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[12:36:09] <cushty> does anyone know of a way of sharing information between instances in a clustered J2EE environment that does not involve a DB or JMS topics?
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[12:36:25] <cushty> DB = RDBMS or entity beans
[12:40:59] <vakYpollo> cushty: maybe using JNDI?
[12:41:18] <cushty> vakYpollo: ooo, good one
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[12:42:54] <elvin|coder> are there any libraries for j2me or j2me personal profile that work with wi-fi?
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[13:25:08] <manulite> hi, i'm curious to know how u'd write an app that supports plugins
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[13:25:33] <roots-> one option is to use osgi
[13:25:44] <roots-> simplest way is to just use URLClassLoader
[13:25:52] <roots-> depends on how yyour needs are
[13:26:02] <roots-> eg do you need to manage inter-plugins services and dependencies
[13:26:18] <roots-> do you need listener infrastructure for reployment of plugins with inter-dependencies
[13:27:40] <manulite> wont inter-plugins services and dependencies be easily managed by the plugins themselves
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[13:31:59] <terence_> hi
[13:34:10] <roots-> manulite: plugin B depends on A
[13:34:16] <roots-> now A gets redeployed
[13:34:33] <roots-> B might nned to react to that
[13:34:39] <roots-> what if A gets removed ?
[13:36:36] <manulite> i see what you mean, so the listener keeps a registry of plugins and their deps
[13:37:14] <roots-> what about services ?
[13:37:23] <roots-> eg plugin A offers a service
[13:37:38] <roots-> where to register it
[13:37:52] <roots-> where to pick it up
[13:38:19] <roots-> finally what about classpaths and how to limit visibility of classes or at least packages between plugins
[13:38:29] <roots-> though this is prolly the most advanced issue here and not required per se
[13:40:39] <Mazon> it would probably be wise to start of smaller instead of thinking about all possible scenarios until you get an idea of what capabilities you need from the plugin framework
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[13:41:05] <Mazon> there is such a thing as overengineering
[13:41:54] <roots-> i am not an engineer, so i wouldn't know
[13:45:22] <PhilKC> anyone about for a newbie question?
[13:50:47] <terence_> i roots- wasn't it you how told me sometime that a ke value in hashmaps hasn't more than 16 bit?
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[13:55:38] <ricky_clarkson> Guten Tag, meine Frauleins.
[13:57:35] * ricky_clarkson tries to think of systems where the user faces difficulties because of over-engineering, and comes up short.
[13:58:21] <terence_> ricky_clarkson:  what are you trying to say in german <g>
[13:58:40] <pchapman> ricky_clarkson, It's not usually the user that pays for over-engineering, but the project deadlines and budget.
[13:58:44] <cHaoTiCa> often the problem isn't caused by the over-engineering....it IS the over-engineering.  :)
[13:59:17] <pchapman> s/pays/suffers/
[13:59:44] <terence_> so this channel is useless?
[14:00:03] <ricky_clarkson> I think there are more problems with underengineering.
[14:00:07] <ricky_clarkson> The user sees those more.
[14:00:29] <cHaoTiCa> i've caught myself trying to analyze dissect every minute detail of things, and pretty much getting caught up in it
[14:00:53] <terence_> what do you think you can call swt engineering?
[14:00:54] <cHaoTiCa> +and
[14:01:12] <ricky_clarkson> terence_: SWT engineering.
[14:01:29] <terence_> caught up *sigh!
[14:01:45] <cHaoTiCa> terence_......wtf are you babbling about?
[14:03:45] <cHaoTiCa> never mind
[14:04:01] <terence_> that i need more than 16 bit to have and index on 500.000 items
[14:04:25] <cHaoTiCa> well.....yeah.  50000 > 32767
[14:04:36] <cHaoTiCa> err
[14:04:39] <ricky_clarkson> 500000>65536
[14:04:44] <cHaoTiCa> 500000 > 32767
[14:04:56] <terence_> yeah .. so it can't be possible that keys in hashmap only serve 16 bit?
[14:04:59] <ricky_clarkson> cHaoTiCa: 32767==2<<16-1
[14:05:06] <ricky_clarkson> Er, 2<<15-1
[14:05:22] <terence_> i would a least 30 bit
[14:05:35] <terence_> ^need
[14:05:39] <cHaoTiCa> this is java.  unsigned shorts don't exist, except as chars  :)
[14:05:47] <ricky_clarkson> terence_: Er, I doubt that they are 16-bit.  But really, you should consider a database.
[14:05:57] <ricky_clarkson> cHaoTiCa: He said 16 bits, he didn't say 15 bits.
[14:06:49] <terence_> and? hmm .. well 2^16= 65.536
[14:06:53] <cHaoTiCa> what does he care about bits for anyway?
[14:07:10] <terence_> i need to map 48 bit on the hash key
[14:07:17] <cHaoTiCa> terence_.... what do you care about bits for anyway?
[14:07:40] <cHaoTiCa> omfg
[14:07:50] <cHaoTiCa> you're STILL working on that crap?
[14:07:55] <ricky_clarkson> ~wayttd terence_
[14:07:55] <javabot> terence_, ricky_clarkson wants to know what you are trying to do.
[14:08:53] <terence_> at the moement i just want to map 48 bit mac for hash keys, and for now i need them generated randomly for testing
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[14:09:30] <terence_> random.nextByte()
[14:10:14] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[14:10:16] <cHaoTiCa> i chill now.
[14:11:36] <ricky_clarkson> terence_: You mean you want to store a 48-bit integer as the key in a hashmap?
[14:12:32] <terence_> i need to store s much bits of the 45 available that keeps the id unique in a rabge of 500.000
[14:12:51] <terence_> i meant 48 bits
[14:13:08] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell terence_ about make sense
[14:13:08] <javabot> terence_, make: *** No rule to make target `sense'.  Stop.
[14:20:37] <terence_> that shall work>> byte[] bytes = new byte[4];
[14:20:37] <terence_> 		randMac.nextBytes(bytes);
[14:20:37] <terence_> 		return bytes.hashCode();
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[14:25:14] <timerirq> hello all
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[14:25:30] <cHaoTiCa> ummm....will byte[].hashCode() return a hash code based on the bytes?  i don't remember it doing so
[14:26:15] <ricky_clarkson> Me neither.
[14:26:20] <cHaoTiCa> btw i'm back.  :)
[14:26:27] <ricky_clarkson> But terence_ won't reduce vagueness..
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[14:26:43] <cHaoTiCa> yeah.  he's been like that all along.
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[14:27:24] <cHaoTiCa> he's also been working on the same thing, at the same damned point, for going on a week now.
[14:27:28] <terence_> "Returns a hash code value for the object."
[14:27:44] <ricky_clarkson> terence_: So?
[14:27:46] <cHaoTiCa> for the _object_.
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[14:27:54] <cHaoTiCa> not necessarily the contents.
[14:28:07] <ricky_clarkson> terence_: It would be semantically incorrect for hashcode to depend on mutable data.
[14:29:28] <terence_> same content return same hashcode. that it must be made out of the value
[14:29:57] <terence_> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Object.html#hashCode()
[14:30:04] <cHaoTiCa> Whenever it is invoked on the same object more than once during an execution of a Java application, the hashCode method must consistently return the same integer, provided no information used in equals comparisons on the object is modified.
[14:30:09] <cHaoTiCa> thing is
[14:30:45] <ricky_clarkson> terence_: It would be semantically incorrect for hashcode to depend on mutable data.
[14:30:57] <cHaoTiCa> byte[].equals() doesn't use the bytes in its comparison, because it just uses the default .equals() of Object.
[14:31:15] <ricky_clarkson> That is also how it should be.
[14:31:17] <cHaoTiCa> so those bytes can change without affecting the hash code
[14:31:54] <timerirq> i need to write an event handler which will work on explorer and looks for a minimize and close event and will block it
[14:32:00] <timerirq> can i write it with apllets?
[14:32:15] <timerirq> can apllets handle the close or minimize signals?
[14:32:44] <ricky_clarkson> timerirq: Yes, but only closes of their OWN windows, not browser windows.
[14:32:54] <ricky_clarkson> timerirq: It sounds like you want JavaScript, or a better job.
[14:33:09] <timerirq> hmm
[14:33:31] <cHaoTiCa> will js even care about minimize events?
[14:33:46] <ricky_clarkson> JS probably won't know about them.
[14:33:51] <timerirq> ricky_clarkson we developed a kisok machine
[14:33:59] <timerirq> and it will run a standalone webserver
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[14:34:44] <timerirq> and with java we wont let the user close or minimize the explorer window
[14:35:09] <ricky_clarkson> Sounds like a job for ActiveX.
[14:35:12] <cHaoTiCa> timerirq.....you could write a simple web browser app mith very little trouble, assuming you know anything about com or .net
[14:35:23] <timerirq> .( nope
[14:35:31] <timerirq> iknow jus c and a little java
[14:35:38] <timerirq> ihope i can do it with java apllets
[14:35:44] <timerirq> but seems i cant.
[14:35:44] <ricky_clarkson> Nope.
[14:35:52] <cHaoTiCa> well, java won't do it on its own
[14:35:55] <ricky_clarkson> Applets are not intended to restrict users.
[14:36:09] <ricky_clarkson> See how internet cafes do it.
[14:36:13] <timerirq> ok then with the help of java and java apllet?
[14:36:26] <cHaoTiCa> java and java applet?
[14:36:33] <cHaoTiCa> ~make sense
[14:36:34] <javabot> make: *** No rule to make target `sense'.  Stop.
[14:36:50] <cHaoTiCa> :)
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[14:36:57] <cHaoTiCa> javabot == teh spiff
[14:36:58] <javabot> cHaoTiCa, I have no idea what == teh spiff is.
[14:37:08] <timerirq> hmm i mean with java
[14:37:13] <timerirq> not apletts
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[14:37:36] <alesan> hi
[14:37:42] <timerirq> then why im learning java ? we will write intraet applications soon
[14:37:44] <ricky_clarkson> ciao
[14:37:48] <cHaoTiCa> a java APP could catch minimize events.....but at that point you'd be writing your own browser
[14:38:06] <ricky_clarkson> timerirq: I don't know.
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[14:38:25] <ricky_clarkson> timerirq: See how internet cafes do it.
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[14:38:49] <timerirq> hmmm :)
[14:38:51] <timerirq> how ?
[14:38:54] <cHaoTiCa> i wasn't aware internet cafes even did that :)
[14:39:09] <ricky_clarkson> Ask them?  Google?
[14:39:20] <doc|work> we had one in php will called some sort of com event in the place I worked 6 years ago.
[14:39:25] <doc|work> s/will/which
[14:39:38] <doc|work> java could probably do the same
[14:40:16] <ricky_clarkson> cHaoTiCa: Yeah, they tend to provide a non-alterable browser window and stuff.
[14:40:21] <cHaoTiCa> it'd be kinda hard for php (a server-side language) to call com stuff in the client
[14:40:30] <ricky_clarkson> It'd be easy on Linux.
[14:40:55] <ricky_clarkson> Just provide a cut-down wm, they probably exist.
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[14:41:33] <cHaoTiCa> ricky_clarkson....it's not hard to do with .net......just create a form, embed a WebBrowser component, and maybe add buttons for stuff you want it to do :)
[14:41:49] <ricky_clarkson> cHaoTiCa: In that case, probably JDIC.
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[14:42:10] <b0gg1e> hi!
[14:42:12] <cHaoTiCa> possibly
[14:42:26] <cHaoTiCa> iirc there's an example of embedding ie in a java app
[14:42:30] <b0gg1e> whats the safest way to trigger object finalisation at a definitive point of time.
[14:42:33] <cHaoTiCa> on the jdic site
[14:42:34] <b0gg1e> ?
[14:42:47] <ricky_clarkson> b0gg1e: By using C++.
[14:42:49] <cHaoTiCa> b0gg1e....there is none
[14:42:56] <cHaoTiCa> in java :)
[14:43:20] <b0gg1e> ouch.
[14:43:27] <ricky_clarkson> No, it's a good thing.
[14:44:02] <b0gg1e> the problem is im holding quite a lot of state on the c side already and want it to go away as soon as the last reference to the java side object is dropped.  how would i do that?
[14:44:03] <cHaoTiCa> b0gg1e.....if you need to do something like that, code a dispose() method and call it when you're done with the object
[14:44:11] <b0gg1e> ok.
[14:44:52] <b0gg1e> thanks.
[14:45:16] <heanol> whats the alternatives for communications between programs in different jvms?
[14:45:18] <heanol> rmi? jms?
[14:45:47] <b0gg1e> memory mapped io, if you dare.
[14:45:51] <cHaoTiCa> soap, if you're feeling industrious :)
[14:45:56] <ricky_clarkson> TCP, UDP, carrier pigeon?
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[14:49:36] <Bevin> hi
[14:50:29] <ricky_clarkson> Geertings.
[14:50:46] <heanol> well.. yeah..
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[14:54:50] <davidw> hey dudes, any ant users know how to make it use additional classpaths.  FOr example: I want to compile some files against a .jar file, which I put in my home directory.  Obviously if I put that in as the location, that's not going to work for other people.
[14:56:26] <ricky_clarkson> davidw: Put it in the project, say in a lib directory.
[14:59:36] <davidw> uhrm, and say for the sake of argument that I had considered that and didn't want to do that...?:-)
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[15:01:41] <ricky_clarkson> Give a reason.
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[15:02:51] <shampoonator> good morning :)
[15:04:03] <ricky_clarkson> Imm Deutschland ist est 15:00
[15:04:06] <davidw> ricky_clarkson, a reason? it's against my religion.  If you want a better one, let's try this: I can't for licensing reasons, or "I don't want to bloat the download too much".
[15:04:28] <ricky_clarkson> davidw: Well your users need this stuff..
[15:04:34] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: did you see the game last night ?
[15:04:34] <shampoonator> yes.. but i drink cooffee, so its morning..
[15:04:55] <davidw> ricky_clarkson, no, they need the results of the build.
[15:05:20] <roots-> higgins played the best snooker i have ever seen apart from rare displays by ronnie or hendry
[15:05:42] <roots-> playing 4 centuries in a row, scoring 500 points consecutively against ronnie
[15:05:47] <davidw> higgins? magnum!
[15:05:48] <ricky_clarkson> davidw: So don't give them the lib.
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[15:07:17] <shampoonator> s i have got java project with a few threads which a all build from a certain constructor, somehow i habe to list all this threads in order to be able to close them properly, someone got an idea?
[15:07:37] <ricky_clarkson> shampoonator: Keep references to them.
[15:08:11] <shampoonator> noo no no.. :(
[15:08:34] <ricky_clarkson> Even if you have a reference to a Thread, what will you do with it?
[15:08:45] <shampoonator> kill it :)
[15:08:49] <ricky_clarkson> How?
[15:09:11] * ricky_clarkson starts a pro-life movement for threads.
[15:09:22] 
[15:09:36] <ricky_clarkson> English?
[15:09:40] <shampoonator> ==> i finish the run mehod
[15:09:54] <ricky_clarkson> Why do you need a reference to the Thread to do that?
[15:10:20] <shampoonator> u allways confuse me ricky_clarkson lol
[15:10:42] <pchapman> shampoonator, You're confusing me for sure.
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[15:11:04] <shampoonator> evyery hread extends this mythread thing which has a kill method.
[15:11:28] <ricky_clarkson> shampoonator: Ah, ok.
[15:11:38] <shampoonator> so in oder to kill all threads i have to.. run this method
[15:11:56] <ricky_clarkson> shampoonator: Maintain a Set<MyThread>
[15:12:06] <pchapman> Keep a List of the threads?
[15:12:12] <ricky_clarkson> Otherwise you've got crappy casting.
[15:12:13] <shampoonator> yeah ok .. but
[15:12:21] <pchapman> Iterate through them and kill them.
[15:12:30] <davidw> ricky_clarkson, it's -lib that I was after
[15:12:47] <ricky_clarkson> davidw: che?
[15:13:00] <davidw> ant -lib foo/bar/baz.jar
[15:13:33] <shampoonator> mmhhow to explain ...
[15:13:44] <ricky_clarkson> English.
[15:15:39] <shampoonator> ..im not sure what i wan indeed.. lol
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[15:22:17] 
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[15:23:41] <shampoonator> problem is that several mainprogramms could run at the same time s a static thing will not work really :( because i need this list for every instance of the mainprogramm
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[15:24:31] <shampoonator> i should learn technical english.. my pub english is quiet good ...
[15:24:50] <davidw> later dudes
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[15:25:29] <langenberg> erhm, can I use a string in a switch case?
[15:25:52] <langenberg> so: switch(foobar.equals()) { }
[15:25:57] <teralaser> no
[15:26:10] <teralaser> only primitives
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[15:26:33] <langenberg> Okay, so I'm best using if statements.
[15:26:51] <teralaser> it's odd, but true... "switch" statements in java isnt the most versatile of stuff
[15:27:05] <shampoonator> ok last try of explaining what i want: i want some kind of singleton, but i need serverall singletons for every instance of my mainprogramm.. oh that sound technical :)
[15:27:52] <langenberg> teralaser: I guess I'm just used to it from php.
[15:28:35] <ricky_clarkson> shampoonator: Sounds like you want Spring.
[15:28:37] <cheeser> shampoonator: that doesn't really make sense.
[15:28:50] <ricky_clarkson> Or simply a context object that you pass around that maintains references to stuff.
[15:29:32] <ricky_clarkson> Singletons make the baby Jesus cry.
[15:30:20] <shampoonator> ricky_clarkson yeah :) sounds cool lol
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[15:30:55] 
[15:31:06] <ricky_clarkson> Why?
[15:31:44] <shampoonator> mmh because i thing there must be a beter way...
[15:31:49] <ricky_clarkson> Why?
[15:31:59] <shampoonator> it would be nice?
[15:32:18] <ricky_clarkson> What's wrong with the constructor approach?
[15:33:00] 
[15:33:32] <ricky_clarkson> So use Spring or JNDI.
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[15:34:47] <shampoonator> k i have a look at that
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[15:37:00] <timerirq> good lucks
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[15:38:09] <ricky_clarkson> No good looks here.
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[15:43:40] <passi> hi there. can anyone tell me if java has problems to run on the swap? my kernel keeps throwing errors at me that java was killed although i still have my swap almost free
[15:45:54] <roots-> he ?
[15:46:10] <passi> my kernel is 2.6.8.1-12mdk and the java version is 1.4.2_08
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[15:46:40] <roots-> and your linux kernel produces what error message ?
[15:46:51] <passi> in my understanding java should take the swap as ram when the ram is full. but somehow it wont and it just kills my java threads
[15:47:20] <roots-> linux has virtual memory anyhow
[15:47:38] <ricky_clarkson> passi: Sun Java?
