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[00:34:00] <HaikuUser> hello
[00:34:23] <nepugia> G'day
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[09:18:44] <Begasus> g'morning peeps
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[09:30:30] <johnny_b> morning
[09:33:51] <Begasus> hi johnny_b !
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[09:34:16] <Not-3d6a> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-2/±0] https://git.io/fjJAY
[09:34:17] <Not-3d6a> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 42f7ae2 - ack, bump version (#3710)
[09:34:35] <Not-3d6a> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±0] https://git.io/fjJAO
[09:34:36] <Not-3d6a> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 55bc943 - acr, bump version (#3711)
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[09:45:22] <hey68you> Hi - any body know if there's a port of Dolphin (Qt File Manager) for Haiku - don't see it on HaikuDepot GUI - just Krusader
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[09:47:00] <leorize> if you don't see it there then chances are high that it's not ported yet
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[09:49:47] <Begasus> nothing in haikuports also
[09:52:05] <hey68you> ok thanks - if someone is able to try to port it or this: https://github.com/rodlie/qtfm that would be great
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[10:00:28] <Begasus> no sys/vfs.h or mount.h for qtfm
[10:01:01] <Begas_VBox> sys/mount.h*
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[10:06:43] <Begasus> missing libinotify also
[10:06:55] <Begasus> so maybe I should start looking there :)
[10:07:25] <Begasus> ps leorize can we use statvfs.h instead of vfs.h (slightly remember it passing by in the past)
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[10:14:12] <Not-3d6a> [haikuports/haikuports] diversys pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/fjJAQ
[10:14:13] <Not-3d6a> [haikuports/haikuports] diversys f3948fe - KolourPaint: fix typo in post-install script
[10:14:23] <leorize> I don't think so :p
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[10:25:12] <Begas_VBox> ok, no luck on libinotify also here
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[11:53:32] <Begas_VBox> bugger, now it's starting 4 threads (apr tests)
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[11:57:40] <chad7> superprower: I have successfully configured haiku on my VM
[11:59:54] <chad7> PulkoMandy:Can I start documenting the classes? Like for eg. as You said BUrl class? Any leads how to understand the classes and its basic functions?
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[12:04:44] <Not-3d6a> [haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes pushed 1 commit to master [+4/-4/±0] https://git.io/fjJpN
[12:04:46] <Not-3d6a> [haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes efbfdd5 - Telegram: bump version
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[12:36:08] <Begasus> re, system freeze (what was to be expected)
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[14:26:06] <Begas_VBox> No module named 'pkg_resources' ... I must be missing something, in Terminal it's working ok (already added setuptools_python to the recipe)
[14:30:03] <Begas_VBox> nvm :)
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[15:34:02] <leorize> leorize[m]2: ping
[15:34:28] <leorize[m]2> leorize: pong
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[15:38:17] <devport> cocobean is here ?
[15:38:22] <waddlesplash> tsarfox: what's your GSoC proposal going to be on, if I may ask?
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[15:50:03] <waddlesplash> devport: hey
[15:50:25] <waddlesplash> so, have you tried rebooting into Haiku from another OS with working sound? do you have output that way?
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[15:52:45] <devport> I have only windows
[15:53:05] <devport> and sound not working
[15:53:37] <devport> i have idea
[15:55:21] <devport> reading code and verified with linux/hda_intel...
[15:56:17] <devport> my controller is ICH7 and linux driver this chip checked is "old"
[15:56:42] <devport> haiku only support new chip
[15:57:07] <devport> PCH, SCH
[15:58:25] <mmu_man> ZSH!
[15:58:35] <devport> cocobean planned this fix
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[15:58:51] <devport> mayby :P
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[15:59:36] <devport> i have beginner :) i like programing ARM cortex-M0 M3 microcontrolers ;P
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[16:01:53] <waddlesplash> devport: ICH7 may be AC97?
[16:01:59] <waddlesplash> or is it indeed HDA?
[16:02:57] <devport> in windows i have installed driver realtek alc269  and intel NM10/ICH7
[16:06:26] <dr_evil> looks like HDA
[16:06:55] <dr_evil> it is HDA
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[16:08:00] <devport> device Multimedia controller (Audio device) [4|3|0]   vendor 8086: Intel Corporation   device 27d8: NM10/ICH7 Family High Definition Audio Controller
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[16:11:44] <devport> in file hda_controller.c not support my id 27d8
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[16:33:07] <Begas_VBox> leorize, playing with yourself? :P
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[16:41:42] <leorize[m]2> yea, I'm running between matrix servers :P
[16:41:48] <leorize[m]2> trying to find one with the lowest latency
[16:42:34] <Begas_VBox> did you check the color of the pill you took? :P
[16:42:44] <Begas_VBox> (red/blue) ;)
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[16:47:48] <leorize[m]> I took both ;) got multiplication power now
[16:48:10] <Begasus> :D
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[16:51:35] <Begas_VBox> hmm can you use setuptools_python3 with cmd:python(2)? checking out latest atk that uses meson/ninja
[16:53:30] <leorize[m]2> no :P
[16:53:37] <leorize[m]2> but why would you need setuptools?
