January 31, 2018 
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January 31, 2018 [00:02:52] *** jollyd <jollyd!~alarcher@188.113.95.225> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[00:24:18] *** xzi11a <xzi11a!~robert@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[00:26:09] *** pk12 <pk12!~pk12@199.241.146.163> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[00:28:08] <igork> tsoome: this commit fixed my sparc build issue:[00:28:08] <igork> https://bitbucket.org/dilos/dilos-illumos/commits/4849c760f5efac15e9bc6bf119dde2ce5e0a573c[00:28:55] <igork> but i'll have more info tomorrow - try to check it again in clean env[00:29:10] *** pk12 <pk12!~pk12@199.241.146.163> has joined #illumos[00:29:53] *** Toasterson <Toasterson!~toast@2a02:aa10:e280:b880:e3d5:f722:2d0a:1d1a> has joined #illumos[00:32:38] <alanc> richlowe: yes, 6248065 was where that link came from[00:33:05] <alanc> it also has the word of tpm in[00:34:24] <alanc> https://pastebin.ca/3966075[00:39:02] <richlowe> alanc: thanks.[00:42:03] *** jhendricks <jhendricks!~jhendrick@208.184.5.170> has joined #illumos[00:43:40] <alanc> clearly tpm's wish was my command[00:43:40] *** jhendricks <jhendricks!~jhendrick@208.184.5.170> has left #illumos[00:44:33] <alanc> if I recall, isaexec performance also killed some silly benchmark like kenbus or unixbench[00:44:50] <richlowe> probably both[00:46:08] *** elevated_ <elevated_!~elevated@192.96.203.69> has joined #illumos[00:46:25] <richlowe> when I get my current couple of small things out of the way, the next set of boredom-fillers is 64bit in /bin where it actually matters.[00:46:35] *** elevated <elevated!~elevated@185.161.200.11> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[00:46:47] <richlowe> all the same suffering, but on a delay.[00:46:55] <alanc> made it to 90% converted to LP64 for 11.4 beta! 8-)[00:47:09] <richlowe> you should keep me up-to-date on how I'll be suffering in 2022.[00:47:13] <alanc> no one is foolhardy enough to tackle UFS though[00:47:15] *** elevated_ is now known as elevated[00:47:36] <alanc> or worse, SVM[00:48:43] <alanc> oh, when you get to things like cat, you'll be suffering from the lack of quick-and-dirty macros in <stdio.h> for LP64 builds[00:49:26] <alanc> do you want fast stdio or do you want opaque stdio structures?[00:49:51] <rmustacc> Don't worry, some folks hardcode your opaque bits anyways![00:50:40] <alanc> our solution involved programmers in the Netherlands & the local recreational substances[00:51:28] <alanc> well, a programmer, though we keep trying to prove casper is really a set of triplets pretending to be just one[00:59:46] *** jwk404 <jwk404!~jwk404@c-73-95-226-215.hsd1.co.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[00:59:49] *** natkin <natkin!~textual@104-8-25-179.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[01:01:30] *** Toasterson <Toasterson!~toast@2a02:aa10:e280:b880:e3d5:f722:2d0a:1d1a> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[01:02:05] <richlowe> pretty much every comment in cat.c raises questions.[01:06:29] <jbk> so it's a kindred spirit of mac :P[01:59:48] *** natkin <natkin!~textual@104-8-25-179.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net> has joined #illumos[02:01:22] *** alanc <alanc!~alanc@hqdc-proxy-mwg015-o.oracle.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[02:01:40] *** alanc <alanc!~alanc@hqdc-proxy-mwg015-o.oracle.com> has joined #illumos[02:19:54] *** Qatz <Qatz!~DB@2601:187:8400:5::427> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[02:20:00] *** ed209 <ed209!~ed209@165.225.128.67> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[02:20:06] *** ed209 <ed209!~ed209@165.225.128.67> has joined #illumos[02:27:55] *** Qatz <Qatz!~DB@2601:187:8400:5::427> has joined #illumos[02:28:33] *** pk12 <pk12!~pk12@199.241.146.163> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[02:40:27] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@229-23-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[02:55:17] *** hotbox <hotbox!~hotbox@2001:41d0:fe8f:b70a:20d:b9ff:fe47:7c05> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[02:58:52] *** pk12 <pk12!~pk12@199.241.146.163> has joined #illumos[02:58:53] *** v_a_b <v_a_b!~volker@p57A27CAF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #illumos[03:00:57] *** v_a_b1 <v_a_b1!~volker@p57A27A48.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[03:14:57] *** pk12 <pk12!~pk12@199.241.146.163> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[03:16:04] *** pk12 <pk12!~pk12@199.241.146.163> has joined #illumos[03:18:51] *** bahamat <bahamat!~bahamat@2001:470:f0f4:a0a:535:35d6:3e0b:79f3> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[03:23:35] *** hotaronohanako <hotaronohanako!~user@unaffiliated/hotaronohanako> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[03:24:11] *** hotaronohanako <hotaronohanako!~user@unaffiliated/hotaronohanako> has joined #illumos[03:25:26] *** englishm_work <englishm_work!uid217629@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fyqwknnmoopymssw> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[04:06:14] *** natkin <natkin!~textual@104-8-25-179.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[04:06:36] *** mutin-s <mutin-s!~s-mutin@85.234.114.134> has joined #illumos[04:08:50] *** natkin <natkin!