[00:00:32] <d03boy> oh wait, LinkedList i think acts as a doubly linked list
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[00:00:44] <wherisat> yes it does
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[00:03:04] <Storkme> mass suicide at my house, be there or be un-dead
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[00:19:47] <sil> why does SAX suck?
[00:19:56] <cheeser> who says it does?
[00:20:01] <sil> me
[00:20:16] <cheeser> it's your opinion, then.  you should know.
[00:20:31] <sil> yeah, but i didn't write it
[00:20:42] <cheeser> ok.
[00:21:20] <bpalmer> who did write it?
[00:22:15] <sil> i don't know
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[00:23:00] <cheeser> i feel myself getting dumber as this conversation drags on.
[00:24:21] <sil> that sucks
[00:24:34] <pchapman> LOL
[00:24:42] <doc|home> lol
[00:26:12] <Kallistor> :p
[00:27:39] <b14ck> Hey.. I've got a slight problem. I have a method whose header looks something like: public StringBuilder getdata() { ... } /* but the compiler says: cannot resolve symbol - class StringBuilder */
[00:28:13] <b14ck> And I don't know what I've done wrong.
[00:28:17] <ernimril> b14ck: compile with a java/5 compiler
[00:28:27] <b14ck> I'm using bluej's compiler.
[00:28:36] <b14ck> (*nix)
[00:28:42] <ernimril> what compiler is that?
[00:28:46] <b14ck> I'm not sure.
[00:28:55] <cheeser> so get a java 1.5 compiler
[00:28:58] <ernimril> why are you not using suns javac?
[00:29:27] <b14ck> I believe that bluej is using a java1.5 compiler...
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[00:29:38] <cybereal> b14ck: apparently not
[00:29:40] <b14ck> Or actually.
[00:29:41] <b14ck> You know what.
[00:29:50] <ernimril> b14ck: stop using an ide until you know the basics
[00:29:51] * cheeser waits for it.
[00:29:52] <b14ck> java version "1.4.2-p7" <-- my java version
[00:29:55] <cheeser> tee hee hee
[00:29:59] <b14ck> SO I'm not even running java5.
[00:30:20] <cheeser> you should definitely just use an editor then.  screw bluej.
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[00:30:43] <b14ck> cheeser, I can just use vim/javac, but if I'm not running java5 would it matter?
[00:30:50] <cheeser> nope.
[00:30:56] <cheeser> but then you could upgrade to 1.5
[00:31:02] <b14ck> No, I can't.
[00:31:05] <cheeser> por que?
[00:31:07] <b14ck> There isn't a port for it =/
[00:31:14] * cheeser blinks.
[00:31:16] <b14ck> *yet*
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[00:31:17] <cheeser> you on BSD?
[00:31:19] <b14ck> Yes.
[00:31:22] <cheeser> ah
[00:31:22] <ernimril> port? FreeBSD?
[00:31:29] <b14ck> Yah, FreeBSD.
[00:31:32] <cheeser> then don't use 1.5 features.
[00:31:43] <b14ck> I didn't know it was a 1.5 feature =/
[00:31:45] <cybereal> b14ck: be sure to reference the 1.4.2 API docs instead of 1.5
[00:31:49] * cheeser nods sagely.
[00:31:53] <b14ck> =/
[00:31:53] <cheeser> javabot: api 1.4
[00:31:54] <javabot> cheeser, api 1.4 is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/index.html
[00:32:03] <ernimril> b14ck: why are you using FreeBSD to do java development?
[00:32:16] <b14ck> Because I refuse to use anything but BSD.
[00:32:28] <b14ck> I don't even own a non-BSD computer.
[00:32:31] <cybereal> I did java development on a freebsd shell at one point
[00:32:32] <ernimril> b14ck: ok, that is a silly rule...
[00:32:55] <cybereal> b14ck: if you don't support using anything but bsd, why not try getting an Apple computer? :)
[00:33:03] <cybereal> b14ck: or better yet, wtf are you doing with java?
[00:33:07] <b14ck> And actually, I only have one freebsd box. The rest are OpenBSD3.7
[00:33:18] <b14ck> I hate apple!
[00:33:21] <ernimril> b14ck: but I guess you can mail sun and ask them to port java to *BSD
[00:33:31] * cybereal reminds b14ck that an OS is just software, not a reglion
[00:33:32] <b14ck> No, there is a really good java bsd team as is.
[00:33:36] <cHaoTiCa> ~pastebin
[00:33:36] <javabot> Paste your code, preferably a test case, any errors, and any other relevant information into the pastebin and tell us the URL: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin
[00:33:59] <ernimril> b14ck: good java team? there is no java/5 for *BSD yet...
[00:34:06] <b14ck> They are working on it I'm sure :)
[00:34:10] <b14ck> java.freebsd.org I believe.
[00:34:25] <ernimril> b14ck: *BSD is good for lots of things, I like OpenBSD for firewalls but for java they suck
[00:34:39] <b14ck> I'm not using java on OpenBSD.
[00:34:41] <cybereal> I hate elitist bsd users
[00:34:51] <b14ck> I'm using it on FreeBSD.
[00:34:54] <cybereal> b14ck: are you an elitist bsd user?
[00:35:02] <ernimril> cybereal: ...hate clouds your judgement...
[00:35:04] <b14ck> Do I seem like one?
[00:35:16] <cheeser> can't you use the linux port under the compatibility mode?
[00:35:18] <cybereal> b14ck: so far, but I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt
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[00:35:24] <cheeser> wb Chang_Wufei
[00:35:42] <Chang_Wufei> Thanks.
[00:35:54] <ernimril> cheeser: java and linux compatibility does not seem to work well (havent tested myself, but I have a few sources)
[00:36:02] <cheeser> ah
[00:36:02] <b14ck> cybereal, how do you figure that at all? If anything you seem like an elitest. I came in asking about a problem, and you have chosen to argue against BSD for java developement without any regards to solving my problem.
[00:36:18] <cheeser> b14ck: well, to be fair, we already solved your problem.
[00:36:19] <b14ck> cheeser, I can always try that, haven't yet;.
[00:36:21] <cheeser> 8^)=
[00:36:22] <cybereal> b14ck: I'm not arguing against bsd, only for other platforms that have better java support
[00:36:29] <ernimril> b14ck: your problem is solved, do not use java/5 classes for java on *BSD
[00:36:53] <b14ck> Yes, i got that message when I was linked to the 1.4.2 docs.
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[00:38:26] <pchapman> cheeser++
[00:38:37] <pchapman> ~cheeser++
[00:38:38] <javabot> cheeser has a karma level of 143, pchapman
[00:38:38] <b14ck> A StringBuffer will do the same for me, thanks for the link :)
[00:38:43] <pchapman> Because he has the patience of Job.
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[00:42:54] <Calcifer> im trying this example from the java website about 'rmi activiation' but i can only get it to work locally while it shuold be running over the network (it refuses to obtain the _stub file)
[00:43:10] <Calcifer> is it even possible ?
[00:43:13] <alex_f> b14ck: there certainly is a port for 1.5...
[00:43:31] <Calcifer> the example i use is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/guide/rmi/activation/activation.3.html
[00:44:40] <cheeser> pchapman: hehe
[00:44:58] <b14ck> oO
[00:45:04] <b14ck> I found the java15 port.
[00:45:16] <b14ck> Surprisinly it wasn't included in the initial documentation from the project.
[00:45:32] <ernimril> b14ck: where and what is its status?
[00:45:49] <b14ck> /usr/ports/java/jdk15
[00:45:54] <b14ck> Status->working
[00:46:08] <alex_f> ernimril: it has 2 patchsets out and has worked fine for me for awhile now
[00:46:42] <ernimril> well the web page say that it is considered beta
[00:47:07] <ernimril> alex_f: 4.x or 5.x?
[00:47:44] <alex_f> ernimril: I'm tracking RELENG_6_0   (6.0RC1) - however I used it on 5.x as well
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[00:47:50] <Bevin> hi
[00:48:03] <ernimril> alex_f: interesting and good to hear..
[00:48:18] <alex_f> ernimril: I don't use it in a production server environment, however, so I can't comment on that stability - I just use it for my own personal projects
[00:48:53] <ernimril> alex_f: ok and since it is considered beta it probably has a few bugs, but then so does the jvm in general...
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[00:59:38] <cordor> so quiet today
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[01:46:47] <Livingstone> Do you know if its posible to load a nativelib .so or .dll from inside a .jar? because I see in the new suse swt-lib the .so comes inside a jar
[01:49:23] <cHaoTiCa> for a dll that wasn't made for jni, i imagine you'd need a loader built for that.  i could be wrong, though -- i never touch libs outside of java myself :)
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[01:50:15] <Livingstone> actually its a jni already done
[01:50:26] <Livingstone> .so are just the native parts of the jni
[01:50:59] <cHaoTiCa> then it probably wouldn't be much trouble :)
[01:51:27] <Livingstone> this guy have the same proble
[01:51:29] <Livingstone> http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=146362&tstart=120
[01:55:49] <cHaoTiCa> if System.load(url) doesn't work for you, you could use getResourceAsStream(...) to read the file from the jar and write it to some place like /tmp
[01:55:57] <cHaoTiCa> then load that file instead
[01:56:57] <cHaoTiCa> but it seems java should have some way of doing this without a hack :)
[02:01:29] <Livingstone> Is suposed to be a way if the standart distribution of swt in suse comes all packed in a .jar
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[02:02:03] <Livingstone> but a -Djava.library.path="/usr/share/java/swt-gtk-3.1.jar" its not enought at all
[02:03:54] <cHaoTiCa> do you need to call swt.init() or something?  seems a package that needs libs loaded would load them itself
[02:04:37] <Livingstone> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: no swt-pi-gtk-3138 in java.library.path
[02:05:11] <Livingstone> the load is in place, the problem is that java is not looking for the librarys inside the jars in java.library.path
[02:05:32] <Livingstone> if I put the .so in a normal dir and put the java.library.path to it , it works fine
[02:05:50] <cHaoTiCa> so....umm.....do that? :)
[02:06:12] <cybereal> cHaoTiCa: there are potential permissions issues doing that
[02:06:50] <cybereal> usually .so's need to be executable
[02:06:53] <cHaoTiCa> tere are potential permissions any way it's done.  you're talking about running native code.
[02:07:12] <cHaoTiCa> permissions problems too
[02:07:13] <cybereal> yeah so those libraries should be installed at "install" time
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[02:08:07] <cHaoTiCa> but my impression is that there's no "install" time for a jar
[02:08:13] <jmop> hey guys, is there any documentation on applet signing in firefox?
[02:08:18] <jmop> i have no idea how it works
[02:08:20] <fromvega> Hello!
[02:08:22] <Drone> View codex7's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8350
[02:08:42] <codex7> can some one advise on the error that Im getting
[02:08:48] <Livingstone> cHaoTiCa: cybereal actually Im trying to use the standart swt instalation from suse, theres no point on uncompressing it
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[02:09:16] <codex7> it is on line 71 from http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8350
[02:09:21] <cHaoTiCa> suse's bass ackwards anyway
[02:09:24] <codex7> I ment 31
[02:09:30] <cybereal> Livingstone: why is it in the jar then?
[02:09:38] <cybereal> Livingstone: try finding docs on how to use it, because obviously it's not normal
[02:09:42] <jmop> md5 that pass
[02:09:43] <Livingstone> cybereal: dont ask me, ask suse ;)
[02:09:44] <cHaoTiCa> i wouldn't be surprised if they shipped stuff in unusable form
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[02:10:05] <Livingstone> cHaoTiCa: actually i've submitted a bug
[02:10:12] <Livingstone> but still have no anwer
[02:10:16] <delvinj> hello
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[02:11:33] <codex7> Storkme any idea
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[02:11:55] * jmop needs help signing his applet, any experienced people feel free to msg me, i'm off to the coffee house.
[02:12:57] <cHaoTiCa> ~jarsigner
[02:12:57] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'antcore jarsigner' might be appropriate:
[02:12:59] <javabot> http://ant.apache.org/manual/CoreTasks/signjar.html
[02:13:13] <jmop> thanks chaotica, what progs you workin on
[02:13:21] <fromvega> Hello, my database server just accept connections from the localhost. With Java WebStart the connections made are from user IP right? So I'm not able to connect to my database directly with Web Start. Am I right?
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[02:13:48] <cHaoTiCa> atm, just doing developer support :)
[02:15:25] <cybereal> fromvega: yep
[02:18:33] <cHaoTiCa> can't web start apps connect to hosts besides the download host?
[02:18:40] <cybereal> no
[02:18:48] <fromvega> cybereal: could you suggest something that I can use to make such type of connection? Any gateway between JavaWebstart and my database? I could make a script to receive the queries and return the results, but is there anything better?
[02:18:54] <cybereal> not even with permissions
[02:19:03] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[02:19:07] <cybereal> fromvega: a firewall on the host that you downloaded the webstart app from
[02:19:10] <cHaoTiCa> that's rather stupid
[02:19:18] <cybereal> fromvega: just setup a portforward
[02:20:00] <codex7> can someone take a look at line 27 from this http://pastebin.com/394939 and advise
[02:20:02] <cHaoTiCa> what's the advantage of web start apps over console apps or applets?
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[02:20:55] <cHaoTiCa> s/console/local/
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[02:21:49] <fromvega> cybereal: my database only accepts connection from localhost.localdomain, if I use a portforward will it act like as the connection is being made by the localhost?
[02:22:39] <cybereal> fromvega: depends on the portforward
[02:22:49] <cHaoTiCa> not unless you have a forwarder capable of forwarding outbound requests
[02:23:05] <cHaoTiCa> iptables couold do it on linux
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[02:23:16] <cHaoTiCa> for other os's, i dunno :)
[02:23:39] <cHaoTiCa> fromvega.....what db?
[02:23:49] <shredstar> Only stupid people rely on tooltips. Who here uses tooltips?
[02:24:04] <cHaoTiCa> heh.  i do on occasion :)
[02:24:37] <cHaoTiCa> what now?  :)
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[02:24:50] <fromvega> MySQL. So would a interface script be better? I mean, I send the request to this script and it retrieves the results from the database and return it to the Webstart app?
[02:25:02] <cybereal> fromvega: probably
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[02:25:15] <cHaoTiCa> can java talk to unix sockets?
[02:25:47] <cHaoTiCa> cause mysql typically has one set up on the local fs
[02:25:53] <cybereal> no
[02:26:00] <shredstar> What does this mean?      /* (non-Javadoc) \n     * @see de.kupzog.ktable.KTableModel#isRowResizable()  \n */
[02:26:22] <fromvega> thanks! bye bye!
[02:26:26] <cHaoTiCa> means someone doesn't know how to write javadoc :)
[02:26:35] <cybereal> no
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[02:26:45] <shredstar> cHaoTiCa: hey, that's funny.
