Switch to DuckDuckGo Search
   October 25, 2005  
< | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | >


NOTICE: This channel is no longer actively logged.

Toggle Join/Part | bottom
[00:01:08] *** cybereal has joined ##java

[00:01:36] <IseeIsee> ok

[00:01:48] <cybereal> hmph, I do not like ChatZilla

[00:02:04] <IseeIsee> as I told earlier I've 5 classes & all that, I've been able to write them to a file and they are also being read up back from the File

[00:02:44] <IseeIsee> but as soon as they are read from the File, I want the JFrames to be displayed and the listeners which are registered with it to start responding, but nothing happens, the object is just static

[00:03:11] *** cybereal has left ##java

[00:03:32] *** tezem has quit IRC

[00:03:33] *** keyhack has joined ##java

[00:03:43] <keyhack> What is the best way to determine the # of rows returned in a ResultSet object?

[00:03:57] <ernimril> keyhack: read all of them

[00:04:11] <keyhack> ernimril: And if I had to declare an array before hand?

[00:04:11] <ernimril> keyhack: you can not know in advance how many rows you will get

[00:04:21] <IseeIsee> ernimri: do you have any answer to my question ?

[00:04:35] *** bushwakko has joined ##java

[00:04:42] <ernimril> IseeIsee: I do not know what your question is

[00:04:52] <bushwakko> jdepend/xmlui/JDepend (Unsupported major.minor version 49.0)

[00:05:00] <bushwakko> I get this stuff while compiling some java stuff

[00:05:07] <bushwakko> what package is that in?

[00:05:17] <bushwakko> I tink I need to recompile that xmlui-thing

[00:05:24] <ernimril> bushwakko: you are using java/1.4 and try to run classes compiled for java/5

[00:05:29] <IseeIsee> ok I repeat

[00:05:36] <bushwakko> ernimril: yes, I know

[00:05:36] *** zdogde has quit IRC

[00:05:36] *** fuso has quit IRC

[00:05:42] <bushwakko> but I wanna go back to 1.4

[00:05:56] <bushwakko> how do I recompile it?

[00:06:18] <IseeIsee> I write all my Serializable classes which have swing components, util objects, threads in them, when I read them up I want them to start working as before, but the whole object is static

[00:06:27] <ernimril> bushwakko: same way as you compiled it before, only using the javac from your 1.4 sdk instead

[00:06:42] <IseeIsee> in simple words, its a game, I save the game and now when I load the game the game should continue where it was saved, get it ?

[00:06:50] <bushwakko> ernimril: I know, but I have no idea what package the xmlui is from?

[00:06:54] <bushwakko> I don't know what to compile

[00:07:03] <bushwakko> or to emerge, since im on gentoo

[00:07:38] *** mmr has joined ##java

[00:07:42] <ernimril> IseeIsee: why do you need to serialize the whole ui for that?

[00:07:52] *** Cow_woC has quit IRC

[00:08:22] <ernimril> IseeIsee: you only want to store some state, not a gui. Last time I tried that there were no listeners re-added on de-serialization... you have to fix it up yourself

[00:08:48] <IseeIsee> ya thats the problem, the listeners are'nt being added up

[00:09:04] <bushwakko> ernimril: you knowwhat xmlui is?

[00:09:05] *** mrsolo has quit IRC

[00:09:18] <bushwakko> If you know a filename, I could search for the packaga owning it

[00:09:20] <ernimril> IseeIsee: and they can not, since you can not serialize your keyboard and your mouse

[00:09:26] <bushwakko> but nothing called xmlui was ound

[00:09:41] <IseeIsee> hmmmmmmmmmmm

[00:09:53] <IseeIsee> ok thanks

[00:09:56] <IseeIsee> let me reduce what I'm writing

[00:10:15] <ernimril> IseeIsee: try to save as little as you can, save only state.

[00:10:19] *** kaylee has joined ##java

[00:10:36] *** Talden has joined ##java

[00:10:42] <ernimril> IseeIsee: try to imagine that you can use the same state in a console ui as in a swing ui

[00:10:53] *** kaylee has quit IRC

[00:11:01] <ernimril> IseeIsee: how the game state is displayed does not really matter

[00:12:28] <IseeIsee> ahan

[00:12:35] <IseeIsee> ok as is normal in Java Games

[00:12:41] <ricky_clarkson> Fark.

[00:12:44] <IseeIsee> the class which I've extended from JPanel

[00:12:55] <IseeIsee> I'm gonna write all that JPanel classnow

[00:12:57] <IseeIsee> *class now

[00:13:11] <IseeIsee> all my listeners are outside this class

[00:13:23] *** everwicked has joined ##java

[00:13:28] <everwicked> hello everyone

[00:13:33] <ricky_clarkson> Personally I don't subclass JPanel because I don't need to override any of its methods.

[00:13:38] <Clackwell> all your listeners are belong to us

[00:14:09] <everwicked> I am using webwork and I wanted to "carry" the referrer url along a path and eventually redirect the user there - any ideas how that's possible?

[00:14:28] *** fuso has joined ##java

[00:17:08] <Stork> i'm looking for some advice on my idea :\

[00:17:36] <everwicked> doesn't everyone?

[00:17:42] <Stork> probably

[00:17:47] <Stork> but i'm special, so they tell me

[00:17:51] *** djib has quit IRC

[00:18:14] <Stork> i'm trying to make an EncryptedOutput/InputStream in my crypto package

[00:18:40] <Stork> is this a good idea?

[00:18:50] <Clackwell> Stork: no

[00:18:55] <Stork> why not :(

[00:19:06] <keyhack> is Vector.copyInto() a costly operation?

[00:19:07] <Clackwell> Stork: because you seem to have no arguments for it.

[00:19:15] <Stork> well

[00:19:25] <Clackwell> keyhack: you are using Vector? why?

[00:19:30] <Stork> methinks it'd be useful for encrypting i/o streams :)

[00:19:34] <mohadib> cause they are cool Clackwell

[00:19:44] <mohadib> vector sounds much cooler than ArrayList

[00:19:47] *** efuzzyone has joined ##java

[00:19:49] <Stork> it's true, vectors are cool

[00:19:51] <Clackwell> mohadib: oh yeah, i forgot that

[00:19:54] <mohadib> ;)

[00:19:59] <Stork> i used to use arraylists, then i got cool...

[00:20:03] <mohadib> lol

[00:20:05] <keyhack> Clackwell: Because I need to loop through rows, adding Object forms of them into an array, and I cannot pre-determine how many rows I will have

[00:20:07] <mohadib> javabot: Stork++

[00:20:08] <javabot> stork has a karma level of 3, mohadib

[00:20:15] <Stork> :)

[00:20:23] <mohadib> ~tell keyhack about collections

[00:20:23] <javabot> keyhack, collections is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/collections

[00:20:27] <Clackwell> keyhack: copying references doesn't sound so costly per se.

[00:20:42] <keyhack> mohadib: Did you pay attention to what I had wrote?

[00:20:46] <mohadib> i did

[00:20:52] <efuzzyone> my java program is messing up line endings, how do I make it behave itself?

[00:21:11] <mohadib> keyhack: i still dont see why that reqiures a vector

[00:21:15] <Stork> efuzzyone: it's pretty hard to know without seeing the program :O

[00:21:24] <Stork> ~tell efuzzyone about pauste

[00:21:25] <javabot> efuzzyone, I have no idea what pauste is.

[00:21:27] <Stork> ~tell efuzzyone about paste

[00:21:27] <javabot> efuzzyone, Paste your code, preferably a test case, any errors, and any other relevant information into the pastebin and tell us the URL: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin

[00:21:28] <mohadib> do you need the collection to be synchronized?

[00:21:33] <Stork> whoops :(

[00:21:34] <mohadib> keyhack: ^

[00:21:42] <Clackwell> keyhack: why Vector, why not ArrayList or so?

[00:21:51] <Clackwell> that collection trail is a good idea.

[00:21:58] <mohadib> cause he doesnt know what an arraylist is

[00:22:06] <keyhack> Clackwell: mohadib: It needs to be eventually in a CustomObject[] form

[00:22:09] <mohadib> he thinks vector is the only growable collection

[00:22:14] <Clackwell> mohadib: that's soooo 1990ish

[00:22:16] <mohadib> keyhack: toArray()

[00:22:47] <mohadib> list.toArray(new ObjectThing[list.size()]);

[00:22:55] <efuzzyone> there is nothing wrong with the code, using println causes ^M to appear in emacs, but, \n is fine. Whereas in notepad \n shows up as a special character but println works fine.

[00:23:42] <Clackwell> efuzzyone: sounds like confusion about line endings on different platforms.

[00:24:35] <efuzzyone> yes, I am on windows xp. how do I make it use one type of line ending?

[00:24:37] <ernimril> efuzzyone: note that emacs only does that if you _mix_ line endings

[00:24:42] *** pchapman has quit IRC

[00:25:19] <efuzzyone> thats what is my problem, java is producing confused line endings. how do I make it consistent?

[00:25:35] <ernimril> efuzzyone: println on windows will print "\r\n", if you just insert a few random "\n" you will mess things up

[00:25:46] <Clackwell> efuzzyone: possibly related: http://www.mrx.net/c/introduction.html#linetermination

[00:25:50] <ernimril> efuzzyone: code in pastebin?

[00:26:08] <ernimril> efuzzyone: java is only doing what you ask it to

[00:26:28] <ernimril> efuzzyone: if you ask for mixed output java will give you that.

[00:26:35] <keyhack> mohadib: Why not ObjectArray[] newArray = (ObjectArray[])list.toArray();

[00:26:42] <efuzzyone> yes i do have few random '\n', i will substitute \r\n and see what happens.

[00:27:05] <efuzzyone> ernimril:, Clackwell: thanks

[00:27:07] <ernimril> efuzzyone: it will stop working on unix/linux systems...

[00:27:26] <ernimril> efuzzyone: use println if that is what you want

[00:27:54] <mohadib> keyhack: cause i dont want an array of objects that i then have to cast

[00:28:30] <Clackwell> efuzzyone: possibly related: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/essential/system/properties.html

[00:28:52] <Terr1> The default transaction level set on a database connection using JDBC, is that determided by Java or by the DBMS?

[00:28:57] <Clackwell> there is another way to get the default line separator from java at runtime, i do not recall how at the moment though.

[00:29:14] <Clackwell> Terr1: not by java

[00:29:23] <Clackwell> Terr1: dbms and/or jdbc driver.

[00:29:31] <ernimril> trying to get the line separator yourself is bound to give you problems...

[00:29:43] <Clackwell> different jdbc drivers/versions/implementations can behave differently.

[00:29:53] <Clackwell> ernimril: why is that?

[00:31:15] <Bevin> 'night

[00:31:21] <Clackwell> bye bevin

[00:31:25] <ernimril> Clackwell: there are two rules that are simple to follow: 1) allow no line separators, only use println, 2) allow all kinds of messed up output.  Trying to find the line separator and using that falls in neither category

[00:31:27] *** everwicked has quit IRC

[00:31:36] <ricky_clarkson> Hmm, page up and stuff stopped working in putty ;(

[00:31:41] <ernimril> Clackwell: so you will miss a few cases and get bad output

[00:31:53] <efuzzyone> ernimril: thanks, thats a good suggestion. I will use println everywhere.

[00:32:08] *** Kallistor has quit IRC

[00:32:30] <Clackwell> ernimril: hm. i would assume that println uses System.getProperty("line.separator") and thus so could i.

[00:32:37] <ernimril> efuzzyone: that is good as long as that is what you want. Sometimes you want a special encoding/format

[00:32:41] *** Bevin has quit IRC

[00:32:49] <Clackwell> ernimril: if i couldn't, how could i ever write a properly working stream or reader?

[00:33:39] <ernimril> Clackwell: of course there are cases where it is acceptable, but they are _very_ few. I have not found the need myself to ever use it yet...

[00:33:56] <Clackwell> ernimril: ok

[00:34:02] <ernimril> Clackwell: simple rules can make it into pre-commit :-)

[00:34:13] <ernimril> Clackwell: and then I have less code review to do

[00:34:24] <shingoki>  \n is good

[00:34:33] <mohadib> \r\n is bad?

[00:34:39] <mohadib> evil even?

[00:34:48] <ernimril> what about \r?

[00:34:56] <shingoki> that's just odd

[00:34:58] <ernimril> strange? up? down?

[00:34:59] <mohadib> it's just unruley

[00:35:41] <ernimril> "the good, the bad and the ugly" ... :-)

[00:36:23] <mohadib> sounds like the project im working on now

[00:36:29] *** keyhack has quit IRC

[00:37:03] <bushwakko> can anyone tell me what package I need to recompile to get the right version of xmlui ?

[00:37:15] <ernimril> for all of you youngsters: http://imdb.com/title/tt0060196/

[00:37:55] <mohadib> Clint Eastwood was best in Josey Wales ... or however you spell it

[00:38:32] <bushwakko> BUILD FAILED

[00:38:32] <bushwakko> java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: jdepend/xmlui/JDepend (Unsupported major.minor version 49.0)

[00:38:33] * mohadib give give the clock the evil eye

[00:38:39] *** rogue-kun{B} is now known as rogue-kun{B}|Awa

[00:38:42] <bushwakko> I get this on MOST java-stuff I try to build

[00:38:52] <ernimril> bushwakko: jdepend!

[00:38:57] *** makii has quit IRC

[00:39:02] <ernimril> bushwakko: or just use java/5

[00:39:12] <ernimril> bushwakko: any reason you want to stay in the dark ages?

[00:39:17] <bushwakko> jdepend gets the same error while compiling

[00:39:24] <bushwakko> gentoo doesn't like 1.5 I think ?

[00:39:28] *** ACDCJunior has joined ##java

[00:39:34] <mohadib> heh

[00:39:36] <bushwakko> I was told there to go back

[00:39:43] <ernimril> bushwakko: ##gentoo may be a good idea?

[00:39:49] <bushwakko> I tried :/

[00:39:53] <mohadib> gentoo = teh sux

[00:39:57] * mohadib hides

[00:40:03] <cheeser> mohadib = teh sux

[00:40:10] <mohadib> i knew that was coming

[00:40:10] <ernimril> bushwakko: just get java/5 from java.sun.com and install it yourself

[00:40:29] <bushwakko> It's in portage

[00:40:40] <cheeser> bushwakko: you need 1.4 for the system vm, but you can use 1.5 for the user vm

[00:40:43] <ernimril> bushwakko: yes and it seems to be working great for you

[00:40:45] * mohadib wishes he had time to blow so he could compile for his desktop that doesnt do much of shit... but i could get 1% faster!!!

[00:40:46] <cheeser> i do that one two different machines

[00:41:01] <cheeser> mohadib: have you ever used gentoo?

[00:41:01] <Clackwell> ernimril: ;) put it so nicely

[00:41:19] <bushwakko> cheeser: explain please

[00:41:31] <mohadib> cheeser: yes , i know you dont have to compile

[00:41:35] <mohadib> but most gentoo users do

[00:41:37] <cheeser> emerge both the 1.4 and the 1.5 VMs

[00:41:47] <cheeser> use java-config to set the system VM to 1.4

[00:41:57] <cheeser> then, as your user, set your VM to 1.5

[00:42:06] <ernimril> cheeser: what is the system vm? what programs need that?

[00:42:16] <bushwakko> cheeser: ok

[00:42:52] *** chippy has quit IRC

[00:43:01] <Clackwell> system vm = global default vm?

[00:43:54] <cheeser> ernimril: certain ebuilds don't like 1.5

[00:44:05] <cheeser> that's either bugs with those packages or the ebuild scripts themselves.

[00:44:07] <bushwakko> ok

[00:44:15] <bushwakko> well, I've had 1.5 for system-vm

[00:44:22] <cheeser> *most* things work with 1.5.  but not enough for axxo to pull the trigger it seems.

[00:44:33] <bushwakko> but I really need to get that Jdepend stuff working, to get my java-stuff back to 1.4

[00:44:35] <bushwakko> on the system-level

[00:45:26] * Clackwell waves his "self-generated problem" detector about the channel

[00:45:52] <Clackwell> <beep, beep>

[00:47:02] *** FreemaniaX has quit IRC

[00:47:09] <bushwakko> gotta love gentoo:

[00:47:13] <bushwakko> http://gentoo-wiki.com/Java_FAQ#Ok.2C_I_was_a_naughty_boy.2C_wanted_to_be_bleeding_edge_and_used_the_JDK_1.5._What_can_I_do_to_fix_my_system.3F

[00:47:15] <bushwakko> :D

[00:47:32] <Clackwell> wahaah ;)

[00:48:42] <Stork> hooray for my EncryptedFileOutputStream

[00:48:46] <vinse> lol

[00:49:00] <vinse> that's a great url

[00:49:06] <Stork> it is indeed

[00:49:36] <Clackwell> vinse: it read like "complicated stuff, complicated stuff, complicated stuff" to me.

[00:49:58] <Clackwell> i'll go without such fancy stuff, thanks very much. ;)

[00:50:42] <mohadib> ~hug cheeser

[00:50:43] * javabot snuggles up to cheeser and strokes cheeser's hair affectionately.

[00:50:52] * mohadib enveys javabot

[00:52:29] *** Kane_Hart has joined ##java

[00:52:42] <Kane_Hart> in eclipes is there a option for clean build?

[00:54:02] *** pavlicek has quit IRC

[00:54:13] <mohadib> Kane_Hart: clean project

[00:54:34] <Kane_Hart> wheres that hehe i don't see that

[00:54:35] <mohadib> it will recompile everyting

[00:54:52] <mohadib> i think under project or tools , i already shut eclipse down for the day

[00:55:02] <mohadib> and it takes like a flipping minutye to start

[00:55:02] <Kane_Hart> cleanup?

[00:55:12] <mohadib> i think that is it

[00:55:17] <mohadib> one sec ill fire it up

[00:55:26] <vinse> mohadib: i tried to use eclipse with a remote workspace on vpn this weekend

[00:55:32] <vinse> mohadib: what a joke that was :(

[00:55:35] <mohadib> lol

[00:55:54] <vinse> click on something, wait 4 minutes

[00:55:56] <ernimril> vinse: sometimes vi is a good alternative...

[00:55:58] <mohadib> i can use it via Xforward over ssh , but it has to be on the lan or it is not useable

[00:56:09] <Kane_Hart> all I could find is cleanup hehe

[00:56:12] <mohadib> project-> clean

[00:56:17] *** [TechGuy] has joined ##java

[00:56:32] *** ACDCJunior has quit IRC

[00:56:35] <[TechGuy]> yo ho

[00:56:37] <Kane_Hart> oh up there lol

[00:56:43] <elirips> can i set all values of an int-array to 0 without going through a loop?

[00:56:47] <Kane_Hart> I was right clicking my project hehe

[00:57:02] <ernimril> elirips: javadoc the Arrays class

[00:58:27] <elirips> ernimril: there are only methods to set an item to something new, not the whole array (?)

[00:59:19] <ernimril> elirips: seems you need to read the javadoc once more

[01:00:51] <elirips> ernimril: what method are you talking about?? all the setters methods in Array only affect single indexes?

[01:01:10] <vinse> ernimril: the more i use eclipse, the more vi seems like a better idea

[01:01:17] *** nater has quit IRC

[01:01:32] <vinse> for example, when typing the word takes less than autocompleting, why do you have autocomplete?

[01:01:43] <vinse> *takes less time than

[01:01:59] <[TechGuy]> you're implying that autocomplete is forced

[01:02:00] <ernimril> elirips: I did not say Array, I said Arrays

[01:02:28] <ernimril> vinse: I mostly use emacs... but I can manage with vi if I have to

[01:02:38] *** fuso has quit IRC

[01:02:47] <elirips> ernimril: uh, sorry.. thanks for your help

[01:03:01] *** nater has joined ##java

[01:03:34] <ernimril> time to sleep, have fun...

[01:03:58] <[TechGuy]> currently researching single-address-space OS's

[01:05:37] *** bushwakko has quit IRC

[01:06:13] <IseeIsee> ernimril: I have the a class which is extended from JPanel it has 2 member objects Threads but this class does not implement Serializable, but this class consist of a function which writes this class data members to file, if I keep the Threads of this class transient I don't get a runtime exception but if they are not transient I get a runtime exception

[01:06:14] *** MindZEye has quit IRC

[01:06:21] *** kaylee has joined ##java

[01:06:54] *** ramza3 has joined ##java

[01:06:55] *** censored has quit IRC

[01:07:38] <kaylee> hey, I'm curious, and I'm sure it's a dumb question...I'm looking through some code, in eclipse, that was written by someone else and it's got a ton of warnings that "local variable is never read"....do those matter/

[01:07:52] *** nater has quit IRC

[01:08:42] *** fandeholly has joined ##java

[01:08:57] *** Mazon is now known as mazon

[01:08:57] *** ciaron has quit IRC

[01:09:15] <IseeIsee> if anybody else want to comment on my question, please go ahead

[01:09:17] <synic> kaylee: they are /warnings/

[01:09:35] <paulweb515_> kaylee: In the name of keeping code clean, warnings like that are worth looking at ... if it really is never read why not get rid of them

[01:10:07] <kaylee> synic: eclipse is marking it with yellow and a !

[01:10:14] <kaylee> that's a warning, rith?

[01:10:19] <kaylee> right

[01:10:19] <synic> yup.

[01:10:56] <kaylee> damn...this will take a while to clean ALL these up

[01:11:26] <kaylee> why is it only a warning if a static method is NOT accessed in a static way?

[01:11:59] <paulweb515_> If you go to Preferences>Java>Compiler>Errors and Warnings, you can turn them off

[01:12:18] <kaylee> paulweb515: ah, that would be nice

[01:12:18] *** mohadib has quit IRC

[01:12:19] <kaylee> :)

[01:14:15] <shredstar> kaylee: my bet is the author's compiler did not spit out the 'unused var' warnings.

[01:15:13] <kaylee> either that, or it's been modified, and the old reference was changed, and they never removed the initial creation because they didn't want to check to see if it was needed elsewhere

[01:15:38] <ricky_clarkson> kaylee: It is better to refer to a static method using the class name, rather than a variable.

[01:16:38] *** Mell has joined ##java

[01:17:55] *** nater has joined ##java

[01:18:13] <Mc_Fly> I have a program where I capture some audio from the microphone.I need a samplerate higher than a byte. How can I do this when TargetDataLine's read only reads to a byte array?

[01:18:55] <ricky_clarkson> ~javadoc TargetDataLine

[01:18:55] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, please see javax.sound.sampled.TargetDataLine: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/javax/sound/sampled/TargetDataLine.html

[01:20:19] <ricky_clarkson> Mc_Fly: Suppose a sample was 16 bits.  Two bytes are 16 bits.

[01:21:18] <Mc_Fly> ricky_clarkson: so byteArr[0] and byteArr[1] would make 1. sample?

[01:21:26] <ricky_clarkson> I also think you're confusing sample rate with frame size.

[01:21:48] <ricky_clarkson> Mc_Fly: Yes, that's my edumcated guess.

[01:21:50] <Mc_Fly> ricky_clarkson: ohh, ya sorry framesize

[01:21:56] <Stork> eurgh, methinks i'm going to have problems with this

[01:22:29] <Mc_Fly> ricky_clarkson: how do I but those 2 together to form the word?

[01:22:32] *** fandeholly has quit IRC

[01:22:39] *** elirips has quit IRC

[01:22:54] <ricky_clarkson> Mc_Fly: Basic Java.

[01:23:13] *** slava has joined ##java

[01:23:31] <ricky_clarkson> int sample=firstByte<<8 + secondByte;

[01:23:40] <ricky_clarkson> <<8 is the same as multiplying by 256, fyi.

[01:24:00] <Mc_Fly> ricky_clarkson: left shift?

[01:24:29] <ricky_clarkson> ~operators

[01:24:30] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, operators is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/operators.html

[01:24:51] <Mc_Fly> ricky_clarkson: int is 16 bit?

[01:25:03] <ricky_clarkson> ~primitives

[01:25:04] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, primitives is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/datatypes.html

[01:25:14] <kaylee> what does it mean when a variable has _ before the name like _foo

[01:25:16] <kaylee> ?

[01:25:16] *** Stork has quit IRC

[01:25:26] <ricky_clarkson> kaylee: The author is a numbskull.

[01:25:48] *** eidolon has quit IRC

[01:25:54] <ricky_clarkson> kaylee: More seriously, it's an uncommon convention meaning that the variable is not a variable, but a field.  Probably a private field.

[01:26:09] *** Stork has joined ##java

[01:26:42] <rogue-kun{B}|Awa> I know in MUF it desnates a "stored" varible

[01:26:43] *** rogue-kun{B}|Awa is now known as rogue-kun{B}

[01:26:48] <Stork> hmm

[01:26:59] <kaylee> ricky_clarkson: humm...thanks!

[01:27:26] *** teralaser has quit IRC

[01:27:27] <Mc_Fly> ricky_clarkson: so I would need a short right?

[01:29:00] <Stork> is it alright if i create a class which extends FileInputStream, but doesn't overwrite the read method?

[01:29:06] <Stork> i'd have a readFully method instead

[01:29:23] <cheeser> it's "override" and yes.

[01:29:36] <Stork> sorry, thanks

[01:29:53] <Stork> it's for my EncryptedInputStream :)

[01:31:46] <slava> why extent a class if you don't override any methods?

[01:31:51] <ricky_clarkson> Mc_Fly: There's no problem in putting a 16-bit value in an int.

[01:32:23] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: I'd suggest putting that in a separate utility class that doesn't extend anything.

[01:32:35] <ricky_clarkson> [insert smart-arse comment about implicitly exending Object]

[01:32:36] <Stork> oh, why?

[01:32:48] <Stork> methinks this works fine ;\

[01:32:52] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: Because subclassing is inflexible.

[01:32:57] <Stork> it is?

[01:33:09] <Stork> it worked for the OuputStream :o

[01:33:15] *** mebsd has joined ##java

[01:33:16] <ricky_clarkson> What if you decide you want to readFully the contents from a URL, or for a Socket, later?

[01:33:26] <mebsd> what is J2EE

[01:33:33] <slava> j2ee is crap

[01:33:34] <ricky_clarkson> ~j2ee

[01:33:34] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, j2ee is http://java.sun.com/j2ee, and an overview at http://java.sun.com/j2ee/1.4/docs/tutorial/doc/images/overview-j2eeArchitecture.gif

[01:34:16] <Stork> ricky_clarkson: what would be wrong with that?

[01:34:29] <mebsd> everyone is talking about j2ee here

[01:34:43] *** zz has joined ##java

[01:34:44] <slava> Stork: well if you tie your impl to FIleInputStream, what will you do if you have to read from a scoket?

[01:34:47] *** zz has left ##java

[01:34:48] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: How would you use your readFully with the InputStream that a Socket gives you?

[01:34:55] <mebsd> i feel it's time for me to know about j2ee

[01:35:04] <Stork> erm

[01:35:08] <ricky_clarkson> mebsd: You also feel like telling us this..

[01:35:12] <Stork> (it's a fileinputstream)

[01:35:13] *** tag has joined ##java

[01:35:15] <mebsd> the standard for developing component-based multitier enterprise applications.

[01:35:20] <slava> lol

[01:35:25] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: A Socket doesn't give you a FileInputStream.

[01:35:32] <slava> who cares about component-based multitier enterprise applications?

[01:35:33] <[TechGuy]> Where did I put my noise-cancelling sunglasses.

[01:35:45] <mebsd> j2ee seems powerful

[01:35:49] *** Esaj has quit IRC

[01:35:55] <Stork> ricky_clarkson: what :\ ?

[01:35:56] <ricky_clarkson> mebsd: IT's *a* standard, not *the* standard.

[01:36:11] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: Do you know what a Socket is?

[01:36:16] <Stork> but of course...

[01:36:17] <mebsd> J2EE simplifies building enterprise applications that are portable, scalable, and that integrate easily with legacy applications and data.

[01:36:17] <IseeIsee> ernimril: I have the a class which is extended from JPanel it has 2 member objects Threads but this class does not implement Serializable, but this class consist of a function which writes this class data members to file, if I keep the Threads of this class transient I don't get a runtime exception but if they are not transient I get a runtime exception

[01:36:25] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: Do you know what a FileInputStream is?

[01:36:33] <Stork> i hope so

[01:36:40] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: A Socket doesn't give you a FileInputStream.  What's difficult to understand there?

[01:36:44] <IseeIsee> ricky_clarkson read my question please, may be you can comment on it

[01:36:51] <mebsd> ok i want to learn j2ee, where to start

[01:37:01] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell mebsd about j2ee

[01:37:01] <javabot> mebsd, j2ee is http://java.sun.com/j2ee, and an overview at http://java.sun.com/j2ee/1.4/docs/tutorial/doc/images/overview-j2eeArchitecture.gif

[01:37:24] <slava> mebsd: j2ee reduces TCO and increases ROI and provides end-to-end outsourcing synergy.

[01:37:33] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: I don't extend JPanel, and I don't serialise JPanels.

[01:37:37] <Stork> ricky_clarkson: i'm confused about your point :\ why would i be using a Socket with my FileInputStream

[01:37:41] <ricky_clarkson> I see both as pointless.

[01:37:59] <slava> Stork: because what if your data is not stored in a file?

[01:38:01] <Stork> do you think i should extends InputStream instead?

[01:38:08] <slava> don't "extends" anything

[01:38:09] <kaylee> night ya'll

[01:38:11] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: Suppose at some point you are reading data from a Socket.  You notice your readFully method and want to call it.

[01:38:11] *** kaylee has quit IRC

[01:38:24] <IseeIsee> thats what I'm saying my JPanel is'nt serialized

[01:38:36] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: Yes it is.

[01:38:40] <IseeIsee> my JPanel class has data members which are serialized

[01:38:44] <Stork> okay, i think i get your point

[01:39:13] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: Ok, and other data members which you assert are not serialized, give you a runtime exception?

[01:39:20] <IseeIsee> I don't have anything like MyJPanel extends JPanel implements Serializable

[01:39:25] <Stork> so i wont extends anything, and use an instance of InputStream instead?

[01:39:33] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: Sounds good.

[01:39:40] <Stork> cool

[01:39:43] *** Mell has quit IRC

[01:39:46] * Stork gets busy

[01:40:08] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: For more info on why I don't subclass in general: http://lavender.cime.net/~ricky/subclassing.txt

[01:40:09] <Drone> That URL gave the following error code: 404 Not Found

[01:40:14] <mebsd> a class can have both abstract and non starct class right

[01:40:16] <IseeIsee> My JPanel has 2 data members of type Thread, they give me a runtime exception if I don't put transient before them

[01:40:17] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: For more info on why I don't subclass in general: http://lavender.cime.net/~ricky/tmp/subclassing.txt

[01:40:24] <ricky_clarkson> mebsd: non-startct?

[01:40:29] *** dmlloyd has joined ##java

[01:40:30] <mebsd> but abstract class must have all abstract methos?

[01:40:45] <mebsd> nonabstract methos

[01:40:48] <mebsd> methods

[01:40:53] <ricky_clarkson> A non-static class can not have abstract methods.

[01:41:00] <ricky_clarkson> CGah, gforget that..

[01:41:12] <ricky_clarkson> A non-abstract class can not have abstract methods.

[01:41:31] <ricky_clarkson> An abstract class can have abstract methods (and non-abstract methods).

[01:41:44] <ricky_clarkson> An interface can only have abstract methods, no non-abstract.

[01:42:59] <mebsd> but an abstract class must be subclassed by other class to use?

[01:43:04] <Stork> thanks for that ricky_clarkson

[01:43:11] <ricky_clarkson> mebsd: To be instantiated, yes.

[01:43:33] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: No problem.

[01:43:35] *** Mell has joined ##java

[01:43:53] <mebsd> tose methods in interface must be defined later, only declare in interface?

[01:44:12] <slava> mebsd: can you tell me more about how j2ee will increase my e-agility and bring my business into the future?

[01:44:12] <ricky_clarkson> They are defined in the implementing class[es], yes.

[01:44:24] <dmlloyd> lol slava

[01:44:32] <dmlloyd> I was asking myself exactly that question today

[01:44:42] <mebsd> it depends what type of business do you have

[01:44:53] <dmlloyd> that was right before I considered drilling a hole in my head

[01:45:02] <ricky_clarkson> slava: Buzzword-compliance is powerful marketing.

[01:45:02] <ricky_clarkson> mebsd: slava is a professional troll.

[01:45:17] <mebsd> you also have to ask yourself, how much you are willing  to invest in this business

[01:45:17] <IseeIsee> ricky_clarkson ?

[01:45:22] <dmlloyd> I'm more of a trolling professional

[01:45:24] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: ??

[01:45:37] <mebsd> a normal class cannot have abstract methos why

[01:45:39] <Stork> ricky_clarkson: how do i know how much data a socket is going to give me in order to know what size my byte[] has to be

[01:45:47] <ricky_clarkson> mebsd: Because that would make it abstract.

[01:46:07] <slava> mebsd: its an innovative venture seeking joint partnerships throughout the industry through new paradigms of data mining modelling

[01:46:08] <ricky_clarkson> mebsd: Imagine if your car had an abstract steering wheel.

[01:46:09] <IseeIsee> ricky_clarkson: I answers your question above, I don't Serialize the JPanel

[01:46:31] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: What's the question?

[01:47:21] <ricky_clarkson> 1. You serialise one thing, and get a runtime exception on it?

[01:47:34] <Mc_Fly> ricky_clarkson: When I try to setup the line with 16 bit I get this exception: IllegalArgumentException: No line matching interface TargetDataLine supporting format PCM_UNSIGNED 8000.0 Hz, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, big-endian is supported. what should I change?

[01:47:43] <ricky_clarkson> 2. You serialise one thing, and get a runtime exception on something (supposedly) unrelated?

[01:47:55] *** mohadib has joined ##java

[01:47:56] <ricky_clarkson> Mc_Fly: No idea.

[01:48:08] <Mc_Fly> ok

[01:48:21] <dmlloyd> Mc_Fly, 8khz sample rate seems atypical to me

[01:48:33] <dmlloyd> unless that's really what you're going for

[01:48:51] <Mc_Fly> dmlloyd: what sould I put instead?

[01:48:57] <mohadib> Mc_Fly!!!

[01:48:58] <dmlloyd> depends

[01:49:03] <dmlloyd> audio, right?

[01:49:14] <Mc_Fly> dmlloyd: the exception accured when I put 16bit instead of 8

[01:49:21] <dmlloyd> that's weird too

[01:49:26] <Stork> how do i know how much data a socket is going to give me in order to know what size my byte[] has to be

[01:49:32] <Mc_Fly> dmlloyd: yes, audio

[01:49:37] <dmlloyd> I'd think that 44.1khz would be available, probably 22.05khz as well

[01:50:12] <mohadib> Stork: you dont

[01:50:23] <mohadib> that is why you should use a resizable buffer

[01:50:25] <slava> dmlloyd: i think only multiples of the hardware's rate are supported

[01:50:25] <Stork> how would a readFully method work them :\ ?

[01:50:27] <mohadib> like a BAOS

[01:50:29] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: You don't, you'll get a EOFException I think.

[01:50:37] <slava> dmlloyd: since resampling is expensive

[01:50:40] <mohadib> Stork: it reads as much as you tell it

[01:50:43] *** synic has quit IRC

[01:50:54] <Stork> well that sucks ;(

[01:50:57] <dmlloyd> slava: yeah, most audio devices support 44.1khz though these days, and 48khz

[01:50:58] <mohadib> why

[01:51:05] <mohadib> Stork: what is the big deal

[01:51:07] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: I'd just add it all to a collection (either normal Java or Apache's primitive-specific collections), then return a byte[] based on those.

