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[00:53:13] <Barrett> no way to boot Haiku here
[00:53:26] <Barrett> building from last hrev @ x86_64
[00:56:51] <Barrett> > This reverts commit 349326db275da7f7f507540ccecb2780ac655fe9.
[00:56:51] <Barrett> > Makes the system unbootable on my gcc2 BIOS machine.
[00:57:11] <Barrett> damn.
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[01:33:49] <olaf> google code in help
[01:33:52] <olaf> someone
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[01:34:49] <B2IT> (AGMS) I'm not involved with GCI, but if it's a general question I may know the answer.
[01:36:13] <mmu_man> olaf: don't ask to ask
[01:37:17] <olaf> ?
[01:38:36] <olaf> but this is a question about particular cgi task so
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[01:41:05] <B2IT> (AGMS) May have to ask it when the GCI people are around, earlier in the day usually, afternoon Europe time.
[01:41:50] <B2IT> (AGMS) Look at the IRC history for this channel and see what times people are talking about GCI specific stuff, then ask your question at similar times.
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[01:42:54] <mmu_man> he's gone already
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[02:52:54] <peter___> hi, how to simply double boot haiku on mac (on virtual machine it is terribly sllow)
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[03:00:03] <peter___> sorry
[03:00:12] <peter___> my question was
[03:00:23] <peter___> can i double boot haiku on mac
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[03:46:53] <mmu_man> KVM pedal jack mod :-) https://m.g3l.org/@mmu_man/101163482148159977
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[04:10:41] <rennj> hmm lazy
[04:10:51] <rennj> foot pedal
[04:11:18] <rennj> omniview kvm swiches was keyboard combo
[04:11:27] <rennj> pop between machines
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[04:12:25] <mmu_man> yeah but this one has a too complex combo
[04:12:41] <mmu_man> scrolllock scrolllock n
[04:13:10] <mmu_man> I have another one but it doesn't seem to like my Model M
[04:13:15] <mmu_man> ahh discuss is back
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[05:14:49] -HAIKU-Buildbot- Build haiku-release-x86_64 #120 is complete: Failure [failed jam @%%PROFILE%%-anyboot (failure)] - https://build.haiku-os.org/buildbot/#builders/42/builds/120
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[05:49:41] <Rajagopalan> Hello everyone
[05:49:49] <Rajagopalan> May i ask something?
[05:50:19] <Rajagopalan> I hope nobody gets upset
[05:50:29] <Rajagopalan> Why is haiku os looking so old
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[05:50:34] <Pentode> uh oh
[05:50:55] <Rajagopalan> The ui is not so catchy
[05:51:07] <Rajagopalan> rather reminds me something close to windows NT
[05:51:08] <Pentode> it's supposed to look and run like BeOS.
[05:51:22] <Pentode> the UI is half the reason it exists. ;)
[05:51:33] <Pentode> the other half is the way it functions
[05:52:01] <Pentode> it's _nothing_ like windows' interface, thats just ludicrous. lol
[05:52:22] <Pentode> the similarities are just tasks grouped on a bar and a system tray like thing with a desktop
[05:52:28] <Pentode> which most GUIs have
[05:53:10] <Rajagopalan> Hmm
[05:53:12] <Pentode> but anyway, yeah. the interface itself is part of the reason it's carried on.
[05:53:15] <Pentode> people liked it.
[05:53:20] <Rajagopalan> Must be my fancy then
[05:53:21] <Rajagopalan> Lol
[05:53:28] <Rajagopalan> Thanks for the info :)
[05:53:31] <Pentode> course it can't be for everybody ;)
[05:53:54] <Rajagopalan> Alright lets make haiku better
[05:55:56] <Pentode> im curious myself, really. i don't quite understand what the difference is between "looking old" and, well. not looking old.
[05:56:00] <Pentode> i really am generally curious
[05:56:09] <Pentode> what things make a UI look modern?
[05:56:40] <Pentode> a huge startmenu with tiles on it? a bar on the bottom of the screen with big icons that get even bigger when you move over them? ;-O
[05:57:04] <Rajagopalan> Lol im used to colorful windows 10
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[05:57:10] <Rajagopalan> ha ha ha
[05:57:17] <Pentode> well you can change the colors in haiku ;)
[05:57:18] <Rajagopalan> even i feel stupid
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[05:57:26] <Rajagopalan> after asking such a question
[05:57:29] <Rajagopalan> lol
[05:57:41] <Pentode> i mean, i'm old, so...
[05:57:46] <Rajagopalan> ill make sure i stay sensible next time onwards lol
[05:57:49] <Pentode> to me all of this crap looks modern ;D
[05:59:10] <leorize> on 4chan you'll see people "rice" Haiku's UI
[05:59:27] <leorize> and it looks way better than anything out there :P
[05:59:29] <Pentode> Rajagopalan, you'd probably roll over if you saw my linux workstation..
[05:59:35] <Pentode> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twm#/media/File:Debian_TWM_Maroon.png <- it looks similar to this, lol
[05:59:56] <Pentode> haiku ricing, woo!
[06:00:06] <Rajagopalan> Omg Pentode
[06:00:13] <Rajagopalan> I would die if i had something like that
[06:00:15] <Rajagopalan> hahaha
[06:00:37] <leorize> Pentode: did you rice it?
[06:00:55] <Pentode> not yet
[06:01:06] <Pentode> the most i did was change my tab / border colors ;)
[06:01:32] <leorize> changing colors is a lot :)
[06:01:36] <Scarecrow> I've looked into ricing Haiku, but I can't make it look much better than default tbh
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[06:02:13] <Pentode> i always liked the BeOS deskbar like it is in the corner up there
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[06:03:01] <leorize> personally I don't like Haiku's layout that much, I'm more of a tiling wm person :P
[06:03:07] <Scarecrow> I've ended up setting up my XFCE panel as a deskbar https://i.imgur.com/QDugMVF.png
[06:03:17] <leorize> but as far as floating go, Haiku's real good
[06:04:24] <Pentode> Scarecrow, yeah i had mine like that for a while. i like having a "windows" ish taskbar on the bottom of my screen.
[06:04:38] <Scarecrow> I had one like that for a while along the top of my 3 displays
[06:04:41] <Scarecrow> liked the real-estate
[06:04:53] <Scarecrow> but uh, iunno, I'm liking this for now
[06:05:33] <Pentode> change is good.
[06:06:03] <mmu_man> leorize: btw, in theory you could write a Decorator which would implement tiling
[06:06:07] <Scarecrow> I'll try something else eventually, I'm sure
[06:06:17] <Scarecrow> oh, the decorator can control window placement?
[06:06:21] <mmu_man> yes
[06:06:24] <Scarecrow> neat
[06:06:30] <mmu_man> ok, n8
[06:06:44] <Pentode> right now my X desktop is set up to look sortof like QNXs GUI
[06:06:57] <Scarecrow> QNX has a nice setup
[06:07:45] <Scarecrow> my workspace machine (circuit diagrams, PDFs, etc) is set up as a nextstep clone, it's p comf
[06:08:13] <Pentode> nice. i still use windowmaker sometimes.
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[06:08:35] <Pentode> i was going to put openstep on my other machine, actually. never got around to it, though...
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[06:08:52] <Scarecrow> nextspace looks like an interesting project, if you haven't seen it
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[06:10:00] <AlaskanEmily> I tried using GNUStep to port some stuff to OS X (like as an intermediate step).
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[06:10:15] <AlaskanEmily> Neither audio nor OpenGL was implemented, and I said oh well.
[06:10:31] <Pentode> yeah thats a killer
[06:10:41] <Scarecrow> that somewhat limits its uses
[06:10:51] <Pentode> Scarecrow, no i havent. im at it's github tho what the heck is this
[06:11:10] <Scarecrow> GNUStep stuff always felt slow to me, but that may be because the machine I was using it on was a whole 350Mhz
[06:11:23] <Scarecrow> Pentode: it's a NeXTSTEP clone desktop environment
[06:11:24] <Scarecrow> a proper one
[06:11:30] <Pentode> neat
[06:11:39] <Scarecrow> a modern one, even
[06:12:01] <AlaskanEmily> I mostly wanted it for porting a game. I was willing to accept older OpenGL support and old-school audio APIs, but having none at all means I can't even begin :P
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[06:12:35] <Pentode> does it still lack GL support? that really sucks.
