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   February 14, 2020
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[00:02:53] <jbk> do we know what's causing the 0-byte mblks?
[00:03:21] <andyf> I can generate one with just write(1, NULL, 0) - which I've been doing for testing
[00:03:30] <andyf> but they show up when trying to build go programs
[00:03:33] <jbk> i.e. is something generating them for the wrong reason/wrong situation and ptem is just propagating them?
[00:03:35] <andyf> I don't know why..
[00:04:01] <andyf> and leoric got one recently just in he output of ld IIRC
[00:10:08] <jbk> it would sort of make more sense if you're explicitly doing message style processing..
[00:10:35] <jbk> though..
[00:10:42] <jbk> reading the streams programming guide..
[00:11:19] <jbk> at least for writes, it suggests unless the SNDZERO flag is set via I_SWROPT, a 0-byte write should be discarded
[00:11:36] <andyf> leoric saw the problem whenever `ld` generated an error message containing ./
[00:11:42] <andyf> it was a strange one
[00:12:01] <jbk> though I can't find anywhere where that's enforced
[00:12:35] <jbk> ahh.. it maps to SW_SNDZERO
[00:12:47] <jbk> though that only seems to be checked with fifos
[00:14:07] <jbk> i wonder if that's being too restrictive
[00:18:21] <andyf> isn't there an OpenSolaris bug archive somewhere on illumos.org?
[00:18:34] <andyf> bug 4025044 is related to PTYs and xpg
[00:21:14] <jbk> i.e. should strput (guessing here at which function) be checking that flag and only passing along 0-byte msgs when that flag is set?
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[00:23:46] <jbk> though system v network programming suggests it should only be for fifos.. hrm..
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[00:30:12] <sjorge> andyf: did you ever here back from the intel guy on the pci_fbuf error on the newer ed2k firmwares?
[00:32:15] <andyf> sjorge - no - I might just have to try reverting the suspect enumeration fix myself
[00:34:23] <alanc> when casper fixed the zero-sized read problem in Solaris, he said it was because our tty's are implemented as STREAMS modules, so face POSIX/XPG requirements that don't apply to platforms that don't use STREAMS for ttys
[00:35:43] <alanc> (his fix was "When an strict conforming XPG4 application allocates a pseudo tty, the unlockpt() routine will mark the tty as a XPG4 tty. Other applications will create a tty which drops zero sizes messages.")
[00:35:45] <rmustacc> alanc: what's the current behavior at your end? Did Casper change it so zero-sided reads weren't a thing anymore or something else?
[00:36:00] <rmustacc> Ah, gotcha. Thanks.
[00:36:33] <rmustacc> alanc: Presumably that means XPG4 and only XPG4?
[00:37:48] <alanc> XPG4 through XPG7
[00:37:59] <rmustacc> Gotcha.
[00:39:13] <alanc> stdlib.h has:
[00:39:14] <alanc> #if defined(_XPG4_2) && !defined(__EXTENSIONS__)
[00:39:14] <alanc> #pragma redefine_extname unlockpt __unlockpt_xpg4
[00:39:14] <alanc> #endif
[00:42:20] <andyf> In illumos, it's the open() routine that marks a tty as xpg4
[00:42:46] <andyf> well, some headers say xpg4, others say x/open..
[00:44:15] <rmustacc> andyf: Yes, well, it was probably that way in Solaris originally too. What was being described is how they addressed this issue.
[00:44:43] <alanc> yes, that's the way it used to be in Solaris too
[00:45:09] <rmustacc> It sounds like this is a way that applications that are actually trying to get this behavior indicate it.
[00:45:20] <rmustacc> And those that are being hit, like the ones you mentioned, probably don't.
[00:46:50] <alanc> yes, that was the goal
[00:47:20] <rmustacc> andyf: Does that give you something to run with or would you like some help here?
[00:50:07] <andyf> I think I'm going to need help
[00:50:26] <andyf> although I think I see what needs doing
[00:50:26] <alanc> though the only application we've found so far that really expects the XPG4 behaviour is the XPG test suites
[00:50:43] <rmustacc> Mmm. That's kind of telling.
[00:50:46] <andyf> alanc - presumably that includes the automatic pushing of modules too?
[00:51:03] <alanc> yes, casper implemented that a couple years ago
[00:51:16] <andyf> We have that, but still in libc rather than the kernel
[00:52:14] <andyf> I implemented duplicate suppression a while back since most applications assume they need to push them
[00:52:26] <alanc> yep that too
[00:55:11] <rmustacc> andyf: So I see it two ways. We can do this via unlockpt, or just always supress it, tbh.
[00:55:22] <rmustacc> If the only consumer is an xpg test suite... it's hard to care about that.
