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[00:01:20] <ocx32> http://pastebin.com/400331

[00:01:26] <ocx32> i read the tutorial cheeser

[00:01:34] <ocx32> i am still at the very beginning

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[00:02:07] <cheeser> then start with the driver loading part

[00:02:13] <ocx32> i did

[00:02:21] <ocx32> i am getting error: no suitable driver

[00:03:41] <Lars_G> ocx32: No, you didn't

[00:03:43] <cheeser> then you aren't loading the (correct) driver

[00:03:54] <Lars_G> ocx32: Sorry you might have.

[00:04:06] <Lars_G> cheeser: He's calling .newInstance() for the loaded class....

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[00:04:10] <Lars_G> cheeser: Is that acceptable?

[00:04:22] <cheeser> you don't need to call new instance

[00:05:07] <Lars_G> cheeser: I think he has a.... ... what's it called?

[00:05:19] <Lars_G> when you're doing stuff in the wrong place, and thus your result is private?

[00:05:32] <Lars_G> forgot the word....

[00:05:53] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Got my XSD and WSDL to generate code using WSDL2Java :-) (however, all that code is quite overwhelming)

[00:06:08] <ocx32> ok remove the newinstance()

[00:07:00] <Lars_G> cheeser: He is calling the Class.forName inside a method, and creating the connection in another method. will he have troubles for that?

[00:07:26] <ocx32> inside constructor

[00:07:36] <Lars_G> I'm too tired now.

[00:07:38] <cheeser> nope

[00:07:41] <Lars_G> See you latter. sorry

[00:07:47] <cheeser> as long as it happens in the correct order

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[00:09:42] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Why are you tired before me?

[00:09:53] <ricky_clarkson> I thought your timezone was a few hours behind mine.

[00:10:00] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Add me to your google talk and shut up silly brit

[00:10:10] *** geren has joined ##java

[00:10:12] <geren> hi guys

[00:10:16] <geren> i have a very embarrasing question

[00:10:21] <ricky_clarkson> You want me to shut up and talk?

[00:10:27] <cyclone> geren: Don't scratch it.

[00:10:42] <Lars_G> yup

[00:11:00] <geren> ok, so i am trying to test this simple class i wrote

[00:11:02] <Lars_G> geren: No, dipping it in alcohol doesn't helps

[00:11:03] <geren> but it wont compile

[00:11:13] <geren> take a look here: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8457

[00:11:36] <geren> what's wrong with it?

[00:11:41] <zackk> import java.io*; ?

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[00:11:54] <cheeser> geren: are these both in the same file?

[00:11:59] <geren> yea

[00:11:59] <geren> i

[00:12:03] <geren> i'd like to keep them in the same file

[00:12:04] <cheeser> geren: put your main in myClass and remove public class test

[00:12:17] <cheeser> and name the file myClass.java

[00:12:26] <cheeser> but for reference class names typically start with a cap

[00:12:26] <Lars_G> cheeser: If you note the braces i think myClass is a subclass

[00:12:37] <geren> yes but i want myClass to be a separate class

[00:12:41] <cheeser> Lars_G: well, that's even more wrong

[00:13:02] <cheeser> geren: then put test and myClass in separate files

[00:13:16] <geren> cheeser, there's no way i can make myClass a seperate class without putting them int he same file?

[00:13:23] <geren> in other words, i can only have one class per file?

[00:13:27] <cheeser> sure you can, but it's bad style.

[00:13:37] <cheeser> but a .java can only have one top level public class.

[00:13:41] <Lars_G> very bad style

[00:13:46] <cheeser> and that class name must match the file name

[00:13:56] <cheeser> and if you don't know what that means, just create two .java files

[00:14:20] <geren> ok it works now!!!

[00:14:21] <ricky_clarkson> I disagree, I think it's fine to have more than one class per file, as longas ONLY the classes in that file use the class.

[00:14:21] <geren> thanks!!!

[00:14:29] <ricky_clarkson> I'm not very strong on the matter thogh.

[00:15:59] <geren> if i do,

[00:16:00] <geren> public class MyClassSub () extends MyClass{

[00:16:00] <geren> }

[00:16:00] <geren>  //MyClassSub extends MyClass

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[00:16:16] <geren> can i leave MyClassSub totally blank, and let it use the Super class's constructor?

[00:16:16] * ricky_clarkson doesn't see the need to extend classes, but Hokay!

[00:16:56] <cheeser> constructors aren't inherited.

[00:17:02] <geren> really?

[00:17:06] <cheeser> yep

[00:17:08] <geren> what abotu "super constructor" ?

[00:17:13] <cheeser> what about it?

[00:17:17] <geren> do they exist?

[00:17:24] <cheeser> sure.

[00:17:26] <cheeser> super();

[00:17:31] <cheeser> super("eat me");

[00:17:33] <cheeser> etc.

[00:17:37] <geren> what does "super()" do? invoke the superclass's constructor?

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[00:18:25] <cheeser> yep

[00:18:30] <cheeser> javabot: tell geren about constructors

[00:18:30] <javabot> geren, constructors is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/java/javaOO/constructors.html

[00:18:30] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell geren about super

[00:18:32] <javabot> geren, super is http://mindprod.com/jgloss/super.html

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[00:19:44] <geren> when i write a class, is it necessary to put "public class..." or can i just do "class..."

[00:19:46] <geren> what's the difference?

[00:19:56] <cheeser> javabot: tell geren about accesscontrol

[00:19:57] <javabot> geren, accesscontrol is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/java/javaOO/accesscontrol.html

[00:20:00] <saerdna_> http://pastebin.com/400345   Why do i get cannot find symbol  method eval(YatzyDices)  when i try to call YatzyScore.PAIR.eval(...) from another class ?

[00:20:50] <eidolon> saerdna_: this smells of a homework problem.

[00:21:11] <Stork> speaking of homework

[00:21:11] <cheeser> it'd have to be to have such bad style.

[00:21:20] <cheeser> surely no one gets paid for that kind of code.

[00:21:25] <Stork> in the college i looked at today, the programming course is so lame

[00:21:32] <Stork> it's like, basic pascal :(

[00:21:42] <eidolon> hey cheeser, i posted the hibernate problem i'm stuck on to the hibernate forums.  i think i've stumped folks there too. :-/

[00:21:53] <eidolon> http://forum.hibernate.org/viewtopic.php?t=949092

[00:21:55] <jwormy> eidolon, did you im that guy i got you with last night?

[00:22:03] <saerdna_> eidolon: no. im just trying to run a method in a enum. whats crazy bout that?

[00:22:05] <eidolon> jwormy: he and i worke don this until almost 3am.

[00:22:16] <eidolon> and didn't come up with an answer.

[00:22:30] <cheeser> can enums have methods?

[00:22:46] <saerdna_> from what i have read they can :s

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[00:23:25] <saerdna_> i mean, they have toString() so why not

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[00:23:55] <ernimril> saerdna_: then say that your enum has a method eval

[00:24:15] <saerdna_> yeah

[00:24:24] <saerdna_> every item in the eval has a enum

[00:24:31] <ernimril> saerdna_: but not the enum itself

[00:24:44] <saerdna_> eh, s/enum/eval()

[00:24:55] <saerdna_> ernimril: mhm?

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[00:26:44] <ernimril> saerdna_: declare the method in the enum, and implement it in the enum instances (as you do today)

[00:27:16] <saerdna_> ah

[00:27:21] <saerdna_> seems like it works

[00:27:24] <saerdna_> like a interface?

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[00:27:57] <saerdna_> awesome great!

[00:28:11] <jwormy> delvinj, ping!

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[00:29:01] <Stork> pong!

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[00:35:31] <saerdna_> hmmm why doesnt java allow this? can it be done in another nice way?  if(values[0] == values[1] == values[2] == values[3] == values[4])

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[00:38:25] <pr3d4t0r> saerdna_: What type is values?

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[00:39:02] <saerdna_> pr3d4t0r: int[]

[00:39:11] <pr3d4t0r> saerdna_: Try:

[00:39:34] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Gracias por esta.

[00:39:48] <pr3d4t0r> saerdna_: if ((values[0] & values[1] & values[2] & values[3] & values[4]) != 0)

[00:39:50] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: No hay problema. I'll go eat though.

[00:40:17] <saerdna_> pr3d4t0r: bitwise?

[00:40:17] <ricky_clarkson> In future I'll try to use more Spanish, hopefully this book will help me a lot.

[00:40:19] <pr3d4t0r> saerdna_: Wait, wrong operator.

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[00:41:16] <pr3d4t0r> saerdna_: Let me think for a moment.

[00:41:22] <Lars_G> will it help if I use only spanish? since otherwise I can polish my english too

[00:41:23] <saerdna_> sure

[00:41:38] <saerdna_> ricky_clarkson: what do you say about it?

[00:41:55] <pr3d4t0r> saerdna_: Are you always comparing five values?

[00:42:01] <saerdna_> pr3d4t0r: yeah

[00:42:17] <jwormy> pr3d4t0r, saerdna_ is using java to find out which is the best girl for him!

[00:42:35] <saerdna_> how did you know!

[00:42:37] <ricky_clarkson> saerdna_: That all depends on what 'it' is.

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[00:42:42] <jwormy> saerdna_, ;)

[00:42:44] <pr3d4t0r> saerdna_: a0 ^ a1 == 0 if a0 == a1;

[00:42:48] <vinse> pr3d4t0r: s/&/^ ?

[00:43:00] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

[00:43:03] <ramza3> just thought I would let you guys know, I sneaked some python code into our java codebase

[00:43:20] <saerdna_> pr3d4t0r: wowsers

[00:43:21] <Lars_G> ramza3: wonderfull!

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[00:43:44] <saerdna_> pr3d4t0r: i dont understand thatone :)

[00:43:47] <ramza3> the niche language group has an uphill battle, but these small victories will help us win the war

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[00:44:09] <pr3d4t0r> saerdna_: if ((a0 ^ a1 ^ a2 ^ a3 ^ a4) == a0)

[00:44:18] <ricky_clarkson> saerdna_: if (s0==s1 && s1==s2 && s2==s3 && s3==s4) whatever

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[00:44:37] <vinse> pr3d4t0r: that last a0 should be 0 ?

[00:45:03] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Zero if he's comparing even variables, a0 if he's comparing odd.

[00:45:08] <ricky_clarkson> I don't trust bitwise operators until I've spent far too long staring at them.

[00:45:12] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: He's got 5.

[00:45:30] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: That's because you're an apps programmer.

[00:45:40] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: Fine by me, el viejo.

[00:45:58] <ricky_clarkson> Shit, learning spanish could get me into trouble.

[00:46:05] <ricky_clarkson> No offence meant there.

[00:46:32] <cheeser> pr3d4t0r: why not just and them all together and compare to a0?

[00:46:45] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: a0 ^ a1 == 0 ^ a2 == a2 ^ a3 == 0 ^ a4 == a4.

[00:46:52] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: 2&2&2&2&4==2

[00:47:09] <pr3d4t0r> :)

[00:47:52] <ricky_clarkson> I think the simple solution I gave above is the best, unles you use a for loop.

[00:48:00] <ramza3> LarsG: this 800 line module basically does what a 30,000 line java app does, but I needed my own modifications, two 4 days

[00:48:10] <cheeser> 		System.out.println(2&2&2&2&4);

[00:48:10] <ramza3> s/two/took

[00:48:12] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: No, it's not.  Too slow to execute.

[00:48:13] <cheeser> 0

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[00:48:25] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: Er, s/4/6/

[00:48:36] <saerdna_> ricky_clarkson: hace calor

[00:48:43] * cheeser nods sagely.

[00:48:46] <ricky_clarkson> saerdna_: "It's hot"?

[00:48:54] <saerdna_> something like that

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[00:49:10] <saerdna_> only read 1 year spanish when i was 15

[00:49:13] <saerdna_> forgott everything already

[00:49:28] <Baloogan> Hey how do I pass an array to a function?

[00:49:33] * ricky_clarkson abierta el tercero vino

[00:49:36] <Baloogan> static boolean fromStringToBase(Base[] b, String str)

[00:49:37] <ramza3> que hace tiempo?  that mean anything

[00:49:38] <Baloogan> isn't working

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[00:49:45] <ricky_clarkson> Baloogan: The same way as anythink else.

[00:49:46] <Baloogan> b inside the function is fine.

[00:49:55] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Baloogan about doesn't work

[00:49:55] <javabot> Baloogan, doesn't work is useless.  Tell us what it is, what you want it to do, and what it is doing.

[00:50:01] <Baloogan> DNA.fromStringToBase(bases, pre)

[00:50:11] <Baloogan> bases is Base[]

[00:50:15] <Baloogan> pre is a string

[00:50:18] <Baloogan> the function works

[00:50:26] <ricky_clarkson> ~enter

[00:50:26] <javabot> Don't press return until you've finished typing your question, it's annoying to see multiple lines for one question, and hard to follow.

[00:50:27] <Baloogan> System.out.println(bases.length); afterwards

[00:50:29] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: "abre"

[00:50:34] <Baloogan> gives Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NullPointerException

[00:50:40] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Abre = Opens. Abierto = Is opened.

[00:50:47] <ricky_clarkson> Vale.

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[00:50:52] <cheeser> Baloogan: all method parameters are pass by value

[00:51:01] <cheeser> you can't change the value of bases inside the method

[00:51:04] <Baloogan> I want to pass refeerence.

[00:51:07] <cheeser> too bad

[00:51:09] <Baloogan> cheeser: So how can I?

[00:51:21] <Baloogan> No pointer in java?

[00:51:28] <ricky_clarkson> Yes pointer in Java.

[00:51:28] <cheeser> you create bases with correct size and then just set values in the method

[00:51:34] <cheeser> sort of pointers in java.

[00:51:41] <cheeser> but not like you think of them in c/c++

[00:51:42] <Baloogan> So I need to make the Base array

[00:51:50] <Baloogan> then pass it to the function

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[00:51:57] <cheeser> right.  like i said.

[00:51:58] <Baloogan> and it can punch the values in?

[00:52:03] <Baloogan> and then I have an array?

[00:52:15] <cheeser> you have an array either way

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[00:52:27] <ricky_clarkson> Baloogan: What's your error?

[00:52:29] <geren> ok

[00:52:37] <Baloogan> ricky_clarkson: Look above.

[00:52:54] <geren> if i write a function as static, does it mean that when i compile my code, i can just do MyClass.function() at the command line?

[00:52:58] <cheeser> he gets an npe because he's trying change the array reference he passes into the method.

[00:53:02] <ricky_clarkson> Baloogan: What line of code gives the NPE?

[00:53:03] <vinse> pr3d4t0r: a0 ^ a1 ^ a2 == a2 does not imply a0==a1==a2, only that a0==a1

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[00:53:06] <cheeser> geren: no

[00:53:07] <Baloogan> ricky_clarkson: Look above.

[00:53:09] <vinse> i think

[00:53:27] <Baloogan> <Baloogan> System.out.println(bases.length); afterwards

[00:53:27] <Baloogan> <Baloogan> gives Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NullPointerException

[00:53:56] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Exactly.

[00:53:58] <ricky_clarkson> bases is null

[00:54:14] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: A0 ^ a1 ^ a2 == a2 only if a0 == a1 == a2.

[00:54:26] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: And if none of them is zero.

[00:54:33] <omry> hi. this may be a bit out of place here : I am setting up JDBCRealm authentication in tomcat 4. I didn't figure out how roles comes into play: what are the logged in user roles are compared against?

[00:54:39] <vinse> oh, a0

[00:54:41] <vinse> right

[00:54:46] <Baloogan> ricky_clarkson: Yeah. I get that.

[00:54:46] <vinse> i see now ;)

[00:54:48] <geren> cheeser, so i know that almost all methods i use in my Main are declared static methods,

[00:54:52] <Baloogan> ricky_clarkson: My problem is solved.

[00:54:55] <Baloogan> Java is wierd.

[00:54:55] <ricky_clarkson> Baloogan: So don't set it to null.

[00:54:56] <Baloogan> :/

[00:54:59] <geren> when would i need to declare my method as non-static?

[00:55:02] <vinse> toggles between 0 and the first value

[00:55:03] <vinse> cute

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[00:55:21] <ricky_clarkson> geren: When you want it to be part of an object rather than a class.

[00:55:40] <ricky_clarkson> geren: Or more specifically, when you want it to operate on an object.

[00:55:43] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: If saerdna_ were paying me for this, I can probably come up with a better Boolean expression ;)

[00:55:57] <ricky_clarkson> [without having to take that object as a parameter]

[00:56:08] <cheeser> geren: your main should typicaly just create the object and call methods on that object.  like a run() or a go() or whatever.

[00:56:14] <vinse> it's already been thoroughly overdone, ricky_clarkson's is fine

[00:56:33] * ricky_clarkson teh pragmatist.

[00:56:34] <geren> ricky_clarkson, when i run my program like "java myProg"

[00:56:40] <geren> that's creating an object of my class?

[00:56:47] <ricky_clarkson> geren: Not in the slightest.

[00:56:53] <geren> hmm?

[00:56:56] <ricky_clarkson> No.

[00:57:03] <cheeser> geren: objects are only created with the 'new' keyword

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[00:57:14] <geren> right, so what am i doing when i do "java myProg"

[00:57:18] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: Where can I buy a new keyword?

[00:57:50] * cheeser refers ricky_clarkson to Vanna White

[00:57:53] <ricky_clarkson> geren: Running a program, particularly the main method of the misnamed class 'myProg'.

[00:57:54] <geren> anyway, do u usually need to put the word "public" when u r writing a method for your Main?

[00:58:03] <cheeser> javabot: tell geren about aolbonics

[00:58:03] <javabot> geren, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201

[00:58:14] <geren> anyway, do you usually need to put the word "public" when you arer writing a method for your Main?

[00:58:27] <cheeser> geren: the main method *has* to have the signature "public static void main(String[])"

[00:58:29] <ricky_clarkson> geren: Depends which method.

[00:58:49] <geren> ok but what does the "public" keyword signify?

[00:58:56] <ricky_clarkson> ~public

[00:58:57] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, I have no idea what public is.

[00:59:03] <ricky_clarkson> ~visibility

[00:59:03] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, visibility is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/java/javaOO/accesscontrol.html

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[00:59:16] <ricky_clarkson> geren: ^^

[00:59:23] <Lars_G> http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20051007.html

[00:59:27] <geren> ricky_clarkson, you mean that if i make a method public, other classes from other files can call it?

[00:59:57] <ricky_clarkson> geren: s/files/packages/ s/call/use/

[00:59:57] <Lars_G> ROFL

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[01:00:12] <geren> ok right

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[01:01:35] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: That slang guide looks useful, but I need to understand the Spanish that describes the slang first.

[01:02:22] <ricky_clarkson> It's interesting that Puerto Ricans use 'birra' instead of 'cerveza' though, as that's what Italians use.

[01:02:39] <geren> wait

[01:03:07] <ricky_clarkson> notify

[01:03:08] <geren> when i wrote my java program, i did not import ANY package at all (ie, i never the 'import' line)

[01:03:14] <cheeser> geren: that's fine

[01:03:16] <geren> but my program compiled and ran succesffuly

[01:03:18] <geren> why isthat?

[01:03:26] <geren> does it mean that some packages are imported by default?

[01:03:30] <cheeser> because you didn't need to import anything.

[01:03:36] <geren> like what pakcage does System.out.println fall under?

[01:03:37] <cheeser> java.lang.* is imported implicitly

[01:03:39] <ricky_clarkson> java.lang is imported by default.

[01:03:41] <geren> oh ok

[01:03:50] <cheeser> java.lang.System

[01:03:55] <geren> ok

[01:04:03] <geren> but i write my own class, why don't i need to import that?

[01:04:09] <ricky_clarkson> out is a field in System, a PrintStream.

[01:04:10] <cheeser> because

[01:04:17] <geren> i mean i just placed my myClass.java under the same folder, and it recognizes it

[01:04:22] <geren> without any headers like in C

[01:04:24] <geren> or C++

[01:04:25] <ricky_clarkson> geren: Because it's part of the same package, the 'unnamed' package.

[01:04:32] <cheeser> a class doesn't need to be told about itself

[01:04:32] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: We use birra too, also "fria" (cold).

[01:04:36] <geren> what is the "unnamed:" packaged?

[01:04:46] <cheeser> geren: the package with no namw

[01:04:48] <ricky_clarkson> The package with no name.

[01:04:48] <cheeser> name

[01:04:50] <cheeser> 8^)=

[01:04:54] <geren> hmm

[01:05:06] <geren> so java.lang is a package

[01:05:10] * ricky_clarkson high-fives cheeser, while making sure nobody looks.

[01:05:11] <geren> but java.lang.System is also a package?

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[01:05:19] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell geren about javadoc System

[01:05:19] <javabot> geren, please see java.lang.System: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/System.html

[01:05:23] <geren> does that mean that java.lang is a superset of classes of java.lang.System?

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[01:05:43] <ricky_clarkson> geren: System is a class.

[01:05:50] <geren> say java.lang.System contains (a.class, b.class, c.class), and java.lang contains (a.class, b.class, c.class, d.class) ?

[01:05:52] <geren> oh

[01:05:59] <geren> java.lang.System is a class, but not a package?

[01:06:04] <ricky_clarkson> geren: It resides in the package java.lang, which you can think of as a folder or directory if you like.

[01:06:07] <ricky_clarkson> geren: Right.

[01:06:09] <geren> ok

[01:06:17] <geren> can i tell by the name whether its a package or class?

[01:06:22] <ricky_clarkson> Yes.

[01:06:25] <ricky_clarkson> ~conventions

[01:06:25] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, conventions is http://java.sun.com/docs/codeconv/html/CodeConvTOC.doc.html , or "ThisIsAClassName, thisIsAVariableOrMethodName, THIS_IS_A_CONSTANT_NAME"

[01:06:25] <Lars_G> geren: java.lang.System is the System class in the java.lang package

[01:06:29] <jwormy> geren, Classes start with big letters

[01:06:32] <geren> oh ic

[01:06:35] <ricky_clarkson> package.names.look.like.this

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[01:06:54] <geren> so if i copied the actual .java file for java.lang.System into my working directory, that works as well, right?

[01:07:02] <ricky_clarkson> geren: Doubtful.

[01:07:03] <jwormy> oh gosh

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[01:07:05] <cheeser> no

[01:07:06] <jwormy> don't do that

[01:07:14] <geren> i mean doing import is just a fancy way of saying i want to use some methods in some classes that's in another folder?

[01:07:14] <cheeser> geren: you import classes not .java files

[01:07:21] <Lars_G> geren: It will not be easy, since the base classes come packed in a few JAR files.

[01:07:28] <ricky_clarkson> geren: Your files are in the unnamed package, not the java.lang package.

[01:07:38] <cheeser> importing is a way of saying you want to use a class without fully qualifying the name all the time.

[01:07:40] <Lars_G> geren: Plus as cheeser says, .java are source files. classes are name .class either inside or outside a Jar

[01:07:41] <cheeser> geren: are you taking a class?

[01:07:50] <geren> no

[01:07:57] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: He's taking a package ;)

[01:07:59] <cheeser> you really should.  or read a book...

[01:08:01] <geren> just learning about java

[01:08:02] <cheeser> ricky_clarkson: tee hee hee

[01:08:06] <geren> yes but most books dont explain things well

[01:08:07] * Lars_G slaps ricky_clarkson

[01:08:10] <geren> and have no examples

[01:08:14] <ricky_clarkson> geren: Where are you learning from?

[01:08:16] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Btw you did sound older than I tought.

[01:08:18] <cheeser> geren: they explain better if you read them.

[01:08:27] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Give me cheeser's home number, I want to see how his voice sounds.

[01:08:36] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: I don't have it any more.

[01:08:40] <Lars_G> ~cheeser++

[01:08:42] <javabot> cheeser has a karma level of 147, Lars_G

[01:08:43] <ricky_clarkson> Unless it's still on orkut.

[01:09:07] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: Your karma is now the maximum natural break that snooker lets you get!

[01:09:19] <ricky_clarkson> You probably don't know what that means, but celebrate it anyway!

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[01:09:24] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: My own karma would be higher if it werent for you

[01:09:31] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Why?

[01:09:40] <jwormy> my karma is mad high considering my productivity

[01:10:09] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: I killed it showing you the old bug with karma/factoids order, and you never restored it. I think you even laughed at me. :)

[01:10:15] * cheeser lifts a beer with ricky_clarkson

[01:10:16] <ricky_clarkson> jeje

[01:10:22] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: That, and I piss off the ops too much

[01:10:42] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: Get off my beer!

[01:11:02] <jwormy> vinse, try it now :)

[01:11:04] <cheeser> Lars_G: nah, we just kick you.  decrementing karma is for plebeians

[01:11:15] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snooker ??

[01:11:27] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Probablemente.

[01:11:46] 

[01:12:06] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson:  The highest break in tournament play is 149, the highest break in professional matchplay is 148.

[01:12:09] <Lars_G> I get it now

[01:12:22] <ricky_clarkson> 147 is the highest without the opponent fouling first.

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[01:12:30] <Lars_G> The highest possible break that can be achieved in normal play is 147;

[01:12:33] <ricky_clarkson> Hence 'natural'.

[01:12:35] <vinse> ~jwormy

[01:12:42] <javabot> I guess the factoid '~jwormy' might be appropriate:

[01:12:44] <javabot> vinse, ~jwormy is a pimp, and jcscoobyrs is an asshat.

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[01:12:53] <ricky_clarkson> The highest possible is 147+7, 154.  Afaik.

[01:12:54] <vinse> woah woah woah

[01:12:59] <vinse> who allowed that?

[01:13:00] <ricky_clarkson> Er, no, 155.

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[01:13:06] <Lars_G> vinse: Not jcscoobyrs

[01:13:10] <ricky_clarkson> ~forget ~jwormy

[01:13:11] <javabot> I forgot about ~jwormy, ricky_clarkson.

[01:13:32] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson:  155 points. This has never been done.

[01:13:35] <cheeser> javabot: jwormy is someone how sucks at using javabot

[01:13:36] <javabot> Okay, cheeser.

[01:13:37] <ricky_clarkson> I don't mind factoids that insult jeremies, but they must make sense.

[01:13:46] <cheeser> javabot: no, jwormy is someone who sucks at using javabot

[01:13:47] <javabot> Okay, cheeser.

[01:13:49] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: I think it has, but not in official tournaments.

[01:14:26] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Bah, you're not on the notable players list, I dont need to pay you any heed then

[01:14:44] <ricky_clarkson> My highest break is 23.

[01:15:09] <ricky_clarkson> Damn, I said I'd try and keep that up with my age.

[01:15:21] * ricky_clarkson turns 25 next month, must get in the snooker halls quick!

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[01:16:26] <ricky_clarkson> It's a ridiculously hard sport, the accuracy is amazing.  I can only come close to the pros sporadically.

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[01:17:05] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: wtf, I'm older than you?

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[01:17:13] <Lars_G> I turn 29 on saturday (this saturday)

[01:17:14] <ricky_clarkson> Probably.

[01:17:18] <ricky_clarkson> Yes then.

[01:17:45] <Lars_G> do you want my amazon wishlist? ;)

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[01:18:41] <ricky_clarkson> So, anyone watch the game tonight?  No?  Oh well.

[01:19:31] <Lars_G> snooker game?

[01:20:01] <Lars_G> So you spent, what, an hour watching guys pushing balls over a table? isn't that porn?

[01:20:31] * cheeser makes a note not to visit Venezuela.

[01:20:45] <saerdna_> is it difficult to make a random obj which ranomdizes diffent nums each time?

[01:21:10] <Lars_G> saerdna_: eh?

[01:21:47] <saerdna_> i get exatly the same numbers each time with java.util.Random

[01:22:03] <Lars_G> saerdna_: I guess there must be a seed somewhere... seed it

[01:22:12] <Lars_G> ~javadoc java.util.Random

[01:22:13] <javabot> Lars_G, please see java.util.Random: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/Random.html

[01:22:20] <saerdna_> yeah but

[01:22:21] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: I was just trying to find a polite distraction from your amazon wishlist.  As it happens I haven;t watched any sport since the weekend, and even that was only highlights of snooker (yes, such a think is possible).

[01:22:33] <saerdna_> the seed is always the same too?

[01:22:44] <Lars_G> saerdna_: Yes you have a constructor with a seed, and a setSeed method.

[01:22:53] <ricky_clarkson> saerdna_: You are making the mistake of creating a new Random every time you want a new random number.

[01:23:05] <ricky_clarkson> saerdna_: Math.random() is far easier for eejits.

[01:23:08] <Lars_G> saerdna_: same seed, same random numbers. Use a timer/second counter to seed it, it's what's common over in C

[01:23:24] <ricky_clarkson> eejit is a polite Irish term for an intelligent person.

[01:23:30] <ricky_clarkson> At least that's what they told me.

[01:23:34] <Lars_G> right, sure is

[01:24:01] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Anyhow, you just have to say you don't love me anymore, and won't send a bday gift, and not create fake distractions.

[01:24:03] <saerdna_> ~javadoc java.Math

[01:24:04] <javabot> I don't know of any documentation for java.Math

[01:24:21] <Lars_G> ~javadoc java.lang.Math

[01:24:21] <javabot> Lars_G, please see java.lang.Math: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Math.html

[01:24:21] <ricky_clarkson> ~javadoc Math

[01:24:23] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, please see java.lang.Math: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Math.html

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[01:25:03] <Lars_G> Ah yes, you said it's what 11Pm now?

[01:25:14] <saerdna_> 1.30 am

[01:25:26] <Lars_G> 12:26

[01:25:42] <saerdna_> Math.Random returns something between 0.0 and 1.0

[01:25:44] <ricky_clarkson> 12:26, yep.

[01:25:52] <ricky_clarkson> saerdna_: Yes.

[01:25:52] <saerdna_> i just need a random integer for my yatzydices :O

[01:25:58] <Lars_G> saerdna_: correct.

[01:26:05] <Lars_G> saerdna_: Multiply and get an absolute value....

[01:26:15] <Lars_G> round, not absolute, sorry

[01:26:38] <ricky_clarkson> saerdna_: Nah, multiply it then cast to int, much more predictable.

[01:26:44] <saerdna_> round? gives 0 or 1?

[01:26:45] 

[01:26:45] <cheeser> javabot: javadoc Random

[01:26:46] <javabot> cheeser, please see java.util.Random: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/Random.html

[01:26:47] <Lars_G> true

[01:26:55] <Lars_G> saerdna_: Not if you multiply first

[01:27:42] * Lars_G can't beleive all the hardship over a random :)

[01:28:00] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Did you get 12:26 from my IRC client via CTCP then?

[01:28:01] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Hace cuanto que eres op?

[01:28:05] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: yup

[01:28:20] <saerdna_> its just messed up. java.util.Random should generate true random instead of same stuff everytime

[01:28:20] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Cool, because that IRC client is in San Francisco.

[01:28:35] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Lol, shell on pr3d's machine?

[01:28:40] <ricky_clarkson> Yep.

[01:29:03] <Lars_G> saerdna_: Dude, do you have a software based method to generate really random numbers? you'll be rich!!! go out and patent it!

[01:29:13] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Are you asking whether I am an operator?

[01:29:17] <Lars_G> saerdna_: Else, go learn how random generation works, and stop jumping to conclusions.

[01:29:26] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: asking how long you've been

[01:29:40] <saerdna_> Lars_G: i know but it shold autoseed it with microtime or something

[01:29:41] <Lars_G> Sigh ok I'm loosing my calm here, time to divert my attention

[01:29:54] <saerdna_> can i make it seed with some time stuff? i dont know about java time functions

[01:29:59] <ricky_clarkson> saerdna_: Random does not give the same number every time.

[01:30:12] <saerdna_> ricky_clarkson: mine does, if i rerun the program that is

[01:30:12] <Lars_G> saerdna_: Could be, but this way it lets you either seed it with microtime, or use a fixed seed if you need such a case.

[01:30:34] <ricky_clarkson> saerdna_: Then you must be supplying it with a hard-coded seed.

[01:30:41] <saerdna_> ricky_clarkson: yes

[01:30:49] <cheeser> so don't do that...

[01:30:51] <ricky_clarkson> saerdna_: Well, uh, don't.

[01:31:00] <ricky_clarkson> "It hurts when I do this".

[01:31:00] <saerdna_> how do i supply a "dynamic" seed?

[01:31:07] <Lars_G> saerdna_: Do not supply a seed?

[01:31:16] <Lars_G> saerdna_: There is a seedless constructor

[01:31:17] <ricky_clarkson> saerdna_: Provide no parameter, probably.

[01:31:25] <saerdna_> tried that too

[01:31:29] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: A eunuch?

[01:31:34] <ricky_clarkson> saerdna_: And?

[01:31:39] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: what?

[01:31:43] <ricky_clarkson> Nm

[01:31:43] <Lars_G> doh

[01:31:49] <Lars_G> That one was bad.

[01:32:02] <ricky_clarkson> peor.

[01:32:11] <Lars_G> peor = worse.

[01:32:18] <saerdna_> hm. the compiler didnt recompile Dice.java when i compiled  Yatzy.java  that was why

[01:32:21] <ricky_clarkson> lo se

[01:32:28] <Lars_G> ok

[01:32:38] <ricky_clarkson> saerdna_: Try controlling your 'compiler'.

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[01:34:33] <saerdna_> <424> java Test

[01:34:34] <saerdna_> 3 3 3 3 3  = Yatzy on 4413 try!

[01:34:36] <saerdna_> lol.

[01:35:35] <ricky_clarkson> Spiced Pork and Ham.

[01:36:04] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: This late?

[01:36:08] <saerdna_> cinamon buns

[01:36:48] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: I'll have some porridge, then retire for the night.

[01:37:33] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: I like it when I discover some construct that I thought was language specific, like 'more or less' (mas o menos), "because thanks to $whatever" (porque gracias a $whatever).

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[01:39:20] <saerdna_> hasta manana

[01:39:37] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Nod.

[01:39:53] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Have a nice dinner, on my side I'm fighting with friggin ftp daemons until I can make one work

[01:40:13] <mohadib> Lars_G: vsftp is pretty nice

[01:40:29] <saerdna_> scp is alsonice

[01:40:45] <Lars_G> scp != ftp ;)

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[01:40:54] <saerdna_> sftp > ftp

[01:40:59] <ricky_clarkson> I've been annoyed with psftp (putty's sftp), it hangs arbitrarily.

[01:41:09] <Lars_G> mohadib: I'll look at it. Pure-ftpd and proftpd are driving me crazy

[01:41:10] <ricky_clarkson> sftp is just a hack on top of ssh.

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[01:41:23] <saerdna_> ricky_clarkson: yes

[01:41:26] <mohadib> Lars_G: vsftp is what kernel.org uses

[01:41:34] <saerdna_> but its still more secure than regular ftp

[01:41:38] <Lars_G> mohadib: Need a mysql authenticating ftp. And I don't want to have to set up MySQL via PAM

[01:41:40] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: s/dinner/supper/

[01:41:52] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Thanks

[01:42:00] <mohadib> Lars_G: i dont know if vsftp supports that

[01:42:07] <vinse> wtf is "supper" ?

[01:42:16] <Lars_G> mohadib: Sigh if it doesn't I'll need to use pam with mysql... noooooo

[01:42:21] <ricky_clarkson> vinse: A late-night snack before bed.

[01:42:22] <mohadib> heh

[01:42:23] <vinse> "supper" is only used by people for whom "tea" is a meal

[01:42:34] <saerdna_> lol

[01:42:38] <Lars_G> lol

[01:42:38] <ricky_clarkson> vinse: 1. Wrong. 2. Tea is a meal.

[01:43:00] <saerdna_> chai tea

[01:43:09] <ricky_clarkson> Tea is also a drink.

[01:43:10] <Lars_G> saerdna_: chai == tea

[01:43:22] <ricky_clarkson> It is common to drink tea with your tea.

[01:43:25] <vinse> i remember whne i was england we went to watch a cricket match ... all of a sudden everyone ran off the field and i was like, "my god is it finally over" and was told, "no, tea time!"

[01:43:28] <Lars_G> vinse: Tibetan's tea counts as meal.

[01:43:39] <vinse> that was my last cricket match

[01:43:41] <ricky_clarkson> vinse: Cricket sucketh greatlyeth.

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[01:43:58] <saerdna_> Lars_G: its also a kind of tea

[01:44:36] <saerdna_> anyway broders, i hate to dissapoint you but tea == horsepee

[01:44:42] <Lars_G> saerdna_: Afaik, chai is only tea in chinese (tchai actually I think).... but certain "elegant" places have started using the word to mean a kind of assiatic tea

[01:45:02] <vinse> Lars_G: first time i've heard anyone call Starbucks "elegant"

[01:45:02] <ricky_clarkson> In the North of England, tea is the early evening meal, but outside influences are removing that.

[01:45:06] <Lars_G> saerdna_: And nobody who says "broders" will change my view

[01:45:22] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: sad, very sad.

[01:45:39] <ricky_clarkson> Dinner is the midday meal.

[01:45:40] <saerdna_> Lars_G: i just got it from lost s02 e01  "lower your gun broder!"  with that scottish dialect

[01:45:43] <saerdna_> soo funny

[01:45:43] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: While mom lived, i started ever day with a nice cup of Earl Gray, or Blackcurrant.

[01:46:08] <vinse> earl gray is the worst

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[01:46:22] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: I hardly ever touch Earl Gray, because I've come across too many of their floral varieties.  Ugh.

[01:46:24] <vinse> tastes like a mouthful of dust

[01:46:31] <ricky_clarkson> I do not drink flowers.

[01:46:49] <ricky_clarkson> vinse: Tetley Tea, with milk.  Nice.

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[01:47:00] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: ping

[01:47:15] <jwormy> mathew b. jones

[01:47:20] <ricky_clarkson> vinse: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A61345

[01:47:29] <saerdna_> Lars_G: "chai tea" to me is tea with cinamon, cardamom and ginger

[01:47:42] <Lars_G> I like Earl Gray, and I'll whack anybody who tried to steal it from me with a baseball bat.

[01:47:45] <vinse> i prefer coffee to tea anyway ... especially if i'm gonna start putting stuff in it, milk, etc.  may as well go the whole 9 and get a latte or something!

[01:47:50] <Lars_G> So piss off :P

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[01:48:07] <vinse> but we're just a couple of sentences away from being policed by cheeser for being off topic

[01:48:21] <Lars_G> vinse: "Latte" Is another aberration for me, specially comming from a place with a long and nice coffee tradition.

[01:48:24] <vinse> so i'm out of here!

[01:48:31] <saerdna_> diet coke is nice

[01:48:31] <jwormy> vinse, dude, do it

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[01:48:42] <ricky_clarkson> Latte just means milky, I think.

[01:48:51] <vinse> Lars_G: so i guess you dont want a nice Venti Frappuccino?

[01:49:00] <vinse> ~jwormy

[01:49:01] <javabot> vinse, jwormy is someone who sucks at using javabot

[01:49:09] <jwormy> ohhh dangit

[01:49:13] <saerdna_> Lars_G: latte, cafe au lau espresso  blablabla

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[01:49:21] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Yup. Locally the latte is the "Con Leche" (with milk, light.)

[01:49:23] <jwormy> Javabot forget jwormy

[01:49:26] <ricky_clarkson> una cafe con leche

[01:49:32] <jwormy> ~forget jwormy

[01:49:33] <javabot> I forgot about jwormy, jwormy.

[01:49:34] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: un, coffee is male.

[01:49:37] <vinse> we made a Starbucks order generator at one of my jobs

[01:49:45] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Not the way I drink it.

[01:49:49] <Lars_G> hahahaha

[01:49:50] <saerdna_> capuccion

[01:49:50] <vinse> it tried to generate really long valid starbucks orders

[01:49:51] <saerdna_> o

[01:50:04] <vinse> Venti Soy No-

[01:50:07] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: I drink Con Leche too, and it's male :P

[01:50:12] <vinse> Foam Vanilla Decaffe Latte

[01:50:17] <vinse> etc.

[01:50:19] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Nudge nudge

[01:50:23] <Lars_G> Our selection is smaller.