[06:13:10] <Scarecrow> oh well, won't matter soon: OS X will lack OpenGL support :^)
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[06:13:54] <Pentode> ?
[06:14:18] <Scarecrow> Apple announced dropping OpenGL support in a near future release
[06:15:05] <Pentode> isn't that like cutting your foot off? why would they do that.
[06:15:24] <Scarecrow> To encourage use of their Vulkan-but-not API
[06:15:28] <Scarecrow> I presume
[06:15:41] <AlaskanEmily> They are deprecating it.
[06:15:56] <Scarecrow> That said, Vulkan will still work on there because it's maintained by third parties and goes through Apple's Vulkan-but-not API IIRC
[06:15:57] <AlaskanEmily> They want people to use Metal.
[06:16:29] <AlaskanEmily> AKA they want most apps to have to use middleware or write 2,000 lines of Metal code just to get back to where they were with using OpenGL
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[06:16:51] <AlaskanEmily> I'm a bit cynical about Metal and Vulkan :P
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[06:17:18] <Scarecrow> Vulkan can be a good thing! Telling people to not use OpenGL is kinda dumb though
[06:17:32] <AlaskanEmily> Right, they aren't in the same category.
[06:17:35] <Scarecrow> OpenGL is a lot easier to write for, apparently
[06:17:41] <AlaskanEmily> Vulkan is like what you use to implement OpenGL.
[06:17:50] <AlaskanEmily> Yeah, OpenGL is really easy.
[06:17:57] <Pentode> i've been using opengl for almost 20 years. im not learning anything else, screw that. lol
[06:18:05] <Scarecrow> Vulkan is like what the people that make graphics cards use to implement OpenGL in their drivers
[06:18:28] <Rajagopalan> im planning to start working on webpositive
[06:18:32] <AlaskanEmily> I'm waiting for someone to actually implement OpenGL using pure Vulkan. That would be great.
[06:18:38] <AlaskanEmily> ...maybe it's up to me... :/
[06:18:58] <Rajagopalan> in what way it needs to improved
[06:19:03] <Rajagopalan> where to start working
[06:19:04] <Scarecrow> I've seen a project to do it, but I'm not sure of the details or its purity
[06:19:12] <Rajagopalan> any help?
[06:23:06] <Rajagopalan> guys beginner here
[06:23:18] <Rajagopalan> Pentode Scarecrow AlaskanEmily
[06:23:27] * Scarecrow is not a developer
[06:23:34] <Rajagopalan> i want to play with haiku
[06:23:47] <Rajagopalan> trying to understand the codebase
[06:23:50] * AlaskanEmily develops programs and ports them to Haiku, not Haiku itself
[06:24:49] <Rajagopalan> wbu *
[06:25:04] <Scarecrow> If you want feature suggestions for Web+, I'd like an adblocker, though :D
[06:25:42] <AlaskanEmily> Does Web+ have WebRTC?
[06:25:57] * Scarecrow shrugs
[06:26:00] <Scarecrow> Matrix uses that, right?
[06:26:07] <AlaskanEmily> No idea what Matrix is :P
[06:26:21] <Scarecrow> it's a very ... webby take on federated instant messaging
[06:26:25] <Scarecrow> I'
[06:26:40] <Scarecrow> m very interested but given the only fully featured client is a webpage... I haven't tried it
[06:26:46] <AlaskanEmily> I mostly used Firefox Hello
[06:26:54] <AlaskanEmily> I miss that.
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[06:28:31] <Rajagopalan> is a kit something like API?
[06:28:34] <Rajagopalan> in haiku?
[06:28:57] <AlaskanEmily> It's similar to a framework/kit in OS X
[06:29:19] <AlaskanEmily> A collection of classes and functions that are for a specific purpose.
[06:29:29] <Rajagopalan> woah woah
[06:30:36] <Rajagopalan> Probably i may sound stupid now lol
[06:30:39] <Rajagopalan> Still its ok
[06:30:47] <Rajagopalan> Lets say
[06:31:08] <Rajagopalan> i want to find the source where desktop is being rendered
[06:31:22] <Rajagopalan> source file for rendering desktop
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[06:32:10] <AlaskanEmily> I can't help you with that in particular.
[06:32:39] <Rajagopalan> hmm thank you AlaskanEmily
[06:32:45] <Rajagopalan> No issues!!
[06:33:41] <Pentode> its in sources/haiku/src/kits/interface i believe
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[06:34:58] <Rajagopalan> Is web+ using a custom engine?
[06:35:03] <Rajagopalan> to render pages?
[06:35:11] <Rajagopalan> if so where can i find it
[06:35:18] <Pentode> it uses webkit
[06:36:01] <Rajagopalan> oh cool
[06:36:03] <Pentode> have you tried dooble/ otter-browser yet? theyre the two best ones i've found so far
[06:36:25] <Rajagopalan> never tried
[06:36:38] <Rajagopalan> using firefox lol
[06:37:31] <Rajagopalan> so planning to add session manager in web+
[06:37:38] <Rajagopalan> saw that in gsoc ideas list
[06:37:51] <Rajagopalan> restoring old sessions
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[06:38:11] <Pentode> BeZilla? is there another firefox project?
[06:38:13] <Pentode> bezilla sucks :/
[06:38:59] <Rajagopalan> never used it but heard of it i suppose its firefox for BeOS
[06:41:44] <AlaskanEmily> Porting Firefox to Haiku would probably be easiest using the partial Qt bindings first.
[06:43:14] <Rajagopalan> hmm i think
[06:43:16] <Rajagopalan> web+
[06:43:33] <Rajagopalan> credential storage method stores the password so blankly
[06:43:43] <Rajagopalan> isnt that a threat to security?
[06:43:53] <Rajagopalan> i suppose we shall hash it and store?
[06:46:40] <leorize> Rajagopalan: Haiku has a native secrets API IIRC
[06:47:05] <leorize> also, as a starter for web+, can you make the settings dialog use the file chooser for the default download folder?
[06:47:22] <Rajagopalan> Cool leorize
[06:47:23] <Rajagopalan> On it
[06:47:25] <Rajagopalan> !
[06:47:38] <Rajagopalan> Just a question
[06:47:52] <Rajagopalan> Where is the main code that renders the web+
[06:48:06] <Rajagopalan> i can each feature split in different c++ files
[06:48:18] <Rajagopalan> im curious how it puts everything together
[06:48:21] <Rajagopalan> and renders
[06:48:32] <Rajagopalan> any help out here leorize?
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[06:51:29] <leorize> not a web+ dev :P
[06:51:34] <leorize> you'd want to ask PulkoMandy
[06:53:34] <Rajagopalan> Alright thanks:)
[06:54:23] <Rajagopalan> PulkoMandy planning to make file location chooser for default download folder
[06:55:04] <Rajagopalan> Can you help me out to understand web+ source code
[06:55:32] <Rajagopalan> Under src/apps/webpositive i find c++ files split based on its features
[06:55:46] <Rajagopalan> but where is the main file that integrates all of them
[06:55:56] <Rajagopalan> any help?
[06:56:42] <leorize> the easiest way is to read all of them?
[06:56:53] <leorize> there has to be a `main()` somewhere, look for it
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[06:57:12] <leorize> anw, anyone wanna try this? https://cras.sh/
[06:57:19] <leorize> don't know if web+ is affected
[07:00:21] <Pentode> sorry i had to get up for a minute, i'm getting a code headache, lol.
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[07:02:52] <Pentode> Rajagopalan, look in BrowserWindow.cpp and BrowserApp.cpp
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[07:09:39] <Rajagopalan> Oh ya Pentode got it thank you :)
[07:11:40] <Pentode> have fun, lol
[07:13:48] <Rajagopalan> Pentode !!
[07:13:53] <Rajagopalan> how to test my changes
[07:14:02] <Rajagopalan> should i use jam to rebuild everything again?
[07:14:08] <Rajagopalan> then boot it up in a vm?
