[00:00:04] *** Clackwell has quit IRC
[00:00:29] *** Tartaros has quit IRC
[00:00:37] <davidw> SeJo, I have a feeling that smtp servers tend to keep getting gradually bigger... "just receive an email address"  is easier said than done
[00:00:42] *** cybereal has quit IRC
[00:00:42] <davidw> an email, I mean
[00:01:12] *** rizzo has quit IRC
[00:01:36] <firelord> slava: I'm sure this is a can-o-worms, but what are your thoughts on spring, jboss, hibernate, etc
[00:02:43] <cheeser> "they suck"
[00:02:50] <davidw> ahahahhaha
[00:03:00] <ricky_clarkson> Everything sucks in slava's world.
[00:03:04] <ricky_clarkson> Lucky bastard.
[00:03:07] <mohadib> i have eclipse set to use 1.4 compiler compliance , and i use a 1.5 jdk , eclipse is letting me use getTextContents() on a org.w3c.dom.Node  , this method is not available till 1.5 , anyone know why eclipse doesn't error?
[00:03:45] <firelord> cheeser: your opinion, or slava's?
[00:03:46] *** Torquemada has quit IRC
[00:03:54] <cheeser> not mine.
[00:04:00] <cheeser> i tend to like those.
[00:04:02] *** Blackwell is now known as Clackwell
[00:04:05] *** doc_ has joined ##java
[00:04:17] <firelord> I guess I'm more interested in *why* he thinks they suck?
[00:04:22] <cheeser> "because?"
[00:04:23] <cheeser> 8^)=
[00:04:29] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: Eclipse only cares about language features.
[00:04:33] <ricky_clarkson> Not API.
[00:04:42] <ricky_clarkson> If you want to develop for 1.4, use 1.4.
[00:04:54] <SeJo> davidw: heh probably
[00:04:54] <firelord> cheeser: wow, you've been around slava for awhile :P
[00:04:58] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: i see so the compliance level just makes sure im not using generics , enums etc?
[00:05:04] <ricky_clarkson> Yep.
[00:05:07] <mohadib> ty
[00:06:09] <slava> firelord: because they promote a programming methodology which i do not support
[00:06:27] <firelord> slava: example?
[00:06:35] *** Mazon is now known as mazon
[00:06:47] <firelord> slava: pre-built frameworks?
[00:06:53] <slava> no, code bloat
[00:06:58] <cheeser> mohadib: and there's no notion in the bytecode of when a method came in so it can't tell that you're using 1.5 only method calls.
[00:07:22] <mohadib> cool , thanks
[00:07:47] <firelord> ah. So do you think something like Hibernate could be done well?
[00:07:55] <slava> firelord: i'm all for frameworks/reuse, but not when the functinality to code size ratio is almost zero
[00:08:07] *** carlinhos has joined ##java
[00:08:21] <cheeser> "almost zero"  tee hee hee
[00:11:09] <ricky_clarkson> Actually I think it'd be cool if it was zero.
[00:11:38] <ricky_clarkson> Then you could just give it to an untrained monke.
[00:11:38] <ricky_clarkson> monkey.
[00:11:46] <ricky_clarkson> Sorry, I mean a manager.
[00:11:47] <firelord> ricky_clarkson: well, it is if the package has 0 functionality
[00:12:15] <ricky_clarkson> it is what?
[00:12:26] <mohadib> ready for any user
[00:12:33] <mohadib> it's use free
[00:12:44] <mohadib> like most windows software i see on end users boxes
[00:12:52] <firelord> ricky_clarkson: it is 0
[00:13:01] <firelord> ricky_clarkson: the ratio
[00:13:26] <mohadib> would not good software be 1/1 ?
[00:13:52] <ricky_clarkson> I mean the amount of bespoke code is ideally 0.
[00:14:07] *** doc_ has quit IRC
[00:15:02] <slava> mohadib: with good software the ratio approaches infinity; more functionality from less code
[00:16:44] *** Tartaros has joined ##java
[00:17:13] <davidw> yeah, like perl where you write one line and it is a small operating system with a fancy scheduling algorithm
[00:17:27] *** Lars_G has left ##java
[00:18:30] *** hashman has quit IRC
[00:19:54] <HoNgOuru> how can I cast from string to char ?¡??????
[00:20:00] *** snow_ru has quit IRC
[00:20:05] <cheeser> javabot: tell HoNgOuru about javadoc String
[00:20:06] <javabot> HoNgOuru, please see java.lang.String: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/String.html
[00:20:08] *** littlezoper has left ##java
[00:20:24] <HoNgOuru> downcasting?
[00:20:30] *** jalopy has joined ##java
[00:20:40] *** kinabalu has joined ##java
[00:20:42] <ricky_clarkson> HoNgOuru: You can't.
[00:20:43] <HoNgOuru> I am painted
[00:20:45] <HoNgOuru> ok
[00:20:46] <slava> davidw: no, like spring, where you write 300,000 lines of code to simulate IoC and AOP which a dynamic langauge gives you for free
[00:21:22] *** cored has quit IRC
[00:21:36] <cheeser> slava: have you ever used spring?
[00:21:48] <ricky_clarkson> Painted?
[00:22:00] <HoNgOuru> si loco , estoy re pintado!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[00:22:03] *** carlinhos has left ##java
[00:22:37] <Kallistor> perhaps he means tainted :)
[00:22:39] <slava> cheeser: no, but i've read a lot of material on it, and i still don't know a single case where i'd choose java+spring over a dynamic language.
[00:22:43] <ricky_clarkson> no es vale.
[00:23:12] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: No es va'lido.
[00:23:17] <davidw> so many of those framework things have massive buzzword overload
[00:23:38] <slava> they invent fancy names for simple concepts to sound elitist
[00:23:50] *** lorien420 has joined ##java
[00:23:57] <ricky_clarkson> Like automobile instead of car?
[00:23:59] <davidw> slava, you should read "the innovator's dilemma"
[00:24:05] *** fandeholly has quit IRC
[00:24:09] <davidw> ahahhahaha I heard a great one...
[00:24:46] <davidw> we went out to dinner with this guy and his wife - she is a complete chatterbox, and a bit full of herself, always talking about how great, how fantastic, how much, blah blah blah
[00:24:58] * ricky_clarkson makes a FAO layer (Framework Abstraction Objects).
[00:25:19] <ricky_clarkson> Maybe I could call it a FAPOJO.
[00:25:30] <cheeser> slava: so you're critisizing it having never used it...
[00:25:31] <davidw> so she's telling us about the family hosting her daughter as an exchange student in the states... I ask what they do (they live in a small town... can't be much)
[00:25:38] <ricky_clarkson> JAPOJOEEBean.
[00:25:40] <cheeser> that's smort.
[00:25:44] <ricky_clarkson> s/J/F/
[00:25:59] <ricky_clarkson> 0xCABBA6E
[00:26:34] <slava> cheeser: there is a great presentation that talks about IoC and XML wiring of components, and how its not needed at all in Ruby.
[00:26:42] <slava> let me find it.
[00:26:57] <ricky_clarkson> Does Ruby have dynamic context?
[00:27:01] <davidw> and she responds... (this is hard to translate) he is responsible for transporting goods
[00:27:11] <pr3d4t0r> slava: There was a great presentation at JIA about Spring.  Convinced a room with 300 people to not use it :)
[00:27:12] <davidw> it turns out he drives a truck
[00:27:24] <davidw> oh wll... it was better in italian...it cracked me up
[00:27:30] <pr3d4t0r> Cheers.
[00:27:30] <cheeser> slava: sure.  but java is not ruby.
[00:28:10] <ricky_clarkson> davidw: Better in voice, but.. "I'm a pharmacist".  "Really?".  "Yes, I assist on a farm".
[00:28:11] <slava> ok then, the problem is not spring itself, but the fact that it needs to exist
[00:28:43] <davidw> it's sleep time for me, but i'll leave you with an article of mine about scaling down
[00:28:46] <slava> just like idea's code templating doesn't suck per se, but its a workaround for verbosity
[00:28:51] <davidw> it's something java is missing, if you appraise it honestly
[00:29:13] <davidw> http://www.dedasys.com/articles/scalable_systems.html
[00:29:28] <davidw> I'm still working/thinking about it, but I think the basic idea is very solid
[00:29:36] <davidw> anyway, sleep...ciao
[00:30:08] <slava> cheeser: and i have used hibernate and jboss, so i'm allowed to say they suck, right?
[00:30:10] *** davidw has quit IRC
[00:30:23] <cheeser> you're allowed to say anything sucks.
[00:30:34] <cheeser> but if you haven't used it, you're a retard for saying it sucks.
[00:31:59] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: You can probably judge some things without trying them.
[00:32:24] <ricky_clarkson> E.g., rape, murder and worst of all, Delphi.
[00:32:56] <cheeser> ricky_clarkson: sure, to a point.  but software's not rape.
[00:33:00] <cheeser> now, *pricing* might be...
[00:33:04] * ricky_clarkson cracks open a Goliath.
[00:33:10] *** lampshade has quit IRC
[00:33:39] *** aimtrainer has joined ##java
[00:34:13] *** Sou|cutter has quit IRC
[00:35:00] <aimtrainer> hi I'm trying to run a jar file (http://www.dsnine.co.uk/~gary/projects/nfoviewer/jnfoviewer.jar) but I dont really know why it doesn'T work (java -jar <jar-file>). Can any1 help me PLZZZ
[00:35:22] <cheeser> javabot: tell aimtrainer about doesn't work
[00:35:22] <javabot> aimtrainer, doesn't work is useless.  Tell us what it is, what you want it to do, and what it is doing.
[00:35:25] <cheeser> javabot: tell aimtrainer about aolbonics
[00:35:25] <javabot> aimtrainer, aolbonics is talking using numbers, or using single letters for you, are, you are, you're, etc. Examples are: Hey evry1; howz it goin?; how r u; ur teh suckz. Talking like this is frowned upon in ##java, and may result in you being silenced. See this for more detail: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20041201
[00:36:36] <ricky_clarkson> aimtrainer: PLZ is a German acronym meaning zipcode or postal code.
[00:36:52] <aimtrainer> yea I know Im german
[00:37:14] <aimtrainer> anyways is anyone willing to try to help me?
[00:37:25] <ricky_clarkson> What is your error?
[00:37:45] <cheeser> aimtrainer: if you actually ask a question and provide some info, sure.
[00:37:58] <aimtrainer> yea I'm tyiing
[00:38:09] <aimtrainer> I cannot copy paste it from my shell
[00:38:17] <aimtrainer> that is my problem
[00:38:19] <ricky_clarkson> That's odd.
[00:38:24] <ricky_clarkson> What terminal?
[00:38:35] *** makii has quit IRC
[00:38:43] <aimtrainer> standart mepis shell
[00:39:11] *** Mc_Fly has joined ##java
[00:39:19] <aimtrainer> but I've tried xterm and I couldn't copy paste there either
[00:39:26] <ricky_clarkson> Why?
[00:39:53] <aimtrainer> good question
[00:40:27] <aimtrainer> I can mark stuff but then when I press ctrl+c it starts a new line
[00:40:37] <ricky_clarkson> Tsck.
[00:40:41] <cheeser> right click, copy.
[00:40:47] *** OleMoudi has quit IRC
[00:41:03] <aimtrainer> Oh thanks
[00:41:07] <aimtrainer> good to know
[00:41:26] <ricky_clarkson> Just mark something, then click both left and right together.  Don't paste more than 2 lines in here thought.
[00:41:30] <aimtrainer> can I paste the error(s) here or will I be kicked for flooding?
[00:41:31] <Mc_Fly> I'm using a ByteArrayOutputStream to store some data, but I have 2 Threads. One thread writes to the stream and the other reads and resets the stream. What do I need to do so that both threads do not request the stream at the same time, and does it matter that they do?
[00:41:41] <ricky_clarkson> aimtrainer: Read what I just said.
[00:41:41] <cheeser> javabot: topicsmite aimtrainer
[00:41:42] <javabot> And the wrath of /TOPIC descended with terrible fury upon aimtrainer.  And all the people marvelled, saying, Behold, we too should read the /TOPIC, lest we be stricken.  And all the people read the /TOPIC, and went away edified.
[00:41:51] *** firelord has quit IRC
[00:41:53] <aimtrainer> yea my ping is lousy I DID read
[00:41:56] <cheeser> Mc_Fly: sync on that BAOS?
[00:42:03] <ricky_clarkson> Cool.
[00:42:03] *** cybereal has joined ##java
[00:42:09] *** firelord has joined ##java
[00:42:21] <HelloWorld82> ricky_clarkson : are you german ?
[00:42:27] <aimtrainer> yea
[00:42:28] <ricky_clarkson> Nein
[00:42:28] <Mc_Fly> cheeser: ?
[00:42:44] <HelloWorld82> oki
[00:42:47] <ricky_clarkson> Ich bin Englisch.  Sehr Englisch.
[00:43:00] <HelloWorld82> but you can speak german :)
[00:43:04] <ricky_clarkson> Nein.
[00:43:07] *** jk__ has joined ##java
[00:43:22] <ricky_clarkson> Ich kann only aproschimate ist.
[00:44:14] <HelloWorld82> oh ... . Ok you can speak it a little bit. Where did you learn it ?
[00:44:24] <ricky_clarkson> In school years ago.
[00:44:28] <aimtrainer> ricky_clarkson I querried you the error
[00:44:34] <ricky_clarkson> I didn't even take it at GCSE level.
[00:44:38] <aimtrainer> are u both americans?
[00:44:48] <HelloWorld82> <---- french
[00:45:03] <aimtrainer> ah
[00:45:22] <cybereal> HelloWorld82: I had guessed that based on your english mistake patters... reminded me of another french speaker I knew once :)
[00:45:23] <ricky_clarkson> English.
[00:45:46] <cheeser> can't you tell by the accents?
[00:45:59] <HelloWorld82> hardly :)
[00:46:03] <ricky_clarkson> I can tell by the smell.
[00:46:35] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson is a beetle
[00:46:38] *** censored has quit IRC
[00:46:50] <ricky_clarkson> A dung beetle.
[00:46:51] <aimtrainer> why do some channels like ##java have two "#"?
[00:46:57] <HelloWorld82> cybereal: And I'm also writing quite fast, and not thinking enought before I write ... so I do quite often mistakes !
[00:46:59] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell aimtrainer about channel naming
[00:46:59] <javabot> aimtrainer, channel naming is http://freenode.net/policy.shtml#channelnaming
[00:47:25] <ricky_clarkson> aimtrainer: Any reason why you spammed me in /msg ?
[00:47:34] <aimtrainer> haven'T been here for long (freenode)
[00:47:42] <cybereal> HelloWorld82: I don't hold anything against someone making mistakes in a second language :)
[00:47:52] <aimtrainer> ricky_clarkson  yea to report you the error that I got
[00:48:03] <ricky_clarkson> aimtrainer: cheeser told you to read the topic.
[00:48:08] <HelloWorld82> cybereal : where do you come from ?
[00:48:23] <cybereal> HelloWorld82: USA
[00:49:06] <HelloWorld82> I was never outside of Europe :-/
[00:49:17] <cybereal> I've never been outside of the USA so we're even
[00:49:20] <aimtrainer> ricky_clarkson u r 2 fucin offensive!!!!!
[00:49:22] *** aimtrainer has left ##java
[00:49:33] * cybereal laughs
[00:49:37] <HelloWorld82> you should come visit me . Then I come to you !
[00:49:54] <ricky_clarkson> aimtrainer: Anyway, Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: jnfoviewer/Main (Unsupported major.minor version 49.0)
[00:50:10] <cybereal> Someday I'll travel out of country... have to pay off my debts first
[00:50:20] <ricky_clarkson> aiyaiyairc: I think 49.0 is Java 5, which is what you need to run that jar.
[00:50:27] <cheeser> yep
[00:50:29] <ricky_clarkson> aim^^
[00:50:39] <cheeser> hahahaha  aimtrainer.
[00:51:15] <ricky_clarkson> I was using typeahead, didn't even wait to see the text before I hit return. ;)
[00:51:36] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: yeah he left after swearing at you
[00:51:41] <cheeser> i didn't really see anything offensive there...
[00:52:11] <cybereal> cheeser: maybe what ricky said means something different in "AIM" ?
[00:52:13] <ricky_clarkson> He probably found my photograph.
[00:52:58] <ricky_clarkson> = 23:53:34 <ricky_clarkson> come back you muppet I just gave you the answer.
[00:52:59] <ricky_clarkson> = 23:54:26 <aimtrainer> yea it's ok I think imma let it go for tonight
[00:53:09] <cheeser> weird
[00:53:28] *** teralaser has quit IRC
[00:53:36] <cybereal> haha calling people muppet is cool
[00:53:57] <cybereal> I like the word "muppet"
[00:54:13] <ricky_clarkson> As long as you don't pronounce it as mappit
[00:54:18] <cybereal> nooo
[00:54:55] *** Honk^away has quit IRC
[00:55:14] *** Honk^away has joined ##java
[00:55:16] *** ramza3 has joined ##java
[00:55:52] <ricky_clarkson> Honk^away: Your nick is funny.
[00:56:12] <ricky_clarkson> Only in this away state though.
[00:56:20] * ricky_clarkson honks away.
[00:56:22] <Honk^away> =)
[00:56:39] * ricky_clarkson honks for England.
[00:56:52] *** Kallistor has quit IRC
[00:57:44] <HelloWorld82> I was in portsmouth
[00:57:52] <ricky_clarkson> Never been there.
[00:58:03] <HelloWorld82> and in liverpool
[00:58:27] <ricky_clarkson> Been there.
[00:58:38] <HelloWorld82> but I did not really like england ...  or perhabs england didn't like me :)
[00:58:45] <ricky_clarkson> et lyon et montpellier.
[00:58:55] <HelloWorld82> I was never at lyon
[00:59:07] *** Twiun is now known as Twiun[Zzzzz]
[00:59:07] <ricky_clarkson> n'est buon pas.
[00:59:12] <HelloWorld82> Its said to be a Paris v.2
[00:59:39] <ramza3> after years of development, I had to use a debugger for the first time.  Interesting
[00:59:45] *** mohadib has quit IRC
[00:59:58] <HelloWorld82> I still don't know how to use a debugger !
[01:00:07] <ricky_clarkson> I wish the Omniscient Debugger had better usability.
[01:00:16] <ricky_clarkson> Or at least one of those crazy Flash demos.
[01:00:31] <ricky_clarkson> That covers a realistic task.
[01:00:48] <HelloWorld82> I always use system.out() or so to look for errors ... Perhaps I should really invest some time in learning a debugging tool .
[01:01:05] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell HelloWorld82 about logging
[01:01:05] <javabot> HelloWorld82, logging is a common task in java programs, for which many libraries are written. There is log4j ( http://jakarta.apache.org/log4j/ ), or Jakarta Commons Logging ( http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/logging/ ), or you can use java.util.logging.Logger. Each one has useful points over the others.
[01:01:14] <ricky_clarkson> That might at least be better than System.out.
[01:01:21] <HelloWorld82> I know about logging. I use log4j for that.
[01:01:25] <Bevin> ricky_clarkson: check out X-develop's back-in-time debugger
[01:02:15] <ricky_clarkson> googling.
[01:02:43] <HelloWorld82> there are some good debugger developed at my university, for eclipse. They are based on "delta-debugging"
[01:03:54] <HelloWorld82> it automates a little bit the debugging and makes an abstraction of you programm, and  you will only see parts of the programm that really can affect the errornous output/exception
[01:04:06] <ramza3> ricky_clarkson, are you a debugger person
[01:05:35] <ricky_clarkson> Partially.
[01:05:57] <ricky_clarkson> I suppose I just haven't seen log output that I actually like reading.
[01:07:38] *** RedEar has joined ##java
[01:07:42] *** lampshade has joined ##java
[01:08:07] <RedEar> hi :-)
[01:08:11] <ricky_clarkson> I'd like to be able to provide that back-in-time stuff as part of my app I suppose.
[01:08:22] <ricky_clarkson> Bevin: Do you know any more?
[01:09:07] *** mkhl has quit IRC
[01:10:34] <Bevin> ricky_clarkson: besides the omniscient debugger, no
[01:11:01] <EcksEightySix> real programmer debug with an oscilloscope!
[01:11:10] <EcksEightySix> (j/k)
[01:11:41] *** pchapman has quit IRC
[01:13:32] <Mc_Fly> I'm using a ByteArrayOutputStream to store some data, but I have 2 Threads. One thread writes to the stream and the other reads and resets the stream. What do I need to do so that both threads do not request the stream at the same time, and does it matter that they do?
[01:13:54] <cybereal> Mc_Fly: synchronized
[01:14:26] <ricky_clarkson> Would a PipedOutputStream and PipedInputStream be better?
[01:15:43] <[GT]Kane> anyone recomend a good place to start to learn java? also using the bluejay editor
[01:15:52] *** YD has quit IRC
[01:15:56] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell [GT]Kane about getting started
[01:15:57] <javabot> [GT]Kane, I guess the factoid 'get started' might be appropriate:
[01:15:59] <javabot> [GT]Kane, get started is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/getStarted
[01:16:01] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell [GT]Kane about newbie ide
[01:16:02] <javabot> [GT]Kane, newbies shouldn't use IDEs.  read:  http://qa.jtiger.org/GetQAndA.action?qids=52&showAnswers=true
[01:16:28] <[GT]Kane> whats a IDE lol
[01:16:28] *** uman has joined ##java
[01:16:29] <uman> hi all
[01:16:32] <[GT]Kane> also I have to use bluejay
[01:16:37] <[GT]Kane> we use it in class
[01:16:44] <[GT]Kane> what were forced to learn off
[01:16:52] <ricky_clarkson> [GT]Kane: Listen to Blue Jay Way by the Beatles.
[01:17:01] <EcksEightySix> never heard of bluejay
[01:17:04] <uman> Does java have any sort of support for loading modules at runtime?
[01:17:05] <[GT]Kane> http://www.bluej.org
[01:17:06] <ricky_clarkson> BlueJ
[01:17:13] <Mc_Fly> cybereal: Make a sync class?
[01:17:14] <HelloWorld82> where is also a quite good book for java available for free online. Go To Java 2
[01:17:16] <EcksEightySix> oh
[01:17:19] <uman> like, if I was using C++ or C or whatever, on Windows, there are .dll files...
[01:17:24] <cheeser> javabot: tell uman about jpf
[01:17:24] <javabot> uman, jpf is the java plugin framework.  It aims to simplify plugin based systems and can be found at http://jpf.sourceforge.net/.
[01:17:32] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell HelloWorld82 about tij
[01:17:32] <javabot> HelloWorld82, tij is http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIJ/
[01:17:40] <uman> cheeser, ty!
[01:17:58] <cybereal> ~tell Mc_Fly about synchronized
[01:17:58] <javabot> Mc_Fly, synchronized is http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/essential/threads/monitors.html
[01:18:00] *** Torquemada has joined ##java
[01:18:02] <kinabalu> .
[01:18:12] <ricky_clarkson> ..
[01:18:22] <kinabalu> ...
[01:18:37] <ricky_clarkson> The next one is quite obviously ../..
[01:18:40] <ricky_clarkson> Not ...
[01:18:55] <HelloWorld82> is thinking in java better ?
[01:18:59] <kinabalu> ricky_clarkson: well .. not in dos!  ... is valid
[01:19:04] <HelloWorld82> I don't know, I never used a book
[01:19:08] <uman> javabot rules
[01:19:09] <javabot> I know.
[01:19:12] <ricky_clarkson> I've never heard of that yours HelloWorld82.
[01:19:15] <uman> you should just leave it in the chan to answer ?s
[01:19:47] <Mc_Fly> cybereal: I just read that :-) I just dont see if I'm to copy the entire content og my ByteArrayOutputStream to the CubbyHole data and then copy it all to the consumer afterwards?
[01:19:58] *** vimacs has joined ##java
[01:20:02] <Mc_Fly> cybereal: seems like a lot of copying
[01:20:42] <cybereal> Mc_Fly: just look at the synchronized keyword
[01:21:37] <Mc_Fly> cybereal: Would the idea be for the producer to acumulate the data in the ByteArrayOutputStream and then put it in CubbyHole when former data has been retrieved?
[01:21:39] <cybereal> Mc_Fly: I don't know what that link goes to
[01:21:57] <[GT]Kane> um is there like a special editor I need to use this dont work in bluej maybe does I just dont know how to use lol
[01:21:57] <[GT]Kane> http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/getStarted/application/index.html
[01:21:58] <cybereal> Mc_Fly: just use synchronized around all operations on that bytearrayoutputstream
[01:21:59] <HelloWorld82> Oh. I'm dump :(. I believe, go to java 2 is only available in german :((. I thought, It was english
[01:22:56] <Mc_Fly> cybereal: ohh, that simple?? the klink teels of a way to make a seperate class that does the syncing
[01:23:03] <ricky_clarkson> HelloWorld82: It's dumb, not dump.  Really.
[01:23:24] <cybereal> Mc_Fly: yeah it's simple for straight locking
[01:23:32] <HelloWorld82> yeah, I saw to late ..
[01:23:36] <cybereal> Mc_Fly: for what you're doing it should be fine, so long as it's ok that the second thread will block
[01:24:42] <cybereal> Mc_Fly: you can make a whole method synchronized or you can make synchronized blocks within code
[01:24:44] <Mc_Fly> cybereal: well, the second thread is the get the data and thn flush the buffer, but what happens if the first thread whants to insert date?
[01:25:00] <Mc_Fly> data
[01:25:14] <cybereal> Mc_Fly: if one thread has access to the object that is synchronized then the other thread trying to get it will block until it gets it
[01:25:28] <ricky_clarkson> I explained deadlock today.
[01:25:58] <cybereal> Mc_Fly: just make sure neither thread will ever get stuck in the synchronized blocks
[01:26:04] <Mc_Fly> cybereal: Ahh, so the other thrad will go to a "wait" state untill given the key to unlock the sync?
[01:26:12] <ricky_clarkson> I took two 50p pieces out, and explained that an ice cream cost 1 pound, and there were two children.  Each grabs a 50p, and then they can't get an ice cream.
[01:26:17] *** whaley has quit IRC
[01:26:59] <cybereal> Mc_Fly: yeah basically, threading can become complicated.  Generally speaking, don't put any logic in the synchronized area, just data storage, retrieval
[01:27:06] * ricky_clarkson is ridiculously good at winging it.
[01:27:21] *** Nocker has joined ##java
[01:27:41] <cybereal> Mc_Fly: http://www.janeg.ca/scjp/threads/synchronized.html
[01:28:34] <Nocker> hi
[01:28:36] <cybereal> probably the same example from the other link
[01:29:07] <Mc_Fly> cybereal: It was :-)
[01:29:37] <cybereal> Mc_Fly: at the bottom it links to more examples in different scenarios
[01:29:53] <cybereal> Mc_Fly: http://www.janeg.ca/scjp/threads/Thread4.java sounds like what you're doing
[01:31:15] <Mc_Fly> cybereal: My problem is that the second thread is slower that the first thread (it needs to process the data). so if the first thred goes into a wait state, it can not get the data it needs to store
[01:31:46] <cybereal> Mc_Fly: there are other solutions, I'm just showing you the java way to thread safety
[01:32:36] <cybereal> Mc_Fly: also, I would avoid using threads for what you're doing anyway
[01:33:20] <cybereal> implement the data source as a stream and let the reader call for more data as necessary
[01:35:06] <Mc_Fly> cybereal: reader?
[01:35:16] <cybereal> Mc_Fly: in the sense of a role
[01:35:22] <cybereal> Mc_Fly: the piece of code that is reading the data
[01:35:24] *** pchapman has joined ##java
[01:35:32] <HelloWorld82> I just finished my first real tomcat servlet :) wohooo
[01:36:25] <Mc_Fly> cybereal: it is har to find the best way of doing it
[01:36:35] <Mc_Fly> cybereal: But thanks for the help
[01:36:40] *** carlinhos has joined ##java
[01:36:42] <cybereal> Mc_Fly: the least complicated way is probably the best :) That's why I shy away from threads.
[01:37:41] *** FaeLLe has quit IRC
[01:38:31] *** newm4n has quit IRC
[01:40:13] *** MindZEye has quit IRC
[01:41:25] <ricky_clarkson> I'm going towards threads for that reason atm.
[01:42:45] <HelloWorld82> http://demoportal.dfki.de/servlet/views <-- this is my tomcat servlet. It's not so intersting I believe, but I have been working all the time for that, so I'm proud of it :)
[01:45:38] *** aktinos has quit IRC
[01:45:47] *** Kezzer has quit IRC
[01:51:30] *** blackfalcon has joined ##java
[01:52:05] *** jk__ has quit IRC
[01:52:49] *** RedEar has quit IRC
[01:53:03] *** lampshade has quit IRC
[01:59:19] *** wcstok has joined ##java
[02:04:49] *** dibblego has joined ##java
[02:04:51] *** mohadib has joined ##java
[02:05:53] <ricky_clarkson> G'day dibblego.
[02:05:58] <dibblego> hello
[02:06:40] <vinse> greetings, oh surly one
[02:06:49] <dibblego> hello vinse
[02:07:02] <dibblego> snoturly btw
[02:07:09] <dibblego> it's nearly lunch time
[02:07:34] * ricky_clarkson makes dibblego a lunchbox full of sense.
[02:07:44] <mohadib> its not early
[02:07:55] <ricky_clarkson> I can identify with that, it was lunchtime 12 hours ago.
[02:07:59] <mohadib> heh
[02:08:12] <dibblego> I admire being branded surly; it supports my theories
[02:08:31] <ricky_clarkson> The Internet: Bringing Australians Closer To The Place They Were Expelled From.
