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   October 9, 2019
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[03:13:53] <Reinhilde> JFQD FIX YOUR INTERNETS
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[06:21:13] <stevenw99> I'm using SmartOS - September platform image. So kernel memory after reboot seems to start at 7200MB and seems to increase by about 100MB/hour, reaching up over 14GB before I rebooted it. Can you guys run echo ::memstat | mdb -k, I'd want to see how much kernel memory is for you guys?
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[06:29:01] <copec> https://unaen.org/pb/193
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[06:40:25] <copec> It seems pretty normal, echo "::kmastat" | mdb -k shows more details
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[06:44:17] <yuripv> also, mdb -ke ::kmastat, less typing
[06:47:17] <stevenw99> what are these used for? kmem_va 2.2GB, zfs_file_data_buf (is this included in kernel or zfs file data?) 1.2GB, kmem_default 2.6GB
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[07:18:37] <stevenw99> any suggestions on what to use an extra 250GB SSD (Samsung 850 EVO) for? Already have 2 x 500GB Samsungs as a mirror, so would using it as a SLOG or L2ARC make much of a difference (given that the data's already on an SSD)?
[07:19:00] <stevenw99> How safe would using a non-mirrored pool for swap be?
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[11:02:09] <tsoome> stevenw99: http://src.illumos.org/source/xref/illumos-gate/usr/src/uts/common/vm/seg_kmem.c#1530 and http://src.illumos.org/source/s?refs=zio_alloc_arena&project=illumos-gate
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[13:53:39] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 11770 additional mmp fixes -- Olaf Faaland <faaland1 at llnl dot gov>
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[14:52:45] <jlevon> it is exceedingly messed up that you can call thr_create() with _REENTRANT not defined
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[17:21:22] <jbk> is there any reason _REENTRANT shouldn't just be the default these days?
[17:23:08] <jlevon> or the suitable POSIX_C_SOURCE
[17:23:18] <jlevon> answer: dunno. and I'm not sure how we could even test that.
[17:25:00] <jbk> the biggest difference I can think off (after the sol10(?) work to unify non-mt and mt stuff) is errno -- for the non-_REENTRANT case, I think you link against the global var in libc (for thread 1) vs. going through a function that returns the per-thread value
[17:25:03] <rmustacc> The safer thing is to set _TS_ERRNO
[17:25:30] <rmustacc> Which changes the behavior but doesn't change some of the signatures and other things.
[17:25:35] <rmustacc> In terms of defaults.
[17:26:39] <jlevon> yeah but go big or go home
[17:27:43] <rmustacc> In some cases it's not as straightforward to construct cases for software to make sure it notices and does the right thing with the signature change.
[17:28:04] <rmustacc> I think _TS_ERRNO is simpler to do and safer. But ultiately falls to the folks who want to do the work and verification.
[17:28:10] <rmustacc> And it's not short in either case.
[17:28:29] <jlevon> some hiding thr_create / pthread_create might be an interesting experiment. the bad case I found was in smartos-live not illumos but
[17:29:02] <rmustacc> Hmm?
[17:29:59] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 11777 bootadm: list-menu -o entry=X does not list details when bootfs has colon -- Toomas Soome <tsoome at me dot com>
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[20:23:46] <LeftWing> jlevon: In which software?
[20:36:24] <jlevon> LeftWing: fswatcher
[20:39:53] <tsoome> yuripv: ping:)
[20:41:19] <tsoome> yuripv: could we get rid of cp: cannot access locale/C.UTF-8/LC_COLLATE/LCL_DATA lines from nightly.log ?:)
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[22:11:49] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 11736 Stop using $VERSION for the genunix label -- John Levon <john.levon at joyent dot com>
[22:14:01] <copec> Has anyone here ever read all the Intel architecture manuals?
[22:16:33] <jlevon> uhh
[22:16:48] <jlevon> what does that even mean
[22:17:09] <copec> https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-sdm
[22:17:25] <jlevon> no, what do you mean by "read all"
[22:17:37] <jlevon> like, every line of the instruction reference?
[22:18:00] <copec> Yeah, like every published word.
[22:18:38] <jlevon> then no of course not.
[22:18:41] <rzezeski> it's a lot of words
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[22:20:36] <copec> I went through all of "the art of assembly language programming" like a decade ago, now I'm going through wiki.osdev.org while reading solaris internals and grok'ing the illumos source
[22:21:34] <copec> How do people get into kernel development? It seems like an incredibly large base knowledge
[22:22:34] <copec> I guess it's more like boeing 777 development
[22:22:54] <jlevon> find a corner
[22:23:09] <rzezeski> find a never ending cave of pain more like it
[22:24:18] <jlevon> lol
[22:26:51] <rmustacc> Reading it's insufficient, anyways. ;)
[22:27:02] <rmustacc> Then you have the bugs, erratum, and misdocumented suff.
[22:27:03] <jbk> what's in the box^Wcorner? pain.
[22:27:05] <rmustacc> *stuff
[22:28:26] <copec> This combined manual is ~5000 pages and ~30MB 😳
[22:28:55] <copec> Of typset, not scanned text, heh.
[22:30:15] <pcd> yeah you can't really understand all of a modern kernel, you have to have parts of it that you know
[22:30:36] <pcd> (you can write kernels that are small enough to be fully understood, but those are mostly just toys)
[22:38:30] <copec> How much much more API does illumos have on top of posix?
[22:39:42] * copec actually browses overview of man pages
[22:41:00] <copec> I scored me a foreign copy of the minix book that will get here in a month
[22:41:20] <copec> I really like solaris internals with dtracing things
[22:42:00] <copec> That combo is like the best OS instruction I've found
[22:42:40] <jperkin> people learn in different ways, but I think one of the best ways is to just find something you want to change or fix or improve, and just keep working on it until you're done
[22:43:05] <jperkin> just reading things can be pretty dry and you end up forgetting 80% of it
[22:43:50] <copec> I'm an information mapper, but I've found most productive programmers are like the x-gamer's of focusing on doing something cool
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[22:45:25] <copec> They start out with balancing on a skateboard, and later on it turns into crazy moves
[22:52:29] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 11778 SMB server should report as a newer server version -- Andrew Stormont <astormont at racktopsystems dot com>
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[23:11:17] <copec> While studying the kernel scheduler I came across https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/Windows-Kernel-Internals/One-Windows-Kernel/ba-p/267142
[23:11:32] <copec> [illumos] kernel scheduler
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[23:16:16] <copec> I wish there was a Sun still around. I would like to have worked towards being an engineer there.
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   October 9, 2019
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