March 6, 2019 
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March 6, 2019 [00:03:56] <Vidrep_64> waddlesplash, sure[00:04:07] <waddlesplash> did you ever see the weird stalls?[00:04:50] <Vidrep_64> Yes, but usually when reading or writing to a NTFS formatted USB drive[00:05:10] *** MrHuggy <MrHuggy!~MrHuggy@adsl-178-78-88-138.karoo.kcom.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[00:05:31] <waddlesplash> right[00:05:35] <waddlesplash> so, see if those are resolved now[00:05:47] <waddlesplash> well, after hrev52966 that is[00:06:39] <Vidrep_64> I'm already on that hrev[00:07:05] <waddlesplash> well, excellent[00:07:07] <waddlesplash> so test away[00:17:26] *** leemon_ <leemon_!32075d55@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.7.93.85> has left #haiku[00:17:40] *** Prognoz <Prognoz!~Prognoz@181.231.204.129> has joined #haiku[00:30:09] *** orealis <orealis!~cre8or@178.51-174-179.customer.lyse.net> has quit IRC (Quit: yap...)[00:32:43] *** orealis <orealis!~cre8or@178.51-174-179.customer.lyse.net> has joined #haiku[00:35:44] <Vidrep_64> waddlesplash, now that your the XHCI expert, EHCI should be a breeze ;)[00:36:34] <waddlesplash> Vidrep_64: nope[00:36:42] <Vidrep_64> lol[00:36:49] <waddlesplash> EHCI is a totally different controller than XHCI, it has a completely different mode of operation[00:37:23] <waddlesplash> and since XHCI was introduced in 2009, virtually 99% of PCs made in the past 5-6 years are XHCI-only[00:37:38] <waddlesplash> so if someone else wants to fix EHCI, fine, but I sure won't be investing any time on it[00:37:48] *** pemdp <pemdp!~pedro@a95-94-254-121.cpe.netcabo.pt> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[00:40:09] <Vidrep_64> With the new webkit, I'm seeing the bottom part of the "Fundraising 2019" cut off, on the Haiku page[00:40:20] <waddlesplash> new regression then[00:41:42] *** embden <embden!~embden@185.202.212.202> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[00:43:24] <Vidrep_64> https://ibb.co/XLvBwzq[00:49:14] <hbelusca> hm interesting, the font used in the haiku webpage seen from the screenshot looks (almost?) exactly like the one seen from firefox on windows, except that the tail of the "g" letters[00:49:17] <hbelusca> is different.[00:51:55] <waddlesplash> because it's the same font...? :P[00:52:15] <tidux|webchat5> probably different hinting settings[00:52:24] *** tidux|webchat5 is now known as tidux|webchat[00:52:56] <hbelusca> hm I doubt?[00:54:46] *** FreeFull <FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover> has quit IRC (Quit: rebooting)[00:55:10] <hbelusca> https://chat.reactos.org/files/h37z1gb9ufd4friuontk5w6z1o/public?h=eYZDpWk5z7TpPQWavZ40yTWub2tyZgHqSDgQX2htIWE[00:55:47] <hbelusca> (above: firefox; below: excerpt from Vidrep_64's screenshot)[00:56:12] *** FreeFull <FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover> has joined #haiku[00:56:17] <hbelusca> I also note that the 'I' letter is different too (serif vs. sans serif)[01:00:27] *** brj <brj!~brj@219.91.254.71> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[01:01:14] *** brj <brj!~brj@219.91.254.71> has joined #haiku[01:08:34] *** brj <brj!~brj@219.91.254.71> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[01:09:35] *** brj <brj!~brj@203.187.233.113> has joined #haiku[01:16:30] *** FreeFull <FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover> has quit IRC (Quit: Rebooting again..)[01:17:52] *** FreeFull <FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover> has joined #haiku[01:18:56] *** hbelusca <hbelusca!~hbelusca@reactos/developer/hbelusca> has quit IRC (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)[01:37:41] *** jjpx <jjpx!~jjpx@gateway/tor-sasl/jjpx> has joined #haiku[01:45:25] *** Vidrep_64 <Vidrep_64!~vision@d75-156-156-137.abhsia.telus.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.10.3]: i've been blurred!)[01:45:30] <waddlesplash> Vidrep_64: how's the XHCI?[01:49:05] *** Vidrep_64 <Vidrep_64!~vision@d75-156-156-137.abhsia.telus.net> has joined #haiku[01:49:53] <Vidrep_64> waddlesplash, just tried copy, write and delete from a NTFS formatted USB 3 thumb drive[01:50:30] <Vidrep_64> Copy to desktop was fast. Deleting from the drive OK. Writing back to the drive, slow 211 KiB/s[01:50:48] <waddlesplash> yes, that part is known[01:50:50] <waddlesplash> NTFS bug[01:50:56] <waddlesplash> open ticket, somewhere[01:51:14] <brj> Hi all! I submitted a pull request on haiku/website yesterday and received some helpful feedback (which I promptly followed and submitted a few more commits). Is there anything else I should change? (PR link: https://git.io/fhxP9)[01:51:29] <waddlesplash> brj: just wait for PulkoMandy/humdinger to review tomorrow[01:51:36] <waddlesplash> Vidrep_64: but nothing locked up?[01:55:03] *** Vidrep_64 <Vidrep_64!~vision@d75-156-156-137.abhsia.telus.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[01:56:50] *** Vidrep_64 <Vidrep_64!~vision@d75-156-156-137.abhsia.telus.net> has joined #haiku[01:57:23] <Vidrep_64> waddlesplash, removing thumb drive after unmounting caused a KDL[01:57:32] <waddlesplash> message?[01:57:39] <Vidrep_64> photo?[01:59:23] <Vidrep_64> https://ibb.co/m0kwRZ4[02:00:32] <Vidrep_64> I have to go. Hope the photo helps[02:00:55] *** Vidrep_64 <Vidrep_64!~vision@d75-156-156-137.abhsia.telus.net> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[02:15:26] *** Rajagopalan <Rajagopalan!~Rajagopal@49.207.187.65> has joined #haiku[02:18:24] *** SimpleBrain <SimpleBrain!~simp@34.187.125.91.dyn.plus.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[02:18:41] *** SimpleBrain <SimpleBrain!~simp@34.187.125.91.dyn.plus.net> has joined #haiku[02:18:42] *** Rajagopalan <Rajagopalan!~Rajagopal@49.207.187.65> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[02:20:08] *** brj <brj!~brj@203.187.233.113> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[02:21:57] *** Maylay <Maylay!~gren@108-198-59-230.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Pipe Terminated)[02:24:36] *** Maylay <Maylay!~gren@108-198-59-230.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net> has joined #haiku[02:34:24] <waddlesplash> izaki: ping[02:36:03] *** Whothis <Whothis!~Who@45-17-58-132.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net> has joined #haiku[02:37:23] *** nighty- <nighty-!~nighty@b157153.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp> has joined #haiku[02:39:33] *** HAIKU-irker130 <HAIKU-irker130!~irker@walter.haiku-os.org> has quit IRC (Quit: transmission timeout)[02:55:18] *** Prognoz <Prognoz!~Prognoz@181.231.204.129> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[02:58:24] *** AlienSoldier <AlienSoldier!~AlienSold@modemcable087.210-56-74.mc.videotron.ca> has joined #haiku[03:05:57] *** leorize <leorize!~leorize@gateway/tor-sasl/leorize> has joined #haiku[03:14:37] *** ptrnull <ptrnull!~Mutter@1.81.65.101> has joined #haiku[03:18:59] *** _Dario_ <_Dario_!~dario@181.46.221.13> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[03:19:10] *** ptrnull <ptrnull!~Mutter@1.81.65.101> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[03:39:07] *** HaikuUser <HaikuUser!~vision@209-33-19-222.nlsncmtc01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net> has joined #haiku[03:39:17] *** HaikuUser2 <HaikuUser2!~vision@209-33-19-222.nlsncmtc01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net> has joined #haiku[03:39:39] *** HaikuUser2 <HaikuUser2!~vision@209-33-19-222.nlsncmtc01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[03:40:13] *** HaikuUser <HaikuUser!~vision@209-33-19-222.nlsncmtc01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[03:40:45] *** SeanTAllen <SeanTAllen!sid4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tpqermnjyinrwcxj> has joined #haiku[03:41:33] *** brj <brj!~brj@203.187.233.113> has joined #haiku[03:41:59] *** Kernel86 <Kernel86!~Kernel86@cpe-69-23-104-66.new.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[03:45:45] *** Kernel86 <Kernel86!~Kernel86@cpe-69-23-104-66.new.res.rr.com> has joined #haiku[03:48:54] *** jjpx <jjpx!~jjpx@gateway/tor-sasl/jjpx> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[03:50:13] *** liuyb1 <liuyb1!~liuyb@222.129.235.132> has joined #haiku[04:01:37] *** Amigori <Amigori!~amigori@209-112-213-52-radius.dynamic.acsalaska.net> has joined #haiku[04:08:02] *** Amigori_ <Amigori_!~amigori@209-112-213-52-radius.dynamic.acsalaska.net> has joined #haiku[04:09:02] *** Amigori <Amigori!~amigori@209-112-213-52-radius.dynamic.acsalaska.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[04:12:41] *** dewf <dewf!~dewf@cpe-68-206-152-179.elp.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[04:21:03] *** HAIKU-irker800 <HAIKU-irker800!~irker@walter.haiku-os.org> has joined #haiku[04:21:03] <HAIKU-irker800> haiku.master: mmuman * hrev52969 [1 commit] https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=ee55f593fdc1+%5E5f48948f7fae[04:21:03] <HAIKU-irker800> ee55f593fdc1: mime_db: Add text/x-webloc[04:21:03] *** ChanServ sets mode: +v HAIKU-irker800[04:22:39] *** AlienSoldier <AlienSoldier!~AlienSold@modemcable087.210-56-74.mc.videotron.ca> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.10.3]: i've been blurred!)[04:23:23] *** Amigori_ <Amigori_!~amigori@209-112-213-52-radius.dynamic.acsalaska.