[00:00:26] <mohadib> vinse: nice , are you a southerplayalisticpimp?
[00:00:37] * mohadib is cooler that a polar bears toe nails
[00:01:07] <mohadib> < vinse> i'm hip and stuff  lol
[00:01:13] <mohadib> javabot: vinse++
[00:01:13] <javabot> vinse has a karma level of 23, mohadib
[00:01:43] *** Chang_Wufei is now known as Wufei|Shower
[00:02:53] *** rizzo has quit IRC
[00:03:13] *** jann_ has quit IRC
[00:04:03] *** enervate has joined ##java
[00:08:43] <ricky_clarkson> Almost all UK towns will have a kebab house.
[00:09:29] <shingoki> when your evil plan comes to fruition?
[00:09:30] <ricky_clarkson> And someone said there is a difference between kebab and kabob, couljd they explain?
[00:09:42] <Uvizor> Atlanta has tons of Indian places and a few dozen Persian kabob houses.
[00:09:44] <ricky_clarkson> shingoki: s/will //
[00:10:07] <ricky_clarkson> Uvizor: Google for rusholme.
[00:10:09] <Uvizor> ricky_clarkson, More like a pronunciation.
[00:10:39] <ricky_clarkson> Uvizor: That's funny, seeing as kebabs are Turkish, not Persian.
[00:10:52] <FaeLLe> theres nothing Iranian/Persian about kebabs
[00:11:06] <FaeLLe> they are called Shawarmas (and not Showarmas) in the Middle East
[00:11:09] <Uvizor> ricky_clarkson, Turkey of today was a part of Persian empire.
[00:11:29] <shingoki> Shawarmas are nicer than kebabs
[00:11:34] <FaeLLe> anyday
[00:11:35] <ricky_clarkson> Uvizor: I don't refert o myself as a Roman.
[00:11:45] <FaeLLe> considering kebabs are wannabe shawarmas
[00:12:08] <Uvizor> ricky_clarkson, Kabob comes from the East of Turkey, North West of Iran, and Georgia (former USSR) so you could say that.
[00:12:09] <ricky_clarkson> Kobedeh kebabs are great if a little greasy.
[00:12:16] <FaeLLe> and they do have something called kababs in Iran/Middle East/India
[00:12:19] <Uvizor> Hah.
[00:12:30] *** Job1 has quit IRC
[00:12:49] <shingoki> ricky_clarkson, are they the ones where you are only allowed to eat them for as long as you can keep saying "kobadeh kobadeh kobadeh" ?
[00:12:53] <Uvizor> FaeLLe, Polo and Kabob is one of the favorit Irianian foods, very popular.
[00:12:54] <ricky_clarkson> Apparently not all foreigners exist to serve fast food.
[00:13:12] *** zariok has quit IRC
[00:13:26] *** hatOFF has joined ##java
[00:13:32] <shingoki> There's nothing like a spinning, glistening cylinder of flaccid meat
[00:13:34] <Uvizor> Actually make that "Cheloo and Kabob".
[00:13:42] <mohadib> shingoki: gross
[00:13:54] <shingoki> mohadib, we are just talking about kebabs!
[00:13:57] <mohadib> flaccid ...as opposed too?
[00:13:58] <ricky_clarkson> They have their own economies too, must be like playing monopoly.
[00:14:05] *** xcccc has joined ##java
[00:14:07] <Uvizor> shingoki, In most rural areas, that's exactly what you get. :)
[00:14:13] <xcccc> alright cnuts, i have a question
[00:14:20] *** Geren has quit IRC
[00:14:22] <FaeLLe> Uvizor: its not Kabob if you read it in arabic
[00:14:35] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: I have an answer, and it might involve a ban.
[00:14:48] <xcccc> what is the difference between interfaces and extends and when to use which?
[00:14:57] * cheeser blinks.
[00:15:00] <Uvizor> FaeLLe, I'm just merely using the Farsi equivalent pronunciation. Don't know anything about Arabic.
[00:15:08] <littlezoper> ~tell xcccc about first cup
[00:15:08] <javabot> xcccc, A friendly web page to get you started with Java programming: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/getStarted/cupojava/
[00:15:11] <cheeser> k.  enough of the kebabs
[00:15:12] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: interfaces and extends aren't really related.  I think you asked the wrong question.
[00:15:22] * cheeser nods sagely.
[00:15:23] <FaeLLe> good idea :p
[00:15:32] <xcccc> i know how to use interfaces, like for implementing multiple inheritence
[00:15:41] <xcccc> but when is extends used
[00:15:48] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: And for single inheritance.
[00:15:49] <xcccc> i know java, i just forgot
[00:15:58] <ricky_clarkson> ~extends
[00:15:58] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, extends is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/concepts/inheritance.html and http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/javaOO/subclass.html
[00:16:02] <xcccc> interfaces can be used for single inheritence
[00:16:03] <mohadib> xcccc: when you need to overide a method
[00:16:13] <mohadib> you extend
[00:16:24] <xcccc> hmm like overriding comparable?
[00:16:36] <mohadib> sure ... or toString() etc
[00:16:37] <ricky_clarkson> Is comparable a method?
[00:16:42] <xcccc> yes
[00:16:47] <mohadib> comparablle is an interface
[00:16:53] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: In which class?
[00:16:57] <xcccc> by override you mean operator overloading?
[00:16:59] <Lars_G> cheeser: There seems to be a sort of bonding between the people in this room.
[00:17:07] <vinse> xcccc: no java has no operator overloading
[00:17:09] <mohadib> xcccc: no
[00:17:10] <Lars_G> cheeser: And it fairly often wanders off topic.
[00:17:12] <xcccc> oh ok
[00:17:22] <xcccc> so overriding a method not an operator
[00:17:24] <Lars_G> cheeser: Wouldn't it be time to create a #java-offtopic ??
[00:17:25] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: Try learning Java i nstead of brining your C++ here.
[00:17:31] <Uvizor> xcccc, Interface is like a contract that a class which implements it is obligated to have those behaviors. Think of it as a super-type.
[00:17:42] <cheeser> Lars_G: feel free to do whatever you want.
[00:17:50] <xcccc> yes i understand interface
[00:17:56] <xcccc> but i don't understand extends
[00:17:58] <Lars_G> cheeser: Hmm I don't think it will work well but it doesn't hurts to try
[00:18:07] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: Why don't you understand extends?
[00:18:11] <cheeser> Lars_G: i already have channels wherein i ramble about random crap.
[00:18:13] <xcccc> what's an example of using extends for instance for toString()?
[00:18:28] <cheeser> xcccc: it sounds like you need to start at the "get started" link...
[00:18:38] <Uvizor> xcccc, With extends you are inheriting those behaviors from the superclass. That's all to it.
[00:18:41] <Lars_G> cheeser: Nevermind then.
[00:18:44] <vinse> xcccc: you can get this info from the tutorial that was just linked, minus the abuse
[00:18:53] <Lars_G> cheeser: I'll get used to the stigma of my personality and be done with it.
[00:18:57] <xcccc> ok
[00:19:09] <mohadib> xcccc:  public class Test{  public String toString(){ return "yay";}
[00:19:14] <mohadib> + }
[00:19:25] *** [TechGuy] has joined ##java
[00:19:34] <[TechGuy]> 'evening
[00:19:38] <mohadib> that method overides the default toString() provided by Object
[00:19:39] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: can I msg something?
[00:19:53] <ricky_clarkson> Ok, but I am* straight. ;)
[00:19:58] <Uvizor> Hah.
[00:19:58] <Lars_G> :P
[00:20:03] <xcccc> don't u need to say public class Test extends something?
[00:20:06] <shingoki> Lars_G, that's what he told me too, he's just playing hard to get
[00:20:22] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: Defaults to java.lang.Objnect.
[00:20:31] *** USMarine has quit IRC
[00:20:34] <[TechGuy]> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8393
[00:20:43] <mohadib> xcccc: all objects extend Object
[00:20:46] <mohadib> by default
[00:20:59] <hatOFF> mohadib, good to see you back
[00:21:04] <[TechGuy]> Anyone care to take a look to see whether that is the correct way of using reflection to get JavaBean-style setFoo() functions for setting field values?
[00:21:11] <mohadib> hatOFF: ;) howdy
[00:21:20] <xcccc> hmm so you don't need to explicittally say public String toString() extends toString() {code here}
[00:21:24] *** littlezoper has left ##java
[00:21:24] <[TechGuy]> (aside from my typo of putting "get" in the code instead of "set". :D)
[00:22:31] <xcccc> Interfaces do not have code to implement the methods declared within the interface. When a class implements an interface, it promises to provide those implementations. Basically, the class inherits only method signatures.
[00:22:31] <xcccc> When a class extends another class, the derived class is free to either inherit implementation from the parent class or write a new overriding implementation.
[00:22:32] <Uvizor> xcccc, Wow! I thought you said you know Java? No, when you extend a class in your subclass, you are inheriting those behaviors from the parent class. You do not have to explicitly add `extends' to the method signature.
[00:22:35] <xcccc> hmm makes sense
[00:22:54] *** Wufei|Shower is now known as Wufei|food
[00:23:16] <shingoki> xcccc, are you just quoting the tutorial to us now?
[00:23:18] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: Also note that an interface can extend an interface.
[00:23:30] <cheeser> xcccc: and you don't extend methods.
[00:23:30] <xcccc> yes mok
[00:23:34] <shingoki> xcccc, not that I mind, it's just kind of mind bending :)
[00:23:56] <Lars_G> In the worst of case, you wrap methods.
[00:24:02] <Uvizor> xcccc, But you cannot "implement" another interface, I hope that's obvious. But you can extend `abstract'.
[00:24:03] <Lars_G> s/of//
[00:24:17] <cheeser> Uvizor: eh?
[00:24:27] <xcccc> abstrac classes are similar to interfaces right
[00:24:30] <ricky_clarkson> Uvizor: You teh wrong.
[00:24:31] <Uvizor> cheeser, Yes?
[00:24:31] <cheeser> not really
[00:24:40] <cheeser> Uvizor: that last statement didn't make sense.
[00:24:45] *** vate has quit IRC
[00:24:54] <vinse> xcccc: they are similar only in that neither can be instantiated
[00:25:12] <Uvizor> cheeser, Hmm... Sorry, I meant to say "An interface cannot implement another interface."
[00:25:13] *** Nippa has quit IRC
[00:25:23] <Uvizor> ricky_clarkson, How am I wrong?
[00:25:30] <xcccc> if i want to port c++ use of pointers to Java what should i do, use arrays in java for pointers?
[00:25:39] <mohadib> xcccc: lol
[00:25:44] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: Give up.
[00:25:44] <mohadib> do you know what a pointer is?
[00:25:52] <shingoki> xcccc, no, you should either use C++, or learn to use Java
[00:25:55] <xcccc> yes
[00:26:21] <xcccc> hmm arrays seem like the best way of implementing pointers, unless you have another suggestion
[00:26:31] <shingoki> write proper code?
[00:26:33] <ricky_clarkson> Java has pointers.
[00:26:39] <xcccc> where?
[00:26:46] <ricky_clarkson> Everywhere.
[00:26:59] <xcccc> hmm how do you use pointers in java then?
[00:27:05] <mohadib> xcccc: you cant impliment a pointer in java
[00:27:06] <shingoki> xcccc, every reference is a pointer, you just don't need to feed it * signs to keep it happy
[00:27:12] <ricky_clarkson> JFrame frame=new JFRame();
[00:27:42] <cheeser> Uvizor: an interface can extend multiple other interfaces
[00:27:53] <xcccc> in c++ points ARE arrays, to port code i think using arrays in java is the best way
[00:28:06] <xcccc> you cannot use pointers in java
[00:28:09] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: Porting code is best done as a rewrite.
[00:28:11] <xcccc> because it sucks
[00:28:16] <Uvizor> cheeser, Yes, but what I said was it cannot "implement" another interface; I didn't say it can't "extend" it. :)
[00:28:17] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: You use pointers all the time in Java.
[00:28:28] <shingoki> a c++ pointer is only an array if it is an array, or you don't care about overwriting random memory
[00:28:37] *** joered has quit IRC
[00:28:59] <mohadib> ~topic
[00:28:59] <javabot> The topic has several references for your perusal. That's why Chanserv msgs you to read the topic.  Reading the topic and asking questions is a great way to get help.
[00:29:01] <Uvizor> xcccc, Reference might be a C++-style pointer or some arbitrary value identifying that memory. What constitutes the reference depends on the JVM implementation.
[00:29:31] <shingoki> xcccc, actually I solved your problem - use Java to write a C++ compiler :)
[00:29:43] <shingoki> or interpreter, your choice :)
[00:29:46] <ricky_clarkson> Uvizor: It is defined as a pointer.  But not C++-style.
[00:29:48] <xcccc> how would i implement c++ recursive methods with references in JAva?
[00:30:05] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: How would you implement them in C++?
[00:30:15] <shingoki> recursive methods and pointers, they go together like... two more or less unrelated things...
[00:30:17] <Drone> View mohaidb's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8394
[00:30:20] <xcccc> well you can, in java there are no references
[00:30:21] <ricky_clarkson> [don't flood, we've got a pastebin]
[00:30:23] *** Bevin has quit IRC
[00:30:30] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: Java has references.
[00:30:42] <xcccc> just like it has pointers right;)
[00:30:45] <Uvizor> ricky_clarkson, For most JVM's and I haven't seen any that does not. But it is not a must. *shrug*
[00:30:48] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: Kindly read what he write to you.
[00:30:54] <ricky_clarkson> s/he/we/
[00:30:56] <shingoki> xcccc, are you getting confused between C++ pointers and references, or between C++ pointers and Java references, or between C++ references and Java references?
[00:31:01] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: Pointers are refreences.
[00:31:09] <xcccc> not the same thing
[00:31:13] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: Pointers are refreences.
[00:31:21] <xcccc> not really
[00:31:25] <ricky_clarkson> Yes.
[00:31:28] <ricky_clarkson> Really.
[00:31:30] <Aradorn> heh
[00:31:31] <xcccc> not
[00:31:33] <shingoki> C++ pointers and refernces are different things
[00:31:33] <xcccc> really
[00:31:39] <Aradorn> im not getting in this conversation
[00:31:41] <xcccc> exactement
[00:31:54] <Uvizor> Aradorn, Smart decision.
[00:32:01] <xcccc> ricky_clarkson i can point you to a c++ start guide
[00:32:06] <ricky_clarkson> In Java they're not different.
[00:32:06] <shingoki> xcccc, anyway this is all completely pointless, stop trolling and do a Java tutorial
[00:32:13] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: Why?  We're talking about Java.
[00:32:15] <Aradorn> dont you reference a memory location and use a pointer to point to it? (just asking a question here)
[00:32:21] *** Bevin has joined ##java
[00:32:50] <shingoki> references and pointers are just two equally crappy C++ thingies, its not worth worrying about the difference :)
[00:32:52] <Lars_G> Aradorn: Pointers point somewhere, not necesarily a memory location
[00:33:05] <shingoki> references are slightly more limited, but the syntax is slightly less irritating
[00:33:26] <mohadib> ~tell hatOFF about knock knock server'
[00:33:27] <javabot> hatOFF, I guess the factoid 'knock knock' might be appropriate:
[00:33:28] <javabot> hatOFF, Who's there?
[00:33:31] <mohadib> heh
[00:33:36] <Aradorn> ok, heh i was confused for a second. Im not a C/C++ expert so i dont use pointers very often
[00:33:36] <Lars_G> shingoki: References are saner, for they do not allow you to acces the object directly you still need to use methods (if you coded it well)
[00:33:58] <xcccc> Java references are much closer to C++ pointers than they are to C++ references.
[00:33:59] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/third_edition/html/typesValues.html#4.3.1
[00:34:11] <Lars_G> I'm talking about Java References btw
[00:34:11] <ricky_clarkson> "The reference values (often just references) are pointers to these objects, and a special null reference, which refers to no object.
[00:34:14] <ricky_clarkson> "
[00:34:20] <shingoki> xcccc, if you know this, why are you going on about it, other than to troll?
[00:34:24] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: Er, you didn't know what Java references were a minute ago.
[00:34:35] <xcccc> The main differences between Java references (which, BTW, are also called pointers in the JLS) and C++ pointers are:
[00:34:38] <Aradorn> in the language im learning now you dont even use references, and are shunned on within the community
[00:34:38] <cheeser> yeah.  i'm not sure you're qualified to make that statement.
[00:34:41] <xcccc> You can't assign any arbitrary value to a Java reference like you can to a C++ pointer.
[00:34:56] <xcccc> and you can't to arithmetic on Java references!
[00:35:00] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: That's good.
[00:35:10] <Lars_G> cheeser: NullAddressingException
[00:35:19] <Aradorn> lol
[00:35:21] <Lars_G> cheeser: Destinatary of your comment unfanthomable
[00:35:23] <ricky_clarkson> Why would you want to do arithmetic or arbitary memory access on pointers?
[00:35:41] <cheeser> to smash the stack for fun and profit.
[00:35:43] <Aradorn> to hax0rz the gibson
[00:35:43] <xcccc> because you need it for complex code
[00:35:50] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: You do not.
[00:35:50] <shingoki> ricky_clarkson, because it is l33t and lets you do like, major haxxoring for speed and stuff
[00:35:51] <cheeser> Aradorn: "Hackers" sucked.
[00:35:52] <cheeser> 8^)=
[00:35:54] <Aradorn> lol
[00:35:58] <xcccc> yesh you do
[00:36:00] <mohadib> cheeser: sure did
[00:36:05] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: Bollocks.
[00:36:07] <mohadib> xcccc: go to efnet
[00:36:11] <cheeser> i thought it was cool back in the day.
[00:36:16] <Lars_G> xcccc: Nope, and direct arithmetic on pointers defeats the idea of OOP
[00:36:17] <shingoki> what's this gibson you need to haxxor?
[00:36:17] <cheeser> but, in reality, it sucks.
[00:36:17] <Aradorn> my Software Engineering teacher is named Gibson so that reference gets used alot at my College
[00:36:20] <mohadib> ~ridicule cheeser
[00:36:20] * javabot points at cheeser and laughs.
[00:36:22] <cheeser> 8^)=
[00:36:27] <mohadib> cheeser: ;)
[00:36:36] <shingoki> Aradorn, what does it refer to in the film?
[00:36:41] <xcccc> it's useful when writing viruses
[00:36:45] <cheeser> mohadib: i had the (dis)advantage of watching it when it was new.  you were still in diapers.
[00:36:49] <cheeser> 8^)=
[00:36:55] <cheeser> fsvo useful
[00:37:05] <Bevin> 'night
[00:37:08] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: Yes, because other C/C++ programs have buffer overflow problems.
[00:37:14] *** Bevin has quit IRC
[00:37:15] <ricky_clarkson> Guess what?``  Java doesn't have those.
[00:37:16] <mohadib> cheeser: lol , im as old as you i bet
[00:37:24] <Lars_G> cheeser: I agree, "Hackers" sucks. I am told "hackers 2" is decent but I haven't seen it.
[00:37:30] <xcccc> pointer arithmetic is where it's at these days
[00:37:37] *** makii has quit IRC
[00:37:37] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: Nope.
[00:37:45] <shingoki> no C++ coder will ever admit there is a problem with unfettered pointer mojo
[00:37:51] <ricky_clarkson> What does pointer arithmetic let you do that is useful?
[00:37:51] <shingoki> ricky_clarkson, he is just trolling ;)
[00:37:52] <Lars_G> Objection, you both are being argumentative
[00:37:58] <Sou|cutter> ricky_clarkson: hack
[00:38:06] <cheeser> xcccc: so.  do you have a java question?
[00:38:09] <shingoki> What's "gibson" ?
[00:38:12] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Are you writing Objectionable C?
[00:38:28] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Soon my friend, soon.
[00:38:29] *** Peeloo has quit IRC
[00:38:31] <cheeser> shingoki: it's a computer in the movie "Hackers"
[00:38:32] <xcccc> how would i convert c++ file handling to java file handling?
[00:38:38] <cheeser> javabot: tell xcccc about io
[00:38:39] <javabot> xcccc, io is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/essential/io
[00:38:43] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: With a hammer.
[00:38:46] <xcccc> which is better language for file handling?
[00:38:52] <ricky_clarkson> English.
[00:38:57] <shingoki> cheeser, reference to William Gibson?
[00:38:58] <Lars_G> cheeser: Whose name is afaik in honor to William Gibson, one of the precursors of the Cyberpunk literature.
[00:39:10] <cheeser> probably
[00:39:12] <Lars_G> shingoki: Most possibly
[00:39:17] <cybereal> shingoki: it's not specified but it's very very likely
[00:39:18] <shingoki> precursor!
[00:39:22] <vinse> precursors?
[00:39:22] <xcccc> which is better language for file handling java or c++?
[00:39:22] * cybereal likes Hackers
[00:39:26] <shingoki> he INVENTED cyberpunk, precursor my ass
[00:39:27] <vinse> i thought he was cyberpunk?
[00:39:30] <Lars_G> xcccc: perl
[00:39:31] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: Beter is meaningless without qualification.
[00:39:35] *** palomer has quit IRC
[00:39:39] <vinse> shingoki is right
[00:39:45] <xcccc> which is simpler for file handling java?
[00:39:53] <Lars_G> shingoki: Not THE precursor, and not the inventer, he was not the only one, though very good at it.
[00:40:07] <shingoki> Neuromancer kicked ass
[00:40:09] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: Simpler in what way?
[00:40:30] <ricky_clarkson> Shorter code?  Probably C++, or Perl.
[00:40:36] <vinse> Lars_G: the definition of precursor meant that he came _before_ cyberpunk, which is not the case
[00:40:37] <xcccc> hmm yes ok
[00:40:45] <vinse> Lars_G: i think that is shingoki's point
[00:40:50] <Aradorn> languages are tools, and each tool does a certain job better than another
[00:41:08] <Aradorn> i wouldnt build a house with a jackhammer, yet i wouldnt break concrete with a wrench
[00:41:10] <xcccc> if I have a C++ program with classes in more than one file i would i convert it into Java?
[00:41:13] <ricky_clarkson> Aradorn: And better is subjective.
[00:41:22] <Aradorn> true
[00:41:28] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell xcccc about make sense
[00:41:28] <javabot> xcccc, make: *** No rule to make target `sense'.  Stop.
[00:41:28] <shingoki> xcccc, you mean more than one class in one file?
[00:41:32] <xcccc> do i need to put all the code in one file
[00:41:32] *** adante_ has joined ##java
[00:41:40] *** renny_ has joined ##java
[00:41:42] *** Peeloo has joined ##java
[00:41:43] <Lars_G> vinse: Afaik he is one of the precursors, for he and a few others started writing the genre before it became consolidated and considered a genre per se, so precursor applies.
[00:41:48] <xcccc> Classes are in more than one file i mean
[00:41:59] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: I woul suggest learning Java.
[00:42:03] <Aradorn> anonymous classes are fun
[00:42:12] <Lars_G> xcccc: Dude, seriously, go read first cup of java, and some basic java instead of musing here.
[00:42:13] <cheeser> then the question of how to convert becomes easy
[00:42:15] <xcccc> does Java allow different classes in different files?
[00:42:23] <cheeser> xcccc: no more questions.  go read.
[00:42:23] <shingoki> Lars_G, well, I hate the term cyberpunk, I've never been quite sure where it came from, but for me Neuromancer definitely started something
[00:42:30] <xcccc> or do they all need to be in one file?
[00:42:37] <Aradorn> either or
[00:42:41] <Lars_G> shingoki: Neuromancer defined something and it's one of my favorite books yes.
[00:42:43] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: Read.
[00:42:53] *** PenguinOfDoom has joined ##java
[00:42:54] <xcccc> so you don't know ricky martin?
[00:43:02] <Lars_G> shingoki: Here, enjoy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk
[00:43:03] <Aradorn> man this push down automoton is really complicated lol...
[00:43:03] <ricky_clarkson> Only Kelly Clarkson.
[00:43:03] <shingoki> xcccc, no Java doesn't allow different classes in different files, it causes trouble for big projects, some Java source files are now millions of lines long and impossible to edit without specially engineered editors
[00:43:12] <PenguinOfDoom> Where in the stupid maze of links can I download the Sun JVM source code?
[00:43:15] <Lars_G> xcccc: Get out of the pool please.
[00:43:22] <renny_> did anybody decompile tequilacat bookreader?
[00:43:22] <shingoki> xcccc, ironically the only language fast enough to write these editors is C++, using heavy pointer arithmetic
[00:43:24] <Aradorn> shingoki hahaha
[00:43:27] <xcccc> thanks shingoki
[00:43:43] <xcccc> yes c++ is great
[00:43:51] <Lars_G> rofl.
[00:43:53] <ricky_clarkson> xcccc: You deserve to be trolled.
[00:43:58] <PenguinOfDoom> Oh, I'm sorry. Did I wonder in at the wrong time?
[00:44:00] * Lars_G laughs to tears
[00:44:02] *** kinabalu has joined ##java
[00:44:07] <shingoki> :)
[00:44:08] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: ping!
[00:44:11] <PenguinOfDoom> Could we please get done with stupid trolls and their stupid victims and get on with the program?
[00:44:12] *** BlurredWe has joined ##java
[00:44:15] <Lars_G> ~shingoki++
[00:44:16] <javabot> shingoki has a karma level of 16, Lars_G
[00:44:18] <cheeser> PenguinOfDoom: please...
[00:44:41] <BlurredWe> if in a class I refer to ./Filename, where does it look for that file?  (in that package, or at the base of the tree, or elsewhere?)
[00:44:53] <xcccc> to convert c++ global variable to Java, i guess i need to use static variables
[00:44:53] <PenguinOfDoom> cheeser: You are welcome!
[00:44:57] <cheeser> BlurredWe: using what access technique?
[00:44:59] <shingoki> BlurredWe, via getResource() ?
[00:45:13] <Aradorn> BlurredWe ??
[00:45:36] <ricky_clarkson> PenguinOfDoom: http://www.sun.com/software/communitysource/j2se/java2/download.xml
[00:45:44] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ricky_clarkson
[00:45:53] *** ricky_clarkson sets mode: +b %xcccc!*@*
[00:46:07] *** Geren has joined ##java
[00:46:08] <Geren> hi
[00:46:12] <cheeser> oi!
[00:46:13] <ricky_clarkson> That's a quiet, for  minutes, time enough to look for your answers.
[00:46:17] <PenguinOfDoom> ricky_clarkson: Thanks, I stumbled upon that by accident.
[00:46:21] <Geren> to continue my socket prorgramming from before...
[00:46:25] <ricky_clarkson> er, 5 minutes.
[00:46:27] * PenguinOfDoom stabs portals.
[00:46:37] <ricky_clarkson> PenguinOfDoom: I stumbled on it on purpose.
[00:46:39] <Geren> if i want to make a server that can echo whatever the client types on the screen, and i want the server to handle multiple clients
[00:46:44] <BlurredWe> shingoki, I have an xml file with config stuff in it, that is just fine being hardcoded in.  I just need to know how to address it.  In the end it'll be in the jar file
[00:46:46] <shingoki> heh ricky_clarkson you stole cheeser's chance for violence :)
[00:46:49] <Geren> then, would i need threads for this???
[00:46:50] <Lars_G> PenguinOfDoom: http://www.sun.com/software/communitysource/j2se/java2/download.xml
[00:46:58] *** papaJohn has quit IRC
[00:46:59] * cheeser bides his time.
[00:47:00] * Lars_G kicks ricky_clarkson
[00:47:05] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: No.
[00:47:06] <BlurredWe> Geren, you need one thread per client on the server
[00:47:12] <BlurredWe> Geren, well, maybe not
[00:47:18] <BlurredWe> Geren, makes it easy though
[00:47:29] *** xcccc has left ##java
[00:47:30] *** ijoyce has joined ##java
[00:47:36] <Geren> because each server/client connection would result in a loop in which the client can keep typing until he quits, So if each connecton is a loop, how would the server know when to accept new connections???
[00:47:37] <Lars_G> PenguinOfDoom: It wasn't hard. I opened java.sun.com, selected downloads, and on the J2SE list I selected Comunity Source.....
[00:47:45] <ricky_clarkson> One option is to return very quickly, therefore negating the need for multiple simultaneous clients.
[00:47:46] <shingoki> BlurredWe, you should probably get it via getResource then, that will work in a jar or on a filesystem, it is relative to class with nothing in front, just "something.xml" or if it starts with a "/" it is relative to base of package tree
[00:47:51] <ricky_clarkson> Another option is nio.
[00:47:53] <Aradorn> Geren: www.valdosta.edu/~jlchaunc/portfolio/cs4321/a3
[00:47:57] <shingoki> BlurredWe, there should be something about this somewhere :)
[00:48:00] <Aradorn> thats an echoserver/client written in java
[00:48:00] <Aradorn> have fun
[00:48:03] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Geren about nio
[00:48:03] <javabot> Geren, nio is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/nio/ and http://grexengine.com/sections/people/adam/nio/Converting_Tetris_from_io_to_NIO.html and http://gee.cs.oswego.edu/dl/cpjslides/nio.pdf
[00:48:05] <Geren> for now, i have while(true){ Socket myServer=connecton.accept()....}
[00:48:17] <Geren> but inside that while, i need a another while to take commands
[00:48:22] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Type less, read more.
[00:48:30] <Geren> which means i would never return to the big while to accept new connedtions
[00:48:32] <Lars_G> Aradorn: No it's not.
[00:48:35] <Lars_G> Aradorn: Sorry, We Can't Find the Page you Requested
[00:48:42] <Aradorn> gah
[00:48:43] <Aradorn> http://www.valdosta.edu/~jlchaunc/portfolio/CS4321/A3/
[00:48:48] <Aradorn> stupid case sensitive crap
[00:48:56] <Aradorn> =p
[00:49:22] <BlurredWe> what class has 'getResource'?
[00:49:25] *** ricky_clarkson sets mode: -b %xcccc!*@*
[00:49:31] <ricky_clarkson> BlurredWe: Class.
[00:49:36] *** ricky_clarkson sets mode: -o ricky_clarkson
[00:49:49] <Geren> Aradorn, that's what i'm doing, can you explain to me how you resolved this multiple-clients issue
[00:49:51] <Geren> without using threads?
[00:50:04] <cheeser> Geren: read on nio
[00:50:08] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Do you need +q so you can read too?
[00:50:29] * shingoki wonders if the power has gone to ricky_clarkson's head ;P
[00:50:38] <Aradorn> heh the framework was provided to me
[00:50:44] *** nirvdrum has joined ##java
[00:50:52] <ricky_clarkson> shingoki: I've been an op here fore ages.
[00:50:56] <mohadib> hatOFF: just write a class that impliments runnable and have the ctor take a socket as its argument
[00:51:12] <shingoki> ricky_clarkson, yeah but I've never seen you ban anyone, let alone two in two minutes ;)
[00:51:17] <Aradorn> just look over it, its plan and simple
[00:51:21] <Geren> hmm?
[00:51:26] <ricky_clarkson> shingoki: That was a quiet, not a ban.
[00:51:47] <shingoki> well, it says ban
[00:51:55] <cheeser> shingoki: it's a weird server thing
[00:51:58] <shingoki> I don't know this high falutin' IRC stuff :)
[00:52:03] <cheeser> +b %blah is a +q
[00:52:06] <Aradorn> you can ban someone and not kick them
[00:52:15] <shingoki> if they leave can they come back?
[00:52:23] <cheeser> nope
[00:52:26] <BlurredWe> shingoki: the getResource gets me a URL, and I need a File object out of it.  File does not have that constructor.  Am I missing something?
[00:52:27] <Drone> View mohadib's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8395
[00:52:29] <mohadib> hatOFF: ^^
[00:52:37] <hatOFF> okay
[00:52:41] <hatOFF> lemme see
[00:52:48] <Aradorn> anyone know the freenode ircOP help chan?
[00:52:50] <shingoki> BlurredWe, you don't need a file, most likely, try getResourceAsStream()
[00:52:52] <hatOFF> holly molly
[00:53:00] <mohadib> lol
[00:53:09] *** ramza3 has joined ##java
[00:53:20] <mohadib> hatOFF: just notice that the class implimets runnable and takes a socket in the ctor
[00:53:29] <mohadib> do that and i will help you with the rest tomorrow
[00:53:37] *** Mott has joined ##java
[00:53:46] <cheeser> (while he reads up on what he hopes to help with)
[00:53:47] <cheeser> 8^)=
[00:54:10] <shingoki> :)
[00:54:26] <shingoki> Then you'll be teachin' WULLIE!
[00:54:45] <ricky_clarkson> Aradorn: Type /stats p
[00:54:47] *** Peeloo has left ##java
[00:54:51] <hatOFF> i'll try to take a look
[00:54:53] <ricky_clarkson> or join #freenode (which is slower).
[00:55:11] <hatOFF> and if I'll manage to do something I'll be very proud of myself mohadib
[00:55:12] <hatOFF> :)
[00:55:29] <mohadib> you can do it , read up on threads
[00:55:35] <mohadib> ~tell hatOFF about threads
[00:55:35] <javabot> hatOFF, threads is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/essential/threads
[00:55:45] *** fevel has joined ##java
[00:56:08] *** Twiun is now known as Twiun[Zzzzz]
[00:56:12] <ricky_clarkson> EasterSunshine: That book is next to useless.
[00:56:12] <shingoki> Just remember, no matter how many times anyone tells you threads are easy, and no matter how many times you think you understand them, they will always bite you in the ass :)
[00:56:13] *** TimmyD01 has joined ##java
[00:56:37] *** Tac_work has quit IRC
[00:56:51] <ricky_clarkson> Threads aren't easy.  At all.
[00:57:03] <TimmyD01> sure they are
[00:57:04] <shingoki> yup
[00:57:04] <jwormy> but i'm easy, i'm easy like sunday mornin.
[00:57:09] <TimmyD01> well kinda
[00:57:12] <shingoki> heh
[00:57:12] <hatOFF> ok
[00:57:15] <hatOFF> catch you tomorrow
[00:57:18] <shingoki> sooooo easy...
[00:57:37] *** hatOFF has quit IRC
[00:57:58] <Aradorn> anyone know if IRC uses an open protocol so people can see chan chat without actually being in the chan?
[00:58:07] <Lars_G> jwormy: And then you ask why I say you're crazy
[00:58:23] <ricky_clarkson> Aradorn: Freenode does but only for IRCops afaik.
[00:58:27] *** Tokenizer has joined ##java
[00:58:30] <BlurredWe> thank you shingoki and ricky_clarkson for helping me out with that, I got it working
[00:58:35] <Aradorn> hrm
[00:58:37] <shingoki> np
[00:58:39] <ricky_clarkson> Aradorn: ##java is logged on a webshite if that's what you want.
[00:58:49] <Aradorn> er kinda
[00:59:01] <Aradorn> i wanna create abot that can study IRC chat without acutally having to be in the chan
[00:59:02] <BlurredWe> Aradorn, irc is wide open, sends plain text across the network, simple packet sniffing will let you read it
[00:59:07] *** Wufei|food is now known as Wufei|nap
[00:59:11] <ricky_clarkson> Aradorn: Why?
[00:59:30] <Aradorn> im studying Natural language processing
[00:59:32] <ricky_clarkson> BlurredWe: Only simple if you're sat in the right place.
[00:59:44] <ricky_clarkson> Aradorn: Why not be in the channel?
[00:59:44] <BlurredWe> Aradorn, the problem is that the server only sends you information for the channels you're in
[00:59:45] <Lars_G> BlurredWe: But what is sent to a client connection is filtered/decided by the server, and very very normaly, anything not visible to the client is not sent.
[00:59:54] <BlurredWe> ya :)
[01:00:02] <Lars_G> BlurredWe: You can get the whole enchilada only if you sniff the route between two servers.
[01:00:23] <Aradorn> for the data to be good i need to index as much information as possible and having a bot in every possible chan would be kinda pointless if i can just connect to the server and retrieve the text that way
[01:00:41] <Aradorn> everything is sent to the server, so thats what im wondering
[01:01:04] <ricky_clarkson> Aradorn: That would require hacks to the server, so it ain't happening.
[01:01:05] <Lars_G> Aradorn: You will only be able to do so by converting yourself in a server, and I ighly doubt freenode will let you host a server for the purposes you mention
[01:01:06] <BlurredWe> Aradorn, if you run the server, go for it, would be trivial, but no server op is going to let you sit in like that (I wouldn't think)
[01:01:07] <Aradorn> i know there are stat programs which see chan chat and record word usage and such
[01:01:15] <mohadib> shingoki: threads are not so hard , if you are careful with shared collections
[01:01:31] *** ]Phobos[ has quit IRC
[01:01:55] <shingoki> mohadib, it depends what you are doing really, simple threading is fine, I've just been doing some horrid threading recently
[01:02:00] <ricky_clarkson> Aradorn: There's no hardship in joining lots of channels.
[01:02:03] <Aradorn> see atm im studying word usage on the webpages, but conversational text would be a much better source
[01:02:04] <ricky_clarkson> Aradorn: See pircbot.
[01:02:17] <ricky_clarkson> Sorry, piespy.
[01:02:20] <shingoki> Aradorn, good luck finding a "conversation" on IRC :)
[01:02:21] <TimmyD01> are there any examples of threads that will allow messaging and file transfer on the same socket?
[01:02:28] <Lars_G> lol
[01:02:41] *** mohadib has quit IRC
[01:02:42] *** Mot has quit IRC
[01:02:55] <Aradorn> shingoki: it dosnt have to be an exact conversation, but text that i can analyze
[01:02:59] <shingoki> TimmyD01, threads? You mean libraries? like Jabber or something?
[01:03:28] <TimmyD01> no idea wat jabba is, so im going to say no
[01:03:32] <TimmyD01> babber*
[01:03:35] *** adante has quit IRC
[01:03:35] *** adante_ is now known as adante
[01:03:37] <shingoki> wibble
[01:03:40] <ricky_clarkson> TimmyD01: Go and find out.
[01:03:41] <TimmyD01> erf cant type
[01:03:41] <BlurredWe> Aradorn, why not just sit in on a few high traffic channels with a bot and be done with it
[01:03:49] <BlurredWe>  #gentoo is fast :)
[01:04:03] <Lars_G> Aradorn: Do like Google did for theyr alpha translation system, download the incredible heaps of open documents from the ONU and parse them
[01:04:04] <shingoki> up to 2% faster than precompiled!
[01:04:18] <BlurredWe> shingoki:  :)
[01:04:35] <ricky_clarkson> ~gentoosmite IRC
[01:04:36] * javabot spends 7 weeks recompiling IRC, and when it's all done, IRC runs 1% faster than previously.
[01:04:42] <shingoki> heh
[01:04:55] * Lars_G stabs ricky_clarkson in the brow with an ice pick
[01:05:09] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Not all gentooers are stupid and shallow you know.
[01:05:11] *** Mazon is now known as mazon
[01:05:29] <Lars_G> mazon: Your CRC just changed dude.
[01:05:29] <ricky_clarkson> Just all the ones in #gentoo and all the ones I met at the Gentoo UK Conference last year.
[01:05:41] <shingoki> Gentoo is just funny :) I'm sure it's great
[01:05:52] <Aradorn> hrm
[01:06:00] * Lars_G gently takes the ice pick off ricky_clarkson and aproaches shingoki
[01:06:01] <Lars_G> :)
[01:06:15] <ricky_clarkson> Nah, seriously, I think a lot of the goals of Gentoo and Debian are similar, it;s just that Debian users don't think they're 1337 and don't mind using binary.
[01:06:19] * BlurredWe started a flame (war, battle, skirmish?) unintentianally...
[01:06:26] <Aradorn> the problem i really see with what iw ant to do is recording the actual conversation so ic an analyze them... If i didnt record the nick it becomes hard for my AI to see who is talking to who
[01:06:35] * shingoki waits for Lars_G to realise that he could make a 3% better icepick if he carved it from a treetrunk, then smelted a pick head
[01:06:47] <ricky_clarkson> Aradorn: So record the nick.
[01:06:53] <[TechGuy]> and yet again, why can't this be accomplished by sitting all day in half a million channels?
[01:07:21] <ricky_clarkson> The eventual result will be that IRC sucks and the bot will kill itself.
[01:07:27] <Aradorn> heh
[01:07:32] *** Tac_work has joined ##java
[01:07:48] <cheeser> ricky_clarkson: neither do gentoo users.
[01:07:55] <shingoki> heh yeah, that should be the punishment for evil A.I.s, make them listen to the whole of IRC, 24 hours a day
[01:08:02] <Lars_G> Clash of the gods.
[01:08:05] <[TechGuy]> Repeat using Usenet. The eventual result is that Usenet's been dead (kinda) for years now, and you should've killed yourself years ago
[01:08:05] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: Gentoo users do mind using binary, afaict.
[01:08:08] <Tac_work> anyone know of any intranet apps developed that arent too bad? hopefully tailored to the dev industry ... or should i just get coding :-p
[01:08:11] <cheeser> ricky_clarkson: GRP.  nope.
[01:08:34] <shingoki> Tac_work, intranet like what, groupware?
[01:08:48] <ijoyce> intranet is not very specific
[01:08:56] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: The GRP only covers a default set of USE flags, which most Gentoo users don't choose, according to the Gentoo developers I spoke to last year.
[01:09:15] <Tac_work> something that will keep staff records.... manage projects.... other randomness .. calanders.. vacation maybe
[01:09:20] <cheeser> there are also binary servers you can use to dl/install stuff.
[01:09:22] <Tac_work> i should prolly jsut start writing :-p
[01:09:25] <cheeser> it's an option for those that want it.
[01:09:26] * [TechGuy] blinks
[01:09:35] <Lars_G> Tac_work: First you need to know what you want.
[01:09:42] <[TechGuy]> uhhh... hire a consultant and get SAP. ;P
[01:09:46] <Lars_G> Tac_work: Anyhow, dotproject (php based) is a decent system
[01:09:49] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: Are there binaries other than the GRP's USE flags?
[01:09:54] <ricky_clarkson> For download.
[01:10:03] *** overnout has joined ##Java
[01:10:05] <Tac_work> Lars_G, i knwo basically waht i want... but before i put too much thought into it i was hoping to find a good jumpoff
[01:10:06] <shingoki> Tac_work, I've been looking for some stuff like that, so far I have opengroupware.org, a mediwiki, webdav and CVS, but looking to go to SVN
[01:10:07] <cheeser> ricky_clarkson: i dunno.  i don't use it.
[01:10:17] <ricky_clarkson> Why not?
[01:10:35] <cheeser> because i like controlling the exact build.
[01:10:35] <[TechGuy]> Anyone know of a free helpdesk / trouble ticket system for Java? Only one I found costs $5k minimum
[01:10:51] <cheeser> i.e., no gnome crap and as little gtk+ crap as possible
[01:10:51] <ijoyce> [TechGuy], JIRA
[01:10:53] <Lars_G> [TechGuy]: FOR Java or IN Java?
[01:10:57] <[TechGuy]> in
[01:11:20] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: Do you control it beyond USE flags, i.e., altering source?
[01:11:24] <shingoki> Tac_work, there's "Zimbra" as well, if they ever get round to releasing it instead of just looking cool :)
[01:11:24] <ijoyce> [TechGuy], http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/
[01:11:50] <cheeser> ricky_clarkson: nah
[01:11:54] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: Is it possible that someone in the world uses the same USE flags as you?
[01:12:03] <cheeser> unlikely.  but possible.
[01:12:13] <Lars_G> cheeser: You're THAT unique? wow
[01:12:19] <shingoki> He's special
[01:12:23] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: So wouldn't it be faster, potentially at least, to have download servers for other combinations of USE flags?
[01:12:25] * cheeser rids the short bus.
[01:12:31] <[TechGuy]> lol
[01:12:32] <cheeser> ricky_clarkson: could be
[01:12:43] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: Would you use it if it was there?
[01:12:47] <cheeser> sure.
[01:13:03] <cheeser> i'm not all caught up in it has to be compiled.
[01:13:10] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Unfeasible.
[01:13:13] <ricky_clarkson> That's what the Gentoo developers whose meeting I hosted thought *wouldn't* happen.
[01:13:19] <cheeser> i think the system gentoo uses is the cleanest of all the distros i've used.
[01:13:20] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Why?
[01:13:24] <shingoki> Why use anything other than debian, when it is perfect? :P
[01:13:33] <[TechGuy]> because it's not
[01:13:34] <ricky_clarkson> shingoki: When is it perfect?
[01:13:34] <cheeser> shingoki: it was perfect 6 years ago.
[01:13:35] <cheeser> 8^)=
[01:13:48] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: The amount of combinations possible are so great that you'd require an incredible amount of resources to host them all.
[01:13:50] <shingoki> cheeser, yeah it is in a kind of timewarp :)
[01:13:56] <shingoki> ubuntu is more up to date
[01:13:58] <[TechGuy]> Jeez, they *still* don't have Cyrus 2.2 debs
[01:14:04] <Lars_G> shingoki: I use Ubuntu btw.
[01:14:07] <[TechGuy]> BSD. ;)
[01:14:20] <shingoki> Lars_G, ubuntu is great, I may well switch to it when I can be bothered to reinstall
[01:14:33] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: For PHP and other apps like that yes, but not for most apps.
[01:14:42] <ricky_clarkson> PHP has something like 90 USE flags.
[01:14:53] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Most apps have at least 2 USE flags.
[01:15:02] *** Sou|cutter has quit IRC
[01:15:09] <ricky_clarkson> 2 ieasy to host downloads for.
[01:15:14] <ricky_clarkson> s/ieasy/is easy/
[01:15:27] *** LearningJava has joined ##java
[01:15:32] <Lars_G> 2 USE flags mean at least 4 different binaries.
[01:15:36] *** Ulgar has quit IRC
[01:15:46] <ricky_clarkson> That's not amazingly idfficult.
[01:15:52] <Lars_G> and you have to take in account what dependecies will these 2 flags will bring in account.
[01:15:53] <ricky_clarkson> s/id/di/
[01:16:08] <Lars_G> But, that's easy to see.....
[01:16:14] <Lars_G> damn I don't have gentoo anymore.
[01:16:16] * shingoki forms a plan to haxxor gentoo so that it doesn't actually build from source, it just grabs a binary, and uses the CPU time to run SETI... would anyone really notice?
[01:16:18] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: It's certainly non-trivial.
[01:16:19] <LearningJava> Hi I would like to load a class whose name is passed as a command line parameter. Is that possible in java?