[15:47:41] <roots-> exception is sys5 ipc shared memory
[15:47:54] <roots-> you sure this is a kernal problem ?
[15:47:57] <passi> ricky_clarkson: yes
[15:48:03] <passi> DMA: 35*4kB 1*8kB 1*16kB 0*32kB 0*64kB 0*128kB 0*256kB 0*512kB 0*1024kB 0*2048kB 0*4096kB = 164kB
[15:48:04] <passi> Normal: 804*4kB 4*8kB 49*16kB 0*32kB 0*64kB 0*128kB 0*256kB 0*512kB 0*1024kB 0*2048kB 0*4096kB = 4032kB
[15:48:04] <passi> HighMem: 98*4kB 19*8kB 4*16kB 1*32kB 2*64kB 0*128kB 0*256kB 0*512kB 1*1024kB 0*2048kB 0*4096kB = 1792kB
[15:48:04] <passi> Swap cache: add 9760879, delete 9754177, find 23028600/24272767, race 29+39
[15:48:04] <passi> Out of Memory: Killed process 18521 (java).
[15:48:12] <ricky_clarkson> Don't flood here.
[15:48:17] <passi> sorry for the long paste. will paste the whole error in pastebin
[15:49:18] <Drone> View passi's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8380
[15:50:29] <ricky_clarkson> passi: Your kernel is out of memory and starts killing things.
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[15:50:51] <passi> yes, but why. it got about 1 gig swap left
[15:51:00] <ricky_clarkson> passi: Ask your OS vendor.
[15:51:06] <passi> lol.
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[15:52:31] <ricky_clarkson> In case there's a minor pebkac here, do you supply any extra parameters to java on the command line?
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[15:52:49] <brau|nordit> hi
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[15:53:18] <ricky_clarkson> Shiite.
[15:53:27] <roots-> did you mount the swap space ?
[15:53:37] <ricky_clarkson> Hard?
[15:53:37] <passi> sure
[15:53:51] <brau|nordit> how do i retrieve the number of rows from an sqlj iterator?
[15:54:02] <roots-> man swapon
[15:54:13] <roots-> brau|nordit: you dont, use a select count(*)
[15:54:17] <ricky_clarkson> ~sqlj
[15:54:17] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, I have no idea what sqlj is.
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[15:54:53] <terence_> if working with System.getProperty() i would set the property in main depending on the arguments and later can call System.getProperty() from every class in the same thread? jvm?
[15:54:53] <roots-> if you resultset has random access you could do a beforeLast() and get the count this way, it is usually not what you want though
[15:55:01] <brau|nordit> roots: no way? it's a 20-lines query, i don't want to have it twice in the code
[15:55:05] <roots-> terence_: jvm
[15:55:18] <terence_> tx
[15:55:19] <roots-> brau|nordit: you rather execute it just for the count ?
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[15:55:37] <roots-> brau|nordit: and have the db engine fetch data like a horse just to throw it away again ?
[15:55:47] <brau|nordit> roots: no i need the rows too
[15:55:51] <roots-> use select count(*)
[15:55:58] <roots-> for what ?
[15:56:04] <roots-> making a JTable display ?
[15:56:52] <brau|nordit> if i get any rows at all, it is an error
[15:57:14] <brau|nordit> so i wanna check that fact before i generate the error message using the returned rows
[15:57:43] <ricky_clarkson> That's a corner case for performance.
[15:58:20] <passi> roots-: swap is on. we have 1.7 of 1.8 gb free
[15:58:22] <roots-> so make a select count()
[15:58:54] <brau|nordit> mh ok that means i have to use two queries
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[15:59:51] <brau|nordit> the crap is, i have several queries
[15:59:52] <ricky_clarkson> A lovely case for an ORM tool.
[16:00:10] <brau|nordit> if query1 has rows { error }
[16:00:18] <roots-> which will do inefficient things almost for certain :)
[16:00:19] <brau|nordit> else if query2 has rows { error }
[16:00:30] <roots-> brau|nordit: make a stored procedure
[16:00:44] <brau|nordit> i'm not privileged to do ;(
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[16:01:39] <brau|nordit> ok i'll use count(*)
[16:01:45] <roots-> thx :)
[16:01:53] <brau|nordit> thx too :)
[16:01:55] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: But at least brau|nordit couldn't have moaned.
[16:02:02] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: Why not just get the rows anyway?
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[16:03:32] <brau|nordit> mmh
[16:05:39] <pr3d4t0r> ~he is just for you!  http://home.worldonline.dk/c32/ponch-homo.jpg
[16:05:39] <javabot> Okay, pr3d4t0r.
[16:05:51] <pr3d4t0r> ~forget he
[16:05:52] <javabot> I forgot about he, pr3d4t0r.
[16:05:55] <ricky_clarkson> Danish pron?
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[16:06:02] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: http://home.worldonline.dk/c32/ponch-homo.jpg
[16:06:23] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Hej, I shared a pissoir with He.
[16:06:47] <ricky_clarkson> I hope you washed afterwards.
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[16:09:19] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: because you send data over the wire
[16:09:49] <roots-> its like asking someone how many letters he send and as an answer you get n letters
[16:09:56] <roots-> which you count on the receiving end
[16:10:07] <roots-> it works fine, but it may not be that clever after all
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[16:11:32] <ricky_clarkson> Yeah, but if data is an error, then what's the issue?
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[16:13:06] <GaWaiNe> Hi there
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[16:15:46] <cheeser> hey GaWaiNe
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[16:16:50] <jann_> hi! searching for "mod" in java lib..
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[16:17:51] <GaWaiNe> Can someone tell me how can I print an Image resizing it ? The javadoc tells that PageFormat.getImageableWidth and PageFormat.getImageableHeight return the value in inches...
[16:18:02] <cheeser> jann_: the math operation?
[16:18:05] <cheeser> javabot: tell jann_ about operators
[16:18:05] <javabot> jann_, operators is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/operators.html
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[16:18:29] <puff> Morning.
[16:18:41] <roots-> GaWaiNe: you just want to print a single image ?
[16:18:51] <GaWaiNe> yes
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[16:19:37] <roots-> imagablewidth is something else
[16:19:51] <roots-> its just the region where you can print (eg papersize - margin)
[16:20:34] <ricky_clarkson> imaginablewidth ;)
[16:20:46] <roots-> thats a lot
[16:21:16] <doc|work> if I have a number of html checkboxes which are submitted to a jsp, are they converted to an Array/List of some form?
[16:21:36] <GaWaiNe> so I have to use PageFormat.getWIdth and PageFormat.getHeight to have the dimension of the paper (and resizing the image) ?
[16:21:48] <cheeser> doc|work: yes, if all the names match
[16:21:54] <roots-> GaWaiNe: you want to print the image across all of the page ?
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[16:22:24] <roots-> if yes, transform to imageable/x, y and scale to imagable/width, height
[16:22:40] <doc|work> cheeser: names are of the form item[1],item[2],item[3],item[4]? (works for php so I took a guess it should work with jsps?)
[16:22:52] <GaWaiNe> thanks :)
[16:23:35] <cheeser> doc|work: i don't recall off hand.  seems like they're in a List, though.
[16:23:39] <doc|work> ok, thanks
[16:26:31] <roots-> i am developing sweaty feet and my code is worth rewriting from scratch :(
[16:27:07] <roots-> i only worked on this for a couple of days @@!&&!
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[16:42:56] <GaWaiNe> Is there, in java, such a way for getting the hard disk serial number ?
[16:43:08] <ricky_clarkson> Not in pure Java.
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[16:43:40] <GaWaiNe> with jni ?
[16:43:53] <ricky_clarkson> If you can do it with C, sure.
[16:44:23] <GaWaiNe> so there isn't a yet developed solution :)
[16:44:45] <ricky_clarkson> Dunno, have you googled?
[16:44:59] <littlezoper> or c++ with extern C {}
[16:45:09] * littlezoper shivers
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[16:45:17] <GaWaiNe> yes, with no result
[16:45:24] <ricky_clarkson> GaWaiNe: Try googling harder.
[16:45:32] <ricky_clarkson> Or smarter.
[16:45:43] <GaWaiNe> eheh
[16:46:31] <mheath> GaWaiNe: what operating system are you using?
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[16:47:14] <mheath> While this is perhaps counteractive to java's goal of portability, you could code the program to read from files in /proc to determine that information, if you're using Linux.
[16:48:12] <GaWaiNe> mheath, linux
[16:48:21] <GaWaiNe> but
[16:48:32] <GaWaiNe> this solution should be cross-platform
[16:49:31] <mheath> GaWaiNe: well, such a low level interaction with hardware is going to require operating-specific code, anyway
[16:49:47] <mheath> That was just a suggestion on how to retrieve that information on Linux
[16:50:07] <mheath> You'd have to add other code for other OSes, and add an if statement that runs the correct one based on the operating system.
[16:51:39] <GaWaiNe> yes, i know, but there is a way to get the hd serial number on windows without the use of jni ?
[16:51:48] <ricky_clarkson> GaWaiNe: Probably.
[16:51:55] <ricky_clarkson> Ask your OS vendor.
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[16:52:26] <cyc|w> GaWaiNe: Could always do it in ASM. With a simple DOS INT. Or is this some sort of homework assignment?
[16:53:01] <GaWaiNe> no no, it isn't a homework :)
[16:54:22] <ricky_clarkson> GaWaiNe: 1. This isn't possible with Java.  Find out how else it can be programmatically done, then get Java to interface with that. 2. Why do you want this?
[16:55:09] * ricky_clarkson has run Java on devices with no hard drive.
[16:55:43] <cheeser> a phone, for example.
[16:55:53] <ricky_clarkson> Actually a PC.
[16:56:26] <pchapman> ricky_clarkson, Flash drive?
[16:56:27] <ricky_clarkson> Running a live CD.
[16:56:30] <pchapman> Or just bootp?
[16:56:45] <ricky_clarkson> Running a live CD.
[16:56:49] <pchapman> Ah.  That'll do it too.
[16:56:56] <pchapman> :-D
[16:57:18] <cyc|w> a phone would have been cooler ;P
[16:57:46] * mheath is starting work on porting a 30 year old game to java :)
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[16:58:11] <ricky_clarkson> mheath: Text adventure?
[16:58:44] <GaWaiNe> what game is it ?
[16:58:56] <mheath> ricky_clarkson: *The* text Adventure :P
[16:59:02] <mheath> Adventure.
[16:59:28] <mheath> DECSystem-10 PDP-11 Fortran IV ---> Java :)
[16:59:30] <ricky_clarkson> mheath: http://lavender.cime.net/~ricky/netsim/oldham/week4.doc
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[17:00:50] <mheath> ricky_clarkson: thats "coding a simple text adventure game"
[17:00:59] <ricky_clarkson> Yep.
[17:01:38] <mheath> ricky_clarkson: I'm "porting an extremely complex, thousands of lines of code, fortran program that is probably the most popular and first text adventure game ever"
[17:01:51] <GaWaiNe> I'm developing a new MUD engine entirely in java (and GPL :D)
[17:02:00] <ricky_clarkson> The only question is: "Why?"
[17:02:19] <mheath> ricky_clarkson: because, fortran is dieing out.
[17:02:23] <Cow_woC> GaWaiNe: take a look at the JADE engine
[17:02:24] <ricky_clarkson> GPL is too restrictive.
[17:02:31] <ricky_clarkson> mheath: So are text adventures.
[17:02:35] <Cow_woC> and I too would agree that GPL is too restrictive
[17:02:40] <mheath> ricky_clarkson: Not really.
[17:02:49] <mheath> ricky_clarkson: many linux distributions still include this game
[17:02:53] <ricky_clarkson> mheath: Stats would show otherwise.
[17:02:59] <GaWaiNe> restrictive ? why ?
[17:03:09] <ricky_clarkson> Because I can't do WTF I want with the code.
[17:03:21] <mheath> And it was popular for 30 years. I think this game has a right to have it's legacy preserved.
[17:03:29] <GaWaiNe> what is wtf ?
[17:03:34] <cheeser> javabot: wtf
[17:03:35] <javabot> cheeser, wtf is what the fuck. For example if you're reading this factoid you may have asked yourself "wtf is wtf?"
[17:03:36] <ricky_clarkson> GaWaiNe: what the fuck is wtf?
[17:03:44] <Cow_woC> Adom and Jade can be found here: http://www.adom.de/
[17:03:52] <Cow_woC> adom is one of the best I've personally seen
[17:04:04] <mheath> ricky_clarkson: The problem is, allowing you to do whatever you want with the code also allows businessmen to do whatever *they* want with the code, ie. steal it and sell it
[17:04:10] <mheath> sell it as closed source*
[17:04:22] <Cow_woC> no one is going to steal your MUD engine
[17:04:23] <cheeser> worked well enough for apache
[17:04:31] <ricky_clarkson> mheath: Only the modifications can be closed source.
[17:04:44] <mheath> ricky_clarkson: take a look at http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/bsd.html
[17:04:50] <ricky_clarkson> I've read that.
[17:04:53] <mheath> Thats discussing problems with the BSD license (which allows what you want) compared to the GPL
[17:05:31] <Cow_woC> in my view, if you've got a problem whereby releasing the source-code would allow a competitor to steal it ... then don't release the source-code. GPL will not protect you for s**t
[17:05:34] <ricky_clarkson> So I could distribute your GPL source, my closed-source patch and build on the user's machine.
[17:06:03] <mheath> ricky_clarkson: look into the LGPL
[17:06:10] <ricky_clarkson> How does the user benefit?  They don't - compilation takes longer.
[17:06:14] <ricky_clarkson> mheath: Again, I've read that.
[17:06:44] <mheath> ricky_clarkson: then you'd know that the LGPL license allows you to do something very similar to this.
[17:06:57] <ricky_clarkson> The LGPL used to be called the Library General Public License, which described its purpose quite well.  Now it's Lesser, for 'political' reasons.
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[17:07:12] <ricky_clarkson> mheath: Indeed, but the BSD gives you slightly more freedom and more brevity.
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[17:09:35] <mheath> ricky_clarkson: it also opens the window for much more abuse.
[17:09:57] <ricky_clarkson> The point is that it's not abuse.
[17:09:59] <mheath> ricky_clarkson: BSD is perhaps a good Open Source license, but the GPL is by far the best Free Software license.
[17:10:00] <cheeser> people are more important than code
[17:10:08] <cheeser> mheath: bwahahahahahaha
[17:10:32] <mheath> cheeser: ?
[17:10:39] <ricky_clarkson> Somebody who applies the BSD licence is intending everyone to be able to use their code for whatever they want.
[17:10:40] <cheeser> the GPL sucks.
[17:10:47] <pr3d4t0r> mheath: That's your opinion.
[17:10:54] <pr3d4t0r> mheath: The GPL sucks for most of us here.
[17:11:04] <pr3d4t0r> mheath: And, frankly, that's not a Java discussion.
[17:11:12] <pr3d4t0r> mheath: Take it to private or to #licenses
[17:11:22] <mheath> pr3d4t0r: Sorry that I commented on a discussion here.
[17:11:23] <ricky_clarkson> Somebody who applies the GPL is intending only people with the same religion as them to be able to use the code for whatever they want.
[17:11:23] <cheeser> pr3d4t0r: to be fair, he did say "best Free Software license" and not "best free software license"
[17:11:25] <pr3d4t0r> 8^)=
[17:11:28] <cheeser> so it's really a choice of 2 in that case.
[17:11:32] <Andre4s> how do I get the line count from a JTextPane?
[17:11:40] <Cow_woC> oof, tough room :P
[17:11:49] <pr3d4t0r>  /kick Cow_woC
[17:11:49] <ricky_clarkson> mheath: Think about this.  If another GPL came about, made by somebody else with pretty much the same text, the GPL would be incompatible with it.
[17:11:58] * mheath reminds himself to now ignore any slightly-off topic conversations in this room
[17:12:05] <mheath> I didn't start that conversation, just commented.
[17:12:09] <pr3d4t0r> mheath: Ah.
[17:12:12] * pr3d4t0r eyes ricky_clarkson
[17:12:14] <cheeser> mheath: we (well, I) try to keep things mostly on java anyway.
[17:12:32] <jann_> what struct is best to keep a file in memeory and have access via the line position?
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[17:12:52] <ricky_clarkson> mheath: cheeser allows off-topic conversations until he a) notices them or b) gets fed up of them.
[17:13:00] <cheeser> or they drag on too long.
[17:13:08] <ricky_clarkson> Which is b).
[17:13:14] <cheeser> i'm trying to relax about it a bit, but this *is* still a java channel.
[17:13:41] <cheeser> i have other channels for random, inane conversations.  8^)=
[17:14:16] <Cow_woC> In #java we talk about two things: Java or conversations about conversations about conversations
[17:14:35] * Cow_woC snickers
[17:14:38] <Andre4s> how do I get the line count from a JTextPane?
[17:14:39] <cheeser> no one's in #java.
[17:14:39] <cheeser> 8^)=
[17:14:47] <Cow_woC> bah, same difference
[17:14:48] <pchapman> ~Cow_woC++
[17:14:48] <Cow_woC> hehe
[17:14:49] <javabot> cow_woc has a karma level of 5, pchapman
[17:14:54] <cheeser> Andre4s: it's not in the API?
[17:15:34] <pchapman> Cow_woC, There is a more than a fair amount of hair splitting that goes on in here too.
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[17:16:18] <cheeser> "in here, too."
[17:16:38] <Cow_woC> "in, here too."
[17:16:42] * pchapman sees that cheeser has proved my point.
[17:16:49] * Cow_woC has no idea what he wrote
[17:16:50] <cheeser> 8^)=
[17:16:50] <Andre4s> cheeser, I can't find it. JTextArea has a getLineCount() but not JTextPane. And I have to use a JTextPane
[17:16:54] <Cow_woC> :)
[17:17:05] <cheeser> Andre4s: it may not be possible, then.
[17:17:40] <roots-> not efficiently at least
[17:17:47] <roots-> unless you keep track of it
[17:17:49] <Cow_woC> Why do spammers keep on assuming I am impotant?
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[17:17:58] <roots-> JTextPane has nested sections/paragraphs etc
[17:18:09] <pchapman> Cow_woC, You're not?  Hm.  OK.  I'll stop sending you those emails then.
[17:18:20] <roots-> so figuring out the linecount is not simple a matter of checking the number of elements straight under the root-element
[17:18:27] <roots-> the nesting of elements of JTextArea has a max depth of 1
[17:18:32] <pchapman> I could have sworn your GF told me otherwise.
[17:18:40] <Cow_woC> heh
[17:18:59] <pchapman> Speaking of GF, how did the lessons go Saturday?