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[04:23:55] <izaki> pong[04:24:08] <izaki> awesome possum... I've also seen that[04:24:17] *** Glider_IRC__ <Glider_IRC__!~Glider_IR@37.173.210.218> has joined #haiku[04:25:00] *** Amigori <Amigori!~amigori@209-112-213-52-radius.dynamic.acsalaska.net> has joined #haiku[04:27:45] *** _Dario_ <_Dario_!dario@181.46.221.13> has joined #haiku[04:27:58] *** Glider_IRC_ <Glider_IRC_!~Glider_IR@37.169.113.10> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[04:34:11] *** Amigori <Amigori!~amigori@209-112-213-52-radius.dynamic.acsalaska.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[04:37:22] <waddlesplash> izaki: let me know if you can induce any xHCI stalls following my last commits[04:37:27] <waddlesplash> at least I can't[04:42:57] *** brj <brj!~brj@203.187.233.113> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[04:45:47] *** _Dario_ <_Dario_!dario@181.46.221.13> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[05:06:47] *** Amigori <Amigori!~amigori@209-112-213-52-radius.dynamic.acsalaska.net> has joined #haiku[05:10:22] *** Diver <Diver!~Diver__@91.220.181.217> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[05:10:23] *** Nozy <Nozy!~The@243.113.150.122.sta.dodo.net.au> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[05:10:24] *** GregCrain <GregCrain!~Manboy@c-68-34-68-27.hsd1.mi.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[05:10:44] *** Diver <Diver!~Diver__@91.220.181.217> has joined #haiku[05:10:48] *** Nozy <Nozy!~The@243.113.150.122.sta.dodo.net.au> has joined #haiku[05:10:51] *** GregCrain <GregCrain!~Manboy@c-68-34-68-27.hsd1.mi.comcast.net> has joined #haiku[05:15:41] <izaki> roger that, I'll try everything i can think of...[05:16:36] *** FreeFull <FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover> has quit IRC ()[05:23:57] <HAIKU-irker800> haiku.master: mmuman * hrev52970 [1 commit] https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=f82b4294d859+%5Eee55f593fdc1[05:23:58] <HAIKU-irker800> f82b4294d859: urlwrapper: add support for binary plist webloc files[05:35:51] *** freakazoid0223 <freakazoid0223!~matt@pool-108-52-159-210.phlapa.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[05:36:36] *** Amigori <Amigori!~amigori@209-112-213-52-radius.dynamic.acsalaska.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[05:42:09] *** kupi <kupi!uid212005@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcpsetxekehlpwze> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[05:48:32] *** dewf <dewf!~dewf@cpe-68-206-152-179.elp.res.rr.com> has joined #haiku[05:57:08] *** mmu_man <mmu_man!~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[06:10:35] *** Zenja <Zenja!~Zenja@110-174-168-144.static.tpgi.com.au> has joined #haiku[06:10:47] <Zenja> waddlesplash, are you awake?[06:12:31] *** leorize <leorize!~leorize@gateway/tor-sasl/leorize> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[06:17:25] <izaki> waddlesplash: I've plugged and unplugged everything I have around and it stays solid. I have managed to panic exfat volumes, but that is a different story. Awesome work![06:27:54] <Zenja> waddlesplash, talk to you in 16 hours. In case you check the logs, just letting you know that XHCI on USB2/3 rust disk, and USB2/3 flash disk works 100% without any issues on my box. Rock solid !!!!!!! I should treat you with pizza / beer.[06:28:07] *** Zenja <Zenja!~Zenja@110-174-168-144.static.tpgi.com.au> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.10.3]: i've been blurred!)[06:30:14] *** OmniMancer <OmniMancer!~Paul@101.100.137.239> has joined #haiku[06:31:51] *** brj <brj!~brj@2401:4900:16b3:138a:3ef8:62ff:fe36:ec46> has joined #haiku[06:39:07] *** brj <brj!~brj@2401:4900:16b3:138a:3ef8:62ff:fe36:ec46> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[06:50:35] *** rednul <rednul!~rednul@219.163.48.199.static.reverse.as19531.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[06:56:11] *** rednul <rednul!~rednul@219.163.48.199.static.reverse.as19531.net> has joined #haiku[07:13:29] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@103.40.199.125> has joined #haiku[07:25:34] *** SimpleBrain <SimpleBrain!~simp@34.187.125.91.dyn.plus.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[07:25:46] *** SimpleBrain <SimpleBrain!~simp@34.187.125.91.dyn.plus.net> has joined #haiku[07:32:29] *** preetpal <preetpal!~preetpal@202.164.53.117> has joined #haiku[07:34:02] *** brj <brj!~brj@2401:4900:16b3:138a:3ef8:62ff:fe36:ec46> has joined #haiku[07:51:04] *** Diver1 <Diver1!~Adium@2a02:2168:86c4:e400:9de2:f318:8b88:bc89> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[07:51:43] *** Diver1 <Diver1!~Adium@broadband-188-32-107-207.ip.moscow.rt.ru> has joined #haiku[07:51:43] *** Diver <Diver!~Diver__@91.220.181.217> has quit IRC (Disconnected by services)[07:51:43] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Diver1[07:52:06] *** Diver <Diver!~Diver__@91.220.181.217> has joined #haiku[07:52:46] *** embden <embden!~embden@185.202.212.202> has joined #haiku[07:57:47] *** brj <brj!~brj@2401:4900:16b3:138a:3ef8:62ff:fe36:ec46> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[08:12:55] <waddlesplash> :D[08:17:32] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@103.40.199.125> has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)[08:20:50] *** Amigori <Amigori!~amigori@209-112-213-52-radius.dynamic.acsalaska.net> has joined #haiku[08:24:02] *** HAIKU-irker800 <HAIKU-irker800!~irker@walter.haiku-os.org> has quit IRC (Quit: transmission timeout)[08:27:01] *** preetpal <preetpal!~preetpal@202.164.53.117> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[08:41:16] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@103.40.199.125> has joined #haiku[08:41:44] *** Amigori <Amigori!~amigori@209-112-213-52-radius.dynamic.acsalaska.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[08:51:31] <dewf> is there a constant defined somewhere for the system menubar height?[08:52:41] <superprower> Has anyone tried making compile_commands.json file for Haiku (compilation database, used by Language Server Protocol servers)? I know CMake can natively export them, and there is Bear for Make, but what can be done for Jam?[08:56:28] *** brj <brj!~brj@2401:4900:16b3:138a:3ef8:62ff:fe36:ec46> has joined #haiku[09:19:27] *** Diver <Diver!~Diver__@91.220.181.217> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[09:20:21] *** Diver <Diver!~Diver__@176.59.42.184> has joined #haiku[09:31:47] *** brj <brj!~brj@2401:4900:16b3:138a:3ef8:62ff:fe36:ec46> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[09:53:13] *** euver <euver!~Thunderbi@p200300DF7F4A7C002916C6E628B6E29C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #haiku[09:58:28] *** euver <euver!~Thunderbi@p200300DF7F4A7C002916C6E628B6E29C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: euver)[10:00:35] *** brj <brj!~brj@183.82.112.229> has joined #haiku[10:04:29] *** GeneralDuke <GeneralDuke!~Thunderbi@pdi29.internetdsl.tpnet.pl> has joined #haiku[11:02:29] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@103.40.199.125> has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)[11:03:57] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@103.40.199.125> has joined #haiku[11:03:58] *** Diver <Diver!~Diver__@176.59.42.184> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[11:04:31] *** Diver <Diver!~Diver__@91.220.181.217> has joined #haiku[11:10:13] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@103.40.199.125> has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)[11:11:53] *** yatendra1999 <yatendra1999!~mml@14.139.54.194> has joined #haiku[11:37:52] *** mmu_man <mmu_man!~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net> has joined #haiku[11:37:52] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[11:43:23] <Not-8d6a> [haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±1] https://git.io/fhpYm[11:43:24] <Not-8d6a> [haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes 417cc87 - kCHMViewer: add haiku icon theme[11:43:46] *** athira-selvan <athira-selvan!~androirc@2405:204:d083:205b:ac61:7379:8ca2:a6ea> has joined #haiku[11:45:17] *** swerner <swerner!~swerner@ipbcc2a6f2.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has joined #haiku[11:50:24] <athira-selvan> Hi, i was trying to implement public suffix list to filter cookies. Is libnspsl and libpsl same?[11:53:20] *** e1z0 <e1z0!~null@88.216.80.57> has quit IRC (Changing host)[11:53:20] *** e1z0 <e1z0!~null@netlinux/founder/e1z0> has joined #haiku[11:54:07] *** daniele_athome <daniele_athome!~daniele_a@2.236.49.9> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[11:55:36] *** daniele_athome <daniele_athome!~daniele_a@2.236.49.9> has joined #haiku[11:55:54] *** Megaf <Megaf!~Megaf@unaffiliated/megaf> has joined #haiku[12:00:08] *** Ptrus <Ptrus!Vision@67.219.239.116> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[12:01:54] *** Ptrus <Ptrus!Vision@67.219.239.116> has joined #haiku[12:03:47] *** brj <brj!~brj@183.82.112.229> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[12:04:22] *** Diver <Diver!~Diver__@91.220.181.217> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[12:05:03] *** Diver <Diver!