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   February 26, 2018  
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[00:49:40] <LeftWing> haha
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[01:44:25] <Smithx10> LeftWing: I was kinda joking :P Wondering when joyent will pick rust :P
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[02:04:50] <LeftWing> Smithx10: I've been writing some C the last couple of weeks. It's been amazingly refreshing.
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[02:23:20] <bdha> The perl and Go invasions have already begun. An alliance of desperation, it's true...
[02:24:35] <LeftWing> There is, after all, literally no accounting for taste!
[02:25:04] <bdha> After however many years if node, I imagine everything tastes like ashes anyway.
[02:25:19] * bdha pokes the bear!
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[02:28:21] <LeftWing> There is no bear, just a single tear, shed over and over, falling into a shapeless yawning maw only to be shed again.
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[02:36:27] <bdha> Dang. We've some something terribly wrong as technologists if we've ended up in a poem by a 13 year old suburban goth kid.
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[02:37:54] <LeftWing> :D
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[02:39:19] <LeftWing> Just wait until the Perl folks form a coalition with the CHICKEN SCHEME people.
[02:45:25] <jbk> then our code will be truly beyond scrutiny..
[02:45:29] <jbk> or at least inscrutable :P
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[08:55:55] <Gibheer_> would it be possible to to build a kernel module interface to load kernel abstractions on zone configuration? that way, one could build kernel modules for different kernel abstractions, like linux 4.16, freebsd 11, openbsd 6.2 and have a definitive zone environment. would that be possible?
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[11:09:50] <bahamat> Gibheer_: It's my understanding that doing another true unix would much more difficult than linux, but in theory yes, it's possible.
[11:11:13] <Gibheer_> bahamat: why would it be more difficult?
[11:12:11] <bahamat> Because with most unix systems the public interface is libc, and the kernel syscall table is a private interface between the kernel itself and libc.
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[11:12:50] <bahamat> And that the translation layer could only be version specific (maybe even build specific)
[11:13:14] <bahamat> e.g., the freebsd interface would be exactly freebsd 11.0, and not compatible with 11.1
[11:13:20] <Gibheer_> oh, right
[11:13:48] <Gibheer_> yeah, thats why I was thinking of bundling the zone with a kernel module, which would abstract the kernel interface for that specific version
[11:14:19] <Gibheer_> so when you would want a freebsd 11.0, the zone would load the kernel module for freebsd 11.0 to provide the interface to libc
[11:14:33] <Gibheer_> no idea how cruel to maintain that would be
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[11:16:29] <bahamat> What I mean is, as far as I understand it, all of the work necssary to do it once needs to be done from scratch for every version you want to support.
[11:16:51] <bahamat> e.g., it took a year to do freebsd 11.0? It'll take a year to do 11.1, or even 11.0.1
[11:17:03] <Gibheer_> meh, that would be a huge hassle
[11:17:10] <bahamat> Exactly.
[11:19:56] <Gibheer_> thank you. too bad that it isn't easier :(
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[16:34:02] <tribblexi> hi guys.. quick question and I would very much appreciate your input: I am trying to install tribblix for learning purposes on my laptop, which has an SSD drive. I tried "./live_install.sh -B c1t0d0 kitchen-sink", but it complains that 'c1t0d0' doe snot exist. it's like it doesn't recognize the SSD. is that possible , or am I missing something?
[16:35:47] <denk> hehe, tsoome, once again about devices :)
[16:36:10] <ptribble> Is that the correct drive? It's the most likely, but does 'iostat -En' or 'diskinfo' see?
[16:37:03] <tribblexi> based on your webpage, I tried 'format', which only detected the sd-rom drive!
[16:37:18] <tribblexi> cd-rom*
[16:37:53] <tribblexi> I will try the commands you suggested
[16:38:41] <ptribble> They should see the same as format, but it's worth checking.
[16:38:50] <tribblexi> but it "should" detect any drive, inclusing an SSD, correct?
[16:39:09] <ptribble> So what sort of laptop is this?
[16:39:28] <tribblexi> some Dell optiplex
[16:40:04] <ptribble> My experience with laptops is that I usually see the hard drive, but it can't find the CD or the network
[16:40:30] <tribblexi> other OSs have no problem detecting it, including OpenSolaris and OpenIndiana
[16:41:32] <tribblexi> format only detects one drive with 'NO' type!
[16:42:36] <tribblexi> is there a way I can display all drives on the system during install?
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[16:43:22] <andyf> As ptribble said, `diskinfo` or `iostat -En` are the best bet
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[16:44:35] <tribblexi> thank you guys for your help. I really appreciate it. I really admire what you have achieved, Peter ;-)
[16:45:22] <ptribble> Tribblix doesn't include every single driver, so I'm willing to bet your system is using one that I've mistakenly missed on the CD
[16:47:12] <tribblexi> I am determined to get it up and running. Will try on other laptops
[16:47:15] <igork> diskinfo can hide removable devices like cd
[16:47:55] <tsoome> format does not show removable disks like usb sticks, format -e does show them
[16:47:57] <igork> but it depend on hw
[16:48:16] <tribblexi> UFS support on Tribblix (SunOS) is nothing short of wonderful, IMO
[16:48:19] <ptribble> If you can work out which driver is in use when you're running OpenIndiana then I can fix the Tribblix install media
[16:48:59] <tribblexi> will do and update you, Peter.
[16:49:02] <igork> andyf: hey. about kpti - what are commits you used for your builds?
[16:49:32] <igork> andyf: i tried to port 2 commits from kpti-quash branch - but i have panic on boot
[16:49:36] <andyf> igork - the top 6 here https://github.com/omniosorg/illumos-omnios/commits/kpti
[16:49:57] <igork> 6 ?
[16:50:04] <igork> https://bitbucket.org/dilos/dilos-illumos/commits/all
[16:50:21] <igork> i have cherry-picked 2 updates
[16:50:25] <andyf> yes, there are other commits needed from Joyent.. OS-3678, OS-6565 etc.
[16:50:44] <jlevon> igork: what is the panic
[16:50:46] <igork> v
[16:50:47] <igork> https://github.com/rmustacc/illumos-gate/commits/kpti-squash
[16:51:03] <igork> jlevon: i'll try reproduce it again on vm first
[16:51:24] <igork> because it was on real supermicro box with 256gb ram
[16:51:37] <igork> and no dump
[16:51:44] <igork> need setup a serial console
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[16:52:11] <jlevon> do you remember anything about it?
[16:52:35] <igork> it as about cmntrap
[16:52:42] <igork> or something like that
[16:52:50] <igork> i'll have more info soon
[16:53:03] <igork> big host is busy now and i need vm setup
[16:53:10] <igork> and try reproduce it again
[16:53:35] <igork> jlevon: will you around to 30min ?
[16:53:43] <andyf> Try pulling in those other commits too - otherwise the KPTI/PCID changes aren't applying to the same starting point
[16:53:46] <jlevon> yes
[17:02:39] <igork> jlevon: https://paste.dilos.org/?33341fb580e83c5a#cHrE+xtd6YC+cMz9MX3lXa0ua2LOacZ72xIRMHvWkMM=
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[17:03:28] <igork> jlevon: maybe i have missmerge at: https://bitbucket.org/dilos/dilos-illumos/commits/all
[17:03:30] <jlevon> igork: I don't recall seeing anything like that.
[17:03:32] <igork> 2 latest commits
[17:03:43] <jlevon> igork: could you please try reproducing on illumos master
[17:04:08] <igork> jlevon: i can't - i'm using dilos - it has a lot of updates from illumos-joyent
[17:05:52] <jlevon> I have no idea what you did or didn't have to merge then. I don't recall seeing a failure mode like you have here.
[17:05:59] <igork> i just did cherry-pick of 2 commits from https://github.com/rmustacc/illumos-gate/commits/kpti-squash
[17:06:30] <igork> have you checked this branch with smartos build/image?
[17:07:11] <jlevon> me personally? no. But I'm sure alex did.
[17:07:12] <igork> or it was just squash of git updates from another branch?
[17:07:18] <jlevon> yes
[17:07:58] <igork> i'm interested in final image - if it is available - based on this branch
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[17:14:12] <rmustacc> igork: SmartOS images were made and sent out on the smartos mailing list by Alex.
[17:14:51] <igork> i'm not on smartos mail list, is it possible forward it to illumos-dev ?
[17:15:17] <rmustacc> I'll talk to andyf and a few other folks to get OI images made and then consolidate that in one mail.
[17:15:34] <igork> thanks
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[17:34:05] <tribblexi> I read somwhere that Zones 'require' ZFS. is that the case? (I mean, FreeeBSD has bhyve and jailsand they run under UFS)
[17:35:02] <igork> Zones 'require' ZFS if you are using zfs snapshots
[17:35:27] <igork> tribblexi - take a look how smartos is working on lx zones - without zfs zbe
[17:36:01] <igork> just use single dataset = local fs with lofs
[17:36:38] <tribblexi> so, only if snapshots are used, ZFS is necessary? no reason why Zones cannot run under UFS. Good to know
[17:36:44] <ptribble> It's not a requirement, but many of the builtin tools are written in such a way that they'll only work with ZFS
[17:37:09] <igork> i'm not pretend on UFS for zones, sorry :) just idea
[17:37:45] <andyf> I'm pretty sure that you'd need to give the zone a different brand name, otherwise things like libbe would try and manage boot environments within it, which requires ZFS
[17:38:27] <igork> ipkg brandz = ksh scripting
[17:38:52] <igork> and can be updated to another brandz name
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[17:39:24] <igork> i mean - create another zone brandz with scripting only with another scenarios
[17:41:09] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 9197 tools/quick scripts broken after 8685 -- Gordon Ross <gwr at nexenta dot com>
[17:46:34] <ptribble> Just a quick look through the Tribblix zone installers and it shouldn't be that hard to replace the 'zfs create' for the zone root with a mkdir if you wanted to build zones atop a different fs
[17:47:38] <tribblexi> ptribble: thank you
[17:49:20] <ptribble> But there may be other assumptions hidden elsewhere
[17:50:01] <ptribble> I suspect the interesting case would be nfs for shared zone storage rather than ufs
[17:50:09] <tribblexi> ptribble: unfortunate coupling between Zones and ZFS, IMO
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[17:56:14] <tribblexi> maybe HAMMER2 will, one day, replace the heavyweight ZFS! ;-)
[17:57:15] <igork> ptribble: i'm not nfs can be interested - because it can be unavailable :)
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[18:02:14] <igork> jlevon: i just have new build based on https://github.com/rmustacc/illumos-gate/commits/kpti-dev - i have no crashes
[18:04:33] <igork> https://paste.dilos.org/?5fed09dbe9009fc6#32AdZaAQs2Zed90AxoJ26EzyO6C1EX60W0qn0+Tv/KA=
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[18:18:20] <igork> https://apt2.dilos.org/dilos/isos/dilos-core-18-02-26_20-13-2.0.1.13-20180226-2+kpti-DEBUG.iso
[18:19:03] <igork> if someone interested to test iso with integrated kpti - no crashes with new updates based on https://github.com/rmustacc/illumos-gate/commits/kpti-dev
[18:19:26] <rmustacc> igork: It'd really help if everyone is using the same thing, which isn't that.
[18:19:47] <igork> rmustaccL what do you mean?
[18:20:11] <igork> is it not correct branch ?
[18:20:26] <igork> or what is bad ?
[18:20:38] <rmustacc> igork: As Alex mentioned the other day, everything we've built and sent out with the webrev, etc. is based on the kpti-squash branch.
[18:20:41] <rmustacc> https://github.com/rmustacc/illumos-gate/tree/kpti-squash
[18:20:57] <rmustacc> Which is what we generated the webrev, etc. from that we sent to illumos-developer.
[18:21:00] <igork> but it is crashed to me
[18:21:10] <rmustacc> If it crashed, then we need to figure out why.
[18:21:30] <rmustacc> Because that's what we're reviewing.
[18:21:33] <rmustacc> That's what other folks are testing.
[18:21:56] <igork> i'm interested in final version and tried identify it - but i have no found answer - only point to this kpti-dev branch
[18:21:56] <rmustacc> But I'd probably recommend you wait and try the actual images from other distros to rule out any of your own merge issues.
[18:22:18] <rmustacc> Well you identified incorrectly because we don't want to waste our limited time.
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[18:23:06] <igork> also - your https://github.com/rmustacc/illumos-gate/tree/kpti-squash - based on smartos - right?
[18:23:26] <igork> how far smartos from illumos?
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[19:02:52] <LeftWing> I think you're probably going to have to do your own homework, igork.
[19:03:13] <LeftWing> Alex is out at the moment, and the rest of us are pretty busy.
[19:03:48] <igork> LeftWing: no worry :) i do a lot of home works :)
[19:03:58] <igork> and - thanks for info
[19:05:11] <jlevon> igork: FYI I just double checked that branch and don't see an issue. it seems likely something in your merge.
[19:06:16] <igork> jlevon: probably, and i have one working version and can check later another branch with ut
[19:06:20] <igork> it
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[20:24:18] <igork> rmustacc, LeftWing, jlevon: could you please point me email to smartos maillist with kpti testing image - is it have web version?
[20:25:13] <jlevon_> uh can't you look it up yourself?
[20:25:29] <igork> google have no found it
[20:25:36] <igork> i tried
[20:25:58] <jlevon_> I literally just found it in less than 30 seconds.
[20:26:24] <igork> https://www.mail-archive.com/smartos-discuss at lists dot smartos.org/msg05667.html
[20:26:28] <igork> i have found only this one
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[21:33:12] <sjorge> QQ related to IPS
[21:33:32] <sjorge> (In related to some salt bits)
[21:33:46] <sjorge> Is there a way to check for packages with unpatched CVE's?
[21:34:04] <sjorge> Sort of like pkgsrc-audit I supose
[21:38:30] <richlowe> No
[21:38:36] <richlowe> though that'd be really nice.
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[21:40:20] <sjorge> OK, thanks. I though so but always good to check.
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[22:38:23] <alanc> I suppose it's mostly a matter of metadata - adding the CPE name & list of fixed CVE ids to each package, then checking those against NVD to see if there's any CVE's for that CPE that aren't listed in the package
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[22:39:02] <alanc> there is at least a definition for fixed-CVE metadata for IPS, though I don't know of any illumos distro using it
[22:40:28] <alanc> https://blogs.oracle.com/solaris/cve-metadata-in-solaris-ips-packages-for-improved-compliance-reporting-v2
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   February 26, 2018  
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