[17:19:06] <pchapman> Cow_woC, ^^
[17:19:48] <Cow_woC> they were great... our instructor was the wife of the owner
[17:19:55] <Cow_woC> and she was a really good teacher
[17:19:55] <ricky_clarkson> ~literal act like marvin
[17:19:55] <javabot> <reply>(That's right, just ignore the robot.|Would you like me to pick up a piece of paper, or just rust to oblivion?|Brain the size of a planet, and they want me to tell people API URLs?|I've got this terrible pain in the diodes down my left side)
[17:20:19] <roots-> Andre4s: for not so long texts just count the number of linefeeds in the text
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[17:27:35] <Down`> hello
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[17:28:44] <cheeser> hey Down`
[17:28:59] <[GT]Kane> Looking for help installing Java 64bit jre for (FreeBSD 5.x X86 64 Bit) Been trying for over 24 hours tired now lol. I just can't get to work...
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[17:30:00] <cheeser> untar.  set your path.  run with it.
[17:30:21] <[GT]Kane> ok i got confused at the tar part :P
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[17:31:09] <Down`> g
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[17:33:28] <ricky_clarkson> [GT]Kane: Er, there are tons of tar tutorials online.
[17:33:39] <cheeser> even one locally!  man tar
[17:33:59] <cheeser> man tar sounds like a bad guy from He-man
[17:34:08] <ricky_clarkson> While we're on manpages - man sed sucks.
[17:34:27] <pchapman> Spin it around and you have a super hero.  Tarman.  (no kin to Tarzan)
[17:34:47] <ricky_clarkson> pchapman: rat nam
[17:35:00] <cheeser> Tarmon Gaidon?  it's coming...
[17:35:11] <[GT]Kane> i looked all over google
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[17:35:59] <mlopes> hi. when using tcp sockets and a BufferedReader, who can I make it block while waiting for a stream to come?
[17:36:11] <ricky_clarkson> mlopes: It does so.
[17:36:24] <mlopes> well i'm getting the first message all right
[17:36:27] <mlopes> it blocks
[17:36:36] <mlopes> but the second one, it returns null and raises an exception
[17:36:57] <ricky_clarkson> Someone closed the socket.
[17:37:02] <mlopes> hmm
[17:37:08] <mlopes> indeed
[17:37:11] <ricky_clarkson> Oh, and no method can return null and throw an exception.
[17:37:16] <mlopes> the client connects, sends a message, waits for a response and then quits
[17:37:33] <mlopes> ricky_clarkson, readLine returns null if i'm not mistaken
[17:37:40] <ricky_clarkson> And throws an exception?
[17:37:54] <mlopes> no
[17:38:13] <mlopes> how, that was an and (&) :-)
[17:38:31] <ricky_clarkson> ~make sense
[17:38:32] <javabot> make: *** No rule to make target `sense'.  Stop.
[17:38:44] <roots-> make my day
[17:39:01] <roots-> note: this makes my and day
[17:39:05] * littlezoper feels lucky
[17:39:07] * cheeser shoots roots- with his S&W
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[17:39:12] <nmx> ~cheeser++
[17:39:12] <javabot> cheeser has a karma level of 144, nmx
[17:39:16] <cheeser> 8^)=
[17:39:23] <nmx> [11:35] <cheeser> Tarmon Gaidon?  it's coming...
[17:39:29] <cheeser> nmx: w00t!
[17:39:30] <littlezoper> make my lunch!
[17:39:31] <nmx> hehe
[17:39:38] <nmx> i haven't gotten the new book yet
[17:39:42] * ricky_clarkson wraps roots- in S&M and sends him to Die Reeperbahn.
[17:39:45] <littlezoper> i'm halfway through it
[17:39:45] * cheeser shoots littlezoper with his salad shooter.
[17:39:51] <nmx> how long is it?
[17:39:51] <cheeser> nmx: i'm half way through
[17:39:56] <cheeser> 800ish
[17:39:57] <littlezoper> about 700 pages
[17:40:01] <cheeser> that's right.
[17:40:06] <cheeser> it's upstairs and i'm not...
[17:40:06] <cheeser> 8^)=
[17:40:08] <nmx> does it move faster than the last few? that's what the reviewers have said
[17:40:16] <cheeser> it does indeed.
[17:40:19] <nmx> good good :)
[17:40:21] <littlezoper> nmx: it does.  been great so far
[17:40:21] <ricky_clarkson> What book?
[17:40:26] <cheeser> but i can't really say much without spoiling stuff...
[17:40:29] <littlezoper> i think things are about to hit the fan
[17:40:30] <nmx> right
[17:40:40] <littlezoper> ricky_clarkson: Knife of Dreams
[17:40:43] <littlezoper> Wheel of Time book 11
[17:41:05] *** mazon is now known as Mazon
[17:41:06] <cheeser> littlezoper: bah!  i just shined that fan!
[17:41:08] <ricky_clarkson> I bet it's crap compared to anything by Douglas Adams. ;)
[17:41:11] <roots-> S&W ?
[17:41:14] <roots-> come on thats low tech ...
[17:41:15] <littlezoper> cheeser: :P
[17:41:20] * roots- shoots back with his H&K bummer
[17:42:08] * ricky_clarkson projects an Angela Merkel hologram into roots-' bedroom.
[17:42:20] <nmx> i will probably refrain from reading any more robert jordan after this unless he stops being in love with describing every thread of every garment every character in every scene is wearing
[17:42:45] <cheeser> 8^)=
[17:43:07] <Cow_woC> heh
[17:43:15] <Cow_woC> nmx: well, in that aspect he
[17:43:18] <littlezoper> nmx: you haven't read tolkien have you?  he does the same thing, but with food :P
[17:43:18] <Cow_woC> he's like Dickens
[17:43:23] <Cow_woC> but at least his books are interesting
[17:43:35] <nmx> heh, i have read tolkien. i skip over the pages full of songs
[17:43:35] <Cow_woC> littlezoper: heh
[17:43:41] <[GT]Kane> http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/java5beta/
[17:43:43] <Cow_woC> yeah, his songs are bad :)
[17:43:55] <littlezoper> and go on and on and on
[17:43:59] * Cow_woC claps for IBM, only one year too late
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[17:44:07] <littlezoper> that was one good thing about the movies:  no singing!
[17:44:10] <ricky_clarkson> Speaking of which, where's Epesh?
[17:44:18] <littlezoper> just like should have been done in Camelot.  silly place...
[17:44:21] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: On vacation until next week.
[17:44:22] <nmx> there was a singing scene in the special edition of fellowship of the ring
[17:44:22] <littlezoper> ricky_clarkson: vacation
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[17:44:40] <Cow_woC> "Special Edition" indeed
[17:45:05] <nmx> and in the theatrical release of return of the king, also
[17:45:06] <littlezoper> there was?  i still haven't watch RotK SE... :)
[17:46:04] <ricky_clarkson> With added Javabeans.
[17:47:15] <ricky_clarkson> I need a holiday.
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[17:48:51] * littlezoper sends ricky_clarkson a Go-Gos vacation
[17:49:08] <ricky_clarkson> I was playing gogos in a samba band last week.
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[17:50:13] <Baloogan> ~ switch
[17:50:13] <javabot> Baloogan, switch is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/switch.html
[17:50:13] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: no!
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[17:50:18] <roots-> i am getting honry
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[17:50:42] * ricky_clarkson hopes roots- doesn't correct that typo.
[17:50:52] <roots-> i wont
[17:51:09] <roots-> you going to take a screenshot/hardcopy ?
[17:51:28] <ricky_clarkson> What?
[17:52:06] <roots-> oh honry ?
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[17:52:25] <roots-> C-a h
[17:52:28] <roots-> is hardcopy in screen
[17:52:36] <Cow_woC> cheeser: yo ... you awake?
[17:52:40] <cheeser> yep!
[17:52:57] <ricky_clarkson> "Please note that in order to continue the investigation into the failure of switches in the server room, the power supply to the Newton Building will be shutdown at 7.00am for approximately 1 hour on the above dates.
[17:53:17] <ricky_clarkson> Why would they need to turn power off to the entire building just to look at one room?
[17:53:19] <Cow_woC> in Hibernate, when you're developing webapp or application code and you want to pass around representations of Foo where Foo is stored in the DB... but this representation of foo is disconnected (not part of a session) do you just pass its ID around or a disconnected object?
[17:53:46] <roots-> the session concept in hibernate has what purpose ?
[17:53:49] <roots-> i didnt understand it
[17:53:51] <roots-> :)
[17:53:57] <Cow_woC> because from a functionality point of view, I see no benefit to passing around the object because you can never use it again. In the code, I'd always reload the object into a new session... I'd never reuse the original
[17:54:13] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: It manages the fake objects that Hibernate gives you - the ones backed by the DB.
[17:54:19] <Cow_woC> roots-: Well, it pretends you have a lock on all tables and you do "one unit of work"
[17:54:23] <roots-> there is saveOrUpdate or th elike so you can reuse it
[17:54:46] <roots-> hmm but why  ... maybe i am a bit german^W stupid
[17:55:04] <Cow_woC> except I don't want to update the DB version with the memory version I am passing around. The memory version is going to be stale
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[17:55:55] <Cow_woC> basically I have one webapp request, it produces an Image, the session disconnects. Then I pass that object into another webapp request, it creates a new Session and loads the Image into that session
[17:56:03] <Cow_woC> but I can't use merge() because it'll complain about staleness
[17:56:21] <Cow_woC> and I'm not sure what saveOrUpdate() will do if invoked
[17:56:36] <Baloogan> ~sort
[17:56:37] <javabot> Baloogan, I have no idea what sort is.
[17:56:38] <ricky_clarkson> I need to remember to get some  new audio leads tomorrow.
[17:56:45] <roots-> i mean ojb doesnt have any of these weird things
[17:56:46] <littlezoper> Cow_woC: would the OpenSessionInView filter help?
[17:57:00] <roots-> what is the benefit of having session ? it does allow for what extra fancyness ? :)
[17:57:06] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Baloogan about javadoc Arrays.sort(*)
[17:57:07] <javabot> Baloogan, please see java.util.Arrays.sort(long[]): http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/Arrays.html#sort(long[])
[17:57:10] <Cow_woC> littlezoper: what is that?
[17:57:21] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Baloogan about javadoc Collections.sort(*)
[17:57:21] <javabot> Baloogan, please see java.util.Collections.sort(java.util.List): http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/Collections.html#sort(java.util.List)
[17:57:22] <cheeser> it's a pattern/filter
[17:57:23] <Baloogan> woo!
[17:57:33] <jann_> the string printed on console is correct but in the file i get else values , how is that possible?
[17:57:38] <jann_> BufferedWriter out = new BufferedWriter(new FileWriter(outPutFile));
[17:57:53] <littlezoper> Cow_woC: keeps the hibernate session open for the entire request so you can use your hibernate pojos in the view
[17:57:56] <ricky_clarkson> jann_: FileWriter is crap because it doesn't let you specify the encoding to use.
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[17:58:11] <jann_> what else to use?
[17:58:25] <ricky_clarkson> jann_: OutputStreamWriter and FileOutputStream.
[17:58:56] <ricky_clarkson> jann_: How does the output differ from the values in the file?
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[17:59:35] <Cow_woC> littlezoper: but I'm not sure that'll be a good idea....... these are two separate requests. One leads to another, but there is no guarantee a user will ever reach the second or he could do 1, 2, 1
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[18:00:05] <jann_> hard to describe. on console i get unicode - i would say in file i have integers sometimes instead and dupes, which can't be possible
[18:00:15] <Cow_woC> I'm reading the Javadoc for Session.update() which says "Update the persistent instance with the identifier of the given detached instance" but I'm not sure I understand. Does the object I pass in get re-attached to the session I invoke update() on?
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[18:00:19] <ricky_clarkson> jann_: Sounds like an encoding issue, yeah.
[18:00:51] <Cow_woC> actually nevermind, I am 99% sure session.update() will complain if the POJO is based upon stale data
[18:00:54] <jann_> ok. i'll try that FileOutputStream
[18:00:56] <jann_> tx
[18:00:57] <littlezoper> Cow_woC: oh...two different requests... hmm
[18:01:04] <Cow_woC> littlezoper: well, I mean, picture this ...
[18:01:13] <Cow_woC> littlezoper: http://www.desktopbeautifier.com/Main?bookmarkablePage=desktopbeautifier.web.gallery.Page&theme=80
[18:01:34] <Cow_woC> littlezoper: that's one page.. then if the user clicks on a thumbnail, he gets sent to a 2nd page/request and the Image object is passed in
[18:01:46] <Cow_woC> littlezoper: I don
[18:02:08] <Cow_woC> littlezoper: In this case, I don't think it makes sense to retain a single session..... isn't this use-case logically two separate sessions?
[18:02:50] <littlezoper> well...we use spring which manages the session for us....
[18:04:33] <littlezoper> why would you need to update the session?
[18:05:05] <Cow_woC> when did I ever say I am updating a session?
[18:05:36] <Cow_woC> I was wondering if session.update() somehow magically merges a detached object into the current session, ignoring staleness, but it looks like not
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[18:06:08] <littlezoper> 11:00 < Cow_woC> I'm reading the Javadoc for Session.update() which says...
[18:06:18] <littlezoper> ah...ok...
[18:09:02] <jann_> ricky_clarkson:  ah looks better, but now i lost my newlines, i had a extra line for every string added with "write(str)", but now all is "one line" in the file- do i have to add extra line feed now? how does new line key look like in unicode?
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[18:10:54] <afaik> anyone know of hosting that offers shared java hosting?
[18:10:58] <afaik> like tomcat or something?
[18:11:11] <afaik> all the hosts I see either offer .NET or PHP... no J2EE :(
[18:12:20] <littlezoper> the feedback I got from one provider was that shared hosting with tomcat was difficult.  they even said the tomcat people admitted as much
[18:13:02] <afaik> yeah, I was thinking this was the case
[18:13:50] <afaik> I'm setting up a site for myself to offer some consulting services, and since my target audience is people who need j2ee based work done, I wanted to do it in j2ee ;)
[18:14:02] <afaik> I suppose I could just use php for now... doesnt really matter
[18:14:27] <littlezoper> hehe
[18:14:43] <littlezoper> lots of java-centered, php-powered websites
[18:15:28] <roots-> get a server
[18:15:31] <ricky_clarkson> jann_: You should write newlines as \n in source.
[18:15:33] <roots-> or vserver
[18:15:41] <ricky_clarkson> jann_: Or use writeln instead of wirte.
[18:15:47] <afaik> roots-, oh I would... financially constrained at the moment
[18:15:58] <afaik> hence, creating site to get some contract work
[18:16:22] <doc|work> any alternatives to using Stringbuffers for outputting html in a jsp. It seems to be very very slow.
[18:16:32] <doc|work> even presetting the number of chars
[18:17:02] <afaik> I'm not making enough at my current job, and I expect my job hunt to take very long (as it currently has). I don't want a second job as a factory worker or somethin, so consulting seems to be the way to go
[18:17:12] <afaik> or sell some kind of premade software I'll write ;)
[18:17:41] <roots-> you live in germany ?
[18:17:43] <roots-> sounds like it ?
[18:17:51] <roots-> doc|work: StringBuffer is fast as hell
[18:18:09] <doc|work> roots-: doesn't seem to be for me :/
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[18:18:24] <roots-> doc|work: anyhoe you could use velocity or such, if you find it is faster than stringbuffers, it indicates you use stringbuffers in odd ways
[18:19:31] <afaik> "use stringbuffers in odd ways" .. heh. Sounds like somebody cooking up an insane system built on string buffers that baffles the mind
[18:19:44] <doc|work> roots-: http://pastebin.com/396490 is the code and there's nothing much being done in the Agency object
[18:20:04] <doc|work> getting one Agency is very fast but generating that table is very very slow
[18:20:25] <afaik> doc|home, nasy :)
[18:20:28] <afaik> *nasty
[18:21:24] <doc|work> 7-8 seconds for ~100 rows
[18:22:23] <roots-> that is not due to the stringbuffer
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[18:22:33] <roots-> even though you create a few unneeded ones
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[18:24:47] <vakYpollo> today my google skills doesn't get results :(   How can tell java to download via https a .policy file?
[18:25:30] <vakYpollo> java -Djava.security.manager -Djava.security.policy=https://mysecureserv/mine.policy test.Class  is not enough.
[18:25:31] <Drone> That URL gave the following error: java.net.UnknownHostException, mysecureserv
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[18:27:29] <vakYpollo> mysecureserv is just an example domain.
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[18:28:04] <vakYpollo> hum... so it recognizes the URL.. hum...
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[18:28:50] <vakYpollo> no, it doesn't.. i suspect you are trying to donwload the .policy.
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[18:31:15] <mohadib> good morning men .... and you too ricky_clarkson ;p
[18:32:25] <ricky_clarkson> I *am* half human..
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[18:34:15] <vakYpollo> hum.. JAAS book says how.
[18:34:19] <r3tex> I am half wisky...
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[18:34:48] <pchapman> I am half amused.
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[18:41:38] <mohadib> hehh pchapman
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[18:45:28] <jann_> ricky_clarkson:  OutputStreamWriter out = new OutputStreamWriter(new FileOutputStream(outPutFile));  .. out.write(line+"\n"); > but still all is in one line..! do i have to set the character set ?
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[18:49:06] <mohadib> godamn i love mondays
[18:49:09] <ricky_clarkson> jann_: Yes, that's wthe whole point of using OutputStreamWriter trather than FileWriter.
[18:49:14] <mohadib> i wish everyday could be a monday
[18:49:27] <jwormy> i masturbate 4 times on monday
[18:50:15] <mohadib> hahaha!!
[18:51:53] <mohadib> jwormy: i would but i already have road rash jwormy
[18:52:05] <mohadib> rough weekend :p
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[18:52:57] <ricky_clarkson> jwormy: I didn't know you had that many friends.
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[18:55:46] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: sure , he has 5 really good friends :p
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[18:56:00] <mohadib> Rosey Palmer and her 5 sisters :p
[18:56:10] <Aradorn> *sigh* just got my programming project for this semester
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[18:58:08] <Sou|cutter> Aradorn: sweet!
[18:58:51] <Aradorn> have to write a Push Down Automoton... yipee!!!
[18:59:41] <nmx> damn i hate race conditions
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[18:59:47] <Aradorn> lol
[19:00:12] <mohadib> nmx stop using threads
[19:01:10] * ricky_clarkson wins race conditions.
[19:01:21] <Aradorn> im the dale jr. of race conditions
[19:01:22] <Aradorn> =)
[19:01:34] <ricky_clarkson> More like the Dale Winton.
[19:01:37] <Sou|cutter> is that the one who died in a wreck?