[01:16:23] <jwormy> i named my cat gentoo :)
[01:16:30] <[TechGuy]> hot damn... Too bad I didn't log into my /. account before posting this one comment. Got a +t
[01:16:32] <[TechGuy]> err +5
[01:16:39] <ricky_clarkson> LearningJava: Yes, but usually rather pointless.
[01:16:42] *** silasj has joined ##java
[01:16:42] <[TechGuy]> LearningJava: Class.forName
[01:16:48] <Lars_G> but with the gentoolkit it should be possible to script a quick look thorough the portage tree, count packages and theyr flags, and compute total number of binary files to create
[01:16:54] <TimmyD01> Is it possible to have a datagram socket connect while a socket is already connected?
[01:17:10] <[TechGuy]> huh
[01:17:12] <silasj> hello all
[01:17:24] *** horros has quit IRC
[01:17:27] <ricky_clarkson> TimmyD01: Yes, Java supports multitasking and non=-blocking IO.
[01:17:44] <ricky_clarkson> s/=//
[01:17:46] <LearningJava> ricky_clarkson, would Class correspond to the Class object?
[01:18:01] <ricky_clarkson> No.
[01:18:17] <ricky_clarkson> It's literally Class.
[01:18:43] <LearningJava> ricky_clarkson, thanks , will try that out
[01:18:57] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell LearningJava about javadoc Class.forName(*)
[01:18:57] <javabot> LearningJava, please see java.lang.Class.forName(java.lang.String): http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Class.html#forName(java.lang.String)
[01:19:10] <[TechGuy]> ~reflection
[01:19:11] <javabot> [TechGuy], reflection is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/reflect
[01:19:11] <ricky_clarkson> LearningJava: Note that this is reflection, an antipattern.
[01:19:17] <TimmyD01> ricky: does that apply to having a socket connect(port 1) whiile another socket's already connected(port 2)?
[01:19:50] <LearningJava> ricky_clarkson, ok
[01:20:02] <ricky_clarkson> TimmyD01: Ask better questions.
[01:20:10] <[TechGuy]> I'm writing a disturbing LDAP -> object loader using reflection
[01:20:22] <Tokenizer> i saw this questions once about JUnit which i didn't know the answer to.. anyone knows this? "only one assertEquals statement takes in three parameters. Which one is it and what does the third parameter do?"
[01:20:33] <Lars_G> [TechGuy]: ewwww
[01:20:50] *** StevenG has joined ##java
[01:20:54] <ricky_clarkson> Tokenizer: Find the jUnit documentation (API).
[01:20:55] <StevenG> hey :)
[01:21:11] <ricky_clarkson> G'day mite.
[01:21:12] <[TechGuy]> Can't think of any other decent way of doing LDAP loading.
[01:21:12] <ricky_clarkson> Shit, Steve, there are possums on the roof.
[01:21:25] <BlurredWe> Tokenizer - a bound.  It's for comparing floating points
[01:21:30] <TimmyD01> yeah im trying but none of the questions i ask get me an answer i can use
[01:21:31] <shingoki> dammit you beat me
[01:21:32] <[TechGuy]> And no, I'm not doing that half-assed serializable object form
[01:21:35] <Tokenizer> ricky, i did
[01:21:38] <Tokenizer> i didn't understand it
[01:21:48] <ricky_clarkson> Tokenizer: izzaurl
[01:21:54] <StevenG> hey all, im using version 1.5
[01:21:56] <ricky_clarkson> Er, give me a URL
[01:21:56] <Tokenizer> assertEquals(java.lang.String message, java.lang.String expected, java.lang.String actual)
[01:22:03] <StevenG> can anyone explain to me what the term generics means?? am stuck hehe
[01:22:14] <TimmyD01> lol, u guys really get packed with a punch in here..
[01:22:22] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell StevenG about generics
[01:22:22] <javabot> StevenG, generics is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/language/generics.html
[01:22:27] <[TechGuy]> grr. Ricky's too fast
[01:22:48] <Tokenizer> btw.. the url for that api was this ...... http://www.junit.org/junit/javadoc/3.8.1/index.htm
[01:22:49] <ricky_clarkson> Tokenizer: The 2nd is the expected value.  What do you think the third is?
[01:22:51] *** taf2 has joined ##java
[01:22:54] <ricky_clarkson> [TechGuy]: And that's with 5 seconds lag between keyboard and IRC client.
[01:23:04] <Tokenizer> what's the first "message"
[01:23:14] <Tokenizer> message is what i send it
[01:23:17] <Tokenizer> to assert
[01:23:22] <Tokenizer> 2nd is my value
[01:23:23] <Tokenizer> to test
[01:23:26] <[TechGuy]> ricky_clarkson: I had to think about it for a moment. :D Whether or not javabot would have ~generics
[01:23:27] <Tokenizer> and what's the third
[01:23:33] <ricky_clarkson> Tokenizer: Nope.
[01:23:56] <StevenG> thanks
[01:24:00] <StevenG> what do they mean when they say
[01:24:02] <StevenG> collection
[01:24:04] <StevenG> ?
[01:24:10] <ricky_clarkson> ~collection
[01:24:10] <[TechGuy]> ~collections
[01:24:10] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, collection is http://www.darksleep.com/notablog/format.cgi?article=Java_Collections_Tutorial.foo
[01:24:13] <javabot> [TechGuy], collections is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/collections
[01:24:19] <TimmyD01> lol
[01:24:21] <[TechGuy]> haha
[01:24:22] <TimmyD01> its like a race
[01:24:44] <[TechGuy]> That should be done in the high-pitched Nelson voice
[01:24:52] * ricky_clarkson is not racist.
[01:24:53] <Tokenizer> ricky "no" what
[01:25:25] <ricky_clarkson> Tokenizer: The message is not the expected valuje, and the expected is not the actual value.
[01:25:45] *** Tac_work has quit IRC
[01:26:09] <Tokenizer> ok. lez take a method that returns "token" .. so i send it "token", "toasdfafdken", "????????"
[01:26:11] <shingoki> ricky_clarkson, it's... almost as if... the parameter names have a significance... if only we could work out the subtle code...
[01:26:28] * shingoki deactivates Captain Teacup mode
[01:26:33] <cheeser> if only java had named parameters when calling methods.
[01:26:49] <Amnesiac> Perl++
[01:26:50] <Amnesiac> :P
[01:26:53] <ricky_clarkson> Tokenizer: "toasdfafdken" is not equal to "????????" so output "token" on stderr.
[01:26:57] <shingoki> then we could have longer calls for almost no benefit? ;)
[01:27:14] <[TechGuy]> This is officially an ugly piece of code:
[01:27:15] <[TechGuy]> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8396
[01:27:44] <Tokenizer> what i meant by question marks is what do i type there
[01:27:49] <Tokenizer> what is the paramete
[01:27:57] <Tokenizer> ok... let me state my question clearly
[01:28:13] <Tokenizer> what do you send that assertEquals() that takes 3 parameters
[01:28:21] <ricky_clarkson> Tokenizer: Use the two-arg form.
[01:28:29] <Tokenizer> hehe
[01:28:36] <Tokenizer> ok.. that's not what i asked
[01:28:36] <ricky_clarkson> Tokenizer: message,expected,actual
[01:28:43] <Tokenizer> what's message
[01:28:49] <Tokenizer> what's expected and what's actual
[01:28:54] <ricky_clarkson> What do you think?
[01:29:04] <Tokenizer> obviously if i knew i wouldn't be here
[01:29:20] <Tokenizer> please do not answer my question with a question....... either answer or don't
[01:29:33] <shingoki> Tokenizer, what do the waords "expected" and "actual" mean to you?
[01:29:40] <shingoki> oh that's a question
[01:29:41] <shingoki> crap
[01:29:48] <Tokenizer> ok. so what's message
[01:29:55] <Tokenizer> if you look at api
[01:30:07] <ricky_clarkson> Tokenizer: What does the word message mean?
[01:30:09] *** klontj has joined ##java
[01:30:24] <shingoki> Actually I never noticed that 3 arg method :)
[01:30:26] <Tokenizer> you see that they call the first parameter message all the time.... that place in assert equals is reserved for what you call expected
[01:30:31] <shingoki> I can't say it will keep me awake at night
[01:30:46] <Tokenizer> shingoki. neither did i ... and it's on last year's exam
[01:31:05] <shingoki> Tokenizer, this is why you shouldn't do a computing course :)
[01:31:17] *** Tokenizer has left ##java
[01:31:32] <vinse> lol
[01:31:34] <shingoki> I wasn't actually intending to be unpleasant :(
[01:31:50] <shingoki> I mean, that is a pretty odd question to have on an exam
[01:31:50] <vinse> he deserved it
[01:32:16] <shingoki> Yeah but I don't like to be nasty to people, just slightly sarcastic :(
[01:33:10] *** golya has joined ##java
[01:34:04] *** golya has joined ##java
[01:34:48] <Lars_G> He didn't want to think at all
[01:35:09] <ricky_clarkson> To be fair there's no explanation of it in that API.
[01:35:38] <shingoki> Yeah I actually meant it when I said I had never seen the method, "message" could do anything I guess
[01:35:41] <Lars_G> time to go, wind down.
[01:35:44] *** Lars_G has quit IRC
[01:35:48] *** ThinkNOLA has joined ##java
[01:35:48] <shingoki> what a weird question for an exam though
[01:35:48] <ricky_clarkson> I think he';s suffering from paper code.
[01:36:02] <shingoki> not TIASing?
[01:36:05] <ricky_clarkson> Try it and see might have been a good answer.
[01:36:09] <shingoki> yup
[01:36:12] *** ThinkNOLA has quit IRC
[01:36:40] <ricky_clarkson> Right, gonna get to bed before 1am tonight, got flu or something.
[01:36:50] *** Aradorn has quit IRC
[01:36:50] <shingoki> that sucks
[01:37:06] <shingoki> I think I'll get an early night too
[01:37:09] <golya> Hi! A newbie Q. I have class A, and class B extending class A.
[01:37:14] *** nirvdrum has quit IRC
[01:37:14] <ricky_clarkson> I normally get pretty mild symptoms then pass it on as full-blown flu to everyone I know.
[01:37:32] <golya> class A's constructor acesses a static variable v
[01:37:42] <shingoki> ricky_clarkson, that's nice of you :) I specialise in managing to hold off stuff for about a week, then getting it after everyone elas has recovered
[01:37:47] <ricky_clarkson> golya: A non-newbie Q. Why bother subclassing?
[01:37:56] *** zackkk has joined ##java
[01:37:58] <golya> class B's constructor invoke's it's parent's constructor
[01:38:34] *** shaggyoaf has quit IRC
[01:38:41] <golya> If I override variable v in class B, it won't have any effect in B's constructor :(
[01:38:55] <ricky_clarkson> Define override.
[01:39:08] <shingoki> golya, just a general note because I'm going in a sec, but sometimes it is easier to understand and explain these things if you actually write a small test case
[01:39:09] <[TechGuy]> arggghh... this hurts my head. I have a bad feeling I'm going to have to write some type of attribute mapping control file for my LDAP objects
[01:39:16] <golya> class A { protected static int = 0; }
[01:39:17] <shingoki> golya, then you can put it on pastebin
[01:39:27] <golya> will paste
[01:39:34] *** chippy has quit IRC
[01:39:43] <ricky_clarkson> Static members are not inherited, only the access to them is.  I don't care that the JLS disagrees with me on this. ;)
[01:40:05] <shingoki> right, night all
[01:40:06] *** shingoki has quit IRC
[01:41:00] *** zackk has quit IRC
[01:41:06] <ricky_clarkson> final clas A { private static int nameless; }
[01:41:06] <ricky_clarkson> ;)
[01:41:24] *** Zink0 has quit IRC
[01:41:29] <ricky_clarkson> "Have code.  Will paste"
[01:41:40] <Drone> View golya's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8397
[01:42:23] <ricky_clarkson> golya: Both declarations of i are unrelated.
[01:42:58] <golya> ricky_clarkson: well, how to relate them? :)
[01:43:04] <ricky_clarkson> What you have done is hidden, or shadowed a field.
[01:43:04] <golya> I need class-wise constants
[01:43:09] <ricky_clarkson> golya: Not to.
[01:43:26] <ricky_clarkson> No you don't.
[01:43:53] <golya> The scenario behind: I have a Printer class, and subclasses
[01:44:07] <golya> Printer's constructor calls the print method
[01:44:15] *** mkhl has joined ##java
[01:44:22] <golya> printing is done according to the variables set in subclasses
[01:44:31] *** YD has quit IRC
[01:44:32] <golya> (should be so...)
[01:44:41] <ricky_clarkson> Printer doesn't need any variables.
[01:44:47] <ricky_clarkson> Only the subclasses do.
[01:45:00] <golya> And than what?
[01:45:15] <golya> Many Printer's are similar, using similar codeblocks
[01:45:19] <ricky_clarkson> Then Printer calls Print and they print.
[01:45:44] <ricky_clarkson> So put the similar codeblocks into a shared place, e.g., a static method in another class, e.g., PrinterUtility.
[01:45:45] <golya> Difference: it needs a signature or not
[01:45:52] <golya> It needs a header or not...
[01:45:55] <ricky_clarkson> What?
[01:46:16] <golya> what what?
[01:46:22] <ricky_clarkson> what what what?
[01:46:55] <golya> what is unclear? ask, I'll try to answer.
[01:46:57] <ricky_clarkson> "It needs a header or not" what?
[01:47:01] <[TechGuy]> <High School Cheerleader> What what what what what what what we got spirit!
[01:47:19] <golya> Some Printers needs to print a header, some printers not.
[01:47:46] <ricky_clarkson> golya: So that can be decided in the print method of each subclass of Printer.
[01:48:14] *** mohadib has joined ##java
[01:48:52] <golya> ricky_clarkson: the subclasses are *very* similar
[01:48:59] <ricky_clarkson> So?
[01:49:22] <golya> rewriting print everywhere is an overkill
[01:49:27] <golya> IMHO
[01:49:31] *** vimacs has joined ##java
[01:49:42] <ricky_clarkson> I'm not suggesting to do that.
[01:49:49] <ricky_clarkson> Put the common code in a common place.
[01:49:57] <ricky_clarkson> = 00:47:25 < ricky_clarkson> So put the similar codeblocks into a shared place, e.g., a static method in another class, e.g., PrinterUtility.
[01:50:20] *** enervate has quit IRC
[01:50:52] *** enervate has joined ##java
[01:51:12] <golya> ricky_clarkson: ok, I get the idea, but if I have 2 Printers, which are made of about 10 methods, and the only difference is eg the title (just one row)
[01:51:31] <golya> And they must be equal in all other meaning...
[01:51:34] <ricky_clarkson> If you find that most of the code is the same you might be looking at writing it as a Template Method (design pattern).
[01:51:45] *** [TechGuy] has quit IRC
[01:52:10] <mohadib> i wish email was more ftp like :\
[01:53:08] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: Did you email me something earlier?
[01:53:20] <mohadib> i tried
[01:53:25] *** renny_ has quit IRC
[01:53:31] <mohadib> too big for my mail server
[01:53:32] *** synic has quit IRC
[01:53:33] <mohadib> it choked
[01:53:38] <ricky_clarkson> What happened?
[01:53:43] <mohadib> ill put it on my web server
[01:53:46] <ricky_clarkson> Haha.
[01:53:46] <mohadib> it just timed out
[01:54:09] <ricky_clarkson> Ok, bujt I'll have to get it in the morning, sleepy time.
[01:54:25] <ricky_clarkson> That'll only be in about 7 hours.
[01:54:40] <mohadib> np , sleep well
[01:54:56] <ricky_clarkson> Shush!
[01:54:59] <TimmyD01> anyone know of any examples that use two server socket threads?
[01:55:05] <mohadib> sure
[01:55:10] <mohadib> a few of them
[01:55:31] * golya is tired to, will think about subclassing
[01:55:40] <golya> s/to/too/
[01:55:47] <mohadib> ~topic
[01:55:47] <javabot> The topic has several references for your perusal. That's why Chanserv msgs you to read the topic.  Reading the topic and asking questions is a great way to get help.
[01:56:16] <mohadib> TimmyD01: are you talking about a server that binds to multiple ports?
[01:56:19] <ricky_clarkson> golya: The problem with static is that it's simpler than you look.
[01:56:26] <ricky_clarkson> The problem with sublcassing is that it's more complex than you look.
[01:56:29] <mohadib> or just a server that can handle more than one client at a time
[01:56:47] <TimmyD01> no ive already got multiple clients connecting
[01:56:57] <mohadib> so...
[01:57:04] <TimmyD01> i need the server for multiple ports
[01:57:05] <golya> ricky_clarkson: and my classes do not form a tree
[01:57:07] * mohadib milks TimmyD01 for fsking info
[01:57:32] <TimmyD01> messaging on 1 port, file transfer on the other
[01:57:43] <mohadib> TimmyD01: ahh , look at a ftp impl
[01:58:29] *** klontj has quit IRC
[01:58:34] *** Stalli0n has joined ##java
[01:58:43] <mohadib> TimmyD01: with ftp , the client can send a command , the server sends back the port and ip it will be listening on
[01:58:52] <mohadib> then you connect and pump your data to it
[01:59:03] <mohadib> the serrver sends a string back
[01:59:05] <mohadib> and the waits
[01:59:15] <mohadib> this helps with firewalled clients
[01:59:40] <mohadib> port or pasv
[01:59:48] <mohadib> i always get them confused
[02:00:06] <TimmyD01> :/ will this work for a chat program..?
[02:00:12] <mohadib> sure
[02:00:31] <mohadib> just have the server tell the client what port to connect to
[02:01:01] <TimmyD01> i want the port numbers already hard coded into the program
[02:01:12] <mohadib> TimmyD01: ok
[02:01:13] <TimmyD01> and the client will already have the ip of the server
[02:01:15] <mohadib> that works too
[02:01:36] *** Nerve has joined ##java
[02:02:09] <Nerve> hey guys, can someone explain to me what this message means: public int littleFilter(String w)
[02:02:09] <Nerve> {
[02:02:09] <Nerve>
[02:02:09] <Nerve> 	if (w.length() >= 4)
[02:02:09] <Nerve> 		install(w);
[02:02:10] <Nerve> 	else
[02:02:12] <Nerve> 		system.out.println("Donka, donka! This word is too small");
[02:02:14] <Nerve> }
[02:02:16] <Nerve> woa
[02:02:22] <mohadib> using the above methods it is possible to hhave a file ftp from one box to another , controlling it all from a thrid box ... lie scp
[02:02:26] <mohadib> fine work Nerve
[02:02:46] <Nerve> ha, yea sorry middle button didn't have the text I expected
[02:02:57] *** ZenMasterJG has joined ##java
[02:02:59] <mohadib> Nerve: do you use irssi?
[02:02:59] <Nerve> so the error is: cd /home/nerve/projects/wcounter && ant dist -buildfile build.xml -quiet
[02:03:00] <Nerve> [javac] /home/nerve/projects/wcounter/RecorderV.java:134: 'class' or 'interface' expected [javac] public int littleFilter(String w) [javac] ^ [javac] 1 error
[02:03:06] <Nerve> mohadib, no, why?
[02:03:27] *** Weems has joined ##java
[02:03:28] <mohadib> it would alert you ... says you are about to paste 20 lines ... ctrl-k or something to accept
[02:03:36] <StevenG> ok so i know what generics do now
[02:03:43] <StevenG> but like, how does the generics that java uses
[02:03:50] <StevenG> differ from like, c++
[02:03:51] <StevenG> ?
[02:04:07] <mohadib> they only exist at compile time
[02:04:07] <StevenG> like in terms of how expressive it is
[02:04:15] <Nerve> mohadib, yea, i remember that, i can't use irssi effectively
[02:04:23] <mohadib> Nerve: ;)
[02:06:05] <Nerve> :P, so any ideas on what that error message says?
[02:06:21] <Nerve> I can't read java errors as effectively as c++, i transfered schools and eveyrthing is done with coffee :P
[02:06:21] *** Esaj has quit IRC
[02:07:53] <mohadib> !! i got to comb my hair tomrrow
[02:08:02] * mohadib does not own a comb
[02:08:09] <mohadib> :\
[02:08:28] <golya> mohadib: do you have scissors? :-D
[02:08:30] <cybereal> shave it off
[02:08:42] <mohadib> hehe , i just made an appt to get some hairs cut
[02:08:55] <mohadib> cybereal: i would , but i have big ears :p
[02:08:58] <dvoss> How do I resize a window so that the content pane is such-and-such a dimension?
[02:08:59] <golya> ehehe, lazy programmers here ;-)
[02:09:00] *** fuso has quit IRC
[02:09:13] <mohadib> dvoss: setSize()?
[02:09:16] <mohadib> revalidate
[02:09:28] <dvoss> setSize() on the content pane?
[02:09:38] <golya> mohadib: headband? :)
[02:09:38] <mohadib> dvoss: on the frame
[02:09:42] <mohadib> the contentpane will follow
[02:09:58] <mohadib> golya: haha , when i comb it , it doesnt look much better :p
[02:10:20] <dvoss> But I want the window to fit *around* a dimension.
[02:10:30] <mohadib> dvoss: ?
[02:10:31] <mohadib> huh
[02:10:42] <mohadib> set the window to the size you want the content pane
[02:10:53] <mohadib> the content pane cant be smaller that the window
[02:10:57] <mohadib> or it will just grow
[02:11:05] <mohadib> so set the window size
[02:11:26] <mohadib> the content pane can not force a size on the frame iirc
[02:11:37] <dvoss> Like, I know I want a 10x10 content pane, so how do I know how big I should set the window so that the title-bar etc can fit?
[02:12:19] <mohadib> dvoss: 10X10?
[02:12:24] <dvoss> or whatever
[02:12:29] <mohadib> how much title bar do you plan on having?
[02:12:33] <mohadib> oh
[02:12:37] <dvoss> whatever matches the l&f
[02:13:06] *** golya has quit IRC
[02:13:07] <mohadib> i dont know , i just set the frame to the size i want
[02:13:42] <mohadib> i have never tried to get the content pane an exact size
[02:15:20] *** shadowrider has joined ##java
[02:15:23] <dvoss> Well, I can call getInsets() on the frame, that will give me the size of the title bar. I don't think that includes the menu bar, though.
[02:15:54] <shadowrider> anyone know how can i raise awt events? for example, i want to raise a MouseEvent on a given component
[02:16:16] *** Aron_Figaro has joined ##java
[02:16:20] <mohadib> dvoss: you can ask the menubar how big it is ... if this is a java menubar we are talking about
[02:16:22] <Aron_Figaro> heya Java peeps! :)
[02:16:38] <dvoss> mohadib: I think that will work.
[02:17:14] <Aron_Figaro> Has anyone here worked with J2EE EJB setups before? My infernal prof and TAs are useless for actually teaching anything and I can't find anything concrete online.
[02:17:50] <mohadib> thos who cant teach :p
[02:18:10] <Aron_Figaro> Exactly. Anybody? :)
[02:18:37] <Aron_Figaro> I just need a rundown on what they actually DO. I can code bloody well anything decently if I actually know what it's for and what the components and API methods do, but...
[02:18:50] <Aron_Figaro> right now I'm making stabs in the dark and have a class diagram for the pile of crud due on Friday. ><
[02:19:56] *** ZenMasterJG has left ##java
[02:20:44] <TimmyD01> mohadib: how do you bind a server socket to multiple ports? i wanna try this way b4 i learn ftp stuff
[02:20:57] <mohadib> TimmyD01: you cantr
[02:21:04] <mohadib> you have to make mu;ltiple sockets
[02:21:28] <Aron_Figaro> Indeed.
[02:22:12] <Aron_Figaro> If you want to serve groups of clients you're honestly better off using an existing connection framework, maybe RMI or a web-based interface depending on what you've got clientside.
[02:23:21] *** taf2 has quit IRC
[02:23:21] <TimmyD01> i cant use web-based (im creating a chat program) and ive no idea on how to use RMI
[02:23:24] <TimmyD01> :/
[02:23:49] <Aron_Figaro> Chat programs can handle a web-based interface, actually, it's just clumsy unless you interface it with a Flash app and that gets messy
[02:24:08] <Aron_Figaro> though a good web-based Java chat applet is actually pretty slick :)
[02:24:10] <mohadib> TimmyD01: its easy enough
[02:24:28] <mohadib> TimmyD01: you could just use the commons ftp class and be done with it
[02:24:33] <mohadib> add it to your chat client
[02:24:52] <Aron_Figaro> So...anybody for EJB? :P
[02:24:55] <mohadib> or not ... it's easy enough
[02:25:33] <TimmyD01> :/
[02:25:58] <mohadib> TimmyD01: dude ... have your app spawn a new socket ... whats the hold up
[02:26:17] <mohadib> make a scoket just like the one thst serves the communication connection
[02:26:22] <mohadib> blam
[02:27:10] * pr3d4t0r hovers over the channel, looking for aolbonics-spouting retards.
[02:27:33] <Aron_Figaro> Not getting any from me, pred.
[02:27:41] <pr3d4t0r> Aron_Figaro: Excellent.
[02:27:43] <Aron_Figaro> Please tell me you know something about EJB? P
[02:27:47] <mohadib> javabot: irc hello pr3d4t0r
[02:27:48] <javabot> rofl hello pr3d4t0r mouarf!!!111!!!!111oneone
[02:27:53] <pr3d4t0r> Aron_Figaro: I don't pounce on the innocent, don't worry.
[02:27:58] <Aron_Figaro> pred: good kitty.
[02:27:59] <pr3d4t0r>  /kick mohadib
[02:28:01] <mohadib> ;)
[02:28:02] <Aron_Figaro> lol
[02:28:03] <wig> why can't switch statements (case that is) in java take variables
[02:28:13] <pr3d4t0r> Aron_Figaro: I can tell you that EJBs suck when it comes to performance.
[02:28:23] <Aron_Figaro> pred: doesn't matter, I have to use 'em for this godawful course.
[02:28:26] <mohadib> wig: what do you mean
[02:28:37] <mohadib> wig: like , why cant you switch on a string?
[02:28:42] <wig> like, you can only use constants like 'A' Or '2' or something
[02:28:43] <Aron_Figaro> I hate web programming to begin with, I'm a game designer. Right now though I know jack all about how to do anything with them - nobody can teach in this bloody class. :(
[02:28:52] <mohadib> wig: you can use enums :)
[02:28:53] <wig> case var:    you can't do that
[02:28:54] <Aron_Figaro> Oh, he means like "Case *variablename*"
[02:29:06] <mohadib> oh
[02:29:08] <Aron_Figaro> yeah, you can't do that, because the compiler can't register it.
[02:29:13] <pr3d4t0r> wig: Because Java is a bit retarded.
[02:29:13] <wig> how come
[02:29:19] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: yo
[02:29:23] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu!
[02:29:33] <kinabalu> kinabalu: I blame the president
[02:29:34] <wig> yeah, me and a friend were discussing this, and i thought maybe there was some answer
[02:29:36] <Aron_Figaro> j0 Kina
[02:29:45] * pr3d4t0r eyes Aron_Figaro
[02:29:53] *** nirvdrum has joined ##java
[02:29:55] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: so .. got the treo650 back ...
[02:30:06] <pr3d4t0r> wig: The answer is in the JLS.
[02:30:11] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell wig about JLS
[02:30:12] <javabot> wig, JLS is The Java Language Specification: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/
[02:30:25] <pr3d4t0r> wig: It has to do with the code generated for switch/case statements.
[02:30:39] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: So...
[02:30:53] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: I'll give you $50.
[02:31:01] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: haha .. i'll take it to ebay :)
[02:31:03] <Aron_Figaro> So...does anyone have the time and inclination to give poor me that rundown on EJBs asap? I'm kinda in a bind here.
[02:31:11] <pr3d4t0r> kinabalu: What would you consider a reasonable offer?
[02:31:14] <zackkk> wig -- the idenitifies have to be constant, since variables can change throughout your program
[02:31:21] <kinabalu> pr3d4t0r: hold on .. let me check ebay ...
[02:31:21] <zackkk> identifiers*
[02:31:35] * pr3d4t0r mumbles... bastahd...
[02:31:58] <mohadib> zackkk: constant in what sense?
[02:32:07] *** wcstok has joined ##java
[02:33:26] <TimmyD01> mohabid: i cant just make a socket like the communication one, cause thats what i did and i get a communication refused exception
[02:34:43] <mohadib> erm
[02:34:55] <mohadib> TimmyD01: try again
[02:35:02] <mohadib> you can bind as many sockets as you want
[02:35:13] <mohadib> as long as they are on differient ports
[02:36:18] <TimmyD01> may you be so kind as to allow me to ask for an example?
[02:37:42] <mohadib> hmm http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/second_edition/html/statements.doc.html#35518  this does not really say why you can only use primitves
[02:37:49] * mohadib looks some more
[02:37:53] <mohadib> TimmyD01: user
[02:37:55] <mohadib> suer
[02:37:57] <mohadib> fuck lol
[02:38:39] <Aron_Figaro> lol
[02:38:49] <Drone> View dvoss's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8398
[02:39:28] <dvoss> Pasted resize-frame-to-content-pane code.
[02:41:07] *** dvoss has quit IRC
[02:43:22] *** b14ck has quit IRC
[02:44:52] <Drone> View mohadib's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8399
[02:45:03] <mohadib> TimmyD01: ^^
[02:47:18] *** L----D has joined ##java
[02:48:05] <Aron_Figaro> So can anyone help me figure out EJB? Pleeeease?
[02:48:33] <Aron_Figaro> If you ask what I need to know...I just need a general overview of how it all works relative to an actual system - what part of the architecture correspond to what, and such.
[02:48:47] <cheeser> javabot: j2ee
[02:48:47] <javabot> cheeser, j2ee is http://java.sun.com/j2ee, and an overview at http://java.sun.com/j2ee/1.4/docs/tutorial/doc/images/overview-j2eeArchitecture.gif
[02:48:56] <ramza3> can anybody see this: http://65.5.191.156/apache2-default/
[02:48:59] <cheeser> tutorials can be found there as well as sample apps
[02:49:05] <Aron_Figaro> been there.
[02:49:11] <cheeser> ramza3: yep
[02:49:12] <Aron_Figaro> page not found.
[02:49:21] <cybereal> ramza3: I got "seeing this instead of" blah default apache page
[02:49:33] <Aron_Figaro> oh, hello Mr. Comma :P
[02:49:35] <Aron_Figaro> now it's found XD
[02:49:41] <Aron_Figaro> and yes, I've been there.
[02:49:50] <L----D> ramza3, yes , it;s work
[02:50:34] <ramza3> cool, it should be a static-ip, we will see
[02:51:22] *** ractrev has joined ##java
[02:51:35] *** Aron_Figaro has left ##java
[02:51:42] *** oxez has joined ##java
[02:52:48] <L----D> ramza3, there is a apache channel
[02:54:32] <oxez> Hi, I have a homework to do in Java and I'm kinda stuck. Here is my situation: I have an Hashtable, which the key is a String, and the value is a Vector. I can't find a way to work with that Vector. I've tried (Vector)myHashtable.get(myKey).addElement((someClass)anotherNewObject) and it doesn't work..
[02:54:45] <TimmyD01> Ohhhh Didn't work (homer voice)
[02:55:02] <oxez> no need for a complete anwser, a hint would be highly appreciated :]
[02:55:07] * mohadib wonders how people new to java make a b-line for vectors :p
[02:55:14] <mohadib> s/how/why/
[02:55:22] <oxez> what do you mean by b-line?
[02:55:24] <cheeser> the tuts...
[02:55:29] <cheeser> bee line?
[02:55:37] <mohadib> i ghuess
[02:55:44] <mohadib> i dont even know what it really means
[02:55:57] <cheeser> oxez: i'll give you this one because i don't know of a doc I can point you to read:
[02:56:25] <TimmyD01> http://rafb.net/paste/results/wzEi8j32.html <--server for communication
[02:56:34] *** cm_patric has quit IRC
[02:56:40] <cheeser> ((Vector)myHashtable.get(myKey)).addElement(anotherNewObject)
[02:56:56] <mohadib> Vector clients = new Vector();  :)
[02:56:57] <cheeser> oxez: to figure out such problems, you should start by breaking out each step
[02:57:13] <TimmyD01> http://rafb.net/paste/results/ZvSdtW91.html <-- server for file IO
[02:57:15] <cheeser> putting everything on one line like that will only confuse you as it has here
[02:57:30] <oxez> cheeser: okay
[02:57:31] <mohadib> TimmyD01: ok
[02:57:34] *** StevenG has quit IRC
[02:57:44] <oxez> Thank you cheeser
[02:59:19] *** jmelloy has joined ##java
[02:59:39] *** Bob7 has quit IRC
[02:59:50] *** shadowrider has left ##java
[03:00:05] <mohadib> TimmyD01: does it work ?
[03:00:24] *** MrPrimate has joined ##java
[03:00:44] <TimmyD01> nope, connection refused when ever i try send a file through
[03:00:52] <mohadib> Runnable runnable = new FileIO(sg, socket, ++count);  <-- that is strange
[03:00:59] <MrPrimate> have you guys ever had the trouble where you set a bunch of swing UI tweaks, and it doesn't show up, but if you crate another of the same JFrame , it works the 2nd time ??
[03:01:15] <oxez> cheeser: of course, that did it. Thanks again :]
[03:01:25] *** Heuristic has joined ##java
[03:01:30] <TimmyD01> heheh i was just trying something
[03:01:33] *** Bob7 has joined ##java
[03:01:38] <TimmyD01> i dont think that even works
[03:01:47] *** Bob7 has quit IRC
[03:01:56] <mohadib> TimmyD01: that code should recurse forever
[03:02:22] <mohadib> you make a new instance and start it in run()
[03:02:26] <mohadib> actually
[03:02:32] <mohadib> your method never gets called at all
[03:02:40] <jmelloy> 'm having trouble with a Resin config file.  is there a better place to ask?
[03:02:41] <cheeser> oxez: np
[03:02:47] <mohadib> your thread never starts at all
[03:02:51] *** EasterSunshine has quit IRC
[03:03:36] <mohadib> but if you did start it.... you would get an out of memory error i bet
[03:04:49] <TimmyD01> ur right
[03:05:08] <TimmyD01> that run() doesnt start at all
[03:05:38] <mohadib> well heh
[03:05:47] <mohadib> your trying to bootstrap a thread :p
[03:06:21] <jwormy> bootstrap is a fun word
[03:06:45] <mohadib> truely
[03:06:47] <TimmyD01> lol
[03:08:10] *** Stalli0n has quit IRC
[03:10:19] *** silasj has quit IRC
[03:10:47] *** Lars_G has joined ##java
[03:10:58] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: pingus
[03:11:31] *** overnout has quit IRC
[03:13:13] <TimmyD01> blah
[03:15:44] *** KimHansen has quit IRC
[03:16:41] *** alex_f has quit IRC
[03:17:32] *** Stalli0n has joined ##java
[03:18:10] *** alex_f has joined ##java
[03:18:37] *** alex_f has quit IRC
[03:18:39] *** amorph has joined ##java
[03:20:11] *** alex_f has joined ##java
[03:22:29] *** jmelloy has quit IRC
[03:23:24] *** tirunculus_javae has joined ##java
[03:25:46] *** solus has quit IRC
[03:32:07] *** rake has quit IRC
[03:33:16] *** vate has joined ##java
[03:38:17] *** slava has joined ##java
[03:38:51] <LearningJava> Hi , if I want to use a signed jar file in another application ( I am using security manager here ) does the signed jar file need to have a package?
[03:39:41] *** Stalli0n has quit IRC
[03:39:55] *** Logi has joined ##java
[03:40:14] <vinse> LearningJava: Back away from the baby-sitter!
[03:40:33] *** cored has joined ##java
[03:40:39] <vinse> if you're really learning, split that question into manageable parts that you can at least try to work out on your own
[03:41:14] <LearningJava> Okay , I have a signed jar file that I want to use in my application, How do i do so?
[03:41:27] <vinse> do you know how to import a file from a regular jar?
[03:41:27] *** Aradorn has joined ##java
[03:41:50] <vinse> do you know how to use a class that's in another package, jarred or not?
[03:41:54] <LearningJava> i just do a import com.java.foo right?
[03:42:06] <LearningJava> i put the jar file in my classpath
[03:42:33] <vinse> does foo need to be in a package?
[03:42:51] <LearningJava> I guess so
[03:44:09] <vinse> i'm trying to remember what movie "back away from the babysitter" was from
[03:44:21] <vinse> some 80s john hughes-ish type movie i think
[03:44:31] *** shadowrider has joined ##java
[03:44:33] *** ractrev has quit IRC
[03:45:04] <nirvdrum> vinse: "Adventures in Babysitting"?
[03:45:18] <LearningJava> what does it mean anyway .. Back Away from the baby-sitter?
[03:45:28] <vinse> LearningJava: i'm not really sure
[03:45:37] <vinse> your question just made me think of it
[03:45:56] <vinse> it means "stop before you find yourself in a bad situation"
[03:45:59] <vinse> i guess
[03:46:22] <vinse> nirvdrum: you maybe right, i cant find anthing in google though
[03:46:47] <BlurredWe> what happens when I make an inner class static.  Does it change how it acts (other than letting my main() instantiate it?)
[03:48:19] <shadowrider> anyone know how can i raise awt events such as button clicks? I am looking for a way to "emulate" a click on a button
[03:48:59] <slava> BlurredWe: it lets you use instantiate class from a static context
[03:49:10] <slava> BlurredWe: and the class cannot access instance variables in its containing class
[03:49:27] <BlurredWe> slava: thanks :)
[03:50:48] <shadowrider> slava, do you have any idea how can i do that?
[03:50:58] <slava> ~javadoc Robot
[03:50:58] <javabot> slava, please see java.awt.Robot: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/awt/Robot.html
[03:51:18] <Geren> i'd like to specify a statement in a while condition
[03:51:25] <Geren> like while(line=input.readLine();)
[03:51:31] <Geren> is thta legal?
[03:51:35] <slava> remove the semicolon
[03:51:36] <cheeser> javabot: tell Geren about tias
[03:51:36] <javabot> Geren, Try It And See.  You look silly asking if something will work when you can just try it and see.
[03:51:46] <Geren> yes i removed the semicolon, and it says it's illeal
[03:51:48] <slava> Geren: the common idiom is while((line = in.readLine()) != null)
[03:52:00] <Amnesiac> slava.yield()
[03:52:00] <Geren> ok
[03:52:06] <cheeser> Geren: you should read the compiler errors
[03:52:17] <slava> yes, the while expression has to evaluate to a boolean
[03:53:13] <shadowrider> slava thanks for the link, but i was looking for a thing where i could dispatch an Event, since I am creating new Event classes that contain additional information
[03:53:22] <slava> sounds gross
[03:53:33] <slava> separate your GUI from the backend, and just call methods on the backend
[03:54:07] *** enervate has quit IRC
[03:54:30] <Aradorn> MVC 4tw
[03:54:44] *** stefan has joined ##java
[03:54:50] <slava> you don't need MVC, just some kind of separation allowing you to call the same logic that an event handler does
[03:55:26] <shadowrider> you mean, calling the event handlers directly instead of generating the event?
[03:55:35] <slava> no, calling what the event handlers call
[03:55:45] <slava> an event handler should be a couple of method calls, not a huge body of code
[03:56:08] <shadowrider> yeah, the thing is that it should look like a mouse click, a key press, or some other event
[03:56:14] <slava> why?
[03:56:39] <shadowrider> I am trying to implement something to allow me control multiple mice
[03:56:57] <shadowrider> where each one should have it's own cursor
[03:57:34] <cybereal> ~tell Aradorn about aolbonics
[03:57:35] <javabot> Aradorn, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
[03:57:54] *** Pi_Wizard has joined ##java
[03:58:00] <Lars_G> slava: Hey.
[03:58:08] <shadowrider> currently i am drawing this cursors on the glass pane of a jframe (may be not the best choice) and i need to dispatch a mouse event to the widget under the cursor when its corresponding cursor is over the component
[03:58:10] <Pi_Wizard> Anyone here ever use junit as a test harness?
[03:58:13] <Geren> does in.ReadLine() include the linebreak?
[03:58:15] <Lars_G> slava: If you see pr3d4t0r would you ask him if he wants to come to VE for my bday next sat?
[03:58:25] <slava> Lars_G: i'm not an answering machine
[03:58:27] <cybereal> Geren: You asked about this over an hour ago
[03:58:37] <Geren> i'm sorry!!!
[03:58:40] <cybereal> Did you forget?
[03:58:41] <slava> Geren: no it doesn't
[03:59:47] <Aradorn> ok well next time ill do ftw then
[04:00:04] <Aradorn> instead of using a number...
[04:00:44] <Lars_G> slava: Are you sure? :)
[04:00:48] <Geren>  while((line=input2.readLine())!=null){
[04:00:48] <Geren>   if(line=="test"){
[04:00:48] <Geren> ....}
[04:00:51] <Lars_G> slava: Thanks anyhow.
[04:00:57] <Geren> so in this input-loop, if the user types "test" and hits enter
[04:01:05] <Geren> will that be caputred by the if stateement?
[04:01:37] <Aradorn> just do input2.readLine() != null
[04:01:52] <Geren> yes but how would i compare this to anything
[04:02:02] *** Lars_G has quit IRC
[04:02:04] <Geren> i mean when i do the !=null, the line has already been read
[04:02:06] <Geren> so its lost
[04:02:10] <Geren> i have to save it while i do the comparison
[04:02:34] <cybereal> Geren: you can't do string comparison with ==
[04:02:39] <cheeser> Geren: try the loop.
[04:02:39] <Aradorn> then do line = input2.readLine(); while (line != null) if (blah) { } line = input.readLine();
[04:02:42] <Aradorn> much easier to read
[04:02:42] <cybereal> Geren: you will do line.equals("test");
[04:02:50] <Geren> wtf
[04:02:52] <slava> Aradorn: why would he do that?
[04:02:53] <Geren> i thought in java u can!!!
[04:02:54] <cheeser> quit asking questions until you write code and see it doesn't work.
[04:03:01] <cheeser> javabot: tell Geren about string comparison
[04:03:01] <javabot> Geren, string comparison is http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-ebb0917a.html
[04:03:02] <slava> Geren: you have to use equals()
[04:03:02] <Geren> i wrote the code and it doesnt work
[04:03:07] <Geren> omg!
[04:03:22] * cybereal laughs
[04:03:26] <cybereal> Geren: you need to chill out
[04:03:48] <Pi_Wizard> Anyone here ever use junit as a test harness?
[04:03:48] <Aradorn> if your learning to program you should try and write atleast somewhat clean code and formatting so its easier for you to debug/read
[04:04:14] <slava> Aradorn: while((line=input2.readLine())!=null) is fine
[04:04:24] <Aradorn> didnt say it wasnt
[04:04:58] <cybereal> Aradorn: it's more readable than your example due to being more succinct
[04:04:59] <cheeser> Pi_Wizard: yes.
[04:05:45] <Pi_Wizard> Ok now... I am trying to get it to work... i set the classpath like they said and even put the directory into my working directory but it just wont detect the test classes... :/
[04:06:02] *** lasala has quit IRC
[04:06:04] <cheeser> Pi_Wizard: it all works with the classpath like everything else.
[04:06:29] <Aradorn> Pi_Wizard are you using the -cp command?
[04:06:57] <Aradorn> if so dont forget to add . to it so it looks in your current dir as well
[04:07:45] <TimmyD01> put your hand up if u wanna do my work for me :D
[04:07:58] <Pi_Wizard> I'll show an example my professor gave us
[04:07:59] <cybereal> ~tell TimmyD01 about aolbonics
[04:07:59] <javabot> TimmyD01, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
[04:08:10] <Pi_Wizard> http://www.cs.mun.ca/~rod/Fall2005/3718/notes/junit/junit.html
[04:08:24] <Pi_Wizard> It tells us how to do it but mine just wont detect junit lol
[04:08:53] <TimmyD01> sorry
[04:08:54] <TimmyD01> lol
[04:08:59] <cybereal> :)
[04:09:13] <cheeser> Pi_Wizard: are you using ant?  or working from the command line?
[04:09:18] <TimmyD01> put you're hand up if you wish to do my work for me :D
[04:09:21] <Pi_Wizard> command line
[04:09:30] <Pi_Wizard> i am trying to get this working first
[04:09:39] <Pi_Wizard> then i will use ant to package my class and test harness
[04:09:58] <cheeser> fair enough
[04:10:04] <cybereal> TimmyD01: closer
[04:10:12] <cybereal> ~tell TimmyD01 about apostrophe
[04:10:13] <javabot> TimmyD01, apostrophe is http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/ or if you want a simpler answer let Bob tell you all about it at http://angryflower.com/aposter.html
[04:10:16] <cheeser> paste the command you're using and the error in the pastebin
[04:10:28] *** wcstok has quit IRC
[04:10:38] <Pi_Wizard> ok one second
[04:11:50] <TimmyD01> put your hand up if you wish to do my work for me :D, is that better?
[04:12:04] *** rizzo has joined ##java
[04:12:06] <cybereal> TimmyD01: good job! you now sound approximately 100 times smarter
[04:12:14] <cybereal> TimmyD01: but I'm not going to do your work for you :)
[04:12:20] <TimmyD01> awwww
[04:13:17] <slava> lazy students
[04:13:20] <Aradorn> someone want to help me figure out the transition functions for this Push Down Automaton i have to write?
[04:13:25] <Aradorn> =p
[04:13:27] <slava> lazy students
[04:13:28] <Pi_Wizard> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/zCxaAz71.html
[04:13:30] <Pi_Wizard> there
[04:13:34] <TimmyD01> not lazy, just frustrated
[04:13:59] *** draven has joined ##java
[04:14:05] <slava> realize that your CS assignments are trivial and get on with it
[04:14:17] <cheeser> 8^)=
[04:14:18] <draven> ~tell draven about jstl arrays
[04:14:18] <javabot> draven, I guess the factoid 'arrays' might be appropriate:
[04:14:20] <javabot> draven, arrays is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/java/data/arrays.html
[04:14:24] <draven> ~tell draven about jstl
[04:14:25] <javabot> draven, jstl is JavaServer Pages Standard Tag Library, http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/jstl/
[04:14:42] <cheeser> javabot: tell draven about useless tell
[04:14:43] <javabot> draven, when telling yourself something, just use ~something, not ~tell me about something or ~tell MyNick about something.  Save those precious fingers.  Mmm, Cadbury's Fingers.
[04:14:55] <TimmyD01> grr i hate the ConnectionRefused Exception!