~Diver__@176.59.52.160> has joined #haiku[12:07:39] *** S1mpleBrain <S1mpleBrain!~simp@34.187.125.91.dyn.plus.net> has joined #haiku[12:09:08] *** SimpleBrain <SimpleBrain!~simp@34.187.125.91.dyn.plus.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[12:20:12] *** yatendra1999 <yatendra1999!~mml@14.139.54.194> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)[12:25:16] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@103.40.199.125> has joined #haiku[12:28:27] *** liuyb1 <liuyb1!~liuyb@222.129.235.132> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[12:28:35] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@103.40.199.125> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[12:39:22] *** dewf <dewf!~dewf@cpe-68-206-152-179.elp.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[12:41:08] *** Diver <Diver!~Diver__@176.59.52.160> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[12:41:17] *** Diver <Diver!~Diver__@91.220.181.217> has joined #haiku[12:48:40] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@103.40.199.125> has joined #haiku[12:49:29] *** brj <brj!~brj@219.91.183.40> has joined #haiku[13:03:11] *** nighty- <nighty-!~nighty@b157153.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp> has quit IRC (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke)[13:07:47] <Not-8d6a> [haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±0] https://git.io/fhp3W[13:07:49] <Not-8d6a> [haikuports/haikuports] threedeyes 2e3db2d - NanoSVGTranslator: bump version[13:17:03] *** nighty- <nighty-!~nighty@b157153.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp> has joined #haiku[13:21:58] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@103.40.199.125> has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)[13:26:06] *** jjpx <jjpx!~jjpx@gateway/tor-sasl/jjpx> has joined #haiku[13:29:54] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@103.40.199.125> has joined #haiku[13:33:38] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@103.40.199.125> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[13:41:24] *** elara <elara!~pi@96.76.239.205> has joined #haiku[14:04:32] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@103.40.199.125> has joined #haiku[14:18:49] *** freakazoid0223 <freakazoid0223!~matt@pool-108-52-159-210.phlapa.fios.verizon.net> has joined #haiku[14:21:46] *** bos20k <bos20k!~bos20k@50-198-103-109-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has joined #haiku[14:28:19] *** Diver__ <Diver__!~Diver__@91.220.181.217> has joined #haiku[14:28:35] *** Rajagopalan <Rajagopalan!~Rajagopal@49.207.187.65> has joined #haiku[14:34:29] *** euver <euver!~Thunderbi@p200300DF7F4A7C0065259F5BF06F89EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #haiku[14:35:04] *** euver <euver!~Thunderbi@p200300DF7F4A7C0065259F5BF06F89EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[14:45:45] *** athira-selvan <athira-selvan!~androirc@2405:204:d083:205b:ac61:7379:8ca2:a6ea> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[14:48:51] *** kaminishi_ <kaminishi_!~kaminishi@79.103.185.244.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr> has joined #haiku[14:50:33] *** return0e <return0e!~return0e@host31-54-225-237.range31-54.btcentralplus.com> has joined #haiku[14:52:07] *** return0e_ <return0e_!~return0e@host31-54-225-237.range31-54.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[14:55:15] *** kaminishi_ is now known as kaminishi[14:55:38] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@103.40.199.125> has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)[14:58:50] *** Coolgeek <Coolgeek!~coolgeek@unaffiliated/coolgeek> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[15:01:47] *** OmniMancer <OmniMancer!~Paul@101.100.137.239> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[15:13:02] *** Coolgeek <Coolgeek!~coolgeek@unaffiliated/coolgeek> has joined #haiku[15:17:04] *** Megaf_ <Megaf_!~Megaf@unaffiliated/megaf> has joined #haiku[15:17:23] *** matthewstar <matthewstar!bcdace57@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.188.218.206.87> has joined #haiku[15:17:32] <matthewstar> hello ...[15:17:43] <matthewstar> my works are :[15:17:53] <matthewstar> 1) mail ware[15:18:07] <matthewstar> no: mal ware[15:18:17] <matthewstar> yes: mail ware[15:18:42] <matthewstar> mail ware : if you like send me an email ...[15:19:31] <B2IT> (AGMS) Hi matthewstar. Still have your collection in my BeShare files.[15:20:01] <matthewstar> B2IT: ok, thank you to sharing ...[15:20:30] <matthewstar> B2IT: if you like put all as mailware licence !!![15:21:49] *** SeanTAllen <SeanTAllen!sid4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tpqermnjyinrwcxj> has left #haiku[15:23:00] <matthewstar> there was once upon a time a beos folk you put his work mail ware ...[15:23:14] <matthewstar> it was incredible 4 me[15:23:33] <matthewstar> so i dream to put all mail ware[15:24:04] <B2IT> (AGMS) I just have a copy of your online chat as a Readme: [1/12 8:12] (1659) #haiku: <matthewstar> i would like to make you a gift ... it is my works ... make what you want ... https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NM9XRGxASYcmPKLaZ3eU2PMW2XaBdFay[15:25:57] <matthewstar> B2IT: yes, well, use it!!![15:26:19] <B2IT> (AGMS) OK, added your comments about mailware to the readme.[15:26:34] <matthewstar> all : i know i was in a dark time ...[15:27:05] <matthewstar> but i say : no more war[15:27:53] <matthewstar> i thought it was a bad world ...[15:28:13] *** liuyb1 <liuyb1!~liuyb@111.199.14.155> has joined #haiku[15:28:35] <matthewstar> so in past i retire all ...[15:28:55] <matthewstar> now i see you are good people so ...[15:29:08] <matthewstar> use it and[15:29:43] <matthewstar> i apologize 4 all to humdinger and ...[15:29:54] *** Megaf_ <Megaf_!~Megaf@unaffiliated/megaf> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[15:30:00] <B2IT> (AGMS) (got to go now, have a good day!)[15:30:07] <matthewstar> use it, and free to humdinger[15:30:16] <matthewstar> B2IT: thanks[15:31:32] <matthewstar> say humdinger the privacy is ok[15:33:05] <matthewstar> it is nice to know you are good people ...[15:33:56] *** elara <elara!~pi@96.76.239.205> has left #haiku[15:34:18] <matthewstar> with hexkey you can make every keymap you want ...[15:34:51] <matthewstar> under guihexkey[15:37:54] <matthewstar> what means agms?[15:40:14] <matthewstar> and just to talk : to put haiku as mail ware?[15:43:31] <matthewstar> soul is free!!![15:46:13] *** swerner <swerner!~swerner@ipbcc2a6f2.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[15:46:42] *** swerner <swerner!~swerner@ipbcc2a6f2.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has joined #haiku[15:49:53] <matthewstar> but i ask you : is there operating systems war?[15:50:04] *** liuyb1 <liuyb1!~liuyb@111.199.14.155> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[15:50:29] <matthewstar> soul is free[15:50:30] *** liuyb1 <liuyb1!~liuyb@111.199.14.155> has joined #haiku[15:54:47] <matthewstar> see you later ...[15:55:09] <matthewstar> if you want ... send me an email ...[15:55:27] <matthewstar> do you want my address?[15:57:46] <matthewstar> https://sprazzidiluce.net/wp/contatti/[15:57:50] *** matthewstar <matthewstar!bcdace57@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.188.218.206.87> has left #haiku[15:58:11] *** arfonzo <arfonzo!~arfonzo@2a03:b0c0:1:a1::54f:1001> has quit IRC (Quit: arfonzo)[15:58:27] *** arfonzo 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<matthewstar!bcdace57@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.188.218.206.87> has left #haiku[17:12:16] *** preetpal <preetpal!~preetpal@103.40.199.125> has joined #haiku[17:13:10] <brj> Hello all! I was looking to adding write support for btrfs. I mounted a btrfs partition and used the btrfs_shell to emulate current code. What are some other things I could do to familiarize myself with the way it works?[17:14:18] *** preetpal <preetpal!~preetpal@103.40.199.125> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[17:17:06] <izaki> I left one of my workstations running all night long, and the (USB) keyboard and trackball still worked in the morning[17:17:28] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@103.40.199.125> has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)[17:18:14] <izaki> That's amazing, because some days the keyboard would work, some others the trackball only... some others there was a panic... XHCI!!!![17:18:23] *** athira <athira!~athira@2405:204:d083:205b:ea:597:d050:2488> has joined #haiku[17:24:30] *** athira <athira!~athira@2405:204:d083:205b:ea:597:d050:2488> has quit IRC (Quit: athira)[17:26:22] *** HAIKU-Buildbot <HAIKU-Buildbot!~HAIKU-Bui@walter.haiku-os.org> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[17:28:18] *** GeneralDuke <GeneralDuke!~Thunderbi@pdi29.internetdsl.tpnet.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: GeneralDuke)[17:29:39] <waddlesplash> izaki: YAY![17:31:54] *** liuyb3 <liuyb3!~liuyb@111.199.14.155> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[17:37:07] <PulkoMandy> brj: hi! did you read the blog posts from the previous student who worked on it?[17:38:05] *** liuyb4 <liuyb4!~liuyb@111.199.14.155> has joined #haiku[17:39:41] *** SpiceGuid <SpiceGuid!