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   August 8, 2019
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[00:19:23] <copec> What OS are you guyths using for your desktop workstations these days?
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[01:12:52] <sjorge> macOS
[01:12:57] <sjorge> Or FreeBSD
[01:13:06] <sjorge> Prefer macOS though
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[02:41:11] <danmcd> @copec MacOS
[02:42:15] <jollyd> copec: Debian and OI
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[03:10:23] <bdha> Fedora.
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[06:09:44] <LeftWing> copec: Ubuntu
[06:35:50] <tsoome> macos:)
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[08:02:50] <tsoome> Moin:)
[08:03:19] <tsoome> https://illumos.org/rb/r/2211/ still needs eyes, pretty please:)
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[08:27:55] <jollyd> tsoome: merry christmas
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[09:19:40] <leoric> if you build illumos-gate on latest OI don't forget to add 'export BUILDPY2TOOLS="#"' to illumos.sh
[09:19:51] <leoric> latest - means from this morning
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[10:44:19] <toasterson> copec (IRC): Archlinux + KDE
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[10:53:06] <jperkin> macOS + pkgsrc (obvs)
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[11:17:35] <leoric> OI?
[11:18:19] <leoric> and Ubuntu for notebook
[11:18:31] <Agnar> OI+mate for notebook :)
[11:19:14] <leoric> do you know if there's some slack client which would work on OI?
[11:19:35] <Agnar> I don't use slack, sorry
[11:19:40] <leoric> and yes, OI on my notebook sucks :(
[11:21:10] <Agnar> it's nearly perfect on my x230
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[11:28:16] <Agnar> but I activly chose the x230 because usually thinkpads run very well with illumos
[11:32:04] <psydroid> but that is installed in UEFI legacy mode, right?
[11:32:46] <Agnar> correct
[11:49:53] <toasterson> leoric (IRC): It's web only anyway. so firefox
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[11:59:27] <leoric> when you have 100 tabs, using FF for something which needs quick access is annoying ;)
[11:59:59] <jimklimov1> leoric: load-balance
[12:00:06] <jimklimov1> have 20 windows of 20 tabs each :-D
[12:00:50] <jimklimov1> looking for plugin or option though, so Firefox would not eat all CPU and traffic with tabs I'm not looking at
[12:01:25] <jimklimov1> at least those that are not current ones in some window (I guess checking for whether the window is minimized or not-top is too much?)
[12:09:56] <Agnar> according to what I hear about the slack web interface, it's probably a good idea to start this firefox instance in a seperate capped zone :)
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[13:32:35] <toasterson> leoric (IRC): Treetab addon or pin the tab to front. Or as jimlkimov suggested load balance.
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[14:32:04] <leoric> danmcd: Hi. Can you look at https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/pull/5211/files ? Do I understand this patch correctly?
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[15:04:46] <danmcd> Pardon delay, leoric.
[15:05:44] <andy_js> What would cause the keyboard to not work in KMDB?
[15:06:55] <danmcd> So leoric, yes, it appears it's adding an ARP entry to prevent broadcasts.
[15:08:01] <danmcd> BTW, are these dhcpd diffs also in the OmniOS versions of these by any chance? If not, let someone there know about this?
[15:13:28] <tsoome> andy_js: old bug, but I’m not sure when and why it does appear
[15:13:43] <tsoome> andy_js: you mean with boot -kd ?
[15:13:48] <andy_js> I sure do.
[15:15:25] <tsoome> yes, I have seen it, but as I wrote, I havent quite managed to catch. This was one of the reasons why I did add diag-device property, so I could try to debug it when the bug does surface:D
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[15:27:48] <jimklimov1> andy_js: in my case I don't know the cause, but the old laptop (IIRC Thinkpad Edge 335, AMD APU based) never saw the kbd when booting in debug mode. No idea what the wiring there is, but maybe it went throu e.g. USB controller and the kmdb had no support for that?..
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[15:28:07] <jimklimov1> as far as guesswork for anecdotal experience goes...
[15:29:14] <andy_js> I’m using a PS/2 keyboard.
[15:30:59] <andy_js> I’m in the process of trying to switch over to serial to see if that makes any difference, but I’m not expecting it to do any good.
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[15:34:05] <tsoome> I have seen -kd issues with vmware fusion, but it was with some previous version...
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[16:27:09] <leoric> danmcd: thanks
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[17:36:12] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 11527 elf-tests simple-src.c triggers compiler errors -- Robert Mustacchi <rm at joyent dot com>
[17:40:16] <jlevon> soo... anyone even vaguely familiar with all the long double code in libc?
[17:40:42] <jlevon> especially interesting in that its -m32 size under gcc is not 128 bits.
[17:40:47] <jlevon> but all this code seems to believe so
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[17:54:23] <kayront> if my VM has a filesystem with 32KB block size, should the host (smartos) have the corresponding zvol volblocksize also set to 32KB ?
[17:56:22] <jimklimov> kayront: possibly yes, if not a multiple of that
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[17:57:13] <jimklimov> there were some documents back in Solaris times about tuning ZFS for databases, and the rule of thumb was for ZFS blocks hosting about 4 DB pages
[17:57:47] <kayront> what is the most straightforward way to go about the change? is it possible to clone a zvol and then change it there? zfs send and receive? create a new zvol and dd the heck out of it?
[17:58:56] <kayront> jimklimov: regarding the multiples, that would only make sense on mostly sequential workloads, yes? (not the case)
[17:59:32] <jimklimov> to be honest, I don't remember OTOH if you can change the recordsize of an existing volume, or can only set it at creation :-D
[17:59:43] <kayront> only at creation
[17:59:48] <kayront> i've already made peace with that
[17:59:48] <kayront> :D
[17:59:53] <jimklimov> then this is it about cloning too ;)
[18:00:29] <kayront> i was afraid you might say that
[18:00:30] <kayront> :p
[18:00:45] <jimklimov> possibly also for sending+receiving, at least if it would insist on using original properties and won't let you override them (maybe it would)
[18:02:14] <jimklimov> dd sounds like a viable idea, you might want to zero out unused blocks in that hosted FS first (e.g. cat /dev/zero > /bigfile & sleep 1 ; rm /bigfile)
[18:02:54] <jimklimov> and use compression (even if just zle) to cancel out the empties when you receive
[18:03:22] <jimklimov> yeah, and sync that FS and snapshot the original to DD from the static snapshot state ;)
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[18:05:18] <jimklimov> in fact, you can also checksum the original snapshot and the received volume contents to make sure the copy went well
[18:06:01] <jimklimov> if not, I think I had success with rsync of block device nodes to catch up the occasional disk/net error without redoing all the gigabytes of traffic
[18:07:21] <jimklimov> as for block sizes, remember that for each "userdata" leaf block, ZFS would also maintain a tree of indirect nodes all the way up to the pool label to track any changes
[18:07:55] <jimklimov> so for every changed block of the hosted filesystem with a 1:1 mapping you'd have half a dozen if not more changes in the ZFS tree
[18:08:53] <jimklimov> with proper (L2)ARC and ZIL setup it might not hit as hard as without them I/O-wise, but then there's also the basic storage size overheads associated with that
[18:09:08] <jimklimov> and also that the metadata blocks are redundantly stored
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[18:09:39] <rmustacc> I would not recommend using a multiple of the block size in ZFS of say a DB size.
[18:09:50] <rmustacc> That will turn all of your writes into read-modify-writes.
[18:10:02] <rmustacc> If you're worried about it, match it.
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[18:12:53] <jimklimov> that is also quite a valid point :-)
[18:13:05] <jimklimov> so I'd guess it depends a lot on the (expected) workload
[18:13:38] <jimklimov> if your hosted FS stored lots of likely-sequential movies, a large recordsize on the hosting ZFS is reasonable
[18:14:00] <jimklimov> if you store thousands of ccache objects from builds, or emails, or... - then not
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[18:14:26] <rmustacc> Just remember if you're doing rmw a streaming write can suddenly become a random read workload.
[18:14:35] <rmustacc> Particularly on HDDs, that'll be rather painful.
[18:14:39] <rmustacc> May not matter for what you're doing.
[18:16:59] <LeftWing> leoric: I've been using https://github.com/wee-slack/wee-slack
[18:17:33] <LeftWing> If another open source project starts using Slack, though, I think I might jump into the bay
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[18:19:18] <tsoome> does anyone have time to look on https://illumos.org/rb/r/2211/ ?:)
[18:19:30] <rmustacc> I can in a minute.
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[18:28:53] <tsoome> cool:)
[18:31:33] <tsoome> thanks.)
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[18:54:51] <neirac> this page is missing from smartos wiki, https://wiki.smartos.org/display/DOC/Building+SmartOS+on+SmartOS are the instructions to build SmartOs on SmartOS somewhere else on the wiki ?
[18:56:05] <rmustacc> In the current docs it is translted to the more up to date link to https://github.com/joyent/smartos-live#building-smartos
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[18:58:06] <neirac> rmustacc thanks a lot!
[19:12:35] <tsoome> rmustacc: if you have a bit of time, I did fix the whitespace issue in https://illumos.org/rb/r/2186/ :)
[19:13:04] <rmustacc> tsoome: Sorry, missed the update. I'll take a look at that in a minute.
[19:13:11] <tsoome> thanks:)
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[19:52:29] <andy_js> How come the ucode update was backed out?
[19:52:49] <rmustacc> So, this is mostly on me not having put up newer ones for review.
[19:53:00] <rmustacc> We've been using it, but there were some hardlink questions that I failed on.
[19:53:18] <rmustacc> In terms of that one being backed out, I believe it was because we haven't updated the in-gate copy since the original Spectrev2 fiasco.
[19:53:27] <rmustacc> Where the initial MCU caused several issues.
[19:53:39] <rmustacc> Most folks will end up with newer MCU from BIOSes, etc.
[19:53:48] <rmustacc> But I should circle back and get the latest release in illumos-gate.
[19:53:53] <rmustacc> Thanks for reminding me.
[19:55:28] <rmustacc> andy_js: That help?
[19:55:57] <andy_js> It answered my question.
[19:56:12] <rmustacc> If you need a hand getting the latest MCU, let me know and I can help.
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[20:06:09] <rmustacc> andy_js: Did you make any progress on your CLX issues?
[20:11:45] <copec> re: my desktop OS question - I run Debian, but hardly use my desktop workstation anymore, since I got a MBP in 2015, using macos on it
[20:14:50] <copec> It is the pure Intel chipset version, so OI would probably run fine on it, but I've been wrapped up in the Apple ecosystem
[20:14:57] <tsoome> I have illumos on my workstation, but technically it is not desktop as It does not have display attached:D
[20:15:56] <tsoome> https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base?view=revision&revision=350772 :)
[20:16:19] <tsoome> but no reviews on https://illumos.org/rb/r/1336/
[20:16:43] <rmustacc> Looks like Matt did start to review?
[20:17:04] <tsoome> yep, I do guess he is busy as always:)
[20:17:13] <rmustacc> Maybe ask Jerry or kkantor to follow up?
[20:17:25] <tsoome> oh, thats good idea.
[20:17:29] <tsoome> I’ll mail him
[20:18:08] <kkantor> Boot code! Cool.
[20:18:33] <kkantor> I can start taking a look at that too.
[20:18:51] <tsoome> yeee, that would be cool.
[20:19:06] <tsoome> after that I can start poking crypto bits;)
[20:19:40] <rmustacc> Thanks Kody.
[20:20:15] <tsoome> We gave fbsd version 2 weeks on current, then we will try to get it into 12.1 release.
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[20:27:39] <andy_js> rmustacc: Nope. CLX is still totally broken.
[20:28:38] <rmustacc> OK, well, if there's something I can help with, please reach out.
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[22:23:56] <richlowe> I'm guessing there's a clx other than the one I know of?
[22:24:08] <rmustacc> cascade lake
[22:24:10] <rmustacc> Xeon
[22:24:21] <richlowe> that makes more sense.
[22:24:25] <rmustacc> (I think that's what it stands for)
[22:24:58] <rmustacc> The names are Intel names. You can get a list of lots of confusing ones in usr/src/data/perfmon
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[22:31:28] <jlevon> ptribble: BTW that -Wno-uninitialized change has a good chance of breaking you.
[22:32:08] <ptribble> I wondered about that. But isn't it a no-op for gcc4?
[22:32:38] <richlowe> jlevon: presumably you're not breaking the 4 shadow?
[22:32:51] <richlowe> do you just mean that it's going to find more things wrong on sparc?
[22:33:29] <rmustacc> It's making the assumption that most -Wno-unitialized warnings are actually just -Wno-maybe-unitialized.
[22:33:35] <rmustacc> That might not be true for some of the SPARC code.
[22:34:48] <ptribble> Sparc doesn't build with gcc7, so that just makes more things for me to fix when I get to gcc7
[22:35:01] <ptribble> Or am I misinterpreting this?
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[22:43:51] <tsoome> wanna cry? see this: /code/illumos-gate/usr/src/cmd/make/lib/mksh/dosys.cc:534:20: error: invalid conversion from 'int' to 'wchar_t*'
[22:48:12] <jollyd> tsoome: already looking at the gcc-9 errors? ;)
[22:48:28] <richlowe> make just has has _so many_ ways to make me cry
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[22:50:23] <rmustacc> I was thinking that we should give Rich the gift of a new make, but then https://xkcd.com/927/
[22:51:39] <tsoome> :D
[22:53:10] <tsoome> I have to say, I like gcc9 pointing out int to pointer assignments
[22:54:28] <richlowe> in concept, yes.
[22:54:33] <richlowe> in practice, I can only imagine what it'll find.
[22:55:43] <tsoome> Cheshire Cat?
[22:56:38] <jollyd> my favourite
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[23:01:21] <tsoome> ok, gcc9 defaults to 64-bit code generation?
[23:02:26] <jollyd> tsoome: there are a few issue in the gate's makefile related to that
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[23:03:06] <tsoome> yep, tools/make for one.
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[23:13:14] <richlowe> sorry :(
[23:13:23] <richlowe> did -m32 just escape C++ in general?
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[23:20:51] <jlevon> richlowe: right, gcc4 still gets -Wno-uninitialized
[23:22:24] <richlowe> jlevon: what am I missing about how it breaks ptribble?
[23:26:35] <jlevon> yeah it shouldn't, I temp. forgot about gcc7 on sparc
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[23:47:54] <jollyd> tsoome: I have some time during my vacation if you need some help
[23:48:16] <jollyd> tsoome: reviewing, byte-size fixes
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   August 8, 2019
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