[01:50:25] <Lars_G> We have:

[01:50:27] <Lars_G> Con Leche

[01:50:28] <Lars_G> Marron

[01:50:31] <Lars_G> Negro

[01:50:34] <Lars_G> Negrito corto

[01:50:37] <Lars_G> Negrito largo

[01:50:38] <ricky_clarkson> I ask for coffee with milk separate, or a cappucino.

[01:50:39] <Lars_G> Guayoyo

[01:50:45] <Lars_G> those are the coffees common to us

[01:50:46] <jwormy> can't you put all that on one line?

[01:51:05] <saerdna_> jwormy: afraid of your 56 to lagg out?

[01:51:14] <mohadib> hah

[01:51:22] <ricky_clarkson> I used to go for mochas (coffee and chocolate) but I just want the coffee now.

[01:51:29] <jwormy> saerdna_, ooooooo he's a smarty pants...  read the topic

[01:51:46] <saerdna_> he wasnt pasting though

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[01:52:08] <saerdna_> but depends on how you define anything over 2 lines

[01:52:15] <ricky_clarkson> Cafe Americano - just means coffee with extra water

[01:52:42] <saerdna_> did you read about opera 9.0 TP? very nice

[01:52:47] <ricky_clarkson> Oddly a latte is more expensive than an americano with milk.

[01:52:52] <saerdna_> it almost passes acid2

[01:53:10] <cybereal> saerdna_: when is that coming out?

[01:53:11] <ricky_clarkson> saerdna_: Does it still segfault while I'm writing an email?

[01:53:13] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: I went for a drink that was served in a particular place.

[01:53:22] <saerdna_> ricky_clarkson: yes

[01:53:23] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Exciting.

[01:53:40] <saerdna_> ricky_clarkson: stick with elinks

[01:53:41] <saerdna_> :P

[01:53:42] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Huge glass of frappe coffee with chocolate and vodka

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[01:53:53] <ricky_clarkson> saerdna_: I use IE and FF.

[01:53:59] <Lars_G> IE!!!

[01:54:02] <Lars_G> Blaspheme

[01:54:06] <vinse> what a rebel

[01:54:08] <vinse> admitting that

[01:54:13] <ricky_clarkson> IE is great.

[01:54:19] <saerdna_> i use opera mainly but firefox too when developing css

[01:54:24] <ricky_clarkson> It's much more usable than FF.

[01:54:28] <ricky_clarkson> ~why not mozilla

[01:54:28] <javabot> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84128

[01:54:33] <saerdna_> opera is just soo fast

[01:54:40] <ricky_clarkson> The same problem applies to FF but the solution is slightly different.

[01:55:20] <cybereal> saerdna_: I'm using opera now; for irc, email and most website

[01:55:27] <cybereal> oh yeah and ress

[01:55:28] <cybereal> er rss

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[01:55:55] <ricky_clarkson> I use irssi for IRC, gmail and yahoo for email, in IE, and most websites in IE.

[01:56:14] <Lars_G> Hmm my foot is oozing loquid

[01:56:31] <vinse> Lars_G: ...

[01:56:38] <ricky_clarkson> The only thing I regularly use FF for is www.funkypool.com because IE tends to be unresponsive while adverts refresh.

[01:56:54] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Perhaps you have mistaken your foot for another part of your body.

[01:57:06] <Lars_G> vinse: My washign machine is broken, I've used the same socks for four weeks now, and it has caused blisters to form which ooze liquid

[01:57:26] <mohadib> gross

[01:57:26] <vinse> Lars_G: again i say

[01:57:27] <vinse> Lars_G: ...

[01:57:28] <cybereal> yikes

[01:57:28] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Wash in the sink.  I used to do that.

[01:57:35] <saerdna_> ricky_clarkson: you never tried to make a crossbrowser site layout with css?

[01:57:35] <vinse> yeah, they're jsut socks

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[01:57:43] <vinse> it's not like you're trying to dry clean a suit at home

[01:57:44] <Lars_G> vinse: I hate buying socks so I have only about 5 pairs whereas I have lots of other clean clothes.

[01:57:46] <Geren> i was looking at some examples of java threading

[01:57:48] <saerdna_> ie is just messed up rendering webstandars proper

[01:57:50] <ricky_clarkson> saerdna_: Yes, but not amazingly complicated.

[01:57:51] <mohadib> vinse: heh

[01:57:54] <vinse> Lars_G: WASH YOUR STINKY SOCKS

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[01:58:00] <saerdna_> because if its hasLayout flag n shit

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[01:58:13] <saerdna_> s/if/of

[01:58:17] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Good idea. but today I finished substituting the damaged machine brain for switches (meanwhile I design an electronic controller)

[01:58:22] <vinse> saerdna_: as a user, i dont give a shit about standards

[01:58:23] <Geren> and it seems that sometimes when a user writes a class that implements Runnable, he has inside the class a constructor that has Thread T; T=new Thread(this); T.start()

[01:58:26] <Geren> what is the point of that?

[01:58:34] <Geren> i mean why do u need to use Thread when u  r using Runnable?

[01:58:48] <Geren> it seems that he's starting a thread inside a Runnable

[01:58:51] <vinse> saerdna_: i understand complaining about it as a developer, but if better products can be made by deviating from standards, then by all means, do it

[01:58:52] <Lars_G> Geren: Carefull wih the aolbonics :)

[01:58:53] <mohadib> ~tell Geren about aolbonics

[01:58:53] <javabot> Geren, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201

[01:59:03] <Geren> i mean why do you need to use Thread when u  r using Runnable?

[01:59:07] <saerdna_> vinse: no, but as a user there are tons of features in opera and firefox which provides better usabillity than ie

[01:59:39] <Lars_G> ?? FF has a better rendering engine than IE does.

[02:00:03] <Lars_G> considering you use w3c approved or recommended stuff that is

[02:00:24] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Runnable is only an interface, it doesn't actually know anything about threads.

[02:00:36] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Thread knows how to make real threads.

[02:00:36] <vinse> most sites care way more that they work right on IE than whether they're up to w3c specs

[02:00:37] <Geren> ricky_clarkson, but i mean it has a run()

[02:00:42] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: So?

[02:00:43] <Geren> which your class will impelement

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[02:01:10] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: You can call that run() but that won't mean you're running that in a different thread.

[02:01:22] <ricky_clarkson> It's just a method, nothing special.

[02:01:25] <Lars_G> Hello slava

[02:01:33] <Geren> ricky_clarkson, so if you want to use runnable, you HAVE to declare a Thread object and start it?

[02:01:34] <slava> hello my furry little monkey

[02:01:45] <mohadib> slava: sup foo

[02:01:58] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20050925.html

[02:01:59] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: If you want to run the Runnable in another thread, yes.

[02:02:03] <slava> mohadib: waddup g

[02:02:05] * Lars_G makes monkey love to slava

[02:02:12] <Lars_G> eeek eeeek

[02:02:22] <Geren> ricky_clarkson, in anothe rthread? the whole point of using Runnable is to start another thread!!!!

[02:02:36] <Geren> i was told there are 2 ways to start a thread, Runnable or Thread

[02:02:44] <mohadib> no

[02:03:01] <Geren> like i can implement Runnable or Extend Thread

[02:03:03] <mohadib> you can extend runnable and ass it to a threads ctor or you can extend thread

[02:03:11] <mohadib> pass

[02:03:13] <mohadib> ;)

[02:03:25] <Geren> mohadib, so if i extend runnable, i MUST still declare a Thread???

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[02:03:42] <cybereal> Geren: NO

[02:03:46] <Geren> huh?

[02:03:47] <cybereal> Geren: well yes

[02:03:47] <Geren> confused

[02:03:49] <cybereal> Geren: sorta

[02:03:51] <Geren> ok

[02:03:56] <cybereal> Geren: rtfm damnit, it's a simple concept

[02:04:19] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Actually Runnable is just an interface, again, you can use it without starting a new thread.

[02:04:22] <Geren> but the Runnable itself also has a run(), so if i pass the runnable object to a Thread, then the Run() of my Runnable will be run in a separate thread, right?

[02:04:42] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Depends how yo start the run method.

[02:04:44] <cybereal> Geren: the 'run()' of your Runnable implementing object will be run in that new thread

[02:04:52] <Geren> cybereal, oh i see. thanks

[02:04:53] <ricky_clarkson> If you start it with thread.start() then yes.

[02:04:57] * Lars_G pukes over proftpd

[02:04:58] <ricky_clarkson> ~threads

[02:04:58] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, threads is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/essential/threads

[02:05:26] <Geren> oh so, if i use implement runnable, i have to do thread.start(). but i extend Thread, then i do thread.run() in my main

[02:05:41] <mohadib> no

[02:05:44] <mohadib> hehe almost

[02:05:45] <cybereal> it's always .start()

[02:05:48] <cybereal> to start the thread

[02:05:53] <Geren> oh

[02:05:57] <Geren> what about .run() ???

[02:06:00] <cybereal> Geren: read the API docs on Thread

[02:06:07] <Geren> its too complicatd

[02:06:11] <Geren> too much irrelevant info

[02:06:12] <cybereal> Geren: no, it's simple

[02:06:12] <mohadib> you neevr use it if you are rusing the runnable with a thread

[02:06:17] <cybereal> Geren: there is NO irrelevant info

[02:06:18] <Geren> ok

[02:06:20] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: start() starts a new Thread then calls run() in that new thread.

[02:06:28] <Geren> oh i see, that makes sense

[02:07:14] <Geren> also, during synchronization, we have synchronized as a keyword to a function, and we use wait() and notifyall()

[02:07:25] <Geren> then why do we still need a variable like available=false

[02:07:40] <Geren> i mean don't wait() notifyall() do the job of having a semaphore variable?

[02:07:44] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Sorry, crystal ball is faulty.

[02:07:50] <Geren> hmm?

[02:07:53] <cybereal> Geren: just so you can see how it all works together, Thread implements Runnable

[02:07:57] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Geren about threads

[02:07:57] <javabot> Geren, threads is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/essential/threads

[02:08:02] <Geren> ok

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[02:08:13] <Geren> anywway, this is all very nasty

[02:08:39] <cybereal> no, it's really very clean and easy

[02:08:51] <Geren> ok,

[02:09:04] <Geren> anyway, care to comment on my synchronization question?

[02:09:07] <cybereal> Make a class that impelements Runnable, instantiate it, construct a new Thread object like: new Thread(myRunnableClassInstance).start()

[02:09:09] <cybereal> how hard is that?

[02:09:18] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Sorry, crystal ball is faulty.

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[02:10:09] <Geren> 'what does that mean????

[02:10:24] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: I'm finding it difficult to imagine your code, which is clearly want you want me to do.

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[02:11:11] <Geren> cybereal, yes but the Thread object must be placed in the constructor of my class

[02:11:39] <cybereal> Geren: what's your point?

[02:12:03] <cybereal> Geren: Maybe you're not being clear

[02:12:50] <Geren> cybereal, i mean in my class, i need to place the Thread object instantiation and new Thread(this).start() inside the CONSTRUCTOR of my Runnable class

[02:13:01] <Geren> and then have a separate run() method

[02:13:43] <cybereal> Geren: why?

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[02:14:00] <cybereal> I mean, you can do that

[02:14:03] <cybereal> But why is that a problem?

[02:14:20] <cybereal> When the ctor is called the class is already instantiated

[02:14:26] <ricky_clarkson> Because he wants problems?

[02:14:59] <cybereal> geren makes me feel smart

[02:15:00] <ricky_clarkson> Ey gringo, I give you problem!  You sleep with my daughter, no you sleep with any woman again.

[02:15:52] <Geren> cybereal, i meant to say that those are the correct procedures, right?

[02:16:16] <cybereal> Geren: I don't know, I don't know your code

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[02:19:47] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Shouldn't you be done with the porridge already btw?

[02:19:56] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Poke cheeser into duty, and run away.

[02:20:05] <Lars_G> or was it pr3d4t0r who did the night duty? ;)

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[02:20:33] <ricky_clarkson> I forgot the porridge, going to bed now.

[02:20:38] <Lars_G> Sleep well.

[02:20:55] <ricky_clarkson> Just switched from my broadband to next door's wireless. ;)

[02:20:58] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Btw, scones... send me scones for my bday

[02:21:08] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: That, or some tea you consider really good

[02:21:13] <Lars_G> lol

[02:21:20] <ricky_clarkson> Scones would need loads of preservatives.

[02:21:22] <Lars_G> next-door-wireless is the best provider out there.

[02:21:39] <Lars_G> I haven't eaten a decent scone since mother passed away

[02:22:39] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Send me tea... an e-card would do too.

[02:22:40] <Lars_G> ;)

[02:22:40] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: You should go for real English tea, like Tetley, don't bother with the up-its-own-arse stuff like ?Earl Gray.

[02:23:00] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Oy, Sleep well.

[02:23:45] * ricky_clarkson sets alarm for 6 hours from now. ;(#

[02:23:56] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Been there for three weeks now.

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[02:25:36] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: What do you wake up to? radio? the tellytubbies?

[02:25:55] <slava> Lars_G: is there any way to not restart the machine after software updates on os x?

[02:25:59] <ricky_clarkson> Mobile phone beeping.

[02:26:00] <slava> this reminds me of windows, having to reboot all the time

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[02:26:29] <Lars_G> slava: Aye me too, saddly these that require it, require it.

[02:26:43] <Lars_G> slava: It's one of my few letdowns, I miss rebootless installs.

[02:26:56] <jwormy> yea i jsut tried to an array[3000000000] and it died after 18million.. and i'm pretty sure i'm gonna need to reboot

[02:27:04] <Lars_G> slava: If it's drivers, you might try to skip it, and load the module by hand, but I don't foresee success

[02:27:05] <cybereal> slava: lots of those updates include kernel changes

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[02:28:14] <Lars_G> Hmmm

[02:28:17] <Lars_G> why not B# ?

[02:28:27] <Lars_G> Anyhow. time to watch my series, and wind down.

[02:28:29] <Lars_G> be well you all.

[02:28:38] <jwormy> Lars_G, later

[02:28:41] <Lars_G> Latter.

[02:28:49] <Lars_G> jwormy: I'll answer a fresh batch latter

[02:28:55] <jwormy> lol

[02:28:56] <jwormy> ok

[02:29:17] <Lars_G> I'll ask about sandpaper in return.

[02:29:30] <jwormy> ooo tonights 80 grit night, prepare your lube boys!

[02:29:45] <Lars_G> Oh gods, 80 grit... eeew

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[02:29:59] <L----D> hi guys

[02:30:01] <Lars_G> I'm still trying to go over 600 grit

[02:30:07] <Lars_G> Bye

[02:30:08] <jwormy> L----D, hello

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[02:30:26] <slava> cybereal: why would a quicktime update require a kernel change?

[02:30:33] <slava> itunes and quicktime

[02:30:45] <cybereal> slava: that shouldn't

[02:30:50] <cybereal> those made you reboot?

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[02:31:12] <cybereal> they don't even make windows reboot

[02:31:55] <L----D> what do you think about Ruby

[02:32:03] <jwormy> L----D, oh geeze

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[02:34:22] <afaik> I'm modelling a mortgage application and... my data model... it's expansive

[02:34:32] <afaik> am I doing things right?

[02:34:46] <afaik> I mean, the data model alone is HUGE!

[02:34:56] <L----D> jwormy, i'm not very familiar with it

[02:35:00] <afaik> it boggles my mind

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[02:35:42] <L----D> jwormy, what's it's most advantage

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[02:39:04] <ramza3> hmm, some how I just created a 3gb textfile

[02:39:15] <ramza3> that script doesnt work

[02:39:26] <cybereal> hah nice

[02:39:55] <mohadib> ramza3: try to open it in gedit ;)

[02:39:58] <ramza3> hehe

[02:40:12] <ramza3> I wonder if it goes over 4GB the directory gets corrupted, I am on windows

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[02:40:26] <ramza3> win2k

[02:40:28] <cybereal> ntfs or fat32?

[02:40:32] <Honk^away> shouldnt happen, if you're using ntfs

[02:40:35] <cybereal> ntfs should be fine

[02:40:47] <cybereal> ntfs is a good fs; I'm pretty sure MS paid someone else to design it :)

[02:40:51] <ramza3> yea right, you guys are too optimistic

[02:41:22] <Honk^away> cybereal: ntfs would be good, if it was properly accessible from linux

[02:41:35] <Honk^away> =)

[02:41:50] <cybereal> Honk^away: there are ways to make it accessible

[02:42:00] <Kal-L> hmm..

[02:42:07] <ramza3> samba anyone?

[02:42:10] <cybereal> I wish someone would just write a real driver for ext3

[02:42:15] <Honk^away> cybereal: no really good ones though

[02:42:15] <cybereal> or reiser at least

[02:42:25] <Honk^away> cybereal: there's that reiser2 thingy

[02:42:26] <cybereal> Honk^away: the one that uses the native ntfs driver works well

[02:42:29] <Honk^away> urrh.. ext2

[02:42:31] <Honk^away> works great

[02:42:35] <ramza3> I am surprised samba to NTFS never crashes, works quite well on winxp anyway

[02:42:39] <Honk^away> cybereal: i heard it's slow ;)

[02:42:42] <cybereal> Honk^away: no, I want a real driver, not a crappy application that corrupts the fs when you try to write to it

[02:42:54] <Honk^away> cybereal: nah

[02:42:57] <Honk^away> there IS a real driver

[02:43:01] <cybereal> no there isn't

[02:43:03] <Honk^away> and it works quite perfect

[02:43:10] <Honk^away> i've got it installed :P

[02:43:14] <cybereal> pleas,e by all means show it to me

[02:44:01] <Honk^away> http://www.fs-driver.org/index.html

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[02:44:51] <cybereal> woo happy to be wrong!  So, how new is this?

[02:44:57] <Honk^away> no clue

[02:45:34] <Drone> View Kal-L's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8458

[02:45:39] <ramza3> ah emacs has a maximum buffer exceeded message, how lame

[02:45:46] <Honk^away> there's similar stuff for reiserfs too, but it doesnt exactly look usable yet ;)

[02:46:27] <cybereal> well at least there is one option

[02:46:34] <Honk^away> yeah

[02:46:48] <Honk^away> when someone showed that thingy to me, i was finally able to move from vfat to ext3 =)

[02:47:31] <cybereal> I hate vfat

[02:47:47] <Kal-L> someone check out my post when they get a sec

[02:47:48] <Honk^away> annoying, isnt it? ;)

[02:47:53] <Kal-L> only 16 lines

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[02:48:39] <Honk^away> Kal-L: yeah, that's some java code

[02:48:42] <Honk^away> great :)

[02:48:54] <Kal-L> lol

[02:49:05] <Kal-L> i mean tell me my prob

[02:49:06] <Kal-L> lol

[02:49:13] <Honk^away> you should tell us the problem

[02:49:15] <Kal-L> it's not appending anything to the text area

[02:49:35] <Honk^away> dont dispose of that ioexception silently =)

[02:49:57] <Kal-L> i won't

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[02:50:10] <Honk^away> you DO

[02:50:13] <Kal-L> i'll even add FileNotFound

[02:50:23] <cybereal> Kal-L: don't set it not editable

[02:50:24] <Honk^away> ...

[02:50:29] <Honk^away> {}

[02:50:36] <Honk^away> ^-- i cant see any output statement in there

[02:50:39] <Honk^away> cybereal: that doesnt matter

[02:50:44] <Honk^away> editable is for user input only

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[02:51:09] <Kal-L> yep

[02:51:13] <Honk^away> he's prolly getting some ioexception

[02:51:18] <cybereal> yeah that's what you'd think but I've seen dumber things :)

[02:51:21] <Kal-L> i'll check it

[02:52:08] <amphiboid> L----D: is it "LOGGED"?     :)

[02:52:37] <Kal-L> weird..

[02:52:41] <jwormy> afaik, about your mortgage program..

[02:52:44] <Kal-L> i add E.getMessage() and it started working

[02:53:12] <jwormy> afaik, the datamodels are gonna be huge for that..

[02:53:17] <jwormy> afaik, i  do the same stuff and uhh.. yeah...

[02:53:19] <cybereal> Kal-L: E should be e by convention

[02:53:28] <Kal-L> k

[02:53:42] <Honk^away> Kal-L: add e.printStackTrace() instead ;)

[02:53:56] <afaik> jwormy, you using mismo?

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[02:54:26] <afaik> I have my data model mapping to a MISMO Loan Application 2.3.1 compliant xml file ;)

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[03:15:56] <whyrph> so . . I want to print fairly large sections of the java api spec

[03:16:05] <whyrph> anyone got a link to a pdf version or something?

[03:16:35] <Honk^away> printing the api might be expensive :p

[03:16:47] <whyrph> I know, I'm not printing the whole thing

[03:17:05] <Honk^away> why do you want to print it anyway? =)

[03:17:06] <whyrph> but I AM printing enough that I would rather not have to do it by hand

[03:17:11] <whyrph> programming competition

[03:17:15] <cybereal> It'd be cheaper to buy a PDA to read the api on :)

[03:17:22] <whyrph> pda's would not be allowed

[03:17:45] <Honk^away> but shitloads of paper? :)

[03:17:48] <Honk^away> heh

[03:17:52] <whyrph> it's not MY paper

[03:18:05] <whyrph> I'm a university student

[03:18:05] <whyrph> :)

[03:18:10] <Honk^away> well.. i dont know any pdf for the api anyway

[03:18:33] <Honk^away> whyrph: so what?

[03:18:39] <Honk^away> how much can you print a day? :P

[03:19:00] <Honk^away> 50 pages? that'd be like 1-2 classes in javadoc =)

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[03:19:13] <whyrph> hmm . . true

[03:19:22] <Honk^away> printing the api really isnt gonna work

[03:19:30] <whyrph> I would like lots of java.util, though, specifically

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[03:19:42] <whyrph> I guess I could just print out the data structures

[03:19:46] <whyrph> but I might miss something

[03:19:55] <cybereal> whyrph: maybe you can buy a book? :)

[03:19:58] <FaeLLe> just read from the comp

[03:20:09] <FaeLLe> or the o rilley book on java covers a lot of API

[03:20:12] <FaeLLe> almost half the book

[03:20:21] <whyrph> they *might* have the api on the comps, I'm not sure

[03:20:38] <FaeLLe> a lot is an exagerration well lot of the useful stuff to be exact

[03:21:35] <Honk^away> whyrph: ask 'em? =)

[03:21:48] <ACDCJunior> How to know how many memory is under use?

[03:21:51] <whyrph> heh

[03:22:10] <Honk^away> ~javadoc runtime

[03:22:10] <javabot> Honk^away, please see java.lang.Runtime: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Runtime.html

[03:22:13] <javabot> Honk^away, please see org.omg.SendingContext.RunTime: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/org/omg/SendingContext/RunTime.html

[03:22:13] <Honk^away> yay :)

[03:22:52] <FaeLLe> we had an OMG company VP come to teach us CORBA the other day :/

[03:23:01] <FaeLLe> CORBA is so confusing...

[03:23:39] <Honk^away> i didnt plan to point to org.omg =)

[03:24:19] <FaeLLe> hehe

[03:25:27] <ACDCJunior> Is there a way to know how much memory my java program is using? I mean like a System.something method?

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[03:25:59] <Honk^away> ACDCJunior: did i just have javabot paste some classes?

[03:26:15] <Honk^away> is there any chance that one of 'em might be related to your problem?

[03:26:36] <ACDCJunior> Sorry, I didnt know you were talking to me

[03:26:53] <ACDCJunior> I'll check them out

[03:26:57] <FaeLLe> [02:10:59] <javabot> Honk^away, please see java.lang.Runtime: http:/...........

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[03:27:09] <FaeLLe> shouldve used ....

[03:27:15] <Honk^away> i dont like this javabot :P

[03:27:21] <Honk^away> way too complicated to use =D

[03:27:22] <FaeLLe> ~tell ACDCJunior about javadoc runtime

[03:27:22] <javabot> ACDCJunior, please see java.lang.Runtime: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Runtime.html

[03:27:24] <javabot> ACDCJunior, please see org.omg.SendingContext.RunTime: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/org/omg/SendingContext/RunTime.html

[03:28:00] <ACDCJunior> lol, it's nice though

[03:28:03] <bztunk> hey guys, what's a good reference book for java?

[03:28:16] <FaeLLe> ~tell bztunk about cup

[03:28:16] <javabot> bztunk, cup is a LALR parser generator for Java.  http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~appel/modern/java/CUP/

[03:28:22] <FaeLLe> hmm wrong

[03:28:25] <FaeLLe> ~firstcup

[03:28:26] <javabot> FaeLLe, firstcup is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/getStarted/cupojava

[03:28:26] <Honk^away> ACDCJunior: yeh, but you need a book about it to be ale to use it ;)

[03:28:30] <FaeLLe> ~tell bztunk about firstcup

[03:28:30] <javabot> bztunk, firstcup is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/getStarted/cupojava

[03:29:23] <bztunk> Which one to choose?

[03:29:35] <bztunk> And I already know java btw, I want something advanced

[03:29:36] <FaeLLe> the web is the best reference :)

[03:30:22] <Honk^away> api-bot Read some tutorial @ http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/

[03:30:24] <Honk^away> =)

[03:30:57] <ACDCJunior> Honk^away: I got the memory thing. Thank you! :D

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[03:32:50] <ACDCJunior> Hey, about java primitive types, short, int and long

[03:33:40] <ACDCJunior> In the JVMSpec, I dont know if I got it wrong, but the JVM seems to treat short, int and booleans as int

[03:34:37] <ACDCJunior> I was testing a bit, but short arrays ARE smaller than int arrays

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[03:36:07] <ACDCJunior> I mean, they consume less memory. And boolean[] even less. But the JVM could do some Ninja work an "look" at them in different ways. I mean, a int would be like a boolean[32].

[03:36:09] <Meghan> Hello guys.

[03:36:17] <Meghan> Can you help me with a few different things?

[03:36:26] <Meghan> Trying to learn Java here, I'd appreciate it ;)

[03:36:55] <ACDCJunior> Ok, this seems acceptable to me. But, if thats true, if you declare a "short foo", it would take as much memory as a "int foo". Does anybody follow me? :D

[03:37:14] <ACDCJunior> Meghan: shout it out, theres a lot of nice guys here

[03:37:23] <Budward> Meghan. Just ask your questions and maybe someone will answer you?

[03:37:28] <Meghan> Awesome, let me make some pastebins.

[03:37:36] <Budward> ACDCJunior is not a 'nice' guy.

[03:37:57] <ACDCJunior> Budward: what is it then?

[03:38:21] <Drone> View Meghan's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8459

[03:38:22] <Budward> A 'dangerous' something or other.

[03:38:43] <Meghan> Can someone tell me what this method does? http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8459

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[03:39:27] <Meghan> Oh, its automatic, neat.

[03:39:30] <amphiboid> ACDCJunior: representing boolean using "ninja work" would make it difficult for the JVM to comply to the spec when working with multiple threads...

[03:39:41] <Budward> it defines 2 arrays err 3 arrays conting an array list and a variable i

[03:39:50] <Budward> s/conting/counting

[03:40:09] <Meghan> Budward, but I see no loop, how is it counting them?

[03:40:14] <Budward> its not.

[03:40:17] <Budward> and second I am wrong

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[03:40:24] <Budward> sorry, I was being distracted

[03:40:28] <ACDCJunior> amphiboid: but how can it use less memory in boolean arrays?

[03:40:29] <Meghan> Thats alright.

[03:41:13] <ACDCJunior> amphiboid: cause I did some testing here, and that does happen

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[03:42:31] <amphiboid> ACDCJunior: I don't know how the JVMs are doing it...  The only time I needed to do "grunt work" with bits (representing ultra-packed informations, needing tens of Mb of "bit arrays"), I did the "ninja work" myself.  Shifting, etc.

[03:43:57] <ACDCJunior> amphiboid: hm. But the JVM does treat boolean, byte, short and int as int on its operations, doesnt it?

[03:45:26] <amphiboid> ACDCJunior: wait, you use the word "treat" but you mean "represent"?  (as in "memory representation)  Because the JVM won't let you use a boolean as if it was an int (though it will promote byte and short on some occasion).

[03:46:35] <Drone> View Meghan's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8460

[03:46:43] <Budward> Meghan, so what is your question?

[03:46:54] <ACDCJunior> amphiboid: yeh, I guess I mean "represent". Let me get the site thats making me see things this way;

[03:47:21] <Meghan> Does this one simply find the length of the array, and then if num matches it returns the part that matches it?

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[03:47:48] <Meghan> Budward, also, I read somewhere that you are supposed to use .length without the ()'s because its not a method.

[03:48:00] <Meghan> However, here I see it used as .length();

[03:48:21] <Budward> Meghan, .length is a feature of java that gives you the 'length' of the array.

[03:48:41] <Meghan> I know, the question is how do you properly use it?

[03:49:05] <ramza3> I would encourage every employee to work 30 hours straight at least once, then an 8 hour day is nothing

[03:49:20] <Budward> for example: for( int i = 0; i < array.length; i++)

[03:49:32] <Budward> array being the name of your array of course.

[03:49:48] <Budward> that way, you will not got out of bounds.

[03:50:11] <ACDCJunior> amphiboid: I cant find the website. Seems I have to buy a book now...

[03:50:13] <Budward> meaning over the size of the array.

[03:50:16] <whyrph> I think she just wants to know if .length is valid, .length() is valid, or both

[03:51:36] <Meghan> Ah.

[03:51:40] <Meghan> Exactly.

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[03:51:52] <Meghan> So which is it?

[03:52:46] <Meghan> does array.length work exactly the same way as array.length() method?

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[03:55:51] <Budward> Meghan, were you able to compile that using array.length()?

[03:55:51] <ACDCJunior> amphiboid: I got it trough google's cache.

[03:56:00] <ACDCJunior> see: http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:xhpD0ZQsSKwJ:java.sun.com/docs/books/vmspec/2nd-edition/html/Concepts.doc.html

[03:56:02] <Budward> Or did you get an error?

[03:56:14] <ACDCJunior> amphiboid: see 2.4.5

[03:56:24] <Meghan> I haven't compiled it, but got an error once.

[03:56:36] <Meghan> However my teacher keeps using it with the ()'s.

[03:56:57] <Budward> maybe as an array object.

[03:57:00] <Budward> ?

[03:57:41] <cybereal> Are you talking about arrays length member?

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[03:57:45] <cybereal> a regular array only has .length

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[03:58:28] <Meghan> So .length will return the allocated space in the array cybereal ?

[03:58:32] <Budward> as well as .remove .clear .join .concat

[03:58:38] <cybereal> Meghan: yes

[03:58:43] <Meghan> Alright.

[03:58:59] <cybereal> it's a final static; it's defined when the array is allocated

[03:59:05] <cybereal> that is why it's not a method

[03:59:46] <Meghan> Ah, then why is my teacher using ()'s all the time?

[04:00:01] <cybereal> is he using arrays? or ArrayList objects?

[04:00:09] <cybereal> well I think those use .size() anyway...

[04:00:12] <cybereal> maybe your teacher is a moron

[04:01:00] <Meghan> We haven't learned anything but arrays.

[04:01:07] <Meghan> I don't know if he is.

[04:01:14] <amphiboid> ACDCJunior: yup, it is not treating a boolean as an int...  It says that if you want to consider that "any non zero value means true", you can evaluate the expression "x != 0"...     Section 3.3.4 "The boolean type" might be what you're looking for though

[04:01:38] <ACDCJunior> amphiboid: yeahh! I was about to say that to you

[04:01:47] <amphiboid> ACDCJunior: :)

[04:01:49] <Drone> View Meghan's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8461

[04:01:56] <Meghan> Can someone tell me what this does?

[04:02:11] <Meghan> As in what the program result/function is?

[04:03:21] <amphiboid> Meghan: you're sure that the second for loop (the 'j' one) should use "i = i + 1" and not "j = j + 1" ?

[04:03:39] <Meghan> I wondered too, but thats what he wrote.

[04:04:06] <Meghan> He has j=i+1 and then j=j+1

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[04:05:19] <amphiboid> Meghan: but you realize that if numbers[] has two elements or more this program will loop endlessly?

[04:05:32] <Meghan> The second loop counts duplicates right?

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[04:05:37] <ACDCJunior> amphiboid: so, in conclusion, do you think a boolean *variable* would take as much memory as an int? OR you think it takes less and is converted when an operation is to be applied?

[04:05:39] <Meghan> Hmm.

[04:06:12] <Meghan> amphiboid, agreed, j is not incrementing.

[04:07:03] <Meghan> I fixed that, so normally it should count the duplicates right?

[04:07:32] <whyrph> acdc: I don't think it's converted at all

[04:07:51] <amphiboid> ACDCJunior: what I think: a boolean takes a byte (and a boolean[] takes a byte[]), ie 8 times the space "normally" needed, and upon "loading" it takes an int.  But that's just a feeling, I haven't looked very much into it.  All I can tell: I needed to represent millions and millions of bits, I packed them myself in a long[] (yup, long[], not int, for it was to run on a 64 bit machine and I thought that it would be more efficient)

[04:07:52] <Meghan> And then if there are more dupes than 0 it returns that as max.

[04:08:03] <whyrph> assembly has nice load byte and load word instructions

[04:08:21] <whyrph> that would make comparing them not require anything special

[04:08:37] * mohadib slaps jwormy with a midsize crawldad

[04:08:50] <amphiboid> ACDCJunior: so, if you need to do lots of bit work, do the "ninja work" yourself.  If you don't, don't pay attention, don't take care: "premature optimization bla bla bla"   :)

[04:10:06] <mohadib> heh

[04:10:11] * mohadib laughs evily

[04:10:22] <ACDCJunior> amphiboid: ohh, i see... :D thank you for the thoughts, and by the way, do you have any good reference for working with bits? I know those >> << & |.. exist, but I know almost nothing about them

[04:10:28] * Meghan sighs at the lack of attention :/

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[04:14:21] <Geren> hi

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[04:14:28] <Geren> are there destructors for classes in java?

[04:14:31] <mohadib> Geren: HY

[04:14:36] <cybereal> Geren: no

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[04:14:46] <Geren> ok

[04:14:48] <Geren> but C++ does

[04:14:53] <mohadib> Geren: no but you have a finalize method thay may or may not be called

[04:14:54] <cybereal> Java is not C++

[04:14:56] <Geren> why does C++ need it but java doesnt?

[04:15:07] <Geren> what about java that eliminates the need for destructors

[04:15:11] <Geren> is it java's garbage collection?

[04:15:13] <mohadib> cause java has GC

[04:15:15] <Geren> ok

[04:15:17] <cybereal> yes garbage

[04:15:36] <mohadib> ~tell Geren about finalize

[04:15:36] <javabot> Geren, finalize is Called by the garbage collector on an object when garbage collection determines that there are no more references to the object. A subclass overrides the finalize method to dispose of system resources or to perform other cleanup.

[04:15:39] <Meghan> Take out the trash biatch ;)

[04:15:53] <mohadib> word

[04:16:19] * mohadib pretends to work (even though he is home)

[04:16:37] <Geren> what are some major differences between java and c, other than the obvious garbage collection and java not running in binary code.

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[04:16:52] <Geren> what are some less obvious but very important differences?

[04:16:52] <Budward> mohadib tell him how often finalize is used.

[04:17:00] <mohadib> never

[04:17:04] <mohadib> that i have seen

[04:17:05] <mohadib> :p

[04:17:24] <jpeda> Hi. Has anyone experiences with UTF8 characters in javafiles? In Windows it works but in linux it doesn't and I don't know why.

[04:17:29] <Budward> it's referenced about 50 x in teh java API :)

[04:17:35] <mohadib> jpeda: ?

[04:17:48] <mohadib> ~tell jpeda about smart questions

[04:17:48] <javabot> jpeda, smart questions is what you need to ask to understand a smart answer. See http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

[04:17:48] <Budward> hah? wth?

[04:18:14] <Budward> ~tell mohadib about dumb questions

[04:18:15] <javabot> mohadib, I guess the factoid 'smart questions' might be appropriate:

[04:18:17] <javabot> mohadib, smart questions is what you need to ask to understand a smart answer. See http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

[04:18:25] <Budward> :P

[04:18:39] <amphiboid> Geren: Java is really both "Java the language" and "Java the Virtual Machine"...  And the JVM is bullet-proof: basically, not a single buffer overflow/overrun since it exists. That's one *major* difference with C/C++/Whatever.

[04:19:02] <Budward> Geren, maybe you need to read up on structural programming and OOP.

[04:19:30] <Budward> One really cool thing about c and java ....

[04:19:46] <Budward> C used printf in the 80's and java just implemnted it this year?

[04:19:50] <jpeda> sorry for my bad english. I want a file "Töst.java" or something like that. A filename that has a special character in its name. In Windows that compiles fine. In Linux javac says "error: cannot read: T?st.java"

[04:19:55] <Budward> err implemented as well.

[04:20:08] <Geren> Budward, no i dont mean c and java, i mean c++ and java, and c++ has OOP as well

[04:20:19] <amphiboid> Budward: yup!   There was a funny blog on this :)

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[04:21:06] <Budward> <Geren> what are some major differences between java and c, other than the obvious

[04:21:06] <Budward>           garbage collection and java not running in binary code.

[04:21:17] <Budward> c != C++

[04:21:27] <Budward> but anyway...

[04:21:54] <Budward> Maybe if it was more to the point it would have been a clearer answer?

[04:22:16] <Budward> Like since java has garbage collection is it nescessary to deconstruct a constructor.

[04:22:29] <Budward> but anyway, I am vague and generalize way to much.

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[04:23:41] <Geren> i meant to say C++, sorry

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[04:25:13] <Drone> View Meghan's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8463

[04:25:24] <Meghan> What does this method do? Can't see the big picture here :/

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[04:26:20] * mohadib makes Swing grab his belt loop

[04:26:44] <cybereal> it would generate an error

[04:26:51] <mohadib> I own swing now , so all you other chumps go find some new pasture

[04:27:00] <cybereal> unless that 3 at the first line is a typo

[04:27:45] <amphiboid> Meghan: is this your homework?

[04:27:45] <Meghan> cybereal, ok, but otherwise what is the big picture of this program?

[04:27:50] <Meghan> What is it designed to do?

[04:27:58] <Meghan> amphiboid, I just have to learn how to read code.

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[04:28:14] <Meghan> I can see all the small bits and describe them, but I don't see a big picture here.

[04:28:42] <cybereal> Meghan: it looks like a convoluted method of concatenating two arrays

[04:28:46] <amphiboid> Meghan: it concatenates the two lists into a third one, that has the size of list a + list b.

[04:29:00] * Meghan hrms.

[04:29:16] * Meghan stares at it for a while.

[04:31:45] <amphiboid> Meghan: you can remove the "&& (b<lenb)"     Maybe it will make it easier to understand (and it doesn't change anything)

[04:32:11] <Meghan> But guys, if the values of the args are positive then the first one's value will be added or the second one right?

[04:32:47] <Meghan> I have to move the laptop, no wireless.

[04:32:54] <Meghan> I'll be back in a sec.

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[04:34:40] <uto32> How can I center the components in a javax.swing.BoxLayout ?

[04:34:52] <Geren> hi

[04:34:55] <Geren> a question :P

[04:34:57] <Geren> You are given an array with integers between 1 and 1,000,000. One integer is in the array twice. How can you determine which one? Can you think of a way to do it using little extra memory.

[04:39:03] <cybereal> Geren: just iterate the array for each entry in the array until you find it.

[04:39:23] <uto32> How can I center the components in a javax.swing.BoxLayout ?

[04:39:59] <Geren> cybereal, that's terribly inefficient,

[04:40:05] <Geren> is there a clever way?

[04:40:14] <cybereal> no efficient way without lots of memory use

[04:40:40] <cybereal> if you think sorting first would be more efficient, then do that

[04:41:23] <Geren> cybereal, ok what is ur  best way

[04:41:54] <amphiboid> Geren: can you sort the array?   Very inefficient, but no external memory: like cybereal said.  Two for loops O(n^2) complexity.  You can have O(n) complexity with an additional bit array as long as your int array.  Or you can sort it (n log (n)) then do an O(n) lookup.  Maybe the best "trade off" depending on the contest/course/whatever

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[04:45:38] <Meghan> Back for more...