[01:51:14] <mohadib> use a buffer then toByteArray it

[01:51:22] <dmlloyd> I guess 8khz is 1/6th 48khz, but it gives you a pretty miniscule audible frequency range

[01:51:23] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Stork about slurp

[01:51:24] <javabot> Stork, slurp is to read a large data file entirely into memory before working on it.  Another option is to read a small piece of data, process it, then read the next piece.

[01:51:34] <Stork> hm

[01:51:40] <Stork> a collection 'eh?

[01:51:51] *** Chang_Wufei is now known as Wufei|TV

[01:52:50] <Stork> how annoying :o

[01:52:53] <mohadib> Stork: a ByteArrayOutputStream

[01:53:03] <mohadib> like cheeser said about a 100 times

[01:53:04] <Stork> mohadib: i don't understand them :\

[01:53:18] <Stork> i don't even know what a buffer is

[01:53:19] <IseeIsee> I don't have anything like MyJPanel extends JPanel implements Serializable

[01:53:27] <IseeIsee> ricky_clarkson: I answers your question above, I don't Serialize the JPanel

[01:53:58] <IseeIsee> My JPanel has 2 data members of type Thread, they give me a runtime exception if I don't put transient before them, thats whats strange which I don't understand, when my class is'nt implementing the Serializable interface then why do I get such an error

[01:54:12] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: JPanel implements Serializable.

[01:54:17] <mohadib> Strork bos.write(message);

[01:54:23] <mohadib> where message is a byte[]

[01:54:27] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: You are probably accidentally serialising your JPanel.

[01:54:37] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: Yet another reason not to fucking subclass JPAnel.

[01:54:37] <mohadib> keep doing it till your done then bos.toByteArray()

[01:54:41] *** z310ii has joined ##java

[01:55:18] <IseeIsee> public class GamePanel extends JPanel                  ok this is straight off the code

[01:55:27] *** scalar has joined ##java

[01:55:29] <IseeIsee> i'm not serializing my JPanel

[01:55:31] <Stork> mohadib: this is for an inputstream :|

[01:55:40] <scalar> hi

[01:55:41] <mohadib> Stork: one sec..

[01:56:10] <IseeIsee> by the way if I don't subclass JPanel how can we create animations ?

[01:56:30] <scalar> I'm writing a class loader. is there any way to find out if a class has already been loaded by the system class loader? findLoadedClass(String name) is protected, so I can't do getSystemClassLoader().findLoadedClass(name)

[01:57:18] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: I put a BufferedImage on an ImageIcon and put that on a JLabel.

[01:58:11] <ricky_clarkson> Images are a much smarter way of doing animation - that's what they're for.

[01:58:22] <[TechGuy]> scalar: See JVM spec. You can only ask your parent classloader. It's recursive. By such, you determine whether the class has been loaded by *a* classloader other than yours

[01:58:32] <Drone> View mohadib's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8564

[01:58:37] <mohadib> Stork: ^^

[01:58:51] <Stork> okay, thanks, i'll look

[01:59:00] <mohadib> np

[01:59:03] *** wcstok has joined ##java

[01:59:16] *** Tartaros has quit IRC

[01:59:20] <scalar> [TechGuy]: ok, so getParen() instead of getSystemClassLoader(). doesn't change the fact that findLoadedClass is protected. how do I find out if a class has been loaded by *a* class loader?

[01:59:34] <Stork> i think i finally understand what BAOS is now...

[01:59:41] <Stork> :|

[02:00:10] <IseeIsee> ok anywayz

[02:00:43] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: Does your JPanel subclass have any inner classes, or anonymous classes?

[02:00:59] *** cm_patric has quit IRC

[02:01:16] <Stork> mohadib: what's the significance of the size of the byte[] ?

[02:01:34] <mohadib> none

[02:01:37] <mohadib> i like 512

[02:01:39] <mohadib> :)

[02:01:46] <Stork> hehe :P

[02:01:52] <scalar> I like 6969

[02:01:54] <mohadib> use smaller if it suits your data better

[02:01:57] <mohadib> hehe

[02:02:10] <mohadib> well , i would go with 64,128,512 , etc...

[02:02:22] <scalar> you're weird

[02:02:24] <Stork> why does size make a difference?

[02:02:31] <mohadib> ask any women

[02:02:31] <dmlloyd> because size matters

[02:02:35] <ricky_clarkson> Ask a lady.

[02:02:36] <scalar> I go with 69, 96, 6996, 9669, ...

[02:02:36] <Stork> lol.

[02:02:45] <Stork> seriously mohadib :p

[02:02:59] <mebsd> ricky_clarkson: i can't imagine that

[02:03:05] *** delvinj has joined ##java

[02:03:07] <ricky_clarkson> mebsd: What?

[02:03:11] <ricky_clarkson> Imagine what?

[02:03:17] <mohadib> Stork: ask yourself why memory modules come in 65,128,256 etc?

[02:03:18] <mebsd> a car with an abstract wheel

[02:03:20] <mohadib> see a pattern?

[02:03:30] <[TechGuy]> scalar: Mental parse error. findLoadedClass is protected and defined in ClassLoader. You're supposed to be subclassing ClassLoader, which would allow access to protected methods.

[02:03:33] <Stork> 56*

[02:03:34] <slava> mebsd: does j2ee support outsourcing out of the box?

[02:03:35] <ricky_clarkson> mebsd: Right, so that's why a non-abstract class cannot have abstract parts.

[02:03:38] <jwormy> floggin molly mohadib is a bastag

[02:03:39] <mohadib> s/65/64

[02:03:41] <[TechGuy]> scalar: What am I missing? :P

[02:03:44] <Stork> pssht :p

[02:03:44] <mohadib> jwormy: ;)

[02:04:01] <mohadib> jwormy: i almost murder again at work

[02:04:09] <mebsd> ricky_clarkson: but an abstract class can have non abstract parts, why

[02:04:11] <jwormy> yea i murdered early

[02:04:12] <mohadib> but i had a safety meeting with mary jane

[02:04:16] <mohadib> all was well

[02:04:16] <jwormy> hahhah

[02:04:19] <mohadib> ;)

[02:04:31] <slava> mebsd: can you please answer my question?

[02:04:35] <ricky_clarkson> mebsd: Because Java is broken.

[02:04:48] <ricky_clarkson> mebsd: Use interfaces instead of abstract classes.

[02:04:52] <mebsd> slava: i don't know, rtfm :)

[02:04:58] <mebsd> ricky_clarkson: ok

[02:05:03] <mebsd> i'l check api again

[02:05:04] <mohadib> ~rtfm

[02:05:05] <javabot> mohadib, rtfm is Read The Fine/Fucking Manual

[02:05:13] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell mebsd about abstract

[02:05:13] <javabot> mebsd, abstract is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/javaOO/abstract.html

[02:05:59] *** HelloWorld82 has left ##java

[02:06:00] <mohadib> damn , my new house subwoofer wont stay still

[02:06:06] <mohadib> maybe i need to weight it?

[02:06:29] <slava> mohadib: stop flossing your sound system

[02:06:46] <IseeIsee> how do you debug a GUI ?

[02:06:48] <mohadib> slava: sup mua main man

[02:06:49] <scalar> [TechGuy]: I can call super.findLoadedClass(name), but not getParent().findLoadedClass(name)

[02:06:54] <mohadib> IseeIsee: you dont

[02:07:01] <mohadib> IseeIsee: you switch to GTK ;)

[02:07:02] <delvinj> the gui debugs you =)

[02:07:08] <IseeIsee> whats GTK ?

[02:07:14] <dmlloyd> mohadib: put it on a piece of foam or something

[02:07:14] <mohadib> ;)

[02:07:19] *** z310ii has quit IRC

[02:07:20] <dmlloyd> or a pillow

[02:07:23] <scalar> [TechGuy]: protected methods can only be accessed from within the same instance

[02:07:24] <mohadib> dmlloyd: good idea

[02:07:38] <mohadib> dmlloyd: it's walking across the room :p

[02:07:54] *** overnout has joined ##Java

[02:07:55] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: What's Google?

[02:08:04] <mohadib> something cumps use

[02:08:08] <mohadib> chumps

[02:08:13] <ricky_clarkson> scalar: Bullshit.

[02:08:30] <mohadib> ~tell scalar about protected

[02:08:30] <javabot> scalar, protected is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/second_edition/html/classes.doc.html#40862

[02:08:50] <mohadib> eh , that link sucks

[02:09:14] *** mcrandello has joined ##java

[02:09:17] <[TechGuy]> sorry, I'm only half paying-attention here, and only half thinking in Java. Reading some CLR specs currently

[02:10:09] *** bov has joined ##java

[02:10:17] <slava> [TechGuy]: started the OS yet?

[02:10:52] <[TechGuy]> slava: Actually, yes. Paper mostly. Started gathering some sample code.

[02:11:00] <slava> does it boot?

[02:11:24] <mcrandello> Hi does anyone know how to format a regexp for the character "\" using String.split?

[02:11:33] <ricky_clarkson> mcrandello: cough \\\\

[02:11:38] <[TechGuy]> Considering I'm using GRUB and the best it does is load a very rudimentary opcode interpreter that spits out a Hello World type message, yes.

[02:11:40] <mcrandello> 4 of em?

[02:11:49] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell mcrandello about double escape

[02:11:49] <javabot> mcrandello, double escape is http://mindprod.com/jgloss/regex.html - see the first row in the table.

[02:13:24] <slava> [TechGuy]: neat

[02:13:26] <[TechGuy]> slava: But anyway, progress will be slow until probably February or so, when I rid myself of these other coding projects that are more pressing currently

[02:13:39] <scalar> ricky_clarkson, mohadib: how come I can't call getParent().findLoadedClass(name) from within MyClassLoader (which extends ClassLoader) then? it complains "findLoadedClass(java.lang.String) has protected access in java.lang.ClassLoader"

[02:13:49] <mcrandello> ricky_clarkson, thanks!

[02:13:50] *** Mell has quit IRC

[02:13:51] <ricky_clarkson> [TechGuy]: [Tanenbaum] It'll never work!

[02:14:05] *** IseeIsee has quit IRC

[02:14:19] <dmlloyd> nothing like reinventing a yet-rounder wheel

[02:14:22] <[TechGuy]> slava: My advising professor has agreed to co-author a paper detailing the general system architecture with me, and the department's opening the new undergrad research class in the registrar books just for htis

[02:14:32] <dmlloyd> I tend to reinvent wheels only when the original is square

[02:14:36] *** Job1 has quit IRC

[02:14:54] <dmlloyd> I love metaphors

[02:14:55] <scalar> ricky_clarkson, mohadib: this is the file I'm trying to compile --> http://pastebin.com/404693

[02:14:55] <slava> yeah, writing OSes is silly, i mean these linux and apple people are just reinventing the wheel

[02:14:59] <mohadib> or if the docs for the wheel suck

[02:15:00] <dmlloyd> so packed with sweet nothingness

[02:15:08] *** Gavrila has quit IRC

[02:15:22] <[TechGuy]> ricky_clarkson: AST is... well... *shrug*. I respect him. He writes good books (IMO)(

[02:15:36] <[TechGuy]> I respect him more than ESR, RMS, and some others

[02:15:42] <ricky_clarkson> scprotected works not just for the same instance but for the same class.

[02:15:51] <slava> RMS has written more interesting code than AST though

[02:15:59] <jwormy> dmlloyd, you think if you reinvent it enough it will turn square again?   http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads5/Sq+_trike1113254491.jpg

[02:16:04] <ricky_clarkson> scalar: ^^

[02:16:15] <dmlloyd> lol

[02:16:18] <scalar> ricky_clarkson?

[02:16:27] <ricky_clarkson> scalar: ??

[02:16:29] <jwormy> mohadib, http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads5/Sq+_trike1113254491.jpg

[02:16:43] <mohadib> heh

[02:16:49] <scalar> ricky_clarkson: what's the "^^" supposed to mean?

[02:16:53] <ricky_clarkson> Look up.

[02:17:00] <[TechGuy]> scalar: AST, I believe, would tend to be more, uh, tolerable in a debate. RMS has no tact.

[02:17:12] <[TechGuy]> doh, that was to slava

[02:17:30] <dmlloyd> slava has no tact either

[02:17:34] <dmlloyd> it's why we love him

[02:17:35] *** mcrandello has quit IRC

[02:17:36] <[TechGuy]> wait, what am I saying... talking about tolerance in a debate to slava

[02:17:36] <[TechGuy]> LOL

[02:17:54] <[TechGuy]> dmlloyd: Faster on the keyboard than me tonight

[02:17:58] <ricky_clarkson> slava is only tolerant to his reflection.

[02:18:00] <scalar> ricky_clarkson: can you please tell me why this doesn't compile? http://pastebin.com/404693

[02:18:22] *** shredstar has quit IRC

[02:18:37] <[TechGuy]> final class SlavaDebater { protected final boolean isTolerable(); } :D

[02:18:49] <slava> [TechGuy]: have you looked at L4?

[02:18:58] <ricky_clarkson> scalar: Because getParent() doesn't return a TestLoader.

[02:19:11] <[TechGuy]> slava: Yes

[02:19:29] <ricky_clarkson> I keep looking at that and seeing SlavaBeater.

[02:19:32] <slava> [TechGuy]: what do you think of it? and what do you think of Mach, if you've looked at it?

[02:19:35] <[TechGuy]> slava: L4, ECOS (EROS?), some other research microkernels.

[02:19:43] <dmlloyd> mmm, eros

[02:20:01] <[TechGuy]> slava: Like everything else, interesting in its own ways. I tend to read over it and just mentally incorporate ideas.

[02:20:06] <scalar> ricky_clarkson: it returns a ClassLoader, and ClassLoader has a protected method called findLoadedClass(). TestLoader is a subclass of ClassLoader. so why can't I call that method?

[02:20:45] <ricky_clarkson> scalar: Because you only get access to findLoadedClass on instances of TestLoader, not on every single ClassLoader.

[02:20:51] <[TechGuy]> slava: Some part of me wants to migrate towards a microkernel design. Conventional OS work has said that microkernel performance sucks. But that was 10-15 years ago

[02:21:22] <slava> [TechGuy]: with a managed language OS you don't need a microkernel

[02:21:30] <[TechGuy]> slava: There was a comment attached to the Minix 3 release message on /. today, talking about a microkernel with a single paged address space, theoretically removing the necessity of a context switch. I'm not sure that's really possible, though

[02:21:39] *** MrEntropy has joined ##java

[02:21:40] <MrEntropy> yo

[02:21:41] <slava> [TechGuy]: memory protection is redundant if your VM checks pointers

[02:21:47] <Mc_Fly> ricky_clarkson: int sample=firstByte<<8 + secondByte;  gives me very strange numbers. do I need to typecast or something?

[02:21:54] <slava> [TechGuy]: so message passing just becomes passing pointers in a shared address space... you don't really need a kernel

[02:21:56] <[TechGuy]> slava: Indeed. In a managed language, I have yet to really visualize a kernel / user space barrier

[02:22:01] <ricky_clarkson> Mc_Fly: Try changing the <<8 to *256.

[02:22:06] <slava> [TechGuy]: there is no kernel/user barrier

[02:22:10] <scalar> ricky_clarkson: hmm, ok. so back to my original question: how do I find out if a class has already been loaded by one of the parent class loaders?

[02:22:13] <[TechGuy]> didn't think so

[02:22:14] <slava> [TechGuy]: everything runs in one address space and in kernel mode

[02:22:16] <dmlloyd> buryer

[02:22:24] <ricky_clarkson> scalar: Dunno.

[02:22:25] <slava> [TechGuy]: you might still want paging and virtual memory

[02:22:29] <scalar> great.

[02:22:30] <[TechGuy]> Oh definitely

[02:22:38] <[TechGuy]> Paging's a necessity

[02:22:38] * ricky_clarkson never claimed to answer that, just that scalar's assumption of what protected does was bullshit.

[02:22:45] <slava> [TechGuy]: however the process/thread separation is unnecessary

[02:23:07] <[TechGuy]> slava: Well, on that point, I intend on taking advantage of CLR's concept of an App Domain

[02:23:11] <scalar> Java's API is seriously shitty...

[02:23:15] <scalar> oh well, thanks guys

[02:23:28] *** scalar has left ##java

[02:23:47] *** FreemaniaX has joined ##java

[02:24:04] <dmlloyd> someday someone will create a perfect language with a perfect sdk

[02:24:05] <Mc_Fly> ricky_clarkson: looks better... testing

[02:24:05] <slava> [TechGuy]: what would be interesting is versioned classes integrated with a versioned file system

[02:24:10] <[TechGuy]> slava: Basically the CLR's copy of Java Isolates. Not *necessarily* needed, but useful for further protection.

[02:24:19] <dmlloyd> and yet most of the software created with it will still suck

[02:24:20] <MrEntropy> i've tried the actionMap/inputMap method, but none of the three focus types allow me to catch F keys whenever the JFrame or any of it's contained components have focus. Is there any way to catch them like that? So that they can be activated no matter what in the window has focus?

[02:24:23] <dmlloyd> becuase people are idiots :)

[02:24:31] <[TechGuy]> slava: It's in my FS spec, believe it or not

[02:25:18] <[TechGuy]> dmlloyd: My prof does research in non-symbolic software design & implementation, and alternative language-design paradigms. She's *way* over my head

[02:25:18] <ricky_clarkson> I'd like a real versioned file system.

[02:25:26] <[TechGuy]> ricky_clarkson: Run VAX/VMS

[02:25:38] <ricky_clarkson> [TechGuy]: Shake 'n' VAX?

[02:25:56] <ricky_clarkson> Can't I just use their fs on Winblows or Linux?

[02:25:57] <[TechGuy]> ricky_clarkson: Didn't say it was great. But it has a real versioned FS. :P

[02:26:06] <[TechGuy]> double the pain

[02:26:16] <slava> lisp machines had a versioned FS integrated with a versioned module system

[02:26:22] <slava> i haven't seen this integration anywhere else

[02:26:32] <Amnesiac> hey slava

[02:26:58] *** rogue-kun{B} is now known as rogue-kun{B}|Awa

[02:27:22] <[TechGuy]> well, CLR has it going for itself in that assemblies can reference specific external assembly library versions. So those other versions, in the conceptual object FS, would be transparently stored

[02:27:58] <slava> yes, i believe CLR assemblies are functionally equivalent to "systems" in lisp. its a good idea

[02:28:16] <[TechGuy]> I'm still working on the theoretical part of the scheduler. But the VM and device driver architecture is on paper back at my office on campus

[02:28:16] <slava> it needs the filesystem integration though

[02:28:38] <[TechGuy]> Well, yeah, that's going to be the major part of the work over the winter break in Dec & Jan, is the FS spec-out

[02:29:00] <[TechGuy]> let's just say I'm going non-hierarchical

[02:29:02] <slava> i'd suggest writing some code first, then settling on a design

[02:29:09] *** shingoki has quit IRC

[02:29:10] <slava> you can get a basic OS fleshed out in two weeks

[02:29:18] <slava> then play around with different approaches

[02:29:30] <[TechGuy]> Assuming no external deadlines & other projects, which I don't have that luxury. :D

[02:30:07] <[TechGuy]> speaking of which, I have to go back to finishing one of my other class's papers in a little bit

[02:30:16] <[TechGuy]> So much for relaxation time tonight. ;)

[02:31:42] <[TechGuy]> At least I managed to implement the nasty rudimentary nano-kernel core (the CLR interpreter and basic core address management) in a little over 2,000 LOC

[02:31:54] <slava> of C?

[02:32:19] *** eidolon has joined ##java

[02:33:17] *** yi has left ##java

[02:33:44] <[TechGuy]> C++ currently

[02:34:13] <[TechGuy]> actually what I need to do is rewrite it in C# and have Visual Studio compile to native code, instead of IL, to make it self-hosting

[02:34:25] <slava> or rather have your own compiler compile it

[02:34:40] <[TechGuy]> But I have to figure out how to tell Visual Studio to not use external resources, specific start addresses, etc

[02:35:02] <[TechGuy]> my own compiler would be a userspace app, and not even on the dev schedule yet. :P

[02:35:34] <[TechGuy]> Actually, I'm kind of mute on that point right now. Native compilation of c# is still limited, in Visual Studio, to x86. Other platforms I haven't seen yet.

[02:35:56] <[TechGuy]> Not sure about any other available compiler chain.

[02:36:03] <slava> there is no technical reason you cannot compile c# to another cpu

[02:37:05] <[TechGuy]> technical, no. At the moment, practical, not available

[02:37:14] <slava> i thought you said you'd write your own?

[02:37:22] *** TirClass is now known as Tirlas

[02:37:26] <[TechGuy]> operative word is "would"

[02:37:40] <slava> a compiler is not hard to write, you just have to know how

[02:38:05] <slava> which is not a lot of work to learn

[02:38:31] <[TechGuy]> Lot of symbol parsing, I know. That's my last tech elective next semester (taught by my advisory prof!)... Language Translation & Compiler Architecture

[02:38:53] <slava> a compiler does not do parsing

[02:39:59] <slava> a compiler takes an AST, transforms it to machine code

[02:40:19] <[TechGuy]> Gotta have a language parser that goes to AST

[02:40:25] <dmlloyd> no you dont!

[02:40:32] <dmlloyd> you just need an AST

[02:40:36] <slava> right, but a parser is a separate component

[02:40:55] <slava> a compiler should be exposed as an API that takes an AST and returns an object pointing to machine code; you should not have to involve source code if you don't want to

[02:41:13] <[TechGuy]> well for that matter the AST is IL

[02:41:24] <dmlloyd> kind og

[02:41:25] <dmlloyd> f

[02:41:48] <dmlloyd> an AST can do more than an IL though, because you can retain semantic information and preform specific optimizations

[02:41:51] <slava> usually a compiler transforms the AST into some intermediate representation, does optimization, then maybe transforms to another intermediate representation and finally to machine code

[02:43:05] <[TechGuy]> given that the system distributable "binary" is IL, which as we've conceded is a subset of an AST, I don't see the current practical need for the separation of source -> AST -> IL rather than going straight from source -> optimized IL

[02:43:05] <Stork> what the hell :\

[02:43:16] <Stork> my FileInputStream isn't returning any data

[02:43:22] <dmlloyd> I'd choose a bigger file

[02:43:26] <[TechGuy]> (not that I don't get the idea. I just don't see the practical nature of it at this point in the design)

[02:43:32] <mohadib> dmlloyd: hehe

[02:43:40] <mohadib> Stork: testcase

[02:43:45] <slava> [TechGuy]: its more like source -> IL -> internal compiler IR #1 -> internal compiler IR #2 -> ... -> machine code

[02:43:46] <Stork> nooo

[02:44:03] <Stork> methinks my readFully method is broken

[02:44:05] <slava> [TechGuy]: my compiler has about 5 stages and two internal representations; three if you count the AST, four if you count source code

[02:44:14] *** aktinos has quit IRC

[02:44:19] <mohadib> Stork: testcase

[02:44:35] <Stork> mohadib: i'd have to change pretty much everything

[02:44:47] <mohadib> ok

[02:44:55] <Stork> okay, i'lll make one

[02:45:04] <mohadib> javabot: Stork++

[02:45:05] <mohadib> lol

[02:45:16] <[TechGuy]> slava: That's the domain of the native JIT compiler module, which I'm leaving until later. It doesn't do anything for performance obviously, but I'm sticking with straight bytecode interpretation right now. The brain can only parse so many parallel module designs at once. ;)

[02:45:37] <slava> [TechGuy]: ok, i thought you meant compiler == native code compiler

[02:46:04] <[TechGuy]> eh, not really

[02:46:12] <[TechGuy]> but anyway...

[02:46:16] <slava> a bytecode compiler is trivial since it does no optimization

[02:46:18] *** Mc_Fly has quit IRC

[02:46:24] <slava> just traverse the syntax tree

[02:46:32] *** Stork has quit IRC

[02:46:56] <[TechGuy]> that again implies a source -> syntax tree parser

[02:46:58] <MacIver> er

[02:47:09] <[TechGuy]> Which I usually consider part of the compiler toolchain design anyway.

[02:47:09] <slava> [TechGuy]: sure, but that parser shouldn't be part of the compiler

[02:47:21] <slava> [TechGuy]: think about editors that verify syntax on the fly; they'd want to reuse your parser

[02:47:21] <[TechGuy]> separate modules, but part of the same app package

[02:47:28] <MacIver> oh i thought you meant something that compiles to bytecode

[02:47:39] <slava> [TechGuy]: or metaprogramming tools that generate an AST in memory and compile it, without a source file in between

[02:48:26] <javabot> stork has a karma level of 4, mohadib

[02:48:34] <[TechGuy]> we're talking about three or four systems in parallel currently. There's the userspace parser/compiler, which converts to IL, and then the JIT compiler (part of the machine-dependent OS HAL / CLR core) which emits native assembly

[02:48:53] <slava> actually most of the JIT is platform independent

[02:49:29] <[TechGuy]> depending on the level of native platform optimization you want your JIT to do

[02:50:00] <slava> my compiler is platform-independent all the way to the lowest intermediate representation, which is pointer unsafe bytecode that deals with registers and stacks and calls

[02:50:08] <slava> then the backend translates this to native machine code

[02:50:30] <slava> all the optimization is done in a platform-independent way

[02:50:46] <[TechGuy]> where do you do optimization to take advantage of platform native features (like SSE, MMX, etc)?

[02:51:09] *** Stork has joined ##java

[02:51:13] <slava> the high level is aware of architecture features like number of registers, and a few other things

[02:51:42] <slava> i don't do SSE yet, i probably will by the end of the year

[02:52:05] <[TechGuy]> err...

[02:52:09] <[TechGuy]> oookay

[02:52:22] <slava> ?

[02:52:34] *** cored has joined ##java

[02:53:09] *** tirunculus_javae has joined ##java

[02:53:15] *** Dewi has joined ##java

[02:53:16] <[TechGuy]> SSE and such place differing uses on registers depending on the context. I'm not sure how you abstract that out

[02:53:26] <Stork> mohadib: awesome! it works!

[02:53:34] <mohadib> nice

[02:53:36] <[TechGuy]> (again, mental parse error as to the relative "purpose" of the extra abstraction layers)

[02:53:44] <Stork> i just encrypted an image n' then decrypted it :)

[02:53:56] <slava> [TechGuy]: a small part of the compiler needs to be aware of the architecture details, but the majority of optimizations are platform-independent

[02:54:14] <cored> lo slava

[02:54:26] <slava> [TechGuy]: type inference, lambda lifting, partial evaluation, etc... they don't care about register conventions

[02:54:40] <slava> [TechGuy]: this is true of any compiler

[02:54:40] <[TechGuy]> oookay. I'll take your word for it, given that I haven't studied compiler design & optimization schemes yet

[02:55:05] <[TechGuy]> care to reference a book to put on my Christmas list? :D

[02:55:22] <slava> i just studied the source code to other compilers

[02:55:29] <slava> read a few books, can't think of any titles off the top of my head but mostly they didn't help

[02:56:17] <[TechGuy]> okay, other than GCC, care to recommend a codebase to look at? (kind of worried about the "tainted memory" problem behind reading some licensed code)

[02:56:22] <slava> sbcl

[02:56:44] <slava> its much nicer than gcc to read because the compiler is written in high level OOP/functional code

[02:56:47] <slava> not C full of #ifdefs

[02:56:53] *** Stork has quit IRC

[02:57:02] <[TechGuy]> Lisp... I could've figured, coming from you. :P

[02:57:15] <slava> fine, ignore it, but its a masterpiece of a compiler

[02:57:24] *** nater has quit IRC

[02:57:28] <[TechGuy]> it was a smartass comment. Of course I'll read it

[02:57:42] *** shad0wcat has joined ##java

[02:58:34] *** ivanneto has joined ##java

[02:59:47] *** Stork has joined ##java

[02:59:59] <ivanneto> Does anyone know how I can access a servlet URL (that is, its address) inside the servlet? Is this information in the ServletContext?

[03:00:02] <[TechGuy]> oh well... time to watch Drew Carey's Green Screen Show, and then off to do other work

[03:00:43] <dmlloyd> ivanneto, you mean the request URL?

[03:00:52] <[TechGuy]> hey, we survived another off-topic yakking about OS & compiler design without incurring the wrath (hah) of cheeser

[03:01:07] <ivanneto> dmlloyd: yes!

[03:01:14] <dmlloyd> ivanneto: look in the request object

[03:01:20] <slava> i'm getting really tired of working on other people's code

[03:01:28] *** shad0wcat has quit IRC

[03:01:32] <[TechGuy]> 'night

[03:01:57] <ricky_clarkson> He must be down the pub.

[03:02:06] *** [TechGuy] has quit IRC

[03:02:31] * ricky_clarkson phones Mrs. Cheeser.

[03:02:45] <ivanneto> dmlloyd: In fact I'm using a web service, not a servlet. I have access only to the ServletContext. But I'll try to find out a way to access the Request. Tanks!

[03:06:45] *** Stork has quit IRC

[03:08:17] *** Stork has joined ##java

[03:08:28] <Stork> god, keep dc'ing

[03:09:21] <ricky_clarkson> God does.

[03:10:48] *** Aquila_Deus has joined ##java

[03:11:05] *** overnout has quit IRC

[03:11:09] <Stork> he does?

[03:11:59] <ricky_clarkson> Either that or he doesn't like me.

[03:12:25] * mohadib

[03:12:36] <mohadib> if you cant say anything nice...

[03:13:14] <mebsd> if i ask you, what's the most difficult part of java programming, what would it be?

[03:13:21] <dmlloyd> dealing with the bullshit

[03:13:33] <dmlloyd> and morons

[03:13:34] *** bov has quit IRC

[03:13:37] <mohadib> phb

[03:14:00] <Stork> dealing with c/c++ programmers

[03:14:11] <slava> what's wrong with them?

[03:14:22] <Stork> most of them are anti-java

[03:14:22] <Uvizor> Stork, Aren't you a C/C++ programmer!

[03:14:23] <mebsd> they are better

[03:14:27] <dmlloyd> they're pale and funny-looking

[03:14:35] <slava> if they're anti-java, then why do you care about them?

[03:14:36] <Stork> most that i've met anyway

[03:14:53] <slava> there's no rational reason to be pro-java, so their position is not unjustified

[03:14:53] <mebsd> you can be anti-c as revenge

[03:15:12] <mohadib> heh

[03:15:12] <Stork> ~abstract

[03:15:12] <javabot> Stork, abstract is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/javaOO/abstract.html

[03:15:24] *** Stork has quit IRC

[03:16:03] <mebsd> how much will a java programmer make per hour

[03:16:04] *** Stork has joined ##java

[03:16:09] <mohadib> 5

[03:16:18] <Stork> ~abstract

[03:16:18] <javabot> Stork, abstract is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/javaOO/abstract.html

[03:16:33] <Uvizor> $5.75/<light year>

[03:16:43] <slava> mebsd: probably not very much

[03:16:44] <ricky_clarkson> slava: 1. Why did you write jEdit?

[03:16:55] <slava> ricky_clarkson: is there a 2?

[03:17:01] <mebsd> who wrote jedit

[03:17:05] <slava> mebsd: depends on what you do

[03:17:21] <slava> mebsd: web stuff? perhaps 20$US/hour, unless you work for a financial firm or something

[03:17:22] <ricky_clarkson> slava: 2. Why does jEdit associate itself with everything?

[03:17:33] <slava> more sophistacted serverside stuff and you could make 100$

[03:17:46] <ricky_clarkson> [on Windows]

[03:18:03] <slava> ricky_clarkson: because the guy who wrote the windows installer/launcher made it behave this way

[03:18:13] <slava> and it doesn't associate itself with everything, it just adds a right-click menu item which you can get rid of

[03:18:42] <ricky_clarkson> Yeah, but I'd rather it didn't add it.

[03:18:44] *** kiwnix has quit IRC

[03:19:01] <mebsd> jedit is a good editor

[03:19:20] <mebsd> good work slava

[03:19:24] <slava> ricky_clarkson: then use the java-based installer and not the windows one.

[03:19:33] <slava> ricky_clarkson: you'll get the double-clickable jar and nothing else.

[03:19:36] <slava> mebsd: thanks

[03:19:42] <ricky_clarkson> slava: I never saw a warning about that before.

[03:19:48] <slava> about what?

[03:19:57] <ricky_clarkson> That the Windows installer would do non-standard stuff.

[03:20:16] <FaeLLe> blame the windows installer guy me thinks

[03:20:36] <mohadib> why else would it be a windows installer if it didnt do some windows non standar stuff

[03:20:42] <mohadib> else its just a java app

[03:20:59] <ricky_clarkson> Ok, but if the windows installer does stupid stuff, the user should be told *before* discovering it for themselves.

[03:21:22] * mohadib nods

[03:21:40] <mohadib> i would find a extra item in my right click menu all the time annoying

[03:21:44] <slava> are you going to file a bug or send a patch?

[03:22:06] <ricky_clarkson> No, I'm just going to uninstall jEdit.

[03:22:28] <mebsd> i hope someday i can be like slava

[03:22:39] <ricky_clarkson> I'd rather be like ricky_clarkson.

[03:22:40] <slava> that's fine with me too, less whining that way

[03:23:05] <mebsd> i want to write some useful java application

[03:23:21] *** Dena|Lap has quit IRC

[03:23:25] <FaeLLe> rewrite java to make it 'good' then :p

[03:23:30] <ricky_clarkson> mebsd: imo you should want to write something, then choose the language.

[03:23:46] <slava> mebsd:  don't bother, you'll just get complaints from people who feel entitled to getting anything they want for free

[03:24:31] <dmlloyd> slava: I demand that you add atari basic syntax highlighting

[03:24:42] <ricky_clarkson> I had high hopes for jEdit.

[03:24:52] <slava> dmlloyd: and a tape cassette interface, using javax.serial? :)

[03:24:57] *** efuzzyone has quit IRC

[03:25:11] <MrEntropy> anyone here know how to get key presses for an entire window?

[03:25:17] <slava> javax.comm, actually. i used it a few years ago, wrote a credit card verification library for some guys in singapore

[03:25:17] <dmlloyd> slava: definitely

[03:25:25] <slava> ricky_clarkson: i had high hopes for ricky_clarkson

[03:25:30] <ricky_clarkson> MrEntropy: Add a KeyListener to it.

[03:25:43] <vinse> slava: heh i used it to once, for a similar purpose

[03:25:46] <vinse> s/to/too

[03:25:51] *** ramza3 has quit IRC

[03:25:52] <MrEntropy> ricky_clarkson: that doesn't work if a textbox has focus thoguh

[03:25:52] <vinse> card readers for a casino

[03:25:56] *** MrPrimate has left ##java

[03:25:57] <ricky_clarkson> slava: I can't imagine why.

[03:25:59] <vinse> frequent player cards

[03:26:02] <slava> EIS1080 protocol?

[03:26:09] <MrEntropy> ricky_clarkson: i want to capture them regardless of what has the focus

[03:26:25] <ricky_clarkson> MrEntropy: So add it to the textbox too.

[03:26:39] <MrEntropy> ricky_clarkson: =/ isn't there a neater way to do it?

[03:26:43] <slava> i was asked to port a VB program that did the same thing, however the source was all in one function... it was about 2000 lines

[03:26:51] <slava> i threw it away and didn't look at it once, i just read the protocol specs

[03:27:05] <dmlloyd> wise

[03:27:10] *** amorph has quit IRC

[03:27:14] <dmlloyd> rewriting from spec is undervalued

[03:28:14] <vinse> now that i think about it i used Comm extensively at my first job, which was programming AMX and Crestron systems, if anyone knows what they are ... most stuff they interface with is serial

[03:28:37] <ricky_clarkson> Except where the spec is out of date because it isn't maintained when the code has taken precedence.

