designing a concurrent program?
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[17:02:17] <Rembrando> I have to come up with the design for a traffic light simulator
[17:02:51] <mohadib> heh
[17:02:53] <Rembrando> but I am having a bit of trouble working out which should be a monitor and which should be threads
[17:02:57] <eidolon> ~tell Rembrando about homework
[17:02:57] <javabot> Rembrando, Before asking homework questions, please review this document:  http://www.di.uniovi.es/~cernuda/noprog_ENG.html
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[17:03:16] <Rembrando> mohadib, im not even looking at that document, its not homework
[17:03:29] <Rembrando> you shouldnt assume so
[17:03:40] <mohadib> i didnt
[17:03:41] <eidolon> i have never heard of anyone writing a traffic light simulator that -wasn't- related to schoolwork.
[17:03:52] <mohadib> well , frankly , i did
[17:03:52] <Rembrando> its a textbook exercise
[17:03:58] <Honk^away> that's about the same
[17:03:59] <Rembrando> but as im not enrolled in a course
[17:04:04] <Rembrando> its not homework
[17:04:05] <Honk^away> homework, just not from school :]
[17:04:07] <eidolon> quite.
[17:04:22] <eidolon> an 'exercise' is for you to learn something.  just because you assigned it to yourself doesn't make it any different.
[17:04:27] <idpromnut> pr3d4t0r: ping
[17:04:36] <IMTheNachoMan> hey, anyone here ever wrote a custom jcomponent?
[17:04:44] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: sure
[17:04:49] <Rembrando> im not asking for someone to do it for me, im asking for assitance
[17:05:01] <Rembrando> and not that much assitance, just where im going wrong in my understanding
[17:05:02] <cyclone> eidolon: I figured most folks in irc don't help with homework because there is usually a TEACHER involved to assist.
[17:05:04] <mohadib> Rembrando: ask your question
[17:05:09] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib what was yours for?
[17:05:10] <cyclone> in Rembrando's case.. He doesn't have that available to him.
[17:05:13] <BULLE> IMTheNachoMan: depends on exactly what you mean with JComponent, i have extended normal JPanels quite often, so they draw what i want instead of just background
[17:05:13] <pr3d4t0r> idpromnut: Pong.
[17:05:23] <eidolon> cyclone: no, mostly its because every semester break #java gets inundated with "How do i write a hello, world program!??!"
[17:05:42] <IMTheNachoMan> ooo ooo, i wanna do that, how do you write a hello world program? :-P
[17:05:49] <cyclone> eidolon: yes.. I have seen that, but I figured the teacher thing as well.
[17:05:58] <IMTheNachoMan> let me explain what im trying to do
[17:06:01] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: i made a "TimeCell" , it cuold auto resize fonts to scale with the panel itself etc
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[17:06:01] <Rembrando> well, my understand is threads are what can be run concurrently, and you can have mutex with the synchronised keyword, ensuring that threads dont causeinterfereence and corruption...
[17:06:04] <eidolon> frankly, i've been a college course teacher.  i'd probably ask #java too :)
[17:06:35] <Rembrando> but im unsure exactly what a monitor is..., ive read several definitions but its just no clicking, wondering if someone could give me a simple definition in plain english
[17:06:37] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib could i see how you did it? or the code or something?
[17:06:44] <mohadib> sure , oine sec
[17:06:46] <eidolon> you know.  the whols adminclient thing with axis is really starting to tick me off.
[17:06:51] <BULLE> IMTheNachoMan: the Swing tutorial have a nice introduction on custom painting
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[17:07:11] <BULLE> IMTheNachoMan: its a good read, it explains how to do the custom painting, what classes to override and so on
[17:07:14] * eidolon was just doing his first custom paint stuff recently.  surprised me how fast it was.
[17:07:26] <Rembrando> so yeah...what is a monitor in the context of concurrent programming in plain english
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[17:07:36] <BULLE> eidolon: what platform ?
[17:08:00] <Drone> View mohadib's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8582
[17:08:02] <eidolon> BULLE: er, which?  i've been rambling for a while.
[17:08:05] <IMTheNachoMan> im writing a chat client, and for the chat are im haveing it as a jtable, reason is so that there are two distinct columns, one for the names, one for text, such that text wraps in its own column, i was told to use a custom jcomponent, i for the life of me can not figure out how, or what i need to do, i now how to write one, i just dont know what
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[17:08:07] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: ^^
[17:08:08] <ricky_clarkson2> Just a note, we don't have any no homework rules here.
[17:08:21] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib looking
[17:08:23] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: just a JTextPane
[17:08:29] <mohadib> er , i would
[17:08:41] <ricky_clarkson2> Well you don't/can't count.
[17:08:49] <Rembrando> anyone?
[17:09:07] <Honk^away> Rembrando: http://www.javaworld.com/isearch?qt=programming+java+threads&x=0&y=0&site=javaworld&ms=1&tid=1&st=1&rf=0 :)
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[17:09:26] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib ?
[17:09:33] <IMTheNachoMan> ~api
[17:09:33] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, api is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/index.html
[17:09:40] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: yes?
[17:09:41] <Rembrando> Honk^away, i already said ive looked up several texts, i have doug lees book next to me here
[17:09:51] <Rembrando> i was just looking for a plain english definition
[17:09:55] <Honk^away> did you read that one? ;)
[17:09:58] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib but what bout the distinct columns?
[17:10:10] <Rembrando> well, its a table of contents
[17:10:10] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: i dont understand
[17:10:18] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib cause i thought of that
[17:10:24] <Rembrando> which chapter should i go to?
[17:10:27] <Honk^away> "A monitor is a body of code guarded by a mutual-exclusion semaphore (or, to use a term coined at Digital Equipment Corp., a mutex)."
[17:10:29] <Honk^away> ..
[17:10:34] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: oh , a JTextPane
[17:10:35] <ricky_clarkson2> Rembrando, yeah, sometimes you need to read books, not just contents.
[17:10:39] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib i want there two bet two distinct columns, one for the nick name, one for the comment, how would i do that with a jtextpane
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[17:10:43] <Rembrando> hmmm
[17:10:47] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: why do you need two distinct columns?
[17:10:52] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib i dont need, i want
[17:10:56] <mohadib> why
[17:11:04] <IMTheNachoMan> i mean, heh i could do a jlable with html in it but
[17:11:10] <Honk^away> Rembrando: there's more in the article.. read it
[17:11:12] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib thats just how i want my chat client to look
[17:11:13] <Rembrando> ricky_clarkson, except when you only want less than a paragraph out of it
[17:11:24] <roots-> IMTheNachoMan: JLabels can do html too
[17:11:27] <Honk^away> Rembrando: you cannot understand monitors that easily
[17:11:29] <roots-> the default cell renderer is a JLabel
[17:11:32] <ricky_clarkson2> Rembrando, why are you restricted to reading a paragraph or less?
[17:11:53] <IMTheNachoMan> roots- but i was told for  jtable it wont work right with to many lines
[17:12:08] <Drone> View mohadib's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8583
[17:12:09] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: ^
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[17:12:24] <Rembrando> ricky_clarkson, because i only wanted clarification on what a monitor was
[17:12:28] <roots-> IMTheNachoMan: have you tried it ?
[17:12:29] <Rembrando> which has now changed to semaphore
[17:12:29] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib one sec
[17:12:33] <roots-> like do you have a testcase ?
[17:12:40] <Honk^away> Rembrando: no it didnt
[17:12:48] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: that code makes output like irssi
[17:12:54] <Honk^away> that was just a (way too short) quote out of that text
[17:12:54] <Rembrando> Honk^away, i get a list of about 10 links to different articles, which one did you use to find that definition
[17:12:59] <pok> hello all, in Swing how can i get a new JInternalFrame to receive focus? internalFrame.requestFocus() doesn't seem to do the job
[17:13:03] <Rembrando> Honk^away, for me it has
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[17:13:05] <Honk^away> Rembrando: start at the first one? ;)
[17:13:13] <Rembrando> i mean i now want clarification on semaphores
[17:13:19] <Honk^away> Rembrando: then you'll have a shitload of trouble writing correct programs
[17:13:51] <ricky_clarkson2> pok, focus is related to keys, e.g., JTextFields.  Afaik.  Try toFront().
[17:14:07] <pok> ricky_clarkson2: ah, thanks, gonna give it a try
[17:14:35] <Rembrando> well yeah, im still learning...of course
[17:14:42] <Honk^away> Rembrando: whatever, this will not work :) you cannot explain monitors in one sentence
[17:14:48] <Honk^away> or maybe not even in one paragraph
[17:14:59] <Honk^away> *waves*
[17:16:03] <ricky_clarkson2> *cuddles*
[17:16:04] <pok> ricky_clarkson2: thank you, that was what i was looking for
[17:16:18] <ricky_clarkson2> pok, cool.  I've never used JInternalFrame.
[17:16:21] <Rembrando> im sure a simplefied explanation can be given. which is what you provided before, so obviously it can.
[17:17:06] <ricky_clarkson2> Rembrando, the problem is that a simplified explanation might lack accuracy.
[17:17:26] <roots-> requestFocus will work
[17:17:29] <ricky_clarkson2> Rembrando, It's a block of code what you is not gettin' in widdout obtainin' a lock.
[17:17:39] <roots-> but it depends on what the receiver will do with it
[17:17:42] <roots-> he might just pass it on
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[17:18:13] <IMTheNachoMan> roots- tried what?
[17:18:55] <Rembrando> see ricky, thats what i meant, except without sattire
[17:18:56] <IMTheNachoMan> roots- like with a jtable?
[17:19:01] <roots-> yes like with jtable
[17:19:10] <ricky_clarkson2> Rembrando, except it's inaccurate.
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[17:19:12] <IMTheNachoMan> roots- no, i was told it would be a waste of time
[17:19:17] <Rembrando> so a block of code that you need a lock to enter...is that not what synchronized is?
[17:19:31] <ricky_clarkson2> Rembrando, Not quite.  You can't just obtain *any* lock.
[17:19:45] <ricky_clarkson2> It has to be a lock on a particular object (the object that is synchronized).
[17:19:55] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: do it however you want , less talk , more code ;)
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[17:20:22] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib heh, do you happen to have a screen shot of this working? or a full example code?
[17:20:30] <mohadib> sure
[17:21:00] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: http://www.javanub.net:8080/javanub/gc.jnlp
[17:21:11] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: let me make you an account , one sec
[17:21:37] <IMTheNachoMan> mohadib thank you
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[17:24:29] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: did you login?
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[17:28:30] <IMTheNachoMan> the other thing i was lookin for that the columns could be resized, and jtable would do that
[17:28:34] <IMTheNachoMan> im gonna hvae to make an example
[17:28:43] <IMTheNachoMan> and see how much jtable can handle
[17:29:23] <idpromnut> pr3d4t0r: mind if I pm you an offtopic Q?
[17:29:52] <pr3d4t0r> idpromnut: I'm rather busy but go ahead.  If it takes too long I'll have to disconnect.
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[17:30:58] <kgbudz> how do i set the zorder of awt components in java 1.4?
[17:31:22] <kgbudz> in 1.5, there is a function setcomponentzorder()
[17:31:43] <ricky_clarkson> Try not overlapping components.
[17:32:10] <kgbudz> this component is meant to overlap
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[17:32:17] <kgbudz> its a box which is drawn with the mouse
[17:32:23] <ricky_clarkson> It's the users I feel sorry for.
[17:32:36] <dmlloyd|work> that's your problem
[17:32:40] <dmlloyd|work> you should have no pity for those worms
[17:33:01] <ricky_clarkson> Yeah, but I might be a user.
[17:33:08] <ricky_clarkson> If I am, don't tell my parents.
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[17:33:39] <IMTheNachoMan> anyone know how many rows a jtable can handle?
[17:33:54] <IMTheNachoMan> i know slava told me not to, but the more i look into it and it just makese sense to use a jtable
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[17:34:19] <isat> does this channel cover JSP?
[17:34:26] <cheeser> sometimes.
[17:34:33] <isat> how about tomcat :P
[17:34:41] <roots-> kgbudz: the order in which they are added to the parent determines the z order
[17:34:46] <roots-> afaik for both lightweight and heavyweight
[17:35:02] <roots-> so it is just a matter of changing the components in order, it would collide with BorderLayout and so though
[17:35:08] <IMTheNachoMan> cept with like a jscrollpane
[17:35:15] <IMTheNachoMan> heavyweight will be on top of those i think
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[17:35:33] <roots-> yeah heavyweight and lightweight together will not work well
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[17:35:39] <mohadib> pita
[17:35:46] <roots-> heavyweight is always on top of the lightweight ones
[17:35:58] <roots-> if you only have lightweight you can also use JLayeredPane and/or JRootPane
[17:36:04] <IMTheNachoMan> and i dont even what the term heavyweight means
[17:36:16] <roots-> RootPane has almost no oeverhead and includes a layeredpane
[17:36:19] <mohadib> ~
[17:36:20] <javabot> mohadib, I have no idea what  is.
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[17:36:25] <ricky_clarkson> Heavyweight means native in this context.
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[17:36:54] <mohadib> not painted on the screen
[17:36:56] <kgbudz> what if you have 2 heavyweight components
[17:37:03] <IMTheNachoMan> then painted where?
[17:37:20] <kgbudz> like how do i even tell if this box im drawing is heavy weight or light weight
[17:37:28] <ricky_clarkson> Then you can start a gymnasium.