[02:27:07] <cHaoTiCa> i thought so too.  :)
[02:28:05] * cHaoTiCa is bored
[02:28:11] <cHaoTiCa> don't mind me too much :)
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[02:29:58] <d03boy> can anyone remind me if a declaration uses any memory?
[02:30:04] <d03boy> im thinking no..
[02:30:16] <cybereal> d03boy: huh?
[02:30:26] <cHaoTiCa> a declaration of what?
[02:30:38] <d03boy> an object
[02:31:06] <pchapman> cybereal, I think he's asking it "private Object foo;" takes up any memory before you assign it a value.
[02:31:07] <cHaoTiCa> declarations of variables usually grab a few bytes of stack space, i think
[02:31:12] <d03boy> pchapman, yes
[02:31:21] <pchapman> It probably takes up a small amount, but it wouldn't be much.
[02:31:24] <cHaoTiCa> or space in the class
[02:31:37] <cHaoTiCa> depending on where it's used
[02:31:39] <cybereal> obviously it has to take up memory
[02:32:02] <cHaoTiCa> doesn't _have_ to :)
[02:32:17] <cybereal> it is possible that an unused declaration could be removed at compile time but that might break reflection or something so it probably doesn't do that
[02:32:29] <cHaoTiCa> it's possible for such things to be purely language constructs til they're used
[02:32:58] <cybereal> cHaoTiCa: in the case of java, your "language construct" there is loaded into memory as part of a class definition
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[02:33:46] <cHaoTiCa> in an object, yeah.  but if it's private and unused, i'd expect it to not appear
[02:34:05] <cybereal> cHaoTiCa: private fields can be accessed through reflection
[02:34:40] <cHaoTiCa> to do it that way seems rather braindead anyway, though :)
[02:34:54] <cybereal> maybe, maybe not
[02:34:56] <cybereal> depends on what you're doing
[02:34:59] <cybereal> but that's beside the point
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[02:45:48] <Blues-Man> hi all
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[02:47:24] <cybereal> hi
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[02:53:03] <cHaoTiCa> bah.
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[02:58:34] <cybereal> bah?
[03:01:32] <cHaoTiCa> i'm coding up a gui
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[03:01:54] <cybereal> oh boy
[03:01:58] <cybereal> In Swing?
[03:02:03] <cHaoTiCa> and the JTextPane i'm using never wanted to give up any space
[03:02:05] <cHaoTiCa> yeah
[03:02:11] <cybereal> I hate Swing
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[03:02:19] <cHaoTiCa> so the splitter only ever went one way
[03:02:31] <cHaoTiCa> i'm starting to :)
[03:02:58] <cHaoTiCa> putting the text pane in a ScrollPane fixed the problem for now
[03:03:12] <cHaoTiCa> we'll see how crappy it looks with content in it :)
[03:03:16] <cybereal> probably a better idea anyway
[03:03:24] <cybereal> in case you want the pane to be smnall but still be able to get to all the text
[03:03:40] <jmop> does the bot, return the first result from google? during the '~' task
[03:03:50] <cybereal> no
[03:04:00] <cybereal> jmop: they are factoids in its database
[03:04:07] <cybereal> ~tell jmop about fire
[03:04:07] <javabot> jmop, fire is Light a fire for a man, heat him for one night; Light a man on fire, heat him for the rest of his life.
[03:04:15] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[03:04:42] <cybereal> jmop: it does a simple search too
[03:04:46] <jmop> because i did a search for signjar
[03:04:47] <cybereal> ~tell jmop about spoon
[03:04:48] <javabot> jmop, I guess the factoid 'spoonfeeding' might be appropriate:
[03:04:51] <javabot> jmop, Spoon-feed a newbie for a day and he will come back with more questions.  Teach him how to help himself and he will come back with answers.
[03:04:59] <jmop> you tink i'm spoonfed?
[03:05:05] <cybereal> jmop: it was an example
[03:06:45] <cHaoTiCa> jmop....look at sun's docs for jarsigner
[03:07:04] <cHaoTiCa> under "jdk tool and utility documentation"
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[03:08:42] <jmop> i was
[03:09:02] <cHaoTiCa> well, it's pretty plain about what it does :)
[03:09:56] <jmop> yea, i will have to read up more on it
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[03:10:27] <jmop> jar is a zip file, so i zip my classes up and do these commands on my jar file?
[03:11:06] <jmop> don't asnwer that
[03:11:28] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[03:12:25] <aless> hi, how do you do to make a .exe executable like azureus's?
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[03:12:53] <cHaoTiCa> an .exe should already be executable
[03:13:01] <cHaoTiCa> hence the .exe part :)
[03:13:34] <aless> i mean if i have my aplication in a jar how can i achieve that
[03:14:15] <cHaoTiCa> one way would be to compile to native code
[03:15:12] <cHaoTiCa> another would involve a wrapper program that extracts the jar from itself, stores it in a temp dir or something, and runs it
[03:15:37] <|^JaMeS^|> hrm
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[03:15:50] <cHaoTiCa> another would be to just run the .jar :)  windows can run .jar files directly, if it's set up to do so
[03:16:12] <jmop> create a bat file
[03:16:23] <cHaoTiCa> could do that too
[03:16:29] <Oleg_> help please!
[03:16:38] <cHaoTiCa> xut that involves having two files
[03:16:40] <jmop> dial 911 Oleg
[03:16:44] <cHaoTiCa> the bat and the jar
[03:16:50] <Oleg_> My Netscape browser loads java in this page correctly:
[03:17:00] <Oleg_> http://lane-davies.com/chat.shtml
[03:17:19] <Oleg_> but Konqueror can't load java and says:
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[03:17:42] <jmop> know of any good pizza review websites?
[03:17:44] <cHaoTiCa> sounds like a konqueror problem :)
[03:18:08] <cybereal> konq. connect to a jvm different than netscape
[03:18:12] <cybereal> it's probably not setup right
[03:18:17] <Oleg_> Error during state 1
[03:18:19] <Oleg_> Backtrace:
[03:18:19] <Oleg_> java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: Class: Client
[03:18:19] <Oleg_> 	at org.kde.kjas.server.KJASAppletClassLoader.findClass(KJASAppletClassLoader.java:244)
[03:18:19] <Oleg_> 	at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
[03:18:19] <Oleg_> 	at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
[03:18:22] <Oleg_> 	at org.kde.kjas.server.KJASAppletClassLoader.loadClass(KJASAppletClassLoader.java:254)
[03:18:23] <Oleg_> 	at org.kde.kjas.server.KJASAppletStub$RunThread.doState(KJASAppletStub.java:167)
[03:18:24] <Oleg_> 	at org.kde.kjas.server.KJASAppletStub$RunThread.run(KJASAppletStub.java:255)
[03:18:26] <Oleg_> sorry for flooding
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[03:18:36] <Oleg_> but there aren't too many lines here
[03:18:37] <cHaoTiCa> sure you are
[03:18:46] <cybereal> ~tell Oleg_ about topic
[03:18:46] <javabot> Oleg_, The topic has several references for your perusal. That's why Chanserv msgs you to read the topic.  Reading the topic and asking questions is a great way to get help.
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[03:20:09] <Oleg_> anybody here uses Konqueror?
[03:20:13] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[03:20:14] <cHaoTiCa> no
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[03:20:40] <jmop> does anybody use diaphrams
[03:20:46] <cHaoTiCa> i use ie, and on rare occasion ns7
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[03:30:54] <shredstar> jmop: for birth control?
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[03:36:59] <mohadib> is this right ->  red , yellow , and blue   or  red , yellow and blue  (notice the commas)
[03:37:14] <cHaoTiCa> for what?
[03:37:24] <mohadib> so i can communicate :)
[03:37:28] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[03:37:31] <mohadib> ?
[03:37:44] <mohadib> cHaoTiCa: do you know?
[03:37:45] <cHaoTiCa> either way....i prefer the former, though
[03:38:07] <mohadib> ty
[03:38:23] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: ping
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[03:43:28] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Pong.
[03:43:51] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: I'm leaving in two minutes, FYI.
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[03:47:22] * pr3d4t0r left until tomorrow.
[03:47:31] <pr3d4t0r> OKi -- good night.
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[03:54:22] <|^JaMeS^|> hrmz
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[04:05:24] * ramza3 puts ubuntu on a amd64/sata .... hopes it works
[04:08:01] * EasterSunshine doubts it.
[04:08:40] <ramza3> EasterSunshine, why do you say that
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[04:09:37] <ramza3> I wonder if there is 64bit java
[04:10:20] <ramza3> there is....ooo
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[04:12:06] <pchapman> ramza3, I use 64bit java on my AMD64 laptop.  Works fine except applets
[04:12:19] <ramza3> pchapman, good, I dont use craplets
[04:12:23] <pchapman> (Fedora Core 4)
[04:14:55] <Clackwell> fedora? holy cow, man, you're lucky java works on that at all :)
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[04:15:50] <pchapman> Clackwell, I've been using redhat/fedora so long, I can make it stand on its head.
[04:15:55] <pchapman> :-D
[04:16:14] <Clackwell> pchapman: excellent, fix the java plug-in issue then :)
[04:16:38] <EasterSunshine> ramza3: i've heard bad things about ubuntu on 64-bit, and i've had bad expereince with sata on every os i've tried
[04:16:58] <pchapman> it's not a fedora issue.  Sun doesn't include browser support in 64bit linux port.
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[04:17:07] <pchapman> You can run applets in the applet viewer though.
[04:17:19] <Clackwell> ~ridicule pchapman
[04:17:19] * javabot points at pchapman and laughs.
[04:17:24] <pchapman> Not that I care.  I don't use applets either.
[04:17:34] <pchapman> *shrug*
[04:18:28] <pchapman> I'm a good sport.  I can take ridicule from a very small java program.
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[04:31:07] <vman_____> is there anyway i can check wether a
[04:31:34] <vman_____> is there anyway i can check wether a DatagramSocket has a recieved packet stored in its buffer? or do i always have to do recieve and block until something comes in?
[04:32:17] <gumpish> javabot is, in fact, written in java?
[04:32:18] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'genericity in java 1.4' might be appropriate:
[04:32:20] <javabot> gumpish, genericity in java 1.4 is The 1.4 jvm does not support genericity and the 1.5 javac does not produce 1.4-compatible bytecode from sources using genericity. However, there is an undocumented "-target jsr14" flag which combined with "-source 1.5" does what you need. Hopefully.
[04:32:32] <gumpish> =/
[04:33:11] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[04:33:39] <vman_____> or possibly, is there anyway to just have recieve return without blocking?
[04:33:51] <vman_____> without doing setting the timeout to 1ms?
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[04:35:45] <shredstar> I'm looking to fine-tune my X - CloseTab button. I want it exactly at the same horizontal level as the tab labels, except located on the far right side of the component.
[04:36:33] <shredstar>   ... Exactly like the close-tab button on firefox.  All the examples i've seen aren't as clean as that.
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[04:41:49] <cHaoTiCa> shredstar....drawString() draws text so that the baseline (the line that would just touch the bottom of most characters) is at (*, y)
[04:45:42] <cHaoTiCa> you should be able to use a FontMetrics from the current font to get the ascent (the height of a character) and draw a button covering the rect from (x, y - ascent) to (x + ascent, y)
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[04:46:08] <cHaoTiCa> keep in mind i hate tabs and have never tried drawing a close button for one :)
[04:49:14] <shredstar> cHaoTiCa: What I want is something where the red-X is in this: http://img447.imageshack.us/my.php?image=x8cw.gif
[04:49:52] <cHaoTiCa> there?  or at the corner?
[04:50:19] <cHaoTiCa> cause the red x is in an ugly place right now :)
[04:50:39] <shredstar> Have you heard of the firefox browser?
[04:50:58] <cHaoTiCa> heard of it, yes.  use it, no.  :)
[04:51:16] <cHaoTiCa> i have used it before, but the ui was quite forgettable
[04:51:23] <cHaoTiCa> as i said, i hate tabs :)
[04:51:41] <shredstar> cHaoTiCa: So what is your question?
[04:52:10] <cHaoTiCa> is that the exact place where you want the button?
[04:53:44] <shredstar> Yes.
[04:54:44] <cHaoTiCa> hrm
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[04:55:40] <cHaoTiCa> it'll probably want to fight with the pane
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[05:01:20] <cHaoTiCa> i could think of a couple ways to do it...one would involve drawing the button yourself in paint(), but that's pretty ugly :)
[05:02:32] <cHaoTiCa> another would be to extend JTabbedPane to add the button
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[05:03:56] <cHaoTiCa> which might get annoying, depending on how it does its layout
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[05:18:08] <Erica> Hi!
[05:18:17] <Erica> what is wrong with this: private static FrameHeader       FH = new FrameHeader();
[05:18:18] <cHaoTiCa> hya :)
[05:18:31] <Erica> what is wrong with that statement?
[05:18:38] <cHaoTiCa> where is it?
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[05:18:47] <Erica> private static FrameHeader       FH = new FrameHeader();
[05:19:04] <Erica> class SomeClass { private static FrameHeader       FH = new FrameHeader(); }
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[05:19:28] <cHaoTiCa> does FrameHeader have an accessible constructor?
[05:19:39] <Erica> no default ctor
[05:20:01] <Erica> JPEGDecoder.java:46: non-static variable this cannot be referenced from a static
[05:20:01] <Erica>  context
[05:20:01] <Erica>     private static FrameHeader       FH = new FrameHeader();
[05:20:51] <cHaoTiCa> i don't see where that code refers to "this"
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[05:21:04] *** Erica was kicked by cheeser (for flooding you get a 2 minute ban to give you time to read the topic (/topic ##java))
[05:21:12] <cHaoTiCa> heh
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[05:24:14] <Uvizor> Why is it when an object is resurrected (i.e. a static object being assigned in finalize() {... staticVar = this;}), if it [staticVar] is set to null to become unreachable, why is it that GC never gets to call finalize() on it?
[05:24:48] <cheeser> Uvizor: you should never override finalize()
[05:25:33] <Uvizor> I know, I'm just trying to play around with garbage collector.
[05:26:02] <Uvizor> I'm just looking for a reason behind this scenario.
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[05:27:34] <Tauop> hi
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[05:29:46] <Tauop> I would like to know wether there is some preprocessing in java to bytecode compilation ?
[05:30:01] <cHaoTiCa> preprocessing?
[05:30:10] <Tauop> yes
[05:30:26] <Tauop> telling if some part of the code has to be compiled or not
[05:30:30] <cHaoTiCa> there aren't header files or macros etc, if that's what you mean
[05:30:35] <Tauop> like in C/C++ with #ifdef etc...
[05:30:44] <cHaoTiCa> nope
[05:30:45] <Tauop> what I want
[05:31:06] <Tauop> is t stop to put boolean "debug" and make if (debug) { ... } test for debug purpose
[05:32:09] <Tauop> so I don't want my debug code be compiled if the debug variable is false
[05:32:17] <Tauop> is set*
[05:32:26] <Tauop> cHaoTiCa, you see ?