[02:08:50] <ramza3> working on a top secret government project...shh (package gov. ....)
[02:08:52] <dibblego> I'd like to think not
[02:09:34] <ramza3> I just posted copyrighted material, might go to jail
[02:09:36] <ricky_clarkson> package xxx.svenska;
[02:09:46] *** mgrimes has quit IRC
[02:11:48] <ricky_clarkson> Btw, .xxx domain names are available.
[02:12:56] <pr3d4t0r> Man, this show rocks.
[02:13:15] <[GT]Kane> the L word?
[02:13:30] <cybereal> he's liking the housewices
[02:13:32] <cybereal> er wives
[02:13:38] <[GT]Kane> red shoe diaries?
[02:13:41] <[GT]Kane> oh
[02:13:43] <[GT]Kane> lol
[02:14:00] <[GT]Kane> the family business?
[02:14:01] <mohadib> hehgh'
[02:14:04] <[GT]Kane> that show rocks :D
[02:14:42] <ricky_clarkson> What's red shoe diaries?
[02:15:06] <mohadib> some other ghey show
[02:15:15] *** dibblego has quit IRC
[02:16:55] <ricky_clarkson> This one: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103522/ ?
[02:21:44] <ricky_clarkson> If you ping an imaginary host on a foreign network, do you get host not found, or request timed out?
[02:22:14] *** dibblego has joined ##java
[02:22:19] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Request time out.
[02:22:25] <ricky_clarkson> Cool.
[02:22:36] <Honk^away> there's no way to tell if a host is up or not, if it doesnt respond to icmp packages ;)
[02:22:37] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: you get host not found if you try to resolve a hostname that isn't in dns
[02:22:48] <cybereal> Honk^away: that's not entirely true
[02:22:52] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Are you sure it's imaginary or do you want to prove it's imaginary?
[02:22:56] <Honk^away> cybereal: ohh? :)
[02:23:22] <Honk^away> tell me about that :)
[02:23:23] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: I want to know what the IP implementation should do in that case.
[02:23:25] <cybereal> Honk^away: there are tons of things that hosts might respond to besides ICMP, simplest second example is connect() calls to random common ports, or all ports f you want to be really obvious
[02:23:27] *** apix has quit IRC
[02:23:34] <Honk^away> *sigh*
[02:23:47] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Not replying to an ICMP ping is meaningless, like Honk^away said.
[02:23:51] <Honk^away> just pretend it'll discard all tcp/udp traffic ;)
[02:24:02] *** vimacs has quit IRC
[02:24:03] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: The host may be up and alive, just dropping ICMP packets.
[02:24:04] *** apix has joined ##java
[02:24:13] <ricky_clarkson> So the gateway won't tell you it can't find the host.
[02:24:21] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Exactly.
[02:24:21] <Honk^away> ricky_clarkson: no
[02:24:27] <cybereal> Honk^away: nmap is a useful tool ;)
[02:24:37] <ricky_clarkson> Cheers, gents.
[02:24:41] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: You need to use something like nmap and more sophisticated scanning techniques to see if the host is up or not.
[02:24:44] <dibblego> nmap still doesn't guarantee anything
[02:24:47] *** MrPrimate has joined ##java
[02:24:56] <Honk^away> pr3d4t0r: even that might not work
[02:25:04] <Honk^away> you can hide your host, if you want to
[02:25:07] <pr3d4t0r> Honk^away: Yeah, I know.  But that's a hell of a lot better than ping.
[02:25:13] <Honk^away> though you really shouldnt do it
[02:25:16] <cybereal> no but nmap is still a useful tool to find info on hosts
[02:25:23] <ricky_clarkson> So quite simply, when the timeout occurs, if there is an ARP entry for the gateway, give request timed out, else give host not found.
[02:25:25] <Honk^away> dropping icmp packages sucks, too (stupid personal firewalls *g*)
[02:25:42] <ricky_clarkson> Yeah, if the gateway is imaginary, what do you get?
[02:25:43] *** EY has joined ##java
[02:25:51] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Host not found if it was found through DNS.
[02:25:55] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: host not found is an error for when you can't resolve a name
[02:26:13] <cybereal> you don't say that for hosts that don't respond
[02:26:15] <ricky_clarkson> Suppose it's set as an IP address..
[02:26:26] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: I think it's time to RTFM on TCP/IP, UDP, and ICMP :)
[02:26:37] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: An IP address != host.
[02:26:37] <mohadib> no route to host
[02:26:44] <cybereal> no route to host is different
[02:26:47] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: RTFRFCs is hard going.
[02:27:00] <cybereal> almost the only time you say that is if your routing tables don't have anything for a subnet that you've targetted
[02:27:01] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: It's a lot better than asking a bunch of yahoos on IRC.
[02:27:03] <Honk^away> ricky_clarkson: usually you should just get timeout
[02:27:11] <mohadib> if the host is on another network and ther is no route
[02:27:14] <cybereal> i.e. if you are on 10.0.0.0 and you send to 192.8.8.8 and there is no default gateway set
[02:27:19] <mohadib> cause your gateway is down..
[02:27:21] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: I agree with Honk^away.  Timing out sounds like the best choice.
[02:27:22] <ricky_clarkson> route add default gw 146.87.3.3 and 146.87.3.3 is not actually, e.g., powered up.
[02:27:39] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Let me see what tatiana has to say.  Stand by.
[02:27:39] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: I realise timing out will happen, just checking the error message.
[02:27:49] <Honk^away> ricky_clarkson: timeout, if you can reach 146.87.3.3 ;)
[02:27:55] <Honk^away> (e.g. you are in the same subnet)
[02:28:06] <ricky_clarkson> Honk^away: Request timed out5?
[02:28:12] <ricky_clarkson> s/5//
[02:28:16] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: PING 69.3.31.83 (69.3.31.83) from 69.3.31.82 : 56(84) bytes of data.
[02:28:19] <pr3d4t0r> From 69.3.31.82 icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable
[02:28:31] <slava> pr3d4t0r: i cna't wait to upgrade the ram on this damn mac mini.
[02:28:31] *** carlinhos has quit IRC
[02:28:32] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Valid IP address, router properly configured, no machine there.
[02:28:38] <pr3d4t0r> slava: I told you so.
[02:28:39] <slava> pr3d4t0r: i just waited a full minute while jedit was being swapped in.
[02:28:45] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: Brilliant.
[02:29:05] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: I can plug a box in there, turned off, and see what that returns, if you want.
[02:29:20] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Some instant-on NICs may return something else.
[02:29:35] <ricky_clarkson> So, if there is an entry in the MAC table for the gateway, I want "Request timed out", else "Host unreachable".
[02:29:35] <pr3d4t0r> slava: He, he, he...
[02:29:43] <Honk^away> pr3d4t0r: well.. that's ethernet though, isnt it? :)
[02:29:57] <pr3d4t0r> Honk^away: Yeah.  It shouldn't matter.
[02:30:09] <pr3d4t0r> Honk^away: I'm wondering how the router sees it; probably only the MAC address.
[02:30:29] <mohadib> if it has a layer two connection to it...yes the mac
[02:30:32] <Honk^away> ricky_clarkson: sounds about right
[02:30:42] *** EY has quit IRC
[02:31:25] * ricky_clarkson sets a timeout of 1 second.
[02:31:34] <Honk^away> 1 second is plenty for a lan ;)
[02:31:51] <ricky_clarkson> Especially a simulated one.
[02:32:19] <ricky_clarkson> A user will be less confused with a request timed out that is 1 second than one that's 10ms. ;)
[02:32:22] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: You can use iptables to run a nifty simulation if you have a couple of NICs on that box :)
[02:32:23] <Honk^away> you're doing some weird stuff again, arent you? :)
[02:32:50] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: I'm running Windows on this machine atm.,
[02:32:59] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Ouch.
[02:33:18] <mohadib> can you mess with the nextwork card via cygwin?
[02:33:26] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Probably not.
[02:33:38] <ricky_clarkson> Well, I'm using a USB ADSL modem right now.
[02:33:38] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Windows has some nifty command line tools for h4x0ring.
[02:34:03] <ricky_clarkson> And most of the time at work I use a wireless card.
[02:34:19] <ricky_clarkson> I'm not simulating either of those.
[02:34:19] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: it can bring up virtual interfaces with built in software?
[02:34:20] <pr3d4t0r> He, he, he...
[02:34:30] * pr3d4t0r just realized that he's using his WiFi network today.
[02:34:52] <ricky_clarkson> I use next door's wireless at home sometimes, when I can't be bothered plugging my cable in.
[02:34:58] <vinse> i recently realized i'd been using my neighbors wifi network for months
[02:35:03] <mohadib> heh
[02:35:05] * pr3d4t0r just realized that he could do some crazy bridging if he leaves the WiFi up and plugs nena to the external network.
[02:35:38] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Your neighbours suck.
[02:35:52] <ricky_clarkson> There's no network ports in the office I just moved into, hence the wireless.
[02:36:00] * pr3d4t0r considers moving to vinse's neighbourhood to download warez and music.
[02:36:12] <ricky_clarkson> There's also no radiator, which will be a problem a month and a half from now.
[02:36:31] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: the building will get a cracked block?
[02:36:34] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: There's a lot of unsecured wireless networks around.
[02:36:42] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: Eh?
[02:36:50] *** cm_patric has quit IRC
[02:37:06] <ricky_clarkson> I got on the Internet temporarily on the bus.
[02:37:28] <Honk^away> ricky_clarkson: cant you have your dhcp client do some auto-configuration? ;)
[02:37:36] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: what do y'all call the thing that holds the main coolant for cars?
[02:37:47] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: A radiator.
[02:37:52] <mohadib> hehe
[02:37:53] * mohadib nods
[02:38:02] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: I meant a radiator as in central heating.
[02:38:28] <ricky_clarkson> And I don't know what you mean by cracked block.
[02:39:02] <mohadib> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=cracked+block&btnG=Google+Search
[02:40:30] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Not in my neighbourhood :(
[02:40:43] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: I'm surrounded by paranoid wankers.
[02:40:54] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: There's a drive to get the whole city wirelessed up.
[02:40:56] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: I change my WEP ID every 30 days :)
[02:41:09] <ricky_clarkson> Especially the centre.
[02:41:14] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Google is going to turn our whole city wireless, I heard.
[02:41:31] <ricky_clarkson> I was pissed off in a coffee shop when the wireless required payment.
[02:41:47] <ricky_clarkson> I paid for the coffee you arseholes..
[02:42:03] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Exactly.
[02:42:45] <ricky_clarkson> Next time I'll set up my own wireless network that makes the customers think the coffee place is insulting them.
[02:42:46] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: can your ap do IPA?
[02:42:53] <ricky_clarkson> India Pale Ale?
[02:42:57] <mohadib> heh
[02:43:34] <ricky_clarkson> One day I'll join CAMRA - Campaign for Real Ale.
[02:44:42] *** PPSD has quit IRC
[02:44:50] * ricky_clarkson just drank a Goliath: http://www.cyphus.com/cyphus/stp.nsf/0/0A9AE9E91061F7FA80256EFF0064E2C4/$File/goliath.jpg?OpenElement
[02:45:20] *** flippo has joined ##java
[02:45:21] <ricky_clarkson> .nsf - is that Lotus Notes?
[02:45:22] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Huh?
[02:45:40] <ricky_clarkson> Wow, that shite's still used!
[02:46:19] *** quietdisaster has joined ##java
[02:46:43] *** grifis has joined ##java
[02:48:06] <grifis> how can i send data to a c socket ?? (server is written in c) ...i'm desparate and raw.write(byte) seems to be useless
[02:48:14] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: wpa :\
[02:48:30] <Honk^away> grifis: what's a c socket? ;)
[02:48:42] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/networking/expert/bowman_03july28.mspx
[02:48:43] <Honk^away> are you talking about tcp?
[02:49:02] <Honk^away> then it shouldnt matter what language the server is written in, you just have to follow the protocol
[02:49:08] <ricky_clarkson> grifis: There's no difference between a socket that a C program created and any other socket.  Connect to it like you would connect to any socket.
[02:49:15] <mohadib> grifis: what endian? signed/unsigned ?
[02:49:56] *** Ulgar has quit IRC
[02:50:07] <grifis> i can connect to socket
[02:50:13] <grifis> but i cannot send more than 1 byte(!)
[02:50:18] <ricky_clarkson> Why?
[02:50:24] <grifis> Socket Exception
[02:50:33] <ricky_clarkson> `What message?
[02:51:04] <grifis> byte[] b = new byte[2];
[02:51:09] <grifis> raw.write(b);
[02:51:17] <grifis> returns socket ex
[02:51:37] <mohadib> what is the exact exception?
[02:51:46] <Honk^away> and the exception surely has no message attached to it.. :]
[02:52:39] <ricky_clarkson> My guess is that he closed the socket (via one of the streams) too early.
[02:52:50] <grifis> java.net.SocketException: Connection reset
[02:52:54] <ricky_clarkson> Yep.
[02:53:00] *** FaeLLe has joined ##java
[02:53:04] <grifis> if i send more than 1 byte
[02:53:20] <ricky_clarkson> grifis: Don't close the socket or one of its streams until you've finished with the socket.  On either the server or the client.
[02:53:44] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell grifis about pastebin
[02:53:44] <javabot> grifis, Paste your code, preferably a test case, any errors, and any other relevant information into the pastebin and tell us the URL: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin
[02:53:55] <grifis> ok
[02:54:20] <ricky_clarkson> ~magic8 is my crystal ball on form?
[02:54:20] <javabot> Definitely
[02:54:38] <dibblego> I'm about to be fired
[02:54:44] <FaeLLe> dibblego: oo why ?
[02:54:45] <dibblego> yay!
[02:54:53] <dibblego> because I just told my manager to get fucked
[02:55:04] <dibblego> in less simple terms
[02:55:06] <FaeLLe> shit :/ patience man
[02:55:07] <Drone> View grifis's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8324
[02:55:08] <ricky_clarkson> This is at IBM, right?
[02:55:11] <dibblego> right
[02:55:20] <pr3d4t0r> dibblego: Sucks to be you.
[02:55:23] <dibblego> if I'm fired, I'll expose the whole farce
[02:55:27] <dibblego> pr3d4t0r: I disagree
[02:55:28] <pr3d4t0r> dibblego: My boss took me to sushi yesterday.
[02:55:50] <grifis> sorry...it seems to be a problem with in.read() ...but it depends on OutputStream.write()
[02:55:53] <pr3d4t0r> dibblego: We have a good vibe going.  He's half Swiss.  We have lots of common cultural references.
[02:56:05] *** r3tex has joined ##java
[02:56:06] <dibblego> my boss is a nice person; just refuses to concede that a low life like myself might be right
[02:56:36] <pr3d4t0r> dibblego: If you're good (and I presume you are), they'll slap your wrist and learn to accept you as "quirky".
[02:56:42] <FaeLLe> 'the boss is always righ'
[02:56:59] <dibblego> pr3d4t0r: this is not the first time my wrist has been slapped
[02:57:06] <dibblego> I am always told to get back in the box
[02:57:09] <pr3d4t0r> dibblego: So probably you won't get fired either.
[02:57:17] <dibblego> yes, this time is different
[02:57:22] <dibblego> I simply refuse to concede
[02:57:30] <pr3d4t0r> dibblego: He, he, he...
[02:57:44] <dibblego> I will concede though, if I'm asked to pretend that what I know is wrong, is right
[02:57:44] <ricky_clarkson> Do you refuse to work, or just not bow to an opinion?
[02:57:45] <flippo> Sometimes, a job is just a job, you know.
[02:57:56] <dibblego> but it must be acknowledge that I will never not think it's wrong
[02:58:10] <dibblego> ricky_clarkson: it's not that simple
[02:58:14] <pr3d4t0r> dibblego: http://www.hotjobs.com
[02:58:15] <ricky_clarkson> dibblego: You said in here that you don't care what people think.
[02:58:17] <dibblego> I'd like to work
[02:58:19] * flippo parses the triple negative
[02:58:30] <dibblego> ricky_clarkson: sure, but that's not the reason why
[02:58:40] <dibblego> it's because it affects my ability to perform my job
[02:58:42] <pr3d4t0r> dibblego: "Who is John Galt?"
[02:58:45] <dibblego> at a very fundamental level
[02:59:01] <grifis> however... can i use OutputStreamWriter when writing to socket for a server written in C ?
[02:59:11] <ricky_clarkson> grifis: Yes.
[02:59:49] <dibblego> imagine the following: you are given from a customer "I have an error, why?"; I request more details, after some time, the customer gets annoyed because their "error" is not solved. I request access to the machine so I can just do a VM debug and observe it. I am told to use initiative instead
[03:00:20] <ricky_clarkson> Do you have clearance to speak to the customer directly?
[03:00:43] <pr3d4t0r> But in April, Hilton issued a terse statement saying it was "no big secret that Nicole and I are no longer friends. Nicole knows what she did, and that's all I'm ever going to say about it."
[03:00:46] <dibblego> of course not
[03:00:51] <dibblego> that would solve their problem
[03:00:54] <pr3d4t0r> Now we know who leaked the Sidekick's files to the 'net.
[03:00:58] <ricky_clarkson> Whoever told you to use initiative, ask them to consider what they would do in your situation.
[03:01:20] <dibblego> and the other issue is that I am a Java application (the worst code I've ever seen); which runs on a JVM, uses JCE providers, JNI, etc.
[03:01:28] <dibblego> if any of those components fail, it lands on my desk
[03:01:37] <cybereal> dibblego: you're a java application? I KNEW IT!
[03:01:44] <dibblego> almost always it is the JNI or a JCE provider
[03:01:54] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: He's Astroboy!
[03:02:05] <ricky_clarkson> JZealot.
[03:02:07] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: I thought he was jEdit... slava's bit.... :)
[03:02:31] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: Nah.  If it were that it'd have sensayuma.
[03:02:58] <dibblego> so now I am being asked to "use initiative, and the customer's problem is "I have an error, why?"
[03:02:58] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: He likes motorbikes if that helps.
[03:03:25] <dibblego> no conversing wth the customer, no requesting further information
[03:03:43] <dibblego> and that's not the funny part
[03:03:52] <ricky_clarkson> Reason for error: Ambiguous error report.
[03:03:52] <dibblego> from a "you're not me" perspective of course
[03:04:48] <dibblego> it's all pretty funny if you could see the big picture, and that you weren't a victim of it
[03:05:00] <pr3d4t0r> dibblego: Dude, manage your manager.
[03:05:01] *** Mot has quit IRC
[03:05:12] <ricky_clarkson> I saw the fun my friend had working on something called LAN/DP for IBM in England.
[03:05:22] <dibblego> pr3d4t0r: I used to, but I don't want to
[03:05:28] <pr3d4t0r> dibblego: Give the customer an answer based on the information you got, cc: your manager and other interested parties, wait for more feedback.
[03:05:35] <ricky_clarkson> Sounds quite similar in social situation.
[03:05:43] <dibblego> pr3d4t0r: that's "unprofessional"
[03:06:01] <pr3d4t0r> dibblego: No, it's not.
[03:06:03] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: IBM engineers typically are not allowed to contact customers.
[03:06:11] <pr3d4t0r> dibblego: You're replying based on the information you have.
[03:06:22] <ricky_clarkson> Afaik they have customer clearance levels.
[03:06:23] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: I know.  That's why I quit them fuckers.
[03:06:24] <dibblego> pr3d4t0r: you're starting to sound like me, and you're not allowed to do that
[03:06:35] <pr3d4t0r> ROFL.
[03:06:42] <slava> dibblego: you poor guy. you need a new job...
[03:06:49] <slava> dibblego: try not to burn out.
[03:07:08] <ricky_clarkson> dibblego: Get on a plane.  If you can't find a coding job, there are at least Aussie-themed bars you can work in in the UK.
[03:07:11] <dibblego> slava: those issues are both on my priority list
[03:07:27] <pandora--> hehe
[03:07:37] *** chippy has quit IRC
[03:07:38] <pandora--> pr3d4t0r's gettin all vulgar here eh?
[03:09:28] <pr3d4t0r> pandora--: I have very few nice things to say about IBM.
[03:09:36] <pandora--> hah
[03:09:41] <pr3d4t0r> pandora--: I love working WITH them.  I hated every minute I worked FOR them.
[03:10:04] <ricky_clarkson> They use token ring in their UK offices.
[03:10:12] <FaeLLe> plus they like to hire only local's :p
[03:10:47] <FaeLLe> any of you seen the IBM office in Dubai ?
[03:10:59] <ricky_clarkson> Never seen Dubai.
[03:11:31] <ramza3> are they completely out of PCs?
[03:11:32] * ricky_clarkson hasn't been out of Europe, unless you count the South of Italy as Africa, as Northern Italians seem to do.
[03:11:38] <ramza3> pc industry?
[03:12:40] <vinse> never left europe?
[03:12:42] <vinse> wtf man
[03:13:07] <jwormy> ramza3, waht did you do about your charlotte trip?
[03:13:08] *** teeboy has quit IRC
[03:13:22] <ricky_clarkson> vinse: Most Americans have never left the US.
[03:13:23] <pr3d4t0r> pandora--: Now that I work for Wal-Mart I can truly appreciate how sucky working for IBM was.  There is a sense of extreme bureacracy that just drove me up the wall.  The company culture was weird, and people followed rules out of fear.  Where I live now the attitude almost everyone has, from the guys cleaning the floors all the way to the CEO is "let's solve the problem NOW and do whatever it takes to make our customers happy".  I love tha
[03:13:46] <vinse> ricky_clarkson: i was about to say, "that's something i'd expect from an american"
[03:13:50] <ramza3> jwormy: bah, not going to go, probably save my money for some ram or something, that is on the 29
[03:13:53] <pandora--> nice, thats probably pretty refreshing eh?
[03:14:03] <pr3d4t0r> pandora--: I love it.  That's why I'm still there.
[03:14:11] <ricky_clarkson> vinse: There's a lot more difference in culture per mile in Europe.
[03:14:13] <pr3d4t0r> pandora--: Hrm... you're a Mac/Linux/UNIX guy, right?
[03:14:14] <ramza3> jwormy: not that I am phobe or anything...
[03:14:17] <pr3d4t0r> pandora--: If so...
[03:14:19] <pandora--> pr3d4t0r: linux ya
[03:14:23] <pandora--> linux/unix
[03:14:24] <pr3d4t0r> pandora--: Dang.
[03:14:26] <pandora--> why?
[03:14:28] <ricky_clarkson> vinse: When people are incomprehensible in Europe, they're probably speaking Foreign, not Redneck.
[03:14:39] <pr3d4t0r> pandora--: I've been offered porting some Linux file systems to OS X but I'm too busy.  3-month contract.
[03:14:48] <pr3d4t0r> pandora--: I was offered the gig three times.
[03:14:57] *** Mc_Fly has quit IRC
[03:15:09] <vinse> ricky_clarkson: there's no real difference between the two ... the way "foreign" is defined by political entities has very little to do with teh linguistic definition
[03:15:09] <pandora--> porting filesystems? what do you mean?
[03:15:14] <pandora--> that seems kinda weird
[03:15:16] <tanq> that's what i was wondering
[03:15:22] <pr3d4t0r> pandora--: The native OS X file systems are HFS and HFS+.
[03:15:35] <ricky_clarkson> vinse: I'm not a political entity, I'm a human bean.
[03:15:38] <pandora--> k
[03:15:42] <pr3d4t0r> pandora--: They're probably thinking of supporting ext3 and/or Reiser FS or whatever.
[03:15:45] <vinse> i'm a lima bean
[03:15:49] <pandora--> ah
[03:16:01] * pandora-- is a soy bean
[03:16:03] * pr3d4t0r is a pr3d4t0r
[03:16:15] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: There's an ext3 viewer for Windows that might be a sensible first step to port, duno.
[03:16:17] * pr3d4t0r takes to the skies, looking for prey...
[03:16:25] <vinse> my dog garbanzo loves to roam, one day garbanzo left his home
[03:16:28] <ramza3> dibblego: funny though that your company has billions of employees and your the only one on #java freenode
[03:16:28] <vinse> i went out to look for him
[03:16:36] <vinse> where oh where has garbanzo bean?
[03:16:42] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: They want support for the OS itself, not a viewer.  So that you can mount those volumes directly.
[03:16:42] <vinse> (please kill me)
[03:16:46] <pandora--> vinse: lol
[03:16:47] <mohadib> hehe
[03:16:50] <dibblego> ramza3: most of them are asleep; and/or cannot penetrate the firewall(s)
[03:16:51] <ramza3> but then again there are millions of developers and there only 150 on freenode
[03:16:55] <tanq> i thought that you could use the other file systems with OSX
[03:17:08] <pr3d4t0r> tanq: I don't know what the scoop is.
[03:17:13] <ricky_clarkson> dibblego: What do you have to do to penetrate the firewall?
[03:17:16] *** Mot has joined ##java
[03:17:16] <ramza3> dibblego, I bet they dont know what it is
[03:17:17] <pr3d4t0r> tanq: I have a job description and a 3-month window :)
[03:17:29] <ricky_clarkson> ramza3: Note that a lot of the #eclipse people are IBM, or at least related to IBM.
[03:17:36] <ramza3> ricky_clarkson, ah
[03:17:41] <dibblego> ricky_clarkson: I have to proxy to Sydney, but some days, I have to go via a proxy in Colorado
[03:17:48] <ramza3> pr3d4t0r, you sure do like working, 3 months seems like vacation time
[03:17:50] <dibblego> it took me ages to figure it all out
[03:18:08] <dibblego> I have to use SOCKS to Sydney, then a HTTP proxy out
[03:18:13] <ricky_clarkson> dibblego: Sometimes I use VPN just to stop my neighbours from being able to sniff my passwords.
[03:18:27] <ramza3> dibblego, jabber might have been an easier solution?
[03:18:28] <mohadib> heh
[03:18:32] <ricky_clarkson> dibblego: I use ssh to get to pr3d4t0r's box, where I run screen.
[03:18:32] <ramza3> jabber -> irc
[03:18:38] <tanq> pr3d4t0r: i can get the scoop for you.. this last shop i worked at was 99.9% G5s
[03:18:47] <cybereal> ramza3: afaik none of those transports actually work anymore
[03:18:56] <tanq> we had 2 minis as well.. heh
[03:18:56] <dibblego> ramza3: I do it without the IRC client, setting up local proxies
[03:18:58] <ricky_clarkson> ramza3: Surely you'd need access to some server or something to get from jabber to IRC.
[03:19:00] <ramza3> cybereal, yea
[03:19:11] <pr3d4t0r> ramza3: Huh?
[03:19:24] <ramza3> pr3d4t0r, huh to which question
[03:19:40] <pr3d4t0r> 18:19 < ramza3> pr3d4t0r, you sure do like working, 3 months seems like vacation time
[03:20:11] <ramza3> pr3d4t0r, were you looking for work during a 3 month timeframe, seems like time to take a vacation
[03:20:25] * pr3d4t0r smacks ramza3
[03:20:41] <ricky_clarkson> I'd like a month in Spain.
[03:20:43] <pr3d4t0r> ramza3: I'm not looking for work.  It's a 3-month contract to port one or more file systems to OS X.
[03:20:49] * ricky_clarkson notes he was saying this last year. ;(
[03:21:24] <pr3d4t0r> ramza3: I'm getting a couple of offers per week but I haven't gotten all the accomplishments I want where I'm at.
[03:22:23] <ramza3> pr3d4t0r, ah, me I want to retire early and do nothing; maybe 10 years from now
[03:22:24] <ricky_clarkson> I can feel a real productivity burst coming on.
[03:22:37] <ricky_clarkson> Probably because I'm going to be girlfriendless. ;)
[03:22:41] <mohadib> hah
[03:22:44] <pr3d4t0r> ramza3: I've been there, done that.  Then I got back on the fray.  It's more fun.
[03:22:45] <cybereal> heh
[03:23:25] <pr3d4t0r> ramza3: Madness runs in the family.  My Mum retired at 60 and began working full-time (indeed, lots of overtime) at 67.
[03:23:26] <ramza3> pr3d4t0r, yea it is hard to predict the future
[03:23:40] <pr3d4t0r> ramza3: She was going crazy with nothing to do.
[03:23:47] <ricky_clarkson> One of my workmates is about 70.
[03:23:48] <pr3d4t0r> ramza3: My Dad, similar thing.
[03:24:08] <ricky_clarkson> He codes like this:
[03:24:22] <ramza3> pr3d4t0r, we live in different worlds; my sister hasnt had a real job since she graduated 2 years ago; me I was out for a while
[03:24:24] <ricky_clarkson> class X {class y{ class Z{class DEF}}}}
[03:24:29] <ramza3> too
[03:24:46] <pr3d4t0r> ramza3: I was out of work for about 5 months.  It sucked.
[03:24:59] <ricky_clarkson> I've only been technically unemployed for 1.5 months.
[03:25:04] <cybereal> My grandpa got into politics due to being bored of retirement...
[03:25:14] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: That's what my Mum does.
[03:25:31] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: She's a city councilwoman for a city of about 750,000 souls.
[03:25:37] <dibblego> I'm retiring this afternoon
[03:25:37] <ramza3> ... but then again, I am here at work still
[03:25:52] <ricky_clarkson> dibblego: on yer bike.
[03:25:59] <dibblego> it's raining
[03:26:05] <dibblego> I'll wait for it to pass
[03:26:10] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: yeah, same with my gramps... councilman for a smaller city, more like 200k but same idea.  He's in his last term though, he's done after this I think.
[03:26:33] <ricky_clarkson> dibblego: You're in Australia, it's not allowed to rain.
[03:26:46] <ricky_clarkson> Or if it does, no Brits are supposed to know.