~chatzilla@alyon-158-1-47-101.w90-53.abo.wanadoo.fr> has joined #haiku[17:39:54] *** Rajagopalan-Gang <Rajagopalan-Gang!~Rajagopal@49.207.187.65> has joined #haiku[17:42:33] *** Rajagopalan <Rajagopalan!~Rajagopal@49.207.187.65> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[17:42:36] *** liuyb <liuyb!~liuyb@111.199.9.34> has joined #haiku[17:42:42] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@103.40.199.125> has joined #haiku[17:44:22] *** liuyb4 <liuyb4!~liuyb@111.199.14.155> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[17:44:49] *** liuyb1 <liuyb1!~liuyb@111.199.9.34> has joined #haiku[17:45:27] *** mmu_man <mmu_man!~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[17:47:07] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@103.40.199.125> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[17:47:48] *** liuyb <liuyb!~liuyb@111.199.9.34> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[17:50:53] *** liuyb1 <liuyb1!~liuyb@111.199.9.34> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[17:51:06] <brj> PulkoMandy: yes I've thoroughly read blog posts for week #1-#3 which mostly talk about fs_shell. I've skimmed over the other 4 articles. I've understood that directory read/write was added, which does not actually involve creating links but rather inserting inodes. In the last post, there is a section named "what are left to do". It says tree balance functions (split, merge) are yet to be implemented. I shall[17:51:08] <brj> try doing that...[17:51:16] <izaki> If I may play devil's advocate here... Extending EXT{3,4} support would have huge benefits. BTRFS is definitely interesting, but from a practical point of view not so widespread[17:51:28] <izaki> Also... ZFS[17:51:34] * izaki now runs and hides[17:51:58] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@2405:205:4324:cf87:c82e:2b57:b6e1:2232> has joined #haiku[17:52:00] *** S1mpleBrain <S1mpleBrain!~simp@34.187.125.91.dyn.plus.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[17:52:11] *** SimpleBrain <SimpleBrain!~simp@34.187.125.91.dyn.plus.net> has joined #haiku[17:52:27] <PulkoMandy> we dont' like ext because it lacks proper support for xattrs, and other problems[17:53:53] <PulkoMandy> brj: the fs_shell already has the commands to create files and the like, I think? but they would probably crash or hopefully tell you that something is missing?[17:56:57] <brj> PulkoMandy: yes, there's mkindex which says "Error: Failed to create index "hello": Read-only file system"[17:57:09] <brj> upon entering `mkindex hello`[17:57:54] <PulkoMandy> so now you have to trace that in the filesystem code. Are there TRACE macros you can enable?[17:58:00] <PulkoMandy> if not it may be a good idea to add that[18:02:41] <brj> PulkoMandy yes there's trace macros in Inode.cpp[18:03:12] <PulkoMandy> usually there is a TRACE_something to #define at the top of the file to enable them[18:03:31] <PulkoMandy> so, enable as much as you can in the btrfs code, and if needed, in parts of the fs_shell and vfs[18:03:41] <PulkoMandy> then it will tell you a lot more about what it's trying to do[18:04:20] <brj> Do I have to run configure again after I uncomment #define TRACE?[18:04:31] <brj> Or is it enough to just run Jam?[18:04:55] <PulkoMandy> just run jam[18:05:33] <PulkoMandy> you need to re-run configure only if you change the configure script (almost never) or in case you update your system (move to a new compiler version for example)[18:06:37] *** mmu_man <mmu_man!~revol@sdi.iut-valence.fr> has joined #haiku[18:06:37] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[18:10:57] *** Rajagopalan-Gang is now known as Rajagopalan[18:11:12] *** B2IT <B2IT!B2IT@www.agmsmith.ca> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.10.3]: i've been blurred!)[18:12:13] *** SpiceGuid_ <SpiceGuid_!~chatzilla@alyon-158-1-43-168.w90-53.abo.wanadoo.fr> has joined #haiku[18:12:27] <brj> PulkoMandy I see, thank you very much! It was very informative[18:12:52] <brj> I uncommented TRACE #defines and ran Jam again[18:13:03] *** SpiceGuid <SpiceGuid!~chatzilla@alyon-158-1-47-101.w90-53.abo.wanadoo.fr> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[18:13:04] <brj> now I get verbose information upon entering commands[18:14:47] *** B2IT <B2IT!B2IT@www.agmsmith.ca> has joined #haiku[18:14:47] *** ChanServ sets mode: +v B2IT[18:15:21] <brj> mkdir fails now, but it says it couldn't find entry with hash and gives a specific function name[18:15:26] <brj> I shall look into it[18:15:57] <brj> Thank you for the help!![18:20:48] *** bleb <bleb!~cm@207.148.20.110> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[18:23:08] *** MrHuggy <MrHuggy!~MrHuggy@adsl-178-78-88-138.karoo.kcom.com> has joined #haiku[18:23:15] *** kaminishi <kaminishi!~kaminishi@79.103.185.244.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[18:23:36] *** kaminishi <kaminishi!~kaminishi@79.103.185.244.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr> has joined #haiku[18:29:36] *** Dariost <Dariost!~Dariost@151.20.208.13> has joined #haiku[18:33:47] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@2405:205:4324:cf87:c82e:2b57:b6e1:2232> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[18:35:12] *** jjpx <jjpx!~jjpx@gateway/tor-sasl/jjpx> has joined #haiku[18:38:30] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@103.40.199.125> has joined #haiku[18:40:32] *** nighty- <nighty-!~nighty@b157153.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp> has quit IRC (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke)[18:44:07] *** tqh <tqh!~frho@82-183-10-104.customers.ownit.se> has joined #haiku[18:44:07] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o tqh[18:51:35] *** Prognoz <Prognoz!~Prognoz@181.231.204.129> has joined #haiku[18:53:23] *** brj <brj!~brj@123.201.163.45> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[18:53:27] <Rajagopalan> huh Pulkomandy[18:53:33] <PulkoMandy> hi[18:53:34] <Rajagopalan> where do i find mouse APIs[18:53:48] <Rajagopalan> like getting current mouse position[18:54:22] <PulkoMandy> in BView, there are MouseMoved and MouseDown calls to notify the application of mouse events[18:54:50] <Rajagopalan> Hmm[18:54:53] <Rajagopalan> One more question[18:55:23] <Rajagopalan> ill frame and get back to you :)[18:56:33] *** mmu_man <mmu_man!~revol@sdi.iut-valence.fr> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[18:57:42] *** SpiceGuid_ <SpiceGuid_!~chatzilla@alyon-158-1-43-168.w90-53.abo.wanadoo.fr> has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [SeaMonkey 2.49.4/20180713174829])[19:14:38] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@103.40.199.125> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[19:21:07] <Not-8d6a> [haikuports/haikuports] diversys pushed 1 commit to master [+2/-2/±0] https://git.io/fhp8H[19:21:08] <Not-8d6a> [haikuports/haikuports] diversys 4c8355c - LibreOffice: bump version[19:22:48] *** mmu_man <mmu_man!~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net> has joined #haiku[19:22:48] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[19:24:09] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@157.39.195.121> has joined #haiku[19:25:45] <Not-8d6a> [haikuports/haikuports] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/fhp8A[19:25:47] <Not-8d6a> [haikuports/haikuports] Begasus 0d82ee3 - atftp, fix recipe (#3666)[19:27:08] *** mmu_man <mmu_man!~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[19:27:20] *** Whothis <Whothis!~Who@45-17-58-132.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net> has left #haiku ("Closing Window")[19:27:21] <Not-8d6a> [haikuports/haikuports] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [+3/-0/±0] https://git.io/fhp8p[19:27:23] <Not-8d6a> [haikuports/haikuports] nielx efbcd73 - Rust: add recipe for 1.32.0 (#3639)[19:27:31] *** Begasus <Begasus!~begasus@ptr-4qba4eacnq3w2pku8p8.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined #haiku[19:27:51] <Begasus> g'evening peeps[19:31:40] *** Begas_VBox <Begas_VBox!~Begasus@d54C05BEA.access.telenet.be> has joined #haiku[19:35:13] <Rajagopalan> good night :) begasus[19:36:05] <Begasus> hi Rajagopalan :)[19:39:08] *** lorglas <lorglas!~lorglas@pD9E1D9D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #haiku[19:41:00] *** gouchi <gouchi!~gouchi@unaffiliated/gouchi> has joined #haiku[19:44:48] *** Barrett <Barrett!~barrett@unaffiliated/barrett> has joined #haiku[19:45:28] *** lorglas <lorglas!~lorglas@pD9E1D9D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.10.3]: i've been blurred!)[19:45:41] *** athira <athira!~androirc@2405:204:d286:ca83:76b4:3484:21fd:3a1> has joined #haiku[19:50:10] *** athira <athira!~androirc@2405:204:d286:ca83:76b4:3484:21fd:3a1> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[19:50:27] *** Prognoz <Prognoz!~Prognoz@181.231.204.129> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[19:52:07] *** Prognoz <Prognoz!~Prognoz@181.231.204.129> has joined #haiku[19:55:21] *** Athira <Athira!~androirc@2405:204:d286:ca83:76b4:3484:21fd:3a1> has joined #haiku[19:56:48] <Rajagopalan> huh Pulkomandy i am going to sleep now[19:56:59] <PulkoMandy> good night :)[19:56:59] <Rajagopalan> I will continue on monday[19:57:09] <Rajagopalan> exams :\[19:57:14] <Rajagopalan> good night :)[19:57:54] <Barrett> files on read only volumes can't be reordered[19:57:57] <Barrett> literally[19:58:15] *** Rajagopalan <Rajagopalan!