[16:54:01] <Begas_VBox> No module named 'pkg_resources'
[16:54:19] <Begas_VBox> well probably supplied with python3
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[16:54:25] <Begas_VBox> didn't check that yet
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[16:56:35] <Begas_VBox> but then, cmd:python isn't supplied by python3
[16:56:55] <humdinger> pkgman: install peep:Begasus
[16:57:11] <Begas_VBox> pkgman:peep:humdinger
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[17:02:51] <Begas_VBox> seems is does need setuptools_python3
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[17:59:44] * Begas_VBox is slapping gir ...
[18:00:06] <Begas_VBox> Installing atk/Atk-1.0.gir to /packages/atk_x86-2.32.0-1/.self/share/gir-1.0
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[18:08:25] * extrowerk is slapping Calibre
[18:08:28] <extrowerk> still
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[18:09:00] <extrowerk> but got some hints (actually inserted one metric tons of debug prints in every strategical corner
[18:09:01] <Begas_VBox> ;)
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[18:09:53] <Begas_VBox> not familiar to much with meson, so still finding out what it uses for the gir file :)
[18:13:29] <nepugia> How performant is haiku in a wm i wonder
[18:13:35] <nepugia> is it quick enough to do my emails... :3
[18:14:19] <Begas_VBox> Installing atk/Atk-1.0.gir to /packages/atk_x86-2.32.0-1/.self/data/gir-1.0
[18:14:24] <Begas_VBox> looks better :)
[18:14:41] <extrowerk> no wonder, test it, and you will see. nobody have the same computer as you, so if you need any objective input, measure it.
[18:14:42] <extrowerk> :)
[18:14:44] <Begas_VBox> grabbing atk_x86-2.32.0-1-x86_gcc2.hpkg and moving it to /boot/home/haikuports/packages/atk_x86-2.32.0-1-x86_gcc2.hpkg ...
[18:15:12] <Begas_VBox> nepugia, I mostly run Haiku in VirtualBox :)
[18:15:46] <nepugia> FreeBSD's virtualbox is not as performant as the one on linux afaik, i use qemu :g
[18:15:57] <nepugia> (can't figure out how to start bhyve)
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[18:16:11] <HAIKU-irker172> haiku.master: kallisti5 * hrev53002 [1 commit] https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=c085f3863924+%5E7f94422796ec
[18:16:11] <HAIKU-irker172>     c085f3863924: riscv64: Fill in more bulk architecture items around libroot/kernel
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[18:16:23] <nepugia> hmm, why does the email programm want a field
[18:16:30] <nepugia> 'email adress' and 'login name'
[18:16:43] <nepugia> i'd think it onyl needs the later to connect to my imap and smtp server
[18:17:02] <nepugia> (and my server allows me to put anything into from aslong as the domain matches, so ideally i would want to be able to do that :3)
[18:17:27] <nepugia> oh it has login name and account name... now i am completely lost
[18:18:15] <humdinger> Account name is up to you, nepugia
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[18:21:11] <nepugia> Not sure what it is supposed to be :/
[18:21:26] <nepugia> for what does it use it? is it the identifier it uses in the UI or something?
[18:21:59] <Begas_VBox> haven't used email in Haiku for a long time
[18:23:13] <extrowerk> every hint shows, that my pyqt is broken.
[18:23:17] <Begas_VBox> all tests passed for atk_x86
[18:23:19] <extrowerk> lets rebuild it locally
[18:23:51] <extrowerk> pyqt says it will build the qtopengl stuff, but i am sure it doesn't work
[18:24:08] <extrowerk> i hope calibre crashing not because it tries to use some qtgl thing
[18:24:24] <PulkoMandy> nepugia: yes, account name is for use in the UI, login name is the login for the servers (sometimes it is the full address, sometimes just the part before the @, and I guess more rarely it is something else)
[18:24:45] <PulkoMandy> we have some kind of autosetup for these but the provider database is incomplete and not always up to date
[18:25:06] <PulkoMandy> you can contact humdinger to see how to add info for your provider there, usually he takes care of this
[18:25:41] <humdinger> can do :)
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[18:32:28] <Begas_VBox> why is our glib2 still not on par with _x86 in regard to the one for x86_gcc2?
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[18:35:16] <Begas_VBox> glib2-2.53.5-5-x86_gcc2.hpkg vs glib2_x86-2.57.1-1-x86_gcc2.hpkg
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[18:40:27] <extrowerk> Ah, Falkon 3.1 just released, expect incoming "Whoa, why do you guys doesn't port Falkon" comments.