[17:37:52] <roots-> kgbudz: order in which they are kept in the components array of the parent
[17:38:00] <roots-> i think set zorder is just a convenience method here
[17:38:01] <mohadib> i have put heavyweights on a JFRame with CardLayout and have lightweights cover the heavweights :)
[17:38:02] <ricky_clarkson> kgbudz: How are you drawing it?
[17:38:18] <IMTheNachoMan> my apartment is cold, who left my windows open?
[17:38:26] <roots-> mohadib: what platform ?
[17:38:26] <dmlloyd|work> I did
[17:38:33] <mohadib> roots-: windows and linux
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[17:38:42] <roots-> strange indeed
[17:38:49] <mohadib> roots-: the heavyweight was a jdic browser
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[17:39:20] * ricky_clarkson left your front door open too.
[17:39:35] <kgbudz> im using 4 lightweight component lines
[17:39:39] <kgbudz> awt
[17:39:46] <kgbudz> to form a box
[17:39:51] <mohadib> awt is heavweight
[17:39:51] <ricky_clarkson> AWT components aren't lightweight.
[17:39:56] <ricky_clarkson> ~javadoc Line
[17:39:56] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, please see javax.sound.sampled.Line: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/javax/sound/sampled/Line.html
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[17:40:06] <ricky_clarkson> What do you mean by line?
[17:40:11] <kgbudz> it shows up ontop of all components, except for these subframes
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[17:40:20] <IMTheNachoMan> ahh
[17:40:24] <IMTheNachoMan> swing is heavyweight?
[17:40:28] <IMTheNachoMan> i mean lighweight?
[17:40:29] <ricky_clarkson> Nope.
[17:40:31] <ricky_clarkson> Yep.
[17:40:34] <mohadib> heh
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[17:40:53] <roots-> kgbudz: testcase :)
[17:40:54] <IMTheNachoMan> well shoot, i knew not to mix awt and swing
[17:40:56] <Erica> is jk here?
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[17:41:06] * cheeser looks around.
[17:41:08] <cheeser> nope.
[17:41:10] <Erica> does anyone here have any experience with MS Project?
[17:41:13] <kgbudz> there is no swing
[17:41:18] <cheeser> Erica: is there a java question there?
[17:41:19] <IMTheNachoMan> Erica, well a preecher a lawyer and a doctor walk into a bar...
[17:41:27] <sbk> Out of curiosity -- any recommendations for a java based swf (flash) library? I'm looking at javaswf2, which seems to have stopped development
[17:41:29] <kgbudz> these are  all actually custom components built ontop of awt...
[17:41:41] <roots-> built on top of Component ?
[17:41:45] <roots-> lightweight then
[17:41:47] * pr3d4t0r gnaws at idpromnut
[17:41:48] <kgbudz> yup
[17:41:48] <Erica> cheeser I'm evaluating project planners for my java project.
[17:41:51] <roots-> or build on top of Canvas ?
[17:41:58] * Erica eyes pr3d4t0r
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[17:42:08] <kgbudz> component
[17:42:18] <dmlloyd|work> oh bruce tate.  If only you realized that there's no such thing as non-bitter EJBs.
[17:42:46] <pr3d4t0r> Thanks :)
[17:42:52] <Erica> i'm using Planner and it's starting to get on my nerves
[17:43:04] <Erica> I have to set date for everything
[17:43:04] <dmlloyd|work> heh, yesterday you loved it
[17:43:12] <pr3d4t0r> I wrote the original in Python then realized it was three times bigger because Python is not well-suited for this stuff ;)
[17:43:21] <Erica> I really want to just set duration and let it figure out the d ates itself
[17:43:29] <Erica> for each task
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[17:43:44] <Erica> anyways.
[17:43:51] <dmlloyd|work> Erica, I've never heard of a project planner that does that stuff the way the user actually wants.
[17:44:05] <kgbudz> like all i need is the equivilant of setComponentZOrder() for java 1.4
[17:44:12] <Erica> dmlloyd|work :( true
[17:44:20] <kgbudz> there has to be some method...?
[17:44:27] <dmlloyd|work> I always go back to using a spreadsheet
[17:44:28] <Erica> dmlloyd|work so your guess is that msproject doesn't do it either?
[17:44:41] <dmlloyd|work> ms project is really, really hard to use
[17:45:00] <dmlloyd|work> we have people who have taken weeks of training that still have no clue
[17:45:08] <ricky_clarkson> I used it once, and um went back to a spreadsheet.
[17:45:09] <Sou|cutter> ms project is a new level of hell
[17:45:12] <sbk> "todo.txt" ;)
[17:45:21] <dmlloyd|work> yes
[17:45:25] <IMTheNachoMan> kgbudz i do see a setComponentZOrder
[17:45:28] <IMTheNachoMan> for 1.5
[17:45:45] <dmlloyd|work> for my next project, I'm going to say "just give me $500,000.  I'll let you know when we need more.  It'll be done sometime in the next 5 years."
[17:46:07] <lunk> ....the next day
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[17:46:12] <nico18> I'm experimenting with GraphicsDevice and GraphicsConfiguration. while I understand that I'm going to get >1 gd when there are >1 screens present, I don't understand what the meaning of the different gc objects is. their publicly accessible values are the same.
[17:46:14] <Erica> dmlloyd|work i wish it was that simple to get funding that way
[17:46:15] <lunk> hey, we need another $500k
[17:46:27] <nico18> and I'm getting four of them here for one screen (gd)
[17:46:41] <Erica> i'm not really experienced in planning project this way, i usually just do it
[17:46:50] <Erica> and get paid hourly
[17:47:00] <dmlloyd|work> are you a coder or a project manager?
[17:47:05] <Erica> coder
[17:47:08] <dmlloyd|work> because being both is a recipe for an ulcer, trust me
[17:47:15] <kgbudz> IMTheNachoMan, i know it exists for 1.5, i n am using 1.4
[17:47:23] <Erica> actually, they are forcing me to be both
[17:47:37] <dmlloyd|work> you have no idea of what you're in for
[17:47:48] <nico18> btw, this is on X
[17:48:02] <Erica> i love XFiles
[17:48:07] <Erica> funny tv show
[17:48:08] <nico18> :-)
[17:48:12] * nico18 too
[17:48:32] <IMTheNachoMan> !seen slava
[17:48:34] <Drone> slava (slava!n=slava at CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14 dot cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) was last seen in ##java on Wed 26 Oct 2005 04:36 GMT, saying 'read the java2d tutorial, IMTheNachoMan'.
[17:48:44] <mohadib> hah
[17:48:50] <mohadib> did you read it?
[17:48:52] <IMTheNachoMan> yeah
[17:49:05] <nico18> interesting stuff
[17:49:18] * nico18 's reading chapter 2.6
[17:49:27] <nico18> but I still don't get it
[17:49:34] <IMTheNachoMan> ~tutorial
[17:49:34] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, tutorial is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/
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[17:50:04] <Erica> when ppl don't get it what they really want is hand holding
[17:50:33] <Erica> because they are to lazy to take the time to understand
[17:50:35] <eidolon> mm, handholding.
[17:50:46] * follower holds Erica's hand
[17:50:46] <nico18> well, in this case some information is missing, imo
[17:50:57] <ricky_clarkson> As long as you don't confuse want and need.
[17:51:11] <clive_b0r> !javabot
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[17:52:05] <ricky_clarkson> clive_b0r: sup?
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[17:53:18] <clive_b0r> ricky_clarkson: how do i get a list of javabot commands? like ~tutorial
[17:53:53] <ricky_clarkson> ~factoids
[17:53:53] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, factoids is The list of my current factoids can be found at http://www.cheeseronline.org/~javabot/ .  Use 'help factoids' for more information.
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[17:56:04] <IMTheNachoMan> with graphics2d, and draw string, anyway that the text can be highlighted/selected and copied?
[17:56:08] <IMTheNachoMan> like with ctrl-c
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[17:56:48] <forsaken> is there a good way to strip any non-alphanumeric characters from a String?
[17:56:59] <ricky_clarkson> IMTheNachoMan: No.
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[17:57:45] <IMTheNachoMan> ricky_clarkson ok thanks
[17:57:56] <nico18> forsaken: good meaning efficient?
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[17:58:20] <forsaken> nico18, or easy and not efficient
[17:58:24] <nico18> forsaken: you could use a stringbuffer and append while looping through the char array of the stringn
[17:58:32] <ricky_clarkson> forsaken: iterate through a StringBuffer, removing characters.
[17:58:54] <ricky_clarkson> Either way works.
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[17:59:42] <forsaken> does java have good/decent regex support?
[17:59:58] <jcscoobyrs> Yes.
[18:00:25] <dmlloyd|work> "hydra's battled atop the wall, which came crashing dow"
[18:00:30] <forsaken> anything akin to perl's s///?
[18:00:31] <dmlloyd|work> I love that
[18:01:28] <Erica> crap i have to redo the dates on my gantt :(
[18:01:28] *** lobz has joined ##java
[18:01:42] <Erica> maybe i too should use excel
[18:01:59] <ricky_clarkson> forsaken: Yep.
[18:02:03] <ricky_clarkson> ~regex
[18:02:03] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, regex is REGular EXpression, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regex or http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/regex/Pattern.html . Perhaps "regex tutorial" might be useful.
[18:02:17] <Erica> ~gantt
[18:02:17] <javabot> Erica, I have no idea what gantt is.
[18:02:26] <Erica> ~pplanner
[18:02:29] <javabot> Erica, I have no idea what pplanner is.
[18:03:11] * pr3d4t0r eyes Erica
[18:03:40] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: It looks like you're looking for the #operationsresearch channel, not ##java.
[18:03:43] * ricky_clarkson plans a pee.
[18:04:15] <pr3d4t0r> Sou|cutter: Check out Ruby when you get a chance.
[18:04:25] <Erica> predator project planning sucks, i just want to code
[18:04:37] *** Kezzer has quit IRC
[18:05:00] <pr3d4t0r> Erica: Coding CPM routines is actually a lot of fun.  Using them is boring as hell.
[18:05:43] <Erica> I just want to code all day long
[18:05:51] <jcscoobyrs> You say that until you do it.
[18:06:15] <Erica> i mean it
[18:06:20] <Erica> seriously
[18:06:44] *** TirClass is now known as Tirlas
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[18:07:12] <jcscoobyrs> So do I.
[18:07:22] * eidolon does code all day long!
[18:07:23] * eidolon dances.
[18:07:24] <Erica> then you don't like programming
[18:07:26] <eidolon> at home!
[18:07:28] <eidolon> listening to music!
[18:07:30] <IMTheNachoMan> peace guys
[18:07:30] <eidolon> with the dog!
[18:07:34] <IMTheNachoMan> il talk to everyone later
[18:07:42] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: eidolon++
[18:07:43] <javabot> eidolon has a karma level of 6, pr3d4t0r
[18:07:47] * eidolon w00tz.
[18:07:51] <pr3d4t0r> Sou|cutter: Thanks.
[18:08:02] <Erica> javabot: Erica++
[18:08:03] <javabot> Changing one's own karma is not permitted.
[18:08:05] <javabot> erica has a karma level of 0, Erica
[18:08:18] <pr3d4t0r> FreemaniaX!
[18:08:21] <Erica> ouch
[18:08:31] <doc|work> Erica--
[18:08:32] <Sou|cutter> Erica: Why is that always the first thing people try? =P
[18:08:33] <Erica> is zero karma a bad thing?
[18:08:40] <doc|work> for trying to increase your own karma
[18:08:49] <doc|work> javabot: Erica--
[18:08:50] <javabot> erica has a karma level of -1, doc|work
[18:08:51] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: Erica--
[18:08:52] <javabot> erica has a karma level of -2, pr3d4t0r
[18:08:53] <IMTheNachoMan> he didnt know
[18:08:58] <follower> thats bad karma
[18:09:05] <Sou|cutter> heh
[18:09:07] <doc|work> javabot: karma doc|work
[18:09:07] <javabot> doc|work, you have a karma level of 7.
[18:09:12] <Sou|cutter> Erica: karma doesn't mean anything really
[18:09:12] <roots-> she i suppose
[18:09:13] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: karma pr3d4t0r
[18:09:13] <javabot> pr3d4t0r, you have a karma level of 130.
[18:09:13] <doc|work> wey!
[18:09:18] <follower> javabot: karma follower
[18:09:18] * doc|work has no idea where those came from
[18:09:19] <javabot> follower, you have a karma level of 2.
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[18:09:29] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: follower++
[18:09:29] <IMTheNachoMan> javabot: karma IMTheNachoMan
[18:09:30] <javabot> follower has a karma level of 3, pr3d4t0r
[18:09:32] <javabot> imthenachoman has a karma level of -1, IMTheNachoMan
[18:09:36] <Erica> i'm bored, project planning makes me sleepy
[18:09:37] <nmx> haha
[18:09:58] <IMTheNachoMan> im good at coding, bat with UI, this sucks
[18:10:13] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Your spelling and typing suck as well ;)
[18:10:19] <IMTheNachoMan> yeah
[18:10:28] <Erica> i luv ui programming
[18:10:30] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Hey hey
[18:10:33] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack!
[18:10:44] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Thanks for the memo, looks good (I got WSDL->Java, not the other way around, :-))
[18:10:45] * pr3d4t0r readies for a barrage of web services questions.
[18:10:54] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Good.
[18:10:56] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: See?
[18:11:00] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Nope, don't have any, other than the proper place to store JAR files
[18:11:05] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: It isn't just me saying it.
[18:11:08] <roots->  i would like to get my old motif job back
[18:11:12] <roots-> it was fun looking back
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[18:11:28] <roots-> at least i knew my way around with it and the programming env
[18:11:55] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: I have axis/libs/* where some libraries are placed, and everything works beautifully. Now I want to have the JARs that my service relies on, be available to the entire web server (ie, my web app JSP which is in ROOT/), so I moved them to TOMCAT_ROOT/lib but that did not seem to do the trick
[18:11:59] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: That guy summarized better than I could:  start coding with your interfaces, then the rest.