[05:33:04] <cHaoTiCa> if you like, you could use #ifdef etc, and pass your code through a preprocessor (like *nix's "cpp") before trying to compile it
[05:33:31] <cheeser> Tauop: not as part of Java SE
[05:33:34] <Tauop> yes I see
[05:33:52] <Tauop> I can put in my Makefile some awk / sed / grep code
[05:34:18] <Tauop> Chalain, that you mean, right ?
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[05:34:35] <[GT]Kane> um time to isntall java 64bit again
[05:34:36] <[GT]Kane> :P
[05:34:57] * cheeser crosses himself and lights a candle for [GT]Kane
[05:35:03] <cHaoTiCa> Tauop....yup
[05:35:11] <Tauop> ok ok, I will do that so
[05:35:24] <[GT]Kane> I got my new boX!
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[05:35:33] <cheeser> if you're looking for method level debug, you could always use AOP
[05:35:39] <b14ck> Anyone here use solaris?
[05:35:40] <cheeser> i.e., method tracing
[05:35:41] <[GT]Kane> AMD 64 3800/2048MB/80GB/8IPs
[05:35:52] <Tauop> cheeser, hmm yes
[05:36:23] <cheeser> it's yet another thing to learn, but probably less work in the long run than sed'ing a billion files
[05:36:36] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[05:36:44] <Tauop> cheeser, :)
[05:36:46] <Tauop> do you know a module or programm with I can use to test the perfomance of my java program/applet (user of memory, use of CPU) ?
[05:36:59] <Tauop> a module / plugin for eclipse*
[05:37:01] <cHaoTiCa> less work?  /^\s*#/d  :)
[05:37:06] <cheeser> javabot: optimizeit
[05:37:07] <javabot> cheeser, I have no idea what optimizeit is.
[05:37:09] <cheeser> hrm.
[05:37:10] <b14ck> Tauop, top
[05:37:13] <b14ck> 'top'
[05:37:16] <cheeser> heh
[05:37:20] <Tauop> b14ck, lol
[05:37:26] <cheeser> that's not really a perf profiler
[05:37:28] <Tauop> top will give me the usage of the java_vm
[05:37:37] <Tauop> not of specific java program :S
[05:37:46] <cheeser> Tauop: google for java profiler
[05:37:51] <cheeser> optimizeit is one.
[05:38:00] <Tauop> ok... juste want to know if you know good one
[05:38:49] <[GT]Kane> HELP ME!!!!!
[05:39:32] * Tauop call superman for [GT]Kane :)
[05:39:59] <cHaoTiCa> Uvizor....so you know.  :)  The finalize method is never invoked more than once by a Java virtual machine for any given object.
[05:40:04] <cHaoTiCa> from the api docs
[05:40:24] <[GT]Kane> anyone point me to the IBM 1.5 SDK for java?
[05:40:36] <cheeser> [GT]Kane: not released yet.
[05:40:51] <[GT]Kane> so is it beta or leaked?
[05:40:55] <[GT]Kane> I heard people using it already
[05:41:26] <[GT]Kane> So i guess my next choice is sun
[05:41:30] <cheeser> there might be betas out there.
[05:41:42] <cheeser> i dunno if theirs is 64bit yet, though.
[05:41:43] <cHaoTiCa> sun ain't that bad :)
[05:41:46] <[GT]Kane> well
[05:41:55] <[GT]Kane> I run a lineage 2 server in java
[05:41:59] <[GT]Kane> so I need the best of the best :D
[05:42:04] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[05:42:25] <[GT]Kane> thing I hate about sun
[05:42:31] <cheeser> [GT]Kane: well, whether IBM's is the "best of the best" is debatable
[05:42:39] <[GT]Kane> I can't find direct download link
[05:42:46] <Uvizor> cHaoTiCa, Thanks for bringing that up; I hadn't paid much attention to that line before. But in the scenario I just mentioned, the unreachable object is set inside the finalize() of another object. So as you can see, it is not the static object's finalize() that is being called but rather another object.
[05:42:47] <cheeser> it's one the web page...
[05:43:00] <[GT]Kane> I went to the suns site
[05:43:04] <[GT]Kane> youclick accept
[05:43:09] <[GT]Kane> but theres no directs
[05:43:16] <cheeser> Uvizor: yeah, but now you have a reference to that object you're trying to finalize.
[05:43:25] <cheeser> [GT]Kane: so just go dl it.
[05:43:31] <cHaoTiCa> Uvizor....it's the same object...just a different reference to it
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[05:44:33] <[GT]Kane> Cheeser
[05:44:38] <[GT]Kane> I don;t want download 50mb file
[05:44:42] <[GT]Kane> upload it back onto my server
[05:44:46] <[GT]Kane> I want to do a wget
[05:44:53] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[05:44:55] * cheeser sheds a tear for [GT]Kane
[05:44:59] <Uvizor> cHaoTiCa, cheeser: Ok, gotacha. Next time hit me in the head for confusing reference with the actual object. It always gets me specially in multi-threading. :) Thank you guys.
[05:45:23] <cheeser> 8^)=
[05:45:31] <cHaoTiCa> np :)
[05:46:56] <cHaoTiCa> hrm
[05:47:28] <cHaoTiCa> can classes see an inner class's private methods?
[05:48:00] <bpalmer> ~tias
[05:48:00] <javabot> Try It And See.  You look silly asking if something will work when you can just try it and see.
[05:48:11] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[05:48:22] <cheeser> i'm thinking probably not
[05:48:44] <Uvizor> Make sure you try static and non-static methods in your "quest." :)
[05:48:53] <Uvizor> s/method/methods
[05:51:15] <cHaoTiCa> heh.  for static stuff it can :)
[05:51:32] <[GT]Kane> so what would be the fastest java 64bit from suns site? just jre?
[05:51:40] <Uvizor> Yup.
[05:52:07] <Uvizor> Boy I haven't coded in Java for over a year. I pretty much forgot everything...
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[05:53:22] <cHaoTiCa> non-static too
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[05:54:27] <cHaoTiCa> "inner classes cannot have static methods", though.  so y'all know.  :)
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[05:54:56] <cHaoTiCa> static inner classes con, but not non-static ones
[05:55:27] <cHaoTiCa> hrm
[05:55:34] <cheeser> yeah, mon.
[05:55:39] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[05:55:56] <[GT]Kane> I guess I want
[05:55:58] <[GT]Kane> Linux AMD64 RPM in self-extracting file
[05:56:02] <[GT]Kane> for the n00bs like me right
[05:56:23] <Frederick> according to this http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/data/numberclasses.html I cant expect an automatic cast like in c am I right?
[05:56:26] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[05:56:39] <Frederick> I mean I need to explicit conver an int to a float for example
[05:56:51] <mheath> [GT]Kane: An RPM is a package designed to be installing using the RPM package tool.
[05:56:54] <Uvizor> Inner classes can be extremely complicated.
[05:56:54] <cHaoTiCa> Frederick...for widening conversions, you can
[05:57:14] <cHaoTiCa> but if you'd lose precision, java won't do it automatically
[05:57:16] <mheath> [GT]Kane: er, nevermind; Sorry, I misread something you said.
[05:57:33] <Frederick> cHaoTiCa, I didnt understood you explanation can you please gime it in other words?
[05:59:04] <cHaoTiCa> Frederick....to convert an int to a float, you'll probably need a cast -- both are 32 bits, but some are used for scaling the number up or down
[05:59:17] <Frederick> hm
[05:59:32] <cHaoTiCa> so an int's bits can't all fit into a float
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[05:59:52] <cHaoTiCa> so java probably won't cast it automatically
[06:00:16] <cHaoTiCa> doubles are more useful anyway :)
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[06:00:33] <[GT]Kane> omg
[06:00:37] <[GT]Kane> this server sucks
[06:00:38] <[GT]Kane> lol
[06:00:41] <cHaoTiCa> :0
[06:00:42] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[06:00:49] <[GT]Kane> $ wget "http://jdl.sun.com/webapps/download/AutoDL?BundleId=10271"
[06:00:49] <[GT]Kane> wget: not found
[06:01:05] <[GT]Kane> aint it wget?
[06:01:32] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[06:01:40] <cHaoTiCa> if you've installed it, it is :)
[06:01:48] <[GT]Kane> wtf
[06:01:55] <[GT]Kane> how can it not be installed lol
[06:01:59] <[GT]Kane> thats like not having a pc on
[06:02:03] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[06:03:32] <Uvizor> [GT]Kane, Probably in a location not in your path.
[06:03:49] <cHaoTiCa> could also use lynx -source "the url" >jdk.rpm :)
[06:04:24] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: ping
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[06:04:45] <Kal-L> sup sup
[06:04:49] <Kal-L> anyone opinion
[06:05:00] <cHaoTiCa> it sucks
[06:05:04] <Kal-L> i had an app that just sends emails(smtp)
[06:05:05] <cheeser> sell!
[06:05:07] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[06:05:15] <Kal-L> now it doesn't work all of a sudden
[06:05:21] <Kal-L> isp maybe
[06:05:35] <Kal-L> haven't added any new software(firewall) or anything
[06:05:40] <cHaoTiCa> probably.  lots of isps block port 25 now
[06:05:54] <|^JaMeS^|> fire up ethereal and see what's up
[06:05:57] <cHaoTiCa> part of their anti spam campaign :)
[06:06:26] <Kal-L> if they block 25 how do they expect us to get our mail :)
[06:06:32] <Frederick> is there a smaller argument to call a printing function instead of System.out.println
[06:06:35] <Frederick> ?
[06:06:54] <cHaoTiCa> mail.yourisp.com :)
[06:07:09] <Kal-L> tried it
[06:07:11] <cheeser> Frederick: eh?
[06:07:35] <Kal-L> ooh lol
[06:07:35] <cHaoTiCa> Frederick.....heh.  if you're printing a lot....PrintStream o = System.out;  then use o.println(...)  :)
[06:07:55] <cheeser> javabot: tell Frederick about lazy git
[06:07:55] <javabot> Frederick throws LazyGitException
[06:08:04] <cHaoTiCa> hehehe
[06:08:13] <Frederick> huh?
[06:08:15] <Bob7> :)
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[06:08:48] <vman_____> how does a DatagramChannel differ from a DatagramSocket in terms of what it can do?
[06:09:23] <cHaoTiCa> vman_____.....DatagramChannel is part of NIO
[06:09:34] <vman_____> well
[06:09:45] <vman_____> right now im trying to use a DatagramChannel to send a recieve udp packets
[06:09:50] <cHaoTiCa> it uses ByteBuffers and such
[06:10:15] <vman_____> everything is initalizes properly and such, but when i turn out packetmon, it doesn't show any packets going out
[06:10:50] <vman_____> now i dont know if its cause im running the test thru junit or what
[06:10:58] <vman_____> but it doesnt seem to be sending it out, or failing.
[06:11:09] <Frederick> cHaoTiCa, I didnt understand
[06:11:10] <cHaoTiCa> ByteBuffers can be a pain.... :)  iirc you have to flip() them or something before you can read what was put in them
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[06:11:56] <vman_____> cHaoTiCa: im trying to send stuff out right now, not read.
[06:11:57] <vman_____>             data = packet.constructPacket();
[06:11:57] <vman_____>             System.out.println(socket.send(ByteBuffer.wrap(data), connectedToAddress));
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[06:12:13] <vman_____> that prints out 3, which is right
[06:12:29] <vman_____> but i dont see the packet getting sent on packetmon
[06:12:39] <vman_____> no firewalls or anything installed btw
[06:13:13] <Frederick> how do I import javaio? I cant use println without it
[06:13:22] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[06:13:34] <cHaoTiCa> import java.io.PrintStream;
[06:13:53] <vman_____> ok, there we go :)
[06:13:59] <vman_____> it must of been cause i was sending it to local host
[06:14:02] <vman_____> it seems to work fine
[06:14:02] <Frederick> cHaoTiCa, thx a lot
[06:14:13] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[06:14:19] <Kal-L> when transferring files via socket....should i copy the file into a byte array first?
[06:14:30] <vman_____> so nio will work on all j2se 1.5.0 implementations? or does the computer need to have something special hardware/software wise?
[06:14:58] <cHaoTiCa> it's part of java from 1.4 on up
[06:15:12] <vman_____> and what makes nio so special?
[06:15:56] <cHaoTiCa> it's built for higher performance
[06:17:12] <cHaoTiCa> it uses buffers instead of byte[]s for stuff, so you don't have to do a looping read() as often
[06:17:23] <cHaoTiCa> and channels can be selectable
[06:18:14] <cHaoTiCa> meaning you can use a select() method, which works a lot like c's, instead of spawning a thread for each socket
[06:18:24] <Kal-L> hmm..
[06:19:44] <cHaoTiCa> for most people, writing simple clients or something, it's often not worth the extra complexity involved
[06:20:32] <vman_____> i didnt see a select() method anywhere, but thats good, cause i do alot of socket programming in c
[06:20:40] <cHaoTiCa> but if you're writing a server that accepts hundreds of connections per second, nio will make java.io look like a chump :)
[06:21:26] <cHaoTiCa> s/will/can/
[06:21:35] <cHaoTiCa> depends on how well you use it :)
[06:21:56] <cHaoTiCa> vman_____.....there's a Selector class, iirc, that has it
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[06:24:42] <vman_____> cool, it'll come in handy when im writing the server class for this RUDP implementation
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[06:34:02] <poeta_boy> hello everyone, I'm just planning to implement a jdbc, so I was just wondering, is it very complex? or it's just a matter of following the java connector spec?
[06:34:35] <cheeser> you want to implement your own driver?
[06:34:37] <cheeser> wtf for?
[06:34:41] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[06:35:15] <poeta_boy> hehee good q.... I work for this place, and they have a "propietary" data repository
[06:35:23] <poeta_boy> kinda database
[06:35:36] <cHaoTiCa> you gonna parse sql?
[06:36:04] <cHaoTiCa> cause i don't know whether jdbc will do that for you, but i assume not
[06:36:37] <poeta_boy> yes, the thing is that we bought a new system, and it only accepts jdbc, since the prop system doesn't have a connector, we use xml files
[06:36:52] <poeta_boy> but you can see the overhead it produces
[06:37:14] <poeta_boy> I just need basic things.... selects, inserts
[06:37:24] <poeta_boy> not nested things at all
[06:38:28] <cHaoTiCa> hrm
[06:39:35] <cHaoTiCa> never tried it.....but it seems like it'd be a headache and a half :)
[06:40:09] <poeta_boy> you think?.... I have the java conn espec, but it's quite as heavy as me
[06:40:33] <poeta_boy> so I wanted to ask someone first..... maybe it's not that important to read it all
[06:41:15] <cheeser> the mysql and pgsql JDBC drivers are open source.  you could take a peek there.
[06:41:30] <cheeser> you don't have to parse sql as such as long as your datastore supports it.