[18:43:30] <mmu_man> "Because we were waiting for you to do it."
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[18:45:43] <Begas_VBox> I guess it's one of the "important" libraries mmu_man, so I better leave it to the ones in charge ;)
[18:47:03] <Begas_VBox> trying to build gobject_introspection for our current x86_gcc2 glib2
[18:47:34] <Begas_VBox> so far for that :(
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[18:49:14] <PulkoMandy> Begas_VBox: why so much efforts with gcc2?
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[18:49:24] <PulkoMandy> it's fine to let gcc2 libs become more out of date
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[18:49:33] <PulkoMandy> we need them only for old BeOS stuff, right?
[18:50:09] * mmu_man trying to subscribe haiku-commits again…
[18:50:21] <mmu_man> stupid ISP won't let the mails in for that
[18:50:27] <Begasus> right PulkoMandy just wanted to check out the latest atk
[18:51:27] <Begasus> latest version seems to rely on gobject_introspection which needs a recent glib2
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[18:53:32] <PulkoMandy> Begasus: so? just build with gcc7?
[18:55:10] <Begasus> that part is ok :) I'm just a noob trying to get things to run on gcc2 sometimes :)
[18:56:09] <PulkoMandy> well it's a waste of effort, but as you wish :>
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[18:56:55] <PulkoMandy> I'm porting Haiku to SPARC and writing drivers for 1990s printers, so...
[18:57:11] <Begas_VBox> removing the efforts :) previous version for atk seems to be ok for gcc2
[18:57:15] <PDP-7> SPARC mentioned!
[18:57:32] <PulkoMandy> Begas_VBox: just keep the previous recipe for gcc2 then :)
[18:57:57] <Maylay> wish i'd kept my sparc box
[18:59:03] <Begas_VBox> already at it PulkoMandy :)
[18:59:18] <geist> all the SPARC people come out of the woodwork
[19:00:51] <PDP-7> Back in the days I got so satified when SPARC came to my life and felt gigantic relief when SPARC left my life ...
[19:06:37] <Maylay> if only i'd had the space
[19:06:46] <Maylay> at the right time
[19:07:18] <Maylay> there was a while when there was a flood of sparc stuff being surplussed
[19:08:11] <Maylay> basically only for shipping cost
[19:11:51] <Begasus> k ... PR created for atk, bbl
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[19:17:22] <Oishika> Hi, I'm working on adding a padblocker(touchpad preferences) to the source code. I am unable to understand how to add it to the source code. Any help would be appreciated.
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[19:31:39] <extrowerk> rebuilding pyqt again, without gl then :(
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[19:46:15] <pranali> PulkoMandy: ping
[19:46:43] <PulkoMandy> yes
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[19:47:25] <pranali> PulkoMandy: I see a comment on https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/6921 asking about why the patch for the issue has commits. Do I need to do any changes on the patches?
[19:47:34] <pranali> *3 commits
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[19:48:26] <PulkoMandy> yes, apparently it would be better to merge the renaming into the two other changes?
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[19:51:03] <pranali> PulkoMandy: ok, so how should I go about that? Should I squash the existing 3 commits into a single new commit or should I ammend the existing 2 commits and add the renaming changes to them and open new patches?
[19:51:14] <extrowerk> Begasus: still on?
[19:51:23] <PulkoMandy> I think squashing all 3 together is easier
[19:51:39] <PulkoMandy> and you can reuse the change id from the first commit (so in Gerrit it shows as an update of that)
[19:51:50] <PulkoMandy> then you can "abandon" the two other changes in Gerrit
[19:52:46] <pranali> PulkoMandy: ok, let me try that.
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[19:53:12] <mmu_man> Diver: how about a PR on https://github.com/mmuman/HaikuThemeManager/ ? :D
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[19:56:21] <Oishika> Pulko Mandy: ping
[19:57:30] <mmu_man> Diver: merged
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[19:57:42] <PulkoMandy> Oishika: no space in my nickname otherwise it doesn't work
[19:57:53] <PulkoMandy> also don't just write "ping", ask your question :)
[19:58:03] <Oishika> Sure thanks!
[19:58:11] <Oishika> I'm trying the padblocker.
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[19:58:41] <Oishika> Not sure how the Jamfiles work. Also not very sure how to incorporate it in the base install.