[03:28:38] *** Cow_woC has joined ##java

[03:28:41] <Cow_woC> moo

[03:28:41] <FaeLLe> nite all

[03:28:43] <vinse> and so java was good for emulating them when we didnt have the devices, but only the protocol descriptions (which was often)

[03:28:52] <MrEntropy> ricky_clarkson: i thought there would have been some method like dontConsumeKeyPresses() that passes them to parent and i could therefore catch them in one place.

[03:28:57] <vinse> i did Paul Allens' home stereo controls at that job!

[03:28:57] <mebsd> right now i can only write silly application like this: http://siudong.ath.cx/A3.html it's buggy too

[03:28:59] <slava> ricky_clarkson: in this case the spec was from a vendor and the VB code was home-grown, so the two had no relation to each other

[03:29:16] <mebsd> i don't know how to fix the bug in this program

[03:29:17] <vinse> on his beverly hills house, his new york penthouse, and one of his boats

[03:29:18] <ricky_clarkson> MrEntropy: I think you're mistaking Java for something better.

[03:29:24] <MrEntropy> hahahaa

[03:29:27] <MrEntropy> nice =)

[03:29:29] <slava> if you were writing an http server, you'd refer to the rfc, not to the tomcat source code

[03:30:22] <ricky_clarkson> slava: Gotcha wrt the spec+code above.

[03:31:37] *** tang^ has left ##java

[03:31:39] <mebsd> http://siudong.ath.cx/A3.html i don't know why two balls will get stuck

[03:31:56] <ricky_clarkson> Too much sweat?

[03:32:09] <vinse> during the 18 months i spent working on paul allens various residents, probably in excess of 15 million dollars was spent on hardware, installers and engineers

[03:32:21] <vinse> and he spent about 3 weeks total at any of those residences

[03:32:47] <vinse> he had this crazy house in Nice

[03:32:51] <vinse> that he'd never been to

[03:32:58] <vinse> or was it never spent the night?

[03:33:02] <vinse> i dont remember

[03:35:13] *** kinabalu has quit IRC

[03:36:06] *** ivanneto has quit IRC

[03:37:23] <eidolon> galldang... i'm kickin tonight.  4 things i've added to this swing app have worked.

[03:37:26] * eidolon woo. fuckin. gahs.

[03:37:30] <ricky_clarkson> mebsd: Looks like poor maths.

[03:42:32] *** jake has quit IRC

[03:53:06] *** Parisi has joined ##java

[03:58:10] *** Astinus has quit IRC

[04:05:01] *** [bono] has quit IRC

[04:20:00] *** PhilKC has joined ##java

[04:20:17] <PhilKC> anyone know how to get the Windows Build Version?

[04:21:39] <cheeser> java -version

[04:23:18] <PhilKC> i'm going to assume that wasn't directed at me...

[04:23:27] <cored> cheeser: you were the one talking about Gentoo and the good support it have for Java ?

[04:23:28] <cheeser> it was.

[04:23:33] <cheeser> yep

[04:23:55] <eidolon> PhilKC: you assume incorrectly.

[04:23:57] <PhilKC> cheeser..... a) that doesn't show the windows build information, b) it's issued via cmd isn't it?

[04:24:06] <slava> the codebase at work is so fragile. fix one thing, something else breaks

[04:24:12] <eidolon> a) it shows what version of the JVM it is, and b) yes.

[04:24:28] <cheeser> PhilKC: a)  this is a java channel  b)  yes, it's a CLI command

[04:24:35] <cheeser> if you want windows info, try #windows

[04:24:41] <cored> cheeser: it was because have a lot of packages using Java or just because the installation of some packages made sense ?

[04:25:01] <PhilKC> i mean, something like System.getProperty("sun.os.patch.level")  but for the buidl version

[04:25:18] <cheeser> cored: both

[04:25:22] <cored> cheeser: ok

[04:25:45] <eidolon> yiou're looking for the version of Windows the JVM is running in?

[04:25:50] <cheeser> PhilKC: if you're on windows, print out System.getProperties()

[04:26:06] <eidolon> like, oh, System.os.version ?

[04:26:08] <PhilKC> eidolon, not only the version the build information...

[04:26:15] <PhilKC> i currently have:

[04:26:28] <PhilKC> System.getProperty("os.name") + " " + System.getProperty("sun.os.patch.level") + " " + System.getProperty("os.version") + " " + System.getProperty("os.arch")

[04:26:38] <slava> this experience is yet another piece of evidence towards my theory that good commercial code does not exist

[04:26:51] <PhilKC> which produces something like Windows XP Service Pack 2 5.1 x86 on windows..

[04:26:57] <eidolon> sounds like the version to me.

[04:27:17] <eidolon> i'm deliberately being obtuse.  the jvm shouldn't care.

[04:27:22] <PhilKC> the -version doesn't provide the windoes build version, it only provides the Java build information

[04:28:12] <cheeser> yes.  that's true.

[04:32:17] <eidolon> and, for the record, bumping my laptop from 768 meg to 2gig has VASTLY improved my development experience.

[04:33:17] <slava> eidolon: i'm on a mac mini with 512... should be getting some ram last week but it hasn't arrived

[04:33:21] <slava> its painfully slow

[04:34:20] * eidolon nodnods.

[04:34:44] <eidolon> runnig jboss + my swing client + gvim + builds and ant tasks, - i could have 3-4 jvms running at once.

[04:34:44] *** blackfalcon has quit IRC

[04:34:46] <eidolon> *death* :)

[04:35:18] <vinse> eidolon: now add to that working over vpn with a remote workspace

[04:35:20] <vinse> on eclipse

[04:35:25] <vinse> and you have my weekend :/

[04:35:39] *** Azrael_- has quit IRC

[04:35:44] <eidolon> yow.

[04:35:57] <eidolon> i stopped using eclipse because of performance / memory issues.  now i have the space for it, i'll go back to it.

[04:36:05] <eidolon> but i'm doing swing dev now (not noodling the appserver for a while) - gvim is fine for me:)

[04:36:13] * eidolon is learning more JTable tricks.

[04:37:15] <ricky_clarkson> vinse: I was using Eclipse like that a month ago.

[04:37:29] <vinse> ricky_clarkson: it's actually nearly impossible

[04:37:47] <vinse> if you click "build automatically" it really does become impossible!

[04:38:01] <eidolon> heh

[04:38:04] <ricky_clarkson> I disagree.

[04:38:25] <vinse> well, painfully slow anyway

[04:38:34] <vinse> i suppose results will differ

[04:38:41] <vinse> depending on connections, hardware etc

[04:38:55] <ricky_clarkson> broadband one end, JaNET other.

[04:39:21] <eidolon> what's janet?

[04:39:29] <vinse> i was just typing that

[04:39:35] <eidolon> :)

[04:40:31] <ricky_clarkson> www.ja.net

[04:40:43] <eidolon> ah.

[04:42:43] <ricky_clarkson> Windows tightVNC viewer one end, tightvncserver the other (on Linux).

[04:42:53] <eidolon> mmm.  vnc.

[04:43:07] <ricky_clarkson> Over a VPN, using Cisco's VPN client.

[04:43:21] <ricky_clarkson> Now I use a laptop.

[04:43:35] <eidolon> i did a full demo of this gui app over a VNC connection to my bosses in NJ.  set up a vncserver on my laptop, punched a hole int he fw on the cable modem, they connected right in, and i shared the vncserver here, instant remote view.

[04:45:17] <ricky_clarkson> You can create flash (macromedia) screen grab animations on Windows - quite handy for pre-scripted demos.

[04:45:36] * eidolon nods.

[04:45:42] <ricky_clarkson> IntelliJ IDEA's webshite has one for its GUI designer plugin.

[04:46:19] * ricky_clarkson -> bed

[04:46:22] <ricky_clarkson> Tue Oct 25 03:47:46 BST 2005

[04:46:29] <ricky_clarkson> up at 7.30

[04:46:34] <eidolon> so this is so weird.  my boss almost -never- talks to me.  i can send a dozen msgs a week with project updates, etc.  he doesn't reply.  he does 'see' them though, so he knows i'm working oni t.  he's on the CVS notify list when i commit.  So i use my cvs commit notices to keep him up to date on what's working and what progress i'm making.  i like doing a commit that has 10 pages of diffs in it "See?  I'm doing a shitload of stuff here

[04:46:34] <eidolon> !"

[04:46:51] <eidolon> wow.  later ricky.   only 10:45 here.  bed in about an hour.

[04:47:08] <eidolon> one more joptionpane to update. :)

[04:47:51] <PhilKC> ok, next question, is it possible to get details about the hardware from Java, google seems to have failed me

[04:48:02] <cheeser> cvs.  tee hee hee

[04:48:42] <eidolon> yea yea.

[04:48:55] <cheeser> 8^)=

[04:49:21] <eidolon> one of my long mails was "we need to integrate this into your source code control system.  I'm only one architect.  We need another Java persno who can spend time with eclipse and your SourceSafe guy and make it all work together, then tell me how to do it."

[04:50:29] <vinse> PhilKC: no, java doesnt do hardware

[04:50:50] <eidolon> actually, yes it does.

[04:50:54] <eidolon> you need to use JNI.

[04:51:04] <vinse> well

[04:51:13] <vinse> if using jni counts, than java does anything

[04:51:14] <PhilKC> vinse, ta, i found System.getProperty("sun.cpu.isalist")   which returns null if unsupported

[04:51:16] <MacIver> is that java :-P

[04:51:24] <eidolon> heh.

[04:51:24] <ricky_clarkson> vinse: Does it make toast?

[04:51:30] <ricky_clarkson> ~make toast

[04:51:31] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'make sense' might be appropriate:

[04:51:33] <javabot> make: *** No rule to make target `sense'.  Stop.

[04:51:42] <ricky_clarkson> ~forget make sense

[04:51:42] <javabot> I forgot about make sense, ricky_clarkson.

[04:51:50] <ricky_clarkson> ~make toast

[04:52:05] <eidolon> i thought you were going to bed?  :)

[04:52:08] <Talden> Waffles, crumpet...

[04:52:17] <vinse> eidolon: he's got this really important thing to do now

[04:52:23] <ricky_clarkson> ~make $1 is <reply>make: *** No rule to make target `$1'.  Stop.

[04:52:23] <eidolon> apparently.

[04:52:23] <javabot> Okay, ricky_clarkson.

[04:52:29] <vinse> it's clearly vital he get this factoid in at 4 AM!

[04:52:36] <ricky_clarkson> ~make toast

[04:52:36] <javabot> make: *** No rule to make target `toast'.  Stop.

[04:52:45] <eidolon> badump.

[04:52:47] * vinse claps for ricky_clarkson

[04:53:09] <ricky_clarkson> I have to teach for 2 hours tomorrow 9am-11am, then I'm free to snore.

[04:53:16] <ricky_clarkson> er, today. ;)

[04:53:41] *** wcstok has quit IRC

[04:56:56] <Talden> It's critical that javabot can make a toasted teacake before you go.

[05:01:02] *** Wufei|TV is now known as Chang_Wufei

[05:02:20] *** Sancezz has quit IRC

[05:06:43] *** berke has joined ##java

[05:08:59] <berke> whats the best way to get the first digits, and first digit after a decimal for a text label?

[05:09:12] <berke> i keep getting these bajillion digit number on my labels

[05:09:25] *** lilalinux has quit IRC

[05:10:54] <eidolon> regexp.

[05:10:58] <Talden> String manipulation 101... look in javadocs for methods like indexOf and lastIndexOf... Character methods like isDigit might be useful to you as well... Alternatively regular expressions can be a tidy looking (if expensive) solution.

[05:12:54] *** eXa_bOy has joined ##java

[05:13:07] *** cybereal has joined ##java

[05:13:13] <eXa_bOy> im looking for someone hats installed jre on debian?

[05:13:38] <mohadib> good job

[05:14:46] <eidolon> i do all my development on debian.

[05:14:51] <eidolon> just ask the question.

[05:15:52] <eXa_bOy> i dont know where i need to get the right jre from.

[05:16:05] <eidolon> java.sun.com

[05:16:08] <eXa_bOy> and how then to install it. using the java-package.

[05:16:26] <eXa_bOy> yeah i know that its on the sun site. but which one do i need?>

[05:17:25] <eXa_bOy> J2SE or J2EE?

[05:17:47] <eidolon> i'm going to take a leap of faith here, and sya you most likely want J2SE.

[05:18:09] <eXa_bOy> :)

[05:18:14] *** snooplsm has joined ##java

[05:18:20] *** Muss has joined ##java

[05:18:25] * eXa_bOy downloads the huuuuuuge sucker

[05:20:23] <Muss> How's everyone

[05:21:00] <Muss> awesome

[05:21:15] <Talden> Mostly asleep I'm guessing ;)

[05:21:31] *** RaggedJack has joined ##java

[05:21:35] <eXa_bOy> its only 34MB .... too easy

[05:21:46] *** tirunculus_javae has quit IRC

[05:21:57] <cybereal> only?

[05:22:55] <eXa_bOy> took me longer to find it than to download it :P

[05:24:47] <eXa_bOy> ok eidolon, whats next?

[05:24:50] * Talden wants that kinda bandwidth...

[05:26:11] <eidolon> install it.

[05:26:38] * eXa_bOy wonders how on earth to do that..

[05:27:10] <eXa_bOy> its a .bin file...

[05:27:37] <Muss> save as image

[05:27:54] <Muss> use a virtual drive or burn it

[05:28:12] *** PhilKC has left ##java

[05:28:40] <cybereal> no

[05:28:44] <snooplsm> its retarded to use sun.net.*'s right

[05:28:46] <cybereal> no no no

[05:28:56] <cybereal> chmod +x *.bin ; ./*.bin

[05:30:44] <cybereal> snooplsm: yes

[05:31:41] <Muss> i guess i have no idea

[05:35:32] <eXa_bOy> cybereal : thats brillient. will i need to do anything else?

[05:35:46] <cybereal> eXa_bOy: you would know, if you read the damn instructions :P

[05:35:54] <eXa_bOy> :O

[05:36:08] <snooplsm> anyone familiar with php?

[05:36:16] <eXa_bOy> #php

[05:36:22] <snooplsm> they are busy

[05:36:32] <eXa_bOy> <--- php developer

[05:36:54] <eXa_bOy> hense lack of leet java knowledge

[05:37:01] <snooplsm> i'll prob get kicked but oh well: my tmp_upload directory isn't available to me since i'm not root and can't edit php.ini

[05:37:01] <eXa_bOy> whats wrong snooplsm

[05:37:10] <snooplsm> when using $_FILES

[05:37:20] <eXa_bOy> your fked then....

[05:37:23] <snooplsm> is theere a way to change the tmp upload directory in the php script

[05:38:03] <eXa_bOy> hmmm... if uploads are disabled in the php.ini then NO but i believe you can change variables dynamically.

[05:38:23] <snooplsm> know of any libraries which offer SSH FTP commands?

[05:38:43] <cybereal> snooplsm: you have access to a db?

[05:38:43] <snooplsm> i think uploads is enabled

[05:39:10] <snooplsm> cybereal: like mysql?

[05:39:18] <cybereal> snooplsm: you could save the file into the db as a glob or whatever

[05:39:20] <cybereal> clob

[05:39:37] <snooplsm> whats that php command to see whats avilable php_system();?

[05:39:46] <cybereal> not the most efficient way but if you can't do uploads to disk...

[05:39:50] <cybereal> phpinfo() I think

[05:40:03] <snooplsm> yea

[05:40:32] <eXa_bOy> you still have to upload the file first...

[05:40:47] <cybereal> he can get the file, it's just a POST

[05:40:48] <snooplsm> i was going to up the file to my own tmp directory, then generate a unique file name for it and dump it in some other directory.

[05:41:15] <snooplsm> http://eden.rutgers.edu/~gravener/demo/upload.html

[05:41:38] <snooplsm> that works, its just when i try moving the file in php it says false

[05:42:19] <snooplsm> /var/tmp/phpTeaqHx

[05:42:34] <cybereal> can you copy then delete, rather than just move?

[05:42:49] <snooplsm> let me try..

[05:42:51] <cybereal> true move can't be done across filesystems and that tmp might be on its own fs

[05:43:47] *** Talden has quit IRC

[05:43:48] <snooplsm> i doubt copy will work but its just copy(old,new)

[05:46:58] <snooplsm> http://pastebin.com/404857

[05:48:26] *** peery has joined ##java

[05:48:43] <peery> is there a way to force the Java JIT to run earlier then normal?

[05:49:10] <frivol> Before 7am?

[05:49:11] <cybereal> wouldn't be JIT then

[05:49:26] <vinse> just T?

[05:49:27] <frivol> I never touch a JIT before 7am

[05:49:37] <vinse> err

[05:49:38] <vinse> IT i guess

[05:50:47] <cybereal> it wouldn't be J, I, or T

[05:50:51] <cybereal> it would jus tbe compiler

[05:51:21] <peery> okay... any one have any idea what the criteria is for the JIT to kick in?

[05:51:34] <peery> on a section of code that is...

[05:52:14] *** eXa_bOy has quit IRC

[05:54:00] <Muss> what's jit ?

[05:54:03] <cybereal> peery: you're not supposed to worry about that

[05:54:08] <cybereal> "Just In Time"

[05:54:15] <cybereal> JIT compiler is what he's talking about

[05:54:29] <peery> cybereal: I have to worry about it though, I'm benchmarking code and I want to benchmark it after the JIT kicks in

[05:54:29] <Muss> oh okay

[05:54:54] <peery> cybereal: the speed up is quite a lot at times

[05:55:19] <cybereal> peery: you can't do it accurately.  every time a new jvm comes out it could happen differently

[05:55:22] <cybereal> learn to live with that

[05:55:27] <peery> cybereal: right now I just run the section of code a lot before I actually measure the code, but it's sort of guess work as too how many times

[05:55:29] <cybereal> benchmarks should be done with the JIT off

[05:55:41] <peery> cybereal: no... I disagree

[05:55:58] <peery> cybereal: if I use the same JVM in call cases, your first statement doesn't apply

[05:56:19] <cybereal> Your benchmark will not be very meaningful

[05:56:27] <cybereal> I suggest you try reading the docs on the jvm

[05:56:30] <peery> cybereal: if I'm checking the performance of a long running app, then the JIT will probably have kicked in

[05:56:46] <cybereal> yes, most likely it will have kicked in when the same code is run many times

[05:56:55] <peery> cybereal: they're not meaningful when the JIT is not turned on

[05:57:14] *** putzel has quit IRC

[05:57:15] <peery> I need to know what the magic number is for the number of time, or even if there is one

[05:57:25] <cybereal> doubtful that it's 100% predictable

[05:57:29] <cybereal> but I couldn't tell you for certain

[06:00:07] *** Amnesiac has quit IRC

[06:00:13] <peery> cybereal: is there a way to query a running JVM as to what's been compiled?

[06:02:36] <cybereal> I don't know

[06:02:41] <cybereal> maybe through the debug server?

[06:02:54] <snooplsm> fuck

[06:05:24] *** Heuristic has quit IRC

[06:06:30] *** Phoenix` has joined ##java

[06:06:38] <slava> run the benchmark 10 times or so

[06:06:51] *** Phoenix` has quit IRC

[06:06:53] <slava> until the time stabilizes

[06:06:58] <slava> it use a profiler to determine what to compile

[06:08:09] *** cored has quit IRC

[06:08:56] <snooplsm> whast php's java equivalent?

[06:09:58] <slava> what?

[06:10:47] *** Heuristic has joined ##java

[06:10:49] <snooplsm> .jsp?

[06:11:19] <cybereal> snooplsm: it is possible to use jsp to develop applications as poorly designed as most php apps, yes

[06:11:28] <vinse> slava, was it you or cheeser who was telling me about Whatshisname's Paradox, where there was a 1:1 mapping from two spheres of different sizes

[06:11:53] <snooplsm> is jsp installed w/ the jdk or is it a seperate install

[06:12:15] <cybereal> snooplsm: it's part of J2EE, usually associated with a servlet container, like tomcat

[06:12:21] <vinse> snooplsm: it's part of j2ee, but it does not include a servlet container

[06:12:26] <vinse> err what cybereal said

[06:12:34] <slava> vinse: not just a 1-1 mapping, but an isometry

[06:14:42] <vinse> ok

[06:14:45] <vinse> but what was the name

[06:14:52] *** kaka has joined ##java

[06:14:54] <vinse> slava: who's paradox?

[06:15:02] *** IMTheNachoMan has quit IRC

[06:15:03] <slava> banach-tarsky

[06:15:09] <vinse> ty

[06:15:17] <kaka> is there any good doc on java?

[06:15:21] *** IMTheNachoMan has joined ##java

[06:15:25] <cybereal> kaka none whatsoever

[06:15:27] <snooplsm> kaka, yes java has the best docs

[06:15:32] <cybereal> kaka there is also no google.com or anything like that

[06:15:42] <vinse> some one needs a doctor?

[06:15:48] <slava> vinse: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Banach-TarskiParadox.html

[06:16:16] <vinse> wikipedia's entry is better

[06:16:34] <vinse> well, more detailed anyway

[06:18:07] *** Azrael_- has joined ##java

[06:19:15] <kaka> cybereal , you so funny huh?

[06:19:18] <kaka> you the funny guy?

[06:19:24] <vinse> ban

[06:19:29] <kaka> ban ?

[06:19:30] <kaka> why ban?

[06:19:33] <vinse> are you trolling?

[06:19:46] <vinse> ~tell kaka about first cup

[06:19:46] <javabot> kaka, A friendly web page to get you started with Java programming: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/getStarted/cupojava/

[06:19:46] <kaka> i just came here to ask some advise and ban?

[06:19:49] <kaka> what the fuck?

[06:19:56] <vinse> ~tell kaka about really big index

[06:19:57] <javabot> kaka, really big index is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/reallybigindex.html

[06:20:08] <kaka> i got some books on java..

[06:20:16] <vinse> kaka: if your'e not a troll i apologize, tehre's some stuf fto get you started

[06:20:23] <kaka> and i just came to ask some info..

[06:20:34] <kaka> okok..

[06:20:35] <kaka> thanks..

[06:21:46] *** bpalmer has joined ##java

[06:22:34] <frivol> nice metaphor for something: http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/856/1675/320/Cat%26FishBowl.jpg

[06:25:01] *** kinabalu has joined ##java

[06:25:05] <cybereal> I love the fishes cuz they're so delicious!

[07:27:51] *** echelog has joined ##java

[07:27:59] <cybereal> 11:27pm here

[07:28:06] <Muss> oh ok

[07:29:13] *** MrEntropy has quit IRC

[07:30:04] * Muss slaps cybereal around a bit with a large trout

[07:31:51] *** IMTheNachoMan has joined ##java

[07:36:08] <IMTheNachoManAFK> anyone here know bout ClassLoader?

[07:38:18] *** IMTheNachoMan has joined ##java

[07:38:32] *** kinabalu has quit IRC

[07:38:44] <vinse> ~tell IMTheNachoManAFK about ask to ask

[07:38:59] <vinse> hmm...

[07:39:05] <cybereal> javabot mia?

[07:39:05] <javabot> cybereal, I have no idea what mia is.

[07:39:05] <IMTheNachoManAFK> im not asking to ask

[07:39:09] <IMTheNachoManAFK> im asking a question

[07:39:12] <cybereal> ~ask

[07:39:12] <javabot> The Ask To Ask protocol wastes more bandwidth than any version of the Ask protocol, so just ask your question.

[07:39:18] <IMTheNachoManAFK> asking to ask would be 'can i ask a question'

[07:39:22] <vinse> sorry wrong factoid

[07:39:22] <cybereal> yep

[07:39:29] <vinse> ~tell IMTheNachoManAFK about poll

[07:39:31] <javabot> IMTheNachoManAFK, poll is something lamers do, like this: "who uses XXX?".  Instead, ask your question.  86.5% of polled users say that polling is annoying and useless.

[07:39:35] <IMTheNachoManAFK> hahah

[07:39:39] <vinse> ;)

[07:39:45] <IMTheNachoManAFK> well im just tryin to figure out if i should bother asking if nobody here has used it

[07:39:50] <cybereal> Just ask

[07:39:55] <cybereal> and if nobody knows nobody will answer :)

[07:40:01] *** __JoKeR__| has joined ##java

[07:40:06] *** sanj has joined ##java

[07:40:08] <IMTheNachoManAFK> i wanted someone to explain a bit more to me what it is, casue i been readin bout it but cant get a good idea bout it

[07:41:36] <vinse> IMTheNachoManAFK: you dont need to know much about it, all i really know is that it's the class that's run by the virtual machine to load the classes that are run by a program

[07:41:53] <vinse> and that's enough for me

[07:42:43] <vinse> unless you're writing an application server or something you never interact with it directly

[07:42:54] <cybereal> only time I ever had to deal with ClassLoader was with some special thing I did in an applet

[07:42:56] <IMTheNachoManAFK> well im writing a server/client chatprog

[07:43:16] <IMTheNachoManAFK> dont know if it might benifit me to use it for it, and if so il have to learn more bout it

[07:43:17] <vinse> i dont think that qualifies

[07:43:22] <IMTheNachoManAFK> thats what i thought

[07:43:32] <cybereal> kinda doubting you'll need to know about it :)

[07:43:32] <IMTheNachoManAFK> it seems to be more of a dynamically loading class data

[07:43:42] <cybereal> you look to reflection for that first

[07:43:48] <IMTheNachoManAFK> reflection?

[07:43:49] <IMTheNachoManAFK> how so?

[07:44:27] <cybereal> If you need to dynamically load a class in the classpath, you can just Class.forName("ful.package.and.ClassName");

[07:44:37] <cybereal> no need to worry about the ClassLoader

[07:44:56] <cybereal> unless it's a class that might be somewhere outside of the classpath I guess... or if you need to load it out of a special stream (i.e. a database?)

[07:45:41] <IMTheNachoManAFK> ahh

[07:45:43] <IMTheNachoManAFK> i understand

[07:45:44] <IMTheNachoManAFK> thx

[07:45:58] <IMTheNachoManAFK> im out

[07:48:06] *** kinabalu has joined ##java

[07:48:33] *** watzlaf has joined ##java

[07:53:31] <Muss> argh

[07:54:35] *** Stork has quit IRC

[08:00:45] *** Esaj has joined ##java

[08:01:56] *** Mactabilis has joined ##java

[08:13:09] *** Stork has joined ##java

[08:13:14] <Muss> what are you up to cyber

[08:15:40] *** _m0O has joined ##java

[08:16:13] *** Luckys has joined ##java

[08:17:37] *** Danielle has joined ##java

[08:17:59] *** Tirlas is now known as Tirsleep

[08:28:54] *** dibblego has joined ##java

[08:29:57] *** mebsd has quit IRC

[08:34:35] *** Dewi has quit IRC

[08:39:01] *** ayrnieu has joined ##java

[08:47:43] *** heanol has joined ##java

[08:50:40] *** enervate has joined ##java

[08:51:02] *** FaeLLe has quit IRC

[08:52:00] *** jwormy has quit IRC

[08:52:06] *** Honk^away has quit IRC

[08:52:55] *** Honk^away has joined ##java

[09:00:15] *** kinabalu has quit IRC

[09:01:56] *** berzerka has joined ##java

[09:03:57] *** Mazon has joined ##java

[09:16:03] *** deedaw has joined ##java

[09:20:02] *** Muss has quit IRC

[09:20:41] *** Dewi has joined ##java

[09:31:09] *** vinse has left ##java

[09:31:34] *** pandora-- has quit IRC

[09:35:22] *** maname has joined ##java

[09:36:21] *** doc|work has joined ##java

[09:40:56] *** FreemaniaX has quit IRC

[09:44:43] *** agnul has joined ##java

[09:47:50] *** Lamex has joined ##java

[09:50:15] <wig> http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~wig/csci111/lab5/index.html

[09:50:20] <wig> how come that only shows up as a grey box?

[09:53:51] *** Lamex has quit IRC

[09:54:01] *** Lamex has joined ##java

[09:56:20] <cybereal> I see lots of boxes

[09:56:29] <wig> do you?

[09:56:38] <wig> my friend said it kept messing up

[09:56:49] <wig> what OS/browser are you using?

[09:56:58] <cybereal> Windows, Opera, with JRE 5.0 installed

[09:57:06] <wig> hmm

[09:57:08] <wig> *shrugs*

[09:57:14] <cybereal> applets suck

[09:57:32] <cybereal> logistical nightmare

[09:57:46] <wig> it was giving me console errors earlier

[09:57:48] <wig> but now it's not

[09:57:50] <wig> *shrgus*

[09:59:40] <cybereal> maybe it got cached

[10:00:02] <wig> that's what i was thinking

[10:00:58] <cybereal> Why use applets?

[10:02:47] <wig> class

[10:03:14] <cybereal> oic

[10:03:27] <cybereal> make sure and stick to the java 1.1 api and you'll find you have more success with applets

[10:03:31] *** Lamex has quit IRC

[10:03:43] *** Lamex has joined ##java

[10:04:21] <wig> this is so weird

[10:04:26] <wig> half the people i send it to

[10:04:27] <wig> it works

[10:04:30] <wig> the other half

[10:04:31] <wig> it doesn't.

[10:04:37] <wig> and it works on mine

[10:07:40] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r

[10:07:44] *** pr3d4t0r sets mode: -b %IMTheNachoMan!*@*

[10:07:52] <sanj> wig, it sodent work on mine

[10:07:58] <sanj> dosent*

[10:08:03] <wig> what in the fucking world

[10:08:35] <Garibaldi> and your enter key is broken

[10:08:38] <Garibaldi> all at the same time

[10:08:53] *** Boggie has joined ##java

[10:10:48] * Boggie bangs his head against the table

[10:10:51] *** pr3d4t0r sets mode: +b %IMTheNachoManAFK!*@*

[10:10:57] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r

[10:12:13] <Boggie> one week for a production application

[10:12:17] * Boggie shoots himself

[10:12:46] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: what's the ban for?

[10:12:51] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: he came to find out why he was banned heh

[10:13:33] *** Lamex has quit IRC

[10:13:46] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: Because he was being an asshat yesterday.

[10:14:09] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: He forgot the golden rule.

[10:14:18] <cybereal> oic

[10:14:26] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: Or rather, he forgot two rules.

[10:15:26] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: The aolbonics rule:  no aolbonics here.

[10:15:36] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: The golden rule:  those with the gold, make the rules.

[10:15:39] *** Kallistor has joined ##java

[10:16:35] <cybereal> I despise aolbonics

[10:18:05] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: Indeed.

[10:18:55] <Boggie> hm .. I think i'll force myself to .. finish the production application I have to finish in one week..with JSP.. (dont blame me i have ignorant managers).

[10:18:56] *** Lamex has joined ##java

[10:20:25] <Garibaldi> Boggie: ok

[10:21:57] *** r0bby has quit IRC

[10:22:16] * Boggie sighs

[10:24:21] *** Boggie has left ##java

[10:30:00] *** YD has joined ##java

[10:32:23] <Dewi> is tomcat supposed to return 0 byte responses for most/all requests?

[10:32:45] <Dewi> that's what fedora's tomcat package seems to be configured to do

[10:34:15] <cybereal> Dewi: are you really qualified to do what you're doing?  Or is it just something management tossed on to you and that's where your animosity towards all of these small problems comes from?

[10:34:35] <Dewi> cybereal: how will I become qualified unless I start?

[10:35:15] <Dewi> cybereal: I can't think of any step I can take that is more basic in learning JSP than installing the application server

[10:35:32] *** vate has joined ##java

[10:35:37] <cybereal> most jsp dev'rs never have to deal with that

[10:35:51] <Dewi> how do they deploy then?

[10:36:03] *** TTT has joined ##java

[10:36:40] <cybereal> They put it on a server that an admin setup for them ;)

[10:36:45] <cybereal> or a host who specialized in tomcat deployments

[10:36:58] <Dewi> I am the only admin

[10:37:00] <Dewi> and the host

[10:37:04] <cybereal> Developers in most cmpanies are not expected to be those roles

[10:37:23] <Dewi> they are in the 3 companies I've worked at here in australia

[10:37:28] <Dewi> one of them was even pretty big

[10:37:40] <TTT> hi, how do I sort/compare Strings in my locale? Now "A ogonek".compareTo("Z") returns -, even thogh "A ogonek" is nd letter in Lithuanian alphabet

[10:37:41] <cybereal> you have bad luck ;)

[10:37:46] <Dewi> actually at the big place tomcat was configured for me, but by another developer, not by some admin

[10:37:58] *** Gavrila has joined ##java

[10:38:33] <TTT> sorry, i meant "Z".compareTo("A ogonek") returns <0, which is wrong

[10:38:39] <Dewi> TTT: um... those strings look totally different

[10:39:00] <TTT> Dewi, "A ogonek" is a letter, i cannot type it

[10:39:08] <TTT> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogonek

[10:39:22] <cybereal> TTT: you have to use the right encoding

[10:39:22] <Dewi> TTT: right. well java strings are unicode

[10:39:40] <TTT> &#260;

[10:39:43] <Dewi> TTT: so if you've put things in correctly they should work right. If java's unicode implementation is up to it

[10:40:40] *** Boggie has joined ##java

[10:40:46] <roots-> check out Collator

[10:41:08] <TTT> it is unicode, but in unicode, 'A ogonek' is letter 260, and Z is letter 90, and 260 is > 90

[10:41:13] *** cratuki has joined ##java

[10:41:33] <roots-> Collator.getInstance(Locale.lt)

[10:41:36] <TTT> which is wrong in Lithuanian alphabet, because A should be < 'Z'

[10:41:40] <roots-> lt might be something else but lithuania

[10:41:42] <roots-> but you will know

[10:41:44] <TTT> roots-, ok, checking it out

[10:42:48] <cratuki> SimpleDateFormat sdf = new SimpleDateFormat("d MMMM yyyy mm:HH");

[10:42:50] <cratuki> This is printing 24 October 2005 30:04 for me. Is there a way to get it to adjust to the right time for the next day?

[10:44:13] <bowyakka> moring peeps

[10:44:20] <TTT> roots- thanks, it works

[10:44:42] <bowyakka> anyone know of a way to reverse html encoded strings eg &gt; --> >

[10:44:56] *** lobz has joined ##java

[10:45:20] <cratuki> bowyakka: bit of a hassle, but you could use regular expressions. Would that work for you?

[10:45:34] *** mmr has quit IRC

[10:45:37] <cybereal> is it html or xml?

[10:45:46] <bowyakka> it would i just dont want to have to code up the full translaction table

[10:45:48] <bowyakka> html

[10:46:28] <cybereal> make a regexp to find the &...; and find out what's in between, make a hashmap of replacement values

[10:46:33] <cybereal> probably some code out there already

[10:46:34] <cratuki> bowyakka: translation table? Oh I see. Yeah. Ick.

[10:46:47] <bowyakka> we send the c program (broadvision) the encoding in the style of %33something etc it sends us back the encoding of &gt; style fun isn; it

[10:46:57] <bowyakka> *isn't

[10:47:18] *** amien has joined ##java

[10:47:24] <Dewi> why not just parse as XML?