[07:14:27] <Pentode> you can just build the browser by itself but i'm not familiar with jam / alternate make systems
[07:14:52] <Rajagopalan> build the browser by itself means?
[07:14:54] <Pentode> i use gnumake. you can try typing "make" in the source tree but i dont know if that will work
[07:15:08] <Pentode> and i just hooked a second monitor up to my haiku machine and now im blacked out until i fix this, lol
[07:15:14] <Pentode> yeah
[07:16:04] <Rajagopalan> im not using haiku as my dev environment
[07:16:08] <Rajagopalan> i use linux
[07:16:13] <Rajagopalan> to be specific ubuntu
[07:16:24] <Pentode> you are using a VM?
[07:16:28] <Rajagopalan> yeap
[07:16:58] <Pentode> you need to run that thing on metal.
[07:17:02] <Pentode> ;)
[07:17:23] <Rajagopalan> i dont have an extra ssd to wipe out
[07:17:35] <Rajagopalan> and install haiku in that
[07:17:44] <Rajagopalan> So :/
[07:17:49] <Rajagopalan> relying on vm
[07:18:53] <Pentode> k im back in business now
[07:19:15] <Rajagopalan> congrats to you !! ;)
[07:19:24] <Pentode> lol
[07:19:44] <Rajagopalan> wonder when will i even start the business :(
[07:23:03] <Pentode> what business are you trying to start?
[07:23:55] <Rajagopalan> submitting patches for haiku
[07:23:56] <Rajagopalan> lol
[07:24:30] <Rajagopalan> i dont know how to see my changes also
[07:24:36] <Rajagopalan> if i had to rebuilt iso
[07:24:41] <Rajagopalan> it takes lots of time
[07:24:45] <Rajagopalan> :/
[07:24:50] <AlaskanEmily> You shouldn't need to do that.
[07:25:03] <AlaskanEmily> If you just want to work on Web+, you only need to build Web+
[07:26:18] <Pentode> https://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_33_1/doc/html/bbv2/advanced/jamfiles.html
[07:26:21] <Pentode> Rajagopalan, thats what im reading right now.
[07:26:38] <Rajagopalan> ok so if i just build web+
[07:26:39] <Pentode> you just have to build web+ in its source tree, you dont have to do all of that
[07:26:47] <Rajagopalan> will it change the iso?
[07:26:54] <Rajagopalan> i mean im booting it in a vm
[07:27:00] <Pentode> are you running live mode?
[07:27:04] <Rajagopalan> alright lemme try
[07:27:14] <Rajagopalan> nope i installed it Pentode
[07:27:15] <Pentode> you need to install it first
[07:27:32] <Pentode> then it will just affect the media you put it on / in
[07:27:39] <Pentode> container, fake filesystem or whatever you did.
[07:27:43] <Pentode> i dont use VM often ;)
[07:27:49] <AlaskanEmily> Your VM should have a virtual HDD
[07:28:00] <AlaskanEmily> Baremetal is ideally the way to go, yeah :P
[07:28:27] <AlaskanEmily> Although using something like Qemu without KVM separates the fast OSes from the slow ones.
[07:28:31] <AlaskanEmily> Haiku passes that test :P
[07:28:46] <Rajagopalan> so if i run make or jam
[07:28:49] <Rajagopalan> in web+ dir
[07:28:57] <Rajagopalan> No `BuildConfig' found in ../../../generated/build!
[07:28:57] <Rajagopalan> Run ./configure in the source tree's root directory first!
[07:29:01] <Rajagopalan> i get these
[07:29:59] <AlaskanEmily> Getting something to build is usually harder than the first real bugfix or patch you do for it :P
[07:30:10] <Rajagopalan> yeah
[07:30:18] <Rajagopalan> i need to build it successfully
[07:30:42] <Rajagopalan> i need to see that the changes i make reflects
[07:30:50] <Rajagopalan> its like a motivation factor
[07:30:51] <Rajagopalan> :P
[07:30:59] <Rajagopalan> although i may sound childish lol
[07:32:05] <Pentode> its normal. lol
[07:32:49] <Rajagopalan> pentode thank you for not making fun of me ;)
[07:34:02] <Pentode> not my style ;)
[07:34:27] <Rajagopalan> hmm
[07:34:40] <Rajagopalan> i modified the authors of web+
[07:34:46] <Rajagopalan> i added my name :P
[07:34:50] <Rajagopalan> want to see the changes
[07:34:55] <Rajagopalan> lol
[07:34:58] <Rajagopalan> dont judge me
[07:35:05] <Rajagopalan> just for testing purposes :P
[07:35:19] <Rajagopalan> but sadly haiku is plotting against me
[07:37:11] <Pentode> you should be able to type ../../../configure then run jam
[07:37:24] <Pentode> i cant test it sadly im getting some weird error about case sensitive file systems
[07:37:29] <Pentode> which.. i already have
[07:38:49] <Rajagopalan> i have the build tools compiled in generate.x86_64
[07:38:56] <Rajagopalan> but jam looks for generate
[07:39:15] <Rajagopalan> so i renamed generate.x86_64 to generate
[07:39:31] <Rajagopalan> but the files in the build folders were referencing the old names
[07:39:35] <Rajagopalan> so got jagged there
[07:39:39] <Rajagopalan> #sadlyf
[07:40:01] <Pentode> i think we need an expert
[07:40:28] <Rajagopalan> hmm lemme compile it in generated folder this time
[07:40:36] <Rajagopalan> probably it should work
[07:41:16] <leorize> you're supposed to compile it in the generated folder...
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[08:05:16] <Begasus> g'morning peeps
[08:12:06] <Pentode> mornin
[08:12:14] <Pentode> Rajagopalan, how you making out with that?
[08:13:35] <Rajagopalan> Lol im compiling it again
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[08:13:42] <Rajagopalan> So pray for me pentode
[08:13:47] <Rajagopalan> ;)\
[08:14:39] <Pentode> lol
[08:14:59] <Pentode> dont feel bad ive been puzzling over this friggin piece of code for two hours
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[08:16:21] <dby> ?Exit
[08:16:31] <dby> ?Quit
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[08:23:17] <Rajagopalan> lol ill pray for ya then Pentode
[08:24:01] <Rajagopalan> nvidia drivers are ported to haiku?
[08:24:21] <Rajagopalan> wonder where haiku can reach on taking power of dedicated gpus
[08:25:09] <Pentode> well they are drivers for some of the features but there is no hardware 3D acceleration yet
[08:25:23] <Pentode> someone said they were going to create a compatibility layer for BSD drivers
[08:26:12] <Pentode> i was interested in working on a project to do this with linux's graphics subsystem but im waiting to see what they are going to do first
[08:26:29] <Pentode> it's a _huge_ task and i dont want to invest in it if nobody will use it ;)
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[08:48:55] <Pentode> i gotta get my mouse off peanut butter he's getting pudgy but he gets pissed when i don't give it to him, lol
[08:51:55] <humdinger> try with USB, the cable makes them irritable
[08:52:06] <Begasus> moin humdinger
[08:52:21] <humdinger> Hi Begasus!
[08:52:37] <Pentode> lol
[08:52:53] <Pentode> mornin folks
[08:53:08] <Begasus> morning Pentode Rajagopalan
[08:53:11] <humdinger> 'allo, 'allo
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[09:01:31] <Rajagopalan> aloha Begasus
[09:01:37] <Rajagopalan> Although its afternoon here
[09:01:46] <Rajagopalan> just completed my lunch
[09:01:58] <Rajagopalan> btw im not from hawaii
[09:02:01] <Rajagopalan> lol
[09:02:09] <Begasus> ;)
[09:04:05] <Pentode> "completed my lunch" -- lol
[09:04:18] <Pentode> once i was at my uncles autoshop years ago and asked him "what kind of volume he did"
[09:04:24] <Pentode> i got made fun of for years for that, lol
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[09:11:25] <raju> Yoho checking out the irc android client
[09:12:45] <Pentode> howdy ho
[09:15:00] <Begasus> hi raju
[09:15:21] <raju> BTW I'm Rajagopalan only
[09:15:42] <raju> I miss out what's going on when I'm offline
[09:15:43] <Begasus> lol
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[09:15:55] <raju> So using android will keep me online always
[09:15:59] <raju> So yeah
[09:16:12] <Vrondir> mornin' y'all!