[04:46:26] <Geren> no

[04:46:31] <Geren> how about the pigeon hole principle

[04:46:57] <eidolon> YEEEEEARRRGGGHHHH!

[04:47:00] <eidolon> that problem i've been whining about?

[04:47:11] <eidolon> it doesn't happen if i use MySQL as the database engine.  (not HSQLDB)

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[04:52:37] <The_Ball> what kind of Container do I need to put a BufferedImage in to be able to add() it to a gui?

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[04:54:10] <Meghan> Hmm.

[04:56:44] <Meghan> So this one I don't get either, the bigger picture.

[04:57:25] <Drone> View Meghan's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8464

[04:57:35] <Meghan> Any ideas as to what the bigger pic- here is?

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[04:58:06] <Meghan> Why even have a bloody method that takes 3 args and returns the third :/

[04:58:44] <nater> meghan: who's code are you looking at?

[04:58:57] <Meghan> My teacher's.

[04:59:19] <nater> page loading...

[04:59:23] <Meghan> k

[05:00:16] <nater> it looks like its acting on them

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[05:00:43] <Meghan> Whats the bigger pic though?

[05:01:56] <amphiboid> Meghan: this code won't compile... You cannot redefine variable "list" when it's already a parameter to the method.

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[05:03:01] <Meghan> amphiboid, ok, didn't know that.

[05:03:20] <Meghan> However if you fix that what would be the end result?

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[05:03:50] <vinse> England expects that every man will do his duty!

[05:04:04] <nater> meghan: plug in some filler variables and run through it

[05:04:09] <Meghan> Doesnt any country?

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[05:04:50] <Meghan> Umm, nater can't you just tell by reading it? Or let me rephrase, isn't a java programmer supposed to be able to read this as is?

[05:05:54] <amphiboid> Meghan: there's three call to "Mistery0", but the return value of Mistery0 is not used.  So you can remove those three lines, for a start (unless Mistery0 has a sideboard effect on the int[] passed as a parameter to Mistery4, which would be heresy).

[05:06:11] <amphiboid> Meghan: no, because it's uber crappy code...

[05:06:17] <Meghan> lol

[05:06:26] <Meghan> So I'm not nuts.

[05:06:36] <amphiboid> Meghan: full of bugs and non-sense...

[05:06:41] <Meghan> I'd like to figure this out though.

[05:06:50] <Meghan> He's trying to mislead me? :/

[05:07:37] <nater> he's either trying to mislead you, or he's trying to see how well you can step through stuff and figure it out

[05:07:37] <Meghan> You're right the outcome of the mystery0 method is not stored anywhere.

[05:07:40] <Meghan> Its just blah.

[05:07:43] <nater> or he doesn't know what he's doing

[05:07:48] <Meghan> Hehe.

[05:07:49] <amphiboid> Meghan: I think that the "Mistery0" calls are there to mislead you, and you can safely ignore them

[05:08:03] <Meghan> k

[05:08:34] <Meghan> True, I'm dumb. Functions should almost always be stored to a var or something.

[05:08:42] <Meghan> Unless its just void.

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[05:10:17] <Meghan> So in the while "if the length of list is equal or greater than one..." execute the if

[05:10:38] <amphiboid> Meghan:  in Java they're not called "functions" but "methods".

[05:10:43] <Meghan> Which checks the array list at the location lt, which is "1" and thus the second position.

[05:10:46] <Meghan> True.

[05:10:54] <Meghan> I'm used to calling them functions :P

[05:10:56] <Meghan> Sorry.

[05:11:06] <amphiboid> Meghan: it gives back the index of the first element of the list[] greater than list[0]

[05:11:47] <Meghan> Wow, thanks.

[05:11:53] <Meghan> Let me go over this again and try to see that.

[05:11:59] <Meghan> Its that gt=gt-1 right?

[05:13:25] <Meghan> so gt is thinning out until its down to the first element?

[05:13:52] * Meghan nods to self.

[05:13:54] <nater> i'm writing what each line actually does in there meghan... hold on

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[05:14:03] <Meghan> Alright.

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[05:17:31] <amphiboid> Meghan: I wrote "it gives back the index of the first element of the list[] greater than list[0]" but on second look, it may be the index of the element *before* the first element of the list[] greater than list[0] (typical "off by one" error I'm making :)

[05:17:55] <Meghan> Hmm.

[05:18:04] * Meghan ponders with her lower processor.

[05:18:49] <Meghan> I'm confused, don't all arrays start at 0? So there should be no element before that.

[05:18:54] <nater> still typing... its a giant clusterfuck

[05:18:59] <Meghan> hehe

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[05:20:55] <stavrogin> hi, anyone is familiar with the SUN petStore internals?, i have some questions about this. (is this the right channel for this?)

[05:22:16] <amphiboid> Meghan: which is why lt starts at 1...  So gt will never be less than 0.

[05:22:47] <Meghan> Alright.

[05:22:51] * Meghan goes over it again.

[05:24:34] <pr3d4t0r> Good evening.

[05:24:47] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r!

[05:24:48] <keyhack> ;-)

[05:24:55] <Meghan> So l33t.

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[05:25:03] <Meghan> Good evening your l33tn3ss.

[05:25:03] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack!

[05:25:07] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r!

[05:25:09] <keyhack> lol

[05:25:29] <amphiboid> hey pr3d!

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[05:25:42] <pr3d4t0r> amphiboid: Greetings.

[05:26:07] <pr3d4t0r> amphiboid: Quick, start saying something or keyhack is going to ambush me again about web services, SOAP, and etc. etc.

[05:26:08] <Meghan> Sp amphiboid your final answer was that the index is the one before the 2nd element? (as in location 1) ?

[05:26:29] * keyhack stops typing his long message

[05:26:37] * keyhack begins to cry

[05:26:40] * Meghan steals keyhack's buffer.

[05:26:55] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: I have no questions

[05:27:13] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: I was going to tell you something that you'd disagree with and shake your head :-)

[05:27:14] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: After doing the XSD and WSDL by hand (and got it work), and auto-generating my Java classes, I've decided that its best to have the WSDL be generated when I deploy the .class file using .wsdd files :-), makes life simple for now. I understand how it could get to a point where the WSDL (and its respective datatypes) might not be entirely cross-platform.

[05:27:16] <keyhack> :-)

[05:27:16] <Meghan> No, no, wen't over it, he had a big silly question.

[05:27:19] <Meghan> :P

[05:27:26] <Meghan> Told ya.

[05:27:59] <amphiboid> Meghan: damn... You're not reading what I write correctly.   Apparently it gives the index of the element before the first element greater than the first element of the array (is that clear?).  And I add: I'm *not* helping for Mystery5,6,7 or whatever ;)

[05:28:09] <Meghan> Sorry ;.;

[05:28:12] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Well, if you don't have interoperability issues, you shouldn't be doing SOAP/web services.  You should be doing RMI.

[05:28:21] <Meghan> k

[05:28:38] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Well, PHP would have to plug in, and it's always an option of 3rd party development as well

[05:29:01] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: OKi.

[05:29:05] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Whatever works.

[05:29:10] <keyhack> lol

[05:29:36] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: If you start from your Java classes --> WSDL, chances are good that you won't interoperate well with .Net

[05:29:47] <amphiboid> Meghan: as in    5,3,2,1,7,4,8,9    the first element is '5', the first element greater than '5' is '7', so Mystery4 gives '3', which is the index of the element before '7' (I *think*).

[05:29:56] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: And those are going to be the consumer/services that matter when the time comes.

[05:30:03] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: What would not work going backwards from Java->WSDL using the Axis WSDD, I've tested it using complex objects (the Book containing arrays of Authors, etc), and the WSDL seemed to be generated just fine (the same fashion I would have done it by hand, just, instantly)

[05:30:23] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: And mainly this API is for internal use only

[05:30:36] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: This would never be exposed to online clients

[05:30:41] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Something being for internal use only is no reason for being sloppy.

[05:30:53] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: It's a Zen thing.  Either you do a good job all the way or you don't.

[05:31:10] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Well generating 40+ lines of XML for a single method is kind of pain staking especially when 90% of it is in the same manor

[05:31:32] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Automate that somewhat; you can probably figure out how.

[05:31:52] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Just try to start with the XSD --> WSDL --> Java, not the other way around.

[05:31:58] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: I did.

[05:32:02] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: And I said I got it to work

[05:32:10] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: OKi, so then carry on.

[05:32:18] <Meghan> amphiboid, input appreciated, I hate dealing with broken code while trying to learn how to program.

[05:32:32] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Up to the point where it generated my Server object, but the fact of doing that all over again, over and over, for new methods and whatnot, seems like a lot of wasted time in coding two XML files by hand

[05:32:59] <Meghan> When its my own code I have a sense for it, easier to track what it does of course, and the bugs.

[05:33:44] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: What two XML files?  At most you should only have to worry about the XSD.

[05:33:51] <keyhack> the XSD, and the WSDL

[05:34:15] <Meghan> I'm currently using textpad for simple stuff, what IDE do you guys use?

[05:34:19] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: You don't need to screw with the WSDL.

[05:34:45] <keyhack> the WSDL you have to define the request, response, the message, each method and what messages it takes, the SOAP binding, the portType, and the binding

[05:34:58] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: The whole point of separating XSD and WSDL is precisely NOT having to touch everything.

[05:35:02] <keyhack> But I thought you had said that going from Java->WSDL would cause issues

[05:35:14] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Yeah, Java --> WSDL causes most issues.

[05:35:29] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Then how would I have WSDL's that I didn't write?

[05:35:48] <cored> lo pr3d4t0r

[05:35:55] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: You write your WSDL *once*.,

[05:36:10] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Define a Request and a Response method, stubs, ports, etc.

[05:36:20] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Add an import statement for the XSD.

[05:36:27] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Right, which is what I did

[05:36:39] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Put that in a web server reacheable by your development tools and never dick with it again.

[05:36:54] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: And to do that, for every method I'd ever want to code is a lot of work, and its conflicting when one second you said not to touch the WSDL and then later on say I have to lol

[05:37:20] * pr3d4t0r smacks keyhack

[05:37:48] <Meghan> What does this do? num = rand.nextInt( 11 ) + 15;

[05:38:21] <Meghan> Given Random rand = new Random(); above it.

[05:38:22] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: You're driving me nuts because you're not thinking things through.  You're just hacking through code, not viewing the system as a whole.

[05:38:46] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Normally you'd define your services with a single request/response per URL.

[05:38:47] <Meghan> It creates a random of course, but, I don't understand what the arg 11 does exactly.

[05:38:48] <nater> meghan: figure that one i'm working on out? its hard to explain a lot of that crap

[05:38:49] <keyhack> I'm trying to think things through, I'm going through books and online resources and chatting with you and after each conversation the role of everything seems to shift on me

[05:38:57] <Meghan> And why there's +15 after it.

[05:39:03] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Right, and in turn thats a WSDL for each URL, correct?

[05:39:13] <Meghan> nater, not fully, no.

[05:39:24] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: http://www.mycompany.com/services/billing/BillingOperation.wsdl

[05:39:28] <Drone> That URL gave the following error code: 404 Not Found

[05:39:34] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Yeah.

[05:39:35] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Yes, I follow that.

[05:39:48] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: And every time you want to make a method available remotely, you need to define it in the WSDL. Correct?

[05:39:55] <Meghan> http://www.pr0nmaster.com

[05:39:58] <Drone> That URL gave the following error: java.net.UnknownHostException, www.pr0nmaster.com

[05:40:00] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: So you create a WSDL skeleton/template that defines something like Request and Response methods; everything else stays the same.

[05:40:01] <Meghan> :P

[05:40:03] <Meghan> Nice.

[05:40:11] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: No, the second assumption is incorrect.

[05:40:58] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: If you have billing and client lists, for example, you'd have to URIs:  /services/billing/BillingOperation.wsdl and /services/clients/ClientLists.wsdl

[05:41:01] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Well that is what I gathered based on re-reading your presentation and looking at online examples, that there is a respective Request/Response <message> tag for each method available, as well as a PortType and Binding

[05:41:12] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Yeah.

[05:41:17] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Right...

[05:41:30] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: So make your life simple by keeping only one Request/Response per WSDL.  Replicate the WSDL files.

[05:41:43] <nater> meghan: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8465

[05:41:51] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: You can even use something like M4 to generate the WSDLs from a template.  Easy.

[05:41:56] * Meghan peeks

[05:41:59] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Isn't copying/pasting evil? lol

[05:42:15] <pr3d4t0r> jbalint: No worries :)

[05:42:45] <nater> thats an evil bit of code btw.... there are better ways to do that

[05:42:46] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: I didn't say copy/paste.

[05:42:47] <mohadib> does anyone know roughly how many hits a second apache can stand for small html pages with no pics on moder hardware (two fast xeons , scsi , 6 gigs of ram)

[05:42:52] <keyhack> "Replicate"

[05:42:56] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: I said define a template and use something like M4 to resolve it.

[05:43:01] <Meghan> nater, thanks a lot :)

[05:43:16] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Or a Java parser.  Or awk.  Or sed.  Or whatever.

[05:43:19] <nater> meghan: i might be off by one or two, i was more concerned with getting the actually gist of it than being exact

[05:43:39] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: But not a .wsdd

[05:43:42] <nater> and double check my reasoning... i've been known to be wrong before... a lot

[05:43:51] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: That's not much different from what Websphere RSA does for generating its WSDL files and associated gack.

[05:43:55] <Meghan> nater, any clue how the random class is used?

[05:44:03] <nater> link?

[05:44:04] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: No, not a deployment descriptor.

[05:44:14] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: You generate those from WSDL2Java.

[05:44:16] <nater> or is this just a general question?

[05:44:30] <Meghan> ex num = rand.nextInt( 11 ) + 15; given that Random rand = new Random();

[05:44:41] <pr3d4t0r> OKi gang, see you later.  Time to do some real work.

[05:44:49] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: WSDL2Java generates .wsdd's? Since when

[05:44:50] <Meghan> I'll re-do that tomorrow with a clear coffee-free head.

[05:45:01] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Since always.  RTFM.

[05:45:07] <Meghan> I need to figure out what the args passed to rand exactly mean.

[05:45:31] <Meghan> And what is the range of acceptable args, ex [0,maxnr] ?

[05:45:42] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: It's in my presentation too.

[05:46:01] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Get the latest one; I didn't realize that two slides had overlapping content.

[05:46:08] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Slides 22 and 26 were wrong.

[05:46:12] <nater> he wants a random whole number between 15 and 26

[05:46:52] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: So now there now 22 -> 22, 23;  and 26 -> 27, 28

[05:47:01] <Meghan> But then he uses the argument (100)

[05:47:14] <Meghan> And in the comments says that thats 0 to 99

[05:47:31] <Meghan> Thus I'm assuming the class starts from 0 too.

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[05:47:46] <nater> meghan, can i pm you?

[05:47:54] <Meghan> Sure.

[05:48:09] <nater> i'm getting sick of trying to find your text in here when switching between stuff

[05:48:17] <Meghan> Hehe, lots of noise, I know.

[05:48:48] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: ok...

[05:49:08] <keyhack> yeah, I had that one

[05:50:26] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: And when I ran WSDL2Java, it only generated the .java files, I never saw any .wsdd's  (and your presentation does not show the exec'ing of the command)

[05:51:04] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Yes, it does.

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[05:52:18] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Slide no. 19

[05:52:35] <The_Ball> I'm trying to draw an image but nothing apears in the GUI, have I left out something obvious? -> http://rafb.net/paste/results/LOiML722.html

[05:52:38] <keyhack> Right, I see a directory listing

[05:52:46] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Slide no. 21 shows you which command line arguments were passed to WSDL2Java.

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[05:54:30] <keyhack> hmpf. would you look at that

[05:57:38] <eidolon> you know what.  i think the <sleep seconds=... > function in 'ant' is doing something stupid like spinning clock cycles or something.

[05:57:52] <eidolon> the system seems awfully b usy when i'm having a 10 second sleep going.

[05:58:11] * pr3d4t0r ponders taking draconian measures regarding keyhack's web services education.

[05:58:59] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: I have a pretty damn good grasp of how everything should work, but do not say there is no learning curve in actually pulling all of this together. XSD's, WSDL's, then generation of all these classes, then implementing the Impl.java files, and running through Axis, etc. It takes time to soak it all in

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[06:02:23] <eidolon> jeezus, this week's evening entertainment has been the keyhack and pr3d show.

[06:02:29] * eidolon sinks back into idleness.

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[06:02:47] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: It also takes some reading ;)

[06:02:58] <_56k> god i am so annoyed

[06:03:28] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: And that I am doing, reading, researching, I got several books from people but they are also somewhat abstract and do not dive in the level of detail to pull everything off at the level you speak of, a lot of them encourage using the scripts you are against, and I am for doing things the right way

[06:03:29] <pr3d4t0r> _56k: You look troubled, my son.

[06:03:59] <_56k> eh hell, i am

[06:04:01] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: It'll all come together soon enough

[06:04:07] <_56k> is there a java paste bin

[06:04:09] <_56k> koz i give up

[06:04:28] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: I got the .wsdd's now :-), and I also see my GetServerInfoSOAPBindingImpl.java, too :-)

[06:04:29] <_56k> oh,,, nm

[06:04:32] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell _56k about pastebin

[06:04:32] <javabot> _56k, Paste your code, preferably a test case, any errors, and any other relevant information into the pastebin and tell us the URL: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin

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[06:05:07] <eidolon> axis requires detailed reading of the axis docs.  slowly.  unfortnately.  but it clicks through.

[06:05:15] <Drone> View _56k's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8467

[06:05:25] <_56k> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8467

[06:05:37] <_56k> ah, lol

[06:05:59] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: And for the client side, they would also use the WSDL to generate their appropriate classes (in my case also Java), and then write a separate .java file to use Call() and whatnot using my Server.java object, etc, to call on my services. Unless you're going to tell me WSDL2Java creates client-side calling code as well

[06:06:02] * keyhack ducks

[06:06:21] <vessuvius> Is there a good java/jsp blog engine out there? (preferably gpl'd) I've been using wordpress, but I want a java solution

[06:06:23] <_56k> no errors, besides the logic error somewhere

[06:07:40] <_56k> the application next()s words in from a text file, chooses a random one to play hangman with

[06:07:40] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r

[06:07:50] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Yes, it does.

[06:07:55] <keyhack> ut oh!

[06:07:56] * keyhack runs

[06:07:58] *** pr3d4t0r sets mode: +b %_56k!*@*

[06:08:03] *** pr3d4t0r sets mode: -b %_56k!*@*

[06:08:07] *** pr3d4t0r sets mode: -b %keyhack!*@*

[06:08:12] <_56k> uhh.. ?

[06:08:16] <Meghan> ?

[06:08:16] <_56k> :)

[06:08:35] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Give us some peace for a while.  Take these moments of silence to read the WSDL2Java documentation and to figure out what it does.

[06:08:48] * pr3d4t0r flashes an evil grin.

[06:09:11] <_56k> but yeah, the problem

[06:09:22] <keyhack> And the doc is where?

[06:09:30] <pr3d4t0r> _56k: You were in the line of fire; never mind.

[06:09:36] <keyhack> :-p

[06:09:39] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Google.  Apache.

[06:09:46] *** pr3d4t0r sets mode: +b %keyhack!*@*

[06:09:51] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Enjoy the reading.

[06:10:15] * pr3d4t0r goes to make diner.  Confit de canard.

[06:10:19] <tang^> vesuv: roller or blojsom

[06:10:48] <_56k> oh hell i dont even know how to explain it

[06:11:40] <vessuvius> thnx tang

[06:12:38] <_56k> god, im so mad

[06:12:41] <_56k> i need to cool down

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[06:13:15] <pr3d4t0r> In case anybody cares to RTFM about how to make confit de canard:  http://www.servicevie.com/01Alimentation/recette/Rf_HTML/HTML_4100/4198b.html

[06:13:18] <pr3d4t0r> Cheers.

[06:13:31] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Chinguémonos un par de piernas de pato.

[06:13:44] 

[06:13:44] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Con salsa de grosellas y manzana.

[06:13:58] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Cebollitas dulces y papitas.

[06:14:07] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: (horneadas).

[06:14:11] <Amnesiac> pr3d4t0r, de donde chingados sacas esa comida? :P

[06:14:20] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: I'm about to cook it.

[06:14:46] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: http://www.servicevie.com/01Alimentation/recette/Rf_HTML/HTML_4100/4198b.html -- this one has pears.

[06:14:52] <Amnesiac> :O

[06:14:58] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: I'm too lazy to caramelize/bake the pears.

[06:15:08] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: So I'll cheat with apple and cranberry sauce.

[06:15:30] <Amnesiac> still sounds good

[06:15:32] <Amnesiac> :>

[06:15:38] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: ;)

[06:16:11] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: I have a friend who works for an upscale foods wholesaler.  He tempts me with all these things at really cheap prices.

[06:16:16] <Amnesiac> Special dinner for who?

[06:16:26] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: That's no special dinner; that's my dinner tonight.

[06:16:36] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: That's the point.  He gets me these things at wholesale price.

[06:16:49] <Amnesiac> that's great, send him to MX :P

[06:16:57] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: I feel like I'm working with a drug dealer ;)

[06:17:05] <Amnesiac> hahahah

[06:17:08] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Hrm... I know some food wholesalers in Mexico City.

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[06:17:19] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r

[06:17:19] <_56k> are there any issues with setting private variables through some method, and the variables are changed within the class, but when out of the class the function remains the original value?

[06:17:56] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: I know some guys who sell wholesale sushi stuff in Mexico City.  Near Zona Militar no. 1.

[06:18:04] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Somewhere below Tecamachalco.

[06:18:06] <Amnesiac> I just came from a sushi buffet

[06:18:14] <pr3d4t0r> *barf*.

[06:18:15] <Amnesiac> 65 pesos 20 diferentes tipos de sushi

[06:18:32] <Amnesiac> en el restaurant Han Kang

[06:18:39] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: If a place called Arirang still exists, that's a good place to go for sushi in GDL.

[06:19:06] <Amnesiac> uhm.... I haven't heard of it

[06:19:07] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: It was a popis Korean place.  Very good.  It ran circles around Suehiro.

[06:19:18] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: That was almost 20 years ago, so no rush ;)

[06:19:22] <Amnesiac> Suehiro is OK, not VERY great

[06:19:30] <ijoyce> i hope the authors of spring web flow die a horrible slow death

[06:19:34] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Suehiro was better when I lived there.

[06:19:45] <pr3d4t0r> ijoyce: Spring is for people who hate coding and love XML :)

[06:19:48] <Amnesiac> pr3d4t0r, I'm sure it was better, right now is just expensive

[06:20:04] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: He, he, he... Arirang was more expensive but it was also fucking awesome.

[06:20:08] <Amnesiac> ijoyce, I like XML but I don't hate coding, what's good for me? EJB? :P

[06:20:37] <ijoyce> pr3d4t0r, i love coding and am indifferent about xml

[06:20:58] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: http://www.wcities.com/en/record/,207674/81/record.html -- same owner.

[06:21:10] <ijoyce> like spring, so :P

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[06:21:43] <pr3d4t0r> ijoyce: JSF is worth looking into :)

[06:21:44] <Amnesiac> pr3d4t0r, uhm... that's not in MX :P

[06:21:48] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: I know.

[06:22:00] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: The same guy opened a really upscale Mexican restaurant in Seoul.

[06:22:15] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: It was a cultural exchange of sorts.

[06:22:36] <Amnesiac> o.O Koreans eating tamales

[06:22:37] <Amnesiac> heheheh

[06:22:43] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: His restaurant was a happening place in 1988 during the Olympic Games.

[06:22:56] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Yup.  Gorditas.  Escamoles.  The works.

[06:23:05] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: I actually had fucking awesome Mexican food in...

[06:23:11] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Sit down.  You won't believe it.

[06:23:14] <Amnesiac> Escamoles too? amazing

[06:23:16] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Moscow.

[06:23:43] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: No escamoles in Moscow, but damn good food.  The Cantina on Tverskaya Ulitsa, near the Kremlin.

[06:24:15] <Amnesiac> Escamoles = Ant's eggs fried with eggs

[06:24:22] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Mmm...

[06:24:30] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Chinicuiles.

[06:24:31] <ijoyce> JSF, ugh

[06:24:38] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Jumiles.

[06:24:54] <vinse> i had really bad mexican food in ...

[06:24:58] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: This morning I was hallucinating frog legs.  You can get them fresh in many markets in El Bajío.

[06:24:59] <vinse> south africa

[06:24:59] <Amnesiac> yeah lots of odd but good food

[06:25:07] <Amnesiac> vinse, let me guess... Taco Bell

[06:25:09] <Amnesiac> :P

[06:25:09] <Amnesiac> hehehe

[06:25:44] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: I have a great taco place and a great fonda here in SF.  One is open at nights only, the other is awesome for lunch (in South San Francisco).

[06:25:57] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: That fonda makes killer pozole.

[06:26:20] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Then only thing I miss is the medios tacos de lengua from Guadalajara.

[06:26:25] <Amnesiac> I don't really like pozole much

[06:27:02] <Amnesiac> tacos de lengua are good

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[06:27:43] <pr3d4t0r> Ah!  My Dad was in the paper recently too.

[06:27:51] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Menudo blanco.

[06:29:03] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Damn.

[06:29:05] <Amnesiac> I'm not a big fan of menudo and pozole :/

[06:29:15] <Amnesiac> I would prefer sushi :P

[06:29:18] <_56k> i hate java now

[06:29:36] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: López Dóriga interviewed my Mum about being a congresswoman.  I guess she won't be retiring soon.

[06:30:09] <Amnesiac> your mom is a congresswoman?

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[06:30:29] <pr3d4t0r> LOL

[06:30:36] <ijoyce> anyone know how to hook a debugger up to tomcat?

[06:30:40] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: She's city council (regidora).

[06:30:49] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Going for a state house next.

[06:30:52] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Guanajuato.

[06:30:53] <Amnesiac> pr3d4t0r, oohh cool

[06:31:25] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: http://www.celaya.gob.mx/index.php?id=284

[06:31:28] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Bottom left.

[06:32:10] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: She's 70 but we can't get her to take it easy.

[06:32:29] <Amnesiac> Caridad?

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[06:32:45] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: I'm listening to an interview.  That's pretty funny.  That was an interview from 2003; etc.

[06:32:48] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Yeah.

[06:33:20] <Amnesiac> cool, why you can't get here to the USA?

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[06:33:49] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Huh?

[06:33:53] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: http://eugeneciurana.com/galereya/view_album.php?set_albumName=trip_to_celaya

[06:34:06] <grim> if i create a synchronized list with a subclassed list, is it possible to typecast the returned list into my subclass?

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[06:34:19] <pr3d4t0r> enervate¡

[06:34:22] <pr3d4t0r> Er...

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[06:34:25] <pr3d4t0r> enervate!

[06:34:42] <Amnesiac> pr3d4t0r, y tu padre a que se dedica?

[06:35:12] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Es pintor.

[06:35:15] <Amnesiac> cool thing

[06:36:42] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Yeah

[06:36:49] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: He's... lemme think... 85.

[06:36:53] <Amnesiac> wey ya estas viejo :P

[06:36:57] <Amnesiac> o yo estoy muy joven

[06:37:12] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Viejos los cerros, güey, y reverdecen.

[06:37:27] <Amnesiac> hahahahaha

[06:37:29] * pr3d4t0r saca la matona y le apunta al Amnesiac

[06:37:30] <Amnesiac> ahuevo

[06:38:08] * pr3d4t0r se toma su paciflorine y deja en paz al Amnesiac

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[06:38:30] <Amnesiac> that's sounds like ritalin :P

[06:38:32] <Amnesiac> hahaha

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[06:39:51] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Also before your time.

[06:39:55] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Kid.

[06:40:08] <Amnesiac> hahahaha

[06:40:09] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: You could be my son... you know that.

[06:40:16] * pr3d4t0r thinks about this a bit longer.

[06:40:20] <Amnesiac> yeah, but I look OOOOOOLDER

[06:40:35] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: Damn, you could be my son.  I did live in Guadalajara a long time...

[06:40:47] <Amnesiac> hahahah

[06:40:47] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: How old are you again?

[06:41:27] * L----D listen

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[06:43:00] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: http://www2.eluniversal.com.mx/pls/impreso/noticia.html?id_nota=221058&tabla=notas -- another clan member.

[06:44:00] <Amnesiac> :P

[06:44:29] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: I'm the black sheep of the family.

[06:44:50] <Amnesiac> you ran away to US

[06:44:57] <Amnesiac> traitor!

[06:46:38] <_56k> o gaw

[06:46:44] <_56k> i think i found my bug

[06:46:48] <_56k> i hate my life

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[06:48:34] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: He, he, he...

[06:48:39] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: I had to run to the US.

[06:48:47] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: I got this girl pregnant in Guadalajara and...

[06:48:57] <pr3d4t0r> Amnesiac: ...never mind.  Let me go check on my duck.

[06:49:18] <Meghan> And you left her?

[06:49:27] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: I'm kidding.

[06:49:31] <Meghan> I know.

[06:49:44] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: I'm teasing Amnesiac because he's from there and chronologically he could be my son.

[06:49:50] <Meghan> Haha.

[06:50:18] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: I did almost marry a girl from Guadalajara.  Beautiful women in that city.

[06:52:17] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: They're all insane, though.

[06:52:31] <Meghan> Oh, why so?

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[06:53:02] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: They just are.  Too many reasons to list here.

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[06:53:10] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: Besides, my duck is almost ready.

[06:53:13] <Meghan> Put them in an array ;)

[06:54:19] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: Duck confit in an array would taste like crap.

[06:54:27] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: Where would I put the apple and cranberry sauce?

[06:54:30] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: ;)

[06:54:35] * pr3d4t0r wanders off to the kitchen.

[06:54:38] <Meghan> I meand the reasons.

[06:54:44] <Meghan> *meant

[06:55:26] <tieTYT> i'm looking at http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/jar/manifest/, it says "To load classes in JAR files within a JAR file into the class path, you must write custom code to load those classes."

[06:55:33] <tieTYT> but it doesn't tell me how to write that custom code

[06:55:36] <tieTYT> where do i learn that?

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[07:01:50] <rogue-kun{B}> can someone that familar with throw/Comparible interface have a look the my code snipt to see if I build this throw right [it compiles but I'm unsure on it's behavour]

[07:01:53] <Drone> View rogue-kun{B}'s post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8473

[07:02:40] <pr3d4t0r> Mmm... dinner's smelling good...

[07:02:48] <cybereal> rogue-kun{B}: looks fine to me; except where does 'id' come from?

[07:02:59] * pr3d4t0r readies another episode of "Desperate Housewives" to share his dinner.

[07:03:15] <rogue-kun{B}> cybereal: class varible

[07:04:10] <tieTYT> also, can the code in my jar access files inside the jar?

[07:04:15] <cybereal> rogue-kun{B}: your code checks that o is an instance of Employee, if not it throws a ClassCastException... I'd throw an IllegalArgumentException but I don't know what's really "proper"

[07:04:19] <tieTYT> by saying new File(...)?

[07:04:27] <cybereal> rogue-kun{B}: unless of course the compareTo throws ClassCastException

[07:04:54] <rogue-kun{B}> cybereal the unless is true 8)

[07:05:30] <rogue-kun{B}> so there is no issue with it not being return an int when it throws?

[07:06:51] <cybereal> rogue-kun{B}: no because it can't get past throw

[07:07:00] <cybereal> if you were catching it, then you'd have to return something

[07:07:18] <cybereal> the way it's written; you immediately exit the function after that throw statement

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[07:08:02] <rogue-kun{B}> good 8)

[07:08:40] <My2Cents> Can anyone tell me, or give me a site that tells me what the final keyword is about. I have been looking through google/java.sun.com forever and i can only find code that uses it.

[07:09:21] <rogue-kun{B}> if catching... you mean in this fuction or the try block the called the funtion?

[07:09:27] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell My2Cents about JLS

[07:09:27] <javabot> My2Cents, JLS is The Java Language Specification: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/

[07:09:50] <My2Cents> thank you pr3d4t0r

[07:10:07] <pr3d4t0r> My2Cents: Any time.

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[07:12:20] <Drone> View Meghan's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8475

[07:12:26] <Meghan> What on * is wrong with this?

[07:12:37] <Meghan> It should sort.., thats whats its supposed to do.

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[07:13:25] <My2Cents> looks like it only sorts once through Meghan

[07:14:02] <Meghan> Oh, so what am I missing?

[07:14:07] <Meghan> Too tired to figure it out ;.;

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[07:16:23] <tieTYT> give us input and output

[07:17:09] <Drone> View Meghan's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8476

[07:17:14] <Meghan> There ya go, the whole thing.

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[07:18:10] <My2Cents> Well i posted a simple 5 int long array sort

[07:18:19] <My2Cents> something is definately wrong :P

[07:18:26] <Meghan> Yeah.

[07:18:28] <My2Cents> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8477

[07:19:51] <My2Cents> omg

[07:19:54] <My2Cents> i see it i thik

[07:19:58] <My2Cents> think more like

[07:20:05] <Meghan> I hope you do.

[07:20:10] <Meghan> This is driving me nuts.

[07:20:14] <My2Cents> yup

[07:20:31] <My2Cents> you have for (int j = 1 ; j < num ; j++), should be for (int j = 0 ; j < num ; j++)

[07:20:36] <My2Cents> you skip the first element

[07:20:39] <My2Cents> it never moves ;)

[07:21:01] <My2Cents> Sleeping usually helps the brain :P

[07:21:13] <Meghan> Yeah, it wants to sleep.

[07:21:17] <tieTYT> that sorts it backwards

[07:21:22] <Meghan> But I don't want it to.

[07:21:28] <My2Cents> change the if

[07:21:31] <tieTYT> you need to switch the > with a <

[07:21:34] <My2Cents> yeah

[07:21:45] <tieTYT> i looked at that

[07:21:47] <tieTYT> and i was like

[07:21:53] <tieTYT> that's weird, it must be an optimization

[07:22:00] <My2Cents> tieTYT, i just cared that it sorted :P

[07:22:22] <Meghan> Looks like it works.

[07:22:37] <Meghan> Now lets try the random feed.

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[07:24:12] <My2Cents> brb

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[07:27:54] <tieTYT> Meghan: you should use ++ more often

[07:27:54] <|Agent> What's the syntax for making a sub-interface?

[07:27:54] <Meghan> tieTYT, I like ++, its my teacher dumbing me down there.

[07:27:54] <Meghan> And I also like ++var in some cases.

[07:28:57] <tieTYT> ++var is the shit

[07:29:04] <Meghan> ;)

[07:29:10] <Meghan> Increment before reading.

[07:29:13] <|Agent> nm, it's interface A extends B

[07:29:31] <tieTYT> |Agent: I didn't know what you were asking until you answered it

[07:30:08] <|Agent> I figured, "it could be 'interface A implements B'"

[07:30:29] <tieTYT> logic there is that the interface A does not have code for interface b

[07:31:04] <|Agent> Logic? Since when does that apply to languages designed by committee? ;)

[07:35:35] <Cow_woC> var++ is bad

[07:35:40] <Cow_woC> after doing C++ anyway you learn to avoid it

[07:35:55] <Cow_woC> because you end up creating a copy, incrementing the original then returning

[07:36:02] <Cow_woC> it's a waste of resources for no good reason

[07:36:12] <Meghan> So you prefer ++var ?

[07:36:14] <Cow_woC> you should always use ++var over var++ if possible

[07:36:23] * Meghan Nods and makes a mental note.

[07:36:33] <Cow_woC> yeah, I used to use var++ before C++ came around ... then when I saw the internals I learnt to avoid it

[07:37:27] <tieTYT> Cow_woC: i'm sure it's optimized either way

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[07:38:04] <Cow_woC> tieTYT: even if you store it in a register, which is darn fast, optimized or not it's a waste

[07:38:12] <Cow_woC> besides which I believe var++ leads to unreadable code

[07:38:27] <tieTYT> that doesn't make sense

[07:38:29] <tieTYT> if it were optimized

[07:38:32] <Cow_woC> generally speaking, I favor more lines -- one instruction per line -- than stuffing as much as possible on a single line

[07:38:37] <tieTYT> it would turn var++ into ++var

[07:38:56] <ijoyce> how is var++ unreadable?

[07:38:59] <Cow_woC> tieTYT: oh, you mean if it has no side-effect? yeah, you've got a point

[07:39:12] <Cow_woC> ijoyce: it isn't in its own right, but it encourages unreadability

[07:39:12] <tieTYT> yeah it usually doesn't have one in the code i right

[07:39:13] <tieTYT> write

[07:39:41] <Cow_woC> all too often I see crap like ... "while (counter++ > j+i)" or god knows what

[07:39:59] <ijoyce> well if you want to post-increment you have no choice but to use var++

[07:40:00] <Cow_woC> it's yet another level of complexity that should be avoided

[07:40:08] <tieTYT> i've never seen that shit

[07:40:11] <Cow_woC> ijoyce: sure .. don't post increment :)

[07:40:16] <tieTYT> that's gross

[07:40:25] <Cow_woC> tieTYT: heh, my x-boss used to code like shit ...

[07:40:32] <Cow_woC> the above code is uber clean for him

[07:40:38] <Cow_woC> he did something insane once

[07:41:00] <Meghan> :P

[07:41:14] <Cow_woC> used integer-based pointer referencing to treat a struct's member as a different type than it was defined, depending on some flag

[07:41:19] <Cow_woC> it was completely and utterly unreadable

[07:41:51] <Cow_woC> I hated having to pick up his code and extend it

[07:41:55] <Cow_woC> :)

[07:45:35] <My2Cents> Cow_woC, that would give me nightmares lol

[07:48:04] <Kal-L> can java only play .au songs?

[07:48:07] <Kal-L> files

[07:48:17] <ernimril> ~tell Kal-L about jmf

[07:48:18] <javabot> Kal-L, jmf is Java Media Framework.  You can find more information at:  http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/jmf/index.jsp

[07:49:37] <Kal-L> hmmm..but also valid for applications along with applets?

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[07:49:59] <Kal-L> on dial up..hard to read and download at same time

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[07:51:27] <My2Cents> Kal-L, yes

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[07:54:02] <granden> Is this correct int tal1 = Keyboard.readInt();

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[07:55:03] <My2Cents> Does anyone know what happened to bash.org?

[07:55:18] <Meghan> What did it go offline?

[07:55:30] <My2Cents> yeah i think over a month ago now

[07:55:36] <My2Cents> hasn't resolved for me :S

[07:55:42] <granden> Is that correct that I wrote a second ago?

[07:55:57] <My2Cents> granden, if i knew i would answer

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[07:56:07] <My2Cents> granden, have you tried google?

[07:56:12] <granden> yeah

[07:56:28] <granden> But Nothing showed up as I wrote but many different other ways

[07:56:39] <My2Cents> i am sure when someone reads it and knows the answer, they will answer

[07:56:51] <My2Cents> maybe the bot knows

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[07:57:47] <My2Cents> ~keyboard

[07:57:48] <javabot> My2Cents, I have no idea what keyboard is.

[07:57:59] <Meghan> ~brain

[07:57:59] <javabot> Meghan, brain is in your head, and related to this:  http://www.eugeneciurana.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Humor&id=20030723this

[07:58:00] <Drone> That URL gave the following error code: 404 Not Found

[07:58:03] <Meghan> Aww

[07:58:12] <Meghan> The bots are cute.

[07:58:18] <My2Cents> poor bots are fighting about your brain :P

[07:58:22] <Meghan> :P

[07:58:40] <My2Cents> Drone is right though

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[08:02:22] <My2Cents> woah

[08:02:28] <My2Cents> big split

[08:02:34] <My2Cents> here they come back !

[08:03:28] <Meghan> Yup.

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[08:05:21] <My2Cents> wait a min, i am on that server...

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[08:05:52] <Meghan> I hate it when I lose track of brackets.