[03:26:46] *** baegle has joined ##java
[03:26:49] <dibblego> yeah, we drink Coke and nothing else
[03:27:05] <ramza3> cybereal, how hard is it to get into local govt
[03:27:09] <ricky_clarkson> And Fosters and Carling.
[03:27:16] <dibblego> wtf is Carling?
[03:27:18] <cybereal> ramza3: dunno, I wasn't involved
[03:27:25] <baegle> Is it still possible for java applets to connect to a browser's javascript engine? I keep hearing about netscape.javascript package but I can't find how to get it.
[03:27:31] <ricky_clarkson> Oh, I thought Carling was supposed to be Aussie, nm.
[03:27:34] *** grifis has quit IRC
[03:27:54] <ricky_clarkson> baegle: JSObject.
[03:27:56] <cybereal> damnit ffxi servers are down til 9pm... just in time for my girlfriend to get off work and demand my attention so I can't even play... I hate that!  *sigh* I'm going to buy a book maybe.  Bye.
[03:28:08] *** grifis has joined ##java
[03:28:08] <ricky_clarkson> ffxi?
[03:28:16] <baegle> ricky_clarkson: from where?
[03:28:19] <ricky_clarkson> ciao grifis.
[03:28:29] <ramza3> final fantasy 11?
[03:28:31] <ricky_clarkson> baegle: From google.
[03:28:53] *** [bono] has joined ##java
[03:29:22] <[bono]> Hibernate Question: I get a "exception setting property value with CGLIB" when loading a table entry containing a nullable null field through a createQuery.list().iterate() call... Any idea?
[03:32:50] *** Nocker has left ##java
[03:33:19] <dibblego> damn, I wasn't fired
[03:34:00] <dibblego> I'll just have to sit here and twiddle my thumbs
[03:35:02] *** enervate has joined ##java
[03:35:35] * ricky_clarkson recalls the email sent for the position of Tony Morris' old job.
[03:36:37] <ricky_clarkson> I don't own any cities, so I probably don't have enough points to go anywhere except South Australia (the state).
[03:37:12] <dibblego> even if I didn't like you, I wouldn't tell you to take my job
[03:37:50] <ricky_clarkson> What foreign languages to Aussie kids study?
[03:38:06] <dibblego> German, French, Japanese
[03:38:07] <ricky_clarkson> s/to/do/
[03:38:23] <ricky_clarkson> German must be even less useful there than it is here.
[03:38:35] <ricky_clarkson> Why not Chinese?
[03:38:41] <dibblego> no idea
[03:39:15] <ricky_clarkson> German, French, Spanish here.
[03:39:17] <baegle> I've been googling for this library all day and I can't find any way to download it. They all discuss it, but any link to netscape or mozilla is outdated.
[03:39:30] <ricky_clarkson> baegle: Google for JSObject.
[03:40:11] <baegle> am
[03:40:32] <ricky_clarkson> Google harder! ;)
[03:43:22] <grifis> why if i use PrintWriter.println() instead of print() my C server recv the bytes??
[03:43:35] <dibblego> because it flushed
[03:43:42] <dibblego> call flush after print
[03:44:05] <ricky_clarkson> He did actually in the code he posted.
[03:44:24] <ricky_clarkson> Maybe the C server is looking for the end of a line.
[03:44:32] <grifis> i changed everything...i'm trying a sample echoserver.c and echoclient.java
[03:44:37] <dibblego> the server side is buffering or something
[03:44:56] <ricky_clarkson> grifis: Does telnet work?
[03:45:18] <grifis> yes
[03:46:27] <dvoss> I seem to be running into a problem with initialization order. I have a class (A) with an inner classes (B). B's constructor needs to access a member variable of A, but inside B's constructor, A is null. What should I do?
[03:46:47] <dibblego> refactor
[03:46:51] *** cybereal has quit IRC
[03:46:53] <dibblego> bidirectional dependancies are nasty
[03:47:22] *** Parisi has joined ##java
[03:53:46] *** Folgore has joined ##java
[03:54:40] <Folgore> how do I convert an int value directly to a character like 82 is capital R?
[03:54:58] <dibblego> char c = (char)i;
[03:55:51] *** dvoss has quit IRC
[03:56:23] <Folgore> thanks
[03:56:43] *** vate has quit IRC
[04:00:44] *** blackfalcon has quit IRC
[04:03:20] *** ricky_clarkson has quit IRC
[04:05:44] <Torquemada> would that work with autoboxing?
[04:05:52] <Torquemada> like char c = i
[04:05:58] <dibblego> no
[04:06:07] <dibblego> unless i is a constant
[04:06:12] <dibblego> which has nothing to do with autoboxing
[04:06:26] <dibblego> s/is a constant/is a constant and is within range
[04:07:51] *** ramza3 has quit IRC
[04:08:22] <dibblego> and a constant is not the same thing as a final
[04:08:49] *** enervate has quit IRC
[04:09:24] *** enervate has joined ##java
[04:11:12] *** Parisi has quit IRC
[04:12:17] *** Tartaros has quit IRC
[04:16:38] *** Clackwell has quit IRC
[04:19:57] *** Clackwell has joined ##java
[04:20:25] *** Geren has joined ##java
[04:20:27] <Geren> hi
[04:20:51] <Geren> if i was asked to talk about the differences between java and c++, what can i say, other than the obvious fact that java runs on a vm and is slower but more portable
[04:21:13] <Clackwell> Geren: you might even want to rethink that part.
[04:21:17] <dibblego> I've always wondered how a language specification is slower
[04:21:29] <Clackwell> hi dibble
[04:21:33] <dibblego> hey mate
[04:21:34] <Geren> ok well java progarms run slower
[04:21:37] <Geren> but anyway
[04:21:39] <dibblego> they do?
[04:21:41] <Geren> what other things can i talk about
[04:21:44] <dibblego> slower than what?
[04:21:52] <Geren> i know that java has garbage collection and u dun have to worry about pointers
[04:21:54] <Clackwell> Geren: yes, they universally run slower. it is never any different.
[04:22:25] <Clackwell> Geren: http://www.google.com/search?complete=1&hl=en&q=differences+java+c%2B%2B&btnG=Google+Search
[04:23:02] *** cored has joined ##java
[04:23:24] <Honk^away> although one can create some examples, where java performs better than c++ :P
[04:23:43] <Clackwell> Honk^away: you are lying, i don't hear you, LALALAALALALA
[04:23:47] <dibblego> "performs better", "slower", can anyone define these terms?
[04:23:52] * Clackwell covers his ears
[04:24:38] <dibblego> IRC is slower than HTTP
[04:24:41] <Honk^away> dibblego: you can write examples, where java finishes a certain task faster than c++ ;)
[04:24:47] *** cybereal has joined ##java
[04:24:50] <Honk^away> that's all i said :)
[04:24:53] * Clackwell goes through those pages claiming to explain or list the differences and searches for the word "slow" on each
[04:24:59] <Clackwell> dibblego: damn right!
[04:25:04] <Geren> ok anyway
[04:25:05] <dibblego> Honk^away: sure, that goes without saying
[04:25:05] *** rbd has joined ##java
[04:25:12] <Honk^away> dibblego: thanks :)
[04:25:25] <cybereal> damn bookstore has nothing but java and html/php/xml crap ... nothing on ML.  I hate ordering stuff online :(
[04:25:37] <dibblego> for example, I could write a C++ application that took 43 years to add 2 and 2, while I could write a much faster Java application
[04:25:42] <dibblego> it's certainly a possibility
[04:26:12] <jwormy> that would be humorous
[04:26:13] <Honk^away> dibblego: gah
[04:26:15] <dibblego> in fact, I could take any C++ application that adds 2 and 2 and make it run for 43 years
[04:26:18] <rbd> hey guys. I have a java applet that reads in streamed audio data (via a audioinputstream) and outputs it to a sourcedataline...pretty standard. However, I'd like to be able to add a waveform visualization component to it so that users can see the waveform in realtime as its streaming in (just some eye candy)..is something like this already available for java?
[04:26:20] <Honk^away> with basically the same code ;)
[04:26:32] <dibblego> "basically the same code", please define this terminology
[04:26:33] <jwormy> dibblego, but the same java code would run for 59 years...
[04:26:57] <dibblego> the point is, it's a massive over-simplification that falls to bits once you try to define an axiom
[04:27:08] <dibblego> much like many other things in software development
[04:27:25] <dibblego> that people often think is some kind of eternal truth
[04:27:44] <dibblego> I've seen people get angry because they refuse to accept that "Java is slower than C++" may be false
[04:27:51] <Geren> why is not having multiple inheritance in java a good thing
[04:28:00] <dibblego> it does have multiple inheritance
[04:28:06] <Geren> i mean it has interfaces
[04:28:13] <Geren> where a class can implement multiple interfaces
[04:28:20] <dibblego> why does Java having concrete inheritance a bad thing?
[04:28:35] *** vinse has quit IRC
[04:28:35] <Geren> but why is that an advantage over C++'s multiple inheritance?
[04:28:40] <dibblego> interface I{}interface J{}interface K extends I, J{}
[04:28:54] <dibblego> Geren: you can google that, but the reasoning is entirely flawed
[04:29:03] <Geren> dibblego, right, how is that different than C++'s multiple inheritance
[04:29:05] <Geren> and why is that better?
[04:29:21] <dibblego> Geren: because inheriting concrete behaviour is an implicit software requirement defect
[04:29:28] <Honk^away> Geren: if you have to classes with the same method
[04:29:31] <Geren> defect? why?
[04:29:33] <Honk^away> and try to extend both, which one is used?
[04:29:41] <dibblego> I am writing a book; I answer it there
[04:30:00] <Honk^away> *two
[04:30:00] <dibblego> you can google up some very lame explanations though
[04:30:04] <dibblego> in the meantime
[04:30:05] <jwormy> thats his way of saying 'buy my book'
[04:30:08] <Geren> Honk^away, well how does C++ solve that issue??
[04:30:12] *** Azrael_- has quit IRC
[04:30:22] <Honk^away> Geren: it wont compile, i think =)
[04:30:38] <Geren> hmm ok
[04:30:45] <dibblego> nothing to do with buying my book; the pioint is, I won't paste a few hundred pages of text in the channel
[04:31:15] <dibblego> I'll probably never finish it anyway
[04:31:15] <Geren> and in java that's not an issue because interface are not allowed to have concrete methods, so when a class implemnts each interface, it must provicdes its own method
[04:31:17] <Geren> right?
[04:31:29] <dibblego> Geren: that's an over-simplification, but that'll do
[04:31:40] <dibblego> interfaces can have concrete methods, but usually don't
[04:31:57] <dibblego> and classes that implement interfaces needn't define interface methods, unless they are non-abstract
[04:32:07] <Geren> but what if i have two interfaces, each with a method of the same name. Then my class implements both interfaces, and provides only one definition for that method, since it's the same name
[04:32:15] <dibblego> Geren: TIAS
[04:32:25] <Honk^away> Geren: well, that's the problem ;)
[04:32:31] <dibblego> that's not a problem at all
[04:32:34] <dibblego> think about it some more
[04:32:43] <Honk^away> dibblego: only if the methods are supposed to do different stuff
[04:32:59] <Honk^away> .. if they're badly named that is :)
[04:33:11] <Geren> Honk^away, so i can provide one definition to one method, even though they are defined in both interfaces
[04:33:19] <Honk^away> Geren: sure
[04:33:20] <Geren> i mean they are inclouded in boht interfaces, not defined
[04:33:21] <dibblego> if you inherit two contracts that you can't meet, it has little to do with the contracts themselves
[04:33:36] <Honk^away> dibblego: huh?
[04:33:44] <dibblego> never mind
[04:33:45] <Geren> Honk^away, what if i want each interface to have a different definition of the method with the same name?
[04:33:53] <Honk^away> you might be able to meet 'em, if they didnt have the same method names :)
[04:34:01] <Honk^away> Geren: you dont want that :P
[04:34:02] <Geren> how would i distinguish which method belongs to which interface in my class?
[04:34:12] <dibblego> I am talking in terms of the correct unorthodox software design process
[04:34:18] <Honk^away> if you need that, something with your interfaces is screwed
[04:34:48] <Geren> like say i have an interface called human, and other interface called animal. And both interfaces have a method called "walk". And i want the human's walk to be different than the animal's walk. but they are both called walk
[04:35:02] <dibblego> they should teach DBC in school; instead of this stupid crap
[04:35:11] <Geren> if i have a class that implements both human and animal, how would i write my walk methods?
[04:35:18] <Geren> to distinguish these 2 different walks
[04:35:27] <dibblego> Geren: you can't meet both contracts
[04:35:33] <Geren> so i can't do that?
[04:35:40] <Geren> i have to rename them to be walk1 and walk2?
[04:35:47] <dibblego> you can redefine a new contract that is a subtype of another contract
[04:35:51] <dibblego> no, that is fugly
[04:35:54] <dibblego> contracts are forever
[04:35:56] <Geren> what the heck is a contract???
[04:35:59] <dibblego> unlike implementations
[04:36:02] <dibblego> gah
[04:36:16] <dibblego> it's what most people erroneously believe is an interface declaration
[04:36:30] <dibblego> I give up anyway
[04:36:35] <dibblego> sorry for ranting
[04:36:52] <Honk^away> Geren: if you have a class that's a human and an animal..
[04:37:06] <Honk^away> would that class walk in two different ways?
[04:37:12] <Honk^away> make that class some.. thing ;)
[04:37:29] <Honk^away> it would only walk in one specific way :]
[04:37:44] *** YD has joined ##java
[04:38:16] <jwormy> you should like
[04:38:32] *** dogger has joined ##java
[04:38:45] <jwormy> have a 'creature' interface.. with a walking method that you'd have to implement.... make animal and human both implement creature w00t
[04:38:57] <dogger> hi does anyone know of any libraries that do async dns lookups on java? I can't afford to block on each dns lookup
[04:40:10] <Clackwell> dogger: multithreading?
[04:40:37] <dogger> no single thread
[04:41:05] <Clackwell> dogger: use multithreading?
[04:41:19] <dogger> err no
[04:41:26] <dogger> threads are evil and inefficient
[04:41:35] <Clackwell> oh right, i forgot
[04:41:54] <dogger> this thing has to be fast
[04:42:07] <Clackwell> and threads are not, because...?
[04:42:14] *** baegle has quit IRC
[04:42:26] <dogger> ok. lets say I want to lookup 200 entries at once
[04:42:28] <Clackwell> +multiple
[04:42:36] <dogger> you expect me to context switch between 200 threads?
[04:42:43] <Clackwell> dogger: so tell a thread or a bunch of threads to do so. <shrug>
[04:42:56] <Clackwell> dogger: not much context switching to a busy thread, last i heard.
[04:43:17] <Clackwell> erh...a thread in WAIT state, rather.
[04:43:20] <dogger> thats for the idea, but threads are and usually should be a very last resort when network programming
[04:43:27] *** grifis has quit IRC
[04:43:57] * Clackwell holds his feet up, to not affect the broad wiping
[04:44:14] *** deedaw has quit IRC
[04:44:45] <Honk^away> async dns lookup is pretty pointless in most cases ;)
[04:45:00] <dogger> why do you say that???
[04:45:06] <dogger> why would it be pointless?
[04:45:32] <dogger> currently my thread is spending most of its time waiting for DNS responses, and only sending out dns queries one at a time
[04:45:49] <Honk^away> why do you want to look up dns entries?
[04:45:55] <Honk^away> i dont say _always_
[04:45:58] <dogger> why does that matter?
[04:46:16] <dogger> my requirement is to resolve many hostnames a second
[04:46:17] <Honk^away> but an app that specficially looks up dns entries is some special case, isnt it? ;)
[04:46:32] <dogger> not really
[04:46:34] <Honk^away> dogger: then have many threads do it.. or write a client yourself :)
[04:46:38] <dogger> just run of the mill network programming
[04:46:51] <dogger> yeah I'll write one myself if I cant find one already done
[04:48:21] <Honk^away> dogger: what i wanted to say is, that usually it's pointless cuz you want do do something with the ips you look up :)
[04:48:33] <dogger> of course you do
[04:48:40] <dogger> async doesnt change that does it now
[04:48:41] <Geren> in any case, what does it mean if i declare a variable to be static
[04:48:55] <Geren> like whats the difference between static int a =3; and int a=3;
[04:48:58] <Honk^away> dogger: nah not really =)
[04:48:59] <Geren> in my Main()
[04:49:08] <Honk^away> btw.. what's wrong with just using some worker threads?
[04:49:27] <dogger> oh god
[04:49:34] <dogger> please try not to be amateur
[04:49:42] <Honk^away> aw cmon :P
[04:49:55] <Honk^away> at least it'd work :)
[04:50:00] <dogger> threads are for people who cannot program finite state machines
[04:50:05] <dogger> I'm not interested in it working
[04:50:11] <dogger> I'm interested in it being shitfast
[04:51:00] <Torquemada> then use c++, hahaha
[04:51:03] <Torquemada> :/
[04:51:22] <dogger> oh dear god give me strength
[04:51:39] <Honk^away> dogger: guess you'll have to implement it yourself
[04:51:46] *** Mot has quit IRC
[04:52:13] *** Geren has quit IRC
[04:54:37] *** Nippa has joined ##java
[04:54:52] *** Sancezz has quit IRC
[05:00:22] *** jmop has quit IRC
[05:08:42] *** cfh_dev has joined ##java
[05:08:59] *** dogger has quit IRC
[05:16:35] *** CrewdenX has left ##java
[05:18:17] *** Ryugi has quit IRC
[05:19:12] *** Nippa has quit IRC
[05:20:57] *** Nippa has joined ##java
[05:22:08] *** alex_f has quit IRC
[05:22:28] *** alex_f has joined ##java
[05:22:35] <Clackwell> Honk^away: "trust me, i know what i am doing and talking about"-but-chances-are-he's-got-something-wrong-anyway
[05:24:13] *** cfh_dev has quit IRC
[05:30:24] *** Mot has joined ##java
[05:42:29] *** earl3982 has joined ##java
[05:43:31] *** kadams has joined ##java
[05:51:17] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Ping...
[05:51:21] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Did you fetch the books?
[05:51:22] *** timofeyc has quit IRC
[05:54:08] <pr3d4t0r> w00t!
[05:54:15] <pr3d4t0r> I'm quoted in a Chinese web site :D
[05:54:35] <cored> lo pr3d4t0r
[05:59:26] <pr3d4t0r> cored: d00d.
[06:00:50] <pr3d4t0r> w00t!
[06:00:56] <pr3d4t0r> Quoted in German too :)
[06:01:35] *** earl3982 has quit IRC
[06:02:54] *** HoNgOuru has quit IRC
[06:03:17] <dibblego> how do you say 'delete' in Spanish? or better, where is a decent online translator?
[06:04:22] <cored> dibblego: borrar
[06:04:35] <dibblego> there is no button that says that
[06:05:13] <pr3d4t0r> dibblego: Eliminar.
[06:05:17] <pr3d4t0r> dibblego: Remover.
[06:05:19] <dibblego> Recibir, Suprimir, Ver/Editar, Exportar/Importar, Volver a crear peticion
[06:05:24] <pr3d4t0r> dibblego: Suprimir.
[06:05:28] <dibblego> thanks
[06:05:31] <pr3d4t0r> dibblego: Suppress.
[06:06:11] * cored keeps reading about Ruby
[06:11:25] *** Azrael_- has joined ##java
[06:11:54] *** Torquemada has quit IRC
[06:13:18] *** Nippa has quit IRC
[06:15:01] *** Reikon has joined ##java
[06:15:05] <Reikon> hola
[06:15:51] <Reikon> Just wondering, but, there isn't a built in secure delete function in java is there?
[06:16:04] <dibblego> secure delete of what?
[06:16:11] <Reikon> files
[06:16:20] <dibblego> how do you securely delete a file?
[06:17:13] <Reikon> overwrite each byte's memory location with a character, then a random character, then verify
[06:17:20] <Reikon> 7 times
[06:17:23] <Reikon> at least
[06:17:25] <Clackwell> no, 8 times
[06:17:30] <Clackwell> , better 10000 times
[06:17:35] <dibblego> are you aware that doesn't mean that the data is not recoverable?
[06:17:40] <Reikon> yes
[06:17:49] <dibblego> the answer to your question is "no"
[06:18:10] <Reikon> but i wrote an encryption program...and it just uses file.delete() on the original file
[06:18:22] <Reikon> and people are bitching "oh it's not secure!" pfft
[06:18:40] <Clackwell> shame, what can we do, what can we do?!
[06:18:47] <dibblego> then why not produce a paper about why they are stupid?
[06:18:54] * Clackwell isn't sure this topic is even worth a single word on irc
[06:19:18] <dibblego> I get stupid customers *every* single day
[06:19:26] <Reikon> meh..because then i'd get carpels tunnel bitching them out when i could be making the program better heh
[06:19:30] <dibblego> you can tell them they are stupid, that's fine; diplomacy is key
[06:19:33] <Reikon> yeah i can't imagine
[06:19:41] <Reikon> hell it must be
[06:20:12] <dibblego> it's better if you give them an opportunity to tell themselves that they are stupid, but that sometimes fails; arrogance and egotism are rife
[06:20:16] <Reikon> i wrote a simple one, that uses a random BigInteger of 1024 bits and overwrites the file 2 times with 128 bytes of data, but it's blatantly obvious it's not "secure"
[06:20:22] <Reikon> 7 times
[06:20:24] <Reikon> meh
[06:20:27] <Clackwell> or just do some additional stuff (see above) and claim to securely delete the files, then move on, until someone else whines.
[06:20:31] <Reikon> how the hell i typo that bad?
[06:20:33] <Clackwell> chances are no one will whine anymore.
[06:20:34] *** cored has quit IRC
[06:20:38] <Reikon> lol..it's GNU GPL...
[06:20:38] <dibblego> ask them for their definition of "secure", then discredit it
[06:20:50] <Reikon> they can view the source and call out my bluff
[06:21:10] <dibblego> concede to the chaos
[06:21:11] <Clackwell> Reikon: wiping out files like you described above is a bluff?
[06:21:15] *** dibblego has quit IRC
[06:21:43] <Clackwell> Reikon: in that case i agree with dibblego to demand of them a specific explanation of how to securely delete files.
[06:22:09] *** dibblego has joined ##java
[06:22:13] <Reikon> Basically my reply was that it's not a file deletion utility, it's a file encryption utility.
[06:22:14] <Clackwell> re dib
[06:22:45] <Clackwell> Reikon: still it is centered around data protection, and the point they brought up could derail it, couldn't it?
[06:23:01] <Reikon> not really...i wrote it in java for portability.
[06:23:10] <Clackwell> what does java have to do with this?
[06:23:10] <Reikon> secure files for transport
[06:23:46] <Reikon> the fact i wrote it in the language and was wondering if there was a simple way to delete a file securely similar to delete() before i went into more depth of searching for it or writing it
[06:23:53] <Clackwell> "i use java, thus none of your concerns applies"?
[06:24:28] <Reikon> haha...more like "i wrote the program for secure transport, not secure storage. Banks don't store their money in armoured cars for a reason"
[06:25:14] *** ijoyce has joined ##java
[06:25:32] <Clackwell> depending on their demands it may be trivial to implement. i would rather check back with them what they really want.
[06:25:47] <Clackwell> if you can make them happy with 1, 2 hours of your time, why not? i assume these are paying customers...
[06:26:06] <Reikon> lmfao
[06:26:10] <dibblego> lol, after 2 days using a debugger, waiting 20 minutes between button presses, the problem is solved. Some fucktard has used a button's associated "action command" (ActionListener) for logic, and when the locale is set to Spanish (or anything but English), it's not equal to "Apply" anymore
[06:26:14] <Reikon> GNU GPL is open source, free software
[06:26:16] <dibblego> fuck this job is for retards
[06:26:24] <Clackwell> and if you can point out why their concern does not apply, just as good. i am not sure your answer cleared it up for them.
[06:27:00] <Clackwell> Reikon: so what? you get no money from them, not through consulting or anything else? ok, then send them a "fuck you, no support, you dickheads!" email i guess
[06:27:13] <Reikon> lmfao
[06:27:28] <Clackwell> ;)
[06:27:42] <dibblego> I can see what the solution will be if(e.getActionCommand().equals("Apply") || (e.getActionCommand().equals("Aplicar") && locale.equals("ES")) ...
[06:27:51] <slava> hi dibblego
[06:27:55] <dibblego> hey mate
[06:28:03] <Clackwell> dibblego: nice one :)
[06:28:18] <dibblego> Clackwell: the humour is lost for me I'm afraid; I expect this
[06:28:23] * Clackwell pokes slava in the factor
[06:28:56] <slava> dibblego: clearly the solution here is to make a GUI wizard that can generate such localized conditional statements
[06:29:14] *** cored has joined ##java
[06:29:15] <dibblego> slava: I started writing it, but I ran out of time; I'll do it manually for now
[06:29:21] <Clackwell> yeah, slava, but the wizard would have to be a plugin for eclipse, too.
[06:29:33] *** cored has quit IRC
[06:29:35] <dibblego> it should be a one-button Eclipse operation
[06:29:46] <dibblego> I'm going to open a defect against Eclipse
[06:29:53] <Clackwell> the magic "Unfuck selected code" button?
[06:30:00] <dibblego> lol
[06:30:13] <slava> they should have a wizard that uses babelfish to localize your app
[06:30:19] <Reikon> Java needs a free Interface Builder...
[06:30:31] <Reikon> bloody Eclipse plugins don't work
[06:30:36] <Reikon> and $300 for one is daft
[06:30:37] <slava> dibblego: think the result will pass?
[06:30:39] <Clackwell> slava: internet age...online translation of texts via babelfish!
[06:30:57] <dibblego> slava: that is actually a good idea compared to some of the other fucktardedness
[06:31:00] <cybereal> Reikon: netbeans
[06:31:01] <Clackwell> Reikon: there are jbuilder, netbeans, abeille and others, as far as i know.
[06:31:27] <slava> Clackwell: interface builder on mac os is pretty slick. you can even use it with C apps :) it stores data in a custom text format
[06:31:36] *** cored has joined ##java
[06:32:17] <Clackwell> slava: that sucks. guis should be described in many lines of code of a programming language. at least it should use xml. clearly the program was written by morons.
[06:32:52] <Reikon> lmfao
[06:32:54] <slava> Clackwell: <no comment>
[06:32:58] <Reikon> i <3 interface builder
[06:33:06] <Reikon> cocoa java is teh shiznit
[06:33:13] <slava> cocoa java is no longer maintained my friend
[06:33:17] <slava> apple dropped it
[06:33:21] <Reikon> no they didn't
[06:33:23] <slava> yes they did
[06:33:26] <Reikon> prove it >_>
[06:33:30] *** tvn has joined ##java
[06:33:30] <slava> its cocoa objective-c now
[06:33:38] <slava> i have a mac, i have xcode
[06:33:40] <Reikon> cocoa is written in objc
[06:33:47] <slava> in the docs, cocoa-java is in the 'deprecated features' section
[06:33:54] <slava> the first item in the docs is cocoa-obj c docs
[06:33:58] <Clackwell> for java it should use jython or some more bizarre scripting language to describe the layout, and incorporate xml somewhere along the lines, in as obnoxious as fashion as possible.
[06:34:10] <slava> Clackwell: actually python is ok for describing guis, because it has literal hash map syntax
[06:34:11] <Reikon> it' snot dicontinued
[06:34:13] <Clackwell> everyone would love it.
[06:34:20] <Reikon> they never would pull that shit
[06:34:21] *** wcstok has quit IRC
[06:34:30] <slava> Clackwell: i've been working on my gui toolkit for a year now, its reached 2400 lines of code :)
[06:34:35] <Reikon> intel switch? ok ditching java? hell no
[06:34:41] <slava> they're not ditching java.
[06:34:42] <Clackwell> slava: you mean myArray["some index"] ?
[06:34:46] <cybereal> Reikon: you're a nut
[06:34:51] <Clackwell> slava: bloat!
[06:34:52] <cybereal> Reikon: you want a cookie?
[06:34:56] <Reikon> yes
[06:34:57] <slava> they're just ditching a non-portable java extension they had
[06:34:57] <cybereal> ~bomb reikon
[06:34:57] * javabot drops a humongous exploding turd on reikon
[06:35:02] <slava> nobody used it ianyway
[06:35:05] <slava> if you're writing java code, why call cocoa
[06:35:10] <slava> and if you're writing cocoa, why not use obj-c
[06:35:14] <Reikon> um....
[06:35:16] <Reikon> objc is fugly
[06:35:18] <slava> cocoa does not have gc
[06:35:19] <Reikon> thats a good reason
[06:35:22] *** cored has quit IRC
[06:35:23] <slava> so using cocoa from java is a pain anyway
[06:35:25] <slava> you have to count references
[06:35:30] <Reikon> no it's not
[06:35:30] *** cored has joined ##java
[06:35:34] <slava> objc at least makes this a bit easier syntax-wise
[06:35:35] <Reikon> it's wiked easy
[06:35:41] <slava> refcounting is lame
[06:35:43] <Reikon> objc is just too damned ugly
[06:35:46] <slava> its very error-prone
[06:35:47] <slava> objc is good
[06:35:51] <Reikon> no it's not
[06:35:53] <slava> if it ihad GC, it would be better than java
[06:35:59] <Reikon> after writing C it looks like a bloody abomination
[06:36:03] <slava> it has a very nice reflection API
[06:36:06] <slava> C has no reflection
[06:36:15] <Reikon> C from hell
[06:36:32] <slava> you can call methods by name at runtime, construct objects with runtime-specified class names, etc, and you can even add methods to classes on the fly
[06:36:38] <slava> try that in C++...
