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   November 8, 2019
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[00:53:20] <jbk> hmm.. it looks like virtualbox supports at least some of the virtio 1.0 features for network devices at least..
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[01:29:56] <Reinhilde> should I cash out my savings and buy a pork belly
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[04:16:23] <jbk> why not frozen concentrated orange juice?
[04:17:20] <Reinhilde> jbk: you mean soda? yeah, no
[04:17:27] <Reinhilde> I do value my waistline
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[04:24:26] <jbk> no, i mean frozen concentrated orange juice
[04:24:56] <jbk> (ever see trading places?)
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[04:29:30] <Reinhilde> jbk: no man, you mean soda
[04:29:34] <Reinhilde> orange juice is soda
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[12:51:10] <andyf> Reinhilde even with US/British/Oz English differences, I don't think orange juice is ever soda
[12:51:19] <andyf> (although soda in the UK is just carbonated water...)
[12:52:17] <andyf> Oh, I just spotted how old that conversation is :p
[13:21:57] <Smithx10> lol
[13:22:05] <Smithx10> OJ != Soda
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[15:11:55] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 11859 need swapgs mitigation -- John Levon <john.levon at joyent dot com>
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[16:52:42] <Reinhilde> Smithx10: biochemically speaking, they're equal
[16:53:00] <Smithx10> rofl
[16:53:02] <Smithx10> ./you win
[16:53:27] <Reinhilde> soda is glucose fructose syrup, and water. OJ is various sugars, in similar concentrations to soda, a bit of vitamin C, some weird phytochemicals, and water.
[16:53:48] <Reinhilde> and the C goes away if you heat it.
[16:54:42] <andyf> Except in England, where soda is just H2O + CO2 :)
[16:55:33] <Reinhilde> andyf: yes, well, in England, think "soft drink" when I say soda
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[17:10:25] <KungFuJesus> Does OI's build infrastructure run any CI tests before writing the latest state of illumos-gate to IPS?
[17:12:50] <KungFuJesus> I know devs are supposed to test their changes and what not, but the last bootloader update that refused to boot my rpools has made me a bit nervous. You can't rollback to an older BE if you can't get there with the bootloader. Of course, in this scenario, it was bootable with an older snapshot of hipster. But it sure seems like this could have been caught with tsoome's userspace bootloader code
[17:12:56] <KungFuJesus> and some unit tests
[17:14:07] <KungFuJesus> maybe even a KVM/QEMU based unit test for loader
[17:14:25] <KungFuJesus> and running the zfs test suite
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[17:22:30] <tsoome> KungFuJesus: the problem is that I know 3 cases similar to yours and I have no way to replicate them:)
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[17:24:56] <KungFuJesus> That particular one does appear to be how the sas controllers present disks to the BIOS
[17:25:00] <KungFuJesus> so that's a bit trickier
[17:30:38] <tsoome> it should not really be the case, but hopefully we get some light there.
[17:39:58] <KungFuJesus> I'm going to try updating the bootloader at home this weekend to see if it's fixed
[17:49:43] <andyf> can dtrace demangle c++ names these days?
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[17:56:24] <jbk> not really
[17:57:45] <jbk> i should write a cmdline utility to attempt to demangle stdin
[17:57:57] <jbk> using the system library
[17:58:03] <jbk> so you could just pipe the output
[17:58:18] <jlevon> please make it c++filt compatible if you do
[17:58:19] <igork> c++filt
[17:59:10] <andyf> We don't have studio any more
[17:59:25] <igork> c++filt is from bitbutils
[17:59:28] <andyf> I'm tracking down a bug in make and having the usual fun with mangled names
[17:59:29] <igork> *binutils
[18:00:22] <andyf> oh, I didn't know that. There was a utilty in studio that I used to use, I can't remember the name
[18:00:28] <andyf> possibly "dem" or something
[18:00:37] <jbk> yeah
[18:00:47] <andyf> I'm settling for using mdb ::dem now
[18:00:55] <jbk> i didn't do anything originally since there was concern with conflicting with names w/ binutils and studio
[18:01:49] <andyf> Have to run - will get back to this later, there's definitely a bug but the code is not particularly nice to follow
[18:02:34] <rmustacc> I suspect we could make DTrace just demangle names by default like it does on OS X?