[08:06:14] <My2Cents> get an editor that tabs for you

[08:06:24] <Meghan> I use textpad, it sort of tabs.

[08:06:26] <My2Cents> so you just auto tab it and see where you miss easily

[08:06:30] <Meghan> But its a bit buggy.

[08:06:32] <rogue-kun{B}> Meghan: thats what code indetion is for 8)

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[08:06:49] <rogue-kun{B}> Meghan it not buggy

[08:06:58] <My2Cents> rogue-kun{B}, i am going to keep calling it autotab :P

[08:08:14] <Meghan> It not buggy? Whats it?

[08:08:14] <rogue-kun{B}> textpad: Ctrl+Shift+J 8) reformat 8)

[08:08:14] <Meghan> Ah.

[08:08:14] * Meghan tries it.

[08:08:14] <Meghan> Ouch, made it one line.

[08:08:15] <My2Cents> ctrl+z :P

[08:08:15] <rogue-kun{B}> try a second time

[08:08:22] <Meghan> Nope, still, I don't like its idea of good format.

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[08:08:41] <My2Cents> there they are

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[08:15:37] <My2Cents> this is horrible lol

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[08:16:29] <Xgc> "We're experiencing issues.  Please standby."

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[08:17:15] <My2Cents> i noticed lol

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[08:18:25] <My2Cents> i hope it doesn't get me next :S

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[08:21:26] <Meghan> Ahem.

[08:21:26] <Meghan> Hoppity hop.

[08:21:26] <My2Cents> lol

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[08:21:26] <Meghan> I need your two cents :/

[08:21:26] <My2Cents> before you came back there was only like 20 people here lol

[08:21:26] <My2Cents> shoot :P

[08:21:26] <Meghan> My if condition doesn't work.

[08:21:27] <My2Cents> paste the one line

[08:21:27] <Meghan> k

[08:21:27] <Meghan> loc=input.charAt(i);

[08:21:27] <Meghan> 			if ((loc>=0)&&(loc<=9)||(loc<=-9)&&(loc>=0)) {

[08:21:36] <Meghan> Need to scan for integers on each character in a string.

[08:21:44] <My2Cents> you are using a char

[08:21:47] <Meghan> If no integers, therefore it must be a string.

[08:21:55] <Meghan> Its in a loop.

[08:22:04] <Meghan> Scans it all till the end of the string.

[08:22:05] <My2Cents> you need to try and convert it to an int

[08:22:18] <pr3d4t0r> Test.

[08:22:20] <Meghan> No, not until I know its an int, otherwise you get a runtime error.

[08:22:31] <Meghan> Want me to pastebin?

[08:22:34] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: Have you seen any net split warnings?

[08:22:35] <My2Cents> i'll give you a little piece of code

[08:22:40] <Meghan> pr3d4t0r, yeah.

[08:22:44] <rogue-kun{B}> Meghan 0 != ''0'

[08:22:49] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: OKi, thanks.

[08:22:51] <rogue-kun{B}> Meghan 0 != '0'

[08:22:56] <Meghan> ??

[08:23:07] <Meghan> Zero is not equal to char zero..?

[08:23:16] <rogue-kun{B}> Meghan: correct

[08:23:41] <My2Cents> Meghan, try this in a function, http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8479

[08:23:43] * pr3d4t0r smacks Meghan

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[08:23:48] <My2Cents> lol

[08:23:51] <vinse> lol what a great news story

[08:23:53] <Drone> View Meghan's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8480

[08:23:53] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: 0 ~= '\0'

[08:24:06] <Meghan> ok

[08:24:08] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: '0' ~= 48

[08:24:23] <My2Cents> use my function i posted

[08:24:25] <vinse> a guy got 30 years in prison for armed robbery, but he asked the judge to make it 33 cuz he was such a big larry bird fan (larry bird wore number 33)

[08:24:27] <My2Cents> but make it a function lol

[08:24:34] <Meghan> k

[08:24:38] <Xgc> Meghan: That's a pretty funny line of code.

[08:24:41] <vinse> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2198534

[08:24:47] <Meghan> I'm confused by all the suggestions.

[08:24:55] <My2Cents> lol vinse

[08:24:56] <Meghan> Xgc, isnt it though? :P

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[08:25:15] <Xgc> Meghan: x<=-9 && x>=0  ??

[08:25:16] <My2Cents> wow too many windows up

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[08:25:29] <My2Cents> lol

[08:25:30] <Meghan> My2Cents, did you see my whole pastebin?

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[08:25:52] <pr3d4t0r> Test.

[08:25:55] <My2Cents> yes

[08:25:57] <pr3d4t0r> alindema!

[08:25:58] <My2Cents> you work pr3d4t0r

[08:26:02] <pr3d4t0r> alindeman!

[08:26:05] <Meghan> Xgc, I was thinking, that if each character is between those numbers, it should be an integer.

[08:26:05] <pr3d4t0r> My2Cents: Thanks.

[08:26:15] <My2Cents> :P

[08:26:16] * pr3d4t0r thinks that the Fiber Seeking Backhoe found its mark.

[08:26:32] <My2Cents> Meghan, let me write that piece as a function for you to use

[08:26:39] <Meghan> k

[08:26:48] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell My2Cents about spoonfeeding

[08:26:49] <javabot> My2Cents, Spoon-feed a newbie for a day and he will come back with more questions.  Teach him how to help himself and he will come back with answers.

[08:26:58] <vinse> pr3d4t0r: you having internet problems?

[08:26:58] <Meghan> lol

[08:26:58] <Xgc> Meghan: Read that again.  How can one number be <=-9 and also >=0

[08:27:04] <vinse> pr3d4t0r: i cant get to a lot of sites

[08:27:04] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Yeah.

[08:27:09] <vinse> wikipedia, for example

[08:27:11] <Meghan> Meh, Xgc its late ;.;

[08:27:14] <Meghan> True.

[08:27:15] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Yeah.  Efnet seems unreachable.

[08:27:36] <vinse> god dammit Meghan

[08:27:37] <Meghan> Maybe I should just use or to all of them and see if it works.

[08:27:38] <Meghan> lol

[08:27:39] <vinse> you broke the internet

[08:27:40] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: I host my own DNS.  That means something bad at MAE West or at the root DNS.

[08:27:42] <Meghan> :P

[08:27:52] <vinse> pr3d4t0r: meghan did it

[08:27:58] * pr3d4t0r smacks Meghan

[08:27:59] <vinse> by doing such a bad job on her homework :(

[08:28:15] <Meghan> Hey!

[08:28:16] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: I suspect that "Meghan" is a he.

[08:28:20] <Meghan> If its all OR it works :D

[08:28:23] <My2Cents> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8481

[08:28:28] <Meghan> K lets try odd cases...

[08:28:28] <My2Cents> thats for you Meghan

[08:28:30] <Meghan> k

[08:28:39] <My2Cents> use it before you do the if

[08:28:43] <vinse> pr3d4t0r: i suspect that everyone i talk to on the internet is a he

[08:28:49] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: He, he, he...

[08:28:52] <My2Cents> if it returns true its an int, if not, its something else

[08:28:59] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: owned/censored/FlyingPig is not.

[08:28:59] <Meghan> k

[08:29:00] <My2Cents> make sure you pass a string to it

[08:29:28] <vinse> i used to play a lot of mmorpg's

[08:29:36] <pr3d4t0r> OKi, CNN is up.

[08:29:42] <vinse> they're filled with men pretendign to women

[08:29:49] <Meghan> Eww

[08:29:51] <My2Cents> vinse, 12 year olds :P

[08:29:53] <Meghan> Pervs

[08:29:54] <rogue-kun{B}> vinse: you the publisher "he" hum?

[08:29:56] <vinse> people referred to them as "manginas"

[08:30:19] <Meghan> I think my bad coding gives away my sex :P

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[08:30:27] <rogue-kun{B}> and not not all irc users are male, I know quite few females IRC usersRL

[08:31:00] <My2Cents> anyone know what this table from the global means?

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[08:31:10] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: What's your gender?  Indian?

[08:31:20] <Meghan> Uhuh

[08:31:23] <Cow_woC> ;)

[08:31:26] <Meghan> You mean nationality?

[08:31:28] <vinse> pr3d4t0r: cnn was down and is back up? or you're just commenting in general that it's up?

[08:31:37] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: The issues with connectivity.

[08:31:50] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: You said "I think my bad coding gives away my sex".

[08:31:58] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: I figured... Indian!

[08:32:13] <Meghan> lol

[08:32:16] <My2Cents> pr3d4t0r, did you get that internet health report from the global?

[08:32:24] <pr3d4t0r> My2Cents: Not yet.

[08:32:26] <My2Cents> pr3d4t0r, so does your website name :P

[08:32:32] <pr3d4t0r> My2Cents: I forgot the URL.  What is it?

[08:32:37] <My2Cents> http://scoreboard.keynote.com/scoreboard/Main.aspx?Login=Y&Username=public&Password=public

[08:33:05] <pr3d4t0r> Ah!

[08:33:07] <pr3d4t0r> Level3.

[08:33:09] <My2Cents> if you know what it means can you tell me? i think it is the biggest hosts of the internet but i don't know exactly

[08:33:21] <pr3d4t0r> My2Cents: Those are all backbone providers.

[08:33:28] <My2Cents> ah

[08:33:30] <pr3d4t0r> My2Cents: Level3 services a big chunk of the 'net.

[08:33:36] <My2Cents> thats not good

[08:33:47] <My2Cents> least it can talk to itself lol

[08:33:48] <pr3d4t0r> My2Cents: Indeed.

[08:34:03] <pr3d4t0r> My2Cents: There are quite a few places where conversation is next to impossible.

[08:34:25] <My2Cents> are any of these in Canada?

[08:34:34] <pr3d4t0r> My2Cents: Probably.

[08:35:19] <vinse> whats "level3" ?

[08:35:21] <My2Cents> i don't recognize any of those companies lol

[08:35:37] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Backbone provider.

[08:36:08] <vinse> this is the second large scale outage in the last month or so, no?

[08:36:11] <pr3d4t0r> Hrm... Level3 and Verio are the constipated ones.

[08:36:20] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: I only noticed this one.

[08:36:34] <vinse> i thought i saw a news story a little while back

[08:36:41] <rogue-kun{B}> pr3d4t0r: know which backbone comcast uses?

[08:37:11] <vinse> rogue-kun{B}: i think you can get routed along a backbone from any provider

[08:37:18] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: No.

[08:37:34] <vinse> i'm talking out my ass with network stuff though, some one here will probably be able to tell, so i'm gonna shut up ;0

[08:37:46] <My2Cents> lol vinse

[08:37:55] * rogue-kun{B} is guess AT&T, due to Comcast internet use to be attbi 8)

[08:38:52] <My2Cents> lilo is keeping everyone informed in ##level3 if anyone is interested

[08:39:35] <rogue-kun{B}> vinse: each is has a pimary backbone, the they talk to, to talk to things on other backbones

[08:39:36] <cybereal> rogue-kun{B}: my comcast uses at&t; I don't know if it's the same everywhere

[08:40:13] <My2Cents> wow

[08:40:21] <My2Cents> Verio is starting to lose some spots

[08:41:07] <My2Cents> wow Verio is all down but level3 spot just like level3

[08:41:07] <rogue-kun{B}> cybereal: how do you check ? 8)

[08:41:44] <cybereal> rogue-kun{B}: run a traceroute with reverse dns lookup on and you can see where the packets go; the hostnames are almost always indicitave of the backbone at some point

[08:42:40] <cybereal> I used to work for a company with 3 DS3 connections directly to XO... I could really flood someone off the 'net ;)

[08:42:54] * rogue-kun{B} boots his linux boxk to traceroute 8)

[08:43:05] <cybereal> you can traceroute in windows

[08:43:08] <cybereal> tracert <host>

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[08:43:12] <vinse> http://scoreboard.keynote.com/scoreboard/Main.aspx?Login=Y&Username=public&Password=public

[08:43:32] <vinse> that site was just posted in ##level3 where lilo et al is talking about it

[08:43:56] <cybereal> someone posted it here a few minutes ago

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[08:44:12] <Cow_woC> ouch :)

[08:44:34] <rogue-kun{B}> cybereal: att here too

[08:45:23] <vinse> cybereal: how do you tell from tracert which hop is the backbone?

[08:46:20] <cybereal> vinse: you have to make an educated guess

[08:46:44] <cybereal> vinse: which isn't so hard to do considering there are only so many backbone providers

[08:47:09] <vinse> cybereal: hmm, a good guess is it's the bbx.<some backbone provider> ones, no?

[08:47:26] <cybereal> vinse: look at the list of backbones on that scoreboard and base your guess on those names

[08:47:27] <vinse>   3    50 ms    47 ms    48 ms  bb2-10g2-0.snfcca.sbcglobal.net [216.102.176.226]

[08:47:32] <cybereal> yeah that's probably it

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[08:47:50] <rogue-kun{B}> it hit my back boon on hop 8

[08:47:53] <Baloogan> What is xor operator?

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[08:48:03] <rogue-kun{B}> Baloogan: excluseve or

[08:48:08] <Baloogan> I mean, what?

[08:48:10] <Baloogan> ^^ ?

[08:48:13] <vinse> Baloogan: ^

[08:48:14] <Baloogan> %?

[08:48:17] <rogue-kun{B}> it only tru of one is true, not both

[08:48:22] <Baloogan> if (true ^^ false)

[08:48:26] <Baloogan> I know. I want to use it.

[08:48:27] <cordor> i have problem of file name in other charset encoding

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[08:48:45] <Baloogan> so its if (true ^^ false) return yay?

[08:48:59] <cybereal> Baloogan: true ^^ false == true

[08:49:03] <Baloogan> ok thanks

[08:49:12] <Baloogan> thats what I wanted.

[08:49:23] <My2Cents> anyone know of a site i can do a free traceroot?

[08:49:23] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: That's for Boolean algebra, not for logical comparisons.

[08:49:35] <pr3d4t0r> My2Cents: A traceroute?

[08:49:43] <pr3d4t0r> My2Cents: You can do it from your computer.

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[08:49:50] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: Ooh, a reboot.

[08:49:55] <pr3d4t0r> My2Cents: What kind of machine are you on?

[08:50:08] <cybereal> My2Cents: if you are on windows, open cmd.exe and type tracert att.,net

[08:50:13] <cybereal> er tracert att.net or whatever host

[08:50:14] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Yeah.  Lots of routing problems.  I eliminated the obvious.  It turns out that Verio and Level3 are constipated.

[08:50:53] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: Perhaps that would explain some lag I had.

[08:51:01] <cybereal> Is it another stupid contract dispute?

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[08:51:23] <My2Cents> pr3d4t0r, from linux?

[08:51:32] <vinse> cybereal: yeah that's what i was trying to remember ... pr3d4t0r there was a similar outage this month because of a contract dispute

[08:51:37] <vinse> some one link that story

[08:51:46] <Baloogan> Ok I'm gettign the wierdest error

[08:51:52] <Baloogan> C:\Documents and Settings\Baloogan\CS\src\CS.java:316: illegal start of expression

[08:51:52] <Baloogan>                 if((origs[i] == DNA.Protein.Ter) ^^ (muts[i] == DNA.Protein.Ter) )

[08:51:54] <pr3d4t0r> My2Cents: traceroute server.name.com

[08:51:55] <My2Cents> pr3d4t0r, i just installed my linux yesterday, i don't know what the command would be :S

[08:51:59] <My2Cents> ok cool

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[08:52:12] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: That's not an operator.

[08:52:18] <nater> eh? am i not the only one who lost their connection/

[08:52:27] <pr3d4t0r> Baloogan: If you want inclusive OR, you want ||

[08:52:32] <Baloogan> I want xor.

[08:52:38] <terence_> what would you prefer in which cases: arraylist<>vector?

[08:52:52] <Baloogan> xor!

[08:52:53] <rogue-kun{B}> Baloogan (x ^ y)

[08:52:56] <Baloogan> ok

[08:53:00] <vinse> rogue-kun{B}: that's bitwise

[08:53:17] <rogue-kun{B}> || incluseve, ^^ exclusive

[08:54:03] <My2Cents> is theplanet.com a piece of the backbone?

[08:54:11] <cybereal> if (!(a and b) && (a or b)) {}

[08:54:18] <Baloogan> rogue-kun{B}: Why would I use a ^ rather than a ^^?

[08:54:33] <rogue-kun{B}> Baloogan: to force bother to evaluate

[08:55:07] <pr3d4t0r> My2Cents: No.

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[08:55:25] <hatOFF> I did a basic ircd, so each player connects, i'm storing his nick & IP into a variable, but if I have 3 players online and the 2nd leaves the server the nick that will leave the server is the 3rd one. How can I fix this?

[08:55:49] <vinse> hatOFF: via debugging?

[08:56:07] <hatOFF> uhm, not sure if that can fix that.

[08:56:07] * pr3d4t0r wonders if they still teach data structures in schools.

[08:56:09] <vinse> hatOFF: that's called an off-by-one error

[08:56:19] <hatOFF> it's a logical error

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[08:56:29] <vinse> ok fine

[08:56:33] <hatOFF> i'm always overwriting the variable

[08:56:33] <rogue-kun{B}> pr3d4t0r: some do, you just have to take the right class

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[08:56:51] <rogue-kun{B}> some school let you taqke programing class before you take your desgin class

[08:57:02] <vinse> that's always true i think

[08:57:12] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: He, he, he...

[08:57:15] <vinse> it's so you can learn debugging skills!

[08:57:25] <vinse> hatOFF: discover the magic of System.out.println

[08:57:34] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: I liked my university in that sense.  French system.  You're given the classes you need to take, no questions asked.

[08:57:47] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: You only get to pick about four or five classes in five years :)

[08:58:00] <terence_> prefix.split("\") does not compile and prefix.split("\\") raises regex unknown source error, but i simply want to split for char '\'! what is wrong here?

[08:58:04] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: Reduces ambivalence :)

[08:58:10] <vinse> french system? so if you're not doing well at any point in the semester you can just give up?

[08:58:12] <hatOFF> vinse, you haven't understood the problem that I have.

[08:58:18] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r

[08:58:20] *** vinse was kicked by pr3d4t0r (pr3d4t0r)

[08:58:22] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r

[08:58:26] <Cow_woC> terence_: use "\\\\"

[08:58:31] <pr3d4t0r> He, he, he...

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[08:58:37] <slava> haha \\\\

[08:58:37] <cybereal> Hehe

[08:58:42] <vinse> ;p

[08:58:48] <vinse> it was a terrible joke, i admit

[08:58:50] <Cow_woC> slava: yes, it's very very very ugly

[08:58:55] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Not as bad as mine.

[08:58:56] <pr3d4t0r> slava!

[08:59:07] <rogue-kun{B}> pr3d4t0r: independted studdy is always an option if it don't fit in you sedual 8)

[08:59:16] <Cow_woC> terence_: In Java regex you need to escape \, inside a string, you need to escape it too

[08:59:23] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: :)

[08:59:25] <Cow_woC> terence_: put it together and a single slash becomes "\\\\"

[08:59:38] <pr3d4t0r> slava: http://www.qdb.us/49937

[09:00:04] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: Doing regexp in Java is stupid.

[09:00:11] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: There are much better tools for that.

[09:00:11] <Cow_woC> well

[09:00:21] <Cow_woC> I tend to agree, although I find myself using it sometimes

[09:00:24] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: It's like doing OOP with COBOL.

[09:00:29] <Cow_woC> usually for hack jobs I discard

[09:00:36] <slava> pr3d4t0r: or oop in java

[09:00:41] <pr3d4t0r> slava: He, he, he...

[09:00:50] <Cow_woC> hehehe

[09:00:53] <hatOFF> is there a command to identify the 2nd person connected to the socket server?

[09:00:56] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: love the http://www.qdb.us/49937 link

[09:01:16] <hatOFF> so like, if 2nd person leaves server then remove 2nd person's nick from the database.

[09:01:19] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: My mean streak is strong tonight.  It must be the duck I ate for dinner.

[09:01:20] * rogue-kun{B} mutter the one problem with his found is \ shoiw up as \

[09:01:20] <hatOFF> from the List.

[09:01:26] <cybereal> hatOFF: no

[09:01:30] <cybereal> hatOFF: you have to track that yourself

[09:01:39] <cybereal> hatOFF: not every socket server is a game server

[09:01:44] <cybereal> or chat server or whatever

[09:01:49] <hatOFF> uhm

[09:02:01] <hatOFF> that's what vinse said before, strange

[09:02:29] <hatOFF> then how am I supposed to store the nicknames into a game socket server? if the player exits what's going on? GAME OVER?!

[09:02:30] <cybereal> hatOFF: you need to stop asking questions and go learn about sockets before you go on

[09:02:40] <cybereal> hatOFF: that is up to you

[09:02:46] <cybereal> the programmer, who designs the game server

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[09:02:59] <pr3d4t0r> Danielle: Princesse!

[09:03:00] <hatOFF> yes, i choosed if he leaves to close his socket connection!

[09:03:03] <pr3d4t0r> Danielle: :*

[09:03:11] <Danielle> hello pr3d4t0r !!!

[09:03:24] <cybereal> hatOFF: then obviously you know who left

[09:03:25] <hatOFF> and i did that cybereal, i'm closing his connection... but i just can't remove his nick out of the db.

[09:03:29] <pr3d4t0r> Danielle: http://eugeneciurana.com/musings/JavaInAction.html

[09:03:35] <vinse> hatOFF: what is this "socket server" you speak of? this is a native java class?

[09:03:44] <hatOFF> yes

[09:03:46] <cybereal> hatOFF: why the hell can't you do what you wnat to do in your code?

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[09:04:04] <hatOFF> hold on, let me pastebin

[09:04:21] * cybereal hates closeminded programmers.

[09:04:48] * Meghan hates being expected to do more while knowing less.

[09:04:52] *** deedaw has quit IRC

[09:05:12] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: The problem is not the knowledge level.

[09:05:12] * My2Cents loves cheese

[09:05:22] * Cow_woC tips himself over

[09:05:28] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: It's the receptivity and willingness to learn that you show that may become an issue.

[09:05:34] <rogue-kun{B}> Meghan, Trust the computer, the computer is your friend, happyness is manditory 8)

[09:05:37] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: We aren't very forgiving in this channel.

[09:05:46] <Meghan> Right, I'm sure if I knew more methods I could figure this out.

[09:05:59] <pr3d4t0r> Danielle: We missed you in Orlando.

[09:06:09] <cybereal> Meghan: you'll get it, just keep trying :D

[09:06:14] <Danielle> pr3d4t0r, you always miss me ;)

[09:06:17] <My2Cents> lol cow

[09:06:25] <pr3d4t0r> Danielle: I missed you more.

[09:06:31] <pr3d4t0r> Danielle: http://eugeneciurana.com/personal/images/Everybody-at-sushi.jpg -- this is "us".

[09:06:40] <My2Cents> Meghan, check out google  :D

[09:06:41] <pr3d4t0r> Danielle: You may recognize some of the Usual Suspects.

[09:06:41] <hatOFF> http://pastebin.com/400668 <-- line 147

[09:07:02] <vinse> Meghan: it's always the case that if you knew more methods you could figure it out, that's why one of the first skills you need is how to find information about methods/classes

[09:07:06] <Meghan> My2Cents, yeah, I did CHECK out google, and I always find stuff that uses advanced methods.

[09:07:33] <Meghan> vinse, the thing is I don't know if I'm supposed to use methods I haven't been taught.

[09:07:35] <My2Cents> or read through this

[09:07:40] <Cow_woC> oooh, hotty Danielle!

[09:07:41] <My2Cents> ~ReallyBigTutorial

[09:07:42] <javabot> My2Cents, I have no idea what ReallyBigTutorial is.

[09:07:43] <Danielle> pr3d4t0r, yeah...I remember this "Olga" ;)

[09:07:44] <My2Cents> hmm

[09:07:47] <Cow_woC> surrounded by nerds

[09:07:47] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: In the real worls, it's not about "being taught" or not.

[09:07:52] <pr3d4t0r> Danielle: Aw?

[09:07:56] <rogue-kun{B}> Meghan: dont know what a methered does... lok it up in the api 8)

[09:07:57] <Meghan> True.

[09:07:57] <pr3d4t0r> Danielle: From where?

[09:08:02] <slava> pr3d4t0r: real worls?

[09:08:04] <My2Cents> pr3d4t0r, do you know the reallybigtutorial url?

[09:08:06] * pr3d4t0r is baffled.

[09:08:13] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell My2Cents about rbi

[09:08:14] <javabot> My2Cents, rbi is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/reallybigindex.html

[09:08:34] <My2Cents> there you go Meghan

[09:08:43] <My2Cents> that helped me a lot when i started out

[09:08:45] <Danielle> We already talkek about her... when you first showed me the picture :)

[09:08:52] <My2Cents> has almost every topic to start out with

[09:08:54] <pr3d4t0r> Danielle: Ah!

[09:08:54] <Cow_woC> hey! Where is javabot in that photo? :)

[09:09:01] <pr3d4t0r> Danielle: I forgot I'd showed you this photo.  Sorry.

[09:09:04] <cybereal> Meghan: are you learning to program, or are you learning java after already knowing how to program?

[09:09:17] <pr3d4t0r> Danielle: There was another Danielle there but she didn't come close to you.

[09:09:19] <rogue-kun{B}> Cow_woC: minding the channel

[09:09:31] <Cow_woC> :")

[09:09:35] <Meghan> cybereal, I knew some old style programming, like basic, turbo basic, some python.

[09:09:46] <Meghan> They screw me up when it comes to classes and all that.

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[09:10:00] <Cow_woC> I did QBasic, Turbo Pascal, C/C++, Java and Perl

[09:10:03] *** mazon is now known as Mazon

[09:10:04] <Danielle> pr3d4t0r, she's kind of pretty :)

[09:10:08] <Cow_woC> TP rox0rs

[09:10:09] <Cow_woC> :)

[09:10:19] <Meghan> So I hear, tried it a bit.

[09:10:43] * rogue-kun{B} did Appblesoft Basic, QBasic, Turbo Pascal, VB, C/C++, MUF and Java 8)

[09:10:45] <Meghan> Damn, I'm not getting this done, this should be done by now *checks the time*.

[09:10:48] * Meghan cries

[09:11:01] <My2Cents> Danielle, are you the one labeled Danielle in that picture?

[09:11:01] <cybereal> Meghan: so you are learning about object oriented programming and java

[09:11:07] <rogue-kun{B}> MUF was fun 8), reverse polish notation 8)

[09:11:11] <pr3d4t0r> Danielle: Yeah.

[09:11:12] <cybereal> Meghan: did you know that turbo pascal has just about all the features that java has in the OOP sect?

[09:11:20] <pr3d4t0r> Danielle: I like hanging out with pretty women.

[09:11:21] <Meghan> Nope.

[09:11:22] <cybereal> Meghan: I wonder if turbo basic has that too

[09:11:29] <Danielle> My2Cents, no

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[09:11:30] * pr3d4t0r tries to snuggle to Danielle.

[09:11:57] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: d00d.

[09:12:07] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: You have a bunch of open connections into lavender -- what's up?

[09:12:11] <Meghan> So whats the easiest way of checking if a char is an int or not, without having to use exceptions?

[09:12:23] <Meghan> I don't know this stuff yet, so wouldn't make sense to use it.

[09:12:23] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: ...

[09:12:28] <Meghan> But I'm seeing no way around it.

[09:12:30] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: I expect most are pending SSH timeouts.

[09:12:35] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: OKi.

[09:12:45] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: I keep having to reconnect.

[09:12:45] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: In English, what are you trying to accomplish?

[09:13:14] <Meghan> Simply seeing is a string is int or not, without crashing due to the Integer.Parse... and without using a catch.

[09:13:20] <cybereal> Meghan: there is nothing wrong with doing something and catching a specific exception

[09:13:21] <Meghan> *if

[09:13:25] <Cow_woC> Meghan: Character.isDigit()

[09:13:33] <Meghan> Heh.

[09:13:41] <Cow_woC> Meghan: better yet: Integer.parseInt()

[09:14:07] <Meghan> Cow_woC, if this parses a character like H it crashes though.

[09:14:10] <Meghan> Runtime crash.

[09:14:16] <Meghan> So I'll try the above.

[09:14:17] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: She doesn't want exceptions.

[09:14:20] <rogue-kun{B}> Meghan: why you not alloud to use a try{}Catch() ?

[09:14:29] <My2Cents> Cow_woC, i gave her the function that uses Interger.parseInt()

[09:14:31] <Meghan> Because I wasn't taught that yet.

[09:14:34] <My2Cents> so?

[09:14:39] <rogue-kun{B}> so?

[09:14:46] <slava> if(ch >= '0' && ch <= '9') /* ch is a digit */

[09:14:52] <ricky_clarkson> Meghan: So learn.

[09:14:58] <slava> characters are ordered

[09:15:05] <Meghan> Heh.

[09:15:07] <Meghan> ok

[09:15:23] <ricky_clarkson> slava: Don't forget that negative numbers exist these days.

[09:15:34] <Meghan> Yeah, supposed to catch those too.

[09:15:43] <rogue-kun{B}> Meghan: if and "advanced" mother does not Contracdic the desgined speces  then teacher LOVE you useing them 8)

[09:15:47] <Cow_woC> Meghan: ok, so use Character.isDigit() while iterating over the entire string

[09:15:53] <Meghan> k

[09:15:56] <cybereal> a '-' won't be a digit

[09:15:57] <rogue-kun{B}> s/mother/methord/

[09:15:59] <Meghan> Yeah I'm using it in a loop.

[09:16:10] <Cow_woC> good point

[09:16:14] <Cow_woC> so handle '-' as well

[09:16:16] <Cow_woC> and '.'

[09:16:19] <ricky_clarkson> Why the fuck are you telling him to use Character.isDigit()?

[09:16:25] <Cow_woC> him -> here

[09:16:25] <ricky_clarkson> Morons.

[09:16:26] <Cow_woC> her

[09:16:31] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: what would you suggest?

[09:16:34] <ricky_clarkson> Integer.parseInt

[09:16:37] * Meghan giggles

[09:16:42] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: char[] s = someString.toCharArray();  boolean bAllDigits = true; for (char cSymbol : s) if (!Char.isDigit(cSymbol)) { bAllDigits == false; break; }

[09:16:43] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: obviously you didn't read the requirements

[09:16:44] <Meghan> ricky_clarkson, this causes a runtime error

[09:16:54] <rogue-kun{B}> ricky_clarkson: because Meghan wiill not use try {nteger.parseInt()}

[09:16:56] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: She doesn't want exceptions at all

[09:17:00] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: I disagree with the requirements.

[09:17:08] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: You aren't her teacher.

[09:17:15] <ricky_clarkson> Meghan: So catch the exception.

[09:17:23] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: you're doing it again

[09:17:33] * Meghan feels like dying :/

[09:17:35] <Cow_woC> stuffing opinions instead of answering questions :)

[09:17:37] <rogue-kun{B}> ricky_clarkson: "not been taught that yet"

[09:17:38] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: He spends too much time with dibblego.

[09:17:44] <Cow_woC> hehe

[09:17:45] <ricky_clarkson> rogue-kun{B}: That's not a reason.

[09:17:47] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: I gave you the answer earlier.

[09:17:56] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: Go implement that and stop chatting ;)

[09:17:57] * ricky_clarkson notes that he teaches new Java programmers.

[09:17:57] <Meghan> Trying to decode this, copied it.

[09:17:59] <rogue-kun{B}> ricky_clarkson: its what Meghan is sighting

[09:18:00] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: You have much to learn.

[09:18:05] <Meghan> I do, I do.

[09:18:08] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: Your answer doesn't cope with negatives.

[09:18:12] <Meghan> But I need to learn more tricks first.

[09:18:24] <My2Cents> yah they let me say somethinig in ##level3

[09:18:25] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: What do you mean?

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[09:18:29] <ricky_clarkson> See, Integer.parseInt exists for a reason - it might not be as trivial as it first appears.

[09:18:39] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: "-123" is a valid number.

[09:18:40] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Oh, -42.  Yeah, well, she can figure that one out.

[09:18:58] <slava> Integer.parseInt()? not trivial? who are you kidding?

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[09:19:06] <ricky_clarkson> And Integer.parseInt might support a (redundant) +, e.g., +56

[09:19:30] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Anyone using +n should be shot.

[09:19:37] <ricky_clarkson> It might know about 0xcabba6e, octal, or some binary notation.

[09:19:45] <nater> iirc, integer.parseInt will say +56 isn't an int

[09:19:58] <slava> Integer.parseInt() does not support 0x prefix

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[09:20:07] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Yeah, you've been hanging out with dibblego too long.

[09:20:28] <slava> nor does it support +56

[09:20:45] <Meghan> You could do something like if charAt(0)=='+' or '-'

[09:20:58] <Cow_woC> Meghan: first trim() your string to be sure

[09:21:02] <Meghan> The prefix should be in the beginning normally.

[09:21:16] <ricky_clarkson> I don't see any reason to duplicate Integer.parseInt.

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[09:21:23] <ricky_clarkson> I do see a reason to learn about exceptions.

[09:21:27] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Meghan about exceptions

[09:21:32] <javabot> Meghan, exceptions is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/essential/exceptions

[09:21:48] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: there is a reason, and it is to learn how it works.

[09:21:48] <pr3d4t0r> slava: ::sigh::

[09:22:24] <cybereal> There is absolutely nothing wrong with implementing existing code as a learning exercise

[09:22:37] <rogue-kun{B}> ricky_clarkson: considering excption and events are key to java's OOP 8)

[09:22:52] * Meghan reads about exceptions.

[09:23:02] <ricky_clarkson> cybereal: There is when the reason is lack of knowledge of syntax.

[09:23:04] * pr3d4t0r smacks rogue-kun{B}

[09:23:24] <Meghan> Useful stuff, I got a bit annoyed when I heard by my teacher that Integer.parse.. would simply just crash, how dumb.

[09:23:26] <rogue-kun{B}> pr3d4t0r: thanky you sir, may I have another?

[09:23:31] * pr3d4t0r spanks rogue-kun{B}

[09:23:39] * Cow_woC panics and tips himself over

[09:23:49] <Cow_woC> I better head off to bed

[09:23:52] <Cow_woC> good night all

[09:23:55] * nater yawns

[09:23:56] <pr3d4t0r> Cow_woC: :*

[09:23:58] <Cow_woC> Meghan: good luck... :)

[09:24:04] <My2Cents> anyone else in ##level3?

[09:24:04] <Cow_woC> pr3d4t0r: :)

[09:24:05] <rogue-kun{B}> oyasumi Cow_woC-san

[09:24:05] <Meghan> Thanks.

[09:24:11] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: when in school, you sort of have to live by the teacher's rules;  hopefully you're aware enough of reality to realize when the teacher is being an asshat

[09:24:16] <Cow_woC> rogue-kun{B}: good night

[09:25:01] <Meghan> Night and thanks for all the tips rogue-kun{B}

[09:25:05] <vinse> i hate to belabor the point cuz i know i've said this before, but it comes up a lot:

[09:25:20] <ricky_clarkson> cybereal: You don't have to live by the teacher's rules.

[09:25:28] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: you do if you want to pass the class

[09:25:31] <rogue-kun{B}> Meghan: your teacher is right, Parsing will crash your progame, IF you don't catch excptions 8)

[09:25:43] <vinse> school is where you learn to do a good job at tasks even though they are totally senseless, because that's generally what employers want.

[09:25:45] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: one of the many flaws of school

[09:25:50] <Meghan> rogue-kun{B}, I know, seen it live.

[09:25:55] <Meghan> And shaked a fist at java.

[09:26:00] <cybereal> ~vinse++

[09:26:05] <Meghan> But now I see the revelation of exceptions.

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[09:26:08] <javabot> vinse has a karma level of 24, cybereal

[09:26:13] <rogue-kun{B}> cybereal: you only have to meet the Proggject spefications. you can go more advaced if you don't violat those

[09:26:24] <ricky_clarkson> cybereal: Any good university (assuming that's what you mean by school) will employ lecturers who can be reasoned with,

[09:26:28] <cybereal> rogue-kun{B}: I guess it really depends on the teacher

[09:26:31] <Meghan> Anyway gotta stop chatting for a while and finish this one to move on to the next one *cheer*

[09:26:50] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: sure, I'd hope so; but you know, there are so many universities that I'm sure you get all shades of grey

[09:26:51] * pr3d4t0r tucks away his /mode ##java +q Meghan

[09:27:00] <ricky_clarkson> cybereal: And even then there are channels for complaint - a friendly conversation in the ear of a few colleauagues helps.

[09:27:10] <vinse> ricky_clarkson: a) most people go to terrible universities, b) good ones still have bad teachers

[09:27:14] <ricky_clarkson> cybereal: I got a mark upgraded from 61% to 93% by arguing.

[09:27:20] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: It also depends on whether or not they are teaching java or teaching basic programming concepts.

[09:27:21] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Those who can, do.

[09:27:25] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Those who can't...

[09:27:31] <ricky_clarkson> don't.

[09:27:35] <vinse> pr3d4t0r: there *are* good teachers

[09:27:56] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: At my university the best teachers were the ones that taught only part time, between 0700 and 1000 and after 1700.

[09:28:00] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Care to guess why?

[09:28:02] <ricky_clarkson> cybereal: It wouldn't be difficult, given the latter, to wrap Integer.parseInt.

[09:28:02] <rogue-kun{B}> many good teachers exist

[09:28:08] <vinse> pr3d4t0r: they had real jobs

[09:28:11] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Yup.

[09:28:33] <vinse> pr3d4t0r: at my university the best teachers left as soon as they could!

[09:28:41] <ricky_clarkson> cybereal: Far too often students actually assume that they can't do anything that hasn't been covered.  Their eyes haven't been opened to looking things up for themselves.

[09:28:55] <rogue-kun{B}> pr3d4t0r: to have office hours to help students?

[09:28:59] <Meghan> ricky_clarkson, you can say that again.

[09:29:04] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: that's also true, I suppose it just depends on the goal of the assignment whether they should use advanced features or stick to the basics

[09:29:30] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: every time I have helped my friends with their CS homework, at the local Uni, they have specific limitations on which libraries/methods can be used

[09:29:31] <vinse> Meghan: just get comfortable for now with writing and debugging little bits of code ... check the output of your programs one line at a time

[09:29:36] <ricky_clarkson> cybereal: I regularly google in lectures, on the data projector.

[09:29:37] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: I don't know how it is for Meghan here though

[09:29:37] <vinse> make sure everything acts like you expect

[09:29:44] <vinse> and browse javadoc

[09:30:01] <vinse> basic classes, like string and stuff, so you get an idea of what they can do

[09:30:02] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: They had real jobs.

[09:30:02] <rogue-kun{B}> cybereal: hences the statemnt "meet design specs"

[09:30:02] <Meghan> vinse, I try and make them as verbose as possible to see what changes happen and if they're correct, then I get rid of the extra output

[09:30:30] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: The good teachers are usually the ones who teach because they want to, when they want to, not the ones who teach when they're forced to by it becoming a job.

[09:30:33] <rogue-kun{B}> pr3d4t0r: where in my expreaces the best tease consderd teacheing to be thier "real job"

[09:30:43] <ricky_clarkson> cybereal: My students are, after 5 weeks, past the CS course's entire 1st year already, and this lot aren't even university age yet.

[09:30:51] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: I only had one of those.

[09:31:07] <rogue-kun{B}> pr3d4t0r: where as I have had meny 8)

[09:31:10] <vinse> Meghan: no, start small ... a bug in n lines of code takes n^2 to fix

[09:31:21] <rogue-kun{B}> I've had as few asshat teachers

[09:31:32] <ricky_clarkson> Me too.

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[09:31:43] <ricky_clarkson> One problem with universities is that they never seem to sack people.

[09:31:54] <nater> tenure man

[09:32:06] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: The smart ones leave before they get corrupted by the system.

[09:32:08] <ricky_clarkson> When a department closes they get asked what department they want to move to.

[09:32:14] <nater> you basically have to be an embarassment to the university to get fired

[09:32:18] <Baloogan> My CS 1000 has just reached SWTICH STATEMENTS!