[06:41:40] <cheeser> JDBC, afaik, is just a transport/translation layer.
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[06:42:21] <cHaoTiCa> the way he said "kinda database", i assumed there wasn't much support built in :)
[06:43:05] <poeta_boy> yes.... I'd have to do parsing
[06:43:18] <poeta_boy> sql perse is not there :(
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[06:43:28] <cHaoTiCa> "kinda database" to me means something like gdbm
[06:44:32] <cHaoTiCa> poeta_boy....no odbc driver either?
[06:44:43] <poeta_boy> it means it stores data in an ordered fashion, supports selects, resultSets and stuff, "kinda database" only that no sql for it, is like an special way of  sql
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[06:44:52] <poeta_boy> nope no connector at all
[06:45:04] <poeta_boy> a propietary one :)
[06:45:25] <cheeser> poeta_boy: i'm sorry, bud.  that sounds like a crap assignment.
[06:45:42] <poeta_boy> why is that?
[06:45:45] <cHaoTiCa> btw, as you can probably tell, we're trying to steer you away from coding a jdbc driver :)
[06:46:16] <poeta_boy> hehehe yes I can see that, that was my idea, I don't want to spend weeks just for innovation
[06:46:32] <poeta_boy> and ending in nowhere
[06:46:41] <cHaoTiCa> does the java app have a way to specify the queries that pell stuff out of the db?
[06:46:47] <cHaoTiCa> pull too
[06:47:49] <cHaoTiCa> couse if you could use the query language the db system uses, coding a driver would be a lot simpler
[06:48:14] <poeta_boy> the way we do it now is like: db.connect(); db.selectTable(myTable); db.constructSet("id", name"); db.getData(id,name);
[06:48:18] <poeta_boy> so procedural
[06:48:28] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[06:49:06] <poeta_boy> hehe you see, it's a headache the way it is
[06:49:29] <cHaoTiCa> you don't know anything about headaches yet :)
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[06:50:00] <poeta_boy> hehehe but, I believe I could write a parse inside the connector right?
[06:50:18] <cHaoTiCa> you could
[06:50:37] <cHaoTiCa> might try to find a free sql parser somewhere, though
[06:50:58] <cHaoTiCa> maybe rip the parser out of sqlite or something
[06:51:22] <poeta_boy> so I'd have my executeQuery(), but it would have to receive one String....... I suppose I can't overload it to receive something else
[06:52:13] <cHaoTiCa> you could, but the app probably wouldn't use it.   so your time would be wasted.  :P
[06:53:20] <poeta_boy> mmmm it's quite a messy "kinda database" we have here... it uses SQL Server as a repository, so I suppose I could access it instead of the real thing
[06:53:36] <cHaoTiCa> ..?
[06:53:42] <poeta_boy> but it creates like 5 tables for each user table
[06:53:52] <cHaoTiCa> what do you mean, it uses sql server as a repository?
[06:53:56] <poeta_boy> and only God knows what is in there
[06:54:51] <poeta_boy> the app is for us to maintain some data like customers etc.... so it has a lot of specific functions, that a normal db doesn't have
[06:55:14] <poeta_boy> like merging registers but still maintaining original keys,
[06:55:42] <cHaoTiCa> will it only work with sql server?
[06:55:54] <poeta_boy> an some more........... so we need to use that data, and we use xml because that's the only way (that and plain text files)
[06:56:14] <poeta_boy> it works qith SQL server, Oracle and.... mmm access I think
[06:56:28] <cHaoTiCa> hrm
[06:57:06] <poeta_boy> now I realize the mess I am in
[06:57:08] <poeta_boy> :P
[06:57:12] <cHaoTiCa> might look through the db and see if there are any stored procedures that do the db's work
[06:57:29] <cHaoTiCa> the sql server db, i mean
[06:58:13] <poeta_boy> if there's some logic, that I must do to parse SQL server data into Human readable data, where should I put it?
[06:58:34] <poeta_boy> I mean not human readable data, but jdbc data
[06:58:39] <poeta_boy> for the new system
[06:58:44] <cHaoTiCa> ?
[06:59:03] <cHaoTiCa> there are already drivers for sql server
[06:59:26] <cHaoTiCa> heck, ms might even have one available on their site :)
[07:00:13] <poeta_boy> yep, but our app doesn't use SQL server in a transparent way...... it uses as a container, but there are no tables such as "Customers" in there... just tables like "relationships", "key mappings"
[07:02:07] <cHaoTiCa> you could add sp's and/or views to ms sql that present the data in a decent form
[07:02:36] <cHaoTiCa> it'd likely be a lot less trouble than writing what amounts to a mini dbms :)
[07:03:31] <poeta_boy> that's right........ so I have my prop system A that has data in it's own messy way, and system B that only understands "Select * from Customers" the logic for the views, where should be?
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[07:04:25] <Timmy01> hey can someone help me with my socket channels
[07:04:53] <Timmy01> i need help with writing a file to a byte buffer
[07:05:38] <cHaoTiCa> poeta_boy...the views would be in the sql server db that has the data
[07:05:52] <cHaoTiCa> sp's too
[07:06:36] <poeta_boy> but for every Select From, I must write also the views, so everytime I want to selec, a lot of sql must be executed first right?
[07:08:03] <Kal-L> i'm so tired
[07:08:07] <Kal-L> i can't even focus
[07:08:14] <Kal-L> not to mention i've had a hurricane :)
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[07:08:49] <cHaoTiCa> poeta_boy...the views are stored in the db.  to the client, they look almost exactly like tables
[07:08:56] <Kal-L> drink..not storm
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[07:09:04] <poeta_boy> ohh..... I get it
[07:09:32] <poeta_boy> so... I can conclude that writting a jdbc is just not the way to go :P
[07:09:51] <cHaoTiCa> it's probably not :)
[07:10:04] <poeta_boy> is it really a hell of a work to do?
[07:10:58] <poeta_boy> it happened the same when I tried to use webservices in a standalone manner.... java webServices spec are just discouraging
[07:11:58] <cHaoTiCa> well....if you want to connect to the proprietary code, you'll need to code or rip an sql parser, and add a layer that knows how to do the actual queries
[07:12:48] <cHaoTiCa> plus some code to convert the results into something jdbc expects to use
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[07:12:59] <poeta_boy> yep that's right
[07:13:17] <Cow_woC> hi
[07:13:18] <poeta_boy> OR... do the views in the db
[07:13:30] <poeta_boy> and make the jdbc use it
[07:13:32] <Cow_woC> does anyone know if there is a way to tell FireFox to open all links in a given open, one tab per link?
[07:13:33] <cHaoTiCa> all in all, it's probably simpler to figure out how the data is stored in the db and create the needed views
[07:13:42] <Cow_woC> I have 100 links in a given page and I don't want to have to click them one at a time
[07:14:00] <poeta_boy> it will include reverse engeneering
[07:14:06] <poeta_boy> hehe sounds like fun
[07:14:14] <cHaoTiCa> Cow_woC....heh.  there might be a plugin for that  :)
[07:14:36] <cHaoTiCa> if not, i hear gecko plugins aren't that hard to write
[07:16:29] <cHaoTiCa> if you have control over the page, you could open the url behind each link in document.getElementsByTagName("a").... :)
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[07:16:45] <cHaoTiCa> but most popup blockers hate that
[07:17:08] <delvinj> just type it into the address bar
[07:17:21] <Cow_woC> cHaoTiCa: found this: http://gemal.dk/mozilla/linky.html but I'm not sure how to trigger it
[07:18:06] <Cow_woC> ah, no wonder, I have to restart FireFox :)
[07:18:07] <Cow_woC> oops
[07:18:14] <shredstar> Cow_woC: yeah, just right click on a bookmark folder which has several sub-bookmarks, and select "Open in Tabs", and stand clear.
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[07:18:34] <Cow_woC> shredstar: this isn't a bookmark
[07:18:47] <Cow_woC> shredstar: I've got a webpage where one of their pages links to 100 images
[07:18:52] <shredstar> Cow_woC: yeah, I answered a different question. but I still gave you an answer.
[07:18:53] <Cow_woC> and I want to open 100 tabs, one link per tab
[07:18:57] <Cow_woC> :P
[07:18:58] <Cow_woC> ok
[07:19:37] <shredstar> I guess the protocol is to attack you for asking that, instead of just saying 'i don't know'.
[07:19:52] <Cow_woC> hmm, damnit... linky is limited to 99 links, I've got 203 I'm trying to open
[07:19:57] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[07:20:15] <cHaoTiCa> Cow_woC....os?
[07:20:47] <shredstar> Cow_woC: Is your IP address a multiple of 3?
[07:20:57] <cHaoTiCa> i know windows likes to freak out once a certain number of windows are created... :)
[07:21:01] <Cow_woC> cHaoTiCa: what do you mean os?
[07:21:21] <Cow_woC> cHaoTiCa: no, this is a linky limitation
[07:21:23] <Cow_woC> as far as I can tell
[07:21:28] <Cow_woC> shredstar: why would that matter?
[07:21:29] <cHaoTiCa> hrm
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[07:22:33] <Cow_woC> ha, found a workaround
[07:22:53] <Cow_woC> if you tell it to open all links in new windows, then FireFox is set to convert all "open in new window" to "open in new tab", then it works
[07:23:19] <Cow_woC> of course, now FireFox is choking with 100% cpu usage
[07:23:21] <delvinj> millions of windows
[07:23:37] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[07:23:41] <Cow_woC> not millions, just 203
[07:23:48] <Cow_woC> :)
[07:24:00] <delvinj> have you set your browser cache memory flag
[07:24:08] <cHaoTiCa> Cow_woC....for reference, it looks like at least part of linky is in javascript :)
[07:24:24] <Cow_woC> delvinj: no ... ?
[07:24:26] <cHaoTiCa> read: easily editable
[07:24:27] <Cow_woC> what is that?
[07:24:44] <delvinj> on windows firefox has some memory leakage issues
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[07:24:56] <delvinj> lookin for the key..
[07:25:18] <shredstar> firefox lets you set all kinds of stuff in the about:config page, of course.
[07:25:30] <delvinj> Cow_woC: type in about:config
[07:25:45] <delvinj> and then browser.cache.memory for thte filter
[07:26:13] <delvinj> and hmm.. looks like mine got fux0red somehow
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[07:26:41] <Cow_woC> it's enabled on mine
[07:27:04] <delvinj> yeah
[07:27:07] <delvinj> http://www.tweakguides.com/Firefox_8.html
[07:27:15] <delvinj> you may want to change the value
[07:27:18] <delvinj> thats all
[07:27:23] <delvinj> or you may not
[07:27:30] <delvinj> it was a bigger problem in earlier releases
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[07:28:27] <cHaoTiCa> if (selnum > 99 && (opentype == 1 || opentype == 3)) {
[07:28:28] <cHaoTiCa> 			opener.linkyShared.trace("Cant open more than 99 links. You tried to open " + selnum + " link. Please deselect some links!", 1);
[07:28:41] <Cow_woC> hmm
[07:28:43] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[07:28:58] <shredstar> s/99/9999/
[07:29:00] <Cow_woC> cHaoTiCa: it looks like the problem is actually partially in FireFox ... you never even reach 99 tabs and its performance degrades
[07:29:30] <cHaoTiCa> doesn't surprise me :)
[07:29:31] <Cow_woC> cHaoTiCa: btw, where did you find this JS file?
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[07:31:51] <cHaoTiCa> linky.xpi/chrome/linky.jar/content/select-links.js, about 3/4 of the way down
[07:32:24] <Cow_woC> I don't have linky.xpi on my end
[07:32:45] <cHaoTiCa> it was the plugin you downloaded :)
[07:33:16] <cHaoTiCa> so linky.jar might be in the browser's chrome/ directory at this point
[07:33:20] <Cow_woC> right
[07:33:24] <Cow_woC> is xpi using the zip format?
[07:33:39] <kinabalu> linky?  wtf?
[07:33:48] <cHaoTiCa> dunno.  all i know is winrar opens it :)
[07:34:16] <Cow_woC> k
[07:34:21] <Cow_woC> kinabalu: linky is a FireFox plugin
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[07:36:28] <cHaoTiCa> Cow_woC....looks like it's a zip
[07:36:48] <kinabalu> Cow_woC: whatever does it do?
[07:37:08] <Cow_woC> kinabalu: opens all links in a page, one link per tab
[07:37:35] <Cow_woC> cHaoTiCa: it's too bad I couldn't tell Linky to open all links within a given "table" in the page instead of *all* the links
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[07:38:11] <cHaoTiCa> it says it can open selected links....that mean just one at a time?
[07:38:22] <kinabalu> Cow_woC: porn browser
[07:38:24] <Cow_woC> it opens all the tabs at once
[07:38:28] <Cow_woC> kinabalu: I use it for DeviantArt
[07:38:34] <Cow_woC> at least, I'm trying to
[07:38:35] <kinabalu> DeviantArt?
[07:38:43] <kinabalu> the wallpapers?
[07:38:46] <Cow_woC> kinabalu: yeah
[07:38:54] <Cow_woC> they charge you money for a better browsing system
[07:39:02] <cHaoTiCa> can you select a section of the page, and just open the links in that section?
[07:39:04] <Cow_woC> so I don't want to pay. I want the browser to open it for me
[07:39:07] <kinabalu> whats wrong with apple-click, apple-click, apple-click
[07:39:17] <kinabalu> Cow_woC: don't be a cheap ass :)
[07:39:20] <Cow_woC> cHaoTiCa: not in this case...
[07:39:26] <Cow_woC> apple-click? :)
[07:39:33] <kinabalu> cmd-click ... WHATEVER :)
[07:39:38] <Cow_woC> cmd-click?
[07:39:40] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[07:39:41] <Cow_woC> :)
[07:40:02] <kinabalu> <--- apple lover
[07:40:17] <cHaoTiCa> <-- uses real computers :)
[07:40:20] <Cow_woC> heh
[07:40:31] <kinabalu> <-- uses computers with no known viruses or spyware
[07:40:34] <Cow_woC> kinabalu: I'm a fan of OSX ... though the interface isn't quite "there" yet for me
[07:40:37] <Cow_woC> it's too unixy
[07:40:47] <kinabalu> Cow_woC: thats particularly what I love about it ..
[07:40:49] <Cow_woC> kinabalu: back when I used OS/2 I never had problems with viruses or spyware either
[07:40:57] <kinabalu> Cow_woC: i really HATE windows interface ... always felt kludgy
[07:41:06] <kinabalu> Cow_woC: but OSX actually has software for it ..
[07:41:20] <Cow_woC> kinabalu: the problem with the OSX interface is that the icons are way too freakin' big
[07:41:22] <cHaoTiCa> heh.  my linux boxes don't have viruses or spyware either :)
[07:41:47] <kinabalu> cHaoTiCa: sure thing :)  but linux doesn't have the feel of OSX though :)
[07:41:58] <mohadib> sure , its better
[07:42:00] <kinabalu> Cow_woC: i'm sure you could make them smaller .. but thats part of the allure ..