[09:16:22] <Begasus> morining Vrondir
[09:16:49] <Vrondir> oh hey Begasus, your early today :
[09:16:55] <Vrondir> :D
[09:17:13] <Begasus> pretty late for a saturday :P
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[09:30:17] <Begasus> cc1: unknown C standaard c99? any idea here?
[09:31:56] <Pentode> try using --std=c99?
[09:32:23] <Begasus> it's already included in the makefile
[09:32:28] <Pentode> oh, ok
[09:32:52] <Begasus> ps, this is for gcc2
[09:33:02] <Begasus> for gcc7 it works ok
[09:33:04] <Pentode> oh
[09:33:14] <Pentode> yeah gcc2 no workey c99
[09:33:44] <Begasus> just got to a forum mentioning it, thanks
[09:33:58] <Pentode> you may be able to install a bunch of extensions and make it work somehow
[09:34:02] <Pentode> but im not sure, sorry
[09:34:22] <Begasus> np, just checking up on jigit (PR at github)
[09:34:43] <Begasus> just want to be sure I don't put anything there that's not been checked :)
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[10:37:28] <brobostigon> updated from beta1 repo to master, no breakages, however still no sound, so nothing changed to make it work.
[10:39:43] <Pentode> card shows up / everything looks normal but no output?
[10:40:14] <brobostigon> yes.
[10:40:27] <brobostigon> and all the normal controls shows in media prefs.
[10:40:36] <brobostigon> as wel las in cortex.
[10:41:11] <brobostigon> https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/4755#comment:40
[10:41:20] <Pentode> what sucks is a lot of cards are very similar.. accept for the output lines and control
[10:41:46] <Pentode> the cards probably working fine, it just isn't switched on at the output.
[10:41:59] <Pentode> someones gonna have to finish the driver for it
[10:42:02] <brobostigon> ah, good point,
[10:42:06] <brobostigon> yes.
[10:42:16] <Pentode> 9 years, eesh
[10:42:22] <brobostigon> quite.
[10:42:33] <Pentode> yeah what sucks is without the hardware it's difficult to do
[10:43:03] <brobostigon> thats why i am trying to provide as much information as possible.
[10:43:57] <brobostigon> my day job is writing c++ for car microcontrollers, so i think i will have a look at it myself too.
[10:44:29] <Pentode> sadly all the information in the world wont really help. the code has to be tested and tweaked before it's going to work properly
[10:44:57] <Pentode> it may be possible to do with sources from another systems driver
[10:44:57] <brobostigon> i see, oh well.
[10:45:01] <Pentode> _if_ they exist
[10:45:26] <Pentode> but even still... compile, send brobostigon driver, test, repeat over and over and over...
[10:45:27] <Pentode> lol
[10:45:43] <brobostigon> yep.
[10:46:10] <Pentode> yeah audio devices are not too complex if you are motivated you should have a go at it
[10:46:32] <Pentode> it's more likely that way to get success than to wait for someone else to do it
[10:46:36] <Pentode> especially if its older hardware
[10:47:34] <brobostigon> its a dell latitude 13 from 4 years ago.
[10:47:35] <Pentode> ..oh yeah that damn chipset. million sound controllers and every other model has a different back end :-/
[10:47:43] <brobostigon> :(
[10:48:46] <Pentode> what model is the card, specifically?
[10:48:55] <Rajagopalan> guys *sobbing*
[10:49:09] <Pentode> i'll have a look at it but im not promising anything
[10:49:12] <brobostigon> Pentode: i have detailed it in that bug comment.
[10:49:20] <Rajagopalan> anyone knows how to use linux as dev environment
[10:49:21] <Pentode> <- not a haiku developer
[10:49:28] <Pentode> k
[10:49:47] <brobostigon> Rajagopalan: to develop for haiku?
[10:49:53] <Rajagopalan> yes
[10:49:57] <Pentode> which post is yours, the main one?
[10:50:17] <brobostigon> Pentode: https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/4755#comment:40
[10:50:41] <brobostigon> the very last comment.
[10:50:44] <Pentode> oh ok sorry
[10:52:00] <Pentode> yeah that chip has been around for a long long time
[10:52:04] <Pentode> over 10 years
[10:52:06] <leorize> Rajagopalan: just develop it on Linux, the APIs are there, etc.
[10:52:19] <Rajagopalan> i am able to build it and fire it in a vm
[10:52:36] <Rajagopalan> but if i make changes
[10:52:40] <leorize> then share the source with a VM via NFS, Samba, scp, etc.
[10:53:04] <Rajagopalan> it does not build only changed files
[10:53:10] <Rajagopalan> it builds whole thing again
[10:53:14] <Rajagopalan> and gives me an iso
[10:53:14] <brobostigon> Pentode: thats what i suspected, as i had a similar one on one of my old work thinkpads.
[10:53:52] <leorize> Rajagopalan: it builds the changed files and the one that uses it...
[10:54:00] <leorize> the build is usually fast, so I don't complain
[10:54:01] <Pentode> yeah. they dont really go out of style as fast as other devices so companies tend to re-use them over and over to save money
[10:54:14] <brobostigon> ah i see.
[10:54:23] <Rajagopalan> im on an i7 and takes me about 5 minutes
[10:54:28] <Rajagopalan> so is that normal
[10:54:34] <Rajagopalan> it builds all dependecies
[10:54:39] <Rajagopalan> and no short cut tricks
[10:54:41] <Rajagopalan> ?
[10:54:49] <leorize> depends on what you change
[10:55:05] <leorize> usually should only rebuild the changed source files then repackage it
[10:55:27] <Rajagopalan> so lest say i modified something in web+
[10:55:40] <Rajagopalan> then inside src/apps/webpositive i use jam
[10:55:54] <Rajagopalan> then again in generated folder if i give jam
[10:56:09] <Rajagopalan> it will rebuild only required files
[10:56:11] <Rajagopalan> am i right?
[10:57:14] <Pentode> sounds right. this is how gnumake and the like behave
[10:57:39] <Pentode> building _everything_ when one only changes a small chunk of code would be ludicrous
[10:58:04] <Begasus> hi leorize !
[11:00:10] <leorize> hi Begasus
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[11:20:47] <korli> Rajagopalan: first build with "jam -q haiku-image", then to rebuild and update webpositive: "jam -q update-image WebPositive"
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[11:22:35] <HAIKU-irker933> haiku.master: * hrev52613 [1 commit] https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=a57cf128a651+%5Ecf6760f20cce
[11:22:35] <HAIKU-irker933> a57cf128a651: Codec Kit: Introduce declarative macro with version and name
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[11:32:23] <Rajagopalan> Korli will that generate an iso file?
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[11:37:19] <Naseef> Hey!
[11:37:28] <Begasus> hi Naseef
[11:37:33] <Begasus> hi korli !
[11:37:35] <Naseef> hi Begasus
[11:38:01] <Naseef> Exams just ended an I don't have school for the whole month.
[11:38:11] <Naseef> Now I can do GCI tasks full time.
[11:41:57] <Begasus> whohoo :D
[11:43:23] <Naseef> I wish GCI started in December :D
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[12:10:19] * Barrett shake hands with media2
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[12:31:42] <HAIKU-irker933> haiku.master: * hrev52614 [1 commit] https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=b6802a953057+%5Ea57cf128a651
[12:31:43] <HAIKU-irker933> b6802a953057: MetaData: Remove support for uint32 keys
[12:37:34] <korli> Rajagopalan: no it generates a raw image
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[12:38:55] <B2IT> (Shaka) anyone know why SoftwareUpdater is never "up to date" with the Nightlies page?
[12:39:25] <B2IT> (Shaka) my repo is set to nightlies according to this page https://www.haiku-os.org/blog/kallisti5/2018-09-11_repository_update/
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[12:44:45] <HAIKU-irker933> haiku.master: * hrev52615 [1 commit] https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=bc6fcc8aae6d+%5Eb6802a953057
[12:44:46] <HAIKU-irker933> bc6fcc8aae6d: ape_reader: Remove pedantic instantiate_plugin declaration
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[12:48:13] <Naseef> For the social media post task, Do I have to write about a feature of the OS or about an app?
