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[00:01:39] <LeftWing> I kind of wish we exposed the gethrtime() value at boot
[00:01:52] <LeftWing> So that one could create a more accurate monotonic uptime value
[00:01:56] <LeftWing> I suppose I could add that!
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[00:07:04] <ypankov> :) problem solved
[00:07:58] <LeftWing> https://www.illumos.org/issues/12663 -- bam!
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[00:09:26] <rmustacc> Well, there is one major difference between the two that you won't like me saying.
[00:09:35] <LeftWing> Go on!
[00:09:45] <rmustacc> So, suspend/resume may lead you astray for uptime.
[00:09:57] <rmustacc> Beacuse the number of nanoseconds since boot may pause during that time, which you kind of want.
[00:10:00] <rmustacc> But the human time will not.
[00:10:01] <LeftWing> Ugh! I hate suspend and resume
[00:10:31] <rmustacc> But you'd need to review what everything is guaranteed to do.
[00:10:36] <LeftWing> True
[00:10:49] <LeftWing> Alright well we could expose this value but not use it for `w`
[00:11:00] <LeftWing> I've wanted this value for systems that do not suspend, at least
[00:11:03] <rmustacc> It makes sense to expose it.
[00:11:12] * LeftWing notes this in the ticket
[00:11:18] <rmustacc> But it may not make sense for the w/kubernetes/etc. use case.
[00:11:50] <rmustacc> Of course, the opposite problem is equally true for all the reasons you point out about it being subject to RTC/ntp.
[00:12:32] <rmustacc> When I think about how long my laptop's been up, I think I usually think of it independent of suspend/resume time.
[00:13:13] <LeftWing> I have put a note about suspend and resume in there
[00:13:30] <LeftWing> Thanks for thinking of that, I didn't immediately consider it
[00:14:00] <rmustacc> All I know is that I don't know enough about the platforms on x86 to say whether or not the TSC continues during that time, but I have to imagine no.
[00:14:01] <LeftWing> I think it depends on how you display it, too; e.g., do you say "started at $DATE" or do you say "up for $DAYS"
[00:15:06] <rmustacc> When I ask the question, I want to know when I powered it on. Even if my laptop has been asleep for half the time, I want to know that full time that has elapsed, personally.
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[00:18:39] <kamil_warszawa> hi
[00:21:24] <rmustacc> Hello
[00:22:35] <kamil_warszawa> is zone C API synchronous?
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[00:23:12] <rmustacc> Which APIs are you referring to?
[00:23:24] <kamil_warszawa> zone_create() zone_boot() etc
[00:23:54] <rmustacc> Oh, the private interfaces. Not sure off hand.
[00:24:03] <rmustacc> Probably?
[00:24:06] <kamil_warszawa> is there non-private one?
[00:24:25] <jlevon> yes, it's synchronous, but might not be what you want.
[00:24:28] <rmustacc> Not as a C API.
[00:24:32] <jlevon> zone boot doesn't mean it's fully up for example
[00:24:41] <rmustacc> Haha, jlevon beat me to what I was about to say.
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[00:25:08] <jlevon> being able to wait for particular zone services was a pretty nice part of solaris 11.4 ...
[00:25:27] <kamil_warszawa> jlevon: please elaborate
[00:25:30] <rmustacc> You did a hypercall or network call there?
[00:25:47] <jlevon> kamil_warszawa: why are you asking
[00:26:05] <kamil_warszawa> being able to wait for a parcitular zone service in sol11.4
[00:26:18] <kamil_warszawa> what was that and is it gone?
[00:26:22] <jlevon> oh. there's a facility to set "goal services"
[00:26:32] <jlevon> it's solaris only not illumos
[00:29:06] <jlevon> rmustacc: if that was for me, it was zones aux state reported through hypercall for kernel zones, just normal zone syscall for other brands
[00:35:42] <LeftWing> Makes sense
[00:37:45] <kamil_warszawa> can we suspend a zone?
[00:38:02] <kamil_warszawa> and resume later
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[03:10:26] <LeftWing> You can certainly pstop everything haha
[03:10:28] <LeftWing> Oh they left
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[04:16:46] <Smithx10> LeftWing: Is there anyway to entangle the processes state?
[04:16:54] <LeftWing> Stop it
[04:16:56] <Smithx10> hahaha
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[06:14:25] <danmcd> I should've posted something here sooner, but for the Sun old-timers, esp., Dina Nimeh lost her battle with cancer 2 days ago. You can see some of her commits in illumos-gate. She was in the Solaris Security group at Sun.