[07:42:05] <shredstar> The rocks in my backyard have no known viruses or spyware on them.
[07:42:08] <kinabalu> mohadib: linux?
[07:42:13] <mohadib> yes
[07:42:16] <kinabalu> shredstar: they will
[07:42:22] <cHaoTiCa> shredstar... :)
[07:42:25] <kinabalu> mohadib: crack .. you .. smoking it .. what kind? :)
[07:42:29] <mohadib> haha
[07:45:41] <mohadib> man there are alot of J2EE jobs out there
[07:45:49] <delvinj> yeah dude
[07:46:07] <mohadib> not a whole lot of work for us Swingers :\
[07:47:01] <Cow_woC> J2EE are monkey jobs
[07:47:08] <mohadib> but they pay alot
[07:47:15] <Cow_woC> money != pleasure
[07:47:17] <shredstar> AIDS came from monkeys.
[07:47:36] <mohadib> Cow_woC: well pleasure != poor
[07:47:44] <Cow_woC> look ... bottom line is ... guys who went to college for a "career program" do web dev
[07:47:48] <shredstar> Cow_woC: Give me your money, and we'll test that.
[07:47:48] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[07:47:54] <mohadib> heh
[07:47:55] <Cow_woC> it is insulting to me to go through university and be expected to do web dev
[07:48:09] <Cow_woC> and/or never get to apply some basic mathematics or anything else I've spent countless years learning
[07:48:10] <mohadib> yes , web dev is very boring
[07:48:23] <Cow_woC> the entire computer industry is in the shit right now
[07:48:24] <Cow_woC> big time!
[07:48:25] <delvinj> especicially if its the java bible 101 crap
[07:49:02] <shredstar> web dev = Boss saying: "These boxes should be red, you idiot! Put 3 pixels to the left of that <table> !"
[07:49:14] <mohadib> well , if i have to do web dev , i would rather do it in java than perl/php
[07:49:32] <Cow_woC> I live in Canada right now... you know what kind of jobs we get in Canada? Only outsourced jobs. You know what that means? All the design happens in the US, all the crap monkey work happens in Canada. Sure you can find jobs in Canada, but they all suck rocks; every single last one of them.
[07:49:47] <delvinj> for real?
[07:49:57] <mohadib> wow , you sound a tad bitter
[07:50:02] <Cow_woC> well, I am :) no doubt
[07:50:12] <Cow_woC> but I haven't seen an interesting job in Canada in years
[07:50:17] <Cow_woC> definately no design-level stuff
[07:50:19] <mohadib> maybe just a little ;p
[07:50:30] <shredstar> Cow_woC: let me help you start a design company.
[07:50:37] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[07:50:47] <mohadib> Cow_woC: i have a pretty cool job now , im just not getting paid much
[07:50:48] <shredstar>  put me in charge of anger management.
[07:50:57] <delvinj> serenity now
[07:51:07] <cHaoTiCa> i'm just glad they don't outsource the cool jobs :)
[07:51:31] <shredstar> Yeah, that would suck to live in America and get stuck with some shit Canadian job.
[07:51:34] <Cow_woC> mohadib: what do you work on?
[07:51:45] <delvinj> as long as i can have my nerf gun
[07:51:48] <cHaoTiCa> shredstar.....tell me about it.  :)
[07:52:09] <mohadib> Cow_woC: i work on a practice managment software everyday , Its all swing
[07:52:23] <Cow_woC> what is practice management?
[07:52:30] <delvinj> hmo stuff?
[07:52:34] <shredstar> oh that dot-com thing. work in cubes for free t-shirts, and squirt-gun thursdays, oh yay let's play like we are 13!
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[07:52:42] <palomer> what's a "classpath"?
[07:52:49] <mohadib> Cow_woC: yes , it does EDI (electronic claims) and EMR
[07:53:23] <mohadib> Cow_woC: here is a really old and shitty screen shot http://www.claim.md/md_screens/sb_good.png
[07:53:33] <mohadib> that is just one of the many screens
[07:53:52] <delvinj> looks pretty decent to me
[07:54:04] <cHaoTiCa> i never got why people are so mad about outsourcing....the people losing jobs are the ones who should've learned more anyway :)
[07:54:06] <mohadib> delvinj: ty , that is a really old screen shot
[07:54:15] <delvinj> is that on an apple?
[07:54:25] <mohadib> na , Linux
[07:55:01] <shredstar> mohadib: hey that's neat.
[07:55:25] <mohadib> thanks :) , let me get a current screen shot , one sec
[07:55:38] <Cow_woC> cHaoTiCa: I'm not so bitter with the fact that outsourcing exists..... except that suddenly the majority of managers think that it is alright to treat their employees like crap because .. heck, they're only worth $3 / day
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[07:56:04] <Cow_woC> if someone else wants to do boring work, great, but when it bounces back on me then I begin caring
[07:56:11] <delvinj> Cow_woC: so would you vouch for me if if i move to CA  =)
[07:56:18] * Cow_woC is just bitter because he graduated university one year after the bubble burst
[07:56:40] <cHaoTiCa> Cow_woC....let them find someone that can do your job as well as you can and will take $3/day :)
[07:56:52] <Cow_woC> I had co-workers in my company making 100k (starting salary) and they were utter idiots and I wasn't making even half that
[07:57:20] <Cow_woC> there are no more 100k jobs in Canada anymore, unless you actually earn them. Back in the day, any idiot was getting 100k salary. I'm bitter for missing that
[07:57:42] <cHaoTiCa> quite frankly, india produces crap code, and that's a monkey job.  i wouldn't trust them to actually design anything.  :)
[07:57:54] <Cow_woC> cHaoTiCa: the problem is that manager don't care about "as well as you can" anymore... For $3/day, we can afford to hire 50 people like you and the quality "will balance out"
[07:58:01] <shredstar> yep - and houses cost 50% as much.
[07:58:22] <Cow_woC> cHaoTiCa: agreed ...... though again, the problem is that managers don't understand or care so we get bitten in the ass anyway
[07:59:39] <shredstar> another problem is all those idiots making big salaries still have nice looking resumes.  so nobody trusts interviewees like they used to - cause most are better liars now.
[08:00:21] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[08:00:24] <delvinj> you guys sound jaded as hell =)
[08:00:51] <mohadib> shredstar: http://www.javanub.net/blue_sched3.png  another old oone
[08:00:59] <mohadib> looks much less tacky now :p
[08:01:16] <delvinj> looks like a little kde action there
[08:01:24] <Cow_woC> mohadib: that's actually very good looking
[08:01:30] <mohadib> yes , nuvola icons , they are gpl
[08:01:32] <mohadib> ty Cow_woC
[08:01:43] <mohadib> lpgl
[08:01:47] <mohadib> lgpl :p
[08:01:47] <delvinj> i'm a fan of lila blue
[08:01:51] <Cow_woC> though the font sizes are too small in some places; making them hard to readl
[08:01:56] <Cow_woC> readl -> read
[08:02:08] <mohadib> yes , i agree
[08:03:48] <shredstar> mohadib: project looks great - good luck.
[08:03:57] <mohadib> shredstar: thanks a lot :)
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[08:04:25] <mohadib> its a lot of fun and good exp. , but I'm not making much to do it :\
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[08:19:45] <shredstar> mohadib: that sux. some of those medical procedures cost something like $20,000 per visit.
[08:21:21] <cHaoTiCa> heh.  he's writing code to track them.  he's not in the OR with a scalpel.  :)
[08:22:32] <cHaoTiCa> not to belittle the work
[08:23:36] <cHaoTiCa> it looks like good stuff :)
[08:24:44] <cHaoTiCa> but if he were doing it for a free clinic or something, it'd be about the same work
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[08:31:33] <mohadib> shredstar: yes , its crazy how much that stuff cost
[08:31:58] <Timmy01> what would be a better choice?
[08:32:07] <Timmy01> datagram socket
[08:32:12] <Timmy01> or using socket channels?
[08:32:13] <shredstar> mohadib: ABout the same time you incorporate outsourced code, add a few Random.nextInt() calls to strategic locations. Blame the bugs on the outsourcing.
[08:32:25] <mohadib> haha
[08:32:46] <mohadib> im looking for another job
[08:32:47] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[08:32:50] <mohadib> ;)
[08:33:19] <omay> anybody uses idea and jsp here?
[08:34:43] <cHaoTiCa> i tried idea....wasn't really impressed
[08:35:01] <cHaoTiCa> but then, i was looking for a decent form editor :)
[08:35:29] <mohadib> cHaoTiCa: did you find anything?
[08:36:15] <cHaoTiCa> not really.  i'd rather code the ui by hand than use what i've seen.  :P
[08:37:02] <mohadib> i agree
[08:37:25] <omay> cHaoTiCa: coding UI in idea is not really nice, it's true
[08:38:16] <omay> cHaoTiCa: but i think it's nevertheless better as manually
[08:38:54] <cHaoTiCa> better as?
[08:39:58] <omay> better than
[08:41:08] <tag> UI code is silly
[08:41:21] <tag> I dislike the entire concept, UIs should be markup.
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[08:42:33] <mohadib> why would using markup be better?
[08:42:54] <mohadib> have you seen xml?
[08:42:59] <mohadib> it is not pretty
[08:44:31] <omay> the best is if gui can be created with a gui for gui creation :)
[08:44:41] <tag> Simple.  It's not code, no matter how you want to do it, an interface should be an abstracted tier of your application (in most instances) not actually bound to the function of the application in any way.  What better mechanism for that than markup?
[08:45:32] <tag> and so what if XML isn't pretty, it's been very appropriately designed.
[08:45:35] <rogue-kun{B}> omay: Netbeans, and JBuild both have gui, gui builders 8)
[08:45:49] <mohadib> um , i talking readability , I dont see much differience in markup code or some gridbaglayout code , i do prefer reading GBL code
[08:46:17] <omay> rogue-kun{B}: idea have gui builder too :) but it's no so good as that one in vs
[08:46:37] <shredstar> You can do alot of UI coding in 1 day (8 hours). The only issue is how often you change your mind, and you have that problem with a form editor too.
[08:47:11] <mohadib> form editors make ugly code
[08:47:18] <shredstar> My dog's name is GridBagConstraints.
[08:47:23] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[08:47:28] <mohadib> and it is hard to be very exact or flexbale using a form editor
[08:47:35] <mohadib> imho
[08:47:40] <rogue-kun{B}> shredstar: poor dog
[08:48:18] <tag> A common feature of code generation is illegibility.
[08:49:00] <mohadib> i dont think any swing editor can handle a complex interactive gui
[08:49:08] <mohadib> not that i have seen ;)
[08:49:58] <rogue-kun{B}> mohadib what doesn't netbeans do for that? ;)
[08:50:05] <mohadib> heh
[08:50:29] <mohadib> maybe , but i think you need a flipping cluster to make it work at a useable speed
[08:51:37] <rogue-kun{B}> mohadib: i have no probe with it on an Athalon XP 1800+
[08:52:04] <mohadib> nice , i have not tried it in a long time
[08:52:37] <mohadib> i tried it when i was a newb and found that it hide too much of what was happening
[08:52:43] <omay> does anybody code jsp(2) anyhow? :)
[08:53:31] <rogue-kun{B}> mohadib well i found it as Studio One 4 at first and found it a drang on my K6 yes
[08:56:16] <cHaoTiCa> netbeans is still a pig :)
[08:56:28] <cHaoTiCa> not as much as it used to be, it seems
[08:56:39] <cHaoTiCa> but still a pig
[08:56:53] <rogue-kun{B}> oh it deftly not a resorce light app 8)
[08:58:54] <mohadib> i dont think any java app is ;)
[08:59:14] <cybereal> J2ME :)
[08:59:21] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[08:59:48] <cybereal> Running with 64k of ram kinda requires you to think about resources :)
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[08:59:59] <Timmy01> can someone point me in the direct of writing a file to a byte buffer?
[08:59:59] <cHaoTiCa> 64k?  heh
[09:00:12] <Timmy01> please? :D
[09:00:20] <cybereal> cHaoTiCa: yeah some of the most popular J2ME enabled phones provide that much ram for j2me apps
[09:01:01] <cybereal> most new ones have 256+
[09:01:12] <cHaoTiCa> i haven't been limited to 64k since i was asm'ing on my coco 15 years ago :)
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[09:02:36] <cybereal> cHaoTiCa: it's a little different since the 64k is devoted to the running app and doesn't include phone specific services and such but, the objects that interface with them are counted
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[09:14:23] <cHaoTiCa> bah.
[09:14:41] <cHaoTiCa> java needs a decent equivalent to Reflection.Emit
[09:14:48] <frosch> Does Java support something like "char[] text; System.out.println(text); ? I mean, something that doesn't force me to iterate through all elements in an array and print them one by one but print "automatically" all elements in a char array?
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[09:15:46] <cybereal> what's so hard about iterating over an array?
[09:15:53] <cHaoTiCa> ~tell frosch about tias
[09:15:53] <javabot> frosch, Try It And See.  You look silly asking if something will work when you can just try it and see.
[09:16:02] <omay> frosch: why not String?
[09:16:05] <Cow_woC> frosch: I think you can do: new String(text) and print that out
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[09:16:19] <cybereal> doesn't this work?: for (int i = 0; i < myarray.length; System.out.println(myarray[++i])  ?
[09:16:54] <frosch> omay, because text isn't a String. And I already tried it - it didn't work. But because Java support some things like char[] text; text.length which I didn't expect I was just wondering...
[09:16:58] <cHaoTiCa> why bother?  see PrintStream.println(char[] x) :)
[09:17:15] <cybereal> hah
[09:18:32] <frosch> cybereal: of course this does work (as I mentioned iterating through the whole array as alternative) but I was just wondering if there might be another convenient java way to do this...
[09:19:02] <frosch> Another dumb question ist char[] of type Character?
[09:19:21] <frosch> Cow_woC: thanks
[09:19:22] <cHaoTiCa> do they look alike? :)
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[09:20:02] <cybereal> frosch: it just depends on what you want to have happen, as cHaoTiCa poitned out, there is a method on PrintStream that takes char[]
[09:20:03] <cHaoTiCa> one's an array of chars, one's an object holding a single char
[09:20:21] <frosch> cHaoTiCa: well, no but I couldn't find something like char[] in the j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/ - so I guess the "core language" isn't there ;-)
[09:21:08] <cybereal> frosch: why are you using an array of char anyway?
[09:21:57] <cHaoTiCa> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/io/PrintStream.html#println(char[])
[09:22:13] <omay> frosch: what you can't to with String what you can do with char[]?
[09:22:13] <frosch> cybereal: I'm not - I don't do any Java programming ;-)  I'm just reading through some source I got and I'm wondering about all this java magic in there...