[10:47:49] <bowyakka> cant be sure of the well-formed ness

[10:48:26] <cybereal> bowyakka: they are called entities

[10:48:30] <cybereal> maybe that will help you on google

[10:48:33] *** TTT has quit IRC

[10:49:14] *** enervate has quit IRC

[10:51:05] <bowyakka> that seems like a lot of work for a fairly simple concept

[10:51:44] <bowyakka> ah well its not my bug anyhow

[10:52:06] *** mohadib has quit IRC

[10:53:29] *** Lamex has quit IRC

[10:53:48] *** amien has quit IRC

[10:55:07] <cybereal> you know

[10:55:17] <cybereal> A translation table would be really simple

[10:55:49] <cybereal> just a hash of entities and their replacement value, including the & and ; in the key... iterate over the keys and .replaceAll() a bunch of times and voila :)

[10:56:46] <heanol> struts makes me sad.

[10:58:24] *** Lamex has joined ##java

[10:59:26] *** agnul has quit IRC

[11:05:16] *** makii has joined ##java

[11:05:52] *** kanopa has joined ##java

[11:05:59] *** bpalmer has quit IRC

[11:07:05] *** adante has joined ##java

[11:07:21] *** kanopa has quit IRC

[11:08:28] *** incorrect has joined ##java

[11:08:48] <incorrect> is there a log4j appender for mysql?

[11:09:20] *** Luckys has left ##java

[11:11:23] <makii> incorrect: write one :)

[11:12:09] <incorrect> thats a no then

[11:13:11] <makii> incorrect: at least i don't know one, but there might be one. in java this appender would not be specialized for mysql, but for the jdbc interface i guess

[11:13:34] <incorrect> i found a jdbc interface,

[11:14:39] <incorrect> is it possible to call a shell script?

[11:16:07] *** jwormy has joined ##java

[11:17:12] <heanol> i have an enum set.. can i get one of them based on a string or int or something?

[11:17:33] <heanol> public enum Test { FOO, BAR, BAZ }

[11:17:50] <heanol> can i somehow map them to int or string values?

[11:18:01] <heanol> without testing for each of course..

[11:19:04] <roots-> to me this indicates an enum is the wrong approach

[11:19:13] <heanol> i guess.

[11:19:28] <heanol> i'm trying to use struts actionform and i want an enum in the bean but struts doesnt handle it

[11:20:39] <cybereal> heanol: enums are never meant to leave code

[11:20:52] *** agnul has joined ##java

[11:22:18] <heanol> hrm

[11:24:46] <Boggie> are there any good online books for servlets/jsp out there along with JDBC?

[11:29:25] <roots-> enums are also not extensible

[11:29:30] <roots-> or dynamic

[11:30:58] *** Mactabilis has quit IRC

[11:30:58] <sanj> how can i configure eclipse for a new plugin?

[11:35:16] *** cratuki has quit IRC

[11:44:43] *** teralaser has joined ##java

[11:45:55] <incorrect> does nagios come with a memory checker?

[11:46:01] <incorrect> sorry wrong window

[11:47:34] *** enervate has joined ##java

[11:49:39] *** Corical has joined ##java

[11:51:10] *** Boggie has left ##java

[11:52:08] *** incorrect has quit IRC

[11:57:44] *** dobblego has joined ##java

[11:58:13] *** dibblego has quit IRC

[11:58:33] *** cybereal has quit IRC

[11:59:16] *** TPC has joined ##java

[12:00:18] <TPC> if I have a string that contains 'part1 part2 part3' separated by spaces, but part 3 may contains spaces, and I want to split it into 3 separate strings, how would I do that?

[12:00:55] <dobblego> using String.split

[12:00:58] <ricky_clarkson> Use String.split, and a little intelligence.

[12:00:59] <TPC> ok

[12:01:03] <TPC> thanks

[12:05:52] *** vate has quit IRC

[12:08:53] *** CowwoC has joined ##java

[12:09:52] <CowwoC> hi

[12:10:19] <CowwoC> When I try using private empty constructors under Hibernate I get: IllegalArgumentException: No visible constructors in class foo -- any ideas?

[12:10:40] <dobblego> make them public

[12:10:56] *** TTT has joined ##java

[12:11:01] *** Lamex has quit IRC

[12:11:22] <CowwoC> dobblego: I need them to be private

[12:11:28] <CowwoC> and Hibernate claims they are allowed to be private

[12:11:38] <CowwoC> (the docs anyway)

[12:11:45] *** CorraSan has joined ##java

[12:11:49] <dobblego> I've never heard of such thing

[12:12:03] <dobblego> every time I use Hibernate, I feel I'm forced to perform such an atrocity, so I just concede

[12:12:08] <CowwoC> :)

[12:12:27] <CowwoC> http://forums.hibernate.org/viewtopic.php?t=945912&highlight=&sid=78279e8b9e5be2d456dd9614d7028d37

[12:12:28] <dobblego> third party dependancies are the only time I concede

[12:12:30] <CowwoC> \-> read this

[12:12:47] <CowwoC> it's not me, but this guy has the same problem and he quotes the doc on it

[12:13:13] <dobblego> seems simple enough to look at the source

[12:13:35] <dobblego> I'll bet it's calling Class.getConstructors and not Class.getDeclaredConstructors

[12:13:38] <CowwoC> no way :) it's CGLib

[12:13:43] *** Corical has quit IRC

[12:13:51] *** Coff has joined ##java

[12:13:52] <CowwoC> hence bytecode manipulation, which is not simple

[12:13:57] <dobblego> right

[12:14:09] <dobblego> fugs me then

[12:14:53] <CowwoC> damnit ... http://www.hibernate.org/hib_docs/v3/reference/en/html_single/#persistent-classes-pojo-constructor

[12:14:58] <CowwoC> those idiots ..

[12:15:06] <CowwoC> "We recommend having a constructor with at least package visibility for runtime proxy generation in Hibernate."

[12:15:13] <CowwoC> recommend should have been rephrased to *require*

[12:15:14] <CowwoC> momos

[12:15:25] *** TPC has left ##java

[12:15:28] <dobblego> yesm I recall something like that myself now

[12:16:10] *** sanj has quit IRC

[12:17:53] <CowwoC> they also require an empty constructor which is utterly useless if you're doing bytecode manipulation

[12:18:19] <CowwoC> they could have easily used CGLib to change the constructor to whatever accessibility they wanted, and (b) constructed the object without a constructor

[12:18:25] *** CorraSan is now known as Corical

[12:18:30] <dobblego> you can't blame them entirely; everyone has been taught to implement and expose constructors publicly from day one

[12:18:33] <CowwoC> though I guess the latter is dependant on Sun JDKs, so .. I can see why not

[12:18:43] <dobblego> even some of the claimed experts in this channel *still* attest to its legitimacy

[12:18:48] *** Lamex has joined ##java

[12:18:58] <dobblego> it's a bit harsh to expect Hibernate developers to get it

[12:19:01] <CowwoC> dobblego: well, they claim that Hibernate works on POJOs... the fact of the matter is, they *do* impose some requirements on it

[12:19:13] <dobblego> the mass is ill-informed; singling out individuals is a little unfair

[12:19:21] <CowwoC> I wouldn't mind if they just said from day one what the requirements are, and not claim pojo

[12:19:22] <dobblego> blame the people who promoted the atrocity initially

[12:19:24] <dobblego> the Sun retards

[12:19:26] <roots-> hibernate sucks

[12:19:28] <CowwoC> heh

[12:19:30] <roots-> ojb is much nicer

[12:19:38] <CowwoC> roots-: story of my life

[12:19:43] <roots-> the overall approach of ORM sucks, but if you have to use it, use OJB instead

[12:19:57] <CowwoC> roots-: but I've investigated enough ORMs and OODBMS for my lifetime ..

[12:20:03] <roots-> i worked with OJB a lot and chekcked out hibernate

[12:22:00] <dobblego> if you survey this channel about whether or not exposing a public constructor is legitimate, and whether or not exposing a public field is legitimate; most will respond with "yes", "no" respectively; the glossy brochure says so, and they blindly accept it; the truth be known, the former is illegitimate for the exact same principles as the latter - you can't expect everyone to know it - that is the power of the glossy brochure

[12:23:12] *** dobblego is now known as dibblego

[12:23:29] *** Cow_woC has quit IRC

[12:23:44] *** CowwoC is now known as Cow_woC

[12:24:28] <ricky_clarkson> On the condition that you accept the inner/anonymous class syntax, I agree, dibblego.

[12:24:33] <ricky_clarkson> s/you/I/

[12:24:40] <dibblego> must go, seeya

[12:24:49] *** dibblego has quit IRC

[12:26:21] *** sanj has joined ##java

[12:26:59] *** Syloq has quit IRC

[12:28:20] *** Aquila_Deus has quit IRC

[12:28:20] <Coff> hi, anyone know how can i fill an SWT combo with a list of values and text ? i need label and value , but it dont implement nothing to do that

[12:29:16] <roots-> what ?

[12:29:33] <roots-> you want to set the drop down items for an swt combobox or what ?

[12:30:34] <Coff> yes , i need a combo box with a list of values and a labels to show, like 1,car - 2,bike , etc ... but i want to show only car,bike

[12:31:36] <Coff> the only thing i know to fill a combo was combo.add("text") but this dont work for my example , i cant store the value of the showed item

[12:31:51] <roots-> you have to make that mapping yourself

[12:32:07] <roots-> there is no "model" like you have in swing

[12:32:09] <ricky_clarkson> Can't you just have combo.add("1 - car")/

[12:32:17] <roots-> he wants to show only car

[12:32:28] <roots-> but he has an index, just have an array for the model-value lying around

[12:32:31] <Coff> its ugly to show the user the ID of the element

[12:33:08] <ricky_clarkson> Make a separate array.

[12:34:20] <Epesh> or make a map

[12:34:31] <roots-> mapps are good for mappings

[12:34:32] <ricky_clarkson> Yeah.

[12:34:41] <roots-> dense index based mappings work with arrays too though

[12:34:46] <roots-> dont expect much from SWT

[12:35:00] <roots-> SWT is rather minimal by design

[12:35:02] <Coff> i just have a LabelValue class

[12:35:12] <Coff> i think i can use it here

[12:36:07] *** sandstorm has joined ##java

[12:36:32] *** sandstorm is now known as sandstorm|away

[12:36:43] *** sandstorm|away is now known as sandstorm

[12:37:50] <ricky_clarkson> Sounds like a NotInventedHere reason.

[12:37:50] <sandstorm> any IDE suggestions for designing GUI/Form applications?

[12:38:00] <ricky_clarkson> sandstorm: Delphi, VB.

[12:38:24] <sandstorm> we are in channel ##java

[12:38:30] <ricky_clarkson> I recommend Java source code.

[12:38:41] <sandstorm> thanks.

[12:38:53] <Kallistor> sounds viable

[12:39:15] <ricky_clarkson> GUI designers seem to all generate code which you have to look at.

[12:39:38] <Kallistor> can be a good starting point though

[12:39:46] <sandstorm> sure but they make things easier.

[12:39:48] <Kallistor> to quickly generate a starting point

[12:40:02] <ricky_clarkson> They make things appear easier.

[12:40:34] <ricky_clarkson> But then when you want to do something the designer doesn't support, they make things seem harder instead.

[12:41:57] <sandstorm> sounds right.

[12:42:20] <ricky_clarkson> So, I repeat, VB or Delphi ;)

[12:43:36] <sandstorm> So I prefer coding in source level.

[12:44:14] <Kallistor> if you want to do it in java

[12:44:36] <sandstorm> yep.

[12:44:37] <Kallistor> and are using eclipse, you could take a look at jigloo

[12:44:58] <Kallistor> used it once, was for a very small, simple application

[12:45:02] <sandstorm> thanks, I'm on it.

[12:45:25] <Kallistor> so don't know if it's useful for your needs

[12:45:49] <Stork> if i have a class which is an EncryptedInputStream, do you think it's okay to have a method which can toggle the encryption?

[12:45:56] <Stork> or should i make a new class

[12:46:32] <Stork> like "InputStreamHandler" or something

[12:47:04] <Stork> then i wouldn't need 6-7 lines to read data from the stream fully into a byte array

[12:47:23] <ricky_clarkson> I'd probably make a new class.

[12:48:55] <Stork> alright, cool

[12:49:10] <Stork> the main reason is because i want a readFully method :)

[12:50:05] <Stork> i only need it for InputStream because the OutputStream can use the write(byte[]) method :)

[12:50:45] *** Lamex has quit IRC

[12:52:08] <roots-> you dont want readFully

[12:52:18] <roots-> you want to be able to process in a stream fashion

[12:52:29] <roots-> readFully is ok if and only if read() exists too

[12:52:53] <Stork> i can't use read because i'm using decryption

[12:53:03] <Stork> and the read method will mess up the index of my key

[12:56:33] <Stork> roots-: why don't i want readFully?

[13:01:21] <roots-> its unflexible and easily implemented by read()

[13:02:31] <Stork> but my readFully uses the read method

[13:10:51] *** Wufei|sleep is now known as Wufei|school

[13:13:59] *** TTT has quit IRC

[13:15:02] *** Job1 has joined ##java

[13:16:11] *** Beco has quit IRC

[13:17:12] <roots-> thats fins

[13:17:17] <ricky_clarkson> Why did it start raining when I was playing Metallica?

[13:17:23] <ricky_clarkson> Raining hard.

[13:17:26] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: "sed but true"

[13:17:33] <Stork> lol.

[13:17:33] <roots-> linux tunes

[13:17:37] <ricky_clarkson> Unterminated b expression.

[13:18:19] <ricky_clarkson> Hah, actually; "sed: can't find label for jump to `ut'"

[13:22:35] <ricky_clarkson> ~eminem

[13:22:36] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, I have no idea what eminem is.

[13:22:50] <ricky_clarkson> Eminem uses sid (Debian unstable).

[13:25:28] <solus> huh?

[13:26:20] <ricky_clarkson> "Try 'cid (sid) and get fucked up worse than my life is" - from My Name Is.

[13:27:52] <Stork> got that song ;o old school

[13:28:42] <Kallistor> doubt eminem knows what linux is, let alone debian :)

[13:28:50] *** joaopaulo has joined ##java

[13:28:55] <Stork> heh

[13:34:36] *** mushona has joined ##java

[13:35:12] *** Forest has joined ##java

[13:35:28] *** Forest has left ##java

[13:36:10] *** Tartaros has joined ##java

[13:38:55] <Stork> EW i had vb installed on my pc :O somehow

[13:39:54] <ricky_clarkson> 15 minutes from the heaviest rain I've seen all year to bright sunshine and blue skies.

[13:40:07] <Stork> lol :o

[13:41:37] <Kallistor> it's been pretty bad weather here for almost 2 days now ..

[13:41:45] <Stork> same here

[13:41:51] <Kallistor> heavy rain, and pretty stormy

[13:41:54] <Stork> it's sunny but still very windy

[13:42:00] <Kallistor> is that even a word ?

[13:42:07] <ricky_clarkson> Kallistor: 'that' is a word.

[13:42:22] <Stork> haha, Weird Al - Yoday

[13:42:25] <Stork> Yoda*

[13:45:25] <Stork> jesus christ it takes a bloody long time to uninstall vb :|

[13:45:33] *** dan_reeder has joined ##java

[13:45:34] <dan_reeder> hi folks

[13:45:37] <Stork> hello

[13:46:19] <dan_reeder> is there something like a dynamic list for integers in java? i tried with arraylist but i get error when i do like arraylist.add(4)

[13:46:35] <Stork> arraylist.add(new Integer(4));

[13:46:52] <Stork> ~tell dan_reeder about Collections

[13:46:53] <javabot> dan_reeder, Collections is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/collections

[13:46:56] <Epesh> iraq's constitutional referendum has passed

[13:47:09] <dan_reeder> thx Stork :)

[13:47:12] <Stork> welcome

[13:47:40] *** eeaaxx has joined ##java

[13:47:43] <ricky_clarkson> dan_reeder: You can also find primitive-specific collections as part of the jakarta commons.

[13:48:25] *** eeaaxx has quit IRC

[13:49:38] <Stork> pssht, upstage me then ;(

[13:50:22] *** GedasRx has quit IRC

[13:50:32] <Epesh> Stork: nobody can upstage anyone else bringing up jakarta commons

[13:50:46] <Stork> hmph :\

[13:50:57] <ricky_clarkson> Epesh: Do the primitive collections in jakarta commons not work?

[13:51:04] <Epesh> ricky_clarkson: of course they work

[13:51:13] <ricky_clarkson> So what's the issue?

[13:51:14] <Epesh> but they suck, much like you'd expect from jakarta commons

[13:51:23] <ricky_clarkson> How do they suck?

[13:51:24] *** Ulgar has joined ##java

[13:51:44] <Stork> fight, fight

[13:51:59] * Epesh sighs

[13:52:02] <Epesh> just use them, ricky_clarkson

[13:52:05] <Epesh> be my guest

[13:52:14] <ricky_clarkson> Epesh: I don't, never have.

[13:52:16] <Epesh> don't mind maps that have very specific corner cases as normative cases

[13:52:39] <Epesh> then how can you recommend them, ricky_clarkson?

[13:52:53] <Epesh> "I've never driven a Jaguar, but I think you should"?

[13:52:55] <Stork> does anyone know of a good OCR written in java?

[13:53:11] <Epesh> Stork: s/written in java//

[13:53:31] <Stork> i don't understand what you mean

[13:53:32] <Stork> ~ocr

[13:53:33] <javabot> Stork, I have no idea what ocr is.

[13:53:35] <ricky_clarkson> Epesh: I see their documentation, and think "this is appropriate for this.  If I ever need this, this is where I'll look.".

[13:53:36] <Stork> pssht

[13:54:01] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: Epesh is saying there is no good OCR, afaict.

[13:54:01] <Epesh> ricky_clarkson: The docs miss a lot of things.

[13:54:09] <Stork> okay, thanks

[13:54:14] <ricky_clarkson> Epesh: So they have performance problems?

[13:54:22] <Epesh> depends!

[13:55:09] <Epesh> some of the commons collections can be very fast

[13:55:20] <Epesh> esp. if you have, for example, three entries

[13:56:09] *** Coff has quit IRC

[13:58:51] *** joev has joined ##java

[14:00:19] <ricky_clarkson> Epesh: Get to the point.

[14:00:35] <Epesh> That was pretty illustrative, I thought

[14:01:37] <ricky_clarkson> Suppose you had a million entries - what's the effect compared to JSE collections?

[14:02:13] *** jenner has joined ##java

[14:02:20] <jenner> heya

[14:02:21] <Epesh> ricky_clarkson: commons collections woul blow chunks, depending on specific implementation

[14:02:32] <Epesh> if you had a MAP of a million entries, the commons maps would make you hurl :)

[14:02:42] <ricky_clarkson> jenner: Wow, the mystical Debian Developer.

[14:02:48] <ricky_clarkson> I knew there had to be one somewhere.

[14:03:10] <Stork> hello jenner

[14:03:34] <jenner> ricky_clarkson: heh, there's a whole bunch of us over at #debian-devel :)

[14:03:41] <ricky_clarkson> jenner: Were you part of the group of DDs that took over #debian for a while?

[14:03:49] <Stork> :o

[14:04:22] <jenner> ricky_clarkson: nope, to be honest, I found the whole issue somewhat ridiculous

[14:05:19] <ricky_clarkson> I missed it, I wasn't on #debian for a while (no Debian machines running atm - both in bits).

[14:05:33] <ricky_clarkson> I just saw the very start, something on debian-user about abuse in IRC.

[14:05:33] <Stork> Don't you think perl is a fugly language?

[14:05:49] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: It's a load of $_%@

[14:05:53] <Epesh> hmm, debian's sort of the jboss of linux distributions, innit

[14:06:01] <Stork> i know, it's very ugly

[14:06:12] <Stork> $cookie_jar = HTTP::Cookies->new(

[14:06:16] *** ulver has joined ##java

[14:06:17] * Stork gags

[14:06:18] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: Use awk and a2p.

[14:06:20] <jenner> ricky_clarkson: yeah, users where complaining about rudeness and lack of helpful answers in _the_ debian channel

[14:06:28] <Stork> ricky_clarkson: what're those?

[14:06:31] <Stork> ~awk

[14:06:32] <javabot> Stork, I have no idea what awk is.

[14:06:35] <Stork> ~a2p

[14:06:35] <javabot> Stork, I have no idea what a2p is.

[14:06:36] <ricky_clarkson> jenner: Have you read TheFable?

[14:06:36] <ulver> wella all!

[14:06:53] <jenner> ricky_clarkson: no, never heard of

[14:07:05] <ricky_clarkson> http://www.linuks.mine.nu/debian-faq-wiki/TheFable

[14:07:37] <Kallistor> funny

[14:07:38] <jenner> guys, is anyone familiar with display taglib (displaytag.sf.net)? It provides the possibility to define a decorator class for an object... I wonder if there's a similar, not so specific taglib which allows the same (displaytag works only for tabular data, and I need XML)

[14:07:45] <Kallistor> debian has a pretty large user base, doesn't it ?

[14:07:49] <ricky_clarkson> Yep.

[14:08:10] <Kallistor> the slackware community on freenode seems pretty active

[14:08:17] <Epesh> jenner: it'd be pretty easy to munge displaytag for that

[14:08:25] <Kallistor> while the distribution is smaller

[14:08:30] <Kallistor> err

[14:08:32] <Kallistor> user base

[14:08:39] <jenner> ricky_clarkson: heh, a neat tale, indeed :)

[14:09:14] <jenner> Epesh: I'd like to use a ready-to-go jar if possible :)

[14:09:29] <Epesh> jenner: I don't know of one

[14:09:32] <ricky_clarkson> Kallistor: We use Slax at work for teaching new Linux users and it's annoying because it doesn't have a vimrc, info pages and the delete key gives a ~ in consoles.

[14:09:42] <Epesh> I'd have to look at displaytag to work out what it's doing tha's html specific

[14:09:44] <ricky_clarkson> You know Slax?

[14:09:51] <Epesh> surprisingly, I'm one of the admins on that project, or was

[14:10:04] <jenner> Epesh: :)

[14:10:24] <Kallistor> i'm not familiar with slax

[14:10:33] <Kallistor> is it a slackware spinoff ?

[14:10:43] <ricky_clarkson> Yeah, a LiveCD.

[14:10:47] <Kallistor> ah

[14:10:49] * Epesh shudders

[14:10:50] <jenner> Epesh: I guess my reflections and servlet filter fu is still too weak to try an own taglib implementation

[14:10:53] <Kallistor> a bit like knoppix ?

[14:10:54] <ricky_clarkson> Mmm, peanut butter straight from the jar.

[14:11:00] <Epesh> actually, I have an old old old laptop I want to install linux on

[14:11:08] <Epesh> no cd, not even sure about network.

[14:11:12] * Epesh ponders

[14:11:18] <paulweb515_> ricky_clarkson: I liked the fable ... it's a tale replayed throughout cyberspace

[14:11:20] <ricky_clarkson> Kallistor: Yes, but I think it's got a few features Knoppix lacks.

[14:11:21] <axxo> 6

[14:11:22] <Epesh> jenner: tags are pretty easy

[14:11:50] <Kallistor> knoppix has its uses

[14:11:52] <ricky_clarkson> axxo: How much do you want for that 6?

[14:12:02] <axxo> 24

[14:12:08] <Kallistor> the normale edition for getting-to-know-linux-without-installing

[14:12:30] <Kallistor> the security tools distribution for security auditing

[14:13:32] <jenner> Epesh: might be, the main problem is - how do I convert items to some other, easier to handle objects using descriptive syntax (s.th. like <foo:list iterateOver="myList" decorator="org.foo.bar.myListDecorator">...)

[14:15:01] *** dan_reeder has quit IRC

[14:16:34] <ricky_clarkson> Someone remind me, do C++ references (&) stop null pointer dereferences?

[14:17:55] <axxo> ~tias

[14:17:55] <javabot> Try It And See.  You look silly asking if something will work when you can just try it and see.

[14:18:26] <Xgc> ricky_clarkson: No. The underlying pointer passed can not be null, but if it's a reference to a pointer, it (the pointer referred to) certainly can be null.

[14:18:58] <ricky_clarkson> Right, thanks.

[14:19:26] <Stork> how can i set the LookAndFeelDecorated from a Frame?

[14:19:41] <ricky_clarkson> JFrame

[14:20:04] <Stork> hm?

[14:20:12] <ricky_clarkson> Do it from a JFrame, not a Frame.

[14:20:22] <Stork> oh, okay :\

[14:20:27] <roots-> you cannot set it

[14:20:43] *** deedaw has quit IRC

[14:21:10] <roots-> it depends on the LookAndFeel capabilities

[14:21:24] <ricky_clarkson> Yeah, but you need to enable it.

[14:21:38] <roots-> do you ?

[14:21:43] <ricky_clarkson> ~javadoc JFrame.setDefaultLookAndFeelDecorated(boolean)

[14:21:44] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, please see javax.swing.JFrame.setDefaultLookAndFeelDecorated(boolean): http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/javax/swing/JFrame.html#setDefaultLookAndFeelDecorated(boolean)

[14:21:53] <Stork> okay, thanks

[14:21:56] <roots-> eg Metal LaF is not likely to be natively build into windows

[14:22:07] <roots-> is that a 1.5 method ?

[14:22:49] <ricky_clarkson> I don't think so.

[14:23:38] <Stork> so after setting it to true, how do i change the LookAndFeel ?

[14:24:49] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Stork about javadoc UIManager

[14:24:49] <javabot> Stork, please see javax.swing.UIManager: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/javax/swing/UIManager.html

[14:26:11] <Stork> thy thanks

[14:26:29] <ricky_clarkson> I thank myself? ;)

[14:27:22] <Stork> of course

[14:27:25] <Stork> it's for the best

[14:27:46] <Stork> i mean

[14:27:48] <Stork> thanks javabot

[14:27:54] <Stork> ~thanks

[14:27:54] <javabot> np

[14:28:09] <Stork> awesome

[14:28:16] <ricky_clarkson> ~you rock

[14:28:16] <javabot> http://galleries.ihateaol.co.uk/picKLE-cache/funnypics/excellent_640.jpg -- yeah!

[14:28:17] <Drone> That URL gave the following error: java.net.UnknownHostException, galleries.ihateaol.co.uk

[14:28:25] <ricky_clarkson> ~forget you rock

[14:28:26] <javabot> I forgot about you rock, ricky_clarkson.

[14:32:52] *** jenner has quit IRC

[14:34:25] *** lilo5000 has joined ##java

[14:38:24] *** chippy has joined ##java

[14:40:14] <Stork> kkkkkkk

[14:40:55] <ricky_clarkson> Stork: What's up?

[14:41:01] <Stork> everything

[14:41:23] *** Ulgar has quit IRC

[14:41:34] *** Tartaros has quit IRC

[14:41:54] <ricky_clarkson> Ugh.

[14:42:24] *** HelloWorld82 has joined ##java

[14:42:52] <Stork> Hallowed are the children of the Ori

[14:43:47] <Stork> Sorry, that was my gay friend typing

[14:44:05] <Stork> ignore it :\

[14:45:31] <ricky_clarkson> Hollowed are the tree trunks.

[14:45:56] <Uvizor> Never say my "gay friends" because it makes you gay by association... Off to work.

[14:46:04] <doc|work> o_O

[14:50:17] <solus> gay by association?

[14:51:34] <Stork> hehe

[14:52:53] * ricky_clarkson has a gf and is therefore female by association.

[14:53:38] * solus hangs here and is therefore a great programmer by association

[14:53:48] <solus> (taken directly from my CV)

[14:54:00] <Twiun> ... what, you mean like dandruff?

[14:55:55] *** apix has joined ##java

[14:57:56] *** fuso has joined ##java

[15:02:50] *** tanq has quit IRC

[15:03:00] *** PPSD has joined ##java

[15:03:00] <PPSD> hi

[15:03:46] <roots-> i wanna do some winforms coding again

[15:04:01] <ricky_clarkson> I wanna let you.

[15:04:10] <roots-> thx

[15:04:22] <PPSD> when creating an applet, shall i extend Applet or JApplet?

[15:04:28] <roots-> PPSD: depends

[15:04:44] <ricky_clarkson> PPSD: Create an application.

[15:04:51] <roots-> yeah good advise

[15:04:58] <PPSD> ricky_clarkson: ?

[15:05:03] <ricky_clarkson> ~applets suck

[15:05:08] *** tag has quit IRC

[15:05:22] <PPSD> ricky_clarkson: need something which runs in a webbrowser, no downloading etc.

[15:05:28] <PPSD> (no explicit downloading)

[15:05:42] <ricky_clarkson> Flash.

[15:06:12] <PPSD> ?

[15:06:19] <ricky_clarkson> Macromedia Flash.

[15:06:35] <PPSD> no, i need java, applet shall become a bean client

[15:07:29] <PPSD> anyway what's the difference between Applet and JApplet (no-swing and swing)

[15:08:04] <ricky_clarkson> You just answered your question.

[15:08:25] *** Yaroon has joined ##java

[15:09:31] <PPSD> is swing a matter of compatibility? or will it run on most java versions today?

[15:09:43] *** CBTCWwW has joined ##java

[15:10:18] <ricky_clarkson> Swing can run on 1.1 upwards.

[15:10:36] <ricky_clarkson> Applets suck because of browser compatibility.

[15:10:45] <PPSD> what do you mean?

[15:10:52] <PPSD> browsers' VMs ?

[15:13:16] <mheath> PPSD: I think he means what he said.

[15:13:51] <ricky_clarkson> ~swym

[15:13:51] <javabot> Say What You Mean.  It makes sense.  Hopefully.

[15:13:55] <ricky_clarkson> I follow that.

[15:14:02] <mheath> Keep in mind that the JRE only comes with plugins for netscape-based, opera, and IE browsers.

[15:14:17] <mheath> Browser compatability is limited

[15:14:37] <ricky_clarkson> And even then a lot of users won't/can't install a JRE.

[15:14:50] <mheath> Paritcularly if you run an alternative operating system, linux linux; there are dozens of browsers you can run that don't support the JRE

[15:15:12] <ricky_clarkson> That the JRE doesn't support.

[15:15:17] <PPSD> ok but if users don't install a JRE you can't deploy any java software

[15:15:22] <ricky_clarkson> The thing is, it works that way around, which is a problem.

[15:15:41] <ricky_clarkson> PPSD: With normal Java applications you can distribute a JRE yourself too.

[15:16:02] *** elshaa has joined ##java

[15:16:16] <elshaa> hi

[15:16:34] <mheath> Thats always frustrated me about Sun's JRE

[15:16:40] <PPSD> we need to create a widely available web-application, so what would you suggest?

[15:16:44] <mheath> they claim that portability is one of the primary goals of the JRE

[15:17:17] *** Stork is now known as stork

[15:17:17] <mheath> Yet, the way they designed it, it's horrible for portability, and existing support is limited to a select few situations and operating systems.

[15:17:39] <mheath> PPSD: What kind of application?

[15:17:54] <PPSD> mheat: DNA sequence comparison

[15:18:00] *** HelloWorld82 has left ##java

[15:18:07] <PPSD> mheat: a small graphical tool

[15:18:09] *** HelloWorld82 has joined ##java

[15:18:26] <HelloWorld82> was the "topic" of  this IRC-channel changed ? There was mention of where to find the pastebin before. .. it isn't where anymore

[15:19:09] <PPSD> google: pastebin

[15:19:16] <mheath> PPSD: Unfortunately, except for applets, you're rather limited to server-side processing

[15:19:17] *** Mc_Fly has joined ##java

[15:19:20] <ricky_clarkson> HelloWorld82: It's there, just a bit shorter.

[15:19:35] <mheath> PPSD: I should probably recommend JSPs or Servlets, considering that we're sitting in ##java

[15:19:48] <HelloWorld82> hello ricky_clarkson :)

[15:19:53] <ricky_clarkson> Moin.

[15:19:56] <PPSD> mheat: but this does not support any interactivity for the user

[15:20:00] <HelloWorld82> hemm . http://eugeneciurana.com is not a link to the pastebin...or ?

[15:20:11] <mheath> PPSD: sure it does.

[15:20:22] <PPSD> mheath: how?

[15:20:25] <mheath> PPSD: DHTML.

[15:20:28] <ricky_clarkson> HelloWorld82: Try it.

[15:20:29] <elshaa> I have a class named "page" with a "date" attribute. How can I call the "page" constructor with a date argument ? I mean : first = new page(_the_date_I_want_)...

[15:21:04] <PPSD> mheath: nope thats no enough we need to display real coordinates and sequence information below the cursor in the plot

[15:21:06] <ricky_clarkson> HelloWorld82: Btw, I don't know.

[15:21:07] <HelloWorld82> I went on the page. I see nothink about pastebin on the page ... (I'm using konqueror)

[15:21:18] <HelloWorld82> ah :) ok

[15:21:45] <mheath> PPSD: ......You're obviously not familiar with DHTML. You could entirely use it to do that.

[15:21:47] <KingNato> PPSD: That can be done

[15:21:57] <mheath> elshaa: yep

[15:22:11] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ricky_clarkson

[15:22:37] <PPSD> but there are megabytes of data needed to display the plot, can'T transfer that via internet...

[15:22:41] <mheath> elshaa: (By the way, it's the convention to name classes starting with a capital letter, IE, Page not page)

[15:23:14] <mheath> Assuming that you have a constructor like "Public Page(Date var)"

[15:23:15] *** sanj has quit IRC

[15:23:41] <elshaa> mheath: I do.

[15:23:43] <mheath> You could create a new Page object and using "Page myPage = new Page(myDate)"

[15:23:52] <mheath> er, -and

[15:24:04] <mheath> (Where myDate is a Date object)

[15:24:10] <elshaa> mheath: hummm, so I have to create a date object before?

[15:24:12] <elshaa> ok

[15:24:16] <mheath> elshaa: not necessarily

[15:24:23] <mheath> You could always do something like:

[15:24:31] *** PPSD has quit IRC

[15:24:32] <mheath> Page myPage = new Page(new Date(whatever));

[15:25:00] <elshaa> mheath: hum ok. I can create inside the creation of the new Page object.

[15:25:01] <elshaa> Thanks

[15:25:05] *** sanj has joined ##java

[15:25:08] <mheath> No problem

[15:25:13] * mheath leaves for school

[15:25:33] *** Mot has quit IRC

[15:25:54] *** ricky_clarkson changes topic to "Welcome! API doc: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/index.html | tutorials: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/reallybigindex.html | Don't flood; more than 2 lines: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin | no aolbonics, and that means "u"! | JavaScript is in #web.  Cheers!"

[15:25:58] *** Mot has joined ##java

[15:26:13] <bowyakka> aolbonics ?

[15:26:21] <ricky_clarkson> ~aolbonics

[15:26:21] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201

[15:26:30] <bowyakka> inst javascript also in #javascript ?

[15:27:00] <ricky_clarkson> Better in #web though, apparently.

[15:27:09] <bowyakka> ah tht my client refuses to let me type such words

[15:27:39] <bowyakka> except for ones it cant spot like *that

[15:28:20] <ricky_clarkson> Nothing's foolproof, there's always a better fool.

[15:28:47] *** ricky_clarkson sets mode: -o ricky_clarkson

[15:31:39] <bowyakka> better safe than sorry in the presence of fools

[15:33:51] <ricky_clarkson> Only sorry is possible there.

[15:34:42] * eidolon yawns.

[15:36:15] <bowyakka> cutting but from you expected

[15:36:44] *** omay has joined ##java

[15:37:53] * Epesh sighs

[15:38:38] * cheeser bows.

[15:38:45] * littlezoper coughs

[15:39:00] * Mugatu emotes

[15:39:04] <Mugatu> morning

[15:39:09] <littlezoper> :)

[15:39:20] * pr3d4t0r farts.