[06:36:39] <Clackwell> ugliness is in the eye of the beholder, and programmers tend to be lousy and very inconsistent beholders.
[06:36:47] <Reikon> "oh those brackets are used for arrays in C...wellllll let's use them for a completely different purpose...."
[06:36:56] <slava> you mean the message send syntax?
[06:36:59] <Reikon> yes
[06:37:01] <Reikon> it's ugly...
[06:37:02] <slava> it gives you named arguments
[06:37:10] <Reikon> it's daft
[06:37:16] <slava> C syntax is daft in the first place
[06:37:22] <Reikon> pfft
[06:37:25] <Reikon> C syntax owns u
[06:37:42] <slava> i've never seen a language with C-like syntax express closures well
[06:37:57] *** map7 has quit IRC
[06:38:05] <slava> as far as C-like syntax goes, obj-c is the best
[06:38:12] <Reikon> hell....no
[06:38:20] <slava> id foo; /* dynamic typing! */
[06:38:31] <Reikon> i and half my C knowing friends would crap on ObjC
[06:38:40] <Reikon> the other half re too busy programming
[06:38:42] <slava> half your C knowing friends don't know jack buddy
[06:40:00] <MrPrimate> obj-c sounds cool to me
[06:40:03] <wenko> http://qdb.us/?search=JAVA&order=quote_id&sort=asc&limit=25&approved=1
[06:41:08] <MrPrimate> C is antique
[06:41:43] <Reikon> C works
[06:41:48] <Reikon> Unix works
[06:41:56] <Reikon> thats why they're about 40 years old now
[06:41:58] <Reikon> and still around
[06:41:59] *** [bono] has quit IRC
[06:42:13] <slava> COBOL is still around too
[06:42:17] <slava> so is FORTRAN 77
[06:42:32] <slava> go use punch cards :)
[06:44:03] <MrPrimate> can anyone help me figure out how to change out the RootPaneUI ?
[06:44:23] <MrPrimate> I can get my RootPane from the JFrame but I can't seem to swap out with my own custom ver of RootPaneUI
[06:45:56] <MrPrimate> shit
[06:45:59] <MrPrimate> it's as simple as setUI
[06:46:01] <MrPrimate> fuck me
[06:46:06] <slava> why are you changing the root pane UI?
[06:46:25] <slava> isn't that inherently L&F specific?
[06:46:35] <slava> what if FooLooKAndFeel wants to use its own RootPaneUI, but your app breaks?
[06:47:09] <MrPrimate> but I want to change out the title bar, and only the RootPaneUI seems to let me do this
[06:48:26] *** jbalint has joined ##java
[06:48:38] <slava> change the title bar?
[06:48:48] <MrPrimate> yes, the title bar with the minimize and close buttons
[06:48:49] <MrPrimate> that one
[06:48:54] <slava> change it how?
[06:49:04] <MrPrimate> change the appearance of it
[06:49:31] <jbalint> you can set L&F decoration true or whatever and it will look like jinternalframe
[06:49:46] <jbalint> or you could draw your own.
[06:50:09] <MrPrimate> i'm trying to draw my own
[06:50:14] <MrPrimate> the only way I have figured out howt o do this
[06:50:21] <MrPrimate> is to muck with the JRootPane
[06:50:46] <MrPrimate> do you have a solution for how I can draw my own, otherwise?
[06:51:04] <jbalint> Just use a JFrame and then do frame.setUndecorated(true).
[06:51:09] <jbalint> Then you can draw your own shit.
[06:51:20] <jbalint> Do something like a border and draw it.
[06:51:24] <MrPrimate> but then I have to handle dragging and everything, and it's unresponsive
[06:51:35] <MrPrimate> why can't I just draw over the existing frame as I want to
[06:51:54] <jbalint> What exactly do you want to do?
[06:52:07] <MrPrimate> I want to draw little pictures and thing in the title bar
[06:52:14] <MrPrimate> and have it drag and things as normal,
[06:52:14] <jbalint> Hehhehe.
[06:52:22] <MrPrimate> and not simulate a title bar
[06:52:24] <jbalint> I haven't a solution then.
[06:52:25] <MrPrimate> I want the real title bar
[06:52:35] <MrPrimate> the solution is to use metal L&F and hack the JRootPane RootPaneUI
[06:52:38] <MrPrimate> ( I THINK )
[06:52:41] <MrPrimate> and i'm trying
[06:52:46] <slava> just make a sane gui
[06:52:57] <MrPrimate> sane? what fun would that be
[06:53:12] <MrPrimate> well someone is paying me to do it, so I don't mind
[06:53:15] <slava> are yo uthe guy who designed the ms office assistants?
[06:53:27] <jbalint> haha. clippy
[06:54:16] <MrPrimate> no, if I were, i'd have spent the $2.3 on hookers and crack and then shot myself in the head
[06:54:22] <MrPrimate> $2.3million
[06:54:34] <MrPrimate> because htat guy is definately going to hell  ;]
[06:54:36] <slava> you can get hookers and crack for $2.30, just poor quality
[06:55:27] <MrPrimate> that's got to be some really low quality hookers
[06:55:43] <MrPrimate> i guess you just spend the $2.30 on the crack, and do it with the hooker
[06:55:46] <MrPrimate> and then it works out
[06:56:03] <MrPrimate> saves the hooker the shortcut to the crackhouse anyways
[06:56:41] *** Chmmr has joined ##java
[06:57:55] <MrPrimate> but though, jbalint it did work
[06:58:07] <MrPrimate> jbalint, I can install some cheap hack of a title bar using the method that I approached
[06:58:16] <MrPrimate> jbalint, not that it's proper, but it works
[06:58:17] * jbalint is scared away
[06:58:25] <jbalint> i have a problem with jcombobox
[07:00:41] <MrPrimate> whats the problem
[07:00:54] <MrPrimate> you just don't like the way it's been staring at you ?
[07:01:05] <MrPrimate> i got your back
[07:01:36] <jbalint> no, its something else.
[07:02:10] <jbalint> actually the combo box editor (javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicComboBoxEditor) has this popup, and the popup uses a JScrollPane and sets the horiz scroll bar to "null".
[07:02:25] *** YD has quit IRC
[07:02:37] <jbalint> However when I change the look and feel to/from Metal, I get a NPE when the Metal UI delegate tries to uninstall itself.
[07:02:49] <jbalint> and I call SwingUtilities.updateComponentTreeUI().
[07:03:45] <jbalint> Because it tries to get the horiz scroll bar from the JScrollPane, but the BasicComboPopup set it to nul.
[07:03:51] *** ractrev has quit IRC
[07:04:56] <MrPrimate> why do you change UI while your app is running ?
[07:07:35] <jbalint> because user has the option
[07:08:04] <MrPrimate> cand you just remove the JFrame and start a new one for the new skin ?
[07:08:18] <jbalint> preferably not
[07:13:08] <cybereal> jbalint: tons of other apps do this, why do you have issues?  Just find an example
[07:13:52] <jbalint> yes i know, but for some reason jcombobox is giving me an issue.
[07:14:15] <cybereal> strange, are you using a normal JRE?
[07:14:28] <jbalint> i think some is that i am running an actionlistener on the combobox and running the L&F in that handler.
[07:14:35] <jbalint> Yes, Sun JDK 1.5.
[07:14:52] <jbalint> And since that is "visible" it will try to change it, but the horiz scroll bar is null.
[07:15:05] <jbalint> And I tried to reproduce it with a certain test-case, but am unable to.
[07:28:07] <cybereal> jbalint: maybe you should put the listener on some "Apply" button instead
[07:28:34] <jbalint> maybe i should, maybe i just want t figure it out :p
[07:32:50] *** elvin|coder has joined ##java
[07:35:16] *** mixed has joined ##java
[07:35:48] *** cored has quit IRC
[07:36:41] <elvin|coder> good day. could anyone advise me where to download j2me personal profile libs?
[07:36:59] <elvin|coder> on java.sun.com there is only linux version of pp
[07:38:03] <cybereal> what do you need it for? nobody really uses it
[07:38:07] <mixed> how does python define complex number modulo ?
[07:38:17] <mixed> like 5+9j % 1+2j
[07:38:28] <cybereal> mixed: I don't think it does
[07:38:32] <cybereal> mixed: but you might try #python
[07:38:48] <mixed> oops, i thought this is #python
[07:38:58] <jbalint> % works, but what is j?
[07:39:06] <mixed> imaginary number
[07:39:12] <jbalint> if it's sqrt -1, i dont thin it handles that for you
[07:39:25] <mixed> usully people use i, python use j
[07:39:35] <jbalint> i think alot of ppl use j
[07:39:50] <cybereal> mixed: why don't you tias anyway?
[07:39:54] <mixed> i even know people who use k
[07:39:55] <jbalint> how does python use j?
[07:39:56] <mixed> lol
[07:40:20] <cybereal> 9j % 2j got me 1j
[07:40:28] * jbalint tries
[07:40:52] <jbalint> got me a deprecation warning too
[07:40:53] <cybereal> and a deprecation warning to boot
[07:40:54] <cybereal> heh
[07:40:55] <jbalint> geg
[07:41:26] <jbalint> can you do normal modular arithmetic in python
[07:41:56] *** Bevin has quit IRC
[07:42:12] <cybereal> jbalint: yeah
[07:42:15] <elvin|coder> cybereal, ibm j9 jvm on pocket pc's supports personal profile
[07:42:16] *** Bevin has joined ##java
[07:42:18] <elvin|coder> and i do need it
[07:42:23] <jbalint> cybereal: how
[07:42:46] <cybereal> jbalint: just don't use imaginary numbers
[07:42:48] <Bevin> hi
[07:43:00] <jbalint> hi Bevin
[07:43:09] *** MrPrimate has quit IRC
[07:43:10] <jbalint> cybereal: how to do modular arithmetic thought?
[07:43:20] <cybereal> jbalint: you mean the modulus operator? or something else?
[07:44:10] <jbalint> modular arithmetic is like  mod 5 is 4 + 2 = 1, because it goes past 5. so every operation is mod 5.
[07:44:50] <cybereal> jbalint: 6 % 5 = 1, is that what you mean?
[07:45:01] <jbalint> No.
[07:45:13] <jbalint> Like 4 + 2 mod 5 = 1 mod 5
[07:45:50] <jbalint> http://www.cut-the-knot.org/blue/Modulo.shtml
[07:46:18] <mixed> it doesn't have built in modular aritehmatic
[07:46:51] <cybereal> mixed: does Numeric do that?
[07:48:09] <mixed> Numeric?
[07:48:31] <rogue-kun{B}> jbalint: umm do you meand "base 5" math ?
[07:48:33] <cybereal> yeah, Numeric, the library for math stuff in python
[07:49:10] <jbalint> rogue-kun{B}: yes, commonly known as modular arithmetic
[07:49:15] <cybereal> it's an external/third party addon set of modules
[07:49:19] <jbalint> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_arithmetic
[07:49:49] <mixed> not sure if it provides modular aritehmatic functions, but you can always write modular arithematic classes
[07:50:08] <wenko> mod is huge in java eh?
[07:50:53] <wenko> if(myInt % 2 == 0){}
[07:51:02] <rogue-kun{B}> jbalint: umm commonly know as is probe the wrong term, as I NEVER head it called that, that ive heard the term Base N a lot [including Tom Leher's New Math song]
[07:51:17] <rogue-kun{B}> it might be it's offical name though 8)
[07:53:32] <jbalint> Just becaused you didn't hear of it doesn't; make it wrong.
[07:56:17] <rogue-kun{B}> jbalint: "Commonly known as" means what most people call it, when some a math minor and have never heard the term how likly is it to be common? 8)
[07:56:31] <mixed> more technical name is Infinite Cyclic group math, heh heh heh
[07:57:07] *** hatOFF has joined ##java
[07:57:20] <hatOFF> someone online at this hour?
[07:57:28] <jbalint> rogue-kun{B}: But in base 5 math, 4 + 2 = 11, not 1. there is a difference.
[07:57:31] <rogue-kun{B}> hatOFF: Hai 8)
[07:57:31] <mixed> hmm wait actully cyclic group Z/nZ math
[07:57:44] <hatOFF> ;)
[07:57:47] *** amorph has joined ##java
[07:58:00] <hatOFF> Is there someone here that's in the mood to audit some server code?
[07:58:09] <hatOFF> about 812 lines :)
[07:58:15] <hatOFF> with comments and all.
[07:58:15] <dibblego> audit it?
[07:58:23] <dibblego> you mean pull it to bits?
[07:58:40] <hatOFF> no, just to tell me if it has security vulnerabilities
[07:58:52] <hatOFF> and to let me know a few functions of it which I do not understand
[07:58:54] <dibblego> is security the only requirement?
[07:59:28] <hatOFF> it's a server that is supposed to communicate with my Macromedia Flash game but I'm stuck somewhere at the middle.
[07:59:43] <rogue-kun{B}> jalopy public int modArth(int a int b, int base) { return (a +b) % base; }
[07:59:58] <dibblego> rogue-kun{B}: that fails
[08:00:09] <rogue-kun{B}> dibblego: how so?
[08:00:10] <hatOFF> http://duck.he.net/~hatoff/server.rar
[08:00:18] <hatOFF> take a look dibblego, please.
[08:00:25] *** DemisM has joined ##java
[08:00:31] <dibblego> final int x = modArth(Integer.MAX_VALUE, 7, 2);
[08:00:54] <dibblego> ew
[08:01:00] * dibblego closes it
[08:01:04] <hatOFF> :)
[08:01:06] <hatOFF> lol
[08:01:08] <dibblego> trying to kill someone?
[08:01:09] <hatOFF> what's wrong?
[08:01:12] *** Phoenix` has joined ##java
[08:01:13] <hatOFF> :)
[08:01:15] <dibblego> erm nothing
[08:01:17] <hatOFF> oh come on
[08:01:20] * dibblego runs away
[08:01:22] <hatOFF> it's just copy paste
[08:01:23] <hatOFF> :)
[08:01:42] <hatOFF> pretty please
[08:01:54] <hatOFF> be though and take a closer look
[08:02:09] <rogue-kun{B}> dibblego: you still not explaed why it fials, 8) if the size of int is your problem make a double and long vertions 8)
[08:02:20] <hatOFF> get directly to 	if(numeradacina.trim()=="cartit") dibblego :)
[08:02:31] *** Cordor has joined ##java
[08:02:40] <dibblego> rogue-kun{B}: and so it fails again
[08:02:55] <hatOFF> i thought freenode is the best place with coders
[08:03:02] <hatOFF> didn't had any luck on efnet, undernet...
[08:03:10] <hatOFF> are there any other coder networks?
[08:03:48] <rogue-kun{B}> dibblego, can you elbaerat, I'm not understanding in what why it fials 8)
[08:04:10] <dibblego> rogue-kun{B}: simple, execute the example I gave you; is that your expected output?
[08:05:04] <rogue-kun{B}> hatOFF: normal a test case to the pastebin is what gets you the best respont to look at the code
[08:05:25] <hatOFF> ok
[08:05:26] <hatOFF> hold on
[08:05:45] *** bimbo has joined ##java
[08:05:51] <bimbo> hello
[08:06:01] <Drone> View hatoff's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8325
[08:06:29] <hatOFF> i was going to post that Drone, but thanks.
[08:06:29] <hatOFF> :)
[08:06:35] <hatOFF> nice thing you've got there
[08:06:41] <hatOFF> too bad it isn't colored :)
[08:06:46] <dibblego> ~tell hatOFF about test case
[08:06:47] <javabot> hatOFF, test case is a minimal independently runnable program, which demonstrates the problem; see http://www.physci.org/codes/sscce.jsp for details and a HOWTO
[08:06:50] <hatOFF> hi there bimbo.
[08:06:56] <bimbo> I'm making a java program, using awt, and in a class I defined, I defined also a public variable called "Number", like this: public float Number
[08:07:11] <bimbo> however I can't use it outside this class... like for example... in another class
[08:07:15] <dibblego> bimbo: that's not very nice
[08:07:29] <hatOFF> i just need to have a few explanations dibblego, what's the java server expecting from the CLIENT, that's my question...
[08:07:32] <hatOFF> that's all.
[08:07:57] <hatOFF> what is he expecting from him? i understood that some XML... but a sample would give me a hint to move on...
[08:10:04] <bimbo> so... that's the only answer? that's not very nice?
[08:10:18] <dibblego> bimbo: what are you expecting?
[08:10:33] <dibblego> you write nasty code, you can't do something; all we can do is nod
[08:12:46] <mohadib> ~tell bimbo about test case
[08:12:46] <javabot> bimbo, test case is a minimal independently runnable program, which demonstrates the problem; see http://www.physci.org/codes/sscce.jsp for details and a HOWTO
[08:13:38] <rogue-kun{B}> dibblego: I see how it fials, it fials becuase it does not check make sure the addtion result is not bigger that the primitive
[08:14:07] <dibblego> rogue-kun{B}: right, it does not handle overflow; but you must have requirements before you can have defects
[08:14:22] <dibblego> perhaps the behaviour is undefined at a certain threshold? where is the requirement?
[08:16:37] <rogue-kun{B}> Humm have it throw NumberFormatExction if a > Integer.MAX_VALUE -b or b > Integer.MAX_VALUE -a ?
[08:17:04] <dibblego> why not handle the upper bounds? it overflows because you use the addition operator; or why not simply change the requirement?
[08:17:30] <rogue-kun{B}> dibblego elboerate please 8)
[08:18:05] <dibblego> I really don't know how; it's plain and explicit as it i
[08:18:06] <dibblego> s
[08:18:31] <rogue-kun{B}> ok define requiments meaning in this context then 8)
[08:20:06] <dibblego> I don't have any; you defined the contract, I asked you for the requirements
[08:20:08] <dibblego> I assumed them
[08:20:11] <dibblego> I may be wrong
[08:20:47] *** [GT]Kane has quit IRC
[08:21:09] <rogue-kun{B}> dibblego: jbalint defined the requirments , not me 8)
[08:21:13] *** vate has joined ##java
[08:21:22] <dibblego> no, they are incomplete
[08:21:31] *** mohadib has quit IRC
[08:21:32] <dibblego> for example, nobody defined the permitted bounds
[08:21:48] <dibblego> ultimately, all requirements expressed in English are implicitly forever defective
[08:22:03] <dibblego> but it's possible to approach something where all assumptions are reasonable
[08:23:11] <rogue-kun{B}> dibblego: requrment then hadden modialr arthmitic with the confines of java primitive int.
[08:23:17] <rogue-kun{B}> ?
[08:23:29] <dibblego> in that case, your implementation is defective, as shown
[08:23:55] <dibblego> you do not meet the stated requirement (assumptions omitted)
[08:24:14] <rogue-kun{B}> dibblego is it defect after the a, b size test is added?
[08:24:45] <dibblego> it is defective in that it doesn't handle all values of int appropriately (again, assumed), as demonstrated for at least one case
[08:25:56] <rogue-kun{B}> dibblego: how would you hande the math that is at the limitis of the Int size constraites?
[08:26:14] <dibblego> I'd simply use a long
[08:26:40] <dibblego> then write my unit tests, then worry about any implementation problems later, as long as the requirement is met
[08:27:00] <rogue-kun{B}> lol, ok 8)
[08:27:28] <rogue-kun{B}> and if it was long insead of int math thatwas the requirment? 8)
[08:27:44] <dibblego> then I'd worry more
[08:27:56] <dibblego> you should note that you're highlighting a Java language defect
[08:27:57] <bimbo> I hope I can make my self clear on this: I have a TextField object, I added an ActionListener to it, and that ActionListener gets the input text and parses it to a float number, stores it in the variable Number, what I want is to use the value of Number in a class that is outside this ActionListener...
[08:27:59] <Goc> It's obvious that I need some form of java-book, since the JavaDoc generally only documents the methods of a class, but not how to use them, and how they work. So do you have any hints on what book I should buy? I've programmed for ~10 years in around 15 different languages, so I don't need some beginners book, but more a Java-lexicon or such.
[08:28:02] <dibblego> specifically, that integral types have bounds
[08:28:14] <kinabalu> how odd .. this doorknob from the outside, only opens if you turn it left, but if you turn it right .. it does nothing ... argh
[08:28:17] <bimbo> how can I do this? I've tried making the Number variable public, but I guess that's not correct
[08:28:25] <rogue-kun{B}> dibblego doesn't C/C++ have the same problem?
[08:28:35] <dibblego> rogue-kun{B}: yes it does
[08:28:42] <dibblego> rogue-kun{B}: the Pure programming languag doesn't
[08:28:53] <dibblego> integral types are not bounded; how absurd
[08:29:00] <rogue-kun{B}> dibblego: aka the language that has not been invented yet?
[08:29:14] <dibblego> it's been invented; just not fully specified
[08:29:25] <dibblego> the longer I think about it, the better it will be - this is my consolation
[08:29:39] <dibblego> until then, I work with fucktards, looking for the way out
[08:29:57] <rogue-kun{B}> bimbo: is your varible called Number?
[08:30:03] <bimbo> rogue-kun{B}, yeah
[08:30:10] <bimbo> rogue-kun{B}, well actually no
[08:30:22] <bimbo> rogue-kun{B}, it's called Base
[08:30:30] <rogue-kun{B}> umm you know your calling your the varibe the same this as a class... http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/lang/Number.html
[08:31:14] <rogue-kun{B}> you should not call java varbie starting with a capital letter
[08:31:35] <dibblego> a) don't declare non-private fields that are non-final or of a mutable type b) follow naming convention c) then we'll talk
[08:31:50] <bimbo> rogue-kun{B}, ok, do you know the solution to the problem?
[08:32:32] <rogue-kun{B}> bimbo WHERE die you declare the varible? [sound like your problem is of scope]
[08:33:07] <bimbo> rogue-kun{B}, inside the implement ActionListener class
[08:33:30] <rogue-kun{B}> bimbo and you want to use it out side the class?
[08:35:13] *** sanj has joined ##java
[08:35:31] <sanj> can i change the colour of text logged by log4j?
[08:35:41] <dibblego> lol
[08:35:57] <bimbo> rogue-kun{B}, yes
[08:36:01] <dibblego> the color of text is not intrinsic to the text itself
[08:36:24] <dibblego> log4j merely logs; it is up to the context to apply color
[08:37:02] <sanj> so log4j cant change the text color
[08:37:11] <dibblego> of course not
[08:37:27] <dibblego> point / your head
[08:37:33] <dibblego> despite being trivial
[08:37:37] <sanj> wish it had the ability to change the color with some sort of passed in argument
[08:37:43] <rogue-kun{B}> bimbo, make a public accessort clase [like getBase()] and look into Observable
[08:37:49] *** GNU-Bedo has joined ##java
[08:37:52] <dibblego> are you trolling, or inadvertantly sounding stupid?
[08:37:57] <GNU-Bedo> Hello all
[08:38:09] <GNU-Bedo> I've a small problem
[08:38:31] <sanj> noting lol, it for easy debugging
[08:38:34] <rogue-kun{B}> bimbo public accessor methord even
[08:38:44] <sanj> is*
[08:38:55] <dibblego> sanj: I suggest you get a clue
[08:39:03] <bimbo> rogue-kun{B}, my ActionListener implemented class is called getBase, and I want to use this number to calculate an Area, when I click a button
[08:39:13] <GNU-Bedo> I've a program, under Linux, that can't start and it give me something like this:
[08:39:15] <GNU-Bedo> HO.sh: line 164: [: -lt: unary operator expected
[08:39:16] <GNU-Bedo> HO.sh: line 165: [: -eq: unary operator expected
[08:39:16] <GNU-Bedo> HO.sh: line 166: [: -eq: unary operator expected
[08:39:23] <GNU-Bedo> any suggestion?
[08:39:27] <cybereal> GNU-Bedo: go away
[08:39:32] <GNU-Bedo> uh?
[08:39:45] <rogue-kun{B}> ~tell bimbo about naming
[08:39:46] <javabot> bimbo, I guess the factoid 'naming conventions' might be appropriate:
[08:39:48] <javabot> bimbo, naming conventions is http://java.sun.com/docs/codeconv/html/CodeConventions.doc8.html
[08:40:03] <cybereal> GNU-Bedo: You managed to break a major channel rule while being completely off topic
[08:40:12] <dibblego> GNU-Bedo: this is ##java not #bash
[08:40:14] <GNU-Bedo> off topic?
[08:40:18] <GNU-Bedo> sure
[08:40:18] <rogue-kun{B}> fix that problem then ask agian your naming is messing up us helping you
[08:40:26] <cybereal> GNU-Bedo: your paste has nothing to do with java
[08:40:39] <bimbo> rogue-kun{B}, why? oh come on
[08:40:40] <GNU-Bedo> but HO.sh is a bash program but in this line he call java
[08:40:40] <ijoyce> GNU-Bedo, what shell are you using?
[08:40:49] <cybereal> GNU-Bedo: That has nothing to do with java
[08:40:57] <GNU-Bedo> Nothing to do?
[08:41:03] <rogue-kun{B}> bimbo becuase yhou use names for one thig that normal mean somthing else
[08:41:03] <cybereal> GNU-Bedo: nothing, it could be any program
[08:41:10] <rogue-kun{B}> hese whay naming convetion exist
[08:41:24] <bimbo> rogue-kun{B}, like getBase? and Area?
[08:41:37] <bimbo> I don't see a problem on using those names
[08:41:49] <dibblego> ~tell bimbo abotu codeconv
[08:41:49] <javabot> The syntax is: tell nick about factoid - you missed out the 'about', dibblego
[08:41:53] <dibblego> ~tell bimbo about codeconv
[08:41:53] <javabot> bimbo, codeconv is http://java.sun.com/docs/codeconv
[08:41:55] <rogue-kun{B}> getBase is normal a mether name, not a Class name, and Area is a Class name
[08:41:57] <cybereal> bimbo: Area is formatted as a class name
[08:41:57] <GNU-Bedo> it's simple java :)
[08:42:05] <dibblego> bimbo: 443 trillion other people see a problem
[08:42:15] <dibblego> GNU-Bedo: it is not Java, it is bash scripting; please take it there
[08:42:44] <GNU-Bedo> It's bash scripting but the problem is with java
[08:42:48] <dibblego> no it isn't
[08:43:10] <bimbo> dibblego, cybereal, rogue-kun{B}, ok, I changed the name, Arita, I never thought this'll be so difficult
[08:43:10] <dibblego> http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/ccYdHd35.html
[08:43:22] <dibblego> bimbo: but you didn't read the code conventions, did you?
[08:43:37] <cybereal> dibblego: did a moron tanker crash here?
[08:43:53] <dibblego> cybereal: I'm beginning to wonder, but then, it is freenode ##java after all
[08:43:57] <bimbo> dibblego, I will, I promise I will, I'm tired and this is some school homework I need to make, I need to study some other stuff and have a lot of things inside my head
[08:44:21] <bimbo> I just wanted to see a solution to my problem, but I thing it's beyond what I thought it'll be
[08:44:23] <dibblego> bimbo: it will take you 20 minutes, and you'll be a better person with which we can much more easily communicate with
[08:44:40] <bimbo> it's 2 am here, I need to be up at 7
[08:44:48] <dibblego> invest 20 minutes
[08:44:58] <dibblego> use your time wisely
[08:45:01] <cybereal> dibblego: java coding conventions actually help you with keeping your code clear, which in turn helps you write the code you intend to write more easily
[08:45:04] <bimbo> asdfjasdflñkj
[08:45:13] <cybereal> uh
[08:45:18] <cybereal> that was for bimbo, not dibblego
[08:45:18] <rogue-kun{B}> bimbo: but anyway I suspect you will fin the answer here: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/util/Observable.html
[08:45:24] <dibblego> cybereal: I don't entirely agree with that; but for this case, it allows a clearer communication medium
[08:45:33] <bimbo> rogue-kun{B}, thank you
[08:45:42] *** enervate has quit IRC
[08:45:48] <rogue-kun{B}> bimbo: i had told you that earlyer BTW ;)
[08:45:48] *** GNU-Bedo has left ##java
[08:46:47] <bimbo> rogue-kun{B}, yeah, but I don't know what that Observable class is
[08:46:53] <bimbo> but anyway thank you
[08:47:01] *** Phoenix` has quit IRC
[08:47:03] <cybereal> dibblego: I just think consistency in representation assists one in logical comprehension, even with something you write yourself...
[08:47:10] <rogue-kun{B}> bimbo it an interface, much like ActionListner
[08:47:15] *** ractrev has joined ##java
[08:47:24] <dibblego> cybereal: agreed, but I don't agree entirely with the Sun convention as the dogmatic form of correctness
[08:47:40] <dibblego> especially given the reasonable axiom that Sun cannot, and never will, know how to design/write software
[08:48:02] <cybereal> dibblego: heh no, I am not trying to say THAT :) but it's a good place to start
[08:48:07] <rogue-kun{B}> you use it to tell anoth class when the Observed class in changed. the the observer cand call the assessor methord on the observed class to get the infor it needs
[08:48:10] <dibblego> indeed
[08:56:14] *** mazon is now known as Mazon
[08:56:36] <bimbo> rogue-kun{B}, how about just making base public?
[08:56:37] *** doc|home has quit IRC
[08:57:02] <pr3d4t0r> 'Night.