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[12:59:19] <Barrett> Naseef, can you link me the task?
[13:02:14] <Naseef> yea..
[13:02:46] <Naseef> https://codein.withgoogle.com/tasks/5778748885434368
[13:02:50] <Barrett> "For this task you will need to write a social media post on either a Haiku feature, a Haiku application or an application on HaikuDepot."
[13:02:57] <Barrett> it seems you have the choice
[13:03:22] <Barrett> Haiku feature is intended a feature of the OS of course
[13:03:36] <Naseef> what kind of features?
[13:03:45] <Naseef> like replicants?
[13:04:10] <Barrett> yes, or stack & tile or the package manager etc.
[13:04:15] <Barrett> things like that
[13:04:35] <Naseef> what if I just wrote about all window management features?
[13:04:53] <Barrett> seems fine, Stack & Tile is an unique feature there.
[13:05:06] <Barrett> you can find material to read in the userguide
[13:05:23] <Barrett> and in the dev's blogposts
[13:05:38] <Naseef> Thanks, I'll check them out.
[13:05:45] <Barrett> np
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[13:18:08] <SnodBlatter> alright my dudes
[13:18:35] <SnodBlatter> has anyone tried using a USB disk/stick on haiku recently?
[13:19:42] <SnodBlatter> i want to copy some files over but the merest whiff of a USB stick and the computer locks solid
[13:20:00] <SnodBlatter> pretty sure it used to work ok in beta1..
[13:21:02] <SnodBlatter> hrev52597 x86 here btw
[13:23:01] <Diver1> SnodBlatter: you can check if something is written in syslog using tail -F /var/log/syslog while copying files to USB
[13:23:25] <SnodBlatter> it locks straight away
[13:23:54] <SnodBlatter> booting with a stick in also causes a freeze just before desktop. never gets past the haiku logo
[13:25:35] <SnodBlatter> just wondered if it was affecting anyone else
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[13:30:25] <Rajagopalan> i tried as korli said
[13:31:14] <Rajagopalan> but now webpositive iss not even showing up in applications list
[13:31:24] <Rajagopalan> might be a compilation fault?4
[13:31:45] <Rajagopalan> i tried running jam in src/apps/wepositive also
[13:32:13] <Diver1> try jam WebPositive
[13:32:33] <Diver1> what target did you use?
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[13:39:57] <Rajagopalan> target?
[13:40:44] <Rajagopalan> jam Webpositive in generated folder? Diver1
[13:46:24] <Naseef> "Microsoft threatened to revoke a manufacturer’s Windows license if they sold BeOS machines"?
[13:49:18] <Diver1> Rajagopalan: in top src folder
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[13:52:01] <SnodBlatter> found i had some read only files on the USB stick, made them all read/write but still hangs as soon as it's plugged in
[13:52:13] <SnodBlatter> bit of a bugger, i was hoping to play some serious sam
[13:52:55] <SnodBlatter> can't seem to get much action out of the samba server either..
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[14:11:25] <B2IT> (Shaka) I just updated to hrev52610 and Media files not working now.. "General System Error" had this bug been submitted yet?
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[14:17:45] <B2IT> (Shaka) might just be MediaPlayer. SMTube working fine
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[14:24:16] <SnodBlatter> finally copied my game files over FTP, seems the GOG and Steam versions are different to the original anyway
[14:24:18] <SnodBlatter> bah
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[14:49:41] <Rajagopalan> got tired of cross compiling
[14:49:47] <Rajagopalan> gonna use haiku itself
[14:51:13] <Begas_VBox> ;)
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[15:02:37] <Rajagopalan> :( installed haiku
[15:02:44] <Rajagopalan> now how to get the source of web+
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[15:06:16] <Rajagopalan> anyone guys
[15:06:31] <Rajagopalan> Begas_VBOX pentode leorize any help guys?
[15:06:41] <leorize> cloning the Haiku's repo?
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[15:11:14] <Barrett> Rajagopalan, I'm not a web+ dev so I may be imprecise
[15:11:22] <Barrett> but I think the source in the haiku tree is just the Haiku GUI
[15:11:36] <Barrett> the true source is the webkit repo that's on the haiku's github
[15:11:51] <Barrett> https://github.com/haiku/webkit
[15:11:53] <Barrett> that one
[15:12:03] <Barrett> there are some build instructions
[15:12:12] <Barrett> I think you can work from there
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[15:12:48] <Rajagopalan> webkit is just the engine right?
[15:12:56] <Rajagopalan> i want to make changes to the browser
[15:13:11] <Barrett> yes but includes a lot of haiku specific code
[15:13:17] <Barrett> it depends on what you want to change
[15:13:52] <Barrett> but yeah, GUI changes should be done only in the source inside haiku's source code
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[15:24:55] <Barrett> someday, I may step in to implement the WebAudio API
[15:25:03] <Barrett> but not with the current media framework
[15:25:23] <Vrondir> hey, does somebody know how I can debug code line by line with the haiku debugger?
[15:26:36] <leorize> you just need to "Step"
[15:26:41] <Diver1> Vrondir: https://www.haiku-os.org/files/DebuggerReferenceManual.pdf
[15:26:50] <Barrett> setting breakpoints
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[15:54:22] <brobostigon> ok, i am thinking aloud here, but would the generic snd driver work? so couldnt i just force it to use that driver instead, and see what happens, without using a specific hw driver?
[15:54:37] <brobostigon> cd ..
[15:54:42] <brobostigon> sorry.
[15:57:25] <Barrett> brobostigon, not sure if it can work, but if it does, that'd be poor quality sound
[15:57:43] <Barrett> brobostigon, is it an HDA device right?
[15:58:11] <brobostigon> it is, yes, HDA ICH9.
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[15:59:21] <Barrett> the hda driver should put some interesting info in the syslog about how it selects ports
[15:59:43] <brobostigon> device 293e: 82801I (ICH9 Family) HD Audio Controller
[16:00:00] <brobostigon> ah, ok, i will have a look.
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[16:33:52] <brobostigon> https://transfer.sh/AaRIN/hda.txt thats the output from grepping syslog for hda, and no idea what i am looking for.
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[16:48:24] <Barrett> brobostigon, the mixer show up in deskbar?
[16:48:47] <brobostigon> Barrett: yes.
[16:49:02] <brobostigon> and all the normal things in media preferences too.
[16:49:05] <Barrett> but no sound
[16:49:09] <brobostigon> nope.
[16:49:15] <Barrett> and in the preferences changing output does not work
[16:49:23] <brobostigon> nope.
[16:50:02] <brobostigon> media prefs only shows one channel output.
[16:51:39] <Barrett> do you have a builtin microphone in your laptop?
[16:51:44] <Pentode> it looks like everythings working, i wonder if all you need to do is change power states
[16:51:59] <brobostigon> Barrett: yes.
[16:52:11] <brobostigon> power states?
[16:52:34] <Barrett> brobostigon, if you open SoundRecorder, press record and tap on the microphone does the meter show some pulse?
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[16:52:55] <brobostigon> one moment.
[16:52:55] <Barrett> you should see the green bar going up
[16:53:33] <brobostigon> nothing.
[16:53:38] <Pentode> brobostigon, acpi power management crap. the card has the ability to turn on / off different sections
[16:54:13] <Barrett> the only thing you can do is debug the driver: https://github.com/haiku/haiku/tree/master/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/audio/hda
[16:54:25] <Barrett> or follow Pentode suggestion
[16:54:34] <brobostigon> yep, thats what i have been looking at the last hour or so.
[16:54:35] <Pentode> a lot of times the default is to start the device up in a minimal power mode
[16:54:48] <Barrett> sometimes booting into a linux distro and then booting into Haiku solve those issues..but it's unlikely
[16:55:39] <Pentode> yeah, if it enables the codec and it stays on sometimes that works
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[16:56:36] <Pentode> brobostigon, it's a long shot but one thing you can try if your bios has the ability is to disable power management
[16:57:05] <brobostigon> Pentode: i think so, yes, i will have a look.