[15:39:20] *** hatOFF has joined ##java

[15:39:40] *** ulver has quit IRC

[15:39:53] *** sateh has joined ##java

[15:40:18] <pr3d4t0r> ~bomb Mugatu

[15:40:19] * javabot drops a humongous exploding turd on Mugatu

[15:40:48] <Mugatu> man

[15:40:56] * Mugatu wipes off *again*

[15:41:04] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: You removed the /pastebin from the topic (back now).  Did you mean to?

[15:41:10] <sateh> does anyone know a little aop framework that can do its work completely at runtime without any special compiler of jvm setting?

[15:41:14] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson:

[15:41:33] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: I didn't; it was there.

[15:41:52] <Epesh> sateh: um, I think most of them CAN now

[15:41:58] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Don't flood; more than two lines: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin

[15:41:59] <Epesh> dynaop, a few others

[15:42:13] <ricky_clarkson> I put it back.

[15:42:22] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Hrm...  OKi.

[15:42:27] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Thanks.

[15:42:35] <sateh> i'll look at dynaop

[15:43:17] <sateh> i just want to add an advice to a class in my main() without any special tools or jvm settings

[15:45:17] <littlezoper> sateh: i've never used it, but spring's AOP support is supposed to be pretty good

[15:45:48] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Weird.

[15:45:51] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: OKi, thanks.

[15:46:05] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: I just checked the logs; I thought I'd set it up :)

[15:46:31] <Goc> I know i probably deserve a RTFM, but I really can't seem to find this in JavaDoc:

[15:46:31] <Goc> When I use the GridBagLayout, for some reason, everything is centered in the panel or window. It seems that I can control everything in the GridBag, but the Grid itself is placed in the center of the Win/Panel. How do I solve this?

[15:47:50] <ricky_clarkson> Goc: Maybe your container is in the middle of another container.

[15:48:06] <ricky_clarkson> Try setting its background colour so that you can see.

[15:48:48] *** tmh has joined ##java

[15:49:48] <sateh> littlezoper, i don't see how i can use spring aop to attach an advice to a class that is not instantiated in the context

[15:50:33] <littlezoper> you may not be able to.  my AOP knowledge is EXTREMELY limited

[15:50:48] <ricky_clarkson> What's spring got do with AOP?

[15:50:50] <littlezoper> pretty limited to a cursory scan of the chapter(s?) in Spring in Action :)

[15:51:05] <littlezoper> ~tell ricky_clarkson about google

[15:51:06] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, google is the ultimate search engine (so far).  You may ask your question and gets lots of answers at http://www.google.com

[15:51:06] <littlezoper> :)

[15:51:24] <ricky_clarkson> How can it be the ultimate search engine so far?

[15:51:26] <littlezoper> same thing it has to do with hibernate, jdbc, jms, etc...

[15:51:37] <ricky_clarkson> oxymoronic.

[15:52:12] <sateh> spring aop seems to be mostly there for proxying stuff

[15:52:19] <pr3d4t0r> Damn.

[15:52:22] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack isn't here.

[15:53:48] *** omay has quit IRC

[15:55:36] *** omay has joined ##java

[15:55:51] <eidolon> pr3d4t0r: time for his daily beating?

[15:56:03] <pr3d4t0r> eidolon: No, I wanted to share something with him.

[15:57:20] <eidolon> aw.  *deflates*

[15:57:43] <pr3d4t0r> eidolon: I'm sure I can find someone else to beat around here.

[15:57:54] * eidolon hides.

[15:59:02] *** terence_ has joined ##java

[15:59:42] <StarScream> spring isn't aspect orientated is it ?

[15:59:52] * ricky_clarkson tries to poison himself, then realises that he already has a tolerance to most poisons because of fast food.

[16:00:05] * eidolon hoists a cup o joe to ricky

[16:01:03] <StarScream> ricky_clarkson: try something like snake venom....may be hard to come by deadly snakes in manchester(?) though

[16:01:12] <eidolon> so hibernate is annoying me.  when i specify a timestamp field - the database is created fine - the .java file and the hbm.xml file both say 'Calendar' for the data type, but when i try to actually update it with Calendar now = Calendar.getinstance(); myWs.setadded(now);  I get:

[16:01:13] *** b0fh_ua has joined ##java

[16:01:22] <b0fh_ua> hi there!

[16:01:29] <eidolon> 00:19:35,209 ERROR [TaskManagerBean] java.lang.ClassCastException: java.util.GregorianCalendar

[16:01:35] *** vinson has joined ##java

[16:01:37] <eidolon> i've even tried casting it to (Calendar)

[16:01:38] <pr3d4t0r>  /kick eidolon

[16:01:41] <Epesh> ewh

[16:01:43] <eidolon> i pasted one line, piss off :)

[16:01:59] * pr3d4t0r pisses off and floods the channel.

[16:02:03] <eidolon> ew

[16:02:14] <b0fh_ua> could somebody please explain, how can I use some JNDI resource (database connection), which is located on another computer?

[16:02:16] <pr3d4t0r> Man, I gotta stop drinking those 1.5 litre bottles of water before starting IRC.

[16:02:37] <b0fh_ua> I mean, do I need to place some host/port parameters in Initialcontext somehow, or do it in some another way?

[16:02:59] <cheeser> javabot: tell b0fh_ua about jndi

[16:03:00] <javabot> b0fh_ua, jndi is http://java.sun.com/products/jndi - Java Naming and Directory Interface

[16:03:04] *** wms has joined ##java

[16:03:07] <eidolon> http://pastebin.com/405254 <-- there's the code snippet

[16:03:10] *** elshaa has quit IRC

[16:03:11] <sateh> hm most aop frameworks now work with the -javaagent option of 5.0

[16:03:38] <ricky_clarkson> StarScream: We too have estate agents.

[16:03:43] <eidolon> http://pastebin.com/405256 <-- and there's the hibernate definition.

[16:03:56] <StarScream> heh

[16:03:57] <b0fh_ua> cheeser: i read the tutorial, and did not find anwer of how to get resources from remote servers :(

[16:05:06] <paulweb515_> b0fh_ua: Create the InitialContext with a properties object that contains stuff like your initial context factory and the host+port information that it would need ... usually the properties depend on the factory

[16:06:04] *** tanq has joined ##java

[16:07:02] <b0fh_ua> paulweb515_: okay, may be you have some source code to refer? what should be host and port parameters etc?

[16:07:07] <b0fh_ua> I just need quickstart

[16:07:42] <paulweb515_> http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Programming/jndi/

[16:08:28] <paulweb515_> b0fh_ua: it totally depends on your "provider"/factory ... There are code examples of a file system provider and an LDAP provider on that link

[16:08:56] *** sanj has quit IRC

[16:10:19] *** lilo5000 has quit IRC

[16:10:54] <b0fh_ua> actually my current code works like this: javax.naming.InitialContext ctx = new javax.naming.InitialContext();DataSource ds = (DataSource) ctx.lookup(URL);

[16:11:12] <b0fh_ua> so i'm totally confused how to get teh connection from remote server :(

[16:12:11] *** HelloWorld82 has left ##java

[16:12:53] *** Corical has quit IRC

[16:15:30] <joaopaulo> somebody have some example of JList that get values from a database ?

[16:15:43] <ricky_clarkson> JList and databases aren't related.

[16:16:36] *** shredstar has joined ##java

[16:16:52] <joaopaulo> i put the result of db on arrays, but im very new on it, need some example

[16:16:55] <shredstar> hello

[16:17:02] *** talin has quit IRC

[16:17:05] <shredstar> i'm using KTable.

[16:17:18] <paulweb515_> b0fh_ua: create a DataSource for the remote server, and then bind that to your context (http://www.precisejava.com/javaperf/j2ee/JDBC.htm) ... then you can look up your source and get a connection.

[16:17:23] <Yaroon> Isn't adding xmlsec-1.2.1.jar to the classpath enough to make a certain .jar run? It still complains about java.lang.noClassDefFoundError...

[16:19:15] <ricky_clarkson> You probably didn't do it right.

[16:19:22] <ricky_clarkson> What class can it not find the def of?

[16:19:33] <b0fh_ua> paulweb515_: it is located on remote server yet (i mean datasource)

[16:19:46] <b0fh_ua> it is created by novell portal

[16:19:51] <Yaroon> org/apache/xml/security/utils/HexDump

[16:20:03] <ricky_clarkson> Yaroon: How do you add the jar to the classpath?

[16:20:40] *** Charlls has joined ##java

[16:20:43] <Yaroon> I just edited it in Start->Settings->Control Panel->System->Advanced->Environment Variables.

[16:20:45] <Charlls> heyo

[16:20:55] <joaopaulo> Yaroon, i ussualy copy the .jar to my jre/lib/ext

[16:20:56] <Charlls> i'm considering two approaches for a virtual machine specification: 1 would be a single range of untyped raw memory and registers, 2 would be a range of typed memory for each type of data that must be handled natively. I dont know if these alternatives have names but i would like to know if anyone has comments about it, or can suggest me some readings that evaluate pro and cons of each alternative

[16:21:01] *** dingo001 has joined ##java

[16:21:05] <dingo001> hey all

[16:21:12] <Yaroon> C:\Program Files\Java\j2re1.4.2_03\lib\rt.jar;C:\Program Files\Java\j2re1.4.2_03

[16:21:13] <Yaroon> \lib\bcprov-jdk14-123.jar;C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.5.0_04\lib\ext\QTJava.zip;.

[16:21:18] <Yaroon> That's my classpath...

[16:21:20] <Yaroon> Seems OK, no?

[16:21:22] <dingo001> i REALLY need some help with the xml searching problem

[16:21:38] <Yaroon> Wait...

[16:21:45] <Yaroon> xmlsec aint there.

[16:22:00] <Yaroon> C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.5.0_04\lib\rt.jar;C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.5.0_04\l

[16:22:00] <Yaroon> ib\xmlsec-1.2.1.jar;C:\Program Files\Java\j2re1.4.2_03\lib\bcprov-jdk14-123.jar;

[16:22:01] <Yaroon> C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.5.0_04\lib\ext\QTJava.zip;.

[16:22:16] <Yaroon> (sorry I tried echo %CLASSPATH% in an old terminal)

[16:22:28] <Yaroon> Now it's there, but no go.

[16:22:32] <Yaroon> Bit strange.

[16:22:41] *** terence_ has quit IRC

[16:22:54] <dingo001> trying to search the xml with xpath and saxon, the xml is 20MB, loading it into the DOM and then using xpath on the dom

[16:23:10] <dingo001> am getting response times of 3-4 seconds on localhost

[16:23:33] <dingo001> need to get response times of much less than a second

[16:23:40] <dingo001> memory no issue

[16:23:47] <dingo001> any ideas

[16:23:49] <dingo001> ??

[16:23:55] <ricky_clarkson> Load less than 20MB.

[16:24:05] <Epesh> dingo001: uh... search it?

[16:24:09] <dingo001> the memory is no problem

[16:24:14] <Epesh> are you loading 20MB each time?

[16:24:30] <dingo001> i have to load the entire file in memory, like on servlet startup/init

[16:24:31] <cheeser> javabot: topicsmite Yaroon

[16:24:31] <javabot> And the wrath of /TOPIC descended with terrible fury upon Yaroon.  And all the people marvelled, saying, Behold, we too should read the /TOPIC, lest we be stricken.  And all the people read the /TOPIC, and went away edified.

[16:24:48] <Epesh> dingo001: on each invocation?

[16:24:53] <dingo001> Epesh: search it, like text search on the text elements

[16:25:05] <dingo001> load once, search every time

[16:25:17] <Epesh> dingo001: and each search takes more than 1sec?

[16:25:19] <sateh> don't use xml

[16:25:21] <Epesh> And you'er not reloading the DOM?

[16:25:21] <sateh> >:-)

[16:25:23] <dingo001> i feel my data structire is way wrong

[16:25:33] <paulweb515_> b0fh_ua: That article implied that you would use the Novell implementation of DataSource to specify the host and other information, and then bind it using your initial context ... then ask for it back and use that to get the Database connection ... I'm not familliar with databases outside of getting them from J2EE ...

[16:25:35] <dingo001> Epesh: each search takes 3-4 seconds

[16:25:43] <ricky_clarkson> dingo001: Any reason to use XML instead of a database?

[16:25:46] <dingo001> Epesh: not reloading the dom

[16:25:47] <Epesh> dingo001: sounds like your data structure is way wrong, yes

[16:26:01] <Epesh> dingo001: how are you searching it? WHat kind of xpath expression?

[16:26:01] <dingo001> ricky_clarkson: the XML and memory and all of that is a hard requirement

[16:26:17] <dingo001> say its addresses/address/name has to be searched

[16:26:34] *** joered has joined ##java

[16:26:37] <ricky_clarkson> A broken requirement.

[16:26:37] <sateh> whack it in a map

[16:26:39] <dingo001> xpath is xpath.compile(contains(.,$word)

[16:26:40] <b0fh_ua> paulweb515_: thanks :)

[16:26:50] <sateh> how many times does the xml change?

[16:26:51] <dingo001> sateh: how do i search a map?

[16:26:53] <ricky_clarkson> Requirements should be problem-specific, not solution-specific.

[16:26:59] <Epesh> dingo001: erm

[16:27:03] <dingo001> sateh: xml does not change

[16:27:08] <dingo001> Epesh: erm? sorry?

[16:27:15] <Yaroon> joaopaulo: thanks. I just copied it to ext, it works now.

[16:27:16] <sateh> well, load it once, store it in non-xml format, ditch the xml

[16:27:24] <Epesh> you're not using /addresses/address/name='Foo' or whatever the full xpath is?

[16:27:30] <ricky_clarkson> sateh: Isn't that what Dom is doing?

[16:27:35] <dingo001> sateh: i am willing to do that, can you guide me a bi here

[16:27:37] <dingo001> bit

[16:27:38] <sateh> ricky_clarkson, probably :)

[16:27:48] *** putzel has joined ##java

[16:28:31] <sateh> dingo001, what do your queries look like? exact match? partial? regex?

[16:28:42] <dingo001> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8569

[16:29:00] <dingo001> sateh: partial match anywhere in the text content

[16:29:28] <dingo001> its the data size, when I search the same trimmed down xml, its fast.. i am missing something here

[16:29:43] *** heanol has quit IRC

[16:29:48] <ricky_clarkson> Are you sure you're not loading every time, even by accident?

[16:29:49] <dingo001> sateh: no regex, plain text matching

[16:30:03] <sateh> what xpath implementation?

[16:30:06] <dingo001> ricky_clarkson: nope the init and search are very different

[16:30:09] <Epesh> dingo001: which XML engine? Have you profiled memory usage in-process?

[16:30:11] <dingo001> sateh: saxon 8.5.1

[16:30:26] <dingo001> Epesh: what is  Have you profiled memory usage in-process?

[16:30:40] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell dingo001 about profiler

[16:30:40] <javabot> dingo001, profiler is a tool to find performance bottlenecks.  jmp and ejp are gratis; optimizeit, jprofiler and jprobe cost money.  Some more are listed here: http://javafaq.mine.nu/lookup?169 .

[16:30:50] <ricky_clarkson> Or more pedantically, "it's a question".

[16:30:50] <Epesh> dingo001: have you run a profiler over the server when you request the search

[16:31:02] <dingo001> what if as sateh, i think explained, dithing the xml into an in memory map

[16:31:04] <Epesh> i.e., to watch for excessive memory use

[16:31:17] <ricky_clarkson> dingo001: DOM does that itself..

[16:31:32] <dingo001> Epesh: the memory usage is fine, i have allocated 512MB, but it does not go over 100MB

[16:31:43] <Epesh> dingo001: uh... not a valid statement for java

[16:31:45] <Epesh> try again

[16:32:00] <ricky_clarkson> dingo001: Excessive memory use can cause speed problems.

[16:32:23] <Epesh> dingo001: what server, what JIT are you using?

[16:32:44] <dingo001> Epesh: tomcat 5.latest on jdk 5

[16:32:45] <ricky_clarkson> Epesh: Are you expecting pebkac here?

[16:33:02] *** watzlaf has quit IRC

[16:33:08] <Epesh> ricky_clarkson: not entirely

[16:33:15] <Epesh> dingo001: -server or -client?

[16:33:21] <dingo001> defaults

[16:33:36] <Epesh> I don't use tomcat, so I don't know which it uses by default

[16:33:49] <Drone> That URL gave the following error: java.net.ConnectException, Connection timed out

[16:34:00] <dingo001> hey all, can we talk about parsing the xml format into a more collection-based format and then searching on it

[16:34:06] *** Peter has joined ##java

[16:34:10] <Epesh> sure

[16:34:14] <Epesh> what's te structure of the XML?

[16:34:23] <dingo001> hold on

[16:34:32] *** watzlaf has joined ##java

[16:35:04] <dingo001> look at the xml here http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8570

[16:35:07] *** b0fh_ua has left ##java

[16:35:20] <dingo001> this  will give you an idea of the base xml format

[16:35:41] <Peter> i use a specific 'command' called KBInput, how would i go about installing that function on a new java compiler?

[16:35:45] <Peter> i have the 'kbinput.java' file

[16:35:54] <Epesh> Peter: by using the classpath like you should.

[16:36:02] <dmlloyd|work> function?

[16:36:04] <dmlloyd|work> installing?

[16:36:08] <Epesh> dingo001: that'd be trivial

[16:36:13] <Peter> cant think of the word

[16:36:18] * Peter finds coffee first

[16:36:21] <dingo001> Epesh: pray tell

[16:36:35] <dingo001> Epesh: lets  say i used digester

[16:36:41] *** blackfalcon has joined ##java

[16:36:42] <dingo001> got all these in classes

[16:36:51] <Epesh> dingo001: read in blocks, basically. each property gives you an id and a se of attributes; but a map of Property objects

[16:36:52] <dingo001> would i be able to search on these objects?

[16:36:57] <Epesh> sure

[16:37:03] <dingo001> Epesh: pray tell

[16:37:11] <dingo001> brb

[16:37:13] * Epesh already did

[16:37:17] <dingo001> do not go anywhere

[16:37:26] *** terence_ has joined ##java

[16:37:52] <shredstar> My app has a bunch of splitpanes in a JTabbedPane - Where should I intercept the user's Ctrl-W, which indicates that a Tab should be closed? I don't like putting KeyListeners on anything that could ever get focus.

[16:37:54] * Epesh already did, later

[16:37:58] <Twiun> Epesh: run while you still can! :)

[16:38:04] <ricky_clarkson> Peter: I think you might need infinite coffee.

[16:38:16] *** kNb has joined ##java

[16:38:30] <shredstar> How come ants don't like coffee or diet coke?

[16:38:44] <ricky_clarkson> shredstar: addAccelerator?

[16:40:07] *** kNb has left ##java

[16:40:17] *** kNb has joined ##java

[16:40:31] *** kNb has left ##java

[16:40:38] <Peter> ricky_clarkson: nah, i just got my housemate to set it up for me ;)

[16:40:54] *** kNb has joined ##java

[16:40:56] <peery> anyone know of any "tricks" to improve the performance of Java Serialization? I've scoured the web and really haven't found anything outside of doing it manually

[16:41:00] <cyclone> I wish my housemate would make me coffee.

[16:41:01] *** kNb has left ##java

[16:41:07] <cyclone> She wont even get up at the same time.

[16:41:08] <cyclone> sheesh

[16:41:21] <ricky_clarkson> peery: There's nothing wrong with the performance.

[16:41:23] <Peter> my housemate makes great coffee AND codes java

[16:41:26] <peery> for example is there a way to tell Java not to worry about sending around all the version information when it serializes

[16:41:36] <peery> ricky_clarkson: yes... there is. It's very slow

[16:41:37] <ricky_clarkson> Peter: Good in bed too?

[16:41:41] <Peter> yes

[16:41:43] <cyclone> ricky_clarkson: lol

[16:42:26] <ricky_clarkson> peery: Serialization is supposed to send the version information.  If you don't want that, you don't want serialisation.

[16:42:33] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell peery about xstream

[16:42:33] <javabot> peery, XStream is a simple library to serialize objects to XML and back again.  It can be found at http://xstream.codehaus.org

[16:42:54] <ricky_clarkson> You're probably serialising too much anyway, if you notice this.  Consider using a database.

[16:43:01] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: the default versioning is useless though

[16:43:16] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: Irrelevant.

[16:43:16] <roots-> so for proper serialization you need your own versioning

[16:43:19] <peery> ricky_clarkson: I'm aware of that, I'm wondering if there is away to tell java to make it more light weight, for example if the version really isn't needed. Java does a lot of things to be safe which aren't always necessarily needed

[16:43:34] <ricky_clarkson> peery: Use something else.

[16:43:51] <peery> ricky_clarkson: no... I'm not serialzing too much and a database won't work to send things over the wire

[16:44:07] <ricky_clarkson> It will if both peers can access the db.

[16:44:24] <peery> I've used XML encodings... it's even slower

[16:44:40] <ricky_clarkson> Google.

[16:44:51] <ricky_clarkson> Or roll your own.

[16:45:04] <peery> ricky_clarkson: well, it's doesn't if they don't and if they do you're relaying on NFS to send the data... kinda taking a hammer to a simple problem

[16:45:20] <ricky_clarkson> ~confuse peery

[16:45:20] <javabot> yes, them is my J2ME tomorrow, peery? At least that's what the writer of kaffe said, with extra herring

[16:46:17] <peery> I've been googling with no luck

[16:46:30] <ricky_clarkson> Or roll your own.

[16:46:34] *** djib has joined ##java

[16:46:36] <peery> I can't

[16:46:38] <ricky_clarkson> At least then you'll whinge at /dev/null.

[16:46:42] <ricky_clarkson> peery: Why?

[16:46:45] <peery> Need a transparent way to do it

[16:46:52] <ricky_clarkson> So?

[16:47:15] <peery> I'm using code from another labmate who has a messenger class that can send arbitrary data over the wire

[16:47:25] <ricky_clarkson> Great.

[16:47:29] <peery> it relies on Java serialization

[16:47:39] <peery> and is sort of a black box for sending data

[16:47:48] <ricky_clarkson> It would make sense if it relied on byte[]s only.

[16:48:02] <roots-> i like serialization

[16:48:10] <roots-> after years

[16:48:28] <roots-> and you can improve performance

[16:48:28] <peery> plus the code changes enough where I don't want to constantly be updating the necessary methods, hence the need for transparency. I'm not the only one changing this code

[16:48:59] <ricky_clarkson> peery: Why is it too slow?

[16:49:00] <peery> ricky_clarkson: that would defeat the easy of using the class as it was designed.

[16:49:30] <peery> about 80% of my comm. time is going to deserialzing the objects on the receiving end

[16:49:41] <ricky_clarkson> peery: Not at all.  It could provide a convenience method that just takes an Object.

[16:49:41] <peery> that seems a bit excessive

[16:49:59] <ricky_clarkson> peery: How big an object graph is this?

[16:50:27] <peery> It's a container class holding any number of smaller objects which represent that data

[16:50:38] <ricky_clarkson> What number?

[16:50:58] <peery> in use... anywhere from 1 to 10 probably

[16:50:59] <ricky_clarkson> Or maybe this is easier to answer: How many kilobytes of data?

[16:51:14] *** bpalmer has joined ##java

[16:51:23] <peery> those object being anything from String, to Hashtables, to number Objects

[16:51:32] <peery> depending on what's being sent

[16:51:32] *** berzerka has quit IRC

[16:51:51] <roots-> Hashtables write in an optimized manner already

[16:51:56] <ricky_clarkson> Normal case: how many kilobytes?

[16:52:05] <roots-> so do HashMaps

[16:52:14] <peery> no sure of hand

[16:52:19] <ricky_clarkson> Find out.

[16:52:23] <roots-> eg the physical structure is not saved, but a custom writeObject method exists

[16:52:30] <ricky_clarkson> I expect there's more data than you expect.

[16:52:33] <roots-> to write the significant portions of the storage only

[16:52:35] <shredstar> Why do so many people hate Vector?

[16:52:45] <ricky_clarkson> ~vector arraylist

[16:52:45] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, vector arraylist is http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/javaqa/2001-06/03-qa-0622-vector.html

[16:52:47] <peery> shredstar: it's heavy weight

[16:52:53] <roots-> serialization is good saving space becuse of its build in back-referencing anyhow

[16:53:13] <ricky_clarkson> I rolled my own XML encoding and I don't notice loading time.

[16:53:24] <ricky_clarkson> And it isn't transparent, because I don't like magic.

[16:53:29] <ricky_clarkson> s/magic/reflection/

[16:53:42] <roots-> i have my own xml encoder too, but its a different use case than deefault serialization

[16:53:46] <shredstar> I found some very clean example code that uses Vector to store ~500,000 elements, and it totally runs fast on my slow computer.

[16:53:57] <roots-> into the serialization you can inject any kind of custom representation that you fully manage yourself too

[16:54:13] <roots-> see java.io.Externalizable

[16:54:34] <ricky_clarkson> shredstar: I don't think speed is a big issue there, program design is.

[16:54:54] *** osynic has joined ##java

[16:55:28] <peery> roots-: but rolling your own makes sense if you want to either have that level of control. In cases where you're trying to write black box compoenents that follow the OOP principles, there may be a need for some level of transparency

[16:55:57] <roots-> externalizable is fully integrated into dfault serialization

[16:56:11] <roots-> but the object graph is not necessarily maintained

[16:56:42] <peery> roots-: and it's not transparent. If the object representation changes, so does that portion of the code

[16:56:43] <pr3d4t0r> ::yawn::

[16:57:04] <roots-> peery: yes but serialization is NEVER transparent

[16:57:09] *** delvinj has left ##java

[16:57:12] <roots-> unless you have a fixed set of classes that never change

[16:57:20] <roots-> if that is true for you, you live in utopia

[16:57:37] <roots-> it seems transparent at a first glance, but in real life it is far from it

[16:57:43] <peery> sure it is... to the level of I dump the object on the wire and I can read it up on the other end. At worst, it's that simple

[16:57:48] <roots-> nonetheless its a nice infrastructure at times

[16:58:06] <ricky_clarkson> peery: Except when one end runs one version and the other another.

[16:58:11] <roots-> peery: iff your classes dont change it is simple as that

[16:58:14] <peery> if the object changes, then that code doesn't require updating

[16:58:16] <ricky_clarkson> Or if you save data to read back later (and later is another version).

[16:58:23] <roots-> i have serialized objects from years ago i backsupport

[16:58:32] <roots-> which have nothing to do with the current state of objects

[16:58:55] <peery> roots-: sure... in my case I'm writing a prototype and I'm the only one using any instance of the code

[16:59:18] <roots-> 80% of all software once were prototypes :>

[16:59:35] <roots-> 79% still are prototypes

[16:59:39] <peery> roots-: you're right that in providing backwards support, what I said doesn't apply

[16:59:40] <eidolon> heh

[17:00:24] <peery> roots-: I'm looking at XStream, I have a hard time believing this can be faster then native serialization

[17:00:44] *** Manny has joined ##java

[17:01:00] <bpalmer> Why do I suspect "I'm looking at X*, I have a hard time believing this can be faster than Y" is a common sentence?

[17:01:04] *** Mazon is now known as mazon

[17:01:20] <peery> bpalmer: :-) good point

[17:01:31] <ricky_clarkson> peery: It might not be, but at least you'll be able to see your extra data.

[17:02:21] <peery> bpalmer: the is XML processing... in the fast I've noticed that XML processing in Java can be very slow compared to native alternative for the very simple reason that immutable strings implies lousy performance when parsing and manupiluating XML

[17:03:00] <peery> wow... I need coffee... there's a lot of typos in that last sentense

[17:03:24] <ricky_clarkson> peery: Java has mutable strings too.

[17:03:29] <roots-> immutable strings imply lousy performance ?

[17:03:31] <roots-> thats not true

[17:03:44] <roots-> try c++ with its shared-rep std::bastring

[17:03:54] <roots-> besides that it totally fails for multithreaded apps

[17:04:03] <roots-> for multithreading immutable strings are the only practical approach

[17:04:08] <peery> roots-: yes it does. Every time you need a substring, or parse something, new string object are created

[17:04:13] <bpalmer> ricky_clarkson: oh?

[17:04:18] *** svizzero has joined ##java

[17:04:28] <roots-> peery: constants are pooled

[17:04:37] <bpalmer> I don't see why mutability would speed up XML processing

[17:04:41] <Epesh> bpalmer: it's very common

[17:04:45] <roots-> peery: you'd be surprise how few instances actually are created in a program that looks like much more are created

[17:04:46] <peery> it sucks because of the time for creating new string objects for any sub-piece of the original string

[17:05:08] <peery> roots-: those are exceptions, I'm referring to any other non-constant string

[17:05:15] *** nirvdrum has joined ##java

[17:05:18] *** Twiun has left ##java

[17:05:24] <roots-> peery: String.substring uses shared rep too

[17:05:28] <roots-> as a side node

[17:06:03] <roots-> String s = "abcd"; String t = s.substring(2);  leaves you with 2 string instances but backed by the same shared char[]

[17:06:05] <ricky_clarkson> peery: It sounds like you're wholly uneducated about Java, and completely unwilling to blame your own code.

[17:06:37] <roots-> i dont even do much java, but that is a quite basic fact

[17:06:38] <bpalmer> of course, that comes at the expense of 24 bytes of overhead for every string

[17:06:48] <Garibaldi> I think when you get to the point that you're blaming the language for problems, either you've written poor code, or you're using the wrong language to solve your problem.

[17:06:51] <bpalmer> and a potentially long-lasting wasted reference

[17:06:54] *** gelignite has joined ##java

[17:07:01] <roots-> bpalmer: yes but its not that bad

[17:07:05] <roots-> you have the same prob in c++

[17:07:10] <peery> ricky_clarkson: not so. Plus serialization in general has a lot of overhead to take care of complicated data structures. Overhead which is not necessary if you

[17:07:20] <roots-> except for stack-scope managed objects  (auto vars)

[17:07:21] <peery> you're sending simple things

[17:07:36] <ricky_clarkson> peery: How much data are you sending, in kilobytes?

[17:07:45] <roots-> there is no overhead i am aware off

[17:07:58] <peery> ricky_clarkson: probably upwards of 20KB

[17:08:01] <roots-> all that is done is to preserve object graph integrity across write/read

[17:08:17] <roots-> peery: write a test case of your serialization

[17:08:21] <ricky_clarkson> peery: How long is it taking to deserialise your 20KB?

[17:08:29] <terence_> accessinh hashset is on(1) in best case . waht about building?

[17:08:31] <roots-> could be some other objects that have the same behavior

[17:08:38] <roots-> then i might be able to contribute a tip or two

[17:09:00] <roots-> on(1) ?

[17:09:01] <peery> roots-: marshelling in general has this overhead of dealing with pointers and references. The process of which isn't needed in simple data structures. This is a problem even with any RPC library

[17:09:02] <roots-> you mean O(1)

[17:09:11] <terence_> yep

[17:09:12] *** lobz has quit IRC

[17:09:14] <roots-> it is O(1) worst case even (amortized only though)

[17:09:36] <ricky_clarkson> He's asking how expensive insertion is.

[17:09:42] <roots-> adding is O(1) too

[17:09:47] <roots-> also worst case (amortized)

[17:09:50] <terence_> worst case ? could it be even worse than o(1)

[17:10:03] <roots-> its called big O notation

[17:10:04] <bpalmer> it couldn't really be o(1)

[17:10:12] <bpalmer> that'd be really darn fast

[17:10:15] <roots-> use a capital O please guys, you make the purist inside of me shudder

[17:10:21] <terence_> that it was i meant ..

[17:10:26] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: Hey, let dibblego out!

[17:10:31] <roots-> neglecting the hashcode computation that is

[17:10:32] <bpalmer> (I am intentionally using a little o, there)

[17:10:41] <nirvdrum> roots-: There is a little-o notation too though.

[17:10:54] <MacIver> little o, is a stronger claim

[17:10:54] <roots-> amortized means that the rehashing/rebuilding of a new table is done seldom enough not to matter

[17:11:04] <terence_> however it can be worse than O(1) .. i thought that depends on the hash function and entry seed

[17:11:11] <roots-> nirvdrum: indeed, thats why i am emphasizing the big O here

[17:11:41] <terence_> searching is best case O(1), worst size of biggest hash bucket

[17:11:52] <roots-> terence_: yes the O(1) assumes a reasonable hashcode

[17:11:53] <terence_> but how about inserting?

[17:11:58] *** henning has joined ##java

[17:11:59] <roots-> and a hashcode computed in constant time

[17:12:05] <Yaroon> Is it possible to call a main() from another .jar in Java?

[17:12:06] <terence_> hmm ok

[17:12:15] <nirvdrum> roots-: Ahh, okay.  I thought you were just hung up on capitalization.

[17:12:21] <terence_> Yaroon:  uhm i would say- yes

[17:12:24] <ricky_clarkson> Yaroon: main is just a method, call it like a method.

[17:12:30] <roots-> bucket length is kept low by rehashing

[17:12:38] <roots-> building a new larger table

[17:12:43] *** osynic is now known as synic

[17:12:50] <terence_> roots-: do i have to rehash manually?

[17:13:13] <ricky_clarkson> Only in Hamburg.

[17:13:24] <terence_> ßhu?

[17:13:30] *** hatOFF has quit IRC

[17:13:38] <roots-> terence_: nope

[17:13:51] <roots-> loadFactor determines when rehashing takes place

[17:13:58] *** HelloWorld82 has joined ##java

[17:14:00] *** HelloWorld82 has left ##java

[17:14:08] <roots-> when it is reached the size of the table is multiplicatively grown

[17:14:13] <terence_> yep.. i think there ws a deafult of 0.75

[17:14:14] <roots-> and items are added again internally

[17:14:42] *** Danielle has quit IRC

[17:14:48] <ricky_clarkson> The Eclipse debugger stopped making sense.

[17:14:55] * ricky_clarkson hopes a restart fixes it.

[17:15:00] <roots-> its a big buggy in 3.1

[17:15:03] <roots-> bit

[17:15:09] <roots-> compared to 3.0*

[17:15:40] <terence_> if i have a range from 0 to half amillion int index, woud i use a bitset to set true evaluated entrys or a hash set which only keep the index which are true evaluated?

[17:16:28] <roots-> BitSet

[17:16:30] <roots-> they are fast

[17:16:45] <roots-> but depends on how sparse the true is

[17:16:57] <roots-> eg if yuo have about 50% set to true a BitSet is probably faster

[17:17:02] <terence_> yes. but the bitset also keep place for unset index (0 bits)

[17:17:03] <roots-> intuitively guessing

[17:17:12] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: It's like it's a line ahead of the line it's showing me..

[17:17:21] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: in the variables window right ?

[17:17:25] <terence_> and that will exceed cache for seraching on it .. but hash set only keeps set bits

[17:17:27] <ricky_clarkson> Yeah.

[17:17:29] <roots-> just click around there and select a few things

[17:17:30] <roots-> :>

[17:17:34] *** teralaser has quit IRC

[17:17:50] <roots-> terence_: hash is terribly unlocal in memory

[17:17:52] <ricky_clarkson> I might have an explanation, a binary jar used by one project out of sync with the source of it.

[17:18:04] <roots-> oh you mean sourcecode wise ?

[17:18:24] <ricky_clarkson> Yep.

[17:18:54] *** mohadib has joined ##java

[17:19:31] <terence_> roots-: the bitset would have about 500.00 bits but only about 100 bits are set.-. iterating all these bits is faster than only iterating 100 bits in hash set?, of course i would need create the hash set before..

[17:19:32] <jcscoobyrs> Anyone here ever written a JNDI service provider?

[17:19:45] <roots-> terence_: nope

[17:19:51] <roots-> hashset is faster when the bitset is sparse

[17:20:01] <roots-> and 100 out of 500000 is very very sparse

[17:20:13] <terence_> ok .. tx ..