[08:58:11] <dibblego> com.log4j.handlers.SellophaneHandler
[08:58:14] <dibblego> oops
[08:58:23] <rogue-kun{B}> bimbo I'm assuming base is int... so you better off with public int getBase() { return base;}
[08:59:20] <rogue-kun{B}> but you still need observible to tell you main class to call myActionListner.getBase()
[08:59:59] <rogue-kun{B}> and have base be private
[09:00:08] <rogue-kun{B}> it call Encapulation
[09:00:18] <rogue-kun{B}> or Data Hidding
[09:00:35] <rogue-kun{B}> Hiding even
[09:03:48] <bimbo> rogue-kun{B}, but I'm not doing it in main
[09:04:23] <bimbo> I have one class called GraficAreas
[09:04:37] <bimbo> there I defined the main function
[09:04:44] <rogue-kun{B}> ~tell bimbo about test case
[09:04:44] <javabot> bimbo, test case is a minimal independently runnable program, which demonstrates the problem; see http://www.physci.org/codes/sscce.jsp for details and a HOWTO
[09:04:52] <rogue-kun{B}> ~tell bimbo about pastebin
[09:04:53] <javabot> bimbo, Paste your code, preferably a test case, any errors, and any other relevant information into the pastebin and tell us the URL: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin
[09:05:24] <bimbo> but I don't have any comments yet... will it matter?
[09:05:46] <rogue-kun{B}> if it a minimual example of your problem then no
[09:05:59] <rogue-kun{B}> but you should comment as you wright 8)
[09:06:21] <bimbo> rogue-kun{B}, I was actually going to paste the whole code...
[09:06:45] * rogue-kun{B} point to the above line about test case
[09:07:16] *** Danielle has joined ##java
[09:08:16] <bimbo> http://pastebin.ca/25463
[09:08:20] <bimbo> I know you all love test cases
[09:08:54] <bimbo> but there's no test case in that code... if anyone cares to take a look at it it'll be great, if not, well, not much I can do
[09:09:54] <rogue-kun{B}> bimbo, having to reduce it to a test case a) make it easyer for use to see what your problem is [esple in Big programs] and b) help you "see" your own logic
[09:11:38] *** ramir3z has joined ##java
[09:12:03] <rogue-kun{B}> bimbo first and formost chnage class getBase  to class GetBase .... that is a big problem
[09:12:21] <rogue-kun{B}> and it chnages your accsess into a construtor
[09:12:37] <ijoyce> that code hurts my brain
[09:13:42] <ijoyce> classes starting with a lower case char makes baby jesus cry
[09:14:48] <rogue-kun{B}> bimbo: agian your pobe is your main class does not know when you action class has chnaged, so it does know to call your obsever, You need to look into Observer/Observible
[09:16:36] *** putzel has joined ##java
[09:18:12] <ijoyce> anyone have a good set of checkstyle rules they care to share?
[09:22:53] <rogue-kun{B}> bimbo: http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Programming/KeepObjectsInSync/index.html
[09:23:10] *** fuso has joined ##java
[09:25:52] <cybereal> !seen slava
[09:25:54] <Drone> slava is currently online in ##java and last spoke on Fri 14 Oct 2005 04:42 GMT, saying 'you can get hookers and crack for $2.30, just poor quality'.
[09:26:07] <slava> hi
[09:26:08] * cybereal pokes slava
[09:26:34] <cybereal> slava: hey what's the point of the unit type in ocaml?
[09:27:06] * cybereal went to the bookstore and they have none of the ML books... losers
[09:29:35] *** ohsix has quit IRC
[09:30:54] *** DemisM has quit IRC
[09:32:41] *** mixed has quit IRC
[09:34:49] *** chippy has joined ##java
[09:35:35] *** Lamex has joined ##java
[09:36:35] *** teralaser has joined ##java
[09:37:01] *** deedaw has joined ##java
[09:41:12] <bimbo> rogue-kun{B}, thank you, but my brain is done for today, I'm not delivering this work tomorrow, maybe some other day...
[09:41:17] <bimbo> but thank you, for your time
[09:42:04] *** ohsix has joined ##java
[09:45:19] <elvin|coder> when you write a standalone SWT app, where do you put your dialog composing code? do you extend Shell and put your initContent() in its constructors?
[09:45:34] <roots_> main will do
[09:45:51] <roots_> well they dont realize that there is a memory barrier/multithreading issue
[09:46:08] <roots_> you dont need to extend shell for certain
[09:46:20] *** fuso has quit IRC
[09:48:19] *** doc|work has joined ##java
[09:48:40] *** berzerka has joined ##java
[09:52:50] *** heanol has joined ##java
[09:56:27] *** Java_The_Hutt has joined ##java
[09:56:54] <Java_The_Hutt> Question: Do we need C# delegates in Java? If not what could we use instead ?
[09:58:00] <roots_> a simple list will do for managing listeners
[09:58:29] <roots_> alternatively you can use  EventListenerList from javax.swing.event
[09:58:39] <roots_> and/or PropertyChangeSupport from java.beans
[09:58:46] *** kinabalu has quit IRC
[09:59:06] <roots_> i use those a lot in java, there is no  +=  as you find it in c# for managing listener (or delegates) lists
[09:59:39] <Java_The_Hutt> but how can i store methods in lists ?
[09:59:59] <Java_The_Hutt> also is it reasonable to use Swing event listeners for other stuff ?
[10:01:13] *** HolyGoat has joined ##java
[10:01:38] <roots_> Java_The_Hutt: you can store interfaces in lists
[10:02:00] *** putzel has quit IRC
[10:02:25] <roots_> interface instances
[10:02:33] <roots_> which amounts to storing method pointers in a way
[10:02:43] <roots_> and thats the reasonable approach in java
[10:04:51] <Java_The_Hutt> probably practical, but looked as if it's a trick rather than a solution
[10:07:40] <roots_> its ok
[10:07:43] <roots_> no worries
[10:07:49] * KingNato would like something like C# delegates, but there certainly are workarounds available
[10:07:56] <roots_> delegates in c# are practically the same
[10:08:35] <roots_> only diff in behavior i know of is related to garbage collection
[10:08:53] <roots_> assuming you have static innermethods, otherwise you get a pointer to the enclosing instnace
[10:08:58] <roots_> which can be convenient
[10:09:37] <roots_> from the syntax point of view its more of a difference, but who cares abuot that ? :)
[10:10:52] <rogue-kun{B}> roots_: that depends on how much sysntat differnase, IE does the code come too much bigger to be a hassle? 8)
[10:11:12] <KingNato> I would favour turning Java into Common Lisp or Smalltalk, so my opinion might not matter :)
[10:11:28] *** Cordor has quit IRC
[10:12:03] <roots_> i dont care what i use
[10:13:06] * KingNato hands roots_ an INTERCAL compiler and wishes him luck ;)
[10:13:16] <roots_> hah :)
[10:14:57] <vman_____> whats a monitor in java?
[10:15:27] <ohsix> u
[10:16:53] *** cybereal has quit IRC
[10:17:17] <rogue-kun{B}> vman_____ as monter when somthing changed?
[10:18:02] <rogue-kun{B}> or  moniter as in screen
[10:18:07] <HolyGoat> vman_____: http://www.artima.com/insidejvm/ed2/threadsynch.html
[10:18:07] <rogue-kun{B}> or somthing else
[10:18:22] <HolyGoat> I don't think he means something like Observer pattern with Monitor
[10:18:31] <HolyGoat> (they're typically called "observers" :))
[10:21:17] *** dibblego has quit IRC
[10:22:22] *** lobz has joined ##java
[10:34:45] <KingNato> Monitor: http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?query=monitor&action=Search
[10:37:37] *** Twiun[Zzzzz] is now known as Twiun
[10:54:27] *** berzerka has quit IRC
[10:56:44] *** berzerka has joined ##java
[10:57:19] *** meatmanek has quit IRC
[10:59:19] *** ianp has quit IRC
[11:04:51] *** bauerbob has joined ##java
[11:08:24] *** hatOFF has quit IRC
[11:42:55] *** Job1 has joined ##java
[11:43:01] *** Esaj has joined ##java
[11:46:58] *** jor has joined ##java
[11:47:05] *** linuxfreck has joined ##java
[11:47:32] *** amorph has quit IRC
[11:48:43] *** jor has quit IRC
[11:48:56] *** jor has joined ##java
[11:52:46] *** kanopa has joined ##java
[11:53:40] *** makii has joined ##java
[11:54:48] *** yura has joined ##java
[11:57:37] *** Rene_ has joined ##java
[12:00:37] *** kanopa has quit IRC
[12:04:01] *** yura has quit IRC
[12:08:38] *** vman_____ has quit IRC
[12:13:00] *** roots_ has quit IRC
[12:17:50] <timing> hello i found a way to do antialiasing at last. but then i need to make a class for every JComponent i'm using extending the JComponent and overriding the function paintComponent
[12:18:03] <timing> it's anoying to make all those new classes,
[12:18:18] <timing> does someone know a way to override paintComponent with an extending class?
[12:23:45] <Chmmr> in 1.5 text antialiasing can be turned on globally
[12:31:26] *** EY has joined ##java
[12:32:15] *** enervate has joined ##java
[12:33:04] *** grifis has joined ##java
[12:33:25] <grifis> i have this problem: at sun.nio.cs.StreamDecoder$CharsetSD.readBytes(StreamDecoder.java:408)
[12:33:29] <grifis> is it a java bug ?
[12:34:06] 
[12:34:10] <elvin|coder> oops
[12:34:17] <grifis> (propagated exception) java.net.SocketException: Connection reset (when recv from c server)
[12:34:18] <elvin|coder> grifis, i doubt it
[12:34:52] *** sh4dowcat has joined ##java
[12:35:36] *** TTT has joined ##java
[12:36:31] <TTT> hi, let's say I want to do unit testing of my app, and it uses an SQL database heavily. How do I implement unit testing? create a new database for each test case and restore it before running the test?
[12:37:00] <TTT> (these are all just theoretical questions, i'm just curious if anyone here ran into these problems and what are the possible solutions)
[12:37:19] <grifis> System.out.println("Server: " + in.readLine()); ... throws SocketException...how it is possible ???
[12:37:37] <TTT> grifis: i think so, if your inputstream reads something over network
[12:37:40] <TTT> or from a socket, hmm
[12:38:05] <TTT> grifis: anyway, where did you get that stream from?
[12:38:23] <grifis> from a socket...where the server (written in c) puts response
[12:38:58] <Drone> View grifis's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8331
[12:39:01] <TTT> well, if something is screwed up with the socket, then yes, it is possible to get a socket exception
[12:39:10] <TTT> will do
[12:39:43] <TTT> i think the other end that is writing to the socket terminated prematurely or something
[12:39:48] <chippy> hey, anyone have experience with j2me and touchscreen inputs? in particular editing textboxes, caretPosition etc?
[12:40:11] <grifis> TTT: i'll investigate
[12:40:39] <TTT> so... doesn't anyone here do unit tests with databases?
[12:41:05] <Xgc> timing: Yes.  The normal way you override methods of a superclass in a subclass.
[12:42:46] <chippy> im thinking, maybe some kind of special keyevent to listen for
[12:43:08] <TTT> i only have experience with j2ee, sorry
[12:45:26] <chippy> ok. nevermind :) Theres not much stuff around on j2me .... i shall go a-hunting
[12:48:15] *** svizzero has joined ##java
[12:48:40] <svizzero> anyone knows how to solve this error? ** ERROR **: file
[12:48:41] <svizzero> ../../../src/libjava/jni/gtk-peer/gnu_java_awt_peer_gtk_GtkImage.c:
[12:48:41] <svizzero> line 572 (createRawData): assertion failed: (data_fid != 0)
[12:48:41] <svizzero> aborting...
[12:49:56] <TTT> um, nice, gcj
[12:50:21] <TTT> svizzero: can you find out wtf is data_fid? and why is it ==0 there?
[12:50:45] <TTT> if so, you can solve this problem, I don't have access to gcj environment right now
[12:51:17] <TTT> if i ran into this problem, i'd dig out the source of gnu_java_awt_peer_gtk_GtkImage.c
[12:51:33] <svizzero> let me see
[12:51:52] <svizzero> but if I edit the .c file does I have to recompile some class?
[12:52:06] <TTT> you probably have to redeploy gcj
[12:52:14] <FaeLLe> why does IDEA recommend accessor and mutators methods to be declared final in the 'Code Analysis' thing
[12:52:21] <TTT> or libgcj, or at least some shared libraries, sorry, it's been a while since i used gcj
[12:52:39] *** ninan has joined ##java
[12:53:04] <svizzero> TTT, maybe shall I install another compiler?
[12:53:08] <ninan> hi. i have problem with jboss 4.0.2 and hibernate on har deployer.My App worked fine in 4.0.3rc3 but when i deploy on 4.0.3 i get Caused by: javax.naming.NameNotFoundException: UserTransaction not bound
[12:54:51] <TTT> svizzero: what version of gcj do you have there?
[12:54:52] *** vate has quit IRC
[12:55:04] <TTT> and what are you trying to run with it?
[12:55:12] *** blastnost has quit IRC
[12:55:35] <TTT> personally, i prefer sun's JVM, it usually Just Works (until it crashes with VM errors after 1-4 weeks of heavy usage)
[12:56:59] <svizzero> I have installed sun jvm
[12:57:19] <svizzero> but I don't know how to change the environment to the sun jvm
[12:57:37] <TTT> svizzero: ah
[12:57:52] <TTT> mv /usr/bin/java /usr/bin/java.crap
[12:57:59] <TTT> mv /usr/bin/javac /usr/bin/javac.crap
[12:58:17] <TTT> set JAVA_HOME to your environment, e.g. /usr/local/java-1.5.0
[12:58:37] <TTT> set your path so that you can execute stuff from $JAVA_HOME/bin
[12:58:50] <svizzero> ok thx
[12:58:56] <vLr|zck[rt]> ah everyones up bright and early i see :)
[12:59:00] *** vLr|zck[rt] is now known as zackk
[12:59:04] *** Manny has joined ##java
[12:59:09] <TTT> svizzero: java -version will say that it's SUN's JVM then
[12:59:46] <TTT> zackk: depends on your definition of early, it's 2 PM here
[12:59:56] <zackk> ah-- where do you live?
[13:00:14] *** Tartaros has joined ##java
[13:00:15] <zackk> new york here, have to go though work calls. its 7 :x
[13:01:56] <TTT> zackk: good old europe, a bit on the eastern side
[13:03:52] *** aktinos has joined ##java
[13:07:54] *** headhunter has joined ##java
[13:07:58] <headhunter> hey all
[13:08:38] <headhunter> i got a linker error with java (yesterday the program worked fine): i'm writing a little app using JOGL, and though the jogl jar files are specified as classpath the java linker complains about them missing.
[13:08:56] <headhunter> how do you generally fix those errors? as i said, yesterday it worked fine so i have no clue.
[13:09:19] <TTT> what do you mean by java linker?
[13:09:40] * TTT uses IDE and writes startup shell scripts for his apps that set the correct CLASSPATH
[13:10:24] <headhunter> yeah, the error comes from eclipse. strangely the background syntax checker works still fine (does not complain about missing jogl stuff)
[13:10:30] <headhunter> wait a sec..
[13:11:33] <TTT> headhunter: not all classes and jars get loaded on startup
[13:11:34] <headhunter> [jojo] $  java -cp ".:jogl.jar:jogl-natives-linux.jar" Main  -> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: no jogl in java.library.path        at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadLibrary(ClassLoader.java:1517) [etc..]
[13:11:46] <TTT> they might be loaded only when needed
[13:11:56] <Honk^away> you're missing the native binary in java.library.path
[13:11:57] <headhunter> they are needed in the main class
[13:12:10] <headhunter> what does this tell me Honk^away ;) ?
[13:12:21] <Honk^away> that you didnt read the setup guide for jogl
[13:12:40] <Honk^away> it comes with a .dll/.so, that needs to be in java.library.path :)
[13:12:41] <timing> Chmmr: the global setting for anti alias does not work here, but overriding the paintComponent method does work
[13:13:05] <headhunter> Honk^away: i read the stuff -and as said before- yesterday it worked fine.
[13:13:05] *** SeJo has quit IRC
[13:13:10] <headhunter> but i know what you're talking about ;)
[13:13:57] <TTT> headhunter: then this is not classpath problem, it's missing some shared objects
[13:14:03] *** Mugatu has quit IRC
[13:14:25] <headhunter> ay
[13:14:59] <headhunter> great man, works!
[13:15:03] <headhunter> thank you :)
[13:18:35] *** ractrev has quit IRC
[13:18:41] <TTT> well, that's JNI- Java Native Interface for you
[13:19:06] <TTT> you need .jars, then you need native libraries, and coding with JNI is quite painful
[13:25:19] <headhunter> well, there's no "native" way to use opengl from within java?
[13:26:25] *** ricky_clarkson has joined ##java
[13:26:30] <headhunter> hello ricflazz
[13:26:37] <headhunter> eh.. hi ricky_clarkson
[13:27:19] <ricky_clarkson> Moin.
[13:27:29] <TTT> headhunter: usually you just use some API library and don't worry about how it's implemented
[13:28:04] <headhunter> right, that's what i'm doing with jogl.
[13:28:48] <ricky_clarkson> headhunter: Were you the one moaning about Eclipse compilation time, thinking it was actually jogl's runtime?
[13:28:57] <headhunter> the c++ guy, yeah
[13:29:09] <elvin|coder> Multicast Sockets. When i want to send a message to a group, do i need to do it via MulticastSocket, or is simple Socket sufficient?
[13:29:33] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: you want to use multicast sockets without using multicast sockets?
[13:29:54] <Clackwell> oh, hello everyone :)
[13:30:00] <headhunter> ricky_clarkson:  "Vector3d v = (v1-v2).crossProduct (v1-v3)" -> convert this to something easily readable in java please. any way to do that?
[13:30:48] <headhunter> handling with Vector (3d point) classes without op overloading is pretty odd imo.
[13:31:20] *** ThinkNOLA has joined ##java
[13:31:25] <Clackwell> if you implement operator overloading, you solve the problem programmatically. so do the same with java, within the limits of java.
[13:31:34] <ricky_clarkson> Vector3D difference12=v1.minus(v2);
[13:31:40] <Clackwell> (using methods, typically)
[13:31:45] <ricky_clarkson> Vector3D difference13=v1.minus(v3);
[13:32:03] <Clackwell> ricky_clarkson: <gasp> but that's so ugly and unreadable!
[13:32:04] <ricky_clarkson> Vector3D v=difference12.crossProduct(difference13);
[13:32:14] <Clackwell> </trolling>
[13:32:15] <headhunter> that's what i came up with ricky_clarkson,  but that's so ugly and unreadable!
[13:32:18] *** HelloWorld82 has left ##java
[13:32:21] <ricky_clarkson> headhunter: If your objection is that the code doesn't look like maths, try Matlab.
[13:32:22] <elvin|coder> Clackwell, i don't want anything, i'm trying to understand the way it works
[13:32:41] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: to use multicasting you need to use multicasting sockets, in java, as far as i know.
[13:33:03] <Clackwell> elvin|coder#: might want to read up on multicasting in general though, it might be too limited still to be usefully applied.
[13:33:24] <Clackwell> limited as far as support in the internet infrastructure is concerned (meaning router support).
[13:33:28] <elvin|coder> Clackwell, when i want to receive messages sent to a group then yes, i need to use MulticastSocket. But what about _sending_ to a group?
[13:33:48] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: does anything in Socket hint at being able to send to a multicasting group?
[13:33:55] *** frohike has joined ##java
[13:33:57] <ricky_clarkson> elvin|coder: Any reason not to send to individual IPs?
[13:34:00] *** bauerbob has quit IRC
[13:34:02] <elvin|coder> Clackwell, you're on IRC, and you call multicasting "too limited still to be usefully applied"? :)
[13:34:04] <TTT> elvin|coder: uh, just use jgroups and be done with it already
[13:34:09] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: and why does it matter, why not use multicast socket?
[13:34:14] <ricky_clarkson> IRC doesn't use multicasting, afaik.
[13:34:23] <elvin|coder> ricky_clarkson, afaik it does
[13:34:30] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: no, doesn't
[13:34:31] <Clackwell> read up
[13:34:53] <TTT> ok, ppl, define 'multicasting' before discussing this further
[13:35:05] <ricky_clarkson> Surely RFCs have done that.
[13:35:14] <elvin|coder> oops, i should have read wiki better. sure, it doesn't, my fault
[13:35:16] <TTT> if multicasting = sending same info to multiple clients, then IRC does multicasting
[13:35:24] <TTT> ir multicasting = IP multicasting, it doesn't
[13:35:39] <elvin|coder> TTT, i did already understand that :)
[13:38:06] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: see what i said about the technical limitations. you assume that multicasting is ready to be used all over the internet. as far as i know that is not so. so if you wanted to develop a solution to be used everywhere on the internet today, multicasting can only be a part of the solution, for those targets that have routes that support multicasting. and you would have to detect that support in the routes, i guess. and if these routes brea
[13:39:46] <elvin|coder> Clackwell, 1) "if these routes brea" - your message breaks here; 2) i'm using multicast sockets in intranet.
[13:39:52] <Clackwell> and for something like irc i am not sure it would be useful, since everyone has a different channel selection, so you would end up with one group per channel, for example. maybe that is not a problem, make it is.
[13:40:11] <Clackwell> and if these routes break away, you will have to notice while transmitting and check the new alternative route, etc.
[13:41:17] *** bauerbob has joined ##java
[13:41:18] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: intranet != internet, of course. in intranets you have switches, which may affect the decision pro or contra multicasting, i would think.
[13:42:07] <Clackwell> ("make it is" -> "maybe it is")
[13:42:27] <elvin|coder> ok
[13:42:32] <elvin|coder> thanks :)
[13:42:47] <TTT> elvin|coder: have you checked out jgroups?
[13:42:57] <TTT> www.jgroups.org
[13:43:09] <TTT> too bad I had some reliability problems with that library
[13:43:40] *** Manny has quit IRC
[13:43:45] <timing> are multiple inheritances possible with java 1.5 ??
[13:43:58] <elvin|coder> TTT, i'll check it out, thanks
[13:44:16] <TTT> timing: probably not
[13:44:32] *** ijoyce has quit IRC
[13:45:16] *** roots- has joined ##java
[13:47:56] *** kopke has joined ##java
[13:49:21] <kopke> hello all, I've a little question about domXML and Java, I use org.w3m.dom, and XPath, I make a XPath Query and had an node as result, but I don't suceed to convert node to Element, is someone as any idea?
[13:51:22] <headhunter> is there some way to print out stuff asynchrone for logging?
[13:51:41] *** deedaw has quit IRC
[13:52:37] <HolyGoat> timing: No. Have a look at interfaces.
[13:54:02] <Coffman> (with Struts) i have a string like yyyyMMdd and on the JSP i would like to show user dd/MM/yyyy. where must i do that transform ?? on the Action or on the JSP with <fmt:> for example ??
[13:55:11] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Coffman about javadoc SimpleDateFormat
[13:55:11] <javabot> Coffman, please see java.text.SimpleDateFormat: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/text/SimpleDateFormat.html
[13:56:29] <Coffman> ricky_clarkson, yes, i know the function, but i dont know "where" can i solve the problem , on the Action ? or directly on the JSP ?
[13:56:38] <ricky_clarkson> kopke: Isn't Element a subinterface of Node?
[13:56:54] <kopke> ricky_clarkson: Yes
[13:56:59] <ricky_clarkson> Wherever you want it.
[13:57:03] <ricky_clarkson> ~javadoc Node
[13:57:03] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, please see org.w3c.dom.Node: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/org/w3c/dom/Node.html
[13:57:38] <ricky_clarkson> Use getNodeType(), compare to Node.ELEPHANT_NODE.
[13:57:44] <ricky_clarkson> Damn, that elephant gets everywhere.
[13:58:50] <kopke> I look for it, it is Node.ELEMENT_NODE, but I can't apply getAttribute ( for example! ), cause it is not Element
[13:58:56] <ricky_clarkson> So cast it.
[13:59:00] <kopke> I can't cast it neither
[13:59:03] <ricky_clarkson> Why?
[13:59:22] <kopke> Element e = (Element)n; => it hangs when launching
[13:59:32] <kopke> n.getAttribute( "id" )
[13:59:37] <ricky_clarkson> Not it doesn't.
[13:59:44] <ricky_clarkson> Er, s/Not/No/
[14:00:36] <ricky_clarkson> kopke: System.out.println("I do hang"); Element e=(Element)n; System.out.println("Not!!!");
[14:00:53] <ricky_clarkson> You might get a ClassCastException of course.
[14:01:20] <kopke> Hum I don't understand
[14:01:27] <kopke> I remember have testing that
[14:01:40] <kopke> and it failed, but not!
[14:01:48] <ricky_clarkson> ~confuse kopke
[14:01:48] <javabot> yes, what was your J2EE today, kopke? At least that's what the writer of kaffe said, with extra ham
[14:02:39] <kopke> Node genre; System.out.println( ((Element)genre).getAttribute( "id" ) );
[14:02:48] <kopke> ...
[14:02:58] <ricky_clarkson> That hangs?
[14:03:05] <kopke> I use SDK 1.5, with Eclipse 3.1
[14:03:07] <kopke> non
[14:03:08] <kopke> no
[14:03:14] <ricky_clarkson> Please make sense.
[14:03:19] *** frohike has quit IRC
[14:03:27] <kopke> I'm quite sure that I have test it ...
[14:03:42] <ricky_clarkson> make: *** No rule to make target `sense'.  Stop.
[14:04:19] *** Manny has joined ##java
[14:04:22] <ricky_clarkson> Ok.  What are the current symptoms?
[14:04:39] *** Manny has quit IRC
[14:04:44] <HolyGoat> Coffman: You could do it with JSTL in your jsp, or just do it in your action and spit out a string.
[14:05:19] <kopke> ok, I've understood, I hangs because, when I test this code, I not had only Element but also TEXT_NODE, but now I have only ELEMENT_NODE ...
[14:05:32] <kopke> s/I Hangs/it hangs/
[14:05:37] <ricky_clarkson> Ok.  What are the current symptoms?
[14:05:45] <kopke> no one, it works no
[14:05:53] <kopke> now
[14:06:08] * ricky_clarkson breathes.
[14:06:14] <Coffman> HolyGoat, ok thanks ...  the problem is that i dont know where is the "best" place to do it , on the JSP directly is a little confusing and on the Action i think it could be a source of errors
[14:06:47] <Coffman> i am starrting at strutss, so i am confusing with some questions about the architecture
[14:07:01] <kopke> ricky_clarkson: thank you a lot, I really though I would have to do lot of horrible stuff to get my attribute!
[14:07:31] <HolyGoat> Coffman: IMHO, it would be nicer to do that on the JSP side of things. But I suppose that's a matter of perception. It just feels like it's the most "pure" way of MVC.
[14:07:41] <ricky_clarkson> Not sure I did anything besides tell you you made no sense, but ok.
[14:07:46] *** YD has joined ##java
[14:08:08] <kopke> :)
[14:08:28] <TTT> Coffman: i'd agree with HolyGoat, put it in JSP. Maybe create a SimpleDateFormat object application-scope (or user-scope if you expect users from different countries) and use it to convert date in JSP
[14:08:41] <TTT> user-scope = session-scope
[14:09:22] <TTT> if you have 1 simpledateformat used everywhere in application, it'll be easy to change date format if need rises
[14:09:27] <Coffman> On the other side if at any time i need a GUI interface , i dont want to make the conversion again, if i do it on the Action i have it available for all clients on the correct format
[14:10:03] <TTT> Coffman: i doubt if you'll ever need gui interface, and if you do, there'll probably be GUI elements to show dates (dates not strings)
[14:10:36] <TTT> presentation of data should belong to presentation layer, in this case, JSP
[14:10:37] <HolyGoat> Yeah. Or you make one :)
[14:11:09] <TTT> The Right Way of course would be to make a JSP custom tag to display dates
[14:11:19] <TTT> but it's quite a bit of hassle
[14:11:45] <Coffman> i make the inputs with JSP tags <html:text/> and using JSTL i would break this style .. i must do <input type=texst value=<c:out...>
[14:12:13] <Coffman> TTT, yes its true
[14:12:30] * TTT switched away from Struts/JSP a long time ago
[14:13:13] <Coffman> yes, i will do a custom tags or simple at the JSP
[14:13:50] <HolyGoat> Coffman: This might be of interest to you, straight from the source. http://struts.apache.org/faqs/newbie.html#tags
[14:14:07] <elvin|coder> DatagramSocket.receive() writes received information into DatagramPacket. But if message was longer than DatagramPacket buffer size, message is trunkated. What is the common way of dealing with this probleam?
[14:14:10] <elvin|coder> *problem
[14:14:12] <TTT> as soon as i finish the project i'm working it right now, i'll go study tapestry & hybernate
[14:14:21] <HolyGoat> TTT: What do you use now?
[14:14:28] <TTT> elvin|coder: have you checked out jgroups yet?
[14:14:48] <TTT> HolyGoat: in-house built framework. It uses apache velocity for presentation
[14:14:52] <HolyGoat> ah ok
[14:15:01] <Coffman> did you try appfuse ?
[14:15:05] <TTT> it is better than struts, but now there are more advanced frameworks
[14:15:11] <elvin|coder> TTT, yes, but i'm afraid i need only a small part of their functionality, so it's not the right way to use 'em
[14:15:44] <TTT> elvin|coder: you need small part until the manager comes and tells you he would like you to also imlement x,y,z
[14:15:47] <Coffman> i am working with it on a couple of projects and is very nice , it joins Struts+Spring+Hibernate
[14:16:01] <TTT> and it's easier to use an existing product than to go inventing the wheel
[14:16:16] <Coffman> on the presentation layer you could use Spring,struts or tapestry or whatever you like
[14:16:33] <elvin|coder> TTT, then i'll go and use this library. And third-party solutions have their risks, too
[14:16:38] <TTT> i was sick with JSP syntax and custom tags, so i switched away
[14:17:11] <roots-> joining struts, spring and hibernate ?