~Rajagopal@49.207.187.65> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[19:58:15] <Barrett> that doesn't make sense[19:58:21] <waddlesplash> what, in icon mode?[19:58:31] <waddlesplash> well yes, the positions are stored as attributes[19:58:35] <Barrett> obviously[19:58:51] <waddlesplash> dunno why you say it doesn't make sense[19:58:58] <Barrett> doesn't you guys begin to see why there are more cons than pros in storing attrs in the fs?[19:59:22] <Barrett> because ordering isn't a feature of the fs, but of the GUI[19:59:24] <DHowett> i mean, that's an awfully broad statement to make to the entire haiku development community over such a small thing, no?[19:59:52] <DHowett> like, that's like saying "i think haiku was a mistake you should all pack it up and leave" because it opened a window in the wrong place on the screen[20:00:35] <DHowett> OS X uses a similar design: icon positions are stored in a file called ".DS_Store" in the directory whose view settings have been changed[20:00:59] <DHowett> while it's a bit of an inconvenience that you can't reorder a read-only directory, OS X maintains that the directory's layout _is an inherent property of the directory_[20:01:15] <DHowett> which fits their spatial file manager's paradigm[20:01:23] <izaki> IMHO storing position in attr is a beautiful solution... I very much dislike the DS_Store leftovers everytime I use macOS (as in tacos)[20:01:32] <waddlesplash> exactly, so OSX also can't reorder things either[20:01:47] <waddlesplash> they just use a file to store the attrs in, rather them being a disk construct[20:01:57] <PulkoMandy> wouldn't want the OS or whatever to persistently mess with the painfully laid out icons in a directory...[20:02:16] <Barrett> waddlesplash, it seems, when it's convenient to you "others does this way" is an argument, when it isn't, that argument don't work ;)[20:02:19] <PulkoMandy> if I mount a disk read only I usually have good reasons for that[20:02:34] <Barrett> "OSX does this way" IS NOT an argument.[20:02:37] <waddlesplash> Barrett: that was my second argument; the first was "it makes sense and is consistent"[20:02:44] <izaki> So, the allergy to EXT4 comes from the fact that you can only store attrs that fit in the block[20:02:46] <waddlesplash> uh, false, it absolutely is; it's not always a good one[20:02:47] <izaki> ?[20:02:50] <waddlesplash> izaki: yes[20:03:03] *** Athira <Athira!~androirc@2405:204:d286:ca83:76b4:3484:21fd:3a1> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[20:03:06] <izaki> Sure, but btrfs does the same, doesn't it/[20:03:07] <PulkoMandy> yes, they have a limited size for them, it's the only FS with that limitation[20:03:07] <izaki> ?[20:03:15] <waddlesplash> izaki: no, btrfs does not[20:03:17] <Barrett> PulkoMandy, there are various situations where you don't have other choice than mounting read only[20:03:20] <waddlesplash> and XFS does not either[20:03:26] <krbtgt> as a user of a spatial file manager, the layout of the filesystem to me IS the filesystem[20:03:28] <izaki> I have to look that up[20:03:30] <krbtgt> at the high user level[20:03:31] <Barrett> like dvds[20:03:40] <PulkoMandy> also, ext4 can run out of inodes on a 75% empty volume[20:03:42] <waddlesplash> Barrett: the entire point of attributes is that they are associated with the disk, not the file; so no matter what, you could not move things around[20:03:49] <waddlesplash> even if you stored them in a file[20:03:49] <PulkoMandy> who calls that "good enough" ?[20:04:01] <izaki> Yeah, I am not praising the filesystem, trying to understand the perspective[20:04:36] <Barrett> waddlesplash, the entire point of Haiku's attributes is that in 90s PCs were not enough performant to run an index server.[20:04:41] <Barrett> IMHO.[20:04:50] <Barrett> (the implementation, not the concept)[20:04:51] <izaki> Are they now?[20:05:03] <PulkoMandy> izaki: essentially ext4 is trying to shoehorn modern features onto ext2 bases. It is not nice, it is not properly documented (I tried to add 64bit FS support to our driver, and the doc for that says "well, whatever was 32bit before is 64bit in this mode")[20:05:05] <Barrett> izaki, OS X works right?[20:05:24] <izaki> works, right... Not always works right ;)[20:05:48] <Barrett> that statement apply to everything ;)[20:05:55] <Barrett> even the sun doesn't work always right.[20:05:59] <izaki> I just thought of t-shirts[20:06:20] <izaki> Or my next commit message[20:07:34] <waddlesplash> Barrett: no, that's just plain false[20:07:53] <Barrett> lol[20:08:00] * izaki notes that indeed BTRFS is better[20:08:00] <Barrett> yeah :)[20:08:23] * izaki also notes that he should put his nightmares away and give xfs a chance[20:08:26] <Barrett> I had a talk with someone who put a lot of work in the Haiku's bfs implementation[20:08:34] <Barrett> and that person didn't say me "it is plain false"[20:08:47] <Barrett> I will continue to laugh while I cook.[20:09:19] <Barrett> no, wait, I have one more thing to say[20:10:17] <waddlesplash> BTRFS is not better[20:10:26] <waddlesplash> it is totally insane in a number of ways[20:10:51] <Barrett> waddlesplash, I encourage you to stop thinking in terms of "everything Be did is right".[20:11:01] <waddlesplash> I don't?[20:11:10] <waddlesplash> XFS > BFS > BTRFS, imo[20:11:19] <Barrett> almost never as far as I can tell[20:11:28] <DHowett> zfs zfs zfs zfs zfs[20:11:31] <Barrett> but that's my hopinion[20:11:31] <PulkoMandy> I encourage you to not fall for Barrett's unconstructive attacks and spend your energy on something better :/[20:11:41] <PulkoMandy> good night, I'm going to leave for a while again[20:11:43] <Barrett> the truth it's that every fs is designed for certain priorities[20:12:08] <CompanionCube> DHowett: ZFS doesn't have the BFS tags and such, though you could likely graft it on to the design...[20:12:23] <Barrett> PulkoMandy, it seems it wasn't me that replied with "it's plain false".[20:13:07] <Barrett> and I'm of course constructive, I expressed just my hopinion about how to manage attributes.[20:13:29] <waddlesplash> yes, I am busy atm, back properly in 10[20:13:30] <DHowett> CompanionCube: yeah, totally. a hypothetical zfs integration on Haiku could allocate a new ZAP leaf type to store core bfs attrs and use sa or the xattr directory to store custom attributes[20:14:09] <DHowett> CompanionCube: disclaimer: design not fully fleshed out, of course. the windows port (i've been working on this part) should be storing windows-specific things in zap leaves as well (like "reparse point" data)[20:14:34] <CompanionCube> you work on ZFSin? neat.[20:15:08] <Barrett> DHowett, very interesting[20:15:38] <Barrett> however, I'm not against storing the attrs in the fs, I'm more against implementing queries into it[20:15:48] <DHowett> CompanionCube: still prepping my first code contribution, but I'm definitely trying to become an active participant[20:15:52] <Barrett> but I think read only volumes should be sortable[20:17:38] <Barrett> wheter it is a Tracker problem it's another question.[20:25:07] *** lorglas <lorglas!~vision@pD9E1D9D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #haiku[20:26:48] <lorglas> hi[20:26:52] *** FreeFull <FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover> has joined #haiku[20:27:17] <waddlesplash> 2:04 PM <Barrett> waddlesplash, the entire point of Haiku's attributes is that in 90s PCs were not enough performant to run an index server.[20:27:26] <waddlesplash> Barrett: the very existence of BFS indexes disproves this[20:28:16] <waddlesplash> further, even if they were "not performant enough", it does not mean that attributes are a bad choice[20:28:24] <Barrett> waddlesplash, you know that originally BeOS had an index server, and then later they decided to put it into the fs (when the new BeFS was developed by Giampaolo, the obfs was instead developed by Schillings)[20:28:53] <waddlesplash> yes, exactly[20:29:12] <Barrett> AFAIK it was merely a performance problem.[20:29:24] <waddlesplash> I doubt that, but even if it was, so what?[20:29:25] <Barrett> but I can't cite my source, so, whatever :)[20:29:38] <waddlesplash> the idea of attributes associated with files is not a Be-specific one[20:29:47] <waddlesplash> XFS also has it of course, and Apple has it via .DS_Store[20:30:03] *** amritpal <amritpal!~amritpal@157.39.195.121> has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)[20:30:05] <Barrett> waddlesplash, yeah, also many other fs-es[20:30:12] <waddlesplash> you can add arbitrary tags to files on most filesystems, including NTFS[20:30:15] <waddlesplash> and then search by them[20:30:26] <Barrett> I may have been more precise in saying that I meant the whole thing (attrs + queries)[20:30:46] <waddlesplash> queries are getting introduced to filesystems these days[20:30:50] <Barrett> waddlesplash, but I'm not interested in having a debate with you honestly.