[19:01:37] <Aradorn> heh
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[19:01:43] <Aradorn> no that was his father
[19:01:45] <jwormy> Sou|cutter, that was his father
[19:02:06] <Aradorn> last lap at Daytona... guess if your a race car driver thats the way to go
[19:02:23] <jwormy> i'd rather go while poking a hot chick but whatever.. to each his own
[19:02:24] <Sou|cutter> Aradorn: Only if you're in the lead
[19:02:45] <Aradorn> well he was 2nd or 3rd, his son was leading
[19:02:47] <ricky_clarkson> I'd rather go in my sleep with no pain.
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[19:03:08] <Aradorn> anyways...
[19:03:23] <vinse> i want to ride a nuclear bomb off a bomber plane, like col. kong
[19:03:25] <ricky_clarkson> "One day a letter came through the door, well, through the letterbox"
[19:03:35] <vinse> "yeeeee haw!"
[19:04:01] <jwormy> see.. before dale died.. he said 'hey yall, watch this!'
[19:04:36] <vinse> ~javabot jwormy
[19:04:36] <javabot> Just try ~jwormy, vinse.
[19:04:41] <vinse> ~jwormy
[19:04:41] <javabot> vinse, jwormy is an asshat.
[19:04:44] <vinse> there we go
[19:04:44] <jwormy> they say arabic people that are about to do a suicide bombing say something special and if you ever hear that run... well.. if you ever hear a redneck say ' hey yall, watch this!' turn around and look cause that shit is gonna be funny as hell
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[19:10:21] <mohadib> jwormy: lol
[19:10:57] <ricky_clarkson> jwormy: They give a big-up to their idol, a bloke called Alan.
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[19:14:12] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: Alan?
[19:14:19] <mohadib> greenspan?
[19:15:01] <littlezoper> jackson?
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[19:20:37] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: Allah.
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[19:38:37] <epic> is there any sleep function in java, to make my thread stop running for a given amount of seconds? :)
[19:38:43] <Aradorn> yeah
[19:38:52] <Aradorn> Thread.sleep(millis)
[19:38:57] <Aradorn> or something like that
[19:39:01] <Aradorn> check the API
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[19:39:46] <pchapman> If you have a List <MyObject>, how is the best way to pass it into a method that takes Collection (no generics) as parameter?
[19:40:00] <pchapman> Must it be copied?
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[19:40:21] * Lars_G bows
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[19:40:25] <Lars_G> greetings all.
[19:40:25] <epic> nice
[19:40:27] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G!
[19:40:35] <epic> milliseconds = 1/1000 * second ?
[19:40:37] <Lars_G> Is there a std DOCTYPE for ant buildfiles?
[19:40:40] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Hej.
[19:40:48] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Btw I forgot to ask you...
[19:40:58] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: How was the talk and the convention? was it nice?
[19:41:12] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Where you the culpright of JavaGeek becomming an alcoholic?
[19:41:43] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: JavaGeek didn't attend.
[19:41:55] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: http://eugeneciurana.com <-- blue box, first link.
[19:42:51] <Lars_G> let me see
[19:43:37] <Lars_G> Ah nice place.
[19:43:40] <Lars_G> Expenses paid?
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[19:44:24] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: No standard doctype, but there is a way of generating a DTD for a given ant buildfile, should you really neec one.
[19:44:29] <ricky_clarkson> s/neec/need/
[19:45:18] <Lars_G> Nah it's ok ricky. thanks
[19:45:23] <Lars_G> My IDE is pampering me.
[19:45:28] <ricky_clarkson> tengo un libro, con ingles al lado de castellano, short stories.
[19:45:43] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Use make and stop wanking with Ant.
[19:45:49] <ricky_clarkson> ~make sense
[19:45:50] <javabot> make: *** No rule to make target `sense'.  Stop.
[19:46:06] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Ant is for dumbasses who don't understand make.
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[19:47:03] <ricky_clarkson> Ant is for people who might want to work on systems without make, and for whom installing gnu tools might be a pita, whereas on top of Java, ant is a relatively small thing, and doesn't need much installation.
[19:47:05] <[algo]> any XML-RPC users in here ?
[19:47:12] <ricky_clarkson> ~ask
[19:47:17] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: I'm using the Scp task, I'm too lazy to do the same on Make right now.
[19:47:17] <javabot> The Ask To Ask protocol wastes more bandwidth than any version of the Ask protocol, so just ask your question.
[19:47:22] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: See?  Exactly.
[19:47:24] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Btw looks a lot of fun, wish I can come next time.
[19:47:37] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: There's another conference coming up in Las Vegas, March.
[19:47:41] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Start saving $$.
[19:47:44] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: install cygwin or find the one version of ant that works....
[19:47:54] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Laziness is an essential attribute.
[19:47:56] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Will do, let's see if I can. Will it be worth it?
[19:48:00] <ricky_clarkson> ernimril: Personally I do install Cygwin.
[19:48:01] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: or you already have make on your linux/unix box
[19:48:05] <[algo]> well, my requst is not working
[19:48:06] <[algo]> http://rafb.net/paste/results/VPbrpK56.html
[19:48:10] <[algo]> here is XML-RPC coll
[19:48:16] <[algo]> and class piece
[19:48:28] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: but of course, if you know ant it may be good, I like make and I know make...
[19:48:28] <[algo]> I put it as simple as I could, but it says "no such method"
[19:48:32] <ricky_clarkson> ernimril: When I was using Debian, I didn't have make installed, nor gcc, most of the time.
[19:48:45] <[algo]> java.lang.Exception: RPC handler object not found for "echo": No default handler registeredfaultCode0
[19:49:12] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: I would be interested in seeing the ant buildfile that match our current makefile...
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[19:49:36] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: What's the conference? got a web page to look at?
[19:49:43] <[algo]> it says so, but I've set xmlrpc.addHandler("echo", this);
[19:49:45] <[algo]> any ideas ?
[19:49:46] <ricky_clarkson> ernimril: I've used make; I struggled to get it to do recursive building, which isn't even necessary with ant, as it knows about filesets.
[19:49:48] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: just to compare speed and length...
[19:50:03] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: why do you want recursive building?
[19:50:29] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Are any of the other guys in-channel?
[19:50:34] <ricky_clarkson>  code from arbitrary subdirectories.
[19:50:38] <ricky_clarkson> to build
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[19:50:54] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: well actually our makefile has a target all that does recurses, but it is one step only.
[19:51:12] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: I handle arbitary subdirs with my makefiles without recursion...
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[19:51:29] <ricky_clarkson> ernimril: how?
[19:51:37] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: http://eugeneciurana.com/personal/images/Everybody-at-sushi.jpg
[19:51:37] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: http://www.khelekore.org/~robo/Makefile
[19:51:40] <[algo]> ~answer
[19:51:41] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'clackwell standard answer' might be appropriate:
[19:51:43] <javabot> Consider posting a test case to the pastebin - http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin
[19:51:52] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: there is a targets.txt beside, it may help
[19:52:28] <ricky_clarkson> ernimril: Your web server doesn't know about line endings.
[19:52:49] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Nod.
[19:52:49] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: ?
[19:53:05] <ricky_clarkson> ernimril: Everything is on one huge wrapped line.
[19:53:11] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Bevin is the cuttest in the group, and Epesh I'd run from in the street
[19:53:13] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: not for me...
[19:53:18] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Too sad online they're the opposite.
[19:53:24] <jwormy> ricky_clarkson, not for me...
[19:53:38] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: And none is only, you sure you didn't stab them during the night?
[19:53:40] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: but sure, it is probably unix newlines only...
[19:54:22] <ricky_clarkson> Works for FF but not IE.
[19:54:26] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: I do not edit the makefile or any other buildfile when I add a new .java-file or a new directory
[19:55:36] <ricky_clarkson> ernimril: # Set separator based on OS (: or ;) - unnecessary in ant.
[19:55:36] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: that makefile does at most one javac for main classes and one javac for test classes during build...
[19:55:57] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: perhaps, not everything is nice in make...
[19:56:09] <ricky_clarkson> ernimril: .packagelist is a list of sbdirs?
[19:56:29] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: yes, generated...
[19:57:07] <ricky_clarkson> So your Makefile is self-modifying, nice.
[19:57:31] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Nah.
[19:57:35] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: That was a fun outing.
[19:57:35] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: Ill upload a simpler file for a smaller project, basically the same, but uses less helper script...
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[19:58:05] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: looks so.
[19:58:11] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: http://www.khelekore.org/~robo/Makefile2
[19:58:12] <ricky_clarkson> In ant you just say <javac src="**/*.java" etc./> rather than having to do wierd stuff to get subdirectories.
[19:58:14] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Got a page for the next one?
[19:58:54] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: "weird" depends on what you are used to...
[19:59:02] <ricky_clarkson> And you wouldn't typically (though you can) invoke ant from within ant, whereas you do with make, which always seems odd.
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[20:01:06] <ricky_clarkson> Btw, I don't think ant's perfect - far from it, but I think you can DoStuff quicker in it.
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[20:02:31] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: perhaps, some things are probably easier, but having full shell access is nice. What tasks do you think are easier in ant? web deployment probably is...
[20:02:59] <ricky_clarkson> Compilation.
[20:03:42] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Btw tonight or tomorrow I'll add subversion to xcode. Let's see how it goes.
[20:03:48] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: for trivial projects, perhaps. I am not sure it works as well when you need to do lots of things. I do not want to write a java class for what a simple shell script can do...
[20:04:18] <ernimril> ricky_clarkson: how well do ant work with C/C++?
[20:04:50] <[algo]> solved the issue
[20:05:42] <Lars_G> I think that save for some exceptions, Ant Vs. Make is Vi Vs. Emacs all again, more a matter of taste than of quality
[20:05:42] <ricky_clarkson> ernimril: Well you can always call out to a shell script.
[20:06:07] <ricky_clarkson> ernimril: I've never tried using ant with C/C++, but I think there's a non-Java version of ant for that somewhere.
[20:06:19] <ernimril> Lars_G: yes, both work. If you know one it is easier to prefer it...
[20:06:25] <Lars_G> Personally, I'm an Ant kind of guy, basically because I love XML and I like monolithic solutions... yup, I'm a sick dude
[20:06:48] <Lars_G> ernimril: Don't try to use my words to prove your point please.
[20:07:09] <Lars_G> ernimril: That's too FOX of you
[20:07:12] <ernimril> Lars_G: I do not try to prove anything at the moment...
[20:07:26] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: no entiende.
[20:07:31] <ernimril> Lars_G: I like make and would like to have the time to investigate ant...
[20:07:36] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: ??
[20:07:40] <Lars_G> ernimril: Ok.
[20:07:54] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: no entiende ernimril ahora.
[20:07:54] <ernimril> Lars_G: I do not need ant at the moment and I build more than just java...
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[20:11:37] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: I don't care about Subversion yet.
[20:11:56] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Not widely adopted in mission-critical environments.  I'll wait until next year.
[20:12:22] <littlezoper> it's used in our mission-critical environment :)
[20:13:09] <pr3d4t0r> littlezoper: How big is your company?
[20:14:27] <ernimril> pr3d4t0r: define mission-critical please
[20:14:49] <vinse> mission-critical means it's not ok if it crashes
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[20:15:27] <ernimril> pr3d4t0r: subversion works well for us, we have ~8k files in it about 35k commited changesets I think (may be more). Worked well this fare. No big problems...
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[20:17:27] <mohadib> wahoo , i got an interview for a new java dev job tomorrow!1
[20:17:27] <littlezoper> pr3d4t0r: um... we do $50M in sales, but subversion is still critical to our mission, regardless of our size
[20:17:52] <mohadib> subversion is teh mad leet
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[20:20:26] <pr3d4t0r> littlezoper: Can't bet on it yet.
[20:20:40] <pr3d4t0r> littlezoper: I'd like to, but it's not ready yet.
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[20:21:09] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: usa cvs?
[20:21:14] <ernimril> the subversion client can cause quite a lot of disk thrashing with many files...
[20:21:29] <littlezoper> ernimril: yeah... the WC is quite huge
[20:22:05] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Yes.
[20:22:21] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: The automated builds are based on CVS.
[20:22:42] <AlphaOmega_wrk> hi, i have a gneric java question
[20:23:00] <ricky_clarkson> I have a generic Java answer.
[20:23:21] <nmx> ~tell AlphaOmega about generics
[20:23:21] <javabot> AlphaOmega, generics is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/language/generics.html
[20:23:39] <AlphaOmega_wrk> i have an interface, and its called interface X,   i have another interface, called interface Y, Y extends X, since both are interfaces, what happens?  i noticed Y doesnt have to define the methods in X .... anyone know where i can look at what happens when an interfaces EXTENDS another interface?
[20:23:41] <ricky_clarkson> And there it is.
[20:23:46] * nmx is so witty
[20:23:57] <pr3d4t0r> LOL - http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=16246448&method=full&siteid=66633&headline=disabled-outrage-over-wheelchair-called-the-spazz--name_page.html
[20:23:58] <AlphaOmega_wrk> s/w/s/
[20:24:10] <ricky_clarkson> AlphaOmega_wrk: Any classes that implement the subinterface must implement the methods from BOTH interfaces.
[20:24:17] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell AlphaOmega_wrk about interfaces
[20:24:17] <javabot> AlphaOmega_wrk, interfaces is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/interpack/createinterface.html
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[20:24:40] <AlphaOmega_wrk> ricky_clarkson : no implement, EXTENDS
[20:24:49] <AlphaOmega_wrk> i have an interfcae that extends* another interface
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[20:25:00] <ricky_clarkson> AlphaOmega_wrk: No classes extend interfaces.
[20:25:04] <ricky_clarkson> AlphaOmega_wrk: IK know that,I was answering that.
[20:25:07] <AlphaOmega_wrk> i know
[20:25:07] <AlphaOmega_wrk> ugh
[20:25:10] <AlphaOmega_wrk> its an interface
[20:25:17] <AlphaOmega_wrk> interface X EXTENDS interface Y
[20:25:24] <ricky_clarkson> I know.  Still.
[20:25:42] <AlphaOmega_wrk> oh
[20:25:42] <AlphaOmega_wrk> ok
[20:25:44] <ricky_clarkson> I haven't forgotten yet.
[20:25:49] <ricky_clarkson> Oh, wait.  I have now.
[20:25:53] <ernimril> AlphaOmega_wrk: class Z implements Y gives that Z must have all methods of X and Y
[20:25:53] <AlphaOmega_wrk> :\
[20:26:10] <AlphaOmega_wrk> ah, ty ernimril !
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[20:26:28] <AlphaOmega_wrk> thgats what i assumed
[20:26:33] <ernimril> AlphaOmega_wrk: that happen to be what ricky_clarkson said...
[20:26:49] <AlphaOmega_wrk> ah, ok i see
[20:26:52] <ricky_clarkson> ~rfd AlphaOmega_wrk
[20:26:53] <javabot> AlphaOmega_wrk, you might want to read this book: http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/cwalerst/reading%20for%20dummies.gif
[20:27:04] <AlphaOmega_wrk> lol
[20:27:06] <AlphaOmega_wrk> oh man
[20:27:17] <nmx> hahahaah
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[20:28:48] * AlphaOmega_wrk got spanked
[20:29:14] <mohadib> sounds fun
[20:29:23] <littlezoper> haha
[20:30:39] <Lars_G> AlphaOmega_wrk: Mmmmm, spanking
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[20:34:39] <AlphaOmega_wrk> pr3d4t0r : http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&q=spazz%20wheelchair&btnG=Search&sa=N&tab=wn   notice how its an american comany doing this, but google only returns uk papers reporting the story ..... thats odd
[20:34:50] <AlphaOmega_wrk> ( or not
[20:35:02] <pr3d4t0r> AlphaOmega_wrk: ::shrug::
[20:35:11] <pr3d4t0r> AlphaOmega_wrk: People are too damn sensitive about bullshit.
[20:35:32] <pr3d4t0r> AlphaOmega_wrk: I think those advocate groups are having a spazz too ;)
[20:35:43] <Lars_G> AlphaOmega_wrk: "The name is the highly offensive and outdated term for 'spastic' in Britain." It seems the offensive meaning is localized.
[20:35:54] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Even belonging to a minory I agree with you.
[20:35:58] <AlphaOmega_wrk> spazz is a bad word in usa too
[20:36:03] <jwormy> Lars_G, what minority?
[20:36:18] <Lars_G> jwormy: I am Gay, and Pagan
[20:36:20] <AlphaOmega_wrk> Lars_G : plus its a usa company doing it, i would expect to see one us newspaper to carry the story
[20:36:40] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: You know, don't let labels be applied to you.
[20:36:52] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Nod. I know.
[20:36:53] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: That's my biggest beef with people like Jessie Jackson.
[20:37:13] <jwormy> Jessie Jackson is one of the biggest idiots of the era
[20:37:20] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: If I let labels be applied to me, I'd be in a corner somewhere washing dishes and cleaning tables for a living.
[20:37:48] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: And speekeeng Engleesh like dis.
[20:37:57] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Still it rubs the wrong way when I play online for a while after the kids say "that's gay" for the 100th time.
[20:38:08] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Man, that's so... gay!
[20:38:08] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: true.
[20:38:08] <jwormy> pr3d4t0r, actually it owuld be cutting grass in my area... but whatever..   :joking:  its up to you to outlive your racials 'generalizations'
[20:38:09] * pr3d4t0r runs
[20:38:22] <Lars_G> jwormy: Nope. I think Jack Thompson is stupidier yet.
[20:38:50] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: I said "100th time" but since you're a good friend, I'll impale you at the first event.
[20:39:11] <Lars_G> jwormy: Actually I think you'd be in prission or a mental institution.. but that's me.
[20:39:29] <jwormy> Lars_G, it rubs you the wrong way as it rubs handicap people the wrong way over this spazz wheelchair thing..
[20:39:30] <Lars_G> jwormy: You still have chance to land in the fun house if you apply yourself.
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[20:39:41] <Lars_G> jwormy: It's not the same.
[20:39:41] <cheeser> and none of this has anything to do with java...
[20:39:52] <Lars_G> cheeser: Let me close the idea please (prays)
[20:40:11] <jwormy> Lars_G, umm ok... 'its never the same... when you're talking about MY ........'
[20:40:15] <Lars_G> jwormy: the weelchair is a product, the case I exemplified is the intentional use of the word as an insult connecting the word to a negative meaning.
[20:40:20] <Lars_G> cheeser: There I closed. thanks.
[20:40:45] <AlphaOmega_wrk> cheeser : sorry
[20:40:49] <jwormy> remeber to restate your thesis :)
[20:40:50] <Lars_G> cheeser: Yep. sorry
[20:40:58] <Lars_G> jwormy: I'll /msg
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[20:41:59] <cheeser> wb cybereal
[20:42:03] <cybereal> hi
[20:42:24] <cybereal> This is my favorite time of the year because Taco Time has Pumpkin Empanadas ... omfg they are soo good
[20:43:08] <mohadib> gross
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[20:43:14] <mohadib> cybereal: you kidding?