[04:15:20] * TimmyD01 headshot's ConnectionRefused Exception in the head
[04:15:29] <Pi_Wizard> I assume it's because it isn't importing correct
[04:15:34] <Pi_Wizard> but i've tried everything to fix it heh
[04:16:02] <Aradorn> i solved 5 sophmore level projects saturday in about 2 hour s=)
[04:16:03] <Pi_Wizard> Even messed with the directory structure to see if it will import better
[04:16:22] <cheeser> Pi_Wizard: it's junit it can't find.
[04:16:28] <cheeser> make sure the junit.jar is in your CP
[04:16:52] *** kuonSama has joined ##java
[04:16:55] <kuonSama> hello
[04:17:05] <kuonSama> I have a script that generate a file with an array like this myArray = { [1] = { ["name"] = "smidth", ["age"] = 34, ["infos"] = { <an other array here, with other sub array>}}}
[04:17:06] <cybereal> TimmyD01: Why?  Seems like a rather useful exception to me
[04:17:15] *** ivanneto has joined ##java
[04:17:18] <kuonSama> is there a build in class to read it into java array?
[04:17:24] <kuonSama> or should I write a parser?
[04:17:33] <Pi_Wizard> what's the command for it? set classpath=%classpath$;junit.jar ?
[04:17:47] <cybereal> kuonSama: I think there is something called Jason for that stuff
[04:17:48] <slava> kuonSama: BeanShell
[04:17:54] *** cHaoTiCa has joined ##java
[04:18:04] <kuonSama> ok I'll look, thanks
[04:18:06] <slava> kuonSama: it can read java code (including literal expressions) at runtime
[04:18:10] <TimmyD01> i hate it because it should just connect regardless if theres already a server socket
[04:18:40] <TimmyD01> i cant get the silly server socket threaded
[04:18:43] <TimmyD01> ><!
[04:18:56] <cheeser> Pi_Wizard: verify the package name in junit.jar...
[04:19:10] <cybereal> TimmyD01: what you said doesn't make a lot of sense, but, I'm guessing you're wrong in your assumption
[04:19:21] <Pi_Wizard> i got to extract it for that?
[04:19:34] <cheeser> jar -tf junit.jar | less
[04:19:43] * cybereal goes back to debugging his annoying software
[04:19:46] <Pi_Wizard> thanks ^^
[04:20:03] <slava> cybereal: i'm debugging annoying software too, we must work for the same company
[04:20:26] <cHaoTiCa> as if only one company puts out annoying software.  :)
[04:20:28] <Pi_Wizard> junit.framwork yep it's there
[04:20:32] <cybereal> Heh
[04:20:39] <Pi_Wizard> with all the Test.class
[04:20:40] <Pi_Wizard> and such
[04:21:17] <Pi_Wizard> so was that the correct classpath command i used for windows?
[04:21:20] *** ThinkNOLA has joined ##java
[04:21:56] *** ThinkNOLA has left ##java
[04:22:38] *** dover has joined ##java
[04:25:17] *** Azrael_- has quit IRC
[04:25:57] *** ramza3 has quit IRC
[04:26:31] *** whaley has quit IRC
[04:27:19] <TimmyD01> cyberal: all im trying to do atm, is get my server to accept a connection on port 1111 and 1112
[04:28:28] <TimmyD01> s/cyberal/cybereal
[04:28:57] <cHaoTiCa> TimmyD01...heh.  code?
[04:29:29] <cybereal> TimmyD01: read the topic
[04:29:32] <TimmyD01> http://rafb.net/paste/results/ZvSdtW91.html <-- server for file transfer
[04:29:32] <cybereal> TimmyD01: use the pastebin there
[04:29:35] <cybereal> or there :)
[04:29:37] <TimmyD01> http://rafb.net/paste/results/wzEi8j32.html <--server for communication
[04:30:22] <cHaoTiCa> extends Thread _and_ implements Runnable?  :)
[04:31:08] <TimmyD01> yeah, just added extends Thread... didnt change anything though
[04:31:34] <cHaoTiCa> you don't need to extend Thread.  it'll cause you more problems than it fixes.  :)
[04:32:09] <slava> extenting thread doesn't cause any problems
[04:32:35] <cHaoTiCa> if you have a good reason too, it doesn't
[04:32:57] <slava> what problems does it cause?
[04:33:00] *** ivanneto has left ##java
[04:33:12] <TimmyD01> well it didnt do anything
[04:33:32] <TimmyD01> so it's gone now
[04:33:35] <cHaoTiCa> among other things, the inability to extend anything else
[04:34:13] *** dibblego has joined ##java
[04:34:16] <dibblego> ~operatorrs
[04:34:17] <javabot> dibblego, I have no idea what operatorrs is.
[04:34:18] <dibblego> ~operators
[04:34:19] <javabot> dibblego, operators is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/operators.html
[04:34:21] *** dibblego has left ##java
[04:34:46] <cybereal> cHaoTiCa: lame, find a real reason :)
[04:34:47] <cHaoTiCa> TimmyD01....it looks here like you're probably going to got stuck in a loop creating threads
[04:34:58] <Geren> in socket programming, when exactly do u need to flush your output stream?
[04:35:05] <Geren> everytime u output something, u need to flush it?
[04:35:10] <cHaoTiCa> cybereal...heh, ok.  in this case, he's never calling super() :)
[04:35:16] <cheeser> javabot: tell Geren about u
[04:35:16] <javabot> Geren, u is Dutch for "you" or an aolbonic meaning "I am stupid".
[04:35:20] <Geren> sorry
[04:35:28] <Geren> when do you need to flush your output stream?
[04:35:36] <Geren> everytime you output something, you need to flush it?
[04:36:29] <TimmyD01> so.. any ideas on how to fix it broken app? :D
[04:36:31] <cHaoTiCa> TimmyD01.....you probably don't want te first thing in run() to be "hey, create another one of me"  :)
[04:36:53] *** kinabalu has quit IRC
[04:37:19] <cHaoTiCa> take out the thread creation and startup in run() for now
[04:37:19] <TimmyD01> well.. i dont even get that far :/
[04:37:25] <TimmyD01> the run method never starts
[04:37:46] <cHaoTiCa> you've debugged it?
[04:38:37] <TimmyD01> added println's b4 ServerSocket in FileIO and doesnt start the run method
[04:39:03] <kuonSama> I tried beanshell, but it can't parse this table (lua generated table)
[04:39:04] <TimmyD01> s/b4/before
[04:39:16] <TimmyD01> my client gets a connection refused before it begins to run
[04:39:38] <cybereal> kuonSama: that's because beanshell is for java code, not lua... you might try getting lua to write it in a more generic parseable format
[04:39:47] <cHaoTiCa> not surprising.  the server should crash :)
[04:40:35] <kuonSama> cyberea1, yea, but I can't alter the generated table.
[04:41:14] <kuonSama> because the lua script is a plug in to a program and I must use the program api to write my table to a file
[04:41:33] <cybereal> kuonSama: write a lua script to parse translate the table into xml or something then
[04:41:44] <kuonSama> then I want to write a small java parse that send this data to a jdbc database
[04:41:49] <cybereal> kuonSama: or find a lua parser for java, or write your own parser
[04:41:58] <kuonSama> I think I'll write my own parser
[04:42:04] <slava> no lua parser for java exists.
[04:42:15] <kuonSama> won't we long anyway, as I just need to parse a table
[04:42:26] <cHaoTiCa> TimmyD01....where is class ServerThread?
[04:42:36] * slava likes languages that have built-in libraries to read and *write* their own syntax
[04:43:06] <cheeser> yeah.  i wish java had that...
[04:43:16] <cHaoTiCa> heh.  .net has code providers :)
[04:43:16] <TimmyD01> http://rafb.net/paste/results/K9hMPG82.html
[04:43:28] <slava> cheeser: beanshell does the reading part
[04:43:30] <kuonSama> actualy the output from the lua script is the same as a php script, I don't like php but perhaps I will use it to send to the database if it's faster to code, because this is not a production project
[04:43:43] <TimmyD01> thats serverThread class
[04:43:43] <kuonSama> anyway thanks for the help
[04:46:08] <cHaoTiCa> extend Thread or implement Runnable.  pick one :)
[04:47:11] <pr3d4t0r> Meh.
[04:47:18] <cybereal> I pick... go home and play video games!
[04:47:25] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G left.
[04:47:36] <slava> hi pr3d4t0r
[04:47:50] <slava> pr3d4t0r: how's it hanging?
[04:48:14] *** cybereal has quit IRC
[04:48:21] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS installation.  9 CDs.
[04:48:26] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Peachy, I guess.
[04:48:40] <slava> how much did that cost?
[04:49:09] <pr3d4t0r> slava: A few hundred dollars.
[04:49:11] *** mrsolo has quit IRC
[04:49:22] <slava> pr3d4t0r: debian is free and works better than redhat
[04:49:29] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Not for my purposes.
[04:49:32] <slava> which are?
[04:49:34] <pr3d4t0r> slava: And apt-get sucks.
[04:49:37] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Making money.
[04:49:48] <pr3d4t0r> slava: I don't make money installing Debian.
[04:49:53] <pr3d4t0r> slava: I make money installing this.
[04:49:56] <slava> ok
[04:50:09] <slava> a 13 year old can install linux though, so who ever is paying is is a fool :)
[04:50:46] <pr3d4t0r> slava: A 13-year-old can't manage a secure Linux installation.
[04:51:00] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Especially not one that my client is betting on for their business.
[04:52:58] <Aradorn> hehe
[04:53:12] <cHaoTiCa> aside from the real-worldness, doesn't redhat do some level of support for rhel users?
[04:53:15] <Pi_Wizard> i think this kid i am talking to on ventrilo
[04:53:17] <Pi_Wizard> dude is crazy
[04:53:24] <pr3d4t0r> cHaoTiCa: You pay for it with a subscription.
[04:53:38] <pr3d4t0r> cHaoTiCa: I get access to all kinds of goodies on behalf of my client.  That works great for me.
[04:53:38] <Pi_Wizard> he can read and write anything almost in IA-32 assembly, he programs games, he's talking about operating systems programming
[04:53:39] <slava> disable unneeded services, enable iptables, choose good passwords, keep installing latest updates, done
[04:53:41] <Pi_Wizard> super string theory
[04:53:51] <Pi_Wizard> stuff i am doing in third year university courses
[04:53:53] <Pi_Wizard> lol
[04:54:03] <Pi_Wizard> he is making me feel inadequate in my programming career
[04:54:04] <cHaoTiCa> slava....heh.  you use passwords? :)
[04:54:19] <Aradorn> Pi_Wizard there will always be people like that
[04:54:22] *** Uvizor has quit IRC
[04:54:37] <slava> Pi_Wizard: assembly is out of place in that list, because it is trivial
[04:54:46] *** sockmonk has joined ##java
[04:54:57] <TimmyD01> chaotica: Doesnt my server thread have extend thread and implement runnable?
[04:54:58] <Aradorn> yeah assembly is just- easy
[04:55:10] <Pi_Wizard> not when he programs patches for his own programs with it
[04:55:15] <cHaoTiCa> i believe so
[04:55:17] <slava> now that's jsut foolish
[04:55:23] <Pi_Wizard> :( it makes me sad
[04:55:24] <Pi_Wizard> lol
[04:55:31] <Pi_Wizard> He is insanely smart is the point
[04:55:33] <cHaoTiCa> my point is that you don't need to do both
[04:55:33] <slava> assembly is not for writing programs
[04:55:51] <Aradorn> Pi_Wizard heh i know a guy like that, he learns languages for fun and learns them in a matter of days
[04:56:11] <Pi_Wizard> Yah this kid is 14 and knows more than i do in my third year of university lol he is going far though
[04:56:13] <Aradorn> Pi_Wizard my upper hand is being able to solve the problems and write generic code for him so he can put his knowledge to use
[04:56:18] *** kuonSama has quit IRC
[04:56:30] *** Sancezz has quit IRC
[04:56:34] <TimmyD01> well i just got rid of runnable but i still get my connection refused exception
[04:56:47] <slava> Pi_Wizard: most CS degrees cover only basic stuff
[04:56:55] *** tirunculus_javae has quit IRC
[04:57:14] <slava> i don't think programming is inherently harder than any other persuit. the 14 year old is good at it because he spent time practising it
[04:57:29] <Pi_Wizard> maybe but the super string theory and understanding it
[04:57:32] <Pi_Wizard> takes skill
[04:57:45] <AlphaOmega> there are some real idiots with cs degrees
[04:57:47] <AlphaOmega> lemme tell ya
[04:57:59] <Pi_Wizard> I was like "Know anything on automata?" and he was like "Finite state automatons for game programming, I do that..."
[04:58:06] <Aradorn> AlphaOmega haha isnt that the truth
[04:58:27] <pr3d4t0r> w00t!  7 CDs to go...
[04:58:36] <pr3d4t0r> 6...
[04:58:39] <Aradorn> Pi_Wizard tell him to write the transition functions for l = { 2 * Na(x) = 3 * Nb(x) } then lol
[04:58:41] <AlphaOmega> in my personal experience, everyone with a cs degree is dumb as nails, and anyone w/o a degree is sharp
[04:58:55] <AlphaOmega> but that isnt always the case im sure
[04:59:02] <Pi_Wizard> nah i am not going to berate his intelligence :P
[04:59:12] <cHaoTiCa> TimmyD01.....does the server ever say anything?
[04:59:40] <Aradorn> And knowing one aspect of FSAs dosnt mean you understand the algorithms that support their existance
[04:59:45] <pr3d4t0r> slava: This box is nice.  The case looks like it'd be right at home in Darth Vader's living room.
[04:59:48] <Aradorn> State Minimization etc...
[04:59:58] <slava> pr3d4t0r: i'm looking forward to getting my g5
[05:00:07] <TimmyD01> it talks when running the chat part of it
[05:00:25] <TimmyD01> doesnt do anything when the file transfer attempts to connect
[05:00:38] *** gnostos has joined ##java
[05:00:56] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Sweet.
[05:01:05] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Let's see what Wednesday's announcement is abouit.
[05:01:19] <pr3d4t0r> slava: I understand that OS X 10.4.3 is seeded to developers.
[05:01:23] <slava> pr3d4t0r: probably dual-core g5's. which means the current models will become super-cheap, and the mid-range box will probably be 2.7ghz.
[05:01:48] <pr3d4t0r> slava: There is no such thing as "Apple super-cheap" anything ;)
[05:01:50] *** PenguinOfDoom has left ##java
[05:02:04] <Aradorn> haha
[05:02:32] *** MrPrimate has quit IRC
[05:03:04] <cHaoTiCa> TimmyD01....are the servers tied together?  as in, is the chat server supposed to start the FileIO stuff?
[05:03:19] <TimmyD01> yeah its supposed to
[05:03:46] *** dover has quit IRC
[05:03:58] <cHaoTiCa> where does it do so?
[05:03:58] <TimmyD01> but as soon as my client tries to connect the file transfer socket it freaks out
[05:04:09] <cHaoTiCa> ahh
[05:04:13] <cHaoTiCa> there it be
[05:04:13] *** dover has joined ##java
[05:05:07] <TimmyD01> http://rafb.net/paste/results/c8ChAi44.html <-- client file transfer
[05:05:15] <TimmyD01> freaks out here socket = new Socket(hostIP, PORT);
[05:05:19] <cHaoTiCa> for reference, if you ektend Thread, you don't have to do new Thread(serverThread)  :)
[05:05:33] <cHaoTiCa> extend too
[05:05:35] *** hagabaka has joined ##java
[05:06:41] <rogue-kun{B}> Kon'ban wa minna-san 8)
[05:06:53] *** Aradorn has quit IRC
[05:06:58] <cHaoTiCa> hya :)
[05:07:17] <hagabaka> I'm trying to instal a java program http://jabberwocky.sourceforge.net/, but it uses a "javac" command and I don't have it even though I installed JRE and JDK 1.5
[05:07:32] <hagabaka> on Slackware Linux 10.1
[05:07:57] <MacIver> hagabaka: you need the jdk
[05:08:01] <MacIver> it's in /extra
[05:08:10] <hagabaka> oh
[05:08:16] <rogue-kun{B}> hagabaka: If you have the JDK you have javac, make surre it's in your path
[05:08:19] *** Mott has quit IRC
[05:08:20] * pr3d4t0r goes back to watching "Desperate Housewives ep. 04..."
[05:08:35] *** draven has quit IRC
[05:08:44] <hagabaka> does it provide a script to add them into PATH?
[05:08:59] <cHaoTiCa> TimmyD01.....any particular reason you treat 192.168.0.2 specially?
[05:10:33] <rogue-kun{B}> hagabaka: echo your path to check
[05:11:21] <cHaoTiCa> TimmyD01....a Socket can be inited with a String that has the ip / hostname....you don't have to do your own lookups :)
[05:11:37] *** nirvdrum has quit IRC
[05:11:40] <cHaoTiCa> bah.  off to /msg :)
[05:12:29] *** Mot has joined ##java
[05:12:40] <hagabaka> it's not there, but maybe i need to login again, or maybe the self-extracting binary doesn't do it
[05:13:35] <rogue-kun{B}> haakonn: self extracking binery, or was it a packed manager like rpm? [self extracking binnoer will not set paths]
[05:14:05] <hagabaka> self extracting binary
[05:14:16] <hagabaka> so i just need to add jdk.../bin to PATH?
[05:14:57] <rogue-kun{B}> hagabaka: hai
[05:17:18] <hagabaka> ok, thanks
[05:17:44] *** L----D has quit IRC
[05:18:13] <vinse> god this new job is cracking me up ... almost every class i look at has a comment something like this:
[05:18:39] <vinse> ./** this is a huge hack! fix this ASAP!!!!! */
[05:18:48] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[05:18:55] <MacIver> haakonn: just install the package!
[05:18:56] <vinse> (dated 4 years ago)
[05:19:26] <MacIver> haakonn: http://amdg.no-ip.org/slackware/slackware-10.1/extra/j2sdk-1.5.0_01/
[05:19:33] <vinse> ./** i really shouldnt have done this! what was i thinking!!!! */
[05:19:46] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[05:20:14] <hagabaka> is that the same as jdk?
[05:20:17] <vinse> of course the authors of these comments are long gnoe
[05:20:23] <MacIver> haakonn: yes
[05:20:26] <vinse> s/gnoe/gone
[05:20:26] <rogue-kun{B}> vinse soon and and possible it not alwasy fast ;)
[05:20:27] <hagabaka> ok
[05:20:40] <vinse> as usual rogue-kun{B}, i can only guess at what you're saying
[05:20:46] <vinse> but i think i agree with you
[05:20:50] * pr3d4t0r feeds vinse his meds.
[05:20:53] <hagabaka> haakonn will get mad if you keep addressing me as him though :p
[05:21:03] <cHaoTiCa> vinse.....heh.  their being gone adds so much to the entertainment value, imo :)
[05:21:24] <vinse> cHaoTiCa: yeah ... for you
[05:21:58] <hagabaka> this is much slower to download... :/
[05:22:09] <cHaoTiCa> yeah, for me.  :)
[05:22:34] <cHaoTiCa> but at least you can laugh at them without pissing anyone off :)
[05:23:00] <rogue-kun{B}> hagabaka: true nick compltion mistakes happen 8)
[05:24:22] <vinse> cHaoTiCa: there was one that was almost dailywtf worth ... i'll pastebin it but it's only funny if you know struts
[05:24:25] <cHaoTiCa> TimmyD01....i've stopped looking at this stuff til you reappear.  :)
[05:24:58] <cHaoTiCa> heh.  never played with struts, but i could probably fake it :)
[05:25:45] <Drone> View vinse's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8400
[05:26:06] *** TimmyD01 has quit IRC
[05:26:36] <vinse> cHaoTiCa: the funny part there is, there *is* an easier way to do it, but rather than find out what it is (it's really common and obvious), they just included that comment every time they made one of those unneccessary classes
[05:26:44] <vinse> seriously, there's like a dozen classes just like that
[05:26:47] <vinse> with that same comment
[05:27:04] <vinse> o.O
[05:27:08] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[05:28:06] <vinse> and yes, pr3d4t0r, i'll take my meds now thx
[05:28:26] <vinse> in fact make it a double
[05:28:47] <Geren> can i do if MySocket.accept()==true to see if there's an coming connection?
[05:28:55] <slava> ==true haha
[05:29:03] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[05:29:04] <Geren> i mean i want to start a thread as soon as there's an incoming connection, but if there's not, iw ant to do other things
[05:29:18] <Geren> so i can't keep waiting for the connection and do nothing else
[05:29:26] *** ]Phobos[ has joined ##java
[05:29:34] <Geren> do u know what i'm saying?
[05:30:52] *** xzcvczx has joined ##java
[05:31:03] <cHaoTiCa> i know what you're saying
[05:31:13] <slava> nomshayin?
[05:31:20] <xzcvczx> is there anyway to detect whether a double number has an 'E' in it and if so make it come up in a different colour
[05:31:22] <xzcvczx> ?
[05:31:55] <pr3d4t0r> xzcvczx: doubles don't have "E" in them.
[05:32:00] <cored> lo pr3d4t0r
[05:32:03] <Geren> cHaoTiCa, ok, so i mean i know that the accept() is blocking
[05:32:05] <cored> hello slava
[05:32:07] <Geren> but i dun wan tit ot be blocking
[05:32:08] <pr3d4t0r> xzcvczx: The printed/string representation of a number does.
[05:32:11] <Geren> i want it to listen while i do other things
[05:32:21] <Geren> and as soon as there's something, i let it take over
[05:32:30] <pr3d4t0r> xzcvczx: So use a formatter and/or convert it to a string and then parse it looking for the "E".
[05:32:33] <xzcvczx> pr3d4t0r: 'E' as in exponent
[05:32:53] <xzcvczx> or whatever they call it when it is * 10 to the whatever
[05:33:09] <cHaoTiCa> most uses i've seen of ServerSocket involve either accepting and processing one connection at a time, or having a thread watching the ServerSocket and handing each accept()ed connection off to a worker thread
[05:33:44] <slava> pr3d4t0r: i own j00
[05:34:03] <pr3d4t0r> xzcvczx: I know.
[05:34:09] <xzcvczx> hmmm ok
[05:34:13] <pr3d4t0r> xzcvczx: The double mapping is 64 bits.
[05:34:25] <Geren> cHaoTiCa, in my case, i want my server to be interactinv with the user, and then if there's a connectionn, it goes to the connection mode and stops what it was doing
[05:34:26] <pr3d4t0r> xzcvczx: The "E" is all about how that double is represented for your benefit.
[05:34:34] <Geren> but if there's no connection, it should not hang there and weait
[05:34:36] <Geren> wait*
[05:34:39] <pr3d4t0r> slava: j00 sux0r.
[05:35:01] <slava> xzcvczx: usually 'e' is shown if the double's magnitude is outside a certain interval
[05:35:30] <slava> pr3d4t0r: the good thing about obj-C is no type casts for object types
[05:35:39] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Yup.
[05:35:48] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Very Smalltalk-like, clean.
[05:35:50] <slava> pr3d4t0r: i can pull things out of an NSArray without fooling around with syntax.
[05:35:52] <cHaoTiCa> Geren....sounds like a strange way to do things.  you saying you want the local side to pause whenever a client connects?
[05:36:07] *** cybereal has joined ##java
[05:36:15] <Geren> cHaoTiCa, that's correct
[05:36:15] *** Kal-L has joined ##java
[05:36:23] <pr3d4t0r> Hej!!!!!
[05:36:24] <Geren> like say the user can be playing a tic tac toe game with the server
[05:36:37] <Geren> and if there's a client connection, the server stops the game and goes into a chat mode with the client
[05:36:38] <pr3d4t0r> Nicholas Cage's kid's pretty smart and on IRC!
[05:36:39] <Kal-L> sup
[05:36:45] <Geren> and whent he client goes away, the server resumes the tic tac toe game
[05:36:51] <Kal-L> Nicholas Cage's kid?
[05:36:55] <Geren> where???
[05:36:59] *** dover has quit IRC
[05:37:03] <cHaoTiCa> that doesn't sound very useful.
[05:37:12] <vinse> nicholas cage named his kid Kal-El
[05:37:16] <vinse> IRL
[05:37:20] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[05:37:49] <cybereal> yeah I heard that
[05:37:52] <cybereal> made me laugh so hard
[05:37:54] <Kal-L> lol
[05:38:01] <Kal-L> wow..
[05:38:06] <Kal-L> guess Nicholas Cage is pretty cool after all
[05:38:08] <vinse> worse than whatshername
[05:38:14] <vinse> the blond who married the coldplay guy
[05:38:14] <Kal-L> ha
[05:38:18] <Kal-L> aaah
[05:38:23] <vinse> their kids are named Apple and Orange
[05:38:26] *** hagabaka has quit IRC
[05:38:33] <cybereal> damn hippies
[05:38:35] <sockmonk> wonder if that means Cage expects our planet to blow up within his lifetime....
[05:38:41] <cybereal> heh
[05:39:01] <cHaoTiCa> Geren....how do you intend to keep from hanging while in interactive mode?
[05:39:22] <Geren> cHaoTiCa, what do u mean
[05:39:35] *** codin has joined ##java
[05:39:56] <cHaoTiCa> as in, how do you intend to watch both the local input and the ServerSocket at the same time without blocking?
[05:40:09] *** codin has left ##java
[05:40:14] <cHaoTiCa> and you better not say polling.  :)
[05:40:29] <Cow_woC> select() ?
[05:40:42] <Cow_woC> I suspect you should look up Channels
[05:40:56] <Cow_woC> if you translate both into Channels, I believe there is a way to select() over them
[05:41:02] *** snooplsm has joined ##java
[05:41:04] <snooplsm> what up dawg
[05:41:19] <cybereal> ~bomb snooplsm
[05:41:19] * javabot drops a humongous exploding turd on snooplsm
[05:41:23] <cybereal> dawg turd
[05:41:47] <cHaoTiCa> Cow_woC...there is, if you can turn them into channels
[05:42:17] <cHaoTiCa> Selector.select() :)
[05:42:40] <slava> pr3d4t0r: hey, the finder is pretty cool.
[05:42:57] <Amnesiac> slava, the spotlight?
[05:43:15] <Geren> cHaoTiCa, no, when i'm in chat mode, i ignore local stuff
[05:43:35] <Cow_woC> cHaoTiCa: class Channels will transform *Stream into Channels
[05:44:17] * Cow_woC knows a whole bunch of random Java factoids :)
[05:44:19] <cHaoTiCa> Cow_woC...ServerSocket has a getChannel() as well :)
[05:44:25] <Cow_woC> well, there you go :)
[05:45:09] <Cow_woC> I just recently discovered WeakReferences can be used to store references to the singleton instance inside a singleton class. Such an obvious thing in retrospect, but so darn cool now that I know!
[05:45:23] *** Wufei|nap is now known as Chang_Wufei
[05:45:26] <Cow_woC> Singletons that clean themselves up :)
[05:45:44] <cHaoTiCa> Geren....what do you intend to do, just wait until the next read() returns to check the ServerSocket again?
[05:46:05] <Geren> hold on
[05:47:48] <slava> Cow_woC: what would you use that for?
[05:47:59] <slava> i can't remember the last time i used a weak ref
[05:48:17] <Cow_woC> I just gave you an excellent example: singletons
[05:48:20] <Cow_woC> another one is MVC
[05:48:33] *** Weems has quit IRC
[05:48:37] <Cow_woC> Your View's reference to the Model should be a WeakReference so if the model dies the view shouldn't keep it alive
[05:48:39] <slava> do you have a real-world use case for weakly referenced singletons?
[05:48:45] <Amnesiac> slava, in languages with reference counting based garbage recollection it's useful
[05:48:46] <slava> Cow_woC: no, incorrect
[05:48:52] <Amnesiac> to avoid circular references and memory leaking
[05:48:57] <Amnesiac> in Java I don't know
[05:48:58] <slava> Cow_woC: the view should be cleaned up with event listeners, etc
[05:49:09] <Cow_woC> the point is, you don't need to
[05:49:11] <slava> Cow_woC: at the same time as the model dying
[05:49:24] <slava> Cow_woC: you do if the view is non-trivial
[05:49:31] <Cow_woC> if you use WeakReferences you avoid mistakes where you forget to clean up
[05:49:42] <Cow_woC> anyway, backing up to singletons
[05:49:42] <slava> that's just sloppy coding
[05:49:53] <Cow_woC> no, assuming users will always remember is sloppy
[05:50:04] <Cow_woC> automatic cleanup is always better than manual
[05:50:05] <slava> users? developesr
[05:50:12] <Cow_woC> same difference
[05:50:28] <Cow_woC> back to singleton <cough> ... it would auto-dispose when no references to it remain
[05:50:35] <Cow_woC> which is darn useful
[05:50:42] <slava> give a real-world example
[05:50:56] <Cow_woC> I just did
[05:51:04] <slava> no, a concrete example in a problem domain
[05:51:08] <Cow_woC> <sigh>
[05:51:11] <Cow_woC> ok, I have HibernateHelper
[05:51:11] <slava> a singleton by itself is not useful unless it accomplishes something
[05:51:23] <Cow_woC> it contains a whole slew of utility functions
[05:51:23] *** Talden has quit IRC
[05:51:29] *** Amnesiac has quit IRC
[05:51:30] <vinse> if a singleton falls in the forest ...
[05:51:36] <slava> Cow_woC:  and it has a lot of instance variables?
[05:51:36] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[05:51:37] <Cow_woC> my DAO code references HibernateHelper.
[05:51:58] <slava> Cow_woC: why does it matter if the HibernateHelper is cleaned up or not? does it use a lot of space?
[05:52:00] <vinse> mmm, HibernateHelper
[05:52:08] <Cow_woC> slava: that's besides the point
[05:52:12] <vinse> oh my bad, i was thinkign of Hamburger Helper
[05:52:22] <slava> Cow_woC: does it have any instance variables at all?
[05:52:25] <Cow_woC> yes
[05:52:30] <Pi_Wizard> oh and on a side note about the assembly discussion earlier, i agree it is getting more and more useless, assemblers nowadays turn high level language into code efficient enough that someone needs to -really- know assembly to make it better
[05:52:33] <slava> Cow_woC: why not make them static variables, and make hte methods static?
[05:52:39] <Cow_woC> it has 2-3 Maps I believe
[05:52:56] <slava> Pi_Wizard: my argument is that assembly is mostly only useful when implementing compilers
[05:53:13] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[05:53:15] <Pi_Wizard> or some operating systems principals
[05:53:24] <Pi_Wizard> maybe some microprocessor stuff
[05:53:40] <Pi_Wizard> but still using an assembler still makes it just as efficient
[05:54:01] <slava> as efficient as what?
[05:54:11] <Pi_Wizard> as efficient as someone making it by hand
[05:54:19] <slava> you mean using a compiled langauge?
[05:54:20] <Pi_Wizard> but it's good to know assembly for debugging purposes and just knowing how things work behind the scene somewhat
[05:54:23] <slava> an assembler is what you write assembly in, by hand
[05:54:28] <Cow_woC> slava: because I dislike the idea of having one huge-ass class with "static" everywhere because even once I'm done using them, they won't get garbage collected
[05:54:35] <Cow_woC> which goes directly against what I'm trying to accomplish
[05:54:42] <slava> what are you trying to accomplish?
[05:54:46] <Pi_Wizard> no i mean using a high level language and compiling it, the compilers make it efficient enough that you dont need to direct code in assembly
[05:54:48] <Cow_woC> automatic cleanup
[05:55:05] <Cow_woC> slava ... I feel you are argueing for the same of argueing
[05:55:06] <slava> Cow_woC: weak references are the wrong solution to this
[05:55:11] <slava> Cow_woC: no, i'm not
[05:55:16] <Cow_woC> sure sounds like it to me
[05:55:36] <slava> fine then, write your hibernate helper singleton class, make sure it wire it up with spring and aop too
[05:55:42] <Cow_woC> why is it wrong to use WeakReferences so unused objects are automatically garbage collected?
[05:55:51] <slava> because you should know when objects become unused
[05:55:56] <slava> and write your code accordingly
[05:55:59] <Cow_woC> right
[05:56:05] <Cow_woC> so why do we need a garbage collector at lal?
[05:56:06] <Cow_woC> all?
[05:56:12] <Cow_woC> why not do manual memory management then?
[05:56:27] <Pi_Wizard> but still, you cant argue that knowing what happens behind your code is bad, it makes you a better coder when you know how it works deeper down i think, you can manage and debug better
[05:56:31] <slava> Pi_Wizard: i agree
[05:56:33] <ijoyce> so you don't to worry about when object become unused
[05:56:45] <slava> Cow_woC: because manual memory management breaks abstraction barriers
[05:56:55] <slava> Cow_woC: you can end up with a dangling pointer, or unreachable objects in the heap
[05:57:04] <Cow_woC> give me a break
[05:57:15] <Cow_woC> We want GC because frankly it is less error prone
[05:57:21] <Cow_woC> period
[05:57:31] <Cow_woC> We want WeakReferences for exactly the same reason.
[05:57:32] <slava> GC makes algorithms that deal with short-lived objects easier to implement, in general
[05:57:44] <slava> but long-lived objects, even in GC languages, tend to be managed 'manually'
[05:58:50] <slava> external resources, too
[05:59:06] <slava> GC is not enough to manage memory, you need more idioms than just GC, and relying on GC for cleanup is stupid
[05:59:31] <Cow_woC> hey buddy, I'm not relying on the GC to clean up my file handles here
[05:59:39] <Cow_woC> I'm relying upon it to clean up memory references ...
[05:59:45] <Cow_woC> which makes perfect sense
[05:59:47] <slava> a large hash map is no different from a file handle
[05:59:58] <Cow_woC> absolutely incorrect
[06:00:11] <slava> you should 'close' the hashmap by nulling a reference to it
[06:00:12] <Cow_woC> A large hash map has no file locking associated with it. A file does.
[06:00:26] <Cow_woC> slava: there is absolutely no need to do that with JDK 1.1 and up
[06:00:32] <slava> yes there is
[06:00:34] <Cow_woC> you're thinking is old-school :)
[06:00:39] <Cow_woC> you're -> your
[06:00:42] <slava> here's an example
[06:00:59] <slava> well, its easy to think of dozens of examples
[06:01:07] <slava> assign a large object to an instance variable
[06:01:26] <slava> if you don't null the reference when you're done with it, the instance variable will keep the object hanging around
[06:01:28] <Pi_Wizard> If I wasn't going to use the hashmap i'd null it off but that's me.
[06:01:53] <cHaoTiCa> Pi_Wizard....can't hurt :)
[06:02:02] <Cow_woC> slava: except that my point is that the Map is *supposed* to stay around as long as the surrounding class ... and when the surrounding object is cleaned up, the map goes too
[06:02:08] <slava> Cow_woC: of course
[06:02:14] <Pi_Wizard> Even if computers have so much memory now that it wouldn't matter it's still good principal to do.
[06:02:15] <slava> Cow_woC: but what if the map is *not* supposed to stay around that long?
[06:02:21] <Cow_woC> slava: in your example, you're assuming that the map can be GC independantly of the surrounding object. In my use-case that doesn't happen
[06:02:46] <Cow_woC> Pi_Wizard: in my case, it makes no sense to null the map
[06:02:51] <Cow_woC> as I've already explained
[06:03:13] <Pi_Wizard> Are you using it later on?
[06:03:27] <Cow_woC> I use the Map as long as I use the surrounding object, not less, not more
[06:03:37] <Pi_Wizard> Well as I said just for good coding principal I'd get rid of it.
[06:03:45] <Pi_Wizard> when it's done
[06:03:54] <Cow_woC> WeakReferences will do that for you automatically
[06:03:57] <Cow_woC> without micromanagement
[06:04:11] <Cow_woC> Did you guys even bother reading the Javadoc for WeakReference?
[06:04:22] <slava> read the javadoc?
[06:04:32] <slava> i've implemented garbage collectors that supported weak references.
[06:05:05] <ijoyce> did you implement javas?
[06:05:08] <cHaoTiCa> only problem is that if you end up using something that's weak-referenced when you shouldn't, it won't always fail
[06:05:46] <cHaoTiCa> and when it does, the reason for the failure becomes less obvious
[06:05:50] <vinse> "i eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast!" "you eat shit for breakfast!?!"
[06:06:03] <Cow_woC> cHaoTiCa: what do you mean?
[06:06:03] <slava> Cow_woC: its worth noting that weak references have a relatively high overhead
[06:06:07] <slava> Cow_woC: along with finalizers
[06:06:14] <Cow_woC> cHaoTiCa: if it's been GC, your reference will be null
[06:06:29] <Cow_woC> slava: now you're trying to come up with other excuses :)
[06:06:50] <slava> Cow_woC: i see that my original claim, that they're mostly unnecessary and a sign of sloppy coding, has not been refuted
[06:06:54] <Cow_woC> but whatever, I'm fine with it, even if you're right
[06:06:54] <cHaoTiCa> Cow_woC....you check every time you use a WeakReference to see if it's null?
[06:07:22] <Cow_woC> ease of use trumps overhead for me anyway... the JDK is being optimized with every new release. Nowadays a lot of this stuff is dirt cheap whereas it used to be expensive before
[06:07:29] *** Nerve has quit IRC
[06:07:42] <Cow_woC> cHaoTiCa: the correct approach is myRef.get() into a strong reference, then check that for null, yes
[06:07:44] <slava> weak references have an overhead which cannot be eliminated
[06:07:58] *** Azrael_- has joined ##java
[06:08:00] <cHaoTiCa> so....uhh....where's the ease of use? :)
[06:08:12] <slava> the GC has to keep them in a separate list and scan them after a GC
[06:08:35] <slava> with a copying GC you can use a coloring strategy to avoid this scan but java does not use copying, it uses mark and sweep
[06:09:29] <Cow_woC> cHaoTiCa: the ease of use is that you only do this once per getter, you can use your singleton from anywhere across your huge-ass application, and it'll GC automatically
[06:09:34] <Cow_woC> cHaoTiCa: it's well-worth it
[06:09:59] <slava> i try not to write huge-ass applications; its a sign of bad understanding
[06:10:04] <Cow_woC> slava: it uses copying or scan and sweep depending on which GC is used ... and with Java there are like 5-6 different implementations already
[06:10:09] <cHaoTiCa> if you say so.  personally, i don't like the idea of my singletons dying anyway.  :)
[06:10:13] <slava> Cow_woC: they're all mark and sweep
[06:10:22] <Cow_woC> slava: uh... so why am I talking to you then?
[06:10:23] <slava> Cow_woC: it uses copying for the nursery but mark and sweep for older generations
[06:10:34] <Cow_woC> if you live in embedded dev space, obviously WeakReferences are bad news
[06:10:45] <Cow_woC> I'm not talking embedded ... hence I'm not using that mentality
[06:11:09] <slava> so you write complex code on purpose?
[06:11:19] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[06:11:28] <Cow_woC> and my point wasn't a "huge app app" but rather that you could reference your singleton in your application, spread like butter, and not have to micromanage where it gets created and destroyed
[06:11:39] * Cow_woC decides to end this conversatio
[06:11:56] <Cow_woC> I keep on forgetting that with slava you're never going to win
[06:12:05] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[06:12:07] <Cow_woC> slava: have you ever admitted you're wrong? :)
[06:12:29] <slava> i'm still waiting for reasons to use weak references that are not excuses for sloppy thinking
[06:12:40] <slava> with GC, the reason is that certain algorithms are almost impossible to implement without GC
[06:13:28] <cHaoTiCa> nothing is impossible, or even almost impossible, without gc.  it just gets more tedious.  :)
[06:13:52] <vinse> anything is walking distance, if you have the time
[06:14:14] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[06:14:14] *** BlurredWe has quit IRC
[06:14:20] *** Geren has quit IRC
[06:14:21] <slava> cHaoTiCa: notice how any non-trivial c++ program implements a GC, or half-ass refcounting
[06:15:07] <cHaoTiCa> that's because it simplifies things
[06:15:16] <cHaoTiCa> not because gc is essential
[06:15:23] <slava> it pretty much is
[06:15:53] *** cored has quit IRC
[06:16:12] *** hatOFF has joined ##java
[06:17:48] <cHaoTiCa> it's not.  there is nothing that can't be done with gc that can't be done without it.  the difference is what the programmer (and the libraries) have to worry about.
[06:18:12] <Cow_woC> slava: water is wet! wet I tell you!
[06:18:19] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[06:18:34] <slava> cHaoTiCa: simulating GC does not count as doing without it
[06:18:57] <slava> cHaoTiCa: reference counts are GC, albeit a poor form
[06:19:11] <snooplsm> any free hosts that have servlet capabilities
[06:19:41] <ijoyce> snooplsm, localhost ;)
[06:20:03] <snooplsm> hah
[06:20:27] <cHaoTiCa> i'm not even talking about "simulating" gc.  though i'd argue that keeping track of one's own objects != letting a gc keep track of it.  :)
[06:20:42] *** CowwoC has joined ##java
[06:20:43] <snooplsm> i have a dilemma
[06:21:03] <snooplsm> how hard is it to have a java app communicate with a servlet
[06:21:34] <cHaoTiCa> communicate how?
[06:21:55] * snooplsm puts foot in mouth
[06:22:09] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[06:22:31] <snooplsm> i'm looking for a way to send data from my java app to my server.
[06:22:37] <cybereal> snooplsm: POST
[06:22:52] <snooplsm> can you post an image?
[06:22:54] <cybereal> of courwse
[06:22:55] <cybereal> er course
[06:22:58] <cHaoTiCa> sure
[06:23:07] <cybereal> you can post anything that you can get
[06:23:07] <snooplsm> can you track the progress of the post?  seconds till finsih?
[06:23:21] <cybereal> snooplsm: from the uploader side, you know how much is left
[06:23:23] <cHaoTiCa> .....
[06:23:41] <snooplsm> cool
[06:24:01] <cybereal> 'seconds til finish' is just something you calculate based on average time for the parts already sent
[06:24:18] *** vman_____ has joined ##java
[06:24:25] <snooplsm> indeed, i just need to design this gui better, and catch errors
[06:24:35] <snooplsm> then i can work on the post method
[06:25:15] <snooplsm> in swing i tried the gtk+ look, didn't work
[06:25:27] *** L----D has joined ##java
[06:25:29] <vman_____> when using the recieve method in a non-blocking DatagramChannel object, if the recieve method returns correctly, where can i find out the length of the actual data that was passed into the ByteBuffer?
[06:26:26] <ijoyce> I need to generate some html files and email them as attachments from within a servlet. what's a good way to go about this? what should I use to do the templating?
[06:26:37] <ijoyce> any thoughts?
[06:26:45] <slava> velocity and javax.mail
[06:27:04] <CowwoC> my DNS is down, can someone please remind me what happens if you have try{}catch{}finally{}? Is the finally executed *after* the catch block is? or before?
[06:27:07] <CowwoC> I suspect after
[06:27:25] <ijoyce> CowwoC, after
[06:27:34] <CowwoC> thank you
[06:28:03] <ijoyce> slava, that's what i had had in mind so far...
[06:28:26] <snooplsm> is imageshack profitable?
[06:29:16] <vman_____> anyone?
[06:30:07] <snooplsm> too advanced for me vman
[06:30:14] <CowwoC> vman_____: can't you remember the length before and compare to the length after?
[06:30:24] <slava> vman_____: surely the method returns the length
[06:30:41] <cHaoTiCa> slava....it doesn't.  i checked.  :)
[06:31:00] <slava> i find nio much more convoluted than unix APIs for non-blocking I/O
[06:31:11] <cHaoTiCa> yup
[06:31:16] <cHaoTiCa> nio annoys me
[06:31:23] <vman_____> well
[06:31:25] <vman_____> theres position
[06:31:28] <CowwoC> nio is nice
[06:31:29] <vman_____> i just saw that
[06:31:38] <vman_____> CowwoC: indeed it is.
[06:31:42] <slava> CowwoC: its too complicated
[06:31:47] * CowwoC shrugs
[06:32:02] <CowwoC> io and nio both could be reworked to be nicer, to be sure, but it's very decent as is
[06:32:05] <cHaoTiCa> nio is nice, if you can get over the strangeness of java's way compared to others'
[06:32:09] *** elvin|coder has joined ##java
[06:32:26] <CowwoC> cHaoTiCa: I think that's mainly it
[06:32:27] <slava> i don't see why it has to be 234238x more complex than even a low-level procedural API in Unix
[06:32:40] <CowwoC> slava: because Java has to support more than just Unix
[06:32:49] <CowwoC> and Java isn't procedural
[06:32:57] <slava> OOP is supposed to simplify things, not make them harder
[06:33:03] <CowwoC> slava: depends
[06:33:08] <slava> eh?
[06:33:12] <CowwoC> I've seen rare cases where the opposite was true
[06:33:19] <slava> in those cases, OOP should not be used
[06:33:25] <CowwoC> right, but again, Java has no such option
[06:33:39] <cHaoTiCa> then java shouldn't be used.  :)
[06:33:41] <CowwoC> (and frankly I prefer it the way it is)
[06:34:15] <cHaoTiCa> and btw, java does have that option, in the form of public static methods
[06:34:37] <elvin|coder> good day. i've read yesterday that one of the ways to detect presence of a specific wifi network connection is to try to connect to a sertain page specific for that network. is this a standart way of detecting wifi network presence or are there other ways?
[06:34:58] <elvin|coder> i mean, with mobile devices like pocket pc
[06:35:21] <CowwoC> public static methods is uuuuuuuuugly in my book
[06:35:26] <Pi_Wizard> slava... lets say i wanted to set the classpath for junit.jar how would i do it in windows?
[06:35:28] <CowwoC> I much prefer creating a singleton with non-static methods
[06:35:33] <cHaoTiCa> cause you like oop :)
[06:35:39] <CowwoC> right
[06:35:46] <slava> CowwoC: why are they ugly?
[06:35:52] <CowwoC> slava: personal preference
[06:35:53] <slava> you think the Math class is ugly?
[06:36:15] *** ]Phobos[ has quit IRC
[06:36:19] <cHaoTiCa> but the point is that if you want to code procedurally, you can do so -- albeit inside a class :)
[06:36:26] <CowwoC> slava: I would have preferred if a lot of the Java APIs which make use of many "public static " were refactored to be more like Toolkit
[06:36:37] <slava> Math.getMath().sin(x) ?
[06:36:44] <cHaoTiCa> ick.