[09:22:53] <frosch> cHaoTiCa: thanks
[09:23:22] <cHaoTiCa> omay......among other things......arr[0] = 'H'   :)
[09:23:57] <cHaoTiCa> you could replace chars using Strings, but you'd end up creating a new String for every replacement you do
[09:24:29] <cybereal> frosch: oh I see; well there isn't as much magic to java as one might hope for :)
[09:25:11] <omay> cHaoTiCa: there is also StringBuffer, StringBuilder...
[09:25:12] <cHaoTiCa> yeah....java is more like a screwdriver than a magic wand :)
[09:25:39] <cHaoTiCa> all of which have more overhead than changing an array element
[09:25:57] <cHaoTiCa> > omay
[09:26:20] <frosch> cHaoTiCa: thanks, now I know why  System.out.println("string" + char[]stuff); didn't work as expected by my friend.
[09:26:51] <cHaoTiCa> np :)
[09:27:32] <cHaoTiCa> omay....suffice it to say that char[]s have value, but String* is simpler to use :)
[09:27:53] <omay> i preffer simple use
[09:28:08] <omay> if i want fast things i take c
[09:28:32] <cHaoTiCa> i generally do too.  but when raw performance is a big deal, char[] > String in many cases :)
[09:28:54] <frosch> From my point of view some things do look like magic - in the sense of less effort needed. (at least than I would have needed to go through while using C or even C++)
[09:29:00] <cHaoTiCa> and btw, java can be as fast as c in some cases :)
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[09:29:31] <cHaoTiCa> esp if you know where the overhead is, and learn to elemenate it :)
[09:29:36] <cHaoTiCa> eliminate too
[09:31:53] <omay> i don't like primitive types :) they causes more problems as solve such ;)
[09:32:20] <cHaoTiCa> someone i know has a job writing java code that can shuffle enough bytes to choke a server written in c :)
[09:32:44] <frosch> cHaoTiCa: well, its not that hard to write bad c code...
[09:33:15] <cHaoTiCa> it's not that hard to write bad java code.  or good code, for that matter.  :)
[09:33:59] <omay> cHaoTiCa: it's easier to write bad c code as bad java code ;)
[09:34:23] <cHaoTiCa> heh.  you're making my case for me.  :)
[09:35:40] <omay> :)
[09:36:09] <cHaoTiCa> seriously, the reason most people think of java as slow is that most people who write java code are ignorant of the consequences of their actions
[09:37:50] <cHaoTiCa> they use big, heavy objects -- and lots of them -- to do things that could be done with an array and some ingenuity :)
[09:39:00] <cHaoTiCa> thank sun for part of that :)  they tend to push purity over performance
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[09:41:42] <tag> Anyone familiar with rhino?
[09:41:58] <delvinj> yeah a little
[09:42:28] <cHaoTiCa> heard of it once or twice, but i never used it
[09:42:28] <delvinj> ive been meaning to mess around with it more
[09:43:06] <tag> I just want to load generated class files (which implement scriptable objects in some form or other and I'm not quite sure how they work), execute them in a context, and then look into that context and invoke a specific function and/or object property of the type function
[09:43:27] <tag> I'm not having much luck figuring out how to do that although I know it has to be possible
[09:43:50] <delvinj> do you have the latest release
[09:43:51] <delvinj> ?
[09:44:00] <tag> yeah
[09:44:13] <tag> I think, or the one right before that
[09:44:16] <tag> 1.6 r2
[09:44:18] <cHaoTiCa> have you looked at the class files it generates?
[09:44:25] <delvinj> http://www.mozilla.org/rhino/doc.html
[09:44:31] <Xgc> cHaoTiCa: The truth is the relative fastness or slowness is rarely an issue for the majority of people.  In fact, most have absolutely no idea what performance is required and will never attempt to determine it.
[09:44:38] <delvinj> there are a bunch of examples there
[09:44:38] <tag> yeah thats the latest
[09:44:56] <tag> delvinj: I have that on my hard drive obviously
[09:45:18] <tag> I'm still not having much luck with it though.
[09:45:49] <tag> (I'm using rhino for a few other things successfully, but I'm not having any luck extracting how do to this specific thing from the documentation)
[09:45:57] <Xgc> But it's much easier for them to hang their hat on some nebulous slowness factor than to admit they wouldn't know how to construct a system with anything more complex than ASM (or C in this case).  They actually have a problem constructing any reasonable structure, even with C.
[09:45:57] <cHaoTiCa> Xgc....performance isn't as much as an issue because we have cpus that execute billions of instructions per second.  :)  but apps are still a lot slower than they have to be
[09:47:15] <Xgc> There is so much the average professional needs to learn before they can understand the real issues, it's almost impossible to even hold a conversation with them.
[09:47:36] <cHaoTiCa> imagine if all the time wasted using big, clunky structures and slow algorithms was instead spent on actually performing the task at hand.  :)
[09:48:46] <Clackwell> when performing the task at hand, do you take the time to come up with "better" algorithms?
[09:48:55] <Clackwell> or do you rather use the first one that comes to your mind?
[09:49:05] <Clackwell> (or use the default stuff provided by others)
[09:49:07] <Xgc> cHaoTiCa: It's interesting to consider how much real work would be done if people didn't spend all their time trying to understand a pointer and how to use it safely (as safe as possible, that is).
[09:49:09] <cHaoTiCa> when i see a better way, yes
[09:49:23] <Clackwell> how much time do you spend on seeing a better way?
[09:49:27] <tag> shit
[09:49:36] <tag> I guess I could just do an eval
[09:49:38] <tag> heh
[09:49:58] <cHaoTiCa> Clackwell...probably a little too much :)
[09:50:07] <Clackwell> AHA, busted!
[09:51:17] <Xgc> Clackwell: Well, usually we're able to pick the most reasonable algorithms from the basket we know well.  The problem is when a significant advantage can be obtained by using an algorithm we don't yet have in our basket.
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[09:52:00] <Xgc> When do you stop looking before the first or second design/implementation is the question.
[09:52:00] <vman_____> anyone here work with junit before? when i spawn a thread from a test method in my junit test suite, can i still do assert and fail functions?
[09:52:02] <cHaoTiCa> i'm not saying it's always a good idea to look for the fastest way to do every little thing.  even though i find myself sometimes doing exactly that.  :)  but most people don't even try
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[09:52:44] <Xgc> cHaoTiCa: it's hard to win the *fastest* battle.  New ideas / ways are found all the time.
[09:53:18] <cHaoTiCa> yeah.  doesn't make me feel any less inclined, though.  :)
[09:53:40] <Xgc> Spending time to find something that you won't know for another 5 years is often not a good use of time.
[09:54:27] <cHaoTiCa> i know.  it's one of the things that sometimes slows me down
[09:54:29] <Xgc> I agree.  Most people have a very hard time looking slightly outside the box for new ways to solve a problem.
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[09:56:44] <cHaoTiCa> if they could peek outside the box, the world might be a better place for it.  :)  at the very least, i wouldn't have to wait 30 seconds for a program to pop up a window
[10:04:40] <tag> I wonder how slow javamail is
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[10:06:17] <Timmy01> Can someone please help me understand why im getting a NotYetConnected Exception..
[10:06:40] <ernimril> Timmy01: pastebin?
[10:06:45] <cHaoTiCa> probably cause you're not yet connected.  just a wild guess.  :)
[10:06:45] <Timmy01> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/5IZvSr79.html <--- server
[10:06:49] <Timmy01> yeah
[10:07:09] <Timmy01> but ive got a println with .isConnected() and im returning true
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[10:07:39] <ernimril> Timmy01: where is the error? in the client?
[10:07:44] <Timmy01> but then out.write(); gives me a not yet connect exception
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[10:08:04] <Timmy01> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/jox82312.html <---client
[10:08:09] <Timmy01> yeah, it's in the client
[10:08:51] <ernimril> Timmy01: you call connect on a socketchannel that is non-blocking....
[10:09:16] <ernimril> Timmy01: that means that you have to call finishConnect() when the socketchannel is ready for it
[10:09:41] <Timmy01> :o
[10:10:29] <ernimril> Timmy01: in non-blocking mode connect can sometimes connect directly, check the return value
[10:10:49] <ernimril> Timmy01: and read the javadoc, it tells you all you need
[10:11:46] <ernimril> Timmy01: or just have the channel in blocking mode when you call connect
[10:12:42] <ernimril> Timmy01: why do you have non-blocking on? your code is written for blocking mode
[10:13:17] <cHaoTiCa> i was wondering where he intenheh to check for non-writes and non-reads :)
[10:13:23] <cHaoTiCa> intended too
[10:13:52] <Timmy01> honestly im not sure, i thought non-blocking ment you could multiple sockets connected to the server..
[10:14:18] <cHaoTiCa> you can have multiple sockets connected either way
[10:14:31] <Timmy01> brb gona read up on blocking
[10:14:34] <cHaoTiCa> the difference is in how you handle those connections
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[10:16:38] <Timmy01> will finishConnect() keep the connection open?
[10:17:09] <ernimril> Timmy01: is the method name close()?
[10:17:11] <cHaoTiCa> whatcha mean, keep it open?  it won't be truly open til you call it :)
[10:17:36] <Timmy01> haha just tested it
[10:17:57] <Timmy01> now servers telling me im recieving.. but i dno if it really is :S but now im closer
[10:18:05] <Timmy01> thanks :_
[10:18:07] <Timmy01> :)*
[10:18:13] <ernimril> Timmy01: note that you can not just insert a call to finishConnect, you need to wait for it...
[10:18:30] <Timmy01> :/
[10:18:31] <ernimril> Timmy01: as in the selector needs to call select()
[10:18:48] <Timmy01> o
[10:18:55] <cHaoTiCa> or, change to blocking mode for the client :)
[10:19:04] <ernimril> Timmy01: it can quite possibly work for you in a simple test, but it will not work in a real program...
[10:21:28] <Timmy01> hmm so what does blcoking acually do?
[10:21:37] <Timmy01> blocking*
[10:21:51] <cybereal> Timmy01: Learn about sockets
[10:22:17] <cHaoTiCa> it tells the jvm to pause til the action you're doing is somewhat done
[10:22:52] <cHaoTiCa> rather, suspend the thread that's doing the action
[10:23:01] <cHaoTiCa> other threads can still run
[10:23:36] *** Storkme is now known as Stork
[10:25:30] <cybereal> Timmy01: in blocking mode a call to connect() or read() or anything else will not return until something has happened, success or failure, but in non-blocking mode, the calls return immediately and everything works a little funny.  If you can avoid non-blocking mode, everything seems to work a little easier.  If you can't then either learn about asynchronous design or about non-blocking sockets behavior.  I guess there's also the extra th
[10:25:30] <cybereal> :)
[10:26:12] <cHaoTiCa> with blocking, you can't generally be guaranteed that all of what you were receiving or sending will sent or received...but when the call returns, you can be guaranteed that what you wanted done was done to some degree :)
[10:27:16] <Stork> what's a SocketChannel?
[10:27:33] <Clackwell> api docs will know
[10:27:38] <Stork> fair enough
[10:27:43] <Stork> i'll check
[10:27:45] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[10:28:05] <Timmy01> ah, so with non blocking it'll let you if your file's been sucessfully recieved or not
[10:28:34] <Clackwell> Timmy01: or if the next byte/chunk is available for processing
[10:28:43] <Clackwell> (without blocking)
[10:29:35] <Timmy01> yeah, which would make sure all the packets get sent accross the network, and if it doesnt it would re-send
[10:30:13] <cHaoTiCa> without blocking, you have to check the socket occasionally, or try to read() from or write() to it, before you know whether you can
[10:30:53] <cHaoTiCa> blocking lets you lean more against the vm, and saves cpu time in the process :)
[10:32:29] <cybereal> you should be able to select() the socket to find out if it can be read, to save cpu time
[10:32:35] <cybereal> dunno about how you do that in java though
[10:32:59] <cHaoTiCa> not if it's in non-blocking mode, iirc
[10:33:30] <cybereal> hm maybe you're right, like I said, dunno about java's handling of such things
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[10:33:40] <cHaoTiCa> with nio, you register channels with a Selector and then call its select() method
[10:33:42] <cybereal> I do know that non-blocking sockets are more trouble than they're worth
[10:33:55] <cybereal> sounds like what I'm talking about
[10:34:02] <cybereal> in a more complicated manner
[10:34:57] <cybereal> in posix there is a select() function that you can pass some array of file descriptors or socket descriptors and it will return if any are readable, or you can set a delay and it wil return then too, and it returns those that are readable... though I don't know exactly how it works as I've only used it through python's minor abstraction layer
[10:35:15] <cybereal> on windows they provide that method as part of the winsock library, and it only works on sockets
[10:35:32] <cybereal> but not in win95/98/ME
[10:36:06] <Stork> so a socketchannel is used for heavy i/o ?
[10:36:14] <cHaoTiCa> on windows, asynchronous i/o generally works better anyway :)
[10:36:58] <cybereal> pft on windows IO sucks :)
[10:37:19] <cHaoTiCa> winsock can be told to watch a socket and post messages when a socket is ready to read, write, connect, etc
[10:38:26] <cHaoTiCa> somewhat like the aio stuff in linux, except that signals are more intrusive than messages :)
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[10:38:30] <GaWaiNe> Hi
[10:38:45] <GaWaiNe> Is a there a way to create a tray icon of a swing application ?
[10:39:04] <cHaoTiCa> probably :)
[10:39:10] <cybereal> ~jdic
[10:39:10] <javabot> cybereal, jdic is The JDesktop Integration Components. It aims to make Java applications properly fit into current desktop platforms without sacrificing platform independence. See https://jdic.dev.java.net/
[10:39:20] <cHaoTiCa> i mean' limewire has one :)
[10:39:26] <cybereal> jdic is the way to do it
[10:39:39] <cybereal> since the part for trayicons has been accepted as a jsr for future java version
[10:39:47] <GaWaiNe> tnx :)
[10:40:06] <Timmy01> cHaoTiCa, just wondering.. how long have you been programming for?
[10:41:55] <cHaoTiCa> java, or everything? :)
[10:41:58] <Stork> can java get your remote ip address?
[10:42:13] <Stork> what i'd usually do is connect to a php site to get it
[10:42:14] <Timmy01> everything
[10:42:22] <cybereal> Stork: what?
[10:42:32] <Stork> can java get your remote ip address?
