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[00:07:19] <Storkme> i have a java related problem: how can i refer to an image that's in my .jar file
[00:07:37] <ernimril> Storkme: getResource or getResourceAsStream
[00:08:00] <Storkme> which class is that in?
[00:08:06] <Storkme> i'll check the docs
[00:08:10] <ernimril> Class
[00:08:21] <Storkme> fair enough
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[00:10:24] <Terr1> When using PreparedStatement in a LIKE search like: "SELECT * FROM WHATEVER WHERE USERNAME LIKE '%?%' ;" since it comes with error when executing because of the '' I guess? it dosent work without em either?
[00:10:55] <ernimril> Terr1: ?
[00:11:39] <doc|home> Terr1: tried adding the % to the string?
[00:11:41] <ernimril> Terr1: sql="select * from table where some_column like ?"; ps.setObject (1, "hello %");
[00:12:15] <Terr1> yeah I know that option.. just wanted to know if there was a more elegant way like doing some special '' placement
[00:12:25] <Terr1> guess not
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[00:13:17] <tomaczec> hi
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[00:17:12] <tomaczec> got a qst concerning jms: an object connected to a topic using onMessage() can not close the connection to receive incoming messages, right?
[00:18:06] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Ping. I hope your family is safe and sound
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[00:26:07] <Drone> View Terr1's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8531
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[00:27:01] <scalar> good evening
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[00:27:53] <ToastTheif> Hi
[00:28:16] <kibab> Anybody here good with javax.crypto?  A friend and I are trying to relate the result from java to the result from PHP... but they are slightly different... I'll post the source if anybody's interested...
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[00:28:46] <ToastTheif> I have a java question, I figured this would be the place to go, or am I wrong?
[00:29:00] <Honk^away> ToastTheif: dont ask to ask, just ask :)
[00:29:03] <high-bass> hey this is sorta a dump question but how do you get input from a user in java.. say to a string??
[00:29:21] <Honk^away> ~tell high-bass about javadoc scanner
[00:29:22] <javabot> high-bass, please see java.util.Scanner: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/Scanner.html
[00:29:25] <Honk^away> yay =)
[00:29:35] <Honk^away> if you're talking about 1.5 and console that is
[00:29:38] <kibab> Here's the problem statement: "I'm trying to get a string DES encrypted so I can respond to a server request for authorization.  The server is written in Java and the client software is in PHP.  My problem is getting PHP and Java to give the same encrypted string.  See http://pastebin.com/401385 for the code and the results."
[00:29:40] <ToastTheif> ok, well it's sort of complicated, let me use pastebin I guess
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[00:30:23] <Terr1> I got a question about PreparedStatement and ORDER BY dosent seem to work, code:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8531
[00:30:26] <Storkme> if i have a class that needs to use two different filenamefilters
[00:30:31] <Storkme> isthat possible?
[00:31:01] <Honk^away> you could just write one filenamefilter that wraps the other two..
[00:31:06] <scalar> I'm writing my own class loader. the loader successfully loads the class, but them I'm trying to create an instance by getting a Constructor and invoking newInstance on it. that instance is also created successfully (I can store it in an Object). but when I cast the instance to an interface it implements, I get a class cast exception. has anyone seen this before?
[00:31:08] <Honk^away> 4 lines of code ;)
[00:31:16] <scalar> thanks in advance
[00:31:22] <Storkme> what do you mean Honk^away?
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[00:31:49] <high-bass> javadoc.. erm
[00:31:53] <Honk^away> Storkme: looks like i didnt understand your question =)
[00:32:02] <ToastTheif> http://pastebin.com/401412 <--- my question and all that stuff
[00:32:18] <Storkme> i have a class which needs two different filenamefilters
[00:32:30] <high-bass> hmm i dont think the one i am thinking about is javadoc...
[00:32:35] <Honk^away> Storkme: explain that
[00:32:50] <Storkme> Clackwell: i need to use File.list() more then once
[00:32:56] <Storkme> for different types of files
[00:32:57] <Honk^away> high-bass: i think it is
[00:33:01] <Storkme> stupid auto complete :\
[00:33:03] <Honk^away> cuz all classes are in there :P
[00:33:09] <high-bass> o ya.
[00:33:21] <Honk^away> Storkme: yeah.. so what? :)
[00:33:33] <Storkme> so can i have more then one filenamefilter :\ ?
[00:33:50] <Honk^away> Storkme: that's like asking if you can have more than one int
[00:33:57] <Honk^away> of course you can..
[00:34:00] <Storkme> but how?
[00:34:04] <high-bass> well i did java programming in grade 12.. long time ago.. and i dont remmber how we used to get input from keyboard back then... but in a class im takin currently we used JOptionPane.. etc.. to do the work... i just wanted to remind myself of the old way of doing it and i guess you might be right im gonna check it out
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[00:34:41] <scalar> hi. here's the source that I'm trying to make work: http://pastebin.com/401414
[00:34:51] <Storkme> how honk?
[00:34:51] <IseeIsee> if I want to print an array on screen in 2X2 form, how can I do it
[00:34:57] <scalar> could anyone who's worked with class loaders before please take a look at it?
[00:35:04] <IseeIsee> the println function automatically inserts nextline
[00:35:15] <Honk^away> Storkme: just create several classes?
[00:35:26] <Storkme> IseeIsee: System.out.print
[00:35:35] <Storkme> alright Honk^away
[00:35:42] <Honk^away> high-bass: that's why i asked if you were talking about console input
[00:35:50] <ToastTheif> e i am thinking about is javadoc...
[00:35:50] <ToastTheif> [18:32] <Honk^away> Storkme: explain that
[00:35:50] <ToastTheif> [18:32] <Storkme> Clackwell: i need to us
[00:35:54] <ToastTheif> oops
[00:35:55] <ToastTheif> sorry
[00:36:00] <Honk^away> ~tell high-bass about javadoc joptionpane
[00:36:01] <javabot> high-bass, please see javax.swing.JOptionPane: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/javax/swing/JOptionPane.html
[00:36:12] <Storkme> i'm looking at that atm, lol
[00:36:12] <Honk^away> read that if you want some pseudo-gui-input ;)
[00:36:21] <ToastTheif> My code and what Im trying to do, if anyone could help http://pastebin.com/401412
[00:36:36] <IseeIsee> thanks Storkme
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[00:36:48] <Storkme> no problem :D
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[00:36:51] <Kira> weird...
[00:36:56] <Honk^away> heh, not being able to copy that url into a browser sucks
[00:37:08] <ToastTheif> ?
[00:37:27] <Honk^away> =)
[00:37:47] <Kira> I fire up the JDK 1.5.0_05 installer, it finishes installing itself and launches the jre installer. The JRE installer shows up in simplified Chinese. o_O
[00:37:49] <ToastTheif> you can't copt http://pastebin.com/401412 ?
[00:37:53] <Kira> My system is not even set to use Chinese.
[00:38:05] <Honk^away> ToastTheif: i cant copy anything :)
[00:38:09] <ToastTheif> oh
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[00:38:30] <ToastTheif> can't u just click on the link? HydraIRC lets u
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[00:38:45] <ernimril> ~tell ToastTheif about aolbonics
[00:38:46] <javabot> ToastTheif, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
[00:39:04] <high-bass> thanks for the info Honk... actually i just wanted to remmeber how to get input the non GUI way... its been a while sincce i used java so thanks again
[00:39:41] <Honk^away> high-bass: well.. scanner in 1.5
[00:39:52] <Honk^away> or a bufferedreader around system.in in earlier versions :)
[00:40:04] <ToastTheif> ok, well anyway, http://tinyurl.com/bt9uz does that help?
[00:40:12] <ToastTheif> heh
[00:40:15] <Honk^away> hehe
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[00:42:07] <Honk^away> what's snipe?
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[00:42:57] <ToastTheif> oh
[00:43:01] <ToastTheif> my variable
[00:43:15] <ToastTheif> snipe is the "square" it picks
[00:43:24] <ToastTheif> 0-100
[00:44:04] <ToastTheif> Im trying to figure out how to convert the "square" it picks to coords on the screen
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[00:44:33] <Honk^away> well.. calculate x and y first i'd say :p
[00:44:40] <Honk^away> x = mousex/30 ish, same with y
[00:44:55] <Honk^away> square = x+columncount*y
[00:44:55] <ToastTheif> yeah, I tried that
[00:45:03] <Honk^away> done :]
[00:45:20] <ToastTheif> meh, I don't understand math, heh
[00:45:26] <Honk^away> or maybe you even wanna use a 2d array? ;)
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[00:45:50] <ToastTheif> yeah
[00:45:52] <ToastTheif> I am
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[00:46:21] <ToastTheif> int space[][]
[00:46:21] <Honk^away> huh? =)
[00:46:29] <Honk^away> then why do you need one variable as result?
[00:46:30] <My2cents> Does anyone here run sun java 1.5 on fedora core4? or similar linux flavor?
[00:46:30] <ToastTheif> that's my 2d array, for drawing the board
[00:46:38] <Honk^away> you should want (x,y) as coords
[00:46:38] <ToastTheif> Im not sure lol
[00:46:58] <ToastTheif> yeah, Im really not to good with math =/
[00:47:15] <ToastTheif> too*
[00:48:41] <ToastTheif> Im just learning about matrices in math class, and starting to use them in java now, so it's all a bit confusing to me
[00:48:41] <Honk^away> that's another reason not to convert from (x,y) to (x+w*y) to (x,y) :p
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[00:50:35] <ToastTheif> so what Im trying to get basically, is the formula to convery snipe, to coords, each square is 20x20
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[00:51:37] <ToastTheif> if snipe = 1-10, that's easy, but once I get to like 11+ my great formula of snipe*30 and snipe*30+20 doesn't work
[00:52:29] <Honk^away> did you listen at all to what i said?
[00:52:50] <Honk^away> why do you calculate with 1d snipe while trying to access that 2d array?
[00:53:07] <ToastTheif> Im not sure heh
[00:53:16] <Honk^away> then dont do it :]
[00:53:27] <ToastTheif> I don't think I quite grasp 2d arrays, I just know I need them
[00:54:01] <ToastTheif> oh wait, I know why
[00:54:28] <Honk^away> unless you've got a reason to.. then use y=s/width, x=s%width
[00:54:30] <Honk^away> :p
[00:54:33] <ToastTheif> because snipe is just the square # that is picked randomly, then I have to convert that square # to coords
[00:54:48] <Honk^away> but you calculate snipe from x and y values
[00:55:03] <ToastTheif> no
[00:55:12] <ToastTheif> int snipe = (int)(Math.round(Math.random()*100));
[00:55:22] <Honk^away> you do
[00:55:29] <Honk^away> d'oh
[00:55:29] <Honk^away> (lag :P)
[00:55:36] <Honk^away> well.. make snipe 2d?
[00:55:40] <Honk^away> snipex, snipey
[00:55:49] <Terr1> I got a question about PreparedStatement and ORDER BY dosent seem to work, code:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8531
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[00:56:06] <ToastTheif> hmm
[00:56:51] <Honk^away> and use yourarray.length :p
[00:57:01] <Honk^away> so it's a bit more flexible, if you feel like changing the size ;)
[00:57:12] <ToastTheif> not sure what that is
[00:57:30] <ToastTheif> this coding stuff is so hard, heh
[00:57:43] <vinse> ~barbie
[00:57:43] <javabot> <barbie>math is hard!</barbie>
[00:57:57] <ToastTheif> well, yeah
[00:58:03] <ToastTheif> math is hard ;)
[00:58:15] <ToastTheif> thanks anyway Honk, I'll try to figure out what you said
[00:58:25] <ToastTheif> cya
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[01:00:32] <vinse> Terr1: i dont think your sort string is right, despite your claim that it is. if it was what you have there would work ... doesnt getSelectedIndex return an int?
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[01:02:14] <vinse> nm read wrong
[01:03:03] <Terr1> vinse, I tried using "EMAILADDRESS" instead of the getselected... dosent work either? dosent order by work when setting the string afterwards? seems so
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[01:03:13] <Storkme> what's the max length of a char
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[01:04:37] <rangerkevy> Anybody able to help out a newbie with i'm sure a really obvious question? I have absolutely no Java or JSP experience at all and am trying to install a CMS system called open cms that is JSP based. The default connection string is jdbc:mysql://localhost:3306/ but it keeps saying error connecting. Any ideas why? or how I can fix this??
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[01:05:56] <Honk^away> start up msql? ;)
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[01:06:33] <JavJ> hey
[01:06:45] <rangerkevy> hmm haha brb
[01:06:48] <Storkme> how come a perfectly fine looking char in the console doesn't come out properly to text files?
[01:08:01] <Drone> View 's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8532
[01:08:23] <JavJ> anyone mind havin a look at my prog?
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[01:09:06] <Drone> View JavJ's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8533
[01:11:33] <Honk^away> Storkme: charset prolly
[01:13:25] <tomaczec> Storkme, prolly an utf-8 problem.
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[01:15:08] <Honk^away> javabot: yeh, that's some bad looking code =) great
[01:15:08] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'code conventions' might be appropriate:
[01:15:10] <javabot> Honk^away, code conventions is http://java.sun.com/docs/codeconv/html/CodeConvTOC.doc.html
[01:15:28] <jberg> im installing jcreator and it says i need jdk 1.5.0, but im getting all confused with jdk sdk j2see 1.5.0 5.0 etc etc
[01:15:35] <tomaczec> Storkme, a char outside of [a-zA-z0-9]?
[01:15:35] <jberg> what do i need to download?
[01:15:51] <Honk^away> gah :)
[01:16:01] <Honk^away> that was supposed to go to JavJ :)
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[01:16:42] <Honk^away> jberg: j2se jdk 1.5 (with jdk == sdk and 1.5 == 5.0)
[01:16:56] <tomaczec> jberg, jdk 1.5.0 is java 5.0
[01:17:28] <jberg> ah ok thanks
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[01:18:02] <jberg> but it says application server and it looks like it wants to install some sort of server on my computer, what is that all about?
[01:18:53] <Stork> tomaczec: yes, sometimes
[01:20:48] <rangerkevy> I'm about to make my last newbie question look complicated. How do I start mysql? Both apache and tomcat can be started through control panel/admin tools/services. But how do you start mysql?
[01:21:21] <Siph0n_> Can someone tell me why this code: http://rafb.net/paste/results/rdEhAa46.html throws a nullpointerexception on Windows and Linux but not Mac OS X?
[01:21:33] <Siph0n_> any info is appreciated
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[01:24:27] <ernimril> Siph0n_: where do you get the npe?
[01:24:28] <Honk^away> Siph0n_: you expect us to guess where the error occurs, dont you?
[01:25:00] <Siph0n_> I believe it's on the while loop.
[01:25:00] * Honk^away tries reading Siph0n_'s mind
[01:25:05] <Honk^away> Siph0n_: lol
[01:25:08] <Honk^away> dont believe
[01:25:10] <Honk^away> read the errormsg
[01:25:12] <ernimril> Siph0n_: your code indicates that you either do longtime operations on the edt or that you are off the edt doing swing stuff...
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[01:25:31] <Siph0n_> edt?
[01:25:33] <ernimril> Siph0n_: stop guessing, get the stacktrace
[01:25:41] <Siph0n_> meh gimme a sec
[01:25:44] <ernimril> Siph0n_: and find out where the npe is
[01:25:51] <ernimril> ~tell Siph0n_ about edt
[01:25:52] <javabot> Siph0n_, edt is Event Dispatch Thread, the thread that drives the swing gui. See http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/misc/threads.html for a tutorial on swing and threads
[01:27:22] <Siph0n_> I'm off the edt doing minor swing stuff, as i declared my main jframe public static to attach that dialog box to it
[01:27:37] <Siph0n_> that code runs in a seperate thread
[01:27:44] <Siph0n_> so it doens't lag the gui
[01:28:04] <Siph0n_> let me switch systems really quick
[01:28:14] <ernimril> Siph0n_: if you do swing/graphics stuff off the edt then anything can and will happen. Probably not the cause of your npe, but still...
[01:28:35] <Siph0n_> Yeah I suppose I hsould change it to null..
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[01:29:08] <ernimril> Siph0n_: change what to null? you need to update the gui by using invokeLater or invokeAndWait
[01:29:34] <ernimril> Siph0n_: and reading that edt page that javabot told you about is a good thing...
[01:29:57] <ernimril> Siph0n_: and we are still waiting for a stacktrace
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[01:30:35] <Storkme> how come a perfectly fine looking char in the console doesn't come out properly to text files?
[01:30:56] <ernimril> Storkme: define properly
[01:31:11] <ernimril> Storkme: what encoding do you use for the file? what encoding does your shell use?
[01:31:30] <Storkme> not a shell
[01:31:36] <Storkme> how can i specify encoding?
[01:32:01] <ernimril> Storkme: did you try searching the javadoc?
[01:32:03] <Storkme> i'm using a BufferedWriter
[01:32:04] <Siph0n_> I'm working on the stacktrace...
[01:32:08] <Storkme> i'll check now
[01:32:33] <ernimril> Storkme: you should always check the javadoc before you ask, you look less silly that way...
[01:32:47] <Storkme> there isn't anything anyway
[01:33:08] <Siph0n_> Yes there is, use UTF-8 encoding
[01:33:16] <ernimril> Storkme: ok, so you have not learned to search the api yet then...
[01:33:20] <Storkme> where do i specify it?
[01:33:30] <JavJ> hey lads, i'm having a bit of trouble implementing quick sort..... the partitioning bit is a mystry to me
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[01:33:35] <Storkme> please don't patronise me
[01:33:40] <ernimril> Storkme: OutputStreamWriter
[01:33:57] <tomaczec> again, utf-8 will snap back... you need to know what you do. tell the audience...
[01:34:29] <ernimril> JavJ: was that a question or did you just want to make a statement?
[01:35:41] <Siph0n_> Stacktrace points to javax.crypto.CipherInputStream.a in that file...
[01:35:58] <tomaczec> ernimril, unless he uses a question mark it is a statement. not?
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[01:36:10] <Honk^away> ernimril: he pasted some code earlier and wanted us to look at it :)
[01:36:19] <Siph0n_> Therefore it'd be line 26 or 29
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[01:36:21] <Honk^away> didnt ask anything :}
[01:36:30] <Honk^away> Siph0n_: "or"?
[01:36:37] <Honk^away> the stacktrace gives you the exact line
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[01:37:28] <Siph0n_> Like I assumed it's the while loop
[01:37:31] <Siph0n_> :P
[01:37:33] <Siph0n_> Line 128
[01:37:40] <Siph0n_> or line 29 in that code
[01:37:40] <dvoss> Those of you who have programmed Mac OS X know about NSNotificationCenters. Does Java offer a similar facility?
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[01:38:45] <Siph0n_> Programmed on OS X in ObjC?
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[01:38:49] <dvoss> Yeah.
[01:39:02] <Siph0n_> No idea >_>
[01:39:06] <Siph0n_> I loathe ObjC
[01:39:06] <Honk^away> Siph0n_: that's kinda impossible
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[01:39:10] <dvoss> Though Java on OS X probably has NSNotificationCenters too.
[01:39:20] <dvoss> But I'm not on OS X, I'm doing straight Java.
[01:39:20] <Siph0n_> How Honk^away?
[01:39:26] <Honk^away> put the complete stacktrace on the pasteboard please
[01:39:32] <Siph0n_> yessir
[01:39:33] <Honk^away> Siph0n_: cuz you cannot get a npe in that line =)
[01:39:47] <Siph0n_> I'll put the stacktrace and the whole file
[01:39:49] <Siph0n_> please hold
[01:40:03] <Honk^away> while ((numRead = cin.read(buf)) >= 0) { <-- cin cannot be null, and nothing else is capable of throwing a npe :)
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[01:40:30] <tomaczec> to my knowledge, the mac ppl code jvm on their own... be aware of this when answering qsts.
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[01:40:59] <Storkme> i've looked at BufferedWriter and there's no mention of charset, so i'll try a PrintWriter
[01:41:19] <Honk^away> Storkme: you can combine 'em =)
[01:41:28] <Storkme> would i need to?
[01:41:38] <Storkme> PrintWriter looks easier
[01:41:59] <Honk^away> you dont have to do anything
[01:42:00] <Honk^away> :)
[01:42:08] <dvoss> tomaczec: I am doing regular Java, I'm just wondering if regular Java has something with similar functionality.
[01:42:47] <tomaczec> dvoss, you are on a mac, not?
[01:43:26] <dvoss> tomaczec, no, I'm on a PC. I am not writing a platform-specific application.
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[01:44:00] <Drone> View JavJ's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8534
[01:44:07] <JavJ> can anyone help me with this?
[01:44:11] <mohadib> \0/ FRIDAY!
[01:44:22] <JavJ> i keep gettin an arrayoutofbounds exception, cant find help anywhere
[01:44:29] <Storkme> mohadib: just another day
[01:44:49] <Siph0n_> Honk^away: Code: http://rafb.net/paste/results/HvGph648.html   Stacktrace: http://rafb.net/paste/results/pZSeN947.html
[01:45:04] <mohadib> Storkme: no , its friday , payday , and ... its gonna be a good night
[01:45:07] <dvoss> JavJ, which line are you getting the error on?
[01:45:17] <Storkme> someone's feeling positive
[01:45:38] * mohadib polishes his paltforms with the gold fish in the heel
[01:45:58] <tomaczec> dvoss, didnt you say Mac? and the Mac is _not_ platform neutral!
[01:46:11] <dvoss> mohadib, yeah, but you know what happened to those platforms in that movie...
[01:46:11] <Honk^away> Siph0n_: aw well.. you get the npe from cin.read() =)
[01:46:25] <Siph0n_> :\
[01:46:26] <mohadib> dvoss: ;)
[01:46:31] <mohadib> JavJ: dvoss++
[01:46:38] <mohadib> javabot: dvoss++
[01:46:38] <Siph0n_> You probably know my next question...Why?
[01:46:39] <javabot> dvoss has a karma level of 1, mohadib
[01:46:40] <Storkme> pssht
[01:46:54] <Honk^away> Siph0n_: no clue :)
[01:46:56] <dvoss> tomaczec, I said that if you've programmed a Mac, you know what an NSNotificationCenter is.
[01:46:59] <Siph0n_> hehe
[01:47:02] <Honk^away> one of the arguments you passed to cin is null prolly
[01:47:08] <Honk^away> buff, pm or that other thingy
[01:47:11] <Storkme> so, i tried UTF-8 encoding and it still didn't work
[01:47:31] <Siph0n_> I've programmed a Mac, I'm programming on a Mac now, and I don't know jack about NSNotificationCenter
[01:47:51] <Honk^away> dcipher prolly
[01:47:56] <Siph0n_> hmm
[01:48:09] <dvoss> Siph0n_, really? You've never used 'em?
[01:48:10] <Honk^away> sysout it :)
[01:48:15] <Siph0n_> It works on Mac OS X.
[01:48:22] <Siph0n_> But not windows or linux
[01:48:28] <Siph0n_> For what reason, I don't know...
[01:48:45] <Honk^away> i'm not saying it is null, but there's a good possibility that that specific cipher just isnt implemented on suns jdk ;)
[01:48:59] <Siph0n_> If you look closer, I'm using bc :P
[01:49:17] <Drone> View JavJ's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8535
[01:49:33] <JavJ> dvoss: sorry i put up a new pastebin code.... comments fecked up the last one
[01:50:00] <JavJ> error on line 52, 18 and 32
[01:50:13] <Siph0n_> I'll sysout every arg passed to cin and see which one turns up null
[01:50:16] <tomaczec> dvoss, i am a bit unsure why you sit around here. you can give a good reason or not. whatever...
[01:50:18] <Storkme> ~console
[01:50:18] * javabot hands console a soothing mug of hot chocolate and a cookie.
[01:50:30] <JavJ> i think the partition method is a bit messed up
[01:50:35] <Storkme> that was odd
[01:50:39] <Storkme> ~javadoc console
[01:50:39] <javabot> I don't know of any documentation for console
[01:51:01] <Honk^away> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/guide/security/jce/JCERefGuide.html#AppA
[01:51:04] <Honk^away> Siph0n_: :P
[01:51:18] <Honk^away> what's bc anyway? =)
[01:52:02] <mohadib> ~mohadib
[01:52:03] <javabot> mohadib, mohadib is a playa pimpin' dem hoez and blinging with his gold teef and 22" rimz
[01:52:14] <JavJ> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8535 - anyone lend a hand with my prog?
[01:52:17] <mohadib> w000rd
[01:52:42] <mohadib> javabot: slava++
[01:52:42] <Honk^away> JavJ: if you dont start asking a proper question, you'll never get any help =)
[01:52:42] <javabot> slava has a karma level of 120, mohadib
[01:53:26] <Siph0n_> bc = bouncycastle
[01:53:45] <mohadib> = jonk from waht i hear
[01:53:50] <JavJ> honk: alright sorry lads, just gettin the hang of this ;)
[01:53:50] <mohadib> junk
[01:53:54] <Siph0n_> nah it's good
[01:53:59] <Siph0n_> just large
[01:54:08] <Siph0n_> and if you nitpick anything out of the jar, it probably won't work
[01:54:24] <JavJ> i'm gettin an arrayIndexOutOfBounds error on lines 52, 32 and 18 on this - http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8535
[01:54:31] <Siph0n_> if i have to i'll use cryptix
[01:54:41] <JavJ> and its drivin me nuts 8)
[01:54:57] <Honk^away> JavJ: the error is only on line 18 :P
[01:55:05] <Honk^away> which is called from line 32 which is called from line 52
[01:55:17] <JavJ> ah right....
[01:55:20] <Honk^away> (or the other way, dunno how you posted it)
[01:55:43] <JavJ> :)
[01:55:48] <tomaczec> 18!
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[01:56:46] <JavJ> cheers honk, still driving me nuts though, even if i change the parameters its still givin me errors
[01:57:13] <Honk^away> JavJ: ask someone else, i cant be bothered to fix some nasty sorting algorithm right now :}
[01:57:25] <JavJ> any takers?