[09:32:20] <rogue-kun{B}> ricky_clarkson: oh ive seen a university sack a teacher, one of said Ass hard had 2/3 of the class go to the dean 8)

[09:32:25] <Baloogan> HOLY SHIT 2 months BAYMAN

[09:32:28] <Baloogan> Batman.

[09:32:31] <ricky_clarkson> One of my colleagues smokes in his office, which I think is sackable..

[09:32:37] <nater> baloogan: think you can handle that?

[09:32:48] <vinse> did you guys see the switch statement in the recent dailywtf?

[09:32:50] * pr3d4t0r left teaching 18 months after starting, "giving up" full benefits.  Couldn't stand having to teach every day.  The salary sucked.

[09:32:53] <Baloogan> nater: I hope so. Those cases are hard.

[09:33:01] <Baloogan> defaults can get ya.

[09:33:10] <rogue-kun{B}> ricky_clarkson: here it sackible as it violated health laws 8)

[09:33:14] <Baloogan> And java3d is much more interesting. :/

[09:33:27] <Baloogan> And so is sleep

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[09:33:29] <vinse> http://www.thedailywtf.com/forums/47011/ShowPost.aspx

[09:33:40] <vinse> there's a sweet example of learning switch statements!

[09:33:56] <nater> baloogan: there was a thing i tried to do with switches for handling actionevents rather than using the standard if else chain

[09:34:02] <Meghan> Good thing xchat has a url grabber.

[09:34:09] <nater> you can get away with using a char i think, but strings are a no-no

[09:34:20] <slava> you handle action events with if/else statements?

[09:34:22] * pr3d4t0r grabs Meghan

[09:34:26] <Meghan> Ow

[09:34:35] <pr3d4t0r> slava: It's a sad night in ##java.

[09:34:41] <nater> if else if

[09:34:49] <rogue-kun{B}> ricky_clarkson: have a quite word to leagle asking about what type of suits violat those ordiantes will open the uni to, and see how much longer your college heeps doing it 8)

[09:35:41] <rogue-kun{B}> slava: inside actionPerformed(ActionEvent evt) yes 8)

[09:36:01] *** Storkme is now known as Stork

[09:36:10] <slava> yuck

[09:36:31] <Meghan> Sorry guys, didn't mean to bring your programming level down.

[09:36:41] * rogue-kun{B} wishes you could use relationals ( < > ) and strings in java switch

[09:36:43] <nater> errr... that dailywtf is amusing

[09:36:44] <Meghan> I feel like a baby, trying to speak while only knowing a few words.

[09:36:58] <rogue-kun{B}> Meghan: I don't mind 8)

[09:37:03] <vinse> (00:34:15) lilo: okay, this is interesting.... a level3 customer says they heard back from them, that they were performing some network-wide software upgrades and ran into problems

[09:37:08] <rogue-kun{B}> everone has to start somewhere

[09:37:11] <cybereal> Meghan: It's okay, everyone learns at some point; even the rather pretentious bunch that visits this channel regularly had to know nothing of programming at some point

[09:37:16] <nater> the best dailywtf i saw had to deal with a mysql query though

[09:37:27] <slava> Meghan: don't worry, at least you're not doing j2ee programming

[09:37:29] <slava> that's what brings the level down

[09:37:39] <Meghan> cybereal, I must admit I gave up on learning C++ on my own, which is why I'm taking this course.

[09:37:39] <vinse> at least it's not applets

[09:37:44] <Meghan> I want to get through with it this time.

[09:37:54] <pr3d4t0r> Ugh.  More time outs.

[09:37:55] <cybereal> Meghan: Java is worlds better than C++ imho

[09:38:00] <pr3d4t0r> Another rolling network outage.

[09:38:22] <nater> i'll get crucified for saying this in here, but i prefer C...

[09:38:27] <Eclipser> gah

[09:38:33] <Eclipser> don't start this C++ vs java crap again

[09:38:36] <cybereal> nater: I'd rather hear that than C++

[09:38:36] <pr3d4t0r> nater: C has its place.

[09:38:41] <cybereal> C definitely has its place

[09:38:41] <pr3d4t0r> nater: So has Java.

[09:38:55] <pr3d4t0r> nater: The problem is idiots trying to do Cish things in Java and Javaish things in C.

[09:39:11] * Eclipser sighs

[09:39:11] <rogue-kun{B}> nater: hard to right kernels in java ;)

[09:39:19] <rogue-kun{B}> write even

[09:39:22] <nater> pr3d4t0r: agreed... and i found it a hard habit to break when i was at that stage

[09:39:38] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: It isn't.

[09:39:58] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: My company shipped and sold a Java-based OS for four years.

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[09:40:04] <Meghan> From my understanding, C++ is harder to port, but runs more efficiently for a specific system. Java is better because of the JVM, however it runs bulkier for big specific applications. Its all up to what exactly your project's specifications are right?

[09:40:08] <nater> am i going to lose my connection again?

[09:40:18] <pr3d4t0r> nater: We might.  I'm seeing shit break all over the place.

[09:40:26] <nater> great....

[09:40:29] <cybereal> Meghan: the interdynamics of java vs. c++ run deep but you get the basic idea

[09:40:29] <rogue-kun{B}> pr3d4t0r: your the compy that made the PDA who hard ware talked bytecode?

[09:40:36] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: Yes.

[09:40:37] <slava> Meghan: java is used because pinhead managers read about it in a magazine

[09:40:43] <Meghan> Haha

[09:40:44] <cybereal> Meghan: just realize that on modern hardware, it takes a heavy task to make java "too slow"

[09:40:54] <rogue-kun{B}> pr3d4t0r: i said hard, not impossible

[09:40:56] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: Nah.

[09:40:57] <slava> Meghan: in the real world, technical merit rarely enters the picture

[09:40:58] <Meghan> cybereal, true, but some tasks are very intensive

[09:41:10] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: All it takes is a couple of dumbass programmers ;)

[09:41:13] <rogue-kun{B}> but you will admit the the hardware is not "common" right? 8)

[09:41:16] <Meghan> Why would you write an app to calculate pi in java? I don't really know though if it would be faster in c++

[09:41:20] <cybereal> Meghan: usually the reason Java or similar languages is used has nothing to dow ith performance, it's with time to market

[09:41:24] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: Yeah.

[09:41:39] <My2Cents> anyone else keeping up with ##level3?

[09:41:44] <slava> cybereal: time to market doesn't matter to pinhead managers. they just want to use what they read in the magazine.

[09:41:44] <Meghan> I understand that, usually the ones setting the program specifications have no clue about programming.

[09:41:52] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: heh yeah I forget about dumbass programmers because at my job we don't have any yet :) but we have to hire more people soon so we'll see...

[09:41:55] <Meghan> They should at least take an intro course so they know whats going on.

[09:42:18] <cybereal> I'm fortunate enough to have all technically adept managers

[09:42:30] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: You would not believe the dumbasses I had to interview.

[09:42:47] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: We have very technically adept people; it's our saving grace.

[09:42:47] <cybereal> My CTO has 18 years experience programming for all sorts of fields, my project manager has similar background (though more leaning towards managing those teams)

[09:42:52] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: And rather fearless :)

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[09:43:36] <cybereal> Although lately my CTO has been showing signs of "old dog new tricks" ... and conservatism that I don't think is healthy for the product line

[09:43:41] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: I had dumbasses with "10 years of experience", passed all Java certs with "85% or above", etc. etc. who couldn't code a simple stack.

[09:43:42] <rogue-kun{B}> Meghan: actully an Anaylius has to keep user spefication primary to the desin [parking imposiblities]

[09:43:47] *** ricky_clarkson2 has joined ##java

[09:44:02] <ricky_clarkson2> pr3d4t0r, Can't connect to lavender.

[09:44:09] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson2: Blame level3.

[09:44:13] <Meghan> What are these funky hostnames? Did they come with the new ircd?

[09:44:15] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson2: /join ##level3.

[09:44:18] <ricky_clarkson2> level3: can't connect to lavender.

[09:44:38] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: yeah, we recently had to interview 60 people, that's all that applied (which shocked me) and only 3 of them were acceptable, 2 of those considered for Jr. positions; the third was an M.I.T. grad with experience too... so he better be good.

[09:44:40] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: lavender.cime.net is one of my servers.

[09:44:46] <Meghan> Ah

[09:44:48] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: About 10 people here use it for jumping to IRC.

[09:44:54] <Meghan> No I meant ricky's hostname

[09:44:54] <rogue-kun{B}> Meghan: if the program does not meat what the User needs, faild project

[09:45:04] <slava> what if the user does not want meat?

[09:45:08] <Meghan> heh

[09:45:14] <cybereal> Hehe

[09:45:29] <Meghan> Depends on the size

[09:45:37] <cybereal> :-O

[09:45:40] <slava> pr3d4t0r only has 3 inches

[09:45:49] <pr3d4t0r> slava: I wish.

[09:45:53] <rogue-kun{B}> slava: meet even

[09:45:57] <Meghan> Oh no, the good old male length comparisson

[09:45:57] <ricky_clarkson2> Meghan, I accidentally acquired 1337.

[09:46:03] <pr3d4t0r> slava: On a good day I only clock 2.5".

[09:46:09] <cybereal> Meghan: you started it

[09:46:16] <cybereal> ~tell ricky_clarkson2 about 1337

[09:46:16] <javabot> ricky_clarkson2, I have no idea what 1337 is, 8u7 17 50un65 0x0FF-70p1c

[09:46:21] <ricky_clarkson2> I have widescreen.

[09:46:21] <Meghan> Can't help it

[09:46:40] <Meghan> I saw meat-- you know

[09:46:47] <cybereal> heh meat--

[09:46:47] <ricky_clarkson2> moo

[09:46:50] <Meghan> You gotta know the size

[09:47:05] <slava> the kind of meat that charges 10 dollars a throw?

[09:47:39] <Meghan> No, the kind that lasts longer

[09:47:51] <vinse> we were really excited at my last job when we got to bug #1337

[09:47:56] <vinse> we all called it "the leet bug"

[09:48:05] <ricky_clarkson2> vinse, was it a spelling mistake?

[09:48:15] <ricky_clarkson2> The actual bug, I mean.

[09:48:31] <vinse> no heh

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[09:51:16] * ricky_clarkson2 hopes t'Internet has repaired itself before he gets to work.

[09:51:37] <cybereal> seems to be heading to the positive now

[09:51:48] <My2Cents> ricky_clarkson, nothing seems to be fixing right now

[09:52:01] <My2Cents> backbone providers are actually cutting themselves off from level3

[09:52:04] <cybereal> pfft kopete

[09:52:29] <ricky_clarkson2> Wow, a network I've never heard of is annoying me!

[09:52:29] <cybereal> I was a developer on that project for about a week, until I learned that they didn't want to fix anything, just keep adding features.  I was like.. "add features to what, a sigsegv screen!?"

[09:53:17] * cybereal votes for an international wireless mesh network

[09:53:38] <vinse> cybereal: "I learned that they didn't want to fix anything, just keep adding features" ... you've had jobs that werent like that?

[09:53:53] <cybereal> vinse: kopete is an OSS project

[09:54:02] <My2Cents> ricky_clarkson2, check out http://scoreboard.keynote.com/Scoreboard/Main.aspx user/pass are public

[09:54:16] <cybereal> vinse: my job right now actually... we're freezing all new features for a bug fix session estimated to last 6 mo.

[09:54:47] <vinse> cybereal: nice ... refactoring? or just bug fixes?

[09:55:22] <ricky_clarkson2> Whoever tripped on *that* cable has probably been shot in the head.

[09:55:23] <cybereal> vinse: mainly bug fixes, we have a very very very active codebase and in the last 2 years we've been left with a relatively stable product but it has 300+ open tickets, we want to close as many as possible before next releases are demanded

[09:55:54] <My2Cents> ricky_clarkson2, join ##level3 for more info, but level3 is losing money so they charged more and now people are tearing off from them

[09:56:02] <ricky_clarkson2> My2Cents, I'm there.

[09:56:21] <ricky_clarkson2> I find it difficult to understand.

[09:56:42] <My2Cents> me also, you have to follow along constantly or get lost

[09:57:21] <My2Cents> try a traceroute 4.4.4.4 to see if you can get through level3 at all

[09:57:37] <cybereal> vinse: and while I understand your point, you have to realize that at this time in Kopete's lifespan, almost nothing worked, and it crashed reliably when doing almost anything.  It was unusable and I was offering my time to fix that.  I had patches before I even joined up.  But the fact that they weren't willing to reconsider certain design elements that were the root of the issue... ugh stupid developers.  It's actually a completely diff

[09:57:37] <cybereal> team now heh

[09:58:31] <vinse> cybereal: grats on exceeding max message length!

[09:58:32] * cybereal dies one hope into l3

[09:58:46] * cybereal smiles

[09:58:57] <cybereal> hm s/hope/hop/

[09:59:06] <Stork> :o

[09:59:21] <My2Cents> same cybereal, try cnn.com

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[10:00:12] <My2Cents> Drone got hit :S

[10:00:32] <cybereal> My2Cents: right now my packets to cnn.com seem to be traversing every node on atdn heh

[10:00:41] <cybereal> now getting request timd out

[10:01:08] <My2Cents> yeah, you live near toronto, Canada?

[10:01:17] <cybereal> In the sense of the Earth, yes

[10:01:21] <cybereal> in the sense of cities? no

[10:01:31] <cybereal> I live in USA, Utah, Salt Lake City

[10:01:39] <cybereal> on att.net

[10:01:42] *** blastnost has quit IRC

[10:01:44] <cybereal> by way of comast

[10:01:50] <cybereal> er comcast... whatever blah

[10:01:56] *** Drone has joined ##java

[10:02:06] <My2Cents> lol

[10:02:29] * Meghan pats the bot

[10:03:10] <cybereal> ugh this game is running an update, by diff, so it only gets changed files... I think every single file is changed, it would be done by now if it had just downloaded them all instead of running a hash on every single file that has an older date... grr

[10:03:12] <My2Cents> yah Drone

[10:03:14] <cybereal> 12,983 files

[10:03:24] <cybereal> hm drone is a silly bot

[10:03:28] <My2Cents> lol cybereal

[10:03:37] <cybereal> ~s/silly/nearly pointless/

[10:03:38] <javabot> cybereal, I have no idea what s/silly/nearly pointless/ is.

[10:03:43] <cybereal> grr wrong bot!

[10:04:05] <cybereal> ~say !s/no/some

[10:04:06] <javabot> !s/no/some

[10:04:12] <My2Cents> whats drones signal?

[10:04:13] <cybereal> oh right, Drone ignores javabot

[10:04:26] <My2Cents> lol they would have to

[10:04:30] <cybereal> My2Cents: they didn't at one point

[10:04:33] <My2Cents> that would be distarous

[10:04:40] <cybereal> actually I think it pays attention to some things

[10:04:42] <My2Cents> cybereal, i know i was here when they did it

[10:04:43] <cybereal> ~seen bananas

[10:04:43] <javabot> !seen bananas

[10:04:45] <Drone> I've never seen bananas talk in ##java.

[10:04:51] <cybereal> My2Cents: see, that's an example

[10:04:56] <My2Cents> lol

[10:05:09] <My2Cents> change your nick to ~seen

[10:05:10] <My2Cents> lol

[10:05:33] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Ping...

[10:05:35] <pr3d4t0r> slava: http://www.rifers.org/blogs/jboyens/2005/10/20/deploying_apache_axis

[10:05:39] <Meghan> ~seen Jesus

[10:05:39] <javabot> !seen Jesus

[10:05:40] <Drone> I've never seen jesus talk in ##java.

[10:05:52] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r

[10:05:55] <pr3d4t0r> ~leave

[10:05:56] <javabot> I'll be back in one hour

[10:05:56] *** javabot has left ##java

[10:06:04] *** Meghan was kicked by pr3d4t0r (Go back to work and stop abusing the 'bot)

[10:06:10] *** cybereal was kicked by pr3d4t0r (Go back to work and stop abusing the 'bot)

[10:06:11] <My2Cents> :S

[10:06:19] *** cybereal has joined ##java

[10:06:22] <Stork> lol

[10:06:23] <cybereal> I'm not at work :P

[10:06:24] <My2Cents> lol

[10:06:42] <My2Cents> lol don't ask for a /boot don't correct me

[10:09:58] <My2Cents> uh oh i can't traceroute to freenode.net :S

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[10:12:27] *** Meghan has joined ##java

[10:12:37] <Meghan> ;.;

[10:12:48] * cybereal waves at Meghan

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[10:13:35] <yourob> how can we move objects? <input type="text" name="tsttext"/> the one i have created sits on the upper left... jsp

[10:13:39] <My2Cents> ok this internet down this is not very good for my productivity lol

[10:14:02] <My2Cents> yourob, is that javascript?

[10:14:09] <Meghan> Internet seems to be fine in canada thus far.

[10:14:21] <My2Cents> Meghan, your in Canada too?

[10:14:28] <Meghan> Yeah

[10:14:33] <My2Cents> Ontario?

[10:14:42] <Meghan> Next to that, Winnipeg

[10:14:45] <My2Cents> ah

[10:14:50] <My2Cents> you have linux installed?

[10:15:18] <cybereal> Windows has traceroute too: tracert.exe

[10:15:21] <Meghan> Not on this laptop but my brother has a box with linux

[10:15:24] <Meghan> A few of them

[10:15:36] <My2Cents> you should try some traceroutes from where you are

[10:15:49] <Meghan> What should I trace?

[10:16:00] <My2Cents> 4.4.4.4 and cnn.com seem to be the hardest to get into

[10:16:49] <Meghan> I seem to get*'son the 11th

[10:16:55] <Meghan> and 12th and on

[10:17:34] <My2Cents> for both?

[10:17:37] <My2Cents> whats your last hop?

[10:17:43] <Meghan> Doing the second

[10:17:47] <Meghan> My last was the 10th

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[10:18:10] <Meghan> cnn I got as far as 21

[10:18:38] <Meghan> stars later on

[10:19:04] <My2Cents> yeah are they corv-car1-gw.nero.net for cnn.com as your last hop?

[10:19:57] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r

[10:20:14] <My2Cents> and ge-10-2.core1.Chicago1.Level3.net  for tracerouting 4.4.4.4?

[10:21:04] <Meghan> wait

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[10:21:52] <Drone> View Meghan's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8485

[10:21:59] <Meghan> thats my results

[10:22:57] <My2Cents> i get same for cnn.com but your 4.4.4.4 is different, but that is accountable because you have a different isp

[10:23:42] <cybereal> My2Cents: some routes are dynamic as well, you may get different results from different attempts at running traceroute

[10:24:35] <My2Cents> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8486

[10:24:47] <My2Cents> yeah my traceroute now dies when shooting at 4.4.4.4

[10:24:53] <My2Cents> with a !H

[10:25:35] <Meghan> Heh

[10:25:45] <My2Cents> anyone know what a !H means?

[10:25:46] <Meghan> What is 4.4.4.4v?

[10:25:48] <cybereal> strange

[10:25:49] <cybereal> try man

[10:25:52] <cybereal> man traceroute

[10:25:57] <Meghan> Some sort of routing thing?

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[10:26:36] <cordor> help, i have problem to write correct file name

[10:27:19] <Meghan> Woohoo, my first flawless program for the night (I think).

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[10:27:44] <Drone> View Meghan's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8487

[10:27:48] <Meghan> :D

[10:27:57] <My2Cents> Other possible annotations after the time are !H, !N, or !P (host, net-

[10:27:57] <My2Cents>        work  or  protocol  unreachable),

[10:28:04] <My2Cents> host unreachable

[10:28:07] <My2Cents> go man :D

[10:28:12] <Meghan> If my prof doesn't like the exception, he can go --

[10:28:19] <My2Cents> lol

[10:28:31] <Meghan> Less code, and now that I know this, you can't beat it out of me.

[10:28:36] <Meghan> Thanks My2Cents ;)

[10:28:40] <Meghan> Sorry for the torture though.

[10:28:46] <cybereal> Meghan: exceptions are great, btw, python has those :)

[10:28:54] <Meghan> Didn't fall into them

[10:29:02] <Meghan> Anyway, he can't say the program doesn't run

[10:29:15] <My2Cents> np Meghan, glad to help anyone i can :)

[10:29:42] <Meghan> This is so much easier, I don't have to come up with weird long conditions to catch everything

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[10:30:12] <My2Cents> nope :)

[10:30:14] <Meghan> My2Cents, in catch (Exception e) what does the arg e mean though?

[10:30:16] <Meghan> Just curious

[10:30:23] <My2Cents> its the exception

[10:30:38] <My2Cents> you can do things like e.printStackTrace(); to find what caused the error

[10:30:50] <Meghan> That sounds cool for later on

[10:30:58] <My2Cents> yeah something to learn for later for sure

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[10:31:09] <My2Cents> can be used to go a different way if one fails ;)

[10:31:12] <Meghan> Ok last program then back to one.

[10:33:16] <My2Cents> Meghan, isn't it 3:30am there?

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[10:33:26] <Meghan> True

[10:33:36] <Meghan> 3:33

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[10:35:42] <My2Cents> i'm an insomniac, whats your excuse?

[10:36:14] <Meghan> Assignment due tomorrow

[10:36:24] <My2Cents> ah

[10:36:28] <Meghan> I did half of it sometime this week, didn't expect to get stumped

[10:36:29] <My2Cents> this programming thing?

[10:36:33] <Meghan> Yeah

[10:36:38] <My2Cents> whats your last part?

[10:36:55] <Meghan> A program that evaluates tic tac toe movements for two players of course

[10:37:16] <My2Cents> what do you mean "evaluates"?

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[10:37:53] <Meghan> I think he wants a command line based tictac, that is player one puts in 1-9 for the squares

[10:37:57] <Meghan> and player 2 the same

[10:38:02] <My2Cents> ah

[10:38:09] <pr3d4t0r> Cheers.

[10:38:14] <My2Cents> you know arrays right?

[10:38:16] <Meghan> I'm thinking one array for the moves

[10:38:17] <My2Cents> you leaving pr3d4t0r?

[10:38:19] <Meghan> Hehe, yeah.

[10:38:32] <pr3d4t0r> My2Cents: Yeah.  It's 0138.  Sheets beckon me.

[10:38:48] <Meghan> What? Thats early, stay on ;)

[10:38:51] <My2Cents> its 4:38 here :P

[10:39:10] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: I have better things to do than semi-geeking out in ##java ;)

[10:39:19] <Meghan> Agreed

[10:39:30] <Meghan> I'd be in morpheus's armful if it wasnt for this

[10:39:34] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: All of a sudden I feel horny and my g/f just got up to go to the restroom.  It's time for a nice interlude.

[10:39:38] <Meghan> Its fun though, just frustrating at times

[10:39:40] <Meghan> Hah

[10:39:52] <My2Cents> lol pr3d4t0r

[10:39:56] <My2Cents> go quick :P

[10:40:00] <cybereal> My girlfriend loves it when I ambush her with sex

[10:40:03] <cybereal> Hope pr3d4t0r's is the same

[10:41:00] <My2Cents> lol

[10:42:02] <Meghan> Sex is always welcome

[10:42:22] <Meghan> In the condition of gf-bf that is

[10:42:31] <My2Cents> lol

[10:42:48] <My2Cents> Sex is always welcome here also, no matter relations

[10:42:58] <cybereal> hah

[10:43:23] <My2Cents> its what happens when your a horny 18 year old lol

[10:43:24] <Meghan> My2Cents, does it make sense to make the code for this game a big while statement?

[10:43:33] <My2Cents> yeah you could

[10:43:43] <Meghan> k

[10:43:46] <My2Cents> while(!gameover) or something to that effect

[10:44:28] <Meghan> Good idea

[10:44:56] <Meghan> The !gameover confuses me, I'll just make a boolean and call it true until I make it false

[10:45:25] <cybereal> Meghan: gameover would be a boolean, and that bang (!) just means "not"

[10:45:27] <My2Cents> its up to you :) not my program

[10:45:31] * Meghan nods

[10:45:45] <Meghan> cybereal, yeah I know, but I don't like it this way

[10:45:53] <Meghan> I just set the boolean initiated to true

[10:45:54] <My2Cents> while(gameon)

[10:45:55] <My2Cents> :)

[10:46:09] <cybereal> Heh ok

[10:47:00] <My2Cents> cybereal, i have little things like that too, i always type i=i+1; outside of fors never i++;, but in a for loop i have to do i++, just habbit

[10:47:01] <cybereal> I don't like while loops checking non-calculated booleans because they aren't very explicit... if that makes sense.  I will only use them if they are checking a calculation or the result of one

[10:47:28] <cybereal> My2Cents: any special reason you prefer i = i  + 1?

[10:47:38] <Meghan> Its the form for dumb people ;)

[10:47:52] <cybereal> My2Cents: you don't have to use i++ in a for loop

[10:47:53] <Meghan> My prof uses it, treating us like starters

[10:47:59] <cybereal> Meghan: it's not dumb

[10:48:03] <cybereal> Meghan: some languages don't have ++

[10:48:06] <Meghan> I'm just kiding

[10:48:14] <Meghan> Yikes, I'm used to ++, lazier

[10:48:23] <My2Cents> cybereal, i know, but its habbit to only do it in for loops

[10:48:34] <My2Cents> i don't like reading i++; outside a loop

[10:48:41] <My2Cents> or even i+=1;

[10:49:05] <cybereal> They are just convenience operators, so it doesnt' matter

[10:49:10] <cybereal> they all have the same functional result

[10:49:47] <My2Cents> cybereal, yes i know, i'm just backing up Meghan's point of !gameover, do what feels right :)

[10:49:52] <cybereal> however in some other languages that's not always the case, you might have ++ actually modify the value while +=1 instantiates a new object or whatever

[10:49:59] <cybereal> My2Cents: yeah

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[10:50:26] <Garibaldi> well, i++ might get an iinc instruction, while + might get and iadd

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[10:50:46] <Garibaldi> whether one is faster than another, I don't know

[10:51:04] <My2Cents> the difference must be extremely minimal

[10:51:09] <cybereal> I wonder if primitives are mutable

[10:51:32] <cybereal> in C++ it could be huge differences if operators are overloaded

[10:51:36] <cybereal> but in java you can't do that

[10:51:46] <cybereal> so I doubt ++ and += 1 and x = x + 1 are any different

[10:52:07] <roots-> they are different

[10:52:27] <roots-> the left-value expression is evaluated only once with ++ and +=

[10:52:38] <roots-> and twice with x = x + 1

[10:52:43] <cybereal> roots-: true

[10:52:46] <roots-> whether that makes a difference or not is another story

[10:53:02] <cybereal> roots-: but don't you think the compiler would catch that in the case that x is a primitive, vs. an expression?

[10:53:06] <cybereal> I guess you can't count on it

[10:53:16] * cybereal doesn't trust compilers

[10:53:19] <My2Cents> lol

[10:53:19] <roots-> an expression is not always an lvalue

[10:53:45] <roots-> only an lvalue can be used for assignment and unary pre/post increment/decrement

[10:53:58] <roots-> but there is volatile

[10:54:04] <roots-> volatile vars and so on

[10:54:09] <roots-> well its splitting hairs :)

[10:54:30] <roots-> in c++ not though, there it can and does cause subtle bugs

[10:54:36] <cybereal> roots-: right, but what I'm wondering is if in the case of x = x +1, when x is an int, if the compiler is smart enough to treat it like x+= 1

[10:56:07] <My2Cents> i just noticed i am set +ew :S

[10:56:17] <roots-> cybereal: ok with java things are different

[10:56:27] <roots-> have to distinguish between bytecode and what happens later on

[10:56:34] <cybereal> true

[10:56:34] <roots-> hotspot/jit compiling

[10:57:41] <roots-> and java has increment bytecodes

[10:57:49] <roots-> used for ++

[10:58:01] <roots-> so a++  and  a = a + 1 are not the same

[10:58:02] <cybereal> then primitive ordinals are considered mutable?

[10:58:21] <cybereal> or does that again depend on the vm's implementation?

[10:58:41] <cybereal> as I can't see it ever making any difference in code itself

[10:58:54] <roots-> you mean a++ and a=a + 1; ?

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[10:59:54] <roots-> that should be the same bytecode yeah

[11:00:12] <roots-> so any backend couldnt tell from just the bytecode what the original source was like

[11:00:34] <roots-> note that the inc bytecode can increment by n not just 1

[11:00:51] <My2Cents> roots-, yeah especially if you ever looked at some decomp java lol

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[11:02:19] <cybereal> I don't think Strings should work with + for concatenation, it's not fair that + works with String but not with my objects how I please! :P

[11:02:43] <My2Cents> lol

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[11:03:53] <linforcer> right. though I doubt ANYBODY here would do this but here it is : there is some java program online (Janimationshop) and it has  what I suspect  to be no more than a sight error, something someone who knows java could fix soon. (the developer didn't release any files on the project since 2004 so I doubt he'll help)   I don't suppose anyone would look ot it? :D

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[11:04:19] <roots-> linforcer: what is your problem ?

[11:05:32] <linforcer> roots-: just that it doesn't seem to detect the pictures (thus all the buttons look empty. It likely has to do with something the guy did making it in windows (the run and build files have a .bat extension and there's a thumbs.db in the icondir :P)

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[11:05:59] <My2Cents> thumbs.db is something that windows creates i believe

[11:06:02] <My2Cents> JAVABOT!

[11:06:08] <My2Cents> ~javabot++

[11:06:09] <javabot> javabot has a karma level of 31, My2Cents

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[11:06:18] <linforcer> My2Cents: I know I just wrote that to show that I can be sure he made it in windows

[11:06:36] <My2Cents> i doubt his program makes that file

[11:06:44] <My2Cents> windows xp makes that file

[11:07:04] <My2Cents> so you can see some pictures on the folder when outside that folder

[11:07:10] <linforcer> My2Cents: I know. Again, I just wrote it down to show that he did his programming in windows

[11:08:31] <My2Cents> is it written in java?

[11:08:35] <cybereal> linforcer: if you execute it from the command-line does it spout random junk?

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[11:08:49] <linforcer> cybereal: no no errors I think. let me check again

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[11:11:08] <My2Cents> well i am out

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[11:11:10] <My2Cents> night all

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[11:11:55] <IseeIsee> I want to draw an image on JPanel using Graphics2D & I want to move it using the up,down keys & I also want to detect collision of that image with Rectangle2D

[11:11:57] <linforcer> cybereal: no errors at all

[11:12:04] <IseeIsee> what should be the appropriate method

[11:12:09] <cybereal> linforcer: is it an open source application?

[11:12:12] <IseeIsee> I know about KeyListeners

[11:12:14] <linforcer> cybereal: there is one other thing though

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[11:12:25] <linforcer> cybereal: LGPL I think let me doublecheck

[11:12:31] <IseeIsee> and I don't get how to load the image such a way that I also use the intersects method to detect collision

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[11:12:52] <linforcer> cybereal: yes LGPL

[11:13:02] <linforcer> cybereal: there is one weird thing though

[11:13:07] <roots-> IseeIsee: create a rectangle with the bounds of the image

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[11:13:23] <roots-> an imagine doesnt have a position so you need to maintain that in your app (sprite class)

[11:13:34] <roots-> s/imagine/image/

[11:13:34] <cybereal> linforcer: maybe it's time for you to learn java :)

[11:13:49] <roots-> getWidth(null), getHeight(null) are available on an image instance though

[11:13:53] <linforcer> cybereal: the run.bat doesn't work, unless I rewrite the EXACT SAME thing the bat has in a new file and run that instead . must be something with whatever the guy used to create the text file

[11:14:12] <linforcer> cybereal: :( I don't have time. want to learn XUL first

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[11:14:34] <IseeIsee> can you explain more please

[11:14:45] <cybereal> linforcer: XUL is a waste of time still; honestly it sucks

[11:14:46] <IseeIsee> I can create a Rectangle and fill that rectangle with the image ?

[11:15:08] <cybereal> linforcer: I've seen bat files fuck up like that too; just an encoding error of some kind

[11:15:39] <cybereal> linforcer: I honestly have absolutely no idea what is wrong with the app except that it may have depended ona library from a previous JRE version that was in com.sun.* and is gone or changed

[11:15:42] <cybereal> I'm going to bed.

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[11:15:48] <linforcer> cybereal: yes yes and the python guys say C++ is a waste of time  and C++ guys say everything else is... I might as well learn assembly if I want to please ovoryone ;)

[11:16:32] <Honk^away> you wont please java devs by writing assembly :)

[11:17:07] <Honk^away> we love highlevel languages and hate lowlvl stuff.. everyone does

[11:18:08] <linforcer> Honk^away: >_> well I likes XUL so bweh

[11:18:37] <linforcer> ah well guess I'll use this program with empty buttons

[11:18:39] <linforcer> :P

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[11:26:09] <YogSothoth> Hi

[11:26:25] <YogSothoth> Just installed jEdit

[11:26:36] <YogSothoth> Now trying to start it

[11:26:43] <YogSothoth> and it says : GC Warning: Out of Memory!  Returning NIL!  Exception in thread "main" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError  <<No stacktrace available>>

[11:26:49] <YogSothoth> Can someone help me ?

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[11:30:35] <The_Ball> YogSothoth, /join #jedit they would probably know better

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[11:44:16] <NOthsouth> hello there!.. someone get some news about project Lookinglass?

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[12:08:07] <GetAGrip> hi all, I am getting class not found in policy tool even though the jar file containing class exists in the class path, any ideas???

[12:10:44] <GetAGrip> hi can someone help me with the error I am having with the policy tool???

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[12:16:20] <vakYpollo> GetAGrip: I know

[12:16:55] <vakYpollo> GetAGrip: sorry... I know how to edit by hand .policy files, not used policytool... but can you tell us if the class it can't found is a permission?

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[12:34:40] <IseeIsee> if I put an image in a HashMap

[12:34:51] <IseeIsee> the image will retain itself in the memory right ?

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[12:35:24] <vakYpollo> until the hashmap is garbaged collected.

[12:35:59] <IseeIsee> ok

[12:36:21] <IseeIsee> does anyone here has idea about TexturePaint

[12:36:38] <IseeIsee> I'm loading an image bounded by a Rectangle using TexturePaint

[12:36:42] <Meghan> Not the slighest clue.

[12:37:03] <IseeIsee> now I want to image on the JPanel

[12:37:10] <IseeIsee> I don't know how to do it

[12:37:30] <Meghan> Isnt there any usage instructions anywhere?

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[12:39:14] <vakYpollo> is there any way to double dispatch swing components?

[12:39:50] <vakYpollo> (wouldn't like to extends swing components to implement the Visitable part of a visitor pattern)

[12:39:56] <vakYpollo> s/extends/extend

[12:43:26] <roots-> what do you mean ?

[12:43:47] <roots-> IseeIsee: you are on the wrong track

[12:43:54] <vakYpollo> I would like to walk into a jcomponent tree to say.. localiza labels, enable/disable components, etc.

[12:44:02] <roots-> yuo wanted to make simple sprites only an hour ago

[12:44:53] <vakYpollo> visitor pattern would work, but I need an accept() method in every component, to make the douible dispatching.

[12:48:40] <sanj> if i serialize 3 objects in to a file and read it back , can i get the objects in any order

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[12:49:07] <roots-> no

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[12:49:39] <roots-> vakYpollo: you can make it work without that accept method by putting that into the visitor

[12:50:01] <roots-> but since people make their own derived swing classes it doesnt make sense anyhow

[12:50:08] <sanj> roots: will i have to read in the same order?

[12:50:28] <roots-> visitors with per-classtype methods make most sense if the set of types is fixed

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[12:51:05] <Epesh> sanj: no, they're serialized in the order you serialize them in

[12:51:23] <sanj> ok, Ty

[12:52:17] <sanj> so if i serialize A B C in one go , while i read it back it will  C, B,A?

[12:52:28] <vakYpollo> roots-: to traverse a component tree some code must be developed when a new component is added, because that component can be a container of some other components.

[12:52:31] <sanj> A,B,C being 3 objects

[12:52:49] <Epesh> sanj: no. It will read A,B,C.

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[12:53:06] <vakYpollo> roots-: example something like Frame that has a contentPane, a rootPane, etc.

[12:53:08] <sanj> ok

[12:53:14] <vakYpollo> s/Frame/JFrame

[12:54:10] <vakYpollo> roots-: so I should assume traverse code maintenance, but I would like to avoid if/else stuff.

[12:54:21] <vakYpollo> if/else/instanceof :)

[12:54:53] <Reikon> I got a bit of an issue. I added my classpath to the Manifest file for BC and it runs beautifully on Mac OS X, but doesn't run at all on Windows. I get a classdefnotfound error for BC. I "Uninstalled" BC on my Mac for 1.4.2 (had been running it with 1.5 which didn't have BC) to see if that was the problem. But even with the BC portion ocmmented out it runs on Mac fine. Any ideas as to why it isn't working properly on windows?

[12:56:25] <vakYpollo> roots-: I beleive this link can help me, thx: http://jroller.com/comments/santhosh/Weblog/more_scalable_object_oriented_visitor

[12:59:16] <Reikon> It's just weirding me out and I was hoping someone would have answer. I renamed it .zip on windows and deocmpressed it to make sur eeverything was in there right (even though I jarred it with verbrose) and everything is fine.

[12:59:24] <Reikon> the answer*

[13:00:09] <Epesh> BC?

[13:00:16] <Reikon> BouncyCastle

[13:00:22] <Reikon> http://bouncycastle.org

[13:00:24] <Drone> That URL gave the following error: java.net.UnknownHostException, bouncycastle.org

[13:00:31] <Reikon> o.0

[13:00:34] <Reikon> thats nice

[13:00:44] <Epesh> I know what it is, I just had no context for "BC" used like that.

[13:00:51] <Reikon> o

[13:01:00] <Epesh> However, .zip files should work fine in a manifest' classpath.

[13:01:14] <Reikon> yeah but it doesn't work as .zip or .jar

[13:01:20] <Reikon> it doesn't work at all on Windows

[13:01:23] <Reikon> but runs fine on mac

[13:01:45] <Epesh> then there's a bigger problem. WHat's the exact text of the manifest' classpath?

[13:01:54] <Reikon> Class-Path: bcprov-jdk14-130.jar

[13:01:58] <ricky_clarkson> Moin.

[13:02:03] <Reikon> Mornin

[13:02:13] <Epesh> Reikon: and that fails?

[13:02:15] <ricky_clarkson> Nah, it's afternoon.

[13:02:22] <Reikon> Yeah on Windows..

[13:02:38] <Reikon> I removed the Created-By:

[13:02:39] <Epesh> Reikon: where is that file?

[13:02:41] <ricky_clarkson> Reikon: Is that jar in the same directory as the jar you're trying to run?

[13:02:53] <Reikon> no it's within the Jar i'm trying to run XD

[13:02:56] <ricky_clarkson> Reikon: I see.  You're relying on magic again.

[13:03:00] <Reikon> yes!

[13:03:08] <ricky_clarkson> Reikon: Jars within jars is not a brilliant idea.

[13:03:25] <ricky_clarkson> ~single jar

[13:03:26] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'jar file specification' might be appropriate:

[13:03:28] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, jar file specification is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/jar/jar.html

[13:03:30] <ricky_clarkson> Ah.

[13:03:31] <ricky_clarkson> Er, gah.

[13:03:32] <Epesh> Reikon: no, that won't work without a custom classloader.

[13:03:51] <ricky_clarkson> Reikon: 3 options that I can think of.

[13:03:56] <ricky_clarkson> 1. Write a custom classloader.

[13:04:06] <ricky_clarkson> 2. Find an existing one (there's something called onejar or something iirc).

[13:04:22] <ricky_clarkson> 3. Put the jar in the same directory as the runnable jar.

[13:04:24] <Reikon> Why does it work on Mac then?

[13:04:44] <Epesh> Reikon: you'd have to look at something on the mac that's different.

[13:04:52] <ricky_clarkson> 4. (I can't count): Merge the two jars, i.e., put both the filesets into one jar.

[13:05:25] <Reikon> i can try that one >_>

[13:05:31] <Reikon> I'd rather have 1 jar

[13:05:38] <ricky_clarkson> Reikon: Maybe you did something different on the dirty mac, or the dirty mac does something different (remember Apple make their own Java stuff).