[10:42:37] <cHaoTiCa> between 15 and 20 years :)
[10:42:42] <cybereal> "your remote ip address" that doesn't make any sense
[10:42:47] <Stork> well
[10:43:05] <cHaoTiCa> cybereal....he's probably behind a nat or something
[10:43:06] <Stork> your ip address, not the one on the network, but the one you're connected to the internet with
[10:43:08] <cybereal> Stork: No, java can't get what you're looking for
[10:43:13] <Stork> oh, alright
[10:43:34] <Timmy01> wow, thats a lot of programming
[10:43:50] <cybereal> I'm in year 15 now
[10:44:09] <cybereal> only serious about it for about 10 though
[10:44:34] <cHaoTiCa> it's only been in the past 3 years or so that i got paid for it :)
[10:44:48] <cybereal> yeah I just barely hit 2 years of being paid to code
[10:45:05] <Timmy01> lol wow, that's awsome
[10:46:04] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[10:46:24] <cHaoTiCa> ya know, it doesn't seem like that much time til ya type it out :)
[10:47:33] <cHaoTiCa> i feel old now :)
[10:47:49] <cHaoTiCa> brb drinks :)
[10:47:52] <cybereal> It still doesn't seem like that much time to me, since it has always been a hobby like riding a bike
[10:47:56] <cybereal> or watching tv
[10:48:10] <Timmy01> lol, cant imagine the day i hit 10 years programming :P
[10:48:50] <cybereal> How old are you?
[10:49:24] <Timmy01> 20 in jan
[10:49:34] <cybereal> hm I'm only 23
[10:49:40] <Timmy01> :|
[10:49:48] <Timmy01> started young
[10:49:54] <cybereal> I remember when I was 12 my parents said I'd never "be able to get a job with any of the crap you're doing on that computer." heh
[10:49:55] <cybereal> idiots
[10:49:59] <cHaoTiCa> it's always been a hobby to me, except for the times i get annoyed at a piece of code and still have to finish it cause i'm getting paid to :)
[10:50:01] <Timmy01> lol
[10:50:04] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[10:50:16] <cHaoTiCa> my stepdad said the same thing
[10:50:27] <cybereal> cHaoTiCa: yeah I still mentally separate my job work from my hobby work... I usually use a different language for hobby stuff just to help that mental divide
[10:50:29] <cHaoTiCa> but my mom was really supportive
[10:51:02] <cybereal> sadly my hobby stuff is almost always more sophisticated than my paid work but oh well :)
[10:51:04] <Timmy01> chaotica: are you american?
[10:51:15] <cHaoTiCa> same here, for the most part.....though they've started cetting me to work on .net stuff at work :)
[10:51:21] <cHaoTiCa> yup
[10:51:39] <cHaoTiCa> s/cetting/getting/
[10:51:49] <Timmy01> :P could tell from the way you wrote mum
[10:51:51] <Timmy01> ^_^
[10:52:04] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[10:52:26] <cHaoTiCa> i can't help that foreigners don't know how to say "mom" :)
[10:52:32] <cybereal> heh
[10:52:47] <Timmy01> lol
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[10:56:06] <cybereal> *sigh* I think I'll sleep now... g/f tired me out earlier
[10:56:38] <Stork> ooh
[10:56:58] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[10:57:34] <Timmy01> g'nyt cybereal, thanks for the info =]
[10:58:09] <cybereal> g'night
[10:58:36] <Stork> what he said^
[10:58:57] <cHaoTiCa> night :)
[10:59:07] <cHaoTiCa> sorry
[10:59:21] <cHaoTiCa> checking out the jdic stuff
[11:05:28] <cHaoTiCa> still doesn't look like windows :)
[11:06:50] <cHaoTiCa> course, i have what is apparently a strange set of colors
[11:07:17] <cHaoTiCa> so that might affect how decent it looks :)
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[11:56:09] <[algo]> I want a collection with methods "add(Object)" - to add object, "get_insert_id()" - to get index of last added object
[11:56:13] <[algo]> what should I use ?
[11:56:24] <[algo]> add could return index also...
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[12:03:52] <ThEGuRu> hi there
[12:04:24] <ThEGuRu> could someone kindly point out as to which channel i might get some help
[12:04:33] <ThEGuRu> for scripting
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[12:36:04] <delvinj> d'oh
[12:36:11] <delvinj> 5:30am again
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[13:51:46] <gdandy> Is it safe to load properties file via this.getClass().getResource()?
[13:51:51] <gdandy> Or should I use the context class loader?
[13:52:06] <ricky_clarkson> Moin.
[13:52:38] <fforw> tach
[13:52:39] <gdandy> ricky_clarkson: Was that for me?
[13:52:43] <gdandy> I guess not
[13:52:57] <ricky_clarkson> It's a greeting.
[13:53:11] <Stork> hi ricky
[13:53:23] <bpalmer> it's also a Frisian language
[13:53:34] <bpalmer> d'oh, nope, misread
[13:53:39] <ricky_clarkson> I'm cold too.
[13:53:41] * bpalmer skulks away in shame
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[14:34:34] <Xgc> gdandy: Sure.  Why not?
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[14:38:44] <Peter> i recently reinstalled jcreator and now whenever i compile applications it errors out on compiling
[14:39:02] <Peter> "Exception in Thread.."
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[14:39:09] <delvinj> that is unfortunate
[14:39:16] <delvinj> use a different editor =)
[14:39:24] <Peter> bah
[14:39:26] <Peter> silly mistake
[14:39:28] <Peter> nvm :>
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[15:06:39] <Flice> hey
[15:06:56] <Flice> I need help with Hibernate. the guys on #hibernate don't seem to be there
[15:07:06] <Flice> I have a 1-to-many relation between table A and table B. now, I want in a certain place of code to list records from table A and only count(*) of their respective records in table B, not the records themselves. what is the efficient and natural to Hibernate way to do this?
[15:10:02] <Flice> on the same topic - what happens, when I list records in 1-to-many table with "prefetching" behavior turned off and then call size() on the list of its associated B records? would it fetch the records or send the server select count(*) ?
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[15:21:45] <Flice> ...
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[15:28:46] <Stork> .t
[15:28:55] <Stork> oops :\
[15:29:14] * delvinj flogs Stork
[15:29:23] <Stork> :(
[15:29:25] <Stork> i meant /t
[15:29:36] <delvinj> sorry i thought you would enjoy the flogging
[15:32:16] <Stork> oh i did
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[15:34:48] <Drone> View csaba's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8352
[15:34:50] * Flice is still interested in help with Hibernate...
[15:35:30] <csaba> Can someone explain to me how to make a custom cell renderer for a JTable? I would like to make a table without cell borders...
[15:35:35] <delvinj> csaba: probably shouldnt create textfields
[15:35:37] <delvinj> in a renderer
[15:35:58] <delvinj> you need to create an editor
[15:36:06] <csaba> yes, see my example, I have used a textfield which has "fff" set as its text, so I think all cells should display that text, but they don't
[15:36:10] <csaba> what am I doing wrong here?
[15:36:13] <csaba> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8352
[15:36:34] <delvinj> don't create components inside a renderer body
[15:36:52] <delvinj> checkout tableCellEditor
[15:36:59] <csaba> ok
[15:37:46] <delvinj> getting rid of the borders should be pretty easy after getting it to work
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[15:44:16] <Terr1> How do you get an event when you click on a JTabbedPane? you cant add an ActionListener? so how do you do something when its selected(clicked)?
[15:44:38] <delvinj> its another kind of listener
[15:45:17] <delvinj> http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/events/eventsandcomponents.html#many
[15:45:23] <delvinj> thats a good bookmrk
[15:45:27] <Stork> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8351
[15:45:47] <Stork> i'm trying to make the main loop return a value which determains when that method is called again
[15:45:53] <Stork> but i can't get it to return the value :\
[15:45:58] <Stork> hopefully someone can help me
[15:46:41] <delvinj> Stork: are you trying to block
[15:46:42] <delvinj> ?
[15:46:49] <Stork> block?
[15:47:01] <Drone> View csaba's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8353
[15:47:28] <csaba> I tried this but it still doesn't work... :(
[15:47:29] <delvinj> csaba: check out the tutorial on sun's site
[15:47:35] <delvinj> you don't need all those methods
[15:47:38] <Stork> forget it, mine works
[15:47:40] <Stork> sorry
[15:47:43] <delvinj> there a default implemetnation
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[15:50:49] <PPSD> hi
[15:51:39] <PPSD> when i do a    if (a || b)   and a is false, b won't be evaluated anymore... i think this is called shortcutting... is it supported by all java implementations?
[15:51:51] <delvinj> yup
[15:51:53] <PPSD> sorry:    if (a && b)   of course
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[15:51:56] <eythian> PPSD: iirc, it's standard
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[15:52:17] <PPSD> ok thank you
[15:52:22] <eythian> PPSD: and, it's called short circuit evaluation
[15:52:42] <PPSD> oh yea , now i recall the german word, that makes more sense than shortcutting
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[16:03:10] * Flice is still seeking help with a Hibernate problem..
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[16:30:06] 
[16:31:29] <axxo> safe it as latin-1
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[16:31:39] <axxo> or convert those to the utf-8 chars
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[16:33:41] <minisu> I use Textpad, and there are no options to save in latin-1 encoding. don't want to mess up the code with utf-8 replacements
[16:34:06] <minisu> do you know a good editor that supports latin-1 output?
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[16:41:49] <diro> minisu : yeah, jEdit does
[16:42:03] <diro> latin-1 = ISO 8859-1
[16:42:22] <delvinj> jedit
[16:42:29] <diro> btw, jedit really rocks!
[16:42:41] <delvinj> hul yzzl
[16:43:42] <minisu> thanks, will try that
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[17:07:10] <minisu> Tried ISO 8859-1 in jedit, same error :(
[17:07:23] <diro> hhmm
[17:07:36] <diro> cannot help you more than that... ISO 8859-1 is latin-1
[17:08:17] <diro> Im sorry
[17:08:42] <diro> whats the error exactly?
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[17:10:44] 
[17:11:29] <minisu> Happens in ISO 8859-1 and ANSI. In utf-8 the outputted characters are even stranger.
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[17:13:41] <diro> on what platform are you working?
[17:13:59] <diro> which OS I should ask
[17:14:45] <diro> thats a common problem
[17:15:04] <diro> if the encoding used by your OS is different from the one used in your editor, you'll get that problem
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[17:15:36] <diro> and as soon as you'll change platform (like going from windows to macosx for instance) you'll also get that problem
[17:15:54] <diro> there's probably a workaround, but Im not aware of it... If you get the info, tell me!
[17:18:08] <minisu> Windows XP
[17:18:18] <minisu> Did not change platform
[17:18:48] <minisu> Using scandinavian (swedish) OS language
[17:18:55] <diro> kk
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[17:19:13] <diro> you should try to find out which encoding is used in the "windows' console"
[17:19:20] <diro> and use that one in your editor
[17:19:29] <minisu> ok
[17:20:03] <diro> thats as far as I can help... theres probably a guru around that could help you much more
[17:22:15] <minisu> there always is, somewhere :) thank you anyway, I'll let you know if it works out with the console encoding
[17:22:58] <diro> ok, perfect
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[17:36:58] <dkg> hi
[17:37:09] <dkg> helma users/developers around?
[17:38:09] <SmashCat> Hello, anyone have an example of how to get a value back out of a HashMap? For example, if I use "m.put("fred",1); m.get("fred");" I get an error as it requires an int as the argument to get()?!
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[17:47:35] <SmashCat> Ah I see, you can't store an int as a value in a HashMap... Pretty lame... Looks like casting ahoy again ;-)
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[17:48:10] * SmashCat thinks: No wonder Java is slow...
[17:49:19] <cHao_sl33pz> heh.
[17:49:27] *** cHao_sl33pz is now known as cHaoTiCa
[17:50:11] <cHaoTiCa> you can't store an int....but you can store an Integer :)
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[17:51:49] <cHaoTiCa> and if you're using v1.5, you can use generics and autoboxing to minimize casting
[17:53:54] <cHaoTiCa> i can do...   HashMap<String, Integer> hm = new HashMap<String, Integer>(); hm.put("heh", 3); int i = hm.get("heh");  // :)
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[18:02:27] <d0gf> SmashCat: you might want to check out GNU trove
[18:03:06] <d0gf> and java is not slow
[18:03:26] <cHaoTiCa> developers are slow :)
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[18:04:25] <d0gf> and JVMs
[18:05:33] <cHaoTiCa> jvms not so much these days
[18:06:16] <cHaoTiCa> even sun's runs pretty fast if your code is decent
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[18:08:08] <d0gf> i'm not saying that every JVM is slow, I'm that if an app is slow then it's either slow jvm or bad code
[18:08:11] <d0gf> or both
[18:08:28] <d0gf> I'm saying that*
[18:09:22] <linuxfreck> but with modern jvms, it's usually bad code
[18:23:15] <b14ck> A String can be 'null' right? Like: String test; if (test.equals(null)) {...} ?
[18:23:50] <cHaoTiCa> that'll break....but if (test == null) will work
[18:23:59] <b14ck> Excellent :)
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[18:29:00] <terence_> hi
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[18:29:10] <cHaoTiCa> hya
[18:29:55] <terence_> Does someone know a distribution java testing component (e.g. uniform,zipf)?
[18:30:10] <b14ck> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/DiuRrx22.html <-- can someone help me out with this?
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[18:31:44] <Flice> anyone can give me a hand with Hibernate?
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[18:31:53] <Drone> View jmelloy's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8355
[18:32:09] <jmelloy> Is there any way to do that without instantiating fe?
[18:32:25] <ramza3> Flice: I can't but I am sure if you ask your question, somebody will help you, or try #hibernate
[18:32:41] <Flice> ramza3: #hibernate keeps silent, unfortunately
[18:32:53] <ramza3> Flice: try advice tip number 1
[18:32:55] <Flice> I have a 1-to-many relation between table A and table B. now, I want in a certain place of code to list records from table A and only count(*) of their respective records in table B, not the records themselves. what is the efficient and natural to Hibernate way of doing this?
[18:32:55] <Stork> what's hibernate?
[18:33:05] <Clackwell> hallo everyone
[18:33:20] <cHaoTiCa> b14ck...there's no JBot.getData(...)
[18:33:28] <Clackwell> b14ck: post the error
[18:33:48] <b14ck> cHaoTiCa, I was calling the getData() from Client.java
[18:34:08] <SmashCat> Back now... Yes, I have to hold thousands of ints in a hashmap - I am casting to Integer, then casting back to int whenever I pull values out. So it's hundreds of thousands of casts - if an int could be stored, it would be zero casts ;-)
[18:34:13] <b14ck> And the error I get is "cannot find symbol"
[18:34:42] <jmelloy> Flice: I would do it with a join and a count(*) but don't know how to do it in hibernate
[18:34:45] <cHaoTiCa> no you're not -- there's no object in front of getData, so java assumes you mean the one in JBot
[18:34:52] <Clackwell> b14ck: copy and paste the complete error message to pastebin please
[18:35:03] <b14ck> Clackwell, that is the complete error message.
[18:35:07] * Clackwell notes that it still takes several attempts to get all obvious information from askees
[18:35:11] <Clackwell> b14ck: you are lying
[18:35:18] <Flice> jmelloy: thanks. this one is easy to figure out =)
[18:35:20] <b14ck> cHaoTiCa, so I would have to do: Client.getData()?
[18:35:31] <Flice> jmelloy: the question is whether there's a better way with hibernate
[18:35:34] <b14ck> Clackwell, "No help available for this message..."