~textual@104-8-25-179.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net> has joined #illumos[04:09:53] *** s-mutin <s-mutin!~s-mutin@85.234.114.134> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[04:10:20] *** hotaronohanako <hotaronohanako!~user@unaffiliated/hotaronohanako> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[04:17:36] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@229-23-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has joined #illumos[04:22:56] *** slumos <slumos!slumos@gateway/shell/firrre/x-crsaydhbyfphmlpg> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[04:23:16] *** slumos <slumos!slumos@gateway/shell/firrre/x-glhcswwrhrxpzojk> has joined #illumos[04:23:18] *** tomoyat1 <tomoyat1!~tomoyat1@tomoyat1.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[04:24:08] *** yurip <yurip!~yuri@178.34.121.10> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[04:24:19] *** tomoyat1 <tomoyat1!~tomoyat1@tomoyat1.com> has joined #illumos[04:37:02] <leoric> yurip: Are you seriously want to change path, where kernel looks for modules? This will influence out-of-gate modules...[04:46:18] *** jcea <jcea!~Thunderbi@2001:41d0:1:8a82:7670:6e00:7670:6e00> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[05:13:19] *** xzi11a <xzi11a!~robert@pool-71-244-148-68.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net> has joined #illumos[05:35:51] *** kev009 <kev009!~kev009@2001:579:8084:21:e005:1380:4eea:3f3f> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[05:40:58] *** natkin <natkin!~textual@104-8-25-179.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[05:42:38] *** _Tenchi_ <_Tenchi_!~phil@207-255-68-080-dhcp.aoo.pa.atlanticbb.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)[05:44:09] *** _Tenchi_ <_Tenchi_!~phil@207-255-68-080-dhcp.aoo.pa.atlanticbb.net> has joined #illumos[05:45:04] *** kev009 <kev009!~kev009@tempe0.bbox.io> has joined #illumos[05:48:00] *** Bryson <Bryson!~anonymous@ip68-108-89-198.lv.lv.cox.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Bryson)[05:54:18] *** xzi11a <xzi11a!~robert@pool-71-244-148-68.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[06:13:35] *** zerick_ <zerick_!~zerick@irc.quassel.zerick.io> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[06:15:42] *** zerick <zerick!~zerick@irc.quassel.zerick.io> has joined #illumos[06:16:46] *** p7mo_ <p7mo_!~pmo@ricasa01.informatik.uni-bremen.de> has joined #illumos[06:17:10] *** p7mo <p7mo!~pmo@ricasa01.informatik.uni-bremen.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[06:23:22] <leoric> tsoome: are you fine with http://buildzone.oi-build.r61.net/webrev-9015-1/ ?[06:38:06] *** mnowak_ <mnowak_!~mnowak_@94.142.238.232> has joined #illumos[06:55:33] *** yurip <yurip!~yuri@178.34.121.10> has joined #illumos[07:17:41] <tsoome> yess, you did add gss, that was something I had to remind you:D +1[07:22:49] <yurip> who did add what[07:23:25] <tsoome> that one http://buildzone.oi-build.r61.net/webrev-9015-1/[07:25:54] <yurip> got it[07:34:40] *** alhazred <alhazred!~Alex@dsl-lprbng11-54f889-133.dhcp.inet.fi> has joined #illumos[07:51:57] *** neuroserve <neuroserve!~toens@195.71.113.124> has joined #illumos[08:02:03] *** paracusia <paracusia!~ast@ip-178-203-186-4.hsi10.unitymediagroup.de> has joined #illumos[08:03:20] *** leoric <leoric!~leoric@176.212.32.36> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[08:09:06] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@13-113-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Quit: tsoome)[08:17:25] *** mnowak_ <mnowak_!~mnowak_@94.142.238.232> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[08:24:42] <igork> tsoome: https://bitbucket.org/dilos/dilos-illumos/commits/4849c760f5efac15e9bc6bf119dde2ce5e0a573c[08:24:49] <igork> tsoome: it fixed sparc build[08:25:05] <igork> just FYI[08:28:46] <yurip> igork: now you need to integrate it[08:31:38] <igork> yurip: it was my help to tsoome because he was busy/lazy to test it on sparc :)[08:36:16] <yurip> I'm always amused by your "lazy" statements :D[08:43:58] *** Toasterson <Toasterson!~toast@98.4.150.83.dyn.dsl.as8758.net> has joined #illumos[08:45:24] *** paracusia <paracusia!~ast@ip-178-203-186-4.hsi10.unitymediagroup.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[08:47:34] <igork> :)[08:48:14] <igork> sorry, i have no enough time now for full RTI process and can just notify about issues[08:48:32] <igork> and it was not my activity about 64bits updates :)[08:49:13] *** phyre <phyre!~phyre___@188.208.100.249> has joined #illumos[08:50:15] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@13-113-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee> has joined #illumos[08:56:51] <yurip> others have even less time to fix the arch they don't even use[08:57:45] <igork> yurip: the same thing about tests svr4[08:57:58] <igork> what i was asking about[09:01:30] <alp_> well, I understand that speaking is cheap, but perhaps we can do what openzfs does - provide build bots for building PRs? So that they are at least built at both architectures?[09:02:08] <igork> alp_: if you can fix original illumos build on sparc :)[09:02:33] <alp_> or better not pretend that we support it ? ;)[09:02:35] <igork> i'm not using it - i have dilos and it fixed with builds[09:03:14] <igork> alp_: the same case for svr4 packaging[09:03:24] <igork> i'm not using it[09:03:30] <igork> why i need test it[09:04:12] *** hotbox <hotbox!