[14:17:16] <roots-> wow, thats tripple nightmare :)
[14:17:23] <TTT> elvin|coder: i had problems with nodes getting disconnected and not reconnecting again, but then this was tested in a very much screwed up environment
[14:17:24] <roots-> maybe the bad parts cancel out but i doubt it
[14:17:35] <TTT> elvin|coder: so do a proof of concept before you use it
[14:18:11] <TTT> roots-: what's your recommendation on web-app frameworks?
[14:18:20] <roots->  i dont do much web lately
[14:18:24] <roots-> i run a few drupal driven sites
[14:18:48] <roots-> php based stuff, pretty simple but there is zero problems, very clean code and its plugin based
[14:19:08] <TTT> i code web-apps for living
[14:19:21] <roots-> i did a lot of the stuff on arcor.de
[14:19:28] <roots-> but that was the last time i did anything for the web
[14:19:45] <roots->  arcor.de is huge, i did some stuff, let me rephrase
[14:20:03] <TTT> some stuff has changed over last few years, object-relational mappers became mature, and some frameworks too
[14:20:16] <TTT> i didn't have time to catch up lately
[14:20:22] <HolyGoat> I'm trying to switch away from PHP to Java currently.
[14:20:30] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: possibly related, esp. the last comment: http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=668796&messageID=3914070
[14:20:36] *** blastnost has joined ##java
[14:21:02] <TTT> HolyGoat: my coworked who started working on a new project a month ago is using tapestry+hybernate and he says they rule
[14:21:09] <TTT> i don't have an opinion myself yet
[14:21:20] <TTT> from what I read in docs i think he might be right
[14:21:50] <elvin|coder> Clackwell, thanks again
[14:22:03] <TTT> the thing with Java is that you can do Object Oriented design in java, and this is rarely done in PHP
[14:22:10] <Coffman> i am currently using struts+spring+hibernate , and all is nice , no problems at the moment
[14:22:18] *** blackfalcon has joined ##java
[14:22:18] <HolyGoat> I'm just learning the most popular frameworks/mappers now, so that I have something to put on my resume when applying for Java jobs :)
[14:22:45] *** npmccallum-work has joined ##java
[14:22:55] <Clackwell> TTT: yeah, and look at them developers wanking in all OO-ical directions
[14:23:19] <HolyGoat> TTT: Yes, different culture. I think for me it will be easier to work with Java programmers, as they have an OO foundation. You _can_ create object based architectures with PHP, but most PHP coders simply won't.
[14:23:39] <Clackwell> System.InOut.do(new Output(), "Hello world");
[14:24:00] <Clackwell> Output is an InputOutputMethod, of course. :>
[14:24:45] <ricky_clarkson> Well, what else is there to wank besides objects?
[14:24:56] <TTT> ricky_clarkson: functions and recursions
[14:25:07] * TTT shudders at the thoughts about Caml and Haskel
[14:25:14] <ricky_clarkson> ~haskell
[14:25:15] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, haskell is an interface between academics and programming languages.
[14:25:21] <HolyGoat> heh
[14:25:41] <roots-> its a one way interface
[14:26:04] *** wms has joined ##java
[14:26:20] <ricky_clarkson> Damn printer jams paper and I'm not on the Windows network properly so I can't use network printers.
[14:26:39] *** Kallistor has joined ##java
[14:26:48] * ricky_clarkson emails himself the file and wanders elsewhere.
[14:26:48] <roots-> dead tree documentation--
[14:27:10] <ricky_clarkson> Well, it's difficult to give out fliers without killing some trees.
[14:27:12] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: did you read the thread on bbc about alex higgins ?
[14:27:17] <ricky_clarkson> Nope.
[14:27:18] <roots-> people want him back on the main tour
[14:27:29] <roots-> alex "1 pint per frame" higgins
[14:27:35] <ricky_clarkson> Don't they have a seniors bit?
[14:27:39] <roots-> dunno
[14:27:57] <roots-> him vs.  jimmy "i snort powder that's " white
[14:28:08] <ricky_clarkson> I'm abusing work resources for my sideline.
[14:28:23] <roots-> talking about idols
[14:28:24] <roots->         //
[14:28:24] <roots->         // [prakash: 06/24/05] For subgraphs with child nodes in them, the vedge points to the inner node (instead
[14:28:27] <roots->         // of start/end node of the subgraph node. Not sure if this was always so - or if this is
[14:28:30] <roots-> a recent
[14:28:33] <roots->         // regression - below code is a hack to force visualEdge to point to correct port (if src/dest is
[14:28:36] <roots->         // a subgraph)
[14:28:38] <Clackwell> <duck>
[14:28:38] <roots->
[14:28:41] <roots->         if (src instanceof VisualSubgraph) {
[14:28:42] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ricky_clarkson
[14:28:43] <roots->         	fixEdgeToSubgraphOutputPort(vedge, src);
[14:28:44] *** ricky_clarkson sets mode: +b %roots-!*@*
[14:28:45] <jwormy> somebodies gonna die
[14:28:50] <Clackwell> burn, burn!
[14:28:52] <ricky_clarkson> +q only
[14:29:01] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: /msg me when you've finished.
[14:29:57] *** ricky_clarkson sets mode: -b %roots-!*@*
[14:30:19] <ricky_clarkson> We didn't see that copyright violation, right?
[14:30:24] *** ricky_clarkson sets mode: -o ricky_clarkson
[14:30:55] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: irssi warns you when you do that.
[14:30:58] <ricky_clarkson> ash: 06/24/05] For subgraphs with child nodes in them, the vedge points to the inner node (instead
[14:31:01] <ricky_clarkson> = 13:30:17 < roots->         // of start/end node of the subgraph node. Not sure if this was always so - or if this is
[14:31:04] <ricky_clarkson> = 13:30:20 < roots-> a recent
[14:31:06] <ricky_clarkson> = 13:30:22 < roots->         // regression - below code is a hack to force visualEdge to point to correct port (if src/dest is
[14:31:09] <ricky_clarkson> = 13:30:25 < roots->         // a subgraph)
[14:31:12] <ricky_clarkson> = 13:30:27 < Clackwell> <duck>
[14:31:13] <Clackwell> <cough>
[14:31:15] <ricky_clarkson> = 13:30:28 < roots->
[14:31:17] <ricky_clarkson> = 13:30:30 < roots->         if (src instanceof VisualSubgraph) {
[14:31:20] <ricky_clarkson> = 13:30:33 -!- mode/##java [+o ricky_clarkson] by ChanServ
[14:31:22] <ricky_clarkson> = 13:30:33 < roots->         IfixEdgeToSubgraphOutputPort(vedge, src);
[14:31:22] <Clackwell> someone kick ricky!
[14:31:25] <ricky_clarkson> = 13:30:33 -!- mode/##java [+b %roots-!*@*] by ricky_clarkson
[14:31:27] <ricky_clarkson> = 13:30:34 < jwormy> somebodies gonna die
[14:31:30] <ricky_clarkson> = 13:30:39 < Clackwell> burn, burn!
[14:31:32] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ricky_clarkson
[14:31:33] <jwormy> what the fuck
[14:31:34] <ricky_clarkson> = 13:30:41 <@ricky_clarkson> +q only
[14:31:37] <ricky_clarkson> Shit.
[14:31:39] <ricky_clarkson> irssi USUALLY warns you..
[14:31:41] <roots-> it wasnt my intention
[14:31:42] <TTT> bwahahahaha
[14:31:42] <jwormy> HAHA
[14:31:44] <Clackwell> hehe :)
[14:31:47] *** ricky_clarkson was kicked by ricky_clarkson (lurn too youse ur klient)
[14:31:49] <roots-> i am using irssi too
[14:31:53] <roots-> as a side note
[14:31:53] *** ricky_clarkson has joined ##java
[14:31:55] <ricky_clarkson> bah
[14:32:03] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: i am using irssi too
[14:32:35] <ricky_clarkson> I expected it to say "Pasting XX lines to ##java.  ctrl-k to continue, ctrl-c to abort"
[14:33:16] <TTT> there could be "Pasting XX lines to ##java.  ctrl-k to continue, ctrl-c to abort, ctrl+p to use pastebin"
[14:33:56] <roots-> maybe it works now while using putty
[14:34:00] <roots-> want me to test ? :)
[14:34:21] <ricky_clarkson> I'm using putty.
[14:34:51] <ricky_clarkson> Maybe the ssh made it too slow for irssi to believe it was a paste.
[14:35:03] * TTT is using xchat over X tunneled over ssh running on port 443 since the firewall allows only ports 443 and 80 outbound
[14:35:15] <TTT> stupid banks
[14:35:28] <TTT> and their stupid firewalls
[14:35:29] * ricky_clarkson is using irssi in a screen in ssh running on a different continent.
[14:35:42] *** elvin|coder has quit IRC
[14:36:02] <TTT> heh, 100 km away here, my home PC, you win this dicksize war :)
[14:36:04] <ricky_clarkson> I tried irssi-proxy but it was confusing - didn't give me any context.
[14:36:37] <roots-> you could lose against me
[14:36:48] <roots-> i am logged into a VPN in california from cologne
[14:36:53] <roots-> from there ssh'ing to a box in germany
[14:36:57] <roots-> irc'ing from there
[14:37:03] <ricky_clarkson> Someone won a dicksize competition because they measured from tip to testicles.
[14:37:11] <roots-> i roundtrip all of this around the earth
[14:37:24] <ricky_clarkson> His testicles were somewhere in Somerset.  He wasn't.
[14:38:05] <ricky_clarkson> I think that's a joke but the person who told me was so dull that I couldn't tell.
[14:39:30] <ricky_clarkson> I used to dialup to a machine in Belfast then telnet to California.  Actually telnet, yes.
[14:39:53] <roots-> the VPN server is in amsterdam
[14:40:05] <TTT> didnt' the evil (ex-)soviet hackers sniff all your passwords?
[14:40:19] <roots-> his password is "secret"
[14:40:27] <ricky_clarkson> No, the Lithuanians did.
[14:40:58] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: Do you use screen too?
[14:40:59] <TTT> heh, here in dorms of university I used to study, it would take 1-2 logins anywhere with plaintext password, and you're Pwn3d
[14:41:28] <ricky_clarkson> Sometimes I use the VPN just because I don't trust the wireless.
[14:42:16] <ricky_clarkson> VPN would be nicer if it was possible to choose which applications used it, imo.
[14:42:53] <TTT> hmm, i wonder how much creative routing it would take
[14:42:53] *** andolusia has quit IRC
[14:43:06] <roots-> ricky_clarkson: yes
[14:43:15] <TTT> no, probably not possible to implement, unless apps use different protocols
[14:43:22] <roots-> 3 screens in one screen instance
[14:43:25] <roots-> dunno how its called
[14:43:33] <roots-> +when you make a new one with ctrl a c
[14:43:38] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: 3 windows in one screen, I think.
[14:43:59] <roots-> ircnet, efnet and this one
[14:44:04] <ricky_clarkson> roots-: Do you get responsiveness issues when a connection dies and comes alive again?
[14:44:10] <roots-> nope
[14:44:15] <roots-> customer has good bandwidth
[14:44:20] <ricky_clarkson> I get cases where I can do screen -x and irssi appears but nothing works.
[14:44:35] <roots-> i dont do -x
[14:44:48] <ricky_clarkson> Even if I kill irssi irssi appears, screen must be keeping the last display.
[14:44:51] <roots-> i use -r thats all
[14:44:58] <roots-> you could use -d
[14:45:02] <roots-> to detach an old sessions
[14:45:24] * ricky_clarkson tries it now, might have to restart irssi..
[14:46:20] *** goki has joined ##java
[14:46:23] <ricky_clarkson> Yeah, works.
[14:46:41] * ricky_clarkson thoght he'd tried that.
[14:50:21] *** Java_The_Hutt has quit IRC
[14:53:11] *** lms has joined ##java
[14:54:24] *** davidw has joined ##java
[14:59:03] *** AlphaOmega_wrk has quit IRC
[15:00:31] *** JViz has quit IRC
[15:00:39] *** EY has quit IRC
[15:03:29] *** Ulgar has joined ##java
[15:06:30] *** Mugatu has joined ##java
[15:15:07] *** YD has quit IRC
[15:17:31] *** doc|work has quit IRC
[15:18:08] *** doc|work has joined ##java
[15:19:08] *** joev has joined ##java
[15:20:33] *** TTT has quit IRC
[15:23:17] *** Chmmr has quit IRC
[15:28:53] <goki> quiet
[15:29:24] <ricky_clarkson> We were having a sponsored silence.
[15:29:35] <ricky_clarkson> Now 34 orphanages will go unbuilt.
[15:29:49] <lunk> *ding* 35
[15:30:20] * goki sobs
[15:30:31] * davidw ponders how to build a j2me version of hecl sans floating point, and a regular version with it
[15:30:35] <goki> Three walls is not enough!
[15:30:44] <ricky_clarkson> Charity begins at home, so gimme a fiver.
[15:30:56] <goki> I'm at work ;P
[15:31:52] <ricky_clarkson> Me too.
[15:35:01] * cheeser bows.
[15:35:22] * ricky_clarkson arrows.
[15:35:38] <lunk> working from home this morning \o/
[15:35:57] <ricky_clarkson> I would be if I hadn't taught from 10-12.
[15:38:40] <lunk> co worker has class MWF mornings
[15:39:08] <lunk> some language translation in haskell, looks pretty cool
[15:39:13] <ricky_clarkson> I don't really know when mine's around, she seems to suit herself.
[15:39:41] <ricky_clarkson> Well, more like an office-mate than a co-worker really.
[15:39:47] <cheeser> lunk: i work from home every morning.  8^)=
[15:39:48] <lunk> gotcha
[15:40:06] <lunk> i was on a role last week, only went into the office 1 time, for a meeting
[15:40:24] <ricky_clarkson> All I know is that she has a Learning Perl book on her desk.
[15:40:34] <lunk> lol
[15:40:47] <lunk> replace it with a single sheet of paper with .* written on it
[15:41:02] <ricky_clarkson> No, $_.
[15:42:04] <lunk> oh well, perl is like ducttape, great for holding small things together
[15:42:21] *** Sancezz has joined ##java
[15:44:47] *** sapere has joined ##java
[15:49:36] <roots-> perl is cool
[15:52:46] *** svizzero has quit IRC
[15:54:47] <lunk> yeah, it is
[15:56:17] *** Mazon is now known as mazon
[15:57:29] *** NichtMued has joined ##java
[15:57:52] <roots-> i am such a fan
[15:59:12] *** NichtMued has quit IRC
[15:59:19] *** hagios_ has joined ##java
[15:59:46] <hagios_> anyone know of an eclipse plugin that will detect duplicate code that can be refactored?
[16:00:08] <ricky_clarkson> hagios_: No, but pmd can detect copy-and-paste code.
[16:00:10] <hagios_> i know its no simple thing to do but it would be cool
[16:00:14] <ricky_clarkson> ~pmd
[16:00:14] <hagios_> hmm
[16:00:14] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, I have no idea what pmd is.
[16:00:40] <ricky_clarkson> http://pmd.sf.net
[16:02:36] *** Manny has joined ##java
[16:05:41] *** timofeyc has joined ##java
[16:06:08] <grifis> why java server waiting forever in BufferedReader.in.read() also if C Client send and int ?
[16:06:55] <ricky_clarkson> grifis: 'Because it's filling its buffer?
[16:08:49] *** heanol has quit IRC
[16:08:51] <grifis> so have i to use only InputStreamReader ?
[16:09:24] <ricky_clarkson> Try it.
[16:09:35] <davidw> this microemulator j2me emulator thing is cool
[16:10:43] <davidw> later
[16:10:45] *** davidw has quit IRC
[16:11:00] *** joaopaulo has joined ##java
[16:11:03] *** kadams has quit IRC
[16:12:27] *** conan has quit IRC
[16:13:12] <pr3d4t0r> Good morning, Everyone.
[16:13:46] 
[16:14:10] <joaopaulo> i have installed postgresql driver for java, define the jar file in classpath, stopped tomcat and getting "Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: tentativaDb/java" , anybody have some ideia ?
[16:14:40] <cheeser> joaopaulo: you don't put .java on the end of class names you're trying to execute.
[16:14:47] <cheeser> is tentativeDb a servlet?
[16:15:02] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: Do you have a file called tentativeDb.java ?
[16:15:02] *** kiorky has joined ##java
[16:15:04] <kiorky> heelo
[16:15:08] <cheeser> hey kiorky
[16:15:20] <kiorky> does someone know some bindings for ooo in java?
[16:15:34] <joaopaulo> cheeser, isnt a servlet, ricky_clarkson, i have this file
[16:15:35] <ricky_clarkson> kiorky: #openoffice.org
[16:15:40] <kiorky> ricky_clarkson: okay
[16:15:40] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: Have you compiled it?
[16:15:47] <joaopaulo> ricky_clarkson, yes
[16:15:53] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: Then what?
[16:16:20] <joaopaulo> i got that exception
[16:16:29] <ricky_clarkson> That's not a compiltaion exception.
[16:16:57] *** gelignite has joined ##java
[16:17:03] *** littlezoper has joined ##java
[16:17:04] *** hagios_ has left ##java
[16:17:15] <joaopaulo> the code is this http://pastebin.com/393448 , i got that exception on execution, that compile
[16:17:19] *** adante has quit IRC
[16:17:27] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: How do you execute it?
[16:17:44] <joaopaulo> java tentativaDb
[16:17:47] <roots->  ooo ?
[16:17:51] <roots-> out of office ?
[16:18:03] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: I think you did it as java tentativaDb.java
[16:18:14] *** kiorky has left ##java
[16:18:35] <joaopaulo> yes, my mistake, i had java tentativaDb really
[16:18:55] <ricky_clarkson> grifis: per favore no usa uno messagio privato.
[16:19:26] <joaopaulo> ricky_clarkson, postunhol e mais facil para mim
[16:19:32] <joaopaulo> *portunhol
[16:19:43] *** cored has joined ##java
[16:20:00] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: las textes de arriba son italiano, no espanol.
[16:20:29] *** ninan has quit IRC
[16:20:46] <joaopaulo> ok, tutti bona gente
[16:20:47] *** AlphaOmega_wrk has joined ##java
[16:21:13] <joaopaulo> ricky_clarkson, some ideia about my problem ?
[16:21:43] <ricky_clarkson> joaopaulo: I think you did it as java tentativaDb.java
[16:21:55] <ricky_clarkson> If you didn't then you would get different output.
[16:22:25] <joaopaulo> yes, i did. already fix it, and got the same message withou /java in the end
[16:22:49] <ricky_clarkson> Include the current directory (a single . ) in the classpath.
[16:23:05] <roots-> ./././. would work too
[16:23:11] <roots-> or ./////.//./////.
[16:28:18] <joaopaulo> ricky_clarkson, i do somethings, can u take a look ? http://pastebin.com/393460
[16:28:44] <ricky_clarkson> I said include it. I didn't say make that the only thing.
[16:29:23] *** FaeLLe has quit IRC
[16:31:15] *** geli has quit IRC
[16:33:28] *** mazon is now known as Mazon
[16:33:36] <joaopaulo> ricky_clarkson, works
[16:35:29] <ricky_clarkson> MS Works?
[16:36:06] * ricky_clarkson cycles home.
[16:45:17] *** adante has joined ##java
[16:50:42] *** vate has joined ##java
[16:51:52] *** Mell has joined ##java
[16:52:46] *** HelloWorld82 has joined ##java
[16:53:02] <HelloWorld82> ola :)
[16:59:03] *** Frederick has joined ##java
[17:00:30] *** Markov has joined ##java
[17:00:33] <Frederick> Guys I got a doubt in suns tutorial in this section -> http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/java/data/characters.html why do I create a with = new Character('a') why O cant initialize it as Ive done with the numbers before without this sort of a cast?
[17:00:40] *** HelloWorld82 has left ##java
[17:01:24] <cheeser> a Character isn't a number
[17:01:27] <roots-> Frederick: i dont understand a single word :)
[17:01:44] <Frederick> roots-, oki I will reformulate it
[17:02:00] <Frederick> the doc says Character(char)   The Character class's only constructor, which creates a Character object containing the value provided by the argument. Once a Character object has been created, the value it contains cannot be changed.
[17:03:02] <roots-> yes
[17:03:07] <Frederick> now I got 2 questions, 1 why cant I create the char as char a = 'a';
[17:03:21] <cheeser> Character != char
[17:03:26] *** lobz has quit IRC
[17:03:39] <Frederick> hm
[17:04:16] <Frederick> and why cant I change it?
[17:04:24] <roots-> well its odd indeed
[17:04:29] <roots-> char ch = 20; will work
[17:04:34] <roots-> same like byte b = 20; will work
[17:04:43] <roots-> the constant is inrange and thus assignable
[17:04:53] *** Danielle has quit IRC
[17:07:14] <Frederick> I ask cause Im used to c where I dont have this kind of checking
[17:07:20] <cheeser> C doesn't have objects.
[17:07:28] <cheeser> Character is an object.  char is not.
[17:07:45] *** ll_ has joined ##java
[17:08:38] <Frederick> cheeser, I know c doesnt have objects :p
[17:09:04] *** sapere has quit IRC
[17:09:34] *** enervate has quit IRC
[17:09:58] <Frederick> cheeser, I meant that c has no limit checking, as example I can have char foo[10]; assing foo[12]='a' pray that enough memory was automagically allocated and acess char[12] with sucess
[17:10:27] <cheeser> that's why C sucks and has buffer overruns.
[17:10:28] <ll_> there's no praying about it man, it isn't there
[17:11:08] <Frederick> ll_, OS allocates more than a single char space by many reasons so it may work even it isnt assured
[17:11:58] <ll_> hrm, that seems rather inefficient to me
[17:12:38] <ll_> since you're being explicit about the size of your array, char foo[10] isn't a suggestion
[17:13:06] <Frederick> ll_, OS might and usually does allocate more than the exact space
[17:14:01] <ll_> if you can explain why that makes sense, I'll believe you
[17:14:30] <cheeser> it doesn't matter.
[17:14:34] <cheeser> java doesn't do that.
[17:15:02] <Frederick> ll_,  I will pvt you
[17:15:16] <ll_> ok
[17:20:56] <pchapman> It appears that godaddy's root ca key is in java 1.5's cacerts.  Have anyone had trouble with java and SSL using godaddy SSL?
[17:21:22] <cheeser> you have a server hosted on their systems?
[17:21:53] <pchapman> cheeser, No.  I was thinking of buying a cert from them for my server so that I could use SSL.
[17:21:55] *** Dekkard has joined ##java
[17:22:30] <pchapman> I'll be ecrypting my app's communication with the server using SSL
[17:22:47] *** teralaser has quit IRC
[17:23:09] <Dekkard> ello?
[17:24:29] <puff> Morning.
[17:24:48] <cheeser> pchapman: ah.
[17:24:54] <cheeser> i need to look into that actually.
[17:25:17] <Dekkard> can anyone tell me about fastjar?
[17:26:13] *** mohadib has joined ##java
[17:27:27] <Dekkard> or is this more of a java dev  place?
[17:27:47] <cheeser> it's more for java dev though product discussions do come up.
[17:27:52] <cyc|w> We just like to drink lots of java ;)
[17:27:59] <cyc|w> nothing technilcal at all
[17:28:09] <Dekkard> mmmm
[17:28:14] <Dekkard> gimmee a double shot
[17:28:25] <Dekkard> this is my deal..
[17:28:33] <cyc|w> hehe ;)
[17:28:35] <Dekkard> i installed blackdown on new ubuntu..
[17:28:45] <Dekkard> the plugin works in firefox
[17:29:13] <Dekkard> but when i try to open a java app with the old :java -jar foo.jar.. i get nuffin but like a list of 20 exceptions
[17:29:20] <Dekkard> now..
[17:29:32] <cilquirm> in the jstl , it's le and ge not lte/gte right?
[17:29:37] <Dekkard> if i open with the absolute path to java.. the app works
[17:29:55] <Dekkard> uh...
[17:29:59] <Dekkard> what?
[17:30:00] <cyc|w> Dekkard: Do you have blackdown and Sun's JRE installed?
[17:30:09] <Dekkard> no..
[17:30:13] <Dekkard>  just blackdown
[17:30:27] *** mod_cure has joined ##java
[17:30:31] <Dekkard> i had the jre 1.5.. but removed it
[17:30:32] <cheeser> type:  which java
[17:30:33] <mod_cure> can I ask a JSF question here ?
[17:30:44] <cheeser> sure
[17:30:46] <Dekkard> blackdown j2sdk 1.4.2
[17:30:52] <mod_cure> cheeser :)
[17:31:07] <mod_cure> cheeser, searching the net for the answer, can't find it
[17:31:39] <mod_cure>  <h:inputText value="#{personBean.personName}"> <-- Is there a way I acheive the same effect but not showing the value ?
[17:32:13] <Dekkard> when i lookde for jar.. i found a symlink..that pointed to fastjar
[17:32:32] <ricky_clarkson> Dekkard: Use Sun's JDK only.
[17:32:44] <Dekkard> hmm
[17:32:47] <Dekkard> wierd..
[17:32:48] <ricky_clarkson> Dekkard: Unless you have a reason not to.
[17:32:56] <Dekkard>  i got the same errors with suns jre..
[17:33:08] <Dekkard>  as i get with blackdown jdk
[17:33:44] <ricky_clarkson> Do you have both installed?
[17:33:51] <Dekkard> no..
[17:34:01] <Dekkard>  i removed the original sun jre 1.5
[17:34:11] <ricky_clarkson> Uninstall Blackdown, install Sun's.
[17:34:16] <Dekkard> ack
[17:34:19] <Dekkard> :(
[17:34:19] <ricky_clarkson> Check that which java is the right filename.
[17:34:29] <Dekkard> ?
[17:34:37] <ricky_clarkson> Type: which java
[17:34:44] <Dekkard> /usr/bin/java
[17:34:58] <ricky_clarkson> Type: ls -l /usr/bin/java
[17:35:30] <Dekkard> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 22 2005-10-13 10:23 /usr/bin/java -> /etc/alternatives/java
[17:35:39] <ricky_clarkson> ls -l /etc/alternatives/java
[17:35:40] *** censored has joined ##java
[17:36:07] <Dekkard> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 30 2005-10-13 10:23 /etc/alternatives/java -> /usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj/bin/java
[17:36:15] <ricky_clarkson> Remove gcj.
[17:36:16] <cheeser> there you go
[17:36:25] <ricky_clarkson> Remove gij too if it's a separate package.
[17:36:30] <Dekkard> just remove that directory?
[17:36:36] <cheeser> uninstall that package
[17:36:40] <jor> no, do a update-alternatives --config java
[17:36:41] <jor> :)
[17:36:42] *** synic has joined ##java
[17:37:01] *** mgrimes has joined ##java
[17:37:02] <cheeser> distros shouldn't ship any VM if their only option is a broken half-implementation.
[17:37:03] <Dekkard> ok guys
[17:37:04] <ricky_clarkson> jor: Only if you trust Debian not to favour the 'free' stuff anyway.
[17:37:07] <Dekkard> yer killin me
[17:37:29] <Dekkard> see..
[17:37:29] <pr3d4t0r> cheeser: It boggles the mind why people don't just get it from Sun.
[17:37:34] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: Debian should not install gcj as if it were Java.
[17:37:38] <Dekkard>  i thought it was something in ubuntu..not the java
[17:37:50] <jor> ricky_clarkson: nope, most non-free hava jvm have a higher priority, so should be the default for the alternatives configuration
[17:37:52] <pr3d4t0r> Dekkard: It is something in Ubuntu, not the java.
[17:37:58] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: In Debian, if you just type apt-get install eclipse it will install gcj for you if you don't already have it.
[17:38:00] <cheeser> Dekkard: it is.  ubuntu installed a broken implmentation and told you you had java.
[17:38:16] <Dekkard> bastards!!!!
[17:38:17] <ricky_clarkson> jor: It still shouldn't be possible to install gcj 'by accident'.
[17:38:18] <cheeser> jor: bah!  the higher priority should be the one that works.
[17:38:30] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: That's what he said.
[17:38:34] <cheeser> people who really know what they want can pick one of the "free" ones.
[17:38:35] <Dekkard> so i need to try a removal of gcj and gic
[17:38:40] <cyc|w> It has always worked fine for ME in Ubuntu
[17:38:42] <ricky_clarkson> gij, not gic.
[17:38:49] <cyc|w> It is the person behind the wheel ;P
[17:38:49] <jor> ricky_clarkson: but it should still be able to be installed next to another JVM
[17:38:55] *** davidw has joined ##java
[17:39:00] <Dekkard> gij
[17:39:02] <davidw> ok.... tricky one...maybe
[17:39:05] <davidw> gij ++
[17:39:13] <Dekkard> gij and gcj
[17:39:26] <davidw> I've got a long series of operations that will either operate on Integers or Doubles
[17:39:31] <davidw> but I don't know ahead of time which ones
[17:39:32] <ricky_clarkson> jor: Yes, but not without some user agreement (at normal dpkg level).
[17:39:43] <Dekkard> why couldnt they just leave it alone...
[17:40:03] <ricky_clarkson> davidw: What kind of operations?
[17:40:08] <davidw> what I'd like to do, conceptually is something like this:
[17:40:15] <Dekkard> cyc|w,  i never had this issue with hoary...
[17:40:48] <jor> ricky_clarkson: huh? you want an extra question at install time, like "Are you sure you want to install this crappy gcj package?"
[17:40:52] <davidw> Type = Int ; Type foo = Type.get();
[17:40:57] <ricky_clarkson> jor: Yes.