[17:20:40] <terence_> 500000:1000 btw

[17:20:49] <roots-> still sparse as hell

[17:21:02] <roots-> openclipart.org is offline since a week now :(

[17:21:10] <ricky_clarkson> Woo, passes: 134 fails:0

[17:22:42] <terence_> roots-: exactly i have to match two sets, both keep max 1000 entrys, for common entrys (intersection) and return them..

[17:22:46] *** djib has quit IRC

[17:23:03] <roots-> use retainAll()

[17:23:28] <roots-> on the keysets

[17:23:39] <paulweb515_> jcscoobyrs: no, sorry.

[17:23:49] <jcscoobyrs> paulweb515_: np

[17:23:50] <terence_> roots-: the indexs are out of a range of 500.000 possible

[17:23:50] <bpalmer> terence_: a bitset will probably be using about log(n) space

[17:23:56] <mohadib> goood moening

[17:24:15] *** geli has quit IRC

[17:24:15] *** firelord has joined ##java

[17:24:26] <terence_> roots-: space does not play a role , just speed

[17:24:27] <roots-> mohadib: guten morgen

[17:24:41] <roots-> terence_: two maps with Integer,Boolean entries right ?

[17:24:49] *** tommy_h has quit IRC

[17:24:55] <terence_> roots-: but no only to search later, also for creating the structure before

[17:25:08] <roots-> map1.keySet().retainAll(map2.keySet()) computes the intersection

[17:26:21] <terence_> roots-: there are two algo iterating and return both  index entrys which met the criteria, i won't keep the ones which does not met, either i would use a bitset (0 bits)

[17:26:43] <terence_> roots-: so just int

[17:27:00] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: Do you understand that?

[17:27:10] <terence_> roots-: no bool necesarry, is it?

[17:27:16] <roots-> then use Sets

[17:27:19] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: no i don't

[17:27:22] <terence_> ricky_clarkson:  you not?

[17:27:28] <terence_> lol

[17:27:42] <terence_> sry, where di you come from USA?

[17:27:47] <terence_> ^do

[17:28:14] <ricky_clarkson> me England, him Germany.

[17:28:23] <ricky_clarkson> England 5 Germany 1

[17:28:25] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: could you please not tell anyone

[17:28:28] <ricky_clarkson> Oops, habitual.

[17:28:31] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: haha, that was a one time thing

[17:28:36] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: Why not?

[17:28:40] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: we will kick you out of the worldcup again

[17:28:47] <roots-> why not ? because of the 5:1 of course

[17:28:49] <terence_> roots-: won't tell a dns lookup?

[17:28:58] <mohadib> roots-: ;)

[17:29:00] <roots-> terence_: try it :)

[17:29:01] *** linuxfreck has joined ##java

[17:29:13] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: hell you arent even qualified not

[17:29:27] *** Sou|cutter has joined ##java

[17:29:28] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: there will be "no england at worldcup" parties coming up here in case you fail to qualify :)

[17:29:47] <ricky_clarkson> You're just scared.

[17:29:51] <roots-> when the dutch failed to qualify such parties were held all over the land

[17:29:57] <ricky_clarkson> We've got better holigans than you.

[17:30:00] <ricky_clarkson> hooligans

[17:30:03] *** mazon is now known as Mazon

[17:30:14] <roots-> "i aint no football fan, i am a german hooligan"

[17:30:32] <roots-> or the famous quote "hurra, hurra, die deutschen die sind da

[17:30:41] * ricky_clarkson wears shitty chequered clothes and tries to get Germany thrown out.

[17:30:53] <terence_> roots-: telekom?

[17:31:08] <roots-> telekom ?

[17:31:09] <ricky_clarkson> "Ja, die futbol ist sheisse, und I will now kick your arsche!".

[17:31:23] <roots-> how many times did england rightfully won the worldcup ?

[17:31:24] <ricky_clarkson> terence_: Are you using a random word generator?

[17:31:35] <roots-> 0 times, one time was based on betrayal

[17:31:58] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: Don't forget Maradona.

[17:32:00] <ricky_clarkson> Evens out.

[17:32:11] <bpalmer> when mordred stabbed the Hanoverian in the back?

[17:32:18] <terence_> ricky_clarkson:  you can compete with french intolerance

[17:32:21] <roots-> you think he did it to revenge germany ?

[17:32:25] *** joaopaulo has quit IRC

[17:32:34] <ricky_clarkson> terence_: I;m intolerant of french intolerance.

[17:32:36] <roots-> maradona is an idol already

[17:32:41] <mheath> Yeah, well, an American team always wins the Baseball world cup! ;-)

[17:32:55] <terence_> ricky_clarkson:  i wouldn't expect stgh else

[17:32:56] <ricky_clarkson> mheath: World Series, you mean?

[17:32:56] <roots-> "world" series my ass

[17:33:08] <mheath> ricky_clarkson: er, yeah. That would be it

[17:33:11] <ricky_clarkson> mheath: I believe a Canadian team has won that.

[17:33:17] <mheath> roots-: I know. hence the ";-)"

[17:33:19] * bpalmer carefully avoids mentioning the Toronto Blue Jays win in 1992

[17:33:23] <mheath> ricky_clarkson: canadians don't compete

[17:33:29] <roots-> time for a strong german lead alliance of germany, england, france and russia to reclaim the usa as a colony

[17:33:39] <terence_> afk

[17:33:41] <ricky_clarkson> And I also believe that no non-North American teams are allowed to compete.

[17:33:45] * bpalmer wonders where spain is in that

[17:33:58] <ricky_clarkson> mheath: Er, Toronto is in Canada.

[17:34:01] <mheath> roots-: I'd be there to stop you, every step of the way :)

[17:34:08] <bpalmer> in the world series? No non-Major League Baseball team is permitted to compete

[17:34:18] <roots-> bpalmer: lol :)

[17:34:19] *** TPC has joined ##java

[17:34:21] <synic> mheath: heh, you're one of the last people I'd expect to see in here.

[17:34:22] <bpalmer> and as of now there are no MLB teams not in US+Canada

[17:34:30] * cyclone sings "Where has all the Java goooneeeEEEEEEE?"

[17:34:33] <ricky_clarkson> And the Cubans win in the Olympic baseball category.

[17:34:34] *** Lamex has joined ##java

[17:34:41] <roots-> hah cuba++

[17:34:46] <TPC> I'm using netbeans, and it says that it can't find Javadoc, but I have Javadoc installed

[17:34:56] <TPC> what do I need to do so it can find it?

[17:34:59] <roots-> it could be pointed to a Jre not a jdk

[17:35:03] <Garibaldi> well, this is going nowhere

[17:35:05] <mheath> synic: Meh, I have a Java programming class

[17:35:08] <ricky_clarkson> TPC: It probably means it can't find the documentation.

[17:35:12] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: Hej.

[17:35:14] <mheath> synic: this room can be useful, sometimes.

[17:35:23] <synic> ah, that explains it.

[17:35:39] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: Maybe you know this:  why were the 49ers and some other football team playing in Mexico City about three weeks ago?  What was that about?

[17:35:44] <TPC> ricky_clarkson, but I have the package called java-sdk-docs installed, that should be all I need, right?

[17:35:51] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: I understand it was a sanctioned game.

[17:35:55] <bpalmer> pr3d4t0r: demonstrating our muscle

[17:36:05] <ricky_clarkson> TPC: Maybe you just need to tell Netbeans where that is.

[17:36:05] *** joaopaulo has joined ##java

[17:36:21] <TPC> ricky_clarkson, well.. the javadoc tool is in the path, so it should find it

[17:36:21] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: Well, they didn't sell out.  Granted, that's a difficult stadium to sell out, but still.

[17:36:26] <roots-> is mexico qualified for the worldcup ?

[17:36:32] <roots-> is blanco playing on the national team still ?

[17:36:32] <ricky_clarkson> TPC: The javadoc tool is not the documentation.

[17:36:36] <roots-> he has some real tricks

[17:36:37] <cyclone> gas is cheaper in Mexico.

[17:36:37] <mheath> TPC: java-sdk-docs is documentation for the SDK, not javadoc.

[17:36:40] <cyclone> That is why.

[17:36:56] <TPC> mheath, hmm

[17:36:56] <pr3d4t0r> cyclone: No, it's not.

[17:37:01] <pr3d4t0r> cyclone: Same price as here.

[17:37:20] <ricky_clarkson> Labour is cheaper there.

[17:37:25] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: 115,000 souls can fit in the stadium where they played.

[17:37:34] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: STFU.

[17:37:34] <TPC> well.. I do have the javadoc command-line utility

[17:37:38] <bpalmer> pr3d4t0r: They claim (NFL) football is quite popular in Mexico, so I think it was just a publicity tour. Who knows, maybe Tijuana will get a team soon

[17:37:39] <cyclone> pr3d4t0r: Heard something about some guy in Mexico willing to give so many Gallons to the US but was threatened.

[17:37:40] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: I'm really curious.

[17:37:45] <cyclone> By US leaders..

[17:37:46] <TPC> can you tell me a command to run to see if it can find any docs?

[17:37:48] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: He, he, he...

[17:37:49] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: Labour is cheaper in the US too.

[17:38:05] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: Interesting.

[17:38:17] <roots-> pr3d4t0r: hey does blanco still play on the mexico national team ?

[17:38:20] <bpalmer> Ah, here's a news story about it (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/games/2005-10-03-cardinals-niners_x.htm    ) : "The sloppy play and one-sided result in a game between two of the NFL's worst teams seemed secondary to the goodwill and international exposure of a foreign venture the league hopes to turn into an annual affair."

[17:38:22] <ricky_clarkson> TPC: The docs are just HTML pages.

[17:38:29] <pr3d4t0r> cyclone: I don't see how, given that gasoline is controlled by the state monopoly.

[17:38:40] <Logi> I don't suppose anyone here has an interactive utility for talking to smart cards on the APDU level and which runs under Windows?

[17:38:52] <Logi> you can't really get any useful software for Windows

[17:39:12] <cyclone> pr3d4t0r: That is good to know.. Just some crap from Talk Radio. I try to avoid that shit, but it sneaks into my speakers sometimes.

[17:39:22] <pr3d4t0r> cyclone: Indeed.

[17:39:35] <pr3d4t0r> cyclone: I only listen to Dr. Laura on Talk Radio.  She's a hoot.

[17:39:40] <cyclone> lol

[17:39:41] * bpalmer blinks

[17:39:57] <pr3d4t0r> cyclone: I love how she smacks the retards who call her show up.

[17:40:32] <cyclone> pr3d4t0r: I don't think I would take advice from her, but I do get a kick out of that as well.

[17:40:46] <cyclone> pr3d4t0r: The wife will listen to her every now and then.

[17:40:50] <pr3d4t0r> cyclone: Most of her advise is common sense unless you get her riled up about gays/lovers/divorces.  Even then she's been told a few people "it's not working, end it."

[17:41:13] <cyclone> haha

[17:41:13] <cyclone> nice

[17:41:16] <pr3d4t0r> cyclone: My Mum may start a show with a similar format in Mexico when she finishes her term in office next year.

[17:41:36] <cyclone> pr3d4t0r: You in Mexico now? Or in the states?

[17:41:41] <pr3d4t0r> cyclone: San Francisco.

[17:41:45] <pr3d4t0r> cyclone: World's Capital.

[17:42:16] <cyclone> pr3d4t0r: I hear they have good men loving there. ;)

[17:42:18] * cyclone ducks

[17:42:29] * pr3d4t0r fucks cyclone

[17:42:35] <pr3d4t0r> You be the judge.

[17:42:43] <synic> o_O

[17:42:43] <pr3d4t0r> *pant* *pant* *pant*

[17:42:43] <Sou|cutter> O_O

[17:42:52] <cyclone> WOOHOOOO!

[17:42:59] <cyclone> I totally got fucked by pr3d4t0r

[17:43:03] <pr3d4t0r> cyclone: Oh, wait; this is ##java, not #java.

[17:43:10] <pr3d4t0r> cyclone: Join me in Efnet.

[17:43:13] <pr3d4t0r> Sorry channel...

[17:43:13] <cyclone> haha

[17:43:15] <cyclone> good call

[17:43:15] <ThunderChicken> pr3d4t0r: g'mor... oh, I see you're busy.

[17:43:19] <pr3d4t0r> ThunderChicken!

[17:43:25] <pr3d4t0r> ThunderChicken: Hej, he was asking for it.

[17:43:33] <ThunderChicken> pr3d4t0r: Should I read back?

[17:43:46] <pr3d4t0r> ThunderChicken: No.  Avert your eyes.  It was messy.

[17:43:55] <ThunderChicken> pr3d4t0r: averted.

[17:44:09] <ThunderChicken> pr3d4t0r: anyway... you had mentioned an alternative to XML the other day, and provided a link, IIRC

[17:44:13] <pr3d4t0r> cyclone: You gotta stop wearing those miniskirts.

[17:44:14] <ThunderChicken> "BEST" or somesuch.

[17:44:19] <pr3d4t0r> ThunderChicken: JSON.

[17:44:20] <ricky_clarkson> JSON?

[17:44:39] <cyclone> pr3d4t0r: Only on warm days like today ;)

[17:44:47] <ThunderChicken> pr3d4t0r: Ah! Had the wrong acronym.

[17:44:52] <ricky_clarkson> You might also be thinking of REST, which is unrelated.

[17:45:02] *** vakYpollo has joined ##java

[17:45:09] <pr3d4t0r> ThunderChicken: REST is a good way of doing web services without a lot of gack and overhead.

[17:45:31] <pr3d4t0r> ThunderChicken: You *could* use REST with JSON and create something very powerful with very simple tools.

[17:45:38] <ThunderChicken> pr3d4t0r: :)

[17:45:56] *** ajs has joined ##java

[17:46:17] <pr3d4t0r> ThunderChicken: I'd give that a whirl before dicking with SOAP.

[17:46:37] <ajs> Hi. I'm probably asking the wrong people, but on the off chance some of you have used Apache Tomcat.. does anybody know of a way to stop it from stripping whitespace on the output XML/XHTML?

[17:46:42] <ThunderChicken> pr3d4t0r: noted. Thanks!

[17:46:50] <pr3d4t0r> I guess IMTheNachoManAFK is wondering why I silenced him.

[17:46:57] <pr3d4t0r> And he can't talk in the channel.

[17:47:17] <vakYpollo> question: swing application shows a login and using JAAS login() a subject is authentificated.  What should I do to make that Subject the active subject for the entire program? (doAs will not work.. think about swing thread)

[17:47:23] <pr3d4t0r> I guess he thought that the "no aolbonics" policy wasn't serious.

[17:47:55] <pr3d4t0r> He also thinks that I banned him; I only silenced him because he was hurting our eyeballs.

[17:48:01] <pr3d4t0r> What to do, what to do...

[17:48:10] <ricky_clarkson> Trial period.

[17:48:22] <vakYpollo> ajs: there tomcat users at #tomcat, btw.

[17:48:23] <pr3d4t0r> cheeser said to ban him outright.

[17:48:25] <pr3d4t0r> Hrm...

[17:48:32] <Sou|cutter> He's a witch! Burn him!

[17:48:33] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: You think that trial period is acceptable?

[17:48:39] <littlezoper> Sou|cutter: does he float?

[17:48:42] <pr3d4t0r> Sou|cutter: Now, I *like* that idea.

[17:48:45] <ricky_clarkson> I do.

[17:48:56] <bpalmer> littlezoper: with mantissas like that, I'd hope so!

[17:49:08] <pr3d4t0r> All in favour of temporary trial say 'aye'.

[17:49:20] <paulweb515_> ricky_clarkson: when I was younger I did ... now I sink straight to the bottom ...

[17:49:20] <pr3d4t0r> All in favour of burning him at the stake say 'yeah!

[17:49:29] <ajs> vakYpollo, cheers.

[17:49:31] <Sou|cutter> yeah!

[17:49:32] * pr3d4t0r readies to count th votes.

[17:49:43] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r

[17:49:48] <cheeser> burning who?

[17:49:53] <pr3d4t0r> cheeser: IMTheNachoManAFK

[17:49:59] * Sou|cutter is the only vote. Heh!

[17:50:04] <ricky_clarkson> Kangaroo courts result in bouncy convictions.

[17:50:04] <pr3d4t0r> cheeser: Aolbonics guy from Sunday.

[17:50:06] *** jor has joined ##java

[17:50:06] <cheeser> ah

[17:51:15] <pr3d4t0r> Do you want me to pull out Drone's logs?

[17:51:21] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoManAFK: ^^^^

[17:52:18] *** pr3d4t0r sets mode: -b %IMTheNachoManAFK!*@*

[17:52:26] *** terence_ has quit IRC

[17:52:28] * pr3d4t0r removes the gag.

[17:52:28] <ricky_clarkson> I'd rather ban mohadib.

[17:52:47] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoManAFK: b00.

[17:52:54] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoManAFK: What, the cat ate your tongue?

[17:52:56] * paulweb515_ makes beans on toast

[17:53:07] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r

[17:53:16] *** IMTheNachoManAFK is now known as IMTheNachoMan

[17:53:20] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r

[17:53:29] *** pr3d4t0r sets mode: -b %IMTheNachoManAFK!*@*

[17:53:33] *** pr3d4t0r sets mode: -b %IMTheNachoMan!*@*

[17:53:36] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r

[17:53:43] <IMTheNachoMan> thx

[17:53:44] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Hello?

[17:53:49] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: You're welcome.

[17:53:54] <ricky_clarkson> IMTheNachoMan: That includes 'thx' afaik.

[17:54:27] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: And as I said on Sunday:  cheeser is here (channel owner) and alindeman as well (Freenode honcho).  They don't have any issues regarding that particular channel policy.

[17:54:53] <Sou|cutter> I for one appreciate that policy

[17:54:58] *** kinabalu has joined ##java

[17:54:59] <pr3d4t0r> Sou|cutter: Indeed.

[17:55:20] *** Lamex has quit IRC

[17:55:33] *** gabb has joined ##java

[17:55:40] <pr3d4t0r> Sou|cutter: These parvenus come here and just hurt our collective eyeballs for no reason.

[17:55:58] <gabb> Hi, can someone tell me how to make a custom dialog modal ?

[17:56:13] <IMTheNachoMan> gabb there is a good how to on the java site

[17:56:28] <pr3d4t0r> gabb: I believe there's a showModal(); method.  Look at the Dialog or JDialog classes' API.

[17:56:30] <gabb> urgh .. nevermind

[17:56:30] <ricky_clarkson> gabb: setModal

[17:56:39] <gabb> Yes, just found it. Sorry

[17:56:44] <pr3d4t0r> gabb: No worries.

[17:57:03] * gabb kills himself for asking questions he could have answered by using eclipse autocomplete

[17:57:16] <ricky_clarkson> gabb: Read the docs, sheesh.

[17:57:28] <ricky_clarkson> Eclipse autocomplete isn't quite the same.

[17:57:29] * Sou|cutter rifles through gabb's pockets before the medics arrive

[17:57:31] <pr3d4t0r> Ah!

[17:57:43] <pr3d4t0r> The Sushi Eating HOWTO's traffic is increasing again :)

[17:57:46] <IMTheNachoMan> ok so, do i have to say Thank You, or is 'thx' ok?

[17:57:58] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Just stop making a big deal of it.

[17:58:03] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: And remember:

[17:58:04] <IMTheNachoMan> no im asking?

[17:58:05] <pr3d4t0r> ~u

[17:58:05] <javabot> pr3d4t0r, u is Dutch for "you" or an aolbonic meaning "I am stupid".

[17:58:14] *** clive_b0r has joined ##java

[17:58:31] <IMTheNachoMan> ok so then what bout your stupid hacker wording?

[17:58:35] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r

[17:58:44] *** pr3d4t0r sets mode: +b IMTheNachoMan!*@*

[17:58:57] <cheeser> buh bye?

[17:58:57] *** IMTheNachoMan was kicked by pr3d4t0r (See ya.)

[17:59:06] <cheeser> 8^)=

[17:59:12] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r

[17:59:21] <pr3d4t0r> cheeser: I guess he forgot the golden rule again.

[17:59:28] <cheeser> don't piss off an op?

[17:59:34] <mohadib> that pr3d4t0r is always right?

[17:59:41] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: No.

[17:59:46] <ricky_clarkson> Don't piss on an op. That's a good rule too.

[17:59:48] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Those with the gold, make the rules.

[17:59:55] * mohadib snikers

[18:00:08] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: And I have a little stash of gold that I got from cheeser.

[18:00:09] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: i got your gold right here baby

[18:00:13] *** {Mike} has joined ##java

[18:00:13] <_m0O> o0

[18:00:14] * cheeser points at his gold teef and nods.

[18:00:16] *** cored has joined ##java

[18:00:18] <{Mike}> can anyone recommend a good JSP ide?

[18:00:20] <mohadib> hehe

[18:00:21] <{Mike}> or good plugins for eclipse

[18:00:23] *** cored has quit IRC

[18:00:24] <_m0O> JBOSS

[18:00:26] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: . o O

[18:00:29] <mohadib> :p

[18:00:32] <gabb> Well, another question: I call the dialog with a object reference as a param - the dialog makes changes to the member variables and thats it - now how do you guys distinct between "user has pressed ok or cancel" ?

[18:00:32] <_m0O> J2EE

[18:00:49] <{Mike}> _m0O: was that to me?

[18:00:52] <_m0O> yes

[18:01:00] *** bpalmer has quit IRC

[18:01:00] <cheeser> none of those are IDEs or IDE plugins

[18:01:06] <_m0O> JBOSS IDE

[18:01:08] <_m0O> is an ide

[18:01:11] *** agnul has quit IRC

[18:01:15] <_m0O> has many stuff

[18:01:16] <cheeser> yes.  JBoss is not, though.

[18:01:25] <_m0O> and doenload many plugins from online

[18:01:35] <_m0O> which I don't really need since everythign is on the package

[18:01:39] *** lobz has joined ##java

[18:01:46] *** gverig has joined ##java

[18:02:02] <pr3d4t0r> I bet that IMTheNachoMan resets his cable modem and tries to sneak in that way.

[18:02:02] <_m0O> when you load it on your computer , you have many options which plugin to install

[18:02:17] * mohadib just offered the new office girl some side work planting *tulips* ;)

[18:02:18] <gverig> hey! Is there any memory profiling in java -Xrunhprof?

[18:02:20] *** lobz has left ##java

[18:02:29] <gabb> Anyone? :(

[18:02:42] *** pavlicek has joined ##java

[18:02:47] <pr3d4t0r> gabb: You do that in your event handler.

[18:02:56] <cheeser> javabot: tell gverig about jmp

[18:02:56] <javabot> gverig, jmp is Java Memory Profiler at http://www.khelekore.org/jmp/ - written by ernimril

[18:03:01] * dmlloyd|work tries to read something dirty from mohadib's comment, but fails

[18:03:24] <mohadib> dmlloyd|work: i told her she cant plant her two lips here anytime

[18:03:25] <pr3d4t0r> gabb: I personally like keeping a reference to the controls after I create them, i.e. my dialogs and windows have declarations such as:  private JButton  buttonOK;

[18:03:31] <gabb> Well, currently I do (IMO rather hackish): I set a public boolean member variabke to true if OK was pressed and check it from the calling class. Is that ok?

[18:03:34] <shredstar> ricky_clarkson: which cntrol do I call addAccelerator() on?

[18:03:38] <cheeser> pr3d4t0r: the nacho man is whining.

[18:03:51] <dmlloyd|work> aha! I knew mohadib was getting fired

[18:03:58] <pr3d4t0r> gabb: Then, in the event handler, I do something like if (event.getSource() == buttonOK) { /* do stuff here */ }

[18:04:05] <pr3d4t0r> cheeser: I'd say let him.

[18:04:11] <pr3d4t0r> cheeser: Your call; you're the boss.

[18:04:18] <roots-> use Actions

[18:04:33] <roots-> and Action.ACCELERATOR_KEY

[18:04:36] <mohadib> dmlloyd|work: ;)

[18:04:37] <roots-> it pays in the long run

[18:04:37] <clive_b0r> i'm using a jlabel cell renderer with a tree and a custom node extending DefaultMutableTreeNode; when i change the text and repaint/fire nodeChanged on a selection event - the new text does not reflect if not done in a thread. why is this?

[18:04:41] <gabb> pr3d4t0r, yes - but I was asking how to let the calling class know that the ok button was pressed :)

[18:04:43] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r

[18:04:50] <pr3d4t0r> gabb: Ah.

[18:04:52] <gabb> The class that initiated the dialog in the first place.

[18:04:53] <gverig> cheeser: Thanks, looking at it. I wanted some quick view though... does runhprof say anything about memory?

[18:04:57] <pr3d4t0r> gabb: You can define accessors to your dialog.

[18:05:03] <gabb> I was using a public boolean member variable, but thats ugly, no ?

[18:05:06] <roots-> clive_b0r: use SwingUtilities.invokeLater

[18:05:10] <pr3d4t0r> gabb: So you can get states/attributes to it after the fact.

[18:05:17] <pr3d4t0r> gabb: Yeah, no public variables ;)

[18:05:23] <ricky_clarkson> shredstar: the JTabbedPane?  roots- knows better.

[18:05:27] <roots-> clive_b0r: first that will fix the problem and 2nd using a new thread for swing interaction is broken per se

[18:05:33] <gabb> Hmm - ok, kinda my approach, just cleaner (data encapsulation) on your side. :)

[18:05:40] <pr3d4t0r> gabb: public void isOK(); or some such.

[18:05:47] <pr3d4t0r> gabb: Yeah.

[18:05:55] <gabb> pr3d4t0r, thanks, really appreciated

[18:06:02] <roots-> shredstar: i recommend you use actions

[18:06:09] <roots-> you can create a JButton from an Action

[18:06:12] *** pr3d4t0r sets mode: -b IMTheNachoMan!*@*

[18:06:19] <roots-> and you can create a JMenuItem fro the same action

[18:06:24] <roots-> you can bind the action to a keystroke

[18:06:33] <roots-> you get a lot of code reuse

[18:06:37] <roots-> you have actionmaps for managing them

[18:06:59] *** IMTheNachoMan has joined ##java

[18:07:06] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: FINE WORK

[18:07:08] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Stop taunting me.

[18:07:15] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r i just had asked a question

[18:07:21] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r i really would like to talk bout it

[18:08:07] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: OKi, here it goes:  I've been pr3d4t0r for over 20 years.  A lot of people know me that way for historical reasons.  Even my business correspondence and public engagements quote that /nick.

[18:08:23] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: So I can't really afford to change it; too many people know me that way.

[18:08:33] <IMTheNachoMan> can i do this privatly dont think its appropriate forthis channel

[18:08:38] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: javainaction.techtarget.com/html/det_speakers.htm#Ciurana

[18:08:47] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: No, I'm done with the private thing.

[18:08:50] <IMTheNachoMan> and i have been talking like that for 10 years thats how people know its me, i cant afford to change that

[18:08:58] <dmlloyd|work> heh

[18:09:02] <IMTheNachoMan> and im bieng seriuos

[18:09:03] <dmlloyd|work> taht's *exactly* the same thing

[18:09:08] <gabb> lol ?

[18:09:12] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Well, too bad.  You know the rules.

[18:09:16] <clive_b0r> roots-: i tried that; and it works to set the text. But it doesn't when setting the text back to its original text. What i'm trying to achieve is a 'loading...' notification while loading children nodes.

[18:09:26] <gabb> A name/nick and the way you act and talk are definetly not the same thing - at least for me.

[18:09:26] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: And ricky_clarkson was kind enough to put that in the /topic too.

[18:09:28] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: call me a plumber ... PLEASE! :)

[18:09:34] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: w00t!

[18:09:49] <roots-> clive_b0r: can you provide a test case ?

[18:09:53] <dmlloyd|work> the fact of the matter is, the opers make the rules, and if you want to talk in their channel, you follow the rules, regardless of what they do.  That's life.

[18:10:17] <IMTheNachoMan> the point is, something you have been doing for a long time overrides what i have been doing for a long time how?

[18:10:22] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: Did you like my topic?

[18:10:26] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Lovely.

[18:10:30] <dmlloyd|work> IMTheNachoMan: because he's an oper.

[18:10:35] <dmlloyd|work> that's all that matters.

[18:10:52] <IMTheNachoMan> i remember reading that on freenodes ops shouldnt get special benifits

[18:10:52] *** Tubbi3 has joined ##java

[18:10:59] <dmlloyd|work> it's the way things are in a dictatorship.  If you think you can stage a revolution, go for it.  But realize you'll probably get shot.

[18:11:00] <IMTheNachoMan> anwya

[18:11:01] <roots-> clive_b0r: using TreeSelectionListener right ?

[18:11:02] <IMTheNachoMan> question

[18:11:02] <pr3d4t0r> dmlloyd|work: Well, the other thing that matters is that nobody else in the channel is speaking like a 13 year old girl on AIM.

[18:11:03] <IMTheNachoMan> i give up

[18:11:14] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r so becuase nobody else does i cant?

[18:11:16] <dmlloyd|work> atta boy

[18:11:18] <IMTheNachoMan> no forget it

[18:11:20] <IMTheNachoMan> one second

[18:11:23] * pr3d4t0r eyes IMTheNachoMan

[18:11:29] <IMTheNachoMan> i gota write a chat program but cant figure one thing out

[18:11:35] <clive_b0r> roots-: yes

[18:11:38] * pr3d4t0r sharpens his talons

[18:11:48] <ricky_clarkson> IMTheNachoMan: We prefer to read English.  I personally wouldn't kick you for that unless I thought you were doing it on purpose.

[18:12:00] <nirvdrum> hi all, a/s/l?

[18:12:02] <IMTheNachoMan> ricky_clarkson im not, its just second nature to me now

[18:12:04] <IMTheNachoMan> i have never done that

[18:12:04] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: He was being an asshat on purpose.  Look at Sunday's Drone log.

[18:12:09] *** {Mike} has left ##java

[18:12:13] <IMTheNachoMan> i have to think about it now

[18:12:35] <clive_b0r> roots-: i can provide a test case; just need to write a simple one quick

[18:12:37] <IMTheNachoMan> i mean its not like its pissiing people off but i give up, life really is to short for all this nonesense

[18:12:40] <dmlloyd|work> speaking and writing clearly and correctly is a handy skill if you ever want a job

[18:12:41] <peery> ricky_clarkson: okay... got some numbers for you. Serializing 84637 bytes take 1.21 ms and reading that up take 1.79 ms

[18:12:48] <IMTheNachoMan> i have a good job

[18:12:49] <IMTheNachoMan> a great job

[18:13:02] <dmlloyd|work> congrats

[18:13:03] <peery> that's not fast for serializing

[18:13:11] <IMTheNachoMan> the server is gonna be running on a web server, idely the client will be an http://chatroom   (its all on a lan)  and the app will load up

[18:13:12] <Drone> That URL gave the following error: java.net.UnknownHostException, chatroom

[18:13:32] <IMTheNachoMan> so since the client app will connect to lo (127.0.0.1) will the server understand the multiple instances?

[18:13:37] <IMTheNachoMan> dont know if im explaining correctly

[18:14:15] <IMTheNachoMan> the client will be a java applet

[18:14:34] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: try to rephrase your question

[18:14:43] <mohadib> it does not make a lot of sense as is

[18:15:03] <IMTheNachoMan> hurmph

[18:15:04] *** tanq has quit IRC

[18:15:04] <IMTheNachoMan> let me think

[18:15:06] *** shredstar has quit IRC

[18:15:14] *** FreemaniaX has joined ##java

[18:15:18] <mohadib> but 127.0.0.1 is just like any other ip

[18:15:20] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r

[18:15:39] <mohadib> a server listening on lo can accept multiple connections like a server listening on any other port

[18:15:45] <mohadib> if that is wha your are asking

[18:15:47] <IMTheNachoMan> but

[18:15:53] <IMTheNachoMan> will it understand that they are all seperate instantces

[18:15:57] <mohadib> yes

[18:15:58] *** paulproteus has joined ##java

[18:16:01] <IMTheNachoMan> meaning if i send a message to one instance

[18:16:04] <IMTheNachoMan> only that one will get it?

[18:16:07] <mohadib> you make a new thread for each connection

[18:16:23] <IMTheNachoMan> yeah ofcourse

[18:16:23] <mohadib> the thread gets its own socket to talk to the client on

[18:16:35] <mohadib> so how would you get the mixed uup?

[18:17:01] <paulproteus> I seem to be having some very basic trouble.  I have a file called Example.java.  I've compiled it successfully using "javac Example.java".  But when I run "java Example", I get: "Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Example"

[18:17:28] <paulproteus> Is there some logical explanation for this?

[18:17:30] <IMTheNachoMan> well i was just a bit confused, i thoght it worked like that but didnt know

[18:17:47] <IMTheNachoMan> what is the main class in Example.java ?

[18:17:58] <mohadib> IMTheNachoMan: tias

[18:18:05] <mohadib> start telnet or ssh

[18:18:11] <mohadib> and ssh to 127.0.0.1

[18:18:13] <mohadib> twice

[18:18:19] <Drone> View yow's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8571

[18:18:28] <paulproteus> Oh, that's my post actually.

[18:19:07] <paulproteus> That's Example.java.  I'm confident I have CLASSPATH set correctly because it compiles.

[18:19:27] <cheeser> do you give java a classpath when you try to run it?

[18:20:37] <paulproteus> paulproteus at renaissance:~/oose-project/branches/learn-httpunit/httpunit-1 dot 6.1/examples$ echo $CLASSPATH

[18:20:37] <paulproteus> /home/paulproteus/oose-project/trunk/foreign-jars/xmlParserAPIs.jar:/home/paulproteus/oose-project/trunk/foreign-jars/xercesImpl.jar:/home/paulproteus/oose-project/trunk/foreign-jars/Tidy.jar:/home/paulproteus/oose-project/trunk/foreign-jars/servlet.jar:/home/paulproteus/oose-project/trunk/foreign-jars/nekohtml.jar:/home/paulproteus/oose-project/trunk/foreign-jars/junit.jar:/home/paulproteus/oose-project/trunk/foreign-jars/j

[18:21:11] * pr3d4t0r puts on some Visine.

[18:21:33] <dmlloyd|work> aaaaiiii

[18:22:11] <IMTheNachoMan> paulproteus hey

[18:22:23] <IMTheNachoMan> paulproteus stupid question, check to see if there is a Example.class file

[18:22:35] <paulproteus> Yup, there is.

[18:22:39] <paulproteus> Should I add "." to the classpath?

[18:22:41] <pr3d4t0r> dmlloyd|work: It is *one* line :)

[18:22:41] * paulproteus tries that

[18:22:49] <pr3d4t0r> dmlloyd|work: It just happens to be the mother of all lines :)

[18:22:52] *** doc|work has quit IRC

[18:23:02] <IMTheNachoMan> paulproteus yeah ur classpath is not right

[18:23:08] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r

[18:23:10] <paulproteus> IMTheNachoMan: Yeah, after adding "." it works.

[18:23:10] *** IMTheNachoMan was kicked by pr3d4t0r (pr3d4t0r)

[18:23:12] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r

[18:23:16] <pr3d4t0r> He, he, he...

[18:23:16] *** IMTheNachoMan has joined ##java

[18:23:18] <IMTheNachoMan> sorry

[18:23:22] <mohadib> heh

[18:23:31] <cheeser> 8^)=

[18:23:42] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: It seems like I'll have to get Pavlovian on you.

[18:23:48] <IMTheNachoMan> its like tryin to stop smoking

[18:23:58] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r its gonna be hard thing to stop so your gonna have to give me time

[18:24:07] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: No, I don't have to give you time.