[01:57:37] <Storkme> anyone know some decent msn messenger api's ?
[01:57:49] <JavJ> pls? i'm up at 1am tryin to fix this thing, kept me up till 4 last night!
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[02:00:04] <dvoss> JavJ, if I get stuck like that on something short like this, I usually rewrite from scratch. That typically solves the problem. :)
[02:00:33] <JavJ> might just do that, 'm off to spain on wednesday gotta get this project finished by then
[02:02:53] <mohadib> !seen roots
[02:02:57] <mohadib> !seen roots-
[02:02:59] <Drone> Roots (Roots!i=olsen at 65 dot 70.207.92) was last seen in ##java on Tue 30 Aug 2005 09:24 GMT, saying 'The HTML source Firefox gives me is different than the plain text souce I have uploaded there'.
[02:02:59] <Drone> roots- (roots-!n=sr at 195 dot 78.40.73) was last seen in ##java on Fri 21 Oct 2005 16:59 GMT, saying 'cu guys'.
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[02:10:00] <zanmato> JavJ you're getting an error because int t1 = pArray[x]; where x is one of the ints stored in pArray -> not within bounds. Check your creation of x =)
[02:10:24] <JavJ> cheers will do
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[02:12:26] <JavJ> zanmato = your right, but will i have to create a new int variable to get the swap method working?
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[02:17:06] <kinabalu> has anyone on here succesfully compiled mod_caucho on OSX
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[02:27:27] <tirunculus_javae> Hi, can someone tell me why I get an UnsupportedOperationException with this line: replacementsList.remove(i);?  replacementsList is an ArrayList declared by: List<String> = replacementsList = Arrays.asList(replacements);.  Any ideas?
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[02:28:12] <bpalmer> such a list may not support removing
[02:28:21] <bpalmer> try creating a new array list based off of it
[02:28:45] <bpalmer> replacementsList = new ArrayList(replacements);  // or maybe new ArrayList(Arrays.asList(replacements));
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[02:28:54] <bpalmer> I don't remember ArrayList's constructor options
[02:29:09] <tirunculus_javae> Thanks, I
[02:29:12] <tirunculus_javae> I'll try that
[02:29:34] <tirunculus_javae> It'll have to be the 2nd one though
[02:31:10] <tirunculus_javae> Hmm, I get an unchecked conversion warning, but it works at least :)
[02:31:31] <tirunculus_javae> Doubt theres a way around that, but thanks bpalmer
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[02:33:31] <zanmato> just using List is getting you the unsupportedoperationexception, because list is an interface tirunculus_javae
[02:34:00] * dibblego shudders
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[02:34:23] <bpalmer> zanmato: that's not the reason why
[02:34:28] <tirunculus_javae> zanmato: What would that do?
[02:34:40] <bpalmer> the class that is implementing the interface in this case just throws that
[02:34:56] <dibblego> tirunculus_javae: the List interface is a hack that permits you to "remove" operations with runtime safety (by throwing an UnsupportedOperationException)
[02:34:58] <bpalmer> there are contexts in which List.remove(i) would work
[02:35:00] <dibblego> ~javadoc java.util.List
[02:35:00] <javabot> dibblego, please see java.util.List: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/List.html
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[02:35:19] <zanmato> bpalmer yes it is, because it also explains his unchecked conversion
[02:35:22] <dibblego> you likely invoking one of those "optional" (chuckle) operations
[02:35:36] <dibblego> zanmato: no it doesn't
[02:35:46] <dibblego> that warning is the result of the (mis)use of generics
[02:36:05] <bpalmer> zanmato: it explains it in much the same way my wearing black today explains Columbus's getting funding from Ferdinand and Isabella
[02:36:07] <dibblego> along with -source 1.5
[02:36:21] <dibblego> http://jqa.tmorris.net/GetQAndA.action?qids=70&showAnswers=true
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[02:37:59] <tirunculus_javae> Thanks for the link dibblego; explains UnsupportedOperationException's a bit better
[02:38:07] <dibblego> np
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[02:47:37] <vinse> crikey
[02:47:44] <vinse> how is it already 6 o'clock
[02:48:19] <dibblego> because it was 5 o'clock an hour ago
[02:49:11] <vinse> woah you just blew my mind
[02:49:16] <vinse> so wait
[02:49:22] <vinse> what time will it be in an hour?
[02:50:19] <dibblego> depends
[02:50:28] <dibblego> 1150 for me
[02:50:35] <dibblego> but for you, that's tricky
[02:53:36] <mohadib> howdy dibblego
[02:54:08] <dibblego> hey mate
[02:54:19] <mohadib> hows it going?
[02:54:26] <dibblego> not too bad
[02:54:55] * mohadib nods :) its friday
[02:55:03] <dibblego> even better, Saturday :)
[02:55:06] <mohadib> heh
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[03:09:43] <mohadib> !seen roots
[03:09:45] <Drone> Roots (Roots!i=olsen at 65 dot 70.207.92) was last seen in ##java on Tue 30 Aug 2005 09:24 GMT, saying 'The HTML source Firefox gives me is different than the plain text souce I have uploaded there'.
[03:09:46] <mohadib> !seen roots-
[03:09:48] <Drone> roots- (roots-!n=sr at 195 dot 78.40.73) was last seen in ##java on Fri 21 Oct 2005 16:59 GMT, saying 'cu guys'.
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[03:10:08] <dibblego> roots- wouldn't say what roots says
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[03:19:41] <jwormy> fucker took my nickname!
[03:19:55] <AssHat> heh
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[03:30:04] <mohadib> ~jwormy
[03:30:04] <javabot> mohadib, jwormy is my favorite asshat
[03:30:08] * mohadib nods
[03:30:35] <GurliGebis> I'm going through some java code, and found this ">>>" some place where it's shifting. Whats the difference between >>> and >> ?
[03:30:51] <dibblego> ~tell GurliGebis about operators
[03:30:51] <javabot> GurliGebis, operators is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/operators.html
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[03:48:21] <paulweb515_> Wow, I've never had the op to use >>>
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[04:07:09] <kur1j> Exception in thread "AWT-EventQueue-0" java.lang.NullPointerException
[04:07:18] <d03boy> I'm having a problem where ArrayList<String>.remove("something that isnt in the arraylist"); is not returning false. Is this normal or am I overlooking something?
[04:07:28] <dibblego> ~tell kur1j about npe
[04:07:29] <javabot> kur1j, npe is http://www.tmorris.net/pubs/npe/ or alternatively http://lavender.cime.net/~ricky/java-errors/NullPointerException.html
[04:07:45] <dibblego> d03boy: probably, provide a test case
[04:07:50] <d03boy> ok
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[04:09:34] <d03boy> ok
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[04:33:26] <kur1j> yay fixed with pure luck
[04:33:27] <kur1j> go me
[04:33:28] <kur1j> lol
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[04:42:09] <My2cents> Hi, is anyone here running suns java on linux?
[04:42:24] <dibblego> doing a survey?
[04:42:59] <My2cents> dibblego, no lol, i am trying to install it on my new linux box, but i am new to linux and don't understand some issues i am having, wondering if someone could give me a hand.
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[04:45:33] <My2cents> and then everyone disappears lol, well i guess i'll just ask and if you know the answer please say it :)
[04:45:49] <dibblego> ask what?
[04:45:55] <dibblego> ~install
[04:45:55] <javabot> dibblego, install is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/install.html
[04:45:59] <delvinj> the answer is: 13
[04:46:03] <My2cents> i have that installed
[04:46:07] <My2cents> but i can't run anything
[04:46:32] <dibblego> you're not going to be specific are you?
[04:47:09] <dibblego> I support customers like that
[04:47:14] <dibblego> "I have an error, why?"
[04:47:25] <My2cents> when i type something like java i get "-bash: java: command not found
[04:47:30] <dibblego> yay!
[04:47:36] <dibblego> you didn't follow the install instructions
[04:47:39] <My2cents> lol
[04:47:40] <dibblego> ~tell My2cents about install
[04:47:40] <javabot> My2cents, install is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/install.html
[04:47:50] <My2cents> dibblego, i did everything on there
[04:48:18] <dibblego> n-o no
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[04:48:50] <kur1j> ok maybe someone has some tips or information on how I should set this up... I am making an applet that has 5 check boxes that when checked are supposed to display a JOptionPane that displays which ones are checked
[04:49:03] <My2cents> dibblego, is there a classpath like windows i can set?
[04:49:19] <dibblego> My2cents: windows doesn't have a classpath; and you should never set your classpath in any case
[04:49:26] <dibblego> you set the PATH environment variable
[04:49:36] <My2cents> dibblego, lol thats what i meant
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[04:51:07] <My2cents> does linux have a PATH environment variable? :P
[04:51:29] <dibblego> Linux supports the concept of environment variables
[04:51:49] <My2cents> your not going to make this easy are you? :P
[04:52:06] <dibblego> "you're"
[04:52:11] <dibblego> this isn't a Linux channel
[04:52:27] <dibblego> if you can't set the PATH envvar, you have some serious reading to do
[04:52:37] <dibblego> on Linux, not Java
[05:01:22] <d03boy> I'm having a problem where ArrayList<String>.remove("something that isnt in the arraylist"); is not returning false. (I think.. here is some code)
[05:01:27] <Drone> View d03boy's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8536
[05:02:39] <dibblego> d03boy: you've added "Contact" instances, not "String" instances
[05:03:10] <d03boy> wow... good thing you're here to fix my silly mistakes :P
[05:03:28] <dibblego> no, I won't comment on the silly mistakes :)
[05:04:45] <d03boy> I guess I should've have tried simplifying that code so quickly :(
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[05:24:19] * pr3d4t0r has landed.
[05:29:09] * Amnesiac shots pr3d4t0r
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[05:38:05] <dibblego> hello The_Vulture
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[05:39:15] <The_Vulture> hey dibblego
[05:39:32] <cheeser> howdy The_Vulture, dibblego
[05:39:39] * Amnesiac smacks The_Vulture
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[05:40:01] <The_Vulture> Well looks like I might be joining your 'illustrious' company. Had an interview and job offer with IBM on Wednesday. Though I'm hanging out for my Microsoft interview coming up on Monday
[05:40:05] <The_Vulture> g'day cheeser
[05:40:14] <cheeser> The_Vulture: congrats.
[05:40:20] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture!!!
[05:40:32] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: g'day
[05:40:33] <pr3d4t0r> Great.
[05:40:43] <pr3d4t0r> Another pedantic Aussie joining IBM...
[05:40:47] <Amnesiac> heh
[05:40:48] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Oh, hi!!!
[05:40:53] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Didn't see you here!
[05:40:53] <Amnesiac> David: things went good on IBM?
[05:40:56] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: ;)
[05:41:17] <The_Vulture> hehe - well hopefully it'll be Microsoft in Redmond instead - then I'll be able to catch up with you in the real world at some point
[05:41:22] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Congratulations dude.  When will you know which way you're going?
[05:41:26] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Indeed.
[05:41:35] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Dude, we had a blast in Orlando.
[05:41:48] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: http://eugeneciurana.com/personal/images/Everybody-at-sushi.jpg
[05:42:09] <The_Vulture> Microsoft interview on Monday, though I get the impression that's the first day of interviews - I know at least of people interviewing on Friday. So I wouldn't expect to hear back for at least a week.. though I don't know how MS does it's recruitment
[05:42:11] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: http://eugeneciurana.com/musings/JavaInAction.html
[05:42:30] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Are you going to their office or are they coming to you?
[05:43:02] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: If the latter, expect a follow-up interview at one of their offices before they move forward.  That's when they'll really grill you.
[05:43:31] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Anyway, I'm leaving my office now after saving the world.  I'll see you guys tomorrow.
[05:43:37] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Congratulations again.
[05:44:05] <Amnesiac> have fun pr3d4t0r
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[05:44:10] <jwormy> The_Vulture, you're stateside?
[05:44:50] <The_Vulture> jwormy: not yet
[05:45:14] <The_Vulture> Microsoft are interviewing in Sydney starting Monday. If I get a job with them it'll mean moving to Microsoftville (Redmond)
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[05:45:29] <Amnesiac> The_Vulture, no more AU for you :P
[05:45:40] <jwormy> kick ass (if you're interested in working for a huge company)
[05:45:53] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: see you later, and I assume you'll read this when you get back: They are coming to Australia, but this is the second interview. The first was done by international phone call
[05:46:04] <jwormy> The_Vulture, i was just thinking about you today when i decided if i ever met this guy from AU i was going to choke him.
[05:46:17] <vinse> ~jwormy
[05:46:18] <javabot> vinse, jwormy is my favorite asshat
[05:46:35] <dibblego> The_Vulture: have you had an offer from IBM?
[05:46:50] <The_Vulture> jwormy: I'd like to at least for maybe 3 years. Then consider doing furthur academic stuff (either in computer science or another area, possibly law) then looking at longer term goals - more work in a big company up through the ranks, or starting my own, etc
[05:47:11] <The_Vulture> dibblego: Yeah, spent all day interviewing then got a phone call with an offer about two hours after I left. The paper based offer came in the mail yesterday
[05:47:26] <dibblego> Sydney?
[05:47:29] <dibblego> I was down there last week
[05:47:33] <dibblego> at St. Leonards
[05:47:44] <The_Vulture> They know I'm waiting to see how my Microsoft interview goes (they asked me during the interview process if I was applying for anywhere else). Yeah, though my interview was in Pyrmont, not St. Leonards
[05:47:57] <The_Vulture> Hehe - should have emailed me or something :) how'd the prize-giving thing go?
[05:48:17] <dibblego> I lucked out, but didn't try as hard as some other the guys
[05:48:30] <dibblego> I just like the trip to Sydney, free dinner, etc.
[05:48:34] <jwormy> The_Vulture, yea its further academics or my own company for me.. right now i am doing contract work but i am ready to start something and hire some people because i have more work than i can handle...
[05:48:57] <dibblego> what did the interviewers say to "only if Microsoft don't"?
[05:50:06] <The_Vulture> dibblego: Well the interviewer was actually quite happy to hear an honest answer. We joked several times about how my answers were at least outside the cookie-cutter mold all the other applicants seemed to follow.
[05:50:38] <dibblego> honesty prevails in job interviews
[05:50:43] <dibblego> certainly in my experience
[05:50:59] <The_Vulture> When I got the offer they mentioned that they had discussed that - and said they'd never encountered such a situation before. Though they had gone out of their way to explain that they could provide the sort of technical position I might want, so I said I certainly had something more to think about.
[05:51:02] <dibblego> my interview with IBM was successful because I was honest about how I don't like surfing; and prefer other activities
[05:51:12] <The_Vulture> thoigh I'm still pretty sure if I get an offer from MS I'll take it.
[05:51:12] <jwormy> lol
[05:51:14] <dibblego> I touched on my technical ability while I was there
[05:51:34] <dibblego> The_Vulture: HR people :)
[05:51:48] <The_Vulture> dibblego: *nods*
[05:52:17] <The_Vulture> Actually the main interview I had on Wednesday (4 short interviews with different people & an aptitude test) was good because I got to talk to people in non-HR positions at IBM.
[05:52:27] <The_Vulture> Got to have a good chat about coding, IP, etc.
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[05:52:51] <dibblego> what makes you go with MS instead of IBM?
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[05:55:28] <The_Vulture> Well partly because I'd be starting in BCS - consulting. Noisy on-site positions, though I suppose I ought to get some exposure to client negotiations, etc. Microsoft just seem to have a better reputation for their development process & work environment. (or a good one, and I don't have enough of a sens about IBM to compare)
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[05:55:41] <The_Vulture> Also just the chance to move overseas - change of scenery for a while at least.
[05:55:51] <The_Vulture> Even if only to find that I prefer Australia, and move back here.
[05:56:00] <dibblego> furry nuts
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[05:56:47] <The_Vulture> I guess it might also depend on where Microsoft want to put me - they reckon they are mainly looking for people to go in to the Windows Server group. And I'm not so interested in that area (I'd rather use Linux on a server, though that might be an asset)
[05:59:17] <dibblego> BCS are the elite; they pretend to be at least
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[05:59:57] <The_Vulture> hehe - what's the name of your area?
[06:00:08] <dibblego> Tivoli (SWG - Software Group)
[06:00:23] <dibblego> I'm under IBMA (not IBMGSA)
[06:00:28] <The_Vulture> Yeah, I know you work on Tivoli - was just trying to think of the higher level category within IBM
[06:00:45] <dibblego> SWG is Tivoli, WebSphere, DB2, Lotus and Rational
[06:01:05] <dibblego> and nothing is hierarchical :)
[06:01:16] <The_Vulture> Yeah, certainly wouldn't hurt either way. Even just getting an assignment with IBM in Melbourne or something would be nice.
[06:01:20] <The_Vulture> Well no :)
[06:01:26] <dibblego> it is hierarchical depending on a given context
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[06:01:53] <dibblego> I give up trying to understand wtf it all is
[06:02:04] <The_Vulture> Probably best that way.
[06:02:14] <dibblego> suffice to say the GM of Tivoli sent me an email to congratulate me for some stuff, and I didn't know who it was
[06:02:36] <dibblego> apparantly that's bad if you don't know his name
[06:02:46] <dibblego> a CLM
[06:02:48] <The_Vulture> Oh - if you went up to reception at St. Leonards and had a look around you would have seen an equally tall building to your left - that's where my dad lives :)
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[06:03:11] <The_Vulture> hehe - well as long as you didn't email him back asking who he was
[06:03:14] <dibblego> I had a look out towards a train station and the harbour
[06:03:25] <The_Vulture> *nods* nice view
[06:03:35] <dibblego> I have sent an email to the GM of Australia with "Unsubscribe" in the subject - he kept spamming me with useless shit
[06:03:45] <dibblego> that was a CLM
[06:03:57] <The_Vulture> I was up there a couple of weeks ago for my first interview. Dropped by my dad's place to say hi, then went downstairs, walked next door and back up again to go to the interview
[06:04:39] <The_Vulture> CLM?
[06:04:40] <dibblego> I'm redoing my CV at the moment ironically :)
[06:04:46] <dibblego> Career Limiting Move
[06:05:08] <dibblego> ~CLM is Career Limiting Move
[06:05:08] <javabot> Okay, dibblego.
[06:05:22] <The_Vulture> Right
[06:05:41] <The_Vulture> dibblego: Thinking of applying somewhere else? I thought you were more interested in starting something yourself perhaps..
[06:05:46] <The_Vulture> How long have you been at IBM anyway?
[06:05:57] <dibblego> I may have exhausted my CLM limit soon
[06:05:59] <dibblego> nearly 4 years
[06:06:32] <dibblego> I have questioned authority and exceeded the acceptable threshold of intellect; that which must not exceed that of the managers; I simply refuse to be a drone
[06:06:36] <The_Vulture> might have limited your career in IBM absolutely? stuck in the same spot or going backwards..
[06:06:59] <The_Vulture> Yeah, I could understand that.
[06:07:09] <dibblego> I have highlighted the flaws in a process that a lot of people are married to
[06:07:35] <The_Vulture> Ah, a dangerous line to tread
[06:07:37] <dibblego> no amount of conversing changes anything
[06:07:46] <dibblego> a dangerous line agreed
[06:07:52] <dibblego> I dungivvafug too much
[06:08:18] <The_Vulture> *nods*
[06:08:21] <dibblego> they know I'm right; they just don't know what I'm talking about; that's my bet - I should have been fired by now easily
[06:08:28] <dibblego> I refuse to educate them
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[06:08:47] <dibblego> I just paraphrase all the time
[06:09:00] <dibblego> they say I have no people skills, yet they can be my robots whenever I want :)
[06:09:08] <dibblego> not that I enjoy it
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[06:10:34] <dibblego> when I'm fired, I'll reveal *everything* for the enjoyment and learning for others
[06:10:56] <dibblego> being a realist has positives as well
[06:10:59] <The_Vulture> hehe - watch out at least a little. They can still sue you for that kind of thing..
[06:11:08] <dibblego> of course :)
[06:11:12] <The_Vulture> Was interesting reading the rough print (hardly very fine/detailed) on the offer
[06:11:33] <dibblego> you'll find it coincides with US legislation (Copyright Act)
[06:11:41] <dibblego> I find that quite amusing
[06:11:56] <dibblego> ask any manager what it all means, and they shrug you off
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[06:12:19] <The_Vulture> I don't think I've seen the actual fine print yet. I assume that all gets signed and done after I accept the offer.
[06:12:32] <dibblego> ah of course
[06:12:39] <The_Vulture> As if they would know - all legalese. I ask my dad instead, but even he's unlikely to read it all or care :)
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[06:13:05] <dibblego> some of it seems unenforcable to me
[06:13:14] <dibblego> our Copyright Act is very different to the US
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[06:13:41] <dibblego> the only place where it makes sense is a few words "or where it applies in your jurisdiction"
[06:14:10] <dibblego> "we own everything you think, you smell, you breath"
[06:14:23] <The_Vulture> yes - always a handy clause to have when making blanket contracts/agreements in different places
[06:15:38] <dibblego> handy having a missus who knows how to write code
[06:16:05] <dibblego> I showed her the printf function; now she writes everything, absolutely everything
[06:16:24] <dibblego> I don't even use a computer outside of work
[06:16:24] <The_Vulture> nice
[06:16:27] <dibblego> oh wait
[06:16:30] <The_Vulture> ;)
[06:16:33] <dibblego> I'm at home
[06:16:36] <The_Vulture> correct
[06:16:43] <dibblego> well Im busted
[06:16:54] <dibblego> sue me!
[06:17:13] <The_Vulture> one moment.. ;)
[06:17:43] <The_Vulture> And how is the missus & the little ones?
[06:18:05] <dibblego> pretty good; we just moved house, my 2 year old just told me he is going to eat his veges so he can have hair on his chest like me
[06:18:22] <dibblego> someone has been telling him stories
[06:18:31] <dibblego> goodness grapes
[06:18:34] <dibblego> as he would say
[06:18:58] <jwormy> kids are awesome
[06:19:11] <jwormy> although i don't have any my nieces and nephews are a hoot
[06:19:18] <The_Vulture> riiight. My folks (well my mum more than my dad) always told me to eat my greens or I wouldn't grow. I'm 6'3".. so any arguments about dietary issues really don't go a long way with me. When I move out I'll try to adopt some vaguely sane eating habits though
[06:19:20] <dibblego> staying at home this weekend due to Indy 300
[06:19:25] <jwormy> and they are kinda like blockbuster for kids... when i get tired of it i just return it
[06:19:49] <dibblego> The_Vulture: it does catch up with you once everything starts to slow down; we aren't an obese country for nothing
[06:19:55] <The_Vulture> In related news: I have over 70 L worth of empty Sprite bottles sitting next to my computer at uni. Seems I won't quite make it to 100 L by the time I finish - but I figure I'll top it up to 100 in the celebrations afterwards
[06:20:07] <dibblego> goodness grapes
[06:20:10] <The_Vulture> dibblego: yeah - I'm just lanky & lucky at the moment. It'll fail soon enough
[06:21:51] <jwormy> horray for lanky... me too
[06:22:05] <jwormy> lanky is the new sexy baby
[06:22:10] <jwormy> ... or something.
[06:22:33] <dibblego> I had to go to the doctor yesterday; I am having my toenail removed - too much squash pushed it in
[06:22:44] <The_Vulture> jwormy: or something.
[06:22:58] <The_Vulture> dibblego: That's kind of.. not good.
[06:23:00] <jwormy> TMI! TMI!
[06:23:08] <dibblego> yeah I know; very painful
[06:23:20] <dibblego> least my squash game will improve :)
[06:23:28] <jwormy> hahahah
[06:23:49] <dibblego> I was overrunning the ball on Thursday night because of the pain, and I lost (2-3), so that's when I decided I should see the doc
[06:24:10] <dibblego> and I got thwacked on the arm by a racket
[06:24:15] <dibblego> it's still black
[06:24:24] <dibblego> I'm having 9 days off
[06:27:59] <The_Vulture> right, sounds like a good plan
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[06:36:38] <Garibaldi> The_Vulture: long time
[06:36:52] <jwormy> ohh hhhhh geeze
[06:37:01] <jwormy> Garibaldi, its been like.. 9-10 months man..
[06:37:09] <Garibaldi> jwormy: howdy
[06:37:55] <Garibaldi> what are you in to these days?
[06:38:20] <jwormy> Garibaldi, finishing school.. contract work.. contract work... more contract work..
[06:38:26] <jwormy> Garibaldi, what about yourself?
[06:38:28] <Garibaldi> yay for finishing school
[06:38:40] <Garibaldi> PhD year 2 of 5
[06:38:51] <jwormy> Garibaldi, lol.. get em'!
[06:38:56] <jwormy> Garibaldi, what are you studying?
[06:39:24] <Garibaldi> dependable systems
[06:39:31] <Garibaldi> specifically, wireless sensor networks
[06:39:50] <The_Vulture> Garibaldi: Yeah - certainly has been a while
[06:40:27] <The_Vulture> Wireless sensor networks, now that rings some bells.
[06:40:30] <Garibaldi> The_Vulture: you're finishing school, eh?
[06:40:59] <The_Vulture> yeah, my honours thesis is due in two weeks. I've really not done much writing and I just need to apply myself to that task (another assignment due this Thursday though)
[06:41:35] <jwormy> oh tears i have a 15 page paper due on my dvd player due at the end of the month... grrr
[06:42:09] <Garibaldi> The_Vulture: what's your topic?
[06:42:30] <Garibaldi> jwormy: fun :-)
[06:42:37] <The_Vulture> Garibaldi: instruction selection. (well to be precise - an instruction selection generator for SSA graphs)
[06:42:42] <jwormy> Garibaldi, yes... i'm very excited about it.
[06:42:54] <The_Vulture> that is, a program that generates instruction selectors for SSA graphs
[06:43:09] <The_Vulture> been done once before, I've just done a little more analysis of data sets, and implement some simple extensions
[06:43:57] <Garibaldi> The_Vulture: heh, fun :-)
[06:44:04] <jwormy> Garibaldi, my focus has pretty much been on work as i have more of it than i know what to do with and the opportunities seem to keep coming.. i need a few more hours in the day :\
[06:45:00] <The_Vulture> Garibaldi: yeah, interesting though I'm still unconvinced of the practical applications (such a method is quite a bit more expensive than tree or even DAG matchers) - it'd be nice to do a proper comparison. At least it's lead me to learn about LLVM (Low Level Virtual Machine) - a seriously cool research platform I'll certainly play with furthur.
[06:46:05] <Garibaldi> cool
[06:46:39] <Garibaldi> right now I'm working on a sensor network testbed
[06:46:51] <Garibaldi> to allow users to remotely interact with the sensor devices
[06:47:06] <Garibaldi> it's fun
[06:47:10] <Garibaldi> Java
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[06:47:48] <Garibaldi> wrapping up my classwork
[06:47:53] <Garibaldi> so that I can start focusing on research
[06:47:55] <The_Vulture> Neat. Sensor networks reminds me of the stuff I was doing last summer - it seems there's actually some public info about it now.
[06:48:00] <The_Vulture> Squawk  - http://research.sun.com/sunlabsday/demos.php?id=11
[06:48:26] <The_Vulture> A JVM in Java effectively - among other things they were targetting sensor networks for the system. Not sure how far they've gotten with the project now.
[06:49:15] <The_Vulture> Basically I think LLVM is a better implementation of the general idea - though I'm not sure if LLVM can compile itself yet. I assume it can.
[06:49:59] <Garibaldi> cool, we've been working with nesC and TinyOS on relatively low-power hardware
[06:50:49] <The_Vulture> I've heard mention of TinyOS from time to time. Sounds like fun work in any case
[06:51:36] <Garibaldi> yeah, new stuff -- shouldn't be too hard to get a dissertation out of something intersting
[06:51:45] <Garibaldi> s/intersting/interesting/
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[06:52:06] <jwormy> sleep time for me folks, goodnight
[06:52:17] <Garibaldi> jwormy: goodnight
[06:52:56] <The_Vulture> 'later.
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[07:05:42] <rogue-kun{B}|Awa> pr3d4t0r: you about?
[07:05:49] *** rogue-kun{B}|Awa is now known as rogue-kun{B}
[07:06:13] <The_Vulture> rogue-kun{B}: he left the office for the day a few hours ago
[07:06:28] <rogue-kun{B}> drat
[07:06:50] <rogue-kun{B}> I just remberd i for to askim the name of the PDA he worked on.
[07:07:25] <rogue-kun{B}> I only rembered it by the fact that tha hard ware was desined to talk byte code [by passing the need for a JVM]
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[07:07:56] <The_Vulture> can't say I know what the platform would have been
[07:08:12] <encoded> hi
[07:08:24] <encoded> cout<<"hello world";
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[07:10:02] <The_Vulture> Hi.
[07:10:34] <rogue-kun{B}> System.out.println("hellow encoded, care to switch languages?");
[07:10:43] <rogue-kun{B}> 8)
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[07:13:21] <encoded> that was i wanted, i really dont know any java.. wanted to know the equivelent expresion
[07:14:11] <rogue-kun{B}> encoded there you go 8)
[07:14:21] <rogue-kun{B}> println and print
[07:14:41] <encoded> char array[40]
[07:14:47] <rogue-kun{B}> the former end with a return carrGE 8)
[07:15:23] <rogue-kun{B}> encoded: char[] arrayname = new char[40];
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[07:16:55] <rogue-kun{B}> that what you wanted?
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[07:29:55] <encoded> cin.get(array,40);
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[07:42:52] <pr3d4t0r> Greetings.
[07:43:03] * pr3d4t0r smells the air.
[07:43:11] <pr3d4t0r> It smells... like... The_Vulture!!!
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[07:44:20] <The_Vulture> :)
[07:44:33] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: rogue-kun{B} was looking for you, apparently
[07:44:51] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: Ping...
[07:46:33] <rogue-kun{B}> hey pr3d4t0r
[07:47:19] <rogue-kun{B}> you mention you worked on the java based pda,  but for the life of me can't rember which PDA was called
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[07:52:17] <Kira> Hello.
[07:52:36] <rogue-kun{B}> Kon'ban wa Kira-san 8)
[07:52:36] <Kira> Does anybody know a cheap JSP/Servlet host?
[07:52:51] <Kira> Konban wa rogue-kun.
[07:52:55] <rogue-kun{B}> Kira: Appache/tomcat
[07:53:20] <Kira> rogue-kun{B}: no no, I don't mean a server software. I mean a web site host.
[07:54:18] <Kira> I'm a student developer and I'm looking for a web host to host our final year project (which is going to be a JSP/servlet web app project).
[07:54:21] <rogue-kun{B}> ahh some to host your code.... good luck 8) moste webhosts don't like hosting forein code, so if they offer the serives it not normally cheep
[07:54:35] <Kira> exactly the problem.
[07:55:02] <Kira> I've found some JSP/servlet hosts but they are all not so cheap.
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[07:55:29] <rogue-kun{B}> Kira: hese why not simply get an only pc, install linux with apache/tomcate and use it as the class's server 8)
[07:55:33] <Kira> 15+ USD per month, which seems more expensive than normal php or asp hosts for some reason.
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[07:57:28] <Kira> I'm trying to host the project on my home desktop right now. The problem is that the usage agreement of my ISP does not permit running servers, given I'm on a residential plan (business plan would be crazy).
[07:57:55] <Kira> I'm really curious if only ISPs in Quebec are such asses.
[07:58:26] <rogue-kun{B}> Kira: have you considdered talking to IT about connected the formentioned server for the class?
[07:58:58] <Kira> rogue-kun{B}: we have, and they couldn't care less.
[07:59:14] <rogue-kun{B}> Kira: nope mut ISP user agreement forbiti running server on consumer accacuts, they why the provide corate accounts
[08:00:00] <rogue-kun{B}> Kira: hense why I sugges donating the mashe so all IT need to proved is Floor spaces, and connection point 8)
[08:00:57] <Kira> heh, our professor told us we may have difficulty to just get a project room per team.
[08:00:57] <rogue-kun{B}> also getting your department's head to make the request will give it more weight 8)
[08:01:08] <Kira> true that.
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[08:01:49] <Kira> The weirdest thing is we are not given any project budget in software engineering, unlike in the other engineering disciplines.
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[08:02:21] <Kira> If we had a budget, I would just get the 15-dollar hosts.
[08:02:21] <Java_the_Hutt> Hello, i have installed eclipse through ubuntu packages, as root. Now when i try to create a plugin project as normal user, i got several errors like "plugins is not a valid directory". On the otherhand when i start as a root i got no errors. But i don't want to start eclipse as a root neither i wan't to risk my system security by making unecesarry directories writable. What should i do ?
[08:02:59] <rogue-kun{B}> Kira: normaly becuse IT is ment to proved the nessary platforms 8)
[08:05:18] <rogue-kun{B}> Java_the_Hutt: I have never used elipse, but did you install it in single user, or multi user mode?
[08:05:44] <rogue-kun{B}> but thus question would probile got better on #eclipse
[08:05:48] <Java_the_Hutt> is there such an option
[08:06:02] <The_Vulture> Java_the_Hutt: make only the necessary directories writeable..
[08:06:03] <The_Vulture> *shrugs*
[08:06:10] <Java_the_Hutt> i also asked there. They offered me to make the directory globally writable
[08:06:45] <rogue-kun{B}> Java_the_Hutt: why don't you belive them? 8) aster all it is a channel decated to the program 8)
[08:07:26] <jcscoobyrs> He's an idiot.
[08:07:40] <jcscoobyrs> If he's worries about the perms on his Eclipse installation then he's retarded.
[08:07:42] <jcscoobyrs> I told him so.
[08:07:47] <Java_the_Hutt> so what
[08:07:55] <jcscoobyrs> It's a fricking IDE...not a database with credit card numbers.
[08:08:00] <Java_the_Hutt> i am taking opinions is that wrong ?
[08:08:20] <jcscoobyrs> The important Eclipse stuff is your workspace that you can create in your user home, for security reasons.   <cough />
[08:08:41] <jcscoobyrs> Oh wait...I'm wrong.
[08:08:56] <jcscoobyrs> I forgot about that Russian kid that broke into my Mac last week to fuck up my Eclipse installation.
[08:09:02] <jcscoobyrs> Disregard what I said.
[08:09:08] * jcscoobyrs laughs uncontrollably...
[08:09:16] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: I worked with Insignia Solutions on JVMs for iPaq, Nino, Cassiopea, etc.
[08:09:39] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: I also ran some cool software on the KVM Java for Palm Vx.
[08:10:04] <jcscoobyrs> Java_the_Hutt: Not trying to be mean man but that is the least of your worries.
[08:10:07] <rogue-kun{B}> pr3d4t0r: which PDA you you recomed for running java apps then 8)
[08:10:55] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: Palm anything with IBM's Websphere.
[08:11:17] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: MIDP 2.0/CLDC 1.1 + JSRs that are useful.
[08:12:03] <rogue-kun{B}> thank you 8)
[08:13:28] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: You're welcome.
[08:13:44] * rogue-kun{B} now bites the bult and looks ad GridBagLayout, as it is proble better that useing BoxLayout wuth mulipanes [memory wise]
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[08:13:57] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: I like that "JSRs that are useful" - there are so many of them, that's a good enough description
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[08:15:02] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: so any tips for MS interviews? In case you didn't read back - this interview is in Sydney, but it is the "final" (they just wouldn't bother sending us all over to Redmond, instead they send some Rendmondites to Sydney to interview all Australian/New Zealand applicants I think)
[08:15:45] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Sleep well the night before.
[08:15:51] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Take a light breakfast.
[08:16:08] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: The more interviews you get that day, the more likely that you'll get an offer.
[08:16:16] <The_Vulture> doesn't start until 2pm in fact, so I'll have had a good lunch
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[08:16:45] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: I'd say that if you score four or more you're in good shape; I don't know how many guys they're sending.
[08:16:53] <The_Vulture> That's the impression I got from one of the guys who got to the interview (but didn't get a job) last year. He had three interviews I think, and thought another two would be possible for those who were doing well
[08:17:07] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: I interviewed with nine or ten when I was there.  Most people are shown the door and "thanks" after three or four ;)
[08:17:14] <The_Vulture> The email said 5 interviews, each 45-60 minutes. I guess that's sort of the upper bound
[08:17:20] <The_Vulture> nice
[08:17:28] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: More than three -- you're doing fine.
[08:17:57] <The_Vulture> I'm guessing that's just the general upper bound, and they might show anyone the door before then, as you said.
[08:18:15] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: They will tell you right off the bat "don't worry about the crazy MS questions you always hear about; those are a myth".
[08:18:41] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Then one of the guys you'll interview with will give you one of those crazy questions.
[08:18:44] <The_Vulture> Well in my telephone interview I got at least one that I later found on the web. Though looking at some of the others on the web I'd be happy if I didn't get most of them.
[08:19:00] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: That's not the point.
[08:19:09] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: They aren't judging you by what you answer.
[08:19:16] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: They'll judge you by what you ask.
[08:19:33] <The_Vulture> how you approach the problem, etc.. I guess.
[08:19:56] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: The question may seem straight forward at first.  Don't leave anything to chance.  Ask as many clarification questions as you can.
[08:20:15] <The_Vulture> A friend of mine got one in his telephone interview that I'd seen online and quite liked. Test if a linked list is self referential (has a cycle somewher in it) - the ideal answer involves two pointers with one going twice as fast as the other, if they are ever equal then there's a loop.
[08:20:33] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: When it comes to coding, I bet that most of the grilling will come in C if you're being considered for an OS / languages group.
[08:20:35] <The_Vulture> Yeah, I've got that impression - they even mentioned it in the interview emails.
[08:21:11] <The_Vulture> I'd like to get in on Windows Media Center. The email said they are mostly looking for people for Windows Server.
[08:21:15] <The_Vulture> I don't mind too much.
[08:21:22] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: If you can think of a clever way to solve something, non-traditionally, you'll get more points.
[08:21:40] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: He, he, he...
[08:22:03] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: If you wind up working with the Windows Media guys I'll definitely run into you.  I go to Redmond once in a while to chat with them.
[08:22:21] <The_Vulture> Neat-o - what's your connection to them?
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[08:22:58] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Anyway:  the interview that got me the job, I believe, was a question where I proved the MS guru wrong in some solution he gave me.
[08:23:32] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: For a large array, do a binary search but you're confined to 2^16 slots in the array.
[08:23:34] <The_Vulture> neat-o. As you might have picked up - I'm more than happy to be pedantic rather than assume the authority is correct :)
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[08:24:05] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: You can only use unsigned 16-bit integers for the head/tail/mid pointers.
[08:24:13] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: How would you implement?
[08:24:20] <The_Vulture> And the array can be significantly larger than that?
[08:24:30] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: The array can only have 65535 slots.
[08:25:35] <bpalmer> you're only allowed to use 3 of them?
[08:25:42] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: In the real world, mid = (head+tail)/2.
[08:25:50] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: Yup.
[08:25:58] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: It's an OS restriction.
[08:26:07] <The_Vulture> An unsigned 16 bit can store any valid index in a 65535 element array.. so I'm not sure what I'm missing.
[08:26:15] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: So, how'd you solve it?  You can't do h+t without an overflow.
[08:26:22] <bpalmer> h/2 + t/2 ?
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[08:26:32] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: That's what the MS guy said.
[08:26:48] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: Guess what I said.
[08:26:57] <bpalmer> not that, presumably
[08:27:05] <The_Vulture> oh, ok. problem with that is when they aren't multiples
[08:27:08] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: No, I don't write fugly inefficient code.
[08:27:18] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: The problem is the overflow.
[08:27:26] <The_Vulture> no, I mean the suggestion bpalmer made
[08:27:30] <The_Vulture> 3/2 + 3/2 == 2, whereas 6/2 == 3
[08:27:31] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: You can't do (h+t)/2 without an overflow.
[08:27:35] <The_Vulture> I got that bit.
[08:27:42] <bpalmer> that's a simple conditional to add 1, The_Vulture
[08:27:47] <The_Vulture> bpalmer: Right,
[08:28:06] <bpalmer> h/2+t/2+(h % 2 == 1 ? 1 : t % 2 == 1 ? 1 : 0), or something
[08:28:07] <The_Vulture> just something to watch for - was trying to figure out what pr3d4t0r might have found wrong with the solution the MS dude gave
[08:28:11] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: That's not a problem (bpalmer's answer) becuase in iteration+1, h = mid-1 or t = mid+1.
[08:28:18] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: No conditionals.  That's even fuglier.
[08:28:26] <The_Vulture> a ternary's as good as.
[08:28:30] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Nothing, it's just inneficient.
[08:28:41] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: You don't need ternaries if you know the binary search algorithm.
[08:29:01] <The_Vulture> ok, the issue I'm having here is with the discussion, not the technical problem. What are we actually discussing?
[08:29:15] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: My solution was m = (h >> 1 | t >> 1);
[08:29:36] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Just a problem that MS might throw your way.
[08:29:44] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: They love it if you outsmart them.
[08:30:19] <The_Vulture> Yes, I got that. And you said the naive solution overflows - I got that. And that bpalmer's solution was the same as what Microsoft gave, but that you corrected them. Was the correction just to point out that it was inefficient, and that yours was not so inefficient?
[08:30:23] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Someone didn't tell my interviewer that I spent years writing x86 assembler :)
[08:30:37] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Mine's more efficient.
[08:30:49] <The_Vulture> Yes, I got that too - but was that the correction you were refering to?
[08:31:04] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Look at the number of cycles that it'd take to do a division by 2 (or by anything) in x86 vs. doing a bit shift right.
[08:31:12] <bpalmer> pr3d4t0r: are you guaranteed that h and t's high order bit are not both set?
[08:31:12] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Just an example.
[08:31:24] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: It doesn't matter if they're set.  They're unsigned.
[08:31:27] <The_Vulture> bpalmer: unsigned shift
[08:31:57] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: bpalmer's questions are the kinds of questions you may want to ask, etc.  Give scope to the problem.
[08:31:59] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: well any sane compiler can replace a /2 with a >>1, I personally wouldn't much care about that sort of thing. Though I'll keep it in mind
[08:32:17] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: They'll make it nice and vague for you, expecting you to fine tune the questions.
[08:32:23] <The_Vulture> *nods*
[08:32:28] <bpalmer> In fact, I'd expect any sane compiler to do so. That's about the first optimization I think a compiler class would go into
[08:32:36] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: They'll give you a restriction like "the compiler won't do those optimizations".
[08:32:54] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: So the correction you made was an efficiency issue - you didn't show that their solution agve the wrong answer?
[08:33:05] <bpalmer> Silly arbitrary restrictions are the name of interview questions :-(
[08:33:11] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Every time that you say something like "I'll let the OS deal with that" or "I'll let the compiler do that for me" they'll turn around and tell you "assume it doesn't do that.  What would you do?"
[08:33:17] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: Yup.
[08:33:36] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: It's a great mental exercisse.
[08:33:38] <The_Vulture> yeah, I don't mind a few arbitrary limitations - I often play with writing unnecessarily short code for no good reason
[08:33:39] <pr3d4t0r> Er, exercise.
[08:34:14] <The_Vulture> Usually involves more playing with libraries, or writing some very generic tools that simplify a few things, rather than playing with the language so much, but anything's fair game.
[08:34:14] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: They'll come up with more arbitrary limitations every time you make an assumption or let something for the compiler to deal with.
[08:34:44] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: You won't get asked much about libraries.  Any dumbass (as countless hordes of Java "programmers" proved) can do that.
[08:34:53] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: You'll be asked to solve the problem yourself.
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[08:35:16] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Dude, you're in for the most fun interview hours you've ever had.
[08:35:19] <The_Vulture> I know. Pity - I like playing with obscure parts of the libs. Obscure language features will do me fine I suppose
[08:35:32] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Obscure language features are your friends.
[08:36:02] <The_Vulture> Pity I still haven't bothered to get a paper based copy of the spec - take that along for some light reading ;)
[08:36:06] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Anyway... lemme think, what else is there...?
[08:36:13] <bpalmer> Heh. Reminds me of an exam I took where the tester made sure to disallow malloc/calloc/other standard forms of memory allocation on C, but forgot that the C standard lets you use strdup to allocate new memory :-)
[08:36:32] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: bpalmer++
[08:36:37] <javabot> bpalmer has a karma level of 17, pr3d4t0r
[08:36:52] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: I interview my Java programmers under similar circumstances.
[08:36:59] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: Only one has passed.
[08:37:45] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: If they're going to my team, the grilling is really good.
[08:38:06] <bpalmer> I've been playing around a fair amount lately with space-bounded turing machines, and I suspect the mental machinations that require will do me good next time I go do interviews
[08:38:36] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: My guys are the Steely Eyed Software Guys.  We're the elite of the elite and we like to keep it that way.  It's hard enough to get into our company to begin with.  Getting into my team is even harder.
[08:38:45] <bpalmer> since last two times I've done interviews, they asked me annoying space-bounded questions
[08:38:52] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: He, he, he... good.
[08:39:12] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: You should be glad.  That means that the employer is ready to hire real programmers, not Java code monkeys.
[08:39:14] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: Give me a few years (ideally at MS) and I might apply :)
[08:39:31] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: The grillings I got at MS and Walmart.com were very similar.
[08:39:36] <bpalmer> pr3d4t0r: well, they didn't end up offering me a job, so I can't be that glad :-)
[08:39:47] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: I went through around 9 - 10 interviews in both places.
[08:39:56] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: :(
[08:40:09] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: I guess WalMart did a similar thing to MS - multiple interviews back to back?
[08:40:30] <bpalmer> (although to be fair, I got contacted by HR before the interview even took place saying that they had already filled the position)
[08:40:31] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Yeah.  The difference was that MS packed them all in one day.  WMC did them in two days.
[08:40:39] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: :(
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[08:41:02] <bpalmer> did WMC spring for a hotel ?
[08:41:05] <The_Vulture> I didn't get much of a grilling at IBM (it was only for a graduate position after all) - which is one reason I'd rather not work there. I'm hoping the MS interview will be hard, but that I'll get an offer. I'll feel better about working at a place I feel I was challenged to get in to.
[08:41:05] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: If you get an offer, don't say "yes" right away.  MS will make you a hell of a nice offer, but you can arm wrestle for more.
[08:41:25] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: I took the job at WMC instead of Microsoft because they're only 4 minutes south of San Francisco.
[08:41:39] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: You can't pay me enough money to move to Seattle/Redmond/Bellevue.
[08:41:48] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: For effectively graduate positions I doubt there's much negotiation.. not sure I've really had enough experience in the business to try to negotiate either.
[08:42:02] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: The cash and benefits are about the same (with an edge on some perks by MS).
[08:42:06] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: Don't much like the area?
[08:42:10] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: No.
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[08:42:16] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: I'm an urban kid.
[08:42:33] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: The only places where I can stand (indeed, love) living in the US are San Francisco and Manhattan.
[08:42:40] <The_Vulture> Certainly does feel a bit small-town for me, coming from Sydney. But I really don't much mind the size of the social/economic real world I'm surrounded by.
[08:43:03] <The_Vulture> Well I think it would feel that way, much smaller city than where I've grown up.
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[08:43:13] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: So I came back to MS with a really high counter-offer.  We went through two more offers (total == 3) before I said "thanks, no".  WMC matched the numbers nicely.
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[08:43:27] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: neat
[08:43:31] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Seattle is beautiful.
[08:43:35] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Just not my thing.
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[08:43:43] <The_Vulture> too quiet or what?
[08:43:46] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: I need vibrancy, and Seattle lacks it.
[08:43:49] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Yeah.
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[08:43:57] <The_Vulture> yeah, I figured you for that :)
[08:44:07] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Downtown looked dead to me on a weekday at noon.  bitpoet said it was rush hour ;)
[08:44:15] <The_Vulture> hehe
[08:44:23] <The_Vulture> Where's he work?
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[08:44:47] <bpalmer> are you from mexico city, pr3d4t0r ?
[08:44:47] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: If MS had offered me the job here in Silicon Valley, I'd say yes without much negotiation.  In the end they just couldn't pay me enough to move to Seattle.
[08:44:57] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: No, from a small town in central Mexico called Celaya.
[08:45:12] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: Small as in it's bigger than San Francisco, though.
[08:45:31] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: Yeah - actually their site mentions they do Microsoft TV development in the Valley. I hadn't seen/heard anything about MSTV until I checked out the website - looks as interesting as Media Center, or more so.
[08:45:58] <bpalmer> oh, yeah, the old webtv complex, no?
[08:46:20] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: There's not much software development in the Valley.
[08:46:33] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: That's more of a support and marketing office.  No research, no hardcore development.
[08:46:40] <The_Vulture> Related tech, their site mentions that they do MSN, MSTV, and one or two other things on their Silicon Valley campus
[08:46:48] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: And they wanted me to go hardcore ;)
[08:46:58] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: Hmm, perhaps.
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[08:47:57] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: That's not hardcore development ;)
[08:48:13] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: That's media stuff.  The hardcore media group is in Redmond, building 50.
[08:48:32] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: I can even tell you the guys who head that group.
[08:48:48] <Cow_woC> Anyone ever gotten Query to work with setSerializable()? When does one use it? I always seem to get empty results with it....?
[08:48:49] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: I'll wait until you get the job; then you can cross-reference me :)
[08:48:55] <The_Vulture> Yep :)
[08:49:10] <The_Vulture> That's the way, positive thinking. Because of course I'll get the job - just a matter of time ;)
[08:49:51] <The_Vulture> lovely little religious debate going on in ##C++ - I love a good lough :)
[08:49:56] <The_Vulture> s/lough/laugh/
[08:50:00] <bpalmer> tabs vs spaces?
[08:50:04] <The_Vulture> (that typo is legitimate, I'm using Dvorak)
[08:50:09] <The_Vulture> bpalmer: No, actual religion.
[08:50:17] <The_Vulture> just for a nice change
[08:52:00] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: Spaces.
[08:52:04] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: Tabs are for retards.
[08:52:53] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: which is kinda funny since tabs give more flexibility such that different people can use different tab sizes
[08:53:14] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: but because email clients and text editors default to an ugly tab size of 8 which you cannot change, people have migrated to spaces
[08:53:22] <The_Vulture> Hehe. Every now and then I think about using tabs.. be nice if on a group project you could force tab usage - then everyone could have different indents, though reality just doesn't quite work that way :)
[08:53:26] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: http://www.qdb.us/49937 before I forget.
[08:53:27] <Cow_woC> I find it funny that today, in 2005 we still use spaces
[08:53:36] <pr3d4t0r> bpalmer: See?
[08:53:37] <Cow_woC> heh
[08:53:55] <bpalmer> The_Vulture: you can. Mandate they run "indent" on checkin
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[08:54:04] <bpalmer> then configure "indent" appropriately
[08:54:18] <Garibaldi> "still use spaces" as if in the past we didn't.  In the past we used tabs because a tab was a single character (1 bytes) and not multiple
[08:54:52] <Cow_woC> I think tabs makes more logical sense, though when I scroll through the document I like the cursor moving one character at a time, not a "block"
[08:55:10] <Cow_woC> people using different spacing standards make using spaces annoying
[08:55:17] <The_Vulture> bpalmer: *nods* - actually dibblego and I were discussing the issue of formatting ages ago. It'd be kind of cute to have a neat way of integrating reformatting with your version control tools
[08:55:24] <high-bass> hey i got a problem... im using cmd line to compile.. and i installed the jsee 1.4 etc sdk pack... and when i type javac programname.java i get a error sayin "javac is not a recognized as an internal or external comamnd, operable program or batch file."
[08:55:26] <high-bass> why is that?
[08:55:31] <Cow_woC> and I still, to this day, don't know why people standardized on opening a brace (for a new block) on the same line, instead of opening it on a new line
[08:55:38] <The_Vulture> So checkins were auto-formatted to the commit format, then everyone's checked out copies were formatted however they liked.
[08:55:46] <Cow_woC> high-bass: javac is not in your path
[08:55:54] <high-bass> oro?
[08:55:56] <The_Vulture> so diffs worked, but were shown in the way that matched a user's formatting preferences, etc..
[08:55:57] <high-bass> how do i put it in my path?
[08:56:07] <The_Vulture> high-bass: read the basic installation instructions..
[08:56:09] <Cow_woC> high-bass: google "Windows PATH environment"
[08:56:12] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Have you ever programmed in K&R C?
[08:56:20] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: C? sure
[08:56:27] <Garibaldi> not C, K&R C
[08:56:30] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: No, K&R C.
[08:56:32] <Cow_woC> what is the difference
[08:56:32] <Cow_woC> ?
[08:56:46] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: The difference is that brace you're talking about, among other things ;)
[08:57:01] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: what do they do in K&R?
[08:57:03] <Cow_woC> for braces..
[08:57:18] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: int function(a, b) int a, int b { /* function body here */ }
[08:57:23] <Cow_woC> personally I've always liked lining up the braces vertically... sticking the open brace on the same line as code looks butt ugly to me
[08:57:30] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: heh, ugly
[08:57:43] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: That's just habit - it's not actually an objective asthetic criteria.
[08:57:46] <pr3d4t0r> Garibaldi: Was it a colon or a semicolon for the argument list?  I forget.  Haven't touched K&R C since 1986.
[08:57:58] <Cow_woC> The_Vulture: for me, lining it up vertically makes it easier to line up block begin/end
[08:57:58] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: Where did you first learn any language involving {} blocks (C, C++, Java, etc)?
[08:58:02] <The_Vulture> and how was it taught?
[08:58:05] <Cow_woC> The_Vulture: C
[08:58:06] <high-bass> so if i had "path C:\Sun\AppServer" i should be set to go?
[08:58:07] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: because it's what you're used to, nothing more.
[08:58:10] <Garibaldi> pr3d4t0r: what you have is correct
[08:58:15] <pr3d4t0r> Garibaldi: Thanks.
[08:58:19] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: and the first examples you saw? which bracing style did they use?
[08:58:30] <high-bass> er add to my autobat that is
[08:58:38] <Cow_woC> The_Vulture: I'm not sure... likely the one I like
[08:58:45] <The_Vulture> high-bass: that's a rather random guess..
[08:58:48] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: Right.
[08:59:02] <Cow_woC> but there is reason for it ... it's not just that I'm used to it
[08:59:09] <high-bass> lol thats what is says on microsoft website
[08:59:12] <Cow_woC> it's that visually it is quicker to find the begin and end
[08:59:21] <The_Vulture> I know I first learnt Java from Sun's tutorials - that's where I picked up the convention that I use. But I don't much mind - if someone one day said "this project requires this style" - I'd adapt soon enough.
[08:59:34] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: You can find it quickly because you've done so many times before..
[08:59:44] * Cow_woC hates imposed standards... I'd much rather let everyone in my team code using different styles
[08:59:52] <The_Vulture> high-bass: where exactly? eh. Just read this: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/getStarted/cupojava/win32.html
[08:59:57] <Garibaldi> Cow_woC: that's silly
[09:00:05] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: Yeah, that'd be useful - source files in a jumbled up mix of 47 different conventions.
[09:00:11] <The_Vulture> 11 different naming schemes..
[09:00:17] <Cow_woC> Garibaldi: nope... you can adapt just fine... and as a programmer I hate being forced to use a style I dislike
[09:00:26] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: Adapt to what exactly?
[09:00:30] <Cow_woC> code format
[09:00:34] <The_Vulture> Adapt to reading code in mixed styles?
[09:00:41] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: Version control? diffs?
[09:00:47] <Cow_woC> no no no... simple rules
[09:00:52] <The_Vulture> ?
[09:01:00] <Garibaldi> you're more interesting int making everyone else adapt to you than for you to adapt to a uniform style.
[09:01:04] <Cow_woC> existing files must remain their style; new ones can have any style you wish
[09:01:06] <Garibaldi> s/int making/in making/
[09:01:13] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: Why would that be useful?
[09:01:26] <Cow_woC> because it's annoying being forced to use a style you dislike
[09:01:27] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: You sir, are a fool. End of discussion.
[09:01:30] <Cow_woC> heh
[09:01:36] <Garibaldi> lol
[09:02:00] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Last piece of advise:  if you don't know something, say so right away.
[09:02:08] <Cow_woC> heh
[09:02:13] <The_Vulture> This is why I should come back here more regularly - I'd then still have ops, and could thus apply unnecessary force in situations such as this.
[09:02:19] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: On the other hand, if you know your shit about something, get as close to cocky as you can.
[09:02:20] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: when have you known a computer guy to ever say he doesn't know something?
[09:02:26] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: *nods* I'm suprisingly honest sometimes
[09:02:35] <Garibaldi> pr3d4t0r: actually, I was wrong. Would have been:  int function(a, b) int a; int b; { /* function body here */ }
[09:02:43] <pr3d4t0r> Garibaldi: :)
[09:02:52] <The_Vulture> Did that in the IBM interview actually. Both the admission of an absence of knowledge, and talking myself up when I felt it was right.
[09:02:56] <pr3d4t0r> Garibaldi: Last compiler to support it was written in 1983, I think.
[09:03:04] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: There are a great many things that I don't know.
[09:03:08] <pr3d4t0r> Garibaldi: I think we can live without it :)  Thanks though.
[09:03:15] <Garibaldi> pr3d4t0r: gcc will do it :-)
[09:03:21] <Garibaldi> that's how I figured it out :-)
[09:03:28] <pr3d4t0r> Garibaldi: gcc does all kinds of shit it isn't supposed to ;)
[09:03:33] <Garibaldi> lol, true
[09:03:45] <pr3d4t0r> Garibaldi: I heard it even tries to do Java nowadays.
[09:03:54] <Garibaldi> that's what I hear
[09:03:59] <Garibaldi> I haven't touched that
[09:04:04] <pr3d4t0r> Garibaldi: Next it'll do SOAP stub generation from WSDL files...
[09:04:12] <pr3d4t0r> Garibaldi: Wise man.
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[09:05:54] <high-bass> god damn gotta update my classpath too
[09:05:54] <high-bass> lol
[09:06:39] <The_Vulture> high-bass: read the darn tutorial I referenced.. don't touch the CLASSPATH env variable
[09:06:43] <The_Vulture> leave it unset
[09:06:51] <high-bass> i ddi read the tutoral
[09:06:53] <high-bass> i got the javac to work
[09:06:58] <The_Vulture> right..
[09:07:04] <high-bass> and now i gotta fix the classpath
[09:07:08] <The_Vulture> why?
[09:07:19] <The_Vulture> It shouldn't be broken..
[09:07:19] <high-bass> because java name gives an error sayn
[09:07:39] <high-bass> "exception in thread "main" java.lan.noclassfedfounderErorr: name
[09:07:40] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: CLASSPATH is a beautiful thing.
[09:07:44] <The_Vulture> high-bass: Have you compiled and run the simple example as given in the tutorial?
[09:07:48] <high-bass> ya
[09:07:53] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: Best left unset imo.
[09:07:56] <high-bass> cant run it thou
[09:08:07] <The_Vulture> high-bass: Follow the instructions CAREFULLY. They'll tell you exactly what to do
[09:08:08] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: I like setting it in start up bash scripts.
[09:08:20] <high-bass> ya i know i figured it out i think lemem try
[09:08:23] <The_Vulture> high-bass: Note the pink boxes that tell you that the commands are case sensitive
[09:08:24] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Easier to keep separate than -cp
[09:08:24] <pulaski> Hello, I'm a beginning java programmer.  How can I evaluate a char type object as one or another character?
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[09:08:29] <high-bass> if i dont come back... call a geek team to my house
[09:08:34] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: obviously
[09:08:43] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: char x = 'a', y = 'b';
[09:08:46] <The_Vulture> pulaski: do what now?
[09:08:49] <pr3d4t0r> if (x == y)...
[09:08:57] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: if (x != y) ...
[09:09:02] <pulaski> thanks
[09:09:03] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: if (x > y)
[09:09:06] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: :)
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[09:09:30] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell pulaski about JLS
[09:09:32] <javabot> pulaski, JLS is The Java Language Specification: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/
[09:09:56] <pulaski> I've created a tempurature class and an instance of it is of course the actual temperature and whether is C or F.
[09:09:57] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: Also, remember that char in Java == 16-bit unsigned integer.
[09:10:36] <pulaski> In my driver program I read the Char value from the user
[09:10:48] * Cow_woC still wishes Sun would have found a more appropriate way to handle the new Unicode standard than to encode crap inside a String
[09:10:59] <high-bass> o guys
[09:11:04] * bpalmer wishes harder that they had made byte unsigned too
[09:11:08] <high-bass> the link is not working
[09:11:09] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: what?
[09:11:14] <high-bass> for the 'update variable path" instruction page :/
[09:11:29] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: what do you mean by "encode crap"?
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[09:11:43] <The_Vulture> high-bass: if you can run javac, your PATH is already updated..
[09:11:57] <Cow_woC> The_Vulture: now in String, two chars make up a single character
[09:12:04] <Cow_woC> a single unicode 3.0 character
[09:12:20] <Cow_woC> so you can't parse strings character by character anymore
[09:12:24] <Cow_woC> among other things
[09:12:48] <Cow_woC> it is *ugly*
[09:12:55] <high-bass> no i get this error "Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: HelloWorldApp " and the website says type set CLASSPATH=
[09:12:59] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: that's the nature of any unicode encoding (or have they limited the entire set to 32 bits)
[09:13:00] <high-bass> and them run and it works
[09:13:08] <high-bass> but i dont want to type set CLASSPATH= everytime
[09:13:17] <The_Vulture> high-bass: so make sure your CLASSPATH isn't set
[09:13:20] <Cow_woC> The_Vulture: with every release they add more bits :)
[09:13:26] <high-bass> o ok
[09:13:29] <The_Vulture> you probably set it to some non-empty value
[09:13:37] <Cow_woC> The_Vulture: but yeah, would be nice if Java would have upgraded to 24-bit chars
[09:13:41] <Cow_woC> the downside being memory usage
[09:13:48] <Cow_woC> but ease of use is now out the window
[09:13:52] <pulaski> pr3d4t0r, does the equality == operator compare to the object reference (the address) or the 'C' or 'f' itself?
[09:13:58] <Cow_woC> I somewhat prefer ease of use to memory savings
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[09:14:10] <Cow_woC> (at least, that's what Java is supposed to be about)
[09:14:11] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: Well not really - the actual unicode set is above any number of bits - it's only the unicode encodings that have a fixed bit represenation.
[09:14:20] <The_Vulture> pulaski: chars are not objects
[09:14:51] <Cow_woC> The_Vulture: I'm not sure I understand what you mean
[09:15:06] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: The 'C' or 'f' itself.
[09:15:09] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: Unicode is defined by a bunch of code points, the actual characters and a numerical value associated with it.
[09:15:10] <high-bass> alright sweet it works lol
[09:15:10] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: Java is retarded.
[09:15:16] <pulaski> I see, The_Vulture. sorry to sound stupid but I'm new at this
[09:15:18] <high-bass> thanks for your patience vulture
[09:15:28] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: a specific encoding of unicode deals with fixed size chunks - eg: utf8, utf16, etc.
[09:15:29] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: It implements primitives and objects :\
[09:15:47] <bpalmer> Cow_woC: is that really how they did it?
[09:16:01] <The_Vulture> For any specific encoding there's a way to deal with characters with code points higher than the chunk can hold - then you get multi byte/word/etc characters.
[09:16:09] <pulaski> yes I understand a char is a primitve pr3d...
[09:16:14] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: Cool.
[09:16:33] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: Java processors deal with things in 32-bit words.
[09:16:41] <The_Vulture> bpalmer: it's how they would have done it to begin with - unicode's been larger than 16 bits for many years now, and probably had mechanisms in place to handle that case even before java was created
[09:16:54] <The_Vulture> (not that java would have supported such mechanisms in those days, but they would have existed)
[09:16:57] <Cow_woC> bpalmer: so far as I remember... read up on it .. I think it was introduced in Java5
[09:16:58] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: So all primitives are mapped to 32-bit registers/stack entries, etc.
[09:17:03] <pulaski> In my text though there are no examples of compareTo or equals methods the work with char types
[09:17:09] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: Ditto for references ;)
[09:17:15] <Cow_woC> Java5 brought a lot of very nice things API-wise and a lot of bad things language-extension-wise
[09:17:21] <Cow_woC> what a mixed bag :)
[09:17:24] <Garibaldi> pulaski: you don't compareTo or equals primitives
[09:17:26] <The_Vulture> pulaski: because there are no such methods, these primitive types don't have methods or any other members
[09:17:34] <Garibaldi> pulaski: that's for objects
[09:18:02] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: Can you give me an example of what you're trying to do?  Not in Java, just describe it.
[09:18:14] <pulaski> and that's why they're called primitives.
[09:18:22] <Cow_woC> The_Vulture: I'm not sure I understand though, Java has been 16-bit chars for a while... if unicode required more than that, how come they only began encoding at unicode 3.0?
[09:18:49] <pulaski> sure I prompt the user for a temp double and a type Cc or Ff.
[09:19:02] <pulaski> char type that is
[09:19:09] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: Ah.
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[09:19:21] <pulaski> then I need to determine the value of the char type
[09:19:21] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: Gotcha.  And you wind up with "C" or "F" instead of 'C' or 'F'.
[09:19:32] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: they probably just added support for it recently. I'm pretty sure the code points have gone beyond 16 bits quite a while ago - though I could be wrong, and I certainly don't know the details.
[09:19:56] <pulaski> compare it to "CcFf" or some sort of regular expression
[09:20:01] <bpalmer> yeah, but not in unicode 1.0
[09:20:24] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: switch (userInput.charAt(0)) { case 'C' : this.convertToFarenheit(); break; case 'F' : this.convertToCentigrade(); break; default : this.convertToRadians(); break; }
[09:20:29] <bpalmer> when java came out, utf-16 could do everything in a single char
[09:20:29] <pulaski> thank you pr3d4tor
[09:20:54] <bpalmer> perhaps a Character.toLowerCase() might be useful, too
[09:20:57] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: switch (userInput.toUppwerCase().charAt(0)) ...
[09:21:18] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: This will execute faster than mucking with regular expressions.
[09:21:49] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: If you're doing a lot of regular expressions work, consider working in awk instead.  Three lines of awk code (maybe even one) convert into a horrible mess of Java code.
[09:21:50] <The_Vulture> Character.toLowerCase(userInput.charAt(0)) would execute faster again.. ;)
[09:21:57] <Cow_woC> The_Vulture, bpalmer: they should just have introduced Char24 and be done with it
[09:22:05] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: or not..
[09:22:07] <bpalmer> Cow_woC: ick
[09:22:14] <Cow_woC> why?
[09:22:22] <pulaski> pr3d4t0r> pulaski: switch (userInput.charAt(0)) { case 'C' :
[09:22:22] <pulaski>            this.convertToFarenheit(); break; case 'F' :
[09:22:22] <pulaski>            this.convertToCentigrade(); break; default :
[09:22:23] <pulaski>            this.convertToRadians(); break; }
[09:22:23] <bpalmer> they should just promote char type to 24 bits, and deal
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[09:22:36] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: Introducing a new type every time the character set changes doesn't scale. You just end up with a mess of a language.
[09:22:39] <bpalmer> also, they should make chars non-integral
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[09:22:52] <pr3d4t0r> Erm... Mike.
[09:23:00] <The_Vulture> what bpalmer said are possibilities
[09:23:01] <Cow_woC> bpalmer: non-integral how?
[09:23:06] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: It's rude to come to a channel and not read the /topic.
[09:23:08] <bpalmer> opaque data-type
[09:23:09] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: just make them an opaque type
[09:23:25] <Cow_woC> I don't understand :) give me an example
[09:23:25] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell pulaski about pastebin
[09:23:26] <pulaski> I under stand, pardon me.
[09:23:31] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: No worries.
[09:23:31] <javabot> pulaski, Paste your code, preferably a test case, any errors, and any other relevant information into the pastebin and tell us the URL: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin
[09:23:36] <bpalmer> then the only thing to worry about is byte-code incompatibility, since programmers couldn't know how many bits are being used
[09:23:36] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: Make it impossible to access the integral value backing a char.
[09:23:41] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: ^^^ pastebin :)
[09:23:51] <pulaski> I thank you for that bit of code.
[09:23:52] <The_Vulture> Make it a type that just represents a character. Regardless of type size.
[09:23:56] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: If I'd been serious I'd /banned you :)
[09:23:57] <The_Vulture> what bpalmer said, again.
[09:24:08] <pulaski> I was able to grab it ok
[09:24:17] <Cow_woC> The_Vulture: ok, but then how do you know what the character value is?
[09:24:25] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: "value" in what sense?
[09:24:32] <bpalmer> Cow_woC: it'd support operators ==, and maybe < and >
[09:24:35] <The_Vulture> numerical value - you don't, because you shouldn't.
[09:24:43] <bpalmer> it wouldn't support +, -, *, /, so on
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[09:24:55] <Cow_woC> bpalmer, The_Vulture: but if the type is opaque, how would I check if the character is "C" for example?
[09:25:05] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: by comparing it with another character..
[09:25:11] <bpalmer> if c == 'C'. operator == would know how to do the right thing
[09:25:13] <The_Vulture> char c = 'C'; if (c == 'C')
[09:25:25] <Cow_woC> bpalmer, The_Vulture: so what changes then? it all looks the same to me
[09:25:35] <bpalmer> Cow_woC: but you couldn't do math with it
[09:25:36] <The_Vulture> you don't have to know, or depend on the fact that 'C' is in fact 67
[09:25:47] <bpalmer> oh, yeah, that too, you couldn't compare with numbers
[09:25:48] <Cow_woC> bpalmer: what kind of math? convert to int? that's crap in my book anyway
[09:25:59] <Cow_woC> The_Vulture: yeah, that's fine .. they should do away with that
[09:25:59] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: You should just follow me to a nicer language like Objective-C or Ruby.
[09:25:59] <bpalmer> perl!
[09:26:13] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: You don't have to deal with whether it overflows at 16 or 24, or 32 bits, you can't write code that uses the integral value of a char in ways that wouldn't scale to different sizes, etc..
[09:26:14] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: My friend keeps on talking to me about Ruby
[09:26:30] <bpalmer> ruby on rails seems to be the hot topic of the day
[09:26:32] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: then again, he likes looking for excuses not to code ... 'cuz he is a shitty programmer. So I tend to avoid his advice
[09:26:50] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: Speaking of nicer languages, how's about a nicer platform. Have you ever heard of/looked at this: http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu/
[09:26:59] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: I seldom code now.  When I do, I go for elegance.  Ruby is elegant at what it does.
[09:27:03] <The_Vulture> I've been using it for part of my thesis work - I quite like it.
[09:27:17] <Cow_woC> The_Vulture: anything based on GCC must be evil
[09:27:18] <Cow_woC> :)
[09:27:48] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: It isn't. It uses GCC's front ends as a simple hack, though there's some plan to write front ends from scratch. The actual LLVM system itself is standalone C++.
[09:27:54] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: No... neat.
[09:28:04] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: They're reinventing what IBM did in 1970.
[09:28:24] <The_Vulture> 'tis. Because it has a native SSA bytecode, and profiling support, it was ideal for my thesis (where I needed profile & control flow augmented SSA graphs as input)
[09:28:29] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: which was?
[09:28:34] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: VM.
[09:29:14] <The_Vulture> well yeah, it's "yet another" VM - I just quite like the architecture, rather well written/designed C++
[09:29:45] <Cow_woC> well look ... bytecode / Java platform is pretty darn good ...
[09:29:50] <Cow_woC> no real need to change that
[09:30:05] <Cow_woC> and nothing prevents one from writing a cleaned up Java no top of the Java platform
[09:30:08] <Cow_woC> like "Java2"
[09:30:09] <Cow_woC> :)
[09:30:13] * pr3d4t0r smacks Cow_woC
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[09:30:22] * Cow_woC throws pr3d4t0r a cookie
[09:30:24] <calamari> hi
[09:30:31] <pr3d4t0r> calamari: Howdy :)
[09:30:32] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: I just don't much like how high level Java's (or .NET's) bytecode is. It's not really a basis for significantly different languages, or a whole architecture
[09:30:39] <pr3d4t0r> calamari: Welcome to pr3d4t0r's house of sexual pleasure.
[09:30:41] * Cow_woC hands pr3d4t0r some milk ... m00
[09:30:53] <calamari> lol
[09:30:56] <Cow_woC> The_Vulture: hmm, well, I like it :)
[09:31:14] <Cow_woC> The_Vulture: sure beats ASM :)
[09:31:36] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: By Sun's chief Java architect own admission, the JVM is a *kludge* and they haven't fixed its shortcomings on purpose in the name of backward compatibility.
[09:31:48] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: "ASM" doesn't really mean anything. There are lots of different assembly languages.
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[09:31:57] <Cow_woC> intel x86 asm
[09:32:02] <Cow_woC> or motorola
[09:32:04] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: You probably weren't here when I did this... I was trolling him a few days ago when he came to talk to us about Java and its futures.
[09:32:06] <Cow_woC> neither was fun to code in
[09:32:10] <The_Vulture> LLVM assembly for example. Or Jasmin's assembly.. (Java bytecode)
[09:32:14] <calamari> is there any way to monitor memory usage, short of waiting around for an OutOfMemoryError ?
[09:32:24] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: trolling who?
[09:32:32] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Sun's chief architect for Java.
[09:32:32] <The_Vulture> calamari: Look at te System and/or Runtime classes
[09:32:41] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: He was at my company for a presentation.
[09:32:48] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: he came to IRC?
[09:32:49] <Cow_woC> :)
[09:32:50] <calamari> vulture: thanks, I'll check that out
[09:32:53] <Cow_woC> man ... we're such nerds
[09:32:53] * pr3d4t0r smacks Cow_woC
[09:32:59] <Cow_woC> oh ok :)
[09:33:00] <Cow_woC> heh
[09:33:02] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: He was at my company.
[09:33:07] <Cow_woC> ok, nice
[09:33:10] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: It was a good presentation, actually.
[09:33:18] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: But I couldn't resist trolling him.
[09:33:48] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: When he shoewed us a stupid feature in Dolphin (Java 7) I almost left the room.  Many of us gasped.
[09:33:50] <Cow_woC> well again.......... all nice and good ... but I want someone to write Java2 which similar to Java but cleaned up. I don't want a whole new language thank you very much. Just maybe Java minus some C/C++ baggage (see "switch" for example)
[09:34:04] <Cow_woC> and maybe drop checked exceptions and primitives like we mentioned
[09:34:05] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: where's Java 6 at?
[09:34:06] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Some dumbass is thinking of building XML parsing INTO the Java language itself.
[09:34:20] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Mustang; est. release data 3Q 2006.
[09:34:34] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: yeah I know... I posted a thing against it on java.net ... everyone who read it posted their agreement
[09:34:39] <The_Vulture> I'd rather take C++, clean it up a little and make it the native language of LLVM :)
[09:34:55] <The_Vulture> well actually just writing a clean C++ front end for LLVM would be a start
[09:34:55] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Dude, you're a smart feller.
[09:35:02] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: So here's some unsolicited advise.
[09:35:03] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: so far as I can tell, no one wants XML as part of Java except the marketing guys
[09:35:07] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: 1. Buy a Mac
[09:35:13] <Cow_woC> heh
[09:35:15] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: 2. Learn Objective-C/Cocoa.
[09:35:20] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Then we'll talk.
[09:35:34] <Cow_woC> and 3. C++ is full of C baggage
[09:35:39] <Cow_woC> we need a language without this baggage ;)
[09:35:41] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: noted - I really need to learn a bunch more languages, of just about any sort
[09:35:43] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: So is Java.
[09:35:49] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: much less so
[09:36:02] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: Eh, the main thing I'd want to remove would be the preprocessor, then add a proper concept of modules.
[09:36:04] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: C++'s problem is not the C baggage.
[09:36:23] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: It's the C++ baggage.  Stupid things like friends and virtual object members.
[09:36:30] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Templates.
[09:36:39] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: I read this somewhere:
[09:37:00] <pr3d4t0r> "C++ is history rewritten as a tragedy.  Java is history rewritten as a farse."
[09:37:18] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: Hehe - I might not wholel disagree on either point.
[09:37:26] <The_Vulture> I like tragedies :)
[09:37:32] <Cow_woC> well yeah, C++ has a lot of C++-specific crap too
[09:38:01] <Cow_woC> I'd like Java2 to be a step from Java as Java was to c++
[09:38:09] <Cow_woC> "ease of migration, less crap"
[09:38:14] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: The C stuff is quite well-designed and useful.  It's the C++ only stuff that makes even the Steely Eyed Software Guys look at it and think without blinking... What the fuck?
[09:38:27] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: lack of enums was crap
[09:38:36] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: and void* was ... well, not nice :)
[09:38:53] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Enumerated types are about the only well-thoughtout feature in Java 5.
[09:39:02] <Cow_woC> agreed
[09:39:10] <Cow_woC> that and covarient return types which I love
[09:39:15] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Oh, C++ enums.  No, those are fine.  And void * is a hell of useful.
[09:39:22] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: That's C, by the way; not C++.
[09:39:25] <Cow_woC> Java5 has a lot of ncie API additions (concurrent being a big one) but language wise it was pretty bad
[09:39:47] <Cow_woC> C++'s static_cast, dynamic_cast blah ... was crap
[09:39:55] <Cow_woC> I might as well be coding in FORTRAN
[09:40:07] <high-bass> you guys have any links to the deal behind static methods/variable?
[09:40:16] <The_Vulture> high-bass: see the tutorials
[09:40:20] <The_Vulture> they teach you stuff..
[09:40:23] <The_Vulture> it's really cool like that :)
[09:40:47] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Code in RATFOR instead.  Real Men(tm) use RATFOR.
[09:40:56] <Drone> View pulaski's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8537
[09:41:07] <The_Vulture> high-bass: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/javaOO/classvars.html
[09:41:40] * The_Vulture thinks pulaski isn't listening
[09:42:21] <Cow_woC> heh
[09:43:04] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Java:  int nLoop; for (nLoop = 0;nLoop < LIMIT;nLoop++) doStuff();
[09:43:21] <Drone> View pulaski's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8538
[09:43:31] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: RATFOR:  INT nLoop; for (nLoop = 0;nLoop < LIMIT;nLoop++) doStuff();
[09:43:57] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: And the best part...  RATFOR is RATional FORTRAN.
[09:44:10] <The_Vulture> I notice you didn't declare nLoop inside the for construct..
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[09:45:01] <pulaski> whois pr*
[09:45:12] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: That was just for show ;)
[09:45:21] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: To make the parallel with RATFOR more obvious.
[09:45:32] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: I thought so :)
[09:45:38] <The_Vulture> pulaski: So, what type is 'type'?
[09:45:43] <pulaski> hi pr3d4t0r
[09:45:47] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski!
[09:45:53] <pulaski> hi Vulture
[09:45:55] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: Wait... weren't you here all along?
[09:45:59] <pulaski> type is a char
[09:46:16] <pulaski> temperature is a double
[09:46:27] <The_Vulture> pulaski: right, and what did we say about primitive types NOT HAVING MEMBERS?
[09:46:34] <pulaski> they are both instances of the class temperature
[09:46:37] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Look at the pastebin's current entry number.
[09:46:42] <high-bass> thanks again vulture that refreshed memory..
[09:46:48] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: I'm betting we clock 10,000 before 1.Jan.2006.
[09:47:13] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: You reckon - do you have any graphs of usage? and when did it start?
[09:47:24] <pulaski> gee can you guys look at my code on pastebin?
[09:47:29] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Yeah.  Hold on.
[09:47:40] <The_Vulture> pulaski: I already did..
[09:47:40] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: I don't remember when it started; it was in the old lavender server.
[09:47:46] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: But I have
[09:47:54] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Webalizer stats for this year.
[09:48:10] <The_Vulture> pulaski: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/operators.html
[09:48:17] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: My site's been really active this month.  Around 260 hits/day on average, sushi HOWTO alone.
[09:48:23] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Hold on.
[09:48:29] <The_Vulture> nice
[09:48:39] <pulaski> http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/operato
[09:48:40] <Drone> That URL gave the following error code: 404 Not found
[09:49:28] <Cow_woC> add an r :)
[09:49:44] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: 505 pastebin visits this year so far.
[09:49:49] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: s/year/month/
[09:50:10] <pulaski> thanks for the link yes
[09:50:24] <The_Vulture> another 150 in two and a half months - not too extreme
[09:50:28] <The_Vulture> be close though
[09:50:33] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: The pastebin gets around 650 views pler month.
[09:50:50] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: The ratio of posts to views is about 3:1.
[09:50:58] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: So it'll be close.
[09:51:06] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Finals season, however, is coming up.
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[09:51:16] <The_Vulture> *nods*
[09:51:18] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Big spike when kids are doing their homework.
[09:51:32] * pr3d4t0r wonders where Lola is.
[09:51:38] * pr3d4t0r thinks she's running somewhere.
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[09:52:23] <pulaski> even with the "r" it seems a bad link
[09:52:37] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: What are you trying to do?
[09:52:47] <The_Vulture> is it really that hard to open the link I gave you..
[09:52:50] <The_Vulture> why did you feel the need to repeat it?
[09:52:54] <The_Vulture>  http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/operators.html
[09:52:58] <The_Vulture> yeesh.
[09:52:59] <pulaski> no sorry
[09:53:10] <pulaski> "rs"
[09:53:12] <pulaski> thanks
[09:53:59] <pr3d4t0r> OKi, time to watch "Desperate Housewives" and have some dessert.
[09:54:02] <pr3d4t0r> Have a good night, kids.
[09:54:07] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Don't disappear.
[09:54:21] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: At least show up once more before you go on the path of fortune and glory.
[09:54:38] * pr3d4t0r went to watch TV.
[09:54:51] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: *nods* catch you later
[09:54:51] * pr3d4t0r clarifies:  watch TV shows on iTunes.
[09:54:56] <The_Vulture> ;)
[09:55:15] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: I had to clarify because I brag of not having a TV at home.
[09:55:28] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Nor watching most shows when they air... until now.  I can't stand commercials.
[09:55:28] <The_Vulture> hehe, ok then :)
[09:55:49] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: So... I bought the complete first season of "Desperate Housewives".  Great show.
[09:55:52] <The_Vulture> I'm planning on setting up a nice Linux server/media box. Digital recording and all that. Then just watch playbacks as necessary
[09:56:13] <The_Vulture> Good good, can't say I've watched much. Only DVD boxed set I have is Invader Zim - which is pure gold :)
[09:56:17] <The_Vulture> hilarious
[09:56:17] <The_Vulture> anyway, enjoy
[09:57:05] <pr3d4t0r> Cheers.
[09:57:05] * pr3d4t0r kisses pulaski good night.
[09:57:05] <pr3d4t0r> pulaski: 'Nite, sweetie.
[09:57:47] <pulaski> thank yo pr3d4t0r
[09:57:53] <pulaski> g'night
[09:58:31] <pulaski> I'll try your code!
[09:59:27] <pulaski> and The_Vulture, thank you too.
[09:59:39] <pulaski> cya
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[10:03:16] <Agent0rangE> anyone have any good resouce channels for eclipse ide?
[10:03:26] <high-bass> i hate eclipse
[10:03:29] <high-bass> cmd line >
[10:04:02] <Agent0rangE> eclipse is nice when ur working on monolithic project
[10:05:14] <pr3d4t0r> Agent0rangE: Er... no, it's not.
[10:05:50] <pr3d4t0r> Agent0rangE: One of the biggest sites on the web, written in Java, is as monolithic as they come and it's not built with Eclipse.  Or any IDE at that.  None is big enough/powerfull enough.
[10:06:03] <pr3d4t0r> Agent0rangE: Only the best IDE can handle that... UNIX!
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[10:06:10] <pr3d4t0r> Agent0rangE: And please cut the aolbonics.
[10:06:13] <pr3d4t0r> Esaj!
[10:06:16] <high-bass> ok another newb question when you have like a boolen var... which is initialized to say true... then if you do somthing like if (bool_name) what does that mean again?
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[10:06:26] <high-bass> if bool_name == false?
[10:06:36] <The_Vulture> high-bass: what drugs are you on?
[10:06:49] <The_Vulture> if (condition) when the condition is true, the block is executed..
[10:06:54] <high-bass> dude i havent taken java for like 4 years
[10:06:56] <The_Vulture> so if your condition is just a boolean value.. think about it.
[10:07:00] <high-bass> i forgot basic stuff
[10:07:05] <high-bass> ok.. i got it thanks
[10:07:07] <The_Vulture> It doesn't require you to have taken Java. It requires you to have a brain.
[10:07:15] <Cow_woC> damnit
[10:07:37] <Cow_woC> I'm using Class.getMethod() to look up a method, it says the method doesn't exist, but it does in the superclass (two levels up)
[10:07:40] <high-bass> uh i can very well interpret that above statment as if (condition) when the condition is false
[10:07:41] <Cow_woC> shouldn't this work?
[10:07:42] <Agent0rangE> pr3d4t0r: i guess eclipse is just totally useless. IBM has their head up their ass
[10:07:46] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: RTFM :)
[10:07:54] <Cow_woC> The_Vulture: I did, it should work
[10:07:58] <The_Vulture> high-bass: huh?
[10:08:11] <The_Vulture> Cow_woC: provide a test case :)
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[10:14:25] <Cow_woC> seems I need getDeclaredMethod() instead of getMethod()
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[10:16:58] <pr3d4t0r> Agent0rangE: Whatever makes you happy, mate.
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[10:17:30] * pr3d4t0r ponders that Eclipse is probably OKi for smaller companies like IBM.
[10:17:51] <Cow_woC> Agent0rangE: in my experience, there are countless IDEs but I use Netbeans because I like the team behind it. They're very friendly, prompt and work well developing the product and supporting their users
[10:18:00] <Cow_woC> Agent0rangE: one of the few/only open-source projects to do so...
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[10:18:40] <pr3d4t0r> The_Vulture: Man, I'm too tired.  I can't get a good troll going tonight.
[10:18:50] <Cow_woC> Netbeans has had its ups and downs. A few versions ago it was very fast. Then they added a whole slew of features to match Eclipse, now it's slower :P
[10:19:05] <Cow_woC> yeah I better head off to bed too
[10:19:07] <Cow_woC> good night all :)
[10:19:28] <The_Vulture> pr3d4t0r: Yeesh, clearly not trying hard enough ;)
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[10:20:08] <Agent0rangE> well eclipse is not only for java. You can use it for everything
[10:20:41] <Agent0rangE> its one of the most versitile and full featured ides out ther
[10:20:56] <pr3d4t0r> Bevin!
[10:21:07] <Bevin> hey
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[10:31:49] <Baloogan> could someone help me with java 3d?
[10:32:41] <Drone> View Baloogan's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8539
[10:32:51] <Baloogan> I'm just getting a white shere.
[10:32:59] <Baloogan> I'm not getting lighting effects
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[10:35:41] <Baloogan> Anyone?
[10:35:43] <Baloogan> ??????
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[10:37:16] <codejunky> lol
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[11:02:11] <Java_the_Hutt> is it possible to create a key logger with Java ?
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[11:02:52] <Baloogan> Java_the_Hutt: Christ, if you want a password just grab the person who knows the password and break his/her fingers one by one until he/she gives you the password.
[11:03:52] <bpalmer> Considering the number of people I know who admit to no longer knowing their passwords, but instead rely on typing it in with muscle memory....
[11:04:03] <bpalmer> that might be a bad course of action, baloogan :-)
[11:04:35] <Baloogan> After you finish off all 10 fingers and thumbs move on to toes.
[11:04:43] <Java_the_Hutt> No
[11:05:00] <Java_the_Hutt> I was just curious if such a thing is possible with Java
[11:05:16] <Java_the_Hutt> i can do one with C++ intefereing with direct API of OS
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[11:13:59] <The_Ball> i thought it was possible to do iterator++ in java?
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[11:27:59] <oober> How can I convert a List that contains ex ObjectA to a List<ObjectA>?
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[11:32:57] <gabb> Hi, is there a way to add a JToolBar at the top with GridBagLayout - but with a static size and no "padding"? Or would I have to do nested layouts to accomplish that?
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[11:48:40] <tezem> I think I have some Problem with using the Scanner. I use a constructor -> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/UIz0el35.html and it works if I call it the first time. But the second time I get a NoSuchElement Exception from the nextline(). What is my mistake?
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[11:57:54] <rogue-kun{B}|Awa> tezem: umm the s.close();
[11:57:57] *** rogue-kun{B}|Awa is now known as rogue-kun{B}
[11:58:16] <rogue-kun{B}> you closed the stream before you where done useing it
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[12:06:17] <tezem> rogue-kun{B}: I don't understand sorry. I can read the input line when I first call the constructor only on the second call it doesn't work.
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[12:09:34] <tezem> rogue-kun{B}: ah ok thx ;-)
[12:10:15] <tezem> I thought I can open and close the stream every time
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[13:13:00] <hatOFF> Any ideea why i'm getting JVM Errorr Fatal exception occured ? Program will exit java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: main
[13:13:20] <The_Vulture> hatOFF: because you're trying to run a class that doesn't have a main method..
[13:13:33] <hatOFF> public void main() {
[13:13:38] <Stork> what are the flaws with this encryption/decryption algorythm: http://rafb.net/paste/results/Vmtgt962.html
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[13:19:06] <gabb> hatOFF, public static void main ( String args[] ) {}
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[13:21:46] <The_Vulture> Stork: sounds vaguely like homework
[13:21:49] <The_Vulture> hatOFF: read a tutorial
[13:21:51] <Stork> it's not
[13:21:59] <Stork> if i had java homework i'd be in heaven
[13:22:16] <Stork> but i don't
[13:22:32] <Stork> so please don't accuse :\
[13:23:07] <The_Vulture> Stork: so why are you doing that?
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[13:23:28] <Stork> because i need to simply encrypt some data in my current project
[13:23:34] <The_Vulture> so use JCE.
[13:23:41] <Stork> simply*
[13:23:59] <cybereal> rot13!
[13:24:04] <The_Vulture> And you think you'll be able to invent something just as secure as say, RSA? just off the top of your head?
[13:24:09] <cybereal> ~rot13 All the cool kids are doing it
[13:24:09] <javabot> Nyy gur pbby xvqf ner qbvat vg
[13:24:26] <Stork> rot13 was a possibility, but i chose to not use it
[13:24:29] <delvinj> heh nice
[13:24:32] <cybereal> The_Vulture: I'd guess his real goal is obfuscation
[13:24:35] <The_Vulture> There's a name for your encryption scheme, and simple ways of attacking it. I'm just trying to remember the name.
[13:24:46] <Stork> The_Vulture: i did say simply :\
[13:24:50] <The_Vulture> Stork: If rot13 is a possibility, why are you bothering at all?
[13:25:01] <Stork> you don't listen do you
[13:25:03] <Stork> /ignored
[13:25:14] <The_Vulture> why do people bother, really?
[13:25:18] <cybereal> Dunno
[13:25:48] <gabb> The_Vulture, you're looking for the word block cipher?
[13:25:58] <Stork> because i need to make some SIMPLE encryption for my project
[13:26:05] <Stork> not fucking 512 bit hashing
[13:26:08] <The_Vulture> gabb: that could be a name for it.. but there's a name starting with "V" for that type of encryption
[13:26:16] <gabb> Vigenere?
[13:26:20] <The_Vulture> that's the word
[13:26:23] <gabb> :)
[13:26:29] <The_Vulture> someone care to explain to Stork that it's pointless. Either he should use something real, or just not bother.
[13:26:43] <The_Vulture> obfuscation is just a waste of time and effort
[13:26:53] <Stork> why would i make an obfuscater
[13:27:00] <redduck666> in pph i can do somehing like (!($integer)) or (blah blah). this makes sure that $integer is defined before executing the blah part of the code. any ideas how to do that in java?
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[13:27:03] <redduck666> php
[13:27:03] <teledat> hi folks
[13:27:10] <cybereal> Stork: simple/weak encryption accomplishes little more than obfuscation
[13:27:20] <The_Vulture> redduck666: A value cannot be "undefined" in Java.
[13:27:24] <The_Vulture> So such a construct doesn't make sense.
[13:27:27] <cybereal> Stork: though it is a valid goal, i.e. if you know the file is secure but you don't want passwords to be readable
[13:27:29] <The_Vulture> All variables have well defined values.
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[13:27:34] <teledat> how can i make a textfield accept only 10 chars input? setColumns doesnt seems to work....
[13:27:42] <Stork> cybereal: the idea is to make sure people can't steal the data at a glance
[13:27:48] <The_Vulture> cybereal: What?
[13:27:53] <cybereal> Stork: obfuscation then
[13:27:54] <Stork> not so people have no way of ever retreiving it
[13:28:04] <Stork> i mean the data i've encrypted
[13:28:04] <The_Vulture> Stork: So you only care about those that glance, not those that take a 3 second look?
[13:28:09] <The_Vulture> Stork: Why bother?
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[13:28:16] <Stork> stop talking to me
[13:28:23] <redduck666> The_Vulture i am playing with getting info from command line. so i would like the program to do something if more than one parameters are supplied
[13:28:24] <The_Vulture> cybereal: If you know the file is secure, why do you care if something's readable?
[13:28:39] <redduck666> The_Vulture any ideas how to do that?
[13:28:40] <Stork> stop telling me what i need for my project
[13:28:41] <The_Vulture> redduck666: so look at the length of the array passed to main..
[13:28:47] <The_Vulture> Stork: Stop being stupid :)
[13:28:55] <Stork> how is it stupid?!
[13:29:00] <cybereal> The_Vulture: Two administrators have access to a file that has lots of config data plus both of their passwords: they don't want to be able to easily read each others' password.  It's common and actually came up where I work a couple times.
[13:29:05] <The_Vulture> Stork: It's a waste of time & effort.
[13:29:09] <Stork> NO IT'S NOT
[13:29:12] <redduck666> The_Vulture hehe, i've never tought of that. thank you
[13:29:19] <Stork> STOP FUCKING TELLING WHAT MY PROJECT IS OR ISN'T
[13:29:22] <The_Vulture> Stork: so what does it achieve?
[13:29:24] <cybereal> The_Vulture: There is 'trust' there but at the same time, there's no reason to leave it plaintext when a simple obfuscation technique would suffice
[13:30:01] <Stork> The_Vulture: if someone comes round my house and stumbles on the data while i'm not there, the encryption will mean that they won't be able to steal it with great ease
[13:30:05] <The_Vulture> cybereal: rot13 perhaps. But having a better scheme would be nicer
[13:30:14] <Stork> therefore it works great
[13:30:26] <The_Vulture> Stork: what's the issue of ease got to do with it? if you care about the security, encrypt, if you don't, don't.
[13:30:28] <gabb> At least have the decency to use xor over a shift cipher.
[13:30:34] <cybereal> The_Vulture: also, if existing libraries for normal encryption are already there, you may as well use that *cough*jce*cough* :)
[13:30:45] <The_Vulture> cybereal: Like I suggested to begin with, pes.
[13:30:45] <cybereal> xor is easier than rot13 anyway
[13:30:48] <The_Vulture> s/pes/yes/
[13:31:03] <gabb> And less obvious.
[13:31:12] <The_Vulture> Stork: Anyway, if you're interested in what's wrong with the scheme you first proposed, go read about Vigenere
[13:31:22] <The_Vulture> simple frequency/shift analysis can attack it.
[13:31:41] <Stork> The_Vulture: how many times do i have to say simple
[13:31:43] <The_Vulture> But if you're asking about how "good" your "shit poor invented encryption" is - why bother. Just use JCE
[13:31:46] <cybereal> only issue maybe keeping it in ascii; I take the same obfuscation method that POP3 LOGIN method uses; just simply base64 it
[13:31:52] <The_Vulture> Stork: You asked what was broken about it, now you can go find out.
[13:32:00] <Stork> forget it
[13:32:03] <Stork> there's nothing wrong with it
[13:32:07] <Stork> just ignore me
[13:32:09] <The_Vulture> Stork: wtf?
[13:32:14] <The_Vulture> how do you figure there's "nothing wrong with it"
[13:32:25] <Stork> it does exactly what it's supposed to do
[13:32:28] <The_Vulture> You asked if there were any flaws, and there are.
[13:32:51] <The_Vulture> Stork: just rot13 it.
[13:32:57] <Stork> if you consider people being able to break it after like 15 mins a flaw, then good for you
[13:32:59] <Baloogan> ~asyncronus sockets
[13:33:00] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'applets and sockets' might be appropriate:
[13:33:01] <The_Vulture> if you don't trust those that might see it, JCE it.
[13:33:02] <javabot> Baloogan, applets and sockets is http://java.sun.com/sfaq/#socket
[13:33:10] <The_Vulture> It's a (moderately) simple API - why not use it?
[13:33:18] <Baloogan> ~Asynchronous
[13:33:19] <javabot> Baloogan, I have no idea what Asynchronous is.
[13:33:24] <Baloogan> well fuck you
[13:33:30] <The_Vulture> Stork: http://www.central.edu/homepages/LintonT/classes/spring01/cryptography/group/group3.html
[13:33:52] <The_Vulture> or anything else you find if you google for "vigenere attacks"
[13:33:58] <Baloogan> Could anyone link me too Asynchronous Sockets?
[13:34:21] <The_Vulture> You asked the question, so what properties could your scheme have that you would consider to be a "flaw"?
[13:34:51] <Stork> the only flaw i have is when i save the data to text files, and read it back, it's mis-translated
[13:35:03] <Stork> so i need to use a small key
[13:35:39] <gabb> Design question: how to model a network class and node class? Especially: how to store the nodes of a network? Would a simple Node[] array suffice if the user must supply the number of nodes anyway or does a ArrayList have other benefits?
[13:35:49] <Stork> ~native
[13:35:49] <javabot> Stork, native is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/native1.1
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[13:36:56] <Stork> if i could fix that it'd be perfect
[13:37:02] <Baloogan> ~threads
[13:37:02] <javabot> Baloogan, threads is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/essential/threads
[13:37:02] <The_Vulture> Stork: Yeah, that's going to break all over the place due to character encoding problems.
[13:37:07] <gabb> "perfect" is a strong statement ..
[13:37:32] <The_Vulture> Stork: Your legitimate characters will be mapped to characters that aren't in th encoding you use to write them to file, so they'll come out all broken.
[13:37:39] <gabb> It could be sufficient, but barely perfect.
[13:37:39] <The_Vulture> Suffering much lossage.
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[13:37:47] <The_Vulture> gabb: indeed
[13:38:00] <Stork> i could write them as ints?
[13:38:08] <The_Vulture> Stork: You might want to learn about character encodings. Joel On Software had a nice block about the very least any programmer should know about same.
[13:40:37] <gabb> Stork, you should not depend on the environment to pick a encoding for you. Read the text, convert to a integer representation in your prefered encoding, xor it or whatever you think is sufficient as encryption, transform it back to your encoding and make sure you don't have overflows if you use a "small" encoding like 7bit ascii or whatsoever.
[13:40:50] <Stork> i was thinking i could write them as ints
[13:41:04] <gabb> Store the ciphertext as ints ?
[13:41:16] <Stork> then convert them to chars
[13:41:25] <Stork> or i could check charsets, that's far more fun
[13:41:44] <Stork> which ones can you recommend i use? and how would i use them for that matter
[13:42:05] <The_Vulture> Stork: you don't need to change the encoding you are using, jsut understand what an encoding is, and why it's effecting what you are doing.
[13:42:08] <gabb> No - bad idea. You'd need seperators, which would make attacking it alot easier, same with padding each integer representation to the max size.
[13:42:19] <gabb> It's just bad  - do what The_Vulture said and read up on JCE.
[13:43:18] <The_Vulture> Java represents characters internally as utf16. But when you read/write files by default they are interpreted with the platform default encoding, probably something smaller than utf16. So not all characters in Java can be represented in the resulting file.
[13:43:57] <gabb> If you really must code your own encryption at least read up on the knapsack problem .. that should make you wish you used JCE from the beginning.
[13:44:30] <Baloogan> I need a good server library?
[13:44:39] <Baloogan> Are there such prebuilt things in java?
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[13:44:57] <Baloogan> I don't want to worry about
[13:44:57] <Baloogan> asyn sockets and such
[13:44:58] <The_Vulture> Baloogan: what kind of server?
[13:45:10] <The_Vulture> Baloogan: *shrugs* you could use RMI..
[13:45:15] <gabb> Baloogan, maybe you're just looking for RMI?
[13:45:17] <Baloogan> ~RMI
[13:45:17] <javabot> Baloogan, RMI is Remote Method Invocation or http://java.sun.com/tutorial/rmi
[13:45:18] <gabb> heh
[13:45:30] <Baloogan> Nope
[13:45:37] <Baloogan> Internet server :/
[13:45:48] <Baloogan> oh wai
[13:45:51] <Baloogan> let me read this
[13:46:27] <Baloogan> So this works over the internet?
[13:46:38] <gabb> I coded a instant messaging system with RMI once - it was for LAN use, but I don't see why RMI wouldn't work with inet.
[13:46:43] <Baloogan> Ok
[13:46:45] <Baloogan> leet!
[13:47:46] <redduck666> i'm telling my program to convert intup from command line to an int so it can use it later. if as input i enter a letter it throws me an "ungly" error, while i would like it to execute a piece of code. any ideas how to do this?
[13:47:51] <Stork> okay, i'll look at utf16
[13:47:56] <gabb> Apparently there is a wrapper named IIOP for the internet part.
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[13:53:17] <Stork> grr!
[13:53:34] <Stork> i tried using UTF-16 and it still read it in wrongly
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[13:55:12] <Honk^away> redduck666: google for try catch =)
[13:55:12] <terence_> hi
[13:55:23] <Honk^away> or exception handling
[13:55:47] <terence_> if file.close() is called, there is automatically done a flusg also isn't there?
[13:56:08] <terence_> Or do i have to flush and then close?
[13:56:25] <redduck666> Honk^away not sure what is that but first result is from m$ site :(
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[13:57:39] <gabb> redduck666, you can read that too - C#/.NET exception handling is the same as Java
[13:57:47] <gabb> (since they stole it)
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[13:58:08] <gabb> basically try-catch-finally with finally being optional
[13:58:11] <Honk^away> and you can add something to your google query to get results for java
[13:58:13] <Honk^away> *sigh*
[13:58:24] <gabb> Honk^away, now that idea is crazy!
[13:59:13] <Honk^away> yeah, he'd have to use parts of his brain for finding an appropriate google query
[13:59:15] <redduck666> hehe, thanks guys. reading some tut ATM
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[14:02:46] <Stork> i need help with this
[14:03:07] * The_Vulture shakes head in dismay
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[14:04:33] <Stork> the charset thing
[14:04:35] <Stork> not anything else
[14:05:29] <The_Vulture> Stork: If you want to do this "sort of" right. Write a FilterOutputStream & FilterInputStream - that way you can encrypt/decrypt bytes, without concern for encodings.
[14:05:51] <The_Vulture> Then if you want to encrypt/decrypt text just wrap those in InputStreamReaders and OutputStreamWriters
[14:08:49] <Stork> bleh, okay
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[14:09:40] <Mikey> Hey, Nooby Question [All tutorials seem to confuse me].. I'm trying to use LuaJava, and i have noo cule how to add stuff to my classpath [linux] :(
[14:12:27] <Stork> how would i use a Filter Input/Output Stream The_Vulture?
[14:14:11] <Stork> like, how would i convert my string to byte[] which could be written to the outputstream
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[14:14:57] <Stork> duh, string.getBytes();
[14:15:02] <The_Vulture> Stork: No..
[14:15:06] <Stork> no?
[14:15:12] <The_Vulture> You'd use InputStreamReaders and OutputStreamWriters. Like I already said.
[14:15:35] <Stork> wtf, that's what i'm looking at..
[14:15:49] <The_Vulture> so why would you need to use getBytes?
[14:15:51] <Stork> but how would i write the string to a file with the outputswtreamwriter
[14:16:02] <The_Vulture> You'd write the String to the OutputStreamWriter..
[14:16:32] <Stork> you said i needed filteroutputstream a minute ago
[14:16:39] <The_Vulture> it converts the String to bytes, writes them to the underlying OutputStream (your custom "EncryptingOutputStream" or whatever), which then writes th encrypted bytes to its underlying OutputStream (presumably a FileOutputStream)
[14:16:44] <The_Vulture> I said you needed to use both.
[14:16:51] <The_Vulture> 22:06 < The_Vulture> Then if you want to encrypt/decrypt text just wrap those in InputStreamReaders and OutputStreamWriters
[14:17:19] <The_Vulture> Wrapping, filters, learn about the basic ideas of the APIs you are using. http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/essential/io/index.html
[14:19:47] <Stork> forget it
[14:20:37] <The_Vulture> bleh. Time for a one liner..
[14:20:38] <gabb> The "how, why, help", "forget it" approach won't get you very far...
[14:20:59] <Stork> yeh, i'm going to try my way
[14:21:58] * The_Vulture laughs derisively in Stork's direction
[14:22:13] <The_Vulture> Stork: exactly why do you develop software if you aren't willing to learn how to do it well?
[14:22:43] <gabb> s/developing software/doing homework/
[14:22:59] <Stork> it's not homework, fuck off
[14:23:10] <The_Vulture> gabb: well he already insisted he wasn't doing homework, so I'll let him have that little claim
[14:23:23] <gabb> Are you seriously telling me you considered that "encryption" for a productive system? O_O
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[14:24:02] <Stork> you guys are faggots, do you know that?
[14:24:05] <The_Vulture> gabb: well if it's designed to produce pain in all those who see it running, then it's productive
[14:24:07] <Stork> just leave me alone
[14:24:17] <The_Vulture> Stork: No, I think I'll just continue to laugh at you.
[14:24:25] <Stork> fucking loser
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[14:24:38] <The_Vulture> aww... I wanted to tell him he was an idiot again
[14:24:39] <gabb> Interesting guy ..
[14:25:21] <gabb> "help me, help me" -> "forget it" -> "you faggots!"
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[14:25:47] <The_Vulture> logical sequence really
[14:25:59] <The_Vulture> I thought my idea of writing filters was a nice one..
[14:29:26] <teledat> anybody an idea how i can limit the amount of chars that are allowed to be inserted in a jtextfield?
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[14:34:45] <gabb> teledat, write a TextFieldDelimiter
[14:36:34] <Storkme> okay, my idea was stupid
[14:36:38] <gabb> teledat, http://www.rgagnon.com/javadetails/java-0198.html
[14:36:46] <Storkme> i'm going to swallow my pride and listen to other peoples :\
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[14:38:45] <teledat> gabb: thank you very much :)
[14:38:59] <The_Vulture> Storkme: So.. have you read about filter streams yet?
[14:39:11] <redduck666> http://pastebin.com/401837 any help appreciated
[14:40:36] <gabb> redduck666, get the Integer.parseInt out of the loop
[14:40:41] <gabb> put it in a try-catch block
[14:41:08] <redduck666> :(, thanks will look at it
[14:43:33] <Storkme> yes
[14:44:01] <gabb> redduck666, and the 2nd nested for-loop makes no sense - that's why the output is wrong
[14:44:54] <redduck666> gabb you mean the one with k or j?
[14:45:41] <hatOFF> what does while(in.read(charBuffer,0,1) != -1) mean?
[14:46:11] <The_Vulture> Storkme: so do you see how you could implement a FilterOutputStream to encrypt bytes appropriately?
[14:46:18] <The_Vulture> (and a corresponding FilterInputStream)
[14:47:26] <Storkme> maybe
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[14:51:01] <gabb> redduck666, k
[14:51:42] <gabb> hatOFF, it means it will read in data until there is nothing to read in anymore
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[14:52:24] <teledat> gabb: i tried as described on the site you told me, but it didn't work, i still can insert as many chars as i want. this is how i implemented it http://rafb.net/paste/results/xr422e33.html . maybe i did something wrong?
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[14:58:06] <calamari> hi
[14:58:08] <gabb> teledat, try this: http://rafb.net/paste/results/hH7Wdw19.html
[14:58:45] <calamari> Anyone know whats wrong with this?  text.replaceAll("\\\\", "\\");
[14:58:45] <calamari>   I'm getting java.lang.StringIndexOutOfBoundsException: String index out of range: 1
[14:59:14] <The_Vulture> calamari: post a test case and full stack trace
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[14:59:28] <calamari> ok
[14:59:37] <gabb> Test-driven development seems to be outdated ..
[15:00:42] <redduck666> gabb not to b!tch, but you sure? that is the part that remained untouched from what java teacher told us :?
[15:01:48] <gabb> redduck666, no, not sure - I am only sure about the stuff I do for myself, not the stuff I do for others, sorry
[15:01:58] <Drone> View calamari's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8540
[15:02:01] <teledat> gabb: still doesn't work...i think i have to find another solution...thanks anyway
[15:02:24] <The_Ball> Shouldn't line 33 cause a redraw to happen? the paintComponent does not seem to be called: http://rafb.net/paste/results/5Vphac99.html
[15:02:36] <calamari> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8540
[15:03:37] <redduck666> gabb thanks
[15:03:47] * redduck666 goes to lunch
[15:04:52] <calamari> maybe this is a bug?  hehe
[15:05:25] <calamari> somehow I doubt it though.. never found a bug in java.lang before
[15:05:54] <Epesh> calamari: it's been known to happen.
[15:08:12] <calamari> can anyone reproduce it?
[15:09:05] <Epesh> fails for me, Sun JVM 1.5.0, sparc-64
[15:09:34] <gabb> Same, 1.4.2 Blackdown, i586
[15:09:44] <calamari> ooh, gets even better if you add two more \'s
[15:10:11] <calamari> so that it's "\\\\\\", "\\"
[15:10:41] <Epesh> nah, it's pretty clear this isn't a bug, but an oddity
[15:11:02] <Epesh> the regex engine needs escaped \, but javac also needs escaped \
[15:11:07] <calamari> Exception in thread "main" java.util.regex.PatternSyntaxException: Unexpected internal error near index 3
[15:11:35] <The_Vulture> now an unexpected internal error, rather than a nice parse failure is representative of something not quite right
[15:11:47] <Epesh> The_Vulture: indeed
[15:11:51] <gabb> The only situation where C# Regex @-operator is useful.
[15:12:27] <calamari> replacing \\ by \\\\ seems to fix it
[15:12:37] <terence_> are there any sorting interfaces (on insert +descending) for collections?
[15:13:16] <The_Vulture> terence_: you want to keep a sorted collection on insertion?
[15:13:19] <The_Vulture> use a SortedSet..
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[15:13:47] <The_Vulture> if you want to sort an unsorted sequence, use Collections.sort(List) or sort(List, Comparator)
[15:14:37] <terence_> i want to fill a colection ..and i think it would be best in the sorting is done on insert, as at then when insertion is finsiged, wouldn't it?
[15:14:48] <calamari> well, I'm just going to use "\\\\", "\\\\" since it seems to get the job done.  Should I file any kind of bug report on this do you think?
[15:15:14] <Epesh> calamari: no, unless it's to improve error reporting from the regex engine
[15:15:24] <Epesh> it's not a bug, just bad behaviour
[15:15:59] <The_Vulture> well if you get something saying "internal error" I think it's reportable
[15:16:21] <The_Vulture> but yeah - it might just mean the difference between one error message and another more informative one
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[15:28:14] <Storkme> The_Vulture
[15:28:21] <Storkme> i decided to take an easier approach
[15:28:45] <Storkme> i'm using a set array of chars
[15:28:46] <The_Vulture> and not 'encrypt' at all - hurrah.
[15:29:02] <Storkme> so i can cyclic addition
[15:30:48] <The_Vulture> I present you with a variety of 'nice' ways to do it (not at all, with JCE, with filters) - you take none of them. And I'm still left wondering what and why you are developing.
[15:30:51] <The_Vulture> *shrugs*
[15:31:27] <Storkme> for me, it's not the same unless i do it myself :\
[15:31:38] <Storkme> because if i use someone elses i end up not understanding it fully
[15:31:47] <Storkme> it's an obsessive compulsive kind of thing
[15:32:49] <The_Vulture> that's an argument for not using JCE - maybe. except that you can't really do encryption without it (because you don't have the knowledge). Doesn't explain why you wouldn't at least use nice filter streams.. I even pointed you to tutorials explaining how to do that.
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[15:33:19] <The_Vulture> And I'm still left wondering _WHY_ you are developing software in general, and this system in particular.
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[15:34:47] <Storkme> The_Vulture: my way is more fun
[15:35:51] <Storkme> it's all for leisure, really
[15:35:53] <The_Vulture> I can think of more fun things. Like choosing projects and objectives that you can actually do with the knowledge you have. Rather than implementing something that's of no practical value.
[15:36:09] <Storkme> you must be such a boring person to know
[15:36:15] <Storkme> do you have a wife/girlfriend ?
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[15:36:48] <The_Vulture> *shrugs* I may well be boring. I like to find more interesting challenges, that's all.
[15:37:03] <Epesh> Storkme: try to be polite.
[15:37:15] <The_Vulture> Though it seems irrelevant - no, I don't. By choice at this point.
[15:37:28] * Storkme refrains
[15:37:29] <gabb> Hmm .. you can't disable() a JPanel in a JTabbedPane ?
[15:38:00] <The_Vulture> Storkme: If you're interested in actually learning Java - you really ought to read Sun's tutorials. Learn about streams, among other things.
[15:38:18] <Storkme> i thought i was well overdue for learning some crypto
[15:38:22] <Storkme> or whatever they call it
[15:38:23] <The_Vulture> The filtered approach I suggested earlier really is a nice design for the problem. (and actually the approach JCE takes - though they implement real crypto)
[15:38:30] <The_Vulture> Storkme: But you aren't.
[15:38:53] <Storkme> right
[15:39:16] <Storkme> i've been idling in #crypto for a while, the owner of the channel said it was a reasonable algorythm
[15:39:22] <Storkme> that's good enough for m
[15:39:30] <Storkme> me*
[15:39:39] <The_Vulture> algorithm. And reasonable for what purpose?
[15:39:54] <The_Vulture> *shrugs* if you want to learn about crypto, at least read about the algo you are implementing (vigenere)
[15:40:06] <gabb> Just because someone is owner of some channel does say he knows what he is talking about.
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[15:40:11] <The_Vulture> it's a slight modification on Ceasar cypher, it's quite a bit older than you
[15:40:37] <gabb> I doubt that I would be allowed to fly jets, just because I open #steathfighter
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[15:40:49] <gabb> *stealth even
[15:41:21] <Storkme> gabb: he knows, trust me
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[15:41:40] <Storkme> hey ben
[15:42:24] <OMFG_> hi2Stork
[15:42:40] <gabb> HAI 2 U 2
[15:42:45] * gabb looks around
[15:42:46] <OMFG_> hi2gabb
[15:44:41] <Storkme> is there a term for generally encrypting/decrypting ?
[15:45:08] <The_Vulture> Storkme: crypto, cryptography?
[15:45:27] <Storkme> i was thinking maybe a little more specific
[15:45:31] <Storkme> for my class name
[15:45:35] <The_Vulture> just for both encryption & decryption - no, I don't believe so.
[15:45:35] <gabb> You asked for a general term.
[15:45:40] <Storkme> i know
[15:45:44] <Storkme> badly worded
[15:45:49] <Storkme> alright, thanks vulture
[15:45:59] <The_Vulture> You should, imo have two separate classes anyway. I'd have an DecryptingInputStream and an EncryptingOutputStream.
[15:46:05] <The_Vulture> Actually JCE just calls them Cypher
[15:46:14] <The_Vulture> CyphenInputStream, CypherOutputStream
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[15:46:26] <The_Vulture> Because they use a Cypher to process the stream
[15:46:28] <StarScream> hello
[15:48:15] <StarScream> I was wondering if someone could recommend the quickest (in terms of coding time) library for getting an images resolution(dpi),height,width and then adjusting these values ?
[15:49:44] <StarScream> i.e user uploads a file which is 600x480 @300 dpi. convert image to 72dpi
[15:53:52] <The_Vulture> javax.imageio I think.. it's all in there somewhere
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[16:02:50] <Storkme> what the hell
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[16:29:23] <cheeser> javabot: forget ~tell mohadib he
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[16:29:42] <cheeser> jwormy: watch what you're putting into javabot
[16:29:45] <terence_> is there a std algorithmus which walks up from the leaves of a tree and collects info from the childs in parent direction, but does not use and edge more than one time?
[16:29:49] <javabot> I forgot about ~tell mohadib he, cheeser.
[16:29:53] <cheeser> javabot: ping
[16:29:54] <javabot> You rang, m'lord?
[16:33:40] <ricky_clarkson> *yawn*
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[16:34:04] * ricky_clarkson is on a 28.8k dialup.
[16:34:06] <Blues-Man> hi all
[16:34:41] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: sounds fun....
[16:34:55] <ricky_clarkson> Just checking emails and stuff on gf's computer.\
[16:35:03] <Blues-Man> if I want to know if my web serlet server support a certain MIME/type like text/wml , is there a command that I can do? Maybe jsp command?
[16:35:10] <Blues-Man> *servlet
[16:35:33] <ernimril> Blues-Man: define supports here...
[16:35:54] <Blues-Man> ?
[16:36:14] <ernimril> Blues-Man: can send out? can receive? support in some other way?
[16:36:52] <Blues-Man> cause the wml page don't show me the out.println("Sent"); like in a html browser with a blank page with "Sent"
[16:36:59] <Siph0n_> spying on your gf ricky_clarkson? thats cold ;)
[16:37:04] <Blues-Man> it tells me text/wml not supported
[16:37:13] <Blues-Man> or text/html not supported
[16:37:25] <ernimril> Blues-Man: you are not making sense
[16:37:31] <Blues-Man> but the browser tells this
[16:38:37] <Blues-Man> ernimril I'm suing myjavaserver services, before ask them if their server supports has this line :File Extension = .wml MIME Type = text/vnd.wap.wml I would know if I can know if it has it
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[16:38:55] <Blues-Man> cause I don't if it is a browser wap problem or their problem
[16:38:59] <Blues-Man> *using
[16:39:48] <The_Ball> can anybody give me a hint about make this BufferedImage transparent? line 58 > http://rafb.net/paste/results/hStQJO46.html
[16:40:34] <The_Ball> when it's drawn on line 66 the previous picture disepears
[16:41:10] <ernimril> Blues-Man: I can not understand you, so I can not help you.
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[16:42:51] <ernimril> The_Ball: your image is full size and filled with black, what result do you expect?
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[16:44:28] <The_Ball> ernimril, i thought the alpha channel is zero, so it should be transparent?
[16:44:51] <The_Ball> and it does not show up as black, just "nothing"
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[16:48:10] <Blues-Man> ernimril http://www.jguru.com/faq/view.jsp?EID=35988
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[16:50:12] <Blues-Man> maybe the server doesn't support that myme/type
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[16:53:32] <ricky_clarkson> Blues-Man: If you display a fully transparent image, then you see nothing, surely.
[16:53:52] <csaba> I have a problem with some buttons not being displayed
[16:54:02] <csaba> I have a jpanel which is in absolute layout
[16:54:20] <csaba> and when some button is clicked, the whole dialog is expanded in length and the buttons are moved to the bottom
[16:54:29] <Blues-Man> ricky_clarkson maybe is The_Ball the one who needs that info :)
[16:54:35] <csaba> however, they won't get displayed until I try to resize the dialog
[16:54:51] <csaba> I tried like dialog.repaint() and panel.revalidate() but this didn't do a thing
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[16:55:04] <csaba> so anyone knows what might the problem be?
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[16:59:39] <spyromus> hi
[16:59:40] <csaba> so nobody knows?
[16:59:58] <spyromus> csaba, what was the question?
[16:59:59] <The_Ball> ricky_clarkson, yes that makes sense, but if i drawImage() twice on one image will the first "overwrite" pixels with transparent pixels?
[17:00:48] <The_Ball> eh, other way around, will the transparent pixels overwrite the other pixels, what i want to do is layer the images so everything that has been drawn is visible
[17:01:20] <csaba> hi spyromis, I have resized a dialog and moved two buttons to a new coordinate (using absolute layout), and then I did a repaint and revalidate() but the buttons are not displayed
[17:01:28] <csaba> however if then I manually resize the window they appear
[17:01:39] <spyromus> The_Ball, I don't know whether it was suggested, but have you tried AlphaComposite?
[17:02:15] <spyromus> csaba, let me think a second. Maybe some code?
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[17:02:28] <ricky_clarkson> The_Ball: 1. I haven't really bothered with transparency. 2. I don't understand your question.
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[17:02:39] <The_Ball> spyromus, no i haven't im totaly new to images in java and im finding it a bit confusing
[17:03:14] <ricky_clarkson> csaba: When you say absolute layout, do you mean null layout?
[17:03:26] <spyromus> The_Ball, you can set the composite setting right before you are going to paint something to tell Graphics2d context which transparency level to use.
[17:03:40] <Drone> View csaba's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8541
[17:03:45] <spyromus> The_Ball, (right before you do drawImage)
[17:04:00] <csaba> spyromus: look at this http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8541
[17:04:12] <spyromus> csaba, yeah, already there
[17:04:20] <The_Ball> spyromus, ah, great, thanks for that tip
[17:04:26] <csaba> ricky_clarkson: yes, I add a jpanel to the dialog, and the panel has null layout
[17:04:37] <ricky_clarkson> csaba: That's moronic.
[17:04:54] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell csaba about absolutelayout
[17:04:55] <javabot> csaba, Oh, c'mon, use other layouts, they're better, but if you insist: http://lavender.cime.net/~ricky/tmp/AbsoluteLayout.java
[17:05:43] <spyromus> csaba, have you tried "self.repaint()" instead of "self.getRootPane().repaint()"?
[17:05:55] <csaba> spyromus: yes
[17:06:03] <ricky_clarkson> csaba: There is no reason to use null layout.\
[17:06:11] <csaba> I tried self.repaint(), self.getParent().repaint(), panel.revalidate, panel.repaint etc.
[17:07:25] <csaba> ricky_clarkson: i haven't written this code, I got it from someone else, so I can hardly change the whole form now, can I?
[17:07:54] <spyromus> csaba, I'll get back in two minutes
[17:07:57] <ricky_clarkson> csaba: Why?
[17:08:11] <csaba> spyromus: thanks
[17:08:24] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell csaba about wiki RefactorMercilessly
[17:08:24] <javabot> csaba, wiki RefactorMercilessly is http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?RefactorMercilessly
[17:08:34] <csaba> rocky_clarkson: the form is made of 6700 lines
[17:08:49] <ricky_clarkson> csaba: Sounds like you should throw it in the bin.
[17:09:02] <csaba> ricky_clarkson: sure
[17:09:20] <ricky_clarkson> Probably lots of inner classes.
[17:09:37] <ricky_clarkson> Written by somebody who'd really rather be writing Perlm, or C.
[17:09:42] <ricky_clarkson> s/Perlm/Perl/
[17:09:51] <csaba> I don't know, it does something with xml in the end, but it doesn't influence the form's size
[17:10:02] <csaba> it doesn't matter
[17:10:10] <csaba> do you have an idea what should i do?
[17:10:20] <csaba> except throwing the form in the bin?
[17:10:21] <ricky_clarkson> Yes, stop using null layout.
[17:10:26] <csaba> thanks :)
[17:14:00] <spyromus> csaba, interesting fact. On java 1.5.0 it repaints correctly right after the JDialog is resized (I don't call root pane repaint() method).
[17:14:08] <spyromus> csaba, which JRE is on your end?
[17:14:44] <spyromus> csaba, oh it was 1.4.2_04... trying under 1.5.0
[17:14:56] <csaba> ok i got it
[17:14:59] <csaba> validate()
[17:15:02] <csaba> it works now :)
[17:15:12] <csaba> dialog.validate()
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[17:15:27] <spyromus> csaba, under 1.5.0 works either :) Well, was it Dialog (not JDialog)?
[17:15:34] <csaba> jdialog
[17:15:49] <csaba> but this is interesting, i didn't know validate works when revalidate doesn't ;)
[17:15:57] <spyromus> hm, d'you want to check my code?
[17:16:01] <csaba> sure
[17:16:39] <Drone> View spyromus's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8542
[17:16:51] <spyromus> here we go
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[17:17:22] <csaba> ok but where's the resize() or something like that there?
[17:17:35] <spyromus>    TD.this.setSize(429, 402);
[17:17:39] <csaba> you've just set the bounds there
[17:17:44] <csaba> ah ok
[17:17:47] <csaba> i thought revalidate
[17:17:49] <csaba> or repaint
[17:18:16] <spyromus> nope, revalidate fixes the layout and repaint is usually called correctly by swing on its own.
[17:18:27] <spyromus> so, notmally, you don't have to call either of them.
[17:18:49] <csaba> except that in this case i need to
[17:18:50] <csaba> weird
[17:19:00] <csaba> well thanks for your time anyway :)
[17:19:21] <spyromus> in fact, it works without it as you can see from my code. You are welcome :)
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[17:20:21] <spyromus> The_Ball, do you need a sample? I have one at hand.
[17:21:18] <ricky_clarkson> I still think he'd have been better off in the long term not using null layout. ;)
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[17:22:00] <spyromus> ricky_clarkson, sure, but what I think is that he didn't need our suggestions, but a bit of help. :)
[17:22:24] <ricky_clarkson> s/need/want/
[17:23:58] <spyromus> as you wish. :) If it's legacy code, then I would doubt that it's a proper choice to dive in refactoring... I would rather him choose a way of lowest resistance if he needs only to make a small fix.
[17:24:30] <spyromus> We just can't refactor everything in this world. But we still have to consider it as a better way. (IMO) :)
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[17:25:02] <spyromus> ricky_clarkson, btw, which is your preferred layout?
[17:25:21] <ricky_clarkson> I use percentlayout the most atm.
[17:25:37] <ernimril> spyromus: what layout you use depends on what type of dialog you make...
[17:25:43] <spyromus> haven't heard about it. any pointers?
[17:25:54] <ricky_clarkson> ~percentlayout
[17:25:54] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, percentlayout is http://lavender.cime.net/~ricky/percentlayout.html
[17:26:04] <spyromus> ernimril, sure. have you seen jgoodies FormLayout?
[17:26:07] <ricky_clarkson> [I wrote it, btw]
[17:26:31] <ernimril> spyromus: not really...
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[17:26:45] <ricky_clarkson> The version I use now is slightly more flexible than the one online - it now (optionally) respects the components' preferred size.
[17:26:51] <ernimril> spyromus: but then I know and use GridBagLayout without problems..
[17:27:53] <spyromus> ernimril, give it a whirl! You will like it :) Most of us knows GridBagLayout, but when it comes to creating things in no time it can be tricky a bit. However, if you are pro in GBL, you will never experience difficulties with it.
[17:27:57] <nater> whats this about components ignoring preferred size?
[17:28:25] <spyromus> ricky_clarkson: let me taste it. Thanks for pointer!
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[17:29:59] <spyromus> ricky_clarkson: exciting stuff. :)
[17:31:09] <ricky_clarkson> spyromus: I've recently written a very tiny but amazingly flexible layout manager - ExtensibleLAyout.  The constraints do all the work, the manager itslef just delegates to the constraints, so you can mix FlowConstraints with GridConstraints and stuff.
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[17:32:09] <spyromus> a week ago I had to create an layout manager to position photo thumbnails which can be additionally groupped with group separators vertically. The picture is like you have blocks of thumbnails in dynamic grid, separated with divider rows.
[17:33:14] <ricky_clarkson> The normal way wouyld be a BoxLayout with filler components, I think, for that task.\
[17:33:18] <ricky_clarkson> Well, many BoxLAyouts. ;)
[17:33:40] <spyromus> yeah, weird stuff it would be. :)
[17:33:49] <spyromus> a little messy description\. well, it looks like Picasa. :)
[17:34:00] <spyromus> thing is that if you hide the dividers in real-time
[17:34:08] <spyromus> (run time)
[17:34:27] <spyromus> the images should go one after another in the one block.
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[17:34:55] <spyromus> Also, we can't use BoxLayout there because we have to have dynamic layout with number of columns changing with the width of the window. :)
[17:36:10] <spyromus> anyway, I find it exciting to write custom layout managers instead of putting panels into panels, using existing ones to get some desired look.
[17:36:38] <ricky_clarkson> Maybe SpringLayout is more designed for that, duinno.
[17:36:58] <spyromus> ~springlayout
[17:36:59] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'how to use springlayout' might be appropriate:
[17:37:01] <javabot> spyromus, how to use springlayout is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/layout/spring.html
[17:37:14] <potatos> Hi all, I get an error: java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: no swt-gtk-3138 in java.library.path, When I try to run "java -cp ... -Djava.library.path=./swt server.locServer " but I have a libswt-gtk-3138.so in ./swt, any clue ?
[17:37:40] <ricky_clarkson> ~springlayout is <see>how to use springlayout
[17:37:41] <javabot> Okay, ricky_clarkson.
[17:37:58] <gabb> Does JFormattedTextField expand all by itself or is it GridLayouts fault ?
[17:38:29] <ernimril> gabb: GridLayout is most probably not the layou you want to use...
[17:38:38] <ernimril> gabb: it will make all cells equal size...
[17:38:39] <ricky_clarkson> gabb: GridLayout ignores the preferred size of the components you put in it.
[17:38:43] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell gabb about layout
[17:38:44] <javabot> gabb, layout is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/layout/index.html. If the layout managers that come with the jdk dont satisfy you, have a look at FormLayout, TableLayout, PercentLayout or HTMLLayout (ask me about each of those to learn more)
[17:38:54] <gabb> I want/need a couple of rows, all 2 columsn (label/textfield) - what would be more appropriate ?
[17:39:14] <ernimril> gabb: GridBagLayoutt
[17:39:18] <ernimril> s/tt/t/
[17:39:19] <gabb> Oh my god ..
[17:39:23] <ricky_clarkson> gabb: You couild nest JPanels inside your GridLayout cells.
[17:39:36] <gabb> ricky_clarkson, for each row a JPanel then ?
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[17:39:42] <ricky_clarkson> For each cell.
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[17:40:13] <gabb> Hm.. ok will give it a try. Thanks so far.
[17:40:31] <spyromus> gabb, take a look at FormLayout (http://www.jgoodies.com/freeware/forms/)
[17:40:57] <spyromus> gabb, or GridBagLayout will do the job as well
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[17:43:19] <gabb> Damn,.. FormLayout is sweet! Wish I had more time for this app, then I would incorporate it.
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[17:44:12] <spyromus> :) yup
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[17:45:57] <Stork> http://storkme.com/JavaDocs/index.html
[17:46:07] <gabb> ~TableLayout
[17:46:07] <javabot> gabb, TableLayout is a layout manager that provides all the power of GridBagLayout, but is simple and easy to use: http://www.clearthought.info/software/tablelayout/
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[17:55:38] <Trinsic> while using jikes i get: Found 1 system error:*** Semantic Error: You need to modify your classpath, sourcepath, bootclasspath, and/or extdirs setup. Jikes could not find package "java.lang" in:
[17:55:45] <spyromus> have to go. Bye everybody!
[17:55:58] <CBTCWwW> I'm confused...
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[17:56:14] <ernimril> Trinsic: jikes need rt.jar to be on the classpath
[17:56:16] <Trinsic> i already tried to point classpath and bootclasspath to rt.jar, no dice.
[17:56:38] <Terr1> What is the best way to encyrpt password stored in files? I need to encrypt my database password (for mysql) which is stored in a file, I need to be able to decrypt to login as well of cause?
[17:56:59] <Trinsic> CLASSPATH=/home/john/SUNWappserver/jdk/jre/lib/
[17:57:21] <ernimril> Trinsic: that does not put rt.jar on the classpath
[17:57:25] <CBTCWwW> I use <input type="image"> and the image works properly. but if I use <input type="button"> it does nothing
[17:57:36] <Trinsic> no, but I also tried -classpath at the command line.\
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[17:58:15] <Xgc> Trinsic: java.lang is overrated.
[17:58:28] <ernimril> Trinsic: you need to do something like "jikes -classpath /path/to/jre/lib/rt.jar your_program.java
[17:58:30] <ernimril> "
[17:58:47] <Trinsic> wow.
[17:58:49] <Trinsic> that did it.,
[17:58:52] <Trinsic> thanks.
[17:58:54] <ernimril> CBTCWwW: what does that have to do with java?
[17:58:59] <Trinsic> i have to explcit rt.jar.
[17:59:03] <Trinsic> thats funky.
[17:59:10] <Trinsic> thx!
[18:01:58] <ernimril> Terr1: you do not want to do that
[18:02:40] <Stork> the docs for my new api: http://storkme.com/JavaDocs/index.html
[18:02:40] <ernimril> Terr1: if you have to store passwords in file you want to store something like a hash of the password (one way function).
[18:02:56] <ernimril> Terr1: otherwise everyone else will be able to read the password
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[18:05:34] <Clackwell> hallo everyone
[18:05:43] <ernimril> Clackwell: hello
[18:06:57] <Stork> the docs for my new api: http://storkme.com/JavaDocs/index.html
[18:07:12] <Clackwell> ricky_clarkson: belated response: i'd say he had better days as an op.
[18:07:57] <ernimril> Stork: why do you repeat?
[18:08:04] <Stork> sorry
[18:08:10] <Stork> wanted some critism
[18:08:15] <Stork> wont do it again
[18:08:26] <Clackwell> omfg, that api sucks soooo much
[18:08:36] <Stork> lol
[18:08:47] <Terr1> ernimril, yeah problem is if its hashed then you need to provide the password in clear text to be able to verify, however my application consists of more user levels admin, sale... meaning the sale ppl needs to have this password as well.. meaning they can login with that user which have full db access (on that schema) I need db access to be able to verify the users access
[18:09:10] <Clackwell> Stork: why Key? are you trying to design an object oriented api?
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[18:10:11] <Stork> err, what?
[18:10:25] <ernimril> Terr1: either give each user his/her own database user or put one user/password in a config file and make sure that the Operating system only gives read access to the server admin
[18:11:54] <Clackwell> Stork: encryptedDataBytes = Encrypter.encrypt(keyBytes, dataBytes, encryptionLevelInt);
[18:12:13] <Terr1> ernimril, I guess the best way is creating their own user login to db
[18:12:22] <Stork> meh
[18:12:57] <ernimril> Terr1: depends on how many users you have, keeping connection pools is hard if you give everyone their own login
[18:13:10] <Clackwell> Stork: if you make it more complicated than the barely necessary, have good technical or architectural reasons for that.
[18:13:24] <Stork> why/how is it more complicated
[18:13:41] <Terr1> ernimril, is it possible in windows to ensure users cant directly read the file, but making the application able to when ran by user?
[18:14:02] <ernimril> Terr1: how would I know? I do not use windows
[18:14:05] <Clackwell> Stork: i have to read up on and understand Key. but i don't want to. i couldn't care less for a class called Key when i want to encrypt data.
[18:14:22] <Terr1> hehe.. well I know its easy in linux
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[18:14:45] <ricky_clarkson> Terr1: How do you do that in Linux?
[18:15:22] <Storkme> okay clackwell
[18:16:26] <Terr1> ricky, make user able to run the program, but let the program run with special user rights?
[18:16:37] <Clackwell> Storkme: size() vs. getSize(). i think leaving the get away more or less at random sucks.
[18:17:00] <gabb> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No constraint for the component at info.clearthought.layout.TableLayout.addLayoutComponent(Unknown Source)
[18:17:03] <gabb> Anyone? :/
[18:17:05] <Clackwell> if there is a simple naming convention, friggin' use it.
[18:17:26] <Clackwell> gabb: contact author/clearthought.info?
[18:17:33] <Clackwell> obscurethought.info?
[18:17:56] <Storkme> thanks Clackwell, i'll look into that
[18:18:03] *** Storkme is now known as Stork
[18:18:07] <Stork> bye
[18:18:36] <ricky_clarkson> gabb: You're calling add(component) instead of add(component,Constraint) most likely.
[18:19:19] <gabb> ricky_clarkson, the article/tutorial on java.net about TableLayout doesn't mention the need for Constraints, but I'll read further - thanks.
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[18:25:22] * gabb smacks himself
[18:25:32] <gabb> ricky_clarkson, thanks - I missed something obvious it seems :)
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[18:29:03] <ricky_clarkson> gabb: My crystal ball is ok today.
[18:29:03] * ricky_clarkson -> bath
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[18:40:21] <Blues-Man> anyone from states using verizon wireless?
[18:41:48] <Drone> View ratm83's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8543
[18:42:48] <ratm83> i will be creating a car hire system, can someone look at my pseudocode and just analyse it and tell me if theres anything wrong with it? thanks. http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8543
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[18:45:29] <Clackwell> ratm83: how much?
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[18:46:12] <ratm83> what do u mean?
[18:46:39] <ernimril> ~tell ratm83 about aolbonics
[18:46:39] <javabot> ratm83, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
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[18:48:07] <StarScream> in this api, http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/jai/forDevelopers/jai-apidocs/index.html it says FileSeekableStream(File file)
[18:48:08] <StarScream>            Constructs a FileSeekableStream from a File.
[18:48:20] <StarScream> does that file have to exist on the HD
[18:48:30] <StarScream> or can it just be a File in memory ?
[18:48:49] <StarScream> or can it be a tempory file even
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[18:50:55] 
[18:51:16] <ernimril> Logi: que?
[18:51:48] <Logi> eh, sorry, wrong window...
[18:52:02] <Logi> I was wondering if the liquer store in the centre of Reykjavik would be open right now :)
[18:52:23] <Logi> and it's not..
[18:52:31] <ernimril> Logi: ah, good to know... :-)
[18:52:57] <Logi> I only have one bottle of wine and it's been open for a couple of weeks, albeit in the fridge
[18:53:24] <ernimril> Logi:in iceland now?
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[18:54:28] <Logi> ernimril: yeah, until thursday
[18:54:43] <Logi> ernimril: then Finnland for a couple of days of meetings and back to Italy for a couple of weeks of coding
[18:54:55] <Logi> ernimril: then back to Iceland for a couple of days of meetings and perhaps a week of coding
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[18:55:09] <ernimril> Logi: lots of traveling it seems...
[18:55:13] <Logi> ernimril: then to Amsterdam to meet the girlfriend who will then have finished her Exam Of Doom
[18:55:16] * keyhack looks for pr3d4t0r
[18:55:20] <Logi> ernimril: yes... I'm sick of it
[18:55:20] * keyhack hugs pr3d4t0r :-)
[18:55:37] <ernimril> Logi: what university have courses in Doom? :-)
[18:55:40] * pr3d4t0r eyes keyhack
[18:55:43] <jwormy> mohadib, ping
[18:55:45] <pr3d4t0r> ~bomb keyhack
[18:55:46] * javabot drops a humongous exploding turd on keyhack
[18:56:12] <Logi> ernimril: Italian legal universities
[18:56:26] <Logi> ernimril: that's pretty obvious
[18:56:37] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: Any university teaching Java a its main language for computer science courses.
[18:57:00] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: lol, everything is working so well, I finally got it all under control. Thanks for your patience :-)
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[19:01:11] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Any time.
[19:03:31] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: I have a slight question about a design, if you don't mind. (It's a simple concept)
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[19:04:14] <kinabalu> torrents rock.  no more fucking TV for me
[19:04:22] <jwormy> hahaha
[19:04:38] <gabb> lol kinabalu
[19:05:46] <kinabalu> now if only i could find all the torrents in one damn place
[19:05:57] <gabb> torrentspy.com
[19:06:15] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: Aaarr!
[19:06:20] <codejunky> torrent.to
[19:06:37] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: I bought the whole first season of "Desperate Housewives" off iTunes.  I'm having a blast.
[19:06:38] <gabb> thepiratebay.org
[19:07:24] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: So... wanna talk about green lists?
[19:09:07] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: dude!
[19:09:08] <kinabalu> hehe
[19:09:21] <kinabalu> you're all incorrigible (sp?)
[19:09:37] <pr3d4t0r> Dude!
[19:09:50] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: So, let's fix that green list and be happy.
[19:10:04] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: You didn't have time to send me those logs, right?
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[19:10:20] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: the only issue is .. that its not using the /etc/passwd ... one of the users is getting in the lgocop.conf file
[19:10:35] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: I don't need the whole log; just the matching entry of when a valid guy tried to log in and what the LogCop did.
[19:11:08] <Cow_woC> I don't know what it is about BitTorrent but all their clients always kills my windows machine's sockets (everything else lags and times out) while eMule never does that
[19:11:12] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: Ah!  So you have a valid user, say, ralph, who is also in the logcop.conf file -- right?
[19:11:20] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: yes.
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[19:11:24] <Cow_woC> and it doesn't seem to matter what my BT settings are either. Both Azureus and BitComet act the same
[19:11:31] <kinabalu> Cow_woC: get a mac
[19:11:49] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: And you don't want to edit logcop.conf manually to remove him.  Thus, when he shows up, if he screws up the password, he gets banned... correct?
[19:11:56] <Cow_woC> I would, if I could swap out the parts myself and buy parts from any clone marker
[19:11:59] <Cow_woC> market -> maker
[19:12:11] <Cow_woC> I don't believe in buying pre-packaged computers from anyone, PC or Mac
[19:12:23] <cheeser> because you're a nutter.
[19:12:27] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: yes.  i have to end up removing it after the fact .. when it should read it from /etc/passwd right?
[19:12:30] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: I put after market memory and a new HD on my PowerBook a couple of weeks ago.  Nothing stops you from doing that on a Mac.
[19:12:45] <kinabalu> Cow_woC: umm .. huh .. ok .. have your frankenstein computer then
[19:12:46] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: "Right".  I think this belongs in the scrubber.
[19:12:53] <Cow_woC> kinabalu: my computer runs fine :)
[19:12:59] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Ok, so the web service will basically be an API thats accessible by clients and other API servers. In the design model, there is a parent that may have 1-n child nodes. If a request comes in for say, getErrors(), I had in mind that the parent server checks locally (against a Db), then becomes an API client, and calls getAlarms() on the remote children, and then composes a final message in the format that would have been expect
[19:13:08] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: No it doesn't.  It doesn't run BitTorrent clients well.
[19:13:34] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: What do you think about removing those guys in the lcscrubber?
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[19:14:12] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: That way you 1. add new invalid names to logcop.conf, remove duplicates and sort with lcscrub.
[19:14:23] <pr3d4t0r> Er... 2. remove...
[19:14:33] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: wrong person ;-)
[19:14:59] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Or... are you talking to me? lol
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[19:15:35] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: I think that sounds fine.
[19:15:54] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Just beware of synchronicity issues.
[19:16:07] <pr3d4t0r> Hrm... that doesn't look like a word.
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[19:16:14] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Ok, now in terms of composing Response objects, you would then say you have minOccurs="1" and maxOccurs="unbounded" of say, of type Alarm, and then in the Alarm type you specify the server name?
[19:16:16] <pr3d4t0r> synchronization
[19:16:27] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: The reason being, its possible two different servers have the same unique alarm ID in their local systems
[19:16:49] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: So the data being return by the parent node (the cumulation of the sub-nodes), there would need to be... an "easy" way to stream that back to the client with little overhead
[19:16:52] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: I'd define a server name object in the XSD.
[19:16:59] <keyhack> I do have one :-)
[19:17:28] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: That's all you should need.
[19:17:31] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: The API is slow as it is (in terms of calculating results, etc), so I'd like to keep overhead and latency in mind as I design how the network is going to interoperate
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[19:17:52] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Are these remote systems Java?
[19:17:54] <keyhack> So, GetAlarmsResponse would be composed of 1:1 Server, and 0:n Alarm?
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[19:18:14] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: No, these are currently complex PHP/Perl/C/RPC/DB calls
[19:18:20] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Ah.
[19:18:23] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: That the company I work for needs to gather into a solid API
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[19:18:28] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Yeah, then you're right.
[19:18:36] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: My rates are cheap.
[19:18:38] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Because right now, we're all over the place
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[19:21:40] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: I'm just trying to also think from the client/programmers stand point, what would make it easy for them to parse a single result set (direct from the child node), or hitting the parent node, and getting a cumulation of data. Whether it be a Response object, that has 1 Server object and 0:n Alarm objects, or if there is another better approach
[19:22:03] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Are the clients light workstations, or other servers?
[19:22:18] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: This shit you're describing sounds more and more like REST instead of SOAP.
[19:23:09] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: The main clients are going to be webapps (for now), or possible widgets running on desktops
[19:23:28] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Webapps that reside on the same webserver as the API
[19:25:15] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: OKi.
[19:25:24] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: :(
[19:25:27] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: I feel no luv.
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[19:26:13] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: So I was thinking of a way where the parent node can get all the responses from it's children and stream it out as it comes, or atleast be able to toss it back, without having to truly understand it
[19:27:45] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: You can't with SOAP.
[19:27:59] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: You could write a GIGO filter and use that.
[19:28:13] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: But from there, the client, who received results from multiple sets of Server, would then know, ah, I want more details on this Alarm, and it came from Server B, so it could send a getAlarmDetail('ID3', B);, and the parent would know just to talk to server B, (or, if the client has access to the network, be able to talk directly)
[19:29:08] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: whats up?
[19:29:54] <keyhack> So, basically, we have all this functionality wrapped up in PHP/C/Perl, etc, that runs on these webservers on all these different boxes, and we're shifting towards a tiered network, where parents represent regions of the boxes, and theres no way to do it now, short of re-writing everything to also dip directly into sub-children boxes, etc.
[19:30:31] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: So what do you think of that solution?  lcscrub instead of LogCop itself?
[19:31:23] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: oh .. using the scrubber?  and what .. run it every 5 minutes or something?
[19:31:43] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: Hrm... how fast are you adding users to your boxen?
[19:33:08] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: I'd peg this at once every 24 hours or so, when you run the other process for adding invalid user IDs to logcop.conf
[19:33:49] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: So any final thoughts on having the parent node be able to request/receive/submit results?
[19:34:22] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: I want the 100% _same_ UI be able to talk to a leaf node, and talk to the parent node, and both function, without having to change code (because the API will always return the same form of results)
[19:34:41] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Not many more thoughts.
[19:34:56] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: If you use SOAP/Axis, you'll have to live with overhead.
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[19:35:30] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: It doesn't seem to be a bad overhead though, when I ran 8 RPC calls to a server on the local network, it took < 1 second for everything to complete
[19:35:38] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: If you want parts or whole sections of that XML data to pass between systems uninterpreted, pass it through a filter.
[19:36:01] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: I run a few thousand of those per day without issues.
[19:36:10] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Well, Axis will only interpret the SOAP message, and unwrap it, and in the end the API would re-wrap it in a much larger message
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[19:39:29] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Do you know how servlet filters work?
[19:39:44] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: So, for example, say a parent has 5 children, and each child returns 500 alarm objects, so thats 2500 alarm objects, 5 server objects, and the overhead of wrapping/unwrapping, you still think that is a tiny latency time?
[19:39:47] * pr3d4t0r doesn't have to ask that question.
[19:39:47] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: No I do not
[19:39:53] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Go learn about filters.
[19:40:05] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: You may find interesting, marvelous things.
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[19:41:13] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Will do
[19:42:00] * pr3d4t0r goes to hack some awk code.
[19:44:00] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: Almost done.
[19:45:42] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Intriguing.
[19:48:06] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Where would the Filter fit in the scenario?
[19:49:57] <keyhack> GZIPOutputStream would seem kinda useful, considering XML could be highly compressed (but that would add more overhead)
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[19:51:05] <ernimril> keyhack: cpu is often faster than network access...
[19:51:23] <ernimril> keyhack: so gzipping html/xml that goes over the network is almost always worth it
[19:51:45] <keyhack> ernimril: But I don't see that being true on a LAN
[19:52:28] <ernimril> keyhack: it can be, depends on what data you send, how often you send it....
[19:53:12] <keyhack> ernimril: Anyways, the GZIPOutputStream was just something I had noticed, I'm still trying to determine where the Filter would fit best in my network model
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[19:55:22] <ernimril> keyhack: yes and note that gzipping is bad if you send stream data and want the reciever to show status (it will get one full block at a time)...
[19:57:08] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: That's true even on a LAN.
[19:57:22] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Network speeds are measured in milliseconds.
[19:57:35] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Bus speeds are measures in nanoseconds.
[19:57:45] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: That's a couple of orders of magnitude we're arguing about here.
[19:58:12] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: So your saying compressing, then sending a smaller form is pretty much always going to be sending it in its normal form?
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[20:01:38] <keyhack> ernimril: And I agree, but I do not think streaming would work in this network SOAP model, so GZIP would not ruin it in that aspect
[20:01:55] <keyhack> ernimril: I'm still trying to figure out where pr3d4t0r was going with recommending Servlet Filters
[20:02:26] <ernimril> keyhack: yes, I do not what model you are working with, only saying that gzip can be really bad in some situations
[20:03:19] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: while (getline aKeyword < PASSWD_FILE > 0) { /* do stuff */ } -- is that going to give you a headache? ;)
[20:03:22] <keyhack> ernimril: How easy would it be for the connecting API to know whether or not the content was GZIP'd? The Filter would GZIP (if told to do so), and probably modify the response HTTP header to indicate that
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[20:04:09] <ernimril> keyhack: http request has "Accept-Encoding: gzip", http response have a "Content-Encoding: gzip" or a "Transfer-Encoding: gzip"
[20:04:23] <keyhack> ernimril: Right
[20:04:28] <ernimril> keyhack: rfc2616
[20:05:00] <keyhack> Look how easy that would be
[20:05:08] <keyhack> and if GZIP became an issue, just turn it off at the API level
[20:05:24] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Watch out for the Vary: header.
[20:05:31] <ernimril> keyhack: I have gzip on (if possible) for every web stuff I do...
[20:05:40] <ernimril> keyhack: had it that way since 1997
[20:05:53] <weswh-> does PocketPC have pretty good support for java these days? I know a few years ago there were some alternative OS's (built in java?) that would operate the devices without Windows CE?
[20:06:13] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: Don't serve MP3 streams off .m3u play lists if Vary: is on.
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[20:06:32] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: I'm more interested in why you had recommended to me that I research into Filter in terms of the parent dealing with outputting a combination of the sub-requests
[20:06:33] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: Not if you have users who might connect to it with IE for WMP playback.
[20:06:38] <ernimril> pr3d4t0r: Vary have to be respected, yes...
[20:07:04] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: I had to stay five hours after work for dealing with that yesterday.
[20:07:31] <ernimril> pr3d4t0r: Ill try to remember that if I ever have to serve mp3 (or audio data)
[20:07:45] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: Or any media.
[20:07:51] <Mikey> Hello, Has anyone used LuaJava?
[20:09:10] <ernimril> pr3d4t0r: the tests for my proxy do some Vary stuff, I respect Vary as much as the spec say I have...
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[20:10:16] <keyhack> ernimril: Vary seems to be about caching, how does that effect the mp3 media form?
[20:10:18] <CyberMad> Icon pic = new ImageIcon("test.gif"); JButton but01 = new JButton(pic); How to make the pic fullfill the button area?
[20:10:51] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: It's only the combination of IE + WMP that bites.
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[20:11:22] <ernimril> pr3d4t0r: well http/1.1 and IE have never been a very good combination...
[20:11:24] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: IE + iTunes or QuickTime, for example, works fine when you hand the m3u list to it and it starts playback of the MP3 or MPEG media.
[20:11:35] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: Yeah, I learned that yesterday.
[20:11:54] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: I'm actually rather pissed at one of my guys and the QA people who were supposed to test that.
[20:11:55] <ernimril> pr3d4t0r: and proxy connections work much worse than the normal connections in IE
[20:12:12] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: Yup.
[20:12:15] <ernimril> pr3d4t0r: so replace him with a program ;-)
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[20:12:37] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: No, he's a good guy but 1. this was a somewhat rushed project; 2. we're humans.
[20:13:11] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: It's my team so I went through the emergency deployment myself, as the team manager, to own up to the fact that we fucked up slightly.
[20:13:20] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: The guys who really dropped the ball were the QA guys.
[20:13:54] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: Here's the difference:  my guys have all kinds of shit installed in their systems because of the stuff we work on.  Every media player, every browser, the latest of the latest.
[20:14:39] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: So I can see that, from a testing perspective, mr. A tested that by clicking on a link, IE launched a player (iTunes or WinAmp, or whatever), etc. it finished the unit tests fine.
[20:15:13] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: The QA guys, on the other hand, are chartered with testing that this shit works 100% with the platforms that we support explicitly.  And the main platform for that is IE + WMP.
[20:15:19] <ernimril> pr3d4t0r: that can be a problem. Give him vmware and install lots of different machines?
[20:15:31] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: The bug was so fucking obvious that it's clear to me that QA dropped the ball.
[20:15:58] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: For web stuff, we shouldn't have a problem.  They have Windows machines for testing exactly that.
[20:16:02] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: Are you in the US?
[20:16:19] <ernimril> pr3d4t0r: no, Sweden (a suburb to Stockholm)
[20:16:27] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: Ah...
[20:16:32] <ernimril> s/(a/(in a/
[20:16:37] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: /msg OKi?
[20:16:41] <ernimril> sure
[20:18:33] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: So what did you have in mind about servlet Filter when you mentioned it to me earlier?
[20:23:50] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Filters are something that you should  know about.
[20:23:57] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: And should've read in my presentation too ;)
[20:24:37] <pr3d4t0r> Anyway, that's why I feel upset about the QA guys.  It's *one* link and they didn't test it :)
[20:24:56] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: hehe, but I don't see how it helps the parent with overhead from combining it's childrens data. Even then, IMO, having to uncompress each childs response, and then recompress it in the end, and sent it to the client who has to uncompress, seems like a lot of overhead that would just add more latency
[20:26:57] <ernimril> keyhack: you have overhead of compressing or overhead of sending lots of packets...
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[20:27:29] <ernimril> keyhack: and gzip nowdays is _very_ fast
[20:28:43] <keyhack> ernimril: So the parent receives a request for getAlarms(), which in turns checks locally for alarms (the result a leaf-node would have returned), and then knows it has 3 children. It creates the Stub to connect to each of the leaf nodes, and calls getAlarms(), which they in return Alarm[], then, the parent would have to merge it's data, with the 3 Alarm[] sets, and then return Alarm[] back to the calling client
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[20:32:06] <keyhack> Merging the Alarm[] arrays would seem to add a lot of unnecessary overhead, so getAlarms() probably should return 1:n AlarmSet, which would have 1:1 Server and 0:n Alarm, then the Parent node has nothing to worry about other than returning 1 or more AlarmSet's (and each AlarmSet would specify what Server they came from, and the Alarm[] data itself)
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[20:35:09] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: There has to be a better way, since nearly every API call could return data from one or more servers, so to create a xSet for every x seems a little over engineered
[20:41:50] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Did I lose ya?
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[20:47:10] <IseeIsee> I've a JFrame and I've registered a KeyListener to that JFrame, I'm not receiving any error(neither runtime nor compile) but my keyPressed function is'nt be called, what can be the reason
[20:47:23] <potatos> Hi all, I get an error: java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: no swt-gtk-3138 in java.library.path, When I try to run "java -cp ... -Djava.library.path=./swt server.locServer " but I have a libswt-gtk-3138.so in ./swt, any clue ? (If i rename the file without the lib at beginning dont work either, same error msg)
[20:47:36] <IseeIsee> my KeyListener is an inner class
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[20:48:34] <bobgray> is it possible to return a double[][] from a function?
[20:48:36] <bobgray> *method
[20:48:53] <delvinj> tias
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[20:50:42] <ernimril> IseeIsee: register the keylistener to the content of the frame instead... What are you trying to do?
[20:50:44] <keyhack> bobgray: Have you tried?
[20:50:51] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Come back to me! :-)
[20:51:25] <bobgray> keyhack: nope, only doing uml now
[20:51:59] <keyhack> bobgray: So take a few mins and try, wouldn't take much to see if you can or can not
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[20:52:15] <IseeIsee> I'm trying to move repaint the JPanel on my JFrame when a key is pressed
[20:52:32] <IseeIsee> I'm trying to repaint the JPanel on my JFrame when a key is pressed
[20:52:34] <ernimril> IseeIsee: ??
[20:53:05] <IseeIsee> there is a JPanel on my JFrame, when key is pressed I do some functionality and that JPanel is repainted
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[20:53:30] <IseeIsee> but in the first place the function keyPressed(KeyEvent e) is not being caleld
[20:53:37] <IseeIsee> whichever key I pressed
[20:54:15] <ernimril> IseeIsee: are there more components than the jpanel in the frame?
[20:54:26] <IseeIsee> there are
[20:55:33] <IseeIsee> ok I removed the other component other then the JPanel and its responding now
[20:55:44] <IseeIsee> but I want it to work with the other component displayed
[20:55:49] <IseeIsee> what should I do ?
[20:55:58] <ernimril> IseeIsee: can be a focus problem
[20:57:03] <IseeIsee> ahan
[20:57:09] <IseeIsee> then how do I resolve it ? :)
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[20:59:40] <linforcer> hey so this guy wrote code , and he says it compiles fine in windows, but that the reason it won't compile in linux is that it tries- to create files with $ in them. he says it's sun's problem to fix, not his
[20:59:49] <linforcer> just sort of wanted to ask about that
[21:00:15] <ernimril> linforcer: compiles? what error? (pastebin is probably a good idea)
[21:00:27] <linforcer> I'll just get the relevant line
[21:00:30] <linforcer> com/ranga/janimationshop/JAnimationShop.java:43: error while writing <anonymous com.ranga.janimationshop.JAnimationShop$1>:
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[21:01:19] <ernimril> linforcer: linux can handle file names with "$" in them just fine...
[21:01:35] <linforcer> I see
[21:01:35] <CyberMad> how to make picture in JButton stretch ?
[21:01:44] <ernimril> linforcer: like I have this file in an old tree "ThreadPool$Usage.class"
[21:01:52] <linforcer> ernimril: I see
[21:02:12] <ernimril> linforcer: so pastebin still stands...
[21:03:06] <Clackwell> linforcer: the problem is that the people coming here rarely know what "relevant" is.
[21:03:21] <linforcer> ernimril: well there is something weird with EVERYTHING this guy makes. like his text editor maybe does something weird
[21:03:25] <Clackwell> so better copy & paste and provide all information.
[21:03:28] <IseeIsee> ernimril: so how do I resolve the focus issue ?
[21:03:29] <linforcer> ernimril: but ok
[21:03:52] <ernimril> IseeIsee: I do not know if it is a focus problem, I only said that it could be that...
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[21:05:43] <linforcer> http://pastebin.com/402173
[21:06:38] <IseeIsee> but I removed the other components on the JFrame and its working now, it does not works with 2 Components on the JFrame, so what do you think the reason can be if not a focus problem
[21:06:40] <ernimril> linforcer: does "../bin/" exist?
[21:06:43] <IseeIsee> there has to be some solution
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[21:07:41] <crivens> Hi. Is there an easy way to append one FloatBuffer to another?
[21:09:42] <ernimril> crivens: yes, if you read the javadoc you would see it...
[21:09:45] <linforcer> ernimril: ernimril  O_o there isn't... there is in the bin package but not in the src package.. this guy did something weird when he made the packages I think
[21:10:06] <linforcer> ernimril: wait ../bin   not ./bin
[21:10:11] <linforcer> ernimril: let me see
[21:10:25] <linforcer> ernimril: yeah it excists
[21:10:41] <ernimril> linforcer: how do you compile? make? ant? javac by hand?
[21:10:53] <linforcer> ernimril: wait. it wasn't after all
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[21:11:36] <Jacky^> hello
[21:11:48] <crivens> I dont see anything that appends and increases the length of the existing buffer
[21:11:57] <linforcer> ernimril: the latter. though actually he made a 5-lined shell script for it but SOMEHOW that wants to cd to "" instead to "bin" and thigs like that (see:  http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/4585/screenshot20lz.png)
[21:12:17] <linforcer> ernimril: except in the source pkg it was cd src
[21:12:20] <ernimril> crivens: put(FloatBuffer) is not good enough?
[21:12:37] <Jacky^> hot can i specify more .jar using -classpath with javac ?
[21:12:42] <Jacky^> how
[21:12:51] <cheeser> javabot: be api barbie
[21:12:52] <javabot> Javadoc is *hard*!
[21:13:00] <ernimril> Jacky^: you can not
[21:13:41] <Jacky^> oh ..
[21:13:44] <crivens> No - that method expects the new array to fit into the existing one
[21:14:03] <ernimril> crivens: yes, so then make sure that it does.
[21:14:13] <linforcer> ernimril: aaaaand creating the dir worked... >_> how do you forget stuuf like that in a package
[21:14:28] <crivens> THat's my point - I need the array to expand
[21:15:03] <Jacky^> i'm tryng to compile this example: http://hacks.oreilly.com/pub/h/2728
[21:15:05] <ernimril> crivens: so create a new FloatBuffer that can contain both of your buffers and put both of them in the new...
[21:15:13] <crivens> Just thought of that
[21:15:17] <Jacky^> but i'm missing something ..
[21:16:15] <Jacky^> i tried this: javac -classpath googleapi.jar:. -classpath  pircbot.jar:. GoogleBot.java
[21:16:34] <Jacky^> and i get a lot of errors
[21:16:42] <ernimril> Jacky^: ah, you want to have one classpath, not running a jar?
[21:17:08] <Jacky^> im tryng to copile that java file
[21:17:15] <Jacky^> it seem required 2 jar
[21:17:19] <ernimril> Jacky^: "javac -classpath file1.jar:file2.jar:file3.jar ..." use ; instead of : if you are on windows
[21:17:34] <Jacky^> i'm using Linux
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[21:20:00] <Jacky^> ernimril: it work, thanks a lot :)
[21:20:15] <IseeIsee> ok there is a 2 Player Game and each player has been alloted the keys, aswd and up,right,left,down.. Now each of the player is moving a shape on the screen e.g. a Tank, but the problem is that when one of the player holding a key, the other player cannot move, in other words one player stops then the other player has to take the turn, what can be the solution to make them work concurrenlty
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[21:25:53] <IseeIsee> I'm expecting a nice reply :)
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[21:29:34] <IseeIsee> if I've 2 components on my JFrame and I want one of the component to always remain in focus, what should I do ?
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[21:39:20] <linforcer> hey is there some sort of.. I don't know. debugger, see something weird happens, and the coder doesn't understand why, and I'm not getting any terminal output
[21:39:48] <cheeser> there are many debuggers out there.
[21:40:00] <linforcer> cheeser: a good one?
[21:40:21] <jwormy> softice!
[21:41:07] <cheeser> jwormy: watch what you're putting into javabot.  i don't look kindly on that sort of thing.
[21:41:12] <cheeser> linforcer: i use IDEA's.
[21:41:30] <jwormy> cheeser, what are you talking about?
[21:42:05] <cheeser> jwormy   | ~tell mohadib he         | a nigger
[21:42:17] <cheeser> the factoid you added last night.
[21:42:19] <jwormy> cheeser, ohhh...
[21:42:26] <cheeser> jwormy: so.  don't do that again.
[21:42:32] <jwormy> i didn't know that would add a factoid i thought that was how mohadib made him tell me something
[21:45:39] <Kallistor> hm, i'm having a weird problem with a CMP field in an EJB
[21:46:37] <Kallistor> an entity bean has a cmp field ( java.sql.Timestamp ) that it needs to keep track of
[21:47:04] <Kallistor> all goes well, however the timestamp value written to the database seems to be of a date type
[21:47:15] <Kallistor> day-month-year
[21:47:35] <Kallistor> stripped of the hour:minute:second information
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[21:47:51] <ernimril> Kallistor: what db? what type in db?
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[21:48:22] <Kallistor> i'm currently using jboss's built in db, hypersonic sql
[21:48:34] <Kallistor> it's a timestamp field in the database
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[21:51:00] <Kallistor> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8544
[21:55:45] <Kallistor> do you think hypersonic sql can't handle the timestamp value being supplied ?
[21:56:58] <IseeIsee> I repeat my above question
[21:57:03] <IseeIsee> ok there is a 2 Player Game and each player has been alloted the keys, aswd and up,right,left,down.. Now each of the player is moving a shape on the screen e.g. a Tank, but the problem is that when one of the player holding a key, the other player cannot move, in other words one player stops then the other player has to take the turn, what can be the solution to make them work concurrenlty
[21:57:08] <IseeIsee> please help me out people
[21:57:40] <cybereal> IseeIsee: how are you trapping the keypresses?
[21:58:38] <gabb> IseeIsee, you need to be able to handle the actions asynchronously
[21:58:55] <gabb> ~Threading
[21:58:55] <javabot> gabb, Threading is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/essential/threads
[21:59:00] <gabb> Read that.
[21:59:00] <cybereal> IseeIsee: I'm guessing that you are expecting events for both keypresses
[21:59:09] <IseeIsee> yes would threads handle them asynchronously ?
[21:59:18] <cybereal> you normally dont' use threads for input on a game
[21:59:39] <cybereal> IseeIsee: you'll only get one event at a time, and if that key is held, you'll get nothing until it's let go
[21:59:51] <cybereal> IseeIsee: but you can check the state of any key at any time
[22:00:08] <cybereal> IseeIsee: what you should do is respond to the keypress event by checking for both keys by their state
[22:00:13] <cybereal> instead of by what the event says
[22:00:25] <IseeIsee> this is what I'm doing
[22:00:31] <gabb> cybereal, but if a player keeps on key pressed and expects the executed command to be repeated until he lets go of the key ?
[22:01:42] <cybereal> gabb: Are you going to form a complete idea?
[22:02:10] <IseeIsee> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8545
[22:02:24] <IseeIsee> ok just see this for a moment
[22:02:29] <gabb> cybereal, no sorry, got sidetracked here by a query
[22:02:40] <IseeIsee> this is the function of the class which is listening to my key events
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[22:05:01] <IseeIsee> whats the difference between KeyTyped & KeyPressed ?
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[22:07:23] <IseeIsee> please see my code above
[22:07:41] <cybereal> I wonder if you can even do proper keyboard handling with awt
[22:07:41] <IseeIsee> and commenton how would i acheive asynchronous handling of key ?
[22:08:15] <IseeIsee> well I'm just learning, its my first time I'm working on a KeyListener
[22:08:17] <cybereal> IseeIsee: normally in a game you loop, you don't wait for a windowing system to give you events, then you check the states of all the inputs that matter to your game and do as appropriate for each one
[22:08:41] <cybereal> so trying to make a game with awt produces some limitations it would seem
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[22:09:09] <cybereal> Does it make any difference if you call .consume() on the event after you process it?>
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[22:11:09] <IseeIsee> cyberreal: can you explain a bit more, how can I convert my game to a game loop ?
[22:13:15] <IseeIsee> I mean the game I'm trying to make is a simple static game, its always dependant on whether the player wants to move or not, so putting it in a loop, does'nt seems like to make sense
[22:13:17] <cybereal> I don't know how you replace the default loop in awt with a game loop; also I don't know how you can read the keyboard state from awt.  That's what you'll need to be able to do.
[22:13:36] <cybereal> Game development is different than regular applications
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[22:15:47] <IseeIsee> ic
[22:15:56] <IseeIsee> so where do I stand now
[22:16:09] <IseeIsee> I've 2 problems, asynchronous exection & game loop
[22:16:10] <cybereal> you have to try to figure out in that event how to tell if two different keys are pressed
[22:16:15] <IseeIsee> how to proceed
[22:16:18] <cybereal> if you can do that then you can skip the game loop
[22:16:25] <cybereal> if you hold one key, does the event repeat?
[22:16:32] <cybereal> or does the tank only move once then wait until you let go?
[22:16:45] <IseeIsee> the tank moves continuously if I hold the key
[22:16:49] <cybereal> ok that's good
[22:17:04] <IseeIsee> so what does this suggest ?
[22:17:07] <cybereal> That the event is being repeated
[22:17:29] <cybereal> The trick then is to find out how to read from the keyboard which keys are depressed at any given time
[22:17:36] <cybereal> Which I don't know how to do properly with AWT
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[22:18:34] <IseeIsee> ok tell me the other way you know
[22:18:37] <|Agent> If I mark a class as "final", does that mean that inner classes (or member class, whatever the terminology is) are also final?
[22:19:50] <cybereal> IseeIsee: regardless of which way it's done, a proper game needs to be able to tell if more than one key is pressed at once
[22:19:56] <cybereal> IseeIsee: otherwise how would you diagonally?
[22:20:04] <cybereal> you'd have to have a key specific to that? lame.
[22:20:22] <jwormy> |Agent, TIAS ? :)
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[22:20:31] <cybereal> IseeIsee: It's also feasible that it's not possible through awt to handle simultaneous keypresses
[22:20:41] <|Agent> ~TIAS
[22:20:42] <javabot> Try It And See.  You look silly asking if something will work when you can just try it and see.
[22:20:52] <IseeIsee> ok I agree with you, but if not awt than what else is there ?
[22:20:58] <|Agent> sure, I guess that'll work.
[22:21:08] <jwormy> |Agent, i *don't think* it does...  but i've never tried it..
[22:22:33] <cybereal> IseeIsee: lots of game dev. kits exist; however, with awt I did find an example... you should try it and see if you can do two things at once: http://www.java2s.com/ExampleCode/Game/KeyConfigTest.htm
[22:22:46] <cybereal> IseeIsee: if you can then you have an example of how to do it with awt
[22:23:02] <cybereal> I on the other hand, am going to take a shower and see a movie.  Bye.
[22:24:01] <IseeIsee> :) nice way to end the conversation dude
[22:24:47] <BULLE> anyone here have any idea on how hard it is to write your own awt component ?
[22:25:09] <BULLE> eg, there is this nice native widget, i would like to make available to a java program, preferably by making it into an awt component i guess
[22:25:23] <ernimril> BULLE: what widget?
[22:25:35] <jwormy> BULLE, it totally depends on your widget
[22:25:37] <BULLE> ernimril: actualy, the mplayer video player widget
[22:25:37] <ernimril> BULLE: how many platforms do you want to support?
[22:26:05] <BULLE> ernimril: well, mplayer exists for linux, so that is my main target, if it can be made to work in windows aswell, its even better
[22:26:11] <ernimril> BULLE: mplayer is nice... I like it better  when it has _NO_ gui
[22:26:21] <ernimril> BULLE: do you do jni?
[22:26:30] <BULLE> ernimril: not much, i have looked at it a bit
[22:26:33] <ernimril> BULLE: it is quite easily if you know how to compile .so
[22:26:44] <jwormy> BULLE, what kind of videos do you want to support?
[22:26:44] <BULLE> ernimril: and played around a bit with some basic examples
[22:27:03] <BULLE> jwormy: oh, the normal formats, mpeg2, xvid, divx mainly
[22:28:23] <jwormy> BULLE, mohadib and I created a cool dvd player that is multiplatform you could eh basically hack that code and make it into a component... or you could attach the stop/play/pause events to the component ...
[22:28:57] <BULLE> jwormy: cool, its just something i play around with a tiny bit, nothing that will ever become something sane i guess
[22:29:24] <BULLE> jwormy: i have this home built pvr scheduler thingy in java, that i use now and then, i was just thinking i would want to add a frontend to it, with some video preview capability
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[22:31:04] <BULLE> jwormy: so far i have just spawned mplayer in command mode and been feeding commands to it via stdin/stdout, it kind of works
[22:31:57] <jwormy> BULLE, eh i think you could use JNI to basically make mplayer a gui..
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[22:44:11] <pr3d4t0r> Insightful article:  http://news.com.com/Andreessen+PHP+succeeding+where+Java+isnt/2100-1012_3-5903187.html?part=rss&tag=5903187&subj=news
[22:45:12] <IseeIsee> ok as there are new people here I post my old question again, may be you people have a solution
[22:45:27] <IseeIsee> ok there is a 2 Player Game and each player has been alloted the keys, aswd and up,right,left,down.. Now each of the player is moving a shape on the screen e.g. a Tank, but the problem is that when one of the player holding a key, the other player cannot move, in other words one player stops then the other player has to take the turn, what can be the solution to make them work concurrenlty
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[22:51:08] <jwormy> pr3d4t0r, yes interesting article...  so is this one: http://news.com.com/Google+builds+an+empire+to+rival+Microsoft/2100-1032_3-5875433.html?tag=st.rc.targ_mb
[22:52:03] <pr3d4t0r> jwormy: Yeah, saw it.
[22:52:11] <pr3d4t0r> jwormy: I think Yahoo! is more worrisome than Google.
[22:54:40] <jwormy> pr3d4t0r, i'm intersted in google as a company..  it's been fun to watch them change from search engine / news.. to..  take over microsofts world..
[22:57:50] <pr3d4t0r> Hrm...  I wonder...
[22:58:12] <pr3d4t0r> How would you represent a tree structure in a relational database?  That's an interesting topology problem.
[22:58:17] <pr3d4t0r> Damn, slava isn't here.
[22:59:04] <ernimril> pr3d4t0r: have a parent_id column?
[22:59:18] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: you just have to keep track of parents
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[22:59:39] <PPSD> hi
[23:00:05] <cybereal> Hello
[23:00:43] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal, ernimril:  Yeah...  it's still an interesting problem.
[23:00:57] <PPSD> i'm developing an applet which needs to request certain objects from a server... is this a job for enterprise beans or a simple tcp/ip communication?
[23:01:21] <pr3d4t0r> Hrm...
[23:01:34] <pr3d4t0r> I think LDAP might be a better solution to this.  Maybe.
[23:02:01] * pr3d4t0r ponders.
[23:02:03] <ernimril> pr3d4t0r: yes it is. We use parent_id:s in our system or connection_id:s in some cases
[23:02:09] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: think about how FAT tables work
[23:03:39] <pr3d4t0r> LDAP it is.  It makes more sense.
[23:04:36] <ernimril> pr3d4t0r: what data is in the tree?
[23:05:47] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: Web browser bookmarks.
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[23:06:35] <ernimril> pr3d4t0r: ah. not similar to the data we have. (network: electricity, optical, water, ... )
[23:06:39] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: Keeping it sorted and nested correctly from a database schema would be fugly.
[23:07:14] <ernimril> pr3d4t0r: just your bookmarks or?
[23:07:21] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: root -> category (bookmark, bookmark, bookmark) -> subcategory (bookmark, bookmark) and so on.
[23:07:28] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: "Yes".
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[23:07:52] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: I already have a prototype of my bookmarks served from my web server.
[23:08:06] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: That way I can add/move/del/view from any browser.
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[23:08:28] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: The "back end" is just a hack based on Mozilla bookmarks.html exports.
[23:08:29] <ernimril> pr3d4t0r: guess that could be good. I prefer to have different bookmarks at home and at work...
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[23:08:48] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: You wouldn't have that problem if you had a central repository for either ;)
[23:09:05] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: Just select the set that you want to work from.
[23:09:06] <ernimril> pr3d4t0r: it is not a problem, it is how I want it to be
[23:09:17] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: I also may be at some Internet cafe somewhere.
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[23:09:22] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: And so on.
[23:09:29] <pr3d4t0r> ernimril: I may want to share some of those bookmarks with you.
[23:09:41] <unbekannt> is there a way to know if join(int) returned from a successful join, or if the timer expired?
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[23:10:04] <unbekannt> or do I have to write my own timer?  (laaaaazy)
[23:10:27] <glen_quagmire> anyone has a link to java swing gui demonstration?? like, how does button look like..etc ?
[23:10:54] <ernimril> glen_quagmire: the java tutorial on swing have several small applets you can use
[23:11:09] <slava> pr3d4t0r!
[23:11:09] <ernimril> glen_quagmire: or you can use the SwingSet demo in the jdk
[23:11:14] <pr3d4t0r> slava!
[23:11:21] <glen_quagmire> i mean, i want some web pages with screenshots
[23:11:33] <pr3d4t0r> slava: I'm thinking of ways of mapping a tree structure to a relational database schema.
[23:11:34] <glen_quagmire> i had one link..but i  htink i deleted it from the book mark
[23:12:03] <slava> pr3d4t0r: that's not what a relational database is made for.
[23:12:13] <pr3d4t0r> slava: I know.
[23:12:15] <slava> pr3d4t0r: i'm writing code in jedit, and reloading it in the objective-c app with quickfix
[23:12:26] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Sweet.
[23:12:34] <pr3d4t0r> slava: I'm also thinking of LDAP.
[23:12:36] <glen_quagmire> i found some thanks
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[23:12:41] <slava> pr3d4t0r: life is good :) quickfix is almost as useful as lisp and factor's interactive development.
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[23:13:20] <slava> pr3d4t0r: i miss having a transcript though.
[23:13:38] <pr3d4t0r> slava: F-script is for you then.
[23:16:00] <pr3d4t0r> Kallistor: Ping...
[23:16:17] <pr3d4t0r> Kallistor: Wrong window, sorry.
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[23:17:25] <Tirlas> ~ask
[23:17:26] <javabot> The Ask To Ask protocol wastes more bandwidth than any version of the Ask protocol, so just ask your question.
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[23:24:18] <zackk> j #C
[23:24:22] <zackk> :X
[23:28:48] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: :-p
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[23:33:02] <Kallistor> was afk for a bit
[23:33:12] <Kallistor> did you message me pr3d4t0r ?
[23:33:57] <pr3d4t0r> Kallistor: It was a mistake, sorry.
[23:34:10] <Kallistor> ah, ok :)
[23:34:11] <pr3d4t0r> Kallistor: I was looking at a different window when I tab-completed.
[23:34:16] <pr3d4t0r> Kallistor: Apologies.
[23:34:17] <slava> pr3d4t0r: now i'm agnry. quickfix doesn't always work, it seems...
[23:34:26] <Twiun> Kallistor: not to worry, he *will* be sorry
[23:34:27] <Kallistor> no problem at all
[23:34:33] * Twiun drags pr3d4t0r off by the ear
[23:34:42] <Kallistor> hehe
[23:35:37] <pr3d4t0r> slava: F-script.
[23:35:48] <pr3d4t0r> Twiun: Aw!
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[23:36:13] <slava> i'm sure f-script has other problems, like no native compilation
[23:37:19] <Kallistor> still having the weird timestamp problem
[23:37:24] <Kallistor> shameless bump
[23:37:28] <Kallistor> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8544
[23:37:45] <Kallistor> anyone has a clue what might be the cause of this ?
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[23:42:37] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Dude, look at it.
[23:42:48] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Don't dismiss it until you've looked at it.
[23:42:58] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Among other things, it supports direct calls to Cocoa objects.
[23:43:13] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Think of it as "Beanshell for Cocoa".
[23:43:45] <slava> nah, i have more interesting languages to play with
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[23:44:25] <slava> this codebase has 60kloc of obj-c, so f-script won't help
[23:44:40] <slava> and if i was doing something new i wouldn't use f-script
[23:44:48] <pr3d4t0r> slava: OS X GUI is a lot bigger and F-script deals with it just fine.
[23:45:05] <pr3d4t0r> slava: But whatever rocks your boat.
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[23:46:07] <slava> pr3d4t0r: i meant writing an app like that in f-script.
[23:47:57] <pr3d4t0r> slava: You said you were missing a transcript.
[23:48:14] <pr3d4t0r> slava: F-script has the transcript and would let you test modules of your application without having to make the whole thing every time.
[23:48:44] <IseeIsee> there is a function processEvent in in the Component class, any idea when is this function called ?
[23:48:49] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Display Cocoa widgets, etc. and/or send the output to a transcript without having to dick with compilation other than the individual modules you're testing.
[23:49:10] <jwormy> ahh gosh my customer insists on using #000fff /#d7d7d7dc / #000000 as a color scheme.. how.. yucky
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[23:49:23] <jwormy> hehe whoops i got a little carried away with my silver there :)
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[23:52:49] <IseeIsee> anybody ?
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[23:59:12] <IseeIsee> boom boom

   October 22, 2005  
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