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[00:00:07] <jlevon> so 3 years ago
[00:00:10] <arekinath> the history here is kinda messy iirc, but the idea of blocking /dev/random after boot is something that other people imported from Linux as I understand it
[00:00:54] <arekinath> and then fixed up in openbsd and others years ago
[00:01:11] <arekinath> I think in all of the BSDs now urandom and random are the same device
[00:01:24] <LeftWing> Probably a reasonable position
[00:01:27] <arekinath> (I might be wrong?)
[00:01:30] <jlevon> I'm not saying I'm exactly a systemd fan, but so much snark over something that's actually that new in one of the major OS's?
[00:01:45] <arekinath> ah, the snark is mostly about them using rdrand directly
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[00:02:05] <arekinath> which basically everybody has been jumping up and down and saying is a bad idea forever
[00:02:16] <arekinath> (using rdrand directly in user code)
[00:02:25] <jlevon> some of it sure
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[00:02:29] <LeftWing> Yeah I feel like RDRAND has been considered suspicious since inception
[00:02:39] <jlevon> maybe not twitter at its best
[00:02:52] <LeftWing> Not sure what its best would look like, to be honest :P
[00:02:53] <arekinath> we probably see different parts of twitter to one another, heh
[00:03:11] <arekinath> the snark I've seen was mostly about them using rdrand :P
[00:03:33] <jlevon> the same google person was complaining vociferously about the rest of it too.
[00:03:48] <LeftWing> I think that person enjoys a good complain
[00:03:59] <LeftWing> (Not to say it isn't a considered position, just...)
[00:04:07] <arekinath> I saw some tweet about how Linux's entropy pool "running out" was one of the greatest crimes against cryptography perpetrated by any extant operating system
[00:04:16] <arekinath> which I thought was decent snark
[00:04:32] <richlowe> jlevon: well, the snark is surely what they do _next_
[00:04:56] <jlevon> richlowe: hah right. it's lennart.
[00:05:09] <LeftWing> Prepare for the ritual slamming of doors
[00:05:20] <LeftWing> The shooting of messengers
[00:05:23] <LeftWing> The blaming of victims!
[00:06:05] <jlevon> arekinath: it seems a little brutal? the entire cryptography community never thought to do something about such a crime until 2016?
[00:06:24] <richlowe> You can be like "This blocking thing seems overboard", and "the rdrand thing is maybe overboard", but when you get to just using rand()?
[00:06:48] <LeftWing> I feel like we've known about rand() for a while
[00:06:51] <arekinath> jlevon: pretty sure they were trying very hard to do something much earlier, and met with a lot of resistance
[00:07:05] <arekinath> jlevon: the /dev/random entropy "running out" thing has been an old mailinglist football since the early 2000s
[00:07:11] <jlevon> arekinath: ugh, really? well then.
[00:07:14] <LeftWing> What I have observed, with people trying to get the systemd project to do anything, is that they are super resistant to anything that Lennart didn't think of first
[00:07:30] <richlowe> when I got to this one: https://twitter.com/FiloSottile/status/1125843366837616640 I was like "Oh, sure, whatever, go to town"
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[00:08:37] <rmustacc> If something similar was found as a problem in arc4random() impl or other things I was responsible for, I'd be pretty demotivated and drained from it.
[00:09:17] <LeftWing> I'm not saying it's good behaviour per se, but I think the difference is (in my experience) that you, rmustacc, are pretty likely to want to fix things
[00:09:50] <richlowe> I'm just not very good at being nice yet :)
[00:10:24] <LeftWing> I think we can all agree that Twitter is an electric shouting trumpet, though
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[00:10:34] <LeftWing> And not a great place for serious technical discourse
[00:11:34] <arekinath> yeah it didn't seem like that productive a way to raise the issues to me, but it's also systemd
[00:11:42] <arekinath> so it's not like there's anywhere else more productive, based on previous behaviour
[00:11:47] <arekinath> might as well whinge
[00:11:49] <arekinath> on twitter
[00:11:51] <LeftWing> This is what I'm trying to say
[00:11:56] <jlevon> that's a fair point.
[00:11:58] <LeftWing> I've read a lot of issues on their repos and such
[00:12:07] <LeftWing> Where they just slam the door on people with legitimate concerns
[00:12:21] <LeftWing> So I think people are frustrated and have no other outlet or mechanism for engagement
[00:12:59] <LeftWing> The lesson for us is to not be like they are, to the extent that people can only complain on twitter
[00:14:16] <richlowe> I mean, we usually join in.
[00:14:59] <LeftWing> Complaining about ourselves? :P
[00:15:04] <richlowe> yeah.
[00:15:08] <LeftWing> haha, indeed
[00:15:15] <LeftWing> "Yes, indeed, that is pants"
[00:16:31] <andyf> richlowe - gcc 7.4, apparently we were having problems building something C++ and the compiler bug was fixed in 7.4
[00:16:50] <richlowe> ok.