[18:24:12] <IMTheNachoMan> sigh

[18:24:14] <IMTheNachoMan> ok moving on

[18:24:18] <IMTheNachoMan> another question i had

[18:24:34] <IMTheNachoMan> now i know i can use jeditorpane for styled text

[18:24:39] <IMTheNachoMan> however, i want to do this in a jtable

[18:25:07] <IMTheNachoMan> i mean i could

[18:25:23] <IMTheNachoMan> in each cell have a jeditorpane but that seems useless

[18:25:29] <roots-> indeed

[18:25:31] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: FYI - I believe that you can confibure mIRC to substitute character sequences on the fly.

[18:25:34] <roots-> for html ?

[18:25:42] <roots-> IMTheNachoMan: or your own styled text stuff ?

[18:25:44] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Configure it so that "u" gets converted to "you", for example.

[18:25:56] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: That way we'll stop the insanity.

[18:25:57] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r only for this channel? can it be configured so it only does that for this channel cause i dont want it in other channels

[18:26:06] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: I don't know.

[18:26:13] <IMTheNachoMan> roots- ?

[18:26:13] *** ajs has left ##java

[18:26:32] <IMTheNachoMan> so each cell in a jtable can have indivdual styled text, like some words bold some larger, etc....

[18:26:39] <IMTheNachoMan> can a cell in jtable render HTML

[18:26:41] <IMTheNachoMan> i wonder

[18:26:46] * pr3d4t0r wanders off.

[18:27:00] * IMTheNachoMan muffles yah!

[18:27:01] <IMTheNachoMan> JOKING

[18:29:25] *** Tartaros has joined ##java

[18:29:26] <Cow_woC> my kidneys are killing me

[18:29:30] <IMTheNachoMan> guess nobody here knows, il come back later and check, thanks all, peace

[18:29:55] *** Mc_Fly has quit IRC

[18:29:58] <Cow_woC> peace is overrated, nuke the whales!

[18:30:06] <roots-> IMTheNachoMan: hell even JLabel's can render html

[18:30:25] <roots-> just put "<html><body><h1>stuff</h1></body></html>" as a value in there

[18:31:03] <mohadib> Cow_woC: quit drinking so much

[18:31:04] <IMTheNachoMan> but can a cell in a jtable

[18:31:17] <mohadib> Cow_woC: nuke ghey whales for jesus

[18:31:23] <nmx> IMTheNachoMan: tias

[18:31:28] <IMTheNachoMan> cant right now

[18:31:29] <IMTheNachoMan> heh

[18:31:36] <IMTheNachoMan> java wont install

[18:31:40] <IMTheNachoMan> workin on fixin that now

[18:31:44] <IMTheNachoMan> but thought someone in here might know

[18:31:48] <IMTheNachoMan> il check later i suppose

[18:31:49] <IMTheNachoMan> peace guys

[18:31:53] *** fandeholly has joined ##java

[18:31:57] <roots-> the defaultcellrenderer is what ?

[18:32:02] <nmx> ding ding ding

[18:32:05] <roots-> a JLabel

[18:32:09] <roots-> anyone home mcfly ?

[18:32:12] <mohadib> heh

[18:32:13] <clive_b0r> roots-: i have got an example frame with the tree now

[18:32:19] <nmx> roots- wins a prize

[18:32:23] <mohadib> !seen Mc_Fly

[18:32:25] <Drone> Mc_Fly (Mc_Fly!i=McFly at 83 dot 72.60.46.ip.tele2adsl.dk) was last seen in ##java on Tue 25 Oct 2005 00:23 GMT, saying 'ricky_clarkson: looks better... testing'.

[18:33:52] <dmlloyd|work> !seen dibblego

[18:34:07] <Drone> dibblego (dibblego!n=not at dsl-202-173-178-172 dot qld.westnet.com.au) was last seen in ##java on Tue 25 Oct 2005 10:23 GMT, saying 'must go, seeya'.

[18:34:07] <dmlloyd|work> ah

[18:34:10] <littlezoper> !seen Amanda Hugginkiss

[18:34:13] <Drone> I've never seen amanda hugginkiss talk in ##java.

[18:34:20] *** TPC has left ##java

[18:34:37] <dmlloyd|work> time zones suck

[18:34:43] <dmlloyd|work> we should just have 26-hour days

[18:34:43] *** cm_patric has joined ##java

[18:34:48] <dmlloyd|work> universal time

[18:34:48] <nmx> hey everybody, i need amanda hugginkiss

[18:34:54] <mohadib> heh

[18:34:58] <nmx> come on can't anybody find me amanda hugginkiss?

[18:35:06] <mohadib> javabot: nmx++

[18:35:07] <javabot> nmx has a karma level of 3, mohadib

[18:35:37] *** teralaser has joined ##java

[18:36:17] <dmlloyd|work> distributed object programming is dumb

[18:36:31] <dmlloyd|work> some abstractions cause more harm than good

[18:36:50] <dmlloyd|work> I'll meditate on that while eating lunch

[18:37:08] <roots-> indeed

[18:37:17] <roots-> pretending something remote is local is foolish

[18:37:35] <roots-> it inflicted more cost worldwide than anything else

[18:37:50] <Drone> View clive_b0r's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8572

[18:38:39] <mohadib> http://www.stickergiant.com/Merchant2/imgs/450/pb4687_450.jpeg

[18:39:16] <paulproteus> Thanks, all.

[18:39:17] *** paulproteus has left ##java

[18:39:47] <roots-> clive_b0r: ouch

[18:39:53] <roots-> you dont need to set a custom content pane

[18:40:02] <roots-> the default one is a BorderLayout JPanel

[18:40:08] <roots-> you could just use that one in this specific case

[18:41:06] <roots-> clive_b0r: now what do you want to do again ?

[18:43:01] <clive_b0r> roots-: i just used eclipse visual editor; it done it like that. The tree selection listener is at the bottom of the class; and it shows how the loading text only works in a thread

[18:43:23] *** Mot has quit IRC

[18:43:30] <roots-> well its not a thread

[18:43:41] <roots-> making a Runnable and invoking .run on it is a no-op basically

[18:43:49] <roots-> ah sorry

[18:43:50] <roots-> on the bottom

[18:44:01] *** kanopa has joined ##java

[18:44:04] <roots-> sorry

[18:44:04] <vakYpollo> question: swing application shows a login and using JAAS login() a subject is authentificated.  What should I do to make that Subject the active subject for the entire program? (doAs will not work.. think about swing thread)

[18:44:31] *** Dandre has joined ##java

[18:44:38] <Dandre> Hello all,

[18:45:06] <clive_b0r> roots-: no-prob. just need to un-comment the thread one to see it work

[18:45:31] <Dandre> I'd like to have a method like JTextArea.append but for JTextPane. Is there any idea?

[18:46:10] <ernimril> Dandre: depends on what Document you have...

[18:46:32] <ernimril> Dandre: append to a html-document does what? append after the </html>?

[18:46:33] <Dandre> html text

[18:46:45] <dmlloyd|work> maybe it's just coincidence, but so far today I've seen not one but *two* people from our VB.net team who were unable to operate the microwave oven in the breakroom

[18:47:10] <cyclone> dmlloyd|work:  It's tuesday.. give em time.

[18:47:17] <ernimril> dmlloyd|work: they are just demonstrating their technical skills...

[18:47:21] <Dandre> ernimril: No before the </html>

[18:47:28] <Drone> View roots's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8573

[18:47:33] *** Tirsleep is now known as Tirlas

[18:47:34] <ernimril> Dandre: what about </body>?

[18:47:39] <roots-> clive_b0r: using a thread like that in swing is DEAD wrong

[18:47:52] <ernimril> Dandre: as you see it is not trivial, you will probably have to update the Document manually

[18:47:58] <roots-> ernimril: it still works but it ends up with wrong text

[18:48:14] <Dandre> Ok ernimril

[18:48:15] <ernimril> roots-: it does not do what you waht...

[18:48:24] <ernimril> s/waht/want/

[18:48:35] <roots-> textpane.getDocument().insertString(textpane.getDocument().getLength(), "test", null); will append in general

[18:48:48] <roots-> clive_b0r: i submitted a fix

[18:48:56] <roots-> ~edt

[18:48:56] <javabot> roots-, edt is Event Dispatch Thread, the thread that drives the swing gui. See http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/misc/threads.html for a tutorial on swing and threads

[18:49:02] <ernimril> roots-: yes, but for html you really want to do an insert

[18:49:05] <roots-> clive_b0r: and you really should read the above url

[18:49:18] <roots-> indeed, infact you want a check out HTMLDocoument

[18:49:27] <ernimril> roots-: for xml in general you are almost always doing insert when you "append"

[18:49:42] <nmx> the eclipse visual editor doesn't follow the swing guidelines

[18:50:01] <Dandre> The problem is that I have a class tha use a textarea and append plain text to it. I'd like to switch to JTextPane to have some basic formatting functionnality

[18:50:03] <ernimril> nmx: eclipse uses swt not swing

[18:50:10] <roots-> htmlDocument.getElement("body")

[18:50:13] <nmx> in terms of putting all the swing component-modifying code in the EDT

[18:50:58] <nmx> ernimril: i'm talking about the code it produces, not eclipse itself

[18:51:01] <roots-> nmx: that code that clive_bor initially gave was no standard anyhow

[18:51:06] <roots-> unreasonably non-standard imho

[18:51:18] <roots-> clive_b0r: anyhow, the fix i gave is correct in terms of obeying the threading contract with swing

[18:51:21] <ernimril> nmx: ok...

[18:51:38] <roots-> clive_b0r: note that all changes you make to any datastructure inside the thread must happen with invokeLater as well

[18:51:40] <nmx> roots-: oh i'm sure, i was just commenting since the eclipse visual editor was mentioned

[18:51:51] <roots-> yeah it sucked

[18:51:58] <roots-> private JTree jTree = null;

[18:52:01] <roots-> now it starts right here

[18:52:06] <nmx> haha

[18:52:10] <roots-> thats an instance field initialized to zero

[18:52:12] <Dandre> Thanx roots- I will try

[18:52:16] <roots-> = null there adds nonsense bytecode

[18:52:25] <roots-> it really does, it is not stripped away by javac

[18:52:32] <nmx> does it really?

[18:52:35] <nmx> javac should be smarter

[18:52:35] <roots-> yes it does

[18:52:38] <roots-> nope

[18:52:40] <nmx> well, the programmer should be smarter :-P

[18:52:44] <roots-> the programmer shuold be smarter :)

[18:52:47] <nmx> zing

[18:53:02] <roots-> i mean the sun java cert is really stupid, worthless, dead easy and a joke

[18:53:08] <roots-> but some folks should definately take it

[18:53:14] <nmx> heh.

[18:53:16] <roots-> so they know at least some basics

[18:53:23] <nmx> so why does it add nonsense bytecode anyway?

[18:53:43] <Epesh> it's not nonsense

[18:53:44] <roots-> because the field is initialized to null

[18:53:47] <roots-> guaranteed

[18:53:47] <IMTheNachoMan> doesnt java have some classes to make chat programes easier

[18:53:57] <Epesh> =null can be useful to validate that the var has been assigned

[18:53:58] <roots-> to be, overriding null with null is nonsense to me frankly

[18:54:03] <IMTheNachoMan> Topic... something

[18:54:04] <roots-> nope

[18:54:05] <nmx> i know that fields are assigned to null

[18:54:07] <roots-> talking about instance fields

[18:54:24] <nmx> so my question is why wouldn't the compiler just strip out a useless assignment

[18:54:24] <roots-> it is null by default, numerics are 0 and booleans false

[18:54:40] <roots-> nmx: oh i dont know, there might be a reason for that i am not aware off though

[18:54:49] <nmx> roots-: yeah that was what i was wondering

[18:54:51] <roots-> on a volatile it might matter i dunno

[18:55:42] *** giupo has joined ##java

[18:56:10] <roots-> anyhow the bytecode is added, it sucks

[18:56:15] <nmx> heh

[18:56:16] *** apix has quit IRC

[18:56:36] *** FaeLLe has joined ##java

[18:56:37] <roots-> you might as well do

[18:56:40] <gverig> Epesh: but what's the point? how is =null different (from programmer's or from JVM standpoint) from just a declared field?

[18:57:03] *** Chmmr has quit IRC

[18:57:38] *** kriger has joined ##java

[18:57:57] <Epesh> gverig: convenience. I'm revising my position.

[18:58:02] <kriger> hi,how do i convert a string into binary in java?

[18:58:25] <gverig> kriger: define "binary"

[18:58:41] <FaeLLe> string is a binary.... just in memory

[18:58:45] <roots-> getBytes("UTF-8")

[18:58:47] <roots-> for example

[18:58:54] <dmlloyd|work> gverig: binary (n.) 1. The answer to my homework

[18:58:54] <roots-> dont ever use getBytes() (no encoding)

[18:59:04] <clive_b0r> roots-: thanks for the help; it worked

[18:59:13] <kriger> gverig:for example hello to binary (0000010)?

[18:59:18] <roots-> clive_b0r: np

[18:59:23] <IMTheNachoMan> kriger how did u convert that?

[18:59:29] <IMTheNachoMan> i mean give a working example

[18:59:36] <IMTheNachoMan> like do u mean the ascii code for each char

[18:59:42] <kriger> yes

[18:59:43] <dmlloyd|work> kriger: you mean a textual representation of the binary value of the ascii-encoded numbers that make up the string?

[18:59:46] <IMTheNachoMan> or maybe the integer hash converted to binary

[18:59:52] *** clive_b0r has left ##java

[19:00:02] <dmlloyd|work> kriger: it helps to be concise

[19:00:08] <roots-> Integer.toBinaryString

[19:00:11] <gverig> kriger: You can serialize it. You can convert it using an encoding. You can probably do something else. You can use it as is- it is already binary

[19:00:23] <dmlloyd|work> he means a textual representation of the binary value of the ascii-encoded numbers that make up the string?

[19:00:26] <dmlloyd|work> .

[19:00:27] <kriger> roots-:thanx a bunch

[19:00:35] <kriger> thanks everyone

[19:00:38] <IMTheNachoMan> roots- that converts 10 to "1010" right?

[19:00:49] <Terr1> How do you get the years months, and from a month and year find out how many days there are and so on?

[19:01:09] <dmlloyd|work> Terr1: use Calendar, and prepare for agony.  Or check out joda

[19:01:10] <roots-> IMTheNachoMan: it returns a string like that yeah

[19:01:13] <gverig> ~roots-++

[19:01:14] <javabot> roots- has a karma level of 23, gverig

[19:01:26] <roots-> Calendar is cool

[19:01:30] <dmlloyd|work> yuck

[19:01:32] <roots-> except for the API :>

[19:01:32] <gverig> roots-: I don't know how you guessed what he needed...

[19:01:36] <dmlloyd|work> heh

[19:01:55] <gverig> roots-: I will take my karma point back! Calendar sucks!

[19:02:04] <roots-> its cool

[19:02:12] <dmlloyd|work> joda is better, but still not great

[19:02:16] <roots-> only confusing part is  getMaximum and getActualMaximum

[19:02:20] <roots-> (and minimum)

[19:02:30] <gverig> roots-: Do you mean the notion of 3X days a month and 12 months? Yeah, that's kinda nice.

[19:03:18] <gverig> roots-: Calendar is a monstrosity and just added confusion. Pretty worthless. joda is much better

[19:03:26] <roots-> joda much better is

[19:03:34] *** Dandre has quit IRC

[19:03:40] <roots-> like the yedi master speak you should

[19:03:43] *** ulver has joined ##java

[19:03:43] <gverig> truth you are telling

[19:03:52] <IMTheNachoMan> what does he mean years months and months years?

[19:05:07] <FaeLLe> IMTheNachoMan: formatting ?

[19:05:22] <IMTheNachoMan> ah

[19:05:30] <FaeLLe> im guessing

[19:05:54] <roots-> ok i am off for today

[19:05:58] <roots-> cu tomorrow guys

[19:06:26] <IMTheNachoMan> roots- dont use aolbionics pr3d4t0r will get mad

[19:07:25] *** kanopa has quit IRC

[19:07:25] <FaeLLe> http://rapidshare.de/files/6747333/Concurrency_Utilities_in_JDK_Software_Version_1.5_-_Multithreading_Made_Simpler.pdf.html

[19:09:49] <IMTheNachoMan> ~joda

[19:09:49] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, joda is an excellent date/time implementation for Java.  http://joda-time.sourceforge.net

[19:12:26] *** Tubbi3 has quit IRC

[19:12:50] <gverig> The only thing I don't like about joda is that they changed the API from .9 to 1.0 completely and we had some ***ing early adopters and now we can't upgrade to newer versions because it would involve changing too much crap.

[19:13:39] *** giupo has quit IRC

[19:18:23] *** Coffman has quit IRC

[19:21:09] <mohadib> how can get eclipse to show me the ctor parameters for an object?

[19:23:16] *** fandeholly has quit IRC

[19:23:27] <axxo> ctrl+space?

[19:25:06] <Olathe> Is there a way, in a class, to handle calls to methods that aren't defined ?

[19:25:28] <axxo> suicide?

[19:26:41] *** Sancezz has joined ##java

[19:27:00] <ernimril> Olathe: you can install a Proxy and check if the method exists...

[19:27:15] <ernimril> Olathe: but you do not want to do that for very many objects

[19:30:09] <Olathe> Does Java require specifying which methods a Proxy accepts ?

[19:30:31] *** t35t0r has joined ##java

[19:30:59] <t35t0r> what's a recommended java book?

[19:31:11] <Olathe> It seems to require that I specify interfaces.

[19:33:26] *** t35t0r has quit IRC

[19:34:36] *** vinse has joined ##java

[19:35:25] *** mrsolo has joined ##java

[19:35:30] <mohadib> given 2 appointment objects (an appointment is 2 longs - start and stop time) , what is the best way to determine if they overlap?

[19:35:58] <mohadib> im doing the obveious method , but i wonder if it is the right/best way

[19:36:55] <Olathe> Sort them by start time.  Search for an end time after the succeeding start time.

[19:38:04] <mohadib> ty

[19:38:14] <Olathe> No problem.

[19:39:21] *** wcstok has joined ##java

[19:39:24] *** kinabalu has quit IRC

[19:40:11] <Sou|cutter> jodatime (a date/time library) has 'Interval' objects which has methods for finding overlaps or gaps etc

[19:41:32] *** hashman has joined ##java

[19:41:40] <hashman> lo all

[19:42:33] *** Syloq has joined ##java

[19:42:43] <hashman> pr3d4t0r, you there?

[19:45:07] *** hocmin has joined ##java

[19:45:47] <IMTheNachoMan> !seen

[19:45:50] <IMTheNachoMan> ~seen

[19:45:50] <javabot> !seen seen

[19:45:53] <Drone> I've never seen seen talk in ##java.

[19:46:11] <IMTheNachoMan> ~pr3d4t0r

[19:46:12] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, pr3d4t0r is a sophisticated caviar-eating mexican swooning impressionable college girls on IRC -- http://eugeneciurana.com/images/pr3d4t0r_3.jpg

[19:46:37] <IMTheNachoMan> !seen pr3d4t0r

[19:46:39] <Drone> pr3d4t0r is currently online in ##java and last spoke on Tue 25 Oct 2005 16:25 GMT, saying 'pr3d4t0r wanders off.'.

[19:46:52] <dmlloyd|work> having fun with the bots?

[19:47:07] <dmlloyd|work> you know you can pm them and it makes it nicer for everyone else in the channel

[19:48:34] <dmlloyd|work> any one know of a good network server core for java?  something that provides callbacks, timers, etc.

[19:49:17] <joaopaulo> """connection.Query_DB();""" Query_DB have an array(x=thearray[0];), how to get that array over that class ?

[19:50:51] <hocmin> What widget would you use in Swing to create something like an ssh terminal?

[19:50:55] *** defcon8 has joined ##java

[19:51:06] <defcon8> is java being planned to be made faster?

[19:51:16] <dmlloyd|work> heh

[19:51:18] <dmlloyd|work> nice question

[19:51:30] <defcon8> (not a trolling attempt)

[19:51:34] <dmlloyd|work> actually, java is quite fast.  However it seems that many java programmers are really good at writing slow software.

[19:51:48] <dmlloyd|work> so to summarize: java fast, programmers slow.

[19:51:59] <defcon8> ok but it does take a while for a hello world to work

[19:52:43] <dmlloyd|work> so you're talking about jvm startup time

[19:52:59] <defcon8> yes

[19:53:11] <defcon8> is it fast after then or something?

[19:53:16] <synic> defcon8: http://www.bytonic.de/html/jake2_webstart.html

[19:53:38] <defcon8> and also about the usage of memory

[19:53:50] <dmlloyd|work> in the latest jvm, memory usage is highly tunable

[19:54:08] <defcon8> 1.5?

[19:54:28] <defcon8> and why are non java programmers always bashing java?

[19:54:45] <defcon8> saying its bad

[19:55:42] <hocmin> that's kinda an open ended question

[19:56:00] <defcon8> with the speed problems aside

[19:56:09] <defcon8> about the structure of the language or something?

[19:56:17] <Sou|cutter> defcon8: a lot of criticism of java is linked to either the broken MS VM or early versions of java that were a lot slower

[19:56:26] <defcon8> ok

[19:56:45] <Sou|cutter> defcon8: many people haven't reexamined the state of java since then, and so they have a 'stale' perspective

[19:56:49] *** alesan has joined ##java

[19:57:57] <hocmin> so is this a bad place to ask Java Swing questions?

[19:58:13] <vinse> hocmin: no

[19:58:18] <vinse> it's the right place i think

[19:58:25] <vinse> however

[19:58:31] <vinse> ~tell hocmin about ask to ask

[19:58:40] <vinse> hmm

[19:58:44] <vinse> this happened last night too

[19:58:54] <vinse> this particular factoid seems to take longer than others

[19:58:58] <hocmin> I just wanted to know what the proper widget for creating an ssh-like interface would be

[19:59:17] *** nirvdrum has quit IRC

[19:59:23] <vinse> woah where's the bot?

[19:59:24] <hocmin> I was thinking just a JTextPane, but it makes me think it might be tricky making sure you can only edit from the bottom line

[19:59:39] <vinse> javabot

[19:59:50] <hocmin> didn't know if there might be a widget that might be better suited

[19:59:56] <defcon8> hocmin, ssh like interface?

[19:59:59] <defcon8> wtf do you mean like that

[20:00:05] <defcon8> ssh isnt a shell, its only a protocol

[20:00:18] <vakYpollo> is it possible to stop awt/swing thread and restart it in a Subject.doAs() ?

[20:00:33] <hocmin> defcon8: heh.... ok, I want a "shell" like interface, commonly used in things like ssh

[20:00:43] <defcon8> you arent a nix user are you

[20:01:13] <hocmin> defon8: gentoo, but I'd appreciate if you flex your 1337-ness elsewhere

[20:01:23] <defcon8> yes true

[20:01:38] <defcon8> pardon me

[20:01:40] <defcon8> seriously

[20:02:39] *** bauerbob has joined ##java

[20:02:39] *** JViz has quit IRC

[20:02:54] <synic> hocmin: Document doc = pane.getDocument(); pane.insert(someIndex, "string" );

[20:02:59] <synic> hocmin: is that what you mean?

[20:03:05] *** shredstar has joined ##java

[20:03:33] <shredstar> Is there some way to put a button in that top right corner of a JTable (with scrollbar) ?

[20:03:47] <jwormy> shredstar, ##swing

[20:04:11] <defcon8> can you actually get a shell interface in java>

[20:06:01] <hocmin> synic: I've never used the Document interface before, but I'll look into it and see if it's what I need

[20:06:30] *** Astinus has joined ##java

[20:07:08] <hocmin> I guess what I really see a shell client (such as ssh) as is a scrollable text pane that you can interact with, but can only type from the bottom line, since everything else is just previous data

[20:07:44] <defcon8> yes

[20:07:55] <defcon8> maybe you could make one with stdin and stdout and stuff

[20:08:05] <defcon8> is there a system() function in java?

[20:08:37] <synic> there is a similar method, yes

[20:09:02] *** Cow_woC has quit IRC

[20:09:42] <defcon8> that could be used then when wanting to make a terminal in java

[20:14:32] <defcon8> what is the official java tutorial?

[20:14:42] *** vakYpollo has quit IRC

[20:15:15] <defcon8> sorry

[20:15:20] <defcon8> found it

[20:16:57] <pr3d4t0r> Greetings.

[20:17:01] <pr3d4t0r> cheeser: Ping...

[20:17:15] * pr3d4t0r gnaws at cheeser's neck.

[20:18:05] *** pandora-- has joined ##java

[20:18:26] <pr3d4t0r> pandora--!

[20:18:46] <vinse> pr3d4t0r!

[20:19:12] *** HelloWorld82 has joined ##java

[20:19:26] <pandora--> pr3d4t0r: hey!

[20:19:37] <pr3d4t0r> pandora--: :)

[20:22:35] <IMTheNachoMan> i asked a question earlier, more people here now il try again if thats ok

[20:23:06] <IMTheNachoMan> is there a way to have indivudal cells in a jtable have styled text (meaning different words in a cell can be different colors, fonts, sizes, etc..

[20:24:19] <dmlloyd|work> anyone using mysql 5 with java yet?

[20:24:31] *** hashman has quit IRC

[20:24:47] *** hashman has joined ##java

[20:24:54] *** Tirlas is now known as Tirlaway

[20:24:59] <defcon8> i cant find where to dl the sdk :(

[20:25:22] *** tmh has quit IRC

[20:25:25] *** MindZEye has joined ##java

[20:26:19] <pr3d4t0r> Graduates or undergraduates in Computer Engineering and Computer Science:  Stay tuned to ##java.  I just got information that my company will open internship positions for Summer 2006.

[20:26:33] <pr3d4t0r> cheeser: ^^^ I need to talk to you about this when you return ^^^

[20:26:33] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r where u work?

[20:26:36] * FaeLLe looks at pr3d4t0r

[20:26:37] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r

[20:26:39] *** IMTheNachoMan was kicked by pr3d4t0r (pr3d4t0r)

[20:26:41] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r

[20:26:44] *** IMTheNachoMan has joined ##java

[20:26:46] <IMTheNachoMan> sorry

[20:26:50] <IMTheNachoMan> where do you work?

[20:26:54] <Sou|cutter> pr3d4t0r: what about non-intern positions?

[20:26:56] <Sou|cutter> =)

[20:26:56] <vinse> lol

[20:27:02] <Sou|cutter> IMTheNachoMan: walmart.com

[20:27:02] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell IMTheNachoMan about Java migration

[20:27:02] <javabot> IMTheNachoMan, Case study of a Java 5 migration at one of the biggest web sites in the world:  http://www.theserverside.com/articles/article.tss?l=MigratingtoJava5

[20:27:17] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r is that where you work?

[20:27:18] <defcon8> anyone?

[20:27:18] <FaeLLe> pr3d4t0r: i finish my Msc in Sep 2006 .... i bet you need a assistant :p

[20:27:19] <pr3d4t0r> Sou|cutter: Coming up after 1.Feb -- and yes.

[20:27:23] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Yup.

[20:27:30] <pandora--> FaeLLe: haha

[20:27:37] * jwormy vows to stay away from working for any large corporation

[20:27:40] <IMTheNachoMan> where is the company located?

[20:27:44] <pr3d4t0r> FaeLLe: It might work out; I just asked about international students.  HR is looking into that.

[20:27:46] <Sou|cutter> pr3d4t0r: ah, well I may be looking then.  We'll see

[20:28:05] <FaeLLe> pr3d4t0r: dont forget me

[20:28:10] <defcon8> found it :|

[20:28:31] <pr3d4t0r> Sou|cutter: No new jobs are offered between 1.Sep and 31.Jan because of holiday period.  That's when we're at our very busiest.

[20:28:37] * Sou|cutter nods

[20:28:45] <FaeLLe> i have a 10 yr tourist visa so could come see your managers if needed

[20:28:47] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r wait you work for walmart?

[20:28:49] <FaeLLe> lol

[20:28:55] <hashman> pr3d4t0r, do you have a minute please?

[20:29:04] <FaeLLe> IMTheNachoMan: yer scroll up

[20:29:04] <hashman> IMTheNachoMan, yeah

[20:29:06] <dmlloyd|work> IMTheNachoMan: yeah, he's the old guy handing out carts at the door

[20:29:13] <pr3d4t0r> FaeLLe: I will post notices here periodically.  We won't start accepting resumes until around January but I want to get people thinking about that now, gauge their interest, etc.

[20:29:16] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r head quarters?

[20:29:21] <pr3d4t0r> hashman: Sure.

[20:29:39] <IMTheNachoMan> cool

[20:29:42] <IMTheNachoMan> later guys gota head to work

[20:29:43] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Walmart.com HQ, not at the Wal-Mart home office.  I fly to Bentonville often, though.

[20:29:48] <defcon8> i dont know which to download

[20:29:51] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r ah cool

[20:29:51] <defcon8> can anyone help?

[20:30:09] <hocmin> defcon8: what are you looking for, the SDK?

[20:30:12] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r yeah i like workin at HQ, i work at Bank of America HQ

[20:30:17] <alesan> hi

[20:30:29] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Ugh.

[20:30:34] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r why the ugh?

[20:30:38] <defcon8> yes hocmin

[20:30:39] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: That's NC, right?

[20:31:16] <FaeLLe> pr3d4t0r: neat

[20:31:18] <jwormy> IMTheNachoMan, charlotte, banking... thats what we do here :(

[20:31:18] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Because I was an architect at BofA back when it was cool and creating cutting edge technology, before hardass McCall and the Nations dinosaurs bought the bank out.

[20:31:50] <hocmin> defcon8: you probably just want the latest SDK then: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/download.jsp

[20:32:03] <defcon8> i got the j2se

[20:32:04] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r ah, i see

[20:32:06] <defcon8> but i cant compile

[20:32:07] <IMTheNachoMan> ok peace guys

[20:32:07] <hocmin> click the one that says "JDK 5.0 Update 5"

[20:32:09] <defcon8> no javac

[20:32:17] <defcon8> ahh i got jre sorry

[20:32:26] <hocmin> yeah, that would be a problem

[20:33:23] <defcon8> JDK 5.0 Update 5?

[20:33:32] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: I don't know if you guys preserved the history of BofA, but one of my former business partners was one of the creators of ERMA, and he also worked with BofA/SRI in developing the magnetic ink for cheques processing.

[20:33:35] <hocmin> defcon8: yeah

[20:33:44] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: That's how I wound up doing a lot of work with BofA.

[20:33:46] <defcon8> ok

[20:34:06] <hocmin> defcon8: for some reason they went to "5," skipping 2,3, and 4....  marketers...

[20:34:20] <defcon8> lol

[20:34:33] <IMTheNachoMan> well im always lookin for a better programming job, i might have to look into that walmart thing your talking bout

[20:34:36] <IMTheNachoMan> either that or lockheed

[20:34:42] <hocmin> walmart rules

[20:34:46] <IMTheNachoMan> well i gota goto work so il talk to everyone later

[20:34:46] <IMTheNachoMan> bye

[20:34:47] <FaeLLe> pr3d4t0r: would be a good thing to put on CV as well

[20:34:57] <hocmin> they don't have a super walmart where I live now.  It makes me miss it

[20:35:02] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: We have better, more intresting jobs in CA than in Bentonville if you're a Java guy.

[20:35:09] <pr3d4t0r> FaeLLe: :)

[20:35:11] <pr3d4t0r> OKi, meting.

[20:35:17] <pr3d4t0r> Er, meeting.

[20:35:20] <pr3d4t0r> Cheers.

[20:35:29] <pr3d4t0r> hashman: dude?

[20:35:41] <pr3d4t0r> hashman: I hpe you aren't wgetting the whole site.

[20:35:53] <znoG> pr3d4t0r: approx. what's an average salary for a Java programmer?

[20:36:05] <pr3d4t0r> hashman: If you are, please set your wget to --limit-bandwidth to around 20 KB/s.

[20:36:17] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: It varies widely.

[20:36:23] <jwormy> znoG, depends on your job title...   your area.... etc etc..

[20:36:27] <znoG> i can imagine, based on experience and stuff

[20:36:35] <znoG> but say a Junior guy with less than 3 years experience programming in Java

[20:36:42] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: Depends on where you are.  Entry level you're looking at between $50K and $65K, depending on the package you get, etc.

[20:36:49] <FaeLLe> i dont care about salary

[20:36:53] <FaeLLe> i just want the exp

[20:36:53] <jwormy> znoG, like i'd say for me to live pr3d4t0r's lifestyle here in cahrlotte it would cost me A LOT less

[20:36:54] <znoG> nice

[20:36:54] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: That's industry-wide, not my company.

[20:37:01] <znoG> yeah

[20:37:09] <vinse> ~jwormy

[20:37:09] <javabot> vinse, jwormy is my favorite asshat

[20:37:18] <znoG> i'm learning Java at UNI, would be nice to code in it for a living, at least for 3 years

[20:37:18] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r yes i am now, i only started a few years ago

[20:37:22] <znoG> then move onto something more interesting

[20:37:27] <pr3d4t0r> znoG: We have a somewhat skewed view of reality here because almost every software person here has at least 5 years of experience.

[20:37:39] <FaeLLe> pr3d4t0r: id work for free as well just for the experience :)

[20:37:42] <hashman> pr3d4t0r, don't worry ;)

[20:37:46] <pr3d4t0r> FaeLLe: :)

[20:38:00] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r i dont do as much programming at BofA as id like to, but i wrote a few programs for them they liked so im thinking if i can impress them then il be good to go

[20:38:07] <pr3d4t0r> hashman: Also, if you want to suck up the whole site, I have an ISO disk image somewhere that you can burn onto your own CD.

[20:38:15] *** Coffman has joined ##java

[20:38:24] <FaeLLe> which website is this ?

[20:38:25] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Are they still using 4700s at the branches?

[20:38:37] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r not sure what that means?

[20:38:39] <pr3d4t0r> FaeLLe: One that is only for hashman -- private stuff.

[20:38:41] <shredstar> I just work for free t-shirts, paintball thursdays, and a cool cube color.

[20:38:54] <FaeLLe> pr3d4t0r: intresting :p

[20:39:02] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: IBM 4700 terminals at branches, or have they deployed workstations?

[20:39:05] <Sou|cutter> pr3d4t0r: still using irssi?

[20:39:10] <pr3d4t0r> Sou|cutter: Yes.

[20:39:19] *** hashman has quit IRC

[20:39:23] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r workstations

[20:39:27] <Sou|cutter> pr3d4t0r: mischan city ;)

[20:39:41] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Ah, goodie.  As late as 1998 Nations was still dicking with 4700s.

[20:39:45] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r im on a team thats trying to get them to switch to linux servers too

[20:39:48] <pr3d4t0r> Sou|cutter: Nah.

[20:39:56] <pr3d4t0r> Sou|cutter: That was on purpose.

[20:40:04] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Sweet.

[20:40:10] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Kick IBM in the nuts.

[20:40:25] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Nations/BofA was too much in bed with IBM.

[20:40:30] <IMTheNachoMan> well im tryin to convince them to use gentoo, debian, slack or something like that

[20:40:32] <IMTheNachoMan> yeah tell me bout it

[20:40:43] <IMTheNachoMan> well we just got some more tivoli softare so

[20:40:47] <IMTheNachoMan> i dont think we will ever kick IBM

[20:40:47] *** Mot has joined ##java

[20:40:56] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Snoop around for something called Integrion that Nations Bank championed.  I was part of that too (Nations, BofA, Bank One, etc.).