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[19:59:49] <PulkoMandy> the Jamfiles define what to build
[20:00:15] <PulkoMandy> padblocker is an input server filter, so it should go in src/add-ons/input_server/filters/padblocker
[20:00:38] <PulkoMandy> and you can look at the other directories next to that for an idea of how the Jamfiles are made
[20:00:51] <PulkoMandy> you also need to add it to src/add-ons/input_server/filters/Jamfile so the buildsystem notices it
[20:01:29] <Diver> mmu_man: thanks :)
[20:01:32] <PulkoMandy> for adding it to the image, at first the easiest will be to do that in build/jam/UserBuildConfig, there are two files UserBuildConfig.readme and .sample in the same directory explaining how this works
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[20:05:50] <Oishika> Okay sure thing. Also, could you verify if my understanding of the implementation is okay. The user defines the padblocking time throught the slider and that value is updated in the padblocking settings file.
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[20:11:42] <PulkoMandy> yes
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[20:26:32] <Vidrep_64> Hi
[20:26:58] <PulkoMandy> hi
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[20:28:19] <pranali> PulkoMandy: ping
[20:28:30] <pranali> PulkoMandy: I updated https://review.haiku-os.org/c/haiku/+/1310, can you please check once?
[20:29:28] <pranali> PulkoMandy: i have also abandoned 1314 and 1316
[20:32:51] <pranali> PulkoMandy: are any further changes required here?
[20:33:57] <PulkoMandy> it looks fine now
[20:34:13] <PulkoMandy> as mentionned now we need to decide if we merge this now or if we wait after R1
[20:34:24] <PulkoMandy> have you looked into modifying WebKit and other apps too?
[20:34:58] <PulkoMandy> you can start the discussion on wether to merge this now on haiku-development at freelists dot org too, if you are subscribed there
[20:35:10] <PulkoMandy> (send a link to the change on Gerrit and explain the situation)
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[20:40:20] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: Not yet. though I want to start working on it as well.
[20:40:55] <Oishika> PulkoMandy: Do we need to provide a timeline for the outreachy applications? {unify input (mouse, keyboard, ...) preference applications project}
[20:43:09] <PulkoMandy> Oishika: yes, the Outreachy application asks for that
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[20:45:03] <Oishika> PulkoMandy: Is it more on lines of how I want to go about it or what the mentors and org expect?
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[20:46:09] <PulkoMandy> Oishika: it's to set your own goals, we will do the reviews of the project accordingly to see if the goals were met, and if not, what did go wrong
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[20:48:37] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: Ping. I have a query regarding my outreachy application as well.
[20:48:48] <PulkoMandy> sure, don't ask to ask :)
[20:50:07] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: I am interested in the API documentation project, however, after working on the last issue I am also quite interested in more hands-on work. And now I am a bit confused.
[20:51:21] <PulkoMandy> well, I can't chose a project for you
[20:51:24] <Oishika> PulkoMandy: Thanks! I implemented the slider and added the padblocker file to the input server and made a Jamfile also. But not I'm unable to understand how to take the input from the slider and pass it on to the padblocker or include the padblocker file in the touchpadpref.
[20:51:59] <PulkoMandy> Oishika: there is nothing special to do, once you have written the file, PadBlocker will use the setting, that's it
[20:52:21] <PulkoMandy> you have to add padblocker in the add-ons/input_server/filters/padblocker as I mentionned earlier
[20:52:36] <PulkoMandy> and add it to the image in UserBuildConfig also as I said earlier
[20:52:45] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: I also have a pretty good idea to work on the HTTP client library project, so I am trying to list weigh out both the projects
[20:53:08] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: yes, that's true
[20:53:37] <PulkoMandy> the HTTP client is not that easy because of threading problems, and complexity of the http spec (several RFCs to read)
[20:53:42] <PulkoMandy> if you can handle that, fine :)
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[20:55:13] <Oishika> PulkoMandy: Done with that. But concerned how to pass the slider's value input by the user.
[20:55:41] <PulkoMandy> just save it in the settings file. PadBlocker will read from there
[20:55:50] <PulkoMandy> which step are you missing exactly?
[20:56:52] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: ok, it might be a bit of a stretch within the scope of Outreachy then? In that case, probably I can start with the API documentation project for Outreachy (if my application gets accepted) and then later continue contributions with the other projects / issues, whichever stay open till then i guess!
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[20:57:48] <Oishika> PulkoMandy: I'm missing the step of writing the slider value to the settings file.
[20:58:18] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: I can keep contributing to issues / projects after Outreachy as well right?
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[21:36:11] <extrowerk> ok, it isn't the missing qtgl support then
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[21:44:50] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: ping
[21:45:28] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: Are there any Community-specific Questions that I need to answer in my Outreachy application?
[21:50:56] <PulkoMandy> no, but you can add whatever you want to say that did not fit in the other questions
[21:51:12] <pranali_> ok
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[21:55:25] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: I am applying for the API documentation project. From what I have observed within the repository so far, there are quite a large number of missing documentation. As such, I am thinking about the project timeline at the moment. What would be an ideal number of completed documentation that you as a project mentor would expect from an outreachy applicant?