[18:12:12] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: I dunno.
[18:12:25] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Our Tomcat setup is a bit unorthodox.  I can't help you there.
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[18:13:04] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: When I need to figure out where something is I get to dig manually into the WEB-INF directory and dick with our M4 files, etc. before I unravel how things are set up.
[18:13:10] <nico18> has nobody ever seen many differenc graphicsconfigurations for a graphicsdevice under X?
[18:13:37] <sbk> speaking of motif, I for one, am glad not to be hacking X anymore :)
[18:13:45] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: sbk++
[18:13:56] <javabot> sbk has a karma level of 1, pr3d4t0r
[18:14:04] <pr3d4t0r> OKi kids, have a great day.
[18:14:06] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Yeah I'm trying to find a website that explains the Tomcat layout, and whether or not this lib folder would accomplish what I want
[18:14:26] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: You'll have to screw with WEB-INF at some point, I think.
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[18:14:32] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Looks like it does, I just had to re-start tomcat
[18:14:39] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Especially if you have .war files.
[18:14:45] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: No WAR files, yet
[18:14:48] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: ah.
[18:14:56] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: I need to put together a simple port of a PHP page to JSP, for a presentation I have to give tomorrow
[18:15:02] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: I avoid configuring Tomcat; Jetty is Da Shit for me anyway :)
[18:15:13] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: So I'm just trying to share my JAR that has all my API objects in it to both the axis service, and my jsp pages
[18:15:19] <pr3d4t0r> Anyway...
[18:15:25] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Good luck with the show tomorrow.
[18:15:28] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Cheers.
[18:15:39] * pr3d4t0r went to his office.
[18:15:59] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Thanks thanks, you played a major part in getting things up to speed
[18:17:33] * pr3d4t0r bows
[18:17:51] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Now its time to take over the world!
[18:17:54] * keyhack laughs an evil laugh
[18:18:06] <ricky_clarkson> Are you pinky, keyhack?
[18:18:10] <keyhack> lol
[18:18:13] <keyhack> I loved that cartoon
[18:18:15] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: I think so, Brain.  But what about the tutu that I was supposed to wear tonight?
[18:18:25] *** mohadib has quit IRC
[18:18:33] <cyclone> lol
[18:18:35] * pr3d4t0r really left
[18:18:35] *** ricflazz has quit IRC
[18:19:04] * ricky_clarkson really liberal.
[18:19:04] <ricky_clarkson> Oh, nm.
[18:20:06] <nmx> is there a way to load images from a file inside a jar? if i just use the ImageIcon constructor and give it a pathname, it won't go looking in the jar file
[18:20:24] <roots->  new ImageIcon(getClass().getResource("bla.gif"));
[18:20:31] <roots->  new ImageIcon(getClass().getResource("bla.gif")).getImage() for loading an image
[18:20:40] <nmx> aha, i see
[18:20:47] <IMTheNachoMan> anyone here use slava's jedit program?
[18:20:49] <roots-> it blocks until it is loaded, unlike Toolkit.getImage which returns before the image is loaded fully
[18:21:05] * nmx nods
[18:21:05] <ricky_clarkson> IMTheNachoMan: /I tried it out.
[18:21:09] <nmx> thanks roots-
[18:21:23] <ricky_clarkson> It lacks professionalism.
[18:21:37] <roots-> nmx: you can use dirs too and stuff
[18:21:40] <roots-> just all relative to the class
[18:21:57] <Cow_woC> what kind of idiot decided to use 0-based values for Month in Date and Calendar?!
[18:22:04] <IMTheNachoMan> ricky_clarkson what you mean by professionalism?
[18:22:06] <Cow_woC> (while keeping year and date 1-based)
[18:22:08] <nmx> roots-: excellent, that's just what i was looking for
[18:22:14] <Cow_woC> well day anyway
[18:22:20] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: The kind of idiot that knows there are other calendars than gregorian.
[18:22:31] <nmx> ricky_clarkson++
[18:22:35] <keyhack> I just have to research now how is the best way to code pages in JSP (in terms of having a template header/footer that does some navigation, and inserting content into the body)
[18:22:35] <nmx> ~ricky_clarkson++
[18:22:36] <javabot> ricky_clarkson has a karma level of 101, nmx
[18:22:51] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: so what? So Gregorian should be 1-based
[18:23:00] <ricky_clarkson> IMTheNachoMan: The windows installer associates jedit with every filetype, as a right-click option.
[18:23:07] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: if I set(month, 1) in gregorian it should be january
[18:23:15] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: or at least make the day 0-based too
[18:23:41] <ricky_clarkson> It's hardly a serious issue.
[18:23:47] <Cow_woC> and finally, since Gregorian is the most commonly-used calendar, Calendar should make its use the easiest
[18:23:53] <IMTheNachoMan> ricky_clarkson there was an optin to not have that
[18:24:03] <IMTheNachoMan> so narrow minded
[18:24:08] <IMTheNachoMan> ricky_clarkson not you
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[18:25:48] <ricky_clarkson> IMTheNachoMan: There is no option not to have that.
[18:25:59] <IMTheNachoMan> ricky_clarkson oh, i thoguth there was, forgive me then
[18:27:18] <IMTheNachoMan> i like it, simple, yet customizable
[18:27:24] <IMTheNachoMan> to each his own
[18:27:39] <IMTheNachoMan> hey might i inquire, what kinda music do people listen to here when they program?
[18:27:56] <forsaken> ~regex tutorial
[18:27:56] <javabot> forsaken, regex tutorial is the regular expressions tutorial at http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/extra/regex/index.html
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[18:28:46] <ricky_clarkson> IMTheNachoMan: salsa, other latin music, oasis, coldplay, gomez, etc.
[18:29:18] <IMTheNachoMan> ricky_clarkson what do you find makes you the most productive, and thx for the idea, havent heard oasis in a long time
[18:29:32] <ricky_clarkson> Coffee.
[18:29:40] <IMTheNachoMan> ricky_clarkson haha
[18:29:50] <IMTheNachoMan> i have noticed techno/trance/dance is good for me
[18:30:47] <IMTheNachoMan> for my senior project, i think i heard every con verd mods song workin on it, got an A too, highest grade in the class
[18:31:06] <IMTheNachoMan> made a pretty penny of it too
[18:31:29] <ricky_clarkson> Try playing music, e.g., on a piano.
[18:31:39] <IMTheNachoMan> im learning
[18:31:43] <IMTheNachoMan> got a keyboard gonna start up again
[18:31:52] <IMTheNachoMan> i used to take lessons, but my teacher kinda died in front of me, so...
[18:31:56] <dmlloyd|work> I listen to yes, zeppelin, pink floyd, stuff like that
[18:32:14] <roots-> i used to have a neighbor in my old home town bottrop, he made led zeppelin parties
[18:32:18] <roots-> nice parties indeed
[18:32:20] <IMTheNachoMan> ooo pink floyd, thx for the idea
[18:32:21] <dmlloyd|work> excellent
[18:32:37] <roots-> have you read the book "hammer of the gods" about the led's tour live ?
[18:32:50] <dmlloyd|work> no
[18:32:54] <IMTheNachoMan> i think i might have started an offtopic session, so i shall gracefully leave now :-P
[18:32:56] <IMTheNachoMan> peace guys
[18:33:10] <dmlloyd|work> my wife better show up with lunch soon
[18:33:18] <IMTheNachoMan> dmlloyd
[18:33:20] <dmlloyd|work> I'm friggin 'ungry
[18:33:21] <IMTheNachoMan> sorry
[18:34:29] <ricky_clarkson> IMTheNachoMan: I verified it, there is no option for the right-click thing.
[18:34:30] <roots-> dmlloyd|work: nice book
[18:34:49] <ricky_clarkson> IMTheNachoMan: Also, the compiler plugin, JCompiler, gives me a nullPointerException.
[18:35:35] <cheeser> javabot: forget ~debian
[18:35:36] <javabot> I forgot about ~debian, cheeser.
[18:37:02] <forsaken> is there a way to use a regex to replace characters in a string? (like strip out all characters that are \W)
[18:37:11] <BULLE> forsaken: oh yes
[18:37:14] <dmlloyd|work> yeah, look at the javadoc
[18:37:18] <BULLE> forsaken: just read the regexp javadocs
[18:37:21] <forsaken> i am
[18:37:24] <dmlloyd|work> ~be api barbie
[18:37:24] <javabot> Javadoc is *hard*!
[18:37:24] <forsaken> which section?
[18:38:04] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell forsaken about javadoc String.replaceAll(*)
[18:38:05] <javabot> forsaken, please see java.lang.String.replaceAll(java.lang.String, java.lang.String): http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/String.html#replaceAll(java.lang.String,%20java.lang.String)
[18:39:15] <forsaken> many thanks :)
[18:39:25] <forsaken> thats what i've been lookin for, just in the wrong place :x
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[18:39:57] <dmlloyd|work> can anyone explain to my satisfaction why people are so damn obsessed with providing all their services via HTTP?  I mean really... session-oriented stuff is waay better suited to persistent TCP connections
[18:40:29] <ricky_clarkson> dmlloyd|work: Server scalability and simplicity?
[18:40:39] <dmlloyd|work> simplicity?  you're kidding, right?
[18:41:36] <ricky_clarkson> Do I look like I'm kidding?
[18:42:13] <BULLE> dmlloyd|work: simplicity i would say aswell, and, firewalls
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[18:42:26] <nico18> see you
[18:42:34] <ricky_clarkson> Firewalls are a silly reason.
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[18:42:54] <dmlloyd|work> I don't see the simplicity
[18:42:56] <BULLE> ricky_clarkson: yes, definitively
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[18:43:15] <dmlloyd|work> you end up having to create the illusion of a persistent connection even when one doesn't exist
[18:43:19] <dmlloyd|work> it's just not a good fit
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[18:43:29] <ricky_clarkson> Illusions take up less resources
[18:44:02] <dmlloyd|work> it's emulation of a stream over a request-oriented protocol over a stream over a packet-oriented protocol
[18:44:08] <dmlloyd|work> it's just pointless extra layers
[18:44:40] <dmlloyd|work> and URL-to-services is as much of a square peg in a round hole as I've seen
[18:44:55] <ricky_clarkson> Suppose a user logs in, then reboots, then comes back, and wants to carry on.
[18:45:09] <ricky_clarkson> Or they're using wireless and don't want to log in every 10 seconds.
[18:45:31] <dmlloyd|work> suppose that's not even close to the problem domain at hand
[18:45:40] <dmlloyd|work> e.g. server a connects to server b.
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[18:45:59] <ricky_clarkson> Suppose 10,000 users have rather inactive sessions, and the server can only handle 5,000 simultaneous connetions.
[18:46:27] <dmlloyd|work> that's not my situation at all
[18:46:34] <ricky_clarkson> Ah, you mean web services.
[18:46:49] <dmlloyd|work> yeah, I'm not talking about html serving.
[18:47:05] <dmlloyd|work> I'm talking about client/server, that forgotten paradigm.
[18:47:31] <ricky_clarkson> Maybe it's for the same reasons.
[18:47:52] <dmlloyd|work> I'm just waiting for the day when RDBMSes stop using proprietary protocols, and switch to HTTP.  That's how I'll know that I'm in hell.
[18:48:10] <ricky_clarkson> You wouldn't care if the underlying network was fast enough.
[18:48:14] <dmlloyd|work> https://oracledb/select/x/from/dual
[18:48:15] <Drone> That URL gave the following error: java.net.UnknownHostException, oracledb
[18:48:50] <dmlloyd|work> I'm not a believer in compensating for shitty design by throwing cpu/disk/bandwitdth at it.
[18:48:54] <ricky_clarkson> Bevin: Request for less bugs: Drone should ignore URLs with no . in the hostname.
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[18:49:14] <ricky_clarkson> dmlloyd|work: You're in the wrong trade then.
[18:49:17] <dmlloyd|work> heh
[18:49:19] <dmlloyd|work> true enough.
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[18:50:04] <guigouz> I'm writing a daemon, and I want to use some of its methods remotelly. RMI is the way to go ? or should I implement my on interface using sockets ?
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[18:50:38] <dmlloyd|work> funny you should ask
[18:50:49] <ricky_clarkson> guigouz: Web services are another way, as is CORBA, as is JMS, as is sockets.
[18:50:57] <dmlloyd|work> RMI will get you up and running quickly, but there are certain headaches involved
[18:51:15] <guigouz> ricky_clarkson: web services are too much
[18:51:16] <dmlloyd|work> like if there's a firewall in between, or if you're using NAT, things get hairy fast.
[18:51:33] <guigouz> ricky_clarkson: any recommended way ? don't want to add too many stuff to the code.
[18:51:36] <dmlloyd|work> I'd go with sockets if you have a care for purity of design
[18:51:46] <ricky_clarkson> guigouz: Yes, I heard there's a 10%tax if you use wb services.
[18:52:09] <guigouz> ricky_clarkson: I do have to run tomcat if I want to use web services, don't I ?
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[18:52:17] <ricky_clarkson> No.
[18:52:23] <guigouz> oh
[18:52:42] <ricky_clarkson> I don't know the requirements, but I know Tomcat isn't required.
