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[00:23:38] <Reinhilde> ~rar~
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[00:44:44] <LeftWing> andyf: Yeah, all I do now to manually sync the Gerrit server up is basically "git pull" and then "git push code master" (where "code" is the remote I added for Gerrit)
[00:55:04] <Reinhilde> eck
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[01:57:02] <Reinhilde> well that was marathon
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[05:01:10] <Smithx10> If any C ninjas are around I'm trying to get this to build on illumos and ran into a issue. https://github.com/citusdata/cstore_fdw/issues/218
[05:03:10] <Smithx10> https://www.mail-archive.com/smartos-discuss at lists dot smartos.org/msg01586.html
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[05:45:15] <Smithx10> Turned out I just needed to add -D__EXTENSIONS__
[06:21:46] <rzezeski> that's usually the case
[06:23:44] <rzezeski> From what I remember from the times when I used to give a shit about POSIX, illumos is much more strict about following the standard in the default compilation environment. So you have to know the various XPG/SUS/WHATEVER levels to set. But most of the time that ends in tears and you just end up defining __EXTENSIONS__
[06:24:47] <rzezeski> At least that's how I remember it. That's all one big factory of shit sandwiches so I just gave up trying to understand. I'm sure I'm full of crap and someone can give you a better answer.
[06:26:18] <rzezeski> For a good time follow the austin working group.
[06:27:40] <rzezeski> There's some old illumos-dev threads about this too that were a real page turner
[06:28:12] <rzezeski> (if you can't tell I'm spreading the sarcasm on thick tonight)
[06:28:44] <LeftWing> rzezeski: You're not all wrong lol
[06:28:57] <rzezeski> My only goal anymore is to not be completely wrong
[06:29:06] <rzezeski> That's honestly the best I can achieve these days
[06:29:14] <LeftWing> 2019-2020: a good time to evolve our default compilation environment maybe!
[06:29:17] <rzezeski> The computers have turned off the light inside of me
[06:29:31] <Reinhilde> default to -m64
[06:29:37] <LeftWing> That's a compiler thing
[06:29:46] <rzezeski> LeftWing: In all seriousness, it might be time to revisit some of that stuff
[06:29:53] <rzezeski> I nkow that's easier said than done
[06:29:57] <LeftWing> I'm pretty sure newer compilers do, in fact, default to -m64? I'm sure this came up recently
[06:30:03] <rzezeski> As someone who just rides the pine all day on illumos-dev
[06:30:40] <LeftWing> rzezeski: I don't want to break existing binaries, and I don't want to suddenly make the entirety of open source software *harder* to compile (by accident)
[06:31:01] <LeftWing> But I am otherwise generally enthusiastic about improvements that make things easier especially for newcomers
[06:31:36] <Reinhilde> LeftWing: gcc and clang all default to m32
[06:31:44] <rzezeski> Yea I don't remember the tradeoffs, I just know our default compilation environment is different enough from everyone else that people just seem to bang their head against the wall and end up at -D__EXTENSIOSN__
[06:31:47] <LeftWing> Reinhilde: Is that true with newer gcc like 8.X ?
[06:31:49] <Reinhilde> on my system anyway
[06:31:52] <Reinhilde> LeftWing: seems like
[06:43:09] <rmustacc> The compiler default depends on how you configure it.
[06:44:30] <rmustacc> A lot of things are available by default until you ask for a standard.
[06:45:11] <rmustacc> And compilers also have built-in defines that end up coming out depending on configuration.
[06:45:25] <rmustacc> The trick is just to measure and make improvements, not do it blindly.
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[09:27:57] <jperkin> right, of course if you provision a 64-bit SmartOS image then the compiler is going to default to 64-bit
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[12:43:45] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 11787 Kernel needs to be built with retpolines -- Robert Mustacchi <rm at joyent dot com>
[12:43:54] <andyf> \o/
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[13:16:37] <sjorge> Small re recent mailing list back and forth, we do really appriacate all the work that goes into keeping the illumos infra up and running so we can have nice things like redmine, rb, cr,... thanks for all the hard work!