[21:56:50] <PulkoMandy> I don't know, it really depends on your experience and how fast you work
[21:57:11] <PulkoMandy> it's very hard to estimate this, in fact, I could not even tell how long it would take if I did it myself
[21:57:34] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: The ideal target for me is to complete all missing documentation, however, realistically taking into consideration successive iterations, review and merge times I am quite unsure about what the actual timeline would look like for this.
[21:58:34] <PulkoMandy> I don't know either
[21:59:05] <PulkoMandy> ideally, you would document one file before submitting your application to see how long that takes, and do a multiplication
[21:59:14] <PulkoMandy> that's inaccurate but hard to have a better guess
[21:59:23] <PulkoMandy> however, it's a bit late to think about that now
[21:59:51] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: I expect to contribute a few documentation work before the actual start of the outreachy work period so that I am upto speed with the documentation work. However, for successive iterations I expect to be able to finish them a bit faster.
[22:00:51] <PulkoMandy> yes, the first ones will probably be slower, but if you target smaller/simpler files first, it will compensate
[22:04:17] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: so far I have started working on Url.h since yesterday after submitting the previous patch. So far, I have been able to do about 30% of the documentation work on it, however, that's mostly because it's taking ame a bit of time to undertand how to structure the documentation language for it.
[22:05:37] <pranali_> Going by this rate, I'm pretty sure I can bring down the time required to document a class to less than 2days per header.
[22:07:04] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: However, my ideal goal is to be able to finish atleast 1 document per day. However, I might be able to reach this speed only after a couple of weeks of writing the documentation
[22:08:23] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: considering that some files are big and some are pretty small, I think an average of 1.5-2days per document might be good to start with. What do you think?
[22:08:57] <pranali_> or does this sound to ambitious?
[22:11:06] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: actually that is a bit ambitious since I also need to consider the time for reviews and iterations
[22:11:54] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: maybe a realistic targret would be somewhere around 3 days per document.
[22:14:45] <pranali_> smaller files like UTF8 would probably take less than a day, but larger documents like URL would require a bit more time and effort
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[22:19:30] <B2IT> (binky) koffice no run
[22:22:12] <B2IT> (binky) why
[22:27:28] <PulkoMandy> yes, I think 3 days sounds reasonable
[22:27:37] <PulkoMandy> no worries if it ends up being longer or shorter
[22:28:08] <PulkoMandy> as there is no documentation (that's the point, right) you will have to read the C++ code to understand what some functions actually do, and in the worst case, write a test program to make sure
[22:28:21] <PulkoMandy> good news for you if you wanted more hands-on work, I guess :)
[22:28:43] <PulkoMandy> https://github.com/drcouzelis/HaikuApiExamples may be relevant too
[22:28:58] <PulkoMandy> but it's not up to date either... maybe an Outreachy project for next year
[22:29:38] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: great! :D
[22:29:46] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: sounds fun
[22:30:03] <PulkoMandy> there is always a lot to do
[22:30:37] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: I'll create a rough timeline based upon a 3day approximation
[22:30:58] <pranali_> we can update the timeline after submitting the application as well right?
[22:31:31] <PulkoMandy> well, the one in the application stays, but I think I never saw a student exactly stick to the original timeline
[22:32:00] <PulkoMandy> so don't worry too much about that, it's just to have a baseline when making the midterms and final review, so we can see what happened, what was unexpected, etc
[22:32:15] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: okk, makes sense.
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[22:32:55] <PulkoMandy> if it goes slower and the reason is something like "documenting some classes required a lot more work than expected, including writing examples, investigating the code, and sometimes finding a bug in the implementation", it's fine
[22:33:27] <PulkoMandy> if the reason is that you went for an unplanned vacation for two weeks or had exams that you didn't take into account in the timeline or something like that, well...
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[22:34:04] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: also I wanted to understand a bit about what would be your expectations from the project intern? Do you have anything specific in mind regarding what should be expected prior to the midterm and final reviews?
[22:34:18] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: yes, that's quite obvious
[22:34:35] <PulkoMandy> we expect obvious things... but every year we have people that don't get it
[22:35:01] <PulkoMandy> for example som ewant to do both outreachy and gsoc, or pretend working 40 hours a week on outreachy while also having school courses is fine
[22:35:11] <PulkoMandy> and it never works :)
[22:36:25] <PulkoMandy> so, we expect communication (here or on the mailing list) when you have a problem, some code (or documentation) contributions showing that you understand 1) C++ code 2) how to use Gerrit for code review and 3) that you can take code review comments into account without getting angry at people
[22:36:49] <PulkoMandy> (yes we also have people like that sometimes, who feel attacked when you try to understand your code or point out a design limitation)
[22:37:32] <PulkoMandy> be honest about your limitations (in skills, available time, whatever), and it should be fine
[22:38:13] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: hmm.. interesting. One of the reasons why I am applying to outreachy this time and didn't do the previous time is because I know I will have more than adequate time to contribute since my university courseworks and exams would be over.
