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[00:06:10] <MilkmanDan> Has there been any meaty discussion of the future of Illumos and its downstreams now that Joyent seems to be in a managed decline?
[00:07:03] <MilkmanDan> I haven't seen any here but I only skim, and searching for threads online seems like a good way to get nothing but trolls and flames.
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[01:23:19] <MilkmanDan> Slightly related: PlanetIllumos doesn't have TLS?
[01:29:20] <richlowe> there's a planetillumos?
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[01:47:35] <tsoome> https://paste.ec/paste/DzJu1a5i#gBO6uAq0SD7P4FvRi5hbXD-MletZLUVC9I/DlWMIQeh :)
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[02:14:27] <richlowe> yeesh, getconf is a pain in the ass.
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[07:57:55] <LeftWing> MilkmanDan: Though some prominent folks work at Joyent, they're not the only company involved. We also have some prolific and knowledgeable unaffiliated contributors, and we're working toward having more!
[07:59:13] <LeftWing> I don't think we've had a planet site in some time. What's the URL?
[08:01:12] <tsoome> g’morning
[08:01:42] <tsoome> LeftWing: had you chance to test?:)
[08:02:25] <LeftWing> g'night on this end! I have not. We spent the day driving towards holidays. More driving tomorrow and then we'll be there and I'll give it a spin.
[08:03:09] <tsoome> aye, I’ll create iso myself too anyhow:)
[08:03:40] <LeftWing> Cool
[08:03:44] <LeftWing> Thanks for looking at it
[08:04:10] <LeftWing> I'm keen to use our bhyve more, and this should be a big ho
[08:04:19] <LeftWing> *big help
[08:08:29] <tsoome> yea, still need to investigate the serial io issue.
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[09:38:26] <wiedi> LeftWing: http://planetillumos.org
[09:38:28] <wiedi> MilkmanDan: I'll look into fixing it
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[14:41:52] <leoric> andyf: have you looked at converting usr/src/test/test-runner/cmd/run to Python 3?
[14:42:05] <leoric> or something which works with both?
[14:48:13] <tsoome> LeftWing: I did test with iso from http://148-52-235-80.sta.estpak.ee - was ok
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[16:26:43] <leoric> https://www.illumos.org/issues/11518 - please review fix for date test (in issue)
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[16:28:24] <jlevon> leoric: looks good
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[16:55:58] <alciregi> hello
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[16:57:25] <alciregi> I'm on smartos, after a recent update I'm unable to mount a samba share. I suspect it is related to some protocol version. There is a way to specify the protocol version or something else?
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[17:43:45] <LeftWing> alciregi: What platform version (uname -v) are you running, and what is the error that you get?
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[18:31:13] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 11453 zpool: NULL pointer errors -- Toomas Soome <tsoome at me dot com>
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[20:29:12] <MilkmanD1n> LeftWing: I understand the optimism and I agree that the community is bigger than Joyent. But ever since the acquisition SmartOS' future has been less than assured.
[20:29:16] *** MilkmanD1n is now known as MilkmanDan
[20:29:35] <MilkmanDan> That's what I'm getting at.
[20:31:42] <MilkmanDan> A lot of the original team has gone on to other things, most significantly Brendan becoming pretty close to a Linux evangelist. I'm wondering what Bryan is thinking. He didn't say too much right after his announcement.
[20:33:21] <rmustacc> Leaders inspire, but there's a lot of folks that end up doing and picking up the work and doing parts of it. It's important to remember that. But make the choices that make the most sense for your uses. If that's illumos, great. If not, that's fine too.
[20:34:46] <MilkmanDan> rmustacc: I'm not asking "should I install distro X". I'm looking at the much larger picture of "what can I expect the future to hold for Illumos and derivatives".
[20:35:01] <rmustacc> I understand. And I'm just trying to say there'll still be some future.
[20:35:19] <rmustacc> It may not be what you want or serve your needs, but that's how all of this stuff goes, right?
[20:35:37] <MilkmanDan> I certainly hope so. The only scenarios I can imagine where Illumos ceases to exist completely generally involve dystopias or alien invasion. :)
[20:35:57] <bahamat> MilkmanDan: I imagine that if Joyent went away, or stopped supporting SmartOS, it would go very much like when OmniTI stopped supporting OmniOS.
[20:36:08] <rmustacc> When I worry about someone there, I instead look to the folks who are spending a lot of time here in the broader community doing a lot of work.
[20:36:25] <rmustacc> That's a lot of folks that inspire me and help me want to do more.
[20:36:59] <MilkmanDan> bahamat: How much of the SmartOS non-core distro is proprietary?
[20:37:02] <rmustacc> And it's important not to ignore all the work they do in keeping it up and moving us forward. In some ways it's much more important, than any one person or individual.
[20:37:08] <bahamat> MilkmanDan: none.
[20:37:33] <MilkmanDan> None of the infrastructure and supporting code at all?
[20:37:53] <bahamat> All of the code for smartos and triton is 100% open source.
[20:37:58] <MilkmanDan> I can download Manta and all the storage bits and everything?
[20:38:16] <MilkmanDan> Wow, uh, ok. I completely misread that.
[20:38:27] <bahamat> You can download and run Manta right now.
[20:38:48] <bahamat> If you have adequate hardware, you can run a manta install as big, or larger than any that we do.
[20:38:50] <MilkmanDan> Pardon me while I go build a complete hosting company, brb. :)
[20:39:17] <bahamat> Feel free.
[20:40:01] <bahamat> Honestly, having a hosting company isn't about whether or not you can get the software. There have been open source hosting platforms before Joyent got on the scene.
[20:40:28] <bahamat> It's really about if you can fund the physical compute capacity necessary to seriously take on AWS, Azure, & GCE.
[20:41:31] <Agnar> .o( get bought by IBM, as my current (indirect) employer )
[20:44:29] <MilkmanDan> I'm joking of course.
[20:45:25] <tsoome> hrm, weird, why we switch to serial if we have usable FB…
[20:45:38] <MilkmanDan> I'm obviously not going to go start a competitor to ~Joyent just because I can download the software. But I was for a time investigating whether or not any companies were using the stack for their own private clouds, and if I could make a career out of supporting it if they did.
[20:46:20] <dsockwell> thats supposedly joyent's business now that their public cloud will retire
[20:46:25] <bahamat> There are a number of companies running it.
[20:46:51] <MilkmanDan> I go through bouts of nostalgia where I wish I could roll back the clock and work on OpenSolaris on lovely Sparc hardware and never have to suffer systemd again, etc.
[20:47:37] <MilkmanDan> dsockwell: RedHat-style support contracts of the SmartOS stack?
[20:47:46] <bahamat> There are plenty of ways to not have to deal with systemd, if you happen to be someone who is empowered to make that decision.
[20:47:58] <dsockwell> something along those lines. i wouldn't know more than is on their website
[20:48:58] <bahamat> MilkmanDan: You can either have a support contract, or have us completely manage your private cloud.
[20:49:11] <MilkmanDan> bahamat: I am, to an extent. But in the end those decisions are dictated by "the market", whatever that means.
[20:49:31] <MilkmanDan> That's interesting.
[20:56:40] <Agnar> MilkmanDan: if you found a market niche for illumos/sparc, let me know, I'll be your partner ;)
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[20:57:19] <MilkmanDan> Maybe we need to make it ourselves. :)
[20:57:57] <MilkmanDan> bahamat: I'll go revisit the docs with a new eye towards private clouds, now that I'm corrected about what all is open source. But for the fully managed option, can you tell me exactly how you guys do that? Would I essentially set up a VPN to ~Joyent and give your people access to the management LAN?
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[20:58:50] <bahamat> MilkmanDan: No, basically you choose how much capacity and growth over time you want, and we buy it, install it, manage it.
[20:58:53] <MilkmanDan> (Are there publicly visible docs on how that architecture is set up?)
[20:59:21] <bahamat> It's like a public cloud, but 100% dedicated to a single customer.
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[20:59:42] <bahamat> Yes, there are public docs on both Triton and Manta architecture.
[21:00:43] <MilkmanDan> I meant the private cloud/support relationship architecture.
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[21:01:13] <bahamat> Well, the full details get worked out with your sales representative.
[21:01:50] <bahamat> Start here: https://www.joyent.com/triton/managed-private-cloud
[21:02:00] <bahamat> Then contact sales to work out exactly what you want.
[21:04:43] <MilkmanDan> I'm trying to understand how I would pitch this to a client as a solution like "this is better than running Cloudstack for our private cloud". But it sounds like the answer is "have them call ~Joyent and thanks for the referral..."
[21:05:51] <bahamat> Well, I'm in operations. I don't know how to recommend you become a middle-man in this business model.
[21:09:03] <MilkmanDan> I'm not looking to become a middle-man. I'm looking for a way to leverage many years of experience in the Solaris and Linux world to build and/or maintain solutions that are less annoying to me than Ubuntu and RHEL deployments with all their systemd nonsense.
[21:09:42] <MilkmanDan> Maybe that's just "work for Fujitsu".
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[21:11:28] <bahamat> I don't know, I see no shortage of AWS consultants out there.
[21:14:18] <MilkmanDan> And I wish them all of the, ahem, "good luck with that". :)
[21:17:07] <ptribble> Alternatively, have a look at what some of the smaller players like Danube Cloud are doing
[21:17:14] <bahamat> What I mean is, do whatever they're doing, but for illumos.
[21:17:24] <Agnar> MilkmanDan: well, if you want containers and less linux, redhat is searching for openshift consultants world-wide. no systemd, but other "pains"
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[21:17:43] <bahamat> But like I said, I'm not in a position to be recommending business models to anyone.
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[21:19:26] <MilkmanDan> bahamat: That's fine. I appreciate the clues.
[21:21:53] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 11511 usbsacm fails to open sigma designs device -- Mike Zeller <mike at mikezeller dot net>
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[21:34:15] <MilkmanDan> Slightly related: how the heck is this guy doing that writing? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0bziEVHyqg
[21:34:33] <MilkmanDan> I don't even care about Openshift anymore. I just want to be able to make videos like that.
[21:39:52] <dsockwell> it looks like he's writing on glass with some side lighting and then they're applying a mirror effect to the video
[21:39:53] <bahamat> Lots of practice.
[21:40:16] <dsockwell> you have to be left-handed though
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[21:44:29] <MilkmanDan> How are they mirroring it, though? His shirt isn't mirrored.
[21:44:55] <MilkmanDan> And his writing looks completely natural, not like he's doing it backwards.
[21:46:16] <dsockwell> way easier to make a backward shirt too
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[21:46:44] <dsockwell> look at his eyes though maybe he's watching it in a mirror
[21:47:37] <dsockwell> not all the time though.
[21:47:52] <MilkmanDan> Nope. It's flipped in post production. He must have a shirt with the logo reversed.
[21:48:02] <MilkmanDan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7E_L4wCPTc
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[21:48:18] <MilkmanDan> Sneaky. Had me fooled completely.
[21:49:17] <dsockwell> hahahahahahaha
[21:49:40] <dsockwell> he's in his boxer shorts in that second vid
[21:49:48] <MilkmanDan> Yep! :)
[21:50:12] <MilkmanDan> I just presume every Youtube star is naked wherever the camera doesn't show.
[21:50:18] <dsockwell> is he really left handed then
[21:50:23] <dsockwell> is there a double gotcha going on
[21:50:31] <MilkmanDan> Probably not.
[21:52:24] <Agnar> MilkmanDan: yes, and they are actually dogs.
[21:52:34] <Agnar> except on IRC
[21:52:43] <MilkmanDan> Best videos are dog videos.
[21:52:56] <Agnar> IRC: where men are men, women are men and the little girls are FBI agents
[21:54:27] <dsockwell> which ones are GRU agents?
[21:54:43] <MilkmanDan> Everyone on Twitter.
[21:54:53] <Agnar> MilkmanDan: exactly
[21:56:07] <dsockwell> if everyone on twitter was a dog instead i'd be happier
[21:56:30] <Agnar> maybe they are GRU dogs?
[21:59:17] <MilkmanDan> I think Jason Rahm is trolling the Internet with his Openshift video. His shirt and wedding ring placement suggest he's left handed and writing backwards.
[21:59:57] <dsockwell> in absence of any direct evidence to the contrary i choose to believe that version too
[22:00:29] <MilkmanDan> Behind the Scenes video was probably filmed later so maybe they changed workflows at some point.
[22:01:45] <MilkmanDan> This is a plot to get Openshift to go viral.
[22:02:12] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 11518 date test is incorrect -- Alexander Pyhalov <apyhalov at gmail dot com>
[22:02:19] <MilkmanDan> Somebody open a kickstarter for a SmartOS response.
[22:04:13] <dsockwell> i propose that someone write tutorials on the canopy of an F-14 in a 4G inverted dive with a MiG
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[22:11:27] <wiedi> MilkmanDan: https for the planet is now enabled
[22:14:43] <MilkmanDan> Hooray!
[22:15:15] <MilkmanDan> I'll notify all the world's hackers that they can give up and retire.
[22:16:11] <dsockwell> 's' does stand for 'secure'
[22:16:14] <dsockwell> no more hacking ever
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[22:21:24] <Agnar> too many broken software and too little time&clue
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   August 5, 2019  
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