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[15:29:03] <KungFuJesus> any discernible performance impact since the retpoline introduction?
[15:32:23] <KungFuJesus> wow Joyent is a lot more thorough in their bug reporting: https://smartos.org/bugview/OS-7598
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[15:37:40] <jlevon> KungFuJesus: not really been that much testing of that, beyond it looking sane enough. it's dwarfed by KPTI for example.
[15:37:50] <jlevon> KungFuJesus: and regardless, we have to do it, so to some extent the perf doesn't matter.
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[15:43:00] <Reinhilde> what about ASLR?
[15:45:21] <jlevon> what do you mean
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[16:42:01] <Reinhilde> does illumos have aslr?
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[16:43:49] <LeftWing> KungFuJesus: In fairness I copied the testing report into 11787 :P
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[16:51:21] <andyf> Reinhilde: yes, it does
[16:51:59] <Reinhilde> did you beat oracle to the punch or did oracle beat illumos? or was it from back when both trees were one
[16:52:52] <andyf> It was after the split; no idea who implemented it first.
[16:52:55] <andyf> See https://github.com/illumos/illumos-gate/commit/d2a70789f056fc6c9ce3ab047b52126d80b0e3da
[16:53:04] <andyf> (April 2014)
[16:55:14] <Reinhilde> ah
[16:56:32] <KungFuJesus> jlevon: I suppose that's true - though systems running on Illumos in production right now don't have retpolines
[16:56:44] <andyf> KungFuJesus, well, OmniOS ones do..
[16:56:45] <KungFuJesus> kind of makes me wonder why it wasn't a bigger deal to get them in there
[16:56:46] <andyf> and SmartOS
[16:57:03] <KungFuJesus> OmniOS took this patch before it went into illumos-gate?
[16:57:21] <andyf> Yes, partly because it touched lx zone things too
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[16:57:50] <KungFuJesus> I assume KPTI already went in here, didn't it?
[16:59:13] <andyf> Yes, January '18
[17:00:31] <KungFuJesus> and I suppose, apart from a few manual places which have hard coded asm, we're relying on GCC's generation of retpolines, which should have been pretty heavily tested and under fire by this point
[17:03:19] <andyf> It uses external thunks, so it is not entirely all gcc..
[17:07:20] <yuripv> it was't really "(April 2014)", that's the commit date
[17:07:52] <andyf> Ah yes, Sat Oct 15 12:02:16 2016
[17:08:07] <andyf> I always forget that github does not show that
[17:08:10] <yuripv> just noticed a 2016 copyright from Toomas in there :)
[17:13:01] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 8993 regex: Refactor fast/slow stepping bits in the matching engine -- Kyle Evans <kevans at FreeBSD dot org>
[17:13:02] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 8908 regcomp: reduce size of bitmap for multibyte locales -- Yuri Pankov <yuri.pankov at nexenta dot com>
[17:13:03] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 11741 regexec: fix processing multibyte strings -- Yuri Pankov <yuri.pankov at nexenta dot com>
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[17:23:28] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 11841 badseg test times out -- John Levon <john.levon at joyent dot com>
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[17:58:27] <KungFuJesus> *sigh* we may already have our first CoC troll
[17:59:06] <KungFuJesus> I dunno, maybe race is a hot word in Germany, but it does seem like this is controversy just for the sake of controversy
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[18:04:47] <psarria> i want to host a php application that needs the "ioncube loader" extension for some components; for my surprise ioncube don't provide a 64bit version for solaris but they do for openbsd, freebsd, windows and linux. Reason for this is the few inquiries they receive for build that and the impact it would have in the performace of their build system. Naturly support/sales contact tell me that they probably could build one for me
[18:04:47] <psarria> per 250$ :) i'm wondering if somebody nowdays host websites for thirds under a illumos kernel
[18:05:45] <LeftWing> KungFuJesus: I think it's fine to offer feedback, and I choose to interpret it in a positive light until other evidence arises. Words mean different things to different people, and I thought Dan's response was informative as to why we'd have that word.