[13:05:49] <Reikon> Smart apple..

[13:05:56] <Reikon> at least it includes java by default

[13:05:57] <Meghan> Ewww

[13:06:03] <Meghan> Copying MS.

[13:06:06] <ricky_clarkson> Reikon: My Windows laptop came with Java 1.5.

[13:06:15] <Reikon> Windows it's self does not.

[13:06:16] <Epesh> Reikon: not "smart apple" to do something fundamentally different than the other JVMs.

[13:06:23] <ricky_clarkson> Reikon: Why should it?

[13:06:49] <ricky_clarkson> Surely the vendor should provide all extra stuff.

[13:06:50] <Reikon> Because it's a common place language.

[13:06:54] <Epesh> What if someone prefers jrockit? or IBM's JRE? Should WIndows include those or the Sun JVM?

[13:06:58] <Meghan> Not smart indeed, you're just taking java's strength away like that.

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[13:07:24] <ricky_clarkson> I think you're mistaking MS for a company which gives a shit.

[13:07:33] <Reikon> No...

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[13:07:46] <Reikon> I don't use windows. I make programs compatible with it.

[13:07:51] <Meghan> But Apple shouldn't do the same.

[13:08:10] <Reikon> Just like most Linuxes come with Java

[13:08:17] <ricky_clarkson> No they don't.

[13:08:22] <Reikon> Gentoo did.

[13:08:24] <Epesh> most linuxes come without a valid java.

[13:08:25] <ricky_clarkson> No it didn't.

[13:08:28] <Reikon> Yes it did :P

[13:08:33] <Meghan> They don't, not most of them.

[13:08:39] <Epesh> they come with kaffe or gcj, neither of which is valid.

[13:08:45] <Meghan> I remember it was a pain to install blackdown

[13:08:47] <Reikon> Ok, let me rephrase, most Linuxes I've used.

[13:08:48] <ricky_clarkson> You're telling me that Gentoo distributes Sun's JRE?

[13:09:00] <Eclipser> debian doesn't come with java :)

[13:09:05] <Reikon> Possibly in one of it's compiled binaries

[13:09:10] <ricky_clarkson> I'm telling you that you're wrong.

[13:09:14] <Reikon> whichis what I used

[13:09:47] <Reikon> You download the sources or use a tarballed binary?

[13:09:50] <ricky_clarkson> Afaik gentoo uses roughly the same thing as Debian, an installer package, that just asks the user to download Java and then handles it.

[13:09:56] <ricky_clarkson> I don't use Gentoo.

[13:10:09] <Reikon> Ok then.

[13:11:03] <Reikon> do I have to add the extra crap in /lib or can I just have it in the same dir?

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[13:11:53] <ricky_clarkson> Either, but if you put it in /lib you must specify that.

[13:11:59] <ricky_clarkson> I thought you were going to make one jar.

[13:12:03] <Reikon> I am...

[13:12:31] <ricky_clarkson> I extract both jars into a directory, e.g., buildjar/, then jar up that directory.

[13:12:36] <ricky_clarkson> Not tricky.

[13:15:00] <Honk^away> <ricky_clarkson> Afaik gentoo uses roughly the same thing as Debian, an installer package, that just asks the user to download Java and then handles it. <-- that's right :p

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[13:16:18] <ricky_clarkson> So Linux distros don't tend to come with Java(tm).

[13:18:17] <Meghan> Nope.

[13:18:54] * KingNato pines for Java 5

[13:21:23] <Honk^away> ricky_clarkson: mhh.. suse does :P

[13:22:34] <IseeIsee> if I draw a JPanel of size 680,680

[13:23:55] <teralaser> That would be icy,icy

[13:24:04] <teralaser> Ho. Ho.

[13:24:30] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: Careful about the parent layout manager..

[13:26:09] * hatOFF is almost done with his socket server ;)

[13:26:25] <IseeIsee> ok if I draw the JPanle of 680,680

[13:26:34] <IseeIsee> and then I draw a BufferedImage on to that JPanel

[13:27:12] <ricky_clarkson> I'd recommend a JLabel with an ImageIcon on it.

[13:27:32] <IseeIsee> can I detect collision in JLabel ?

[13:27:49] <ricky_clarkson> What?

[13:28:02] <IseeIsee> well here it is

[13:28:07] <IseeIsee> I'm making a small game

[13:28:10] <IseeIsee> and it has tanks in it

[13:28:13] <IseeIsee> the tanks are images

[13:28:17] <IseeIsee> there are blocks and other tanks too

[13:28:21] <ricky_clarkson> Great.

[13:28:24] <IseeIsee> so I need to detect collisions with blocks & walls

[13:28:40] <IseeIsee> and need to move the tanks

[13:28:55] <IseeIsee> so JLabel's won't do the job would they ?

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[13:30:19] <ricky_clarkson> Detecting collisions is nothing to do with how you display an image.

[13:37:35] <BULLE> ricky_clarkson: well, linux distros nowadays sometimes have crippled wierd java stuff, eg some of the non complete opensource implementations, it brings quite a lot of pain.

[13:37:46] <IseeIsee> ok I get it

[13:37:56] <ricky_clarkson> BULLE: Those are not Java.

[13:38:09] <IseeIsee> I was'nt taking into account the height of the image

[13:38:11] <IseeIsee> i get it

[13:38:14] <IseeIsee> thanks people

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[13:56:24] <mart_ian> ok.  #freebsd seems stuck on car-talk.  anyone here get a 64-bit java working in a BSD OS?

[13:56:49] <ricky_clarkson> Did you get that new motorbike, roots-?

[13:57:28] <Twiun> ricky_clarkson: I think he may already have crashed it

[13:57:42] <ricky_clarkson> les allemands..

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[14:02:30] <Twiun> ricky_clarkson: yeah, speed freaks

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[14:04:10] <onkarshinde> Consider I am having an xml file and an xslt (which transforms it to html) associated with it. Will JEditorPane or JTextPane directly display the transformed thing if I set the document source to xml?

[14:05:07] <ricky_clarkson> onkarshinde: tias?

[14:05:11] <ricky_clarkson> ~tias

[14:05:11] <javabot> Try It And See.  You look silly asking if something will work when you can just try it and see.

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[14:05:43] <onkarshinde> ricky_clarkson: Ok.

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[14:23:49] <delvinj> can anyone point me to an example if filtering the nodes of a jtree?

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[14:25:12] <roots-> delvinj: just dont add them

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[14:25:24] <delvinj> roots-: what if they are already there?

[14:25:37] <roots-> you could filter them with a proxy TreeModel

[14:25:44] <ricky_clarkson> Er, remove them?

[14:25:52] <roots-> but the contract of TreeModel is kinda strict

[14:26:08] <roots-> and you get failures at unexpected places if you violate the contract

[14:26:22] <delvinj> im just stumped trying to figure out how to get them back in at the correct location

[14:26:27] <delvinj> when the filter is removed

[14:27:55] * ricky_clarkson wants to write some code that does, in the fewest possible steps, connect to a database (hsqldb, in-memory), create a table, insert some values and select some data.  What do you reckon, about 15 lines?

[14:28:26] <roots-> 1 line

[14:28:27] <roots-> :>

[14:28:30] <roots-> you know why :)

[14:28:33] <ricky_clarkson> Perl?

[14:28:41] <roots-> nah, i mean just dont have linefeeds

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[14:28:50] <ricky_clarkson> 15 statements, then.

[14:28:52] <roots-> you could just use DDL from the db shell

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[14:29:17] <roots-> i mean jdbc's core usecase is querries not DDL statements Like create Table

[14:29:25] <ricky_clarkson> Hmm.

[14:29:28] <roots-> Faire Tableaux en francais

[14:29:46] <ricky_clarkson> je voudrais un cafe.

[14:29:59] <roots-> nous voudrais, je veut afaik

[14:30:00] <ricky_clarkson> au lait

[14:30:05] <roots-> late

[14:30:15] <roots-> for foreigners its usually served late yes :

[14:30:28] <ricky_clarkson> retard

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[14:30:44] <roots-> cafe retard

[14:30:54] <roots-> retard means late too

[14:31:07] <ricky_clarkson> Oui.

[14:31:40] <ricky_clarkson> Ich mochte ein Kaffe (nicht Java).

[14:31:49] <j4v4m4n> I'm facing some problems when compiling

[14:32:04] <j4v4m4n> it shows variable might not be initialised

[14:32:14] <j4v4m4n> but it is :-(

[14:32:16] <ricky_clarkson> j4v4m4n: The first is an unwillingness to post error messages.

[14:32:34] <ricky_clarkson> j4v4m4n: It might not be though.  It is possible for it not to be.

[14:33:00] <j4v4m4n> ricky_clarkson: just a minute

[14:33:01] <Drone> View jp's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8514

[14:33:47] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: db is null.

[14:34:02] <j4v4m4n> MyEx.java:116: variable ps might not have been initialized

[14:34:21] <j4v4m4n>                         System.out.println(j+" "+ps[j].num);

[14:34:22] <Epesh> j4v4m4n: so initialize it.

[14:34:22] <ricky_clarkson> j4v4m4n: I believe you, but I can't see code.

[14:34:49] <roots-> man these days its all about "best practise"

[14:34:50] <ricky_clarkson> [hint] don't paste here, use the pastebin.

[14:36:18] <j4v4m4n> ok I'll paste it there

[14:36:54] <Epesh> roots-: which DB do you use?

[14:37:08] <joaopaulo> ricky_clarkson, db is initialized with CreateConnection(), before i call InserirDadosCliente(...)

[14:37:30] <joaopaulo> it's wrong way?

[14:37:32] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: That's a different db.

[14:37:42] <roots-> Epesh: i have worked with  oracle, db2, mysql, psql, sysbase db anywhere, sapdb/adabas and some others

[14:37:46] <roots-> IMS too

[14:37:49] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: class X { int y; public void doSomething(){ int y=5;} }

[14:38:04] <roots-> if i was to choose a db for a project i'd choose oracle or postgres

[14:38:06] <Epesh> roots-: played with Cloudscape/Derby? (And I assume you didn't use IMS from Java)

[14:38:12] <roots-> depending on the project

[14:38:17] <roots-> nope, just with hsql

[14:38:23] <roots-> cloudscape is better i heard

[14:38:25] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: X x=new X(); x.doSomething(); System.out.println(x.y); what's the output?

[14:38:27] <roots-> but who knows

[14:38:37] <roots-> this project here uses DB anywhere which is small

[14:38:40] <Epesh> cloudscape and derby are virtually th same thing

[14:38:45] <roots-> from sybase bt not in-memory

[14:38:59] <j4v4m4n> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8515

[14:39:42] <ricky_clarkson> j4v4m4n: That file doesn't contain 'ps'.

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[14:42:29] <joaopaulo> ricky_clarkson, nullp.exception, thanks, i will take a better look on it

[14:42:31] <j4v4m4n> oops !! That was an old version

[14:42:51] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: X x=new X(); x.doSomething(); System.out.println(x.y); what's the output?

[14:42:57] <j4v4m4n> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8516

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[14:44:05] <ricky_clarkson> j4v4m4n: If in.available() returns 0 first time, then ps never gets initialised.

[14:44:16] <idpromnut> ~decompiler

[14:44:17] <javabot> idpromnut, I have no idea what decompiler is.

[14:44:21] <idpromnut> bah

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[14:44:27] <ricky_clarkson> ~jad

[14:44:28] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, jad is a Java decompiler, see http://www.kpdus.com/jad.html - It's also a MIDlet download descriptor.

[14:44:33] <idpromnut> danke! :)

[14:44:39] <ricky_clarkson> Kein problem.

[14:44:43] <idpromnut> that's exactly the one I was looking for

[14:44:57] * idpromnut 's harddrive just crashed

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[14:45:05] * ricky_clarkson just started laughing.

[14:45:24] <idpromnut> yup, I am an idiot

[14:45:43] <j4v4m4n> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8517  this is the data file it is reading

[14:45:52] <ricky_clarkson> j4v4m4n: Irrelevant.

[14:45:58] <j4v4m4n> ok

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[14:48:16] <ricky_clarkson> j4v4m4n: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8518 is the relevant parts of your code.

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[14:48:33] <ricky_clarkson> j4v4m4n: If an exception happens in 'some code' then ps will not be initialised.

[14:48:56] <ricky_clarkson> j4v4m4n: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8518 is the relevant parts of your code. (in case you missed it due to using a shitty IRC client).

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[14:49:05] <Drone> View ricky_clarkson's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8518

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[14:49:16] <ricky_clarkson>

[14:49:30] <ricky_clarkson> !s/ /I am a real piece of shit and so are netsplits/

[14:49:31] <Drone> ricky_clarkson: j4v4m4n:I am a real piece of shit and so are netsplitshttp://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8518 is the re

[14:49:53] <ricky_clarkson> um

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[14:50:33] * eidolon yawns.

[14:50:35] <ricky_clarkson> j4v4m4n: How are you getting on there?

[14:50:44] <eidolon> morninski.

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[14:50:55] <ricky_clarkson> afternoonsnowboard

[14:51:07] <eidolon> yukyuk,

[14:51:11] <eidolon> mmm.  winter sports soon.

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[14:51:36] <ricky_clarkson> Snowball fighting.

[14:52:59] <idpromnut> ok, step one done.  Now to buy a new HD for the powerbook.

[14:53:05] <j4v4m4n> ricky_clarkson:I'm trying

[14:53:31] <ricky_clarkson> j4v4m4n: Consider a simpler code example.

[14:53:42] <eidolon> mm.  upgrades.  i did a bunch of ordering last night.  going from 768meg to 2gig in the laptop, etc.

[14:53:55] <ricky_clarkson> j4v4m4n: int x; if (true) x=5; System.out.println(x);

[14:54:11] <ricky_clarkson> j4v4m4n: If the condition was false instead of true, then x wouldn't have been initialised.

[14:54:43] <ricky_clarkson> So Java will give you a nice compile error for that.

[14:55:29] <ricky_clarkson> j4v4m4n: You follow?

[14:55:40] <sanj> does any itext user's know what causes this error?ExceptionConverter: java.io.IOException: The document has no pages.

[14:56:01] <sanj> Exception*

[14:56:19] <ricky_clarkson> You spelled it right anyway.

[14:57:06] <j4v4m4n> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8519

[14:57:16] <j4v4m4n> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8520

[14:57:27] <j4v4m4n> well I'll try a simpler one

[14:57:51] <ricky_clarkson> Yes, ps might not have been initialised.

[14:57:57] <ricky_clarkson> Can't you see that?

[14:58:17] <joaopaulo> ricky_clarkson, did i need a "Connection db = DriverManager.getConnection..." in every method that uses the database?

[14:58:29] <ricky_clarkson> An exception might have happened.  If an exception happened then ps would not have been initialised.

[14:58:41] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: No, this is a basic language error, not database-specific.

[14:58:49] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: That's why I gave you a tiny code snippet.

[14:59:27] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: class X { int y; public void doSomething(){ int y=5; } } X x=new X(); x.doSomething(); System.out.println(x.y);

[14:59:32] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: What's the output?

[14:59:52] <j4v4m4n> let me try it

[15:00:02] <joaopaulo> ricky_clarkson, 0

[15:00:09] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: Do you know why?

[15:00:45] <joaopaulo> no

[15:00:56] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: int y; is a declaration.

[15:01:03] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: int y=5; is a declaration and initialisation.

[15:01:14] <ricky_clarkson> Every declaration declares a *new* variable (or field).

[15:01:31] <ricky_clarkson> So the two int y;s in the code snippet are not related.

[15:01:35] <ricky_clarkson> They just happen to have the same name.

[15:01:47] <ricky_clarkson> The one inside the method can be said to be 'shadowing' or 'overriding' the outer one.

[15:02:22] <joaopaulo> i understood that, but why 0 ? the first declaration (int y) have the value 0 per default?

[15:02:30] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: Yes.

[15:02:54] <ricky_clarkson> All fields are initialised to 0, null or false (depending on their type).

[15:03:40] <ricky_clarkson> Any smart-arses who want to point out a special case WILL be proved wrong. ;)

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[15:05:43] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: One way of forcing yourself to remember to set a variable is to make it final.

[15:05:53] <j4v4m4n> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8521

[15:05:55] <j4v4m4n> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8522

[15:06:17] <ricky_clarkson> j4v4m4n: Great, but do you understand it?

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[15:07:05] <ricky_clarkson> Lost cause?

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[15:08:13] <ricky_clarkson> j4v4m4n: Great, but do you understand it?

[15:08:33] <j4v4m4n> I got it but how I'll overcome it

[15:09:14] <j4v4m4n> vs = new vertex[nv];

[15:09:15] <ricky_clarkson> Only use ps after you've set it (i.e., in the same {}).

[15:09:27] * eidolon lives in f33r of ricky every getting his mitts on the code i write.  the scream of anguish (his or mine as he eviscerates me) will be impressive.

[15:09:28] <j4v4m4n> System.out.println(vs[j].sln+" "+vs[j].x+" "+vs[j].y+" "+vs[j].y);

[15:09:40] <j4v4m4n> didn't cause any probs

[15:09:55] <ricky_clarkson> j4v4m4n: Because you used vs after you set it.

[15:12:40] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell j4v4m4n about pm

[15:12:40] <javabot> j4v4m4n, pm is something you should do to bots, like me and Drone, but not to other users without asking politely.

[15:13:49] <j4v4m4n> sorry for that

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[15:14:42] <paulweb515> ~what is pm

[15:14:42] <javabot> I already have a factoid with that name, paulweb515

[15:14:52] <paulweb515> ~pm

[15:14:52] <javabot> paulweb515, pm is something you should do to bots, like me and Drone, but not to other users without asking politely.

[15:15:06] <j4v4m4n> ps is used after the initialisation only, even then it is showing error

[15:15:12] <paulweb515> Sorry, I was trying to figure out what pm stand for :-)

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[15:16:33] <j4v4m4n> paulweb515: it is personal message if I'm not wrong

[15:16:53] <paulweb515> ah

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[15:22:45] <joaopaulo> ricky_clarkson, works, thank u again

[15:23:15] <ricky_clarkson> j4v4m4n: But ps is not initialised.  Not definitely anyway.

[15:23:42] <ricky_clarkson> j4v4m4n: Ok, your easiest way to sort this out is to initialise ps when you declare it.  ps=new place[somevalue].

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[15:23:55] <ricky_clarkson> But that's likely to cause you problems later.  You might not care.

[15:24:08] <ricky_clarkson> Frankly I've given up.

[15:28:35] <j4v4m4n> ricky_clarkson: I guess I got it

[15:29:05] <j4v4m4n> ricky_clarkson: I can use ps inside the loop itself

[15:29:19] <j4v4m4n> ricky_clarkson: Now I'm using it outside the loop

[15:29:41] <j4v4m4n> I'm getting it if I try itinside the loop itself

[15:29:45] <ricky_clarkson> j4v4m4n: Yes, and after the loop it isn't guaranteed to be initialised, because the loop isn't guaranteed to happen.

[15:30:11] <j4v4m4n> ricky_clarkson: Hey Thanks a lot

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[15:36:49] <rizzo> Are there any Russian speakers here?

[15:37:52] <BULLE> rizzo: we tend to speak english here

[15:37:53] <eidolon> me checks.

[15:38:00] <eidolon> nope, mine are made by Sony.

[15:38:07] <BULLE> eidolon: harharhar

[15:38:17] <eidolon> thank you thank you.  i'm here til thursday!

[15:38:33] <rizzo> BULLE: yes I know.  I just have a question about a russian translation that was provided to me for a java app I wrote.

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[15:39:16] <jpfarias> hey dudes

[15:39:28] <jpfarias> how do I convert an int to a enum?

[15:39:37] <paulweb515> Olla, miho ... commo est-a?

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[15:41:17] <rizzo> anyway this Russian translator provided the properties file and all the strings are escaped text.  He said it was unicode and that is what java requires.  I'm not too familiar with non-latin charsets so I was wondering if someone could confirm that

[15:41:45] <eidolon> jpfarias: http://www.rgagnon.com/javadetails/java-0004.html

[15:43:17] <jpfarias> [eidolon] I want an enum from an integer... this only explain converting among primitives

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[15:43:37] <philosophia> hey

[15:43:43] <Honk^away> jpfarias: what's the sense in making an enum from an int?

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[15:44:18] <hatOFF> hey mohadib! are you around here?

[15:44:32] <jpfarias> that's because I'm converting old code to java 5

[15:44:46] <jpfarias> and some places needs to use an integer

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[15:44:57] <jpfarias> which I need to convert to an enum

[15:45:04] <jpfarias> somewhere else

[15:45:08] <jpfarias> =(

[15:45:33] <Honk^away> that doesnt make sense :P

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[15:46:05] <rizzo> An example of this russian translation file is:

[15:46:06] <rizzo> add=\u0414\u043E\u0431\u0430\u0432\u0438\u0442\u044C

[15:46:24] <Honk^away> rizzo: no clue if it's russian, but it's valid java for sure :P

[15:46:40] <Honk^away> just sysout that :)

[15:47:06] <rizzo> I just want to be sure it's not some illegal instruction set this guy is trying to get me to plant in my app ;)

[15:47:10] <Chmmr> rizzo, looks OK. All russian letters must have 04 at high byte

[15:47:25] <rizzo> Chmmr: ok thanks.

[15:47:46] <rizzo> yeah all the lines have thath \04 for each char

[15:48:06] <Honk^away> everyone should be using utf-8 =D

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[15:51:36] <roots-> rizzo: nope

[15:51:45] <roots-> \u unicode escape sequences are valid in properties files

[15:51:46] <rizzo> roots-: ?

[15:52:03] <rizzo> roots-: "nope" re my fears of it being a trojan?

[15:52:05] <roots-> these are escapes and interpreted correctly when a properties file is read

[15:52:13] <roots-> yipp, its common

[15:52:16] <rizzo> ok thanks

[15:52:26] <roots-> wnp

[15:52:32] <BULLE> why is my brain to stupid to grasp this serialization mess im trying to understand ?

[15:52:38] <rizzo> I don't even know if it is possible to hide some kind of trojan/malware in a stupid props file but best to be safe

[15:52:52] <roots-> BULLE: because it is an ikea-brain ? :)

[15:52:57] <Honk^away> rizzo: it's not ;)

[15:53:08] <Honk^away> unless you do some nasty tricks to interpret the propfile

[15:54:04] <BULLE> roots-: ahaha, ye, most likely =)

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[15:57:29] * keyhack hugs pr3d4t0r

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[16:01:07] <grifis> why i've got a NumberFormatException with String newoffset = new String(buffer); fd.newoffsetp = Integer.parseInt(newoffset); ??

[16:01:33] <Drone> View grifis's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8523

[16:02:46] <roots-> how many chars did get read ?

[16:02:52] <roots-> check read() return value

[16:03:02] <Honk^away> what's in? :)

[16:03:06] <roots-> this is a hazardous construct

[16:03:16] <roots-> if you read 2 chars you end up with char1, char2, 0, 0

[16:03:18] <roots-> in your char array

[16:03:24] <roots-> you build a string from the entire array

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[16:05:12] <pr3d4t0r> Good morning.

[16:05:36] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: You around?

[16:05:36] <Chmmr> When I handle mouse events, should I call event.consume() after that?

[16:05:40] <keyhack> oh hehe

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[16:05:47] * keyhack squeezes pr3d4t0r in a big hug

[16:05:53] <roots-> Chmmr: depends

[16:06:00] <roots-> on whether you want someone else to handle it or not

[16:06:06] <roots-> eg another listener on the same component

[16:06:10] <BULLE> Chmmr: generaly no, as other things might listen to the events

[16:06:20] <roots-> good answer yes

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[16:06:28] <BULLE> you never know who is listening...

[16:06:28] <roots-> dont mess with it unless you know why and how it works :)

[16:06:52] <BULLE> ye

[16:06:59] <pr3d4t0r> Rinnnnng

[16:07:05] <Chmmr> If there is no other listeners on component

[16:07:06] <BULLE> pr3d4t0r: TALIBAN!

[16:07:42] <BULLE> pr3d4t0r: if it was the ring ring ring TALIBAN thing you were thinking of, atleast it made me think of it

[16:08:02] <grifis> roots-: i think that i received 4 bytes...but only 3 bytes are significant! if ( in.read(buffer,0,4) != 4) returns no errors

[16:08:24] <roots-> you received 4 chars

[16:08:27] <roots-> not bytes

[16:08:41] <roots-> you have a Reader there

[16:08:43] <roots-> not a Stream

[16:09:09] <roots-> otherwise you'd get a compile error, streams work on bytes (binary) and readers on chars (characters) and important: stream CONVERT

[16:09:38] <grifis> ok, i'll try to fix, you're right

[16:09:53] <roots-> fix what ?

[16:10:18] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Everything works and it all makes sense. I have a working server service and a connecting client service, all generated by my XSD/WSDL spec, and it just, seems too simple :-) (I'm not fond of the long class names like "GetServerInfoSOAPBindingStub", but it'll work). I do have a small design question if you do have a moment to spare (or a URL reference)

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[16:11:09] <Geren> hi

[16:11:18] <Geren>  in java, what are some wrapper classes for primitive types

[16:11:20] <Geren> like what methods

[16:11:28] <pr3d4t0r> Geren: ...

[16:11:33] <Geren> is it like Integer.toString("string")?

[16:11:34] <roots-> ~wrapper

[16:11:35] <javabot> roots-, I have no idea what wrapper is.

[16:11:44] <pr3d4t0r> Geren: The wrapper classes are Integer, Char, Float, Double, Boolean, etc.

[16:11:48] <grifis> roots-: i think that i have to use stream reader not buffered reader

[16:11:52] <pr3d4t0r> Geren: Look in java.lang

[16:12:09] <pr3d4t0r> Geren: The second part of your question is panda-ready so I'll pretend I didn't see it.

[16:12:14] <Geren> pr3d4t0r, and they each contain methods that can be used on the primitive types like integer, float, etc, right?

[16:12:22] <grifis> roots-: my c client send 4 bytes

[16:12:28] <pr3d4t0r> Geren: Give me an R!

[16:12:34] <Geren> pr3d4t0r, huh?

[16:12:37] <pr3d4t0r> Geren: Give me a T!

[16:12:43] <pr3d4t0r> Geren: Give me an F!

[16:12:49] <pr3d4t0r> Geren: Give me an M!

[16:12:53] <pr3d4t0r> What does it say?

[16:13:00] <roots-> read the fine manual

[16:13:13] * pr3d4t0r puts on his short, short skirt and shakes the pompoms

[16:13:17] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: roots-++

[16:13:19] <javabot> roots- has a karma level of 22, pr3d4t0r

[16:13:51] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Ask away.

[16:14:00] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: I'm about to go running so whatever it is, it better be short.

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[16:14:31] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Well, I had it, and now I don't remember

[16:14:53] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: But are the classes like GetServerInfoSOAPBindingStub usually kept like that?

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[16:16:03] <gripmaster> hello guys, can someone tell me if OLE is posible with java ?

[16:16:05] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Same directory as your Axis objects.

[16:16:16] <pr3d4t0r> gripmaster: Possible?  Sure.

[16:16:20] <pr3d4t0r> gripmaster: Easy?  No.

[16:16:33] <gripmaster> :-/

[16:16:34] <gripmaster> why ?

[16:16:35] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: And I do remember now, I've read security practices about digitally signing the XML document and even going as far as encrypting it, but besides making sure the data cannot be seen (or that it indeed did come who they said they were), is there a good way (in your opinion), to receive user/pass information? I've read that you should pass data like that in a SOAP header, just wanted to know what you thought

[16:16:53] <cheeser> gripmaster: because OLE is a windows thing.  you'll need either JNI or a bridging lib for it.

[16:16:55] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: No, I know where they are supposed to go, I was talking about the long nature of the class names

[16:17:04] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Read the part about security in my presentation.

[16:17:11] <cheeser> if you're lucky, someone's already written that code.  if not, you'll have to write a bunch of JNI code.

[16:17:25] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: There are no security facilities in Axis so you have to come up with your own security policies and implementations.

[16:17:52] <gripmaster> cheeser, im pretty sure noone did :-(

[16:17:59] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Right, I had read that, and the things I've read were digitally signing, encrypting, and passing logins via SOAP headers, was inquiring further in your opinions

[16:18:10] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: I think those names are bad because:  they're too short where they aren't supposed to be; too long where they aren't supposed to be; too non-descriptive.

[16:18:10] <cheeser> gripmaster: i am, too.

[16:18:11] <cheeser> 8^)=

[16:18:40] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Unless you're using something with WS-Security, none of the above.  Use SSL and be done with it.

[16:18:59] <gripmaster> ;-) ok thanks anyway. i'll google around and try to find out some more

[16:19:12] <pr3d4t0r> gripmaster: There are bridging libraries.  You'll just have to start digging to find one :)

[16:19:12] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: SSL just ensures the data is encrypted, but it does not allow me to authenticate the connecting client and determine whether or not he should be receiving a set of data

[16:19:23] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: SSL plus basic auth.

[16:19:31] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: And filters.

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[16:19:55] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Otherwise, I'd handle that in the application space altogether.

[16:20:12] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Until Axis gets that support, the solutions that you propose are tough to implemente.

[16:20:16] <pr3d4t0r> Er, implement.

[16:20:23] <keyhack> hmm righto

[16:21:02] <pr3d4t0r> ::yawn::

[16:21:31] <keyhack> this is going to be a tier network model, where each machine is in its own right running the API server and also talking to other services via the API service (and each server in its own right allowing clients to connect in), so I'm trying to find a simple means, like a simple Credentials object that just needs to be passed in with any Request (or maybe only requests that need to have privledges)

[16:21:56] <cheeser> you should also look at xfire.

[16:22:07] <roots-> pixies on the radio

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[16:22:14] * doc|work hugs the pixies

[16:22:17] <cheeser> http://xfire.codehaus.org/

[16:22:21] <roots-> . o O (where is my mind ...)

[16:23:02] <pr3d4t0r> cheeser: prettyboy's Xfire is nice but it has even less documentation than Axis.

[16:23:13] <cheeser> apparently it *needs* less.

[16:23:13] <cheeser> 8^)=

[16:23:37] <cheeser> i think the SOAP spec is a tad overcomplicated anyway.

[16:24:28] <keyhack> well, Axis takes care of it very beautifully :-)

[16:24:46] <keyhack> I just need to add this component of preventing certain calls being made by people/machines without credentials

[16:25:28] <cheeser> keyhack: yeah, i used Axis on a previous project.  the wsdl2java tool was a life saver.

[16:25:34] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Like most XML shit, SOAP is overengineered.

[16:25:38] <cheeser> though it didn't like having https endpoints at the time.

[16:25:45] <keyhack> cheeser: Just figured that out :-)

[16:25:48] <cheeser> pr3d4t0r: it's not sun's fault this time!  blame the w3c!

[16:25:51] <cheeser> keyhack: hehe

[16:25:51] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: And that's for a reason:  so that IBM and Microsoft could sell you lots of tools.

[16:26:00] <keyhack> lol yeah

[16:26:01] <pr3d4t0r> cheeser: Actually, IBM and Microsoft.

[16:26:15] <pr3d4t0r> cheeser: The W3C more or less rubberstamped that one.

[16:26:17] <cheeser> well, yeah, but the w3c approved the spec, yes?

[16:26:40] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: So would making certain methods take a Credentials object seem too... wrong? lol

[16:26:43] <pr3d4t0r> cheeser: Yup.

[16:27:05] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Not really.  There's nothing wrong with application-level authentication/validation.

[16:28:02] <grifis> roots-: i've fixed with newoffset.trim() ...so no NumberException using Integer.parseInt(newoffset);

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[16:29:05] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: So then its a mere change of <message name="getServerInfoRequest"/> to <message name="getServerInfoRequest"><part name="parameters" element="types:Credentials"></message> :-)

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[16:34:52] <Ansalon> morning

[16:35:05] <littlezoper> hmm...xfire...

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[16:36:43] <Ansalon> I'm not a developer, just trying to setup an environment, i have something called pCOS java edition and I don't understand where I need to load the .so

[16:36:51] <Ansalon> in the instructions it says:

[16:36:51] <Ansalon> the library libpcos_java.so (on Mac OS X: libpcos_java.jnilib) must be

[16:36:51] <Ansalon> placed in one of the default locations for shared libraries,

[16:37:07] <Ansalon> is there a defauly shared library location for java?

[16:37:44] <Ansalon> err defauly = default

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[16:38:45] <littlezoper> Ansalon: for me, on a FC4 box, the JVM is installed in /usr/lib/jvm/java-1.5.0-sun/

[16:39:05] <littlezoper> you could also just drop the .so in /usr/lib and rerun ldconfig

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[16:39:48] <Ansalon> oh, I didn't realize I had to run ldconfig after putting it in that directory

[16:40:21] <Meghan> Hello again

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[16:42:34] <cordor> how many option available for caching system? jcs and oscache? what else?

[16:42:37] <littlezoper> Ansalon: yeah...have to rebuild the cache

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[16:42:52] <cheeser> cordor: a bunch

[16:43:02] <cheeser> google can probably find them for you

[16:44:20] <cordor> cheeser: just trying to find out the best

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[16:44:30] <cheeser> cordor: "best" is relative and subjective.

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[16:48:48] <cordor> cheeser: that's why i didn't ask about which one is the best. found an interest page http://java-source.net/open-source/cache-solutions/oscache

[16:49:02] <cheeser> from opensymphony.com

[16:51:38] <cordor> mmm, they have a list of cache solution at the bottom of the page

[16:52:18] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Ping...

[16:52:40] <pr3d4t0r> I guess he finally went to work.

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[16:53:41] <Meghan> pr3d4t0r was the routing problem fixed?

[16:53:49] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: Let me check the Internet.

[16:53:58] * pr3d4t0r checks on Verio and Level3.

[16:54:21] * pr3d4t0r slams the hood down on Verio.  Kicks the tires on Level3.

[16:54:29] * pr3d4t0r checks the oil level on both.

[16:54:36] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: Yeah, the Internet is fixed.

[16:54:37] <Meghan> lol

[16:54:52] <Meghan> Yay.

[16:55:06] <Meghan> I wish "my" last program was fixed too.

[16:56:00] <cheeser> Meghan: it's probably a gender thing.

[16:56:01] <cheeser> 8^)=

[16:56:05] <Meghan> heh

[16:56:56] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: Don't you feel sometimes that you're walking around with a bullseye painted on your back?

[16:57:11] <Meghan> You can say that again

[16:57:34] * cheeser waits for it.

[16:57:46] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: Don't you feel sometimes that you're walking around with a bullseye painted on your back?

[16:58:26] * Meghan nods heavily.

[16:59:03] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Hey

[16:59:13] * Meghan is going to post her bin soon

[16:59:25] * Meghan has to fix that last buggram.. err program.

[16:59:32] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: I'm re-structuring my WSDL and trying to re-generate my Java code, but I hate how I have to include like 12 JARs on the path every time :-)

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[16:59:37] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: http://www.rifers.org/blogs/jboyens/2005/10/20/deploying_apache_axis

[16:59:55] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: CLASSPATH is a beautiful thing.

[17:00:16] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: make is another beautiful thing.

[17:00:21] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Ant is a wonderful thing.

[17:00:30] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: I was going to do it in ant ;-)

[17:00:42] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Hell, bash and CMD.EXE are nice too.

[17:00:50] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Yeah, I figured.

[17:01:36] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: No you didn't, so don't lie now

[17:01:42] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: Sorted?

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[17:02:20] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Dude, you're like the prototypical Java programmer.  Of course I figured you'd be using Ant.

[17:03:10] <cheeser> ant owns.

[17:03:15] * ricky_clarkson eats peanut butter.  From the jar.  No cutlery.

[17:03:18] <Meghan> Ants are small though.

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[17:03:26] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: ...

[17:03:40] <Meghan> ^^

[17:03:40] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: heh, well I'm dealing with WSDL issues, it seems to be not importing my XSD (saying Element "Server" is referenced but not defined)

[17:03:40] <ricky_clarkson> An ant can carry things 30 times its own weight.

[17:03:59] <Meghan> Yeah, they use oxygen.

[17:04:07] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: They're tasty.

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[17:04:12] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: Especially their larvae.

[17:04:18] <pr3d4t0r> Meghan: And expensive.

[17:04:24] <ricky_clarkson> An American can't even keep its *own* body upright.

[17:06:00] <Drone> View Meghan's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8525

[17:06:02] <joaopaulo> ricky_clarkson, sorted?

[17:06:18] <Meghan> Could any of use please tell me why this doesn't work? I'd be REALLY thankful.

[17:06:36] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Would WSDL2Java complain if it could not import the XSD?

[17:06:39] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: Your problem.

[17:06:47] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Maybe not.

[17:06:48] <ricky_clarkson> Meghan: this?

[17:06:51] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: I don't know.

[17:06:58] <Meghan> Yeah up there.

[17:07:05] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: I'd have to look at your XML, and I don't look at XML unless I'm being paid lots of $$.

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[17:07:24] <ricky_clarkson> I just got here and I'm too lazy to keep hitting page up.

[17:07:32] <joaopaulo> ricky_clarkson, was wierd for me the solution, will ready about it tonight, a simple "db = db;" fix everything

[17:07:34] <Meghan> Heh.

[17:07:38] <ricky_clarkson> Ah, nm, I see it.

[17:07:45] <pr3d4t0r> OKi kids, have a great day.

[17:08:03] <Meghan> You too pr3d4t0r

[17:08:19] <ricky_clarkson> Meghan: Is there an associated error or exception?

[17:08:50] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: No, must be this.db=db;

[17:09:07] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: Simply remove 'Connect' from 'Connect db=whatever'.

[17:09:24] <Meghan> I don't have a compiler on the uni's comp but I've my laptop with me, let me compile it again.

[17:09:37] <Meghan> To tell you exactly where.

[17:09:53] <ricky_clarkson> Try telling us what went wrong while you're doing that.

[17:09:55] <The_Ball> I'm trying to draw an image but nothing apears in the GUI, have I left out something obvious? -> http://rafb.net/paste/results/LOiML722.html

[17:09:57] <ricky_clarkson> Might be easy to spot.

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[17:10:29] <ricky_clarkson> Meghan: Oh, and please don't speak Scouse in here. *shudder*

[17:10:42] <Meghan> Scouse?

[17:10:50] <Eno_> what is a good java decompiler that provides some readable source? my prof provided a class file and there is a bug somewhere, but he didn't provide the source so i don't know if the bug is in the .class or in my sources

[17:11:00] <ricky_clarkson> Meghan: could one of *'use'* help

[17:11:11] <ricky_clarkson> ~jad

[17:11:11] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, jad is a Java decompiler, see http://www.kpdus.com/jad.html - It's also a MIDlet download descriptor.

[17:11:21] <Eno_> thank you

[17:11:32] <Meghan> Ah, k.

[17:11:40] <tmh> Eno_, before you waste too much time decompile, be sure it is not your source.

[17:11:52] <Meghan> I get 18 errors still, most of which strike incompatible type boolean.

[17:12:00] <Meghan> Me and nater have kept fixing things and other things break.

[17:12:08] <Meghan> Maybe its the lack of sleep and stress.

[17:12:32] <Eno_> tmh: it might be my source, but i might be able to better spot where the bug is if i can see what the class is doing

[17:12:37] * pr3d4t0r was going to say lack of brains but he refrains.

[17:12:47] * pr3d4t0r whistles innocently...

[17:12:52] <Meghan> Eno_ which one?

[17:13:04] <ricky_clarkson> Meghan: if (x==y==z) doesn't work (unless z is a boolean).

[17:13:05] * Meghan mutters

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[17:13:13] * pr3d4t0r ponders if it's a gender thing...

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[17:13:16] <tmh> Eno_, ah, so the prof sent out a class file with minimal documentation?

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[17:13:47] <Eno_> its a .class file that has a main() method that uses a whole bunch of classes we wrote

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[17:14:20] <tmh> Sounds unnecessarily complicated.

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[17:14:40] <Meghan> ricky_clarkson where do you mean? which if?