[06:36:46] <cybereal> If a method on an object requires no information that it isn't passed to do its job, (i.e. doesn't need the internet state of the object or something) you may as well make it static
[06:37:00] <CowwoC> slava: you getMath() once
[06:37:03] <slava> the correct solution is x.sin()
[06:37:20] <cybereal> ~slava++
[06:37:21] <javabot> slava has a karma level of 116, cybereal
[06:37:32] <CowwoC> except sin() isn't defined for all primitives
[06:37:37] <CowwoC> what would boolean.sin() be?
[06:37:46] <slava> CowwoC: the correct solution would be not to have primiitves, and define sin() for numbers.
[06:37:55] <slava> see smalltalk for how its done
[06:38:00] *** Cow_woC has quit IRC
[06:38:00] <CowwoC> damnit, you got me doing it again
[06:38:03] * CowwoC goes back to work
[06:38:10] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[06:38:13] *** CowwoC is now known as Cow_woC
[06:38:25] *** Chmmr has joined ##java
[06:38:32] <cHaoTiCa> ~slava++
[06:38:33] <javabot> slava has a karma level of 117, cHaoTiCa
[06:38:35] <slava> unnecessary keystrokes = =bad
[06:39:29] <slava> Math.getMathFactory().lookupMathObjectWithSOAP().getInstance().sin(x)
[06:39:45] <cybereal> Heh
[06:40:17] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[06:41:26] <Cow_woC> hmm
[06:41:38] <Cow_woC> maybe if I keep on incrementing slava's karma, it'll overflow into its proper value
[06:42:14] <Cow_woC> gawd, my head hurts :P
[06:42:16] <cHaoTiCa> heh.  just do it about 4 billion times' and it might work :)
[06:42:17] <Cow_woC> anyway, I'm off to bed
[06:42:22] <Kal-L> what is no such method error?
[06:42:38] <cHaoTiCa> Kal-L....duh.
[06:43:06] *** shadowrider has left ##java
[06:43:28] <cHaoTiCa> the error couldn't be much more self-explanatory :)
[06:43:33] <Kal-L> lol
[06:43:42] <mohadib> man , i just had to push start my car ... it took 4 trys
[06:43:51] * mohadib is beat
[06:44:23] <Kal-L> damn did not know that
[06:44:34] <Kal-L> well i know what it mean but i couldn't understand why i was getting it
[06:45:11] <slava> hi mohadib
[06:45:18] <mohadib> howdy slava
[06:45:22] <mohadib> how you doing?
[06:45:34] <cHaoTiCa> you usually see that error when you're trying to run an app with no main()
[06:45:34] <slava> finishing some work stuff so i can get back to compiler hacking
[06:45:39] <mohadib> nice
[06:46:06] <mohadib> slava: i got a preliminary jon interview tommorw ... if i get it i will literaly double my income :)
[06:46:06] <cHaoTiCa> java tends to catch other unfound methods while you compile
[06:46:17] <mohadib> job
[06:47:18] <mohadib> so i spen 3 fucking hours at the mall waiting to get my hair cut
[06:47:30] <slava> john interview eh
[06:47:33] <mohadib> i just got back ... fucking insane ... and then the push starting of my car....
[06:47:36] <mohadib> slava: heh
[06:47:36] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[06:47:48] <mohadib> yes , need a few new johns for teh hoes
[06:48:14] <ijoyce> you have to interview to get a hooker these days? sheesh
[06:48:20] <mohadib> heh
[06:48:31] *** vinse has quit IRC
[06:49:24] <mohadib> ijoyce: its the oldest trade in the world
[06:49:42] <mohadib> of course you need refrences and an interview to get their services
[06:50:16] <ijoyce> must be a hell of a hooker
[06:50:41] <ijoyce> i'm used to crack whotes and cripples
[06:50:47] <mohadib> heh
[06:50:49] <ijoyce> whores
[06:50:52] <mohadib> ijoyce: low budget ay
[06:51:07] <ijoyce> and disposable
[06:51:12] <ijoyce> ;)
[06:51:17] <mohadib> well , thats the kind of women slava be pimpin' ... so maybe give him a shout
[06:51:24] <mohadib> ijoyce: HAHAHA ... you must be a pig ;)
[06:51:47] <slava> ~mohadib
[06:51:47] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'mohadib_' might be appropriate:
[06:51:49] <javabot> slava, mohadib_ is the Son of dibblego
[06:51:55] <slava> oh what?
[06:52:04] <mohadib> slava: you know how cheeser is
[06:52:07] <slava> ~mohadib is a playa pimpin' dem hoez and blinging with his gold teef and 22" rimz
[06:52:08] <javabot> Okay, slava.
[06:52:08] <mohadib> he removed the one for mohadib
[06:52:17] <mohadib> lol slava
[06:52:18] <ijoyce> if i can't get a bj for the cost of the change in my console, she's to fancy for me
[06:52:24] <mohadib> lol
[06:52:37] <mohadib> slava: if i get this job... im getting an audi
[06:52:40] <mohadib> for real
[06:52:44] <mohadib> with 20s baby
[06:52:56] <slava> comin' up in the world
[06:53:02] <mohadib> trying
[06:53:03] <mohadib> ;)
[06:53:10] <ijoyce> mohadib, then you're quickly back to having no money
[06:53:16] <mohadib> heh
[06:53:31] <mohadib> but ill have an audi .. and the whoes will line up to touch my 20s
[06:53:40] <mohadib> so ... i wont need money anymore
[06:54:14] <ijoyce> apparently you haven't been around hoes much...
[06:54:15] <mohadib> teef
[06:54:16] <mohadib> heh
[06:54:24] <mohadib> ijoyce: in passing
[06:54:25] <mohadib> :p
[06:54:43] <mohadib> who new a fscking honda weighed so much!
[06:55:14] <cybereal> mohadib: wimp
[06:55:24] <cybereal> mohadib: maybe you forgot to take off the parking brake? :)
[06:55:32] <mohadib> i even have AAA .... but it would take them an hour to get to m,y locastion
[06:55:35] * cybereal had a car with electrical problems, had to push start it frequently
[06:56:01] <mohadib> cybereal: hehe ... well , the first time i tried... the key was not in the on postion :\
[06:56:06] <cybereal> hah
[06:56:15] <mohadib> i felt like fucking moron
[06:56:24] <Pi_Wizard> erg fuck you junit
[06:56:33] <cybereal> one time mine kept dying, I ended up pushing the thing down like 3 different roads before I got it to stay running
[06:56:35] <cybereal> that day sucked
[06:56:42] <mohadib> cybereal: HAHAHAHA
[06:56:44] <mohadib> heh
[06:56:45] <mohadib> i bet
[06:56:56] <mohadib> was it like in the summer and 98 degeress?
[06:56:58] <cybereal> I got good at it though
[06:57:02] <mohadib> heh
[06:57:18] <cybereal> it was Fall so no, then the next week I finally figured out what was wrong and never had to deal with that crap again
[06:57:28] <mohadib> i just left my my lights on while i waited for *3 HOURS* to get my hair cut
[06:57:31] <mohadib> 3 HOURS
[06:57:35] <cybereal> that's a long time
[06:57:40] <cybereal> I won't wait that long
[06:57:44] <mohadib> yes , i would have left
[06:57:51] <cybereal> There are too many places to get it done around here
[06:57:52] <mohadib> but... i got the stupid interview tomorrow
[06:58:12] <mohadib> i had not cut my hair in almost a year ... it was a perfect rats nest :\
[06:58:24] <L----D> any recommend RSS resource about Java
[06:58:26] <mohadib> cybereal: its hard to get a cut in santa fe after 7
[06:58:36] <mohadib> its hard to get anything in santa fe after 9
[06:58:40] <mohadib> damn near impossible
[06:58:53] <cybereal> mohadib: is that because most people there can't count that high? so they get confused and go home?
[06:58:54] <cybereal> :)
[06:59:01] <mohadib> yep
[06:59:11] <cybereal> NM is yet again the "dumbest state" by standardized testing.  Amusing.
[06:59:24] <mohadib> i have never had service even close to as bad as what i recieve in New Mexico on a daily basis
[06:59:25] <cybereal> Not that it's saying much, considering how dumb most of the US is
[06:59:32] <mohadib> heh
[06:59:32] <ijoyce> cybereal, someone has to come in last...
[06:59:39] <mohadib> NM people are pretty stupid
[07:00:08] <ijoyce> people are pretty stupid
[07:00:09] <mohadib> i have never seen so many chumps with a huge morgae for some masive gas gusling american cars that will be broke down in 10 nyears
[07:00:24] <cybereal> Yeah I don't get that
[07:00:28] <mohadib> total morons here ... andf they all have bush stickers on there new cars
[07:00:37] <cybereal> People who drive hummers... they MAYBE get 5mpg... that's just insane
[07:00:42] <mohadib> yep
[07:00:56] <mohadib> just so they can take their kid to soccer practice and get groceries
[07:01:01] <mohadib> i see it all the time here
[07:01:04] <cybereal> And the genius americans... we finally get a big gas price bump so how do we respond? DRIVE MORE!~~~
[07:01:14] <mohadib> hahaha
[07:01:19] <mohadib> buy bigger cars
[07:01:32] <cybereal> Dude, I could take 3 kids to "soccer practice" and get groceries in my Subaru Impreza Outback edition
[07:01:39] <cybereal> And I get 25-30mpg
[07:01:39] <mohadib> yeo
[07:01:52] <cybereal> Plus my car handles 10 times better than theirs
[07:01:58] <mohadib> cybereal: but .... you could have a sparkiling whit hummer!
[07:02:07] <mohadib> white hummers should be ilegal
[07:02:11] *** LearningJava has quit IRC
[07:02:15] <cybereal> Hummer wouldn't fit in my covered parking spot
[07:02:36] <cHaoTiCa> hummers in general should be illegal imo :)
[07:02:40] <cybereal> I agree
[07:02:46] <cybereal> Absolutely no reason to own one
[07:02:46] <mohadib> yep
[07:02:48] <rogue-kun{B}> Bah Gve me a Hybird Wrangler 8) with a Good heater 8)
[07:02:49] <cybereal> they should require a CDL
[07:03:10] <mohadib> i want to good public transporation
[07:03:21] <cybereal> mohadib: here here!
[07:03:30] <cybereal> I love riding trains/busses to work, that way I can relax the whole way
[07:03:35] <mohadib> Boulder , Co has the best public transpertation i have ever used... short of new york
[07:03:36] <cybereal> listen to my tunes or read/catch up on work
[07:03:39] <cybereal> I hate commuting
[07:03:40] <mohadib> yep
[07:03:56] <mohadib> and fend off the werido trying to strike up a converstion :p
[07:04:03] <mohadib> weirdo?
[07:04:05] <cybereal> I live 6.5 mi. drive from my office and to take busses it takes 2 transfers and over 1 hour to get there!
[07:04:12] <mohadib> HAHAHA
[07:04:13] <mohadib> damn
[07:04:18] <rogue-kun{B}> mohadib lol your tellimg me, to get from my place to Campus i would need to cat a bus, switch to a trian, the switch to a bus, the switch to another buss to arve at campus......or I can drive  in a car for 20 mins 8)
[07:04:19] <cybereal> downtown the busses are great
[07:04:19] <cHaoTiCa> while we're making laws....anyone who thought up making suvs that were yellow with grey trim needs to be shot
[07:04:27] <cybereal> but I'm just a few miles outside of "downtown" and it's crap here
[07:04:33] <slava> you pussies need to stop living in the suburbs
[07:04:44] <mohadib> cHaoTiCa: for president
[07:04:51] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[07:04:54] <mohadib> slava: i dont
[07:04:59] <mohadib> i libe in the desert
[07:05:04] <mohadib> with yuppies :\
[07:05:06] <mohadib> and locals
[07:05:07] <slava> mohadib: we all know you live in the ghetto
[07:05:10] <mohadib> i dont know who is worse
[07:05:11] <cybereal> I don't live in the burbs either, pub trans. just blows in this area since everybody has like 4 cars
[07:05:14] <mohadib> slava: haha
[07:05:25] <mohadib> slava: i gots ta be with mua people
[07:05:41] <cHaoTiCa> bah.
[07:05:47] <cHaoTiCa> i sleep now.
[07:05:51] <mohadib> night
[07:06:00] *** epswing has joined ##java
[07:06:03] *** cHaoTiCa is now known as cHao_sl33pz
[07:06:04] * rogue-kun{B} looks like he going to riding a bike to campuse this winter the way gas priaces are
[07:06:06] *** Chang_Wufei is now known as Wufei|food
[07:06:12] <mohadib> heh
[07:06:28] <mohadib> i would ride a bike to work if it were closer
[07:06:41] <mohadib> i have a 30 minute drive @ 90mph
[07:06:43] <slava> it takes me 15 minutes to bike downtown
[07:06:45] <cybereal> It's way too dangerous to be anywhere near a road on a bike here in the winter.  Too much snow and ice to cause cars to slide into you and squash you.  Otherwise I'd be there.
[07:06:48] <mohadib> slava: nice
[07:06:53] <rogue-kun{B}> 20 mins bt car in traffis I guest make it will be an hours Bike ride
[07:07:05] <slava> mohadib: 8 minutes by car
[07:07:10] <rogue-kun{B}> cybereal: snow and ice here too
[07:07:48] <mohadib> slava: must be nice , i had that in boulder , I could catch a bus from my front door almost and go anywhere ... and the bus ran every 15 minutes :)
[07:07:55] <mohadib> the Hop,Skip and The Jump :)
[07:07:56] <rogue-kun{B}> Just can afford 2 roud trips each day [I don't drive and my so i have to be droped off and picked up each day]
[07:08:00] <slava> mohadib: bus runs every 5 minutes here
[07:08:07] *** kinabalu has joined ##java
[07:08:08] <mohadib> nice
[07:08:11] <cybereal> slava: lucky
[07:08:30] <epswing> i'm creating a java tetris game (yes, for school)
[07:08:30] <epswing> i'm thinking of using a JTable inside a JFrame to display the grid.  comments suggestions?  i'd need to be changing the backround colour of specific cells (on a given time interval of course)
[07:08:54] <cybereal> epswing: why don't you just draw to a canvas?
[07:09:12] <cybereal> tetris is easy because you never have overlapping sprites
[07:09:15] <slava> swing is not good for this type of stuff
[07:09:27] <slava> my ui toolkit lets you use layout managers and tables to draw game grids :)
[07:09:45] <epswing> draw to a canvas you say...
[07:09:56] <mohadib> ~tell epswing about nio
[07:09:56] <javabot> epswing, nio is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/nio/ and http://grexengine.com/sections/people/adam/nio/Converting_Tetris_from_io_to_NIO.html and http://gee.cs.oswego.edu/dl/cpjslides/nio.pdf
[07:10:00] <rogue-kun{B}> epswing: ewww, I would use Abslute layoput and use X, Y
[07:10:01] <mohadib> tetris ^^
[07:11:53] <mohadib> id use java2d
[07:12:14] <mohadib> does not sound like an easy thing to do with any layout manager
[07:12:38] <cHao_sl33pz> no built-in one, anyway :)
[07:12:42] <cHao_sl33pz> oh
[07:12:46] <cHao_sl33pz> forgot
[07:12:50] <cHao_sl33pz> i'm sleeping
[07:13:33] <Honk^away> you could try writing tetris in a gridlayout *g*
[07:13:46] <epswing> yeah i saw gridlayout...
[07:13:52] <epswing> but what goes in the cells?
[07:14:00] <mohadib> thats the problem
[07:14:03] <cybereal> prisoners
[07:14:06] <epswing> or can those cells have background colours, hmm
[07:14:11] <mohadib> gbl and gridlayout dont do well with empty cells
[07:14:27] <slava> mohadib: stop wasting your time with these fools and go pimp some hoes
[07:14:29] <cybereal> epswing: best bet is just draw the stuff yourself
[07:14:35] <Honk^away> mohadib: who said there are empty cells?
[07:14:36] <mohadib> and you would have to relkayout everthing like once a second
[07:14:45] <mohadib> slava: haha
[07:14:47] <Honk^away> mohadib: huh?
[07:14:52] <Honk^away> you'd fill it with something
[07:14:59] <Honk^away> and just change the color of that something ;)
[07:15:01] <epswing> i'm thinking of storing the current game state in just a 2d int array, with 0 being "no colour", 1 being red, 2 being green, etc, etc, so i can just read from this 2d int array when necessary (yes, pretty often)
[07:15:10] <cybereal> mohadib: will help you with this HoeBagLayout
[07:15:19] <mohadib> hahaha
[07:15:26] <cHao_sl33pz> you'd put in "block" components or something, which have a state
[07:15:34] <mohadib> Honk^away: show me an example of GBL with *empty* cells
[07:15:34] <cHao_sl33pz> bah
[07:15:40] *** cHao_sl33pz is now known as cHaoTiCa
[07:15:48] <Honk^away> mohadib: i said gridlayout
[07:15:54] <ijoyce> hmm, velocity appears much nicer than jsp
[07:16:00] <mohadib> i dunno about gridlayout
[07:16:03] <Honk^away> ..
[07:16:05] <ijoyce> why was i not aware of this?
[07:16:10] <Honk^away> ~javadoc gridlayout
[07:16:10] <javabot> Honk^away, please see java.awt.GridLayout: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/awt/GridLayout.html
[07:16:29] <epswing> this point of this is secondary to my actual project, which is creating an agent that will actually *play* tetris  (yay A.I. class, etc)
[07:16:33] <slava> ijoyce: because you were too busy watching mohadib bounce with his hoes
[07:16:43] <mohadib> Honk^away: event still , this is not a job for a lyout mamanger ... this is a java2d job , imho
[07:16:46] <cHaoTiCa> epswing.....heh
[07:16:59] <mohadib> heheh
[07:17:06] <ijoyce> slava, i do like hoes...
[07:17:09] <Honk^away> mohadib: mhh.. tetris would work rather nicely with this approach though
[07:17:14] <slava> mohadib: so what's your secret
[07:17:21] <slava> mohadib: what's your pimp juice
[07:17:29] <mohadib> Honk^away: ok , relayout a whole bunch of shit every second
[07:17:32] <mohadib> sounds fast
[07:17:36] <Honk^away> mohadib: why?
[07:17:40] <Honk^away> you wouldnt add or remove anything
[07:17:53] <Honk^away> and changing the color does not require any relayout
[07:17:53] <epswing> re-drawing the grid is going to be happening pretty often, yeah...
[07:17:56] <mohadib> slHer...
[07:18:01] <mohadib> Honk^away: ?
[07:18:17] <Honk^away> mohadib: ! :)
[07:18:25] <mohadib> slava: my pimp juice is Acqua Di Gio by Armani
[07:18:42] <slava> mohadib: mine is old english 800 40oz
[07:18:45] <mohadib> them high class hoes love it ... i use the berberry on the hood rats
[07:18:52] <mohadib> slava: HAHAHHA
[07:19:34] <epswing> so say i use gridlayout, what would i stick in all these cells?
[07:19:36] <mohadib> Honk^away: you cant layout just parts of the grids
[07:19:53] <slava> mohadib: ima relayout yo' face if you keep trippin' foo'
[07:19:54] <cHaoTiCa> mohadib.....you'd fill the grid with Components that know how to be either blocks or empty spaces, and from that point on just manipulate the states of the components
[07:20:00] <cHaoTiCa> no relayout necessary
[07:20:06] <mohadib> slava: hahaha , oh shit
[07:20:22] <mohadib> cHaoTiCa: huh ... word
[07:20:30] <mohadib> you guys are smart
[07:20:36] <mohadib> its late ... and im not
[07:20:37] <epswing> cHaoTiCa: alright..Components eh?
[07:20:50] <rogue-kun{B}> epswing: JPanels
[07:21:04] <epswing> haha, 200 JPanels
[07:21:15] <epswing> (original tetris is 20 rows by 10 cols)
[07:21:20] <rogue-kun{B}> yep and toggle ther colours
[07:21:20] <mohadib> jlables
[07:21:23] <mohadib> even better
[07:21:31] <cHaoTiCa> didn't say it was efficient :)
[07:21:45] <mohadib> jlabels are transparent by default
[07:22:00] <epswing> i thought about labels but...can i arrange them nicely in the gridlayout so they're squares?
[07:22:08] <mohadib> er ectually
[07:22:14] <mohadib> jlabels would not be goosd
[07:22:15] <Honk^away> mohadib: why bother doing a relayout at all?
[07:22:16] <mohadib> good
[07:22:23] <mohadib> Honk^away: im up to speed now
[07:22:29] <mohadib> ;)
[07:22:30] <Honk^away> good ;)
[07:22:32] <mohadib> heh
[07:22:58] <epswing> mohadib: what's wrong with jlabels
[07:23:09] <mohadib> epswing: you cant change the color
[07:23:13] <mohadib> they are transparent
[07:23:28] <cHaoTiCa> efficiency == drawing the game grid yourself :)
[07:23:38] <slava> with opengl!
[07:23:44] <mohadib> in c
[07:23:49] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[07:23:49] <epswing> cHaoTiCa: ok, like you were mentioning before
[07:23:52] <epswing> drawing a canvas
[07:24:02] <mohadib> and pimp some math
[07:24:03] <cHaoTiCa> was that me? :)
[07:24:08] <cybereal> that was me
[07:24:32] <cHaoTiCa> thought so
[07:24:51] <cHaoTiCa> i didn't remember talking about a canvas :)
[07:24:59] <epswing> oh
[07:25:34] <mohadib> no need to go heavyweight :p
[07:26:12] <rogue-kun{B}> mohadib: Bling Bling Math ;)
[07:26:19] <slava> that's mohadib area
[07:26:25] <mohadib> hehe
[07:26:28] <slava> he's counting his cheddar and measuring his rims
[07:26:30] <slava> advanced math
[07:26:34] <mohadib> hahahah
[07:26:55] <mohadib> if you dont know where you paper stands you should not be here
[07:27:58] <mohadib> slava: so do all the compsci wannabes ask you for your autograph?
[07:27:59] <rogue-kun{B}> public class Bling_Bling extens Math { }
[07:28:27] <slava> mohadib: i got hoes lining up so i can sign their tits
[07:28:32] <mohadib> hahah
[07:28:46] <mohadib> slava: do you have factor groupies at school?
[07:28:57] <slava> mohadib: i don't associate with CS students at school
[07:29:16] <slava> mohadib: i got a crew of liberal arts peeps who like to get wasted
[07:29:22] <mohadib> jahahha
[07:29:26] <Honk^away> http://nopaste.php-q.net/166188 <-- prove of concept :P
[07:29:28] <mohadib> the cs chumps to square?
[07:29:52] <mohadib> too even
[07:30:33] * rogue-kun{B} onder how allname did with sensei
[07:30:34] <mohadib> why call stuff final
[07:30:56] <mohadib> does it offer some optimization?
[07:30:59] <Honk^away> no
[07:31:13] <Honk^away> but you cant access it from inner classes otherwise :P
[07:31:14] <mohadib> i can understand if you really dont want a ref reassigned
[07:31:17] <rogue-kun{B}> final stuff it just a safty prcaustion
[07:31:18] <mohadib> oh
[07:31:20] <mohadib> ahh
[07:31:28] <mohadib> dibbl does that a lot
[07:31:39] <mohadib> i thought maybe you where of the same school
[07:31:55] <slava> mohadib: in lisp we use let most of the time (introducing new bindings) instead of setq (modifying bindings), its less error-prone
[07:32:02] <slava> mohadib: 'final' in java is the same idea
[07:32:11] *** dibblego has joined ##java
[07:32:16] <slava> speak of the devil
[07:32:21] <dibblego> what I do?
[07:32:25] <mohadib> heh
[07:32:37] <slava> somebody mentioned final variables
[07:32:44] <dibblego> no such thing
[07:32:48] <mohadib> heh
[07:32:51] <dibblego> unless you refer to the JLS
[07:32:58] <rogue-kun{B}> dibblego: nothing just some fouwl slughtered in your name
[07:33:03] <dibblego> I think it even mentions variable constants
[07:33:26] <slava> hehe
[07:33:31] <cybereal> "variable constants" ... sweet
[07:33:46] *** Wufei|food is now known as Wufei|sleep
[07:33:55] <dibblego> constant variables maybe, I forget
[07:34:04] <dibblego> amusing whatever the case
[07:34:10] * mohadib nods
[07:34:20] <mohadib> sagely :p
[07:35:19] <Kal-L> hmm...12:34 and the room is still live
[07:35:29] <dibblego> yeah it closes at 1:00 your local time
[07:35:34] <Kal-L> hehe
[07:35:42] <rogue-kun{B}> Kal-L: insomic coders anounimusd meets here ;)
[07:35:50] <mohadib> heh
[07:35:55] <mohadib> wow , rogue-kun{B} :)
[07:35:59] <slava> or in mohadib's case, pimps making the late night round
[07:36:03] <Kal-L> yea, i'm writing a diary for my girl friends daughter birthday
[07:36:11] <mohadib> you make me feel much better about my spelling abilites :p
[07:36:16] <Kal-L> for some reason i code better early in the morning
[07:36:30] <mohadib> slava: ;)
[07:36:43] <mohadib> rogue-kun{B}: ;) j/k
[07:36:45] <rogue-kun{B}> Kal-L: less distractions
[07:37:13] <slava> mohadib: did you learn pimping from an O-G or did it come naturally
[07:37:29] <mohadib> slava: you dont *learn* pimpin'
[07:37:41] <mohadib> i could not teach another
[07:37:46] <mohadib> you do ... or you dont
[07:37:51] <slava> lol
[07:38:23] *** watzlaf has joined ##java
[07:38:35] <rogue-kun{B}> mohadib: bad you learn pimping at you the cuff your daddy's ballon pants! ;)
[07:38:45] <rogue-kun{B}> s/bad/bah/
[07:38:59] <mohadib> heh
[07:39:04] <elvin|coder> how can i detect current wi-fi connection SID in java?
[07:39:10] <mohadib> na , a true pimps dad can not be found
[07:39:42] <mohadib> elvin|coder: er.  Runtime.getRuntime().exec("iwconfig"); :p
[07:39:50] <rogue-kun{B}> mohadib: of cores becase the pimp "retiured" him when he was ready to take over the terf 8)
[07:40:02] <mohadib> w0rd w0rd
[07:40:04] <elvin|coder> mohadib, you rule :)
[07:40:10] <mohadib> heh
[07:40:26] <mohadib> happy to serve
[07:40:42] <slava> servin' dem hoez
[07:40:55] <mohadib> a large helpin foo
[07:41:16] <mohadib> man i feel white atm
[07:41:24] <elvin|coder> and in windows? :)
[07:41:39] <mohadib> elvin|coder: dont know
[07:41:44] <mohadib> ask Clackwell
[07:41:50] <mohadib> he loves that stuff....winders
[07:41:52] <elvin|coder> Clackwell'll kill me
[07:42:05] <elvin|coder> ll .. ll .. ll...
[07:42:20] <mohadib> Clackwells real name is Lloyd
[07:42:25] *** gnostos has quit IRC
[07:44:10] <epswing> what about this neat-o JTable class...
[07:44:22] <mohadib> it's really keen iirc
[07:44:37] <rogue-kun{B}> epswing: JTables are ... intresting
[07:44:38] <dibblego> what neat-o JTable class?
[07:44:46] <mohadib> heh
[07:44:55] <epswing> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/javax/swing/JTable.html
[07:45:08] <dibblego> you gave me hope
[07:45:19] <mohadib> no such luck
[07:45:21] <rogue-kun{B}> yes JTable .... Intesting.....
[07:45:32] <mohadib> jtable is mildy useable imho
[07:45:39] <dibblego> s/jtable/javax.swing
[07:45:39] * Kal-L wonders if he is the first black superman
[07:46:08] * rogue-kun{B} had to quaff a pan galatix gargle blaster before I understood JTables
[07:46:08] <mohadib> dibblego: swing is not that bad ... if you want to make a medicore gui quickly...well its a good tool for the job
[07:46:17] <slava> lol
[07:46:37] <dibblego> mohadib: it's disgusting
[07:46:41] <mohadib> heh
[07:46:54] <slava> swing is every bad programming practice distilled into one package
[07:46:57] <mohadib> dibblego: you are like my GF ... drama queen ;)
[07:47:01] <Kal-L> lol
[07:47:02] <mohadib> slava: hahaha
[07:47:07] <Kal-L> limewire was writting using swing
[07:47:12] <dibblego> slava: I started to write something like that, but couldn't be arsed point it all out :)
[07:47:15] <Kal-L> and it looks fine :P
[07:47:26] <dibblego> mohadib: I accept reality, even if it may be undesirable
[07:47:33] * mohadib nods
[07:47:39] <mohadib> dibblego: i have done html
[07:47:44] <mohadib> swing is fucking great
[07:47:49] <mohadib> ;)
[07:48:00] <dibblego> you're speaking from an aesthetic perspective I suspect
[07:48:01] <Kal-L> lol
[07:48:32] <mohadib> dibblego: no , speaking about what is easier to work with .. and what is eassier to read ... etc
[07:48:36] <dibblego> I'll bet you still haven't written unit tests (requirements) for your swing applications yet
[07:48:39] *** enervate has joined ##java
[07:48:43] <mohadib> dibblego: no :\
[07:48:52] <dibblego> still haven't figured out why?
[07:49:03] <mohadib> dibblego: well ....np
[07:49:04] <mohadib> no
[07:49:17] <dibblego> the answer lies somewhere behind slava's comment
[07:49:48] <dibblego> and if you can't specify requirements for some software, doesn't that implicitly invalidate that software to be deemed illegitimate?
[07:49:51] <mohadib> right ... i can not compare it against what in theory would be a really nice and perfect gui widget set
[07:49:58] <dibblego> precisely
[07:50:07] <mohadib> cause i only have html and gtk to compare it to
[07:50:14] <slava> gtk is far superior to swing
[07:50:16] <mohadib> and both write like ass ... or somthing
[07:50:22] <dibblego> it is perhaps the lesser of two evils (HTML), but that doesn't prevent it from being disgusting (a very conservative description)
[07:50:28] <mohadib> slava: but the api is way less nice
[07:51:03] <mohadib> swings api is nice
[07:51:08] <dibblego> stop, please
[07:51:14] <slava> mohadib:  no way
[07:51:18] <mohadib> and it allows mediocre programmers to do alot more than they should
[07:51:27] <slava> swing's api is terrible
[07:51:31] <mohadib> ok
[07:51:35] <slava> doing easy things is hard and doing hard things is impossible
[07:51:49] <slava> most of the code is not reusable in any way at all
[07:51:52] <mohadib> compared too what
[07:51:53] <slava> yet they make heavy use of subclassing
[07:52:17] <dibblego> subclassing and violating the principle of symbiotism on interface operations
[07:52:17] <mohadib> gtk is not even really OO but it tries to fake it
[07:52:22] <mohadib> the api is crap
[07:52:26] <mohadib> and it is still slow
[07:52:34] <slava> mohadib: compared to clim or morphic
[07:52:45] <mohadib> ill have to take your word
[07:52:50] <mohadib> and i will :)
[07:52:57] <dibblego> how many people enter this channel and ask what method x() of Component does or why it does this or that, or does nothing, or...?
[07:52:59] <mohadib> SWING SUCKS!!
[07:53:10] * mohadib shaves head and follows the pack
[07:53:22] <L----D> lol
[07:53:48] <mohadib> one day when i use a nice gui tool kit ... well hell , ill be beside myself with pleasure
[07:53:52] <mohadib> i cant waite!
[07:54:26] <dibblego> I'm 27 years old; I plan to release one in my lifetime, the onus is on me, I offer my apology pre-emptively should my goal not be met before my death
[07:54:32] <mohadib> dibblego: that could be said about the whole java api
[07:54:39] <dibblego> mohadib: and the language spec.
[07:54:53] <dibblego> ever wondered why?
[07:55:09] <mohadib> no , i conced to brokeness and move on ;)
[07:55:10] <dibblego> s/wondered/really, truly thought about it in greatd detail
[07:55:29] <dibblego> you must within the context of Java
[07:55:31] <mohadib> and what did you come to?
[07:55:38] *** Folgore has joined ##java
[07:55:47] <slava> 42
[07:55:48] <mohadib> just poorly implimented?
[07:55:53] <mohadib> ahh 42
[07:55:55] <dibblego> that the language spec. is severely broken, full of mistakes that most people are still trying to explain away
[07:55:57] <mohadib> i should have known
[07:55:59] <dibblego> as is the API spec.
[07:56:10] <mohadib> hmm , it is a tool
[07:56:14] <dibblego> some principles have been formulated that assume a given axiom
[07:56:18] <mohadib> and .. it works for some stuff
[07:56:23] <dibblego> I still await an invalidation
[07:56:24] <mohadib> i dont see how it can be nroken
[07:56:26] <Folgore> hi just wondering for garbage collection, how quick does it occur?
[07:56:27] <mohadib> broken
[07:56:34] <dibblego> no sir, it *appears* to work
[07:56:42] <mohadib> is a happer broken for not being a wrench too
[07:56:43] <dibblego> but you said so yourself, you cannot specify your requirements
[07:56:47] <mohadib> hammer
[07:56:57] <dibblego> your argument is a digression
[07:56:58] <mohadib> well , i did not say that
[07:57:03] <dibblego> a hammer solves a problem
[07:57:09] <mohadib> i said i am unable to test them
[07:57:11] <mohadib> as does java
[07:57:17] <dibblego> yes, tests and requirements are intrinsic
[07:57:18] <mohadib> thats why you are payed to writre it
[07:57:20] <mohadib> ;)
[07:57:27] * ricky_clarkson wakes
[07:57:35] <slava> dibblego: what is this axiom
[07:57:44] <dibblego> it solves a very small subset of problems, while the important ones are constantly trying to be explained
[07:58:11] <mohadib> dibblego: well , maybe some people need to accpet that it is *just* a hammer
[07:58:20] <dibblego> slava: I haven't formally defined it in writing, but something along the lines of "to provide software that permits a full set of stated requirements to be met"
[07:58:29] <dibblego> mohadib: it is a hammer made of tissue
[07:58:33] <mohadib> heh
[07:58:41] <dibblego> I agree entirely, it would be great if you had a cold
[07:58:46] <mohadib> dibblego: you are making me old before my time!
[07:58:53] <dibblego> it *does* solve a problem
[07:58:59] <dibblego> a snotty nose
[07:59:01] <slava> dibblego: this does not cover technical design problems in the language and API
[07:59:07] <dibblego> but it certainly doesn't solve the important ones
[07:59:18] <mohadib> dibblego: like?
[07:59:20] <mohadib> ecommerce
[07:59:24] <dibblego> slava: I disagree; I like to consider the two linked
[07:59:27] <mohadib> lame guis?
[07:59:31] <dibblego> mohadib: to put nails into timber
[07:59:41] <ricky_clarkson> dibblego: *sniff* can you pass me a hammer please
[08:00:36] <dibblego> in fact, I don't like the term "design problem", since it is far too subjective
[08:00:52] <dibblego> but I'll use it with an audience who are married to the term
[08:01:04] <slava> i don't think problems are subjective
[08:01:21] <dibblego> for example, swing is broken, independantly of what I think (my definition of a "design problem")
[08:01:38] <slava> in java's case, there are concrete flaws which are not sujective, they could have been avoided with no net loss
[08:01:41] <mohadib> dibblego: broken means does not work
[08:01:47] <mohadib> i think you use it to liberaly
[08:02:01] <mohadib> maybe it is not desgined *perfectly* or even close
[08:02:07] <dibblego> slava: yes, but are they flaws in being a "broken design" or do they become flaws because they contradict requirements within a context?
[08:02:09] <dibblego> I prefer the latter
[08:02:11] <mohadib> that does not mean it is broken
[08:02:46] <dibblego> mohadib: if you count the issues that it causes you, me, everyone else, I think you'd agree that it is broken; the unfortunate part is that the consequences are often overlooked or attributed to something else
[08:03:02] <ricky_clarkson> This is great.
[08:03:04] <dibblego> I intend to highlight these consequences in my lifetime
[08:03:12] <ricky_clarkson> 1) Everything is amazing!
[08:03:25] <ricky_clarkson> 2) Everything sucks!
[08:03:40] <mohadib> swing is good enough
[08:03:51] <mohadib> it has its problem domain
[08:03:55] <slava> "good enough" is subjective
[08:03:58] <mohadib> rapidly built guis
[08:03:58] <slava> shit is good enough for flies to eat
[08:04:00] <dibblego> eating your own faeces is good enough for some
[08:04:03] <mohadib> slava: lol
[08:04:06] <ricky_clarkson> 3) Everything in existence sucks, let's imagine better stuff.
[08:04:11] <slava> mohadib: the thing is, swing development is not that fast
[08:04:22] <mohadib> slava: i think it can be
[08:04:25] <slava> no
[08:04:30] <mohadib> ok
[08:04:31] <ricky_clarkson> I know it can be.
[08:04:41] <dibblego> mohadib: it is the "how things appear vs how things are" phenomena that is so prevalent
[08:04:59] <dibblego> if you are arguing that swing meets its objective of appearing to solve some problem, then we agree
[08:05:10] <mohadib> dibblego: i only have my experience to draw on ... that an the assertions of others
[08:05:34] <mohadib> swing allows me to get paid
[08:05:40] <mohadib> </>
[08:05:40] <dibblego> mohadib: I defer my complete explanation as always, for fear of undermining myself with a paraphrase
[08:05:53] <mohadib> dibblego: /msg me then :)
[08:05:58] <slava> mohadib: that's always a red herring in a technical discussion
[08:06:07] <slava> we don't care if you get paid to code Swing, QBasic or RPG/400
[08:06:14] <mohadib> i do
[08:06:14] <dibblego> I'm 27, I play sport, I should live for a while; I'm more hopeful than you are, I promise
[08:06:23] <mohadib> and i care that i make my employer happy
[08:06:28] <dibblego> I don't
[08:06:30] <mohadib> and that my guis look good
[08:06:36] <mohadib> and swing lets me do all of that
[08:06:43] <dibblego> I care that I appear to make my employer happy
[08:06:47] <slava> i care about technological progress, not some pointy-haired employer
[08:06:58] <mohadib> so ... in *my* book ... you guys can /quit
[08:06:59] <mohadib> :p
[08:07:01] <dibblego> since it ultimately contributes to my own personal objective
[08:07:22] <mohadib> slava: well , im glad you can be so... commited
[08:07:24] <mohadib> i like to eat
[08:07:49] <slava> i like to eat too, which is why i spend time working with inferior tools like java and objective C
[08:07:57] <slava> but i won't defend them
[08:08:10] <dibblego> mohadib: I spent 2 hours today discussing that mind conditioning that you have become victim to
[08:08:14] <mohadib> im not defending anything , im realting my experiences
[08:08:27] *** vimacs has quit IRC
[08:08:31] <mohadib> you guys are realting everones elses exp , so i can realate mine?
[08:08:36] <ricky_clarkson> Some people get paid to kill.
[08:08:39] <dibblego> disguising capitalism as a requirement to your well being
[08:08:45] <mohadib> dibblego: conditioning?
[08:08:48] <mohadib> dibblego: hehe
[08:08:53] <mohadib> dibblego: no one sold me swing
[08:08:57] <mohadib> i didnt buy it
[08:08:59] <mohadib> i use it
[08:09:05] <dibblego> mohadib: it's easily proven in a few words of reasoning if you like
[08:09:14] <mohadib> some one asked me too , and said they would pay me , so i learned it
[08:09:24] <dibblego> it exists independantly of my own romantic falsifications of reality
[08:09:24] <mohadib> dibblego: please enlighten me
[08:09:25] <rogue-kun{B}> mohadib i think dibblego was talkin amercian captials contioning, not swing 8)
[08:09:45] <mohadib> well , im hardly your every day office chump
[08:09:48] <dibblego> mohadib: do you agree that there exists some elite group of individuals who own and control the mass?
[08:09:53] *** vate has quit IRC
[08:10:04] <mohadib> nor is my workplace a standard workplace ..
[08:10:08] <dibblego> by control, I mean, economically, etc. in such a way as to have similar agendas
[08:10:13] *** cybereal has quit IRC
[08:10:19] <mohadib> dibblego: emm ... sometimes ... but not reallty
[08:10:21] <mohadib> no
[08:10:35] <rogue-kun{B}> dibblego: I belvie ther a a group of people that bel;ive the own the masses, and have the power to get their own way
[08:10:37] <dibblego> mohadib: so there is no upper class society making decisions about what happens to the lower class?
[08:10:59] <mohadib> dibblego: ok , keep going
[08:11:01] <dibblego> who is your boss? and who is his/her boss?
[08:11:27] <mohadib> dibblego: this is much to ... abstract
[08:11:29] <mohadib> too
[08:11:34] <dibblego> mohadib: what is your agenda? to make money/to eat? if so, do you agree that these people are behaving in contradiction to your agenda?
[08:11:36] <mohadib> what are you getting at
[08:11:47] <dibblego> it's not really, I'm just paraphrasing many great philsophers
[08:11:54] *** dibblego has quit IRC
[08:12:00] <mohadib> wtf
[08:12:01] <slava> shizzam
[08:12:17] <slava> i don't work for nobody i make my own hustle
[08:12:17] <mohadib> i thougnt i was fixin to get learnt
[08:12:19] <mohadib> ;)
[08:12:23] <mohadib> slava: hehe
[08:12:38] *** dibblego has joined ##java
[08:12:39] <rogue-kun{B}> lol the MIBS got dibbelgo
[08:12:49] <rogue-kun{B}> MIBs even
[08:12:50] *** Aquila_Deus has joined ##java
[08:12:51] <dibblego> there is nothing abstract about it
[08:12:57] <dibblego> you agree, or you don't
[08:13:07] <rogue-kun{B}> wb it look liuke the MIBs got you 8)
[08:13:08] <dibblego> if you don't clarify what I (and many others) must otherwise misunderstand
[08:13:35] <mohadib> dibblego: ok , lets say the world is mamanged by rich people
[08:13:36] <dibblego> do you remember your parents asking you if you want chicken or steak for dinner?
[08:13:44] <mohadib> so.. please continue
[08:13:45] <dibblego> what happened if you said pizza?
[08:13:47] <rogue-kun{B}> dibblego: i recongines your filling off the id-plates to avoid kneey jerk reactions condtion in to masses
[08:14:07] <dibblego> do you think it's a question or a form of mind conditioning?
[08:14:16] <mohadib> dibblego: the word pizza
[08:14:17] <mohadib> ?
[08:14:24] <dibblego> no, what your parents did
[08:14:35] <slava> mmm pizza
[08:14:47] <slava> i've been mind conditioned into craving pizza at odd hours
[08:14:56] <mohadib> um , well , to a degree yes , your parents teach you lots of things
[08:15:12] <ricky_clarkson> slava: 1,3,5,7am?
[08:15:23] <dibblego> if there exists an elite who can somehow make you believe that you are meeting agenda, while you are not, then this implies mind conditioning
[08:15:40] <dibblego> mohadib: what did they teach you?
[08:15:40] * rogue-kun{B} wonders when dcc will be expanded to bable to delver pizza 8)
[08:15:50] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: If you're going to assert that Swing is good because you get paid for it, then be prepared for abstract comments.
[08:15:53] <dibblego> to think within a given set of bounds (chicken or steak) always?
[08:16:05] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: thats not why i asserted that it was goods
[08:16:06] *** Goc has quit IRC
[08:16:12] <mohadib> im done with this converstion
[08:16:30] <mohadib> ty for your time dibbl :)
[08:16:38] <ricky_clarkson> = 07:07:14 < mohadib> swing allows me to get paid
[08:16:50] <slava> swinging allows me to get laid.
[08:16:51] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: sure , is there any other context?
[08:17:00] <ricky_clarkson> slava: With ugly fat birds.
[08:17:06] <dibblego> mohadib: I am forced to conclude that you do not see my point regarding swing because you have a different philosophy, and perspective of reality; that which I attribute entirely to capitalism
[08:17:09] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: Mucho.
[08:17:33] <dibblego> and is an unfortunate falsification (I'm sure my perspective is as well, but I have no explanation, of course, otherwise, I'd change it)
[08:17:48] <mohadib> dibblego: unless you can provide me a clear understanding of what you are talking about...
[08:17:56] *** TimmyD01 has joined ##java
[08:18:05] <dibblego> mohadib: I very much doubt on IRC, but I can certainly provide references
[08:18:16] <slava> mohadib: you've been conditioned to like swing because your owners dangle money in front of you like a carrot to a donkey
[08:18:24] <dibblego> the one that is tugging at me is of course, the writings of Karl Marx
[08:18:29] <ricky_clarkson> I think we need to move on to making programming languages that *aren't* afraid to refactor their APIs from release to release.
[08:18:33] <mohadib> and teh hoes love my GUIs
[08:19:06] <dibblego> ricky_clarkson: Pure will achieve that implicitly by its stated objectives
[08:19:15] * ricky_clarkson gives mohadib a gun and conditions him to hate Canadians.
[08:19:18] <dibblego> in fact, it's achievable in Java
[08:19:20] <slava> vaporware alert
[08:19:28] <dibblego> it's just unconventional unfortunately
[08:19:44] <dibblego> slava: I've 27, I'll live to ~80; it *will* exist
[08:19:47] <dibblego> *I'm
[08:19:56] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: im american... so i have been practicing my canadian accent for when i travel
[08:20:00] <dibblego> get me the fuck out of this job, and it will happen sooner :)
[08:20:18] <ricky_clarkson> Yeah, but there'll be a new dibblego around who will balk at every choice you made.
[08:20:49] <mohadib> as if design is a yes or no answer
[08:20:53] <dibblego> that won't happen
[08:21:03] <ricky_clarkson> Java will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.
[08:21:38] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: Do you miss goto?
[08:21:50] <rogue-kun{B}> Java works. could it works better? of cores, becuase it is still disquaisble from magic 8)
[08:21:51] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: i never used it
[08:21:55] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: do you?
[08:22:00] <dibblego> I tried to tell my manager the other day not to reiterate the text book guff, as if somehow I haven't tried it, tested it, invalidated it, and moved on; I was of course, persecuted, told to fit in the box, or else...
[08:22:09] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: have you had your coffee yet?
[08:22:15] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: Hell no.
[08:22:17] <epswing> blast!  i can't really set the cells of a JTable to a given colour, it just runs off what's "selected"
[08:22:19] <ricky_clarkson> I'm still in bed.