[18:03:10] <andyf> I mean, it's not as if I /can't/ read this
[18:03:10] <andyf> https://paste.ec/paste/TaQUlovx#J9fXwrwPmRF-KSCOTWQe4VOPWPRFNQM2tJ3wNdRpYJs
[18:03:17] <jlevon> "bug in make" "not nice to follow"
[18:03:18] <jlevon> haha
[18:03:21] <jbk> possibly.. i thought some of that happens in the kernel vs. userland
[18:03:37] <jbk> that's not too bad
[18:03:43] <andyf> I was actually trying to add pid$target::read_dir:entry .. but of course it's not "read_dir"
[18:03:55] <jbk> node has a few names that demangle to a 3kb long lame
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[18:13:56] <jbk> jlevon: how much do you care about supporting the options to c++filt ?
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[18:45:57] <jlevon> jbk: depends how hard they are to implement.
[18:46:19] <jlevon> basically it would be a shame to be gratuitously incompatible to the tool everyone knows and uses
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[18:52:02] <jbk> well there's the binutils flags and there's the studio flags
[18:53:40] <jlevon> binutils is what counts IMO
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[18:57:55] <rmustacc> I wouldn't focus on studio compat in most things. Though if you're writing a new tool, not sure I would call it c++filt.
[18:58:06] <rmustacc> As I assume a lot of folks have c++filt already installed.
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[19:17:52] <jbk> i was actually thinking maybe something like 'demfilt' since it wouldn't be c++ specific, but not sure if that's also already used or not
[19:23:02] <rmustacc> jbk: Why don't you just call it 'demangle'?
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[19:24:04] <jbk> that seemed too so obvious that it has to already be used by something :)
[19:24:41] <rmustacc> Well, take a look.
[19:25:15] <rmustacc> jbk: For example, there's no Ubuntu package with a program called 'demangle'
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[19:34:37] <jperkin> devel/kde-dev-utils/PLIST.Linux:bin/demangle
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[20:19:06] <Reinhilde> rmustacc: do you know of any modern computers that can boot off of tape?
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[20:20:54] <tsoome> Reinhilde: nothing does prevent it — it is all software and if you will find someone who will implement it.
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[20:21:40] <Reinhilde> tsoome: that's true
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[20:25:45] <Reinhilde> i also wonder if anyone has ever zfs send't an empty but otherwise fully installed illumos image to a tape and zfs recv'd that tape on a million other computers
[20:26:02] <Reinhilde> (not that that can't be done with CDs or DVDs as is being done presently)
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[20:45:07] <LeftWing> I think it is unlikely that anybody has put a ZFS send stream directly on a tape
[20:46:10] <LeftWing> In the past, tape drives were common on ever computer. They're still common in lots of enterprise backup or archive scenarios, but they're usually attached to very few machines and instead accessed over the network.
[20:48:13] <andyf> I once had to boot a Honeywell 6000 running Bull Open Systems from tape.. but it pre-dates ZFS :)
[20:48:16] <Reinhilde> haha
[20:48:59] <jbk> at least in the early 2000s you still booted (*ahem* IPLed *ahem*) a S/39^H^H^Hz/OS system from tape IIRC
[20:50:27] <Reinhilde> jbk: you can call it S/390 ;-)
[20:50:42] <Reinhilde> and that needs four ^?s, not three ^H
[20:51:15] <Reinhilde> andyf: if I ever get a tape drive installed in a computer on which I can run illumos perfectly, should I, if nothing else, write zfs send streams to it?
[20:54:23] <tsoome> you could. However, there are 2 things to consider — how you manage the files on tape and can you feed the tape.
[20:59:48] <Reinhilde> strictly as a backup or as secondary install medium (secondary to a CD or DVD)
[21:00:02] <Reinhilde> is what I'll be using the tape for, so no real file management
[21:00:07] <Reinhilde> I'll treat it as a single file
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[23:42:34] <jbk> hrm..
[23:49:16] <jbk> i probably should define __sentinel or such in sys/ccomple.h instead of doing __attribute((sentinel))
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[23:56:31] <rmustacc> It doesn't have to be __sentinel. But you should use sys/ccompile.h to properly make sure we conditionalize it based on the compiler.
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   November 8, 2019
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