[18:35:35] <cHaoTiCa> better, Server.getData()
[18:35:36] <jmelloy> Right.
[18:35:41] <jmelloy> And I don't know.
[18:35:42] <jmelloy> :D
[18:35:50] <cHaoTiCa> since Server is the Client you created :)
[18:35:54] * Clackwell gives up
[18:36:02] <b14ck> :D
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[18:36:33] <ramza3> Flice: not efficient, but cant you just get the records and then process the results through Java, with List.size()?
[18:36:43] <SmashCat> I find that Java is much slower than compiled apps - especially with GUI stuff. Netbeans becomes almost unusably slow with even medium sized projects on my XP3200 with 1GB RAM here.
[18:36:59] <Flice> ramza3: I can, but it's really not efficient
[18:37:17] <Flice> so I kinda want the size() to be already initialized
[18:37:20] <Clackwell> SmashCat: do you know the saying about that one bad apple?
[18:37:27] <Flice> so it won't cause additional select
[18:37:31] <cHaoTiCa> netbeans is a pig :)
[18:37:36] <Clackwell> it is a big bunch of bad apples, in the java world. still, there are good apples.
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[18:38:05] * Flice thinks that someone is spreading FUD
[18:38:14] <jmelloy> Netbeans has been fine for me, but my projects might not be big enough to get it to sputter.
[18:38:17] <ramza3> Flice: it is probably somewhere in the HQL, if you look at the HQL TESTs in hibernate, I am sure there is something in there( try the hibernate 3.0 tests)
[18:38:32] <Flice> ramza3: thanks. will do
[18:38:51] <Flice> NetBeans is cool. especially the 4.1 and more so the upcoming 5.0
[18:39:07] <SmashCat> jmelloy: A also tried to use it on my Mac with OSX (pretty slow G4), it took nearly 2 minutes to open ;-) I decided not to continue after that ;-)
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[18:39:15] <Clackwell> coolness != performance
[18:39:35] <jmelloy> SmashCat: yeah, it takes a little while to open on my machine (OS X, 1 ghz) but after it gets open it's fine
[18:39:38] <Clackwell> Flice: that aside, even the netbeans folks had to agree that netbeans' performance was a bit dubious in pre 4.x times.
[18:39:41] <jmelloy> takes awhile to close, too
[18:40:37] <Clackwell> with a 3 ghz machine with 1 gb of ram you have to wonder about the definition of "medium size projects".
[18:40:50] <Clackwell> (and wether the machine is swapping itself to slow death)
[18:41:02] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[18:41:13] <SmashCat> jmelloy: I still use it on my PC, as it's really convenient for mobile development, and it's quick enough on smallish stuff, but when you start having big .java files open in tabs my machine is hitting 100% CPU ;-)
[18:41:31] * ramza3 trys out grinder...
[18:41:33] <Clackwell> SmashCat: define "big"?
[18:41:44] <mohadib> not small
[18:41:50] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[18:41:50] <SmashCat> Clackwell: Couple thousand lines per file
[18:42:03] <jmelloy> bigger than a breadbox
[18:42:36] <Clackwell> SmashCat: netbeans hogs cpu cycles when opening a single file with a couple thousand lines?
[18:42:49] <Clackwell> SmashCat: or do you have to open a bunch of them to have the effect?
[18:43:01] <SmashCat> Clackwell: No, as I said above, with several files open in tabs (say 10-15 files)
[18:43:17] <Clackwell> SmashCat: sounds as if it sucks.
[18:43:44] <jmelloy> So a couple weeks ago I played aroudn with Ruby on Rails ... and now that I'm back working iwth JSP I find myself implementing a lot of the nice stuff it does
[18:43:47] <SmashCat> Clackwell: What, Netbeans or Java?
[18:44:09] <mohadib> netbeans
[18:44:36] <Clackwell> SmashCat: netbeans. 10 to 20 files with 5000+ lines each open in jedit at work all day, and there is no performance hit or cpu hogging.
[18:44:49] <Clackwell> +i have
[18:45:41] <SmashCat> Clackwell: Probably a lot of CPU is spent as it is constantly hilighting syntax, throwing up method options and other stuff as you type. So the bigger the project, the more references it has to keep checking all the time.
[18:46:09] <Clackwell> SmashCat: jedit does syntax highlighting too, on all files. i'd summarize it as "it sucks". :)
[18:46:13] <Clackwell> (netbeans, that is.)
[18:46:30] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[18:46:54] <Clackwell> SmashCat: but then again, one should have been surprised would they have fixed all performance problems that quickly.
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[18:47:18] <Clackwell> (the netbeans developers, that is, not the sun java vm engineers.)
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[18:48:04] <SmashCat> Clackwell: Yeah, it's more than just highlighting - it throws up subwindows with documentation (created using javadoc from your project, and java docs), so you can scroll and doubleclick to add code etc. It also immediately notifies you if you've added/amended a line and some parameter passed to a method is wrong etc. That's where the time is going I think...
[18:48:38] <Clackwell> SmashCat: it has to do these things regardless of how many files are open, doesn't it?
[18:48:52] <Clackwell> and regardless of the length of these files, too.
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[18:49:22] <SmashCat> Clackwell: Yeah, so if you have a project with 30 files, it needs to keep track of all the classes and methods to ensure it can notify you about things as you work
[18:49:47] <Clackwell> SmashCat: oh, i thought files opened are the issue...
[18:50:18] <SmashCat> Clackwell: No, I doubt it's a memory issue, just the processing involved in the GUI...
[18:50:21] <Clackwell> SmashCat: but anyway, it would be a pretty stupid software if it would keep scanning those files over and over again, wouldn't it?
[18:50:45] <Clackwell> SmashCat: i very much doubt that the GUI lib is the bottleneck. it isn't in jedit and other apps.
[18:51:14] <SmashCat> Clackwell: Yeah, it obviously scans the files at startup to learn the params and return types from methods, then only worries about the line you're editing. Still slow though
[18:52:11] <Clackwell> SmashCat: yeah, but there is no reason to be slow after the inital work has been done, right? the netbeans team screwed up as far as i am concerned.
[18:54:02] <SmashCat> Clackwell: Well I've tried other IDEs in Java in the past that have been slow too. Netbeans is not alone. I think one was some Java IDE from Borland years ago...
[18:54:30] <Clackwell> SmashCat: i recall that cars sucked too, years ago.
[18:54:50] <Clackwell> so in conclusion all cars must suck these days, if i manage to find a single car that sucks?
[18:55:20] <SmashCat> Well, in my case I've yet to see a decent sized Java app with GUI that performs well.
[18:55:31] <Clackwell> as i said before, many bad apples in the java world. hard to avoid jumping to the conclusion that all apples must be bad.
[18:55:46] <Clackwell> SmashCat: jedit, idea
[18:56:39] <SmashCat> I only use Java for mobile phone stuff and some faceless server daemons, personally.
[18:56:39] <jmelloy> Yes, yes, they're all a steaming pile of crap.
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[18:56:50] <Clackwell> you can pin a lot on the swing gui lib, but misuse of the api and internal fuckups in other parts of applications shouldn't be, i think, in all fairness.
[18:57:36] <SmashCat> jedit is just a text editor, isn't it? That's not what I'd call a decent sized application. I'm thinking maybe word processor, spreadsheet, email client, web browser etc.
[18:57:42] <Clackwell> the netbeans and jbuilder folks fuck up good on the past. let them fix their products prior to using their ill-programmed products as typical examples of java applications.
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[18:58:18] <jmelloy> heh
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[18:58:24] <jmelloy> speaking of a netbeans fuckup, I just lost my cursor.
[18:58:42] <Clackwell> SmashCat: why does size matter? your claim is that java + gui (swing only? or all gui toolkits for java?) == slow.
[18:58:43] <SmashCat> jmelloy: It'll catch up with you later...
[18:58:51] <Clackwell> nevermind
[18:59:34] <Clackwell> better java proponents have fought this battle, and lost. :)
[18:59:56] <SmashCat> I think that Swing is a big reason it's slow as a GUI tool. I used AWT over 10 years ago and that felt snappy even on the slow old PC I had back then
[19:00:05] <jmelloy> whoo!
[19:00:07] * jmelloy can type again!
[19:00:18] * Clackwell notes that IDEA hasn't been mentioned again anymore
[19:00:36] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[19:00:54] * SmashCat doesn't actually know anything about idea!
[19:01:50] * jmelloy knows the name
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[19:05:53] <Clackwell> gui app without heavy lifting == performance ok, gui app with heavy lifting == performance not ok, conclusion: blame it on the gui!
[19:06:04] <Clackwell> there's logic.
[19:07:45] <jmelloy> there's no pleasing some people
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[19:11:55] <j1gabyt3> hello
[19:12:15] <j1gabyt3> anyone can help me with findInLine
[19:12:21] <j1gabyt3> here is my code
[19:12:51] <Drone> View j1gabyt3's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8356
[19:12:53] <cHaoTiCa> paste it here and get kicked :)
[19:13:06] <j1gabyt3> hi chaotica
[19:13:12] <cHaoTiCa> dya
[19:13:15] <cHaoTiCa> hya too
[19:13:27] <j1gabyt3> i think you helped me last time with random numbers
[19:13:29] <j1gabyt3> hehe
[19:13:41] <j1gabyt3> you know the zero seed
[19:13:43] <j1gabyt3> anyways
[19:13:44] <cHaoTiCa> sounds familiar :)
[19:13:54] <j1gabyt3> how's it going
[19:14:46] <cHaoTiCa> it's going :)
[19:14:52] <j1gabyt3> good good
[19:15:02] <cHaoTiCa> so...ummm....you're learning about Scanners now?
[19:15:09] <j1gabyt3> yup
[19:15:14] <j1gabyt3> iterators and loops
[19:15:20] <cHaoTiCa> figured
[19:15:26] <cHaoTiCa> you're ODing on 'em :)
[19:15:36] <j1gabyt3> almost
[19:15:38] <j1gabyt3> getting there
[19:16:08] <j1gabyt3> ya have you seen my findInLine condition
[19:16:19] <j1gabyt3> i don't know how to search for a specific pattern
[19:18:16] <j1gabyt3> say I have a line in the file stats.dat    like
[19:18:17] <j1gabyt3> Barry Bands,h,h,w,o,o,o,w,h,o,o,h,h,o,o,w,w,w,h,o,o
[19:19:00] <j1gabyt3> lineScan = new Scanner (statLine);
[19:19:00] <j1gabyt3> 			lineScan.useDelimiter(",");
[19:19:02] <cHaoTiCa> why are you bothering?  you can loop over every token in the line and only count it if token.equals("h")  :)
[19:19:41] <cHaoTiCa> ^as a hit
[19:19:42] <j1gabyt3> oh
[19:20:02] <cHaoTiCa> or count it as an out if it equals("o")
[19:20:06] <j1gabyt3> so i can make if (token.equals("h")) hitCount++
[19:20:33] <j1gabyt3> so no need for findinline
[19:20:35] <cHaoTiCa> use you own variable names, but yeah :)
[19:20:35] <j1gabyt3> let me try
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[19:23:52] <d03boy> hi
[19:24:06] <cHaoTiCa> hya
[19:24:32] <j1gabyt3> hmm
[19:24:54] <j1gabyt3> the output is white space
[19:25:01] <Amnesiac> hey all
[19:25:05] <j1gabyt3> hello
[19:25:25] <cHaoTiCa> ....
[19:25:29] <cHaoTiCa> repaste :)
[19:25:37] <Drone> View j1gabyt3's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8357
[19:26:08] <j1gabyt3> i just pasted the bottom half code
[19:26:21] <cHaoTiCa> well, you're not printing anything anywhere.  what do you expect? :)
[19:26:55] <j1gabyt3> one second
[19:27:07] <j1gabyt3> i put the stats output outside this while loop
[19:27:21] <j1gabyt3> i try putting it inside loop
[19:27:28] <cHaoTiCa> don't
[19:27:50] <j1gabyt3> uh oh
[19:27:53] <j1gabyt3> inifite
[19:27:58] <j1gabyt3> its going crazy
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[19:28:08] <cHaoTiCa> :)
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[19:29:04] <Erica> Hi!
[19:29:08] <j1gabyt3> hello
[19:29:10] <jmelloy> hi!
[19:29:31] <j1gabyt3> hmm i used the debugger. it seems that i cannot find the h, o, w, or s in the line
[19:30:01] <cHaoTiCa> j1gabyt3....if you're checking the next token, you should grab it from the scanner and use it
[19:30:04] <Erica> guess what
[19:30:06] <Erica> !
[19:30:31] <cHaoTiCa> don't use the whole scanner-- it'll only match ad the end, if ever
[19:30:42] <Erica> I LOVE JAVA, that's WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[19:30:45] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[19:31:00] <j1gabyt3> oh do you
[19:31:06] * Erica gives cHaoTiCa a kiss on the cheek
[19:31:12] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[19:31:29] <j1gabyt3> its love hate for me
[19:32:44] <j1gabyt3> hey chaotica.. i have a question
[19:33:03] <j1gabyt3> like for this line right
[19:33:04] <j1gabyt3> Barry Bands,h,h,w,o,o,o,w,h,o,o,h,h,o,o,w,w,w,h,o,o
[19:33:16] <j1gabyt3> and i used lineScan.useDelimiter(",")
[19:33:32] <j1gabyt3> everytime it scans it can find,,  h  ,  h ,,  w,  o,  o,  and so on
[19:33:48] <j1gabyt3> what can i call h   ,   h   ,   w,   o
[19:34:04] <j1gabyt3> like i read in the book.. hasNext will return true or something
[19:34:05] <cHaoTiCa> except the first time -- the first token will be "Barry Bands"  :)
[19:34:46] <j1gabyt3> the part i dont understand.. when scanner looks for another string after each delimiter
[19:35:00] <j1gabyt3> i dont know how to isolate that specific string
[19:35:06] <j1gabyt3> so i can count it
[19:35:08] <cHaoTiCa> but if hasNext() is true, you have to call next() to get it
[19:35:16] <j1gabyt3> oh i  see
[19:35:38] <j1gabyt3> so lineScan.next() can get one string
[19:35:43] <j1gabyt3> be right back
[19:35:49] <cHaoTiCa> yup
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[19:40:39] <cHaoTiCa> keep in mind that every time you call next(), it pulls a token
[19:40:51] <cHaoTiCa> so don't use it in the ifs
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[19:52:23] <_kmh_> howdy
[19:52:34] <cHaoTiCa> hya :)
[19:52:42] <_kmh_> haha
[19:52:59] <_kmh_> still can't get over that nick ....
[19:53:04] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[19:53:15] <bpalmer> next() being used everywhere is one of the more annoying parts of the java libraries
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[19:53:25] <bpalmer> what I wouldn't give for a nice c++ style iterator
[19:53:36] <_kmh_> bpalmer : move to 1.5

   October 16, 2005  
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