[20:43:26] <cheeser> cybereal: nice
[20:43:26] <cybereal> mohadib: no I'm 100% serious
[20:43:32] * cybereal has a belly full now
[20:43:37] <mohadib> sounds kinda good
[20:43:52] <littlezoper> cheeser: braum's has thei pumpkin ice cream out :)
[20:44:09] <cheeser> mmmmm.  braum's.
[20:44:18] <mohadib> cybereal: in new mexico we have green chili ice crem and green chili burgers at MacDs and BurgerKing
[20:44:31] <littlezoper> cheeser: :)
[20:44:39] <mohadib> braums is good , they have the best pecan and choclate ice cream
[20:44:51] <littlezoper> i think they have the best ice cream period
[20:44:56] <cybereal> mohadib: I dunno about green chili ice cream; but burgers would be tasty
[20:45:06] <Aradorn> cold stone creamery has awsome ice cream
[20:45:12] <cybereal> Aradorn: at a high price
[20:45:15] <Aradorn> true
[20:45:16] <Lars_G> cheeser: And this has to do with java how?? ;) *poke* *poke*
[20:45:17] <littlezoper> though my bro-in-law swears that the gelattos (sp?) in Italy are much better.  i'll have to take his word for it :P
[20:45:17] <Aradorn> but its still good
[20:45:18] <Aradorn> =)
[20:45:21] <cybereal> Yeah it's tasty
[20:45:40] * littlezoper beats Lars_G  :)
[20:45:49] <AlphaOmega_wrk> we have a gellateria around the corner
[20:45:59] <AlphaOmega_wrk> italian ice cream ,mmmmmm
[20:46:05] * ricky_clarkson avoided gellateri in Italy.
[20:46:22] <cheeser> /kick Lars_G
[20:46:39] <Lars_G> Man all this love just for me.
[20:46:54] <jwormy> and oddly enough, it's all man love..
[20:47:05] <ricky_clarkson> I nwoudln't say that was odd.
[20:47:11] <Lars_G> My charm is irresistible jwormy
[20:47:21] <cheeser> it's the smell that puts people off...
[20:47:40] * Lars_G chokes cheeser
[20:47:52] <vinse> ~jwormy
[20:47:52] <javabot> vinse, jwormy is an asshat.
[20:47:56] <vinse> god i love that
[20:47:59] * cheeser pinches his nose and the choking stops.
[20:49:16] <Lars_G> You outwitted me cheeser, I concede
[20:49:28] <mohadib> vinse: ;)
[20:49:36] <Lars_G> what?
[20:49:40] <cheeser> 8^)=
[20:49:51] <Lars_G> No.... slava is the asshat, jwormy is the deviant!
[20:49:59] <mohadib> vinse: who'd have thought asshat could be son entertaning when used in the right xontext
[20:50:16] <ricky_clarkson> ~jwormy
[20:50:16] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, jwormy is an asshat.
[20:50:22] <mohadib> haha
[20:50:28] <jwormy> vinse, the asshat factoid was added by jcscoobyrs .. and me and him have a special bond about it
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[20:50:47] <Bevin> hi
[20:50:48] <mohadib> javabot: jcscoobyrs++
[20:50:49] <javabot> jcscoobyrs has a karma level of 21, mohadib
[20:50:52] <mohadib> jwormy: ;)
[20:50:54] <cheeser> javabot: jeremy
[20:50:54] <javabot> cheeser, I have no idea what jeremy is.
[20:50:57] <cheeser> bah
[20:50:59] <cheeser> javabot: jcscoobyrs
[20:50:59] <javabot> cheeser, jcscoobyrs is some American bloke called Jeremy.  Haha, Jeremy!
[20:51:02] <cheeser> there it is.
[20:51:03] <cheeser> 8^)=
[20:51:05] <Lars_G> ~lars_g
[20:51:06] <javabot> Lars_G, lars_g is Lars_G, don't try to understand him, he's too complex and varying for that. He's a lover of Java, XML, and admires Hunter S. Thompson and Frank Zappa. Need I say more?
[20:51:07] <mohadib> hehe
[20:51:11] <jwormy> there are a few of us jeremy's in here..
[20:51:14] <jwormy> all cool, of course
[20:51:22] <cheeser> fsvo cool
[20:51:24] <mohadib> hunter s thompson was cool
[20:51:24] <cybereal> Jeremy was a bullfrog
[20:51:37] <ricky_clarkson> Stupid Jeremy.
[20:51:47] <cheeser> Jeremiah
[20:51:58] <cybereal> I know someone named Jeremy E. Remy.  HIs parents must've been real jokers, to name him J.E.Remy
[20:52:08] <mohadib> lol
[20:52:12] <jwormy> lol
[20:52:14] <jwormy> dude, thats so wrong
[20:52:24] <cybereal> He wants to be a writer; so maybe it will help him
[20:52:33] <vinse> i used to take calls at my last job from an aussie customer named Mathew Mathews
[20:52:36] <cybereal> or maybe not who knows?
[20:52:49] <ricky_clarkson> I knew someone called Peter Ronsen.#
[20:52:56] <ricky_clarkson> Oh, wait, that's not funny.
[20:53:02] <vinse> whew
[20:53:10] <vinse> i was thinking "boy i sure dont get that joke"
[20:53:28] <cheeser> 8^)=
[20:53:31] <Lars_G> vinse: It's ok. Ricky's not common.
[20:53:35] <ricky_clarkson> Here's the real part - he was Gary Glitter's number 1 fan before the conviction.
[20:54:06] <vinse> the conviction made him like gary glitter less, or other people like him more?
[20:54:09] <mohadib> ricky you own a not
[20:55:07] <ricky_clarkson> vinse: The former.
[20:55:12] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: make sense.
[20:55:42] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: but it's soo hard
[20:56:07] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: That kind of talk will get you banned.
[20:56:42] <mohadib> ok
[20:56:44] <mohadib> so
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[20:58:25] <mohadib> my conceding to making little to no sense is kick/ban worthy material?
[20:58:47] <ricky_clarkson> Try taking it out of context.
[20:59:15] <mohadib> oh
[20:59:26] <mohadib> er... that seems kinda gross now
[21:01:29] <Cow_woC> cheeser: given a Hibernate proxy object, how do you find out what object it is representing *without* initializing it using Hibernate.getClass()? That is, I don't mind if it returns a superclass of the actual class, but I want to get the type without polling the DB. Any ideas?
[21:03:17] <cheeser> not really.
[21:04:22] <Cow_woC> cheeser: well, I can do it using proxy.getClass().getSuperClass() and walk up the tree until I find an object which implements HibernateObject (which all my objects do)
[21:04:36] <Cow_woC> that works... but it seems like a hack. Surely there must be a more official way :)
[21:05:15] <Lars_G> cheeser: Any ideas on what I asked in the other channel?
[21:05:16] <Cow_woC> or anyway, all I want to do is session.load() to move a POJO from one Session to another without retaining its state.
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[21:06:12] <cheeser> Lars_G: i'm looking
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[21:10:27] <jcscoobyrs> Wow...Got a ++ without being here.  ;)
[21:10:44] <jcscoobyrs> ricky_clarkson: You should your mouth.  At least my name isn't Ricky.
[21:11:08] <Cow_woC> cheeser: found HibernateProxyHelper
[21:11:12] <Cow_woC> it seems to do what I want
[21:11:20] <mohadib> jcscoobyrs: + shut?
[21:11:52] <jcscoobyrs> mohadib: You lost me.
[21:12:09] <cybereal> jcscoobyrs: read what you wrote previously more carefully
[21:12:33] <jcscoobyrs> Ah...
[21:12:34] <jcscoobyrs> lol
[21:12:36] <jcscoobyrs> s/should/shut/
[21:13:16] <Lars_G> s/should/should shut/
[21:13:17] <Lars_G> better
[21:13:28] <jcscoobyrs> I've never seen the syntax "+ <suggestion>".
[21:13:30] <mohadib> or just "shut it chump"
[21:13:33] <mohadib> for short
[21:13:35] <jcscoobyrs> Lars_G: Works either way.
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[21:13:48] <Lars_G> or s/\(should\)/\1 shut/
[21:13:53] <Lars_G> if you're complicated
[21:14:00] <jcscoobyrs> Should say.  You shut your pie hole ricky_clarkson before I kick you in the jugular.
[21:14:00] <mohadib> nice , back refrence?
[21:14:02] <synic> anyone have any experience coding j2me for the blackberry?
[21:14:17] <Lars_G> mohadib: Yep, vim style if you note I used \( instead of (
[21:14:23] <Lars_G> synic: pandora-- might have some
[21:14:31] <synic> cool
[21:14:33] <Lars_G> synic: Why don't you just ask and see if someone responds?
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[21:14:54] <jcscoobyrs> I like that approach.
[21:14:54] <synic> Lars_G: just looking for a place to begin.
[21:15:12] <synic> (without using the blackberry jdk)
[21:16:38] <[algo]> how to serialize object into XML ?
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[21:17:18] <ernimril> [algo]: there are xml-serializers available if you search the net, but why do you want it?
[21:17:21] <Lars_G> [algo]: Use hibernate with a XML backend?
[21:17:35] <[algo]> I need it for XML-RPC
[21:17:46] <[algo]> hibernate..
[21:17:56] <[algo]> isn't it too much for a simple task ?
[21:19:13] <Lars_G> might be, but it's robust :)
[21:19:28] <mohadib> [algo]: http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/articles/persistence4/   maybe this can help
[21:19:38] <jcscoobyrs> Doesn't J2SE serialize to XML natively in the API?
[21:19:52] <Lars_G> There was a site, semi offitial or offitial to java with Java based projects, any idea which one it is? one of the biggest out there, but I lost the url
[21:20:04] <Bevin> jcscoobyrs: XMLEncoder
[21:20:47] <[algo]> I heard about digester ?
[21:20:50] <[algo]> commons-digester
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[21:21:34] <jcscoobyrs> Bevin: Thanks.
[21:21:38] <jcscoobyrs> Just couldn't remember.
[21:21:52] <[algo]> in fact, I need a simple form because the client is PHP !
[21:21:54] <[algo]> ;)
[21:22:04] <[algo]> server is Java
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[21:22:44] <[algo]> so I'll have to write PHP unserialization myself unless there exists something standard
[21:22:50] <cybereal> [algo]: you really ought to read about what xml-rpc is; and here is the first result of googling it with java: http://ws.apache.org/xmlrpc/
[21:23:08] <cybereal> [algo]: there are a set of standard 'types' that xml-rpc supports, I suggest you design your app to use those types
[21:23:09] <[algo]> cybereal: I
[21:23:12] <cybereal> and not try to serialize java crap
[21:23:17] <cybereal> do it right man, come on
[21:23:20] <[algo]> cybereal: you are joking
[21:23:32] <[algo]> cyberial: XML-RPC can not transfer objects
[21:23:36] <cheeser> javabot: tell [algo] about serialization
[21:23:36] <javabot> [algo], see http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/essential/io/serialization.html and http://www.antwerkz.com/antwerkz/articles/serialization/index.jsp
[21:23:42] <cheeser> [algo]: read the second link
[21:23:43] <cybereal> [algo]: no, it can't, and it SHOULD NOT
[21:23:58] <[algo]> cyberial: that's why I need serialization that PHP can understand
[21:24:07] <[algo]> cyberial: or that I can make PHP understand
[21:24:18] <[algo]> *cybereal :)
[21:24:20] <cybereal> [algo]: you get an xml-rpc handler for php, and one for java, and you use them to talk to each other
[21:24:30] <[algo]> cybereal: yes, it works
[21:24:38] <cybereal> [algo]: why in the hell are you using php as a client anyway?
[21:24:43] <[algo]> cyberial: not Java method result is object
[21:24:47] <cybereal> [algo]: go here and read http://www.xmlrpc.com/
[21:24:59] <[algo]> cybereal, cause there is working system in PHP already
[21:25:13] <cybereal> [algo]: You need to understand what you're talking about before you start coding
[21:25:15] <[algo]> cybereal: Java method returns an object
[21:25:24] <cybereal> [algo]: so what?
[21:25:31] <[algo]> cybereal: I need to transfer it into PHP
[21:25:37] <cybereal> Yeah what's your point?
[21:25:39] <[algo]> cybereal as answer
[21:25:48] <[algo]> cybereal: so I'm going to serialize it in some way
[21:25:50] <cybereal> format it into data types that make sense in xml-rpc
[21:25:54] <[algo]> cybereal YES
[21:25:55] <cybereal> if that's how you want to do it
[21:25:59] <[algo]> cybereal: format it into string
[21:26:05] <cybereal> You don't need some magical serilization technique
[21:26:07] <[algo]> cybereal that is "serialization"
[21:26:09] <cybereal> xml-rpc supports strings
[21:26:30] <[algo]> cybereal: yes, it does, but how do I turn the object into string
[21:26:35] <mohadib> [algo]: why not just save the objkect fields to a db for while and recreate it when you need it?
[21:26:37] <cybereal> [algo]: depends on the object
[21:26:41] <Lars_G> [algo]: There is a standard but it's somewhat old and dusty
[21:27:00] <Lars_G> [algo]: wddx, php 5 has it built in as a module, and I am sure there a few wddx classes for Java
[21:27:05] <[algo]> cybereal: yes, I hope there is a standard.. So that PHP will be abple to deserialize it
[21:27:07] <cybereal> [algo]: if you know don't know what the object is going to be, then you won't be able to use it with php
[21:27:11] <[algo]> wddx sounds close
[21:27:18] * cybereal gives up
[21:27:34] <[algo]> cybereal: PHP has class A, Java has class A
[21:27:51] * ricky_clarkson wakes up.
[21:27:54] <ricky_clarkson> ~wayttd [algo]
[21:27:54] <javabot> [algo], ricky_clarkson wants to know what you are trying to do.
[21:27:54] <Lars_G> [algo]: http://www.openwddx.org/
[21:27:59] <[algo]> thanks
[21:28:02] * [algo] goes to check wddx
[21:28:20] <Lars_G> [algo]: Just remember, wddx is a nice idea, but it hasn't been completed or well adopted, so you're basically on your own in this.
[21:28:44] <[algo]> ricky: I'm looking for a standard cross-platform way of serializing objects so I can pass it from Java to PHP as an answer of XML-RPC
[21:28:58] <cybereal> [algo]: that's a bastardization of xml-rpc, don't do that
[21:29:02] <jwormy> ~unit testing
[21:29:03] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'junitx' might be appropriate:
[21:29:05] <javabot> jwormy, junitx is Assertion Extensions for JUnit providing the ability to make assertions in test cases that extend beyond the primitive "assert true", etc. that JUnit provides  http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/junitx and http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/j-unitx
[21:29:06] <mohadib> people look for the hardway here i think
[21:29:11] <cybereal> mohadib: definitely
[21:29:17] <jwormy> ~test case
[21:29:18] <javabot> jwormy, test case is a minimal independently runnable program, which demonstrates the problem; see http://www.physci.org/codes/sscce.jsp for details and a HOWTO
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[21:29:54] <Lars_G> [algo]: Btw what you're trying to transfer is the data of objects. you won't be able to transfer whole objects between Java and PHP.
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[21:30:06] <[algo]> Lars_G: sure
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[21:30:39] <ricky_clarkson> [algo]: What would you use if it was two Java programs interacting?
[21:31:00] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: I'd use RMI, or some sort of rational serialization in that case.
[21:31:17] <mohadib> wth is php gonna do with a java object?
[21:31:31] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Then use CORBA, or look for a language-independent serialisation.
[21:31:51] <Lars_G> mohadib: Yes I said so, what he really needs to pass is the data not the Object
[21:31:55] <[algo]> mohadib: it has a native class for the object
[21:31:57] <mohadib> yep
[21:32:06] <mohadib> [algo]: ok..
[21:32:07] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: CORBA is not a bad idea, and WDDX is a lang-idependent form of serialization
[21:32:08] <[algo]> yes, data :)
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[21:32:34] * [algo] reading openwddx. :)
[21:32:46] <ricky_clarkson> Sorry to throw logic into the works.
[21:33:01] <[algo]>  WDDX, is a free, open XML-based technology that allows Web applications created with any platform to easily exchange data with one another over the Web.
[21:33:04] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: ??
[21:33:10] <mohadib> [algo]: if all you need is the data,.... use anything
[21:33:18] <mohadib> a fliping socket if need be :p
[21:33:31] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: tengoque logico.
[21:33:36] <cybereal> seriously, no need to complicate your app if you know the structure of the data that is being sent
[21:34:22] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Que????
[21:34:30] <mohadib> ~que
[21:34:30] <javabot> mohadib, que is http://lavender.cime.net/~ricky/que.html
[21:34:47] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: nada.
[21:34:50] <vinse> lol
[21:34:51] <ricky_clarkson> no es importante.
[21:34:59] <vinse> i was hoping that was going to be a picture of manuel
[21:35:00] <[algo]> hmmm.. What's so difficult with cross-platform object serialization ?
[21:35:02] <vinse> and it was!
[21:35:12] <[algo]> object links can be serialized I hope
[21:35:13] <Lars_G> Please? anyone? you ricky_clarkson ?
[21:35:15] <[algo]> object data can be
[21:35:16] <ricky_clarkson> [algo]: You.
[21:35:17] <[algo]> ghm
[21:35:46] <Lars_G> I am looking for a place it is a semioffitial or offitial (sun) community page collecting java based projects, small and huge..... it's the biggest one, but my brain forgot the name and my browser the url
[21:37:03] <cheeser> java.net?
[21:37:05] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: puede aser gramaticas ingleses?
[21:37:32] <Lars_G> [algo]: If it's something uncomplicated and repetitive I'd use a standard XML stream with a self defined DTD, it's simpler. And mos tlanguages have a nice XML parser nowadays
[21:37:52] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Dude, your spanish is rotting, when I first met you, it was much better than it is now.
[21:37:59] <Lars_G> cheeser: let me look... java.com it's not.
[21:38:12] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: es la influencia de la guesswork.
[21:38:31] <Lars_G> cheeser: Thanks, that was it. I'd almost hug it, if I didn't know the outcome will be painfull.
[21:38:54] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: No excuses, you've let your spanish deteriorate. keep practicing and learning dude.
[21:39:21] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: I am, but note that the stuff I'm trying to say in Spanish now is harder.
[21:39:27] <vinse> "guesswork" is spanish?
[21:39:29] <Lars_G> hmmm ok
[21:39:35] <ricky_clarkson> vinse: Nope.
[21:39:38] <Lars_G> vinse: Nope. It's spanglish. ;)
[21:39:57] <ricky_clarkson> I can say hello and tell you I want it but I don;t need it with no rouble.