[00:58:40] <andyf> so that would be moving the logic from open() to a specific xpg4 version of unlockpt() which comes in if an application has specified _XPG4_2?
[00:59:22] <andyf> although suppression sounds good too.. tbh
[00:59:54] <rmustacc> andyf: I think those are the two options.
[01:00:52] <rmustacc> And it is a bit more tempting to do the latter. Though the former might be more strictly 'conformant'.
[01:01:16] <LeftWing> It's honestly pretty broken right now
[01:01:31] <LeftWing> And so moving from the really broken we have to the maybe-test-suite-is-broken first
[01:01:36] <andyf> Yes, as we keep finding out
[01:01:37] <LeftWing> seems a good trade off
[01:01:51] <LeftWing> And then if the test suite actually shows up
[01:01:54] <LeftWing> We can do more work later
[01:02:29] <LeftWing> (I fully expect we'll never do that follow up work)
[01:02:47] <andyf> although, to be fair, I don't think it's a lot of work
[01:02:56] <LeftWing> Sure
[01:03:02] <LeftWing> If you want to do it, that's great!
[01:03:08] <LeftWing> But like, I would in no way make anybody do that :P
[01:03:47] <LeftWing> I don't think anybody expects anything other than what Linux and the BSDs do today
[01:04:09] <LeftWing> (on this particular issue)
[01:04:22] <jbk> fameous last words :)
[01:04:47] <LeftWing> At the very least, we _know_ a bunch of software is broken by getting zero-length read() returns
[01:05:00] <LeftWing> And I know of no actual software that depends on the behaviour
[01:05:07] <andyf> It will certainly solve a lot of problems - we want libc/libm to behave in a compliant way but doing that brings along with weird slave pty behaviour
[01:05:38] <andyf> and sshd happens to be fine on SmartOS and OI (and release versions of OmniOS) just because the compiler happens to not pull in xpg4/6 values
[01:05:54] <jbk> oh i think the proposal is fine.. more just that makign the proclamation always feels a bit like going to a tall hill with a large metal rod and then cursing all known dieties during a thunderstorm :)
[01:06:07] <LeftWing> I will touch this lightning rod! :P
[01:06:50] <jbk> i.e. i think if anything ends up being actually broken by this, the sheer balance of things fixed by this would suggest they should probably adapt
[01:07:06] <andyf> Great, well thanks all, that's been really helpful
[01:07:15] <LeftWing> andyf: Thank you for sticking with this for so long
[01:07:17] <LeftWing> I know it's been a huge pain
[01:07:17] <andyf> It's late here so I'm off for today
[01:08:03] <rmustacc> Take care, andyf. Thanks for bringing this up.
[01:13:16] <alanc> gcc9 pulling in the xpg6 values by default is what made us go back and look at it again
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[11:29:13] <tsoome_> ptribble thanks:)
[11:29:30] <ptribble> you're welcome
[11:43:55] <leoric> Woodstock: re Mate and suspend/resume. Mate relies on ConsoleKit, which relies on uadmin().
[11:44:49] <leoric> I'm not sure, what is the best approach here - override it in ConsoleKit or Mate or add some sort of whitelist to uadmin.
[11:48:57] <Woodstock> uadmin would be wrong. it's just a simple tool that directly exposes a syscall.
[11:50:02] <Woodstock> i also wouldn't hard code a whitelist in the kernel that would need any difficult extra steps to get it to work again, if alone because i'm trying to debug it or anything
[11:50:37] <Woodstock> the bug i filed is just about the default setting in mate to suspend, which we just shouldn't do. nothing else in our system does either.
[11:51:04] <leoric> Perhaps. I'll look at it
[12:01:18] <Blkt> hello everyone
[12:01:41] <Blkt> is there an equivalent of Seccomp and/org SELinux for illumos?
[12:02:16] <Blkt> with that I mean Mandatory Access Controll (even in Multi Category form) and Syscall filtering/limitation
[12:03:44] <Woodstock> leoric: to be more precise, mate (and consolekit) absolutely should support suspending. they just shouldn't do it unless a user explicitly asked for it to be done.
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[12:12:20] <ptribble> Blkt: privileges is the equivalent to seccomp; it's fine-grained rather than being done crudely at the syscall level
[12:13:04] <ptribble> We also have trusted (labeled), but very few people use it
[12:15:11] <Blkt> (also, I'm studying The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating System)
[12:15:54] <Blkt> ops sorrry
[12:15:58] <Blkt> this was for another channel
[12:16:08] <Blkt> ptribble: thanks for the prompt reply
[12:19:11] <ptribble> https://illumos.org/man/5/privileges
[12:19:38] <Blkt> awesome, thank you
[12:20:51] <ptribble> In the same way that containers on Linux get reduced access to syscalls via seccomp, zones on illumos only get a limited subset of privileges
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[21:58:37] <ggendel> Can someone walk me through the process of contributing to a bug fix?