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[07:14:41] <LeftWing> danmcd: I'm sorry to hear that
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[09:10:46] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 12481 attempting to change MTU size of aggregate over mlxcx can cause dladm to hang -- Paul Winder <pwinder at racktopsystems dot com>
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[10:51:21] <sjorge> jlevon what is a kernel zone?
[10:51:46] <sjorge> I guess solaris 11 only as I don't think we have it
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[11:06:02] <toastersonerson> We don't have it. IIRC it is a VM like construct? Or did the make their kernel Paravirtualised like XEN did?
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[11:48:06] <tsoome> it is sort of mixed virtual machine
[11:49:01] <toastersonerson> SOunds interesting
[11:49:43] <tsoome> kind of. the most useful feature is live migration.
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[11:52:49] <jlevon> tsoome: believe it or not, the main request was so you could have different patch levels in your zones. enterprise world be crazy yo
[11:53:05] <toastersonerson> ah because it does a partial VM with custom connectors for the FS and things?
[11:53:17] <toastersonerson> like 9pfs for root?
[11:53:46] <jlevon> well there was a bunch of stuff like that, not filesystems so much though
[11:54:12] <toastersonerson> but you don't need a zVol as rootfs for a kernelzone I guess
[11:54:43] <jlevon> you do/did
[11:55:33] <toastersonerson> ah so it's basicly a VM
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[12:13:59] <tsoome> jlevon, that too is useful, I can fully understand.
[12:15:11] <tsoome> just yesterday I had to revert back to previous SRU because of stupid tomcat app
[12:16:07] <jlevon> yeah exactly
[12:16:13] <jlevon> massively useful for bad reasons :)
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[12:17:03] <tsoome> of course that app needs to be fixed eventually, but if you are in hurry...
[12:17:49] <andyf> Beats dim-sum patching too..
[12:18:21] <andyf> Customers will always try to just roll back libc or something..
[12:18:31] <jlevon> tsoome: the sheer number of business critical apps with no source...
[12:19:01] <Agnar> jlevon: I fear more business critical apps with source (aka homegrown...)
[12:19:15] <jlevon> there's plenty of homegrown apps with no source out there
[12:19:34] <Agnar> true
[12:20:08] <jlevon> you could probably make a nice business out of decompiling such back into something useful
[12:21:27] <Agnar> the more I know, the more I believe that such software should die and be rewritten with less feature and in a simple way...
[12:22:25] <jlevon> much much easier said than done
[12:22:55] <toastersonerson> *much easier said than to convince management
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[12:26:31] <Agnar> jlevon: I know, but I remember a specific project where $company tried to "modernize" their legacy j2ee app...for 11years and always failed and made that thing bigger and uglier
[12:28:34] <jlevon> yeah
[12:29:59] <Agnar> and I still believe that the relational database example from the AWK book would do the same job better
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[12:32:22] <tsoome> jlevon, it may be too simplistic approach, but I did made smatch to stop dropping cores everywhere: https://github.com/tsoome/illumos-gate/commit/cf9ff9e09fa75624d2b7d3c912bff0fc1da2aa39
[12:33:30] <jlevon> tsoome: I don't see cores generally. any idea what tickles it?
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[12:35:01] <tsoome> for some reason we do get NULL pointer dereference (on sparc) so it must be something in deep, but I haven't had time to go deep
[12:36:45] <jlevon> guess that's fine for papering over it on sparc
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[12:48:28] <sjorge> jlevon oh a lightweight solaris only vm, like a domU in the Xen world? (oh shit that is still around it seems)
[12:50:00] <jlevon> yeah
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[13:39:01] <ovi> hi @all.. I'm new and wondering what to do with patches for bite-size bugs. Attach to bug? and / or send via mail to owner for review? Would be my first patch to illumos (not in general)
[13:40:15] <wilbury> webrev and send a link
[13:40:22] <ovi> thx
[13:40:41] <jlevon> send to illumos developers list that is
[13:40:50] <jlevon> or code.illumos.org upload if you prefer
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[14:11:41] <ovi> thx again for the input - linked a webrev in the bug itself for now
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[15:06:51] <sjorge> ovi: I recently did my first patch, i mailed the developers list asking for review and mentioned my testing (I had it up on code.illumos.org, but a webrev link should also do), iterate on feedback if there is any, then mail advocates requesting rti
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[16:35:54] <KungFuJesus> so what's "memory DR"? Disaster recovery?
[16:36:11] <KungFuJesus> is this fm's ability to recover from bad DIMMs?