[21:40:08] <ricky_clarkson> s/rouble/trouble/
[21:40:24] <vinse> mi lapiz es grande, mi lapiz es amarillo
[21:40:39] <mohadib> amarillo == ?
[21:40:40] <ricky_clarkson> lapiz?
[21:40:46] <ricky_clarkson> yellow
[21:41:10] <mohadib> hmm , I wonder if amarillo texas is named about something yello
[21:41:24] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: The inhabitants' courage.
[21:41:32] <vinse> doesnt lapiz mean pencil?
[21:41:35] <mohadib> lol
[21:41:54] <cybereal> Hah
[21:42:11] <Lars_G> vinse: Yep.
[21:42:14] <ricky_clarkson> Something I find wierd - Spanish speakers seem to quote things using - instead of ".
[21:42:54] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Is that normal?
[21:43:03] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Only for conversations and some type of quotes, but yes... when you're quoting a famous phrase or similar you still use "
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[21:43:36] <ricky_clarkson> Vale.
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[21:43:52] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Also (I think in english it's the same) you can quote a single word or short phrase (adjetive) with " to denote you do not beleive in it or it's ironical.
[21:44:05] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: For example: Miguel el "inteligente"
[21:44:11] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: I want syntasx highlighting for that. ;)
[21:44:15] <Lars_G> lol
[21:44:24] <cybereal> Lars_G: yeah,you can do that in English too
[21:44:43] <ricky_clarkson> cybereal: He's pointing out the exceptions to a rule.
[21:45:06] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: he said "I think in english it's the same" and I was just confirming that.
[21:45:08] * ricky_clarkson has about 5 seconds between typing things and them appearing in his IRC client.
[21:45:22] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Ah, you're drugged up again?
[21:45:41] <ricky_clarkson> No, my packets are touring the world.
[21:45:54] <Lars_G> Ah how nice
[21:46:01] <ricky_clarkson> The only drugs I take are alcohol and baila salsa.
[21:46:06] <Lars_G> Geronimo gained J2EE 1.4 certification
[21:46:24] <mohadib> DARE (drugs are really expensive)
[21:46:39] <ricky_clarkson> Drugs are cheap, I'm just not interested.
[21:46:50] <Lars_G> cheeser: and in case you're interested and didn't know already, TestNG 4.0 is out.
[21:47:07] <ricky_clarkson> I knew it was gay.
[21:47:13] <mohadib> lol
[21:47:13] <mohadib> !
[21:47:50] <ricky_clarkson> JTiger and JUnit can let them into their parties now.
[21:47:57] <mohadib> lol
[21:48:04] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: go to work
[21:48:10] <ricky_clarkson> ~irc mohadib speak like this teh teh teh
[21:48:10] <javabot> jaja mohadib speak like this teh teh teh lol
[21:48:28] <ricky_clarkson> Mon Oct 17 20:50:06 BST 2005
[21:48:30] <mohadib> ah
[21:48:36] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: I could, but the building gets locked in an hour.
[21:48:40] <mohadib> hmm
[21:48:50] <mohadib> thats no excuse
[21:49:02] <ricky_clarkson> Correct.  It's a reason.
[21:49:53] <mohadib> if you argue for your shortcomings ... they truely are yours
[21:50:03] <ricky_clarkson> Real Programmers don't trust cars because they've met the Dumb Programmers who write engine management systems.
[21:50:23] <pr3d4t0r> Bevin!
[21:50:32] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: The shortcoming is of the building, not of myself.
[21:50:35] <teralaser> Hey, don't talk bad about Mole2
[21:51:37] <cheeser> Lars_G: oh, i know that already.  a bug fix i've been yammering about it is in it.
[21:51:44] <cheeser> Lars_G: i'm a committer  8^)=
[21:51:48] <Lars_G> cheeser: Nice :)
[21:51:49] <ricky_clarkson> There is time to go out for a dance though, or a game of pool.
[21:52:12] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: Whose password did you steal?!
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[21:52:30] <FaeLLe> this is my friends msn convo, http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/JuGiBX18.html
[21:52:41] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Btw, is the offer for a copy your support material for the talk still up?
[21:52:46] <FaeLLe> he says java is only pass by value on method calls :p
[21:53:01] <ricky_clarkson> It is.
[21:53:04] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: http://eugeneciurana.com
[21:53:23] <mohadib> FaeLLe: it is
[21:53:35] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Doh. Nevermind
[21:53:36] <ricky_clarkson> FaeLLe: I think you should insult your friend as is custom for being correct.
[21:53:38] <pr3d4t0r> FaeLLe!
[21:53:39] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Thanks
[21:53:41] <mohadib> FaeLLe: you pass a copy of a ref
[21:53:43] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Por nada.
[21:53:43] <FaeLLe> ricky_clarkson: hmm but what about objects you can pass as parameters and then modifying them and seeing them modified
[21:53:49] <mohadib> or the primitive
[21:53:55] <ricky_clarkson> FaeLLe: No, you can only pass references, not objects.
[21:54:09] <mohadib> FaeLLe: http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/javaqa/2000-05/03-qa-0526-pass.html
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[21:54:17] <ricky_clarkson> ~pbv
[21:54:18] <javabot> all method parameters are passed by value in java.  see http://java.sun.com/docs/books/vmspec/2nd-edition/html/Concepts.doc.html#26454 and http://www.yoda.arachsys.com/java/passing.html for more information.
[21:54:18] <ricflazz> FaeLLe: i think that only works when you are passing arrays
[21:54:18] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Yes but the reference refers to the original Object or to a clone?
[21:54:18] <mohadib> FaeLLe: ^^ great stuff
[21:54:29] <mohadib> Lars_G: yes
[21:54:32] <mohadib> but the ref is copy
[21:54:33] <ricflazz> but arrays are references
[21:54:35] <FaeLLe> ah so theres a diff heh
[21:54:39] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: To the original.
[21:54:42] <ricky_clarkson> ricflazz: Wrong.
[21:54:49] <init64> hi
[21:54:57] <Lars_G> mohadib: a question with two options can't be answered with "yes" unless these options are yes or no.
[21:55:00] <ricky_clarkson> There's no difference in how arrays and other objects work in terms of pass by value.
[21:55:14] <mohadib> Lars_G:  Yes but the reference refers to the original Object or to a clone?  yes
[21:55:17] <mohadib> better
[21:55:17] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Chinese people would disagree.
[21:55:26] <ricflazz> i meant that arrays seem like they pass by value
[21:55:29] <mohadib> the obj
[21:55:33] <mohadib> not a clone
[21:55:35] <init64> I'm looking for a way to store properties in a file that would be universally findable... on unix or windows..
[21:55:36] <ricky_clarkson> ricflazz: They do not.
[21:55:36] <mohadib> only the ref is copyed
[21:55:38] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: So they pass values, but the value is a reference, so the end result is that you have access to the Object
[21:55:44] <mohadib> not refs point to the same object
[21:55:47] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: You're right about chinese people.
[21:55:49] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Yes.
[21:56:16] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: "Shall I turn the TV off or leave it on?"  "Yes".
[21:56:18] <init64> I would say: for mac ~/.properties would be easy.. but it won't work with windows
[21:56:27] <ricky_clarkson> Or better: "Shal I leave the TV off or on?".
[21:56:39] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: I know I know. I've dealt with chinese people before. and lots of times
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[21:57:04] <ricky_clarkson> Muy frustationante.
[21:57:17] <ricky_clarkson> Is that a word? ;)
[21:57:28] <ricky_clarkson> frustrationamente?
[21:57:29] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: works for me ;)
[21:57:31] <Lars_G> init64: ~ is usseable in windows too (with a little different syntax), so it is valid (for newer windows afaik), jsut don't expect .<something> to be "hidden" there
[21:57:37] <ricky_clarkson> frusttracionamente.
[21:57:42] <ricky_clarkson> s/tt/t/
[21:57:48] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Frustrante
[21:58:04] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Wow, lss than 10 syllables! ;)
[21:58:06] <init64> Lars_G : cool
[21:58:09] <init64> thanks
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[21:58:29] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Frustrante: Que causa frustración.
[21:58:38] *** dover has quit IRC
[21:58:41] <ricky_clarkson> entiendo.
[21:58:51] <pr3d4t0r> Bevin: Send it to me again later.
[21:59:15] <cybereal> nintendo!
[21:59:19] * cybereal hides
[21:59:42] <ricky_clarkson> cybereal: no entiendo could be misheard as that.
[21:59:48] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: "and finally provides a detailed HOWTO for Axis deployment in one of the highest volume, mission-critical production environments in the world"
[22:00:00] <ricflazz> ricky_clarkson: but doesnt the parm of InputStream.read(byte[]) simulate byte*[]?
[22:00:05] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Dude, you have a lot to be proud of. but Amazon and Ebay are clearly bigger than you are ;)
[22:00:20] <ricky_clarkson> ricflazz: It is not an array of byte references.  At all.
[22:00:44] <ricflazz> ok, i got it
[22:00:46] <ricky_clarkson> The parameter is a reference to an array of bytes.
[22:00:48] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: No, they aren't.
[22:00:51] <ricflazz> its a pointer to a byte array
[22:00:51] <Lars_G> Well since primitives are not Object, they have references at all, don't they?
[22:00:59] <ricky_clarkson> Ok.
[22:01:12] <Lars_G> they have NO references is what i meant
[22:01:17] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Neither of them handles its own inventories.
[22:01:18] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: muy confusante.
[22:01:18] <ricky_clarkson> confusionante.
[22:01:26] <Lars_G> Only Objects Have refrerences, don't they?
[22:01:31] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Neither of them handles its own logistics.
[22:01:38] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: Yes.
[22:01:44] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Amazon is more like a mall.
[22:01:50] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: ok
[22:02:13] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: eBay -- maybe.  Yet they keep stealing/trying to steal our guys away from us ;)
[22:02:28] <dvoss> What is the syntax to initialize a member variable with an anonymous class that both extends and implements?
[22:02:29] <ricflazz> pr3d4t0r: where do you work?
[22:02:45] <pr3d4t0r> ricflazz: A little company called Walmart.com
[22:02:59] <ricflazz> wow
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[22:03:15] <Lars_G> ricky_clarkson: Do classes with static methods, or Static classes have references too?
[22:03:29] <ricky_clarkson> dvoss: An anonymoius class can only extend one class or implment one interface, direclty.
[22:03:33] <dvoss> ah
[22:03:36] <dvoss> thx
[22:03:53] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: There is a reference to the object that referes to the class.
[22:03:59] <ricky_clarkson> Lars_G: TheClass.class
[22:05:00] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Have they tried to steal you too?
[22:05:04] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: That Spazz wheelchair was in Ben Elton's book, Gridlock.  Back in the 80s I think.
[22:05:17] <ricky_clarkson> For the same reasons too.
[22:05:19] *** mrsolo has quit IRC
[22:05:35] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: I love the name.
[22:05:50] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Others have.  I'm not going anywhere for a while.  I'm not done here.
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[22:06:25] * ricky_clarkson starts a Sad Bastard range of golfwear.
[22:06:28] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: I'm working on too many sexy projects.  This morning I had a presentation with the CIO and all direct reports about a potential new world order.  Life's good :)
[22:06:39] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: sweet
[22:06:58] <Lars_G> Don't forget us south. ;)
[22:07:03] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: So I get my cheques on time, I have my own hours, and I play with cool stuff.  What else is there?
[22:07:16] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Nothing else
[22:07:34] <ricky_clarkson> I have largely the same except for when I'm teaching.
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[22:09:14] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Hmmm REST seems very very interesting.
[22:10:02] <ricky_clarkson> Some say it's just HTTP abstracted.
[22:10:46] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: It does the job.
[22:11:16] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Most SOAP implementations are overkill shit that just serves to make IBM/BEA/etc. more money.
[22:12:14] *** Twiun[away] is now known as Twiun
[22:12:32] <mohadib> heh
[22:13:17] <Lars_G> There is barely a tool or standard that "is good" or "is bad".
[22:13:30] <Lars_G> Everything has it's use and niche, the important thing is finding it.
[22:14:20] <littlezoper> Lars_G: except for Perl, which is universally evil :)
[22:14:47] <ernimril> littlezoper: perl is nice for some tasks...
[22:15:04] <littlezoper> ernimril: you sound like my manager :P
[22:15:28] <littlezoper> i just finished porting one of his perl apps to java.  i'm glad to see that one done.
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[22:16:50] <ricky_clarkson> Perl's ok in similar ways to C++.
[22:17:05] <ricky_clarkson> If you can handle the syntax and don't use every possible feature at once, it's ok.
[22:17:35] <mohadib> yep
[22:17:45] <mohadib> i feel perl coders try to write unreadable code
[22:17:51] <mohadib> as if it is leet or something
[22:18:07] <mohadib> the less common the feature , the happier they are to use it
[22:18:08] <littlezoper> mohadib: that's my problem with.  they try to prove something in how cryptic their code is
[22:18:15] <mohadib> like using begin to fuck with @inc
[22:18:19] <mohadib> discusting
[22:18:23] <ernimril> mohadib: what? http://www.khelekore.org/~robo/T
[22:18:35] <littlezoper> someone here said this the other day: "like perl where you write one line and it is a small operating system with a fancy scheduling algorithm"
[22:18:37] <mohadib> ernimril: hehe
[22:18:47] <mohadib> javabot: littlezoper++
[22:18:47] <javabot> littlezoper has a karma level of 18, mohadib
[22:19:30] <mohadib> ernimril: the guys at my work use ... "do" with modperl
[22:19:44] <mohadib> this effectivly defeats mod perl
[22:20:13] <mohadib> but they feel leet by being able to hack a solution as oppesed to doing it right (which might take time and planning)
[22:20:47] <ricky_clarkson> Ah, the lovely area where I teach salsa: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/manchester/4341724.stm
[22:22:09] <littlezoper> i'me taking picante lessons.  pico next week...
[22:22:33] <ricky_clarkson> What?>
[22:22:50] <mohadib> ?
[22:22:59] <mohadib> is that like how to eat hot sauce?
[22:23:32] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: He's talking about the sucky salsa, not the tasty  one.
[22:23:42] <ricky_clarkson> Yes, like this channel is about drinking coffee.
[22:23:47] <mohadib> ahh
[22:23:51] <cheeser> speaking of which...
[22:23:57] <littlezoper> picante sauce.  pico de gallo.
[22:24:00] <cheeser> ah.
[22:24:21] <mohadib> pico de gallo is not that good ... people put way too much celantro in it
[22:24:30] <littlezoper> cilantro++
[22:24:33] <ricky_clarkson> I should be able to show you my dancing online soon, was videoed on a digital camera last week.
[22:24:38] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: You haven't tried mine.
[22:24:39] <littlezoper> we just made some guacamole
[22:24:43] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Spare us.
[22:24:55] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: I know you're curious.
[22:25:07] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Did your pico de gallo have jicama?
[22:25:09] <mohadib> heh
[22:25:15] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: im not sure
[22:25:26] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Come visit.  I'll cook.
[22:25:29] <mohadib> :)
[22:25:45] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: when i get the new job ... i can afford to travel YAYA
[22:25:47] <mohadib> i will
[22:25:54] <pr3d4t0r> :)
[22:25:55] <pr3d4t0r> Cheers.
[22:25:59] * pr3d4t0r gets back to work.
[22:29:39] * ricky_clarkson downloads a video that is banned in the US.
[22:30:05] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: what video?
[22:30:21] <ricky_clarkson> Ali G - 'throw the jew down the well'.
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[22:30:34] <mohadib> heh , ali g show is funny
[22:30:35] <ricflazz> ricky_clarkson: its not banned
[22:30:42] <ricflazz> they played it on HBO
[22:30:44] <ricky_clarkson> I'm just curious to see what he's on about - the guy *is* a jew iirc.
[22:30:49] <ricflazz> ricky_clarkson: restecp
[22:30:51] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: you know who chris morris is... or peter cook?
[22:31:13] <ricky_clarkson> mohBoth sound familiar.
[22:31:18] <shingoki> sacha baron cohen is jewish I think
[22:31:53] <ricflazz> shingoki: fahreel
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[22:31:57] <ricky_clarkson> I think he's hilarious.
[22:32:04] <cheeser> take it to #aliG, please
[22:32:05] <everwicked> hello
[22:32:12] <shingoki> yeah ali g is cool
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[22:32:21] <ricky_clarkson> He hould have been on the video for 'pretty fly for a white guy'.
[22:32:27] <ricky_clarkson> </alig>
[22:33:34] <everwicked> I've been looking for a hosting company to host a couple of websites. One of them, fairly low traffic and the other may potentially escalate to a four-digit number. I will be using webwork and hibernate. Does anyone have any suggestions as to the requirements of such a project in terms of server?
[22:33:50] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: msg me your email , imma send you an mp3
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[22:34:22] <cheeser> everwicked: www.eapps.com
[22:34:23] <ricky_clarkson> ricky.clarkson at gmail dot com
[22:34:49] <mohadib> everwicked: http://www.layeredtech.com/  <-- $60 a month for ton of BW and a dedicated server
[22:35:04] <everwicked> mohadib: I was looking for something cheaper to start with
[22:35:19] *** Tac_work has joined ##java
[22:35:26] <everwicked> do you think a VPS package will be enough?
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[22:35:39] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: Is that you farting?  That's disgusting!
[22:36:37] <cheeser> everwicked: i use it for my corporate site. though it's fairly low traffic.  mainly blog and email atm.
[22:36:52] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: sent , hopefully the email wont be too big
[22:37:49] <everwicked> cheeser: what kind of numbers do you get (visitors) and how does that map to memory/cpu usage?
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[22:37:58] *** Geren has joined ##java
[22:37:59] <Geren> hi
[22:38:01] <Geren>    ServerSocket welcomeSocket=new ServerSocket(6789);
[22:38:01] <Geren>         while (true){
[22:38:01] <Geren>         Socket connectionSocket=welcomeSocket.accept();
[22:38:03] <Geren>         DataOutputStream output = new DataOutputStream(connectionSocket.getOutp\
[22:38:05] <Geren> utStream());
[22:38:07] <Geren>         output.writeBytes("Welcome!");
[22:38:09] <Geren>         }
[22:38:11] <Geren>     }
[22:38:12] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ricky_clarkson
[22:38:13] <Geren> is there something wrong with this code?
[22:38:15] <Geren> sorry about the flood :P
[22:38:16] <littlezoper> ~topicsmite Geren
[22:38:17] <javabot> And the wrath of /TOPIC descended with terrible fury upon Geren.  And all the people marvelled, saying, Behold, we too should read the /TOPIC, lest we be stricken.  And all the people read the /TOPIC, and went away edified.