[17:14:57] <ricky_clarkson> Meghan: line 65, for example.

[17:15:03] <Meghan> k

[17:15:14] <sk1> In a GridLayout, is it possible to specify the row and column you want a particular object placed?

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[17:15:51] <ricky_clarkson> sk1: No, you just add stuff in the order you want it placed.

[17:16:05] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell sk1 about percentlayout

[17:16:05] <javabot> sk1, percentlayout is http://lavender.cime.net/~ricky/percentlayout.html

[17:16:11] <Meghan> ricky_clarkson do you see any remedy for that? :/

[17:16:51] <ricky_clarkson> Meghan: Yes, if (x==y==z) is better written as if (x==y && y==z)

[17:17:27] <Meghan> ok let me convert those...

[17:18:01] <ricky_clarkson> [haha, one could write a areAllEqual(int... args) ;) ]

[17:19:19] <Meghan> Woot, down to 10 errors.

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[17:20:16] <Meghan> ricky_clarkson CheckValid(freshgrid, grid);

[17:20:34] <Meghan> says incompatible type, found int required boolean

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[17:21:57] <ricky_clarkson> Meghan: I think your source is different to the paste.

[17:22:11] <tezem> I have a new clean string and want to concat this string with another but the main string remains clean. Whats the problem?

[17:22:25] <cheeser> tezem: strings are immutable

[17:22:29] <cheeser> javabot: tell tezem about show us

[17:22:30] <javabot> tezem, Paste the code in the pastebin where we can see it.  See the topic (/topic) for details.

[17:22:34] <ricky_clarkson> tezem: No problem, but you can't change a String.

[17:22:48] <Meghan> Its still up on the same page.

[17:22:57] <tezem> ah yes I remember. thx

[17:22:59] <Meghan> Just trying to fix different parts of it.

[17:23:20] <ricky_clarkson> Meghan: Paste the current code.

[17:23:37] <ricky_clarkson> No.

[17:24:30] <Meghan> ok

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[17:25:37] * Meghan uses the usb key...

[17:25:47] <Meghan> I wish they had wireless in these zones.

[17:26:29] <Drone> View Meghan's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8526

[17:26:33] <Meghan> New c0de

[17:27:20] <tmh> In CheckValid, where do you return anything?

[17:28:01] <Drone> View ricky_clarkson's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8527

[17:28:05] <ricky_clarkson> Meghan: ^^

[17:28:32] <cheeser> ricky_clarkson: there *is* a reason for new String()

[17:28:41] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: Which is?

[17:28:45] <cheeser> setting default values is fine

[17:28:50] <cheeser> new String(byte[])

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[17:29:03] * Meghan reads and edits

[17:29:08] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: Ok, no reason for new String(String)

[17:29:20] <cheeser> comparing boolean values to boolean literals is retarded

[17:30:06] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: Setting default values prevents the compiler telling you when you didn't get your logic right.

[17:30:06] <ricky_clarkson> It's not bad per se, but in this case it's completely unnecessary.

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[17:30:35] <dingo001> hey all

[17:30:36] <dingo001> need some help in optimizing an xml search

[17:30:39] <cheeser> i set default values on local vars.  mainly because I have to.

[17:30:59] <dingo001> i have a 20MB xml file which I read into memory and run xpath searches, using saxon

[17:31:05] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: On all local vars?

[17:31:08] <Meghan> What should I call the methods? add an

[17:31:10] <Meghan> _?\

[17:31:15] <Meghan> Gods this keyboard sucks.

[17:31:24] <dingo001> but the response time is 2-3 seconds, how can i cut it down to less than a second

[17:31:31] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Meghan about conventions

[17:31:32] <javabot> Meghan, conventions is http://java.sun.com/docs/codeconv/html/CodeConvTOC.doc.html , or "ThisIsAClassName, thisIsAVariableOrMethodName, THIS_IS_A_CONSTANT_NAME"

[17:31:47] <Meghan> ah

[17:32:07] <cheeser> ricky_clarkson: yeah.

[17:32:55] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: dibblego would bore you to death about that.  I will simply say that having the compiler tell you a variable might not be initialised is useful to find gaps in your if..else or whatever code.

[17:33:11] <roots-> seen Logi

[17:33:15] <roots-> !seen Logi

[17:33:16] <cheeser> ricky_clarkson: sure.  but i've not had a problem with not handling vars correctly.

[17:33:16] <Drone> Logi (Logi!i=logir at klaki dot net) was last seen in ##java on Tue 18 Oct 2005 17:46 GMT, saying 'cheeser: is blah a keyword then?'.

[17:33:28] <Meghan> I love replace all :)

[17:33:35] <cheeser> and dibblego has bored me already with stuff I don't agree with so what's one more?

[17:33:38] <cheeser> 8^)=

[17:33:38] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: You must therefore be representative of all Java programmers.

[17:34:01] <cheeser> well, if so, i demand a pay raise.  my, er, *our* voice deserves to be heard!

[17:34:43] <littlezoper> cheeser: double your pay!

[17:34:47] <cheeser> but, seriously, i find most statements about "representative of java programmers" or "all java programmers" to be trite, meaningless, and devoid of anything useful.

[17:36:00] <ricky_clarkson> My point is that just because it isn't uesful to you doesn't make it useless.

[17:36:17] * ricky_clarkson might refactor that sentence to add grammar.

[17:36:40] <cheeser> i didn't say it was useless.

[17:36:47] <cheeser> i said i declare default values.

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[17:36:57] <ricky_clarkson> And you've never had trouble.

[17:37:05] <ricky_clarkson> Other people might have trouble.

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[17:37:16] <cheeser> sure. i have no problem with that.

[17:37:57] <ricky_clarkson> Look, there an infinite number of monkeys writing Java code, and if there's a way of doing it badly, an infinite number of them will.

[17:38:14] * cheeser is still waiting for a point that makes sense.

[17:38:28] <littlezoper> is this going to boil down to some silly, pointless academic argument?

[17:38:34] <tmh> I'm for puppies.

[17:38:40] <ricky_clarkson> "Don't set things to default values, you don't actually want default values to be

[17:38:40] <cheeser> we're not disagreeing here but I feel as if there's some disagreement somewhere in there.

[17:38:42] <ricky_clarkson> given back to you later (=false and =0 in code)."

[17:38:49] <ricky_clarkson> You disagreed with that, iirc.

[17:39:06] <cheeser> 09:28 < cheeser> setting default values is fine

[17:39:24] <cheeser> which is different than saying "only retards don't set default values"

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[17:39:39] <ricky_clarkson> Why would you set a default value?

[17:39:40] <cheeser> or "always set default values"

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[17:39:53] <cheeser> why do you ever set a default value?

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[17:40:01] <cheeser> because you want it to default to a value.

[17:40:30] <ricky_clarkson> Why might you want it to default to a value?

[17:40:40] <cheeser> what's the point of a default value?

[17:40:48] <littlezoper> what's the point of this argument?

[17:40:48] <jwormy> ricky_clarkson, becuase i wnat my 'user' object to defaulty tnili=false;

[17:40:50] <cheeser> it says, unless i say otherwise, use this value.

[17:41:04] * littlezoper gets the distinct impression that someone just wants to argue...

[17:41:09] <ricky_clarkson> /eliza --talk-to==cheeser

[17:41:10] <ricky_clarkson> oops

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[17:41:21] <tmh> littlezoper, We're not arguing!

[17:41:28] <littlezoper> tmh: yes we are! ;)

[17:41:34] <cheeser> ricky_clarkson: you're the one with the point to make.  so make it.

[17:41:40] <cheeser> i've stated why i do things.

[17:41:45] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: When would you actually want it 'not say otherwise'?

[17:41:48] <cheeser> but you're obviously the one with the agenda.

[17:42:03] <cheeser> ricky_clarkson: there's a billion ways that might happen.

[17:42:03] * davidw things sensible defaults are a good idea

[17:42:18] <sinister_> I am having a problem with a KayPair object.

[17:42:29] * davidw is stumped with a j2me weirdness

[17:42:36] <ricky_clarkson> sinister_: Is that some fashion accessory?

[17:43:41] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: Then it should be pretty easy to name one.

[17:44:41] <cheeser> ricky_clarkson: i'm not going to waste time arguing pointless minutia.  i have better things to do than bandy words about pointless arguments.

[17:44:43] <sinister_> I am creating it, and then save it using the method .writeObject. But when I am restoring it, the method getPrivate() of the KeyPair is returning dofferent results.

[17:44:53] <cheeser> i don't have to justify anything and I do have actually, you know, work going on.

[17:45:10] <cheeser> i just stated that defining defaults is fine.  you disagree.  that's also fine.

[17:45:15] <davidw> "running in background ..." what an odd error message:-(

[17:45:16] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: You attacked a point I made, and I asked you to back up your attack.

[17:45:35] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: wrt work, being busy, I am not asking for a fast conversation.

[17:45:40] <cheeser> i didn't "attack" a point.  i stated a counter opinion.

[17:45:55] <cheeser> and I gave justification for it

[17:46:05] <ricky_clarkson> I wasn't stating an opnion, I was advising.

[17:46:20] * littlezoper stares at that statement and tries to make sense of it.

[17:46:33] <cheeser> the day is early yet, but this is by far the most retarded "argument" i've had all day.

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[17:46:38] <ricky_clarkson> littlezoper: s/opn/opin/

[17:46:42] <ricky_clarkson> better?

[17:46:57] <roots-> i was going to help sinister

[17:46:58] <Meghan> I'm stumped, the thing needs rewriting and its due in 6 hours.

[17:46:58] <roots-> but well

[17:46:59] <Meghan> Meh.

[17:47:02] <littlezoper> i read through the typo the first time, but didn't see how it made sense even stilll

[17:47:03] <Meghan> bbl guys

[17:47:05] <roots-> i had to delete the sentence

[17:47:05] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: How many retarded arguments do you have in a day?

[17:47:21] <littlezoper> ricky_clarkson: i would guess not as many as you'll bring up.

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[17:47:58] <ricky_clarkson> I suppose if one starts a retarded argument, then complains about it being retarded, you could turn over a good number per hour.

[17:49:03] <ricky_clarkson> ~retargument is an argument somebody starts then gets bored with.

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[17:49:04] <javabot> Okay, ricky_clarkson.

[17:49:05] *** ricky_clarkson was kicked by pr3d4t0r (pr3d4t0r)

[17:49:07] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r

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[17:49:12] <pr3d4t0r> Oops...

[17:49:14] <cheeser> ricky_clarkson: depends on how often we "debate"

[17:49:14] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: sup?

[17:49:27] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Troll attack!

[17:49:48] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: I thought it was dibblego, sorry.

[17:49:53] <ricky_clarkson> I didn't even know there was a bridge there!

[17:52:11] <roots-> java/swing jokes:  http://weblogs.java.net/blog/chet/archive/2005/10/two_items_walk.html

[17:52:18] <tmh> Wow, 6 people are banned from this channel, must be a sign of its popularity.

[17:52:20] <ricky_clarkson> Have you seen Agitator?

[17:54:08] <ricky_clarkson> The one about primitive types is crap because primitives do have Class.

[17:54:10] <ricky_clarkson> int.class, etc.

[17:54:29] <roots-> yipp

[17:54:35] <roots-> inaccurate

[17:54:41] <roots-> "sed but true"

[17:54:48] <roots-> to quote the linux song title from metallica

[17:56:20] <ricky_clarkson> An item walks into a ToolBar.  The bartened NullPointerException at line null.  cannot find symbol: beer

[17:57:06] <davidw> well shit on a stick... this is a real mystery

[17:57:12] <Dandre> Hello all,

[17:57:26] <Dandre> I have a question about JTextPane.

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[17:57:51] <roots-> a question ?

[17:57:51] <mohadib> javabot: pr3d4t0r++

[17:57:51] <javabot> pr3d4t0r has a karma level of 129, mohadib

[17:57:52] <mohadib> javabot: pr3d4t0r++

[17:57:53] <javabot> pr3d4t0r has a karma level of 130, mohadib

[17:58:09] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: rick has been asking for that for a while :p

[17:58:19] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ricky_clarkson

[17:58:22] *** mohadib was kicked by ricky_clarkson (ricky_clarkson)

[17:58:27] <ricky_clarkson> Just like EFNet.

[17:58:31] *** ricky_clarkson sets mode: -o ricky_clarkson

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[17:58:34] <Dandre> I have put html text in it but it stil displays the whole text without interpreting html syntax. Where am I wrong?

[17:58:35] <mohadib> ;)

[17:58:55] * mohadib stands in the back

[17:59:07] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: mohadib++

[17:59:08] <javabot> mohadib has a karma level of 51, pr3d4t0r

[17:59:15] <roots-> yukk another ugly pattern here

[17:59:15] <ricky_clarkson> Dandre: I use JEditorPane for that, I don't know what JTextPane does.

[17:59:21] <sfb> Is there a lightweight version of JGraph that doesn't include the visual element? I need a simple graph class to manage hierarchies of objects and if there's already something in Java... I'd rather not recreate the wheel. Anyone have any ideas?

[17:59:22] <roots-> a lot of classes suffixed with Structure

[17:59:25] <roots-> reminds me a manager

[17:59:35] <roots-> sfb: there isnt

[17:59:45] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: Change them all to BlockOfCode

[17:59:52] <roots-> Dandre: you need to set the right editor-kit

[17:59:56] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: Or better still, ShitForBrains

[17:59:59] <pr3d4t0r> cheeser: Performance art, semi-improvisational monologues.

[18:00:25] <Dandre> roots-: I don't know how to do it

[18:00:29] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: ricky_clarkson lacks sensayuma.

[18:00:50] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: I think it's because he's channeling dibblego.

[18:01:14] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Anyway, time to go to my office.  See ya.

[18:01:19] <ricky_clarkson> I tried channelling him, but all he does is snore.

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[18:02:41] <roots-> HTMLEditorKit i mean of course

[18:02:47] <roots-> Dandre: that figures though

[18:04:40] <roots-> Dandre: are you kidding me ?

[18:04:55] <roots-> setting an editor kit ... couldn't that be done with the method  setEditorKit() ?

[18:05:01] *** StFS_ is now known as StFS

[18:05:03] <Dandre> no

[18:05:13] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: I think it's dangerous to apply logic.

[18:05:32] <roots-> JTextPane tp = new JTextPane(); tp.setText("<html><body><h1>Big</h1></body></html>");  <-- no html, no big text

[18:05:48] <roots-> JTextPane tp = new JTextPane(); tp.setEditorKit(new HTMLEditorKit()); tp.setText("<html><body><h1>Big</h1></body></html>");  <-- html, big text

[18:06:06] <roots-> how are your expectations different from the above code ?

[18:06:14] <Dandre> Ok! Thankyou

[18:06:26] <Dandre> I am a very very beginner in java!

[18:06:40] <roots-> so am i

[18:06:48] <tmh> And yet you argue with people?

[18:06:54] <roots-> but set... methods often set things :)

[18:06:58] <roots-> tmh: i can't help it, yes

[18:07:03] <StFS> anybody know any SQL syntax in Informix? I need to be able to specify a column in a SELECT statement that has all null values... similar to "SELECT col1, 5 AS myint FROM table" only "SELECT col1, NULL AS myint FROM table". Any ideas?

[18:07:04] <cheeser> i can help it!

[18:07:06] * cheeser eyes roots-

[18:07:10] <tmh> Not you roots-, Dandre

[18:07:14] <cheeser> StFS: try an informix forum.

[18:07:23] <StFS> cheeser: know of one?

[18:07:26] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: ;)

[18:07:32] <Dandre> yes but I didn't figure out what parameter I should pass

[18:07:32] <cheeser> #informix?  informix.com?

[18:07:36] <ricky_clarkson> StFS: Not related to Java.

[18:07:47] <cheeser> #sql would work

[18:07:47] <tmh> It was obvious Dandre hadn't read anything, and then argued when someone told him the correct approach, classic.

[18:07:50] <roots-> tmh: you got me trouble already

[18:07:52] <roots-> tmh: like thanks!

[18:07:56] <StFS> ricky_clarkson: well.. i'm doing it from within a java app ;)

[18:08:08] <cheeser> StFS: don't make me bit you.

[18:08:19] <cheeser> i don't wanna.  i only do it because i love you.

[18:08:20] <cheeser> oops.

[18:08:26] * cheeser quits channelling Ike Turner.

[18:08:29] <roots-> :)

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[18:08:39] <roots-> the low voice on proud mary is amazing

[18:08:40] <roots-> supernatural

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[18:08:50] * ricky_clarkson watches cheeser eat StFS' shorts.

[18:08:51] <Dandre> what do you mean tmh?

[18:09:13] <tmh> Dandre, nothing, let it go.

[18:10:18] <roots-> i am always aiming for trouble

[18:10:21] <roots-> i only wanted to help

[18:10:50] <tmh> I lurk on this channel to pick up tidbits and get frustrated when the majority of questions could be answered by reading documentation. I go to great lengths to read documentation, it's not that hard.

[18:10:50] <davidw> well this has been a shitty day.

[18:11:12] <cheeser> javabot: tmh++

[18:11:12] <javabot> tmh has a karma level of 5, cheeser

[18:11:18] <davidw> tmh, at times, it's a matter of which documentation to read... and knowing where it is

[18:12:01] <tmh> davidw, yes, but you'll never know where to look if you're constantly looking for spoonfed info.

[18:12:20] <roots-> setEditorKit is not hard to find if you were given the information that you need to set the editorkit

[18:12:35] <ricky_clarkson> tmh: That's why a lot of my answers consist of pointers to docs.

[18:12:50] <davidw> pointers to docs is a pretty reasonable way of doing things

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[18:13:04] <roots-> on the job it is different though

[18:13:08] <davidw> that seperates the wheat from the chaf, as it were....

[18:13:10] <Eno_> what might be some reasons that my java firefox plugin crashes when it tried to load any jaa applets? it generates a hs_*.log file as well

[18:13:16] <Eno_> and blames libfontmanager.so

[18:13:18] <roots-> usually you get handed buggy, super messy, complicated, inconsistently programmed, layouted code

[18:13:28] <roots-> with no documentation or wrong documentation if you are lucky

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[18:14:36] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: That's worse if your current colleagues are dumb.

[18:14:42] <mohadib> javabot: cheeser++

[18:14:43] <javabot> cheeser has a karma level of 148, mohadib

[18:15:58] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: words sometimes cannot describe that

[18:16:18] <roots-> the other day i spotted the   bla ? true : false;  idiom again

[18:16:23] <doc|work> anyone got any links to documentation on how to get an md5 of a string for people who aren't cryptographers?

[18:16:33] <roots-> oh and a very usefull 30 line method to compute the intersection of two Sets

[18:16:36] <roots-> java.util.Set

[18:16:43] <roots-> there is worse which i cannot disclose

[18:17:00] <roots-> doc|work: MessageDigest.getInstance("MD5");

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[18:17:43] <roots-> doc|work:    byte result[]= digest.digest(someString.getBytes("UTF-8"))

[18:17:45] <roots-> something like that

[18:17:49] <cheeser> mohadib: what'd I do?  8^)=

[18:17:58] <bpalmer> bla ? true : false isn't *that* bad.  Less line-noise than if (bla) return true; else return false; at least

[18:18:09] <roots-> bpalmer: thats the worse version of it

[18:18:09] <doc|work> md.update(this.getPassword().getBytes()); is what I'm using but I can't find an example of how to get the string back

[18:18:13] <roots-> but i prefer the if/else

[18:18:16] <cheeser> bpalmer: yeah, but still a newby thing to do.

[18:18:24] <cheeser> return bla;

[18:18:24] <doc|work> all of the tutorials use a sun class I'd rather not use

[18:18:27] <roots-> at least there people arent trying to pretend to be non-newbies

[18:18:35] <roots-> doc|work: dont use getBytes()

[18:18:42] <littlezoper> doc|work: you need a method that, when passed a string, returns the MD5 hash of said string?

[18:18:44] <bpalmer> actually, come to think of it, I'd be willing to bet that was from a C++ programmer

[18:18:48] <roots-> it uses the default encoding, out of your control and definately never appropriate for a string instance

[18:18:52] <doc|work> littlezoper: yep

[18:18:56] <doc|work> roots-: ok

[18:19:04] <littlezoper> doc|work: one sec.  i think i have such a method

[18:19:06] <roots-> doc|work: use getBytes("UTF-8") or some other unicode preserving encoding

[18:19:10] <doc|work> littlezoper: great

[18:19:17] <doc|work> roots-: will do

[18:19:31] <roots-> doc|work: thx

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[18:20:01] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: You around?

[18:20:21] <littlezoper> doc|work: http://pastebin.com/401020

[18:20:42] <littlezoper> i din't write that, so don't shoot me, but it works pretty well for me

[18:20:53] <littlezoper> i can't remember where I lifted that :P

[18:21:02] <doc|work> perfect. will dissect it and see if I can figure out what it does :)

[18:21:08] <roots-> littlezoper: it uses getBytes()

[18:21:11] <littlezoper> doc|work: awesome

[18:21:13] <bpalmer> it does the string.getBytes(), though, as roots- points out

[18:21:17] <roots-> using that is asking for trouble

[18:21:22] <littlezoper> roots-: um...probably? :P

[18:21:27] <roots-> and asking for problems surfacing somewhere else

[18:21:31] <littlezoper> roots-: trouble with?

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[18:22:02] <roots-> default encoding happens to be iso8859-1/cp1252 on many boxes

[18:22:11] <littlezoper> oh...encoding...yeah

[18:22:12] <roots-> the user can set it with a -D if his console is in unicode

[18:22:14] <roots-> or whatnot

[18:22:38] <littlezoper> honestly, i've never spent much time considering encoding :P

[18:22:39] <roots-> so unless you control the jvm startup and take away the opportunity from the user to set it (which sucks) you have no control over the encoding

[18:23:02] <littlezoper> that code needs a good cleaning, but I didn't write it and it works for em, so I kinda left it sitting there

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[18:23:21] <littlezoper> if someone improves it, i'd certainly be interested in the changes...

[18:23:42] <roots-> deleting it would be an improvement already

[18:23:45] <roots-> getBytes() sucks man

[18:23:47] <cheeser> commons-codec has a base64 encoder, iirc

[18:23:55] <littlezoper> haha

[18:24:13] * littlezoper runs to the jakarta site

[18:25:45] <doc|work> hmmm, on that I'm getting Syntax error on tokens, AnnotationName expected instead

[18:25:52] <doc|work> from eclipse

[18:26:23] * cheeser inserts obligatory "eclipse sucks" comment here.

[18:26:29] <littlezoper> roots-: so use .getBytes(<encoding>) instead?

[18:26:47] <guci> I use a java proxy to intercept IE ,but if the target address is start with 127.0.0.1,IE don't trigger proxy ,why ?how to fix it ?

[18:26:54] <cheeser> doesn't getBytes() use the local encoding anyway?

[18:27:07] * cheeser looks at guci

[18:27:10] <littlezoper> and commons-codec would probably be a better choice than that for loop....

[18:27:14] <roots-> cheeser: yes it does

[18:27:17] <roots-> but that could be anything

[18:27:31] <roots-> often is cp1252 (iso) and that is lossy on unicode strings

[18:27:34] <cheeser> right.  so who cares what the encoding is as long as it encodes/decodes the same way?

[18:28:45] <davidw> eeeks...encodings....

[18:28:46] <roots-> if you roundtrip a java string with iso/cp encoding its not the same

[18:28:47] <roots-> unless the string has only the low 8 bits set

[18:28:47] <roots-> roundtrip to byte[] and back to string that is

[18:28:47] <roots-> and that happens often and causes surprises and problems

[18:28:47] <ricky_clarkson> Because some encodings will be lossy, or because you might encode on one machine and decode on another.

[18:28:47] <doc|work> cheeser: care to buy me an IDEA licence? :)

[18:28:49] <cheeser> even in the same VM?

[18:28:56] <roots-> cheeser: yes sure

[18:28:56] <mohadib> cheeser: 10:08 < cheeser> i don't wanna.  i only do it because i love you.

[18:29:01] <roots-> encodings are lossy

[18:29:03] <cheeser> doc|work: sure.  send me a check and I'll start the process.

[18:29:06] <cheeser> mohadib: ah.  8^)=

[18:29:10] <doc|work> cheeser: :)

[18:29:12] <cheeser> roots-: fair enough.

[18:29:22] <roots-> new String (new char[] { 0x100 } );

[18:29:24] <doc|work> so, any idea on that error?

[18:29:38] <roots-> new String (s.getBytes("iso-8859-1"));

[18:29:48] <roots-> new String (s.getBytes("iso-8859-1"), "iso-8859-1"); even

[18:29:58] <roots-> and the 0x100 is gone for good

[18:30:00] <mohadib> heh

[18:30:27] <ricky_clarkson> I UTF-8 safe like that?

[18:30:30] <ricky_clarkson> s/I/Is/

[18:30:37] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: absolutely

[18:31:00] <roots-> and any jvm is requires to have UTF-8 on board

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[18:31:41] <littlezoper> roots-: so s/getBytes()/getBytes("UTF-8")/ ?

[18:31:50] <roots-> yes

[18:31:52] <littlezoper> ok

[18:31:55] <littlezoper> i can do that

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[18:32:19] <littlezoper> since pretty much all my code runs in the US, unicode is pretty low on my list of concerns...

[18:32:22] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: Code a checkstyle check for that

[18:32:23] * littlezoper shrugs

[18:32:23] <cheeser> roots-: I get '?' for both.

[18:32:24] <cheeser> 8^)=

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[18:34:30] <doc|work> thanks for the help

[18:34:42] <roots-> ? is used as a placeholder for an unknown char

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[18:34:51] <cheeser> roots-: i know.  8^)=

[18:34:58] <roots-> ok :)

[18:35:03] <cheeser> i'll do a .equals()

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[18:35:20] <roots-> it becomes fun when html/http and databases are also involed

[18:35:22] <roots-> involved

[18:35:33] <roots-> eg encoding of a html document is hard to figure out

[18:35:38] <ricky_clarkson> Epesh: I found a song containing the lyric 'My God What Have We Done [To You]" - Depeche Mode I think.

[18:35:43] <roots-> http headers and html content come into play

[18:35:57] <roots-> for xhtml you could even have unicode byteorder markers insanity

[18:36:13] <roots-> add a database and some java code and it becomes hard to figure out where things go wrong

[18:36:15] <cheeser> i get false.  8^)=

[18:37:08] * ricky_clarkson hopes it's a pebkac.

[18:38:57] <cyclone> i'm gay

[18:39:08] <mohadib> cheeser: fine work

[18:39:11] <mohadib> er cyclone

[18:39:17] * cyclone was owned. :(

[18:40:51] * cheeser blinks.

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[18:41:01] <roots-> clearcase--

[18:41:17] <roots-> i wanna get home before my baby sleeps

[18:41:26] <littlezoper> level 3 is having some serious issues from what I hear

[18:41:29] <roots-> so i can tickle her for a while

[18:41:31] <littlezoper> roots-: how old?

[18:41:39] <roots-> littlezoper: one year in 2 weeks

[18:41:39] <ricky_clarkson> tickle your wife instead.

[18:41:51] <littlezoper> roots-: awesome.  my son turned two in july :)

[18:42:02] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: i dont tickle my wife, i do treat her rough in bed :)

[18:42:07] <littlezoper> TMI! :)

[18:42:12] <mohadib> roots-: hah

[18:42:15] <mohadib> littlezoper: totaly

[18:42:27] <roots-> littlezoper: i got a girl

[18:42:36] <mohadib> roots-: can i msg?

[18:43:16] <cyclone> mohadib: Can't leave a screen unlocked at work.. Or co-workers get nasty.

[18:43:20] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: I know what you mean.

[18:43:29] <ricky_clarkson> Whenever I fart I push Lisa's head under the covers.

[18:43:35] <mohadib> cyclone: HAHAHAHAH

[18:44:01] <mohadib> javabot: cyclones_coworkers++

[18:44:02] <javabot> cyclones_coworkers has a karma level of 1, mohadib

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[18:44:59] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: i am rougher than that :>

[18:45:22] <mohadib> roots-: /msg?

[18:45:29] <ricky_clarkson> I know she appreciates it by the look in her eye.  Yes, eye.  Singular.  That's what happened when she DIDN'T appreciate it.

[18:46:12] * ricky_clarkson notes that this could descend into 4 Yorkshiremen stuff.

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[18:50:57] <roots-> mohadib: you want to /msg me ?

[18:51:24] <roots-> i got 2 more files to checkin that gives me hours and hours of time to waste

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[18:52:20] <ricky_clarkson> You could learn, master and forget Visual Basic in that time.

[18:53:00] <roots-> i know it already, bummer

[18:53:11] <mohadib> roots-: yes :p

[18:53:18] <roots-> mohadib: sure anytime

[18:54:20] <ricky_clarkson> A polite troll.

[18:54:35] <mohadib> ;)

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[18:55:07] <roots-> hah got a mail from a guy whose first name is rasta

[18:55:10] <roots-> indian guy :)

[18:56:05] <ricky_clarkson> Rasa Skanna?

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[18:56:38] <ricky_clarkson> Er, Rasta Skanna.

[18:56:48] <roots-> haha

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[18:59:30] <roots-> cu guys

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[19:02:00] <pr3d4t0r> Ah!

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[19:02:07] <keyhack> pr3d4t0r: Ping! :-)

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[19:02:26] <ricky_clarkson> ~turksmite cyprus

[19:02:26] <javabot> cyprus, Sus kopek!

[19:04:04] <cyclone> wow

[19:04:09] <cyclone> javabot: wow

[19:04:09] <javabot> cyclone, I have no idea what wow is.

[19:04:34] <ricky_clarkson> ~literal turksmite $1

[19:04:34] <javabot> <reply>$1, (Siktir Lan|Siktir git geber de|Sok gotunu|Sus kopek)!

[19:04:43] <ricky_clarkson> He's got a dirty mouth.

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[19:14:25] <pr3d4t0r> keyhack: Pong.

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[19:34:43] <Cow_woC> anyone ever use a <list-index> in Hibernate? I'm adding one (where it didn't exist before in the DB). Do I need to assign incrementing values to the DB before I can use it? What happens if an element is removed from the middle of an index? does Hibernate rearrange all the indicies which follow?

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[19:39:32] <node_6> Azureus build from ports on FreeBSD depends on Eclipse IDE.  The makefile also says that run depends on some eclipse .jar file.  Does it make sense that Azureus would need an IDE to run? Is there some part of eclipse that I can remove?  I don't want the IDE.

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[19:42:24] <ernimril> node_6: azerus needs swt, it is a toolkit...

[19:42:39] <davidw> ouch... requiring eclipse as a dependency

[19:42:43] <davidw> that's harhs

[19:43:00] <davidw> they should break out the toolkit and make eclipse and azureus depend on it

[19:43:22] <node_6> I take it that there's no way to separate them as they are

[19:43:24] <paulweb515> The SWT comes as a separate jar or 2

[19:43:38] <ernimril> paulweb515: swt also needs native libraries

[19:43:47] <paulweb515> it can be downloaded from http://www.eclipse.org/swt/

[19:44:27] <paulweb515> True ... but you can get the SWT jar and SWT native libraries without getting eclipse

[19:44:29] * ricky_clarkson chuckles at FreeBSD.

[19:44:49] <paulweb515> SWT doesn't depend on eclipse ... it's the other way around :-)

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[19:45:33] <BULLE> ricky_clarkson: whats funny about it ?

[19:45:42] <IseeIsee> I have a JPanel and I use the wasd and up,down,right,left key to move two squares on the screen

[19:45:56] <IseeIsee> but what happens is that they move tandem

[19:46:00] <BULLE> ricky_clarkson: ahh, the insane ports setup for azureus ?

[19:46:27] <IseeIsee> I mean only one user can move its square at a time

[19:46:45] <IseeIsee> as in the KeyListener listen to one key press then to another

[19:47:15] <IseeIsee> I want to use threads so that the KeyListeners are in threads and concurrently there are 2 KeyListeners listening to my key presses, how would i do this ?

[19:47:26] <BULLE> IseeIsee: threading and swing isnt a good thing

[19:47:35] <BULLE> IseeIsee: atleast not if it can be avoided

[19:47:36] <node_6> Based on what you've told me, I may write to the port maintainer.

[19:47:49] <IseeIsee> whats a port maintainer ?

[19:47:53] <ernimril> BULLE: threading and swing is neccessary for a responsive gui

[19:48:04] <davidw> ernimril, in java, at least.

[19:48:10] <ricky_clarkson> ernimril: Bollocks.

[19:48:26] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: You don't need to use separate threads.

[19:48:27] <node_6> IseeIsee: the individual responsible for organizing and keeping a given port up-to-date

[19:48:49] <IseeIsee> ok, guys offer me a solution to this problem, preferably using threads

[19:49:05] <ernimril> davidw: depending what you do, if you talk to a database or network or ... you need either a selector or threads...

[19:49:09] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: Swing is also not thread-safe, so it is a bad idea to call any method on a Swing object outside the EDT.

[19:49:22] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: Why do you want multiple threads?

[19:49:25] <BULLE> IseeIsee: why preferably using threads, if you can do it with just one thread, why do it with two ?

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[19:49:51] <IseeIsee> ok tell the solution with 1 thread

[19:50:12] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: Add KeyListeners to the panel or whatever has focus.

[19:50:16] <ernimril> start with one thread, move stuff to background when it is needed...

[19:50:24] * davidw is a big fan of event driven programming

[19:50:30] <ernimril> the one thread beeing the edt for swing

[19:50:37] <jwormy> davidw, then you've come to the right place :)

[19:50:41] <IseeIsee> hey hey

[19:50:50] <vinse> ~jwormy

[19:50:50] <javabot> vinse, jwormy is my favorite asshat

[19:50:51] <IseeIsee> I said I want both keys to work simulaneously

[19:50:56] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: You are probably using the same KeyListener implementation for all 8 keys, and not using intelligence.

[19:51:15] <IseeIsee> yes I'm using the same KeyListener

[19:52:00] <IseeIsee> using 2 different KeyListener would do the job ?

[19:52:10] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: When a user holds a key down, depending on the particular key and other stuff, you get a keyPressed, lots of keyTyped and a keyReleased.

[19:52:48] <ricky_clarkson> If the user holds two keys down, you get two keyPressed, twice as many keyTyped and 2 keyReleased.  There is no need to use multiple threads for this.

[19:53:32] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: Using 1 KeyListener just means you have to have more if statements in the KeyListener.  It doesn't stop it from working.

[19:53:43] <IseeIsee> ya but if I use the same KeyListener then holding two keys would call which function for KeyListener ?

[19:53:54] <ricky_clarkson> It would call keyPressed, twice.

[19:53:59] <ricky_clarkson> I just went through all that.

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[19:54:20] <IseeIsee> ahan

[19:54:24] <IseeIsee> ok

[19:54:30] <IseeIsee> I get it

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[20:01:48] <ricky_clarkson> "/usr/bin/find: Filesystem loop detected; `/cygdrive/c/cygwin' has the same device number and inode as a directory which is 3 levels higher in the filesystem hierarchy"

[20:01:57] <ricky_clarkson> Yeah, I thought that was an odd way of doing it too.

[20:03:30] <cybereal> It has always bothered me that there is no /cygdrive if you ls -a /

[20:03:38] <davidw> that /cygwin crap is weird, but that thing is sure a lifesaver on windows

[20:03:52] <davidw> I put some other handy things here: win4.leenooks.com

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[20:04:50] <fiberops> can Java be used for server-side .. scripting ?

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[20:05:13] <cybereal> Man I hate the whole "hightlighting automatically copies" thing; it makes it so I can't copy some text, then highlight some other block and paste to replace that block

[20:05:24] <cybereal> fiberops: J2EE

[20:05:29] <cybereal> fiberops: go, google now

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[20:05:48] <davidw> j2ee is pretty far removed from "scripting"

[20:05:50] <davidw> afaik

[20:05:53] <fiberops> but I don't like to google :(

[20:05:57] <cybereal> it's the same purpose served

[20:06:04] <cybereal> fiberops: then you aren't welcome here, I assure you of that

[20:06:04] <davidw> fiberops, what do you want to build?

[20:06:35] <ricky_clarkson> cybereal: I hate it when that doesn't exist, extra bloody keypresses to copy!

[20:06:41] <ricky_clarkson> or mouse clicks.

[20:06:54] <ricky_clarkson> cybereal: A clipboard history might make you happy.

[20:07:25] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: mac & windows style copy and paste makes me happy

[20:07:36] <ricky_clarkson> cybereal: On Linux a lot of apps provide both methods.

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[20:07:49] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: I've noticed that with newer gnome and kde apps

[20:07:56] <ricky_clarkson> As two separate clipboards.

[20:07:59] <cybereal> Yeah

[20:08:03] <cybereal> And that's fine

[20:08:25] <ricky_clarkson> So you're complaining that you're using old shit and it's not doing new shit, right? ;)

[20:08:26] <cybereal> because it lets me do what I explained and also lets me use the old style copy and paste when it's convenient (particularly in xterms)

[20:08:51] <cybereal> no, I wasn't complaining, I was just saying why I didn't like it; that's expressing an opinion, totally different things my friend

[20:09:07] <fiberops> cybereal: why not ? :(

[20:09:21] * cybereal doesn't even use linux because it sucks at handling his various gadgets

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[20:09:34] <cybereal> I miss the environ. though

[20:09:43] <cybereal> fiberops: because we help people who help themselves

[20:09:53] <cybereal> fiberops: if you can't be bothered to search for information then you're a huge time waste

[20:10:06] <cybereal> fiberops: and you clearly don't understand the usefulness of the internet either

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[20:10:20] <fiberops> hah

[20:10:24] <fiberops> always wanted to try that

[20:10:28] <fiberops> I was just kidding

[20:10:43] * cybereal hates being a social experiment

[20:10:49] <fiberops> thanks for the info (regarding j2EE)

[20:10:53] <cybereal> ~bomb fiberops

[20:10:53] * javabot drops a humongous exploding turd on fiberops

[20:10:56] <Cenobit> Hello ... I have a general question to people on the channel. Did anybody fro people gathered worked with J2ME? Did anybody manage to send something from J2EE application to J2ME application, so that server initializes the connection with emulator??

[20:11:06] <cybereal> fiberops: just remember that j2ee is many parts and you don't have to use them all

[20:11:17] <fiberops> ok

[20:11:23] <fiberops> thanks again, have a nice evening

[20:11:25] <cybereal> fiberops: You probably want to look at Tomcat

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[20:19:40] <qhoxie> if i have an operator (+,-,*, etc) in a string, how can i convert that to be used in an operation with two ints?

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[20:20:28] <davidw> Cenobit, qhoxie is this homework?

[20:20:31] <davidw> oops

[20:20:44] <davidw> Cenobit, I don't think you can just randomly send stuff to phones

[20:20:48] <ricky_clarkson> qhoxie: Use an if statement!

[20:20:50] <qhoxie> davidw, yes

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[20:21:26] <davidw> is arizona.edu the one in tucscon or phoenix?

[20:21:34] <qhoxie> davidw, tucson

[20:21:46] <qhoxie> ricky_clarkson, i dont see how that would help

[20:21:47] <ricky_clarkson> qhoxie: In English: if the operator is +, add the numbers.  If the operator is -, subtract them.  You get the idea.

[20:22:01] <qhoxie> ricky_clarkson, ah

[20:22:10] <davidw> tucson's nice at this time of year....better than here

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[20:22:21] <qhoxie> davidw, it is very nice right now, weather is perfect

[20:22:45] * ricky_clarkson is wearing a coat in his house right now.

[20:22:54] <qhoxie> do operators like that have a type?

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[20:23:16] <ricky_clarkson> qhoxie: No, they are not objects or anything like that.

[20:23:29] <qhoxie> ricky_clarkson, ok, that clears some stuff up then

[20:23:33] <qhoxie> thanks a lot

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[20:23:37] <ricky_clarkson> Enter the "Smalltalk rocks because..." discussion.

[20:24:16] <ricky_clarkson> hola Lars_G.

[20:24:32] <uto29> is there a Component in Swing or AWT that would be a list with elements on rows and with colons describing the element?