[16:59:30] <Pentode> http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/AM335x_Audio_Driver%27s_Guide <- this is a linux oriented guide but it will offer some insights into how these devices / drivers work
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[17:01:05] <Pentode> even though its not your device / os it has some useful information to give you somewhere to start
[17:01:53] <Pentode> there may be a driver development guide for beos / haiku too
[17:01:58] <Pentode> i havent looked at the docs yet
[17:03:20] <Barrett> checking the logs of the alsa driver may help too I guess
[17:03:34] <Barrett> to see what's is being done differently in Haiku
[17:03:42] <Pentode> yeah thats a good idea too.
[17:04:29] <Not> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/fpo6O
[17:04:31] <Not> [haikuports/haikuports] korli a3063c5 - libetonyek: rebuild with devel:mdds.
[17:06:42] <brobostigon> i was just going to do that, get a copy of the alsa hda driver, and work from there.
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[17:06:59] <brobostigon> and the bios had nothing useful.
[17:07:16] <Pentode> yeah i figured. was worth a look at least.
[17:07:28] <Pentode> looking at the driver is definitely a good idea
[17:08:30] <brobostigon> i agree, and compare that against whats in the equivilant haiku driver.
[17:08:33] <Pentode> if you run linux you could put some of your own debugging stuff in there to get a clearer picture of whats going on
[17:09:39] <brobostigon> i have a second of the same machine on my desk with debian on it, good idea.
[17:13:08] <Pentode> also, i'm sure you've tried it but in case you didn't, try plugging headphones / speakers / whatever in the ports
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[17:17:32] <brobostigon> i will try that again.
[17:19:47] <extrowerk> Barrett: hi
[17:20:34] <extrowerk> Barrett: i have no info about the possible latencies on Haiku, but one program reports here on my computer: "Audio Driver MediaKit average latency: 46ms (frame=2048)" Does it looks good to you?
[17:20:38] <brobostigon> yep, same result with my speaker connected.
[17:20:46] <brobostigon> speakers*
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[17:40:05] <Vidrep_64> Hi
[17:40:32] <Barrett> extrowerk, how many samples per second you have set?
[17:41:47] <Not> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/fpoiE
[17:41:49] <Not> [haikuports/haikuports] korli 86c20c3 - libetonyek: use mdds-1.4.pc.
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[17:42:58] <extrowerk> Barrett: i didn't set anything. Just Godot reported it.
[17:43:23] <Barrett> depends heavily on the sampling
[17:43:32] <Barrett> seems good enough however
[17:43:50] <Barrett> while I don't know where it takes this value
[17:44:46] <extrowerk> Barrett: sorry, i can't give any other info right now.
[17:44:55] <extrowerk> But thanks for working on mediakit
[17:45:13] <extrowerk> for me it is absolutely magic what you doing
[17:46:05] <Vidrep_64> Barrett, are your last commits up to and including hrev52615 going to fix the problems we saw yesterday?
[17:47:53] <Barrett> extrowerk, ;)
[17:47:57] <Barrett> Vidrep_64, yes
[17:48:04] <Vidrep_64> Good to know
[17:48:52] <Vidrep_64> I find that on maybe 1 out of 10 boots, I have no audio. Restarting media services restores audio. Known issue?
[17:49:06] <Vidrep_64> vendor 8086: Intel Corporation device 1e20: 7 Series/C216 Chipset Family High Definition Audio Controller
[17:50:47] <Barrett> Vidrep_64, that seems the usual issue of "no sound at boot"
[17:51:40] <Barrett> however, I will say that one time for all: I'm not going to personally support the media_kit anymore, so no hope I will work on it in future
[17:51:55] <Barrett> so don't bother me with bugs and things like that
[17:52:00] <Barrett> :)
[17:52:34] <Barrett> in the foreseeable future I will create my personal branch for working on the media2 kit and that's where I will focus my attention
[17:52:57] <Barrett> I will introduce BMediaGraph, and the philosophy "everything is a graph"
[17:53:49] <Vidrep_64> Barrett, I knew that already ;)
[17:53:51] <Barrett> Now I have to go buying some rice to make Arancini al ragù for dinner
[17:53:56] <Barrett> see later, maybe
[17:55:37] <Vidrep_64> Arrivederci
[17:56:16] * brobostigon is making a mushroom and chicken risotto for his fiance,
[17:57:29] <Vidrep_64> My specialty pasta dish is Kraft Dinner LOL
[17:58:22] <extrowerk> Barrett: nobody expects you to support hda quirks, if tha's what you meant.
[17:58:54] <extrowerk> But iam personally pretty happy seeing your changes in mediakit
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[17:59:53] <brobostigon> its reasons like that, as i am a pretty good computer engineer, that i am trying to help, where i can.
[18:02:52] <extrowerk> brobostigon: you can maybe fix the hda driver :)
[18:03:31] <extrowerk> it is way too easy to say "worksforme", while others have no sound output. :(
[18:04:29] <brobostigon> extrowerk: i need to understand it first, :)
[18:05:55] <extrowerk> brobostigon: you are a prety good computer enginner, so you can do it. i can provide beer if you happen to be in the stuttgart reegion
[18:06:54] <brobostigon> extrowerk: my day job is car controllers, so i am sure in time, :)
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[18:07:37] <extrowerk> brobostigon: CAN and canoe and other sht like that?
[18:08:19] <extrowerk> you guys frickin include blackboxes in the code. that disturbs me really ....
[18:08:30] <brobostigon> CAN is a part of it, yes.
[18:09:16] <brobostigon> i write as openly as i possibly can, we did the designs from scratch, and we will keep the designs as open as we can.
[18:09:31] <extrowerk> at least i heard from EE-s that you guys gets blackbox binaries to include into the controller firmwares. thats strange to me.
[18:10:02] <brobostigon> it is, and we dont work like that.
[18:11:46] <extrowerk> my best friend working for germany OEMs as firmware developer and he told really strange stories.
[18:11:59] <extrowerk> hope it isn't so in your area
[18:12:24] <extrowerk> i was absolutely speechless as he told me the things what they doing.
[18:13:10] <brobostigon> in our early designs from 7 odd years ago, we just used basic arduino's, and they worked beautifuly, and we still use them.
[18:15:43] <brobostigon> some of the early code, https://github.com/brobostigon/saab-hybrid
[18:18:13] <extrowerk> brobostigon: the germans doing it somewhat differently it seems
[18:19:44] <brobostigon> extrowerk: thats the impression i get as well.
[18:20:22] <brobostigon> btw, the design still has a lot of work to do on it, and is still prototype.
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[18:39:58] <Barrett> extrowerk, no I didn't meant that, I meant that I know there are some chronic problems of the media_kit and I'm not going to fix them even if people continue to report them
[18:40:29] <extrowerk> i still can understand your point
[18:41:15] <Barrett> and, once, I would have been happy to work on the hda driver but things changed and as result I'm not available anymore ;)
[18:42:38] <Barrett> extrowerk, what about handcrafted beer in hungary? Is there the boom of new breweries also there?
[18:44:12] <extrowerk> Barrett: it is complicated. It started some years ago, as the politicsans mad smoking no-go in pubs.
[18:44:44] <brobostigon> whereas now, now my fiance is working again, i get to spend more time at home with our 4 month old, :)
[18:44:49] <extrowerk> then there was a big time for home-owners who let you come in and smoke in their homes.
[18:45:08] <brobostigon> and more time on my hands.
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[18:45:44] <extrowerk> and you haven't paid for alcohol, but for the use of the place.
[18:45:53] <extrowerk> actually for the beer
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[18:46:08] <extrowerk> it made a big boom i think for the small companies
[18:46:35] <extrowerk> now you can get crafted beer everywhere in hungary
[18:46:45] <Not> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/fpoX5
[18:46:46] <extrowerk> but no private homes anymore.
[18:46:47] <Not> [haikuports/haikuports] korli c1926c8 - libsdl2: provide 0.8.0 for lib:libsdl2.
[18:46:48] <Not> [haikuports/haikuports] korli f0604f3 - sdl2_image: requires lib:libsdl2 0.8.0.