[20:30:57] <waddlesplash> I think Facebook had some experiment making FSes SQL-queryable[20:31:10] <waddlesplash> and then there is work to make Postgres a real filesystem and run Linux on a Postgres DB FS[20:31:22] <Barrett> waddlesplash, AFAIK the modern trend is to remove as much as possible from kernel land[20:31:33] <Barrett> now imagine Haiku had a microkernel, and fs-es were user space[20:31:33] <waddlesplash> Barrett: tell that to Linux moving modesetting into the kernel[20:31:38] <Barrett> then, the thing may work[20:31:44] <waddlesplash> ?![20:31:56] <waddlesplash> the thing can work either way, what difference does it make where it is?[20:31:58] <Barrett> that would be a completely different situation.[20:32:01] <waddlesplash> how?[20:32:18] <Barrett> a lot of difference, security, inherent complexity of the fs design[20:32:22] <waddlesplash> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN6IwNriwHc[20:32:38] <waddlesplash> see? people are starting to use literal databases as filesystems[20:32:48] <waddlesplash> Barrett: BFS is not that complex...?[20:32:50] <waddlesplash> neither is XFS[20:33:02] <waddlesplash> in fact BTRFS and ZFS are more complicated than either of these[20:33:45] <Barrett> but they give advantages and strongness that BFS doesn't even need, and will never see.[20:34:10] <Barrett> I just think the BFS was a compromise[20:34:18] <Barrett> I think we can do better[20:34:23] <Barrett> not interested in other debates[20:34:29] <waddlesplash> XFS performance shows that we can indeed do better[20:34:40] <waddlesplash> but XFS attribute performance shows we have no need to abandon the paradigm[20:35:16] <Barrett> you know XFS is a 25 years old FS, right?[20:35:31] <waddlesplash> err ... sort of?[20:35:38] <waddlesplash> they have been making revisions to the on-disk structure[20:35:47] <Barrett> sure[20:35:49] <waddlesplash> in fact XFS performance is second to only a few other FSes at this point[20:36:01] <waddlesplash> so, if you think you can do better than XFS, let me know when you have the benchmarks[20:36:19] <Barrett> performance depends on the situation[20:36:41] <Barrett> there are situations and configurations where ZFS can be a very bad choice[20:36:41] <waddlesplash> XFS performance is good no matter the situation...[20:36:46] <waddlesplash> sure, of course[20:36:54] <Barrett> waddlesplash, so why doesn't the world use it?[20:37:00] <waddlesplash> use what? XFS?[20:37:07] <waddlesplash> uh, many Linux distros use it by default, yes[20:37:20] <waddlesplash> in fact more and more are switching to it from ext4[20:37:38] <Barrett> why the Be devs didn't pick a XFS derivative rather than designing their own fs?[20:37:52] <waddlesplash> I don't know, ask them?[20:37:53] <Barrett> *instead of[20:38:52] *** eroken <eroken!~ernest@41.203.78.173> has joined #haiku[20:38:58] <Barrett> AFAIK mainstream distros don't use XFS[20:39:13] <Barrett> but I'm not so behind the news, so the world may have changed[20:39:28] <waddlesplash> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2b4eq9/apparently_centos_7_uses_xfs_as_default_file/[20:39:44] <waddlesplash> CentOS 7 is, like, the second most used Linux distro?[20:40:03] <waddlesplash> at work, all our enterprise software deployments are on Linux[20:40:12] <waddlesplash> and we always use CentOS these days[20:40:15] <Barrett> on servers[20:40:21] <Barrett> not on desktops.[20:40:47] <Barrett> CentOS isn't generally used as a Desktop distro.[20:41:01] <waddlesplash> huh? we use that as our desktop distro too...[20:41:03] *** Dariost <Dariost!~Dariost@151.20.208.13> has quit IRC (Quit: Dariost)[20:41:09] <waddlesplash> in fact all our workstations there are CentOS[20:41:16] <waddlesplash> (except for the ones that are Windows)[20:41:30] <Barrett> I wouldn't work in a company like that ;)[20:41:41] <Barrett> distro freedom is the minimum.[20:41:44] <waddlesplash> RHEL also has it as default[20:42:01] <Barrett> and yes, I hate rpm-based things[20:42:07] <waddlesplash> ... the point of Haiku is that there aren't really "distros", and if there are, they all will have the same desktop environment, etc.[20:42:18] <waddlesplash> package manager, system interfaces, audio system, ...[20:42:24] *** Dariost <Dariost!~Dariost@151.20.208.13> has joined #haiku[20:42:31] <Barrett> waddlesplash, so, when we will switch to XFS?[20:42:41] <waddlesplash> when someone writes us a driver...?[20:42:45] <Barrett> cool[20:42:50] <waddlesplash> in fact we have had a GSoC project to write an XFS driver for a while[20:42:55] <Barrett> you would vote +1 if I write an implementation?[20:42:59] <waddlesplash> yes[20:43:02] <Barrett> cool.[20:43:07] <waddlesplash> what is your point?[20:43:12] <waddlesplash> well[20:43:21] <waddlesplash> actually XFS' attribute typing does not precisely match to ours[20:43:29] <waddlesplash> we might need to think carefully about that[20:43:35] <Barrett> hehe[20:43:47] <waddlesplash> although ... actually, I think that may just be Linux's limitation[20:43:53] <Barrett> and you would not have querying, so an index server is a must[20:44:08] <Barrett> I think XFS support exattrs and nothing more[20:44:15] <Barrett> but I may be wrong as well.[20:44:51] <zdykstra> Barrett: are you seriously asking why an OS originally created/designed in the mid 90's wasn't using a propietary SGI filesystem as the base for it's OS?[20:44:59] <waddlesplash> "Files, symbolic links, and directories can have up to two block maps, or “forks”, which associate filesystems blockswith a particular file or directory. The “attribute fork” tracks blocks used to store and index extended attributes,whereas the “data fork” tracks file data blocks, symbolic link targets, or directory blocks, depending on the type ofthe inode record."[20:45:01] <waddlesplash> http://ftp.ntu.edu.tw/linux/utils/fs/xfs/docs/xfs_filesystem_structure.pdf[20:45:10] <Barrett> zdykstra, no[20:45:11] <waddlesplash> Barrett: ^^ so there you go, Xattrs on XFS are indexed[20:45:30] <waddlesplash> "store *and index* extended attributes"[20:45:55] <waddlesplash> Linux has no interface to use these indexes beyond "opendir/readdir"[20:46:03] <waddlesplash> but we can of course wire up our standard query feature[20:46:12] <Barrett> it needs to be investigated[20:46:19] *** swerner <swerner!~swerner@ipbcc2a6f2.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has joined #haiku[20:46:50] <zdykstra> need feels like a strong word to use in a project that's already tight on developer time[20:46:59] <waddlesplash> +1 to zdykstra[20:47:26] <Barrett> zdykstra, do you realize I am a developer, right?[20:47:26] <waddlesplash> Barrett: but more seriously, my original point stands: attributes+indexes is not a "90s thing" which we should abandon[20:47:27] *** GeekShadow <GeekShadow!~antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[20:47:35] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Barrett[20:47:50] <zdykstra> yes, I am aware of your name[20:47:58] <zdykstra> I'm allowed to disagree with you[20:48:08] <waddlesplash> Barrett: zdykstra is still correct, we are tight on developer time and should spend it on QC instead of wild goose chases[20:48:26] <Barrett> you can spend your time however you want, sure :)[20:48:36] <waddlesplash> BFS journaling needs to be improved; but XFS did this R&D for their journal improvements too[20:48:37] <Barrett> I can do the same.[20:48:58] <waddlesplash> so we can read their papers and then do the same in BFS, when someone has the time[20:49:05] <waddlesplash> much easier than porting or even writing a new FS[20:50:03] <Barrett> zdykstra, of course, but it seems you got the "needs" like an order, in my language "needs" express a need that's consequent to an aim, not necessarily an order.[20:50:24] <Barrett> if that wasn't clear, I will take more care next time.[20:50:38] *** leemon <leemon!c6104a2c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.16.74.44> has joined #haiku[20:50:40] <zdykstra> no, that's on me for interpreting it so strictly[20:51:28] <Barrett> waddlesplash, writing a new fs would be overkill I agree[20:51:55] <Barrett> but taking some existing fs that can fit, may help the project a lot[20:52:13] <Barrett> lot of people was of this opinion in the early days of the project[20:52:20] <Barrett> that may have changed, I don't know.[20:53:22] <waddlesplash> Barrett: at this point we should just improve BFS performance[20:53:28] <zdykstra> is the performance of BFS enough of a limiting factor in the adoption of Haiku that it should be addressed?[20:53:30] <waddlesplash> the only bad part of it is journal writes[20:53:45] <waddlesplash> zdykstra: not really, it's bad in writes but not so atrocious[20:53:46] <Barrett> waddlesplash, AFAIK the big problem of BFS isn't performance, but problems with journaling and random corruptions[20:53:55] <Barrett> performance is easy to improve upon[20:54:01] <waddlesplash> Barrett: random corruptions turned out to be disk flush issues, I fixed those last year[20:54:20] <waddlesplash> I don't know if there are any new reports of corruption since then, besides "KDLs corrupted my BFS"[20:54:21] <zdykstra> the only time I notice that BFS is slow is when doing a huge git checkout[20:54:26] <waddlesplash> but of course KDLs corrput BFS, duh[20:54:43] <waddlesplash> zdykstra: yes, writes creating or destroying files are exceedingly slow, that's the one issue[20:54:43] *** axeld <axeld!~Thunderbi@89.233.84.179> has joined #haiku[20:54:43] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o axeld[20:54:44] <Begas_VBox> https://ibb.co/TLmgLGf (this could be a nice one for a new recipe) :)[20:54:59] *** GeekShadow <GeekShadow!