[08:22:24] <mohadib> heh
[08:22:26] <L----D> lol
[08:22:48] <rogue-kun{B}> Any Technology distingusible from magic, is insuffeently advace - I Asimov 8)
[08:23:06] *** kinabalu has quit IRC
[08:23:21] <L----D> how many hours do you sleep everyday, guys
[08:23:23] <dibblego> mohadib: google up Karl Marx and have a read
[08:23:24] *** rizzo has quit IRC
[08:23:29] <ricky_clarkson> L----D: 24.
[08:23:41] <dibblego> L----D: 8 hopefully; children's agendas pending
[08:23:43] <mohadib> dibblego: what would you have me take away from it?
[08:24:09] <dibblego> mohadib: something to reflect on, and hopefully formulate perhaps a more correct perspective of reality
[08:24:16] <mohadib> haha
[08:24:17] *** Danielle has joined ##java
[08:24:18] <ricky_clarkson> Row row row your boat, life is but a dream.
[08:24:22] <dibblego> there's nothing to lose
[08:24:30] <mohadib> dibblego: what do you know about me perspective lol
[08:24:36] <ijoyce> L----D, 8, in 2 4 hour increments.
[08:24:47] <mohadib> you cant ever possibly use my persective
[08:24:51] <dibblego> a possible case is that you improve your perspective such that you conclude that Marx is full of shit; whatever case, you are more enlightened
[08:24:56] <dibblego> mohadib: I have no idea
[08:24:57] <mohadib> so dont make assumptions about it
[08:25:05] <ricky_clarkson> I sleep between 4 and 12 hours per night, variable.
[08:25:06] <dibblego> but you certainly didn't know what I was referring to earlier
[08:25:18] <mohadib> who Marx?
[08:25:22] <ricky_clarkson> Hah.
[08:25:23] <dibblego> and since a lot of the people that I talk to do, I suggest that there is something for you to learn
[08:25:32] <mohadib> ...
[08:25:34] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: The Marx brothers, film directors.
[08:25:36] <dibblego> Karl Marx
[08:25:45] <mohadib> yes
[08:25:47] <mohadib> no shit
[08:25:48] <mohadib> :p
[08:26:08] <rogue-kun{B}> Karl Mark was a German Pholpher
[08:26:09] <L----D> Karl Marx is sleeping :P
[08:26:15] <slava> around
[08:26:21] <rogue-kun{B}> philopher even
[08:26:24] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: If your question is more complex than 'who Marx' you might want to apply some grammar.
[08:26:42] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: dude ... get off my nutz
[08:26:48] <mohadib> :)
[08:27:01] <slava> ~nutz
[08:27:02] <javabot> deeez nuuuttzzz
[08:27:17] <mohadib> w0rd
[08:27:24] <ricky_clarkson> phrAse
[08:27:35] <ricky_clarkson> s3ntence
[08:27:39] <dibblego> mohadib: you could always just research philosophy in general; what you are describing is a phenomena that is discussed in various prose by lots of philosophers
[08:27:45] <rogue-kun{B}> dibblego: have you read all three parts of Captial?
[08:27:55] <mohadib> dibblego: what phenomena?
[08:27:57] <dibblego> rogue-kun{B}: no, unfortunately
[08:28:03] <mohadib> the phenomena that i disagree with you?>
[08:28:19] <dibblego> mohadib: not at all; that's why I pointed you to Marx :)
[08:28:32] <dibblego> the one that you don't see
[08:28:42] <ricky_clarkson> I quote Plato - "Thou shalt not disagree with the strange one from Southern lands"
[08:29:12] <rogue-kun{B}> ricky_clarkson: cool you dont get more sothern the New Zeland... so don't disagree with me ;)
[08:29:15] <dibblego> I dare not paraphrase Marx (or others), so I just used my own feeble words, which understandbly, may have left you confused
[08:29:40] <strobedream> .... are you guys talking about philosophy in ##java?
[08:29:51] <dibblego> not any more, I have work to appear to be doing
[08:29:55] <mohadib> well , you did not really get to say much .. as this room has too much noise ... like us :p
[08:30:00] * dibblego appears to do work
[08:30:05] <mohadib> dibblego: ;)
[08:30:16] <rogue-kun{B}> strobedream.nextOpenQuestion();
[08:30:32] <slava> strobedream: we're trying to understand dibblego's reason for thinking that swing sucks, which is admittedly much more complex than mine -- the people who implemented it are incompetent
[08:30:43] <mohadib> hahaha
[08:30:49] <mohadib> javabot: slava++
[08:30:49] <javabot> slava has a karma level of 118, mohadib
[08:30:57] <mohadib> slava: that i can live with
[08:31:18] <strobedream> wow
[08:32:03] <mohadib> strobedream: im going to be in albq tomorrow
[08:32:07] <strobedream> wohoo
[08:32:08] <mohadib> wanna have lunch?
[08:32:11] <strobedream> so drinks on you
[08:32:11] * rogue-kun{B} humm stream strobedream seam not to have the next token...
[08:32:12] <strobedream> sure
[08:32:25] <mohadib> strobedream: hehe , im broke ... taco bell on me \0/
[08:32:27] * rogue-kun{B} = ##java.nextOpenQuestion();
[08:32:32] <strobedream> lol
[08:32:41] <strobedream> na. something better
[08:32:43] <strobedream> I got it
[08:32:45] <mohadib> but why male models?
[08:32:51] <mohadib> strobedream: ;)
[08:32:57] <strobedream> what
[08:33:07] <mohadib> that was just the open questoin
[08:33:12] <strobedream> oh
[08:33:16] *** Folgore has quit IRC
[08:33:29] <strobedream> cuz they aren't as big a complainers as most girls
[08:34:14] * rogue-kun{B} found his bug....
[08:34:15] <mohadib> no ... cause they are in good shape and have access to everywherre
[08:34:29] * rogue-kun{B} = (java)##java.nextOpenQuestion();
[08:35:11] *** Goosemoose has joined ##java
[08:36:53] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: Swing sucks because it is difficult to write automated tests for code that uses it, as that code is usually bound to an implementation, which is not flexible enough for automated tests.
[08:37:10] <dibblego> mohadib: also google for Lenin and Trotsky for a very different perspective
[08:37:16] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: ok , but it is still a useable tool
[08:37:20] <slava> mohadib: also keep in mind that having erections too rarely causes impotence
[08:37:25] <dibblego> I found a link that sums it up well: "LENIN, TROTSKY, AND FREEDOM FROM THE TYRANNY OF KNOWLEDGE AND REASON"
[08:37:27] <dibblego> :)
[08:37:29] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: So is a gun.
[08:37:31] <mohadib> slava: hah
[08:37:32] * dibblego appearing to do work for real
[08:37:38] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: what does that mean
[08:37:56] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: Just because a tool is usable doesn't mean it's good.
[08:38:02] <slava> dibblego: having spent my early years in the USSR, i can say that anything with lenin's name on it should be avoided
[08:38:29] *** FaeLLe has quit IRC
[08:38:29] <dibblego> nothing should be avoided
[08:38:34] <dibblego> think for yourself
[08:38:45] <dibblego> if you disagree entirely, you are still more enlightened
[08:39:22] <rogue-kun{B}> slava: Leni's worlk pre or post Stalin re-writes? 8)
[08:39:27] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: my stance is that ... its a tool , and it is what it is , it works , and i have made some nice stuff with it , i rather like it
[08:39:41] <mohadib> thats my revised stmnt
[08:40:16] <dibblego> and the day you can provide the definition of "works" you may inadvertantly convince yourself of the contrary
[08:40:21] <dibblego> that's my stance :)
[08:40:29] * mohadib nods
[08:41:04] <rogue-kun{B}> dibblego: works forfills the need toask so that the users can get onto the next task
[08:41:06] *** palomer has joined ##java
[08:41:07] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: I like this gun, I shot 50 (rednecks|negros|welshmen) with it.
[08:41:16] <palomer> hello
[08:41:26] <palomer> how do I get the file name of a File object?
[08:41:29] <palomer> (instead of the path?)
[08:41:31] *** Timmy02 has joined ##java
[08:41:31] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: do you have a point?
[08:41:43] <rogue-kun{B}> ricky_clarkson: the use the tool is put to is not the fault of the tool 8)
[08:41:54] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: should i not like it because you and dibbl told me to?
[08:42:10] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: Did you write automated tests for your code?
[08:42:14] <mohadib> no
[08:42:22] <dibblego> mohadib: most certainly not
[08:42:24] <ricky_clarkson> Why?
[08:42:41] <ricky_clarkson> rogue-kun{B}: Is there another use?
[08:42:49] <mohadib> i dont know how to test for the things I check visualy
[08:42:58] <dibblego> mohadib: I propose a line of reasoning already; you cannot specify the requirements of your software (if you don't understand the distinction/similarity between unit tests/requirements, refer to TDD)
[08:43:13] <dibblego> the rest I leave entirely up to you
[08:43:18] <dibblego> I am no preacher
[08:43:23] <mohadib> dibblego: in mvc i can test the M and C ...automated style
[08:43:24] <rogue-kun{B}> palomer: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/io/File.html#getName()
[08:43:33] <mohadib> testing the V is a little harder
[08:43:38] <dibblego> mohadib: no sir, you cannot even do that; ever used a coverage tool?
[08:43:44] <rogue-kun{B}> ricky_clarkson: yes a) Target Shoot, b) Hunting
[08:43:56] <ricky_clarkson> rogue-kun{B}: a==b
[08:44:04] <mohadib> do people unit test gui widget sets in other languages?
[08:44:15] <dibblego> you might test it to *your* acceptable threshold, but unfortunately, it will fall far short of a full set of requirements
[08:44:23] <slava> in clim there is a presentation/command abstraction so your GUI is specified declaratively
[08:44:23] <rogue-kun{B}> a != b   A does not provid food, b does
[08:44:26] <mohadib> dibblego: i have played with one ... i dont know if i could call it *using*
[08:44:32] <dibblego> not that I'm aware of; all existing solutions are horribly suboptimal
[08:44:33] <ricky_clarkson> dibblego: I find unit testing difficult because of the amount of mocking required.
[08:44:41] *** terence_ has joined ##java
[08:44:43] <slava> ricky_clarkson: then your code is broken
[08:44:51] <rogue-kun{B}> Target Shoot in this case refter to shooting inanime objects
[08:44:54] <ricky_clarkson> slava: How so?
[08:45:05] <slava> in factor all my definitions are 1-2 lines, and most take very simple objects as input; easy to test
[08:45:07] <mohadib> dibblego: TDD?
[08:45:12] <dibblego> the only time specifying requirements is difficult is when I have a third party dependancy with implicit requirement defects, like javax.swing
[08:45:34] <pr3d4t0r> :(
[08:45:35] <dibblego> mohadib: Test Driven Development (not a definitive source, but should provide a good basis for you to extrapolate your own thoughts and reasoning)
[08:45:46] <mohadib> ty
[08:45:50] <pr3d4t0r> It looks like I'll have to write these drivers myself... ::sigh::
[08:45:56] <dibblego> anyway, appearing to do work for real for real too
[08:46:00] <mohadib> haha
[08:46:18] * ricky_clarkson appears to consider the thought of getting up.
[08:46:51] * pr3d4t0r wonders if this drive will work under OS X out of the box...
[08:47:21] <rogue-kun{B}> pr3d4t0r why wonder, experminet! 8)
[08:47:32] <mohadib> heh
[08:47:39] <ricky_clarkson> Experminate, Experminate!
[08:47:40] <mohadib> you are in san fran
[08:47:49] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: I don't get paid for writing Linux drivers ;)
[08:48:14] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: Though I had an offer for a job implementing Linux file systems for OS X last week.  Now I wish I'd taken it :)
[08:48:22] <slava> i don't get paid for most coding i do.
[08:48:43] <ricky_clarkson> I get paid for more coding than I do.
[08:48:46] <ricky_clarkson> Err.
[08:48:48] <slava> hahahh
[08:48:49] <mohadib> heh
[08:48:54] <slava> ~ricky_clarkson++
[08:48:55] <javabot> ricky_clarkson has a karma level of 99, slava
[08:48:56] *** TimmyD01 has quit IRC
[08:49:14] <terence_> Does someone know a random xml data generator ?
[08:49:20] <slava> yes, spring
[08:49:24] <mohadib> haha
[08:49:30] <ricky_clarkson> XMLEncoder.
[08:49:33] <rogue-kun{B}> pr3d4t0r: you thinking pass the first step the first test is to dest the Hypotise "This Drive Will work on OS X with out special configuration" 8)
[08:49:35] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: slava++
[08:49:35] <javabot> slava has a karma level of 119, pr3d4t0r
[08:49:46] <pr3d4t0r> terence_: Dude, questions like that ought to get you kicked.
[08:50:10] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: I'm sure it will.  I can try plugging it :)
[08:50:15] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: In fact...
[08:50:15] <rogue-kun{B}> palomer: link do you any good?
[08:50:20] * pr3d4t0r starts doing surgery.
[08:50:29] <ricky_clarkson> In EFNet he'd have been pre-emptoively banned, stripped and set upon by hungry wolves.
[08:50:53] <mohadib> rough place that
[08:51:27] *** omay has quit IRC
[08:51:50] <ricky_clarkson> I'm actually on #javahelp on there, but it's really quiet.
[08:52:08] <ricky_clarkson> I can hear the ghosts of old #java banned users every so often.
[08:52:41] *** pandora-- has quit IRC
[08:52:42] <rogue-kun{B}> ricky_clarkson: dont listen to the ghostes they just tring to drive you sane 8)
[08:52:48] <mohadib> getting banned from #java at efnet is trivial
[08:52:52] <dibblego> dooes anything worthwhile ever occur on that channel?
[08:53:53] <ricky_clarkson> pred says it does.#
[08:53:53] <mohadib> only when I am here , best i can tell
[08:54:18] <dibblego> I should invest some patience to find out
[08:54:20] <terence_> ricky_clarkson:  xml encoder class has no possibility to set a dtd /shema as source and no random generation ..
[08:54:30] <ricky_clarkson> I'm actually using IRC from the same box as pr3d, so when I get banned from somewhere he does too.
[08:54:35] <pr3d4t0r> He, he, he...
[08:54:38] *** snooplsm has quit IRC
[08:54:57] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: The drive mounted just fine under OS X.  It's a Linux fuck up.
[08:55:06] *** [GT]Kane has joined ##java
[08:55:16] <pr3d4t0r> (My bad for expecting it to just work under Linux; nothing ever "just works" there.)
[08:55:17] <[GT]Kane> another night lol who wants to help me get java 64bit working on freebsd :D
[08:55:25] <ricky_clarkson> sure it does.  Write a random String to it.
[08:55:39] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: good one
[08:55:55] <ricky_clarkson> [GT]Kane: Consult your OS vendor, or your Java vendor.
[08:56:07] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: i cant remeber the last time i had to download a driver , or use a driver disk
[08:56:18] <terence_> ricky_clarkson:   he, only combinations as specified in dtd are allowed
[08:56:19] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: get good hardware
[08:56:31] <[GT]Kane> ricky_clarkson why do you say that just cuz you know crap all lol don't mean you gotta say that lol
[08:57:05] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: but... i do rember the last kernel i compiled for support :p
[08:57:13] <terence_> IBM wrote such Generator, it was free- but now its integrated in VisAge and i can't find it in Eclipse
[08:57:19] <[GT]Kane> plus freebsd channal sucks they don't even know how to turn the pc on lol
[08:57:32] <dibblego> terence_: it comes with RAD
[08:57:40] <dibblego> formerly known as WSAD
[08:57:41] <ricky_clarkson> terence_: No, encode a random String using XMLEncoder, not by altering the XML manually.
[08:57:52] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: If I had my choice, this would be an OS X Server, not a Linux box.
[08:58:02] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: why?
[08:58:02] <ricky_clarkson> [GT]Kane: That's not ##java's fault.
[08:58:05] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: I had to deal with worse; this is OKi.
[08:58:18] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: so you can pay more for hardware?
[08:58:18] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Because with OS X you plug stuff and it just works.
[08:58:23] <terence_> dibblego:  what is RAD?
[08:58:27] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: i can see for a desktop box
[08:58:27] <[GT]Kane> it's pr3d4t0r fault :D
[08:58:31] <pr3d4t0r> There's no need to dick around with sstuff.
[08:58:45] <rogue-kun{B}> pr3d4t0r: you proiblity tested your conclution ;)
[08:58:46] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: well , with good hardware , linux is the same
[08:59:08] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: linux is just easier to work via the command line i would guess
[08:59:16] <ricky_clarkson> [GT]Kane: Have you tried all avenues of FreeBSD, or just IRC?  (e.g., mailing lists)
[08:59:18] *** heanol has joined ##java
[08:59:32] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: why occur the overhead of a gui .. more code to crash
[08:59:32] <ricky_clarkson> [GT]Kane: Same question for Java.
[08:59:42] <Kal-L> can i implement a window listener inside an action listener?
[08:59:48] <[GT]Kane> I'm about to get the phone book and call random homes till somone knows somthing
[09:00:03] <mohadib> heh
[09:00:10] <ricky_clarkson> Kal-L: As an inner/nested class, yes.
[09:00:11] <mohadib> im glad im unlisted
[09:00:14] <terence_> dibblego:  WSAD= WebSphere Studio Application Developer  ?
[09:00:19] <dibblego> terence_: correct
[09:00:31] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Macs don't crash.
[09:00:34] <ricky_clarkson> [GT]Kane: Your research methods are flawed.
[09:00:38] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Unlike Linux systems, they have QA.
[09:00:42] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: uhh , sure they do
[09:00:46] <mohadib> i have seen it
[09:01:00] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: They were probably running Linux PPC ;)
[09:01:04] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: haha
[09:01:06] <dibblego> they only appear to crash
[09:01:16] <dibblego> all you have to do is redefine crash, and it never crashes
[09:01:29] <mohadib> dibblego: oh , right , they are just so sloooow you think they have crashed
[09:01:32] *** d0gf has quit IRC
[09:01:37] <ricky_clarkson> I used to think RANDOMIZE USR on the Spectrum was another way to reboot.
[09:01:46] <ricky_clarkson> Of course, it just crashed the OS.
[09:01:56] <rogue-kun{B}> yes Windows never Crashes, it just Blue Screens ;)
[09:02:01] <mohadib> heh
[09:02:10] <mohadib> its all about how you sale it
[09:02:25] <terence_> dibblego: is that tool still external or completly pluged into that RAD App?
[09:02:30] <ricky_clarkson> My laptop doesn't crash, it just fails to wake up from standby.
[09:02:51] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: buy a linux box from a builder like  http://www.laclinux.com if you want tested hardware with the OS
[09:03:03] <mohadib> and ...and!!! you get support :)
[09:03:04] <rogue-kun{B}> ricky_clarkson: at least you have one
[09:03:12] <dibblego> terence_: I don't know for sure, but I'll guess it's an Eclipse plugin; I avoid WSAD/RAD wherever possible
[09:03:17] *** berzerka has joined ##java
[09:03:20] <dibblego> WSAD/RAD/Eclipse
[09:03:21] <mohadib> that knows *stuff*! its crazy , and still cheaper than a mac
[09:04:23] <heanol> i'm doing some axis stuff and have a webservice.. now when a 3rd uses it, i get an exception.. org.xml.sax.SAXException: SimpleDeserializer encountered a child element, which is NOT expected, in something it was trying to deserialize
[09:04:28] <heanol> how can i debug this?
[09:05:02] <dibblego> heanol: Axis comes with TCPMonitor; inspect the TCP traffic
[09:05:16] <terence_> dibblego:  i already serached for that plugin, but couldn't find it - what you you think would it be named or where to serach else?
[09:05:31] <heanol> dibblego, it logs the body it gets so i already have that.. but i cannot see anything wrong with it
[09:05:45] <heanol> can't i get it to tell me *what* child element is unexpected?
[09:07:34] *** cybereal has joined ##java
[09:07:52] <cybereal> Damn transformer blew, all my power is out :(
[09:08:05] <cybereal> Connecting on my laptop over GPRS with my cell phone... sloooow
[09:09:11] <heanol> get 3G =)
[09:09:23] <cybereal> There is no 3G in the US
[09:09:25] <Kal-L> guys i need some help
[09:09:26] *** lobz has joined ##java
[09:09:49] <Kal-L> everytime my login windows closes it sets the login window in my other frame
[09:09:56] <heanol> :o
[09:09:58] <heanol> the us sucks then
[09:10:02] <mohadib> Kal-L: ?
[09:10:21] *** Folgore has joined ##java
[09:10:38] <hatOFF> is there someone that cares to help me with some implementation in a java socket server? i really don't know where to place those if, inside the class outside the class.. i'm always having errors. I'm trying to create multiplayer games and I need this socket server so the one who will help me will get credited in all my games. Thanks in advance.
[09:10:57] *** palomer has quit IRC
[09:11:59] *** cybereal has quit IRC
[09:12:23] <Kal-L> mohadib, dude i'm going crazy
[09:12:26] <Kal-L> i've confused myself
[09:12:26] *** cybereal has joined ##java
[09:12:32] <cybereal> Much better
[09:12:32] <mohadib> heh
[09:12:52] <pr3d4t0r> OKi kids.
[09:12:55] <pr3d4t0r> Have a good night.
[09:13:01] <pr3d4t0r> . z Z z .
[09:13:12] <hatOFF> mohadib you said you're going to sleep!
[09:13:13] <hatOFF> :)
[09:13:17] <Kal-L> i have a login window that consits of a frame that asks for a pwd
[09:13:22] <mohadib> hatOFF: i know , i need too
[09:13:25] <Kal-L> if the pwd is correct it should close that window and display a new one
[09:13:33] <Kal-L> it displays teh contents of the old window in the new window
[09:14:13] <mohadib> Kal-L: you sure its not .... the same window :p;
[09:14:38] <Kal-L> hmm...
[09:14:39] <Kal-L> damnit
[09:14:47] <mohadib> heh
[09:15:04] <cybereal> I wrote my first o'caml program :D http://code.bulix.org/698?raw
[09:18:04] <mohadib> hatOFF: did you make a new class that impliments runnable and the ctor takes a socket as the arg yet?
[09:20:13] *** teralaser has joined ##java
[09:20:33] *** Andre4s has joined ##java
[09:22:19] <Drone> View mohadib's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8401
[09:22:24] <mohadib> hatOFF: ^
[09:22:32] <mohadib> that should clear it up...no?
[09:23:31] <Andre4s> This is an Exception question. Is there and recomendation on how to handle exceptions? where to throw and where to catch? Is it allright to keep throwing exceptions up to the GUI layer for exampel? or should kontroller level take care of them?
[09:23:36] <Andre4s> controller
[09:24:20] <hatOFF> looking
[09:24:29] *** Lamex has joined ##java
[09:24:44] <hatOFF> NOW THAT was really easy
[09:24:49] <mohadib> heh
[09:25:22] <hatOFF> i made something different in the while
[09:25:27] <hatOFF> was inspiring from mook's chat app
[09:25:34] <hatOFF> moock though
[09:26:05] <hatOFF> but it still doesn't work
[09:26:36] <mohadib> ~tell hatOFF about doesnt work
[09:26:36] <javabot> hatOFF, 'doesn't work' is not very helpful.  What does it do, sit around on IRC all day?
[09:26:46] <mohadib> hatOFF: ;)
[09:27:24] <hatOFF> :)
[09:27:28] <hatOFF> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8402
[09:27:44] <hatOFF> View Stefan
[09:28:00] <hatOFF> :)
[09:28:21] <hatOFF> line 052
[09:28:30] <hatOFF> is sitting there like it would never exist
[09:28:33] <hatOFF> :)
[09:28:37] <Kal-L> i keep getting a non static variable can not be...
[09:28:41] <hatOFF> it compiles though :)
[09:28:46] <hatOFF> that's the good part
[09:28:59] <Kal-L> when i try to use main to instantiate a class...
[09:29:11] <Kal-L> not the pub one
[09:29:27] <mohadib> hatOFF: line 52 is a blank line
[09:29:41] <hatOFF> in my post
[09:29:49] <mohadib> yes
[09:30:00] <hatOFF> if (message.trim()=="hi")
[09:30:18] <cybereal> hatOFF: you can't do string comparison with ==
[09:30:33] <mohadib> 56
[09:30:59] <Timmy02> use .equals or .equalsIgnoreCase
[09:31:16] <hatOFF> eugeneciurana shows me 052
[09:31:24] *** alex_f has quit IRC
[09:31:37] <hatOFF> so i should mod it to if (message.trim().equals "hi")
[09:31:37] <hatOFF> ?
[09:31:40] <hatOFF> :)
[09:31:50] <cybereal> yeah but you need some parens in there
[09:32:06] <mohadib> ~tell hatOFF about javadoc String.equals(*)
[09:32:06] <javabot> hatOFF, please see java.lang.String.equals(java.lang.Object): http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/String.html#equals(java.lang.Object)
[09:32:13] <hatOFF> if (message.trim().equals("hi"))
[09:32:15] <hatOFF> damn I'm good.
[09:32:15] <roots-> hi guys
[09:32:22] <roots-> any females here btw ?
[09:32:33] <hatOFF> if you want i can call my mom roots-
[09:32:39] <Timmy02> hatOFF u making a chat program?
[09:33:03] <Drone> View Another
[09:33:28] *** alex_f has joined ##java
[09:33:41] <Kal-L> interesting post
[09:33:42] <Kal-L> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8403
[09:33:43] <hatOFF> no
[09:33:48] <hatOFF> multiplayer games
[09:33:53] <hatOFF> a collection
[09:34:24] *** codo has joined ##java
[09:34:28] <hatOFF> i'm just trying to understand this complicated socket stuff
[09:34:43] <codo> anyone know about JWL ?
[09:34:52] *** nwo has joined ##java
[09:34:55] <codo> JavaServerFaces Widget Library ?
[09:34:58] <Kal-L> ok mohadib, check out that post man
[09:35:02] <Kal-L> someone needs help bad
[09:35:04] <nwo> how to get the System Charset if Charset.defaultCharset() does not work because of the command line argument which set it to UTF-8
[09:35:20] <nwo> we need to export to an application which needs the system default but want to work with UTF-8 for all the rest
[09:35:52] <mohadib> Kal-L: dude , loops and arrays are your frineds :p
[09:35:54] <Andre4s> This is an Exception question. Is there and recomendation on how to handle exceptions? where to throw and where to catch? Is it allright to keep throwing exceptions up to the GUI layer for exampel? or should controller level take care of them?
[09:36:07] <roots-> nwo: if you set the encoding with -D then it is the system default
[09:36:11] <roots-> nwo: so you are out of luck
[09:36:13] <roots-> don't set it
[09:36:23] <Kal-L> lmao
[09:36:46] <mohadib> Kal-L: whats the problem?
[09:36:54] <Kal-L> like i stated
[09:36:56] <mohadib> actually no
[09:37:06] <Kal-L> can't get the login window to close then display next window
[09:37:06] <mohadib> i got to go to bed :p
[09:37:07] <Kal-L> :(
[09:37:09] <Kal-L> lol
[09:37:12] <Kal-L> i don't blame u
[09:37:12] <Kal-L> me 2
[09:37:33] <Kal-L> if i type new Login() under main
[09:37:45] <Kal-L> non static variable can not be referenced...
[09:37:55] <nwo> roots-: all our sources are encoded with UTF-8. I think we need to set it
[09:38:09] *** codo has left ##java
[09:38:10] <nwo> roots-: e.g. all messages
[09:38:16] <mohadib> Kal-L: in the action listner you call create gui if the logon is good
[09:38:32] <Kal-L> correct
[09:38:37] <mohadib> you also call creatgui in the ctor of Diary
[09:38:41] <Kal-L> the login gui is already created
[09:38:50] <mohadib> so of corse they are gonna look the same
[09:38:59] <mohadib> the login gui is calling the same create gui
[09:39:24] <Kal-L> why am i getting that this can not be referenced from a static .. w
[09:39:33] <Kal-L> when calling new Login(); ?
[09:39:57] <roots-> nwo: no you dont need to set it
[09:40:37] <Kal-L> i need to be able to cause the login window to open first
[09:40:42] <nwo> roots-: ok I'll work it out. At least I know I can't get it any more
[09:40:44] <Kal-L> then if everythign is correct creategui
[09:40:50] <roots-> nwo: now if you use classes like FileReader or such which rely on the default encoding you have to fix that
[09:41:11] <roots-> FileReader is just 100% broken under all circumstances
[09:41:19] <mohadib> Kal-L: where do you make a new Diary object?
[09:41:39] <Kal-L> i can make one under action listener for the ok button
[09:41:41] <roots-> why ? because you cannot specify the encoding and it picks up the default encoding, which is not under your control really
[09:41:53] <roots-> Kal-L: i recommend using Actions instead of ActionListeners
[09:42:06] <Kal-L> no prob
[09:44:01] <Kal-L> mohadib, if your sleep man i understand
[09:44:09] <Kal-L> sleepy
[09:44:11] <mohadib> Kal-L: move Login outside of the diary class
[09:45:59] <mohadib> good night
[09:46:01] *** mohadib has quit IRC
[09:48:51] <Kal-L> damn
[09:48:54] <Kal-L> now NOTHING happens
[09:49:20] *** berzerka has quit IRC
[09:49:48] *** Goosemoose has quit IRC
[09:51:20] *** mazon is now known as Mazon
[09:52:20] *** Kal-L has quit IRC
[09:52:31] *** Esaj has joined ##java
[09:53:34] *** moon_lander has joined ##java
[09:53:42] *** Twiun[Zzzzz] is now known as Twiun
[09:54:24] <moon_lander> hello, i'm new in java and i'm looking for some java-snmp library
[09:54:30] *** Bevin has joined ##java
[09:54:32] <Bevin> hi
[09:54:50] *** Andre4s has quit IRC
[09:54:59] <moon_lander> maybe java have standart snmp lib?
[09:55:04] <roots-> not in the core lib
[09:55:23] <moon_lander> hm
[09:55:28] <Twiun> google is your friend
[09:55:30] <roots-> you want to write a managing application or snmp agents ?
[09:55:50] <Timmy02> Sooo... anyone want to help with getting my server to listen and accept connections on 2 ports?
[09:56:36] *** doc|work has joined ##java
[09:57:15] <moon_lander> i dont know snmp well too, but i need make it in java, and if it posible in jython (it is better for me)
[09:57:49] <roots-> Timmy02: open 2 server sockets
[09:57:57] <roots-> or have some kind of external portforwarding going on
[09:58:03] <roots-> rinetd, your firewall, whatnot
[09:58:54] <L----D> hi roots-
[09:59:42] *** Job1 has joined ##java
[09:59:47] *** timerirq has joined ##java
[09:59:51] <timerirq> hello everyone
[10:00:47] <Timmy02> roots: i tried opening 2 server sockets
[10:00:49] <roots-> hi L----D
[10:00:54] <Timmy02> but still not letting me
[10:02:20] *** Bevin has quit IRC
[10:05:11] <L----D> do you often chech out the rss articles, like javaworld or something else
[10:05:19] <L----D> any nice ones about java
[10:05:48] <timerirq> guys why im learning java idoono
[10:05:57] <timerirq> all i wanna do is intranet app.s
[10:05:59] <timerirq> .)
[10:06:03] <Timmy02> omigosh
[10:06:05] <Timmy02> im so stupid
[10:06:06] *** kiwnix has quit IRC
[10:06:16] *** coups has joined ##java
[10:06:42] <timerirq> but if i cannot handle the events of explorer or netscape(like on_close ) what can java do for me
[10:07:04] <Timmy02> the reason its not connecting is that the server isnt creating the new server socket before the client attemps to connect!
[10:10:42] <Timmy02> AH HA!
[10:10:48] <Timmy02> it worked!
[10:22:22] *** asciii has joined ##java
[10:26:21] *** terence_ has quit IRC
[10:28:39] <roots-> L----D: you mean me ?
[10:28:48] <roots-> i work with clearcase, its so slow i read every news site on the web
[10:29:39] *** loqiu has joined ##java
[10:29:40] <roots-> slashdot, heise.de, javadesktop, javalobby, several newsgroups, clientjava, gotw (c++), artima, bbc, the sun (uk), cnn, n-tv, n24, spiegel, welt, faz, focus
[10:29:58] <roots-> to name just a few
[10:31:02] *** timerirq has quit IRC
[10:31:18] *** DemisM has joined ##java
[10:31:20] *** timerirq has joined ##java
[10:33:38] *** peeloo has joined ##java
[10:34:12] *** silasj has joined ##java
[10:36:51] *** elvin|coder has quit IRC
[10:36:52] *** peeloo has quit IRC
[10:37:21] *** silasj has joined ##java
[10:37:54] *** peeloo has joined ##java
[10:38:00] *** silasj has quit IRC
[10:39:55] *** Timmy02 has quit IRC
[10:41:30] <loqiu> i've problem about to stem st.nextToken() but it is still "stringindexoutofboundexception"
[10:42:03] *** peeloo has quit IRC
[10:42:54] <L----D> roots-, thanks, i just wanna know some nice sites about java
[10:43:12] <L----D> roots-, i will look up what you said
[10:43:20] *** chippy has joined ##java
[10:44:03] <roots-> javadesktop.org is nice
[10:44:28] *** DemisM has quit IRC
[10:45:30] <timerirq> can i handle the events of explorer or netscape or firefox via java?
[10:45:42] <timerirq> like when the user trys to close the window
[10:45:49] <timerirq> iwantto handle this signal
[10:45:55] <timerirq> i think i cannot do it via apllets
[10:46:00] <timerirq> can i?
[10:46:45] *** Timmy02 has joined ##java
[10:47:12] *** Lamex has quit IRC
[10:48:40] *** _kmh_ has joined ##java
[10:53:18] <loqiu> problem is when i stem the nextToken() by using class cariAkar, it's not processing
[10:56:02] <loqiu> i'not using PorterStemmer but using cariAkar to stem nextToken()
[10:58:57] *** coups has quit IRC
[11:01:45] *** loqiu has quit IRC
[11:03:13] <KingNato> timerirq: The applet gets notified when the browser wants it to go away, why do you need more?
[11:03:14] *** blackchat has joined ##java
[11:03:41] <timerirq> KingNato iwanna handle the browser
[11:04:04] *** blastnost has quit IRC
[11:04:11] <timerirq> not the applet that browser create
[11:04:16] <timerirq> anyway i found a program
[11:04:27] <timerirq> mozilla kiosk
[11:04:49] <timerirq> im looking it ...it provides a good env. for handling browser events
[11:06:02] *** Flibberdy has joined ##java
[11:10:23] *** blastnost has joined ##java
[11:10:28] <doc|work> I have a list of items in a jsp and to mark each as deleted, there's a checkbox. To undelete you uncheck the checkbox, is the best way to do this, from an OO point of view, iterate through all of the items comparing them against the list and uncheck as necessary, or to provide a method to undelete them all and then remark as deleted for each one as necessary?
[11:11:17] <Flibberdy> anyone here ever use a programming tool called DrJava?
[11:15:47] * teralaser undeletes all users in ##java and then remark as doc|home as deleted.
[11:16:02] <doc|work> :(
[11:16:12] * doc|work throws an Exception
[11:16:17] *** Lamex has joined ##java
[11:17:39] <teralaser> doc|work, maybe you should try to follow the old adage about separating a UI layer and a process layer ?
[11:17:50] <doc|work> teralaser: it is.
[11:17:53] <teralaser> (not a process layer, my brain buried the correct term)
[11:18:07] <teralaser> business logic !
[11:18:14] <doc|work> teralaser: jsp calls on the class to do what it needs to
[11:18:39] <teralaser> it just sounds imprudent to undelete them all...
[11:18:49] *** L----D has quit IRC
[11:18:52] <teralaser> Maybe halfway the machine would crash or something
[11:19:07] *** BULLE has joined ##java
[11:19:34] <doc|work> so iterating through the list eh? :/
[11:19:38] <doc|work> ok, thanks
[11:19:45] <teralaser> yeah
[11:20:01] <BULLE> is it sane to assume that you MUST call .dispose() on a swing component, for it to be garbage collected ?
[11:21:02] <teralaser> yeah, I believe so
[11:21:43] * teralaser once made a ("anti-pattern") piece code, that kept re-creating a new swing component again and again
[11:21:51] <teralaser> sloooow and consuming
[11:22:05] <BULLE> ye, normaly you would just hide it, and then show it again
[11:23:09] <roots-> nope
[11:23:14] <roots-> you dont have to invoke dipose
[11:23:22] <roots-> infact that method doesnt even exist on Component
[11:23:25] *** Folgore has quit IRC
[11:23:44] <roots-> it exists on Window and subclasses
[11:23:55] <BULLE> roots-: sorry, bad wording from me
[11:23:57] <roots-> Window,Frame,JWindow,JFrame,Dialog,JDialog
[11:24:00] <BULLE> roots-: its JDialogs im talking about
[11:24:11] <roots-> yeah invoking dipose() is recommended
[11:24:19] <roots-> it does a setVisible(false) or hide() too
[11:24:30] <BULLE> roots-: okies
[11:24:51] <BULLE> now, time for lunch
[11:24:53] <BULLE> roots-: thanks
[11:37:44] *** Lamex has quit IRC
[11:38:41] *** xzcvczx has quit IRC
[11:38:58] *** vate has joined ##java
[11:41:31] <_kmh_> well disposing a component wouldn't be a good idea (even if possible)
[11:42:01] <roots-> in swt you have to do it for most everything
[11:42:05] <roots-> images, colors, font, controls
[11:42:24] <_kmh_> well it releases the os resources
[11:42:35] <_kmh_> since swt is native code ...
[11:42:44] *** Flibberdy has left ##java
[11:42:46] <_kmh_> but swt is "evil" anyway
[11:50:32] <Eclipser> everything is evil
[11:50:34] *** timerirq has quit IRC
[11:54:22] *** berzerka has joined ##java
[11:59:56] *** init64 has quit IRC
[12:00:11] *** sanj has quit IRC
[12:00:21] *** init64 has joined ##java
[12:00:27] <init64> hello
[12:01:04] <Mazon> FN~_kmh_: since swt is native code ..<-- and AWT/Swing isn't ?
[12:01:08] <init64> it seems that under my linux java installation, opening a file beginning with "~/" always fails
[12:01:24] <init64> how can I avoid using ~/ and get something equivalent
[12:01:27] <init64> ?
[12:01:45] <Mazon> use /home/<user>/ ?
[12:02:34] <init64> Mazon : yes, but I don't know where users are supposed to be in... my client will be in /Users/something/, my linux is /home/otherthing
[12:02:43] <init64> Mazon : I want to get the $HOME parameter
[12:02:55] <init64> and it must be able to run under linux macosx and windows
[12:02:56] *** Bevin has joined ##java
[12:03:24] *** enervate has quit IRC
[12:03:28] *** Miko2 has quit IRC
[12:04:11] <init64> I think i have to get that with a system property call,right ?
[12:05:26] <Mazon> user.dir property probably
[12:05:56] <roots-> "user.home"
[12:06:04] <roots-> user.dir is the current working directory where you started the app
[12:09:04] <init64> yes it works
[12:11:58] *** dibblego has quit IRC
[12:14:29] *** Bevin has quit IRC
[12:20:33] *** cybereal has quit IRC
[12:21:49] *** b0gg1e has joined ##java
[12:22:11] <Timmy02> hey can someone help me with the following
[12:22:31] <Timmy02> http://rafb.net/paste/results/VaKc8638.html <-- Server side file transfer
[12:22:46] <Timmy02> http://rafb.net/paste/results/SnG46J39.html <--- client side file transfer
[12:23:01] <Timmy02> the server gets the file, creates the file
[12:23:12] <Timmy02> but doesnt write anything to it
[12:26:45] <roots-> close the stream
[12:26:47] <roots-> that also flushes
[12:26:56] <roots-> now your way of transmitting the filename is bound to fail
[12:27:36] <roots-> you also mess up encodings
[12:27:41] <roots-> man this is so wrong :)
[12:28:14] <ricky_clarkson> This code smells.
[12:28:23] <ricky_clarkson> From the first line.
[12:28:26] <roots-> indeed
[12:28:32] <roots-> your receive should look like this
[12:28:49] <ricky_clarkson> package serverBL;
[12:29:04] <ricky_clarkson>  is straight away a borkage of Java conventions.
[12:29:22] <ricky_clarkson> import something.*;
[12:30:23] <roots-> well its too much typing :)
[12:31:46] *** sanj has joined ##java
[12:34:56] *** Dargaard has joined ##java
[12:35:03] <Dargaard> hello all!
[12:36:42] <Dargaard> I have a j2me problem. With an application that sends, and receive SMS... I manage to send and receive first SMS, when i try to send the second i have an IO Exception : "Unable to send SMS message" Any ideea why?
[12:37:19] <BULLE> roots-: sorry for asking you, but in the sun java example, its quite often they use stuff like BufferedReader myReader = new BufferedReader( new FileReader( myFile ) ); and then only close myReader, not doing anything with the FileReader, is that fine ?
[12:37:25] <BULLE> roots-: same goes for writers
[12:37:43] <BULLE> roots-: from what i understood, calling close on the BufferedReader will not propagate the .close() call to the FileReader
[12:38:11] <roots-> it does call close on the wrapped streams/readers
[12:38:12] <roots-> so its fine
[12:38:18] <BULLE> Dargaard: you got a stack trace, and a detailed error message perhaps ? if so, examine that one, if not, then get hold of a nice stack trace
[12:38:18] <roots-> using FileReader is not ok though
[12:38:21] <roots-> that is ALWAYS wrong
[12:38:35] <roots-> BufferedReader is also often wrong, but thats another story :)
[12:38:43] <BULLE> roots-: oh, so it does call wrapped streams/readers ? i ever found exact info if it does or not
[12:38:50] <BULLE> roots-: hehe, so what should one use then ?
[12:38:56] <roots-> InputStreamReader
[12:39:05] <roots-> FileReader uses the system encoding, which is not really under your control
[12:39:24] <roots-> even if you take measures that it is, you then take away the user's choice of setting it and break other things
[12:39:28] <roots-> so dont use it
[12:39:46] <BULLE> i see
[12:40:06] <BULLE> i must admit all this character encoding stuff is something i have avoided, event though i know i should not
[12:40:14] <BULLE> utf8, utf32 etc, it all just crazy
[12:40:34] *** alesan has joined ##java
[12:40:35] <alesan> hi
[12:41:17] <roots-> hi alesan
[12:41:22] <roots-> BULLE: it is not
[12:41:29] <roots-> BULLE: if you dont know the encoding of a file you cannot load it
[12:41:37] <roots-> if you load it without specifying the encoding the loading is wrong
[12:42:07] <roots-> upon save its totally your choice, but keep in mind to document it, and keep in mind that some encodings cannot be roundtripped to unicode
[12:42:44] *** blackchat has quit IRC
[12:42:48] <roots-> BULLE: readers and writers convert, input/output stream don't
[12:43:13] *** blastnost has quit IRC
[12:43:18] *** gungnir has quit IRC
[12:43:23] *** StFS has quit IRC
[12:43:27] <Dargaard> BULLE the error is not throwened in simulator... I manage somehow to show it on my mobile... actualy i have something like: } Catch (IOException ioe) { str=ioe.getMessage();form.append(str) }
[12:43:47] *** csrmit has quit IRC
[12:43:51] <Dargaard> on simulator everything is working just fine
[12:44:06] *** vezzoni has joined ##java
[12:44:52] *** gungnir has joined ##java
[12:45:32] *** Timmy02 has quit IRC
[12:46:41] *** Rene_ has joined ##java
[12:49:18] *** ricky_clarkson has quit IRC
[12:49:23] *** Wufei|sleep is now known as Chang_Wufei
[12:49:50] *** ricky_clarkson has joined ##java
[12:50:53] *** StFS has joined ##java
[12:50:55] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: I just compiled a new version of screen in my home directory, trying it out.
[12:51:01] <ricky_clarkson> Yours is from 2002. ;)
[12:51:18] <ricky_clarkson> Hopefully it handles my flaky connection a little better.
[12:52:13] <ricky_clarkson> If anyone's interested, screen -d was simply not responding, after a short network downtime.
[12:52:27] <ohsix> screen -x 4lyfe
[12:52:39] <ricky_clarkson> I used to use that.
[12:53:37] *** Java_the_Hutt has joined ##java
[12:53:50] <Java_the_Hutt> exclusion process is successful but still i saw the folders as folders in the package layout (not as packages) how can i make them invisible
[12:54:03] <Java_the_Hutt> Hello, i am trying to exclude some folders from my projects
[12:54:07] <ricky_clarkson> Java_the_Hutt: What are you talking about?
[12:54:09] <Java_the_Hutt> in reverse order
[12:54:14] <Java_the_Hutt> sorry
[12:54:19] <ricky_clarkson> Yes, you seem to be talking in reverse order.
[12:54:21] <Java_the_Hutt> Problem with eclipse
[12:54:33] <Java_the_Hutt> i mean i am trying to exclude a folder
[12:54:39] <sanj> is there any way to know if a class has been loaded by the classloader from the commandline?
[12:54:44] <ricky_clarkson> Java_the_Hutt: Why?
[12:54:50] <ricky_clarkson> ~javadoc Class
[12:54:50] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, please see java.lang.Class: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Class.html
[12:55:06] <Dargaard> BULLE if you tell me how to print a stack trace on a mobile phone... That will be great... OR how to convert the stack trace message into a string... Otherwise i don't got the stack trace!!!!!
[12:55:31] <Java_the_Hutt> ricky_clarkson, because in my project layout: ,I have a main source folder and under that i have the projects, as project 1 project 2
[12:56:09] <Java_the_Hutt> now when i add link my main source folder to my project, i exclude the project 2 folder in project 1
[12:56:22] <ricky_clarkson> Java_the_Hutt: That seems daft, surely it is better to have source folders within projects, rather than projects within source folders.
[12:56:27] <Java_the_Hutt> so far it is ok. But i still see the project 2 folder in package explorer
[12:56:46] <ricky_clarkson> sdrawkcab edoc osla uoy taht smees tI
[12:57:04] <Java_the_Hutt> :)
[12:57:21] <Java_the_Hutt> well i am no arabic yet
[12:58:10] <ohsix> epyt ot emit gnol a uoy koot taht teb I
[12:58:35] <Java_the_Hutt> ricky_clarkson, i have several projects but i want it to be united under one package structure
[12:58:41] <ohsix> 31tor ot gniht tseb txen
[12:58:49] <Java_the_Hutt> i mean org.myOrganization.project1
[12:58:55] <Java_the_Hutt> org.myOrganization.project2
[12:58:58] <Java_the_Hutt> and so on
[12:59:07] <Java_the_Hutt> how can i do that in eclipse ?