[18:47:22] <extrowerk> actually the private homes was just a play with the tax-regulations, i think you know that.
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[18:50:32] <Barrett> extrowerk, in Italy smoking in public places is forbidden since 90s
[18:50:43] <Barrett> I was a child when that happened
[18:50:54] <Barrett> and that was good :)
[18:51:54] <extrowerk> God is it, i'am sure, but there was a business opportunity and some people tried to make money with it.
[18:52:23] <extrowerk> and it booseted the handcrafted beer business to
[18:52:29] <Barrett> seems like you could have get strange situations in those "homes"
[18:52:42] <extrowerk> i think it was a good time for the small compoanies.
[18:52:55] <Barrett> reminds me of USA prohibitionism
[18:52:59] <extrowerk> now you can get handcrafted beer everywhere.
[18:53:14] <extrowerk> but the hungarian beer is nothing special, i think.
[18:53:23] <extrowerk> i better drink wine in hungary
[18:54:31] <Not> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-0/±0] https://git.io/fpo1c
[18:54:32] <Not> [haikuports/haikuports] arnavbhatt288 12757e9 - Haiku-On: initial recipe. (#3425)
[18:55:09] <extrowerk> Barrett:no these "homes" were actually pubs, but the the tap-outlets were rotated with 180 degree ,so you was able to tap your beer for yourself.
[18:55:13] <extrowerk> it was nice
[18:55:29] <extrowerk> i actually used to lear to tap in one of this "home"
[18:56:07] <extrowerk> it was just a simple bar, old newspaper decorated the walls, and there was a piano, and 2 guys used to play 20's music on them.
[18:56:10] <Barrett> there are places like that also here, are called clubs or something like that, but you still have people that serve you, but you need to sign in for a card to access the place
[18:56:10] <extrowerk> it wa snice.
[18:56:47] <extrowerk> no card was requitred. it was just because the tax regulations.
[18:56:53] <Barrett> usually you can have that card for 2 euros before entering
[18:57:07] <Barrett> and lasts 1 year
[18:57:14] <extrowerk> you pays not for the alcohol, but fo the using the space"
[18:57:16] <extrowerk> strange
[18:57:23] <extrowerk> but it was interesting for me.
[18:57:36] <Barrett> yeah
[18:58:15] <extrowerk> there were no card, one could just walk in, pay the day fee ,and trink
[18:59:03] <extrowerk> today evcerything changed and as i live in germany i cannot explain how it looks like nowadays, as i'm also not sure.
[18:59:10] <extrowerk> sorry about it.
[18:59:21] <extrowerk> but if you plan to visit hungary, just ask me.
[19:00:15] <extrowerk> i bought a flat here, and planning to go back annd live there, so if you would viist Budapest you can camp at my falt
[19:00:18] <extrowerk> flat
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[19:01:02] <extrowerk> have to say: the falt is not even built, so i cannot accept visitors right now.
[19:01:28] <extrowerk> but after may 2019 it should be ready.
[19:02:08] <Barrett> someday why not :)
[19:03:03] <Barrett> unless this is an excuse to trick me getting at a BeGeistert
[19:03:04] <Barrett> lol
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[19:08:27] <extrowerk> BeGesitert 2023 at Hungary?
[19:08:32] <extrowerk> Yep, why not.
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[19:10:37] <Barrett> don't count me in lol
[19:11:59] <extrowerk> nah, you can always have a room at my flat.
[19:13:15] <extrowerk> i'm currently at germany in stuttgart area, if you have plant to visit this region, just let me know., Also if i go back to hungary you are very welcomed to stay at my place.
[19:15:29] * brobostigon lived just north of hamburg for about 10 years, when he was a younger man.
[19:18:08] <Barrett> extrowerk, thank you ;) the same for you in Italy
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[19:20:07] <Barrett> the black forest seems like a place where I could be comfortable
[19:20:16] <Hubertus> Hi ,i have just boot haiku on my mac
[19:20:35] <Hubertus> And i cant connect with wifi
[19:20:46] <Hubertus> Anch chage brithness
[19:22:06] <Hubertus> I just downald iso filw from haiku page, and with etcher i amde bootlabe usb
[19:23:52] <extrowerk> Barrett: i live 1 stops away from black forrest.
[19:23:54] <brobostigon> in the network preferences, does you wifi device show up, and can scan for networks?
[19:24:12] <extrowerk> actually the next city is already a part of that.
[19:24:12] <Hubertus> No
[19:24:31] <Barrett> Hubertus, depending on the card you may need to install wifi firmwares
[19:24:51] <Hubertus> How it can be dobe
[19:24:52] <DHowett> which may be difficult without a network
[19:24:59] <extrowerk> Barrett: so technically i live 5 mins away from the black forrest
[19:25:10] <extrowerk> i do my camping there :)
[19:25:14] <brobostigon> however you can downlaod them on another system, and copy them into haiku.
[19:25:23] <Barrett> extrowerk, cool can I come here with a Roman vest and claim the limes?
[19:25:35] <Barrett> DHowett, he can download it from another machine
[19:25:43] <extrowerk> absolutely. at least you can try :)
[19:25:49] <Barrett> extrowerk, LoL
[19:25:51] <extrowerk> i have nothing against it.
[19:26:12] <Barrett> Hubertus, https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/workshop-wlan.html
[19:26:23] <extrowerk> just tell me, what dou you like to drink as i have in default no alcohol at home, just tee
[19:26:50] <Barrett> I recently switched from coffee to green tea
[19:26:57] <Barrett> one of the best choices of my life
[19:27:09] <brobostigon> https://www.haiku-os.org/files/download-data-for-wlan-firmwares.bat
[19:27:38] <Barrett> I literally drink 1-2 coffees a month
[19:27:56] <extrowerk> Barrett: check "Weil der Stadt" in the maps. Thats's the border of the black forrest. I live around 5 km away from that city.
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[19:28:26] <extrowerk> the stuttgart airport is around 40 mins.
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[19:31:10] <extrowerk> you maybe need to know: it is absolutely not-allowed tocam at the blac forrest, just at declared campling places. i don't care about it, i sleep in the middle of the forrest:)
[19:31:26] <extrowerk> *camp
[19:32:37] <Barrett> but I can still claim the ownership of that place, right? :)
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[19:35:28] <extrowerk> Barrett: you will have to have a long discussion about the ownership with the regierungspaesidium, but that's not my deal....
[19:36:20] <extrowerk> Regierungspraesidium
[19:39:30] <Barrett> Hubertus, you had any luck with firmwares?
[19:41:19] <Barrett> Hubertus, also you may want to tell us your card name
[19:43:34] <Hubertus> I will tell you
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[19:46:59] <Hubertus> Airport extreme
[19:47:16] <extrowerk> That's helpful.
[19:47:23] <Barrett> Hubertus, do listpci from Terminal
[19:47:33] <extrowerk> No, actually not.
[19:48:20] <extrowerk> Apple released plenty hw under own name, thus sadly this is not enough info.
[19:48:36] <extrowerk> we do neeed the real hw id.
[19:49:10] <Barrett> I don't understand why we don't rename listpci to lspci like linux, but well, whatever
[19:49:38] <PulkoMandy> it's listdev :)
[19:49:42] <extrowerk> because linux != standard maybe, i think.
[19:49:50] <Barrett> cool, even more confusing
[19:49:51] <PulkoMandy> and, because in principle you could install pciutils if you want lspci
[19:50:01] <PulkoMandy> why would we steal someone else's command name?
[19:50:08] <Barrett> then install pciutils by default
[19:50:22] <PulkoMandy> why? we have listdev and it's better
[19:50:30] <Barrett> 'mkay
[19:50:38] <PulkoMandy> (it shows both PCI IDs and text descriptiosn by default, which IIRC lspci can't even do)
[19:50:46] <PulkoMandy> or maybe they fixed that since then
[19:51:12] <extrowerk> I like listdev.