[22:38:19] *** ricky_clarkson sets mode: +b %Geren!*@*
[22:38:20] <ricky_clarkson> eren
[22:38:26] <ricky_clarkson> Oops.
[22:38:58] *** {zink} is now known as Zipp0
[22:39:15] *** ricky_clarkson sets mode: -b %Geren!*@*
[22:39:42] <cheeser> bah.  +b is pointless.
[22:39:42] *** Zipp0 is now known as Zink0
[22:39:43] <ricky_clarkson> I can'treact very fast with lag. ;(
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[22:39:54] <Geren> ok
[22:39:54] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: I used +q
[22:39:57] <Geren> can someone look at my code
[22:40:03] *** ricky_clarkson sets mode: -o ricky_clarkson
[22:40:04] <mohadib> Geren: whats the problem
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[22:40:10] <mohadib> ~tell Geren about smart questions
[22:40:10] <javabot> Geren, smart questions is what you need to ask to understand a smart answer. See http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
[22:40:13] <cheeser> well, whatever.  it's still pointless
[22:40:32] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: I don't understand.
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[22:40:53] <Geren> ok i have written a simple server that prints "welcome" upon a connection from a client
[22:40:59] <Geren> but it does nto seem to work
[22:41:00] <Geren> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8381
[22:41:00] <mohadib> ok
[22:41:13] <Geren> i just want to make sure my server program is correct
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[22:41:32] <mohadib> dunno , try flushing
[22:41:38] <ricky_clarkson> How does it not work?
[22:41:39] <mohadib> is the client actually reading?
[22:41:40] <ernimril> Geren: you do not flush or close the output
[22:42:00] <Geren> how would i flush it?
[22:42:00] <Geren> lol
[22:42:11] <ricky_clarkson> Push the handle.
[22:42:18] <everwicked> cheeser: what kind of numbers do you get (visitors) and how does that map to memory/cpu usage? would you know?
[22:42:19] <ernimril> Geren: did you try looking at the api for the streams?
[22:42:20] <mohadib> flush()
[22:42:37] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Geren about io
[22:42:37] <javabot> Geren, io is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/essential/io
[22:42:50] <Geren> ok i'm reading it
[22:42:51] <cheeser> everwicked: i get a couple hundred hits/day on my blog.
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[22:43:00] <tieTYT> sup fellas
[22:43:13] <ricky_clarkson> Moin Honk^away.
[22:43:14] <Geren> thanks
[22:43:29] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: Must be automated. ;)
[22:43:36] <everwicked> cheeser: is that pushing your resources or?
[22:43:48] <cheeser> everwicked: not really.
[22:43:54] <cheeser> ricky_clarkson: mostly aggregators.  8^)=
[22:44:00] <mohadib> Geren: your server will only be able to handle one connection , then it will block
[22:44:11] <Geren> mohadib, right, but i'm only testing 1 connection
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[22:44:34] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: HOW DOES IT NOT WORK?
[22:44:35] <Geren> mohadib, can u show you my client prog?
[22:44:37] <everwicked> cheeser: so do you reckon there'd be a problem with your account and a couple THOUSAND users? considering it's the same kind of application?
[22:44:49] <Geren> ricky_clarkson, when i run my server and then my client prog, my client prog runs and then stops,
[22:44:55] <Geren> and my server prog keeps running
[22:44:59] <Geren> and there's no output whatsoever
[22:45:06] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: What do you expect to happen?
[22:45:10] <cheeser> everwicked: with mine personally, perhaps, though I know that they have accounts that can handle that traffic.
[22:45:22] <Geren> ricky_clarkson, i expect the server to print "welcome!" on the client's screen
[22:45:29] <Geren> here's my client prog: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8382
[22:45:32] <mohadib> Geren: try flush()
[22:45:35] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: The server is still shit.
[22:45:39] <Geren> i did try flush
[22:45:50] <ricky_clarkson> Try closing streams when you've finished with them.
[22:45:54] <Geren> i did
[22:46:22] <ricky_clarkson> Try writing bytes with streams, and chars with Writers.
[22:46:27] <Geren> here's my server prog: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8383
[22:46:33] <Drone> View mohadib's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8384
[22:46:41] <mohadib> Geren: maybe that will heklp ^
[22:46:47] <everwicked> cheeser: nice one. with VPS, can you install any kind of application? I wanted to install a CVS server (for private use)
[22:46:53] <ricky_clarkson> Try not using BufferedInputStream or BufferedReader until you've got stuff working.
[22:47:04] <everwicked> eApps VPS that is
[22:47:06] <Geren> ricky_clarkson, well hwo do i test if it works without printingsomething?
[22:47:06] <cheeser> i think CVS might already be there.  but yeah, i know some who have put svn there.
[22:47:17] <everwicked> great! thanks a lot!
[22:47:21] <cheeser> np
[22:47:22] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Er, you do print something.
[22:47:24] <Geren> is there anything wrong with my server prog?
[22:47:33] <ricky_clarkson> Yes, it doesn't close the streams.
[22:47:34] <Geren> ricky_clarkson, yea i tried to print welcome using writeBytes
[22:47:38] <Geren> i does!
[22:47:39] <Geren> look at it
[22:47:44] <Geren> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8383
[22:47:48] <ricky_clarkson> I am.
[22:47:59] <everwicked> cheeser: the eApps plan kicks midphase's plan, doesn't it? http://midphase.com/html_files/hosting_plan_vps.php
[22:47:59] <ricky_clarkson> Kindly point out the line that closes the stream[s]?
[22:48:04] <Geren> oh u mean close
[22:48:07] <Geren> ok let me try that
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[22:48:15] <ricky_clarkson> I said close, and I meant close.  Cryptic, huh?
[22:48:17] <testhk> Hey.. Is there any regex for java?
[22:48:27] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell testhk about javadoc String.split(*)
[22:48:27] <javabot> testhk, please see java.lang.String.split(java.lang.String): http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/String.html#split(java.lang.String)
[22:48:33] <mohadib> ~tell testhk about javadoc pattern
[22:48:33] <javabot> testhk, please see java.util.regex.Pattern: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/regex/Pattern.html
[22:48:52] <testhk> thanks
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[22:48:58] <Geren> ok i added close(), still nothing
[22:49:14] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: What character encoding are you writing those bytes with?
[22:49:20] <Geren> i never specfieid
[22:49:28] <Geren> is there a better way to write to the client without using writeBytes?
[22:49:28] <cHaoTiCa> Geren....heh.  don't you have to shutdown() a socket?
[22:49:29] <mohadib> Geren: do you know the client is actully reading
[22:49:31] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: That's why you shouldn't use OutputStreams for writing chars.
[22:49:37] <Geren> ok hmm
[22:49:38] <mohadib> Geren: did you try adding some println debug?
[22:49:39] <Geren> printStream?
[22:49:48] <ricky_clarkson> "Try writing bytes with streams, and chars with Writers."
[22:49:54] <Geren> ok
[22:50:03] <mohadib> not that it matters that much
[22:50:10] <mohadib> it really matters when you are reading
[22:50:18] <cHaoTiCa> PrintStream being an exception :)
[22:50:31] <Geren> what do u mean "when" i'm reading?
[22:50:32] <ricky_clarkson> Does PrintStream let you specify an encoding?
[22:50:36] <mohadib> if you write bytes it dones matter
[22:50:39] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: when=at the time
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[22:50:43] <mohadib> everything can be expressed as bytes
[22:50:48] <Geren> for the client?
[22:50:49] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell Geren about aolbonics
[22:50:49] <javabot> Geren, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
[22:50:51] <cHaoTiCa> i believe so.  could be wrong, though
[22:51:07] <Geren> i mean here's the client prog: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8382
[22:51:08] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Yes, at the client.
[22:51:15] <Geren> here's the server prog: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8385
[22:51:23] <Geren> i honestly dun see what is wrong with both
[22:51:39] <cHaoTiCa> PrintStream(OutputStream out, boolean autoFlush, String encoding)
[22:51:39] <cHaoTiCa>           Create a new print stream.
[22:51:44] <pr3d4t0r> ~whois gen
[22:51:45] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: So you've got one socket.  Both processes are writing to it, and you expect WHAT?!
[22:51:45] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'genericity in java 1.4' might be appropriate:
[22:51:47] <javabot> pr3d4t0r, genericity in java 1.4 is The 1.4 jvm does not support genericity and the 1.5 javac does not produce 1.4-compatible bytecode from sources using genericity. However, there is an undocumented "-target jsr14" flag which combined with "-source 1.5" does what you need. Hopefully.
[22:52:03] <Geren> ricky_clarkson, huh?
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[22:52:10] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: So you've got one socket.  Both processes are writing to it, and you expect WHAT?!
[22:52:38] <Geren> the server is writing to the client and the client is writing to the server!
[22:52:47] <cHaoTiCa> bbl rebooting and pretending to work til i go home :)
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[22:52:59] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Yes.  So why would anything appear on the screen?
[22:53:37] <Geren> ok how would i correct it?
[22:53:49] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: First you need to recognise the error.
[22:53:50] <Geren> i mean the socket creation mechacnisms are taken from my book
[22:53:52] <mohadib> by reading the io trail first ;)
[22:53:59] <Geren> ricky_clarkson, can you help me recognize the error?
[22:54:02] <Geren> is it in the socket creation?
[22:54:04] <Geren> or is it in the strreams?
[22:54:06] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Where in that code do you see anything that will print anything to the screen?
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[22:54:24] <Geren> output.writeBytes("Welcome!");
[22:54:48] <ricky_clarkson> That writes it to the socket.
[22:55:02] <Geren> yes?
[22:55:12] <ricky_clarkson> How does it get to the screen?
[22:55:15] <Geren> oh i think i know what's wrong
[22:55:18] <Geren> let me fix it and ask u later
[22:55:31] <ricky_clarkson> Tell us what you're thinking.
[22:55:35] <pr3d4t0r> Geren: Stop it.
[22:55:41] <pr3d4t0r> Geren: You're hurting my eyeballs.
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[22:56:08] <cheeser> pizza!
[22:56:15] <pr3d4t0r> LOL
[22:56:19] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: cheeser++
[22:56:20] <javabot> cheeser has a karma level of 145, pr3d4t0r
[22:56:29] <cheeser> i'm so hongreeeee!
[22:56:36] <ricky_clarkson> were kn i get vb.not on toast?
[22:56:40] <papaJohn> can someone suggest a component for tomcat that handles upload/downloads
[22:56:59] <Geren> ricky_clarkson, i need an inputstream to display what was input from the other side?
[22:57:09] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Yep.
[22:57:33] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Your client was shouting at your server and your server at your client, but neither were <b>listening</b>.
[22:57:41] <cheeser> papaJohn: struts/jakarta has a file upload component
[22:58:53] <papaJohn> cheeser thanks
[22:58:57] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Oh, and pr3d4t0r will probably remove you if you continue using aolbonics, so be careful.
[22:59:40] <Geren> whatsw aolbonics
[22:59:42] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: You might need to trade some of that karma in for food.
[22:59:56] <cheeser> i wish i could....
[22:59:56] <pr3d4t0r> ~tell Geren about aolbonics
[22:59:57] <javabot> Geren, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
[23:00:01] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: spkn lyk this n sayin 'u' instd of 'you'.
[23:00:01] <cheeser> pizza *does* sound good.
[23:00:05] <pr3d4t0r> Geren: It's "you", not "u".
[23:00:11] <cheeser> javabot: u
[23:00:12] <javabot> cheeser, u is Dutch for "you" or an aolbonic meaning "I am stupid".
[23:00:27] <cheeser> i didn't write that but I kinda wish I had.
[23:00:28] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: Kinda the same, huh? ;)
[23:00:28] <cheeser> 8^)=
[23:00:35] <ricky_clarkson> I wrote it.
[23:00:40] <cheeser> ah.  good job.
[23:00:41] <cheeser> 8^)=
[23:00:43] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Don't let Bevin hear you.
[23:00:53] <ricky_clarkson> He's not Dutch.
[23:00:58] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Yes, he is.
[23:01:05] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Ask him.
[23:01:10] <cheeser> javabot: dutch
[23:01:11] <javabot> cheeser, I have no idea what dutch is.
[23:01:13] <cheeser> bah!
[23:01:17] <cheeser> javabot: intolerance
[23:01:17] <javabot> There are two things I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch.
[23:01:36] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: dutch is a sucky movie with Al Bundy and some spastic kid trying to bond as father and son.
[23:01:39] <javabot> Okay, pr3d4t0r.
[23:02:06] <mohadib> hmm
[23:02:10] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: He's Belgian.
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[23:02:56] <ricky_clarkson> He speaks Flemish, which is like saying the Irish speak English.  It's spelled the same as Dutch, but pronounced differently.
[23:03:21] <Geren> ok i modified both of my progs
[23:03:22] <Geren> yet
[23:03:23] <Geren> yet
[23:03:27] <Geren> it still does not work, sigh
[23:03:44] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Follow the io tutorial.
[23:03:53] <Geren> i did
[23:03:57] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: I bet you made both of them read, and none write. ;)
[23:04:04] <Geren> no , let me show u
[23:04:09] <Geren> client: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8386
[23:04:11] <ricky_clarkson> How does it fail?
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[23:04:30] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: No, he's Dutch.  Ask him.
[23:04:39] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: We had this conversation last week.
[23:04:52] <ricky_clarkson> Bevin: Are you Dutch or Flemish or Belgian or ... French?
[23:04:52] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: He's Belgian like I'm USian.
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[23:05:03] *** cheeser sets mode: -b %Geren!*@*
[23:05:10] <Bevin> ricky_clarkson: Belgian
[23:05:21] <pr3d4t0r> Bevin: ...
[23:05:23] <Geren> anyone?
[23:05:32] <pr3d4t0r> Bevin: You told me last week that you were Dutch :(
[23:05:42] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: I said don't use BufferedReader.
[23:05:47] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Do you actually listen.
[23:05:48] <Twiun> pr3d4t0r: he's always been Belgian
[23:05:48] <Geren> ricky_clarkson, whatr the heck
[23:05:51] <ricky_clarkson> ?
[23:05:53] <Bevin> pr3d4t0r: my father is
[23:05:54] <Geren> so what should i use?
[23:06:01] <Bevin> pr3d4t0r: I was until 18
[23:06:15] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: InputStreamReader.
[23:06:16] <pr3d4t0r> Bevin: Ah.
[23:06:44] <Bevin> pr3d4t0r: I can't for the life of me export my Keynote presentation to Quicktime ... it always fails :-(
[23:06:50] <ricky_clarkson> Bevin: Did you come of age? ;)
[23:07:04] <pr3d4t0r> Bevin: give the URL again in the private universe; I'll give it ashot here.
[23:07:06] <ricky_clarkson> Is that what happens, Dutch people grow up and become Belgian?
[23:07:20] <Bevin> ricky_clarkson: at the age of 18 I got to chose my nationality, Belgian or Dutch
[23:07:20] <Geren> what's wrong with bufferedstreamreader
[23:07:32] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: It doesn't exist.
[23:07:36] <Geren> it does,
[23:07:39] <Geren> i mean it compiled
[23:07:48] <Bevin> pr3d4t0r: what kind of machine do you have there?
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[23:07:57] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: BufferedReader will cause you more hangs - only use it once you've got other stuff working.
[23:08:00] <pr3d4t0r> Bevin: G5.
[23:08:06] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: BufferedStreamReader doesn't exist.
[23:08:20] <Bevin> pr3d4t0r: cool
[23:08:49] <Geren> but inputstreamreader only reads a character
[23:08:51] <Geren> it cannot read a line
[23:09:08] <pr3d4t0r> Bevin: HTTPS?
[23:09:10] <ricky_clarkson> It can read multiple characters.
[23:09:23] <Bevin> pr3d4t0r: java.net thing, can't do much about that
[23:09:41] <Geren> how about just inputstream, instead of inputstreamrader?
[23:09:56] <Geren> i mean datainputstream
[23:09:58] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Do you want to read chars or bytes?
[23:10:03] <cheeser> java.net is supposed moving to svn soon.
[23:10:08] <Geren> i want to read strings and print out strings!!!
[23:10:17] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: If you want chars use readers.
[23:10:22] <ricky_clarkson> Strings are chars.
[23:10:22] <pr3d4t0r> Bevin: It's not working.
[23:10:51] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Geren about io
[23:10:51] <javabot> Geren, io is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/essential/io
[23:10:54] <ricky_clarkson> Look closer.
[23:10:57] <PSquad32> java.net is lame
[23:11:01] <pr3d4t0r> Bevin: It's not working.  302 -- file not found.
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[23:11:08] <PSquad32> they'll move to SVN sometime in the next year at best
[23:11:25] <PSquad32> those guys are ridiculous
[23:11:41] <cowbud> what are some terms I should search for to find out how in java I can do something like /<text>(.*)</text>/ and () is stored in a variable?
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[23:12:05] <mohadib> ~tell cowbud about javadoc pattern
[23:12:06] <javabot> cowbud, please see java.util.regex.Pattern: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/regex/Pattern.html
[23:12:23] <pr3d4t0r> Bevin: <p>The document has moved <a href="https://rife.dev.java.net/servlets/ProjectDocumentDownload?documentID=22571">here</a>.</p>
[23:12:27] <mohadib> cowbud: btw your using a greedy regex
[23:12:30] <ernimril> cowbud: you do not want to do xml/html scraping with regexps
[23:12:36] <Geren> ok i chaned it ot inputstreamreader
[23:12:39] <Drone> That URL gave the following error: java.net.ProtocolException, Server redirected too many  times (20)
[23:12:40] <Geren> but it STILL does not work
[23:12:51] <Geren> server: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8388
[23:12:51] <mohadib> ~doesnt work
[23:12:52] <javabot> mohadib, 'doesn't work' is not very helpful.  What does it do, sit around on IRC all day?
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[23:14:49] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: I like the way you only give us one side.
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[23:15:57] <Geren> hold on
[23:16:03] <Geren> ok client: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8390
[23:16:20] <PSquad32> Bevin: Geert?
[23:16:30] <Bevin> PSquad32: yup
[23:16:38] <PSquad32> <--- Lightbdoy
[23:16:40] <PSquad32> ack
[23:16:43] <PSquad32> Lightbody :)
[23:16:48] <Bevin> PSquad32: sec
[23:16:55] <PSquad32> just saying Hi
[23:17:00] <Geren> now it wont even connect, it says connection refused when running the client
[23:17:01] <cowbud> ernimril: how should I do xml scraping then?
[23:17:01] <cheeser> PSquad32: you're patrick lightbody?
[23:17:09] <PSquad32> in the flesh. sort of.
[23:17:15] <cheeser> nice.  welcome.
[23:17:15] <mohadib> cowbud: use jaxp
[23:17:20] <ernimril> cowbud: use a xml parser, either sax or dom...