[00:17:07] <richlowe> it'd just be so much _better_ if we all used the same illumos gccs, and I'm not sure what I need to do to get there
[00:17:07] <LeftWing> Is there a big difference between 7.3 and 7.4?
[00:17:30] <richlowe> LeftWing: at least a week of running test suites, based on how testing 7.3 went...
[00:17:42] <andyf> @LeftWing - 179 bug fixes according to their bugzilla
[00:17:47] <LeftWing> OK
[00:17:58] <LeftWing> Do they do big featurey sort of changes in a minor roll?
[00:18:13] <LeftWing> i.e., is 7.3 -> 7.4 mostly bug fixes, and -> 8.0 is features?
[00:18:22] <andyf> @richlowe - yeah, but I don't really want to have to ship two copies of the compiler
[00:18:34] <andyf> @LeftWing - yes, they changed their scheme back in 5 IIRC
[00:18:41] <richlowe> andyf: right, so I'm trying to work out how best to handle both.
[00:19:06] <richlowe> andyf: so that if you have a reason to upgrade, you pull request the new branch, rather than laying the patches on top and mentioning it on IRC :)
[00:20:26] <richlowe> but I subscribe to a theory that a compiler is either fine or not, which I know not everyone does.
[00:23:41] <andyf> I have no idea how to pull request a new branch :D
[00:23:54] <andyf> I do have a fork of illumos/gcc with a 7.4 branch in it..
[00:24:00] <richlowe> I migt have to mean that figuratively :)
[00:24:36] <richlowe> or base the branch on gcc-7_4...?
[00:25:25] <richlowe> ugh, but you can't against a tag can you?
[00:25:35] <richlowe> andyf: We'll figure it out!
[00:26:51] <richlowe> though ideally after my outstanding changes to the illumos 7.3 get reviewed :)
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[01:54:30] <Smithx10> LeftWing: Twitter is for trolling... right?
[01:54:42] <Smithx10> I thought it had no other purpose
[01:59:21] <Smithx10> toasterson: congrats on 0.0.2! :)
[02:15:38] <neirac> Smithx10 have you been able to rebuild nomad ?
[02:16:10] <Smithx10> shit neirac just got in from my run 1 sec
[02:16:12] <Smithx10> ill give it a go
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[02:17:32] <Cthulhux> jperkin: are you around?
[02:19:42] <Cthulhux> ok, i'll try again this weekend. good night everyone ;-)
[02:23:38] <neirac> Smithx10 no problem
[02:29:10] <Smithx10> neirac: I never pushed the docker delete
[02:29:12] <Smithx10> "_"
[02:29:18] <Smithx10> git pull and try again
[02:29:38] <Smithx10> That can be fixed if docker used the latest version of term
[02:29:46] <Smithx10> as toasterson mentioned *
[02:31:13] <Smithx10> errrr, i neve rpushed any changes up :(
[02:33:34] <neirac> Smithx10 I still have the problem with the cannot find module for path github.com/nicolai86/scaleway-sdk/api ; but you pushed the nomad-illumos binary, it's working on omnios
[02:36:30] <Smithx10> trying again 1 sec
[02:36:46] <Smithx10> yeah but that binary..... doesnt have the gopsutil pr in it
[02:37:19] <neirac> oh ok
[02:37:45] <Smithx10> Ill post a gist with how I got it to build on what image
[02:42:06] <Smithx10> neirac: https://gist.github.com/Smithx10/cb23deae609c2af5aafc06f697970bf3
[02:42:11] <Smithx10> thats what I did to get it to build .
[02:52:26] <neirac> Smithx10 thanks a lot
[02:52:41] <Smithx10> neirac: it worked?
[03:01:50] <neirac> Smithx10 just cloning nomad to test the gist
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[04:40:46] <neirac> Smithx10 which go version are you using ?
[04:49:09] <Smithx10> go version go1.11.5 solaris/amd64
[05:17:12] <LeftWing> I have a copy of 1.12.1 if you wish it
[05:17:31] <LeftWing> https://download.joyent.com/pub/build/go/adhoc/
[05:22:37] <richlowe> loving this transformation
[05:24:01] <bdha> Transformation?
[05:24:09] <richlowe> LeftWing into full on Go person
[05:24:12] <bdha> Please tell me we're the Autobots. :+
[05:24:15] <bdha> uh oh
[05:24:26] <richlowe> alternate joke, "Now I see why they call them Gophers"
[05:24:27] <bdha> Them's fightin' words, I reckon.
[05:24:51] <Smithx10> lol the puritans are gathering :P
[05:25:17] <Smithx10> How do you tell if someone uses go.... do they float in water?
[05:25:21] <bdha> I don't have a hamster in this fight, gopher, whatever. I'm not even in the industry now!
[05:25:33] <Smithx10> bdha: you dont do puters anymore?
[05:25:36] <jbk> or they're a witch?
[05:25:39] <bdha> Taking a break.
[05:25:42] <bdha> Maybe I'll become a witch.
[05:25:53] <Smithx10> Werent you hacking on some AWS job?
[05:26:01] <Smithx10> or some job that was using the "AWS"
[05:26:10] <bdha> Yeah, wasn't a good fit. Though not because of the AWS stuff.
[05:26:16] <richlowe> bdha is on his way to goats.
[05:26:19] <bdha> Yup.
[05:26:23] <richlowe> though in a sense, aren't we all?
[05:26:30] <bdha> I've got bigger aspirations than Keith, though. GoatWorld.
[05:26:32] <bdha> (tm)
[05:35:30] <Smithx10> bdha: I hear tesla likes smart humans.
[05:35:37] <Smithx10> And you like traveling to asia :P
[05:42:34] * bdha twitches
[05:50:42] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 10896 Want support for AMD Zen CPC events -- Robert Mustacchi <rm at joyent dot com>
[05:59:04] <Smithx10> If illumos ever dies.... are we all meeting somewhere in montana to start our farm collective?
[06:39:15] <LeftWing> I don't like farming, as it turns out, so this basically all has to work.
[06:47:10] <bdha> Well, then!
[07:28:35] <tsoome> back to the roots, eh?:)
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[14:53:09] <Smithx10> pmooney: would be in charge of the bee's :P
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[16:17:39] <Smithx10> neirac: any luck?
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[16:45:18] <neirac> Smithx10, same error about cannot load github.com/nicolai86/scaleway-sdk/api: cannot find module providing package github.com/nicolai86/scaleway-sdk/api
[16:48:45] <toasterson> neirac you will need to change import paths to github.com/nicolai86/scaleway-sdk or use go modules so that you use the correct version
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[17:12:35] <Smithx10> neirac: its strange that it builds for me on my branch "_"
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[17:26:18] <neirac> Smithx10, toasterson I tried to replicate the steps from the Smithx10's gist again but now there is a new error, I posted my go env also in there https://pastebin.com/791DjvLr
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[17:35:25] <Smithx10> neirac: I'm not using go modules
[17:35:30] <Smithx10> maybe that is the issue?
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[17:59:43] <neirac> Smithx10 I'm hitting this one https://github.com/hashicorp/go-discover/issues/94
[18:01:45] <Smithx10> Did it build without go modules?
[18:01:57] <Smithx10> What version of golang are you using?
[18:02:33] <toasterson> ah that logrus casing problem. you can fix that with a line in go.mod
[18:02:47] <neirac> go version go1.12.1 solaris/amd64
[18:03:29] <toasterson> neirac add "replace github.com/sirupsen/logrus => github.com/sirupsen/logrus" at the bottom of the go-mod file and run go mod tidy
[18:03:48] <toasterson> or symlink the lowercase directory in gopath to the upercase one.
[18:04:09] <toasterson> s/go-mod/go.mod/
[18:20:13] <toasterson> does anybody know something the virtioblk subsystem? I am having trouble seing disks
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[19:26:13] <Cthulhux> why is sbcl in pkgsrc but my pkgin claims that "sbcl" is not known?
[19:31:09] <jperkin> Cthulhux: not everything in pkgsrc always builds on every platform
[19:31:52] <jperkin> that one is a _XOPEN_SOURCE issue so should be straight-forward to fix
[19:33:03] <Cthulhux> ah
[19:33:17] <Cthulhux> i remember that it _has_ worked once
[19:33:40] <Cthulhux> sorry for disturbing you yesterday by the way :)
[19:36:56] <jperkin> me? I don't recall being disturbed, at least apart from the state of my kids' room
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[19:38:52] <Cthulhux> i asked for you before going to bed because the sbcl problem disturbed me. so you dont have highlights on your nickname? good ;-)
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[19:43:52] <jperkin> I do but don't always see them (I would have done if #illumos wasn't left as my current channel overnight)
[19:44:42] <Cthulhux> no problem ;)
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[22:57:49] <neirac> Smithx10 I even failing in go get step for nomad
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[23:13:14] <Smithx10> huh
[23:13:22] <Smithx10> really?
[23:13:47] <Smithx10> Is your go env like completely fubar'd?
[23:36:53] <neirac> Smithx10 seems so, in the meantime I'm using the lxc driver as a starting point to use go-zone
[23:37:23] <Smithx10> Yeah
[23:37:35] <Smithx10> Did you try a fresh zone ?
[23:38:15] <neirac> Smithx10 oh no, I have not tried that, I'll create a new pkgsrc zone and try
[23:38:49] <Smithx10> I’m using the latest lts from Joyents images
[23:38:54] <Smithx10> It’s in that gist
[23:53:17] <neirac> Smithx10 I'm using Omnios, I'll try again tomorrow,at least now I have toasterson code working :)
[23:53:39] <Smithx10> neirac: great news!

   May 9, 2019  
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