[17:41:03] <davidw> sort of... it's not actually Ints and Doubles, but close enough
[17:41:20] <ricky_clarkson> davidw: Make sense.
[17:41:25] <ricky_clarkson> ~make sense
[17:41:25] <javabot> make: *** No rule to make target `sense'.  Stop.
[17:41:29] <davidw> Dekkard, if you have gcj problems, #classpath is another place to ask
[17:41:35] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Yeah, and in OS X I have JVMs that are tightly integrated with the OS and Just Work(tm) without me having to screw with them :)
[17:41:49] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: My time is more valuable than dicking with Debian's idiotic install policies.
[17:41:54] <mohadib> heh
[17:42:10] <mohadib> at keast debian is not a toy
[17:42:18] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: If you make sure you instlal java-package then things Just Work(tm) afterwards.
[17:42:21] <davidw> debian's installers have more valuable things to do than dicking with Sun's idiotic licensing.
[17:42:21] <Dekkard> osx aint no toy..
[17:42:30] <mohadib> ok
[17:42:31] <ricky_clarkson> davidw: Bullshit.
[17:42:34] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: I don't have to make sure of anything under OS X.
[17:42:41] <ricky_clarkson> davidw: Consider that realplayer doesn't have the same issue.
[17:42:54] <davidw> realplayer is not part of Debian
[17:42:57] <ricky_clarkson> davidw: mplayer can play realplayer files, but mplayer doesn't Provide: realplayer.
[17:42:59] <mohadib> consider most things work on debian without effort
[17:43:14] <pr3d4t0r> davidw: Sun's licensing is fine.  If you don't like it, don't use Java -- and don't bitch about b0rk'd implementations that you insist on using just because the "licensing" fits your desires.
[17:43:17] <ricky_clarkson> Ah, well, mplayer is not part of Debian either, but, e.g., xmms is.
[17:43:31] <ll_> there's debs for mplayer floating around
[17:43:39] <roots-> there is alien too
[17:43:41] <mohadib> lots of them
[17:43:41] <ricky_clarkson> ll_: Not official Debian ones.
[17:43:44] <roots-> for installing rpms
[17:43:49] <mohadib> roots-: maybe in unfree
[17:43:50] <pr3d4t0r> Cheers.
[17:43:52] <mohadib> non-free
[17:43:57] <davidw> anyway, WRT the type problem...
[17:43:58] <Dekkard> they tied open office to gij and gcj...
[17:44:00] <mohadib> er ricky_clarkson ^^
[17:44:03] <ll_> sure, but if you want a media machine you might as well use ubuntu
[17:44:07] <Dekkard> what a freekin numbskull thing to do
[17:44:12] <davidw> Dekkard, not really
[17:44:14] <roots-> Dekkard: indeed
[17:44:22] <davidw> openoffice wants java
[17:44:29] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: The issue with Debian is not that it doesn't allow you to install Java from Sun; it does, it provides a wrapper package for it.  The issue is that it lets things that aren't Java(tm) be installed as if they were Java(tm).
[17:44:32] <davidw> gcj provides free java
[17:44:32] <mohadib> ll_: ubunto is not any better than sarge imho
[17:44:36] <davidw> so openoffice gets gcj
[17:44:43] <ricky_clarkson> davidw: gcj is not Java.
[17:45:12] <ricky_clarkson> If openoffice can work with gcj, it should specify depends: java | gcj
[17:45:44] <davidw> yeah, that would be better than depends: gcj
[17:45:45] <Dekkard> davidw,  i understand that oo.org wants java..
[17:45:51] <davidw> but I don't know the specifics of it
[17:45:58] <Dekkard> gcj is the reicken prollem
[17:46:04] <Dekkard> or fricken
[17:46:09] <mohadib> gosh
[17:46:17] <ricky_clarkson> davidw: The specifics are that Java is a trademark, and a standard.  gcj doesn't implement that standard anywhere near completely.
[17:46:48] * Twiun gets his piece of string, Java... Standard... hmmm
[17:46:48] <davidw> it continues to improve, and you can always pitch in and help yourself.
[17:47:05] <mohadib> why , we have sun java?
[17:47:13] <ricky_clarkson> I actually agree, and have helped (in ridiculously small ways) the gcj goal and the Apache Harmony goal, but I don't want users getting the idea that gcj is Java before it is capable of running Java programs.
[17:47:19] <jor> it could become quite a depends list, need to list all those alternative jvms :)
[17:47:26] <ricky_clarkson> mohadib: Licencing, mainly.
[17:47:39] <cheeser> jor: gentoo uses a virtual dep that you can set to whatever VM you want.
[17:47:41] <Twiun> jor: nah, most are converging to use the same core classes
[17:47:44] <goki> gcj is good because it is compiling to native
[17:47:48] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: why , do people want to modifiy the jvm code?
[17:47:48] <davidw> mohadib, practical example - say I have some funky architecture for an embedded system that Sun doesn't want to support
[17:47:50] <goki> none of this buggering about with a VM
[17:47:52] <cheeser> then the ebuild just deps on that one dep
[17:47:55] <davidw> for example NetBSD on PowerPC
[17:47:56] <mohadib> davidw: ay
[17:48:08] <jor> cheeser: yes, so does debian with its alternatives method
[17:48:19] <ricky_clarkson> jor: It's better that it lists all the jvms it's compatible with, than listing that it's compatible with free-java and every man and his dog providing: free-java.
[17:48:35] *** fuso has joined ##java
[17:49:00] <davidw> anyway, WRT both Debian and GCJ, they are both open source projects that you can actually get fixed if there is something technically wrong that is fixable, so consider at least filing bug reports if there is something you don't like or see wrong.
[17:49:22] *** ke|z has quit IRC
[17:49:25] <goki> GCJ could be good for stuff that doesn't use Swing as well
[17:49:34] *** Frederick has quit IRC
[17:49:38] <davidw> I wrote the initial version of Hecl with gcj and it worked just fine
[17:49:52] <davidw> it's not as if it isn't usable for some things.
[17:49:54] <goki> davidw, does it support jogl?
[17:49:57] <davidw> *anyway*
[17:50:00] <mohadib> no
[17:50:23] <davidw> you can find a lot of free java people on #classpath that are more clued in to the latest state of affairs than I am
[17:50:41] <goki> It looks like it is starting to work
[17:50:42] <ricky_clarkson> davidw: Yeah, but it's not certified yet.
[17:50:59] <davidw> it's never going to be 'certified' because you have to accept Sun's terms for that, IIRC
[17:51:10] <Twiun> goki: http://www.spindazzle.org/green/index.php?p=38
[17:51:20] <Twiun> goki: jogl on gcj
[17:51:56] *** franl has joined ##java
[17:52:14] <davidw> *anyway* ^2 - I want to figure out if I can do something akin to dynamic types with a bit of reflection powder
[17:52:46] <davidw> basically.... I have a series of numbers that might be Ints - or they might be Doubles... if one of them is a double, they all get promoted
[17:53:08] <davidw> at that point, I'd like to do calculations with them, either as ints or as doubles
[17:53:38] *** amphiboid has joined ##java
[17:53:55] <davidw> I can do a bunch of if's, of course, but that strikes me as being less than elegant
[17:54:16] <Mazon> why not just always assume double ?
[17:54:37] <davidw> I guess I could do that and then go back to int if none of them was a double....
[17:54:45] <goki> ah thanks that's good Twiun
[17:54:46] <ricky_clarkson> Or BigDecimal.
[17:54:46] <Mazon> why go back ?
[17:55:08] <goki> use int if you want to use exact comparisons, etc.
[17:55:16] <goki> otherwise you might as well use double
[17:55:26] <davidw> Mazon, generally, scripting languages seem to do 10 / 3 == 3
[17:55:38] <ricky_clarkson> davidw: I don't think so.
[17:55:39] <davidw> and 10.0 / 3 == 3.33333333333
[17:56:04] <davidw> ricky_clarkson, which ones don't?
[17:56:07] <ricky_clarkson> JavaScript does 10/3=3.33333...
[17:56:13] <ricky_clarkson> I just tried it.
[17:56:13] <goki> there should be a separate operator for integer division
[17:56:28] <davidw> scheme does the promotion....
[17:56:29] <ricky_clarkson> davidw: You could generate code using Velocity, a la C++ templates.
[17:56:30] <goki> I mean, integer division just _isn't_ division, it is division and rounding
[17:56:30] <cheeser> uh....
[17:56:31] <davidw> python and tcl don't
[17:56:55] <ricky_clarkson> goki: What problem would that solve?
[17:57:02] <Mazon> goki - no, its divison and throwing stuff away
[17:57:04] <davidw> no, seperate operators isn't a bad idea either
[17:57:14] <roots-> its not rounding, its truncation
[17:57:14] <Mazon> 5/2=2
[17:57:19] <davidw> I'd considered that too, because it really places in the user's hands the choice
[17:57:26] <goki> ricky_clarkson, if you tried to use division with either operand as an int, it would warn you
[17:57:28] <roots-> its not even rounding down or rounding up
[17:57:32] <roots-> its truncating
[17:57:35] <Mazon> aye
[17:57:41] <Mazon> what I said :)
[17:57:47] <goki> ricky_clarkson, you would need to explicitly use integer division, in order to use an int operand
[17:57:57] <goki> this would stop people getting unintentionaly rounding
[17:58:14] <roots-> or rounded down when > 0 => truncation
[17:58:19] <goki> yes it rounds towards 0, whatever the term for that is
[17:58:28] *** Lamex has quit IRC
[17:58:29] <goki> truncation, works for me :)
[17:59:15] <Dekkard> ok.. so i need to dumbp that stuff.. than install oo.o manually..
[17:59:21] <Dekkard> fun.
[17:59:34] <ricky_clarkson> Why would you install oo.o manually?
[17:59:41] <Dekkard> well..
[17:59:43] <Dekkard> debian
[17:59:59] <Dekkard> if i uninstall gcj and gij from synaptic.. it will pull oo.org
[18:00:05] <ricky_clarkson> So install Java (using java-package).
[18:00:11] <Dekkard> i tried.. it failed
[18:00:15] <ricky_clarkson> How?
[18:00:28] <Dekkard> fakeroot make-jpkg blah blah
[18:00:34] <ricky_clarkson> How did it fail?
[18:00:50] <Dekkard> at the end of it all it said it didnt have permissions.. and aborted
[18:01:07] <ricky_clarkson> Well, fakeroot doesn't have permissions.
[18:01:17] <Dekkard> and you cant do it from sudo..
[18:01:18] <ricky_clarkson> The key word is fake.
[18:01:35] <ricky_clarkson> Did you ask your OS vendor?
[18:01:42] <Dekkard> lol
[18:01:52] <ricky_clarkson> You use Ubuntu, right?
[18:02:03] <goki> fakeroot appears to have permissions
[18:02:07] <Dekkard> i came here because the ubuntu room is having a lot of fun right now with the new release
[18:02:13] <ricky_clarkson> That's a shame, because Debian has good support.
[18:02:15] <goki> enough for the Sun installer to be happy
[18:02:18] <Dekkard> and they arent java people..
[18:02:31] <goki> Dekkard, wait one sec I have a page says exactly what to do
[18:02:36] <Dekkard> k
[18:02:40] <ricky_clarkson> Dekkard: Checked the Uturdu bug database.
[18:02:41] <ricky_clarkson> ?
[18:02:54] <Dekkard> itirdu..
[18:02:59] <Dekkard> cute
[18:03:00] *** henning has joined ##java
[18:03:06] <goki> Dekkard, http://serios.net/content/debian/java/
[18:03:10] <davidw> I think Ubuntu is pretty good, actually
[18:03:13] <goki> Dekkard, if that doesn't work you are in trouble
[18:03:16] <goki> ubuntu kicks ass
[18:03:33] *** wcstok has joined ##java
[18:03:33] <goki> I'm never entirely sure whether it is actually better than plain debian, but it is a little friendlier I think
[18:03:35] <Dekkard> all in all.. it works great..
[18:03:38] <ricky_clarkson> davidw: Debian is bigger; it has more user support.
[18:03:42] <goki> more packages
[18:03:43] <davidw> and I say that having been a Debian package maintainer since 1997
[18:03:58] <ricky_clarkson> davidw: Which packages?
[18:04:02] <Dekkard> currnet uturdu repos have 17,680 packages
[18:04:12] <davidw> bigger can also be problematic - sometimes too much choice is a bad thing
[18:04:24] <Dekkard> and remember shuttleworth was a deb hacker
[18:04:27] <davidw> (for instance the free java people would be better off with one or two jvm's rather than a bundle of them)
[18:04:30] *** xprment626 has joined ##java
[18:04:35] <Dekkard> gotta go
[18:04:38] <davidw> ricky_clarkson, nothing much important anymore
[18:04:46] <davidw> a couple of Tcl things these days
[18:05:08] <davidw> Debian was a good stepping stone to get involved with free software
[18:05:16] <ricky_clarkson> davidw: They use the same class libraries as each other these days; that's the redundant bit.  Or it was.
[18:05:26] <xprment626> is there a way I can compile a java program from a java program? I want to set a string to a java program and then compile it ... also, at that point can I check if compilation was successful?
[18:05:40] <roots-> ~tools.jar
[18:05:41] <javabot> roots-, I have no idea what tools.jar is.
[18:05:46] <roots-> ~Compiler
[18:05:47] <javabot> roots-, I have no idea what Compiler is.
[18:05:51] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell xprment626 about bsh
[18:05:52] <javabot> xprment626, bsh is a small, free, embeddable, Java source interpreter with object scripting language features, written in Java.  It can be found at http://www.beanshell.org.
[18:06:18] <ricky_clarkson> xprment626: Also, see the javac task in ant, and remember that you can call ant tasks from Java code.
[18:06:47] <xprment626> thanks
[18:09:39] *** Frederick has joined ##java
[18:10:59] *** xprment626 has quit IRC
[18:14:36] *** teralaser has joined ##java
[18:17:54] <davidw> hrm hrm hrm hrm hrm
[18:18:12] * davidw is going to take the call a friend option:-)
[18:20:09] *** cm_patric has joined ##java
[18:21:40] *** YLN has joined ##java
[18:23:50] <littlezoper> bsh is the bourne shell :)
[18:24:39] <davidw> what's bsh do with 10 / 3 ?
[18:25:42] *** doc|work has quit IRC
[18:27:28] <goki> beanshell
[18:27:29] *** fandeholly has joined ##java
[18:27:59] *** joaopaulo has quit IRC
[18:29:45] *** henning has quit IRC
[18:30:48] *** GnarlyBob has quit IRC
[18:31:23] *** aktinos has quit IRC
[18:32:43] *** Frederick has quit IRC
[18:33:03] *** {aaron} has joined ##java
[18:33:27] <{aaron}> in java.xml.parsers.DocumentBuilders are reusable right?
[18:33:45] *** Twiun is now known as Twiun[away]
[18:34:45] <mohadib> {aaron}: yes
[18:34:48] *** kopke has quit IRC
[18:35:12] <Bevin> Anyone from New York?
[18:35:18] <{aaron}> ok, so I can create one in say, a threadlocal, and then reusing (per-thread) indefinitely. thanks.
[18:35:20] <{aaron}> Bevin: state
[18:35:30] <Bevin> is http://www.nymetro.com a big magazine?
[18:36:31] *** Dekkard has quit IRC
[18:41:03] <{aaron}> no idea'
[18:41:08] <{aaron}> but this jt leroy story is fascinating
[18:41:59] *** dkg has joined ##java
[18:42:00] <pr3d4t0r> Bevin: It is.
[18:42:11] <Bevin> pr3d4t0r: blablalist made their homepage
[18:42:17] <dkg> hi
[18:42:23] <dkg> i installed java 1.5 on mac osx.
[18:42:23] <pr3d4t0r> Bevin: Nice.
[18:42:27] <dkg> but "java -version" tells me its still 1.4.
[18:42:37] <pr3d4t0r> dkg: Easy to fix.
[18:42:48] <dkg> how?
[18:42:50] <pr3d4t0r> dkg: The Java 5 tools are considered "developer only".
[18:43:04] <pr3d4t0r> dkg: Hold on; you have to rename a symbolic link and it'll start working fine.
[18:43:06] <cored> lo pr3d4t0r
[18:43:23] <pr3d4t0r> dkg: I don't recall if the top directory is /System/Library or /Library -- give me a sec.
[18:43:55] <dkg> thanks.
[18:44:23] *** vinse has joined ##java
[18:44:43] <pr3d4t0r> dkg: /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions
[18:44:56] <pr3d4t0r> dkg: Save the Current symbolic link as Current.org or whatever
[18:45:11] <vinse> mornin' pr3d4t0r
[18:45:12] <pr3d4t0r> dkg: Then ln -s ./1.5 Current
[18:45:15] <pr3d4t0r> cored!
[18:45:17] <pr3d4t0r> vinse!
[18:45:36] <pr3d4t0r> dkg: Next you'll have to go to Applications/Utilities/Java to do one more thing.
[18:45:47] <pr3d4t0r> dkg: Tell me when you're done with this one :)
[18:45:50] <dkg> w00t!
[18:46:00] <dkg> sec
[18:46:04] <cored> pr3d4t0r: :-)
[18:47:00] <pr3d4t0r> dkg: Dude, I have a meeting to get ready for.
[18:47:04] <dkg> macmini:/System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions dkg$ sudo rm CurrentJDK
[18:47:08] <dkg> macmini:/System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions dkg$ sudo ln -s 1.5.0/ CurrentJDK
[18:47:10] <pr3d4t0r> dkg: The last part is important.
[18:47:13] <dkg> pr3d4t0r: ok. whats next?
[18:47:24] <pr3d4t0r> dkg: Open Applications/Utilities/Java
[18:47:48] <dkg> preferencer?
[18:47:50] *** cyc|w has quit IRC
[18:47:58] <pr3d4t0r> dkg: There's a tool in there for JVM selection; I don't recall what it is because the Mac I'm in doesn't have the Java 5 tools installed.
[18:48:04] <pr3d4t0r> dkg: Yeah, that might be it.
[18:48:14] <dkg> ok, i did this also.
[18:48:18] <dkg> now it works!
[18:48:20] <dkg> perfect!
[18:48:21] <dkg> thanks.
[18:48:21] <pr3d4t0r> dkg: Select the Java plug-in version (1.3, 1.4, 5) that you want to use.
[18:48:32] <dkg> whey isn't it in the documentation?
[18:48:36] <pr3d4t0r> dkg: May the Force be with you, young jedi.
[18:48:40] <pr3d4t0r> dkg: It is.
[18:48:58] <pr3d4t0r> dkg: It's hidden somewhere in the developer site and in the Java 5 documentation that you get from Apple (separate package).
[18:49:31] *** roots- has quit IRC
[18:55:20] <pr3d4t0r> La, la, la... have a good morning, peepers.
[18:56:29] *** Rene_ has quit IRC
[18:56:36] *** W|ldCraze has joined ##java
[18:59:08] *** ohsix has quit IRC
[18:59:16] *** berzerka has quit IRC
[18:59:33] <YLN> any portuguese or brasilian person here?
[19:03:23] *** Amnesiac has joined ##java
[19:03:34] *** davidw has quit IRC
[19:05:05] *** cyc|w has joined ##java
[19:07:44] *** Stigma has joined ##java
[19:08:26] *** Stigma has left ##java
[19:08:37] *** Stigma has joined ##java
[19:08:44] <Mazon> anyone tried LWJGL and GCJ ?
[19:09:22] *** cdubya has joined ##java
[19:09:27] <ernimril> Mazon: I have tried gcj, it is not good enough yet
[19:09:45] <Mazon> gcj or lwjgl ? :)
[19:09:57] *** gverig has joined ##java
[19:10:16] <Mazon> I remember one person trying it once
[19:10:17] <ernimril> YLN: why do you think I want you to pm?
[19:10:23] <Mazon> but there were some blockers
[19:10:26] <Mazon> in gcj
[19:10:38] <ernimril> Mazon: why do you ask about gcj?
[19:10:42] <Mazon> YLN: aye - dont PM me either
[19:10:47] *** auv has joined ##java
[19:10:58] <YLN> ok sorry
[19:10:59] <Mazon> coz I want to check gcj + lwjgl + swt
[19:11:03] 
[19:11:25] <Mazon> usually you should never send messages directly to any person - good rule
[19:11:26] <ernimril> YLN: most people do not like pm, so ask first
[19:11:29] 
[19:11:55] <vinse> i'm from america, so mine isnt so good either
[19:12:03] *** Stigma has quit IRC
[19:12:04] <YLN> its complicated to talk in the public channel
[19:12:17] <YLN> i need to know something more about bintrees
[19:12:27] <YLN> how to do in java
[19:12:39] *** cdubya has left ##java
[19:12:47] <YLN> anyone here recomends any ebook or something like that?
[19:13:10] <Mazon> YLN: http://www.google.com/search?q=binary%20tree%20tutorial%20java
[19:13:41] <YLN> :\ ok
[19:14:34] <Mazon> ernimril: Eclipse will provide an opengl binding for use with swt - accessed with lwjgl, and I want to gcj it all
[19:15:11] <cheeser> my condolences.
[19:15:55] <ernimril> Mazon: gcj will probably give you lots of problems. it is not as good/fast as the jvm and it does not come with the full api
[19:16:16] <ernimril> Mazon: but eclipse is shipped that way by redhat, so some applications work
[19:16:22] *** {aaron} has left ##java
[19:16:31] <Mazon> is gcj _that_ bad ?
[19:16:38] <ernimril> Mazon: tias
[19:16:48] <ernimril> Mazon: it is getting better....
[19:17:05] <ernimril> Mazon: gcj does not handle java/5 yet. If you use generics you can forget about gcj
[19:17:24] <ernimril> Mazon: gcjx is not mature enough to use last time I tested it (some time ago)
[19:17:44] <Mazon> k, *grumble*
[19:18:09] *** Stigma has joined ##java
[19:19:29] *** doc|home has joined ##java
[19:20:13] *** Torquemada has joined ##java
[19:23:17] *** goki has quit IRC
[19:23:41] *** headhunter has quit IRC
[19:24:04] *** Baloogan has joined ##java
[19:24:16] <Baloogan> Helloes. Can a java3d guru help me?
[19:24:45] <Baloogan> I want to change a transform3d object after I've compiled and such the scene
[19:24:59] <Baloogan> I want to increase transform3d's.rotX or something.
[19:26:42] *** Future101 has joined ##java
[19:27:29] *** GnarlyBob has joined ##java
[19:32:13] <Baloogan> how do I update a scene?
[19:32:18] <Baloogan> From user input?
[19:32:25] *** Sou|cutter has joined ##java
[19:32:29] <Baloogan> Like rotate a sphere
[19:32:35] <Baloogan> Could someone point me to a tutorial?
[19:32:41] <Baloogan> please?
[19:33:17] <fmachado> if I'm not wrong, jboss was bought... right?
[19:33:57] <cheeser> i haven't heard anything about that.
[19:35:24] *** fandeholly has quit IRC
[19:35:43] <fmachado> err
[19:35:48] <fmachado> "Application server giant IBM recently bought JBoss' rival Gluecode, a move that challenges JBoss from a business and a technology perspective. IBM can now sell to the kind of cost-conscious customers targeted by JBoss, by offering them a subscription-based member of its WebSphere application server family."
[19:35:56] <fmachado> sorry
[19:37:29] <cheeser> 8^)=
[19:37:50] <cheeser> javabot: feed cheeser
[19:37:51] <javabot> 10 poke cheeser, 0xdeadbeef
[19:37:53] <cheeser> mmmmm.
[19:38:26] <ricky_clarkson> javabot: shower cheeser
[19:38:26] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, I have no idea what shower cheeser is.
[19:38:44] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: with love and affection?
[19:39:05] *** netseeker has joined ##java
[19:39:32] *** xi5hnik has joined ##java
[19:39:33] *** teralaser has quit IRC
[19:39:45] *** r3tex has quit IRC
[19:40:38] *** dvoss has joined ##java
[19:45:30] <mohadib> moo?
[19:46:45] <Amnesiac> hey cheeser, mohadib, ricky_clarkson :P
[19:48:22] <mohadib> howdy Amnesiac
[19:48:27] *** netseeker has quit IRC
[19:48:47] <mohadib> Amnesiac: I'm suprised you remember us :p
[19:48:57] <mohadib> maybe you're getting better
[19:49:11] <xi5hnik> Amnesiac!
[19:49:44] *** lkz has joined ##java
[19:50:27] <lkz> Hey, how do I setup which keyboard layout I wish to use in Java? Im using a danish keyboard and need to process special danish letters
[19:50:57] <xi5hnik> lkz: Look at localization.
[19:51:01] <lkz> thanks
[19:51:16] <Amnesiac> mohadib, hahaha I'm getting back my memories
[19:51:23] <Amnesiac> mohadib, btw, where am I? :P
[19:51:25] <Amnesiac> xi5hnik, hey
[19:51:40] <xi5hnik> lkz: Oyur kbd is fine.  The problem is that Java needs to know how to display what you typed :)
[19:51:47] <Amnesiac> xi5hnik, why the change now?
[19:52:02] <xi5hnik> Amnesiac: I'm in a meeting.
[19:52:05] <mohadib> Amnesiac: :p
[19:52:11] <Amnesiac> xi5hnik, oh :P
[19:52:11] <lkz> xik5hnik: whats what I meant, just came out wrong =)
[19:52:14] <xi5hnik> Amnesiac: From my Palm.
[19:52:20] *** Baloogan has quit IRC
[19:52:25] <xi5hnik> lkz: :)
[19:52:25] <Amnesiac> xi5hnik, o.O
[19:52:34] *** cilquirm has quit IRC
[19:56:49] *** lkz has left ##java
[19:59:27] *** xi5hnik has quit IRC
[19:59:59] *** Mot has quit IRC
[20:00:02] *** nTfirewall2 has joined ##java
[20:00:08] *** Cow_woC has joined ##java
[20:00:32] <nTfirewall2> ThreadGroup group = new ThreadGroup("Thread Group"+3);   << in this line what does +3 do ?
[20:00:59] *** mrsolo has joined ##java
[20:02:06] <Mazon> gives it a name + 3
[20:02:25] <mohadib> adds the string 3 to the end
[20:02:25] <Mazon> why it is fixed to 3 is beyond me
[20:02:40] <Cow_woC> moo
[20:03:46] <nTfirewall2> ThreadGroup3 << is that what it will do
[20:04:03] <nTfirewall2> Thread Group3 *
[20:04:09] *** AlphaOmega_wrk has quit IRC
[20:04:58] *** AlphaOmega_wrk has joined ##java
[20:08:44] <rogue-kun{B}> thuse + "3" is proble prefurible 8)
[20:09:08] <jmalicki> or even "ThreadGroup3", since its already a string :)
[20:09:18] <jmalicki> why you even want the + is beyond me
[20:09:28] <rogue-kun{B}> jmalicki true 8)
[20:10:30] <rogue-kun{B}> thoug if it was: int counter = 3; ThreadGroup group = new ThreadGroup("Thread Group"+ counter);     would be understanible 8)
[20:11:38] *** enervate has joined ##java
[20:13:12] *** deputycleric has quit IRC
[20:15:40] <auv> hi, could you advise the best book about JSP and Servlets?
[20:17:39] <nTfirewall2> thank you guys
[20:18:32] * pr3d4t0r is back.
[20:18:45] <pr3d4t0r> auv: The best is relative.
[20:18:59] <pr3d4t0r> auv: Start with O'Reilly books if you want dead tree versions.
[20:19:19] <pr3d4t0r> auv: Check out things like the Sun (and others') on-line tutorials first.
[20:19:38] *** deputycleric has joined ##java
[20:19:58] *** MindZEye has joined ##java
[20:21:18] <amphiboid> hmmm Joshua Bloch said in "Effective Java" (my bible) that "thread groups are largely obsolete" (item 53: "Avoid Thread groups").  Besides the uncaughtException(), is there any feature of ThreadGroup worth using?  Any change in 1.5 that make them non-obsolete anymore (for me 1.5's setDefaultUncaughtExceptionHandler made ThreadGroup even *more* obsolete :)
[20:21:45] * rogue-kun{B} second pr3d4t0r O'Reilly is always a good starting point for dead tree 8)
[20:21:50] <auv> pr3d4t0r, not basic, but the most i'd say deep
[20:23:07] *** Mell has quit IRC
[20:23:19] * rogue-kun{B} likes O'Relien of giving a discout to anyone that own a prvouse edtion why buying a new edtion 8)
[20:23:35] *** Future101 has quit IRC
[20:24:16] <mohadib> man i wish NamedNodeMap implimented the map interface
[20:29:42] <amphiboid> rogue-kun{B}: since the many months I frequent this channel, I begni too wondpr: do yu hav scritp taht invesre and remov leterst automatcilay ?
[20:29:50] <amphiboid> :)
[20:33:43] *** vate has quit IRC
[20:34:13] *** cybereal has joined ##java
[20:35:33] <ricky_clarkson> Amnesiac: Hola, senor.
[20:36:12] *** ohsix has joined ##java
[20:37:03] *** asac_ has joined ##java
[20:39:28] <pr3d4t0r> Hrm... Daniel Craig as James Bond...  we'll have to wait and see.
[20:41:50] <Amnesiac> o.O
[20:41:53] <Amnesiac> for the next movie?
[20:45:36] <Sou|cutter> pr3d4t0r: I think 007 should go away for a while.. needs a rest
[20:46:10] <rogue-kun{B}> amphiboid: i have dygraphia.o install in my wetware OS and it will not let me uninstall it
[20:46:15] <cybereal> the next movie will be better
[20:46:18] <cybereal> Casino Royale
[20:46:30] <cybereal> for one, it's based on an actual Ian Fleming book, not just some contrive b.s.