[12:59:20] <ricky_clarkson> Java_the_Hutt: You can do that as two separate projects.
[12:59:34] <ricky_clarkson> Er, I think.
[12:59:47] <ricky_clarkson> I would not have the two projects sharing a source folder.
[12:59:47] <Java_the_Hutt> also i have some common framework used by both
[12:59:53] <Java_the_Hutt> a util package
[13:00:10] <ricky_clarkson> So you have 3 projects, therefore you should have 3 source folders.
[13:00:43] <Java_the_Hutt> ricflazz, may be you are right, i am trying to figure out the most optimal way. I searched out Eclipse help, and it offered me a solution like what i did. But i am dubious if it was optimal
[13:00:48] <ricky_clarkson> You might be able to fool Eclipse into thinking you're coding 'normally' with a load of symlinks.
[13:00:52] <heanol> i'm so tired of this soap crap
[13:00:53] <Java_the_Hutt> should be ricky_clarkson
[13:01:08] <ricky_clarkson> heanol: Try shampoo.
[13:01:19] *** b0fh_ua has joined ##java
[13:01:21] <heanol> compatible, yeah right.
[13:01:40] <b0fh_ua> hello! Is there some analog of back_iterator (C++ STL) in java?
[13:02:07] <ricky_clarkson> b0fh_ua: No, but you can a) write one b) reverse a list and iterate over that.
[13:02:37] <ricky_clarkson> b0fh_ua: You could wrap a ListIterator quite easily, just make next() call wrapped.previous() etc.
[13:03:11] <Java_the_Hutt> ricky_clarkson, yeah but is that smart way ?
[13:03:31] <ricky_clarkson> Java_the_Hutt: The smart way is to have one directory per project.
[13:03:41] <Java_the_Hutt> i mean what i am trying to do should be a very general pattern, and i am looking for a generl simple solution
[13:03:58] <ricky_clarkson> One directory per project.
[13:04:04] <Java_the_Hutt> ok ok
[13:04:16] <EcksEightySix> and if a project uses some stuff from another one, make a lib jar!
[13:04:22] *** doc|work has quit IRC
[13:04:38] <heanol> The requested resource requires registration
[13:04:51] <heanol> i fucking hate stupid article sites that only shows you one page then requires a registration
[13:05:04] <ricky_clarkson> heanol: bugmenot/bugmenot
[13:05:05] <EcksEightySix> ehehe is that "open source, only with free registration... oh and give us your CC number, just in case"
[13:05:15] *** b0fh_ua has left ##java
[13:05:18] <EcksEightySix> heanol, totally agreed with that
[13:05:44] <Java_the_Hutt> A second question
[13:05:55] <heanol> okay.. quick question.. does anyone know how i can specify my own wsdl file for a service with axis?
[13:05:55] <EcksEightySix> heanol, salon.com is even bitchier, it shows only a small part of the first page... before requesting registration. bastards!
[13:06:02] <Java_the_Hutt> Do you suggest using Hibernate for non enterprise applications ?
[13:06:21] *** doc|work has joined ##java
[13:07:36] <BULLE> Dargaard: .printStackTrace() dont exist on j2me exceptions ?
[13:07:55] <BULLE> i must admit i dont have j2me clues, i just stupidly tougt such a method would be there
[13:08:16] <heanol> i think it is but you can't see stdout/stderr stuff in a phone usually
[13:08:37] <heanol> i really wish phones would ship with a debug console for j2me applications
[13:09:42] <BULLE> heanol: so redirect the stuff to the screen ?
[13:10:00] <heanol> true, but sometimes that isnt possible
[13:10:05] <heanol> depends on how bad the app crashes ;-)
[13:10:15] <ricky_clarkson> Send it down your data cable?
[13:10:36] *** Chang_Wufei is now known as Wufei[school]
[13:10:44] <BULLE> heanol: write it to a file ? most devices allow you to store stuff on the phone, so write it down there ?
[13:10:49] <BULLE> heanol: then reboot phone, and read it,
[13:10:59] <BULLE> heanol: but true, if the phone completely locks up, its not that much you can do
[13:11:45] <ricky_clarkson> Is Java really crashing a whole phone?
[13:11:53] <heanol> ricky_clarkson, i've seen it happen many times
[13:12:10] <ricky_clarkson> Glad to see that C can still compete. ;)
[13:12:13] <heanol> BULLE, well there's record store yes..
[13:12:16] <heanol> ricky_clarkson, :)
[13:12:43] <heanol> j2me is bleh..
[13:13:03] <BULLE> heanol: ye, thats the thingy i was thinking about
[13:18:11] <Java_the_Hutt> Do you suggest using Hibernate for non enterprise applications, anyone ?
[13:18:41] <roots-> whats not enterprise ?
[13:18:47] <heanol> Java_the_Hutt, kind of.
[13:18:51] <roots-> why not use OJB instead ?
[13:19:08] <heanol> hibernate is good.. but can have performance issues..
[13:20:10] <Java_the_Hutt> roots-, my application uses a DB but not need transactions and tiers and so on
[13:20:48] <Java_the_Hutt> roots-, what is QJB ?
[13:21:03] <roots-> OJB
[13:21:12] <roots-> ~ojb
[13:21:12] <Java_the_Hutt> oh
[13:21:12] <javabot> roots-, I have no idea what ojb is.
[13:21:47] <Dargaard> BULLE IT IS ON J2ME... BUT IT A VOID AND A MOBILE DOESN'T HAVE A CONSOLE TO LOOK INTO AND SEE WHAT THE HELL PRINTS THERE... ITS POINTLESS IN J2ME... I CAN SEE THE CONSOLE OF A SIMULATED MOBILE... BUT A MOBILE DEVICE DOESN'T HAVE CONSOLE... .printStackTrace() PRINTS IN A CONSOLE... CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?
[13:22:09] <BULLE> Dargaard: actualy, printStackTrace prints to whatever stream you gives it
[13:22:24] <Java_the_Hutt> roots-, what is the advantage over Hibernate ?
[13:22:45] <Dargaard> BULLE you don't seem to understand... what i'm saying...
[13:22:55] <Dargaard> Could someone explain BULLE?
[13:23:07] <Dargaard> any j2me programmers around here?
[13:23:09] <BULLE> Dargaard: you surely have some sort of stream in j2me, right ?
[13:23:38] <BULLE> Dargaard: and yes, i seem to not understand the problem, thats for sure
[13:23:43] <Dargaard> printStackTrace is a void that doesn't return anything
[13:23:54] <BULLE> aha, thanks for explaining that, now i can stfu
[13:24:00] <BULLE> but hey
[13:24:06] <BULLE> it doesnt return anything in normal java either
[13:24:22] <BULLE> it prints to a PrintStream or a PrintWriter
[13:24:25] <Dargaard> STF...
[13:24:29] <Dargaard> roman esti?
[13:24:34] <Dargaard> SP
[13:24:36] <BULLE> Dargaard: jag pratar bara svenska
[13:24:44] <BULLE> oh well, i will just stfu
[13:24:55] <Java_the_Hutt> I suppose this is the answer http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ObjectRelationalToolComparison
[13:25:24] <Dargaard> BULLE you are a Java Microedition programmer?
[13:25:28] <Dargaard> yes or no?
[13:25:46] <BULLE> Dargaard: i have written a few silly small things, thats all
[13:26:15] <Dargaard> well shut up please... and let a programmer in j2me to help
[13:26:33] <Dargaard> you could not see the console on a mobile device
[13:26:39] <BULLE> Dargaard: i KNOW
[13:26:44] <BULLE> Dargaard: thats why i suggest that you dont print to console
[13:26:45] <Dargaard> no you don't know
[13:27:06] <Dargaard> print is only for CONSOLE
[13:27:13] <Dargaard> ;)
[13:28:50] <ricky_clarkson> Dargaard: Please don't tell people to shut up.  BULLE's speaking doesn't stop other people from speaking.
[13:28:55] *** alesan has quit IRC
[13:29:26] *** Rene_ has quit IRC
[13:29:39] <BULLE> i wasnt just aware that they have crippled the Exception interface heavily in j2me
[13:30:26] <BULLE> or Throwable i guess it is
[13:30:43] <Dargaard> ricky_clarkson Man... i was reffering to stop talkin with me, becouse he doesn't seem to understand... That exception... and particulary stackTraceMethod is used for CONSOLE only!!!!
[13:31:11] <Dargaard> and the mobile device doesn't have a console...
[13:31:30] *** Timmy02 has joined ##java
[13:31:46] <ricky_clarkson> Dargaard: In JSE you can dump an exeption to an arbitrary, er, PrintStream.
[13:32:09] <Dargaard> ricky_clarkson i was talking about J2ME
[13:32:18] <Timmy02> hey guys, how do u get java to start windows app?
[13:32:23] *** Mc_Fly has joined ##java
[13:32:26] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Timmy02 about runtime.exec
[13:32:26] <javabot> Timmy02, runtime.exec is A way of running external processes from java, or see http://javafaq.mine.nu/lookup?110
[13:32:32] <Dargaard> i know you can print anything you want in jSe console
[13:32:38] <Timmy02> cheer
[13:32:42] <Timmy02> cheers*
[13:32:44] <ricky_clarkson> Dargaard: I'm not talking about the c`onsole.  AT ALL.
[13:32:57] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Dargaard about javadoc Throwable
[13:32:57] <javabot> Dargaard, please see java.lang.Throwable: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Throwable.html
[13:33:27] <ricky_clarkson> What do you suppose this method is for: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Throwable.html#printStackTrace(java.io.PrintWriter)
[13:33:40] <ricky_clarkson> Why bother with a parameter?  Hmm?
[13:34:23] * ricky_clarkson has two coffees inside him and is ready to face the world.
[13:34:29] <ricky_clarkson> Or the toilet, whichever comes first.
[13:34:34] *** Java_the_Hutt has quit IRC
[13:35:34] *** Aquila_Deus has quit IRC
[13:35:36] <Drone> That URL gave the following error: java.net.ConnectException, Connection timed out
[13:37:57] *** init64 has quit IRC
[13:38:19] *** {Mike} has joined ##java
[13:38:52] <{Mike}> can you implement multiple interfaces for one class?
[13:39:13] <ricky_clarkson> I can, yes.
[13:39:58] <{Mike}> :p
[13:40:11] <{Mike}> is it possible to implement multiple interfaces for one class, and if so, how?
[13:40:30] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell {Mike} about interfaces
[13:40:30] <javabot> {Mike}, interfaces is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/interpack/createinterface.html
[13:41:05] <BULLE> {Mike}: class MyClass extends MyBaseClass implements MyFirstInterface, MySecondInterface, MyThirdInterface { //code goes here }
[13:41:28] *** ijoyce has quit IRC
[13:41:38] <ricky_clarkson> Rather stupidly, that tutorial doesn't mention multiple interfaces.
[13:41:51] <{Mike}> thanks BULLE
[13:42:06] <{Mike}> twas just the syntax I was confused about
[13:43:18] <ricky_clarkson> Note that the JLS is a good place to look for syntax, but it isn't the easiest thing to read.
[13:43:21] <ricky_clarkson> ~jls
[13:43:21] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, jls is The Java Language Specification: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/
[13:50:09] *** Dargaard has quit IRC
[13:51:03] *** leahpar_on has joined ##java
[13:58:39] *** auv has joined ##java
[14:07:09] *** Timmy02 has quit IRC
[14:08:15] *** conan has joined ##java
[14:16:41] *** jor has joined ##java
[14:19:38] *** bruzza has joined ##java
[14:19:42] <bruzza> hai?
[14:19:58] *** npmccallum-work has joined ##java
[14:20:02] <bruzza> hey JSTL question, im passing in a paramter from (say 1.jsp to 2.jsp) called rec.. and i want to do something like String blah=rec; in 2.jsp
[14:23:21] *** vezzoni has quit IRC
[14:23:49] *** pchapman has quit IRC
[14:24:45] *** horros has joined ##java
[14:26:56] *** amphiboid has joined ##java
[14:29:10] <bruzza> hey JSTL question, im passing in a paramter from (say 1.jsp to 2.jsp) called rec.. and i want to do something like String blah=rec; in 2.jsp
[14:32:23] <ricky_clarkson> Thanks for repeating!
[14:35:18] *** sandstorm has joined ##java
[14:35:59] <bruzza> np
[14:36:02] <bruzza> thanks for answering
[14:36:03] <bruzza> :@
[14:37:13] <sandstorm> whats the difference between JTextField and JTextArea
[14:37:28] *** csrmit has joined ##java
[14:39:55] *** gothtec has joined ##java
[14:40:03] <roots-> 1 line vs multi line
[14:40:16] *** jogo_sf_ has joined ##java
[14:48:46] *** golya has joined ##java
[14:50:25] <ricky_clarkson> *yawn*
[14:50:54] <ricky_clarkson> assertFalse(SwingUtilities.isEventDispatchThread()); very useful.
[14:52:24] *** auv has quit IRC
[14:54:06] *** berzerka has quit IRC
[14:54:19] <golya> Hi! How can I access a static field via reflection from a static method?
[14:54:47] <golya> OR how can I get the class object from a static method?
[14:54:53] <ricky_clarkson> TheClass.class
[14:54:58] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell golya about reflection
[14:54:58] <javabot> golya, reflection is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/reflect
[14:55:09] <ricky_clarkson> Note that reflection is an antipattern.
[14:55:14] <golya> thx
[14:55:28] <golya> antipattern?
[14:55:45] <ricky_clarkson> Yes, it means that it is likely to cause problems.
[14:56:02] *** Aradorn has joined ##java
[14:57:04] <golya> ah
[15:00:10] <_kmh_> pattern dogma
[15:00:15] *** wms has joined ##java
[15:00:28] <ricky_clarkson> makes for pattern karma.
[15:00:50] *** sandstorm|away has joined ##java
[15:01:54] *** apix has joined ##java
[15:02:07] <jogo_sf_> Does anybody know if there is a free MIDP 2.0 emulator that runs as an applet ?
[15:02:17] <_kmh_> why is reflection an anti pattern anyway ?
[15:03:17] <ricky_clarkson> Because it is circumventing compile-time type-safety, and hence causes the same problems as dynamic languages do.
[15:04:15] <Mazon> but used correctly -  reflection can be very powerfull
[15:04:26] <ricky_clarkson> So can goto.
[15:04:34] <Mazon> particularly calling private methods ;)
[15:04:51] <ricky_clarkson> That's abuse.
[15:05:00] <Mazon> yes - but you can mimick the behaviour of goto - can't do that with reflection
[15:05:18] <Mazon> well, sun can just make their methods public instead of private then
[15:05:42] <roots-> you can work your way around it for certain
[15:05:42] <ricky_clarkson> If you call private methods you are breaking encapsulation, and asking for problems.
[15:05:42] <Mazon> In my case - I *needed* to call that method, it was the only one that had the info
[15:05:51] <_kmh_> ricky_clarkson : and would that be an anti-pattern ?
[15:05:53] <ricky_clarkson> Mazon: What was the case?
[15:06:01] <Mazon> yup - quite aware of that - but no other way to get the info needed
[15:06:04] <Mazon> 2 secs
[15:06:05] <ricky_clarkson> _kmh_: If you like.
[15:06:14] <_kmh_> ricky_clarkson : or do you consider dynamic languages per se as an anti-pattern ?
[15:07:19] *** Ulgar has joined ##java
[15:07:44] <sockmonk> _kmh_ one could probably argue that breaking type safety in java is bad practice, just like trying to force perl to have strong type checking between integers, floats and strings would be bad practice
[15:08:05] <sockmonk> in both cases, you would be using the language contrary to its designers' intentions
[15:08:26] <Mazon> ricky_clarkson:protected String findLibrary(String libname) - in Classloader, specifically Java Webstart Classloader
[15:08:28] <ricky_clarkson> _kmh_: I do, as it happens, and the only way that's going to change is if the dynamic language can do ahead-of-time type checking at runtime.
[15:08:32] <_kmh_> sockmonk : true, however that assumes a certain programming paradigm/style for java
[15:08:34] <Mazon> so it was protected
[15:08:39] <Mazon> brb
[15:08:49] <ricky_clarkson> Mazon: Does URLClassLoader not have that?
[15:09:16] <roots-> if you extend a class you can widen visibilty
[15:09:17] <sockmonk> _kmh_: it certainly does.
[15:09:24] <Aradorn> why does the language need it at run time? If you insure type safety at compile time this shouldnt be a problem
[15:09:27] <roots-> eg turn protected to public
[15:10:15] <ricky_clarkson> Aradorn: That would be my only way of accepting dynamic languages.
[15:10:33] <Aradorn> ok stupid question: what are some dynamic languages?
[15:10:39] <ricky_clarkson> Perl, Python, Ruby.
[15:10:41] <_kmh_> ricky_clarkson : every problem has its tool
[15:10:47] <Aradorn> ah ok
[15:11:17] *** teralaser has quit IRC
[15:11:19] <ricky_clarkson> Every tool has its problem.
[15:11:20] <_kmh_> ricky_clarkson : i depends on the problem whether rdynamic makes sense or not. there's no general answer imho
[15:11:34] <ricky_clarkson> imho there is a general answer.
[15:11:44] <_kmh_> ricky_clarkson : yes and that includes compilers
[15:11:45] <sockmonk> ricky_clarkson: what do you think of java scripting languages like groovy or beanshell?
[15:11:56] <Aradorn> Im starting to learn ocaml which is really neat because it is strongly typed and has polymorphism. Two things I havnt really dealt with before
[15:12:00] <ricky_clarkson> sockmonk: I wouldn't use them for anything serious.
[15:12:09] <_kmh_> ricky_clarkson : i don't think so
[15:12:30] <_kmh_> ricky_clarkson: and definitely not in practical terms
[15:12:54] <sockmonk> not even small scripts to tie together some actual java apps?
[15:13:43] <sockmonk> ricky_clarkson: ever do any shell scripting? those shell scripts don't have type safety either.
[15:13:56] <ricky_clarkson> _kmh_: I don't mind the idea of dynamic typing, but I want assurance that my method calls will work.
[15:13:56] <[GT]Kane> I can't get java to work :P
[15:14:16] <_kmh_> [GT]Kane : go c# then :-P
[15:14:20] <[GT]Kane> boo
[15:14:23] <ricky_clarkson> sockmonk: Yes, and I wouldn't use bash for anything serious.
[15:14:40] <_kmh_> [GT]Kane : ok compromise go delphi
[15:15:08] <sockmonk> if by serious you mean the size or complexity of the script, I'd probably agree with you
[15:15:29] *** Trixsey|Laptop has quit IRC
[15:15:30] <jogo_sf_> is there a special MIDP channel somewhere ?
[15:16:55] <ricky_clarkson> For retarded users?
[15:17:28] <jogo_sf_> no, for retarded programmers ;-)
[15:18:20] <golya> sockmonk: Type safety? I'm not excited. NullPointerException sucks
[15:18:38] <jogo_sf_> who cannot afford a big PC for running java but only a small phone ...
[15:18:50] <Aradorn> lol
[15:19:07] *** bruzza has quit IRC
[15:19:12] <Aradorn> im still waiting for the java remote
[15:19:13] <Aradorn> =\
[15:19:21] <Aradorn> and toaster
[15:19:32] <jogo_sf_> and shoes
[15:19:40] *** sandstorm has quit IRC
[15:20:27] *** Xgc has joined ##java
[15:20:36] <Aradorn> lol
[15:21:00] <Aradorn> dude i got the new java 10.5 nikes today
[15:21:16] <ricky_clarkson> They're really 1.7.2 in disguise.
[15:21:23] <Aradorn> lol
[15:21:52] *** joered has joined ##java
[15:22:06] <ricky_clarkson> Is a 0.0.0.0 netmask legal
[15:22:32] <Aradorn> i would think so
[15:22:42] <ricky_clarkson> But not a 0.0.0.0 IP, right?
[15:22:47] <Aradorn> right
[15:23:09] *** Trixsey|Laptop has joined ##java
[15:24:03] <Mazon> ricky: I can't extend nor use my own classloader - since it's in the LWJGL library - so the user of the library can have altered the class loader in any number of ways
[15:24:57] <Mazon> but yes - we are aware of the issues that can arise by its use - there just isn't any way around it - we *need* that path :)
[15:26:08] *** sandstorm|away has quit IRC
[15:28:07] *** alesan has joined ##java
[15:30:05] *** Tartaros has joined ##java
[15:30:28] <ricky_clarkson> Mazon: Is the package sealed?
[15:30:50] <Mazon> webstart ?
[15:31:08] <ricky_clarkson> Wherever the class is that has this protected method.
[15:31:14] <Mazon> no idea
[15:31:29] <Mazon> it's the classloader installed by Java webstart
[15:31:34] <ricky_clarkson> You can access a protected method from the same package as its class is in.
[15:32:01] <Mazon> yes, but that would require me to replace the webstart class loader with my own
[15:32:10] *** apix has quit IRC
[15:33:05] <Mazon> which would make me dependent on java webstart and fail if the user replaces the loader too - before I get a chance
[15:33:44] <roots-> why ?
[15:33:46] <Mazon> but if the user replaces the loader I could be screwed in many ways, so scrathc that point
[15:33:54] <roots-> classloaders delegate to parents
[15:34:01] <roots-> what are you actually trying to do ?
[15:34:15] <Mazon> calling findLibrary on the webstart loader
[15:34:30] <roots-> why ?
[15:34:41] <Mazon> coz I need it to load dll's in JNI code
[15:35:09] <roots-> and that implies calling that method ?
[15:35:13] <Mazon> yes
[15:35:26] <Mazon> usually one would load a jni dll by System.loadLibrary
[15:35:30] <roots-> you could just invoke System.loadLibrary
[15:35:34] <roots-> from jni
[15:35:40] <Mazon> but if that dll also had to load a dll, then you're screwed
[15:35:52] <Mazon> no - coz the two dll's may be placed in different places
[15:35:54] <roots-> no, it would load its dependencies automatically
[15:35:57] <Mazon> according to webstart cache
[15:36:09] <roots-> then configure the paths
[15:36:12] <Mazon> the dll loaded from native code is NOT jni
[15:36:22] <Mazon> well, you can't really
[15:36:27] <Mazon> since you have no idea where the dll is
[15:36:34] <Mazon> webstart decides that
[15:36:38] <roots-> its system dependent
[15:36:42] <Mazon> yes
[15:36:44] <roots-> but findLibrary wont change this
[15:36:49] <Mazon> sure it does
[15:36:52] <Mazon> works fine
[15:37:07] <Mazon> it gives the exact path on  linux, win32 and mac - so yes, it works
[15:37:12] <Mazon> and has done so for a year or so ;)
[15:37:32] <roots-> and then you do a dlopen ?
[15:37:37] <Mazon> yup
[15:37:38] <roots-> natively ?
[15:37:41] <Mazon> yes
[15:38:03] <Mazon> we invoke findLibrary and pass the path to jni which then loads it
[15:39:07] <roots-> so what classloader is that ?
[15:39:11] *** shadewind has joined ##java
[15:39:16] <roots-> that returns the full path for you ?
[15:39:24] <shadewind> is there some method to compare two arrays?
[15:39:36] <Mazon> the webstart classloader
[15:39:44] *** littlezoper has joined ##java
[15:39:53] <Mazon> whenever you launch via a .jnlp file
[15:40:14] <Mazon> a normal classloader doesn't work - but thats ok, since we have control over paths there
[15:40:22] <roots-> ok so it works :)
[15:40:25] <roots-> whats the problem then ?
[15:40:38] <Mazon> that we use reflection to call protected methods
[15:40:43] <Mazon> which is "unclean"
[15:41:09] <Mazon> but sometimes you're forced to do some dirty code
[15:41:23] <Mazon> but if the findLibrary method were publix all of this wouldn't be an issue
[15:41:48] <roots-> is the webstart classloader non final ?
[15:41:59] <roots-> you can extend it and set protected to public
[15:42:04] <roots-> or put somethingn in the same package
[15:42:45] <roots-> the later sucks
[15:43:15] <Mazon> well, we don't want to be dependent on webstart classes - kinda hard to gcj ;)
[15:43:42] <Mazon> we try to avoid any awt/sun specific in the src
[15:43:52] <Mazon> makes it a lot cleaner
[15:43:57] <amphiboid> shadewind: check the Javadoc for Arrays.equals()
[15:45:17] <roots-> if you rely on the webstart classloader to do it for you, you are relying on that stuff anyhow
[15:46:25] <cheeser> javabot: forget nutz
[15:46:26] <javabot> I forgot about nutz, cheeser.
[15:47:38] <Mazon> roots: we dont - we rely on Classloader - which has the method, but when run in a webstart environemnt is a webstart class loader
[15:47:39] *** golya has left ##java
[15:48:21] <roots-> in a non webstart environment you could get back a null
[15:48:25] <roots-> i just checked ClassLoader
[15:48:31] <Mazon> yes
[15:48:36] <Mazon> but we expect that
[15:48:46] <Mazon> and have full controll of the path in that case
[15:49:01] <roots-> yeah if you feed dlopen an abs path it will load right there
[15:49:08] <roots-> otherwise it will consult ld.so for paths
[15:49:17] <roots-> eg ld.so.conf paths and LD_LIBRARY_PATH paths
[15:49:22] <{Mike}> If I have a BufferedReader reading a FileReader, and call .toString(); will it output the whole file as a string?
[15:49:38] <roots-> {Mike}: i doubt it
[15:49:54] <{Mike}> roots-: I thought not either, too easy :(
[15:50:08] *** sandstorm has joined ##java
[15:50:40] <roots-> {Mike}: you could write the contents into a CharArrayWriter and get a string from there trivially
[15:50:49] <roots-> but you must mind the encoding of the file you are reading
[15:51:35] <{Mike}> roots-: write the contents of the File, or the BufferedRead option?
[15:51:39] <{Mike}> object, not option
[15:51:57] <roots-> ~io
[15:51:57] <javabot> roots-, io is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/essential/io
[15:52:02] <roots-> {Mike}: read that url :)
[15:52:25] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: I keep having to 'power detach' screen.
[15:52:36] <ricky_clarkson> That takes ages.
[15:52:46] <sandstorm> whats the difference between JTextField and JTextArea
[15:52:53] *** enervate has joined ##java
[15:52:55] <ricky_clarkson> sandstorm: roots- answered that.
[15:53:06] <sandstorm> sorry i got disconnected
[15:53:12] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: weird
[15:53:16] <sandstorm> could not see that.
[15:53:37] <ricky_clarkson> sandstorm: field is one line, area is many.
[15:53:38] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: using putty ?
[15:53:45] <ricky_clarkson> Yep.
[15:53:54] <sandstorm> is that the only difference?
[15:53:56] <sandstorm> omg.
[15:53:57] <roots-> same thing with other terms ?
[15:54:01] <ricky_clarkson> I'd use xterm, but I need to fiddle with fonts.
[15:54:03] <roots-> eg rxvt + ssh ?
[15:54:11] <ricky_clarkson> I'll try xterm next time.
[15:54:17] <roots-> rxvt is nice, runs without x in cygwin
[15:54:35] <ricky_clarkson> I noticed.
[15:54:40] <ricky_clarkson> I don't mind X running though.
[15:54:48] <{Mike}> putty is nice
[15:54:58] <{Mike}> you can use puttycyg to run cygwin terminals
[15:55:01] <ricky_clarkson> There was something strange about rxvt, perhaps it displayed ? instead of Unicode or something.
[15:55:14] <pr3d4t0r> Good morning.
[15:55:18] *** silasj has joined ##java
[15:55:21] <silasj> hello all
[15:55:24] *** oxez has quit IRC
[15:55:26] <Terr1> I cannot get insert to work while using preparedStatement p = connection.prepareStatement("INSERT ... '?'); p.setString(1,"Test"); I get a No parameters defined during prepareCall() Exception? any ideas?
[15:55:47] <cheeser> javabot: tell Terr1 about show us
[15:55:47] <javabot> Terr1, Paste the code in the pastebin where we can see it.  See the topic (/topic) for details.
[15:56:51] <Terr1> Aha... you arn allowed to use '?' even if u insert strings only ?
[15:56:58] <Terr1> works without..
[15:57:01] <silasj> people, I'd like to ask if there is some experience of a "meeting" program, like Skype, in Java, using webcam too. Some kind of videoconference. Is it possible to do with Java?
[15:57:24] <ricky_clarkson> silasj: google
[15:57:32] <ricky_clarkson> java video conference
[15:57:41] <silasj> ok... all right ;)
[15:58:01] <BULLE> what about video/sound api for java ?
[15:58:10] <cheeser> Terr1: yes, you are allowed to ?
[15:58:11] <BULLE> eg, play video api, that supports some sort of pluggble codecs etc
[15:58:14] * ricky_clarkson looks at his mail, a Be My Google card from silasj.
[15:58:22] <ricky_clarkson> BULLE: teh google.
[15:58:23] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: unicode ? the world speaks english or german
[15:58:36] <{Mike}> lol
[15:58:38] *** YD has joined ##java
[15:58:43] <roots-> let me check the number of articles on wikipedia again
[15:58:46] <Terr1> cheeser, yeah problem was when using preparedStatements '' around strings arnt allowed .. at least around ? statement
[15:59:24] <roots-> yipp, www.wikipedia.org pretty much says that english and german matter the rest doesnt
[15:59:44] <roots-> swedish is overrepresented for real
[15:59:55] <axxo> german only mathers becuase germans don't speak english
[16:00:09] *** apix has joined ##java
[16:00:10] <ricky_clarkson> Germans do speak English.
[16:00:25] <roots-> sad is trrrooo
[16:01:08] <silasj> Come on, there is a lot of people who speak other languages. Portuguese in my case.
[16:01:17] <silasj> Unicode is so important for a lot of people.
[16:01:26] <roots-> obrigado una superbock
[16:02:37] * silasj knows his English is bad, but it's being improving
[16:02:43] <silasj> s/improving/improved
[16:02:51] <ricky_clarkson> mi espanol es mejor ahora.
[16:04:08] <silasj> mi espanol es muy mal ;)
[16:04:19] *** Chmmr has quit IRC
[16:04:54] <hatOFF> ich spreche deutsch, and a little english... y habla tambien un poco espanol :)
[16:05:17] *** Lamex has joined ##java
[16:06:15] *** Lamex has joined ##java
[16:10:10] *** conan has quit IRC
[16:10:15] *** eidolon has joined ##java
[16:10:59] *** mlic has joined ##java
[16:12:07] *** vate has quit IRC
[16:14:29] <roots->
[16:14:34] <ricky_clarkson>
[16:14:39] <ricky_clarkson> #whitespace ?
[16:14:49] <roots-> not   sure
[16:15:16] <ricky_clarkson> me e n e tith e r r rrr
[16:15:27] *** Lamex has quit IRC
[16:15:48] <roots->  /me puts   some  whitespace on   e bay
[16:15:52] *** gelignite has joined ##java
[16:16:16] <ricky_clarkson> With free air guitar.
[16:16:37] <roots-> electric ?
[16:16:57] <ricky_clarkson> Hopefully.
[16:17:50] * ricky_clarkson goes to meet the old gf, in the knowledge that the new one will accept the inevitable.
[16:18:08] <roots-> barrington levy on the radio++
[16:20:24] *** hatOFF has quit IRC
[16:20:36] *** jogo_sf_ has quit IRC
[16:22:01] *** Fox_1_ has joined ##java
[16:23:07] *** Tac has quit IRC
[16:26:33] *** apix has quit IRC
[16:29:06] *** apix has joined ##java
[16:32:39] *** geli has quit IRC
[16:35:06] *** CowwoC has joined ##java
[16:36:03] *** fab31 has joined ##java
[16:37:56] *** eidolon has quit IRC
[16:40:26] *** dover has joined ##java
[16:46:07] *** timofeyc has joined ##java
[16:46:22] *** Lamex has joined ##java
[16:46:37] *** joev has joined ##java
[16:49:22] *** Lamex has quit IRC
[16:49:25] *** Mazon is now known as mazon
[16:49:32] *** Lamex has joined ##java
[16:49:51] *** Lamex has joined ##java
[16:51:34] *** Cow_woC has quit IRC
[16:51:55] *** jogo_sf_ has joined ##java
[16:52:37] *** philosophia has joined ##java
[16:52:39] <philosophia> hi
[16:53:04] *** lobz has quit IRC
[16:53:21] *** apix has quit IRC
[16:53:36] <[GT]Kane> anyone know of a ftp search or somthing try find a direct to this "j2sdk-1_4_2_07-linux-i586.bin"
[16:53:45] <cheeser> [GT]Kane: there is none.
[16:53:59] <cheeser> no legal one anyway
[16:54:19] <[GT]Kane> so how does one get onto there server
[16:54:20] <[GT]Kane> lol
[16:55:25] *** Lamex has quit IRC
[16:56:07] *** JViz has joined ##java
[16:56:33] <cheeser> use a browser?
[16:56:53] <cheeser> [GT]Kane: if you're *still* trying to get that VM installed, i'm gonna have to brain you...
[16:57:01] *** amphiboid has quit IRC
[16:57:56] <pr3d4t0r> cheeser: I believe the "T" stands for "troll".
[16:58:09] <pr3d4t0r> cheeser: Maybe it's just me.
[16:58:26] *** negnoire101 has joined ##java
[16:58:38] <[GT]Kane> it's always just you :P
[16:58:39] <negnoire101> negnoire101: test
[16:59:45] <jor> and the 'G' for Grandmaster?
[17:02:24] * [GT]Kane dances
[17:02:39] *** Wi has joined ##java
[17:04:24] <[GT]Kane> anyone ever play around with solar panals?
[17:04:37] <[GT]Kane> I wanted make a setup enough to be able to run my laptop lol
[17:05:27] <cheeser> yeah.  you need that extra power trying to find a way around the simple answer we gave you days ago.  that's powerful work.
[17:05:59] <jor> use a very powerfull desk lamp ;)
[17:06:39] *** dover has quit IRC
[17:07:02] *** philosophia has quit IRC
[17:09:27] *** omay has joined ##java
[17:10:33] *** shadewind has quit IRC
[17:10:40] *** Lamex has joined ##java
[17:13:05] *** papaJohn has joined ##java
[17:13:13] <papaJohn> hi guys
[17:13:23] <cheeser> oi!
[17:13:29] <silasj> Oi.
[17:13:34] <papaJohn> i'm looking for tool to cross reference java source code
[17:14:12] <littlezoper> better ingredients.  better pizza!
[17:14:12] <cheeser> like javadoc?
[17:14:23] <cheeser> mmmm.  pizza.  <drool/>
[17:14:52] <littlezoper> cheeser: dan marino's pimping Papa John's now.
[17:15:01] <littlezoper> but you probably saw that 1,000 times during MNF ;)
[17:15:25] <cheeser> i saw that.
[17:15:35] <littlezoper> that commercial got OLD
[17:16:08] <littlezoper> man...the colts just came to life, didn't they :P
[17:16:16] <cheeser> yeah, they did.
[17:16:17] <cheeser> w00t!
[17:16:20] <littlezoper> yup
[17:16:31] <littlezoper> rocky calmus plays for the colts now
[17:16:31] <papaJohn> well  I need to see all calls of the function in the code
[17:16:49] <roots-> eclipse
[17:16:51] <roots-> will do
[17:17:02] <papaJohn> a plugin ?
[17:17:07] <roots-> no eclipse itself
[17:17:15] <papaJohn> cool
[17:17:20] <roots-> move your cursor on the function name and press ctrl + shift + g
[17:17:42] <papaJohn> perfect, thanks roots and eclipse :)
[17:18:19] <roots-> vi
[17:18:21] <roots-> ~vi
[17:18:21] <javabot> roots-, vi is http://www.io.com/~dierdorf/vi-emacs2.jpg
[17:18:26] <roots-> that is sooo hillarious
[17:19:08] <cheeser> littlezoper: ooh, does he?
[17:19:49] <littlezoper> cheeser: yeah... i didn't see him on the field, but I'd heard he was traded
[17:19:59] <littlezoper> which is good, cua the titans aren't doing much last I saw :P
[17:21:55] *** apix has joined ##java
[17:23:26] *** mazon is now known as Mazon
[17:25:58] <[GT]Kane> where can I find
[17:25:59] <[GT]Kane> glibc-common-2.3.2-4.80.8.amd64.rpm
[17:26:09] *** cored has joined ##java
[17:26:17] <cored> hi guys
[17:26:30] <cored> can something tell me a good open source project managment software ?
[17:26:35] *** Lars_G has joined ##java
[17:27:12] <Lars_G> Holy canoly, 172 users
[17:27:30] <lunk> mmmm
[17:29:20] *** nwo has left ##java
[17:29:30] <cored> no one
[17:29:31] <cored> ?
[17:31:11] <jor> cored: this is ##java, so you want one written in java?
[17:31:35] <jor> otherwise I'd suggest vi and a file called TODO ;p
[17:31:38] <cored> jor: it dosen't matter
[17:31:45] <cored> jor: :-)
[17:31:51] <jogo_sf_> cored: try ganttproject
[17:31:54] <cored> jor: i need something for centralized jobs on the entire team
[17:31:57] <Lars_G> What's he looking for?
[17:32:00] <cored> ganttproject ok
[17:32:24] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Thank you dude, thank you so much!!! You where part of the persons who convinced me to go mac, and I'm so horribly happy
[17:32:33] <Lars_G> Ahh Gantt charts?
[17:33:33] * pr3d4t0r bows
[17:33:52] *** leahpar_on has quit IRC
[17:34:01] *** vezzoni has joined ##java
[17:34:02] <cored> lo pr3d4t0r
[17:34:17] <cored> pr3d4t0r: what do you use for managing your team of programmers ?
[17:34:24] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Isn't it nice to have everything you need in one place, without having to put up with shitty UIs (Linux/KDE/Gnome) or deal with instability (Windows)?
[17:34:31] <pr3d4t0r> cored: A bit stick.
[17:35:34] <cheeser> i like KDE
[17:35:35] *** papaJohn has quit IRC
[17:35:55] <pr3d4t0r> s/bit/big/
[17:35:57] <jcscoobyrs> I like KDE too.
[17:35:58] <littlezoper> KDE is the bees knees
[17:36:40] <jor> KDE sucks
[17:36:45] * jor runs away
[17:36:57] <roots-> ~vi
[17:36:58] <javabot> roots-, vi is http://www.io.com/~dierdorf/vi-emacs2.jpg
[17:37:03] <roots-> thats says it all
[17:37:11] <roots-> s/^thats/that/
[17:37:20] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: yes it is, it's also nice to have a good selection of commercial software and the possibility of compiling 90% of OSS too
[17:37:30] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: And expose is so confortable to use!
[17:38:14] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: I got os used that I do stuff at the work linux like hitting f11 all the time and dragging files to the desktop, poor machine gets confused as hell
[17:38:22] <cored> i will have to learn Emacs
[17:38:28] <cored> :-)
[17:38:36] <cored> vi for edition, and Eclipse/Emacs for coding
[17:38:42] <cored> i hope it runs well on a celeron 300 mhz
[17:38:42] <Lars_G> cored: Try emacs and vi, each has it's style.
[17:38:52] <cored> Lars_G: i use vim i love it
[17:39:00] <cored> Lars_G: but is sometime hard to code with it
[17:39:05] <Lars_G> cored: Btw check the "project" extension for vim, you might like it.
[17:39:08] <Peter> ermm, is the command 'KBInput' in java by default? xcode doesnt recognise it, but my windows editor does
[17:39:33] <roots-> if that a keystroke ?
[17:39:37] <Lars_G> Peter: Nothing is in Java by default, it all depends on what you have in your classpath and what you import.
[17:39:48] <roots-> s/if/is/
[17:40:02] <ricflazz> Lars_G: so you can have a classpath without rt.jar's contents in it?
[17:40:20] <Peter> Lars_G: oh :/
[17:40:27] <Lars_G> ricflazz: yes but you're pretty much fucked up then.
[17:40:31] *** shyfx has joined ##java
[17:40:32] <shyfx> j #c
[17:40:37] <shyfx> sorry
[17:40:43] <ricflazz> i would have thought the jvm wouldnt run
[17:40:45] <Peter> Lars_G: so can i download new libs?
[17:40:57] *** rebz- has joined ##java
[17:41:14] <Peter> or from where :)
[17:41:20] <Lars_G> cored: Ext project lets you group files and dirs in a project. apply global changes to them, handle them as one, and define run, build and deploy commands for the project.
[17:42:40] <cored> Lars_G: sounds good
[17:43:33] *** Sou|cutter has joined ##java
[17:43:54] <Lars_G> hi Sou|cutter
[17:43:58] <Sou|cutter> ahoy!
[17:45:43] *** Lamex has quit IRC
[17:48:47] *** apix has quit IRC
[17:49:07] *** arctic0 has joined ##java
[17:49:12] *** mrsmiley has joined ##java
[17:50:22] *** Danielle has quit IRC
[17:51:15] *** franl has joined ##java
[17:51:23] *** nicu_marasoiu has quit IRC
[17:53:22] *** YD has quit IRC
[17:54:00] *** Tirlas has joined ##java
[17:54:28] <Tirlas> Where's a good read on java threads?
[17:54:42] <axxo> ~thread
[17:54:43] <javabot> axxo, thread is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/essential/threads
[17:54:50] *** pengol has joined ##java
[17:55:14] <pengol> hi there ... how do I trace outgoing connection of a java process?
[17:55:47] <Sou|cutter> ~axxo++
[17:55:47] <javabot> axxo has a karma level of 0, Sou|cutter
[17:59:02] *** ^cool^tom^ has joined ##java
[17:59:07] <^cool^tom^> Hi
[18:00:45] <Lars_G> pengol: if it's a tcp connection I'd use a sniffer (ethereal)
[18:02:52] <pengol> Lars_G: thankz
[18:03:36] <pengol> Lars_G: there is no java specific options
[18:03:51] <Lars_G> pengol: Nope there are not. what kind of java specific options are you looking for?
[18:03:52] <pengol> I got timed how on a client but I don't know why
[18:04:12] <pengol> Lars_G: right
[18:04:24] <pengol> I don't have the canche to install ethreal atm
[18:04:30] <Lars_G> are you trying to verify a RMI connection? otherwise anything sent thorough tcp is just another protocol like any
[18:04:35] <pengol> and tcpdump doesn't help
[18:04:35] <Lars_G> ok
[18:04:50] <Lars_G> you might need to add some filters to make tcpdump clean enough to help
[18:04:57] <pengol> because the client seems not to contact the sever port
[18:05:06] *** ivanneto has joined ##java
[18:05:37] <pengol> Lars_G: the problem is that the client uses variable ephimeral ports (i suppose
[18:05:39] <pengol> )
[18:06:30] *** philosophia has joined ##java
[18:06:39] <ivanneto> Does anyone know the difference between javax.xml.soap.Name and javax.xml.namespace.QName? The javadoc tells that both of then represent XML names.
[18:07:23] <Lars_G> pengol: Each time you receive
[18:07:37] <pengol> Lars_G: sorry?
[18:07:49] <Lars_G> pengol: Sorry I mean establish a connection the client will use an ephimeral port, yes, but you can filter on your server's ports and ip which are static to you
[18:08:11] <pengol> I have no activity on that port
[18:08:16] <pengol> at all
[18:08:39] <Lars_G> not from, but TO that port
[18:08:48] <pengol> yes to
[18:08:53] <Lars_G> something like tcp dst port xx I forget.
[18:08:58] <Lars_G> No idea then. sorry dude
[18:09:04] <pengol> tcpdump port 8443
[18:09:12] <pengol> that's what I'm using
[18:09:29] <Lars_G> but if you have NO activity TO that port and you are conecting.. or trying to, you possibly have an internal firewall that's blocking the connection...
[18:09:42] <pengol> it should track all packs from/to 8443 port
[18:09:58] <Lars_G> yep
[18:10:00] <pengol> I tryed removing firewall
[18:10:10] *** petroleum has joined ##java
[18:10:10] <Lars_G> if the server is on the same machine, ty sniffing lo instead of eth0
[18:11:58] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Ping.
[18:12:33] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Can I assume I am free to /msg you now without previous permission request? and that you will just tell me if you're busy after first msg?
[18:13:52] <pengol> Lars_G: I tryed with -i any
[18:14:26] <littlezoper> Lars_G: he's off delivering a server and getting paid :)
[18:14:46] *** franl has quit IRC
[18:14:46] <Lars_G> pengol: This is becomming off topic, and saddly I can´t help you more than this (don't know how, not that I don't want to)
[18:15:04] <Lars_G> littlezoper: Getting paid is ok, but pr3d4t0r delivering a server? more likely supervising the delivery
[18:15:19] <Lars_G> littlezoper: ;)
[18:15:22] <pengol> Lars_G: you was extremely kind
[18:15:35] <Lars_G> pengol: Sorry i couldnt do more
[18:15:49] <pengol> Lars_G: thankz
[18:17:06] <mrsmiley> weird question, but shouldn't "JAVA_HOME" be set when I do the following?
[18:17:29] <Lars_G> Ok I need to concentrate on this code, be well all.
[18:17:30] <littlezoper> Lars_G: those were his words ;)
[18:17:41] <mrsmiley> set JAVA_HOME="C:\Program Files\Java\jdk1.5.0_05"
[18:17:42] <Lars_G> mrsmiley: ??
[18:17:50] <Lars_G> mrsmiley: What shell?
[18:17:58] <mrsmiley> Windows XP
[18:18:05] <Lars_G> ewww
[18:18:08] <mrsmiley> work
[18:18:09] <Lars_G> but yes it should be set.
[18:18:16] <Lars_G> echo %JAVA_HOME%
[18:18:20] <Lars_G> nothning?
[18:18:42] <mrsmiley> C:\>echo %JAVA_HOME%
[18:18:42] <mrsmiley> "C:\Program Files\Java\jdk1.5.0_05"
[18:18:48] <Lars_G> You can always right click on my computer, and somewhere there (I forget where, sorry) is a window to set enviroment variables globaly.
[18:18:54] <Lars_G> Ok then it IS set
[18:19:00] <pengol> Lars_G: cool I got activity on lo
[18:19:21] <Lars_G> pengol: Enjoy. possibly -i any doesn't includes lo
[18:19:28] <Lars_G> ok time to go
[18:19:31] <pengol> Lars_G: but it is addressed to the real IP address ... what does it mean?