[19:51:18] <PulkoMandy> they did fix it
[19:51:20] <PulkoMandy> lspci -nn
[19:51:41] <PulkoMandy> (yay for non-getopt-compliant use of the same letter multiple time)
[19:53:27] <Barrett> alias listdev lspci -nn
[19:54:28] <PulkoMandy> why bother now? we have listdev and it works
[19:54:38] <PulkoMandy> you can alias lspci listdev if that makes you happy :)
[19:58:29] <mmu_man> yes there's not reason to fake a linux command, that's not even POSIX standard stuff, and specially if the arguments are different
[19:59:26] <mmu_man> we could have something to warn people trying to run lspci of what we have
[19:59:37] <mmu_man> like the thing telling which package to install to get commands
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[20:00:40] <mrnhmath> hey, does haiku have a working cairo port?
[20:01:15] <Barrett> because I'm for compat, but well I will not care so much really
[20:01:21] <mmu_man> I think yes
[20:01:26] <mmu_man> at least we made one for Firefox
[20:01:35] <mmu_man> before they ditched Cairo for something else
[20:02:02] <mrnhmath> skia
[20:05:14] <Hubertus> I cant use this command
[20:06:24] <mrnhmath> want to make sure it has a cairo port so i can experiment with porting pale moon
[20:08:00] <Barrett> Hubertus, listdev sorry
[20:08:11] <Barrett> listpci was once
[20:09:40] <leorize> mrnhmath: you'd be more concerned with a working gtk port...
[20:10:56] <mmu_man> indeed
[20:11:07] <mmu_man> cairo seems to be used by libreoffice and scribus
[20:11:11] <mmu_man> which works AFAIK
[20:11:20] <mmu_man> grep cairo */*/*.recipe
[20:11:22] <mmu_man> in haikuports
[20:14:47] <mrnhmath> leorize: i would like to not mess with any linuxisms
[20:15:22] <leorize> gtk is not linuxisms, more of *nixisms
[20:15:40] <mmu_man> well it originated from linux
[20:15:54] <mrnhmath> gtk2 indeed is *nixisms
[20:16:12] <mmu_man> anyway
[20:23:19] <Hubertus> Vendor 8060:intel corp
[20:23:56] <Hubertus> Device:82540EM Gigabit Eterhent cotroller
[20:26:47] <Hubertus> It was under etherbet cotroller in console output Barret
[20:26:53] <DHowett> that's definitely your .. ethernet controller
[20:28:14] <Hubertus> I check on virutal machine
[20:28:22] <Hubertus> Haiku
[20:28:35] <Hubertus> So what now
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[20:38:14] <extrowerk> Hubertus is akind of hungarian alcohol.
[20:38:30] <extrowerk> afaik
[20:42:51] <Hubertus> It also polsih prime hunter
[20:43:56] <Hubertus> So what with this boot
[20:43:58] <Hubertus> Man
[20:44:28] <Hubertus> Can anyonw know somthing about this cool system
[20:53:38] *** Lelldorin1 <Lelldorin1!~lelldorin@x4d0a49dc.dyn.telefonica.de> has joined #haiku
[20:54:17] <Lelldorin1> hi all
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[21:02:23] <rennj> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018EUBALK vortex86 cpu..run haiku
[21:02:36] <rennj> 86Duino EduCake
[21:02:45] <rennj> i586 foo
[21:03:14] <DHowett> oh man, that looks awesome
[21:03:26] <rennj> be cool for projects
[21:03:29] <rennj> 32bit foo
[21:03:50] <rennj> http://www.vortex86.com/
[21:04:02] <mmu_man> :)
[21:05:17] * mmu_man thinks we could probably revive the GeekPort™ with those in Haiku
[21:06:30] <rennj> http://www.vortex86.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/EX2-ALL.jpg
[21:06:35] <rennj> 2 os's at 1once
[21:07:46] <rennj> 600mhz and 400mhz isnt bad...
[21:07:48] <mmu_man> but why not SMP ? :-(
[21:08:06] <rennj> probably market their selling to
[21:08:12] <rennj> qnx,vxworks 32bit foo
[21:08:54] <rennj> linux os to monitor windows os
[21:09:00] <rennj> haha for failure, reboots
[21:12:42] <rennj> devops all in 1 place
[21:13:03] <rennj> ide side and the embedded os controller side
[21:15:18] <mmu_man> DX3 seems to be proper dual core
[21:22:19] <rennj> DDR3 size support up to 2Gbytes
[21:25:19] <rennj> http://www.dmp.com.tw/tech/os-xlinux/#download
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[21:26:27] <rennj> 2010/04/28
[21:26:45] <rennj> i want the cake!
[21:26:55] <rennj> along with the mist fpga system
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[21:31:41] <bbjimmy> Any way to get this working? https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/14722
[21:34:52] <mmu_man> I suppose it doesn't wait for playback completion and exits directly so playback stops
[21:36:07] <Vidrep_64> Until Barrett completes his rewrite of MK, it would be nice if "someone" addressed the many bugs we see now.
[21:37:58] <rennj> hah
[21:38:02] <rennj> demand much
[21:38:15] <Vidrep_64> What demand?
[21:38:41] <rennj> "someone" addressed bugs now
[21:39:23] <bbjimmy> Hi bug, how are you doing?
[21:39:30] <Vidrep_64> lol
[21:40:26] <bbjimmy> Not what you had in mind, I guess.
[21:40:36] <Vidrep_64> rennj, it isn't like we're not patient. Some of these bugs are prevalent for years
[21:43:41] <rennj> Sams Teach Yourself C++ in 24 Hours
[21:43:42] <rennj> haha
[21:43:51] <rennj> you been waiting for someone to fix them
[21:44:07] <rennj> take the bull by the horns
[21:44:30] <Vidrep_64> Why don't you just say "Patches Welcome!"
[21:46:04] <Barrett> I suggest to work on the encoders/decoders
[21:46:07] <rennj> 5th edition no less
[21:46:10] <Barrett> that's the only part it's worth
[21:46:26] <Barrett> people willing to improve the codec kit is very welcome
[21:46:59] <rennj> ffmpeg/mplayer is all i had to compile
[21:47:08] <rennj> but that linux...
[21:48:08] <rennj> vdpau vaapi is what i did not compile in 2+ almost 3 years ago
[21:48:19] <rennj> i did do x265 hevc foo..way back then
[21:55:05] <rennj> haiku im just a beos refugee
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[22:03:30] <rennj> jam do it now!
[22:03:48] <rennj> maybe ill build haiku on my haiku32bit vm
[22:04:31] <rennj> is haiku the desert island distro?
[22:07:27] <Barrett> not sure what you mean
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[22:09:07] <Not> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/fpo5u
[22:09:09] <Not> [haikuports/haikuports] korli 145a6a3 - libsdl2: bump revision.
[22:09:32] <rennj> stuck on the desert island...dont need the cloud
[22:09:49] <rennj> comes with the everything but the kitchen sink
[22:09:59] <DHowett> it would perhaps be nice to have a cloud on a desert island: get out of the sun, perhaps have some potable water
[22:10:01] <rennj> slackware is desert island distro
[22:10:08] <rennj> compilers and all
[22:10:13] <rennj> kernel headers
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[22:10:37] <Not> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-3/±0] https://git.io/fpo5V
[22:10:38] <Not> [haikuports/haikuports] enzo1982 c4617ba - fre:ac: bump to 1.1~alpha20181201 (#3430)
[22:10:49] <rennj> course the source is so big that separate media now
[22:11:13] <Not> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±0] https://git.io/fpo5r
[22:11:14] <Not> [haikuports/haikuports] enzo1982 bf2fbde - smooth: bump to 0.8.74.0~pre5 (#3428)
[22:11:41] <Not> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+1/-1/±0] https://git.io/fpo5o
[22:11:43] <Not> [haikuports/haikuports] enzo1982 0fb5997 - BoCA: bump to 1.0~alpha20181201 (#3429)
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[22:29:23] <Not> [haikuports/haikuports] korli pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/fpods
[22:29:25] <Not> [haikuports/haikuports] korli e19b532 - sdl2_image: bump revision.
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[22:40:38] <DHowett> it looks like WSL now supports extended attributes . . . i wonder if that improves its compatibility as a haiku build system
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[23:02:40] <neplevitan> hey, how far is work gone on direct rendering?
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   December 1, 2018  
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