[22:38:40] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: yes, i agree and completely understand the part about communication
[22:39:09] <PulkoMandy> yes, that's better. You get paid for the work so you need some available time, but you already registered the number of days during your application and they have a hard limit for it already
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[22:39:20] <PulkoMandy> so that's not something we have to check again at this stage
[22:40:25] <PulkoMandy> if there is less time available, it's fine to set up a more informal mentoring program, but it wouldn't be fair that you get paid, when a lot of other contributors are working on their free time
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[22:40:44] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: no matter whether I am able to do something on my own or am stuck on anything I will definitely reach out. Because if i don't it would be a waste of precious time and productivity.
[22:41:04] <PulkoMandy> yes, if you understand this, everything should work
[22:41:30] <PulkoMandy> we had some students who spent weeks trying to fix a problem by themselves, when it could have been avoided by just sending one email
[22:42:10] <PulkoMandy> I don't know, maybe they were thinking too much in terms of school assignments where you have to do everything yourself and show up at the end with a finished project
[22:42:14] <PulkoMandy> that's not the goal here
[22:43:13] <PulkoMandy> on funding: at Haiku we do paid contracts when it allows someone to focus full-time on Haiku, usually the pay rate is not very high (by our european standards, at least), the idea is that it keeps people safe (they can pay food and rents, basically) and allows them to work full time
[22:43:32] <PulkoMandy> but this does not happen very often, most of the work is done in evenings and weekends for free
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[22:44:12] <PulkoMandy> so it seems fair to apply something similar to Outreachy and GSoC interns
[22:44:45] <PulkoMandy> if you're not available full-time, we can still set up some kind of mentoring (more or less formal), but you don't get paid
[22:45:00] <pranali_> I recently have faced quite a few challenges while working in a team for a coursework and have experienced first hand the effects of what happens when team members don' communicate things on time and as such I am very particular about communicating clearly both my successes as well as failures so that the work doesn't stay stuck because of me.
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[22:45:28] <Zenja> Morning/Afternoon/Evening.
[22:47:08] <Zenja> Now this is bizarre - I run Haiku on MacBook Pro (Retina), and only have framebuffer driver (so 2880x1800).  This morning before work I did some Haiku dev, and shutdown.  This morning when I got to work and plugged laptop in, and 2nd screen via thunderbolt, the Mac startup chimed, and Haiku shutdown prompt was on 2nd screen.   Holy cow batman, Haiku suddenly appeared on 2nd screen via Thunderbolt port.  Never happened before, and highly
[22:47:09] <Zenja>  unlikely to see it happen again.
[22:47:35] <Zenja> This is most likely MBP EFI/BIOS playing a game or two, but it was fascinating to see Haiku on the 2nd screen for the first time ever.
[22:47:39] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: that's interesting. I haven't thought about paid contracts, but I do like the experience in the community so far, and would have to look for some paid engagements after September as part of my sandwich year course requirement. Maybe if I do a good enough job during the outreachy project I can apply for it.
[22:48:04] <PulkoMandy> yes
[22:48:13] <pranali_> For the moment, I'm happy just to be able to contribute and have a real world impact
[22:48:28] <PulkoMandy> I got involved in Haiku as a GSoC student in 2009. And in the summer 2010 I worked for Haiku as a contractor for 2 months
[22:49:04] <pranali_> Its a great learning experience for me and I am quite excited about Haiku.
[22:49:09] <PulkoMandy> and 4 years ago I was on an 1 year long contract, but that's the longest one we've ever had (support for the community with donations has been great during that time and allowed to renew the contract several times)
[22:50:09] <PulkoMandy> I can't make any commitment on wether it would work, but it's certainly an option if the internship goes well
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[22:50:59] <PulkoMandy> as for myself, after that contract ended I had to find another full-time job, which works well for me so I don't plan to leave it. Which means I don't need to get money from Haiku for what I do now :)
[22:51:05] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: that's ok. For now I just want to concentrate on the outreachy project and then see how things work out.
[22:51:19] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: nice!
[22:51:34] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: your journey is pretty inspiring! :)
[22:51:40] <PulkoMandy> yes, one step at a time :)
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[22:52:01] <PulkoMandy> and for completeness, I applied to Haiku GSoC in 2008 as well. I was the only student not accepted that year
[22:52:33] <PulkoMandy> but the application process was enough to get me started, and I got to know more about the project during the year, so in 2009 I could make a really great application
[22:52:53] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: great!
[22:53:08] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: any tips about how to submit a really great application?
[22:53:48] <PulkoMandy> well, "start early", but it's too late for that :)
[22:54:14] <PulkoMandy> in 2009 I worked on localization support for Haiku. Before that it was only available in english
[22:54:37] <PulkoMandy> this was not one of the listed GSoC ideas, it was just something that I found annoying when using Haiku, and I thought I could help solving it
[22:54:46] <PulkoMandy> the best motivation is fixing your own problems
[22:55:09] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: yup! I know. I wanted to start early but caught up with an overload of coursework at the university and I wanted to make sure once I start focussing on outreachy I focus on it completely.
[22:55:46] <PulkoMandy> no problem with that, in fact there is still time as we don't make a final decision on accepted students until late april
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[22:55:57] <PulkoMandy> so you can continue preparing during that time
[22:56:48] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: ahh! that's great! That would give me some more time to familiarize myself with the code! :)
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[22:58:26] <pranali_> PulkoMandy:  Do you have anything specific in mind regarding what should be expected prior to the midterm and final reviews?
[22:58:51] <PulkoMandy> not really, besides "a reasonable part of the work is done"
[22:59:23] <PulkoMandy> we will not look at this in terms of results, just check that you have put in enough time and effort
[23:00:00] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: okk, that makes sense.
[23:00:37] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: I'll submit the application accordingly.
[23:00:44] <PulkoMandy> there are always unexpected problems, things that don't go as expected, etc. Sometimes there are things that go better than expected
[23:01:26] <PulkoMandy> but, if you communicate on your problems, are able to understand the mentor's directions and explanations and apply them, it will be fine
[23:01:56] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: yup! that's true. It's good to have a mentor and a mentoring organization that understands this! :)
[23:02:08] <PulkoMandy> if you communicate frequently and regularly (at least once a week, I'd say, but more is better), we keep track of the work done and see that you're putting enough work. That's all we need
[23:02:47] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: heheheheh! I'm pretty sure I'd be pestering you quite a bit more than that! ;)
[23:03:07] <PulkoMandy> it's a bit difficult for people to understand this because you get paid a lot, so they expect a lot of work done
[23:03:13] <pranali_> I think in the past week alone I have pinged you a ton of times!
[23:03:16] <PulkoMandy> and unlike GSoC, this is our own money collected from donations
[23:04:05] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: yes! that does matter.
[23:04:12] <PulkoMandy> that's fine, if I want to be quiet I just shut down the IRC client :)
[23:05:33] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: do you ever do that? I always see you around in the channel whenever I come online. The only time I didn't see you available was once when I pinged in the channel pretty late in the mornig!
[23:05:50] <pranali_> *morning
[23:06:09] <PulkoMandy> I have a bouncer, so I'm always online but that doesn't mean I get all messages, they just get to my server
[23:06:23] <PulkoMandy> when I connect to it I get about a screenful of context from each channel
[23:06:31] <PulkoMandy> which is enough for quiet days
[23:06:38] <PulkoMandy> I do get private messages, however
[23:06:53] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: ahh!! nice!
[23:07:06] <jjpx> now that's a thing
[23:07:28] <PulkoMandy> I use znc for that, but there are other options, both paid and free
[23:07:34] <PulkoMandy> I know of Quassel and irccloud
[23:07:48] <PulkoMandy> znc is nice because it behaves like an IRC server, so I can connect to it with Vision
[23:07:58] <PulkoMandy> not sure about the two others, I never tried them
[23:08:10] <PulkoMandy> irccloud is a service thing so you don't have to set up your own server
[23:08:18] <jjpx> i used znc just for its sasl auth
[23:08:19] <PulkoMandy> it's a paid service but they have a free option
[23:08:21] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: i think need to setup something similar for myself. From time to time the irc webclient gets disconnected and I need to go through the logs manually then. a bouncer and an irc client would be helpful I guess.
[23:08:38] <PulkoMandy> yes, the webchat is quite limited
[23:08:44] <pranali_> interesting!
[23:08:50] <pranali_> I'll check them out!
[23:09:18] <PulkoMandy> also we have a Telegram group and apparently there is a Discord now, although I would prefer things to stay in fully open protocols systems like IRC
[23:09:44] <pranali_> this is why i like communities so much, you get to learn something new everyday! :)
[23:09:55] <PulkoMandy> it's unfortunate that IRC is not designed for modern mobile phone use with intermitent connections and you have to add a bouncer or some other tool to get it to better work in that context
[23:10:11] <PulkoMandy> we should migrate to XMPP someday, but we don't have a decent XMPP client in Haiku yet
[23:10:17] <PulkoMandy> (and there is a GSoC idea for this)
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[23:10:43] <krbtgt> if matrix wasn't a scalability disaster, it'd be great
[23:11:13] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: ok. I usually stay away from Telegram and WhatsApp groups since there tends to be a lot of noise in there occasionally. However, irc seems to be much much better of an option.