[16:38:31] <tsoome> DR is dynamic reconfiguration
[16:39:35] <KungFuJesus> ahhh, yeah found a blog post about it from oracle"
[16:43:04] <tomww> there is memory retirement. if there is no actual use but a DIMM is bad, it is set onto a blacklist until next reboot. that way it is prevented to run in non-correctable errors.
[16:52:33] <jbk> it was more prevalent on sparc.. not sure there was ever anything on x86 that supported it
[16:54:38] <jbk> it was nice when you had management that viewed any sort of outage for any reason as worse than the end of the world
[16:56:52] <tomww> I thought memory dimm retirement is present on X86 as well. if the right interrupts/SMB events are created to act on e.g. ECC errors.
[17:06:30] <jbk> DR is separate from DIMM retirement
[17:06:58] <jbk> DR is 'i can insert/remove HW without rebooting'
[17:08:49] <ptribble> DR is also resizing domains (and potentially VMs) on the fly
[17:09:21] <ptribble> It worked last time I resized a SPARC LDOM, but that was a while ago
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[17:38:03] <sjorge> jbk that sounds like asking for trouble, even if you support at OS level, not sure all mobo's/dimms/chipsets will like it
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[17:45:12] <jbk> it requires the hardware have the necessary support as well
[17:45:21] <KungFuJesus> sjorge: I/m sure it was a feature preserved for custom Sun systems
[17:45:26] <KungFuJesus> I'm*
[17:45:47] <jbk> which is why i said i wasn't sure there were ever any x86 systems that supported it
[17:46:08] <KungFuJesus> I'll bet it required some sophisticated memory cage to prevent arcing on removal
[17:46:56] <jbk> IIRC, typically what happened was once you removed the component from the OS, you often then had to issue some sort of poweroff command
[17:47:18] <KungFuJesus> hah, they must have been very well labeled on the board or on the underside of the chassis
[17:47:59] <jbk> well on the sparc servers, generally the smallest pieces you could insert/remove were boards, which either held PCI cards or, CPU+ram
[17:48:18] <jbk> and typically had locator LEDs and often 'safe to remove' indicators as well
[17:48:27] <jbk> and stuff was generally well labeled
[17:48:47] <KungFuJesus> damn, it sucks that Oracle is taking the wheel, Sun's hardware was always so damn cool
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[17:49:35] <jbk> i mean, even if you had a bad DIMM, it had an identifier, do you could see in the OS 'DIMM J1234 is bad', and when you opened the server, you could find a DIMM slot that was labeled 'J1234'
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[17:49:57] <KungFuJesus> Still trying to figure out a sufficiently fun task for my T5120. It's SMT only lends itself to a couple of tasks well
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[17:50:43] <KungFuJesus> Hah, maybe I should spin up something on ProjectDarkstar/RedDwarf. The only detractor for that is that the server side API is Java :(
[17:51:55] <KungFuJesus> tsoome: I hear you have an OpenIndiana SPARC WIP, how far along is that?
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[17:53:20] <tsoome> it is running current gate built with gcc 7.
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[17:53:51] <KungFuJesus> Send me your wares, I will install them. Do you have an IPS repo with SPARC packages?
[17:53:58] <tsoome> current gate with few patches of course:D
[17:54:26] <KungFuJesus> Which variants of sun4* does it support?
[17:54:34] <tsoome> u and v
[17:54:47] <KungFuJesus> cool, I have a u at the parents' house and a v here
[17:55:26] <tsoome> you need grills iso and then you should be able to use https://pkg.eenfach.de/tsoomerepo
[17:56:10] <tsoome> err stupid autocorrect.
[17:56:12] <KungFuJesus> the DVD drive on this thing if I recall was flaking when trying to install Solaris 11 and I had to put it on a thumb drive. Is there still a script out there that will convert the ISOs to USB images?
[17:56:55] <KungFuJesus> flaky*
[17:56:57] <tsoome> Gary Mills, i meant
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[17:58:39] <tsoome> um, I haven't seen such script. but assuming it can boot usb stick, it is not too hard to make usb image with ufs.
[18:00:18] <tsoome> you have to make sure you do not create cpio boot_archive, though.