[20:24:48] <davidw> know if ruby can do fun tricks like that?

[20:25:00] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell uto29 about javadoc JTable

[20:25:00] <javabot> uto29, please see javax.swing.JTable: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/javax/swing/JTable.html

[20:25:06] <ricky_clarkson> No idea.

[20:25:15] <ricky_clarkson> I'm not interested in dynamic languages.

[20:25:45] <tieTYT2> davidw: like what?

[20:25:46] <bpalmer> latin for the win!

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[20:27:02] <Lars_G> Hola ricky

[20:27:23] <bpalmer> b

[20:27:25] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Btw. I have a new rule for you... I'll help, and love to chat, but for the love of the gods, get a headset :)

[20:27:35] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: A decent one can be gotten for very veyr cheap :)

[20:27:44] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: I've got some real microphones somewhere.

[20:27:49] <ricky_clarkson> For stage,thta kind of thing.

[20:27:55] <Lars_G> too big.

[20:27:56] <davidw> tieTYT, like you have a string and you get an operator from it

[20:28:11] <Lars_G> It's not the quality, your's sounds well but you set it too far, and I have a hard time understanding.

[20:28:14] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: I think Google Talk hnadles them better.

[20:28:27] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: It adjusts for the volume.

[20:28:38] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Use the mixer, do not blame skype

[20:29:04] <ricky_clarkson> Using the mixer is fine, but I can't really hear it myself.

[20:29:04] <Lars_G> I wonder if I should try polyphasic sleeping until I finish this project

[20:29:30] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: I work best if I take my laptop to a busy cafe.

[20:29:55] <ricky_clarkson> The movement around me makes me feel more urgent.  Any distractions make me more determined to work.

[20:30:24] <Lars_G> Nice idea.

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[20:30:36] <Lars_G> Trouble is I am adhd, I need a perfect balance of distraction.

[20:30:43] <Lars_G> too much distraction, and I'll wander off.

[20:30:43] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Saying that, your office sounded pretty loud.

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[20:31:08] <Lars_G> too little, and my extra mental threads start wandering around thinking useless things that get in the way.

[20:31:24] <Lars_G> a good amount of distraction, occupies secondary threads, letting my main rational mind focus

[20:31:42] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: It was after 7 pm, the boss was out, and Juan and another coworker were joking

[20:31:45] <dingo001> Lars_G: try music on headphones, helps me

[20:32:07] <ricky_clarkson> dingo001: I keep wanting to put drum beats over the top of songs.

[20:32:16] <Lars_G> dingo001: I do that but I can't for long, personally I preffer aerial music, since the headphones are too close and eventually they produce me a headache.

[20:32:32] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: I do that, but that only consumes secondary threads by now.

[20:32:36] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: s/produce/give/

[20:32:44] <dingo001> ricky_clarkson: try the trance stations on shoutcast , they will keep you going like the duracell bunny

[20:32:55] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: No, produce.... my head is a milk produce.

[20:32:56] <ricky_clarkson> dingo001: I listen to reggaeon sometimes.

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[20:33:00] <ricky_clarkson> reggaeton.

[20:33:09] <Lars_G> Or was produce lettuce an dso?

[20:33:11] <Lars_G> AHHHH

[20:33:13] <dingo001> Lars_G: i got a pretty nice peice of sony headphones for 20$ 2 yrs back, awesome

[20:33:18] <dingo001> no headache

[20:33:37] * Lars_G stabs ricky_clarkson to death, feeds his parts to maggots, burns the maggots, throws the ashes in tar and drops the tar in an abandoned mine

[20:33:53] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: if you ever and i mean EVER play reaggeton while we're talking deal is off, permanently.

[20:34:00] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Haha.

[20:34:10] <Lars_G> dingo001: I use a pair of AKG ak-44

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[20:34:36] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: I also like bachata.

[20:35:16] <dingo001> these http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sony-Studio-Monitor-Series-Headphones-MDR-V150-/sem/rpsm/oid/89471/catOid/-12938/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

[20:35:17] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Bachata is nice, old salsa I love, new salsa I bear, merengue tires me, reaggetton send me into seizures and once they pass into a murderous frenzy

[20:35:20] <dingo001> they r nice

[20:35:46] * ricky_clarkson thinks reggaeton must be the hispanic youth's favourite thing to blast out of a car stereo.

[20:36:19] <dingo001> Lars_G: nice headphones

[20:36:22] <Lars_G> dingo001: It's not the earphones, my akg are crystal clear (I like good sound and have a good ear) they're phisically confortable, and I do not play music too loud. the matter is, from earphone to ear sound waves have no time do disperse and develope so they are more boxed in (hard to explain) and tire me

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[20:37:07] <Lars_G> dingo001: these are what i use: http://www.akg.com/products/powerslave,mynodeid,186,id,328,pid,328,_language,EN.html

[20:37:09] <dingo001> Lars_G: yea, it takes a little to get used to, my volume is absolutely minimum, enough to drown the sound around me

[20:37:36] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: I think I know what you mean, but you might get some benefit from adjusting the tone of the sound (bass, mid, treble).

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[20:40:30] <Lars_G> Well enough off topic.

[20:40:37] <Lars_G> I don't want to test cheeser's patience

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[20:43:37] <cheeser> /kickban Lars_G

[20:43:44] <cheeser> what?  huh?  who said that?

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[20:47:41] <swperman> hey there... does my DOM document need to have any special headings in order to use DocumentBuilderFactory's parser?

[20:48:08] <Lars_G> cheeser: And to think I was being considerate to you, how unfaithfull you be.

[20:49:18] <davidw> it's pizza time...hasta la vista

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[20:50:43] <IseeIsee> is it possible in java to simultaneously detect 2 keypresses ?

[20:50:59] <IseeIsee> two keys are pressed at an exact instant in time

[20:51:09] <Lars_G> I doubt that's possible to archieve.

[20:51:15] <IseeIsee> will it be possible to detect both

[20:51:15] <nmx> i think that's physically impossible

[20:51:18] <ricky_clarkson> You can never press two keys at the same time.

[20:51:20] <cybereal> you'll want to check for the other when one has an event

[20:51:23] <Lars_G> Might seem simultaneous to you, btu not for the pc.

[20:51:48] <AlphaOmega_wrk> ricky_clarkson : you can press 2 keys at the same time, the computer doesnt not read two keys at the same time

[20:51:55] <AlphaOmega_wrk> er, does not*

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[20:52:02] <Lars_G> plus, even if you managed to press two keys really simultaneously, the AT keyboard bus is serial, so they'd be sent in series

[20:52:09] <ricky_clarkson> AlphaOmega_wrk: You cannot.

[20:52:16] <[TechGuy]> 'afternoon all

[20:52:19] <IseeIsee> ok got the answer

[20:52:28] <Lars_G> AlphaOmega_wrk: Depends on the time frame you define simultaneous in.

[20:52:45] <Lars_G> AlphaOmega_wrk: If it's human perceptive time, you can. if it's hard time, you can't.

[20:52:55] <AlphaOmega_wrk> i c

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[20:53:42] <chasep> any idea where I can find help on writing a java client to connect to a PHP/SOAP based webservice? Everything I Am finding seems to be specific to java based servers

[20:53:59] <ricky_clarkson> chasep: Surely the implementation of the server is irrelevant.

[20:54:25] <cybereal> unless he means he's finding java rmi clients or something

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[20:54:52] <chasep> thats what I thought. But I am taking apache-soap java examples, and I keep getting errors when I try to communicate with my server. Everything works fine if i communicate with it via php

[20:55:15] <Lars_G> chasep: SOAP is universal...

[20:55:29] <Lars_G> chasep: Then your apache-soap code is incorrect.

[20:55:30] <[TechGuy]> PHP's SOAP module (at least the native one in 5) used to be, and possibly still is, notoriously buggy

[20:55:35] <cybereal> Lars_G: I dunno, I have smelle some people wh probably never heard of soap :)

[20:55:42] <Lars_G> [TechGuy]: Ahh, good detail

[20:55:50] <ricky_clarkson> Ecept in france where they abhor it on principanl.

[20:55:50] <Lars_G> cybereal: My socks for example

[20:56:04] <Lars_G> cybereal: Btw I found a clean pair today. My blisters are not oozing anymore

[20:56:05] <cybereal> Exactly

[20:56:11] <cybereal> Lars_G: good!

[20:56:18] <[TechGuy]> tmi

[20:56:30] <Lars_G> eh...

[20:56:36] <Lars_G> I just confused letter W with X....

[20:56:45] <Lars_G> My brain needs an ajustment

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[20:58:09] <[TechGuy]> hrm... I'm moving my system to Postgres from MySQL. Had to change a few make args in Ports, must've made a typo or something. My system load shot over 200. :D

[20:58:09] <Lars_G> Coffee time

[20:58:12] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Btw thank you.

[20:58:28] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Today I had tea with my breakfast again for the first time in years. It was heaven

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[21:05:23] <IseeIsee> I have an int array

[21:05:28] <IseeIsee> which represents a Maze

[21:05:41] <IseeIsee> lets say I want o randomly generate different mazes

[21:05:49] <IseeIsee> which will later map themselves to a GUI

[21:06:02] <cheeser> javabot: tell IseeIsee about enter

[21:06:02] <javabot> IseeIsee, Don't press return until you've finished typing your question, it's annoying to see multiple lines for one question, and hard to follow.

[21:06:05] <IseeIsee> what can be the method of doing it

[21:06:14] <IseeIsee> ok

[21:07:47] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: The last time I tried solving that I wasa about 11.

[21:08:15] <cheeser> ricky_clarkson: that doesn't really help him solve now, though, does it.  it's just kind of an ass comment to make.

[21:09:10] <IseeIsee> I can't also solve it

[21:09:17] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: It's a fucking hard problem.

[21:09:32] * Lars_G sits and watches.

[21:09:39] <vinse> are int arrays good ways to represent a maze?

[21:09:45] <cybereal> vinse: sure

[21:09:46] <ricky_clarkson> Well, that depends on the randomness you want in the mze, I suppose.

[21:09:47] <bpalmer> Is it? It seems like you should be able to first construct a valid path

[21:09:55] <cheeser> there are probably better representations...

[21:09:58] <bpalmer> then apply random alternations to the random path

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[21:10:04] <ricky_clarkson> bpalmer: Yes, then randomly construct invalid paths.  That part might be tricky.

[21:10:13] <IseeIsee> but I'll need to think alot before I actually implement, so I was just wondering if you people have some experience & can help me out

[21:10:33] <Lars_G> help you think? sorry, only vitamins can. :)

[21:10:34] <ricky_clarkson> IseeIsee: It might be best to google for maze generation algorithm.

[21:10:34] <cybereal> ~IseeIsee++

[21:10:35] <javabot> iseeisee has a karma level of 1, cybereal

[21:10:37] <cybereal> IseeIsee: thinking is good

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[21:11:04] <IseeIsee> ok I'll make it easy, forget about maze, I just want a few random blocks of considerable length on the JPanel

[21:11:14] <ricky_clarkson> In my C64 program I found it easier to just hardcode about 20 mazes in.

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[21:11:41] <ricky_clarkson> Mirroring them on the x and y axis makes it seem like 80 mazes. ;)

[21:12:03] <Devard> Hi, is there anyway to put an X button in a JTabbedPane similar to what Firefox uses to close tabs?

[21:12:06] <ricky_clarkson> s/axis/axes/

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[21:12:22] <ernimril> Devard: not easily... but there are ways...

[21:12:26] <cheeser> Devard: yes.

[21:12:49] <Devard> ernimril: Could you elaborate slightly on "not easily"? :)

[21:12:55] <ricky_clarkson> Limewire seems to do that.

[21:13:03] <Lars_G> Devard: It is difficult to perform it.

[21:13:09] <ricky_clarkson> Oh, but limewire might use SWT, can't remember.

[21:13:12] <Lars_G> Devard: That's an elaboration on "not easily".

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[21:13:26] <r0bby_> i think he wants the code

[21:13:28] <Lars_G> Devard: Sure you don't want an elaboration on " but there are ways..." instead?

[21:13:28] <ernimril> Devard: google and/or forum.java.sun.com holds the answer, I have seen it, but do not have a link

[21:13:45] <Devard> ernimril: Okay, I'l see what  Ican find

[21:13:49] <Devard> thanks everyone :)

[21:13:53] <Lars_G> Man, I'm a cynic today

[21:14:00] <ernimril> Devard: I think you have to do some swing themeing

[21:14:09] <bpalmer> you're a conspiracy theorist, ernimril ! ("I've seen the proof, I just don't have it with me...")

[21:14:24] <Lars_G> bpalmer: No, ernimril IS the conspirancy

[21:14:30] <Lars_G> We make theories about him.

[21:14:42] <ernimril> Lars_G: *shh* do not tell my secret...

[21:14:42] * Lars_G blabbers

[21:14:48] <Lars_G> Going for coffee and a pill

[21:14:49] <bpalmer> has anybody ever got a photograph of ernimril ?

[21:15:02] <bpalmer> b

[21:15:04] <ernimril> bpalmer: I am just lines of text...

[21:15:13] <ricky_clarkson> ~offence

[21:15:13] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, offence is don't take offence at things in IRC, none of us exist, we're just lines of text on your screen.

[21:15:24] <Lars_G> bpalmer: I only have one of cheeser, he's cutter

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[21:15:46] <ricky_clarkson> ernimril doesn't show up on photographs, he's merely a PhantomReference.

[21:16:02] <Lars_G> I tought he was an Abstract class

[21:16:25] * ricky_clarkson looks like he inherits from Ringo Starr.

[21:16:37] <ricky_clarkson> Shall I get my pictures out?

[21:17:04] <ricky_clarkson> This one's of ernimril  as a baby, wasn't he cute.

[21:17:32] * bpalmer is forced to concede that yes, ernimril as a baby was rather baby-like

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[21:19:03] <ricky_clarkson> http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ricky_clarkson/detail?.dir=a276&.dnm=cd5c.jpg

[21:19:32] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: You look older than you are.

[21:19:45] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: And too thin for the voice you have

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[21:20:34] <ernimril> bpalmer: http://www.khelekore.org/~robo/me.jpg

[21:20:44] <ricky_clarkson> I have wide legs but the rest of me is fairly slim.

[21:21:04] <Lars_G> Ahhhh nice, I miss diving.

[21:21:05] <Lars_G> sigh

[21:21:31] <ricky_clarkson> What's diving got do with it, got to do, go to do with it?

[21:21:31] <ricky_clarkson> h, right. ;)

[21:21:35] <ricky_clarkson> The picutere loads, the penny drops.

[21:21:54] <ernimril> well havent we all done the dive log? :-)

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[21:21:57] <ricky_clarkson> ernimril: You look like a complete drip.

[21:22:05] <bpalmer> maybe that's why ernimril is down there, looking for pennies that people threw in

[21:22:25] <bpalmer> (I seem to recall a lot of the wishing wells do collect the money periodically to donate to charity)

[21:22:42] <ricky_clarkson> I can give action shots too!

[21:23:08] <ricky_clarkson> httpI'm the one on hte right: http://lavender.cime.net/~ricky/pictures/me_charlotte3.PNG

[21:23:26] <vinse> hmm

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[21:23:48] <vinse> i just updated my project from cvs and one of my .java files is now in chinese

[21:23:55] <vinse> needless to say it no longer compiles

[21:24:08] <cybereal> vinse: how'd that happen?

[21:24:23] <cheeser> he internationalized his project!

[21:24:31] <bpalmer> vinse: last time you give someone from hong kong commit privileges, eh?

[21:24:48] <ricky_clarkson> 52 Eclipse committers are Chinese.

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[21:25:10] <Lars_G> Isn't Eclipse banned in china then?

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[21:25:21] <cyclone> Lars_G: hehehe

[21:25:25] <ricky_clarkson> Only solar eclipses. ;)

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[21:25:48] <nmx> taht's pretty funny

[21:26:06] <cyclone> "Look at an eclipse and you'll be shot.." --China

[21:26:34] <ricky_clarkson> I threaten my students with severe laughter.

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[21:26:44] <ricky_clarkson> Anybody who doesn't do XXX will be severely laughed at.

[21:26:56] <ricky_clarkson> Er, where XXX is nothing related to porn ;)

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[21:28:16] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r posted a pic of a few of ##java together, but I can't find it now.

[21:28:28] <Lars_G> http://show.degopro.com/me3.jpg

[21:28:37] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Use Drone's log

[21:28:49] <philosophia> can i ask someone's help w netbeans built in cvs client?

[21:29:15] <Lars_G> philosophia: We don't know. you have to try first and we'll tell you if you were able to.

[21:29:38] <philosophia> can i ask someone's help w netbeans built in cvs client?

[21:29:46] <Lars_G> philosophia: We don't know. you have to try first and we'll tell you if you were able to.

[21:29:55] <philosophia> can i ask someone's help w netbeans built in cvs client?

[21:29:58] <Lars_G> philosophia: We don't know. you have to try first and we'll tell you if you were able to.

[21:30:02] <socketbind> ? :D

[21:30:04] <philosophia> can i ask someone's help w netbeans built in cvs client?

[21:30:18] * Lars_G drops the ball. lets cheeser do the ban

[21:30:23] <Lars_G> cheeser: Please.

[21:31:08] * cheeser eyes philosophia

[21:31:22] <ricky_clarkson> philosophia: Stop repeating.

[21:31:49] <ricky_clarkson> philosophia: If you want to ask, ask, don't ask to ask.

[21:32:09] <ricky_clarkson> If you don't understand that, I suggest changing your nick.

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[21:34:21] * ricky_clarkson phones Lars_G and leaves him on hold listening to Daddy Yankee.

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[21:35:01] * Lars_G hacks ricky_clarkson with a fire axe

[21:35:18] * ricky_clarkson runs away and look up the term fire axe.

[21:35:23] <socketbind> :D

[21:35:30] <cheeser> an axe used by firemen

[21:36:02] <cheeser> or, as I like to refer to them, fire technicians

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[21:36:24] <vinse> heh wow we cant fix this chinese problem

[21:36:30] <bpalmer> firemen -- "humanoid fire elementals from the Plane of Fire, summoned by mid-level conjurers and bound to one specific task"

[21:36:34] <Cow_woC> cheeser: I remember reading a while back about Hibernate sometimes updating "version" even if the object value hasn't really been changed. Do you remember something like this? when does it occur?

[21:36:56] <vinse> everytime my colleague checks in this file, it shows up in cvs in half chinese

[21:37:48] <bpalmer> vinse: hmm. what tool is he using to check it in?

[21:39:32] <vinse> bpalmer: eclipse

[21:39:57] <ricky_clarkson> vinse: Try using cvs.

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[21:40:09] <dingo001> hey all

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[21:40:44] <dingo001> when do we need to use multithreading?

[21:40:46] <ricky_clarkson> vinse: cvs, the terminal application.

[21:40:49] <Storkme> the programming course at my college is pathetic

[21:40:58] <ricky_clarkson> dingo001: In 5 seconds.

[21:41:32] <dingo001> ricky_clarkson: huh?

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[21:42:05] <vinse> ricky_clarkson: yeah it seems like that wont work, looking closer, his file *is* half in chinese, only it doesnt look like it when viewed on his eclipse install

[21:42:24] <vinse> hmm, compiles on his too

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[21:42:59] <ricky_clarkson> vinse: get rid of his\settings.

[21:43:05] <ricky_clarkson> And fire him for good measure. ;)

[21:43:21] <Lars_G> wtf? now my svn went mad

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[21:43:47] 

[21:44:01] <cybereal> It's like that Stephen King story where all the cars go crazy but instead it's source control systems!

[21:44:08] <socketbind> o_O

[21:44:43] <ricky_clarkson> SourceSafe stays crazy, so people use it because itnseems more stable in ina=sanity.

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[21:44:57] <cybereal> right

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[21:45:09] * ricky_clarkson is using type-a-head, sorry for tpyos.

[21:45:29] <vinse> heh, cut and paste into notepad, cut and paste back into eclipse

[21:45:33] <vinse> fixed it

[21:45:35] <ricky_clarkson> I've also got peanut butter on a couple o f fingers which doesn't help.

[21:45:40] <vinse> if it happens again i'm gonna get real edgy

[21:46:27] <cybereal> vinse: encoding problems

[21:46:30] <cybereal> vinse: I hate them

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[21:46:42] <vinse> yes :/

[21:48:38] <vinse> man

[21:48:46] <vinse> chinese seems really hard to read

[21:48:52] <vinse> it must require large fonts

[21:48:59] <ricky_clarkson> I think it's supposed to be. ;)

[21:49:02] <Lars_G> vinse: Not necesarily.

[21:49:13] <vinse> these characters have like 90 different strokes, and they're all jammed into a tiny space

[21:49:27] <vinse> if there was subtle differences in two characters seems like it'd be impossible to tell

[21:49:31] <Lars_G> vinse: Normal matrix LCD controllers come with a japanese character set in them (ok japanese but it's somewhat similar)

[21:49:33] <vinse> i guess context helps

[21:49:37] <vinse> if you know the language

[21:49:40] <Lars_G> there are characters for 8x8 matrix LCDs....

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[21:55:56] <ricky_clarkson> Clackwell: Is calchas a good bad or ugly op?

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[22:00:16] <vinse> ok looks like the answer was obvious

[22:00:33] <vinse> he had accidently changed the character encoding in eclipse's properties for that file

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[22:00:43] <cybereal> yay

[22:00:45] <vinse> it's a lot of keystrokes to do by accident

[22:00:51] <vinse> but at least it's solved

[22:00:54] <Cow_woC> is there a way to declare a Callable which returns "void"?

[22:01:17] <Cow_woC> another way of asking is can a Generic type be "void"?

[22:01:27] <ricky_clarkson> ~javadoc Callable

[22:01:28] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, please see java.util.concurrent.Callable: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/concurrent/Callable.html

[22:02:05] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: Generic types can only be reference types, not primitives.

[22:02:16] <Cow_woC> so the answer is no, eh?

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[22:02:22] <Storkme> ~encryption

[22:02:23] <javabot> Storkme, I have no idea what encryption is.

[22:02:24] <Storkme> ~encoding

[22:02:25] <javabot> Storkme, I have no idea what encoding is.

[22:02:27] <Cow_woC> Right now I define it to return Void and return null ... kinda ugly but it works

[22:02:29] <Storkme> bleh

[22:02:31] <ricky_clarkson> ~rot13 encryption

[22:02:32] <javabot> rapelcgvba

[22:02:42] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Storkme about security

[22:02:42] <javabot> Storkme, security is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/security1.2/index.html

[22:02:43] <Storkme> i need some help with encryption and java

[22:02:54] <cybereal> Cow_woC: if not using the return value, why does it matter what you return?

[22:02:56] <Storkme> thanks

[22:03:29] <Storkme> ricky_clarkson: i was thinking of a really simple encryption method

[22:03:30] <ricky_clarkson> The security department where I work aren't able to 'secure' a rucksack overnight.

[22:03:54] *** Mot has quit IRC

[22:04:04] <ricky_clarkson> !seen Mot

[22:04:06] <Drone> Mot (Mot!n=m0tbaill at resnet-248-11 dot resnet.umbc.edu) was last seen in ##java on Mon 17 Oct 2005 07:28 GMT, saying 'i have a bunch of guys on my university dc++ hub saying "java is barely a language"'.

[22:04:09] <Storkme> haha

[22:04:27] <ricky_clarkson> They can only secure buildings.

[22:04:32] <Cow_woC> cybereal: it's just ugly having to return null and define "Void"

[22:04:38] <Cow_woC> cybereal: I was just wondering

[22:04:46] <Lars_G> Ok all hell broke loose with the washing machine

[22:05:26] <Storkme> ricky_clarkson: i was thinking of a really simple encryption & decryption method

[22:06:06] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/concurrent/Executors.html#callable(java.lang.Runnable)

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[22:06:19] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: I think you should learn to read.

[22:06:34] <ricky_clarkson> ~rot13 Storkme I don;'t know what you mean

[22:06:34] <javabot> Fgbexzr V qba;'g xabj jung lbh zrna

[22:06:51] <Storkme> seil

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[22:07:04] <Storkme> seil lla s'ti

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[22:07:26] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: I think you should learn to read my requirements: no return type

[22:07:26] <gabb> Hi, does anyone know if/how you can style a JTabbedPane like the Eclipse tabs?

[22:07:31] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: sorry, no return value

[22:07:38] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: the method you pointed me to returns something

[22:07:50] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: It returns a Callable, yes.

[22:07:59] <Cow_woC> no, it returns "T result"

[22:08:01] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: But you can just supply it a Runable.

[22:08:09] <Cow_woC> as well the problem is that Runnable does not allow to throw Exception

[22:08:12] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: Right, and that result will be null.

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[22:08:32] <ricky_clarkson> You can throw RuntimeEsxceptions.

[22:08:35] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: it's not necessarily null: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/concurrent/Executors.html#callable(java.lang.Runnable,%20T)

[22:08:49] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: I pointed you to the other version of that method.

[22:09:08] <Cow_woC> oh

[22:09:11] <Cow_woC> my mistake

[22:09:16] <Cow_woC> I pasted the URL wrong in the browser

[22:09:30] <ricky_clarkson> "Cow_woC: I think you should learn to read."

[22:09:35] <Cow_woC> paste, not read

[22:09:36] <Cow_woC> :)

[22:09:54] <Cow_woC> I'm going to keep my current mechanism though, because I wanted to be able to throw Exception

[22:10:04] <Cow_woC> instead of having to wrap them

[22:10:06] <ricky_clarkson> Throwing Exxception is a bad idea.

[22:10:19] <ricky_clarkson> ~catch exception

[22:10:20] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'don't catch exception' might be appropriate:

[22:10:22] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, don't catch exception is http://findbugs.sourceforge.net/bugDescriptions.html#REC_CATCH_EXCEPTION and http://checkstyle.sourceforge.net/config_coding.html#IllegalCatch

[22:10:27] <ricky_clarkson> Yeah, read those.

[22:10:33] <Storkme> could anyone help

[22:10:38] <Storkme> i'm really confused

[22:10:44] <ricky_clarkson> ~rot13 probably not

[22:10:44] <javabot> cebonoyl abg

[22:10:58] <Storkme> why not

[22:11:13] <gabb> Anyone? Stlying a JTabbedPane like the Eclipse tabs?

[22:11:14] <ricky_clarkson> seuqiqnhcet noitpyrcne yna fo kniht t'nac I

[22:11:58] <ricky_clarkson> Storkme: Go and find out what rot13 is.

[22:12:04] <cybereal> gabb: eclipse uses SWT

[22:12:08] <Storkme> is it decryptable?

[22:12:17] <Storkme> it's not one way?

[22:12:18] <ricky_clarkson> Storkme: Go and find out what rot13 is.

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[22:12:29] <Storkme> okay

[22:12:32] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: I always catch specific exceptions, then the rest go into catch (Exception) which get wrapped in InvocationTargetException() and rethrown

[22:12:45] <Lars_G> gor13

[22:12:49] <Lars_G> Good Old Rot13

[22:12:51] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: I never have any 'the rest'.

[22:12:56] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: and actually those, in turn, get wrapped in IllegalStateException

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[22:13:12] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson; I can see a problem, if OutOfMemoryError is thrown ...

[22:13:28] <Storkme> thanks ricky

[22:13:31] <ricky_clarkson> catch (Exception) won't catch OutOfMemoryError actually.

[22:13:43] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: but then, I could always catch (Error) before Exception, and I should be fine

[22:13:51] <gabb> cybereal, ah, thanks.

[22:13:53] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: so catch (Error) rethrow ... catch (Exception) wrap it

[22:13:59] <ricky_clarkson> A reasonable aplication does not catch Error.

[22:14:34] <Cow_woC> wait a minute, my mistake

[22:14:38] <ricky_clarkson> The problem is that in catching Exception will treat RuntimeExceptions as checked exceptions, which isn't right.

[22:14:39] <Cow_woC> Exception does not include Error

[22:14:45] <Cow_woC> so catching Exception is perfectly fine in my book

[22:14:50] <ricky_clarkson> Welcome to 2 minutes ago.

[22:15:00] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: Did you read the URLs that javabot gave you?

[22:15:02] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: yes

[22:15:05] * cheeser skips forward to now to miss the commercials.

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[22:15:16] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: The point is, in my case, I treat both checked and unchecked exceptions the same and wrap them

[22:15:21] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: And what points did you disagree on?

[22:15:50] <Cow_woC> like I said, in my specific use-case I don't have any use for the checked exception anyway, I would have treated them the same (rethrow them)

[22:15:52] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: And will you always do that?

[22:15:55] <Cow_woC> wrap and rethrow rather

[22:16:11] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: whereever it makes sense in my code, yes

[22:16:22] <Cow_woC> if I wanted to catch a specific checked exception I could do that

[22:16:26] <Cow_woC> before catch (Exception)

[22:16:28] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: Do you know why JFrame.add(Component) in 1.4 threw an Error rather than a RiuntimeException?

[22:16:39] * Cow_woC shrugs

[22:16:52] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: It's because far too many numbnuts like you were catching Exception, which would have included that.

[22:16:59] <ricky_clarkson> So they'd have just looked at it blankly.

[22:17:25] <ricky_clarkson> Catch RuntimeException and all the individual exception types above that, not Exception.

[22:17:45] <Cow_woC> we are disagreeing on a fundamental point here: checked exceptions

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[22:17:57] <Cow_woC> I'm telling you that I don't want to be forced to check them

[22:17:59] <ricky_clarkson> Then you're being explicit, and when your dependencies change their exceptions, you'll be forced to think about what to do with the exception (this is a good thing).

[22:18:06] <vinse> http://biggeek.org/pix/chinese.jpg

[22:18:11] <uto25> I created a JTable but the column names are not showing. How do I resolve that?

[22:18:51] <tag> xxdiff

[22:18:53] <tag> yaay

[22:18:55] <aiyaiyairc> uto25 >> alternative code

[22:19:00] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: It's fine not to design checked exceptions into your code, but ignoring checked exceptions from elsewhere, is s really a bit silly.

[22:19:22] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: look, it's not that easy... I have hibernate.execute(Callable)

[22:19:26] <Cow_woC> Callable throws Error

[22:19:44] <Cow_woC> now, the callable passed in is an anonymous class... it executes different transactions in different part of my code

[22:20:06] <Cow_woC> there is no way for me to handle the checked exception in execute() so I wrap it in InvocationTargetException and throw that

[22:20:11] <kinabalu> so .. if Accept-Language is de-de .. but you don't have a german translation .. why oh why does the webwork text tag try to pull a non-existant tag from a non-existant resource bundle!

[22:20:18] <Cow_woC> the surrounding code can then catch InvocationTargetException and handle it any way it wishes

[22:20:18] <ricky_clarkson> You could throw a RuntimeException.

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[22:20:34] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: ... who would throw RuntimeException?

[22:20:42] <ricky_clarkson> Cow_woC: Me.

[22:20:45] <Cow_woC> no

[22:20:50] <Cow_woC> ... that's not my question

[22:20:53] <Cow_woC> which part of the code would do that?

[22:20:57] <ricky_clarkson> The anonymous class.

[22:21:47] <Cow_woC> but that's still meaningless because the anonymous class extends Callable which throws Exception

[22:21:58] <Cow_woC> oops, hold on ...

[22:21:59] <Cow_woC> revisit Javadoc

[22:22:17] <Cow_woC> right ... Callable throws Exception, not Error (sorry for my prior typo)

[22:22:27] <Cow_woC> since my anon class extends Callable, it throws Exception too.

[22:22:36] <Cow_woC> so from execute()'s point of view, it has to catch Exception

[22:22:40] <Cow_woC> or re-throw it

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[22:22:57] <ricky_clarkson> Ok, special case.

[22:23:04] <Cow_woC> yes :)

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[22:23:18] <ricky_clarkson> I'd catch (Exception exceptipon){ throw new RuntimeExvception(exvception);}

[22:23:52] <vinse> i like how you made three totally different typos for exception

[22:24:01] <vinse> keep everyone guessing

[22:24:01] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: I do that but InvocationTargetException instead

[22:24:10] <ricky_clarkson> vinse: two.

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[22:24:18] <ricky_clarkson> vinse: I see the previous line on the screen while I'm typing the next.

[22:24:19] <cybereal> vinse: second typo was repeated

[22:24:23] <ricky_clarkson> About 5 seconds lag.

[22:24:35] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: the virtues of a local irc client

[22:24:57] <Cow_woC> vinse: why would you choose RuntimeException over InvocationTargetException?

[22:25:02] <Cow_woC> oops

[22:25:04] <Cow_woC> wrong person

[22:25:12] <vinse> Cow_woC: I HAVE MY REASONS

[22:25:15] <Cow_woC> heh

[22:25:17] <Cow_woC> hehehe

[22:25:40] <Cow_woC> ricky_clarkson: I guess, in retrospect, it would be nice because I wouldn't be forced to catch it

[22:25:46] <Cow_woC> thanks for the idea

[22:27:15] <bpalmer> at least subclass RuntimeException...

[22:27:50] <Cow_woC> why?

[22:27:53] <bpalmer> I tend to, in project Project, create a ProjectException that extends RuntimeException, and then build my hierarchy off of there

[22:28:31] <bpalmer> oh, I guess in the case that ricky_clarkson shows, it's unnecessary

[22:28:47] <Cow_woC> I think I'll throw DatabaseException then :)

[22:28:53] <bpalmer> but using a subclass of RuntimeException lets you at least go back and review the places you bypassed the checking mechanism

[22:29:02] <Cow_woC> thanks for the suggestion

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[22:32:59] <Tomasso> has anyone used hibernate?

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[22:33:28] <bpalmer> ~poll

[22:33:28] <javabot> bpalmer, poll is something lamers do, like this: "who uses XXX?".  Instead, ask your question.  86.5% of polled users say that polling is annoying and useless.

[22:34:29] <vinse> i dont trust that 86.5% ... i heard that 53.2% of statistics are completely made up

[22:34:38] <gabb> Is there a lib for line graphs or is this something for Graphics2D ?

[22:39:22] <Cow_woC> Tomasso: yes

[22:40:06] <littlezoper> Tomasso: there's a #hibernate that might get more responses

[22:40:19] <littlezoper> several people here are there as well

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[22:42:43] <uto25> aiyaiyairc: alternative code ?

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[22:51:07] <jcscoobyrs> gabb: http://www.java-source.net

[22:53:18] <kinabalu> is there anything similar to LiveHttpHeaders in Firefox .. but external to Firefox?

[22:53:36] <AlphaOmega_wrk> yes

[22:53:36] <Storkme> besides a packet sniffer, i don't think so

[22:53:51] <AlphaOmega_wrk> kinabalu : snort

[22:53:55] <AlphaOmega_wrk> which is a packet sniffer

[22:53:57] <kinabalu> i need it locally though ..

[22:54:00] <AlphaOmega_wrk> yes

[22:54:05] <AlphaOmega_wrk> snort can run locally on your m,achine

[22:54:12] <AlphaOmega_wrk> when you run snort point it to your local interface

[22:54:36] <kinabalu> hrmm ...

[22:54:47] <AlphaOmega_wrk> i do it all the time ;)

[22:55:06] <kinabalu> AlphaOmega_wrk: oh ... i never thought of pointing to the local interface .. duh!

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[22:55:22] <^tutti^> hi

[22:55:25] <AlphaOmega_wrk> you can configure snort to just log the http headers too if you want , as oopsed to the whole request

[22:55:31] <^tutti^> how can i set my java library path on linux?

[22:55:36] <Lars_G> ethereal is another good sniffer

[22:55:42] <AlphaOmega_wrk> yah

[22:55:46] <kinabalu> i'll just use tcpflow .. easy

[22:55:48] <AlphaOmega_wrk> etheral is probably better since it has a gui

[22:55:58] <Lars_G> ^tutti^: It's normally better to change the classpath for every app you run than generally

[22:56:02] <AlphaOmega_wrk> ethereal*

[22:57:07] <^tutti^> Lars_G: i'm a newbie, how can i change it?

[22:57:27] <kinabalu> fuck .. running resin under linux ... i'm getting one result .. and running it onder OSX a completely different one ... bleh!

[22:57:37] <Lars_G> ^tutti^: java --classpath "<new classpath>"

[22:58:12] <^tutti^> Lars_G: java --classpath "new classpath" ClassName ?

[22:58:48] <Lars_G> ^tutti^: yes. of course change "new classpath" for the classpath you need

[22:59:09] <^tutti^> ok, tnx :D

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[23:03:13] <^tutti^> Lars_G: it not works :(

[23:03:48] <Lars_G> Nope.

[23:03:58] <Lars_G> what are you entering, what do you get? what do you need?

[23:04:01] <Lars_G> use the pastebin

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[23:04:13] <Storkme> is it possible to make a class that only one other class can use?

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[23:04:54] <cyclone> Storkme: put the two in a Package

[23:05:07] <bpalmer> Storkme: sure. Make a package with just the two, make the one only package accessible

[23:05:11] <Storkme> wouldn't a private subclass be easier?

[23:05:13] <bpalmer> darn cyclone's concise advice

[23:05:21] <cyclone> ;)

[23:05:29] <ernimril> but other people can put other classes in the same package...

[23:05:33] <cyclone> The only time I can answer something.

[23:05:37] <ernimril> unless you package a jar and seal it

[23:05:54] <bpalmer> excellent, this is Agile Design at work

[23:05:57] <cyclone> and ernimril just had to take it deeper

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[23:11:23] <^tutti^> java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: no HelloWorld in library path

[23:11:24] <^tutti^> at java.lang.Runtime.loadLibrary(Runtime.java)

[23:11:24] <^tutti^> at java.lang.System.loadLibrary(System.java)

[23:11:24] <^tutti^> at HelloWorld.main(HelloWorld.java)

[23:11:30] <^tutti^> i've this problem

[23:11:36] <^tutti^> how can i solve it?

[23:11:49] <ernimril> ^tutti^: what does the topic say about pasting?

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[23:13:55] <cyclone> ^tutti^: Use  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin

[23:14:04] <Drone> View ^tutti^'s post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8528

[23:14:11] <cyclone> If it is a HelloWorld.. possibly paste the code there.

[23:14:20] <^tutti^> sorry :)

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[23:17:20] <UBiTSA> I'm having some trouble... BufferedReader's skip() is skipping less than I want it to...

[23:17:32] <UBiTSA> I've gone through an entire text file and summed the characters, and then i skip that amount, but i don't get to the end of the file.

[23:17:52] <UBiTSA> is there a better/alternate way i should be counting the characters in the file, perhaps?

[23:18:10] <ernimril> UBiTSA: read the javadoc and see what skip returns.

[23:18:49] <ernimril> UBiTSA: and note that BufferedReader.readLine will never return line breaks

[23:20:02] <Siph0n_> Hi, I need some help with reading a file. I would like to read the first 8 bytes, ignore them, then read the next 8 bytes, compare them with another byte array, and then pass them to a FilterInputStream. I try in.read(bytearray1); in.read(bytearray2); compare(bytearray2,bytearray3); FilterInputerSteam(in,filter); But it gives me a null pointer exception on Windows, Linux, but works on Mac OS X.

[23:20:09] <UBiTSA> ah, line breaks

[23:20:14] <UBiTSA> ernimril, that might be it ;)

[23:20:15] <UBiTSA> thx

[23:20:31] <Siph0n_> Or rather pass the rest of a file to a FilterInputStream.

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[23:38:46] <verveeld> hey guys, i'm back.

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[23:39:55] <verveeld> I have a Server which spawns Threads for each connection. When I want to shutdown I set a variable running to false in each thread which will stop the thread by exiting the while loop in the thread....

[23:40:19] <Storkme> okay

[23:41:38] <verveeld> But in the thread, I am reading from the console using a BufferedReader.readLine(), which is not interruptable I guess, so when I go: thread.setRunningFalse(); thread.interrupt(); ... it must wait for input before stopping. Anyone know of an interruptable version of readLine()?

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[23:49:30] <verveeld> I see there is a FileChannel Class for asynchronous File I/O, but I dont think there is any general asynchronous stream I/O class

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   October 21, 2005  
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