[23:17:28] <mohadib> ~tell cowbud about jaxp
[23:17:28] <javabot> cowbud, jaxp is Java API for XML Processing at http://java.sun.com/xml/jaxp/  A tutorial for 1.1 can be found http://java.sun.com/xml/jaxp/dist/1.1/docs/tutorial/ (Note: J2SE 5.0 uses JAXP 1.3 )
[23:18:15] <Geren> ok actually it works now
[23:18:21] <Geren> but instead of pritning strings, it prints 87 and 73
[23:18:22] <cowbud> alright thanks for the tips
[23:18:49] <Amnesiac> hey cheeser, mohadib
[23:19:17] <mohadib> howdy Amnesiac
[23:19:33] <cheeser> hey Amnesiac
[23:19:36] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: What does InputStreamReader.read() say it returns in the docs?
[23:19:49] <Geren> a char
[23:19:50] <ricky_clarkson> ~javadoc InputStreamReader.read()
[23:19:50] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, please see java.io.InputStreamReader.read(): http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/io/InputStreamReader.html#read()
[23:20:15] <ricky_clarkson> Nope.
[23:20:18] <ricky_clarkson> Try again.
[23:20:51] <Bevin> PSquad32: hey :-)
[23:21:08] <Geren> returns: The character read, or -1 if the end of the stream has been reached
[23:21:15] <Bevin> PSquad32: sorry, was on the phone with my gf, trying her to export a keynote presentation for me since my powerbook is just lame, doesn't want to do it
[23:21:22] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: What type?
[23:21:27] <Bevin> PSquad32: I had dinner with Torsten tonight!
[23:21:39] <Geren> int
[23:21:45] <PSquad32> Torsten -- Torsten... remind me :)
[23:21:46] <Geren> so u r telling me i have to convert everytime!?!??!
[23:21:53] <Geren> why is it so complex???
[23:21:59] <Geren> is there a quicker way around it?
[23:22:01] <Uvizor> Casting isn't that hard.
[23:22:11] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: There are other methods besides read() in that class.
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[23:22:29] <Bevin> pr3d4t0r: javaflow
[23:22:31] <Bevin> oops
[23:22:34] <Bevin> PSquad32: javaflow
[23:22:39] <Bevin> PSquad32: the apache continuations lib
[23:22:41] <PSquad32> oh, the "other" continuation project
[23:22:42] <Geren> ricky_clarkson, yes butr everything returns int
[23:22:42] <PSquad32> yeah
[23:22:50] <PSquad32> any chance to consolidate?
[23:22:54] <Bevin> PSquad32: we'll be seeing about combining the efforts yeah
[23:23:03] <PSquad32> great
[23:23:09] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Read harder.
[23:23:15] <PSquad32> though, i haven't been happy with his efforts on commons-jci
[23:23:23] <Bevin> PSquad32: but they have a complete codebase that builds on bcel
[23:23:26] <PSquad32> i ended up copying the entire code in to webwork, since he never put in my patches
[23:23:32] <r3tex> what is the advantage of making an object PrintWriter() intead of using System.out all the time?
[23:23:33] <Amnesiac> mohadib, fine thanks :) at work, I'm just eating :P
[23:23:34] <Twiun> ricky_clarkson: maybe he should scrape his corneas on the screen?
[23:23:34] <PSquad32> doesn't bcel suck though?
[23:23:41] <Bevin> PSquad32: yeah :-(
[23:23:50] <Bevin> PSquad32: but Torsten is thinking about moving to asm
[23:23:55] <Bevin> PSquad32: since bcel has so much probs
[23:24:00] <Geren> can i do system.out.print(char(output.read()));
[23:24:03] <PSquad32> good
[23:24:10] <Bevin> PSquad32: so that might be a good occasion to maybe use a lot of RIFE's code
[23:24:10] <PSquad32> at least he recognizes it :)
[23:24:28] <ricky_clarkson> r3tex: You could easily change which PrintStream (not PrintWriter) is used.
[23:24:35] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Geren about casting
[23:24:35] <javabot> Geren, casting is a way of changing the type of a reference (it NEVER changes an object), or converting between different primitive types.  (Type)expression casts the result of expression to Type.
[23:24:45] <Geren> ricky_clarkson, yes thats what i did
[23:24:48] <Geren> char(output.read()))
[23:24:50] <Geren> char(output.read())
[23:24:51] <ricky_clarkson> Nope.
[23:25:02] <Cow_woC> Bevin: the problem with ASM is that it is a crap ass API around the visitor pattern
[23:25:02] <Uvizor> (chat) intType...
[23:25:05] <Bevin> PSquad32: yeah, he was very sad about the state of bcel
[23:25:11] <ricky_clarkson> ~rfd Geren
[23:25:12] <javabot> Geren, you might want to read this book: http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/cwalerst/reading%20for%20dummies.gif
[23:25:15] <Bevin> Cow_woC: it works wonderfully well
[23:25:21] <mohadib> Cow_woC: what is ASm?
[23:25:22] <Cow_woC> Bevin: the major problem being that the visitor problems is totally inappropriate for building or reading up class files
[23:25:25] <mohadib> assembly?
[23:25:29] <Geren> very very confused
[23:25:31] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: Haha.
[23:25:32] <Cow_woC> mohadib: it's a bytecode generator lib
[23:25:38] <mohadib> ty
[23:25:48] <Bevin> Cow_woC: no it's not
[23:25:49] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Read harder.
[23:25:57] <Bevin> Cow_woC: I use it very successfully
[23:26:05] <Bevin> Cow_woC: you just have to think about it differently
[23:26:12] <Cow_woC> Bevin: and that's the problem
[23:26:17] <Cow_woC> Bevin: it's not intuitive
[23:26:21] <Bevin> Cow_woC: ok
[23:26:41] <Cow_woC> You shouldn't *have* to be forced into the visitor pattern. There is absolutely no good reason for it.
[23:26:50] <r3tex> ricky_clarkson: ok, but is PrintWriter pw = new PrintWriter(System.out, true); good for anything?
[23:26:52] <Cow_woC> that's my only complaint :(
[23:27:04] <r3tex> ricky_clarkson: besides giving it a cool name
[23:27:05] <Bevin> Cow_woC: performance and memory footprint are very good reasons
[23:27:15] <Bevin> PSquad32: torsten is a great guy though
[23:27:22] <ricky_clarkson> r3tex: Not afaik.
[23:27:26] <Bevin> PSquad32: so I'll really try to make this happen
[23:27:30] <PSquad32> great
[23:27:37] <Cow_woC> Bevin: speaking of which... let me know if you're interested in helping port JACE from a proprietary bytecode generator to ASM :) I'd love to get some help
[23:27:46] <Geren> ok i was successful in getting one character displayed
[23:27:52] <Geren> but i want to display a line
[23:27:56] <Bevin> Cow_woC: in another lifetime :-p
[23:28:02] <Geren> can i achieve the same purpose as readLine ?
[23:28:03] <PSquad32> i just wish he reached out to people more. it seems like commons-jci (and his other projects, including cocoon) are totally disconnected from the rest of the world. it's great to see you reaching out to him
[23:28:19] <Bevin> PSquad32: yeah, I didn't even know they were working on it
[23:28:37] <Bevin> PSquad32: even though we started discussions about continuations libs a year ago on a codehaus mailinglist
[23:29:17] <PSquad32> yeah, i remember seeing that
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[23:29:30] <PSquad32> classic example of the java community doing a terrible job working with other folks :P
[23:29:58] <PSquad32> i see the community really wanting to change that though
[23:30:05] <PSquad32> lots of efforts going on to work together
[23:30:06] <Bevin> PSquad32: yeah
[23:30:16] <Bevin> PSquad32: are you in the yahoo group that Kito set up?
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[23:30:46] <PSquad32> yeah. honestly, i think that group is too wide open and won't really make much progress. but we're chugging along with Clarity, which works well being just a handful of people right now.
[23:30:54] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Now that you've got something working, you could go back to BufferedReader if you like, but if you get hangs, you'll know why.
[23:30:58] <r3tex> ricky_clarkson: could it be that since it is character based it's better for other languages?
[23:31:07] <PSquad32> but the open dialog is good, so i'm not opposed to the list. i just don't expect actionable tasks to come from it.
[23:31:08] <Geren> ricky_clarkson, ok i am going back to buffered, and why would it hang?
[23:31:38] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: BufferedReader fills a buffer (if it can).  Therefore it reads loads from the stream, which can block.
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[23:31:44] <Geren> ok it seems that when i run MyServer first, then run MyClient, nothing happens. But if i terminate MyServer, then "Welcome" displays on MyClient
[23:32:10] <ricky_clarkson> Probably the server isn't closing stuff properly.
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[23:32:40] <cybereal> Socket buffering drives me mad
[23:32:54] <ricky_clarkson> ~reading is <reply>http://www.ddat.co.uk/Tests/contactdetails.aspx?test=adhd
[23:32:55] <javabot> I already have a factoid with that name, ricky_clarkson
[23:33:04] <cybereal> Geren: You're getting it because the server is closing the socket and that flushes it
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[23:33:34] <Geren> cybereal, but i didnt have a close() socket statement in my server?
[23:33:43] <cybereal> Geren: It's closed when the object is gc'd
[23:33:52] <Geren> ok
[23:33:55] <Geren> so what should i do to fix it
[23:34:22] <cybereal> Geren: I don't know... try calling .flush() manually?  Maybe there is a way to change buffering behavior?  I've never really mastered the socket buffer in an explicit way.
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[23:34:43] <cybereal> and I haven't dealt with it in so long I can't remember how I got around short message buffering issues before
[23:34:48] <cybereal> probably some SO_* flag
[23:34:54] <Geren> ok here's my client prog: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8392
[23:35:03] <Geren> here's my server prog: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8391
[23:35:14] <Geren> i incorporated bufferedreader and i did flush and close
[23:36:14] <cybereal> Geren: on the srver put the .flush() before the call to input.readLine() maybe?
[23:36:17] <EasterSunshine> hello all, i am reading an orielly book to learn java, unfortunaelty it is pretty old, from 1997, so it covers java 1.1. afaik, the current version is 1.5, is there a significant difference between the versions? is it ok for me to learn off a book based on java 1.1?
[23:36:49] <cybereal> EasterSunshine: totally new world
[23:36:56] <Geren> ok i removed the flush and close from both prorams, and it works!@!! isnt that a miracle?!?!
[23:36:58] <cybereal> EasterSunshine: throw that old book away and get something updated
[23:37:04] <Bevin> PSquad32: I don't think that there will be much coming out of it either
[23:37:16] <cybereal> Geren: hah strange... but that is the nature of sockets, strange, especially if you involved a windows computer!
[23:37:19] <Bevin> PSquad32: I do like the idea about education I had on there though
[23:37:44] <EasterSunshine> cybereal: the verisons are a bit confusing to me...java 1.4 is 1.4, but java 1.5 is java 5.0?
[23:38:11] <cybereal> EasterSunshine: yeah sun in their infinite wisdom decided to call Java 1.5 5.0 too... it doesn't make sense to me but at least it's easy to remember
[23:38:27] <cybereal> EasterSunshine: almost everybody knows it by 1.5, particularly developers
[23:38:39] <cybereal> EasterSunshine: I think 5.0 is just for the marketing department's sake
[23:38:43] <PSquad32> Bevin: i joined a bit late, so i might have missed that. i'll check it out
[23:39:01] <EasterSunshine> cybereal: but then, what is java 2, as in j2se?
[23:39:08] <Geren> ok another question
[23:39:19] <cybereal> EasterSunshine: It's everything version 1.2 and newer
[23:39:21] <Bevin> PSquad32: basically I say why I think that ideas like Wafer aren't much use
[23:39:29] <Geren> when i do readLine(), it ignores the \n, how can i let it include
[23:39:30] <EasterSunshine> cybereal: ok got it thx
[23:39:31] <cybereal> EasterSunshine: where the last really big changes/additions occurred
[23:39:32] <Geren> \n as well?
[23:39:37] <Bevin> PSquad32: and have some suggestions on what might be useful
[23:39:44] <cybereal> EasterSunshine: which is why a book that only covers 1.1 needs to be replaced heh
[23:39:57] <ernimril> Geren: you can not.
[23:40:07] <cybereal> EasterSunshine: Though I should point out that 1.1 code still compiles and runs
[23:40:08] <Geren> if there's no way to show breaks?
[23:40:30] <cybereal> Geren: readLine() reads until a newline or EOF
[23:40:31] <Bevin> PSquad32: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/java_web_alignment/message/20
[23:40:37] <cybereal> Geren: so you can assume, if it wasn't EOF, that there was a newline
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[23:41:08] <KimHansen> Hi. How can I use a "local jar" in a maven project, I would like it to stay in the project build directory ?
[23:41:32] <Geren> ok
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[23:46:15] <ricky_clarkson> Geren: Here's howq I do it: http://lavender.cime.net/~ricky/netsim/pi/assignment/
[23:46:29] <Lars_G> I've com back.
[23:46:32] <Lars_G> Rejoice.
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[23:46:58] <pr3d4t0r>  /kick Lars_G
[23:47:16] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: It's already cliche, you know.
[23:47:21] * ricky_clarkson goes to the convenience shop to get some paracetamol, and the kebab shop for some grub.
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[23:48:17] <Aradorn> kebab shop?
[23:48:19] <Aradorn> wtf?
[23:48:33] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Trouble is your self dignity whitholds you from taking other more comical routes.
[23:48:45] <Lars_G> Aradorn: ... a shop where kebabs are sold... what's so strange about it?
[23:49:01] <littlezoper> kebab is some sort of sandwich
[23:49:01] <Aradorn> never seen a shop that sells kabob
[23:49:07] <Aradorn> i thought it was meat on a stick
[23:49:14] <cheeser> it is
[23:49:14] <Aradorn> with vegies
[23:49:14] <littlezoper> Aradorn: k*e*bab...not k*a*bob
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[23:49:28] <Aradorn> hrm weird
[23:49:37] <Aradorn> wierd rather
[23:49:37] <cybereal> Aradorn: never seen a shop that sells kabobs? You, my friend, need to get out more!
[23:49:47] <cybereal> And yeah, kebob != kabab
[23:49:49] <cybereal> er kabob
[23:49:54] <cybereal> stupid words all of 'em!
[23:49:59] <Aradorn> lol i agree
[23:50:03] <Aradorn> i live in the south
[23:50:07] <Aradorn> we dont have stuff like that around here =)
[23:50:13] <Lars_G> it's cooked on a stick, but cut and sold in a sandwich made with pita bread
[23:50:19] <cybereal> Aradorn: I want jambalaya
[23:50:20] <vinse> k, bob
[23:50:38] <Aradorn> heh gotta head west of me for that
[23:50:52] <Lars_G> Here we even have kebab carts in the street, just like a hotdog cart but sells kebabs
[23:51:01] <Aradorn> where is that?
[23:51:02] * cybereal loves the Jambalaya with crawfish at a local bar/club/whatever you wanna call it
[23:51:03] <vinse> where are you Lars_G?
[23:51:10] <Lars_G> vinse: Venezuela
[23:51:19] <Aradorn> ahh
[23:51:43] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: dood.
[23:51:51] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Seems to be a problem with the pdf version of the j2me talk
[23:51:52] <littlezoper> Aradorn: you've never heard of kebabs?  sheesh!
[23:51:54] <littlezoper> ;)
[23:51:57] <Aradorn> nope
[23:52:08] <littlezoper> sheesh...kebab.... :P
[23:52:08] <Aradorn> im a deprived person
[23:52:10] <vinse> there's a sandwich place by me that has a something they call "the soprano"
[23:52:13] <Aradorn> ive only been to 3 states
[23:52:14] <Aradorn> =(
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[23:52:20] <Lars_G> What we don't have anymore, is a good hindu restaurant. Sigh
[23:52:21] <vinse> i've eaten it every day for the best couple of weeks
[23:52:23] <Aradorn> Colorado, GA (where i live) and Florida
[23:52:29] <cheeser> yay CO!
[23:52:36] <cybereal> littlezoper: wah wah wah! bad joke
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[23:52:46] <vinse> where in GA?
[23:52:50] <Aradorn> Valdosta
[23:52:52] <littlezoper> Aradorn: i hadn't heard of them either until a few months ago.  i was trying to make a sly joke with sheesh and kebab, but I guess you missed it :)
[23:52:55] <vinse> i'm sure you can get indian food in the ATL
[23:52:55] <littlezoper> cybereal: there we go! :)
[23:53:05] <mohadib> cheeser: has it snowed there yet?
[23:53:14] <vinse> or Athens
[23:53:24] <vinse> college towns have that kind of shit usually
[23:53:26] <Aradorn> yeah if i wanted to drive 4 to 5 hours =p
[23:53:27] <cheeser> mohadib: yep
[23:53:29] <vinse> hehe
[23:53:34] <mohadib> cheeser: wow
[23:53:39] <cheeser> 'twas nice.
[23:53:39] <Lars_G> vinse: atl?
[23:53:44] <vinse> atlanta
[23:53:45] <Aradorn> it snowed in Denver like 2 weeks ago didnt it?
[23:53:46] <mohadib> cheeser: pretty early this year
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[23:54:01] <littlezoper> snow skiing++
[23:54:04] <Aradorn> CO is very pretty
[23:54:06] <Lars_G> vinse: It's a little far to travel for indian food..
[23:54:12] <vinse> Lars_G: but if you're hip like Outkast you call it The ATL
[23:54:20] <mohadib> vinse: lol
[23:54:22] <vinse> and yourself an ATLien
[23:54:23] <mohadib> i was wondering
[23:54:24] <Aradorn> vinse: haha
[23:54:36] <Aradorn> anyone north of Macon is a Yankee
[23:54:48] <Lars_G> I miss good indian food.
[23:54:48] <mohadib> vinse: how old are you? lol ,you been listening to your kids cds again
[23:54:58] <vinse> Aradorn: or west of phoenix, az
[23:55:00] <Aradorn> we have a really good indian place here though
[23:55:05] <vinse> (you can have new mexico)
[23:55:06] <Aradorn> lol
[23:57:44] <Aradorn> man the GA department of Labor has a QA job open starting at 63k a year
[23:57:55] <Aradorn> and only requires a GED or HS diploma
[23:58:00] <Aradorn> with 2 year experience
[23:58:05] *** Wufei|School is now known as Chang_Wufei
[23:58:11] <littlezoper> sounds like they need QA for their QA...
[23:58:14] <Aradorn> lol
[23:59:15] <vinse> mohadib: i'm older than you, but i've been listening to outkast for like 12 years or something!
[23:59:24] <vinse> however long they've been around
[23:59:47] <vinse> i'm hip and stuff
[23:59:50] <vinse> (not really though)

   October 17, 2005  
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