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[19:06:03] <neirac> ptribble hi, do you have some documentation on how to create zones that only have what's needed to run one binary
[19:09:43] <ptribble> What I use is a varint of my mvi stuff
[19:09:51] <ptribble> https://github.com/ptribble/mvi
[19:11:18] <ptribble> There's a zmvix.sh script there that may help
[19:11:28] <sjorge> I loved opening some of the sun boxes at work, they are all gone now sadly
[19:11:45] <sjorge> They were so wel labeled and had a nice layout
[19:11:58] <sjorge> Like someone cares and loved the hardware side of things
[19:12:06] <ptribble> It's rather specific to Tribblix/zap/SVR4, but has notes on what you might need to put in the zone to get things like zlogin to work
[19:12:23] <sjorge> Instead of cramming as much as possible resulting in odd layouts
[19:12:48] <sjorge> Not sure they were atx/eatx/btx or whatever
[19:13:05] <ptribble> You never had to change the motherboard on an Ultra 5 then
[19:13:19] <sjorge> But as long as they take standard dimms, cpu and pci-e cards, I don’t care personally
[19:13:44] <sjorge> ptribble: I have not
[19:13:59] <neirac> ptribble thank you very much!.
[19:14:22] <ptribble> The Ultar 5/10 weren't really Sun, they came from a cheap box shifter, and sometimes it showed
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[19:23:24] <v_a_b> The U5s weren't so bad. The weird floppy/card reader assembly, yes. And they had the slot for the Creator card but it wouldn't fit unless you removed lots of components. :-)
[19:24:47] <v_a_b> Of course the U10 was much better. The first thing I did with my U10s was to put in a SCSI controller and switch to U160 disks.
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[19:30:44] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 12635 Allow for '-o feature@<feature>=disabled' on the command line -- LOLi <loli10K at users dot noreply.github.com>
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[20:29:06] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 12662 smbios(1M) interprets jedec IDs incorrectly -- Robert Mustacchi <rm at fingolfin dot org>
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[21:04:39] <sjorge> Have we found an alternative for echelog yet
[21:18:00] <LeftWing> I mean, I use my weechat logs :P
[21:28:40] <wacki> Echelog is IMO important for beginners. I recommend to read chats on echelog. I also read there what happened during my sleep and office hours.
[21:42:58] <LeftWing> Yes I agree IRC has presented a challenge for newcomers
[21:43:17] <toastersonerson> LeftWing (IRC): You are running Weechat on a server then I guess?
[21:43:22] <LeftWing> Maybe we should all move to Matrix! It is pretty great, and there would be no more Freenode Spam!
[21:43:25] <LeftWing> toastersonerson: Yes
[21:44:08] <toastersonerson> LeftWing (IRC): I am not impressed by the homerserver. I managed to kill it with an update but with zfs snapshots and postgres backing It is good :)
[21:44:35] <toastersonerson> I am on matrix btw :)
[21:44:47] <LeftWing> I can tell haha
[21:44:59] <toastersonerson> man son extensions to my name again?
[21:45:14] <LeftWing> No, but when you tab complete people it puts " (IRC)" on the end
[21:45:29] <LeftWing> And sometimes when you send a message longer than the IRC limit it drops a URL to your homeserver in here
[21:45:38] <toastersonerson> ah lol did not know you guys saw that.
[21:45:47] <toastersonerson> yeah included pastebin
[21:46:06] <LeftWing> I've been running Synapse on OmniOS for a while now and I haven't had any issues
[21:46:45] <LeftWing> I am pretty careful with the build though: I use a Python virtual environment, and I went to great lengths to make sure it compiled against the pkgsrc OpenSSL and other libraries
[21:46:50] <toastersonerson> It runs well until a db migration fails. You have no way to fix that unless with a backup or snapshots
[21:48:12] <LeftWing> https://gist.github.com/jclulow/3b8d5552980e155d76acf860d943b7c8
[21:48:20] <LeftWing> I haven't had a DB migration fail myself
[21:48:27] <LeftWing> I do take PostgreSQL backups before upgrading though
[21:48:42] <LeftWing> I was using SQLite until recently but made the transition
[21:49:13] <toastersonerson> did that work well?
[21:49:23] <LeftWing> The transition? It did!
[21:49:43] <LeftWing> The SQLite thing worked well until the database got big and it was taking longer for me to back it up from the ZFS snapshot
[21:49:45] <toastersonerson> hmm might do that at some point if only to fix the db at some point again
[21:50:07] <toastersonerson> i need to reinstall completely anyway the current db is broken.
[21:50:12] <LeftWing> The PostgreSQL SQL dump compresses very well and doesn't have to include all the indexes and on disk bloat, so it's much smaller to back up
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[23:51:05] <KungFuJesus> tsoome_: where can I find that Gary Mills ISO for OI / SPARC?
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[23:53:00] <KungFuJesus> Is this it? https://sourceforge.net/projects/v9os/
[23:54:19] <LeftWing> I do not think so
[23:54:48] <LeftWing> KungFuJesus: You might want to drop him an e-mail directly. I think he was looking for hosting at some stage, and someone gave him a place to put files like that
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   April 30, 2020  
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