[18:19:33] <mrsmiley> but see this "MAVEN" programme is still saying "The JAVA_HOME environment variable must be set. Please set JAVA_HOME to the location of your JDK and try installing again"
[18:19:42] <pengol> Lars_G: ok thankz :)
[18:19:48] *** Lars_G has quit IRC
[18:19:52] *** cm_patric has joined ##java
[18:20:36] *** mrsmiley has quit IRC
[18:21:38] *** ^cool^tom^ has left ##java
[18:22:23] *** OleMoudi has joined ##java
[18:24:53] *** ^cool^tom^ has joined ##java
[18:24:56] <^cool^tom^> Hi
[18:25:11] <^cool^tom^> Anybody here tried using jBp
[18:25:21] <^cool^tom^> Sorry jBPM
[18:26:29] *** swperman has joined ##java
[18:27:39] *** ^cool^tom^ has left ##java
[18:28:20] *** sandstorm|away has joined ##java
[18:28:43] *** USMarine has joined ##java
[18:28:55] <swperman> hey there... I am using a method where I need to pass an InputStream argument, and I want to pass a string... why can't I cast from StringReader to InputStream? Is there an alternative? Can't I create an InputStream object initializing it with a string?
[18:29:54] <rebz-> i've got a for loop running, and i've got different algorythms running
[18:30:06] <rebz-> is there a way to include a variable in the method name?
[18:30:15] <rebz-> ie, sort1() sort2() sort3()
[18:30:27] <rebz-> and run the loop to change that accordingly?
[18:31:09] <Sou|cutter> swperman: There's a StringBufferInputStream I think.  Or ByteArrayInputStream
[18:32:01] <Sou|cutter> oh wait StringBufferInputStream is deprecated
[18:33:33] *** doc|work has quit IRC
[18:34:21] <swperman> yes
[18:34:54] <swperman> they seem to suggest using StringBuffer instead, but it looks like they are not compatible... ?! (with InputStream)
[18:35:11] <roots-> StringBufferInputStream is broken
[18:35:21] <roots-> ignore encodings altogether
[18:35:44] <roots-> you can create a bytearrayinputstream from a string like this
[18:36:09] <roots-> new ByteArrayInputStream(yourString.getBytes("UTF-8"));
[18:36:23] <roots-> note the encoding, you definately want to make sure the method expects that
[18:36:28] <cyclone> Does someone know where you can download the whole javadocs API reference?
[18:36:59] *** ciaron has joined ##java
[18:37:43] <Sou|cutter> cyclone: java.sun.com/docs
[18:38:13] <Sou|cutter> cyclone: There is a download link on the right
[18:38:23] <cyclone> Sou|cutter: aahhh.. Thanks a ton
[18:40:17] *** Tirlas is now known as TirClass
[18:41:43] *** izik has joined ##java
[18:42:55] <izik> i am writing a software that should recongnize very very "easy to recongnize" letters , what does java offer me from the point of view of the image processoring?
[18:43:28] <cheeser> izik: google for java ocr
[18:43:40] *** fmachado has quit IRC
[18:43:44] <izik> cheeser:k thnks
[18:43:49] *** shyfx has quit IRC
[18:43:53] *** fmachado has joined ##java
[18:44:02] *** Syloq has quit IRC
[18:44:41] <izik> cheeser:it seems like it commercial , and my latters will be hebrew ( i want to write myself the letters recongnzition... )
[18:46:00] <swperman> roots-: I got an "Unhandled exception type UnsupportedEncodingException"
[18:46:12] *** sandstorm has quit IRC
[18:46:41] *** heanol has quit IRC
[18:50:50] *** pchapman has joined ##java
[18:51:59] *** tvn has joined ##java
[18:58:11] *** mrsmiley has joined ##java
[18:59:33] *** adante has quit IRC
[19:01:14] *** eidolon has joined ##java
[19:01:21] <eidolon> afternoon folks.
[19:01:55] <ernimril> hello eidolon
[19:02:39] <eidolon> heya ernimril.  how's life in the big show?
[19:02:42] *** [GT]Kane has quit IRC
[19:02:58] <ernimril> eidolon: big show?
[19:03:05] <eidolon> just yammering, don't mind me
[19:03:07] <ernimril> eidolon: its a slow evening here...
[19:03:22] <ernimril> eidolon: temperature is dropping rapidly outside...
[19:04:11] *** Tomasso has joined ##java
[19:04:12] <eidolon> mmm.  chilliness.
[19:04:16] * eidolon is playing with netwhistler.
[19:04:24] *** pengol has quit IRC
[19:04:50] <Tomasso> any of you know of a program to generate guis using swt ? integrated with eclipse
[19:05:15] <eidolon> there's a visual editor plugin for eclipse.
[19:05:19] <eidolon> last time i used it it wasn't very good.
[19:05:33] *** jeziel has joined ##java
[19:05:36] <ernimril> Tomasso: if you understand the layout managers you do not need any tool
[19:05:38] <izik> cant i intilizie MemoryImageSource from an image?
[19:05:43] *** teralaser has joined ##java
[19:05:53] <izik> i mean the oppist way...
[19:05:54] <eidolon> ernimril: a big if :)
[19:05:59] <Tomasso> ernimril, i dont understend them :D
[19:06:08] <ernimril> Tomasso: then learn them.
[19:06:13] <ernimril> ~tell Tomasso about layout
[19:06:14] <javabot> Tomasso, layout is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/layout/index.html. If the layout managers that come with the jdk dont satisfy you, have a look at FormLayout, TableLayout, PercentLayout or HTMLLayout (ask me about each of those to learn more)
[19:06:25] <Tomasso> le me check
[19:07:25] *** mrsolo has joined ##java
[19:08:03] <ernimril> eidolon: not really a big if. Doing swing/awt without knowing the layout managers is not a good idea. Either learn or hire someone to do the gui for you....
[19:08:35] <eidolon> i'm actually looking at the layout managers mentioned there.  gridbaglayout has an annoying tendency to do things i don't expect.  considering tablelayout or formlayout.
[19:08:46] <BULLE> ernimril: i dont agree, why bother with layoutmanagers if you dont have to, if there is a nice tool that helps you save lots of time, use it
[19:08:57] <BULLE> javabot: gridbaglayout
[19:08:58] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'gridbaglayout humor' might be appropriate:
[19:08:58] <ernimril> GridBagLayout is the one sane layout manager when you do complex stuff
[19:08:59] <javabot> BULLE, gridbaglayout humor is at: http://madbean.com/anim/totallygridbag
[19:09:08] <BULLE> eidolon: http://madbean.com/anim/totallygridbag
[19:09:14] <BULLE> eidolon: for a laugh
[19:09:18] <slava> layout managers are easy
[19:09:27] <slava> even gridbaglayout, i don't see what the big deal is
[19:09:37] <eidolon> ernimril: but i'm rarely doing complex stuff.  not yet at least.
[19:09:42] <eidolon> i'm mostly laying out form components.
[19:10:00] *** diro has joined ##java
[19:11:45] *** arctic0 has left ##java
[19:12:04] *** rizzo has joined ##java
[19:12:12] <rizzo> How do I call one constructor from another?
[19:12:20] <ernimril> rizzo: this(....)
[19:12:29] <Terr1> Anyone know a channel where you can discuss system developement methods? like XP/UP?
[19:12:40] <rizzo> ernimril: thanks.
[19:13:10] <slava> Terr1: #buzzwords
[19:14:08] <Terr1> ? heh
[19:14:47] <philosophia> i'm looking at some code in a cvs repository.  the java files look like file.java,v --is this something that cvs does?  1st time using it
[19:15:07] <Terr1> philosophia, yes it is
[19:15:20] <philosophia> thanks Terr1
[19:15:33] <ernimril> philosophia: when you check the code out you will get file.java
[19:16:36] <izik> is there a class oppist to memoryimagesource that will give me image into an array of pixels?
[19:16:54] <ernimril> izik: BufferedImage, Raster...
[19:17:22] <ernimril> izik: depending on what you really are asking about....
[19:17:42] <izik> ernimril:sec.. i will look at them
[19:17:56] *** fevel has quit IRC
[19:18:30] <izik> ernimril:i want an pixels array map...
[19:18:59] *** {aaron} has joined ##java
[19:19:14] <ernimril> izik: you do not make sense...
[19:19:25] <izik> ernimril:why?
[19:19:32] <rizzo> Is there anyway to get the name of "this" class before the constructor has been called?
[19:19:34] <_kmh_> Terr1 :UP= rational ?
[19:19:34] <{aaron}> why would I want to use JDom over pure w3c dom, and are there any equivalent w3c dom-compatible utility libraries (jdom claims it is not a w3c dom wrapper)
[19:19:38] *** silasj has quit IRC
[19:20:09] <ernimril> rizzo: in the constructor you _know_ the class
[19:20:40] <rizzo> ernimril: ... I'm actually in the constructor, trying to pass the name of the class to another constructor
[19:20:47] <rizzo> how do I _know_ it?
[19:20:56] <izik> ernimril:why i am not making sense?
[19:21:08] <ernimril> rizzo: first: why do you need to?
[19:21:09] <{aaron}> rizzo: does getClass() not work in the constructor?
[19:21:22] <_kmh_> rizzo :pass the name as a paramter to the constructor
[19:21:24] <rizzo> {aaron}: no it doesn't
[19:21:44] <ernimril> rizzo: public class A extends Base { public A { super(A.class.getName());}}
[19:22:00] *** swperman has left ##java
[19:22:06] <rizzo> ernimril: one sec
[19:22:07] *** spyromus has joined ##java
[19:22:07] <_kmh_> rizzo : why doesn't it work ? what error message does it create ?
[19:22:13] <ernimril> rizzo: you are probably doing something bad so tell us why you want this.
[19:22:18] *** shadewind has joined ##java
[19:23:25] <eidolon> is it my imagination, or are a lot of new / interesting apps coming out written in Swing?
[19:23:39] <eidolon> i've found 2-3 really useful apps for linux lately, and they were all swing apps.
[19:23:42] <ernimril> eidolon: you are imagining things...
[19:23:57] <spyromus> eidolon, have you seen BlogBridge?
[19:24:02] <ernimril> eidolon: there may be lots of new swing app, but they are not interesting
[19:24:07] <cheeser> 8^)=
[19:24:15] <cheeser> aqua data studio rocks.  all swing.
[19:24:18] <eidolon> ernimril: i'll argue that.  JBother is very good (jabber client), and netwhistler is what i was just looking at.
[19:24:23] <eidolon> what's aqua studio?
[19:24:32] <cheeser> database client
[19:24:33] <eidolon> spyromus: yyyesss... i think so.  swing based aggregator, right?
[19:24:38] <eidolon> ah, i use dbvisualizer.
[19:24:40] <eidolon> (also swing :)
[19:24:41] <spyromus> yeah :)
[19:24:56] <ernimril> still not seeing anything interesting....
[19:24:59] *** errr has quit IRC
[19:25:04] <eidolon> heh.
[19:25:15] <spyromus> I'm on the team and i would also argue that the're no wonderful Swing apps. :)
[19:25:27] <eidolon> on which team?
[19:25:32] <spyromus> BB
[19:25:35] <eidolon> oh cool.
[19:25:39] <eidolon> i was 'eh' on it when i evaled it.
[19:25:50] <eidolon> i use Sage in firefox as my aggregator :)
[19:25:52] <eidolon> i don't need anther app :)
[19:26:03] <rizzo> ernimril: sorry had someone pop into my cube.  Basically this class constructor takes two params for two separate strings.  I want overloaded constructors so that A) if only one param is passed, both strings are set to the same thing, or B) if no params are passed, both strings are set to the class name.
[19:26:11] <ernimril> eidolon: well one interesting thing is out, the one we develop at work...
[19:26:11] <spyromus> sure, it's a matter of habits and tastes :)
[19:26:39] <ernimril> rizzo: what for? logging or security? (both are wrong imo)
[19:26:45] <rizzo> ernimril: your last example seems to work
[19:26:59] <ernimril> rizzo: I only gave you one example and it ought to work...
[19:27:30] <rizzo> ernimril: the two strings are "project name" and "application name".  The application name is used as the log4j log category.  the project name is used in file system things like log/properties locations and error notifications.
[19:40:03] *** b0gg1e has quit IRC
[19:41:42] <spyromus> bye everyone. take care!
[19:41:53] *** spyromus has left ##java
[19:44:18] *** fevel has joined ##java
[19:44:50] <fevel> how do I use StringBuilder class please
[19:44:53] <fevel> to append
[19:45:00] <cheeser> javabot: tell fevel about javadoc StringBuilder
[19:45:00] <javabot> fevel, please see java.lang.StringBuilder: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/StringBuilder.html
[19:45:08] <fevel> do I have to instance it??
[19:45:11] <fevel> im learning
[19:45:21] <Mazon> yes
[19:45:29] *** FaeLLe has joined ##java
[19:45:37] <fevel> import java.lang.Stringbuilder?
[19:45:50] <cheeser> you don't need to import.
[19:45:58] <{aaron}> aqua data studio looks nice.  i can't find a download link though
[19:47:02] <fevel> I have a variable named test and it contains the string "hello, sequence is:"
[19:47:44] <fevel> how do I... test.append(" 102 357")??
[19:48:02] <cheeser> {aaron}: the big button at the top labelled "download?"
[19:48:10] <cheeser> http://www.aquadatastudio.com/downloads.html
[19:48:15] <{aaron}> cheeser: leads to the page with no discernable outbound links except a very very old version
[19:48:37] <{aaron}> the icons...they do naaaaathing
[19:48:38] <Fox_1_> how can i make string (example "5-15*78/6") to integer expression???
[19:49:06] <eidolon> cheeser: what's aquastudio got over dbvis?  (hwat i'd like to have is a user-definable form generator - so i can make my own forms.. and, if i'm really in dream land, can crosslink data.  ala, this form field contains values from this other table.
[19:49:12] <{aaron}> maybe i need cookies or something turned on for this page to render
[19:49:45] <fevel> Fox_1_: int example=5-15*78/6
[19:50:06] <Fox_1_> fevel, ?
[19:50:34] *** Ulgar has quit IRC
[19:50:51] <cheeser> {aaron}: http://aquafold.fileburst.com/download/v4.5.2/linux/ads-linux-x86-4.5.2.tar.gz
[19:51:07] <cheeser> fevel: read the javadoc link i gave you
[19:51:14] <{aaron}> thanks. was that from the download page somewhere?
[19:51:28] <cheeser> yeah.
[19:51:49] *** BuzMavi has joined ##java
[19:52:54] *** jogo_sf_ has quit IRC
[19:57:23] *** pundai|work has joined ##java
[19:57:43] <pundai|work> hey fellows, how do you declare a static class method in jni to use in java
[19:59:18] <cheeser> public static void blah()
[19:59:24] <cheeser> javabot: tell pundai|work about static
[19:59:25] <javabot> pundai|work, static is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/javaOO/classvars.html
[19:59:37] <Logi> cheeser: is blah a keyword then?
[19:59:56] <pundai|work> cheeser, so its my class interface that needs to be changed right
[19:59:58] <pundai|work> the java class
[20:00:15] <slava> Fox_1_: write a parser
[20:00:26] <fevel> I get a "method append(String) is undefined
[20:00:29] <cheeser> pundai|work: yes
[20:01:06] <Fox_1_> slava, i you from russian?
[20:01:18] <fevel> how do I instance the class StringBuilder
[20:01:37] <fevel> cheeser: I was reading those docs before I came here
[20:01:56] <Fox_1_> slava, i need algoritm.
[20:03:44] *** diro has quit IRC
[20:04:33] <cheeser> javabot: tell fevel about get started
[20:04:33] <javabot> fevel, get started is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/getStarted
[20:05:04] *** ciaron has quit IRC
[20:05:06] *** paulweb515 has joined ##java
[20:05:26] *** ciaron has joined ##java
[20:06:08] *** vate has joined ##java
[20:07:46] *** vinse has joined ##java
[20:08:49] <BuzMavi> guyss for a multi client ticket automation system what's the best and the fastest method ?? rmi rpc?? or something else?!! something that i can use with spring framework
[20:10:51] <pundai|work> thanks cheeser
[20:10:52] *** pundai|work has left ##java
[20:13:01] *** YD has joined ##java
[20:13:35] <vinse> according to google the current weather in LA is 1 F/ - 17 C ... did the apocalypse arrive and no one told me?
[20:14:43] <rizzo> Yes.
[20:15:12] <cheeser> it's a balmy 69 degrees here so the apocalypse hasn't made it up the mountains yet.
[20:15:38] *** [bono] has joined ##java
[20:15:47] <vinse> cheeser: you're in la?
[20:15:51] <cyclone> 66 here.. and RAIN :-/
[20:16:08] <cyclone> So I will continue to pray for the apocalypse to hit here.
[20:16:29] <cyclone> I think if it was to hit.. It would start in LA.
[20:16:59] <cheeser> vinse: denver
[20:17:28] *** slava has left ##java
[20:19:07] *** TirClass has quit IRC
[20:19:38] <[bono]> Tomcat Question: id like to have the url-pattern parameter to "/" (hence avoiding the .do extensions), but then tomcat tries to resolves paths like /layouts and /javascript ... Whats the right way to resolve that problem?
[20:19:41] *** USMarine has quit IRC
[20:20:24] <BuzMavi> guyss for a multi client ticket automation system what's the best and the fastest method ?? rmi rpc?? or something else?!! something that i can use with spring framework
[20:20:33] *** Markov has quit IRC
[20:20:37] *** jwormy has quit IRC
[20:21:01] *** Stigma has joined ##java
[20:22:30] *** MrPrimate has joined ##java
[20:22:45] <MrPrimate> does anyone have a method for getting the location on screen (pixels) of an item in a  JList ?
[20:23:03] <MrPrimate> the item.getLocationOnScreen() (although item is showing) claims not to be able to give anything because the item is not on screen
[20:23:39] *** apix has joined ##java
[20:23:47] <philosophia> anyone familiar w sybase?
[20:25:46] *** jwormy has joined ##java
[20:26:01] *** enervate has quit IRC
[20:28:30] *** CowwoC has quit IRC
[20:30:53] *** MindZEye has joined ##java
[20:34:04] <Erica> I don't know sybase
[20:34:06] <Erica> why do you ask?
[20:35:18] *** asac has quit IRC
[20:35:31] <vinse> i used sybase once
[20:35:42] <philosophia> i'm trying to connect via isql
[20:35:43] <Erica> Oracle
[20:35:47] <Erica> isql sucks
[20:36:01] <philosophia> i need to use it to change my pass w sp_passwd right
[20:36:06] <vinse> i think it was the one with max 31-character identifiers ... made it a huge pita
[20:36:09] <philosophia> or is there another way to do this
[20:36:14] <Erica> what is a pita?
[20:36:24] <cheeser> philosophia: is there a java question in there?
[20:36:25] <rizzo> pain in the ass
[20:36:41] <philosophia> no thought i'd ask since there's no #sybase
[20:36:50] * cheeser glances at the topic.
[20:36:55] <cheeser> yep.  still ##java.
[20:36:57] <philosophia> i'll be doing jdbc code once i'm set w it though
[20:37:00] <cheeser> try the website.
[20:39:24] *** asac has joined ##java
[20:39:36] <Erica> sybase sucks
[20:39:47] <Erica> can you tell that I am bored?
[20:39:59] <philosophia> not my choice to use it unfortunately
[20:40:35] <Erica> i'm bored because i'm on a bland diet
[20:40:45] <Erica> lettuce only diet.
[20:41:02] <paulweb515> That'll kill ya ...
[20:41:08] <Erica> gotta, i'm fat
[20:41:11] <MrPrimate> WHAT
[20:41:14] <MrPrimate> lettuce only diet?
[20:41:18] <MrPrimate> that's sick man
[20:41:19] <Erica> I want to be pretty and weigh 130lbs
[20:41:31] <Erica> i'm 265lbs :(
[20:41:32] <MrPrimate> I think you can come up with something better than that
[20:41:38] <paulweb515> I thought society was big on meat only diets now ...
[20:41:46] <MrPrimate> they say if you eat a lot of little tiny bits of food, it speeds up your metabolism,
[20:41:47] <Erica> I want to lose 145
[20:41:55] <nmx> ok, why did no one ever tell me that all creation and modification of swing components was supposed to take place on the event-handling thread?
[20:42:06] <MrPrimate> why don't you eat small bits of food every hour, healthy food, not greasy stuff, and maybe no meat
[20:42:09] <MrPrimate> don't eat lettuce only, that's insane
[20:42:27] <Erica> MrPrimate I want to be pretty i have to be this extreme :(
[20:42:46] <MrPrimate> Erica, you'll never make it... iyou will give up if you try to be that extreme
[20:42:46] <paulweb515> nmx: they wrote it down ... but not in the obvious places
[20:42:49] <Erica> I also go to gym
[20:42:58] *** Cow_woC has joined ##java
[20:43:04] <MrPrimate> Erica, you won't be able to do it, nobody can eat just lettuce
[20:43:17] <MrPrimate> Erica, I seriously think you should have a better system so that you won't give up
[20:43:18] <cheeser> that's a really stupid diet.
[20:43:20] <Cow_woC> hi
[20:43:26] <cheeser> talk to a nutrtionist.
[20:43:34] <nmx> paulweb515: it's just funny cause none of the example code i had seen did that. nor did the code generated by eclipse
[20:43:56] <Cow_woC> cheeser: I'm thinking of giving my POJO a reference to its DAO so for example I can invoke Image.getSpecificationAtSource() and it'll ask its DAO to find out what the image specification is in the DB
[20:44:04] <Cow_woC> cheeser: do you see a design problem with that?
[20:44:06] <cheeser> nmx: actually, the swing tutorials tell you not to manipulate the GUI off the EDT
[20:44:23] <cheeser> Cow_woC: if it works for you that's fine.
[20:44:28] <nmx> cheeser: yes, i finally stumbled across that, though i don't remember seeing it when i first did the tutorials years ago
[20:44:31] <cheeser> i don't see any particular problem with it.
[20:44:49] <Cow_woC> ok, because in general I've been told POJOs shouldn't be aware of the database ... and I'm wondering why
[20:44:52] <cheeser> make sure you mark the DAO as transient so it doesn't get serialized if that's a possiblity
[20:45:04] <cheeser> Cow_woC: separation of concerns
[20:45:04] <Cow_woC> giving it a reference to the DAO is making it aware of the DB ...
[20:45:15] <Cow_woC> hmm, right ..
[20:45:18] <cheeser> no, it's making it aware of the DAO.
[20:45:31] <cheeser> which might talk to one of a hundred different datastores.
[20:45:59] *** apix has quit IRC
[20:46:02] <Cow_woC> ok, sounds good... so right now users will interact either with the DAO or POJO, and the POJO might interact with the DAO itself
[20:46:11] *** kraupu has joined ##java
[20:46:19] <cheeser> still, i'd put in a layer like a Home or a Manager if you're really interested in not having your POJO know about your DAO
[20:46:31] <Cow_woC> what would that add?
[20:46:42] <cheeser> peace of mind?
[20:46:43] <cheeser> 8^)=
[20:46:52] *** BuzMavi has quit IRC
[20:46:53] <Cow_woC> I mean, I don't know it means to add a Home or Manager
[20:47:00] <cheeser> nothing really.  but it does keep all the DAO work in one place.
[20:47:13] <Cow_woC> they'll be singletons, so I can get them whenever I want
[20:47:22] <Cow_woC> ImageDAO.getInstance()
[20:47:25] <kraupu> Hello... could abybody point me to the wright direction... i want to analyze tcp/ip packets with Java... Is it posssible? I want to do something like Ethereal but simplier... Does anybody have any ideas?
[20:47:54] <Cow_woC> kraupu: this is likely not possible
[20:48:03] <Cow_woC> kraupu: and wright should be spelled "right"
[20:48:21] <kraupu> sorry.. "right"...
[20:48:25] <kraupu> thanks..
[20:49:14] <vinse> s/simplier/simpler
[20:49:17] <vinse> while we're at it ;)
[20:49:22] <kraupu> sorry sorry...
[20:49:27] <Cow_woC> cheeser: one thing that bothers me .... there are a few kinds of images: 1) local file 2) in database 3) on remote server ... If #2 is aware of a DAO and the other two aren't, why even bother separating DAO from the class?
[20:49:39] <kraupu> so there is no posibility to do this with java?
[20:49:40] <Cow_woC> meaning, in #1 and #3 they deal directly with the "source"
[20:49:58] <cheeser> there probably isn't
[20:50:10] <cheeser> kraupu: direct hardware access is not possible in java, no.
[20:50:22] <cheeser> you could use JNI to gather the data and then use java to process it.
[20:50:33] <kraupu> ok, thanks
[20:50:48] <Cow_woC> cheeser: I think I'll just rename ImageDAO to ImageSource and use it on all three cases
[20:51:29] <[bono]> Tomcat Question: id like to have the url-pattern parameter to "/" (hence avoiding the .do extensions), but then tomcat tries to resolves paths like /layouts and /javascript ... Whats the right way to resolve that problem?
[20:51:45] <[bono]> Anyone knows?
[20:52:59] <littlezoper> [bono]: apache, mod/jk, and url rewriting
[20:53:01] <littlezoper> hehe
[20:53:48] *** ArcTuRuX has joined ##java
[20:53:50] *** thehil has joined ##java
[20:53:51] <[bono]> littlezoper: i though about mod_rewrite in apache, but it looks to me as an application scpecific feature... It doesnt seem right to put application specific stuff in apache config file, dont you agree?
[20:53:58] <thehil> how do I compile robocode .java file?
[20:55:18] <ArcTuRuX> javac robocode.java
[20:55:21] <ArcTuRuX> in shell
[20:57:08] *** ArcTuRuX has quit IRC
[20:58:02] *** tdk650m has joined ##java
[20:58:32] *** vezzoni has quit IRC
[21:00:02] <cheeser> javabot: tell thehil about get started
[21:00:03] <javabot> thehil, get started is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/getStarted
[21:00:44] <littlezoper> [bono]: sure, but it is an option, and the first I could think of :)
[21:01:12] <[bono]> littlezoper: agreed :-)
[21:07:55] *** Mc_Fly has quit IRC
[21:08:14] *** errr has joined ##java
[21:10:43] <{Mike}> in whats a junit assertionfailederror?
[21:11:01] <{Mike}> I've never used JUnit, someone else wrote the JUnit tests
[21:11:19] *** xi5hnik has joined ##java
[21:11:23] <xi5hnik> Greetings.
[21:12:40] <sockmonk> {Mike}: that just means that the junit test asserted that some condition ought to be true, and when the test ran, it wasn't
[21:13:03] <sockmonk> hopefully the test output gives more details, and the test code itself should show what was being tested and how.
[21:13:54] <{Mike}> ok, cheers
[21:14:51] *** csaba has joined ##java
[21:15:30] <sockmonk> [bono]: I see no reason not to put apache config stuff in apache's virtualhost entry for that application.
[21:15:56] <sockmonk> you could have apache Include the application-specific part from a separate file, if you want a little more separation
[21:16:25] <csaba> hi i have a java bean which needs to read some properties from an xml file, and then return it to a jsp page. The problem is that when I give the path of the xml file, like "../../conf/config.xml" then it won't find the file. So I figured I need to define directory mappings in the web.xml. How shoudl I do this?
[21:17:02] <cheeser> use getResourceAsStream
[21:17:05] *** sandstorm|away is now known as sandstom
[21:17:06] *** sandstom is now known as sandstorm
[21:17:45] *** BrianB04 has joined ##java
[21:17:51] <csaba> hmm, not possible, the xml parser component requires a String as its parameter, so that's what my bean needs to provide
[21:18:24] <ernimril> csaba: what parser would that be?
[21:18:34] <ernimril> csaba: most parsers can take an input stream
[21:19:00] <csaba> this is a custom parser specificaly written for this one xml file
[21:19:02] <BrianB04> Afternoon all. I have a recommendation I would like from you guys. I'm building (For a company I work for) a test taking system that will have a client and server. Now, it has to work across platform, so I finally decided to brush off my Java skills and use that. What I wonder, is what recommendations do you have for getting the quickest application (In terms of performance) I can, and alos what GUI framework to use.
[21:19:09] <Cow_woC> cheeser: when Hibernate initializes a collection, does it initialize the elements too or do they remain proxies?
[21:19:30] <Cow_woC> cheeser: that is, if I invoke collection.size() will it initialize the actual values therein?
[21:19:35] <Cow_woC> contained therein ..
[21:19:38] <cheeser> i don't think so
[21:20:10] <ernimril> BrianB04: swing is a fully featured gui toolkit that can be either slow or fast. Depending on if you do your gui correctly or not...
[21:20:10] <Cow_woC> cheeser: check out the last example in http://www.hibernate.org/hib_docs/v3/reference/en/html_single/#queryhql-tipstricks
[21:20:24] <ernimril> BrianB04: Swing is part of the jre so I would suggest you use it
[21:20:31] <Cow_woC> cheeser: it says: "You can find the size of a collection without initializing it" which makes me wonder why this is so vital
[21:20:53] <BrianB04> ernimril: When you say if you do the GUI right or wrong, how do you mean?
[21:21:03] *** csaba has quit IRC
[21:21:03] <Cow_woC> cheeser: if I use their tip, it has to go in the DAO but if I use collection.size() it can go in the POJO ... so it's important for me to know which is better
[21:21:51] *** mlic has quit IRC
[21:21:57] <ernimril> BrianB04: I mean that you can easily call Thread.sleep(...) or url.getInputStream or some other slow action on the paint thread and then you will have an application that feels slow....
[21:22:32] <BrianB04> ernimril: Ah, alright. So the Java apps that use Swing and just feel slow are badly coded.
[21:22:51] <ernimril> BrianB04: in almost all cases, yes
[21:23:16] <ernimril> BrianB04: due to javas big api it is easy to talk to databases and networks...
[21:23:46] *** earl3982 has joined ##java
[21:24:03] <BrianB04> Right, that's what drew me to it in the first place. I looked into C++, but even that's tough to find good frameworks on various platforms, without either spending huge money, or giving up some features. I don't feel like having to code it 3 times for 3 platforms, you know?
[21:24:10] <ernimril> BrianB04: so you want to do such things in the background and show status/progressbars on the painter thread
[21:24:50] *** watzlaf has quit IRC
[21:24:50] *** stefan has quit IRC
[21:24:50] *** AlphaOmega_wrk has quit IRC
[21:24:50] *** otheraaron has quit IRC
[21:24:55] <earl3982> when using an <applet> tag, how do you specify to run a class thats in a package?  like  somepackage.someclass.class ?
[21:25:01] <ernimril> BrianB04: try java and find out if it is good enough...
[21:25:02] *** zackkk has left ##java
[21:25:03] *** zackkk has joined ##java
[21:26:01] <BrianB04> Has Java 1.5 improved upon memory use at all? Cause I know 1.4 uses a good chunk of memory just for the Java...insance?
[21:26:17] <ernimril> BrianB04: yes and no...
[21:26:19] *** Lars_G has joined ##java
[21:26:25] <ernimril> BrianB04: depends on what you call memory usage...
[21:26:43] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: I'm doomed now. Now I want a Mac for the office too. and I know they will not pay for one (neither can I afford another machine right now)
[21:26:46] <ernimril> BrianB04: java memory maps some big files, that tends to show up in top/taskmanager...
[21:26:51] <{Mike}> anyone able to help me with Signature certificate verification?
[21:26:57] <ernimril> BrianB04: but it does not really use all that memory
[21:27:16] <BrianB04> Okay, so for instance, with JEdit, I see about 35 megs, it's not actually using that much memory, just mapping it?
[21:27:32] <Lars_G> BrianB04: Basically, memory in Java is like arrays in some languages.
[21:27:36] <ernimril> BrianB04: I do not use jedit myself so I can not say...
[21:27:41] <Lars_G> BrianB04: it reserves a big bunch. and uses part of it.
[21:27:44] <ernimril> BrianB04: linux/unix?
[21:27:50] <BrianB04> OS X
[21:27:55] <ernimril> BrianB04: then check /proc/pid/maps
[21:28:35] <Lars_G> BrianB04: When the program nears it's memory used to the amount of memory mapped, the VM asks for another bunch from the OS and maps it. and so until you reach your Max meory argument (-Xmx) and get an exception
[21:29:09] <BrianB04> Then, the other question I have: Does running java with -server really improve performance?
[21:29:12] *** cybereal has joined ##java
[21:29:24] <ernimril> BrianB04: depends on what you do...
[21:31:21] *** xi5hnik has left ##java
[21:31:37] <BrianB04> I think now, after having to figure out this project I'm stuck doing, I hate crossplatform coding:)
[21:31:49] <{aaron}> yeah i think 1.5 introduced library sharing to some extent...maybe only the src.jar
[21:32:55] *** Ulgar has joined ##java
[21:33:52] *** tdk650m has quit IRC
[21:34:48] *** AlekseyGureev has joined ##java
[21:35:41] <BrianB04> I went in thinking, C++, perfect...ummm, nope. OS X is ObjC, Windows is going C#...at least Java exists
[21:36:15] <littlezoper> i just read a post somewhere extolling the virtues of qt/c++ fro x-platform work
[21:36:23] <ernimril> BrianB04: java works well on windows and linux, I have not tested on mac or solaris, but it ought to work well there too
[21:36:40] <BrianB04> QT is nice from what I looked into, it does have drawbacks
[21:36:53] <cybereal> Qt makes C++ development somewhat tolerable
[21:36:59] <Sou|cutter> BrianB04: the BSDs don't have a 1.5 VM though, fyi
[21:37:00] <BrianB04> 1.) If you aren't working in GPL, you end up paying nearly 6000 bucks per developer for 3 platforms.
[21:37:01] <cybereal> and now there are free versions for all platforms
[21:37:09] <cybereal> BrianB04: true, it does have the cost
[21:37:17] <BrianB04> 2.) QT is a very, very long compile.
[21:37:31] <izik> how can i convert an image to a pixel array vairible in java?
[21:37:42] *** {aaron} has left ##java
[21:37:57] *** slava has joined ##java
[21:38:01] <BrianB04> And I'm all for GPL, but...it does make it tough to make a revenue stream.
[21:38:18] <cybereal> ~bomb GPL
[21:38:18] * javabot drops a humongous exploding turd on GPL
[21:38:31] <littlezoper> BrianB04: yeah...it has pros and cons, but...
[21:38:35] <ernimril> izik: ImageIO.read gives a BufferedImage, get the raster from it
[21:38:49] <izik> k thnks
[21:39:02] <slava> cybereal:  what did i walk into?
[21:39:05] <cybereal> BrianB04: if you want to see the result of a good application done cross platform using Qt check out the Jabber client Psi
[21:39:09] *** veleno has joined ##java
[21:39:14] <cybereal> slava: just me expressing my feelings on the GPL
[21:39:23] <BrianB04> If the cost wasn't so bad, I would be all for it. If it was say 3000 for 3 platforms it would be alright, tolerable at least.
[21:39:25] <cybereal> slava: no flamewar or anything (yet) :)
[21:39:33] <veleno> what's the difference between Orion, Resin and Jetty ?
[21:39:35] <slava> if the GPL bothers you, just don't use GPL'd code in your software... its no big deal
[21:39:43] <cybereal> BrianB04: You know, you can buy all developers one license, and one developer all three to compile for secondary platforms
[21:40:05] <Sou|cutter> BrianB04: I like how Id software operates -- they keep their source proprietary until a couple years later, then they release under an open source license (i can't recall off the top of my head, I think it's BSD though).  A lot of propriety source companies are black holes where the source never makes it into public space
[21:40:09] <cybereal> slava: I wrote my first ocaml program :D  But my second one is turning into a real pain in the ass.
[21:40:19] <slava> cybereal: what are you trying to implement?
[21:40:28] <BrianB04> Now, this testing platform, I could do a revenue stream on that, even GPL. Offer support, setup, etc.
[21:40:30] <littlezoper> slava: the second hump
[21:40:41] <littlezoper> ba dum bump!
[21:40:57] *** ArcTuRuX has joined ##java
[21:41:13] <cybereal> slava: just a simple client the connects to some arbitrary host/socket and dumps everything it receives until EOF/Socket closed.  I've managed to get connected and get some bytes but I have had trouble with the rest.  I'm using the Unix module.
[21:41:38] <Sou|cutter> BrianB04: ah, just checked it's actually GPL
[21:41:52] <slava> cybereal: it should be easy...
[21:42:03] <cybereal> slava: yeah should be :) but I'm trying to make it all functional
[21:42:18] <cybereal> and running into problems with getting the data indefinitely
[21:42:19] <slava> well, in this case you want to be appending to a growable string array, not doing it functionally...
[21:42:21] <BrianB04> I don't want to start a licensing war, but GPL has a few holes in it...which scare me a touch.
[21:42:25] <slava> what holes?
[21:42:29] <slava> if you don't like hte GPL, don't use it
[21:42:51] <cybereal> Compulsory licensing = bad bad bad!
[21:42:52] *** errr has quit IRC
[21:43:23] <cybereal> Just put a nice copyright notice in all your software until you truly understand which license you want to give more rights with
[21:43:26] <BrianB04> The biggest thing I dislike ( And no I don't use GPL, mostly BSD ) is that anyone can hack the code, and release it without credit.
[21:43:49] <Sou|cutter> that would seem to be breaknig the license agreement
[21:43:52] <slava> why does this matter?
[21:44:07] <Sou|cutter> depending on what "release" means
[21:44:10] <littlezoper> <cheeser>it doesn't in this channel</cheeser>
[21:44:11] <littlezoper> :)
[21:45:02] <BrianB04> Man, why is it so hard to find the GPL stuff on Trolltech...it's like buried.
[21:45:03] <cheeser> 8^)=
[21:45:15] <slava> the GPL was designed to piss of the precisely the people it is pissing off, so I think it has achieved its goal
[21:45:40] <slava> i use BSD license nowadays
[21:46:18] *** watzlaf has joined ##java
[21:46:43] <pchapman> GPL vs BSD vs some-other-open-source-license is like icecream.  Having more options is good.  If you don't like GPL flavor, don't use it.  Don't stick your tongue out at those that use it.  They like the GPL flavor.
[21:46:59] *** pok has joined ##java
[21:47:12] <slava> exactly
[21:47:13] <cybereal> pchapman: the only real problem is that a lot of OSS developers don't think that there are more flavors than the GPL
[21:47:23] <Lars_G> slava: I use BSD as well
[21:47:26] <slava> cybereal: not true. if somebody wants to use the GPL, it is their right to do so.
[21:47:33] <pchapman> cybereal, Maybe, but I don't see that as a flaw in GPL.
[21:47:40] <cybereal> I didn't say it was
[21:47:46] <cybereal> slava: wtf are you talking about?
[21:47:46] *** kinabalu has joined ##java
[21:47:49] <slava> that's just like saying people don't release source out of ignorance
[21:47:53] <pok> hello all, can anybody recommend a suitable web framework to use in a typical db -> front end application?
[21:47:58] <slava> no, they chose to make thier program closed source, and you cannot complain about that
[21:48:06] <cybereal> All I'm saying is that most of them don't know they have other choices besides the GPL
[21:48:13] <slava> cybereal: that's not true
[21:48:15] <cybereal> !s/most/many/
[21:48:15] <Drone> cybereal: All I'm saying is that many of them don't know they have other choices besides the GPL
[21:48:17] <Lars_G> pok: hibernate and jsf.
[21:48:26] <slava> pok: ruby on rails
[21:48:30] <pok> Lars_G: already using hibernate for my db
[21:48:33] <BrianB04> What about Web Objects?;)
[21:48:41] <pok> was thinking about tapestry
[21:48:41] <Lars_G> pok: Then couple it with struts or JSF
[21:48:51] <cybereal> slava: you can't prove it's not true; and my experience says otherwise
[21:48:57] <pchapman> slava, I don't think it's true either.  However, since what slava is saying is opinion and not factual, you can't argue for or against it.
[21:49:01] <slava> cybereal: name a single case where a developer did not know they had a choice other than GPL
[21:49:27] <slava> cybereal: maybe people pick GPL "by default", but that does not mean they are not aware other licenses exist
[21:49:33] <cybereal> slava: Someone in this channel several weeks ago brought up the GPL and I pointed them towards the osi to read about other license because they thought that the only open source license was the GPL
[21:49:41] *** gothtec has quit IRC
[21:49:48] <slava> cybereal: this channel does not have a high intelligence level
[21:49:52] <pchapman> cybereal, OK.  That's (one).
[21:49:58] <cybereal> pchapman: I have run into others
[21:50:13] <ArcTuRuX> can anyone help me dicipher a java project for my class? im confused about what Im supposed to do.... I don't need someone to tell me how to do it, just want some clarification
[21:50:30] <cybereal> Why is it so hard to believe that people are ignorant of licensing options?  I didn't say all people who use the GPL are.
[21:51:12] <pchapman> That's very anecdotal and not necessarily true.  That's all I'm saying.
[21:51:16] <Drone> View ArcTuRuX's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8406
[21:52:23] <cybereal> pchapman: Right, you're just being pointlessly contrary.  Furthermore, why would I document all the people who I have helped find more information about licensing for?  How silly.
[21:52:54] <vinse> i dont think it's going out on a limb to say that most people with a casual knowledge of OSS think of the GPL as the de facto OSS license
[21:53:25] <slava> why does it matter?
[21:53:27] *** AlekseyGureev is now known as spyromus
[21:53:30] <vinse> it doesnt
[21:53:39] <vinse> but it's being argued about
[21:53:44] <vinse> so i just thought i'd weigh in ;)
[21:53:48] <cybereal> My only point is that the GPL is often more restrictive than people realize, so they really should know why they are using it if they are.
[21:53:49] *** Althaser has joined ##java
[21:54:06] <cybereal> There's nothing wrong with it, assuming you know what it means though.
[21:54:08] <pchapman> cybereal, I'll agree with that statement 100%.
[21:54:14] <slava> more restrictive than people realize?
[21:54:23] <slava> i think people GPL their code precisely because they want these restrictions
[21:54:23] *** jake has left ##java
[21:54:30] <Twiun> slava: Aye!
[21:55:01] *** drewie has joined ##java
[21:55:02] <Twiun> but it's like everything else, the right tool for the job, GPL suited the job in that one case
[21:55:09] <drewie> hi
[21:55:17] <vinse> hi drewie
[21:55:21] *** terence_ has joined ##java
[21:55:23] <drewie> what's the best way of emulating multiple inheritence?
[21:55:31] <littlezoper> interfaces!
[21:55:33] <terence_> hi
[21:55:55] <zackkk> having trouble here with HW-- (loops) , how would i use a while integer (just expression) to print a range of integers that are odd?
[21:55:58] <drewie> interfaces? i have 2 classes with implemented methods and i want a third class to have all of these methods
[21:56:02] <Althaser> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8407 why this please ?
[21:56:03] <cheeser> interfaces and aggregation
[21:56:20] <slava> drewie: most java problems are solved with copy and paste
[21:56:31] <drewie> yeah i solved this that way
[21:56:34] <littlezoper> cheeser: aggregation...good call
[21:56:34] * pchapman blinks
[21:56:39] <spyromus> slava: as many other problems do :)
[21:56:40] <drewie> i'm interested in better solutions though
[21:56:52] <Lars_G> cybereal: http://eternalzoo.blogspot.com/2005/05/gpl-is-not-free.html
[21:57:11] <cybereal> Lars_G: that's my general sentiment right there
[21:57:13] <spyromus> anyone is using PowerBooks for java programing here?
[21:57:23] <cheeser> #licenses would be a great place to discuss the GPL
[21:57:38] <vinse> cheeser is the topic police
[21:57:49] <vinse> his efforts are almost always futile though :(
[21:57:51] <slava> spyromus: i use a mac mini to run java apps
[21:57:56] <Lars_G> spyromus: I'm using an iBook for that
[21:57:59] <Twiun> vinse: cheeser does eventually wake up though
[21:58:07] <Lars_G> vinse: Until he kicks your arse
[21:58:10] <spyromus> slava & Lars_G: how it goes?
[21:58:22] *** wms has quit IRC
[21:58:26] <spyromus> I wonder if iBook is enough for IDEA?
[21:58:26] <pchapman> Cheeser usually gets the point accross.  Usually  when he kicks you.
[21:58:36] <cheeser> vinse: they only appear to be futile if i'm just too busy to bust out the banhammer
[21:58:40] *** BrianB04 has left ##java
[21:58:52] <Lars_G> cheeser: I'd +q him for that comment.
[21:59:00] <Lars_G> cheeser: and then +q me for suggesting it.
[21:59:16] <cheeser> i don't like +q'ing.  lacks that something that says stfu.  8^)=
[21:59:51] <cybereal> cheeser: you could make yourself a macro to say, literally, STFU then +q them? :)
[22:00:15] <Lars_G> cybereal: Btw you're free to read the rest of the blog, and to click on google ads as mad.
[22:00:17] <cheeser> i have an alias set to kickban for 2 minutes already.
[22:00:29] <cybereal> Lars_G: heh click on ads... how funny!
[22:00:44] <Lars_G> cheeser: Trouble is, in many cases kickbaned people give up and never return...
[22:00:44] *** Althaser has left ##java
[22:00:47] <Lars_G> wait.... that's good.
[22:00:58] <cybereal> Lars_G: the ads on your blog are for other blog sites :)
[22:01:49] <spyromus> Lars_G: So would you recommend iBook/PowerBook for Java programming?
[22:02:17] <cheeser> Lars_G: actually most come back.  and quite of few those never learn.
[22:02:27] <cheeser> spyromus: powerbook, yes.  ibook probably not.
[22:03:08] <spyromus> cheeser: I was thinking the same way. Perhapse, iBook has not enough power for comfortable coding.
[22:03:23] <cybereal> spyromus: remember to get at least 1gb of ram
[22:03:26] *** fuso has joined ##java
[22:03:49] <spyromus> cybereal: yeah :)
[22:03:54] <Lars_G> spyromus: I recomend x-books as wonderfull machines all around.
[22:04:16] <Lars_G> The real lack in BOTH powerbooks and iBooks is memory
[22:04:21] <spyromus> Lars_G: that's why I wish to jump off my Win/Lin laptop
[22:04:22] <Lars_G> you need more ram to be confy, at least 1Gb
[22:04:34] *** Frederick has joined ##java
[22:04:38] <Lars_G> and you can expand both iBooks and PowerBooks.
[22:04:48] *** earl3982 has quit IRC
[22:04:49] * paulweb515 wanders off
[22:04:56] <spyromus> do you have 12" or 14" screen?
[22:05:04] <Lars_G> the only REAL advantage the PowerBook (big ones) will give you over iBooks out of the box, for programming, is more free HDD space to store code.