~hotbox@2001:41d0:fe8f:b70a:20d:b9ff:fe47:7c05> has joined #illumos[09:04:29] <yurip> who says you need to do anything at all?[09:04:48] <igork> yurip: ask LeftWing :)[09:05:13] <igork> and i think this thread in mail archive[09:05:51] <igork> when i tried RTI some changes related to dilos needs[09:06:16] <yurip> then they are not applicable to illumos-gate and can stay in dilos[09:06:47] <igork> again and again - how svr4 applicable to illumos?[09:07:00] <tsoome> the issue is that many things in gate are meaningless for gate, and only have meaning for some systems[09:07:21] <igork> and why nexenta & omnios can integrate needed changes to illumos and i'm not for dilos?[09:07:55] <igork> if they are not impact others[09:09:18] <tsoome> that really depends on change.[09:09:48] <igork> tsoome: again ? ;)[09:09:59] <igork> are you remember update for grub ?[09:10:08] <igork> for GNU ld 64bit[09:10:14] <tsoome> the actual problem with gate is that gate is not an OS, so you can not verify “pure” gate. and most things you try to integrate, are opposed by some people.[09:10:15] <igork> how it impacts others/[09:10:56] <tsoome> or just ignored.[09:11:04] <igork> actually problem - it is not support and understand others needs[09:11:13] <igork> it's a pity, but it is true[09:11:42] <tsoome> the same applies to you;)[09:11:55] *** ptribble <ptribble!~ptribble@cpc92716-cmbg20-2-0-cust138.5-4.cable.virginm.net> has joined #illumos[09:12:05] <tsoome> you are complaining about svr4 packaging, but tribblix is using it:D[09:12:45] <tsoome> so it is not black and white at all:)[09:12:47] <igork> can i integrate dpkg + apt to illusmo tree ? :)[09:12:52] <igork> i'm using it on dilos :)[09:13:01] <tsoome> hell no:P[09:13:02] <igork> and dpkg zones[09:13:21] *** Nerakhon_ <Nerakhon_!~janpaul@a88-221-208-10.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com> has joined #illumos[09:13:46] <alp_> will I need apt to build illumos gate after this? ;)[09:14:01] <arekinath> more likely to get chunks of svr4 removed altogether than to get apt in there I reckon[09:14:01] <igork> nope :)[09:14:08] <igork> alp_: ^^^ :)[09:14:14] <tsoome> arekinath: +1[09:14:18] *** Nerakhon <Nerakhon!~janpaul@213.86.107.165> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[09:14:23] <igork> and you no need svr4 for builds too[09:14:54] <igork> arekinath: i want remove svr4 too - or move to userland build :)[09:15:04] <igork> no need spend a time to fix it[09:15:09] <igork> with illumos tree[09:15:16] <yurip> sadly, there's no "userland build"[09:15:23] <arekinath> the tyrrany of illumos is definitely that we have a lot of very different looking distros that all care about different chunks of it[09:15:40] <arekinath> it's not a completely bad thing, though it's kinda frustrating sometimes[09:16:36] <arekinath> it's good to be answerable to people with different interests I think, though, so we find more versatile solutions for things / don't just solve only our own problem and forget someone else[09:17:45] <igork> arekinath: illumos tree should be minimal[09:17:48] <alp_> igork: as long as you create oi-userland PR with svr4 component, I'm fine with removing svr4 tools from the gate ;)[09:17:51] <tsoome> our real problem is that we do try to solve everyones problems at once, and that will put too much burden on developers[09:18:15] <arekinath> yeah.. some of that is good though I think. you can definitely have too much of it.[09:18:33] <tsoome> if sparc does not build, it is not problem for me, it is problem for people who want sparc builds. and so on.[09:19:36] <arekinath> that should be an automated thing. we can test that platforms build.[09:19:43] <arekinath> we have the technology :P[09:19:50] <arekinath> someone just has to do it[09:19:51] *** Nerakhon_ <Nerakhon_!~janpaul@a88-221-208-10.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[09:19:51] <arekinath> haha[09:19:57] <arekinath> in their copious free time[09:20:00] <yurip> ;)[09:20:30] <yurip> ln igork someone[09:20:30] *** Nerakhon <Nerakhon!~janpaul@62.96.222.150> has joined #illumos[09:21:56] <arekinath> if the ARM port gets off the ground at some point it'll have the same problem[09:22:00] <tsoome> for simple example - I can not push unicode updates because the sparc keyboard driver will break the build. that driver is for old type3 etc keyboards - the hardware we can not even use, because those keyboards have no connectors in new systems…[09:22:32] <tsoome> totally useless code is blocking development and thats it…[09:23:11] <yurip> tsoome: just remove the driver?[09:23:19] <arekinath> can we just drop it? haha[09:23:20] <tsoome> i did post the RTI;)[09:23:30] <yurip> aaaaand?[09:23:43] <tsoome> its still there;)[09:23:52] <yurip> just ping them until someone responds[09:24:07] <arekinath> I feel like we've had a big problem with advocate workload lately[09:24:18] <MarcelT> they are sometimes silent even you ping them many times[09:24:25] <Smithx10> tsoome: I have a type3 etc keyboard and run sparc in my garage. You can't take it from it. You cant.[09:24:54] <tsoome> Smithx10: you should connect that keyboard with that sparc first:P[09:25:15] <yurip> it will just mean there are no more updates for Smithx10 (if he isn't trolling, that is)[09:25:20] <arekinath> Smithx10: you can fix the driver then? ;)[09:25:21] <Smithx10> Can I use a *Sparc*plug?[09:25:29] <tsoome> yes[09:25:34] <Smithx10> :P[09:25:49] <Smithx10> yurip: I am in fact trolling :([09:25:49] <tsoome> and do not forget to have phone handy in case your garage will blow up:D[09:25:52] <Smithx10> Rip that shit out y0[09:26:26] <Smithx10> tsoome: Well, my phone is also type3 :([09:27:14] <tsoome> but yea, we are too much into old sun principles which were just fine for corporate development, but are only blocking community based developers[09:28:42] <arekinath> I think there's a middle ground to be had there.[09:28:50] <tsoome> yes, indeed[09:29:30] <arekinath> and it exists in specifics and communication I think more than generalisations.[09:30:10] <arekinath> like, this particular type 3 kbd thing[09:30:28] <arekinath> and maybe one day I'll get SCTP removed[09:30:34] <yurip> why?[09:30:57] *** kohju <kohju!~kohju@gw.justplayer.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[09:31:14] <yurip> seems to be pretty standard protocol[09:31:28] <arekinath> because it's full of awful bugs and has been used all of twice in the last decade[09:31:44] <arekinath> no Linux distro ships it by default, and no BSD that I know of[09:31:45] *** kohju <kohju!~kohju@gw.justplayer.com> has joined #illumos[09:31:52] *** sjorge <sjorge!~sjorge@unaffiliated/sjorge> has quit IRC (Quit: 410 Gone)[09:31:53] <arekinath> you can add it back in in userland[09:32:14] <yurip> freebsd does, for sure[09:32:27] <arekinath> on by default?[09:32:29] <yurip> not that I care about it, just wondering[09:32:33] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@229-23-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[09:32:53] <tsoome> many things in fbsd have same state as we have - just dead code.[09:33:25] *** mnowak_ <mnowak_!mnowak_@nat/suse/x-gejbhnlhnpnpunor> has joined #illumos[09:33:29] <tsoome> so the appearance does not necessarily mean it is used:)[09:33:32] <yurip> yeah: http://src.illumos.org/source/xref/freebsd-head/sys/amd64/conf/GENERIC#36[09:34:20] <yurip> are those bugs in our implementation or the protocol itself?[09:34:31] <tsoome> also just lately they have started some cleanups, to drop old drivers etc[09:34:34] <arekinath> huh. guess that explains why those CVEs were actually talked about by people in feeebsd[09:35:03] <arekinath> impl bugs as far as I know[09:35:34] <arekinath> we found like 3 of them last year or year before, but there are tonnes more... There's nobody using it, is the problem[09:35:57] <arekinath> no users, no bugs found, all gets worse over time as other stuff gets changed near it[09:37:00] <arekinath> it's also a network protocol that we're parsing off the wire. I personally view it as purely a security risk with no real gain to having it in :P[09:37:41] <tsoome> pardon my ignorance, but… what are consumers for it?[09:38:02] <yurip> arekinath: got it, thanks[09:38:03] <tsoome> end user systems like windows/osx/linux desktops?[09:38:15] <tsoome> some application layer stuff?[09:39:05] <arekinath> as far as I know, the only real world use of it is SS7, which is run over tunnels anyway[09:39:19] <arekinath> last I checked SCTP was rejected by a lot of internet routers[09:39:28] <arekinath> and it's tricky to run it across the 'net[09:40:37] <arekinath> (rejected because of a long history of remote network triggered CVEs, as I understand it)[09:41:28] <tsoome> quite understandably...[09:44:31] *** asx <asx!~asx@93-34-145-252.ip50.fastwebnet.it> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[09:44:48] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@13-113-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Quit: tsoome)[09:47:16] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@229-23-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has joined #illumos[09:47:19] *** asx <asx!~asx@93-34-145-252.ip50.fastwebnet.it> has joined #illumos[09:47:51] <arekinath> sometimes I wonder if there shouldn't be like a weekly or 2-weekly advocates sync meeting/call/whatever which is purely devoted to going through all open RTIs and checking there's somebody doing something related to them[09:48:13] <arekinath> I'm not an advocate though so idk[09:48:35] <igork> arekinath: :)[09:49:29] <igork> arekinath: your point to some meetings takes me to remember CCB calls on motorola projects :)[09:50:20] <arekinath> I hate meetings, but when the problem is getting a bunch of people on the same page about something and there's a short, well defined agenda, they can be a useful tool[09:50:21] <igork> where was a moving of issues between different sites and projects[09:51:11] <igork> arekinath: abount meetings - agreed, all depend how it organized[09:51:54] <arekinath> we should really not be leaving RTIs to rot on a regular basis[09:52:08] <arekinath> it's super demoralizing[09:52:41] <yurip> (need more advocates)[09:52:45] <arekinath> even if it means we have to normalise a "sorry not taking this at this time, please discuss more on illumos-dev" response[09:54:14] <arekinath> yurip: yeah, I feel like organising it a bit more would make it obvious how many active advocates there are and where the blind spots are in the system too[09:54:35] <igork> arekinath: i think it can be more productive if try to split it to different areas - like components - where one or too can reply with approve[09:54:46] <igork> this practice is using on xen[09:55:06] <igork> if you have changes in tools - they have list of persons for it[09:55:20] <igork> if yo have changes in another area - another list or persons[09:55:34] <igork> and you know who needs reply to your request[09:55:39] <arekinath> yeah, when we have like 50 advocates that would totes be useful[09:55:47] <arekinath> but we have like 10 maybe?[09:55:50] <igork> i'm not sure it can halp[09:56:02] <arekinath> regularly merging things anyway?[09:56:06] <igork> nope[09:56:59] <igork> for example: we have advocates not from all distributions - and they are interested in changes related to organization needs[09:57:42] <yurip> it's not about distibutions, it's about being qualified and responsible[09:57:56] <igork> yes and no[09:58:07] <arekinath> sure, but I don't think just anyone should be able to walk up and say hey I forked illumos-gate on GitHub I'm a distro now, gimme a seat on advocates kthx[09:58:16] <yurip> arekinath: +1[09:58:25] <arekinath> I think it's important for it to be a senior position in the community[09:58:33] <igork> more productive with OpenZFS - github PR and approvals[09:58:35] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@229-23-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[09:58:39] <arekinath> we just need the machinery to work, heh[09:58:57] <yurip> igork: they still have to go through the same RTI cycle[09:59:11] <yurip> doesn't matter how they are being reviewed[09:59:48] <igork> but it is more easy to look to one page instead of lost email threads[10:00:00] <yurip> use RB then[10:00:14] <yurip> same thing as openzfs PRs[10:00:22] <arekinath> well, this is why I think making us keep track of RTI status regularly will motivate us to find a solution to that problem[10:00:28] <arekinath> I'm not wedded to some particular website[10:00:29] <igork> yurip: you can cay it to advocates :) and how it can help with approvals[10:00:40] <arekinath> But whatever works for the advocates and gets the problem solved[10:00:54] <igork> arekinath: yes , it is issue - we have no status[10:01:00] <yurip> igork: what should I say? approvals on openzfs prs just mean "reviewed by" line in commit[10:01:05] <igork> was it reviewed or lost[10:01:15] <arekinath> it could be just well-defined reply templates to the emails in the RTI list for all I care[10:01:48] <arekinath> though it'd be nice if it was a little easier to filter[10:02:59] <arekinath> and I'd like whatever it is to be able to go trigger an automatic build and maybe some tests[10:04:09] <arekinath> though I know some people don't like it being *completely* automated because it lets people write drive-by patches who are never even going to try to build/test it themselves and we'll never get answers out of them later if there's a bug[10:06:19] *** jlevon <jlevon!~jlevon@88.98.93.30> has joined #illumos[10:06:24] <arekinath> whatevs[10:08:02] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@13-113-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee> has joined #illumos[10:08:21] <arekinath> I think we can all appreciate that automatic testing of kernels is pretty hard and whatever we put there will necessarily be more like a sanity check than exhaustive testing[10:08:42] <arekinath> but I do think we should have a sanity check :P[10:08:42] *** Nerakhon <Nerakhon!~janpaul@62.96.222.150> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[10:10:02] <arekinath> anyway, we should talk about this more. I might write to -dev about the idea tomorrow.[10:10:06] <arekinath> gonna go sleep though[10:11:27] <yurip> sanity check would be already a great thing[10:17:39] *** Nerakhon <Nerakhon!~janpaul@213.86.107.165> has joined #illumos[10:37:52] *** man_u <man_u!~manu@manu2.gandi.net> has joined #illumos[10:38:51] *** CME <CME!~CME@ipb2181a88.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)[10:38:59] *** CME <CME!~CME@ipb2181a88.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has joined #illumos[10:54:15] *** catalinbostan <catalinbostan!~catalinbo@mail.prosys.ro> has joined #illumos[10:58:17] *** paracusia <paracusia!~ast@ip-178-203-186-4.hsi10.unitymediagroup.de> has joined #illumos[11:10:33] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@13-113-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Quit: tsoome)[11:18:47] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@185.39.197.205> has joined #illumos[11:20:00] *** ed209 <ed209!~ed209@165.225.128.67> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[11:20:07] *** ed209 <ed209!~ed209@165.225.128.67> has joined #illumos[11:40:48] *** neuroserve <neuroserve!~toens@195.71.113.124> has quit IRC (Quit: BitchX-1.1-final -- just do it.)[11:42:41] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@185.39.197.205> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[11:42:53] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@185.39.197.205> has joined #illumos[12:02:55] *** phlm <phlm!~textual@95.180.118.2> has joined #illumos[12:03:52] *** phlm <phlm!~textual@95.180.118.2> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[12:04:12] *** phlm <phlm!~phlm@95.180.118.2> has joined #illumos[12:05:59] *** paracusia <paracusia!~ast@ip-178-203-186-4.hsi10.unitymediagroup.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Ex-Chat)[12:09:10] *** phlm <phlm!~phlm@95.180.118.2> has quit IRC (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)[12:23:33] *** nikolam <nikolam!~nikolam@unaffiliated/nikolam> has joined #illumos[12:31:26] <igork> am i right understand - we are depend on libfakekernel with latest illumos?[12:31:41] <igork> and it should be installed all time?[12:32:18] <igork> i can see reference in libzpool/Makefile.com - -lfakekernel[12:38:45] *** pk12 <pk12!~pk12@199.241.146.163> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[12:40:28] *** pk12 <pk12!~pk12@199.241.146.163> has joined #illumos[12:40:55] *** catalinbostan <catalinbostan!~catalinbo@mail.prosys.ro> has quit IRC (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)[12:43:06] *** elevated <elevated!~elevated@192.96.203.69> has quit IRC (Quit: bye)[12:47:54] *** elevated <elevated!~elevated@199.254.238.203> has joined #illumos[12:59:08] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@138.103.235.80.sta.estpak.ee> has joined #illumos[13:13:57] *** tsoome_ <tsoome_!~tsoome@90.191.113.13> has joined #illumos[13:17:09] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@138.103.235.80.sta.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[13:17:09] *** tsoome_ is now known as tsoome[13:25:05] *** neuroserve <neuroserve!~toens@195.71.113.124> has joined #illumos[13:27:10] *** xorhash <xorhash!~xorhash@unaffiliated/xorhash> has left #illumos[14:00:20] *** jcea <jcea!~Thunderbi@2001:41d0:1:8a82:7670:6e00:7670:6e00> has joined #illumos[14:02:02] *** nikolam <nikolam!~nikolam@unaffiliated/nikolam> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[14:04:07] *** jacobs <jacobs!~jacobs@2603:300a:1618:b200:1c64:91b8:1cd1:d3d5> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[14:04:14] *** nikolam <nikolam!~nikolam@unaffiliated/nikolam> has joined #illumos[14:06:29] *** jacobs <jacobs!~jacobs@2603:300a:1618:b200:1c64:91b8:1cd1:d3d5> has joined #illumos[14:22:57] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@90.191.113.13> has quit IRC (Quit: tsoome)[14:26:08] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@13-113-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee> has joined #illumos[14:31:43] *** Nerakhon <Nerakhon!~janpaul@213.86.107.165> has quit IRC (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)[14:35:43] *** Nerakhon <Nerakhon!~janpaul@213.86.107.165> has joined #illumos[14:43:55] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@13-113-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Quit: tsoome)[15:08:57] <gitomat> [illumos-gate] 9015 krb5-config emits unnecessary -R flags -- Alexander Pyhalov <apyhalov at gmail dot com>[15:13:04] *** carlomagno <carlomagno!~cararell@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[15:15:28] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@98.13.72.207> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[15:22:36] *** carlomagno <carlomagno!~cararell@inet-hqmc01-o.oracle.com> has joined #illumos[15:34:20] *** bahamat <bahamat!~bahamat@2001:470:f0f4:a0a:4d05:5a3b:2cad:a22a> has joined #illumos[15:37:10] *** bahamat_ <bahamat_!~bahamat@2001:470:f0f4:a0a:14c6:1ea4:30ef:e2da> has joined #illumos[15:38:33] *** bahamat <bahamat!~bahamat@2001:470:f0f4:a0a:4d05:5a3b:2cad:a22a> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[15:42:05] *** Nerakhon_ <Nerakhon_!~janpaul@213.86.107.166> has joined #illumos[15:42:06] *** Nerakhon <Nerakhon!~janpaul@213.86.107.165> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[15:42:45] *** jacobs <jacobs!~jacobs@2603:300a:1618:b200:1c64:91b8:1cd1:d3d5> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[15:43:07] *** jacobs <jacobs!~jacobs@2603:300a:1618:b200:1c64:91b8:1cd1:d3d5> has joined #illumos[15:45:40] *** Nerakhon <Nerakhon!~janpaul@2001:4878:261:0:98ed:b857:b7c6:7d4d> has joined #illumos[15:46:35] *** Nerakhon_ <Nerakhon_!~janpaul@213.86.107.166> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[15:49:10] *** jlevon <jlevon!~jlevon@88.98.93.30> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[15:49:43] *** jlevon <jlevon!~jlevon@88.98.93.30> has joined #illumos[15:51:25] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@bidd-pub-03.gwi.net> has joined #illumos[15:53:19] *** phyre <phyre!~phyre___@188.208.100.249> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[15:55:01] *** Nerakhon <Nerakhon!~janpaul@2001:4878:261:0:98ed:b857:b7c6:7d4d> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[15:58:22] *** Nerakhon <Nerakhon!~janpaul@213.86.107.165> has joined #illumos[15:59:12] *** natkin <natkin!~textual@104-8-25-179.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net> has joined #illumos[16:01:00] *** tomoyat1 <tomoyat1!~tomoyat1@tomoyat1.com> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC 1.6.5 - http://znc.in)[16:01:17] *** xzi11a <xzi11a!~robert@pool-71-244-148-68.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net> has joined #illumos[16:01:31] *** tomoyat1 <tomoyat1!~tomoyat1@tomoyat1.com> has joined #illumos[16:03:30] *** kohju <kohju!~kohju@gw.justplayer.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[16:09:49] *** kohju <kohju!~kohju@gw.justplayer.com> has joined #illumos[16:17:36] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@111.29.68.168> has joined #illumos[16:19:28] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@111.29.68.168> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[16:26:10] *** neuroserve <neuroserve!~toens@195.71.113.124> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[16:26:31] *** sciguy16 <sciguy16!~david@unaffiliated/sciguy16> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[16:26:38] *** sciguy16 <sciguy16!~david@sciguy16.pw> has joined #illumos[16:26:38] *** sciguy16 <sciguy16!~david@sciguy16.pw> has quit IRC (Changing host)[16:26:38] *** sciguy16 <sciguy16!~david@unaffiliated/sciguy16> has joined #illumos[16:26:43] *** alhazred <alhazred!~Alex@dsl-lprbng11-54f889-133.dhcp.inet.fi> has quit IRC ()[16:27:23] *** alhazred <alhazred!~Alex@dsl-lprbng11-54f889-133.dhcp.inet.fi> has joined #illumos[16:32:05] *** alhazred <alhazred!~Alex@dsl-lprbng11-54f889-133.dhcp.inet.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[16:36:50] *** bahamat_ <bahamat_!~bahamat@2001:470:f0f4:a0a:14c6:1ea4:30ef:e2da> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[16:53:04] *** nikolam <nikolam!~nikolam@unaffiliated/nikolam> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[16:56:14] *** nikolam <nikolam!~nikolam@unaffiliated/nikolam> has joined #illumos[17:01:17] *** jwk404 <jwk404!~jwk404@c-73-95-226-215.hsd1.co.comcast.net> has joined #illumos[17:22:43] *** neuroserve <neuroserve!~toens@212.100.42.172.fixip.bitel.net> has joined #illumos[17:22:50] *** catalinbostan <catalinbostan!~catalinbo@mail.prosys.ro> has joined #illumos[17:25:45] *** mnowak_ <mnowak_!mnowak_@nat/suse/x-gejbhnlhnpnpunor> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[17:41:18] *** xzi11a <xzi11a!~robert@pool-71-244-148-68.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[17:41:27] <igork> hi all, do you have news about fixes for Intel cpu ?[17:41:58] <igork> i can try to help with testing if needed[17:42:47] <jlevon> did you see alex's email?[17:43:15] *** Bryson <Bryson!~anonymous@ip68-108-89-198.lv.lv.cox.net> has joined #illumos[17:43:24] *** catalinbostan <catalinbostan!~catalinbo@mail.prosys.ro> has quit IRC (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)[17:43:43] <igork> nope[17:43:50] <igork> where ? illumos-dev?[17:44:33] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@13-113-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee> has joined #illumos[17:47:44] *** thegattaca <thegattaca!~thegattac@209.58.144.169> has joined #illumos[17:50:40] *** sjorge <sjorge!~sjorge@unaffiliated/sjorge> has joined #illumos[17:54:04] *** alhazred <alhazred!~Alex@dsl-lprbng11-54f889-133.dhcp.inet.fi> has joined #illumos[17:55:56] <jperkin> smartos-discuss[18:05:16] <igork> jperkin: i it possible forward it to illumos-dev? or link to webmaillist message?[18:05:26] <igork> is it possible[18:07:17] *** leoric <leoric!~leoric@176.212.32.36> has joined #illumos[18:08:30] *** xzi11a <xzi11a!~robert@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net> has joined #illumos[18:08:41] *** sjorge <sjorge!~sjorge@unaffiliated/sjorge> has quit IRC (Quit: 410 Gone)[18:12:05] *** neuroserve <neuroserve!~toens@212.100.42.172.fixip.bitel.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[18:14:03] <rmustacc> I think Alex didn't send it to illumos-dev yet because he wanted to get a more final form together before we had too much review / testing.[18:14:51] <igork> rmustacc: ok, thanks for details[18:14:52] *** ptribble <ptribble!~ptribble@cpc92716-cmbg20-2-0-cust138.5-4.cable.virginm.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[18:15:06] <igork> do you have some estimates for first part for testing?[18:15:52] <rmustacc> I do not, sorry. arekinath will be able to provide more information.[18:17:53] *** Toasterson <Toasterson!~toast@98.4.150.83.dyn.dsl.as8758.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[18:18:12] *** sjorge <sjorge!~sjorge@unaffiliated/sjorge> has joined #illumos[18:20:32] *** kkantor <kkantor!~KodyKanto@c-73-242-105-2.hsd1.mn.comcast.net> has joined #illumos[18:36:28] *** man_u <man_u!~manu@manu2.gandi.net> has quit IRC (Quit: man_u)[18:42:00] *** kkantor_ <kkantor_!~KodyKanto@c-73-242-105-2.hsd1.mn.comcast.net> has joined #illumos[18:42:20] *** kkantor <kkantor!~KodyKanto@c-73-242-105-2.hsd1.mn.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[18:42:20] *** kkantor_ is now known as kkantor[18:46:49] *** natkin <natkin!~textual@104-8-25-179.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[18:46:56] *** thegattaca <thegattaca!~thegattac@209.58.144.169> has quit IRC (Quit: Sleepy...)[18:55:14] *** bahamat <bahamat!~bahamat@2001:470:f0f4:a0a:a936:18f8:f844:715c> has joined #illumos[19:01:35] *** bbbryson <bbbryson!~anonymous@ip68-108-89-198.lv.lv.cox.net> has joined #illumos[19:02:45] *** Bryson <Bryson!~anonymous@ip68-108-89-198.lv.lv.cox.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[19:02:45] *** bbbryson is now known as Bryson[19:02:57] *** Toasterson <Toasterson!~toast@2a02:aa10:e280:b880:e3d5:f722:2d0a:1d1a> has joined #illumos[19:38:02] *** natkin <natkin!~textual@12.247.3.50> has joined #illumos[19:45:30] *** thegattaca <thegattaca!