[21:58:57] <ggendel> Specifically https://www.illumos.org/issues/6036
[21:59:36] <ggendel> I tried the patch by James Carlson and it makes ufsrestore usable again.
[22:00:40] <ggendel> I know that this isn't a critical issue, but I had some 300 archive tapes that I can finally recover in preparation for better archiving.
[22:02:30] <andyf> Hi ggendel, yes definitely!
[22:02:45] <jbk> https://illumos.org/docs/contributing/ has a good guide.. I'd suggest taking a look at that and see what questions you have after that
[22:03:24] <ggendel> Thanks. I'm a git novice so I really need some idiot hand-holding. :)
[22:03:37] <jbk> (not trying to push you off or anything.. just it's more detailed than what could easily be typed here)
[22:04:28] <ggendel> I understand. I did look at that but I have some basic questions... How do I request a pull and later a review.
[22:06:03] <jbk> we don't really use pull requests, but you if you have an account on illumos.org w/ an ssh key, you can upload to illumos.org/rb or code.illumos.org .. then generally you'll just send out an email to the illumos-developer list asking for a review
[22:06:20] <andyf> The basic workflow for the first part (stop me if you're already ahead of this)...
[22:06:49] <andyf> Get a github account, create a fork of the illumos/illumos-gate repository (that's done through the github web interface)
[22:06:58] <andyf> Clone that fork to your local machine
[22:07:05] <andyf> Create a branch for your change
[22:07:26] <andyf> Make the change to the code, test it or compare with the stuff you are already running successfully
[22:07:41] <andyf> commit the change and generate a set of diffs for people to review - there are a few different formats for that
[22:08:47] <andyf> a pull request on github is one, emailing the patch to the developers' list is another
[22:08:48] <ggendel> This is exactly what I needed. I'll capture this and work through the steps. I'll come back if I run into a problem.
[22:09:07] <andyf> or there are some review tools like Reviewboard, webrev, Gerrit.. that we can help you get started with
[22:09:30] <ggendel> I come from the perforce world. Git is a completely different animal for me.
[22:09:49] <ggendel> But necessity is a mother.
[22:11:00] <jbk> if it helps (if not, just forget i said it :P), I've found it easiest to think of git as managing a series of diffs, so a lot of the operations are about rearranging or combining them
[22:11:35] <jbk> (for a lot of other systems diffs seem more like implementation details vs. being front and center)
[22:12:44] <ggendel> Thanks again. I feel a lot more comfortable attempting this.
[22:16:53] <ggendel> One silly question... How do I get an account on illumos.org? There doesn't seem to be any instructions?
[22:19:18] <jbk> good question...
[22:19:24] <ggendel> Nevermind. I actually have an account as I reported a bug 5 years ago.
[22:19:52] <jbk> well glad you came back! :)
[22:20:33] <jbk> if you haven't set an ssh key, you should be able to go to your account and add one..
[22:20:48] <jbk> you'll want that to use gerrit or upload a webrev
[22:22:07] <ggendel> Good. Have a great weekend. With luck you won't hear from me again.
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[22:57:03] <bahamat> jbk: Does that mean adding an ssh key to my redmine account lets me upload?
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[23:03:30] <jbk> to where?
[23:03:43] <jbk> it shoudl allow you to upload changes to gerrit
[23:03:51] <jbk> or webrev -U
[23:08:07] <jbk> hrm..
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[23:11:12] <jbk> if i have an mdb module that depends on a walker in another module.. is there a way to get mdb to load the other module?
[23:11:57] <jbk> i'm trying to get the refhash stuff upstream, and i noticed that after moving them (in illumos-joyent) to usr/src/common so it can be used in userland, that while there was a walker for genunix, we should probably have one for librefhash
[23:12:03] <jbk> except that it uses the list_t walker
[23:12:28] <jbk> which in userland is in libcmdutils (though the librefhash just links against list.o so it doesn't link against libcmdutils for list_create(), etc)
[23:14:01] <jbk> the userland version works as long as you '::load libcmdutils.so.1'
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[23:49:21] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 12181 zvol tests should avoid grep -w -- Jason King <jason.king at joyent dot com>
[23:49:36] <bahamat> I have an ssh key in redmine, but ssh to code.illumos.org says pubkey denied.
[23:49:46] <bahamat> Does it have to sync or something?
[23:50:38] <jbk> can you login to the website?
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   February 14, 2020
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