[20:46:46] * rogue-kun{B} prefured Brosan 8(
[20:46:55] <cybereal> second, they claim to be pushing the original bond style, him being a cold jerk of a killer and no Q or whatnot, not a gadget fest... it should be interesting
[20:47:05] *** bpalmer has quit IRC
[20:47:37] <cybereal> I liked Brosnan as bond but he's kind of old now
[20:47:49] <Sou|cutter> Brosnan was better than Dalton
[20:47:56] <cybereal> Dunno if I agree with you on that
[20:48:06] <cybereal> Better than Moore though, for sure
[20:48:12] <Sou|cutter> for me it takes a lot to make up for a cleft chin
[20:48:15] * Sou|cutter grins
[20:48:19] <rogue-kun{B}> on only reason Brosnan is only number 2 on my list of best bonds, is Connory came first 8)
[20:48:39] * cybereal has all bond movies on dvd... hasn't watched all of them yet though :)
[20:49:34] *** asac has quit IRC
[20:49:36] *** asac_ is now known as asac
[20:50:35] <Sou|cutter> they should pull a batman begins and show the 'creation' or training or whatever of 007
[20:51:34] <cybereal> sorta what's happening actually
[20:51:38] <rogue-kun{B}> lol the Recruiting of James Bond 8)
[20:51:40] <cybereal> Casino Royale is Fleming's first bond book
[20:51:48] <Sou|cutter> cool
[20:51:49] <dvoss> I read that book. It was weird.
[20:51:55] <Sou|cutter> cybereal: I've been meaning to read it
[20:52:36] *** franl has quit IRC
[20:53:19] <cybereal> Sou|cutter: me too :) I haven't read any bond books, I just know it's his first one... I'm always a big bond movie fan though so I'm excited to see a real Fleming story again
[20:54:18] <Sou|cutter> cybereal: screenwriters are able to mangle even the best stories... but I agree, I'll watch it
[20:55:30] <rogue-kun{B}> Sou|cutter: I know what you mean, Sugger to think abouyt what happend to The Power of One
[20:56:35] <ricky_clarkson> Amnesiac: Is there some rule about which things you separate the 'lo' for?  E.g., "lo quiero" y "aserlo".
[20:56:39] <cybereal> As long as they don't start remaking bond adventures I think I'll be ok ... first mention of remaking Dr. NO and MGM gets banned from my shelves!
[20:57:31] <ernimril> cybereal: http://imdb.com/title/tt0061452/
[20:58:00] *** corben has joined ##java
[20:58:18] <ernimril> cybereal: not sure if it counts, it may be very different...
[20:59:42] <Sou|cutter> "Trivia: A carpet beater can be seen hanging from the side of Orson Welles's chair. This is a link to the original Casino Royale novel, in which Le Chiffre tortures Bond by thrashing his testicles with a carpet beater." lol
[20:59:56] <cybereal> ernimril: it's a parody
[21:00:00] <cybereal> so it doesn't count
[21:00:31] <cybereal> Sou|cutter: yay daniel craig gets to have his nuts thrashed... that'll teach him to mess with Lara Cro... wait.. :)
[21:03:00] <Sou|cutter> sound kinky
[21:03:26] *** shingoki has joined ##java
[21:03:30] <Sou|cutter> it's funny how you can write that in a book, but showing that in a movie is a lot more "extreme" somehow.
[21:03:33] *** cowbud has quit IRC
[21:04:12] <ernimril> Sou|cutter: finding an actor that is willing may be a problem...
[21:04:17] <cybereal> Yeah.. though if you remember, in Die Another Day bond gets the crap beat out of him in prison for a while
[21:04:55] *** YD has joined ##java
[21:05:08] <cybereal> heh prerequisites used to choose Daniel Craig: "Do you mind if we smack you in the nuts with a stick repeatedly?"
[21:05:25] <cybereal> of course his reply is "Nuts?  Lara Croft cut off my nuts, that'll be just fine."
[21:06:33] *** OleMoudi has joined ##java
[21:08:14] *** amphiboid has quit IRC
[21:11:01] <mohadib> is it possible to have eclipse not bring up the the com.sun pkgs and classes when ctrl + space is hit?
[21:11:22] <mohadib> or , is it possible to remove java.swt.list from the same popup
[21:11:44] <fmachado> may I type an url with java ebooks or w4r3z is forbidden here?
[21:12:04] *** auv has quit IRC
[21:12:11] *** ThinkNOLA has quit IRC
[21:12:44] <mohadib> fmachado: it's frowned upon
[21:13:57] *** vorojak has joined ##java
[21:14:03] <vorojak> hey guys
[21:14:15] <ernimril> hello vorojak
[21:14:30] <Sou|cutter> fmachado: no
[21:15:02] <errr> in C I can do sizeof(int) for example to get the max size of the value, is there a way to do this on java?
[21:15:11] *** yhonnkar has joined ##java
[21:15:15] <cheeser> an int is always 32 bits
[21:15:23] <yhonnkar> help me please :S
[21:15:29] <cheeser> javabot: tell yhonnkar about ask
[21:15:29] <javabot> yhonnkar, The Ask To Ask protocol wastes more bandwidth than any version of the Ask protocol, so just ask your question.
[21:15:33] <fmachado> Sou|cutter, ok
[21:15:42] 
[21:15:55] <errr> cheeser: yeah, but that was just an example, Id like to do the same for all data types
[21:16:03] <yhonnkar> # java Oreneta.java
[21:16:03] <yhonnkar> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Oreneta/java
[21:16:03] <Sou|cutter> errr: the Java Language Specification (JLS) contains this information (in Java it does not change).
[21:16:22] <Sou|cutter> ~tell errr about jls
[21:16:23] <javabot> errr, jls is The Java Language Specification: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/
[21:16:24] <cheeser> errr: all data types have a fixed size.
[21:16:35] <errr> Sou|cutter: ok, but is there something I can use to print this info in a program.
[21:16:40] <ernimril> errr: sizeof does not give the max size, it gives the number of bytes used by a type...
[21:16:44] <cheeser> yhonnkar: java takes class names.  javac takes file names.
[21:17:01] <errr> ernimril: thats the info I want from java too
[21:17:07] <yhonnkar> cheeser, :s Ok
[21:17:29] <Sou|cutter> errr: You can use your brain to read the JLS and take what is written there and place it into a String that you output in your program
[21:17:34] <ernimril> errr: Integer.SIZE
[21:17:46] <ernimril> errr: well that is the number of bits...
[21:17:50] <errr> Sou|cutter: thanks, but I would rather not have to type it into a bunch pf prinlns if I dont have to
[21:17:52] *** Wack has joined ##java
[21:17:53] *** Amnesiac has quit IRC
[21:18:19] <Sou|cutter> errr: you're not saving yourself any work
[21:18:27] <errr> Sou|cutter: thats why I ws asking if there is something built in that I can use.
[21:18:33] <ernimril> errr: as always, if you want information about the primitive types you start by reading the javadoc for the wrapper class
[21:18:45] * Sou|cutter nods to ernimril
[21:18:56] <errr> Sou|cutter: if the answer is no why not just say no instead of being an ass trying to act like I am stupid for asking
[21:19:12] <ernimril> errr: and if there is an Integer.SIZE you can be pretty sure there is a SIZE in all of the wrapper classes
[21:19:22] <errr> ok thanks.
[21:19:25] <cheeser> errr: ooh.  new in 1.5.
[21:19:35] <cheeser> i guess because of the 64 bit platforms coming out
[21:19:45] <Sou|cutter> errr: Sorry if I sound an ass, I generally -do- try to help.
[21:19:59] <cheeser> and he generally *is* an ass.
[21:20:01] * cheeser ducks.
[21:20:06] * Sou|cutter grins
[21:20:25] *** jor has quit IRC
[21:20:39] <errr> thanks for the replys.
[21:20:53] <ernimril> errr: failing to check the javadoc makes you look stupid. So please try that before asking next time...
[21:21:46] <errr> what ever
[21:22:02] *** Wack has quit IRC
[21:22:13] <pandora--> haha
[21:22:42] <shingoki> heh a lot of aggro tonight
[21:22:56] <pandora--> *today
[21:23:01] <pandora--> fix your stupid clock
[21:23:10] <pandora--> its 12:22
[21:23:15] <pandora--> *rolls eyes(
[21:23:16] <pandora--> *
[21:23:17] <ernimril> well I have not got my monthly "be nice in ##java" payment yet...
[21:23:19] <shingoki> All over the world! ;)
[21:23:20] <yhonnkar> bye}
[21:23:23] *** yhonnkar has left ##java
[21:23:32] <pandora--> i havent gotten my "be nice" check either
[21:23:34] * shingoki resets time to 12:22, wonders why it is dark outside
[21:23:36] <pandora--> so, "f" you all.
[21:23:45] <Sou|cutter> ernimril: yeah, there must be some problem with the system.  I've never gotten any of those cheques
[21:24:11] <ernimril> probably time to complain to the channel management..
[21:24:16] <cheeser> i've been cashing them all and buying pop tarts.
[21:24:23] <pandora--> ernimril: totally
[21:24:33] <pandora--> cheeser: you dick
[21:24:48] <shingoki> mmmm.... pop tarts....
[21:25:05] <pandora--> poptarts == poor mans scone
[21:25:09] <cheeser> mmmmm.
[21:26:19] <cybereal> Toaster Strudels > pop tarts
[21:26:25] <shingoki> poptarts are printed food, the way of the future
[21:27:48] <pandora--> haha printed food?
[21:27:51] *** Nippa has joined ##java
[21:27:55] <pandora--> cybereal: ive never had those
[21:28:46] <ricky_clarkson> Poptars are crap.
[21:28:52] <ricky_clarkson> Sorry, popstars.
[21:28:54] <ricky_clarkson>  ;)
[21:29:00] <shingoki> pandora--, yeah I reckon they have a big machine that prints out the layers of edible plastic and sugar and sweetened wood pulp and stuff
[21:29:19] <shingoki> Then they add a sprinkling of love, and they are ready
[21:29:38] <cybereal> Damnit, this is all making me hungry
[21:29:40] <ricky_clarkson> Oh, so that's what that creamy bit was.
[21:29:40] <cybereal> I want cornbread
[21:29:52] *** jeziel has quit IRC
[21:30:22] <shingoki> ricky_clarkson, that's a different type of love...
[21:31:55] *** stew has joined ##java
[21:35:59] *** Bevin has quit IRC
[21:36:06] *** iii has joined ##java
[21:36:08] <iii> hi
[21:36:10] <iii> http://imagebin.org/3662 im wondering if whether the add remove and update functions in the Product and Company class should merge into a new class. maybe place them in DataManager
[21:37:33] *** kasper has quit IRC
[21:37:53] <Sou|cutter> iii: up to you.  It is common to put that sort of thing in a separate DAO class (whether it's one giant DAO, or a few smaller DAOs, etc, is another choice for you)
[21:38:39] <iii> DAO?
[21:38:51] <mohadib> data access object
[21:38:55] <Sou|cutter> ~tell iii about dao
[21:38:55] <javabot> iii, dao is Data Access Objects, a pattern to abstract the actual persistence away from the classes themselves.  A (presuambly) complete discussion can be found at http://java.sun.com/blueprints/corej2eepatterns/Patterns/DataAccessObject.html
[21:39:21] <Sou|cutter> iii: DataManager for example seems to be one
[21:39:30] <iii> oh an abstraction layer
[21:40:24] <stew> "Semantic Warning: This switch block can fall through to the next case. Did you forget a break statement?" <-- anyone know if its possible to suppress this jikes warning?
[21:40:49] <mohadib> dont use a switch , use a map?
[21:41:22] <stew> i can't use a map
[21:41:38] <slava> mohadib!
[21:41:39] <mohadib> why?
[21:41:42] <mohadib> sup slava
[21:41:47] <slava> mohadib: hitting switches and making bitches
[21:41:50] <slava> macking*
[21:41:52] <mohadib> lol
[21:41:55] <mohadib> word
[21:42:03] <stew> mohadib: becuaes map is >1.1 only
[21:42:24] <Kallistor> maybe adding a default: case would help
[21:42:26] <iii> Sou|cutter currently DataManager is used to connect to the db. Now, im thinking it should retrieve the relevant data from the db and through HTML POST query strings
[21:42:35] <stew> Kallistor: no, there is a default case
[21:42:36] <Kallistor> a catch all case
[21:42:57] <Kallistor> weird :)
[21:43:36] <mohadib> stew: so you are saying previous to 1.1 there is no map like data structure
[21:43:36] <mohadib> ?
[21:44:03] <nTfirewall2> is it possible to have a method inside a method
[21:44:04] <ernimril> mohadib: Hashtable
[21:44:12] <mohadib> thats what i thought
[21:44:15] <stew> yeah, ok there is,...
[21:44:23] <mohadib> nTfirewall2: no
[21:44:40] <mohadib> nTfirewall2: you can put a anonymous class in a method
[21:44:49] <nTfirewall2> thanks
[21:44:50] <Sou|cutter> stew: A warning is only a warning.  You can ignore it with your brain if you know that it is supposed to be that way (I never understood why people need a 100% clean, no warnings, no error messages build)
[21:44:52] <mohadib> np
[21:44:59] <Sou|cutter> well, no error messages I can understand
[21:45:00] <Sou|cutter> hehe
[21:45:31] <cybereal> Sou|cutter: anal retentiveness
[21:45:43] <ernimril> Sou|cutter: If you have a large system and you allow 10 warnings you will soon have 100 and then 1000 at wich point no one can care about warnings...
[21:45:54] * cheeser nods sagely.
[21:46:14] <cheeser> and usually those warnings are things you should resolve regardless.
[21:47:14] *** ksnash has joined ##java
[21:47:23] <stew> i could resolve this warning with a goto :)
[21:47:34] <vinse> gmail is currently not sending outgoing mail :/
[21:47:49] <vinse> some one else try so i can verify it's not local pls~
[21:48:13] <ksnash> I have gotten my jpeg program to work :)
[21:48:24] *** wms has quit IRC
[21:48:27] <Sou|cutter> ernimril: When you get that many warnings, refactor
[21:48:37] <Sou|cutter> ernimril: one or two, *shrug*
[21:48:48] <ernimril> Sou|cutter: well I keep a no-warnings policy..
[21:48:50] <ksnash> Just had to take out most of the things I was told to do in here.
[21:49:17] <ernimril> Sou|cutter: it is easy to have zero warnings or to not care and have a million...
[21:49:27] <Sou|cutter> ernimril: I think strict adherance to rules like that is a bit foolish.
[21:49:58] <cheeser> vinse: it buffers
[21:49:59] <Sou|cutter> ernimril: but hey, I have my "rules" too
[21:50:41] <ernimril> Sou|cutter: well we do use javac so we do not get that many warnings. We do not do -Xlint:all or even -Xlint:<some other stuff> yet
[21:51:07] *** Bevin has joined ##java
[21:51:24] <ernimril> Sou|cutter: we run findbugs, but we do not keep a 0-warnings there...
[21:51:37] <Sou|cutter> ernimril: well, findbugs warnings are another beast
[21:51:52] *** amorph has joined ##java
[21:52:51] *** YLN has quit IRC
[21:58:14] *** jmop has joined ##java
[21:58:29] *** fr3dd has joined ##java
[21:58:33] <jmop> i'm taking an array of integers, and have to cast them to float's
[21:58:34] <jmop> float[] p=((float[])((ArraySymbol)getSymbol(sym)).getValues());
[21:58:41] <cheeser> loop
[21:58:52] <jmop> dammit
[21:58:57] <jmop> theres no easy way
[21:59:33] <jmop> oh nevermind
[21:59:38] <jmop> this guy has int decribed
[21:59:39] <jmop> no need to cast.
[22:04:09] *** nTfirewall2 has quit IRC
[22:07:37] <mohadib> heh
[22:08:04] *** ohsix has quit IRC
[22:09:43] <mohadib> i think with pritives you could try   Arrays.asList((float[])array);
[22:09:48] <mohadib> primitives
[22:10:44] <cheeser> i don't think so
[22:11:30] <mohadib> i think with pritives you could try   Arrays.asList(array).toArray(new float[array.length]); ?
[22:12:09] <cheeser> i don't think so
[22:12:11] <mohadib> heh
[22:12:21] <pr3d4t0r> w00t!
[22:12:43] * pr3d4t0r fl3x0rs.
[22:12:56] *** ksnash has quit IRC
[22:12:59] *** damg has joined ##java
[22:13:16] <jmop> don't worry about it......
[22:13:29] <jmop> this guys reading integers from a file so i don't need to worry
[22:14:52] *** stew has quit IRC
[22:16:39] *** jmop has quit IRC
[22:19:07] *** cozby has joined ##java
[22:19:12] *** brandonhud has quit IRC
[22:19:19] <cozby> hey, i'm having  a problem with declaring a vector...
[22:19:59] <cheeser> Vector v;
[22:20:02] <cozby> I'm declaring a vector the following way.. Vector<Tray> Tray = new Vector<Tray>(); as a private memeber in a class
[22:20:22] <lunk> heh
[22:20:25] <cozby> but i get the error
[22:20:25] <cozby> The type Vector is not generic; it cannot be parameterized with arguments <Object>
[22:20:39] <cozby> I dont get it?
[22:20:47] <cheeser> try it with ArrayList
[22:20:50] <cozby> im using 1.5
[22:21:22] <ernimril> cozby: where do you get that? in console or in eclipse/<other ide>?
[22:21:33] <cozby> ernimril , eclipse
[22:21:38] <ernimril> cozby: it would seem that you use a 1.4 jvm
[22:21:43] <cheeser> use a compiler against that source
[22:22:03] <ernimril> cozby: your eclipse settings seems broken. I do not use eclipse so I can not help you.
[22:22:38] <damg> cozby, check Project->Properties->Compiler
[22:22:39] <cozby> really eh, hrm, ok i'll look into the eclipse settings
[22:22:51] <cozby> damg , will do
[22:23:23] <damg> !throw new HeadExplodedException("too much code for today");
[22:26:07] <cozby> damg , thanks, that did it. Compiler compliance was set to 1.4, - changed it to 5 and everythings gravy. Cheers =P
[22:26:14] <damg> np :D
[22:27:08] <damg> btw, as we are speaking about j5: I heard that swing's performance has been tweaked in j5, is that true (i didn't have a swing project until now, so I can't really compare)
[22:27:11] <damg> ?
[22:28:57] <mohadib> damg: swing is much faster in 1.5
[22:29:08] <mohadib> and lost of stiff works better
[22:29:10] <mohadib> stuff
[22:29:19] <mohadib> and it looks a little better
[22:29:26] <mohadib> litlle
[22:29:27] <cybereal> pff it looks a lot better
[22:29:34] <mohadib> i dont think so
[22:29:47] *** censored has quit IRC
[22:29:51] <mohadib> it looks just like metal with a few new colors
[22:30:33] <cybereal> previous to 1.5 metal looked so archaic
[22:30:36] <damg> mohadib, well, until ill need a GUI, I have some time :D - have to implement full core plus net interface
[22:30:37] <cybereal> bleh
[22:30:52] <damg> thanks for the info
[22:31:00] <mohadib> sure
[22:31:14] *** [GT]Kane has joined ##java
[22:31:28] <[GT]Kane> does it make a diffrence if I compile under 32bit vs 64bit?
[22:31:30] *** cozby has quit IRC
[22:31:38] <cybereal> it shouldn't matter
[22:31:42] <[GT]Kane> kk
[22:31:54] <[GT]Kane> there way make java run smoother under 64bit?
[22:31:56] <cybereal> But sometimes you know, things don't work like they "should."
[22:31:59] *** BrianB04 has joined ##java
[22:31:59] <damg> [GT]Kane, huh? java bytecode is no native code -> it is CPU independent
[22:32:14] *** BrianB04 has left ##java
[22:32:19] <[GT]Kane> <damg> so I guess that means it does not matter ^^
[22:32:20] *** BrianB04 has joined ##java
[22:32:25] *** Mot has joined ##java
[22:32:32] *** deputycleric is now known as YHWH__
[22:33:41] <damg> [GT]Kane, it doesn't matter as long as you don't have any problems. If you run into any, remember: it's not a feature, but a bug, if the compiler generates non-portable code. Well, I never had any problems with java on amd64, Celeron, P4 (+Hyperthreading) ;)
[22:34:25] <rogue-kun{B}> while bytecode is CPU idpend it is not VM independ.
[22:34:30] <damg> [GT]Kane, just remember that JNId code for arch x is not compatible with arch y (e.g.x86 and amd64 or SPARC and PPC)
[22:34:48] <cybereal> [GT]Kane: Also don't forget to tie your shoes!
[22:34:55] <[GT]Kane> lol
[22:35:05] <[GT]Kane> thsi sucks my exlipse aint loading
[22:35:10] <BrianB04> Afternoon/Evening to you all.
[22:35:11] <[GT]Kane> exlipse*
[22:35:17] <[GT]Kane> woot it loaded
[22:35:37] <damg> will anyone take some time to place comments on the class I'm currently developing pls? (are just 2000+ lines plus 0 lines of // or /**/
[22:35:44] <damg> :D
[22:35:58] <mohadib> gross
[22:36:23] <mohadib> damg: i will if you will write this swing gui with a 1001 textfields and labels?
[22:36:25] <damg> and tomorrow when ill try to comment that code? it will be plain o_O
[22:36:35] <ernimril> damg: you know at work we have a pre-commit hook that ensures that we do not get that large files into subversion...
[22:36:43] <rogue-kun{B}> damg: the peoson who write the codes should be the one to comment it, to tell other what it's ment to do 8)
[22:37:19] <damg> ernimril, that's not a problem, ill place new JText and JLabel (or whatever they are called) into for or while :D
[22:40:17] *** bright has joined ##java
[22:41:12] <mohadib> nice , i found some moon boots for my Napoleon costume http://www.hottopic.com/store/product.asp?ITEM=777260
[22:41:15] <mohadib> SWEET
[22:42:10] *** linuxfreck has quit IRC
[22:43:24] <vinse> do the chickens have large talons?
[22:43:41] *** fr3dd has quit IRC
[22:43:58] *** Honk^away has quit IRC
[22:44:14] *** Honk^away has joined ##java
[22:44:34] <mohadib> ~vinse++
[22:44:35] <javabot> vinse has a karma level of 22, mohadib
[22:44:59] * mohadib pays vinse $5 in nickels
[22:45:31] <damg> ill kill that admin, now when my code is ready for testing the remote host I need to connect to is down :/
[22:46:47] <dvoss> Is there a convenience method of some kind so I don't have to do this:
[22:46:58] <dvoss> if (item == null && this.item == null) return;
[22:47:05] <dvoss> if (item.equals(this.item)) return;
[22:47:17] *** BrianB04 has left ##java
[22:47:26] *** shaggyoaf has joined ##java
[22:47:32] <dvoss> (These are setters, in case you hadn't guessed.)
[22:48:06] <damg> ill need to move to an another machine, cheers
[22:48:08] *** damg has quit IRC
[22:48:20] <shaggyoaf> I have an ant question that I'm going to ask here since I suspect a lot of you might know and there are so few people in ##ant
[22:48:26] <shaggyoaf> I've got a path: <path id="svnant.cp"> <fileset dir="/usr/share/ant/lib/" includes="**/*.jar"/> </path>
[22:48:28] <shaggyoaf> and later: <taskdef name="svn" classname="org.tigris.subversion.svnant.SvnTask" classpathref="svnant.cp"/>
[22:48:34] <shaggyoaf> but I'm getting an error: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/tigris/subversion/javahl/ClientException
[22:48:39] <shaggyoaf> I know that ClientException.class is a member of one of the jar files in /usr/share/ant/lib
[22:48:44] <shaggyoaf> what part of this setup am I not doing correctly?
[22:49:20] <ernimril> gah.... I knew there are some reasons I still prefer make over ant... :-)
[22:49:28] <shaggyoaf> me too
[22:49:36] <shaggyoaf> but ant is what I'm stuck with for now
[22:51:08] <shaggyoaf> ...anybody?
[22:52:33] *** Hikaru79 has joined ##java
[22:53:09] <Hikaru79> Is there anything in the Java standard library (or a freely available one) for parsing basic POSIX conf files? (typical field=value type things, where #=comment, etc)?
[22:53:26] <slava> there's no such thing as a POSIX conf file
[22:53:30] <littlezoper> ~tell Hikaru79 about javadoc Properties
[22:53:31] <javabot> Hikaru79, please see java.util.Properties: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/Properties.html
[22:55:52] <shaggyoaf> omg, it was a bad svnant build
[22:55:55] <shaggyoaf> nevermiund
[22:56:03] <shaggyoaf> s/nevermiund/nevermind
[22:56:04] *** joev has quit IRC
[22:58:49] <Hikaru79> littlezoper, how does the Properties class handle Unicode? Will it succesfully store things like '日本の?
[22:59:27] <cheeser> you give the reader the encoding, iirc
[23:00:11] <littlezoper> i don't unicode, so I really don't know :P
[23:00:56] *** ractrev has joined ##java
[23:01:16] <rogue-kun{B}> I know java can unicode, but I don't rember how
[23:01:17] *** ractrev has quit IRC
[23:01:21] *** bpalmer has joined ##java
[23:01:28] <axxo> java always does unicode
[23:01:35] *** Frederick has joined ##java
[23:01:40] * cheeser nods sagely.
[23:01:44] <cheeser> just not in IO
[23:01:46] <cheeser> 8^)=
[23:01:46] *** sanj has quit IRC
[23:02:10] <rogue-kun{B}> hence it does not always unicode ;)
[23:02:13] <Hikaru79> Thanks guys =)
[23:02:24] *** sh4dowcat has quit IRC
[23:04:20] <Drone> View dvoss's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8332
[23:04:21] <dvoss> I wrote a trivial Equality class to check for two objects being equal() or both null. Java is such a pain, it takes three lines to do that. Anyway, it's pasted.
[23:07:04] *** Twiun[away] is now known as Twiun
[23:07:09] <Hikaru79> Can I ask netbeans questions in here?
[23:08:30] <cheeser> sure
[23:08:52] <cheeser> 3 whole lines?  whoa!
[23:09:00] <Hikaru79> I'm on Windows and trying to access a project that is on a mounted network drive. If I copy and paste the folder to a local drive, netbeans loads it fine. however, If I try to load it directly from the server, it doesnt appear as a project folder and therefore is un-openable. Anyone know why this is? Is it intentional?
[23:10:55] *** RProgrammer has joined ##java
[23:11:56] <dvoss> cheeser, you scoff, but there's no way equality checking should take that much typing!
[23:12:32] <cheeser> you can't compare values if they're null.
[23:12:38] <cheeser> or one of them is.
[23:12:42] <cheeser> you have to check for that.
[23:15:55] *** amorph has quit IRC
[23:15:56] <dvoss> Doesn't the latest version of Java have some sort of automatic boxing/unboxing? Does that mean they've introduced a Null class?
[23:16:03] <mohadib> scoff?
[23:16:16] <mohadib> nvm
[23:16:54] <cheeser> javabot: javadoc Null
[23:16:54] <javabot> I don't know of any documentation for Null
[23:22:44] <slava> obj1 == null ? obj2 == null : obj1.equals(obj2)
[23:22:49] <mohadib> arg , i eclipse locked up..
[23:23:10] *** npmccallum-work has quit IRC
[23:25:35] <dvoss> Nice shortcut.
[23:26:09] <slava> its stupid
[23:27:51] *** RProgrammer has left ##java
[23:29:43] *** fforw has joined ##java
[23:32:02] *** Sancezz has quit IRC
[23:32:32] *** dewaard has quit IRC
[23:34:12] *** Nippa has quit IRC
[23:35:35] *** Chaos_Theory has joined ##java
[23:36:43] *** solus has joined ##java
[23:36:55] <dvoss> Is there a naming convention for a method that will search for some object in a list, or return a new one if it isn't found?
[23:37:50] *** Calcifer has joined ##java
[23:37:56] *** Dekkard has joined ##java
[23:38:20] <Dekkard> cant remember who helped me before..
[23:38:26] <Dekkard> but i fingered it out
[23:38:48] <Dekkard> to do fakeroot make-jpackage.. you need to do it in you home directory
[23:39:03] <Dekkard> fakeroot dont give yer write privvies
[23:39:18] <fforw> dvoss: sounds like a factory method with cache, or not?
[23:39:20] *** Tartaros has quit IRC
[23:39:35] <Dekkard> uh...?
[23:39:50] <Dekkard> so i made the blackdown...deb..
[23:39:55] <Dekkard> installed it..
[23:40:11] <Dekkard> than i had a new solution under the java reconfig menu..
[23:40:22] <Dekkard> chose blackdown.. and bingo..jircii works
[23:40:44] <Dekkard> but i wanted to thank whoever helped me for their patience
[23:41:17] *** bpalmer has quit IRC
[23:41:18] <Dekkard> and all i can say is gcj and gij suck
[23:41:28] <Dekkard> what a royal pain
[23:41:28] *** bcml has quit IRC
[23:42:33] *** Parisi has joined ##java
[23:43:10] *** ramza3 has joined ##java
[23:44:38] *** Frederick has quit IRC
[23:45:38] *** Chaos_Theory has quit IRC
[23:45:41] *** Blackwell has joined ##java
[23:52:35] *** tvn has quit IRC
[23:55:22] *** tvn has joined ##java
[23:56:38] *** kasper has joined ##java
[23:57:47] *** Tahlon has joined ##java
[23:58:43] *** jmalicki has quit IRC
[23:59:51] *** bright has quit IRC

   October 14, 2005  
< | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | >