[00:00:14] <slava> pr3d4t0r: you need to start work on your GUI toolkit soon.
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[00:01:07] <cybereal> hey slava, wtf is the "->" operator in o'caml?
[00:01:19] <slava> in what context?
[00:01:25] <slava> type specifications, or expressions?
[00:01:33] <slava> it has two meanings
[00:01:42] <cybereal> tell me both because I don't know either way
[00:01:52] <cybereal> I've been reading the docs and it never actually explains it directly
[00:01:55] <slava> well, in a type specification, it just means 'function'
[00:02:09] <slava> eg, integer -> real is the type of a function that takes an integer and returns a real
[00:02:16] <cybereal> I see
[00:02:57] <slava> list 'a -> (('a -> 'b) -> list 'b) is the type of a function of two arguments, one of which is a function
[00:03:20] <slava> it takes a list with elements of parametric type 'a, and outputs a list of elements of parametric type 'b
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[00:03:39] <slava> and it takes a function from a to b
[00:04:11] <snooplsm> FUCKING FUCKER.
[00:04:11] <cybereal> ok that makes sense
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[00:04:35] <pr3d4t0r> snooplsm: ...
[00:04:43] <pr3d4t0r> snooplsm: Chill, dude.  What's wrong?
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[00:05:01] <cybereal> slava: it seems it's almost always in the context of type definitions, but, what about in expressions?
[00:05:05] <snooplsm> my grade.
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[00:05:13] <pr3d4t0r> snooplsm: Ah.
[00:05:15] <slava> cybereal: i believe it is something for mutable references
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[00:05:24] <slava> cybereal: (!x).y is the same as x->y
[00:05:25] <cristo1701> howdy, does anybody have experience writing j233 connectors like what jca does for jdbc for legacy systems?
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[00:05:28] <snooplsm> this dude gave us 80 mins for 7 questions each with 4 parts.
[00:05:33] <snooplsm> not enough time for me since i'm retarded
[00:05:38] <slava> cybereal: in ocaml, variables are immutable
[00:05:51] <slava> cybereal: if you want a variable you can change (loop index or something) you store a special 'ref' object in the variable
[00:05:56] <slava> cybereal: the ref can be read or written
[00:06:36] <cybereal> slava: yeah I saw that, except what about in objects where you declare something like val mutable x : int  ?
[00:07:09] <slava> cybereal: a ref is just an object with one slot + syntax sugar to read/write that slot
[00:07:29] <slava> cybereal: so the object system is the 'escape' to imperitive code with side-effects
[00:08:07] <cybereal> slava: I see
[00:08:12] <cybereal> that makes sense
[00:08:19] <slava> by isolating side effects you end up with more reusable and easy to test code
[00:08:45] <slava> however it still allows them, because some things are naturally done with OOP such as GUIs, and its clumsy to do them in a purely functional way
[00:08:49] <cybereal> these docs are very counterintuitive to my normal learning process, they seem to be written conceptually backwards, requiring much inferrence along the way, but it's coming... slowly
[00:08:51] <slava> although haskell gets pretty far...
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[00:09:17] <slava> cybereal: get an introductory book on ML, then leaern the Ocaml specific-features
[00:09:52] <cristo1701> any j2ee guys in here?
[00:10:34] <cybereal> slava: I might just do that, though I think I may have enough understanding by now to write some HelloWorld++'s
[00:11:00] <dvoss> I want to process a JTextField's data when the user tabs out of it. Is there a way to make the tab key send an action event, or is there another way?
[00:11:04] <cybereal> The only thing that's causing me confusion is notation
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[00:11:50] <slava> cybereal: you'll get used to the syntax quickly, it is very simple and logical
[00:12:00] <cristo1701> any recommendations for creating connection pools inside an java application server to access legacy systems?
[00:12:02] <slava> compared to, say, C++ or ruby
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[00:14:34] * mohadib gives some left over man love to slava
[00:14:48] <dvoss> eew
[00:15:25] <mohadib> what ... i cant hug slava
[00:15:27] <mohadib> sicko
[00:16:10] * jwormy hugs slava
[00:16:26] <slava> so many men are making a pass at me tonight
[00:16:33] <slava> first pr3d4t0r, then mohadib, now jwormy ...
[00:16:49] <jwormy> its that canadian man meat
[00:17:00] <meeper> dammit
[00:17:01] <jwormy> slava, i saw a canadian bounce off a treee this weekend..
[00:17:08] <jwormy> slava, i was like 'i bet that hurt, eh?'
[00:17:09] <dvoss> Might have something to do with the sub tendancies implicit in your name. :)
[00:17:14] <meeper> is the DriverManager.getConnection object threadsafe or not?
[00:17:35] <cybereal> bah see, the docs just used the "and" keyword in a let expression for the first time, and it's in the middle of explaining type coercion with objects...
[00:17:37] <ramza3> jwormy: you know what DnB is ?
[00:17:39] * cybereal slaps ocaml's docs
[00:17:45] * pr3d4t0r humps slava
[00:17:48] <mohadib> haha
[00:17:51] <mohadib> ~do pr3d4t0r
[00:17:51] * javabot does pr3d4t0r
[00:17:55] <mohadib> a train
[00:17:59] <slava> cybereal: the and keyword is the logical and operator
[00:18:01] <pr3d4t0r> ~bomb mohadib
[00:18:02] * javabot drops a humongous exploding turd on mohadib
[00:18:13] <slava> cybereal: its short-circuiting, like java's && but not like &
[00:18:14] <mohadib>  ~bomb pr3d4t0r
[00:18:20] <cybereal> slava: not from what I can see, it appears to be assigning one variable, then another
[00:18:21] <mohadib> hmm , javabit must be broken
[00:18:22] <ramza3> drum and bass, diesel boy will be in north carolina this month, I think Charolette, I am going up there
[00:18:23] <pr3d4t0r> ~bomb cybereal
[00:18:23] * javabot drops a humongous exploding turd on cybereal
[00:18:29] <mohadib>  ~bomb pr3d4t0r
[00:18:29] <pr3d4t0r> ~bomb slava
[00:18:30] * javabot drops a humongous exploding turd on slava
[00:18:31] <mohadib> !@#\
[00:18:35] <jwormy> ramza3, you are coming to charlotte?
[00:18:49] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: it sdoesnt work when i try to bomb you :\
[00:18:49] <ramza3> jwormy: for 3 hours
[00:18:51] <mohadib>  ~bomb pr3d4t0r
[00:18:56] <cybereal> slava: or is it only doing the second one if the first one is successful or something?
[00:18:59] <jwormy> ramza3, dude, beers on me in charlotte
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[00:19:13] <cybereal> #let colored_point_to_point cp = (cp : colored_point :> point);;
[00:19:13] <cybereal> val colored_point_to_point : colored_point -> point = <fun>
[00:19:20] <cybereal> err damn wrong lines
[00:19:21] <slava> cybereal: if the first one returns true, it does the second one
[00:19:21] <ramza3> jwormy: you know where Spiro is?  that is where I am going
[00:19:46] <cybereal> #let p = new point 3 and q = new colored_point 4 "blue";;
[00:20:04] <cybereal> the output from the interactive loop then has two lines, one for assigning p, one for assigning q
[00:20:16] <jwormy> ramza3, never heard of it
[00:20:46] <ramza3> jwormy: oops this is it, http://spins.us/calendar/event_details.asp?eventid=5814
[00:21:36] <jwormy> ramza3, eh, scorpios is a gay club, you know that right?
[00:21:57] <ramza3> jwormy: no I did not know that, trips off
[00:21:57] <slava> jwormy: its your favorite club?
[00:22:04] <jwormy> ramza3, seriously it is...
[00:22:05] <mohadib> lol
[00:22:12] <jwormy> slava, no i have never eve nseen it but i know what it is
[00:22:18] <mohadib> jwormy: thats super!
[00:22:27] <cybereal> slava: in that last expression I pasted, what would have to happen for q not to be defined?
[00:22:28] <jwormy> ramza3, seriously, its a gay club..
[00:22:29] <ramza3> jwormy: hmm is that on the books
[00:22:29] <mohadib> jwormy: a friend told you? lol
[00:23:03] <dvoss> Anybody know how to do something when the user tabs out of a JTextField?
[00:23:06] <ramza3> jwormy: well, scratch that
[00:23:10] <jwormy> mohadib, no one of my chick friends used to go on sunday nights to watch teh drag queen competitions, supposidly funny as fuck
[00:23:48] <mohadib> hehe
[00:23:50] <jwormy> ramza3, but uhh, yes.. if i were you i wouldn't go..
[00:23:52] <mohadib> sounds funny
[00:24:03] <jwormy> ramza3, and no, i won't be coming to scorpios to meet you if you do go..
[00:24:37] <pr3d4t0r> Hrm... interesting...
[00:24:48] <pr3d4t0r> Java SE chief engineer talking now.
[00:24:51] <pr3d4t0r> Nice.
[00:25:01] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: where
[00:25:02] <mohadib> ?
[00:25:18] <pr3d4t0r> Tiger - Mustang - Dolphin.
[00:25:22] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: At work.
[00:25:43] <mohadib> nice
[00:26:04] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Yeah.  Sun descended upon us with a vengeance.  No marketroids in sight.  Clued people.  It's nice.
[00:26:13] <mohadib> wow
[00:26:15] <mohadib> nice
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[00:26:39] <ramza3> jwormy: I guess you are right; http://www.scorpios.com/  (see the META tags) ... not that there is anything wrong with it, just not my crowd; especially for a 4 hour trip
[00:26:59] <jwormy> ramza3, eh i'd just rather not even go to that website..
[00:27:05] <ramza3> hehe
[00:27:05] <jwormy> ramza3, but eh, goodluck wit that..
[00:27:29] <ramza3> slava's going
[00:27:42] <ramza3> him and moh
[00:27:46] <mohadib> wow what a ugly webpage
[00:27:50] <mohadib> lol
[00:27:55] <mohadib> im not going
[00:28:29] <cybereal> strange association with Mac classic and a gay club
[00:28:36] <cybereal> well maybe it's not so strange...
[00:28:56] <mohadib> lol
[00:28:56] <jwormy> they should be going to like..  treamont that would be cool
[00:29:03] <jwormy> tremont is a fun crowd
[00:29:15] <jwormy> but uh.. scorpios?  ya... not for jwormy
[00:29:27] <mohadib> dvoss: add a focuslistener to the textfield
[00:30:35] <pr3d4t0r> 119 million Java 5 SDK downloads so far :)
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[00:32:03] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: oops, must've left wget on at home in a loop :)
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[00:34:19] <cybereal> cool!
[00:34:35] <ainaker> hey, is there somebody using a 64bits vm?
[00:34:39] <ainaker> i think i found a bug
[00:34:43] <cybereal> ainaker: bug?
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[00:35:05] <ainaker> yes, with jformattedfield of swing
[00:35:46] <pr3d4t0r> ainaker: Describe the bug.  I'm sitting across from the J2SE chief architect right now.  I'll ask him :)
[00:36:05] <aktinos> hi ainaker :)
[00:36:14] <ainaker> hey aktinos
[00:36:18] <ainaker> pr3d4t0r: try this code: http://phpfi.com/82124
[00:36:21] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: i got a good one for
[00:36:44] <ainaker> when jformattedfield get focus, it appears to be filled by spaces or so
[00:36:53] <mohadib> JavaWebStart explodes when using cookies in 1.5 .. sometimes it will grab random information from another cookie and put it in the cookie you are using
[00:37:00] <mohadib> i have seen this with two apps
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[00:37:05] <ainaker> that only happens to me in a 64 bits vm, thats cause im looking for ppl using a 64bits vm
[00:37:08] <mohadib> web start and applets
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[00:37:25] <jwormy> pr3d4t0r, i am more interested in the down to earth questions, like do those guys caht on IRC?
[00:37:26] <pr3d4t0r> ainaker: I'll ask when he's done talking.
[00:37:30] <pr3d4t0r> In about 20 minutes.
[00:37:39] <nirvdrum> yo
[00:37:41] <ainaker> pr3d4t0r: ill be waiting, thank you
[00:37:48] <jwormy> pr3d4t0r, and do they like, chill and answer questions incognito or are they like 'hey i'm the chief arcitect'
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[00:37:58] <kaylee> so what exactly are the differences between Java SE and EE?
[00:38:03] <ainaker> btw, if somebody with a 64 bits vm can try that, i will be very glad
[00:38:12] <cybereal> kaylee: E count
[00:38:16] <ramza3> jwormy, there is a Sun doc guy that comes on, JDK6-Docs, has been on here a couple of times
[00:38:22] <kaylee> cybereal: lol
[00:38:38] <mohadib> heh
[00:39:04] <mohadib> EE has all the stupid bean crap or web services iirc
[00:39:09] <mohadib> for
[00:39:11] <cybereal> ramza3: I thought that was some n00b
[00:39:17] <cybereal> ramza3: guy seemed pretty dim
[00:39:19] <cybereal> dunno why
[00:39:24] <cybereal> I can't even remember what he was talking about
[00:39:27] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[00:39:33] <ramza3> cybereal, just a doc guy, I dont know if he writes code
[00:39:39] <cybereal> hm...
[00:39:45] <cybereal> yeah I guess it doesn't matter since I can't remember
[00:40:19] <kaylee> so if I've done a bit with SE, how far of a stretch is it to say I can do EE?
[00:40:40] <cybereal> kaylee: do you know what a Bean is?
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[00:41:08] <kaylee> cybereal: coffee, or like refried? :)
[00:41:13] <cybereal> har har
[00:41:26] <kaylee> just kidding...I think I have a little bit of an idea, but not um...a lot
[00:41:35] <kaylee> they didn't talk about EE much in school
[00:41:40] <cHaoTiCa> heh.  gimme a sec.  i have scrollback.  :)
[00:41:41] <cybereal> well same here, and I don't feel comfortable saying I know J2EE
[00:41:58] <cybereal> kaylee: the java is the same, it is just a set of interfaces and concepts and crap
[00:42:18] <talin> what's the easiest way to open a file called "example.txt" and then writing "hello world" in it?
[00:42:23] <kaylee> I didn't say comfortable saying you know it...but that you can do it
[00:42:33] <ramza3> kaylee: J2EE and J2SE is like night and day, J2SE = threading, swing ui ...J2EE = web, databases
[00:42:35] <kaylee> talin: check the Really Big Index
[00:42:55] <kaylee> ramza3: humm.
[00:42:55] <kaylee> poo
[00:43:18] <ramza3> kaylee: not to say one is more difficult, I am just saying they are different worlds
[00:43:28] <kaylee> ramza3: I understand
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[00:45:17] <ramza3> kaylee: if anything j2se world is more about algorithms and stuff, while j2ee is about dumb terminals to business apps
[00:45:25] <kaylee> haha
[00:45:53] <cHaoTiCa> the docs guy was talking about, of all things, the docs :)  he also praised javaws a few times
[00:46:07] <kaylee> I've always wondered, why don't they ever cover some of the different technologies that are actually needed for work while in school?
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[00:46:34] <cHaoTiCa> talin....heh.  echo "hello world" >example.txt :)
[00:46:46] <cybereal> cHaoTiCa: I must have a mixed up association with him or something
[00:46:50] <cHaoTiCa> doesn't get much simpler :)
[00:47:06] <cHaoTiCa> maybe
[00:47:37] <cHaoTiCa> i find i get a lot of people mixed up around here :)
[00:47:58] <ramza3> kaylee: you are better off learning the algorithms, data-structures as opposed to accessing data through a website; one has 50 years of history, the other is the trend of the times
[00:48:01] <cHaoTiCa> which is why i have the scrollback from hell...so i can sort that stuff out :)
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[00:48:33] <pr3d4t0r> OKi, question for all of you.
[00:48:55] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: c
[00:48:56] <pr3d4t0r> I'm going to publish the chapters for the Java 5 book I was writing that have been proofed and readied.
[00:49:16] <cHaoTiCa> ccl :)
[00:49:18] <kaylee> ramza3: good point...but at my school, they had "May Term", it was a 1 month class that covered only elective topics...that would have been a great place to do it
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[00:49:49] <pr3d4t0r> They cover:  generics, autoboxinb conversions, enum types, enhanced for statement, and static imports.
[00:49:57] <mohadib> nice
[00:50:13] <ramza3> kaylee: and then again some professors couldn't connect to a database if they had 100 oracle guys show them
[00:50:13] <pr3d4t0r> Would you guys like to see that in a. Word; b. PDF/Acrobat; c. HTML?
[00:50:21] <cHaoTiCa> html
[00:50:24] <mohadib> txt/html
[00:50:27] <tmh> PDF... PDF... PDF
[00:50:28] <kaylee> ramza3: haha
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[00:50:33] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: HTML!
[00:50:45] <ramza3> pdf
[00:50:46] <EcksEightySix> anything but Word! lol
[00:50:47] <cybereal> pdf sucks
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[00:50:48] <pr3d4t0r> Can you please justify your choice?
[00:50:49] <mohadib> yes
[00:50:51] <mohadib> and pdf
[00:50:53] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[00:50:55] <ramza3> pdf, simple download
[00:50:55] <EcksEightySix> OpenDocument even
[00:50:56] <kaylee> ramza3: actually one of the core, required classes was Unix and Databases...half the semester committed to each
[00:50:58] <tmh> Why not PDF & HTML
[00:51:00] <tmh> ?
[00:51:06] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: It's easier to browser through an HTML document than a PDF document.
[00:51:11] <cHaoTiCa> pr3d4t0r....everything reads html these days
[00:51:12] <Clackwell> pr3d4t0r: pdf for printing. html for browser/viewer choice when online reading.
[00:51:19] <mohadib> pdf reader does not work worth a crap with firefox :\
[00:51:26] <pr3d4t0r> Clackwell: I don't have time to maintain multiple versions.
[00:51:27] <cHaoTiCa> i don't print :)
[00:51:32] <pr3d4t0r> Hrm...
[00:51:34] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: html
[00:51:36] <mohadib> or txt
[00:51:39] <cHaoTiCa> so html is preferable imo
[00:51:43] <pr3d4t0r> Clackwell: How is Word's HTML export?
[00:51:45] <Clackwell> pr3d4t0r: you have one source and generate the pdf and html versions from that.
[00:51:49] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: not good
[00:51:51] <Clackwell> pr3d4t0r: better than nothing.
[00:51:53] <mohadib> OO is better
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[00:52:00] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Qualify "not good".
[00:52:06] <Clackwell> pr3d4t0r: ooo docbook?
[00:52:08] <cHaoTiCa> it works, but it adds a lot of ms,dsh crap
[00:52:13] <cHaoTiCa> ms'ish too
[00:52:13] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: it's barely html
[00:52:15] <EcksEightySix> Word -> html export is EWW omg.. aweful
[00:52:18] <mohadib> OO makes better quality (readable) thml
[00:52:20] <EcksEightySix> it's actually MSHTML
[00:52:21] <Clackwell> pr3d4t0r: also ooo has a pdf export, i seem to recall.
[00:52:33] <cybereal> indeed, OOo seems to be a good choice for your situation
[00:52:38] <cybereal> Clackwell: that it does
[00:52:40] <Clackwell> EcksEightySix: so what? as long as firefox and co. can view it good enough...
[00:52:41] <pr3d4t0r> Clackwell: I'm not going to install OOo or NeoOffice just for this ;)
[00:52:47] <kaylee> Clackwell: ugh, never export to pdf with ooo, always print to file, and convert the ps to pdf
[00:52:49] <mohadib> then txt
[00:52:56] <Clackwell> pr3d4t0r: you should ooo installed, you pimped it not too long ago!
[00:52:59] <EcksEightySix> Clackwell: point taken. ;)
[00:53:20] <Clackwell> +have
[00:53:21] <shingoki> kaylee, what is wrong woth pfd export?
[00:53:43] <kaylee> shingoki: it likes to bork things, particularly on Linux systems when it doesn't like the fonts too much
[00:53:45] <Clackwell> pr3d4t0r: everyone seems to agree to disagree. well, this is java land, of course it is so.
[00:53:51] <kaylee> it does weird things sometimes
[00:53:55] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[00:54:04] <Clackwell> kaylee: so does word, still pred is using it! ;)
[00:54:04] <pr3d4t0r> Clackwell: It looks like HTML will be the way to go.
[00:54:10] <cHaoTiCa> html or rtf, imo :)
[00:54:16] <shingoki> kaylee, I hadn't seen that, I'll have to look out for it
[00:54:19] <mohadib> or just txt . like a rfc
[00:54:22] <pr3d4t0r> Clackwell: Let me see what it looks like from Word.
[00:54:25] <EcksEightySix> I'd go with an OpenDocument(OOo 2.0 is sweet) as master and export it as either PDF or HTML
[00:54:29] <mohadib> gross
[00:54:33] <Clackwell> pr3d4t0r: yeah, i am perfectly okay with that. with raised interest you can still migrate back and forth.
[00:54:35] <kaylee> shingoki: eh, for all I know it's been fixed...I just don't trust it
[00:54:36] <cHaoTiCa> txt isn't as easily indexed
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[00:54:48] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Not .txt -- there are too many charts.  Unless you're willing to draw the diagrams with ASCII characters.
[00:54:49] <mohadib> but anything can read ut
[00:54:54] <mohadib> :p
[00:55:02] * mohadib nods
[00:55:08] <kaylee> pr3d4t0r: I believe gimp has an image to ascii converter
[00:55:10] <kaylee> lol
[00:55:13] <EcksEightySix> lol
[00:55:16] <amphiboid> it's hard to have one source (say, DocBook) and be able to generate *good* outputs in the format that need some kind of fixed layouts (eg, PDF).  Most publishing company (even the ones printing huge dictionaries made with custom TeX) have to manually "correct" the output.
[00:55:16] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[00:55:16] <EcksEightySix> ahaha
[00:55:19] <Clackwell> bbl
[00:55:23] <pr3d4t0r> kaylee: I don't have Gimp -- do you have it installed?
[00:55:25] <ramza3> pr3d4t0r, what format do you have to submit it in? or does it matter
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[00:55:29] <lindude> anyone know when was ejb 2.0 released
[00:55:33] <pr3d4t0r> ramza3: It's for my web site.
[00:55:43] <ramza3> pr3d4t0r, ah
[00:55:44] <pr3d4t0r> ramza3: I'm going to make the chapters available for ##java use.
[00:55:47] <shingoki> pr3d4t0r, I would vote for nice XHTML/CSS personally
[00:55:57] <kaylee> pr3d4t0r: yeah, but because of my system being plagued with Mandrake, it's an OLD ass version
[00:56:05] <shingoki> pr3d4t0r, PDF if that is too much trouble, obviously not Word ;)
[00:56:18] <pr3d4t0r> shingoki: It's not going to happen.
[00:56:22] <EcksEightySix> Mandrake? phew! it's Mandriva (or something) nowawayds ;)
[00:56:25] <shingoki> pr3d4t0r, which bit?
[00:56:26] <EcksEightySix> nowadays*
[00:56:29] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[00:56:32] <kaylee> EcksEightySix: not when it's an old version :)
[00:56:37] <pr3d4t0r> shingoki: The files were written in Word per the publisher's request.
[00:56:45] <kaylee> EcksEightySix: this poor desktop has been neglected
[00:56:49] <pr3d4t0r> shingoki: So whatever I generate comes from Word since the master document is in that format.
[00:56:55] <shingoki> pr3d4t0r, ah, then just import into OOO and export PDF, or PDF straight from Word
[00:57:01] <EcksEightySix> kaylee: yea ;-) lol!
[00:57:02] <shingoki> get the PDF printer for Word maybe?
[00:57:10] <pr3d4t0r> shingoki: I can do PDF fine from Word (I'm on OS X).
[00:57:14] <EcksEightySix> kaylee: new Ubuntu release tomorrow. ;) reformat your system!
[00:57:23] <pr3d4t0r> shingoki: The touchy part is HTML/CSS.
[00:57:28] <kaylee> EcksEightySix: actually, gentoo has become my friend
[00:57:30] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[00:57:32] <kaylee> I was really happy with it
[00:57:34] <shingoki> pr3d4t0r, that would be the least bad then :) Maybe someone kindly will do the conversion?
[00:57:39] <EcksEightySix> kaylee: that too! :D
[00:57:40] <kaylee> so this system will get an upgrade soon
[00:57:40] <shingoki> I mean conversion to html
[00:57:41] <pr3d4t0r> shingoki: I'm not willing to put a lot of time just screwing with the text to make it HTML/CSS pretty.
[00:57:54] <pr3d4t0r> shingoki: That'd be nice.
[00:58:01] <pr3d4t0r> shingoki: Let me see what that looks like.
[00:58:14] <cybereal> talin: did you get your answer?
[00:58:16] <cybereal> ~pastebin
[00:58:16] <javabot> Paste your code, preferably a test case, any errors, and any other relevant information into the pastebin and tell us the URL: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin
[00:58:22] <EcksEightySix> kaylee: I didn't like gentoo... well not quite "didn't like it" it was more: yea I tinkered with my linux intalls back in the 90s... now I just want something that works and let me code! :D
[00:58:32] <shingoki> pr3d4t0r, PDF should look identical to the printed original, hopefully
[00:58:35] <cHaoTiCa> as long as the h* tags and such are right, i don't care whether it's styled or anything :)
[00:59:09] <shingoki> EcksEightySix, ubuntu r0xx0rs, I didn't know breezy was tomorrow, that is great
[00:59:13] <Drone> View cybereal's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8311
[00:59:17] <cybereal> that's for talin
[00:59:29] <dvoss> Here's a noob question. Class B extends class A. How does class C call class A's implementation of a method? Specifically, toString().
[00:59:36] <EcksEightySix> shingoki: ohh yea!! :D
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[00:59:39] <shingoki> pr3d4t0r, btw its nice of you to make it available :)
[01:00:27] <cHaoTiCa> dvoss...it shouldn't.  :)  B should decide whether A's or B's toString() is more suitable
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[01:00:47] <dvoss> what I figured. thx
[01:00:48] <shingoki> dvoss, does C extend A ?
[01:00:52] <dvoss> negative
[01:01:03] <amphiboid> It's crazy to ask for the file in Word format.  The typesetter will use Quark or InDesign anyway and the book *will* end up in either PostScript or PDF after pre-press.   :-/    Here comes a little story...
[01:01:07] <EcksEightySix> C estends B?
[01:01:11] <EcksEightySix> can't in java
[01:01:20] <EcksEightySix> multiple inheritance..?
[01:01:34] <shingoki> EcksEightySix, C extends B extends A is possible
[01:01:45] <shingoki> sorry I got it wrong
[01:01:46] <EcksEightySix> but can't access A's members, right?
[01:01:47] <cybereal> EcksEightySix: that's not multiple inheritence
[01:01:50] <EcksEightySix> but C can't*
[01:01:52] <cHaoTiCa> EcksEightySix....i gather that C is unrelated to a and b
[01:02:00] <dvoss> correct
[01:02:00] <cHaoTiCa> err, A and B
[01:02:10] <EcksEightySix> :)
[01:02:11] <cybereal> EcksEightySix: C inherits whatever B has, so if B hasn't overridden A's methods then C obviously gets those
[01:02:12] <pr3d4t0r> He, he, he...
[01:02:28] <pr3d4t0r> It looks like Microsoft's "HTML" will crash Firefox...
[01:02:29] <vinse> grats everyone on making that like thrice as complex as necessary!
[01:02:30] <cybereal> I wonder if you can do super.super :)
[01:02:36] <shingoki> dvoss, you will get whatever B has, overridden or not, otherwise there would be no point in overriding the method
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[01:02:43] <vinse> cybereal: you cant
[01:02:49] <shingoki> I mean... oh hell that wasn't very clear
[01:02:51] <EcksEightySix> cybereal: ok so C can't directly access A's members (if C extends B which extends A) right?
[01:03:03] <cybereal> EcksEightySix: no
[01:03:11] <EcksEightySix> ahah those class name aren't very explicit
[01:03:12] <amphiboid> I typeset a book using LaTeX for an editor in the 90s, the guys insisted on *flashing* a printed output at 600x600 dpi saying that: LaTeX was incompatible.  Later I learned that, of course, the "printing company" (?) was using PostScript, so the dvi to .ps conversion would have been perfect.   Editors are clueless regarding pre-press. (and most typesetters are clueless regarding computing)
[01:03:41] <vinse> EcksEightySix: if C extends B extends A then C can access anything in A that is not private or overriden in B
[01:03:57] <vinse> overridden?
[01:04:20] <EcksEightySix> ohh hrmm never tried that. cool. that's not multiple inheritance?
[01:04:22] <vinse> spelling aside, that's the answer
[01:04:22] <EcksEightySix> what is then?
[01:04:33] <pr3d4t0r> shingoki: Thanks.
[01:04:35] <cybereal> EcksEightySix: just inheritence
[01:04:48] <vinse> multiple inheritance is C extends A and B, where A and B are unrelated
[01:04:48] <cHaoTiCa> EcksEightySix.... nothing in java :)
[01:04:51] <pr3d4t0r> OKi, next question:  how about PDF with links within the document for quick navigation?
[01:04:56] <EcksEightySix> sweet! I thought it was more restrictive... for some reason.
[01:05:07] * EcksEightySix smacks his head
[01:05:12] <cHaoTiCa> the closest thing java has to multiple inheritance is interfaces
[01:05:23] <EcksEightySix> gotcha
[01:05:45] <cybereal> Which is fine, I feel like multiple inheritence does little more than confuse design... obviously you're entitled to your own opinion
[01:05:59] <cHaoTiCa> i agree :)
[01:06:00] <EcksEightySix> I agree, actually.
[01:06:01] <amphiboid> pr3d4t0r: I'd go with PDF with links...  Best compromise.
[01:06:38] <cybereal> The only interesting use of multiple inheritence I've seen is with the second, third, etc. classes being designed specifically as "mixins" to enhance the first class
[01:06:52] <EcksEightySix> interesting
[01:07:02] <cybereal> so the resulting class has some desired functionality without even needing to write much code... but it's not like you can't do that in other ways, i.e. encapsulation
[01:07:09] <pr3d4t0r> amphiboid: Yeah, it's looking that way.  There's some weird embedded XML shit in the Word-to-HTML that almost crashes Firefox.
[01:07:36] <shingoki> pr3d4t0r, PDF with links would be great
[01:07:46] <pr3d4t0r> shingoki: OKi, I'll do that :)
[01:07:49] <cybereal> I guess PDF with links isn't quite so bad
[01:07:51] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[01:08:00] <shingoki> pr3d4t0r, excellent :)
[01:08:00] <EcksEightySix> nice compromise :)
[01:08:05] <cHaoTiCa> will gs read pdf?
[01:08:19] <pr3d4t0r> EcksEightySix: I have Acrobat 7.0 Pro here -- might as well :)
[01:08:23] <shingoki> word HTML export is awful
[01:08:25] <pr3d4t0r> cHaoTiCa: Yes.
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[01:08:31] <cybereal> cHaoTiCa: what platform are you on?
[01:08:32] <EcksEightySix> pr3d4t0r: hel yea! :P ehehe
[01:08:41] <kaylee> cHaoTiCa: what's gs?
[01:08:43] <HangDude> hi all.. anybody know a java library to decompress .bz2 files in memory ?
[01:08:45] <EcksEightySix> ghostscript
[01:08:45] <cybereal> ghost script
[01:08:51] <kaylee> oh
[01:08:55] <cHaoTiCa> xp, but i've mutted it :)
[01:08:59] <EcksEightySix> woops time to run.
[01:09:02] <EcksEightySix> laters.
[01:09:02] <kaylee> that's what I thought, but I had to check
[01:09:13] <cybereal> HangDude: first response toa  google search for "bzip2 java"
[01:09:17] <cybereal> HangDude: don't be so lazy
[01:09:27] <HangDude> as if i hadn't done that
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[01:09:41] <amphiboid> cHaoTiCa: on system having gs, you have pdftops / pdf2ps etc. utils usually, so you can easily convert from PDF to PostScript.
[01:09:44] <shingoki> cybereal, the problem is multiple concrete inheritance, of actual code, rather than multiple inheritance of interfaces. But the code "inheritance" can be done easily via delegation, in an IDE :) In other languages you can get the same effect with less horrible delegate methods
[01:09:48] <cybereal> HangDude: obviously you haven't since the first response is what you want
[01:10:08] <kaylee> UGH, this screen is so SMALL
[01:10:13] <cHaoTiCa> amphiboid...i'm aware.  but i don't use ps much.  :)
[01:10:27] <cybereal> cHaoTiCa: what do you mean you "mutted" it?
[01:10:30] <HangDude> hmm i did bz2 java at least
[01:10:30] <shingoki> cybereal, also although no one ever agrees with me, concrete inheritance can be done safely given some very stringent restrictions on the superclass, but the problem there is that you lose the ability to "inherit" from multiple classes, which is easy with delegation
[01:10:31] <ramza3> HangDude: you can try commons-vfs ; but I just tried it other day and it is buggy
[01:10:35] <Mc_Fly> Why does this output 0.0?  double t; t = 5000 / 8000; System.err.println("t " + t);   ?
[01:10:44] <pr3d4t0r> OKi, so the wrap-up:  Each chapter will be available as a separate PDF file.  Also (for the masochists) as a read-only Word file.  Each PDF file will include links to sections of the document, listings, and graphics.  Anything I'm forgetting?
[01:10:49] <cybereal> HangDude: bz2 is the common extension, bzip2 is the compression method, big difference
[01:10:57] * HangDude apologies
[01:11:18] <cybereal> shingoki: I don't like inheritence
[01:11:20] <cHaoTiCa> i mean, it's got cygwin + gs fr win32 + gvim for win32 + a bunch of other stuff :)
[01:11:42] <vinse> Mc_Fly: because 5000 and 8000 are integers ... try 5000 / 8000.0
[01:11:46] <shingoki> cybereal, concrete inheritance can be bad, yes. Delegates are much better
[01:11:53] <cHaoTiCa> i can type 'ls' from a cmd prompt, and it'll work :)
[01:12:15] <cybereal> shingoki: I don't feel quite so evangelistic aboutconcrete classes always being final but I think it's a decent starting point for design concepts in regards to objects
[01:12:25] <Mc_Fly> vinse: 5000 does not need to be changed?
[01:12:30] <cybereal> cHaoTiCa: so you can still use adobe reader
[01:12:42] <cybereal> cHaoTiCa: I don't think gs will do links
[01:12:45] <vinse> Mc_Fly: as long as one of them is changed ... changing either or both will work
[01:12:58] <cHaoTiCa> Mc_Fly....as long as one of the numbers is a double, the other will be automatically turned into one too
[01:13:06] <shingoki> cybereal, yup, I use abstract classes, or I used to, but only with strict limits on what was permitted in the abstract class. But the only point was to avoid typing, which Eclipse can do for me anyway :)
[01:13:07] <cHaoTiCa> heh
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[01:13:24] <cybereal> shingoki: the real problem isn't for a single developer over one project
[01:13:25] <Mc_Fly> vinse cHaoTiCa: Thanks, trying it out now :-)
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[01:13:39] <cybereal> shingoki: the real problem is for multiples of developers in a codel ibrary used across 20 projects
[01:13:46] <shingoki> cybereal, yes if you have people you don't really trust, just make everything final :)
[01:13:50] <cHaoTiCa> i don't like adobe reader....it's too big and slow :)
[01:13:58] <cybereal> shingoki: when you provide all this concrete inheritence you end up with changes not considering the full picture
[01:14:02] <Mc_Fly> vinse cHaoTiCa: Worked! :-)
[01:14:21] <shingoki> cybereal, but they will mess things up anyway :) I guess reducing the scope for destroying stuff is still worthwhile though
[01:14:30] <pr3d4t0r> StAX looks nice...
[01:14:52] <cybereal> shingoki: I designed one library for us here that is completely done with interfaces and one single final class that acts as a hub for them all, then I implemented basic examples and let others implement the real classes.  It's really quite nice not to have to worry much about forgetting about how one class effects another.
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[01:15:27] <cybereal> shingoki: definitely worthwhile.  We have to put all new projects on hold now for like 6 mo. to stabilize all the last 2 years worth of crap that has been shoved into the library because of not designing defensively
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[01:16:47] <cybereal> cHaoTiCa: how can you say adobe reader is big and slow?  have you seen how much space gs takes up?  Besides, it's the nature of PDF's to be big and slow isn't it? :)
[01:16:59] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[01:17:30] <cHaoTiCa> gs does other stuff besides pdfs, though.  and it still runs faster than adobe :)
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[01:17:53] <cybereal> yeah but it also doesn't do all the stuff reader does
[01:18:17] <cHaoTiCa> what it doesn't do, i don't miss much :)
[01:18:18] <cybereal> including properly decoding newer format PDFs
[01:18:37] <amphiboid> on Linux Adobe Acrobat Reader can be made much faster by disabling all the dumb plugins.  (and my Adobe Acrobat Reader isn't allow to connect to the Internet: I don't like proprietary apps "phoning home").
[01:18:51] <pr3d4t0r> . o O
[01:18:58] <cybereal> I have no issues with reader outside of a browser
[01:19:03] <cHaoTiCa> how do you turn off the plugins?
[01:19:08] <cybereal> it's just when it is acting as a browser plugin that makes me pull out my hair
[01:19:21] <HangDude> KPdf is very nice these days
[01:19:24] <pr3d4t0r> File dir = new File("/"); long lFree = dir.getUsableSpace(); // very cool
[01:19:50] <amphiboid> cHaoTiCa: it's about moving stuff from one dir to another (or just trashing them)...   Google it for the exact manip :)
[01:20:21] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[01:20:24] <HangDude> grml the ftp site isn't open for anonymous anymore
[01:20:34] <HangDude> (for bzip2 for java )
[01:20:54] <rogue-kun{B}> pr3d4t0r: File dir = new File(File.pathSeparator);   <-- is better ;)
[01:21:07] <teeBoy> hi, im trying to understand someone elses code, and theres something i dont get. IDatabase is an interface
[01:21:13] <teeBoy> IDatabase[] fDatabases = new IDatabase[0];
[01:21:13] * pr3d4t0r smacks rogue-kun{B}
[01:21:19] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: Actually, it isn't.
[01:21:36] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: And my point is the getUsableSpace() API.  That's *nice*.  Coming in Mustang.
[01:21:50] <rogue-kun{B}> pr3d4t0r oh why isn't it better for it to work on more than unix?
[01:22:17] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: Because "/" is interpreted the same way in UNIX and Windows.
[01:22:30] <RedEar> has anyone used Excelsior JET before?
[01:22:35] <rogue-kun{B}> pr3d4t0r: and Mac? ad Solarais, and....
[01:22:37] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: Only CMD.EXE/COMMAND.COM/Windows dialogs care about the difference between "/" and "\\"
[01:22:50] <pr3d4t0r> rogue-kun{B}: Macs run UNIX.  Solaris is UNIX.
[01:23:08] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: I guess if you care about mac classic...
[01:23:10] <cybereal> :)
[01:23:11] <pr3d4t0r> . o O -- out of memory errors with stack traces :)
[01:23:15] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: Indeed.
[01:23:31] <cybereal> what about netware? that's a platform I hve to support, and I have no idea what the path seperator is
[01:23:40] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: It uses "/"
[01:23:45] <cybereal> well then, that's that
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[01:24:02] * RedEar is (how unfortunate) certfied CNE for Netware 4.11
[01:24:09] <cybereal> Seems that all java supported platforms that matter support / for path separators
[01:24:16] <rogue-kun{B}> still think it better for futire use reasons 8)
[01:24:16] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: There was some nonsense about volume names that I don't recall (haven't coded anything for Netware since 1994).
[01:24:29] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: But volumes were much like drives, if memory serves.
[01:24:38] <cybereal> rogue-kun{B}: you're right, but who thinks about the future? :)
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[01:24:56] <cybereal> I am going home now, I'm hungry, ciao.
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[01:25:19] <rogue-kun{B}> bai bai cybereal-san 8)
[01:25:44] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: May the Force be with you.
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[01:29:26] <Baloogan> ~swing
[01:29:26] <javabot> Swing is windowing toolkit for java.  Tutorials can be found at http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/
[01:30:52] <Baloogan> Argh @ actionlisteners
[01:31:10] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[01:31:42] <rogue-kun{B}> Baloogan: Implmented, objects on anonomays classes? ;)
[01:31:58] <rogue-kun{B}> s/on/or
[01:32:12] <Baloogan> anonomays ?
[01:32:24] <rogue-kun{B}> Anonymous Classes
[01:32:25] <MrPrimate> I wanto to get rid of the standard window title bar and make my own graphical version --  is it going to make the window dragging and things respond poorly ?
[01:32:33] <cHaoTiCa> heh.  just moved 41 plugins to the trash/ dir :)
[01:33:12] <rogue-kun{B}> as .addActionLitener(new Action Listners { /* class staff */ });
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[01:33:27] <MrPrimate> anyone know example of a Java app where they don't use the regular platform window title bar ?
[01:33:43] <Baloogan> rogue-kun{B}: Hm. I'm using private classes extending ActionListener
[01:33:47] <Baloogan> I'll use that.
[01:33:51] <Baloogan> That seems coolerierouslee
[01:33:54] <cHaoTiCa> swing's all java anyway, right?
[01:34:14] <rogue-kun{B}> Baloogan: ahh you making a Listner object 8)
[01:34:35] <cHaoTiCa> i assume that's one of the reasons sun pushes it so much :)
[01:34:40] <rogue-kun{B}> cHaoTiCa: it all light weight ...yes
[01:34:42] <Baloogan> rogue-kun{B}: Which is bettar/?
[01:35:31] <rogue-kun{B}> Baloogan: totaly depends on your dessign 8) I seen Anonymus Classes pushed more now, but use what works for you
[01:35:49] <cHaoTiCa> so handling your own title bar wouldn't slow things down....if the author knows java... :)
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[01:36:28] <MrPrimate> cHaoTiCa, but the title bar is normally drawn by the platform,
[01:36:35] <MrPrimate> cHaoTiCa, ecxept for the Java L&F, correct ?
[01:36:39] <cHaoTiCa> not in swing, it isn't
[01:36:44] <MrPrimate> cHaoTiCa, really?
[01:36:54] <Baloogan> rogue-kun{B}: ActionListener taskPerformer = new ActionListener() {
[01:36:54] <Baloogan>             public void actionPerformed(ActionEvent evt) {
[01:36:55] <Baloogan> ?
[01:36:55] <cHaoTiCa> java draws the title bar in swing
[01:36:58] <MrPrimate> cHaoTiCa, so how does swing know to make my gnome java app title bars look just like the other ones
[01:37:11] <rogue-kun{B}> cHaoTiCa: you hinting at MrPrimate extednting JWindow and overwrtiing the title bar stuff? 8)
[01:37:13] <MrPrimate> cHaoTiCa, if I change my gnome theme Java seems to be able to draw the new type of title bar now
[01:37:26] <cHaoTiCa> cause you're using awt, or there's a gnome l&f
[01:37:32] <MrPrimate> by title bar I mean the bar that has the title and the minimize, close, etc
[01:37:47] <MrPrimate> so you guys are saying I CAN replace the title bar with basically no performance loss
[01:37:55] <cHaoTiCa> on my system, swing apps look nothing like win32 apps
[01:38:05] <MrPrimate> cHaoTiCa, Java L&F?
[01:38:14] <MrPrimate> on my system, swing apps look like whatever theme I am using in gnome
[01:38:22] <MrPrimate> or Java L&F if I pick that one
[01:39:22] <rogue-kun{B}> Baloogan: ahhh yopur doing a combe, Listener Object, but the Object's class is being wrtten Anonoymuse Class style 8)
[01:39:36] <Baloogan> rogue-kun{B}: I don't know what you just said.
[01:39:51] <Baloogan> But it sounds cool. So I'll do it my way.
[01:39:52] <cHaoTiCa> the l&f determines what swing apps look like...the native window manager has little or nothing to do with it
[01:39:54] <joaopaulo> with swing, i have one JFrame and one JPanel, if i want to close the active window and open another, i should create a new JFrame and a new JPanel or should i do a redimension on the active JFrame and create a new JPanel ?
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[01:40:23] <MrPrimate> joaopaulo, usually create a new JFrame
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[01:50:23] <Baloogan> How do I make JButtons from taking up the entire JFrame?
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[01:51:25] <mohadib> Baloogan: fiddle with the layout manager
[01:51:25] <rogue-kun{B}> Baloogan make or keep?
[01:51:30] <mohadib> set sizes etc
[01:51:37] <Baloogan> I try setBounds on it
[01:51:38] <mohadib> rogue-kun{B}: lol
[01:51:47] <Baloogan> rogue-kun{B}: Make. :/
[01:51:53] <rogue-kun{B}> keep the from do it, shove them on a JPanel 8)
[01:51:54] <Baloogan> I don't like it.
[01:52:06] <Baloogan> Why can't I shove them on a JFrame?
[01:52:17] <mohadib> Baloogan: you can...the content pane anyway
[01:52:22] <Baloogan> Yeah.
[01:52:29] <Baloogan> But they dont like it.
[01:52:31] <Baloogan> :(
[01:52:35] <rogue-kun{B}> to Make them do it set Layout to new GridLayout(1,1)
[01:52:55] <mohadib> get the layout manager to GBL :)  and the set preferred and maximum size and use not weight and fill = none :)
[01:53:20] <mohadib> s/not/no
[01:54:19] <rogue-kun{B}> mohadib: the Contenplan is just a defualt panel any way ;)
[01:54:41] <mohadib> sure
[01:54:44] <Baloogan> I want to set the buttons position manually
[01:54:47] <Baloogan> With setBounds
[01:54:54] <mohadib> ok
[01:54:57] <Baloogan> How do I get them to accept my superiority?
[01:55:03] <rogue-kun{B}> ~tell Baloogan about AbsoluteLayout
[01:55:04] <Baloogan> Damn buttons.
[01:55:04] <javabot> Baloogan, Oh, c'mon, use other layouts, they're better, but if you insist: http://lavender.cime.net/~ricky/tmp/AbsoluteLayout.java
[01:55:10] <mohadib> well first you start by *being* suerior
[01:55:13] <mohadib> superior
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[01:55:43] <Baloogan> Argh. ok fine ..
[01:55:55] <Baloogan> How do I put buttons down the right side of the jframe?
[01:55:59] <mohadib> ~tell Baloogan about barbie
[01:55:59] <javabot> Baloogan, <barbie>math is hard!</barbie>
[01:55:59] <Baloogan> Evenly spaced out?
[01:56:06] <mohadib> heh
[01:56:13] <mohadib> ~cheeser++
[01:56:14] <javabot> cheeser has a karma level of 141, mohadib
[01:56:16] <Baloogan> ~tell baloogan about java channels which help people
[01:56:16] <javabot> baloogan, I guess the factoid 'genericity in java 1.4' might be appropriate:
[01:56:18] <javabot> baloogan, genericity in java 1.4 is The 1.4 jvm does not support genericity and the 1.5 javac does not produce 1.4-compatible bytecode from sources using genericity. However, there is an undocumented "-target jsr14" flag which combined with "-source 1.5" does what you need. Hopefully.
[01:57:22] <mohadib> Baloogan: why not use a layout mananger
[01:57:33] <mohadib> setBounds() is a lot of work and little payoff
[01:57:41] <Baloogan> mohadib: Ok. Tell me a layout manager which lays out my buttons on the right side of the screen?
[01:57:44] <rogue-kun{B}> Baloogan make a JPanel, use BoxLayout. but the button on that. then add that pane to the frams' West portion of the content plande
[01:57:45] <Baloogan> Please.
[01:57:51] <mohadib> ummm
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[01:58:22] <rogue-kun{B}> frame.getContentPane().add(panel, BorderLayout.WEST);
[01:58:31] <mohadib> well ... i use other objects to push shit around , i would put some object (jlabel) to the left and grow it :)
[01:58:34] <mohadib> good luck
[01:58:47] <Baloogan> rogue-kun{B}: Whats panel?
[01:58:48] <rogue-kun{B}> on Right side use EAST insead of West
[01:59:24] <teeBoy> its not possible to instantiate an interface but its possible to make an array of objects of an interface ?
[01:59:38] <ramza3> any weblogic gurus in the house
[01:59:41] <rogue-kun{B}> JPanel panel = new JPanel(new BoxLayout(Y_AXIS));
[01:59:57] <Baloogan> Ok thanks.
[02:00:24] <Baloogan> And I add the buttons to this panel?
[02:00:46] <rogue-kun{B}> yep
[02:01:02] <Baloogan> Y_AXIS cannot be found.
[02:02:35] <Baloogan> rogue-kun{B}: What is Y_AXIS... and where is it?
[02:02:36] <rogue-kun{B}> opps: new BoxLayout(frame, BoxLayout.Y_AXIS)
[02:02:39] <Baloogan> Ok
[02:02:52] <rogue-kun{B}> it is a Constant on the BoxLayout Class
[02:03:13] <rogue-kun{B}> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/javax/swing/BoxLayout.html
[02:04:52] <Drone> View Baloogan's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8312
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[02:05:02] <Baloogan> rogue-kun{B}: Could you checkout my pastebin?
[02:05:13] <rogue-kun{B}> looking
[02:05:13] <Baloogan> I'm getting a Exception in thread "main" java.awt.AWTError: BoxLayout can't be shared
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[02:06:37] <rogue-kun{B}> Baloogan: try changine "this" to "panel" line 021
[02:07:02] <Baloogan> add the panel to itsself?
[02:07:10] <Baloogan> this is my JFrame
[02:07:22] <rogue-kun{B}> Baloogan not adding the panel to it's own layout
[02:07:47] <rogue-kun{B}> JPanel panel = new JPanel (new BoxLayout(panel,BoxLayout.Y_AXIS));    the rest of the this remain the same
[02:08:18] <Baloogan> C:\Documents and Settings\Baloogan\XCom\src\xcom\MainScreen.java:20: variable panel might not have been initialized
[02:08:18] <Baloogan>         JPanel panel = new JPanel (new BoxLayout(panel,BoxLayout.Y_AXIS));
[02:08:52] * rogue-kun{B} checks his notes..
[02:10:48] <rogue-kun{B}> Baloogan try JPanel panel = new JPanel(); panel.setLayout(new BoxLayout(panel, BoxLayout.Y_AXIS));
[02:11:23] <Baloogan> WOOOOOO!
[02:11:24] <rogue-kun{B}> That should work [as i just grabed that fome working code,
[02:11:27] <Baloogan> It is teh works!
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[02:11:58] <Baloogan> rogue-kun{B}: Now how do I make all the buttons the same width?
[02:12:28] <rogue-kun{B}> .setSize on the buttons?
[02:12:55] <Baloogan> each one? :(
[02:13:00] <mohadib> setSize generally is only applied to frames
[02:13:02] <Baloogan> Not super automatic way?
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[02:13:50] <joaopaulo> netbeans says that JFrame.show() is deprecated, what should i use ?
[02:14:02] <Honk^away> joaopaulo: check the api
[02:15:19] <Baloogan> How do I make all of the buttons the same width?
[02:15:46] <rogue-kun{B}> Baloogan: not really, not something that will not take up more code the just .setSize(h,w) on each button
[02:15:57] <Baloogan> :(
[02:15:59] <mohadib> swing is very verbose
[02:16:29] <rogue-kun{B}> you could make sure the .setText() on all the buttons are the same size...
[02:16:47] <Baloogan> :/
[02:16:51] <cHaoTiCa> you could possibly use a GridLayout for the buttons :)
[02:17:02] <cHaoTiCa> that'll make them all the same size
[02:17:08] <rogue-kun{B}> or the .setIcon is the same size if you useing Icons instead...
[02:17:18] <Honk^away> Baloogan: try setpreferedsize or setminimumsize
[02:17:35] <Honk^away> one of 'em might work, depending on the layout you're using
[02:17:43] <rogue-kun{B}> cHaoTiCa: true, but that ugley then you have the issue of making a gap between them... 8)
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[02:19:50] <Baloogan> rogue-kun{B}: setSize doesn't work.
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[02:20:02] <rogue-kun{B}> Baloogan: if you want to see what cHaoTiCa ment chna the new BoxLayout (...) for new GridLayout(n,1) // where n= number of buttons
[02:20:15] <rogue-kun{B}> 19:17] <Honk^away> Baloogan: try setpreferedsize or setminimumsize
[02:20:18] <dvoss> mohadib: thx, adding the focus listeners worked.
[02:20:21] <Baloogan> okok
[02:20:25] <mohadib> dvoss: :)
[02:21:47] <rogue-kun{B}> mohadib: setSize(int,int) is part of Class Component
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[02:22:06] <Baloogan> LEET!
[02:22:11] <Baloogan> gridlayout is uber
[02:22:18] <mohadib> rogue-kun{B}: yes?
[02:22:34] <mohadib> rogue-kun{B}: i said it was not used for much of anything
[02:22:36] <stodge> If I have a String of "1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 1.0" what's the best way to split it into the four float values?
[02:22:39] <mohadib> the layout manager overrides it
[02:22:46] <rogue-kun{B}> BBL
[02:22:51] <mohadib> setSize is for no layout manager
[02:23:00] <mohadib> as is setBounds()
[02:23:08] <mohadib> lol
[02:23:16] <mohadib> er wrong window
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[02:24:26] <dvoss> Layout managers all suck. Just FYI.
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[02:25:35] <joaopaulo> matisse on netbeans is doing a great work like gui manager
[02:26:58] <mohadib> dvoss: GridbagLayout is great
[02:28:11] <Honk^away> boxlayout is pretty useful too ;)
[02:28:30] <pr3d4t0r> stodge: split()
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[02:32:05] <dvoss> What layout managers can't do, is relate its components to those managed by another layout manager. The only components that can be lined up are those on the edge of the layout manager, because you can relate layout managers to each other through their common container.
[02:32:47] <dvoss> The solution to this is to have a window-wide layout manager, but none of 'em can do the job.
[02:33:18] <ricky_clarkson> Make your own.
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[02:34:09] <dvoss> Of the SE layout managers, GridbagLayout comes closest to being whole-window-capable, from what I hear.
[02:34:47] <stodge> Thanks
[02:35:48] <pr3d4t0r> OKi.
[02:35:59] <ricky_clarkson> I made a layout manager which uses constraints to do all the layout.
[02:36:05] <dvoss> ricky_clarkson, well, I'm working on that at home (nick is |Agent). When I finish and unveil my creation, the entire Java app development community will bask in its glory.
[02:36:21] <dvoss> ricky_clarkson, which one is that?
[02:36:26] <Baloogan> rogue-kun{B}: You still in the mood to help me? Gridlayout is great... but how do I do things like http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~xcom/images/x1x7x6.jpg
[02:36:26] <ricky_clarkson> So you can mix and match.
[02:36:27] <Baloogan> ?
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[02:37:20] <Honk^away> Baloogan: you add a jlabel with a gridlayout to your gridbaglayout =)
[02:37:30] <ricky_clarkson> I call it ExtensibleLayout, and there's no vrersion online atm.
[02:37:36] <dvoss> ah
[02:37:42] <Baloogan> Honk^away: Can I add a JPanel to my JPanel?
[02:37:46] <Honk^away> why not?
[02:37:49] <stodge> Hmm how would I take "1.0" and turn it into a float?
[02:37:55] <dvoss> Sounds cool.
[02:38:01] <Honk^away> stodge: integer.parseint
[02:38:04] <Honk^away> urrh
[02:38:06] <Honk^away> float.parsefloat
[02:38:07] <ricky_clarkson> stodge: Float.parseFloat.
[02:38:08] <Honk^away> heh :)
[02:38:14] <Baloogan> stodge: 1.0f ?
[02:38:19] <ricky_clarkson> Honk^away: I know you from undernet or something, right?
[02:38:21] <stodge> Ah - I was reading the String class.
[02:38:32] <Honk^away> ricky_clarkson: i dont think so :)
[02:38:41] <Honk^away> qnet
[02:38:46] <ricky_clarkson> Right.
[02:38:49] <Honk^away> you've asked about api-bot recently :)
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[02:39:24] <ricky_clarkson> Yep.  So have you seen javabot in action?
[02:39:35] <Honk^away> not much :)
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[02:39:48] <Honk^away> it's barely used in here
[02:40:02] <ricky_clarkson> This is the worst time of day.
[02:40:17] <Honk^away> i've been here for a week i think ;)
[02:40:31] <Honk^away> ~javadoc float.parsefloat
[02:40:31] <javabot> I don't know of any documentation for float.parsefloat
[02:40:34] <Honk^away> :P
[02:40:37] <ricky_clarkson> The Europeans are asleep, the Americans are drunk and the Australians are, well, on the dunny.
[02:40:43] <Honk^away> stupid bod ;)
[02:40:48] <ricky_clarkson> ~javadoc Float.parseFloat(*)
[02:40:49] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, please see java.lang.Float.parseFloat(java.lang.String): http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Float.html#parseFloat(java.lang.String)
[02:41:04] <Honk^away> <Honk> !api float.parsefloat
[02:41:04] <Honk^away> api-bot http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Float.html#parseFloat(java.lang.String)
[02:41:13] <Honk^away> :)
[02:41:32] <ricky_clarkson> !api StringBuilder
[02:42:00] <ricky_clarkson> Ah, it works.
[02:42:14] <Honk^away> it sure does :)
[02:42:26] <ricky_clarkson> Tbh, our users don't struggle with the syntax, but yeah, it could be altered.
[02:42:41] <Honk^away> oh btw.. api-bot answers queries too ;)
[02:42:45] <Honk^away> no need to spam the channel =)
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[02:43:34] <ricky_clarkson> Honk^away: After you pointed out the two-arg version of Class.forName, it should be pretty easy to sort javabot out.
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[02:44:32] <GetAGrip> hello all
[02:44:36] <Honk^away> Class.forName wont work for string though ;)
[02:44:49] <Honk^away> or float.parsefloat for that ;)
[02:44:51] <ricky_clarkson> No, but we can (and do) generate a list of class names easily.
[02:45:00] <Honk^away> =D
[02:45:03] <Baloogan> Can I panel.add(JButton lol = new JButton ("HAX")); ?
[02:45:10] <GetAGrip> what do i return from a catch block if my exception is in a member function?
[02:45:16] <Honk^away> Baloogan: try if that compiles
[02:45:16] <ricky_clarkson> But we also generate a list of method names, using crazy javadoc stuff.
[02:45:36] <Honk^away> ricky_clarkson: i'm not quite sure, but i think api-bot uses the apidocs as well
[02:45:52] <Honk^away> seems to be the easies way if you ask me ;)
[02:46:03] <Honk^away> just some html parsing with regexp :)
[02:46:11] <ricky_clarkson> Javabot doesn't use the api docs.
[02:46:21] <Honk^away> <ricky_clarkson> But we also generate a list of method names, using crazy javadoc stuff.
[02:46:23] <ricky_clarkson> It generates XML using a custom doclet.
[02:46:25] <Honk^away> javadoc? ;)
[02:46:44] <ricky_clarkson> Yes, it runs the javadoc command to generate that XML.
[02:47:32] <GetAGrip> hello?
[02:47:35] <Honk^away> oh :)
[02:47:49] <Honk^away> aw well.. if you want to know how api-bot works, you'll have to ask f! anyway
[02:47:54] <ricky_clarkson> GetAGrip: Your question doesn't make sense.
[02:47:56] <Honk^away> noone else ever got to see the code :P
[02:48:08] <ricky_clarkson> Honk^away: Well, at least javabot is open sores.
[02:48:14] <Honk^away> ricky_clarkson: =)
[02:48:20] <GetAGrip> which part?
[02:48:33] <Honk^away> GetAGrip: the "hello?" bit
[02:48:47] <GetAGrip> what do i return from a catch block if my exception is in a member function?
[02:48:50] <ricky_clarkson> GetAGrip: The part where the question is expressed (not the hello bit).
[02:48:57] <ricky_clarkson> Yeah, that.
[02:49:08] <Honk^away> hehe
[02:49:19] <Honk^away> null maybe ;)
[02:49:19] <GetAGrip> the return value for the member function was FileInputStream
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[02:49:43] <ricky_clarkson> GetAGrip: You could just allow the exception to propagate (do nothing with it).
[02:49:48] <Honk^away> yeah
[02:49:51] <GetAGrip> but the compiler complains
[02:49:53] <Honk^away> sounds like the proper solution :)
[02:49:53] <GetAGrip> but null works
[02:49:57] <Honk^away> catch it outside
[02:50:02] <ricky_clarkson> GetAGrip: You could add 'throws TheException' to the method.
[02:50:04] <Honk^away> otherwise you'll have to check for null
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[02:50:24] <GetAGrip> ok will add throws TheException
[02:50:44] <ricky_clarkson> GetAGrip: I often do catch (TheException exception){throw new RuntimeException(exception);} to evade the (debatably broken) checked exception.
[02:51:47] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell GetAGrip about exceptions
[02:51:47] <javabot> GetAGrip, exceptions is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/essential/exceptions
[02:52:01] <GetAGrip> I do know about exceptions :)
[02:52:07] <ricky_clarkson> I don't believe that.
[02:52:14] <GetAGrip> i get what you are saying ..
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[02:53:17] <ricky_clarkson> My wireless keeps lagging for a few seconds.  I should find out which neighbour I'm stealing it from and make the corresponding wall thinner.
[02:53:43] <diro> haha =)
[02:53:45] <GetAGrip> thanks for the help rick
[02:54:02] <ricky_clarkson> No worries, Hare.
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[03:03:38] <Prescriptor> hi al. how can i do something like Perl's dispatch table in Java? it's basically a Hashtable that if you call one of it's element, it "executes" a method specified by that element's value
[03:04:20] <ricky_clarkson> Prescriptor: What are the keys, strings?
[03:05:14] <ricky_clarkson> Map<Whatever,Runnable> anyway.
[03:05:37] <Prescriptor> map
[03:05:39] <Prescriptor> oh ok
[03:05:40] <Prescriptor> thanks
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[03:09:40] <Amnesiac> ricky_clarkson, that will spawn a new thread, why another thread? Perl's dispatch tables actions run on the same executing instance
[03:10:01] <Prescriptor> amnesiac.. yah. true...
[03:10:13] <Prescriptor> but i just need something that executes based on a string
[03:10:48] <Prescriptor> so if we have a map.put("add", obj.add()) .... i want to be able to run that obj.add() if i know string x = "add"
[03:10:52] <ricky_clarkson> Amnesiac: What the fuck has it got to do with threads?
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[03:11:10] <Amnesiac> ah well true, you just can call run() without probelms
[03:11:11] <Prescriptor> ricky.. i think he means reference to the object in memory
[03:11:18] <Amnesiac> I was thinking in the mix of Runnable + Thread Class
[03:11:19] <Amnesiac> my mistake
[03:11:24] <ricky_clarkson> He mistook Runnable for Thread.
[03:11:26] <Amnesiac> Prescriptor, no, I was wrong :)
[03:11:31] <Prescriptor> it's cool man
[03:11:38] <Amnesiac> Prescriptor, Runnable is not ONLY for threads :)
[03:11:55] <Honk^away> well.. he wants to use reflection anyway
[03:11:56] <Amnesiac> since I was thinking in Runnable + Thread, I was thinking in start(), etc
[03:11:58] <Honk^away> i think
[03:12:05] <ricky_clarkson> Prescriptor: Map<String,Runnable>
[03:12:06] * Amnesiac pets ricky_clarkson
[03:12:08] <Honk^away> though that'd be evul :)
[03:12:39] <Prescriptor> ricky. i'm trying that. right now i have Map m = new Map() , m.put("add",obj.add())
[03:12:43] <ricky_clarkson> Honk^away: Reflection is a pita because you lose compile-time advantages.
[03:12:56] <ricky_clarkson> Prescriptor: obj.add() is a method call, which I guess doesn't return a Runnable.
[03:13:00] <Honk^away> ricky_clarkson: dont tell me about it
[03:13:12] <Honk^away> but he wants to do that, according to his discription :)
[03:13:21] <Honk^away> though one should try to convince him of doing it properly :P
[03:13:36] <ricky_clarkson> Honk^away: He's mistaking Java for a language that has explicit delegate support, I think.
[03:13:40] <ricky_clarkson> Or rather hoping it does.
[03:13:51] <Prescriptor> hoping is right
[03:13:57] <Prescriptor> and i guess i have false hopes
[03:13:59] <Prescriptor> :-)
[03:14:17] <ricky_clarkson> Prescriptor: Here is the shortest syntax, I can give you longer simpler syntax if you don't understand it:
[03:14:36] <ricky_clarkson> Prescriptor: m.put("add",new Runnable(){public void run(){obj.add();}});
[03:15:08] <Prescriptor> the other way is to create a Hashtable hs with element keys like "add" "remove" and these with values like 0 and 1 respectively... then have a switch case statement so that 0,  and 1 execute the method add() and remove()
[03:15:38] <ricky_clarkson> Why do you keep mentioning Hashtable?
[03:15:47] <Prescriptor> ricky... but i see your method is nicer
[03:16:02] <Prescriptor> hashtables? because perl's dispatch tables are hash. i'm stock in that mindframe
[03:16:05] <Prescriptor> which is wrong
[03:16:07] <ricky_clarkson> My method is the strategy design pattern.  It has its pros an cons.
[03:16:20] <Prescriptor> well.... i like your method
[03:17:09] <ricky_clarkson> Longer syntax: m.put("add",new Adder()); --somewhere else-- class Adder implements Runnable { private WhateverObjIs obj; public Adder(WhateverObjIs obj){this.obj=obj; public void run(){obj.add();}}
[03:17:40] <ricky_clarkson> s/Adder()/Adder(obj)/
[03:18:14] <ricky_clarkson> Prescriptor: What interface[s] does Hashtable support?
[03:18:19] <ricky_clarkson> s/support/implement/
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[03:18:38] <Prescriptor> one sec. i'm trying your first syntax
[03:18:44] <Prescriptor> which seems to work.
[03:18:47] <Prescriptor> 1 sec
[03:19:08] <ricky_clarkson> If you use a preprocessor you could add a macro for that.
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[03:19:44] <ricky_clarkson> #define RUNDELEGATE(code) new Runnable(){public void run(){code}}
[03:19:52] <ricky_clarkson> Or similar.
[03:20:51] <Prescriptor> seems to work fine
[03:20:59] <Prescriptor> thanks a bunch ricky
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[03:21:48] <ricky_clarkson> np
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[03:28:00] <mixed> anyone know how i can detect circular definition with hashset?
[03:28:30] <ricky_clarkson> mixed: First define a circular definition.
[03:28:54] <ricky_clarkson> "A circular definition is this" is not adequate. ;)
[03:28:58] <mixed> a variable that holds a value that points to itself
[03:29:42] <ricky_clarkson> You mean if the Set holds a reference to itself?
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[03:31:11] <slava> spotlight is cool
[03:31:20] <ricky_clarkson> ~spotlight
[03:31:21] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, I have no idea what spotlight is.
[03:31:27] <slava> search engine in os x
[03:32:00] <ricky_clarkson> Like google desktop search?
[03:32:02] <karma^ghost> Speaking of Mac, I heard the battery in the iPod is not user-replaceable?
[03:32:15] <karma^ghost> Like firefox's find as you type
[03:32:38] <slava> ricky_clarkson: its like locate and grep on unix where the database is automatically updated in the background
[03:32:53] <ricky_clarkson> slava: That's what GDS does.
[03:33:07] <slava> i can type the name of a function in any programming language and it will take me to the definion :)
[03:33:53] <ricky_clarkson> The database that grep uses is only updated when you run grep, afaik.
[03:34:55] <pchapman> grep doesn't have a database.   It's a generic matching tool.  locate has a database.
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[03:35:10] <ricky_clarkson> pchapman: Why are repeated greps faster?
[03:35:32] <slava> i didn't say grep had a datbase
[03:35:32] <ricky_clarkson> Just because the OS still has the files loaded?
[03:35:34] <pchapman> because the second grep has fewer lines to search through.
[03:35:44] <ricky_clarkson> pchapman: Why?
[03:36:00] <tmh> I think ricky_clarkson means repeated, not piped.
[03:36:12] <ricky_clarkson> I know he does.
[03:36:12] <pchapman> Ah.  I thought he ment piped.
[03:36:55] <pchapman> I was not aware repeated greps run faster.  Where is alleged database located?
[03:37:02] <tmh> I file is cached. find also relies on some sort of cache, the second find on a large directory is always faster than the first.
[03:37:14] <ricky_clarkson> It might just be the OS keeping files around.
[03:37:18] <tmh> s/I/& think/
[03:37:42] <pchapman> ricky_clarkson, I suspect you are right.  I don't think grep keeps a database.
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[03:37:58] <ricky_clarkson> Maybe some implementation of it does. ;)
[03:38:18] <pchapman> If it does, my database is full 'cause I grep all the time.
[03:38:22] <pchapman> :-D
[03:39:10] <pchapman> Of course, I'm usually grepping through piped input.  Impossible to archive in a db.
[03:39:21] <Supaplex> you grokn' grepr'
[03:39:22] <pchapman> Well.  Not impossible, but completely pointless.
[03:39:31] <Supaplex> tee(1)
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[03:42:01] <bcml> what is the ascii code for EOF?
[03:42:33] <MrPrimate> is there an ascii code for EOF?
[03:42:45] <MrPrimate> i always thought that you'd just reach the end of your stream of data
[03:42:49] <tmh> No, then it wouldn't be EOF.
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[03:43:48] <bcml> tmh: yes exactly.. there must be a code for EOF
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[03:44:28] <bcml> what is that command in unix that dumps the binary of a file?
[03:44:30] <bcml> sed?
[03:44:40] <tag> huh
[03:44:45] <tag> that quesiton makes no sense
[03:44:51] <tag> and sed is the Stream EDitor
[03:45:29] <bcml> what i mean is displays the binary represenation of any file
[03:46:27] <pchapman> I always use emac's el mode.
[03:47:31] <pchapman> s/el/hexl/
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[03:48:34] <Cosine> what do you guys think about ms .Net?
[03:48:45] <bcml> i like it
[03:48:49] * pchapman eyes Cosine
[03:48:52] <bcml> its robust
[03:49:02] <tmh> bcml, no, there is no code, it is like an iterator, you use next() until there is not another item.
[03:49:19] <tmh> Except that we are talking about a stream, and there is no more data.
[03:49:32] <bcml> hmmm.
[03:49:33] <bcml> ok
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[03:51:45] <tmh> bcml, do you use an open source OS?
[03:51:58] <bcml> dual-boot
[03:52:07] <bcml> primarily winxp though
[03:52:45] <tmh> Okay, if you have the source, go look for some function in stdio and read the code to see how it reads files and indicates EOF.
[03:52:56] <tag> Robust?
[03:53:21] <bcml> yes.  the libraries are robust
[03:53:45] <slava> .net libraries are just a clone of java's
[03:53:58] <tag> more or less.
[03:54:10] <tag> I don't find .NET to be that robust
[03:55:56] <tmh> Isn't the robustness dependent on the person coding? Or are the errors in the base system?
[03:57:21] <tag> The best features I've found so far are that the CLR seems to be less efficient than the JVM and that the code is only a fraction of as portible.
[03:57:48] <tmh> CLR?
[03:57:55] <tag> Common Language Runtime?
[03:58:09] <tmh> Okay, I know nothing about .NET.
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[03:58:22] <pchapman> Isn't that a household cleaner?  :-D
[03:58:30] <tag> .NET has an implementation that largely mirrors that of java however it's less refined.
[03:58:31] <tmh> Yep, works well.
[03:59:09] <pchapman> .NET's APIs horrible.
[03:59:09] <tag> pchapman: yes, CLR is also an acronym for a household cleaner.  Calcium! Lime! Rust!  Not quite sure why the named the cleaner after what its designed to break down
[03:59:24] <tag> pchapman: All Microsoft APIs are horrible, atleast in my experience
[03:59:28] <pchapman> tag, I know.
[03:59:37] <pchapman> Why is it nobody ever gets my jokes?
[03:59:46] * pchapman pouts.
[03:59:59] <tag> heh.
[04:00:05] <tmh> Are you confusing 'not gets' with 'not funny'?
[04:00:22] <pchapman> tmh, That hurts man.  To the quick.
[04:00:50] <tmh> Sorry, if it will make you feel better to insult me, I can take it. :-)
[04:00:53] <pchapman> I guess I better cancel the comedy tour and stick with Java.
[04:01:15] <pchapman> tmh, Thanks for the invite, but I try not to insult people.  It's not nice.  :-)
[04:01:37] <tag> In fact
[04:01:54] * pchapman doesn't want to work on this stupid report.
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[04:02:17] <tag> maybe someone could explain to me, I don't know if I've just missed the point or not...but it seems to me that .NET adds quite a bit of overhead and does not seem to provide very much in exchange for this overhead.
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[04:03:02] <pchapman> tag, It's a Microsoft technology.  That's all you need to know.  Jump on the bandwagon already!
[04:03:20] <tag> pchapman: My company has
[04:03:29] <tag> And they are reluctantly dragging me behind it
[04:03:44] <tag> Or rather, my reluctance is causing me to be dragged behind it
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[04:03:59] <vinse> well as long as you're getting dragged
[04:04:02] <pchapman> I worked at a company that was doing that.  I felt I was loosing my soul.  I struck out as an independent consultant and left 'em.
[04:04:04] <tag> Anyway you get the idea, I'm having to use this shit.
[04:04:05] <vinse> that's what's important
[04:04:18] <tag> pchapman: I'm having the SAME IMPULSE
[04:04:20] <tag> Imagine!
[04:05:22] <pchapman> VB6 and VB.Net were rotting my brain.   :-)
[04:05:34] <tag> oh god
[04:05:40] <pchapman> I tried to talk them into at least allowing C#; but nooooo.
[04:05:41] <tag> well, I'm not having to use VB.NET alteast
[04:05:43] <tag> rather
[04:05:45] <tag> C#.NET
[04:05:54] <tag> as if that wasn't enough good lord
[04:06:09] <tag> I'd have more fun with JScript.NET
[04:06:15] <tag> honestly, C# is an agitating language
[04:06:35] <tag> but that's just silly personal preference details
[04:06:40] <pchapman> They had all VB6 developers.  They thought that it'd be easier for them to transition to VB.Net.  Hell VB.Net is almost a different language.  Might as well go to C# and use the better of the two.
[04:07:23] <pchapman> I'm fully convenced that *most* VB developers are idiots.
[04:07:33] <tag> I'm more concerned with the underlying aspects of .NET, and what advantage if any it provides to alternative technologies...like C++, or Java.
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[04:07:45] <pchapman> I was one for a while though; so not all of 'em.  :-D
[04:07:46] <tag> pchapman: most?
[04:08:18] <tag> pchapman: I read that as "I was an idiot for a while, but I wisened up"
[04:08:32] <pchapman> tag, I've met a few good ones.
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[04:09:12] <pchapman> tag, I wasn't ever an idiot, I don't think.  I was putting food on the table and they payed me for making the best of a crappy language.
[04:09:47] <tag> what the hell is J# anyway
[04:10:10] <tag> pchapman: Oh right
[04:10:15] <tag> kind of like I'm doing now with .NET
[04:10:36] <pchapman> tag, J# It's a bastardized .NET language that is supposed to help java developers transition to .NET.
[04:11:08] <pchapman> At last that's what I've come to believe.  I've not used it though.
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[04:13:35] <cHaoTiCa> that's about right
[04:13:54] <cHaoTiCa> j# is a half-assed, ms-ified java lookalike
[04:14:02] <cHaoTiCa> even more so than c# :)
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[04:14:24] <pchapman> Which is scary because c# looks so much like a bastard java that it isn't funny.
[04:15:18] <cHaoTiCa> yeah....but at least c# adds stuff.  j# just changes the class names and takes stuff out :)
[04:15:53] <pchapman> cHaoTiCa, Point taken.
[04:17:52] <cobaltsixty> J# was made mostly as a migration tool from VJ++
[04:18:23] <cobaltsixty> and that's awful, for sure.
[04:18:44] <tag> VJ++
[04:18:46] <tag> good lord
[04:18:49] * tag dies
[04:19:17] <pchapman> Aparently Sun felt the same way.  :-D
[04:19:18] <cobaltsixty> Well, VJ++ was considered one of the best languages for Win32 Development, anyway. :)
[04:19:22] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[04:19:41] <Supaplex> best is relative
[04:20:04] <ricky_clarkson> That's how incest families think.
[04:20:11] <ricky_clarkson> incestuous.
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[04:20:22] <pchapman> I've heard that Boland's VB-killer was the best.  What's it's name?  Dang.  Can't think of it.
[04:20:26] <pchapman> Based on pascal.
[04:20:27] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[04:20:33] <ricky_clarkson> Delphi.
[04:20:35] <littlezoper> delphi
[04:20:40] <cobaltsixty> yes, but among the bubble times, it was highly regarded by asp developers
[04:20:45] <pchapman> That's it.  Obviously, I never used it.
[04:20:50] <cHaoTiCa> bah.
[04:20:58] <Supaplex> vp++
[04:21:00] <Supaplex> ;)
[04:21:04] <cHaoTiCa> delphi == teh suck
[04:21:19] <ricky_clarkson> Delphi was pretty good.
[04:21:20] <cobaltsixty> oh, uselesss trivia: anders hejsberg left delphi, went to msft, and was responsible for fixing up interdev. next, he moved on to vj++. and then to .net.
[04:21:23] <cHaoTiCa> mostly cause it's based on pascal, imo :)
[04:21:39] <Supaplex> yup :) imo to
[04:21:57] <ricky_clarkson> cHaoTiCa: Anything more intelligent to add?
[04:22:02] <Prescriptor> in java , how can i do that global search with java.util.regex .... in other languages we have regexVar = /asdfasdf/ig; so that g will do the trick, how can i do this in Java? for some reason, none of the compile() flags seem to work
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[04:23:06] <cobaltsixty> Prescriptor, global is meant to do multiple substitutions, instead of a first-match basis. perhaps you could iterate over the matches?
[04:23:29] <jbalint> Hi, I am changing the L&F in my app, and calling SwingUtilities.updateComponentTreeUI, and there is apparently a missing scrollbar, so I get this exception http://rafb.net/paste/results/awHLr422.html. Anybody know the solution to this one?
[04:23:51] <kinabalu> webwork2 is pissing me off :(
[04:24:09] <cHaoTiCa> ricky_clarkson....heh.  let's just say pascal was designed to be anal retentive, as it was meant to be a teaching tool
[04:24:15] <littlezoper> delphi was/is awesome
[04:24:41] <pchapman> BASIC was originally designed as a teaching tool too.
[04:24:45] <ricky_clarkson> cHaoTiCa: Object Pascal sorted some of those out.
[04:25:11] <pchapman> I guess what the teachers didn't realize is that students tend to use what they know after they graduate.  Even if it's not the best tool for the job.
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[04:25:31] <mohadib> hehe
[04:25:38] <littlezoper> you can do pretty much anything in dlephi that you can do in java
[04:25:39] <littlezoper> mostly
[04:26:46] <pchapman> I don't think the question is whether you *can* do something, but whether it is easy, intuative, and not error-prone.
[04:26:58] <jbalint> Delphi Servlets? Delphi RMI? Delphi EE?
[04:27:31] <littlezoper> you can do web apps in delphi.  you may have to do them differenly, but you can do it
[04:27:47] <littlezoper> don't confuse libraries with language capabilities
[04:27:55] <littlezoper> anyhho...
[04:28:01] <littlezoper> gotta run and put my son to bed night...
[04:28:02] <pchapman> You can do web apps in bash.  What's the point?
[04:28:18] <littlezoper> just that delphi is not teh suck (dumb phrase)
[04:28:34] <littlezoper> it's a great language, much maligned by people who don't really know it
[04:28:37] <jbalint> Actually libraries are a big advantage to Java. They don't help the language per se, but are a good reason to choose it.
[04:28:44] <littlezoper> true
[04:28:47] <littlezoper> night :)
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[04:28:50] <jbalint> bye
[04:28:52] <pchapman> g'night
[04:29:02] <pchapman> jbalint, Looks like we're a bit slow.
[04:29:09] <jbalint> So what's up?
[04:29:30] <pchapman> He left before I got my "g'night" out.
[04:29:34] <jbalint> me too
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[04:46:06] * mohadib wants one of the computers from swordfish
[04:46:15] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[04:46:37] <Honk^away> i want the software instead
[04:46:57] <cHaoTiCa> i want just about any movie pc....they all have 3d guis and ai shells :)
[04:47:01] <mohadib> yes , the software ... thats what i wantr
[04:47:05] <pchapman> I want one of the computers from any movie or TV show. It doesn't matter what the question is, you type in a few words and it has the answer.
[04:47:06] <mohadib> yep
[04:47:23] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[04:47:25] <cHaoTiCa> i said it first :)
[04:47:36] <mohadib> and they all blast light on your face ... such that you can see the text scrolling by on some ones face in front of it
[04:47:45] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[04:47:53] <cHaoTiCa> that does have geek appeal
[04:47:53] <pchapman> hehe
[04:47:54] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[04:47:56] <mohadib> heh
[04:48:03] <Honk^away> definitely
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[04:49:52] <slava> mohadib!
[04:51:30] <mohadib> hola player
[04:51:48] <slava> i'm fooling aroudn with FreeType
[04:51:53] <mohadib> subversion *works* now :)  im without words
[04:52:13] <mohadib> huh , trying to get some blinging fonts?
[04:52:17] <mohadib> er
[04:52:21] <mohadib> subclipse
[04:52:22] <slava> yah
[04:53:01] <pchapman> mohadib, Waht was wrong with your subversion?
[04:53:08] <vinse> adlfjdsaldjfawdkjasdfasd
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[04:53:13] <vinse> f cygwin
[04:53:16] <vinse> god dammit
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[04:53:19] <pchapman> I just moved from cvs to subversion yesterday.  :-)
[04:53:20] <slava> the api is pretty low level
[04:53:24] <slava> you draw characters one at a time :/
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[04:53:36] * pchapman likes cygwin for when he *must* do windows.
[04:53:53] <mohadib> pchapman: subversion is great ... i ment to say subclipse , the svn plugin for Eclipse
[04:54:10] <mohadib> it works now... like really
[04:54:16] <mohadib> no more toy shit
[04:54:23] <mohadib> its a tool now :)
[04:54:28] <pchapman> mohadib, Yup.  I'm using that too.  I was thrilled to find that I could use svn+ssh with subclipse and didn't even have to set up webdav.
[04:54:32] <mohadib> much like cheeser
[04:54:35] <mohadib> cHaoTiCa: ;)
[04:54:41] <mohadib> er cheeser ;)
[04:54:54] <mohadib> yes , webdav sucks
[04:54:57] <mohadib> imho
[04:55:38] <pchapman> I wish webdav would grow up.  My company is in need of a good wan fs.
[04:55:59] <mohadib> man my hardrive is making some odd sounds :\
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[04:56:14] <pchapman> mohadib, Time to back up...  Just in case.
[04:56:18] <mohadib> pchapman: use sftp
[04:56:37] <jmop> If i have an image object, how do i load that image as a BufferedImage?
[04:56:47] <mohadib> pchapman: yep :\ ... i just bought the drive , this dell loves to eat drives ... this its third one
[04:56:54] <pchapman> mohadib, Unfortuantaly, they use 2003 for file server.  Everything else is Linux.
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[04:58:02] <mohadib> jmop: with a ImageIcon you cat do getImage() ,, might look and see if Image has such a method
[04:58:10] <mohadib> or you can always make an image icon
[04:59:01] <jmop> i want to convert from Image to BufferedImage
[04:59:11] <jmop> thanks.
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[04:59:44] <mohadib> new ImageIcon(image).getImage();
[04:59:46] <mohadib> api is great
[05:00:18] <mohadib> er..
[05:00:29] <Amnesiac> really? :P
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[05:01:06] <mohadib> heh
[05:01:12] * mohadib shuts it
[05:01:19] <cHaoTiCa> could also do getGraphics().drawImage(...) or something like that on the BufferedImage, i think
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[05:04:26] <jmop> can i msg you mohadib
[05:04:45] <mohadib> jmop: sure
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[05:14:47] <slava> mohadib: freetype is a pain in the ass
[05:16:08] <slava> i'm going through the nehe tutorial on rendering truetype fonts in opengl
[05:17:02] <pchapman> Speaking of fonts.  Is there a open source font that can be used for computer readable text, such as routing numbers on checks?
[05:17:17] <pchapman> I don't know what that font is called.
[05:21:28] <jmop> you making a game or something?
[05:26:50] <amphiboyd> pchapman: you mean an OCR-friendly font?
[05:28:57] <slava> is there a trick to compute the next power of 2 after an integer?
[05:28:59] <pchapman> amphiboyd, Possibly.  That special font that is used by banks on checks.
[05:30:02] <jmop> slava, what do you mean.
[05:30:08] <slava> eg, given 13, return 16
[05:30:19] <slava> opengl texture sizes have to be powers of 2, so i have to 'round up' the size of each character
[05:30:34] <jmop> ceiling
[05:30:43] <slava> ceiling is not what i want
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[05:31:22] <jmop> there are no FTP commands in java?
[05:31:24] <slava> don't /msg me please jmalicki
[05:31:26] <slava> jmop*
[05:31:28] <pchapman> amphiboyd, http://www.creditron.com/fonts.htm  Check out E13B Font
[05:31:35] <jmop> sorry
[05:31:43] <pchapman> Like that.
[05:32:39] <amphiboyd> pchapman: yup, OCR fonts...
[05:32:47] <slava> jmop: i wrote it using a loop
[05:32:50] <slava> but that might not be the best way
[05:33:15] <pchapman> amphiboyd, Know of any open-source OCR fonts?
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[05:33:31] <amphiboyd> pchapman: nope :(   but Google should find you that...
[05:33:40] <cHaoTiCa> slava.....math tells me (int) ceil(log(num) / log(2)) would do it....but that feels expensive
[05:33:52] <pchapman> Google found me those, but no open source so far.  :-)
[05:34:02] <amphiboyd> pchapman: man... Financial stuff, now OCR fonts to print on checks, what big stuff are you working on?   :)
[05:34:07] <cHaoTiCa> err
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[05:34:17] <cHaoTiCa> 2 << all that :)
[05:34:21] <JustinTArthur> Hello.
[05:34:38] <pchapman> amphiboyd, I want to print my own checks, make my own money, and rule the world.  :-)
[05:35:03] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[05:35:14] <amphiboyd> jmop: you can directly read or send FTP files in Java... But you don't have much control without using a 3rd party API.
[05:35:22] <amphiboyd> pchapman:  :)
[05:35:22] <jmop> you're just making my insurance prices go up pchapman
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[05:35:35] <JustinTArthur> Quick question, what's the best way to package images with Applications? I've got a Swing JFrame that I'd like to have an icon for, but I'd hate to have the end-user be responsible for having the image just lying around in the proper place and just reference it with a URL. I'd like to package it in the JAR at the very least.
[05:35:36] <spefl0w> any one know how to get jms installed on a linux system?
[05:35:38] <jmop> that 3.5% interest rate
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[05:35:52] <pchapman> jmop, Suck it up.  I want to be rich.
[05:35:57] <pchapman> :-D
[05:36:08] <pchapman> Ah, darn.
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[05:38:53] <cHaoTiCa> JustinTArthur....so put it in the jar :)
[05:39:10] <amphiboyd> jmop: new URL("ftp://user:password@ftpserver//path;type=a")   then you create an URLConnection, then you read or write to the streams.  Google "java ftp URL URLConnection" etc.
[05:39:34] <JustinTArthur> cHaoTiCa: how do I reference it after that?
[05:39:34] <Honk^away> urrh.. is it possible to send fonts with webstart apps? :P
[05:40:19] <cybereal> Honk^away: I don't see why not
[05:40:26] <Honk^away> JustinTArthur: getClass().getResource() prolly :)
[05:41:44] <Honk^away> cybereal: maybe cuz Font doesnt have any constructor to build a font from a file or a stream :)
[05:42:31] <Honk^away> oh
[05:42:32] <Honk^away> it has
[05:42:35] <cHaoTiCa> it hoes implement Serializable, though
[05:42:41] <cHaoTiCa> does too
[05:42:52] <slava> that won't serialize the font data
[05:43:09] <Honk^away> createFont(int fontFormat,
[05:43:09] <Honk^away>  InputStream fontStream) <-- i didnt see that method
[05:43:35] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[05:43:38] <cHaoTiCa> that'll work :)
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[05:44:54] <slava> hi dibblego
[05:48:12] <Honk^away> i hate this version of xchat :/ it doesnt show binary chars :(
[05:48:25] <cHaoTiCa> binary chars?
[05:48:29] <JustinTArthur> Thanks, Honk^away
[05:48:34] <cHaoTiCa> as in latin-1 stuff?
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[05:50:03] <kinabalu> Honk^away: xchat sucks.  :)  cli is better .. irssi++
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[05:50:51] <Honk^away> console clients are really not alternative
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[05:52:34] <Honk^away> they have some trouble showing all channels i'm in.. and i really dont like learning number<->channel combinations =)
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[05:53:35] <[GT]Kane> hey do I need to compile in 64bit to make the jar take the 64bit effects?
[05:54:13] <Honk^away> the jar should be the same..
[05:54:17] <[GT]Kane> really?
[05:54:22] <Honk^away> i hope :)
[05:54:31] <Honk^away> otherwise javas portability would be lost :)
[05:54:34] <[GT]Kane> good cuz I rather work on it in windows :P
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[05:54:54] <[GT]Kane> well this is a full blown game server made in java
[05:54:57] <Honk^away> now that's something you shouldnt say :)
[05:55:12] <[GT]Kane> well for a linux box :P
[05:55:15] <Honk^away> (the "I rather work in windows" bit
[05:55:19] <[GT]Kane> lol
[05:55:40] <[GT]Kane> well good java's " portability "
[05:55:43] <[GT]Kane> ;)
[05:55:59] <Honk^away> this is not about java ;)
[05:56:04] <Honk^away> it's about windows
[05:56:34] <[GT]Kane> lol
[05:56:40] <[GT]Kane> next question
[05:56:51] <[GT]Kane> is it true IBM VM is better then suns VM?
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[05:57:05] <[GT]Kane> has there been benchmarks between the 2?
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[05:59:14] <Honk^away> prolly :)
[05:59:27] <Honk^away> suns vm performs pretty good if you ask me though
[05:59:30] <Honk^away> with the -server bit at least
[05:59:35] <[GT]Kane> well
[05:59:44] <[GT]Kane> this a l2 emulatated server
[05:59:54] <[GT]Kane> lets say 60 players in windows it eats a 100% cpu
[06:00:05] <[GT]Kane> so even 1% would make a diffrence hehe
[06:00:34] <Honk^away> well.. are you using -server?
[06:00:43] <Honk^away> that'll make a 30% difference if you're lucky *g*
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[06:01:08] <[GT]Kane> whats -server mean
[06:01:09] <[GT]Kane> lol
[06:01:24] <Prescriptor> how can one loop over a Hashtable object? ie, how can i get the key #2 if i construct a loop for int i = 0 to i<hashtable.size() ..... considering that hashes aren't indexed
[06:01:31] <cybereal> [GT]Kane: runs with the server type optimizations
[06:01:41] <Honk^away> [GT]Kane: that's a java cmdline switch
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[06:02:19] <cybereal> Prescriptor: do you mean, how can one get an entry in a hashtable by index?  or do you mean to really loop?  If you really mean to loop, use .iterator()
[06:02:24] <Honk^away> Prescriptor: there's methods to get enumerations for keys, values and key/value pairs :P
[06:02:40] <Prescriptor> a loop
[06:02:44] <Prescriptor> i don't need index
[06:02:48] <[GT]Kane> I will try that Honk once I get it installed thanks.
[06:02:54] <Honk^away> :]
[06:03:02] <Honk^away> if that doesnt help enuff, start optimizing your code
[06:03:15] <Honk^away> oh, and use a recent vm ;)
[06:03:17] <pchapman> Prescriptor, You might want to look deeper into loops.
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[06:03:21] <[GT]Kane> you really should see how big it is :P
[06:03:31] <Honk^away> if it still doesnt help, start profiling+optimizing
[06:03:42] <Honk^away> [GT]Kane: loc?
[06:03:57] <Prescriptor> i'm looking at api, there's nothing that's like "end of" ... something like    while(!hashtable.eof) {}
[06:04:00] <[GT]Kane> http://l2j.sourceforge.net/
[06:04:10] <cybereal> Prescriptor: iterators!
[06:04:13] <[GT]Kane> it's a lineage 2 server emulator
[06:04:16] <[GT]Kane> made in java
[06:04:54] * pchapman thinks there is even sample code in the API documentation for Iterator interface.
[06:04:57] <cybereal> Prescriptor: for (Iterator it = myhashtable.iterator(); it.hasNext();) { /* use it.next() here, returns object of some kind*/}
[06:05:02] <Prescriptor> shit
[06:05:12] <Prescriptor> forgot iterator.hasnext()
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[06:05:20] <pchapman> I'll take that as a slap on the forhead.  :-D
[06:05:21] <Prescriptor> i need coffee
[06:05:51] <Prescriptor> it's 3 oclock here..... i've been working since 9 am (3 am i mean).... so no sleep
[06:06:09] <pchapman> You're not alone.  I do it all the time.
[06:06:38] <pchapman> I was wrong.  The implementation sample is in the API docs of Enumeration, but using Iterator is much the same.
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[06:08:06] <Prescriptor> nevertheless. same concept....
[06:08:31] <[GT]Kane> hmm
[06:10:27] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: Iterators are so...  2000.
[06:10:38] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: Real Men(tm) use enhanced 'for' statements.
[06:10:57] <[GT]Kane> hey now hey now dododod
[06:11:23] <[GT]Kane> Hey now hey now don't dream it's over hey now hey now worlds caves in
[06:11:35] <[GT]Kane> :P tad drunk.
[06:12:01] <Tac> pr3d4t0r, ever stress test an e-commerce site?
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[06:12:26] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: iterators > (enhanced for statements)
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[06:13:52] <pchapman> All the compiler does is expand the enhanced for loop into a loop using iterators.
[06:14:04] <pchapman> It's a matter of taste.
[06:14:10] <pr3d4t0r> Tac: Every day.
[06:14:18] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: No, they aren't.
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[06:14:39] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: But I'm not in the mood to troll/argue tonight.  Working on downloading some videos from the iTunes store.
[06:14:42] <pr3d4t0r> vinse!
[06:14:45] <Tac> pr3d4t0r, how do you go about that?
[06:15:04] <Tac> my boss threw this site in front of me .. said he wanted to know what sort of user load it could handle
[06:15:05] <vinse> pr3d4t0r!
[06:15:08] <Tac> i dunno wtf to do with it
[06:15:23] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: why would you want to pay for crappy videos?
[06:15:26] <pr3d4t0r> Tac: Find something called Silk.  Write a script for it.  Profile it.
[06:15:33] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: Because it's part of my job.
[06:15:37] <Honk^away> <[GT]Kane> lets say 60 players in windows it eats a 100% cpu <-- btw.. what kind of machine are we talking about?
[06:15:38] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: And because I'm intrigued.
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[06:15:42] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: good reason I guess
[06:15:51] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: And Pixar's videos are hardly "crappy".
[06:16:13] <[GT]Kane> Honk^away a 1700+ with sdram LMAO
[06:16:32] <[GT]Kane> my other box is a 2800+ 64bit with 1gigs of ddram
[06:16:41] <[GT]Kane> the one I'm moving it too
[06:16:51] <Honk^away> aw well.. that's ok i guess ;)
[06:16:52] <[GT]Kane> but I can't get mysql to work right need help lol
[06:17:02] <pr3d4t0r> Tac: Another way would be to write a bash script + cURL.
[06:17:06] <[GT]Kane> want see the one I ordered
[06:17:15] <Honk^away> emerge mysql
[06:17:16] <Honk^away> =D
[06:17:20] <[GT]Kane> Honk
[06:17:20] <[GT]Kane> http://www.layeredtech.com/order.php?packageId=130
[06:17:21] <pr3d4t0r> Tac: You'll have to do everything from scratch, but that'll work and pull lotsa data off your site.
[06:17:48] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: how long are the videos?
[06:18:06] <Honk^away> [GT]Kane: gah, only one cpu :P
[06:18:09] <mohadib> [GT]Kane: one of my co-workers uses layerdtech
[06:18:20] <[GT]Kane> Honk I can't offred 2 cpu's :P
[06:18:25] <mohadib> [GT]Kane: my linux user group is getting a box with them too
[06:18:33] <[GT]Kane> nice
[06:18:35] <Tac> pr3d4t0r, can i curl in like 3 or 4 levels deep though? ive never tried to think that much
[06:18:36] <[GT]Kane> I used them before man
[06:18:41] <[GT]Kane> you will enjoy them a lot
[06:19:07] <mohadib> [GT]Kane: my coworker seems really happy with them , and he is run astrics , so the network must be good
[06:19:18] <Tac> user has to log in .. go somwhere... select something... new page.. fillout the form .. and submit and confirm ... to even hit the gateway interaction
[06:19:47] <Honk^away> [GT]Kane: mhh :)
[06:19:52] <[GT]Kane> anyone bored
[06:20:00] <[GT]Kane> want to setup mysql and java for me lol
[06:20:36] <MacIver> no
[06:20:50] <MacIver> but i will for cash
[06:20:54] <[GT]Kane> well I guess I better learn
[06:21:00] <mohadib> it's easy
[06:21:07] <[GT]Kane> brb let me try :D
[06:21:09] <mohadib> apt-get mysql-server :) the dl java
[06:21:24] <[GT]Kane> whats this? apt-get mysql-server
[06:21:40] <pr3d4t0r> Tac: Yup.
[06:21:49] <mohadib> [GT]Kane: what OS is mysql going to run on
[06:21:51] <pr3d4t0r> Tac: Google for cURL's tutorial, by the author.
[06:22:24] <vinse> there's an adam corolla show?
[06:22:33] <[GT]Kane> slamd64
[06:22:34] <dibblego> hello slava
[06:22:45] <MacIver> slapt-get then ;-)
[06:22:45] <vinse> i just heard some drunken guest just got thrown off the adam corolla show ... i didnt even know there was such a thing
[06:22:48] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: So, dude.  Tacos tonight?
[06:22:52] <vinse> sounds like good television though
[06:23:03] <Tac> pr3d4t0r, thats usually a last step thought right? i just ran through functional tests and broke it over a dozen times.... i might just tell them all these errors and bypass the stress testing.. that will give me a day to figure out all the curling :-p
[06:23:05] <vinse> pr3d4t0r: no going to sleep early, tired :/
[06:23:09] <mohadib> [GT]Kane: er... slamd64 is a OS?
[06:23:09] <vinse> thx though
[06:23:11] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Ah.
[06:23:12] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: :)
[06:23:22] <[GT]Kane> apprently a good os :P
[06:23:22] <vinse> one day i will say yes!
[06:23:25] <MacIver> [GT]Kane: slackware comes with mysql...
[06:23:31] <pr3d4t0r> Tac: Your test scripts should've been written before the application was written.
[06:23:32] <[GT]Kane> not 64bit?
[06:23:36] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: He, he, he...
[06:23:37] <vinse> and you'll have to actually meet me somewhere instead of just claiming you will
[06:23:44] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: I'm downloading videos from iTunes.
[06:23:46] <Tac> pr3d4t0r, not my site :)
[06:23:50] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Just bought a Pixar short.
[06:23:56] <pr3d4t0r> Tac: Sucks to be you then :)
[06:23:59] <[GT]Kane> let me install java first
[06:23:59] <vinse> nice
[06:24:01] <[GT]Kane> one thing at a time lol
[06:24:10] <[GT]Kane> is there way to wget java from there site
[06:24:13] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Documenting what the purchasing experience is like.
[06:24:19] <Tac> my company was just pulled on to go over it for them ( double check the indians work )
[06:24:19] <MacIver> [GT]Kane: yes
[06:24:20] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: Professional reasons, yada yada yada.
[06:24:31] <vinse> kewl
[06:24:52] <[GT]Kane> MacIver how i tried before no luck had to download to windows then SCP it over lol
[06:25:07] <Tac> and they also wanted stress testing done ... but with all these things wrong ... i should probably be safe to put off the stress testing, eh?
[06:25:53] <vinse> man i'm glad you dont work for me Tac
[06:25:58] <vinse> you always seem to have excuses!
[06:26:05] <vinse> waah waah .net sucks!
[06:26:06] <Tac> :-D
[06:26:12] <vinse> waah waah there's too many bugs to stress test!
[06:26:14] <[GT]Kane> how do I wget this https://jsecom15b.sun.com/ECom/EComActionServlet;jsessionid=CF902BD86BB8C87B707BBB639CA0F87F#
[06:26:18] <Tac> its in asp even :-p
[06:26:22] <[GT]Kane> the 64bit one for linux
[06:27:17] <mohadib> um... i dont see how to add a close button to a tab of a tabbed pane :\  anyone tried this?
[06:27:39] <Tac> hey vinse dammit :-p .. its not our companies site.... :-D... im just trying to get enough reasoning so that i can go to bed :-p
[06:28:20] <mohadib> guess i could put a listener on the icon i give :)
[06:28:28] <vinse> Tac: yeah i'm just being surly ;)
[06:28:34] <Honk^away> [GT]Kane: try links or lynx ;)
[06:28:50] <vinse> fielding pointless whining is one of the primary purposes of irc!
[06:28:51] <Tac> i think ive got a good enough basis for sleep :-D
[06:28:56] <Tac> time to write an email and go to bed
[06:29:12] <Tac> make their developer give me a 'complete' site before i stress test it
[06:29:18] <slava> pr3d4t0r: i'm almost done porting my gui to opengl. just have to finish font rendering, which is a pain because you have to draw each character is a quad with the texture of the character glyph
[06:29:21] <[GT]Kane> woot!
[06:29:24] <[GT]Kane> wget http://www.java.net/download/jdk6/binaries/jdk-6_0-ea-bin-b55-linux-amd64-06_oct_2005-rpm.bin
[06:29:27] <[GT]Kane> :D
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[06:34:30] <[GT]Kane> hmm
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[06:34:37] <[GT]Kane> Don;t I do this ./jdk-6_0-ea-linux-amd64.rpm
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[06:34:38] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Cool.
[06:34:41] <[GT]Kane> aint that how it works?
[06:34:48] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[06:34:50] <cHaoTiCa> no
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[06:35:03] <cHaoTiCa> rpm -i jdk..........rpm
[06:35:04] <[GT]Kane> pft lol
[06:35:07] <pr3d4t0r> Q. If I were to get a TV show, which one should I get?  "Desperate Housewives" or "Lost" and why?
[06:35:08] <[GT]Kane> thanks
[06:35:14] * pr3d4t0r doesn't watch television.
[06:35:20] <W1thdr4ww> is there a way an easier way to print 100 spaces
[06:35:27] <[GT]Kane> I'm guessing -i means install
[06:35:34] <cHaoTiCa> yup
[06:35:35] <W1thdr4ww> besides doing System.out.println(" [100spaces]");
[06:35:42] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[06:35:52] <cHaoTiCa> that's the fastest way
[06:36:10] <W1thdr4ww> well...
[06:36:14] <dibblego> it's not
[06:36:14] <W1thdr4ww> ill rephrase that
[06:36:37] <dibblego> for(int i = 0; i < 100; i++){System.out.print(' ');}
[06:36:47] <W1thdr4ww> exactly thanks
[06:36:49] <dibblego> ignore suggestions regarding performance; they are fllacy
[06:36:52] <dibblego> *fallacy
[06:36:52] <W1thdr4ww> jsut what i was looking for
[06:36:53] <cHaoTiCa> that's the next simplest
[06:36:57] <vinse> W1thdr4ww: the3re's no cutesy perl-ish way like print " " x 100
[06:37:01] <cHaoTiCa> but it's a lot slower
[06:37:04] <vinse> if that's what you meant
[06:37:05] <dibblego> it isn't
[06:37:25] <vinse> oh nm
[06:37:34] <W1thdr4ww> yeah im gonna make a loop and have it print a character then on the next line insert a space then print the character
[06:37:40] <slava> dibblego: a good collections library has a "repetition" sequence
[06:37:40] <pr3d4t0r> OKi, so "Lost" or "Desperate Housewives" and why?
[06:37:47] <dibblego> slava: got one
[06:37:50] <W1thdr4ww> and the repeat
[06:37:51] <vinse> desperate housewives is unwatchable
[06:37:55] <vinse> so i'd say lost
[06:38:02] <vinse> but just cuz i've never seen it
[06:38:12] <vinse> i'm sure it's also terrible
[06:38:22] <vinse> but then i'm the wrong person to ask cuz i dont like anything
[06:38:31] <dibblego> slava: http://www.xdweb.net/~dibblego/javadoc/net/tmorris/adt/sequence/ConstantSequence.html
[06:38:46] <slava> cool
[06:39:14] * pr3d4t0r can't believe that nobody in ##java watches TV.
[06:39:26] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[06:39:36] * cHaoTiCa is watching south park right now :)
[06:39:40] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: I only watch Adult Swim sorry :)
[06:39:46] <pr3d4t0r> Aw, fuck it.  "Desperate Housewives".  At least four nice looking chix0rs in that one.
[06:39:46] <vinse> i watch the sopranos
[06:39:54] <vinse> and hbo on demand
[06:39:55] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: I can say that I have watched one episode of Desperate Housewives and it's remotely interesting... Lost just looks stupid.
[06:40:00] <vinse> which is like the best thing ever
[06:40:06] * slava doens't watch TV
[06:40:08] <pr3d4t0r> vinse: "The Sopranos" isn't for sale on iTunes and I need to finish testing/documenting this.
[06:40:25] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: OKi, that's good 'nuff for me.  Thank you.
[06:40:34] <mohadib> ~slava++
[06:40:35] <javabot> slava has a karma level of 112, mohadib
[06:40:41] <mohadib> tv is for chumps
[06:40:55] <pr3d4t0r> ~karma pr3d4t0r
[06:40:55] <javabot> pr3d4t0r, you have a karma level of 121.
[06:41:02] <pr3d4t0r> Damn, he's catching up.
[06:41:05] <mohadib> stop bragging
[06:41:09] <dibblego> my girlfriend said I can throw our tv out the window when the kids go to school
[06:41:10] <mohadib> :p
[06:41:24] <cybereal> ~slava++
[06:41:25] <javabot> slava has a karma level of 113, cybereal
[06:41:33] <cybereal> for helping me with ocaml earlier :)
[06:41:43] <pchapman> ~slava++
[06:41:44] <javabot> slava has a karma level of 114, pchapman
[06:41:44] <[GT]Kane> HEY
[06:41:47] <pchapman> Just because.
[06:41:51] <pr3d4t0r> ~leave
[06:41:51] <javabot> I'll be back in one hour
[06:41:51] *** javabot has left ##java
[06:41:51] <pchapman> :-D
[06:41:55] <pr3d4t0r> He, he, he...
[06:41:55] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[06:41:57] <[GT]Kane> Ok i got a folder called jdk1.5.0_05 what now?
[06:41:59] <MacIver> lol
[06:42:03] <[GT]Kane> has bin files and stuff inside it
[06:42:11] <Honk^away> [GT]Kane: and stuff?
[06:42:14] <[GT]Kane> COPYRIGHT  README.html                  bin/   include/  lib/  sample/
[06:42:14] <[GT]Kane> LICENSE    THIRDPARTYLICENSEREADME.txt  demo/  jre/      man/  src.zip
[06:42:15] <Honk^away> there shouldnt be any "and stuff"
[06:42:16] <cybereal> [GT]Kane: that's it, that's java
[06:42:17] <[GT]Kane> that stuff :)
[06:42:20] <Honk^away> lol
[06:42:23] <pchapman> pr3d4t0r, That sounded like sour grapes.
[06:42:26] <[GT]Kane> now what :P
[06:42:29] <cHaoTiCa> if you installed the rpm right, java should be in your path
[06:42:30] <Honk^away> [GT]Kane: why dont ya use your package manager?
[06:42:40] <[GT]Kane> ah what lol
[06:42:41] <Honk^away> cHaoTiCa: i doubt he used the rpm at all
[06:42:42] <cybereal> [GT]Kane: depends on your distro, usually you want to put it somewhere and get the bin directory of the jre and such in the path
[06:42:46] <[GT]Kane> i used a .bin
[06:42:52] <cHaoTiCa> he downloaded it :)
[06:42:59] <mohadib>  *\0/*
[06:43:01] <[GT]Kane> eww I'm bad brb let me get the other one
[06:43:03] <cybereal> [GT]Kane: commonly you'll put it in /opt/java/<version> or similar
[06:43:05] <[GT]Kane> self extracting Im guessing
[06:43:15] <Honk^away> [GT]Kane: distributions come with some kind of paketmanager
[06:43:15] <[GT]Kane> pfft to mcuh work let me download other
[06:43:19] <[GT]Kane> How do I delete stuff
[06:43:20] <Honk^away> that's what you use for installing software
[06:43:26] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r
[06:43:27] <cybereal> yeah self extracting cpio archive or whatever
[06:43:27] <Honk^away> if you dont, you mess up your system after a while
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[06:43:39] <cybereal> [GT]Kane: you don't know how to delete things in linux?
[06:43:47] <[GT]Kane> del foldername :P
[06:43:49] <cybereal> no
[06:43:57] <Honk^away> man rm
[06:44:13] <Honk^away> and read the manual of your distribution on how to install stuff
[06:44:41] <pr3d4t0r> Aw, fuck it.
[06:44:48] <cHaoTiCa> [GT]Kane.... what flavor of linux are you using?
[06:44:56] <[GT]Kane> i know im not stupid ;)
[06:44:58] <cybereal> spiced curry! say spiced curry!
[06:45:01] <[GT]Kane> rm -d foldername
[06:45:09] <Honk^away> nope
[06:45:16] <cHaoTiCa> try rm -rf foldername
[06:45:18] <pr3d4t0r> I assume that there isn't a lot of backstory for "Desperate Housewives".  The complete last season is $35 and they don't sell individual episodes.
[06:45:27] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: uh
[06:45:30] <pr3d4t0r> So it'll be this season's premier.
[06:45:30] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: there is a lot of backstory
[06:45:41] <Honk^away> try rm -tf / as root =D
[06:45:45] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: but I imagine each season is enterable
[06:45:50] <cybereal> I just wouldn't try to come in in the middle
[06:45:51] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[06:46:12] <pr3d4t0r> Ah!
[06:46:13] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: actually, the last time I saw an episode they summarized all backstory at the beginning
[06:46:14] <pr3d4t0r> Foiund it.
[06:46:17] <pr3d4t0r> Thanks.
[06:46:24] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: Thanks, the UI is a bit konfusing.
[06:46:33] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: This is good for my research.
[06:46:35] <pr3d4t0r> Cheers.
[06:46:40] * pr3d4t0r goes back to screwing with iTunes.
[06:47:57] <mohadib> get the behind be pr3d4t0r
[06:49:39] <[GT]Kane> do you know what you get when you cross a donkey with a onion?
[06:49:46] <delvinj> hmm
[06:49:50] <dibblego> [GT]Kane
[06:50:05] <cybereal> [GT]Kane: smelly ass
[06:50:17] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r
[06:50:20] *** [GT]Kane was kicked by pr3d4t0r (pr3d4t0r)
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[06:50:36] <mohadib> hah
[06:50:47] <[GT]Kane> I never even got to finish :(
[06:50:53] <cybereal> [GT]Kane: so finish
[06:50:58] <pr3d4t0r> [GT]Kane: My grandma's friends would smack her for telling that old joke when she was little.
[06:50:59] <mohadib> [GT]Kane: dont feed the pr3d4t0r please
[06:51:00] <[GT]Kane> no he will ban me ;)
[06:51:12] <pr3d4t0r> [GT]Kane: I may just quiet you down :)
[06:51:22] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[06:51:24] <[GT]Kane> can i atlest finish it :P?
[06:51:25] <cybereal> but inquiring minds need to know
[06:51:36] <cybereal> [GT]Kane: put the answer in java form
[06:51:41] * pr3d4t0r goes back to downloading "Desperate Housewives"
[06:52:01] <[GT]Kane> I dont even have java setup yet afk lol
[06:52:11] <mohadib> fine work
[06:52:11] <cybereal> [GT]Kane: you don't know java?
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[06:54:22] <cybereal> I need to update my grandma's computer form WinME... stupid OS can't run Google Talk
[06:54:25] <cybereal> er from
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[06:59:26] * [GT]Kane pokes pr3d4t0r to see if hes awake.
[07:00:45] <mohadib> [GT]Kane: you get pr3d4t0r attetion by flooding him in a pm
[07:01:08] <[GT]Kane> lol
[07:01:11] <cHaoTiCa> :)
[07:01:18] <[GT]Kane> you really hate me don't you :P
[07:01:42] <[GT]Kane> I got a error
[07:01:42] <[GT]Kane> http://pastebin.ca/25367
[07:01:46] <mohadib> just kidding :p
[07:01:46] <JustinTArthur> Hmm, in Swing, how do I create a JFrame that will halt code execution when I show it, and then continue afterwards. I guess have it act like a dialog.
[07:02:09] <dibblego> you don't
[07:02:13] <mohadib> JDialog?  but it wont stop any thread but the edt
[07:02:18] <dibblego> or if you insist, use Thread.join();
[07:02:26] <JustinTArthur> edt?
[07:02:33] <mohadib> ~edt
[07:02:33] <dibblego> sounds like another..
[07:02:34] <javabot> mohadib, edt is Event Dispatch Thread, the thread that drives the swing gui. See http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/misc/threads.html for a tutorial on swing and threads
[07:02:40] <dibblego> I was about to say that
[07:02:51] <mohadib> your getting slow dibbl
[07:02:56] <mohadib> you're
[07:02:56] <dibblego> "it's not multi-threaded, just a swing application"
[07:02:58] <mohadib> ...
[07:03:04] <dibblego> you're getting better at spelling :)
[07:03:05] <JustinTArthur> Hmm
[07:03:13] <vinse> no u r
[07:03:14] <mohadib> dibblego: hahha good one
[07:03:33] <[GT]Kane> omg
[07:03:41] <[GT]Kane> am I missing all this applications: http://pastebin.ca/25367
[07:03:47] <Chmmr> if it behaves exactly like jdialog, then shouldn't it be actually the jdialog?
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[07:04:06] <mohadib> Chmmr: one would think
[07:04:16] * [GT]Kane crys
[07:04:18] <JustinTArthur> Ok, let's say I use JDialog. So if I want to have my application consisting of a dialog with some settings the user sets, followed by doing something based on those settings, what's the best approach for doing this?
[07:05:07] <[GT]Kane> wtf
[07:05:13] <mohadib> heh
[07:05:16] <[GT]Kane> there java already on my server
[07:05:25] <[GT]Kane> Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.5.0_04-b05)
[07:05:25] <[GT]Kane> Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 1.5.0_04-b05, mixed mode)
[07:05:29] <dibblego> [GT]Kane: do we need a running commentary?
[07:05:36] <cybereal> [GT]Kane: it just looks like your rpm db is empty
[07:05:37] <mohadib> JustinTArthur: im gonna have to say 42 on that one
[07:05:42] <Chmmr> afaik, jdialog do not stop any threads, it's just stop delivering events to other components
[07:05:53] <dibblego> ~tell [GT]Kane about install
[07:05:53] <javabot> [GT]Kane, install is http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/install.html
[07:05:58] <JustinTArthur> hmm. o_o
[07:06:07] <[GT]Kane> it's already installed though lol
[07:06:10] <mohadib> Chmmr: it stops the EDT
[07:06:12] <dibblego> clearly not
[07:06:13] <[GT]Kane> I typed java -version lol
[07:06:24] <dibblego> then move on
[07:06:35] * pr3d4t0r wonders where the trolls are tonight.
[07:06:36] <[GT]Kane> cya mysql channal time
[07:06:37] <[GT]Kane> :D
[07:06:48] <mohadib> \0/
[07:07:02] * pr3d4t0r thinks tonight's the night when God unleashes the asshats in ##java.
[07:07:10] <mohadib> hahha
[07:07:18] <cHaoTiCa> heh
[07:07:20] * ijoyce wanders in
[07:07:27] * mohadib watches the pot call the kettel black
[07:07:30] * mohadib runs
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[07:07:53] <Chmmr> mohadib, then in what thread events are processed for the jdialog? it creates new thread instead?
[07:08:37] <mohadib> good point
[07:08:56] <dibblego> it doesn't stop the EDT
[07:09:06] <dibblego> it's simply modal optionally
[07:09:11] <mohadib> right
[07:09:21] <dibblego> not that I think good ol' JustinTArthur has any idea what that means
[07:09:32] <mohadib> heh
[07:09:38] <JustinTArthur> I'm familiar with the modal concept.
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[07:10:08] <dibblego> referring to fundamental concept of threads and how they relate to swing
[07:11:09] <JustinTArthur> Ahh, indeed not.
[07:11:23] <Chmmr> JustinTArthur, typical dialog have action listener on "ok" button, performing some actions and then after that closing dialog
[07:11:53] <JustinTArthur> Ahh, that's probably the way I should be thinking. I've been spending way too much time in the wacky world of scripting languages.
[07:12:09] <mohadib> JustinTArthur: if all your actions take place in event handelrs (not on seperate threads) a Jdialog with modal turned on will work for you
[07:13:40] <dibblego> that action should be timely enough such that the ui appears to stay responsive; for example, no longer than a fraction of a second
[07:14:15] <[GT]Kane> root@gamingtown:~# java --server
[07:14:15] <[GT]Kane> Unrecognized option: --server
[07:14:15] <[GT]Kane> Could not create the Java virtual machine.
[07:14:36] <dibblego> you really don't rock
[07:14:46] <MacIver> only one dash?
[07:14:52] <dibblego> java -help
[07:15:16] <[GT]Kane> i did -server
[07:15:25] <[GT]Kane> and it popedup a massibe help spam lol
[07:15:41] <dibblego> yeah, that information stuff is deadly
[07:15:49] <[GT]Kane>                   The default VM is server.
[07:15:53] <[GT]Kane> makes no sense to me lol
[07:15:59] <[GT]Kane> is it like -server on lol
[07:16:32] <[GT]Kane> apprently not :D
[07:16:53] <dibblego> and so the chaos continues
[07:17:04] <mohadib> heh
[07:17:10] <[GT]Kane> you could tell me the command and I will run away :D
[07:17:11] <MacIver> [GT]Kane-- ;-)
[07:17:21] <dibblego> the command is /quit
[07:17:35] <[GT]Kane> not working here could you try on your side ^^
[07:17:46] <dibblego> /quit
[07:17:54] *** [GT]Kane has quit IRC
[07:17:59] <dibblego> yay
[07:18:14] <vinse> high comedy
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[07:18:41] <[GT]Kane> dont dare say anything lol
[07:18:51] <[GT]Kane> i put a space then /quit thought would not quit lol
[07:19:01] <Honk^away> /quit
[07:19:09] <[GT]Kane> \quit
[07:19:12] <Honk^away> ./quit
[07:19:15] <[GT]Kane> close enough lol
[07:19:18] <dibblego> you need to use 2 or more spaces for most clients
[07:19:21] <Honk^away> that's the normal escape sequence for irc commands ;)
[07:20:01] <ricky_clarkson> !seen NiteshP
[07:20:03] <Drone> I've never seen niteshp talk in ##java.
[07:20:07] <slava> /look, no space
[07:20:13] <slava> /join #kiddiepr0n
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[07:20:56] <mohadib> ?
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[07:21:32] <[GT]Kane> slava you like the Op on that channal :P
[07:21:52] <mohadib> [GT]Kane: hahha
[07:21:54] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r
[07:22:10] *** pr3d4t0r sets mode: +b *!*n=kane@70.27.13.*
[07:22:11] *** [GT]Kane was kicked by pr3d4t0r (Good night.  Come back tomorrow when you're sober.)
[07:22:16] <mohadib> haha
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[07:22:26] <dibblego> even better
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[07:23:31] * ijoyce slowly puts down his beer
[07:24:25] <mohadib> heh
[07:24:32] <mohadib> lol
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[07:26:45] * ricky_clarkson puts down the armadillo.
[07:27:11] *** pr3d4t0r sets mode: -b *!*n=kane@70.27.13.*
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[07:27:58] <mohadib> ricky_clarkson: sicko
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[07:30:29] <[GT]Kane> man I hard crashed
[07:30:57] <pchapman> LOLROF
[07:31:10] <ricky_clarkson> ~irc ok
[07:31:11] <javabot> hehe ok hehe!!!111!!!!111oneone
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[07:35:33] <Bevin> hi
[07:36:39] <ricky_clarkson> *wiggle*
[07:36:54] <jwormy> anyone know of a tool i can use to 'mouseover' a color and it give me the colorcode?
[07:37:23] <dibblego> ColorFinder
[07:37:32] <ricky_clarkson> ~tel jwormy about javadoc Robot
[07:37:33] <javabot> I guess the factoid 'absolutelayout' might be appropriate:
[07:37:35] <javabot> Oh, c'mon, use other layouts, they're better, but if you insist: http://lavender.cime.net/~ricky/tmp/AbsoluteLayout.java
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[07:37:44] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell jwormy about javadoc Robot
[07:37:44] <javabot> jwormy, please see java.awt.Robot: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/awt/Robot.html
[07:37:55] <jwormy> dibblego, thanks
[07:38:28] <ricky_clarkson> ~tel $1 is <reply>Did you mean tell $1?
[07:38:29] <javabot> Okay, ricky_clarkson.
[07:38:31] <ricky_clarkson> ~tel jwormy about javadoc Robot
[07:38:32] <javabot> Did you mean tell jwormy about javadoc Robot?
[07:39:04] <ricky_clarkson> Can't actually redirect autoatically there.
[07:39:31] <ricky_clarkson> !s/oa/oma/
[07:39:32] <Drone> ricky_clarkson: Can't actually redirect automatically there.
[07:39:41] <ricky_clarkson> Yes, I know.
[07:40:32] <pchapman> The hibernate channel is dead.  Does anyone know a good online document to learn how to use 5.0 annotations && hibernate?  The reference documentation is slim on this topic
[07:40:50] <dibblego> what's wrong with the Hibernate Annotations document?
[07:41:11] <ijoyce> pchapman, wait for the new HIA version, or see the caveat emptor example...
[07:41:16] <pchapman> Hmm.  I guess I missed that.  I was looking in the O/R Mapping document.
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[07:41:38] <pchapman> ijoyce, So xdoclet is still the recommended way?
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[07:42:18] <ijoyce> pchapman, I do it all manually :P
[07:42:32] <dibblego> ew ew ew
[07:42:36] <ijoyce> pchapman, i'm dumb like that. that and i use 1.4 still
[07:42:56] <pchapman> ijoyce, I have been too; creating xml docs.  But I thought I'd look into annotations.
[07:43:20] <ijoyce> pchapman, never used them, so I have no advice/opinion
[07:43:39] <dibblego> annotations > xdoclet
[07:43:59] <slava> xdoclet is the worst idea ever
[07:44:50] <ijoyce> i haven't bought into the whole annotation thing yet...
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[07:45:48] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: can you make Drone say something, like javabot's ~say?
[07:45:52] <cybereal> !say banan
[07:45:57] * cybereal slaps a large trout around a bit with Drone
[07:46:06] <ricky_clarkson> cybereal: Not anymore.
[07:49:04] <dibblego> La base de datos no se puede crear ni abrir poque el sistema operativo ha denegado el permiso
[07:49:07] <dibblego> what does that mean?
[07:49:56] <ricky_clarkson> The database cannot create any 'abrir' because the OS has denied permission.
[07:50:03] <ricky_clarkson> I don't know abrir.
[07:50:09] <dibblego> ok thanks
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[07:58:04] <Tuxiscool> I've been looking, but haven't been able to find information about local static variables. What properties do they have?
[07:58:30] <dibblego> they cause compile-time errors
[07:58:52] <Tuxiscool> Hah
[07:58:57] <Tuxiscool> Ok then.
[07:59:23] <mohadib> wtf .. you cant add any kind of listener to a ImageIcon?
[08:00:39] <Chmmr> what kind of listener do you want?
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[08:00:51] <Tuxiscool> dibblego: A university test implies that you can have them.
[08:00:54] <mohadib> an action or a mouse listener
[08:01:01] <dibblego> Tuxiscool: why doesn't that surprise me?
[08:01:39] <Tuxiscool> dibblego: Because you have a general opinion that tertiary education is a waste of time?
[08:02:19] <dibblego> Tuxiscool: not exactly a waste of time, but often misconstrued as having some kind of relationship to the truth
[08:03:13] <dibblego> I'm a university lecturer after all
[08:03:40] <Tuxiscool> Ah.
[08:04:13] <Tuxiscool> I corrected my lecturer a few days ago, perhaps that wasn't the best idea.
[08:04:14] <Chmmr> mohadib, these listeners can only be added to Component or its subclasses. put ImageIcon in JLabel or JButton
[08:04:36] <mohadib> Chmmr: well , im using it for the ctor of JTabbedPane
[08:04:37] <dibblego> typically, it's not; most academics are egotistic fucktards who tell you things like Java supports static locals
[08:04:53] <mohadib> it takes an icon , i was trying to make a close button for each tab
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[08:05:59] <pr3d4t0r> ::yawn::
[08:06:26] <[GT]Kane> nice -n -2 java -Xms1024m -Xmx1024m
[08:06:32] <[GT]Kane> that the set memory?
[08:10:43] <Chmmr> mohadib, it seems it's not possible... i heard what in mustang any component can be set as tab header
[08:10:48] <pr3d4t0r> Those who can, become programmers.
[08:10:56] <pr3d4t0r> Those who can't become teachers.
[08:11:03] <pr3d4t0r> Those who can't teach become QA engineers.
[08:11:42] <ijoyce> Those who can't become managers
[08:12:10] <ijoyce> Those who can't become a pain in my ass
[08:12:15] <mohadib> Chmmr: ty , i'm looking at this now http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-09-2004/jw-0906-tabbedpane.html
[08:15:13] <Chmmr> mohadib, well, only through look&feel modification...
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[08:29:49] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: You missed the afternoon entertainment.
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[08:30:06] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: The chief architect for Java at Sun visited us today and gave a one-hour presentation.
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[08:30:57] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: No surprises but they confirmed that some of the screwy things in the implementation of Java 5 (and next Mustang and Dolphin) are there by design.
[08:32:03] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Very sharp guys; they confirmed that they did what they did because of compatibility issues, not because they didn't want to do the Right Thing.
[08:34:09] <mohadib> nice
[08:34:13] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Yeah.
[08:34:25] <mohadib> anything that comes to mind?
[08:34:35] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: We had five hours of Sun presentations.  I attended the first three hours.
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[08:34:41] <mohadib> like , somthing that they did for compatability?
[08:34:55] <mohadib> that could be confused for laziness etc?
[08:34:56] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: The way they went about implementing the language features of Java 5.
[08:35:20] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: They're still b0rk'd but they didn't break binary compatibility for pre-existing code.
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[08:35:30] <mohadib> ahh
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[08:39:01] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: so the java guys come talk for free? Or did the company have to pay them?.
[08:39:04] <pavithran> what is "java " is it coffe cup ?
[08:39:11] <mohadib> ?
[08:39:24] <mohadib> ~tell pavithran about first cup
[08:39:25] <javabot> pavithran, A friendly web page to get you started with Java programming: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/getStarted/cupojava/
[08:39:28] <mohadib> ?
[08:39:38] <mohadib> java is a island :)
[08:40:00] <JustinTArthur> And a coffee named after the island. :P
[08:41:04] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: For free.
[08:41:13] <mohadib> pavithran: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_programming_language
[08:41:15] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: nice
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[08:41:56] <newm4n> java is an island in indonesia that produces lots of dry cofee beans.
[08:41:57] <pavithran> c'mon I am programming in java since 2000
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[08:42:10] <mohadib> oh
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[08:42:46] <newm4n> AFAIK, java island is the second larges cofee beans exporter after brazil.
[08:42:48] <pr3d4t0r> pavithran: And it took you five years to ask, "Why Java?"
[08:43:01] <pr3d4t0r> javabot: newm4n++
[08:43:02] <javabot> newm4n has a karma level of 2, pr3d4t0r
[08:43:22] <pavithran> not why java ... why that name and that cup ??????
[08:43:37] * newm4n have no idea
[08:44:05] <mohadib> pavithran: hehe , you thought the bean facination was for fun?
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[08:46:23] <mohadib> it shocks me to see how hard it is to have a tabbedpane with close buttons for each tab
[08:46:54] <dibblego> what's the hard bit?
[08:47:05] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Dude, because a very smart woman named Kim Polese realized that OAK was 1. too nerdy; 2. too stodgy as a marketing name.
[08:47:17] <pr3d4t0r> pavithran: Dude, because a very smart woman named Kim Polese realized that OAK was 1. too nerdy; 2. too stodgy as a marketing name.
[08:47:21] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Ignore :)
[08:47:39] <mohadib> you have to draw it yourself and use x and y to get the postion of the mouse click and do the math
[08:47:48] <dibblego> is that hard?
[08:47:53] <mohadib> i just thought it would be lass hassale
[08:47:58] <mohadib> not hard , just a pita
[08:48:19] <mohadib> tabbed panes with close buttons is nothing new ... seems it would be more supported
[08:48:35] <dibblego> why not simply write it and that's it?
[08:48:49] <mohadib> i could
[08:48:55] <dibblego> I can think of many things that should be in the core API before closable tabbed panes
[08:49:24] <mohadib> sure , that does not make up for the lack of a close button
[08:49:36] <mohadib> or an option to add a mouse listener to a tab
[08:49:49] <mohadib> you can add a mouse listener to the whole tabbedpane
[08:50:08] <dibblego> more specifically, why swing is so broken that you can't easily add these things yourself
[08:50:16] * mohadib nods
[08:50:51] <dibblego> starts with 'fuck' and ends with 'tards'
[08:50:53] <dibblego> that's why
[08:51:03] <mohadib> if they would just use a JLabel instead of a icon all would be well
[08:51:34] <dibblego> if they used interfaces and symbitiotism on their operations, all would be perfect
[08:51:50] <mohadib> well..
[08:51:59] <mohadib> the interfaces woud have to be designed well
[08:52:01] <dibblego> then you could just add your own implementation at that level of abstraction and be done
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[08:52:10] <dibblego> yes, symbiotic operations
[08:52:28] <mohadib> right , JTabbedPane has an private innerclass to do its work
[08:52:30] <dibblego> unlike the kludge that currently exists
[08:52:46] <mohadib> swing does not even let you set that or get in there as mess around easily
[08:53:00] <dibblego> so write it all yourself
[08:53:04] <mohadib> heh
[08:53:14] <dibblego> you're still tied to the brokenness though
[08:53:20] <dibblego> since Java implies it
[08:53:25] <mohadib> i got better things to do ..
[08:53:27] <mohadib> yep
[08:53:55] <dibblego> making a square wheel round is not the best thing to do?
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[08:54:36] <mohadib> overall im happy with swing , yet it is impossible (for me anyway) to make a swing app with making any UI compromises
[08:54:52] <mohadib> without
[08:54:57] <mohadib> s/with/without/
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[08:57:24] <Chmmr> http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/J2SE/Desktop/mustang/ - "... Feature: Ability to use arbitrary components as the tabs of a JTabbedPane ..."
[08:57:33] <mohadib> nice
[08:57:53] <pr3d4t0r> Chmmr: The only truly fucked up thing I heard today was XML embedded in *Java* code.
[08:57:53] <Chmmr> Bug ID: 4499556
[08:58:18] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: why would they do that?
[08:58:30] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Because some dumbass marketing guy thought it was important?
[08:58:46] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: I don't recall the exact syntax but it was something like:
[08:59:00] <Chmmr> weird, like as XML itself...
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[08:59:41] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: String user = "Joe Blow"; XMLDocument doc = <address_book><address><name> { user } </name></address><address_book>;
[08:59:58] <ijoyce> blarg
[09:00:04] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: It was fucking insane.  About 20 of us groaned and I almost asked "what are you guys smoking?"
[09:00:10] <mohadib> haha
[09:00:16] <Java_The_Hutt> Question: When i set a background color for a Panel, it first paints as a i requested then repaints to the gray background. So i can not change background panel permanently. Why ?
[09:00:30] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: He'd qualified that as very far in the future (Dolphin isn't scheduled to happen until mid-2008).
[09:00:44] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: So I held back.  I'd been trolling the guy for an hour anyway.
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[09:01:07] <mohadib> Java_The_Hutt: you sure you are not adding 2 panels or something strange
[09:01:17] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: haha
[09:01:22] <Java_The_Hutt> mohadib, yes
[09:01:27] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: did you give them a hardtime
[09:01:37] <mohadib> Java_The_Hutt: paste a test case to the bin
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[09:02:04] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: A little bit.
[09:02:22] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Overall it was a very interesting presentation.
[09:02:38] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: I do like trolling vendors, especially after the conference last week.
[09:02:45] <rohitsz> hello, i want to add a mouseListener to a GeneralPath object. how to do it?
[09:04:00] <Chmmr> nohow. add listener to component on which you draw
[09:06:49] <heanol> http://pastebin.com/391993
[09:06:57] <heanol> that code is not thread safe right?
[09:07:16] <rohitsz> yes.. but when adding the listener to GeneralPath it gives an error while compiling, the javadoc spec do not list that listener's can be added..!
[09:07:20] <mohadib> no
[09:07:36] <rohitsz> i'll just see the code..
[09:07:36] <heanol> in theory, it could put several objects with the same id in the table, right?
[09:07:46] <mohadib> heanol: the put operation is not thread safe
[09:07:46] <Java_The_Hutt> mohadib, http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8313
[09:08:01] <Java_The_Hutt> simply doesn't work
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[09:08:11] <heanol> mohadib, Hashtable is synchronized so that part should be ok
[09:08:42] <heanol> mohadib, i mean the id "generator" part.. what if two threads increased the currentId at the same time
[09:08:49] <mohadib> oh , i would use concurenthashmap or some thing else , hastable is not used much
[09:08:58] <heanol> yeah, thats true
[09:09:03] <heanol> but nevermind that.. :)
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[09:09:31] <mohadib> heanol: use a synchronized block
[09:09:33] <ricky_clarkson> Java_The_Hutt: How does it not work?
[09:09:53] <heanol> i was thinking something like.. thread1 executes currentIdCount++, thread2 executes currentIdCount++, thread1 executes  Long id = new Long(currentIdCount).. it would get the same id as thread2
[09:09:59] <heanol> mohadib, yeah. i was just making sure
[09:10:04] <Java_The_Hutt> ricky_clarkson, it paints the frame to blue for half second then, it paints it back to gray
[09:10:06] <heanol> looking at someone elses code :)
[09:10:08] <ricky_clarkson> Java_The_Hutt: Ever heard of a content pane?
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[09:10:45] <Java_The_Hutt> ricky_clarkson, doesn't matter besides after java 1.5 content panes were useless as far as i know
[09:11:00] <ricky_clarkson> Java_The_Hutt: That's bullshit.
[09:11:27] <mohadib> you dont have to do getContentPane().add() anymore in 1.5
[09:11:42] <rohitsz> just put my unsuccessful code here :http://pastebin.com/391996
[09:12:36] <ricky_clarkson> Why would you add a mouse listener to something that isn't visible.
[09:12:43] <mohadib> hwh
[09:12:46] <ricky_clarkson> ?
[09:12:55] <mohadib> Chmmr told him as much already
[09:13:10] <rohitsz> this is just testing part... i have i displayed else where..
[09:13:11] <mohadib> 01:03 < Chmmr> nohow. add listener to component on which you draw
[09:13:21] <rohitsz> i just want to test adding the listener..
[09:13:27] <mohadib> rohitsz: you cant click what you cant see
[09:13:30] <Java_The_Hutt> mohadib, besides it works when i  just modify the line to this.getContentPane.setBackground(Color.Blue)
[09:13:39] <mohadib> ok
[09:13:42] <Java_The_Hutt> there's a paranthesis
[09:13:50] <Java_The_Hutt> so how do you expain that
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[09:13:56] <Java_The_Hutt> explain
[09:13:58] <mohadib> i dont
[09:14:09] <rohitsz> atleast it should comppile, coz after reading the javadoc, i just doubted, whether this would compile or not...
[09:14:29] <Java_The_Hutt> i mean , is getContentPane() still functional or not for anything ?
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[09:14:49] <mohadib> i use it out of habbit
[09:15:12] <mohadib> i just noticed that you dont have to use it now ... at least when adding components
[09:15:12] <Java_The_Hutt> but when i use it ,setBackground works correctly, when not, it does not
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[09:15:38] <Java_The_Hutt> hold on
[09:15:41] <TTT> hi, does anyone here use Jakarta JCS for caching? is it any good?
[09:16:39] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Ping...
[09:17:02] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: Sorry about the lag; I'm moving a 128 MB presentation to my workstation at the office.
[09:17:14] <Chmmr> Java_The_Hutt, and it always will be functional
[09:17:15] <Chmmr> Java_The_Hutt, another way: in your original code, add: ((JComponent)getContentPane()).setOpaque(false);
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[09:19:06] <Java_The_Hutt> Chmmr, oh ok, but what about the things people say that you dont have to use getConentPane after JDK 1.5 ?
[09:19:28] <Java_The_Hutt> it is only for adding ?
[09:19:35] <pr3d4t0r> Java_The_Hutt: That's only for adding.
[09:19:40] <Java_The_Hutt> o i c
[09:20:07] <Java_The_Hutt> thx a lot, another satisfied IRC user, lol
[09:20:18] <pr3d4t0r> Java_The_Hutt: We're here to serve.
[09:20:32] <pr3d4t0r> Java_The_Hutt: Now go code something.  Apply the new knowledge or you'll forget it.
[09:21:01] <Java_The_Hutt> i don't think so, i had a lot of trouble with that
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[09:21:08] <heanol> mohadib, http://pastebin.com/392000 that should make it safe, right?
[09:21:34] <rohitsz> a better code that displays too : http://pastebin.com/391999
[09:21:53] <rohitsz> still i doubt if i can add a listener to GeneralPath
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[09:22:33] <terence_> hi
[09:22:42] <mohadib> heanol: i dont think so
[09:22:52] <heanol> mohadib, hrm
[09:23:09] <mohadib> heanol: you are doing two things ... i dont think it would happen automicly
[09:23:21] <mohadib> atomicly?
[09:23:23] <mohadib> :\
[09:23:25] <heanol> yeah, atomicly
[09:23:28] <Chmmr> GeneralPath is not visual component, it's just geometric data
[09:23:43] <terence_> in a weighted tree, what is the most efficient way to save the weights. I mean especially later if i have to reset all weights to zero for a new run!
[09:23:48] <rohitsz> but i can see it when i draw it like this..
[09:24:04] <mohadib> heanol: syncronize he wole method ... or use a lock
[09:24:09] <mohadib> whole
[09:24:12] <rohitsz> line 24 at http://pastebin.com/391999       g2d.draw(path[segNum]);
[09:24:27] <rohitsz> it works for displaying...
[09:24:41] <heanol> mohadib, yes thats best method probably.. im just curious if it'd work with Long id = new Long(currentId++);
[09:24:50] <rohitsz> but i can not extend it either.. so can not add a listener thru a different class
[09:24:56] <heanol> or well.. s/work/be safe/
[09:25:26] <mohadib> heanol: you could synchronize on the map , then put Long id = new Long(currentIdCount++) and objectTable.put(id, objectTable); in the syncronized block
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[09:25:44] <mohadib> but that locks the map longer that it needs to be
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[09:26:59] <heanol> mohadib, yes. i should lock on the currentIdCount
[09:27:08] <heanol> while increasing it and getting the value
[09:27:08] <pr3d4t0r> Bevin: /me smacks mohadib
[09:27:09] <mohadib> you cant lock on an int
[09:27:16] <heanol> mohadib, i could make it an object
[09:27:23] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Long id = ++currentIDCount;
[09:27:36] <mohadib> sure but you cant lock on a primitve
[09:27:45] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: You don't *have* to.
[09:27:59] <mohadib> the value he is worried about is a primitve
[09:28:01] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Updates to primitives other than long and double are atomic.
[09:28:16] <mohadib> yes , but the next action could be preimpted
[09:28:19] <heanol> pr3d4t0r, Long id = new Long(currentIdCount++); would work?
[09:28:21] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: long and double aren't atomic; otherwise you don't need to worry about collisions.
[09:28:27] <mohadib> and he needs the value to saty the same
[09:28:31] <pr3d4t0r> heanol: Yeah, but that's a fugly way of doing it.
[09:28:34] <mohadib> through multiple actions
[09:28:49] <pr3d4t0r> heanol: Long id = currentIDCount++; is all you need.
[09:29:10] <heanol> pr3d4t0r, in 1.5 at least? :)
[09:29:14] <mohadib> he is doing at least 2 actions there one of wich couls get preimted... no?
[09:29:25] <mohadib> the cast
[09:29:28] <mohadib> the ++
[09:29:29] <pr3d4t0r> heanol: Yeah.  What, are you still stuck in 2001 using 1.4?
[09:29:36] <heanol> naw
[09:29:40] <mohadib> hah
[09:29:46] <heanol> we just migrated though so i'm not used to it.
[09:30:18] <mohadib> heanol: synchronize the whole method
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[09:30:46] <heanol> mohadib, the whole method is *alot* more code so that isn ot an option ;-)
[09:31:06] <mohadib> ok create a lock object
[09:31:34] <heanol> so pr3d4t0r is wrong?
[09:31:44] <mohadib> i didnt say that
[09:31:48] <pr3d4t0r> heanol: pr3d4t0r is *never* wrong.  Remember that.
[09:31:52] <heanol> ;)
[09:31:52] <mohadib> hehe
[09:31:56] * pr3d4t0r eyes heanol
[09:33:10] <mohadib> is autoboxing atmoic?
[09:33:25] <mohadib> atomic ...
[09:33:29] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Autoboxing happens at compile time and has nothing to do with threading.
[09:33:50] * mohadib nods
[09:33:53] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: But the internal conversions aren't atomic, so "no".
[09:34:14] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: private int nX = 41; Integer y = 68;
[09:34:21] <pr3d4t0r> nX++ <-- atomic;
[09:34:30] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: y++; <-- not atomic
[09:34:54] <mohadib> Integer i = nx++ ?
[09:35:24] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Non-atomic; constructors aren't atomic.
[09:35:35] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Nor can they be synchronized.
[09:35:56] <heanol> so that would be unsafe for threading?
[09:36:03] <pr3d4t0r> heanol: Yup.
[09:36:09] <pr3d4t0r> heanol: Now would but *could*.
[09:36:19] <heanol> yeah.
[09:36:44] * rohitsz waits for help on how-to add a mouseListener to GeneralPath or some alternative.
[09:36:46] <heanol> so to be sure, a lock is needed?
[09:37:29] <pr3d4t0r> rohitsz: Dude, I'm about to give you a panda.
[09:37:47] <pr3d4t0r> rohitsz: What do you want to accomplish?  In your application, not with the GeneralPath.
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[09:38:01] <pr3d4t0r> heanol: It's hard to say.
[09:38:03] <Chmmr> so much words... synchronized (lock) { and so on } will works forever...
[09:38:05] <mohadib> ~panda
[09:38:05] <javabot> Check this out:  http://axelrod5.tripod.com/funny/thumbnails/400x300/panda_20makes_20more_20sense.jpg
[09:38:06] <pr3d4t0r> heanol: Depends on your context.
[09:38:15] <mohadib> hahaha
[09:38:20] <mohadib> lol
[09:38:31] <mohadib> thats great
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[09:39:28] <rohitsz> here goes:.. i have 1000+ sements made up of different (X,Y). after displaying them, i need to edit them. say add/remove points and if possible, shift the current segment here-n-there.... so GeneralPath suited the best with methods like moveTo() and lineTo(), but i am unable to catch events.
[09:40:02] <rohitsz> sorry for the long post.
[09:40:21] <mohadib> rohitsz: how do you display them?
[09:40:49] <rohitsz> the graphics2D class's method draw().
[09:41:07] <mohadib> you're gonna have to do the math
[09:41:23] <mohadib> add a mouse listener to the component you are drawing on
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[09:41:32] <mohadib> the getX abd Y from the event
[09:41:38] <mohadib> etc...
[09:42:00] <rohitsz> that's not cool if i may say.. i want to have the segment do it's editing..
[09:42:33] <rohitsz> also if i want to add more segments.. then my code will be hard to manage..
[09:42:38] <pr3d4t0r> rohitsz: It's not gonna happen.
[09:42:47] <pr3d4t0r> rohitsz: You *could* write your own component that does that.
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[09:44:32] <rohitsz> yes.. but after seeing the GeneralPath, i thought i would not have to!
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[09:44:56] <rohitsz> it does everything except listen to mouseClicks!
[09:45:15] <ramza3> nothing like going through DUI training day roadblock when you have been drinking
[09:45:18] * pr3d4t0r smacks rohitsz
[09:45:21] <mohadib> heh
[09:45:36] <ramza3> lucky I can only afford 2 drinks
[09:45:38] * rohitsz humbly takes the beating!
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[09:46:36] <ramza3> anyway...
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[09:46:50] <rohitsz> ok, guys, thanks for the help...
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[09:47:10] <mohadib> heh
[09:47:32] <pr3d4t0r> Good night, gang.
[09:47:33] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: how can i add a mouselistener to an ArrayList?
[09:47:37] <mohadib> g'night
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[09:47:43] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: With a BFH pattern.
[09:47:50] <mohadib> hehe , BFH?
[09:47:55] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Big Fucking Hammer.
[09:47:58] <mohadib> hehe
[09:48:06] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Nothing stands in the way of a BFH.
[09:48:46] <mohadib> i would think not
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[09:54:33] <bcml> how is a string with escape sequences stored in java? for example for a string "hi\n k"... is it stored 'h'+'i'+'\n'+' '+'k' or 'h'+'i'+'\'+'n'+' '+'k' ?
[09:55:14] <roots_> bcml: escape sequences are eliminated by the scanner
[09:55:22] <roots_> during tokenizing of the source code
[09:55:35] <roots_> which is the first thing that happens at compile time
[09:55:45] <roots_> compile time precedes runtime
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[09:56:23] <bcml> what if i create a dynamic string with an escape sequence
[09:56:39] <bcml> during runtime
[09:56:44] <roots_> man listen, what you specify inside "" are string literals
[09:57:30] <roots_> these literals are your building blocks but stored inside the classfiles as constants, so now the first thing that happens is that escape sequences are eliminated
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[09:58:12] <roots_> in java unicode overall escapes are eliminated first, even outside of string literals, but that is not relevant now
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[10:06:05] <EExtasEE> hi my lordz
[10:06:44] <EExtasEE> can someone tell me if this adress is accessible?
[10:06:45] <EExtasEE> http://192.168.1.64:8084/IntergicielJINI/
[10:08:13] <ijoyce> no
[10:09:39] <EExtasEE> can you try aigain please?
[10:10:51] <ijoyce> my internal network is 192.168.*
[10:10:58] <Rawplayer> rofl
[10:11:11] <timing> ijoyce: hey my girlfriends name is joyce
[10:11:33] <ijoyce> timing, that my last name
[10:11:47] <timing> ijoyce: cool, does it mean something?
[10:11:51] <timing> ijoyce: like enjoy ?
[10:12:00] <ijoyce> it's British
[10:12:11] <ijoyce> dunno it it means anything
[10:12:16] <timing> hmm
[10:12:54] <ijoyce> i've never been curious enough to look it up
[10:13:13] <Mazon> EExtasEE: 192.168 is a class B network, only allowed internally
[10:14:15] <Rawplayer> Mazon: you mean 192.168.1 is class C
[10:14:46] <Mazon> yes, but 192.168 is a B class network
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[10:15:04] <Mazon> ahh, I get your point - I think
[10:15:29] <ijoyce> EExtasEE, you'll want to forward all request on port 8084 on 194.158.117.84 to port 8084 on 192.168.1.64
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[10:20:26] <RaToN> re
[10:21:00] <RaToN> http://212.195.41.80:8084/IntergicielJINI/
[10:21:14] <RaToN> is it accessible(this is the last time i ask)
[10:22:15] <RaToN> allo?
[10:24:06] <cybereal> I'm getting nothing
[10:24:43] <RaToN> oops sorry
[10:25:06] <RaToN> and now?
[10:27:15] <Mazon> works fine
[10:27:38] <RaToN> thank you
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[10:33:31] <elvin|coder> good day. can anyone explain the relations of CLDC, MIDP and Personal Profile in 2jme for me, please?
[10:34:31] <elvin|coder> i mean, till today i thought there are CLDC and MIDP, whose different versions compose j2me. but today i was told there also is some Personal Profile thing...
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[10:39:05] <cybereal> elvin|coder: http://java.sun.com/ there is more than enough documentation for you there
[10:39:31] <Bowyakka> moreing folks
[10:39:34] <Bowyakka> *morning
[10:41:01] <elvin|coder> cybereal, i hoped to get some basic info just to know the direction. ofcourse i'm reading java.sun.com, you don't need to teach me to use docs. but if everything could be easily solved through reading documentation, there won't be any need in ##java channels...
[10:42:20] <Mazon> cldc < midp < personal
[10:43:10] <elvin|coder> thanks. that's the basics i was looking for :)
[10:45:48] <Mazon> but personal is semi dead I think
[10:47:44] <heanol> yes, it is.
[10:47:51] <heanol> personal is the same as an old version of jdk
[10:47:54] <heanol> i think 1.2 or 1.3
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[11:41:28] <Dandre> hello all
[11:41:44] <Dandre> Sorry for this very basic qustion:
[11:43:07] <Dandre> I want to change one method of a particular class in my application. How should I do tha w/o creating another source file an class for it?
[11:45:18] <elvin|coder> why do you need to create another source file? why cannot you change the first one?
[11:45:43] <TTT> Dandre: you want a new class with one method changed?
[11:45:50] <Dandre> Because it is not my class
[11:46:06] <Dandre> TTT: only one method change
[11:47:09] <TTT> Dandre: subclass it. Make NewClass extends OldClass
[11:47:22] <TTT> then make a method in new class with same name and same parameters
[11:47:30] <TTT> Dandre: i hope that method is not static?
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[11:48:05] <Dandre> But if I do that I need to put the new class in another source file...
[11:48:50] <linuxfreck> Dandre: why is that a problem?
[11:48:58] <Dandre> the long story:
[11:49:00] <Dandre> I use a class with a bug in it for my development. While waiting for it to be corrected, I want to overpass this methode with my new version.
[11:49:35] <Dandre> I'd prefer not to define a new class
[11:50:06] <elvin|coder> Dandre, you can "override" the class
[11:50:14] <elvin|coder> you should have its source though
[11:50:32] <elvin|coder> then you can put the fixed source it in your project
[11:50:58] <elvin|coder> and compile your project with classpath to your fixed version going earlier than the old one
[11:51:10] <elvin|coder> then your class will be used instead of buggy one
[11:51:19] <elvin|coder> dirty hack :)
[11:51:28] <Dandre> Ok I will try
[11:52:59] <TTT> elvin|coder: will that work? i don't think it will work if the classes are named the same
[11:53:03] <elvin|coder> Dandre, i was told about this hack some time ago from a reliable source, but didn't check it myself. so could you please say how it works when you check it?
[11:53:20] <elvin|coder> TTT, it's precisely for same named classes
[11:53:22] <Dandre> sure
[11:53:29] <TTT> elvin|coder: you make a class BlahBlah extends BlahBlah
[11:53:38] <TTT> you get a class that extends itself
[11:53:41] <elvin|coder> TTT, no, you didn't get it
[11:53:42] <TTT> instant compilation problem
[11:53:50] <elvin|coder> you _replace_ the source
[11:53:59] <elvin|coder> class BlahBlah {
[11:54:01] <elvin|coder> that's all
[11:54:09] <TTT> elvin|coder: that'd work
[11:54:23] <TTT> if it was me, i'd decompile the original with JAD and fix it there if it isn't obfuscated
[11:54:41] <TTT> if it's just 1 not-too-big method, hell, obfuscated would do too
[11:54:52] <aktinos> you can even override the jdk classes with -Xbootclasspath
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[11:56:45] <Dandre> How should I add sth to the classpath?
[11:58:40] <Dargaard> hello... I'm a beginner in JAVA... i have an "Uncaught java/lang/indexOutOfBounds/Exception" I know what the error does, my problem is locating that error in my program... Any tips on how to locate this error fast? I'm using Eclipse IDE... And it's an Wireless J2ME application (I also have trouble becouse debugger doesn't seem to work!) Please help!!! :(((
[12:00:29] <TTT> Dargaard: aren't there lines of code and names of java files with the exception?
[12:00:39] <TTT> do you print stack trace of the exception or catch it?
[12:00:44] <Dargaard> nope
[12:00:47] <TTT> exception.printStackTrace();
[12:00:49] <Dargaard> they aren't
[12:00:54] <TTT> how do you know which exception is there?
[12:01:08] <TTT> you just run main() ?
[12:01:11] <Dargaard> my program is filled with try catches :((((
[12:01:32] <Dargaard> when i run my application
[12:01:48] <Dargaard> it stops... and from Eclipse console
[12:01:51] <Dargaard> it appears
[12:01:58] <TTT> ok, what do your catches do?
[12:02:08] <TTT> catch (Exception e) { what here? }
[12:02:25] <Dargaard> i found the bloody exception
[12:02:30] <Dargaard> really bugged me
[12:02:32] <Dargaard> :)))
[12:03:49] <Dargaard> There are very annoying these "Uncaught exceptions" you have too look for them all over the code
[12:04:04] <Dargaard> Thank you all :)
[12:05:28] <elvin|coder> TTT, in j2me it's really hard to find a way to locate an exception throw place
[12:05:35] <TTT> um, all uncought exceptions get thrown from main() and printed with stack trace
[12:05:38] <TTT> j2me?
[12:05:41] <TTT> ah, /me bad
[12:05:42] <elvin|coder> yep
[12:05:54] <elvin|coder> "And it's an Wireless J2ME application"
[12:06:20] <elvin|coder> there are no string numbers in stack traces in j2me
[12:06:42] <elvin|coder> and, Dargaard, yes, debugger doesn't work from eclipseME :)
[12:07:04] <Dargaard> yep
[12:07:18] <Dargaard> what about the other IDE?
[12:07:22] <elvin|coder> hmmm
[12:07:24] <Dargaard> the one from Sun?
[12:07:29] <elvin|coder> there are some that work
[12:07:41] <Dargaard> Netbeans?
[12:07:44] <elvin|coder> yep
[12:07:50] <elvin|coder> netbeans works, they say
[12:07:51] <Dargaard> what about Netbeans? It works?
[12:07:56] <Dargaard> ok
[12:09:19] <Clackwell> debuggers are overrated
[12:09:38] <roots_> i debug my code still
[12:09:48] <Dandre> elvin|coder: I have not succed! certainly classpath problem...
[12:09:50] <roots_> not all, but a lot just for finding out things
[12:09:55] <elvin|coder> yeah they are
[12:10:01] <roots_> i learned coding by reading books, reading code and debugging
[12:10:06] <roots_> writing code is not part of learning how to code
[12:10:18] <roots_> well maybe it is, but i am not at that stage yet
[12:10:45] <Clackwell> they prevent you from over and over again checking your system design by being blinders, since they allow and motivate you to mindlessly step through your code, randomly finding the problem, if you are lucky.
[12:11:10] <roots_> it may encourage that for some people yes
[12:11:19] <Clackwell> as opposed to sitting down and thinking hard, then placing a few debug statements in a few well choosen places.
[12:12:06] <roots_> man i need a cross platform way of suspending the jvm
[12:12:10] <roots_> or all user threads
[12:12:15] <Clackwell> they called them crashes "guru meditation" on amiga-os for a reason, i believe ;)
[12:12:16] <roots_> selectively
[12:12:23] <roots_> a semaphore down would be nicest
[12:12:39] <roots_> well actually not, i will tag my client threads and suspend all others
[12:13:03] <elvin|coder> Clackwell, not totally correct. sometimes i spent days on sitting and thinking hard instead of spending half an hour of mindless stepping through the code to find a simple misprint.
[12:13:39] <roots_> i debug a lot
[12:13:43] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: that says more about your thinking abilities then you may might have wanted to give away.
[12:13:46] <roots_> especially other people's code
[12:13:50] <roots_> it just is practical
[12:14:01] <roots_> using dynamic expression evaluation, watches and so on
[12:14:05] <roots_> conditional breakpoints
[12:14:14] <roots_> you get some good productivity boost
[12:14:29] <elvin|coder> Clackwell, read once more: _a misprint_
[12:14:57] <roots_> Clackwell: anyhow, my agent is up and running now as a skeleton thing
[12:15:05] <roots_> i will run a huge gui app through it now and see what happens :)
[12:15:12] <Clackwell> well, studying code is part of my "sitting down and thinking real hard", but that wasn't obvious i guess. :)
[12:15:51] <Clackwell> roots_: your agent?
[12:16:12] <elvin|coder> Clackwell, and believe me, i say only what i want to say, hoping for understanding instead of meaningless sarcasm ;)
[12:16:54] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: just playing devil's advocate since i don't have a debugger for the stuff i am working with. ;) but, still i think that it's ok to go without.
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[12:17:30] <Clackwell> debugger envy
[12:17:58] <roots_> Clackwell: you dont have a debugger ?
[12:18:06] <roots_> jvms have remote debugging even
[12:18:11] <roots_> sun's jvm
[12:18:24] <roots_> and you can run all of it through gdb
[12:18:27] <roots_> i am just doing that
[12:18:36] <roots_> inside emacs, pretty slick
[12:18:59] <elvin|coder> Clackwell, the funny thing is, your words couple of minutes ago delayed me from saying in j2me development i don't use debugger too :)
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[12:19:34] <ricky_clarkson> pr3d4t0r: I was cycling when the lag happened, no worries.
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[12:20:00] <Clackwell> roots_: no debugger
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[12:25:34] <roots_> Clackwell: how come ?
[12:25:46] <roots_> what architecture ?
[12:26:16] <Clackwell> roots_: our own brew
[12:26:51] <ricky_clarkson> Clackwell:
[12:26:55] <ricky_clarkson> Lots of logging.
[12:27:03] <Clackwell> ricky_clarkson: yep
[12:27:33] <roots_> runing on what ?
[12:27:34] <roots_> your own cpu ?
[12:27:46] <ricky_clarkson> CPU?  We use an abacus.
[12:27:57] <ricky_clarkson> We invented it though.
[12:28:02] <roots_> some fat russian grandma is faster with an abacus than most cpus
[12:28:10] <Clackwell> roots_: os x, solaris, aix, windows, linux (used to work on macos too)
[12:28:24] <Goc> Any hints on how to solve this? I need to create a tread that only calls a simple method (setZoom). The problem I have, is that I need to supply a variable to this method (scale). But I really don't know how to get this working. scale is a local variable in the method that creates this thread.
[12:28:24] <Goc> x.invokeLater( new Runnable( ){ public void run( ){ SvgEditor.getCanvas().setZoom((float) scale); } } );
[12:29:03] <ricky_clarkson> Goc: Make it a separate class, not an anonymous inner class.
[12:29:23] <Clackwell> "but...but...that's so much work...and so ugly...!"
[12:29:39] * ricky_clarkson finds );}}); more ugly..
[12:29:50] <Clackwell> woah, odd smiley from ricky
[12:29:58] <ricky_clarkson> It was the end of Goc's code.
[12:30:34] * Dargaard if you think that's ugly... What about 2500 lines of code in the class that implements Midlet? :)))))))))
[12:30:51] * elvin|coder shocked
[12:30:56] <Dargaard> :))))))
[12:31:04] <elvin|coder> stop it or i'll have to kill myself
[12:31:11] <Dargaard> >:)
[12:31:25] <ricky_clarkson> ~irc grrr
[12:31:25] <javabot> rofl grrr lol!!!111!!!!111oneone
[12:31:28] <Goc> I actually tried that, but I couldn't get it to work. GUess I need to freshen up my old C++ Object Orienting skills. Been programming C# for a couple of years now, and it's just SO much simpler in cases like this. But simple isn't always best...
[12:31:35] <Clackwell> Dargaard: number of lines in a class are an irrelevant factor for me. i do mind lengthy methods though.
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[12:31:58] <Dargaard> Clackwell there are many methods...
[12:32:13] <Dargaard> didn't had the time to arrange the code
[12:32:19] <Dargaard> first i remove bugs
[12:32:23] <roots_> Goc: make scale final
[12:32:24] <Clackwell> Dargaard: why do you mind the number of methods in a class?
[12:32:24] <Dargaard> and than i arrageit
[12:32:26] <Dargaard> :)
[12:32:37] <roots_> or use  final float scale_ = scale; then you can access scale_ from your inner class
[12:32:39] <Clackwell> Dargaard: don't these methods belong to that class? if they belong there, why bother about their number?
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[12:32:43] <snow_ru> hi
[12:32:45] <roots_> anonymous inner class that is
[12:32:48] <Clackwell> oh no, him.
[12:32:48] <snow_ru> java has set , get ?
[12:32:49] <Dargaard> Clackwell Midlet shouldn't be so large
[12:32:55] <Clackwell> Dargaard: says who?
[12:32:56] <roots_> Clackwell: then you can debug with gdb
[12:33:14] <elvin|coder> Clackwell, it's a common way of things
[12:33:33] <elvin|coder> midlet is not the place to implement logic
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[12:33:48] <elvin|coder> it's a place to link your java code with mobile phone
[12:34:14] <elvin|coder> but i understand why they did it that way. optimization, heh.
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[12:34:43] <Dargaard> heh elvin|coder right
[12:34:43] <Clackwell> roots_: that would be like using gdb to debug the jvm, to debug your java code running in that jvm? is that practical?
[12:34:44] <Dargaard> :)
[12:35:01] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: what is a common way of things?
[12:35:20] <elvin|coder> [17:33:41] <elvin|coder> midlet is not the place to implement logic
[12:35:20] <elvin|coder> [17:33:56] <elvin|coder> it's a place to link your java code with mobile phone
[12:35:31] <Clackwell> i thought midlet == java program for and running on java mobile stuff.
[12:35:45] <Clackwell> now you say it isn't?
[12:35:49] <elvin|coder> midlet == class
[12:36:10] <Clackwell> so classes aren't the right place to put business logic, when it comes to java mobile?
[12:36:11] <elvin|coder> for certain purpose
[12:36:34] <snow_ru> ]java has set , get ?
[12:36:41] <Goc> roots: THe whole point of the scale-variable, is that it's... well... variable...
[12:37:03] <elvin|coder> Clackwell, gimme a minute to find the right words in the disctionary or accept a simple language without sarcasm, ok? :)
[12:37:13] <roots_> Clackwell: yes it can be practical
[12:37:48] <elvin|coder> simple: midlet is a class whose sole purpose is to link you business logic with your hardware
[12:38:06] <elvin|coder> and putting lots of logic in it _is_ ugly
[12:38:19] <elvin|coder> unless you really have a simple and neat application
[12:38:19] <Clackwell> roots_: well, i am happy with logging/tracing, so...it's the same with java, i don't see the advantage for my particular use cases to use one of the full fledged java IDEs. i don't feel like being f*cked in the ass all day long by some big, fat power tool. i rather keep it simple, even when it means a productivity impact.
[12:39:30] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: i don't understand what you are saying. are you saying midlets are a kind of driver? i thought midlets are java programs. are they not? if they are, why should i not solve whatever problem i feel like solving in them, without regard to their size?
[12:39:57] <Clackwell> if i want to write a little spreadsheet program as a midlet, should i or should i not? if not, why not?
[12:40:25] <Clackwell> because it will become too large? won't it run on many java mobile implementations? that would be a practical limitation that i could understand and acccept of course.
[12:40:36] <elvin|coder> Clackwell, yes they are. but you could also use bloody assembler to write your application, but you choose java though
[12:41:24] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: i don't understand how assembler relates to this.
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[12:41:59] <ricky_clarkson> elvin|coder: What's your question?
[12:42:02] <elvin|coder> well, look... design and style of code don't give you direct impact on your performance, right? but still people tend to prefer good design over bad one. why?
[12:42:32] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: is this still related to "do not use midlets with a lot of code, they aren't meant for that (?)"?
[12:42:40] <elvin|coder> ricky_clarkson, there is no question, there is a religious encounter right now
[12:42:50] <Clackwell> religion?
[12:42:51] <elvin|coder> Clackwell, yes it is
[12:43:03] <elvin|coder> i mean, yes it is related
[12:43:47] * Clackwell is hopelessly confused now and prefers to think of midlets as java programs for java mobile devices, and that size doesn't matter for them, except for the actual, practical limitations.
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[12:44:40] <elvin|coder> Clackwell, do you use classes at all or you prefer procedure-like style, with static main and other static members?
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[12:45:16] <Java_The_Hutt> Question: Anyone experience with HSQLDB ?
[12:46:33] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: i am not afraid of static members. i only use objects where it makes sense, not as a knee jerk reaction to always, under all circumstances avoid static members. can it be that there are some technical attributes attached to midlets that i should know about to understand your point?
[12:47:17] <elvin|coder> no it's not about technical side of the problem. still interested?
[12:47:35] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: definitely
[12:47:54] <ricky_clarkson> I avoid static members, but not as a definite rule.
[12:48:00] <elvin|coder> fine. it's about the readible code.
[12:48:34] <elvin|coder> i don't avoid static members, but that's not the thing i was trying to say that you should avoid them :)
[12:48:38] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: to help me out, can we use analogies to standard java? are midlets like a java application class, with a main method, etc.?
[12:48:55] <elvin|coder> Clackwell, well, i think they are like Applets
[12:48:59] <elvin|coder> i suppose
[12:49:08] * elvin|coder wrote his last applet long ago
[12:49:18] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: i was thinking about that analogy, but it fails, since applets are loaded from websites, typically.
[12:49:22] <Java_The_Hutt> Question: Anyone experience with HSQLDB ?
[12:49:37] <Java_The_Hutt> How can i create a new DB ?
[12:49:37] <Clackwell> Java_The_Hutt: consider a specific question
[12:49:44] <elvin|coder> Clackwell, in both cases you launch .jar file
[12:49:47] <Clackwell> Java_The_Hutt: oh, no clue
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[12:50:16] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: in case of applet you do not, per se. but lets leave that aside i guess
[12:50:33] <Java_The_Hutt> I don't understand, the documentation is not good enough
[12:50:44] <Clackwell> Java_The_Hutt: no explicit creation. you just specify the db name in the connection and start creating tables.
[12:50:44] <snow_ru> sorry
[12:50:48] <ricky_clarkson> I'm sat in a cafe, wishing people would move so I could plug the laptop in.
[12:50:53] <snow_ru> the arrayList can contains anything ?
[12:51:07] <Clackwell> snow_ru: only references
[12:51:10] <Java_The_Hutt> Clackwell, and it become persistant ?
[12:51:25] <snow_ru> Clackwell, its elements are objects ?
[12:51:28] <Clackwell> Java_The_Hutt: try it? it will write to a file called yourdbname.dat or something like that.
[12:51:31] <ricky_clarkson> snow_ru: A List can only contain references, and of those, only the ones it is declared to be able to contain.
[12:51:38] <ricky_clarkson> snow_ru: List list; can contain anything.
[12:51:42] <Clackwell> snow_ru: references, and references point to objects.
[12:51:51] <ricky_clarkson> snow_ru: List<String> stringList; can contain references to Strings.
[12:51:52] <ricky_clarkson> only
[12:52:09] <Java_The_Hutt> Clackwell, and can you explain this line    java -cp ../lib/hsqldb.jar org.hsqldb.Server -database.0 mydb -dbname.0 xdb  - given in the docs
[12:52:21] <Java_The_Hutt> i mean the arguments
[12:52:29] <snow_ru> List<ClassName> myList : can contains references to objects of ClassName ?
[12:52:59] <Clackwell> Java_The_Hutt: no clue.
[12:53:14] <Clackwell> oh no, he discovered generics ;|
[12:53:18] <Java_The_Hutt> what kind of documentation they prepared
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[12:54:11] <elvin|coder> Clackwell, fine. So let's imagine a huge application based on applet. usually you see the main class - Applet - simply attaching some MyForm or something to itself and all other things are dealt with by that very form or canvas or whatever. This, in my opinion, is used to take apart applet(j2me)-dependent code from common-java things. to take apart even visually. Because in the end it helps you (or another developer) to understand code better. As far as i u
[12:54:11] <Java_The_Hutt> Clackwell, where to specify db name, while initiating server ?
[12:54:24] <Clackwell> Java_The_Hutt: "The command line argument -? can be used to get a list of available arguments."
[12:54:39] <Java_The_Hutt> Clackwell, it doesn't give anything useful
[12:54:51] <Clackwell> Java_The_Hutt: pastebin its output
[12:55:39] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: truncated after "As far as i u", i don't understand what you said though.
[12:55:58] <elvin|coder>  As far as i understand, it was :)
[12:57:12] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: you are considering Applet, Midlet (or whatever actual class one extends, if any) to be shells, starting points, not to be filled with much code, claiming that it will be easier to understand to put it all in some other class?
[12:57:24] <elvin|coder> yep
[12:57:24] <Java_The_Hutt> Clackwell, http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8315
[12:58:16] <Clackwell> elvin|coder: i disagree with that. how many methods of applet do you typically overwrite/override anyway? init() and start(), right? why should two methods make your Applet class be much harder to understand? i suspect that the opposite is the case actually.
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[12:59:37] <elvin|coder> Clackwell, their only presence can confuse, sometimes. Not everyone, but still.
[13:01:40] <Clackwell> Java_The_Hutt: -database.0 mydb -dbname.0 xdb : database number 0 has the db internal name "mydb" (that's also how the actual file(s) it is comprised of may be called), and a java application/applet/etc. needs to or can also use the db name "xdb" when contacting the db server, to access the database with the internal name "mydb" (and the alias name "xdb") - without having tried any of this.
[13:02:37] <Java_The_Hutt> So basically how to create a new database named test ?
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[13:02:44] <Clackwell> Java_The_Hutt: consider not running hsqldb as a separate server process for now. try to use it in-process, with the jdbc URL having all the information.
[13:03:12] <elvin|coder> and ofcourse i'm speaking of applet-independent code. i don't appeal to removing everything except another-class-call from applet, but only applet-thingies code should remain.
[13:03:21] <Java_The_Hutt> Clackwell , excellent introduction : http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8316
[13:03:29] <Clackwell> Java_The_Hutt: just act as if the database is there already. as far as i recall hsqldb will notice the absence of the db files and just create them on the fly.
[13:03:55] <Java_The_Hutt> ok thank you
[13:04:02] <Java_The_Hutt> still their docs sucks
[13:05:53] <Clackwell> Java_The_Hutt: might want to give them feedback, or, better, write your own "quick start guide for hsqldb" and put it on your website.
[13:08:40] <Java_The_Hutt> Well, yeah i know what your talking about. Once i was complaining some stuff about linux, a guy told me to modify the kernel as i wish and distribute it. Well as a noob, it is not practical to write a guide. A feedback however may be an option
[13:08:47] <ricky_clarkson> hsqldb can be set to NOT create the tables on the fly, afaik.
[13:09:26] <ricky_clarkson> Java_The_Hutt: Surely a noob is best-placed to write a doc for noobs, researching as they go.  Of course, get a non-noob or 10 to examine it.
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[13:11:17] <CostiS> how can I get the ASCII code of a char variable
[13:12:31] <ricky_clarkson> CostiS: You already have it.
[13:12:36] <roots_> you can't
[13:12:39] <ricky_clarkson> A char is a number.
[13:12:46] <roots_> unless you found a way to pack 16 bits into 8 bits
[13:12:57] <roots_> and get the ascii standard changed worldwide
[13:12:57] <ricky_clarkson> roots_: As ASCII is a subset of Unicode you can.
[13:13:15] 
[13:14:23] 
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[13:15:44] <CostiS> ricky: thanks
[13:15:56] <CostiS> I'll check it out
[13:16:19] <ricky_clarkson> CostiS: Note that there are other characters in the world besides ASCII ones though.
[13:18:19] <CostiS> I know
[13:18:26] <CostiS> I need just plain ascii
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[13:23:07] <ricky_clarkson> roots_: Give me an umlauted i.
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[13:23:45] 
[13:23:45] 
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[13:24:32] <ricky_clarkson> Clackwell: Are you anti-German?
[13:26:30] <Clackwell> ricky_clarkson: it's cool to be, when you are german ;)
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[13:32:26] <ricky_clarkson> Does this sound about right?
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[13:33:06] <ricky_clarkson> A text adventure would be originally with a load of if statements, then would have got complicated when you introduced other features, e.g., an animated ball on the screen (ok, that wouldn't be text anymore, just an example).
[13:33:16] <ricky_clarkson> So people started using separate threads for shit like that.
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[13:33:41] <ricky_clarkson> Then threads becamse too complex due to deadlock, synchronisation, etc., so people started doing event-based programming.
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[13:37:32] <eeaaxx> anybody how to solve this problem, out-of-range datetime value, in MSSQL?
[13:38:39] <ricky_clarkson> eeaaxx: What date is out of range?
[13:38:58] <ricky_clarkson> 50th January 200F ?
[13:39:56] <eeaaxx> ricky_clarkson: 2005-10-13
[13:40:23] <ricky_clarkson> eeaaxx: That will depend on the date format.
[13:40:32] <ricky_clarkson> Americans might read that as the 10th day of the 13th month.
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[13:41:00] <ricky_clarkson> mm/dd/yyyy is a common US format, which makes no sense.
[13:42:00] <roots_> shillings and pence neither
[13:42:08] <roots_> or miles, feet, inches, yards
[13:42:14] <roots_> pounds ... get metric
[13:42:31] <ricky_clarkson> I like the pound.  I have a number of them in my pocket.
[13:42:40] <ricky_clarkson> Oh, and the pound went metric in the 1970s.
[13:42:44] <roots_> what was is like ?
[13:42:53] <ricky_clarkson> isisisis?
[13:42:55] <roots_> 9 pence a shilling, 7 shillings a pound ?
[13:42:58] <ricky_clarkson> Iceland?  not been there.
[13:42:59] <roots_> s/is/it/
[13:43:14] <ricky_clarkson> roots_: I was born in 1980.
[13:43:22] <Clackwell> haha, these kids...
[13:43:29] <ricky_clarkson> They used 'd' instead of 'p' for pence.
[13:43:45] 
[13:44:09] <eeaaxx> ricky_clarkson: i tried it also the mm/dd/yyyy format. still i get the out-of-range datetime exception
[13:44:10] <Goc> But the everyon know that the brittish are a bit upside-down
[13:44:11] <ricky_clarkson> But when the value of the pound was low, that was ok.
[13:44:42] <ricky_clarkson> A shilling might be a week's wages, in which case calculating pence wasn't going to trouble you.
[13:44:53] <Bowyakka> ricky_clarkson, wasnt that £3'4 ''6 ?
[13:45:05] <ricky_clarkson> There were ha'pennies - half pennies, and farthings, quarter-pennies too.
[13:45:17] <ricky_clarkson> And sixpences, which weren't worth 6 pence.
[13:45:18] <Bowyakka> and crowns
[13:45:23] <Bowyakka> and florings
[13:45:27] <ricky_clarkson> And threpences and threpenny bits.
[13:45:34] <ricky_clarkson> And half crowns.
[13:45:39] <Bowyakka> thrupny bit guvner :P
[13:45:55] <ricky_clarkson> I'd imagine the paupers loved it but the rich people cpouldn't keep track of their own money.
[13:45:58] <Bowyakka> Goc upside down ?
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[13:46:04] <roots_> hahah
[13:46:07] <roots_> bizarre
[13:46:16] <ricky_clarkson> Just evolutionary.
[13:46:21] <roots_> no bizarre
[13:46:21] <Bowyakka> i am a post 83 child so i was spared the weirdness
[13:46:30] <cored> guys
[13:46:35] <roots_> it doesnt get anymore bizarre than that
[13:46:35] <ricky_clarkson> hombres.
[13:46:36] <roots_> hi cored
[13:46:43] <cored> roots_ ricky_clarkson do you two sleep ?
[13:46:49] <cored> i just went to sleep like 6 hours ago
[13:46:49] <ricky_clarkson> Thu Oct 13 12:48:41 BST 2005
[13:47:00] <cored> and you two were here :-|
[13:47:14] <ricky_clarkson> En Inglaterra, nos tengos las siestas.
[13:47:55] <cored> je
[13:47:55] <ricky_clarkson> Six hours ago I woke up and fiddled with my music on my laptop, and just said a few words
[13:47:56] <cored> ok
[13:48:20] <ricky_clarkson> cored: Was my Spanish even close to being right there?  The plural for 'I have' was a guess.
[13:48:23] <Goc> roots: Oh yes it does. The Swedes "Man-tax" proposition was even worse. According to that proposition (posted by a feminist) all men should pay alot more tax than women, to compensate for the medical costs of  battered wives...
[13:48:48] <ricky_clarkson> Goc: There's a taxi company in Manchester called mantax.
[13:49:00] <Goc> LOL!
[13:49:53] <ricky_clarkson> There's one in Warrington called Pink Ladies.
[13:50:06] <cored> ricky_clarkson: it was close, change 'tengo' with tomamos
[13:50:06] <ricky_clarkson> That's a taxi company for women, driven by women.
[13:50:14] <ricky_clarkson> cored: I don't like tomatoes.
[13:50:20] <cored> ricky_clarkson: :-P
[13:50:58] <ricky_clarkson> cored: Does tengo remain tengo when I say I have more than one thing?
[13:51:05] <ricky_clarkson> cored: E.g., tengo dos dolares?
[13:51:18] <cored> ricky_clarkson: yes
[13:51:40] <ricky_clarkson> Vale, gracias.
[13:52:16] <ricky_clarkson> cored: I looked up the Dominican Republic on Google Earth, didn't realise you were so close to Cuba.
[13:52:30] <ricky_clarkson> For some reason I thought you were on the Pacific coast of South America.
[13:53:15] <ricky_clarkson> Do you fight the Haitians?
[13:53:20] <cored> ricky_clarkson: yes we are
[13:53:30] <cored> ricky_clarkson: not right now
[13:53:40] <cored> ricky_clarkson: but there's some fighting near the edge of the country
[13:53:50] <cored> ricky_clarkson: they kill a lot of people there
[13:54:21] <ricky_clarkson> I recommend building a theme park there.
[13:54:42] <roots_> cored: what music is popular in on your island ?
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[13:54:52] <ricky_clarkson> Bachata!
[13:55:29] <cored> :-)
[13:55:30] <lilo5000> am doing image processing algorithms on java because i found it easyer than c but i dont know if algorithm writen in java can be fast as those writen in c?
[13:55:33] <cored> ricky_clarkson: how do you knew
[13:55:36] <cored> roots_: and Merengue too
[13:55:48] <ricky_clarkson> cored: soy un bailero.
[13:55:50] <cored> but the youngs heard Reggeton
[13:55:53] <ricky_clarkson> y un profesor de baila.
[13:55:58] <lilo5000> any idea
[13:56:01] <cored> ricky_clarkson: s/bailero/bailador
[13:56:06] <ricky_clarkson> Reggaeton is good too, but it can be annoying.
[13:56:11] <cored> yes
[13:56:24] <cored> i don't like just for getting some chicks
[13:56:25] <ricky_clarkson> roots_: Reggaeton is like soca but heavy.
[13:56:48] <roots_> oh i dont know even
[13:56:55] <roots_> i listen to classic reggae mostly
[13:57:03] <roots_> and old school calypso
[13:57:06] <ricky_clarkson> roots_: Like the music I gave you a link to.
[13:57:10] <ricky_clarkson> Sweet Soca Music.
[13:57:14] <roots_> that was soca wasnt it ?
[13:57:18] <ricky_clarkson> Yep.
[13:57:22] <ricky_clarkson> There's a clue in the name.
[13:57:23] <roots_> the name kind of suggests that
[13:58:04] <ricky_clarkson> cored: tengo muchas bachatas de Aventura en mi, er, laptop.
[13:58:58] <ricky_clarkson> cored: I use them in the lessons I teach, with beginners, as a slow salsa.  Really, cha-cha is better for that though.
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[14:01:33] <ricky_clarkson> One day I'll shave my head, wear a bandana and talk with a Cuban accent, then I'll get 3 times as many students.
[14:03:22] <cored> ricky_clarkson: je
[14:03:29] <cored> ricky_clarkson: i did not know you like that much Bachata
[14:03:29] <roots_> ricky_clarkson: + a face transplant :)
[14:03:33] <cored> ricky_clarkson: anyway Aventura is good
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[14:04:13] <ricky_clarkson> cored: I have a lot more Cuban music than bachata.
[14:04:23] <ricky_clarkson> Probably 15 bachatas and 300 Cuban tracks.
[14:04:57] <ricky_clarkson> I use Cuban rather loosely, if it's salsa and not jazzy, it gets called Cuban.
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[14:07:48] <cored> ricky_clarkson: i prefer Acid Jazz :-)
[14:07:54] <cored> Trip Hop
[14:08:13] <cored> i think in too deep into european style
[14:08:19] <cored> s/in/im
[14:08:22] <snow_ru> why I can not say if(my == true)
[14:08:27] <snow_ru> where my is boolean type
[14:08:45] <ricky_clarkson> snow_ru: You can.
[14:08:59] <ricky_clarkson> There's no need to, but you can.
[14:09:12] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell snow_ru about errors
[14:09:13] <javabot> snow_ru, Please tell us what errors you have got, rather than making us guess.  Use the pastebin if greater than two lines.
[14:09:15] <snow_ru> the operator == is undefined for the argument types int
[14:09:17] <snow_ru> boolean
[14:09:25] <ricky_clarkson> my is an int, not  aboolean.
[14:09:31] <snow_ru> boolean
[14:09:36] <ricky_clarkson> int
[14:09:54] <cored> wel im going to work
[14:09:57] <snow_ru> sorry, I declare 2 variables.. and it uses the local one..
[14:09:58] <cored> see ya later ricky_clarkson
[14:09:59] <snow_ru> sorry
[14:10:10] <ricky_clarkson> snow_ru: np
[14:10:21] <cored> bye roots_
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[14:18:28] <ricky_clarkson> snow_ru: Try better variable names.
[14:19:38] <snow_ru> how to start parsing XML document at line n ?
[14:19:42] <snow_ru> not the first line
[14:19:59] <snow_ru> method setDocumentLocator ?
[14:20:51] <ricky_clarkson> snow_ru: Could you not put it in a separate String and use that via a StringReader or a CharArrayInputStream or something?
[14:21:11] <snow_ru> ?
[14:21:17] <snow_ru> you recommend that way to read XML file ?
[14:21:32] <ricky_clarkson> No, I recommend having an XML file.
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[14:21:42] <ricky_clarkson> Not a file that has some XML somewhere.
[14:21:57] <snow_ru> it's an xml file
[14:22:14] <ricky_clarkson> So why start anywhere other than the beginning?
[14:22:14] <snow_ru> but I want to skip n  first lines
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[14:22:24] <ricky_clarkson> Then you'll have invalid XML.
[14:22:28] <snow_ru> Because I do not need these information
[14:22:41] <snow_ru> I just want to gen information from XML , dont care to put it back
[14:23:15] <ricky_clarkson> You can ask for a particular part of the Document using XPath, I believe.
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[14:25:44] <ricky_clarkson> ~factoids
[14:25:44] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, factoids is The list of my current factoids can be found at http://www.cheeseronline.org/~javabot/ .  Use 'help factoids' for more information.
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[14:43:29] <Dandre> I have another problem. I am trying to make a fonction recursive. Is there something special to do?
[14:43:44] <Dandre> It doesn't seem to work :-(
[14:44:13] <ricky_clarkson> Dandre: How does it seem not to work?
[14:44:55] <Dandre> It is like the function doesn't recurse
[14:45:19] <Dandre> May I paste my code here?
[14:45:38] <ricky_clarkson> }tell Dandre about pastebin
[14:45:44] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell Dandre about pastebin
[14:45:44] <javabot> Dandre, Paste your code, preferably a test case, any errors, and any other relevant information into the pastebin and tell us the URL: http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin
[14:45:58] <ricky_clarkson> Hey, who rotated me ~ key? ;)
[14:48:25] <teralaser> I did.
[14:48:59] <teralaser> Blah nm'
[14:49:49] <Drone> View dandre's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8317
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[14:50:53] <Dandre> This code is to realize sth like format("%s",String) not available in java1.4
[14:53:05] <Dandre> ricky_clarkson: any idea?
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[14:54:14] <ricky_clarkson> Dandre: What makes you think it doesn't recurse?
[14:55:44] <Dandre> Because if size-s.length() is greater than the size of the filer, i only get  one filer and not more
[14:58:24] <Dandre> should I declare j differently? Is there one instance of j for each call or is it shared for all function calls?
[14:58:27] <Dandre> ricky_clarkson: ?
[14:58:36] <ricky_clarkson> Busy.
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[15:03:43] <Chmmr> it's horror, I think. Dandre, what you are trying to do? It's not Lisp
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[15:05:10] <Dandre> Ok Chmmr I write java since 2 weeks
[15:05:29] <Dandre> How should you write it instead?
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[15:05:54] <KingNato> Dandre: Are you trying to pad the string?
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[15:06:05] <Dandre> Yes
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[15:06:56] <Dandre> KingNato: I have read the String methods but found nothing
[15:09:11] <Clackwell> string petting?
[15:09:14] <Clackwell> padding?
[15:10:15] <KingNato> Dandre: Create a string buffer of the appropriate size, and set the initial characters to ' '
[15:11:35] <Clackwell> creative approach: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=java+pad+string&btnG=Google+Search
[15:11:50] <Dandre> KingNato: like this: StringBuffer buffer = new StringBuffer(' '); ?
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[15:12:33] <KingNato> Dandre: No, you create a string buffer of the required size of the padding, set all the characters in it to ' ', and then append the string
[15:13:05] <Clackwell> can you create a StringBuffer with a given char size in one step?
[15:13:48] <KingNato> Clackwell: Sure, there's a constructor taking an int
[15:14:00] <Clackwell> KingNato: that is the capacity only it seems.
[15:15:09] <Drone> View Chmmr's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8318
[15:15:37] <KingNato> Hmm, you're right
[15:15:49] <Chmmr> Dandre, see post
[15:16:01] <Clackwell> StringBuffer sb = new StringBuffer(); sb.setLength(10); sb.setCharAt(1, 'a'); sb.append('b'); System.out.println(sb);
[15:16:03] <KingNato> Oh, well, then you just append the spaces instead of setting
[15:16:15] <KingNato> Oh, you can set the length explicitly?
[15:16:20] <Clackwell> but that way you have to "fill away" those 0x0000 chars
[15:16:41] <Clackwell> sb.setCharAt(0, 'a'); makes more sense i guess.
[15:16:55] <Dandre> Chmmr: I am seeing it. Thanks
[15:17:06] <KingNato> There should be a setLength taking a fill character
[15:17:22] <doc|work> damn, I was just about to say setLength
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[15:19:02] <Clackwell> KingNato: that would be the extra bit that makes it a joy. java's api are designed by sun (and people with similar thinking), not apple. that explains, i guess. ;>
[15:19:32] <Chmmr> the question is, what is faster - sb.append(' ') or sb.setCharAt(i, ' ') ?
[15:20:22] <Clackwell> Chmmr: is that really the question? .append might require a .setCapacity first, to avoid internal resizing.
[15:20:34] <KingNato> Chmmr: Should be pretty much the same if you've set the capacity
[15:21:04] <KingNato> Clackwell: Many Java APIs give the impression of having been designed by a summer intern :(
[15:21:17] <Clackwell> KingNato: [no comment] ;)
[15:21:32] <Chmmr> yes, assuming buffer capacity was set previously
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[15:27:47] <jdolan> can anyone tell me the 'correct' way to handle ssl with virtual hosts (jetty)?  in other words, does each virtual host need it's own certificate to prevent browsers from warning about the domain of the server cert?
[15:28:18] <jdolan> can you add multiple names to a cert?
[15:28:47] <Dandre> Ok I won't use my recurse methode to pad String. But I'd like to understand why my code doesn't work
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[15:29:17] <Dandre> Must I declare my variable j differentlt?
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[15:36:36] <Chmmr> Dandre, that code was too scary to understand it :)
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[15:38:44] <Dandre> ok Chmmr
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[15:48:53] <plams> all of my swing input widgets show "boxes" when i type in non-ascii-standard characters. what gives?
[15:49:08] <Clackwell> plams: linux? blackdown jdk?
[15:49:14] <Clackwell> blackdown java, rather
[15:49:35] <plams> clackwell - sun java on linux
[15:50:02] <Clackwell> plams: perhaps some font screw up with the linux distro. try on another linux box, with different distro?
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[15:50:39] <pr3d4t0r> Good morning.
[15:52:09] <roots_> first find out what font you are using
[15:52:18] <roots_> then check whether the font has the glyphs
[15:52:38] <roots_> use powerful tools like xfontsel :>
[15:53:52] <Clackwell> hi pred
[15:54:24] <plams> Clackwell: not sure it's the font, because, if i draw a string somewhere containing a utf16 char (e.g. "\u00F8") it works fine, if the string is specified in the source code. but if i get it from an input widget it shows up wrong
[15:54:55] <Clackwell> plams: ok, so don't test on another linux box. :)
[15:56:19] <roots_> what fonts ?
[15:56:34] <roots_> you are using swing and not awt right ?
[15:57:11] <roots_> when you type in non-ascii chars do they work with other xapps ?
[15:57:15] <plams> looks like the font is set to helvetica size 12
[15:57:21] <plams> and it's swing, yes
[15:57:27] <roots_> getFont() on the swing and on the graphics and compare the two
[15:57:36] <roots_> brb, marlboro for me
[15:58:41] <Clackwell> cancerman
[15:58:54] <jwormy> cancerman?
[15:58:57] * jwormy raises hand
[15:59:06] <pr3d4t0r> Clackwell: He must be the last one to learn that smoking causes cancer.
[15:59:21] <jwormy> pr3d4t0r, i had a nurse who smoked once..
[15:59:31] <pr3d4t0r> Clackwell: I feel no pity for dumbasses with lung cancer who smoke.
[15:59:38] <Clackwell> pr3d4t0r: ;)
[15:59:39] <jwormy> pr3d4t0r, as i was walking into the hospital to get treatment she was outside smoking.. i was like 'have you not learned anything?'
[15:59:44] <HelloWorld82> is someone here using intellij IDEA?
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[15:59:48] <pr3d4t0r> jwormy: Yup.
[16:00:05] <FaeLLe> HelloWorld82: loads of us :)
[16:00:11] <pr3d4t0r> jwormy: No pity in my heart for them.  We skydivers are like that.  If you do stupid things, you deserve a stupid death.
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[16:00:13] <HelloWorld82> ah. cool. Love it too.
[16:00:15] <pr3d4t0r> FaeLLe!
[16:00:28] <HelloWorld82> but here at work, Ive got a problem with intellij Idea. I'm under kde 3.3
[16:00:45] <FaeLLe> pr3d4t0r: ola :)
[16:00:49] <jwormy> pr3d4t0r, like ride my motorcycle around curves and drag a knee :\ with my pucks? :(
[16:01:01] <FaeLLe> pr3d4t0r: hows your bat mobile doin
[16:01:21] <pr3d4t0r> The lethal H5N1 strain of bird flu has been found in Turkish poultry and is likely present in Romania.
[16:01:21] <HelloWorld82> and every 15 minutes are so, the ide lost the focus, and I can not edit anymore. So I have to restart it :(. I wanted to know, if someone else also has got this problem
[16:01:21] <nmx> synchronization question - if i have a block that synchronizes on an object, and some other thread calls a synchronized method on that object, will the second thread block? cause synchronized methods implicitly synchronize "this" right?
[16:01:36] <pr3d4t0r> FaeLLe: Life's good.
[16:01:40] <pr3d4t0r> jwormy: Yeah, like that.
[16:01:50] <pr3d4t0r> jwormy: On a residential road.
[16:01:59] <pr3d4t0r> jwormy: I saw a video of some dumbass wiping doing that.
[16:02:06] <jwormy> pr3d4t0r, no residential roads, just mountain roads
[16:02:21] <Clackwell> "drag a knee"?
[16:02:30] <jwormy> Clackwell, watch a motogp race
[16:03:15] <roots_> mkhl: this or on the class object if static
[16:03:19] <Clackwell> jwormy: where they lean to the side so far as to touch the road witht he knees, that's what they have those protectors in their suit for, right?
[16:03:32] <jwormy> Clackwell, yes
[16:03:39] <FaeLLe> jwormy: i think dibleggo must do that
[16:03:47] <jwormy> Clackwell, this weekend i road and got passed by a girl dragging her elbows too :(
[16:03:53] <Clackwell> jwormy: and that is not an intelligent thing to do on a non race track? :)
[16:04:01] <Clackwell> jwormy: haha :)
[16:04:20] <plams> clackwell - it works fine on another box running blackdown :/
[16:04:32] <pr3d4t0r> Hrm... Daniel Criag as James Bond.  Not a good choice.
[16:05:03] <nmx> they should bring back sean connery
[16:05:08] <Clackwell> plams: try the exact same jre on that box, to eliminate that or the distro/version
[16:05:10] <roots_> indeed not
[16:05:24] <roots_> bond is supposed to wear condoms
[16:05:33] <roots_> some political correctness campaign going on
[16:05:59] <jwormy> anyone heard of thinkcap, its a java ajax framework...   there server pricing is 15k.. one developer license in 2500.. they just emailed me and asked if i wanted to participate in their beta...
[16:06:13] <jwormy> i told them it was pointless because i couldn't afford a license afterwards
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[16:06:43] <pr3d4t0r> jwormy: Send me the information; I'd participate in their beta.
[16:06:57] <jwormy> www.clearnova.com/ThinkCAP
[16:07:02] <jwormy> pr3d4t0r, i am just afriad i will like it
[16:07:21] <jwormy> and then i will be like 'hello small business man, check out this cool stuff i can do.. oh btw you need to send these people a 15k check'
[16:07:24] <pr3d4t0r> jwormy: 404
[16:07:56] <jwormy> pr3d4t0r, sorry www.clearnova.com
[16:08:09] <Dargaard> Uncaught exception java/lang/ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException. :((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
[16:08:22] <pr3d4t0r> Dargaard: ...
[16:08:29] <Dargaard> pr3d4t0r?
[16:08:45] <Dargaard> it's killing me :))
[16:08:56] <pr3d4t0r> Dargaard: Relax, horsey.  All that means is that you tried to execute something that punched a reference past the end of the array.
[16:08:57] <Dargaard> i'm going to die in pain
[16:09:11] <Dargaard> vector[-1]
[16:09:15] <Dargaard> but where
[16:09:20] <Dargaard> that's my problem
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[16:09:23] <Dargaard> WHERE :((((((((((((((((
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[16:09:37] * doc|work removes Dargaard's ( and ) key
[16:10:36] <pr3d4t0r> Dargaard: d00d, relax.  if (nPtr == -1) out.printf("Ref = %d\n", nPtr); /* other diagnostics */ else x = vector[nPtr];
[16:10:45] <pr3d4t0r> Dargaard: Use a symbolic debugger.
[16:10:53] <pr3d4t0r> Dargaard: There are lots of ways of figuring that out.
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[16:11:11] <pr3d4t0r> Dargaard: if (nPtr < 0) out.printf("Ref = %d\n", nPtr); /* other diagnostics */ else x = vector[nPtr];
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[16:13:35] <Dargaard> pr3d4t0r that's c++
[16:13:44] <Dargaard> i don't have a debugger
[16:13:49] <Dargaard> it J2ME
[16:13:52] <Dargaard> JAVA
[16:13:58] <Dargaard> :(
[16:14:50] <HelloWorld82> so, I'm not sure, if that really interest someone, but I found the response to the focus problem with intellij idea. It looks like, it is a kde bug, and is fixed in kde3.4.
[16:14:50] <Dargaard> pr3d4t0r : you don't understand... it 10000 lines program
[16:15:00] <Dargaard> and it's an uncaught exception
[16:15:02] <Dargaard> :(
[16:15:10] <plams> clackwell - fails on one box with blackdown 1.4.2, succeeds on another box with blackdown 1.4.2, and fails on my box with sun 1.4.2. ...
[16:17:41] <roots_> did you check the fonts ?
[16:18:02] <roots_> you can even load ttf font
[16:18:05] <roots_> +s
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[16:19:31] <plams> roots - i really doubt the problem has anything to do with fonts. i can display the unicode stuff i desire if i put it in a string and compile it, but it fails when i recieve unicode input from a widget. say JOptionPane.showInputDialog()
[16:20:11] <pr3d4t0r> I always find it amusing when an asshat is dumb enough to write a long program, probably with very long methods (why on God's green earth would someone write a method > 30 lines of code?), they can't trace their own bugs, they're dumb enough to whine, and in the end tell me "you don't understand".
[16:20:43] <Clackwell> pr3d4t0r: man, you just don't understand it.
[16:20:46] <pr3d4t0r> As if the stupid implementation mistakes they make are *my* fault.
[16:23:16] <jwormy> when you add images to a word document do they get saved into the word document or do i need to send them along with the document like a freakin html document?
[16:23:34] <pr3d4t0r> jwormy: They get saved unless you embedded a link, not the image.
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[16:25:41] <jwormy> class, back later
[16:26:32] <pchapman> Greetings all who inhabit ##java
[16:27:13] * cheeser bows.
[16:27:32] <pr3d4t0r> pchapman: "Denizens".
[16:27:54] <pchapman> pr3d4t0r, Yes.  That is a good word.
[16:28:06] <pr3d4t0r> pchapman: Verbosity is a Bad Thing(sm).
[16:28:07] <pchapman> I'm proud of you.  Your vocabulary is improving.
[16:28:20] <pr3d4t0r> pchapman: We all do our best.
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[16:30:15] <snow_ru> hi
[16:30:35] <snow_ru> no one says : hi to me ?
[16:30:53] <pchapman> Sorry snow_ru I thought you were responding to my greeting.
[16:30:59] <pchapman> Hello.
[16:31:14] 
[16:31:29] <snow_ru> aLTer, privet
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[16:31:40] <aLTer> snow_ru, can't read koi8-r?
[16:31:40] <snow_ru> kak y vac lela ?
[16:31:49] <snow_ru> aLTer, I can read
[16:32:02] <snow_ru> aLTer, where are you ?
[16:32:15] 
[16:32:15] <snow_ru> tui gde ?
[16:32:26] <snow_ru> ah.. programmist /
[16:32:26] <snow_ru> ?
[16:32:47] 
[16:32:59] 
[16:33:17] <snow_ru> aLTer, mne ochen interesuet kriptographi
[16:33:46] <cheeser> aLTer: snow_ru:  take this to a pm, please.
[16:33:47] <aLTer> snow_ru, a ti chem zanimaeshsya? Chto ti iz pitera, ya uzje ponyal
[16:34:08] <aLTer> cheeser, ok, we switching to english :)
[16:34:20] <snow_ru> pr3d4t0r, vui ne ckazete nichero ?
[16:34:57] <pr3d4t0r> snow_ru:
[16:35:03] <pr3d4t0r> snow_ru: Shto?
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[16:35:31] <snow_ru> pr3d4t0r, pochemy vui ne uchite cheeser pusskii iazuk ?
[16:35:40] <pr3d4t0r> snow_ru: He, he, he...
[16:35:45] <pr3d4t0r> snow_ru: On nye khochet'.
[16:36:02] <snow_ru> cheeser, pochemu tui ne khochesh ?
[16:36:12] <pr3d4t0r> snow_ru: He's going to kick you.
[16:36:19] <snow_ru> :)
[16:36:23] <snow_ru> ok
[16:36:28] <lunk> how can i specify what clustered server a client connects to?
[16:36:57] <aLTer> snow_ru, so, what do you do in spbu? learn something? teach somebody?
[16:37:04] <lunk> i have a WAN cluster for cache invalidation only, but because of RoundRobin it sometimes still pulls off of a remote AS
[16:37:17] <pr3d4t0r> snow_ru: If we were at least discussing Java topics...
[16:39:17] <{eng}bar4ka> pr3d4t0r: hey guys how can i get an event when a Jpanel is showed or hidden ?
[16:39:36] <{eng}bar4ka> pr3d4t0r !!!!
[16:39:37] <pr3d4t0r> {eng}bar4ka: You can't.
[16:39:40] <pr3d4t0r> {eng}bar4ka!
[16:39:46] <pr3d4t0r> {eng}bar4ka: What kind of event?
[16:39:57] <pr3d4t0r> {eng}bar4ka: How will you dispatch the event to the component if it's hidden?
[16:40:13] <pr3d4t0r> {eng}bar4ka: You *could* implement an observer and notify hidden components that way.
[16:40:32] <{eng}bar4ka> pr3d4t0r: a listener ?
[16:40:42] <snow_ru> yes, mestnui
[16:40:46] <snow_ru> :)
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[16:41:02] * snow_ru eyes on javabot
[16:41:12] <snow_ru> javabot,
[16:41:16] <snow_ru> it's turned off
[16:41:31] <chessicstudent> how can i access a java applet on a web page programmatically?
[16:41:46] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: define "access"
[16:42:09] <snow_ru> pr3d4t0r, do you think Java applet now is not widely used ?
[16:42:15] <chessicstudent> let me find an example
[16:42:36] <Clackwell> pr3d4t0r: do you think frobnigators need java interfaces for extra spilling?
[16:42:42] <Chmmr> well, there is java.awt.event.ComponentListener.componentHidden(ComponentEvent)
[16:43:00] <{eng}bar4ka> i did: addComponentListener(new ComponentListener(){ ....
[16:43:33] <chessicstudent> so for example: http://www.cut-the-knot.org/recurrence/hanoi.shtml
[16:43:54] <chessicstudent> i want do something like txtBox.text = 10; cmdButton.push()
[16:44:15] <chessicstudent> to type 5 in the text box and make it go
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[16:45:17] <chessicstudent> does that make any sense?
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[16:46:28] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: you want to call methods of the applet from javascript? make the methods public, access applet by name as defined in the surrounding html page.
[16:47:06] <chessicstudent> i can't get access to the applet code
[16:47:33] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: sheet out of luck then. ask the vendor.
[16:47:59] <chessicstudent> well, how does the browser tell the applet what buttons were pressed?
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[16:50:09] <chessicstudent> or am i not understanding how an applet works?
[16:50:52] <Honk^away> usually.. it doesnt ;)
[16:51:18] <chessicstudent> wow, you're so clever
[16:52:23] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: in javascript on that page: TheApplet.theMethod();
[16:53:49] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: however, applet-javascript communication isn't so common - because applets are not so common. an applet must expose methods for use by javascript by way of declaring those methods public (if i recall correctly), and those methods must be documented for someone to use, of course. lacking that -> ask author.
[16:54:18] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: there is no javascript functionality to say "hey browser, that applet there, it shows a button right now, please press that for me."
[16:54:18] <chessicstudent> i'm actually trying to program a chat bot for a server whos interface is a java applet
[16:54:38] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: you just made me feel very sick.
[16:54:44] <chessicstudent> huh?
[16:55:02] <chessicstudent> why?
[16:55:16] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: an irc/chat bot which requires to be run in a web browser? that's so sick.
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[16:55:37] <chessicstudent> no, i'm not trying to run it through the web browser
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[16:55:49] <ke|z> lo
[16:55:50] <chessicstudent> i'm guessing i'd connect accross a socket
[16:55:51] <Honk^away> chessicstudent: show that applet
[16:55:58] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: applet execute in the browser, which loads the java virtual machine to execute the applet.
[16:56:04] <Clackwell> applets, rather
[16:56:38] <chessicstudent> hmm, i'm not getting it
[16:56:57] <Honk^away> chessicstudent: are you talking about an irc applet?
[16:56:58] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: a java chat applet is being executed on the client computer, in the browser.
[16:57:03] <chessicstudent> it's not irc
[16:57:12] <Honk^away> chessicstudent: you sure?
[16:57:16] <Honk^away> show it to us, if possible :P
[16:57:21] <AlphaOmega_wrk> is there a web applet to chat freenode irc?
[16:57:25] <AlphaOmega_wrk> over https?
[16:57:35] <Honk^away> AlphaOmega: why https?
[16:57:45] <AlphaOmega_wrk> http is fine too
[16:57:54] <chessicstudent> clackwell, can't my program do whatever the brower does to execute it, and process the results? that's what i'm trying to d
[16:57:54] <Honk^away> you dont send any information over http anyway :P
[16:57:55] <chessicstudent> o
[16:58:02] <Honk^away> AlphaOmega: try cbirc ;)
[16:58:19] <AlphaOmega_wrk> sure you do
[16:58:19] <Honk^away> chessicstudent: the browser doesnt do anything to process the results
[16:58:34] <AlphaOmega_wrk> youre mouse commands get sent over http to the applet, and keystrokes, no?
[16:58:42] <Honk^away> AlphaOmega: no?
[16:58:44] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: i don't understand anymore. do you have an applet that you want to control via javascript, yes or no?
[16:58:51] <Honk^away> applets are run on the client, not the server
[16:58:59] <chessicstudent> not necessarily via javascript, no
[16:59:03] <AlphaOmega_wrk> oh, right
[16:59:07] <AlphaOmega_wrk> thanks
[16:59:08] <Honk^away> Clackwell: an applet that should be controlled using java
[16:59:11] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: via what, then?
[16:59:25] <pr3d4t0r> Bevin: I'm happy with Azureus.
[16:59:33] <Clackwell> Honk^away: did he say that?
[16:59:37] <Honk^away> Clackwell: yes
[16:59:39] <Honk^away> several times
[16:59:58] <Clackwell> Honk^away: can you copy and paste?
[17:00:01] <chessicstudent> ok, so this chat interface is loaded by accessing a web page, which loads a java applet and allows you to send text to and from the applet. i want to programmatically be able to send text to and from the applet from a standalone program the same way.
[17:00:09] <Honk^away> he's trying to set up a bot that uses the applet as interface :)
[17:00:21] <Honk^away> Clackwell: there ya go
[17:00:42] <Honk^away> chessicstudent: dont you think that actually implementing the chat yourself would be way easier?
[17:00:47] <Honk^away> show that applet to us :P
[17:01:06] <Clackwell> standalone program == applet?
[17:01:14] <chessicstudent> no
[17:01:14] <Honk^away> Clackwell: ?
[17:01:20] <Honk^away> standalone program using an applet
[17:01:24] <chessicstudent> just something i'd write in C++ or perl or whatever
[17:01:24] <Honk^away> to connect to a chat
[17:01:55] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: you can write a program in c++ and so on to load the jvm and make that jvm execute an applet. you can, then, like a browser, call the applet's methods.
[17:02:09] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: such an approach would be overly moronic, of course.
[17:02:15] <newm4n> Cant imagine an irc bot applet. How weird.
[17:02:17] <chessicstudent> what would be a better approach?
[17:02:26] <Honk^away> newm4n: noone'S talking about that
[17:02:34] <Clackwell> ~tell chessicstudent about source
[17:02:36] <javabot> chessicstudent, My subversion repository can be found at http://www.cheeseronline.org/svn/repos/javabot
[17:02:37] <Honk^away> chessicstudent: i've been telling you for some time now :)
[17:02:55] <newm4n> <Honk^away> he's trying to set up a bot that uses the applet as interface :) <-- makes me wonder :)
[17:03:17] <chessicstudent> what am i looking for there, Clackwell?
[17:03:21] <Honk^away> newm4n: he's trying to use the applet as some kind of protocol-wrapper
[17:03:31] <Honk^away> Clackwell: he said it's not irc
[17:03:37] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: oh, nevermind
[17:03:41] <Clackwell> Honk^away: yeah, just recalled
[17:03:43] <Honk^away> chessicstudent: why cant you show that applet to us?
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[17:03:52] <Honk^away> i'd really like to see it
[17:04:07] <Clackwell> Honk^away: good luck with that c++ stuff, JNI will be your friend.
[17:04:10] <chessicstudent> sure. it's at www.crosswalk.com
[17:04:29] <Honk^away> Clackwell: huh? :)
[17:04:42] <Clackwell> Honk^away: i just recalled that he said no irc
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[17:05:09] <chessicstudent> so when i chat there, i chat by accessing the server through a java applet in my browser. i want to write a bot that can somehow monitor the chat and respond to commands, similar to what the bots on here do
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[17:05:29] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: reverse engineer the protocol and write a client for that.
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[17:05:41] <chessicstudent> what protocol?
[17:05:47] <newm4n> chessicstudent : read RFC about IRC protocol
[17:05:50] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: the one that applet and server use?
[17:05:54] <chessicstudent> it's not IRC
[17:05:54] <Clackwell> newm4n: might not be irc
[17:05:57] <Honk^away> Clackwell: that's what i've been suggesting
[17:06:01] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: how do you know?
[17:06:08] <Clackwell> Honk^away: didn't see
[17:06:25] <chessicstudent> trust me, it's not
[17:06:33] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: where is it there?
[17:06:33] <chessicstudent> it's a software package that was sold
[17:06:44] <chessicstudent> under community | chat
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[17:07:16] <roots_> jni--
[17:07:19] <roots_> i did too much of it
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[17:07:36] <roots_> enough to avoid as much of it as possible which is actually quite possible
[17:07:54] <roots_> not only can you narrow what you do inside jni, also you can call back into java code from your jni
[17:08:55] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: no login, can't check, bummer
[17:09:08] <chessicstudent> what would you check?
[17:09:44] <chessicstudent> (that's why i hesitated to give the address, you can't log in anyway)
[17:09:53] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: the fact that the chat solution was sold/commercial is no proof for not being irc to me.
[17:10:06] <chessicstudent> so, how would you find out?
[17:10:30] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: by looking at it and by possibly reverse engineering the protocol, as had been suggested?
[17:10:42] <Clackwell> network packet sniffing isn't so uncommon.
[17:10:54] <chessicstudent> like with ethereal?
[17:10:58] <Clackwell> yeah
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[17:12:55] <chessicstudent> what would i be looking for in ethereal?
[17:13:48] <Honk^away> Clackwell: it's not irc
[17:14:07] <Clackwell> Honk^away: how do you know?
[17:14:21] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: the traffic from that application/applet.
[17:14:55] <chessicstudent> so it would be http?
[17:15:10] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: why would it be? where do you get such conclusions from?
[17:15:17] <Clackwell> it could be http, sure.
[17:15:20] <Clackwell> could be anything.
[17:15:21] <chessicstudent> i don't know, it was a guess
[17:15:27] <Clackwell> without analyzing you won't know.
[17:15:41] <chessicstudent> how would i tell which traffic is coming from that applet?
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[17:16:28] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: there is nothing irc'ish about the applet user interface, but that is no proof against the use of the irc protocol below the surface. using the irc protocol has the advantage that you would pretty much not have to write your own client protocol handler, same for the server.
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[17:16:55] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: close browser, open browser, go to chat, see which ports are open, sniff those ports?
[17:17:10] <Clackwell> close browser completely to ensure that it isn't connected anywhere else anymore.
[17:17:25] <Honk^away> Clackwell: free sign up :p
[17:17:33] <Clackwell> Honk^away: yeah
[17:17:37] <Clackwell> Honk^away: so how do you know?
[17:17:43] <roots_> Clackwell: it might be illegal to sniff
[17:17:54] <roots_> depending on country, license and so on
[17:18:08] <roots_> especially in non free countries like liberia, togo, south kongo, usa
[17:18:14] <Honk^away> tcp        0      0 ::ffff:134.106.14:32793 ::ffff:66.179.152.2:443 ESTABLISHED 28690/java_vm
[17:18:31] <ke|z> is it possible to make in a JApplet a JButton, which width is the one of a char, and not seeing the "..." ?
[17:18:32] <Honk^away> Clackwell: ethereal doesnt show any irc packets ;)
[17:19:16] <newm4n> Honk^away : http GET or POST ?
[17:19:54] <Clackwell> Honk^away: ok
[17:20:32] <chessicstudent> so...how can i do it then?
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[17:20:50] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: hire a specialist who can do stuff like reverse engineering, etc.
[17:21:16] <chessicstudent> this is something i'm doing for fun, not a business thing
[17:21:29] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: you could also decompile their applet and try to make heads and tails of it.
[17:21:51] <Clackwell> that would be a very christian thing to do :>
[17:22:16] <newm4n> Not obfuscated hopefuly.
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[17:22:59] <chessicstudent> so it's not just going to be a matter of writing something to simulate a browser
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[17:23:42] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: yeah, executing the applet still doesn't expose events and functionality of it.
[17:23:56] <Clackwell> executing the applet in a faked environment, i meant.
[17:24:18] <Honk^away> especially, you wont be able to get the text ;)
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[17:24:36] <chessicstudent> but i don't understand, if the browswer can do it, why i can't
[17:24:54] <Clackwell> Honk^away: i could imagine that patching the applet here and there to expose events and functionality could be reasonably easy to do, even when obfuscated, but...
[17:25:02] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: the browser can? where?
[17:25:16] <chessicstudent> isn't that what it's doing?
[17:25:42] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: the browser loads the jvm. it tells the jvm to load the applet. it tells the jvm to execute the applet. that's it.
[17:25:53] <Honk^away> Clackwell: yeah, maybe
[17:26:07] <Honk^away> chessicstudent: the browser is just exposing some interface for java to interact with the user
[17:26:16] <Honk^away> it doesnt actually do much with the applet itself
[17:26:34] <Honk^away> (e.g. it's not responsible for rendering the text)
[17:26:38] <chessicstudent> but the browser must get the results from the applet and display it
[17:26:47] <Clackwell> chessicstudent: nope. the applet does.
[17:26:47] <newm4n> Clackwell, maybe the applet is getting host information from browser about the host its going to connect.
[17:26:47] <Honk^away> no
[17:27:17] <chessicstudent> hmm, ok
[17:27:21] <Clackwell> newm4n: likely in the <applet> tag
[17:28:45] <newm4n> Clackwell : yeah, thats could be. Thats why the applet wont run on a faked environment.
[17:29:00] <Clackwell> newm4n: who says that it doesn't? did you try?
[17:29:33] <newm4n> Clackwell : i just speculating.
[17:29:34] <Clackwell> newm4n: and why should a fake environment (appletviewer) not be able to support <applet> and parameters.
[17:29:39] <Clackwell> newm4n: yet you said "won't".
[17:29:52] <Honk^away> Clackwell: it doesnt
[17:29:54] <Honk^away> seems to be hardcoded :)
[17:31:02] <chessicstudent> thanks for the help, guys
[17:31:12] <Clackwell> Honk^away: yeah, i guess to make it easier for customers buying the chat solution, so they don't have to provide infrastructure. but of course, just speculation, could be hardcoded to the server of the customer. ;)
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[17:33:49] <Honk^away> :]
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[17:35:06] <Equilibre> folks.
[17:35:45] <cheeser> hey
[17:35:55] <Clackwell> hi cheeser
[17:36:29] <cheeser> howdy!
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[17:40:51] <roots_> the ivory league joins
[17:41:20] <roots_> cheeser, Equilibre  ... clackwell the bourgeoise from hamburg :)
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[17:43:49] <AlphaOmega_wrk> why do wires in headphone jacks only last 3 months?
[17:44:01] <AlphaOmega_wrk> until they start to crackle and lose connection
[17:44:22] <andolusia> cause you buy shitty headphones
[17:44:31] <AlphaOmega_wrk> not the headphones
[17:44:31] <AlphaOmega_wrk> the wire
[17:44:31] <AlphaOmega_wrk> the jack
[17:44:43] <andolusia> the wire in the headphones breaks right?
[17:44:59] <AlphaOmega_wrk> the wire at the end of the headphones, if you dont know what im talking about then nm
[17:45:02] <andolusia> buy a decent pair of headphones regardless
[17:45:17] <AlphaOmega_wrk> all headphones have this jack, unles si get the 70$ pair
[17:45:47] <AlphaOmega_wrk> the headphones work great, its the 25 cent wire they use in the jack that breaks after 3 months
[17:45:51] <AlphaOmega_wrk> arg, anyways
[17:46:54] <andolusia> well if you use headphones a lot, I think that justifies a decent pair of $70+ headphones
[17:47:03] <AlphaOmega_wrk> it does, i jsut cant afford it
[17:47:05] <andolusia> they won't break, and they'll sound even better
[17:47:24] <AlphaOmega_wrk> i have 15$ head phones with 20Hz - 20k Hz range, thats fine
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[17:48:09] <tezem> I try to use the javac task from ant but I have some problems with the include parameter. I must include a directory in which is a package named org.foo.fee and in there are the required .java files to compile but how I write this in include. Nothing I tried worked for me.
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[17:51:52] <apix> How do i open a file, and read ints from it ?
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[17:53:46] <Honk^away> ~javadoc FileInputStream
[17:53:46] <javabot> Honk^away, please see java.io.FileInputStream: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/io/FileInputStream.html
[17:53:49] <Honk^away> =)
[17:55:37] <apix> can I typecast the byte[] to int[] ??
[17:56:50] <Equilibre> heh
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[17:56:53] <newm4n> apix : DataInputStream dis = new DataInputStream(new FileInputStream(new File("/path/to/file"))); int x = dis.readInt();
[17:57:14] <apix> newm4n, thanks man..
[17:57:21] <bpalmer> how did you store the ints there in the first place, apix?
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[17:59:14] <newm4n> apix : if you read array of byte using read(byte[] b), you can get false reading since you want to read an ints from the file not bytes.
[18:00:02] <apix> bpalmer, I didnt. I just wanted to store them. I wasnt sure if i could do that.
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[18:02:32] <Drone> View timofeyc's post at:  http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8319
[18:02:42] <timofeyc> What is a good pattern to filter bean objects?
[18:03:04] <timofeyc> I have a vector of beans that I want to sort through based on various criteria set in another filter bean object, some exclusive, some non-exclusive, and my filter method looks horrible.
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[18:03:36] <timofeyc> I feel like Im trying to recreate SQL with all these if/try boolean result statements. Can someone recommend a good pattern to use?
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[18:03:50] <Clackwell> timofeyc: stuff into RDBMS and do the sql dance?
[18:04:21] <dvoss> It is easier to do a JList of editable combo-boxes, or a JTable?
[18:04:34] <davidwinter> is it possible to clean this code up anymore? http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8320
[18:04:41] <Clackwell> dvoss: try and tell us, report on my desk at 0800.
[18:04:54] <newm4n> timofeyc : using java.util.Comparator interface ?
[18:04:54] <dvoss> no problem, boss. I'll get right on that. :)
[18:05:28] <davidwinter> sorry, http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8321
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[18:05:45] <davidwinter> I basically need to use a cast, but inside a function
[18:05:49] <timofeyc> Clackwell: id rather not use sql
[18:05:55] <davidwinter> the type of thing I want to do is commented out on line 6
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[18:06:20] <littlezoper> davidwinter: newColour.setRed((int)this.getRed() * 1.42); ?
[18:06:24] <Clackwell> davidwinter: this. can be left away, in that case, it seems to me.
[18:06:34] <davidwinter> Clackwell: I get an error saying I can't do that
[18:06:37] <timofeyc> newm4n: i could use beanutils with its bean comparator, but there must be a basic pattern for this....like the decorator or something
[18:06:44] <littlezoper> will that work though?  will (int) 3.142 even run/compile?
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[18:07:54] <cheeser> sure
[18:08:02] <roots_> timofeyc: the code suffers from deep-nesting and ugly structuring of if statements
[18:08:16] <timofeyc> and its too long
[18:08:19] <davidwinter> littlezoper: how do you mean? like int x = (int) 3.142 ?
[18:08:24] <cheeser> littlezoper: though the newColor(...) it you posted will be a float
[18:08:30] <timofeyc> i want to add more conditions, but I need a better pattern before I do that...
[18:08:41] <roots_> eg try to combine ifs with &&, make the if the nominal case, make else the exceptional case, make if, elseif, ..., else rather than nested if/elses when applicable
[18:09:30] <littlezoper> cheeser: huh?
[18:09:36] <davidwinter> I'm guessing you just can't cast inside a function call?
[18:09:54] <roots_> timofeyc: how about this ... interface Filter { boolean filter(Object o); }   class AndFitler implements Filter { AndFilter (Filter a, Filter b) { this.a = a; this.b = b; } boolean filter(Object a) { return filter.a() && filter.b(); } }
[18:09:55] <littlezoper> davidwinter: yeah... what will the runtime do trying to cast a floating point number to an integer?  i don't know :P
[18:10:06] <cheeser> (int)getRed() * 1.42 will cast getRed() to an int and then multiply by 1.42, iirc.
[18:10:06] <littlezoper> davidwinter: sure you can
[18:10:11] <slava> littlezoper: eh
[18:10:15] <roots_> you get the idea, you can do a NotFilter and OrFilter and then a bunch of leaf filters and even feed them from xml or some other more declarative source
[18:10:22] <littlezoper> cheeser: ah...i forgot some parens :)
[18:10:24] <slava> littlezoper: (int(3.14 is just 3
[18:10:31] <slava> (int)
[18:10:36] <cheeser> slava: that's his point, i think.
[18:10:50] <littlezoper> slava: ok.  i couldn't remember if it would do that or die
[18:11:06] <slava> roots_: that's functional programming, just 10x more verbose
[18:12:19] <timofeyc> roots_:  that could work.  it would certainly look much nicer
[18:12:28] <roots_> slava: its verbose indeed
[18:12:36] <davidwinter> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8322
[18:12:46] <roots_> timofeyc: if i was you i would get a copy of "code complete" though and restructure those if/else conditions and eliminate the deep nesting
[18:13:09] <roots_> and have some consistent approach on making the nominal codepath easy to follow for the code reader
[18:13:18] <roots_> code complete covers all that, its a cool book
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[18:14:35] <timofeyc> roots_:  the deep nesting is becuase I dont want to test all possible filter conditions, only the ones that have been set.  I could make the codepath easier to follow, but it would become a beamoth (sp?)... so I was hoping there was a classic pattern for this...
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[18:15:08] <jmop> Is there any documentation of puting ssh ftp functions to upload files to an ftp in java?
[18:16:35] <roots_> timofeyc: i am sure the deep nesting can be avoided
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[18:18:14] <Twiun> jmop: sftp is different to ftp
[18:18:14] <dvoss> The answer is JTable. I don't think JList passes events to its renderers; I think it just uses their paint method.
[18:18:56] <jmop> http://eden.rutgers.edu/~gravener/expression.java
[18:18:57] <Drone> That URL gave the following error code: 404 Not Found
[18:19:26] <jmop> http://eden.rutgers.edu/~gravener/Expression.java
[18:19:40] <timofeyc> roots_: I could just put each nest in a separate well named-method, but I like your 'verbose' filter interface method more than just 'avoid deep nesting'
[18:19:55] <jmop> anyway to shorten my isLegallyMatched and BuildSymbols?
[18:20:30] <timofeyc> roots_:what license does that code go under
[18:20:34] <timofeyc> ?
[18:20:58] <roots_> license ?
[18:21:04] <timofeyc> just kidding
[18:21:20] <roots_> WTFPL
[18:21:21] <timofeyc> maybe the GIRCPL?
[18:21:27] <roots_> no WTFPL
[18:21:52] <roots_> dvoss: jtable doesnt "pass" events to its renderers either
[18:22:45] <roots_> it does a few things only, eg it passes tooltips
[18:23:00] <roots_> but for that it prepares and initializes the renderer again
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[18:36:21] <pchapman> http://rafb.net/paste/results/OuEjh380.html
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[18:37:06] <pchapman> This code usually works to highlight the entire context of a text field when a user tabs into it.  It doesn't work with JFormattedTextField though.
[18:37:11] <rogue-kun{B}> pchapman: aswer or question? 8)
[18:37:16] <pchapman> Anyone have other suggestions?
[18:37:24] <rogue-kun{B}> on sec..
[18:37:41] <pchapman> rogue-kun{B}, A question for alternate solutions.
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[18:40:48] <mohadib> pchapman: how does it not work?
[18:41:01] <roots_> could be the view or some sync issue
[18:41:05] <roots_> pchapman: try  invokeLater
[18:41:28] <roots_> focusGatined (FocusEvent e) { SwingUtilities.invokeLater(new Runnable() { public void run() { yourcode; } }; }
[18:41:36] <roots_> just for curiousity let me know if it changes a thing
[18:41:39] <pchapman> mohadib, Something somewhere is overridding my text selection 'cause it runs through the code, but the end result doesn't have selected text.
[18:41:45] <pchapman> roots_, I'll try it....
[18:42:40] <mohadib> well , so does the focus lost evenbt get ran then it passes a focus lost event to the listeners?
[18:43:33] <mohadib> like , is the focus lost action behavior blocking the passing of the event?
[18:43:55] <roots_> mohadib: how could that possibly be the case ?
[18:44:13] <pchapman> mohadib, No.  The focus lost event isn't getting run until after the focus gained has passed and control has lost focus.
[18:44:48] <pchapman> (If I'm understanding your question right)
[18:44:49] <roots_> jvmti++
[18:45:17] <pchapman> roots_, That worked.
[18:45:28] <roots_> pchapman: maybe something else is scheduled by invokeLater
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[18:45:34] <roots_> that means you must use invokeLater yourself
[18:45:40] <roots_> to schedule your stuff to come behind
[18:45:41] <mohadib> im saying JFormatedTextField has setFocusLostBehavior(int behavior)
[18:45:53] <roots_> in large apps you end up with bizarre invokeLater cascades
[18:46:03] <pchapman> roots_, yeah.  I'm surprised I didn't think of that.
[18:46:48] <pchapman> mohadib, Does setFocusLostBehavior(int) affect focus gained?
[18:46:58] * pchapman wonders into API docs.
[18:47:09] <mohadib> no , im sorry , i thought your event was failing on unfocus
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[18:48:07] <pchapman> mohadib, No onfocus.  Roots_ gave me the obvious solution of pushing the selection code onto the end of the schedule.
[18:48:21] <mohadib> sure , seems hackish
[18:48:26] <mohadib> but , thats swing ;p
[18:48:44] <pchapman> Agreed.
[18:48:45] <ricky_clarkson> roots_: They've fucked up funkypool by giving it sidespin and fancy graphics, it doesn't respond properly atm. ;(
[18:49:05] <roots_> my BCI jvmti based agent was so cool
[18:49:08] <pchapman> I've never used a UI toolkit that I didn't have to use hacks on occasion.
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[18:49:20] <roots_> but now the bytecode manipuation crap from sun breaks for real
[18:49:25] <pchapman> Some are worse than others.  :-D
[18:49:25] <roots_> i have to roll my own
[18:49:33] <roots_> pchapman: i did motif for a living
[18:50:13] <pchapman> roots_, I've never used motif.  All I know is what I remember from old manuals on unix C programming.
[18:50:23] <pchapman> == not much.
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[18:51:10] <roots_> i am just saying swing is not bad when you put it into a perspective with stuff like motif
[18:51:33] <roots_> i have also worked with tk, qt, wxwindows, win32, mfc, windows forms 1/2
[18:51:35] <pchapman> roots_, Ah.  I agree.  I've used other frameworks that were worse.
[18:51:45] <roots_> oh and mostly i do swt/jface crap
[18:52:06] <mohadib> roots_: do you like swt?
[18:52:11] <roots_> no
[18:52:12] <roots_> its ok
[18:52:19] <pchapman> I've wanted to play w/ swt, but have never had a project that required it.
[18:53:04] <roots_> some stuff from the eclipse universe is cool
[18:53:07] <roots_> other stuff isnt
[18:55:03] <pchapman> I know that VB is not a populate subject, but creating UIs in VB was drop dead easy....  Untill you needed to do something the M$ gods had not forseen.
[18:55:13] <roots_> yipp
[18:55:17] <roots_> i forgot to mention VB
[18:55:20] <pchapman> s/populate/popular/
[18:55:23] <roots_> but with dot.net it is still no better
[18:55:25] <pchapman> Then you quickly spiral into hell.
[18:55:29] <roots_> except that now VB is a cool language
[18:55:48] <roots_> all the 90% working ocx addons didnt add stability either
[18:56:10] * pchapman nods knowingly
[18:56:34] <roots_> waiting for a conference ...
[18:56:38] <roots_> its overdue since 50 minutes
[18:56:50] <roots_> customer is in sillicon valley but i am in germany
[18:57:01] <roots_> i actually want to go home before my daugther sleeps
[18:58:04] <roots_> anyhow windows forms 2 has some nice stuff again
[18:58:27] <roots_> but still the MS feeling of something seriously buggy but still fixed due to immense testing/repairing
[18:58:31] <roots_> and based on win32 again
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[18:58:59] <roots_> its so weird as you have a callback for the create windows win32 api you can have a ToolStrip that is actually a listview :>
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[19:05:53] <Tartaros> is there a decompiler/class browser for java that would be similar to .NET Reflector?
[19:06:12] <mohadib> no
[19:06:44] <Clackwell> mohadib: can you translate what he said?
[19:07:00] <cheeser> javabot: tell Tartaros about reflection
[19:07:00] <javabot> Tartaros, reflection is http://java.sun.com/tutorial/reflect
[19:07:04] <Clackwell> i usually reply with something equally incomprehensible
[19:07:29] <Tartaros> cheeser: thank you but I know what is reflection. I'm talking about code decompiler
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[19:07:42] <Clackwell> Tartaros: there are decompilers, yes.
[19:07:52] <cheeser> javabot: jad
[19:07:52] <javabot> cheeser, jad is a Java decompiler, see http://www.kpdus.com/jad.html - It's also a MIDlet download descriptor.
[19:07:57] <papaJohn> hey guys
[19:08:00] <Tartaros> ok, is there any that is good, uptodate, and open source?
[19:08:16] <papaJohn> looking for compliance analyzer for Java, any hints ?
[19:08:26] <cheeser> compliance to what?
[19:08:37] <papaJohn> need to do a code review
[19:08:52] <pchapman> javac will ensure that your code complies to java standards.  :-)
[19:08:57] <Tartaros> ok, I know about jad, but I'd need one that is open source
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[19:09:09] <cheeser> jad is open source...
[19:09:13] <cheeser> i thought.
[19:09:14] <Tartaros> no it's not
[19:09:16] <papaJohn> something similar to this http://www.programmingresearch.com/HICPP
[19:09:16] <Sou|cutter> ~tell papaJohn about testng
[19:09:16] <javabot> papaJohn, I have no idea what testng is.
[19:09:19] <cheeser> hrm.  oh, well.
[19:09:24] <Tartaros> Q1: Is the source code of Jad available?
[19:09:24] <Tartaros> A1: Currently I have no plans to release the Jad source code for any purposes including porting to other computer platforms.
[19:09:32] <Sou|cutter> whoa, that needs to be a factoid
[19:09:32] <cheeser> decompiling java code has never really been an interest of mine.
[19:09:37] <Tartaros> (that's from FAQ on that address)
[19:09:52] <Sou|cutter> Tartaros: is JAD programmed in java?  Maybe it can decompile itself
[19:10:05] * Sou|cutter shrugs
[19:10:16] <Tartaros> yeah but that doesn't mean it's open source :P
[19:10:18] <tezem> I wrote a javadoc task in Ant to generate the documentation out of my project and it works but I also get errors because he tries to build the javadoc for the commons logging API. I tried excludepackagenames="org.apache.commons.*" but this don't work for me. Any suggestions?
[19:10:22] <Sou|cutter> Tartaros: why the open source req anyway?
[19:10:59] <Tartaros> well I'd like to be able to redistribute a modified version, maybe, once :)
[19:11:21] <Tartaros> one that is able of class browsing, like the above mentioned .NET Reflector
[19:12:00] <Sou|cutter> ~testng is a testing framework that many consider more powerful than jUnit.  For more information check out their homepage http://testng.org/
[19:12:01] <javabot> Okay, Sou|cutter.
[19:12:02] <Tartaros> the Reflector is really an amazing tool and I wonder how is it possible that nothing like that exists for java
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[19:12:18] <Sou|cutter> Tartaros: Is reflector open source?
[19:12:19] <mankeletor> hi
[19:12:22] <cowbud> When I try to compile a class that is extending another it errors complaing about the constructor for my abstract class not being there...
[19:12:34] <Tartaros> Sou|cutter: no
[19:12:45] <Sou|cutter> Tartaros: =P
[19:12:52] <Tartaros> Sou|cutter: so what? :)
[19:12:52] <cheeser> put the compile error on the pastebin.
[19:12:55] <mankeletor> how can i create a verctor in java?
[19:12:58] <cheeser> i think i know what it is.
[19:13:00] <Sou|cutter> Tartaros: I dunno, that's your requirement not mine
[19:13:05] <cheeser> javabot: tell mankeletor about javadoc Vector
[19:13:05] <javabot> mankeletor, please see java.util.Vector: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/Vector.html
[19:13:08] <cheeser> javabot: tell mankeletor about javadoc ArrayList
[19:13:08] <javabot> mankeletor, please see java.util.ArrayList: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/ArrayList.html
[19:13:13] <Tartaros> it does have some plugin capabilities and such
[19:13:17] <cheeser> mankeletor: it's recommended you use ArrayList
[19:13:34] <mankeletor> ok thanks
[19:13:37] <cheeser> sure
[19:13:42] <Tartaros> Sou|cutter: it's my requrement if I was to code a class browser based on the decompiler
[19:13:45] <slava> any opengl experts here?
[19:14:05] <slava> is there a difference between two textures with GL_ALPHA and GL_LUMINANCE_ALPHA, where the latter has the same value for both components?
[19:14:11] <slava> will they render the same?
[19:14:23] <Tartaros> while the Reflector would be my model so to say
[19:14:42] <{eng}bar4ka> slava: wrong channel
[19:14:46] <slava> isn't the reflector like the smalltalk browser, but it decompiles code instead of using a source database?
[19:14:56] <slava> why is that useful?
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[19:15:06] <Tartaros> I dont know the smalltalk broser :)
[19:15:23] <slava> you have a list of classes, a list of methods, you click a method and it shows the code in a text area
[19:15:31] <slava> there's buttons for find callers etc
[19:15:40] <josue_m> hello, sorry if this q is os obviues but I'm a newbie,  how to compile java .jar package?
[19:15:46] <Sou|cutter> slava: for some people that type of interface is more intuitive I suppose
[19:15:49] <Tartaros> but the Reflector produces decompiled code that is hypertextual, so that you can click on any used class/method/etc and it takes you to their declaration
[19:16:23] <Tartaros> plus you can for example have it generate a so called "calle graph", i.e. you see where is a given method called from
[19:16:41] <slava> Sou|cutter: i like the smalltalk browser concept, it is "hyperlinked" like Tartaros is saying, except it uses the actual source code
[19:16:45] <Tartaros> could be similar to the smalltalk thingy, yes
[19:16:50] <slava> Sou|cutter: i find decompiled code unreadable -- no comments, identifier names are lost, etc
[19:17:12] <Tartaros> yeah it becomes a bit unreadable for longer method bodies
[19:17:28] <Sou|cutter> slava: depends on the code.  short methods tend to be ok.
[19:18:12] <Tartaros> anyway I'm used to use the Reflector and it really helps a lot
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[19:18:16] <Sou|cutter> slava: but I know what you mean... I never have a need to decompile things.  Either the source is available or it's not
[19:19:07] <Tartaros> yeah but the point of the decompiler is that you can semlessly browse to underlying libraries etc
[19:19:21] <slava> Tartaros: just use smalltalk where all the source is in a database :)
[19:19:36] <Tartaros> well that's another extrem which I don't like
[19:19:51] <Tartaros> plus I would be doing this program for a java class at uni, so... :)
[19:19:53] <Sou|cutter> Tartaros: in IDEA you can specify the source location for libraries, and you can then jump into the code.  I'm sure eclipse  is similar.  So if you don't have the source, use a tool like jad to create it, point your IDE at it, and there you go
[19:19:54] <slava> Sou|cutter: here is a decompiling browser. factor preserves comments though: http://factor.modalwebserver.co.nz/responder/browser/
[19:20:09] <slava> Sou|cutter: even then its hard to read some definitions because indentation is lost
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[19:20:24] <Sou|cutter> it'd probably be easy to make a decompiler plugin for IDEs (they probably already exist)
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[19:20:44] <Sou|cutter> ah, yep there's IdeaJad
[19:21:20] <Tartaros> yeah there are some
[19:21:32] <Tartaros> I have yet to look at them
[19:21:34] <Tartaros> anyway, gtg
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[19:23:44] <cored> hello guys
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[19:28:36] * pandora-- waves
[19:28:42] <slava> hi cored
[19:29:56] <dvoss> ~tell me about testng
[19:29:56] <javabot> dvoss, testng is a testing framework that many consider more powerful than jUnit.  For more information check out their homepage http://testng.org/
[19:30:04] <dvoss> Spiffy.
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[19:31:40] <dvoss> ~tell me about pasting
[19:31:40] <javabot> dvoss, The limit for pasting here is 2 lines.  Any more than that goes to the pastebin.
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[19:31:55] <dvoss> ~tell me about the pastebin
[19:31:55] <javabot> dvoss, I guess the factoid 'pastebin francais' might be appropriate:
[19:31:57] <javabot> dvoss, n'inondez pas le canal, emploient le pastebin, http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin ou http://rafb.net/paste
[19:32:13] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell dvoss about useless tell
[19:32:13] <javabot> dvoss, when telling yourself something, just use ~something, not ~tell me about something or ~tell MyNick about something.  Save those precious fingers.  Mmm, Cadbury's Fingers.
[19:32:15] <cored> Seadog: hey how you doing ? :-)
[19:32:18] <vinse> playing with the bot can be done in pm's
[19:32:23] <dvoss> :)
[19:32:30] <Seadog> hi
[19:32:33] <Seadog> fine thanks, you?
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[19:40:54] <mohadib> ~jaxp
[19:40:54] <javabot> mohadib, jaxp is Java API for XML Processing at http://java.sun.com/xml/jaxp/  A tutorial for 1.1 can be found http://java.sun.com/xml/jaxp/dist/1.1/docs/tutorial/ (Note: J2SE 5.0 uses JAXP 1.3 )
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[19:52:56] * Nosf3ratu waves hello.
[19:53:13] <ricky_clarkson> Hello hello.
[19:53:31] <loos> Hi, if I have a css rule #george{background: #00FF00;} and I use javascript to set the id of a new element to "george" will CSS redraw the element?
[19:53:33] <loos> Hello :)
[19:53:56] <ricky_clarkson> loos: What has that got to do with Java?
[19:53:57] <loos> or is this the wrong channel for that question (#javascript guys sent me over here)
[19:54:12] <loos> I asked in #javascript and they said "Ask #java" :(
[19:54:18] <Nosf3ratu> I've got a Data object that I've created with an integer representation of the epoch, and when I try to then use this "myDate" date object to the Calendar object's .setTime method, its .getTime method returns an incorrect date.
[19:54:27] <ricky_clarkson> There's no Java involved there.  Try #web.
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[19:54:45] <loos> ricky_clarkson: Kay, I sorta wondered why they said java, thanks for the info.
[19:54:49] <jdolan> http://entertainment.tv.yahoo.com/entnews/ap/20051013/112921248000.html
[19:54:57] <jdolan> anyone else have a hard time reading that 2nd paragraph?
[19:55:02] <Nosf3ratu> And, yes, the epoch integer is correct (maybe an hour off...) but c.getTime reports it as Jan 14th, 1970 @ 8pm. : (
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[19:56:08] <Nosf3ratu> Anyone know why this might be?
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[19:56:25] <pandora--> epoch is a long
[19:56:25] <pandora--> btw.
[19:56:30] * pchapman wonders if loos has any capacity for free-thinking at all.
[19:56:51] <pandora--> Nosf3ratu: it might be timezone correting
[19:56:57] <pandora--> are you doing it from GMT
[19:57:03] * pandora-- isnt really paying attention
[19:57:03] <Nosf3ratu> pandora--, correct, that's what I've read.  But I've derived it from ints, and I can't convert to a long without javac complaining that I'm losing precision.
[19:57:30] <pandora--> int i = (int)myEpochLong
[19:57:34] <pandora--> ?
[19:57:38] <Nosf3ratu> No, the other way around.
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[19:57:47] <Nosf3ratu> long date = (long)myEpochInt
[19:58:08] <ricky_clarkson> jdolan: I think the closing " is in the wrong place.
[19:58:36] <Nosf3ratu> I've created the int from two 16bit ints read from a modbus api over ethernet.
[19:59:25] <jdolan> ricky_clarkson, yes, either that, or it was written by a very bias reporter :)
[20:00:05] <ricky_clarkson> Oar ann illiteret.
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[20:01:03] <jdolan> hehe
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[20:02:04] * Nosf3ratu wonders if he's being unclear, or if no one knows the answer.
[20:02:27] <Peter> is java the same code on all different platrofrms?
[20:02:31] <Peter> platforms*
[20:02:50] <Nosf3ratu> Peter, the source is, yes ...
[20:03:01] <pchapman> The compiled bytecode is too.
[20:03:26] <Peter> so there'd be no problems using my powerbook for coding when my lecturer only uses windows?
[20:03:27] <Nosf3ratu> Peter, the only thing different is the JVM, which runs the bytecode on the machine.
[20:03:50] <Nosf3ratu> Peter, not really.  These are all fundamentals, though.
[20:03:56] <Nosf3ratu> You professor should have taught that on day 1.
[20:03:57] <Nosf3ratu> :)
[20:04:20] <pchapman> Peter, The only time you might have differences is if you use JNI to call native libraries.
[20:04:45] <pchapman> Then the difference is in the library, not the java code/bytecode
[20:05:15] <Nosf3ratu> Doubt he'll get into anything that advanced...
[20:07:15] <cheeser> Peter: that'd be fine
[20:07:31] <Peter> fun
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[20:17:02] <puff> I'm thinking about how to implement a security/privacy policy in a webapp.
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[20:18:27] <puff> Anybody familiar with how HttpServletRequest.isUserInRole() is implementeD?
[20:21:10] <Nosf3ratu> Ok, so if all I have at my disposal is the epoch, how can I set the proper date AND time of a Calendar object?
[20:21:44] <ricky_clarkson> new Calendar();
[20:22:40] <Nosf3ratu> Yeah, but how do I set it?
[20:22:45] <ricky_clarkson> To what?
[20:22:47] <Nosf3ratu> there is no .setfromepoch(int)
[20:22:52] <Nosf3ratu> To a value I have read from a device.
[20:23:13] <ricky_clarkson> ~javadoc Calendar
[20:23:13] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, please see java.util.Calendar: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/Calendar.html
[20:23:57] <Nosf3ratu> All the methods of Calendar assume I have known values for named fields like MONTH, DAY, etc...
[20:23:57] <ricky_clarkson> Nosf3ratu: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/Calendar.html#setTimeInMillis(long)
[20:24:07] <ricky_clarkson> ~rfd Nosf3ratu
[20:24:08] <javabot> Nosf3ratu, you might want to read this book: http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Stu/cwalerst/reading%20for%20dummies.gif
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[20:26:15] <Nosf3ratu> ricky, I've used the setTime method.  It doesn't set the date properly.
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[20:26:34] <PPSD> hi
[20:26:35] <ricky_clarkson> setTimeInMillis
[20:27:05] <PPSD> what's the fastest way to reset all elements of an (already used) int[] array to 0.
[20:27:10] <PPSD> =
[20:27:11] <PPSD> ?
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[20:27:17] <ricky_clarkson> PPSD: System.arraycopy.
[20:27:34] <Nosf3ratu> ah ... trying that.
[20:27:45] <PPSD> ricky_clarkson: nothing like setmem?
[20:27:48] <ricky_clarkson> You definitely want that book.
[20:28:19] <PPSD> ricky_clarkson: cause for arraycopy i would need a second array, right?
[20:28:27] <ricky_clarkson> PPSD: Right.
[20:28:40] <ricky_clarkson> You can use a for loop too.
[20:28:42] <Markov> what about array = {0}; ?
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[20:29:10] <PPSD> no the array is really huge and already used and shall be reset to 0... so a simple loop is the fastest way?
[20:29:27] <PPSD> so i don't have to reallocate memory
[20:29:35] <ricky_clarkson> PPSD: What's wrong with allocating memory?
[20:30:00] <PPSD> ricky_clarkson: slower than using "old" memory?
[20:30:03] <ricky_clarkson> Have you got a performance problem?
[20:30:21] <PPSD> yep serious problems, now trying to get every millisecond out of it
[20:30:28] <ricky_clarkson> Use a profiler.
[20:30:45] <PPSD> well i know what the problems are ;)
[20:30:53] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell PPSD about premature optimisation
[20:30:54] <PPSD> at least i think so...
[20:30:54] <javabot> PPSD, premature optimisation is what people with small boxes do; wait until you have a problem before you start optimising, otherwise you just waste loads of time trying to guess where the problems are.  Profilers are far more accurate than you.
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[20:31:22] <PPSD> is there an easy to use profiler for windows?
[20:31:26] <ricky_clarkson> ~profiler
[20:31:27] <javabot> ricky_clarkson, profiler is a tool to find performance bottlenecks.  jmp and ejp are gratis; optimizeit, jprofiler and jprobe cost money.  Some more are listed here: http://javafaq.mine.nu/lookup?169 .
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[20:34:37] <Drone> That URL gave the following error: java.net.ConnectException, Connection timed out
[20:34:47] * ricky_clarkson is glad to see he didn't scare cilquirm away.
[20:34:58] <ricky_clarkson> Who runs that, is it Clackwell?
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[20:35:21] <cilquirm> ricky_clarkson: give me some time :-)
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[20:48:39] <Baughn> Given that there are no global functions, what is the correct place to put pure (as in FP) utility functions?
[20:49:26] <cilquirm> Baughn: as statics in a class
[20:49:58] <Baughn> cilquirm: Right, but which one? Should I create a "class g"?
[20:50:21] <cilquirm> Baughn: uh.. depends on how you want to group them.. see java.lang.Math for an example
[20:50:24] <cybereal> Baughn: whatever you want
[20:50:45] <Baughn> cilquirm: Java.lang.Math would be a good place. Is there any way I can stick it in there?
[20:50:52] <cilquirm> Baughn: no
[20:51:04] <cybereal> Baughn: everybody has their concept of organization, personally I put them on the classes that they mostly apply to, if that's indeterminable then I make a utility class.
[20:51:24] <cilquirm> Baughn: you can make a class called com.mycompany.MyMath or com.mycompany.BaughnMath
[20:52:09] <Baughn> cilquirm: ..right. I'll see if I can stick this in the Lisp bit of the Lisp interpreter, then.
[20:52:54] <Baughn> (As it'll probably turn into a compiler eventually anyway)
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[21:01:28] <PPSD> another question: i have a strange problem, when running this line:      for (int i=0; i<n; i++) c[s[a[i]+offset]]++;   it takes 5 times longer with offset=0 than with offset=0 for the same c[],s[],a[] and n... any ideas?
[21:01:44] <ricky_clarkson> PPSD: Repeat with sense.
[21:01:58] <PPSD> pardon me?
[21:02:07] <ricky_clarkson> Reads what you wrote.
[21:02:16] <ricky_clarkson> !s/Reads/Read/
[21:02:17] <Drone> ricky_clarkson: Read what you wrote.
[21:02:21] <ricky_clarkson> Drone: I just did!
[21:02:39] <PPSD> oh
[21:02:48] <PPSD> 5 times longer with offset=0 then with offset=2
[21:02:56] <PPSD> !s/then/than
[21:03:27] <ricky_clarkson> PPSD: Do you test both in the same run?
[21:03:37] <PPSD> no but "one function call later"
[21:03:46] <PPSD> same program run yes
[21:03:48] <ricky_clarkson> PPSD: Try swapping the order of the two tests around.
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[21:04:51] <PPSD> yep now =2 ist slower than =1 , the one which was called later
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[21:05:04] <PPSD> !s/=1/=0     sorry ;-\
[21:05:20] <ricky_clarkson> Welcome to the world of useless benchmarks.
[21:05:31] <PPSD> why?
[21:05:31] <cybereal> yay
[21:05:34] <unbekannt> I have a (hopefully) quick quesiton about generics;  suppose  HashMap<String,?> h  is a method parameter
[21:05:38] <ricky_clarkson> Why what?
[21:05:44] <PPSD> ricky_clarkson: why useless?
[21:05:45] <cilquirm> PPSD: microbenchmarks
[21:05:54] <cilquirm> PPSD: try running in interpreted mode only
[21:05:55] <unbekannt> ArrayList<HashMap> r = h.get("resources");   <== why would that be an incompatible assignement?
[21:06:01] <ricky_clarkson> PPSD: Because you only needed to test one after the other and the results were reversed.
[21:06:26] <PPSD> ricky_clarkson: ok but the time is actually spent so why is the later call slower?
[21:06:39] <ricky_clarkson> The later call is faster.
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[21:07:00] <PPSD> no slower
[21:07:03] <ricky_clarkson> unbekannt: What the hell is h, and what does h.get("resources") return?
[21:07:19] <ricky_clarkson> PPSD: That might be while the JIT is compiling the bytecode.
[21:07:27] <unbekannt> ricflazz:  HashMap<String,?> h  is a method parameter
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[21:07:38] <PPSD> ricky_clarkson: but i'm running a compiled .class file
[21:07:49] <PPSD> ah
[21:07:51] <cilquirm> PPSD: bytecode and JIT are two very different things
[21:07:55] <ricky_clarkson> PPSD: JIT not JVM.
[21:08:01] <cybereal> unbekannt: why isn't it HashMap<String, HashMap> ?
[21:08:16] <unbekannt> because sometimes it has a Byte() or a Long() or ....
[21:08:22] <PPSD> ricky_clarkson: so there is no solution to this?
[21:08:29] <unbekannt> it's data from an external source (xmlrpc/soap) that I have no control over
[21:08:33] <Honk^away> unbekannt: and how can you tell it's an ArrayList? ;)
[21:08:46] <unbekannt> because the key "resource" is always an ArrayList
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[21:08:48] <cybereal> unbekannt: you are assigning to an ArrayList<HashMap> r, so h.get() has to return that
[21:08:48] <ricky_clarkson> unbekannt: Try casting it.
[21:08:52] <Honk^away> unbekannt: well.. cast it :P
[21:09:05] <unbekannt> I did; but then javac gets angry with unchecked warnings
[21:09:08] <ricky_clarkson> Of course, that will be an unsafe or unchecked operation.
[21:09:15] <unbekannt> so, I suppose I'll have to live with the warnings?
[21:09:18] <ricky_clarkson> No.
[21:09:35] <ricky_clarkson> So you'll have to copy the data from the returned HashMap into your HashMap.
[21:09:49] <ricky_clarkson> s/your/a new/
[21:10:06] * unbekannt hmmmms; okay, I'll give that a shot
[21:10:18] <PPSD> sorry guys but again, why is the same function call (except one integer offset) executed at different speeds?
[21:10:19] <ricky_clarkson> This is one of the limitations of generics being compile-time only.
[21:10:32] <cybereal> PPSD: benchmark them individually
[21:10:51] <ricky_clarkson> PPSD: Most likely because you don't know how to benchmark accurately.
[21:11:25] <PPSD> ricky_clarkson: but i even "see" the difference between 100ms and 500ms on the screen so this can be no fault of measurement
[21:11:28] <mohadib> wow , some of sun's java tutorials are not very well written...
[21:11:40] <cheeser> most of them are years old.
[21:11:40] <cybereal> hah some
[21:11:52] <cheeser> they're being updated, though.  new ones are supposed to be released in Nov.
[21:12:01] <ricky_clarkson> PPSD: Java starts by interpreting, then thinks, hmm, if I think about this I can do it better using native instructions.  Then it works out the native instructions and starts running them.
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[21:12:05] <ricky_clarkson> So speed is very variable.
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[21:12:29] <PPSD> and no way around that (except using c or something) ?
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[21:12:38] <ricky_clarkson> Why would you want a way around that?
[21:12:41] <rizzo> Does anyone in here use NetBeans 4.1?
[21:12:53] <ricky_clarkson> You can choose everything to be slow by using interpreted mode as someone said.
[21:13:01] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell PPSD about jvm options
[21:13:01] <javabot> PPSD, jvm options is http://blogs.sun.com/roller/resources/watt/jvm-options-list.html
[21:13:06] <PPSD> because i saw the function running in 100ms and don't want to let it take 500ms
[21:13:23] <ricky_clarkson> PPSD: What value of n did you have?
[21:13:34] <cybereal> PPSD: time it 10 times in a row
[21:13:38] <ricky_clarkson> PPSD: Do you have a performance problem?
[21:13:43] <PPSD> around 60000000
[21:13:56] <PPSD> yea i know profiling but that is the point i figured out
[21:14:24] <ricky_clarkson> I had Java incrementing ints and it was wrapping past Integer.MAX_VALUE in a couple of seconds.
[21:14:41] <mohadib> cheeser: nice , the tutorial I'm reading now suggests to use * imports and they create everyting in the main , thus all fields that are used are static ... i just think this could confuse a nre java programmer
[21:15:01] <mohadib> new
[21:15:06] <PPSD> ricky_clarkson: so?
[21:15:21] <ricky_clarkson> So even 60000000 is a microbenchmark.
[21:15:37] <PPSD> ricky_clarkson: but look at the array operations in that line of code i posted
[21:15:39] <ricky_clarkson> And if you run two benchmarks in the same JVM you are losing accuracy.
[21:15:50] <ricky_clarkson> What line of code?
[21:15:52] <ricky_clarkson> I lost it.
[21:16:06] <PPSD> for (int i=0; i<n; i++)	 c[s[a[i]+offset]]++;
[21:16:52] <ricky_clarkson> Great.
[21:17:15] <PPSD> ?
[21:17:32] <ricky_clarkson> What's special about those array operations?
[21:17:40] <PPSD> i tried to point out that its the array operations which are taking time and not increasing the int
[21:17:42] <cheeser> mohadib: definitely
[21:18:13] <ricky_clarkson> PPSD: I tried to point out that it's still a microbenchmark.
[21:18:21] <PPSD> hmm well ok
[21:18:29] <ricky_clarkson> PPSD: Real benchmarks run over longer periods to eliminate startup bias.
[21:18:29] <PPSD> thanks
[21:18:39] * cheeser nods sagely.
[21:19:19] <PPSD> ricky_clarkson: yea i got that but what i saw is that this strange in decrease of speed in the later calls costs me around 30 seconds totally
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[21:20:54] <lunk> ernimril: think you mispeel license on your site
[21:21:25] <ricky_clarkson> lunk: How?
[21:21:49] <lunk> licence
[21:21:54] <ricky_clarkson> That's not a misspelling.
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[21:24:40] <lunk> it isn't?
[21:24:44] <unbekannt> thanks everyone
[21:25:02] <lunk> European Computer Driving Licence (ECDL)
[21:25:03] <lunk> lol
[21:25:11] <lunk> http://www.ecdl.co.uk/
[21:25:14] <lunk> do you have yours?
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[21:28:22] <cybereal> lunk: British English vs. American English ... spelling differences here and there.  Like Color vs. Colour and License vs. Licence.
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[21:28:36] <AlphaOmega_wrk> Shoppe and shop
[21:28:42] <ricky_clarkson> We don't say shoppe.
[21:28:42] <lunk> Boot and Trunk
[21:29:03] <lunk> Vacation and Holiday
[21:29:06] <AlphaOmega_wrk> sheshule, schedule
[21:29:06] <cybereal> Shoppe isn't British, it's retard.
[21:29:17] <ernimril> lunk: I know what I use and it is correct according to the classes I had to take when I was young...
[21:29:18] <ricky_clarkson> Actually licence and license are both valid in UK English, but have different meanings.
[21:29:32] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: what's the difference?
[21:29:34] <lunk> ernimril: n/p looked funny is all
[21:29:41] <ricky_clarkson> license is a verb.
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[21:30:01] <snow_ru> hm
[21:30:08] <ernimril> lunk: perhaps, nowdays I mix a bit of brittish and american english...
[21:30:09] <cybereal> I see, license is a verb here too.
[21:30:10] <ricky_clarkson> practice and practise are like that too.
[21:30:12] <lunk> language in america is well, non existant
[21:30:13] <cybereal> It's also a noun.
[21:30:19] <ernimril> lunk: damn tv/media!
[21:30:22] <ricky_clarkson> licence is the noun.
[21:30:31] <lunk> lol
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[21:30:56] <lunk> how many brits speak 'thug'?
[21:31:00] <cybereal> hehe
[21:31:00] <lunk> it's way too common over here
[21:31:14] <AlphaOmega_wrk> cigarette vs FAG
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[21:31:16] <lunk> other than Ali G
[21:31:18] <lunk> lol
[21:31:39] * cybereal hates ebonics
[21:31:48] <cybereal> stupid to accept it as a language variant
[21:31:52] <lunk> i don't hate them, i hate the people that use it
[21:31:56] <lunk> :D
[21:32:05] <slava> i use british english in personal communication, and american english for technical documentation, source code comments, etc
[21:32:08] <ricky_clarkson> Brits who speak thug pronounce it as fug.
[21:32:15] <cybereal> heh
[21:32:23] <lunk> so like 50% of suburban white kids are retarded
[21:32:28] <lunk> wait, that's been known for a while
[21:32:42] <cybereal> Yeah, that or more
[21:32:46] <slava> that's not as bad as the rate of retardation among java programmers
[21:32:50] <cybereal> hah
[21:32:55] <slava> especially in the j2ee segment, its around 90%
[21:33:16] <ricky_clarkson> The rate in Factor programmers is 100%, but there's so few that it seems a bit unfair to say.
[21:33:28] <AlphaOmega_wrk> slava : eclipse is helping them achieve retardeze
[21:33:34] <lunk> slava: thanks for that valuable addition to a humerous discussion.
[21:33:36] <AlphaOmega_wrk> i speak retardeze
[21:33:43] <ricky_clarkson> I notisst.
[21:33:45] <lunk> humorous, before you get all english nazi on me
[21:33:56] <ricky_clarkson> humourous.
[21:34:03] <slava> ricky_clarkson: actually, i'd say that anybody who does enterprise coding in corporate IT is retarded
[21:34:12] <slava> i equate this type of work with flipping burgers
[21:34:14] <lunk> slava: so you are a student for life?
[21:34:22] <cybereal> slava: hah definitely
[21:34:24] <slava> no, i just don't do "enterprise" stuff
[21:34:28] <slava> relational databases, web apps
[21:34:39] <puff> lunk: You're talking about bones?
[21:34:42] <ricky_clarkson> slava: Fair enough, but even burger flippers can have outside skills and interests.
[21:34:48] <puff> lunk: Sorry, I just had to get that in on you.
[21:35:14] <slava> ricky_clarkson: lunk's oft-lamented white suburban kids can have outside skills and interests, too.
[21:35:15] <puff> slava: I like that:  "Corporate IT coders are the burger flippers of the IT industry."
[21:35:35] <ricky_clarkson> Where does the JDK+Netbeans install the JDK home to these days?
[21:35:36] <pchapman> Which ones are the fry cooks?
[21:35:52] <ricky_clarkson> I'm just trying to give advance help to a newbie.. if someone can check (Windows).
[21:35:54] <lunk> pchapman: onsite repair
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[21:36:06] <pchapman> LOL
[21:36:18] <lunk> 15:36:13 Ignoring ALL from slava
[21:36:22] <lunk> oops
[21:36:37] <slava> oops, looks like i hit a nerve there
[21:36:41] <ricky_clarkson> Ignoring ALL plugins on slava's website.
[21:36:46] <slava> lunk: you write j2ee transaction processing for a living, do you?
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[21:37:27] <ricky_clarkson> lunk: If you've actually ignored slava over that, that seems mighty childish.
[21:37:44] <ricky_clarkson> You should ignore him over much more important things.
[21:37:47] <lunk> well i removed the ignore when he was banned
[21:38:05] <lunk> so it's not just that
[21:38:57] <ricky_clarkson> There's a picture of me that I thought looked like a less ugly Ringo Starr, and comntemplative.  My mate Jules said I looked like I was about to thump someone.
[21:39:13] <lunk> Jules?
[21:39:15] <lunk> ~english
[21:39:15] <javabot> lunk, english is http://www.bentsynapse.net/insults/images/englishpulpfiction.jpg
[21:40:04] <ricky_clarkson> Jules==Julie-Anne in this case.
[21:40:21] <lunk> haha
[21:40:27] <lunk> she sounds cute ;)
[21:40:37] <ricky_clarkson> Nah.
[21:40:44] <lunk> doh
[21:41:02] <ricky_clarkson> I don't have cute female friends, testosterone level troo high here.
[21:41:37] <lunk> haha, their levels or yours?
[21:41:45] <slava> actually, the main problem with java enterprise programmers is not any alleged retardation, but that they try to take their specific experiences with programming (working on large teams of mediocre programmers, implementing programs that are trivial algorithm-wise but heavy on I/O) and try to generalize this to all programming, or try to talk about what good code is
[21:41:47] <ricky_clarkson> Mine.
[21:42:03] <lunk> haw
[21:42:09] <slava> when in fact their idea of good code is based on a narrow segment of programming
[21:42:26] <cybereal> slava: you should make that into a factoid
[21:42:48] <slava> like the other day, meeper was saying that optimization and good algorithms are irrelevant, because programs are I/O bound
[21:43:04] <slava> this is not true in general; only some programs are I/O bound. maybe all the programs meeper has worked with (web front ends to relational databases)
[21:43:18] <cybereal> slava: last program I wrote for myself definitely wasn't I/O bound
[21:43:42] <slava> or people saying that a programming language should be as restrictive as possible, to prevent medicre team members from writing unreadable code. this is only valid if you work with mediocre programmers
[21:44:22] <ricky_clarkson> Here you are, ricky_clarkson  as ringo starr in contemplative about-to-punch-you mode: http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ricky_clarkson/album?.dir=a276&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos
[21:44:35] <ricky_clarkson> I hate those URLs.
[21:44:37] <slava> the worst is people who use the expression "in the real world"
[21:44:56] <Sou|cutter> slava: elitist
[21:44:59] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: I don't think you look like you'r going to punch anyone at all
[21:45:00] <slava> they usually mean "in my particular specialization of programming, which is <xyz>"
[21:45:02] <ricky_clarkson> slava: Unfortunately a lot of people work with mediocre programmers.
[21:45:54] <ricky_clarkson> It's actually my stood-in-car-park-in-Wales-waiting-for-gf-to-stop-taking-random-pictures gaze.
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[21:45:57] <Sou|cutter> slava: Sounds to me like you have some specific gripes about specific people or statements.  No need to extrapolate
[21:46:12] <cybereal> ricky_clarkson: you look like you're looking off in the distance and about to fall asleep
[21:46:25] <quietdisaster> haha less ugly ringo starr
[21:46:30] <quietdisaster> that's awesome ricky :)
[21:46:32] <Twiun> slava: "in the theoretical world... "
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[21:46:39] <Twiun> slava: gotta have both worldviews
[21:46:44] <Sou|cutter> "in slava's world..."
[21:46:54] <Twiun> slava: even if academics can't hack it in the Real World :)
[21:46:56] <lunk> in slava's world even slava isn't freakin' happy.
[21:46:56] * Twiun hides
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[21:47:05] <Sou|cutter> lunk: hehe
[21:47:06] <littlezoper> "in the real world" is a perfectly valid statement when dealing with people who are stuck in text books...
[21:47:16] <slava> who is stuck in text books?
[21:47:18] <lunk> sup SC
[21:47:21] <slava> people who read?
[21:47:25] <slava> or what do you mean there
[21:47:44] <quietdisaster> I've even read some text books who use that phrase, but most of the time they'll say "In industry...xyz" instead of "in the real world"
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[21:47:51] <Sou|cutter> lunk: say, is the coderz crew still around?  Who was it that had created that flash rocket/asteroid/planet/gravity game?
[21:48:04] <lunk> you mean the guy working for nasa?
[21:48:08] <littlezoper> there are many people (recent grads, for example) who read that the theory says to do something a certain, but, in the real world, things aren't always as neat and tidy as they are in text books
[21:48:19] <Sou|cutter> lunk: I don't remember who!  I just remember the game (doh!)
[21:48:23] <lunk> Sou|cutter: they're still around, slowly
[21:48:27] <lunk> heh
[21:48:44] <cybereal> littlezoper: The inverse applies
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[21:48:53] <littlezoper> true
[21:48:55] <cybereal> littlezoper: In the textbooks, things are not always as neat and tidy as they are in the real world :)
[21:49:06] <slava> littlezoper: that's a stupid statement
[21:49:07] * cheeser blinks.
[21:49:16] <Sou|cutter> if they work for nasa, I dunno if they'd be interested.  I have a friend who wanted to make a flash cartoon series and needed an animator
[21:49:38] <Sou|cutter> funny how people have ideas for work other people could do for them *grin*
[21:49:38] <slava> littlezoper: a bigger concern is people from the "real" (ie, corporate IT) world who have never read the textbooks, or didn't understand them
[21:50:24] <slava> littlezoper: too many people know how to work around every quirk in the design of hibernate, but cannot implement a basic algorithm
[21:50:49] <cheeser> and yet those people get the job done.
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[21:50:54] <snow_ru> sorry cheeser
[21:50:56] <AlphaOmega_wrk> and get paid
[21:50:59] <cheeser> snow_ru: for?
[21:51:05] <lunk> ernimril: \o/ got your profiler working, now to figure out how to use it to get some meaningful results. Thanks for building it
[21:51:18] <snow_ru> interface COntentHandler has anything special ... that was hidden behind ?
[21:51:22] <slava> cheeser: and would they get the job done worse if they knew wtf they were doing?
[21:51:27] <ernimril> lunk: what do you want to know? memory or cpu usage?
[21:51:34] <lunk> meomry
[21:51:40] <Sou|cutter> slava: pure theoretical knowledge doesn't always fit the bill either.  Obviously some combination of theory and practice is desirable (and that's why good programmers generally don't have trouble finding jobs -- they have both)
[21:51:44] <ernimril> lunk: good...
[21:52:02] <cheeser> slava: i never said that did I?
[21:52:03] <slava> Sou|cutter: theory is just practical knowledge that has been formalized and boiled down to basic principles
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[21:52:13] <slava> Sou|cutter: there is no real distinction
[21:52:17] <snow_ru> cheeser, you known... I declare a variable in the class myContentHandler ( implements ContentHandler) ... when it finished parsing...my variable turns to NULL
[21:52:39] <slava> the knowledge in littlezoper's oft-lamented textbooks came from practice, it was just not invented out of the blue
[21:52:39] <cheeser> snow_ru: i'm gonna have to see code for that to matter.
[21:52:40] <littlezoper> slava: too many academics get caught up on the perfect solution, when a good enough solution could have been cheaper and quicker.  and, yes, "real world" people need to understand theory, but good "real world" people know when to dump theory and go with practicality
[21:52:44] <cheeser> er, make sense.
[21:52:49] <ricky_clarkson> snow_ru: That can only happen if you set it to null.
[21:53:00] <snow_ru> I really do not set it to null
[21:53:09] <snow_ru> I use "watch variable" to see it..
[21:53:24] <ricky_clarkson> So how does it become null?
[21:53:30] <snow_ru> when parsing finish..it fluzz out all my variable..
[21:53:33] <cybereal> littlezoper: do you have a point?
[21:53:35] <littlezoper> slava: i love textbooks.  got one in front of me. buti realize that the way they represent things doesn't always mesh nicely with how things work in the real worl
[21:53:45] <littlezoper> cybereal: maybe
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[21:53:49] <slava> littlezoper: i have a question for you
[21:53:54] <lunk> 7MB's character arrays, weeeeak
[21:53:54] <Sou|cutter> slava: I disagree.  I have some experience with some bright theoretical cs people whose practice is not as sharp as you might expect
[21:53:55] <Xgc> snow_ru: Maybe you're paying attention to the wrong scope.
[21:53:56] <Coffman> hi
[21:53:58] <cheeser> cybereal: these conversations never have a point.
[21:53:59] <littlezoper> i'm sure you do
[21:54:00] <slava> littlezoper: can you express what you mean wihout using the expression "in the real world"?
[21:54:03] <snow_ru> that's why I asked there is anything ...secret in interface ContentHandler
[21:54:06] <ricky_clarkson> snow_ru: Maybe you are creating a new instance and getting confused.
[21:54:07] <slava> littlezoper: try it, its fun
[21:54:18] <littlezoper> slava: i probably can, but I'm using that phrase explicitly to annoy
[21:54:20] <ricky_clarkson> ~tell snow_ru about show us
[21:54:20] <javabot> snow_ru, Paste the code in the pastebin where we can see it.  See the topic (/topic) for details.
[21:54:24] <cheeser> "in non-academic land..."
[21:54:25] <cheeser> 8^)=
[21:54:36] <ricky_clarkson> Btw, academia isn't perfect.
[21:54:36] <snow_ru> :)
[21:54:43] <Sou|cutter> ricky_clarkson: certainly
[21:54:44] <cybereal> snow_ru: there can't be anything "secret" in an interface
[21:54:50] <slava> littlezoper: ok, i'll annoy you then.
[21:54:55] <ricky_clarkson> Most stuff done by people who teach is rushed.
[21:54:59] <littlezoper> i think the moaning over "in the real world" is as pointless and pedantic as that concerning the term POJO
[21:55:02] <littlezoper> slava: too late!
[21:55:06] <slava> littlezoper:  you're just a retard who writes bad code in corporate IT, and your opinion is worthless
[21:55:21] <cybereal> hah
[21:55:22] <littlezoper> slava: oh.  that hurts.
[21:55:26] <AlphaOmega_wrk> lol
[21:55:35] <cheeser> if we're going to devolve in to name calling, i'm gonna start kicking people.
[21:55:35] <ricky_clarkson> slava: Any reason why you feel the need to attack instead of defend?
[21:55:42] <cheeser> javabot: ad hominem
[21:55:43] <javabot> people who accuse others of ad hominem attacks are of the basest, most worthless kinds individuals I've ever had the displeasure of turning my nose up to.   I spurn them as I would spurn a rabid dog.
[21:55:46] <littlezoper> that's a baseless ad hominem, as you've never seen any of my code and have no idea
[21:55:49] <ricky_clarkson> Or just converse.
[21:55:49] <slava> ricky_clarkson: because littlezoper explicitly said he was trying to annoy, rather than make a point
[21:55:59] <cybereal> cheeser: hahah
[21:56:02] <littlezoper> but you could be right.  who knows?  I get the job done.  I get paid.  I go home.  good enough for me.
[21:56:04] <cybereal> ~cheeser++
[21:56:04] <javabot> cheeser has a karma level of 142, cybereal
[21:56:06] <cheeser> slava: no.  he said he was using the phrase to annoy.
[21:56:13] <cheeser> not that he was not trying to make a point.
[21:56:26] <littlezoper> slava: i was amking a point
[21:56:34] <ricky_clarkson> Better than making a joint.
[21:56:39] <Twiun> littlezoper: and making too, I'm sure
[21:56:48] <littlezoper> "in the real world" is a valid thing to say
[21:56:52] <littlezoper> Twiun: that too :P
[21:56:59] <ricky_clarkson> cheeser: With that karma you should be careful, you might overshoot heaven.
[21:57:03] <cheeser> especially when watching The Matrix like I am.
[21:57:07] <cheeser> ricky_clarkson: 8^)=
[21:57:09] <cybereal> littlezoper: I think you completely missed slava's point in regards to that phrase
[21:57:12] <Twiun> littlezoper: I tend to say "in industry" these days
[21:57:19] <cheeser> Twiun: ooh.  good call.
[21:57:31] <slava> say what specific industrty
[21:57:34] <slava> there is no "the" industry
[21:57:36] <cheeser> dear lord
[21:57:42] <Twiun> littlezoper: one industry which just as full of fucktards as academia... they're both populated by humans afterall
[21:57:45] <cheeser> pedants of the world unite!
[21:57:52] <ricky_clarkson> The industry as opposed to private study, I think.
[21:57:55] <Sou|cutter> slava: no need to insult people even if they are bad programmers.  How about helping them and guiding them rather than calling them names.  I haven't seen littlezoper's code, even if it were shite I don't think it's worth it to sling mud
[21:57:59] <Coffman> hi, i have a date (on the database like yyyyMMdd) on the <html:text > tag of Struts i would like to write to the JSP the value as dd/MM/yyyy , its like a decorator, is that possible with struts ???
[21:58:01] <cybereal> Dyslexics of the world untie!
[21:58:04] <cheeser> Sou|cutter: because that's not the slave way!
[21:58:16] <ricky_clarkson> Freedom is Slavary.
[21:58:24] <littlezoper> cybereal: maybe so... I try not to pay too much attention to him
[21:58:25] <Sou|cutter> ricky_clarkson: hehe
[21:58:25] <cheeser> Coffman: look at the <fmt> tag in JSTL
[21:58:29] <ricky_clarkson> Ignorance is Mot.
[21:58:36] <Twiun> Sou|cutter: not unless his code's female, dressed in a bikini and ready to fight in that mud...
[21:58:39] <cheeser> mmm.  apple sauce.
[21:58:42] <ricky_clarkson> War is pr3d4t0r.
[21:58:43] <Coffman> cheeser, thanks a lot
[21:58:46] <cheeser> Coffman: np
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[21:59:26] <slava> Sou|cutter: littlezoper is a believer in creationism/intelligent design
[21:59:31] <slava> i don't think there is much we can do to save him
[21:59:37] <cybereal> ~littlezoper--
[21:59:38] <javabot> littlezoper has a karma level of 17, cybereal
[21:59:44] <littlezoper> intelligent design is science with an open mind!
[21:59:46] * [GT]Kane giggles at pr3d4t0r
[21:59:50] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o cheeser
[21:59:51] <slava> its not science.
[21:59:56] <Twiun> littlezoper: careful, you can back a truck into that gap
[21:59:57] <cheeser> we're not going to talk about that here.
[22:00:02] <littlezoper> so says you
[22:00:08] <ricky_clarkson> Thinka bout it.  If we're the product of intelligent design, what kind of intellect created slava?
[22:00:08] <littlezoper> cheeser: i agree :)
[22:00:11] * [GT]Kane cheers for cheeser
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[22:01:26] <cybereal> slava: Hey, what is the "*" in this context? val frexp : float -> float * int
[22:01:32] <slava> cybereal: a tuple
[22:01:47] <cybereal> slava: ok
[22:01:48] <slava> cybereal: int * int * int is three ints
[22:01:49] <Sou|cutter> slava: heh.  Yeah, I've had that discussion with him.  I don't think it has anything to do with programming so much.  There are tons of people out there more intelligent than me who disagree with my opinions.
[22:02:09] <slava> Sou|cutter: it shows a disregard for the scientific method, which is central to programming.
[22:02:24] <Sou|cutter> so to say that because he believes one thing, he is dumb in another thing... I don't think that is good logic
[22:02:29] <slava> Sou|cutter: i wouldn't be concerend at all if a musician, painter or bus driver did not believe in the scientific method.
[22:02:43] <slava> Sou|cutter: it doesn't matter for them. its not part of what they do.
[22:03:19] <quietdisaster> evolutionary theory isn't much of what java programmers do
[22:03:23] <Lars_G> Who doesn't beleives in scientific method?
[22:03:30] <slava> proponents of creationism
[22:03:44] <cheeser> this conversation can go elsewhere.
[22:03:45] <Lars_G> quietdisaster: The scientific method is universal and a core of all sciences, including computer science.
[22:03:50] <littlezoper> i support the scientific method fully
[22:03:57] * littlezoper wanders back to inventory...
[22:04:09] <AlphaOmega_wrk> socratic method
[22:04:11] <Lars_G> I think it's time to boycot against cheeser and his boot of steel
[22:04:25] <Lars_G> littlezoper: Ewww, I'm sorry dude. I didn't knew.
[22:04:34] <mohadib> can anyone tell me how to get the data from a Element Node? like i want the string foo in this example  <bar>foo</bar>
[22:04:36] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o pr3d4t0r
[22:04:38] *** Lars_G was kicked by pr3d4t0r (pr3d4t0r)
[22:04:42] *** mohadib was kicked by pr3d4t0r (pr3d4t0r)
[22:04:44] <Sou|cutter> pr3d4t0r: lol
[22:04:45] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o pr3d4t0r
[22:04:50] *** Lars_G has joined ##java
[22:04:50] <lunk> lol
[22:04:56] <Lars_G> Short revolt it was
[22:04:58] <nmx> heh
[22:04:59] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: hej.
[22:04:59] <Twiun> pr3d4t0r: collateral kickings?
[22:05:00] *** mohadib has joined ##java
[22:05:01] <cheeser> javabot: javadoc Node
[22:05:01] <javabot> cheeser, please see org.w3c.dom.Node: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/org/w3c/dom/Node.html
[22:05:01] <pr3d4t0r> Sou|cutter: Because dissidence will not be tolerated.
[22:05:02] <lunk> rofl
[22:05:03] <mohadib> >
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[22:05:04] <ricky_clarkson> What did mohadib do?
[22:05:05] <Sou|cutter> Lars_G: hehe
[22:05:05] <mohadib> ?
[22:05:16] <slava> cybereal: don't use tuples too much. their slots are not named so code can become unreadable. use classes/objects.
[22:05:20] <mohadib> cheeser: i am , and getNodeValue() is not getting the text
[22:05:32] <pr3d4t0r> ricky_clarkson: I don't know.  He must've done *something*, though.
[22:05:36] <slava> cybereal: its mostly for multiple return values. let (x,y) = something
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[22:05:55] <cybereal> slava: I'm not using it; I was just reading some docs and didn't know what it meant there.
[22:06:03] <mohadib> pr3d4t0r: was that for something i might have got away with?
[22:06:04] <slava> ok. like i said, buy a book :)
[22:06:10] <slava> mohadib!
[22:06:12] <cybereal> slava: no money no money!
[22:06:12] <pr3d4t0r> mohadib: Yeah.
[22:06:19] <mohadib> howdy slava
[22:06:26] * pr3d4t0r goes back to watching "Desperate Housewives".
[22:06:30] <Sou|cutter> slava: that's great advice.  Another good one is don't use maps if it's really a collection of tuples which could/should be represented as a class
[22:06:36] <pr3d4t0r> Damn, and the $2 are *reimbursable*.
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[22:06:59] <cybereal> pr3d4t0r: how?
[22:07:30] <Sou|cutter> slava: I see map abuse a surprising amount.  Hell, I'm guilty of it sometimes
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[22:08:05] <cybereal> Sou|cutter: hey, if you want to really get confused on that opinion of design, use python where all namespaces, including those of objects are maps :)
[22:08:36] <slava> its more about intention and expression of code, than specific language features
[22:08:50] <slava> even if a map and an object is the same, you should still have some kind of disction between objects and "random collections of stuff"
[22:08:55] <slava> and not use the latter where the former is better
[22:09:03] <Lars_G> Certain forms of programming tend to produce people who abuse maps.
[22:09:16] <cybereal> Agreed, I was just reminded of that design aspect of python
[22:09:29] <Sou|cutter> slava: http://jroller.com/page/slobodan?entry=object_count_impact_on_garbage <-- lots of extra objects come from using maps improperly
[22:09:41] <slava> Sou|cutter: or rather, a map implementation that allocates a lot of objects
[22:09:54] <cybereal> slava: You wouldn't to have a suggestion of a specific ML book that I might peruse while resting at the cafe in the book store would you?
[22:10:08] <pr3d4t0r> cybereal: It's a business expense.
[22:10:10] <slava> cybereal: most (all?) of the ML books i've seen are rather, err "academic".
[22:10:22] <Sou|cutter> slava: sure.  Actually I think a part of that series of blogs is creating a tighter map data structure (minimum objects necessary)
[22:10:29] <cybereal> boo
[22:10:31] <slava> cybereal: they tend to focus on symbolic and numerical algorithms, rather than application construction.
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[22:10:40] <cybereal> I see
[22:10:46] <slava> Sou|cutter: open addressing allocates less objects (just an array, really) but has worse performance. so its a trade-off
[22:11:02] <slava> Sou|cutter: java's hashmap uses bucket chaining, but making an open addressing map is pretty easy
[22:11:05] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Not all of use can easily write of bussiness expenses.
[22:11:09] <cybereal> slava: I don't see how that knowledge could hurt me... it's an area I like expertise due to limited exposure through experience.
[22:11:16] <cybereal> I lack, not like
[22:11:17] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Took me two months to convice them to buy me a DB Managing app.
[22:11:28] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: :)
[22:11:41] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: $99 app, btw, a fraction of my salary and all.
[22:11:43] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: I'm trying to convince THEM TO BUY ME ANOTHER G5.
[22:11:51] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Good luck.
[22:12:09] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Trying to setup distcc?
[22:12:25] <Lars_G> I wonder if the same would be doable for java... distj... hmmm
[22:12:30] <slava> cybereal: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/052156543X/qid=1129234334/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9338213-0947048?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
[22:12:37] * Sou|cutter nods to slava
[22:12:42] <slava> pr3d4t0r: jonathan is going to order some more ram for the mac mini.
[22:12:48] <slava> pr3d4t0r: i'm a happy man :)
[22:12:58] <cybereal> slava: thanks
[22:13:02] <Lars_G> slava: You work on a mini? how does it perform?
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[22:13:22] <slava> Lars_G: poorly.
[22:13:27] <tag> wee
[22:13:36] <{eng}bar4ka> Lars_G !!!
[22:13:40] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Good.
[22:13:45] <Lars_G> slava: What do you work in? eclipse? xcode?
[22:13:51] <slava> Lars_G: jedit
[22:13:52] <pr3d4t0r> slava: See?  I take care of my friends.  Both of you should be happy.
[22:13:59] <slava> Lars_G: i write objective C
[22:14:04] <Lars_G> slava: Ok.
[22:14:17] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Java is for sissies.
[22:14:26] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Lol.
[22:14:28] <slava> Lars_G: actually, we use xcode to compile the code. but xcode's editor is poor.
[22:14:35] * pr3d4t0r goes back to finishing this Swing application.
[22:14:40] <Lars_G> slava: Nod. so you IDE on jedit?
[22:14:53] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Dude.. swing? I'm sorry, didn't know.
[22:15:00] <slava> Lars_G: IDE is a verb meaning...?
[22:15:02] <cheeser> i like swing.
[22:15:03] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Tought you had evolved to pure J2EE already.
[22:15:14] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Pure J2EE is for retards.
[22:15:15] <Lars_G> slava: To mix cheeses for a fondue.
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[22:15:24] <slava> i'd rather be doing swing than j2ee...
[22:15:29] <slava> but cocoa is better than swing
[22:15:42] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Check out SwingX when you get a chance.
[22:15:47] <pr3d4t0r> slava: It looks  interesting.
[22:15:50] * Lars_G writes "learn obj-c" in his checklist.
[22:15:58] <tag> obj-c is fun
[22:15:59] <slava> pr3d4t0r: i won't be checking out any java stuff. i'm done with it.
[22:15:59] <Lars_G> Too sad xcode takes so much space.
[22:16:03] <tag> but it's kind of funny
[22:16:10] <tag> I get a wierd feeling whenever I use it
[22:16:17] <cybereal> Barnes & Noble carry that book and have a store several blocks from my home.. hope they have a copy and a soft chair in the cafe :)  I don't want to spend $55.00 for a book.
[22:16:18] <ricky_clarkson> "forget FORTRAN" here.
[22:16:22] <Lars_G> slava: And eclipse it not only for java, last time I saw the CDT was reaching a somehwat usseable state
[22:16:33] <slava> Lars_G: i prefer a text editor.
[22:16:45] <Lars_G> slava: Have you said goodbye to jedi then?
[22:16:53] <Lars_G> slava: jedit I meant, passed the batton?
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[22:17:00] <slava> Lars_G: there's a new developer team, and i'll still be doing bug fixes.
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[22:17:51] <Lars_G> Lets say I want to learn basic Obj-c and cocoa, what book would you recomend me?
[22:17:52] <cybereal> hm... I wonder what the odds are that my library would have anything about ML... crappy public libraries
[22:18:10] <tag> isn't there a way to just straight up theme windows
[22:18:22] <slava> Lars_G: i didn't read any books, i just started working on the code straight away.
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[22:18:27] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r:  DO you know this one? any good? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0596003013/qid=1129234678/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-9244277-4707908?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
[22:18:55] <Lars_G> slava: Yes, a hands on approach. not bad, I learn very fast with it, but I end making up messier code, by reading a little first and meanwhile, I can get a more ordered vision of the world.
[22:19:03] <snow_ru> http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8323
[22:19:05] <snow_ru> that's
[22:19:08] <snow_ru> the code
[22:19:10] <snow_ru> cheeser,
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[22:19:31] <snow_ru> please check the myArray
[22:19:50] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: If you do real work on the mac, what IDE do you use?
[22:20:21] <pr3d4t0r> slava: I have some goodies for you if you promise to throttle down your wget or cURL pull.
[22:20:26] <slava> pr3d4t0r: ok
[22:20:28] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Xcode.
[22:20:31] <slava> Lars_G: i do "real work"...
[22:20:42] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Thanks.
[22:20:54] <slava> xcode sucks for writing code. its got a few nifty features though.
[22:20:56] <Lars_G> slava: I never said you didn't but I see you as a wild madman, and I see pr3d4t0r as a mentor...
[22:20:57] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: I agree with slava about the sucking editor.
[22:21:04] <Lars_G> slava: I'd rather ask him than you :)
[22:21:20] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: slava is my mentor when it comes to coding.  I don't code much anymore.
[22:21:21] <Lars_G> ok
[22:21:25] <snow_ru> hehe, eclipse is ok , snow_ru does not haveto buy
[22:21:25] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: No interest.
[22:21:38] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: slava, on the other hand, seems to be coding even when he's wanking.
[22:21:45] <Lars_G> hahaha, ok.
[22:21:48] <slava> pr3d4t0r: coding *is* wanking to me.
[22:21:53] <slava> pr3d4t0r: don't touch my keyboard.
[22:21:57] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Yeah, figures :)
[22:22:07] <Lars_G> But he's sometimes a little too extremist for my taste. I promisse to listen more to him in the future... with a pinch of salt, but I will.
[22:22:12] * pr3d4t0r imagines slava's sticky keyboard and shudders.
[22:23:10] <cybereal> snow_ru: what's wrong with your code?
[22:23:11] <snow_ru> cybereal, have you seen my code ? http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=8323
[22:23:38] <shingoki> I'd like to try XCode
[22:23:44] <cybereal> snow_ru: what is it doing that you don't expect?
[22:23:47] <snow_ru> the myArray seems to be fluss out..
[22:23:53] <cybereal> fluss?
[22:24:02] <snow_ru> yes, It clear all my data
[22:24:03] <Lars_G> shingoki: Get a mac, you will be happy
[22:24:08] <snow_ru> flush
[22:24:08] <cybereal> snow_ru: when does it clear it?
[22:24:17] <shingoki> Lars_G, mactel... waiting for mactel...
[22:24:20] <snow_ru> when parsing finished
[22:24:21] <slava> shingoki: make sure it has at least 1gb of ram, though.
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[22:24:29] <slava> shingoki: os x is very memory hungry.
[22:24:38] <shingoki> Yup I would regard 1GB as a minimum for any computer :)
[22:24:40] <Lars_G> slava: Yup.
[22:24:41] <slava> i've been waiting about 30 seconds now for firefox to swap in
[22:24:47] <cybereal> yuck
[22:24:47] <slava> shingoki: i get by fine with 512 on my linux machine
[22:24:55] <snow_ru> cybereal, ?
[22:25:00] <shingoki> slava, ah... ok I should get 2GB then :)
[22:25:11] <cybereal> snow_ru: When do you notice that it's cleared of data?
[22:25:20] <slava> ok, its not swapping, its just hung.
[22:25:24] <shingoki> I'll get either a mac mini or an ibook I think
[22:25:25] <Lars_G> it's firefox
[22:25:32] <slava> shingoki: too slow. get a g5.
[22:25:32] <Lars_G> you can't expect no less.
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[22:25:40] <Lars_G> too sad firefox is so incredibly usefull for wbe devel.
[22:25:42] <snow_ru> cybereal, have you had my code yet ?
[22:25:44] <shingoki> slava, it will be an intel though, so it might be ok
[22:25:45] <slava> Lars_G: its more stable on x11.
[22:25:50] <slava> oh, ok.
[22:25:52] <Lars_G> else I'd live inside opera (altough it leaks after three hours of use)
[22:25:53] <slava> the g4 cpu is pretty poor.
[22:26:02] <shingoki> yeah I am gonna wait for mactel
[22:26:07] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: I rather listen to 5 minutes of slava's ranting than an hour of "sage advise" from Java guys telling me that all the hacks and workarounds they use under the guise of JSRs are a good thing.
[22:26:08] <slava> get a g5.
[22:26:13] <cybereal> snow_ru: yes, but there's nothing in here that tells me where you're noticing a problem
[22:26:21] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Hehehe, yeah.
[22:26:29] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: can I privy?
[22:26:33] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Sure.
[22:26:52] <shingoki> I can wait till next year, I want a mac I can run linux on if it all goes wrong :) And I'm hoping they will be faster/cheaper, though probably not :(
[22:26:56] <snow_ru>  System.out.println("It's so strange to receive 0 : "+ myArray.size());
[22:26:59] <snow_ru> cybereal, that line
[22:27:10] <slava> i'm getting a g5 soon
[22:27:11] <cybereal> shingoki: you can run linux on any PPC mac
[22:27:15] <Lars_G> slava: Nice.
[22:27:21] <slava> i want to own a mac before they go intel ;)
[22:27:23] <shingoki> cybereal, well yeah, but its a pain
[22:27:37] <slava> linux/ppc sucks. no 3d video drivers, for one.
[22:27:38] <shingoki> slava, get one just as they are switching, I bet they will drop the price way down
[22:27:51] <slava> shingoki: this mac mini does not belong to me, its a temporary thing.
[22:27:55] <Lars_G> slava: I am a lover of RISC myself, so I am veyr happy to have a Gn mac
[22:28:00] <shingoki> slava, ah ok.
[22:28:07] <cheeser> #mac would be a great place for this.
[22:28:14] <cybereal> snow_ru: you're not referencing, in that context, the right instance of MyXML()
[22:28:21] <shingoki> mac and cheeser
[22:28:23] <slava> Lars_G: i do assembly programming so i'd like to have various CPU architectures around
[22:28:34] <cybereal> snow_ru: you are getting this.myArray instead of contentHandler.myArray
[22:28:37] <snow_ru> ?
[22:28:41] <Lars_G> slava: Nod. I wouldn't touch x86 assembly with a stick.
[22:28:42] <snow_ru> ?
[22:29:00] <cybereal> snow_ru: "this." is implied, but you instantiated a new MyXML() instance and operated on that
[22:29:05] <slava> Lars_G: x86 assembly is fine. you only ever use a small subset of the instructions; a lot of them are deprecated now.
[22:29:29] <cybereal> snow_ru: so the myArray in that new instance is the one that will be changed, you must replace the myArray.size() on that line with contentHandler.myArray.size()
[22:29:44] <slava> Lars_G: my assembler only emits about 50 different instructions. the major omission is FPU.
[22:29:49] <Lars_G> slava: It's not the instructions per se, it's that being still a newbie to assembly I feel much more at ease having a wide supply of registers than a few restriscted registers and a stack.
[22:30:07] <snow_ru> cybereal, you seems to be right...I have to brain storm ...
[22:30:12] <slava> Lars_G: yes, it makes regsiter allocation algorithms more complicated
[22:30:35] <Lars_G> slava: Still, as long as I'm not restricted to the accumulator and one way instructions, I can handle it well.
[22:30:54] <cheeser> Lars_G: #asm can tell you
[22:31:04] <Lars_G> cheeser: Ok ok. point taken. Sorry
[22:31:06] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: The committee didn't approve the motion, sorry.
[22:31:20] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: I didn't expect less. well such is life. thanks for trying.
[22:31:28] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: Any time.
[22:31:36] * mohadib waites to get kicked again
[22:31:44] *** mohadib was kicked by cheeser (ok...)
[22:31:53] <HelloWorld82> Why do you use assembler ? I only used it once, to write an RGB to YUV converter for a multimedia framework (NMM), but I would never use it again ...
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[22:32:01] <cheeser> mohadib: feel better?
[22:32:06] <mohadib> yes , thank you
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[22:32:11] <pr3d4t0r> HelloWorld82: You need assembler for doing cool stuff.
[22:32:11] <mohadib> may i have another
[22:32:13] <Lars_G> HelloWorld82: Many reasons, but I don't think cheeser would approve for the topic to be extended.
[22:32:14] <cheeser> always a pleasure
[22:32:16] <pr3d4t0r> HelloWorld82: Even in Java.
[22:32:17] <mohadib> ;)
[22:32:19] <pchapman> cheeser, You derive entirely too much enjoyment from that.
[22:32:23] <HelloWorld82> in java ?
[22:32:27] <cheeser> pchapman: nah.  he wanted it...
[22:32:34] <mohadib> cheeser: haha
[22:32:37] <pr3d4t0r> HelloWorld82: Go google for something called Jasmin.
[22:32:39] <slava> HelloWorld82: i write a compiler, so it has to emit assembly...
[22:32:41] <HelloWorld82> do you mean, manupalating bytecodes ? Or what do you mean ?
[22:32:53] <HelloWorld82> Jasmin ...  I know nothing about that .
[22:33:00] <HelloWorld82> ok, google.
[22:33:15] <Lars_G> HelloWorld82: Java is a VM anyhow. Or has one.
[22:33:26] <Lars_G> and as any machine, a VM can do assembly :)
[22:33:56] <HelloWorld82> mmh .. yes, but bytecode is not really assembly
[22:34:11] <Lars_G> .. why not?
[22:34:12] <slava> HelloWorld82: i was talking about "real" assembly
[22:34:14] <pr3d4t0r> HelloWorld82: Dude, don't say stupid things, will you?
[22:34:17] <Lars_G> it's machine code.
[22:34:37] <HelloWorld82> no, i dont want to falme. I'm asking. I'm interested, that's all.
[22:34:42] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Dude, are you well? it's rare to see strong comebacks from you.
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[22:34:53] <pr3d4t0r> HelloWorld82: Java assembler is as real as any other assembler.
[22:35:00] <HelloWorld82> ok
[22:35:01] <slava> its higher-level though.
[22:35:12] <slava> most other assemblers don't have object allocation and GC :)
[22:35:13] <pr3d4t0r> HelloWorld82: That the processor is implemented in software in many cases doesn't make it any different.
[22:35:30] <pr3d4t0r> slava: That's a property of the Java processor, not the assembler.
[22:35:42] <slava> a real java processor would need a lot of microcode
[22:35:50] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Yeah.
[22:36:01] <pr3d4t0r> slava: Too bad that MAJC never happened.  It would've been cool.
[22:36:02] <Lars_G> A real lot. I think a few units were actually made by Sun, weren't they?
[22:36:13] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: There are a few around.
[22:36:14] <snow_ru> cybereal, thank you so much !!!!
[22:36:33] <slava> hardware support for dynamic languages went out of fashion in the late 80's. its not useful anymore
[22:36:45] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: There is still some chance. with Java still strong on the market someday someone might decide it's ok to make a Java CPU for the mobile market.
[22:37:01] <slava> compiler technology has progressed to the point where you can efficiently compile high level languages to machine code
[22:37:03] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: The mobile handset manufacturers don't like that.
[22:37:14] <slava> they don't like it because its pointless
[22:37:30] <HelloWorld82> were these java CPU, once made by sun very fast ?
[22:37:32] <pr3d4t0r> slava: No, they don't like it because they want differentiators in their products.
[22:37:46] <slava> show me a java cpu, and i'll show you a JIT for a conventional cpu that will out-perform your java cpu.
[22:37:47] <pr3d4t0r> HelloWorld82: Google for MAJC.
[22:37:49] <slava> HelloWorld82: no.
[22:37:55] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: Still they license the browsers from the same guys ;)
[22:38:11] <pr3d4t0r> OKi, back to work.
[22:38:12] <Lars_G> slava: Yes I think you're right there.
[22:38:19] * pr3d4t0r resumes "Desperate Housewives".
[22:38:26] <Lars_G> lol
[22:38:39] <pr3d4t0r> Lars_G: I have a tough job.
[22:38:52] <shingoki> Screw Java CPU, we need a Java OS
[22:39:07] <slava> Lars_G: early 90's lisp workstations had hardware-assisted GC, type checking, etc. its not worth it anymore.
[22:39:27] <HelloWorld82> type checking ? for lisp ?
[22:39:28] <HelloWorld82> woa ...
[22:39:36] <slava> Lars_G: the big gain came from doing type checks in parallel to the computation. nowadays, any superscalar CPU does that
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[22:40:47] <slava> Lars_G: oh, and write barrier marking for generational GC. pipelined/superscalar CPUs hide the overhead almost completely now.
[22:41:05] <Lars_G> slava: What other rooms can you be found in?
[22:41:17] <slava> #concatenative, #jedit and #opengl
[22:42:32] <Lars_G> Ok
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[22:50:04] <dvoss> I am having difficulty with an editable combo box in a JTable. The table data model does not seem to know when the combo box selection has changed; the table model's setValueAt never gets called.
[22:50:42] <dvoss> The cells are editable. The combo box is editable.
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[22:51:17] <dvoss> Do I have to manually add an action listener to the table cell editor (which is the combo box)?
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[22:53:10] <slava> setValueAt is only called when you finish editing
[22:53:12] <dvoss> The combo box also has a custom data model. When the selection changes, it fires the ListDataEvent as specified by the combo box model interface.
[22:55:46] <dvoss> What happens is, I click on the combo box, change its value, and hit return. The combo box goes away, but setValueAt is never called.
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[22:57:42] <dvoss> The cell editor is a DefaultCellEditor wrapped around the combo box.
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[22:58:45] <dvoss> If I hit return, that does signal that I'm done editing, right?
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[23:03:26] <dvoss> And then the combo box sends an ActionEvent, which is picked up by the DefaultCellEditor, which then fires a ChangeEvent, which is picked up by the JTable, which calls the cell editor's getCellEditorValue method and then calls the table data model's setValueAt...at least, that's what I expect happens.
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[23:03:36] <slava> operator overloading would be really valuable in this vector-heavy objective-C code i'm working on.
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[23:06:28] <slava> pr3d4t0r: why doesn't obj-C have operator overloading? seems natural given its smalltalk heritage
[23:06:33] <arnon> currently I have C\\d+\\.\\d+\\s? that matches string "C1.2", but how do I make it match with "C1.2 C3.4 C5.6" ?
[23:07:32] <ernimril> arnon: (....)+
[23:07:41] <Sou|cutter> slava: valuable how?
[23:07:56] <slava> Sou|cutter: the code is hard to read because of method calls to add/subtract/scale vectors
[23:08:21] <dvoss> Oh, wait. I'm dumb. I didn't override AbstractTableModel's setValueAt method properly.
[23:08:22] <dvoss> :(
[23:08:31] <Sou|cutter> slava: hard to read or just more verbose?
[23:08:38] <{eng}bar4ka> how can i trouble free put an AWT Container inside a Swing JComponent ?
[23:08:49] <slava> dvoss: use the @Override annotation to have javac warn you of this next time.
[23:08:51] <arnon> ernimril, thank you
[23:08:55] <slava> Sou|cutter: hard to read.
[23:09:20] <Sou|cutter> slava: I've always kinda felt that operator overloading made code harder to read because of the uncertainty of what an operator is doing.  I can understand, I guess, in certain domains operators are well-defined, but even then
[23:09:48] <slava> there is no question as to what vector+vector does, or what scalar*vector does.
[23:10:08] <Sou|cutter> slava: right, they are well defined in that domain
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[23:10:56] <dvoss> slava: thx, good idea
[23:11:54] <Sou|cutter> slava: but vector.plus(vector2) or VectorMath.add(v1, v2) doesn't feel hard to read for me.  I guess when there's dense math going on it can be a headache, but I assume you could break it out into logical steps instead of trying to write code as dense as possible
[23:11:56] <Lars_G> Now I got depressed. sigh.
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[23:12:34] <slava> Sou|cutter: its not my code.
[23:13:00] <Sou|cutter> Lars_G: Think of what it is that you want, and why you want it.  That helps me with feelin down usually (since it always seems to be connected to wanting something)
[23:13:11] <Lars_G> nod.
[23:13:59] <slava> Sou|cutter: i can comprehend one formula more easily than something that uses 5 intermedaite variables
[23:14:01] <cybereal> I want a donut.
[23:14:41] <Lars_G> I want peace of mind. And to find enough confidence for myself that I do not need to rely on others.
[23:14:45] <Sou|cutter> slava: then put the formula in a comment (yeah, I know, not your code)
[23:14:56] <Lars_G> Plus I'd like to kill the maker of this system
[23:15:15] <HelloWorld82> :-)
[23:15:34] <slava> Sou|cutter: that's a clumsy workaround.
[23:15:34] <HelloWorld82> Lars_G" I often feel like you
[23:17:09] <ricky_clarkson> When I'mn down I go out and dance.
[23:17:26] <HelloWorld82> making sport helps too.
[23:17:41] <Sou|cutter> slava: Well, a better solution is perhaps to use a domain specific language
[23:17:59] <slava> Sou|cutter: that's why i like programming languages that make it easy to embed one :)
[23:18:34] <slava> Sou|cutter: i've never found coding excellence in paying work. its always using sub-optimal tools, sub-optimal languages, etc. but it pays.
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[23:19:39] <Sou|cutter> slava: I would think it'd be possible to create a domain language that compiles to JVM bytecode.  Not "easy to embed", sure... I think I recall reading that Sun was thinking about making that easier for the future
[23:19:48] <slava> Sou|cutter: this is objective C work
[23:19:54] <Sou|cutter> slava: Oh, right
[23:20:00] <Sou|cutter> I forgot we weren't talkin java ;)
[23:20:17] <slava> Sou|cutter: i've written JVM bytecode compilers before. its pretty easy. not as easy as writing lisp macros, but easier than say, writing a full-blown scripting language in C.
[23:21:14] * Sou|cutter nods
[23:21:41] <slava> Sou|cutter: it would be easier if there was an API that you could give a syntax tree as input, and it generates bytecode (or a Class)
[23:21:51] <slava> Sou|cutter: then a DSL would just transform its own syntax tree into this standardized one
[23:21:52] <cored> slava: Lisp easier than Java ?
[23:22:19] <slava> cored: unless java has a library you need that lisp does not, yes
[23:22:36] <cored> hmm
[23:22:47] <cored> i think is mandatory to know at least one functional programming language
[23:22:58] <slava> lisp is not functional, though.
[23:23:14] <Sou|cutter> lisp is parenthesetical
[23:23:22] <slava> Sou|cutter: actually, that is correct.
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[23:23:31] <pr3d4t0r> Sou|cutter: Sun has some cool hooks in progress for scripting languages.
[23:23:31] <cored> Sou|cutter: what
[23:23:35] <slava> Sou|cutter: the 'paradigm' of lisp is that the syntax tree of your code is a visible data type.
[23:23:46] <cored> pr3d4t0r: hey what sup
[23:23:49] <davidw> what's Sou|cutter interested in? scripting? lisp?
[23:23:50] <pr3d4t0r> Sou|cutter: Beanshell and Javascript are at the top of the list.
[23:23:52] <davidw> check out Hecl!
[23:23:53] <pr3d4t0r> cored: hej.
[23:23:58] <davidw> www.hecl.org
[23:24:00] <slava> Sou|cutter: hence the parenthesis. expressions are just nested lists; the compiler takes them as input, but you can construct your own on the fly and feed them to the compiler, too.
[23:24:00] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: From what I saw of applescript it's decent as well.
[23:24:05] * pandora-- throws some edamame at pr3
[23:24:07] <Lars_G> pr3d4t0r: For small stuff that is.
[23:24:10] <Lars_G> Hey pandora--
[23:24:11] <pandora--> <autocomplete>
[23:24:15] <pandora--> *sigh*
[23:24:20] <mohadib> mmmm edamame
[23:24:22] <pandora--> hey lars :)
[23:24:31] <Lars_G> mmm edamame
[23:24:31] <Sou|cutter> slava: for all the crap LISP gets it's really sorta cool
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[23:24:32] <Lars_G> I want
[23:24:34] <lampshade> what is applescript like?  I've never even touched it but always hear it mentioned in dark corners on the net
[23:24:41] <davidw> Lisp is super cool
[23:24:59] <Sou|cutter> three cheers for lisp!
[23:25:04] <davidw> lampshade, applescript like english tries to be
[23:25:06] <slava> Sou|cutter: most people don't get past the parens
[23:25:09] <davidw> IIRC
[23:25:33] <slava> Sou|cutter: its sorta like java beginners who get confused with the 'cannot call non-static method from static context' error, and intead of understanding OOP, declare that java sucks ;)
[23:25:45] <Sou|cutter> slava: or they declare everything static
[23:25:46] <Sou|cutter> hehe
[23:25:55] <davidw> slava, the right thing for the wrong reasons?:-)
[23:25:58] <slava> lampshade: applescript is a language for doing interprocess communication
[23:26:29] <lampshade> hmm
[23:26:45] <slava> davidw: OOP is great.
[23:27:04] <davidw> anyway... I have an applet question (pretend that it's 1997 all over again...) when I hide my applet and bring it back up again, the stuff I painted on the canvas is gone
[23:27:09] <cored> slava: i thought it was functional
[23:27:19] <slava> cored: what Sou|cutter said is correct. its parenthetical
[23:27:24] <slava> for lack of a better term
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[23:28:51] <cored> oki
[23:29:11] <Lars_G> What was it openfirmware was based on? lisp? or smalltalk?
[23:29:14] <slava> forth
[23:29:36] <slava> forth is great for that type of stuff. low level, small footprint
[23:30:25] <davidw> Lars_G, did you know there's an openfirmware song?
[23:30:33] <davidw> sung to the tune of the flinstones
[23:30:40] <slava> Lars_G: fire up openfirmware, and type 2 2 + .
[23:30:49] <slava> with the trailing dot. it will say 4 :)
[23:31:18] <davidw> unfortunately, most people just want to boot their computers, not do integer math;-)
[23:31:20] <Tartaros> davidw: Inever did any drawing in java but I'm pretty sure you're supposed to overwrite/implement some onpaint method
[23:31:31] <slava> davidw:  hehe
[23:31:33] <HelloWorld82> there is also a game that was programmed in lisp. I don't know if you know about ... "crash bandicoot". It's  very famous.
[23:31:45] <davidw> Tartaros, yeah, I am not sure which one though
[23:31:46] <slava> an older one is the abuse side-scroller
[23:31:59] <davidw> HelloWorld82, IIRC, it's that, but it's some kind of hacked lisp they made
[23:32:05] <lampshade> wow crash bandicoot was done in lisp?
[23:32:08] <lampshade> hahah that's cool
[23:32:08] <HelloWorld82> yes !
[23:32:21] <slava> they wrote a custom lisp compiler in common lisp for crash bandicoot.
[23:32:25] <Tartaros> the one that lookthere's more of them? then you're in trouble :P
[23:32:26] <HelloWorld82> I think also it's very cool :) I was very suprised, then I heard that !
[23:32:34] <Sou|cutter> HelloWorld82: Abuse (and old, but awesome 2d shooter) used LISP for all its game scripting
[23:32:42] <Sou|cutter> s/and/an/
[23:32:50] <slava> and of course, emacs tetris :)
[23:32:56] <HelloWorld82> abuse says me somethink. ..I heard from it.
[23:32:57] <Tartaros> I wanted to say the one that looks as the easiest one ;)
[23:32:57] <Sou|cutter> hehehe
[23:33:11] <slava> abuse is OSS now
[23:33:28] <lampshade> I had a friend write a MIPS compiler in python for a class.  It was cool, but really overkill for what we were doing
[23:33:42] <HelloWorld82> yes... I also think, I tried it once ... but I didn't know it was in lisp
[23:34:04] <HelloWorld82> slava, you mentioneed type checked lisp before, didn't you ?
[23:34:08] <Sou|cutter> slava: not like they can sell it anymore ;)  crack.com went under real fast IIRC (I think they self-published the game? hard to recall, I didn't know or think much about business back when this was going on)
[23:34:26] <slava> Sou|cutter: crack.com released another game after abuse, it didn't do so well, and they went under, IIRC.
[23:34:29] <Sou|cutter> I'm surprised I even remember it was crack.com
[23:34:31] <slava> HelloWorld82: all lisp is type checked
[23:34:51] <HelloWorld82> yeah, but at runtime
[23:35:02] <Sou|cutter> catchy name I suppose
[23:35:22] <slava> HelloWorld82: yes. some compilers do compile-time type checks though
[23:35:43] <HelloWorld82> ah... do I havee to change the code, to use one of this compiler ?
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[23:36:18] <HelloWorld82> (sorry, my english is really bad)
[23:36:18] <slava> the compiler i use is sbcl, it can infer types. but common lisp supports optional type declarations too. they are usually used for optimization, not safety
[23:36:26] <davidw> you can give hints as to types to some lisps too, right?
[23:36:31] <cheeser> #lisp would be a great place for the lisp discussion
[23:36:47] <HelloWorld82> yeah ... sorry !
[23:36:55] <slava> or #concatenative
[23:37:34] <davidw> right, back on topic... what do I have to implement to make my googly eyed bill's eyes come back after he gets iconized
[23:38:01] <davidw> ( http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/ - bottom of the page )
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[23:42:08] <Lars_G> look
[23:42:15] * cheeser looks.
[23:42:20] <Lars_G> Bill Gate's eyes dance to the rythm of Phill Collins
[23:42:45] <[GT]Kane> anyone know how make pgp script or somthing threough mysql put info on image sigs like they do for some games for stats...
[23:43:24] <cheeser> a pgp script, eh?
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[23:43:47] <slava> cheeser: obviously he means php
[23:43:51] <cheeser> 8^)=
[23:43:57] <Lars_G> Strange channel to ask for it.
[23:44:00] * cheeser nods sagely.
[23:44:03] <Lars_G> I wonder.
[23:44:08] <[GT]Kane> i found a pgp channal
[23:44:09] <[GT]Kane> :P
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[23:44:29] <Lars_G> Has anyone in here played with the Blu-Ray VM ?
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[23:49:35] <davidw> aaahh, I found my bug
[23:50:39] <mohadib> YAY
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[23:51:31] * cybereal wonders if [GT]Kane will be ridiculed as much in #pgp for asking about php as he was here in ##java :)
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[23:52:57] <HoNgOuru> hi
[23:53:00] <SeJo> hi
[23:53:02] <HoNgOuru> I have a problem
[23:53:23] <HoNgOuru> char o=arrayFormula[j].charAt(0);
[23:53:40] <SeJo> someone knows an open source api that allows me to receive SMTP messages (so i don't need to write my own SMTP server) as i don't want to reinvent the wheel
[23:53:52] <SeJo> i heard from james, but need something not that big :)
[23:54:02] <HoNgOuru> arrayFormula is String type...
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[23:55:01] <HoNgOuru> char o=arrayFormula[j].charAt(0); (syntax error on "char" token , delete this token)
[23:55:10] <cybereal> SeJo: maybe you can pull something useful out of JSMTPd
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[23:55:37] <cybereal> HoNgOuru: you are probably missing a semi colon before the 'char' or something
[23:55:43] <boegel|home> hello, I have a question on java
[23:55:46] <boegel|home> can I ask it here ?
[23:55:47] <SeJo> i'l check it cybereal
[23:55:48] <HoNgOuru> no
[23:55:59] <HoNgOuru> whats a semi colon
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[23:56:08] <slava> ;
[23:56:10] <HoNgOuru> ok
[23:56:12] * cybereal dies
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[23:56:40] <slava> i'd rather see soembody ask what is a semicolon than ask spring/jboss/hibernate questions.
[23:56:57] <ricky_clarkson> Boing.
[23:57:01] <cybereal> HoNgOuru: remember I also said "or something";  The error just means java doesn't think that the word 'char' should be where it is...
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[23:58:01] <cybereal> slava: Yeah I guess I've known a few people who don't know what it is in real life.  But, those people all speak English and graduated from High School.  That gives them zero excuses for not knowing what a semi-colon is imho.
[23:58:02] <HoNgOuru> ok thanks
[23:58:03] <SeJo> cybereal: thanks looks nice
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[23:58:05] <HoNgOuru> its done
[23:58:12] <HoNgOuru> thx
[23:58:41] * cybereal grumbles
[23:58:45] <cybereal> I'm hungry, going home now. bye.