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[03:45:00] <LeftWing> alanc: Does "man dtrace" give you (with no "-s") dtrace(4D) or dtrace(8)?
[03:45:16] <LeftWing> i.e., is section 8 now in the search order where 1M used to be?
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[03:47:14] <richlowe> I would hope so!
[03:48:09] <LeftWing> I guess you could go 1*, 8*, 2*, 3*, ...
[03:48:38] <richlowe> sort order used to be fairly complex
[03:48:46] <richlowe> I broke it when I integrated the manual pages, I think
[03:48:53] <LeftWing> I made it more complex in SmartOS through the use of man.cf
[03:48:56] <richlowe> but it used to be similar to what you suggest.
[03:49:02] <LeftWing> Because nobody gives a shit about shutdown(1B)
[03:49:24] <richlowe> can't wait to see my mailbox tomorrow!
[03:49:36] <LeftWing> I haven't sent any mail about it yet :P
[03:49:38] <LeftWing> Just lining up my ducks
[03:49:46] <richlowe> Cc bmc as well, you said he came around...
[03:49:53] <richlowe> share and share a like, I say
[03:50:08] <LeftWing> I think alanc's note about it being USL's fault sold him on the idea
[03:50:27] <LeftWing> richlowe: https://github.com/joyent/smartos-live/blob/14859a19c78b898ba24d7fc9992957bfdde3a902/tools/mancf/main.c#L50-L90
[03:51:24] <LeftWing> We end up with ...
[03:51:26] <LeftWing> MANSECTS=1,1m,1c,1b,2,3,3c,3socket,3avl,3bsm,3c_db,3cfgadm,3commputil,3contract,3cpc,3curses,3dat,3devid,3devinfo,3dlpi,3dns_sd,3elf,3exacct,3ext,3fcoe,3fstyp,3gen,3gss,3head,3kstat,3kvm,3ldap,3lgrp,3lib,3m,3mail,3malloc,3mp,3mpapi,3mvec,3nsl,3nvpair,3ofmt,3pam,3papi,3picl,3picltree,3pool,3proc,3project,3resolv,3rpc,3rsm,3sasl,3scf,3sec,3secdb,3sip,3slp,3stmf,3sysevent,3tecla,3tnf,3uuid,3vnd,3volmgt,3x11,3xa
[03:51:28] <LeftWing> u,3xaw,3xcurses,3xext,3xmu,3xnet,4,4b,5,7,7d,7fs,7i,7ipp,7m,7p,9,9e,9f,9p,9s,
[03:51:42] <richlowe> yeah, what I broke looked not dissimilar-ish?
[03:52:04] <LeftWing> I had assumed people just didn't install the UCB nonsense, and thus had never noticed shutdown(1B)
[03:52:20] <LeftWing> But if it used to be More Nuanced, I'm happy to bring that back
[03:52:25] <LeftWing> I'll take a look at what it used to do I guess
[03:53:41] <richlowe> 1,8,2,3... seems good
[03:53:49] <richlowe> the specifics of sub-section ordering I wouldn't want to think about.
[03:55:12] <LeftWing> Eh, I can almost certainly just take what I'm doing in mancf there with cm_manorders[] and ... add it to man
[03:55:40] <richlowe> This will mean anyone adding a subsection needs to know their business, right?
[03:55:53] <LeftWing> That _is_ true with mancf (which is horrid)
[03:56:00] <LeftWing> The reason I wrote the generator is so that that isn't true for us
[03:56:08] <richlowe> can you say "1, 8, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7", and then specify sub-orders for sub-sections?
[03:56:13] <LeftWing> i.e., it's a set of soft rules, but even unmentioned (sub)sections fit in a useful place in the order
[03:56:17] <LeftWing> Yes
[03:56:17] <richlowe> so people adding 3pigs win by default?
[03:56:28] <LeftWing> Basically I can say 1B will be last in the list no matter what
[03:56:35] <LeftWing> even if 1Z crops up
[03:56:50] <LeftWing> man.cf has to specify the entire order
[03:57:02] <richlowe> cool
[03:57:03] <LeftWing> But I believe man does a bunch of readdir and then sorts
[03:57:18] <LeftWing> So... a fuzzy sort based on a set of partial ordering rules seems like it would be OK
[03:57:31] <richlowe> we should get bdha &co to RFC the opposite of a cc header
[03:57:37] <richlowe> "never deliver this message to this recipient"
[03:57:42] <richlowe> apropos (haha) of nothing...
[03:57:46] <LeftWing> dd: richlowe
[03:57:48] <LeftWing> (Definitely Discard)
[03:58:07] <LeftWing> (Don't Deliver?)
[03:59:27] <LeftWing> richlowe: Yeah it seems we do a readdir() then qsort "Sort first by section, then by prefix."
[04:00:33] <LeftWing> (in man)
[04:01:19] <LeftWing> Where I think prefix means .. "man" or "cat"
[04:02:03] <richlowe> ah cat pages
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[04:10:45] <LeftWing> richlowe: Haha, we actually have old-to-new mapping in man(1) hilariously
[04:11:20] <LeftWing> https://github.com/illumos/illumos-gate/blob/1c802681fb0b5558958cd6f33bf56789a1b0ef29/usr/src/cmd/man/man.c#L71-L88
[04:13:22] <richlowe> someone page alanc and find how old "old" is.
[04:13:26] <richlowe> because I'm sure that's a wonder.
[04:13:49] <LeftWing> I wonder what 3S used to stand for
[04:14:53] <LeftWing> (S for ... System?)
[04:15:49] <richlowe> stdio
[04:16:01] <richlowe> maybe?
[04:16:15] <richlowe> standard library?
[04:16:18] <richlowe> depending what was in there
[04:16:34] <richlowe> stdio!
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[07:43:04] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 10452 ZoL: merge in large dnode feature fixes -- Fabian Grünbichler <f.gruenbichler at proxmox dot com>
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[08:16:41] <alanc> LeftWing: dtrace(8)
[08:17:02] <LeftWing> alanc: So is the effective order... 1, 8, 1B, 1S, ... ?
[08:17:12] <alanc> MANSECTS=1,8,8s,1s,1as,1t,2,3c,3,3audit,3dax,3malloc,3ldap,3sunmath,3nisdb,3resolv,3rpc,3sandbox,3sip,3proc,3c_db,3elf,3kvm,3kstat,3kstat2,3m,3mp,3mvec,3pam,3tsol,3cmi,3contract,3cpc,3sec,3cfgadm,3crypt,3devid,3devinfo,3dtrace,3lib,3head,3ima,3nvpair,4,4d,4erl,4fs,4i,4ipp,4m,4openssl,4p,9,9e,9f,9p,9s,5,7,3gen,3exacct,3stmf,3iscsit,3sysevent,3sysobj,3uuid,3reparse,3dmi,3volmgt,3mail,3layout,3ext,3fm,3fstyp,3gss,3picl,3picltree,3pool,3project,3perl,3lgrp,3sasl
[08:17:12] <alanc> ,3scf,3srpt,3sstore,3hbaapi,3mpapi,3fcoe,1c,3curses,3xcurses,3dlpi,3dns_sd,6,3tiff,3fontconfig,3tcl,3tk,3zonestat,3c++,3cc4,3f,3p,3pi,3rtc,1erl,1oldap,3commputil,3libmemcached,3oldap,3pcap,3tecla,3erl,5erl,1openssl,3openssl,7oldap,7openssl,6erl,8oldap,3x11,3xres,3xau,3xaw,3xcomposite,3xcursor,3xevie,3xext,3xi,3xinerama,3xmu,3xp,3xrandr,3xss,3xt,3xtst,3xv,3xxf86misc,3xxf86vm,3rad,Cg,CgFX,l,n
[08:17:20] <LeftWing> Ha, you ship man.cf?!
[08:17:41] <alanc> yes
[08:18:08] <alanc> (we lost 1b with the /usr/ucb EOF)
[08:19:27] <LeftWing> I don't see 2D in the list
[08:19:47] <LeftWing> Does that get covered because it's a subsection of 2, and 2 is in the list?
[08:19:55] <alanc> oops, guess I forgot to add it when I created the (2d) man pages
[08:20:11] <alanc> but then we didn't ship any 2d man pages until 11.4.7
[08:20:30] <LeftWing> Our MANSECTS has to be exhaustive right now, or you don't get to see the ones missing
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[08:20:51] <LeftWing> (We have a process that generates a complete one to ship in SmartOS)
[08:21:38] <LeftWing> Thank you, though, that's very helpful.
[08:22:06] <LeftWing> alanc: I'm putting together... https://github.com/illumos/ipd/blob/master/ipd/0004/README.md
[08:23:11] <alanc> at least man -l shows the 2d man pages without them having to be in MANSECTS, but right now there's no uniquely named pages there, so you need -s 2d or the .2d suffix to read them
[08:23:34] <LeftWing> Ah, yes, using -s would get you there
[08:24:48] <alanc> oh wait, I'm wrong - "man dax" brings up the dax.2d man page, I just didn't realize it since it's a .so to dax_dtrace(3DAX)
[08:24:58] <alanc> https://pastebin.com/r89dxj87
[08:25:30] <alanc> similarly perl(2d) -> perldtrace(1)
[08:25:43] <alanc> we had planned more before the man page writers got laid off
[08:26:00] <LeftWing> I can see how that would put a damper on things.
[08:26:15] <LeftWing> Nice, I didn't know about "man -l"
[08:27:29] <alanc> our man command changes included searching the subsections too as you describe
[08:27:51] <LeftWing> Yes, the blog post was quite thorough in its treatment
[08:28:11] <alanc> I may have copied liberally from my ARC case for the blog 8-)
[08:28:19] <LeftWing> :D
[08:28:29] <alanc> if you can't copy from yourself, who can you copy from?
[08:28:34] <LeftWing> True fact.
[08:31:38] <alanc> looks like I left out that we only look for hierarchical names when there's a .man-subdirs - so we have /usr/share/man/man8s/.man-subdirs to enable the SMF hierarchy (/usr/share/man/man8s/application/x11/x11-server.8s for instance can be found as "man x11-server" or "man application/x11/x11-server" kinda like the svc* command arguments)
[08:33:44] <LeftWing> The hierarchical names stuff I only discovered (somewhat aghast) when I looked at man(1)
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[08:46:51] <alanc> have fun - it's time for sleep here
[08:47:29] <LeftWing> Me too. Thanks again!
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[11:32:17] <tsoome> jlevon: https://paste.ec/paste/EUwUS3Mv#5B70LLpVXPvUw35Tjc75HLsxYIFNo+N70vFA1moRFAz
[11:56:55] <andyf> tsoome, what's spin? (I should probably know...)
[11:59:17] <tsoome> |/-\- etc
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[12:38:06] <tsoome> basically, you can call twiddle() in code at certain points, or you can set console in script to spin or null console if you want to hide the output.
[12:38:30] <andyf> I see, thanks :)
[12:40:24] <tsoome> and i should stop sidetracking and get on with installboot…
[12:49:38] <jlevon> tsoome: hmm smatch does not do well with current boot bits
[12:50:41] <tsoome> probably. I have also backlog from gcc -Wextras
[12:50:42] <jlevon> I think maybe your makefile re-work actually exposed a lot of these files to the shadow for the first time?
[12:51:15] <tsoome> quite likely
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[13:03:42] <tsoome> hm, it could be worse:)
[13:03:56] * tsoome is looking on those warnings
[13:04:40] <tsoome> good thing is, for better part the one fix will count for 2 warnings:)
[13:06:08] <tsoome> ou, it can not properly parse .S files?
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[15:30:48] <clapont> hi everyone!
[15:32:08] <jlevon> tsoome: no, it shouldn't even be reaching smatch :/
[15:33:15] <tsoome> cw bug.)
[15:33:40] <tsoome> ok, time to run:)
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[15:55:31] <andyf> richlowe - can https://www.illumos.org/issues/863 be closed now?
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[19:40:40] <richlowe> andyf: done
[19:40:49] <richlowe> though smatch is similarly not-really-fatal :\
[19:41:38] <richlowe> andyf: also were you unsure, or can you not close bugs? :)
[19:41:43] <richlowe> 'cos if you can't, we should fix that
[19:41:52] <jlevon> what do you mean? smatch noise causes a nightly to report failure
[19:42:31] <richlowe> jlevon: I guess we talked about this before
[19:42:37] <jlevon> uh maybe
[19:42:42] <richlowe> jlevon: it'd be convenient (at times) for it to actually fail the build
[19:43:37] <richlowe> jlevon: also, while you're here. if I wanted to add things to smatch's knowledge of what functions do, do I need to sync up with you?
[19:44:08] <richlowe> I notice we don't know [uk]mem_ allocators and such.
[19:45:58] <richlowe> though what I was actually experimenting in adding was libld's, because my priorities suck
[19:47:43] <jlevon> oh right, so I don't really know what happened to --fatal-checks
[19:48:00] <jlevon> one mo
[19:48:04] <richlowe> it seems if you're trying to enable smatch by default, me making it fail more is perhaps counter-productive
[19:49:33] <jlevon> soo looks like I could probably add that option later.
[19:49:56] <jlevon> it is unlikely to catch every single output that smatch makes though. the implementation there still isn't regularized enough.
[19:50:07] <richlowe> I noticed
[19:50:08] <jlevon> as to the other matter
[19:50:10] <richlowe> (in adding things)
[19:50:32] <jlevon> I guess it depends on how bad things become.
[19:50:40] <richlowe> ok.
[19:50:46] <jlevon> I *would* like to have a baseline that means we can turn it on by default.
[19:50:53] <richlowe> well, with sgs/ I'm fixing it to see how tings look, so that seems fine
[19:50:58] <jlevon> yeah
[19:51:03] <richlowe> but I was presuming teaching it about other allocators would perhaps be noisy
[19:51:19] <jlevon> quite probably. it's something I want to go back to for the kernel for sure
[19:51:54] <jlevon> if you're going to teach and fix at the same time for libld or whatever, that's great.
[19:52:40] <richlowe> well, it's somewhat of an experiment.
[19:52:43] <richlowe> because I sort of dread testing it :)
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[19:57:38] <jlevon> heh ok
[20:21:36] <andyf> richlowe: yes I can close bugs, i just wasn’t sure about that one.
[20:22:17] <andyf> You might have wanted to carry it forwards for smatch:)
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   March 4, 2019  
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