[18:53:09] <dmlloyd|work> interestingly, "web services" doesn't imply HTTP
[18:53:14] <BULLE> anyone here that have experience with writing BeanInfo classes, im a bit pussled, i have a Bean with a get/set Color option, that returns/sets java.awt.Color objects and i get a nice ColorChoose even though i dont specify a custom PropertyEditor
[18:53:16] <dmlloyd|work> by some definitions anyway
[18:53:50] <BULLE> is that because somewhere deep in the javabean code, Reflection is used to select a suitable PropertyEditor ? or am i missing something ?
[18:53:59] <ricky_clarkson> BULLE: Sounds likely.
[18:55:17] <ricky_clarkson> It's funny to hear English people speaking Spanish without making any attempt to pronounce things properly (BBC radio).
[18:55:29] <dmlloyd|work> heh
[18:56:20] <BULLE> ricky_clarkson: and all i want is a darn bean property that lets the user choose between a given set of alternatives, seems i must somehow do this with a BeanInfo class, but i cant figure out how :(
[18:56:21] <ricky_clarkson> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/genres/world/aod.shtml?radio3/andykershaw
[18:56:32] <ricky_clarkson> BULLE: Dunno.
[18:56:44] <ricky_clarkson> It's all Norwegian to me.
[18:56:49] <BULLE> ricky_clarkson: oh, why ?
[18:56:57] <BULLE> ricky_clarkson: norwegian is silly btw
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[18:57:11] <alesan> hi
[18:57:20] <ricky_clarkson> ciao
[18:57:50] <alesan> ciao ricky
[18:58:02] * BULLE only now nasty words in italian :(
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[18:59:03] <dmlloyd|work> hessian over SSL over TCP is the winner I think
[18:59:06] <ricky_clarkson> My housemate sent himself a postcard from America, and it arrived 8 days after.
[18:59:24] <alesan> BULLE, where are you from, sweden?
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[18:59:36] <BULLE> alesan: ye
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[19:00:41] <alesan> BULLE, I'd really like to come there sometimes. I hate hot weather
[19:01:05] <BULLE> alesan: he, then this is the place!
[19:01:12] <alesan> where exactly in sweden?
[19:01:19] <BULLE> alesan: right now its quite miserable though, its late fall, so its like 1 or 2 degrees, and raining
[19:01:23] <dmlloyd|work> right next to the north pole
[19:01:23] <BULLE> alesan: uppsala
[19:01:35] <dmlloyd|work> norway is on the other side of the north pole
[19:02:47] <solus> and finland?
[19:02:58] <dmlloyd|work> it's in there somewhere
[19:03:19] <dmlloyd|work> nothing but polar bears, penguins, eskimos, santa claus, etc
[19:03:32] <BULLE> dmlloyd|work: nah
[19:03:41] <BULLE> dmlloyd|work: its just pinetrees, pinetrees, more pinetrees and elks
[19:03:50] <dmlloyd|work> no, that's canada
[19:04:00] <dmlloyd|work> I'm in charge of stereotyping around here
[19:04:12] <BULLE> dmlloyd|work: canada is just mimicing sweden!
[19:04:24] <dmlloyd|work> that's the New World for ya
[19:04:36] <dmlloyd|work> nothing but a mimicry
[19:04:56] <dmlloyd|work> is it ironic that listening to "Awaken" makes me sleepy?
[19:05:15] <ricky_clarkson> Listen to "I'm Only Sleeping" by The Beatles or Suggs.
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[19:05:54] <ricky_clarkson> dmlloyd|work: Yes, you have achieved the impossible - American irony.
[19:06:01] <dmlloyd|work> heh
[19:06:06] <ricky_clarkson> Previously thought to be an oxymoron.
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[19:06:11] <dmlloyd|work> I think one or more of Yes are english though.
[19:06:18] <dmlloyd|work> that might invalidate that idea.
[19:06:37] <BULLE> ricky_clarkson: LOL
[19:10:24] <keyhack> Gar, for some reason every time I upload a changed .class file Axis keeps returning a 500 error until I stop/start Tomcat. Boo.
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[19:17:42] <[-D7-]> hello
[19:18:38] <[-D7-]> one question about Properties class , what is more expensive, in perfomance terms , load() or loadFromXML() ?
[19:19:02] <ernimril> [-D7-]: does it matter? (loadFromXML)
[19:19:42] <[-D7-]> ummm
[19:20:05] <[-D7-]> soory , I dont understand ..I've a poor english
[19:20:30] <ernimril> [-D7-]: why does it matter? you will not load properties very often.
[19:20:45] <[-D7-]> sure
[19:21:02] <ernimril> [-D7-]: loadFromXML is heavier, it will need to read more data, it will parse more and xml parsing is way more complex than inifile parsing
[19:21:16] <[-D7-]> so I think
[19:21:43] <[-D7-]> but tell me that in SunONE app. server works better with XML properties
[19:22:10] <IMTheNachoMan> does anyone know how to send a registerd irc user a memo or something, so they can get it when they are back online
[19:22:16] <[-D7-]> but I agree with you
[19:22:20] <cheeser> IMTheNachoMan: memoserv
[19:22:29] <ernimril> IMTheNachoMan: /msg memoserv help
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[19:24:10] <IMTheNachoMan> ernimril thx
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[19:25:14] <IMTheNachoMan> cheeser thanks
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[19:26:10] <bov> how do you pad null chars to a String?
[19:26:22] <forsaken> if I do a String[] ss = s.split(" ");, how do i know how many elements are in the array ss?
[19:26:59] <bov> forsaken: ss.length
[19:27:05] <cheeser> javabot: tel forsaken about arrays
[19:27:05] <javabot> Did you mean tell forsaken about arrays?
[19:27:10] <cheeser> bov: null chars?
[19:27:23] <cheeser> as in, \0 ?
[19:27:34] <bov> cheeser: padding to 14 bytes with null bytes to a String
[19:28:33] <ricky_clarkson> bov: Sounds pointless.
[19:28:49] <ricky_clarkson> What's a null byte?
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[19:29:03] <[-D7-]> use byte[]
[19:29:15] <gverig> bov: You are not trying to do some kind of cryptography, are you?
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[19:29:30] <ricky_clarkson> He's probably making a null-terminated string, a la C.
[19:29:36] <JeaK110> re4a||
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[19:29:51] * cheeser eyes JeaK110
[19:29:53] <gverig> ricky_clarkson: ? 14 little null-terminated strings?
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[19:30:13] <ricky_clarkson> gverig: 1.
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[19:30:42] <bov> gverig: yeah
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[19:31:00] <Jax> hello !
[19:31:04] <gverig> ricky_clarkson: "padding to 14 bytes with null bytes " - to me this sounds like 0 0 0 0 0 <stuff here>
[19:31:23] <gverig> bov: use byte[] or buffers or something
[19:31:28] <bov> k
[19:31:35] <Jax> what's the Java testing suite called again?
[19:31:38] <Jax> J something
[19:31:41] <ricky_clarkson> 14 bytes of String is only 7 characters.
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[19:31:46] <gverig> bov: Or rather use cryptography package.
[19:31:51] <gverig> Jax: JUnit?
[19:31:53] <Jax> ah yes
[19:31:53] <ricky_clarkson> Jax: JTiger, JUnit, testng.
[19:31:54] <Jax> and Ant
[19:31:54] <Jax> thx
[19:31:55] <forsaken> is a byte the same as a char?
[19:32:05] <ricky_clarkson> forsaken: No.
[19:32:06] <Peter> any hints on keyboard input over CLI? an alternative to KBInput :)
[19:32:12] <gverig> javabot: tell bov about JCE
[19:32:13] <javabot> bov, JCE is is the Java Cryptography Extension: http://java.sun.com/products/jce/
[19:32:17] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Peter about jcurses
[19:32:17] <javabot> Peter, jcurses is http://sourceforge.net/projects/javacurses/
[19:32:23] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Peter about swing
[19:32:24] <javabot> Peter, Swing is windowing toolkit for java.  Tutorials can be found at http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/
[19:32:50] <terence_> howto use printstream and printwriter together?
[19:33:00] <ricky_clarkson> terence_: Don't.
[19:33:00] <terence_> converrt vice versa?
[19:33:08] <terence_> any way..
[19:33:12] <terence_> i have to
[19:33:14] <idpromnut> ~charva
[19:33:14] <javabot> idpromnut, charva is A Java windowing toolkit for text terminals: http://www.pitman.co.za/projects/charva/
[19:33:19] <Jax> ~tell us about Junit
[19:33:20] <javabot> The user us is not on ##java
[19:33:28] <ricky_clarkson> terence_: Why?
[19:33:33] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Jax about telling yourself
[19:33:34] <javabot> Jax, I have no idea what telling yourself is.
[19:33:37] <idpromnut> Peter: look at charva.  That's one of ther better ones (read: functional)
[19:33:43] <Jax> ~tell Jax about junit
[19:33:43] <javabot> Jax, junit is a unit testing tool for java. See http://www.junit.org/
[19:33:45] <terence_> because its an interface
[19:34:06] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Jax about useless tell
[19:34:06] <javabot> Jax, when telling yourself something, just use ~something, not ~tell me about something or ~tell MyNick about something.  Save those precious fingers.  Mmm, Cadbury's Fingers.
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[19:34:11] <hashman> lo
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[19:34:26] <ricky_clarkson> ~telling yourself is <see>useless tell
[19:34:26] <javabot> Okay, ricky_clarkson.
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[19:35:37] <Static_-X> how do i change this line so that the while loop is run if not equal rather than equal      while (clientMessage.equalsIgnoreCase ("quit") ) {
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[19:37:31] <IMTheNachoMan> Static_-X while( !(clientMessage.equalsIgnoreCase("quit") ) ){}
[19:37:46] <IMTheNachoMan> ! <- not
[19:38:03] <IMTheNachoMan> == (equals) != (not equals)
[19:38:07] <Static_-X> im used to !=  in c
[19:38:15] <IMTheNachoMan> ah
[19:38:17] <ricky_clarkson> Static_-X: C has ! too.
[19:38:22] <Static_-X> cheers
[19:38:27] <ricky_clarkson> ~operators
[19:38:27] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, operators is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/operators.html
[19:38:55] <Blafasel> Hi there.. I currently try to access the values of a runtime-retention annotation.. But I've no idea how (relying on eclipse autocompletion - which gives no methods on my annotation - and on google so far).
[19:39:35] <Jax> "add junit.jar to the CLASSPATH. For example: set classpath=%classpath%;INSTALL_DIR\junit3\junit.jar"
[19:39:45] <Jax> how can i do that, so i don't have to type that each time the OS starts...
[19:40:01] <IMTheNachoMan> i think im gonna go bald pulling my hair trying to figure out what slava meant
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[19:41:30] <IMTheNachoMan> ~java
[19:41:30] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, java is just another vague acronym - see http://java.sun.com
[19:41:43] <cheeser> javabot: tell jax about classpath
[19:41:43] <javabot> jax, classpath is an environment variable, or command line option for Java that tells the Java compiler and runtime where certain libraries are. For more information, see http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/tooldocs/solaris/classpath.html
[19:41:45] <IMTheNachoMan> wait, its an acrynym?
[19:41:58] <IMTheNachoMan> acronym i mean, java is an acronym?
[19:42:05] <cheeser> no, it's not.
[19:42:09] <alden> hey im getting a load: CustomerApplet.class is not public or has no public constructor Error for my Applet: http://code.bulix.org/794  can anyone help ?
[19:42:14] <IMTheNachoMan> oh
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[19:42:56] <IMTheNachoMan> i still have not had time to figure out what it is or how to use junit
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[19:45:20] <Jax> IMTheNachoMan download it and try it
[19:45:23] <Jax> there's a readme with it
[19:45:26] <Jax> perhaps you should also try Ant..
[19:45:31] <IMTheNachoMan> yeah im reading it, but
[19:45:32] <alden> ive implemented a init() function but i still get not init error
[19:45:32] <Jax> it generates reports from tests in HTML format
[19:46:02] <IMTheNachoMan> i dont have time to try it, i was hopin there would be some online examples, something that would show me what it did, so i could see if i have any use for it
[19:46:27] <Terr1> Anyone know a good opensource java installer (can create java installations) ?
[19:47:17] <cyclone> Terr1: If you find one.. I am curious as well.
[19:47:36] <Terr1> There are alot of them.. just not sure what works well
[19:47:52] <cyclone> Like an Installer to install an app you wrote with Java?
[19:48:05] <alden> could someone please have a look at my init() function ?
[19:48:16] <ricky_clarkson> See jpackage, terr1.
[19:48:19] <alden> http://code.bulix.org/794
[19:48:30] <guigouz> Teckla: there's lauch4j.sf.net
[19:48:40] <guigouz> Terr1: launch4j.sf.net
[19:48:48] <guigouz> Terr1: not an installer, but may help you.
[19:49:11] <ricky_clarkson> alden: What's the error?
[19:49:25] <alden> hey im getting a load: CustomerApplet.class is not public or has no public constructor Error
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[19:50:25] <ricky_clarkson> Is your .class file newer than your .java file?
[19:50:54] <IMTheNachoMan> alden source code?
[19:50:57] <alden> ricky_clarkson: yeah
[19:51:05] <alden> IMTheNachoMan: http://code.bulix.org/794
[19:51:41] <ricky_clarkson> alden: shift-reload.
[19:52:11] * dmlloyd|work reloads his shotgun
[19:52:25] <alden> ricky_clarkson: still
[19:53:15] <ricky_clarkson> alden: javap CustomerApplet - check the output.
[19:54:38] <alden> ricky_clarkson: it gives this output: http://code.bulix.org/795
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[19:55:41] <ricky_clarkson> Tried appletviewer?
[19:56:04] * ricky_clarkson expects this is a browser cache issue.
[19:56:37] <ernimril> there is a browser cache and a java plugin cache... both may have to be emptied...
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[19:57:08] <NOthsouth> there is an easy way for check what is the O/S ?
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[19:57:20] <alden> ernimril: thanks THAT WORKED
[19:57:37] <alden> ricky_clarkson: it was the stupid browser cache
[19:57:50] <IMTheNachoMan> is there a way to code the applet so that it empties the java cache?
[19:57:53] <ernimril> alden: if you do applets then you want to use appletviewer while developing
[19:58:00] <ernimril> IMTheNachoMan: no...
[19:58:09] <IMTheNachoMan> ~appletviewer
[19:58:09] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, appletviewer is appletviewer is a command that runs Java applets outside the context of a web-browser. See http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/tooldocs/windows/appletviewer.html
[19:58:51] <NOthsouth> I need check if the O/S is windows our linux .. how can I do that?
[19:59:03] <IMTheNachoMan> NOthsouth in java?
[19:59:07] <guigouz> NOthsouth: System.getProperties()
[19:59:11] <guigouz> NOthsouth: check the javadoc.
[19:59:12] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell NOthsouth about system properties
[19:59:12] <javabot> NOthsouth, system properties is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/essential/system/properties.html
[19:59:15] <guigouz> for the System class.
[19:59:32] <Blafasel> One try again: Is there a way to retrieve the foo if I have a method annotated with @WhatEver("foo")?
[20:00:04] <IMTheNachoMan> what does the @ do i wonder
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[20:00:47] <Blafasel> Hm?
[20:00:53] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell IMTheNachoMan about annotations
[20:00:53] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, annotations is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/language/annotations.html
[20:00:59] <IMTheNachoMan> heh thx
[20:01:00] <Blafasel> Thanks ;)
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[20:01:23] <Blafasel> Is there javabot magic for my question as well?
[20:01:36] <NOthsouth> IMTheNachoMan, guigouz thx
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[20:01:54] <ricky_clarkson> Same page.
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[20:02:28] <Jax> IMTheNachoMan file:///D:/Programme/Java/Junit/junit3.8.1/doc/testinfected/testing.htm
[20:02:33] <Jax> eh
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[20:02:40] <Jax> that file contains screenshots though :D
[20:02:43] <Jax> from Junit
[20:02:45] <Blafasel> Not really.. There's not a single access to a annotation on that page, imho
[20:03:10] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Blafasel about javadoc Class
[20:03:10] <javabot> Blafasel, please see java.lang.Class: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Class.html
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[20:03:33] <ricky_clarkson> Oh, Method.,  You get the idea.
[20:03:52] <Blafasel> getAnnotations() - don't need that. I do have my annotation already.
[20:04:30] <Blafasel> But - relying on auto-complete from eclipse here - I cannot invoke anything on my MyOwnAnnotationInstance
[20:04:41] <Terr1> When I create a jar file containing my system, I want a config file to lay in the dir that the jarfile is in as well and make the jar file able to access til file, but what PATH should I use from within the jar? it cant seem to open the file using "../file"
[20:04:54] <Blafasel> And I've no idea how I can get to the public value() I declared in the annotation definition..
[20:04:55] <IMTheNachoMan> jax that would requre me to dl it, heh, i might do that later
[20:05:01] <IMTheNachoMan> still not understanding what annotations are for
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[20:06:10] <ricky_clarkson> IMTheNachoMan: They're just extra information.
[20:06:13] <ricky_clarkson> metadata if youlike.
[20:06:30] <Blafasel> IMTheNachoMan: It's a way to mark your code with meta-information, either only in the source/for the compilation/all up to the runtime environment. Several frameworks already use them, like hibernate for example
[20:07:02] <Blafasel> You can add additional information to your source and reference it later. Like the example for a simple test suite on the page ricky_clarkson gave you.
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[20:07:42] <Blafasel> But anyway, I _have_ to miss something very stupid here..
[20:07:59] <ricky_clarkson> Blafasel: My Internet access is very slow, I'm trying to answer.
[20:08:10] * ricky_clarkson remembers the local copies of javadocs.
[20:08:12] <Blafasel> Thanks a lot for your effort.
[20:09:29] <cyclone> I might have missed in the answer earlier. Was there an API for building a Java App Installer for all Platforms?
[20:10:14] <IMTheNachoMan> humm i think i get it
[20:10:17] <IMTheNachoMan> i have no use for it atm
[20:10:17] <IMTheNachoMan> but
[20:10:20] <IMTheNachoMan> i get the idea now
[20:10:41] <Blafasel> Nice ;)
[20:10:46] <gverig> cyclone: What kind of installer? There is WebStart...
[20:10:48] <ricky_clarkson> Blafasel: If your annotation is a particular kind, that has a vlalue, can't you use it.value?
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[20:11:41] <Blafasel> Not sure - eclipse won't allow me to.. ;) That's why I'm curious..
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[20:12:02] <Blafasel> I tried that since it seemed obvious, but..
[20:12:20] <ricky_clarkson> You might need to cast it to the annotation it is first.
[20:12:32] <ricky_clarkson> s/annotation/type/
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[20:12:40] <cyclone> gverig: Say I havea a jar file and I want a way for a user to automatically setup something like a Shortcut with a pretty Icon to the jar.
[20:12:55] <cyclone> which will call PATH_TO_JAVA/java -jar app.jar
[20:13:02] <gverig> cyclone: Check out WebStart
[20:13:07] <IMTheNachoMan> later guys
[20:13:09] <cyclone> gverig: Will do.. thanks.
[20:13:44] <ricky_clarkson> cyclone: In Windows, double-clicking a jar file will launch it appropriately, if Java is set up well.
[20:13:50] <gverig> cyclone: np, I did not do much ;)
[20:14:37] <ricky_clarkson> Blafasel: Still reading, but: http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-07-2004/jw-0719-tiger3.html
[20:14:37] <gverig> ricky_clarkson: he wants stuff like desktop icons, start menu items, etc. At least from what I understand :)
[20:14:40] <IMTheNachoMan> jeditorpane and jtextpane   can there be hidden text or hidden characters in them?
[20:15:10] <cyclone> ricky_clarkson: It is more for having a pretty Icon setup for it automatically.
[20:15:28] <cyclone> ricky_clarkson: Also possibly setup certain config files if needed.
[20:15:45] <cyclone> ricky_clarkson: Like how jEdit does it ;)
[20:15:48] <keyhack> Is there a way to make Tomcat not cause a 500 error when you replace a JAR file (and not restart Tomcat)?
[20:15:51] <Blafasel> ricky_clarkson: Did that, so it's an annotation of the right type already.. I just found out that .value() compiles, .value didn't work. And both weren't shown in the auto-complete, so I was uncertain..
[20:16:23] <cyclone> gverig: The webstart you speak of.. You talking about just the JWS?
[20:16:26] <gverig> Blafasel: From what I understand, Retension and Target annotations have that .value
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[20:16:37] <gverig> cyclone: yup
[20:16:49] <Blafasel> .value or .value()?
[20:16:49] <ricky_clarkson> ~jdic
[20:16:49] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, jdic is The JDesktop Integration Components. It aims to make Java applications properly fit into current desktop platforms without sacrificing platform independence. See https://jdic.dev.java.net/
[20:16:56] <ricky_clarkson> ~jpackage
[20:16:56] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, jpackage is http://www.jpackage.org/
[20:17:20] <ricky_clarkson> Blafasel: () I think.
[20:17:22] <cyclone> ricky_clarkson: Let me check that out. :) Thank you sir
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[20:18:52] <gverig> Blafasel: .value, no ()
[20:19:19] <gverig> Blafasel: it's in the javadoc. It returns ElementType[]
[20:19:23] <ricky_clarkson> Blafasel: value() ;)
[20:19:36] <ricky_clarkson> Blafasel: It's in ttp://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-07-2004/jw-0719-tiger3-p2.html
[20:19:47] <ricky_clarkson> gverig: URL?
[20:19:58] <Blafasel> ricky_clarkson: Thanks a whole lot. As I said above: I was absolutely unsure because of the missing completion support.. *blush*
[20:20:15] <gverig> ricky_clarkson: ... javadoc... Unless I am REALLY reading somehting wrong.
[20:20:29] <ricky_clarkson> gverig: javadoc: server not found
[20:20:37] <ricky_clarkson> Just give a URL.
[20:20:38] <Blafasel> ricky_clarkson: He's talking about the Retention and Target annotation
[20:20:48] <ricky_clarkson> ~javadoc Retention
[20:20:48] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, please see java.lang.annotation.Retention: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/annotation/Retention.html
[20:20:54] <Blafasel> Those have a value as well and maybe it's used differently
[20:20:54] <gverig> ricky_clarkson: :) Just JDK 5.0 javadoc
[20:21:18] <gverig> ricky_clarkson: Yup, that one.
[20:21:24] <IMTheNachoMan> how can i get the current content displayed in a jeditorpane/
[20:21:25] <ricky_clarkson> That says element, I don't think you access it like that though.
[20:21:25] <IMTheNachoMan> ?
[20:21:35] <ricky_clarkson> IMTheNachoMan: getText() or getDocument()
[20:22:15] <Blafasel> ricky_clarkson: The link you gave me is a really nice example for using AOP.. ;)
[20:22:18] <ricky_clarkson> I worked out why my Internet access seemed slow, it seems my music collection is popular with limewire windows.
[20:22:28] <Blafasel> This repeated SecurityBlanket.checkPermission(); ..
[20:23:10] <gverig> Blafasel: Are you building your own annotation or are you trying to use one of the existing stuff?
[20:23:15] <Blafasel> Own
[20:23:16] <IMTheNachoMan> im assuming there is no way of getting the text in a jeditorpane or jtextpane as html?
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[20:25:04] <Gilgamesh> hey guys
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[20:25:29] <Gilgamesh> can anyone tell me what funtion in java i could use to draw a pixel?
[20:25:36] <andrebarbosa> ei
[20:25:41] <Blafasel> I'm off to the TV, brb
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[20:25:51] <Gilgamesh> see ya Blafasel
[20:25:55] <Gilgamesh> hey andrebarbosa
[20:26:03] <ernimril> Gilgamesh: BufferedImage.setPixel (or perhaps it is just set)
[20:26:29] <Gilgamesh> hmmm
[20:26:54] <Gilgamesh> well i do not know much java... only basics, and i don't have any knowledge on image treatment
[20:27:01] <Gilgamesh> got any palce i can look for that?
[20:27:01] <ricky_clarkson> Gilgamesh: So learn.
[20:27:05] <ricky_clarkson> ~graphics
[20:27:05] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, graphics is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/2d
[20:27:27] <Gilgamesh> hmm
[20:27:47] <Gilgamesh> do you know if i can implement fractal algorithms with those functions, as easy as i could do with opengl?
[20:28:02] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Gilgamesh about jogl
[20:28:02] <javabot> Gilgamesh, jogl is a JNI binding of the OpenGL 3d Graphics library. Great for 3d games in Java. https://jogl.dev.java.net/
[20:28:06] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Gilgamesh about java3d
[20:28:06] <javabot> Gilgamesh, java3d is an API to add an extra dimension to your application, see http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/3D/ Also see JOGL for hardcore openGL coders.
[20:28:20] <Mazon> ~tell Gilgamesh about lwjgl
[20:28:20] <javabot> Gilgamesh, lwjgl is the Lightweight Java Game Library (lwjgl.org). [LWJGL] is a solution aimed directly at professional and amateur Java programmers alike to enable commercial quality games to be written in Java. It provides direct access to crossplatform libraries such as OpenGL and OpenAL, as well as controllers such as Gamepads,Steering wheel and Joysticks.
[20:28:28] <Mazon> :p
[20:28:40] <ernimril> Gilgamesh: here are a few fractals in java that I made lots of years ago: http://www.student.nada.kth.se/~d94-rol/fractals/
[20:29:06] <ricky_clarkson> I did a load of fractals in Pascal.
[20:29:13] <ernimril> hmmm... "Last change 1996..." :-)
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[20:30:46] <ricky_clarkson> ernimril: 3 years before I touched Java.
[20:31:08] <Gilgamesh> ernimril, hey, thanks a lot mate!
[20:31:08] <ricky_clarkson> In fact, just before I met C and C++ and Pascal properly.
[20:31:32] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: thoose were quite early things in my java development carreer
[20:32:06] <ernimril> Gilgamesh: note that that way works, but it is probably not the best way to do it anymore
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[20:32:59] <Gilgamesh> ernimril, hmmm i see... i am just trying to get into this fractal stuff... and i thought java would be a nice language to try to develop some of those algorithms
[20:33:19] <Gilgamesh> as you studied fractals, do you happen to have any cool text to point me on that subject too?
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[20:34:12] <sbk> See a bit more activity here -- apologies for a repeat question. Any suggestions for a java library to generate swf (flash) files? I've looked at javaswf2, but that doesn't seem to have any development for a while
[20:34:30] <cybereal> sbk: flash sucks
[20:34:32] <cybereal> :D
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[20:34:33] <teledat> hi folks
[20:34:35] * cybereal is not helpful
[20:34:37] <ernimril> Gilgamesh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractals
[20:34:53] <sbk> cybereal: indeed, indeed. Out of curiosity, what's the particular part of flash you dislike?
[20:34:54] <gverig> sbk: if you don't mind me asking, why do you need to generate swf files?
[20:35:17] <cybereal> sbk: the part where it's not an open format, and you're potentially violating patents if you reverse engineer it
[20:35:24] <cybereal> sbk: i.e. flash isn't remotely free
[20:35:24] <teledat> does anybody know how i can make a column in a jtable so that the user can only insert e.g. 10 chars per cell?
[20:35:34] <sbk> gverig: considering an alternative to laszlo and/or the macromedia based equivalent (forget its name now)
[20:35:35] <gverig> sbk: and I do agree with cybereal, it does suck. Unfortunately, there are no real alternatives at the moment.
[20:35:38] * cybereal wishes svg would take off
[20:35:42] <ernimril> teledat: use a cell editor
[20:35:59] <sbk> cybereal: ok
[20:36:02] <teledat> ernimril: ok, i'll read about that thank you :)
[20:36:33] <cybereal> sbk: if SVG was in more browsers (as it's a standard, it will be eventually like MathML) you can do the same things as flash because you can script the SVG documents with javascript
[20:36:45] <gverig> sbk: I don't think I understand your answer. What can you do generating a SWF that you can't do by loading SWFs or programming inside?
[20:36:51] <cybereal> sbk: dunno how easy that will be though, since most people using flash are used to using Macromedia's studio products
[20:36:59] <sbk> cybereal: yep, gotcha.
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[20:37:44] <sbk> gverig: basically, something like writing a java bytecode->flash converter, so can leverage experizse with java, instead of using some other tool
[20:37:46] <andrebarbosa> hey, anyone know if it's possible to force the browser to download the all applet .jar  instead of using class loader ?
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[20:38:33] <Gilgamesh> ernimril, thanks a lot mate! now i got tons of stuff to read and study! :D
[20:38:45] <Gilgamesh> just one more question
[20:38:56] <Gilgamesh> do you think java is the best choice for me to develop those fractals?
[20:38:57] <gverig> sbk: java bytecode -> flash ?! You better shoot yourself now. Flash is a very limited environment and there is not way you will be able to reliably and efficiently convert bytecode into SWF
[20:39:18] <cybereal> Gilgamesh: betcha you could do well using ocaml
[20:39:20] <sbk> gverig: I understand what you are telling me :)
[20:39:46] <sbk> gverig: "...something like..."
[20:40:03] <gverig> sbk: Besides, flash is highly not optimal as it is. Such conversion would create an unstable monstrosity... But's it's your time to waste ;)
[20:40:27] <sbk> flash seems pretty optimal for doing vector graphics, compared to java
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[20:41:15] <gverig> sbk: That pretty much was my question. Basically, when I saw several SWF generating tools (starting with PHP) and I have been wondering why people need it since Flash is a programmable technology itself. So I decided to ask you.
[20:42:08] <gverig> sbk: Flash is not optimal in any way shape or form. Java is simply not set up to do vector graphics (unless you count in stuff like JOGL)
[20:42:23] <guigouz> gverig: svg ?
[20:42:37] <sbk> gverig: ah, ok. I think the real answer here is that programmers are used to developing code in one particular 'language/method/tool/build-system/etc' wheras using Macromedia tools to generate flash content is mostly the domain of the content developers
[20:42:53] <Gilgamesh> cybereal, quhat is ocaml?
[20:42:56] <gverig> guigouz: never played with it. But again, there is only one player in web-based interactive content now, it is flash.
[20:43:24] <sbk> gverig: hence: "generate swf from language FOO" tools, I suspect
[20:43:26] <gverig> guigouz: that's the sad reality of the situation. Not because it is any good but because it was first and it happened.
[20:43:34] <cybereal> Gilgamesh: functional ML implementation with objects and imperative features
[20:43:36] <guigouz> gverig: depending on the app, you can force the user to install the svg plugin
[20:43:54] <guigouz> gverig: anyway, i think the flash plugin will soon support svg also, as adobe bought macromedia.
[20:43:55] <cybereal> Gilgamesh: it has a standard grphics output library too (not really suitable for games mind you but you could draw fractals with it
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[20:45:18] <gverig> sbk: OK. I don't agree this is a good reason since Flash has a very special setup with all the layers, frames and stuff and I don't think it is wise to write such conversion but I understand your reason.
[20:45:37] <cybereal> Gilgamesh: i recently did some math programming in java and the same thing in ocaml was orders of magnitude faster, also lisp might be good for the math but I don't know about graphics libraries there
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[20:46:02] <sbk> gverig: I'm not a flash enthusiast myself; mostly just trying to figure out if this is practical or not, at this point
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[20:46:28] <ernimril> cybereal: why was java so much slower?
[20:46:28] <sbk> gverig: also appreciate the thoughts -- that's useful to know
[20:46:29] <gverig> guigouz: You can force user to install .NET or Java too. Generally, there is only one player in interactive web content (well, there is director, but it's much less popular)
[20:46:51] <cybereal> ernimril: I don't know, it was running for hours so I don't think it lacked JIT compilation or anything
[20:47:19] <ernimril> cybereal: the math tests I have seen in java are _fast_ so it would be interesting to know
[20:47:33] <cybereal> ernimril: and it was a simple algorithm that was just repeated and I'm sure it wasn't growing in memory utilization or anything like that
[20:47:36] <gverig> sbk: Generally, I would recommend data-driven flash setups and native scripts. Unless you really know flash and really know its limitation and really know your solution will address these limitations.
[20:47:50] <cybereal> ernimril: well it was growing in memory utilization to some extent as it was generating large rational numbers without simplification
[20:47:50] <Blafasel> ricky_clarkson: Thanks a lot again.. All my annotation stuff works now.
[20:47:55] <gverig> sbk: (flash-native scripts)
[20:48:27] <sbk> gverig: *nod* ok -- your recommendation added to the pot'o'ideas :-)
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[20:50:22] <Gilgamesh> cybereal, cool! is that ocaml free?
[20:50:30] <cybereal> Gilgamesh: yes
[20:50:51] <cybereal> Gilgamesh: just google for ocaml you'll find it's the first, or one of the first responses
[20:50:55] <cybereal> inria.fr or something
[20:51:24] <Gilgamesh> checking it :)
[20:51:29] <Gilgamesh> caml.inria.fr =)
[20:51:31] <Gilgamesh> hehehe thanks :D
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[21:04:33] <cowbud> Is there a way to make javac report where exactly an unchecked value is in the generic error "Note: Book.java uses unchecked or unsafe operations."
[21:04:48] <ernimril> cowbud: yes
[21:05:36] <cowbud> ernimril: any hint on how to do that? ;)
[21:05:51] <ernimril> cowbud: javac -Xlint:unchecked ....
[21:06:17] <cowbud> hah wow
[21:06:19] <cowbud> sorry
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[21:06:29] <cowbud> I thought that ignored them
[21:06:40] * cowbud shoots himself
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[21:21:45] <Erica> jk are you here?
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[21:23:26] <cheeser> Erica: do you see his/her nick in the list?
[21:23:57] <pchapman> How can I define a List so that it can be assigned a List<subclassofDBObject> or List<DBObject> ?
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[21:24:38] <pchapman> List<? extends DBObject> doesn't work as DBObject does not extend DBObject.
[21:24:40] <Erica> cheeser he could have changed his nick
[21:24:52] <jwormy> Erica, call him
[21:26:03] <Blafasel> pchapman: super ?
[21:27:08] <pchapman> Blafasel, then it down't work for subclass 'cause subclass is not super of itself.
[21:27:13] <cybereal> pchapman: wouldn't you just do DBObject?
[21:27:40] <Erica> jwormy nah, he didn't give me his phone number because I am fat and ugly :(
[21:27:41] <Blafasel> cybereal: Generics don't like inheritance. You could only put DBObjects in that list then, afaik
[21:27:51] <cybereal> Blafasel: you sure?
[21:27:53] <jwormy> Erica, you left out annoying
[21:28:09] <pchapman> cybereal, Blafasel is correct as far as I can tell.
[21:28:28] <Blafasel> That's what I currently read, yes. Super is dumb, btw.. sry.
[21:28:29] <Erica> I also left out sweet lovable and kind but I don't see you complaining about that.
[21:29:10] <cheeser> that's why i'd give generics back to sun in exchange for named parameters
[21:29:49] <cybereal> Hm that is pretty dumb
[21:30:09] <Blafasel> Hmm..
[21:30:13] <cybereal> With OOP inheritence, a subclass of an object should work where that object's superclass works.  Otherwise wtf is the point?
[21:30:24] <Blafasel> pchapman: extends should be fine. But what exactly are you trying/doing?
[21:30:29] * pchapman shrugs
[21:31:05] <pchapman> Blafasel, I have an array that needs to hold DBObjects.  I have two code branches that might populate it.
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[21:31:12] <Blafasel> If you have a List<? extends whatever>, you cannot easily add something to it, since this wildcard is quite unspecified..
[21:31:29] <d03boy> pchapman, i was trying to figure out your same problem
[21:31:30] <pchapman> Blafasel, One branch makes a call that populates it with a list of specific subtypes.
[21:31:36] <d03boy> i believe I ended up doing something with the use of instanceof
[21:31:41] <ernimril> pchapman: what will you put in the list?
[21:31:47] <pchapman> Blafasel, Another branch just adds DBObjects of unknown subtype.
[21:32:04] <timing> Hello! im compiling a project and when it's done (without errors) i get 6 the same classes: ClassName$1.class etc.
[21:32:07] <timing> howcome?
[21:32:15] <ernimril> pchapman: List<DBObjects> ought to work well then?
[21:32:16] <d03boy> nevermind, ignore what I just said
[21:32:29] <cheeser> timing: those are anonymous inner classes
[21:32:32] <jwormy> timing, you have inner classes...
[21:32:35] <pchapman> ernimril, One would think, but my compiler doens't think so.
[21:32:36] <timing> oohw!
[21:32:47] <ernimril> pchapman: testcase in pastebin
[21:32:58] <timing> jwormy, cheeser: it looks ugly
[21:33:11] <jwormy> timing, yea inner classes do that to a person.
[21:33:13] <Blafasel> ernimril: List<something> only allows to add something, not descendant-of-something
[21:33:14] <pchapman> ernimril, Let me put it together.
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[21:33:42] <ernimril> Blafasel: wrong, a List<Object> you can add anything to
[21:33:56] <ernimril> Blafasel: but you will only get it as Object when you call get(...)
[21:34:05] <Blafasel> No
[21:34:09] <Blafasel> Try it
[21:34:23] <Blafasel> List<Object> allows only to store Objects - not everything
[21:34:26] <d03boy> what if you specify an Abstract class?
[21:34:36] <d03boy> damnit, ignore me again
[21:34:36] <ernimril> Blafasel: did you even try it? I have
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[21:35:29] <cybereal> Blafasel: I just made a test case and it works how I suggested
[21:35:49] <cybereal> I made class A, and B where B extends A; made an ArrayList<A> and added new B() to it twice.  No problems.
[21:36:17] <Terr1> When I create a jar file containing my system, I want a config file to lay in the dir that the jarfile is in as well and make the jar file able to access til file, but what PATH should I use from within the jar? it cant seem to open the file using "../file"
[21:36:19] <Blafasel> ernimril: Yes, we missunderstood each other, or better: I messed something up.. It was List<Object> = List<StringOrWhatever> that doesn't work
[21:36:27] <Blafasel> sry for the noise..
[21:37:39] <Blafasel> cybereal: Same, sry.. See above. If you have an ArrayList<A> and ArrayList<B> in your case, you cannot assign the latter to the first..
[21:37:51] <cybereal> Blafasel: right, and whyever would you want to?
[21:37:55] <timing> how do i run a class which is in a directory ?? java bin.app is nog working and bin/app too
[21:37:59] * cybereal wonders if whyever is a wrod
[21:38:01] <cybereal> word
[21:38:06] <timing> when im in the bin/ dir it works
[21:38:09] <cheeser> javabot: tell timing about get started
[21:38:09] <javabot> timing, get started is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/getStarted
[21:38:22] <timing> thanks :D
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[21:38:26] <Flice> hey
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[21:38:45] <jvoorhis> hi
[21:39:00] <Flice> is there a way to get the first map's entry in JSTL?
[21:39:41] <Blafasel> cybereal: In methods, for example.. foo(List<Object> bar) shouldn't work with a List<Object>..
[21:40:08] <jvoorhis> does anybody have a favorite JUnit + ant tutorial? :)
[21:40:42] <d03boy> JUnit is easy to the point of not needing a tutorial
[21:40:43] <cybereal> Blafasel: huh?
[21:40:50] <jvoorhis> that is comforting
[21:41:03] <Blafasel> cybereal: Before you say that I bullshit a second time: Use your example to try it?
[21:41:03] <jvoorhis> i've used RUnit with ruby
[21:41:13] <jvoorhis> so i'm not new to xUnit
[21:41:35] <jvoorhis> i'd like to learn how to use it with ant though, which i've never used before
[21:41:37] <cybereal> Blafasel: what you type dlooks like a typo; foo(List<Object> bar) should most definitel work with a List<Object>
[21:41:43] <d03boy> oh, I havent used ant
[21:42:01] <jvoorhis> ah, thank you though
[21:42:12] <Blafasel> At least this pdf from sun about generics says that Collection<Object> is not a supertype of Collection<subtype of Object>
[21:42:27] <cybereal> Blafasel: it's not
[21:42:27] <Blafasel> cybereal: So - no, it was intended like that.
[21:42:43] <Blafasel> You tried it?
[21:42:52] <cybereal> *sigh* hold on, gotta pull up the code again
[21:44:25] <cybereal> Blafasel: You sure you wrote that statement correctly? "cybereal: In methods, for example.. foo(List<Object> bar) shouldn't work with a List<Object>.."
[21:44:58] <jwormy> Erica, DO NOT pm people on this channel without asking their permission first.
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[21:45:22] <Erica> jwormy why is this place so difficult?
[21:45:27] <Erica> why do you hate me?
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[21:45:47] <jwormy> Erica, it's just not something you do in ##java...
[21:45:54] <jwormy> gosh.. women.. geeze..
[21:46:19] <Sou|cutter> must be an irc n00b
[21:46:46] <Blafasel> cybereal: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5/pdf/generics-tutorial.pdf, page 5, comment on void printCollection(Collection<Object> c) says, that Collection<Object> is _not_ a parent to any other collection. You cannot pass a Collection<subtype of Object>. The first was a typo, yes. Missed the missing "subtype of"
[21:47:00] <Blafasel> Gnaa.. I better shut up for today..
[21:47:08] <cybereal> Blafasel: I see
[21:47:39] <Blafasel> I wrote it right some lines above and didn't get which typo you were talking about.. *sigh* Sry.
[21:47:40] <cybereal> Blafasel: that's right because it's a parameterization not a type
[21:48:46] <Blafasel> Okay.. Messed that up with adding/assigning as I said above..
[21:48:49] <cybereal> You can pass in subtypes of the Object you defined in the parameterization but you can't substitute anothber parameterized type for that one in methods
[21:49:09] * cybereal struggles to type parameterized 10 times fast
[21:49:11] <pchapman> ernimril, http://rafb.net/paste/results/Z19aIq64.html
[21:49:41] <pchapman> ernimril, It's a simplistic example that doesn't show the need, but it does show the problem.
[21:50:19] <cybereal> Blafasel: the purpose served is different in the two cases you've brought up, and I think the restrictions make sense in both.  Any reason you brought it up?
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[21:51:56] <cybereal> poor confused soul, wants to make java turn into flash and uses emacs as an irc client
[21:52:04] <Blafasel> Not really.. I just thought about pchapmans problem and thought that you cannot add a subtype to a collection of a class, whereas it's only limited/restricted to assign a list of subtypes to a list of a class.. *ponders*
[21:52:20] <ernimril> pchapman: make the method: "List <DBObject>createDBObjectChildList"
[21:52:36] <ernimril> pchapman: and your examples work (well if you fix the toString: missing return)
[21:52:44] <cybereal> Blafasel: you can add a subtype to the class through .add, because type checking says subtype of Object works where Object is required
[21:52:54] <pchapman> ernimril, Yes, that would work; but in my app, I have other calls to the method that requires the List<subtype>
[21:53:22] <cybereal> Blafasel: you can't pass a parameterized type (List<A>) where one with another parameter is desired (regardless of inheritence) because that breaks the utility of type checking
[21:53:46] <Blafasel> Yep, I got it. As I said: I just messed those both cases up..
[21:53:52] <cybereal> cool :)
[21:54:25] <pchapman> ernimril, In my app, that call to get List<subtype> is external and called from several places.
[21:54:25] <ernimril> pchapman: ok so change myList: "private List<? extends DBObject>myList"
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[21:55:19] <pchapman> ernimril, That worked.  Hmmm.
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[21:55:53] <ernimril> pchapman: it will make it impossible to add objects to that list inside Test though
[21:56:55] <pchapman> ernimril, Ah.  I see.  That's what I was actually doing in my app...  Adding objects.  I'll make adjustments.
[22:01:07] * pchapman thinks that Sun needs to tweak generics in Java.
[22:04:06] <cybereal> Yes
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[22:05:26] * Sou|cutter shrugs
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[22:12:54] <det> Does java have the equivalent of select()
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[22:13:15] <ernimril> det: more or less, yes
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[22:14:08] <[TechGuy]> 'afternoon
[22:14:14] <det> Do you know where I may find more information?
[22:14:23] <ernimril> det: yes
[22:14:54] <ernimril> det: try reading the javadoc. index->S->select and you will find it
[22:14:59] <det> thanks
[22:15:04] <ernimril> ~tell det about nio
[22:15:04] <javabot> det, nio is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/nio/ and http://grexengine.com/sections/people/adam/nio/Converting_Tetris_from_io_to_NIO.html and http://gee.cs.oswego.edu/dl/cpjslides/nio.pdf
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[22:19:34] <AzRael23> I have a question about JavComm...: If I have an outputStream from a SerialClass and want to use outputStream.write class... What happens if I give the method an Integer??? I mean, it can only transmit 8 Bits over the serialPort.. what exactly does .write() submit???
[22:20:04] <AzRael23> ehh...outputStream from a serialPORT ... not serialClass I mean...
[22:20:30] <Honk^away> 4* 8 bits?
[22:20:58] <AzRael23> So it automatically sends ALL the information?
[22:21:32] <Honk^away> no :p
[22:21:38] <Honk^away> not if you use a simple outputstream
[22:21:40] <Honk^away> read the api
[22:22:06] <AzRael23> yeah, that's what I meant.. It says in the api that only the 8 LSB-Bits are sent right??
[22:22:23] <AzRael23> Mhh..is there a more 'advanced' outputstream then?
[22:22:23] <Honk^away> yes
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[22:22:33] <Honk^away> there's loads of output streams ;)
[22:22:36] <AzRael23> ;)
[22:22:50] <follower> pastebin?
[22:22:54] <follower> bah
[22:22:57] <AzRael23> ..and which one would be the right one in my case?
[22:23:01] <Honk^away> objectoutputstream if you want to transfer complete objects e.g. *g*
[22:23:11] <Honk^away> AzRael23: no clue, you didnt tell us what you're trying to do yet :)
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[22:23:23] <AzRael23> Mhh...ok, let's reformulate my question...
[22:23:38] <AzRael23> I have an array with 168 booleans... I want to transmit them to a microprocessor
[22:23:47] <AzRael23> over the serialPort...with JavaComm
[22:24:01] <Honk^away> then you'll have to find out what format the microprocessor expects
[22:24:13] <Honk^away> unless it's speaking java as well
[22:24:14] <lunk> 168 booleans?
[22:24:15] <AzRael23> That's up to my c-programming ;-)
[22:24:24] <AzRael23> no, it's speaking c...
[22:24:34] <AzRael23> And it expects 168 1's and 0's ..
[22:24:55] <AzRael23> Which makes 21 times 8 bits...
[22:24:57] <Honk^away> then you surely dont want anything but a simple outputstream
[22:25:14] <Honk^away> just use some bit-operations to create the data you need
[22:25:47] <AzRael23> Mhh...never done bit-operations in java..is it very different from c?
[22:26:05] <cheeser> javabot: tell AzRael23 about operators
[22:26:05] <javabot> AzRael23, operators is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/operators.html
[22:26:13] <AzRael23> nice, thanks...
[22:26:47] <cheeser> np
[22:27:05] <AzRael23> OK, then I have to create 21 bytes with bit-operators and send them, one at a time?!? Right?
[22:27:12] <AzRael23> There's no easier way?
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[22:27:41] <Honk^away> it's not exactly hard..
[22:27:56] <AzRael23> mhh...to me it seems hard....
[22:27:56] <Honk^away> and if the other side doesnt speak java, you'll have to make sure you send your data properly
[22:27:57] <AzRael23> ;)
[22:28:01] <Honk^away> it's easy
[22:28:12] <Honk^away> less than 10 lines of code prolly
[22:28:21] <Honk^away> you'll have to do the same in C btw
[22:28:30] <AzRael23> ok...
[22:28:39] <AzRael23> I guess I know what I've got to do then !
[22:28:40] <AzRael23> ;)
[22:28:43] <AzRael23> Thanks alot
[22:28:48] <Honk^away> unless you dont care about the amount of data sent ;)
[22:28:56] <Honk^away> then you could just wrap every boolean into one byte :]
[22:29:08] <AzRael23> Mhh... I guess that's to slowly then..
[22:29:19] <Honk^away> depends on your com port :p
[22:29:31] <BULLE> Honk^away: ouch
[22:29:39] <Honk^away> but 168 byte shouldnt take too long to transfer..  ;)
[22:29:41] <Honk^away> BULLE: hehe
[22:29:54] <AzRael23> hehe..
[22:30:19] <Honk^away> AzRael23: whatever, the proper way is using bit-arithmetics
[22:30:25] <AzRael23> The whole thing is for 168 LEDs... I have to send the information for each of the LED whether it's on or off...
[22:30:47] <AzRael23> And it should be so fast, that you don't see it flicker...;-)
[22:31:09] <Honk^away> what's the transfer rate of your com port? :P
[22:31:17] <AzRael23> Mhh..I set it to 9600...
[22:31:21] <AzRael23> Pretty slow....
[22:31:28] <Honk^away> isnt that like 9kb/s? ;)
[22:31:46] <AzRael23> Baud..... ;)
[22:31:53] <AzRael23> mhh...
[22:32:08] <AzRael23> Yeah, I guess it would still be fast enough...
[22:32:41] <AzRael23> It would shurely be much easier...one byte per boolean...
[22:32:45] <Honk^away> mhh
[22:32:55] <Honk^away> yeah, 9kbyte/s :]
[22:33:13] <AzRael23> hehe...and I need what...168 Bytes?
[22:33:26] <Honk^away> you should do it with 168 bit
[22:33:34] <AzRael23> You need damn good eyes to see that flicker...;-)
[22:33:36] <Honk^away> but it'd work with 168 bytes as well i'd say ;)
[22:33:40] <AzRael23> Anyway, I'll try the bits...right
[22:34:01] <Honk^away> it really isnt hard :)
[22:34:02] <Honk^away> good luck :p
[22:34:05] <AzRael23> thanks
[22:34:09] <AzRael23> BYE
[22:34:36] <Drone> View follower's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8588
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[22:34:57] <follower> that regex should match 5 different things, but its only catching 4
[22:35:03] <follower> there is a full test case there
[22:35:24] <ernimril> follower: you do not want to do html scraping with regexps
[22:36:03] <follower> how do i want to do it?
[22:36:13] <ernimril> follower: use a html parser
[22:36:39] <follower> any recommendations on one?
[22:36:53] <ernimril> ~tell follower about htmlparser
[22:36:53] <javabot> follower, htmlparser is http://htmlparser.sf.net - it parses HTML.
[22:37:11] <ernimril> I havent used that one, but many other seems to use it. I have my own, part of my web proxy.
[22:37:18] <ernimril> ~tell follower about rabbit
[22:37:18] <javabot> follower, rabbit is a web proxy used to speed up slow connections. For more information see: http://www.khelekore.org/rabbit/
[22:37:41] <follower> ive used rabbit before ;)
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[22:38:50] * cybereal notices ernimril's head grow two sizes
[22:39:03] <ernimril> cybereal: ?
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[22:39:27] <ernimril> cybereal: lots of people use my stuff, one more does not matter (much)
[22:39:40] <cybereal> ernimril: I see, well it was just a joke anyway :P
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[22:40:18] <MrPrimate> do you guys know if Java 1.4 has any support for a compressed audio format (mp3?)
[22:40:32] <littlezoper> google might ;)
[22:40:33] <ernimril> cybereal: it was interesting when I got a mail from one person that basically said something like "hello we want to let all our users use rabbit. Our modem pool is about 10 000 modems..."
[22:40:36] <jwormy> ~tell MrPrimate about jmf
[22:40:36] <javabot> MrPrimate, jmf is Java Media Framework.  You can find more information at:  http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/jmf/index.jsp
[22:40:51] <ernimril> cybereal: not easy for me to test such a setup...
[22:40:57] <Muss> is this not correct anymore in 5.0 ?  Scanner fileIn = Scanner.create(file);  ? for example? or is that still accurate
[22:41:00] <MrPrimate> but jmf is a seperate thing from the standard jre 1.4 ?
[22:41:09] <jwormy> MrPrimate, yes
[22:41:11] <MrPrimate> jwormy, i would require users to install jmf then ?
[22:41:12] <MrPrimate> hmm.
[22:41:18] <jwormy> MrPrimate, yes.
[22:42:04] <cybereal> ernimril: cool, small ISP eh?
[22:42:09] <cybereal> "small" :)
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[22:42:30] <ernimril> cybereal: nah, rater big actually (in that country)
[22:42:32] <Honk^away> Muss: "any more"?
[22:42:40] <Honk^away> scanner is new in 1.5 :P
[22:42:57] <ernimril> cybereal: I do not even know how many rack you need for the hardware
[22:43:06] <kaylee> Long.parseLong(String s) what kind of input is it expecting? a string that contains "1234" or "one"?
[22:43:17] <Honk^away> and it doesnt have a create method :]
[22:43:20] <ernimril> kaylee: "124455555"
[22:43:28] <Muss> well i'm reading it from my book
[22:43:29] <kaylee> ernimril: that's what I thought...thanks
[22:43:36] <Muss> 1.5
[22:43:42] <Muss> 'Java Design 1.5'
[22:43:44] <ernimril> kaylee: it will not handle english nor roman numerals
[22:43:45] <Honk^away> ~tell Muss about javadoc scanner
[22:43:45] <javabot> Muss, please see java.util.Scanner: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/Scanner.html
[22:43:55] <kaylee> ernimril: good to know, thanks
[22:43:58] <Muss> i didnt think it was correct either
[22:45:22] <Honk^away> well..
[22:45:29] <Honk^away> just use the constructor ;) that'll work
[22:46:41] <Muss> Scanner fileIn = new Scanner(file) ?
[22:47:20] <kaylee> I'm confused.... how could "foo.bar.blah" be passed through Long.parseLong and get a long back?
[22:47:50] <cybereal> ernimril: modem pools that big are usually virtual modems connected to T1's, and I've never heard of 10k in one facility, usually they would split them up on POPs, and in the USA the POPs are often owned by various third parties... but I suppose 10,000 is a rather large amount if you're thinking of a single ISP or a non-megaisp (i.e. AOL).  I used to work for an ISP that provided service to 300 virtual ISPs so we had tons of lines in our modem pool
[22:47:50] <cybereal> spread out on multiple third parties.