[18:06:06] <LeftWing> Obviously if it drags on I reserve the right to change my mind :P
[18:07:10] <andyf> race is a meaningless term in scientific circles, certainly, but not in common parlance.
[18:07:16] <LeftWing> Right
[18:08:15] <danmcd> I have no time for this shit. (And the tweet storm I reference I'd read not 5mins earlier.) BTW, I'm in meetings all week so my latency & jitter will be high.
[18:11:01] <yuripv> so we aren't allowed to discuss "race conditions" anymore?
[18:11:58] <danmcd> HAH!
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[18:20:30] <ptribble> psarria: It does seem odd, given that they already produce a 32-bit Solaris version, so adding "-m64" should be a doddle
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[18:29:48] <psarria> ptribble, i even thought to offer me to compile them these versions freely in order for avoid them the impact in their build system :)
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[19:03:46] <KungFuJesus> LeftWing: would "ethnicity" have been a better alternative?
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[19:04:13] <LeftWing> That's a good question!
[19:04:51] <LeftWing> Honestly, I'm a white man... so... I think if we were going to improve that language we'd want to find out why it was chosen by the Contributor Covenant folks in the first place
[19:05:04] <bahamat> Maybe. But as much as race isn't a scientific term, it's definitely a social term. Racism isn't based on any scientifically measurable differences. It's social discrimination.
[19:05:07] <LeftWing> I've never felt racial (or whatever) discrimination in my life
[19:06:25] <LeftWing> So I'd want to hear from people who have, and whether they like that word or want a different word, or whatever.
[19:06:27] <bahamat> Agreed. Neither have I. It's hard being a bunch of white people trying to figure out how to best inform people that we welcome their participation.
[19:07:34] <KungFuJesus> "when used for humans". Oh boy, now I can't stop thinking of the Greendale "Human Being" mascot from Community
[19:08:50] <dsockwell> i say hit back on 'eradicate' and 'race' together in the same post and see what the response is
[19:11:19] <dsockwell> on second thought that's exactly what shouldn't be done
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[19:44:39] <ptribble> errm, the CoC already has ethnicity as well as race
[19:44:58] <ptribble> Having both in a CoC is pretty widespread
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[21:18:58] <Smithx10> rzezeski: lol, that was a hilariously great explanation :) thank you!
[21:19:17] <Smithx10> came across this too https://www.illumos.org/issues/6283
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[21:49:45] <andyf> LeftWing - Shall I push my latest review to Gerrit instead of RB then?
[21:50:22] <LeftWing> andyf: If you would like!
[21:50:44] <andyf> well, I may as well see how it works
[21:51:33] <LeftWing> There's a git hook it's going to recommend you install that will put the required Change-Id footer in the commit message
[21:52:06] <LeftWing> And then you push with, e.g., "git push code HEAD:refs/for/master" basically
[21:52:26] <andyf> let me try
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[21:54:01] <andyf> yes, changeid error
[21:54:20] <andyf> and I had to rebase on code/master as it got upset that I had branched from upstream_gate/master
[21:54:31] <LeftWing> Sorry, code/master was out of date
[21:54:36] <LeftWing> I just pushed the latest ref over there
[21:54:48] <LeftWing> (This will keep happening until we start pushing through it)
[21:55:45] <andyf> I need to look at the change ID thing - I already have a commit hook
[21:55:56] <LeftWing> Oh yeah? What does it do?