[20:40:57] <IMTheNachoMan> and we will never lose microsoft cause of the contract we have with em

[20:41:07] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r il look

[20:41:07] <pr3d4t0r> Anyway...

[20:41:13] <pr3d4t0r> Have a great day gang.

[20:41:17] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r whats this site for the walmart thing

[20:41:21] <IMTheNachoMan> for the jobs so i can look around

[20:41:23] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: No site yet.

[20:41:24] <FaeLLe> pr3d4t0r: bye P

[20:41:32] <IMTheNachoMan> pr3d4t0r oh ok, peace

[20:42:22] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: http://www.integrion.net/

[20:42:32] <pr3d4t0r> Wait...  that's not it.

[20:43:12] *** fuso has quit IRC

[20:43:24] <pr3d4t0r> I guess it finally died.  Good riddance.

[20:43:45] <pr3d4t0r> http://static.highbeam.com/b/banktechnologynews/april012000/soundingoffdeconstructingconsortiumintegrionfinanc/

[20:43:48] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: ^^^^

[20:44:13] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: I architected the transition from Integrion to standard on-line banking systems at BofA.

[20:44:18] <pr3d4t0r> s/BofA/Bank One/

[20:44:24] *** asac_ has joined ##java

[20:44:33] <IMTheNachoMan> ahh cool

[20:44:38] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Integrion was this COBOL, fixed-message-size monster.

[20:44:53] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: Most of the engineering came out of Nations (now BofA).

[20:45:02] <IMTheNachoMan> hehe were still using cobol

[20:45:05] <IMTheNachoMan> il have to read it later right now i gota go, else il be in trouble

[20:45:11] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: The best thing to come out of it is something you may have heard of:  IBM MQ Series :)

[20:45:12] <IMTheNachoMan> peace everyone

[20:45:15] <IMTheNachoMan> yeah

[20:45:18] <IMTheNachoMan> we use it

[20:45:21] <IMTheNachoMan> a lot

[20:45:24] <IMTheNachoMan> very intelligent

[20:45:40] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: I bet.  IBM developed it for you and Bank One (the first Integrion partners).

[20:45:52] <IMTheNachoMan> i cant actually talk bout it any more or il say something im not supposed to

[20:45:53] <IMTheNachoMan> heh

[20:45:55] <pr3d4t0r> IMTheNachoMan: It was developed to overcome the COBOL gack in the messaging system.

[20:45:58] <IMTheNachoMan> you understand

[20:45:59] <IMTheNachoMan> yeah

[20:46:03] <IMTheNachoMan> its doin a lot more now

[20:46:05] <IMTheNachoMan> but i gota go

[20:46:05] <IMTheNachoMan> peace

[20:46:08] <pr3d4t0r> Cheers.

[20:46:19] *** shad0wcat has joined ##java

[20:47:26] *** hashman has joined ##java

[20:47:27] *** nick58b has joined ##java

[20:48:09] *** Lars_G has joined ##java

[20:48:27] *** apix has joined ##java

[20:49:57] <vinse> i dont know where to go for lunch

[20:50:17] <vinse> mr.pickles maybe, but i've eaten there like every day for a week

[20:50:32] <vinse> i'm now taking advice on this important subject

[20:50:47] <joaopaulo> eat vegan food vinse

[20:50:51] <gabb> Is there a frame- and borderless dialog/popup thing for stuff like displaying progress bars and splash pages ?

[20:51:09] <vinse> joaopaulo: no

[20:51:22] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: I have a bigger problem.

[20:51:27] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: I left my wallet at home.

[20:51:33] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Pick me up and take me to lunch :)

[20:51:36] <vinse> heh

[20:51:45] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Where are you again?  San Mateo?

[20:51:49] <vinse> yeah

[20:51:58] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Meet me in Burlingame for sushi... ;)

[20:52:18] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Just kiddin'.  That'd be expensive.

[20:52:29] <vinse> yeah, lets do that when you have your wallet ;p

[20:52:42] <hocmin> gabb: JProgressBar not what you want?

[20:53:07] <pr3d4t0r> LOL -- deal.

[20:53:20] <pr3d4t0r> I'm going to have to bum lunch from the guys I'm meeting with :(

[20:53:46] <hocmin> gabb: I'm new to Swing, but couldn't you couldn't you do something like that with either the glass Pane or maybe just in some separate JPanel?

[20:54:07] <vinse>  I have read and agree with the Google Web APIs license terms.

[20:54:07] <vinse>   	  Size: 666K

[20:54:12] *** shingoki has joined ##java

[20:54:13] <vinse> hmm, anyone else sense ... evil?

[20:54:21] <shingoki> I'm NOT evil!

[20:54:32] <shingoki> I have an evil intent, it's different

[20:56:17] *** asac has quit IRC

[20:56:18] *** asac_ is now known as asac

[20:57:05] *** nirvdrum has joined ##java

[20:57:07] *** vinson has left ##java

[20:58:43] <hashman> pr3d4t0r, 15kb ;)

[20:58:55] <nirvdrum> yo

[20:59:07] *** eidolon has quit IRC

[20:59:10] <gabb> hocmin, ah, the GlassPane might be just what I was looking for .. but I was hoping for a model thing, so I don't need to bother with the user ignoring it

[20:59:20] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Btw, if I ever touch your city you're going to invite me to sushi.

[20:59:46] <Lars_G> vinse: Google is not evil

[20:59:57] <vinse> Lars_G: i know, it's in their mission statement

[21:00:30] <Lars_G> vinse: Now there are other corps: http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/732.html

[21:00:32] <shingoki> You know gates admitted that MS' mission statement is essentially "Do Evil" ?

[21:00:42] <Lars_G> shingoki: Read the link I gave

[21:00:47] <hocmin> gabb: and a separate JPanel wouldn't do the job either?  Wouldn't that serve your need of a floating, parentless, borderless window?

[21:01:18] <gabb> You can't set modal to a JPanel IIRC.

[21:01:43] <shingoki> Lars_G, heh that's good :) You know that bill did actually more or less say that MS's mission statement was the opposite of googles? I'll have a look for a quote

[21:01:43] <gabb> I want whatever happens with that progressbar the user to wait until it disappears again.

[21:02:15] <Drone> View joaopaulo's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8574

[21:02:23] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: If they're prospective employers make they pay for lunch, if theyre prospective clients, offer to pay and then give yourself sexually in secret to the restaurant owner, but do NOT bum on the clients

[21:02:54] *** stork is now known as Stork

[21:03:02] <shingoki> Lars_G, you could just pay...

[21:03:13] <shingoki> rather than the prostitution :)

[21:03:29] <Lars_G> shingoki: Prostitution is fun. b) he forgot his wallet home

[21:03:29] *** Manny has quit IRC

[21:03:58] <hocmin> gabb: yeah I dunno.  I'm too green with Swing.  GlassPane is only thing I can think of

[21:03:59] <shingoki> Lars_G, ah of course, when you have questionable morals you don't need to carry cash :)

[21:07:16] <defcon8> how do you do strings in java?

[21:08:03] * shingoki achieves Java zen

[21:08:09] <shingoki> How do you do Java in Java?

[21:08:19] <vinse> what is the sound of one java clapping?

[21:08:25] <defcon8> ok

[21:08:31] <defcon8> how do i declarea string on java?

[21:08:39] <Lars_G> shingoki: Easy, parts of java have been self compiling for a while

[21:08:44] <FaeLLe> ~tell defcon8 about javadoc String

[21:08:44] <javabot> defcon8, please see java.lang.String: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/String.html

[21:08:56] <defcon8> i remember now

[21:09:19] <shingoki> Lars_G, I guess beanshell would be one answer to the question, but really I was just being sarcastic :)

[21:09:35] <shingoki> Lars_G, the quote is here: http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=115600

[21:09:40] <Lars_G> shingoki: I know, but I love acting like I missed the joke/sarcasm/etc

[21:09:49] <Lars_G> makes people flustered and angry :)

[21:10:00] <shingoki> Lars_G, I have too much chocolate to be fulstered or angry

[21:10:07] <shingoki> flustered...

[21:10:31] <Lars_G> mmmm chocolate

[21:10:49] *** cored has joined ##java

[21:10:50] <shingoki> nyam nyam nyam

[21:10:55] <shingoki> ahhh

[21:12:29] <defcon8> 		String s;

[21:12:29] <defcon8> 		System.out.println(s);

[21:12:34] <defcon8> why isnt that working then

[21:13:32] <Logi> defcon8: read the compiler error message

[21:13:47] <Logi> defcon8: it's quite explicit

[21:14:05] <defcon8> BasicsDemo.java:9: variable s might not have been initialized

[21:14:05] <defcon8>                 System.out.println(s);

[21:14:24] <Logi> defcon8: there we are then. You define the variable but you don't initialize

[21:14:33] <Logi> defcon8: what value would you expect to be output?

[21:14:33] <defcon8> oh yeah\

[21:14:35] <defcon8> silly me

[21:14:41] * defcon8 kicks himself

[21:14:48] <Logi> defcon8: better you than me :)

[21:15:03] *** joaopaulo has quit IRC

[21:15:14] <gabb> hocmin, thanks anyway, help is always appreciated :)

[21:16:28] *** Charlls has quit IRC

[21:17:21] <defcon8> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: while resolving class: BasicsDemo

[21:17:21] <defcon8>    at java.lang.VMClassLoader.transformException(java.lang.Class, java.lang.Throwable) (/usr/lib/libgcj.so.6.0.0)

[21:17:22] <defcon8> wtf?

[21:17:30] *** hdkiller has joined ##java

[21:18:20] <ernimril> defcon8: why are you using gcj?

[21:18:26] <defcon8> i dunno

[21:18:27] <Logi> defcon8: are you now running the applicaiton?

[21:18:29] <defcon8> im on ubuntu

[21:18:31] <Logi> defcon8: are you? don't

[21:18:38] <defcon8> yeah i did java BasicsDemo

[21:18:40] *** apix has quit IRC

[21:18:47] <ernimril> defcon8: download suns jdk and use that instead

[21:18:48] <defcon8> compiled fine

[21:18:52] <defcon8> im use the jdk

[21:18:54] <defcon8> using

[21:19:05] <shingoki> not from that error message

[21:19:06] <defcon8> jdk-1_5_0_05

[21:19:07] <ernimril> defcon8: gcj is nowhere near ready for swing (and a lot of other stuff) yet

[21:19:11] * Logi goes home

[21:19:31] <defcon8> bye

[21:19:31] <shingoki> defcon8, http://serios.net/content/debian/java/with-java-package.php

[21:19:49] <shingoki> how do I add a factoid for that page, for debian, or debian java or something?

[21:19:49] <defcon8> hmm ill have a look later then

[21:20:09] <alesan> Logi, are you here?

[21:20:10] *** Pi_Wizard has quit IRC

[21:20:14] *** bov has joined ##java

[21:20:23] <shingoki> msg javabot help

[21:20:24] <ernimril> shingoki: tell it "javabot: debian java is ...."

[21:20:25] <shingoki> crap

[21:20:37] <Logi> alesan: uh, yeah, but my dad's waiting for me outside and I've got to run

[21:20:42] <alesan> ok

[21:20:44] <shingoki> I can never remember bot commands

[21:20:45] <Logi> alesan: I'll be in Torino Saturday night

[21:20:51] <alesan> bye then (I'm in your flat for a couple of days)

[21:20:56] <Logi> alesan: you've got my e-mail and phone number, right?

[21:20:59] <Logi> alesan: ok :)

[21:21:00] <alesan> yes

[21:21:05] <alesan> bye!

[21:21:06] <Logi> alesan: will you be there when I get back?

[21:21:07] <bov> is there an API to create hashes?  example: for NTLM and SMB hash?

[21:21:11] <alesan> I think not

[21:21:16] *** Lars_G has left ##java

[21:21:18] <Logi> alesan: ok, ciao for now, then

[21:21:22] <alesan> ciao!

[21:22:11] *** shad0wcat has quit IRC

[21:22:26] <dmlloyd|work> bov, look in JCE

[21:22:32] <dmlloyd|work> also check out bouncycastle

[21:22:50] *** fuso has joined ##java

[21:23:00] <shingoki> ~debian

[21:23:00] <javabot> shingoki, debian is a linux distribution, to install Java properly see http://serios.net/content/debian/java/with-java-package.php

[21:24:31] <defcon8> shingoki, what does your name mean?

[21:24:46] <shingoki> defcon8, it's from streetfighter

[21:24:53] <defcon8> oh yeah!

[21:24:56] <bov> dmlloyd|work: I checked into javax.crypto for a while but most of that is encrption and not just hash creation...

[21:25:00] <shingoki> means something, I can never work out quite what :)

[21:25:37] <ernimril> bov: MessageDigest in the standard api is for hashes

[21:27:02] *** shingoki has quit IRC

[21:27:10] <defcon8> holy crap

[21:27:15] <defcon8> my monitor is refusing to turn off

[21:27:17] *** qsrv has joined ##java

[21:27:20] <defcon8> i press the button and it isnt turning off

[21:27:30] <defcon8> oh did now

[21:27:35] <bov> ernimril: I tried using MessageDigest which returned a byte[] that didnt convert into char to well it was creating weird charactors

[21:27:39] <qsrv> hi

[21:27:51] *** shingoki has joined ##java

[21:27:53] <ernimril> bov: it does not create chars...

[21:27:57] <shingoki> #nebula

[21:28:01] <qsrv> I was looking for a class to store a graph conveniently

[21:28:11] *** Tubbi3 has joined ##java

[21:28:13] <qsrv> is there such a find in the sdk?

[21:28:17] <bov> ernimril: I'll need the hash into a String

[21:28:24] <shingoki> dammit I hate xchat

[21:28:26] <qsrv> I could'nt find anything..

[21:28:32] <ernimril> bov: String of what format?

[21:28:52] <bov> enmand: one sec I'll find an example

[21:29:00] *** HelloWorld82 has left ##java

[21:29:01] <enmand> Okay.

[21:29:13] * enmand slaps ernimril

[21:29:42] <dmlloyd|work> bov: into a string is the easy part

[21:30:22] <ernimril> bov: this is an example of md5sum/sha1sum written in java: http://www.khelekore.org/~robo/MD5.java

[21:31:14] *** Stork is now known as stork

[21:34:53] *** cybereal has joined ##java

[21:35:14] <bov> ernimril: thanks

[21:36:40] *** censored has joined ##java

[21:37:58] *** kriger has quit IRC

[21:38:39] *** ThinkNOLA has joined ##java

[21:40:15] *** jcummins has joined ##java

[21:44:42] *** hansderagon has joined ##java

[21:44:57] <hansderagon> Greetings.  Anybody can tell me which java project provides org.apache.util.HttpURL?

[21:45:14] <FaeLLe> google ?

[21:45:14] <hansderagon> I search apache.org, but cannot find it.

[21:45:19] <hansderagon> I searched apache.org, but cannot find it.

[21:46:22] <FaeLLe> jsourcery.com/output/apache/jakarta/slide/server/2.0/org/apache/util/HttpURL.html

[21:46:37] <FaeLLe> hmm so looks like some thing with jakarta ?

[21:47:29] *** shredstar has quit IRC

[21:49:03] *** PPSD has joined ##java

[21:49:07] *** bauerbob has quit IRC

[21:49:07] <PPSD> hi

[21:49:08] *** shad0wcat has joined ##java

[21:49:42] *** henning has quit IRC

[21:51:13] *** terence_ has joined ##java

[21:54:10] *** ulver has quit IRC

[21:54:12] <cheeser> hansderagon: www.jarhoo.com

[21:54:25] <PPSD> i have a GUI which is constructed by different panels, each represented by a single class... each panel can generate events which might affect the whole program... what's the best way to report such "global events"? a static Main class which glues everything together?

[21:55:44] *** Uviz has joined ##java

[21:56:43] *** vinse has quit IRC

[21:56:43] *** wcstok has quit IRC

[21:56:43] *** jwormy has quit IRC

[21:56:43] *** horros has quit IRC

[21:56:52] *** lunk has joined ##java

[21:57:17] <lunk> hola

[21:58:07] <hansderagon> I found it.  Thanks.

[21:58:07] *** FaeLLe has quit IRC

[21:58:11] *** hansderagon has quit IRC

[21:58:28] <qsrv> are there standart java classes for storing graphs and sets?

[21:58:46] <dmlloyd|work> sets yes

[21:59:20] *** nirvdrum has quit IRC

[21:59:22] *** [-D7-] has joined ##java

[21:59:23] <dmlloyd|work> a graph is simply a collection of nodes each with a set of connections to another node on the graph

[21:59:24] <[-D7-]> hello

[22:00:03] <qsrv> what is the class for storing sets?

[22:00:11] <cheeser> Set

[22:00:18] *** nirvdrum has joined ##java

[22:00:22] <[-D7-]> I want to store persistent data in memory to be available for any EJB Session that I create

[22:00:34] <[-D7-]> how I can do it ? static field ?

[22:02:31] *** alesan has quit IRC

[22:03:01] *** Mot has quit IRC

[22:03:16] *** Mot has joined ##java

[22:04:00] *** Cyde has joined ##java

[22:04:34] <Cyde> I have a problem ... I'm trying to use Image's getScaledInstance() to make a copy of an image, only resized, and then display it in an Applet, but it's not working?

[22:04:44] <Cyde> It just doesn't display anything.

[22:06:06] <Cyde> All of my other images are loaded from files and added to a MediaTracker.

[22:06:52] *** shad0wcat has quit IRC

[22:08:38] <Cyde> .... Bueller?

[22:08:47] *** xitrium has joined ##java

[22:10:32] *** Kallistor has quit IRC

[22:12:33] *** jcummins has quit IRC

[22:12:37] <bov> ernimril: is there a list for support algs for .getInstance()?

[22:12:58] *** qsrv has quit IRC

[22:13:31] *** xitrium has left ##java

[22:14:00] *** Uvizor has quit IRC

[22:14:44] *** bowyakka has quit IRC

[22:15:12] <cheeser> [-D7-]: JNDI?

[22:15:15] <ernimril> bov: check the javadoc for the method, follow the link

[22:15:37] <cheeser> static isn't a safe approach in an EJB world since static elements don't cross the classloader boundary

[22:17:10] *** bogonflux has quit IRC

[22:17:22] *** nirvdrum has quit IRC

[22:18:10] *** wms has quit IRC

[22:18:27] *** bogonflux has joined ##java

[22:21:02] <bov> ernimril: is java.security.Provider used to create my own algorithm?

[22:21:43] *** linuxfreck has quit IRC

[22:22:40] *** rogue-kun{B}|Awa is now known as rogue-kun{B}

[22:23:28] <dmlloyd|work> so nobody knows of a good network server core for java?  something that provides callbacks, timers, etc.

[22:23:41] <dmlloyd|work> I guess I'm not surprised.  Google didn't turn up much either

[22:23:54] <dmlloyd|work> without containers, java programmers would be oh so confused :-/

[22:24:07] <ernimril> dmlloyd|work: define good

[22:24:29] <ernimril> dmlloyd|work: I am working on the next generation of my web proxy, it will be full nio,...

[22:24:54] <[-D7-]> cheeser, I don't know if will be possible

[22:25:02] <cheeser> [-D7-]: why not?

[22:25:06] <dmlloyd|work> I'm looking for something that uses NIO, preferably with JMX support

[22:25:23] <dmlloyd|work> basically I want to say, here's my socket, give me a call when something happens

[22:25:37] <dmlloyd|work> or, call me in 2 minutes

[22:25:47] <dmlloyd|work> without having 9 million threads :)

[22:26:06] <dmlloyd|work> it's easy enough to write, I've done it in numerous other languages

[22:26:07] *** horros has joined ##java

[22:26:15] *** putzel has quit IRC

[22:26:18] <dmlloyd|work> but just once I'd like to not have to reinvent the wheel

[22:26:58] <ernimril> dmlloyd|work: but I want a wheel with 4 corners... :-)

[22:27:44] <cheeser> dmlloyd|work: you want a distributed event system, then?

[22:27:51] <dmlloyd|work> yeah, basically I guess

[22:28:24] <dmlloyd|work> jmx managed, with a thread pool

[22:28:33] *** defcon8 has quit IRC

[22:28:42] *** Bevin has quit IRC

[22:29:08] *** Wufei|school is now known as Chang_Wufei

[22:29:47] <dmlloyd|work> there isn't one is there :(

[22:30:12] <dmlloyd|work> you'd think that e.g. tomcat and such would have something

[22:30:36] <dmlloyd|work> I guess in the age of RMI, tomcat and EJB, people don't write network servers anymore

[22:31:07] <ernimril> dmlloyd|work: the servlet specification does not fit well with nio

[22:31:26] <dmlloyd|work> I'm not really interested in doing servlets

[22:31:51] <ernimril> dmlloyd|work: no, but tomcat is the reference implementation of servlets, it is its main thing to do..

[22:31:53] <[-D7-]> cheeser, because I have to load these properties from a properties file

[22:32:01] *** Kezzer has joined ##java

[22:32:01] <dmlloyd|work> I see

[22:32:15] <dmlloyd|work> so they aren't likely using NIO

[22:32:22] <ernimril> dmlloyd|work: not much, no

[22:32:47] <ernimril> dmlloyd|work: my proxy is nowhere near ready, but you can have what I have at the moment if you like...

[22:32:53] <[-D7-]> cheeser, I thought in : ENC Context or static variable

[22:33:10] <dmlloyd|work> you have a generic event handling loop?

[22:33:17] *** jwormy2 has joined ##java

[22:33:27] *** jor has quit IRC

[22:33:38] <ernimril> dmlloyd|work: Im working on something like that...

[22:34:04] *** jwormy2 is now known as jwormy

[22:34:45] *** bov has quit IRC

[22:35:44] <ernimril> dmlloyd|work: note that this is a proxy in the core, so it is quite specific...

[22:35:51] <ernimril> dmlloyd|work: www.khelekore.org/~robo/RabbIT3.tar.gz

[22:36:30] *** shad0wcat has joined ##java

[22:36:52] *** pchapman has joined ##java

[22:38:23] <grifis> if i'm using int readb = in.read( buffer , 0 , 10) ... how can i "clean" buffer from data when int readb < 10?

[22:38:31] *** Endust has joined ##java

[22:38:42] *** Bevin has joined ##java

[22:39:16] <ernimril> grifis: why do you need to ?

[22:40:07] *** Epesh has quit IRC

[22:40:21] *** Cyde has left ##java

[22:42:21] <grifis> because i have to use in.read() a lot of time and when reading last 10 bytes...there aren't exact 10 bytes

[22:42:59] <cheeser> that's not a why

[22:43:37] <grifis> byte array 'buffer' results dirty of previous received bytes

[22:43:40] *** ThinkNOLA has left ##java

[22:45:43] <ernimril> grifis: so? you know how much you have just read

[22:46:04] <grifis> i'm using String file = new String(buffer); and then System.out.print(file);  ... i see my file in full plus last few bytes repeted

[22:46:28] <[-D7-]> cheeser, is it to me ?

[22:46:32] <ernimril> grifis: 1) there are more suitable constructors, 2) you want to specify an encoding

[22:46:37] <cheeser> [-D7-]: eh?

[22:47:12] <[-D7-]> cheeser, talk to me ?

[22:47:19] *** hdkiller has quit IRC

[22:47:35] <Chalain> I have a protected (named) inner class inside a class that I am unit testing.  Can I instantiate that inner class directly, outside of the containing class?  My JUnit test class is in the same package and can see into the parent's protecteds.

[22:47:46] <cheeser> [-D7-]: what's up?  i couldn't quite make sense of the last thing you said to m.e

[22:47:49] *** bpalmer has joined ##java

[22:48:30] <grifis> ernimril: you said that maybe i have to specify length with String's constructor?

[22:49:27] <[-D7-]> cheeser,  what's up what ?

[22:49:29] <cheeser> grifis: are you reading from a file or a socket?

[22:49:38] <grifis> from a socket

[22:50:37] <nmx> if i'm using a SocketFactory to create a new Socket, and the port it's trying to connect to is firewalled (not sending back a SYN-ACK or a RST packet), the factory seems to hang forever; is there a way to set a timeout?

[22:51:56] *** vinse has joined ##java

[22:51:56] *** JViz has joined ##java

[22:52:07] *** [-D7-] has quit IRC

[22:52:27] <nmx> ok, it hangs for maybe 2 minutes, this is still pretty bad

[22:52:58] *** Markov has joined ##java

[22:53:50] *** PPSD has quit IRC

[22:56:16] <grifis> cheeser: done. thank you

[22:57:52] <grifis> ernimril thank you too

[22:57:53] *** stork has quit IRC

[22:58:32] *** Stork has joined ##java

[23:00:19] *** mushona has quit IRC

[23:01:22] *** watzlaf has quit IRC

[23:03:31] *** Tirlaway is now known as TirClass

[23:04:03] *** Sadlar has joined ##java

[23:04:15] *** jk__ has joined ##java

[23:05:23] <Sadlar> Hi all.  Does anyone know how to set the timeout for calls from the client in the latest JDK ORB?

[23:06:38] *** shad0wcat has quit IRC

[23:08:52] <dmlloyd|work> eww, corba

[23:09:11] <bpalmer> corba++

[23:09:17] <dmlloyd|work> too complex

[23:09:34] <dmlloyd|work> overengineered

[23:09:41] <bpalmer> cross-platform

[23:10:37] *** Erica has joined ##java

[23:10:40] <Erica> Hi!

[23:10:52] <Erica> what is a good project planner outside of MS Project?

[23:11:08] *** bpalmer is now known as d`

[23:11:08] <Erica> want gantt charts

[23:11:26] *** d` is now known as d-smith

[23:12:36] <chippy> hi erica, theres an opensource one, made with java, i liked it

[23:12:39] *** Kezzer has quit IRC

[23:12:40] <chippy> one sec

[23:12:57] <chippy> http://ganttproject.sourceforge.net/

[23:12:57] *** Stork has quit IRC

[23:13:08] <Sadlar> Thanks for the thoughts about CORBA, anyone got any ideas?

[23:13:14] <Erica> thanks chippy!

[23:13:23] *** Stork has joined ##java

[23:13:27] <chippy> tis good erica

[23:13:33] <d-smith> Sadlar: sorry, no, I've never used corba with java

[23:14:36] *** Tubbi3 has quit IRC

[23:14:58] <Sadlar> Basically, in 1.4 ORB timeouts did not exist, but I can't find any info on whether they have been added in 1.5

[23:16:54] *** Stork has quit IRC

[23:17:06] *** Chang_Wufei is now known as Wufei|taping

[23:17:29] *** tieTYT has joined ##java

[23:17:31] *** Stork has joined ##java

[23:17:53] <tieTYT> is it possible to load a .properties file from the classpath instead of as a filesystem file?

[23:17:56] <pchapman> Does anyone know if there are plans to add generics to apache's commons collection?

[23:18:37] *** d-smith is now known as bpalmer

[23:18:56] *** kercyr has joined ##java

[23:18:56] <dmlloyd|work> somehow I doubt it

[23:19:10] <dmlloyd|work> commons projects have this way of not being worked on for years at a time

[23:19:46] <pchapman> Makes sense.  If it works...  I'm trying to implement generics in the TreeList class specifically.

[23:20:50] <jk__> erica: do you use linux or M$??

[23:21:06] <pchapman> Since I've just started using generics, making the changes to TreeList is...  Interesting.

[23:21:39] <jk__> erica: take a look to planner, is possible that it be available also for M$ systems

[23:23:39] <jk__> erica:http://developer.imendio.com/wiki/Planner

[23:24:35] *** rogue-kun{B} is now known as rogue-kun{B}|Awa

[23:26:10] *** Sadlar has quit IRC

[23:26:47] *** Cutt has joined ##java

[23:26:52] <Cutt> hi to all

[23:27:03] <dmlloyd|work> grr, we all have to take "Civil Treatment for Employees" classes

[23:27:06] <Erica> I use M$

[23:27:20] *** hashman has quit IRC

[23:27:36] <Erica> http://developer.imendio.com/wiki/Planner

[23:27:45] *** Tubbi3 has joined ##java

[23:28:29] <jk__> erica: mmm... i think that it's only for linux, but the source is available...

[23:29:01] <Erica> there is an experimental windows version available too.

[23:29:26] *** Cutt has left ##java

[23:29:31] <Erica> thanks.

[23:29:35] <jk__> erica: then try it, i think that is a good tool

[23:29:38] <Erica> i'll check them both out.

[23:31:34] *** arnon has joined ##java

[23:31:51] <arnon> which one is faster arraylist or ordinary array ?

[23:32:00] <Mazon> ordinary array

[23:32:16] <arnon> thanks

[23:32:37] <Mazon> the difference being that arraylist is resizable

[23:33:06] <arnon> I see

[23:33:16] <bpalmer> faster at what?

[23:33:19] <dmlloyd|work> ...and can be used anywhere you'd use a collection

[23:33:50] <jk__> chippy:i've been looking ganttproject and it looks well. I read: "Move code as Eclipse plugin" in the 2.0 release features. Does it mean that it can be used as an Eclipse plugin??

[23:34:39] *** joered has quit IRC

[23:35:16] <chippy> dunno jk.

[23:35:42] <jk__> chippy: it could be an interesting feature

[23:35:50] <chippy> very much so!

[23:36:09] *** radone has joined ##java

[23:36:41] <jk__> chippy: i'll try it tomorrow. Another possible open source tool, thanks for the info!

[23:36:59] <chippy> http://eclipse-plugins.2y.net/eclipse/plugin_details.jsp?id=1128  looks like it is a plugin too!

[23:38:02] <chippy> and through webstart, and standalone it seems

[23:38:38] <jk__> very interesting... but, where can we download it??? in the web page there are only standalone versions for download

[23:38:40] <Erica> would be nice if they exported to windows doc

[23:38:44] <chippy> if i recal correctly it originated as some form of student project

[23:38:46] *** Jax has joined ##java

[23:38:50] <Jax> hello ;)

[23:38:53] *** Lars_G has joined ##java

[23:38:53] <jk__> erica: :-(((((

[23:38:54] <Jax> what do i need on unix to develop java?

[23:38:56] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Got food?

[23:39:03] <Lars_G> Jax: a JDK

[23:39:18] <Jax> don't i just need an editor and a compiler? and the libraries

[23:39:36] <chippy> i dunno jk, isnt there a browsabe plugin thing within eclipse?

[23:39:47] *** Stork has quit IRC

[23:39:48] <dmlloyd|work> Jax: jdk is the compiler + libraries

[23:39:55] *** Isil`Zha has joined ##java

[23:40:00] *** Stork has joined ##java

[23:40:01] <dmlloyd|work> use whatever editor you like

[23:40:02] <Jax> is that caled blackdown or something?

[23:40:07] <dmlloyd|work> no

[23:40:12] <dmlloyd|work> blackdown is *a* jdk

[23:40:14] <dmlloyd|work> sun also has one

[23:40:18] <Lars_G> Jax: Blackdown is a JDK, there are many, sun's is the prefered one

[23:40:22] <dmlloyd|work> so does IBM, apple, microsoft, etc.=

[23:40:25] <Jax> which one should be used, which is the prefered, and why?

[23:40:37] <dmlloyd|work> use Sun's, they invented java

[23:40:48] <Lars_G> Jax: Depends on your system and what you will do. Sun's is generally prefered since it's from the creator of Java.

[23:40:59] <Jax> hm. does this also mean there are different environments it can run in.. and depending on which one, it will run differently?

[23:41:15] <jk__> chippy: i suppose that when you install ganttproject it will ask for eclipse location and will add a menu entry, or maybe is much supossing..

[23:41:50] <Lars_G> Jax: Correct, the enviroment is generally known as JRE.

[23:42:12] <jk__> chippy: tomorrow i will try it, i can't more today..

[23:42:12] <Jax> whoa.. that's pretty dangerous, no?

[23:42:17] *** terence_ has quit IRC

[23:42:19] <jk__> bye!

[23:42:19] <chippy> :)

[23:42:21] <Lars_G> Jax: No, it's not.

[23:42:26] <cyclone> Jax: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/getStarted/cupojava/unix.html

[23:42:26] <Jax> i mean, i'm sure the libraries that microsoft and sun offer, differ slightly?

[23:42:39] *** jk__ has quit IRC

[23:42:40] <Lars_G> Jax: Outcome is the same as long as the JRE is certified.

[23:42:54] <Jax> hm interesting.

[23:42:57] <Jax> thanks cyclone

[23:43:16] <Lars_G> Jax: Most changes in JRE ocurr in performance. Only uncertified JREs are not entirely reliable and must be tested beforehand

[23:43:17] <cyclone> np mate

[23:44:02] <Lars_G> Jax: Since Java is based on a Virtual Machine, having several JREs is safer than say coding in ANSI C and compiling for different target architectures and systems

[23:44:26] <Jax> hm

[23:44:31] <Jax> is there a JDK for windows by Sun ?

[23:44:51] <Jax> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/download.jsp

[23:44:53] <Lars_G> Jax: Only tinkering with machine code in java, calling native OS calls (not something you do inadvertively), and using not std classes can cause JRE trobules.

[23:44:55] <Jax> can't find it there

[23:45:09] <Jax> yeah, seems logical

[23:45:18] <Lars_G> Jax: It is right there!

[23:45:31] <Jax> can i grab the source?

[23:45:33] <Lars_G> Jax: "JDK 5.0 Update 5  includes the JVM technology"

[23:45:42] <Jax> that's the update though?

[23:45:59] <Lars_G> Jax: Not easily, the source to Sun's JDK/JRE is not completely open to have access to it you need to register.

[23:46:08] <Lars_G> Jax: Nyet. that's the JDK, revision 5

[23:46:45] <Lars_G> Jax: Plus the text "The J2SE Development Kit (JDK) supports creating J2SE applications" that acompanies it, should clarify it a little

[23:47:25] <dmlloyd|work> lol, CoderMalfunctionError

[23:47:29] <dmlloyd|work> I throw that all the time

[23:47:46] <Lars_G> dmlloyd|work: DOn't try to fool us.

[23:47:52] <Lars_G> dmlloyd|work: You're a primitive, not a class

[23:48:48] *** YD has quit IRC

[23:48:58] <Erica> jk, under resources, what do I put for cost?

[23:49:26] <Lars_G> Erica: jk has departed

[23:50:44] <tieTYT> does anyone have a good article on the java classloader?

[23:50:48] <tieTYT> i would like to know how it works

[23:51:14] <Jax> Lars_G so do i have to install the JRE too? or can i test in my browser or something (got the plugin there i think)

[23:52:09] <Lars_G> Jax: A) the JDK brings a JRE, B) On the deployment system you will need some form of JRE, for example if you're creating an applet, the opening browser will need the Java plugin.

[23:52:39] <Jax> ok so i should install the Public JDE

[23:52:53] <Jax> guess so, since it's also a standalone, and i don't have one

[23:53:37] <Lars_G> Jax: ?

[23:53:46] <Lars_G> If you download the JDK, the JDK brings a JRE in it.

[23:53:58] <Jax> yeah but on windows, i can select if i want to install it or not..

[23:54:01] <Jax> it's the online installer...

[23:54:13] <Jax> you can select if you want JDK, Public JRE, Demos, API Source Code

[23:56:47] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Congrats, you sold another copy of Ruby

[23:57:07] <Lars_G> Then install both JDK and public JRE :)

[23:57:31] <Erica> I really love this project planner!

[23:57:50] <Erica> chippy planner that jk told me about is really nice.

[23:59:22] <Jax> do you know the book Java Software Soltions, 4th Edition, Prentice Hall, 2005

[23:59:33] <Lars_G> no I do not

[23:59:44] <Jax> i think that's what we are learning this semester
top

   October 25, 2005  
< | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | >