July 6, 2016 
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or point me to a repo where it exists[15:04:18] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@cpe-104-228-216-170.maine.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)[15:07:03] <denk> btw, the link to /hipster given at https://www.openoffice.org/porting/index.html does not exist[15:29:12] <nikolam> alp moved it some time ago and it's not updated on Openoffice.org.[15:29:12] *** nikolam <nikolam!~nikolam@unaffiliated/nikolam> has quit IRC (Excess Flood)[15:30:31] *** nikolam <nikolam!~nikolam@unaffiliated/nikolam> has joined #illumos[15:31:19] <nikolam> denk, https://github.com/OpenIndiana/oi-userland/tree/oi/hipster/components/desktop/openoffice[15:31:21] <nikolam> and Openoffice in OI needs a fix so save .ODT/ODS files..[15:34:24] <denk> maybe libreoffice is better, but I have not found any language packs for it too[15:35:14] <denk> our office women want it :)[15:36:14] *** shyu <shyu!~Frank@218.241.172.114> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[15:36:51] *** jfqd1 <jfqd1!~Adium@pD95DC040.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[15:37:06] <denk> I mean that they want a localization[15:40:02] <denk> damn, wrong window for that question, sorry :([15:44:19] <nikolam> aha I see[15:45:45] <nikolam> #pkgbuild is channel for Libreoffice for OI that comes from SFE[15:49:14] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@bidd-pub-03.gwi.net> has joined #illumos[15:50:40] *** esoel__ <esoel__!~esoel_@212.44.61.162.ip.redstone-isp.net> has joined #illumos[15:51:28] *** esoel_ <esoel_!~esoel_@194.168.210.162> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[15:55:19] *** esoel__ <esoel__!~esoel_@212.44.61.162.ip.redstone-isp.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[15:59:19] *** esoel_ <esoel_!~esoel_@194.168.210.162> has joined #illumos[16:00:56] *** tdowg1 <tdowg1!~quassel@pool-68-134-194-81.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net> has joined #illumos[16:03:31] *** esoel_ <esoel_!~esoel_@194.168.210.162> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[16:08:02] <alp> andy_js: do you think it's worth relocating files delivered by illumos-gate from /etc/hal to /usr/share/hal ?[16:08:42] *** xzi11a <xzi11a!~robert@rrcs-74-219-209-60.central.biz.rr.com> has joined #illumos[16:09:24] <andy_js> alp: I’m in two minds about it. On one hand I think the way things were done originally was a mistake, but on the other hand I think HAL isn’t longed for this world so maybe not the best use of time.[16:09:34] <andy_js> I’d support it if someone else is doing work though :)[16:10:08] <alp> https://www.illumos.org/issues/7174[16:11:41] <alp> at least delivering hal files in /etc/hal/* is done rather consistently in OI (xorg, hal, hal-cups-utils)[16:12:20] <alp> perhaps I just have to move hplip fdis to /etc and forget about it[16:14:50] *** tim-tang <tim-tang!~tim_tang@58.209.164.19> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:16:43] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@199-46-71-217.dyn.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Quit: tsoome)[16:16:52] *** matejz <matejz!~matejz@141.255.254.208> has quit IRC (Quit: matejz)[16:17:34] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@111.206.190.205> has joined #illumos[16:19:04] *** rmesta <rmesta!~rmesta@cpe-70-114-131-66.austin.res.rr.com> has joined #illumos[16:19:38] <PMT> andy_js: not long for this world meaning someone's planning to purge it?[16:20:27] <andy_js> PMT: freedesktop.org have killed it off. It’s no longer supported.[16:20:39] <alp> FreeBSD still ships it[16:20:47] <alp> do we have an alternative?[16:20:52] <andy_js> The Linux fundamentalists are pushing for everybody to use udev instead.[16:20:55] <PMT> oh boy.[16:21:39] <alp> are there any chances that someone want or can port it? :)[16:22:00] <alp> it seems to be Linux-only thing AFAIK[16:22:15] <Toasterson> udev is part of systemd and depends on that[16:22:18] <PMT> I admit, I was more fond of udev than I was hal for some of the problems solved here, but udev also isn't available as a distinct thing outside of systemd any more (unless you're talking about a fork like eudev)[16:22:44] *** jfqd1 <jfqd1!~Adium@pD95DC040.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #illumos[16:24:56] <nbjoerg> Toasterson: not exactly[16:24:58] <alp> have never looked at udev API, but could do interesting things with hal (like emulating desktop devices)...[16:25:02] <nbjoerg> Toasterson: udev is older than systemd[16:25:20] <nbjoerg> but yes, DEs are a mess of linuxisms more than ever[16:25:52] <alp> don't care which one survives as long as it suports illumos and DEs can work with it[16:26:05] <Toasterson> nbjoerg it did not always depend on systemd. but afaik they added a dependency some time ago[16:26:13] <nbjoerg> correct[16:26:19] <nbjoerg> as usual with systemd[16:26:27] <PMT> AIUI they subsumed the udev project into systemd development entirely.[16:27:02] <nikolam> denk, I just made switching LibreOffice locale, so interface is now displayed with another language.[16:27:43] <denk> nikolam: thanks, I will try it in some time[16:28:10] <andy_js> I’m waiting for the day they announce that systemd no longer requires a Linux kernel.[16:28:23] <lotheac> because it ships its own? :P[16:29:07] <Toasterson> I would want to see the reaction to that. From far away :)[16:29:19] <andy_js> They are going to gradually move more and more functionality into systemd[16:29:49] <jbk> systemd will become a unikernel :)[16:30:07] <andy_js> Hypervisor from hell.[16:30:25] <andy_js> Then I guess people will be running Linux in a container.[16:30:38] <nikolam> denk, and yes, confirming OO can't currently change locale[16:30:44] <andy_js> I hope I’m not giving Lennart ideas.[16:31:22] <PMT> soon: systemd/Linux[16:31:38] <nbjoerg> nonono[16:31:39] <PMT> andy_js: I'm sure he already has a toy kernel he runs systemd on in his spare time for fun[16:31:41] <nbjoerg> GNU/systemd[16:32:09] <PMT> IMO he's far more likely to replace all of userland than the kernel, from past behavior.[16:32:38] <nbjoerg> nah, we will just introduce his own pseudo system calls[16:32:56] * Toasterson wonders if there is something in the direction of gnu udev[16:35:19] <PMT> I don't think the FSF cares about systemd, since it's not reducing user freedom in the ways they nominally care about.[16:37:35] <xenol> 16:26 < Toasterson> nbjoerg it did not always depend on systemd. but afaik they added a dependency some time ago[16:37:54] <andy_js> Porting udev over makes no sense at all.[16:38:07] <xenol> please don't mistake adding dependency on systemd and being made part of systemd[16:38:11] <andy_js> If we really want compatiblity we have to come up with our own implementation.[16:38:12] <xenol> systemd consumed udev[16:38:28] <xenol> as did with a lot of other projects, e.g. gummibear[16:38:35] <andy_js> Like what Joyent did for epoll.[16:38:38] <nbjoerg> xenol: it's a multistage project[16:39:00] *** pmooney <pmooney!~pmooney@50-93-248-179.fttp.usinternet.com> has joined #illumos[16:39:02] <xenol> nbjoerg: iirc udev can't be used on it's own w/o systemd[16:39:17] <xenol> gentoo folks got upset and created eudev (you mentioned it)[16:39:33] *** MilkmanDan <MilkmanDan!~dan@wilug/expat/MilkmanDan> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[16:39:35] <xenol> but it doesn't change anything - it still does not run on illumos[16:39:37] <andy_js> They didn’t just add a dependency they moved udev into the systemd source tree, if I’m not mistaken.[16:39:43] <xenol> and question here is if we could replace it[16:39:44] <nbjoerg> xenol: I mean, first things are independent. then some gitifies them^W^Wadds a systemd dependency. then it borgs it[16:39:56] <nbjoerg> it can be replaced[16:40:07] <xenol> without patching every DE out there?[16:40:20] <nbjoerg> you can write a udev emulation layer[16:40:39] <andy_js> Right.[16:40:50] *** potatosalad <potatosalad!~potatosal@69.20.161.247> has joined #illumos[16:40:55] <xenol> I liked what KDE did once with their audio backend phonon[16:40:57] <andy_js> As long as we support the APIs I didn’t matter what’s behind them.[16:41:05] <andy_js> *it doesn’t matter.[16:41:38] <andy_js> I think XFCE does something similar.[16:42:01] <xenol> we should maybe check out how FreeBSD does thing and if there is already some project, which we could contribute to[16:42:02] <andy_js> Unfortunately the GNOME guys are forcing systemd on everybody.[16:42:12] <xenol> it would help both platform I think[16:42:21] <xenol> platforms*[16:42:29] <xenol> andy_js: yeah, but there are great alternatives to gnome[16:43:28] <andy_js> Like what?[16:43:57] <danieli> lxde, cinnamon, xfce, kde[16:44:00] <xenol> mate[16:44:05] <andy_js> Besides KDE and XFCE.[16:44:18] <xenol> mate is a continuation of gnome2[16:44:55] <xenol> and pcbsd is also creating lumina[16:45:15] <xenol> elementary OS DE could be probably used, too (not sure what they use as WM though)[16:45:40] <xenol> https://lumina-desktop.org/screenshots/[16:45:52] <danieli> elementary's DE is called pantheon[16:46:01] <xenol> thanks[16:46:09] <danieli> i quite like i3, bspwm and xmonad too[16:46:15] <danieli> if you do haskell you'll enjoy xmonad[16:46:27] <alp> FreeBSD people seems to support hal still (last commit ~ 10 months ago)[16:46:36] *** livelace <livelace!~livelace@46.101.54.207> has joined #illumos[16:46:36] <xenol> danieli: there is also awesome[16:46:50] <andy_js> I while back I was thinking of forking HAL.[16:47:00] <andy_js> I don’t think it’s actually as bad as people make out.[16:47:17] <xenol> there are good options to choose from. Only problem is that illumos ecosystem is broken[16:47:24] <xenol> and much of work is duplicated[16:47:55] *** MilkmanDan <MilkmanDan!~dan@wilug/expat/MilkmanDan> has joined #illumos[16:48:12] <xenol> andy_js: hal was always disaster. When I used linux as a main platform, I had problems with hal all the time[16:48:20] <xenol> I was glad once I could replace it with udev[16:48:31] <xenol> but that was 8 years ago[16:48:37] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@220-90-235-80.dyn.estpak.ee> has joined #illumos[16:48:38] <andy_js> I don’t know. Things seemed to get a lot better when HAL came out.[16:48:51] <xenol> YMMV[16:49:05] <andy_js> I remember installing an early version of Ubuntu on a Thinkpad and everything worked out of the box. I was stunned.[16:49:12] *** potatosalad <potatosalad!~potatosal@69.20.161.247> has quit IRC (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[16:49:24] <andy_js> And I’m sure part of that was down to HAL.[16:49:26] <danieli> xenol: yep[16:49:44] <PMT> hal could cause problems, but not having something to coordinate a number of the things involved also caused a great many problems.[16:50:21] <Toasterson> freebsd and freedesktop are also working on something called devicekit https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/DeviceKit/[16:50:42] <andy_js> That was supposed to be the successor to HAL.[16:50:58] <andy_js> I didn’t think the project worked out as planned.[16:51:05] <xenol> yeah, it's an older piece of software iirc[16:51:22] <andy_js> As an ex-GNOME dev I’m quite familiar with this stuff.[16:51:27] <tsoome> im sure systemd will do all the hal was doing, was planned to do and much more:P[16:51:58] *** mmlb <mmlb!~mmlb@2601:589:c401:17e4:214:d1ff:fe25:7f38> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)[16:52:19] *** mmlb <mmlb!~mmlb@2601:589:c401:17e4:214:d1ff:fe25:7f38> has joined #illumos[16:52:39] <xenol> tsoome: hopefully, it will be able to make sandwiches one day :P[16:52:54] <tsoome> :D[16:53:10] <jperkin> yeh mate works pretty well, and is preferable for a lot of people anyway who value functionality over bling[16:53:26] <xenol> but having used system on large amount of server, I have to admit that some things and ideas they had were great[16:53:35] <PMT> xenol: it probably already can, if you wrote a sufficiently clever udev rule[16:53:37] <xenol> only problem is with the arrogance of the developers[16:54:29] <xenol> and how it was forced everywhere[16:54:59] <andy_js> One thing that sucked about the DeviceKit stuff was the license.[16:55:06] <andy_js> It’s all GPL. A big step backward.[16:55:17] <andy_js> At least HAL was MIT.[16:55:45] *** ericray <ericray!~ejray@73.95.137.105> has quit IRC (Quit: ericray)[16:58:15] <andy_js> Well whatever I think the way to go would be to implement something that’s compatible with udev. I think there is a libudev, so if we provide a drop-in replacement we should be good.[16:58:48] <andy_js> Then we can just run GNOME or whatever without having to care about them not being interested in supporting non-Linux OSes.[16:59:17] *** CharlesN <CharlesN!~cnb@pc-101-219-214-201.cm.vtr.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[17:04:20] *** carlomagno <carlomagno!~cmagno@inet-hqmc07-o.oracle.com> has joined #illumos[17:06:19] <Toasterson> i agree[17:10:12] *** Toasterson <Toasterson!~Thunderbi@83.150.30.68> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[17:15:46] *** nikolam <nikolam!~nikolam@unaffiliated/nikolam> has quit IRC (Excess Flood)[17:22:47] *** potatosalad <potatosalad!~potatosal@69.20.161.247> has joined #illumos[17:28:17] *** tozhu <tozhu!~Thunderbi@111.206.190.205> has quit IRC (Quit: tozhu)[17:38:54] *** jduggan_ <jduggan_!~thom@s.tankengine.org.uk> has joined #illumos[17:40:59] *** wacki 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<potatosalad!~potatosal@69.20.161.247> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[18:36:25] <igork> drop HAL in illumos and provide it by userland distribution package[18:36:30] *** potatosalad <potatosalad!~potatosal@69.20.161.247> has joined #illumos[18:36:33] <igork> with changes what needs for distribution[18:37:31] <alp> now we only have to find out what changes are needed...[18:38:03] <richlowe> iirc, that's "all of the solaris support, most of which is consolidation-private"[18:39:36] *** man_u <man_u!~manu@manu2.gandi.net> has quit IRC (Quit: man_u)[18:46:51] *** pmooney <pmooney!~pmooney@50-93-248-179.fttp.usinternet.com> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)[18:59:36] *** alanc <alanc!~alanc@inet-hqmc06-o.oracle.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)[19:04:14] *** alanc <alanc!~alanc@inet-hqmc06-o.oracle.com> has joined #illumos[19:04:53] *** pmooney <pmooney!~pmooney@173-11-44-141-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has joined #illumos[19:10:07] *** npx 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<xzi11a!~robert@rrcs-74-219-209-60.central.biz.rr.com> has joined #illumos[20:11:37] *** ericray <ericray!~ejray@c-73-78-104-115.hsd1.co.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: ericray)[20:12:09] *** dap_ <dap_!~dap@208.184.5.170> has joined #illumos[20:21:53] *** leoric <leoric!~leoric@176.213.138.248> has joined #illumos[21:02:04] *** andy_js <andy_js!~andy@90.219.225.136> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[21:02:39] *** andy_js <andy_js!~andy@90.219.225.136> has joined #illumos[21:02:58] *** DKnoto <DKnoto!~DKnoto@apn-95-40-7-7.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[21:12:51] *** potatosalad <potatosalad!~potatosal@69.20.161.247> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)[21:16:11] *** DKnoto <DKnoto!~DKnoto@apn-31-1-72-222.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl> has joined #illumos[21:17:10] *** makruger <makruger!~Michael@c-65-96-193-9.hsd1.vt.comcast.net> has joined #illumos[21:19:42] *** atrius <atrius!~atrius@24-179-81-84.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[21:24:01] *** ericray <ericray!~ejray@c-76-25-145-48.hsd1.co.comcast.net> has joined #illumos[21:32:08] *** atrius <atrius!~atrius@24-179-81-84.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com> has joined #illumos[21:33:45] *** potatosalad <potatosalad!~potatosal@69.20.161.247> has joined #illumos[21:33:48] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@119-4-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[21:39:32] *** potatosalad <potatosalad!~potatosal@69.20.161.247> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[21:41:17] <tsoome> errm.[21:41:39] <tsoome> am I blind or something: note: expected 'struct EFI_GRAPHICS_OUTPUT_BLT_PIXEL *' but argument is of type 'struct EFI_GRAPHICS_OUTPUT_BLT_PIXEL *'[21:41:43] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@119-4-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has joined #illumos[21:42:26] *** matejz <matejz!~matejz@element.planetq.org> has joined #illumos[21:43:06] <leoric> is EFI_GRAPHICS_OUTPUT_BLT_PIXEL redefined somewhere?[21:43:13] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@119-4-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[21:43:53] <tsoome> I dont think it should be…[21:43:59] <tsoome> but lets see...[21:44:06] *** merzo <merzo!~merzo@119-4-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net> has joined #illumos[21:45:07] *** nikolam <nikolam!~nikolam@unaffiliated/nikolam> has joined #illumos[21:46:20] *** igork <igork!~igork@static.146.8.9.5.clients.your-server.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[21:46:43] *** igork <igork!~igork@static.146.8.9.5.clients.your-server.de> has joined #illumos[21:46:54] <tsoome> nop..[21:47:09] *** dap_ <dap_!~dap@208.184.5.170> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[21:48:17] <tsoome> ah. it was typedef struct{} EFI_GRAPHICS_OUTPUT_BLT_PIXEL; so the struct keyword is not needed:D[21:52:07] *** tim-tang <tim-tang!~tim_tang@58.209.166.106> has joined #illumos[22:00:41] *** tim-tang <tim-tang!~tim_tang@58.209.166.106> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:02:29] <alanc> your random trivia for today: the etymology of truss(1): https://gist.github.com/alanc/419b0fe4843e010930b0b85eaea1dd7f[22:03:01] *** livelace <livelace!~livelace@46.101.54.207> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[22:03:15] <tsoome> :)[22:06:58] *** Kelzier <Kelzier!~duka@77.105.56.159> has joined #illumos[22:08:14] *** potatosalad <potatosalad!~potatosal@69.20.161.247> has joined #illumos[22:09:24] *** xzi11a <xzi11a!~robert@rrcs-74-219-209-60.central.biz.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)[22:13:24] *** matejz <matejz!~matejz@element.planetq.org> has quit IRC (Quit: matejz)[22:14:25] *** xzi11a <xzi11a!~robert@rrcs-74-219-209-60.central.biz.rr.com> has joined #illumos[22:20:00] *** ed209 <ed209!~ed209@165.225.128.67> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:20:06] *** ed209 <ed209!~ed209@165.225.128.67> has joined #illumos[22:20:51] *** ericray <ericray!~ejray@c-76-25-145-48.hsd1.co.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: ericray)[22:23:29] *** jfqd1 <jfqd1!~Adium@pD95DC040.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[22:24:22] *** ericray <ericray!~ejray@c-76-25-145-48.hsd1.co.comcast.net> has joined #illumos[22:25:00] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@220-90-235-80.dyn.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Quit: tsoome)[22:27:57] *** tsoome <tsoome!~tsoome@220-90-235-80.dyn.estpak.ee> has joined #illumos[22:29:20] <rmustacc> alanc: Thanks[22:37:36] *** wacki <wacki!~andreas@p20030045465BD10142A8F0FFFE63E17C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has left #illumos[22:40:53] *** dap_ <dap_!~dap@208.184.5.170> has joined #illumos[22:42:13] *** Kurlon_ <Kurlon_!~Kurlon@bidd-pub-04.gwi.net> has joined #illumos[22:45:36] *** Kurlon <Kurlon!~Kurlon@bidd-pub-03.gwi.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[22:46:20] *** Kurlon_ <Kurlon_!~Kurlon@bidd-pub-04.gwi.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[22:50:51] *** potatosalad <potatosalad!~potatosal@69.20.161.247> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[22:53:51] *** nikolam <nikolam!~nikolam@unaffiliated/nikolam> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 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