[23:11:14] <PulkoMandy> it's not a fully open/standard protocol AFAIK?
[23:11:37] <PulkoMandy> yes, I have the Telegram group muted and only check it occasionally
[23:12:13] <PulkoMandy> especially the spanish one as there is one guy who enjoy posting screenshots of anything remotely Haiku related, and relaying posts from the russian channel that I can't read
[23:12:26] <PulkoMandy> the english channel is not too busy, however
[23:12:40] <pranali_> heheh!
[23:12:48] <PulkoMandy> the Discord one is even less active, and I have enough Haiku disturbing me already :)
[23:13:11] <pranali_> i don't have much experience with Discord so I can't say much about that though
[23:13:12] <PulkoMandy> I use IRC only on my home laptop, but at work I still have my phone and the mailing lists
[23:13:26] <pranali_> ok
[23:13:29] <PulkoMandy> well... yet another chat system... :)
[23:13:46] <pranali_> that's true.
[23:13:50] <PulkoMandy> they have group vocal chat which works quite nicely (it's popular with gamers because of this)
[23:13:57] <B2IT> (binky) koffice no  run , why
[23:14:06] <pranali_> interesting!
[23:14:17] <pranali_> i should check it out as well!
[23:14:29] <PulkoMandy> but that doesn't fit my usage much. I like to listen to music, I get my share of people talking around in my daily work in the open plan office
[23:14:52] * pranali_ wonders about how many things there are that she needs to look into.
[23:15:09] <PulkoMandy> infinitely many :>
[23:15:13] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: hmm.. I get that!
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[23:15:17] <pranali_> heheh
[23:15:40] <PulkoMandy> I've been 10 years with Haiku and I'm still discovering nice (or less nice) things about C++
[23:16:20] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: Wow! that's a long time! I must admit, I'm quite a newby though.
[23:16:41] <blassin> are there any Haiku API bindings for other languages?
[23:16:49] <PulkoMandy> I got into writing drivers, working on webkit, on many 3rd party libraries and apps, on UI and UX design, documentation, ...
[23:17:03] <PulkoMandy> it's a nice project for that, the community is small so you get to easily work on a bit of everything
[23:17:13] <PulkoMandy> or focus in just some areas, as you prefer, of course
[23:18:05] <PulkoMandy> blassin: yes, there are python bindings (I know of Bethon, but there are several implementations), and an attempt to build generic bindings using I think SWIG and something called libcharlemagne, but this was not updated for a few years
[23:18:33] <blassin> ok thanks. I don't know Python :|
[23:18:33] <PulkoMandy> and there is yab which is a BASIC dialect with native GUI support
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[23:18:45] <PulkoMandy> were you looking for a specific language?
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[23:19:16] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: I have worked on Python quite a bit for my university projects and courseworks, however, not a lot on C++. I started with C++ a few months back when I was learning about how Buffers are implemented in Operating Systems. Well actually the push came from my professor about getting into a bit deeper work with CPP.
[23:19:17] <blassin> I know C#, Java, Ruby, Javascript and Elixir and was wondering if I could write an app in any of them
[23:19:34] <blassin> have a kind of dislike for C/C++ :D
[23:21:21] <PulkoMandy> mh... no bindings for those I fear. Java has the usual Swing and AWT so you could write apps using that but it doesn't count as bindings
[23:21:59] <blassin> not even sure what it would take to port .NET or something to it
[23:22:25] <blassin> and I guess the multithreaded aspect that made BeOS so advanced makes it even harder :(
[23:22:26] <jjpx> well you could start with python, it has a similar syuntax
[23:22:42] <PulkoMandy> pranali_: Python and C++ are a good combination. C++ can do a lot of low level and performance oriented work, while Python is great when you need flexible scripting, or very fast development and performance doesn't matter. They complete each other and cover almost everything you need
[23:22:44] <jjpx> and try to update that bethon
[23:23:01] <jjpx> *similar to ruby
[23:23:17] <blassin> yeah, I find it a bit... weird :D
[23:23:24] <PulkoMandy> I'm not the person to ask about the bindings anyway. I'm not up to date on that :)
[23:23:27] <blassin> significant whitespace and all that
[23:24:16] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: Yup! they are.
[23:24:19] <pranali_> :)
[23:24:43] <blassin> I find yab actually interesting http://yab.orgfree.com/
[23:24:47] <blassin> is this up to date?
[23:25:49] <PulkoMandy> probably, bbjimmy would know
[23:26:08] <PulkoMandy> and it's time for me to go to sleep, see you tomorrow :)
[23:26:38] <pranali_> PulkoMandy: good night! :)
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[23:58:28] <mmu_man> PulkoMandy: potential Haiku user? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS9nvKHDmBo

   March 25, 2019  
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