[21:56:23] <andyf> It's for our omnios merges, it cleans up and annotates.. it works alongside the prepare-commit-msg one
[21:56:38] <LeftWing> Ahh
[21:58:07] <andyf> smartos must have something similar (or at least Jerry) based on the merge commits that land in illumos-joyent
[21:58:30] <LeftWing> I think the merge commits are done with a script
[21:58:39] <LeftWing> You can probably just do this: echo "Change-Id: I$(git hash-object --stdin <<< $RANDOM)"
[21:58:49] <LeftWing> I think that will make a valid footer you can stick in there for now
[22:00:22] <LeftWing> Though admittedly this would probably be better: dd if=/dev/urandom bs=2048 count=1 | git hash-object --stdin
[22:01:10] <andyf> yes, I can probably do something better in the commit hook, but I'll look at that later
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[22:02:12] <andyf> `rbt post HEAD` is a bit easier :D
[22:02:19] <andyf> but it seems to have worked
[22:02:52] <LeftWing> Yeah, in the future when people actually submit code to Gerrit for review I imagine we'll just have a tool
[22:03:30] <LeftWing> The go folks have "git-codereview" that manages hooks, has some sanity checks, lets you just run "git codereview mail" to upload changes, etc
[22:03:54] <LeftWing> So I figure we could have something similar that maybe even ties in with pbchk or whatever
[22:07:00] <LeftWing> That is, of course, assuming the toys go back in the pram and we get this underway :P
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[22:08:57] <andyf> Hey, I was just pleased not to be last on the list of committers :)
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[22:11:45] <LeftWing> lol
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[22:12:31] <LeftWing> Hey, you beat me by like 3X
[22:12:43] <LeftWing> I am most assuredly slacking off
[22:13:24] <andyf> It will be all that time you're spending on zpool device change handling
[22:14:25] <andyf> Ah, it's nice that it automatically links through to the underlying issue
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[22:27:57] <LeftWing> I spent a fair bit of time trying to make it nice to use :)
[22:28:30] <LeftWing> The inbuilt repo browser does that too -- https://code.illumos.org/plugins/gitiles/illumos-gate
[22:29:35] <andyf> Oh, mine's a "Large" change?
[22:32:49] <LeftWing> Haha, yeah that's ... there's some configuration about what constitutes different change sizes
[22:33:14] <LeftWing> I have not tweaked it. It seems a bit fluff, on some level
[22:40:48] <LeftWing> https://build.golang.org/# -- we're on the big board!
[22:41:16] <LeftWing> Now if only I knew what was going on with TestAtomicStop
[22:41:48] <LeftWing> Pretty sure the test runner sees the 48 CPUs that the host has, and starts 48 concurrent tests, even though the zone has a 2-4 CPU cap
[22:42:00] <LeftWing> Which makes timing sensitive things not go well
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[22:51:36] <jlevon> LeftWing: this version of gerrit doesn't allow refs/changes/<id> right?
[22:51:39] <jlevon> to push to
[22:52:05] <LeftWing> They seem pretty intent on deprecating that, so I think Change-Id footers are probably here to stay with this
[22:52:13] <jlevon> ok
[22:52:41] <LeftWing> I've spent a considerable number of months making a zen-like effort to decide I like them
[22:53:05] <jlevon> it's not a big deal for me
[22:53:17] <LeftWing> It does admittedly make it harder to accidentally push on top of somebody else's change, and to update your patch in place without figuring out what number it is
[22:53:24] <LeftWing> err, and easier for the second one
[23:03:01] <jlevon> wow CR -1 is well hidden
[23:04:03] <jlevon> maybe it's no longer possible?
[23:15:31] <LeftWing> So pretty much everything happens through the big blue REPLY button now
[23:15:44] <LeftWing> In the reply box, you can adjust your votes for a change
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[23:21:11] * jlevon resurrects "open all in new tabs"
[23:21:33] <jlevon> I don't have a "reply" button
[23:21:42] <jlevon> oh, have to "Start review" I guess
[23:22:30] <LeftWing> I think yours was in the WIP state
[23:22:33] <LeftWing> Which I think is new as well
[23:22:38] <jlevon> it was
[23:22:50] <LeftWing> I think it keeps it off people's radar until you're happy with how it looks
[23:22:52] <jlevon> probably a better representation than cr-1
[23:22:56] <LeftWing> Yeah
[23:23:11] <LeftWing> I was pleasantly surprised with some of the new bits since the version we had at Joyent
[23:23:42] <jlevon> I'm finding it a little hard visually but that's just comfort I'm sure
[23:23:45] <jlevon> there's a lot on the screen
[23:24:52] <LeftWing> There is. That's certainly a valid criticism
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   October 22, 2019  
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