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[22:48:58] <Stork> i wouldn't have thought a scanner is the best way to read from a file
[22:49:14] <ernimril> cybereal: ok...
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[22:51:41] <MrPrimate> have you guys ever been to #java on efnet?  those people are jerks
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[22:51:52] <Muss> heh, yeah
[22:52:03] <keyhack> Does anyone know if its a requirement to restart Tomcat if you replace a JAR in the lib/ directory while it's still running? Seems like every time I deploy my web application I get a Server 500 error
[22:52:03] <ernimril> cybereal: I know who they are, but I can not read their web pages, they use a strange language...
[22:52:15] <Muss> Stork, it may not be the best, but i'm just in an intro course, just covering the basics at the moment and i'm a bit confused
[22:52:20] <cforce_> hi
[22:52:36] <ernimril> cybereal: but I guess that they go into the category of megaisp for that country
[22:52:53] <cforce_> in #eclipse none answers, so i would ask here -  is it possible ro let eclipse default only open one single debugging instance/session
[22:53:50] <Bevin> hi
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[22:55:20] <Muss> how are you getting more than 1 session?
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[22:55:39] <Muss> can i share a small piece of code with someone privately? just about reading a few #'s from a file
[22:55:54] <ernimril> Muss: pastebin... ?
[22:56:28] <Muss> hrm?
[22:56:46] <cybereal> ~tell Muss about pastebin
[22:56:46] <javabot> Muss, Paste your code, preferably a test case, any errors, and any other relevant information into the pastebin and tell us the URL: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin
[22:56:47] <Terr1> DriverManager.setLoginTimeout(10) <-- shouldnt this work when after opening the database connection like this: onn = DriverManager.getConnection("jdbc:mysql://".....); dosent seem to respond?
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[22:58:29] <cforce_> Muss:  you jsut click debug run conf button twice or more?
[22:59:01] <cforce_> Muss:  you will get for every debug session own jvm
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[22:59:58] <Drone> View Muss's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8590
[23:00:09] <Muss> okay
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[23:01:25] <Muss> now, besides blublah requiring an extension, am i reading from filein wrong? trying to make a string line of all the values
[23:01:25] <cheeser> talios: you wouldn't happen to be talios of the testng IDEA plug-in would you?
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[23:01:55] <Drone> View terence's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8591
[23:02:01] <talios> cheeser, yep - and the much unsupported "really should get my arse into gear" jira plugin
[23:02:08] <cforce_> Muss: see post
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[23:02:41] <cheeser> heh.  i thought that might be you.  8^)=
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[23:02:52] <Towny> Does anyone know how to make it so that when parsing an XML file it doesn't go off to the internet to get the DTD to validate the file?
[23:03:11] <cforce_> Muss: forgot -  BufferedReader inLogfile = null;
[23:03:13] <ernimril> Towny: .setValidating(false)
[23:03:19] <talios> cheeser, as long as you don't yell at me and tell me sucks ;p :)
[23:03:32] <Towny> I am using DocumentBuilderFactory and am calling setValidating(false), but it still goes off to the internet to validate the xml file
[23:03:33] <BULLE> ernimril: cant you just specify a file so the DTD is read from disk ?
[23:03:47] <Towny> I am using DocumentBuilderFactory and am calling setValidating(false), but it still goes off to the internet to validate the xml file
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[23:04:56] <cforce_> Towny:  Did you have any "http*" for dom in the code - i would search for that
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[23:06:18] <Muss> cforce, was that right though? my small snipet of code
[23:06:44] <Towny> cforce_: I am parsing the web.xml in my WAR file, so yes
[23:07:06] <Towny> Looking at the java docs it looks like I need to implement an EntityResolver?
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[23:07:34] <ernimril> Towny: what parser are you using? what jdk/jre?
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[23:07:35] <cforce_> Muss:  i have never used "Scanner" .. but i know that Buffered Reader /my code snipet works - just cut it down for your behave
[23:07:46] <cforce_> Towny:  SAX
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[23:07:55] <cforce_> jdk1 5.
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[23:08:17] <cheeser> talios: oh, no.  it's made my life much more bearable when working with testng.
[23:08:17] <Towny> SAX?
[23:08:22] <Towny> What about it?
[23:08:36] <cheeser> talios: i had started looking into writing a plugin when I saw the announcement about yours.
[23:08:39] <cheeser> 8^)=
[23:09:02] <talios> cheeser, good to hear :)  would you believe I wrote the plugin to force me to actually look at TestNG ;p  Probably not the best way to go about it, but hey :)
[23:09:31] <talios> Much love was given by Hani on the visual "oooo factor" I must say.
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[23:10:05] <cforce_> Towny:  http://www.saxproject.org/
[23:10:15] <cforce_> sax = simple xml parser
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[23:10:20] <cheeser> talios: that's why i wrote my testing article:  to force me to look at other testing frameworks
[23:10:30] <talios> cheeser, url?
[23:10:36] <amphiboid> cheeser: the one at tss?
[23:10:42] <cforce_> Towny:   aheem sorry .. simple api for xml parser
[23:10:59] <Towny> I know what it is, but what does it have to do with this?
[23:11:28] <Towny> If I set validation to false should it just ignore the external DTD?
[23:11:45] <cforce_> Towny:   "Does anyone know how to make it so that when parsing an XML file it doesn't go off to the internet to get the DTD to validate the file?"
[23:11:54] <cforce_> SAX . don't
[23:12:04] <cforce_> that is the only thinh i can say
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[23:13:28] <meatmanek> haha, CoderMalfunctionError....
[23:13:29] <Towny> SAX dont?
[23:13:51] <cforce_> Towny:   factory.setFeature( "http://xml.org/sax/features/validation",false); ?
[23:13:52] <Drone> That URL gave the following error code: 404 Not Found
[23:15:06] <cforce_> Towny:  paste your code
[23:15:08] <cheeser> amphiboid: yeah
[23:15:24] <Towny> I'm using dom though
[23:15:25] <Towny> okay
[23:16:27] <cheeser> talios: http://www.theserverside.com/articles/article.tss?l=TestFrameworkComparison
[23:16:27] <Drone> View Towny's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8592
[23:17:34] <talios> cheeser, ahh that one - I rememeber reading that when it was posted
[23:18:48] <cforce_> Towny:   did you check any default domwin settings?
[23:18:54] <cforce_> like xml stds?
[23:19:00] <Towny> don't know what that is
[23:19:12] <Terr1> DriverManager.setLoginTimeout(10) <-- shouldnt this work when after opening the database connection like this: onn = DriverManager.getConnection("jdbc:mysql://".....); Isent there a way to set the timeout somehow using mysql?
[23:23:18] <cforce_> Towny:  setNamespaceAware() = false?
[23:23:37] <cforce_> ahh is false as default
[23:23:40] <cforce_> hmm no idea
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[23:23:58] <cforce_> validating btw wy too
[23:24:50] <Muss> thanks for the heads up on the code cfoce, have a good one gents, midterm time =(
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[23:24:56] <tomaczec> hi
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[23:25:09] <cforce_> Towny:   is shema = null?
[23:25:09] <keyhack> Anyone here do in depth Java web development involving sharing JARs between JSP scripts and Axis web services? (Having issues with Tomcat throwing HTTP 500 errors when I seem to update a .class)
[23:26:25] <cforce_> urgs, no chance. i won't join that .. but this is hell
[23:26:31] <keyhack> When _everything_ were .class files in my axis/WEB-INF/classes directory, updating while the server was running was fine. (The <Context> tag is set to auto-reload), however, since I shifted libraries into the main Tomcat lib/ folder, things seem to have shit the bed
[23:27:55] <tomaczec> keyhack, well, i feel you should not place application specific classes in tomcat's lib/ dir.
[23:28:41] <tomaczec> keyhack, even, i guess that tomcat will not auto-load _those_ classes.
[23:28:47] <FaeLLe> OpenVPN is so annoying
[23:28:54] <FaeLLe> and long to config
[23:30:11] <RedGlow> two endpoints connected through sockets, I use a writeInt over an ObjectOutputStream of the output stream of a socket (Socket[addr=/127.0.0.1,port=40552,localport=4000]), and then I read it with a readObject from an ObjectInputStream over a socket (Socket[addr=localhost/127.0.0.1,port=4000,localport=40552]). send ends ok, but no data is received, no exception raised, simply hanging - any idea about this? is there some caveat with
[23:30:11] <RedGlow> Object{Output,Input}Stream a newbie like me can be missing?
[23:30:22] <tomaczec> keyhack, the more, you will run into classloader issues for sure, when doing such things.
[23:30:32] <RedGlow> [pardon, not readObject but readInt]
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[23:31:42] <GarethTheGreat> hi
[23:31:53] <keyhack> tomaczec: May I privmsg
[23:32:01] <GarethTheGreat> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/juix/juix/juix.java?rev=1.1.1.1&view=markup < can anyone take a look at the exec() function in stdlib class and figure out why clone() didn't work?
[23:32:05] <tomaczec> keyhack, sure
[23:32:30] <firelord> anyone know where concurrent-1.3.1.jar comes from?
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[23:34:02] <Erica> does java 1.5 have to modified to support foreign fonts?
[23:34:10] <dmlloyd|work> no
[23:34:14] <GarethTheGreat> anyone interested in looking at my code?
[23:34:22] <dmlloyd|work> java supports unicode, and any font in the fonts directory will work
[23:34:44] <dmlloyd|work> I'd be very surprised if the default fonts didn't have international characters in them
[23:34:44] <Erica> what is font.properties used for?
[23:34:47] <dmlloyd|work> if that's what you're asking
[23:34:52] <dmlloyd|work> ~fonts
[23:34:52] <javabot> information on fonts in java can be found at http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/intl/font.html
[23:35:10] <dmlloyd|work> check out that link
[23:35:57] <Erica> thanks
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[23:39:35] <cheeser> GarethTheGreat: that's really, really bad java.
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[23:40:37] <GarethTheGreat> the whole thing or just exec()?
[23:40:52] <GarethTheGreat> it is a work in progress, so quite a few dirty hacks i plan to remove
[23:41:18] <cheeser> the whole thing.
[23:41:24] <GarethTheGreat> what's so bad about it?
[23:41:30] <cheeser> everything's static.  you have 20 classes in one file.
[23:41:45] <cheeser> you initialize a String var to new String()
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[23:41:47] <GarethTheGreat> most things are static
[23:42:06] <GarethTheGreat> user processes etc aren't
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[23:42:16] <GarethTheGreat> the kernel class needs to be static to hold system-wide data
[23:42:29] <Talden> Ick
[23:42:50] <GarethTheGreat> as for having 20 classes in one file - i'll admit that needs cleaning up
[23:42:53] <jcscoobyrs> For a ResourceBundle to be found, where must the properties file be in the .jar?
[23:42:55] <GarethTheGreat> but like i said, work in progress
[23:43:14] <Talden> using new String() shouldn't be part of a work in progress though surely.
[23:43:35] <synic> jcscoobyrs: wherever.
[23:43:37] <Blafasel> I'm trying to throw an exception in an aspectj aspect.. But the compiler complains about an unhandled exception?
[23:43:38] <GarethTheGreat> what should i use to init strings?
[23:43:47] <Towny> cforce_: what is shema?
[23:43:48] <GarethTheGreat> just String bla = ""; ?
[23:44:14] <cheeser> String bla;
[23:44:21] <jcscoobyrs> synic: I have a start.properties in META-INF/perpetuum.commands/ location and it's not being found.
[23:44:22] <Talden> GarethTheGreat - You don't 'init' strings... If it must be non-null then "" would be better...
[23:44:24] <jcscoobyrs> I don't know what the deal is.
[23:44:54] <GarethTheGreat> do you have any idea why clone() didn't work in exec()?
[23:45:06] <Talden> GarethTheGreat - and I'd prefer a singleton instance with state that a lot of static state.
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[23:45:57] <follower> ernimril: this html parser seems like a hell of a lot more work
[23:46:17] <GarethTheGreat> i added implements cloneable to user_process, and added the public clone() method, got a "protected method" error when compiling
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[23:46:20] <synic> jcscoobyrs: if it was in the package "translations", you'd refer to it like this:  ResourceBundle.getBundle("translations.SomeBundle", Locale.getDefault());
[23:46:38] <jcscoobyrs> Okay...I'll try a similar approach.
[23:47:09] <jcscoobyrs> Won't I run into issues with the folder named "perpetuum.commands"?
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[23:47:56] <synic> hrmm, I dunno
[23:48:06] <synic> probably
[23:48:16] <jcscoobyrs> Damn.
[23:52:13] <jcscoobyrs> javabot: synic++
[23:52:13] <javabot> synic has a karma level of 1, jcscoobyrs
[23:52:16] <jcscoobyrs> Thanks for the help.
[23:52:23] <synic> np
[23:52:32] <jcscoobyrs> Using the . separator worked after removing the dumb folder name.
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[23:55:56] <Stork> can anyone show me some decent java resources? eg, stuff for beginners. i'm trying to get some friends interested in it and i'm preparing a list of useful sites
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[23:56:48] <synic> Stork: honestly, the best tutorials I've found are on sun.com
[23:56:57] <Stork> alright, cool
[23:57:02] <Stork> ~getting started
[23:57:02] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'get started' might be appropriate:
[23:57:04] <javabot> Stork, get started is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/getStarted
[23:57:09] <Stork> ~thanks
[23:57:09] <javabot> np
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