~thegattac@209.58.144.169> has joined #illumos[19:46:39] <arekinath> igork: yeah, I sent binary builds out to smartos-discuss first because we know the patch still needs some work before review, but wanted people to test out just trying to run the thing at all[19:47:40] <arekinath> you're quite welcome to squash and cherry-pick it across from the repo though if you're keen to give it a try, it's where it was before[19:48:20] <igork> arekinath: thanks for info, ping me with changes[19:48:47] <arekinath> https://github.com/rmustacc/illumos-gate/tree/kpti-dev[19:48:54] <igork> thanks[19:49:13] <arekinath> It's not squashed up yet, all in work in progress commits[19:50:14] <richlowe> can I get a couple reviews of the boot/ build fix (I don't understand why it's as rare as it is , so pay special care), and the cdm EOF?[20:20:49] *** kkantor <kkantor!~KodyKanto@c-73-242-105-2.hsd1.mn.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: kkantor)[20:21:09] <yurip> is there any reason we continue to use boolean_t instead of bool, especially in kernel which is always built with c99 specified?[20:33:01] <tsoome> I fail to see any…[20:33:22] <LeftWing> Consistency?[20:33:53] <tsoome> you mean, should we be consistent with c99 or with history?;)[20:34:11] <LeftWing> boolean_t is consistent with both C99 and history, unless enums have gone missing?[20:34:14] <tsoome> time of transition is mixed anyhow[20:34:33] <richlowe> I don't think there's any reason, beyond it being a thing we do.[20:35:11] <richlowe> I could probably invent a silly one, if you wanted?[20:36:06] <LeftWing> Does the standard apply the same sizing rules to "enum" and "bool"?[20:36:22] <richlowe> Yeah, that's where my silly reason would be looking :)[20:36:26] <richlowe> and do they promote the same way![20:39:02] <arekinath> well, those would be important if you were considering doing a search and replace on all boolean_t, for sure :P[20:39:30] <arekinath> (i.e. is it going to change struct sizes or expression semantics and is that safe everywhere)[20:40:00] <igork> arekinath: and how often it will kill kernel to panic :)[20:41:43] <arekinath> I don't know that we would search-and-replace everything though if we decided to start using bools[20:42:02] <arekinath> probably just do it in new code and occasionally clean old code up while touching it anyway (and re-test it to make sure it's still fine)[20:42:40] <igork> needs some stress tests[20:42:41] <LeftWing> I think if we're going to clean things up, there are many more important things to clean up first[20:43:01] <LeftWing> Stress tests are not sufficient, we'd need to look at what the compiler is actually doing, what the standard promises, etc.[20:43:15] <mgerdts> is user space compiled with C99 by default as well?[20:43:23] <LeftWing> Not everywhere[20:43:34] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@185.39.197.205> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[20:43:38] <richlowe> not in most places[20:43:48] <LeftWing> Apart from the bits of libc where it can't be, we should be moving in that direction though[20:43:53] <tsoome> it is a zoo there:)[20:43:55] <richlowe> libm too[20:44:01] <LeftWing> Right, m/c[21:11:13] *** phyre <phyre!~phyre___@188.208.100.249> has joined #illumos[21:12:36] <yurip> ugh, I'm not suggesting we go over and replace all uses, was just wondering if there's a reason to NOT use bool[21:12:39] *** sjorge <sjorge!~sjorge@unaffiliated/sjorge> has quit IRC (Quit: 410 Gone)[21:12:46] <yurip> in new code, that is[21:20:00] *** ed209 <ed209!~ed209@165.225.128.67> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[21:20:07] *** ed209 <ed209!~ed209@165.225.128.67> has joined #illumos[21:26:04] *** sjorge <sjorge!~sjorge@unaffiliated/sjorge> has joined #illumos[21:30:18] *** kkantor <kkantor!~KodyKanto@c-73-242-105-2.hsd1.mn.comcast.net> has joined #illumos[21:38:26] *** nikolam <nikolam!~nikolam@unaffiliated/nikolam> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[21:58:04] *** natkin <natkin!~textual@12.247.3.50> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[22:07:16] *** alhazred <alhazred!~Alex@dsl-lprbng11-54f889-133.dhcp.inet.fi> has quit IRC ()[22:17:57] *** bahamat <bahamat!~bahamat@2001:470:f0f4:a0a:a936:18f8:f844:715c> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:18:26] *** bahamat <bahamat!~bahamat@2001:470:f0f4:a0a:a936:18f8:f844:715c> has joined #illumos[22:19:17] <igork> tsoome: we haev zoo in zoo :)[22:25:00] *** phyre <phyre!~phyre___@188.208.100.249> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[22:37:47] *** hotaronohanako <hotaronohanako!~user@unaffiliated/hotaronohanako> has joined #illumos[22:43:13] *** natkin <natkin!~textual@12.247.3.50> has joined #illumos[23:05:13] *** Kurlon_ <Kurlon_!~Kurlon@bidd-pub-04.gwi.net> has joined #illumos[23:08:27] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@bidd-pub-03.gwi.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[23:10:06] *** Kurlon_ <Kurlon_!~Kurlon@bidd-pub-04.gwi.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[23:31:18] *** btibble <btibble!~brantibbl@c-24-72-255-52.ni.gigamonster.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[23:36:27] *** btibble <btibble!~brantibbl@c-24-72-255-52.ni.gigamonster.net> has joined #illumos[23:46:09] *** jwk404 <jwk404!~jwk404@c-73-95-226-215.hsd1.co.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)