~antoine@nzf.turmel.info> has joined #haiku[20:54:59] *** GeekShadow <GeekShadow!~antoine@nzf.turmel.info> has quit IRC (Changing host)[20:54:59] *** GeekShadow <GeekShadow!~antoine@reactos/tester/GeekShadow> has joined #haiku[20:55:28] <waddlesplash> zdykstra: writes to exiting files can be as fast as your link is (I get 90-100MB/s here, and that's approaching the theoretical limit of my spinning HDD)[20:56:16] <zdykstra> can Haiku be spun up in Behyve ?[20:57:09] <waddlesplash> I think it can, but I haven't tested myself[20:57:50] <tqh> it still bcachefs that we should use :)[20:58:07] <zdykstra> I'm super chuffed to see progress on bcachefs[20:58:22] *** bos20k <bos20k!~bos20k@50-198-103-109-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Bye.)[20:58:28] <zdykstra> Kent seems to do some really good work from my end-user only perspective[20:59:52] <Barrett> waddlesplash, I remember BeOS had some corruption problems[21:00:01] <tqh> yes, a bit experimental still and some ops like delete? seems slow[21:00:03] <Barrett> so, it may be our implementation is better who know[21:00:09] <waddlesplash> Barrett: BeOS was rather buggy, yes, we are much better[21:00:11] <Barrett> but there's no proof of that.[21:00:14] <waddlesplash> we have checkfs, they didn't :P[21:00:25] <waddlesplash> ... you can test it yourself, and see the difference?[21:00:32] <waddlesplash> again, corruption problems are largely gone[21:00:48] <Barrett> it may be then that my data partition is old and doomed[21:01:07] <Barrett> over time corrupted basically all my test videos[21:01:08] <zdykstra> can two different installs of Haiku exist on the same physical disk?[21:01:18] <Barrett> and there's a directory in the Trash that doesn't go away ;)[21:01:18] <zdykstra> or rather, can they be booted?[21:01:29] <Barrett> would be an interesting fs to dump for debugging[21:01:31] <waddlesplash> zdykstra: yes[21:01:44] <waddlesplash> I have a T61 with both 64 and 32-bit builds[21:01:54] <zdykstra> nice, I wanted to do that[21:01:57] <waddlesplash> Barrett: try checkfs'ing it, or recover'ing it[21:02:06] <Barrett> waddlesplash, did it already.[21:02:14] <Barrett> last time checkfs just kdl-ed[21:02:22] <zdykstra> I partitioned my drive 2x 40GB and the rest as a storage partition for shared code, etc[21:02:34] <waddlesplash> Barrett: then use recover[21:02:57] *** SimpleBrain <SimpleBrain!~simp@34.187.125.91.dyn.plus.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[21:03:07] *** roptat <roptat!~roptat@lepiller.eu> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in)[21:03:12] *** SimpleBrain <SimpleBrain!~simp@34.187.125.91.dyn.plus.net> has joined #haiku[21:03:45] <Barrett> I will just format it someday[21:03:58] <Barrett> not sure why it's still there[21:04:09] <Barrett> maybe because I planned to debug that stuff[21:04:27] <waddlesplash> btw, your Broadcom hardware should no longer hang the system[21:04:30] <waddlesplash> mmu_man fixed that[21:04:33] <Barrett> it doesn't[21:04:37] <Barrett> the ticket is closed[21:04:44] <Barrett> all gone right[21:04:50] <waddlesplash> :)[21:05:11] <Barrett> I thought it was your work on the layer[21:05:13] <Barrett> that fixed it[21:07:02] <waddlesplash> no, that particular fix was indeed mmu_man[21:07:21] *** roptat <roptat!~roptat@lepiller.eu> has joined #haiku[21:07:38] <waddlesplash> https://github.com/haiku/haiku/commit/4cd13e2a541c7def3354a6f8902611dc5dbe9441[21:07:49] <Barrett> a one liner I guess lol[21:08:00] <Barrett> sort of[21:12:08] <extrowerk> Begas_VBox, it is already on your ToDo list! :)[21:15:07] *** Prognoz <Prognoz!~Prognoz@181.231.204.129> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[21:15:15] *** lorglas <lorglas!~vision@pD9E1D9D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.10.3]: i've been blurred!)[21:19:07] *** mw| <mw|!~stian@159.92-220-243.customer.lyse.net> has joined #haiku[21:24:52] <Barrett> however, leaving behind any design/taste issue[21:25:09] *** sIRC_ <sIRC_!~sIRC_@89.107.233.220.static.exetel.com.au> has left #haiku[21:25:15] <Barrett> I think the main problem is that non-bfs drives can't use attributes and querying[21:25:28] <waddlesplash> because nobody implemented it[21:25:37] <Barrett> this is weird, especially because the packagefs isn't writable[21:25:40] <waddlesplash> ext can, though in a limited way; BTRFS doesn't have write support[21:25:45] <waddlesplash> Barrett: huh? packagefs has queries[21:26:05] <waddlesplash> NTFS has attributes, though I think we disabled these for the time being[21:26:09] <Barrett> waddlesplash, very slow ones last time I checked[21:26:20] <waddlesplash> because packagefs is slow in general[21:26:30] <waddlesplash> well[21:26:44] <waddlesplash> sparse reads are slow. it is designed to be cached, and not designed to be queried that much[21:26:50] <Barrett> but the problem is that, since other drivers doesn't supply queries and you can't implement them normally in the driver an alternative system should be provide[21:26:59] <waddlesplash> er... yes you can?[21:27:04] <waddlesplash> this is what the attribute_overlay is[21:27:10] <waddlesplash> we use it on FAT[21:27:54] <Barrett> waddlesplash, now, suppose someone implement it enough efficiently so that fat or ext4 behave almost like bfs what's the point of keeping this stuff in the bfs module?[21:28:04] <waddlesplash> "this stuff"?[21:28:08] <waddlesplash> what stuff do we keep in the BFS module?[21:28:25] <Barrett> the indexing[21:28:41] <waddlesplash> er... the only part of that we keep in the BFS module is the on-disk stuff[21:28:50] <waddlesplash> query parsing is implemented as a separate module[21:29:02] <waddlesplash> each FS has to implement the on disk stuff on its own of course[21:32:03] <Barrett> depending on the fs it may be problematic to support everything and efficiently[21:32:14] <Barrett> have the same medium scalability on each fs[21:33:12] <Barrett> and mmu_man showed in a paper that we need some more generic representation to have all kinds of attrs implemention be interoperable[21:33:36] <Barrett> so one can have any opinion, but there are issues to sort out anyway[21:33:43] *** hbelusca <hbelusca!~hbelusca@reactos/developer/hbelusca> has joined #haiku[21:33:47] <Barrett> either way I mean[21:34:00] <Barrett> question is what solution has more pros than cons.[21:34:14] *** BlueSky76 <BlueSky76!~vision@80-108-11-4.cable.dynamic.surfer.at> has joined #haiku[21:37:32] *** kaminishi <kaminishi!~kaminishi@79.103.185.244.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[21:42:41] *** eroken <eroken!~ernest@41.203.78.173> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)[21:42:49] <Barrett> I don't see why not, for example, the thing could be abstracted in a way that bfs continue to use it's features while other fs-s can implement an emulation of some sort.[21:43:11] <Barrett> also an userspace one[21:43:18] <waddlesplash> yes, this is what attribute_overlay is...[21:43:22] *** stippi <stippi!~Thunderbi@p200300E90F28A900F92CE7E13893FA73.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: stippi)[21:46:21] <Barrett> as far as I remember the attribute_overlay is used for stuff like live-cds[21:46:28] <Barrett> but I don't remember it had any persistence[21:46:43] <waddlesplash> it doesn't quite; but we could make it have persistence[21:46:50] <waddlesplash> no, write_overlay is for livecds[21:47:48] <Barrett> so, attribute_overlay isn't what I described[21:48:02] <Barrett> it needs to sort some problems before to support that.[21:48:04] <waddlesplash> it is half of it, and the other half could be added[21:48:15] <Barrett> the other half is the hard one ;)[21:57:54] *** Begas_VBox <Begas_VBox!~Begasus@d54C05BEA.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.10.3]: i've been blurred!)[21:59:32] *** Begasus_ <Begasus_!~Begasus@d54c05bea.access.telenet.be> has joined #haiku[22:03:24] <kallisti5> http://status.haiku-os.org for anyone who wants to keep up with the joy of the outage[22:06:08] <kallisti5> Opinions on dedicated hosting providers or *reliable* vm providers are welcome[22:06:23] <kallisti5> We pay ~80usd / mo at the moment for online.net[22:11:26] *** ClaudioM <ClaudioM!~ClaudioM@168.221.158.55> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[22:12:14] <Barrett> I have a 20% aruba discount if you want ;)[22:12:17] *** Megaf <Megaf!~Megaf@unaffiliated/megaf> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[22:12:24] *** swerner <swerner!~swerner@ipbcc2a6f2.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has quit IRC ()[22:12:27] *** euver <euver!~Thunderbi@p200300DF7F4A7C00E8E8FA39F1D526D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #haiku[22:13:05] *** Barrett <Barrett!~barrett@unaffiliated/barrett> has quit IRC (Quit: Barrett)[22:14:14] *** mmu_man <mmu_man!~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net> has joined #haiku[22:14:14] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[22:15:30] *** Begasus_ <Begasus_!~Begasus@d54c05bea.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.10.3]: i've been blurred!)[22:17:00] <Begasus> going down[22:17:04] <Begasus> g'night peeps[22:17:07] *** Begasus <Begasus!~begasus@ptr-4qba4eacnq3w2pku8p8.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Quit: Ex-Chat)[22:17:20] *** BlueSky76 <BlueSky76!~vision@80-108-11-4.cable.dynamic.surfer.at> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.10.3]: i've been blurred!)[22:22:48] <extrowerk> kallisti5: i'm hosting at rackforest: https://rackforest.com/ had no problems with them, located in hungary btw[22:23:21] <extrowerk> here is the english site: https://rackforest.com/en/[22:24:43] <waddlesplash> probably we'll try out Ikoula: https://www.ikoula.com/en[22:28:20] * kallisti5 looks up rackforest[22:28:25] *** kupi <kupi!uid212005@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rpbgrrtvtqplpupc> has joined #haiku[22:29:06] <kallisti5> whoo.. rackforest is a bit pricy[22:29:09] <waddlesplash> kallisti5: my analysis: looks kinda expensive, and Hungary's internet backbone reliability & peering is questionable[22:29:10] <waddlesplash> yeah[22:29:19] <waddlesplash> kallisti5: Ikoula dedicated is really good pricing[22:31:30] <extrowerk> going down[22:31:31] <extrowerk> bye[22:32:32] *** eroken <eroken!~ernest@41.203.78.173> has joined #haiku[22:32:34] *** Zenja <Zenja!~Zenja@110-174-168-144.static.tpgi.com.au> has joined #haiku[22:33:34] <waddlesplash> Zenja: still all good on XHCI front?[22:33:38] <Zenja> waddlesplash, I dont know if you read my message from 16 hours ago, just wanted to say that your latest XHCI changes fixed USB2/3 rust and USB2/3 flash disk transfer problems. No stalls, no timeouts, works like a charm.[22:33:45] <waddlesplash> yes, I did read it :)[22:33:48] <Zenja> I owe you a pizza + beer :)[22:33:57] <waddlesplash> :D[22:34:21] <Zenja> I tried to transfer over 100Gb of data across drives, worked rock solid. Before it was instant mouse loss.[22:34:44] <Zenja> However, I still have 2 issues which are probably unrelated. Let me explain:[22:34:53] <Zenja> 1) if I disconnect mouse, I cannot reconnect[22:34:59] <Zenja> You probably know about this one.[22:35:00] <waddlesplash> yep[22:35:06] <waddlesplash> we don't properly de-wire endpoints[22:35:06] <izaki> @waddlesplash I have even tried to use an usb wireless network device and it works![22:35:31] <waddlesplash> izaki: must be a USB-ECM one then; we don't support USB-WiFi chips correctly, yet[22:35:35] *** eroken <eroken!~ernest@41.203.78.173> has left #haiku[22:35:46] <Zenja> 2) burning nightly image to USB3 flash disk wont boot, gets stuck on 4th icon. vfs_mount_boot_file_system panic, KDL[22:35:51] <Zenja> Same image on USB2 stick boots fine[22:35:52] <extrowerk> waddlesplash: the hungarian connection is - correct me if i'm wrong - pretty ok. http://www.bix.hu/en/[22:35:55] <izaki> USB-ECM indeed[22:36:40] <Zenja> Same with USB3 hard disk, KDL on 4th icon vfs_mount_boot_file_system panic. Same image works on USB2 disk.[22:36:42] <waddlesplash> Zenja: does the USB3 flash disk work when just "mounted normally"?[22:37:03] <Zenja> Yes, I can now use the USB3 hard disk and flash disk when I boot from SSD[22:37:06] <Zenja> or from USB2[22:37:20] <waddlesplash> OK. Possibly a "burst" error or something like that[22:37:45] <Zenja> During KDL, I haev no access to keyboard, and on screen debugging obsccures last error message with KDL window.[22:37:59] <izaki> How are the feelings around mirroring, S3 (or similar), and CDNs for front/user facing infra?[22:38:01] <waddlesplash> yes, no access to keyboard in KDL is known[22:38:12] <waddlesplash> now that I understand the driver, I do plan to implement debug transfers (so we can use XHCI-attached keyboards in KDL) and then isochronous transfers (USB audio)[22:38:40] <waddlesplash> izaki: we are slowly collecting mirrors for packages, but it's not quite up to stuff yet[22:38:44] <Zenja> But when I boot from USB2 or SSD, I have full access to USB3 flash + USB3 external hard disk, works great now. It's just the boot process which panics. Once booted from other device, it works fine.[22:38:47] <Zenja> Go figure ...[22:39:06] <waddlesplash> probably there'll be some error in the log, but it's a little hard to access with no keyboard[22:42:06] <Zenja> To summarise, you have definately fixed the XHCI transfer issues which plagued this MacBook Pro 11.3. I feel confident to use USB3 hard disk as backup.[22:44:07] <waddlesplash> :)[22:44:38] <izaki> @waddlesplash so what are your thoughts about USB4?[22:44:41] * izaki runs[22:45:21] <waddlesplash> if it's just USB3+Thunderbolt, then, nothing[22:45:40] <waddlesplash> the whole point of XHCI was to make a future proof host controller, so that a new one didn't need to be made for new transfer speeds[22:46:05] <waddlesplash> so that's why USB 3.1, 3.2 are new specifications, but not new HCs; XHCI is still used for those[22:46:27] <izaki> I haven't really read in depth about it, but It seems like you say, USB3 and thunderbolt[22:47:40] <DepositePirate_> Hi, does anyone know a good explanation on how to convert 24 bit color (#FFFFFF) to 4 bit color #F, I've been banging at it the whole day, trying to bit shift by 20 bits, to get the MSBs. but there's something I'm missing here.[22:48:11] <waddlesplash> well you are trying to combine the 3 bytes to 1 byte[22:48:21] <waddlesplash> you can't just shift, that will destroy your data[22:48:47] <waddlesplash> you need to get the individual components and then scale and then shift them[22:49:29] <waddlesplash> DepositePirate_: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/41644778/convert-24-bit-color-to-4-bit-rgbi[22:50:10] <DepositePirate_> I just read that[22:51:10] <waddlesplash> ok so what's the problem?[22:54:28] <DepositePirate_> Well Since it's pretty easy to do convert -> #FF -> #FFFFFF[22:54:31] <DepositePirate_> Hum[22:54:43] <DepositePirate_> a 3 digit hex color to 6 digit[22:56:00] <DepositePirate_> Like if you want to convert #AAA you just -> #AAAAAA or #A1B ----> #AA11BB and that works[22:56:27] *** euver <euver!~Thunderbi@p200300DF7F4A7C00E8E8FA39F1D526D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: euver)[22:57:22] <DepositePirate_> So if I had a 4-bit color A --> #AAA --> #AAAAAA, 1 --> #111 -> #111111 I'm just trying to do the reverse.[23:01:47] <DepositePirate_> But I think I got it. I need to extract and convert each color separately, that's the part that is missing in this stackoverflow example.[23:02:22] <jjpx> #AAA is not 4-bit[23:02:43] <DepositePirate_> yes, #AAA 12 bit[23:02:49] <DepositePirate_> #A would be 4 bit[23:02:58] <DepositePirate_> 0 to 15[23:03:04] <DepositePirate_> 16 colors[23:09:04] *** qeos <qeos!~qeos@ppp91-79-232-174.pppoe.mtu-net.ru> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[23:10:04] *** tqh <tqh!~frho@82-183-10-104.customers.ownit.se> has quit IRC (Quit: Lämnar)[23:12:11] *** qeos <qeos!~qeos@ppp91-79-232-174.pppoe.mtu-net.ru> has joined #haiku[23:17:43] *** gouchi <gouchi!~gouchi@unaffiliated/gouchi> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[23:21:49] <Zenja> DepositePirate_ split the 24 bit colour to 3 8 bit components, then scale each component to 4 bit colour. Eg. if component is [0,255] and you need [0,15] just divide component by (256/16=16). Eg. r1=r/16, g1=g0/16, b1=b0/16. Hopefully you dont have to worry about converting SRGB colour space to linear RGB.[23:22:25] <Zenja> Bit shift to combine back into 12 bit colour (if that is what you need).[23:22:42] <Zenja> Haven't seen 12 bit colour since Amiga H&M days.[23:22:52] <DepositePirate_> Thanks that sounds like a plan.[23:23:29] <DepositePirate_> Nah I just want 4 bits, for converting a 24 bit color to something usable by a terminal/CGA[23:29:05] *** Vidrep_64 <Vidrep_64!~vision@d75-156-156-137.abhsia.telus.net> has joined #haiku[23:30:23] <Vidrep_64> waddlesplash, was yesterdays KDL photo of any help?[23:34:48] <jjpx> DepositePirate_, zenja, you can't do direct scaling due to rgb being 3 components and the target being 4[23:35:29] <jjpx> if you do it will result in a 3 bit colour[23:36:13] *** leemon <leemon!c6104a2c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.16.74.44> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[23:37:07] *** embden <embden!~embden@185.202.212.202> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[23:38:33] *** johnny_b <johnny_b!~johnny@unaffiliated/johnny-b/x-2136417> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[23:40:30] *** johnny_b <johnny_b!~johnny@unaffiliated/johnny-b/x-2136417> has joined #haiku[23:43:53] <DepositePirate_> I think I got the breaking into components part right now.[23:44:54] <DepositePirate_> red = (color & 0xFF0000) >> 16; green = (color & 0x00FF00) >> 8; blue = (color & 0x0000FF);[23:45:58] <jjpx> that means you will get a 3bit colour[23:46:19] <jjpx> that's easy[23:47:38] <DepositePirate_> i[23:47:59] <jjpx> maybe you could work with hsl colours instead of rgb[23:48:55] <DepositePirate_> I don't what that is and the input is either 6 digit hex, 3 digit hex, rgb.txt color or rgb(255,255,255)[23:48:58] <DepositePirate_> *know[23:49:55] <jjpx> if you want it simple use the formula you wrote before[23:51:22] <jjpx> but you will only have 8 colours available = 3-bit[23:51:53] <DepositePirate_> That seems it's going to be a problem[23:55:08] <jjpx> not really, unless you want hdr terminal[23:55:21] <DepositePirate_> hdr?[23:56:35] <DepositePirate_> the terminal/CGA can display 16 colors.[23:56:50] <jjpx> that