[22:05:13] <Lars_G> I have a 12" iBook of the new series.
[22:05:29] <spyromus> hm, that's definitely too small, IMO
[22:05:30] <Lars_G> And so far I have all my coding system set up and I still have some 23 Gb free
[22:05:44] <Lars_G> I bought it for portability, not as desktop replacement.
[22:05:47] <Lars_G> and it works a charm.
[22:05:52] <cybereal> I wish the apple laptops had higher resolution screens
[22:06:01] <Lars_G> but yes, for long coding sessions the keyboard can become a little tiresome
[22:06:22] <Lars_G> cybereal: what for? you can always buy the 30" cinema display and hook the laptop to it
[22:06:23] <spyromus> ah, I'm looking for desktop replacement and probably PBook 17" will do the job.
[22:06:27] *** eidolon has quit IRC
[22:06:32] <Lars_G> spyromus: It sure will.
[22:06:33] <cybereal> Lars_G: unless you're me and have developed a real liking for laptop keyboards over the past 10 years :)  I actually type faster and more comfortably on them now than regular keyboards.
[22:06:50] <vinse> you're wierd then
[22:06:55] <cyclone> cybereal: I am with you on that.
[22:06:55] <Lars_G> cybereal: I don't like keyboards that give when I tap on the keys
[22:06:56] <spyromus> Lars_G: ok, thanks
[22:07:00] *** AlphaOmega_wrk has joined ##java
[22:07:01] <cybereal> Lars_G: I don't want a 30" display, I want a 12" laptop with 1280x1024 res. instead of 1024x768 is all
[22:07:07] <cyclone> I've actually started to like Laptop keyboards more
[22:07:12] <cyclone> they spring up better
[22:07:27] <cybereal> I just like the short travel time and the close-together keys; it reduces the effort required of my fingers
[22:07:31] *** zackkk has left ##java
[22:07:31] *** zackkk has joined ##java
[22:07:51] <Lars_G> cybereal: Which will be null if you typed correctly instead of pecking keys
[22:07:52] <spyromus> in fact, even touch pads are not that weird as they seem at a first glance :)
[22:07:52] <Drone> View zackkk's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8408
[22:07:54] <cybereal> 'course I'm probably one of those rare people who could stand to type on a keyboard that didn't have any tactile feedback
[22:08:00] <cybereal> Lars_G: I do type correctly
[22:08:03] <zackkk> noob question ^^ http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8408
[22:08:04] <cybereal> Lars_G: I average 120wpm
[22:08:18] <Lars_G> spyromus: Touchpads are tiresome, even the wonderfull new x-book touchpads.
[22:08:34] <cybereal> good touchpads are nice, apple's touchpads are severly lacking
[22:08:35] <zackkk> not working. stops at 5, doesnt go higher, anyone help me out?
[22:08:51] <cheeser> zackkk: use two loops
[22:09:04] <cheeser> you want to loop from 5 to 51
[22:09:16] <Honk^away> he doesnt want too loops though :p
[22:09:19] <cheeser> and inside that use an if to determine whether to print
[22:09:20] <spyromus> My HP nx9005's t/p is something increadible... Sometimes I even forget to attach mouse, so smooth and comfy I feel with it.
[22:09:23] <cheeser> yeah.  one loop sorry.
[22:09:33] <zackkk> hmm
[22:09:34] <ArcTuRuX> for (i=5, i < 55, i++) .....
[22:09:35] <Honk^away> 1 loop, 1 if, and <, not > :)
[22:09:40] <Honk^away> ArcTuRuX: lol
[22:09:44] <Honk^away> read the description ;)
[22:09:51] <ArcTuRuX> ahh
[22:09:52] <ArcTuRuX> bummer
[22:09:53] <Lars_G> zackkk: Move the oddness check to an if inside the loop, otherwise, first pare number you touch, it will end the loop and then the program
[22:09:53] <ArcTuRuX> lol
[22:10:11] <zackkk> alright
[22:10:38] <ArcTuRuX> anyone help with mine?
[22:10:43] <ArcTuRuX> i don't really know how to get started
[22:10:45] *** synic has joined ##java
[22:10:49] <zackkk> hmm
[22:10:58] <spyromus> Arc, what is it?
[22:11:05] <Lars_G> ArcTuRuX: Did you ask?
[22:11:09] <ArcTuRuX> (http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8406) - ugly multi array problem
[22:11:20] <ArcTuRuX> for my class due tomorrow night
[22:11:28] <ArcTuRuX> need massive shove in the right direction :)
[22:12:12] <Honk^away> ArcTuRuX: where's the problem?
[22:12:21] <Lars_G> ~tell zackkk about pm
[22:12:22] <javabot> zackkk, pm is something you should do to bots, like me and Drone, but not to other users without asking politely.
[22:12:26] *** stefan has joined ##java
[22:12:29] *** errr has joined ##java
[22:12:35] <zackkk> whoops :x sorry
[22:12:38] <Lars_G> zackkk: Paste the new code in pastebin
[22:13:09] <Drone> View zackkk's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8409
[22:13:29] <Honk^away> <Honk^away> [...] and <, not > :)
[22:13:29] <ArcTuRuX> im just confused pretty much completely lol
[22:13:41] <Lars_G> zackkk: Ok, let's see, what are you trying to check in the while() condition?
[22:13:52] <Honk^away> ArcTuRuX: there's not much to be confused about :P
[22:14:06] <zackkk> what im trying to do is if its less than 53
[22:14:09] <Honk^away> just create the classes, the fields, methods, ... and fix it all together ;)
[22:14:19] <zackkk> and odd
[22:14:23] <zackkk> it prints 5 to 51
[22:14:28] <Lars_G> zackkk: And what is written in that while () condition right now?
[22:14:38] <zackkk> counter > 53
[22:14:46] <Lars_G> And that means?
[22:14:56] <Lars_G> That counter is GREATER than 53...
[22:14:57] <Lars_G> which is not.
[22:15:00] <zackkk> ERR
[22:15:02] <zackkk> bleh
[22:15:05] <Lars_G> counter starts at 5.
[22:15:17] <zackkk> alright
[22:15:23] <Lars_G> zackkk: :) np, second error.. you want to print only odd numbers right?
[22:15:25] <zackkk> sorry i got strung up
[22:15:28] <zackkk> yeah.
[22:15:48] <Lars_G> zackkk: But, do you want to increment the counter only when the number is odd? or do you always want to increment the counter in the loop?
[22:16:27] <Honk^away> zackkk: btw.. there's != too ;)
[22:16:33] <zackkk> when the number is odd, and if it is odd increment it to the next odd number
[22:16:50] <Lars_G> As a response, the counter should always increment... because if you increment only at odd numbers, then you'll have an even number, and it will never increment again.
[22:16:56] <Honk^away> if you dont feel like writing !(==) all the time :)
[22:17:10] <zackkk> so i should counter+2
[22:17:16] <zackkk> instead of incrementing?
[22:17:20] <Lars_G> zackkk: No, that's not the real solution.
[22:17:29] <Lars_G> zackkk: Your counter tells you where you currently are.
[22:17:52] <Lars_G> zackkk: So you must increment/walk it completely, one by one... and then decide whether to print given where you are.
[22:17:53] <Honk^away> Lars_G: it's a working solution as well :P
[22:18:07] *** ThJ has joined ##java
[22:18:19] <Lars_G> zackkk: So, the response is, take the counter outside the IF block, but leave it inside the while loop.
[22:18:43] <Lars_G> Honk^away: It'd work yes, and as a professor I'd take points from such a solution, and expect his professor would too
[22:18:54] <zackkk> ahhh
[22:19:45] <ThJ> i need to compress RGBA image data for tcp transport, i'm open to any good codec, suggestions?
[22:19:45] <ArcTuRuX> Honk^away: i'll start putting it together in pieces and paste to pastebin, so you can tell me if im messing up or not :P
[22:20:03] <Lars_G> ThJ: JPG and PNG
[22:20:19] <Lars_G> ThJ: For "moving" images (video) MJPEG
[22:20:39] <Honk^away> Lars_G: huh?
[22:20:39] <Honk^away> why?
[22:20:46] <ThJ> Lars_G: not moving images.
[22:20:47] <ArcTuRuX> Honk^away: stop me if im wrong, but im supposed to create a method that will recieve an array size and number of dimensions, that will in turn create the two arrays, and populate with null values?
[22:20:48] <Lars_G> Honk^away: Why what?
[22:20:54] <Honk^away> incrementing by 2 is not a bad solution to the problem
[22:20:58] <Honk^away> it's the better one actually ;)
[22:21:09] <ThJ> good packages in java api for jpeg and png encoding are...?
[22:21:19] <Lars_G> Honk^away: No it's not, there is the possibility of creating an infinite loop.
[22:21:38] <Honk^away> Lars_G: huh?
[22:21:44] <Honk^away> you'd just skip the if completely
[22:21:45] <ernimril> ThJ: ImageIO.write perhapsh
[22:21:49] <Honk^away> hence no infinite loop
[22:22:10] <Lars_G> well yes, that's an option, if you skip the if.
[22:22:11] <Honk^away> ArcTuRuX: populating with 0 is done implicitely ;)
[22:22:18] <Honk^away> and that's supposed to be a constructor, not a method :)
[22:22:27] *** wobster has joined ##java
[22:22:38] <Honk^away> (and it will create #dimensions arrays, not 2)
[22:22:38] <{Mike}> bit more of a linux than java question: How can I tell what is running on port 5000, currently?
[22:22:39] <Lars_G> ThJ: Sorry I don't go so far yet.
[22:22:52] *** negnoire101 has quit IRC
[22:22:52] <Honk^away> {Mike}: netstat
[22:22:52] <Lars_G> {Mike}: a) off topic. b) netstat
[22:22:56] <ArcTuRuX> Honk^away: should I make up an array then? like say my dimensions are 3, and array size 5, and go from there?
[22:22:56] <ernimril> {Mike}: lsof or netstat
[22:24:12] *** linuxfreck has joined ##java
[22:24:19] <ThJ> does ImageIO support JPEG?
[22:24:44] <spyromus> ThJ, yup
[22:25:06] <Lars_G> thehil: Btw I googled for "encode jpg java" and got this: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/guide/2d/api-jpeg/com/sun/image/codec/jpeg/JPEGImageEncoder.html
[22:25:10] <ernimril> ThJ: ImageIO.getWritersForNames
[22:25:11] <spyromus> ThJ: it has method to return available formats
[22:25:13] <Lars_G> ThJ: That was for you, sorry
[22:25:42] <Lars_G> ThJ: Sorry dissregard me... that belongs to com.sun which should be used sparingly.
[22:25:45] <ernimril> Lars_G: using sun classes is not very nice...
[22:26:00] <Lars_G> ernimril: I already apologized for it....
[22:26:07] <Lars_G> ernimril: You write slow. :P ;)
[22:26:12] <Peter> can anyone recomend a good java ide for osx? :)
[22:26:19] <ernimril> Lars_G: well, on my screen they are in the right order...
[22:26:35] <spyromus> Peter: intellij idea, eclipse
[22:26:38] <ThJ> i know of the com.sun classes
[22:26:42] <Lars_G> ernimril: Not on mine.
[22:26:44] <ThJ> which i indeed were trying to avoid
[22:26:45] <cybereal> Peter: depends on your taste but uh, I like Eclipse
[22:26:51] <Lars_G> Peter: Eclipse
[22:26:58] <ernimril> Lars_G: I understood that...
[22:27:01] <Peter> ok :)
[22:27:08] <Lars_G> ernimril: I understood that you understood that...
[22:27:27] <Lars_G> Oh gods, I'm contaminated now, on the workstation and I miss my iBook... grrr
[22:27:37] <slava> you miss the slow sped?
[22:27:38] <slava> speed*
[22:27:40] <{Mike}> note to self: in java, when using threads, learn to close them when someone goes wrong, or mysterious ports start getting sucked up :D
[22:27:41] <Peter> is xcode no good for java?
[22:27:52] <Lars_G> slava: No, I miss expose. I miss a lot of stuff.
[22:28:02] <Lars_G> Peter: Xcode is good, but many find it's editor lacking.
[22:28:21] <Peter> hmph
[22:28:37] <cybereal> Lars_G: I miss expose too; I'm really hoping microsoft rips that one off for Vista
[22:28:41] <cybereal> it would make me buy vista
[22:28:42] <Lars_G> Peter: Eclipse is free, download it, try XCode, try Eclipse, try NetBeans (free too), and decide for yourself.
[22:29:09] <Lars_G> cybereal: Microsoft takes years to rip things... took them what, two years to take Opera's tabs into IE?
[22:29:34] <cybereal> Lars_G: dunno, opera has had tabs for a long time, I think longer than 2 years, but you do have a point
[22:29:38] <mrsmiley> wait IE now has a tabbing feature?
[22:29:40] <Lars_G> Peter: "which is better" is in many cases subjetive.
[22:29:57] <tang^> Lars_G: mind you, they weren't doing any IE development for a portion of that time
[22:29:58] <Lars_G> mrsmiley: IE 7, will only be available for XP and Vista
[22:30:09] <mrsmiley> saddly, I am on XP :(
[22:30:13] <tang^> mrsmiley: the msn toolbar will add it in
[22:30:19] <Lars_G> cybereal: Btw doesn't Vista has built in multiple virtual desktops?
[22:30:20] <mrsmiley> ah
[22:30:26] <Peter> does the xcode java compiler need to be set up? or does it work out the box
[22:30:32] <Lars_G> cybereal: How long has that been available in so many X11 based WMs?
[22:30:44] <ernimril> Lars_G: XP has support for virtual desktops, but you are not allowed to use them...
[22:30:48] *** xbmodder_school has joined ##java
[22:31:06] <Lars_G> ernimril: Great XP came out what year? then let's look for the oldest WM with virtual desktops ;)
[22:31:14] <Lars_G> as I said it takes MS years to copy good stuff
[22:31:29] <xbmodder_school> how do I do if (x=1 and y=1)
[22:31:34] <Lars_G> OSS copies it in months ;)
[22:31:40] <spyromus> ok, guys, have a good time! c u
[22:32:01] *** spyromus has left ##java
[22:32:06] <cybereal> Lars_G: OSS still hasn't managed to properly rip off expose though :-/
[22:32:18] <cybereal> some nice attempts but nothing as good as the real thing
[22:32:29] <slava> i don't use expose anymore
[22:32:33] <slava> it seemed fun at first but now i just use the dock
[22:33:30] *** hatOFF has joined ##java
[22:34:07] <ernimril> cybereal: why would you want expose? (well, I do not have any startbar, any systray, any iconbox, any icons on the desktop, basically no nothing)
[22:34:52] <cybereal> ernimril: because I my work environment often consists of 12-15 windows that are impossible to quickly identify on a taskbar; with expose I can easily identify them quickly to find the one I need.  I like it.
[22:35:26] <ernimril> cybereal: I do not have any taskbar, I have enough virtual desktops to never every minimize windows
[22:35:36] <ernimril> cybereal: I just flip screen...
[22:35:39] <cybereal> ernimril: I don't like virtual desktops
[22:35:48] <cybereal> I forget about which one has what stuff and so forth
[22:36:05] *** wobster has quit IRC
[22:36:37] *** chippy has quit IRC
[22:38:10] *** ThJ has quit IRC
[22:38:48] <slava> why does resiszing a window on os x take up to a minute?
[22:38:52] <slava> it just sits there with a spinning beachball
[22:38:57] <slava> then finally resizes
[22:39:13] <cybereal> slava: what application?
[22:39:16] <zackkk> because, mac wants to be different!
[22:39:17] <ArcTuRuX> cuz opengl blows :P
[22:39:19] <slava> jedi
[22:39:20] <slava> jedit*
[22:39:23] <slava> but any application really
[22:39:28] <ArcTuRuX> directx! w00t!
[22:39:30] <cybereal> I find that behavior to be application specific
[22:39:33] * ArcTuRuX is kidding
[22:39:38] <cybereal> slava: did you try jedit with that jar you sent me?
[22:40:54] <slava> no that's not the issue
[22:40:59] <slava> it might be very slow font metrics or something
[22:41:34] <cybereal> I don't know.. when I was using OS X that sort of thing happened in certain apps, mainly third party stuff that wasn't really cocoa based (firefox, java apps)
[22:42:05] *** Honk^away has quit IRC
[22:42:06] *** chippy has joined ##java
[22:42:33] <slava> what does "not really cocoa based" mean?
[22:42:45] <slava> java and cocoa both run on top of carbon
[22:43:01] <cybereal> slava: apps that don't use the native widgets
[22:43:39] <cybereal> Firefox skins its own buttons and so forth; Swing is not native widgets.
[22:43:53] <slava> what are "native widgets"?
[22:43:59] <cybereal> slava: 'heavy'
[22:44:02] *** MindZEye has quit IRC
[22:44:05] <slava> what?
[22:44:20] *** aless has joined ##java
[22:44:20] *** ThinkNOLA has joined ##java
[22:44:22] <slava> the aqua widgets are drawn with a carbon library... just like firefox draws widgets and just like swing draws widgets
[22:44:23] *** Honk^away has joined ##java
[22:44:31] <slava> there's nothing 'native' about them
[22:44:51] <cybereal> GUI widgets drawn by the application vs. being drawn by the platform's GUI toolkit
[22:45:00] <slava> the GUI toolkit is a library loaded by the application
[22:45:11] *** timing has left ##java
[22:45:19] <cybereal> I'm sorry you are having a hard time comprehending this concept slava but I am too busy to give a tutorial, try googling on it.
[22:45:27] *** Gorbulas|iBook has joined ##java
[22:45:36] <slava> cybereal: you're a dumbass
[22:45:40] <Gorbulas|iBook> hello
[22:46:01] <ernimril> cybereal: it is more the other way around, slava is a couple of steps ahead of you...
[22:46:34] <Gorbulas|iBook> I noticed that Properties is a one dimensional structure that can only handle strings, and does not support those fancy generalization things( <K, V>)
[22:46:55] <ernimril> Gorbulas|iBook: and yet Properties return Object...
[22:46:57] <Gorbulas|iBook> is there a better class for doing a similar job with more dimensions?
[22:47:19] <ernimril> Gorbulas|iBook: myprops.get ("some.structured.Property")
[22:47:19] <Gorbulas|iBook> it returns Object, but it is no different from a HashMap once you put a nonString in it
[22:48:06] <Gorbulas|iBook> it won't look like nice XML if I do stuff like users.user1 users.user2 users.user3
[22:48:25] <ernimril> Gorbulas|iBook: if you want xml use xml...
[22:48:26] <Gorbulas|iBook> <users><user>1</user><user>2</user></users> makes more sense
[22:48:46] <ernimril> Gorbulas|iBook: and why you would like xml is another question...
[22:48:57] *** joered has quit IRC
[22:49:00] <Gorbulas|iBook> it is for a configuration file
[22:49:17] <Gorbulas|iBook> so it should be either INI or XML so it isn't some strange format
[22:49:30] <cybereal> Gorbulas|iBook: usually for repeating elements I see this idiom: app.name.1 app.name.2 and so on
[22:49:43] <cybereal> Gorbulas|iBook: you can always use xml for your config files, nobody's stopping you
[22:50:10] <cheeser> i still find it easier to use properties files.
[22:50:13] *** cilquirm has joined ##java
[22:52:27] *** shadewind has quit IRC
[22:56:19] *** xbmodder_school has quit IRC
[22:57:44] <hatOFF> !seen mohadib
[22:57:49] <Drone> mohadib (mohadib!n=mohadib at 67-41-102-162 dot albq.qwest.net) was last seen in ##java on Tue 18 Oct 2005 07:32 GMT, saying 'good night'.
[22:58:01] <hatOFF> !time
[22:58:21] *** Frederick has quit IRC
[22:58:22] <Gorbulas|iBook> 20:58 UTC
[22:58:26] <Gorbulas|iBook> on Tuesday
[22:58:49] <slava> !time
[22:59:28] <kinabalu> i wonder, would it make sense while developing one section of a major app, to turn off spring-controlled objects for all other sections .. to speed up the reloading ..
[22:59:31] <Gorbulas|iBook> should be about 14 hours after he left?
[22:59:55] *** Amnesiac has joined ##java
[22:59:57] <Gorbulas|iBook> might be different if the server uses DST
[23:00:07] <slava> might make sense to turn off spring
[23:00:30] <kinabalu> slava: oh phooey .. then i'd have to actually write all that shit myself .. no thanks :)
[23:01:52] *** ArcTuRuX has quit IRC
[23:03:15] *** conan has joined ##java
[23:03:23] <slava> kinabalu: i'm working with objective C right now, it has no meaningful code reloading at all... its a pain in the ass
[23:03:31] <Gorbulas|iBook> Preferences would be nice if it wasn't going to put the settings somewhere unknown
[23:03:36] <Amnesiac> 'lo slava
[23:03:36] <slava> i have to recompile and restart the app to test each change...
[23:04:05] *** Tartaros has quit IRC
[23:05:49] *** NOthsouth has joined ##java
[23:06:12] <slava> recompiling is so fucking slow...
[23:06:43] *** djlogan has joined ##java
[23:06:43] <Sou|cutter> slava: how slow?
[23:06:57] <djlogan> has anybody ever heard of Gnu.classpath.Core ?
[23:06:58] <slava> about 15 seconds to recompile a couple of changed files, and relink
[23:07:01] <slava> another 5 seconds to start the app
[23:07:06] <slava> that's just unacceptable
[23:07:15] <Lars_G> everybody loves slava
[23:07:37] *** zackkk has quit IRC
[23:07:48] <Lars_G> slava: do you love slava?
[23:08:20] <Sou|cutter> slava: 20 seconds... *big shrug*
[23:08:28] <Lars_G> slava: And if you do, does your recursion have a stop case?
[23:08:53] <slava> in factor i press a single key and the file is reloaded into the running app instantly
[23:08:56] <Sou|cutter> slava: I remember a few years ago working with C++ builds that took hours
[23:09:16] <terence_> is there recomendable way to log performance measures in a file?
[23:09:23] <Lars_G> Sou|cutter: Ask cheeser, he still compiles C for hours.. he uses gentoo
[23:09:30] <Sou|cutter> ~Lars_G++
[23:09:31] <javabot> lars_g has a karma level of 10, Sou|cutter
[23:09:48] <slava> Sou|cutter: there is no reason people should still be using tools that require a recompile/restart to reload sources in 2005
[23:09:50] <hatOFF> vreun roman pe aici?
[23:10:08] <Lars_G> hatOFF: try again, in english.
[23:10:17] <Sou|cutter> Lars_G: I actually like gentoo, though.  Really compiling stuff is rather invisible (unless you get a broken ebuild).. and portage in general is cool
[23:10:27] <slava> those 20 seconds add up when debugging pointer bugs, etc
[23:10:47] <Lars_G> Sou|cutter: I used gentoo, and I like it, dependencies in gentoo are non stoppers. but it took too long to update so I gave up
[23:11:03] <Sou|cutter> Lars_G: better for servers I think than desktops
[23:11:11] <Lars_G> Sou|cutter: Yup.
[23:11:15] <Sou|cutter> as always YMMV
[23:11:18] <Lars_G> Sou|cutter: Now, enjoy this: http://thedailywtf.com/forums/47011/ShowPost.aspx
[23:11:18] <hatOFF> Lars_G: i need help
[23:11:25] <hatOFF> :)
[23:11:37] <Lars_G> ~tell hatOFF about ask
[23:11:38] <javabot> hatOFF, The Ask To Ask protocol wastes more bandwidth than any version of the Ask protocol, so just ask your question.
[23:11:39] <Lars_G> :)
[23:11:39] <NOthsouth> does someone kwno some site to Get paid to solve problems like java, C, flash, webdesigner etc... ??
[23:11:41] <cybereal> Sou|cutter: I worked somewhere where we all used gentoo so we all setup distcc and it made the updates less painful
[23:11:58] <cybereal> NOthsouth: get a job?
[23:12:02] <hatOFF> i know, i wasn't asking anything... just said I need help :)
[23:12:09] <Lars_G> :)
[23:12:10] <hatOFF> and kindly, private help.
[23:12:14] *** Mot has quit IRC
[23:12:15] <Sou|cutter> slava: I dunno, 20 seconds is a pretty big improvement over the days of yore.  I think it's ok...
[23:12:19] <NOthsouth> cybereal, no.. something more like freelancer
[23:12:27] <slava> Sou|cutter: its a pretty big downgrade over zero seconds that i'm used to.
[23:12:30] <Sou|cutter> cybereal: that would be very handy
[23:12:33] <cybereal> NOthsouth: there are a few sites like that
[23:12:33] <hatOFF> i'm not going to reveal my $1,000,000 dollar ideea into a public channel
[23:12:34] <hatOFF> :)
[23:12:36] *** izik has quit IRC
[23:12:45] <cybereal> Sou|cutter: if you go to the trouble you can even get windows boxen to help with distcc
[23:12:52] <cybereal> Sou|cutter: just have to setup cross compiler and stuff
[23:12:52] <NOthsouth> cybereal, can you tell me somes?
[23:12:52] <Lars_G> and will you share the $1m with the person who helps you?
[23:12:58] <NOthsouth> i alredy get in once.. but i ca't remember
[23:13:17] <NOthsouth> thecoders somthing..
[23:13:18] <cybereal> NOthsouth: can't think of the names off the top of my head as in my experience, they all suck :)
[23:13:41] <NOthsouth> hum
[23:13:49] <NOthsouth> any idea how should i google for?
[23:13:55] *** alex_f has quit IRC
[23:14:20] <hatOFF> but of course, that's why i need help.
[23:15:05] <cybereal> NOthsouth: I googled "programming work" and didn't get much in the results but the ads has elance.com ... there's one
[23:15:26] *** djlogan has left ##java
[23:15:37] <cybereal> programming freelance gets a bunch of results
[23:16:21] <slava> NOthsouth: sure you want a programming job? you'll have to deal with retarded enterprise architects
[23:16:29] <slava> better to get a job that involves programming on the side
[23:16:39] *** sKUrZ0 has joined ##java
[23:16:42] *** DpakoH has joined ##java
[23:17:39] <kinabalu> slava: no meaningful code reloading?  so it sucks? :)
[23:17:50] <slava> kinabalu: yes, but cocoa is a nice API
[23:17:54] <Lars_G> hatOFF: No, but NOthsouth seems interested.
[23:18:02] <kinabalu> slava: what are you building?
[23:18:02] <Lars_G> hatOFF: Btw I'm PM anal retentive.
[23:18:14] *** Mot has joined ##java
[23:18:15] <slava> kinabalu: CAD program
[23:18:21] *** NOthsouth has quit IRC
[23:18:22] <kinabalu> crazy
[23:18:31] <Lars_G> slava: big project
[23:18:32] <slava> well the program is built, i got hired to fix some bugs
[23:18:39] <hatOFF> i find guys that are using mIRC and not accepting PM's... broken.
[23:18:52] <ernimril> slava: what cad program?
[23:19:01] <slava> i'm not sure i can reveal that
[23:19:14] <Lars_G> hatOFF: A) I am using x-chat, not mIRC, b) I preffer to be asked for permission before being PMed
[23:19:16] <hatOFF> but since you're using xchat I can understand :)
[23:19:20] <Lars_G> hatOFF: C) Fuck off asshole.
[23:19:29] <hatOFF> oh, get a life.
[23:19:30] <ernimril> slava: ok... I work with gis/nis, it has pieces of cad in it...
[23:19:34] <Gorbulas|iBook> I used Cocoa some, but I never used it very much because I don't care for ObjectiveC
[23:19:40] *** aless has quit IRC
[23:19:43] <slava> objC is nicer than java...
[23:19:46] <Gorbulas|iBook> I'm not even that good at real C
[23:19:47] <hatOFF> i won't wonder if u'r going to start packeting me
[23:19:50] <hatOFF> :)
[23:19:54] <Lars_G> slava: And much much much saner than C++
[23:19:55] <ernimril> slava: this is what I do: http://www.digpro.com/Articles/Produkter/fs_e.html
[23:20:01] <Gorbulas|iBook> mIRC stinks imo
[23:20:04] <slava> Lars_G: indeed
[23:20:06] *** mrsmiley has left ##java
[23:20:25] <Sou|cutter> Lars_G: LOL, that dailywtf looks like something I would do on a homework assignment
[23:20:37] <Lars_G> ~eye Sou|cutter
[23:20:37] * javabot eyes Sou|cutter
[23:21:08] <slava> Lars_G: obj-C has dynamic typing and reflection...
[23:21:17] <Sou|cutter> I was a ... difficult student.  I always would interpret requirements 'differently' (but in such a way that I could justify fulfilling the req)
[23:21:54] <slava> i don't understand why people bother with a CS degree
[23:21:59] <Sou|cutter> my creative interpretation was out of disdain for the educational system more than my lackwittedness
[23:24:02] <Lars_G> slava: Because most prospective employers need the paper piece as a filtering system
[23:24:03] *** alex_f has joined ##java
[23:24:19] <slava> Lars_G: that's a form of mind-conditioning then
[23:24:29] <slava> people feel they need to waste 4 years to get a job, when in fact this is not true
[23:25:18] <Gorbulas|iBook> but it sounds like it is much harder to get hired if you haven't completed college, whether you learned from it or not
[23:25:42] <slava> oh sure, get a degree
[23:25:43] <slava> just not CS
[23:25:58] <Gorbulas|iBook> what degree should I get?
[23:26:07] <ciaron> whats everyones personal choice of framework combo if they were to start a new web app project from scratch today?
[23:26:09] <slava> math, science, whatever
[23:26:16] <Gorbulas|iBook> whatever?
[23:26:17] <jwormy> ohh geeze.. it's meeting time..
[23:26:28] <slava> but you can learn more CS by reading books and coding on your own than taking a CS degree
[23:26:32] * jwormy removes the kj jelly from his nightstand.. and puts up the fluffy handcuffs
[23:26:35] <slava> learn something that's more challenging
[23:26:40] <Gorbulas|iBook> get a degree in Mmarine
[23:26:43] <Gorbulas|iBook> oops
[23:26:51] <Gorbulas|iBook> marine biology
[23:27:00] <Gorbulas|iBook> and then go into programming?
[23:27:03] <jwormy> get a degree in womens studies
[23:27:46] <kinabalu> ~jwormy++
[23:27:46] <javabot> jwormy has a karma level of 25, kinabalu
[23:28:01] <slava> Gorbulas|iBook: sure
[23:28:02] <kinabalu> must learn of the ancient art of poonanny .. before studying computers so you get sex
[23:28:34] <cheeser> back to java, gents.
[23:28:48] <Gorbulas|iBook> I would at least like to spend college studying something remotely interesting, however
[23:28:54] *** Uvizor has joined ##java
[23:28:57] <slava> CS is not remoetly interesting to study in college
[23:29:04] <slava> unless you've done zero programming before you begin
[23:29:09] <Gorbulas|iBook> :(
[23:29:19] <slava> in which case you'll never be good because is too late to start
[23:29:25] <slava> just like if you start learning a foreign language its hard if you're older
[23:29:26] <cheeser> blah blah blah
[23:29:27] <cheeser> back to java.
[23:29:51] * jwormy hugs cheeser
[23:30:33] <Lars_G> cheeser: Do you want rubbing alcohol?
[23:30:34] *** teralaser has quit IRC
[23:30:40] *** terence_ has quit IRC
[23:30:45] <Lars_G> Wow, teralaser is the missing link?
[23:30:47] <cheeser> Lars_G: i have some.  why?
[23:30:54] <Lars_G> cheeser: * jwormy hugs cheeser
[23:31:04] <cheeser> ah.  disinfectant.
[23:31:05] *** hatOFF is now known as hAt0ff
[23:31:28] <Lars_G> cheeser: Hey I know!!
[23:31:33] <Lars_G> cheeser: Make me an OP, let's have fun
[23:31:38] <Gorbulas|iBook> :)
[23:31:40] *** hAt0ff is now known as hatOFF
[23:31:43] * Lars_G feels the room cringe
[23:31:58] <Lars_G> sigh
[23:32:16] <Lars_G> have you ever found yourself reviewing your own code and thinking "what the hell was I trying to do?"
[23:32:40] <cybereal> Lars_G: I just did that today; made bugfixes on things nobody but I knew about :)
[23:32:56] <Gorbulas|iBook> I'm lucky enough to not need to look at my old code
[23:32:58] <Lars_G> cybereal: Thanfully you got them before they got out
[23:33:08] <Lars_G> Gorbulas|iBook: dude, this code is 2 days old....
[23:33:13] <Gorbulas|iBook> lol
[23:33:24] <Lars_G> But, I'll excuse myself by saying I was veyr tired and half drunk
[23:33:26] <Gorbulas|iBook> my memory must be a little sharper
[23:33:35] <cybereal> Lars_G: definitely;  fortunately I'm the only one using that part of the code in my project at the moment
[23:33:56] <Gorbulas|iBook> and I've been forcing myself to document this code now
[23:34:02] <Lars_G> Gorbulas|iBook: Good practice.
[23:34:23] <slava> i rewrite a lot of code
[23:34:31] <Lars_G> Is it me, or is Netbeans getting really good?
[23:34:33] *** jor has quit IRC
[23:34:47] <Lars_G> slava: I predict your answer, you can skip it :)
[23:34:51] <cybereal> Lars_G: have they released any updates recently?
[23:35:00] <cybereal> Lars_G: last time I used it was january
[23:35:04] *** hongry_ has joined ##java
[23:35:05] <slava> Lars_G: no, i like documenting my code
[23:35:09] <hongry_> hello folks
[23:35:10] <cheeser> i've heard good things about it.  it still uses that crappy metal L&F last I checked.
[23:35:13] <ernimril> Lars_G: do they have full emacs keybindings yet?
[23:35:14] <cheeser> hey hongry_
[23:35:42] <Lars_G> slava: No, I meant regarding netbeans.
[23:35:44] <hongry_> I just finished working on a program that I wrote in UNIX, and now I want to run it on a windows box.  What do I need to do?  The windows box, AFAIK, does not have a java compiler.
[23:35:52] <Lars_G> ernimril: eeewww, you're gross
[23:35:57] <slava> Lars_G: last time i tried it, it had serious performance problems
[23:36:09] <ernimril> Lars_G: ok, what about vi then?
[23:36:11] <Gorbulas|iBook> hongry_: compile it on Linux, and then move the .jar files or .class files to Windows
[23:36:15] <Lars_G> hongry_: If it's compiled you only need a JRE wich most windwows boxes have
[23:36:33] <slava> ernimril: cocoa supports emacs key bindings in all text components :)
[23:36:34] <Lars_G> ernimril: Better much better, I don't know to be sincere.
[23:36:37] <Lars_G> Grrrr
[23:36:37] <hongry_> if the program has multiple .class files, can i just move the one with teh main() function.?
[23:36:54] <Gorbulas|iBook> hongry_:
[23:36:56] <Gorbulas|iBook> oops
[23:36:56] <Lars_G> Software vendors should adopt a std atom/rss based new version anoucement methodology
[23:37:06] <Lars_G> hongry_: No, you will need all of them
[23:37:12] <Gorbulas|iBook> hongry_: no. you need to move all the class files that are part of the program
[23:37:36] <Lars_G> I am tired of trying to remember to check for my 12 something paid for software to see new versions I'm entitled to
[23:37:37] <chippy> Im loving the new Netbeans 5.0
[23:37:42] <chippy> and the mobility pack is good too
[23:37:45] <Lars_G> And no, I don't want to recieve update emails, they're spam
[23:37:58] <Gorbulas|iBook> Atom/rss is overkill if you only have periodic updates
[23:37:58] <Lars_G> Awww panda is not around
[23:38:09] <Lars_G> Gorbulas|iBook: Not periodic
[23:38:09] <chippy> netbeans is great for j2ee dev, with its built in tomcat and http server
[23:38:11] <Gorbulas|iBook> if it was SVN, then that could be worth doing
[23:38:24] <chippy> its got svn module, yeah
[23:38:30] *** sfb has joined ##java
[23:38:36] <slava> does 5.0 fix the serious performance issues?
[23:38:39] <Gorbulas|iBook> SVN would be nice with an RSS feed
[23:38:41] <slava> they seem like showstoppers to me
[23:38:44] <Lars_G> Gorbulas|iBook: commercial vendors don't beleive either in svn and/or bittorrent
[23:39:00] <chippy> its running ok on mine slava.... netbeans 3 was a hog, but its pretty fast now
[23:39:04] <Gorbulas|iBook> they shouldn't do Bittorrent imo
[23:39:04] <Lars_G> slava: Do you only use jedit? it could get very heavy last time I checked.
[23:39:14] <chippy> i think it does a lot of stuff in the background too in this release
[23:39:19] <Lars_G> slava: So far eclipse and NB scale better than jedit though they DO begin being slower
[23:39:26] <Gorbulas|iBook> people bought the software, they should foot the bandwidth costs
[23:39:29] <sfb> Can anyone help point me to a page that'll help me get going with Tapestry? I can't seem to get Tomcat 5.0 to parse the tags.
[23:39:40] <slava> Lars_G: how do they scale better?
[23:39:41] <cheeser> sfb: the tuts on the home page?
[23:39:45] <slava> Lars_G: i don't use any plugins
[23:39:46] <Lars_G> Gorbulas|iBook: It's not the bandwidth costs dude. it's the download speed
[23:39:52] <Lars_G> slava: Ah ok, that explains a lot
[23:39:56] <sfb> cheeser: I'm following them, but they don't speak about setting up your environment.
[23:40:04] <Gorbulas|iBook> but they should be able to put up fast download servers
[23:40:09] <slava> Lars_G: well i use console, but that's about it
[23:40:24] <cheeser> sfb: ah.  i haven't used it so I can't comment too much.
[23:40:28] <Lars_G> Gorbulas|iBook: No matter how fast, the bittorrent distributed architecture always ends up being faster.
[23:40:33] <cheeser> but some set up problems are generic.
[23:40:37] <cheeser> what are you having problems with?
[23:40:39] <MrPrimate> I am having a terrible time with a JList, where I add items to the model, and they don't show up... they will only show up if I remove the JList from the container and add it again....    what do I call to force it to draw in the new items ??
[23:40:56] <cheeser> MrPrimate: fire an update event on the JList
[23:41:17] <sfb> cheeser: Well, I put the tapestry jars in my JDK lib and restarted Tomcat and used Eclipse to deploy my html to the server.
[23:41:19] <MrPrimate> cheeser, i'll give that a try, thx
[23:41:22] <slava> Lars_G: i'd like to find or write a lighter editor one day, though.
[23:41:26] <sfb> The new HTML showed up but the Tapestry tags were not parsed.
[23:41:28] <cheeser> sfb: in your jdk lib?
[23:41:37] <cheeser> they should most likely be in WEB-INF/lib
[23:41:45] <Lars_G> slava: Of jedit? you could start trimming current jedit down, removing unnecesary stuff and simplifying.
[23:41:48] *** _kmh_ has quit IRC
[23:41:54] <slava> Lars_G: no, non-java
[23:42:00] <Lars_G> slava: Ok, that could work to.
[23:42:07] <sfb> C:\jdk1.4.2_09\lib
[23:42:07] <Lars_G> slava: Make it obj-c so it's portable to cocoa :)
[23:42:08] <slava> Lars_G: jedit is about as small/fast as it can be in java
[23:42:15] <slava> Lars_G: no, i'd write it in factor
[23:42:16] <sfb> Hmn.
[23:42:22] <Lars_G> slava: Dude, one question, what drove you to start jedit?
[23:42:30] <Lars_G> slava: I haven't met factor yet
[23:42:32] <Gorbulas|iBook> but Objective C still isn't all the portable
[23:42:35] <slava> a dislike for emacs and vi
[23:42:46] <Lars_G> slava: And why java?
[23:42:48] *** Ulgar has quit IRC
[23:42:48] <Gorbulas|iBook> the code will port, but you still need the drawing systems for GUI work
[23:42:54] <slava> Lars_G: beucase it was all i knew at the time
[23:43:08] <cheeser> sfb: put them in your war dir like you're supposed to
[23:43:09] <Lars_G> Gorbulas|iBook: That's when you separate presentation from backend, and create presentation modules.
[23:43:20] <Lars_G> slava: Where can I learn on Factor?
[23:43:23] <cheeser> sfb: you should never add jars to the jre's lib dirs unless you know why
[23:43:30] <slava> Lars_G: factor.sf.net
[23:43:34] <Lars_G> slava: Thankas
[23:43:42] <Lars_G> s/ka/k/
[23:44:12] <Lars_G> slava: Hmmm the first description is similar to Lua's
[23:44:20] <slava> does lua have a compileR?
[23:44:23] <slava> s/R/r
[23:44:29] * sfb will give it a try.
[23:44:37] <Lars_G> let me check, I'm unsure if it's compiled or interpreted
[23:45:10] <Lars_G> slava: VM based, sorry
[23:45:43] *** Blackwell has joined ##java
[23:45:54] <sfb> Oddly enough it appears to be there in my Eclipse project.
[23:46:07] <Lars_G> slava: Ah, factor is your child.
[23:46:11] <Lars_G> slava: How old is it?
[23:46:17] <slava> 2 years
[23:46:21] <Lars_G> slava: Is it self compiling already?
[23:46:24] <slava> yes
[23:46:36] <slava> with a gui toolkit
[23:46:37] *** Fox_1_ has quit IRC
[23:46:38] <Gorbulas|iBook> ~javado javax.management
[23:46:39] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'tutorial javadoc' might be appropriate:
[23:46:41] <javabot> Gorbulas|iBook, tutorial javadoc is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.3/docs/tooldocs/solaris/javadoc.html
[23:46:54] <Gorbulas|iBook> ~javadoc javax.management
[23:46:54] <javabot> I don't know of any documentation for javax.management
[23:47:02] <Gorbulas|iBook> umm
[23:47:06] <Gorbulas|iBook> ~management
[23:47:06] <javabot> Gorbulas|iBook, I have no idea what management is.
[23:47:14] <Gorbulas|iBook> ~jmx
[23:47:14] <javabot> Gorbulas|iBook, jmx is Java Management Extensions
[23:47:20] <Lars_G> lol
[23:47:22] <Gorbulas|iBook> …
[23:47:36] <Lars_G> ~Java Management Extensions
[23:47:37] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'genericity in java 1.4' might be appropriate:
[23:47:39] <javabot> Lars_G, genericity in java 1.4 is The 1.4 jvm does not support genericity and the 1.5 javac does not produce 1.4-compatible bytecode from sources using genericity. However, there is an undocumented "-target jsr14" flag which combined with "-source 1.5" does what you need. Hopefully.
[23:47:40] <Gorbulas|iBook> doesn't javabot know of some guide?
[23:47:42] <Pi_Wizard> If I was using ant to compile a package, add it to a jar... compile a test using junit and then run the test using junit... how would i compile and run it using junit in ant?
[23:48:05] <cybereal> Lars_G: wonder how it picked that factoid for you
[23:48:22] *** linuxfreck has quit IRC
[23:48:27] <Gorbulas|iBook> javabot is on something…
[23:48:27] <javabot> Invalid factoid name
[23:48:57] *** sanj has quit IRC
[23:49:37] * Lars_G cries with laughter
[23:51:41] *** b14ck has joined ##java
[23:51:49] <Pi_Wizard> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/F8gIwM45.html that's the xml file, it messes up at line 20... i can manually compile it and run it
[23:52:00] *** ciaron has quit IRC
[23:52:18] *** lokkju has joined ##java
[23:52:46] <b14ck> I'm trying to change a string that looks like: "PING :something" into "PONG :something". I want to know if I can use the replace() method of strings with a String input. In the docs it says it takes in (CharSequence)'s
[23:53:12] <lokkju> hey all - I am working with nutch (the search engine thing), and am having a small problem - when it requests a URL, it is not urlescaping the filename it is requesting - My question is, is there a java-standard way of doing urlescaping on a string?
[23:53:27] <ernimril> b14ck: String in java is immutable, you can not change it, you can only create new strings
[23:53:37] <b14ck> ernimril, I know. I don't want to change it.
[23:53:43] <b14ck> I just want to get a string returned that is changed.
[23:54:00] <jcscoobyrs> lokkju: URL escaping?  Do you mean URL Encoding?
[23:54:03] <jcscoobyrs> There is a class to do that.
[23:54:09] <jcscoobyrs> ~javadoc URLEncoder
[23:54:09] <javabot> jcscoobyrs, please see java.net.URLEncoder: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/net/URLEncoder.html
[23:54:22] <b14ck> Like: String data = "PING :something" I want to use data.replace("PING", "PONG"); or something and have it return the strign I want.
[23:54:30] <cybereal> b14ck: "PING: hah".replaceFirst("I","O");
[23:54:50] <b14ck> thanks :)
[23:55:00] <cybereal> b14ck: please read the API doc on that method, it's using regular expressions
[23:55:11] *** Clackwell has quit IRC
[23:55:14] <lokkju> jcscoobyrs, no, that is for form and quesry data
[23:55:26] <b14ck> I read it, but the regex threw me off. I don't know any regex so I thought I couldn't use it;
[23:55:33] *** Blackwell is now known as Clackwell
[23:55:36] <lokkju> I need the one for FILENAMES - i.e. - converts a space to %20, but only converts what is neccisarry
[23:55:51] <cybereal> b14ck: the simplest regex is just a literal; all you need to watch out for is regular expression special characters
[23:56:01] <cybereal> b14ck: but if you're just matching a letter or a word you shouldn't have to worry
[23:56:03] <b14ck> thanks :)
[23:56:04] <slava> that's why regexes suck...
[23:56:18] <jcscoobyrs> lokkju: URLEncoder does that.
[23:56:18] *** ericP has quit IRC
[23:56:20] <cybereal> not to mention the potential for huge resource usage
[23:57:24] *** philosophia has quit IRC
[23:57:38] <lokkju> jcscoobyrs, URLEncoder converts a space to a "+"
[23:57:41] *** Geren has joined ##java
[23:57:43] <lokkju> totally different
[23:58:00] <Geren> i'm writing a server/client chatting program
[23:58:08] <jcscoobyrs> lokkju: Use a different encoding.
[23:58:15] <lokkju> URLEncoder is specifically meant for form and query data - the page even says so
[23:58:17] <Geren> and all it does is that whatever the client types will be displayed on the server's screen, and whatever the server types will be displayed on the client's screen
[23:58:31] <Geren> and i am having some trouble coordinating the input and output streams for both
[23:59:06] *** petroleum has quit IRC
[23:59:43] *** hongry_ has quit IRC